They Thought It Was A Wolf… Until It Stood Up | Dogmen Encounters

In this episode, Paranormal Mystery Author Terri Reid and researcher Andrew T. Reid explore the growing mystery surrounding Dogman encounters across the United States.

They discuss reports describing these creatures as both dangerous predators and unexpected protectors, the infamous stories connected to the Land Between the Lakes, the account of a truck driver who claimed he shot one, and the increasing number of groups collecting firsthand experiences from witnesses who believe they encountered these terrifying beings.

As more stories emerge from across the country, one question remains: what are people really seeing?

North American Dogman Project - https://northamericandogmanproject.com/

Linda Godfrey Books - 
https://www.amazon.com/stores/Linda-S.-Godfrey/author/B001JS6KKG

New episodes released regularly.

Join Paranormal Mystery Author Terri Reid and researcher Andrew T. Reid as they explore ghosts, cryptids, alien encounters, and other unexplained mysteries.

If you'd like to share your opinion, thoughts, or your own paranormal experience with us, please contact us at vftattic@gmail.com. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Around five years ago, a good friend of mine, who I'll call Nick for the story, shared a personal experience he had when he was much younger. Nick grew up in Michigan, and one weekend he and his stepdad decided to go camping in an area near a river. As the sun set, his father, who was Native American from a local tribe in the region, left to grab some hot dogs to cook over the fire for dinner. As his stepdad was gone and my friend inside their camper trailer, he noticed a movement from near the river that caught his eye. He went to the window to get a better look when he saw the shadowed form of what looked to be a dog or a wolf hunched down near the river, maybe lapping water from the stream or maybe eating a meal. As he looked, the canine turned its head and looked directly at him. Nick froze. Surely it couldn't see him. Could it? Then he watched in horror as the dog began to stand upright, eye contact never breaking. Then it began walking towards the camper. Nick raced to the built-in bed to hide under the blankets. As he adjusted to peek out from under the cover, he noticed that the front door to the camper hadn't been fully closed. Too late now, Nick thought. The canine humanoid walked to the entrance and looked in. It scanned the room before its eyes fell on Nick. As he looked, once again making eye contact, he got an odd impression. Not one of aggression, but rather of weariness and loneliness. In his mind, he seemed to understand that this creature, whatever it was, was ancient. It had been around before Adam and Eve. And was tired. Then it turned around and walked away. When his stepdad came back, Nick told him everything that had happened. Then his stepdad explained that this was a guardian spirit, a protector of us. The next day, they went to the place Nick first saw it and left an offering of meat in respect.

SPEAKER_00 2:26

Listen closely, the old walls still speak. Some things are hidden, not to be forgotten, but to be kept.

SPEAKER_04 2:34

The old house remembers what others forget.

SPEAKER_00 2:38

What is remembered is most truly good.

SPEAKER_04 2:42

Listen closely, and you too may just hear voices from the attic.

SPEAKER_05 3:00

Well, hi. Welcome to Voices from the Attic. Today we're going to be talking about dogmen.

SPEAKER_01 3:08

Yes, yep. I am Andrew T. Reed. I am researcher, editor, um, paranormal enthusiast, and a big old giant nerd. And I'm also a son.

SPEAKER_05 3:19

Nice. Hi, I'm Terry Reed. I'm an author, researcher, podcaster, um, mom, grandma, and um really freaked out actually about today's um today's episode. Um it it was really interesting. You know, it I came into this watching some um documentaries, doing some reading, but then today I really kind of did a deep dive and uh there's pages and pages of organizations that are studying dogmen. And there are uh places where people can go online throughout the country, uh, actually throughout um the United States, Canada, and Mexico, and input experiences that they have had um seeing these dogmen, these these dogmen experiences, and it's it's just it it reminds me so a long time ago. There used to be something called SETI, S-E-T-I, and it was a search for extraterrestrials. And what you would do, and I think it was like late 90s, you would download their screensaver onto your computer, and then at night you would leave your your computer running with their screensaver, and then they could use uh the combined computing power of America. And actually it was to basically search the skies for extraterrestrials.

SPEAKER_01 4:56

That's cool.

SPEAKER_05 4:57

It it was real and and lots of people did it because lots of people believed, and this was like before the internet was uh at least a big thing, you know, like an everyday thing. Yeah, and but but we kind of believed in this whole extraterrestrial and nobody else did. Oh, you're nuts, you're nuts. And now, okay, so the government comes out and says, Oh yeah, I remember when we said there wasn't any. There was, you know, and you're just kind of wondering now, as you research dogmen, you know, oh yeah, the no such thing. I'm I'm a little bit freaked out because wow, there's a lot of stuff out there about it.

SPEAKER_01 5:34

Yeah. Now I I just to make sure, just so that no comments will will come after you. I want all comments to come after me. If there are any comments, they're gonna tack anyone, you know, I'll I'll be the I'll be the bullet shield. But um the the government offici didn't officially come out and say it themselves. Whistleblowers of the government did come out and say that there are um UFOs, they've admitted they're UFOs.

SPEAKER_05 5:58

But the government President Clinton came out and said there was. Aliens? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:04

We'll have to find I I'll have to find where he said that. I believe he was. He did say that he believed.

SPEAKER_05 6:11

They they both said that they Obama said that there was aliens.

SPEAKER_01 6:14

And and they they said that they believe that there are aliens, but they also made sure that people knew that they that they officially said the government weren't keeping any humanoid alien.

SPEAKER_05 6:26

Except then you're right.

SPEAKER_01 6:27

And I I'm not saying I'm not disagreeing with that, but I'm just saying the the government, its official stance is there is a strong possibility of of extraterrestrial life. I just want I just wanted to say they haven't officially said that that, but there are a lot of strange phenomena that they do report. But I know. But also, um I mean when it comes to just anything with with with the dog man and with um Ghosts. Ghosts, I think we're diving into a a different kind of topic that we don't that we haven't really dived into before. Uh and we, I mean, these are the kinds of things that we want to keep diving into. But as we go forward, you know, uh I think we said this in an earlier episode, but I'm just gonna restate. Check where your own line is. Figure out, okay, so I believe in ghosts, but I don't I don't believe in aliens because that's preposterous. That's crazy. I I could believe in aliens, but Bigfoot, come on, that's that's ridiculous. There's no evidence of that. Figure out where your line is, and then ask yourself, why is that line there? What put that line there? Is it just a is it is it personal preference, or is it something that maybe has been ingrained in us by, you know, I mean, there's a lot of pop culture out there. Even even in shows where shows and movies and and books where extraterrestrial life turns out existed, the people who believed it are the weird conspiracy nuts. And like the exactly, and it's it's the characters who are nuts. And so it's like, okay, why? Why? And so just ask yourself that as we go through, just you know, re-examine your own, be use critical thinking on your own biases as well. And you know, always always try to keep an open mind as we talk about these kinds of things.

SPEAKER_05 8:26

So I kind of jumped into things because I was a little bit freaked out. So uh let's do some housekeeping because we didn't do that. Um, so thank you for we've got new subscribers. Thank you very much for subscribing, for liking, for sharing. Um, I'm not gonna ground you, but we would like to get more comments.

SPEAKER_01 8:44

We're not upset, we're just a little disappointed.

SPEAKER_05 8:48

Oh, I love that. You're gonna be a great dad someday. That's a good thing. Thanks. But really, if you want to um, and okay, so this could be our problem. I finally turned on uh fan mail on podcasts because we didn't have that. So you guys could have been trying to um to comment and we didn't let you. That's so that's true.

SPEAKER_01 9:09

Yeah, yeah, but but also uh still reach out to us through email as well if you have anything. I mean, comment, I think is gonna be best for all the algorithms. So we would love all of you to comment your thoughts on on various different things. There are a lot of stories that we'll go over. We would love to know what you what you're thinking about that, have discussions, you know, argue with each other about how correct we are or how silly and and superstitious we are. Um, but also if you have your own paranormal experiences, share those. Yeah, well, you can either put them in a comment or I would prefer to email those to us as well. But either works, either way is is good. Um, but also if you do comment your ghost story on YouTube or on a podcast forum, just know we may or may not use that as well. Um so also if you have a comment that contradicts one of us and then we look it up and you you're correct, we might call you out too and be like, hey, thank you for for checking us a little bit. You know, we call you out in a good way, yeah. Yeah, not in a bad way. Yeah, we're gonna we're gonna uh sh shout out shout out is is that's positive. Yeah, we're gonna you know shout out, not not shout you out, but we're gonna give you a shout-out. There we go.

SPEAKER_05 10:27

Also, doing a little bit of a calling out in last uh week's drop, um, well, uh okay, in the episode about voices in the first the first episode, there was this thing that was supposed to be this funny little thing that Andrew does. Cause he produces it. Uh-huh. Um so okay, so if you've watched it already and there's like this a little bit of a black space.

SPEAKER_01 10:58

And we're talking about bugs. Yeah. So so what happened was um we we were we were talking, and uh I'm sure if you watch the the episode you'd know uh suddenly there was a a bug that walked on the lens. Now my plan initially was to have us like looking at it, and I because I look at the the lens directly and I'm like, hey, uh it does that that bug on the lens, can you see that? And then I cut and then I go further into the uh the and the plan was to add like a little like uh a beep type thing afterwards. Um I didn't add that in. I forgot because um this was one of those fast turnaround episodes, and so uh, you know, there's always something. There's always something I'm missing. Um I'm trying not to miss things, but uh yeah, so it should be that black space should be edited out by the time you see this. But if not, then I have failed.

SPEAKER_05 11:55

If not, he did it on purpose.

SPEAKER_01 11:56

I did it on purpose. It was an artistic choice.

SPEAKER_05 11:58

It was, yes.

SPEAKER_01 11:59

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_05 12:00

There's a bug sitting on my notes.

SPEAKER_01 12:02

I I saw I saw him.

SPEAKER_05 12:03

Okay, well he's just listening. We we we okay, so no new merch.

SPEAKER_02 12:08

I don't know where this bug came from.

SPEAKER_01 12:09

It's the same bug that was crawling. Well, not the same bug, but like the same kind. Those stink bugs, they look like are they stink bugs?

SPEAKER_05 12:14

Well, that's what Jenny said. They're they're like they have like um um almost it looks like a shield. Their bodies are are like it's very interesting. Anyway, I he's reading my stuff. So we'll see if it's maybe he's editing. If he picks up a pen and starts scratching things out, can you see it?

SPEAKER_01 12:31

Can you see it on the wide? Can you see the bug on the wide? Oh okay. Well, yeah, okay. I was gonna try to show uh our YouTube cut to the wide. I want to show our YouTube audience. Uh if you're on if you're a podcast, then uh it's the description, the simple description, it's a like like was said, it's got kind of a shield look to it. It's brown, um, and it it it's durable, it takes a lick and it keeps on ticking. Um it's it's it's a big boy. And I I don't remember growing up, I don't remember seeing those guys, but when I came back from uh uh at this point, it was from Texas back here. Um they're everywhere. Well, they're not everywhere. That's the thing, they're not everywhere, they're only in your attic. And and in my room sometimes.

SPEAKER_05 13:20

It's and it's me.

SPEAKER_01 13:22

I think it might be me. I might be bringing these things. I don't know what it is about me.

SPEAKER_03 13:28

I see them at my house occasionally.

SPEAKER_05 13:30

Oh, that's good to know.

SPEAKER_01 13:32

So it's not just me.

SPEAKER_03 13:33

They're just hanging out with cool people.

SPEAKER_01 13:35

That's right. Yeah, that's so if you don't see them, I'm sorry to say magnetism.

SPEAKER_05 13:40

Buggy magnetism. Buggy magnetism. Okay, so now I think we've done enough housekeeping. Let's uh think so. Let's go on with the show.

SPEAKER_01 13:48

Yeah, yeah, let's let's dive into it. I was gonna take a uh You go ahead because I've got some stuff.

SPEAKER_05 13:53

Fantastic, good. So um, so one of the things we want to talk about is the difference between like dogmen and uh werewolves and lugaroo and those kinds of things. And um Andrew's got the research because he's that kind of guy. But for me, the simple thing is I'm just that kind of guy. He's just that kind of guy. Um for me, it's dogmen are dogmen all the time. You know, they go to sleep dogmen, they shower dogmen, they eat dogmen. They that's who they are. That's the creature that they are. Werewolves historically are like shapeshifters. You know, it's that uh Lonchaney, you know, full moon. I'm a dogman, I'm a werewolf. And uh the same with Lou Garou. It's that same um idea, is that they're human and that because of a curse or a bite or a hereditary thing, they then turn into um these werewolves. And in Ireland, and and I was gonna look it up and I didn't, and I apologize. In Ireland, the werewolf people who come and and change are actually people who protect the the communities that they're in. And so um werewolves were not always considered these these scary attack people things. They were often like the guardian, the spirit guardians of communities.

SPEAKER_01 15:20

I did find what you were talking about. Yay! Um, I don't know how to pronounce that. Uh but this is what this is what Google, it's little, because I I Googled it and I'll just summarize its AI summary thing. So take it with a grain of salt because you know, but Irish werewolf folklore, or Felaud. Um also con Conrict. Uh I mean you try. You try. I know that Gaelic features, um, they they do a fun little twist on the Germanic alphabet.

SPEAKER_05 15:58

Failo. I think like phallo, it's F-A-O-L-A-D-H. So like Yoke is the D H too, and and it's Yok. So Falo or Conrad. Anyway, that goes ahead.

SPEAKER_01 16:18

Anyway, but it features benevolent, protective shapeshifters rather than evil monsters. Exactly what you were saying. Rooted in myth uh medieval legends of the werewolf werewolves of Oseri, these figures were often considered guardians of children and the lost, sometimes acting as mercenary warriors, distinct from bloodthirsty European tradition. And I think part of it as well is just the and and we'll dive into this as well, because there's a lot of interesting parallels between that and some of the other, you know, Native American folklore. Yeah. Um, but um part of it might also be because of the perception of the the Celtic people when it comes to wolves in general versus people from other like French, because you know, the Lou Guru, which is a shapeshifter um witch or whatever. Like it's or or it's a curse. Um it's interest well, I'll I'll go back into that later. But uh, and I was gonna say it's interesting. I was gonna I was gonna say it. I was gonna say it and I stopped myself, guys. Um but then you said it. But I I did let you guys know that but but everyone said I I was halfway through the words. So anyway, going back, uh Lou Garou, I think part of the reason why it was so feared was because of the French, German, English perception of wolves because it's a lot of farmers. Whereas the Celtic people, while there there were there was farming and things going on, it was a lot more uh tribal and there it was I won't say m migratory, but I feel like they had a a stronger respect for wolves. There wasn't as much fear, there was an idea of boundaries, an idea of yeah, respect. Whereas, you know, the French people they just looked at them with fear because they would they would kill their their livestock and and all that stuff.

SPEAKER_05 18:13

And I wonder if size, because Ireland's an island. True. And and in obviously Germany, I wonder if there's bigger timber wolves there than rather than the dire wolves were you know, I don't know how long ago they went extinct, but I know that they they existed.

SPEAKER_01 18:30

Right. Um I yeah, I don't know if they I don't know how far back if they would have been part of any medieval memory. I know that they were gone before medieval times, but I don't know uh how far before medieval times they were. But yeah, no, that could have also been part of it too.

SPEAKER_05 18:46

So let's do kind of a blast from the past. Um so we're not sure if you know so you have the Egyptian Egyptian god Anubis, who kind of looks like a dog man. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:59

You you've got the head of a beast, a dog, and and the body of a man. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 19:03

You have several other. Do you want to talk about that?

SPEAKER_01 19:06

Uh yeah. So there's there's a bunch of these. Um, and and what you were saying as well, with with the difference between dog people versus werewolf. Right. There are so many cultures that have shapeshifting mythology. And it's not always the like the Lugaroo um wasn't always just a well, I think French Lugaro was always a wolf, but then Southern Rougarou was a lot of different things. It could be a wolf, it could be an owl, it could be uh a bear, it could be a lot of there are a lot of animals that the shape shift into. But these are always stuck as as um as Steve Cook, uh, who is a disc jockey that we'll be talking about later, as he put it, dog men are always stuck between half human, half dog. Um but there were a lot of um dog-headed creatures, like let's see if I can find the first half of this. Oh, it's because it's on the back part, because it's reprinted double side. That makes sense. Um so we have the something in Latin, which is a it's a dog-headed creature from that that existed in uh uh in ancient um uh Greece and Rome. Um existed in the edges of the then then known world. Um we also have a lot of countries Ethiopia, Sudan, India, uh the Asian steppes. Um there were monsters such as the bleme, uh humans with no heads and a face, uh sorry, humans with no heads and with a face on their torsos. Um so this is just talking about monsters in general. Uh schiopods, meaning shadow foot. Uh, this is from an an art a journal um about dog headed no heads and their faces were in their torsos. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 21:07

I'm just picturing one of those goofy c costumes where where they show their belly button, they put faces in their bellies.

SPEAKER_01 21:14

Oh, I'm thinking of um um monster uh the the old Nickelodeon show. Umsters. Ah Real monsters, yep, yep. That's so yeah. So this again, this is from uh a journal. This is the the concept only. I didn't read the the actual journal because um they were only focusing on uh the dog people of Croatia, and they're they're focusing on it so they could basically so Croatia has dogs. Croatia has has dogmen mythology and legends. Um you got uh yeah, the skiopods, meaning Shadowfoot. Uh, you got the Amazon, you got Cyclops, all these guys, but uh let's see, ancient descriptions of monstrous people, precisely the dog headed creatures were most. Commonly featured. Uh Herodis reported on them as early as the 5th century BCE in his histories, placing them in Libya where they supposedly live together. I'm assuming it's pronounced Libya, L-Y-B-I-A. Okay. Where they supposedly live together with unicorns and headless men with eye oh yeah, with eyes on their chest. So headless men again, but not eyes on their chest. Um anyway, so yeah, eyes. Eyes. Yeah. I don't know.

SPEAKER_05 22:32

Did you get like hair in your eyes if you were a hairy guy?

SPEAKER_01 22:35

We're assuming that they had uh I mean, yeah, we're assuming that they had hairy chests, but also they might think the same thing with us. You guys have hair on your heads. Like I can see. Yeah, I mean, we yeah, maybe maybe the chest chair just folk just just acted as normal head hair for us. You know, yeah. But uh, so they are all over the place. Um, a lot of Native American uh folklore has it as well. Uh though a lot of Native American folklore it's it's looked at a little bit differently, but it's still there. Uh that I think we're gonna dive into a little bit deeper later on. Okay. Um says uh dog hunted creatures exist in the mountains of India, excuse me, reported that reporting that they had canine heads and clad themselves in beast skins. They had no language, but they communicated among themselves by barking with other peoples, by waving their arms about as if they were deaf and dumb.

SPEAKER_05 23:32

Interesting.

SPEAKER_01 23:32

And then in the first century, the Roman author Pliny the Elder appropriated Stetessia's ideas about mythical peoples in his uh naturalist Historia, Historia, a work resembling an encyclopedia, and expanded on them using the descriptions of the Greek historian historians uh I'm not gonna say their names. Okay, but Greek historians. Yeah. Uh so Pliny expanded the description of dog headed creatures by adding that they lived in caves in the mountains of India, that they had large teeth and breathed fire, and that they ate raw venison meat, hunting the animals by using their large claws.

SPEAKER_05 24:14

So here um in the States, in 1937, I think is one of the first places in Wexford, I believe, Michigan, was one of the first places that there was a documented case of dogmen.

SPEAKER_01 24:28

Really, that's fascinating.

SPEAKER_05 24:29

In 1937. And it was um loggers in a logging camp. They saw it and they they wrote to they they were interviewed, and and there was an article in a local paper about this dogmen that these loggers saw. So that was that was kind of um the the first documented here in the United States.

SPEAKER_01 24:52

So then I um I of course it's I mean, I just think it's funny. It's of course it's loggers. Loggers were also the first ones to run up against uh um, I believe everyone assumes that it's Sasquatch, uh, but like getting attacked. Right. There, I I don't remember the exact name of it. We should definitely do an episode on it later on. It's a historical event where a bunch of loggers some of them died. A bunch of loggers ended up having to they they ran into a log cabin because one of the people who saw one of the these big foot Sasquatch dudes uh shot it. Ooh. And the rest of them started attacking them, and they were like throwing large boulders and things. Okay, we're gonna be able to do that. And later on, it was it was blamed to be um which the lamest blame ever. It's like, oh, there were some Boy Scouts that were in the area, and they were just pranking them by rolling uh a giant bulk. I'm sure loggers would know the difference between a large boulder being rolled versus a bunch of large rocks being thrown, but you know. Anyway, but yeah, it's always loggers. It's always loggers.

SPEAKER_05 26:02

So the whole area up in Michigan, upper the UP of Michigan, um actually not only the mitten of Michigan too. I mean, that whole area and Wisconsin, the Midwest. The Midwest has has uh a history of these dogmen. And I want to talk about um Linda Godfrey, but before I think prior to because Linda Godfrey's article came out in 1991. So I think your thing with Sam came out before that. Why don't you talk about that?

SPEAKER_01 26:31

So the name of the dogman really was kicked off with this um kicked off here with with Sam uh sorry, not Sam, Steve, Steve Cook. So the term dog man really kicked off when disc jockey Steve Cook played a song that he cooked up on April Fool's Day, 1987. They played it twice. All right. Um, and after he said that um well, I'll I'll read uh the interview that he had with Tina Sawyer. He said initially nothing happened. Jack played it twice on the air, our morning man. And there was really no reaction until about an hour after he got off the air. Our receptionist took a call from a man who said, I heard that song that played this morning, and I want to know more about it because I've actually seen this thing. And the receptionist passed the call over to me, and I spoke to him and told, and he told me a story that literally made the hair on my neck and arms stand up because it had happened 50 years ago before that in 1937.

SPEAKER_05 27:41

That's my guy.

SPEAKER_01 27:43

Probably it told the story of fishing along the uh Musk Muskegon. Okay, Muskegon. Muskegon, thank you. Muskegon River, and a pack of dogs came out of the woods and encircled around him, and one of them stood up and looked over. Sorry, one of them stood up and looked at him. He was so terrified by the story, or by the event that he had never told the story to anyone, including members of his own family, until he heard that song. And I was the first person that he had ever told. And from that, and from that point, it just snowballed. There were reports there were reports began to come there. I don't know if he if he misspoke or or if just re um the writing, but there were reports that began to come in throughout the day from people saying that's no joke, it's a real thing. And then we started looking into the history of it, and it turns out it actually had one, which made it even creepier for all of us involved. So he accidentally tapped into the zeitgeist, right? And he created basically he tried to make up a cryptid. And and granted, I feel like it's really difficult to make up a cryptid because there are so many monsters in mythology that like are just you know half human, half eagle, half lion, half-eyeballs on their chest, right? Eyeballs on their chest, and and yeah, that that's all that's too many halves. That's like five halves too much, and that's probably why they're so upset about life. Yeah, um, and so it's hard to do that. But also, like he thought that he was completely clear, but then not only is it uh a cryptid that existed that people have experienced, but also it's people have experienced it in his home state, right? Which I think is awesome. Well, I don't know if it's his home state, but it's the state that he was living at the at the time.

SPEAKER_05 29:37

So let's move forward a couple of years. And you have Linda Godfrey, and Linda Godfrey uh was uh a journalist, and um they needed a feature story, I think it was for Halloween, and she just kind of thought it was gonna be this throwaway uh article and uh for a uh slow newsweek, and and they had received reports of this quote unquote werewolf, and uh it was in um in Wisconsin and near Elkhorn, Wisconsin. So she went down and and she actually went to the animal control guy and she said, Um, you know, I'm doing an article about, you know, some people said that they've they've seen this this and she called it werewolf. Right. And he said, Oh, hold on a second. He went into the file, he went into his filing cabinet, and he pulled out a file that was like three inches thick. I love that. And the only thing on the outside of the file was the word werewolf reports.

SPEAKER_01 30:45

That's amazing.

SPEAKER_05 30:46

And he had reports in this thing that went back to the 30s of people seeing and specifically on Bray Road. And so Linda coined the term the beasts of Bray Road. But it really, as you look at it, it's it's more dogman. You know, it and and people uh have seen it chasing their cars up Bray Road. Oh, they've seen it eating uh roadkill, they have seen it running through fields. And I actually drove Bray Road. It's it's not that impressive, it's just this country road, it doesn't go for very long. Really?

SPEAKER_01 31:24

So it's just that it's the dogman's territory.

SPEAKER_05 31:26

Well, a dogman's territory. When you start looking into it, really um, it's all around that whole area.

SPEAKER_02 31:33

Gotcha.

SPEAKER_05 31:33

But you know, if you're looking for a great title, the Beast of Bray Road, I mean it's got that alliteration. That was sexy, so yeah, and so it's very interesting because it pretty much changed Linda's life. Yeah, because it went national and people started coming to Wisconsin to to look for this Beast of Bray Road, and she uh wrote several books about it. She did a lot of investigation about it, and she really kind of moved this whole idea, I think, into national spotlight about um about the Beast of Bray Road. And unfortunately, Linda passed away, I think, two years ago now.

SPEAKER_06 32:12

Yeah, a few years ago.

SPEAKER_05 32:13

And but before she passed away, she she lived not far from Kettle Moraine State Park. And she lived in a very forested area, and she was reporting on her Facebook page about these um something was leaving like stones on her deck or taking things off or doing and uh she was kind of freaked out about it a little bit. It was like something was saying, you know, we we know you live here.

SPEAKER_01 32:44

Oh so that's see, and it's yeah, it's very one of my favorite things about Linda getting like diving into this, because exactly what you said, she she started off thinking that it was that it was just uh you know a Halloween feature story, a silly story, you know. It was there there'd be maybe one or two stories, but you can see in her in her long career as a as an investigative journalist, that's exactly essentially what she what she was doing. She not only started to see that there was something more to the dogman, because there were so many detailed witnesses and so many varied accounts as well, but then she started to dive into other avenues as well. And it really there, there's just there's so much that we don't know, and that was what she was essentially reporting on. She was cryptid, but also um uh 40 and I uh things a little bit too. Yeah, and I I mean I love it, it's it's awesome.

SPEAKER_05 33:51

Yeah, she did. I let me um this is one of the stories that she talks about. Um, she received an email from somebody named Danny Morgan. In the message, Morgan claimed to have been in the Elkhorn area the previous Saturday night when he saw something crazy. A wolf running across the road on two legs. This was just a few days before the super blue blood moon on January 31st. Hey, I took this photo Saturday night in Elkhorn north of Lake Geneva after hitting a couple of bars with my buddy. Morgan wrote, I told my brother I saw a wolf run across the road on its hind legs. Figured the full moon causes animals to act weird, or I scared it, but he said there are werewolves in Elkhorn. Morgan said he thought he was on Weeks Road, but that he kind of got lost after I dropped my buddy off, and I just went north until I found Highway 43. Weeks Road is just a few miles away from Bray Road. The website, the article goes on to say, in an email to the National Cryptid Society, Lon Strickler of Phantoms and Monsters wrote, I talked to the witness, Danny Morgan. From what I can tell, he had just dropped his friend off at his home. I'm keeping the actual location under wraps at the moment. He noticed the wolf in the cornfield on four legs walking towards the road. His camera was handy because he had never seen a wolf in the wild. He slowed, and when the wolf approached the road, it stood up on two legs and walked quickly across the road. Oh. He said it walked just like any human would, didn't stumble or look awkward. The wolf was also swinging its front legs like a human walking. Honestly, I believe the guy. Hmm.

SPEAKER_02 35:38

So um Is that that's not the gable footage, is it? Um it sounds like it was a camera.

SPEAKER_01 35:46

It doesn't sound like it was there's so there's there's some when you research Dogman, and I I I didn't look up the gable footage specifically. Um that's something that maybe we'll have to to look at in part two.

SPEAKER_05 36:01

Um because I think we have enough stuff that there will be a part two of Dogman.

SPEAKER_01 36:05

Later on down the road, it'll be less of a part two and more of a revisiting uh Dogman, seeing how he's doing, you know. Um good puppy. But uh and yeah, there's well anyway, so um, but there's footage out there that may or may not have been uh proven false, I guess. Okay, and that's that's why I I feel like I would have to do more research in that specifically because a lot of people are like, oh, it's fake, but also you know, we know what the the Patterson Gibland. Right, right. A lot of people want that to be fake, and so they're just like, oh yeah. People have it's uh it's already been shown that it's fake, whereas it that that's not the case. That's not true. Yeah, people like, oh yeah, it everyone knows it's a phony because somebody came out and claimed that he was the guy that did it. Well, actually, like three or four people have claimed it, and all of them have weird, not very believable stories. Uh, and they don't make any sense. Plus, when you look at the the you analyze the costume itself, if it is a costume, then it's the best costume ever that nobody can replicate.

SPEAKER_05 37:19

They didn't have that kind of costume technology. The fact that you can't today have that when you see the muscles moving, I mean, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:27

Well, and and something one with the with the head on that. I know this is Bigfoot, but also Bigfoot and Dogman kind of are related, and we'll we'll get into that maybe later. Uh well we will get into that later because you know, but with with the the footage of Patty, the mask you can look at the forehead, it it goes in further than a human's forehead could. Costumes can only pat out. They there's no way physically to get the, you know, unless they like made it too, but but it doesn't look like it's right extra extra tall. Um, and also, you know, they they could tell it was a girl as well because of uh, you know. Girl parts. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So, you know, so that's why I don't I don't fully buy yet about about uh um about the other footage. I'll have to do my own research to see if those are just people saying, Oh, it's a phony, or if it's actually been fully debunked.

SPEAKER_05 38:30

Well, and and I have to say, um anymore footage doesn't do anything for me because with AI out there, yeah, and and and it seems like all even before AI, all of the footage you see is fuzzy, or it's like, can't you, you know, can't you see back there? And you really squint that close one eye.

SPEAKER_01 38:54

Yeah, that that particle moves just when that guy says something.

SPEAKER_05 38:59

But to me, it's it uh are the the the number of personal um stories. And so today what freaked me out, there is a um if if and you guys go look on Facebook, there's a website, uh Facebook, Dogman, believable evidence and encounters, and people are having these conversations with each other about seeing, and we're gonna talk about land between the lakes, seeing uh their experiences of land, land between the lakes. Then there's the Alabama Dogman Association, and they specifically look at and people are are on there saying, Well, I live in so much, and oh yeah, I've and they're having these conversations about dogmen, like we would have about you know, deer, you know, oh yeah, I saw a deer in our backyard. There, and this one was the um North American Dogmen Project, and they have a website, and and they have 700 members, and it says the North American Dogman Project is made up of volunteers in many states of the continental U.S. and growing. The majority of our members have backgrounds in the fields of law enforcement, military, and other crypto groups. Most are experienced observers, hunters, and possess good tracking experience and ability. The NADP members have professional technical knowledge in handling equipment for evidence collection purposes. Our team is available whenever we are needed. We welcome anyone who is willing to help us in the hunt if you are interested and they give you this information. So here is this.

SPEAKER_01 40:44

I'm interested.

SPEAKER_05 40:45

And it says the goal of the NAP NADP is to gather as much information about the creature phenomenon known as dogman and werewolf. We seek to unite researchers and investigators in one common goal, and that is to organize, network, research, and report.

SPEAKER_01 41:08

And so then if you don't mind, there is one that um we might put that link in the I'm putting I'm putting that because I mean I know for me personally, I would love to. I mean, any of these organizations that are about collecting, gathering evidence and data and and trying to actually make it accessible to others, uh, that's something I want to be a part of.

SPEAKER_05 41:28

So what I'll send it to you. They had a map of the United States, and then they have all these little flags, and each flag, and there was hundreds, was somebody who'd written in with their dogman story. And so I want to share one with you. Yeah, this is in Lynn County, Iowa, which is like our neighbor. Um, and this is from um July of 2014. I was on patrol as a deputy sheriff for the county and was usually assigned to the to Highway 13 or Highway Thir 30 corridors. However, I recall that particular July 1st um that a young man, a 16 or 17-year-old, had been sucked into a storm drain which emptied into Cedar Lake near the Quaker Oats plant. So I'm thinking, yeah, that's incredibly scary. Um and I'm thinking where it is this like Des Moines. I I don't know where Quaker Oats has a big plant. Anyway. And and did it, excuse me, did they say what state this was? Yeah, this is Iowa. Iowa Glynn County, Iowa.

SPEAKER_01 42:36

Yeah, yeah, I don't know.

SPEAKER_05 42:37

So he says, this is a place with heavy foot traffic and located in an urban setting. The area is also bordered by Mohawk Park. Okay. So we're talking urban. As the search went on into the night, the local police department got the county involved. I parked my cruiser at what I believed was the electrical the electric company storage yard. The yard had what I estimated to be a 10-foot-tall fence that ran parallel to a paved bike trail on the other side, of which runs a large concrete spillway to siphon off flood waters. I arrived at what I estimated to be roughly 11:30 p.m. to 1145. I estimate only because I assure you, there never was nor will be an official statement or record with my name on it telling this story. That makes sense. As I left the lot, I was at the north end of the lake and headed west on foot. There was a lot of brush and saplings between the spillway and the trail, so I proceeded on to the point the trail turns south near where the Cedar Lake empties into Cedar River, under the railroad tracks leading into Quaker Oats. I wonder if this is Cedar Cedar Falls, Iowa. I bet you it is.

SPEAKER_01 43:53

Cedar Cedar Rapids. Cedar Rapids. Thank you. Okay. So it's near the um the amusement park then. As well, right? That's Cedar Rapids is the amusement park too in Iowa. Which Adventureland?

SPEAKER_02 44:08

Isn't isn't there Cedar Rapids? Isn't there I think that's in uh Ohio.

SPEAKER_03 44:14

You're right. So I was gonna be thinking of uh Cedar Point. Cedar Rapid.

SPEAKER_02 44:17

I'm thinking of Cedar Point.

SPEAKER_01 44:18

That's in Sandusky.

SPEAKER_02 44:20

Yes. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 44:20

Guys, I I got my Cedars all mixed up.

SPEAKER_05 44:24

So Cedar Rapids. There are multiple tracks, and it's train tracks. There are multiple tracks at the turn I mentioned before. And only the track furthest from myself had a train on it. With my attention on the spillway, I hardly noticed at first a faint red colored light a distance north from my position. Red eyes. It was coming down the track on the other side of the train. I had thought it perhaps the tail lights of a car. Not being from that patrol route, I had no knowledge that there was, in fact, no road in that direction. Um, there isn't much in the world that scares me. Um, but simply put, I've seen a lot of stuff in my days. But nothing prepared me for that night. The lights disappeared, and and that was that, or so I had figured. About five minutes passed before I hear a snorting, almost sniffing sound coming from the other side of the tracks. When I turned, the first thing I saw were the eyes. They glowed a dull red. The thing was at least eight foot tall, pushing 450 pounds. Jeez. I judged this by the fact that I am 6'4 and weigh 280 pounds.

SPEAKER_01 45:41

Jeez, I wouldn't want to get in a fight with him.

SPEAKER_05 45:43

Well, and he mentions this. I turned my light, and to this day I wish I hadn't. It had pointed ears and a long muzzle, and it looked right, it looked me right in the face before it bolted into the timber. It was not a mask, and it was not a person in costume who would walk up on an armed man with a police radio in full uniform and risk getting shot. And can I just add a 6'4, 280-pound man? I remember it was surreal. So finally, I guess I know what's in the dark now. People can say or think whatever they want, but even with a chambered round and a full magazine and a Glock 40, I didn't feel like that was enough firepower. I unholstered and fell back towards the trail and and to the electric company storage yard. Putting the fence to my back, I made a hasty retreat to the lot with my cruiser. I don't think I holstered my pistol until I got out of the park. I never spoke of it then, and honestly don't know why I am now, but one thing is for certain. I knew I was there and it was watching my every move. I'll never go back. And I no longer work with the department since becoming a minister. Oh. But I still carry a Glock with a hollow point round tipped with silver. If and I really do leave my home at night.

SPEAKER_01 47:18

Dang. So I mean that I it sounds like the encounter uh sent him to Jesus a little bit. I think it was that was. That was a um what what what's the term? A come to Jesus moment. Come to Jesus moment. Yeah, which I don't blame him. I mean, that's but also like that's that's fascinating. Because I don't so when when it comes to werewolves and those things, the the silver is often brought up a lot. That's uh that was a very that has roots in medieval traditions. Right. Um, I think I forget the beast of I forget what the the the French city is going on or something like that. Yeah, that uh they they uh normal bullets didn't work, and then supposedly silver bullets did, depending on if you believe that the first person was able to actually shoot it, or and that could be another episode because there's a lot of history there too. It's just claimed he did, he didn't really show it. And well, they they had a wolf, they had a large wolf, but then he he brought it to King Louie, and King Louis, who was already getting embarrassed by he, I mean, he he got so embarrassed by the whole thing that he was like, um I'm gonna put a bounty on this wolf. And the first person to give a wolf that's about this about the size it would need to be is gonna get the bounty because everyone else, all the other kings were making fun of him. Uh, I don't know if that's true, but I do know he was very embarrassed, so embarrassed that the bounty that he set was the largest bounty of anything that ever there was there was no like there was no precedent for how large of a bounty that was. Somebody gave it to him, and he was like, Good job. And then the people of the town were like, Hey. And now you're safe. Yeah, yeah. Don't worry, no, there's there's no wolf attacks. You are safe. And the people are like, but no, but the the it's still a problem. And he's like, No, it's not. No, I don't want to hear it because I paid somebody. That's right. I I sp I put money to the problems, the problem should go away. That's right. Um, but I I going back to the original point though, I have not heard of silver being associated with dogmen.

SPEAKER_05 49:24

Yeah, which is interesting, but and and maybe this is what this guy needed. Maybe sure. I mean, I can't even imagine being out at night away from everybody, being confronted with this thing, and in your own mind, because you're a law enforcement person, you feel like you know you're you're the alpha. Yeah, and all of a sudden you're nope, you're not the alpha. Yep. And I think I think you might do stuff that maybe, I mean, obviously come to Jesus, but maybe make sure that you're covered in case this ever happens again.

SPEAKER_01 49:58

I think it's I mean, I you guys all know about my my thoughts on if there's a supernatural threat that's trying to kill you, like run. Even if it's corporeal, uh well, run. Try to protect your protect yourself in any way you can. Right. If it's corporeal, that could include firearms. You know, I I think I think, you know, like at the very least, if you can protect protect your home for both paranormal threats as well as any mundane threats, too. But I do though, I I want to circle back a little bit to my my friend's yes, uh uh Nick, as I called him in the his name's not actually Nick, uh, but in I his story, as I've been doing a lot of research, is a little bit unique. And it actually because a lot of the sightings that people had were of that nature, what like the police officer was talking about, where it was it was terrifying. Right. There was and and a lot of them as well, especially when you travel further down south when it comes to like Alabama and um the land between the lakes and those places, it's almost a get out of my territory feeling. It's there's I'm like a a deep, deep threat. But my friend didn't get that. And I don't know if it's because he was young at the time. And and unfortunately, you know, like I said in the story, I it was Kane. We're not we're not even gonna go into that one. We're not even gonna touch that one. Okay, it'd be Bigfoot anyway, not the dogman. But we're not gonna touch that one. Um, but it's um you made me you made me lose my train of thought. I'm trying to, I'm trying to go back to that. Uh oh, he didn't he didn't feel threatened. He felt protected by it. Yes. Oh, oh, I remember what I was I remember what I was trying to say. I it was five years ago, and unfortunately, I didn't write the story down right away. I should have, or I should have asked probing questions. He just shared the story with myself and a couple others as well. Um, you know, we were kind of sharing our own personal uh supernatural stories, though. There may or may not be some other stories that I share from that time as well. I had another friend who grew up in uh Utah who has um I I would need to ask his permission. I asked my my friend permission for the story, but um, but you know, the other friend who lived in Utah has a uh Schoonwalker Ranch story that I may or may not be able to share. We'll see if we end up talking about that one. But I I remember that he said the name of the tribe that his stepdad was in. Um and I know that it's it's a Michigan tribe. Okay. I just don't remember the name of it because, you know, I I like I said I didn't write it down. And even if I would have written it down, I probably wouldn't have been able to pronounce it because, you know, it's it's out of my normal vernacular. Um, but I do remember that there was a specific name of the entity, but that kind of made me I I started doing a lot of research. Uh try to try to start figuring out what that could have been. And unfortunately, at least with the limited amount of resources that I have, which is, you know, not very many, I will admit. Um, but I I did find uh one of the the big sources of of information that I used was from Linda Gottfried's book, um Monsters Among Us. And she actually talks about um let me find the notes. Um but she talks about somebody reached out to her, uh an Argentina uh a man from Argentina, I believe, who had been doing a lot of research into these kinds of things. And um, yeah, okay. So in her book, she talks about, yeah, like I said, a man who I I found my notes, uh, reached out to her telling about his own research. He says, I'm writing to you from South America. Here in Argentina, we have something similar to what you there called dogman or werewolf. They're not the same, but very similar. These creatures generally kill and eat domestic animals. I'm writing to you because I have some sketches of that. When I I have some sketches that when compared them, when I compare them to what you have reported, it seems to me very likely that both are the same kind of creature. And now then he starts to talk about things about werewolves, about uh, you know, his comprehensive studying of a lot of different cultures, including, you know, it's the South American uh Native Americans as well as the North American Native Americans, as well as uh a lot of you know European cultures and things, and he talked about the different kinds of things. We're not gonna go into werewolf stuff because that's a lot of shape shifting, and he talks about the the different reasons. Um I I will just put a little plug, a little not plug, but an idea here. Um the concept of the the werewolf bite is actually very modern. Um that's that is not something that is from I think a lot of medieval that I and I I could be wrong, but from all the research that I've done, I've not been able to find werewolf biting turning people into werewolves until like American pop culture picked it up.

SPEAKER_05 55:41

You mean Van Helsing is a lie?

SPEAKER_01 55:44

In that context, yes. Now curses that was a thing, and people could be cursed to shapeshift at a specific time. Um so the that concept is there, but not specifically through biting. Okay. Uh because you know that it that indicates there's a biological curse, whereas this is more of a uh a magical or uh a supernatural curse. So just wanted to put that in there, but we might do an episode on werewolves or shape-shifting things later on. I agree. But he then goes back to talking about specifically dogmen like creatures, and he and he says uh Indians of knowledge, and when he says Indians, he means you know Native Americans, um indigenous peoples of both South and South and North America of knowledge, know that what you call Bigfoot is not a real animal. They say he comes and goes at will. He's not from our physical world, that's why you can never catch the uh chiu though, I believe, or the uh yukamari, bear-like. Because indeed, what you see is not what he really is, but what he wants you to see. She later mentions uh in a different passage, she talks about uh the Ho Chunk specifically, uh, and as well as probably other tribes, but she she specifies that the Ho Chunk also have something like that that they honor, uh they they honor it uh uh by giving it offerings, like what my friend talked about. I tried to find a name for it, and and I was able to find a name in other uh tribes of of at least Sasquatch Bigfoot type of creature. But it's interesting though that what he says is that that's not what the Bigfoot looks like. That's not what it looks it will it will choose what form you see, which means one possibility of what people are seeing sometimes could be this idea, this this spirit, or or maybe this is what you know the what various different Native American tribes explain as the sightings that they have seen as well, where it's this creature because they call them bear-like, but I mean there's also in a lot of different cultures and folklore, there's a lot of cases of wolf clans who descend from a uh a wolf spirit. Okay, uh, and there is often a hybrid of those. Uh Ho Chunk has something similar, but it's a uh uh bear clan instead, the bear-like, but it's a water spirit and it's a protector. And and so I I don't know if that if if his stepdad was part of the whole Ho-chunk tribe or a different tribe, but there's a lot of ideas of there being protectors that are these things out there, but they're also obviously bad versions of that too. Uh, because a lot of the crypting encounters that we see with Dogman are not good.

SPEAKER_05 58:53

So let me uh talk about some of those.

SPEAKER_01 58:55

Yeah, the scary ones.

SPEAKER_05 58:57

So and and actually it's really interesting because 1982, when that dogman um song came out, the other thing that happened in 1982 was um uh there's uh down in kind of where we're Illinois and Kentucky and Tennessee all meet, there's an area called Land Between the Lakes. And it used to be called Land Between the Rivers until they dammed it up and they created lakes. I said bad word.

SPEAKER_01 59:22

You did with all the dam workers and so all the dam trees.

SPEAKER_05 59:28

So they basically relocated people who had lived for for generations in in this land, kind of a little a little messed up. And there was yeah, there's some hinky stuff going on when they did it, but unfortunately, um and and they promised them that they were gonna create this really great recreational area, you know. We all know how the government uh always honors their promises. Well, so the idea was this was opening 1982, was kind of the opening of this land between the lakes, and you know, they had the um the old commercials, you know, or hey, welcome to land between the lakes and all the cool music behind, and you can, you know, you can bring your RV here and you can do this, and you and so 1982 was when the grand opening was. So the story is that a family brought their RV into, and it was early, it was like April-ish.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:28

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:29

Uh so spring break. Sure. And but down there it was probably nice and warm. Nice, warm. Yeah. And so they brought their RV in, they parked in one of these brand new, you know, high, you know, modernized RV camping areas. And they were massacred. There was a husband, wife, a little boy, a little girl, and uh in 1982, April, and uh it's it's very interesting because brutally massacred. And um and the story is so I've listened to several reports. So one was a police officer who um federal agents came in. The police came in, they found the father's body in the camper.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:26

Oh, geez.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:27

The little boy's body was he was trying to get into the camper. He was running away. The wife's body was outside, and they thought that the little girl had escaped, but when the police, they had the search group in, she was up a tree 30 feet. Holy cow. And and she had been slightly dismembered. I mean, it was it was gruesome. And um the police were told not to talk about it. And one woman wrote about it. She was um it kind of it wasn't in the papers. People people didn't talk about it.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:05

That's crazy because it that is something that would absolutely have been sensationalized if it was allowed to be.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:12

It the federal government came in and took over. And um, so this woman that actually wrote about it was a waitress at like a truck stop where these troopers would always come in and get coffee and stuff, and they told her what happened. And so she was the one that because they were shaken up, but she could tell. But it was interesting. There was this fellow who um I think Dover is one of the cities there um in in the lake area, and this guy owned a bait shop, and he said, you know, he he rented uh boats, he sold bait, he did all this for the land between the lakes. And he said, he remembers in in April uh all of these people were coming back and turning their boats in. And he said, What's going on? He said, the government's closed down the park. And he said, I remember it was April of 82. And he said, I didn't, and they were given some reason. Oh, we're you know, we're doing this and this and this. Yeah, but it was um he says, now when you hear the story, it makes a lot of sense. So there's been investigators that have gone into the park and they closed down that campground and they bulldoze this brand new luxury campground, and nobody can go into it. And so um one of the fellows who kind of investigated it was another policeman from that area. He was a law enforcement person for years. Um I wrote down his name. I want to say Milton.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:58

She's gonna pull uh she's gonna pull Andrew. She's gonna vamp as she looks through her notes.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:04

What's interesting. Um it is very interesting though.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:09

The interesting thing about that is Martin Groves.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:11

Martin Groves. His name is Martin Groves, and he was out turkey hunting in the land between the lakes. I mean, this was actually later after this whole incident happened. So this is like 10, 15, 20 years later.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:26

90s, yes, maybe early 2000s.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:28

Yes, and Martin Groves was with he and he was probably getting close to retirement age, and he was with another law enforcement person, sheriff's deputy, and uh they were out in the woods, and and now most of the stuff is very primitive there. There's not a whole lot of um there are still remnants of houses, though.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:49

Yes, there are. And and it's I mean, honestly, it's so another another YouTube channel. If you want to, if you're interested in this kind of stuff. Oh shoot, I'm gonna try to plug them, but I forgot. You keep telling your story, okay, and you're gonna do it. I will plug it. Yeah, I'll look for it and I'll plug them.

SPEAKER_05 1:05:04

So anyway, Martin Groves is there with his buddy, and they're gonna go turkey hunting. And so they they have a campsite, and uh they separate. And so he heads one way and he he walks a couple miles, he's got his gun and stuff, and then he he's not having any luck. So he turns around and he f he notices somebody following him, and he thinks it's another hunter, like in a ghillie suit, and he keeps going, and this thing is just right on the periphery of his eyes, and it follows him all the way to the camp. And he and his friend then are both confronted by several dogmen who come up, they're they're camped not far from a cemetery. They come up over the ridge, and and they they are like Like what the officer said, these huge um giant creatures. And he said, the interesting thing is he said uh they mind talked. That's how he talked about it. And they basically said uh we are going to kill you, and there's nothing you can do about it. We we have control here. He could hear that in in their mind. They just stood there watching them, and these guys were they were trapped. And he said he was he was paralyzed with fear, and he said, The only thing he finally could do is pray. And once he prayed, he said it kind of broke him out of the whatever trance he was in. And he and his buddy were able to get into the car and and and go and and leave. And um it really affected his buddy. He didn't want to talk about he was mad. He felt like um Martin had kind of s put him in that situation, and they they um he ended up having a stroke because of the the experience, and he kind of blamed Martin. And Martin, when he's being interviewed, he's very emotional because he said, you know, we were able to set aside our differences before he died. Um, but he said it it's terrifying for him to go back, but he says he needs to. He needs to go back to that place to know that he can't, he doesn't want to live in fear for the rest of his life. But this was you listen to this man being interviewed, and and it was small town monsters, actually. Small town monsters did the land between the the lake, and they've done a lot of stuff on Dogmen, but um in and a lot of other uh cryptids that are in smaller rural areas, right? Right. They do a lot of really interesting documentaries that don't they're not like um and a ghost investigator where they try to find the ghosts. What they do is they interview the people that have had experiences, so it's very interesting documentaries. But Martin Groves was clearly emotional, yeah, and he brought them back to the area, and you could see he was he was shaken as he was in this area that had such a bad memory for him. But once again they they talk about every so often they'll close off the some of these incidences will happen, somebody will disappear, somebody will get killed killed, and um then the park shut down, and they say they've got these helicopters, and what they do is they say these helicopters they're they're in there hunting wild boar, and so they say they've got these, they bring hunters in, not from the area, from the government to hunt wild boar in these helicopters.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:01

Large, large wild boar that stand on two feet that uh that telepathically communicate.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:08

Exactly, but it's very, very interesting because people say, Well, you know, why aren't you bringing local hunters in? Because we know the area, so why the government doesn't talk to them, and so things are just shut down.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:21

Well, that yeah. Um Small Town Monsters documentary, right? Um, they also brought in this YouTube group as well. That's actually how I I heard about them. I found it. Okay, and actually they their last few episodes have been about dogman. Um uh the one that I have access to because I'm not I'm not a member. Uh I don't I I haven't subscribed as a member. I have subscribed to their channel, um, but their last one that wasn't for members was about a month ago. Um talking about dogman a little bit. Uh, but they're called Hellbent Hauler.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:59

Oh, okay. Yeah. And they actually just um on YouTube I was just watching their documentary a couple nights ago.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:07

Was it the same one that I was just talking about? The the one from a month ago?

SPEAKER_02 1:10:11

It could be. Uh it is called officially What is it called?

SPEAKER_01 1:10:15

Documentary, Attack of the Beast. Did the Forest Service wake a dogman in Bigfoot territory?

SPEAKER_05 1:10:20

No, that's not it. It was just about uh it was another dogman one. And they're a lot of dogman. Yeah, and they were both exploring the land between the lakes. And some of the lore, because that's all you have now, about this 1982 massacre gave interesting coordinate coordinates to the where the massacre happened. And they kind of explored that area and realized that it couldn't have happened there because of the location, because of what's left there. Oh, interesting. And so they think it was more on the south side of the land between the lakes.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:58

Is the side that is potentially still open to the public?

SPEAKER_05 1:11:02

It's open, but but it's all of that stuff has been knocked down.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:05

So it's not it's not campable technically.

SPEAKER_05 1:11:08

They also, in that same the the land between the lakes by small town monsters, they interviewed this man who is a teacher at the local high school. And he and his family were um out at the lakes fishing. They had a boat and they had pulled the boat in and they had a picnic. And um they they heard some rustling up on, so they were on the bank, and so there's like a little bit of a hill up there, and uh hear some rustling, and and they just think it's other people picnicking. And he's getting his family, they're on the the dock getting into the boat, and they look up and he said, There was a dog man, right? He said, I I I I could see him, and he had drawn not a very good, but he'd drawn a picture of what he had seen, and it was just staring at them.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:01

I remember the picture. I remember this happening. I remember this happening. Yeah. Now, remind me, and I don't remember, I don't know if you remember, or if he said, Did he happen to leave any of that food from the picnic there?

SPEAKER_05 1:12:11

I I don't I I think that they were on their way out anyway, and so they just quickly got in the boat, quick, quick, quick, quick, quick, and and went away. So you're thinking like an offering look bologna sandwich.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:25

Well, I mean, uh because I I I in my mind I've been trying to figure out why and and some of the some of the experiences in the the Midwest as opposed to the South are also scary, but they don't seem to be as violent. There's there's I've not seen any reports, and granted, I don't know if I would, I don't know if we would see any reports of these kinds of things, but I've never heard of any kind of massacre or those kinds of things. That's that seems like something that only happens in specifically that area, but maybe other areas as well.

SPEAKER_05 1:12:56

You know, it's interesting though. You start looking at missing 411 that show, and and and you we know that people go missing in national parks all the time.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:07

A lot of around a lot of cave systems, especially.

SPEAKER_05 1:13:10

Well, and so um, you know, is it is it because of creatures?

SPEAKER_01 1:13:15

Is it uh you know, there's I'm sure each, I mean, each one probably is uniquely different as well, you know. But um, I just I I guess I would I'm curious what would happen if people started leaving. And I I'm not saying I'm not recommending it because I don't know what the Park Service says about leaving food out for for various wildlife, but I mean they probably would say don't do that. They probably would say don't do that. Um, but I guess I don't know, because you know, we do there's there's mutilations though. I mean right. Well, I mean, but also if if some of these creatures are ticked off because the people that the the the tribes that would pay respect to them that knew about them and their culture and society were kicked out, um, I could see there being some I guess anger towards that. I'm now I'm not saying that is the case, right? Because, you know, we don't know what it is. And and it probably something that uh Linda Goffreed talks about a lot, just in general, and I think a lot of other people who talk about the dogman and research the dogmen, it could be so many different things, and one dogman sighting versus another dogman sighting could be two different creatures entirely.

SPEAKER_05 1:14:29

There was one uh website that I went to today that showed like six different pictures and and the illustrations of the different kinds of dogmen. So you could have this um the spirit, you know. I mean it's it's not really spirit, but it kind of is right that's yeah, yeah, I know what you're you could have that kind of thing where it's it's it's a protector of the land, it's a that thing. But I gotta say, the stuff that I'm hearing about, at least the the some of the encounters in the land between the lakes, these are these are predators, these are alpha predators who have um I mean, yeah, you could be an angry spirit because somebody didn't leave you hot dogs, but you don't kill a little boy and a little girl because of that.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:18

I should also clarify the offering that they left, they actually they they left the campsite and to go get they left a good like they went to go go get a good steak. And they left them uh because you know they're yeah, they're they're not gonna they're not gonna leave an offering of scraps. Tube steak. Yeah, they're not gonna, yeah. Here's our offering of Oscar Meyer wieners. There you go. Uh eat up, yum, yum, yum. Then I would be an angry guy. I would be angry too. At least get Nathan's hot dogs. Come on. Those are good hot dogs.

SPEAKER_05 1:15:49

Those are good too. Yeah. But um We're not sponsored yet. Um, so here's another story. And this is um, this was from Reddit that I got years ago. Okay, this story is by a fellow whose name is Neil Everett. He says, My family owns a small secluded cabin in Southwest Virginia. So we're going back to the Appalachian Mountains. Going back to Mountain Mama. Yep. This past summer we decided to spend about three weeks there. The cabin has electricity and running water, but no TVs or computers. That's rough. I know. I don't think I can handle that. The third day of our visit, the nearest neighbor, a cattle farmer who lives about two miles down the road, came up to our cabin and informed us that during the past two weeks, some of his cattle have been slaughtered and basically mutilated. There are foxes and wolves in those hills and occasionally a small black bear, but nothing that could do this much damage and over such a spread out time. Did you have a question?

SPEAKER_01 1:16:48

No, well, I mean, there's so many things about cattle mutilations as well that are wild. I was writing down a potential later on episode idea of we should do cattle mutilation things.

SPEAKER_05 1:17:00

Okay. He asked us if we had seen anything and told us to keep our eyes open. If we saw a rabid fox, wolf, bear, or any other animal that could have possibly done it. We told him we would, and he thanked us and left. The next five or six days passed uneventfully. But around a week after the farmer came to our house, we experienced something. That day, we had barbecued hot dogs and hamburgers. See, it does work. Hot dogs and hamburgers and had a small party with some close friends, but none of them stayed the night. About 11:30, my wife and I decided to go to bed. We slept peacefully until about 3:45 when there was a loud crash outside and our dog started barking furiously. I didn't have a rifle or any other type of weapon, so I decided to cautiously proceed downstairs and turn on the floodlights around the cabin. Unarmed? Unarmed. But he's in the cabin. Sure. But he is unarmed. The sw oh no, I lied. The switch to the lights was outside on the deck of the cabin. So I proceeded out there and turned them on. See, and this is when you say no, go back to bed and pull the blankets up because they protect you.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:09

Okay, that's not true either. I mean, I guess if if I had your friend hid under the blankets. Well, yeah, but he was also How old was he? Uh I I don't remember exactly. It was anywhere between the age of seven to twelve. Oh, okay. So he's pretty young still. Right. And but this feels more like um, I guess I don't know. I especially if you have to protect other people in the house as well. That's true. Than you know, staying and cowering in the bed versus going out and at least seeing what it was. Yeah. But having some kind of weapon, even if it's a fire poker or something, is always preferable in my opinion.

SPEAKER_05 1:18:50

So he proceeded out there and turned them on. What he saw next still baffles him. He says, At my truck, there was a creature standing upright, about seven feet tall, with huge claws on its hands. It had white hair that was almost gray, but I couldn't really see its eyes. It seemed to be searching around the bed of my truck and was paying no attention to the now frantic dog. When the lights came on, it did nothing but continue its search. But then it looked up at the deck. By now I was frozen in horror and it turned around and made eye contact with me. It made a horrible screeching sound, almost as if it was in terror from the sight of me. At first it seemed like it was going to charge at me and climb the steps onto the deck, but then in a terrorized rage, it made another screech and sprinted away. It ran upright and its claws almost went past its knees. The next day we left the cabin and reported what we saw to the local deputy. He dismissed it as nothing more than a bear and said we should not concern ourselves with backwoods business.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:08

As we all know, those bears with gray hair and large claws on their hands. On their hands that that make screechy sounds and that run uh upright. Upright. Yeah. They can stand. They can stand upright.

SPEAKER_05 1:20:24

But when they're running, they're down on all fours.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:26

They're on all fours. Yeah. Most creatures, we're the only creatures that I well, no, not the only, but because there's some primates that that walk like we do, but yeah, so so monkey primates are the only creatures really well and kangaroos, kind of. But they don't really run. They they jump.

SPEAKER_05 1:20:42

They just jump.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:43

They're yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:45

And those cool lizards that can run across the room.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:47

Oh, those are cool. Those go in in spurts, though, don't they? That's not and and it's specifically to yeah, the one to run across the water, the uh the Jesus lizards. I don't know if that's what they're called. That's what I'm terming them, because you know, Jesus could walk on water.

SPEAKER_05 1:21:04

Just in case lightning hits, I'm just gonna move my chair over just slightly.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:08

I'm not saying that the lizard's gonna perform miracles. It just happened to be able to perform that specific miracle. Okay. Anyway, um Your turn. Yeah, so we've been talking a lot about dogman experiences that happen in rural areas.

SPEAKER_05 1:21:24

But except for my policeman who was in Cedar Rapids, which was a very urban area. Right, but it was it It was by the train tracks.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:34

It was by the train tracks, it was still an area that was a little bit far away. But these these next two stories, which I also got these both from Monsters Among Us, okay by Linda Godfrey. By Linda Godfrey. Uh, we might even want to put a link to I think we should to that. Yeah. Uh I'm gonna I'll I'll I'll write that down later. But I'll remember. Okay. Actually, as I'm what you want to write down is yeah, yeah. I I've started keeping track of things. I've I'm trying to keep notes, I'm trying to be better. Uh, but she has two very interesting stories that I'm gonna do my best to paraphrase um to avoid any because I also want you guys to go, if you're interested in in this topic or anything that we're talking about, absolutely check that book out as well as any other books. Um but um that's this is her original one. My notes are disorganized and all over the place. Um but that's what happens when you are brand. Okay, stories and encounters. So this I don't want to start with this one. This one's cool, but I want to start with the one in New York. There's a there's Oh, there's one in New York. So the two that I'm gonna be sharing, one of them's from New York. Like New York City? New York City.

SPEAKER_05 1:22:59

I sound like a uh Salso New York City. New York City?

SPEAKER_01 1:23:04

Yep. Uh and the other one is in Orange. Uh well, so the the the story is called the VIP Werewolf of Orange. Um, so I'm I'm assuming Orange County. But I'm I want to find the one in New York first. This is the one that I remember talking to you about. Okay, here it is. Um, so uh a policeman named Dave. Uh he's from central uh central New York State, and he wrote in 2012 um telling Linda Godfrey that he had had two run-ins with mysterious canines during his life. Um now he talked about one, and so uh he talked about the the first experience that he he told her about was when he was an adult. Uh he was a police officer. Okay. And he there was somebody who had reported a something running past. Um he's he wrote, It was wintertime and near a wooded area that went up a steep hill. The owner came out of the house and told me a man had walked across his lawn and pointed toward the edge of the woods. I walked over to the area. There was about one and a half feet of snow. He got over there, and the only tracks he saw were not human tracks, they were big paw prints and only two paws. So it was tracks of only two paws, no front paws. The tracks went back to the woods and left. And so he he went back to the guy and he told him that it was just a dog. But the guy got upset because he's like, No, I saw a man walking through here. It wasn't a dog, and uh, but the the reason why he starts with this is because he this was obviously scary, right, but this was not the first time he'd experienced something in this realm. And so that's why he was that's why when he saw that, that's one of the things that kind of clicked in his brain. He's like, okay, yeah, no, this is probably a dogman-like thing because of what he saw when he was much younger. So when he was younger, um let's see. When he was about nine years old, some friend this is him this is quoting him. When I was about nine years old, some old friends of mine and I were walking up the road in a wooded area in central New York, and it was getting dark.

SPEAKER_05 1:25:36

Okay, so this isn't New York City, this is central New York State, and there's a lot of really cool wooded areas, but go right ahead.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:44

Okay. I saw I saw what I thought was a guy smoking a cigarette sitting on a log in the woods. He appeared to be wearing a dark long coat with a hood on it. He turned his head toward us, and he had a wolf face. I will never forget this. We were scared and ran back home. Our parents came back with us, uh yeah, came back with us with the flashlights, but it was gone. They didn't believe us. So something that sh that she mentions later on that was interesting is the cigarette. Yeah. She she thinks it could have been his eyes. The eyes.

unknown 1:26:28

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:29

But if if people don't think it's the eyes, and also if people think it's a rubber mask, then the cigarette portion of it then leads credibility to the fact that it wasn't a mask. Not only because, you know, it masks can't produce that glowing red eye, right? Especially not, you know, I mean the 2000 um the the call, the original story, the first one, the when he was an older guy, was from 2006. Um, oh, he says it was around 1970. That the other story happened around 1970. So any rubber mask is not gonna have the technology to have a glowing red light. Exactly. So if it was a cigarette, that'd be very stupid. Nobody would wear, would use a cigarette while wearing a rubber mask, it would be a fire hazard. It would. Stupid people might do it, but but then they're as they they move around, they're gonna catch their, they're either gonna melt the rubber mask or catch it on fire.

SPEAKER_05 1:27:31

Well, and especially if it's an elongated wolf-like rubber mask, how do you how do you hold on to that with your exactly? Exactly. So it's like smoking a turkey. It just your lips aren't strong enough for that kind of stuff.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:27:45

Um sorry. Old joke.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:48

I d I I don't get that, but you're right though, I assume. Um I I'm I'm young. I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_05 1:27:55

No, I no, when people talk about smoking a turkey, I know that they really mean Smoking it in a smoker, but I went straight to the WKRP turkey. Oh, yes. I swear I thought they could fly. God is my witness. That's right. I thought turkeys could fly. That was the greatest thing.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:17

Hilarious. Also, I'm very glad it's not a real thing. So this one though is um this so there's a num oh sh okay. Let me let me back up. Okay. This one is also this one is absolutely in an urban area.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:32

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:33

Um on a warm day in the spring of 1982, uh, a Chapman University student in her late 20s pulled up to an intersection in the community of El Medina in Orange, California, and sat waiting for the light to change. Um so this person Oh she she her car was didn't have air conditioning yet, and so she she had rolled down her windows. So this person is Tessa Dick. Okay. Um who was the uh I guess fifth ex-wife of the uh science fiction novelist uh novelist Philip K. Dick. Okay. I don't okay, Ash knows who that is. What what I don't what has he written?

SPEAKER_03 1:29:21

I didn't look up well he famously wrote do Android's Dream of Electric's Dream of Electric Sheep. Okay, Blade Runner was one of the things. Yeah, sci-fi. And he also did um the story that minority report.

unknown 1:29:36

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 1:29:37

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_03 1:29:38

So so yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:29:39

Okay, pretty famous.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:40

Yeah, yeah. So like I said, she was the the the fifth ex-wife of of this guy, and he had also passed away recently, uh that year on March 2nd. Um, but she she wrote to to Linda about what had happened. So here's what she said. Um a car pulled up to her. She describes it, a black limousine pulled up to my car, and the rear window went down. I saw a beautiful black German shepherd sitting there in the back seat of the limousine next to the open window. I could see the dog's head, but not his body. I was looking at the dog and smiling, and the dog was smiling back at me. I can absolutely see you doing this kind of thing where there's a dog next to you and you just let me can I can I get the pen back just so I can.

SPEAKER_05 1:30:34

Yes, yes, yes, yes. Oh, that's my pen. Here, you can't. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:37

Yeah, that kind of helps me stay at stay in my place. Um so he looked intelligent. He was very clean and well groomed. I thought that the owner of the limousine had a very beautiful dog. Somehow, without knowing how or why, I simply knew the dog was a male. But then, just before the light turned green, the dog casually put its arm on the window ledge and he had a hand. My jaw dropped, and the dog smirked. I thought that he was chuckling, pleased with himself that he had shocked me by showing me his hand. It looked like a human hand with fingernails, well manicured, and skin coal black like his a like his hair. The arm had short black hair like the dog on the dog on a dog's front leg, but his hand was hairless. And the arm had an elbow and shoulder, like a human elbow and shoulder. The light turned green and we both drove away. I never saw the that limousine or that dog again. I tried to find some kind of ape or monkey with a face like that, but no such animal exists. And of course, dogs don't have human hands. So what did I see? Now I think that the dog owned the limousine rather than being the pet of a human. Um so a couple of questions that Linda asked. First question was Did it have any kind of clothing or like a wristwatch or anything? But um, she didn't notice any anything like that.

SPEAKER_05 1:32:10

It couldn't have been somebody going to like Hollywood, like one of the studios, and it was just dressed up. Probably like Planet of the Apes kind of costume.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:19

It was a dog's head. Right, right. Yeah, so I don't think so. Lassie come home. Yeah, remake. There's no costume that looks real, that real, especially for how long she was that's true. Talking, like looking at it.

SPEAKER_05 1:32:32

And a dog's head is narrow. Yeah. I mean, you can't you can't put a mask on a a person's head and make it look like look smaller. Like, yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:42

There's no masks that make your face look smaller. Trust me, if there was, I'm sure that would be the next diet fad. Everyone would be like, This this mask is so slimming, but that doesn't work like that. Yeah. Um, and then another thing was she asked about how she felt, and she said that she didn't feel scared. Uh she said uh she was only shocked and curious. Uh, she was especially amazed that a creature would appear in the city and riding in a car, no less, rather than out in the wild of somewhere. And so it was in a limousine, which means also the the the next question, who's driving the limousine? That's right. And what's hat, like what's going on? This encounter raises so many questions.

SPEAKER_05 1:33:27

And it wasn't like it was a golden retriever driving the limousine.

SPEAKER_01 1:33:33

That would be that would absolutely be like the the the black haired German Shepherd.

SPEAKER_05 1:33:37

Don't they have golden retrievers doing the commercials now for is it Subaru who's got the golden retriever family driving the car down the road?

SPEAKER_01 1:33:46

I believe you. I believe you.

SPEAKER_05 1:33:49

I uh I don't know. I'm just saying. I I I don't know if they can drive limousines, maybe just Subarus.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:55

Did does Subaru even make a limousine?

SPEAKER_03 1:33:58

I I traditionally limousines are Lincolns.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:02

Oh, thank you.

SPEAKER_03 1:34:04

There you go. Oh, sorry, I was at Cadillac. You know what? I don't know everything.

SPEAKER_01 1:34:10

Oh no, you know what? That's okay.

SPEAKER_05 1:34:12

Our lives have just been ruined.

SPEAKER_01 1:34:14

No, I don't believe it. Even though he says it, I still think he knows everything. I think he's just very humble. Yeah. Um, but neither of those are subers. Um, so yeah, I there's just it raises so many questions. How did nobody else notice this as well? And it's not like somebody was trying to prank her specifically. There's no reason to have pranked her. I mean, right. Even though she was the fifth ex-wife of Philip K. Dick.

SPEAKER_05 1:34:41

I do have to say though, yeah, there years ago, years ago, I was with a group of ladies and we were doing How the Grinch Stole Christmas. Sure. And we were bringing it to um we were in Chicago and we were bringing it to like orphanages, and we would bring it to um children's hospitals, and we would put on How the Grinch Stole Christmas. And I was Cindy Lou, so I was dressed like a normal person. But the person driving the car was dressed like the Grinch, and uh the person sitting next to her was uh dressed like Max, um, like this. And she was she was a big strong um uh Norwegian, Swedish, Norwegian, Eastern European. She was like a swim person too. She was a big, big, strong woman. And she was she was a little bit of a dog. And uh I made sure we rolled I rolled the window down and pointed at them as as we drove down the streets of Chicago.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:42

So okay, so this oh I was gonna ask, where this so this was Chicago.

SPEAKER_05 1:35:46

So that means if any of you what what year was this? Oh, it was it's gotta be 35 years ago. So it was a long, long, long, long time ago.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:54

Okay, so 70s? No, it would have been 80s. Okay, so if you happen to have seen uh a dog man encounter in the streets of Chicago driving in being driven in a car, that could have been that exact thing. It could have been Max.

SPEAKER_05 1:36:11

It could have been Max, and then we're probably not dogman. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:36:13

But you know.

SPEAKER_05 1:36:14

Is Goofy a dog man?

SPEAKER_01 1:36:20

Oh no. Um, I mean, technically, technically he lives it, uh he's a high, but that that opens up such a large can of worms. There are so many dog human hybrids. And why is that? Do do do do I mean there are a lot of humanoid animals in general. Yeah. Which like I'm thinking Zootopia doesn't even have a dogman. Which is very surprising.

SPEAKER_05 1:36:49

It has a fox man though.

SPEAKER_01 1:36:50

It does, which doesn't technically a canine, I guess.

SPEAKER_05 1:36:53

Right. It's kind of like a dogman, but a foxman.

SPEAKER_01 1:36:55

Kind of, except from what I hear, foxes smell terrible. Oh. That's why that's one of the reasons why they can't be uh house trained. Oh because they will they'll mark their territory and it stank. Oh it's very, very bad. But we digress.

SPEAKER_05 1:37:12

No, us okay. So we have like lots more information.

SPEAKER_01 1:37:17

So we're we're there's more information that we haven't even gotten to yet. And other books and other things that I'm fascinated by this, and I would I I want to to do other things later on.

SPEAKER_05 1:37:29

Because I have a whole bunch of other stories from that same website that will link. Um and so we hope we've um maybe given you a taste of how intriguing this is, and it maybe you want to go look it up, or if you've had experiences, we would love to hear about them. And so we'll probably revisit this. We might not do a part two like right away, right? Because we have so many other things we want to talk about, but but yeah, welcome to the world of dogmen and thanks for being here with us tonight or this afternoon.

SPEAKER_01 1:38:04

And cryptids in general. I think that this is gonna be something that we'll uh just in general. I mean, obviously, we're gonna be exploring a lot of different cryptids and everything, but I I I hope that as you've listened to this, especially as you kept your mind open to all of these things, that it's not something that will be dismissed super duper easily. That it's something that when you hear people discussing dogmen or any other cryptid encounters that people have, that it will that you'll look at it with a bit more credibility, I guess.

SPEAKER_05 1:38:38

And and then asking yourself, you know, what what is this creature? You know, the fact that it it sounds like it has the ability to read your mind or put your put thoughts in your mind, it has the ability to kind of disappear into the background. It is either a protective kind of spirit or it is a um uh an angry um killer predator, you know. So this is it's very interesting to to try to figure out what this if if it's just one thing. Right, if it is or or or what it is.

SPEAKER_01 1:39:13

Is it related to Bigfoot? I mean, there's also another there's stories about it being with Bigfoot. Yeah, yeah. I've I've heard about one where there was a one Bigfoot and then like a a pack of smaller dog men like around him, which that is a terrifying thing to encounter anywhere.

SPEAKER_05 1:39:29

But you know, the dogman now now that you did that Bigfoot thing that you talked about how it's just a projection.

SPEAKER_01 1:39:35

It could be.

SPEAKER_05 1:39:35

I keep picturing the little guy from Shrek, the little prince from Shrek, and he's thinking really hard, and everyone sees a Bigfoot now.

SPEAKER_02 1:39:44

So wait, wait.

SPEAKER_05 1:39:47

The the Prince from what Prince from Shrek isn't that what was the the prince's name who's trying to Prince Charming? Yeah, who's trying to marry Fiona, and he was this little short guy, and he would wear that. Was Shrek, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:39:59

Well, because Prince Charming was always He was a little short guy.

SPEAKER_05 1:40:03

No in the first Shrek, he wanted to marry Fiona.

SPEAKER_01 1:40:07

Oh, Farquad! Farquad, you're talking about and that's what I'm picturing.

SPEAKER_05 1:40:12

I'm picturing like a farquar. Oh, sorry. Kind of. I thought he was a prince, but it anyway, he was little. And and I was just picturing that's who Bigfoot really is, because he's just projecting himself to be big.

SPEAKER_01 1:40:24

According to the lore in the musical, he is actually um Grumpy's son. How is it? And also, if you look at his haircut, yeah. What haircut, what kind of like that that black bob, what is that similar to in the world of Disney?

SPEAKER_05 1:40:45

Oh, I was gonna say the Beatles, but that's not the world of Disney.

SPEAKER_01 1:40:48

Um This is 100% a huge digression, but I just think this is fascinating. I have no idea who it's supposed to be very reminiscent of Snow White.

SPEAKER_05 1:40:58

You know, I thought Snow White, but I thought, no, of course it's not Snow White. So ooh.

SPEAKER_01 1:41:02

I mean, because the entire point the entire point of Shrek is to make fun of Disney. Okay. I mean, everything, even Farquad's name is a very unsubtle alliteration to it. It's supposed to sound like a like a very naughty word. Okay, well. I'm just saying, that's that was that was the intention. And so um, yeah, so of course he's gonna, you know. Now, that's not ever confirmed anywhere that but that's you know. So yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:41:36

Thank you for putting up with us.

SPEAKER_01 1:41:37

We we really There's a little extra bit of information there for you. A little fun fact for you.

SPEAKER_05 1:41:45

So um, thanks for listening to Voices from the Attic. We hope you have a great day. And please comment. That would be awesome.

SPEAKER_01 1:41:54

Comment, share your story with us at uh VFTAtic at gmail.com. VFTAtic for voices from theatic at gmail.com. And yeah, thank you for spending some time in the attic with us. See you next week.