Don’t Leave the Trail: The Rules of the Appalachian Mountains, Part 1

There are some rules people don’t question.

Don’t whistle in the woods at night. Don’t answer when something calls your name. Don’t leave the marked trail. And if you see a strange light moving between the trees… don’t follow it.

In this episode, we begin our deep dive into the so-called “Rules of the Appalachian Mountains,” separating modern internet horror from practical wilderness advice and older folklore. Along the way, we explore Cherokee stories, mountain warnings, hidden paths, strange music in the woods, and personal encounters with lights that seemed to beckon from the darkness.

This is Part 1 of our look at Appalachian rules, folklore, and the unsettling idea that some warnings survive for a reason.

If you’re interested in:

•  Appalachian folklore 
•  Paranormal encounters 
•  Missing persons mysteries 
•  Wilderness survival myths 

This episode is for you.

New episodes released regularly.

Join Paranormal Mystery Author Terri Reid and researcher Andrew T. Reid as they explore ghosts, cryptids, alien encounters, and other unexplained mysteries.

If you'd like to share your opinion, thoughts, or your own paranormal experience with us, please contact us at vftattic@gmail.com. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

There are rules people don't question.

SPEAKER_09 0:04

Don't whistle in the woods at night.

SPEAKER_02 0:06

Don't answer when you hear your name called. Don't follow something you can't quite see. Most people hear them and forget them. Except for one man.

SPEAKER_09 0:20

He was hiking alone just before dusk, not far off the trail. Close enough to hear the wind move through the trees. Close enough to think he was safe. That's when he heard it. His name, clear, familiar, right behind him. He turned. Nothing. Just trees.

SPEAKER_02 0:44

Just shadows. Then it came again, closer this time. He laughed. Just nerves, he told himself. Probably someone else on the trail. So he answered. Hello. The forest went quiet. Not normal quiet. Not birds settling quiet.

SPEAKER_09 1:07

Empty. And then something moved. Not toward him, around him. Slow, careful, like it had been waiting for him to speak first. They found his pack the next morning. Still zipped, still full, sitting just off the trail. No sign of him.

SPEAKER_02 1:33

Just one thing out of place.

SPEAKER_09 1:36

Press deep into the dirt beside it. A second set of footprints. That began right where his ended.

SPEAKER_03 1:47

Listen closely, old walls still speak. Some things are hidden, not to be forgotten, but to be kept.

SPEAKER_09 1:56

The old house remembers what others forget.

SPEAKER_03 2:00

What is remembered is never true.

SPEAKER_09 2:04

Listen closely, and you too may just hear Voices from the Attic.

SPEAKER_02 2:20

Hi, welcome to Voices from the Attic.

SPEAKER_04 2:25

I am Andrew T. Reed. I am an editor, a researcher, a little bit of a writer, a dabble here and there, a son, and a big old giant nerd.

SPEAKER_02 2:38

You know, when I picture big old giant nerds, it's like not that the rock is a nerd, but that's big old giant. Vin Diesel is a good thing. Vin Diesel is a big giant nerd. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 2:48

Well I he plays DD, which I think I I love that about him personally. That makes me like him more. So what part does he play? Like something that kills things? Look, everything in DD can kill things.

SPEAKER_02 3:01

Okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 3:02

That's there. Everyone's a murder hobo, at least in one campaign.

SPEAKER_02 3:06

All right.

SPEAKER_04 3:07

Okay. It's just how it is.

SPEAKER_02 3:08

Hi, I'm Terry Reed. I'm an author. I'm a researcher now. Uh um a novice podcaster. Um, I'm getting um I'm getting better.

SPEAKER_04 3:19

You know, it's it's we're we're becoming professionals.

SPEAKER_02 3:22

We're getting there, we're trying. We're trying, we're trying. Um, but you know what? One of the comments was that they like our giggling back and forth. So I'm so glad because I don't think we can cut that out.

SPEAKER_04 3:37

No.

SPEAKER_02 3:38

Um, and I'm a mom. I'm Andrew's mom. So um welcome, welcome. We want to do a little bit of business first before we get into a little bit of housekeeping, as as other podcasts. Oh, is that what they call it?

SPEAKER_04 3:50

Housekeeping. Yeah, that's what uh that's what take take a take a shot as I say this. That's what astonishing legends. Oh, well then if they say it, it's gotta be right. Yeah, it's gotta be correct.

SPEAKER_02 4:01

So um we have been really uh amazed and gratified at the subscribers that we have.

SPEAKER_05 4:08

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 4:09

At the number of people who have been viewing our podcasts. It's like, whoa. I know people like us. Well but we as we said, we're new at this, so we're trying to figure some things out. So we're gonna ask for your help. Um, first, um, one of the podcasts, um, the ones about mimics, like really took off.

SPEAKER_04 4:29

It just shot forward. I I do have some theories about why that one specifically shot forward, but that's theories. We don't exactly know.

SPEAKER_02 4:39

So if you if you watch that one and you liked it and there was a reason that you like it better than the other ones, or or if there are certain things, we'd love to hear from you. Yeah, to say, okay, well, I like this, or this keeps me entertained. We will entertain you. What's that what's that quote? Are you entertained? Are you not entertained? Right, right. Um, oh, and I forgot to introduce Ash. Hey, we have Ash, who is the knower of all things.

SPEAKER_01 5:07

Yes, he's the Oracle, Ash.

SPEAKER_04 5:09

Yeah, pay no attention to the man behind the camera.

unknown 5:11

I love that.

SPEAKER_04 5:13

Actually, do when he talks, do pay attention because he knows stuff. He he does.

SPEAKER_02 5:17

He's he's wise in many things. He's Ash GPT, he knows it all. So, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:23

Well, that that's probably not a good way to go.

SPEAKER_02 5:27

It's better than that.

SPEAKER_01 5:28

Yeah, there we go.

SPEAKER_02 5:29

He doesn't just say, good idea.

SPEAKER_04 5:32

He doesn't just validate you a lot. Although he does validate us.

SPEAKER_02 5:36

We do need validation. Yeah, so anyway, speaking of validation, if you wouldn't mind commenting, telling us what you like, uh, and what you don't like, and specifically like the mimic thing. What what was it about that that podcast so we can emulate that? And then I have a question um specifically for my readers, followers. I'm really thinking about um stopping my Freaky Friday blog because I'm spending so much time researching podcasts and not Freaky Friday. Tell me if if you've kind of changed Freaky Friday to the podcast, you know, and if that would make a huge difference in your life.

SPEAKER_04 6:19

I mean, we could you could still upload a Freaky Friday, but just have it be like a podcast script, or just a little summary of the podcast within a link to the podcast.

SPEAKER_02 6:29

Well, there you go. That but I am linking already to my Facebook page.

SPEAKER_04 6:34

So right, that's true. But I mean, if there are people who watch who listen or who um, oh my goodness. There are people who read We are professionals. I'm good at talking, guys. I I I'd talk good.

SPEAKER_02 6:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 6:47

Um no, if there are people who read the blog but who don't podcast. Who don't listen to the podcast, it might be good not only to get a a summary of what the podcast is before they listen, but also, you know, it's it's a it's a good reminder. Hey, this is like that content, but more.

SPEAKER_02 7:06

And it live and in person. Well, you know, we might not be live and in person when you're we're live right now, but not when you're listening. Right. So anyway, so like, subscribe, share, all of those good things. Thanks for being here.

SPEAKER_04 7:20

Yeah, especially I think one of the big things, obviously, try to follow us wherever you can, whether it's you know, through your podcasting app or through YouTube or whatever, but also I think a huge part is sharing it with all your friends. I think that would be the biggest help. If if you would like to see us be able to tackle some bigger topics, or you know, if if you like us to if honestly, if you want to see more content from us, the best thing you could do is share this with more people so that you know we're able to, I guess, get the financial support, I'll say it. So we can eventually be able to get the financial support to be able to do this more regularly, more of a full-time basis, so that we can, you know, have this be something that is right now. We're we're putting a lot of our time and effort into this because we think that it this is an awesome podcast, and we and we've loved what we've been able to see so far from the audience, and we're hoping for it to grow. And so the best way to do that is just to share it with everyone that you can. We're we're doing our best on our on our end, and uh, you know, we just want to make sure that this podcast has the best quality it can for you guys.

SPEAKER_02 8:35

Thanks. Okay. I I and and sorry if you saw me looking around at my notes. I have I we've got a lot of notes. We've got a lot of notes, but I wanted to start.

SPEAKER_04 8:46

So today we're gonna be talking about rules. Before we do this, I also before we launch into the episode proper, one more bit of housekeeping. And this this um this is very on a very serious note.

SPEAKER_02 8:59

Should we have music behind it?

SPEAKER_04 9:01

Like if I edit that in, then it's playing now. Um, I'm not gonna promise myself more work. But it might be playing it, so we'll see. Anyway, it on a very serious note, as we've talked about, we are trying our best to make this the best show for you. And as many of you may know, I'm the editor of this, and so I noticed, especially last week, but I think throughout the series in general, as as I've edited various episodes, I've had to confront myself, my sins, my shortcomings, my horrible mistakes.

SPEAKER_02 9:49

My favorite phrases.

SPEAKER_04 9:52

Phrases that I use very often as I'm thinking of what to say next. So here's a fun thing about me a lot of people have like an internal dialogue going on in their head. I don't think that way. I generally think with images, I do have an internal dialogue sometimes, but not usually this. And so as I think, that's why there's a lot of pauses and things like that. Because I'm actually, you're seeing in real time me processing my thoughts. And so I will often say vamp phrases like the interesting thing about that is, and I noticed I said that I didn't count because I'm a coward. I didn't want to see how often I said it, but I said it, I had to have said it at least 10 times, probably a lot a lot more.

SPEAKER_02 10:35

So when we do our merch, we're gonna have a t-shirt that says the interesting thing about that is the interesting thing about that is it's kind of like astonishing legends there. Well, if you believe any of this.

SPEAKER_04 10:48

Yeah, if you believe if if any of this at all. At all. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:50

So we'll just have the interesting thing about that is we turned this into a positive.

SPEAKER_04 10:56

It's gonna be merch. We turned a problem into an opportunity.

SPEAKER_02 11:00

Exactly right. So the interesting thing about that is we just turned a problem into an opportunity.

SPEAKER_04 11:07

Now, I'm going to try my best to avoid saying that. I'm gonna ask both my mom and also Ash to keep me accountable and also you to keep me accountable, to try to not say that phrase. I might say it, but I will try my best to only say it when things when I'm actually talking about the interesting thing about that.

SPEAKER_02 11:28

You know, we have that game, Ash, where it's like you can hit people with this inflatable club.

SPEAKER_04 11:35

Oh, uh uh poetry for Neanderthals? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:38

So we could like for the next podcast, we could just bring clubs. And every time you say that, whacka, whack a Andrew. But not this time, not this time, because we didn't get prepared for that.

SPEAKER_01 11:49

Yeah, I was thinking of a less violent route. Maybe like, I don't know, a bell or something. Oh, ding.

SPEAKER_04 11:55

A bell could end up getting violent, but more on my but also I did ask, and so I will also make sure not to get it frustrated when I am corrected because I will need it. I do need correction every once in a while.

SPEAKER_02 12:06

And every time a bell rings, uh, an angel gets its wings.

SPEAKER_04 12:10

That is true.

SPEAKER_02 12:11

So we we are helping, you know.

SPEAKER_04 12:14

Nerf blaster?

SPEAKER_10 12:16

Super soaker.

SPEAKER_04 12:18

I don't know about the angel lore about nerf blasters or super soakers. Well, also, I'm wearing a white shirt underneath, and so I don't know if uh I don't I don't want to get blasted with a super soaker.

SPEAKER_10 12:28

Oh, I'd go for the face.

SPEAKER_04 12:29

Oh, okay. Thanks. I'll have to get like windshield wipers for my uh for my eyeglasses. Um, but yes, so anyway, all that being said, thank you for watching, even though I did all of those things. Uh thank you for still sticking around.

SPEAKER_05 12:48

Anyway, yeah, and that's that's my only that's your housekeeping.

SPEAKER_04 12:52

That's my last bit of housekeeping. Okay. You guys are awesome. And uh keep it up.

SPEAKER_02 12:58

All right. Now we're gonna do this uh podcast today um about rules. And I found this really cool quote, and then I'll turn it over to Andrew so he can discuss the rules.

SPEAKER_10 13:13

But as Tolkien once said, pay heed to the tales of old wives. It may well be that they alone keep in memory what is once needful for the wise to know.

SPEAKER_04 13:30

I mean, honestly, any quote from Tolkien. Well, that's true. Uh especially when we're talking about this particular subject, which we will get into. He's he's awesome. He all of the lore from Middle Earth is are are borrowed concepts and ideas that have been kind of formulated. But he I mean, when it comes to world building, especially world building based off of other existing mythology, right? Token is he's the master. He was the first.

SPEAKER_02 14:03

Yeah, yes.

SPEAKER_04 14:04

I mean, he he did it first, he did it best. Uh, there's so much, and and you can tell because you know, they're the Samarillion is just an encyclopedia of lore. Right. And I love that. He talk about world building. I mean, obviously nowadays we've got other authors that do world building as well. Brandon Sanderson has rules of world building, and I think he's got a lot of good rules, but you know, he did it before the rules, he made the rules, and I and I appreciate him for it. I I'm still learning a lot of interesting things to this day. Um, one of the interesting things, it's just a complete tangent, like this whole thing. Did you know that Gandalf? Have I told you this a little bit? The name Gandalf actually comes from there's in the I want to say it's the Poetic Edda or the prose Edda. I don't remember which Edda it is, which is uh essentially everything we know about Norse mythology, both of us. There is a section of it's just a bunch of names, but they're dwarf names. Oh, yeah. I believe he's a dwarf king in Norse mythology as well. But it goes through a bunch of lists. Gandalf is one of the names of the dwarfs, and so he borrowed that name and gave it to the wizard, who's also kind of an angel as well. Cool. So anyway.

SPEAKER_02 15:26

Cool, isn't that uh Tolkien's background was um he's a linguist. That's okay.

SPEAKER_04 15:34

Yeah, ancient ancient languages and mythology. But also mythology. I mean, uh when it comes to culture and language, they are so closely connected. And culture's also very closely connected to mythology. And so, and I think also he just had an interest in in all of it. I mean, you know, even before Middle Earth was being made, he was writing poems about elves and whatnot, and you know, anyway. Going back, yeah. I we could do a whole podcast on how awesome token is, but that's not why we're here today. Well, why we're here today is because um that story that my mom told you guys about um about the the rules the cold open. Yeah, the cold open.

SPEAKER_02 16:20

And and did you specifically mention Appalachia Appalachian or Appalachia?

SPEAKER_04 16:29

I'm gonna do this real quick because I've heard it both ways. I want to know what the true pronunciation for Appalachia or Appalachia. I think it's Appalachia, but we'll see. Um how oh that's not how you spell how?

SPEAKER_02 16:42

How to So while he's looking that up, we're gonna talk about it. Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_04 16:48

Appalachia. That's not helpful. Is that La La La? La La Okay Appalachian. So Appalachia? Appalachian. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 17:00

Go right ahead now.

SPEAKER_04 17:02

Okay. So did you did you mention uh Appalachia though?

SPEAKER_02 17:09

No, I did not in the cold old day. It was just somebody walking in the woods not doing what he was supposed to do.

SPEAKER_04 17:13

That's fair, that's fair. This this whole episode is heavily inspired on the this internet phenomena?

unknown 17:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_10 17:27

Phenomena.

SPEAKER_04 17:29

No, uh, it's based on this internet phenomena that's been going around about the Appalachian Mountains called the Rules of Appalachia. I've I've seen a lot of different people talk about them uh both on on podcasts and on various internet forums and posts and everything. And I was very curious because a lot of these rules sound very modern, but I was curious to see if these modern rules have any folklore background.

SPEAKER_02 18:03

You know, the other thing we were gonna talk about, too, because Andrew and I discussed some of the ideas that we had for these podcasts, you know, months before we started the podcast. Yeah. And talking about the Appalachian Mountains and the rules of the Appalachian Mountains was one of those rules. And then all of a sudden, everybody around us is doing these podcasts about.

SPEAKER_04 18:26

That's so interesting. There were a lot of different podcasts from people that you know I listen to, people who you know are paranormal podcasters and also people who aren't necessarily who are kind of adjacent. And I will say, unfortunately, with the people who are adjacent, there have has been some misinformation. And so that's also part of the reason why I want to do this podcast as well. I I I think it's important as we go over some of this information. There's a lot of information that's out there that is either exaggerated or completely incorrect. And so I would love to see what the true folkloric background for all these things are. Um want to go over that. Also dispel some of the common myths and problems, um, specifically when it comes to the Appalachian.

SPEAKER_02 19:13

But we also are talking about that whole Zeitgeist thing. Yeah. There's there's these um ideas floating in this ether and and they touch you and and but then then they also go and touch everyone else too. Touch other people too. And highly intrusive. It was so we want to sometime do kind of like that whole zeitgeist idea of of you know, do we all is there's this collective that we all are connected to? And so anyway, that's another one.

SPEAKER_04 19:42

But are we a hive mind?

SPEAKER_02 19:44

Are we a hive mind?

SPEAKER_04 19:45

I hope not.

SPEAKER_02 19:46

I I don't I the way I come up with ideas, I doubt it. I you know, people look at me and say, Are you weird? And I say, Why, thank you.

SPEAKER_04 19:54

Yes, I though I would also argue that some of sometimes as you're talking about your writing, you you talk about you frame like um brain um not brain freeze, what's the term? Uh writer's block. Right. You you frame writer's block as like your friends not talking to you. Or sometimes you're you you've even said like as you're writing, sometimes the characters will go in a different direction that you weren't expecting. Right. And that I I don't have that experience. That sounds more to me like maybe tapping into the zeichist a little bit where you're tapping into potentially real people's personalities, and you're, you know, maybe not the real stories themselves, but maybe like real personalities and then putting them in this fictional scenario.

SPEAKER_02 20:48

I you know, I I have to say my my stories are I run unlike your, you know, how your mind works. I I have a TV show running in my mind. So like like my show.

SPEAKER_05 21:01

My like my mind. Maybe.

SPEAKER_02 21:02

And and so when I get stuck, like, oh, what are they supposed to do? I'll take like a quick 15-minute nap and I run, I run, you know, the commercial ends, and I can start the TV show up again. And my characters will actually, it's like, oh, okay, that's what's supposed to happen. The weirdest thing is I remember my husband walking through, and I'm sitting behind my computer, you know, tapping, and he walks past me and I'm laughing, and he looks at me and he says, What's so funny? And I say, Oh, Mike just stole the funniest joke.

SPEAKER_04 21:36

And Mike is a character in her books.

SPEAKER_02 21:38

That's right. So um, maybe I I don't like to think that uh that I'm part my mind is part of the Zeitgeist, though. It that freaks me out. I I want it, I think I want it closed off. I don't want other people peeking in there.

SPEAKER_04 21:51

If if you don't recognize it, then I I would imagine that most other people wouldn't recognize it too. But that's uh that's that's gonna be a topic we're gonna discuss in that episode. That was a sneak preview to an episode we haven't done yet.

SPEAKER_02 22:04

Yeah, so let's talk about Yeah, so but you're right.

SPEAKER_04 22:06

It would this has been circulating a lot and it's recently picked up a lot of traction now, I guess. A lot of people are talking about it. And so we are also gonna talk about it, but we're not doing it because they did. We did it because we want to. That's that's actually, yeah, that's what the whole conversation is.

SPEAKER_02 22:23

Interesting. It's gonna be interesting to see because we research independently. Poor Andrew. Andrew tries to send me outlines and tell me, so mom, we're gonna be doing this and this and this. And then he says, So mom, what did you do? And it's never this and this and this. It's like, oh, oh yeah, we do talk about that. But instead, I did. So it'll be a very interesting compilation of research and facts and stories.

SPEAKER_04 22:47

And well, I also have stories as well. It's not deep dive, but I definitely deep dive.

SPEAKER_02 22:55

So yeah, so we we will yeah, but I was gonna say there on Reddit, as I'm I was looking at four stories, there's a lot of people from Appalachia who come in and say, This is ridiculous. I've lived here all my life and nothing like this has ever happened to me. But then you also get people that say, Well, hey, wait, no, I've lived here all my life and this stuff happened to me. And can I just say, so, you know, I we have I have seven children. We've lived in this house for some some children longer than other children because they were born here, but you know, so 35-ish years. I've seen I've seen at least a couple ghosts, I've heard more than that, I've had all these experiences in the same house. There are people who lived here who have never had those experiences. So I don't think just because you haven't had it makes it impossible for other people to have had these experiences and for their experiences to to also be true and valid.

SPEAKER_04 24:04

Absolutely. I think, but especially when it comes to uniquely when it comes to the Appalachian, Appalachian region, I think it is a lot about location, location, location. Right. You know, how how as as we're talking about these ones in particular, um, how close are you to the the forested mountain regions and things like that? But also, I think just a a broad sweeping generalization for all the supernatural and paranormal experiences tend to be, especially when it comes to ghosts and those kinds of things, how open are you to those experiences? Yeah, and and often any paranormal experience tends to be very personal. And a lot of them, if you try to explain it to somebody else, it kind of sounds a little silly because it doesn't hit them the same way that it hit you in that moment.

SPEAKER_02 24:54

Exactly. And I have to say, when I on my Facebook page, like a couple months ago, when we first started talking about this, I put out something and asked my readers about these kinds of rules and experiences. And I had people who lived in Idaho who lived off out uh, you know, off of the Teton Mountains, yeah, who had similar rules, who had similar experiences. So even though we're actually he's focusing on the epilepsy. I'm focusing on the mom did the oh yeah, something like that. Anyway, even though we talk about that, it seems like there's kind of an issue in in many mountains, or or maybe it's just many wildernesses.

SPEAKER_04 25:36

I wouldn't say issue. I don't think issue is the right word, but but something. The rules you should follow. Yes, the rules apply. The rules uh don't always apply. You know, so some of these rules at least okay. So let me back up. Let me talk about the rules that we're talking about. So um here are the common rules that I found. Number one, never be in the woods from dusk until dawn. Number two, never leave the market trail. Rule number three, if you hear voices close to you, they're far away. But if the voices are far away, then they're near. Rule number four, do not whistle or single in the woods. Rule number five, never look too hard into the trees. And then this one is an unofficial one that I didn't specifically cover, but I think is a is a broad one that other rules already kind of apply, but I this is a very common thing that I've seen in a lot of different forums. If you heard something in the woods, no, you didn't.

SPEAKER_02 27:00

So can I add to your rules? Absolutely. So there's a a fellow who's called Wielder of the Darkness on Reddit, and he has some rules from Appalachia that he's copied. After dusk, whistle when you pass a graveyard to stop spirits from following you.

SPEAKER_04 27:18

These are very these that sounds closer to an actual specific like a true one. Yeah. The creepypasta is scattered all over. So this is I'm I like this. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 27:33

This is conversely, hold your breath when passing a graveyard so you don't breathe in someone's soul. You'll be able to tell which of the two is appropriate because you can't really whistle and hold your breath at the same time.

SPEAKER_04 27:46

That's true. So that's true. I'm now every time I go through a cemetery, I'm gonna go like uh um uh from Hocus Pocus. I forget the the sister's name, Sanderson's sisters, and I'm just gonna trying to suck up all the souls.

SPEAKER_02 28:02

Then you'll yeah, you don't want to you don't want to breathe in someone's soul. It gives you indigestion.

SPEAKER_04 28:06

But what if they're tasty?

SPEAKER_02 28:08

No, gives you indigestion. What is an irritable bowel syndrome?

SPEAKER_04 28:14

I'm sure that would be an irritable uh book uh boogie, because a lot of uh some of the some of the the the boogies, haints, and witches are so boogers. Boog boogers, yeah, boogers. So an irritable booger syndrome.

SPEAKER_02 28:28

Okay. When you're a visitor, leave the person's house by the same door you entered, or you're inviting bad things into their home.

SPEAKER_04 28:36

That is one that I've seen in a lot of different supernatural or superstition guides, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:41

If you hear or sense something in your home while you're in bed, pretend to be asleep. Do not leave the bed until sunrise for anything if this happens. You know, and I always wondered about that. You know, you think you hear something in your room, so you pull up the blankets like a cotton cloth is gonna protect you from something, but we all do it. So do not sleep on your back if you're in bed alone.

SPEAKER_04 29:10

Science would disagree with that. Well, I'm well, I and I and that's not the only one that science will disagree with, but lore as we'll talk about, lore does suggest.

SPEAKER_02 29:21

If you look into a mirror too long, you might bring something unsavory into your home. Well, crap. That goes back to the, you know, like the Mary Worth kind of thing where okay, so this is Chicago Catholic school.

SPEAKER_04 29:36

Sure.

SPEAKER_02 29:36

You go into your bathroom, you turn off the lights, you look in the mirror, and you say, I believe in Mary Worth, like three times, and she comes out of the mirror and scratches your face.

SPEAKER_04 29:45

It's I that has now evolved into Bloody Mary.

SPEAKER_02 29:50

Okay, and I think she had the same same idea.

SPEAKER_04 29:52

I'm they're both Mary's. Yeah. I'd imagine I'm I'm guessing Mary Worth evolved into Bloody Mary. Right. Both of which, I mean, Bloody Mary is a lot.

SPEAKER_02 30:01

Well, and when she scratches your face, you're bloody. So that would be a good connotation.

SPEAKER_04 30:05

Okay. And you're gonna probably need a Bloody Mary after that experience.

SPEAKER_02 30:09

If you hear tapping on your window, do nothing to let it know you hear it. Don't hear you, can't hear you. That's what I'm listening. Um, and then the la the last one, I think, yes, that really kind of creeped me out. Make sure you have a full tank of gas if you're driving at night in the rain. Sometimes you'll find yourself on a road that goes on much longer than it should, and you will be the only car on this road. Do not stop your car when this happens. You have to keep driving at least until you see another car. That's how you know it's safe and everything is back to normal.

SPEAKER_04 30:56

Holy cow. I that gave me shivers. I love that one. Yeah. That one's good. That one's good. Okay. Now, yeah, like I was saying, that a lot of those sound a lot closer to the so one of the books that I found is um is North Carolinian folklore. Okay. Uh, and it's there's a section that's just superstition. They're also getting to some of these, just you know, a lot of bad luck. It's bad luck to do this, bad luck to do that. Um, and also a lot of them about death. If you do such and such, then you'll die. Um, and it's like, well, technically you're not wrong because everyone dies. And so if I do anything, I someday you're gonna die. Someday I'm gonna die. But I do think it's uh some of those, yeah, the I it it's not as definite. And that's one of the one of the the I guess red flags when it comes to these specific rules that you know I'll we'll I did most of my research on. Yeah, uh, they they don't sound too they don't sound close enough to original folklore because they are too hard and fast. It's never do this. Never do this. Okay, never do this. A lot of folklore, it's less don't ever do this, and more if you do this, here are the consequences. Right. Or typically like it's it's not a if you don't ever do this. It's just it's it's advised against to do that, or you're gonna have bad luck. It's mostly bad luck, a lot of bad luck.

SPEAKER_02 32:26

A thought came to mind as we were talking about this, uh, and and especially the the comment you made, um, haint. Yes. So there and I think it's it's either in the Appalachian area or the south, there's they paint the roofs of their porches haint blue. And actually, I think Sherwin Williams a couple years ago came out with the color haint blue. And I I think it has something to do with having the spirits go up into the air and not come into your house or something like that. I did you find that?

SPEAKER_04 33:02

It's funny enough, this is another one of those i situations. I believe actually, I I don't know if it was a recent one or if it was just an episode I I listened to recently, but Song Legends mentioned it in one of their things, Haint Blue. And I think even though it's called Haint Blue, which is you know uh more of a southern term, right? I believe it actually originated from the spiritualist movement. Uh where there was a specific shade of blue that seems to um I guess repel spirits. And so a lot you'll see a lot of Victorian houses from around that period who will have that shade of blue on their deck.

SPEAKER_09 33:42

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 33:43

Uh because they don't want spirits to come into their home home. And so I think very interesting. Um I when I heard the term, I went, oh man, that sounds super cool. I want to paint our house with that. And then I heard the whole reason why, which is you know, to repel spirits. I'm like, ah, never mind. I don't want that.

SPEAKER_02 34:00

We like spirits. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 34:01

As long as they're friendly, good spirits, friendly, friendly, like Casper.

SPEAKER_02 34:04

We're really looking for a house health that will clean. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 34:08

I don't know. I don't know. When you look into the lore of those things, like, yes, they're awesome to clean, but also, man, they are almost too much. They they they cost too much, they're more than they're worth. Okay. Well, then never mind. I I I retract that statement. If if you insult them once, then you're gonna get sour milk. A lot of sour milk. Or bloody milk. Anyway. You go ahead. Yeah. So so going back to so let me Oh, I actually have a few more.

SPEAKER_02 34:38

Oh, geez. You got a lot of rules. No, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_04 34:40

It's all good. It's all good.

SPEAKER_02 34:41

Okay, so this was if you hear anything in the woods that you can't immediately attribute to a friend or family member, leave the area immediately.

SPEAKER_04 34:50

Interesting.

SPEAKER_02 34:51

And that we'll talk about that when you talk about dogmen next week.

SPEAKER_04 34:55

Well, we're gonna talk about that with here too.

SPEAKER_02 34:57

Oh, good. Okay. Always close the door to the well house. So a well house is where somebody would have their well, you know, the big thing where they would gather, get their water. So always close the door to the well house. This has practical reasons. You don't want some poor animal falling in. But I was also told leaving the door open invited bad spirits to get into the well water. And you just don't want to be drinking. It's like the sucking in bad spirits.

SPEAKER_04 35:25

You don't want to be drinking just tainted with the haint, you know.

SPEAKER_02 35:28

Blue lights at night mean a spirit is watching over you. Any other color is bad.

SPEAKER_08 35:36

That's interesting. There's a story. Oh, good.

SPEAKER_04 35:38

I love this. Wait, wait. So it's blue light is good? Blue light is good. It means the spirit's watching over you. It doesn't specify the color in the story.

SPEAKER_02 35:47

Any other color is bad.

SPEAKER_04 35:49

I I don't think it's blue though.

SPEAKER_02 35:51

Oh, then that's bad. Always leave at least one plant of each crop in the ground at harvest. Um, he said this the fellow who's writing this said, I don't know if this was grandpa messing with me or what, but it's supposed to ward off bad spirits. Almost sounds like an offering. Yeah. Oh, yeah. And we do that. We have volunteer tomatoes every year because we uh not on purpose. Now we will those out. Yes. If you wake up with a headache, it means the devil is trying to get you.

SPEAKER_04 36:26

Well, crap. So does that count for people who take ADHD medication?

SPEAKER_02 36:31

I I have no idea. You should, yeah. Okay. Drink a lot of water, guys.

SPEAKER_09 36:37

Drink.

SPEAKER_02 36:39

So um final. Don't go outside at night. Don't whistle at night. If anything calls your name and you know you're alone, don't answer it. Which, yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 36:53

So a lot of those correspond with a lot of these. So we're gonna, yeah. So so what I wanted to do in this episode, uh, I want to talk about the the six main rules. Let me go over them again. Never be in the woods from dusk until dawn. Never leave the marked trail. If you hear voices close to you, they're far away. But if the voices are far away, then they're near. Do not whistle or sing in the woods. Never look too hard into the trees. Those are the big ones that we'll be covering, though we'll be getting into a lot of the weeds of them individual as we talk about individual rules. But I wanted to talk about each of these rules and go over the research we found and determine if we think the rule falls into one of these three categories based in real appalachian folklore, or just any folklore in general. Two. Uh or so the second category, if it's plausibly based in real folklore but heavily exaggerated.

SPEAKER_02 37:49

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 37:49

Or three, completely made up. You know, like whose line is it anyway? Uh everything, uh, everything's made up and the points don't matter. Right. Um, now just it's something that we discussed in the last episode, and I just like to reclarify. When I say folklore, that doesn't mean made-up stories. It means stories that have been passed down from generations that probably have a basis in truth. They might have been changed as they've been passed down orally, but I'm going to be using the term folklore. That doesn't, like I said, that doesn't mean they're made up stories.

SPEAKER_02 38:20

Because I don't think they're not fairy tales. There's a difference between a fairy tale and folklore. Yes.

SPEAKER_04 38:25

Although some fairy tales that originated from folklore. Exactly. Okay. Exactly. Yeah. And just, you know, just like mythology. Some mythology is, I won't say made up necessarily, but but a lot of mythology has parts where it's explanations on things because people couldn't understand it. And I think folklore has some of that as well. But again, that doesn't mean that the stories and experiences are made up. It just means that we don't know what they are. And so I'm gonna be talking a lot about various different, you know, Native American, indigenous American uh tribes.

SPEAKER_10 38:58

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 38:59

And and so I'll I'll use the term folklore and mythology, but I'm not number one, I'm not saying with these, I'm not saying it's like uh it's you know the cause, or I I think one of the bad tropes that we've done every once in a while, not we, but uh Hollywood or or other writers have done is this was a Native American burial ground, and so you you messed up and now it's cursed. I'm not gonna do that. I'm not gonna say, I'm not gonna blame things on any indigenous tribes. What I will do is say, hey, these are some stories that indigenous tribes have have shared with various different researchers. So there could be some roots in there, because if if if there are experiences they have that parallel some experiences that other people have, that tells me there's potentially a pattern there. Right. So they might call something, have a name for something. Whether or not that's an accurate name, you know, it I guess we can never tell. But so that's so I'm gonna be talking about that. I'm not I'm not trying to other any of the the tribes.

SPEAKER_02 40:09

So well, and it was interesting because this week on Facebook, Jason Haas was posting about something, and somebody who was an indigenous person said that they're sick and tired of researchers, paranormal investigators, blaming some kind of activity on the fact that this used to be Native American land. And she said, Such a bad trope. And that's it. And she said, you know, we get blamed for a whole lot of stuff that it's just not true. It's just not there.

SPEAKER_04 40:37

And I think some of that can attribute to the white guilt a little bit, where it's like, you know, I we feel bad about taking your land, and so now everything that's bad is is, you know, because of that.

SPEAKER_02 40:50

Or and and we've kind of talked about this before. When you're trying to do a show, yeah, you come into, you know, as we said, we've lived here for 35 years. I can probably count, you know, maybe three to four dozen times where we've had paranormal experiences over 35 years. So it doesn't mean that you can walk into a place and the ghosts are going to do something on command.

SPEAKER_04 41:19

Dance for me, monkey.

SPEAKER_02 41:20

That's right. And so and if you yell, touch me, touch me.

SPEAKER_04 41:25

Sorry, that guy. And then if it actually touches you, don't freak out. Don't scream like a little girl.

SPEAKER_02 41:30

Anyway, um and you all know who we're talking about.

SPEAKER_04 41:34

Um but we won't say their name.

SPEAKER_02 41:35

No, but there there are you need to sell your show. I mean, because it's a it's a business. You need to sell your show, and so there are often some of these, oh, you just missed it camera views. Did you catch that? No. And sometimes there's really cool stuff, but sometimes it has to be exaggerated because they have to put out a show. And I think because of the limited time people have, and because they either can't or don't do the research, they can't or don't know the reason behind something. It's really it the whole indigenous thing is kind of like mayonnaise. You just spread it over the top and it clears everything up.

SPEAKER_04 42:18

It's like, oh well, yeah, it's probably because and and especially I think part of it as well is because you know, the the indigenous tribes are looked at as a more ancient and kind of a more magical group of people. Spiritual. Spiritual. I think they're looked in very similar to the way that uh that druids were looked at in in when in Celtic uh I won't say Celtic lore and Celtic mythology, because I think the people in there druids are probably looked at similar to shamans and whatnot, different. I right I I've done a lot of re as much research as what as one can do on druids and and bards and those things, but I think we look at them in a similar way, but because they're here and also because the names of the creatures that they have tend to have some pretty cool sounding names, but also we you know, I think a a big like Chicago smells like skunk. Is that really what Chicago? That's hilarious.

SPEAKER_02 43:21

Which it, you know, it it was what is it when you do something and they grow into that name or it's a that's true.

SPEAKER_04 43:28

I bet it didn't smell like skunk, but I bet now now it it probably does. And if it if it didn't before, after the marijuana laws passed, then uh probably definitely does now.

SPEAKER_02 43:38

It smells like weed. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 43:39

I mean those sorry weed and skunk probably smell pretty similar. Um but um I yeah, I lost my train of thought. Oh yeah, but like I I think it's very easy for for us to go like, oh yeah, they're they're an ancient magical group, and so they must know it must be them. Yeah, it must must be them or or They must know the what what it is. And it's like, no, that's that's not what we're saying. But we're what we are saying is that there are stories that they have, which means they've had experiences, and a lot of those experiences probably are paralleled with experiences that people experience. How many times can I say the word experience in a sentence before it gets you know what's interesting?

SPEAKER_02 44:20

But but the other thing is um they a lot of indigenous tribes don't readily share their information with people who either don't respect it or or can't understand it. And and so that could be also why, because they're not telling, so we're making stuff up.

SPEAKER_04 44:44

And I will say as well on that note, so I will be basing a lot of my research on um let me find it. It is I think it's here. I actually I I I I wanna I wanted to put this before, but I I ended up not. So uh a lot of my I'm gonna be talking a lot about Cherokee folklore specifically, which makes sense because that's who were in the Appalachian. Exactly, until you know, um Andrew Jackson. Right, Trail of Tears. Yep, kicked him out.

SPEAKER_02 45:21

Did we get that right, Ash?

unknown 45:24

Sure.

SPEAKER_02 45:24

Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_04 45:25

You heard it here, folks. We got it right. First time for everything. Yep.

SPEAKER_01 45:30

I'm a little fuzzy on that one, so you got me.

SPEAKER_04 45:33

If we got it wrong, let us know in the comments. Yep. As strongly worded as you can, make me cry, because I deserve it. Um so uh this a lot of my research is coming from James Mooney's 1902 book, Myths of the Cherokee. From I got it from Project Gutenberg because, you know, it's free. Um but from what I've seen on various different forums and whatnot, it may or may not be wholly accurate. Not that James Mooney James Mooney did the best research that he could. Uh, he was actually tasked, I believe, by the government to go and try to collect the stories of the Cherokee peoples, and I think other indigenous people as well, their their folklore, uh, for preservation purposes. But and while he was a great guy, it sounds like he didn't have any problems with any of the people he talked to, and he did it as respectfully as he could. It sounds like some of the Cherokee people might have fed here and there some misinformation to him on purpose, uh, because they don't want to share things with outsiders. Right. So I will try. I I I guess as I talk about some of these guys, as I talk about some of these myths and folklore and everything, just know that the caveat that he did get some good information. He did get good information. He also got some red herrings, and so keep in mind there might be some red herrings, and we don't know what the red herrings are, unless you are a member of the Cherokee Nation and you know the deep lore of the people because it sounds like unfortunately some of it has been lost. I hope that's not the case. Um, but you know, it yeah, so we don't know. And I'm just kind of going blindly assuming and hoping that the information that I have is not the red herring information.

SPEAKER_02 47:26

And then there's that other book, Tricks We Play on White People. So we're still waiting for that to come here from Amazon. Because then we'll know what the red herrings are.

SPEAKER_04 47:38

Do you think do you think that book might have been a trick? Did we just give her money to oh crap? Now you say it out loud. I guess it makes a lot of sense.

SPEAKER_02 47:50

Okay, so here we go.

SPEAKER_04 47:53

So um, one more interest uh one more note before we dive into the rules.

SPEAKER_08 48:01

These poor people are sitting here. I'm sorry this is an important start the stupid button.

SPEAKER_04 48:06

This is an important I think this is another important thing. Okay. The Appalachian region is freaking huge. And so we talk about Appalachian, the Appalachian Mountains, Appalachia. We're we don't want you to think that it's like one place in the South. It is 423 counties across 13 states. Say that again, because that was 423 counties across 13 states, and that's just in America. It goes up to to Canada, and technically it um it crosses into the archipelago of Saint Pierre and uh Michulan. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 48:44

Well, that was very nicely done.

SPEAKER_04 48:46

I maybe, hopefully, people up there who are listening, please let us know. Make me cry. Uh it but which are both uh French countries or French regions, or they're part of France.

SPEAKER_02 48:58

And we kind of had this discussion too a long, long time ago. Long, long time ago. We were this was like one big continent before it split.

SPEAKER_04 49:06

Yep, Pangea.

SPEAKER_02 49:06

And and oh, say the word say the name Pangea. Pangea.

SPEAKER_04 49:11

Yeah, but this this mountain range formed, I think, early into Pangea. So before it is technically called Pangea.

SPEAKER_02 49:19

So parts of the UK uh are also really part of that same mountain range that created the Appalachians.

SPEAKER_04 49:28

Yeah, that the ancient, ancient, ancient. There's another term for it. I forget the name of the term, but it is ash. An ancient. We're really picking on ash today. Uh it is an ancient, ancient, ancient uh big old superstructure mountain range that yeah, stretches into uh, I believe Ireland and that whole and and Germany, I think Scotland, Highlands of Scotland. Um I think a little bit of I don't remember if it was Iceland or Greenland. Um, one of those two as well. Anyway, yes, so but the Appalachian Mountain region is huge. Um, and so just note that they're not all the same. You know, we're we're gonna be talking about things probably mostly focused on, at least for me as I'm talking, probably mostly focused on southern uh Appalachian areas. And I've got some West Virginia stories and some for yeah, so and we definitely have to also include Pennsylvania um uh where is it? Yeah. So I talk about Alabamas, Georgias, Kentucky's, yeah. And also, um, you gotta have a little bit of Pennsylvania because how can you have discussions about Appalachian folklore if you don't include the Squonk?

SPEAKER_02 50:37

You're gonna have to explain that.

SPEAKER_04 50:39

You don't know the Squonk? No. Do you know the Squonk, Ash? It is my favorite um cryptid out there. Uh, you guys might, I hope some of you do know. It's it it's an ugly pig thing, but it knows, it's sentient enough to know as opposed to a cute pig thing. But like it's ugly, ugly. Oh, okay. So there are cute pigs. Go ahead. Yeah, I'm sorry. And but this, these squonks know that they're ugly. They they are self-aware enough that whenever you see them, they're always crying because of how ugly they are.

SPEAKER_09 51:11

Oh I know. That's why it's sad cryptic.

SPEAKER_04 51:14

I mean, you know, when I first heard about the squonk, I was like, same little guy.

SPEAKER_02 51:18

Okay, we're just gonna do a GoFundMe for squonk makeovers.

SPEAKER_01 51:23

So the squonks just basically read all the comments. Squonk is every YouTuber who's read their comment section.

SPEAKER_04 51:30

Absolutely. Right. Um Yeah, yeah, I know. It's a sad cryptid. Yeah, yeah. So that's uh one of those um I bet they're cute to other squonks.

SPEAKER_10 51:45

I don't think so.

SPEAKER_04 51:46

Sounds like it. If they if they know they're ugly, they know that their kind is also ugly.

SPEAKER_10 51:51

Yeah, but beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

SPEAKER_04 51:53

Oh, and they're crying about their their beauty.

SPEAKER_10 51:55

So I mean, you know, they need self-esteem lessons. Go fund me. Squonk self-esteem lessons.

SPEAKER_04 52:03

Okay, now we get to dive into the real stuff. The meat. So rule number one never be in the woods from dusk until dawn.

SPEAKER_02 52:14

Are we gonna vote first or are we gonna tell stories first?

SPEAKER_04 52:19

Um let's maybe let's let's decide. I mean, we both have researched different things, but what what do you what do you think?

SPEAKER_02 52:28

I I don't like that one because I've been camping at night, and that dust till dawn time is that's a cool time. You know, that's that's when you can sit outside, you can see the stars, you can hear the owls, you know, watch the dogmen run across the river. I mean, I I I and and but on the other hand, when we talked about feral people, and that guy was up in the woods in the middle of the night, that's when he was uh confronted by that feral man. So, I mean, in that case, and and I think the um the ranger kind of said, you know, don't go hunting by yourself at night, because I think it's that wording specifically.

SPEAKER_04 53:17

Excuse me. I think that wording it specifically is a key part of this because to me, this kind of reads as never be in the woods alone in an area you don't recognize, maybe at night.

SPEAKER_02 53:34

That's kind of a common sense thing to me. Exactly.

SPEAKER_04 53:36

So yeah, so so here's um a little bit of here's some of the research that I found out when it comes to this in a practical sense. Okay. Uh the National Park Service warns against hiking in the woods at night for a lot of different reasons. Uh the Appalachian Mountains are already notoriously dangerous. That's part of the appeal. I mean, you're going in there, you want to be like I hike the Appalachian Trails. Right. And I think I think some of these rules c kind of sound like they are specifically applied to the trails, which is a modern thing anyway. Um, but even still, just Appalachia in general. Um, so it's it's dangerous to go walking at night. Um because I mean, lack of visibility increases a lot of the dangers like terrain, uh, weather, water crossings, injury response. Also, animal encounters happen there. Yeah. Uh, especially especially black bears. Right. Um, they're, you know, it's harder to see them at night. And uh according to the National Park Service, the Smoky Mountains has one of the densest black bear populations in the region. So you don't want to be walking at night in the smoky mountains by yourself.

SPEAKER_02 54:51

Those all things those and that rule for those kinds of things just makes common sense. Exactly. You know, you and and you always hear about these people who they twisted an ankle or they broke a leg, but they were so far away and they weren't with anybody that they died because, you know, and and so it's like, why would you why would you do this alone? And and so I in that case I totally think that's a good rule.

SPEAKER_03 55:23

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 55:24

But I don't think that it it is a particularly paranormal rule. I don't think that spirits are more apt you don't, do you dun dun dun okay? Tell me.

SPEAKER_04 55:38

So the next thing, however, what are the spooky reasons? So let's um so in in Cherokee folklore, okay, there are a lot of different creatures encrypted, and and um I I don't want to talk about them yet because I they're really cool and I'm gonna bring them up later on. Um however there are a decent amount of Cherokee creatures that come out at night and that are dangerous. Um, you know, I I actually one that I will bring up, her her name is Spear Hand or Spear Fingers. I didn't write this one down. Okay. Um she's basically she's like a humanoid witch with like a stony stony skins, stony clothes. Uh she can shapeshift, but generally she looks like an old woman. Um and uh she will often try to find people who are isolated at night. Um and and this was especially bad, you know, during the seasons where some of the groups would go out uh hunting, and you know, when she sees the smoke, she'll kind of get a little closer and she'll try to isolate people and and she will use um her her one finger, hence the name, stone stony finger. Okay. And she will, you know, stab. Uh she also this this is another one where like you know, she's also a good example of to not leave the path and not to you know, because she will also lure children away as well. She'll be like, hey, come to my, you know, I've got I've got some treats for you, whatever.

SPEAKER_02 57:19

Come come to a Hansel and Gretel kind of thing.

SPEAKER_04 57:21

Very Hansel and Gretel coded, absolutely. And she'll, you know, right into the heart, generally speaking.

SPEAKER_02 57:25

Okay, so I just need to uh we're talking about this. This story came to mind if you don't mind. Absolutely. Um, true story. So uh before Andrew was born, um uh David was uh the baby, and so we had uh four children at that time, and David was six months old, and we decided that we would go camping up in Porcupine Mountain State Park. So again, mountains. Yeah. And and um we really didn't, you know, I think it was before the internet, so you know, or or early internet, so we really didn't do a lot of um research. We just thought, oh, this is cool. And so we rented a cabin, um, Greenstone cabin, Greenstone Falls cabin. You guys went there later when you were that was the cabin that Oh, was that the same cabin? Yeah, same cabin. Gorgeous cabin. Yeah, and uh so we we uh actually had to borrow uh my stepdad's car. He had a Bronco, and we had so we had a we had two people in diapers because Nathan and David are, you know, and we then we had I think so. Chris must have been like six and Jen was like eight. So you guys were all they they were all littles, and we thought that we were gonna be pulling up to this cabin parking and just carrying our stuff in from the car. So we get there and we we sign in. The ranger says it it was early, it was Easter time. It was Easter break. So we went up there and it would there was still a little bit of snow on the ground, it was a little chilly, and uh the ranger says, Okay, well, you go hiking with the kids, make sure you wash their faces real good so there's no peanut butter and jelly because the uh bears have just come out of hibernation and they're hungry. It's like, oh, I mean, we're we're from we're from Chicago at this point. We're Chicagoans. We didn't, you know, we say, Oh, okay. And then he shows us on the map where we can park our car, and then he shows us on the map where the cabin is, and it's like a mile and a half trek in from where we park our car. And we've got like coolers of food, and we've got boxes of diapers, and we've got cast iron pans, and so uh Richard and I, my husband and I pile as much stuff as we can on ourselves, and we have no idea what the trail is gonna be like. And uh we say to Jen, who's the oldest, we will be right back. And I know Jen does the the Jurassic Park, they left us probably the entire time we were Especially after the Park Ranger goes, Welcome to Michigan, the bears are hungry.

SPEAKER_08 1:00:03

I know, right? You look like a tasty morsa.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:06

So anyway, we we book it as fast as we can to that cabin. And there's like we're crossing streams, we're walking.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:15

I remember the hike that it was it was it's a hike. There's some intense portions. Yeah, you're right. There's a stream that you have to cross. I remember I got my socks wet during that during that trek. Don't yeah, make sure to have water socks if you never go to Perkiman Mountains. It's a beautiful place. It's gorgeous.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:30

We get up there, we you know, throw everything into the cabin, we run back to the car, the kids are hysterical. We get them, we make the trek again, and so you know, we set everything up. And so obviously, this is an isolated cabin. And so, and and the shutters are like heavy wooden shutters. I mean, you pull them close um because you don't want a bear to say, smells like bacon.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:58

So and the outhouse at that point in time wasn't the same because the when I was there, the the outhouse um had like cedar chips that you would put in. Yes, you would you would cover your you know, your waist.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:12

I think I think it was still cedar chips and too.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:15

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:15

So and so it's not like indoor plumbing. You have to go outside to you're pooping in the woods like the bears. That's right. Well, there's you know, it's a little bit more.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:24

It's a box in the woods, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:26

So get and and and so the cabin has like this lineup of bunks on it. And I think there's what six, eight bunks, but they they're all and um so everyone gets settled. It's late at night, and and we hear noise on the outside of the cabin, and on the inside of the cabin. And it's like um, so there's a wood, wood-burning stove, and it was like just coals, and all of a sudden, whoop, you know, it gets bigger, and then we hear these little like footsteps, and then we hear something on the roof, and you know, so you you you do what I said, you pretend you don't hear it, and you lift up the blanket and you covers up, covers up, and so the next morning there's a book there that you know you write in if you stay in the cabin. So we're flipping through the book, and all they talk about is the ghost of Greenstone Falls Cabin at night. So I don't know if it was one of the, you know, who that ghost is.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:27

Nobody did any research, but and it might not even be a ghost from somebody when it was uh Porcupine Mountains, right? It could have been something, something else.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:38

Yeah, we did see a porcupine when we were up there.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:41

I didn't actually I didn't know that those were in Porcupine Mountains. I thought that they were it was named Porcupine Mountains because the mountains look like a porcupine.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:47

It could be, but there's also porcupines that live there, and we saw one. So that was that was way cool. Anyway, so that is my oh yeah, things do happen in the middle of the forest at night. Especially, yeah, especially. I take back my vote.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:00

Um but though, to to your credit, because you mentioned this, and I do think that this is a bit of a counterpoint. Again, this is this is Cherokee. Um with the counterpoint never going to the woods. So he um the the author, Mooney, talks about pine knots, which is so he describes them as torches of seasoned pine knots are uh much in use among the Cherokee for lighting up the way on journeys along the difficult mountain trails by night. Owing to the accumulation of resin in the knots, they burn with a bright and enduring flame, far surpassing the cloudy glow of a lantern. So it's not so the Cherokee people specifically marked trails with with these pine knots so they could travel at night, which means they were out in the woods traveling at night. They just made sure that it was it was uh a path that was well known and well lit.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:59

So the pine knots are the same thing that we use fire starter woods. Oh that's the same thing because of the resin.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:05

Yes, they do they catch really well and they could burn very consistently. Yes, absolutely. That's cool. I didn't know that.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:12

Yay, I taught you something.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:15

Um so yeah, so I'm thinking that probably the never portion of it is is definitely fake. It's definitely, I mean, you know anything that says never is not gonna be, you know. Right. Um and also, you know, from dusk until dawn, I think any any group just say night.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:31

But I I do have to say there have been times, so we we have five acres and we have an acre or two in woods. And there are times in the summer genera, spring and summer, where I go to the edge of our woods at dusk. Yeah. And I do get a very strong feeling that I am not welcome there. And it it is just a very and and in our woods? In our woods. There there have been times where I've stood and think, yeah, I'm uh this is not my woods right now. And so I don't know what I mean, it's not mountains. We're we're in the middle of the middle of the wood Midwest, but but there is like a you don't need to come in here right now feeling.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:16

Interesting. And I think a lot of woods have that kind of can have that kind of vibe in general. Right. Um Yeah. So I I think I think maybe a better interpretation for this rule would probably be um look what I actually wrote in my notes. I I flipped to the next page like an idiot. Um so I think here's here's a a good takeaway from this particular rule. The woods are way more dangerous after dark. Um and mountain travel especially can be extra disorientating. I mean, mountain travel already alone is pretty disorienting. Right. Um you can get turned around easily, and so at night it's it's worse. Um, and there are plenty of folklore that teach us, um, you know, both both from indigenous people and also from settlers. I don't know if there's any any bits of night from I guess uh bits of folklore from like about night things happening from uh I guess the old world, like Europe and those kinds of do you have any stories about people doing stuff at night? Or I guess trying to avoid doing things at night?

SPEAKER_02 1:06:30

Well, and okay, so um let me see.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:33

And if not, that's okay. Putting you on the spot, and I apologize.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:36

No, no, no, that's okay. Um Andrew did Appalachian and said, Mom, we're concentrating on the Appalachian. So of course what I did is Ireland, you know, fairy laws and fee etiquette.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:49

But a lot of a lot of the settlers uh from the Appalachian areas are from Ireland, also from Germany, from England, from Wales, from France. Okay. I mean, so I think it's relevant.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:01

So um I have a bunch of rules, but the ones that you're talking about, it says avoid high risk times. Twilight, dawn, and holidays like Beltane, Midsummer, and Santa. It's not um are dangerous times yes, are dangerous times for interaction. Yesterday actually was Beltane, May 1st. Oh that explains a lot. Um was one of those days.

SPEAKER_08 1:07:30

One of those days.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:32

So they feel like this is Faye etiquette, and they feel like that twilight and dawn are are spooky times.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:43

I mean, if you are looking at this as a thin places are limital places, right? Um, because I think there's a lot of that happening in in a lot of Celtic mythology, then you know, dawn and dusk are both very limital times. Right. It is transitioning from one period of time day to the next night, or vice versa. Right. So I think that makes sense that the place uh everything would be a little bit thinner, but also as a photographer and and you know, videographer, the golden hour. Oh, yeah, it's it's gorgeous. It's a gorgeous time to go out and do stuff. Right. Um, but also sounds like maybe you're not supposed to be a good one. Just not in the woods, yeah. Just uh but that's also extra gorgeous. It really is, yeah. But you know, you're right though. You're right. Uh as long as you you know don't feel unwelcome. That'd be the only thing.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:33

Well, and you know, it's interesting. We always go back to that trust your gut because that's what it's there for.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:39

Yes, yeah, trust your intuition. And I think also, you know, all of this is also uh I guess complemented with the fact that there are plenty of creatures out in the mountains. Apex predators. Yeah, yeah. They hunt way better at night. Or or they hunt at night because their eyesight at night is way better than humans. Uh and ours are poorer, so they have the advantage. Yeah. So that one is a I would give it a category two.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:10

Okay. I'm I'm good with that.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:11

It it's exaggerated, but it's it's based on a little bit. Number two, never leave the marked trail.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:22

You know, to me, that is a common sense. Poison ivy, um sudden drop-offs, Bigfoot.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:34

I mean messing with Sasquatch.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:39

Um it is very tempting to to leave the mark trail because you know, we're adventurers, we want to step up, but but for safety reasons, you know, you can get turned around in the woods. And and I've heard so many stories of people that just go, you know, a couple yards away and then they can't remember which way is what. And uh they get lost in the woods.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:06

Absolutely. They stepped on uh something, one of the little bits of lore that I found.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:11

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:11

Um this one I have a lot of stuff for.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:14

Okay, good.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:16

We'll see how much of it I actually use, but um Oh, there's uh in German folklore, there's a plant called the Erwurz, um, which translates to the a stray root. Okay, also known in France as the Erbe de uh Erb de Ergemann. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:38

Uh I believe you.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:39

Yeah, which translates to herb of befellment, and there's a Celtic equivalent in the plant called the stray sod. Basically, these people they stepped on this plant, and the the whole thing is if you step on it, then it causes you to go astray and you cannot find your way back.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:55

There's fairy lore that says respect the path, do not step into fairy rings, which are circles of mushrooms, or off established paths in fairy realm, or you may be lost.

SPEAKER_07 1:11:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:11

And then the story that we talked about, the car um driving and driving, driving, being on this road and not getting somewhere.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:19

But he stayed on the path, though.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:21

He did unless he took a turn-off because it was a shortcut.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:26

Well, yeah, that's true. That's true.

SPEAKER_10 1:11:28

Recalculating, recalculating, recalculating.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:30

That actually would be a really scary like short horror film. Somebody goes like they're driving and they go onto the stretch of road, and then it's just the GPS just recalculating, recalculating because they're not on an earthly road.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:46

I know. How many times that so we never updated our GPS? You know, we bought it. The old ones, like Garmin's Garmin, yes. And so, you know, it's like we have the 2003 version and it's 2010. They might have built a road there now, and so we're on that road, but it's showing us going across this like green field. So that's that's what it would be like, you know, that kind of you are entering um all terrain access.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:16

That's right. You need four-wheel drive.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:18

The other thing is, though, I've used GPS up in the mountains in Georgia. GPS wants you to die in Georgia because they will take you up these. I remember we went up to this. One of the steepest roads I've ever experienced. And if somebody's coming the other way, you would have to back out, which oh, I wasn't gonna do.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:36

No, you just put your head between your legs and to kiss your body in the butt.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:42

And then they say, Oh, you shouldn't follow your GPS up there. It's like, why can't you put a sign down at the bottom of this road telling me that?

SPEAKER_04 1:12:50

Your GPS is trying to kill you. That's right. Don't do that.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:53

Um recalculating.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:56

But yeah, so so on the practical side of things, you're absolutely right. Um, so the National Park Service loves this rule. Right.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:06

I'm sure they do.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:07

Yeah, it's especially in the app on the Appalachian Trail, it's a good rule to follow. Uh that trail specifically, but most outdoor trails, especially. Um, the well, so the Appalachian Trail is incredibly long and many stretches of it are are already pretty remote. Right. Uh it's highly encouraged to stay on the trail for a variety of reasons, including the fact that when you wander onto rugged terrain, you are much more likely to hurt yourself. And rescue is not always guaranteed. Right. If if you if you get stranded in an area that people knows, yeah. That's true too.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:37

The other thing is it's not um paranormal, it's not cryptids, it's there's creepy people. Absolutely. I think dad was just listening to uh the podcast Two Girls and a Ghost. Yeah, yeah. And they were talking about a series of murders that happened on the Appalachian Trail. Not trying to discourage anybody to not go on the Appalachian Trail, but these were Go with friends. Go with friends, go with big, strong Van Diesel. I think I not only does he like DD, he probably likes Appalachian Trail. Go with Van Diesel or the rock, you know, somebody like that. But yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:11

Or or just, you know, you yourself just do a lot of squats in the gym. That's right. Um I are we I there's a bug on the lens. Are you seeing it on my lens?

unknown 1:14:23

No good. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:24

Oh, is that interesting? Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:35

So now let's dive into the paranormal side of this rule, never leaving the marked trail. Okay. And I think part of the rule, never leave the marked trail, when you when you say it, then there's an unasked question that's part of it, which is why are you leaving the marked trail?

SPEAKER_02 1:14:54

Oh, see, my question was where is the marked trail? But go ahead with the why.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:58

That makes a lot more sense. I think, I mean, I would imagine I'd hope it's marked. It's marked. So abolition trail, actually, there are white markings on the abolition trail. So if they're talking about that trail specifically, then that's probably, but also I think just in general, any roads. Right. But yeah, so I think that's kind of the implied question, though, is why are people leaving? What would make people want to leave the mark trail? And you made a book, you made a good point earlier. People are stupid and they will just wander off because they they can't adventurous, maybe, is the better word.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:28

I and and I have to say, when we used to take walks with you guys, you know, at Lake Leaquana, which is our local state park, you would immediately go off the walk to the the mark trail because there's water, you know, or there's but not at night.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:43

Well, not at night, and also well, and this this isn't talking about at night necessarily, but but I would even say it's I I've it's a little because we always we had an eye on the trail whenever we did it, and you know, we would do it to like climb on something, you know, have there are big rocks and things like that, but I feel like it wasn't straying too far off of the past, and it wasn't dense woods, it wasn't dense woods, exactly. That's true too. Um, so as we talk about all the lore, the mythology, the folklore, and the uh everything like that, let's first talk about the Cherokee people of the region. Now I get to get into some specifics. Okay. Here are some fun ones. So Mooney retells story, some stories about various legends that could serve, I think, as a route for this rule. Uh, so one group of of these guys, they're they call them spirits, but I almost feel like that's not the best term. It doesn't fully encapsulate what I think that they are. Okay. I don't want to call them entities because I I that word is is overused, I think. Right. You know, but the group, uh, these these people are called the uh uh Nunahi. Nunahi. Okay. Or the people who live anywhere.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:02

I so want to sing the pirates who don't do anything song to that, but I won't. Please go right ahead.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:10

So these these people, uh, they don't seem malevolent generally, generally, right? Um but some of the stories, at least one of the the story that I'm gonna retell, it's not um an evil, malevolent story, but I think with our cultural context, okay, it's unsettling, I think, to say the least. So uh so here's a story that they tell about this, uh, about this group. There was a man in uh Naughty Town. Yeah. Let me restart. There was a man in Naughty Town who had been with the New Nahi. Who had been with the New Nahi when he was a boy, and he told Wafford all about it. He was a truthful, hard-headed man, and Wafford had heard the story so often from other people that he asked this man to tell it. It it was in this way. When he was about ten or twelve years old, he was playing one day near the river, shooting at a mark with his bow and arrows until he came until he became tired and started to build a fish trap in the water. While he was piling up the stones and two long walls, a man came and stood at the bank and asked him what he was doing. The boy told him, and the man said, Well, that's pretty hard work, and you ought to have a rest for a while. Come and walk up the river. The boy said no, that he was gonna going home to dinner soon. Come right up to my house, said the stranger, and I'll give you a good dinner there and bring you home again in the morning. I'm sorry, but creeper, creeper, creeper, red flags, absolutely, and that's why I'm saying it's unsettling. It's not a path necessarily, but it's definitely a feels it feels in our to our cultural context, feels like alluring you away into the woods.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:02

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:03

And I think that is revalent uh relevant enough in this instance to count. Anyway, so the boy went up with him up the river until they came to a house when they went in, and the man's wife and the other people there were very glad to see him and gave him a fine dinner and were very kind to him. While they were eating, a man that the boy knew very well came in and spoke to them, so that he felt quite at home. I think that part's very important. A man that he knew very well came in and spoke to him. So he felt quite at home. Anyway, after dinner, he played with the other children and slept there at night, and in the morning, after breakfast, the man got ready to take him home. They went down a path that had a cornfield on one side, and a peach orchard fenced in on the other, until they came to another trail, and the man said, Go along this trail across that ridge, and you will come back to the river road that will bring you straight to your home. And now I'll go back to the house. So the man went back to the house, and the boy went along the trail, but when he had gone a little way, he looked back, and there was no cornfield or orchard or fence or house. Nothing but the trees on the mountainside. He thought it was very queer, but somehow he was not frightened, and went on until he came to the river trail in sight of his home. There were a great many people standing about talking, and they saw and when they saw him, they ran toward him, shouting, Here he is! He's not drowned or killed in the mountains. They told him that they had been hunting him ever since yesterday yesterday noon, and asked him where he had been. A man took me over to his house just across the bri uh just across the ridge, and I had a fine dinner and a fine and a good time with the children, said the boy. I thought I don't know how to pronounce this one, you Yutzikala or something like that. Uh I thought here. That was the name of the man he had seen at dinner. So he he named the man he thought he saw at dinner. Uh would tell you where it was. But this man, uh Yutzikala, said, I haven't seen you. I was out all day in my canoe hunting you. It was one of the uh Nuneha that made himself look like me. Then his mother said, You say you had dinner there? Yes, I had plenty too, said the boy. And the mother mother answered, but his mother answered, There is no house there. Only trees and rocks. But we hear a drum sometimes in the big bald above. The people you saw were Nuneha. Oh so obviously the boy didn't have any issue, but here are a couple things that stand out. Number one, uh they came somebody didn't teach him about Stranger Danger.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:09

That's number one.

SPEAKER_04 1:22:10

Yeah, yeah. And also they later on they presented themselves as a as someone the boy trusted. Right. Um, and then yeah, he invited him away into the forest. I mean, both of those things, again to us, super, super not alright, super creepy.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:26

I'm not saying it's aliens, but it's aliens. I mean, think about that. He was abducted, they made it look like a house in the woods, they took him up to his spaceship, they gave him food, he slept. They don't know. He doesn't know what happened to him.

SPEAKER_04 1:22:41

I mean, but also it feels very and this different, different, different places. So I understand that. You know, this is the I'm approaching this from from my uh own cultural background understanding. Sounds very fae-like.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:58

You know, it does. I was thinking about the term that um but if it had been fail like and he had eaten food there, he'd be in danger.

SPEAKER_05 1:23:06

He would not come home. And the interesting thing about these guys, like I said, they're not male.

SPEAKER_04 1:23:10

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:11

Um I the problem is is that you're after the break, you're now sitting forward a little further and to the shot. Oh.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:20

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:22

So let me go to sit there and maybe pull the microphone a little bit towards you.

SPEAKER_04 1:23:30

Yeah, how's this?

SPEAKER_01 1:23:31

Your your nose is still there. Maybe maybe still need to move the camera. This camera.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:35

Like, oh, do I need to move me?

SPEAKER_01 1:23:38

No, you say before. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:23:39

I I I wonder why.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:41

It's like I'm getting just a little bit of your uh I'm sorry about that.

SPEAKER_04 1:23:44

Here, let me uh I can also back up a little bit. Here how's that?

SPEAKER_01 1:23:53

If I just moved this one just a little bit this way.

SPEAKER_04 1:23:56

Alright. Do how how far back do we need to do we need to redo that whole thing?

SPEAKER_02 1:24:09

Is it mostly concentrating on you anyway? Because you're speaking for the whole thing, but it's because it's like anytime you talk and it cuts away, okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:17

You know, and you're speaking, and then he kind of replies to you, but the camera is still on you for a second. Okay, so I can see like his nose and his mouth is peeking at you.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:25

Shoot out of the frame.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:26

Shoot dang.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:27

So do we want to do it over again or do you think it's okay?

SPEAKER_04 1:24:30

Um I I can also crop in a little bit during that time.

unknown 1:24:34

Punch it.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:34

Yeah, punch it. Okay, all right, good. Okay. So from here.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:39

Is that okay? Okay, good, good, good.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:41

I'm gonna put second vid, because I'm assuming this is this is a a second and then is it's from um minute one basically to probably eight.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:56

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:58

Um just kind of make a little note.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:00

So is this gonna go at the end of the first?

SPEAKER_04 1:25:03

Yeah, the end of the first, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:05

All right, good, good, good. We're still going. Okay. Yeah, to Terry looks good.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:11

Andrew looks good.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:13

Thanks.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:14

Wide looks good.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:16

Okay. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:25:21

I'm saying punch in on um.

unknown 1:25:27

That does look good.

SPEAKER_04 1:25:28

No, that LUT looks real good.

unknown 1:25:30

Let me uh let me uh sensing move a little bit on the other side.

SPEAKER_04 1:25:32

Oh, okay.

unknown 1:25:35

That LUT looks real good.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:36

Okay. Alright, so where are you gonna Where are you gonna pick up, Andrew? Um So I was gonna say something about elementals. Did you hear something?

SPEAKER_04 1:25:47

Yeah, I say it, yeah, so it feels feel feels very Faye-like to me. Okay.

unknown 1:25:52

All right, whenever you're ready, Andrew.

SPEAKER_04 1:25:54

It it does it feels very Faye like to me.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:56

Right, but if it was Faye and he had eaten something, they wouldn't have let him go home.

SPEAKER_04 1:26:02

That's true. That'd be uh like a changeling situation, I guess, where they uh I don't know if that I don't know if they're changing necessarily.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:09

Usually, I mean, usually changelings are littles, you know, but because then they can't say, hey, by the way, I'm a changeling. Well, but you know, as you were talking about then I had to think of the word. Um and the first time I'd heard this term was when I was watching the Dead Files, and uh it it's called elementals. And elementals are like spirits, entities, whatever you want to call them, that have been here since the world was created.

SPEAKER_04 1:26:37

So it's so I actually hear so I've you know how every once in a while there's a there's a bit of a subject that I've done uh an entire script on another YouTube channel that I was gonna make. And this is Elementals is one of those subjects I was gonna do one on. Elementals is very interesting because the idea of elementals come from a bunch of different there's there's a lot of different folklore things, but the term elementals actually doesn't show up really until um I don't, it was Renaissance period. Okay, um, from a Swiss um uh I'm gonna have to pull up my notes, but he was a he was a Swiss physician, um, and he basically interpreted the the Greek elements, and he was like, well, if these are elements, but they're also moving uh under the direction of God's will, uh, because he's also very Christian. So he's trying to mix Greek ideas and philosophies with Christian ideas and philosophies. Obviously, that means that there are creatures that control that are the control of these elements. And so, um, and so there are four. It's actually that's where the the term gnome really um started becoming prevalent because he gnomes were were earth. Um, they lived in the earth as well. They could. phase through the earth like we face through air. Um anyway that's a whole tangent. But yeah, so I I but I I do see where you're coming from though, where it's because these guys are spirits. And so they they literally their name is live anywhere.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:14

You're right, which makes would be more of an elemental kind of rather than a something that died. So these are some things that have always been there and live nowhere. Exactly.

SPEAKER_04 1:28:27

And that's why I think spirits is doesn't fully fit because it does feel I mean I the term I I give it again I I would say fay even though they don't always act like the fay generally speaking they're more hospitable.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:40

And you just kind of wondered I do why was was there would something have happened to that boy if he had followed through on his own plan? Was there you know something in the woods waiting for him? Was there if he had gone back? Was there a storm that I mean was did somebody purposely disrupt the pattern of his life to save him for something else?

SPEAKER_04 1:29:06

Or did this guy just want to be hospitable towards this this young boy who was catching fish?

SPEAKER_02 1:29:13

If he had a van that would have been the that would have been the I don't think they had vans at that point in time. But that that was just that was that was straight up creepy to me.

SPEAKER_04 1:29:22

It does feel creepy but again with with with this group in particular Hey little boy you want to come to my house spend the night that's creepy yeah hey hey this person that you know very well we're just gonna have one of us shape shift into him that's right to make you feel comfortable. But like this because this group would also them and and other people associated them with them they would like if there was a it was a child that was lost they would often do similar things where they would be hospitable towards them and then they would bring them back home which is a lot kinder a lot nicer so I don't know I don't know what the in when it comes to the cultural context of of this particular story I don't know if it was scary or not.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:01

And and maybe that's it you know I'm picturing a a a cabin you know I'm picturing a an old cabin in the woods right there's a man on a rocking chair polishing his rifle. But if you start thinking about in in uh like a a teepee and a village and that kind of an environment it it takes away some of the creep.

SPEAKER_04 1:30:26

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:26

A lot more because it seems like there was a lot more community right you know um this is a whole bunch of people and they're all cooking and there's kids and he's just part of it and that seems a lot more innocent. Yep I just have to shift the the pictures in my mind because that was and that's and that's why it's it's you know creepy to us as it culturally speaking.

SPEAKER_04 1:30:49

And honestly because of our culture I you know unfortunately later on it discusses about a lot of these things that happened uh a lot of like the drums and things like that that happened in the woods. Right. They um they've stopped ever since you know the the Cherokee people were moved were removed. I think it's called the the removal in the book. Right. Um and we'll talk about maybe potentially what that means but anyway uh another race of spirits uh that Mooney writes about is called the uh Yenwi Justi or Little People oh that's very interesting which is again very Faye coded to those of us I'm using coded now a lot um you know but yeah very failike to those of us in in who come from that culture. Right. Um these little people who live in rock caves on the mountainside they're little fellows hardly reaching up to a man's knee but well shaped and handsome with long hair falling almost to the ground.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:50

Okay immediately the prince from Shrek comes to mind.

SPEAKER_04 1:31:55

Prince charming? Yes the little guy yeah flowing golden hair I have a feeling that they're probably nicer than he is well also they probably have different I would imagine that they're not they don't ever call them fair they call them handsome so I'm saying I'm thinking that they probably black dark yeah probably black hair that makes sense yes but yes they have a little per you know just take off the their whatever cap and just flow through the air the locks anyway or cousin it those are the those are I don't know if you can describe cousin it as handsome if you if you well shaped and handsome long hair part the part the part the hair yeah um they are they're great wonder workers and are very fond of music wonder workers wonder workers so they work wonders I would imagine uh I I guess also coming from you know my my previous context as well I thought that wonder workers like they they were craftsmen that's what I read that as but also I do think that they could be miracle workers as well wonder workers um very fond of music spending half their time drumming and dancing they are helpful and kind hearted okay now we've got Rico Star they are helpful and kind hearted okay and often when people have been lost in the mountains especially children who have strayed away from their parents the Yunwin Justi have found them and taken care of them and brought them back to their homes. Sometimes their drum is heard in lonely places in the mountains but it is not safe to follow it because little people do not like to be disturbed at home and they will throw a spell over the stranger so that he is bewildered and loses his way even if he does not sorry and and even if he does at last get back to the settlement he is like one dazed ever after. Oh interesting yeah so that's another if you hear music I mean I think this is just a good general statement.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:02

If you hear music in the woods don't go looking for it maybe isn't that I want to say like one of the old like Rip Van Winkle kind of things. Sure um you know and I know he fell asleep under a tree but I want to say there was a musical and I could be wrong element to it because then he got something to drink and then he was gone.

SPEAKER_04 1:34:26

He slept for like 20 years, 40 years, some long, long years yeah I forget the specifics but so it's interesting because they're very benevolent if they find you yes which is also very faith like I mean when you talk about the Faye if you if you upset them right they will be very nasty to you but if you treat them with respect and in this case in their case you don't go disturbing their place right they will come and and be benevolent to you and help you. Do you know what they are introverts you're not wrong.

SPEAKER_08 1:35:03

I know it's like I'll come to your house I'll help you.

SPEAKER_04 1:35:06

Don't come to my house if I invite you yes but if I don't invite you I better not see you at my place.

SPEAKER_02 1:35:15

And if I invite you tell me you can't come so yeah I like that I I like them okay so those are some um experiences from Cherokee peoples.

SPEAKER_04 1:35:31

Okay. Um do you have any stories for about you know not being pulled away from from the the trail or from okay the normal place and keep in mind that later on you know that we're gonna be talking about other ones. Yeah so don't don't do voices necessarily but there are other experiences especially with Will of the Wisp I think is a very good would you like the Will-O-Wisp?

SPEAKER_02 1:35:56

I mean I could tell will-ow-wisp will of the wisp okay let me know let's I think this is a good place for the will o' wisp okay you know when we're talking about Appalachian folklore I this is yes very you know this is this was part at least part of the the the ideas from some of the so here so Will-O the Wisp and it's like oh just oh will o the wisps are ethereal floating blue or green lights seen over bogs swamps and marshes at night acting as malevolent spirits or tricksters in folklore they lure travelers off safe paths to their doom or into treacherous terrain often appearing as lanterns held by phantom travelers I don't think you said that melodramatic enough um luring travelers to their doom like that dun dun dun so here's the common folklore rules and beliefs when we're dealing with will o' wisps do not follow never follow the light it is intended to lead travelers into watery graves or make them hopelessly lost the trickster nature they're often considered lost souls this is interesting such as unbaptized children oh I know that's sad wicked spirits or fairies I love kind of rude yeah you know they're in the same list same category you got some evil spirits and you got some unbaptized children. It's their fault okay in some tales they are souls denied entry into both heaven and hell doomed to wander the origin myths some legends claim they are ghosts of land surveyors condemned to walk boundaries with a lantern dang wow that's that would be rough we should stop when you know you see those guys on the highway doing that and just warn them be nice to people you're gonna end up here forever they may appear as a single ball of light or as multiple lights and are known to move against the wind and disappear when approached they cannot be caught in Australia trying to catch one results in the person disappearing okay that was an odd odd only in Australia so don't go to Australia and catch will o' the wisps I mean I think in Australia probably the reason why is because the will of the wisps are actually the the souls of deceased emus and they already lost a war to them once so okay or they're spiders because Australia has the biggest meanest spiders in the whole white world have you heard about the war uh the Australian war against the emus no do you need to tell me about that now that you brought it up everyone research that it's very interesting and that's all I'll say so an emu is like uh a bird yeah there's a war against the emus a military action against the emus and they lost the emus lost or the Australian people lost that Australian people well the Australian military I gotta say we almost had an emu here we almost with somebody had very glad we didn't I well so and this was so we were given all these sheep because somebody was moving from it was Orangeville and there was unfortunately a divorce she had all these sheep she was going to move back to Chicago so she gave us half her sheep and she had this emu and it was like um a livestock protector emu because they're very protective and somebody comes in those emus can like kick.

SPEAKER_04 1:39:36

Sick a boy I know right I don't know what emus sound like but I hope that's what either that or I just made a very um clippable noise on the internet.

SPEAKER_02 1:39:46

Right. So we were going to give okay so I spent many years chasing after things because we don't have great fences and I remember I was like seven or eight months pregnant with Sarah chasing a seven or eight months pregnant and chasing a cow down a gravel road trying to get it back in. So I was not fond of chasing animals. And and our fences they were fine they just weren't great and so she had this emu and she had these uh sheep and so we couldn't we didn't want to take all the sheep and um I kind of like the emu. I mean it's like a little ostrich it was kind of cool but then I said it's not an ostrich it's an emu it's an emu so I said uh does it does it ever escape and she said oh yes and I said and how fast can it run? And she said about 35 miles an hour.

SPEAKER_04 1:40:37

I said yep nope imagine that but in the wild oh yeah that's yes that's essentially what the Australian farmers were okay up against that's why military action was taken.

SPEAKER_02 1:40:46

So we we had friends who um wanted the sheep and I said to them it was actually her husband because I knew I I knew he'd fall for it. I said you know they've also got an emu. And he said what he was so excited I said oh yeah it's like a little ostrich you guys could have that we'll we'll let you guys have that one I think she hated me for the rest of uh no so yeah so emus are okay so sorry now emus like will of the wisps um are very fast and very difficult to obtain and dangerous to get close to especially in Australia especially in Australia okay so now going back to the podcast how to protect yourself from will o' the wisps traditional ways to protect oneself include turning your coat or your cap inside out to break the glamour because they're laughing at you so hard. What a dork. I know right they can't hold the glamour the other thing is the knife defense another protective albeit strange ritual is to stick a knife into the ground blade side up the wisp may attack the blade to kill itself I didn't write this folks uh are hey will of the wisps if you're listening are you okay yeah you you good do you need to talk to somebody yeah it's look I I actually I don't know if we want you to be I don't know if we want you to be around because if you're luring people to their deaths that's true.

SPEAKER_10 1:42:24

So the regional names are Spunky from Scotland that's my favorite Spunky it's often seen as a demon misguiding people Hinky Punk is from southwestern England specifically in Somerset take it back that one's my favorite these these are sound like the Pac-Man ghosts a lot okay Jack o'Lantern or Jack in the lantern English tradition classic ignis fatus fatus what did you call me Latin for foolish fire you foolish fire you you ing ignis fatus these are all the names of people from a punk band.

SPEAKER_04 1:43:05

Is it really yeah yeah and then they've they've got Andrew's uh longhaired drummers from uh the the little people okay I'm gonna Lucas del Tesoro which are the money lights so in Mexico these guys may indicate buried treasure are you kidding Mexico you don't want people to now you're saying oh there might be treasure there you should follow them isn't that against everything we've just read literally all of the other examples of will-o-wisp is like don't follow them they'll they'll lead you to your death and Mexico is like hey you might get some treasure it feels like a trap that was promoted by the will of the wisp society by the Lucas de Docero people feels like feels like uh propaganda by by the will-o'wisps you should follow us there might be treasure yep so we have okay here's my here's my freaky friday will o' the wisp thing so let me just read yeah I think we might want to end with that yeah so um this will be a two-parter you probably have already seen that since you can see this is part one um we're gonna end on on the will of this really good story because this is this one about it's both mine and dad's yeah so a true a true example of straying off the path too far um and then next week we uh come back and we'll be talking about rules three through five and and we'll also talk a little bit about more of the Faye rules but I also had rules for paranormal investigations.

SPEAKER_02 1:44:47

Yeah so that yeah those are interesting okay so come back next week for more of the rules and we'll we'll we'll read you off with this but stay yes stay for this stay for this stay for this don't go anywhere it was late at night I don't remember why I was awake but when I'm awake the dogs are awake and their call of nature is awake so at about three o'clock in the morning I was standing on the back deck and the dogs were running around the yard answering their call and that was Brody and Riley is when this happened. I remember uh Brody and Riley were both um Bernie's mountain dog uh golden retriever mixes Riley was more of a I know Brody probably had a little bit but he seemed more right he was more he's probably three quarter one quarter and Riley was half and half I remember it was a warm night and I could see the stars. In the timber at the far end of our acreage I heard an owl hoot and then I heard a slightly squeakier response. It sounded like the mother owl was conversing with her child. Very cute. The owl would hoot again and the juvenile owl would respond. It was charming and I focused my eyes on the the group of trees in the distance when it where I heard the squeakier response hoping I would get to see the youngster fly out of the trees and across the pasture. Then I noticed a light just below the trees at first I wondered if a car was going down the road but I realized I didn't hear anything. Immediately I thought crap flashlight someone is in our woods but as I watched the light dart and move unless the person holding the flashlight could fly it wasn't a flashlight either. I watched the light flutter around the trees almost as if it were dancing almost as if it were beckoning me to come and follow. A chill ran down my spine as that thought entered my mind. I called to the dogs and they came immediately and I retreated to the safety of my house locking the door securely behind me. So the next day I told my husband about my experience and to my surprise he confessed that he too had an experience with the lights. Several years earlier but again this same time of year he had been out in the yard it was late evening and he had gone out to check on the chickens. When he got out of the barn dusk had turned to twilight and the woods were dark. He started to walk back to the house when he saw um a light darting around in the woods. Immediately thinking it was one of the kids he walked towards the woods calling out hey who's out there he broke another rule. Anyway there was no answer but upon hearing his voice the light held steady and remained in place.

SPEAKER_10 1:47:34

He walked closer to the light and as soon as he got within ten yards it started to move to into the forest he paused and it would pause there were no sounds of footfalls on the top of the leaves and the twigs on the ground no sign of a person holding the light just the light he stepped forward again and the light darted back then a cold chill went down his spine as the legend of the will-o't-wisp his Scottish mother had told him entered his mind he stayed where he was watching the floating light for a few more moments then backed away and hurried to the house so it says people all over the British Isles have been reporting seeing the Will-O'thewisp for thousands of years they've been seen in fields in forests during good weather rainstorms those who have seen them swear they thought the lights were real a flame or a lantern or in more modern times a flashlight nighttime travelers would assume there were a candle in the window guiding them home but those poor souls who follow them are lost forever. Even Sir Isaac Newton mentioned them in his 1704 opus Optics so we can tell you more about them the next time we get together on Voices from the Attic.

SPEAKER_04 1:49:02

Yeah in the meantime don't follow lights don't stray off the path don't whistle in the dark don't walk around in the dark either I think just you know stay oh go ahead don't follow music into the into the woods.

SPEAKER_02 1:49:17

Right uh don't have some weird man take you from fishing bring you up to his cabin for dinner.

SPEAKER_04 1:49:25

Actually if if we're going by the story do have some weird man because that kid that kid ended up completely fine and safe. I mean don't actually do it like in the context of the story that kid was fine and he had two delicious meals breakfast and dinner.

SPEAKER_02 1:49:40

That's right and don't listen to the Mexican Will o' the wisp because there's no treasure out there.

SPEAKER_04 1:49:47

It's cartels don't listen to the will of the wisp with the sombrero because they they will lead you uh they will say they'll lead you to treasure but they'll really lead you astray. Um so also um make sure To to follow us or or subscribe, do all those things, please it again, please share it with your friends. It would be incredibly helpful. Especially if you liked what you listened to and and you can think of a few few friends that uh that you think would like this podcast.

SPEAKER_02 1:50:15

Or if you really hated this and you have some enemies you want to share this with, we're good. We're good with that.

SPEAKER_04 1:50:20

We'll take hate watches. Absolutely. Um also if you have a story or a topic that you would like us to discuss, especially a story though, that you like us to share so that we can, you know, share it with the community, uh, then email us at vftaddic at gmail.com. Voices from the attic. That's what VFT stands for. Vftatic at gmail.com.

SPEAKER_02 1:50:40

One of the comments we recently got was somebody said that they would love to sit at a kitchen table and just chat with us. That's what we want to do. That's that's the greatest compliment we can get. So thank you for letting us sit at your kitchen table and chat with you. And I hope you have a great week.

SPEAKER_04 1:50:54

See you guys.

SPEAKER_02 1:50:55

Bye.