Something Came Home With It: Haunted Objects and Cursed Artifacts

What makes an object haunted?

Is it a spirit attached to something it once owned? An emotional imprint left by tragedy? A ritual performed with intention? Or can an ordinary object become powerful simply because enough people believe its story?

In this episode, Terri and Andrew explore haunted objects and cursed artifacts ranging from a German Mauser seemingly accompanied by a shadowy soldier to the Delhi Purple Sapphire, the Crying Boy paintings, the mysterious Hexham Heads, allegedly haunted items sold online, and a disturbing ritual discovered deep in the Pacific Northwest woods.

Some objects appear to remember. Some seem to respond. And some refuse to stay gone.

But perhaps the most powerful thing attached to an object is not always a ghost. Sometimes, it is the story.

New episodes released regularly.

Join Paranormal Mystery Author Terri Reid and researcher Andrew T. Reid as they explore ghosts, cryptids, alien encounters, and other unexplained mysteries.

If you'd like to share your opinion, thoughts, or your own paranormal experience with us, please contact us at vftattic@gmail.com. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:00

At first, it was only a bump from inside the bedroom closet. Stored behind that door was an antique German Mauser, a rifle that had once seen service during the Second World War. Then the closet doorknob began to turn. The door slowly opened by itself, and in the darkness, someone or something began shuffling across the floor in heavy boots. One early morning, while their children slept in the next room, the rifle's owners believed they saw a figure standing beside the closet. They couldn't see a face, only a shadow, darker than the room around it, and the unmistakable outline of a military helmet. They sold the rifle the very next day. Tonight we're asking whether history can follow us home. Inside an object.

SPEAKER_05 1:05

Listen closely, the old walls still speak.

SPEAKER_03 1:09

Some things are hidden, not to be forgotten, but to be kept.

SPEAKER_05 1:13

The old house remembers what others forget.

SPEAKER_03 1:17

What is remembered is most truth.

SPEAKER_05 1:21

Listen closely, and you too may just hear voices from the attic.

SPEAKER_06 1:38

Hi, welcome to Voices from the Attic. You said tonight, which I think is cool. Yes. If you're listening to this at night, that was for you. If you're listening to this during the day, today we asked this question.

SPEAKER_03 1:54

I mean, that's fair, but also mom almost just broke the mystique. We're filming this at night, right?

SPEAKER_06 1:59

Right, yes.

SPEAKER_03 2:01

Uh-huh. Definitely at night, not in the broad daylight, where the the ghosts and ghoulies can't actually get us.

SPEAKER_06 2:08

That's right.

SPEAKER_03 2:08

And the haunts and the haints.

SPEAKER_06 2:10

Once again, we are not up in the attic because it's remarkably hot here in the Midwest.

SPEAKER_03 2:16

It is it is miserable. It doesn't matter if it's hot, or not hot. It doesn't matter if it's night or day. The uh the hot, stagnant air stays in there. I know because that's where my computer is.

unknown 2:26

That's right.

SPEAKER_03 2:27

So I do all my uh research and editing up there in the stagnantness, but you don't all need to see me be sweaty and gross. And I do become sweaty and gross.

SPEAKER_06 2:39

So now that we're gonna pass the TMI portion of our podcast.

SPEAKER_03 2:45

Welcome to the podcast. We share far too much information.

SPEAKER_06 2:48

That's right. Hey, I'm Terry Reed. I'm an author, um, a podcaster, a mom, a grandma. I've really been a grandma for the last couple weeks. We've had visitors, and um, we're really happy that you're here.

SPEAKER_03 3:01

Yep. And uh I am Andrew T. Reed. I am a researcher, uh writer, I guess I could say. I was about to say author. I'm like, no, I haven't written any books. Uh uh uh YouTuber, editor. You've done short stories, though. I guess technically I've done short stories, but uh A, well, no, I've done multiple short stories. One of them is published. I don't know if the others technically were published, but I won awards with those ones, so um, yeah. So I guess I can say I'm a I'm not an author. I'm an author. Um I am a uh a big old giant nerd, a son, and I share far too much information. And you're an uncle. I'm also an uncle. Um yeah, that that that too. I'm an uncle of how many? 22? 23 and three quarters. Yeah. I forget it sometimes because I've been an uncle since I was like five. Eric, if you're listening, that one's for you.

SPEAKER_06 3:55

So, hey, thank you. Uh, we have passed a hundred subscribers. You guys are awesome. Thank you so much. If you haven't subscribed yet, join the club. It's fine. The water's good. Is that what they say? Water's fine.

SPEAKER_03 4:08

The water's fine. Come on in. Yeah, there are definitely no monsters lurking under the waves as you subscribe. But the only way to find out if there truly are is if you click that button. And then maybe, probably not, but maybe a shadow monster might follow you around. But then you just have a new imaginary friend. And who doesn't want a new imaginary friend?

SPEAKER_06 4:28

You know, I was not um told about that kind of marketing style that he was just gonna do.

SPEAKER_03 4:34

So um I'll it's like the limit snicket, you know? It's it's a miserable experience if you click on that subscribe button. So you you should probably do it because it's so bad. Actually, you don't want to do it. For those podcast listeners, I was uh mouthing out the words, yes, you do.

SPEAKER_06 4:53

Yes, you do. So I I told Andrew, I saw something on Facebook that I had to share that has nothing to do with what we're gonna talk about. What?

SPEAKER_03 5:01

What on tangent on this show? Preposterous.

SPEAKER_06 5:05

I know. So in Japan, there's actually a job that people have that they sleep in haunted houses. I want the job. There's actually so what they do is if there's been uh a report of a haunted house or if somebody has died in in somebody goes there and spends the night to certify that the house is not haunted. So then the landlords can rent it to somebody else because people might not do it. So you're you're actually sleeping there hoping it's not haunted, but that's your job is to sleep in a house that is purported to be haunted to be able to certify whether or not it really is haunted.

SPEAKER_03 5:45

You know, honestly, that checks out because I know I know like us in Anglo-Saxons, our ideas of ghosts are vastly different to the ideas of spirits in various Asian countries, especially Japan, where you got like the yoke and other things like that, which you know, are there's so many variations and varieties or spirits that inhabit literally every single thing. Um, but also they can get real spooky and and like they're a lot more deadly than I feel like the ones over here.

SPEAKER_06 6:15

Well, and and active, like the tsunami ghosts that we talked about, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 6:18

That get into cabs. Well, and and Ash, um, our our uh resident uh producer, yeah, he uh he has a lot of experience with Japanese culture and because he went up into the conversation.

SPEAKER_00 6:31

Yeah, tell us about the Japanese. I just want to know, do you have to know Japanese to get this job? Because I don't think I I have a new career path ahead of me. I wanna I want to be one of these like rural Japanese towns just going and sleeping in all the houses to see if they're haunted or not. I love this.

SPEAKER_06 6:48

Isn't that isn't it a cool thing? By the way, that was Ash, our producer, our knower of all things, our keeper of us on track. That is like that's a hard job. Yeah, yeah, he's pretty much an impossible job.

SPEAKER_03 7:01

Yeah, and unfortunately, the only thing that we pay him with is us not calling him Jack for now. Um because he is the Jack of all trades. Right, right. The the master of uh quite a few, I would say quite a few. Burnt tobacco.

SPEAKER_06 7:15

I know that's that was a cool one. Burnt tobacco was a cool one.

SPEAKER_00 7:19

It's my Native American name.

SPEAKER_06 7:21

I love that. So today, I think we've done enough. Please subscribe. Yeah hey, welcome. So we just uh survived uh like three and a half, no, it wasn't, but like three and a half, four weeks of grandchildren, visitors, grandchildren, and it was fun, and and children.

SPEAKER_03 7:43

I shouldn't, I mean, they you yeah, they well, I mean, grandchildren for you, nieces and nephews for me.

SPEAKER_06 7:50

Um, you know, there was sisters and brothers in law.

SPEAKER_03 7:54

That's fair too. Um yeah.

SPEAKER_06 7:56

Yeah, so it was so much fun. A lot of late nights and early mornings, a lot of just really fun times.

SPEAKER_03 8:03

A lot of getting guilt tripped for you know, I I had uh I have a a full-time job that I do as well. And so I was only able to get a couple of days off, and so there was a lot of guilt tripping. Not a lot, a little bit of guilt tripping.

SPEAKER_06 8:16

Well, there was a Uncle Andrew, can't you stay home and play games with us? Just call off sick tomorrow.

SPEAKER_03 8:22

I can't I can't do that. I need I need this paycheck. You don't understand. I need to get paid. This is not about you, this is about me. I need to eat.

SPEAKER_06 8:31

It was fun, it was fun, and and um generally when we we film, we try to do two podcasts. We're telling you a little bit behind the scenes, and so the second podcast it's broken. It is for just a little bit. The second podcast we're gonna be doing today, which will be shown a week after this podcast, is just fun campfire stories.

SPEAKER_03 8:54

So a little sneak peek, a little uh preview for next week's episode.

SPEAKER_06 8:59

Because we did have a lot of fun talking about ghosts, and and so we're just gonna expand that. But today we want to talk about haunted stuff.

SPEAKER_03 9:11

Usually the term is is haunted objects, though we'll try to refrain from using that term too often because there's a whole other podcast that's actually titled Haunted Podcast. If you're into this Haunted Objects, that's right, haunted objects, and not haunted podcasts. That's actually a great podcast idea name. Yeah, the haunted podcast. So it's actually just like people talking, and then the the sound waves will randomly get hijacked, and something dark will be like, hey, how's it going? Um anyway, uh that that one's for free. Um, you can have that idea if you like. But no, um, there's uh a podcast called Haunted Objects. If you like our podcast, you might like theirs as well. I listened to it. I I haven't listened to it in a little bit, um, but I've seen I've listened to a few other episodes, and I really like it. I think that there's some interesting stuff. Um they actually um they're one of the groups of people that own like a I wouldn't call theirs a haunted museum necessarily, but they've got a collection of haunted objects. I feel like if anyone talks about haunted objects and they like they start to do that professionally, they'll just people will just give them haunted objects because it's like, hey, this object has ruined my life. Here you go. Um so there's a lot of people like that, but but they are one of them. Uh they also are the same group of people that did the uh the show uh Helier as well. Uh about uh Helier, the the uh Kentucky Goblins in Helier Kentucky.

SPEAKER_06 10:41

Yeah, and then you've got John Zapfus who actually had the show um Haunted Collector.

SPEAKER_01 10:49

Okay.

SPEAKER_06 10:49

I think that was the name of his show. And um he has John Zapfis's paranormal museum because when he was the haunted collector, people would say, Yep, this scared the heck out of me. Here, here you have it.

SPEAKER_03 11:01

I'm gonna gift it to you. I don't want it anymore. So he can have it.

SPEAKER_06 11:05

He actually has a museum, and the museum currently I I just checked yesterday, is closed because they're looking for a larger space. So, but but we I do have some information, some information on some of the collections there that we'll talk about later. But yeah, it's you know, I was thinking about haunted objects, but and and I in one of the podcasts we talked about Kathy Creesel's uh daughter bringing a rock home from Alton, Illinois, just right outside.

SPEAKER_03 11:35

The jail the jailhouse, right? Yeah, the little bit of concrete.

SPEAKER_06 11:38

It was it was um a prison and it was for soldiers during the Civil War, and people they did not treat them very well. No, and so they it there's big paranormal conferences. So I guess Alton, Illinois is supposed to be one of the most haunted places, and at least in Illinois, if not in the United States.

SPEAKER_03 11:56

Yeah, and so is a big claim considering that I mean Illinois has a big history, don't get me wrong, but I feel like there are other states at least America has all of it has a a rich history before it was colonized, but I feel like most ghosts that people experience tend to be post-colonization ghosts. Though there are Native American ghosts as well that we see, but I feel like at least when it comes to buildings that are haunted, yeah, you know, those are generally post-uh colonization.

SPEAKER_06 12:29

Yeah. Well, this Alton is is fairly well known for being haunted. Interesting. And there's paranormal conferences, and Kathy, who is uh the owner of Haunted Rockford, and uh we've talked about her before, she's awesome. Yeah. Um but she went down to speak, and and I do the same thing when we go on vacation. We pick up cool rocks and bring them back. And she did not, but she was packing things up, and her daughter thought, oh, let's get a cool rock. And uh she brought it home. She did Kathy didn't realize it, and she's hearing whistling in her home. Oh, and she doesn't know what the whistling is from, and and she's hearing it day after day.

SPEAKER_03 13:08

I remember the story. I remember the story.

SPEAKER_06 13:10

And uh she calls her daughter and says, Hey, when you were packing up in Alton, did you uh bring anything? She said, Oh, yeah, there's this really cool rock that I found just outside the prison, you know, at the wall, you know, the prison wall. And so she actually took the rock, she found it, and she explained to the rock that she wasn't gonna bring it back to Alton because this was probably a nicer place for whoever was attached to it to live. But she put it out in her backyard. And so she said the neighbors kept coming up to her and saying, Do you hear like strange whistling when you're outside? That's interesting.

SPEAKER_03 13:45

That's interesting.

SPEAKER_06 13:46

So, but so I was thinking about that, but I was also thinking about, and okay, so this is might gonna be this weird thing. When I go into like a rock, a mineral, um cave. No, shop. Shop. Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_03 14:02

Yeah, like one of those uh like kind of stores with uh crystals and also incense and all the exactly. Yeah, okay, okay.

SPEAKER_06 14:12

I hold on, I pick up the crystal and hold it to see if it generates any kind of uh current.

SPEAKER_03 14:22

See if it vibes.

SPEAKER_06 14:23

If it vibes for me. The vibe check. Because there uh because I can there can be um a tray of uh like Labradorite.

SPEAKER_02 14:34

Sure.

SPEAKER_06 14:34

And I can pick up one and it's not doing anything for me. Dud. Yeah, but I can pick up another and it's like I can.

SPEAKER_03 14:43

Can you pick that up? That that did it hurt a little bit too much. I got close, I got close. Sorry about that, everyone listening. That's one, but it's stroke uno. No more to the left. I don't know why I went kind of Russian with Spanish. Yeah, you know, those those Russian Spanish speakers.

SPEAKER_06 15:06

That's right. So anyway, I wonder if if that's similar to because you know, cur everything's electromagnetic or there's currents through uh and so and technically speaking, uh, you know, we all have uh uh a vibration.

SPEAKER_03 15:24

We all have some kind of resonance within us. And so it kind of makes sense that you know just based on the fact that our our the way that our our molecules vibrate, um, you know, it could I could see some some the way that some things vibrate might in uh interact with us in certain ways, potentially.

SPEAKER_06 15:45

And so some people, because I've gone to crystal shops with my daughters, and I'll feel one and I'll say, Oh, feel this. And some of my daughters get that same feeling, but some of them are like mom is a rock, and they don't get that feeling.

SPEAKER_03 15:58

Different people vibrate different frequencies, right?

SPEAKER_06 15:59

And I wonder if that has to do with also people who are sensitive. If our vibrations are slightly different, and that's why we pick up just like we talked about the the paranormal spectrum in your eye, you know, you could because the corners of your eyes have the lenses that hit that same spectrum, color spectrum that paranormal is in. I wonder if there's vibration spectrums too that some of us might vibrate it just in a slightly different what is it, hurts? I mean, I don't know what it would be, but sometimes it does.

SPEAKER_03 16:36

We got jokes. Sorry, that was really bad. That was a bad joke.

SPEAKER_06 16:42

Actually, it was I thought it was pretty good. Okay, well, thank you. Anyway, so that that but now we're gonna talk about getting onto the subject.

SPEAKER_03 16:50

Yeah, yeah. We're now actually gonna talk about the topic. That's right. So all of you who are looking to actually, you know, have us discuss the topic, this is where you turn to. Um you want to start? Yeah, so so this isn't a story. I've got a little bit of research because I I would like to as as we're talking about things, I I almost think it's sometimes, at least for me, sometimes it's a fun game as we talk about things to categorize them as we discuss them. And in fact, your example of the of the jailhouse rock that was unintentional, but now that is now that is what it's that's what it's gonna be called from now on. It's the jailhouse rock. Um that will be a good um, I think, way for us to kind of talk about some of these different things too. Um so first before we talk about the categories, I would like to redefine the definition of haunt because I think we all when we all think of haunt, there's a specific term that we think of. And I and and while that's not wrong, uh the term that we're I I would like to use for this is closer to to recur persistently in the consciousness of or remain with, or to visit frequently. Basically, the idea of like haunt, a haunted thing is something that an idea, a person, uh something inhabits. So it's not just like the spiritual kind of haunting. You know what I mean? So, like for instance, if I'm if I haunt a bar, right?

SPEAKER_06 18:22

It means you hang out.

SPEAKER_03 18:23

I hang out there, yeah. The thoughts of of someone haunt the room, you know? She could haunt your memory. Exactly. So that kind of it's persistently there, and I think objects have that same idea of something persisting with that object. And I think there are four kinds of hauntings, and then I I haven't written this down, but but I think this reminded me of that. There's kind of a a fifth, but it's like it's not really a haunting. That one is kind of its own category. Uh, and I'll talk about that one when we get there. But the the four haunting, uh haunted object categories, one is the one we think of the most, which is haunted by a spirit, also known as an entity-associated object. And and so, you know, usually this one is it uh it's a lot about agency. The the object itself has some form of agency, it can respond to people, it can display preferences, it can move with intention, it can react sometimes to disrespect and sometimes with disrespect. It can communicate and it can follow um and something follows the object when it changes locations. There are this one can get divided into two subcategories, um, which uh one is inhabited, so the the object is actually possessed, like something possesses the role.

SPEAKER_06 19:46

Like the porcelain doll that looks at you when you walk across the room.

SPEAKER_03 19:50

Exactly. That's one form of haunting. The other one is just it's attached, probably closer to the whistling.

SPEAKER_06 19:54

Right, the rock. The rock is probably not inside the rock, exactly. It's just hanging with the rock.

SPEAKER_03 19:59

Exactly. Okay, so that's that's category number one. Category number two, haunted by an event or person, otherwise known as an imprinted object.

SPEAKER_06 20:11

Okay, so an imprinted object. Well, like Gettysburg, like the basement of Gettysburg that we talked about that was the uh emergency room.

SPEAKER_03 20:21

And honestly, technically speaking, and this is something we'll get kind of dive into after we talk about all the categories, the rock could also be an imprinted object because so much has happened. There's a lot of negative, dark vibes that have seeped into literally the foundations of that uh of that building that that rock would would have come from. Okay, so these objects are believed to retain emotional, traumatic, or experiential residue without necessarily containing a conscious spirit. So just energy itself from the area, uh, or I guess residue or or um yeah, imprint. Um so this is kind of um so possible examples include a weapon associated with violence, clothing worn during a traumatic death, a chair used by someone over many years, uh, an object taken from a prison, battlefield, hospital, or crime scene.

SPEAKER_06 21:11

So, like the shroud of, am I gonna say this right? Turin?

unknown 21:15

Turin.

SPEAKER_06 21:15

Turin. The shroud of Turin, which was supposed to be the linen that was put over Christ. Yes. And and it had his image on it.

SPEAKER_03 21:23

That one could be that overlapped with the next one. Okay. Um, but I won't get into that one yet because I I will also just want to go back. So this first, this um um imprinted object, uh, this object haunted by an event or person, it may produce recurring sensations, the same apparation or sound repeatedly, emotional changes, dreams or mental images, or just a general oppressive atmosphere. Uh, and other things as well. Like they're just the it's associated with not a person, not uh a physical thing happening, but rather it's more of an Emotional, mental I state surrounding the these objects.

SPEAKER_06 22:05

So it's radiating um some kind of emotions. Radiating some at which which I mean it could be depressive, it could be um dark, oppressive, but it also could be joyful.

SPEAKER_03 22:23

Exactly. None none of these things that are are are considered haunted objects, none of these are necessarily bad. They they can be both bad and good. Just usually we think about the bad. I think I mentioned this to you uh yesterday. We think about them bad because usually if there's an object that brings us good fortune, good news, good whatever, often that's no longer a haunted object. It is a uh it's a good look charm. Right. Or you know, it's something so we don't look at it the same way, even though technically speaking, it can ha have the same properties.

SPEAKER_06 22:57

So for example, positive. If you're going through something and you find a box that has a whole bunch of love letters from one person that that ended up being a happy memory. Yes and no.

SPEAKER_03 23:12

Okay. I think I think with because that one goes to the the last category, which is a lot broader. And I'll yeah, I know, I know. Well, and it can it can well it's okay. It can have there's a lot of overlap here too. Again, I so I guess I I wasn't gonna say this for the end, but I think it's important to note it here. Um, I don't think that a object can only be haunted by one thing exclusively. I think it can be haunted by a spirit and as well as be haunted by um an event or or a person. I I think there are there is a lot of overlap. I think that it can be haunted by one thing, but I think it can eventually get you know the the the whole the whole crew can get involved, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_06 23:54

It does, it does. So again, I'm thinking of the positive.

SPEAKER_03 23:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 23:58

I'm thinking about a quilt that's been passed down that was made by your great-great-grandmother.

SPEAKER_03 24:02

I think that would be because there's a lot of there's a positive energy that, you know, from that making, from the creating of it, and then from all the memories that it it had, you know, supposedly holds, right, that would have created a positive heirlooms, I think would be a great example of the floor.

SPEAKER_06 24:17

And and so you you you know, obviously you don't wake up and see your great-great-grandmother waltzing with the hopefully in in your house. But when you touch it, yeah, you feel warmth, you feel that family connection.

SPEAKER_03 24:35

It could also inspire dreams, positive dreams. It could also, I mean, it could still give you sensory things as well. That coat, uh, that that and it could it could just be because of memory, but it could also be because it actually, you know, physically does this. If your grandma made cookies a lot, it could make you smell cookies, you know, that kind of thing. This is all hypothetical. I don't think there's a a quilt I can think of that has that that has this story associated with it. But also, if you have a quilt that makes you smell cookies, well let us know.

SPEAKER_06 25:06

So the question is are do the warm memories we have come from our mind, or is it the thing that we're touching that emit those and and that's what we're feeling, and we think it comes from our mind, but it's really the object that's true pushing those things together.

SPEAKER_03 25:25

And that same exact question can be asked in the dark side too.

SPEAKER_06 25:27

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 25:28

You know, when when it comes to these, because that's probably what people most people think of when you know haunted objects, uh that these kind of dark negative things. But when we're talking about it, I think it's important to remember that these that with this next category, again, this is both positive and negative. Even though we're using the term haunt, which usually is associated with negative, right? That doesn't mean that we're only talking about negative experiences because this next one is haunted or empowered by an act of will, aka intentionally charged objects. So these category this category would include things like cursed or hexed objects, spirit vessels, effigies and and poppets, uh, ritual bundles, talismans and amulets, witch bottles, a lot of these kinds of like ceremonial relic things, protective objects concealed inside buildings. Um yeah, objects used to bind, silence, attract, repel, or contain something. Uh so a lot of yeah, a lot of ritual objects.

SPEAKER_06 26:30

Okay, so if if you're writing a love letter to the person you love, obviously, and you kiss the letter, have you just done that before you send it?

SPEAKER_03 26:41

I g I guess it depends on your um intent, but I would say to an extent, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 26:45

Because you're you're pushing that, your your love through that also.

SPEAKER_03 26:51

I mean, I've I've seen people like spray their perfume or their cologne on a letter too. That kind of, you know, obviously that's that's a physical, tangible way of doing it, but the you know, the uh same idea is there. You are intentionally imbuing this object with a specific emotion. Emotion. A lot of religious, I would think that the shroud that you were talking about of turn probably falls within this category as well. Um, especially if it truly was the the shroud that covered you know Christ's. I guess maybe it wasn't intentionally imbued, but it was imbued in a religious or or I guess more political ceremony. Well, I and and it was really heavily associated with a religious figure, which Christ, obviously. Okay. I think crosses as well within a lot of religions. Uh I would even say some buildings too probably fall within the category.

SPEAKER_06 27:44

And really, when you think about um the sacrament or the Eucharist or whatever your religion calls it, when you bless the bread and the water or the wine, it kind of becomes that. It becomes that too, because it is you are putting something else on something. You know, you're taking bread or wafers and you're blessing it. So putting a different intent on yeah.

SPEAKER_03 28:17

Yeah, so yeah, I but that's a obviously a positive. It's all positive, yeah, positive. But the you know, obviously, and I guess it depends on on your thoughts of things as well, because I do know certain people who practice witchcraft who would say that you know the things they do with witchcraft would also be considered positive. Right. Depends on what kind of magic you're practicing, black magic or white magic, you know, whatever. Uh assuming there is a distinction within your belief of of that. But um I I just I put this note, we've kind of already talked about it, but I I put it in a very well-worded way. With these objects, it's important to note that they acquire significance through the interaction of the interaction of material placement, bodily action, ritual, and social meaning. Not simply because a mysterious substance is believed to reside inside them. So it's not like it's not the object itself having something, it's how we interact with that object and what we do within the various rituals that gives it its power. So like a voodoo doll. Yes. Okay. Exactly, exactly right. A voodoo doll falls very strongly within this.

SPEAKER_06 29:21

Because a voodoo doll, if somebody created a voodoo doll and stuck pins in it, had curly hair, glasses, and they stuck pins in it, but then they put it in a drawer, right? It it wouldn't do anything.

SPEAKER_03 29:32

It would and also it hasn't been uh fully connected with you, even though that it has that that curly hair. Generally speaking, when it comes to magic, there needs to be some kind of connection there as well. That like a piece of my hair or right, right, or or at the very least, some kind of intention. Right. I I I don't know magic enough. Most of this that I'm getting, I I are either from like secondhand knowledge from things that I've listened to or or or read or from books. Uh so I mean, you know, not like witchcraft books, like fiction books, like the Dresden Files and those kinds of things. And I don't know how uh accurate those are when it comes to actual, you know, practicing Wiccans or witchcraft or whatever. So I don't know. There's a lot of these I don't know voodoo enough. Um that voodoo you do so. And I do know that Wicca and Voodoo are also two very distinct. And then there's hoodoo, I mean there's voodoo. Well, uh voodoo and voodoo are interesting because they they all all come from different, like um um island. Yeah, island, but but often from the slaves that were brought into the islands from Africa, and so they all kind of hoodoo and voodoo are all uh kind of conglomerations of various other different religions that have been put together to and so you know exactly, it's a composite religion, composite witchcraft. Um but uh the distinction, so the distinction of these not um being mysterious substance being residing in them is important because a ritual object can be harmful but protective, it can be neutral, it can be sacred, it can be blessed, it can be biting, it can be communicative.

SPEAKER_06 31:10

Um so anyway, now okay, story, personal story I just thought of.

SPEAKER_03 31:16

Okay, so um and then and then category four after the story.

SPEAKER_06 31:20

Oh, I'm sorry, okay, yes. Because I think it'll it'll illustrate. Yeah, yes, okay, okay. I like it, I like it. So one of my daughters, when she was in like third, second, third grade, uh, they would have spelling tests every week. And her anxiety would she would never she would study and study and study and study, and she'd sit down in front of the test and the words would go away. She could not remember anything, she would fail, and she was a good student, and so she was telling me about it, and I said, Oh, I have something for you. So we went up to my office, and I had a rock in my drawer. It's a really nice smooth rock. And I said, This is my memory rock. I use it all the time. Uh all you have to do is is rub it in your hand, and um anything you've studied, it'll just come right back up. Even if you're afraid, all you have to do is rub this rock, and everything will come back up. And I'm so sorry I didn't give it to you before, but here, this is yours now. And so she took that rock and brought it to school, kept it in her pocket, rubbed it during a spelling test, and it was magic. Everything that she had studied that's cool, um, came back, and she was getting 100%. And one day she came home and she said, Um, Mom, I lost the rock. And and I'm sure it was just something I picked up in the yard. But she said, or one of those river stones that you can buy in the package. Yeah. And she said, but I think it rubbed off on my my hands enough because I can still remember all of the spelling words. And so it is that that mental intent. If you believe what somebody is going to tell you, your mind will will also believe. If you have enough belief, it opens things up in your in yourself that you didn't realize.

SPEAKER_03 33:15

So it's very interesting because that also falls very neatly into the next category.

SPEAKER_06 33:19

I also want to I love how we're doing this. I know.

SPEAKER_03 33:21

I also want to point out that it's very Alan Wake of you. I don't know if you you don't know that that um it's it's a video game. It's actually it's funny because it's it's a video game from something else that I might it touches on a lot of the deck. The there's there's video game franchise uh or video game studio remedy studios that have a shared universe and their games have a lot to do with what and so I might talk about it later, but um yeah, I don't want to I don't want to get too far off, but basically but but I'll keep it very brief, I'll as briefly can. Uh Alan Wake, great, great story. Uh it's about an author who gets tied up in a bunch of paranormal stuff. Um, but in the beginning of the of like way before the events of this happen, um, he was scared of the dark. His mom um came to him with basic it was like a light switch clicker, but it was like uh it was it you know, didn't wasn't attached to anything. And she said, if you switch this clicker on, then the dark can't hurt you, and helped him fall asleep. And later on in the game, because of the events that happened, because the fact that he's uh a writer with certain abilities that kind of manipulate the universe around him a little bit, it's real it's such an interesting, mind-bending game. I love it. Um uh he's able to literally like help defeat the darkness with this clicker and actually like sheds a bunch of light. It's awesome, but because of because of that intention that his mom had imbued early on, it became uh an accidental core belief of him, right? Which actually in this universe imbued it with that power that he believed it to have. And that kind of same thing happens in a lot of other games in that series. Again, we might come back to it later because I'm that's my obsession right now. I'm very excited for the new game that they're gonna be coming out with. But but going back to it, you said so so this next one is haunted by this is kind of a twofer. It's they're both about stories. Okay, haunted by a broken rule or developing story, aka relationally activated objects. So this one, again, it's kind of broad, so it's got two subcategories, the broken rule and the developing story. So the broken rule, um so oh, okay, so let me go back. So the power doesn't necessarily reside permanently inside the item itself, it emerges from the relationship among the object or the rightful place or owner, uh, the person who possesses it, uh, a moral or ritual boundary, uh, or the story surrounding it.

SPEAKER_06 36:01

So if I break a mirror and and the the it could give you bad luck if you believe it. Right, seven years bad luck. So there's the story, the fable, the intent. And if I and it doesn't stay with the mirror, it goes to me if I believe that that's the truth.

SPEAKER_03 36:20

Yes, or or the other idea is if enough people believe something, it can imbue that object. For instance, even if you don't believe it, right, but everyone else in the house does, it could still affect you. Oh, interesting. So common activation conditions include stealing an object, removing it from sacred land, it's kind of the same thing, disturbing a grave, purchasing something that should not be sold, disrespecting whatever it is, breaking one of the supposed rules of said object, okay, uh, or learning that it is cursed, and subsequently interpreting events through that knowledge. So I picked up the AI object, my life has been odd, but whatever. And then I learn afterwards, oh hey, that was a cursed object. And then suddenly everything after that is like, oh, that explains why my life has been so crisp. I don't know why I just went southern. That explains why my life has been so cruddy.

SPEAKER_06 37:20

Wow. So a reverse cause and effect.

SPEAKER_03 37:22

Yes, yes, exactly. Um, so like I said, it's got two subcat subcategories because it's so broad. So the first one is the taboo or transaggression objects. Their effects supposedly arise because someone violated a boundary. Theft, desecration, displacement, improper ownership, failure to obtain permission. That one's gonna come into uh Robert the doll. That's gonna be fun. That's gonna be a fun one. Or narratively charged objects, which that one's probably closer to the one that you uh with the rock. Right. That one's a positive one. Most of these are negative ideas. Okay, like their identity and behavior developed through stories, publicity, expectation, and repeated count encounters. Um, for instance, um, well, actually, no, I don't want to do that because it's gonna give away certain too many things from a later on story. Um, I'm not gonna do that one, but I'm for instance, we'll tell you later. Yeah, for instance, to be continued. Um, but I wanna I want to clarify though, again, this doesn't mean the person who experienced something from this haunted object didn't experience it or that they even just imagined it. Um but but what I'm uh but what I am saying though, once I get to the right page, uh to me this means more that there are uh to me it means to me that there are enough people that believe a thing will act a certain way that the beliefs imprint on the object that it actually does do the thing that people believe it will do.

SPEAKER_06 38:50

So there's this whole series, like uh there's a documentary called The Secret, and there's a book called The Secret, and it's about um intent. It's about mindful intent and focusing and um visualizing.

SPEAKER_03 39:10

Yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 39:11

And it seems like that's a lot of what this is.

SPEAKER_03 39:14

I I believe so, yes. I believe, and and again, this is all you know, I'm I'm saying all these things as if I'm uh as if I'm the expert on haunted objects.

SPEAKER_06 39:24

You do sound very good.

SPEAKER_03 39:25

Thank you. I appreciate that. But I mean, this is mostly just from the stories that I've I've been reading. That's what it seems like most of these kind of break into, these ideas of because I do think when it comes to an object, an object in and of itself should be a stagnant thing. And so I think a lot of the reason why objects are haunted, even though they've been produced, whether massly or or you know, personally been produced, I think a lot of what happens to them afterwards, that's on us. And so any reason for an object to be haunted is because of the way that we as people have interacted with that object. And so, yes, I think visualization does kind of parallel with because visit visit visualization is similar but with ourselves. We're imagining, we're putting, we're we're imbuing ourselves with that same power that we would imbue an object with.

SPEAKER_06 40:18

But some of these objects uh and and I guess I I'm you're probably saying the same thing, but some of the stories I have are children who are reacting with, for example, a doll. Yeah. And they're saying to their parents, the doll's talking to me, you know, the doll's communicating with me. That child did not put that, you know, that that child did probably not. Yeah, probably not. It came to that child with whatever is in it.

SPEAKER_03 40:47

But then the question is, what did that? Because if it's not the child, what imbued, because that that could be haunted by a spirit. I will say, even though I said haunted by a spirit, that's not just a spirit. Right. Entity, it could be something darker than a spirit as well. Exactly. But it's it's haunted by uh because that that doll itself is an inanimate object, it is haunted by a separate force, whether it's a human force through an act of will or an act of actual, you know, possession after you've died or whatever, or it's something else with agency as well. Interesting. So yeah. Those are the categories.

SPEAKER_06 41:27

Okay, wow, I learned a lot. So thanks.

SPEAKER_01 41:29

So thank you.

SPEAKER_06 41:31

Um there was a story from Jim, um, Jim Harold's campfire.

SPEAKER_01 41:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 41:38

And this caller called in and she said uh it was a a fellow, he talked about his mom, and he said his mother had purchased a painting of a woman with blonde hair from a house sale. She hung it up on the staircase landing, but the picture kept coming off the wall. Okay. That's a first sign.

SPEAKER_03 41:56

Yeah, that's that's not good. An object moving by itself is never a good sign.

SPEAKER_06 41:59

That's right. And other strange things began happening, like the sound of a woman sobbing throughout their home. Finally, they were awoken in the middle of the night to I objects being thrown across the house and screaming coming from a room downstairs. They rushed out of the house to their car, and when they looked back through the glass patio windows, they could see the woman from the painting in the middle of their living room.

SPEAKER_03 42:25

Nope. Nope. Nope. You burn that, you burn that painting, I think, at that point. That's does that release her? I don't care.

SPEAKER_06 42:35

You call up what it what is his name, John Zaphas, and you say, hey John, got something for your museum.

SPEAKER_03 42:41

You wanna you wanna uh haunted what's the what's that book? It's a it's a classic um about the guy who he paints a painting and all of his um The portrait of the portrait of I it's gonna be right there.

SPEAKER_06 43:00

It's um yeah, he the portrait keeps getting old and he stays young.

SPEAKER_03 43:07

Um it's not a portrait Dorian Gray.

SPEAKER_06 43:13

Yes, portrait of Dorian Gray.

SPEAKER_03 43:14

A novel by Oscar Wilde. Yep, the portrait of Dorian Gray. So that's very I mean it's not the same thing, but it does feel very Dorian Gray.

SPEAKER_06 43:21

I have to say, I'm congratulating my old mind. Oh fantastic job.

SPEAKER_03 43:24

Fantastic job. I will say, Google, it didn't fail me necessarily because it was there, but it was it was pretty far down the list. The first things that popped up when I typed in uh a portrait of.

SPEAKER_06 43:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 43:35

Um now it's all Dorian Gray.

SPEAKER_06 43:38

We heard your mom.

SPEAKER_03 43:40

Yeah. Well, no, uh, one of them was uh yeah, the 2019 film Portrait of a Lady on Fire. I don't think that's the correct one. Right, obviously, because it's Dorian Gray.

SPEAKER_06 43:48

But yeah, so Dorian Gray, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 43:50

Very Dorian Gray coated, very, very much.

SPEAKER_06 43:53

So then, but it's not only paintings.

SPEAKER_03 43:56

Uh oh.

SPEAKER_06 43:56

A mass produced image of a crying boy was supposed to Supposedly found untouched by fire among the ashes in several homes in England in the 1980s. So, I mean, to me, the 1980s is contemporary to some other people who weren't born yet. It's not. Oh man, that's a long time ago.

SPEAKER_03 44:19

That's pretty uh that's pretty old.

SPEAKER_06 44:21

So let me re-emphasize everything else in the homes were was burned down, but not the pictures of the crying boy. So um sorry. According to, and I got this information from Atlas Obscura, okay. The Sun newspaper, which had printed that picture, uh, estimated there was 30,000 copies of the image published. They offered to destroy, buy back, and destroy all of the paintings. Wow. They said that should see the back of any curse they may have.

SPEAKER_03 44:57

I mean, good on the company for offering that. But also, um, did they ever do like an employee check to see if anyone happened to accidentally be imbuing their portraits with like some kind of I'm just curious about why? Why, like I guess first question did they ever figure out what caused the fires? What was it a bunch of just random accidents, but explainable accidents?

SPEAKER_06 45:19

It's uh it no, it just says that uh uh and I could do more research, but I haven't. It's among the ashes in several homes in England in the 1980s. So there were several house fires, and the only thing left untouched by fire, unscorched, untouched, were these pictures.

SPEAKER_00 45:38

Horrifying.

SPEAKER_06 45:39

Ash, did you have something to add to this?

SPEAKER_00 45:43

Uh no, I'm familiar with the story though. This is really fascinating.

SPEAKER_06 45:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 45:48

I just what what what caused it? Like what I that's evil. That's excellent. Fair enough. That's that's that's the only explanation we need.

SPEAKER_06 45:58

Okay, so one one more. Evil, yeah. Absolutely, absolutely. The great bed of ware. W-A-R-E. The great bed of where. The W-A-A-R-E. Ware.

SPEAKER_03 46:10

Where no, that's not even Werewolf. No, that's like a warehouse.

SPEAKER_06 46:14

Yes. Yes. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 46:16

What nothing that's funny.

SPEAKER_00 46:18

Sorry, I like the idea of a warehouse, a full moon. The house is turning into a whatever house. Like if it's a nice house, it turns into a less nice house. That's right. Like with a full moon.

SPEAKER_03 46:29

It becomes Monster House. Um which that is a I love that movie. That is a terrifying movie. It should not be an animated cartoon, like an animated children's film, but I love it anyway.

SPEAKER_06 46:40

Going back.

SPEAKER_03 46:41

Yeah. I blame you for this one, Ash.

SPEAKER_06 46:44

That was that's true. Okay. The Great Bed of Ware was supposedly made for King Edward IV in the 15th century. Although painstakingly carved for a royal occupant, the bed spent centuries being passed between the ends of ware. Over the years, commoners who slept in the bed covered it in graffiti and damaged the fine carvings, leaving the frame look looking battered and worn. And, according to legend, carpenter Jonas Fosbrook, who made the bed for the king, was so enraged by the disrespectful treatment of his work that his ghost attacks any commoner who dares to sleep in it.

SPEAKER_03 47:33

Ah, so we got ourselves uh a classist ghost, I see. That's right. Well, you don't have royal blood. It is Europe. Yeah, that's fair. That's fair.

SPEAKER_06 47:43

So um now the bed is currently safely on display in the VNA in London. So I'm guessing that that's uh VNA, VNA. Have you seen that?

SPEAKER_03 47:56

I'm gonna look it up. I'm gonna look up what the VNA stands for, what the VA is.

SPEAKER_06 48:00

While you do that, I'll just give a quick overview of the Hope Diamond. Okay. It's one of the most famous diamonds in the world and probably one of the most cursed. And again, it is said to have originated in the kohler mine in India.

SPEAKER_03 48:16

See, India's got a lot of really cool cursed gems. India, yeah, India's all about the there's there's some fascinating and you've got you've got another screen. I've got I've got another uh cursed gem from India. So of course I did I did learn. Okay, what is V and A? So I typed in V N A, but it's actually V A and which is Victoria and Albert Museum.

SPEAKER_06 48:40

Oh, well, of course it is. Okay, so don't sleep there.

SPEAKER_03 48:44

But what if I want to?

SPEAKER_06 48:46

Well then somebody well.

SPEAKER_03 48:47

What if I want to stick it to the man?

SPEAKER_06 48:50

If you look at our ancestry, we do have royal blood. So you probably royal blood from multiple lines, right? Yeah, from multiple lines. Uh huh. Yeah. Which side of the blanket we were on, I don't want to talk about, but royal blood.

SPEAKER_00 49:03

Sounds like a field trip to me.

SPEAKER_06 49:05

I know, right?

SPEAKER_01 49:06

England, Scotland, Ireland, I am related to Robert the Bruce, so I should be able to sleep. He technically was he royalty? I mean, would he be royalty that would be allowed to sleep in something like that? Well, he's dead, so probably fair enough.

SPEAKER_03 49:20

Okay, but would he have been able to? Because that's because I mean he was kind of a rebel, so I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 49:27

Right, but it wasn't I think he was he was Scottish. Yeah, he was Scottish. I think he was still technically royalty, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 49:33

He was part of the royalty, yeah, just for different country. Right. Fair, fair, fair, fair. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 49:39

Okay. Same country, because England and Scotland, you know, that was the whole point. They were trying to, but not then. Yeah. But they were fighting for freedom. No, I think I think that's the whole freedom. Yeah, they were fighting for freedom.

SPEAKER_06 49:50

I think they were still being they were Scotland was its own, and England owned the land, and then England kind of took over and classic England. Yeah. So back to the hope, Diamond. According to legend, the stone is cursed and brings misfortune to anyone who owns it. The curse is said to have come about when the original diamond was stolen from the eye of a statue. Shades of Jumanji.

SPEAKER_03 50:22

That's interesting. Mine also has to do with does it say which uh which statue in which from which temple?

SPEAKER_06 50:29

Uh let me see. It says the thief met a grisly end, kickstarting a pattern of misfortune for all who possess the diamond. Over the years, owners of the Hope Diamond have befallen fates, including death by murder, execution, and suicide, bankruptcy and imprisonment. Thankfully, the curse seems to have lifted when the diamond was donated to the Smithsonian in 1958. Interesting.

SPEAKER_00 50:59

Sounds very similar to the is the Hope Diamond on display? Is it something you can go see? I think so. Probably.

SPEAKER_06 51:08

Or it's in you know one of their back rooms in the Smithsonian, but it's in the Smithsonian, it's just.

SPEAKER_03 51:19

I'm doing what I can for the YouTube algorithm to boost us to as many people as possible.

SPEAKER_06 51:25

I love that.

SPEAKER_03 51:25

Everyone type in the comments the backrooms! That's right. Just kidding. Don't do that. Uh, since you talked about the diamond um your or the your your jewelry, I'm gonna go to to mine. But then afterward, I've got uh one that is very interesting that I definitely want to cover, which is um called the Hexum Heads. And I'll get into that one after. Uh, because that one is very unique and kind of disturbing. Um, it even has like if you look, there's an interview that was done by the BBC, one of the people. Um, I don't have the full interview on the thing because the four the interview itself is like four minutes, but you can see the person who's getting interviewed as she's talking about it. Like she's genuinely, genuinely scared.

SPEAKER_06 52:07

Um so it will include the link, maybe at the bottom of the sure.

SPEAKER_03 52:12

Yeah, I think I think so. I think so. Just also be aware that you know the um the interview itself has imagery because they add some imagery into it that um has stayed with people. They rediscovered it. The the article that I read um was about the uh the interview the BBC did was rediscovered because they they had been lost in the archives. They used AI uh an an AI search engine to to find to pick out some pieces uh and um it stayed in the minds of a lot of people because some of the imagery that they added to it was like haunting imagery. Oh um, granted, this was haunting in the 70s, so um it's if you uh have seen things in the media, it might you might be a little be you might be a little desensitized to it, might not be as haunting to you. But anyway, but that's not what I'm talking about right now. Because what I'm talking about right now is the deli purple sapphire, deli India deli, the D-E-L-H-I deli, not uh delicious sandwiches, as was thought of by somebody in this room whose name I will not say.

SPEAKER_04 53:31

It was a joke, they were talking about deli. I said, Oh, you mean a deli sandwich? And they both said no India.

SPEAKER_03 53:39

We're talking about India. No, so um, but today it sits inside the Natural History Museum in London. A purple gemstone mounted in a silver ring shaped like a snake, decorated with zodiac symbols and engraved with the letter T. It's usually called the Delhi Purple Sapphire. It's got some other names too, though.

SPEAKER_05 54:01

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 54:02

Um, but uh fun fact, it's not actually a sapphire. It's an amethyst. And according to legend, it has brought misery to nearly everyone who has owned it. The story begins during the Indian Rebellion of 1857 when a British cavalry officer named Colonel W. Ferris allegedly took the stone from a temple d dedicated to the Hindu god Indra in the city named uh Kanpur. Kanpur. Ferris returned to England with the gemstone. Soon afterward, his family began suffering severe financial problems. Then came a series of illnesses and other personal misfortunes. At first, Ferris blamed poor decisions and bad luck, but his suspicions apparently changed when he lent the stone to a family friend. That friend later died by suicide. By 1980, the amethyst had passed into the possession of Edward Heron Allen, a respected writer and scientist. Haron Allen was not, at least initially, a particularly suspicious man, but after receiving the stone, he claimed that misfortune began following him as well.

SPEAKER_06 55:12

Superstitious?

SPEAKER_03 55:13

Yeah, did I what did I say?

SPEAKER_06 55:14

You said suspicious.

SPEAKER_03 55:16

Oh, superstitious man. I meant superstitious. Thank you. He was not particularly a superstitious man. Okay. But yeah, that changed. Um whenever he gave the amethyst away, the trouble seemed to move with it. One friend reported suffering a string of disasters shortly after borrowing the jewel and quickly returned it. A professor a professional singer supposedly wore the stone, and afterward never sang publicly again. And um oh I went to the wrong page again. Um wait. This is twelve. Oh no, I was right. Oh, and she was far from alone. No. 1112. Oh, what the heck?

SPEAKER_02 56:07

Where why is it 10?

SPEAKER_06 56:08

Because you're talking about the stone, so you're having bad luck. Oh no, my luck is bad. 13 is an unlucky number.

SPEAKER_03 56:15

That is true. I think it's just because I probably moved this wrong. So, okay, just to remind everyone where we are. Um, afterward, she never sang publicly again. So he gave her this this uh amethyst. She never sang again. Eventually, Heron Allen became so desperate to rid himself of the object that he threw it into the Regent's canal. For several months, the stone was gone, but then it came back. According to the story, the ring was dredged from the canal and brought to a jeweler. The jeweler recognized it as a piece he had previously worked on for Heron Allen, and believing he was being helpful, returned it to him. Hi, I see you've uh dropped this, sir. Here you go. Unable to escape the gemstone. Yeah, except for he said it, have a good day. And he started laughing maniacally as he as he sauntered away. Uh, according to the story, no, sorry. Uh unable to escape the gemstone, Haron Allen sealed it inside seven boxes, surrounded it with protective charms, and placed it inside a bank vault. You know, a reasonable action for a reasonable person to do.

SPEAKER_06 57:27

Did the bank burn down?

SPEAKER_03 57:29

I I we'll find out.

SPEAKER_06 57:31

Was there trolls guarding the bank vault?

SPEAKER_03 57:34

Actually, those are goblins. I'm sorry. Um he left behind a warning describing the stone as cursed and stained by the blood and dishonor of everyone who had owned it. His instructions stated that the boxes should remain unopened until 33 years after his death. Heron Allen died in 1943. His daughter waited approximately one year. Said, I I have read your will, I have understood it, and I say, screw that will. I do what I want. She then she gave the stone to the Natural History Museum.

SPEAKER_06 58:13

Oh.

SPEAKER_03 58:14

For decades, the amethyst remained largely forgotten inside the museum's collection.

SPEAKER_06 58:18

That burned down. Sorry.

SPEAKER_03 58:20

No, I think it's still there. I think it's still there. Uh when a curator rediscovered it, he also found Heron Allen's written warning. And conclude it concluded with a final piece of advice. Whoever opens the box could do whatever they wished with the stone. But Heron Allen recommended throwing it into the sea. Today the so-called Deli Purple Sapphire remains in the museum's collection. But there's another possible ending to the story. One that's a little less supernatural, unfortunately. Heron Allen was not only a scientist, like what was stated, he was a writer of fiction. In 1921.

SPEAKER_04 58:57

They always make us the bad guys.

SPEAKER_03 58:58

I know. You dang old fiction writers and writing scary stories.

SPEAKER_04 59:03

That's right.

SPEAKER_03 59:03

In 1921, he published a supernatural story called The Purple Sapphire.

unknown 59:09

Oh.

SPEAKER_03 59:09

Which is easier to say than amethyst. That is very true. Amethyst is a difficult word. Because of that, some have suggested that he invented or at least greatly exaggerated the Amethyst's curse.

SPEAKER_02 59:21

Except the singer who couldn't sing after she wore it.

SPEAKER_03 59:25

Well, I mean, but the idea of made that up to mess that up. Yes. Uh the Amethyst curse is publicly as publicity for his own writing. Uh yeah, the suicides, illnesses, ruined careers, and strange operations may have been embellished, borrowed from fiction, or added to the legend over time. Um, which kind of leaves us with two different possibilities. Perhaps Edward Heron Allen was a rational man who slowly driven to desperation by an object he genuinely believed was cursed, and he saw evidence of that curse. Or perhaps he understood something important about haunted objects. Sometimes the most powerful thing attached to an object is not a spirit. It is a story.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:06

Ooh, dunno is a big thing.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:07

And once the story has taken hold, it can remain long after the person who created it is gone. Nice. There we go. Now you can do the dun dun dun.

SPEAKER_06 1:00:16

Dun dun dun. I have to say it reminded me uh the part where he threw it in the the river, the rhine, and it was dredged up. Yeah. That the story about the woman who uh what is it? His a mother-in-law was reading The Exorcist, and she got into it and she was terrified of it, and she didn't want to read it anymore, so she threw it into the ocean. So her, I believe, son-in-law bought another copy, soaked it in the kitchen sink, and then so mean, and then I love it. Stuck it on her bedstand for her to wake up and see the next morning.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:53

Like horrifying came back to her. I if that happened to me, I kid you not, I would poop myself. I would actually, out of terror, I would poop myself. That is amazing. Yeah, I love that so much. The best prank I have ever heard. Please never do that to me. Well, didn't didn't um didn't we have siblings do a similar thing? Because we used to have, I don't know why we did. Uh several of our family members had various different porcelain styled dolls, including a creepy porcelain clown. Okay.

SPEAKER_06 1:01:27

So so my my oldest daughter, Jennifer, started collecting porcelains. Would you guys have have met? Oh, that's right, yes. And uh so she was collecting porcelain dolls when before we realized that they were all evil. Planket statement. Nobody prove us otherwise. And so um, so we ended up they ended up freaking her out. So they got they got stored carefully, you know, with paper and bubble wrap.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:57

In the bottom of a river.

SPEAKER_06 1:01:59

No, up in the attic in in the back of the room.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:02

Did we see you even have them?

SPEAKER_06 1:02:03

I I think I gave them to her to get them out of the house. Fair enough. So one, so then Katie and Sarah are 18 months apart, and they are. I'm trying to think of the age difference between like a year. No, between Jen and them. There are three so Chris, Nathan, and David came between before Katie and Sarah came.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:27

There's a pretty big gap.

SPEAKER_06 1:02:28

So Chris was two, then Nathan was four, so six, and then eight. So eight years between that. So now Katie and Sarah are um middle schoolers and they're having a sleepover. Well, not right now, when the story takes place. When the story takes place. Uh now they're grown-up moms. They're adults. Yes. So they're middle schoolers having a bunch of girlfriends over, and Nathan and David are high schoolers. Oh yeah. And brothers. And so the girls all go downstairs to get pizza and watch TV, and all of the girls are gonna come back up to actually this this room that we're in today was the girls' bedroom at that point. So Nathan and David go up to the attic, they get a bunch of the porcelain dolls.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:18

So made.

SPEAKER_06 1:03:19

They bring them down to the bedroom and they put them on the bed looking at the doorway.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:24

Ugh.

SPEAKER_06 1:03:25

So the girls come up, they turn on the lights, and there's all these porcelain dolls staring at them with their arms out. Oh, yeah, because it yeah, it's a yes, exactly. So the screams echoed through the house. And David and Nathan thought that was his stereotype. Because it I'm sure it was. It was. So it took a while to calm the girls down. It was almost as good as when the ghost turned off the lights for your party. Yeah. But it just wasn't ghosts. This was totally big brotherhood.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:57

But we can say it was doll-related. Um I have a voodoo question actually, since we were talking about dolls. So has like the the the voodoo doll thing has ever been usually it's done to like curse another person. Has it been used to help another person? I bet like a voodoo doll that like I don't know, that you you stick them into like, I don't know, give them like a like a blanket and make them cozy and give them. I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:26

I I could see I could see it being used as like maybe fortune or something, like give like putting it attaching, you know, various like dollar bills or something, whatever, whatever to use symbolizes wealth and and fortune. I could see it. I had not heard any stories.

SPEAKER_06 1:04:43

I think they tend to use um like amulets or packets of um, you know, like um linen packets, and then they put like different herbs and different for spells for good luck or for things like that.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:01

I really think when you create an effigy of somebody, which is what you know I could still see it being used as a protection though, as well. Maybe not, maybe not wealth, but I could see it being used as a protection.

SPEAKER_06 1:05:11

The danger is it getting into somebody else's hands, so that's why you don't want to create something like that because somebody else could pick it up.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:18

Yeah, I I personally don't know. I've not heard any stories like that. Generally speaking, when I when I hear about any stories that have anything to do with voodoo dolls, which I don't hear very often anymore, um, but if I do, usually they're used for somebody purposes doing bad things, could see it potentially being used positively, but you're right. If there's an effigy created in somebody's name, um likeness, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:05:42

It could fall into somebody else's hands. Right. So it's just a bad So it's it's like a dangerous thing.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:47

So I shouldn't make a voodoo doll of Andrew with like a controller. That's right. I'm I mean to. Honestly, you don't need to.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:54

I'll play games anyway. Somebody else has probably already done that because I I always Yeah. No, I mean that's tough. I this this one also might be something we might toss to the to the viewers as well, to listeners, viewers. Have you guys heard of a uh of a a voodoo doll or something that's generally associated with you know darker magic, an effigy like that, that is actually used for positivity. Right. Um, because that would be an interesting story. I'll just call it an action figure. There you go. It's not a voodoo doll. Yeah, it's not a doll. It's an action figure. It's my it's my DIY Funko Pops. It's ready. I you know, I feel like it's it's hopefully one day we'll get to the point where we can have our own Funko Pops. Uh just please don't use them as effigies for us. Okay, this is a side tangent uh of a side tangent. Um you know, actually, I don't even want to say it because uh I'm gonna be talking about uh uh a fandom that is um dangerous. Okay. So it was okay, there's there's a track. Yeah, well, no. This I I will tell you guys, I feel like I feel like I I have said it out loud. I should at least tell you guys what I was thinking. There's a certain subgroup of the fandom of the Taylor Swift, like the Taylor Swift fandoms, right? Who will on like they will type out and curse various different people, social media people. They will they will film themselves or they're what cursing them if they say something negative about Taylor Swift.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:28

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:29

I've I I've seen it. Uh there's a YouTuber that I watch, um Meet Canyon. I watch him every once in a while. He did uh a cartoon about Taylor Swift, and he got a lot of he received quite a lot of emails and videos about women cursing him.

SPEAKER_06 1:07:45

Is he still alive and fine? Yeah, good.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:47

He he didn't uh yeah, it didn't seem to affect him. In fact, it actually grew his YouTube viewer base. So it kind of, you know, it did the opposite uh effect.

SPEAKER_06 1:07:55

But there you now we have the answer to our questions.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:58

Yeah, now you got me thinking about like maybe I should make a voodoo doll version of myself and put them on the shelf behind you.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:04

So that's sort of being on camera. That would be fun.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:08

I'll work on that. Yeah, we can do that.

SPEAKER_06 1:08:10

I love that. So I I know you want to talk about the the head thing, but uh as we're on the subject of dolls. So I remember listening to uh because you have a story. I've got one story about a doll. But um I think it was one of the Josh Gates shows, either Expedition X or Expedition Unknown or something like that. One of those expeditions that he went on. One of those, and they were looking. So there's that island of the dolls in Japan, right?

SPEAKER_03 1:08:45

No, no, no, no, no. Mexico. Mexico, yes. I've I watched that episode. She because the the doll moved.

SPEAKER_06 1:08:52

Yeah. Jessica was in there. She was in the because this was built. This was exp because it was one of the newer ones.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:58

Yeah, the Expedition X. And it was uh because I remember the the uh the co one of the co-hosts she's Phil and Jessica, and Jess, I think. Jessica had a hard time, yeah. It was with Jessica. She she like got knocked with she got hurt or not, she got like a massive headache or something. She felt nauseous or whatever.

SPEAKER_06 1:09:14

And she was doing like a uh she was by herself in this hut hut that they had, and you know, Phil didn't believe any of this, of course, and they were filming her, and she wasn't aware, but they were watching this doll move behind her, and there's I didn't even realize that. Yes, and when there's a lot of um stories about the fact that dolls were made hollow, yep, so that spirits could I could see that being take over their bodies, could could I don't live there.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:52

You know, I could actually see that being the case where the original idea of a doll, of an effigy, we'll say would be for something to because I mean there are a lot of um when it comes to ancient religions, there are a lot of effigies for various different, you know, deities that they worshipped, and and those those deities were present. I mean, those effigies were present in the in whatever worship that they had.

SPEAKER_06 1:10:19

When you go back to Celtic, um, you know, early, early Celtic, where the the the beginnings of the uh jack-o' lantern, yeah, but it was turnips and things like that.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:29

Which is markedly creepier, I gotta say, if you've ever seen turnip jack-o'-lanterns, like holy cow, I'm so glad we have pumpkin ones because turnips are yes, but they hollowed them out so the spirits could be there.

SPEAKER_06 1:10:43

Interesting. And so those are, you know, you start thinking about that. And I and I so one of the things I did when I was preparing for this is I went on eBay and I did haunted objects. There were thousands of haunted porcelain dolls for sale on eBay, and it was like scary. I mean, it was and and the stories, and I've got some of the stories because I did do some, but the stories that supposedly of the spirit that resides in the doll are are very interesting. Yeah, but and I know that you've got the Robert, are you gonna Robert the doll?

SPEAKER_03 1:11:27

Well, I've I will talk about that one, but I will say the hexam heads. You go ahead and do your head. It is doll, it is doll adjacent, it is also Celtic adjacent.

SPEAKER_06 1:11:38

Oh, well, see, cool, great segue. Go for it.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:41

So look at that, look at that segue. Segues are very slow. Um, in 1971, two brothers were playing in the back garden of their home in Hexham, a small town in northern England.

SPEAKER_05 1:11:56

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:58

That's the wrong one. I'm embarrassed. I've already started the story to a bad start. Um, 11-year-old Colin Robson uh was digging through the soil when he uncovered something small, round, and unusually heavy. At first it looked like an ordinary stone, but after brushing away the dirt, Colin realized it had a face. Two eyes, a nose, and a mouth crudely shaped into the surface. It looked like a tiny human head. I know. Colin's younger brother, Leslie, soon joined the search and found another one nearby. The two objects were roughly the same size and style, although one appeared more masculine and the other more feminine. They were made from a strange greenish-gre material with small crystal-like fragments visible inside. Naturally, the boys brought their discoveries into the house. Their mother allowed them to display the heads on a downstairs shelf. That was when strange things reportedly began happening. The family would wake in the morning and find the heads facing a different direction, sometimes turn toward the garden where they had been buried. At night, the Robsons heard unexplained noises around the house. Doors were found unlocked and standing open. Glass shattered without an obvious cause. And sometimes they heard what sounded like claws clicking across the linoleum floor. Ew. Then the family next door began experiencing things as well. The Dodds, who were their neighbors, had already seen the stone heads, but initially thought little of them. They were simply something two boys had done out dug out of the garden. Soon, however, the Dodd home reportedly developed a strange odor like a wet dog. Their son, Brian, began walking began waking, excuse me, began waking with unexplained marks on his arms. He claimed that something touched him while he slept. One source I read said something had pulled his hair.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:09

Oh.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:10

Um, yeah, that's what okay. One night Brian awoke to the sound of the family dog howling. He discovered the front door standing wide open and hurried back upstairs where something suddenly pulled on his hair. There we go. That's where that is. His mother had dismissed many of Brian's earlier stories as an overactive imagination. But that same night, she saw something for herself. Mrs. Dodd woke to find a figure standing in the bedroom doorway. At first, she could only see its outline. Then it stepped into the room. She described it as neither fully human nor fully animal. It stood upright, but appeared to have an animal-like head and body. As it moved closer, it grabbed her foot, and she believed she felt cloven hooves. She screamed.

SPEAKER_06 1:15:04

Okay, wait. It grabbed her foot with cloven hooves. Um that wouldn't be a really good grab.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:12

Yeah, it wouldn't be very good at grabbing, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:15:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:16

I don't know. Um and I it I might have uh it might have been uh incorrectly interpreted. Okay. Um but it grabbed her foot and she saw the cloven hooves.

SPEAKER_06 1:15:27

Maybe hands on top, cloven hooves in the top.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:30

Yeah, yes. Uh the creature dropped onto all fours, scrambling across the landing and disappeared down the stairs. Mrs. Dodd searched the house but found sorry, Mr. Dodd searched the house but found nothing. Not long afterwards, the Dodd family requested a transfer to another council house and moved away. The Robsons eventually handed eventually handed the heads over to the Hexham Abbey, which passed them to the Museum of Antiquities in Newcastle. According to the family, once the heads were gone, the disturbances stopped. But the story follows the objects. The heads eventually came to the possession of Dr. Anne Ross, an archaeologist and authority on ancient Celtic religion. Because the human head held enormous spiritual significance in some Celtic traditions, Ross initially believed the objects might be ancient artifacts, perhaps nearly 2,000 years old. She took them home for further study. At the time, Ross said that she knew very little about the strange activity reported by the families in Hexham. So she didn't, so they were just given objects. She didn't know about it.

SPEAKER_06 1:16:33

This was in when? Like 1970. 1971. Okay, so there were already movies about you don't bring things like that home.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:40

Yeah. You're right. You're right. But also, I'm sure this most of the objects that she works with probably aren't overtly haunted in this way. That's right, right, right, right. You know, this is this is this is odd. Um and she didn't know. Like she says, she didn't know anything about it. But soon after the heads entered her house, she woke one night feeling intensely cold. Standing against the pale bedroom door was a dark figure, approximately six feet tall. Ross described described it as stooped and covered in dark fur with the upper body of a wolf-like animal and the lower body of a human.

SPEAKER_06 1:17:20

Dogman.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:21

It's a dogman. And there's actually, I think if you Google uh Hexum Dogman, this story also pops up.

SPEAKER_06 1:17:28

Interesting, but a dogman with cloven feet. That would be very difficult.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:32

Well that's what one person that's one person reports having seen.

SPEAKER_06 1:17:35

A dogman in high heels.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:38

A dog goatman.

SPEAKER_06 1:17:40

A dog goatman.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:41

Um, yeah, so anyway, she left. Oh, sorry, the figure left the room. For reasons she could not explain. I remember this part uh in is in the interview. Ross felt compelled to follow it because of course she did. You know?

SPEAKER_06 1:17:57

Well, she's a scientist, so maybe there's that.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:59

She was terrified. She was like, I don't know why. I felt like I needed to follow it.

SPEAKER_06 1:18:04

That is scary.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:05

Yeah. Yep. She heard it moving down the staircase, but when she reached the bottom, it had vanished. Other members of the household reported cold sensations, unexplained smells, and doors opening on their own. Then Ross's teenage daughter claimed to see a similar creature. She returned home alone when something dark vaulted over the stair banister and landed heavily in the hallway. She described it as resembling a werewolf. Like her mother, she felt compelled to follow it toward the back of the house. And like her mother, she found nothing there.

SPEAKER_06 1:18:41

Thank goodness.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:42

Yeah. I'm I'm glad that they both, even though I'm not glad they both felt compelled, I'm glad they both didn't find anything there when they did go there.

SPEAKER_06 1:18:49

Or didn't get dead.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:51

Yeah. Yeah. I'm glad neither of them got dead. Um Ross removed the heads from the home. Thank goodness. The activity reportedly stopped. The objects were later examined by a chemist named Don Robbins, who believed certain stones could absorb powerful emotions or events and later replay them, almost like a recording. Robbins did not report seeing the creature, but he did say the heads produced an extremely unpleasant atmosphere, particularly the more feminine-looking one. Of course. Women. Sorry. Anyway. I lost my place. Oh, okay. Then the story takes a sharp turn. After the case received national attention, a former resident of the Robson House named Desmond Craig came forward. Craig claimed, this is Craig spelled, sorry, Craigie, I think, probably. C-R-A-I-G-I-E. Craigie claimed the heads were not ancient at all. He said he had made them from concrete during the 1950s as toys for his daughter, and that they had eventually been lost in the garden.

SPEAKER_06 1:20:03

Here, honey, here's some concrete heads for you to play with.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:07

Here, play with these concrete heads. Aren't they aren't they so fun, daughter? Enjoy. He even produced similar heads to demonstrate how he made them. So he got like a little mold and everything. I I will say, and I don't let me before I before I go into that, let me just make sure I hadn't already writ rewritten it. Later testing reportedly supported his explanation. The objects appeared to have been molded from modern concrete rather than carved from ancient stone. Okay. And that should have been in the story, right? Right. It got debunked. But it didn't.

SPEAKER_05 1:20:43

It didn't.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:44

Because even if Craigie truly made the heads, that does not explain why several people in different homes claimed to witness strange activity around them. It does not explain why Mrs. Dodd and Dr. Ross both described animal-like figures. It does not and it does not explain one final detail about the story. The original Hexam heads were eventually handed to another investigator, sometimes identified in accounts as a psychic or douser named Frank Hyde. After that, both the man and the heads disappeared from the story. Attempts to contact him reportedly went unanswered. One account claimed that he had been involved in a serious car accident, but neither the original heads nor their final owner were ever reliably located again. Their current whereabouts remain unknown. Are there any pictures of these things? There are, actually. Yeah. That's pretty cool. There's some uh now the pictures that I saw, ooh, sorry. Uh the pictures that I saw were illustrations of what the Hexum heads looked like. I I'm assuming there must be pictures somewhere. Um somebody had must have taken pictures, but there is recording, like I said, of Dr. Ross explaining what had happened, and really like you can see as she's describing things. She's trying to be very, she's trying to explain it like uh like a scholar. As she's talking about it, she's using that the that language of like, I I, you know, if that were to happen, I would have called it, you know, where you can tell she's trying to remove herself, but also she's experiencing again, and you can tell by the way that she like she looks scared. She and and as she's describing the story, like you can tell she's uncomfortable because it happened. And and you know, I won't say there's a tremble in the voice, but there is that like breathy, you know. Um I guess, yeah, breathy aura, not aura, but like the the way that you talk when you are kind of scared about something that you're you're reviewing in your mind.

SPEAKER_06 1:22:50

And then they found out that Craigie's daughter was like a murderer. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:56

Uh and so so some of the things are of the dark arts. Some of the other things that they don't mention here, uh, he does reproduce the the concrete molds, right? But when he makes them, uh they look at the molds that he just made he just made, and they compared it to the the uh the stones, the the heads. They did not look similar enough to be uh conclusively made by Craigie. They're like even if this is modern concrete, you didn't make them because you these molds that you say were like were made for these, they they don't look similar at all.

SPEAKER_06 1:23:38

Well, although if they've been buried in the ground and if they've but even still, even with all that wear and tear, it's still it still looked too different.

unknown 1:23:48

Interesting.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:48

So there's some strange inconsistencies going on here with a lot of the things in the story, which honestly make it makes it to me more interesting. Because, you know, sh this Celtic researcher looks at it, but from from what I've read, it doesn't look like any any carving that would have been like it doesn't it doesn't track for it to be any kind of it doesn't match anything in history.

SPEAKER_06 1:24:15

But you know, when we've looked at stories about dogmen, we've never uh from what I understand had a dogman appear as a spirit.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:26

It it tends to be it's a tangible thing, it's a tangible thing. So well and it and it appears to be a tangible thing, even this one, because the Dod's home right. They hear the click, click, click. That well, no, that's the Robson's home. That too, but the dog the Dod's home had a smell of wet dog.

SPEAKER_06 1:24:42

That's right. And so was this like a you know, like a dog whistle, but uh concrete dog whistle that called this thing to it?

SPEAKER_03 1:24:52

Somehow it was, yeah, yeah. It was it was haunted by the physical presence of this dog man. It almost like summoned it, maybe, or something. I don't know. Right, it had a sniff to it, or you know Yeah, that's it's got that smellman smell.

SPEAKER_06 1:25:06

It just smells so good. Uh so I went on eBay to to see what I could buy if I were going to buy haunted haunted objects.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:16

Uh yes. Uh how do I want to haunt myself today? That's right.

SPEAKER_06 1:25:20

What possession do I want to so I'm gonna read you a couple of them because I they were just so incredible to me.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:26

I I'm excited. I'm excited.

SPEAKER_06 1:25:28

Okay, so Gizmo is the first. Now, Gizmo looked to me, he's just Is it like the mouse?

SPEAKER_03 1:25:35

Gizmo the the the mouse from uh the the rescuers?

SPEAKER_06 1:25:38

No, it's just this little stuffed animal thing. It and it's almost blobby, you know. Uh it almost looks like a a bean bag, but it's it's a dog.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:49

Oh, so gizmo is a is a is a dog.

SPEAKER_06 1:25:52

Uh a stuffed animal, dog, bean bag-ish kind of stuffed animal.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:56

Gotcha.

SPEAKER_06 1:25:57

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:57

I'm following.

SPEAKER_06 1:25:58

Okay. And this is directly from eBay. This is the description. Sure. Gizmo is from a thrift store sitting high behind glass. The first phenomena tied to gizmo was sound. At night, I began hearing sharp knocks on the wall of the room where the doll was kept. Okay, that's more than a sound.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:19

That's an I feel like a knock is is both a sound as well as a physical because something's got a few.

SPEAKER_06 1:26:27

They weren't random creaks or settling noises. These were deliberate patterned raps. Two quick knocks, spaced evenly apart. It happened several times in my presence. Objects began to shift not long after that. At first it was subtle, pens rolling across my desk, a notebook sliding an inch to the side, but then heavier items were disturbed. One morning a chair in the room was pushed slightly away from the table, as if someone had sat down and then risen again. I was the only person home at the time. The activity grew stronger whenever attention was on the doll. During one session, I set a small ball on the floor a few feet away and asked aloud for any presents tied to Gizmo to move it. Oh, he's playing fetch. I know. After several minutes of stillness, the ball rolled slowly but decisively across the hardwood until it tapped against my shoe.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:25

And it's like, throw it again, throw it again.

SPEAKER_06 1:27:27

Yeah. I was never able to replicate this phenomena again.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:32

Oh, it didn't want to play fetch anymore.

SPEAKER_06 1:27:35

But it was quite fascinating to have experienced the one time it was successful. Unlike some spirits I've encountered, the one time to gizmo the one tied to gizmo doesn't feel malevolent, but he does enjoy making his presence unmistakably known. A textbook example of a poltergeist bound to the doll that now sits in your presence. He mentioned he died in his early twenties in an accident. Trying to save his dog. He's a sweet spirit who will be who will be sure and then it stops.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:09

So I don't know what happens to you selling it then if it's such a sweet, sweet spirit.

SPEAKER_06 1:28:14

This vessel is uncleans. Light a white candle, burn incense, and give a small present to welcome it into your home. eBay requires that I add the policy on purchasing paranormal metaphysical objects.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:27

I didn't know that eBay did that.

SPEAKER_06 1:28:29

Forbids the sale of intangible objects, spirits, entities, luck, magic, etc. Therefore, I am only selling this as a doll. There is no guarantee of paranormal slash supernatural events taking place as a result of purchasing this doll. Nor is there any guarantee of an entity being attached to this doll. And I am not responsible for any experiences that do happen or do not happen once this doll is within your possession. You are physically only purchasing a doll. And everything described about this doll within this post and through communication with me is intended for entertainment purposes only. Doll is sold as is. Message with any questions, thank you.

SPEAKER_03 1:29:28

Interesting. I I mean, I don't know. I obviously I don't know the person who who put that in there. Well, right. To me, uh I I guess you need knuckles in order to to knock on something, but I don't know. The the the description Or he could have fleas and he was just I was gonna say it really does sound more like a dog than a man who used to own a dog. To me, that's what it sounds like. Yep. I don't know. Okay, I'm gonna give you one more. Okay, hit me, hit me with it.

SPEAKER_06 1:29:58

Haunted doll, active spirit, cat, demon, shape shifter, gold tone, brass.

SPEAKER_03 1:30:08

I mean, really, that did sound like it was supposed to be put to a beat. It's a it's a it feels like a wrap. Sorry, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:30:15

There's an immediate disclaimer. It is recommended that you have some knowledge with this. Be careful. A hundred percent authentic shapeshifter.

SPEAKER_03 1:30:25

The name buy a shapeshifter, guys. Don't do it. Don't sell a shapeshifter, don't buy a shapeshifter.

SPEAKER_06 1:30:32

The shapeshifter's name is Fenrir. F-E-N-R-I-R. R R R R R R R Fenrir? Wait, wait, wait, Fenrir? Fenrir. F-E-N-R-R-R-D.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:44

Is that is that the Norse dog? Wolf god. Yes. Of chaos and destruction.

SPEAKER_03 1:30:53

Yes, yes. Uh let me see. Fenrir, yep, fen uh fenrir, known as the Fenriss Fenriss Wolf in Norse mythology, is a colossal wolf born with born of the trickster god Loki and the giantist. I'm not gonna try to pronounce that name.

SPEAKER_06 1:31:08

Okay, thank you for that.

SPEAKER_03 1:31:09

But yeah, so it's Loki's Loki's son, who also is supposed to be a big part of Ragnarok, because all of Loki's children are kind of huge important parts of Ragnarok.

SPEAKER_06 1:31:20

Moving back to the Well, that's the name of the thing, Fenrir. Right. Yeah. Meet Fenrir, wolf god of chaos and destruction. Who's somebody you want in your house? Yeah. The meaning of his name represents him well. This is a cat demon.

SPEAKER_03 1:31:35

And it's one of a kind. Give a cat demon a dog name. That's interesting.

SPEAKER_06 1:31:39

He loves magic, the smell of good food, and bright lights. He has changed into flames, a black silhouette with horns, and a black panther. I'd really worried about that black silhouette with horns. That would be a no-seller.

SPEAKER_03 1:31:56

That's a big red flag, I feel like.

SPEAKER_06 1:31:58

When I got this from this small town upstate in a flea market.

SPEAKER_03 1:32:04

Crazy enough. I tried to go back to the town. It wasn't there anymore.

SPEAKER_06 1:32:07

That's right. It had been burned to the ground. I could feel the intensity even when I just looked at him. Be ready for disembodied footsteps and voices, knocking that comes in threes, and possible scratches on your legs and arms.

SPEAKER_03 1:32:22

Oh, yeah, casual.

SPEAKER_06 1:32:23

That's right. Things will slow down the longer you have Fenrir. Beware and take care. This isn't for the weak. Don't say I didn't warn you. This vessel is uncleans. Light a white candle, burn incense, and give a small present to welcome it into your home.

SPEAKER_03 1:32:39

Is that a standard copycase thing?

SPEAKER_06 1:32:41

And then the same disclaimer that I read for um And you don't have to reread the whole thing. No, I'm not going to, but it had that same yes.

SPEAKER_03 1:32:50

Yeah, it yeah, because eBay doesn't sell uh ghosts.

SPEAKER_06 1:32:55

Okay, I'm gonna do one more. In the shadowed halls, this is again an eBay.

SPEAKER_03 1:33:01

Well you gotta in the shadowed halls. I like that.

SPEAKER_05 1:33:04

In the shadowed halls of the Norwich haunted insane asylum.

SPEAKER_03 1:33:12

Ooh, oh no.

SPEAKER_06 1:33:14

These two antique skeleton keys hold a chilling legacy. The larger ornate key on the left. The larger ornate key once unlocked the cell of a tormented spirit, a nurse driven mad by the asylum's horrors. It's heart-shaped handle.

SPEAKER_01 1:33:37

Carved with swirling curses. Pulses. Pause. Carved with swirling curses?

SPEAKER_03 1:33:42

That's what it says. So it's a heart carved with curses.

SPEAKER_06 1:33:47

I I didn't carve it. I'm just reading the ad. I just think that's very that's very heart-shaped can handle carved with swirling curses, pulses with her restless energy. Witnesses claim it moves on its own at midnight. I wonder now that we're not gonna have um daylight savings time if if it's gonna change and if it becomes yeah, midnight or one, depending on 11.

SPEAKER_03 1:34:12

Yeah, yeah. Also, does it does it shift like if I if I purchase it in California and then I move it to New York, is it does it change with the timing?

SPEAKER_06 1:34:22

All these questions. Yeah. The smaller, simpler key on the right belong to a patient who vanished, leaving behind whispers of a vengeful ghost. Both keys forged in brass and worn by time are extremely active. Owners report eerie sounds, cold spots, and shadowy figures. Acquired from the asylum's ruins, they're not just relics, they're gateways to the other side.

SPEAKER_03 1:34:56

Actually, they're keys to open gateways to the other side. Thank you very much. Uh they're keys.

SPEAKER_06 1:35:02

So handle with caution. Only the brave dare possess them. P.O. Box 2. We ship out the same day on next business day.

SPEAKER_03 1:35:14

No, I I guess we are poking fun of these a little bit, but I obviously we're poking fun of these. Just a little bit. Just a little bit. But I guess I don't know. I think part of the reason why I poke fun of these is because, well, first of all, unfortunately, with eBay, it's way too easy to make anything, you know. Oh, it's a haunted key. It's actually just a normal key. You know, it's we don't know. We don't know. It's too easy to do that though. But the stories are great, the stories are fantastic. But also, my thought as well is there's this haunted, dark, evil entity. You want to buy it? Uh it you know, shipping handily is completely free if you buy it.

SPEAKER_06 1:35:51

And we ship next day, so yeah, it feels it just feels too so the haunted, horned, shadowy figure can be in your house by tomorrow.

SPEAKER_03 1:36:00

Yeah, do you want a cat named after a dog? Uh an ancient dog of chaos specifically. A shapeshifter? Yeah, shapeshifter. Yeah. I guess it could be a cat or dog. Or yeah, that goaded dude, or that that horned dude. Was it it, was it a guy? It was a shadowy figure with horns. They never specified a shadowy figure of what, right?

SPEAKER_06 1:36:20

Right. No, but I'm thinking it was a person. That was a that would be my so you know, Satan, you know.

SPEAKER_03 1:36:27

You want to buy Satan for the low, low price on eBay. Yeah, no, I don't uh I don't, I don't, I don't think. I don't know. You do you. If you guys want to purchase any of those, then they're on eBay. I would always warn against purchasing items like that. But I've got for multiple reasons.

SPEAKER_06 1:36:45

Another one that I'm not gonna tell you about the item, but this is what the um one of them says it is not recommended for casual currentity, solitary experimentations without experience, or those uncomfortable with spiritually active objects. So this was a this was uh uh a wicken, a haunted antique coven seance instrumental music box. They are that responds to named spirits. So, but this was another one where they said, if you don't know what you're doing, don't buy it.

SPEAKER_03 1:37:29

Don't buy it. I think that's that's wise in general. And honestly, none of us know what we're doing.

SPEAKER_06 1:37:35

That's what you know. I remember the guy with the when we were talking about Ouija boards, yeah. And I said, You don't use Ouija boards? And he said, Well, if you've been trained, and I thought, who trained you? Who's training people training you?

SPEAKER_03 1:37:46

You know, you know, you know, you know that uh uh was who owns it? Is it Hasbro? No, it's not Hasbro, it's uh Milton Bradley. Milton Milton Bradley, yeah. Uh you didn't know about the Milton Bradley paranormal uh team that go around the the Ouija training team? Yeah, yeah, the Luigi training.

SPEAKER_06 1:38:05

Bradley.

SPEAKER_03 1:38:06

I do want uh not to use just for decoration. I want a uh a Luigi board, which would be a Ouija board that is, yeah, exactly. It would be no and oh yeah, those would be the two, you know. You got it's green, it's got Luigi on there.

SPEAKER_06 1:38:24

Have you seen those? They have they sell rugs that are and they said the and then they have the big, um the large, what are they called? The things that you touch and oh uh planch up. Yes, the planchup. Good. Thank you. Uh and somebody said their dog accidentally summoned a demon.

SPEAKER_00 1:38:42

I'm being worried that my roomba would summon.

SPEAKER_03 1:38:45

That's exactly right. You didn't say no or goodbye. That's why you have to end it with goodbye. Every time you poop, you have to end it with goodbye.

SPEAKER_04 1:38:54

Goodbye. I love the roomba, though. That would be the room. That'd be terrifying.

SPEAKER_03 1:39:00

Yep. Your demon is patiently waiting for you to get home. It's like, man, this guy goes, he's gone forever. Um could you turn your vacuum cleaner off? Now, now this one is I I wanted to do this one. So honestly, because my thought is we've talked about dolls, right? But I almost feel like haunted dolls could be its own episode.

SPEAKER_06 1:39:21

Oh, and so we've we've talked about we've teased the idea because I have got like two pages.

SPEAKER_03 1:39:26

Uh yeah, I feel like I feel like we've teased the idea, we've mentioned various different dolls. I've mentioned my doll by name. I almost feel like we should hold off. I think that would be a good episode for you.

SPEAKER_06 1:39:37

And Ash said yes. He gave us a double thumb.

SPEAKER_03 1:39:40

So, what I'm gonna do instead, um, this is uh haunted item adjacent. This is closest to the third level. This is an item that has been uh haunted or empowered by Will. Okay. Uh this was found on Do we know who Will is?

SPEAKER_02 1:39:57

Fire at Will! Me? Why? What did I do?

SPEAKER_03 1:40:02

Uh no. Okay. We don't. Uh it could be any will.

SPEAKER_06 1:40:06

All right.

SPEAKER_03 1:40:07

Um, but yeah, like I said, yeah. So this isn't haunted I'm per se.

SPEAKER_06 1:40:11

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:40:11

Um so this was found on the subreddit r slash paranormal. This is that one. All right. This is that one. So here's a f here's a fun fact for this one. Um I was actually uh I was gonna go and and put this on on this piece of paper here for the research last night. I and as I was doing it, as I was getting ready for it.

SPEAKER_06 1:40:34

You're the reason the power went out.

SPEAKER_03 1:40:36

All the power went out last night as I was doing, and so I I was for 80 families. Yes, for 80 families. I was due to a car accident I saw on the thing. A car accident had gotten rid of a lot of the power. Hopefully everyone's okay.

SPEAKER_06 1:40:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:40:49

But it was very creepy. I was up in the attic, I was about literally about to copy and paste this story, and then suddenly, boo, all the for me, the computer goes out first, yeah, and then the air conditioning behind me starts to slowly go down, the fan goes down. But one of the lights was staying on for a little bit because it has its own little slight battery charge. And then it went out, and I was like, okay.

SPEAKER_06 1:41:13

And then I got a phone call.

SPEAKER_03 1:41:14

Mom. That was before I was sitting there and I was like, okay, don't freak out. It's probably just a coincidence. Probably just a coincidence, but you'll see why it freaked me out.

SPEAKER_06 1:41:24

And then I said to him, No, hon, the rest of the house is just fine.

SPEAKER_03 1:41:28

Yeah. And then I died. Uh no. But he got better. I got better. No. Uh, okay. Also, a few a few more just not disclaimers. So uh, if you go looking for this particular post, I if you want to really get a good view, I recommend it because there are pictures involved. He took pictures of this. Um, but if you're a bit squeamish, maybe don't look at the pictures. It doesn't have any blood in it or anything like that, but it is you'll you'll see what it is soon.

SPEAKER_06 1:42:05

Oh, now I'm intrigued.

SPEAKER_03 1:42:06

Uh it's it, yeah. Well, yeah. So there's that. Also, this story, we've kind of already talked about witchcraft, but it does possibly involve I won't say specific mechanics of witchcraft, but it it could kind of involve some of that stuff. So if it makes you uncomfortable, you know, it might be best to skip past this story. But again, we've already been kind of talking about witchcraft a little bit too, anyway. So, you know, uh it's up to you. Uh listener discretion is advised. So here's a story. Okay. From dogs are cool and stuff. Um, I'm just a normal guy living in the Pacific Northwest. I have two dogs and I often hike around in the spring and summer days. There is a particular hike that I like to do with my dogs because the trail is a long river. They love to swim. And it's one of those trails that no one really knows about. I've been hiking for about six years now, and I've never seen another person out there. One of my dogs is reactive, so having a place where I never worry about running into another person or dog is perfect for me. April of last year, I loaded my dogs up and drove us to the trailhead. We got out and started hiking around. About two miles in, I came across a tree that someone had used red rope and large nails to tie up what I think is a cow's tongue and nail it to the tree. The tongue itself was tied tightly or bound with rope. Then they used big nails to nail it to a tree. There were two of them on the tree. Next next to the tree in the river water, there were large, again, I'm assuming cow bones scattered. The dogs definitely started to act different. They seemed very uneasy. I looked around a bit to see if anyone was out there, or if there was someone who was maybe houseless and found camp there. But there was nothing around, and no signs of any uh sorry, no sounds of someone uh camping, trash, tent, fire, etc. My dogs kept tucking their tails and would and would stop and look out as if something was near, but I couldn't see anything. I decided to turn back. Once we were fairly far from that tree, the dog started to loosen up again. That night I couldn't stop thinking about it. A, it was all very weird. And B, I had never once seen anyone out that way. It's one of those hikes hikes where there was there is a bit of a hike to the trailhead, and the trailhead doesn't look like a trailhead, and the hike itself is isn't very easy. It's rocky and wet. Worth it once you make it out about three and a half miles, you get to a nice flat beach all to yourself. I kept thinking about it every night for about a week. Then I decided to go back. I packed up my dogs, got ready for the hike, and when I went back, I couldn't find it. But not just the tongues, but the tree. I couldn't even find the tree where they were. I was looking all over. The tree had a somewhat unique lean to it, but I couldn't find it. I felt around on the trees looking for nail holes, but nothing. I tried to look up what this could be online, and all I could find was witchcraft or satanic spells. In short, it seemed like some kind of ritual to keep spirits or people quiet. I'm not sure if the story exactly fits here in the sub, but I'm so curious to know if anyone knows more about this. There's a uh a com a conversation, uh a post between a few different people um after this, uh comments after this. Someone uh someone replied, it's it's a uh Santaria spell. I don't know how how knowledgeable this person is, but they say it's a satania spell. The tongue is meant to represent the tongue of the offender to stop them from slandering or gossiping about you. I really hope you didn't touch it. And then somebody else, you know, replied to that with like an uh up aero emoji emoji saying, I hope OP, original poster, sees this. And then the original poster comments, I did see it and I did not touch it. And then somebody else replied, because this is Reddit, that's what she said. And I did see it, I did not touch it. Yes, um, but no, going back though, like for real season, I mean, so first of all, that's that's kind of why I was a little freaked out about the power going out right when I was trying to share that story. Because, you know, I was like, is is this the spell trying to keep my tight my tongue tied a little bit? That was kind of my thought. Like, am I, you know, obviously I was able to share it. Um, I guess we'll see. Well, I'm assuming this episode would be able to make it out. So if you're listening to this, then uh uh congratulations. Um we made it. Yeah, that means the spell wasn't intended for me specifically. But um, yeah, I don't know. What it what what do you what are your thoughts about that?

SPEAKER_06 1:47:15

I'm interested. I'm I uh creepy story, way creepy story. Um, once again, a good reason not to go walking in the woods, you know. Um I like walk I like hiking and three and a half miles in.

SPEAKER_03 1:47:27

Ah, yeah, but the Pacific Northwest Northwest is gorgeous.

SPEAKER_06 1:47:30

I bet it was gorgeous, but um listen to your dogs. Yes. Um the the whole idea of tongues and nails and bound and and then the bones. I mean, so did they like carry this cow up the three and a half mile hike?

SPEAKER_03 1:47:47

I'm guessing that the objects themselves are probably pre okay. They're they're prepared.

SPEAKER_06 1:47:53

So they went to the butcher shop, bought a couple of cow's tongues. Potentially, because people do that. I mean, people eat that.

SPEAKER_03 1:47:58

I I have eaten cow tongue. I actually I kind of like it. Oh, I mean lengua, it's it's a traditional Spanish.

SPEAKER_06 1:48:06

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:48:07

I think his l lengua is cow tongue, I believe.

SPEAKER_06 1:48:10

He's gonna look it up.

SPEAKER_03 1:48:11

I'm gonna look it up.

SPEAKER_06 1:48:12

So yeah, but but I guess I'm curious to how you feel. This is haunted objects. So was the or haunted stuff. I was right, it's langua. Uh, do you do you feel like I mean the because of the experience and and how disturbed he was by it? Is it one of those hauntings that way? Is that what you're thinking?

SPEAKER_03 1:48:34

I think this is this is one of those objects that it's is not necessarily haunted, but it was imbued with with power. It was it was a representation of something else. It was used in a ritual or ceremony.

SPEAKER_06 1:48:48

And the fact that he couldn't find it, yes, and that's and not only it, the whole tree.

SPEAKER_01 1:48:53

Right.

SPEAKER_06 1:48:53

I mean, and it's not like something he would have noticed if somebody had sawed down a tree or something, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 1:48:59

So yeah, like like I was saying, this is it. I wouldn't say that the story I think it fits because of the categories that we you know that that we've laid out, but I don't know if it necessarily would normally be considered a haunted object, more of a ritual item or an item that through its association was later on imbued with with with power. Kind of like what we were talking about with like um um uh voodoo dolls and those kinds of things. This is essentially that, but it's you know signifying spiritual.

SPEAKER_06 1:49:31

It's true, because they're they're taking that tongue and basically saying we're stopping somebody else from slandering us, exactly. If that's what it really was. Yeah, interesting. Yeah, okay. Well, I'm gonna finish up with uh a story um from uh John Zapfis' Paranormal Museum.

SPEAKER_03 1:49:51

Okay, I like it.

SPEAKER_06 1:49:52

And this was about a grandfather clock, it's just a short story. It says John was called to do an investigation for a family that inherited. Inherited some items after the death of a relative. One of the things they inherited was a grandfather clock. Upon bringing the clock into their home, they allegedly felt that their grandfather was present with them and allegedly smelled his pipe smoke and also felt cold spots around the house. The family started to have an uneasy feeling in the home. They asked John to remove the clock and some other items from the home. The next day they called and said that things felt much more positive in the home. Oh. So maybe they didn't have a great relationship with her grandfather. Honestly, poor guy. I mean, it could be kind of cool to have grandpa hanging around. Maybe not. Maybe some people would be a little uncomfortable.

SPEAKER_03 1:50:45

I mean, that's a hard thing because it's, you know, when it comes to spirits and ghosts, it really depends on how comfortable you are with the idea of somebody that you can't see. Right. Um chilling in the same place with you. For me personally, like, as long as they don't like want any harm done to me, I don't mind too much. Right. I grew up with it though. I'm kind of desensitized. And I was even telling somebody like a couple weeks ago that, you know, um I would be I would I there might be a small part of me who that's disappointed if I ever end up in a house that's not necessarily haunted. You know what I mean? Uh there's a small part of me that kind of wants to end up in a haunted house one day. Um, maybe in Tennessee.

SPEAKER_06 1:51:28

Well, and that's you you to me, especially when we hear these when we've had c people come to our house, not really intending as harm, sure, but TPing the house or or or you know, doing those kinds of things and they see something looking at them out the window. I love that. It's like we this is so much better than ADT.

SPEAKER_01 1:51:51

I mean, we've got we've got we've got ghost security. That's right.

SPEAKER_03 1:51:56

Yeah, yeah, but uh, but you know, if that's not something that you're into, because you know, I understand the idea of somebody deceased hanging with you is a little uncomfortable, then I could understand. And again, we don't know uh if the the grandfather clock is actually haunted by the spirit or by the energy of whatever was happening. Right. Well, they're smelling his the the smoke from his which could be hype, yeah, which could be it still being haunted by a person or event, it could just have been um imprinted with that.

SPEAKER_06 1:52:28

Those things because it was in the same room with them.

SPEAKER_03 1:52:31

Virtual things.

SPEAKER_06 1:52:32

So hey, thank you for listening to us talk about haunted stuff. So it sounds like we're gonna do haunted dolls. Haunted dolls, which is those are they're crazy, spooky, scary.

SPEAKER_03 1:52:44

Which means I get to do more research into uh more haunted dolls because they are, yeah, you're right, they are extra, extra spooky. Um if you have a haunted doll that you'd like us to look into, uh tell us the story about them. So that too. Either, either or let us know.

SPEAKER_06 1:52:59

And I promise, while he's researching haunted dolls, I will turn off the power on in the attic.

SPEAKER_03 1:53:04

Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate that. There will be screams. Um and if you have any any stories in general that you like to share with us, uh, you can either comment those stories down below or you can send us an email at VFTATic. That's voices from the attic, vtattic at gmail.com.

SPEAKER_06 1:53:25

I love that he can remember that. Also, we love your comments. We love your comments. And and so some of the things that we're gonna do because of your comments, we are going to in hopefully.

SPEAKER_03 1:53:36

Hopefully, we we haven't reached out to anyone, so you know, this these are all plans.

SPEAKER_06 1:53:40

One of the plans is to do an on go to to a haunted place.

SPEAKER_03 1:53:44

Yeah, haunted location.

SPEAKER_06 1:53:46

And and do our podcast from there. And Ash is totally cool with that, so that'll be fun. Another one is to um do uh one of our podcasts around a campfire. Yes. So we'll probably it but we're gonna wait till the mosquitoes go away and and we don't melt it with a campfire, so it'll probably be more in the fall. And um also we were asked to do some classic, talk about classic uh ghosts or uh creep monsters.

SPEAKER_01 1:54:15

Monsters, yeah. Like I would I would say like the universal monsters, like vankens Frankenstein.

SPEAKER_03 1:54:21

I don't I don't know if we could do anything about Frankenstein because he was he's kind of technically sci-fi.

SPEAKER_06 1:54:29

I still consider him a classic monster.

SPEAKER_03 1:54:31

Yeah, but I don't know if there are any stories that we could because he was kind of he was maybe we look into Mary Shelley. What gave her the idea? We could I mean we could Was she a medical student? No did she go into the I do actually know why that because because there were scientists around the time that were actually experimenting with electricity and they're putting it into bodies and it would tense the bodies up and everything. I mean that that that was but we could talk about we don't know exactly what the topics are all a little bit. I know we don't know exactly what the topics are, but we will be doing some fun universal or just classic monsters. Yeah, yeah, uh potentially mummies.

SPEAKER_06 1:55:05

Vampires have got a huge great history. That would be a really fun one.

SPEAKER_03 1:55:09

Honestly, everything from like the the Slavic mythology, there's just so much really cool stuff.

SPEAKER_06 1:55:17

So we'll be doing cool stuff, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:55:20

That's all you need to know. Cool stuff.

SPEAKER_06 1:55:22

Cool stuff. Because I I'm a writer, I use specific words when I describe things. Exactly. Anyway, thank you. Uh thank you for listening. Hopefully, you enjoyed this as much as we did, because we really have a good time doing this. And you know what I'm finding? I don't look at my camera, I look at the light. Oh. I've been noticing that I've been doing that. So I apologize. I'm not looking beyond you, I'm just confused.

SPEAKER_03 1:55:49

So well, and I think probably at this point in time we should be looking at that camera anyway. Because we're both talking. Yeah, well, not only that, because uh we're we're wrapping up. Yes. So it's probably gonna be on that uh that wide angle.

SPEAKER_06 1:56:01

Yes. So we hope you have a great week. We hope you enjoyed it. Uh please, if you haven't, please subscribe.

SPEAKER_03 1:56:07

Yes, and share it with your friends um either, you know, just out of fun or by force. We'll take whatever.

SPEAKER_06 1:56:14

And thank you, uh Rusty. Thank you for sharing it with your friends. Keep up the good work. Yes, and we'll see you next week. Bye guys.