Three Chicks and a Bible

The Problem of Pain & the Goodness of God

• Julie Coleman • Season 1 • Episode 9

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If God is good, why does suffering exist? And what does “God’s goodness” really mean when life feels painful, confusing, or unfair?


In this episode, we wrestle with some of the hardest questions Christians face: 

Does the Bible’s definition of God’s goodness match our own? Does God allow suffering, ordain it, or redeem it—and why does that distinction matter?


We’ll also talk honestly about how Christians can respond to suffering with compassion instead of clichés, how to sit with difficult questions without dismissing them, and how faith shapes the way we walk through our own pain. Join us for a thoughtful conversation about suffering, hope, and what it truly means to say, “God is good.”


Key words:

suffering

pain

hardship

goodness of God

why does God allow suffering

grief

hope

suffering and faith

trials

compassion

healing

Christian podcast

God and pain

hope in suffering

faith during hardship


SPEAKER_04

Welcome to Three Chicks in the Bible, where we ditch the easy answers, roll up our sleeves, and wrestle with the hard stuff in Scripture. We're talking about the real questions, the messy parts, and what it looks like to follow Jesus. No fences, no filters, just three widows chasing after truth, beauty, and the wild, untamable Christ. We are so glad that you've joined us today.

SPEAKER_03

What does God's goodness really mean when life feels painful, confusing, or unfair? Let's talk about it.

SPEAKER_00

Well, welcome, ladies. Good to see. I we haven't seen each other in a little while. But um, so to today we're gonna be talking about if if God is good, why is there suffering in the world? And um, and so I want to jump right into the idea of um God's goodness. Like let's let's begin with that, because that's um an important place to, you know, just make sure we all are on the same page with even what we're talking about. So when we say God is good, what do we mean? Like biblically, what do we mean? And just as human beings, what do we mean? And are those the same, you know, do we mean the same thing when we say good? Um, what what does the Bible mean when it describes God as good? And does the Bible's understanding of God's goodness differ from ours? Right? So, yeah, Julie, you look like you're like ready to go on this one.

SPEAKER_03

It just made me think of my uh little third grade son many, many years ago, and we enrolled him in football, and um, and uh and he was so excited about doing it, and about three weeks in he came to us and said, I don't want to be in football anymore. And you know, we were like, When our family, we don't quit, you know, what's the reason? And he said, Well, they're not the same kind of roughness that I have, roughness. And I just thought of that in terms of, and by the way, we let him quit when he told us that dancing around the kitchen. We were so happy because it was rough, but anyway, but you know, just the idea of that somebody's idea of something may not mean what other people think of it. And goodness is one thing I think that really gets um redefined through our own experiences and our belief system, and so good, what I think is good may not be good to other people, and you know, certainly what God thinks of is good can be a lot different than what we think. So it is good for us to lay down that foundation.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, absolutely. So when uh you know when the Bible talks about God that God is good, what is the Bible saying about goodness?

SPEAKER_02

Bible's saying that, you know, he's good, his nature is good. Yes, um, he doesn't become good or bad based on how you know what he does or what we do. Um his goodness is not situational, he is always good. You notice in the first chapter of Genesis, everything was good. He made everything good, good, good, good, good. He is good, we are good, they are good, the animals are good, everybody's so good until we get to chapter three, and what changed? Our view of goodness changed, but he didn't. He is still good, always good. And sometimes I think um I base his goodness on how I'm feeling that day. I don't like what's happening right now, so um, this isn't good for me. So, you know, I base it on that, and I have to remember no, that's not God's character. God's character is always good no matter what is happening. I have to align myself with that, with his character, not with my emotions.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah. How do I mean it's hard to define good, even you know, I was looking up some of the original language stuff uh in the Bible. It's still like it's sort of like like what does this original Hebrew mean? Good.

SPEAKER_02

Good.

unknown

Okay. Helpful.

SPEAKER_00

Wow, it has helpful, yeah. So thank you, original language. That was, you know, but I think you know, like I so I think about it, and and uh in the Bible, I believe it means sort of like that it has integrity, that it's uh all all the way through you can count on it to be a benefit to you. But you know, that that that it's something desirable. Goodness is desirable, goodness is you know, you know, so a child may not think it's good to go have your tooth pulled, and yet a parent knows, no, that no, that is it is good because it yeah, that tooth is bad, and so we need to have that tooth pulled out. So, you know, like that's so I think that that's our disconnect sometimes with God's idea of goodness is like good for me is not always comfortable or you know, something that we want in our lives.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, it's not always just a blessing. We think of it as blessing, you know, it's justice and holiness and correction and truth and moral perfection and benevolence too and faithfulness, it's all those things, not just blessing that we want. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

I think goodness too is uh is the concept of that we can trust. We can we can trust him because he's good, like in um the Narnia chronicles, right? Where you know they ask about Aslan, is he safe? And he goes, No, but he's good.

SPEAKER_02

He's so good, yep.

SPEAKER_00

I love that one. Yeah, and so I think that that you know that takes us into the idea of um suffering, because that's I think that that's what um Lewis was trying to incorporate in that understanding. Is he safe? No, but but he's good. So there are, you know, so so according to the Bible, um, you know, that brings us to does God allow suffering, ordain it, or simply redeem it? And um does that distinction matter?

SPEAKER_03

Why does it matter? Well, you know, we've got this whole idea of God being sovereign and in control, he holds all things in his hands, um, you know, and and so nothing happens without his permission. Even Satan has to go to him and say, you know, can I can I wreck this guy in Job. And so, you know, that there's that whole idea that it's things are not just random. Um, and so especially if it's an attack by Satan, um, it's not random. And God allows some things, uh, you know, but it also says that he does not tempt us to sin. And so, you know, and and and he doesn't lie, and you know, there are other character things about him that we know. So it's an interesting question, and if we can solve this in half an hour, I'd be impressed.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I know. We're just gonna like open some doors on this today, I'm sure. But like it's interesting the Job piece, the opening of Job where Satan has to go before God, and you know, they talk about Job and God gives him permission there to do that. For me, that's communicating something that I think that a lot of people forget that it's not a yin and yang thing with God and Satan. They're not equal powers, they don't have equal authority, they're not, you know, they're not, you know, like Batman and the Joker or something. They're not that they're not just like flip sides of um of a force. Uh Satan is definitely uh like a created being, has limited power. And so I think that that's what like is really being communicated there, that God, you know, God is so overall that he has the greater power. He has um, yeah. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, so you're asking, does he ordain it, allow it, or what was the other one? Redeem it? Redeem it. Yeah, ordain it. I have an issue with ordaining with it, you know, because it makes him sound like he's this Greek god that's like, you made me mad, and now I'm going to, you know, my my vengeance is mine, saith the Lord, and all that kind of stuff. And that's kind of just like a almost like perverse sadism masquerading his righteousness for me, you know. This good, good God he's gonna ordain suffering. Does he allow it? Okay. You know, there's time, you know, he let the Israel or the Hebrews go into captivity, but what did he do before? He warned them and warned him and warned him and gave him chance after chance after chance because he loved him so much he didn't want him to. He was this merciful, loving God. So to say that he ordains it, I I that just that that one bothers me, but redeems it absolutely, absolutely. He sits in the middle of it with us and is there with us and says, I am gonna make something good from this. Sometimes it's just our choices, you know. You know, it's just maybe there's a number four. It just happens. It just is, you know, it's just our choices that we have to deal with. And he's like, Yep, I know, I get it. Let's get through this. I'm gonna redeem it.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, bro. You know, they did this and they insisted on doing this, and this, and then God gave them up. God gave them up. In other words, he let them have what they wanted.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03

So there's that aspect for sure.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, God didn't give up on them. I would just want to make sure that listeners hear that, right? He gave them up to their behaviors, yes. Or to their choice or ideals or whatever. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, kind of like God hardened Pharaoh's heart. Well, did he harden his heart or did he just allow him to be who Pharaoh was in the beginning, you know, and not change that?

SPEAKER_00

Right. So when you have that, you know, you have that child that's just like insisting, no, no, I'm going, no, this is what I want. No, and just and you finally go, okay, like give it a shot. Let's, you know, you're gonna unfortunately gonna pay the consequences for that. But if you are so determined, so I think that it's you know, on a microcosm, that is, but it, you know, it's um, you know, from the I was thinking through biblical examples. So Job is one, you know, Job is one of the ones where we see this idea that God may, you know, that God had a certain amount of control over this. That's how that's portrayed. And so, um, you know, and but it's also one of the few where we see everything is repaid to Job, too. So, you know, that's you know, that's an interesting story in the Bible. Um, Joseph, his suffering was inflicted by others, but you know, like his brothers are the ones that inflicted suffering on him, but then God um used it for good. Um, and then um Jonah, his suffering was self-inflicted. You know, that boy was in the whale because he didn't had he didn't had he didn't obey God. So there's, you know, when we made the choice, and that's where like it, you know, so much comes back to the garden. It's like such a, you know, it's the early story. But for me, like that, we opened the door. We we we got that choice, and sin and death came into the world, and so now there is like and it just looks we have common grace, there's a common suffering, right? There's like we live in a world of sin and death. So I feel like there's you know, we've we we are so far from the garden, and people don't live thinking about the garden in ease choice, and so it's like easier to blame God than to say, well, we did bring the sun ourselves. That's a hard, hard truth. I mean, and that's not a truth you share with someone who's in the middle of suffering. No, you know, like like it's a big difference between a theological understanding of suffering and um a personal experience of suffering and ministering to people who suffer, right? So there are things that we say when we're discussing the debate, but if there's someone listening right now to us talk about suffering, like that's like that's we know that you're in a personal herding place and that you're you have a very individual story within the context of all of this, and God is very able to see your individual story in all this. So don't be looking for the category that you fit in, or you know, I mean, because there's you know, like we were just talking about this warfare that brings suffering too. Um, so I guess like I didn't even so I just unintentionally segued into the question. Um, how should Christians respond to people's suffering? Uh, what are ways that we can honor the pain of their suffering and avoid presenting pack Christian answers that diminish or dismiss their questions?

SPEAKER_03

Well, I'm just thinking about um the fact that it is suffering is not some weird thing that you know that we had no idea is going to happen. First Peter 4 12. Dear friends, do not be surprised at the fiery ordeal that has come on you to test you as though something strange were happening to you. You know, and and Jesus said, in this world you will have trouble. And so, and you know, they they hate you because you're you're in me. And so if they hate me, they're gonna hate you. And there's a lot of places like that where Jesus was just saying, This is not gonna be easy, you know. And Paul identifying with Christ, you know, um, he says, for the it has been granted to you on in Philippians 1 29, on behalf of Christ, not only to believe in him, but also to suffer for him. Right. And and suffering, um, that's that's part of our understanding Christ better, because he suffered the whole time he was here on the earth. And so when we are given the opportunity to suffer, not that anybody would pray for it, but you know, it can be a time where we're really understanding Jesus a little bit more and what it was. And of course, you know, it made him uh uh a high priest with sympathy. We don't we don't come to a high priest who hasn't struggled with temptation, but one who's you know, every point has struggled and yet was without sin. You know, so he can sympathize with that because he went through it as a man. And so, you know, it it is an identification with Christ, maybe in not the way we would like to be. Like I say, I don't know anybody that prays that, oh Lord, let me suffer more for you. So, but it is um that's part of it is identifying with him.

SPEAKER_00

And so both those writers were specifically writing to the church. So, you know, when it they talk about tests, you know, so that's a kind of suffering, a test of faith. You know, Paul was definitely suffering for Christ to you know to demonstrate to others. So that you know, James says, count it all joy, my brothers, when you meet trials of various kinds. Yes, um, for you know, the testing of your faith produces um steadfastness. So there are various trials, there are different reasons for them in our lives, Stacy.

SPEAKER_02

Um, I can't remember who said it, but it's to live is to suffer. And um I think we just it it is who we are in our life. We're gonna we're gonna suffer. Now, not everything is suffering for Christ. I mean, if you snug your toe, I'm suffering for Christ. We can't say that. But you know, uh when people are going through some serious suffering, I'm not quoting Bible verses at them. I'm sitting there with them in mercy and say, hey, let me hold your hair back while you verbally vomit this out. You know, I'm here, I get it. Um, I'm not gonna use that time to teach or cajole them to think differently. I'm gonna like, yeah. And you know who else understands is Jesus. He asked for that cup to be passed the day before he was crucified. He understands our suffering, I get it, and he is here with us right now. Let's just sit in this. And somehow, this dark night of the soul of our suffering, we come into this this knowledge of Jesus deeper because we understand him and he understands us. And some when we're honest with our suffering with people, it it opens us up to others in the community and it opens us up to Jesus so he can fill us by using those in our community. And it's just this beautiful thing that he does. So sometimes we just have to sit with people and just listen. Yeah, I get it. Yeah, I'm sorry. And for those of you who are suffering, I am I'm sorry. I am so sorry. And God understands He's right there.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

I mean, that's one of the things that Job's friends, though probably the one thing that they did right, was they sat and just said nothing for seven days. They just sat with him in his sorrow and his pain. Yeah, they saw Sheba. Yeah, so that's where it's it's sometimes we leave people alone or we draw away from people who are suffering, you know, for good reasons. We're afraid of making it worse. Yes. Where you know, we feel like we don't know what to say, but often they just need us present. Just, you know, and and and I I remember like in some of my most intense times of suffering, people would say, What can I do? I don't even have the brain cells for that. Yeah, what can you? I don't know if you need to if you need me to tell you what to do, then I I like I guess I don't need you here. I didn't say that, but you know, like I just uh what I know what I didn't need. I didn't need someone telling me, Oh, just pray this verse.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Just, you know, like well, or to scold me, sort of chide my faith. Like, well, you know the Lord works, you know, like works all things together for good for those who love you, Lord. Like, like, yeah, I yes, I know my Bible, I know my father. You know, I there have been times where people say, Well, you know, this is just warfare, right? You know this came from the enemy. Like makes it easy. Like, if I'm in a foxhole and I've been hit by fire, I can know the enemy sent it, but I'm bleeding here. Um like I'm bleeding out. So, what I would really like are some bandages and pain reliever. You know, so it's soup. Bring me soup. Bring me soup, bring me, you know, tell me that you're with me, that you're you know, even if you don't understand, we don't understand every kind of suffering. Yep. You know, not everybody, you know, you know, like we all have, you know, you might have lost a parent, but if someone's lost a parent in a, you know, like and there are all different ways uh to lose people, there's all different experiences of that grief. Sometimes it's harder when you've been close to the person, sometimes but harder when you weren't close to that person. Because now, you know, so you don't always know. So it's the best thing, I think, to say, tell me, you know, tell me about your pain right now.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Right? Tell me, tell me. Ask a lot of, you know, ask not a lot of questions, like you know, don't interrogate them, but you know, be open to them telling their story. And and you know, it was funny when you just said made me think of um Peter that not all or uh Julie, not all suffering is persecution. You know, Peter even says, Um, let none of you suffer as a murderer or a thief or an evildoer or as a meddler. Yeah, you know, like there's there are those people that are meddling in Christians who are meddling people's lives, and then they get cut out and they're like, Oh, I mean persecuted for Jesus. Like, I don't think that's what it is. I think that you were in their face and in their business in a way that was obnoxious, and that wasn't um, that was you probably should have paid attention to the signals, and then they shut the door on you. That's um, you know, I like how real the Bible is.

SPEAKER_02

Interesting.

SPEAKER_03

I've heard a a lot of people um talk about, you know, those horrible people that came and said, I know how you feel. I I never in in my times where I really was suffering, uh I mean worst thing I probably was when my mother died. And uh and I just I didn't have a clue about grief until that moment. Um and she she died for two years because she had leukemia and and they they had nothing that could cure that type. Um, but I never got mad at people because I felt like they're trying to reach out, they don't know what to say, but they love me, and that's why they're just you know trying to hold my hand through it and and you know, and they can make a claim, you don't, and I think to myself, well, probably you don't know, but it's okay because I I'm you know, I'm I'm looking at the intent and not so much the awkwardness with which people express themselves. But um, but one thing that that suffering did for me and when I my mother died, and it was it was a terrible, terrible time for me. And but one thing it did was it m caused me to have to clarify some of the things I thought about God and that that didn't happen. You know, when I first heard she had leukemia, um, I was, you know, first, you know, hoping, of course, that God would heal her, because she was only 68. Um, but it it was and I was like 42 or something. I mean, young to be losing your mom. And so anyway, my sister was even young, way younger than me. So um, but I just thought, you know, maybe he'll heal her, maybe he won't. And then we found out it was a kind that they didn't they couldn't cure. And so um, but this is what I assumed. I assumed that because I belong to Christ, that my grieving would not be the same as other people's grieving. And of course, Peter says that, right? And so, and so I thought, um, you know, I'm just Gonna keep close to the Lord and keep crying out to him, and he will minister to me through this time. And what did I get? Crickets. Nothing. Like shouting into the wind. And so that was so disturbing to me because I was okay, unhappy, but okay with him taking her, which he did. Um, but I wasn't, I expected him to be more real and and yet he was quiet. And um, I look back now and I see little ways in which he did demonstrate his love for me, but I was so blinded by gif uh by uh grief I couldn't you know do anything. So I had to kind of re-look at what I thought about God, and that took a lot of all those platitudes that we heard when we were younger. I had to say, maybe, maybe not. And I started really looking into his character. I read book Job several times. I I got a lot because he was silent for Job for 37 chapters.

SPEAKER_00

Right, right. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03

So silence of God, not new. Me and Job at least did it. Yeah. And so, you know, those kinds of things where I really had to look and say, okay, so some of what I assumed about God was not true. And I, you know, somehow with all the things that I've been taught or told or read even in the Bible, I put this package together what I thought God was. And then when he wasn't that, I was like, does he exist? Or maybe I could, you know, because what like I said at the beginning, uh what when we are perceiving him in action or seeing he's not acting at the moment, which is a hard one, you know, we're we're we're perceiving it through the lens of our experiences, of what we've been taught, of you know, that kind of thing. And if if it's not, it doesn't come outright, it's not that God did something wrong, it's that we didn't understand him correctly. And so it's really a case of when we're we're disillusioned, is to go back and say, okay, so what was I expecting and what really you know can can I expect, yeah, knowing who he is and what his goodness means.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. See, I think, and what for listening to you, I think how um one of the things that we should do or that we can do with people who are suffering is ask them, so so where are you seeing God in this right now? Because you know, the language that you used about like like God took her, right? That's you can say that easily because of your incredible long-standing relationship with God, your experience with him, your complete trust in him. Whereas someone else may hear he took her, and they're like, I don't, well, I didn't want him to take my child, or I didn't want him to take, you know, so like to ask people, you know, before we start put using our language, because then that informs our language to ask them, where do you see God in this? They're like, I don't see him anywhere, you know, or I see him as like, well, he's in charge and he's doing this. So then to like we can, you know, just like Paul um use different language in in different in different cultures, like we need to hear what their current the culture of their suffering is at the moment and what words they're using, their understanding before we open our mouths. Sometimes it can help.

SPEAKER_03

Never a bad idea to point someone to God.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, without preaching. I know that when I like I went through a season where it was like like huge, huge periods of suffering in my life, like back to back. And um, and you know, like one thing that was hard for me, and there are people out there, you know, there are listeners I know who are going through like a season of suffering where it's not like one big crisis in your life, it's like four came rolling in back to back.

SPEAKER_01

Yep.

SPEAKER_00

And what was hard for me was like like probably the third thing that happened was like was almost killed by this dog, by this killer dog. Like the owner had trained the dog to kill, and I was oh my god, on the receiving end of that. People acted like, oh my goodness, like what else is gonna happen to you? Or like seriously, like, like, why is all this, you know, like they I really felt like they were blaming me. I felt like the things that they were saying weren't, you know, like weren't very helpful to my own wrestling. Like I felt like, wow, this is kind of over the top, don't you think, Lord? Like, haven't I been through like three major things and now I'm almost killed by a killer dog? That's so like people's exhaustion with my suffering um was hard for me. It made me want to like diminish it, like or put it aside, or not, you know, I had to really narrow the um number of people that I went to for comfort or support because I felt like you know, they weren't I knew they weren't trying to hurt me. I knew they weren't trying to add to what I was going through. But their exhaustion with my suffering was like, dude, okay, wow, I am exhausted because I care about people. I don't want to add pain to people's lives. So I I withdrew a little bit more because, like, oh, okay, yeah, no, I don't want to exhaust you or hurt you. Now I feel like my suffering is wearing you out. That okay, that's that's you know, or they would have their own questions about God because I was suffering. And I was like, I don't think I can help you with that.

SPEAKER_03

No, yeah, you know, but he does he does take those times. You can call it the wilderness experience or you know, the silence of God or whatever, but he does take those times. Um, and and he he I read a quote for those who know him, suffering often becomes one of the clearest places where his reality is experienced. Yes. Who he is is experienced. Pain by itself proves nothing, but what God does through it can reveal everything. It's not the proof that God's absence, sometimes it's the place where his presence becomes undeniable. And so we learn about him, sometimes the hard way, but we learn about him through the suffering because it takes all the things that you thought, and it just all of a sudden gives us a crystal clear, focused understanding of something. I know when my mom was dying, she wrote me a note from the hospital down in Houston, and she wrote and said, you know, I'm not sorry this has happened to me because it has made me understand my priorities and what's most important. And I lost that card. I could just kick myself that I did, but I think of it all the time because you know, to be able to say, in the middle of the suffering, I'm not sorry because I'm changed and and I value that more than being comfortable. Yeah, and so it can be that, but again, just pointing people to the Lord and and Jesus suffering. Well, you want to talk about somebody that suffered in so many ways, and not just on the cross, the his whole life through the rejection, the betrayal, the the people misunderstanding him, not feeling like you know, anybody gets it, you know, all of those things, you know, son of man has nowhere to lay his head, and you know, his family rejecting him. And there's just so much that he went through, felt it as a human. Um, and and so if we're following a suffering savior, it's just like I said, one way to relate to him. So but we have to stick with what we know to be true about God, that's gotta be the bottom line. Um you know, and and uh even when people stood at the cross, everything looked terrible, everything looked wrong, and yet that moment was the greatest display of God's goodness ever.

SPEAKER_00

Right.

SPEAKER_03

So it can look so bad, and yet it can be so good in the end, how God changes it to that.

SPEAKER_02

So Yeah, I can think back on times that I've suffered, and um every time I can say, I don't want to go through that again because that was not good, but I thank God for it. Now, I say this from my my privilege here in America, you know, of the suffering that I have to face. I'm not getting beheaded, I'm not, you know, facing a firing squad or something or being crucified for my beliefs, but I still suffer, and um I can still thank God for it because I've learned one, his character in a deeper way. And I've learned my character in a deeper way, and those two tend to line up better after suffering than than they did before, even though I don't want to go through it again because it was hell. But I thank God for it because he didn't leave me in it, and he used it, he redeemed it for his glory, for his good. Yeah, and mine. And mine.

SPEAKER_00

I love I heard an interview with Helen Rosevere, she was a uh British medical missionary, and she was stationed in a country in Africa that underwent uh like a whole regime change while she was there. And during that time, there were um soldiers that attacked their compound and took them hostage. And Helen was a young woman, and she was, you know, they abused her and and sexually assaulted her. Like, and so when she was released and went back to England, she was treated and healed, but she went back to that country. And when she was 85, there's an interview with her, and um the interviewer asked her, you know, like you went through this horrible experience, like, was it worth it? And she said, That's you're asking the wrong questions. Um, was it worth it? The question is, is he worthy? And she said, He's worthy of everything I would suffer. Like, and there are people who suffered greater things. There are women in that country who are you know under endure rape all the time. Whenever soldiers take over, they they go through regime change all the time. And so she said, He Jesus is worthy of everything that I've endured to get people the message of him. And so that like that was I mean, that really impressed me. But um, but you know, like like she would never say what happened to her was a good thing. Like that's what I think sometimes we communicate, we miscommunicate in this whole thing is is not that the things that happen to us are good, they never become good things, right? But he he brings good out of them in our lives and he transforms it. Okay, so we might have like kind of covered this, but what role do you think that free will, a fallen world, and spiritual war warfare play in suffering? And how do we hold those together without um oversimplifying? Like we'll probably oversimplify because we don't we're not gonna be talking for eight hours.

SPEAKER_02

Right.

SPEAKER_00

So I'll just start. I feel like um, you know, when people ask questions and and they're really like they're angry with God, or they, you know, they don't believe He's there because of their suffering, or their suffering has driven them to a place. Um, you know, I'm very careful about um giving them answers. Because, you know, I'll say, well, let's, you know, let's look at a story from someone. Because God doesn't, in the Bible, he doesn't lay out all the answers. He didn't with Job. He didn't like say, okay, Job, you've got all these questions. When he did respond to Job, he described himself. He's like, look at who I am. And for me, that's like, look, like, those are great questions. And I have answers that I've worked out for myself, through my relationship with God, and through my own suffering. And I want to be careful not to short circuit your process, that it's important for you to wrestle through those questions. It's important. Um, I can tell you for sure that God is good and that He is open to your questions. And read the book of Psalms. Look at all the ways that David brought his pain to God and you know, find those Psalms and see, you know, where you can find some direction. But, you know, unless they want, unless they say to me, Well, I really need a specific answer about this. Like, okay, let's look at that together. But I I try hard not to, I mean, that's how I try to avoid cliches and oversimplifying, is by, you know, here's some possibilities of what it could be. Yep, could be spiritual warfare, could be that you live in a fallen world, you know, depending on the circumstance, it could be a result of your own actions or the or the actions of people around you. It could be because you did a good thing. It could be, you know, Helen Roosevelt was doing a good thing. She was a medical missionary bringing the news of Jesus someplace, and that's why she, you know, and endured that suffering because of other people's sin.

SPEAKER_02

But no.

SPEAKER_00

Your thoughts?

SPEAKER_02

I have the same thoughts. I mean, we live in a fallen world. Yes, people are gonna hurt one another, we're gonna make bad choices, stuff happens, it's just life. It is, it is what we live with. I mean, we have to live with the consequences of our choices, we have to live with the consequences of other people's choices on us. And yet, there's God that is right there in the middle of it. And if we remember his character when we're going through it, we say, okay, his character is one of justice, of mercy, of peace, of goodness, you know, all his faithfulness. He is not gonna leave me in the middle of this. So we can rely on that. I can't trust in you know myself sometimes, and I can't trust in other people, but I can trust him in this suffering, and he redeems it and makes it all all worth it in the end. So, yeah, uh, fallen world, spiritual warfare, all that. It all factors in all of it.

SPEAKER_03

I mean, the first thing God did, you know when that sin happened in the garden, was let them know, okay, everything's different now.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

You know, you've introduced sin into the world, and so this is what life is going to look like. And he talked about you know, Eve desiring her husband, and and he was gonna rule over. Talked about Adam working through the, you know, in both of those words, there was a word labor involved, um, and and and labor and childbirth, and then Adam with the weeds and the, you know, it it changed everything and it changed the relationship. This is flesh, bone of my bone, flesh of my flesh. Adam was psyched when Eve was created, and then next chapter, they're throwing each other under the bus. Right, right? The whole relationship had changed. So that's the reality of sin, and that's the reality of where we live and our present state. Um, you know, we we have been freed from the slavery of sin, but and given potential in order to be able to please God, but we're still faced with sin every single day, whether in ourselves or other people, or just I mean, Paul says creation is groaning, waiting for release from this whole curse of sin. So that's the that's the reality of things. So we shouldn't be surprised when bad things happen just because um it's it's it's because we wrecked it a long time ago. But um, but but so what did Hebrews tell us? Hold on firmly to the hope we possess because he who promised is faithful. Jesus has promised, he's coming back, he's gonna rule with justice, he's gonna get this world back to the place that it was before the fall, he's gonna do all those things, and we're waiting on it, we're groaning for it, but uh that's the reality. So the reality of our present versus the hope of our future. And um, that's I think the thing we have to hang on to. Someday people won't be losing their mothers. You know, someday we won't be uh in in uh fear of being raped. You know, there's good there's something better coming, and and that's a hope that we can profess. And Jesus is faithful and he'll do it. He said he's gonna do it, he'll do it. So that bottom line is where we put our hope. And um, you know, no matter what it looks like on this side of eternity, um, we can we can still rest in those promises.

SPEAKER_00

But there's a real um, you know, I think, you know, we live in relative safely here in America. And while people maybe don't like us because we're Christians, or you know, they give us a hard time because we're Christians. Some people have had family members cut themselves cut them off because they're Christians, but um, there are people who are in other countries who are imprisoned or they lose everything, they are immediately homeless upon becoming Christians and jobless, and or you know, they have no hope of advancement in life because of their faith, or you know, or they're beaten repeatedly. And so I feel like those like we should we should spend more time listening to people who have suffered and continued in their relationship with Christ, because I you know they have inform you know, information, wisdom, and experience of Jesus that can inform us and that can fortify us. And we should, you know, say, tell me how you, you know, just like that missionary or you know, what a what's your perspective? What got you through that? When your you know, pastor husband has been imprisoned 20 times and your family's been left with scraps, how what's how does how has that impacted your understanding of God? Where has God been for you in that? And uh, you know, we can access that through in you know articles and stuff now, but as we encounter people, just say, you know, like it's a good question to ask people say, think about the times that you've suffered. How has that, you know, how has that impacted your relationship with God and how? Because we, you know, we we love the answered prayer in the American church, like we love that, you know, we love sharing prayer answers, we love that. And there were, you know, during that time where I was you know, long time of suffering, I would get kind of tired because like, what about those of us, you know, who have the same prayer request week after week for the same addicted person or whatever? Um, but I think that like if we could incorporate that into our body life a little more, okay. Those of you who've been suffering for a while, talk to us about where you where God is for you in that. Because um, because I think that there's value for that for all of us, not just the answered prayer testimonies, but the unanswered prayer testimonies. Where's God for you in this?

SPEAKER_01

Yes. Amen.

SPEAKER_00

Any final thoughts on suffering before we close on our fun question of the this is great fun.

SPEAKER_02

I guess my final thoughts would be if you know the character of God, that he is so so good. When bad things happen, we won't ask why. Why is this happening? But we can turn it to okay, how are you going to redeem this? And we can partner with him in our suffering. Okay, I know you're going to redeem this somehow. I'm I don't know if I'll see it, but I know you will. So show me how I can partner with you. And then it it it brings us together with God instead of separating us from God because the why questions separate us, and he wants us to ask those questions, those are important, I get it, but they separate us because they they they put a divide in who we think God is, and so the how, okay, how can I partner with you in this? And it helps us draw closer to God in our suffering, and um we're we don't feel like lone wolves out there doing this on our own. I'm doing I'm suffering with Christ, I'm suffering with God. There is something that's gonna come out of this. I don't know when, I don't know how, I might not see it, but I trust his goodness and his character that it will.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, I just I wanted to read uh 2 Corinthians 4. For our light and momentary troubles are achieving for us an eternal glory that far outweighs them all. So we fix our eyes not on what is seen, but on what is unseen, since what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal, we're gonna be rewarded for suffering. That's kind of a crazy thought, but it it, you know, because if if we're and of course everything done in faith is what pleases God. So if we just hang on there and say, God, I know you, I know who you are, and I don't understand, but that doesn't mean you're not at work, and it doesn't mean that um my understanding is without flaw. And so those kinds of things. But so we fix our eyes not on what's seen, not on what we look around us at, but on what's unseen. In the unseen world, God is at work. And doing the things. And we can trust him because he's good. And so that's that's kind of the bottom line for me is uh know that that eternal eternal thought is a reality as much as the situation is right now in our lives.

SPEAKER_00

And you know, one way to definitely avoid Pat answers is like while Christians sometimes give them, the Bible doesn't give Pat answers. The Bible really respects and honors suffering. When you know, when the apostles were writing these encouragements, they were being repeatedly beaten, imprisoned, they were losing friends, they were losing family, they were, you know, there were people dying for their faith. There were, you know, there there were and there were the everyday sufferings of like more disease than we can imagine, or being robbed on the road, that kind of thing. So, you know, they they come from a place of experience when they say these things. Light in momentary troubles is what, you know, like when he says that, he's using kind of a little bit of sarcasm there, or you know, like you know, he's he's not he's not experiencing light, what we would consider. It's just like momentary troubles, right? I've just been beaten for the 15th time and left to die. Um, so I like that the Bible, you know, comes at things from you know, honoring the complexity of our lives and of who God is, and doesn't just say here's the answer, it says, Here is God, here is God, and he is here for us.

SPEAKER_03

So I love your favorite verse in the Psalms, he holds our tears in a bottle. I think it's the Psalms, might be Isaiah, but anyway, it's in there. But he does, he cares, he cares, he knows how many hairs we have in our head, and he knows the tears that we've shed. And and you know, Jesus wept along with Mary and Martha seeing their suffering. Yeah, and it they're just he's a compassionate, merciful God, and he hears us and he's with us always, and so we can depend on his goodness even when things are grim.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah. All right, so yeah, so we know if you're listening, this wasn't the um be all and end all a podcast on suffering, because there's a there is a lot to say and wrestle with suffering in this world, but um, but yeah, it is it is um it is God. So to close on a lighter note, name one Bible character you relate to and why a hundred percent Peter, a hundred percent Peter.

SPEAKER_02

That would be me. I am the impetuous jump out of the boat. If that's you, here I come, kind of, and then speak before I think sometimes. Yeah, that would be me. I love him, and I love the character on the show The Chosen, Peter. I mean, he's the cutest one, so I really like him.

SPEAKER_03

That's not superficial.

SPEAKER_02

I didn't say I'm always deep.

SPEAKER_03

Who I relate to, I mean, there's a lot that I admire. Um, and I I would say probably Peter the most in relating to, but um, you know, I just I look at Joseph, who kind of fits in with this whole thing, um, is you know, he he had heard from God that he was going to work through his generation just like he had through his father's and his father's father, and he was excited about it. A lot of people call him, you know, the spoiled brat, but he it was the first time God had spoken to his generation, and he hung on to what God showed him in those dreams the whole time. He was in slavery and in prison, and he just kept his eye on the prize, which was God was going to redeem his people. And so that's who I'd like to be, is that person, and not not be looking all the time at what's around me or the you know hard things, but no, there's a plan and God will accomplish what he said he was gonna accomplish, and I can just hang on and just wait to see it happen and just be faithful in the meantime.

SPEAKER_00

That's great. That's great. Well, mine definitely is Peter, too. Like, I, you know, I'm always like rushing ahead of the Lord, always ready to be like, oh well, I know what's gonna happen now. Like, and oh no, this isn't gonna, you know, don't do this. Or um, you know, I have I I like I have great faith. One minute, I'm out of the boat, and the next minute I'm under the waves going, whoop, no, that was not it. So um, I definitely relate to Peter. I definitely um, you know, the Lord has certainly scolded me any number of times, and yet he always cooks fish for me on the beach and welcomes me home. And so that's um that's and I, you know, I can be one like, well, what about that person? And the Lord's like, uh, get your eyes on your own paper, Lori. Like, that's like I I will I'll take care of everybody, don't worry about it. So yeah, definitely is Peter for me too. Yeah, that's funny.

SPEAKER_02

We're all saying Peter.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, and how'd you like to be the character, the character in the Bible? Everybody goes, Oh, in my worst moments, I'm just like Peter.

SPEAKER_02

Well, in my best moments, I am too. You know, the faith. And how hard can it be? Oh, I'm gonna do this, and a lot of times I do.

SPEAKER_03

Lord, I'd go to the death for you.

SPEAKER_00

And he did.

SPEAKER_03

Yep, he did.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right, ladies. Well, as always, it's a privilege to spend time with you and talk about stuff. So I love you very much, and we love our listeners. So if you're suffering and you need us to pray for you, please let us know. And um, and we will. And uh yeah, until next time, thanks very much.

SPEAKER_03

All right, thank you for listening.

SPEAKER_04

You have been listening to Three Chicks and a Bible. Don't stop now. Keep asking the hard question. Check out our website at threechicksandabible.com where you can respond to this episode, find out more about the three chicks, and submit questions for a future episode. Subscribe to our show from anywhere you get your podcasts. As always, thank you for stopping by.