Below the Surface Podcast

Near Death, Regret & True Freedom | Brian Saunders | Below the Surface #4

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Brian Saunders is known all over New Bern — from teaching for 26 years to Victory Fishing to Neuse River Fishers of Men. But most people have no idea what built him.

In this episode, Brian gets raw about the three things he worshipped before God — football, alcohol, and women — and the wild night at ECU that changed everything. He also opens up about almost dying in 2019 during a routine surgery, the pain of his father's alcoholism, his regrets as a dad, and what it finally took to stop chasing his father's approval.

This one goes deep. Enjoy it. 🎣

📲 Follow Brian: Victory Fishing Custom Charters — facebook.com/VictoryFishing | 📞 252-626-6006 Neuse River Fishers of Men Inshore Trail

🎙️ Below the Surface — where depth matters more than image, truth matters more than comfort.

SPEAKER_03

Hey, what's up guys? Welcome to Below the Surface, where depth matters more than image. Uh truth matters more than comfort. And every story starts where most people stop looking. I got a special guest today, Brian Saunders. Brian, I'm glad you're you're here. I've been wanting to do this. The podcast is new, but I've been wanting to do a podcast for a while. And you've been one of the guests that I've definitely wanted to have on. So I really appreciate you taking time out of your morning to be here.

SPEAKER_00

Glad to be here. Just hate that second fiddle that Tim asked you, but that's okay. Tim said he's gonna be watching. Well, if I had to put that in there.

SPEAKER_03

That was a great conversation. Did you watch it?

SPEAKER_00

I did.

SPEAKER_03

That was a great conversation. It was. Um it's actually, you know.

SPEAKER_00

All your conversations are good.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. They were. Um, you know, I I I pick people that I really want to talk to. I think that's a big deal with the podcast, too. People that I feel like has good stories that fits our title, you know, that's been through the funk of life, um, but have come of overcome that stuff and have become successful in their own route, in their own right. And I think that's important. Um and the biggest reason I wanted you here, um people know you. You know, if you want to agree to that or not, but people know who Brian Saunders is. Um, but you know, from the fishing, um, the tournaments, um, you know, victory fishing, um, your, you know, the Noose River Fisher men, um, um, they know your faith. I think that's a big thing that most people that I talk to about Brian Saunders is they know your faith. Um, but I I think most people don't really know what built you to get where you are today. Yeah. Um I think you know, probably, you know, I'm sure your close friends and close family people know, but on the grand scheme of things that people from the outside, especially in our own community, uh that know Brian Saunders, because I can tell you most people in this community know who you are from something.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Um, but born and raised here, so yeah.

SPEAKER_03

And you know, you've been on TV, you you know, you've been kind of everywhere. Um, you've kind of touched a little bit of everything. Um, you were a teacher for a long time. Yeah, 26 years. So how many kids have you touched and parents? So a lot of people know you, but do they know what truly built you? I doubt it.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Uh I don't uh as I've already said coming in here, I'm a little nervous today. I don't like being vulnerable. Right. I don't like um I don't mind sharing certain parts of my life with like when I go speak places or give my testimony. But there's some places that uh that um I've kept near and dear and deep. And um even to the point of it's funny that my wife and I could get into conversations sometimes, and the next thing I know I'm going in places that I've never shared with her and that I've just held on to. Um because as I told you, I tend to do that. I tend to hold on to things because I don't want to be a burden unto others, which I think is a big mistake that uh most men make. We we we don't want to be a burden to others. We feel like you know, we're men. We gotta we gotta be able to uh stand on our own two feet and and something you and Tim said, you know, pull ourselves up by the bootstrap. Well, I mean, yeah, I I think God gives us the power to be able to do that, but the reality is we need God and we need others. And men don't, you know, share. It's just I I was thinking about when you and I were messaging each other back and forth about a little post you did on Facebook, and I just just felt like reaching out to you and just saying, look, dude, forget it. You know, and I you know, we went down, we we went back and forth, back and forth. And uh I think that's where men fail, is that we we hold stuff and we we think we gotta fix it, and we gotta pull ourselves up by the bootstrap, and it's what we've been beaten over the head with. And uh I I just think the reality is we we need to we need to quit thinking we've gotta fix everything and take care of everything and learn to turn things over and to be open to people. And honestly, that's the only reason I mean, no, uh not the only reason. Um I'm honored to be here, honored you ask me. Um but the main reason why I wanted to come do this is because man, those questions you sent are deep. They're deep. And you know, I I love I love, you know, this, you know, the title of this podcast, you know, uh Below the Surface. Because we we want to keep it here.

SPEAKER_03

And that's what most people see. Yeah. Yeah. You know, and they don't see everything below. And it's what you said earlier is exactly why I made it a show, is for men to talk and women. Um, because I think men need to learn how to have better conversations with women also, and and be vulnerable to women also. Yeah. Um, but the biggest thing is having an outlet where men can talk and hopefully it shows other men to find other men to talk to, that it's okay. It's you know, we're doing it in front of however many people are watching and that are going to watch in the future. So, like, it's okay. We need to talk. We have a lot on us that over time just builds up from a childhood. That's what people, that's what we're gonna realize because we're told at our childhood to be quiet. Hold your feelings in. Yeah. And don't, you know, don't cry.

SPEAKER_01

Don't cry, don't show any emotion, don't, don't do this. And I think most people know I uh I've gotten over that a long time ago, you know, at uh captains meetings or when I speak, uh I'll break down and cry at at nothing. Uh I think my my brother Doug is worse than I am, though. He can't even say a prayer without crying.

SPEAKER_03

I'm not good at either, you know. Like when we have our uh parties and stuff at work and we, you know, like the award ceremonies and stuff like that, like I get emotional. Like I just do. And it's just passion.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, absolutely.

SPEAKER_03

And but we're told as a kid that it's something totally different, but it's not. It's just passion, you know. If if if you really care about something, it's gonna jerk a tear out of you.

SPEAKER_01

If it's good enough for Jesus to cry, it's good enough for us.

SPEAKER_03

Yep.

SPEAKER_01

I mean, bottom line.

SPEAKER_03

Yep. And you know, another thing that me and Tim talked about too, man, is just being okay with going to other than other men and friends. Like he he talked about it'll struggle for him for years just to tell another man he loves him. Yeah. Or give him a hug. You know, and I think stuff like that's a big deal, you know. Um, I I learned that at leadership at work is, you know, some some people just need that. Oh, absolutely. You know, to help them get through to the next level because I realize some people have never even had a another man even say that to them. Oh, yeah. You know, I mean Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

I mean it it's uh I don't I don't know how old I was when I first heard my dad tell me he loved me. I knew he loved me. Um well I tell you exactly, it's probably a little over 20 years ago when my mother died. When my mother died, I think that's when my father came to the realization that life is short and that he needs to tell the people he loves that he loves them. And um I think from that point on, I don't think he and I ever had a conversation again where it didn't end with love you pops or love you boy, you know.

SPEAKER_03

But it it just it it sucks it took that long. Yeah. But that that's that generation though.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, absolutely.

SPEAKER_03

They don't mean any of that because they're because their dad was even worse than that. Well, yeah, you know, so most of the time their dad, they they never got it from their father, ever.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, well, my my dad's father was a sharecropper, and he had uh my sister corrected me on this. I thought he had ten sisters. Oh wow, but it was it was either eight or nine, I can't remember. Um, but uh my dad was the only son. And um my dad's father died when he was in the seventh grade. Okay, and he quit school and took over what his father did as a sharecropper to provide for, and he was the baby. All his sisters were older, so to take care of his mom and sisters, he quit school, became a sharecropper like his father, and did that until everybody was taken care of, and then he moved from good old Elm City to New Bern, came to work for the bus company when he first got here.

SPEAKER_03

There you go. So, yeah. Had to become a man very young.

SPEAKER_01

He had to become a man very young, and um uh just yeah, I mean it's it's tough. He he didn't get to experience his truly his ten, eight teenage years, and he didn't get to feel love of a father for extended period of his life.

SPEAKER_03

So yeah, and I think as we grow up, we try to give them grace for that too. Oh, absolutely. As you're and when you're young, you kind of don't understand it, and it could hurt your feelings, or you could have certain feelings towards your parent. But as you grow up and you learn their story, and plus you become a parent also.

SPEAKER_01

That's the big one.

SPEAKER_03

When you realize how hard it is, and in in trying to do everything right, you kind of back up a little bit and say, Hey, I give you a little bit of grace.

SPEAKER_01

Absolutely. I think we gotta give everybody grace. I mean I hope they're giving it to me. I mean seriously. I mean, me too. I mean, people have to give me grace all the time because I'm a knucklehead. I I mean, I really am. I I like to mess around, joke around, play around. I think that's one of the uh uh blankets I wear to protect. Uh but anyway, yeah. I I'm I'm a lot of people have bestowed a lot of grace to O'Brien Summer.

SPEAKER_03

I gotta have it too, because like one thing Maria tells me all the time is you you take it too far.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Well, I'm gonna tell you right there, buddy bro, you outkicked your covers. Oh boy, you by a long way. That's most all that, that whole family is just a great family. You you're married into a great family.

SPEAKER_03

I I I I don't have I I joke with fishing all the time. Uh because I always say, you know, to be a really good great fisherman, you gotta have a little bit of luck to you.

SPEAKER_02

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_03

And I was like, I always would just be a decent fisherman. I would never be great because I I use all my luck with my wife. Every single bit of it. Like, it's the truth. Like, no doubt. I could be fishing with somebody, we'll be the same hole, same bait, same rod, same setup, same everything. He just catching all of them. Or like I go with Josh Sutton a lot. Like, we'll go out together, we'll catch decent fish. He'll go out the next day and just slay them. I'm like, he's like, I don't get it. I'm like, I get it. It's my luck. It's got nothing to do with you.

SPEAKER_00

That's why I tell you.

SPEAKER_03

Like, don't ever expect to slay them with me because it ain't gonna happen.

SPEAKER_01

You know, I'm like a black cloud following you everywhere you go, right?

SPEAKER_03

So, like, don't ever expect it's you know, it's not on you, man. Like, so if anybody goes fishing with me, just know that. It's not you, it's me. Um, you said something very interesting on your intake form. Yeah. And it's kind of set with me all night. Oh boy. Um, and it's very interesting. Um, you flat out said at one point in your life your gods were football alcohol and women. Yeah. That's brutally honest. Yeah. Which I love it. Yeah. Uh, what made you answer that? Answer like that?

SPEAKER_01

Uh the fact that um we get caught up in life where we are told as men to go conquer the world, to go make everything you can to to to you know success is you know, this, this, and this and this, and um I I just that whole and it it's it's true. Um when I went to East Carolina and played played football my five five years there, got red shirt at my fresh year, first year. Um but it was a pivotal point in my life where reality slapped me upside the face. I went from being the man playing football at Newburn High School to being a nobody. And you're just a small fish in a big pond. You got a hundred and something guys on the team, there's big old boys like Terry Long and you know, just big boys, and uh it just it slaps real you you get slapped with reality. And so I don't like to fail.

SPEAKER_06

Right.

SPEAKER_01

Um as I shared with you on that intake form, uh, something that people wouldn't know about me, I'm very insecure. People won't don't believe that when I say that because I come across as being very secure in who I am, but and and I am to a degree a who I am in Christ. Right. But still the insecurity falls in from a fear of failure. And fear, I don't care what no man says, there's always fear of failure. Not that there's anything wrong with failure, because failure's a great teacher. What I used to tell my students and my athletes over, you know, at Grover is hey, it's okay to fail, but it's not okay to fail and not learn something. Absolutely. What have you learned? Learn something from it, take something from it. We all make mistakes. Um so with that insecurity, um, I put everything I had into football. And football became, you know, I look at it, you know, it's funny that we got the Trinity, God the Father, God to Son, God the Holy Spirit. Well, football was my God. It was my number one God. And then I had God to football, God to alcohol, and God to women. And um I just concentrated on God to football so much. I poured so much in it to the point where I I lacked doing stuff in the classroom I should have done. I did enough to pass. I did enough. I mean, I went from being a heck of a student in high school uh to being just barely getting by in college.

SPEAKER_06

Right.

SPEAKER_01

Um I think I graduated college with uh 2.54, I think I ended up, which ended up being good. But what saved me is after I got rid of God football. Still part of football, it wasn't God, but it wasn't God. Right. Um but anyway, um just concentrating on that, and that just became everything I focused on, everything I cared about, everything that uh I, you know, wanted. And then of course with that, alcohol and and women. Um I I didn't use this term speaking at the church this past weekend. I have used it in church. Um I think I substituted this word with harlot, but uh I I I was young. Loved drinking, and my father was an alcoholic. He was when he died at 89, he had 49 years of sobriety. Um but um I was becoming an alcoholic, probably was. Um and then with that, Greenville, North Carolina, ECU, where the women are in my day like seven to one to the men. Uh you know, let's let's be honest, I I became a whore. I'm not gonna lie. Yeah, you know, yeah, I chased women hard. Yep. And um so that's the only three things I truly cared about. Yep. Um anything do with football, my teammates. If you want to mess with one of my football players, our football players, you're gonna get us all. Yep. Uh and so uh that was my that was my family. That's all I cared about. And then the other two were spin-offs from dad. So correct. Um anyway.

SPEAKER_03

And I think that's why it intrigued me so much, because like I kind of have a very similar story to that. Um I was really big in sports in high school. I didn't go to college or anything, so right out of high school, I kind of the same slump. I went from you know being somebody to I'm just on my own trying to find a job. Um, missed the competition part of life, all that. So I got into bodybuilding really heavy. Um, and I can take you down a bad road too.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, absolutely.

SPEAKER_03

Um, but the other thing you said as insecurity, a lot of people don't know about me, is I'm very insecure also. Um, and I think we do a lot of those things out of our insecurities. Oh, you know, um bodybuilding. I'm just gonna get buff. You know, I'm gonna be secure now. Um, women. No better way to feel secure than have a woman to be all over you and make you feel like you're a king.

SPEAKER_06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Um, so yeah, I've been through the those same stages. You know, I've I I lived it, you know. Um, you know, I've had through my life is I've had people, you know, bodybuilding as gods, and then the women, um, and then alcohol. And the same thing is alcohol was a big problem in my family too. Um, but luckily I caught myself, and then other people helped me catch myself where you're going. What you know, you don't go that way. And the biggest thing is, like you said, uh outkicked my coverage.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Um, and that that was a big saving grace because I I literally never thought I would ever find a woman to make me stop chasing other ones. You know, that's a god honest truth. You know, absolutely. But you know, as soon as I met her, it was it was over because I knew I'd keep my coverage. Like why chase anymore? It's no it's you can't get no better. So just stop.

SPEAKER_00

Just stop. Same time I can relate. Uh yeah.

SPEAKER_03

So, but you know, and my and my whole story with that, you know, moving to Newburn was a whole God thing, anyways. You know, uh why I'm I'm even here. Um I thought it was for a job, but knowing it was for me to meet her. That's what that was about. Because that the job lasted two months after I met her and we went a different route.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Um you talked about ECU. Um, another thing in your intake form, you mentioned almost losing everything there.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Uh, what happened there? And and was it more of what you just talked about? The reason you lost everything, or is there something else to it?

SPEAKER_01

My night in um 1984, um Ed Emory got canned as head coach of ECU. Him and Ken Carr, who was the athletic coach. Director at the time. They never got along. But the previous year in 83, we went eight and three, losing to the top three teams in Florida. Florida State by one. Florida, I think we lost by six. And then Florida State, Miami, I think we lost two by seven. Something like that. Anyway, went eight and three. Didn't get a bowl bid. Then the next year we went two and nine. That 83 team had a I I would say it was probably eight guys that got drafted and played in the NFL. And uh it was a Ed Emory was one heck of a recruiter and got some good players in there. But anyway, he got fired. Our offensive coordinator, Art Baker, loved the man, love him. Um took over as head coach, and he called us all in before, I think it was before the Christmas break for a team meeting. And we were sitting in there and and he just explained to us, I ain't gonna have no foolishness on this team. If you're gonna be drinking, getting arrested, tearing up stuff, uh, a problem, say goodbye. You're not gonna I don't I don't need it. We're not we don't want this. Art Baker was a strong Christian man as well. Um he never cussed, but he did. He would use words like dab frappett, and you know, um Jimmy the Crickets, which is I used to use that all the time. I stole it from him, but I've kind of backed off of that because I might as well be saying the cuss words instead of Jimmy the Crickets, but whatever. Uh but um in that meeting, you know, he told us what he was and wasn't going to allow. And um it won't a week later, I guess, sometime after that. Well, it was in January when we came back, so it was probably a month later. I we report back from after Christmas break. And well, this nickel draft at the elbow room, and a poor football player. We didn't get no NIL or no payments, um, scrapped up and man, that's 20 beers of nickels. Now those were little old red solo cups, you know, for a dollar. I could scrap up a dollar, you know, nickels.

unknown

Whew.

SPEAKER_01

Um it was a cheap beer, probably like slits or something like that. Tomorrow's gonna be nasty.

SPEAKER_03

Tomorrow's gonna suck.

unknown

Right.

SPEAKER_01

So I I was down there, God number three, women, met a girl, and girl said, gave me her dress, said, Give me about 30 minutes. I gotta go get my roommate out of the room. TM4. So I gave her a little time, and her dorm was right downtown, and went to that dorm and could not remember the dorm room number. Oh boy. So what do I start doing? Starting on the first floor. Bam, bam, bam. You know so-and-so. Bam, I'm beaten on it. Girls are freaking out. I I can't I go up the second floor, third floor, fifth floor, and I'm I mean, I'm beat. I get to the point where I'm just mad.

SPEAKER_06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Because I gotta have my that third God. I gotta, I, you know, man, this was gonna be a great night. Right. And so I just go to tearing up things, pulling fire extinguishers off the wall, uh, billboards, uh, not billboards, but uh boards, you know. I don't know about tore them down. Um, I I just went berserk. Uh and I'll say this: I'm a butt man. Okay. I love the word butt, especially in the Bible. See, you were thinking B-U-T-T. Well, we kind of just were on that same topic of buttons that's why I threw it in there. Um uh I love the word but uh rightfully so. A lot of girls were freaked out, scared to death. They call campus security. Campus security comes and but God, it is the sergeant who I became good friends with while I stood on the sideline.

SPEAKER_03

Because he's right there.

SPEAKER_01

Because he was right there. I won't go and get in the game. Uh I mean, I was a red shirt sophomore. I was down on the depth chart, and uh, you know, I won't want it, I wasn't on no special teams at that time. Yeah. Next thing I know, uh, he comes up and grabs me and says, Saunders, what in the I'm sure. You doing? I was like, I can't find this chick. Will you help me? He says, No, I'm not gonna help you. So he carries me downstairs, puts me in his car, never handcuffed me, uh, calls Coach Baker, that's the butt guy. And Coach Baker said, take him back to his dorm, tell his roommate to have him in my office at seven o'clock the next morning. And um so the sergeant does it, wakes up my roommate Paul Hoggart, and Paul gets me over there. I'm still drunk. I'm I'm still but I ain't I mean it's it I hadn't been asleep two hours.

SPEAKER_06

Right.

SPEAKER_01

And um Coach Baker pulls me in his office and says, Did you not listen to the conversation we had at that meeting? I said, Oh yes, sir, coach. Heard every word, heard every bit of it. And so what he ended up doing was threatening to take football away from me. And that just my heart. That's it. That's what I worship, that's where I found my identity, right? That's who I was. And so he threatened that if I do anything else like that again, you're out of here. And as I was walking out, he just he just looked at me and said, Let me ask you a question. You know Jesus. What do you know Jesus? I'm still drunk, actually. Yeah. I said, yeah, I know who Jesus is. I know who God is. Yeah, I believe in Jesus and God. He said, you don't know him. You need to know him. And so I had to walk back to the dorm room, which he his office was in Scales Field House, over there by the football stadium. So I had to walk through all them fields, go across the railroad track, walk over the belt dorm. And the only thing that would come to my mind was the words of Jeff Patton. When he he even told me this that Sunday night that I was going to Elbow Room that got me in trouble. Hey, Brian, God loves you. Brian, God loves you. All right, Jeff, peace out, appreciate it, brother. I I I I got to go drink and chase women. Love you. Brian, God loves you. It's the only thing I could hear in my head as I walk back to Belt Dorm. It's 7:30, 8 o'clock in the morning. I go beat on Jeff's door. And um that's when I asked Jeff, I said, bruh, I know who God is, I know who Jesus is, I know what they're about, but I don't know. I need to know this God that you said loves me in spite of me. And so it was then that that was April the 25th, 1985, when I came to know Jesus Christ as as a as a good friend.

SPEAKER_03

That's awesome. Yeah. Um what made you what why do you think those words were his words of choice at the time? And then on top of that, um, was it hard for you to believe it when he said it back then?

SPEAKER_01

When he would say God loves me, I knew those words. I knew it. I know when my father became sober and was involved in AA, one of the things is they encouraged people to get involved in a local church.

SPEAKER_06

Right.

SPEAKER_01

And so we started going to uh a local church here, and I was in church. I I was an athlete, what do they call the guys that do the light the candles? Uh uh gosh, I can't even think of it now. But anyway, I did um all the the the church stuff, uh, but I won't, I didn't have a relationship with him. And I knew God loved me, but I didn't care. I did it it wasn't important to me.

SPEAKER_03

Wasn't a factor at the time.

SPEAKER_01

Right.

SPEAKER_03

Right.

SPEAKER_01

I loved me. And I knew I loved me.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

That's all I cared about.

SPEAKER_03

More about but God thanks for making me.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Uh but when when those um what I I think why I think it stuck out so much to me was because Jeff didn't beat me over the head with the Bible. He didn't condemn me, which is I think is a big mistake within the church today. For sure. We we want to condemn people for their sins. We want to uh look at ourselves as being pious and being upright and virtuous and everything, and yet we get a drug addict coming into church, or we get somebody who wants, you know, somebody gay comes into the church, and we want to go, we can't have that in here. Well, how how about you, Mr. Gluttony? How about you, Miss Gossiper? How about you uh uh uh covenant your neighbor's wife? You ain't no better.

SPEAKER_03

No better.

SPEAKER_01

And that's and and I felt you know, it's is in Romans 8, I think it's 8.1. Uh there is therefore now, not in the future, not, but now no more condemnation for those who are in Christ. Right. And so when Jess those were, I truly believe it was God who put those words back in my head and and just like a drum beat in my head. God loves you, God loves you. Um and so I I I don't think I had, I think, I think God had me right there. And I think he was grabbing me by the the collar to Jeff Patton's room, dorm room, and um I think it was, you know, that's those words were so comforting. Correct. And and when and yet so far away that I couldn't comprehend it. That I had to find out who this God that Jeff was talking about was. Was it easy to accept? No. I was uh is that Rocky Maciana? Who is that rock poster of with the blood coming out of his nose? Dustin Poirier. Okay. That was me, but that won't blood coming out of my nose. That was me in Jeff Patton's room. Yeah. Uh just boo-hooing, and I can't explain it. I don't think nobody could truly explain it. But the the the freedom, chains, bondage, most of it was gone. Right. And so therefore, it was not hard to accept. What was hard was walking in that later, and I struggled in that. And I um I struggled with my past sins. And I tell you, the biggest thing I struggled with was not the drinking, because I quit that just like that. Yeah. Um, the biggest thing is what I had done to women, to girls. Um, how I treated them, pieces of trash. Used and abused them. Told them what they wanted to hear until I got what I wanted. Then I kick them to the curb. Um that was a hard pill to swallow.

SPEAKER_04

Still to this day. Struggle treating people like that.

SPEAKER_01

But I came to I I told God one day, I said, Lord, I can't do this no more like this. The burden's too big. These past sins, they they just weigh on my shoulders. And I said, I need a word. And I was reading my Bible every day. I said, Lord, I'm just gonna put my hand on this Bible and I'm gonna open it up. And I need a word. And open up to 2 Corinthians. And I just I don't recommend this, y'all. This this is foolishness, but it's a reality.

SPEAKER_02

I just stuck my finger at a spot. Second Corinthians 5, 17.

SPEAKER_01

Um where Paul speaks of the old is gone, the new has come. How amazing is that. I can't explain again the freedom I got from that. Correct. I can't explain the freedom I got from Romans again. There's no more, no more condemnation. It was so freeing. And that's when I finally felt the totality of the chains being released, and the ball, iron balls I was uh hooked to. Yeah. Um do I still have days? Yeah. Uh I haven't really thought about that that much until right now, as far as those past sins. I mean, it does pop up.

SPEAKER_06

Right.

SPEAKER_01

But I know I'm free of that.

SPEAKER_06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Christ doesn't see, God doesn't see me as the old You're not that person anymore. I'm not that person. Right. I've been set free. When he looks at me, even in the sins I'm in today, he don't see that.

SPEAKER_06

Right.

SPEAKER_01

He sees me clothed in the in the garments of Christ.

SPEAKER_06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

You know, so uh that's freedom.

SPEAKER_06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

You could point your finger at me all you want, my past sins, my sins today. And I don't see, I I I think too, we have to be careful. I don't want people to get the idea that you can be a person who um just freely sins and God's gonna forgive you. No, no. That's you, that's that's that vending machine, God. Yeah, you know, um, yeah, God, I love you, but I'm gonna still go do that. No. No.

SPEAKER_03

You have to change.

SPEAKER_01

That's repentance. Yeah. Turning 180, putting your back to things. It ain't gonna happen overnight. Still happening in my life today. I still have struggles. I'm a very imperfect and um flawed individual. Yeah. But I know who I am. Yeah. And who's working on me.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. And I think that's still built, because you know, like we said earlier, the insecurities. I think stuff like that, you know, of course, your relationship with God helps the insecurities, but that past is still there as you're the person. So that for like for me, for example, because I might kind of got the same story as the way I treated women and stuff, it's not it's not good. And I and I always laugh and say, That's why God gave me two daughters. Yeah. So I have to stare at it every day. Um, because you know, that's why I always say, like, whoever they date poor, because I know exactly what you're trying to do, every every angle. I was that guy. You know.

SPEAKER_01

Can I give you some freedom in that?

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

I did the same thing with Brooke. Um, from the time she was born to the time she started dating. And when I say dating, boyfriend in middle school, I prayed about that daily. And that was a that was another ball and chain on me. And then God one day just broke me of that. And we've raised our children to be godly people and to trust in the Lord. Are they gonna make mistakes? Absolutely, you darn right.

SPEAKER_03

For sure.

SPEAKER_01

Are they gonna date somebody that you may not like? Yeah. But you know what? I can't do a thing about that. And if I try to block that or somehow manipulate her to do what I wanted her to do and protect her from what I was, the monster I was, it's gonna backfire and it's gonna ruin my relationship with her. Yeah, and I'll never forget God freeing me of that, and it made life so much easier. So I would encourage you just to yield it. Hold on to it loosely like sand going through your fingers. Yeah. Yeah, you gotta be, you gotta be daddy, but you can't control that. And you'll drive yourself nuts trying to control protecting your little girls.

SPEAKER_03

You gotta control the controllables.

SPEAKER_01

Yes.

SPEAKER_03

Love them, show them what love is.

SPEAKER_01

Plant the seeds, show them you love them, let them know you love them.

SPEAKER_03

And what to expect. And what to expect from a man.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, absolutely.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

My my my family has known, my kids have known my past since they were little. I think Brooke was in kindergarten one time. She went to her teacher after hearing me give, I, you know, used to do FCA at Grover for 26 years. And one day I gave my testimony to one of the groups, and she was in kindergarten. And um she uh heard me give my testimony about being a uh uh drinking and my everything. And um she she went to her teacher the next. Monday and said, My daddy's an alcoholic. And the teacher called my wife and said, I'm so sorry. She said, What are you talking about? Brooke told me that Brian's drinking and he's an alcoholic. Bar bust out laughing. She said, No, she heard Brian give his testimony.

SPEAKER_06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

So, anyway, they know. They I think it's important for our kids to know who we were and what we were and who we are in Christ today.

SPEAKER_03

And that's one thing, you know, especially my dad did a good thing about it. He always was very open with us. Yeah. So I always tell people some of the greatest lessons from my father were what not to do.

SPEAKER_06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

More than what it is. The example maybe he would show me it was I would watch everything he did and he would talk to me too. And I'm like, okay, well, I'm not doing that. Yeah. You already you already failed at it, so I'm not gonna do it. Through your intake, you threw the word pain around a lot. Um why why that word? What that's a heavy word. Pain's a heavy word. So what hurts? What what why do you use that word?

SPEAKER_01

It's it's um I guess from being a small kid early on when my father was an alcoholic. Um and I don't want nobody to get the wrong impression of my father. He was he was being controlled by a substance that had he had no control over. But um my father, if you were awake, he never drank on the job, but every afternoon when he got off the job at the fire station, uh, he went to Caesar's, which used to be um uh, you know where Zaytunes is? You know where that um uh I guess it's a bakery, Mexican bakery. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then there's that two-story building. Well, that used to be Caesar's. The bottom was Caesar's bar and grill, and Caesar lived upstairs. And so my dad would go there every day after work. He'd be there. He'd dragged me in there on Saturday mornings. Um, and um anyway, um, if if you were awake when he came home from Caesar's and been drinking, um, you caught a butt whooping. Whether you were bad, good, indifferent. I think as I think back on that, I think it was because he didn't want us to see him in that light. So there was a lot of pain there early in my life. Um pain through um, you know, I can't say I suffered a lot of pain growing up after that. Middle school was great, high school was great. Um, but there was times in my life where, and probably after college, more so than anything, where um people you wouldn't think would hurt you, that you thought you could trust, that you thought loved you, um, you discover they don't that you're really nothing to them. Um whether it's through jealousy, whether it's through um just their pious opinion of themselves. Whatever. Um I think pain is a natural thing in life. There ain't a soul in this world that hasn't experienced pain of some sort of another. Um but yeah, I mean, I don't know that I'm any different than anybody else, but I've experienced a lot of pain.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Pain of losing both my parents. Man, it's it's not fun, it's not good. Um but I will say this um in the light of that, having my relationship with Christ, he makes the pain easier. Pain don't ever go away. We might bury it back there somewhere, put it in a delete it file over here, but it's like your computer, you don't truly delete it off the mainframe. It's always there. Yeah. Um but um I've learned a lot through pain. I think pain's a great teacher.

SPEAKER_03

Probably the best. Yeah. So it it brings you down to a an even level. You're not too high. Yeah. And you're listening because you're in pain, you know. A lot of people always say, like, you know, everybody reaches out to God when they're in pain. Sure. You need you need help. You know, you don't have any other way to get help, you've exhausted every other thing. So I need it.

SPEAKER_01

It is that statement that I've heard a lot of times. There's no atheist or agnostics in a foxhole. No. During war. True. That's true.

SPEAKER_03

It's facts. I mean, it's never heard that one, but it's true.

SPEAKER_01

You've never heard that? Oh my gosh. Uh yeah. It's so true. Yeah. So true.

SPEAKER_03

And another thing that going off of that, um, and I think I really want to learn where things switched. Um, you talk about family and regret a lot, kind of in the same conversation. Um and you really hit on family really, really hard, kids, marriage, regret. Why do you think it takes most men so long to emit where they missed it? You know, when it comes to family, you know, marriage, regrets. Why do you think it takes it does take men so long to emit pride, ego, self-centeredness. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

We don't we don't like to admit we fail.

SPEAKER_03

Correct.

SPEAKER_01

It's weak if we fail.

SPEAKER_03

That's what we were told.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

So um I must be very weak. Me too. Because I've failed a lot more than I've won. Yeah. And that's what most people don't understand. You know, they you're gonna fail more than you're absolutely. My dad used to tell me all the time, um, you wake up feeling bad for school, or something I don't feel good, or I'm not in a mood, or whatever. And he would always say, You're gonna have more days of those than good days in your life. So learn to enjoy the bad ones.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

You know, and make the bad ones good. Um, and that's always stuck with me, because it is true. You wake up, it's always something. Or you go throughout the day, it's something that that hits you. And you gotta learn to roll with those punches and and make it a good day. It's your choice to make it a good day.

SPEAKER_01

You know where I learned that the big time? 2019. Uh went in for simple hernia surgery. Um had one in my belly button, one in my upper diaphragm. And when I had gone to meet with this doctor and to discuss surgery and everything, um he said, I'll tell you what, I see on your chart you got a high anal hernia, which is you're you know going to your stomach there. And he says, I'll do a two for three. I'll I'll do all three while I'm in there. Well, in that process, he macerated my coronary artery on the bottom of my heart. That's fun. Did not realize it. Put me, finished the surgery, put me in the um recovery. I have no, I have one recollection of recovery. And everything else that I know is from my family. Um, I would be in a lot of pain until the doctor came in, and then I would sit up, act like I was good. I'm a man.

SPEAKER_03

I'm a man.

SPEAKER_01

I'm a good, I'm good, doc.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Third time the doc came in, uh, and the blood pressure machine kept going off, warning that my blood pressure had dropped. And the nurse, according to my daughter, would cut it off and say, the machine's messed up, doc. Because she's like, What's going on? What's going on? And so the nurse says, This machine's messed up. Don't worry about it, he's fine. Well, the third time the doctor came in, I started scooting over into bed. He said, What are you doing, Mr. Saunders? And I told him I'm taking a selfie with, I'm getting ready to take a selfie with Jesus. Um, and then all of a sudden I grabbed my chest and then my head. And I I I don't I think my family said I said my head's about to explode. And it was at that moment the doctor realized something's wrong with me. And um he called in people, and they discovered they did a chest x-ray and discovered fluid in my chest cavity. And um so the only recollection I have is waking up and hearing people screaming, orders being barked, and people running around like cockroaches when you cut the lights on. And I said, Lord Jesus, this can't be good. I closed my eyes. It's the last thing I remember until I woke up. Uh they discovered that. So they opened me up, discovered what it they figured found what the problem was. Um the coronary thoracic coronary surgeon was already in emergency surgery that was on call. So they had to call Dr. Nyphone, my family's hero. Uh he was off that night, not on call. Thank you, Jesus. He wasn't drinking a beer or 12, and he could do the surgery. Well, they um he finished the bypass surgery uh somewhere like at 4 30 in the morning. And um he the funny story is he came in on a Sunday morning. He finished the surgery Saturday morning. He came in Sunday morning and said, he was on his way to church, but God. He said, I have to meet the man who's got the heart of Michael Phelps. Dude, he smokes dope. His heart can't be. I know he can swim good, but he's a dope smoker. He's gonna have some heart damage, I'm sure. He said, nah. He says, dude, your will to live is amazing. He said, you should have died. Most people that lose two and a half liters of blood internally die. They don't survive this, but God. And uh it was just uh it was then in that time after that, and since then, that I think it made me really appreciate my family and my my my loved ones and my friends, my true friends. And um life's just short. Yeah. I mean, my brother had asked me prior to the surgery, Doug, dude, you ain't nervous. He had called me to wish me luck. He says, You you're not even nervous. I said, Why? Simple hernia surgery. He said, I'd be scared to death. I said, dude, if I if I die, I win. I get to be with Jesus. If I survive, I win. I get to be with my family again.

SPEAKER_03

It's win-win.

SPEAKER_01

It's win-win. Little did I mean, little did I know. And did, you know, I had a good friend who insisted on come praying for me before that surgery. Met me at the hospital that morning and prayed over me big time. I'm like, dude, it's a little surgery. But God, see, all these little pieces that you don't see in the moment, you just spin back and you look at them and you go, God's hand is all over it. And, you know, from something so severe as that came the realization that I need to appreciate people and experience and enjoy life to the fullest in Christ. Yeah. Do I do that all the time? No. My wife will tell you that there's days, and usually it's when I'm having complications from where I've got gastroparesis now, and I'm hurting and I'm in pain, but I don't share that, but yet I take it out on people. And she'll look at me real quick and say, Are you hurting? No. Yes, you are. Oh, shut up. No, I'm not. Yeah. But I am. She knows it. Oh, yeah. Thank you. Um, but I have grown to not take family for granted, to cherish every moment you got with family, and to make the best of it. Family's tough.

SPEAKER_03

Oh boy.

SPEAKER_01

It's it's it's You can have a whole podcast on that one. Oh my gosh. You can have a hundred podcasts on that. But anyway.

SPEAKER_03

Was that do you looking back on that, do you think that was perfect timing by God? Like it was it was needing him stopping you in your tracks because of this maybe the season that you've been in when it comes to your family and friends. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I I think not only for me, I think for my family too.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

You know, kids don't. We take our parents for granted. We take spending time with them for granted. We take the fact that they're there for granted. Uh, I think it opened up my children's eyes to the fact that, yeah, dad may be a big, strong guy.

SPEAKER_03

Uh, but he can be taken out.

SPEAKER_01

He can be taken out of here real quick.

SPEAKER_03

Right.

SPEAKER_01

And our our my relationship, I mean, I've always had a great relationship with my family. Um, you know, one of the regrets, you know, that I put in there on the intake form was my, you know, how I raised my kids. Kind of like a drill sergeant. Um, but um especially my son.

SPEAKER_02

Um I wish I could go back and change some things. Right.

SPEAKER_01

How I talked to him, how I reacted to certain things. Um probably one of the biggest regrets was he and I got in a little argument, and Papa Bear came out, and I just grabbed hold of him and pinned him against the wall. Finger in his face and looking in his eyes, see him well up. The fear. He's nineteen years old. And the sadness, the hurt, the pain, disappointment. Disappointment. Yeah. Man, you could have just right there. Yep. I just let go and walked away. I've apologized.

SPEAKER_03

Um, but you know, it's it's well, I can tell you, and I I've been on the other side of that. Yeah. So I I can tell you um it's that's tough. Yeah. It's it's very tough. Your dad's a hero. You know, and you you really don't want to disappoint, which we do all the time.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Um, and I'm the same way. I mean, my my girls are young, and there's already already times I'm regretting. That's but I try to get better every time and every day with it as well. Um I really feel like this is going to be a two-part podcast, me and you. Okay. That's a lot to talk about. Yeah. Um, but before we we close it out, um, I did just want to touch just a few minutes on um what you have going on.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

And what you have been going on, Victory Fishing News uh River Fishers Men. Um, what's going on with that stuff, and how can people find you?

SPEAKER_01

Um uh victory fishing custom charters. Um, I just booked two trips this morning. Awesome. Uh well, I've got to respond to one of them. Um uh they can reach me 252-626-6006. Um they can go to the Facebook page, Victory Fishing. Um, send me a message, Brian Saunders. Um uh same thing with Noose River Fisher, some men in short trail. Uh man, that that poster I put out, I stole, man. You guys knew and and Chris Ivey over there with ECIC, man, been using that AI to make some awesome posters.

SPEAKER_03

So yours look good.

SPEAKER_01

Well, I didn't do it. My wife did. I'm not a tech guy. I I mean, I taught computers for eight years, but I knew the curriculum, but I'm not a tech. I hate computers, I hate technology.

SPEAKER_03

No, they look good though.

SPEAKER_01

But my wife, she's like, hey, tell me what you want. She's on the board, she knew. So uh yeah, they can get to me with the same number. Uh uh since that poster, I've got five people that have called and are wanting to come join the trail and and fish with us. So um that's awesome. That's awesome. Um so anyway, uh that yeah, just call me. Uh I don't mind answering questions uh and uh helping people get you know figure out stuff if they want to come fish with us. Love to have them. Um what we do with the trail is donate the proceeds right back into the local community here. Um and uh we don't give to any nonprofits that are like major, I mean, uh you know, miracle network, I would love to give to them, but you know what? We got people here that we need to take care of. Right. And so in our first eight years, two of them being COVID, we we've donated over$117,000 back into the community.

SPEAKER_06

Right.

SPEAKER_01

So um I'm I told the board I've got a goal this year of us donating 25 grand this year.

SPEAKER_03

Awesome.

SPEAKER_01

I'm trying to light a fire under the butts to go out there and get more sponsors than they are. And I'm doing the same thing. I'm knocking on I've never gone to Pamaco County to get sponsors. I picked up four or five down there the last couple weeks. So uh hope to get a couple more. And uh so anyway, I mean, yeah, it's it's coming up April the uh 18th is our first term and uh looking forward to it just so I can get all this junk behind me. I'm exhausted, I'm not gonna lie. I hate this time of the year as far as the trail goes, uh, because I hate begging for money.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

But for some reason, good Lord has made me good at it.

SPEAKER_03

Well, because you're not begging, it's all for a purpose, and your purpose is very different, and that's one reason I love it, and it's a lot like this podcast, it's about grouping men together, yeah. Um, and having a place to go. And it's a blast. So if if you're if you're into fishing, I definitely suggest signing up for it.

SPEAKER_06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Um, even if you're not even very good, because I ain't very good either. So um it's just a good time. Everybody on it is good people, um, and it's just very good competitive tournament. Exactly. And that's what I like about it.

SPEAKER_01

I I'd like somebody told me uh uh uh the other day is I love the fact that it's like a family. Uh bunch of different guys in there. Yeah, we're competing against each other, but man, I bec you know, they told me I've become good friends with a lot of guys in that trail. And that is invaluable. Oh, for sure. And I've enjoyed that. And we couldn't do it without people like yourself.

SPEAKER_03

Well, I mean, we're just we're just a very small part.

SPEAKER_01

We uh you're a big part, brother.

SPEAKER_03

We just and we appreciate you. We believe in it, and you know, um, but again, I've I've gotten to meet good people. I mean, I'm wearing word of shirts today.

SPEAKER_01

Yep, yep.

SPEAKER_03

Um you know, so it's good stuff. But as we close, Brian, it's something I want to it's one thing I really want to touch on. We'll make it quick. Um, because I just relate to it so much. Um, and I'll probably get emotional on it. Um you said for years you were trying to make your dad proud. Okay. What drove that the most? And what do you mean? Well, what were some things you did to make your dad you're trying to make him proud?

SPEAKER_01

Well, number one, it was a misconception. Um and nothing against this is gonna sound bad, but it's not bad. It's great. Um, my brother Doug was is three years older than I am. He was uh in high school a lot, you know, when he was in, we my dad, you didn't just go play every weekend, go do this, go do that. Your butt was at the house doing something with dad.

SPEAKER_06

Right.

SPEAKER_01

Uh when I was probably in middle school or maybe late elementary, my dad started adding on to the house, the whole side of the house. I was a grunt, I was a gopher. I dug the footings, uh, I went for this, go for that, you know. My brother got to sit down with my dad and draw out plans, talk about it, and I would sit there with such envy and you know, jealousy. Doug's the golden child. You know, he gets to sit with dad and do this. So I I always felt like Doug was uh held to a higher standard. And little did I know when I became high school age and when I uh got into things like sports and and uh became very successful in sports. Uh my dad was very proud of me too. But I had those stupid blinders on that that wouldn't allow me to see it. And so everything I did was just trying to get my dad to say, hey, great job. Um and with that, I'm gonna say to parents, encourage your kids. Quit trying to quit and tell them they're gonna be the next number one draft choice. They're gonna play in the pros. Let them enjoy the moment for the now. Correct. Quit talking about what they're gonna be and putting such great expectations because, in the heart of hearts, if that kid don't ever reach that, they feel like they disappoint dad.

SPEAKER_06

Amen.

SPEAKER_01

And that's sad. Enjoy the moment right then, encourage. Out of the words of my four-year-old granddaughter the other day, she's gonna play T ball this year. So, what does what does Cappy do? I go get her a bat from my house, I get a T, and I get some balls, and I got her out in the backyard hitting off the tea. And she's chopping like every four-year-old. Yeah, and I'm trying to explain to her to get that level swing, to make contact with that ball, to turn her hip. I'm doing all these stupid, difficult things for a four-year-old, instead of telling her how good she's doing. And she finally looked at me and said, Cappy, you are not encouraging me.

unknown

Wow.

SPEAKER_01

What does the Bible say? Out of the word out of the mouth of babes. Again, slap me upside my head. That's amazing. So I just I just want to encourage people. You may think you're not um important to your father. You may not think he um has holds you in a high regard, or he doesn't respect you, but deep down they do. And dads, let your kids know that. Don't be scared to say I love you. Tell your loved ones, your friends. You love them. And um, you know, it wasn't until later in life though when I sat down with my pastor, former pastor, and I was struggling with two things being taken serious, because I'm a jokester. And um little did I know that deep down in the recesses of my heart that I didn't feel like my dad um was proud of me. Right. And it what my pastor revealed to me is number one, God made you the way you are, accept it and be who you who God made you to be.

SPEAKER_03

Correct.

SPEAKER_01

Don't think people don't take you seriously because they're always either laughing at you or calling you a fool. They do, they know that's who you are, and quit trying to get the approval of your father. The only approval you need to be concerned with is your Heavenly Father. That's right. And I'm gonna tell you, from that day forward, my relationship with my father grew unmeasurably, and I will be forever indebted to my former pastor for that.

SPEAKER_03

That's awesome. I appreciate you being so honest.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

That's what it's about. Amen. That's what it's about. And uh, like I said, I really feel like this is gonna be a two-part series. It's just so much to talk about. But I appreciate you coming.

SPEAKER_01

Well, thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_03

I uh I look up to you. Um, you're a good man. Um, so just keep doing what you're doing. Well, thank you. You're making a difference. Um, I appreciate the relationship that we've built over the last few years. Um kind of crazy how that came about. You know, my wife, her whole life, her family, but we've met in a kind of a different way. Um and on in kind of our own way, which is kind of funny. You know, you knew them, but I kind of met you in my own way. So just thanks for coming. Um, I can't wait to have you back on. Um, and we'll talk soon.

SPEAKER_01

I absolutely enjoyed it. Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_03

Awesome. Thank you.