Vivica's Black Magic

We watched so you didn't have to... and this week it's Lifetime's 'Vivica's Black Magic' which follows Vivica A. Fox efforts to turn an all-male dance revue into the ultimate Valentine’s Day fantasy.

Aidan and Noah break down Vivica's presence as a leader, what worked well and what didn't, the impact of the show on the actual Black Magic Live experience in Vegas and what the cast are up to following their titillating debuts on Lifetime.

Follow the On a Real Note Podcast on Social Media:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/onarealnotepod/
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@onarealnotepod
Threads: https://www.threads.com/@onarealnotepod
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@OnARealNotePod

Visit our website: https://www.onarealnote.com/

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:13

Welcome back, No Takers. It's Aiden, and I am once again single on this Valentine's Day.

SPEAKER_01 0:19

Well, and this is Noah Aaron. And my my status is none of y'all's business, but happy Valentine's Day.

SPEAKER_03 0:25

Well to be Andy Cohen, real diplomatic response. Yep. But as we all know, looking at the calendar, Valentine's Day is coming up, and you know, what better way to celebrate than recapping a show about an urban male review? Spareheaded by Viveka Fox. Woo. Now like you in the audience. And you know, also featuring Bolo of Real Housewives of Atlanta theme. Well, in infamy. I don't know. Pick your poison. But if you watch Atlanta, if you're a Bravo girl, yes, that same Bolo. And on the other hand, why have you ever used a male escort service? I don't know if our average listener can afford Bolo. I would hope so. I would hope so. But the advertising company didn't make it seem that way.

SPEAKER_01 1:11

I believe in I believe in y'all. I believe in the money.

SPEAKER_03 1:13

When I approached Canada Goose for a sponsorship, they said, I don't know if your clientele can afford. I'm lying, I never talked to those people. Bolo and his inches are here. A bunch of other, you know, fine men of color and white chocolate.

SPEAKER_01 1:28

And white chocolate. Yeah, so he's no white boy, I'll tell you that much.

SPEAKER_03 1:34

I mean, I mean, he he's built like someone that would have been on Flavor of Love back in the day.

SPEAKER_01 1:40

You know, that kind of like this whole show felt like something that would have been on mid-2000s VH1.

SPEAKER_03 1:47

Right? I felt like honestly, very much was giving VH1. So this actually aired on Lifetime. The full show is called Vivicus Black Magic. Air of January and February of 2017. But it did have more of like a structural but still kind of messier feel that I feel like Lifetime and e shows don't always have. Lifetime can be 50-50 with it, I will be honest. But yeah, I wasn't when I was watching this, I wasn't sure what network it was on. Actually, I have to go look it up because usually I'm able to tell. I feel like I'm not much of a TV watcher. I'm like, oh, this looks like Wii TV. This is some centric shit. Like, yeah, you can you can piece it together, but this didn't feel like the you know archetypical lifetime programming. It was definitely a unique shot. I'll give it that. I haven't seen anything like it.

SPEAKER_01 2:32

Well, it definitely because like I had never heard of this show before. So when you when we were kind of coming up with our black history on schedule, and I saw the name of the show. There was no weekend. Well, I did have an idea for the end of the month, but it it it it's been bumped out. It's been bumped out, but we don't we don't have to talk about it.

SPEAKER_03 2:54

Um you tried to brace, so you tried to brace. It was a work walk contribution.

SPEAKER_01 3:02

But uh yeah, so when I saw the title of the show and the premise and everything, like I literally was surprised to see that A, it was on Lifetime and that B, it was it came out in 2017. I was like, oh, because like literally I just assumed I like I literally just assumed I was like, oh, this is like some I literally assumed this is some like 2000s VH1 bullshit where they were just giving everybody a show for anything.

SPEAKER_03 3:26

That's why it very much felt like that.

SPEAKER_01 3:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 3:30

It definitely probably was part of Vivica's little I don't know, comeback situation. I'm gonna maybe trying to do another business venture trying to establish herself. Not that she's established, you know, re-established herself is probably a better term, but yeah, pretty much the show was about Vivica Fox launching an all-male exotic review aimed at women, ideally in her eyes. And kind of the goal of the show, she's trying to like build this, you know, cast of men and kind of get to the point where she has a professional touring kind of Vegas ready show that she can, you know, have two, three, four, you know, whatever shows in a week and have a little income source.

SPEAKER_00 4:06

Right.

SPEAKER_03 4:07

But you know, I'm curious, you know, I proposed the show to you, you kind of showed how it was different from what you expected. But as you got into it, was it like, you know, as you went through the episodes, was it like what you expected it would be? Kind of once you realized what the premise was? What were you kind of surprised by?

SPEAKER_01 4:22

Surprised by Yeah, it was like yes and no. So I um it was definitely I was I was enjoying it. I was kind of getting I was getting the um I I kind of understood what she was going for with this. Like I was like, okay, I'm picking up on this. And I will say that it ended up being better than I thought it would be. And also, and we kind of went over this as well when we were kind of planning this episode and how we were gonna talk about things and split things up, but I was surprised at how much of the drama came more so from Vivica and her staff rather than the guys themselves. Because I thought, like, I don't know, like going into it, I I thought we were gonna get more of like all the guys, because like we kind of had this thing where like some of the guys were living in the same house and others weren't, the out of towners were living together. I more so thought it was gonna be all the guys in the same house, and we were gonna get a little bit more of like, you know, the guys kind of like partying and fighting, like an I Love New York type situation. So when it wasn't that, and it was more of like actually seeing the work that goes into putting something like this together along with the drama, like for the actual production of the whole thing, rather than just stupid petty shit. Uh I mean, some of it was petty, but it was still like related to the production. I was pleasantly surprised, and I was I I I enjoyed it.

SPEAKER_03 5:45

Rhino. It was an interesting ride. I think similar to you, I guess maybe not exactly similar, but I thought it'd be like more, you know, making the band three season one, where it's like finding the group and it's a kind of a talent shirt. Yeah. But it was more making the band three season two, where it's like, okay, this is the group, or maybe like season three, like, okay, this is the group. We're established, we're rehearsing, we're figuring out the jam and the group dynamics. So it's kind of a different vibe, but I found that very interesting because it's not like a business model you get to see on reality TV a lot. It's not like, you know, there's millions of shows about somebody with a salon or something, or a fashion studio, you know, a boutique. So this is kind of a new venture, and I thought the show was actually structured very kind well. So every episode we pretty much get like a new routine or prompt, some interpersonal drama, and every episode ends with like a performance, and there was build-up because they're kind of like well, not the first episode, that's auditions. They might even have a performance, yeah, but they kind of build up to the last show, which is like in Vegas and kind of trying to sell the tour. I thought it just made sense structure-wise, like it was very well put together.

SPEAKER_01 6:48

Yeah, I yeah, I enjoyed the fact that it was gradually building towards that long-term goal. Like, we kind of saw the short-term storylines, but we had that like overarching long-term narrative of like we're building towards this Vegas uh run. And it kind of it felt like a mixture of like making the band meets like dance moms, meets it, meets baddies. No, there was there was no baddies, nobody fought. Alvester dad would almost swag. No, but almost in the sense that I'm like, these guys are lucky they had Vivica and that this wasn't on Zeus, because if it was on Zeus, they would have had Natalie and she would have been sending them to Dubai. But um I I kind of like that we had like a boss bitch kind of like in the in the head of the whole thing, kind of like, and it kind of felt like that, like, oh, we're gonna get to the bag. Like, that's kind of what it felt like to me.

SPEAKER_03 7:40

It was very much let's get to the bag. That was you're right. That was the kind of energy almost like baddy's like, oh, we're in this together, like Vivica's like the Natalia. I mean, maybe like Jocelyn's cabaret, but less strict, less strict. And less abuse. Yeah, just just a touch, just a touch. You know, we get a mix of like the cast and male dancers, who it definitely were, aside from a few, I would say Bolo, Alvester kind of were main cast members. The rest of them were just kind of there. You really get Vivica and Co. So like her employees, Eureka and Kiana, their main cast members. And you get this rotating, you know, we got three different choreographers throughout the show coming in back and forth. We get some celebrity guest appearances just from, you know, some viv visiting Vivica's show. They throw a party from Lunel. Brandy Glanville is there for some reason. So, you know, there's a good mix of people.

SPEAKER_01 8:31

Yeah. Yeah. And I I feel like that kind of helped keep it interesting. I felt like, because I mean, in a lot of ways, the more like we said, there's that overarching narrative, but there is also the episodic nature of just like we're gonna practice the routine, we're gonna perform the routine, we're gonna do it. So, like, in a way, that could in theory get very stale and boring, but I felt like it didn't. And I think it helped that this was an eight-episode series because if it went on longer, I could see maybe losing interest. But with it being eight episodes, I didn't, I didn't get bored at any point. You know, I enjoyed the whole ride.

SPEAKER_03 9:08

Well, there were some storylines like that fake ass bo Lokiana romance they tried to shoehorn it. That I'm like, y'all could have kept this scene, but you know what? They have to fill the 42 minutes or whatever. But no, I agree with you, like it was pretty watchable, like 42 minutes. Like it was quick, easy to get through, but something you wanted to watch, especially some of them b-roll scenes. I was like, oh, it's bold city over here.

SPEAKER_01 9:29

I know, yeah. I was surprised, I was kind of surprised, especially with it being lifetime, at how much we got of that kind of content. Because I mean they there were some things that had to be blurred. We had to have some pubic hair blurred, but I mean ultimately there was a lot of stuff that wasn't blurred that I was like, oh, okay. Right.

SPEAKER_03 9:48

Well, maybe because maybe this aired after 10 p.m. I don't know. But also they were very like quick B-roll shots, like they weren't giving you 88 seconds of bowls and bolo grinding. It was like, you know, you got a second of bowls and then it jumps to him with a flip or some shit. I guess, but I mean I'm still jumping around.

SPEAKER_01 10:05

I know Bolo is a hell of a performer. Uh but like I just feel like there's just something like something there's something about Bolo that like even no matter what he's doing, when he's on camera, it just feels like a porno. I don't know. I mean fully clothes. Maybe he has the bedroom eyes look kind of locked in. Maybe because because Bolo could be Bolo can be fully clothed, and I'm like, am I watching a porno? What's going on here? What's he about to do?

SPEAKER_03 10:30

Well, it doesn't help that he wore his jeans so low on his fucking waist that his at the top of his ass was poking out, like Portia Williams.

SPEAKER_01 10:38

Right, I know. I there was a few parts where like the pants they were wearing and the way their ass was poking out, it just made me think of that fucking on that legal Kim Kardashian Hulu show Hulu show, the fucking the the like the whale tail like courtroom outfit she wore. I was like, this is ridiculous. I didn't even watch the show, I just saw the still and I was like, this is ridiculous. I need to finish that show, but you know how I get. I'll watch three episodes. Like, hmm, that was cute.

unknown 11:03

Right?

SPEAKER_01 11:03

You were like, ah, I'm done with this. It's very much, it's very much that Toy Story meme. I don't want to play with you anymore.

SPEAKER_03 11:09

Well, sometimes it's just the next day, and I'm just like, well, something I watched, and I just forget about it. But you know, before we get into the show's show, how did you react when Brandy Glanville's ass showed up?

SPEAKER_01 11:20

I mean, I was like, cuz so because you had messaged me before I watched the finale that there was gonna be a cameo that was gonna have me like, oh. Um, and as soon as I saw her, especially the fact that it happened like so early in the episode, I was like, Oh, okay. I mean, like well, because they I know they were on the same season as Celebrity Apprentice, so I guess it wasn't that.

SPEAKER_03 11:42

Okay, yeah, I don't I don't put that together. I was like, why does he beat Brandy Glanville for promo? Why does she even know her?

SPEAKER_01 11:49

I know. Well, why why were why was Brandy Glanville, Vivica Fox, and Kenya Moore, why were the three of them all in the same Celebrity Apprentice season? That's a cra that's crazy casting. I mean, that's good casting, but it's crazy. Um but yeah, no, when she popped up. Well, the thing, I mean, the thing is the first thing I thought was like, oh, that's Brandy's old face.

SPEAKER_04 12:08

Um yeah, it's a good nine years ago.

SPEAKER_01 12:13

That thing, yeah. I mean, we got Brandy's old face. We got the same face that Vivek has had from the 90s till now.

SPEAKER_03 12:20

Um and I guess this was 2017 before everyone had a podcast. So maybe Brandy was doing something special at the time. Oh, yeah, it didn't seem like the right media promotion spot for me. Maybe she just wanted to help her friend Brandy out, get her a little appearance, but Brandy, but I don't know. You know, an urban male review, as they call it.

SPEAKER_01 12:44

Right. Well, because that's the thing, because I'm not really sure, because like I'm not really sure what exactly the demographics would be for Brandy Glanville Unfiltered, especially at that time. Um, because this was like 2017, so this would have been probably filmed in 2016. So this was like around the time that Brandy had like just recently, I think, left the Real House of Beverly Hills.

SPEAKER_03 13:06

That makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 13:07

So she was still mostly well known for that's like still what she was mostly known for.

SPEAKER_03 13:11

I guess whoever liked Brandy on Beverly Hills to listen to the podcast in 2017.

SPEAKER_01 13:17

Right. But yeah, no, I I didn't tackle seeing Brandy of all people. I was like, Brandy fucking Glanville.

SPEAKER_03 13:23

She was like the last person I expected to see here, but yeah, we got a Brandy Glanville cameo on episode eight as Vivica trying to promote the review. Yeah, not sure, you know, if it was so effective as you know. So I'm gonna get in the field of marketing.

SPEAKER_01 13:37

I I mean Brandy Brandy's a horny ass bitch, so maybe horny ass bitches listen to her podcast.

SPEAKER_03 13:42

That's true, that's true. But let's get into some of our favorite and most memorable moments from the show.

SPEAKER_01 13:51

Yeah, let's talk about it. Because I mean, there was definitely some interesting moments sprinkled throughout. Um so I guess for me, well, I mean, I guess just if I don't know, we want to go in chronological order necessarily, but just like from the premiere, the amount of men during the auditions that did fucking ballet moves that means something. And and and and then when they wanted that if I see another damn ballet movie, I have that right now too. Eureko was so pissed. I mean, it literally felt like fucking on the opposite end, it felt like when on Dance Moms, when Abby Lee Miller took them girls to the ballet school to audition, and she told Mia to go in there and do a death drop, it's like, nah. Wrong audience.

SPEAKER_03 14:34

Yeah, I was surprised. I feel like I don't I want to see what the casting call was because there was a very diverse mix of men, dance styles, bodybuilds, races, to the point Vivica walks in like a high Asian persuasion.

SPEAKER_01 14:49

I don't know now. I was like, that's crazy. The way that she just the way that I was just going in the hallway while these guys were bringing up, and she just said that some random stranger was like, Are you you talking strangers? Like I guess you're Vivica Fox, so yeah.

SPEAKER_03 15:01

Right. Maybe you're the one doing the casting. But then she didn't like just to not pick his ass. But at least he got some screen time. But you know, I feel like agents were just sending their people out, and maybe Vivica was like, sure, why not? Because there was a lot of dance sounds there, but then they mixed in the good auditions with the bad.

SPEAKER_01 15:18

And kind of like American Idol. And what I I cackled when Vivica, the one guy was doing his little routine, and Vic Vival's talking about my kill Bill about to come back. I was like, Oh, Vivica.

SPEAKER_03 15:29

And one guy was one guy was upset and did not choose. He called himself the biggest Mexican. I I I thought he was all guy selected.

SPEAKER_01 15:39

But he's one guy. There was one guy on the audition, his name was Shogun, and he had some crazy ass tongue. Yeah, well, then he had that freaky ass tongue work and was getting under the table and shit.

SPEAKER_03 15:52

Right? I was like, Oh, yeah, I mean they should have thrown him in as a wild card. He wasn't as buffer built as the other guys, but yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:00

Well, I love though, because that from that audition, they started like what would be a running theme throughout the season, which was Vivica basically being like, I'm not I this is a classy operation, we're not getting too nasty in here. And that did end up being a running theme.

SPEAKER_03 16:13

I love how she was like, I enjoyed being on the other side of the table telling these men. You need to keep it tight in right. And she did repeat that quite several times over the course of the show.

SPEAKER_01 16:22

She did. I love I love some of Vivica's just like her her little things, you know, like when she would walk into a room talking about hola hola hola. Especially there was a few times where like it would be a tense ass moment, and then suddenly Vivek comes walking through, hola, hola, hola.

SPEAKER_03 16:40

I I do remember there was one scene where like Darren or whatever was about to scrap without Vesta or something. Vivico just walks in, like, hello, I don't like the outfits. It's me. I mean, if she definitely played the role of like slightly out of touch, but well-intentioned, but you know, forceful leader quite well.

SPEAKER_01 16:58

I think I think just being Vivica Fox just you know makes it quite easy, but well, yeah, because I think there's some there were some parts where in a lot of ways, like the things that she was demanding, or something it seemed ridiculous. Like there were some parts where I was like, okay, but like because it was Vivica Fox, I'm like, you know what, it's Vivica Fox.

SPEAKER_03 17:17

So right, it's it was equally as out of touch as she was like, Oh, you can tell she cares about these boys, really wants to craft an experience, and you know, carved out a unique lane, but also you know, get the entertainment cues and all.

SPEAKER_01 17:29

Right. Well, and I feel like honestly, her like worst moments on the show felt very much like producer storyline driven.

SPEAKER_03 17:36

So it's like I can't even necessarily go in and just change some shit up. Is this your vision? Nothing, yeah. It felt like that what you came and said, I don't like the vest, just completely made them switch it. I went to change the dance from a Caribbean dance to an Egyptian dance. I was like, Vivica, don't really rehearse that.

SPEAKER_01 17:56

That's a and that's one of those moments where that felt so obviously like they couldn't break the fourth wall and make it obvious that it was just producer-driven, so they had to be like, oh, Vivica's just fucking demanding.

SPEAKER_03 18:06

That's true.

SPEAKER_01 18:07

Because Vivica was being ridiculous in that scene where she's just like comes in and completely changes the theme, wants to change the choreography, the costume, just everything like at the last possible minute, and they're and like everyone's like giving very reasonable concerns, and she's like, Well, make it happen.

SPEAKER_03 18:22

And you know what? Eureka tried her best.

SPEAKER_01 18:25

Eureka tried her best. Right. I mean, I felt like I mean the Egyptian thing was kind of a disaster, but I felt like they they did okay in kind of rebounding, all things considered.

SPEAKER_03 18:36

I mean, this was 2017, because a few years later that content would have been dragged.

SPEAKER_01 18:42

Right, I think, yeah, definitely it would have been it would have been considered very problematique. But then again, now if it was today, you with with all this anti-woke sentiment, that it might be okay again.

SPEAKER_03 18:54

The world may never know. But I'm sure Vivica will try in the great 2026.

SPEAKER_01 18:59

Well, definitely, yeah. I feel like Vivica's gonna do what Vivica wants to do.

SPEAKER_03 19:03

That's true. But it's funny to me, like you said, the men really weren't the main characters or conflicts, but I would say the main feud of the season was between a castmate Alvester and the choreographer Darren. Who probably had the most explosive blow-ups on the show. But Darren's in maybe three or four episodes of the eighth, so they're really both.

SPEAKER_01 19:27

Pretty much every time Darren and Alvester were in the same room, it was a situation. I mean, obviously, a big moment that stands out from the season is kind of closer to the end of the season when Darren and Alvester have their big blow-up because he's experiencing some knee pain, and he basically just says, I'm not gonna do the fallout thing in this rehearsal and hurt my knee or whatever. And they and they'd already had so much beef building up the entire season that Darren's immediately like, bitch, fuck you. Um, and then and then it all kind of comes to a head with Alvester calling Darren the N-word, which Darren was very upset about. And you know what's funny is prior to just to confirm, uh lucky. Yeah, well, that and that's what I was gonna bring up is prior to watching the season, I had heard like I had read in like the thing like we're reading up about the season that there was gonna be some kind of conflict about Darren the choreography getting called the N-word and being upset about it. So I'm thinking of white topic, yeah. No, I was literally sitting here thinking it was gonna be one of the non-black guys. I was like, oh shit. So then well, because the thing is sometimes I for sometimes I forget that there are um there are black people that like don't like the n-word like at all. Like they don't want anyone to say it. Because like there are some there are some people that have that opinion of like nobody should say it.

SPEAKER_03 20:40

And then obviously there's a lot of other people that have the opinion that like well if you're gonna go for like the situation, he's like your boss in this moment.

SPEAKER_01 20:47

Right. One thing, yeah. And and I and so Darren made it clear though, that pissed him off. And he basically said he said, You better you better get together before I for I forget these cameras are here and rock your shit. And it's like whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

SPEAKER_03 20:59

But Alvastor got right back in his face like he was Candy Burris, he wants to go get put. I mean, that's I think out of all of them, Alvastor's the one. Right? I mean, I don't know. He had you know, he had them wild eyes. If you look into his eyes, in one confessional scene, he would have hella bags under his eyes in the next, they'd be clear. I'm like, did you go to a spa? Did you not sleep the night before this one? Either way, I wouldn't want to get on his bad side.

SPEAKER_01 21:27

Well, he looked very and I and the thing is I I'm really I'm not trying to be rude or like anything like that, but I'm just pointing out something. But like he definitely they had him, they had his face beat in his talking heads because his skin did not look that clear and good when uh like outside of the talking heads.

SPEAKER_03 21:44

Well then they maybe just going through a lot. And also to give context to Alvester and the choreographer, Alvester's probably the most talented dancer in the group, in the troupe. And probably not to sound rude about it, but probably too talented for what this is. I think Darren and Employer were out to Britney Spears. So I think it was an ego thing between them, but Alvastor clearly seemed like a very bored student in class, you know?

SPEAKER_01 22:15

Well, yeah, when Alvester made it clear too throughout the throughout the like the season that he also like the exotic dancing was not necessarily the end goal for him. It was just a stepping stone on his way. Because he he had like an actual aspirations for like a music career. Like he wanted to do songs. He's a singer as well as a dancer. So I mean he had aspirations for like a career kind of outside of the exotic dancing world. Um so I feel like to him, he kind of in some ways wasn't necessarily taking it as seriously as some of the other guys. Because some of the guys made it clear they were like, they're like, no, I'm doing I have a family to feed, I got kids.

SPEAKER_03 22:55

Yeah, this is what they do. I do think like he and Bolo were both there to raise their profiles in a way just outside of dancing. But I think because Bolo was so prolific in it and seems to have like a more chill personality and like I don't know, smarter business sentence than Alvester. I think Bolo just wanted like TV opportunities at large. So we're just using this and maybe Vivica. Not like using, but like the show and his network with Vivica smartly and maybe slower. But Alvester was like, I'm a star bitch. So yeah, I I feel like they both kind of had that. Bolo seemed more like smart and cautious about it, more like he had a plan. Yeah, you know.

SPEAKER_01 23:31

Well, like I feel like Bolo, they were both cocky and a little bit arrogant, but Bolo had like a more controlled, subdued way about it. Like he had more of like that silent arrogance, while Alvester's a little bit more like loud and obnoxious with that.

SPEAKER_03 23:48

Yeah, it was also like earned, like the veteran at the work the workplace was kind of like done it and is like good at it, you know? Yeah, Alvester's kind of like and he yeah, and he didn't seem to have like bad reputation either. Like the other guys seemed to like really fuck with him and look up to him.

SPEAKER_01 24:02

That's the thing, is because when they kind of the way they introduced Bolo, where like Viveka brought him in, was like, oh, he didn't, he didn't have to audition like the rest of him. Like he's just in it. Like to me, it kind of felt like they were setting up like he was gonna be the one they were all gonna be having conflict with because of like jealousy and shit, but it really didn't turn out that way. He was actually like being helpful and kind of like in a brotherhood type way, like teaching and uplifting the guys a little bit. Well while shade, like lightly shading them, lightly shading them.

SPEAKER_03 24:29

You know, they tried to play up like him and Slow-Mo, but in the beginning, and there was a lot of like T and chirps about like oh, LA guys, you know, they they're very territorial, they don't work together, but the rest of the city seemed to do. So I think Slow-Mo was an LA guy, so there was some conflict there, but it really wasn't as drama or prevalent as you know Darren and um Alvester. But you know, it was pretty chill. It seemed like Bolo's very much like, let's get to the money, let's all eat. I'll get the biggest cut, but we're all gonna get some money. Right. Well, I think, yeah, and I and I get it. But I mean, if if you see it, like like just like you saw with in within the show, within all the dimensions of it, Bolo pretty much had it all. Like, if it wasn't if it was America's next top model style, he would have won. Cause we get a diversity of like kind of challenges and stuff in the show. And I will say, for some reason with the dance season of choreo, I couldn't have stopped cackling. Something about seeing these big ass men do this choreo damn near shirtless in some shorts. Right. It's just like it's giving Vivekus cabaret. I don't know it was just funny to me.

SPEAKER_00 25:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 25:30

But there were a few other things. There were like there were some modeling shots, like there were some regular dancing. So I'm like, you saw that some guys were good at like some things, like charm was a good model, could find his light. You know, not so great in motion, not the best dancer. Albester, great dancer, but you know. That attitude. That attitude, really, everything else sometimes struggled. He all he did was like lick feet, truly. Penetration could own the stage, you know, great stage presence. Bolo had it all. And the Bolo. It was like well, that it was like even when they had the little modeling shots and he showed everyone shot. I'm like, oh, Bolo would be like the first call out. Some of y'all would be up for elimination. Charles. A good modeling shot, too. I will say he can he can photograph. Yeah, wow.

SPEAKER_01 26:15

Well, Bolo is. I mean, he wasn't like, he's not lying when he describes himself as like a full-scale like entertainer. Because I mean, he puts on a hell of a show. Like when he's like whenever he's on stage doing his flips and stuff, where it's just like one after another, after another, after another, and it just keeps going. I'm like, what the hell? That doesn't even look like some of the stuff Bolo does does not look like humanly possible. I was like, is this CGI? What's going on? Who knows what he's doing?

SPEAKER_03 26:39

Like, they very they don't have to tell you that Bolo's cut above a cloth from the rest of them. They like show you very clearly in the show.

SPEAKER_04 26:45

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 26:45

And the women's reactions. And it's not just the inches, he's jumping around, he has a signature move where he dives into the pussy. And the woman is there with her legs open.

SPEAKER_01 26:54

Right. I know.

SPEAKER_03 26:58

And Bolo was with white chocolate, and Bolo's just doing his thing, and you see white chocolate just walk around in the back like when Ice Spice was with Taylor Swift on stage and didn't know what she was doing.

SPEAKER_01 27:07

Just occasionally shaking ass.

SPEAKER_03 27:10

Just occasionally shaking ass. Mina, but how did you enjoy the like the choreo? You know, the more gratuitous shots, seeing it all come together, seeing the performance of it all. Like, how was that aspect of the show for you?

SPEAKER_01 27:23

I mean, I think it was fun. I've always been kind of a fan of that kind of programming. Not to say that dance moms is the same thing as this, but I mean like that because that is obviously not the same type of performance. But um, I think with like shows like this, Dance Moms, America's Next Top Model, um, any show where they're kind of taking people who have like a talent, like a kind of a base talent and building them up, building skill, practicing, getting better and stuff. I like that kind of content. I like seeing kind of the evolution and seeing people improve, seeing kind of like the whole thing come together uh from the beginning to end, seeing kind of the initial choreography stage all the way to this to the actual performance. So I like I did like that part, and I kind of like the structure of it. Um, and I will say these guys were lucky because they got a full seven days to learn their routines. The little girls on dance moms had three days if they were lucky. Right. The girls on Brinkett only got a couple days too.

SPEAKER_03 28:17

They were Miss Diana was having them do a lot. But you're right, I do enjoy a show that you know has a weekly performance built-in.

SPEAKER_01 28:24

Yeah. One thing I like seeing the progression because I feel and I feel like throughout the season you do see kind of the whole thing coming together, and you kind of see like you kind of see like the you kind of see the choreography upgrade, you see the costuming upgrade, you see the stage, you see the stage and like the setup get more elaborate and everything. So I like that. Right.

SPEAKER_03 28:45

They changed up the outfits every week. There was kind of a different theme. Mm-hmm. It was cute. Although I will say white chocolate struggled to find rhythm the whole show, but some improvement. Charm improved.

SPEAKER_01 28:58

Yeah. I think he I think Heat gradually got a little bit better throughout. I just I love that a running theme for Heat was there. Like, he's not fucking counting the steps. He always too. He was always up like he was counting his head. Well, see, and that's the thing, but like I I kind of like having the mixture though of like different levels of I guess kind of natural talent on the show. Because that because that would be me. Like, the thing is, I am not like a naturally gifted dancer. So if I were someone who was gonna like learn choreo and stuff, I would be the same way. You would see me in my head thinking about each step before I do it because that's like I I don't have that natural flow, right?

SPEAKER_03 29:37

I only need to do it a few times when I'm gonna have my own stink on it, but you're gonna get it how I'm gonna do it.

SPEAKER_04 29:43

But no, you're right.

SPEAKER_03 29:44

I think it was also just like natural for what the medium is. It's like you gotta cast body first, you can't just have a bunch of balladers like they're trying to be sexy if they don't got it, you know.

SPEAKER_01 29:54

Right, because I mean there's a certain level, uh, yeah, like you said, like you can't always get the full package, like they can't necessarily all be bolos where they're attractive, they've got the body, they've got the dance technique, they've got the appeal and the natural stage presence. Like, sometimes you're not gonna get everything all in one hand.

SPEAKER_03 30:10

You gotta mix it up, you gotta someone who looks more boyish, maybe that looks more shy-ish. Maybe you gotta like you know, you gotta throw in the white boy, you got the cocky one like bolo, you got black skins, brown skins, you gotta have you know options.

SPEAKER_01 30:22

Yeah, it makes sense because everyone has their own preferences, and you want to be able to appeal to as much of the audience as possible with something like this, right?

SPEAKER_03 30:31

But no, for sure. It was very interesting seeing how it all got put together, and you know, see, I I understand it was a performance. I was like, Oh, they're doing full-on choreo leading up to the final show. They were talking about eight-hour rehearsals, and for some reason I did not realize that like the finale show is like, oh, this is like a show show, they're doing like all the routines back to back with costume changes and all. I was like, oh, this is hard, you know, because usually the other ones they were just doing one routine and then they all did their solos, and that was it. But this was like multiple group routines, multiple solos of production, and I was like, Oh, no, what no wonder they're rehearsing so damn much.

SPEAKER_01 31:05

Right. Well, and the s and to me, like leading up, the solos always seemed very like improv y, like the like the the group dances seemed choreographic. The solos to me always read very much like they kind of were just like, go out there and do what you do.

SPEAKER_03 31:17

Right. A little freestyle moment. It was cute to see what everyone came up with. And when they demoted white chocolate that one week, because he didn't know the steps, and he had to go collect the money and like the bitch at the drag show, who does the door entries.

SPEAKER_01 31:32

Right. Yeah, I know, and it you definitely saw Vivica throughout the throughout the season get very fur because she could be like very sweet and nurturing, but she could also be very firm and scary at the same time.

SPEAKER_03 31:43

And she had the substitutes wait, and she was like, Well, well, I brought I brought in an understudy. He was from auditions, but you know, y'all better watch out. I was like, okay, I think that would be added to the plot more. Didn't really like he did one performance that was kind of like there was no tension around it. Like if they did fire out Vester, but that wasn't until after he said fuck black magic.

SPEAKER_01 32:04

Yeah, no, especially like throughout because I think it was like around halfway through when they did the Egyptian look, and and like Vivica really went off when they performed the dress rehearsal in front of her. She was like pissed, she was like, that was awful. Like, and she was basically like, She's like, Your ass can get cut. So, like at that point, like I thought we were gonna start seeing guys, a few guys get cut and replaced, but we didn't that didn't really happen.

SPEAKER_03 32:27

You know, it's kind of the same Elite Eight as she called them throughout. Even in episode two or three, Slow Mo had a mistake where he had a wardrobe malfunction, just kind of stopped dancing, so it looked weird. And Vivico's like, uh-uh, uh uh uh uh to the back. I know they wanted to run into it. No, she's she's gonna be able to get it. And they all got mad at him, they were cursing him out, and he got mad back.

SPEAKER_01 32:44

Yeah, right. What I mean, that's the thing though, is like it. I I get it though, because it's like when you're performing in front of everyone like that, you know, things like wardrobe malfunction, slips, like shit's gonna happen, and you gotta be like if you're gonna be a professional, you gotta be able to just keep it moving.

SPEAKER_03 33:00

The show must go on, whether it's go-go, musical, you know, girl. You gotta keep it going, girl. Whatever happened, the audience don't know. You know, that show been 101. How do you not know that he's a professional?

SPEAKER_01 33:14

Yeah, we also had a running theme throughout the season was uh Eureka and Kiana's relationship kind of working together. And it was interesting because like that when it started out, it seemed like they were fine. Like we had we even had like we had them kind of like sitting down talking, we had them like outside of work, like that little scene of them putting together a weak ass little fruit ball and drinking some wine. Um, and then like it felt like out of nowhere, um I don't know if this was like a pro it probably was producer-driven, but it felt like out of nowhere Eureka was like, Oh, I'm I'm gonna go against Kiana and start some mess.

SPEAKER_03 33:50

Um Kiana was just doing some mess.

SPEAKER_01 33:54

I mean, I felt like the thing is I felt like up until that bolo storyline, closer to like in the second half of the season, I really felt like Kiana was being maligned. I felt like her character was being maligned unfairly.

SPEAKER_03 34:09

Cause like I'm well she she she was bad at her job. So you didn't need to call her a hoe, but she was always gallivanting with the boys.

SPEAKER_01 34:18

Yeah, about the beach with her titties out. That was a little crazy, especially right after she had been called out for like what she for um but say type of oh I don't think I felt bad. I felt bad for her though, basically being called a whore. I was like, I was like, just because she is just because she's a little fun and flirty does not make her the whore of Babylon. I was like, this is a little ridiculous.

SPEAKER_03 34:41

Well, I I think Eureka tried to keep it cute, but when she clearly wasn't listening, I think Eureka got upset. But I was on her side because she was trying to be from a cautious place of like, oh, I've been here before, you know, because she was like, these guys seduce women professionally, and it's just like, you know, just watch your side.

SPEAKER_01 34:57

But I couldn't tell if she was really getting caught up, Arca was giving storyline, but well, Eureka was well, I mean, Eureka was also really shady though, for like the some of the specific complaints, like not bringing them to Kiana first, and then like throwing her under the bus in front of um the Vicals, like, oh, we're playing this game. That was a little messy. That was a little messy. It it felt opportunistic to me. And I I I enjoyed Eureka. She definitely was one of the good driving sources behind a lot of storylines on the show, and she definitely helped keep shit moving and make it and made the show fun and interesting and kept the drama going. But there were some things where I was like, now Eureka, I know that stiff Bob with the unplucked part. Don't got you acting like that. And then the the part the the part was not plucked, that was a very full part. I cannot confirm nor deny that. But the part was not plucked, it was not plucked.

SPEAKER_03 35:50

I love me some Eureka. She was she was she was the real leader getting shit together. You could clearly tell she had done this before when it was clear Keanu had it, which they did make a point of in the show that like this was the largest show she had worked on, maybe she was new to this. Yeah. Because in the finale, you kind of see like the behind the scenes of it, you know, the guys doing their quick changes, you know, having to run around on stage left, stage right. And Keanu just walking around, flirting, taking pictures for social media. Meanwhile, they call the guys out there. Only Boba walks out. He's looking like, Well, I'm a professional. He's like, I know what I'm saying. Well, yeah, like I wouldn't know. She was just always running around, always late, not understanding her cues, you know, lighting or whatever.

SPEAKER_00 36:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:34

Well those Okay, I was definitely fully on Eureka's side in her and Darren's beef because I felt like Darren was being ridiculous. I felt like Darren has a hell of a I feel like he has a hell of an ego. And um when I feel like initially when Eureka first kind of confronted him, I felt like she was keeping it cute and professional at first until he started going off for no reason. And then she kind of went off a little bit and gave it back to him. But like, I I really I really felt like she was justified in what she said to him. I felt like it was all very accurate.

SPEAKER_03 37:13

I mean, you know, he clearly has an ego about himself which makes sense for somebody releasing a documentary about themselves on Tubi, but which is which was recently released. If we so we cover that, Darren's dance grooves. I don't really know. No take us.

SPEAKER_00 37:27

Let us know if that if you're interested.

SPEAKER_01 37:31

Um, but yeah, and I kind of felt like because like Viveka herself was kind of complaining uh whenever Darren just like dropped and was like, Oh, I got another gig to do by. Um, so I mean Vivica herself was pointing out that it was ridiculous, but then like if Eureka pointed it out, it was a problem. So I didn't get that.

SPEAKER_03 37:48

I don't know. Even Darren and all that's her whole situation seemed to be ego, like, well, I have this credit, do I have this credit? Well, I'm in charge. Well, I'm better. Yeah. It was just like Darren's whole, he has one of them condescending bitch voices that like you probably had a professor or teacher who had one of them that just made them extra annoying. But he had one of those voices. And it was just like, oh god.

SPEAKER_01 38:08

Yeah, made it worse. I will say, I will say though, that like Alvester and his inability to like get along and work with a choreographer, and also the way that like he like he was like another like new choreographer. I'm like, you want to like work in the music business, but and you want to be a dancer, a singer, and whatnot, you're gonna have to work with a lot of choreographers. You're gonna have to be able to work with any choreographer. Um, I was like, so the fact that you're so unwilling is kind of it doesn't it doesn't bode well for you, Alvester. Right?

SPEAKER_03 38:40

It was to the point where I'm like, well, did they put you on the show just to cause conflict? Like, is this your job? Because it clearly you don't even want to be a stripper for real, or a dancer, whatever they brand themselves as.

SPEAKER_01 38:53

Um, well, and on the topic of choreographers, I mentioned this to you before we start recording, but I felt like Javanta, she was done very fucking dirty on this show, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_03 39:04

I felt like they were calling her the horror babbler.

SPEAKER_01 39:07

What they I felt like she came in like the guys were very like had very misogynistic attitudes towards her. Um I felt like she wasn't interested. Yeah, and I felt like she wasn't really giving a fair shake because she barely it's like she got to I think she choreographed two routines. Both, in my opinion, were good. Um, but I felt like the second one, the you know, the Egyptian one, I I really felt bad for her because like basically they brought her in, had her choreograph the whole routine, do the whole thing, get it polished and cleaned up. And then the last minute, they're like, Oh, we're completely changing the choreography, we're changing the theme, we're changing everything, and you just gotta make it work. And then she had like half the guys were out of town at that point and couldn't even properly rehearse the new choreography. And then they want to blame her, and the next episode would be like, and in the next episode, they want to be like, Oh, yeah, she didn't really, she she can't do shit. Like, they were like shading her skills as a choreographer. I felt like all in all, she was done dirty, and if I were her, I would have been pissed when this aired. Right? No, definitely was a little weird.

SPEAKER_03 40:08

I will say you know, didn't come across for her as a choreographer, but yeah, y'all are remarkable. Y'all are making me wet was a little bit more like you could have packed it a little classier, you could have packed it up a little classier. But if she didn't have a bad choreographer, but maybe they wanted a man, I don't know. Maybe had she done this before? Was she just doing someone a favor? Like it seemed very random.

SPEAKER_01 40:31

Yeah. Well, I felt like I feel like Herbert Sim was letting her titty pop out. Like you, you should have had that unlocked, girl. But other than that, like I I felt like you were done dirty. Beautiful girl, though. Beautiful girl. Beautiful girl, beautiful girl. And I I thought a good choreographer. I thought she was better than Darren's ass, to be honest. I don't know if no depth to it. Darren would just soap his ass. Well, and I feel like and I feel like the guys kind of pointed out that they they considered Darren's choreography dated, and he got really pissed about that. And I feel like sometimes he did get pissed about that. I feel like sometimes when you are kind of in that when you're in like a when you're kind of like in a creative career field, you're like an artist, basically, and you've been doing it for a really long time, you've had a lot of success. I feel like some people in those fields they struggle to keep up with the times because they are so high on their own supply and think that their shit is so good. And I mean it may be good, but it's like you gotta, you know, times change, styles change, standards change. You gotta be able to keep up. Yeah, you gotta be willing and open.

SPEAKER_03 41:39

No, I definitely got that. I remember that. He was so mad about that. Like, well, if it's dated, it's dated. And you wanna oh, he did the same that was like, well, in the past, I'm quite after so-and-so. And I was like, well, yeah, that's the past. Yeah, it's the past. You gotta, it's about the present. A damn mess. You know, I could not stand Aaron. But you know, Alvester was the rudest of the last little dance hall choreographer they brought in. And she was being perfectly nice, trying to introduce them to a new style, add a little culture. You know, I was excited for that. I was like, okay, dance hall. But he was like a waste of time, nah, nah. Just being negative from job. Yeah. Like she is being so kind and reasonable, she came in respectful, she owned the room.

SPEAKER_01 42:15

Yeah. When I I put it my I put in my notes as soon as I said they were doing a dance hall theme, I was like, oh, this is Aiden's episode. Yep, yeah. But one, and I mean, I'll back. He even said it with his full chest that he's like, I don't think that women should be choreographing men. I'm like, what? What sense does that make? I was like, I don't understand. Since when, since when can one gender only be choreographed by the same gender? Like, that made no sense to me. I was like, a choreographer is a choreographer, right?

SPEAKER_03 42:46

You think she like doesn't get it? Uh like I don't know. Especially because like her, she seemed to, I don't know. Javante, I think she got caught up in the moment and was just like, oh, but I think her she owned the room, she's being professional, she knew what she was talking about. It was a cultural style. I don't know if he knew it that well. He could have used it as a learning moment.

SPEAKER_01 43:03

I think, I think honestly, I wish we had gotten more of her as a choreographer because I feel like she had like the experience in the resume that someone like Darren had, but also had more of kind of the kindness and respect that Javante had. So I feel like she was a really perfect mix between the two, which is probably why which is probably why she was only in one episode, because she's not gonna cause she's not gonna cause drama and problems like the other two would.

SPEAKER_03 43:30

Oh, you know, especially with how boring the cast was, they needed to throw in these chaotic third parties to mix that up. Which well, I wouldn't be surprised if Alvester was like an agent of chaos, because they were like, Bolo said I'll do enough to be cocky, but Bolo's not gonna go in and be a bone carrier. He doesn't seem like that kind of person.

SPEAKER_01 43:45

So Wife and I feel like Bolo, because he already had a reputation and everything and a good one at that, he's not gonna come in here and destroy his own reputation for this shit.

SPEAKER_03 43:54

Yeah, also, truthfully, Bolo, like he he makes most of the performances, but Bolo's always like, Oh, I have a booking, I'm not here. I'm here. You know, he he he barely filmed the show.

SPEAKER_01 44:03

Yeah, no, he was in and out. And and you know, and I mean the thing is at the end of the day, out of all of these guys, Bola was the only one I was aware of going into this. I don't know who the I didn't know who the rest of these guys were.

SPEAKER_03 44:14

Alvester looked familiar, and then I realized that he's in um All the Queen's Men, the Eva Show on B E T Plus, where she has her male cancers. I think Bolo was in it as well, but obviously we knew him.

SPEAKER_01 44:26

Yeah, we we we know Bolo. We know Bola.

SPEAKER_03 44:29

But you know, we were not quite familiar with the urban male review circuit, so right, right.

SPEAKER_01 44:36

Um but yeah, I guess like what was what was your overall opinion like of the show as a whole from start to finish? I mean, I think we already both touched I mean I think it's pretty clear that we both enjoyed it.

SPEAKER_03 44:49

You know, I thought it was like better than I expected. I thought it was a fun like look into you know how the kind of business works, what they kind of look for while also being entertaining. So, you know, I think a good little one-season show because it didn't jump to shark, they don't need to try to keep anything going. A little boring at times, probably needed the right amount of producer intervention, but never kind of lost the plot, had a good structure. I would say not the best show in the world, but a solid six, seven, you know.

SPEAKER_01 45:17

Yeah, when I think honestly, in my opinion, I mean it potentially it had the potential. I think it could have had another season or two. I feel like honestly, especially with how strong the non-dancer cast is with like Vivica as the lead and with her staff and the choreographers and stuff like that. Like, I think they could have had a couple more seasons of the show with different dancers each season and like kind of rinse and repeat, and I think it would have been good.

SPEAKER_03 45:42

Yeah, maybe not different dancers, but like which guys stay on, who go on to go on to other things, especially because they've established a fan base and you know, probably going on about how they have to live in Vegas, moving their lives there, having multiple shows, managing new guys, old guys. I thought it was interesting. You know, one thing I will say though, like there was a lack of depth or development of like the men and kind of like learning more about the industry. Our team like so disjointed, so we would get like in the beginning, they would talk about themselves, like, oh my brother got me into this, or my dad was a dancer too, so I became one, and kind of that's how I know this industry. So we got some of that in episode one, and then like kind of never again. Are there very randomly we would get like a FaceTime of one of them talking with their kids? Or we got a good scene between Mike, Prophet the Problem, and his daughter, which I thought was very interesting. I wish it could like a little bit more of because it was a really interesting scene of like you know breaking down to your 14-year-old child that you're an exotic dancer, people might say stuff at school, it's gonna be on TV. It's also kind of like, you know, something that you have to speak about. So I thought that was really cool and interesting. I wish we got more along that round because I thought that was kind of one of the cool I don't know about if cool it's is the best word, but I thought that was one of the most interesting scenes in the show.

SPEAKER_01 46:55

Right. When we I think it was the storyline itself, I felt like aged and stayed rel it aged well and stayed relevant because I feel like today in a post-pandemic world where kind of like for online sex workers where that industry really exploded during the pandemic and it became much less taboo and more just normal, kind of. Um I feel like it's relevant because you have all these people that are doing things like OnlyFans and camming and whatnot. And not, I mean, these and people were doing that before, but there's I feel like it's a lot more now. Like, I mean, just some random bitch, you some random bitch in your friend circle might be doing OnlyFans, like just so many people are on it. Well, you never know. Um, and it's just so normalized now. And I feel like it's relevant in the sense that a lot of these people are gonna have kids or they already have kids, and like you gotta explain what you do to your kids, right? That's if you're gonna be on a TV show a lifetime, right?

SPEAKER_03 47:49

Because he was like, Have you known that was a dancer? She was like, Yeah, because you were talking about going to rehearsal, and I was like, he can't sing, so that's not why I was cracking my ass off. I was like, kids will always drag you, huh?

SPEAKER_01 48:00

Right. I I I I love uh I love a moment where a kid humbles their parents, right? And he was cackling too. Right, he he was loving, he was loving being shaded.

SPEAKER_04 48:10

Right.

SPEAKER_01 48:10

That's how you that's how you know they got a good relationship.

SPEAKER_03 48:13

Alright. And he was trying his best, even though she dragged him for missing them three basketball games.

SPEAKER_01 48:19

She wasn't having that queen. I know, and that was interesting of them talking about like, you know, like hey, I'm like missing a lot of things in my kids' life, but this is ultimately for this is ultimately to better their life. I'm trying to make money and do and do what I gotta do to support them. Um and yeah, it was really interesting. So I I do agree with you. I wish we got more of that throughout the season. I wish I wish it was at least a little bit more evenly sprinkled out and distributed because, like you said, like we would kind of get it and then it would disappear for episodes at a time, then it would come back.

SPEAKER_03 48:49

And it would come back. Profit, like the profit, the prophet, but he barely had storylines for y'all. So I was like, which one even is this? Talk to his daughter right now.

SPEAKER_01 48:57

Yeah, no, there were some guys that it was easier for me to like remember who they were and what they had going on than others.

SPEAKER_03 49:03

Oh, yeah, for sure. I was like, Profit, Prophet penetration. I was like, Y'all just kind of there. Obviously, white chocolate is white, so he stood out. I thought Charm was fine. He wasn't he had a very New York Bronx accent, so I knew who he was. You know, he was barely there. He was always in the back fumbling along.

SPEAKER_01 49:23

Yeah, I agree. And I I I mean, I think it's I think especially when you have ones like Bolo or Alvester that are a little bit more domineering and a little bit more attention grabbing, it I think it could be kind of hard to get the spotlight too.

SPEAKER_03 49:40

Right, yeah. Everyone everyone tried their best. Let's get into like the drama and controversy of it all before we wrap. Yeah. Probably why we did not get a season two. But if if you had to guess what um what media platform did the the it's all go down on. If you had to guess what interview platform, you know, show sparked the mess. Who's always at the scene of the crime?

SPEAKER_01 50:05

Oh my god. Well, so so it could be it could be a few. It could be a podcast appearance, it could be watch what happens live, it could be what else could it be?

SPEAKER_03 50:20

Well, I'm gonna start playing the music. Well, bitch you're out of time, but it was the Breakfast Club. Who I think is always a Breakfast Club.

SPEAKER_01 50:33

That's true. Charlamagne the God is always in some bullshit. He's always part of the bullshit.

SPEAKER_03 50:38

So yeah, during promotion for the show, Vivica, who was there with some of her dancers, said that they don't dance for gay men, they dance for women, Ultimate Girls 9. Oh, so critic, uh yeah, it's immediately sparked some discussion. Critics labeled the position as homophobic, and you know, started sparked boycott calls from the LGBT community. They heard ticket sales, heard the lawsuit, and it left into the divide between Vivica and the actual owner, Jean-Claude. So he was Jean-Claude Lamar, he was behind the movie Chocolate City, and was kind of like the real founder, and then they got Vivika as kind of like a spokesperson for the show, and maybe a backer. I don't know to what extent she was involved, and then Eureka was also in like in charge of it and involved, and still is involved. So Eureka still doesn't show. Yeah, I don't know, not so much, but as a result of this controversy, Jean-Claude was mad at him that distanced himself from her, and then as a result, Vivica got mad and started her own tour, a rival touring show, and tried to steal some of the dancers back because she didn't own the blackmagic name, even though they were using Vivica in it, so then they turned it to Black Magic Live, didn't use her name anymore, which is confusing because the TV show is Vivica's Black Magic, but then the show's Black Magic Live. So pretty much it was a legal war drama. He sued her. He said that she tried to she defamed him, tried to steal dancers, demeaned his brand. She told Danger that he didn't care about them and recruited them for the live the rival show Explicit Minds. So the show fell out. Vivicles barely evolved, a lot of controversy from saying it wasn't for gay men, which I think you were trying to position it as like, oh, they dance for women to kind of maybe ease their pain, but I don't know if tell them they care that much. I don't know. But also I I mean I'm not saying that gay I don't think gay men should not be allowed, but I do think this kind of approach, the review approach, is definitely for straight women. I mean the gays can go to a go-go bar and get it without the routine.

SPEAKER_01 52:32

Right. Well, I can and I can see what you mean about like kind of like the guys themselves being like because I think sometimes I think this is a thing for straight men that work in the sex work industry, is I think there is sometimes a level of weirdness or insecurity. Um I mean you see it with like the fucking these straight dudes that are like doing like OnlyFans or something. And the fact of the truth of the matter is straight women don't really go on OnlyFans and pay for porn. So it's like for a lot of sex work male sex workers, it's like, yeah, you you are doing it for the gays, whether you whether you like that or not. Um but I agree with you though that this kind of show is mostly going to attract a female audience, unlike you know, unlike how women won't pay for porn. They will pay to go watch a man's do the bachelor's show. Yeah. So I mean I can see where maybe Vivica didn't mean any harm, and I'm sure she probably didn't. It probably wasn't meant to be like a homophobic thing. I really don't see it as that.

SPEAKER_03 53:39

I have to go rewatch the video fully get like some context and vibes, but I think Vivica clearly knows like who her demo is and who likes her, but yeah, I think it was I mean, I think we saw on the show that she clearly puts her foot in the mouth and her mouth and says whatever.

SPEAKER_01 53:53

Right, yeah, no. I mean that's a I mean that's a thing, especially because I mean she's like someone who came to fame in like the 90s, so like she's she's used to a different culture of like what you can what you what you should say and what you shouldn't say.

SPEAKER_03 54:07

Right, because half of her glee on the show came from body shaming these men. Well they didn't really have an inch of body to shame, but she kept telling them to keep it tight and right. And I wasn't I didn't see much food and eating on the show, so right.

SPEAKER_01 54:19

Well, I mean that I I I will say I actually took notes about this. There was, I don't know the exact episode, but there was an episode where they were having a conversation in the kitchen, some of the dancers, the guys, and he was like making his breakfast while they were doing that. And every time they cut to heat, he was just adding some shit to this bowl. Because I saw him, he cracked, he cracked a dozen size carton of eggs into that bowl. He cracked all dozen eggs in there. He put in some like raw ass bacon, um, some spinach, and then I saw him with like a carton of liquid. Yeah, like with a carton of like liquid egg whites that he was dumping into there too. And I was like, I got I mean, I guess that makes sense, though. This is the kind of breakfast to get those exotic dancer muscles.

SPEAKER_03 55:00

I know you need high protein, they might be lifting heavy. All of them boys, well, not all of them, but a good amount looked like they could be accused of being on a cycle, you know. But maybe he was making it for the house, was you know, making it for a lot of people.

SPEAKER_01 55:12

Maybe, but that's the thing, is like just having just the physiques alone to have and maintain, like to obtain and maintain that kind of physique, the level of dedication, I admire it because I couldn't do it.

SPEAKER_03 55:24

Right? Oh no, their bodies are well scoped and they're always looking cut on camera. I was like, oh my lord.

SPEAKER_01 55:30

Right, because I I think was it Bolo or it was one of the guys where they were like, How many times do you work out a day? And he was like, Well, what time is it? And because I mean, because I mean that's the thing because some of these guys, I mean, like, uh as we know with the guys in a Marvel movie, you work out like two, three times a day. Right? I could not, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 55:46

I'm sure that's why we didn't get a lot with the guys. They was probably in the gym, eating probably chicken and rice. Well, I think that would have been a fun shot, like them walk working out, Vivica walking around, like, mm-hmm, y'all better be in here.

SPEAKER_01 56:00

That's like that's like Vivaco walking around grabbing grabbing back fat, being like, you need to take care of this. Um that she it definitely would have had to be an early 2000s show for that to fly. But uh that's true, yeah. But I mean, that's the thing, is if you look like that, that is like a full-time job in and of itself. You spend most of your day like eating and working out and prepping.

SPEAKER_03 56:23

Right. I'm sure all these guys were lifelong athletes, trainers along those lines. I don't know anything else, right? And I'm sure it's probably lit. The show probably had access to a nice little gym or something, paid their food budget. I'm sure they're allowed to.

SPEAKER_01 56:37

Well, no, I I don't know. Vivica wouldn't even pay the LA guys' rent. They were asking for that.

SPEAKER_02 56:41

We we don't get our rent paid, but I'd be pissed if someone else was getting a nice house.

SPEAKER_03 56:47

I I gotta go take the subway back to my apartment. Right. Well, I'm like, why the fuck are they gonna be? Maybe they get driven, but that's it.

SPEAKER_01 56:56

Why do they get the Airbnb, but we don't? That's what confused me too. Is I was like, why don't you just have all the guys in one house? That I didn't get that.

SPEAKER_03 57:04

Yeah, maybe it was like an intentional decision to like make sure the show was about the dancing, not like house drama, you know?

SPEAKER_01 57:11

Maybe, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 57:12

Because we barely even see them in that house for real. I can barely remember who was local, who wasn't at some point. I thought that was gonna be a bigger divide as well. They kind of try to set that up and then nothing comes of it.

SPEAKER_01 57:22

Well, I think one of the episodes was literally titled titled like locals versus out of towners or something like that. Right?

SPEAKER_03 57:27

Yeah, it was just one little argument with slow mo and bolo that was mostly put on, you know?

SPEAKER_01 57:32

Yeah, no, it definitely felt well set similar to like what I said earlier about how like when they introduced Bolo, they were like, Oh, he don't have to audition, he's just on the team. Like, it felt like they were setting it up for like there to be more drama involving him. Uh, it was a similar thing with the out-of-towners versus locals, where it sounds it felt like that was gonna be like a season-long feud or something, and it just never it didn't go anywhere.

SPEAKER_03 57:54

Yeah, but you know, some unresolved storylines you may want a little more with the men, but overall, I think it's a cute little show for Valentine's Day. If you single, want something to watch, some eye candy, right? Because you know, mix up some eye candy and some structure, and I think it's interesting, kind of learning about you know the review business, what it takes. The Vic offer some fun.

SPEAKER_01 58:17

That's true. Can you can you imagine sit? Can you imagine like lounging on the couch, watching the show with some good wine and uh and some chocolate?

SPEAKER_03 58:25

Right, maybe a fruit ball, maybe and maybe a rose, maybe a rose. Which would be a great segue for a rose box ship, but we don't have one. Well, let's pretend we do, and maybe they'll sponsor us for real. Go to adamandeve.com slash oar n. That's adamandeve.com slash o arn.

SPEAKER_01 58:42

That's that's nice. It it see if if if we were on camera right now, I'd be I'd be bobbing around, I'd be vibrating, but here we are.

SPEAKER_03 58:51

Oh, apparently it's just adameve.com, but Adam and Eve does read a wreck. I mean, we don't work for them people, so don't really go there, but yeah.

SPEAKER_01 58:58

That thing, yeah, no, no. You can if you want.

SPEAKER_03 59:00

You can if you want.

SPEAKER_01 59:01

What what when we have a link where we get a little commission, we'll let you know. And you better click that link. Even if you don't buy something, just click the link so we get something. Because I I know some of them you just get money for click for them clicking, even if they don't buy shit.

SPEAKER_03 59:11

Those be the cheap ones, but you know, typically you need a little conversion, but the click through rate shows that our audience is engaged, so keep clicking. But don't not so much I mean like we have click fraud. Maybe we do need some affiliate videos. Y'all be drinking coffee? What y'all like? I mean we can probably get like a now that's TV affiliate link.

SPEAKER_01 59:37

Oh my god. Please if you don't know what now that's TV is, please don't please don't go look it up. The li live in bliss, live in bliss. It's it's good, it's fabulous. Um but yeah, overall, it was a good show. I'm happy I'm happy we covered it. I'm really happy we covered it. I had a good time watching it. Yeah, especially it's it's like one of those things where there's like some stuff we cover on here that like I had no idea it existed until we decided to cover it. And like this is like one of those shows where I'm like, I'm glad I got to experience this because like I feel it's one of those things where it's like if we weren't doing the podcast, I would have never had any reason to try this out.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:11

Oh, for sure. And definitely I would say middle of the pack, maybe like top quarter. We at some point have to rank all of like the one season wonders and like one and kind of like not long-lasting shows we've covered. Of course, we know Catch and Kelsey or whatever that show was called is on the bottom, but yeah, nothing I know.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:29

We've definitely bridal Plasty's up at the top. Um that thing I know we've bridal Plasty is taking it. We've definitely we've covered some like some fabulous ones, and we've covered some real stinkers.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:40

So I think Oh, I I know you didn't like I know you didn't like Evelyn Lazata bullying bitches in Miami, but I did, I did.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:49

Oh yeah, no, I did not really enjoy that show. And that's what I love too about when we covered like these onesies and wonders. Like, I love kind of like when we come together to record and finding out, like, did we both like it? Did one of us like it? One of us hate it. Like it's kind of it's kind of fun, especially because I think it's more fun when we have very different opinions. Like this one we obviously both liked, but I think sometimes it's more fun when we have very different uh opinions of like how much we enjoy them. This is a quick watch for me. Well, I think, because it it's interesting to it. Sometimes I feel like when I really hate something that we cover and you really enjoy it, sometimes I feel like Roley getting off the bus angry as hell, and you're Natalie with your with your with your face dropping, like, oh sometimes, sometimes.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:38

I know in the in the Glee Christmas episodes we had some differing opinions.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:42

We did, but you know, I think that's what makes it fun. You know, I we we need to get back because we need to get back to talking about differences of opinions that aren't like uh isn't like on evil shit. Like I'm I'm sick of people talking about like the difference of opinion on if certain people deserve like human rights. I'm sick of that shit. Let's have difference of opinion on fucking glee Christmas holiday episodes.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:03

Right? Let's do that. Or you know, force your friends to watch a wrestling reality, Lisa. I know you're confused.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:13

Yeah, no, I I mean it's kind of funny what because like I like have just never I've always like I've literally never had even the remote like slightest bit of interest in wrestling my entire life. So it is it is like always really funny when like the WWE makes their like little crossover into into our ref because because you're such a fan, I'm such a non-fan.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:34

Yeah, I mean I've been saying it since we had the podcast. We need to get into Total Diva. It's just they have seven seasons, and that's a fucking while.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:40

See, that that's a that's a bigger problem.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:42

And I I like season one, but it's like no, I like season two and three better.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:46

You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_03 1:02:46

I'm not seeing season five to seven.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:48

A seven-season show, we're gonna cover that on the Patreon. They're gonna have to pay for me to watch that. But what you guys don't have to pay for, what is completely free, is to rate us five stars. You don't have to pay a dime for that. You also don't have to pay to check us out on our other platforms. We are at on a real note pod across all social media platforms. We are on TikTok, we're on Blue Sky, we're on Threads, we're on Instagram itself, we're on Twitter slash X, depending on if you're you know a fascist or just kidding. Um I know the fascists aren't listening. I know if you're listening to this podcast, you're not a fascist, you're a hot person, you're a communist, maybe. Um but yeah, go check us out on those platforms. I feel like we're a lot of fun. We have a good time. We entertain.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:35

We're we're we're like, I've been having fun on threads lately. I've been having fun do threads lately. We're like Bolo.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:41

That thing, we're like we're like Bolo. We're all around entertainers, I feel.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:45

Period. You don't have to flee the country after hooking up with us, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:03:49

Right, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:50

And we're not gonna do anything.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:57

Flee or get dragged out? I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:59

But uh next week, we'll be getting into the new America's next top model documentary reality check inside America's next top model.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:10

Oh, and you know I love Dragon Tyra Bang, so I'm excited. And Jay Man Wells Botox. Oh yeah, he needs to get he needs to get some too. He needs to get some.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:20

You know, I read his very terrible book. Well, I didn't finish it, but like I started it. I don't know what mania I was under when I approached that ebook, but I randomly like reopened it again. I was like, this is written so terribly. It's like a slightly fictitious version of like him as like the guest host on America's X Top Motto, but of course it's like called something else. But it's so like loosely it's like just enough chains to not suit, you know?

SPEAKER_01 1:04:44

Yeah, uh, that's that that's interesting. I feel like I I want to say uh you should you should do a Patreon exclusive, like full review of the book. I I want to hear that.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:53

Oh god, even some of the quotes are ridiculous, but we know maybe I'll do it on TikTok.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:58

Okay, okay, TikTok review. You're you're generous, you're the generous.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:01

I'd have to finish that book. I did get through like 50 or 60% of it somehow, but this was like years ago. But this is when I still sold Razors.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:09

Okay, razors, and I never got a free one. Um well, you could have gotten free cat food. I could I never got that. I see that's the thing. I I never get any free shit. I never get any free shit.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:19

I I offered the cat food several times. Don't lie. You're not gonna lie on the on the butt.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:24

Yeah, but I wanted it for free without having to actually film anything. So that that was that was me being ridiculous. That was me being ridiculous.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:34

Well, that wasn't gonna happen. I needed a voiceover, I needed good lighting and good angles. And I wasn't gonna give you any of that. But thank y'all. Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:44

I was they don't have to be privy to this. Nothing. But uh thank y'all. I hope we did give you everything this week and we'll see y'all next time. Nothing, yeah. What what watch us drag Jay and forehead.