Why is it so hard to talk about Jesus?

No one in history has been more controversial than Jesus.

From His birth to His resurrection and ascension, Jesus didn’t just inspire—He offended. Scripture even says the cross is an offense. But why? What did Jesus say and do that made religious leaders want Him dead? Why did everyday people cry out for His crucifixion?

And if Jesus is the center of Christianity, why is there still so much disagreement about who He really is—even among Christians today?
In this episode, the Three Chicks dig into the tension, misunderstandings, and uncomfortable truths surrounding Jesus. Where did our mixed messages about Him come from? And beneath all the noise, traditions, and debates… who is the authentic Jesus?

Join the conversation and rediscover the Jesus who challenged power, disrupted religion, and still demands a response today.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:05

Welcome to Three Chicks in the Bible, where we ditch the easy answers, roll up our sleeves, and wrestle with the hard stuff in Scripture. We're talking about the real questions, the messy parts, and what it looks like to follow Jesus. No fences, no filters, just three women chasing after truth, beauty, and the wild, untamable Christ. We are so glad that you've joined us today.

SPEAKER_05 0:36

All right, so today we're talking about why is it so hard to talk about Jesus? And by that, I mean in our culture, our especially so when we talk about our culture, talk about our American Western culture, we are supposed to be able to talk about anything. And for the most part, we do talk about anything. But why is it then so hard to bring Jesus into everyday conversations, especially everyday public conversations? For instance, I noticed that it's fine to pray to God in public, but if you pray in the name of Jesus in public, then things get a little dicey. So yeah. What are your thoughts? Too specific. Like, oh, that God.

SPEAKER_06 1:25

Oh yeah. Yeah, because God can be anything really fine to people. So when you say Jesus, that's like very specific.

SPEAKER_04 1:35

Right.

SPEAKER_06 1:35

You know, I had I had a friend, good friend, who's was when she was dating this guy, she really liked him and kept, you know, giving him the gospel message and talking about Jesus. And she said he would talk all the time. He's very interested, and he would talk, but he never once said the name of Jesus. Ever. And so he started really, and then one day, I don't remember the circumstances, but he finally gave himself to the Lord. And the next time she talked to him, he was talking about Jesus by name. And she thought, it's happened.

SPEAKER_05 2:06

Wow.

SPEAKER_06 2:07

The name is pretty, I know people like that, you know. It's it's that offensive, they don't want to say it.

SPEAKER_01 2:14

Well, it makes you do something with it, you know. It either convicts you or it gives you comfort, but it make you the name makes you do something, you can't just push it off. Like you can with God. Oh, it's a god of whatever. Um, but with Jesus, it's very specific and you have to confront it. So that's why some people aren't super excited to talk about it because you know, I don't know. Can we talk about anything in this culture? We're supposed to be able to, but I don't know anymore if we're allowed to.

SPEAKER_06 2:46

It could just get canceled.

SPEAKER_01 2:48

You might get shot. You know, coming off three days after Charlie Kirk has been assassinated. You might get shot. And it it it makes people take a step back. And I think that's exactly what that was supposed to be. Be careful what you say. If we don't like it, we'll cancel you. We'll do something. And I don't know, can we?

SPEAKER_05 3:12

Well, I mean, I think so. This is how I feel about how we approach this as Christians, because even before Charlie was killed, which was horrible, I feel like a lot of people tell me, oh, I can't talk about that at work. Oh, I can't talk about that with my friends, oh, I can't talk about that. And for me, it's always like, well, you can't talk about that without consequence. Right. You can talk about it. Like, I feel as though uh, as Christians, we've done a lot of self-silencing. Like, I know I have done that, you know, like, oh, I better be careful here or I better be careful there. But like once you start shutting down on different things or in different arenas, it's the it's easier to keep shutting down. Right. And it's hard to like remind yourself, like, no, I like I do have like because when I read, um, I have a Voice of the Martyrs app. So every day I'm reading like a story of a Christian in a persecuted area of the world. Like they keep talking, even when they're sent to prison, even when they're beat up, even when, you know, like they keep talking. So I feel like this is a good time for us to listen to them and you know, to brothers and sisters who are who are living under um governments that are completely hostile to faith, and yet they find a way to speak. So that's you know, like for me, I'm like, all right, I need to learn from them. I really need to be attention right now.

SPEAKER_01 4:44

Right, we do, and and I think we need to practice it because in our culture we have been pretty safe, and now I think we're experiencing what's happening around the world, and it's like, oh, this is what that is, and so now we do need to practice it and be more bold with it, but there are, like you said, going to be consequences, and we have to take that into account because now you know we be martyred for our faith, we have families to that are left behind. It's not just about us anymore. The there's people there that have to pick up the pieces now, so you know, there's this whole balancing act that we have to do with it too. And should we be bold? Absolutely, for ourselves, but what about those that are left behind and the kids? Say you have young kids. So I know we're supposed to be bold, get it, got it, but then there's that human side of us too that need to go, huh? How do I work that out?

SPEAKER_05 5:43

Yeah, well, not just the human side, but wisdom. There's also like you can't just have boldness without wisdom. You do need wisdom too.

SPEAKER_06 5:53

I feel like that we we have attached Jesus to certain cultures, and I think the culture is more offensive than a lot of things. Um, and you know, and and and you know, and you know it's like somebody who's being totally obnoxious at work, and then finally somebody says, you know, you can't, you know, please don't do that anymore. You're making a lot of problems, and they say, I'm being persecuted for Christ. Well, no, right, you're not being cute. No, you're not because you're obnoxious. You're a jerk, yeah. You know, and so Jesus always met people where they were, and he didn't have a speech that he gave them, he he talked with people and heard what their concerns are and and and directly addressed those things. Um, but he wasn't talking about the Roman Empire and those nasty high priests or anything like that. He he stuck to, you know, what their needs were and how he could meet them. And I just feel like when we start talking about you know making culture part of Jesus, yes, it's I mean, it's a turn-off, and it should be because we he we have no business doing that. There's so much to say about him, you know, and and you know, I don't mean to offend people that are like really, you know, against abortion and all that kind of thing, but that's one of those hot button issues that if you attach Jesus to that, that all of a sudden, you know, that makes people who have had abortions unacceptable to him in their minds, and and that kind of thing where you're you're I'm not saying there's no right or wrong because there is, um, but I don't think that attaching him to what we think. Uh here's a good example divorce. When I was a kid and somebody got a divorce, then you know, no, God does not allow you to do anything more. You know, you have committed the sin of all sins, and so that's it. You can't teach Sunday school. I have friends that weren't allowed to go to the mission field because she was divorced, um, and and that kind of thing. And so, you know, you can't be in any kind of leadership position if you're divorced, and so all of a sudden, you know, but but it's it's what what's happened? Does anybody even think about that anymore? Because it was cultural, right? Right? Not to say there's no right or wrong, but what I'm saying is if you attach Jesus to that and think he's the champion of that cause, you think we we need to think twice. Because what his cause is, he's not willing that any should perish.

unknown 8:25

Right.

SPEAKER_06 8:25

So I don't know. I don't know if that's too controversial.

SPEAKER_05 8:28

So, like, well, you've said a bunch of things. No, you've said a bunch of things. So, like, I agree. Like, we don't like I my big thing is we shouldn't let the culture lead the conversation. Yeah, right. So, Jesus, if the culture wants to discuss this hot button issue, like we should only discuss it if that's on God's agenda for us for that day. If that's not just like Jesus, there were times when Jesus did not, he walked away from conversation.

SPEAKER_03 8:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 8:54

And so, like, he he was in consultation with the father at all times. But like, I would I have to push back a little bit. Like, Jesus, you know, with with the rich young ruler, he had no problem telling him, you know, he loved him, and yet he told him the thing he knew was gonna be too much for him to that was gonna be a breaking point. And that young man walked away, and the Lord, you know, like from what we read, he did not go after him. You know, that's the information. So I don't think that Jesus, like this idea that Jesus met everybody where they were, yes and no. Like he, it's not like he um, he didn't say how, you know, like, hi, how can I meet your needs? You know, like he didn't say gee to the woman um caught in adultery. He certainly told those men off because they were hypocrites. He also told her though, don't do it, don't sin anymore. You know, like so like I don't think that he was just all like, hey, you know, what what is your felt need today? And can I, you know, handle, you know, can I help you with that?

SPEAKER_06 10:06

But you're kind of proving what I was trying to say. You say it much better. But um, just uh, you know, he he yes, he met them where they were, but he wasn't man be pinning, he wasn't you know flattering, he wasn't he said what they needed to hear, right?

SPEAKER_01 10:23

And the rich young ruler needed to hear that because he thought he was good, and Jesus like yeah, yeah, but they also didn't go after him and condemn him like some in do today. Like if you do something that isn't in somebody's frame of reference of what Jesus would do, they're gonna condemn you and then they're gonna follow you and they're gonna make you feel like crud, you know, and he didn't do that, and he also didn't stand on the corners and rail against political, right, um political people, even against the um Pharisees and saying he did that to their face, he didn't do that, you know, on Instagram or something like that. He did it to their face, and they knew exactly what he felt, you know.

SPEAKER_06 11:09

So and he was harsh with them because he was trying to wake them up. Yeah, they absolutely did not get it, and so he he spoke in very strong language, which was offensive, but that's what they needed to hear. That's what I meant by that. Put them out, yeah. What what you have to, you know, what do they need to hear to move further into a relationship with him? That's what I'm trying to say.

SPEAKER_01 11:34

But he wasn't a jerk, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 11:36

I mean, I think some of this though, all of the, you know, it's even hard, like we all love each other and trust each other, and it's even hard for us to sort through when we're talking about it. So this sort of fog of war that is prevalent in our culture makes it harder for me to talk to my neighbor about their need for Jesus. Like, not, you know, like not to talk to them about a specific sin, not to talk to them about, but like I start, you know, like I think all of us start clamming up with just, you know, just to share the gospel. And that's the danger point, is that like we have to find the courage to okay, if like if I'm gonna talk to my neighbor about their salvation, about their need for Jesus, about you know, whatever that looks like, however, you know, like I don't usually just sit down with someone and say, Hey, you can walk across the street. So, like whatever that looks like. But if if I'm not prepared for them to say, Yeah, but don't you Christians hate abortion or don't you Christians hate gays or whatever? Like, I still need to have at least enough understanding of what the Bible says so that I can, so I'm not afraid to open the door to talking about Jesus.

SPEAKER_01 12:55

Right. Yeah, you do it in relationship too. You don't just walk up and say, Hey, you know, that you don't you don't know Jesus, you need Jesus. You know, don't just do that. Right, that's okay.

SPEAKER_05 13:08

No, right, of course not, of course not. Yeah, that's what I don't think a lot of us are doing it at all.

SPEAKER_01 13:14

Exactly. We're not. That's an interesting thought.

SPEAKER_06 13:18

I've had so many conversations when I'm just praying the whole way through talking to somebody, Lord, are you giving me an opening? What do you want me to do? You know, I'm trying to be sensitive, and and and the moment passes, and I'm like, I guess you didn't, which is okay.

SPEAKER_05 13:34

Yes, that and see you're being in tune with the Holy Spirit, you're trying to be, right? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:39

Yeah. Do you think that maybe it's because we've been so um indoctrinated, church and state, church and state. So we're like, okay, we're we can't talk about it here, but we can talk about it here, and you know, we we're constantly wondering when it's the right time or when we can do it.

SPEAKER_05 13:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:58

So I wonder if that's part of it.

SPEAKER_05 13:59

Do you know that when I was uh working in a nonprofit, part of our job was to talk, we worked with families in crisis, and part of our job was to talk to families about different areas of their lives. I mean, we were talking about everything, right? Like their drug use or their finances or all the you know, all the things that you don't, you know, sexuality. Um, but we also had to ask them about what their spiritual values were. That was it. What are your spiritual values? Any of my staff who were 35 or younger believed it was illegal for us to ask that about their spiritual values.

SPEAKER_01 14:38

Really?

SPEAKER_05 14:38

Like I had to do trainings, and even then, that you know, there'd be nothing in the report about that. Like, why when did you when are you gonna ask about the spiritual values? I can't. That's illegal. It was talk about indoctrinated, yeah. Like, like you're not talking about church, you're not talking about a specific faith. You're just asking them, they have a right for us to respect their spiritual values, so we have to know what they are. Oh no, I can't.

SPEAKER_02 15:05

Right.

SPEAKER_05 15:07

I mean, so that's what we're that's what we're operating under, but like offense.

SPEAKER_01 15:14

You know, you somebody's gonna be offended. We don't want to offend anybody with anything. Heaven forbid if somebody's offended and we never know what the offense de juror of that day is. So we're constantly walking on eggshells with that. Don't want to be offensive, you don't want to be that offensive Christian, that stereotype, too.

SPEAKER_05 15:33

So, like, what so what do we do? Because I don't know that the answer is to not talk about cheese cream, like to, you know, like I don't think people are gonna be happy if we've not offended them and we haven't shared with them the pathway to eternal life, you know, like that's like that's not cool. I mean, when even when Jesus was born, like the Jewish, he was an issue then, right? I mean, when in in Jesus' time, he was controversial. And so what are some of the what made him controversial then? Because these were the Jews were actually watching for the Messiah, they were actually waiting for him, and here he was, and yet like he was he did not shy away from he was offensive, he was an offense. Why? Like, why was he, you know, why was it even difficult to talk about Jesus when he was here?

SPEAKER_06 16:27

Well, you know, that the the you know the marks they were looking for in the messiah, the the messiah, um, had been given out in the prophets. I mean, you know, Moses started well all the way back to Abraham, but you know, Moses started telling them, you know, there's going to be a prophet like me, greater than me. Listen to him. And from there on, you know, they were waiting for that prophet. The Samaritan woman even said that, you know, we know there's a prophet coming, and he's, you know, from Moses. Um, but anyway, so they were looking for what the prophets said. But the thing is, the prophets were didn't know really what they were uh talking about in terms of how that was gonna look. Peter says that, right? And so, so, but but they they were given uh you know certain words, and and but the problem is is that uh um, well, problem for us, God made it this way, but there were two comings one when he came as a baby and died for our sin. The second will be when he comes back to rule the world and judgment. And so there's two comings, but sometimes they're sandwiched in uh so tightly together, first coming and second coming are in the same sentence. And so they had so what would you do if you had all these like kind of conflicting ideas? Well, they picked out the ones they liked, like the Messiah's gonna get rid of the Romans, and the Messiah's gonna do this, and we're gonna have beautiful crops and you know, peace, lion laying down with the lamb, and you know, and all that stuff. So that's what they were looking for, but he hadn't come for that. That's the second coming, right?

SPEAKER_05 18:07

But the ancient prophecies didn't say I just want to make sure the ancient prophecies didn't say he was gonna get rid of the Romans.

SPEAKER_06 18:12

Well, yeah, oppression. I know I know you threw that in, but like even as I said, I thought that's not gonna go well, but anyway, I didn't specifically say it's okay, it's okay.

SPEAKER_05 18:23

I got you back.

SPEAKER_06 18:24

It's all right, but political, yeah, political oppression, and you know, they wanted to be self-ruling again, and they wanted the messiah to rule them, but so they started off with kind of faulty assumptions, um, because they didn't understand, you know, there would be two comings, and so I for me, I think that that's a lot of the reason. I they also had very personal motives, which one of you probably want to address, but um, you know, there's a lot of reasons they rejected him, but um, but they were basing as a matter of fact. If you remember, when Jesus was in Nazareth and he got up and he read a scripture, and he he he gave the scripture about, you know, in in you know, it's happening now kind of a thing. Right, but he left off the last sentence because that was talking about the next coming, and he closed the book, the scroll, and then everybody was mad at him. Why? Because he didn't finish the prophecy, but he wasn't gonna do that this coming.

SPEAKER_05 19:23

They had some misunderstandings, you're saying, about what it would look like, and they had certain expectations that Jesus wasn't filling, right?

SPEAKER_01 19:31

Mm-hmm. And he rocked them, he they he made them change, or his words affected them, so they had to change, and people aren't comfortable with wanting to do that, and so you know, of course. One they, you know, like Julie said, he wasn't fulfilling what they thought a messiah was supposed to be because the Romans still are here, and then they had a change. Look at the Sermon on the Mount. Blessed are those who mourn. I want to mourn, I don't want to feel blessed because I'm mourning. I want you to fix that. I don't want to mourn, I don't want to have to go through the suffering and the grief to grow me into who you want me to be, you know. So they're like, no, no, that's not comfortable. You're not comfortable.

SPEAKER_05 20:15

Yeah. I mean, I think I do think that also like Jesus was pretty like I think if it was solely that they misunderstood, then Jesus would have fixed the misunderstanding. But like Jesus was pretty clear that some of them trusted in their own righteousness. But they like, so here's someone, here I've come to be to save you, and they're like, we don't need to be saved. What are you talking about? We we're we're set, and you know, like I think that for us is a lot of what we you know, there's a hardness of heart. He called them out on hardness of heart, and that they were, you know, for whatever, you know, we certainly can analyze like contributing factors, so hardness of heart, but they all but that's what you know, yeah. You know, they they and some of it I think they'd been waiting for so long that some of them decided, well, maybe you know, it's not gonna look like that at all. Maybe it's not gonna be a specific person. And they began to love their religion more than they, you know, like we've got a religion, we're all set now. And so when he came, they were like, Well, he's not really coming. Like, in the like, it's not gonna really be a person. We all are, you know, we all find our own way to salvation, or whatever you know, their thinking is. I mean, we can kind of fall into that now when he takes so long to come again. It could be easy for all of us to be like, Well, is he really coming again? Or was that a metaphor for all of us? I don't know, growing up.

SPEAKER_01 21:49

It could be all of those things, all of those things wrapped together depending on the person. Maybe the you know, Pharisees and Sandy, those in the religious power didn't want didn't want. him for one reason the everyday people maybe had other issues with him so it probably depended on that and yeah can't did would he have m cleared up misunderstandings I don't know because he sure tried and people still misunderstood so yeah probably a hardness of heart kind of thing and we have that now too I don't want to change I don't want to go through suffering I don't want to have to deal with my sin and look at it and I was praying for somebody um every morning I pray for somebody and I pray that they see this person as Jesus sees them love this person as Jesus loves them and I thought Stacy are you loving the person like Jesus loves them I have a person in my life that I struggle loving. Are you loving that person that way?

SPEAKER_06 22:56

And it and it convicted me it's like oh so Jesus makes you do that with his words in his life and these people are like I don't know necessarily want to but uh many did I mean look the faith took off but yeah could be why yeah I mean we can't just count like that sin was a factor and them not seeing who Jesus was the oral law which what we call it now it actually got written down and is now the Mishnah and that what they did was uh in the intertestamental period between the Old and the New Testament the Pharisees invented a lot of laws to keep from disobeying the law in Leviticus or whatever Deuteronomy numbers and so they would you know they had all these you know building fence around so you wouldn't even get close to breaking that law but they held those as just as important as mosaic law and whenever you see them criticizing Jesus they're talking about the oral law it's man made it's not from God and so you know and and they were mostly impossible to follow because that you know they did it so they set themselves up to be successful. But you know for the poor shepherds who are out in the fields they're dirty and you know they can't be clean because of what they do for a living and you know well that doesn't say anything about that in the Bible in the Torah. And so anyway the oral law was so important to them and that to me is the religion the rules you have to follow instead of talking about a relationship with God where your heart you love him with all your heart soul mind and strength. And I think Jesus kept trying to get to that but um but that oral law really tripped them up a lot. But Jesus wasn't obeying the oral law sorry you sure you can write that down my my um seminary professor was talking about the oral law and he brought this book in it was I mean like three dictionaries thick and he said this is the oral law now written down and he and we were on a second floor room and he dropped the book and the whole room shook. And I thought wow that's a lot of laws there was over a thousand laws just on how to keep the Sabbath so but you know you get so intricate in all of that stuff you can't win. I mean it was hard enough with 613 laws you know but now they you know so anyway that I think that was part of it too they had their own idea of what righteousness looked like and here's this guy he's ignoring the whole thing and you know not good.

SPEAKER_01 25:39

So yeah we can point a lot of fingers at they they they but what about us we we don't either and we have the scripture and we have many years of teaching and everything and we don't either there's times where we don't want to follow what he has to say as well.

SPEAKER_05 25:58

Why we needed a savior because we can't do it not without him that's a good segue so why do you think there's so much disagreement about Jesus among Christians today like what are some common misunderstandings about Jesus that bother you and um and why do you think those misunderstandings come about well I think it's kind of the same thing you know they had misunderstandings I think it's kind of the same thing we don't want to we don't want to follow what isn't comfortable to us as well.

SPEAKER_01 26:33

So I I think that's kind of human nature what is a misunderstanding I think a big one is that Jesus is American and he's Christian and he's political and um he's fighting a political battle a cultural war and I don't think he's any of those things.

SPEAKER_06 26:52

The one thing that we talked about a lot in call in the seminary was the lordship salvation idea. You know it's Romans 10 you know if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead you'll be saved. And um there are several famous speakers that have said if Jesus isn't Lord of your life in other words you're under his con he's under his control of everything then you're not saved. And so um but I I not about a couple years ago I was looking at that verse because it really drove me crazy because where's grace? Hello and so anyway we can't earn it so what are you talking about? But I so I looked at that verse specifically and Jesus is Lord the word is used in the Greek translation of the old testament called the Septuagint and it's uses that word and it was the word that every time the word Yahweh God's name they inserted the word Lord when they were translating and so I thought and then you look at what the apostles preach believe that he's the son of God and that God raised him from the dead and you will be saved. Right? So it's it's when you're saying Jesus is Lord you're saying Jesus is God he was from God he is God and you know and and all that happened that's what Paul is talking about believing but boy do you get that on a lot of places where you know if you're not obedient even the demons believe which by again taken out of context because what do they believe the Lord our God is one says it right in the verse right in front of it. But people forget that part so I think a lot of problems come with um disagreements and and there'll always be disagreements because we're human but um it comes from taking verses out of context and just you know see I have a verse for this one well what came before what comes after it how is that part of a whole um if we don't do that discipline and really look at a verse you can make the Bible say anything you want and so yeah that that's scary to me you know we never want to put words in God's mouth so but I I think context is a huge thing.

SPEAKER_01 29:11

I mean everybody at church knows that I'm the context girl like what am I gonna say everybody goes context because it's yeah it's true but you know there's not a lot of historical evidence for Jesus the person we have a lot of evidence for Jesus the Christ you know and biblical evidence and stuff and we have a few things about Jesus the man and who he was the man we Josephus mentions him once there's another time he mentions him but they think that that's put in anyway but anyway so there's not a lot of evidence about the man. So because there's this vacuum people will fill it with who he was because of their thoughts oh he's a pacifist oh he's a conservative oh he's this he's that Jesus was never the first coming of Shea Guevara or George Washington or Adam Smith or anybody he he he's not taking that standing we fill him in the vacuum with who we want him to be and so I will tell you who Jesus is but then Lori and Julie might have another idea of who Jesus the man is and so there's all this this difference of opinion and how do we bring all that together and find this unity that Christ calls for so much unity pray for unity within the body how do we do that well I feel like it's it's in the Bible we have what we need um but you we can't have a God of our imagination I heard a famous oh we all do it and you know and I was look listening to this one uh person who was a talk show host very famous talk show host and uh they were talking I don't know I think it was this homosexual issue I don't even remember but she said the God I worship doesn't judge I thought so where'd you get that not from the Bible you know and so you know within you know she she made up this God who she thinks God is and that's who she's going to worship.

SPEAKER_06 31:22

It's almost like carving an idol and say okay that's my God. Yeah God revealed Jesus revealed himself there there's there's plenty of information there if we take the time to look that confirms you know who he was as a man who he was as God it confirms all that I read the gospel of John good grief but but we can't just say well I think he's because we're we're we're made of flesh that's not two people can read the same ver two people can read the same verse and come up with something different.

SPEAKER_01 31:58

I mean there's a Jewish joke about there could be two Jews in a room and three different opinions so you know we can all take something out and say but that's what it means. That's what it means.

SPEAKER_05 32:11

So but but so yes all that's true but we're not hopeless we are not hopeless or helpless because we can read the Bible for ourselves. Yes we can be in a community of believers so that we're not just you know we have some double checking on our thinking so that we're not just making a parent thing and going off we can look at we have 2,000 years of church history to to look at and to and to reason through. So we're not you know like we're not it's not like because I think that sometimes when we say well we you know we all do it and we can all read the same verse you know like okay but then what's what hope is there for someone who's like really trying to figure this out like so is is the real Jesus unknowable? And I would say he's not like because our God wants to be known we have a communicating God. We know that because we have his word we know that because Jesus was here because he is the word he is the living word he wants to be known I think if we come at this with humility and are looking for truth and you know that there are things that we can know for certain you know I know that my Redeemer lives and that I will see him you know in the flesh that that that we know these things. So that's you know some of the I think some of the misunderstandings are because A people do not read their Bible for themselves. They listen to it like right now with the whole you know we're seeing it with Charlie and his death that a lot of it's like people are saying like well I didn't know who he was but I heard he's this this and this okay well I think you shouldn't be commenting right now because you don't like you didn't even know who he was and you just say I heard this and this and this. And that's how people approach Jesus too well I heard like this or I heard that I think that we can come with like honest humility. I'm not like I'm not gonna apologize because I think I like oh I've read this and I see Jesus this way. Like okay correct me like if you think I've got it wrong then please like correct me but like I I think that there are some things that we can know and that um yeah and that but but that's why we live in community with other believers that's why we pray and we try to live out our faith we try to you know like you know because like it's not about earning our salvation but uh but there are there's the disciples did talk about maturing and growing in our faith and increasing in goodness increasing in self-control increasing in certain things like Peter talks about that like if we increase in these qualities we will be effective and fruitful in our faith I see a lot of immature Christians talking all over social media like in social media is not the greatest place to have a spiritual conversation I will say that in any conversation to have like a deep conversation about Jesus. But like there's a lot of immaturity there are you know we have to admit there are public Christians who aren't Christians. It's not my job to figure out which is which but you got to know that part of the public church is not actually following Jesus. Right. So there are you know there's a lot of stuff floating out there but he's not unknowable.

SPEAKER_01 35:46

He's not unknowable and I totally agree we have the hope all that everything you say I think the main thing that I really love that you said is we have to do it in humility and knowing that we could be wrong about something and being able to accept oh I was wrong about Jesus instead of this is who he is this is who he is saying oh maybe there is something else that I wasn't aware of that's part of growing too and so that you know how do we do this I brought that question up how do we do this in unity I think right there is how we do it with humility and always questioning why why was it like this and not believing everything we think we have the Holy Spirit in common and we uh and we have God's word in common and we have our understanding of salvation in common and so there's things there that that you know are pretty fundamental.

SPEAKER_05 36:50

It's a good foundation um so but you know even you know any group is like you say three opinions with two people in the room any group's gonna have you know dissension and and stuff but but what did Jesus pray for for us unity let them be unified so that people will know they're from me yes yeah the early church was super diverse yes like the early church was we still had wild no but that's what I'm saying like we act like we're the most diverse yes group but like the early church was the it was incredibly diverse people from all kinds of backgrounds all kinds you know like you know all kinds of places and they found ways like I love like the Jerusalem council to really hash out with each other to be willing to have conversations to be willing to to air their differences not just like well I'm gonna take my differences and go over here and state my group I mean some of that happened later on but they worked through look like how do we you know what do we believe and then now what is what now what are we going to teach as one that you know so that I think that gives us hope because that's that's was you know they were working with not Western Americans but a diverse group of people you know my my son told uh Steve and I my husband and I that um you know he wants to have a marriage just like we have and um at the time he was away from the Lord and not really interested in you know participating in anything of a spiritual nature but you know we said to him well thank you that's a nice compliment but I got to tell you something it's impossible without the Lord because when you have the Lord supernaturally the Holy Spirit can get you to the point where you can accept the differences and still love and um and and not let it be a make or break thing.

SPEAKER_06 38:58

But if you don't have the Lord that power isn't there. And so for me knowing the Lord and and knowing that my husband is loved by the Lord more than me even and so you know and I just have to say this is God's person. And so you know we have to give room to not agree on things.

SPEAKER_05 39:19

Yeah you know so what's a final thought you want to share about what you authentically believe about Jesus.

SPEAKER_06 39:30

So I was speaking at this uh Christmas luncheon great big thing and um it's beautiful it was a Christmas tea you know speaking about Jesus being the light of the world and so afterwards they're starting to put away all the chairs and tables and everything somebody came up to me with this woman who was weeping and she said can you talk to her I said okay and and so we went and found a stairwell where it wasn't quite so noisy with all that was going on and I said well how can how can I help you? What are you thinking? Why are you crying you know and she said well she said you know I was raised in a certain religion which was not Christianity and she said um and and um my whole life is falling apart my husband just left me my son and I are trying to figure out how are we going to even live you know if I can afford to live and all this stuff she said my whole world has crumbled and you're talking about Jesus being the light of the world I have one question for you how do you know it's true and so I said well first of all I do believe with my heart all my heart it is true. I said but what really convinced me was how it the gospel changed people's lives. You know you've got Paul who's or Saul at the time was running around murdering putting Christians in jail and then he turned around and now he's the persecuted because he feels so strongly about Jesus being true. And you've got the disciples trembling in the upper room doors are locked and then once they saw the resurrected Jesus they're out a couple days later at Pentecost preaching in the temple the very place where they would be seen by their enemies and um and did it you know without fear and they were pulled in front of of you know high high authorities and they said look we we can't not say it because it's true. And then you know so all these change lives where you see you know somebody just flip around and it it wasn't anything they did it's because they have the Holy Spirit and they're a new creation and you I've got family that just became Christian not too long ago and I'm telling you night and day. Yeah you know and we're not talking about moral behavior we're talking about like life changing heart changing you know kind of a thing. So how do I know it's real? Because I've seen it work in many people's lives and I know it worked in mine. And so I I believe that Jesus was the Son of God. I believe God raised him from the dead I believe in all the things that he preached and um and can be complicated sometimes even the disciples didn't understand a lot of it but it because it works. So I would just like to ask people who are listening right now if you're kind of thinking about Jesus maybe being part of your life go for it. Seek him out because he promises if you seek me you will find me and see what happens you know because he is real he is true he is who he said he was he can save us has saved us died for our sins he loves us tremendously all that stuff is true. So why would we not even give it a try?

SPEAKER_05 42:48

That's right Stacy?

SPEAKER_01 42:51

I I would say um everyone wants to make Jesus into their own image but he came to make us into his and he is bigger and more than we could ever comprehend all the words that have ever been written about him he is even more so I would love to say dare to go into um something that might even be uh a little scary or something about Jesus that you're not sure of because he's bigger and he's more loving and he's more caring he's more more more there's a quote by I have it here by um Antoine des Saint Exuberie he wrote the Little Prince and that book and it says if you want to build a ship don't drum up people to collect wood don't assign them tasks and work rather teach them to long for the endless intensity of the sea and my prayer would be that we long for the intensity of Jesus the depth and the height and the width and more of him because he's more than we Can imagine.

SPEAKER_05 44:02

Yeah. And I just have to say the authentic Jesus rose from the dead. He conquered death. Yes. And we, you know, like I think we're feeling it this week, but in, you know, like a lot, there's a lot of death in our culture. There's a lot of death. And um, he overcame death. He is life. And so that's, you know, that's when we're feeling overwhelmed by even the death of our own in our own selves, that that sense of hopelessness or despair or frustration over all the things in ourselves that we can't conquer. He is our hope. He is the life that we're seeking. So that's my final thought. But there you go. All right. I second both of yours too. All right, ladies. Thank you so much. All right. Thank you guys. See you next time. All right. Logan Jesus.

SPEAKER_00 45:01

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