The 90s Alt-Country Revolution: The Music That Changed Americana

Alternative rock may have dominated the headlines in the 1990s, but another musical revolution was quietly taking shape. Long before Americana became a Grammy category or artists like Jason Isbell and Tyler Childers became household names, a generation of musicians was blending country, folk, rock, punk, and roots music into something entirely new.

In this episode of Against The 90s, Dave and Marq explore the rise of Alt-Country and Americana—the artists who rejected Nashville conventions while embracing the storytelling traditions of classic American music. From influential pioneers to forgotten classics, they discuss the records that helped define one of the decade's most enduring musical movements.

Whether you discovered these records when they were new or you're hearing them for the first time, this episode celebrates a movement that proved some of the best music of the 1990s didn't come from Seattle—or Nashville.

What are your favorite alt-country or Americana albums from the '90s? Let us know in the comments!

Find us on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Thedarkstuff

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Hello and welcome to Against the 90s, the newest podcast from The Dark Stuff. This is a 90s music podcast hosted by two people who lived the decade, bought the records, watched the videos, went to the shows, and fell hard for the music. Each episode re-examines the music of the 90s by spotlighting the artists, albums, and movements that matter across alternative, rock, indie, rap, and beyond. This is not revisionist history from a distance, it's perspective from people who were there when it happened. Now looking back with context, experience, and zero nostalgia goggles. If you think the 90s deserve better than the story they've been given, well, you're already against the 90s. How's it going? I'm Dave here with my co-host Mark. Uh, how you been doing since the last time we convened for a session?

SPEAKER_00 0:48

Good. It's been uh traveling. I got a bunch more travel coming up, going to Minnesota right after this to see actually two of the artists that we'll be talking about today. So nice.

SPEAKER_01 1:00

Well, the topic today for this week's this month's show, I should say, is sort of Americana slash alt country of the nineties. Now that was uh it wasn't invented in the nineties, it didn't start in the nineties, whatever, but I think that that's where it really started to bloom or whatever, and have some major artists that had some serious traction um with it. Now, what are we talking about? How would you define Americana or or alt country to be?

SPEAKER_00 1:26

So I'm gonna kind of disagree with you, and that is that um I do believe it started in the 90s or the late 80s, and you know, obviously there's grand parsons, there's the birds, there's you know, stuff that was around before, but it really wasn't called that, you know. Right, you're right. I mean, those generations in the 70s and 60s, they like to try to own everything, they have to bring everything back to that era, and you know what? Some things were invented in the 80s and the 90s, and so I do believe that alt country or uh not necessarily Americana, but all country, no depression, that whole vibe was definitely invented in um in the 80s. Late 80s in the 90s, and you know, so we start with uh obviously Uncle Tupelo is considered the forebearer of that, though I would really consider the Jayhawks a little bit more of that. I mean, the Jayhawks came out in '85. Now they were more local, obviously, and then they put out uh I think Blue Earth, uh, maybe '89 or so. And uh, and honestly, it was Gary Lawrence from the Jayhawks who even though um Uncle Tupelo had you know was doing well, was very well regarded, you know, it was Gary Lawrence you know got sire records to get to sign them to a major label.

SPEAKER_01 2:51

Yeah, I mean the Jayhawks did have major label albums way before before Uncle Tupelo. Um they did now. What would you how would you say stuff like like cow punk fits in, like a Jason and the Scorchers or um even some replacements tunes like Ache and to be or whatever had that kind of country? Yeah, um I it they never really defined that sound, but I mean that was sort of an influence, I would say, definitely.

SPEAKER_00 3:16

Yeah, yeah, cow punk was and punk in general was definitely an influence. I mean, Uncle Tupelo was very, I mean, especially um not Jay Ferrar, uh Jeff Tweety was very uh influenced by the Minutemen. I mean, that was a you know, that was a big, big influence for him. In fact, I think they had a song called D Boom, you know.

SPEAKER_01 3:35

Yeah, well, and of course, the the the general theme no depression, which is another code word for sort of alt country, comes from the uh the Uncle Tupelo album, which is based on a I think a Carter family song or something like that, uh from way back in the day. They sort of redefined it or whatever, and it's it there was a no pression, no depression zine, which sort of chronicled the alt country scene. So I guess we we um we we sort of agree on when it started. I mean, I guess I I I threw in like Graham Parsons because every one of those bands, when you hear them talk about who they like, they always talk about Graham Parsons and the birds and stuff. So you sort of they get the honorary kind of mention. But I'm feeling you on that of like, you know, um they do try to put every what old uh every old thing.

SPEAKER_00 4:22

It's like they they have like oh like something comes, you know, something will come out in 2040, and these classic rockers like, well, that started, you know, and like just let it go.

SPEAKER_01 4:36

Okay, well then let's just start where we where it started. Okay, with Uncle Tupelo. Here's I put up a picture of the band, uh Jeff Tweety, Jay Ferrar, of course, legends in the scene. And they were from what about 86, 87 until 1994. I think they played their final show in early 94.

SPEAKER_00 4:55

Yeah, that sounds about right because yeah, right after they split up, um, they both put out kind of albums, you know. Sunbolt put out Trace, I think, in '94, and um Wilco put out an AM, I think, around the same time in in '94. So that sounds about right. Yeah, they did that final tour, even though they had uh they were at each other's throats by that time. I bet you that tour was very uh uncomfortable.

SPEAKER_01 5:23

So probably a ton of fun, right? Um for me, I mean, I I I knew who Uncle Tupelo was. I worked in a record store in the early 90s, but I sort of got into these guys, Jay and and and Jeff, more when they did split up, to be totally honest. I mean, that's when I more heard Wilco, and that's when I heard Sunvolt. Now, from what I remember of the of the era, the industry, Warner Brothers or whoever was had signed them, um, and that because I think they had hired it, yeah. Yeah, they had uh they had Uncle Tupelo, and then they sort of had the leaving member clause, and they ended up having Wilco and Sunvolt. And I think the industry was thinking it this was gonna be a Sunvolt thing, like they were gonna be the big band, um, or at least bigger of the two, right? And then it sort of didn't work out that way. I mean, I I he did really well, but I mean, I do think the longer lasting impact would probably have to say Wilco.

SPEAKER_00 6:20

There's no doubt about it. But um, you know, when Trace came out though, you know, it had Drown on it, which was big rock, you know, alt-rock hit or whatever, you know. And so yeah, I mean, it looked like Sunbolt was gonna be the the winner of the Uncle Tupelo battle. But I mean, Wilco, I mean, Sunbolt is, you know, the opening act on a f or mid-act on a festival, whereas Wilco is the headlining act, I mean Wilco has you know 10 CD box sets that come out that that that sell, you know. Yeah, uh, and you know, Sunvolt puts out albums that you know have you know their cult likes it, I guess. But yeah, I mean, but people still get excited about Wilco albums.

SPEAKER_01 7:17

Yeah. I mean, I I you know, I I clearly come down on the Wilco side, but I've never been I've never had a problem with Sunvolt. I like it, but I I think I would say Sunvolt sticks more to the alt-country Americana sound than Wilco does. I thought by being there, the second Wilco album, they were doing it sounded like the replacements to me. Like I I sort of I was starting to see Tweety as like a Paul Westerberg type. And I really don't see him that way anymore because he has mellowed quite a bit and it's different. But uh certainly the band in in the being there era reminded me a lot of the replacements.

SPEAKER_00 7:53

Right. Well, I mean, well, you know, Jeff Tweety was a punk person, you know, whereas Jay Ferrar was was not. So I mean it it only made sense that that Jeff Tweety would would go more in that direction or not necessarily punk, but you know, less Americana or alt-country or whatever. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:12

Yeah, because Wilco, I mean, I've seen him recently, as recently as the last couple of years. I probably haven't seen Sunbolt in a decade, I would imagine.

SPEAKER_00 8:20

No, and and and I don't know. I mean, I've seen Sunbolt and Jay a lot, and I mean I booked I booked Jay Ferrar. That was awkward. He's a he's an interesting guy, let me say. Um, yeah, I didn't really know Uncle Tupelo either. I mean, I was a hair metal kid, as you know, as you know, so in the early 80s, early nine or late 80s, early 90s, I mean, that was um that was my thing, and and you know, so I started getting into like REM and Indigo Girls, but my introduction to Alt Country was more the Jayhawks and then the Gear Daddies and Alejandro Escovito because um my elders in the record store, that's who they were into, and so that's you know what I got into. And then when Trace and AM came out, of course, I liked those records, and that's when I went back and figured out oh, they come from Uncle Tupelo.

SPEAKER_01 9:25

Well, let's talk about the Jayhawks because you mentioned them, I mentioned them, we sort of consider them the origin uh in a lot of ways of this type of music. And you know, the Jayhawks, the the Twin Cities music scene in the 80s was just so fascinating. And anyone who knows me knows that that is really my era. I mean, Soul Asylum, who's could do replacements, whatever, prints, of course, um, all sorts of stuff, babes in toyland. But the Jayhawks are completely unique in that scene, and it just shows how uh great that scene was in general in the Twin Cities. The Jayhawks just they wrote the most beautiful songs. I mean, do you think alt country comes from or the idea of it was because country music, the mainstream country by the 80s had gotten really like become super weak sauce, very poppy. Um, and these guys wanted to sort of restore uh uh country to what it had been when they grew up.

SPEAKER_00 10:21

I don't think it was necessarily a movement, you know. I don't think they went into this with purpose, you know, and I don't think it came from, you know, although I think a lot of it actually did come from Minneapolis for some reason, you know. I mean, because you had um the Jayhawks, the gear daddies, and you know, even some of the other bands, you know, had a little bit of that, maybe cow punk or whatever.

SPEAKER_01 10:42

Um had a couple of songs that could qualify, I suppose.

SPEAKER_00 10:46

Sure, and then when you get into Golden Smog, I mean, Golden Smog, which came later in the mid 90s, the super group, I mean, that's Soul Asylum, Wilco, and and the Jayhawks, basically. So, I mean, you know, they all had feet in there, you know, or their feet in the mix, so to speak. Jayhawks were were phenomenal. Hollywood Town Hall is one of the well, it's one of the best records I've ever, you know. That's actually who I'm gonna go see up in Minnesota after this podcast.

SPEAKER_01 11:12

Yeah, I also love that tomorrow, tomorrow the greengrass is also really, really excellent. Um you know, the band did change when Mark Olsen left in the mid-90s, and she pointed out he left because he went needed to take care of his wife, um Victoria, Victoria, um Sweet Relief thing or whatever. And he decided to take care of her full time, and so he left the band. And Gary took over as the lone songwriter, singer, guy, or whatever. And I think they were still good. I mean, I like that Sandvise album that came out, but yeah, it was more of a power pop thing, you know. Yeah, it changed though. Yeah, it changed, but um, whatever. When I still play those the maybe the first three Jayhawks records, um, you can't go wrong with that stuff. And I mean, if you know it the definitional stuff is of course Wilco, Uncle Tupelo, whatever, but I do I like your suggestion that really it started with the Jayhawks in there.

SPEAKER_00 12:07

And I'll put on Hollywood Town Hall way before I'll put on Trace or AM, that's for sure.

SPEAKER_01 12:12

You know, me too, probably. I I would say um uh now you're a big Gear Daddies fan. I am only familiar with Billy's live bait. That's the only record of theirs I know.

SPEAKER_00 12:26

And then so that's the other person I'm going up to see is Martin Zeller from the Gear Daddies is opening up for the Jayhawks, and it's actually gonna be up, you know, more towards Austin, Minnesota, so it's gonna be cool to see them in the middle of the state. Um the Gear Daddies, yeah. I mean, so they put out Let's Go Scare Al in I think 1988, and then that got reissued by Polly Polydore, I believe, uh in 1990, and then they put out Billy's Live Bait in 1990, and then that was it. Um, so the two albums, and they had a really great compilation that came out in '92, uh, called Can't Have Nothing Nice. So, I mean, really not a large catalog from that band. Um, but uh people in that genre love those two records. I'd never seen the Geardaddies ever. I've seen Martin Zeller to the singer a dozen times over the years. Um, and I just finally got to see the Geardaddies three weeks ago. So um in a small town in Iowa, 20 minutes outside of Omaha. It was really weird. And they played, you know, and they're you know, obviously they're getting up there in age, but they played their basically their entire catalog, because it's not that you know, 25 songs is is basically what you have, and they were fantastic. Um, Martin put out a lot of solo albums in the you know, over the next couple decades, including two on Ryko Disc, um, his self-titled one, and then or no, Born Under, uh Many Moods of and I think his solo stuff uh was is extreme criminally uh underlooked, but um, but yeah, the Gear Daddies um still resonate within that that scene. Of course, they had the Zamboni song, which ended up in the Mighty Ducks that oh yeah, uh probably for a couple of their houses. But again, my introduction to the you know, this music was the Gear Daddy, so I used to play the Gear Daddies a lot and Martin Zeller a lot when I was in the record store, but also Alejandro Escovito.

SPEAKER_01 14:25

You mentioned Alejandro Escovito. Now he's an artist that I I know by name, I'm not super familiar with his music.

SPEAKER_00 14:33

So Alejandro Escovito is part of the Escovito family, so his uh niece is Sheila E. Um, I think his brother's yeah, Pete Escovito is, you know, I think more known in the jazz. Well, I mean the Escovito family is a big uh musical family.

SPEAKER_01 14:49

So that's what that's what that's what the E in Sheila E stands for is Escovito.

SPEAKER_00 14:53

That is correct, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:54

I never knew that until today.

SPEAKER_00 14:57

Um, yeah, I mean, why would you? I mean, but yeah, so um Alejandro was it started in the 70s, he was part of a punk band called The Nuns, and then um, you know, a more roots-based band called the True Believers, which had JD Graham in it and and others. Uh, I believe his brother was in it too. I actually saw their final show. So the true believers got back together and played one final show at Austin City Limits Festival, and I went and saw the Kieran DePesh mode down there, and then I ended up seeing that show. So I I got to see the last show from them. Anyway, uh, so in 1992, Gravity comes out, which is his debut solo album, and he's already, you know, well into his career, so this is a whole new start. He puts up this phenomenal all-country singer songwriter, Americana record that's just full of love and loss, and just so genuine. And I, you know, honestly, I think that may be the best 90s album of that genre is Gravity by Alejandro Escovito. Oh wow. It is, but I feel good about it. Um he followed that up with um, I think 13 days. I don't know. I'm trying to, and then uh had a Racco Disc album in '95, which was all right, and then did Bourbonitis Blues towards the end of the decade. So he had a really strong decade. In fact, no No Depression uh called him the artist of the decade in the 90s, actually. So um, so yeah, I think Alejandro Escobito definitely is in the conversation on um, not necessarily as far as commercial success, but as far as quality music uh in that genre in the 90s.

SPEAKER_01 16:45

Yeah, no, uh only familiar with his name. I just learned that he was Sheila E's sister or cousin or whatever.

SPEAKER_00 16:52

Um she's his niece, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:53

His niece, okay. So, bottom line is that that right there, that's a cool connection. I like it. Um, but I I really need to listen to this gravity record because if it's that good, I if it beats the Jayhawks, then I'm like, oh, I need to hear what this guy's up to.

SPEAKER_00 17:07

Yeah, and maybe I just connect with it in a different way, but I've loved it since it came out, and I just listened to it while we're preparing for this, and um, yeah, I mean, I think it holds up. So we actually we actually booked him. I I've seen him a few times, but I actually booked him uh with my friend Eric. We booked him at Knickerbocker's back in the 2000s and sold out that show. That was one of one of the highlights of my very short career in booking music.

SPEAKER_01 17:31

So go into this band, the old 97s, who I'm gonna be candid, I didn't hear till the 2000s, so I didn't think of them as much of a 90s band. No, because for me, most of their output that I'm familiar with was from the 2000s, which I think is when they more caught on a little bit. Yeah, but they did start in the year maybe '93, '94. So they they technically qualify. Um, I like this band. I've always seen them as, yeah, when they first started, I think they were more on that alt country. I think they're doing more rock and roll at this point. I mean, they they did that pretty messed up album, or what I think is what it was called a couple of years ago. And again, that was kind of replacements-y sort of rock and roll. And Rhett Miller, when he does solo stuff, that sounds more country these days.

SPEAKER_00 18:23

Sure. I mean, they put out Wreck Your Life in 1995 on Bloodshot, and we could do a whole episode, maybe we should someday on Bloodshot Records, but you can't mention, you know, you can't do uh this topic without mentioning Bloodshot.

SPEAKER_02 18:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:37

Um, so but that, you know, definitely more of an uh alt-country vibe, and then when you know fight songs came out, and that was more that was more of a you know rock mainstream kind of alt-rock kind of thing. But yeah, I mean, I think the early stuff definitely puts them in that 90s conversation.

SPEAKER_01 18:56

Yeah, and it's a great band, and I mean I've seen Rhett Solo as recently as a couple years ago when he played it, I think he played at Reverb or something in town, and and uh really, really good. I always liked their record. I just for some reason I'd never connected to them in the 90s. Um and they were on Electra, which is my vote for best major label of the 90s, just based on the quality of artists they had, not management style, because they were pretty shitty. They dropped a lot of great bands, but anyways, that's the old 97s. I think they're they're due for ripe for a mention.

SPEAKER_00 19:28

Um then I think the reason why I put them there is I did see them at the ranch pool a couple times in the 90s. They would come through town, and I I believe one of those times. So I saw Whiskey Town twice at the ranch pool, and uh one was a total shit show because it was Ryan Adams' birthday and he was trash, and then one was really good, and one I think was with Sunbolt and one was with Old 97s, so that's why I kind of keep them in that vein, I guess.

SPEAKER_01 20:01

There's a picture of Whiskey Town, uh, the aforementioned Whiskey Town, featuring Ryan Adams. And at some point, did you when you saw them live, was Ed from Ohio from Firehose playing guitar with them?

SPEAKER_00 20:14

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 20:15

Okay, because that's to me, that was always like, oh man, I really need to see Whiskey Town, not because I was that familiar with Whiskey Town, but because I wanted to see Ed from Ohio because nobody had seen him since he, you know, since Firehose broke up. Right. I always thought that was kind of a cool addition. But now we know Whiskey Town as the band where Ryan Adams started his career. And I'm mostly familiar with this album, Strangers Almanac, that I put up on the screen. It was their, I think their major label debut or something like that. Yeah. Probably their best known. Um, I don't know. What are your thoughts on Whiskey Town? I mean, are you a Ryan Adams guy? I sort of was, but I I got kind of turned off by him, admittedly, with the Me Too stuff that happened, but I can't completely hate the stuff I liked. It's just like it's hard for me to get really excited about him nowadays.

SPEAKER_00 21:04

So I was a massive Whiskey Town fan, and then Ryan Adams Heartbreaker was like the be-all end-all for me when that came out, you know. Uh, we went to Minnesota on to for the Heartbreaker tour and saw him at 7th Avenue. And by we, I mean all the managers at Homer's. So I mean, Heartbreaker was like, you know, that was it. And then um it was weird at the show because you know, we're at the show, and you know, Ryan wasn't even a huge star, even though Whiskey Town, you know, was doing all right. But I mean, so we're at 7th entry, so it's not even a packed, you know, main room show. And sitting at the bar is Lucinda Williams just hanging out, drinking, and you know, and and it was just Yeah, it was a it was a weird, like you know, all the Minneapolis people were there, so everybody was there to see the Wonder Kid, you know, Ryan Adams. It was like you felt like you're in a in the cool space, you know. Um But Whiskey Town, I think Stranger's Almanac and then Pneumonia came out, I think, in 2002. They just reissued pneumonia last week on vinyl and get a deluxe version of that too. But Strangers Almanac is good of I mean 10 out of 10 record, five stars across the board. I mean, no skips. I mean, it's I mean, it is one of the best albums ever, and one of definitely one of the best alt country albums.

SPEAKER_01 22:25

Yeah, it's impossible to talk about this decade and this sound and just sort of ignore Whiskey Town. I mean, maybe I I think they have uh the lasting impact of some of these others. I mean, maybe because Ryan Adams went solo and he's had a little bit more success as a solo artist, people aren't as familiar with Whiskey Town. But yeah, like you say, Stranger's Almanac is a 10 out of 10. It's a it's a really, really good record. Not too familiar with the the other Whiskey Town records, but I'm pretty familiar with most of the uh the uh Ryan Adams solo stuff.

SPEAKER_00 22:55

You know, the first album was was it was what it was. I and I feel like a little bit of that got recycled on the Stranger's Almanac, or at least on the deluxe version of Stranger's Almanac that I have. And then um, you know, pneumonia is a great album, it's a little more poppy, but it's it's a fantastic record. Caitlin Carey was the other kind of mate. Oh, there it was. Caitlin and Skillet, Skillet on Drums, and Caitlin and Skillet are actually married now, but um Caitlin put out some solo albums in the you know that were very good as well, and then uh they formed uh Trade Chicka's with somebody from Hazeldeen, which is another weird band from that era, but yeah, so I mean uh yeah, there was there's always talk about a reunion. I don't know if there's that much of a possibility after Ryan's recent issues, but you know, who knows?

SPEAKER_01 23:44

Yeah, it's hard to say. I mean, if they're there was money involved, then you know, some of the other guys could get a good payday. Maybe they would sort of overlook how he's sort of a jerk, but you know, it is what it is. Um, I mean, there certainly were more egregious people, uh, their behavior than Ryan Adams, but at the same time, I'm not here to defend anybody who's been called out like that. I'm not, you know, that's not my that's not my bag. I'm not doing that. People that don't know the story of Lucinda Williams, I mean, her career goes back into the 80s.

SPEAKER_00 24:17

Into the 70s.

SPEAKER_01 24:18

Oh, into the 70s, even, yeah. And she was kind of an obscure artist, you know, most of the people like liked her songs, and other people covered her songs, and she, I believe, won like a Grammy before she was even well known as a uh as a performer.

SPEAKER_00 24:34

So she wrote the song Passionate Kisses, which Mary Chapin Carpenter covered, and then that won a Grammy in '92.

SPEAKER_01 24:42

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 24:42

And so then that set up a situation where okay, now the industry is who's Lysinda Williams, you know, or you know, you know, Lucinda's the hot shit right now, and then so she has to deliver. I mean, I don't know if that's how she felt, but yeah, but so she has to deliver and she puts out car wheels on a gravel road, and there's I mean, if you're gonna deliver, that's yeah, oh you deliver, you know.

SPEAKER_01 25:11

She delivered on that record, right?

SPEAKER_00 25:12

So I again another, you know, no skips album, 10 out of 10. I mean, just an absolute classic, and then that went on to win uh more Grammys and things, of course, and then she became uh you know the darling of the scene, really.

SPEAKER_01 25:27

Yeah, yeah, she's really great. Her story is just so interesting. How you know she was just she she had hits for other people, you know. Her she had had songs that had done really well, and it was finally just through perseverance, she finally got up there, and now she's the she's the artist.

SPEAKER_00 25:43

Um and her early stuff is pretty traditional, country, and and it's you know, it is what it is, but yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:50

Yeah, I mean, and then um what's that song? Tom Petty covers one of her songs, um Broke the locks or whatever. Uh my friend, I can't remember what it's called, but but um that was really cool. Just Tom Petty covering her song. I love that version that he did. I like the original too, of course, but I mean I do think the Lucinda Witt or the Tom Petty version was pretty excellent. Yeah, I mean, so yeah, Car Wheels.

SPEAKER_00 26:14

You know, you have that title track, you have Drunken Angel on there, um Joy, of course. I'm God, there's so many great songs on that record.

SPEAKER_01 26:22

Yeah, it's it's pretty excellent. It's uh that's kind of a must-own. Okay, well, let's let's move into uh Gillian Gillian Welch. I don't know how you I always mispronounce it. Is it Gillian or Gillian?

SPEAKER_00 26:38

It's I don't know. I think it's Gillian, but we'll you know, whatever. Somebody will correct us.

SPEAKER_01 26:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:44

Um, well, I mean, I just want to mention both Gillian uh Welch and Nico case because I feel that they are, you know, they're more 2000s and beyond artists, but they started in the late 90s, and I think this is kind of where um they you know people came in and took it, you know, to the next decade. You know, Gillian put out, I mean, she's more known for her 2000s album Time the Revelator. Um, but you know, she did put out Revival in 1996, which is a classic as well. Yeah, yeah, Anthony Bell on it, and it was nominated for a Grammy. So, but you know, obviously she her and David went on and did you know bigger things and are still you know going to this day. Um, but yeah, so she started in you know the mid-90s, and also Nico put out um The Virginian in 1997, and of course, more people know you know would come to find her in the decades after, but that is a classic um alt-country album as well, Nico Case and her boyfriends the Virginian.

SPEAKER_01 27:47

Yeah, because if you've I mean if you've heard Nico Case, and probably everyone watching has heard Nico Case, um she definitely was more definitively country on her first two records with uh Nico Case and her boyfriends, and she did change it. She's still in that vein, and I mean she's been such an inspiration for people. If you talk about what's going on nowadays with like Wax a Hatchie or Hooray for the Riffraff or whatever, I mean, you can tell there was definitely an influence on these late from these late 90s artists, maybe like a Nico Case, like a Gillian Welcher, Jillian Welcher. I'm gonna keep pronouncing it both ways. That way, one way I'm right, you know.

SPEAKER_02 28:25

Right, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:26

But no, I I heard Nico Case for the first time on the first new pornography's record and loved it. And by that point, she had already had the two, I think these two albums, the boyfriends albums, had come out, but her first solo, completely solo album, was yet to come, I believe. Right. I think it was coming out shortly after that. But I've been a big Nico Case fan ever since then. I love the Case Lang Veers thing that she did.

SPEAKER_00 28:52

I thought it was Steve Earl to me was, you know, growing up a Z92 rocker, you know. So he had Copperhead Road and uh Guitar Town, you know. So to me, he was no different than maybe a Ted Nugent or a ZZ Top, you know. Oh wow. Um just a Z92 rocker, and uh, although I like you know, I love Copperhead Road and Guitar Town, and I do not like anything like ZZ Top or Ted Nugent. Um so then the 90s comes along and he puts out an album called uh Train of Coming, and then I feel all right, and it's like, oh, you know, he's a actual doing actual songwriter stuff, uh Folky, you know, country, and it was like, okay, this is interesting. And then he puts out this album called El Corazon, uh, with Emmy Lou Harris and Dela Curry and the super suckers, and it's like that was his uh kind of coming out. It's like here I am, I'm gonna be uh, you know, your figurehead of alt country for the next you know couple decades, and he has been. He just puts out you know interesting album after interesting album, and he you know does it his own way. I mean, he don't care. Yeah, so I mean he kind of embodies that whole spirit. It's pretty cool.

SPEAKER_01 30:17

Is he from New Orleans?

SPEAKER_00 30:19

I don't know where he's from.

SPEAKER_01 30:20

Oh, okay. I feel like he was on some show, a TV show, and he played playing himself, and it was like based in New Orleans, and he was supposed to be like this New Orleans guy or whatever.

SPEAKER_00 30:31

But I mean I spent a lot of time in New Orleans, and I've never had that come up. They're alright. They're a little bit too bar band for me, though I did own 24 hours a day. Um, and then the one after that. God. Oh no, the Brooklyn side was first, and then 24 Hours a day after that. I like 24 Hours a day better. That was on a major label, had better production on it. You know, I'm a pop kid. That's what I like. I like that production.

SPEAKER_01 31:05

Well, this album, this album looks so familiar from I guess record store days or whatever. The 13th.

SPEAKER_00 31:11

Yeah, I mean, if you worked in a record store, it was in your used bins because I think people bought it and then I don't think they really accept it, to be honest with you. The band really didn't do anything huge. Here's the thing what I think about the Bottle Rockets are that they are, you know what Chopperone says, I'm your favorite artist's favorite artist. I think the Bottle Rockets are all country bands' favorite all country band, you know. Um, there's just something cool and and gritty about them because they never really made it and made it, so it's like, oh, I can say I like the bottle rockets, and I'm sure they were a killer bar band, a live band. I don't think I ever saw them. The singer was Brian Henneman, and so he was also involved in the Uncle Tupelo world. He was a guitar tech, played on some of their stuff, and so you know, he's been, you know, also in the scene from kind of the get-go. He retired from music, I don't know, maybe seven, eight years ago, and just hasn't done anything since. He's like, I'm done with it, I want to hang out with my dog, whatever. So, yeah, they they kept going for a while or got back together and tried to do it some more, but yeah. But you know, great. If you like bar rock old country music that's just raw and gritty, that's that's where you go.

SPEAKER_01 32:20

Yeah, then I think I would I think I would like it.

SPEAKER_00 32:27

I think James McMurtry is the the greatest living songwriter, and um he's his albums, in fact, his last two albums I think are his two best albums, and then in the 2000s he put out a ton of great albums that are more known as his canon, so to speak. But he put out five albums in the 90s, started out in '89, um, put out you know albums like Candyland and uh Too Long in the Wasteland and things like that, where'd you hide the body, uh, which had the amazing song Level Land. But I think so. His canon is more later, but his 90s stuff is very all-country and I think maybe a little bit uh overlooked and and and should be revisited as well. Um, but yeah, I mean, I I one of the greatest songwriters that uh has existed at the same time as we have.

SPEAKER_01 33:19

So yeah, and he's performed here recently, hasn't he?

SPEAKER_00 33:22

Yeah, I did an interview, I did an interview with him before that last uh show at the waiting room. He plays here once a year, once every two years. I mean, he's always on tour. I mean, you know, and his father is Larry McMurtry, who wrote uh the Lonesome Dove books and all that. So he's kind of a Neppo, kind of a Neppo baby.

SPEAKER_01 33:44

Your dad wrote those books back in the day. So now you're you know, that probably just barely scratches the surface in terms of you know that there are so many, and if you go really, really deep, there's probably a lot of other bands that were not even. Um, so you know, uh this was just a nice uh beginning to this discussion of this sort of music. I think we uh could definitely do like a label dive on bloodshot or something, or do yeah into the um into this kind of uh music because there's definitely artists that we missed out on. Why don't you uh in the comments if you've got any leave your favorite artists, if we left out anybody or the best 90s alt country record that you've heard of? And do you like Americana or alt country as a term? I think Americana has an older connotation, alt country has a newer one, and I think it got ruined when when it became the alt-right, when it was like a bit it's signed to a political thing, and nobody wanted to be alt anything after that. You know, so then it was then it was became like no, I'd rather be uh I'd rather call myself Americana. And I never heard of any artists call themselves alt country. I think that was no media thing.

SPEAKER_00 35:06

They hate it, and a lot of artists right now are trying to like get away from the Americana tag, they don't want to be called that either. So really, um, yeah, no, I I see it a lot in interviews. They're like, we don't want to be called Americana because I think there's a connotation to it as well, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:20

Probably, probably. Well, let's wrap up this episode here. I want to point out a couple of things. Number one, we have our new Instagram. It is uh you can look up against the 90s, follow us on there. We're gonna we're working slowly on on the social medias, but um, we are now on Instagram, and on our next episode, which by the way, we we put out a new episode on the 20th of every month, we'll be doing a deep dive. We're gonna start a new series, basically, a deep catalog series where we're gonna take artists with lengthy catalogs, but we're only gonna talk about their output in the 90s, and so we're gonna premiere it with Elvis Costello, who had a pretty fantastic 90s. I mean, best known probably in his career for the late 70s or maybe early 80s, but he had a fantastic 90s. So we will be discussing Elvis Costello in the 90s on our next episode. So um make sure you're subscribed to us on the dark stuff on YouTube. Look for the episodes audio on um, you know, your Spotify podcasts, Apple Podcasts, everywhere you get your podcasts, you can find Against the 90s. And we hope that you'll leave reviews and do all of that stuff and leave a like on the video. It definitely helps.

SPEAKER_00 36:31

Tell us how to say Gillian Welch.

SPEAKER_01 36:32

Yeah, and in the comments, how what is the correct pronunciation for is it Gillian or Gillian Welch? Please put that in the comments until next month, folks. Thanks a lot for watching. This has been Against the 90s. Adios.