A Brief History of UFOs and UAPs (Part Two)

Join us for Part 2 of A Brief History of UFOs and UAPs, where we discuss recent government disclosures and continue our discussion of the documentary "The Age of Disclosure."

New episodes released regularly.

Join Paranormal Mystery Author Terri Reid and researcher Andrew T. Reid as they explore ghosts, cryptids, alien encounters, and other unexplained mysteries.

If you'd like to share your opinion, thoughts, or your own paranormal experience with us, please contact us at vftattic@gmail.com. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_04 0:00

Kenneth Arnold, a six-foot, two hundred-pound flying Boise, Idaho businessman, was about the only person today who believed he saw nine mysterious objects, as big as four-engined airplanes, whizzing over western Washington at 1200 miles an hour. Army and civilian air experts either expressed polite incredulity or scoffed openly at Mr. Arnold's story. But the 32-year-old one-time my not North Dakota football star clung to a story of shiny, flat objects racing over the Cascade Mountains with a peculiar weaving motion, like the tail of a Chinese kite. A Washington, D.C. Army spokesman was quoted as saying, As far as we know, nothing flies that fast except a V-2 rocket, which travels at about 3,500 miles an hour. And that's too fast to be seen. He added that there were no high-speed experimental tests being made in the area where Mr. Arnold reported seeing the mysterious objects. The Boise man, who owns the great Western Fire Control Supply, which handled automatic firefighting systems, described the objects as flat, like a pipan and somewhat bat-shaped, and so shiny they reflected the sun like a mirror. He said the reflection was so brilliant that it blinded him. As if someone had started an arc light right in front of my eyes. Mr. Arnold reported he was flying east at 2.50 p.m. Tuesday toward Mount Rainair when the objects appeared directly in front of him, 25 to 30 miles away at about 10,000 feet altitude. By his plane's clock, he timed them at 142 minutes for the 50 miles between Mount Rainier and Mount Adams. He said he later figured their speed by triangulation at about 1,200 miles an hour. When first sighted, he thought the objects were snow geese. But geese don't fly that high. And anyway, what would geese be doing going south for this time of year? Next, he thought they were jet planes. He said he had heard so many stories of the speed of this type of craft traveled, so he determined to clock them. However, he quickly realized their motion was wrong for jet jobs. I guess I didn't know what they were, unless they were guided missiles, he said. Everyone says I'm nuts, he added ruefully. I guess I'd say it too if someone else reported those things. But I saw them and I watched them closely. It seems impossible, but there it is. Bill Baket, the East Ogonian. Listen closely as the old walls still speak. Some things are hidden, not to be forgotten, but to be kept.

SPEAKER_01 2:42

The old house remembers what others forget.

SPEAKER_04 2:46

What is remembered is most true.

SPEAKER_01 2:50

Listen closely, and you too may just hear Voices from the Attic.

SPEAKER_02 3:06

So hey! Welcome to the show.

SPEAKER_04 3:10

Welcome to Voices from the Attic.

SPEAKER_02 3:13

Yes. Hi, I'm Terry Reed. I'm an author. Um now a researcher, a finder of really interesting and uh what is the what is the term? Um trivial information.

SPEAKER_04 3:29

You pursuit trivial knowledge, uh trivial pursuit, if you will.

SPEAKER_02 3:32

Trivial pursuit, er, er, er, yes, and I'm funny. I'm and I'm Andrew's mom, and I'm gonna talk a little bit more so he can swallow. Go right ahead, Andrew.

SPEAKER_04 3:41

Thank you, thank you. I am Andrew T. Reed. I am a writer, researcher, um, YouTube editor, podcast editor now. Now, yeah, and a general big friendly neighborhood nerd.

SPEAKER_02 3:58

I like that. So uh today we're continuing as part two of the UAP. And and I have to say and UFO. And UFO. And and the reason you kind of caught me off guard was as you were doing the Mount Rainier open, which was way cool, um, Expedition X actually did something on Mount Rainier, and that was the first time they used this. This is what I was looking up, UFO data acquisition project. It's a multi-sensor tracking system designed to detect, track, and record UAPs or UFOs.

SPEAKER_04 4:32

Is this a civilian tracking system or is this a government tracking system?

SPEAKER_02 4:37

No, it's it's it was created by a scientist, but Josh Gates bought it and they have used it. A civilian. A civilian. And they have used it a number of times. Uh but the first time they used it was in Mount Rainier, pointing it up to this the sky.

SPEAKER_04 4:53

That's awesome. I I freaking love Josh Gates. Can I just I'm just gonna, yeah. He's if I would love to like meet him and you know, have I mean, it'd be great if he showed up on the podcast. That's very I've ambitious, I think, from for us right now. I mean, yeah. Hey, if you guys know Josh Gates or Josh Gates, if you're watching, email us. Hit us up.

SPEAKER_02 5:16

So this multi-sensor tracking system combines optical cameras, infrared uh FLIR imaging, motion tracking, and sometimes radiation or electromagnetic sensors. And it's kinda they they say it's an all-in-one UFO tracking rig because it can look at something going across the sky and it'll say, Oh no, that's a satellite, right? Or oh no, that's snow geese, or oh no, that's and it would then say, Yeah, I got nothing.

SPEAKER_04 5:46

They're basically doing what everyone wants the government and is hoping that Arrow specifically is gonna be doing, which we'll kind of be talking a little bit about. Because they I mean, unfortunately, it's I I'm gonna be very curious to see how they implement it because uh it's something that we've talked about is that unless you're always recording everything everywhere all the time, you're not gonna be able to find something because it you can't just set up a camera and go, all right, paranormal experiences or UFO sightings, go. You know, I mean that's it's gonna be very difficult to to record something because they they aren't they don't show up when you expect them.

SPEAKER_02 6:29

But places like there's places like Mount Rainier that they they studied. They also studied a place in South America, um and it was well known. It was out in like the Project region.

SPEAKER_04 6:42

Or not Project Saucer, Project Twinkle was what we talked about, you know, um last time. I think it was in New Mexico. I don't have to look at okay.

SPEAKER_02 6:50

This is actually South America, not Central America.

SPEAKER_04 6:53

Yeah, I know, I know, but I'm just saying that's also what what Project Yeah, this is yeah, I know.

SPEAKER_02 6:56

And then one that they did was really interesting, and I don't know if we're gonna get into the depths the nitty-gritties of it of this.

SPEAKER_04 7:03

Oh, the depths.

SPEAKER_02 7:04

Is this uh uh It was like in Baja, California, and they had that out there and they watched a UAP go from like space through the atmosphere right into the ocean.

SPEAKER_04 7:18

Yep, and and a lot of um I hope I hope when it hit the water it made a broop it it didn't make anything. Oh, no sounds.

SPEAKER_02 7:27

No, and that's that's the crazy thing. And and it in um I think I I mentioned last time um I watched the documentary called Age of Disclosure, and they were talk they were interviewing these physicists, quantum physicists, who who basically said, you know, they well actually one of the physicists was oh, what's his name? The guy from Skinwalker Ranch, the guy who has to yell when he talks, the red-headed guy with the crazy hair.

SPEAKER_04 7:54

I I haven't seen Skinwalker Ranch. I'm I'll be well, I've seen like one episode and it was a long time ago. Okay, though I did see them at Fan X.

SPEAKER_02 8:01

He he is from um, I believe he's from Alabama, and he's a physicist, and he's been on he's been on a lot of Discovery Channel shows. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 8:10

And so, but he was in Is he the guy with the hair, the aliens, the meme? Okay, he's got more brown hair, I thought.

SPEAKER_02 8:15

He's got reddish brown hair, but it he kind of crazy.

SPEAKER_04 8:18

It's like, yeah, it's like he's running his hands through his hair all the time. He kind of, yeah, I've seen it, I don't know if it's the same guy, but there's a guy with very wild frizzy hair, and he's got a meme where he's like this aliens. I mean, this is an Oh no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Not the ancient aliens guy, okay.

SPEAKER_02 8:35

This guy is a fairly good-looking man. He just has messy hair. And he is, um, I think he is from um Alabama, because Alabama has um one of the the space um Huntsville, Alabama. They have the um it's not NASA, but it's a space thing.

SPEAKER_04 8:59

Anyway, oh do they have a space program at Huntsville? Like the Alabama College in Huntsville.

SPEAKER_02 9:04

No, no, no, no. It's manufacture rockets. There you go.

SPEAKER_04 9:07

Oh, they manu they're rock rocket manufacturer.

SPEAKER_02 9:09

So he's a physicist who works for the government. Yeah. He he's a physicist that works for the government, and he has obviously southern accent, and when he talks, he he projects strongly. Anyway, so he was talking about watching this film where the it just right and it didn't bloop because it didn't make any noise. It just went right into the ocean. And he said at the speed that it was going, he said, I tried to figure out because this is what physicists do. Yeah, if I had a basketball and I was trying to throw it at that velocity into the ocean and to get it to go. And he said it was like he needed like four learjet engines attached to that basketball to get it into because of the gravity and the size. But that's hilarious.

SPEAKER_04 9:55

I love physicists where they're like, I see this amazing, unexplainable thing. And so I have to relate it to something that I understand better a basketball, sports, sports, which is also, I think, a very I mean, I guess Alabama is more football, but uh it's still a very, very Alabama thing to to go, ah, this amazing scientific experience me relate it to sports.

SPEAKER_02 10:18

But it's it's it it again, what this fellow saw at Mount Rainier, Mount Rainier is known for being very active. So it's it's a greater chance if you go out to some of these places that have a lot of activity constantly. And and I know we're gonna get into this, but but now recently they are showing much more activity, especially over our um army bases, um, over our nuclear plants and and places like that, like constant activity. And and again, we're gonna get into this, but it's this whole thing it's scary to know the disinformation that has been given to the people of the United States since 1947. Because I mean, talk about backwards PR. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 11:20

I guess maybe because the the hard thing is that we don't we don't officially know. I mean, we we don't know what we don't know, and we don't know what information, I mean we do know obviously the government is withholding information, and that's just I think a blatant just there are literally top secret projects that we are not ever gonna know. And so there is information being withheld from us for national security reasons and things like that, but we don't know what things the government is keeping from us when it comes to the unknown, unexplainable activity in our skies. Whether they do or do not know if it comes from because I mean the thing is they're all of the projects that they will that they have have all said that there is no evidence of things that come from extraterrestrial. Okay, so let me let me know. Well, well, we're gonna and we'll we'll be able to get into all that stuff.

SPEAKER_02 12:15

But I think I'm gonna counter that with some information that in ninth in 2024 there was a hearing, a house intelligence committee hearing.

SPEAKER_04 12:24

That is definitely, yeah, we're we will definitely be talking about that because they did say we know a witness, and that's the heart that's no, it's a bunch. Well, yeah, yes, but I guess what I mean is witnesses have, but the government officially has decided. So the legacy, yes. And that's that's one of the fun things we're gonna talk about. Because there are, you know, there there are specific the the government organizations are able to say, yes, members of our organization, you know, it's it's like it's like when uh I guess like podcasts or or you know, um uh before documentary, a lot of a lot of production companies will go, the views and opinions stated in this documentary uh do not reflect the views and opinions of Warner Brothers or whatever. Okay. And so the government can basically say, Yes, that is what members of our organization believe, but that is not the official stance of the US government. Because, you know. And which is still a very good way of ostracizing and discrediting those members of the government who've had those experiences.

SPEAKER_02 13:31

Well, and the members of the public. Yes. Who have had I mean, again, it's it it it for me, it's like ghost stories. You know, 20 years ago, 15 years ago, when you said I've seen a ghost, people would say, Yeah, right. What did you have to drink? And and but they only the best of stuff. That's right. The good stuff. And and now I I would classify people who have had experiences with um UFOs in that same thing. They totally discredit you, even though they knew since 1947. Encryptids and any other unextreme.

SPEAKER_04 14:07

Anything that isn't in the experience of the everyday person is something that most people, and I think that's just you know, kind of human nature. I didn't experience that, so you know that sounds a little crazy for a fish to me. When the government who has knowledge and who have have express like there there are people who and we don't talk about this, and so I'm okay with with, but we do. We eventually will need to dive into the actual content, but there have been um there was a researcher who who did a lot of research on crop circles specifically, okay, uh, and and UFO and all that stuff, and he got a a tip from somebody who was uh uh kind of in a higher official in the in the government. Right. And he got a lot of funding and everything, and he was very excited, only to realize when they came to the actual crop circle, it was kind of all set up to discredit him because it was a very hokey, very fake, and he had all of this amazing equipment to show how bad his information was. And you know, Bubba, get out there on the John Deere and make yourself a exactly, exactly. Except I I because crop circles are more of an English European We actually have them here in the United States too. I believe that, but I I think that they're called corn mazes.

SPEAKER_02 15:38

Sorry, no, we actually do have crop circles. Sorry, we do have crop circles, but you're right. It's it's more of a UK kind of thing.

SPEAKER_04 15:47

I don't know if he was I think it was a UK crop circle that he went to, but I think he was a an American researcher. But it was still kind of all set up to discredit him.

SPEAKER_02 15:57

Don't you ever uh feel like you're actually living in the X-files? You know, all of these things are hidden away, and we're trying to you're trying to expose them or you're trying to say, no, no, no, you're not, you're not crazy. This is this is real.

SPEAKER_04 16:11

Kind of. I except to me it feels more like it feels like a mixture of the X-Files and the Dresden Files. I like that. Yeah, yeah. And also, I feel like unlike the X-Files, I don't think it's all connected. Also, our our our uh I guess producer, can I can I say that? Our our our producer is is laughing a lot at at the X-Files and Dresden Files. I think.

SPEAKER_03 16:38

I live in the Rockford Files.

SPEAKER_02 16:40

Oh, that was a great show. That was a great show. I had a crush on him. I actually don't think I've seen the Rockford Files. It's old.

SPEAKER_04 16:49

Older, okay.

SPEAKER_02 16:50

But it's probably on something TV somewhere.

SPEAKER_04 16:54

Is it Rock like Rockford, Illinois, or is that a different kind of?

SPEAKER_02 16:56

No, his name was Rockford. He was a detective, private investigator guy. Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:02

Who was that Kojak?

SPEAKER_02 17:04

James James Garner. James Garner. Because I know Kojak. Good hair. James, no, Kojak was another uh he was a detective. I think he worked with the police department.

SPEAKER_04 17:14

Yeah, he was a new R show where he I feel like it was very similar to the Dresden Files, personally. It was very much, except for he wasn't a wizard. He was just a personal. And he liked lollipops.

SPEAKER_02 17:25

That was his big Who doesn't? That's true.

SPEAKER_04 17:27

Well tell if you show me somebody who doesn't like lollipops, I will show you somebody who I can't trust.

SPEAKER_02 17:33

Okay, we won't go there. So anyway, we did tell you we had AGHD, didn't we? Let's go back. Yeah. Okay, why don't we go to the script?

SPEAKER_04 17:46

Yes. And so what we haven't talked about yet. Previously, on Voices from the Attic, we talked about. I'm just gonna I'm gonna hit the bullet points here. There's a lot. So, but this is what we talked about last time, uh, kind of setting up where we're at. So first thing was the creation of projects signed with certain reports, uh, which certain reports claim ended because a staff member drafted what was called an estimate of the situation, which allegedly argued at least some of the UFOs were interplanetary. This alleged internal memo was shut down by someone higher up in the food chain, causing the project to get renamed to a much more fitting name, Project Grudge. Because they had a grudge against the person who told the truth. And a grudge against anyone who thought that UFOs could be interplanetary. Project Grudge got rid of anyone who thought UFOs could be interplanetary. Look at that. I wrote it. Uh, and are more than likely a large source of the culture of fear surrounding talk of UFOs in the military, as their mission was basically debunk first.

SPEAKER_02 18:43

And okay, I'm gonna sorry, I have to. And they're saying that part of the problem now about getting good at UFO UAP information is the stigma that has been around this for years and years and years because scientists had been told, no, if you you're you're nuts if you believe this, or you you're discredited if you believe it. So they stay away from it.

SPEAKER_04 19:05

Yeah, because there's a certain kind of a certain amount of bias that all scientists are supposed to are are supposed to claim.

SPEAKER_02 19:13

Well, and it's not even that, it is there's a definite stigma to UFOs because of things like Project Grudge Grudge.

SPEAKER_04 19:20

Which is why they were renamed to UAPs, which I think is kind of funny because of the same thing. Anyway, a few more projects came up, like one-offs that ended due to lack of equipment and and funding and all that stuff, as well as the re-establishment of the less of a less biased version of Project Grudge, which also brought in contractors to provide scientific and statistical support named Project Bear. Why do they name it a bear?

unknown 19:44

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 19:44

The Bears. That's that's okay. Chicago-based out of I I I wish, I doubt. No, probably not. The only thing that Chicago can can give them is is air. Anyway, uh, because of the Windy City, and also because of all the politicians blowing hot air. Um, then, after a series of reports, hearings, and panels, it was concluded to create uh Project Blue Book, which most people know is the United States Air Force longest-running official UFO slash UAP investigation, just in general. Uh Project Blue Book ran from 1952 to 1969 and recorded 12,618 UFO sightings, 701 of which were categorized as unidentified. They could not categorize it, they they couldn't explain it.

SPEAKER_02 20:35

So 17 years, right? I'm doing math, 17 years.

SPEAKER_04 20:39

Sounds about right.

SPEAKER_02 20:39

And about 12,000. So we're talking about 700.

SPEAKER_04 20:43

I'm an editor, not a not a doctor. What uh damn it, Jim. Yeah, damn it, Jim. I'm an editor, not a not a mathematician.

SPEAKER_02 20:52

I apologize for that use of uh bad words. I don't know anyone who has children listening.

SPEAKER_04 20:57

Oh. For the kids, I apologize. Okay, but for myself, I don't.

SPEAKER_02 21:01

So we're talking about about 17 years and about 12,000 over 12,000, if you're gonna round up 13,000. So maybe 700 a year-ish.

SPEAKER_04 21:12

I mean, which let's be completely honest, even though 701 are a lot of cases, compared to the 12,000 six hundred UFO cases, that's actually a pretty slim number. That's uh that's a fairly small group.

SPEAKER_02 21:31

12,600 UFO unidentified flying objects sightings.

SPEAKER_04 21:36

There were UFO reportings. And then so basically they the what Project Blue Book did is that they would take reports that that people had of of uh unidentified flying objects at the time, and they would look at the evidence and they would basically say, Okay, what you know, what do we think this could have been? Based on the evidence, this is probably like, for instance, a lot of weather balloons and And granted, uh in the defense of that explanation, there are a lot of weather balloons out there. Okay. There are a lot of weather balloons.

SPEAKER_02 22:08

Um especially weather balloons that hover in the sky over nuclear and then go 36,000 miles an hour away from it.

SPEAKER_04 22:16

I mean that that part, no. But I mean, weather balloons though, there there have been multiple cases of of a weather balloon getting recorded. Nowadays we can track. We there are places where we're able to track where a weather balloon is. So we but but I've I mean I watched uh I watched a YouTube video where somebody had recorded something that was just hanging in the sky, right? And we're like, oh, what is this? It's a that's a a genuine UFO. Like we don't know what it is. But then the the it was from quarter crew. Okay. Uh and they did a little bit of research into it and they saw that actually, yes, that was in fact a weather balloon that was just hovering there, and it was it was recorded by the the satellite group that yeah, no, there was a weather balloon out there at that point in time looking. Because there, I mean, you have to have a lot of weather balloons in order to gauge the weather.

SPEAKER_02 23:07

So, yeah, but let's do the flip side of this. Sure. So when weather balloons crash, they don't have to be reported on.

SPEAKER_04 23:16

I don't know if that's the case now. We will talk about this, right? Because yeah, in in the the 40s and 50s, it did not need to be reported. But I don't know if that's the case anymore. And also the government isn't the only one with weather balloons as well.

SPEAKER_02 23:31

There are right, there are a lot of but Brazil, which have turned out to be real. And we'll we'll we'll dive it.

SPEAKER_04 23:39

I I say let's hold, let's hold on that one because that was gonna be, yeah. So that's that's what we discuss later on. So then in the mid to late 60s, um oh, also, sorry, sorry, going back to Project Blue Book, uh, even though there were 701 cases classified as I unidentified, truly unidentified, they never officially stated that anything was extraterrestrial in nature, they just didn't know what it was. Exactly. Which I think honestly is fair because if you don't have evidence of it being extraterrestrial, then don't say it, even if you think it might be. I would say, you know, unless you have it's you know, guilty and uh sorry, innocent until proven guilty.

SPEAKER_02 24:18

See, and I think you're being really nice to these people because I think they knew I think that's what you have to do with it. And they were reverse engineering this this stuff, they knew that it was not stuff that we ought to do.

SPEAKER_04 24:27

I I don't know. I feel like well, we'll yeah, anyway, we'll get so then in the mid to late 60s, a series of reports that there were a series of reports that all essentially concluded the United States isn't in threat from UFOs, and it's a waste of money and resources to keep studying them. And so they they ended in 1969, they ended the Project Blue Book.

SPEAKER_02 24:50

Um, and then but they didn't end the legacy project that the CIA was doing covertly. So this was the out in front one.

SPEAKER_04 24:58

This is yeah, this is the official by arrow.

SPEAKER_02 25:00

This is this is what we have information on. The legacy program started in 47 and never stopped. And uh from what I have read.

SPEAKER_04 25:07

Right, and I I I believe that, but that's yeah, it's it's the CIA. It's gonna be if it's covert, we're not gonna have any information on it. Right, right. So um take it a swig. Then the next official official government um documents of anything about uh UFOs and everything is in 1977 when Carter asked NASA to look into UF reports, uh UFO reports, and NASA said no.

SPEAKER_01 25:38

Well, they were too busy building. Going to the moon or whatever. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 25:42

I mean the 70s, it was it was still in the space race era, though we'd already landed on the moon, we already landed on the moon. Um, but even still, I mean, NASA's was still all about going making space shuttles and and going, yeah, going into space, doing all that stuff. And so they didn't they didn't have they're also engineers, right? They're not that kind of scientist. I mean, I think talk to Hubble and and you know, see if they'd be willing to look into the stars. That's their job, uh, not NASA. Um anyway, and I don't know if Hubble is from NASA, but even still, Hubble, the people who built it are engineers.

SPEAKER_02 26:17

Um and scientists, and astronomers.

SPEAKER_04 26:20

They are scientists and astronomers, but I I almost feel like you even astronomers, I think, are more likely to to be helpful. Um, but even still, I feel like you need a a wider range of qualifications than just astronomers. And it's it is you need physicists, you need a bunch of other right.

SPEAKER_02 26:37

Well, it would be like if I'm not gonna say if you believe any of this at all. I'm not gonna say that. Okay, forest. Although I did say that if you want to look at the UAP UFO program as potentially an invading force. So what because what are they? I mean, obviously, if you look at some of the data that's been recorded and you listen to the testimonies, um we are being monitored, we're being watched. We uh especially some of our most top at top secret areas. So uh and and why are we being watched? Are we being watched just because hey they're enjoying the show? Yeah, it's like a tour. Yeah, pay four bucks, hop on this and go see the the primitive uh alien humans.

SPEAKER_04 27:31

Look at these monkeys flow fling their own poo at each other.

SPEAKER_02 27:35

Exactly. So it could be that, but it's also a national security risk because it could be not that, it could be Independence Day where they want to come. And so if if you are, for example, if there was an invasion coming from China in boats across the ocean towards us, you wouldn't call a boat manufacturer to look into this invasion. Exactly. And so to me, I I mean, uh NASA looking you might you might talk to captains.

SPEAKER_04 28:09

Well, you yes you talk to nautical experts, yes, but not manufacturers.

SPEAKER_02 28:13

But not the engineers, and that's what NASA is.

SPEAKER_04 28:16

Well, that's exactly my point. Yeah, they're the engineers, they're they're the people going into space, they're not the people observing.

SPEAKER_02 28:21

So this is a this is more of a national defense kind of thing.

SPEAKER_04 28:24

Exactly. Well, and that's you know, we do end up going into that. Yes. Um, so yeah, so Carter asked NASA, and NASA said No, thank you. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:33

I'm sure they said thank you.

SPEAKER_04 28:35

Well, probably not. Okay. This is not this is official reports. They probably said politely, no. We uh will ask to not do this. We respectfully decline the offer.

SPEAKER_02 28:47

That's right.

SPEAKER_04 28:48

Thanks, but no thanks.

SPEAKER_02 28:49

Let's think about it. No.

SPEAKER_04 28:51

Yeah, yeah. Um, but that leads us to, I would call it the modern era, um, which is I think where we can start. Um, which with President Bill Clinton tasking Chief of Staff John Podesta to look into Roswell. This was um it's this specific thing started in 1993.

SPEAKER_02 29:12

Which is interesting because that's over 30 years ago now.

SPEAKER_04 29:15

So yeah, yeah, this is the modern era is, I guess Well, this is where a lot of things this is kind of kind of modern-ish era. Right. This this is where the government looking into UFOs starts to really, you know, really s start to pick up steam and they start to realize, okay, the public not only has an interest in knowing what's in our skies, which duh. Right, but also it, you know, they're they're also noting that there is a since I would say the 70s, there has been public distrust of the government growing. And I mean, unfortunately, to this day, it's it's gotten to it I would say the highest element, uh highest elevation of government distrust, where you know, and that's just I think it's just a political thing. You have to distrust the parts of the government that you don't agree with politically, and that's just you know how it is.

SPEAKER_02 30:13

But I'm wondering, I'm wondering when the movie Independence Day came out. Because often 96. Interesting. So in that because it's in that span, though it and ET2. So oftentimes the government is interested in things that the press is interested in, yeah, because the people are interested in.

SPEAKER_04 30:36

I mean, and so you wonder if there's Steven Spielberg really pioneered a lot of a lot of um aliens coming to Earth in a in a good way. There in the 50s, extraterrestrials coming to Earth was looked at as terrifying. I mean, we got uh invasion of the body snatchers, we've got War of the Worlds, War of the Worlds, um, you know, all these there are a lot of when you looked at aliens coming to Earth, it was invasions, right?

SPEAKER_02 31:05

Whereas when was March an invasion? Was that March and wasn't uh I don't know. I I will look it it was really campy.

SPEAKER_04 31:18

And they they're they were all pretty campy.

SPEAKER_02 31:20

Well that's that's true.

SPEAKER_04 31:22

Except for um War of the Worlds. Yeah, that was terrible. People who didn't know because it started out as a radio production um by was it Orson? Yeah, okay. Yeah, it was Orson who who did the radio production. But it was written by H. G. Wells. Yes, yeah. But he, I guess, yeah, so it was written by HG Wells. Uh and was it I guess I should probably back up and and double check. Was it a radio thing first, or was it okay, so it wasn't a short story first. It was a bo it was a book first.

SPEAKER_02 31:54

It was called Mars Attack, and it was in 1990.

unknown 31:58

Tim Burton.

SPEAKER_02 31:59

Tim Burton did it. Yep, it was hysterical.

SPEAKER_04 32:01

There's a video game of that now.

SPEAKER_02 32:02

Oh, is there? So yeah.

SPEAKER_04 32:03

Yeah, you play as the Martian, and yeah, it's very, it's very retro campy. You know, 50s making fun of a lot of that 50s pop culture stuff. But uh, yeah, so I would say, yeah, one of the few ones that weren't campy was War of the Worlds. It was a book first, but then it was adapted to be uh a radio show, except when it was first aired, a lot of people didn't realize it was a show. And so it caused a lot of pandemic pandemonium. Which is fair because I mean that's you know, if I'm hearing this thing and I'm like, oh crap, this is a a news report of our planet.

SPEAKER_02 32:42

Right. They they actually thought it was a news report. Yeah, yeah. That's which which is terrifying, right?

SPEAKER_04 32:48

So um so there's also my favorite Martian, which was from 1963 to 1966, and it was about a Martian who's stranded on Earth, and so there's a modern adaptation, I don't know if it's an adaptation to that, but there's uh a show based off of a comic called Resident Alien, which is amazing. Um I highly recommend it. It's uh similar but different. I will say he uh so it's uh Alan Dudic is the um is the is the star okay of it. And he plays an alien who came to Earth to scout for an invasion, essentially. Oh and so it is it is still a aliens of the bad guys, but he starts to learn to love humanity. He still also murders plenty of people what in the process, but I guess if it's war, you can't really call it murder. You know, it's it's espionage and and okay, you know, and doing what you think is right for your.

SPEAKER_02 33:49

Well, and my favorite Martian, he had like antennas that actually came out, and they had little like TV antennas.

SPEAKER_04 33:56

Oh, that's fun.

SPEAKER_02 33:57

And and he would have to they would come out when at when he least expected them. So he would have to push them back in.

SPEAKER_04 34:06

No, I can't okay, don't I can't make any jokes about that. Okay, so anyway, anyway, going back to the spot. I will say though, I do like the the the fact that you kind of bring up where Steven Spielberg during the 80s and 90s. Right. Um, more 80s, but kind of then I think channeling into the 90s with other people taking that idea, there were a lot more When was Close Encounters? Yeah, close encounters of the third time the third kind, 70. Okay, so even late 70s. There were a lot more thoughts of a civilization outside of Earth being being better, right? Being being more hospitable towards humans.

SPEAKER_02 34:50

And and being um smarter, more technically technologically advanced. I mean, I think that was always the case. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 34:59

I mean, if you can do space travel, that that's true. That I think that that was always a case.

SPEAKER_02 35:03

E.T. did not seem technologically advanced.

SPEAKER_04 35:06

I'm pretty sure E.T. out of all of them, there was a reason why they accidentally left him behind.

SPEAKER_02 35:12

It's not very nice.

SPEAKER_04 35:13

But it's bullying. They didn't they didn't go back to look for him until he actively called out for them. So I mean, did they were they know uh home alone? How long did it take them before they realized that's because she can fly the plane back around? She could just yell, Kevin!

SPEAKER_02 35:38

Same thing.

SPEAKER_04 35:39

I'm pretty sure the pilot could have turned their their ship around.

SPEAKER_02 35:43

But again, maybe if if we're looking at this tourist thing, maybe it was a you know, a tour to Earth.

SPEAKER_04 35:50

We'll agree to disagree. I don't think it was a tour.

SPEAKER_02 35:52

I'm pretty sure it was three hours tour. All right, please go back and see this.

SPEAKER_04 35:57

Anyway, so so in 1993, um Bill Clinton tasked Chief of Staff John Podesta, like I said, to look into Roswell. And so here there are a series of reports from 1993 to 1997, um, where the US government, I would say, made some fairly monumentally, if unsurprising, claims. They actually talked about Roswell, uh, which is something that really the US the US government has always said nothing happened, but they never actually really seemed to actually like do deep digging and research into it. So uh the first report was in 1995 when the US government accountability office, the GAO, reported four Army Air Force, Air Force's air accidents in New Mexico during July 1947, all of which were aircraft, all of which happened after July 8th. However, they found no reported air accidents in New Mexico that that month matching Roswell. They also made it clear that air accident reports were required to be kept permanently in 1990. Uh, sorry, 1947, though there was no requirement to report a balloon crash in that same year. Right. So 1947, they didn't have to report balloon crashes.

SPEAKER_02 37:16

And so if they called a UAP crash or UFO crash a balloon crash, they didn't have to do a report on it.

SPEAKER_04 37:21

Yeah, they didn't have to justify it. They they could just say, oh, we we yeah, there's no reporting on that. Balloon. Say it with me. Balloon. Uh then in 1995, another Roswell report came out called the Roswell Report. Fact versus fiction in the New Mexico Desert.

SPEAKER_02 37:43

Dun dun dun.

SPEAKER_04 37:44

Yeah, it sounds like the uh beyond belief, fact or fiction. Does a balloon have to be reported? Does uh the head did you know? I I I'm trying to do that. Anyway, go ahead.

SPEAKER_02 37:56

Well, no, you could go, you go ahead and the report stated.

SPEAKER_04 37:59

Yeah. After a systematic search across archives slash record centers, and after interviewing people who might have knowledge, might. I mean, I will say that this was like you said, 30 plus years ago. I mean, this is 47.

SPEAKER_02 38:15

So if this is if if they're doing it in 1995 and they had to do it, they started nineteen ninety-three.

SPEAKER_04 38:21

So we let's let's assume nineteen ninety-three to nineteen ninety-five, because the report came out in nineteen ninety-five. So they'd already done the interview.

SPEAKER_02 38:27

But the Roswell thing came out with 47. So we're talking almost 50 years now.

SPEAKER_04 38:31

Yeah, so there's a good I think people who might have knowledge, I think they say it like that. I think it's it's reported like that because if you were 40.

SPEAKER_02 38:41

Those people would be dead. Yeah, well, no, maybe not dead.

SPEAKER_04 38:44

Well, maybe dead.

SPEAKER_02 38:45

Maybe dead, but maybe not.

SPEAKER_04 38:47

Because if you were smoking was very prevalent at that point in time.

SPEAKER_02 38:53

So you would be 80.

SPEAKER_04 38:54

Yeah. So you might not.

SPEAKER_02 38:55

It's like, oh, I kind of remember that. Right, right.

SPEAKER_04 38:58

Which I would hope that you would be able to recollect a you know, anything.

SPEAKER_02 39:02

It was a weather balloon. That's what they told us. It was a weather balloon. Exactly, exactly.

SPEAKER_04 39:07

But uh, yeah, I mean, but that's just that that would be the people who would be further down on the food chain in their 30s.

SPEAKER_02 39:15

To the Roswell nursing home and interviewed the people there. 59% said it was a weather balloon.

SPEAKER_04 39:23

Nine out of 10 government officials say it was a weather balloon.

SPEAKER_02 39:29

Okay, go ahead. I I want you to read the part of um no information indicating Roswell was a UFO event or of a government cover-up. Right.

SPEAKER_04 39:41

Well, yes, yeah. Uh we the government have, you know, our secluded that we didn't lie. Because it is the the G O A, the the um, or sorry, the yeah, the government accountability, the G A O, the government accountability office.

SPEAKER_02 39:55

And so, you know, the government almost like an oxymoron.

SPEAKER_04 39:58

Exactly, yeah, yeah. We the government are keeping ourselves accountable, and we the government have found ourselves to not be covering anything up.

SPEAKER_02 40:06

We are saying that we are totally truthful.

SPEAKER_04 40:09

Our hands are clean. Totally truthfully. Don't ask any questions.

SPEAKER_02 40:12

Yes. Don't look behind that mirror or wall or curtain.

SPEAKER_04 40:16

Yeah, don't look at the man behind the curtain. Um, instead, so there was no UFO event, there was no government cover-up, says the US government. Instead, they reported that the recovered material was consistent with the then classified balloon, Project Mogul.

SPEAKER_02 40:34

They didn't mention mention the uh non-human biologics that they recovered. They do later. Right, but not yes, yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 40:42

This one, this this one is specifically about it. Seems like it's more about the the crash and what the Roswell event specifically was. And then the other one, the the other report they come out with in 1997 is more here are some other things that have been attributed that we've seen have been attributed to the Roswell incident, and here is what we think that could be based on.

SPEAKER_02 41:06

So recently, though, in like 2024-ish, they say more specifically what they recovered, and within that there were four bodies non-human, right? That were biologics, they call it, that were recovered.

SPEAKER_04 41:20

Again, that's that is what certain members of the US government said, but not the official stance of the US government. Right.

SPEAKER_02 41:29

Well, I think there was a um when the House Intelligence Committee interviewed them and asked them that question, they said yes, there was an audible gasp from Congress. Right. So I think they believed it.

SPEAKER_04 41:42

And well, it's because it's on I mean it's on the record. It's on record. It's it's you know, you you're not supposed to lie under oath. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 41:49

It's testimony under oath. These were former government employees.

SPEAKER_04 41:54

So now it should be stated a lot of the things that he said, while he did have first-hand accounts of some of the things he said, he did not have first-hand accounts for all the things he said. These some of the things that he talked about were secondhand sources. He talked to people who had first-hand experiences, uh, but he was not allowed to say who they were because uh government classified government FDAs, yeah, you you don't break those because that's treason.

SPEAKER_02 42:20

Well, and and the other thing is it they were um one of the the comments is as soon as something like this would happen and they'd send the this Air Force special ops team to go in and pick up whatever crashed, yeah. Immediately anybody on that team would have to sign a non-disclosure. Yep. And and so they buried it fast. And they also said that the legacy group has like 80 years of, you know, all the times we see, um, and and there's jokes about this, you know, we see these really grainy, terrible videos of uh UAPs and UFOs. Um this legacy group has got clear, beautiful videos that are classified. So we're not gonna see those.

SPEAKER_04 43:10

No, yeah, yeah. If there is a legacy group, that absolutely makes sense that you know they they would withhold all that information.

SPEAKER_02 43:15

I kind of wonder, wouldn't it be great to get in there and get into their video? Because you're wondering, so so obviously the UAP stuff, that would be way cool. But you wonder if they've got like the good videos of cryptids. You know, if they've got some Bigfoot videos or they've got some dogma videos that are clear, concise, and it's it's so it's funny that you mentioned that because we will kind of dive into cryptid slash paranormal stuff a little bit later because one of the government projects ends up kind of rabbit holing. Oh, really? I can't imagine somebody rabbit holing What crazy rabbit hole?

SPEAKER_04 43:49

Uh and it I will, you know, when we get there, I'll also talk about the fact that, you know, there was a certain certain US senator who it sounds like was not part of that legacy group. He is probably on the outside of the legacy group. But we'll get there when we get there. Okay. All right. I will say a word. Yeah. So yeah, so I going back to Project Mogul, I will say, just as a side note, the name Project Mogul is way cooler than it actually is such a cool name, Project Mogul. But what it was, it was it was a balloon. So according to the US government, specifically according to Wikipedia, who probably got their sources from the US government or site sources that also got their sources from the US government, Project Mogul was a top secret project by the US Army Air Force involving microphones flown on high altitude balloons whose primary purpose was long distance detection of sound waves generated by Soviet atomic bomb tests. Yeah, so so it's a big old hovering microphone that might be able to hear atomic uh uh atomic missiles.

SPEAKER_02 45:00

So all of a sudden in my mind is what is that that uh hey, it's Mr. Microphone, and they zoom by in the car. I don't think I know. You don't know that reference. Hey guys, come on in, it's Mr. Microphone, and they're they're usually in like in a convertible and they've got the microphone, and so they're singing and dancing to Mr. Microphone.

SPEAKER_04 45:20

I will need to look that up.

SPEAKER_02 45:21

You will have to.

SPEAKER_04 45:22

Yeah. Um it they just to let you guys know, Project Mogul is no longer it was it's a retired project because it was replaced by seismic detectors.

SPEAKER_02 45:33

Well, and that seems a little bit more sophisticated. Yeah. Than Mr. Microphone.

SPEAKER_04 45:37

Than Mr. Yeah, then literally it went from it went from a microphone in the sky, which if that is gonna crash, that makes absolute sense. Because microphone, I mean, microphones are heavy, and you know, they're also prone to disasters every once in a while. That's why they build a lot of the traveling tour microphones, they they build them with uh you know durability in mind. Um and that goes from that to something that you can control a lot better on the ground. So when was this project mogul?

SPEAKER_02 46:10

Um what year do we know?

SPEAKER_04 46:12

I'm sure there is a record. I mean, obviously 1947 is around that time, at least. 1947? It's that old. It I mean, if if that's what they claimed crashed into Roswell, yes. Oh, I thought it was just a weather balloon. I didn't know it was a project. No, it's not a good thing. They they claimed that that uh what crashed was Project Mogul. So that's why they didn't talk about it, because it was a classified balloon.

SPEAKER_02 46:38

So who was the president of Russia? Truman was president in the United States. They really have president of Russia the USSR.

unknown 46:50

I don't think it was a Kruzchef, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 46:52

Okay, I'm also Googling.

SPEAKER_04 46:54

It's uh Truman versus uh 1947 USS Yeah, USSR. Right USSR Okay, Joseph Stalin was a leader. Oh, okay. Yep. Joseph Stalin was a leader of the Soviet Union in 1947.

SPEAKER_00 47:16

Hello, Truman. This is Stalin. We see your microphones and your balloons.

SPEAKER_04 47:28

Are you we we need to know? Are you gonna launch the missiles? No, I'm just stolen.

SPEAKER_02 47:36

Oh, that was good. That was good. I get the Stalin. Stolen.

SPEAKER_04 47:39

That was very good. It is pun. Do you understand my joke? It is pun. You understand? I will I will repeat, I am just stolen. Anyway, sorry. Um, anyway, then in 1997, another report came out called the Roswell Report. Case closed.

SPEAKER_02 47:58

We're not lying this time.

SPEAKER_04 48:00

Yeah, the case is closed. We didn't, we we won't we won't lie. While the early report was to explain about the crash, what the crash was, this report was to explain what the alien bodies that multiple sources reported most likely were.

SPEAKER_00 48:13

They uh were like skiing in the sky, and the weather balloon hit them, and it was a terrible crash.

SPEAKER_04 48:22

I wish that would. So the report says that the alien bodies were actually anthropomorphic test dummies from high-altitude balloon research.

SPEAKER_02 48:32

Oh, they weren't real. Yeah, they were dummies. They were test dummies.

SPEAKER_04 48:37

Oh, oh, are you? I think they have one upright Patterson.

SPEAKER_03 48:40

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 48:40

Okay, so so we just got that's a that's a real thing. So Ash Ash with the facts, they that is a real thing. Or it's a real thing after the fact.

SPEAKER_00 48:50

I mean, unfortunately, everything could be, you know. We've got non-human biologics. So what are we gonna do? Uh let's build some mannequins and say that's what they really were and put them on display. Everybody will believe us.

SPEAKER_04 49:06

So there are anthropomorphic test dummies that were from high-altitude balloon research. Um, that some dramatic crew recovery stories match dummy recovery operations.

SPEAKER_02 49:17

But now they actually admit that they were non-human biologists. Right. Well, well, yes, some people testing the suits.

SPEAKER_04 49:24

Okay, okay. So Ash with the facts, they were testing the suits um for with the dummies. So it's a I'm assuming that they they dropped the dummies.

SPEAKER_03 49:34

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 49:34

Okay, okay. Okay. And I just I don't exist yet, by the way.

SPEAKER_03 49:40

Okay. And you also have jets that are uh flying higher altitudes, so you have to have pressure suits with the pilots.

SPEAKER_04 49:46

Okay. Okay, okay. That makes sense. Now the question is can the audience hear you as you say this?

unknown 49:53

Absolutely not.

SPEAKER_04 49:54

Okay. So we're gonna have to we need to get you a microphone that you can every once in a while. Yeah, every so often come in and talk us. Yeah, yeah, no, no, but but clarify things with knowledge that you have as well. Um, okay, so let me I'm gonna write down what you just said. We're gonna repeat it. I'm gonna write it here if that's all right.

SPEAKER_02 50:14

So basically, Ash just said that he saw at Wright-Patterson Air Force that there actually were anthropomorphic testidummies from high altitude balloon research. I'm pretty sure I saw that.

SPEAKER_03 50:24

Yes, I think I thought they had that at right. He's pretty sure.

SPEAKER_02 50:27

Okay, I thought you said right. Yeah, right-patterson, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 50:29

Yeah, and I've been to there a few times. I just trying to remember. I thought I saw something. I'm pretty sure I saw that there.

SPEAKER_02 50:34

He's he's pretty sure he saw it there. And the reason he's old too, but not as old as me. But the reason they use those the excuse that they used to be. No, okay. The reason the reason what what Ash is saying is the reason. The excuse was me adding into that. The reason is because they were testing flight suits for pressure because they're things like Project. Right.

SPEAKER_04 51:01

Extelsior and High Dive. And High Dive.

SPEAKER_02 51:04

Right.

SPEAKER_04 51:04

And because they're just the Red Bull, um the the Elixir, what's his name?

unknown 51:09

Then that guy's wall.

SPEAKER_04 51:10

Yeah, the the the Red Bull um skydivers as well. That's you know, but they had to test it on anthropomorphic dummies first. Right. That's true. They yeah, they didn't need to test it anymore because yeah, the government did it first.

SPEAKER_02 51:24

Anthropomorphic. Yes. Test dummies died in a fiery crash in Roswell. As as dummies are wont to do.

SPEAKER_04 51:32

I know. I'm always Well, no, so what they're claiming is what they're claiming is that when people bodies. Well, yeah, there were no bodies there.

SPEAKER_02 51:39

They looked like aliens. Yes. They just happened to make the dummies look like aliens.

SPEAKER_04 51:43

They're saying they're saying that people that people's experiences in 1947 were were confli uh what what was the what's the term? Um conflated. Okay. There was a conflation between the two, because they also say another thing it could be uh would they this or argue that stories of alien bodies at the hospital likely reflect conflation of other incidents, specifically two incidents, one of which is a 1956 KC97 accident, okay, and the other one is a 1959 manned balloon accident. So they're saying that these the the reports of of you know the the anthropomorphic dummies getting collected, right, and also the people that they saw at the hospital were conflated and kind of in people's memories, it was conflated to be correlated with the Roswell incident. Now, I don't know if I fully like that that seems that seems pretty like a lie. A stretch, maybe, I think. I would call it a stretch where it's like, yeah, you know, there were other incidents that happened.

SPEAKER_02 52:58

Maybe they were just thinking of horrible accidents that happened where people because you worked in the hospital as a nurse and saw them bring in burned and scarred alien bodies does not mean that that really happened. Yeah. It was definitely another thing that happened at a different time. Two years later, even though you didn't work there anymore.

SPEAKER_04 53:16

Yeah, one of them's 50, 56, and the other one is 59. Right. And it's like those were both well after 47.

SPEAKER_02 53:23

Yeah, but you're confused. Yeah. These are not the George.

SPEAKER_04 53:27

That's almost 1960. That's like a full decade more than it's a decade in change.

SPEAKER_02 53:32

Well, no, it's just two years. 57 to 59. 47. 47, you're right. 47. Yeah, that's 12 years later. Yeah. That's you don't remember it correctly. That's a whole 12-year-old after the fact.

SPEAKER_04 53:47

So but as we know, this, you know, the the Clinton administration looking into Roswell, uh, this settled everyone's skepticism. I I'm happy. And no one thought that a cover-up took place in Roswell ever again. Yeah, no.

SPEAKER_02 54:01

I never lived. I never believed that at all.

SPEAKER_04 54:04

We all lived happily ever after. And then the next organization is Advanced Aerospace Weapons System Application Program, or the AAWSAP. The AWSAP. I don't know if that's what I'm saying. Which is why they changed their name to advanced, well, yeah. So Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program or ATIP.

SPEAKER_02 54:28

ATIP is better than AWSAP. I mean I don't wouldn't be allowed to be called a SAP. That's that's fair. That that that's valid.

SPEAKER_04 54:35

Um so let's see. Oh, oh, okay, here it is. I didn't so it so you did mention it has two names. So the official title is OSAP. Um while the other A tip is more of a an unofficial nickname. Right.

SPEAKER_02 54:52

That was they don't want to be called SAPs.

SPEAKER_04 54:53

Yeah. Well it was also, it was, it was later used, and it almost seems like they when people talk about ATIP, at first they're they're referring like in the earlier parts, they're referring to ASAP. Sorry, OSAP. But I think later on it was almost like a way to distance the what the people ATIP were doing from what OSAP was supposed to do. Because the the project kind of deviated from the original intention. So the original intention, the US Defense Intelligence Agency, the DIA, uh, at the direction of Senator Harry Reid, no relation. Right. We're we're, you know, same last name, but we're not related. Uh probably are, but way, way, way back. Uh he received $22 million to assess. Sorry, he he gave the def the Defense Intelligence Agency, the DIA, uh $22 million to assess advanced aerospace threats. The idea is that they were going to subcontract, they were going to contract um uh a group to explore 12 advanced areas of aerospace technology, including lift and propulsion, unconventional materials and controls, and signature reduction.

SPEAKER_02 56:08

Okay, so um and this is covered in um in the um documentary called Age of Disclosure. And so what what they're talking about there, and I I took a picture of the screen so I could do it, but what they were trying to associate is you know with UAPs. Let me see if I can find it. Um here it is. So they were talking about um these are how they were breaking it down. Hypersonic velocity. Okay, you do that and I'll read it.

SPEAKER_04 56:49

Oh, oh yeah. Can it rhyme? Can it go into a beat? Let's see. Let's see how they broke it down.

SPEAKER_02 56:57

Hypersonic velocity, instantaneous acceleration, low observability, transmedium. I can't read the second word. Anti I'm running out of breath. I can't I can't do it anymore. I can't. I'm good or I'll just go, Captain. Let me see. You can't take much more. Transmedium travel. So transmedium travel was space to atmosphere to can you repeat all of that for me because I wasn't paying attention.

SPEAKER_04 57:29

Oh because I was too busy doing the beat. I was drop, I was break, I was breaking it down.

SPEAKER_02 57:34

And the beat goes on. Okay, yes. Hypersonic velocity, so they can go faster than anybody else can go. Right. And and some of our Navy pilots are talking 36,000 miles an hour, is what they were doing. Jeez, that was very fast. Instantaneous acceleration, so they can go from standing still to rip and they're gone.

SPEAKER_04 57:55

Like uh, like the Roadrunner.

SPEAKER_02 57:58

Exactly. And that's probably where we got the information. Roadrunner.

SPEAKER_04 58:02

Looney Tunes position.

SPEAKER_02 58:03

Yes, exactly.

SPEAKER_04 58:04

Uh and you have Marvin the Martian, so I mean, you know, it's fairly credible, I think. They have a whole Martian department.

SPEAKER_02 58:11

Low observability, and I I'm gonna have to I don't know if it's hard harder for us to see if that's what low observability is. Um transmedium travel, which is they go will go from start in space, go through our atmosphere, and then go and so mediums are are different right from space to um our atmosphere to the the sea. What's the what's the mil which which branch of the military has that from From the shores of Montezuma to the from the halls of Montezuma to the shores of Tripoli? That sounds about right.

SPEAKER_04 58:55

So I'm I'm thinking of that's not Transmedia. That's still the shores are still land.

SPEAKER_02 58:58

Right, and that's the Marine Corps.

SPEAKER_04 59:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 59:01

Umti-gravity um and let's see.

SPEAKER_04 59:06

And then defying gravity.

SPEAKER_02 59:11

Exactly. And the last one was let me see if I can find it. I'm sorry, biological. I was trying to, he's in front of a he's in front of a biological effects.

SPEAKER_04 59:24

So biological, so so things that affect your so like is are we talking like disease or more like radioactive reactivity?

SPEAKER_02 59:33

I think what they're talking about is the fact that with the G force that these guys, because you'll get ones that you're they're like coming in at you know like at thousands of miles an hour.

SPEAKER_04 59:48

Mach 18, right?

SPEAKER_02 59:49

Something and will go and then will go up all of a sudden. And the G force should destroy your body. Right, it should separate all of your internal organs, and it it doesn't. So those are some of the things that they were looking at. ATIP was looking at.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:04

Okay, so so what they're basically saying is that it it's affecting human biologics or affecting biologics through the means of what's happening on the outside isn't affecting the biologics that would happen that would probably be on the inside.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:20

If if somebody was saying, oh, oh no, it just China has created this.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:23

Yeah, China couldn't create that unless they figured out how to have a different gravity pole inside a uh So those are the gravity manipulation, essentially.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:33

Yeah, yes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:35

Interesting. Yeah, and that's and that's what ATIP looked into. That's that's not what AWS well, I mean, I guess kind of what OSAP was supposed to look into, but here's here's where the fun happens. Here's where the fun begins. So, like we mentioned, this was given to a private, it was awarded a private to a private sector organization. Uh so the the contractor, supported by the DIA program manager, conducted UFO research, uh which you know, which was kind of in the purview of looking at because the idea was that they would be assessing advanced aerospace threats. And so obviously they would need to be looking at UFO stuff. I think the original idea was that they would, I think the government thought, oh, they're gonna create things that will be able to monitor this the skies easier. What they did was we're going to go back into Project Blue Book, look at old UFO reports, also look at civilian UFO reports as well as you know, modern UFO reports, and and look at those. Um they operated investig uh investigatory teams and debriefing teams. So if, you know, if if a member of the military or multiple members of the military saw a UFO, they would go and and investigate and debrief.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:54

And and what they had to do in Congress is they had to give special whistle whistleblower protection to people who were willing to testify because all of these people had signed these non-disclosure agreements.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:07

Which is very interesting. Uh something that I don't write in here, but I guess I'll I'll I'll share now. Later on, um Harry Reed tried to uh talk to I think the defense uh the the uh the dod okay uh department of defense of defense and tried to make this OSAP into a um a special oh dod area yeah okay not just a dod but but you uh a special project, a special program, which basically would mean that it was top secret. Right. Um have you know you need sp and and the dod essentially said no.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:47

So let me give you a little bit of background. Um in 1947, a couple months after Roswell happened, President Truman signed the National Security Act of 1947, which established both the Air Force and the CIA.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:05

Um I didn't realize that the Air Force, sorry, I didn't realize that the Air Force um happened at the same time as the CIA.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:12

The Air Force used to be part of the Navy. I I did know that I did know that. But that's what happened then, and um that was also the start point in which both the CIA and the Air Force began to take operational control of the UAP topic. And so, but it wasn't until a couple of years later when Truman signed the Central Intelligence Agency Act that really allowed or endorsed the CIA to be able to run secret intelligence operations outside of normal routine oversight channels.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:47

Which I mean makes if you're, for instance, if you're a CIA operative that's infiltrating a drug cartel, for example, right, you need to be able to to do some pretty bad illegal things without the government oversight, or else you will get caught and you'll get killed.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:04

That's true, but it's kind of scary because you're giving this group a lot of control. You're absolutely right.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:09

Without I mean that that's I think specifically more of a of a the I mean that's James Bond, but also I think that's based off of a real license from the M M14. Um which I I M I M I yeah M I6. M I six not M14. I don't know where M M14 came from. We'll have to look that up. Oh, the M14's a gun. Okay. Um I've been able to do that. So anyway, so but but yeah, I know that the CIA has a similar but different um permission they give. Basically the the a permission to if as long as it's within the purview of your mission, they get special permission to do what they seem is necessary in order to complete the mission.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:58

So it says from Roswell on, the strategy for dealing with the public and ensuring US secrecy is maintain US secrecy is maintained was basically adopt the strategy of denying everything, admit nothing, make counteraccusations, put out false narratives, absolutely, intimidate and discredit witnesses, and in essence deny, deny, deny. Right.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:23

So it sounds like my guess, my and and this I guess there are two interpretations when it comes to going back to Harry Reid asking for you know this this program to get elevated to a top secret, you know, because I think that would also give them access to top secret evidence as well. Right. It would give them top secret clearance, um as opposed to you know the the what they had. It would also make the entire project top secret, but I think you know they would they would get they would get both. Um my guess is that Senator Harry Reid, who was who was the U.S. House representative. at the time um was out of the loop when it comes to anything within that that purview because if he was he wouldn't I mean if he was in the loop he probably wouldn't have made the the thing in the first place but if he was in you know one interpretation is that he doesn't know about this about the this CIA organization that would be researching all the stuff so let's talk about the CIA organization so the CIA was then in 1947 put in charge of UFO's UAPs and the CIA kind of unofficially because I I couldn't find any I couldn't find any source everything from Aero is all about the defense department of defense maybe and uh because they can be secret so basically so what they did is they put together this legacy program that's what they call it sure the legacy program and the CIA is is the overarching uh leader within underneath the CIA reporting to the CIA is the Air Force specifically the Air Force retrieval program okay when uh UFOs or UAPs crash they have a special unit in the Air Force that goes and cleans things up and and then classifies things so we don't know anything about it.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:17

Yeah they also have the Department of Energy because the Department of Energy knows things about uh nuclear power atomic power those kinds of they're the experts there but also smack dab in the middle are defense contractors. Yep and so what we do is we pick up all of this equipment that is um technologically superior or advanced to what we have we give it to defense contractors and they reverse engineer it. Right.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:48

Because let's be completely real I mean there's a reason why Project Bear happened because the military is very good at doing things that the military is very good at reverse engineering I don't think is necessarily one of the things that the military is it trains their operator trains their operatives on very specific specialized tasks. But things like that are much better given to a a a contractor who would be have a lot more education on on those engineering and those kinds of things.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:22

So an antidote and then a pro pro and con. So the antidote is I have a friend actually she reads she and her husband read all of my books they live up in Minnesota. Heck yeah and so they talk do they talk like Minnesotan? They kind of do yeah heck yeah and so they they once a year they travel through because they go to Florida to meet family.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:44

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:44

And so we meet for lunch which is kind of fun but she was telling me her dad was an engineer and he worked at Wright Patterson and he would come home and talk about the UFOs that he was working on to reverse engineer. And so I and this was she told me this like if you signed an NDA I mean well I guess you could tell your kids I don't know I don't I don't think you're supposed to I don't love the defen I I don't know if he was a defense contractor worker and he wasn't military.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:13

But even still I mean if you're if you're a contract worker I would imagine that you're still not you would still be signing those but I think it's fascinating that I knew this like three she told me this three years ago before we even started doing this research into stuff. I I believe that people would do that. Right. But yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:38

So now Marco Rubio was um interviewed and at that time Senator Marco Rubio was interviewed for this age of disclosure and he said he said the the problem is he says in the government you know things get turned around every you know three or four years. Yeah and he said so you could have somebody in a government position who's working with a defense contractor and he knows that the government gave the defense contractor this UAP and what the defense contractor is going to do. Well then he leaves and the next person who takes that spot does might know a little bit about it but not but then by the third person that takes it they have no idea but the defense contractor does because he's been doing this now for 12 years.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:28

As well as you know people who are in the CIA right I don't know not agents and say like people closer like generals but not necessarily generals but like you know people who would be more in office positions in the CIA. Instead of the appointees the actual workers exactly the people who aren't getting elected into there rather they they they climb the the ladder to get to where they are they're also gonna have a lot more information than you know and but their information is going to be NDA.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:56

Well the other thing is too the Freedom of Information Act applies to government.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:01

Yeah so if does it apply to CIA I'm curious. I d I don't know because if CIA if CIA by its own by its own merit says we don't have to follow the law I could see that not applying to them as much. Maybe they gave certain information and then they're like the rest of it though, that's CIA.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:19

This says Executive Order 1233 bans covert action to influence the public and the media but the legacy crash retrieval program has been ignoring that.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:29

So even if there are laws they say yeah that doesn't apply to us I mean it but it that kind of sounds like if you give the CIA the ability to basically if they find that the mission requires it to to break to bend or break the law then yeah they're gonna bend and break the law. Even the laws that you don't want them to bend or break if they think it's necessary they're going to do that.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:54

But the Air Force is under the Freedom of Information Act. Sure the Air Force yes so that's why so they can't hoard information they have to give it to people which is why they give it to defense contractors because private companies are not under the Freedom of Information Act. So they don't have to disclose this information that the Air Force would have to so you will have private contractors working at an Air Force base, right, Patterson, doing this stuff, but they don't have to disclose because it is not it they they push it under the auspices of defense contractors.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:26

Which is why government officials are supposed to keep their emails about government stuff in their government computers so that if you need to look into it you can whereas if you're in a private You don't have to do that. You don't have to do that.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:39

So that's one of the reasons OSAP and ATIP were getting pushback was because this legacy program that nobody covert legacy program I guess I could say that nobody knew about by them sticking their noses in where and and you you've got a couple things. You've got this information that the CIA has guarded and kept quiet for a long long time but you also have defense contractors who have made a lot of money on reverse engineering these things and want to continue absolutely making a lot of money.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:19

Both with the government because if they're reverse engineering weapons and and other right you know aircraft and things like that, they're gonna want to keep that contract absolutely they reverse it they they understand and probably then um implement it in other technologies as well patent that yeah that's fair they they patent the the the stuff that they've found and then they they sell it.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:42

And so they're making multi-million dollars and some of these many of these defense contractors are also supporting politicians. And so when wait wait uh a a big large corporation is donating millions of dollars to politicians I know to influence their their opinions no they just give them weather balloons just give them weather balloons it's a weather balloon you know what it is wink wink nudge nudge say no more say no more so anyway so yeah a lot of the there's a lot of pushback from this this and they didn't even know at first OSAP and ATIP didn't even know about the legacy program.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:27

I'm yeah I mean it makes sense it sounds like everyone who created OSAP or at least the the main people who created OSAP and ATIP also but they wouldn't know there's no reason why the the the um defense intelligence agency would if Harry Reid didn't even know about it.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:44

No but but what happened was when OSAP or ATIP whichever you want to call them was created some of the legacy program scientists were really excited because they're scientists. Right. So they're into information they're friggin' nerds yes and so they contacted the OSAP ATIP people physicists they did talk to them. Well yeah but they're not supposed to well they didn't know that and so they did and it was like oh we got some cool stuff and it's oh ooh that is cool stuff and let's share it and let's do it and then somebody from above said what the heck do you think you're doing and they you're grounded they close that door well because here's another interest because what a lot of the controversy the controversy surrounding at least what the government says some of the controversy surrounding uh ATIP is is that so you know this was this was headed by uh a contractor. Right.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:44

I think I know who the contractor is but I'll I'll get to that okay in a little bit. But uh here's the spicy little bit they investigated an alleged hotspot of UFO and UAP and paranormal activity at a Utah property owned by the head of the contractor. The investigation includes reports of shadow figures slash creatures, remote viewing and human consciousness abnormalities plus plans to hire psychics to study interdimensional phenomena. So we got into the woo-woo thing we sure did we and it got we got into it real fast.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:22

And we we know that this has got to be Skinwalker Ranch. It's absolutely Skinwalker Ranch and that that means this that the the contractor was Bigelow because Bigelow owned oh okay yeah Bigelow Robert Bigelow owned that property at the time okay so Robert Bigelow is the multimillionaire who he does hotels or motels like Motel 6 or something is his.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:43

Yes yes but he's also he I mean because he's a big old nerd as well right he his his passion essentially this is a passion project which I think is hilarious because basically if you're wealthy enough you your passion projects can be funded by the military. Some of us paint checkers some of us yeah some of us some of us paint mini figurines and some of us um support scientists researching paranormal activity on on soil that if you dig in it in it you could get radio poisoning. Right. Um so okay yeah so yeah anyway I say that yeah now Arrow doesn't officially state who it is but the fact that they say it's a Utah property and then they list all these things I think most people who know about Skinwalker Ranch go, oh Skinwalker Ranch right so Robert Bigelow was a contractor.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:36

Right. Unless so there's this blind frog ranch now supposedly in the same area of Bigelow ranch. So I mean uh they had their own little but they're they're more interested in finding some lost gold that was their whole big thing.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:52

So I'm guessing skin I mean there's gold in them hills and it's underneath the I bet that hurt ashes or ears okay okay thank you ash yeah he comes home I can't hear you Andrew he has to he has to clean his ears out of all the blood that I caused Arrow does want us to know that the DIA did not seek nor specifically authorize the paranormal line of work however the a DI a employee absolutely set up and oversaw the contract. Okay so there was there was there was oversight but the DIA itself that government is stepping away from it. Yes they they're like we didn't ask for that and after it was terminated its supporters unsuccessfully tried to convince the Department of Homeland Security to back a new version of this called Kona Blue they they tried beautiful I know it's kind of a cool name but uh the cool name alone wasn't enough to convince people to back it and so for a while um nothing happened until just kind of going I'm just gonna quickly go through those notes and then I then but uh even though that all happened during this time it seemed that the government was finally realizing that hey we should probably actually encourage our military personnel to report UFO or UAP they encounter so they launched the unidentified aerial phenomenon task force the UAPTF which worked with they did their stuff from August 2020 to November 2021 to standardize how UAPs are reported and analyzed so we can improve data quality and catalog UAP that might pose a national security threat. I also think it's around that time that they they moved from the term UFO to UAP to get rid of some of the stigma that UFO has now it's instead of unidentified flying object it's oh UAP that's what you're talking about. Exactly exactly um and then the next organization after this after the task force the next organization is the airborne object identification and management synchronization group or AOI M S G. I want that job as well as help with people's names as well as the airborne object identification and management executing man uh sorry airborne object identification and management executing management committee yeah that's easy for you to say AOIME X E C both of those organizations were kind of brought into one which evolved into the program that is thankfully much easier to say all domain anomaly resolution office or Aero which was officially established July 15th 2022 which was established actually during one of the hearings that we won't be able to talk about today.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:43

Okay so I'm gonna just do some quick yes yes quick catch-ups so there was a house uh in 2024 a house intelligence committee held a hearing on UAPs and Tim Birdsett who's a Republican uh representative for Tennessee he's kind of he was really pushing this and he's he the so they brought in um he he he says last year house intelligent committee held a hearing on uaps they brought in some Pentagon bureaucrats who only had two answers to the questions we asked I don't know where that's classified this hearing is going to be different this time we have this time we have credible witnesses testifying before Congress and American people under oath this was a tremendously proud moment for my colleagues and myself to watch the fire that we started continue to grow. The subcommittee hearing on unidentified anomalous phenomena or UIPs will come to order the reality is a public American public deserves to know and you better be careful about a government that doesn't trust its people because there's no telling what they'll pull on you. It's really important that we're here in a bipartisan way to have this conversation which is about national security um okay so then they swear these guys in um and um they ask why are you doing this and he said the one fellow and I I don't have names here because this is the this is from the age of disclosure documentary and this is um the transcript and he says I was informed in the course of my official duties of a multi multi-decade UIP crash retrieval and reverse engineering program this is coming from is this coming from the hearing is this from coming from the hearing and my guess is and because I I there's three guys that are in it Gaush yes yeah let me let me get to that let me get to those okay you get I'm gonna keep reading you find it I found it I did just find it okay so 2023 right house oversight subcommittee Ryan Graves speaking primarily as a flight safety advocate and collector of pilot reports.

SPEAKER_04 1:22:45

Okay we got David Groosh okay former intelligence officer describing whistleblower allegations secret UAP related programs alleged crash retrievals and alleged reprisals okay and then David Fravor he's the one who I think has the the strongest language he's the one that most people quote so this is probably David Fravor describing the 2004 Tic Tac encounter and arguing it presents sorry I I let me let me brief let me go back. I think David Gruosch is probably the person because I think he's the one that had a lot more because David Frever described the 2004 Tic Tac encounter um and argued it presents real uh capability and security questions. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:26

So I think uh this is probably David Gruosh okay the one that really so yeah um they says I hope that my actions will ultimately leave to a positive outcome of increased transparency. We were primarily seeing dark gray or black cubes inside of a clear sphere where the apex or tips of the cubes were touching the inside of that sphere. Since the events initially occurred I've learned the objects have been detected essentially where all operations Navy operations are being conducted across the world these objects have been observed for over two weeks coming down from about 80,000 feet rapidly descending to tw to 20,000 feet hanging out for hours and then going straight back up it wasn't until 2009 until Jay Stranton who was part of ATIP and had contacted me to investigate. Unbeknownst to all he was part of the ATIP program of the Pentagon and then they ask are you aware of any individuals that are participating in reverse engineering programs for non-terrestrial craft personally yes. Do you believe that our government is in possession of UAPs I know the exact locations I actually had the people with firsthand knowledge um provide a protected disclosure to the inspector general do we have the bodies of the pilots who piloted this craft biologics came with some of these recoveries yeah non-human biologics non-human I was wondering if you could speak and this I remember is AOC saying I was wondering if you could speak a little bit about the interaction between defense contractor companies and any UAP related programs or activities. The contractors the metal benders so to speak they're the ones actually doing specific performance on government contracts how does the program get funded misappropriation of funds they asked does that mean there is money in the budget that is set up to go to a program but it doesn't and it goes to something else? Yes I have specific knowledge of that um Mr. Graves and Fravor in the event that your encounters had become hostile so both of these men had personal encounters sure in the event that your encounters had become hostile would you have had the capability to defend yourself? Absolutely not sir no what we experienced was well beyond the material science and the capabilities that we had at the time that we have currently or that we're gonna have in the next 20 years we have nothing that can stop in midair and go in the other direction nor do we have anything that can like in our situation come down from space hang out for three hours and go back up is it possible that these UEPs would be probing our capabilities yes or no Mr. Graves yes Mr Groves yes definitely do you have any personal knowledge of people who have been harmed or injured in efforts to cover up or conceal these extraterrestrial technology yes personally anyone been murdered that you know of I have to be careful. I directed people with that knowledge to the appropriate authorities.

SPEAKER_04 1:26:40

There is clearly a threat to the national security of the United States of America and then um well and and we also know that um from a book um uh somebody's first hand encounter experience of it this we talked about this in last episode the guy who who had you know something implanted into his knee before he he found that out he experienced a uh he had a UAP encounter right um and it ruined his career it ruined his career and it and it kind of ruined his friend's life right uh and it wasn't it wasn't just because of the encounter but then also the cover up the military's response to the encounter also in this um documentary there's a doctor Gary Nolan who's Stanford University School of Medicine he is a CIA ATIP UAP task force advisor he uh is working with the people the humans who have been exposed to the extraterrestrial UAP things because he said they have burns on the outside of their bodies they have burns on the inside of their bodies there's brain damage he said because they have all this power.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:54

So here you have a doctor who's working and and then I guess the final thing I wanted to

SPEAKER_04 1:28:07

And this is probably a topic that we'll end up coming back to because I think so much.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:12

Basically he said it was it was one of the quantum physics and he was saying that I pulled it out because I wanted to um You mean like a binder or something. I I know I I need to to do it. Right now we think that they're friendly.

SPEAKER_04 1:28:36

I I you quoted this as a Did I quote this?

SPEAKER_02 1:28:38

Okay, I'm gonna do it again because it's it's haunting to me. Yeah, yeah, no, I just can't. He says, you know, they come down, they look at our stuff, and and what one of the quotes from one of the guys, again, I highly recommend the age of disclosure documentary, but um and it's on Prime Video. Um he you know, the one of these guys said that this this thing came down hovering over our our nuclear um silos in the ground, and he said it was as big as a Walmart. He said it was as big as a super Walmart. And it it it just it just s sat there for like 30 minutes. I mean there was all these eyewitnesses to it.

SPEAKER_04 1:29:17

Probably asking, why aren't these guys using Do you know what could happen? Yes, and why aren't you guys using nuclear weapons?

SPEAKER_02 1:29:22

Well, they also said I'm sorry, go ahead.

SPEAKER_04 1:29:25

Yeah, you this this isn't this isn't used right now, this is not being used right now. Why aren't you doing it, you dumb humans?

SPEAKER_02 1:29:31

Why are you They also said that they have the ability to shut down our nuclear missiles? That's terrifying. One of the bases in California said they lost 12 nuclear missile missiles to a UAP in a week's time, but they also can turn them on. And that happened in Russia. And so there was a Russian missile that a UAP went over their facility and turned it on, which caused like all of us here in the United States to panic. But Russia contacted us and said it was it was this.

SPEAKER_04 1:30:02

It's very rude, especially considering, I mean, the it sounds like the UAP is playing favorites, and I don't like who they chose.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:08

Well, but it's also showing we can shut you down. We can we can blow you up. Yeah. We can so the this physicist says, you know, everyone thinks they're friendly. He says, you know, you think about when you have ants, and if the ants are in the back of your yard, you really don't bother about them. But when the ants get into your house, then they need to be destroyed. We are moving closer and closer, especially with the reverse engineering, yeah, to the technology that these people already have. When are we moving from their backyard into their house? And so this really is now that they're finally disclosing stuff, this really is a national security. I don't know if there's anything we can do about it because they're so far advanced.

SPEAKER_04 1:30:50

Yeah, that's that's kind of the unfortunate thing. If it's a threat, it's a threat that we just kind of look at and go, oh yeah, we could die at any time.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:56

Well, and and it really opens us up to the fact that we are not the alpha anymore. We are so not the alpha because there is something out there. Whether this out there means at the bottom of the ocean or out there means a wormhole away or whatever, we don't know that yet. We don't know a lot yet. But there's so much, but it is we need to be informed, we need to be aware, and and we need to be open to things that we might not have thought possible.

SPEAKER_04 1:31:30

Yep, yeah. And on that bombshell, we're gonna go ahead and say thank you guys for joining us up here in the attic. Um and watch the skies. Yeah. That's good. Watch the skies. Watch the skies.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:44

Bye.

SPEAKER_04 1:31:44

See you guys.