How do people even approach Leviticus?

What are Christians supposed to do with the Old Testament Laws?

Do Old Testament laws still matter—or did the resurrection make them obsolete? From dietary rules to ancient commands, many believers aren’t sure how books like Leviticus fit into a faith centered on Jesus.

In this episode, the Three Chicks tackle one of the most confusing—and often avoided—questions in Christianity: how should we read the Old Testament today? Is it outdated history, or an essential part of understanding the full story of God?

Join the conversation as they take a big-picture look at the Old Testament, explore how it connects to the New, and discuss how it should shape our faith, our theology, and how we live as followers of Jesus today.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:05

Welcome to Three Tricks in the Bible, where we ditch the easy answers, roll up our sleeves, and wrestle with the hard stuff in scripture. We're talking about the real question, the messy part, and what it looks like to follow Jesus. No fences, no filters, just three women chasing after truth, beauty, and the wild, untamable cry. We are so glad that you've joined us today.

SPEAKER_03 0:35

All right. Well, today we want to talk about Leviticus because we all uh have issues. We love it so much. We love Leviticus so much. Well, because it's a book that people, I don't know, people throw verses out from Leviticus. They use Leviticus as an example of like why they don't study the Bible or whatever. Um, and so like it's I think you know, like why don't we just launch into the deep end and talk about Leviticus?

SPEAKER_01 1:02

We're starting with something easy. Yeah, easy.

SPEAKER_03 1:05

Right. So let's start with like each of us take a turn and we'll talk about like describe what your what your sort of overarching approach or your global approach is to any book of the Bible, and then how that impacts your understanding of Leviticus. And how about if we start with uh Julie?

SPEAKER_01 1:28

Okay, so I was raised. I was raised um in a very conservative church, strong Bible teaching church. Uh, you know, expected us to study for ourselves and that kind of thing. Um, and I knew a lot of stories as a Sunday school kid. I knew all about David and I knew about Paul, I knew, you know, all the things, creation, and uh, but I didn't get, and I hope I'm not gonna sound super ignorant, but I didn't get that it's all connected, that it's actually one big story. And it didn't occur to me, I'm telling you, maybe in my early 30s, because I was a Christian school teacher and I was teaching those stories, and then one day, I don't even know, God hit me over the head and said, No, this is this all matters. This is part of the this is the big story. The big story is um bringing people to eternal life. And and so and so I started looking at everything I knew differently, and so that to me, when I see a book of the Bible, I see, okay, how does this fit in with the story? And that's where I that's my starting place.

SPEAKER_03 2:42

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 2:43

How does that impact your understanding of Leviticus then when you come to a well, you know, you have to look at the main story and what God is doing, He's chosen his people, Israel, and He's saying, I'm gonna have you be a nation of king of priests. So because he wants to use Israel to bring the rest of the nations to him. And so that's what that's what the whole thing is. So you have to look and say, well, what was the purpose of those rules? Because there's it's not just Ten Commandments, there's 613 rules, and then later on in history, the Pharisees invented a whole lot more, what we call now, not called the Mishnah, the oral law. And so there is my one of my seminary professors had a um a book, the Mishnah, and it was like this thick, it was like bigger than West Bubster's dictionary. Oh, you have one?

SPEAKER_05 3:36

Yeah, that's right.

SPEAKER_01 3:37

We were on the second floor, and he dropped the book and it hit the floor, boom, and the whole room shook. And he said, uh that's what when you know, when the Pharisees were criticizing Jesus, it was not about uh the law, but it was about things that the Pharisees wrote so that people could keep from disobeying the law. So it was kind of putting a fence around it for them, and so anyway, but so but those laws they were there for a reason, and they were to set uh apart uh the people of Israel. So and we can talk about later, but um, so that's how I look at any of those law things. I say he's just setting them apart because their responsibility is to bring people to God.

SPEAKER_03 4:23

Great, yeah, that's a great phrase from Leviticus, set apart. So, how about you, Stacy?

SPEAKER_04 4:29

Well, okay, so when I approach scripture, I see it as Jewish meditation literature, all of it. And they are always asking the question, how then shall we live? And so, whatever book I'm reading, I approach it that way. How then shall we live? Of course, I believe it is God's holy word, but I know it's not written to me, but it's written for me. And so in each book I read, I say, okay, what about this is applicable for me and this culture and um in my walk with Jesus? And that's how I approach scripture. And for Leviticus, I see it as a book of grace because you know, a lot of people focus on the the laws and what the do's and the don'ts. I see it as a book of grace because it's God bringing heaven to earth, and how can a sinful people um approach a holy God? And he gave us a way to do it, and it it's actually loving and and kind. And so that's how I see Leviticus.

SPEAKER_03 5:42

All right. So that idea that this was his way, like he wants us to approach him, even though like this seems Leviticus seems really burdensome, all right. But the whole message is he wants us to approach him.

SPEAKER_04 5:55

Yeah, yeah. So how how does a sinful people go and to a holy God? And well, this is it. This is the priestly tech book of how to do that. The priestly tech book.

SPEAKER_03 6:10

Yeah, yeah. Oh, that's great, that's good. Well, you know, so I um I resonate with both of you guys, and I like I approach, I always approach all of scripture, first of all, like it's God's word. So I'm a big, you know, and I'm sure you guys are too, a big inerrancy girl. I believe like we have God's word. This is and and if there's um if there I there are definitely sections that are very hard to understand, but then I believe that that's something that the Lord wants me to work through. And then, you know, that I if I don't understand it, then that's you know, it is possible to understand it, but I need to work through that. I might need to get a better teacher, go to a great reference, look at the original language, whatever. Look at the context or the culture.

SPEAKER_01 6:58

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 6:59

But that's so that's I approach it from that perspective. Um, I want to look at what section of the Bible it's from. So, you know, like I know you guys do this too. Is it, you know, poetry? Is it you know, is it meant to be, is it prophecy, is it history? What is it? You know, like where is it from? Who wrote it, and who were they writing to? So my first question is always like, what would this have meant to the people that it was directly delivered to at the time? How would they have understood it? But then I do believe that there, you know, then for me, I'm always looking at the connection with Christ, just like Julie said, you know, like it's all one piece. It all, you know, the Old Testament looks forward to Christ and the New Testament looks back to the cross to to Christ. And obviously the gospels are sort of that in between of when he was with us. So, you know, that like those are sort of my overarching kind of ideas. So when I come to Leviticus and I think, okay, it's Old Testament, that doesn't mean that it's not relevant to me and it's looking forward to Christ. Um, it's it's in the um book of the law, it's in the one of the five books of the law. So Moses wrote it, you know, most of it, and it would have been written to deliver to the Jews the time. Um, and so it was like that's the context of this, not Moses, yeah, Moses. It would have been that would have been the context of it. And then, you know, and then it's also I'm also gonna be looking for Jesus as the fulfillment of it. Yes, because it's old testament law, I'm not gonna assume that I have to do all of it. Right. Like I'm gonna think, like, what is this now? Jesus is the fulfillment of this law, how did he fulfill it? And what does that look like in my life?

SPEAKER_04 8:45

So what's that look like under grace?

SPEAKER_03 8:47

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, like for for instance, like when I um when I was reading through Leviticus to prepare for this, I have a book by um what's her name? Nancy Guthrie, um, and where she covers um Access, Leviticus, and Numbers. And I think you should just spend a short time on the on Leviticus, but one of the things she points out is that all of the offerings at the beginning, that they point to all different ways, like Jesus fulfilled all of those offerings. So that helped me to understand. Like, I'm reading through all this stuff, it's like grain offering and pizza offering and this. But she like she, you know, has great insight into like, look, this Jesus fulfilled all of these offerings. This was, you know, this gives us a picture of Jesus. So that you know, that's one example of you know how I can like look at it and not get bogged down and like, okay, like I don't have to offer these offerings anymore. That's done. Jesus, what Jesus offering on the cross was it for all time. But now, like, okay, so where is Jesus in this?

SPEAKER_01 9:52

Yeah, yeah, that's so important. And because that's really the climax of everything is when Jesus came and and lived among us and then um died and was risen again, and that that's the big kahuna. That's the car, you know, the shining part of it, the highlighted part. But um, I I uh teach, have been teaching at um a nonprofit up in Baltimore called The Well, and um it's for women, and uh I it's a Bible study. And and so one of the women asked me as we were ending something else, can you explain like how the Old Testament fits in with everything? And and um, you know, do we are we even supposed to read it, you know, because Jesus came. And I said, Yes. So I did a short series for them, it was a couple weeks long. Jesus in the Old Testament. I was bowled over with how many things there's either, well, first of all, there's prophecy, which told a whole lot about him before he ever showed up, thousands of years before he ever showed up. And then you've got these pictures, these uh people's lives that absolutely you can make a column and and and two columns, and then put that person's life again up against Jesus, and you can see here's a great example Isaac being offered um on the mountain by Abraham, and you know, and and he was gonna be the sacrifice, the only son, you know, and so uh that kind of thing, and there's it is everywhere, and Jesus actually treat quoted a lot of the old testament when he was talking about himself, he was fulfilling those things, yeah. And so it's it's so great. I mean, all those things. So he is in there, and if we're just looking for him, it's shocking how much it's in there.

SPEAKER_04 11:47

Yeah, and I'm when I read though, I yes, I see the fulfillment of Jesus and everything, but I focus on what would these people be thinking right in this culture? Why are they getting these rules? And I try to focus with those um Eastern eyes, those ancient Eastern eyes, because then I can extrapolate out into today what's being, you know, how it applies to me. So when I read it, I don't always look at it with okay, Jesus fulfilled this, Jesus fulfilled this. I look at it what is being said right now and learn from that as instead of just always looking for the Jesus in it. You can find it, it's there, obviously it's there. But I want to know why did God say it this way right then? And then how does that apply to me? Which, like I said, it's not written to me, but I can get from it. Right.

SPEAKER_03 12:44

No, I like that because it helps to um, you know, there's a time for like what Julie did for looking at like where is Jesus and all this, but like especially when you're coming to it after a while or for the first time, it's it's too um, it's too risky to like be looking for something. You want to let the passage sit. Speak and yeah, let it speak to you rather than speaking into it. It is really easy to, you know, like I could do that on any given day. Oh, let me find six scriptures to defend my point of view. Exactly. Like we all can that's where we sort of get into trouble on Facebook.

SPEAKER_04 13:25

Yes, like one out of whipping scriptures out and whipping them at each other, and that's yeah, that's a really dangerous way to study the Bible, and you can do that with Leviticus, you can rip out eight um 1822 and say, look at the Bible says this, and you know, then someone can whip out well, it says this. Right. But what was it saying in that original language at that time and why? Yeah, you know, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 13:51

Well, because I was like, I was tempted to do that already because I'm looking at like, look, they're in Leviticus, it says, Love your neighbor as yourself. It says that in Leviticus. That's great, you know. So I wanna like, because I love the Lord, and sometimes I wanna like be his PR person, even though he reminds me that he doesn't need one. Yeah. Um like so, you know, me, I'm like, oh, did you know that? I wanna highlight that, and then I want to ignore the fact that it talks about, you know, like you can take this person as a slave. Like, right, like let's like maybe I won't mention that. Maybe I won't, you know, like uh that doesn't support necessarily my pitch for God. So I want to um skip over that verse, and and so it's you know, it's tempting to go either way with a book like Leviticus and emphasize too much. Or I you know, I I do think that that's um it's something to beware of that we all do it and then and then just to be honest about it. There are times when you can say, hey, honestly, what I want is for you to like Leviticus because I care about God and I've accepted Leviticus. Yeah and and instead I feel like we should be like, hey, you know, like like like right now, like what are for for you, like what are what's an easy answer for you in Leviticus? Like what is what is Leviticus an easy value that you see to Leviticus? And then what's an aspect that challenges you about Leviticus? How about a phone? Stacy starts this time.

SPEAKER_04 15:24

Um, the easy point or the easy part of it that I can accept is the holiness of God. Easy peasy, I can accept that, and how he put into motion um how we can approach him. I can I can accept that. Now I can't, I have a really hard time, I'm gonna admit it, with the Leviticus 18 and 20 about people using verses to say to talk about homosexuality, that kind of stuff. That bothers me. And I have to struggle with those things because at first read in English, you you struggle with it going, oh, you know. So that's what I have a part, I have a problem with, and I have to struggle with God and go into the original languages, work it out. But for somebody that doesn't know how to do that, you can just read it at first blush and think, oh, God's me, you know. So I have I have a hard time and struggle with God on that. But when I do struggle and not understand something, I approach it as um God thinks the best of me all the time. I'm gonna give him that same grace and think the best of him. So when I don't understand, I remind myself who is God? Always good, always loving, always merciful, always holy, always everything, all these things. So, in this verse that I don't understand, I'm gonna believe that about him too. And so then that's my jumping off point for struggling with God on those things.

SPEAKER_01 17:10

So that's where we're a good place to start, Stacey.

SPEAKER_03 17:13

Well, I know I'm gonna push back a little bit like that with the original language piece. Like many people know how to go to the original language, right? But still end up in a different, still end up in different spaces about particular verses. So they know what you're saying, that it that that for you it's it it you go back to the original language and you see it in a way that redefines what the English says. Some people don't, so you know it's not just an original language, exactly.

SPEAKER_04 17:46

And then and when I respect that. If someone comes up with a different answer to what they're struggling with with God, I respect that because I don't know everything, I can't know everything, and so I honor them in that. Like we'll come up, all three of us will come up with something different on something, and I'll great, I respect that in you. So um it's important that we honor each other in our studies, in our struggle, and say, Yeah, I understand that struggle too. And here's where I came out on it, right? And I respect where you did.

SPEAKER_03 18:27

Yeah, that's funny. That's I think it's funny that in um like it tells you a lot about Leviticus that for you, his holiness is the easy part. When you said, Oh, God's holiness is the easy part for me, like, wow, wow, it's a tough book.

SPEAKER_04 18:44

Well, he yeah, it's a tough book, but if you look at it, and that's why I come at it with it's a book of grace that a holy God wants these people that he loves so much that he just went into covenant with, they're all like, yay, we want to do it, and immediately break covenant, and then immediately God puts into effect how you can approach him, even though they just broke covenant. And so I just it's a book of love and grace of like, come people, come. I want you here.

SPEAKER_05 19:18

Yeah, it's great.

SPEAKER_01 19:19

So, one of the things that I really love about reading Leviticus is the parts where he is being a champion for um the poor and the oppressed. And uh, you know, it it's amazing. Um, I I uh one of the things I really appreciated was when I was doing a message on divorce, and I started looking through what the law had to say about divorce, and there was a section in chapter 24 that um about a woman, and that uh if if a man divorced her and she marries somebody else and then that guy dies, now she's got she owns stuff. And if that man goes and wants to remarry her, no, he's not allowed because he already divorced her, and that's not gonna happen because he's not you know not a good person. Yeah, she should be able to keep control of what's hers. And so that to me, it's it's amazing because you know he was taking care of a woman standing, and and he does it all over the place. Uh uh, there's verses about, you know, if you're out in the fields and you're gleaning, leave stuff for the poor people behind you. And of course, the whole story of Ruth is based on that law. And so it's just I I just love that he takes care of the oppressed, he's the champion for them, and he put laws in place so that uh the people would not be tempted to take advantage of anybody because to know that he does uh uh care for them and expects his nation, who's supposed to be wholly like him, um, to do the same. So I love that. What was challenging to me, uh, is challenging to me, is the harsh punishment that is uh assigned to things. No, okay, so somebody murders somebody, uh stone them. Okay, and I thought, well, okay, I can live with that. Um I'm I don't know what I think about capital punishment, haven't crossed that one yet. But um, but they're adultery, stone them. Um idolatry, I again I could picture that because no, uh, blasphemy, witchcraft, homosexuality, and Sabbath breaking. And so, you know, some of them you're just like, really stone them, you know, because they're I mean, they're all sinful things that he's talking about, but stone them, right? It feels like it's just part or the the deed that's been committed. So uh seems cruel, seems unjust, really, you know. But again, like you, Stacy, I know that God is a God of justice, He loves justice, and so whatever He's doing. Doing, he's doing that from that position. And um, so you have to kind of look past the immediate and say, well, how does this add to the big picture of what he's doing with the law? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 22:12

Yeah. I mean, it's it's a fair thing to say now that we live under grace. Whoa, that's that's rough. And then that's why I like to go back. Why was it written and said the way it was? Because it was in that culture, and that's what they understood at that time, you know. So that's what he was working with in a system that they understood of um, you know, where stonings did happen, that kind of stuff. And he worked his way, his he started there and then brought them through to another way.

SPEAKER_01 22:47

So that's right, and yeah, the pagan nations around them, they all didn't blink twice at the gods that they you know worshipped. And he was setting he was setting them apart. I'm different, you'll have no other gods besides me, right? And each of the commandments, no, you know, some of your gods will in your stories lie, cheat, whatever, adultery. That's not me, you know. You're not representing me, you don't do that stuff. And I I just love that, you know, he's trying to get them to be in a place where they will be so different from their surrounding nations that people will say, Hey, I want what they have. Like, yeah, you know, it makes more sense. And you see people like that in the old testament, Gentiles um who just admire God and want to want to be him rather than and they would actually convert, right? To do so anyway, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 23:43

I think that that's um that's where when people, you know, like it like it that struck me too, though like how many, you know, like cursing your parents. Oh, you know, like stone them. Uh that, you know, like that's okay, you know, like not that I'm about cursing parents, you know, like no, you know, that's not a good thing, but wow, stoning, okay. Um, but like I think that we forget, we're so steeped in our culture, like what Stacey said, like that we are come from this time period. We don't realize how much our value of life and our ideas about justice have been formed by Christian, you know, from Old Testament to the New So Judeo Christian ethics, and that at that time life was cheap, and that people were just killed as a matter of fact, and there was no recourse, and there were no rules about it, and you could in other cultures at the time, you could just take a life, and people were like, So what? Like, there's another woman over there, just get another woman, like have more kids, like, yeah, sacrifice that one and have some more. And so, like, uh, you know, because I know that you know, I've heard people say, like, you know, like, you know, well, I'm a medium, so I would be stoned back then, or I, you know, I cursed my parents, I would be stoned. Okay, like, but you're not back then, but you're not there, yeah. You're living now, and and a holy God chose for you to live now. So I, you know, like be glad, like you know, so like I think that that whole understanding, that's why it's hard to have short conversations about something like Leviticus, because like even the time that we're gonna spend on it, it's it doesn't do justice. Like we're all coming to it from a whole Bible approach. We have a big understanding of God. We we've like all three of us have read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation a couple of times, and so we have a whole set of context that we have, you know. For me, um, one of the things I love about Leviticus is um, and so we have a God who wove celebration into our lives, right? Feasts and celebration. We don't talk about that enough that we have a God who is like rejoice, celebrate, take breaks, take a Sabbath year, take a year of Jubilee, take Sabbath day, take a day of rest, take a day, yeah. That's our God. Like, hey, sit down, eat matra, matra, right? Like that's our God, and I love that. Um, but then it, you know, there are um I can read through Leviticus as I read through, I was like, oh, I like that, I like that. Oh, like then, you know, then you come up on those verses that you can't just get away from, you know, like so the slavery thing was big for me because I thought about like what are my brothers and sisters who have you know ancestors who were actually enslaved in America, how do they process these verses? Um, and you know, like and I know, like I come to it with a whole context about understanding the economy of the day and and what slavery was about in that time period. But I like I I don't want to just like quickly leap there and forget that that people I love will look at that and and see it, you know, and it was abused in our country. Those verses were abused and used against people, and and it's there and and it's easy to use it against people, like they ignored you know, like the protections that were put in place for slaves and just used that kind of stuff. And our the slavery that was in America was a completely different um story than the economics that was in place at that time. So, you know, so that is, you know, like and I you know, so I don't wanna I don't like glossing over stuff like well, like we know this, this, this, we don't have to worry about that. Like, well, no, like no, it's still good to spend time on it and wrestle with it and struggle with it, right?

SPEAKER_04 27:50

Because this affects people, you know, people are actually affected by reading this, and yes, it's important to talk with them about it and say, Yeah, I get it, this is rough, you know, and let them speak about it because they have a perspective I don't have, and I can never understand. So you we have to let them talk about it. And I hate when people say, Well, slavery it back then was more like being an indentured servant. It's awful too. Stop it. Anybody somebody else, you know, for profit or power is awful. Let's talk about that and why it's in this book. Can we see that there is a God that met them where they were and it wasn't a good place, but took them out of it, eventually brought them out of it. So, yeah, that's a struggle. I get it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 28:47

What's a respectable approach when you're discussing isolated verses with, you know, say someone that you just, you know, someone in the that comes from a different perspective as a Christian, and also from someone who is completely outside of a biblical worldview, completely, you know, it's not part of our faith at all. But that, you know, like I think most of the discussions about Litovicus, the Leviticus, we're not having these wholesale discussions about it as a book. Right. People are whipping out verses and like, oh, like, like, do you, you know, are you worried about mixing your clothes? You know, your best for your clothes, or you know, like there, it's those kind of verses that come up, you know, like, well, I you know, I'm a medium and I would be stoned. Do you think I should be dead? What do you think are some ways to approach that with people who, you know, when you're having conversations like that? Like, let's even say offline, because first, first of all, I feel like social media is not the best place to have productive conversations. So let's take it offline and just like someone, you know, like in your world that either differs with you or they're or they're confused about it, or they come, they don't come from our faith, and they just know this is in there.

SPEAKER_01 30:03

Yeah. You know, I'm just thinking we really do need to add the peace that the New Testament gives us about the law. And um, and Jesus uh talked about it, and Paul did a great deal. He actually wrote a whole book on it. It's called Galatians, and it was a letter, an epistle to the people there were uh Greeks or non-Jews, and um, and and some of them were saying we we gotta we gotta obey all the laws, and Paul said that's not what it was there for. Um, because you know he he says, Um find it here, I have it written down. I have it written down, um but he talks about the the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith. And I think part of the law was showing people you're not gonna make it. You know, as hard as it, you know, 600, it's always 613 rules. I'm a former school teacher, and every year at the beginning of the year, we would do um uh the the rules of the classroom, and I only have five, five rules. You'd think they could obey five, right? So we'd go through each of the rules, talk about it, what what when would you see something like that, and that kind of thing. And I and I told them, I said, if we if we kept those rules and we did that, is that a classroom you'd like to be a part of? Raise your hand if that you wish our class was like that, every hand up, because they could see the beauty of it, right? Be respectful. There goes bullying, there goes, you know, whatever, and um, but they couldn't keep them by the first week. Five rules. Well, you know, so God gave them 613, which is a bit more, and um, but they tried, uh, but the problem was is that it wasn't at least later on in life, it wasn't um in in the life of the nation, it wasn't a thing where um people were coming from their heart, they were doing it to fulfill something that would, you know, make them acceptable to God, but they were mixing all kinds of crazy things in with it. Yeah, oh yeah, we we're we worship God, but they also worshiped Baal and you know all these different gods. Yeah, and God is saying, No, no, you know, and and he even said to Isaiah, these people are giving me lip service with their mouth, they're praising me, but their hearts are far from me. So there's that whole part, and Jesus absolutely pointed that out with the Sermon on the Mount, you know, he kind of gave a new understanding of the law. You know, you say eye for eye, tooth for tooth. Well, you know, and and this is what it really means, right? So, and and I think Jesus was extending the laws to something bigger. And Paul says it was a it was here as a tutor to make us understand that we're sinners and we can't get there on our own. We will fail.

SPEAKER_03 32:59

Yeah, it's almost like like I'm uh uh two two of my teenage grandsons share our home, their family lives here, and like I can see one of them like getting angry and saying, you know, like I could run this household. And you know, like one of us might even say, Hey, you know what, you got it for a week. And we would like list like here's all the things you've got to do. And I feel like in some ways that was got that's what God did. Like, oh, you can be, you can approach me, you can be holy here. Here's what it takes, here's what it takes holy. Like, go ahead, give it a try. And you know, often like we like because even in uh in Leviticus, it does, he does list the like here's all the things you'll get if you follow, if you obey these laws. You know, I all these things I promise you, if you obey these laws, and here's all the bad things that'll happen if you don't. And and so it's sort of like like that answers the question for all of us knuckleheads who go, like, I don't understand if God just gave me everything when I asked for it or when I behaved, if he just gave me, then like we would all do it. But like, here's the proof that like we wouldn't. Like, here's this people that had that deal and they couldn't keep it, right?

SPEAKER_04 34:14

Immediately, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 34:16

So I think that it's you know, like it it's a huge, like it's almost like we had to go through that as a as you know, humanity had to see that played out and to understand, like, no, we can't, not one of us, not one of us can cut this, and so that's why we need Jesus, right?

SPEAKER_04 34:36

Yeah, and like I said, it's Jewish meditation literature, so they meditate on that, like, okay, why can't we cut it? Why, you know, why is this happening? Why are we rebelling? Why is God saying this? Why, why, how then shall we live? And I think it's funny. I have a friend um who texts me questions about the Bible all the time, and she got to this one in Chronicles or something, and she goes, They are desecrating the temple, you know, all this kind of stuff. And oh, does God put up with that? I can't believe He put He He puts up with this behavior. And I said, And sometimes He doesn't, and then we get mad at him when he when he punishes us, you know, so we get all upset about you know how people behave, but then when God, you know, gives the discipline, we get upset.

SPEAKER_03 35:29

Yeah. But it's so when we're like when you when someone you're sitting with someone and they, you know, they pull out and they say, Well, look, this is you know, it looks to me like God's approving of slavery, or it looks to me like God would just kill me for just being mad at my parents, or you know, what's the deal with all, you know, like I would be unclean, you know, like what was it? Rachel Held Evans who tried to live the Old Testament for a year, and it was like all this stuff about the uncleanness during her period and stuff to be like, so it just you know, like if you pull those aspects out and and they're throwing them at, you know, at you in a conversation, like where's your starting point with anybody that's coming from that perspective? Whereas because some like Christians will say that this to me when they're saying, This is why I don't study the old testament. So I feel like the old testament, we just need to like throw it out. I'm a New Testament Christian, and people who aren't Christians throw those out because they, you know, they've heard this stuff or they heard it badly in a church that talked about it badly and they're justifying why, you know, like this is why I can't follow God.

SPEAKER_04 36:37

So, what's the starting place when they're done with their rant for a believer if they follow Jesus and they want to be part of this the way, you know, I would point out the grace we live under grace now. And so I would point out, yeah, that's that's rough to deal with those kind of things. But let's look at why God did that and where we're at now, you know. Um, for being a meat, say you brought up medium a couple times, you know, you say you're a medium. Well, why? Why is that not, you know, something that God would want you to do? And I would talk about the different reasons why, and not the but how that affects you as a person, okay? How that separates you from trusting God and being, you know, that kind of thing. If it's a person that doesn't believe, it hasn't bought into wanting to be a part of this and follow it. I I would not expect them to. You know, so yeah, you don't want okay, I get it. But let me tell you why I believe this and let me show you the love in it and what God is doing in it, and and why that affects. And so there's some things in this Leviticus thing that you're pulling out of this book that don't affect us. Okay. So, no, you're not gonna be stoned to death. No, you know, because we live under grace now, and Jesus taught us a different way to live.

SPEAKER_03 38:09

If we approach everything that's not a salvation issue with humility, you know, that that's gonna go a long way. And like honest humility in our hearts. And I think that that's a good model when we're talking to anybody, is to like not be so interested in in sharing our answer or in showing someone how they're wrong, but like to take a moment to sort of set, like, well, let's, you know, it might be words like let's make sure we know that that's what it really says. Or, you know, like, or let's make sure, like, so I just want to make sure you understand, I love you and God loves you.

SPEAKER_05 38:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 38:47

Like, like the like if a medium's saying that to, you know, like, oh, like, like, wow, it sounds like it really bothers you, the idea that God would want you dead. And like, you know, so talk to me a little bit more about that, right? So, like to really take care of the person first and yes create a safe space before then we begin to talk about, you know, like, oh, this is everything that I know, which like I don't necessarily think we should, you know, be the come from that perspective anyway, but too many like I jump, I want to jump in there all the time with like, no, no, I know the right answer. And instead, I need to like sit back, just create a nice answer.

SPEAKER_04 39:26

Yeah, that's really good. We should all be able to do that and come at it as like the whole person that God loves that whole person, you know. Um, and give them the grace to talk and draw it out of them as why it's bothering them. You know, I I like to say you're not getting Jesus never said that you're going to heaven with the right theology, you know. People are, you know, are gonna go get there thinking different things. So what? If we can just get to the so what of it all, so you believe that, I believe this, so what? But like you said, a salvation issue, and I don't even freak out about that because I I believe God draws who he draws, and you know, it is what it is, and God's in charge. Okay, so I just I don't even freak out about that and say you're not going to heaven. I'm sh whatever. I'm not doing that.

SPEAKER_01 40:25

Yeah, I think that the art of asking questions is something that we should really because that Jesus was a rabbi, and that's how they talk, they talk through questions, and you know, you can ask the right kinds of questions and and help bring them forward a little bit, you know, and be praying the whole time that the Holy Spirit will guide your words so it won't be offensive, but yet uh give truth because we want the truth, right? We all do, and so but I I think that questioning is a great thing, and you know, I I I I came uh my book came out a few years ago about the the scriptures that are about um women in the New Testament, and um, and so uh I had a friend, college friend, who who uh told me uh she she wrote me and said, uh, you and I do not have the same opinion about women and if whether there should be limitations on women or not. And I said, Yeah, that's true. I believe that. But but she said, so you know, and and I said, Well, did you read the book? And she said, Well, no, but I I I read the back cover and I could tell I'm not gonna like it. And I said, Well, can I challenge you just to maybe read a chapter or two and see where I'm coming from? Um, I think there's more freedom in there than you think, and um, but and I asked her, like, what what part is it, you know, what part are you really objecting to and that kind of thing, and said, and listen, by the way, we can agree to disagree on this. Yeah, it's not a salvation issue, and you know what? I I'll, you know, let's let's just pray that God brings us to common ground. But it hasn't affected our friendship, which was great. But questions. People don't ask if she had said what what are you trying to do with this book? I gladly would have told her, but I didn't get a chance because I'd been prejudged, and that's frustrating, you know. But yeah, I ask questions, she asks questions, and we can come to an understanding together.

SPEAKER_03 42:29

So well, I think that's a great place for us to wind up. I have a feeling we'll revisit Leviticus at some point and more specifics, but um to I like I always recommend, like before you answer anything as a believer, to ask at least one question. And so to ask, you know, like what, you know, why does this matter to you? Why is this so important to you? Or to ask someone, you know, even to say this is a statement, but it acts as a question. Tell me more about what you're thinking about that. Um, those are two great ways to continue conversation and get a little more information before you jump into a yes and answer. But like, I don't, you guys have been, this has been a great conversation. Leviticus has a lot to it. I sort of now want to write a whole book about it, but um, my first, my first. Like that's where we're gonna come every time.

SPEAKER_02 43:19

But all right, thanks so much. Yay. You have been listening to Three Chicks and a Bible. Don't stop now. Keep asking the hard question. Check out our website at threechicksandabible.com where you can respond to this episode, find out more about the three chicks, and submit questions for a future episode. Subscribe to our show from anywhere you get your podcasts. As always, thank you for stopping by.