A Brief History of UFOs and UAPs (Part One)

In part one of “A Brief History of UFOs and UAPs, VOICES FROM THE ATTIC (Terri Reid and Andrew T. Reid) explores the mysteries of UFOs and UAPs through a blend of personal experience, historical context, and modern disclosure efforts.

In this episode, we share firsthand encounters, examine government programs that have investigated unexplained aerial phenomena, and discuss the documentary The Age of Disclosure—what it reveals, and what it may still be leaving unsaid.

From the deeply personal to the officially documented, this conversation examines the growing gap between what we’re told… and what may actually be happening.

New episodes released regularly.

Join Paranormal Mystery Author Terri Reid and researcher Andrew T. Reid as they explore ghosts, cryptids, alien encounters, and other unexplained mysteries.

If you'd like to share your opinion, thoughts, or your own paranormal experience with us, please contact us at vftattic@gmail.com. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:00

So, even though it has been reported that some of our fighter pilots have chased these objects and even fired missiles at them, there has not been some kind of strong negative retaliation. So it'd be pretty easy to come to the conclusion that they're friendly. And that's fine. And there's no real threat there. But the truth of the matter is, you have to take into account, well, under what condition, you know, that might change. For example, if you have ants at the back of your yard, uh, they're not a threat to you, so that's fine. But if they come and invade your house, suddenly they're a threat. And so it could be the same in this situation. Harold Puttiff, quantum physicist, AATIP chief scientist.

SPEAKER_02 0:52

Listen closely as the old walls still speak.

SPEAKER_01 0:57

Some things are hidden, not to be forgotten, but to be kept.

SPEAKER_02 1:01

The old house remembers what others forget.

SPEAKER_01 1:05

What is remembered is messy truly.

SPEAKER_02 1:09

Listen closely, and you too may just hear voices from the attic.

SPEAKER_01 1:27

Hey guys, welcome back to the attic. Um, and thank you for watching Voices from the Attic. I am Andrew T. Reed. I am a researcher, storyteller, and just uh a big old nerd overall.

SPEAKER_03 1:40

Once again, I'm still his mom. Hasn't changed. I'm an author, um, storyteller. Now becoming a researcher. It's this is fun, isn't it? It's a lot of fun. And um, of course, you guys are making us a YouTube phenomenon. So thank you very much.

SPEAKER_01 1:58

Yeah, thank you for uh, you know, whether on the the podcast following and and commenting and liking and doing all those things, or if it's like on YouTube, then you know liking, subscribing, you know, commenting, all doing all those things, as well as letting other people know about the channel because the best way to to spread a channel, um, just like a disease, is word of mouth. Ew.

unknown 2:24

Ew.

SPEAKER_03 2:25

But thank you. We can't believe how how this has exploded. So thank you. We we are really enjoying this, and we hope you are enjoying this too. So today we're gonna talk about something out of this world. Did you like that?

SPEAKER_01 2:41

That was that was pretty good. Thank you. That was pretty good.

SPEAKER_03 2:43

Um, so uh UFOs, UAPs, ET, uh, Mork, um And Mindy. Alf. Well Mindy was from the United States. Oh, it's I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 2:54

So Mork is the my favorite Martian. Resident Alien, uh Alan Tudic.

SPEAKER_03 2:59

Oh, don't know that one.

SPEAKER_01 3:01

It's it's a it's a great sci-fi. Alan Tudic is uh is the resident alien, which I actually think is I think he's just actually an alien because he's too good for this world.

SPEAKER_03 3:12

What was the one where the well, so Saturday Night Live had the cone heads, but wasn't there a um a TV show, a sitcom where there were the alien people and maybe Jane Curtin was in it too, but they were they were these aliens that were living among people, but they were just they were I could imagine I that might rock third rock the third rock yes, thank you.

unknown 3:37

John Lithgow?

SPEAKER_03 3:38

Yes, John Lithgow was in it. Yep, thank you.

SPEAKER_01 3:41

This was before my time, I think.

unknown 3:43

Shh.

SPEAKER_01 3:44

It could be. It's okay. I I might reference Avatar The Last Airbender in this because we're gonna be talking a lot about uh there is no war in Bossing Sei, and that was after your time. So I'm still here. It can't be you're not gonna watch cartoons. No, I'm not. I grew up with that show.

SPEAKER_03 4:00

So um we're gonna be talking about um UFOs, uh UIPs, and and actually not even though we kind of mention pulp culture, you know, we're we're not gonna be talking about that. We have actually done quite a bit of research, watched some documentaries.

SPEAKER_01 4:17

Um I don't know. It's for for the for the listeners at home. I have picked up and I'm wobbling my big old stack of papers. This is um double-sided or yeah, double-sided. This is uh 50 55 pages of notes. And I promise you, I'm not gonna let him sit there and read this. No, no, a lot of a lot of these notes are are for me, for my knowledge, but um, you know, supplemental and everything like that. But also, this might, we're not sure yet. This might end up being a two-parter. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 4:48

We're gonna see what we do. So to me, the idea of UFOs, and and I have had experiences um of seeing a UFO. And and so, and it's interesting to me, it kind of follows along the same as ghost stories. You know, when you've had an experience with a ghost and somebody else tells you their experience with a ghost, you believe them because well, yeah, it happened to me. Why wouldn't it happen to you? And and and but then you have people who have never had those experiences. And so when you start talking about UFOs, they don't believe it.

SPEAKER_01 5:29

Even though recently, um, I I think very recently very recently, a lot of information has been released where the the government has admitted that they have biological non-human the government hasn't admitted themselves, whistleblowers within the government. And so, and that's gonna be one of the fun things because you know, as we as we go into this, um there's a narrative, and then government officials have a a a different some government officials. Some government officials, I will say government organizations have a narrative, uh, whereas various different government officials have different narratives and they don't always agree necessarily. Which is like way surprising to us. I know, right?

SPEAKER_03 6:19

I know government a government covering something up.

SPEAKER_01 6:23

It's never happened. I know.

SPEAKER_03 6:24

So we're gonna talk about that, but um it I think you can watch this and enjoy it, whether or not you are um a believer of UFOs. Hopefully um we might change some minds.

SPEAKER_01 6:38

But also, I mean, and this is the big thing that we're gonna be we're gonna be discussing as well. UFOs don't necessarily equate extraterrestrial. UFOs there, I mean, I think everyone should believe in the idea of things in our sky that we can't identify, that don't have a rational explanation. Right. Um, because those do exist. I mean, the government has said, yes, these things are out there. They just haven't admitted to any further understanding. They they they have no evidence that it comes from uh somewhere outside of our world andor solar system.

SPEAKER_03 7:21

But they've also admitted that we do not, and and neither do our adversaries have the technology to do the kind of things that these UAP UFOs are are doing in our skies.

SPEAKER_01 7:33

Exactly. And so, you know, there there are a range of different hypotheses from extraterrestrials to, you know, um Barney. Yeah, bar Barney. Well, natural things, but also, you know, potentially things that aren't necessarily from this world, but you know, for like for that are it from this world, but not necessarily from this dimension or different things like that. But ultimately, at the end of the day, the government, and I don't think the government at this point can admit that there are visitors from another planet. But we're not gonna be discussing that today.

SPEAKER_03 8:08

We're just discussing although we have met people that we are sure are visitors from another planet.

SPEAKER_01 8:13

At the very least, they act like it.

SPEAKER_03 8:15

I know, yeah. Yeah, but that guy's gotta be an alien.

SPEAKER_01 8:20

And you know who we're talking about. Yeah, even if we're talking about, yeah, even if we're talking about different people, you know who we're talking about.

SPEAKER_03 8:28

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, so and so I am like in the totally believe camp, and and um I'm I'm totally there. Uh, I think Andrew isn't the more skeptical.

SPEAKER_01 8:40

I'm in the open-minded, and I guess what I mean by that is if I I could buy that it's extraterrestrial. I could also buy that it's interdimensional. I could also buy that it's nature, that is just something that we don't fully understand and it's just a natural A really, really, really fast bird. Yeah, yeah. I mean, you know, I who who knows? Who knows? And that's the thing. I and I I really do appreciate the idea, anyway, of of our current um the the current program, uh arrow, which we'll be kind of going into. I believe that's how it's pronounced. It's A-A-R-O. So I'm gonna call it Arrow because that sounds cooler. Okay, but um I like the idea. I think it's A arrow. Like A A Ron? Like A A Ron.

SPEAKER_04 9:28

A arrow.

SPEAKER_01 9:29

Oh my gosh. But um I like the idea that they have of trying to analyze all of these things objectively. Okay. You know, not and and if something doesn't fit into a category, you know, either just saying, just having an extra category that says doesn't really fit and not explainable, or having other subcategories and things like that of of different unexplainable uh ideas. I think that, you know, as we as we approach these things, I think it's natural, I think it's good that we, like I said, just kind of keep our minds open because if if we have you know shherlock holmes, he gets an idea and then he comes up with the evidence based off of the idea. That's in my opinion, backwards to the scientific method. I think we should, you know, maybe we have a hypothesis, but we keep our minds open so that we don't have the narrative supporting our hypothesis, but rather be comfortable with the idea that our hypothesis, either way, might be wrong.

SPEAKER_03 10:31

Right. Well, and and you know, you start thinking about, for example, we know more about the surface of the moon and actually the surface of Mars than we do about the bottom of our ocean. Absolutely. And so if if you know, it doesn't need to be an extraterrestrial, it could be an aqua terrestrial, you know.

SPEAKER_01 10:50

Yeah, I mean Lovecraft and Cthulhu and all that stuff, you know. That's I mean, you know, they came from they came from the stars. Aquaman. Aquaman, yeah. I I would love to see a comic of Aquaman punching Cthulhu in the face. That would be amazing. I'd probably it's probably out there somewhere. Um, but um, and there are, I mean, you you mentioned the ocean, but there are, you know, I I don't remember if they're I haven't seen the videos. Uh I've heard people reference, I don't know if they're videos or just examples, but uh, you know, the the the pill or the tic-tac or whatever going into the ocean.

SPEAKER_03 11:24

Submerging, yeah. I was watching some of those videos yesterday and actually Expedition X um did a uh an episode on on that and actually had video. It was very, very interesting. And so, yeah, these UAPs uh coming from the atmosphere and just going right into the ocean.

SPEAKER_01 11:47

Because look, if they're gonna be fast in the sky, they're I mean, even if they're not necessarily they they would need to be airtight for this, but they probably should also be able to be fast in the ocean, too. I mean, the ocean's a little bit thicker, but if uh if they're fast in the ocean, they would be able to be fast in the sky.

SPEAKER_03 12:03

So um just uh so I watched the documentary yesterday, Age of Disclosure, which was fascinating to me.

SPEAKER_01 12:10

I did not watch it. And so we're gonna it's gonna be very interesting. Our discussions are gonna be coming from different bases because I I uh I read and uh summarized um arrows specific findings, and so this will be a very interesting discussion.

SPEAKER_03 12:22

But one of the things they did is they they they have recorded these a aerial, unknown aerial phenomena, UAPs coming actually from space, going into our atmosphere and then going into the ocean. And they've recorded the speed, and the speed is in the ocean is remarkable because you you think about things like you know, the water slowing things down, and it's like it for somehow they don't seem to react to that gravity that that water, that um friction on them.

SPEAKER_01 13:01

Yeah, so the air isn't slowing them down, the water's not slowing them down, they're just right, you know, they're they're vibing. And these yeah, if if this is like the tic-tac things, circles are not supposed to be able to be that fast in either uh air or sea. Right. Um, but uh what we're mostly what we're doing today though, we want to mostly give a very brief overview of the history of of things in the sky that we can't fully explain. Um we're gonna primarily be talking about American history because well, first of all, we're Americans. Um, but then also that there's a a big culture surrounding UFOs uh and UAPs here in the United States specifically. Uh, and we're gonna be talking about, you know, some of the reasons why. We're gonna be talking about things, you know, we're we're talking about, we're gonna be diving a little bit into prehistory, just briefly dabbling in there. Um, we're gonna be talking a little bit, because we also don't want to go the ancient aliens route. You know, that's not necessarily what we're trying to do. We're trying to talk about things people have observed in the skies for a long, long time. That that aren't very explainable. We're not gonna be talking about, like, for instance, the the supernova, the the crab, um, I forget the the crab nebula supernova that happened. Uh, we're not gonna be necessarily talking about that because, you know, that is explainable. It wasn't back then, but it is now. Uh, but we will be though, there are several accounts of things that I found interesting. And there are probably a lot of other things that I don't know about um that that you know anyway.

SPEAKER_03 14:37

And we'll also be adding some personal anecdotes to this, some stories about um UAPs, UFOs, and um yeah, yeah, and and what we have personally experienced.

SPEAKER_01 14:52

Yes. Um also eventually, whether it's this episode or next episode, we will be talking about uh a lot of the government's um how the government has responded to various UFO and UAP sightings through the different organizations that they've created, whether through the DOD or the CIA or or various other entities. Um we're gonna be talking about how the the citizens of the United States have reacted to some of these things. Right. Uh and you know, like I also mentioned, we're gonna be talking about um uh arrows specific analysis on various different narratives that have come across from you know whistleblowers and and other and other groups. Uh and we're gonna be talking about our own opinions of those. And you know, yeah, yes, there's there's gonna be a lot of our own opinions. Um but you know, also bear in mind that that even though we'll be talking about some of these things, the the the the way the um as an entity uh voices from the attic does not support or deny any specific theory. Um because you know, we don't know. Exactly, we don't know. We might have ideas, but we could be wrong. And you know what? I know. We're we're human and we can be wrong about things. No. Preposterous.

SPEAKER_03 16:20

All right. So we're gonna start with early history. Yeah. Andrew, I'm gonna throw it to you.

SPEAKER_01 16:24

Yeah, so I did a lot of a lot of research. It's been fun. Uh, I'll try to keep all these brief because this is not gonna be the most the the the meat of it, the main meat of it. Uh I'll try to go in order, uh, which I didn't write in order because I I like to make things more challenging for myself. So uh in the first and second uh century AD, um a Greek historian, uh Plutarch, I believe, either Plutarch or Plutarch uh Plutarch. I don't know, I don't know the exact uh pronunciation, but he wrote a biography about uh Lucilus, about an event that happened right before a war broke out. So this was you know, and and this is we'll find very often that a lot of these early accounts, generally speaking, if it's something unexplainable in the sky, they'll uh attribute it to God or an omen. That makes sense. It makes sense. Uh so here's the quote. Uh and this is uh from a translation of uh it the the biographies, I believe it's called Lucy uh Lucilus or Luculus. I don't I I don't know exactly. It's it's Greek. Um Greek to me, right? It's all Greek to me. So here's a quote. But presently, as they were on the point of joining battle with no apparent change of weather, but all of a sudden the sky burst asunder, and a huge flame-like body was seen to fall between the two armies. In shape, it was almost like a wine jar, and in color, like molten silver. Both sides were astonished at the sight and separated. This marvel, as they say, occurred in Phrygia at a place called Otrae.

SPEAKER_04 18:09

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 18:10

We're gonna put I'm gonna put the text down so you guys can decide how it's pronounced because I probably got that wrong.

SPEAKER_03 18:16

Can I just add as an aside, it's very interesting to me that this happened over a battle.

SPEAKER_01 18:22

Yes. And a lot of these happen over battles.

SPEAKER_03 18:24

And and that's and and now um a lot of these UIPs are shown over military bases and things like that. So um, you know, somebody from the if you believe any of this, yeah. Somebody from the sky for somebody from the sky is like watching us uh and saying, you know, maybe we don't want that battle to happen. Why don't you park the car in between those two warring countries? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:54

So or hey, why don't you watch these guys as they're fighting each other because we need to keep an eye on them or something, something along those lines.

SPEAKER_03 19:03

But this one sounded like it was like we're we're gonna stop this war.

SPEAKER_01 19:07

Which is fair, which is fair, but that's not the only thing. Okay, go right ahead. Yeah. So later on in uh let's see, um it's either pronounced Josephus or Joseph uh Josephus. Josephus um in 66 AD. Um, so this is from the works of Josephus. He describes a list of omens that he saw that foretold Jerusalem's defeat in war. He talks about a bunch of different things, but the the the main or yeah, several different things. A big old paragraph, but the the one that I want to point out, I want to pull, uh, which is the oddest one out of them all, and he points this out, is that before the setting sun, chariots and troops of soldiers in their armor were seen running about among the clouds and surrounding the cities.

SPEAKER_03 19:58

And that could be, you know, many people would take that as a religious like angel scale. Absolutely. Yes. Yeah. But certainly could be also it could be extraterrestrial, right?

SPEAKER_01 20:09

I mean, people don't like when I say this. And I've I I have said this before to various different people, especially, you know, religious individuals. Technically, if you look at the technicalities, angels and and and God, in a sense, um aren't technically from this planet. This planet was created by them, which means they're not from it. They're technically extraterrestrial. A lot of people don't like that because you know it's religion and everything, but technically speaking.

SPEAKER_03 20:40

Right. If terrestrial means the earth, they are not from it.

SPEAKER_01 20:44

They are not from it, they're from heaven, which is somewhere else. Right. So Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, and then the last one uh that I'm gonna be bringing up.

SPEAKER_03 20:52

They're probably Frankish animals? Annals, Annals.

SPEAKER_01 20:56

Uh Anal. Uh, Annals. Annals. Okay. In in uh the Royal Frankish Annals in um 776 A.D. Um so uh the Frankish uh the Royal Frankish Annals are court-centered, a court-centered year-by-year record of the uh Carolon uh Carolingian rulers' reigns. Uh it's often described by historians as official or court adjacent narrative, which means that it it will be accurate, but also will have a narrative kind of. It'll have a narrative, it'll have a political narrative. And this narrative specifically, again, is about how uh God has found them in favor. Uh so in in the uh you said uh Annal? Annal. Annal. Yeah. Anal, because we call it annals of history. Right. Um uh for 776. The author is describing a siege scene where the Franks are being besieged by the Saxons. It's clear the narrative, like I said, clear clear narrative is supposed to show that God is on the Franks' side. Um, that's when God's glory appears. Appears above a church building inside the fortress. Here's the quote. This was witnessed by a large number of people, both inside and outside, many of whom are still alive today. Not today. Not today. Yeah. That that'd be amazing if they were alive. Wow, yeah, yeah. Not just today. And they say that they saw the likeness of two shields, red in color and flaming and moving to and fro over the church. Now, a lot of people have have said that's uh a solar flare or or something like that. But two shields, that imagery feels less flary and more metallic. Right.

SPEAKER_03 22:41

And granted And it was shields, not clouds or not bursts of light.

SPEAKER_01 22:48

Right, right. And there are a lot of different ways to to and and honestly a lot more uh religious ways to symbolically show a solar flare or or some um astronomical thing that we could now describe to you know to to to say this is something again, it's a shield. That's to me screams metallic. And it's and it's red, which could be, but it's it's very interesting. You know, there there are explanations that people have come up with, but we don't know. We don't know. And and we're not saying ships, we're saying things from the sky that we can't explain. This fits perfectly. Yeah. So those are some of the the the early history uh examples that I have. Um and so now we're gonna move into the not as early history, um specifically the first massively reported unidentified flying object sightings in the United States, which was Airships.

SPEAKER_03 23:54

So this was cool because I had done a freaky Friday on this, so I'm gonna. So uh this is from the Rochelle, Illinois Herald, so our neighbor, dated April 7th, 1896.

SPEAKER_01 24:07

And and you said this was the first sighting. This was the first sighting of airships. Because a lot of so my research in this, a lot of people said that California was the first sighting, but you said that you showed that it came out.

SPEAKER_03 24:19

This came out in April, and the other ones were like uh November. Let's see, yes, November. So this is so this is what the the paper said. Uh Rochelle, Illinois, April 5th. So actually, it was dated April 7th, but it happened on April 5th. Sure. The mysterious airship that has been seen at various points in the last few weeks made its appearance here Saturday night. About 7 30 o'clock, someone discovered a bright object coming toward the city from the southwest. Soon the news spread and hundreds of people were watching the strange object. When first sighted, it did not have the appearance of being more than a few hundred feet above the earth. As it came closer, it appeared to rise higher. It traveled quite slowly at times and again would move quite fast. It was a sight from this point about thirty minutes before it disappeared in an easterly direction. Glasses of all kinds were used to try and discover, if possible, the outlines of the strange ship, but all in vain. Some had the idea that they could hear a noise coming from the ship. Yep. Some went so far to say that it was human voices, while others said it was the sound of machinery. Um Chicago Interocean. There is not a questi there is not question but that several glasses were used before any person was in shape to see the airship that passed over the city last night. We would recommend to those seeing the ship to try bromides for at least for a time at least. So I think people got sick, actually.

SPEAKER_01 26:02

Oh, because they were they were probably looking into the sky and looking to the sun.

SPEAKER_03 26:07

Maybe I don't know. It's probably not good for you. Aren't bromides um oh here is okay. How clever of me. I wrote it just for your information and because I had no idea and still did. Wow, look at that. Look at that history. I know. Bromides were used during that time period as a sedative to calm someone's nerves. So people were very upset about seeing this.

SPEAKER_01 26:30

Very interesting, very interesting.

SPEAKER_03 26:32

So so then I said um Rochelle wasn't alone in its viewing of these extraterrestrial aircrafts, but was one of the first sightings. The Sacramento Bee and the San Francisco Call reported the first sightings on November 18th, 1896. Witnesses reported a light moving slowly over Sacramento on the evening of November 17th at approximately an estimated 1,000 foot elevation. Some witnesses say they could see a dark shape behind the light. A witness named R. L. Lowery reported that he heard a voice from the craft issuing commands to increase elevation in order to avoid hitting a church steeple. Lowery added, in what was no doubt meant as a wink to the reader, that he believed the apparent captain to be referring to the tower of the local brewery as there were no churches nearby. Lowery further described the craft as being powered by two men exerting themselves on bicycle pedals. Above pedaling men seemed to be a passenger compartment which lay under the main body of the dirigible. A light was mounted on the front end of the airship. Some witnesses reported the sound of singing as the craft passed overhead. So it was the sound the singing was from uh close encounters of the third kind.

SPEAKER_01 27:59

So then the I figured it was uh it was uh Han Zimmer that's the Caribbean. Oh, I like that would be cool. That'd be awesome. Actually, I would be okay with an airship just flying overhead as long as that soundtrack was going on. One of the best film soundtracks, in my opinion. Anyway.

SPEAKER_03 28:17

So then November 19th, 1896, the Stockton, California Daily Mail featured one of the earliest accounts of an alleged alien craft sighting. Colonel, Colonel H. G. Shaw claimed that while driving his buggy through the countryside near Stockton, he came across what appeared to be a landed spacecraft. Shaw described it as having a metallic surface, was which was completely featureless, apart from a rudder and pointed ends. He estimated a diameter of 25 feet and said the vessel was around 150 feet in total length. Three slender, seven foot tall, apparent extraterrestrials were said to approach the craft while emitting a strange warbling noise. And remind me, what year is this? 1896. A strange warbling noise. Oh, that's ooh, that is kind of a good warbling noise.

SPEAKER_01 29:20

Is that picking up? Okay.

unknown 29:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:22

Sorry, I'll set that down. I don't think it was uh space turkeys. Yeah, space turkeys. Space turkeys. Turkeys from space. I thought turkeys could fly. Oh, fantastic poll. Fantastic poll. What a reference.

SPEAKER_03 29:44

The beings reportedly examined Shaw's buggy. Sorry. And then tried to physically force him to accompany them back to the airship.

SPEAKER_01 29:58

Which I'm sure went over. Oh, wait, wait. So so they were trying to force him. Right. Interesting.

SPEAKER_03 30:04

Interesting. Uh early trying to probe, I'm thinking. The aliens were said. Did they say this? Did they say get in loser? I don't know if they said that. They probably not. Probably not. Probably didn't. So um those of you who are listening to us, Andrew pointed to a Christmas present he received.

SPEAKER_01 30:23

Fantastic Christmas present.

SPEAKER_03 30:24

That is a metal sign that says it has a alien uh spaceship hovering with a um it's pulling somebody into their spacecraft.

SPEAKER_01 30:35

It's uh it's it's um what oh shoot, what's the what's the term? Um transporting? No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Abducting? Abducting, yeah. It's an alien, it's a it's a it's a image of a classic alien abduction scenario. Um and it says and and I do feel a little bit bad because I know that some of the some of the people who've like been through this, this is a little bit traumatizing. Uh trigger warning. Trigger, yeah, trigger warning. If it you know, but get in loser. We're doing butt stuff. Um so uh you know, probes and whatnot.

SPEAKER_03 31:08

So obviously Colonel Shaw wasn't into that kind of stuff. So the beings reportedly.

SPEAKER_01 31:14

I don't think I don't think there are any reports of that kind of stuff happening uh in 18 in the 1890s.

SPEAKER_03 31:19

So the cat the aliens were said to give up after realizing they lacked the physical strength to force Shaw aboard. So Colonel Shaw was a good, strong, hefty guy. Yeah. They supposedly fled back to their ship, which lifted off the ground and sped out of sight. Thing. Shaw believed that the beings were Martians, sent to kidnap an earthling for for unknowable but potentially nefarious purposes. This has been seen by some as an early attempt at alien abduction. See what did I say? Yep. It is apparently the first published account of explicitly extraterrestrial beings attempting to kidnap humans into their spacecraft.

SPEAKER_01 32:08

Yes. Now, obviously, we do need to, you know, to to to to stay fair, um, and kind of hinted at this a lot, but there are a lot of people, and I I agree for some of it, there are a lot of people who point to this as primarily uh yellow journalism that was pretty rampant during that time. Uh, there are a lot of journalists who would grab onto something and they would embellish it. That that alien abduction, at first, that alien abduction, early alien abduction thing, that sounded like it could be somewhat feasible, especially since there are a lot of those same patterns later on, as we'll see. It does, though, seem to maybe by the end of it start to bleed into the area of, especially when they don't actually like he fights them off. I'm like, um, okay. Because all the other abduction stories that we have. Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 33:03

Yeah, that teach your long green fingers away from my body.

SPEAKER_01 33:09

Again, I don't think I don't think probing was uh was really widely well known. That was a specific other um, that was another encounter that that people and that's why I feel a little bit bad about this now that I'm thinking about it, because there are people who, you know, have have stated to have encountered and they kind of messed them up a little bit.

SPEAKER_03 33:26

Okay, so I'm going down a quick rabbit hole. I hope it's a quick rabbit hole. We'll find out. So I'm trying to think. I think it was Astonishing Legends I was listening to, and they had a fellow in who actually had he had gone in because he was gonna have some kind of surgery. Yes, this is Astonishing Legends.

SPEAKER_01 33:43

This was uh um the devil's encounter at the Devil's Peak or Devil's, it's it's it's it's something that he had an account, yeah. He has a whole book about various different encounters. Right.

SPEAKER_03 33:57

Because he he was had encounters his whole life. So he's not like he's very credible, yes, very credible individual. Uh so he was gonna go into for surgery, and so they did an x-ray and they found um a metal thing, uh piece in his knee. And um, and they they uh showed him the x-rays, but there's no entry or exit scarring.

SPEAKER_01 34:22

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 34:23

And that all of a sudden, boof, it triggered, opened up all these memories of of him being abducted. And um yeah, so and this and and don't don't do x-rays if you don't want to know the truth.

SPEAKER_01 34:36

Well, and the interesting thing with that is yeah, because because the the doctor was so sure he's like, Oh yeah, we we have this, you'll find we'll find uh a scar. Right. And and they couldn't find one. And the that specific because he he had other encounters before then. Um and actually he one of his friendships was broken uh because of of an encounter that he and his buddy had at the same time.

SPEAKER_03 35:02

And the buddy okay, the buddy it didn't end well for the buddy. That's what we'll say.

SPEAKER_01 35:07

Yeah, yeah, it it was it was very gnarly. Um but these this metal that he had in his knee, uh he remembered it was not from that encounter, but in fact it was from an uh way earlier encounter when he was six, I want to say. Very young. He was very young when this happened. And so this is one of those situations where he was tracked his whole life. Um that and that story is is is wild because it also involves a lot of other uh common I'm not gonna say tropes because that's not uh the correct term, uh, common factors, common parallels with other things where you know he's being he's kind of being bullied a little bit by men in black, yeah. Kind of, yeah. Uh and also, you know, other specifically government entities as well. He's being told to hush up by various different sign this non-disclosure exactly. And we'll and we will be talking about some of those things, uh whether, you know, today or or or later on.

SPEAKER_03 36:05

Um yeah, so I did go rabbit hole, but let's go back to the case. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:09

Let's go back to the the the mystery airship sightings of 1890. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 36:13

Well, and so I'm done with my side.

SPEAKER_01 36:14

Okay, well, and so uh 1896, excuse me, 1896, 1897. Uh, but no, I think it's so I I a few things are interesting. So so here's here's some of the things I was able to pull. So the sightings, all the states that the sightings were reported in, and this is in uh uh alphabetical order. Okay. Uh Alabama, Arkansas, California, Colorado, Illinois, a lot in Illinois, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Michigan, Minnesota, Missouri, Nebraska, Oklahoma, South Dakota, Tennessee. You said that wrong. Uh Oklahoma. Okay. Uh Tennessee, Texas, West Virginia, Mountain Mama, okay, and Wisconsin. So a lot of southern and midwestern states, as well as a lot of western. No eastern.

SPEAKER_03 37:02

Okay, so really. So how did it get here?

SPEAKER_01 37:06

Well, and that's the thing.

SPEAKER_03 37:07

I mean, so it didn't come across like it uh it wasn't Florida, it wasn't the Carolinas. I mean, I'm trying to do my geography and go up the coast. There are no East Coasties, and all of a sudden it shows up Illinois and Wisconsin. It seems feels like they are the first, they're the Midwest.

SPEAKER_01 37:23

Well, and the interesting thing is you said that the first one that's reported is going easterly.

SPEAKER_03 37:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:29

But then it shows up the next day in in uh in Sacramento. Well, not oh, in Sacramento time. Okay, okay. Then there's different So that the next day. I I think it's you're right, you're right. But so it's interesting. Uh, so the descriptions within all the different things, they varied greatly. And so much so that I mean, again, a lot of people think it was a mixture of of yellow journalism as well as um hysteria, you know, people looking and seeing what they want to see in the skies. I don't agree with that necessarily.

SPEAKER_03 38:02

I think my personal opinion those people taking bromides probably are would agree disagree with that. Right.

SPEAKER_01 38:09

Well, and and you know, I I think I think some of the reportings could have been slightly hysteria. Right. Um, but I think that's not gonna account for all of them. And I don't think yellow journalism is gonna account for all of them.

SPEAKER_03 38:24

Well, and and you think about, I mean, Rochelle, Illinois is a farming community. Right. It's it's the heart of the Midwest.

SPEAKER_01 38:30

Chicago Tribute talks, I think is Chicago Tribute, Chicago something also talks about it. And the interesting thing is they even mentioned that you know there was uh another city that also saw it on that same night, and they're like, but they must be wrong because we saw it here in Chicago. And other people and a lot of people it it the way that it moved in the sky doesn't make sense, right?

SPEAKER_03 38:54

Um and it's not like a uh dirigible or uh you know, one of those. It's it's said that um airship technology by by like 1910, 1912, that's when you started having uh Count Ferdinand von Zeppelin. Yeah, the Zeppelins.

SPEAKER_01 39:13

And people did people some of the descriptions were very Zeppelin-like, right? But um that really didn't happen until like the 19 like 10 years after these these sightings. And I mean, technically, this could be testing, but in my research, while that that theory has been spun around a little bit, not a lot of not a lot of historians agree that that's a good uh because they're they're the technology wasn't there. The technology wasn't there to to support it.

SPEAKER_03 39:45

Right. And Colonel Shaw and his little three extraterrestrials that tried to take him on a ride.

SPEAKER_01 39:51

And he just fisticuffed them away.

SPEAKER_03 39:52

He said, I like that fisticuffs.

SPEAKER_01 39:55

That's why that's why I I imagine how it went. But some of the other descriptions that that they have, so one reported to be at least 18 inches in diameter with a steel body. 18 inches, you mean feet? Feet. I meant feet, I'm sure. I put inches, I'm sure I meant feet in in diameter with a steel body about 12 to 30 feet long.

SPEAKER_04 40:14

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_01 40:15

In Chicago, it was reported to be a slender object, 70 feet long with approximately 20 foot-wide structures resembling wings or sails just over the body. In Mount Carroll, Illinois, the airship was described by a neighbor. Mm-hmm. Was described to be eight to ten feet long and two or three feet high. People said it looked like an egg.

SPEAKER_03 40:38

Now, could that be a distance thing? It could be. Because you're looking up and it's looking, it's higher in the air, so it's looking that's probably about two feet high.

SPEAKER_01 40:47

And the thing is, I mean, unfortunately, when it comes to witness testimonies, uh it's even if they get the general idea, a lot of specifics are gonna be off. Right. People are going to make things look um, they're fish tails, right? You know, people are gonna make things seem a lot bigger or a lot smaller because we we don't we're not able to in the moment pull out a measure and say, could you just stay there for a second? I just want to measure you. Um, and we don't know how far away things are up in the sky either.

SPEAKER_03 41:14

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 41:14

Um, yeah, like I said, people thought it looked like an egg or a cigar with wings uh or a lot of other objects in that kind of frame. Um, one of the things I read about as well is that a lot of people, some sometimes they said it was just flying, just like normal smooth sailing. Right. Other times it was bobbing because the the sails were acting almost as wings. And so you know the wings were flapping, and so the body itself was kind of moving up and down a little bit as the wings flapped. What is the dragon from Never Ending Story? That's what I'm picturing in my mind. The uh the luck dragon. I don't remember his name. Falcor.

SPEAKER_03 41:51

Valcor, Falcoral. Falcor, Valcor. That's what I'm I'm kind of picturing, but with no tail and no head because he's just bombing with the wings.

SPEAKER_01 41:59

Right. Um you mentioned sounds, right? Um, various different humming was reported, crackling. Oh, uh hissing was reported. Um, and then also different some of the speeds that were reported. And this is not all the things that I I read about, but some of the things that uh stood out. Speeds were varied from five miles an hour in the sky to 200 miles per hour in the sky.

SPEAKER_03 42:26

And see that again, how do you measure that if if you're in the buggy generation?

SPEAKER_01 42:30

You can't. Yes. You can't. I mean, I would I would even say that us today, if we don't have the proper tools, right? We can't I can't look up in this, and I'm not I'm not somebody who would know, but I can't look up in the sky and go, uh yes, that airplane is traveling roughly blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Because I don't know. Right. And I don't think any pilot, I think a pilot will be able to say the average speed that it would need to stay in the air, but I don't think it'll uh they'll be able to look up in the sky and go, I bet that guy's going, blah, blah, blah, blah.

SPEAKER_03 42:57

Okay, well, and and maybe not, because again, the documentary I was watching yesterday, they were talking about um the fastest plane that we have on record goes about 4,600 miles per hour. And what do you said that was the black blackbird?

unknown 43:13

SR71.

SPEAKER_03 43:14

Okay, the blackbird SR seventy one. And so brought to you by Ford. And they were saying that these uh UAPs that they clocked were going 40,000 miles per hour.

SPEAKER_01 43:27

Jeez.

SPEAKER_03 43:27

So I'm I'm guessing then it must be that because it's on radar, they can clock that rather than uh visually look at it and say, yep, looks about 40,000 miles per hour.

SPEAKER_01 43:38

And another thing too, and and this is uh an interesting thing, and then we'll kind of I think maybe transition to um later on, uh other other not as early history reports, but um I think it's interesting that what people reported in the sky were I won't say what people know. But it doesn't resemble for the most part, some of it might, but for the most part, it doesn't resemble what we think of today when we think of of UAPs or UFOs. It resembled something that people would be would know a little bit more. Right. Ships. I mean, it's called airships for a reason. They people, some people describe them as having sails. I think it's very interesting that as we examine historically, as as we examine different UFO and UAP sightings, often a lot of them are dots or something like that because they're so far away. Tic-tacks. Yeah, tick, but but some of them are nowadays the modern thing are tic-tacks. But before then, and we're gonna be talking about this, but flying saucers. Right. And a lot of those were reported to to, you know, had a very specific shape because it was in the public zeitgeist that way. And I wonder if I mean, you know, I wonder what the cause and effect is there. I wonder if uh kind of similar to what we've talked about a little bit, you know, if if we are finding patterns in all things, if everything's connected, which some people might not believe that, um, I think it's interesting that the things that we see in the sky, is it are are we interpreting it a certain way because of how what we understand? Or is it showing us, is it reflecting what we expect to see in the sky because of what the public's like, guys? Are we seeing when we looked up to the skies in in the 80s, are we seeing UFOs because psychologically that's what we expect to see? Or are they showing us what we expect to see? And is that what they look like, or they look like something else completely different?

SPEAKER_03 45:44

Or or is it like the cloud idea where where we all look at a cloud and I say, Oh, I see a dragon, and you say, No, I see um my physics teacher with his big nose. I mean, you know, just depending on sorry, that was all I could come up with at the time. I never took physics, so you know I bet So I'm not insulting anybody real. No, okay. Nope.

SPEAKER_01 46:05

But he's a fictional big-nosed professor.

SPEAKER_03 46:07

Exactly. Uh Jimmy Durante, that was the I couldn't come up with that word, but you probably don't know who Jimmy Durante is. It sounds like he has a big nose. He had a big nose. Anyway, be we from our own perceptions and our own that's what we see. Yes, and and so somebody somebody who's used to going out on the river in uh in a canoe or in a fishing boat, yeah, would look up and see this this narrow oblong thing and say, Well, yep, that's a ship. That's a fishing boat. Yeah, you know, that's fair. And and somebody who smokes stogies would say, Nope, that that there's a a cigar.

SPEAKER_01 46:45

That's a cigar or a chicken coop, uh, an egg collector at a chicken coop. Yeah. Or somebody just went to the grocery store.

SPEAKER_03 46:51

Uh yeah, it's probably more if it's Rochelle, you know, it's poor eggs, yeah. We it it's the shape of my dad chicken's eggs, you know.

SPEAKER_01 46:59

And yeah. So yeah. Interesting. So um, and then after that, uh the the some other reports, and this is kind of the last one in the not as early history. Um, there were a lot of in World War II, this was kind of right before the big explosion of of the what I call the UFO era. Okay. Um in World War II, a lot of airfire air fighter pilots uh experienced seeing something that they later called foo fighters. Um so foo fighters were originally thought to be uh potentially a secret Nazi weapon. So they these were mysterious balls of fire that would race alongside the planes of U.S. fighter pilots for miles. They would keep up with them. These are just these big balls of fire. Actually, one of the one of the um the soldiers, one of the fighter pilots uh described them in an interview as, you know, he's like, I we they didn't they acted more as will of the wisp because they didn't interact with the with the pilot, they didn't interact with the plane, but they kept with them. They were they were there the whole time. Um there's an there's a quote from uh one of the guys. Let's see. Um here we go. It's it's on the other page. So Lieutenant Donald Myers, I'm assuming that's how it's pronounced, of Chicago, said that there are three types of foo fighters red balls of fire that fly along a wingtip, a vertical row of three balls of fire, which fly in front of the planes, and a group of about 15 lights, which appear off in the distance, like a Christmas tree up in the air, and flicker on and off. Um, and if you want to look more about this, uh the where I found it, where I researched some of these things, is called Project1947.com. I'm sure they have a lot of different things. 1947 probably is the why it's Project 1947, because 1947, as we'll find, is the explosion of the UFO era.

SPEAKER_03 49:18

But if you think about that, you know, 1947's that end of World War II, right era right after World War II. But we dropped the bomb. And so if you have these people that have um higher intelligence, higher technology, they've been kind of watching us, looking over us at we as we do war battles and things like that. So they've been kind of observing us throughout the war, and all of a sudden we move to this atomic bomb level. It doesn't surprise me that all of a sudden they're saying, we gotta watch these guys closer.

SPEAKER_01 49:52

I also wanna, I'm gonna quickly look something up. You might already know the answer to this, and some people might be screaming at me, but I'm gonna look up when the airplane was officially invented.

SPEAKER_03 50:04

Um is that the like the Kitty Hawk?

SPEAKER_01 50:08

Are you looking for Wilbur and uh oh so yeah, Wilbur and Orville Wright invented the kitty, yeah, in Kitty Hawk, North Carolina, was invented in December 17th, 1903. Right. Um and so it could also be one of those things where, you know, I mean, a bit of time has passed, but also that's less than 50 years has passed. And the the technology of of being in the sky, right, especially because of wartime, because technology always rapidly evolves during wartime. I mean, these these were going significantly faster than than even 10 to 20 years earlier. Coming from the biplanes to yeah, yeah, and then and as we look at our own technology, it is, I mean, I think just because of as we can look in history, technology is just exponentially grown. Right. Um, both in aircraft as well as just everything else. And so if and you know, whether if there is something observing us, if you believe that, then it would make sense that as technology increases, we would see more increased sightings of them, both because we have the technology to be able to record it, but also because they're more curious because now these ants are starting to learn how to go real fast. These ants are making cars and they're starting to go in our airspace now, too. What is this about?

SPEAKER_03 51:36

Well, and that's one of the things that uh from the documentary yesterday they talk about, you know, in the last um 80 years, exponentially, you know, our technology has grown. And if you have a higher technology group watching us, what has not unfortunately also grown is our morality. We are still a violent people. We still want the bigger stick, we still want to have the weapons to prove that we are more powerful. So with more power, we have not become a kinder, gentler people.

SPEAKER_00 52:09

No.

SPEAKER_03 52:09

And and they see that. Uh, it it and it it sounds like from a lot of these descriptions from whistleblowers, these um UAPs are looking at our military complexes, are looking at um our nuclear plants, are are being drawn to those kinds of things that have this kind of power. And and are they looking at to see if we're moving to the next step? And will that next step be something that puts us more in their arena? And if it does put us in that arena, do the kid gloves come off because now we're a threat. Just again, the ants. We're the ants in the backyard right now. Uh, when do we become the ants in the house?

SPEAKER_01 52:54

If you buy if you agree. If you buy the the the the extraterrestrial theory. And you know, there's also the like like I mentioned before, as technology advances, uh as as we are up in the the air more often, if there are natural explanations for that as well, it makes sense that we're gonna be seeing those more often. And we don't know everything about science. We I think it's very silly for us to assume that we know what everything that the universe entails. Uh, and so it could have a scientific explanation that we just don't understand yet. I mean, I guess extraterrestrials would be a scientific explanation that we don't understand yet, but it could be something else entirely.

SPEAKER_03 53:34

Well, and portals, right?

SPEAKER_01 53:36

Another dimension. Exactly. That's time travelers interdimensional. I mean, I know uh there are people who believe that these things that we see in the sky aren't extraterrestrial but extra-dimensional. Uh, and you know, there are other things that would be connected to that too.

SPEAKER_03 53:50

So, yeah, so potentially there's a whole different dimension here on the earth that we are not part of. There definitely is, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 53:57

I mean, we can't we can only move in three dimensions unless we go real fast and then we're able to start to manipulate time a little bit. But uh, you know, if if the universe it if there are other dimensions, it kind of makes sense that there are things that occupy it, in my opinion. But we are diverging from the history. We're we're starting to, yeah, what, huh? We're we're going to theories and we are hitting the we're now about to hit the juicy part because 1947 becomes the U, well, the the first year of the UFO era with two big old events that that kick off. Um, I know you probably want to talk about the second event.

SPEAKER_03 54:42

Yes, you go ahead and talk about the first event.

SPEAKER_01 54:44

So Kenneth Arnold uh is the first big event in June 1947. He he's the first person uh at the very least, first person interviewed and widely, I I believe it's probably the first person in general after the war to claim to have seen a uh a UFO. And it's from him that the term is coined flying saucer. Uh, I was gonna put the article in here, unfortunately. I I I forgot to because there were so many other things that I I I researched, but um, I don't think it sounds like from from what I've from what I've heard, from what I've read, also from what um our uh our producer said as well. Um uh was so smart. He was yeah, and he's very knowledgeable about these kinds of things. Um the the term flying saucer, he didn't try to describe the thing that he saw in the sky as a saucer. He was saying that's how it moved. Uh that it moved, it had saucer-like movements. But what he was sounds like was trying to potentially say, and I I need to, you know, this don't don't quote me on this necessarily. I haven't, like I said, I haven't read the article uh very in great detail. I kind of skimmed it. But um the he described it more as a uh metallic wing, essentially. And so uh whatever oh we have we we have uh research, we have proof coming up. Oh let's see. Okay, so there's a he oh, yeah, okay. So there's a picture that he that he has with it, and we'll we'll put this picture in the uh because I'm sure it's copy. It's not a copy, right? Um we'll we'll share this picture, but it looks like it looks like wing, it looks like a boomerang almost.

SPEAKER_03 56:42

It it does, and you know what's interesting when we talked about that early the shields from a long, long, long time ago, and the sails. And the sails, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 56:53

It's very, very interesting. That's that's what he tried to describe, but everyone who who heard it and read it thought, oh, a saucer? Like if you threw a plate in the air, that's that's how it that right, that's what it looks like. A little plate that has a teacup on it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. A saucer. A saucer. Yeah. Yeah. And so that's what we kind of came with. Um, but that was June 1947, and then literally a month later, July 1947, the big event happened, which was Roswell.

SPEAKER_03 57:28

Dun dun dun.

SPEAKER_01 57:29

So we're gonna both be talking about this. I'm gonna give the the official statement. And let me so because there are two official statements. One of them um the official and the official the the official at the time and the official now.

SPEAKER_03 57:43

And wasn't there an official the day of and the official the day of the?

SPEAKER_01 57:46

Well, so so there, I guess technically three. So there are three officials official statements. So what the the military reported in Roswell on July 1947, debris was collected by the United States Air Force. Something crashed into the sky outside of Roswell. It crashed from the sky into the ground. From the sky into the ground. Yeah, yes, thank you. Um, and personnel announced, uh, military personnel announced they were in possession of a flying disc, which also I think cemented the flying saucer imagery because it was now a disc. Now that that was the first official statement. However, and people saw it in Roswell.

SPEAKER_03 58:32

So they couldn't not say something. Right.

SPEAKER_01 58:34

Yeah, because there were a bunch of mil, there were a lot of military people who came in, there was debris on the ground. Um, so that claim was retracted within a day.

SPEAKER_03 58:43

We didn't mean to say that.

SPEAKER_01 58:44

Yeah, that was oops, yeah. We there wasn't a don't don't disc. We meant uh what did we mean? Uh later it was reported they had a balloon, specifically a weather balloon. Because that's kind of like a disc, but fluffy. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, and there are different kinds of balloons, and there are weather balloons, and you know, actually one of the big things later on, as we'll see uh when the the UAP stuff kind of comes back up, is that you know, for instance, uh Chinese uh the Chin the Chinese government had a uh weather balloon in our airspace for a long, long time. A long time. Uh, but you know, it wasn't talked about because that's a UAP. We don't talk about those. And then oh, we should probably talk about that. We should probably get rid of it.

SPEAKER_03 59:33

But um because everybody was seeing it exactly.

SPEAKER_01 59:35

So that was the that was a statement back then, and now the the the third official statement is that it was still technically a balloon, but it was a top secret Project Mogul balloon. It was Project Mogul. Um, and so uh I don't I don't know exactly, I don't remember I didn't research specifically what mogul is. Uh all I know that that's a freaking awesome name. That is a super cool name. I dig it. I will do more research into that, but that's not what we're talking about. Um so that's those are the three official statements.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:14

So from the documentary, um Age of Disclosure, they report that um a uh alien extraterrestrial spaceship that was horseshoe, horseshoe shaped, that had like hieroglyphics, ruins or whatever you want to call them on the ship and go and it broke in half. And they um that's bad luck, right? A horseshoe breaking half is bad luck. No, I I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:45

I'm sure I'm it should be.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:47

It's if it's upside down, the luck comes out of it. So breaking in so then what happens when it goes parallel? I uh it it it turns into a weather balloon. So anyway, it turns into mogul. A mogul weather balloon. So anyway, they said that it it will it they recovered it, but they also recovered four non-human biological entities with it. And so the bodies and the flying saucer remains were shipped to Wright Patterson. I think at that point it was just Wright Air Force Base, it wasn't Wright Patterson, you know, and it wasn't in the in the in the story yet. In the story yet, and so it was brought there and then uh so also in 1947, it's interesting because that's when like the CIA was created, and the CIA was kind of put over these this whole idea of UFOs.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:42

And we're gonna be seeing a lot of that as well. The the CIA and the DOD kind of uh bounced responsibility back and forth a lot when it comes to observing things in the sky.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:49

Exactly. And the CIA was working with um they're working with the Department of Energy because of you know radiation and nuclear energy and all that kind of stuff. They were working with the United States Air Force that actually has a special department, a special unit that is specifically for um picking up um and disposing of, I guess there's probably a better word, um, UAPs that have crashed to the ground. And then they also work with defense contractors. So a lot of these um, according to the documentary, the this uh these spaceships, these aircrafts, these interdimensional things, whatever they were, the defense contractors got to help reverse engineer them and uh got access to um pretty cool technology um via the United States government. The the cool thing about uh defense contractors is that if the United States government had only kept it, a Freedom of Information Act would have made them susceptible to giving out their information. But since a contractor has it, that information then is confidential.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:09

So and so essentially, even if everyone in the government agrees, hey, disclose all this, which that's no, no, not everyone in the government's all gonna agree. And if the government still has it, and as we know, there have been other right examples of of government programs. Um, you know, it you can't disclose something that you've lost or you've burned. Or you've put in another place, another cabinet that doesn't have to yeah. But even if all those things aren't the case, if the private sector has access to those files, then the private sector doesn't have to because they can just say, no, we're not going to release this. And so if the military at any time has worked with the private sector, which they have when it comes to these kinds of things, then even with all the information that we have, we can never fully get evidence to verify any of these claims, even if they exist.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:11

And somebody, and and I'll I'll go back and find out who. Uh, somebody said yesterday during the documentary that they actually purposely worked with contractors so that that information they they did it so the information could stay confidential and not be released to the public. So that was 19, that was the year it all started, 1947.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:33

And I'm trying to find, uh, I was kind of going through here because um, so Arrow talks about in in the report that I I look at, uh, and and I might not have have written it in here, and so I might um maybe next time. Yeah, I'll I'll go back because I don't think, but they did do specifically talk about Roswell and talk about what their findings are about these claims. And I I this is gonna be off the top of my head. This isn't written down, and so I it could be somewhat wrong. Um, so bear with me here. But essentially what they said is, especially when it comes to the to the non-human biologics that were transported away, specifically the the the human or not the human, the the non-human bodies that were that were carried away. Um I guess there were two other incidents where uh the two other crashes around the same time and maybe even the same location where uh um Air Force personnel crashed and there were bodies that were recovered from there, but they they were human bodies, obviously. And so what they're suggesting is that these um these I guess whistleblowers, these people who who claim to have have seen that, were confusing it with one of these two. Which I think is a very bold statement for anyone to make. Oh, you you thought no, you must be confusing uh this crash with the crash that we were pulling this tragedy where you know uh multiple pilots were were killed in the line of duty during whatever, and and yeah, that's that's what you're probably thinking about, and definitely, you know, not uh going back to the movie Independence Day, and you know, when he the plane crashes and Will Smith pulls the alien out and and he kicks it and it opens up and it shows all these tentacles and stuff, and it's like why wouldn't he mistake that for you know his buddy that he's known for 10 years?

SPEAKER_03 1:06:41

Right, exactly. Yeah, yeah. It's just like him. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:44

You know, they uh if if they are what uh what people in in media claim them to look like, which are like uh I think the grays are what media typically describes, which is you know, very tall, big eyes, and I don't know, I don't know if that's what they look like. To be frank, if they if if this does exist, if they do exist, I doubt that we actually know what they would look like in general. Um somebody does. Well, but not us. But not us. Uh and I would assume that nobody who actually knows will be able to tell, will be able to say.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:14

Well, and and okay, once again, documentary yesterday. Sure. They said that they they have found two very different types of non-human biologic. So I've heard that two different body types. So um, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:31

So uh which which could be you know two races from the same place or could be two, you know, different different planets. Yeah. Um or dimensions. Or dimensions.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:43

Uh I I made a I mean you've got E.T. and you've got Alf. Totally different.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:48

Yeah, Yoda. You got Yoda. Yeah, which I guess he he and and E.T. share the same they're they're in the same universe. Because E.T. was in uh the ET race was in the Phantom Menace.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:00

Oh Star Wars. I don't think I knew that. Yeah. Well, yeah, there you go. Okay, and so let's throw in Wookiees. I mean, obviously they're in the same one, but they're cute.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:12

You're welcome.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:13

You're thank you. Okay, so so you go ahead and go talk about more of the more contemporary history.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:19

As I was looking for things, I kind of messed up some of my notes. So we'll see. I hopefully, hopefully, this goes well. I did also the same thing where I didn't put the my my numbers, and so this will be interesting. But um, so but I think the big takeaway with the Roswell event, the big takeaway is that because of the whether it was the the misspeaking of the government official before, or whether it was the cover-up afterwards, whichever the case.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:53

Or we have military people who can't tell the difference between between a disc and a balloon and an alien and their buddy. Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:01

Whatever the case, the American people began to distrust the government, especially and and this was also during that time as well, where there was uh, you know, I mean the 1950s is very that's that's where a lot of the American distrust of of our own government really starts and heightens anyway. And it's only gotten kind of worse since then. Yep. But that's where a lot of that mistrust, specifically when it comes to these events of transparency, that's where it really starts. Yeah. Uh we don't trust them to tell us the full information about the things that are in the sky.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:39

Well, part of it is because they're saying don't believe your own eyes. Right. You know, because there are people in Roswell, you know, regular folks who who saw something coming down and they knew it was not a weather balloon. It's like, well, don't believe your lying eyes. Right. It's a weather balloon.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:55

And also, I mean, it's it's interesting as I've kind of looked at some of the uh some of the things. Um it's very dismissive, I think. Yeah. It's like, oh no, definitely, yeah. Uh especially a lot of the earlier programs, uh, and we're we're gonna talk about all the different programs, uh, but a lot of the earlier US programs that were designed to examine UFOs, uh they were very there was a strong bias against you had to you had to basically say, no, there's no way this could be extraterrestrial, let's let's debunk it another way. It's going in there without with with the hypothesis and trying to find the facts to validate it, as opposed to finding the facts that, yeah, and then deciding which which answers is the is the best. Um, but so the the first project, and this is all based off of Aero's uh official report from 2024. A Aero. AARO. Mm-hmm. Um A Row. Uh the the first one began in 1946, 1947, around the time of Waswell, uh Roswell, Waswell, called Project Saucer. Um, and it went from somewhere around 1946, 1947 to January 1948.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:16

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:17

Um, so what it was, it was an early and kind of badly documented uh US Air Force effort to collect and evaluate UFO reports for potential national security relevance, which quickly rolled into a more formal program. So it was the predecessor to things later on. Um so uh an account says that national, uh sorry, that Nathan uh Twining, Twining, uh, I think Twining, uh, which who was then the commander of the Air Technical Services Command, uh basically said that there was a uh a national security concern. Um yeah, okay. Yeah, so he he established it on December 30th, 1947, specifically to collect and evaluate UFO citing information that might matter to national security. Um but even though that's what one account says, it's kind of muddy because the reports knows that founding that the founding date uh and even the official versus unofficial name are unclear. Uh, and an interview someone tied to the project sign, which was later what what saucer later became, um claimed that it might have started earlier in 1946 with saucer as an informal label, which is very interesting because 1946 was before the big boom and before Roswell and before all that stuff.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:46

But they had World War II where they were there was the obvious there were there were sightings there too fighters.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:51

You're right, you're right. Um let's see, they investigated the famous report by by Kenneth Arnold near Mount Rayner. That's where that's where it took place. Uh Mount Raynor. Uh nine objects formation flying clipping um and the estimation uh of 1,700 miles per hour with the tail of a Chinese kite motion description. So basically that's that's what he described it. It moved like a uh a Chinese kite, and he said he estimated it to be about uh 1700 miles per hour. Um uh and also he, I guess it was nine uh nine objects. Um but it ended uh it it it then transformed into the official um this is kind of like a ghost program that transformed into the official project, which was Project Sign, which operated from January 1948 to February 1949. Uh Project Sign uh was the first official high priority successor to Saucer uh run under Air Technical Intelligence Center, tasked with deciding whether UFO reports pointed to foreign technology, specifically Soviet Union, or something extraplanetary. Um so there were two kind of thoughts. Like I said, it was the two big things they were trying to decide is whether the Soviets had a secret weapon that that was going fast, and that that's what these reports were were showing. Uh, which makes sense because you know the military would be very invested in the protection of of of you know the the USA. Or if it was something extraplanetary. Um let's see, they treat it like an Intel problem. So uh sign staff reviewed existing military intel on German weapons and aeronautics to see if they could have been captured or inherited by the Soviets. So there was a lot of digging into past, you know, especially I the Nazis were were at the time very technologically advanced. Um to this day, I think we can say that they're very technologically advanced still. Uh German engineering is is, you know, amazing. And uh and so there were a lot of there was a lot of digging into those records to see if the Russians might have somehow reverse engineered something over there. They weren't able to find evidence of of something the Germans had access to that would match those uh descriptions of the various UFO things. Um and uh let's see. Uh so it's it evaluated 200 243 reported sightings.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:39

Oh, and it was only around for like a a year or so. Yep, so 240 sightings in one year.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:46

Yep, yep. Let's see, uh what's let me double check and make sure that it's okay that's yeah, yeah. So uh 1948 to 1940, yeah, yep, January, yeah. Literal um a a month, a year and a month.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:02

So that's 13, that's 13 months.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:04

So 1947 or in in those 40s, 1940s to 1950s was uh kind of a a high time for a lot of UFO sightings. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:15

Um let's see. Uh most cases were attributed to misinterpretation of known objects plus hysteria, hallucination, or hoax. Okay, of course. Uh no definitive proof to disprove these objects as real aircraft of unknown or unconventional configurations, all that fun stuff. Um and people weren't used to seeing planes in the sky at this point. No, no. And there was a lot of um researching and testing of advanced aircraft as well by the US government. Right. And so, you know, a lot of these things could very well be explainable.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:50

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:51

Um but so here's the fun thing about why they stopped. Um they were there were some people in there. Let's see, let me double check and make sure. Okay, yes, yeah. So there was a a widely repeated, though they say obstantiated claim. Substantiated or unsubstantiated claim. Yes, unsubstantiated claim, uh, which essentially uh apparently came from a single source, um, that in late July of 1948, uh a sign staff member drafted an estimate of the situation, arguing at least some UFOs were interplanetary.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:35

How dare they?

SPEAKER_01 1:17:36

And then they they tried to to go. And it as it went up the ranks, someone saw it, someone higher up in the government. I don't remember exactly who it was, but somebody, uh the the memo, uh an internal memo swung for interplanetary and got smacked down because we don't like hearing that kind of stuff. Exactly. And so that's one of the alleged reasons. Well, that's that's one of the uh hypothesized reasons that it it ended. Okay. But for whatever reason, it ended. Um, yeah, cited as a possible reason. Uh the United States Department of Defense and the Pentagon leadership lost confidence in this project, uh, which some accounts connect to the next program, which is Project Grudge. Which makes sense because they all had a grudge on the guy that wrote the honestly, the very fitting name because it be it Project Grudge. Project Grudge. That's where a lot of I think, especially people who are very into UFOs and studying UFOs, I think that's where a lot of them start to have issue with the US government's handling of UFOs, even if they don't realize it. Right.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:49

Um, so grudge was Which only a year less than a year long.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:55

Yep, yep. There was also from February to December 1949. Um, yeah, so they reorganized and then they didn't stick around for very long, probably because they didn't think they needed to. Because so here, so it was a reset, it was organizational reset. Um, but there was an internal personnel shift. The staff, especially those leaning who uh leaning towards interplanetary or who even thought it could potentially be interplanetary, were reportedly purged. Everyone who thought it could be, they were gone. There's there's no way it can be interplanetary. Don't even, you know. And so that also, I think, with with we see it even still today, in the US military, uh, there is a there is a stigma against uh even saying that they s that you see something in the sky that is that you can't fully explain.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:51

Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:52

Uh it I think I think the stigma is starting to go away, but this is really where it started because people, you know, the the fear literally was I can lose my job if I even uh start to think that something I saw in the sky might not be from this world, which is insane to me, because you know, at the very least, I think it's it's not unhealthy to keep an open mind about anything is potentially possible.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:21

And and I obviously I get it, and I think it was wrong that they did this, but but here you have, you know, if you you think about it, this is not even quite 1950. Right. And right, uh right before 1950. 40 years ago, we're not even flying.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:41

And and so we're not in space yet. We're yeah, we can't even we uh can't even comprehend it. And and I don't even think that and and m maybe because the fighter do we have jets?

SPEAKER_01 1:20:54

The the the fighter we have we have uh um uh I don't want to say entry-level jets, but we have early, early, early jets.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:05

And and they could fly, I mean you still had pilots who could go to a certain level in the atmosphere, but not very too much higher because they would lose oxygen. And so so the idea of something coming out of space was like so crazy. And and for us right now, where you know, we've got the um Okay, now I I I'm having a senior moment. Oh the the satellite, the spaceship that we have up there that just sits up there and we go and visit it.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:41

Uh the International Space Station.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:44

I mean, think about that. We have an international space station. It's a Howard Johnson in the sky. We don't have Howard Johnson's anymore.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:52

It's a it's it's it's I don't know who Howard Johnson is, but he seemed like a cool dude.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:58

That was um it was a a well-known um hotel motel where people uh along when you took you like Route 66, gotcha, you could stop at Howard Johnson. So it's a Marriott. It's like a Marriott.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:11

Yeah, a Marriott in the sky.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:12

In the sky. That that people from different international, I mean different comes come up there and and and we have, you know, when their planes don't work, you know, car breaks down, we have Elon Musk, you know, sending his stuff up there.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:27

And we have technology now that we don't just launch things into space. Again, this is another Elon Musk thing, but but now, you know, we we have been able to program it to land as well, which is wild. I mean, that's that's something that we can park it. Yeah, exactly. Right. And so hypothetically, uh we we have I won't say we have the technology, but I will say hypothetically, we are beginning to have the technology that we can not only because you know the the the first space shuttle. Yeah, um, it's a one-way thing, you know.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:59

When you when you land, it I won't say it's two ways, up and down. Right, right.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:03

Up down is like yeah, it you you're not using it anymore. You can't use you can't use a space shuttle anymore. We're getting closer to the idea that we can actually reuse. Yeah, reuse a a a spaceship. Right, we can land it.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:16

Elon Musk has reused. I'm I I could be wrong.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:19

We're also starting to tap a little bit, very little, into um uh not fusion, uh the a step above fusion.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:27

Okay, that you're gonna go out of my range for the range.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:30

That's fair. I don't remember it either.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:31

I remember here are these people in the 50s, you know, and and TV is still black and white. Yeah, you know, you've got three channels, maybe, you know, and and we're talking about alien spaceships. So I understand it came from the sky. I know, right. Well, war of the war of the worlds, yeah. Because that was what in the 30s? 1930s.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:54

1930s, and HG Wells pranked everyone, the best prank in the history.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:59

Orson Wells.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:00

You're right. Orson HG Wells. Orson Wells. It was they were both Wells.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:06

Well, well, wells of deep literature. Anyway, so so I kind of get it. I kind of get while they're saying, don't even think that, because that's not possible.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:18

Well, and then on top of that, uh, this this Project Grudge was primarily, it sounds like, and and this was something that's heavily criticized in general, um, there was a lot of there was a pressure, pressure narrative. Okay. A lot of people at the top, the the Pentagon, everyone was was really pressuring everyone who was on Project Grudge to not only not say interplanetary, but find excuses, find reasons.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:45

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:46

They, you know, this even if you can't explain it, you can explain it.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:51

Yeah, explain it.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:52

You have to explain it, even if it doesn't make sense.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:54

So that one investigated 244 reports.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:56

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:57

And of course they found no evidence sightings represented. Yeah, yeah. I don't know exactly why they why they closed it. My guess is that because they did such a good job of debunking everything that they decided they didn't need to fund it anymore.

SPEAKER_04 1:25:09

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:10

Um, whatever the case, Project Twinkle began and it was very short-lived. It was it was from it was another year, summer 1949 to summer of 1950.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:20

So it overlapped grudge. Yes. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:23

Yeah, over because it was, it was a it was it was a project. It wasn't, it wasn't like the so these there were programs. This was a a project. Okay. So it was a short-lived US Air Force attempt to uh there, I guess there were a lot of reporting in the Nevada, New Mexico area and other places as well, right? That that reported seeing green fireball type anomalies in the in the sky. And so what the the U.S. Air Force attempted to do was instrument or or I guess record, try to examine these green fireball reports by uh photographing them so analysts could calculate speed, altitude, and timing. Um so yeah, so a cluster of of green fireballs within the Nevada, New Mexico area just um were described to be streaking across the sky and moving oddly. At least one account uh moving oddly. Moving oddly. I don't know what that means.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:18

I know I was gonna say how should they be moving if they're streaking across how would you suggest that a green ball in the sky move?

SPEAKER_01 1:26:26

That wouldn't be odd.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:28

That wouldn't be odd.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:29

Um so it's interesting. They planned to deploy multiple high uh multiple high-powered cameras near white sands so that it could um so that two images could triangulate key data, which was speed, altitude, and time. Okay. But it ended because Twinkle could only secure one camera. And it was frequently moved around chasing reports. So the Nintendo multi-camera setup, they could never do it. So they didn't do it because they found evidence. In fact, they did it because they're like, we can't do this. Man, there's too much, like we don't, we we're we're trying to set up the first camera and try to get the we they literally only had one camera, even though the project demanded that they have at least two. And so this is one of the first times, and we see this later on. Um, you know, this is one of the big big things, especially with Arrow. This was the first time that that they really pointed to to the lack of uh technology, okay, specifically uh equipment, right? The lack of necessary equipment to be able to do what they functionally need to do successfully. Um now, you know, we we like I said, now uh one of the big things is that Arrow is trying to focus on recording these UAP uh sightings through multiple sources. Uh that's why we're gonna see we see a lot of infrared camera things. Um that's and and they're trying to to look at infrared sensors as well as other sensors. Answers within the craft, as well as the the pilot's account. They're trying to find as many of these because unfortunately, a lot of times we only have the pilot's account because by the time they actually tell the story because they're afraid of you know losing their job, all of the data has been purged that might have recorded the rest of it. Or we only have one source of it and we can't really figure out what it is without multiple sources to verify it. Right. Yeah, so so Twinkle, like its name, was burned brightly and then died pretty quickly.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:34

It doesn't sound like it even burned very well.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:36

No. So that leads to the uh re-establishment of Project Grudge. Um, right after Twinkle, they they had stopped for a little bit, probably because they got by a PR because a lot of people were like, hey, you're like, there's a lot of bias against me, you know, saying things. I don't want to lose my job. So uh they restarted the project. Uh they called it Project Grudge again. Uh, but they big shifts that they had within the organization, uh, they they wanted to, they tried to enforce procedural objectivity, basically meaning anyone who in the staff that had uh too far anti or too far pro of alien research of of of interplanetary off-world origin in general, they were let go. So any only people who were kind of in the middle who that open mind, exactly. Exactly. Okay, um, but they also, this is the first time that with with a lot of this UFO organization, they they pulled in scientific expertise, they pulled people outside of the US government into it, uh, which through a a contract that was nicknamed that was dubbed Project Bear, um, which I think is a freaking awesome name. Uh but also dub bears. Dub Bears. Unfortunately, it wasn't in Chicago. Um, so that's not the reason why it's called Project Bear, probably. Um, and then they also, a big thing as well, they uh they allowed an unknown bucket. The previous grudge, it had to be explained. There has to be an explanation. Oh, okay. Now there doesn't have to be an explanation. So they could say, yeah, we just don't know. Exactly. Exactly. Hence unidentified. Right. You know? Um, they they don't have to do an answer. Let's see. It was for it was from October 51 to March 1952. Project Grudge, when it was reorganized, was really kind of uh a lead up into essentially Project Blue Book. There are a couple things that happened, uh, a few different CIA specific hearings and things that that were held before Project Blue Book, but Grudge essentially became Project. And that's something that, you know, we're kind of familiar with that Project Blue Book name. Right. Right. And so some of the things that um that led into this. So obviously, you know, Project Bear, um, this, you know, like like it said, it this was this was the science behind it. Everything else before was just military personnel. And so if there was a scientific explanation, not saying that they're, you know, they're obviously very they're very good at what they do, but what they do isn't necessarily evaluate science through the hype uh through the scientific method. Right. And so it's not what they're trained to do. And so, you know, now we have that. Um, and then later on, uh, so so this is one of the first things in 1952, one of the first things that kind of helped change Project Grudge to Project Blue Book that we're more familiar with is the CIA special study group, um, which was basically it was an internal scientific intel review team uh formed after the 1952 sightings surge, because I guess in 1952 there were a lot of, I mean, between in the 50s in general, but especially early 50s, there were a lot of sightings that happened. Uh, they were tasked with rechecking the Air Force's accumulated UFO case files and judging whether they pointed to a real national security threat.

SPEAKER_03 1:31:56

So now they're finally opening their eyes to the information that they have.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:00

And again, the big thing at the end of the day, especially because the 50s is is uh is not necessarily cold war time, but it's it oh, it is okay, okay. It is cold war time, yeah. Yeah, our yeah. So this is cold war time, which means you know, we're we're trying to not only evaluate to see if if there's a potential threat outside of this world, but also we need to know what is in our our our air, because if it's not from the US, if it's not from from you know USA, then it's somewhere else. And that's a threat. Um, which is, I mean, still the case to this day. This task force uh essentially came together, and for some reason, all the evidence that they had said, you know, there's there's nothing here to say that this is that there's any technology in the skies that are better than our technology in our skies, and also nothing is interplanetary. But for some reason during this, uh, this set off let's see, H. Marshall Chadwell in December 1952, where he pushed for action, arguing something needed immediate attention, especially high altitude, high speed unknowns near major defense installations. So something, even though, even though it was stated, oh, there's nothing. There's right, there is no war in Bossing Sei, which is a quote you don't get, but some of you I hope do. Um something set off these, you know, red flags, these these uh alarm bells. And so there were a few other panels and hearings, the Robertson panel happened, um, as well as you know.

SPEAKER_03 1:33:41

Can I add once again, we have UAPs or UFOs that are monitoring military areas.

SPEAKER_01 1:33:50

Yes, you know I mean that seems to be that that's the pattern, and that's probably why the official statement of of the CIA had to be at the very least, areas that civilians knew about. Right. There was nothing wrong. Because if they started talking about other, like, and this is also why we probably won't be getting some of the bigger, the, the, the crazier UFO sightings or sorry, UAP sightings that the government has access to, they are probably gonna, if this is the pattern, they'll most likely be located within areas that are heavily guarded. Okay. These are there these are places where you know if we saw what they were working for, I mean, we we would need to to sign some of these government NDAs, which a lot of these government NDAs, like I guess it's a standard thing that government NDAs are life. Right. It's like if you if you if you breach this NDA, it's a death penalty.

SPEAKER_03 1:34:51

So an NDA is a non-disclosure agreement. So basically you say, I'm not gonna talk about this.

SPEAKER_01 1:34:57

Right. And most NDAs aren't that that strict, but government NDAs, military NDAs, they are because it is national security. And so if you break your NDA, I mean it's treason, essentially. And so it is a forfeit of your life. Right, right, right, right. So the you had the the, like I said, the Robertson report and the Durant report, which we'll kind of gloss over a little bit because they're you know, they're all essentially saying the same thing. And then we go to Project Blue Book. And then we go to the fun thing. Project Blue Book, which was the United States Air Force's longest running official. At this time it was UFO investigation. Later on, the the language changes UAP, but that doesn't change until I believe the 2020s. Right. Um, because UFO, you know, there's a there's a a stigma against UFO. Uh so now it has to you have to change the verbiage. It's not an unidentified flying object. Now it's an unidentified aerial phenomena, which I guess is fair because it does offer more flexibility because it's aerial phenomena as opposed to just an object in the sky.

SPEAKER_03 1:36:00

And it sounds cool. Phenomena.

SPEAKER_01 1:36:03

Phenomena. Do do do do. Okay, so this is based at the Wright Patterson Air Force Base near Dayton, Ohio. Okay. Which we are already talked about a little bit, I think.

SPEAKER_03 1:36:14

We have the Roswell stuff there.

SPEAKER_01 1:36:15

Exactly. Yeah. Supposedly. Supposedly. Uh it was created to systematically study UFO reports and assess any national security implications. Now, this one has, I think, the best detailed categorization uh that we have seen to I I won't say to date because I don't necessarily know arrows categorization, but you know, it has very good, I think, since Project Grudge, it has incredibly good um um categorization. So the the blue book put cases into three buckets. So you have identified, we know what this is, it's fine. We have insufficient data, we want to know what this is. We have we have probable cause to think it might be this, but we can't be sure because we just don't have enough data and then unidentified, which is even with all the data that we have, we got no clue what this is. Okay. Um if the case when the case was identified, here were some common explanations. Include uh here were some common explanations. Astronomical, uh bright stars, planets, meteors, auroras, auroras, auroras, um, balloons, a lot of those, a lot of balloons.

SPEAKER_04 1:37:23

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:37:24

Um, aircraft slash afterburners.

SPEAKER_04 1:37:27

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:37:27

Um, and then also, you know, other miscellaneous things like reflections, searchlights, birds and kites, false radar returns, um, uh sensor issues. Okay. Uh fireworks, flares, you know, all those, and of course, hoaxes. It recorded This is wild. It recorded 12,618 UFO sightings across 1947 to 1969, which granted that is a 12,000? It's a lot of years.

SPEAKER_03 1:37:57

How many years is that?

SPEAKER_01 1:37:58

1947 to 1969.

SPEAKER_03 1:38:01

22 years and 14,000.

SPEAKER_01 1:38:03

12,000.

SPEAKER_03 1:38:04

12,000.

SPEAKER_01 1:38:05

12,618 UFO sightings. And 701 were categorized as unidentified and never solved. Arrow says reviewing the archive is tough due to the volume. 7,252 files, totaling six, sixty-five thousand seven hundred and seventy-eight digital records, mostly USA, uh US Air Force paperwork, clippings, and images. Sorry, images and clippings were very rare, but so a lot of it was just paperwork, but even still, there's a lot of stuff to sort through. Right. And so we're not going to be getting a lot of it because they're, I mean, that's probably why we haven't heard too, too much from them, because they are so busy going back and retroactively examining Project Blue Book. But Blue Book determined that no investigated UFO indicated a national security threat. They also indicated that no UFO sighting was interplanetary either. It found no case representing technological or scientific advances outside a terrestrial framework. The next thing that I have here uh is actually kind of why, unfortunately, Project Blue Book was terminated, which is the uh Condone report, the Condon Report. Condon report? Yeah, I don't know exactly how it's how it's pronounced.

SPEAKER_03 1:39:24

I think Condon's probably right.

SPEAKER_01 1:39:25

Condon. Okay. So the Condon Report, uh, which was an 18-month University of Colorado study led by physicist Edward U. Condon, hence the name. Okay. Uh, but he was under uh uh US Air Force contract. Well, he was asked a very narrow question. The question was, does UFO research merit formal scientific study? Um, and this, you know, whether it's it's academically government sponsored or even studying in schools, does it does it merit scientific study, not whether UFOs possess a national security threat. It's just should these be looked at, should these be studied? Not even asking the national security threat. It closely examined 59 case studies as part of this effort. And it looked at whether uh looked at a handful of physical evidence claims, uh, which included ground imprints, residues like white powder and angel hair and metallic debris. Okay. Um, and including cases said to originate in Brazil, Norway, and Washington, D.C. It looked all over the world to examine, you know, what what uh what scientific research would would do to help with our understanding of these things. The bottom line, the the conclusion is that nothing from 21 years of study had added to scientific knowledge. That's what that's what they concluded. Further extensive study likely couldn't be justified on the expectation it wouldn't advance science. Looking into the sky and seeing what strange things are in there and and why they can be explained, that won't further science. That's what this, that's what the study concluded. Good grief. Let's see.

SPEAKER_03 1:41:03

Uh Did they let him go to write Patterson and see the stuff that they picked up from Roswell?

SPEAKER_01 1:41:08

Probably not. This was this, I mean, the this was a uh a physicist. This is a uh they were under contract, granted, but he was asked a very narrow question, and I'm guessing he wasn't allowed access to he he had specific cases that he was allowed. All right. Or at the very least, he had cases that he did look at. I don't know if those were cases that he was guided towards or that he found on his own. Whatever the case, he he I doubt that he had access to excuse me, if if there was debris that was picked up in Roswell and other locations as well, I doubt that the government would give him information for that because this is something that's gonna be published both internally but also externally.

SPEAKER_03 1:41:54

Freedom of intrigue information.

SPEAKER_01 1:41:56

Someone can see it. Exactly. And you know, even if the government let him do that, I'm sure the private sectors weren't going to. Um, and so so the the the big physical evidence claim here is that the the panel found no ordinary sorry, the the panel found ordinary explanations for the physical evidence cases it examined. All the angel hair, all of the the metallic debris, all that stuff. They said, yep, there's a rational explanation for all of these things that doesn't require more scientific evaluation.

SPEAKER_03 1:42:26

I'm not saying it's aliens, but it's aliens.

SPEAKER_01 1:42:28

I'm oh he literally said we're not saying it's aliens because it's not aliens. Because it's something else entirely. Yeah. Uh, and so that's kind of yeah, this he's basically said this isn't producing any new scientific understanding or technology or research. And so there's no reason to support or fund this. And so Project Blue Book kind of was it was cut. Okay. Um, which then there was a a long, uh decently long, let's see, because you your notes are are smaller than mine. So we got until 19.

SPEAKER_03 1:43:02

So Project Blue Book was from 52 to 69, so set that's 17 years. And so these a lot of these committees happened during the city. The London report was 1968, so just before 1969.

SPEAKER_01 1:43:12

So the next thing that we have is the 1977. Right. I'm sure because a lot of people, so at this one, I know because I thought this was hilarious. So, so a lot of people were asking about, you know, hey, why isn't the government or somebody, some scientific group of people, right? Why aren't they looking at all of these different sightings that we're reporting in the sky? And so the Carter administration went to NASA and said, Hey, this is in the 70s. This was, you know, they were building the shuttle at the time and everything. This is 1977. And they said, Hey, could uh uh could you guys um could you guys look at the sky for us? Could you could you examine uh UFO sightings? Because like we got our hands filled right now with, you know, uh the the I what was what was going on militarily in nine in the 70s? Um what American military conflict? That's where we're what American military conflict.

SPEAKER_03 1:44:06

So we were already military uh out of Vietnam by then. Um but just recently out of Vietnam. I mean, it kind of trap.

SPEAKER_01 1:44:17

Yeah, so 1977 the US was not engaged in any major direct wars. Right. Excuse me. It had just gotten out of so they're right now the 1977, they're dealing with the aftermath of the Vietnam War. Right. And also engaging in indirect proxy conflicts. Um key issues included the Cold War rivalry with the Horn uh in the Horn of Africa. Um so we were kind of there during the Agadin War, um, as well as still, you know, Cold War things and all that stuff. So we were dealing with a lot of the, you know, we're we're still fighting communism, essentially. I mean, that's what the Vietnam War was basically about, um, and a lot of those kinds of things. But, you know, especially since there was kind of the the Vietnam War well had a very negative impact on people's outlook of the military. I'm sure military personnel uh dropped. You know, they didn't have as many people coming to the military at that point in time. Even if they had the funds, they probably didn't have the people to look into the skies. And so the Carter administration said, Hey NASA, I know you guys are like kind of busy with all the, you know, trying to get into space and all that stuff, but uh, could you look at our skies? And NASA formally, kindly said no.

SPEAKER_03 1:45:29

Interesting.

SPEAKER_01 1:45:30

And that's it. And I'm guessing they said no because of the the different panels and things, especially the the um the Condon. The Condon report and all the other kinds of uh of reports and things like that. Basically, NASA looked at it and said, okay, all these people in in the in the the 60s, in the late 60s, they said that it's not gonna serve us any scientific stuff. We're busy right now uh in our own right. We have a lot of our people are are you know so no, we're not gonna look at the sky. And so literally nothing from the from the military, no official records were um about any kind of organizations happened uh from 1977 until 1992 when the uh Clinton administration looked into the Roswell investigations, and I'm sure those were very unbiased because you know the military's looking into the military. So I mean, you know, the government's looking to the government, they're gonna open that, open that closet, there's packed full of skeletons, they're gonna look back at the camera and go, We got nothing in here. Nothing. There's there's nothing, and they're gonna close it and lock it again. But you know.

SPEAKER_03 1:46:44

Okay, so even though the military wasn't doing anything, the government wasn't doing too anything. I actually had You were doing stuff. I was doing stuff. So in 1987, uh, my husband was a scout master for the Boy Scouts of America.

SPEAKER_01 1:46:58

That's my dad, by the way, for anyone who's uh who's out there who's you know keeping score. Keeping track here.

SPEAKER_03 1:47:03

And uh he took his troop up to Boy Scout camp in in northern Wisconsin. I think it was Mikajowan was the was the camp name. And and because um we were a young family, so he basically was using up his entire work vacation to go to Boy Scout camp. And so we decided, uh at that time there was four children in the family. We decided to go to Boy Scout Camp too, but they had a family camp that was um adjacent to Makajewan. And um, so um he was spending all of this time with the troupe. And I had um four children under the age of nine with me, including a seven-month-old baby. And so we were in this little cabin, and I think it was like a one-room cabin, and it had uh two beds and little kitchenette area. And I remember um specifically there was um a radio on a shelf uh up high, and it, you know, it was probably that those that ugly yellow, you know, the ugly yellow color with the big dial in it. And I'm sure it just got AM because there was nothing up there. We were in the in the North Woods, but our cabin was kind of set away from the other family cabins, and we had kind of brush surrounding ours, and then we were right up against the lake that was there.

SPEAKER_01 1:48:28

And so um you know, I have to say that was spring lake, right? I think so.

SPEAKER_03 1:48:34

I believe it was spring. No, you know what? It could have been Pearson Lake as I'm I'm looking at it.

SPEAKER_01 1:48:39

But so Okay, but it was it with that lake in um yeah, yeah, and uh it was right alongside Mikajwa. That's what it is.

SPEAKER_03 1:48:47

Um so kids go to bed and um I'm I'm up and I'm feeling really uncomfortable, like spidey sense, uncomfortable, you know, and and so um and it felt like there was something lurking outside the door. And you know what? Thank goodness I didn't know about dogmen and uh Bigfoot back then, because that would have freaked me out.

SPEAKER_01 1:49:16

But I mean it's not yeah, that that uh it's similar to that area that the the Beast de Bray Road and all that fun stuff.

SPEAKER_03 1:49:23

No, it no, we were much further north. Okay, so it's closer to the yeah, the the dogmen and big game. Yes, and so um so basically, you know, you feel like there's something right outside the door. But I've seen those movies. I don't go outside the door. I I stay in, and and I think because of the brush, we really didn't have windows that I could look out or windows that would show me anything. And so I just kind of stayed there watching over my kids, and it was interesting watching the kids sleep because they were tossing and turning, their pillows were on the floor. You could see they were having, even though we're sleeping through it, they had a really restless night. So um finally when dawn started to rise and the sun started to rise, I finally went to sleep. And so I got a couple hours' sleep before the kids, you know, got up. And so that morning I'm making breakfast in the cabin and I have the little radio on, and it's local radio. And um they have the sheriff's report, you know, and and um the sheriff's report said last night a number of residents and law enforcement officials witnessed a UFO over Spring Lake. You're right, it was Spring Lake. Called it. Our cabin was only a few yards away from the lake.

SPEAKER_01 1:50:40

So now, so then I decided it's a good thing you couldn't see outside because you you probably would have I know, you know. Some people say that if you can't sleep, it's because like a full moon or something. You had a full UFO.

SPEAKER_03 1:50:51

I had a full UFO. Uh right outside my cabin. So so I researched UFOs in 1987, the summer of 1987, and I discovered that there was a flurry of UFO sightings that year. The Bristol Bristol Herald, I'm sorry, Bristol Herald Courier did an article about it in 2017. It said this fall will be the 30th anniversary of the wave of UFO sightings near Wyattville, Virginia in 1987, when scores of people reported various strange lights in the sky.

SPEAKER_01 1:51:24

Um I think it's interesting because it's 87. Right. And Roswell and all that stuff happened literally 20 years before because it's 47. It's the end of the year. You're right, 40 years. I can do math, guys.

SPEAKER_03 1:51:39

But you don't have to do math.

SPEAKER_01 1:51:40

Yeah, yeah. Look, I'm I'm very good at it at certain I was very good at certain subjects in school, not uh not others. But yeah, no, 40 years It's a 40-year anniversary, right?

SPEAKER_03 1:51:49

Yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:51:50

I mean, yeah, that's if it was in July, especially like June, July, that's that's very interesting.

SPEAKER_03 1:51:55

It says the Wyath country Wyath County Sheriff Wayne Pike told the the public in October 87 that four of his deputies, including some with military experience, had witnessed a UFO, and that's when the floodgates were open. In the following months, well into 1988, a wave of people reported seeing strange lights and objects in the sky. Um, Danny Gordon, then the news director of radio station WYVE, also reported seeing a strange craft. A news conference in mid-October drew national attention by the following year. Gordon personally received more than 3,000 reports, according to the news reports. Paul Dillinger worked for a reporter for the Roanoke Times for more than 40 years, covering counties in southwest Virginia out of the paper's Whitesville office. After Gordon's first radio story, Dillinger began reporting the events, like when Sheriff Pike said some of his deputies saw strange objects in the sky. All of a sudden, Dillinger said, everybody started seeing things. Gordon and Dillinger started working together. Gordon had claimed, had had people who claimed to have witnessed UFOs on his radio show, and then Dillinger was there to take notes. Uh Dillinger said there were some strange lights in the sky. He even saw something one something odd one night. He said I was driving home at night and saw a light at the end of our road that looked like a street light, but like a skintillating light. He said the light came down very slowly over the road and moved at the speed of a balloon. He also described hearing a very quiet motor. Um, so he said a reporter from the National Inquirer came to look into the reports, yeah, but left without a story because it wasn't sensational enough.

SPEAKER_01 1:53:46

Oh yeah, all these all these lights in the skies, that's not sensational. Unfortunately, what is it's it isn't.

SPEAKER_03 1:53:52

Um so they Gordon and Dillinger ended up writing a book uh about the ordeal called Don't Look Up the Real Story Behind the Virginia UFO sightings.

SPEAKER_01 1:54:02

For the 1987 Right.

SPEAKER_03 1:54:05

Yes. New England Today did an article about UFO sightings, including one by a commercial airline pilot on May 26, 1987. Commercial airline pilot Randy Edding took a nighttime walk during um near his home in Connecticut, Newtown, Connecticut. He often studied the skies when he walked, trying to identify passing planes. At about 9 45 What a nerd. I know. Well, as a pilot, they do that.

SPEAKER_01 1:54:31

Oh yeah, pilots are super obsessed with pilot things.

SPEAKER_03 1:54:36

He said at 9 45, he observed some orange and red lights approaching from the west. He got his binoculars and called his neighbors to come outside. Eddings said that as the UFO passed over Interstate 84, cars pulled over to watch. And indeed, between 9 30 and 10 15 p.m., more than 200 people phoned the police to report this UFO. The object displayed a semicircular pattern of very bright multicolored lights. Several drivers reported that their cars had lost power as the lights passed by. Oh, interesting. It's like uh close encounters, isn't that? Do do do do. And then the about 15 minutes later, calls started coming in from New Milford, which was about 14 miles north, alerting authorities that the lights, reported by many to be connected to an object larger than a football field, were hovering there. The lights eventually vanished, but the mystery remains. Okay, and so this is my favorite 1987. This is uh from a uh website called the Black Vault. And this was in Modesto, California in August of 1987. Okay. So this this remind me is Modesto, is that Northern or something like that? I think that's Northern California, but I I don't know. You look while I read. Yes. On or about August 3rd of 1987, my husband, my child, and myself were camping at a lake outside of Modesto, California. We were in an area where there were no other campers. My son was asleep in the camper, and my husband and I were sitting on the picnic table talking. We were not under the influence of alcohol or drugs of any kind. My husband pointed out to me these small dots in the sky. I'm remembering about five of them. They kept approaching until they were darting around over the lake, quite close to us. Don't stay by lakes. They look like tiny little aircraft.

SPEAKER_01 1:56:32

There are a lot of UFO sightings above the lakes.

SPEAKER_03 1:56:36

Then a huge ship came over the water and just stopped and hovered there. I'd say no further than a football field length away from us. We could see it quite clear. Silver, windows that circled around it like a narrow belt, not quite round, a little oval. It made no noise, but sat motionless in the sky in front of us for about 20 minutes. The smaller ones just flew around in the vicinity. It shone bright lights on us the entire time. We were mesmerized but not fearful. Okay, I would have been fearful.

SPEAKER_01 1:57:12

I would have been both memorized, uh mesmerized and fearful. But so that's that's an interesting thing because a lot of UFO sightings, especially close encounters of UFOs, often have that almost fog or haze element to it. They look at this thing and they should be terrified of it. But for some reason, it it just doesn't compute. They're just looking at it. It could be shock, it could be uh there's you know there's a little voice underneath that's saying, shh, be quiet. Kind of, kind of, whether that's like the the the technology radiating off of this thing or or whatever. Right. But something psychologically makes people not be as afraid as humans. Yeah, yes, yeah, almost hypnotizes right, yes, yes, yes.

SPEAKER_03 1:57:54

Um, okay. We couldn't believe what we were seeing. Then we heard the Air Force jets coming from behind us. About the time we heard them, the small ships just disappeared and the large one took off at an incredible speed from a standstill. The jets were no match, but they followed it. The next morning still just I yes. That's that's not how that's not how aircraft travel is supposed to work. I'm but again in that documentary, which we'll talk about next time, they talk about that.

SPEAKER_01 1:58:26

Oh yeah, oh yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:58:27

So the next morning I woke up very ill. I was covered in black pepper looking spots. I had a high fever. My spots turned into sores and all of my hair fell out. My illness lasted for about a year and a half. Sadly, my husband was killed in an accident just a few days after the sighting. He was showing signs of sores on his face, but died before we knew if he would get sick, like I did. My son was inside the camper and not in the light like we were. I did not see any reason to report the incident since the Air Force was on the scene. So, um, and then finally, this was a sighted reporting on the new national UFO reporting page from June of 1987. 4 45 a.m. while going to work, had the camera with me, noticed a very bright and pulsating object headed straight for me. All this happened in about no more than 30 seconds, but I did catch the last five seconds on film that I'm sending you. When played in slow motion, it gets very interesting. Do we have uh that I I might be able to find that video? It says, uh, and then this is the the the this is the reporting. Hello, Mr. Davenport. This is in regards to our phone conversation on May 14th, 1999. As I explained to you about the videotape I have of a very unusual object I videotaped in the summer of eight, nineteen eighty-seven. I was videotaping a paper machine rebuild.

SPEAKER_01 2:00:03

It's a V UFO, a very uh unusual flying object. Sorry, go ahead.

SPEAKER_03 2:00:09

Um I was videotaping a paper machine rebuild where I worked at the time. This was the reason I had my video camera with me. As I was going to work early that morning, it was crystal clear in about 4 45 a.m. I was walking out my door with my video camera in the case. From my doorway, looking straight west, roughly five miles, there is a large hill we call Irma Hill, known for the small village on the rest west side of the hill. From my location, I had a very excellent view to the western horizon with the hill slightly outlining it, the outlining the horizon. Sounds gorgeous. Yeah, as I was closing the door to lock it, I noticed a very bright shining object directly over Irma Hill, coming directly towards me. It was round and very bright and pulsating. I knew right away it was not a star, planet, or plane. When I was younger, I was into astronomy, had my own telescope, and was familiar with the nightly skies.

SPEAKER_00 2:01:04

What a nerd.

SPEAKER_03 2:01:05

It was much brighter than the planet Venus at its brightest point and at its dimmest point of pulsation, hardly visible. I stared in almost disbelief restfully three or four seconds, then realizing, duh, I had my video camera with me. I quickly, quickly as possible, bent down and opened the case, grabbing my camera and pulling the lens cover off. Very smart, because I have been known to not pull the lens cover off.

SPEAKER_01 2:01:29

We've all done it.

SPEAKER_03 2:01:30

Turning the power on, I would estimate this took no more than seven or eight seconds, being very familiar with my camera. So good.

SPEAKER_01 2:01:38

That's yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:01:39

I looked towards Irma Hill where I spotted the object, but no longer could see it anymore. I quickly looked straight up over me and spotted the object moving very fast in an easterly direction. I brought the camera up and found it in my viewfinder and caught it on tape as it went away from me and disappeared. I stood there in complete disbelief, asking myself, what the hell was that? It took no more than 20 to 30 seconds from the time I spotted it in the western horizon to disappear in about a 35 degree angle in the eastern horizon. When it was straight overhead, before I could get the camera to it, the brightness was almost shiny and chrome-like. There was absolutely no noise from the object. There was no wind, and it was one of those mornings it was perfectly dead quiet. The only thing you could hear was the early morning robins. I've had this tape all this time and over the years showed it to a few friends, but no one has really seen it yet. I wanted someone to look at it, but I didn't know where to send it until I heard you on the Art Bell show the other night when you mentioned the event west of Eagle River, Wisconsin, which is very close to where I was in 1987. Interesting. If you have any questions, please feel free to contact me by email or phone. You have my number there. Thank you very much for your time. Could you please let me know what you interpret on the tape? It gets very strange in slow motion and frame by frame.

SPEAKER_01 2:03:12

And that which because that wasn't the Modesto California one.

SPEAKER_03 2:03:16

This one, it was in Wisconsin.

SPEAKER_01 2:03:18

Okay. So the Modesto one, I I it's very interesting. Yes. Um so Modesto is kind of mid like central California. We are both right. Well, very so very close to to Stockton, California, to San Francisco. Where the airplane, where the airships were. Exactly. Uh it's very interesting that, you know, Modesto, I'm sure, I'm sure Modesto was part excuse me, was part of that airship phenomena. And then in 47, um they and wait.

SPEAKER_03 2:03:53

The airships were in like 1896. That would be Stockton one was 196 and 97.

SPEAKER_01 2:03:59

Right. So if it's because yeah, I I don't remember exactly which which one so that's a 90 year that would be for if it was like 97 and this is it's not it's not every 40 years or whatever, but I do think it's interesting that they all happen to take place around the sevens, the sixes and the sevens. Yeah. Which means, I mean, hypothetically, that means next year we might be getting some more UFO sightings potentially. But I think uh yeah, that's that's fascinating. Um that it happened around the the same place. At least the again, the Modesto one, which it also sounds like that specific experience. I I mean, I don't know about the sores and the and and those kinds of things, but the hair loss sounds very close to radiation. But uh the difference is that it it was it was almost like a temporary radiation poisoning because they it sounds like she got over it. Well, and if the hair fell out, but then she it grew back, like it sounds like the she didn't need to go in to do anything about it. She was able to recover, which generally isn't something that you do for the other thing.

SPEAKER_03 2:05:02

Well, I'm thinking pretty much when when you like have chemotherapy, which is radiation poisoning, basically. Fair. Um, you lose your hair, but then it does grow back after you finish whatever chemotherapy you have to do.

SPEAKER_01 2:05:15

I guess maybe if it was more of a wave of potentially a wave of radiation, right? But chemo. But even still, I've I mean, from I guess different people react to it different ways, but it you know, from other experiences that people have had from waves of of radiation, a lot of people develop cancer from it. And as so I think it's very interesting that we don't know what happened to her.

SPEAKER_03 2:05:34

And fair enough.

SPEAKER_01 2:05:35

I hopefully, hopefully she's fine. Yeah, she lived or is still living a long and happy life. Exactly. Um, but yeah, it's very fascinating. And and also the there's a lot of things that happen around lakes in the Midwest. Um, you know, Illinois, but most mostly Wisconsin and Michigan. Wisconsin is known for having a bunch of different lakes, uh, Michigan as well, especially the the the UP upper peninsula of of Michigan. Lot of sightings of unidentified things in the sky.

SPEAKER_03 2:06:04

Um so we're going to um good good thing we're doing this into two and maybe three parts.

SPEAKER_01 2:06:12

Probably only two at least for now. Um we yeah, we we stopped. We'll probably pick up uh going into the uh next time. Yeah, the 2000s where the the the Clinton administration looked into the Roswell um reports. We'll briefly talk about that, but then we'll start to go into the the 2000s up into this decade and then talk about some very recent events and kind of break some of those down as well. Um I'm sure a lot of people have done that already, but you know what? We're gonna do it too.

SPEAKER_03 2:06:46

Yeah, because this is interesting. Yeah, it's fascinating. It's fascinating, and and it again there are things out there and watching us. Yeah, I mean, potentially but okay, again, I remember that feeling that I had.

SPEAKER_01 2:07:04

And I'm so that's so I guess what I'm saying is potentially the government knows about these things. Okay. I do, I mean, look, I'm I I also believe that they're I think it's it's silly to believe that we're alone in the universe. Right. So I agree that they're uh whether or not they've come to this earth or whether or not, you know, whatever things that we've we've seen, experienced are interplanetary or something else, um, I don't know. But I do know that we're not alone on this planet, we're not alone in this universe, and I think that it's um I think that we should always, like I like I try to always do, keep our minds open to any possible explanation.

SPEAKER_03 2:07:44

Yeah. So let us know. Have you had any experiences? Um, what do you think about this stuff?

SPEAKER_01 2:07:49

Yeah. And uh what did I get wrong in my research? Let me know. They will. I don't need to uh I don't need to ask for that. They will. And the uh being around.

SPEAKER_03 2:07:57

What did we mispronounce?

SPEAKER_01 2:07:59

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 2:07:59

And uh yeah, but thanks for tuning in again, and we'll see you soon with part two.

SPEAKER_01 2:08:04

And always, always, always, if you have any stories of your own, please sh yeah, uh like you already said, please email us them, let us know. Um, of any kind. Uh we would love to share them.

SPEAKER_03 2:08:17

And keep your eyes to the sky, except like when you're walking, and then look down so you don't trip.

SPEAKER_01 2:08:21

Or when you're driving, don't do that either.

SPEAKER_03 2:08:23

Don't do that either. Okay, thanks. Bye.