Leanne's Podcast
Honest conversations about motherhood. The beautiful. The Brutal. The Burnout.
Maternal mental health matters.
Leanne's Podcast
The one where we became parents
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Part 2 of our story takes you into life after birth, the moments that weren’t captured in photos.
We talk about the reality of those early days with Olivia, the emotional disconnect, the anxiety, and the impact postnatal depression had on our lives.
This episode is a raw and honest look at what motherhood looked like behind closed doors, and how I found my way through it.
Hello, I'm your host Leanne, and welcome to Motherhood Honestly, where we get real about pregnancy, birth and motherhood. The highs, the lows, and everything in between. Honest stories, messy moments, and sharing our journey together.
SPEAKER_02Hello and welcome back to part two.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I'm back again. Hi.
SPEAKER_02I'm joined by my lovely husband Tottie. How are you?
SPEAKER_00Living the dream.
SPEAKER_02It's just like your worst nightmare, isn't it? I know it is. Huh? This is your worst nightmare. Ah, it's alright. Any form of public speaking. At least you only have to look at me, you'd have to look at like thousands of people.
SPEAKER_00Well, yeah. Although not a big speech, haven't we?
SPEAKER_02No, not a big speaker. Um it's been a a crazy couple of weeks, hasn't it?
SPEAKER_00We it has been to be fair.
SPEAKER_02It has been. So we launched our first episode two weeks ago, and the response has been incredible, to be honest. It's just been amazing.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it was to be fair. All the messages you got as well.
SPEAKER_02So many messages from so many lovely women, and and you know, just feeling like such a great for support, you know. And I've had so many women reach out who want to also share those their story with us, which I think that's like my goal. I just want to, you know, build a community and actually just you know.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I don't know.
SPEAKER_02Like, I just I want everyone to know that they're not alone. So the response to the first episode's been incredible, and we're now back for part two. But I will say, in the last two weeks, it's been a bit mental. I'm sure you could probably all hear in my voice. I'm full of cold at the moment, and I'm a bit rapey. Yeah. Um, Liv's not been great, she's had a few snuffles. My mum, my poor mum has broken her shoulder. So we've all just been rallying around after each other for the last two weeks, haven't we?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's been close a couple of weeks, yeah.
SPEAKER_02And I feel like it's the first time we've actually been able to sit down and actually record, right? Yeah, because it's just been mental. Oh no, literature, back and forth, back and forth. Um, so I guess part two is kind of the story when when Olivia was born, and we're gonna kind of talk through everything that happened really, um, up until now, I guess.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, in a nutshell.
SPEAKER_02In a nutshell, and I just want to start off by saying, you know, it was it's been a it was a very difficult time. Are you yawning?
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Oh my god, come on now. Alright. You tired, you have a late night. Not that late. I'm not that boring. Um, yeah, so we're gonna talk about um, I guess, just uh my journey with my postnatal depression and kind of everything that went in between from the birth till now. Yeah, and we've also had some so so many questions from people, which is great. So I'm gonna try and answer as best as I can. Um, but I think we'll probably do it at the end and then because I probably will cover some of the questions in the story. Yeah. Um, but one of the questions actually that was asked, and um, we didn't speak about it in part one because I I didn't know if I was okay to share it, but I've had kind of the okay to talk about it now. But one of the questions was um, did we always have the name Olivia? Um, and I guess the short answer uh short answer was yes, is yes, we did. Um so sadly, at the start of 2023, we lost my younger cousin Olivia. Um and it just it was unimaginable, and she was an incredible, incredible woman. And for anyone who who knew her, she was an absolute full of life, laughter. She's she was hilarious, she was crazy, chatty, gobby. She was just she was me, but ten years younger. And um when we found out we were having a little girl, um we kindly asked my auntie Pam and Uncle Steve if we we could name her Olivia. So yeah, she always had that name.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, our dad was the first name.
SPEAKER_02That was the first name, and I truly do believe she was sent she was sent to us. So, and you know, we talk about her all the time, and and some of the mannerisms that you know our little live has, it's just like her. She you know, I'll call Liv Big Live and Little Liv, but Big Liv was very headstrong, just like our Liv. Yeah, and you know, she she's just full of laughter and light, and and I think it's such a bittersweet thing, but you know, she'll always live on through our little live, and definitely she's yeah, and so I thought I just wanted to kind of share that with everybody. That's that's the reason for her name. But I suppose in lighter news we we did have another name, but you you were completely against it, and 100% that name was Nelly, yeah.
SPEAKER_00So that name was Nelly, yeah, and I said no, yeah, only because you called your first car Nelly. My first car was Nelly the Nissan, and uh I said to you, like under no circumstances she's gonna have that name.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, fair enough. I mean I loved it, and actually, one of our friends' um sister-in-law has named her baby Nelly, and I'm actually really jealous. But to be fair though, when Liv came out, she was a Liv, like just genuinely she was. Yeah, she was also my mum was like Nellie Martin, that's a horrendous name, and I was like, Oh, alright then don't piss off Elaine. Yeah, last thing you want to do. Um so yeah, um, but I thought we'd just share like a little story behind her name. So she's our our little Lives. Um so I guess we're gonna go back now to her birth. So we got her up to the part where she was born. Um and when they you know sort of took took her out, took her out the sunroof. Um, you know, I think we sort of touched on it last time that it was a very quick birth and we didn't really have time to process much of it.
SPEAKER_00Definitely didn't have time, like it wasn't like a quick heads or no nothing like what's gonna be how the whole process is gonna go down, like no one gave us any debrief on it.
SPEAKER_02Right. So I guess she was born and obviously they did tell us that they would be able to put her on my chest straight away, um, because she had to have some checks and you know she passed all those checks and they they put her on my chest, and I know and it's something I didn't admit for a long time, but I just didn't feel anything like there was no rush of love that everybody told me about, no overwhelming emotion. I was just I was just no and I remember actually thinking to myself, like, is this it? Like, do you know what I mean? Like, is this it? Where's where's this whole you know, emotional crying rush of love that everyone talks about? Like, I didn't have any of it, but I could see you, you were like crying, you know, you were so and you're not really that emotional, but that no, so like I felt so far away from you at that moment because I was like, oh my god, like why am I not feeling the same emotion that you are?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think it's like we didn't know is that because of the adrenaline, is that because you and none was anything, and like just tired at the same time, just yeah, it wasn't sure.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Um, and we were wheeled out to like the recovery or whatever. We kind of had a few hours of just us, didn't we? And I still didn't really feel anything to be honest.
SPEAKER_00I just yeah, but in a way, like you still like you still had that rush through your body. Also, you were absolutely exhausted, normal morphine, like yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02It was it was hard, and I think like you you did like a lot like she you did her first feed and you held her like when they did like her like heel break tests and stuff. Like I just laid there, like I think I was in such a daze that I just didn't really like comprehend what had just happened.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, like obviously like you know what Morphin does to you, like and also like Yeah, like it's just like I think you just been completely drained, exhausted as well.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, there was like nothing left like to give. Like I'd literally like feel like I'd done like 10 rounds with Mike Tyson. Um and then you had to leave, I remember in the evening, and I found that really difficult. But I think when you left, the midwife came over to me and they said to me, Oh, you know, do you want us to take her from you? And I thought to myself, like, is this a test? Like, are they are they gonna judge me if I say yes? So I said no. But I mean, we're really lucky, like Liv just slept the whole night, like she all these babies were crying on the ward, and she was having none of it, she was flat out. To be fair, she's a good sleeper, she's a good sleeper, even now, yeah. Um and the next day you came very early in the morning with my mum, didn't you? And again, like I didn't know what really not to feel. Like, I wanted to go for a walk, didn't I, just to get away and get some fresh air? And the midwife and the consultant had said, like, you know, you can't go home yet, and that just broke me. I just wanted to get out of there, like I felt like I was in a prison.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, like literally just before Christmas as well.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, like last thing you wanted to do is just I don't even think it was a Christmas, I think just the impact of what had happened. Like, I just wanted to get home. Um, and that night when you left, so this is now what the 23rd of December. I I remember I was sat, I was sobbing my eyes out to the midwife. I said, I can't do this on my own, I can't cope, I can't I couldn't even like lift myself out of bed to get her to her. Like if she cried, like I'd ring the bell for like the nurses, the midwife's coming help me, but no one would come because it was just so like the NHS is so stretched, like it was horrible. And in the end, the midwife about midnight said, You know, do you want your husband to come back? And I was like, Yeah, I said, I'm losing my mind, I just needed you there because I felt the most alone I'd ever done ever had. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, um, but it was quite funny though. The night before you had when you left the night before, you stopped at the nurse's station. And do you know what Auntie Pam? Yeah, I know you're listening, shout out to you. Auntie Pam reminded me of this story that you went up to the nurses' station when you left, and you the nurses said to you, is there anything that we can do for Leanne? And you said she just needs about eight hours sleep, dead serious. Well, and the midwives were like, Um, yeah, but what's all wrong? No, but like I've just had a like baby, I'm never gonna get an eight hour sleep in like for years. Like, I couldn't tell you the last time I had an eight hour sleep. Oh at all. But the fact you were just so like so serious about it as well. Like the midwife came in the next morning and she was like, Your husband is so nice, but Leanne, that was just she said, We were all laughing our head off when he left. I said, That's just you all over that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Um, but we managed to get home on Christmas Eve, didn't we? Which was just nice to get home in our own space, really.
SPEAKER_00And like Yeah, it's different when you're in your own space.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and I think actually that evening I felt okay, like I was like, Oh, it's so lovely at home, and the Christmas lights were off, and it was all magical, and I was like, Oh, I'm in my own bed.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Um but then as sort of like the next few days progressed, it I was very disconnected, and you basically did everything for Liv, didn't you? You changed her, you burped her, you fed her, like everything you basically did.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, well, if you think about it, like you you couldn't move much because of the pain you were in.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I mean that was obviously a huge part of it, but I also think mentally I was so like disconnected from her, like I just didn't it sounds awful. Like I when I I I have to be open and honest and tell people how I felt at the time, but I didn't want to be around her, and I I would only hold her if I was having a photo or if somebody was coming around to make it look like I felt like I was like um pretending to be a mum, but not actually being a mum. Does that make any sense?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it does, yeah. But also like we the beginning we didn't know a lot of what's going on because we thought like, oh yeah, you're just in such a pain that you just can't do much, and then if you do something, like it just gives you too much agony.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and I remember I that I was on the blood thinning it blood thinning injections as well, which every night I used to have to gear myself up for because if anybody's have to have them, they're horrible, they're so painful, and I'm a woof when it comes to needles, as we all know.
SPEAKER_00I mean I did not tell you that all I'll do for you.
SPEAKER_02I know you did, but I yeah, I just I know no, I I was brave, I did it, but it like even that every night having to gear yourself up to do that was just horrendous. And you get like the you know, like the sundown scaries, like when the sun would start to go down, and you think, oh my god, I'm in for the longest night of my life, like that feeling was awful, yeah, wasn't it? Like, and I've spoken to loads of women like about this, but like you know, my mum friends and things like that. Like, it's a real thing, sundown scaries are a real thing. Like, you get to that point in the evening and you think, Oh my god, I'm gonna be up all night, like and no, you can't prepare yourself for it. Do you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, because I was never in all it's different, yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_02So the midwife um like were coming out every few days, weren't they? That was it. They only let me go home, like um, they only let me leave the hospital under like the what's the word called? As long as the midwife would come on Christmas Day, which she did. And that Christmas Day I actually got up, showered, put makeup on. I felt like a million dollars. I didn't pretend to be. Yeah, my midwife was like, uh what are you doing? Um yeah, and she was like, Can I have a look at your scar? And I was like, Yeah, and when she had a look, it was quite red, wasn't it? But yeah, it was starting to get rid of it red so more red than it should have been, yeah. Um, and again, for anybody who knows me, if I've ever had any form of surgery, um I get infected, it the wound gets infected. We you heard about the bloody ear operation slash motorbike arrival day. So I'm just incredibly unluckily, unlucky, but I didn't want to show her at first, and I was like, Yeah, it's all fine, and you were like Leanne, and I was like, Oh, okay. Anyway, so she gave me a um, I think I had to go to the GP and have some antibiotics, didn't I? Yeah. So um got some of them, and it got to kind of like New Year's Eve, and the midwife again came round and she said, Can I have a look? And now this day is on New Year's Eve, she came around, the curtains were still shut. She came around about 11. The curtains were still shut. Yeah, you weren't in your dressing gown. I was in my dressing gown, like crying, and um she looked at my scar and she said, Diana, I think you need to go go back to the hospital, didn't you? Yeah, it's got worse. And I wasn't feeling particularly well in myself, but again, didn't tell anyone. And um we went to MAU and Olivia stayed with my mum, and when we got to MAU, we checked in and the midwife came out, and the first thing she said before she even asked us, like to come through, she said, Where's your baby? And that was the first time that I thought to myself, I'm being judged here for leaving my child at home. Do you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it might yeah, I guess it came across that way to you.
SPEAKER_02But it's she wasn't, but obviously it's a safe guy and thing, but in my mind, I was like, hold on a minute, like you do know what I mean, um and I hate to admit this now, like I was so happy to be at the hospital with just you, like, and that just says everything about where my head was at. Yeah, away from my child, like that's just crazy, isn't it? Just to have an hour and a half on my own with you, away from my baby, and I was so happy. Which that just that just shows that speaks so so much volume about where I was mentally, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um I think that sorry, yeah, it does like obviously like we knew something was up, but we didn't know what up because there was like so many other factors playing in that yeah, obviously you're scared infected, that's a massive factor. Yeah, you're still in agony because you're still healing, you're constantly like exhausted, you're all nice, so we didn't really know like what is going on at that point.
SPEAKER_02I think I was just in survival mode, like I had no routine, I had no enjoyment in anything. I avoided being alone with Liv if I could, like, I just was kept saying to myself, it will pass, it will pass, it's the baby blues. Because again, that's what you read, it's just the baby blues, you know. Yeah, that's what people says. When did you first notice that something was wrong with me?
SPEAKER_00I think after that I was doing it. Yeah, yeah. Like I I couldn't put anything for certain. Yeah. If we were all just guessing, your mum and dad just guessing, I was just guessing, like, is it this? Is it that?
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Uh like we didn't we couldn't put two together. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? But I think after that was with a visit, and then when we got home, then it started coming to life slowly. That hold on, he is like it's not the physical pain, it's not this, it's not that, it's not the thoughtness. It's like in my head. He's he's something something as yeah.
SPEAKER_02I think um I I really try to mask it, but I am quite black and white, like you'll know when something's wrong with me. Like I'm quite obvious. Does that make any sense? Yes, and I think you can only mask it for so long.
SPEAKER_00No, I know.
SPEAKER_02Do you know what I mean? And I remember, you know, I used to sit in bed every night with you and cry my eyes out. I don't want to do this, you know, and I think that's such a scary thing for you as my husband to see, like, I was just a complete and utter mess. Like I I was like a shell of my personal, like I tr genuinely believed that I had left my whole like mental state, my uh my personality was at the hospital still. Do you know what I mean? And I left that hospital with a different woman, and I did. Do you know what I mean? I went in there with such like positive thoughts and excitement, and it came out like and it just got turned it on pretty quick, yeah, yeah. Um so I guess over the next few days it kind of became more apparent, and I actually reached out to um a friend of mine, Jazz, and I actually looked through my messages to Jazz, and it was the 3rd of January, so this is like two weeks after Olivia's born, and I messaged her and I just said, Jasmine, something's not right, yeah, like you know, and she very quickly said, Deanne, I think you need to speak to the doctor, and you agreed. So we went to speak to my GP and automatically they just put me on antidepressants, didn't they? Yeah, straight away. And I was kind of like shafted off a little bit. You're a new mum, yeah, it's hard. Do you know what I mean? And I was a bit like just give it thumbs before it's just the early stages, and I I had to basically muddle along, and we did for a few months, but I guess in between that, my midwife um Mel, if you're listening, love you so much. Um, our community midwife Mel, she is incredible. She's a legend, she is a legend. Um, she advised that we could have something called a birthing debrief, which is where you can go in after you're um had your baby, and you can there's a consultant there, and they talk you through all of your birthday notes of like why why this happened, why that happened, and guess give you just a bit of a clearer picture of of that day. So in my brain, I was like, Yes, that will that will heal me. I'll go in, find out why I had to have all this done, and I'll be I'll be healed. Yeah. Um, so we had the birth and debrief, and to be honest, it it was informative, and I feel like it gave me some answers, but I think I was too far in by that point.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, because obviously you didn't get that debrief early on, and then I guess we couldn't figure out like what's going on at the early stages, like we had to wait for such a period of time until like this thing started to get into place to help you with uh what was going on.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Obviously, like yeah, you enter the debrief and then they gave you all this information and then all the breakdown for that period of time and what happened. But it yeah, in a way it gave you answers to certain things, but it didn't to others, it didn't yeah, you couldn't see the picture part of that debrief.
SPEAKER_02What we did, well what we the I think the main point I took away from that debrief is that the morning that Livia was born, before we'd got into the hospital, or like as we'd got in, the consultants were basically arguing over me, weren't they? About should we try and get the baby in, should we try and get the baby out? And they were arguing back and forth, back and forth, and then the lead consultant came in and was like, I don't know what you you're all talking about. This baby needs to come out. That's why it was so quick, and like they she went the consultant basically said this girl needs to get lunch to like the labour room now. Yeah, that's why it happened so quickly. So I could appreciate that part, but again, I think I was so far in that I I'm not sure if I ever if I took any notes away from it. Does that make sense?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, no, it does, and also like I yeah, or like with me as well. I understand that part that they could have very kind.
SPEAKER_02team and then they couldn't figure out what they want to do between themselves and then the lead comes through the jump to like okay you need to do this now yeah but at five even five ten minutes we don't have made as much of a difference yeah someone could have sat us down and then walked through like okay that's where we are but because of the timing this is what's gonna happen it was nothing so we were walking into something completely blind yeah and then that threw us off massively like yeah what lot do you know what as well though like and again in my birthday notes all written in black big black bold letters was I have got bad anxiety when it comes to any hospital things like I spent a lot of my childhood and my early teens and my 20s in hospital with multiple ear operations I hate the bloody place also I had such a traumatic birth and time and that is documented in my notes like you know after I gave birth and those 48 hours that I was on that ward it's heavily documented that I was like you know inconsolable at some points so I feel like just you know maybe just a bit more grace around the situation and actually if they took time to read the notes properly and see that I did have anxiety and I was quite nervous throughout my pregnancy as it was do you know what I mean like just like you said five minutes just to sit me down for just five minutes but it was literally 30 seconds yeah um and I think you know and I did say and you know they were really apologetic and they did apologize but I'd like I say I was so far in no the damage was already done. Exactly but you know that's I guess it's what they learn from when I feel like a birth in debrief was also like a reflection of from from them as well that they can learn from their mistakes. Yeah I guess like you know they like it's kind of it works both ways but yeah I I think so uh and then yeah hopefully like in the future a lot they can learn from me then they're not gonna have they're not gonna do the same to uh other people yeah uh in the same way but I just want to stress that you know anybody can have that up to a year post birth your birthing debrief um so you know you can request that by your GP or your midwife um or the health visitor and I do recommend it I think you know I know it didn't help me in some respect but you know it might help some other women with just understanding of what happened so yeah um just wanted to make everyone aware of that um so I guess now we're at the stage of like maybe like April time so it's been like Liv's like four months old and we will say that she was a poorly baby she was constipated all the time she cried all day every day she was like resistant to her bottle she was hungry but she refused the bottle and we were back and forth to doctors between this four months weren't we yeah and then we say it was something we knew it's all I know call it both intuition but she they said oh you're a new mum she's got colic blah blah blah and and I just you know you've got to think a screaming baby you'd like you'd gone back to work by this point as well might I say yeah I'm left at home all day with this screaming baby that I can't console she won't eat she's crying because she's hungry or just crying because she's in argument she's constipated like so bad and we just tried everything and um in the end it was Easter weekend wasn't it we took her to AE because she was just it like we couldn't we couldn't calm her down.
SPEAKER_00It was like literally vehicle visitors.
SPEAKER_02And it turned out that she had a bowel blockage from the protein in the cow's milk. Yeah and we'd sort of explained that to the GP about two weeks prior and they'd fobbed us off literally literally fobbed us off and we're like no um and yeah like bought that ball and we went to like five different four formulas I was so sick as well of hearing terms oh you're just a new mum and I was like no like no but anyway Livia was diagnosed with um a cow's pork protein allergy and she was given this special milk and she just changed overnight didn't she yeah she literally changed overnight and she was just a new baby she was so happy oh yeah 100% and obviously like she was still afraid of the bottle at the beginning beginning but then I think she just had such an aversion to it because she was like this is gonna make me poorly yeah because like it gone on for so long every time she had the bottle she was in agony yeah that her uh I think her brain processed it as like I can't have it because as soon as I have it on poorly and she kept resisting it. But then slowly slowly I think with the new milk she she did really well and she was pooping left right and centre wasn't she after that yeah my god it was like poo nah then she wasn't crawling in agony she was crying because she was hungry yeah like just like a normal baby yeah yeah um so it was nice to finally get a diagnosis for that but again I was just already like left so traumatised by it. Yeah because it'd gone on for so long it'd gone on for so long yeah so I actually reached out to my GP again and they suggested that I go on um so it was a course for new mums and it was called um it was like an improve your mood a peridatal improve your mood course so it's basically like a form of C B C T training where you could like rewire your brain to think more positively. Yeah and I did find it informative and I did find it good um but again I think I was so far in. I needed like I needed something specific yeah exactly that um one of the actual terms they used in one of the slides was um you know uh do you think you're a bad mum? Now I that that that phrase for me it triggers me and when the course finished I actually they asked for feedback and I said to them I think you need to change the wording in that and not be I'm so what are you doing? I'm sorry no one can see this but Totty's like trying to crick his neck he looks like a frog then alright Jesus I can't help you though oh my god I'm so sorry thanks oh my god um oh god where was I sorry yes one on the slides um the term was bad mum and I found that really triggering tri triggering for me and um when the course ended I um I actually reached out and said I think you need to change the wording in that because that was a real big trigger for me and probably for a few other mums and it actually passed in October of last year they actually changed the wording in it so it does not say bad mum anymore because you know that's all I told myself I wasn't saying it's a devoid yeah but I think it just was really important just not not to use it. I found it particularly triggering and I remember when they were doing the slide on that particular week I'd switched off because I just didn't want to hear it you know um but so I did that course it was a six week course and yeah like I say it was it's helped in a way it helped in a way yeah like I think we could see a bit of a difference already yes yeah yeah yeah yeah did you yeah I was going to question did you yeah no definitely like obviously you done done the course and then we could start seeing the difference as you were getting further along with the course towards the end of it so it did help.
SPEAKER_00I definitely think it helped my bond yeah um with lift 100% because you started bonding already obviously like like every time she cried you didn't question yourself like oh what did I did I do something wrong am I hurting her yeah like you started to feel more connected confident with her like oh she's crying yeah yeah yeah she's hungry she's crying not because I'm doing something wrong she's crying because she's a normal baby when she was crying for all those months I actually in my brain because this is how my brain worked she hates me she absolutely hates me like that's what I thought she cries all the time because I'm the worst mother in the world yeah that's what I thought which you know again like it's just mental to think about now because I'm a bloody great mum and I was a great mum I just see it's been great you don't want in that moment nobody could tell you you could tell me to you blew in the face my mum and my dad could all the girls could you know my friends family colleagues I wouldn't listen to anyone apart from that little parrot on my show I don't listen anyway no you are right I don't actually listen to us no never doesn't live never does live literally she doesn't listen to bloody web we say no um so yeah I I'm I'm glad I did it but I think it would be help a lot of women um but as I say I think I just need a bit further help so we I think like loads of time is the timing is is really important and then is a massive factor that if anyone who's struggling or they think that something's off or something's out of the blue yeah they need to jump on it straight away and then keep pushing the GP because they stretched out NHS is on his knees yeah you just need to keep pushing push it or no like if he's like oh am I bothering them again or like oh like I don't want to really bog them again but you've got to keep all like oh where is the point for me to go back there they're not gonna do anything you just need to push it harder and harder because the more I don't know if I'm gonna use the correct wording but more forceful more pushy you are on the subject yeah then there is a bigger chance that they're gonna jump on it instead of they just put your case on one side and then they're gonna review it in a few months. Like you need to be more harsh forceful with them.
SPEAKER_02I actually remember not rude but demanding no no no yeah I actually remember though um for my six week check and I'd already been put on the antidepressants by them but I'd gone to that appointment and I'd done my hair and my makeup like wash my hair and in my notes on my NHS app where you can you can see the summary of your appointment he wrote in there patient has showered done hair and had makeup on as if to like say oh she's not depressed because she could do her makeup and wash her hair and I was like are you joking me like that's ridiculous like that that he had to make that comment lucky that he's not there anymore. I think they're upset with everything in the yeah they do they do but still like yeah but sometimes it is again the burden as well yeah again it's that me putting on a front to everybody yes I've showered I'm fine yeah everything's wonderful yeah but I mean yeah but what I'm trying to say like sometimes the burden can be like can mean a different way of of different things like one of them can say like oh yeah she done the makeup done this done that yeah oh yeah she looks great but then when someone else gonna read those notes then brain gonna process it in a different way yeah no I know that well then I process it a different way then because I thought he was being like oh yeah she's not suppressed it's how they portray it but I think it was just very strange how why he had to write that. Do you know what I mean? Yeah yeah you know I was there for a six week check like including Olivia and me and he had you know he had to make a comment that I mean by all means did I not look like a clamour model but you know I wash for God's sake.
SPEAKER_00No but you tried to not make an effort to go to an appointment up in your dressing all in jummies and do you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_02Do you know why? Because and I'll tell you why because I there were days where I couldn't even brush my teeth I was so debilitated and crippled with this anxiety and this overwhelming feeling when I had to go face somebody I'd look a million dollars because I'd have to pretend that I was fine so I became very good at like masking it and actually and I speak about this on my Instagram I I was very good at switching back to the old Leanne so the old Leanne prior to Liv was funny you know jokey laughy full of confidence you know and I can switch back to her like that I remember her how how she was and I can just act like it and a lot of people I think around me assumed that I was fine but yeah the one who wasn't that close to you yeah but no that's what let me just finish yeah this is what I mean though the people that are the closest to me can tell the difference between old Leanne and new Leanne who's putting on old Leanne's front does that make any sense so I got very good at doing that with people like the doctors for example the midwives that come around people that I didn't see all the time like yeah everything's wonderful it's great I love being a mum and then what followed on from that I suppose we we're sort of coming towards it we went on our little holiday in September didn't we and took Liv away and that was like really sweet. Yeah and then it got to Christmas and obviously Livy was born on the 22nd of December she was Christmas baby and this is where things changed for me because it was her birthday and around that time was extremely like triggering for me around that Christmas time and we threw her a birthday party for her first birthday and I feel like I threw it more for me than anybody else just to like celebrate that I'd survived a year but actually inside I was you weren't doing I wasn't well and you know an hour before that party I was sobbing to my mum mum I can't do this I I know do you know what I mean not many people know that because when people walked into the party I was like hello welcome blah blah it's great you know um and Christmas went and gone and we I made the decision to move back home um with mum and dad so my my mental health was I mean at its worst and yeah and then obviously you like you weren't doing very well and then no that I feel like Christmas really triggered you wanted to be closer to your mum yeah I think after that period of time I went into a bit of a downward spiral didn't I and I couldn't I couldn't cope with it and by this point I had started a new job which shout out to you all who are amazing and um that was that was the decision to go back home. I needed to be I couldn't be on my own yeah and I needed to be with my mum which my mum and dad are both incredible people and they have been just absolutely fantastic throughout this whole journey but I just needed my mum yeah um so we moved back home and that was in March of last year wasn't it and I think we moved in and about a week or two weeks later my mum and dad have flown to Spain and I wasn't doing well and it was I was at home with Liv and I remember sending you a message at work and Livia was having a nap and I text you and I and I said I don't want to be here and you you need to come home and it's so hard for me to admit that now but you rushed home and I think that was the moment it hit me that that's it hasn't this hasn't gone away and I thought that's what I found most difficult was it that it stays with you like until something triggers you.
SPEAKER_00So I thought you know sort of from like the September to the November I was okay Christmas came triggered me then by the March I mean I was just running on empty like I was just an absolute mess really um and and that's when we said like okay like we need to go back to the doctors and we need to do something and it's so scary that day because you you came home that day and what was your thought what was your reaction like when you received that message what was going through your mind at that point well obviously I was like mortified I'm like like well what is going on like hold on like let's like I need to go and find out like what's the matter like because obviously you you were doing really well after you've done that initial change uh yeah calls.
SPEAKER_02Did you notice like a change in me like over the Christmas period and the cut those coming months leading to that message like where did you notice things?
SPEAKER_00You know me yes obviously like Sundays and timings triggered you more like Christmas period like you were getting a bit like more sensitive sometimes angry yeah the rage was out snappy yeah um not very talkative yeah like especially when it came to like 22nd around the time that she was born yeah coming up to Christmas um yeah like you didn't really want to socialise nothing and then and I did and I I I that's so what you said about that it's so important like the anger and the rage was just sometimes I couldn't control it.
SPEAKER_02I'd see red and I would just and I remember there was one particular night where I I'd started an argument with you for no reason and I saw red and I left the house and I came back and I'd argued with my dad and I don't really argue I don't argue with my parents there's nothing to argue with them they're great um but my dad was horrified wasn't he he was like he said you it's like you was possessed like something had taken over your brain because the rage that that particular day was so bad I just I like I'd lost my mind and I was like nobody's listening to me there's something wrong with me but you all were you were all trying to help me but I it was like I didn't want it yeah it didn't in my brain it was like you're you're all against me you all think I'm mental which is so silly to think now because all you were trying to do is help me but in that particular moment I couldn't see it. No and again like you say pulling away from my friends I'd cancel plans I would you know not go out I'd be like oh sorry Liv's ill she wasn't ill or I might I'm ill can't you know just because I just I couldn't bring myself to be around people I just wanted to sit in my hole yeah yeah and also I think in a way that sit in my hole what does that mean sit in my dark hole in a dark place dark place honestly why do I say it like that how it yeah and I think like knowing you yeah you you're very about beeper's opinion absolutely like obviously like before Olivia like oh yeah oh yeah I I will say I'm gonna I'm gonna butt in there because I'm so much better now now I don't care oh yeah before oh my god it used to consume me didn't it like what people thought about me or yeah like what what what what do you think of oh lot if I wear this or if I say that if I like what I said to you like it doesn't matter what people think as long as you feel comfortable of what you're doing with what you're saying what yeah you're wearing whatever as long as you're comfortable as long as you feel okay as long as you're happy with your surroundings yeah people's opinion like you shouldn't reflect on people's opinion and then make your plans and make your day based on oh what people are gonna think yeah you don't want me you can you can listen to advices absolutely but like you know me I know honestly I wish I could be more like you and I feel like I am now to a certain extent but yeah you are such a big hype man like you you don't give a shit what anybody thinks you really don't you've all you've always been like that and I think it's such a great skill to have like you couldn't care less what Tom Dick and Harry are saying oh no as long as you know like what you're doing and you're happy like I just think yeah the problem nowadays is that people so judgmental they can judge so quick before actually learning the story behind something or knowing the person of what what them situation is 100% what they gone through what they doing what they're capable of doing yeah with life yeah they get too judgmental instead of mining their own business 100% 100% sorry I was just saying you never know what somebody's going through. No and I've learned that so much and like over the course of Olivia's you know existence um people have given me their opinions and stuff and it's some things that I haven't wanted to hear and some things have really affected me and you know I'm at a point now where if somebody say something to me I'm like you know I honestly don't care. But you need to learn how to be selective selective what oh my god what a great word what a floody great word yeah be selective about what you want to hear and what you don't want to hear like do you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_00You need to learn what advice is or opinions to take because if you're gonna take every single advice or opinion or little comment on heart yeah it's gonna eat you up alive.
SPEAKER_02But it did do you know what I mean and it's funny because the only real advice I ever took was from my mum because she she's just the voice of bloody reason Elaine isn't she and dad yeah and you like I don't know yeah I feel like they were really good at giving me their like advice and opinions and I've always respected that and you to be honest. Look um I think more so now before I was like I'm not gonna listen to you but now I do actually listen to you.
SPEAKER_00Just a little bit well not that much.
SPEAKER_02You are like Voice of reason today. I'm loving this.
SPEAKER_00Um, it got to be because otherwise it's gonna send you into dark yeah hole, as you said.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, no, honestly, where'd that come from?
SPEAKER_00Honestly, yeah, and then like like obviously nowadays, everything everyone is so sensitive, yeah.
SPEAKER_02I know you've got to be so careful about what you say right now, you know, and how it affects people, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Because you don't know a lot of people's backgrounds, people's stories, and then you can actually get something that you might done mean in a harmful way, yeah.
SPEAKER_02But like Especially for someone who is going through depression or they're in a bad place.
SPEAKER_00I I think you've just got to know like yeah, as you said, and then also nowadays, like so many people struggling with mental health in these, I'll just say it as it is, like fucked up rushed bird, yep, that and then you can't see it. The issue with mental health is a lot of people struggling with it.
SPEAKER_02That's what I mean, like a physical problem. You you know, you can see with somebody like mental health is a side, it's a silent killer, like it sounds awful, but it is, and I you know that day in March when I messaged you, like I wanted to die, Totty. Like I couldn't my head was I couldn't stand the voice in my head anymore. Yeah, you know. Um, and uh so after that, we you you and my mum and my dad after that also like fuck this shit, we're going back to the doctors. Yeah, we went back to the doctors, and we and you we just kept well no, we went to the GP actually, and they uh they reached out to the perinatal team, but because I was one year post-birth, they couldn't help me. Yeah, um, they could only give me like the basic CBCT NHS therapy again, and I you were like, No.
SPEAKER_00And then the waiting list was also Yeah, the waiting list was like 10 weeks, wasn't it? And I was like, And I said, I waited in ten weeks, not a child.
SPEAKER_02So we found we found a private therapist, didn't we, who specialized in birth trauma and post-natal depression, and she completely changed my whole life.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's worth it. Like I know like people like struggling, uh like nowadays people struggling more and more financially, and everything costs more and more. Yeah, but like you got to do it's you're investing in yourself.
SPEAKER_02That's that's what I'm saying. It's worth it, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Instead of waiting like for uh like I know like it's hard to like get that much money out, especially if it's like someone who's uh a lot in a financial struggle, uh going through a lot with that as well.
SPEAKER_02Like but you got to do it, like it's worth it, it is, and I feel like that was a huge turning point for me, and she was incredible, and I work really closely with her, and we've talked through you know a lot about my birth trauma and my bond with Liv, and actually just getting it all out was I had a lot of guilt around when um she was born and she was put on my chest and I didn't feel anything. And my therapist actually said something to me and I'll never forget it. She said, Leanne, it was such a traumatic time. Why would you feel love? And I said, What do you mean? And she said, Well, if I walked into this room now and held a gun to your head, would you tell me that you loved me? And I was like, No. She said, Then so then why would you feel that? Why would you why do you have to expect to be to feel that way? Because I just expected that I'd feel like that, but I wouldn't. I was in such a scared state of shock, what had just happened. Of course, I'm not going to feel anything. And that for me was like the turning point when I started to feel all the feelings that I should have felt back then, like at that time. Yeah, and I'm just the intense love for Olivia. And that and I remember driving home from that appointment, and I remember going home, it was the mist of summer, and you and her were playing in the garden, and I remember just giving her a cuddle, and I I felt like it then it was like a spark, something ignited in me, and I thought, you know what? I'm gonna beat this. And I worked for months and months with this therapist and on myself, and it was just incredible the transformation.
SPEAKER_00Like, yeah, again, as I said, like the longer you wait to do anything about it, wait for it to happen, or wait to something to start progressing with it, the longer you wait, the worse it gets.
SPEAKER_02And I think you know, like we spoke about your dad, not talking about it is probably the worst thing you can't you can do.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, like not talking about it at all is the worst thing you can do, and then just keeping it inside of you and not acting on it, yeah. A lot as early as possible, as quick as you can. Yeah, it's just gonna get worse and worse and worse, and then to recover from it, it takes a long time, yeah, and then it's gonna be a hard long battle. Yeah. So yeah.
SPEAKER_02And I think um, you know, as the kind of the months progressed over last year, I, you know, really did get a lot better, and we we moved back out in November of last year, didn't we? And that's where we are now. And I'm not gonna sit here and say that I am transformed because I'm not, but I feel like I'm in a lot of a better place in terms of my bond with Olivia and being a mum.
SPEAKER_00Oh, with all the dogs.
SPEAKER_02I still have days where I'm very anxious, and I still have days where you're laughing.
SPEAKER_00I know you're I do get a bit aggy, but I you know, look, we we're gonna have days when we ball for an edge, we have a bicker, or we're just yeah, but there's like days each other, but now there's more good days and bad days, right?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, um, and you know, around Christmas time in Jan, I did have a little bit of bad anxiety a couple of weeks where I didn't really want to go out and stuff, and I had to kind of work through that myself, and yeah, but I've got the tools to do that now.
SPEAKER_00Oh, 100%, you know. Also, like everyone around you now is more aware of what is going on, more aware of the story behind you, we know now what's triggering you the story behind me.
SPEAKER_02Like, I have spoken about my postnatal depression quite openly because it's not spoken about it. You got to, yeah, and I just want to say like as well that that version of me that we've spoken about is not who I am anymore, and and at the time I never thought I'd be able to say that. I generally thought that this is how I was gonna feel forever, and I guess somewhere along the way I started to feel a bit like me again, and I know that I'm never gonna be old Leanne, and I'm but I'm gonna be this version of myself which is better, stronger, confident, happier. Yeah, do you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_00Oh, yeah, 100%.
SPEAKER_02And I guess out of all of this, you know, it was such a crap time, and it I say crap, it was the worst time my whole life. At the end of it, we have our little girl, and she's the reason to keep on going every day, isn't she? Yeah, me, you know, she's happy as Laddie, keeps us on our toes, she's just the most amazing little girl, and yeah, and you know, when I sort of give her a cuddle and I say no night to her now, and she's she says no night, mum, I love you. You know, I never thought that 18 months ago that that would be the case, yeah, that we'd have such a close bond because she is a mummy's girl.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, 100%. She's a mummy's girl. Every time, like mommy, mommy, mommy, as soon as she sees you, you're just mommy.
SPEAKER_02Although sometimes when I just want to have a we in peace, you know, she's at the stairs, meme! Hello, yeah, like um, but no, yeah, I think it was just been um over quite a journey, but we've yeah, we've done it together, and you've been the most incredible support of my friends and my family. No, you and you know, I think we have to also just touch on the fact that you were going through all of your you know stuff of your dad as well, and you held yourself both so well, and you should be really proud of yourself. And actually, when I obviously we up we put the podcast stuff, um, there were so many comments just saying like how incredibly brave you are and you know how amazing you are. So, like, just yeah, be be really proud of yourself too.
SPEAKER_00Like, thank you.
SPEAKER_02You're welcome. Um, so I guess that's it. But we've got our questions. Should we do our questions? Gone then. Are you ready? I don't know, I guess. So the first question was asked by four different people, and it was what jeans did you decide to wear to the hospital?
SPEAKER_00If it was my logo's favourite, my blue denim doesn't fit me anymore because I've got fancy then and then I'll quite tell them about it because that was my favourite.
SPEAKER_02Were they the stretch ones? Yeah, the stretch ones. Yeah, they were the stretch ones.
SPEAKER_00It still fit me with the struggle. Yeah, yeah. But yeah.
SPEAKER_02People asked that and I was like, it's brilliant.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, still got those bother me.
SPEAKER_02Oh my gosh. Um, so the next question, when did I know I had post-netal depression? Um again, I think we touched on it just probably around the like New Year's Eve time, so maybe like two weeks after Liv was born. Yeah. I thought to myself, like, I should be feeling a lot better now, and I and I wasn't. Yeah, well, physically you see, physically, yeah, but mentally, like it was just like a black cloud in my head, and yeah, that's how we started seeing like the signs.
SPEAKER_00So we can think this of the list, this of the list, this of the list, what earth can be that, yeah. Can you feel all that? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Um, and could I recognise the signs now? Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And I feel like you know, my friends or my family or whoever have had babies, I I'm so conscious of it. Do you know what I mean? That new stage of life, and I know how hard those first few weeks are. So I kind of think, yeah, absolutely, I would be able to recognise, and I think you would as well. Oh, no, yeah, you know. Um, do you think Totti's dad dying was the start of your post-net pre-natal depression? Sorry. Um, I don't think it was. I do think it was the start of my anxiety when you left for two weeks to go home. I think that was the start. And to be honest, prior to that, I've never really coped well on my being on my own at home. Um, I always hated when you're out, but when you were away for two weeks, it was I found that heavily pregnant as well. Heavily pregnant as well. Like I felt very isolated, very alone, and even now I struggle just sometimes when you're not here, it's like, oh god, I do get it. I know he's only going to test goals, but come back. Where are you? Um, and I guess the last question is if you could go back to those early days, what would you tell yourself? Do you know what? I think I'd just be a lot kinder to myself and a bit more patient with myself. And actually, it's hard as it sounds now. Like, I I would tell myself that there is an end point, and you are not gonna feel like this forever because in that moment you really do believe that you're gonna feel like that's it, this is gonna be me now, and this is gonna be my life, and and in in some way you have to I accepted it like okay, well, this is my life, no one can help me, and I'm not gonna get better. So I think I would just tell myself that you know it's gonna be okay, and you are so strong, and yeah, also just like to lean on the people around you. I you know, I was quite outspoken, I kept saying to you, Toddy, I'm not okay, you know.
SPEAKER_00And some people don't, yeah, and also like as I said as well, like just don't be afraid to say that I need help, I'm struggling, yeah. And then just be easy on yourself, like it's stressful as it is, be patient that you're set off, just give yourself time, it's a massive change in your life, yeah. Like, just take it that easy, take it uh day by day as it goes because you just put that too much stress and pressure on yourself, you're just gonna crumble, yeah.
SPEAKER_02And I think actually, like I tell you know, future mums or future friends of mums, like just be like kinder to yourself and be gentle, like this newborn bubble that everybody talks about, it it's just not like that for some women, and I think it's just checking on your friends and make sure that they're okay, you know.
SPEAKER_00Even though if they seem okay, just yeah, yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_02And I because they're more not exactly, and I think sometimes you kind of have to push it a bit to just to ensure that they are okay.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, not like any sort of like, oh, you're right, yeah, yeah. Oh, okay, brilliant. Yeah, oh you're actually okay.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, absolutely. And this is why sometimes I stopped replying to a lot of people because I'd be like, Yeah, I'm fine, but in reality I wasn't, but I was so sick of saying it, but actually, no, I need to speak up. Yeah, so I think that's that's what I would take away from it. Yeah, it's just to talk and and be kind to yourself. You've gone through this whole experience of having your pregnancy, giving birth, and coming out the other side of it, your life looks a whole lot different. I'm not saying it's a bad thing, but I'm just saying that there's a lot of change, take it step by step, step by step, absolutely, and you know, we're two years down the line now, we have our beautiful girl, and we you know we're still learning every day, we're in the throes of the bloody toddler tantrums at the minute. Yeah, you know, that's just a whole different ball game, and it makes me laugh stage, it's a terrifying stage, and it makes me laugh because I literally'm like, give me a newborn any day. Yeah, at least when you put that dog, they're there, they're there. Um but yeah, thank you um all to for all of you um for listening to part one, and I really hope you've enjoyed part two. And as I said last time, I hope if it just helps one person, then I've done my job. Um, and again, thank you, Toddy, for coming on and having a conversation with me and chatting. And you've been great, and you are great, and you're the best dad. Thank you. Best hubby, pain in the ass, but we we do we do love you.
SPEAKER_00And also, like you should be proud of yourself. I'm proud of you, or like what you achieved, what you've gone through, and then you came out on the better end of it. Oh, thanks, babe. You did amazing. Thank you. Just as I said to you, just take it easy and then take it one step by step. Yeah, and then yeah, love you. Love you too, darling.
SPEAKER_02Thank you. And I guess we'll be back soon for the next episode. Watch this space. And if you haven't already, you can follow us on Instagram at motherhood honestlypod. I'm your host Leanne, and thank you for listening. Leanne, and thanks for listening.