Don’t Answer the Voice | The Rules of the Appalachian Mountains Part 2

What if the rules of the Appalachian Mountains are not just spooky warnings — but old advice about what not to answer, follow, touch, or invite in?

In Part 2 of our Appalachian rules series, we look at voices in the woods, whistling, strange sounds, fairy etiquette, haunted places, paranormal investigation rules, and the unsettling idea that sometimes the safest thing you can do is simply refuse to acknowledge what’s calling.

Are these rules rooted in folklore, practical caution, or modern internet horror? Pull up a chair in the attic and let’s find out.

New episodes released regularly.

Join Paranormal Mystery Author Terri Reid and researcher Andrew T. Reid as they explore ghosts, cryptids, alien encounters, and other unexplained mysteries.

If you'd like to share your opinion, thoughts, or your own paranormal experience with us, please contact us at vftattic@gmail.com. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

I finally located the old cemetery of my ancestors deep in the West Virginia Mountains. The encounter with the locals wasn't as weird as when I went to the location they sent me. As I approached, the hot summer suddenly became very cold. Then I heard the distinct sound of someone saying, Papa, Papa, several times. And I was definitely alone. Gypsy RN9 from Reddit.

SPEAKER_01 0:38

Listen closely, old walls still speak. Some things are hidden, not to be forgotten, but to be kept. The old house remembers what others forget.

SPEAKER_06 0:50

What is remembered is most truly.

SPEAKER_01 0:54

Listen closely, and you too may just hear voices from the attic.

SPEAKER_06 1:15

I am uh an editor, researcher, um, paranormal enthusiast, son, and big old giant nerd.

SPEAKER_02 1:24

Hi, I'm Terry Reed, author, researcher, podcaster, mom, mostly mom, grandma, and um and believer in ghosts, encrypteds, and things that go bump in the night.

SPEAKER_06 1:40

Um, also, considering the the cold open is takes place in West Virginia, right? Uh, I think that this story confirms the fear that I've always had, which uh West Virginia is home to the mountain mama, and that implies that there's a mountain papa. And this thing calling out papa implies the mountain papa is out there.

SPEAKER_02 2:05

Take me home.

SPEAKER_06 2:07

Country rose.

SPEAKER_02 2:09

Hey, welcome. Thanks for coming back here and being with us. Um, do a little quick housekeeping first.

SPEAKER_06 2:16

Yeah, just a little bit. Yeah. Um, uh, like we said in the last episode, um, we would really appreciate it if if you're liking what you're listening to, you know, if you if you are vibing with what we're putting out, then go ahead and please share it with your friends. Uh, we would we would love your help. We would love to build the community so that we can, you know, uh be able to reach more people and and you know, uh I I think that we're our podcast, we're trying to do a couple of different things. We're trying to number one, um create uh a good environment to be able to to share and discuss ghost stories together, uh or not just ghost stories, but paranormal encounters together in in an environment of um of of of believing and of accepting, you know, what people's experiences are.

SPEAKER_02 3:01

We're also trying to give Ash, our good friend, cameraman, and ever an all all around knowledgeable person a place to go on Saturday mornings.

SPEAKER_05 3:10

True. I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_06 3:12

Well, you're welcome. Um and we also, you know, we we want to and like what we're kind of doing with this episode, we want to talk about some of the uh concept uh the the ideas of I won't say the misconceptions, I don't think that's necessarily accurate, though I do think there are some misconceptions, but we want to uh show the greater folklore of various different things, whether it's in these episodes, we're talking about the Appalachian Mountain area, which is a huge area, um, but that, or we're talking about, you know, various other different folklores of of different regions. We want to give a a broad understanding of of what those are, and we want to do that through, you know, kind of dissecting some different things like like these lists.

SPEAKER_02 4:03

And I think also it's kind of fun to have a generational thing. Yeah, it's true. That's true. Because what what is uh I'm definitely a boomer, although at the far end of the boomers, but what what year can can I ask that?

SPEAKER_06 4:18

Is that appropriate?

SPEAKER_03 4:19

Okay.

SPEAKER_06 4:20

What year were you born?

SPEAKER_02 4:21

Um okay, you can't ask that.

SPEAKER_06 4:23

And that's that's I guess that's why I was asked, that's why I was asking if it's appropriate.

SPEAKER_05 4:26

Boomers end is starts in 45 and it ends in 19. It's in the 60s.

SPEAKER_02 4:33

Okay. So let's just say I'm at the closer of the end of the boomers. And they actually they actually put um together a a new, I'm almost falling into another category because they didn't want to put all the the boomers into what?

SPEAKER_06 4:50

Whether you uh so the greatest generations from 1901 to 1927. Not part of that. Silent generation from 1928 to 1945. Obviously, not part of that. Baby boomers 1946 to 1964. Okay, part of that. Okay. I was close. Yeah. Okay. Uh then we got Generation X. And so who are you? I am a millennial.

SPEAKER_03 5:11

Okay.

SPEAKER_06 5:11

Which is from 1981 to 1996. Okay. So I still was born in the year 1900.

SPEAKER_02 5:18

Yes. In the yes, the decade.

SPEAKER_06 5:21

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 5:21

Yes, I know I was there. I was there when it happened. So, but the idea that boomers and millennials can actually talk to each other and converse, and even though we have differing opinions, yeah, um, can sometimes agree on things. Yes.

SPEAKER_05 5:38

I'm splitting the difference. Oh, there you go. Thanks for being the generation X. Yay.

SPEAKER_02 5:43

What generation are you?

SPEAKER_05 5:44

Uh Xennial. It's it's that that transition between generics and X. Oh, okay. Gotcha.

SPEAKER_02 5:51

Which is like Which is the person that knows everything. So it's true.

SPEAKER_05 5:56

It goes from like 75 to 84, 85-ish, something. So I'm in there.

SPEAKER_06 6:00

Because I will say I'm at the latter end of the millennials because it's 1996. I was born two years before that. So I do kind of similarly, I feel like a mixture of millennial and gen Z a little bit, though I do tend to have a lot more millennial quirks than you know than Gen Z quirks. Now that you've known way too much about our personal information, um please don't uh look at my bank uh information. Don't don't dox me.

SPEAKER_02 6:31

Um we just want to say thank you for um coming here and sitting around our kitchen table, um, even though it's in the attic.

SPEAKER_06 6:41

And we are voices, voices from the attic. Right.

SPEAKER_02 6:44

And just chatting about these things in in our own quirky, weird kind of way. Please uh leave us a comment if you like what we're doing. Um if you want us to cover some topics that you would really like to hear us research and chat about, please let us know.

SPEAKER_06 7:02

If you have stories of your own as well, then feel free to email us at VFTATic. That's stands for voices from the attic, vftattic at gmail.com. Please send them to us. We would love to share them to give you, you know, validation and also to maybe remind other people of experiences that they've had, because that I know for me, sometimes I'm reading a story and I go, Oh, that's right, I have had an experience like that. And so we would love we would love to be able to trigger other people with those kinds of not that kind of trigger, but also sometimes you know it is, yeah. Sometimes it is a bit spooky. So yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:37

So this is part two of um rules. And um when when Andrew did this, he put together an outline that I completely ignored. And so we're gonna be talking about some of the rules that he looked into, and and I've got some corresponding information, but we're also gonna be then talking about the Fay and also um some rules that if you're a paranormal investigator, some of the the rules for that. And I kind of loved those as I looked at them.

SPEAKER_06 8:07

Yeah, that makes sense. I I because you don't really think about those, but I think that's very important. Right to be able to follow, especially especially since you are on that line between you know, you're you're on somebody else's property, generally speaking, when you're paranormal investigating, and so you are you have both just rules for those on this earth as well as rules to be polite with those in the other realm. Right, on the other side of the side, yeah. So I think it's very important to be very kind and generous to both. Um, the golden rule applies to the spirits as well, I think.

SPEAKER_02 8:47

Yes. Do unto others, even though they're dead.

SPEAKER_06 8:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:54

Unless they're trying to, you know, be do bad things.

SPEAKER_06 8:57

Yeah, then then self-defense is alright. Uh, you know, then then do as uh Catherine the Great and start blasting.

SPEAKER_02 9:04

Oh, that's right. She did do that to her doppelganger.

SPEAKER_06 9:07

Still one of my favorite stories. I again I think more stories need to end with with guns. I yeah, I I I saw it by the uh I saw a dude with black eyes out there, you know, his pupils were just gone. He only like there were no whites in his eyes at all. Started blasting. He's spooky, spook me out.

SPEAKER_02 9:28

Uh some guy wearing sunglasses.

SPEAKER_06 9:30

Well, that's different.

SPEAKER_02 9:31

Okay, well. So, Andrew.

SPEAKER_06 9:34

So tell me about these rules of yours. Well, so to to briefly recap, remind people about last episode. Um, first of all, I'll go over all of the rules that we will be covering, well, that we started covering last episode, um, and that we'll also be covering this episode. The common rules are number one, never be in the woods from dusk until dawn. Number two, never leave the marked trail. Number three, if you hear voices close to you, they're far away. But if the voices are far away, then they're near. Number four, do not whistle or sing in the woods. Number five, never look too hard into the trees. And then kind of an unofficial one that covers a lot of this. If you heard something in the woods, no, you didn't.

SPEAKER_02 10:32

Okay, so in the last episode, I had a bunch of rules, so you have to go back to that episode and find them, but that I actually got from a Reddit user who lives in Appalachia, and then I discovered that I missed two of them. So they're kind of appropriate to bring up right now. Yeah. The first one is whistling in your house after sunset is an invitation for the spirits to come inside. That's new. That's interesting. It is. It's kind of, I'm picturing Casper's brothers. It's like, hey, she said we can come inside, Jamie or Alyssa. So that was interesting. So whistling your house after sunset. And the second one, if you're camping and your tent mate suddenly sits up and wants to talk, pretend to be asleep. It isn't your tent mate who is trying to talk to you.

SPEAKER_06 11:24

Yeah, I don't like that one. I'm curious to see if that actually is if that's just spooky internet lore, if that's a an actual thing. Either way, it's it's a really good that's that's a creepy. Yeah. Yeah. I I I both love and hate that one. That's right. You know, sometimes just in the middle of the night, after you have a nightmare, you just gotta sit up and talk to your tent mate, you know?

SPEAKER_02 11:46

Okay, so your dad did this to me once. I mean, I knew it was your dad, but we're sleeping, and I'm a very well This wasn't while you were camping, right? No, okay, sorry. This is just the way my mind works.

SPEAKER_06 11:57

No, I know what story it is, and that's I just want to clarify. They weren't camping at the time.

SPEAKER_02 12:01

We weren't camping. Um, and I'm a very light sleeper because I have children, and so you know, you have the mom thing. So I'm sleeping, and uh I'm terrified of water. Let me start. I was nearly drowned when I was a child, and so water just terrifies me. And of course, my husband decided he needed to do scuba dive in less sense, and which terrified me. But he did them, and he was going to go the next day up to Kenosha. There's a quarry up there in Kenosha where it's all filled in water, and they go scuba diving, and down is like wrecked cars, and there's just a whole bunch of stuff that scuba divers get to get to go down and and see. I think you just inspired Ash to have a new hobby. Okay. Yeah, he he he really enjoyed scuba diving. I it tear as I said, it terrified me. So he wakes up in the middle of the night, he sits up in bed, I wake up, he looks down at me, and he says, Dead in the water. And then he goes back to sleep.

SPEAKER_04 13:09

Excuse me.

SPEAKER_02 13:10

Excuse me. So the next morning, I asked him what that's all about, and he'd stayed up late reading a novel about a boat, and the engine died, so it was dead in the water. That is not how I interpreted it during my entire sleepless night that night. So, yeah, if somebody wants to talk in the middle of the night, I am I'm all for pretending you're asleep.

SPEAKER_06 13:34

Yeah, yeah. I think that's valid. I think that's valid. Um, so going back to so I I guess to recap a little bit more of the last episode, we we did go through two of them and we came to a conclusion for the first one. I don't think we've ever officially came to a conclusion for the second rule. Um, so the first rule that we came to a conclusion to, uh, when I say conclusion, let me go ahead go ahead and tell your three three choices. Yeah, so so in this episode as we talk about things, we will be talking about each rule individually, going over the research that we found, and determine, excuse me, determine if we think the rule falls into one of these three categories. Number one, if it's based in real Appalachian folklore or real folklore in general. Number two, plausibly based in real folklore, but heavily exaggerated. Or number three, completely made up. Just completely fabricated because it sounded spooky. Um the first one that we we went over, uh it's um never be in the woods from dusk until dawn. We concluded it was it was number two. Yes. Uh plausibly based. There's there's a lot of folklore out there that exists about you know things being more active at night. And also when you take into account the the apex predators, apex predator and all that. Well, yes, but even I'm I'm just talking about folklore. Right. So number one definitely is a is a very common sense practice. Don't don't go wandering out in the woods at night. Um hunker down at night. You know, stay try to stay in one place. Uh, because you're right, predators also just terrain can be dangerous. Um, but also in the paranormal side of things, too, um, even there's a lot of things that come out at night, but also when you look at it through the fence uh th through the Fay lens, right? Uh dusk and dawn are also those liminal spaces. Yeah, where the the the area is thin, uh that time of of day when things are thinner. Um then also I think it's interesting because you have that and you also have the witching hour, which is like three o'clock. I've heard of both. I think I think both could be accurate. I'm just curious why, because the the dusk and dawn make a little bit more sense to me. I don't know why three o'clock. I believe it. I just don't know why.

SPEAKER_02 15:58

I think that that might be an internet thing. Because it's like three o'clock where? Central Standard Time, New York Time, GMT, everything.

SPEAKER_06 16:06

I think it's three o'clock where you're at. I think that's I mean, the witching hours.

SPEAKER_02 16:11

Why is it three o'clock where you're at and not well that might be something we end up doing later on?

SPEAKER_06 16:16

Oh, that's a good point. Because I will say, as as I've done a lot of research on a lot of app Appalachian folklore, right, has to do with witches. A lot of witch stuff. Yes, yes, and these rules don't really we can't really get into that because a lot of the witch stuff that happens tend to tends to be more um based around homes and and cities and everything like that. So, you know, honestly, a lot of the coolest folklore tends to be in communities and not in the forest. Right. Uh, and so you know, we might end up doing an episode on on some different witches. That's a great idea. That could be fun. Okay. Anyway, so number two, uh, the second rule is never leave the marked trail. What would you what do you think? We never determined one, two, or three. What what category would you put that in?

SPEAKER_02 17:05

So we we got to talk about Will of the Wisp. We got to talk about some of the Cherokee uh fables, folklore. Yeah. Um, we also talked about just especially on the Appalachian Trail, the common sense of not leaving the marked trails, especially in dense woods. So um I could lean very easily to number one on this one.

SPEAKER_06 17:28

I I would only I would agree with you, except I think the wording is too strong. Okay. I think marked marked trail is too strong a verbiage. What I would say what I would say is it's too only because I think a more lore accurate uh or I guess a better applicable rule would be don't wander from or don't wander into paths unknown.

SPEAKER_03 17:54

Okay.

SPEAKER_06 17:54

Yeah, stay stay on paths you you know or somebody knows.

SPEAKER_02 17:58

I think marked trail is just a little bit too But you know, it depends on what you think of as marked. I mean, not that it I'm gonna argue hugely on this, but what I'm saying is, you know, I think about the Oregon Trail. I think about uh deer paths in the woods, you know, I think about um like Galena. Um there was the Galena Trail from Chicago, the Stagecoach Trail.

SPEAKER_06 18:20

Stagecoach Trail.

SPEAKER_02 18:21

And and those ended up being marked, but they were marked because of the ruts in the ground. But you knew that that was a safe place to travel, that you weren't gonna run into like a swamp or quicksand or because these were marked trails.

SPEAKER_06 18:37

And so trying to find that I think it's a closer. I I remember writing down a bit. But you're right. I guess it depends on it depends on what you consider marked, right?

SPEAKER_02 18:50

Because the Appalachian Trails, you know, because that is a fairly modern trail itself is a fairly modern thing and it has those little white flags on it. Yeah, that wouldn't be folklore. But if you think about old Indian trails that that had been walked for centuries or or and those are marked safed trails, and and you know, it's so it's it may be not spirits or cryptids or anything, but but it is it'll lead you to water, it'll keep you off those, you know, so that's true.

SPEAKER_06 19:22

Because I guess you know, especially if you if you're talking about like animal trails, deer trails, and things like that. I mean it it's a double-edged sword because it could also wander you into you know danger or or other things that you predators who say, yeah, stay on this trail.

SPEAKER_02 19:34

Exactly.

SPEAKER_06 19:35

The verbiage that I wrote in my notes was don't stray off the known path. And I I think that. Yeah, I think that's a little bit, you know, I I think I would lean closer to two, but I can understand the argument for one. I think I think they both uh you know, we can we can call we're gonna be able to do that.

SPEAKER_02 19:51

But I do have to say that don't stray off the known path flies into the face of every adventurer, every entrepreneur, or every so in in that way, I mean physical paths, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 20:04

It's dangerous. How about that? It's dangerous to stay off the stray off the known path. I think that's probably I like that, yeah. Adventurous, yeah. Yeah, because it's not saying because that's a lot of the superstition, it's not saying don't do it. It's it's it's so it's bad luck if you do this. It's not smart, it's not safe. And so I think it's safe to say for this rule, it's dangerous to stray off the known path. But we can we can call it one. We can still call it one. I think it's based heavily in a lot of folklore about you know staying on on the path. Now we get to venture into the next rule, which is if you hear voices close to you, they're far away. But if the voices are far away, then they're near. This rule I'm I'm also gonna kind of group uh another rule that I didn't include in this because I think both uh one and two kind of cover this one a little bit. We didn't really cover it last uh in in rule two, so we'll cover here as well. Um if the voices are saying your name, do not answer them. So I think it it fits in this one because the idea is that if you hear something, if especially if you hear your uh a voice saying your name or just anything from a distance from far away, then it's near. But also if you hear it close to you, then they're far away. So it's that kind of okay.

SPEAKER_02 21:34

And I you know, when I posted this kind of question um on my Facebook page, yeah, uh some people I I remember one comment in particular that somebody's uh I think her dad had died uh in the last couple of years, and she said if she heard her dad calling to her, she would want to go and see.

SPEAKER_06 21:56

I that's that's actually specifically addressed in some of These oh really, yeah. So that's fascinating. So we we'll get into that. But okay. I mean, but I understand though I that emotional pull. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 22:09

That desire to see somebody that you loved again.

SPEAKER_06 22:12

Yep. Totally get it. Um but you know, also it it could be dangerous. It can be yes. Um so we're gonna look and see if it has uh if this internet rule has any modern historical or even practical backbone. Okay. Um so let's look at the practical side of things. This rule, and we're talking specifically about if if the voices are close to you, if you hear voices close to you, they're far away. If the voices are far away, then they're near. Practical side of things, this rule is actually grounded in some real acoustic signs. So in mountains, woods, hollers, ridges, valleys, fog, wind, and in uh nighttime temperature shifts, sound tends to travel very oddly. Uh, if you're not used to these conditions, or if you even if you are used to these conditions, sound can actually like your ears can play tricks on you. Sound can be super weird, super distorted. Um the cyclopedia of the environment notes some natural phenomena that can play with the acoustics. Uh, specifically in this article that I read, they talked about the inversion layer um is being a phenomena that can mess with acoustics. Um an inversion layer is it's a it's uh an air or weather thing. Right. Um basically it's warmer air that sits on above colder air. So generally speaking, warm air rises, right? And cold air, you know, they they um did you have a oh yeah, it's uh it's referred to as a sound channel.

SPEAKER_05 23:52

Okay. Oh so basically what happens is an atmospheric condition where sound can travel extreme long distances. Oh yes, yes, and uh it also appears in the oceans as well. Oh, I didn't know that between temperature and salinity levels. That makes sense. That makes sense.

SPEAKER_06 24:09

Yeah, yeah. So so with with the air, uh the generally speaking, the the denser, colder air uh gets trapped. Okay because the the less dense but warmer air has no reason to travel down, right? It's just gonna stay where it is. That's where that's where you get a lot of effect, uh weather effects like fog and things like that. Um you have this colder air that's just sitting there and the warmer, so it's like and you the earth is generally warmer too.

SPEAKER_02 24:37

Yeah, so generally trapped between those two warm layers. Exactly. Okay.

SPEAKER_06 24:42

Uh this just like just like what Ash said, it also creates this this acoustic uh basically the the the warm air kind of acts as like a ceiling. Um so it's where did I put the the actual word for it? Um let's see. I called it um I didn't call it, this is what what it's called. Um where did I put it? I know that I put it here somewhere. You can't hide from me.

SPEAKER_02 25:21

So let me tell you, yeah, I wish you had told me this like a year ago. So about a year ago, um we were home alone. Do you want to tell your word?

SPEAKER_06 25:34

Refract refracted. Oh, okay. The sound wave gets refracted, and then yeah, it can travel. Okay. Like bounces and travel. Anyway, so yes, yes, yes, yes.

SPEAKER_02 25:43

We were raising a couple cows, and um we had them in the pasture just out just outside of our yard. And um I I woke up as in the middle of the night, you know, uh two o'clock, you know, and I'm hearing our cows, well, I think I'm hearing our cows mooing and mooing like there is something um going on outside. And so um, because I'm brilliant, I go outside by myself with a flashlight and um to go check and see what's what's out there. Is there coyote in the pasture? Is there, you know. Yes, as as one should.

SPEAKER_06 26:26

Uh uh, a woman alone should definitely go to check what predators are out there causing these giant cattle to be distressed. That's a very okay.

SPEAKER_02 26:36

I uh I wasn't uh the smartest mood I ever made. So I go out there, I have this little flashlight that of course starts dimming as soon as I walk beyond the deck. You know, it's like, yeah, it's like it's dying off. And so I'm going out there and walk to the pasture, and you see these two, and and I I don't think it was a full moon, but the moon was bright, so you could still see, and you see these two hulking shapes lying down in the pasture, sound asleep. So it wasn't, and then I can hear the cows from it's gotta be five miles away. It's it's it's across the Pecatonica, it's into somebody else's field, and they're I don't know what's going on in their life, but they're just yelling and yelling. And I'm out there thinking, it sounded like it was coming from my pasture. So, yes.

SPEAKER_06 27:30

And travel, I mean, and travel and and noise, yeah, sound can travel oddly, not even because of the inversion layer. The the inversion layer, I think, is is very, especially with the with the Appalachian Mountains, is a very mountain-specific thing because often um cold air will get trapped in the valley.

SPEAKER_02 27:47

That makes sense.

SPEAKER_06 27:48

And so, you know, it's you have this warm air, and and so it's a very specific, and also here's another interesting fact about the inversion layer. Um uh inversion layers can also help carry radar signals further and radio signals further.

SPEAKER_03 28:04

Oh, interesting.

SPEAKER_06 28:06

Uh, though I'm pretty sure they I'm pretty sure it wreaks havoc on phone signals. I bet, you know.

SPEAKER_02 28:11

Well, and that's one world. The other thing is, you know, they call them the smoky mountains because of that inversion factor. Exactly. Because that warm air is just sitting there on top of the and it's kind of cloudy up, and it's that mixture of cold and warm which is causing that smoky look throughout the whole thing.

SPEAKER_06 28:28

And and kind of, I guess I think what what the the cowl sounds, I think it's a lot closer to. We're not even taking into account the various different caverns and and valleys and things that can also echo and carry sound further just because of of how things are and the mountains are especially, they have so many weird jagged edges, as well as different tree covers and formations. Like sound will just automatically travel in very odd ways in the mountains. So it's I think a good rule of thumb to not always trust your ears when it comes to where how far away things are or where things are coming from.

SPEAKER_02 29:14

Well, and we just had the situation uh last week. Last week with the the tornadoes and the sirens, because you were saying they're sirens, they're sirens, and and you were looking at it coming from Lena, and it was actually coming from Freeport. And it was like, no, walk over there and and listen, but it does, it fools you.

SPEAKER_06 29:32

Yes, it does. And actually, there's a uh I don't remember which scientific study I I saw, but there was a scientific study that talks about how um people are a lot more likely to misinterpret the direction of sound versus, I mean, obviously, I think it was that versus light. Well, like, yeah, duh. I can definitely tell where light's coming from. It's a lot easier to tell.

SPEAKER_02 29:56

Look, there's the sun.

SPEAKER_06 29:58

Yeah, yeah. I'm very glad that we don't live in a world that there's a I'm very glad we don't live in a world where uh the sun makes a sound. Um though I've you know, psst. Yeah. Well, I complete detour. I don't remember where us. I just I think it's funny. Uh, there was somebody who was talking about like, you know, people who don't experience sound until one day they do. They're they're like, I wonder if people who can't hear things if they think the sun makes a noise.

SPEAKER_03 30:33

Oh.

SPEAKER_06 30:33

Because you can't tell until until, you know, and so it I mean, I could see it where like you know, you feel something, so it makes sense that you know other senses might be able to pick it up too.

SPEAKER_02 30:44

You sound like a a a space heater.

SPEAKER_06 30:48

Or it's the Rick and Morty universe, right? Yeah, screaming sun at the planet.

SPEAKER_02 30:54

Um meanwhile, yeah, meanwhile. Okay, so I would it unless you if you've got some stories about these, I would say, from my experience, I'm I'm I'm closer to a number one on the the if they sound close, they could be far away than the if they sound no, what was if they sound close, they could be far away, but if they sound far away, they could be close. That one bother bothers me a little bit because is there such a inversion factor that way?

SPEAKER_06 31:28

I mean, if it if it sounds far, it's close. I think that no, if it yeah. I think that one, because I I agree. I think it's sounding far, but being no, it's it's sounding close, but being far, that's that's that's the cows. Yeah, that's I'm good with that. It's the cows, the cow rule. Well, I think the second rule is more of a that's where the spooky side of things come from. Okay, all right. Um, and so here's actually uh this this is uh going back to James Mooney's myths of the Cherokee. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 32:01

Um and James Mooney, he described in the the last episode was this fellow that was hired by the government to go in and be with the Cherokee people and write down some of their traditions and and their folklore. Yeah, so I guess take this with slightly a bit of grin to soul.

SPEAKER_06 32:17

In like 1902. Yeah, 1902. Uh it sounds like there might have been some purposeful misinformation given.

SPEAKER_02 32:23

That being said, um it's hence the book Tricks We Play on the White People.

SPEAKER_06 32:29

Tricks We Play on the White People, which still hasn't come in yet, so I'm pretty sure, pretty sure it was a scam. Um, but um, so it just just know that this is probably true, but there's also maybe a chance that this is a red herring. I doubt this is a red herring, but also it might be. So anyway, um, so this is once again talking about the um Butter Friends, the Yunwee Juicy did a good job with those names. I I have the pronunciation right next to that. Yeah, that was very smart. Yeah, thank you, thank you. Or the little people. I didn't have it for the other group, but yeah, this is the little people. Yeah, this is the same, same group, same little people. This is the same group as I talked about last time.

SPEAKER_03 33:09

The ones with the good hair.

SPEAKER_06 33:10

Yes, okay, exactly. Um so you remember how they enjoyed dancing in your life? Right. Uh, how every once in a while you could hear drumming from the mountains. Yeah, but don't come to their house unless they invite you. Exactly. Well, uh, keep that in mind because this account reads one time a man named Burnt Tobacco was crossing over the ridge. Burnt tobacco? Burnt tobacco. I'm assuming that's the American translation or the English translation of his of his name. Burnt Tobacco. That's a cool name. I'm I'm not gonna lie. I think it's a cool name.

SPEAKER_05 33:40

That name's awesome.

SPEAKER_02 33:41

Burnt tobacco. Burnt tobacco. Wouldn't you maybe his translation is cigar? Cigarette? It's tobacco.

SPEAKER_06 33:50

They they'd okay. I mean, you know, they'd I don't know. I guess they they might have had cigarettes, but also I think just burnt tobacco sounds a lot cooler than used cigarette.

SPEAKER_00 34:02

Stub. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 34:05

Cigar ash.

SPEAKER_00 34:06

What's your name? Stubby. I mean uh burnt tobacco.

SPEAKER_06 34:09

Yeah, no, I yeah, I think burnt tobacco sounds awesome personally.

SPEAKER_05 34:11

I apologize for um that's okay. Just never do it again. Okay. Just kidding. No. That would totally be my Indian name. Burnt tobacco. Because you are ash. That is true.

SPEAKER_06 34:20

That's true. Or I just got a lot cooler. Or your or your Indian name would be uh your Native American name would be Ashtray. Oh, that was I'm sorry, that was very mean. I apologize. I don't mean it.

SPEAKER_02 34:35

Um, it would be smoldering tobacco.

SPEAKER_06 34:38

Ooh, I like that even better.

SPEAKER_02 34:40

That's yeah, because it's not just burnt, it's like smoldering tobacco.

SPEAKER_06 34:44

Wood. I don't like that. I realize. Anyway, we're gonna move on. And we're canceled. Um can't anyway. A man named Burnt Tobacco was crossing over the ridge from Nautilus to Hemptown in Georgia. Okay. A lot of a lot of very specific kinds of uh herbs. What?

SPEAKER_05 35:11

Ash had something to say about hemptown in Georgia. Was this done in the 60s?

SPEAKER_01 35:16

1902. 1902.

SPEAKER_05 35:17

Okay, never mind.

SPEAKER_06 35:20

I understand. I understand though. It does seem very 60s. Oh, it wasn't illegal then, actually. Well, hemptown at that point in time, I think hemp was used.

SPEAKER_05 35:29

Well, I mean, like the the drug act hadn't been passed yet. So this that was all still legal.

SPEAKER_02 35:33

Well, in hemp, I mean, hemp was used for clothing and for rope and all kinds of really good stuff.

SPEAKER_06 35:39

I could be wrong about this, but actually, I think hemp was banned before any drug things happened because they were hemp was a a cheaper way to make paper. Yeah, it was too good. Basically, and and they're like they there was competition against the the loggers who were making the paper.

SPEAKER_02 36:01

Now they're government conspiracy.

SPEAKER_06 36:02

And so I think that's one of the reasons why hemp was actually, you know, okay nixed. Um so anyway.

SPEAKER_02 36:09

Anyway, back to the story.

SPEAKER_06 36:10

I could be wrong about that, but that's so so definitely if you like that fact, then fact check me, make sure that it's accurate.

SPEAKER_02 36:17

Thank you, Andrew Cray.

SPEAKER_06 36:18

U yeah, and also, yeah, let me know if I'm wrong and do it in the most hurtful way possible. Um so going back to the story, Hemptown in Georgia. So he heard a drum and the songs of dancers in the hills on one side of the trail. He rode over to see who could be dancing in such a place, and when he reached the spot, the drum and the songs were behind him. And he was so frightened that he hurried back to the trail and rode all the way to Hemptown as hard as he could to tell the story. He was a truthful man and they believed what he said. Whoa. So that to me, that's I think closer to what the rule is kind of trying to say. If you go and try to investigate, you'll miss it. Yeah. It sounds close. You try to wander and then it's somewhere else.

unknown 37:07

Uh-uh.

SPEAKER_06 37:08

Very it's almost like an audio version of the Will of the Wisp.

SPEAKER_03 37:13

Okay.

SPEAKER_06 37:13

That's what it I feel like the rule is trying to say. Um, which I like that. I think a better interpretation of that rule probably is uh just don't trust your ears. Sound sounds will be different to you.

SPEAKER_02 37:29

And don't let a sound lure you away from you. Yes. I gotta say, tequila's in my mind. Tequila.

SPEAKER_06 37:38

Uh I don't know if that's actually how the song. Anyway, okay. Um so yeah. So do you have any stories about okay?

SPEAKER_02 37:44

So what do I have?

SPEAKER_06 37:45

I know there was one story we've already told that was in the mimic episode about the person who heard somebody calling for help, and then she she walked into the forest, or the person, no, it was a she. She walked into the forest and then she heard the sound sounding like it was right behind her. Right. And it sounded like somebody was making it sound like it was far away. Do you remember that story?

SPEAKER_02 38:10

Yes.

SPEAKER_06 38:11

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 38:11

It was like, whoa. Yeah. Well, I've got one. Yes. It says, um, I live in the Appalachian Mountains and I broke one of the rules. Dun dun dun. My name is Jake. I grew up in the Appalachian Mountains and I know all of the rules, and I broke one of them a month ago. And ever since I keep feeling watched. I'm 24 years old, and a month ago I was drinking while on call with my best friend. Oh, so he was on a phone call with his best friend, and he was also drinking. His mother had recently died of a heart attack, and he was feeling down. It was about one in the morning. I locked all my doors and closed my blinds. He was talking about maybe coming over. I wish I had said no, but I was drunk and not in the right state of mind. He hangs up and I wait. About 15 minutes later, I hear a knock. I forgot to text him and confirm. I go open the door and see nothing. I yell out his name. You there? Nothing but the wind howling. The forest was awfully quiet. I shut the door and go back inside. Minutes go by and I get a weird gut feeling. It was all a haze. Um was it all a haze? 30 or 15 I this is it was all a haze. Was it 30 or 15 minutes?

SPEAKER_06 39:35

Gotcha.

SPEAKER_02 39:35

So he was I was drunk out of my mind. I'm surprised I remember what happened. There's no punctuation here. For whatever seems, for what seems like forever, my phone chimes. Jasper. Yo, almost there. Be there in 10 minutes. So either 15 minutes or 30 minutes or some period of time goes by, and from when he gets the knock on the door. Right. And now it's after that, and Jasper is saying, I'll be there in 10 minutes. I look at the text and feel my heart drop. Jasper, live. He must live very far away. He must live, or he didn't leave right away. It could be one of those friends who was like, I'm on my way as you get into the shower at that point in time. That's right. Finding his other sock, finding his shoe. Um, what did I just do? I nearly had a panic attack. I hear Jasper's voice calling out from outside. It sounded like a faint call in the wind. I begin to hear taps on the windows all around. I really don't know what it is, but I've been hearing whispers in the other rooms and footsteps and knocks. For my friend, I called him, told him to go back home, and we will remain on call for the rest of the night. I explained the whole situation to him. Interesting.

SPEAKER_06 40:57

That's sex.

SPEAKER_02 40:58

That's that's so did he let something into his house?

SPEAKER_06 41:01

Well, it doesn't sound like it. Well it sounds like things are tapping out outside. I mean, I think he called attention to himself.

SPEAKER_02 41:08

He says, I hear whispers in the other room and footsteps and knocks. So when he opened the door and said, Hey, you're there, somebody went, we are now.

SPEAKER_06 41:16

Yeah, could it could have been interpreted, especially if it's a knock and then he opens. That could be interpreted um as an invitation to come in. Yeah. Um, potentially. I think that one's so that one actually, I mean, it it works both with with um this rule as well as another one that we'll we'll be talking about as well. But um yeah, because that especially the voices. So the I I I guess I wanted to um I I can I guess I'll go into the the voices part of it. Uh because when it comes to if a voice calls your name, uh if a voice calls your name, did I answer? Uh there is actually uh a book, Frank C. Brown collection of North Carolina folk folklore. Okay. Um it reads it's so this let me back up. This this collection of folklore, uh, there was a section on there about uh superstition, and it's just talking about a bunch of different rules, I guess. Superstition rules and things. Um so this one reads if anyone calls your name and you answer or go to see and find no one has called you, you are going to die. Well, let's be happy about this. Wow. The spirit of your dead father or mother or some other deceased relatives has called to you. So if you called, so if you are called, do not answer.

SPEAKER_02 42:49

Okay, so I have a little bit of a problem with that because you know, we just did not too long ago this whole thing about dead people that come back, you know, the spirits of people who know that you're going to be dying. And so they come to basically guide you through the veil, back home, you know, all of that. You can't say, you know, la la la la la. I mean I'm not going to uh I'm not gonna follow you.

SPEAKER_06 43:18

You're right. Well, and and so again, here's the interesting thing about so well, first of all, let me let me also say this is the same book that has I I mostly just want an excuse to talk about some of these superstitions because I saw I saw some of these guys and I was like, man, these there are some interesting I'm I'm I don't want to poke fun. I think that they are very interesting. They do. I'm maybe poking a little bit of fun, but you know, so here's here's one. Okay. It is bad luck to sleep during a church service. Some family, some member of the family will die. So I'm pretty sure I alone have killed off at least half of my family with the amount of times that I fallen asleep during church. Um, another one, the first to leave. The altar, either the bride or the groom, is the first to die. This person's got a lot of death on their mind. So this this part of it actually was about death. It was only about death and dying on those kinds of things. I also feel like that specific one, I read it and I went, that sounds like a Mr. Beast challenge type. But I don't know. I don't know if you so uh uh for those of you who don't know, uh Mr. Beast team makes a bunch of different challenges, like whoever can stay in the circle, stand in the circle the longest will win ten thousand dollars or things like that. I feel like this definitely feels like whoever can stay at the altar the longest is gonna be able to live longer. And so it's just like they're just outweighting each other.

SPEAKER_02 44:44

Don't you volunteer to step off first?

SPEAKER_06 44:46

That's true. That's a good point.

SPEAKER_02 44:48

I mean, if if you're on the altar and your new husband pushes you off to get off first, immediately annul that wedding because that guy wants you to die.

SPEAKER_06 44:59

But he'll live longer than you, even though the even though it's annulled. I think that it just it just does what it means, he'll outlive you. So I'm assuming that people aren't probably in that frame of mind when this happens, but man, I just thought that particular rule was very interesting. Um, though, even though there are some you know interesting superstitions, and there's uh other ones that I would consider even more wild, um the the one about calling your name, there's a lot more references under that. There's like in each one, there's a bunch there, there's some maybe references from people. This one seems to have a lot more weight on it. A lot more people tend to believe that one. Now, does that mean that the it should be interpreted, the superstition should be interpreted exactly that way, or is that an explanation for weird occurrences happening after someone hears a voice from the woods?

SPEAKER_02 45:55

So one of the core rules of the Fay is never give your name. The Faye can use your true name to control you, use a nickname or pseudonym. So now we know why smoldering tobacco is is there. So it's actually burnt tobacco. Burnt tobacco. Yeah. Well, for for Ash, we decided smoldering tobacco.

SPEAKER_06 46:16

That's true. That's true.

SPEAKER_02 46:17

But you never give your name, you give a nickname because if somebody knows your name, they can control you.

SPEAKER_06 46:25

But he also didn't call out his name, he called out his friend's name. Oh, for this one that for the for the Reddit story.

SPEAKER_02 46:34

You're you're right. He he but he answered something. He did, and that's that's kind of a rule, too.

SPEAKER_06 46:39

And yeah, that's definitely gonna be something that we you know talk about later on. But I guess I'm curious as well when it comes to voices. Do you have any voice-related stories? Because that's so when it comes to the folklore of things, I I unfortunately don't have a lot of appalacian folklore stories that are specific to some of these. I do find I did find one that I really, really liked, but a lot of them, like I said before in this episode, a lot of them are based on ghost stories, which are in-house things and and witch stories, which are in-town situations or or very specifically personal. So it's not like there's there wasn't a lot of folklore that I could find that talked about the woods. Right. That being said, that doesn't mean they don't exist. I just wasn't able to locate them. Um, as more people share these these episodes, and as we are able to get more resources and things like that, I will I will be, there's a wish list of the various different books that I want to get so I can, you know, and and once we get more once we get more people, I can dedicate more time to being able to do all that research too. So, you know. Ready?

SPEAKER_02 47:51

Yes. Last spring, something in the woods was imitating my neighbor's baby. Oh. It sounded spot on, and I legit thought he was in the woods. But halfway to the tree line to check what it was, I stopped and wondered why my neighbor's baby would just be crying alone in the woods just behind the tree line. Brilliant. Good stopping.

SPEAKER_06 48:18

Very smart, good intuition.

SPEAKER_02 48:20

Don't insinuate it was him. My neighbor is a good grandma, and the baby couldn't get around on its own at the time. I backed up to my house and started recording the sound. After a minute or two of the crying, uh stopping and starting, something in the same spot behind the trees started loudly whistling and shaking the tree where the sound was coming from. This was happening at the same time as the baby noises. Two things were behind the tree line. After that happened, I called my grandmother to come out and listen to. We were living at her house at the time. The porch is very old and loud, and when she opened it, the porch door is very old and loud. When she opened it, all sounds stopped. And there was a big shake from the tree where the sounds were coming. Then nothing. Honestly, I kind of thought I had an episode till I checked my phone and made sure I recorded the noises and that other people could hear them. And he said this happened during the evening in northern South Carolina near the foothills of Applesia.

SPEAKER_06 49:37

Interesting. Um, so he says he recorded it. Did he put that recording in the post?

SPEAKER_02 49:44

No, no. Dang, because we can't. No, it's I mean I mean, I I gotta say, as a mom and a grandma, if I hear a baby crying, I mean, and and that's just like the feral guy that we talked about when it was a woman's voice saying, help me, help me. I mean, there are some noises that you instinctively react to and you want to go save them.

SPEAKER_06 50:07

Yeah. I also think it's a good, I think this is the best place to do this as well, to talk about this. Um, and that I would uh something that I've seen circulated throughout, especially when it comes to a lot of these lists, other people, you know, talking about them, commenting on them. Um I there's this idea that I love to address is that um a lot of these voices get attributed to either skinwalkers or windigos. Um like the like for the record, neither of those explanations make any sense. Um so when it comes to Native American and indigenous folklore, um there are a lot of a lot of interesting, as we've kind of already discussed and talked about, there are a lot of very interesting stories and myths and things in Cherokee legend. Um the Cherokee people were the ones that lived all along the Appalachian mountains. Uh the Skinwalker uh did not. The Skinwalker was part of the Navajo um tribe uh mythology, and they so the Navajo people lived in in South America, or not South America, sorry, southwestern northern America. Right, right.

SPEAKER_02 51:30

Uh Southwestern Arizona, Utah, Nevada, New Mexico, New Mexico, Colorado, some right.

SPEAKER_06 51:36

A lot of a lot of those places. And also, uh I guess two more things about skinwalkers. Number one, they're they're really a taboo subject. You're not supposed to talk about them very much. And so that's why I try to avoid talking about them. But I also want to do this now to, you know, I guess dismiss some of these ideas when we're talking about the Appalachian Mountains.

SPEAKER_02 51:59

We were really surprised when when we did like a you know, you do this initial AI search, you know, tell me about blah, blah, blah. And those those two things came up because it's like, nope, nope, skinwalkers would not be in the Appalachian Mountains.

SPEAKER_06 52:13

No.

SPEAKER_02 52:14

And and it seemed like it was a and then it was a kind of kind of common misconception, common error, yeah, that people were picking up, and probably because somehow it got into the AI universe as people think it was just a lot of internet posts were were talking about it, and they were talking about it with a lot of authority too.

SPEAKER_06 52:34

And it's like, no, that's not correct, though. Yeah. Um, and and to clarify this as well, um, when as as we as we research this, we do sometimes, you know, I I we sometimes go into uh various AI things to to help us find sources. We don't use AI for our research, we use it as a starting point, and then we kind of build off of that. So, you know, we're not we're not relying on AI for our research.

SPEAKER_02 52:57

Um we're not real, we're actually AI generated.

SPEAKER_06 53:01

We don't exist. Uh no we do.

SPEAKER_02 53:03

We would be a really weird, creepy AI, wouldn't we? AI that can't keep on a certain subject.

SPEAKER_06 53:08

That's kind of sounds like normal AI, but that's true.

SPEAKER_02 53:11

We're not as nice as AI.

SPEAKER_06 53:13

Yeah. Anyway, but and the wind it goes. So yeah, so well, so one more thing I would like to clear up with the skinwalkers as well. A lot of people talk about them as creatures. They're not. They're not creatures, they're witch, they're they're humans, witch doctor type people. They shape shift, transform into uh various different animals. They kind of wear the skin of different animals and take on the attributes. They're not entities out in the forest trying to trying to get you.

SPEAKER_02 53:38

And because of who they are and how they became what they are, is why the the Native Americans uh I I wouldn't say the word sacred, but it is just it's a taboo subject that that is not something they are comfortable sharing that information with. Um because it it's frightening.

SPEAKER_06 54:00

And to them it's it's real. I mean it's it's it's and I I wouldn't just say to them, I know it is it is real and it is a thing.

SPEAKER_02 54:07

It's yeah, and and so it's it's you're playing with evil spirits, exactly, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 54:11

And and not just evil spirits. I mean, these are people who are who are allowed intelligent spirits to connect with them somehow.

SPEAKER_02 54:20

We don't understand how that happens, exactly.

SPEAKER_06 54:23

And so, you know, so that's one of those things. That's you know, that's also one of the reasons why um, you know, I just but I also just want to because I've seen a lot of people yeah, misinterpret what what they are, as well as a windigo. Um, yeah, windigos don't they they also weren't in the Appalachian region. Um, in fact, the Appalachian region is far too warm right uh for the Windigo to to exist. Um talk about uh misinterpretate uh misinterpreted. I feel bad for Windigos because they are so misinterpreted across all forms of media. Um but basically so they they are from the uh which tribe? They are from the um Algonquin people, um which though those those tribes tended to be northern Canada or just most of Canada, um, as well as the the Great Lakes region.

SPEAKER_02 55:20

Northern Great Lakes where snow and yeah the north woods.

SPEAKER_06 55:23

Exactly. Yeah, and uh you with the windigos, uh windigos were kind of a a way to um I guess personify the the the the fear the fear and the taboo of winters, specifically the the taboo of needing to be uh cannibal during during the winter. It's it's windigos tend to be like a um a oh I can't think of the the the word um like a do not like a stu uh a tragic tale, I guess. Right. Not tragic necessarily, but I I can't find the right word. Um but it's like uh warning. Yes, a warning, a warning tale. Cautionary tale.

SPEAKER_02 56:10

There that's see once again, Ash did it.

SPEAKER_06 56:12

Thank you, Ash. Thank you, burnt tobacco. Um appreciate it. Uh no, so yeah, so it's a it's a cautionary tale because what somebody turns into a windigo, generally speaking, it it stories differ, but usually uh by consuming flesh, their heart freezes over uh during during the middle of the winter.

SPEAKER_02 56:34

Um which can't be comfortable.

SPEAKER_06 56:36

No, no, well, and and I guess part of the reason why these uh windigo stories were were so prevalent was because during the winter time it gets it it gets freezing, frigid cold. Right. And sometimes some winters ran long, and that fear of running out of food was a real fear. Right. And so, you know, you want a way to be able to discuss discourage, discourage cannibalism. Right.

SPEAKER_02 57:01

Because that I mean that's that that once again, you look like a toasty, tasty morsel, yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 57:06

No, and so and so basically if somebody if somebody consumes human flesh, they shed their humanity, right? Um, they their heart freezes over, and they become a little bit more animalistic, but they also become very uh they they become predators, they become hunters, yeah um, they tend to look um like uh starving, I guess. Uh emaciated is the term. Yeah, they're they're they're emaciated. Uh and also several different versions that I've I've read, as they consume flesh, they grow, uh which means that they will never be satisfied. They're also a very good interpretation for greed as well. You know, somebody who over-consumes, over-consumes. You can't have that in the Appalachian Mountains because there's it's just too it's too warm for that to to really exist. And it wasn't a fear there. Um, there are plenty of other really cool Cherokee myths and legends you don't need to borrow from other regions. And also, if you're gonna use the name of something, you know, make sure that Windigos, I think, are the silliest mimic thing that you could put in there because they're not mimics.

SPEAKER_03 58:20

Right.

SPEAKER_06 58:20

Um, they're again, they're predators. Also, another just statement, they don't have antlers. Windigos don't have antlers. Um, they're again they're predators. They look like the winter wizard from um what was it?

SPEAKER_02 58:34

Uh Bass and Rankins, um uh Santa Claus is coming to town, and there was the winter wizard, and he had like white, and he yeah.

SPEAKER_06 58:47

Anyway, yeah, either that or honestly, one of the better interpretations of them that I've seen was from Until Dawn.

SPEAKER_03 58:53

Okay.

SPEAKER_06 58:54

Um, though they were a little bit closer to zombie-like in that one. Um, and yeah, but still, I think that that's probably one of the better interpretations that I've seen.

SPEAKER_02 59:04

Um I still go with Winter Wizard.

SPEAKER_06 59:06

I I you know what?

SPEAKER_02 59:07

And until he was friendly and not anymore.

SPEAKER_06 59:10

And and that's the other thing, too. There are some versions where you can actually thaw the heart and they return to being human again. It doesn't happen often, but it does happen in some of the stories.

SPEAKER_03 59:21

Wow.

SPEAKER_06 59:21

And so it's you know, yeah, it's kind of cool. But um, yeah, they don't predators don't have antlers. I think that's just you know, generally speaking, if you see an animal with an antler, it's usually prey.

SPEAKER_02 59:32

Um although elk and moose, I mean, they are generally prey, but they're big, strong male prey. But they don't eat meat. No, they don't. They're right, they're not carnivores.

SPEAKER_06 59:44

Yeah, and and yeah, yeah. So generally speaking, carnivorous predators, animals, tend to antlers would get in the way. Right. And also antlers would show where they're hiding. You know, that would it yeah, you can blend in with the trees, but that's only working if you stand still. Predators don't do that. Yes, exactly. Exactly. So there, yeah, there are a lot of problems with that interpretation of Wendigo's. They don't mimic, they don't uh, they they are a lot more, I would say they're wolf-like, but not wolf people. They're just animalistic, maybe. So anyway, I just want to put that to bed. Those don't exist in the Appalachian Mountains.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:24

So unless they took a train.

SPEAKER_06 1:00:29

Or the country roads.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:30

Or the country roads.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:31

They wanted to visit their mama, yeah. Mountain mama and mountain papa in West Virginia. They took the Chattanooga choo-choo.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:37

Oh, yes, very good. Chatanooga choo-choo.

SPEAKER_06 1:00:40

I'm done. Um okay. Should we move on to the next rule?

SPEAKER_02 1:00:48

Yes, we should.

SPEAKER_06 1:00:49

Do not whistle or sing in the woods.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:54

At all or at night?

SPEAKER_06 1:00:56

In the woods. In the woods. It just says in the woods. It's not a night thing, it's a whenever thing. Do you have any thoughts, stories?

SPEAKER_02 1:01:06

I didn't have I don't have whistles in the woods. Um I I really I I don't. Um and and I guess to me that whole don't um don't whistle in the woods just seems like I I don't know if I like. Well, let me look at this. Um Nope.

SPEAKER_06 1:01:35

Wait, I forgot to do this before we go to that one. Okay, good.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:38

Let's go back and I'll look at this.

SPEAKER_06 1:01:40

Let's go back to to the last one. If you hear voices close to you, they're far away, but if the voice far away, they're close to the near. Are we voting? Yes, we need to vote to see if it's based, if we think it's based in in I would say two.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:50

Two? Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_06 1:01:52

I would agree. I would agree. I think it's there's a little bit of lore there, but it's it's heavily exaggerated to be spoopy.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:59

Okay. I don't the the the whole okay practically whisp whistling in the woods. Um and and that would only be if somebody whistles to you, you don't whistle back. Because that some places in the woods, there's some unsavory characters in the woods doing unsavory things. And um they could be thinking that, oh, hey, it's Joe coming to do unsavory things with me. I will whistle to him. And then you say, Oh, listen, there's a whistle. That's so cute. I'll whistle back. But then you're not Joe. Then then you magically transform into a corpse. That yes, you do, potentially, or you know, it's uh it gets uncomfortable for a while. Yeah. So in in that kind of case, yes. I don't think they turned that into a musical, though. I don't think somebody is singing along the Appalachian Trail, and then you join in, and then bad things happen to you.

SPEAKER_06 1:03:03

I just I just imagine like some like somebody's whistling in the woods, and then like a crit like Bigfoot just comes out and starts you know whistling in harmony, and you broke the room.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:14

They got the same choreography. They all know the this yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:03:17

Sasquatch pulls out a uh a top hat and keg and starts, you know, hella my honey, hello my darling, and then eats you. I don't know if Bigfoot eats people.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:27

I've never heard of, I mean, he could hurt you. I've never heard of that.

SPEAKER_06 1:03:30

Well, no, why would you hear of a Bigfoot eating someone? You wouldn't the person who got got eaten wouldn't be able to tell the story after. That that's true. Just saying, you don't know.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:39

Could be they probably don't though Bigfoot recipes that you order on mostly jerky.

SPEAKER_06 1:03:48

Bigfoot at home with the Bigfoots, recipes with the Bigfoots, recipes sounds like a hobbit family.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:59

Crockpot recipes for Bigfoots. And then you can see what they put in the crock pot. If it's people, if it's like hunter stew and it's really a hunter, then yes.

SPEAKER_06 1:04:09

Or it's a dude named Hunter.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:11

Yeah, right. Well, okay, there you go. That's true. Yeah, but then they'd have to ask you before they excuse me, what is your name? What is your name? I need for my recipe.

SPEAKER_06 1:04:22

I have to write it down. Thank you.

unknown 1:04:25

Why does Bigfoot talk like that?

SPEAKER_06 1:04:27

I I'm imagining in my mind, I'm imagining um uh Winston from Overwatch, uh, who is a talking gorilla.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:35

Oh, there you go. So I'm thinking in my mind, the singing in the rain thing, you know, Appalachian Trail, singing in the rain, and then people start joining in, you all start dancing down the Appalachian Trail. Yeah. I can't think that's a bad thing. Except, you know, if you slip and fall and then yeah, and then that's a bad thing. But that has nothing to do with these rules.

SPEAKER_06 1:04:53

No, no, that's just your own stupidity.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:55

That's right, and slippery feet.

SPEAKER_06 1:04:57

I guess clumsiness. Clumsiness isn't stupidity, right? Which is good because I'm I'm an exceptionally clumsy individual.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:04

Okay. So I, you know, there are those if something is singing in the woods, you know, and and and not even just woods, you know, the siren call, that whole sing, you know, phantom of the opera, come, you know, that's always kind of a bad, creepy thing. Unless it's hello honey, hello, and then then yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:05:28

Well, then then it's uh yeah, it's a it's a cryptid who just likes show tunes. That's right, which you know makes any cryptid a lot less scary when they start singing show tunes, right? Which could be its method of luring you. That's true.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:41

Only other people who like show tunes.

SPEAKER_06 1:05:43

Yeah, that that's true. Because really, if if a theater person hears somebody else singing a song from Hades Town, you know they're gonna be like, Oh, is that Hades Town? And they're gonna wander off the trail, that's right, and then they're going to not live anymore.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:55

That's true. It's like the theater kid cryptids.

SPEAKER_06 1:05:58

I bet a lot of people. Would love that to get rid of the theater kids. Both. Either you're a theater kid and you're like, my people, or it's somebody who like, ah yes, we can finally get rid of the theater kids. I was a theater kid, so you know, I can I can make those jokes.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:14

Okay. Um so going back to that, I don't I don't like the you can't sing or you can't whistle in the forest, because I sing and whistle in the forest, and nothing has ever happened to me. But I would say I don't respond to other things singing and whistling.

SPEAKER_06 1:06:35

So I think that's a fair, uh, fair interpretation. Um in terms of practicality, right? Um, when it comes to whistling, you you're right when it comes to, and and actually that's that's a note that I forgot to put into my own personal notes. Okay. Uh so good good good catch there. Um there are specific circumstances, especially so Appalachian Mountains. Right. Uh, various different areas of the Appalachian Mountains, way back when, you know, specifically during the Prohibition era. Right. Um, they there were a lot of moonshiners who unsavory characters. Unsavory characters who were doing unsavory things. Uh, here's a fun fact as well. That's I believe also where NASCAR came from. Uh, because moonshiners would be, you know, driving away from the police. And once Prohibition ended, they're like, man, is there a way that I can profit off of this? Sure enough, there was.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:30

Or that was fun driving that car so fast.

SPEAKER_06 1:07:32

That's also true. Yes. Uh, that's also why it's heavily associated with the South, uh, because it it originated there. But um, but yeah, it I think practically, in terms of being smart and safe in the woods, especially during that time, or just yeah, I'm sure even now there might be some some caves that are being used for unsavory things still. Right. Uh, you know, cartel work and things like that. I don't know if that's true, but it wouldn't surprise me.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:00

I had heard that, uh, I had heard that from some people down like in North Carolina. Okay. That that was that was a problem with some of the, and maybe not the main Appalachian Trail, but some of the other trails to some some of those national forests that because they're so thick and so dense, exactly, that um they are used as a a highway for illegal substance substances. Yes. Sorry, no, no, sorry to say they're good.

SPEAKER_06 1:08:30

But I guess with whistling and singing, I'm gonna focus more on whistling than singing. Okay. Because I think whistling, because they're both very similar, but I think whistling has a high register, which means it's gonna travel further. It's gonna travel a little bit further. Um, that's a great way to indicate to everyone somewhat an approximation of where you are. I mean, right, you know, you're you're you're telling everyone, hey, how's it going, everyone? Like I'm out here. And and so I guess it, you know, if if there are human unsavory elements, that could be dangerous. And so that could be a root. I I'm not gonna say that's a that's definitely a firm reason because I haven't seen anything about that specifically. Uh, but it logically speaking, it makes sense that that could be a potential reason why. But um it's interesting though, when it comes to the Appalachian Trail specifically, or other more broadly used trails, on the practical side of things, the opposite is usually the suggestion. Um, the Appalachian Trail Conservative uh Conservancy specifically advises hikers to let bears know that they are where they are by making noise, including whistling, talking, or clicking hiking pulls together. Just make a lot of human noises, and one common human noise is a whistle. Yeah. And so you, you know, as you're on these trails, you want these various different wildlife to be.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:57

You don't want to startle exactly a predator.

SPEAKER_06 1:10:00

You don't want to walk up on a on a mama black bear and and her baby, or else, you know, that's game over.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:10:05

Um, so yeah, so so practical advice kind of contradicts the rule, but is there a good folklore reason behind it?

SPEAKER_02 1:10:16

Uh, I have a feeling you're gonna tell us about that.

SPEAKER_06 1:10:18

Um yes, there is, but and this this is kind of the unfortunate, this is this is the bummer. So I wasn't able to find in in the book that I had that I was reading, I wasn't able to find anything specifically about that. I did, however, find that there is a general taboo against whistling specifically at night, is is where this is. But just I I I mean, there's yeah, there's a general widespread taboo against whistling at night in indigenous North American beliefs. Um, the way that I found that out, it was actually by uh as I was researching this, I came across uh the Robert S. Peabody Institute of Archaeology published uh publishing an anthology book called Never Whistle at Night Indigenous Folklore, which is highlights from the the Peabody collection. Okay. Um the downside is I haven't read it because I I haven't been able to purchase it.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:17

Right.

SPEAKER_06 1:11:17

Um, I will tell you that, and I I I plan on getting this because I'm I'm just curious in general. Um, there's so it is it is a fiction book. It is a fiction anthology, but it's a fictional anthology based on real folklore and and traditions and mythology. And it's written by like a like any anthology series, it's written by a bunch of different authors who come from a bunch of different um uh Native American tribes, one of which is from the Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:50

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_06 1:11:51

Which you know, they would they would be able to know and they have a story about whistling at night. So I don't know what I don't know what the actual lore is yet.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:59

Okay.

SPEAKER_06 1:11:59

There is lore, at least when it comes to the indigenous people. Um, but yeah, just in general, there's a taboo. And it seems like there's also a strange taboo against whistling in general. Um, I was also able to find uh, well, first of all, uh when it comes to Appalachian superstition, um whistling in various contexts can be very bad luck, including uh in Kentucky Superstitions by Daniel Lindsay Thomas and Lucy Blaney Thomas, uh published in the early 1900s, they mention that it causes bad luck to whistle in a coal mine. Oh I don't know why, but you know, coal mines, I guess but there are a lot of interesting parallels between coal mines and forests. Dark, dangerous, echoey, right? You know, all that all that fun stuff, full of unseen hazards. Right. Um, so there's that, but also there's some Pennsylvania German settler lore or or rules that I found. Um a crowing hen, a whistling girl, and a black cat are considered most unlucky. Specifically whistling, this is all about whistling girls. I don't know what about women or girls whistling is is you know necessarily bad because another one says whistling girls and crowing hens come to a bad end. Pretty gnarly.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:13:28

And this last one has uh, I I believe there's it's literally interpreted, and it's kind of messed up. I'm not gonna lie. This one's this one's pretty gnarly. Um I feel bad about this one, but again, just remember this is from the Pennsylvania German settlers. Okay, blame them. We'll blame them. A whistling girl will surely have a bastard child. Whoa. I know it's pretty gnarly. It's basically like, you know, it's insinuating some pretty nasty things.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:58

In those days, maybe whistling was was promiscuous. Promiscuous. Yeah. And so that's interesting.

SPEAKER_06 1:14:04

But that's the only part one of those that is promiscuous. Because the other the other two, they compare it to crowing hens and uh and the other one black cats. So I don't know what it is about whistling girls. It could just be because of the promiscuous uh promiscuous maybe because uh you whistle and you purse your lips, and so you're out you're it looks like you're it's the medieval, or not the medieval, it's the the uh duck face, but like the 1800s, 1900s duck face.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:33

I was gonna say it looks like you're offering somebody a kiss. Oh because you're pursing your lips. I could see it. So that can make you seem promiscuous.

SPEAKER_06 1:14:40

I could see it. But it's yeah, I guess it is very interesting that whistling is is often attributed to unluck or bad ends, or you know.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:50

Okay.

SPEAKER_06 1:14:52

That last one's pretty nasty. That is. So um, yeah. So I don't I don't know. This one's hard. I feel like I I wasn't able to find any research specifically. So right now I would have to I would say with indigenous people I would have a uh I would have evidence that there is a taboo. Something. There's something there. So with that, I would say plausible, but not singing, just whistling. Just whistling, right? I would say not singing. I do agree that following music is just bad.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:30

Oh yeah, because yeah, I mean it for you, I I guess there's two scenarios. If I'm walking through the woods and whistling, I think I'm good. If I'm walking through the woods and singing, I think I'm good. If somebody else is whistling or singing, and I don't know who that that person or thing is, I don't respond to that because that could be a lure to take me off the marked path.

SPEAKER_06 1:15:56

I will also say it it also depends on how safe you feel on the trail with obviously you have the the natural predators out there, but again, you have human elements. If you want to to let other people know that you're there, that's that's that's a you decision. You know, if you whistling is very loud, and so I would I would just maybe caution against those specific human noises only because more people will be able to to you will draw attention to yourself.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:28

Okay.

SPEAKER_06 1:16:28

And so that's that's the only reason I think practically why whistling specifically could be maybe a little dangerous. Unless, but then they the park district says to you whistle so that but they also give you a lot of other indications, including I think probably the best one to me personally is if you have two hiking sticks clicking them together. Because that it's it's a repetitive, non-natural sound that unless it sounds like a woodpecker. It's metal. I mean, okay. Yeah, if they're aluminum, yeah, exactly. They're they're aluminum, okay, two things stick hidden together, something that doesn't sound natural. Okay, um, any kind of human sounds, but ones that also don't necessarily alert or trigger the human element, because people are oftentimes scarier than supernatural things.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:18

I gotta say, and this just popped into my mind because of the um society we live in today. If you're going to go onto the Appalachian Trail, don't wear earbuds.

SPEAKER_06 1:17:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:31

Don't wear headphones, don't block yourself off to the sounds that are around you.

SPEAKER_06 1:17:36

Yeah, I would agree. And also travel with other people.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:40

Yes, yes, don't go by yourself. Right. No, that that there's too many stories.

SPEAKER_06 1:17:45

Yep, yeah. Okay. So here is the last one that I have.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:51

Okay, good. Then we'll go into mine. But what is yours?

SPEAKER_06 1:17:54

Is never look too hard into the trees.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:59

You know, and we kind of talked about that with like visual paridolia. Is that how you say it?

SPEAKER_06 1:18:07

Yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:08

Uh, where you when you stare at something, things will appear.

SPEAKER_06 1:18:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:14

So so you have that, whereas like you could scare yourself because you're imagining that clump of wood, you know, clump of leaves all of a sudden looks like Bigfoot. So you could do that. But then there's the other, and we we talked about this in the last one, you know, that the uh looking into a mirror for a long, long time and then thinking that something is there or something is there, and um, and like comes out and scratches you, or or you give it the opportunity to come out.

SPEAKER_06 1:18:46

So I would agree with that. I think so. I what I put it because I think that the way this one is worded is definitely meant for, you know, it it's it's a story specific thing. It's it's a prompt for a story, you know. How are the trees gonna play into it? But I think if you want to base it into some real world lore, you know, fit the fit the square into the rectangle, I guess a little bit. Um I I think a better way to interpret it would be don't look at what you're not meant to see.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:20

Okay.

SPEAKER_06 1:19:20

The knocking, yeah. The the story with the knocking, I think, is a great example of this. He paid attention to something that really he shouldn't have, and it invited something else into his house, assuming that that story was real.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:34

And there's and we I don't think we've ever talked about this. Um I had a situation we we were at Salt Lake City having a book signing. And um so we were at the Barnes in Noble for several hours, and then at the end of the book signing, you know, it's like, okay, so where do we find the closest bathroom? And uh this was at um a mall that had been a railroad um depot. Okay, and so it had the old-fashioned still the um art deco kind of the black and white tiles, and and they'd taken all of the the pews, you know, the benches out. So it was just this big open area that they probably used for events. Sure. And and then there was the bathrooms in the corner. So um my daughter and I went to into it. It was in the evening, it was summertime. It was in the evening, probably by this time it was like nine o'clock at night. It was fairly deserted. It wasn't, I don't think it was dark, I think it was dusky because it was summertime. That's fair. And so we go into the bathroom and we're both immediately hit by this uh flight or fight feeling. And um Sarah turns to me and says, Mom, and I said, Don't talk about it, don't acknowledge it. And so we we went to the bathroom quickly, washed our hands, got out of there, and both of us was, you know, like somebody died, and something bad happened in that bathroom. And uh later on, I I looked it up on the internet, and um, some paranormal investigators had actually done an investigation in that area, and they had a picture of this shadow creature like poking its head out of one of the stalls. It was very creepy, interesting, but that whole acknowledging something, because when you acknowledge something, I think you give it more power, and that's that was my instinctive is no, don't acknowledge it, don't talk about it, don't give it more power. And I think well, I think in the moment, obviously we're talking about it now, exactly.

SPEAKER_06 1:21:45

But in the moment, when it's there, when it can feed off of that, when its attention is on you, yes, yep, and so I do have two stories about this as well. Uh, because again, with with looking to the tree specifically, there's there's no there was no lore that I could find about that. So I do think that part of it, but the the overall idea of of yeah, not acknowledging the spooky stuff, right? Um, one example with the the indigenous people, and then the other one's actually gonna be some real okay, you know, not not real. The indigenous people obviously that's real folklore, right? But you know, finally we're gonna have some Appalachia. Okay. I was able to find something. Um, you know, the research that I did, all the hours of of listening to to the various different, you know, audio logs of various things, it paid off. But uh this first one is uh is once again found with our little friends, the the little people. Okay. The I didn't write this one down. The uni yeah, I I go back to where I said it before. Because I said a great lat that time.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:51

I the Cherokee little people. Yes, that's what it was called.

SPEAKER_06 1:22:56

Sometimes they also come near a house at night, and the people inside hear them talking, but they must not go out. And in the morning they find the corn gathered or the field cleared, as if a whole force of men had been at work. If anyone should go out to watch, you would die. When a hunter finds anything in the woods, such as uh this is also just another thing as well, which I think is a rule that I've heard, but not part of this list. So this is just a new thing that I forgot to take out. But when a hunter finds anything in the woods, such as a knife or a trinket, he must say, Little people, I want to take this because it might may belong to them. And if he does not ask their permission, they will throw stones at him as he goes home. Wow. So another good thing is don't take any objects out of the forest.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:44

I have a story about that, but that would be the paranormal in in paranormal stuff. Okay, fair enough.

SPEAKER_06 1:23:50

Uh yeah, and then the other story. The other story. It's a it's a great story. And I I actually, it's funny because I put it in the second rule when it comes to because it it is it is, I would say, um will o' the wisp adjacent. Okay, but it's the opposite of Will O'The Wisp. And uh I will I think you'll I'll I'll explain what I meant at that point in time uh when I get there. Um here six. I need seven. Oh, it's this one, okay. So this story comes from the Joseph S. Hall collection, uh, found in the archives of Appalachia by by East Tennessee University. And this story is from a man named Ellis, I think Ogle or Ogle. Ogle, I think. Ogle County, O G L E. Yep, Ogle. Okay. In the story, he describes that he was taking a trip with his mule out onto a new road near his home on a dark, rainy night. He'd been trying not to use any bad language, but on that trip, bad luck found him. When he stubbed his toe so hard, he cut the nail off. As most anyone in that situation might do, he swore in pain and anger. The moment he swore, he says, huge lights appeared, suddenly appeared right over him. He looked up at it and back at his house, which was about a hundred yards or so behind him. And he decided, I'll just look down at the ground and go on. If it's gonna kill me, it's gonna kill me anyhow. Whoa. So he he kept traveling. He said that it followed him for about a mile while he traveled looking down. The only reason he knew it was still following him was because his shadow was cast harshly in front of him, like the sun was out. Only that's as you might recall, it was a dark, rainy night, so obviously the sun couldn't be out. Uh finally, after walking for a little while longer, the light disappeared. When it disappeared, he said it disappeared in sparks. Then he found an old field out off the road, laid down, and went to sleep. Um, so which I think that part is I and and later on in the story, he goes to talk about the fact that he uh you know he wakes up and then he goes to where he was he was traveling to, which was his cousin's house. Okay, and he you know tells the about the experience to his cousin. She's like, if I ever saw that, I would I would faint, I would, you know, die, whatever. And then he's like, Well, look behind you, and they turn and and it's it shows up again. They're looking at it outside. And she, I believe she does faint, if I understood it correctly.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:39

I'm not saying it's aliens, but it's aliens.

SPEAKER_06 1:26:42

And this one does seem it seems UFO. It has a lot of those common elements that UFO stories have, that uh paranormal uh paranormal uh apathy. Right. You know, after an experience like that, you're like, man, you know, first of all, he looks down and he doesn't he doesn't go back in, he doesn't run. He and I think that's partially that's why I'm like he didn't acknowledge it. He noticed it. That's true, but he doesn't acknowledge it, he just keeps going. Yeah, he looks down and he minds his business. And if yeah for a mile is he's walking down long time, it really is. Um, I don't know if that's paranormal apathy or if he's just I mean, I so the his his voice as he was telling the story. I could see him just being that kind of guy. He is that guy. Um, but then you know, also the fact that it leaves and he's like, you know, I'm feeling real sleepy. I'm just gonna because he was he was expected to get to the other house early in the morning. Okay. But when he sleeps, he when he wakes up, the the sun is is above him. So he probably slept through the time that he was supposed to get there. But you know, trauma exhausts you. That is true. That's true. But also a lot of paranormal experiences tend to have that same exact effect.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:50

People go back to bed after they've Yeah, they go back to sleep.

SPEAKER_06 1:27:53

Or even sometimes, especially with UFO encounters, it seems like there's a a little bit of like, huh, that's that's scary. But I don't really care anymore, and they start paying attention to something else. Did you have something? Oh, okay. Yeah, it's just it's very so that I think was a good example of what to do. You know, don't acknowledge it. Notice it. Right. And and you can talk about it afterwards. But like in the moment, just kind of do your own thing.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:21

Do your own thing. I love that.

SPEAKER_06 1:28:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:24

Okay. Well, I want to talk a little bit about other laws from other groups. Um fairy laws or fey etiquette are a complex ancient set of folkloric rules for surviving interactions with the Fey. Essential rules include never giving your true name, refusing food or drink, avoiding iron, respecting boundaries like fairy rings, and never saying thank you, as it implies a debt. These rules focus on politeness, caution, and contractual accuracy. So the core rules, first of all, never give your name because they can use your true name to control you. So always use a nickname or a pseudonym. Do not eat or drink. Consuming fairy food binds you to their realm, making it difficult or impossible to return home. Avoid cold iron. Iron is repulsive or lethal to many fe. Bringing it can be seen as an act of war or a major insult. But for your protection, iron is your friend. Do not say thank you. Gratitude implies a debt is owed. Instead, acknowledge the kindness or reward them with a gift. Respect the path. Do not step into fairy rings, circles of mushrooms, or offestablished past in their realm, or you may be lost. Be polite and careful. Never insult the fee. But be cautious with compliments as they may find them patronizing. Oh, you cute little fairy. You don't want to say that. Um contractual precision. Fey are literal. If making a deal, specify every detail, time, duration, scope to avoid being trapped by trickery. And we saw that in Darby O'Gill and the Little People, which is a documentary.

SPEAKER_05 1:30:20

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:21

Yes. Do not accept gifts. All Faye gifts come with hidden strings or expectations.

SPEAKER_05 1:30:29

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:30

So key concepts in Fey lore. The unsealy and seely courts. The seely court may be playful but dangerous, often seeking help or returning kindness. The unsealy court is malicious, often causing harm without provocation. Um, time distortion. Time moves differently in fairy. Minutes can be years, and hours can be centuries in the human world.

SPEAKER_06 1:30:56

Which is why stepping into uh fairy circle can be so dangerous. Because you can walk in and then walk out, and it's 10 years later, and you didn't know. You didn't know.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:06

And your family's moved on and they've looked for you. And yes. Uh the power of iron, again, cold iron is particularly effective against Fay. Abduction and obligation. Folklore warns of fairies stealing humans for servants, wet nurses, or taking firstborn children. That's scary.

SPEAKER_06 1:31:26

No, it was specifically firstborn.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:27

That's very interesting. Yeah. Interaction etiquette. Avoid high risk times, and we talked about this earlier. Twilight, dawn, and holidays like Beltane, Midsummer, and Sawin, which is Halloween. Yeah. Are dangerous times for interactions. Be prepared to pay. Do not expect something for nothing. All interactions must be mutually profitable. Offer respectful gifts. Offering items like cream, fresh water, or shiny natural objects is better than asking for favors.

SPEAKER_06 1:32:01

And then I think that's just true all around. If you give me nice warm milk and you don't ask me for a favor, I'll I'll I'll be your friend. I'll be a friend.

SPEAKER_02 1:32:09

Yeah. This is uh this is about fairy forts. They're called ancient ring forts in Ireland, are treated with respect and superstition.

SPEAKER_06 1:32:19

Are these the mounds? Because I know she is means mounds.

SPEAKER_02 1:32:22

Right. These are some sometimes the m mounds here they're there's they're considered protected sacred dwellings of the she. But they're also sometimes just you you can see them, they've been sometimes will s have stones around them, sometimes they're they're just natural circles, but they're they're called ring forts. Okay. Uh key rules include never damaging the cutting or cutting trees on or building on them, as this is believed to cause severe bad luck, injury, or ruin. Visitors should never enter without permission, they should walk quietly and never remove anything. And there's stories about um, like there's hawthorn trees, and hawthorn trees is in Ireland considered a fairy tree. And and there's one place in Ireland, um that's okay, where the highway has been diverted, and there's an island with a hawthorn tree in the middle of it. Interesting, interesting. They did not they didn't bulldoze because there's another place where they did bulldoze through a ferry mount, and that place statistically has the highest number of accidents and people killed. Dang. And the company that built it went bankrupt. I mean, there's all of these awful, awful things that happened when they did that.

SPEAKER_06 1:33:45

Jeez. Well, I that's uh a similar thing happened in, I don't remember if it was Greenland or Iceland, but there's a lot of construction that's you know, if if there's uh um if they're like as they're building, there there were boulders and things that that tumbled down that were interpreted as signs from the I don't remember the exact term, but elves essentially. Uh and a lot of people who worked construction were like, we're gonna build around this area. I think it's wise just practically because you know, landslides could be happening regularly, but also paranormal things could also be happening regularly, and you don't want the the little folk to get angry at you. That's just I think all lore. You don't want the little folk upset.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:26

Let me and indigenous people. Here, here is this the Pocahontas Parkway near Richmond, Virginia, has a reputation for being very active, but it's not because of the cars and trucks that travel over it, it's because of the constant sightings of Native American ghosts. Before the highway project had even broken ground, archaeologists like Dennis Blanton from the College of William and Mary launched an investigation. Using excavators, they discovered the area was a treasure trove of Native American artifacts. The plan for the highway cut right through what were historically Powattan and Arahattic villages and hunting grounds. The evidence there dated back almost 6,000 years, all the way back to 3,500 BCE. Usually a discovery like this might have dissuaded the construction of the highway. However, the Commonwealth of Virginia continued their highway plans. Classic. The toll plaza for the highway was constructed on top of Native American barrier grounds, and we kind of had that conversation. Um, and it says um ramping down the road's long bridge, the truck driver's eyes, and this is from an article um in the Times dispatch. It says ramping down the road's long bridge, the truck driver's eyes widened at the sight of three flickering points of light on a high bluff to his left. The drug the truck driver came through and said he had seen three Indians in the middle of the highway lined up by the woods, each of them holding a torch. And this was a report filed by the Parkway toll taker to whom the driver related the incident. The breech clothed warriors were illuminated clearly against the thick tree line in the light cast by their own fiery torches. Turning back to the roadway, he let loose a blast from the truck's horn to warn off two more torch wielding Indians standing ahead of him, bathed in the glow yellow glow of his headlights. Um it said, and then they asked fiction, not to the truck driver, nor to the woman who staffed the toll booth. As he ducked his head out the window to tell his story, the driver related what he thought was a strange protest by local Indians, perhaps angry that the new roadway had been paved directly over some long forgotten village. But the toll taker had seen and heard too many unexplainable phenomena since the road opened. These were ghosts. At the end of her shift, she filed her report. The Times Dispatch obtained a copy from the Virginia Department of Transportation. State police were called to the scene but found nothing. No Indians, no torches.

SPEAKER_06 1:37:21

It's interesting. And I definitely I think this solidifies that one of these episodes, one of the one of these days, we need to do an episode, at least one, probably more, about truck driver stories specifically. Because this is not the first time that I've heard about a truck driver story involving seeing a Native American on the road.

SPEAKER_02 1:37:42

Right. Or something, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:37:44

Yeah, so I actually there's uh another um another story that I I listened to recently uh uh from um Jim Harold's campfire stories, and the truck driver called in. I don't remember it because I didn't prepare it, but uh, that's one that I will end up being bringing up. It was it was awesome. The story is is is is incredible.

SPEAKER_02 1:38:04

Okay, so they said, but the troopers aren't the only ones who have experienced this phenomena. An engineer for Blau Velt, a subcontractor working nights to complete the bridge's construction, also reported seeing an Indian. It was me and two or three other guys, and we could see a horse, and there was an Indian sitting on it, the engineer said. It was right at the bottom of the bridge. The engineer started towards the rider because you're not allowed to have a horse on an interstate. But both Indian and horse disappeared. Virginia Paranormal investigators tried to investigate the site, but because it's a tollway, you can't stop on the road. So they did a late night drive-by, but didn't come up with anything substantial. However, some of the comments posted under their YouTube video were very interesting. They asked Lehigh Paving to pave the road and they refused. My father's father, my friend's father-in-law told me all about it. I feel something very off on that road. I knew I wasn't tripping. I know some folks who actually saw these Indian ghosts one night. They said that it was just getting dark, and over on the side of the road they saw two Indians on horses. They weren't moving. They were just sitting there on their horses, and one of the horses was gray. They thought it was protesters because when the land was being cleared for the highway, they had to disturb some Indian mounds. They didn't find out if until a few days later when they saw it on the news, that what they had seen were ghosts. So, um so just like the ferry forts and the ferry, you know, there there are places that we shouldn't be messing with. Yeah. So yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:39:45

It's not it's not the classic trope of this was a uh a Native American bureau ground. It's sacred land. I think just that's I think a good rule to follow, good construction paranormal rule to follow. Anywhere that's considered sacred land to any group of people probably should not be paved over as interstate.

SPEAKER_02 1:40:08

Well, or or yeah, or disturbed, or just yeah, just I mean, this is from 3500 BCE, yeah, and they're they're they're showing all these artifacts.

SPEAKER_06 1:40:18

And yeah, they they during excavation, like because if you didn't know, you didn't know. That's one thing, but they saw it, yeah, and then they were just like, well, what's the worst that can happen? Right? Yeah, and so yeah, just if you see a lot of incredible artifacts from an area as you're excavating, maybe stop excavating and maybe make a detour around that area or else. That's a new excavating.

SPEAKER_02 1:40:43

That's a new rule. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:40:44

It should be.

SPEAKER_02 1:40:45

So let's go back to the these uh fairy, the ring forts or the fairy forts. So do not disturb, never destroy, build upon, or alter a fairy fort, which are often marked by circular raised mounds or lone hawthorn trees. Respect the trees. Hawthorn trees, fairy trees inside or near a fort are strictly off limits and should not be cut or touched. Ask permission. When visiting, it is rema recommended to silently, silently ask the fairies for permission to enter. Leave no trace, do not litter, break branches, or take anything from the site, including flowers or stones.

SPEAKER_06 1:41:24

Walk a general rule anywhere, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:41:27

Walk carefully, avoid taking photos if it feels inappropriate, and maintain a quiet, respectful demeanor. Beware of the fairy rings, do not enter circular rings of mushrooms as you risk being forced to dance until exhaustion according to the lore.

SPEAKER_06 1:41:48

There are some real accounts of of parano uh of uh uh cities, I guess. And I I guess these wouldn't be affected by fairy chocolate necessarily, but there are historical, many historical accounts of of cities that were afflicted with uh a dancing until you literally can't dance anymore. Yes. Uh like a disease. Yeah, it was, I mean, yeah, and and nobody actually knows what caused it. There are some theories, but all the theories kind of suck. Um, and so we'll have to do an episode about that sometime too. I did a lot of research on that one.

SPEAKER_02 1:42:20

So, common folklore and the consequences, the penalty, violating these rules is famously associated with misfortune, ranging from dying cattle to ruined crops to illness and fatal car accidents.

SPEAKER_06 1:42:31

I wonder if uh another common bad luck thing, at least in the Appalachia area, was milk going bad, blood milk from cows, basically. A lot of cows giving off bad milk. Bad milk, okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:42:44

Motifs. Protection of sites. Even today's farmers, contractors, and road planners often reroute projects to avoid tearing down a fort, and many farmers will not graze animals on them. Smart. Yep. And it says look Don't want to lose cattle. Right. While some are on private land, many can be found and explored ref respectfully using megalithic Ireland or the historic environment viewer. So that those are some of the rules in Ireland. And um, we know this episode is actually kind of getting long here, so we're gonna quickly go through these final rules for paranormal safety and investigation. Uh, never investigate alone. And also avoid conducting investigations while under the influence of substances. Makes a lot of sense. Yeah. Always obtain permission before entering a location to avoid legal issues and unwanted attachments like being handcuffed to a friend. I like that. Pray before entering. I've been on a couple investigations where they prayed for protection. I love that.

SPEAKER_06 1:43:51

That's a really good idea.

SPEAKER_02 1:43:52

I really love that. Do not invite attachments. Never, never tell a spirit that they can use your energy.

SPEAKER_06 1:43:59

Yeah. I also think that might even stretch forward to don't say you can touch me. Right. Yeah, don't don't let something touch you.

SPEAKER_02 1:44:08

Don't don't do it. Don't do it. Right, right, right, right. Uh set firm boundaries and explicitly tell spirits they cannot follow you home. Bring salt. In paranormal lore and spiritual traditions, salt is considered a powerful purifier and protector. Its primary role is to serve as a neutralizer of negative energy and a physical deterrent for supernatural entities. So my friend Ophelia Julien, uh there was going to be a group. Um, we were going to go down to, oh, where was it? Hannibal, Missouri. And uh we couldn't make it. So two other couples went to Hannibal and they went on a ghost tour and a graveyard tour. And Ophelia brings salt with her. And so basically she poured salt on the sidewalk and they stepped over it, which meant that the spirits could not keep going with them. Smart. Um, and this goes into a bunch of salt things that we don't need to really go into today.

SPEAKER_06 1:45:07

I don't know if it was salt, but I've also heard somebody putting something in their shoes as well. Oh. Uh as I don't remember what herb it was. It could have been salt. I don't remember exactly.

SPEAKER_02 1:45:17

Interesting. Um yeah. Um avoid Ouija boards and seances. And I'm a hundred, a thousand percent behind this one. Avoid active conjuring or using tools like Ouija boards, which can open doors to negative entities. You don't know who you're inviting in.

SPEAKER_06 1:45:39

Never use those. Anything that explicitly states, hey, I'm giving you open invitation open access to whatever. Right. Especially since yeah, we can't see what's going on in that, that on that side. I feel like it's you know, even if you've had good experiences in the past, I'll I still feel like you're lucky. It's yeah, it's it's it's always a roulette game.

SPEAKER_02 1:45:59

Yeah, you know, yep. Don't respond to calls if a voice calls your name without an unidentified, without an identifiable source, do not respond. That's fair. Which is kind of some of the other things we've already talked about. Respectful conduct, be respectful, do not shout or use foul language, and do not try to force spirits to cross over. And I think I added this. Don't yell, touch me, touch me, and then scream if something touches you. Do not pick up items, avoid picking up items found on the ground in high energy or cursed locations. And I have to quickly tell you, Kathy Creeso, who is the um owner of Haunted Rockford, yeah, who writes incredible books about um, and I think we used some of her stuff in in another podcast already. So she she was um invited to go down to Alton, Illinois, which is like one of the most haunted house towns in Illinois.

SPEAKER_06 1:46:58

Yeah, they have a convention every year, I think.

SPEAKER_02 1:47:00

And she was down there for that convention and she was speaking. And um, and when she travels, and we kind of did this as a family, uh you collect rocks, you know. When we we were up in Upper Michigan, there's some really cool rocks up there. So we and so um she was packing up the car, and I think somebody needed to talk to her. So she had brought her daughter, adult daughter, with her, and um her uh a daughter finished packing up the car for her. So, you know, okay, they get home, they start their week, and she's in her house and she's hearing whistling. And it's just weird. The whistling keeps and it's day after day. She's hearing whistling in her home. And she at that time was a single lady just living in this, you know, little townhouse thing. And was the whistling?

unknown 1:47:49

I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 1:47:52

I don't know.

SPEAKER_06 1:47:52

I didn't think it was a Beyoncé, uh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:47:55

Yeah. So whatever it was, it was whistling. So she finally calls her daughter and she says, Hey, when we were in Alton and you were packing things up, did you did you bring anything? And she said, Oh yeah, I found the greatest rocks, and they were right on the foundation of where the prisoner of war camp was. And I put I put the rocks into your your box of stuff, and and so she she hadn't unpacked it because it was just of course so she took the rocks and she put them out in her backyard, and she said to the rocks or to whoever was attached to the rocks, you know, I I know this is gonna be a nicer place than where you've been, but you cannot be in my house. So you can stay out here. This is a nice safe place for you. You just stay here. And she said it was been very interesting because her neighbor will come up to her and say, Do you hear whistling out in the backyard? So um don't bring things home because you will bring things home. And and you will bring things home that you don't you don't want to have.

SPEAKER_06 1:49:04

There are there are objects that are haunted, and you know, there's a lot of examples of those. And it sounds like that wasn't necessarily a haunted object, but it was part of the foundation of the probably part of the foundation of the building that had a bunch of stuff in it.

SPEAKER_02 1:49:17

Right, and he attached himself to that and came along for the ride.

SPEAKER_06 1:49:21

And so it's it was a prison break.

SPEAKER_02 1:49:23

Right, yeah, it was, and you know what? We don't know what we don't know. Exactly. And exactly, and we can't see that stuff, and so um Yeah, yeah. It's best not to actively poke things.

SPEAKER_06 1:49:36

Yeah, you don't understand.

SPEAKER_02 1:49:37

And rules were made to protect you. And so as we finish up this two part series on rules, uh, we hope you learned something.

SPEAKER_06 1:49:48

Yeah, absolutely. Uh, you know, if if if you did learn anything, um, and if you think that you've got some friends who would also love to to learn some new stuff about uh any of these. Rules, please share it with them. Uh, as well as follow us as uh you know, if you like to listening to to us, follow us and and like and do all those. You know, we we appreciate as much support as as we can get.

SPEAKER_02 1:50:12

And if there's some rules that you guys had growing up, um, especially these kind of rules, yes, that you'd like to share with us, we would love to hear them. But until next time, thanks for listening to Voices from the Attic. Take care.

SPEAKER_06 1:50:26

See you guys.