Tell Me Something You Don't Know
A podcast where we explore curiosities without credentials. Presented to you by your factually adjacent hosts: Maddie & Sarah
Tell Me Something You Don't Know
600 Lashes and Barefoot in the Snow
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Welcome to Tell Me Something You Don't Know, where we explore curiosities without credentials. We're your factually adjacent hosts, Maddie and Sarah. Every week we exchange random topics with just enough research to keep things interesting and slightly accurate. So lower your bars and let's learn something you never knew you wanted to know.
Oh, William climbed into bed last night and he's different child altogether. Oh, who did I say? Sullivan. Oh. Your story is changing quickly. It's got lots of holes. You said you were in pain and I just wanted to relate. But yeah, no, William climbed into bed last night, and usually like Matt's the cuddle guy. Like they hardly ever come and cuddle with me because I'm mostly just like, I'm gonna sleep on my side no matter what. So get out of here. Whereas Matt will like lay to make sure that they're comfortable. Whereas I'm like, I need to be comfortable. So you accommodate me. Yeah, William climbed in and was like came in and was so cuddly and cute.
SPEAKER_00So I was like, fine, I will accommodate you. And as a result, I woke up and have a really sore neck.
SPEAKER_01Oh, crazy. We're experiencing it together. I don't have a cute reason for this to be happening. I have no reason really, other than like, I guess I slept on it weird, but it's I'm in so much pain that I've had a hot bath, I had mom go out and get me a heating pad. I'm I just can't, nothing makes me comfortable except for I ran a super hot bath and submerged myself in that. And there was instant relief. Similar to, if you recall when I had gallstones, the only way that I could survive an attack is like running a hot bath, even if it was in the middle of the night.
SPEAKER_00So I was just gonna say that because I'm like, that sounds exactly like when you were uh debilitated with uh gallstones.
SPEAKER_01Good times. Okay, so you're like same level, same vibes. Yeah, pretty much. And like as soon as I slip into the heat, it's like I could I could be dancing in there, I could be whipping my whole head all around. There's no pain, but I can't very well handle it. Can't live in a bathtub. Welcome to Tell Me Something You Don't Know, where we explore curiosities without credentials. We're your factually adjacent hosts, Maddie and Sarah. Every week we exchange random topics with just enough research to keep things interesting and slightly accurate. So lower your bars and let's learn something you never knew you wanted to know. Anyway, how uh was your week? Good. I started a new job. Yay! Congratulations. Yeah, thank you. I'm very excited. I'm like obsessed. I'm like, okay, so as I've mentioned, I feel like before, as I've listened, re-listened to our podcasts, I I feel like I'm a good candidate to join a cult. Like it doesn't take much for me to be like get bought in to like a group. If if everybody really loves what they're doing, and like it's just it doesn't take much. So I get bought in very, very quick. And so I'm obsessed with my new job. I'm very excited. So well, that's great. I hope it continues to like you know be that meet expectations. I know. Yeah. So in listening to our podcasts, one of the reasons I absolutely hate myself this week, I say literally way too much. Like I was so disgusted with myself. I'm like, there is no reason to use that word as much as you do. Okay, but I do that too. So it's extra unfortunate for listeners because it's like double time. My gosh. So I'm gonna try. I feel like that is an easy one to adjust. I feel like like is impossible. There's no way I'm gonna adjust my behavior for that. So I'm not even setting that expectation for myself because I will fail, but I think I can accomplish not saying literally every three words. All right, let's take this challenge on together. Another thing I'd like to stop doing is saying 100%. I do that often. Same. And I say that I notice I just say it in conversation too much. The other thing that I say a lot is that's wild. Yes, I'm like, we same. I say it so often. Does even with work, I'll be like, that's wild. I'm like, Sarah, you're a smart professional person. Yeah, you don't that's wild, does not, it's not how you represent yourself in a conversation. Yes, exactly. I I was gonna say a hundred percent. Um I literally say it a hundred percent of the time. I also have started, because I'm like, oh, you know, in our little kind of back and forth that we do at the beginning, I when she asks me what's like what's new, I'm gonna have these fun little, but my the notes that I take don't make sense. So I'm gonna read them to you. Oh, perfect. One is just the word orangutan. So in my brain, I'm like, I'll know what that means, and I'm gonna talk about it. I have no idea. I thought you were gonna be like, I just like the way this word sounds in my mouth, but you had I had an anecdote of some kind. That's too bad because now I really want to know what a what a We'll never know. Oh, I would be so oh my god, I would be so bad at being a mermaid. What I feel like with these statements, I need to understand a little bit of a. Okay, so this one I do actually remember.
SPEAKER_00Me and William were in Arizona, as I had mentioned in a previous episode, and all went well. I found accommodations, he had a great time, didn't let him down.
SPEAKER_01So ass slaps all around for me, you know? But one of the things we went to do was go to this, was it the zoo or the aquarium? It would make sense. It would be a weird because it's a mermaid. I think I was gonna say that, but this is ridiculous. It was amazing, first of all. The nice thing about Arizona is that there are so many things to do for kids. I would not suggest doing like a land on the last day because I wanted to poke my own eyes out. But so we waited in line for, I don't know, half an hour, honestly, to meet a mermaid, and William was obsessed with them. There were like probably three or four different places where you could meet a mermaid. And in my mind, I was like, we'll wait in one lineup, we'll meet the mermaid, and then like he'll be like, okay, cool, sweet. But we met like four or five different mermaids, and he was absolutely obsessed with them, like just wanted to. There was one, it looks like a massive aquarium, and she does little like heart signs and blows kisses, and William's like almost throwing elbows to be like in her line of sight, to just be, he's just mesmerized. He's like, I didn't even know that I didn't know mermaids existed, and now I do. And how do I become a merman? Basically, is his his plan. But, anyways, they have to smile non-stop, obviously. And they also they have to do small talk, but with children, which is an even another level of small talk where it's like, what's your favorite color and that kind of stuff? So I'd be so bad at being a mermaid. Yeah, no, I don't it definitely not. And then I have two more. Families are so conceptually weird. Yeah, that's it. Yep, I grew up my whole life with you and mom and dad. Like our whole life, we literally oh catch yourself now.
SPEAKER_00Don't do it, don't do it.
SPEAKER_01Our whole life we went around and experienced life together. We went to multiple countries, like we were a unit. That's what we did. And then all of a sudden, I'm in a different family now. I picked another person who I'm like, okay, let's sleep in the same bed and room every single night. You have first of all, the fact that you need to sleep for eight hours is very weird when you think about it. Another thing that's odd. You just lay there silent with your eyes closed and your body is just sort of like shut down for eight hours. Yep. Very strange. The fact that you do it next to someone else who you didn't like grow up with, like who wasn't part of my tribe.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And now I'm just all of a sudden in the house with somebody else. I mean, obviously, I love him very much. I'm making it sound very like there's a problem. There's not. I just conceptually No, yes, very fair. So, and then now I'm have I've had kids, and then in my brain, I'm like, one day they're gonna leave. We have this family, we're going through the trenches together, and then one day they're gonna be like, Okay, we're gonna pick a different family. Bye. Yeah, isn't that it? It's so weird. That is pretty bizarre when you when you break it down like that.
SPEAKER_00So sorry.
SPEAKER_01This is not the tell you something I don't know. These are the notes that I take to be like, these will be fun little anecdotes, but they're just making me sound very strange and unhinged. No, I really I think many people can probably relate to these thoughts. And then my last statement, it our apes are weird. So I don't know what that was about. They intimidate me because I think they're well, they're incredibly strong, but they're also super intelligent. And I'm yeah, I'm like, what do you what do you know? There's so much behind their eyes.
SPEAKER_00Also, just really quickly, I'm dragging this out so long. So hopefully people enjoy the back and forth because I'm really leaning in this episode. We haven't even gotten to our topics.
SPEAKER_02It's all good.
SPEAKER_00Um, but the last time me and you spoke, you were telling us about dinosaurs and how sharks and all this stuff.
SPEAKER_01And I I'm very nervous about the fact that all of the animals, aside from bees, I guess, from fur when dinosaurs existed, that are now still with us, are all swimming things. So that means that the extinction event is water, right? Yeah, yeah, probably. That sucks so bad.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I guess, but I guess the alternative is like probably fire, and that doesn't sound good either.
SPEAKER_01No, no, yeah, I would take water for sure. I mean, I love, I love, I love water. I if I could be a mermaid, I would be the best. Yeah, you'd be the best mermaid. I know, I really would. We are so different. Uh yeah, we are again another weird thing about families. Okay, so I don't have any of those fun little tidbits, but I did have one thing that I have to tell you about because it makes the highlight. No, it's so good. There are neighborhood Canadian geese that are hanging out. Terrorists. Oh no, they're so cute. Okay. Are they? Yes. So there's this condo that's like lower than mine that's that's kind of far out in front of my building. So when I'm out on my balcony or like looking out the window, I can see the the roof of this building. And there's kind of like a mossy green like vegetation on top. And I realized mom and I were looking out, uh, our mother is visiting us, me in Toronto. Just I realized you know, context. We notice that one of the geese is laying an egg in the corner because she's just sat there like all day, every day, all night long. And then the dad doing mom's stuff, doing mom's stuff. Doing mom's stuff, and the dad has this like walking routine. I can tell you exactly where he is based on like his honking, the sounds that are obnoxious that he makes. And he goes and hangs out at this railing, then he walks the perimeter of the building, then he circles back and comes to the perimeter, then he goes checks on on his checks on his wife, and then he like flutters about, and then throughout the day, the mom bird is just like quack in a well, they don't quack, but you know, make it sounds honking, yeah. Yes, and then the dad is like somewhere on a different building, just like answering back, and he he comes, he like flies back to where she is, and this happens every day. So she's just calling him home, being like, I know you like to adventure, but like if I'm gonna sit on this egg 20 minutes, if I get to adventure, you don't get to adventure farm. Okay. Get your butt back here, and it's hilarious. Like it's wild. No, it's not wild. In fairness, that is wild because it is a wild animal. It is out, it's out in the wild. I just love it because I'll be in a meeting and I can I'll hear them honking back and forth, and I'm like, oh my god, you need to get back to your wife. Like, please get back there. Okay, you should go first because I technically went first last time, even though it was an older recording. So if you want, also while interesting that that recording was from 2024. I know, right? Yeah, I was the second one. I had to cut out like tiny little bits because I'm like, that's not even slightly relevant and would probably be confusing to the audience, but for the most part, it worked. Even you mentioning mom coming to help look after the kids. I'm like, well, she is. It's happening right now. Yeah, that is where we just time warped. Yeah, exactly. Okay, I will go first. I'm going to set the scene. I'm ready. I need you to be more excited. I'm about it. Super, super ready. I've never been more ready for anything. Uh good. Okay, so we are in Russia. Okay. We're in the mountains, and there is this small town. Also, it's 1959. So it's a it's a ways back, and we're in this little town, and it's the last town before this very significant hike and this very significant trail. And so we have 10 hikers and they're extremely experienced. It's the middle of winter, to my understanding. So it is Russia in the mountains in the freezing cold. Okay. But these hikers are very experienced. They are specifically working towards getting their grade three hiking certification, which is the highest level at the time. So they know what they're doing. They're students, they're recent graduates, and hiking is just basically what they do as a group and enjoy. So this isn't something where they're like, hey, you know, it'd be fun. Let's go climb a mountain, but they're not skilled at it. They've plotted out this path. They have touch points where they're going to contact people to make sure that they're safe, all of those things. Okay, got it. On the morning, I believe, or at some point in the day, in the day, night, or week. No, I'm pretty sure it's in 24 hours. Does irrelevant is irrelevant. One of them, so there's 10 hikers, but one of them starts to feel sick. So he's like, you know, probably not a great idea. It's obviously very intense. Hiking and camping. There's camping throughout as well to make the trek. And it's up this mountain called the Ural Mountains. And so he's like, I'm gonna play it safe. I'm gonna hang back. So at the end of this whole experience, he will be the only survivor. Oh no. Bum bum bum. Cool but sad. Not great for them. Yeah, that's true. So, I mean, listen, we're they're not beginners, and uh they're they've already trained in this exact environment. Nothing is new here. And so we're now with nine. The plan is they leave kind of towards the end of January, and it's a multi-day ski trek, so they're also skiing as well. And the goal is to summit Otoritan. One of the key people in this, and if you ever want to like do a deeper dive or like listen to information about it, it's called the Dietlove Pass, is what this whole story is called. So they kept diaries, they took photos, the last entries were very normal, joking, routine, no panic. And then he says he's going to send a telegram and is expected to return in early February, but no message is received. After 10 days, families start to be like, listen, you know, we were expecting them back. We need to send out a search party. This is not normal. They normally would have completed it by now and definitely would have sent us a telegram. We're worried. So basically, a search group is formed of volunteers or students. Later military joins in. And yeah, they are like, hey, let's see what we can find. They hopefully nothing went wrong, but they should have been back by now. How many days exactly from when? Like I think 10 days. My notes say after dash 10 days, arrow pointing concern. Okay. Just laying out your exact note taking. Perfect.
SPEAKER_00I have terrible notes. It's so, I mean, as I started this off with, it's just amazed.
SPEAKER_01Well, that's good to know. That is like, yeah, I feel like I'd be a good amount of time. That's definitely a good amount of time. Yeah. It's more than a week. And I mean, in the mountains in the winter, you don't need, I mean, you need hours for hypothermia and stuff to set in. So it's not, it's not great. Yeah. So they basically come upon and see a tent, and it's not anywhere that makes sense. It's like on this very exposed slope, not near any trees, which leads them, it's not near any of the designated or like assigned or planned checkpoints. It's kind of in the middle, I think, between they hit checkpoint one and then they never made it to checkpoint two. So it would appear that something, the plans changed and they had to set up camp in this less than ideal area. And there is forest nearby, which would have been a safer option, but they weirdly kind of chose this really exposed slope. So like maybe there's a storm and they can't see the forest, but like it's strange, right? That is strange. So they get closer and they see that the tent is partially collapsed. And one of the weirdest parts is that it's cut open, but from the inside. Oh. The zippers worked like nothing was wrong with the zippers. And apparently, in the way that this was cut, they could tell that it was cut from the inside to get out. The plot thickens. It does. It does. So, like, why aren't they using the door? Why is it in the middle of nowhere? Very strange. Yeah. Is it, and just maybe you're getting to this point. Is the probably not true? Maybe you're getting to this point, or you're gonna be like, uh, I don't know, and don't ask me. Um is the size of the tent an indicator? Is it how many people? Ten, you said nine. Nine. So, like, is the tent housing nine people? Is this a tent for one person, two people? Is that no? I think it's like the one tent that was for all of them. Okay, got it, got it. Okay, yeah. So then they notice that there are footprints and they are leading to a forest and they're calm footprints. Like they're not, they clearly weren't running, they were walking, they also are barefoot and socked. So they don't have the proper clothes on, and they don't have shoes. So they have from the rescuer standpoint, or these volunteers, they're like, they're on the side of a mountain where you wouldn't like where experienced hikers in this situation would not typically set up camp. They cut themselves out of the tent from the inside, even though the doors were operational. And now there are these footprints that are barefoot and just calmly walking away, which is like, okay, well, this is eerie. Super eerie. Ooh. And like, why are you leaving? You know what I mean? Like, is it just that are is it so cold? Because I've also seen, so I went through this phase where I was like really into Mount Everest. Yeah. So honestly, I find it so interesting. Actually, fun fact: my grade three teacher died on Everest. Oh my god. It's not fun. I did not set that up properly. Not fun at all. It's very sad, but an interesting fact. Nonetheless. And everything about Everest just interests me. So I went through a phase where I just consumed as many Everest documentaries as I possibly could. But one of the things that they say is when you're hypoxic and also when you're hypothermic, you start to get hot. So, like, and you're disoriented as well. So people will start literally undressing in insanely cold weather and they start ripping their clothes off because they think they think that they are hot, which I'm kind of like, okay, if we're thinking about extinction events, that sounds not terrible. Like if we're so cold and then all of a sudden we're like, oof, I'm too hot. And then you just croak. Like, yeah, true. Anyways, my brain's all over the place. So everything is very strange. So they follow the footsteps and they come upon two of the bodies. And so they're under a cedar tree, and there's like a small, what looks like would have been a fire. They also look around and like there's tree branches that are broken, which kind of suggests that they were like trying to climb the trees. So, like, were they running away from something? Or what on earth? They have burned hands. So, as far as injuries, and the injuries get increasingly more interesting. This group of people are are hypothermic. Like, they look like they were hypothermic. They have burnt hands, like trying to warm themselves up. One of them I'm pretty sure was like naked or like very under-dressed. Yeah. So it's like, were they trying to see something? Were they trying to locate the tent? Were they trying to run away from something? Like, why were they trying to climb these trees? It doesn't make any sense. And then group two is between the trees and the tent. So there's three hikers and they're in a perfect line. And it looks like they were trying to get either that they were trying to get back to the tent, and there's no major trauma for them. Again, it's just hypothermia. Okay. And and to clarify, because so we know that they like ripped the tent and that they weren't wearing shoes. But you said, so like in my head, I'm thinking like, I don't even have time to unzip the tent. Yeah, like I gotta get out. But you said the step, the the footprint suggested not. We're calm. Yes. Everything is counter to it, to itself. Okay, got it. And like they left, so why were they going back? Like, did they have to get out fast and then right? And the and the tent was partially collapsed. So, like, did an animal maybe attack? And they were just like, get out of the tent as fast as possible, and then like went down towards the trees, and we're like, Well, we have to wait for that crazy Russian cyber tooth. Wait, no, that's not that's too far back. An animal of some kind, a bear probably makes more sense. Yes. And they're like, get out of the tent. We can't even use the door. They hang out in the trees for a bit. They're like, look, you three go back, we'll stay here. And then it just goes terribly wrong. Oh. So that accounts for a few of our hikers. Now, the group three. So this is four hikers, and they're found later. Once I think kind of snow had calmed down, or I'm making that part up completely. I don't know why they were found later. Like the snow melted, and I don't know that that's true because it also says they were buried under the snow. So I think they were just found later because they just weren't that obvious. Let me not lie about things. Let me just make fill this gap myself. Just making it up. Okay. So it looked like they had hand built a snow shelter or a den. It shows that there was like planning and some survival attempt. Some did have extra clothing. So they were like, did they maybe take them from the others that didn't have clothing on to try and stay warm? But the injuries are like the strangest part. So they have crushed ribs, skull fractures, and there's severe internal trauma. However, there's no external wounds at all. What? So they were. So like no bruises. Yeah, it's a it says it was described like a car crash force, but there were no bruises or cuts or anything like that. That's how is that possible? We don't know. Also, this is more disturbing. So like just buckle up. But I think this is more so about okay, let's do a little callback. One of the ways that you brought up for like um burial was the sky burial, which I was like, absolutely not, and then was like, actually, you know what? That sounds kind of respectful, where they um are left on the mountain and then the animals like go to town. Yeah, so one is missing a tongue and some soft tissue, so maybe an eyeball or two. But you would think that that would probably be, you know. But a tongue is so specific. It's just is that not strange? Very weird, and it makes me feel like it's not an animal because it's just inside your mouth. Why is that the only thing? Just one person as well. Like, I feel like if you're finding people, yeah, then like don't you call your your friend? If an animal is like, hey, we got some tongues over here, we got a buffet, like get amongst it, friends. That's that's that's so weird. Okay, yes, okay, and then even a stranger. There's radiation found on some of the clothing. What the shape, and this is only the ravine group. So this is only the group that was in the ravine. All the other ones are sort of like, okay, it seems like it's strange that they were out of the tent, but like Yeah, like they died from being cold, likely. So it's a little less like the autopsy would be a little less called autopsy. When they like try and figure out what happened to you, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So and with that, so there was also just additional weirdness, I guess. Like when they were investigating this, there were lights reported in the sky, and it just was unconclusive. So the case was closed with unknown compelling force. Oh god. So bizarre. I know. So, not one event, not one location. They moved, they split up, there were obviously decisions made. It didn't seem like they died all at once. It unfolded over time, but like what on earth happened? So let's take a look at a couple of the theories. Theory number one, avalanche. So panic, cut the tent, get out as fast as you can. Right. But like there's little evidence of an avalanche and there were footsteps. So, like, if there was an avalanche, there wouldn't be footprints and it wouldn't be calm either. Like, if there was an avalanche, you wouldn't even see a tent. That's silly. Yeah, true, true, true. Stupid theory, that is hypothermia, as as we mentioned. So, like confusion and undressing, but it doesn't explain leaving the tent, it doesn't explain the radium, it doesn't explain uh stuff missing and the injuries and all this stuff. Right. So one of the biggest, you know, fun theories is that they were doing military weapons testing and using like radiation and different military weapons to, and and they were just somewhere where they should not have been. And it was sort of like across, you know, like they were they were like, oh shoot, there's those people down there, and now we messed them right up. So I'm so sorry. This is I'm realizing right now. Not a very satisfying story because truly it is completely unknown, and the case was closed to unknown compelling force. Wait a second. So that is it. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Okay, well, why just give me, I'm excuse me. That's where we're that's where we're hang on a second. There was a survivor, wasn't there? Yeah, but he didn't, he wasn't there. He was he was just at the beginning. Like he was just at the hey, we're gonna like take off up this mountain. And he was like, ugh, I don't feel good. Maybe he did it. Just kidding. Let's reopen this case, please. Oh my god. We have questions. Isn't that wild? So it is it is I didn't tell this to be mean, although it does feel that way because it is not a very satisfying conclusion, which I think is reminds me why I don't love like cold cases or anything where there's not a close. So I don't know why I chose this topic. However, it is just one of those topics that it is well known-ish. I remember hearing about it like forever ago.
SPEAKER_02Really?
SPEAKER_01Um, yeah, and it's just one of those ones, it's like, what on earth happened? Because there's so many random pieces about it. Yeah, that is fascinating. That that would drive me crazy though. Like it makes sense to me that people make a big chunk of their life about like investigating things because I feel like in the same way that you're susceptible to being in a cult. I think things would just be like you'd you would just and and every time that you got a little bit closer, or even you you just even discovered something that nobody else had yet. I feel like it would just be so addicting, and you'd be like, I have to keep going, I have to keep going. But what would be aggravating is not being involved at the time. Like maybe decades later, people were like, Well, did you check this? Did they check this? Did they do that? And yeah, they didn't. And there's also now no way for to like ask someone and be like, hey, uh, remember that? Although, like, but more things do happen, like even within, and I mean that even happens not even with time being a factor. Like, you can have a specific crime scene that goes terribly wrong and everything is done incorrectly. Right. And it's like, well, did you do this? Did you do that? No, no, no. Like, yeah, but yeah, obviously the time piece adds an additional layer. But that's also there's so many online sleuths now that j that do this like as a hobby. I mean, someone get on this one. Yeah, come on. That's how come no one solved it? We're reigniting it. Wow. I I did I loved that great format, by the way. Wonderful. You had me gripped the whole time.
SPEAKER_00Dang, I gotta pick one that has an ending.
SPEAKER_01Well, this was good. This is like a good prelude to yes, like yes, yes, yes. And now I'll know in the future like, are you gonna leave me hanging or are you gonna include this? Yeah, you might. Yeah, I might just be like, you know what?
SPEAKER_00I gotcha again.
SPEAKER_01No, no, I really liked it. It was good, it was good. It was good, amazing. Okay, well, moving right into mine. Oh my gosh, I'm so excited. Have you seen? I think I know that you have, but maybe just uh for the audience. Have you seen Mulan? Yes. Okay, absolutely. I have. It's honestly one of my favorite Disney movies. Me too. I love everything about that Disney movie. Today I'm gonna talk to you about. Is there a real life Mulan? Well, there I'm gonna talk to you today about three different women who disguise themselves as men to fight in war. Oh my god, this is a much better topic than mine. And I am so excited. It is not much better, but I was like, I was just randomly thinking about Mulan the other day and how much I love it, and I'm like, is that a true story? That I looked it up and then I was like, and tell me something you don't know content, ready to go. In case you were wondering, the story of Mulan is based on a poem, and it is not entirely certain, a very, very, very old poem, and it's not entirely certain if it is derived from, in fact, like a true story, like a real character or a real person, but it is based upon a real poem that existed. So moving into three very real women who did disguise themselves as men. So we're gonna start with a Deborah Sampson. Uh Deb. Deb, yeah, right out right out of the USA. So during the American Revolutionary War, she disguised herself as a man named Robert Shirtleff. What? Sorry, one second. What was the last name? Shirtleff. Not Shirtlef. No T. Okay. Shirtleff. Yeah, exactly. I have why wouldn't you go with Smith? Like, it is such an obscure. I've never heard that last name in my life. I know.
SPEAKER_00Although I've never heard every last name, so let me not be judgmental.
SPEAKER_01Well, it's it's but it is a fair question because I mean A, you're gonna want to go with something common. B, if you're wanting to be a little creepy. You don't want double takes. You don't want someone to be like, oh yeah, so shirt left. Like I would be like, wait, shirtlef? And then that would, I'd be like, I have questions for you, Mr. Shirtlef. What is your origin story, sir? It's so true. Although I'm sure when you're just like bringing peace signing people up for war, you're like, yeah, sure. You'll do no doubt, no doubt. Um but yes, so she did so to enlist in the Continental Army in 1781. I also, doing this research, discovered just how little I know about American history. Well, well, I would probably argue that the most uh history I know is American. We agreed. Just like wars. We are Canadians, yeah, which means we know more about that than we do. So accurate. I say this to all of my American colleagues all the time. They're like, oh, you heard about that? I'm like, listen, yeah, um, everybody up here is just watching you guys. So yes, I did not know, like, there's just a lot of wars mentioned, and I'm like, yeah, never heard of that in my entire life. So well, that's another Canadian thing. So we don't do that. We go and like help other people, but we don't we don't like there's no civil, not not yet, but like you know, yes, we haven't really that's not part of our history, so it is very interesting what like what the US and other places have gone through in history in comparison to like us, because it is so different and it shapes a different society when that's part of your like what you had to do for what you believed in, anyways. Not to get too serious, but yeah, yeah. So she was in uniform for 17 months before her sex was discovered in 1783, when she like at that time she had required medical treatment um after contracting a fever, so that's when she was receiving help, and they were like, um, wait just one moment. Sorry, you have boobs. Yep, pretty much. So, but I'm gonna tell you a little bit about each woman's like a little bit about their story. Yeah, it paints the picture as to like why they did what they did. Why held her? So she was abandoned, her and her mother were abandoned at a young age by uh their her father, and because her mom was not able to provide for her and her siblings, she they were placed in households of like friends and or relatives. And this was common practice in the 18th century, New England. So one of the families that she boarded with was Jeremiah Thomas family. During this time, she was not sent to school like the Thomas children because Thomas was not a believer in the education of women. Oh yep. Um yikes. So she took it upon herself to she worked with the su sons of Thomas. So they went to school and she was able to like learn from them and they shared their schoolwork with her, which is very sweet. That's really nice of them. I mean, terrible that you're in that scenario, but like very kind. It's it's nice that like the men of Thomas or whatever this fellow's name is would be like, yeah, yeah. She can learn too if she wants. Yeah, if she wants to learn, we'll teach her a thing or two. Yes, exactly. In 1782, she joined um an army unit in Massachusetts, uh, under the name Timothy Thayer. So this is her first attempt, because I realize this is different from the robber name. So she collected a bonus as Timothy Thayer, but then failed to meet up with her company, like her unit as scheduled. So we don't know exactly why, not documented, but she was a no-show. The company commander revealed that Samson had been recognized by a local resident. So somebody like noticed her at the time that she signed her enlistment.
SPEAKER_00Like as a woman?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, it was like one second, I think, that like I know her. So that'd be Deborah. Yes. So she, because her deception was uncovered, she had to repay a portion of the bonus that she had not yet spent, but that was her only punishment, which was like kind of surprising to everybody involved because I was just gonna say that seems r reasonable. Yes, exactly. The Baptist church, however, to which she belonged, learned of her actions and did withdraw its fellowship. So this means that its members refused to associate with her. Unless, of course, she apologized and asked for f forgiveness. So instead, she was like, no thanks. And we're gonna be like, Love an instead. Love an instead woman. You know, love a every good, every good story starts with an instead person. That's right, that's right. I agree. So same year she enlists again, and this time she does it under a Robert Shirtliff. So she joins the light infantry company, is the name of it, of the Fourth Massachusetts Regiment. So this unit consisted of 50 to 60 men. It was uh lost my spot. There's probably gonna be a lot of that because, like you, my notes are disheveled.
SPEAKER_00Um I love uh our our podcast, it's hilarious, it's just funny.
SPEAKER_01We're so bad at it. Yeah, truly. So she's done this again, it's been successful. So later that same year, she participated in combat uh in New York. Sorry, sorry, did you just say combat? If I did, I didn't mean to because I did read the word combat. Gotcha, gotcha, gotcha. Good, good. Did you move it on combat? I had to I had to make sure. Yeah, nope, all good. It's a fair question to be asking me specifically. Um so yeah, she she basically was in combat with 30 of her infantrymen. During this time, she was shot in her thigh and also sustained a sword cut to her forehead. Um and her obviously her unit was just like, we need to, you need to, you need help. And she was like, she begged her fellow soldiers not to take her to the doctor for obvious concerns. And one soldier, and like this is a very specific detail, so I kind of laughed when I read it, but like, here we go. Uh, a soldier put her on his horse and took her to the hospital. So it's like, no, I can't tell you exactly why she didn't show up that one time for her previous attempt, but I can tell you that she was taken to hospital by horse fact.
SPEAKER_00Via horse.
SPEAKER_01So a doctor did treat her head wound, but she escaped the hospital before he could attend her leg. This poor woman. So it's like I just want to fight for a cause. Yes, and she removed the she removed the ball, the the bullet. It says ball here, but we're gonna bullet is what I would prefer to use. Um, bullet herself with a pen knife and a sewing needle. She's a badass. Yeah, such a badass. Parts of the wound went so deep that like she couldn't, obviously, she didn't do a very like a super effective job. And stuff's like not very clean back then. Yes, exactly. So her leg never fully healed, but she continued to serve for seven more months. She was dramatic plus. Yeah, I just don't want to include all of this. Annoying stuff. Uh imagine her listening. She's like, um, yeah, that was actually one of the hardest times of my life.
SPEAKER_00And uh well, it gave me a purpose, but yeah, nope, for sure. Annoying stuff.
SPEAKER_01So she she continued to serve, and then at I think it was 1783, yeah, she became ill and a doctor had to see her. So due to her illness, she became unconscious, which now she's not able to like pull her pull off her own badassness. So, due to the fever, the doctor Benny removed her clothes to treat her and discovered the cloth she used to bind her breasts. As if the only thing that like kept her from like forging forward was being unconscious. Yes, I know. Uh like otherwise, she's like, No, nothing will ruin this for me. Yeah, exactly. The sweet part of this story, though, is that he didn't reveal this to the army authorities, and he took her to his house where his wife, daughters, and a female nurse cared for her. Thank God there were other women there. I was like, Did he like it was so sweet, he took her, then blackmailed her and was like, I'll reveal your secret unless you marry me. And that's a very sweet. Yes, yes. Yes. So in September of 1783, following the signing of the Treaty of Paris, Dr. Benny asked Samson to deliver a note to General Patterson. She correctly assumed that it would reveal her sex. It and it does say here in other cases, women who pretended to be men to serve in the army were reprimanded, but Patterson gave her a discharge, a note with some words of advice and enough money to travel home. And then she was honorably discharged in New York by General Henry Knox. Honorably. That's a good thing, right? Yeah, yeah. Okay. That's really because like honestly, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Why, why like, yeah, yeah, yeah. You bet you bet your ass. A hundred like, what do you what do you mean? Of course, she sh like, first of all, she was not asked. No, she she was not asked at all. In fact, she was advised to stay home, and she still wanted to come and support and fight. And so, yeah, exactly. She was honorably flipping, discharged, correct. As if that's something we're like, oh, that's so sweet. It's like, no, uh, there should not have been a rule that's like, yeah, they're reprimanded if they are so uh passionate about fighting alongside other people who are wanting to fight. Like totally. It is a hundred percent. I feel oh it's got me there. It's okay. 100%. But listen, this is a hundred percent. Like, absolutely, there's no wiggle room. 100%, I agree. 99 won't cut it. But when you're learning about this stuff and you're because this is in the late 18th century, you're like, yeah, I mean a couple hundred years ago, but the more you learn about this stuff, you're like, I no, no, this is absurd for any time. It's crazy to me, anyways. Next person, Maria Queteria is her name. So she's from Brazil. She's known as the Brazilian Joan de Arc. Um, and she disguised herself as a man to join the army fighting in the Brazilian War of Independence in the 1820s. Oh, dang. Yeah. In the 1820s. Yep, whoa, okay. Closer, yeah. Wait, closer to like further away now. Oh, well, like closer to present day. Wait, what what was when was this? When did the other one fight? 17 1780. Oh my god. Yeah. I'm interesting. I yeah, I did not okay, that's blowing my mind. Oh man, my brain could not. In my mind, I'm thinking like Downton Abbey, like 1920s. Okay, yeah. Go go ahead. We are getting closer. Got it. No. I thought I was gonna call you out for something, but nope, you turned it right back around on me. So she during her time of serving, she was promoted to cadet and lieutenant and later decorated with the Imperial Order of the Cross. She has since become a legendary figure in Brazil, and she was the first woman to serve, obviously, the first woman to serve in a military unit in the country. A little bit of her story, there's not a ton on her, but against her father's will, an unmarried Maria enlisted in the Parakeet Battalion. Terrible detail to have to say. I know. An unmarried Maria. So she served in a division of the Brazilian army as a man in October 1822 until June 1823. She fought several battles against the Portuguese in Bahia, where she lived. And it was in fact her father that outed her as a woman once he discovered her betrayal. Stop it. And the betrayal was just quite simply enlisting. Yep, yep. However, honestly, though, okay, one sec. Yeah, okay. Yeah, break it down. Also, though, if I had a daughter and she wasn't allowed to go to war, I I would probably out or two. Not not be ugh that's terrible though, but not hear me out. Listen, nobody is stopping you. You go ahead. Not because I'm stopping my own self. I'm like, Sarah, shut the hell up. But like, not because I don't want her to do it's the same thing as William being like, I really want to be a police officer when I grow up. And I'm like, well, you're not gonna be. So like get over that dream, kid. Yeah, fair. Out of concern for your drive. Out of concern. Like, if I was like, the only way that I can ensure my child's safety and have her not go away to war is to out her, then like I would pause and be like, I don't want her to go to war. Like man, woman, or otherwise. Yeah, fair enough. No, it's fair enough. Bit of a control freak. So maybe that's yeah, maybe maybe you should let your children, you know, let them fly. Let them let them live. Anyways, so I mean, he doesn't sound just not great, but also I do understand a little bit if that is the angle that he had. Yeah, I mean, we don't know for sure, but because her skill in of like she was very skillful in battle, so she was allowed to continue to fight, which I feel like dang. Yeah, they were like, sit down, Papa, yeah, she's coming with us. And it would be like such a good feeling as a woman at like time to be like, oh, I could be like executed probably for doing this. Um, but instead of good that they're like, Oh my god. Those are like what daydreams are made of, where you're like really like, man, I wait, like I get out on stage and I'm such a good singer that which I'm terrible at, but like you know what I mean? Like, you know, when you're just sort of like, oh yeah, that's great. I'm very happy for her. Yes, right. Um that's kind of all there is on her, but there's an English traveler and writer named Maria Graham, and in she has a book called Journal of a Voyage to Brazil. And in her book, she says, when I said there is an English traveler and writer, I'm gonna say there was because she is right, she is not alive, probably. Correct, and she was alive during the time that Maria was. So she says Maria de Jesus is illiterate but lively, she has clear intelligence and acute perception. I think that if they educated her, she would become a notable personality.
SPEAKER_00Oh, I don't love this.
SPEAKER_01No, I know it's horrible. One observes nothing masculine in her conduct, rather, she is of gentle and friendly manners. And I was like, I no. But also the perspective of being like, if she could have been educated, she'd have a personality. It's like there was no word, like you, you know what? You you go back, you little traveler. You know Nobody wants to hear from you. This is like when people ask ridiculous questions of women in specific scenarios where it's like, why don't you ask me about the skill set and why I'm sitting at this table or why I'm in the position that I'm in, as opposed to like what dress I'm wearing, or like how nice my hair looks. Yes, exactly. A hundred percent. So uh no, not a hundred percent, but yes, a hundred percent. Um so yeah, I feel it's just interesting to hear another woman speak of another woman that way because yeah, in a book. Well, again, in not in her defense, but also a little bit in her defense, like sometimes it is just like she probably was genuinely like impressed by her and for those specific reasons, like kind of being like, Wow, I you know, I've only ever been taught that men can have these, you know, dynamic personalities, and like if someone taught her something, she would be as you know interesting as a man, which is shocking because we've only ever been told that we are not that exactly. So moving into our final last, her name is Hannah Snell from the UK. So in the 18th century, that is the most UK name, yeah. Hannah Snell. I agree. So going back, we're we're now back in the 1700s. In the 18th century, she disguised herself as a man to join the British Marines to find her missing husband. Oh, yeah, but but just wait, fighting in several battles and being wounded with her identity kept secret until she decided herself to reveal it. So yes, on her own terms. So a little backstory. Born in 1723, she was the youngest daughter of the family with eight siblings. So her father, Samuel Snell, was uh uh I don't know what this is, but a hosier and dyer. What? Like dyer is in like I die things, and hosier I don't know what this is. Oh, hose like hosiery, maybe. No, wait, that would be a weird thing for I don't know why I'm pretending that I might know. Well, you might you might work your way through you. I okay, hold on though, let me just look up what it means because now I need to know, like, right. Like hosiery is what I'm thinking of, but like what a Yeah, well, what's hosiery? I don't even know what that is. Oh, stock. Yes, yeah, yeah, stock. So that is correct. So that's what her father did. Due to Snell's grandfather's service in the military and the money that they inherited from him, her father and his second wife were wealthy enough to live comfortably and provide education to all of their children. Not just the boys. Yes, exactly. Although, despite this, she she never learned to write. And she was also referred to as the young Amazon Snell by locals because she often played soldier as a child. Yeah. So, and her parents passed away when she was 17, and she moved to London to live with her older uh sister Susanna, and she married a man named James Sums, a Dutch seaman. Okay. That laugh was super immature moment, but whatever. There it is. You you are a teenage boy. Yeah, that's right. Sorry, tell us more about the semen. Oh god, I'm going to. And uh I'm going to. And we don't like him, so even though he made me laugh real hard. So Sums often sought the company of other women. And this is her husband? Yeah. Yeah. This is her husband, who you said at the beginning, she went to war to go find that's correct. Ugh. Loyalty. Men men do not deserve women. I know, right? So, yes, she and it says here he grew to despise her. He used her patrimony to pay patrimony. Wow. That's probably like the dowry that her parents gave her, maybe. Yeah, that's a good thing. Like they gave him for marit for taking her taking her off their hands. Right, right. God wouldn't have done it. Because there's so many things in history that are not favorable. That are not great. Um, he used her patrimony to pay for his luxurious lifestyle and they fell into debt. He then abandoned her when she was pregnant with their child. What is happening? As if there is this terrible of a human. I know. I mean, there's lots of obviously people kill people, but like without doing the like murder. That's just really horrible, scummy scummy.
SPEAKER_00Oh my gosh.
SPEAKER_01And she lost that baby who she named Susanna after her sister. Um yeah, she died in infancy. Oh my this K Madison, you there's gotta be you're getting me back now because oh my word. Yes, I'm excited for her revealing herself because that I'm hoping is a moment. But keep going. Okay. She ended up moving back in with her sibling, her sister Susanna, and in 1745, she decided to put on her brother-in-law's clothes, assumed his name, and went to Coventry to search for sums.
SPEAKER_00So she's now like, I'm gonna go find in like a vindictive way, like in a like, I'm gonna teach him a lesson.
SPEAKER_01I don't think just to see what he's up to, probably. Yeah, maybe like that. And also, like, I imagine the trauma of like losing your only baby would maybe be like, uh like I have to go tell him, or like maybe you would feel a I don't know. I'm trying to find an angle in which, like, yeah, go find him, but I'm like, you're better off anyway. Totally. Also, if you're dressed with a man, what's the end game there? I feel like you've got you're probably just like, I'm gonna go see what that guy's up to. So I can really not like him because he's probably off with another lady. Yes, she did learn on her travels that her husband had been executed for murder. So wait, he murdered someone? Yeah. Whoa! Yeah, but was also executed. So you know, see a sum. Yeah. Bye. So at this time, you know, she's probably feeling pretty, pretty rock bottom, maybe a little happy and relieved. We don't know for sure, but she's like, I've got this outfit on, might as well enlist in the British Army. So she does so at the young age of 25. So she keeps her, she uses her brother-in-law's identity, the one that she took the clothes from. So James Gray is her name now. She received training in military exercises and was very good at it, greatly excelled. At this time, she also had a falling out with the surge uh the sergeant in her regiment, and his name was Davis, who accused Gray of neglecting her duties. Now, we don't know if that's true, but the next part is this incident was prompted due to Gray's refusal to facilitate a sexual encounter between Davis and a local woman. So Davis was like, yo, Gray, like help me nail this shit. Yeah, and he, she and she was like, Hey, you're disgusting, yeah, and I hate you and the man I was married to. So no, sir. Exactly. She's done with she's taken enough shit from men. So for this accused neglect, she was sentenced to 600 lashes. Stop it right now. Yep. What? Okay, wait. So wait. So was it officially neglected duties? But he's like, you know that I know that the duty was that you were gonna get me laid. Yeah, I yeah, I believe so. Oh, yeah. Oh my gosh, I know, isn't that horrible? 600? That's too many. One is too many. 600 is yeah. And they actually did it to her? Yeah. And so there is somebody who wrote a biography on her life. His name is Robert Walker, and in that biography, he um it's mentioned that she alluded to discovery during this time due to the manner in which her arms were tied at the to the gate, and she had a very small chest to begin with, so like super small boobs, and the way that she was tied, like her hands were like kind of obviously. Otherwise, someone would be like, oh, that's a that's a woman for sure. Yeah. After that, she deserted and was like, to hell with this. Yeah. And then decided, though, to join the Royal Marines. So she did that for uh, well, so they sailed to India to take part in the first Carnatic War. Again, not something I'm familiar with.
SPEAKER_00Um doesn't sound great. Doesn't sound great, a bunch of British people going to another land and engaging in war. Exactly. I mean, listen, could be completely wrong, however. Probably not doesn't sound above board.
SPEAKER_01Well, they basically continued to like on these various missions. She did this for like a few years, and um eventually she also fought in a battle where she was injured a total of 11 times. I just burped.
SPEAKER_00You have to I really hope that that was not in. I tried to not do it. You know me. I I'm the anyways.
SPEAKER_01I feel like I have to keep that in, but I can appreciate you. Probably are like, please don't. No, you didn't even I didn't even hear it. Was it one of your that's well, yeah, that's normally how I burp, is I don't burp. I just ingest.
SPEAKER_00But it popped out. This is horrifying.
SPEAKER_01I usually ingest is my favorite thing you've ever said. Oh my god, please, for the love of all that is holy, please proceed. Okay. So during this time, she was injured 11 different times with one shot in her groin and five in her leg. Gun shots. Yep.
SPEAKER_00Oh my god, that's not casual at all.
SPEAKER_01Okay, nope. Um, and this was the like, so this was one of the battles that her unit fought in 1749. So after the battle, she was obviously sent to the hospital and she was seen by two physicians to avoid revealing her sex. She either removed the bullet herself or was assisted by a local woman instead of being tended by the regimental surgeon. So my gosh. Again, these women are just doing like that's I I pain aside, I simply couldn't, I just couldn't do that to myself. Like I couldn't. No, I don't have like the I just would have given up so much earlier on. Yes. All of these women in every single scenario. Same. After her three-month recovery, she was reunited with her fleet and returned to duty on the undermanned ship. So she spent five weeks in Bombay, where her crewmates noticed that she did not shave her face, and they nicknamed her Miss Molly Gray. But not aware she's a woman's face. Not being like she actually oh my gosh. Yes. And this prompted her to begin flirting with local women as a way to reduce suspicious suspicion about her sex. Shortly thereafter, she returned home to England after being discharged for complications with her room with her wounds. And in 1750, she returned with her unit to Britain, and she at this time revealed her sex to her shipmates. Um she became close enough with her unit.
SPEAKER_00Uh like Did she fall in love with someone? No, but Is this is this a rom-com? No, okay. Thought it was going a different direction. I feel weird. Okay, keep going. Yeah, that makes sense.
SPEAKER_01Um not real life. She petitioned Prince William, Duke of Cumberland, the head of the army, for her pension. So she's like, I'm getting a fucking pension. Yeah. And did he get it? Did she get it? You'll see. And she sold her story to a London publisher. So she was like, My story's fucking crazy. Uh and also like, I'm I'm already starting from far behind, and this is extraordinary. Yes. And like, I have to fight for my pension. So exactly. I'm gonna put the pressure on. Yep. And Robert Walker published it, and it's called The Female Soldier. And then she also began to appear on stage in their uniform presenting military drills and singing songs, and three painters painted her. her portrait in her uniform. With her being a woman? Yep. Yep. Okay. And it was published in the this portrait was published in the gentleman's magazine.
SPEAKER_00Oh love that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. It's controversial. Yes. Yes, exactly. And she was honorably discharged. Yes. And the Royal Hospital Chelsea officially recognized Snell's military service in November of 1750 and granted her a pension. Yeah, get it snail. Yes. Yes. The last tidbit on her is sources claim that after receiving her pension she retired to Whopping, which is a some part of England, and kept a pub. So she owned a pub and named it it's either Smolly. The female no but that would be cute. It's not confirmed but it's either the female warrior or the widow in masquerade.
SPEAKER_02Oh.
SPEAKER_01And she also went on to get married and have two children after all that. She did it all. She did it. She did it all. She literally was like I'm going to do this my own way. Yeah. And I am going to participate in whatever I would like to. Yes, exactly. Yeah, her story is crazy. And then one more thing that so those are the three women but for those who are interested in reading another pretty interesting one but I'm not going to go into details. I'm just going to share the name and also there's a Hong Kong film based on this person. So I personally want to watch that. So I didn't want to like ruin it for myself by reading too much. But the name is Yoshiko Kawashima and it seems like quite an incredible story. So okay well maybe we should watch that separately obviously because we live in different places and then discuss. I think that'd be cool. And that my friends is a wrap. Wow we covered a lot of ground I'm so happy that you did the topic you did. That was an amazing one. Oh good well I really liked yours as well truly and the format was fun. I'm a little sad that I'll never know. It's probably something I'll think about like while I fall asleep. But yeah I probably should have I don't know what I should have done to it. I don't know that there's I don't know that there's a lot that you could do.
SPEAKER_00I should have gone and saved those guys. Okay. I'm delirious now I need to go to bed.
SPEAKER_01Yeah that's so fair. I think that's a perfect note to end on. Um