Ep4 - Iron Man 2 Retrospective with Daredevil BA S2 Ep2 & 3 Review

Episode 4 - The Goodell Bros highlight their thoughts on the Daredevil Born Again Season 2 Episodes 2 & 3 then segway into a full breakdown and retrospective view on Iron Man 2.

Like Marvel? Yes! Like MCU? Yes! Like hearing about superheroes, movie rumors, trailer reactions? Welcome to the Goodell Multiverse podcast! Just two movie and Marvel nerds, Ike & Sam Goodell aka The Goodell Bros, just talking about all the Marvel content they can! Turning a passion into a podcast.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

On every timeline in every universe, there's one thing that we always talk about. Marvel. Welcome to the Goodell Multiverse Podcast. I am Sam Goodell. I'm Isaiah Goodell. Thank you for joining us for our March to Doomsday. All right, guys, are you ready? We are excited on this new episode. This is episode four, uh, Iron Man 2 Retrospective. We've been having fun doing the other Marvel films so far, and some definitely have some hot takes, I would say, on the first two films thus far. Let's see what the third film's gonna do for us. But before we get into that, we're gonna start our little show off um by talking about the news, and then we're gonna roll into Daredevil Born Again Season Two. They released two episodes of in this past week. So we are gonna dive into what we think about those episodes, and then of course talk about our main topic at hand, Iron Man 2.

SPEAKER_01 1:04

Yes, and if you like what you see and hear, guys, please hit the subscribe, follow, all that fun stuff. Whatever you can do to give us a hand to keep us going, show us that you guys are paying attention and like what we're doing, and we'll keep her going. We're gonna do it regardless, hopefully. So, but yeah, help us along, that'd be awesome.

SPEAKER_02 1:20

Yeah, we're just we're kind of amateurs at this, so we're just setting it up with our phones and some ring lights. And uh, I put together like a little slideshow to help us keep the pace going. But um, if you really like what you see here, just like what my brother said, if you want to subscribe, like all of our social media, follow all of our social media, definitely comment on things that helps with that YouTube algorithm to get us going and get us out there. We want to build up this channel and hopefully we could do bigger things in the future.

SPEAKER_01 1:46

Yeah, we've already been doing some talking about it, and we definitely would like you know different kind of space, different kind of cameras. We have a lot of things that we want to do, but it's all gonna be kind of dependent on uh what the reception is and how many people like to see us. So we'd love for you guys to be part of it because we would we could keep doing this. Oh, yes, we got X-Men movies, we got anything you can think of Marvel. We've been discussing talking, other different kinds of movies once we get caught up with everything, you know, in 10 years, because that's probably how long it'll take. And you know, and so but yeah, we've had a lot of good ideas. We have a lot of fun little side things we've talked and we want to try to do. So uh yeah, we would love to definitely get to that point if we can. So like and subscribe and all that fun stuff. Send us to people that you know so we can uh get a lot of listens.

SPEAKER_02 2:29

Yes, yes, and we will never say no to donations because we don't do this as a for-profit thing, we're just doing this as we're two brothers who like love Marvel to death. We just want to give our two cents on Marvel, and so that's that's why we're doing something like this. Yep, yeah, yeah. All right, so let's roll into the news of the week. Oh, yeah. Okay, so um, it is April, everybody. Actually, we are filming this the day before Easter, so happy Easter. And because it's April, we do know for a fact that Marvel is doing reshoots on Avengers Doomsday starting this month. We don't have a specific date and when they're starting, but they are expected to start this month, April 2026, and conclude by July 2026. Perfect time for Comic Con San Diego, if I should think so. Yeah, I'd say. All right. So do you have any thoughts on Doomsday, what you've heard of thus far? What do you think these reshoots are gonna entail?

SPEAKER_01 3:28

Yeah, so you know, with every movie out there, uh every movie, especially big budget movies, they before the movie even starts filming in negotiations, they talk about reshoots. Some people hear reshoots and they think, oh no, something's wrong. And that's usually never the case. Not saying that that hasn't been the case before. Some DC and Facebook could talk about in the future. You know, whole movies. But um, but normally these kind of movies, when they say reshoots, yeah, they plan on this kind of stuff because you have a certain amount of time when you make a movie and they're given a certain amount of time. And if their bud didn't keep it under budget or negotiate some more of their budget later on to, you know, things come up and they're like, hey, maybe we should have got this scene, or it'd be great to insert this cameo, you know, and stuff like that. That's what the reshoots are going to be used for, you know, for the most part. So don't ever I never jump to any kind of negativity when someone hears reshoots because it's it's just normal. It's all, oh, hey, can we get Robert back for this? Because it'd be a great man. As we film this, we realize it'd be cool if we come out of this side of the room instead of the other. And that's what that's put aside for. And and sometimes it's scheduling. Uh, sometimes it's man, we can't get this guy until way later. So that's going to go under the reshoots thing as an actual shoot. You know, and and then there are times where it could be correcting problems. I think in this case, personally, I think they've been watching what everyone's been talking about online, which is a detriment to Marvel and also a good thing that Marvel does. And I think we're just seeing people getting added. And whether they're getting added last minute or if this is when they plan to add them anyway, I think that's what's happening. Um, I hope so too, because if we have our final list of characters that was in this, then I'm a little disappointed on a couple of them. You know, if you're gonna do the old school X-Men that we had back in the day, then then where the hell is Storm and Gene Grace? So don't don't knock this opportunity. You can't tell me those two actresses got too much going on where they can't show up for a day and do a reshoot, you know what I mean? And and even if their cameo, even if it's a cameo and they're not in that long, that'd be I would as long as it's treated good, we'd be fine with that. But I think that there's a there's a lot of surprises coming with this movie as well. I they baited us already with the people they got coming and the people they have coming back. So I think anything on top of it that they're not telling us, you know, I could only imagine what that would be. You know, if you compared that to like Spider-Man No Way Home, you know, we all guessed the other two Spider-Man were in it, but up until the day of they weren't gonna tell us. Yeah. Oh, they kept that very close in their chest. And we could have we could have but our houses on and all become millionaires because we knew it was gonna happen. Yeah, but they it wasn't until after the movie was released when you're like, Yeah, you guys were right there and there. You know what I mean? So, but and it's kind of like with this doomsday, man. Look at what they're showing us, think about what they're not showing us. Yeah. And I on and on and I think Marvel's learned their lesson about showing too much in the f in the past. So I think that they're they're definitely being very they have some tricks, yeah, for sure. I mean, gosh, we how look how many trailers for the last two Avengers movies there were when there's nobody in scenes that they just insert in later. You know, so it's like, oh wow, yeah, that person's in that scene. I didn't realize that.

SPEAKER_02 6:49

So yeah, no, reshoot's exciting. Yeah, bring it. To piggyback off what you just said, for when I whenever I hear of a movie doing the reshoots, one, that's usually always part of any movie, not just Marvel, DC or comic book movies or that specific genre, but any movie usually does reshoots. And it's it's the and they're baked into people's contracts for that reason, because you know, sometimes what you put on paper doesn't translate well to the screen. And so if you could change one scene or make one, you know, a couple of specific things different, add something, maybe even take out some stuff and you have to reshoot that scene because of it. Um, then reshoots are always a good thing. The only time that it becomes a red flag is when you hear reports of multiple reshoots where they've had to do like in Brave New World, which we're gonna eventually get down the road to at some point, where they've had to reportedly film that film, the whole almost the whole film, about three to four times. And they've had three or four times of audiences testing it to say this is not working. That's when you know you got a red flag project. But yeah, but reshoots are meant to improve upon what they've already done and make it better for us as the audience to enjoy them. So whenever I hear reshoots, I don't think, oh no, doom boom goom. I always think, oh, there they see the issues and they want to make sure they address them. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And that's cool. It's good hindsight, good being proactive in that sense. My thoughts on Doomsday is that's not the full cast. Even RDJ and Marvel is like, we can add some more people. And along all, if you go anywhere on the internet right now, you're gonna hear rumors, you're gonna hear insiders saying, Oh, this person's on set, oh, this person's in talks, or this person's returning. Heck, you even go on Google and you ask, Well, what's part of the new reshoots? And it's gonna give you a list of all these different characters. But the thing is, at the end of the day, guys, nothing is confirmed yet by Marvel or the respected actors. And yes, to my brother's point when it came to No Way Home. We Andrew Garfield, he is the best at not revealing that he's there. And to the point where you could watch him, you're like, Oh, stop asking him the question. He's getting more uncomfortable. But he's doing he's just a great actor, he knows what to do. So most of these people aren't gonna confirm any of that. You're not gonna hear uh sorry, Fam Keychensen. I almost mispronounced your name. I was so stoked that matter, anyways.

SPEAKER_01 9:13

Um they're told to either say no, yeah, or I can't talk about it.

SPEAKER_02 9:18

Yeah, or they're gonna say, Well, if they call me, meanwhile, they're already on the phone with our agent saying, What role can I get in? So, yeah, the we're gonna see, I'm sure, more characters. And um we can all speculate who's gonna be in it. We have our two cents on, oh, A, B, C, and D is definitely returning, but it's not official yet. And until we see them in the trailer, it leaked out, they they talk about it, things like that. That's when we know, okay, we can start mentioning things. So, you know. So we'll see when that comes. And Marvel is just still rolling out all of their promotion for Doomsday. We have a whole year's worth of fun speculations and insider information and official releases we're gonna be talking about. They're making this thing its own event.

SPEAKER_01 10:09

Yeah, and don't forget, we have another Avengers movie coming right after. Yeah. That's gonna be with everybody in it too. Yeah. So whoever wasn't in this one, probably gonna show up in the next one, at least. It's kind of how they did in uh Infinity War and uh Endgame, where's there was more of different I mean, I think most were in both kind of, but ultimately by the entire end of uh endgame, you got everybody. You know what? Yeah. So we know they can do it, and we know that that's not the problem.

SPEAKER_02 10:38

It's just a matter of when it comes to the speculating though, I want to ask Ike a question. Just pick two characters you want to return and two characters you think are they gonna return, but they haven't announced it yet. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 10:53

So if it this is very odd, and I think you're gonna you know my answer already. If you're going to bring the old X-Men in, then you might as well as take the opportunity and bring the old X-Men in. So if Storm and Gene Gray are in it, to me that's a very big missed opportunity. Both of those actors are on record saying they'd do it to people in public. Now, obviously we know behind the scenes, maybe contractually there's an argument, so maybe that's why. But if they're telling the fans that they would do it, they're kind of throwing Marvel under the bus, making Marvel be the one that has to make it happen, then if I I can't see at any if you're gonna do it, give it to us because that's the one thing that's gonna turn us off, is specifically me, and I think I can speak for you with it, is if you do those guys wrong, you might as well just leave the movie. I mean, you can't do them dirty. You know, it's like you can do interesting stuff and we'll we'll be down for a lot of weird things. But if it's just gonna be, hey, no one really cares about these people, and we're just gonna kind of doing it for some sort of weird little fan service, then I that might be the movie raps for me, guys. Like I I really care about how they treat these people, what they do with them, you know, and Russos have proven to treat characters the best out of anyone that's been in the MCU. They all treat them real well, but the Russos really know how to treat it in a big cast for just little moments. You know, we can get the Cyclops we want in 10 minutes, you know. But if if there's not a shot of Xavier with Magneto and the X-Men standing behind him, like they're about to go whoop some butt, then what the heck are we making here? Then why are we making this movie? You know, it's like we I mean, whether they win or lose, and if it's just a shot of it, I just want to see that shot where Storm comes up in the air and Magneto's behind Xavier, and you know, Cyclops has got his glasses ready and Gene's just boom, you know. It's like what are we missing? What why not? Like that's like that's what we want to see, so let's see it, you know. And if you're gonna do fan service, and that's the fan service you need to do. Um yeah, and ones that uh I think will show up. Uh I think well, you know, I would be surprised if Kane isn't kind of mentioned or recast or CGI, or I don't maybe not though. You know, I say that thinking that they have to, but they don't have to. Um, I guess there'd be no other way. I think a real good way to show Doom and all his power is if he killed all the Kane's. And I know that that's been a rumor that's floated around, and I kind of hope that one's a true rumor because that'd be a great, you know. Oh cow, we thought Kane was gonna be big and bad. Here's Doom stepping over his dead bodies or something. That'd be great, you know. Um that would be my opinion, is something like that, you know. Um, I don't know, you know, it's I I'm surprised, I'll be honest. I for a long time thought we were gonna have more characters added to people, but now that we haven't by now kind of makes me thinking maybe we're not, you know, maybe not. But we have Cinemacon coming up soon, which I think there's gonna be a trailer for this. I think it's gonna be the official teaser trailer, you know, because I think if I'm not we might have to look this up to fact-check it, but I don't think Marvel's even considering the little teasers they put in front of Avatar as actual teaser trailers, or more just teasers to Doomsday itself. I think they're I think they're we're gonna get an official teaser trailer, which is gonna be more of a little bit of scope now of what we're looking at in the world and not just character scene stuff. And then we'll get a probably a main trailer by Sandy. Okay. Now, when we see those trailers publicly is a different story, but I'm sure we're gonna get guys coming out of Cinecon explain, you know, breaking down a teaser trailer to Avengers. And that's gonna be where they're gonna show that, because they're showing it to the movie studios and the movie theaters to get them excited for what's coming. So that's where they do see more. Really, they do see more stuff in a Cinemacon than they would at San Diego. So yeah, I mean I bet we get a really good description of I bet they I bet they show Spider-Man at Comic Con and they give you a teaser trailer for Doomsday. But not Comic Con, uh Cinemacon. Yeah, but when they go to Cinemacon, they're all gonna be the movie they're gonna watch, they're gonna watch Spider-Man.

SPEAKER_02 15:21

Well, we do know that all of the majority, I would say, of the heads of all these movie theaters, why they're going to Cinemacon is to get their theaters excited and prepped for this is what Sony's rolling now, Marvel's Pro rolling now, DC's rolling out, all that stuff. So they're getting them prepped for the upcoming releases and see what they're gonna do. Deals are made when it comes to like merchandise and all the promotions, all that stuff, uh usually at these things type of things. Um, but it's already been reported that most of them believe that this Avengers Doomsday is gonna be their biggest movie of the year. So they're kind of already have that mindset of okay, we're just gonna now prepare for December, you know, because Doom 3 coming out, Doomsday, whether one of them is gonna blink and change their release dates, who knows? That is a rumor that's going around right now, but it's still just a rumor. It's nothing's official yet. So as far as we know, Dune's Day is actually happening. So right, yeah, nothing's changed there. Nothing, nothing's officially changed. So yeah. This would be a really crappy thing that Marvel does desk. But watch watch they release their teaser trailer and it's all those four trailers just mashed into one. Oh my god. And and make you be like, really? Oh. Not that I don't think Marvel would actually do that because that would be really four pan poor fan service. I mean, if they did it, they would still add in different scenes, newer scenes, something that says this is new and fresh, but yeah, if they do that, I'll be like, what the heck, man? You have there these root these movies are rumored to be three hours plus long because that's what the Rooster Brothers have openly said they want to do three hours plus long for both Doom State and Secret Wars. So if that's the case, you got enough footage there. Yeah, and there's enough B-roll to throw in because as we see in some trailers, some of those scenes in the trailers, and case in point, Iron Man 2. I found this out recently. That's why we're doing our retrospective of it. There's a scene in the trailer for Iron Man 2, never went into the to the movie. That's right, it was just changed a little bit, but it still was enough of a change where you're like, oh, that didn't get added, and I'll get basically done. So yeah. Anyways, any uh I'll just give my two cents real quick to wrap up this part of the doomsday um news. Um, two characters that I want to return. And if and I know there are fans for every character out there, so don't judge me, but also um judge me. Um I want to see She-Hulk return because I think she was perfectly cashed just in a bad show. And um, I gotta say, I and this might be a a weird one, but I want to see um Anna Pacquin come back as wrote. Oh yeah, good choice. She, I I tell you, she's in my opinion, she's probably one of the most well. We talk about X-Men, we're definitely gonna get into it because you could tell when they started the X-Men film series, she was gonna be a main thing, and then all of a sudden, by like the second and third one, she was kind of just put into the background tree like more of a Jubilee and Shadow Cat type character than the comics where they're just a kid that's there. But don't underestimate Rogue. She's and I love how Brian Singer portrayed her. I want to see what a rogue with the actual Ms. Marvel absorbed powers type thing would do. And if they they were teasing that for Days of Future Past, then they cut her out. We had a whole complete rogue cut, and much better.

SPEAKER_01 18:51

If you've liked Days of Future Pass and you've never seen the rogue cut, do yourself a favor. Oh my gosh. Because it's it's like a 10 times better movie.

SPEAKER_02 18:58

Yes. Oh, it's so it's amazing. Oh good. When we review Days of Future Pass, we're not reviewing the theatrical version of Dutch. We are reviewing the road cut, the full thing as it was meant to be.

SPEAKER_01 19:09

So when we get to the city, which is funny because today it would have worked great. I don't know why they were so skittish to do it then. Yeah, right. They say time was too long, but I'm like, not compared to what we get today. Oh my gosh. It's like I I am like, it's not too long at all, and it's great. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:23

Yeah, exactly. So I would love to see Rogue return as part of this uh this ensemble of the X-Men revisiting the Fox X-Men. If you're gonna do these type of, like you said, if you're gonna do these not cameo fests, I don't want to say that, but these castings bring these specific characters back while they're concluding the multiverse, this is your time. And if they're going all in for X-Men, I'm surprised your name wasn't already on there. Because she has openly said, in a podcast within this past, I don't know, four or five months, I want to come back and be like, Yeah, bring her back. You have Gambit. Why not have his rogue? That would be amazing, anyways.

SPEAKER_01 20:01

Yeah, no, I I agree with you 100% on that. It's like especially unless Marvel's got a plan to do some sort of X-Men versus Avengers later, which kind of sits weird with me. And this is your opportunity to do an X-Men versus Avengers, like kind of like a you mash up some stories to do it, then just bring them all, man. I mean, if you got Alan Cumming coming back as Nightcrawler, which has been since X2 that we saw it, and then you're trying to pull out some big stops. So just go all out then. It's like what's it, you know? I would rather see less of our Avengers and more in the X-Men in this movie. Yeah, that would be my compromise. Yeah. So if you can't afford all of them, well then you know, then cut, then we don't need to see the fake, you know, our crappy Captain America we have right now. Save Sam Wilson for a different movie.

SPEAKER_02 20:51

Yeah, I mean, unfortunately, I mean sentiment.

SPEAKER_01 20:54

Yeah, yeah, he's just one of them. I would I there's a couple of them I would say kick him out. But I I would take the X-Men over him. Not no offense. I like him, and I I like to see him in both these movies. But if it's a matter of money, then man, I'm telling you, give us the X-Men then. That's we'll take it.

SPEAKER_02 21:13

Yeah, so those are the two people I want in it. The two people that I'm expecting to be in it. Yeah, I would have to say, um, gosh, I'm expecting Bree Larson as Captain Marvel to be in it, and I'm expecting Monica Rambo to be in it as uh Fulton, I think is her official code name in the movies. Um the the Bree Larson part of things, uh she's if if you are bringing back the ensemble cast of the X-Men, you're gonna need heavy hitters on the Avengers. And let's face it, guys, who they have casts so far, you got good casts. I'm not saying they're bad. Like Winter Soldier, he's in it. We know he's gonna be good. Then you have some the the Black Panther, you know you have some of these characters in it. But If you're going up against the X-Men and what they've already established is the X-Men coming in, like the Magnetos and all that stuff, you're gonna need someone that's super, super powerful. And I don't think the Hulk is gonna be in this movie. That might be a hot take for me. No, I'd be surprised. But we don't know what he's gonna do in Brand New Day.

SPEAKER_01 22:20

I don't think we're gonna see the Hulk at all in Brand New Day. He's he's in Brand New Day. I don't think we're gonna see the Hulk.

SPEAKER_02 22:27

Oh the Hulk. Oh, okay. Sorry. Yeah, there's a difference. Bruce Banner, Hulk, yes.

SPEAKER_01 22:32

Yeah, I think we're only gonna see Bruce. Which if I were to do in Brand New Day, that's exactly how I'd do it. Because we don't need the Hulk in that. We want a Spider-Man. Even if you're adding some other characters that, you know, we're a little worried about, but which still isn't confirmed. By the way. But but you know, I think smartly would be just have him as Bruce Banner. I think that does good. That would be good for Mark to play himself, or to be, you know, so you can actually see him. But on top of it, it's you don't need it. You know, I think you don't need Hulk until Secret Wars. In fact, I think the next time we see Hulk, we should see him revert back to Crazy Hulk. Yes. Yes. In Secret Wars would be the best time to do it because if they do Secret Wars, anything close to comics, they all lose their memory and all that stuff. That'd be the perfect time for whatever he's done to make himself smart Hulk be reversed. So then he's on Battle World as this crazy maniac Hulk because he's been changed. Exactly. So save Hulk for that. And that's when I want to see She-Hulk again. It's been Secret Wars. Yeah. Or never again. But that's the first.

SPEAKER_02 23:35

See, for me outside on She-Hulk, I've been a fan of She-Hulk since the comics. I did like her in the comics, and I thought she does great in ensemble castings. So I was stoked when the show was announced. I even had the privilege of meeting Tatiana Maslani at a Comic-Con within the past couple of years, and she's a wonderful girl. And I think she was a great casting for Jennifer Walters. And even her performance itself, I did not personally have a problem with. It was just the script that she was given. I think that they made it too kiddish. It was too it was pushing itself to be funny, and there were points where it just wasn't funny. Yeah. And I think that they went overboard with that. And so I that's I there's only two good episodes in the She-Hulk show. I'm sorry. But in my opinion.

SPEAKER_01 24:21

Yeah. I think you're gonna get your other characters too. I I just don't know personally. I think that they're gonna be more for the second one. I think you're gonna see much like Infinity Worlds. I I I'm okay with them splitting them up too like that. But I think you're gonna you're definitely gonna get one, except for me and you're out. May just that'd be the unfortunate thing.

SPEAKER_02 24:44

All right. Anyways, let's move on from doomsday. Yeah. Everyone, if you're listening to this, uh by the way, if you're listening to this, we have a video version of this podcast now on our YouTube. So please go on to that. But if you're watching us on YouTube and you can't, you don't want to watch us on YouTube, you don't want to see our faces, or you just want to listen to the audio version of this, we are on Spotify, we're on Amazon, we're on We're on the webs. Yeah, we're on all those favorite streaming platforms. So go check us out there. And let us know in the comments below who you think should be in these reshoots for Adventures Doomsday. Yeah. What are your thoughts on the reshoots? And if you like our opinions or not, please let us know in the comments below. Next thing on our news um, No Way Home is officially coming to Disney Plus on April 15th, 2026. This marks the first time one streaming platform has had the entire library of the NCU. Wow. Thank you, Sony.

SPEAKER_01 25:42

So any thoughts on this? Yeah, it's quite crazy. I never thought about them not having everything all at once, uh, because you never go look for all at once sometimes. Yeah, I think this is the crappy part about sharing this character. Is if you did want to do like this awesome marathon of watching him see you, you get to the Spider-Man and you go, well, I guess I better rent it on Amazon or go to Fandango or whatever, which is fine. Those websites are great and those streaming services are great, but it is nice to have them all in one spot. And I I I think it's silly that the studios act the way they do about these characters and their ownership of them. You know, it's like, come on, guys. What were you gonna do with Spider-Man that Marvel didn't fix for you? Like, I'm sorry, those other movies are good. We like Andrew Garfield, we like Toby Maguire, but they those movies weren't going anywhere. You know, the third Toby McGuire one wasn't that good, you know? And maybe in a rewatch we could have a conversation about something, which we probably will. And the Andrew Garfield one, nobody liked the ending. I I don't I don't know. I I think you're kind of a fool if you thought the second one is was a fantastic movie. It's got its ups, ups, that's for sure, but it's definitely got its way downs. And Marvel knew that, you know, look what they did, look how much they even changed Electro in, you know, No Way Home. Because they knew that the blue didn't work, you know. It's like you don't think Sony kind of felt butt hurt from that, which they should, because they've been messing it up. And look at what they've been doing with the rest of the Spider-Man's group of characters they have. Those movies suck. They're just not good. You know, Venom was like a was a miracle that it was as good as it was. And then you realized you couldn't do that two more times. You know, because both those ones are they're fun. They're the better of that universe they got going on over there, but they're not that good, you know. And I don't know. It's just silly to me that why is it like this? Why do we have to wait for it? I'm glad it's gonna be there. I'm probably gonna watch it a bunch of times, you know. Uh it's a great movie. I mean, I own it, obviously I can watch anytime, but it's nice to not have to go put the DVD or you know, Blu-ray in and all the head. And someday we won't have any of that. So we would be at the behest of whatever Sony decides with these. I don't know. I just can't wait for the day Sony just throws her arms up and realizes we can't, we're not gonna do this anymore. You know, but as long as Marvel makes the money for them, they're always gonna be involved.

SPEAKER_02 28:14

So And well, at least one good thing that you would say about um this partnership, in my opinion, with uh Spider-Man. Yes, Marvel Studios, similar to what we're already talking about in this retrospective in the early starts, they are filming and they're doing these, they're producing these movies. And Sony's just distributing them, just getting a piece of the pie, all that stuff. But part of the contract that Sony has with Marvel to keep these rights is every like six years or six months or something specific like that, um, they have to be in production of a Spider-Man movie. And so if the all the rights revert back to Marvel, which a lot of people would like to see happen, there they could do Spider-Man whenever they want. So I think he's a popular enough character. They're gonna keep him going, of course, especially when they have Tom Holland and you know, you got some of these things like that. But you don't have that guarantee every six years you have a Spider-Man movie then at that point. So you could get every six years, you could go a decade, then all of a sudden you see Spider-Man again.

SPEAKER_01 29:16

So are you very familiar with their with their deal, somewhat? If I have a question, maybe you could answer. Yeah, I'll do the best that I can. If you can, there'll be something that maybe in the comments you guys let us know and and we'll look it up and maybe correct whatever we say next time.

SPEAKER_02 29:29

Yep, or check out John Campia. He actually has this very good uh segment on this. We love you, John.

SPEAKER_01 29:35

Yeah, yeah, definitely check out. I'll probably watch John's thing after our podcast today, just to clarify with myself, but made me wonder just now. So they can they just use Tom Holland whenever they wanted to then as well? Sony, if say Sony tomorrow says, you know what, we're gonna do our own Spider-Man movie. No, they can't do that. Well, they come with the animated though.

SPEAKER_02 29:55

Yeah, the animated they have certain rights to. Actually, from my understanding, and uh correct me if I'm wrong, um, I believe that Disney has a right to the animated part, like the the TV show part, but it it's it's specific time frames. If it's anything that's over a half hour, Disney can't do it. Sony has Sony can do it. If the if Sony says we're gonna do a Spider-Man TV show, it has to be like 45 minutes to 55 minutes minimum of an episode. So they can't do like a short kids show on uh whatever Cartoon Network is out there type thing. Um Tom Holland cannot appear in Disney Plus TV shows, at least at this time. Um I'm sure maybe in the future they'll amend that where he can have a cameo, all that stuff, but but he also can't appear like in the next Craven movie either. No, he can't appear in It has to be a conjoined movie. That yep, Spider-Man specific. That's why they've had the the Sony verse of Spider-Man, right? Where it's all of Spider-Man's characters, but they can't even mention Spider-Man by name. You ever notice in Madam Webb, they get so close. They say Ben Parker, they can say all these different things. They has a kid, we're gonna name him, then the cuts. Yeah, they can't even say Peter Parker.

SPEAKER_01 31:14

You see, hot take, I've never seen the Into the Spider-Verse or the other one, like the two cartoons that I don't know. Everyone says they're phenomenal. Uh, I probably should watch them.

SPEAKER_02 31:23

Well, I'm the piggyback in your I'm the piggyback in your hot take. I'm gonna tell you they are rated.

SPEAKER_01 31:28

Ooh, boy, I know I hear because I as far as I know, people say this some of the best stuff they ever saw.

SPEAKER_02 31:34

I know. I see many of you guys on YouTube, and I highly respect you. I love you, I listen to you all the time, even if I don't agree with everything. But I am telling you, I've watched the first one, I liked it, but I wouldn't have said, oh, it's better than some of these other things that they've done for Spider-Man. And I watched the second one, I didn't even finish the second one because part of me was like switching off in it. Yeah. And I know people have said the second one's better than the first, it's the best they've ever done with Spider-Man. I don't think it's the best they've ever done with Spider-Man.

SPEAKER_01 32:07

Well, yeah, see, I have a strained relationship with cartoons. I'm not, and it's not anything to do with whether I think they're good or bad. I don't want to think I'm telling you you're wrong or that I get why you like them. I just have a disassociation with them for some reason. I feel like they're not made for me. And I like to, when I watch a movie, I like to feel that moment of immersion, like where I'm I can feel like you know, I forget the rest of the world. And when it's a cartoon, I never can because to me it's always been just that's just purely fun entertainment, which makes I mean there's good cartoons out there. I'm not gonna say they're not, but I've I can't other than Land Before Time when I was six years old, I don't cry at cartoons because I cartoon these guys.

SPEAKER_02 32:47

And if you don't know, yeah. If you don't cry at Land Before Time, you are a psycho.

SPEAKER_01 32:53

Yeah, yeah. Maybe that's why the it's it's uh the way I feel about it because I watched that a little too young or it hit me a little too hard. But anyway, um so yeah, but so but there's no Spider-Man like Peter Parker's Spider-Man in those movies, right? There is, yeah. So the So they can do that, but Marvel can't just make a Spider-Man without them. See, to me, that's like this deal got a little weird, you know. Yeah, or at the very least, they can't just say, look, we're gonna put it on with the rest of our movies that are in the same universe. I mean, if if why I don't understand why if we can have Doctor Strange in it, why can't Doctor Strange be on Disney Plus? And so then why doesn't this should be a conversation there where it's like the only thing that they got say to is the Spider-Man stuff.

SPEAKER_02 33:38

And uh from my understanding of this current deal, and by the way, these deals aren't public. This is all just what's come out from insiders about it, whether it's written in books or they specifically mentioned it because they've worked on these things. Um Spider-Man, the character, Peter Parker himself, he has specific rules on how he's supposed to be portrayed. He always has to be a white straight male, he always has to be of this certain age range, he always has to have these certain struggles, which to a degree I will say I get it, because one, it's the image of what Sony wants, and two, it's the image of what Stanley created. So I always would back up the original creation of a character, but also there's a point where if you're too rigid with the character, then there's no room for creativity of revitalizing them. But Spider-Man does not need revitalizing, so I'm fine with some of those restrictions.

SPEAKER_01 34:33

Yeah, yeah. Some of that's some of that is uh you gotta let go of what was before. I as long as it's in service of the character. Speaking of John Campbell, he says this best, where you can do anything with that character as long as it doesn't change who that character is. Yes. And and honestly, Spider-Man being white or black doesn't really matter. To me, that's not a thing that changes who Spider-Man is. Now there's certain things that you could do with him, or like why he's Spider-Man. I mean, obviously, I don't want a 60-year-old Spider-Man, right? So it'd be it's nice that Spider-Man is someone that starts out in school because we've always known Spider-Man to be in school, right? So there's certain things that don't yeah, don't mess too big with that. You know, uh yeah, I think that's tough, you know, because I mean Marvel has kind of messed with it already, really. We took Uncle Ben out of the equation completely with the new version of Spider-Man. You know, it's now what color he is and all that stuff. Um I don't know if that matters to me. When I'm watching, uh, there's things that that wouldn't matter. You know, it's obviously we wouldn't make Black Panther, you know, a white guy, you know, because there's not a lot of white guys in condo, you know. So let's we're gonna be realistic here. Black Panther, to him, he it would be in service to the character that he stays black, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 35:57

And in Marvel Comics, they just changed that. Yeah, they're to Chala's, I believe, correct me if wrong, illegitimate son, who's a white guy, has become Black Panther. And I know online why, like what what would be the whole thing? A lot of people were like, Oh, how dare you do that? And I'm like, Well, I just chuckle at that, only because it's like if it was if the roles were switched, I don't think we'd hear that much of an uproar.

SPEAKER_01 36:23

But don't also yeah, honestly, and I'm okay with it too, as long as it makes sense, like is at least it's his illegitimate son, and it's not just a random white guy. Oh, you know, because then it would be weird, right? Yeah, so yeah, I mean, I I I'd have to look more into that and see why they did that.

SPEAKER_02 36:37

Yeah, I don't know too much about it, too. I just remember seeing it pop up and seeing the picture, and I'm like, oh, heads are turning on sure.

SPEAKER_01 36:44

Yeah, and and it's funny because it it sometimes, you know, it all depends on you know, even with our X-Men, man, we have that issue with the X-Men a little bit. I'm worried about what they're gonna do with Xavier and Magneto in the in the MCU. Um, and because to what who they are as their character does mean a lot. I'm not saying they can't be any race or any kind of creed or anything. They can be. Um it but it still has to service the character that as long as Magneto hates mankind for specific reasons and Xavier loves mankind for specific reasons, and we'll probably be all right. But you gotta get there and we gotta believe it, which is why singer using the Holocaust was brilliant. When you haven't done a Magneto, you know what they're gonna use in the future, though I'm concerned. That's a different topic, though, on a different time. For Spider-Man, yeah, this is exciting. Can't wait to watch it.

SPEAKER_02 37:30

Yeah, April 15th, it'll be on Disney Plus. My only question is, is this the theatrical version or is this the re-release, more fun version that they had in theaters where the apparently apparently they had more scenes? Um, I'm I'm actually not expecting that only because the road cut is not on Disney Plus. Come on, Marvel, release the road cut on Disney Plus for your audience. Yeah, don't deprive them of that, anyways.

SPEAKER_01 37:55

I just can't wait to watch this scene with him the green goblin again in this fight. Oh my god. That's such a it's a neat little tricky guy's there, Peter. I love it so much.

SPEAKER_02 38:07

Oh yeah, but anyways, guys, let us know what you think on Spider-Man No Way Home swinging its way on to Disney Plus on April 15th. Finally, the full MCU under one streaming holy platform. And mind you, too, I'll just add one quick note to this um while you're typing in your comments, which I hope you're doing that right now. Um that it no way home was released in theaters in 2021. It is now 2026 by the time it's coming to Disney Plus. So with brand new day being releasing this year in 2026, you're waiting at least until 2030 before this comes on to Disney Plus for the new for the new one. Unless things have changed with the contracts. But so enjoy it while you got it for right now. The full MCU on their one platform.

SPEAKER_00 38:52

Yeah. All right. Exciting.

SPEAKER_02 38:54

Next thing on our list we're going to talk about. This is a last-minute addition to our our podcast, because we found out this morning that some leaked um images. Now, I I say that with a grain of salt because paparazzi easily could come on to sets of movies and shows and start taking pictures, and then official sites could start discrediting it, saying it's AI, all that stuff. But from my understanding, these are pictures taken from people watching the filming and actually getting good, good, high-quality close-ups of these actors. And if I remember right, some of these have the Getty Images label on it, which, if that's true, that is a reputable company out there that takes pictures of celebrities. So we're officially putting it in the Marvel News that they are currently filming Daredevil Born Again season three right now, while season two is still actively being released. They're already filming season three, planning on it for next year to be coming out, and the defenders are on set. Which means this season, we already know Jessica Jones is gonna be in it, but Luke Cage and Iron Fists are officially, in some way, shape, or form, appearing and returning in season three of Worn Again. What are your thoughts like?

SPEAKER_01 40:13

So I have to admit, I haven't seen all of everything that involves Defenders before, all the other things before. So I'm late to the Daredevil party. Um, I started watching the Netflix stuff, and I'm watching that while I'm watching Brand New Day, which is I know might be kind of a oh, how can you do that? I don't know. I've been enjoying Brand New Day without being caught up. Yeah, Born Again. So I'm sorry, not oh I got Spider-Man on the mind, guys. Um yeah, Born Again. I've been enjoying uh Born Again. Um, I don't feel like they made me feel like I had to know too much. I did a little homework, spoiled some stuff for myself, just so I didn't go in completely blind. Um but I think this is exciting. I'll tell you what it what it tells me right away, because I can't really speak on all the other ones in 100% how I feel about them. But it tells me though that they have a plan for Daredevil. If they've already greenlit season three and they're already filming it, and they got these characters coming back, if this rumor is all true and it all plays out to be real, then they have a plan. And any good thing about a TV show is if there's a plan, it's probably a better show than most. Most of the shows I find that aren't good are shows that they don't know what they're gonna do until they're there. And unlike movies, doing that with a TV show is real hard. You know, so if they got a plan, which also makes me think maybe this next season's a final season, which be prepared for, and I kind of hope so, because uh I like things that are good coming to an end. Because it makes what that is precious, and you're not just playing it out further, you know. So yeah, no, it just tells me that whatever they're doing, anything in season two is not it's not gonna feel like okay, they're just gonna keep going a certain direction until they have some sort of answer. It's like, nope, they've got an idea of what they already want to do, and I bet it's real big, you know. It kind of makes me wonder how this season ends to see why they all come in to obviously it's gonna be some big epic showdown, right? But which actually now makes me wonder who the bad guy is gonna be, because it can't just be them versus Fisk, which could be even more interesting. We might have characters showing up that we've never seen before or that we haven't seen in a while, or that that different change of motive, or yeah, it could be fun, you know, it's could be interesting. So that's where I take out of it is oh, thank God they got a plan and not just making because I can be honest with you, when we talk a little today about Daredevil, I kind of felt like you guys are just doing things to do things right now, which is okay because it's a show and they gotta build, but sometimes building feels like at what point is the peak to this tower? And this makes me feel like there is a peak, it just is gonna be next season, or that's gonna be further down the line, which is cool because it makes me feel more on board, yeah, to be honest.

SPEAKER_02 43:06

That's how I feel about it. By the way, if you're hearing a squeak in the background, my dog found her favorite toy, then so we try to keep this as quiet as possible, but also we're not an official studio, this is our living room, so it is what it is, guys. Anyways, uh well, I'll say a couple things about this news. Um, is that if if you're familiar at all with the CW's Aeroverse, where they had like three or four different shows going on congruently, then all of a sudden they'd have a team up um on a couple of the episodes. That's similar to the the mindset of what they had for the Netflix shows for Daredevil, Jessica Jones, Luke Cage, and Iron Fist. Yeah, they introduced all of them, they all had their first season. Some of them, like Daredevil, I believe, had their second seasons at that time, and then they came together as defenders and did like a mini series of like six episodes. I have watched them all, the only ones I was. Say I haven't watched. I haven't finished season two of Iron Fist, but I had started it. And that one, I believe, of all the shows was the poorest rated of the shows. Okay. Um, and Luke Cage, I like Luke Cage, but has his own standalone show. He's not as interesting to me. But Mahershaw Ali is the villain in that first season, and he is really good. I didn't know that. So that that like very, very good. Like they were shocked. This is a Netflix show that you're in a type of thing. But anyways, um, they got that right with him. They just can't get him in the blade, right? Right. Uh, anyways, so I have to still finish season two of Luke Cage and parts of season one of Luke Cage. But I like the character, and he appears a lot in Jessica Jones season one. And he and Jessica's relationship are great because anyone who's a comic fan knows that Jessica Jones and Luke Cage they eventually do get together and have a kid, and that's their marriage, but they haven't shown that in the shows yet. So who knows what these new iterations of them. I wouldn't even say new iterations, but these new um parts of them. I won't, I don't know where they've been. We haven't officially seen Jessica Jones in season two of Born Again, although we know she's in it because she's all throughout the promotion and everything for it. And now we know he's coming back for season three of Daredevil um Born Again. So I'm curious if their relationship actually has blossomed into something, or are they still separate? Are we gonna see that in real time actually happen? Who knows? But, anyways, um but I will say that those are really good shows. The Daredevil shows from the Netflix, they are very good. And um I I liked the the Punisher stuff, I liked um Jessica Jones. I really did like her show. She was uh that was I rewatched the first season of that just to get prepared for her eventual arrival in Born Again, just to reminisce. And I tell you, they that was such a good season. That villain is still one of the best villains Marvel, I think, has ever done in uh Killgrave. So you have they took an obscure character who's called the purple man in the comics and put him into a real world scenario, and they added some very touchy subjects like sexual abuse and consent and rape and all that in it, and uh and it's just brilliantly done. Anyway, so I can't say no good things about season one of Jessica Jones.

SPEAKER_01 46:24

So Yeah, I've seen that. We uh you and I talked about that too at the time, and it definitely was it it went there, you know, it definitely was wasn't afraid to talk about some real nitty gritty things about real life and those characters. I think what's neat about Born Again as well is it almost feels like a soft reboot, you know, of all these people with keeping something that's happened in the past. So say they do show up in this and they have a kid, it's almost like, oh, that couldn't have happened off scream okay with that. You know what I mean? It'd be almost like I and coming from someone that didn't see all the other ones, it'd almost to me be new. But I think to you it's like it'd be kind of like okay, we we can accept the story that we had before and it was something that was real and and we can even acknowledge it in the show. But we can because the character's been introduced now already, it just you can kind of skip some stuff and would you call this a requel? No.

SPEAKER_02 47:17

You still don't know what that means. Incredible Hulk was a requel. Yeah, what does that mean?

SPEAKER_01 47:23

Yeah, anyways, guess it means garbage.

SPEAKER_02 47:28

Guess it means we don't know either. Yes, yes. All right, but um, yeah, so defenders are returning um to a degree.

SPEAKER_01 47:36

And uh is there anything else you wanted to add to it or no other than I'm glad that I'm glad that there is a uh goal, like they have a you know, they have a map put forward for a show because often you see like you know often good shows go bad because there's no plan and and not sure what to do um this year, at least you know, this shows me that they are very much thinking of the future, yep, which means everything we're going to see coming up in the last part of Born Again and starting the next season has been planned. And and to me that makes it more coherent because then even if you like it or don't like it, it's honest and it's what they want it to do. Yeah. And to me, that's that's more important. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 48:19

Well, you got you heard this here, folks, that they are returning to some degree. Yeah. Daredevil Born Again, season three, that's currently filming right now. So you have a good solid year to get caught up on the Netflix shows that are all available on Disney Plus. I recommend you do so. Some of them are really good. I know some of them you might be like, oh, I'm struggling because it's not your cup of tea. But at least watch enough, especially of the Defenders miniseries if you know they're gonna reunite. You get to see what they're like. And I will tell you, Sigourney Reaver is the villain of the Defenders, and she is a kick butt actress. You don't cast Segourney Reaver about having something really good to grow with. Yes. And she does play a great part. Makes me kind of want to go watch them. You gotta you gotta see them. All right, so comment below, let us know below what you think um of the Daredevil Born Again season three images that have apparently been released online. All of my favorite people online are talking about us, so of course we're gonna talk about it too, and we want to hear your two cents on us. So please comment, send us a message, let us know what you think. Yes. All right, now we're gonna move on to the second part of our three-part episode here. And we are gonna talk about Darendel, Born Again, season two, episodes two and three. Both of them dropped this past Tuesday, and I have re-watched them at least twice now to get a good sense of them. And I gotta tell you, I am blown away. Mike, what did you think?

SPEAKER_01 49:45

Yeah, excellent. Uh, I actually had to watch the second episode last night. Spoilers, by the way.

SPEAKER_02 49:52

Just throwing it out there, spoiler warning.

SPEAKER_01 49:54

We are talking about it. I'm gonna bring up things. I tried my best not to, but it's gonna happen. Um, I actually watched the second episode last night. Um, I was able to watch the first one when it first dropped, and then life got busy, and last night I gotta get the second episode in. Man, what an ending, right? Um yeah, I enjoyed a lot. Uh I'm liking the show being as violent as it is, to be honest. And it really feels nitty gritty and down and dirty, you know. Um there's still pacing issues I have. Sometimes I'm kind of like, okay. There's scenes where I'm like, I can draw for the scenes going on, you know. And but other than that, though, I'm really having a good time with it. I wouldn't say it's blown me quite away yet. I want it to really blow me away, but it hasn't quite yet went there. Um last night, the end of the second episode when he blows up that shift to pin it on him, um, which I'm assuming that's what he's gonna do. I mean, I didn't really say he's gonna pin it on him, but it's obvious it's kind of what he wants it to, you know. He wants to make Daredevil look as dangerous as possible. And uh I something I took away from all this is I like that Fisk has gotten smart enough now to he's got people looking for Daredevil because he's dangerous, and now he's got people looking for Mad Murdock because he's a hero. And I think that's real smart. I'm enjoying that part of the show, this cat and mouse they got going on. I'm not buying that they're walking around doing a lot of stuff that they're doing without being seen. But it's a TV show, folks, I'm being as giant as with other than that.

SPEAKER_02 51:34

Yeah, I mean it's yeah, but also from my understanding, the Fisk has set martial law in the city. Yes, yeah. So if for I don't know what those rules will apply in America when it happens, because America, thank God, has not had we have those provisions, I think, if something should ever happen, but I don't think that it's ever happened in the history of America been in martial law. Historians correct me if I'm wrong, and I love to learn more about our history, so please tell me. But I don't think New York City, especially, has ever been tempted to use martial law before.

SPEAKER_01 52:07

So we we have had martial law before in certain parts of the country, but I don't think in New York City, though, for sure. I know they declared martial law when they were um mixing the schools black and white back in the day. Down south, there were some schools that wouldn't do it when it did. Uh uh trying to think of the name of the famous one that's for some reason I'm blinking, and I shouldn't, and I apologize for people because I do know my history and I understand it. But yes, there were a lot of schools that would not integrate. And so the president literally had the national guard go in and make them do it. Um and and that was declared at the time a martial law situation. Um but I don't know if it followed all the rules of what martial law would be.

SPEAKER_02 52:51

That's what I'm wondering. Because if if the president would be able to send the National Guard to enforce something like that, but yeah, for immigration standards or something like that, they send a National Guard, wouldn't that be considered martial law too, or is that not the same?

SPEAKER_01 53:04

I think it's different if you're not if it's on your citizens compared to not. Okay. Because makes sense. Despite your politics, or and I'm not here to argue what's right or wrong or what this is not that show for that. Um, but I do know that if you're technically not a citizen and there's things going on like that, that I think it does fall under a different category.

unknown 53:24

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 53:25

I might not I might be wrong. If I am, let me know, guys, nicely, because I'm not trying to I'm not gonna get into that stuff. This isn't a political podcast. But that's a good question, though, because it's it's I got a lot to do with it. But I do think it is but as freely as he uses it in the show, it's not happened like that before. And I don't think he can do that either, to be honest. Well, uh you know never heard of a mayor being able to enact martial law. Yeah, I think that's a I think that's the higher it's it's fine for the show. I think there's things that he can initiate. Maybe there is a a martial law kind of situation he could put the city in. But when you're talking at like the legitimate what martial law means to like to the country and stuff, I think that's something that's gonna be done governatorial. Well, that's and even then with backing of the of the federal government too.

SPEAKER_02 54:13

Well, I think I like that you brought that up too, because that by the way, like he said, this is a TV show. So, of course, what do TV shows do? They take an exaggeration of something that's either actually happening or something that could happen, and they explore it and see what it looked like in this landscape type thing. Because after the first episode of They're Double Born Again, I thought that red hook place is a free port. And I kept, I looked up online. I Googled, because as you would, what does a free port mean? And it means it's not governed by the government, so anything could go in and out of there. And then I thought, is this actually something that's happening in New York City? Like, is this a legit thing? There is no free port in New York City, but for the purposes of Daredevil Born Again, it is a free port. And it's playing into the whole plot of Mayor Fist being corrupt and how he's getting away with it type time. I'm cool with that. Yeah, no, there are free ports in the world, which is quite interesting, but I don't think there's any in America.

SPEAKER_01 55:09

It's usually in the definitely not in New York. Um if there if it is somewhere. I mean, I'm not sure where it would be, but I don't think any more either. Maybe back, you you go back 30 years, 40, 50 years, maybe there was some, you know, but definitely not in New York. New York, you can't carry a knife around New York. I mean, it's like I mean people do break the law, but they're pretty tight there for a long time.

SPEAKER_02 55:30

They they would there's no way they would have a charter like this where any cargo ship that comes in, no matter what it's carrying, is not going to be looked at. Like that we have those customs and type of border control type thing proposals for all that stuff.

SPEAKER_01 55:45

Now, whether they all get looked at is different, but I think they all would be would have succumbed to it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 55:52

Yeah. Yeah. So and what I took away from the very ending of season or I'm sorry, episode three that we watched, not only did the does it look like, and we'll find out in the next episode if that's what the Kingpin's plans are, Mayor Kingpin, Mayor Fisk, is that he's gonna blame that on Daredevil because I I could see him doing that. But also, for the lawyer perspective, that's all their evidence, right? He was doing something bad. And so what happens when you destroy evidence, you lose your case. And that's what they're trying to build with his um his colleague there, uh Kristen, the lawyer.

SPEAKER_01 56:28

And so uh That's what I liked about this cat mouse up it where they're smart enough because the guy mentions to him why don't you just out him as Daredevil? He was you don't understand that that's that's not that simple. Yeah. You know, you can't make that kind of a blind hero, a villain. You know, first of all, you can't, that's hard to sell. And second of all, it's not just about outing him and like stopping him, it's about not getting in trouble, too.

SPEAKER_02 56:52

And I think one thing about Fisk that we need to understand too is he he is a brute and he is a kingpin, that's why they give him the nickname. But um he does give respect to people he feels need to be respected. And so whether he doesn't like Daredevil or whatever he thinks of Matt Murdock before, Matt Murdoch publicly took a bullet for him. So it's gonna be interesting. It's funny when they asked him, and I'm trying to remember how they said it, phrased it in the episode, whether we bring Daredevil's head in on a silver platform or they bring in a live Matt Murdoch, he's coming into this office. He was fine with either way because he doesn't want the vigilantes. But I feel like he has some ounce of respect for for Matt Murdoch and knowing he saved.

SPEAKER_01 57:41

Yeah, there was a moment when he said that too. He said he saved my life, and then he said it again. And it was almost like in his own mind, it was like, he saved my life. Yeah. Which is like whether he was thinking values that more than someone saying they're going to be loyal. Because even later on, when he says, Who are you, you know, who are you trying to protect? And the guy looks at him and says, You. And he puts his hand on, so it's his good answer. Because even then he was still kind of like, you know, yeah, you're gonna say that because you know what I can do to you. But if you literally put your life on a line for him, like that Murdoch did, I think that's different for him.

SPEAKER_02 58:19

That's from a form of loyalty right there. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 58:22

Ice. Well, yeah, well, in his mind, he'd be dead, you know, and it'd be then so it's kind of like I like bad guys that see that, you know. That's kind of why I like tombs from the first uh uh homecoming. Because he, you know, he turned to Peter in that car. He says, Look, I'm willing to completely forget all this because you saved my daughter's life in Washington with that elevator incident. Like right then and there was Spider-Man's out. He could be like okay, this is over with, that's good. You know, and then and he would have. I believed him. I think he wouldn't have gone after him. I think he would have just dropped it right there. I think he was very glad that he saved his daughter's life, and you know, and that's how it went. I feel I feel like Fisk could have that side of him. But then there's times where I struggle with liking Fisk because I also think he would have liked that trainer that he had in the beginning of the beginning of season of episode two.

SPEAKER_02 59:10

I was cringing the whole time.

SPEAKER_01 59:12

And then he freaked out on us and I punched him. Uh and I'm like, but don't you like this guy? This guy is like pushing you to your like you want him to push you like that. I I thought he'd have respect for that guy too.

SPEAKER_02 59:23

You know, see, I would have thought I thought differently for that because Fisk already knows how to beat somebody up. So the fact that he's trained, I think the whole fact that his office got him a trainer to practice and make him look good when he does this eventual fight that it's advertising there on the show. I think he only went along with it because, oh, this is politics type thing. I need to do it. That could be true too. And he uh every time he kept saying, Well, you're a wimp, or he was saying things like, We don't take that long time off. I can't believe you do this. I'm thinking in my head, you're gonna die. He's not gonna take this. And he did. We felt the opposite.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:02

We felt the opposite. I thought he was there as a problem. I thought he was gonna, I thought he was gonna like be happy the guy was acting that way. Oh give the other guy crap. I thought he was acting that way. I don't know why. You know, it's yeah, isn't that funny? How see, and that's what I mean. I think that's why I struggle with, and I'm maybe that's a good thing though, folks. And then I'll tell this right now. It does make him very unpredictable. Because if I felt like he was gonna not do that, I was surprised he did. When you were kind of like, oh yeah, that's coming. I was expecting it so it almost makes me think they're doing this right in a lot of ways, you know. I there's something about Fisk. I want to see a side of him I like and I don't. And that that's the problem. When I say like, I still like what they're doing. When I when I say like, I don't mean I don't like because he's doing the character. I think he's great and he's awesome. When I say like, I want to see something where I feel for this guy, and I don't. I just can't wait to see him get what he has coming to me. Yeah. But I kind of wish there was a little more of that. That's I would that's why I like that he saved my life and the way he said it made me kind of go, ooh, that's cool. Because maybe there's going to be a scenario down the line where he's gonna have the upper hand and Daredevil's over. Yeah, and he doesn't do something that we think he's going to do.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:14

I'd love for that to happen. What a great moment that would be that he changes his mind, or or at least in that moment struggles to do what he's supposed to do, which is what ultimately makes him have his downfall. I think that would be great. Because his wife, on the other hand, whole different story. I don't know. I feel hot take. I think if she wasn't around, he'd be a little calmer of a guy. She's cutthroat, the wife.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:38

She is a lot more vicious. I would say uh so it's funny that when you think about it, she's more vicious in her mentality. Where I think he still has this because the trauma he's been through as a kid with having to kill his dad to protect his mom. I think that uh he is a little unhinged in his brain. He's got, I don't know how do I say this properly, because I don't want to say it wrong and either people be offended by it or anything, but he's got a little bit a little touch of something in him that is like he wants things a certain way, and when he likes something, he goes right for it, and he has the brute strength that he could do it. She's more conniving in the brain, or she will order your family dead and go to sleep.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:24

Yes. He'll do it and sit there and wait for the word drinking to scotch. Yes. See, I see him as a mob guy. Yeah. Because he's a bad guy that wants power, that wants to be number one.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:34

He's very meticulous and like uh anal about how things are done.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:38

But ultimately, I see him having a set code of honor in his head. He is justifying to himself always why he's doing what he's doing. Yeah. And he's always gonna be right, whether we see it as bad or good. She would just watch it burn. Really, and that's which I like about her, but I don't know if he'd be the way he is.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:59

That's why she was drawn to him as he was drawn to him. Because he'll get it done. Yeah, yeah. Because yeah, because she likes that type of power. I totally get it. But also, you saw in the first season of Born Again when they had their little struggle back and forth as husband and wife, that when he was gone, she missed it. But at the same time, did she miss him when it came to she's now in charge? And many of their agents were saying it was a lot better under her control because she was strict, she was nasty, she was cutthroat, she was what you expect of King Kingpin to be. But also, it's funny, they're kind of two sides of the same evil coin.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:35

Yeah, they remind me of like the comic book version of like what uh the couple was in in House of Cards.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:42

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:43

Mm-hmm. Where he very good uh example. Yeah, where he gets it done because he's the face and he's gonna get it done. But ultimately, really, she could be nasty. Yeah. And she pushes him to be nastier, you know? Yes. So she can get stuff done on her own, but she doesn't have that she doesn't have that diplomacy in her to to know when to, how to, and set it up. That's why she needs him, you know. Oh, there's not love there. It's there is there is, but in their way. Yeah. Which is not like what we consider love. Yeah. It's a there's more of an admiration. Oh, yeah, there's admiration. There's a we we survive this together, yeah, and we do it our way. There's another show that's out with Tom Hardy in it. Um, I forget the name, but it's the same way. His his boss and his boss's wife are the same in that. She's trying to get people killed that he likes. And it's like, and they go back and forth a lot, but like ultimately they need each other to be what they are. Mob Land, great show. Watch it, awesome guys. Um, it's the same thing. And but yeah, no, Fisk is definitely I get that from them. This is in Daredevil's a little more milder, but but sometimes I do wonder what they'd be on their own, you know, more so on their own, like how he'd be. And I'd like to see a little more of that from them. Um, yeah, because that would make that very, very fun for those characters. Yeah. You know, but for episode one was good. Yeah. Um I'm trying to remember because because I watched them so close together, guys, it was almost like one big movie. So I'm trying to remember right where it ended.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:09

And I think they did that on purpose when they released the movie.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:12

Yeah, because it went well, because I honestly, if it was just the episode two and not episode two and three, it would have been kind of like, oh, this was didn't really go anywhere. Yep. Episode two is a great filler to a really good climactic episode. And you needed two to watch three, but at the same time. Right. Yeah, it was a good choice to do what they taught. Oh, yeah. Yeah, because it, you know, honestly, if you think about it, if you would have got episode one and two first, it wouldn't have ended at such a high. Yep. It'd be like, oh, cool, there's an ending. What's next? But now we got two and three, and it ends on that explosion. That's a yeah, and you can almost anticipating seeing it. Because now I'm excited for the next one to come out, which is I wasn't so much at first. Now I am. Like, oh no, I can't wait to see what that's gonna be.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:52

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:53

And I noticed in both episodes we get no Mr. Charles. I noticed that too.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:57

I wanted to ask you did he appear and I didn't see Him at all. I didn't see him at all. So when is he gonna come back? What's he gonna do when he comes back? Like when does he need to intervene? Finally meet the governor who looks like Happy Hogo, by the way. Um just say it. Um, and you finally get to see that dynamic and seeing that struggle, uh, that power struggle for um Kingpin, realizing he's got someone who could step in in all of his way, and it does mirror real life so well when we currently have something where our current mayor of New York City wants to do stuff, and our current governor in New York is like, you can't deal without my backing. And you see that real life power struggle, then you watch it on a Marvel show, and you're like, Oh, that makes so much sense. I just love it when real life kind of plays out a little bit similar to these shows because it really shows that they're trying to make this as authentic as possible. Absolutely. Yeah, and that's what we loved about Iron Man One, is what we loved about the MCUs. They're trying to introduce these characters, like, well, if these people actually were here, right? This is how we do it, right? So I love that. And I I love when uh Vanessa Fisk looks over uh to someone and she says, or looks over to Wilson and she says, She interrupted you because she fears you. And I'm like, Oh, yes, yes, that is so yes, that is so true. That is so true. Yeah, yeah. But at the same time, you kind of need her, and she kind of needs you, and it's this is this interesting internal politics they got going on there, which I'm curious to see how that's gonna play out. Yeah, I agree.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:26

I agree. I do know though, I don't know if we knew this already, but I did finally realize that Mr. Charles is CIA. I was when I was when I got done watching episode two last night, I didn't turn the channel right away, and it went into the podcast of Vincent and the guy who watched and the guy who plays uh what's Charlie Cox. And they were talking, and he they say it right outright that he's CIA. He's a CIA counterpart. And I'm like, oh wow, it's a way to tell us it's good. Well, it makes sense. So it's pretty it comes right out of Vincent D'Anafro's mouth that he's this this guy's the CIA.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:00

That makes sense if he had a uh Valentina Allegra de Fontaine on the phone, she is the CIA director. Yeah, so of course that makes sense he's one of her operatives, which we already put those two together, they were working together in some capacity. So that's cool at least. Um but anyways, yeah. So uh what I'm just gonna do some quick highlights from each yeah, just some highlights for sure. Yeah, yeah. So we already talked about Vanessa Fisk. I I do like her portrayal. Uh I'm glad they kept with the same casting because in the very beginning of Born Again, they had recast with her, and I thought, oh, why you're doing that? And then they got smart and they said, just bring back the original actress because she's phenomenal, and I love her done. Somehow backed up the track of money. Yeah, yeah. Just something happened where God intervened. Anyways, um, Dr. Heather Glenn, I did not like her too much in the first season. She was a little more whiny, but I will say her character development in season two, and you see how much that trauma in season one plagued her. She is turning out to be uh kind of like a a dark horse character in this show. Or you're you're like, wow. I actually I'm appreciating her more if if I what to say it like that. So I agree. Um, I like her. Buck Cashman. I didn't know that that was his name at first, but it's the the guy who's that has the English accent that's kind of taken over as um fist henchman from the original Daredevil show that died in season one. Um so it it's uh he's definitely starting to fill those shoes, you can tell.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:37

Um I I struggle finding him uh scary. I find him intimidating. I don't know. Yeah, see, I don't yet. I need to see him do something that makes you go, oh, this guy needs it. Because right now he's just a lot of talk. And it's like, okay, throwing your English accent around, signing it all tough. Of course, anyone who's has an English accent, you already sound 10 times smarter than you probably are. So it's like when you I want to see, I want, I want to understand when he says, come to me first, like why should I have to? Because you're talking about Fisk. Yeah. It's like what makes you just as scary where I need to do what you say as well, you know? And I and I I struggle with him. I don't know if it's the actor, I don't know if it's maybe it's just and maybe it's just build up and we're just not there yet. But I'm fingers crossed he gets better because sometimes he says something, I'm just kind of like, come out, punk bitch. And then when I say so how I feel about him. So it's kind of tough.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:30

Uh Daniel Blake, he is the deputy communications director, I believe, of um of the Fisk uh administration there. Um you I liked him in season one. And in season two, I thought, okay, where are you going with this? And I see he's in a relationship with with BB, and she's probab she's turned into this propaganda machine for the fist stuff. He's got it figured out now. He does. And I what I like about him is that he is loyal, but loyal to a T. You could you could tell he's gonna come face to face of either is am I supposed to do the right thing or am I supposed to bow down to the kingpin? Because he admires the kingpin genuinely. So that he's got he's an interesting character. He's not long for this world without having to pick a choice, without having to pick a side soon. Yes, that's for sure. So and that is very apparent in this episode. Yeah. The swordsman. Now, the swordsman, I forgot his original name is John or something. I'm not sure. Forgive me. But um, he first made his MCU appearance in uh Hawkeye season one. That's right. He was good, but he was more of like the comic relief to a degree type thing and all that stuff. This one, he is elevated and he is good. And I like his acting and his character. He's when he's given a good script like this, given in Born Again, he is doing it phenomenally well.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:52

Yeah, his role in this so far is my favorite. His act, that guy is just tearing the screen up. It's so oh when they're in court and she apologizes to him and he's just like, Don't worry about it. Like it, but the way he plays it and the stuff that he says and how he's doing it, you're just like, Oh man, this guy is killing this guy. I want to see him in more stuff. He's excellent.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:13

Yeah, I think he was originally just intended to be just one of these side characters type thing, but he uh it's it's just like when you introduce someone and the fans love him so much that you have no choice but to bring him more to the forefront. He is one of those characters that is he's so good. So good. Um, and then I'll mention um well, since we're on uh Swordsman real quick, I will say that whole court scene. I I love court dramas and stuff like that. I've watched The Good Wife, I've watched Scandal, I've watched some of these, well, not Scandal, How to Get Away with Murder, you know, things like that. Um that I just I love seeing the those type of shows, how they play out. And I just I know a lot of them are embellished because it's it's entertainment, they're supposed to be. Yeah, but that's kind of like one of my genres I like to eat up a little bit. Um, to see how the anti-vigilante task force or whatever the law was that Fisk put in place um that approved of that and then enforced how these criminal trials are supposed to be held. And with the three judges type thing, uh I was mesmerized by watching how seeing how the judges were thinking, what they were gonna say, and everyone's on the edge of their seats, like Fisk trying to see what the outcome is this gonna be. Is this gonna work the way I want it to work? And of course, probably the judges are bribed or bought and paid for or something, and they always refer back to, well, this law says we have to do this. Like they were very clear that they are only able to do their ruling and this whole thing because of the law and how they've been able to do things is because of the law. Even when the lawyer is like, I haven't had a fair chance to speak with him because of the law. So it's it just shows you when a bad law gets put in place, yeah, the system you could call the system corrupt, but the system is supposed to react to whatever those walls are on the books, whether you like them or not, whether they're good or not. And this is a great example of it. And that was riveting to watch that whole scene.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:08

Yeah, it's it speaks to me that they're definitely corrupt because even though the law is written the way it is, the position you're put in as a judge is to choose how to enforce that law. I mean, there are parameters they do have to stick with, and there's things they can and can't do, but they could have definitely said, you know what, he could have more time. They could have ordered that she has more time to talk to him. That there's things they could have done. It it really spoke to the idea that like maybe now we know because of the leaks that it's they're gonna have to grapple with the fact that the system isn't how it's gonna get fixed. The way that Matt keeps pushing, the system's there, it's kind of broken, but the things that aren't are gonna work. I think there's gonna be a point where he's gonna realize that's not the case anymore, and it's gonna have to be the vigilantes like him that step up. He's gonna start realizing that Frank's way without going to killing people might be the right way, which has been which was also kind of brought up again in these episodes.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:08

Well, that's kind of like a con theme of Daredevil where he's always saying the law is on their side, but at the same time, it's not being that push from the daredevil parts of things. And so yeah, I I you you could tell how and I agree how our system actually does work is a lot of judges have like um I I want to say this correctly, judicial discretion in their world, right? They're supposed to interpret what the law is, and they're also supposed to say if something sounds too egregious that doesn't think that either coincides with the law or what the constitutions, uh whether it's New York State constitution or whatever they got going on that they're presiding over, whether that is good with it. That's how our system does work. You start lower, you if it doesn't go your way, you appeal, you go higher, you go higher till you get to something. And for all we know, we might get to something like that. We might get to just this one case that doesn't go the way of Wilson Fisk, and they're gonna try appealing, and you're gonna see he's gonna get to powers even above the governor. Yeah. Like the Valentina Allegra Defontaine, and you're gonna wonder, how is this gonna work out? So we don't know what they're gonna do with this, but I love seeing how they're they're trying to put, like I said earlier, this real world aspect to things and seeing how that's gonna play out in the show like this is just very riveting for me to see.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:27

Yeah, because he Fisk has got that on his side already. We know that. If if Mr. Charles is with the CIA and he knows what he's doing, you know, then he's telling his boss what he's doing and they're okay with this. Yeah. So I him winning that case and stuff, me. I think part of him was like wondering, you know, are am I gonna get backstabbed by the people I've been trusting? But the other part of it was like, clearly you're gonna win this. You know, it's like there's no there's no doubt.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:53

Like, yeah, you already cut it. Like I'd be fearful if he didn't win this. Yeah. As also I'm fearful if they did, you know, it's like even the heart of his lawyer, the swordsman lawyer, was like not before they even start talking about the end of it.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:08

She's like, No, no, we're not gonna win this, and it's over.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:10

And I'll say, just to piggyback off of that, that was the next highlight I want to say. I was not too much a fan of this Kristen Kirsten, I think it's Chris Kristen uh character from season one. I get why she was there, I get the whole point, but she to me, she just felt like a side character that didn't really have too much of anything going on with them. But I could tell that this the writing that they're doing and the characters they already have in place, or they're just now in season two, expanding upon them and showing how the connective tissue of everything. I like her in this season. Yeah. A lot more so. And I actually look forward to seeing how she's gonna be kind of like the face of the Murdoch law firm type thing of seeing what's what's gonna happen there. And it it sets up perfectly. Matthew Murdoch is missing, and Mayor Fisk is like, let's find Matthew Murdoch. So um you have Kirsten now taking over as the face of the law firm. So now we get to see her step up and see how she's gonna be. And so far, she is not disappointed.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:12

Very good. Yeah, very good. I liked her interaction with Daredevil, the bar, this that one she was it made her character. You realize, okay, this someone is being pushed to the limit. Yep.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:22

So she's yeah, it's just gonna be integral to their law part of things, which is cool. Anyways, uh, I'll end with my highlight with saying this Netflix show is back on Disney Plus, where a lot of people were worried when they announced their double born again that are they're gonna do as good as they did on Netflix because Netflix seemed to have more free will, Disney's a little more two kid friendly and all that. Disney is showing a new side of them with this merger from Fox and with some of their entertainment they're trying to put forth and they're broadening their scopes. That we finally get to see a Daredevil that's just like on par with a Netflix Daredevil that fans who think, oh, it's Disnified, it's not Disnified.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:03

It is Yeah, I don't uh they're swearing in yours, right? When you watch it, like there's it's like I don't this this I'm very surprised. It's um yeah. This is Yeah, I find them very surprised like what they're doing. I mean, oh wow, they're really having fun with this and doing the thing.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:19

Yeah. This is the first time I felt like that the real Daredevil show that I liked from Netflix is back. And that makes me excited to see now that they're continuing it and even filming another season already. Yeah, excited. They know they got something good on their hands and they're not gonna let it go. I'm happy for that. So, anyways, anything you want to say to wrap up the section?

SPEAKER_01 1:19:37

No, just for a funny final thought, isn't this is just a weird part of me because it's TV shows versus the movies. So, where the hell is Spider-Man? But other than that, I'm good, you know. Contracts, contracts, yeah, and and and you know, we're not gonna talk about this in the Spider-Man movie, by the way. You remember when we were under martial law? But it's okay. We're gonna maybe that'll happen. Who knows? We gotta get Frank, we gotta know where Frank is soon there because we know Frank comes back because he's in the next movie, guys.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:08

Well, we know the timeline connect, we know the timeline of this whole thing, and uh it's probably just Do we know the timeline? Well, from what we actually know of like the structure of what they're doing, they're doing season two, born again. You have your Frank Castle, Punisher Special, and then you get Spider-Man brand new day. So we're gonna see by the end of all that stuff. So Frank comes back, guys. Maybe partial law is gonna be lifted so we can have a kick butt Spider-Man movie. Maybe he's doing all this in the midst of this anti-vigilante.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:40

Makes me think that when Spider-Man happens, he's gonna physically be sitting in his office watching Spider-Man beat up all these bad guys that randomly show up. He's gonna be like, oh, because vigilantes aren't so bad.

unknown 1:20:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:52

But we'll get there, guys. We'll figure it out. We're gonna we're gonna see. Marvel's gotta get their crap together when it comes down to these because I love this show, but uh in the long run, I I still am taking this as it's not part of the MCU, you know. And I but I kind of know it is, but I kind of take it like it's not because Yeah. You know, when you do big things, it's like gotta be careful. I don't know. It's the continuity thing that we have, this issue between what's show, what's movie, what's not, what is.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:22

Yeah. I think we're gonna get there, and I think Marvel is learning their lesson on it. It sounds like that's why they're gonna cut back on the number of shows or the ones they do. They're making it where it's not a must-watch for the movies, because I think they finally realize that. And I honestly, my personal point of view is I think Kevin Fange did realize that a long time ago, but he was pushed by higher powers to do stuff. They wanted more content.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:50

Yeah, I agree. I think there's a lot of problems behind the scenes that cause that. He's probably happy. But right now, though, there's no excuse. And when I see this group of uh the anti-vigil vigilante guys out there, I mean, if we don't see them at all in any of the Spider-Man stuff where it's brought up or any kind of to me, that's where the lacking is. It's the bigger scope of things that you can't ignore. Yeah. It's the little all the political things and stuff that's going on. I can see not being in Spider-Man, and I'm not bringing it up. But you're talking this is a citywide thing going on here. That's right. There are those are the things that make me go, huh.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:25

And why isn't this talking about it's not any city. This is New York City. This is where the Avengers first got flung. Like this is New York City has been through hell. Right. Right. Throughout the MCU, like we said in the last episode.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:37

You know, in the same New York City, the same rule that I'm talking about applies to the movies. Yeah. Because even in Thunderbolts, I kind of thought, huh. The void and new and doing his thing, where Spider Man. You know, it's like, it just makes me think, where are the people that would have been there? You know, so I don't know. I just sometimes I think, if you're gonna ask for help, don't you think they're a double big man? Let's ask that Spider-Man guy. He knows a bunch of Avengers. You know, it's like it's not just, it's not just that Spider-Man would be awesome to get to help, but it'd also be that he knows heroes that are part of bigger things. If you're gonna get pushed to the point where people are dying and you're in martial law and we're hiding out in the streets and all that, you're not thinking maybe freaking the Avengers can give me a hand with this guy because this dude's out of control. Yeah. At what point are you not turning to guys that are clearly good guys on a national worldwide stage? You know, especially if you're gonna start including people like what's her face, or I can't remember her name, um, Julian Dreyfus's character.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:39

Yeah, balancing that electricity.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:40

Yeah, if she's gonna even get brought up, that means there's people in this rule, Ben. Yeah, yeah. I do agree. That's where I struggle with these shows. And that's just me being a pet peeve. I can watch this without that and enjoy it. Yeah, and I can watch Spider-Man without this and enjoy it too. But when you mesh them, that's when I'm kind of like, so what were we supposed to be? I and all it needs to be is them coming out saying, by the way, guys, Daredevil Born Again is not in continuity with the MCU. Yeah. Even though we're gonna use characters from the MCU. I'm good. Just be clear about it.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:15

Yeah, that's the only problem that I think I'm gonna find with the shows. When they do something as big as this in a city like this that has a character that you have a rights issue already, what you can and can't do with, how are you gonna explain it away, not only in that character's next appearance, but in the show itself? And I'm hoping if Marvel is smart, they filmed the scene already, Inspire Man No Way Home, or Brand New Day, the new one that's out. Um that explains that he wasn't in New York City. Something we don't know what. MIT is not in New York City, so maybe he was doing something over there where um MJ and Ned are. We don't we don't know. But what we do know is that that is gonna become an issue in the future. If they're gonna do something as big and as um ambitious as they're doing in Born Again, how are they gonna do it and try to not touch upon it in the show?

SPEAKER_01 1:25:10

Well, because here's a good here's a quick little question, just for just for fun sakes. You know, let's say in Spider-Man Brand New Day, him and Frank are having this moral argument like he has with Daredevil a lot. And not one point Frank's gonna bring up, don't you see what they've been doing? Like, because that would be a good point that Frank would right now. Frank's theory and philosophy on life sounds pretty darn good with what's happening. Yeah. You know? So Frank's argument to even Peter Parker would be we were under martial law because of these guys. People were dying, people were getting thrown away in jail, they were getting unjustly prosecuted. Like if you're telling me to be nice, yeah. You know, if that's not going to be an argument with them, and that's not gonna get brought, even just that, even if that's the only way it does get brought in, that'd be fine. But to think you're not, if that's gonna be left out of his complete argument because we don't want to mesh the two together too much and confuse you, you're already confusing us by putting them there in the first place. No one came out and explicitly told me that you need to watch Ms. Marvel in order to watch the Marvels. So when I watch the Marvels, I'm like, who in the hell is this? What's going on here? You know, because I did not like the Ms. Marvel show and I only watched it because I am, like my brother, into the Marvel stuff. But you take your average watcher, they're not gonna watch that Ms. Marvel show. It's not made for a 40-year-old man to sit and watch that as a kid's show.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:34

Your average moviegoer that doesn't usually watch TV shows in the scene because it's a Marvel movie that's come out.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:41

But a Marvel movie is made for everybody. It's supposed to, yes. And it's in the Marvel universe that's gonna have something to do with what's going to happen later. And when I walked into it and I watched it and not watching Ms. Marvel, I'm like, oh man, I was behind because I didn't watch the TV show. Yeah. That sucks, guys. Yeah. Either do it or don't. Do it or don't. It's are they part of it or are they not? Yeah. That movie. If they are, we'll get on board. If they're not, then at least we know what we're watching now.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:07

That movie was such a disappointment for me. For that reason. I thought that would go nowhere above up after the first movie again. They they decided let's figure out a way to go to a new movie.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:16

It was a crappier season two of Ms. Marvel, is what it was.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:19

Yeah, actually. Oh, fortunately. I agree. I agree with that sentiment. All right, guys. Let us know what you think of Daredevil Born Again, season two, episodes two and three. We clearly are very passionate about the show. We are passionate about the MCU, and we love these episodes. We absolutely love these episodes. There are still big questions that are yet to be answered, but we have enough faith that they're gonna at least touch upon it sometime soon. Let us know your theories, let us know your views. What did you think? What were your highlights of these two episodes? And be sure to like and subscribe to our podcast here if you haven't yet, because we are talking about these episodes every week when they come out.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:58

Yep. Yeah, and please don't give me Wrong when I complain about the continuity issue with Marvel and that because this is a great show, and you all should be watching it. So yeah, yeah, it is a great show. Definitely watch it.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:09

All right. Now we are moving on to our main event. All right. We have been looking forward to this. We have for different reasons. It is, yeah. We're finding out actually. I think a a general sentiment, though, that we're going to start off with before we get started is it's good to finally watch a movie, unlike the last movie that we watched, where we give it more favorite readings. Best way to say it. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:40

This is more of a pleasure than than it was a problem.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:43

All right. How do we want to start this off then? Do you want me to start off with the history behind the project type thing?

SPEAKER_01 1:28:48

Yeah, why don't you go ahead and do the history and then I'll start with our first uh act.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:52

All right. And by the way, spoiler warning yet again, but this is Iron Man 2 that came out in 2010. If you haven't watched it yet, you wouldn't decades short now. So almost. So, anyways, um, please watch it and let us know what you thought about this whole thing at any point in the comments below. All right, so we are reviewing Iron Man 2. Release date was May 7, 2017. Here's a little history behind the project. After the surprising success of the first Iron Man film, it didn't take long for Marvel Studios to green light and fast track the sequel. In fact, Marvel Studios locked in a spring 2010 release date, giving the sequel only months to film and finalize production, a process that became the driving force behind the whole film. Iron Man 2 was made under more pressure than the first film with its deadline fast approaching. Marvel suddenly had a hit. They wanted to build the MCU fast and had actors pay dis uh sorry, they had actors paid disputes, a rush script process, and too many story obligations for the sequel. And the sequel had uh to be both a Tony Stark movie and a commercial, essentially, for the Avengers at the same time. Honestly, you can feel that in the final film. The first Iron Man changed everything overnight. When Iron Man hit in 2008, it wasn't just successful, it redefined Marvel's future. Before that, Marvel was still proving it could self-produce movies. There wasn't yet a fully lopped-in MCU formula, and Iron Man was kind of a gamble built around Robert Downey Jr., John Favreau's loose directing style, and a lot of improvision. But then it blew up. So Marvel immediately went to we need a sequel and we need it fast. A major behind-the-scenes shift came when the studio's transition in uh was with the studio's transition and distribution. While the film was still released through Paramount Pictures, by this time the Walt Disney company had acquired Marvel in 2009 specifically. Though Paramount still handled distribution for Iron Man 2 under pre-existing arc agreements, internally, uh Marvel was not more was now more confident, but also under more pressure to deliver a sequel than could expand the universe. And by the way, a little correction here. They locked in a spring 2010 release date. The first film was in 2008, so they had more than just months to do this, but still it was very short compared to what you traditionally would have. Excuse me, four sequel. Anyways, um, let's see. Though Marvel still handled distribution for Iron Man 2 under pre-existing agreements, internally, Marvel was now more confident, but also under pressure to deliver a sequel that could expand the universe. The returning cast reflected on how it changed, how much has changed since 2008. Robert Downing Jr. was no longer a risky hire. He had become one of Hollywood's biggest stars almost overnight and had significant creative influence on the film's tone and dialogue. Gwen F. Pelcho returned as Pepper Potts with an expanded role, while Don Cheadle replaced Terrence Howard as James Rhodes due to what is described as uh contract and salary disputes, although those uh there are rumors surrounding that whole thing that we are not exactly sure what happened, making this one of the MCU's first major recasts. New additions to the cast signaled Marvel's growing ambitions. Mickey Roque, Rourke, Rorick, Rorick, I want to get that right. Mickey Rourke joined as Ivan Van Gogh slash whiplash, bringing a gritty, unconventional villain presence while in the midst of his own career resurgence after The Wrestler. Sam Rockwell was cast as Justin Hammer, offering a more comedic, cooperative, rival counterpart of Tony Stark. Perhaps most notably was Scarlett Johansson debuting as Natasha Romanoff, aka The Black Widow, making the first major expansion of the Avengers roster on screen and signaling Marvel's long-term crossover plans. Director John Favreau returned, but the process was more constrained this time. Unlike the improvisional freedom of the first film, Iron Man 2 had to juggle sequel expectations, studio deadlines, and universe building requirements, including setting up future films like Thor in Captain America. The script again evolved during production, with Downey Jr. contributing heavily to the dialogue, but there was less flexibility due to the time constraints. Fun facts from production highlight both the scale and pressure of the sequel. The film leaned even more into practical effects in the first film for the suits, and stark expo sequences. Scarlett Johansson underwent increased physical training for her role, helping redefine action roles for female characters in the genre. And early versions of the story reportedly focused more heavily on Tony's alcoholism from the Demon in the Bottle storyline in the comics. Though that was toned down for a more broader appeal and also for a personal reason due to Robert Downing Jr.'s personal history. Balancing characters, storyline, and the growing demands of a shared cinematic universe. Though you can feel how rushed the film was when you watched it, that didn't diminish the general public perception of the film overall, given the box office revenue. Now let's break down the numbers. RMN2 had a production budget of approximately $200 million, which was an increase from the first film. The global box office was between $623 and $624 million worldwide. Wow. Making this another successful hit under Marvel's tool belt so early on. The breakdown in domestically in the US and Canada, North America specifically, $312 of that revenue was generated from there. While internationally, $311 million. Another um thing that we don't see too much of nowadays is domestic revenue being so high compared to the international compared to Iron Man 1 in 2008, the sequel had a significantly larger budget, earned more overall at the box office, and proved that Iron Man was not a one-hit wonder as people would have written it off to be. Even though its reception was more mixed than the first film, it still had a strong financial success, and that helped solidify the early momentum of the MCU. The legacy of Iron Man 2 is bigger than the movie itself. The movie is kind of a blueprint for a problem Marvel would spend years trying to solve. How do you make a sequel that still feels like a movie and just not an episode in the giant machine? That question starts here because Iron Man 2 teaches Marvel too much setup can weaken the story, a rush production can show on green sc on screen. Star Chemistry can save a lot. A strong lead performance can drag a messy film over the finish line. Villain clarity actually matters, and world building has to serve the story. That is how we're gonna introduce Iron Man 2 in our retrospective episode. So Ike, what are your initial thoughts?

SPEAKER_01 1:36:48

Well, I'm glad that they decided to um veer away from Tony going through an alcoholic problem. Mainly for one, Robert is doing that in his own life as it was. And and I and I very much am glad he got healthy and we have him because he's fantastic and and uh I'm more when it comes down to celebrities and their problems like that, would rather them go get themselves fixed. You know, we're all human beings and and uh the I know people write off a lot of these celebrities when they find out they have these kind of problems and they just kind of criticize them easily. You know, I'm more compassionate than that, though. You know, it's I know Ben Affleck and Mel Gibson have been put on that kind of uh stage before where they're very criticized and and uh have a certain kind of view just because of their problems. And and I'd rather them go get fixed. You know, go do your thing, do what you gotta do. Uh I we we we don't need those movies until you're ready. You know, and we want that. You know, I want Lee's 11-5. I want Ben Affleck to make to go direct more movies. He's a fantastic director. I want Robert Downey Jr. to have all the opportunities he can because he's such a good actor. You know, it's I don't ever judge them for their personal life outside of it because we don't live that stuff, you know. So do we didn't need to do that with the character that and he's dealing with um survivor's guilt can be shown in different ways. Uh you know, uh drug abuse and alcohol abuse is one way, but another way is also being very reckless and careless with your own life and making sporadic decisions, which Tony is very good at. So I think that him playing it that way is better than the drug and alcohol way. Because kids don't understand that as much either. But they understand, you know, oh, he's gonna go jump on a Formula One car and race his own race. That is like, well, you're being a little reckless, buddy. You know what I mean? And but that's also because this is just his way of like, you know, once again, to hit the steam in this movie when we get there. It's like he's he thinks he's not gonna live much longer anyway, because of his problem in the movie. You know, and then he also feels like he shouldn't have lived through what he lived through in the first place. So we're gonna see that scene in Tony's life going forward, all the way to the end anyway. So we don't need the extra, you know. Other than that, it sounds like uh I it sounds like it was a a fun shoot. I bet it was a great cast to be with on set. I bet that was a lot of good times, you know. Speaking to the Terrence Howard thing and all that with the recasting, I think that if you are gonna recast, they did it very good. Well, first of all, it was a great recast. You know, you you got someone that's good, at least. And second of all, it's very seamless, like you almost you almost don't even remember it. I say this recasting was smoother than when they recast for the Hulk. Because we could still sit back and say, yeah, that you know, but the other guy was a Hulk, you know. But in this, it's kind of like you just forget about it. And Rhodes had such a smaller part in the first movie that if you're re if you were to recast him for Iron Man 3, it'd be way more noticeable than it would have been for this one. So if you're gonna do the recasting and stuff, this was the perfect time to do it. Yeah. And why they recast, who knows? You know, they're both phenomenal actors. I'm not gonna talk crap about either of them. You know, if Terrence was getting screwed out of something, he really wanted something, then maybe that's the case. Maybe he wasn't. Maybe he's difficult to work with, who knows? Or maybe he's not. Uh for some reason though, they've it wasn't gonna go forward. They made they definitely dodged that bullet. So those are my initial thoughts without getting into the movie too much. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:40:28

Yeah, well. Well, I'll say my initial thoughts too is in retrospect watching this movie, uh, I definitely enjoyed it, I feel like, a lot more um than I remembered it being. I'm trying to remember where I was in 2010. To be honest, I was a kid. So I uh uh uh I'm 30 years old right now. And so to to think back it 16 years ago where the heck I was, be like, well, wow, that I was still in middle school. Yeah. Crazy to think how how much time has flop flown and how big the MCU has gotten since then. But um I like this movie.

SPEAKER_01 1:41:06

It's wild. I remember seeing Iron Man One in the theater with my friends. And this this guy here was just a little tyke. So that's that's that's I sometimes I forget to put that in perspective that people have grown up with these. Yeah. Yeah, I I didn't grow up with these. I remember time before these. And and then you don't. You know what I mean? Like to you, these were always coming out. You know, it's like really when you first start getting into movies, these were on scene, right? So for me, it was like when the the concept of Iron Man at the time was like, they're really gonna do this right now. Like, you know what I mean? It's like, what's going on? I had been seeing movies for years before this, these come out.

SPEAKER_02 1:41:40

So yeah, yeah. Yeah, and that that that happens in a lot more ways than you think about it. Like, I don't remember um uh any president before Obama. I've always grown up knowing Obama was our president. And then, oh, there's this concept that you could change a president every four to eight years. And so, but my parents are like, oh, I remember Reagan. So it's like, oh, okay, there's a whole bunch of different things that you just learn when you get older.

SPEAKER_01 1:42:04

I remember Daryl and I couldn't wait for Blade to come out on VHS.

unknown 1:42:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:42:08

We're like, we're buying that as soon as that comes out. We saved up money for it and everything. We got it, we watched it 30 times.

SPEAKER_02 1:42:15

Oh, geez. So it's just it's just cool from some bad perspective. And I like that part of this retrospective. Is to think back at all right, not only what was the world like at the time of this movie coming out, because that plays into how well it does at the box office, how it's received, all that stuff. But also, where were you personally at that end of time? Because it's quite interesting. But anyways, I did enjoy Iron Man 2, and I do think it is a worthy sequel to go on from the first Iron Man movie. It's it's funny uh when we're preparing for this and we're preparing our notes this morning that you were saying that wow, you have a completely different take than I do. But yet we I feel like we get to the mutual at the end of the day, this is where we will stand at this movie type of thing.

SPEAKER_01 1:42:59

So it's just silly. You're gonna see our scores aren't gonna be too different. Um, but yet there's gonna be a lot of differences in what we like and don't like, which is really weird.

SPEAKER_00 1:43:07

It's kind of funny.

SPEAKER_02 1:43:09

And that's one of the things when I'm doing this retrospective. I'm I'm watching this show, this movie, and I'm not only taking to account how I'm feeling when I'm watching the movie, like if it's that good, maybe I could forgive some of the Meyer spots, but there's something that I really have to nitpick. All right, this is why I'm gonna write. If I have to fill out, because we have this question here, we do um there's this blank one for all the movies, and we have one to say, where's it work, where's it doesn't work? And part of me is like, I don't want to be that person that puts, oh, nothing, nothing was wrong with it, because every movie does have a flaw, even if it's so minute that you don't think it's contributing to the overall thing. So I feel this need to write something down, but that doesn't, when it gets to my final score, that doesn't reflect how I generally feel about the movie. Because just like how it's in the opening and what we've all talked about before, is that the movie could be written really bad, but if the performances are spectacular or make you forget the bad thing that just happened, you can almost forgive the movie. That's why when you look at like The Incredible Hulk, not only was it written really badly, some of the acting was not up to par. And you could have forgiven it to a degree at certain points, but then you're like, no, you're gonna get the criticism because even the acting sucked. So, like, that's why I like about this movie is that any of the flaws that I feel like that we I had for this movie personally, the performances outshined what was happening enough where maybe what I would have given that that scene a two, I'm now gonna give it a five or six. It's still not gonna be perfect because that is still there, but it's been acted the portrayed well, performed well, that I'm gonna give it some.

SPEAKER_01 1:44:57

Well, and we're also gotta be honest about what we're looking at. You know, it's it's easy. I have there's I think there's a difference between what you would consider the best made movies in if you had top ten best made movies compared to a top ten favorite movies. You know, because one of my favorite movies of all time is Tremors. There's a lot wrong with Tremors, but I love it. So, you know, it's on it'd be if I was on a desert island, I only picked 10 movies, Travers is one of them, you know. So that doesn't mean Tremors is better than Interstellar, you know, or it doesn't mean that it's in it, but it just means it's a favorite of mine. Yeah. I have lots of movies that real bad movies, but they're my favorite. And uh yeah, I think that's what makes it interesting. I do give it some leeway, but I also hold it to the fire. You know, I'm also okay, I'm gonna be more critical than I should be. And it's funny because we did a whole list before all this, and the list is definitely changing guys. So can't wait to revise it and have a good conversation about our because when we're done, we plan on doing a whole big episode of wrecking them all. You know, it might be two episodes worth because it's oh, yeah, because this is a big list.

SPEAKER_02 1:46:05

I mean, we were going over our first one, and this is before podcasts. It took us like four hours just to get through it. Yeah. So definitely that will be like its own two-part special. And while we're still early on, I encourage anyone who's watching or listening to this right now, just on a piece of paper, maybe in the notes on your phone, just write down one through 55 for however many projects there are at the time of Marvel. And just your first gut feeling when you think of those movies, put them in your number one, your favorite, the number 55, or the last one, your least favorite. Just write them down now and save that. Because when we're done with this retrospective of each film and we do our own, we're gonna compare our first list that we did before this podcast to the new one and definitely see the change you're gonna see because it's gonna happen. There's so many of these films. Yeah, and now when you're breaking them down, now like we have this formula, we can actually go back to all of our notes and say, Oh, this is where I graded it. You know, I mean, so for sure. Do the same thing, guys. This will be fun on our road doomsday. So um, why don't you read uh act one? You get this all set up for us.

SPEAKER_01 1:47:13

So it's gonna be the beginning set up, okay. Um after publicly declaring I am Iron Man, Tony Stark is now a global celebrity and seen as both a hero and a threat. The U.S. government, led by Senator Stern, pressures him to hand over the Iron Man technology, which Tony refuses. Meanwhile, Tony is secretly dying from can you pronounce it? Pal paladinium poisoning? Paladin poisoning. Sorry, folks, if I got that wrong. Uh, caused by the arc reactor keeping him alive. Across the world, Ivan Banco builds his own arc reactor powered weapons, seeking revenge against Tony, against the Stark family. At the same time, Natasha Romanoff, undercover as Natalie Rushman, enters Tony's life and Nick Fury begins keeping a close eye on him.

SPEAKER_02 1:48:07

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:48:08

All right.

SPEAKER_02 1:48:09

Why don't you start getting into what you feel uh about that first ask?

SPEAKER_01 1:48:14

So I'll talk about all the stuff that worked for me. And I forgot when I first started the movie that it starts right out with him at the conference talking. And you find out that it's the bad guy listening to him, you know, over the TV. And I'm like, oh, I like it when movies do that a lot, you know, is because it felt like we just picked right up and we're going, going, right? I enjoy that a lot. Um, one of my favorite scenes of the whole thing, you know, and when I say favorites, I'm gonna say that phrase a lot. I do have a top favorite, which we'll get to at the end. So when I say one of my favorites, because there's a lot of good scenes in this, I do love this whole thing in the courtroom with uh and him giving his explanation of why he won't get the suit over and why they want it, you know, in South obviously is definitely big government overreach, all that stuff, you know. Um and we'll I'll we'll go ahead and talk about the elf in the room real quick. Like when if you're introducing Roadie with an as a new actor, and that's the best place to do it, and they did it, and it's fantastic. He comes in, he does great, he's funny, he's hints the marks, and he's serious at the same time, and it's just right. And and that just proved that Don Cheadle was a great choice to to replace as Roadie. I still contend that Terrence would have been just as good, but that's a whole can't prove that because he didn't do it. Um, but I do think that uh Don Cheadle really fits that role real well. Yeah, I like all this stuff, and I forgot how just nonchalant Natasha shows up and it's like there's just his. Yeah, holy cow, I forget you know, because by the time we get to end game, you're like, oh man, what a big. Big character, and it's someone that's part of the OG six. She just walks on like she's an extra, and that's one. And I'm like, oh, this is kind of neat. Watching the world building come together from the beginning again is is actually I'm finding it to be a lot of fun, you know, to be honest with you. So um, what do you how do you feel about that? What works for you? Because those those things work for me. I I definitely like that Nick Fury comes back involved. Of course, it's gonna be after you know he gets involved after Tony kind of has his falls apart and all drunk at his party and and acts up and roadie and him get into a fight. Um so I might bring that up a little later though, to be honest, with the Nick Fury stuff.

SPEAKER_02 1:50:41

Yeah. Well, I'm gonna piggyback on some of the things you just said on on what worked for me for this first act. It's a good villain setup. I like that I feel like, in my opinion, when you're thinking of um doing a sequel, and of course, your whole first movie is typically your origin movie for the hero. And that's great. You made us fall in love with him. We know his shtick now. Now, when you move forward for any sequel, whether it's a three-quel, four-quel, whatever cool week, um, that you're you're still building upon the character of the hero, but you don't have to define him anymore because he already is kind of defined in his origin. So now I'm looking for when I see a sequel, who's this adversary gonna be, whether it's a personal thing or whether it's a physical thing. And this movie does have both, which is really cool. But for the villain setup, like a physical threat to him. Oh, I did agree with you. I liked that we did a mini recap of I am Iron Man Seed, but now being seen and you're seeing the point of view of an adversary who's like, I'm not gonna put up with this. Like uh, my family's been so wronged by your family, and I'm gonna use this generational grief to take you out. Yeah, I liked how that was a good film setup.

SPEAKER_01 1:51:57

I couldn't have said it any better.

SPEAKER_02 1:51:58

I agree. Yep. Yep. The only thing I would say in my what worked is we do get later on and while I'll talk about that, where I feel like the villain was a little more dumbed downed than he. So this is how I'm gonna say this. He was dumbed downed, but not also shown that he's not dumbed downed. And I'll when we get to specific instances, I'll say what those are. But for a man who is as smart as he is, uh as a villain, to also be put in this similar situation, it didn't that didn't jive well with me. But that's just me. So, anyways, um and you cannot help but like Tony Stark. I feel like even if you're not a fan of Iron Man as a character in the comics or anything like that, which I I do understand. Like if I had to personally pick between Iron Man and Captain America, I always would pick Captain America because he's just someone I personally like more in the comics than the MCU. But when it comes to the MCU stuff, Robert Darren Jr. just kills it as Tony Stark. There is not a time where I don't want to see Tony Stark on screen. And that's that's never stopped for me. That's just he's one of those characters where y'all you gotta have him because he's just so magnetic as an actor and a performer and a character. So uh he he really saves the movie for me. No matter what the movie turned out to be, he really does really well. Um, for a retrospective point of view, though people may say that this movie is like the weakest of all the Iron Man movies, from my understanding. A lot of people, when they're listing all the Iron Man movies one, two, and three, and they're saying what's their favorite and least favorite, I'm shocked. I'm hearing a lot more people that have said two is the weakest of all three. Yeah, that's that surprises me too. Yeah, I can't agree with that. And I'm I'm only telling you because we haven't gotten to our retrospective of Iron Man Three yet. But from what I remember and the small amount of hatred I hold in my head for that movie.

SPEAKER_01 1:54:04

And we'll get to that when we get there. Well, and there's more wrong with Iron Man 3 than the thing that you definitely don't like.

SPEAKER_02 1:54:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:54:09

So there's definitely more to it than that.

SPEAKER_02 1:54:11

Yeah. So I I will say that I I think the dialogue and the character development scenes are essential for this movie. And it's funny, this is something that Marvel tends to do really well, and you see it in Endgame and especially, and what the Rooster Brothers have been able to do, is you could take the weakest chink of the whole um link, I'm sorry, of the whole film um of the whole chain of the movies, and you can um in a future movie make it vital that you had to watch that movie, and it makes that movie better. So anyone who thought that Iron Man 2 was the lowest of all of them, if you didn't get Iron Man 2, some of these future things, like the one-liners that you hear in this movie, that become they no longer become just memorable, they become iconic for the character and for their development. You have to watch this movie in order to get that. And I don't think this movie is a poor watch at all, actually. Compared to the last movie we reviewed, the rewatchability factor is definitely higher on this movie.

SPEAKER_01 1:55:17

Yeah. I'm gonna touch base on that more when we get when we do our overall thoughts movie at the end about the idea of what this the difference between the feeling of this movie brand new and the feeling of this movie after we've gotten to the end of Infinity Warsaw. Yeah. Because it's made the movie better. Really, some of the fruit the good things about it is watching it now, you're like, oh my gosh, no, now knowing where it goes, it's almost like this is obviously even better. So yeah, yeah. There's so many spots of it though. I'm gonna I'm gonna save my thoughts tonight until the end. Yeah. All right. So what didn't work for you? So I gotta be honest with you. Um, I don't agree with you about uh some of the stuff you wrote down on here. I'm gonna let you touch on that. Um with this, I'm gonna keep it short. What didn't work for me. I don't know, it's pretty simple. Like it's such the beginning part of the movie where I'm not, I don't really have, I'm not trying to be a cop-out, and I know we don't ever want to say everything's perfect, but I'm I at this point I'm in on what's going on, you know. I think you could have introduced Natasha better. If if I had to nitpick something that didn't really set out for me, is I don't know, I kind of wouldn't wouldn't have mind minded a better introduction for her, which is funny because it ends up being an answer of mine later on one of our questionnaires in a positive way. So it this is is a I have a weird take on that where this is a moment of the movie that I like a lot, but I just I wish I do wish that her introduction was a little more than just someone walking on screen and oh, by the way, this is what this is. And I know they make a big deal about it, and I know it does do what it does its job. I'm not saying it's not good enough, but it definitely, I don't know, it definitely felt kind of just you know this is where it kind of to me felt uh with it with a take that I'm gonna talk later, I don't think they knew what they were doing was very yeah, to be honest with you. And and I felt that from the immediate time is she was on. So that'd be my only issue with this first part. Because trust me, I have issues coming soon. But this is for now we're just talking about this beginning. Not meant beginnings is great so far, for sure. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:57:35

Yeah, I I can um yeah, we definitely differ a little bit on what didn't work for us personally, but also this is our our personal viewpoints more watching this and we're reading this and everything. Um there's a lot going on in this film, and whenever they do a lot of stuff in a film, it worries me what their uh outcomes are gonna be. How are they gonna tie that together? In what didn't work, I do end my little spiel on this on a positive. That it's I wouldn't even say it's too much of a criticism that it didn't work, but it's more of a worry going into it that you see as the movie progresses, it's they know how to tie it, tie up those two scents. Which I think that that is um something very very important to keep in mind for that. That there's there's a struggle of trying to balance um a couple things going on with Tony Stark. He he's really showing that he has the father issues that he has with his dad, um, a lot more so in this movie than in the first film. I think it was hinted to in the first film, but I don't remember being as prevalent as it was in this film. And um also that he is continuously dying from the thing that he put in his chest that's ironically supposed to keep him alive, too. That's uh he's dealing with a lot of those things. And when it gets to I'm no medical doctor, but he's constantly reading throughout the the film his blood toxicity levels to see where he's at and when he needs to change things and all that stuff for his arc reactor. And when he hits over 50%, part of me is wondering how is he still walking around functioning? Because I don't like again, I'm not a medical doctor, so maybe he can even walk around at 75% and everything's fine. But there are times in this movie where when I'm watching it, I'm thinking, okay, what you're showing to us that's killing you, and you're actually showing us specific numbers, and then I'm looking at the actions that you're doing at that same time, just walking into the bathroom testing it or just doing whatever testing it. I find those a little bit inconsistent. Where the times where he looks drained, he should be at that 53% range and up. Um, and the times where he's at the 53% range, you see him just getting done having a drink and walking into a bathroom of a party type thing. So those those are the parts where I'm like, okay, but maybe the consistency there needs to be fixed because if he's reading 53%, he walks into the bathroom of a party he's at, and he still looks like the life of a party. That's where I'm like, okay, let's bring into more of a world balladism type thing. That's the most nympick I could really say about that part. Um, I do think that John Favreau and what he was demanded to do with expanding the universe and with um the the things that they had to show in this movie, I think he handled them really well. And it was because of how he was able to maintain this and tie all those loose ends together that have saved this movie from being kind of a car crash at the end. Where, in my opinion, again, it's just my opinion, but there is a lot of different storylines going on in this film that one can easily be put pushed to the side, and then you're thinking, why was I even there? But thankfully, this movie does do something that not a lot of films have the capability of doing, and that's tying it all up at the end.

SPEAKER_01 2:01:08

But so you would say then that you're just in this first part is what didn't work for you, is what it feels like it's doing at this point. Yes. I personally didn't never felt that way going through the movie. Um I actually kind of strive for more of this stuff about his dad. Um, I did too. You know, it never crossed my mind about the blood toxicity level. I kind of take some of these things too, you gotta take as like this is a fizz. Yeah, it's a fan. I mean, he's in an iron suit and he falls to the ground.

SPEAKER_02 2:01:40

Well, and that's apparently killing him more than just the thing in his chest.

SPEAKER_01 2:01:44

Yeah. But yeah, we saw it.

SPEAKER_02 2:01:45

Of course, you can't have an iron man moving about me.

SPEAKER_01 2:01:47

So Well, we see that a lot with stuff. They did that with Thor Love and Thunder, where the more she was Thor, the faster she was dying. Exactly. So would you think, wait a minute, wouldn't that be the opposite? Because it's you know, because it's magic or whatever, you know, there really was no explanation, right? So I yeah, it it it never really crossed my mind, to be honest with you. Um but it's about it.

SPEAKER_02 2:02:09

Yeah. But yeah, when I'm when I'm breaking down these, by the way, guys, we're we're doing this in like this is act one. Yeah. And so I when whatever I felt about that act, I I what worked for me, what didn't work, and different things like that. And like I just said, for what didn't work for me. Obviously, as this movie went on, it did improve upon that and it fixed it, which made me feel relieved. But you know, I think that when people are making these films, they have to take into that account of okay, how are people feeling in the beginning? And are we able to resolve that negative any negative feelings towards the end? Yeah. And I think a lot of films forget that and they just say, Oh, just forget about it now and go into the next phase. But no, no, you set all this up. So now you have to deliver on that, you know what I mean? So, anyways, that's what I feel is the most that didn't work out for me, which is actually being very nitpicky.

SPEAKER_01 2:03:01

Yeah, well, and like I said, it it in especially uh the first suppression, I can see why it feels that way. Yeah. All right, what's your standout moment? Well, I my standout moment in this is I the I the courtroom scene for me is about a good scene. I I think the chemistry between um Robert Dunner Jr. and Don Cheadle shown even in a scene that was full of a lot of people. And to me, that made a big difference on what they'd be like when they're alone, too. Because when they're alone is one thing, which that that you know, if they can be this well together while they're acting with a bunch of other people, probably I can't wait to see their stuff alone now. And then it pays off real well, right? So yeah, that stood out to me the most is how much I enjoyed that scene. And I have my issues with Hammer, and we'll talk about him in the next segment. Um, but I liked him here in this part.

SPEAKER_00 2:04:01

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 2:04:02

Yeah, your our introduction to Justin Hammer is great. I think it's almost yeah, yeah. I agree. It's I have issues with him going forward, but right here is fine. Yeah, yeah. I'm completely agreed on that. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 2:04:12

Yeah. All right. So what would your oh well my stand-up moment? I wrote down everything of RDJ because it's kind of hard to watch a show or a movie like this, and when he's in the scene, even if the scene is bad and you have to nitpick a scene, his acting is just so phenomenal with it. It's just it really, and I'm I'm not saying this to be like gushing over RDJ, but I sincerely mean it if you're watching Robert, you are an amazing actor. Oh, he's his funniest in this movie.

SPEAKER_01 2:04:42

You just oh yeah, he's so funny. I think this is the funniest Marvel movie he's done.

SPEAKER_02 2:04:48

If anything, doing a retrospective on these early movies of his and as Iron Man makes me more optimistic for his version of Dr. Doom. Because I will be honest, I was I was not a fan of Robert Down Jr. becoming Dr. Doom. I completely wasn't. I feel like we need a fresher actor. I feel like moving forward in the MCU, we are gonna get a fresher actor because he's that big of a villain. But I I I had the that was one of those moments where you're like, gotta lay it in the hands of uh the Russo brothers and Kevin Foggy to say, okay, I just can see what you're gonna do. But I and he's a great actor. That's why I'm saying when we're doing a retrospective of these movies, if he's this good of an actor as Tony Stark, it's making me more anticipate what he's gonna be as our.

SPEAKER_01 2:05:39

But that's only if he plays Dr. Doom with the assumption that he looks like Tony Stark, right? I'm well Do you see what I'm trying to say? Like, because here's here's what I'm here's because I love what you just said, but man, it sparked a fire real quick. Because I gotta be honest with you, he's too much of a noticeable, notable face of Marvel in and outside of the movies. Because he when he goes to award shows or when he shows up at hospitals or all the anything that he does, he puts on that Tony Stark persona because it's fun. And you could tell he's enjoying every minute of it, and he should, because he's great at it. When you bring him out and he rips off the mask and it's look who's Doctor Doom, and it's him. There's no like, oh, we can just cast him as it because he's a good actor and he's gonna do a good spot. But he also no, he looks like Tony Stark.

SPEAKER_02 2:06:32

Well, there's there is definitely a reason why they picked him. Not just what if there is a put away Does that change how you feel about it?

SPEAKER_01 2:06:39

What, that just because he's a What if it's just yeah, he just did it because it's him? I feel like I could go 50-50.

SPEAKER_02 2:06:45

What if we never see his face in two movies? I could go 50-50 on that. And I'm saying that because I think Robert Downey Jr. is a good enough actor that even if we never see his face, as long as he's acting the character the way he's supposed to be, I can forgive that part. Because he that's the one brilliant thing about Dr. Doom. He has a mask on. You could say that same thing about Iron Man, but Iron Man, just as he says in this movie, I'm Tony Stark, and Tony Stark is Iron Man. Right, we need both of them. The government can't take my suit because they'll be taking me.

SPEAKER_01 2:07:13

You don't think this is the same that doesn't apply for your Dr. Doom? No, either. Your perfect Dr. Doom can be a Dr. Doom that is just always in the mask. No, that's true.

SPEAKER_02 2:07:25

No. But that's why I'm saying that this movie is for them casting Robert Down Jr., if they're never intending on revealing his face, which they are, because he's got he's got that million-dollar face that that's getting. Well, you're not gonna give $100 million to be in a mask type. Exactly. And there's no way in this multiverse thing that they're doing that they're gonna do uh Robert Downing Jr. casting as Victor Von Doom, Dr. Doom, and Tom Holland or Thor is not gonna see that. There's no way that's not figured into the plot of the rumor statement.

SPEAKER_01 2:07:57

There is a rumor that that's the truth.

SPEAKER_02 2:08:00

I'm sorry. If they do that, that's a big fat missed opportunity that I do not expect Russo Brothers to you to get wrong. Like you are one of our saving graces in the MCU. You cannot do these missed opportunities. You've proven so far you haven't. Yeah. Don't start now.

SPEAKER_01 2:08:16

Anyways. Because I'd say he's only good later like that if if it is tied in. If it's not, then it's like, what are we doing?

SPEAKER_02 2:08:23

Yeah. No, my perfect Doctor Doom would have a good Victor Von Doom and Doctor Doom storyline tied in. You have to understand who he is, yeah. But with the multiverse the way it is, and knowing I'm only getting him for two films, I can settle for this would be fine 50-50, in my opinion. But and that's also in the retrospect of watching these movies and seeing, okay, he just just a really good actor. So I can forgive that part. Okay. We'll see if it holds up. I just want to throw that out there. I'm glad you did.

SPEAKER_01 2:08:51

That's good the challenge.

SPEAKER_02 2:08:53

He's a great actor, I get you. But yeah, man, what if it's what if that's not what I don't want to overhype him, but at the same time, I I personally just can't deny how magnetic of a uh because his curse is this part.

SPEAKER_01 2:09:06

Yeah. It's not that it's a bad curse, but it does mean when he shows up in the MCU, it's not like he could just be anybody. No, yeah. He can't do that. Yeah. So well, you could you could hire Edward Norton tomorrow to play a whole different character and we would just be like, oh, that's fine. Yeah, just forget that he was all it's okay, whatever. Terrence Howard too. Yeah, but you couldn't, you can't. When you put RDJ in Marvel, it's it's Iron Man. So if you're gonna do him as Doctor Doom, it's gonna have to do his Iron Man somehow. Even if it's whatever they decide to do, it's gotta be something's gotta be. Like, oh wow, you're you look a lot like you know, but he might be like, yeah, I know.

SPEAKER_00 2:09:46

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:09:47

You know, or whatever. It could be simple, but it it I mean it's obvious. So I do agree with you.

SPEAKER_02 2:09:54

Um I just put everything RDJ from my standout. Yeah, I'm with you. Um I do agree to that. I the courtroom scene or I think that's the I think that's supposed to be the Senate hearing. Yeah, Senate in a court for senator and all that stuff, and I'll get to him later.

SPEAKER_01 2:10:08

Um the Senate hearing is what it was, yeah. Yeah, yeah. And we're getting the impression it wasn't the first one, too.

SPEAKER_02 2:10:13

So yeah, yeah. I love, I do, I will say, is really cool. And I gotta say, this has to be John Favreau's idea or RDJ's idea. Probably John Favreau, because he really is a uh creative mind behind making Iron Man land, and he is the Oh for sure. Um he is the driving force behind the director's chair for this. But having um and she becomes a famous actor later, but this is a quick cameo appearance. Is that Kate Mara, the hands of the subpoena ticket?

SPEAKER_01 2:10:43

Boy, that's a good question.

SPEAKER_02 2:10:45

Is that the girl that plays Sue Storm in the Bad Fantastic Four movie 2015 and plays in House of Cars season one? You know I didn't. I think that's her with blonde hair and looking all pretty. That's something to look up, ladies and gentlemen. Um, and my brother probably confirm while we're talking. Yes. But there was a quick cameo of an actor, and I love that. It's like a Octavia Spencer in the first Iron Man movie, uh, first Spider-Man movie. You're like, oh, you're gonna be really big someday. Like, I know you're big enough now to be in these movies. Great, good for you. But you know, some actors they just end up taking off later on to something a bigger role and all that. And that's why I felt like for her. And it was just so perfect that this hot girl that he's flirting with, and he's like, does she come with a car? All that stuff, and be like, You've been served a subpoena. Do you want to see do you want to see the badge? Do you like that? He's like that. I thought that was just really cool. He doesn't like to be handed things.

SPEAKER_01 2:11:41

Oh, that was just so I will let you know as soon as it I'll interrupt you and we'll let you know as soon as as soon as we load, folks.

SPEAKER_02 2:11:49

Yeah. All right. Uh but yeah, anyways, um, what is your score of the first act? I I give it eight out of ten. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's fair.

SPEAKER_01 2:11:58

I think that's fair.

SPEAKER_02 2:12:00

Same thing, eight out of ten. Alright, while that's loading over there, we'll go up to that in a moment. I'm gonna read to you guys Act Two, and we're gonna talk about it. So, Act Two, Tony's health worsens and behave and his behavior becomes increasingly reckless as he struggles with his impending death. At the Monaco Grand Prix, Vanco attacks Tony palpably with electrified whips, revealing that Iron Man technology can be replicated. Though Tony defeats him, rival weapons manufacturer Justin Hammer recruits Vanco to build advanced drones and weapons. Meanwhile, Tony pushes away pepper pots and clashes with his friend James Rose, who takes one of the Iron Man suits leading to the creation of War Machine. With guidance from Nick Fury, and a discovery left behind by his father, Howard Stark, Tony synthesizes a new element that cures his poisoning and upgrades his arc reactor.

SPEAKER_00 2:13:01

Okay, there's a lot to talk about here.

SPEAKER_03 2:13:03

There is a lot to talk about here. Yeah. Yeah, it's it's it's making me think about my hot tick later on. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:13:15

But I'm gonna start off first with what worked for me. Yeah, go ahead. All right. It's in my opinion, this is very comic accurate and displayed really well what Tony Stark does in the face of his ultimate demise. Because one of the things that I think us as comic book fans are looking for when we're watching these movies is how close is it to the comics? And I'm gonna be the first person to tell you, as a comic book fan, not always do the comic book version of the characters translate well for your general audience on the film. So I'm okay with Creative Liberty. However, how they displayed what Tony would do in the face of death, exactly comic book accurate. I, in my opinion, at least, and someone, a bigger comic book nerd out there might find something that's different and say to me in the comments, what's wrong? Go right ahead. I'm all ears. I love hearing different points of view. And there are times in the comics where even the comics contradict themselves. But for what I know of Tony Stark, what he does when he's pushed up against the wall and he's either about to die or about to lose something, this is exactly what he would act like. He would act like a reckless guy. And he's obviously dying. And the first thing he thinks of when he takes blood toxicity and sees it's really high. He's like, I'm just gonna go behind the wheel of a race car. That everyone says you have no experience and you're gonna probably die doing it. He's gonna die either way, so might as well go off the way he wants to go out. I think that makes him this drive of this impending death that, like you said, he he faces this in two ways. One, he doesn't believe you should have survived at the beginning of the Iron Man One. And so that's a constant theme for Tony Stark in all these films, from what I remember. And then, two, for this film in particular, he is constantly facing death with what's going on here. So he might as well live as carefree as he wants. And that's what he's that's what he's deciding to do. He's gonna take those crazy risks that no normal person would, that he probably wouldn't do if he didn't think he was dying. And there you go.

SPEAKER_03 2:15:22

And that's what makes him very likable. So that's what worked for me for this segment.

SPEAKER_01 2:15:28

Yeah, um, I agree on all of that. Uh his this getting behind the wheel of that car, you know, yeah, we don't know how much experience he's having. I mean, now that we watch a real good F1 movie, we realize you really gotta know what you're doing, and I don't think Tony Stark's up to the task. But at the same time, he's you know, he's he is up to the task of doing stuff in the Iron Man suit, so he's used to wear and tear on his body. So I could I could see this happening for fun. Um it makes for good comedy as well. You know, this is where I start having trouble with Hammer. Justin Hammer isn't this, um, but let's talk about what worked first. Um, I this is my favorite. Well, I wouldn't say favorite. This is in my top five favorite moments of Tony getting into his suit, the Iron Man's suit. When they come up on that track there, he's trying to get that briefcase out of uh Pepper's hands, and the door keeps closing, and then he pops that briefcase out and he steps down on that briefcase. And that what what mock what what number suit is this? What do they call the the name of that suit? Do you know? There's a name for it, right?

SPEAKER_02 2:16:48

There is. I I don't know on the top of my head because he has more of a comic book. They're more like Mark something, yeah. Mark III, Mark whatever. I don't know this, the one that you're talking about, the the suitcase.

SPEAKER_01 2:16:59

Yeah, the suitcase I love it. It is such an awesome suit-up moment. It's so and he's got some good suit-up moments, and but this one's the top five. I love this suit-up moment because he's just and he's like, Oh man, this is so good. And I like that he's facing off with whiplash at first as Tony Stark. Like you know, he's not Iron Man, he's just he's like literally, and that's something he does also in movies. I mean, obviously it's Tony Stark even out of the Iron Man, so always anyways. You know, you never feel like this is a Batman thing because he's always one of the other. But like it just it is more, you know, it is more uh it's more gripping when you see him back in a suit fighting, right? You know, and we we'll see this later on in Avengers when he faces Loki without his suit on, or or even in in uh uh Infinity War when his mask is ripped off and him and Sand also are having a straight conversation. It's you feel like it's he's even more it's almost like we feel like without his suit, he's so much more vulnerable. But to be honest with you, it's not much different, right? So I like that that moment of the fighting with Whiplash at first was him just dodging him because holy cow, this is scary, you know, and and he needed his suit to do what he did. And yeah, no, I love that suit up moment that is so good, that worked for me so well. I love that so much. And what really worked in this whole scene, in this segment that we're talking about, was most everything, but uh I love him making the new element. That whole thing of him being here, you're basically under house arrest. You need to get your crap together, and they weren't doing that so he could like go figure out something for them that they needed to do. He was doing that to save his life. He you know, Nick Fury basically made Tony Stark do his own intervention. Like, listen, you're smart, you need to figure out how to keep yourself alive. So here you go, go do that. Everything that was going on there was only for him to survive. It for the storyline going forward meant nothing. Really. It you mean it does mean that there's a new element, and you know, the elements be made. Am I in the right spot for that? Yeah, yeah, you're in the right spot. Yeah, and yeah, because yeah, for upgrades as Arc Reactor. That it's a yeah, it for me, it's like that reminds me so much of the first movie, him in the cave making all the stuff. This is his cave, now it's just his home, right? And but I I love a Mia movie of somebody figuring things out, you know, doing tests and writing things down and and heavy revelations. That scene after he figures out that the uh the map that his dad made was actually the element, you know, or all the things that he's missing in order to make this thing happen. You know, when he's sitting there and he's doing all the movements, he's making it. I'm like, oh my god, that is what made this movie for me was those moments. I love that stuff. All that stuff is great. And that made me think of this is what Iron Man's like. And it actually changed my mind about Iron Man 3 a little bit, believe it or not, which we'll get there when we get there. Because I think what's unique about Iron Man, when you think of Iron Man, you go, minus Civil War, okay, because it really isn't his movie, right? In all almost every Iron Man movie where they're trying to focus on him when it comes down to like some sort of arc for him, he's brought down to a basic level that he needs to build up from again. Iron Man 3, yeah, he's in someone's garage. And even at the end of Infinite beginning of Endgame, they're out in space trying to figure out how to get the ship going again. Because nothing, they're down to nothing again, and it's always life and death right then and there. And it's and I think that that's been that theme for him for a long time. In two, really kind of was like two kind of kept it going, right? The first movie obviously made sense that he made the suit in the cave. But in two, it's like, let's repeat that, but for a different reason. You know, that that's still part of the same reason. And it makes it like he needed to be that guy. We needed to focus on why he is Tony Stark. And it's not because he's funny, it's not because he's crazy, it's not because he's a woman raiser, it's because he's a genius, and that's and we needed to always, I mean, gosh, he's a guy that comes that figures out time travel later on, but he is the genius of Marvel, right? It at least from what I from where we are at this point in time in the universe. Yeah. I love that whole scene that works for me so well. You know, it just it really carries through with it. I was more glued to the movie watching that scene than I was for any other parts of the movie. And I was saying other parts are bad. I'm just saying I for a moment there I found myself going, oh man, I forget how fun these moments are of him figuring this stuff out. You know, seeing the Captain America shield that's half broke and he puts it underneath the thing. You know, it's like just talking to his robots again. Like it's just stuff like that. Was like, man, this is what makes this good. This is what makes this a lot of fun. And yeah, I enjoy the hell out of that a lot. Yeah big time. Yeah, that to me, that really is the standout stuff that worked a lot for me. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:22:25

All right. What didn't work for you is what's trying to roll.

SPEAKER_01 2:22:28

Gosh are that whole the whole roadie coming and taking a suit. I cannot. When I watched that, I was like, oh no. Do I not like this movie now all the sun? Yeah, the same reaction I did on the show. It's so bad, guys. Like just him being drunk, and I want it to be funny, and I want to see what they're doing, and I'm sure they meant it that way. But the entire thing is cringy. It's just even the fight. I'm like, this is dumb. And I I don't think it's dumb because I don't think I it's hard to believe Roadie could kick his butt. Um, I kind of give Roadie the upside to that because Tony is skunk drunk. So I can okay, at the very least, Tony's not in the kind of shape to really fight like he could, and it's still early on Amazon, your man too, so he's not the best at it either. So I can see why Rhodes, and and if you really think about when you watch it, I think Tony does come to kick his butt a little, you know. He's just also skunk drunk. But A test was not, it just didn't work for me, man. The mix of the CGI here is very noticeable, and I wasn't too pleased. Like I was like, ugh, ugh. I don't know. No, I didn't like anybody in the scene. I think all their all of their lines, the way they were delivered, I really feel like this was one of those scenes where I was like, man, how are we gonna get the suit from Tony? Let's on the day of sitting in the trailer, let's do this one. And it kind of, but it's a such CGI heavy one. I I find it hard to believe it wasn't a plant out scene either. Because it is so CGI heavy.

SPEAKER_03 2:24:04

Yeah, because they had to prove all that stuff and all that stuff.

SPEAKER_01 2:24:08

It's not just a scene between a couple of things. It comes too much to do in the editing room.

SPEAKER_03 2:24:11

They usually scrap it up there like this plane, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:24:15

Yeah, and this is this actually makes me think that this was the part of the alcoholic storyline that they didn't take out that they should have. That they just did this because he's partying, because he almost died, so he's having a party and acting like a like an idiot. Yeah. But if from the beginning of the movie he was always drunk doing dumb stuff, this scene would make more sense. Because this is the first time that we really see Tony, and the last time we see Tony drunk and out of control.

SPEAKER_03 2:24:40

That's true. That very, very true. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 2:24:43

We always see Tony with a drink, though. Yeah, but we never see him drunk and out of control. And this is what we're seeing now.

SPEAKER_00 2:24:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:24:49

So if if they went along with the alcoholic storyline, this scene fits. And the fight still is a little cringy, but the scene fits. But now this scene's way out of this doesn't seem to me, he just doesn't seem like the guy that lets himself get that angry. It'd have been I just I wish that there's I personally don't have a uh another way to show of him getting the suit other than legally him being made to give it over. Um, so I'm not I'm not sitting here trying to say I I would do a dip about different kind of sea. I don't know. You know, it I I did try to think what if I was a writer, what would I wrote in for Roadie to come take the suit or whatever? And yeah, I couldn't think of anything off the top of my head right away. Give me some more time, and I probably could, but this wasn't to me, this didn't feel like the right way to do it. Yeah. Yeah, it really did not work for me. And there was a moment where I got a little worried, like, oh man, all the good parts of this movie in the beginning crap and it sucks. I hope it's enough to ask me. I hope I don't feel this way forward. Thankfully it didn't. It's just that part was just kind of glaring to me. Yucky, this is yucky. This is like, I don't like this. You know, and that's and I I do, I really now now that after you give the history and all that, I do think this was stuff from the alcoholics turned on that they kept it because they had no other way to get the suitable waveframe.

SPEAKER_02 2:26:12

Well, and it feels like to me from from that point of view, before I get on to what didn't work for me, which by the way, I'm like 85-95% of everything that you just said is what I basically wrote down here. I I changed a couple of things from what you said, but it sounds like that the original intent of the storyline for this film was that demon in the valve storyline, which arguably is one of Tony Stark's biggest like fan favorite comic book moments, so I see why they wanted to use that. But um, this is the one scene off that version of the script that they come down. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:26:48

And that might work on the comic book, but I don't think it would work in the movie.

SPEAKER_02 2:26:51

Well, and I think for the movie, like you said, if they had started the film off with him being an alcoholic, it would have made more sense for the alcohol part of things. See, I interpreted that film, that that scene, not as an alcoholic thing, just as a party scene, he's wasted, but not as an he's an alcoholic type thing. I just I took that as another version of him being reckless, but then doing a different different thing.

SPEAKER_01 2:27:14

That's probably the way it's intended, too. Yeah. It just felt uh for me, that really fell out of place. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:27:19

So what what didn't work for me for this whole act was Roadie being able to just put the suit on and immediately know what to do with it. Like, and I'm not saying that we need a scene of Roadie testing it out, although I did part a little bit of that in here, that we had saw something to that degree. For instance, at the at the end of Ant-Man, you know that Hope is gonna get the wasp outfit. And by the second movie, she's full on doing things with the wasp. So you know between those two films, she was she was trained in it of her dad and everything. Yeah. But Iron Man didn't do any of that setup. They didn't show in the first film. They had a little nod of Terrence Howard looking at it and saying, maybe someday. But there was no, I'm gonna show you. Hey, let's hang out in my Tony Stark saying, let's hang out in my uh my lab or my workshop and let's play around with this. Where you would think, oh, eventually we're gonna get that. He knows what's gonna do. We didn't get anything like that. So what what's weird to me is he goes, Roadie goes downstairs thinking the only way to stop Tony is to, because he's wearing the Iron Man suit, is to meet him where he is, like physically at that point with Iron Man suit, Iron Man suit. He doesn't know that thing even fits him. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:28:36

And he gets in it and it's a perfect fit. There's no security protocol. Anyone could just walk in and be like, I'm gonna get in that zoo. Yeah, there's no like, oh, you're not, you know, sorry, sir, but you know, yeah, uh, what's the passcode? You know what I mean? Like he did type in the passcode to get into in there. So he'd be in there, but but I agree.

SPEAKER_02 2:28:53

The zoo and being in the room are two different things, right? Yeah, yeah. See, and he's that big of a person with throwing that type of a party with Pepper Potts, the CEO at that point of Stark Industries being there and um Brody being from the military right there. You think there would have been some sort of protection group there, you know, that says don't go here, don't go there, all that stuff, you know. Otherwise, not only is Tony Stark really reckless and physically what he's doing to himself, but reckless in his property, where any drunk girl could go up to the second or third story and probably die falling because I'm how it's an architect and they're all drunk. Anyways, um just throwing that out there. But um, that's the only thing to me that really didn't work. I like the idea of Rhodie getting in the war machine suit and battling Iron Man as a I'm gonna knock you down a peg. You're too drunk, go home, stop it. I I like that idea. I don't think it was executed well. I agree. I think I think I'm with you. Yeah. And I yeah, I think that it's not a bad idea.

SPEAKER_01 2:30:00

It just it just didn't come off. Yes, it didn't come off naturally.

SPEAKER_02 2:30:03

Yeah, and I could see where that would be great uh maybe not fan service, but great um promotional material. All right, man, versus war machine. You don't know the whiplash is done a villain type thing. But you know, I could see where they could really use that stuff. Yeah, I agree. Uh I don't think it was done. Um that that was that's probably in most of them one of the one of the biggest glaring uh mistakes that would have been great for reshots, you know? But uh yeah, I so I like that the or I didn't I didn't really like that scene too much and how it started and how and everything, but I get why they did it, and I would have been okay with a scene like that if it was executed a little bit better, is the best way of saying it. Um I wondered how and I know we saw it a little bit in the movie, and we kind of talked about this before the podcast started. Um Ivan creates the the his arc reactor it and then um takes those weapons across borders, which of this probably still within um Europe because it looks like that's where the Grand Prius is, and he I think is in Russia at that time, from my understanding, which part of it's in Europe, part of it's not in Europe. Because it's not in Italy, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:31:22

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um he could just be in a car and fly.

SPEAKER_00 2:31:28

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 2:31:28

Yeah, but the I don't know. I I see why they did that scene because that was all over the trailers too of Iron Man 2 is that scene of him as with Lash doing his thing and all that, and visually and stump-wise, really well done, I thought. But the it just I'm wondering how did he get the tickets to go over there and it just it felt weird for me. How I would have done it a little bit differently because uh how they're portraying Ivan is he is so smart that he creates his own arc reactor. This just like what Tony did. That was the whole point of no one else has this technology. Justin Hammer's trying to recreate it, even in adversaries like North Korea and all that stuff, which uh when we get to the third act, I'm gonna tell you where my biggest pet peeves are on that. And part of my initial hot take for this film, I'm gonna spoil it right now because as we're going through and I'm remembering some things, I'm like, well, it's not really too much of a hot take anymore, is that Ivan seems to be technologically advanced because I I almost would have thought superior than Tony Stark, but not really. Because if you think about it, Tony Stark made the same thing just with scraps in the cave where Ivan is smart. You have to give him that credit that he made something that no one else was able to make other than Tony. But he probably had a lot more tools at his disposal than Tony did. Um, so he is very smart, but at the same time, he's kind of dumb to a degree with how he makes his entrance and all that stuff. I don't know. I have a little mixed feelings on Ivan as the villain. I don't think he's the worst villain Marvel's ever had, but he definitely is not the one that I would say he's would have been a top-tier villain where I feel like he could have been. I don't know where the sweet spot would be for that, but uh that was the only thing I would say is him getting to that scene and his entrance into it was a little I would have changed that a little bit. But it doesn't diminish the scene too much, it's just a taste, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:33:35

I would say this is where you and I have our party enough ways with this. Um not like I said, not like you know, when we don't have to we don't have to uh uh batter the idea that it's personal taste. I get it, but I will say this so I completely get the uh opposite feeling. I I think him, yes, he's obviously smart, smarter than. Most of the villains that um Iron Man comes up against. Um I if anything, one part that I agree with you is they could have done a little more to show how smart he was. But the fact that he'd made the Arc Reactor and he had time and it wasn't under the pressure of his life being taken from him. But I think it spoke to how scary he was, though, too, with the motivation to make the arc reactor. You know, because his motivation is to get revenge on the Stark family. And I see, see, I look at him as a terrorist. And that's what they did wrong with Iron Man 3, they did right with Iron Man 2. Where him randomly walking onto the track and do what he did on a random day like that felt like a random terrorist attack. See, his motivation isn't to rule the world or isn't for money, it isn't this, it's to get Tony. And he's gonna take advantage of any moment he can to do it. Now, did he did he know Tony was gonna jump in the car and drive? Probably not. But he needed to be on that track, he needed to be there, he knew Tony owned a car, he knew he was gonna be there. So when he looks up at the thing and he sees Tony's getting in the car, he said, okay, well, we'll go right out there and get him done. So I don't think there was a it was like a plan, like I'm gonna go get him while he's driving. I think he went there and he was just gonna show up and do what he's gonna do. Um, and that's been the whole, the whole point of the senators and all them talking to Tony is look, someone's gonna use this like a terrorist, and it's just gonna hurt people. It just so happens to be Tony's the subject that he's trying to hurt. I yeah, I wouldn't change the scene at all, actually. I love that he comes out. You hear the audience's reaction, you see like almost like the cell phone footage, like of the camera footage, like people are catching it as it's happening. You know, and he's not only hurting Tony, he's hurting whoever's driving on that track. He's there to kill, you know. I it's uh one of the most badass villain entrances. I mean, it just is as he turns on the thing, it burns away his shoot. That's some awesome stuff. And when he does a whipping like this, that's kind of you're just like this guy is scary. And then I think that that's just it. There's there's no negotiating with this guy. It's not like, oh, I you I should have done something for you, or you're coming after me because you need something from me. He just wants to kill him.

SPEAKER_02 2:36:21

And it goes to his strength that he's hit multiple times with a car and he still is walking away from that.

SPEAKER_01 2:36:25

Yeah, oh yeah, he's a tough SOB. And then even the conversations afterwards, it's not even a hatred, it's not even the outburst of anger. He's just it's just like we're just destined. Like your dad wronged my dad, so on and so forth, goes back further than that. Blah, blah, blah. And then this is this is your destiny, is me killing you. He's calm almost about it. That's a scary guy. And I think that that's what I like about this guy the most, is he's not once to you really something will you see a little worry out of him. But there's not many times where you see him lose control. Like he's even when he goes to hurt someone, he's just very calm and not that's true. Yeah, and it and it and it and it's and it's like a planned, he's like an unplanned, but at the same time feels almost like it's planned, right? It's like everything he does turns out to be a terrorist attack in the long run. If you think about it, like even that's the expose at the end, he brings all the machines to life. He's shooting at everybody. He's like he's just ruining he just he wants Tony. That's obviously his goal, but he's in a lot of ways hurting everybody around him, too, is his way of getting at him in the same way, you know. So to me, that's that's where that does that work the most. I wouldn't change that at all. I understand how why you feel that way about it. I just I just when I watched it, I kind of felt that these are those are the moments that made me go, oh, why didn't I like this as much before? Like now I like this more now, you know, than I did before.

SPEAKER_02 2:37:53

When you put it in the lens of a terrorist perspective, which I really should have thought about that way, it makes a lot more sense because that's what you even see in real life random terrorist attacks against a certain group or individual or whatever. That's what he was doing. He was just doing a Taurus Tony, regardless if he knew he was going to be in the racetrack or not. He knew he was there.

SPEAKER_01 2:38:13

And that's and the only way to get him to the United States is under arrest. Like, because a good idea that the idea of him getting all that technology that he made in a plane into the United States for Russia, or in his we look at this guy, clearly he's got a rapture. There's no airport security he's going to. Like, yeah, let's pull that one aside. You know what I mean? I know it's sorry about the profiling guy, but look at him. Like he's asking to be checked, you know, by dogs and stuff. He's asking. Yes, that's I mean, that's Yeah. If you're gonna put him in the United States where he's gonna actually be a formidable force where he's gonna have the problems for them there, the only way to do it is do I think the wait until we did it. Yeah, which is what which is gives Hammer a good position.

SPEAKER_02 2:38:57

Well, isn't that what happens is that um he doesn't even go over in the natural way over there. He's hammer breaks.

SPEAKER_01 2:39:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:39:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:39:07

So then to me, that's the only way to do it. Is that he didn't have to bring his technology because Hammer provided it for him to do. Yeah. And and that so to me, that makes a lot more sense. I think this is when we really get to get to know Hammer too a little bit, right? That's are we in the our next part? Is that the breakout part? Yeah. Because I'll I can wait for that, the stuff with Hammer till then.

SPEAKER_02 2:39:29

Yeah, I'm gonna wait for that too. Because one yeah, yeah, the next part is definitely more hammer. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 2:39:35

Yeah, yeah. I'm we I still think we're a little different on Hammer, but like I like I think we have a couple similar things about that. Yeah, no, I'm with you. You can have I understand why you feel the way you did about it. I really do. It just for some reason it came off differently to me. I kind of for me it was like, oh, that's a scarier kind of guy, because there is no nefarious really in this whole movie, there is no nefarious big game. Yeah. This whole movie's about whether or not the Iron Man suit should be public or owned by the government. Take Tony down. Yeah, and a very personal thing between Tony and this guy. You know, uh which I kind of like because it kind of felt like the first movie too, the stakes aren't quite there yet. Right. Yeah. Because when you get to the third, it is about kind of like the bigger things that almost typically, right?

SPEAKER_02 2:40:27

That and that's the thing when we get to that one to talk about with the universe building, how that didn't work. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah. The pacing followed.

SPEAKER_01 2:40:35

Yeah, oh yeah, yeah, I think so.

SPEAKER_00 2:40:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:40:37

There's a couple of moments um I was like, oh, this is going up here.

SPEAKER_02 2:40:42

But but it it worked though for me. Same for me. I don't recall any scenes that dragged on to the point where I thought, oh, I'm losing interest. You know, I maintain my interest no matter what. Even if there's things I didn't like about that you liked about it, I still maintain my interest.

SPEAKER_01 2:40:56

You know, I agree.

SPEAKER_03 2:40:58

What's your best character?

SPEAKER_01 2:41:00

Two. Um, and it's all with the villain. I love his first appearance in the fight. I I like how determined he is, I like how scary he comes off, and I love their conversation between them and when he after he's caught. I like that it's because it's very vague, it's very nonchalant, it's not very threatening. It's kind of it was like a weird kind of back and forth that you know Tony was just kind of upstaging him the whole time. And he kind of was smirking at it because he knows that he's capable of a lot more than what Tony's letting out. I I don't I just thought it worked well for me.

SPEAKER_03 2:41:33

So yeah. Um I'll say my favorite uh character moment for me personally is Brody.

SPEAKER_02 2:41:42

I think that expanding the character's goal in in this film definitely did a service to the character himself. But I also think that the chemistry between Don Sheetle and Robert Downey Jr. is much better than what Terrence Howard's was with RDJ, in personal opinion. For that um, and I think that really showed in his performance, despite what we think of that that scene, the parts we didn't like of the Roddy versus um Tony uh scene, the acting part of it was really good on Don Sheadle's part. I can't say that he his, you know, when he says, I'm only gonna say this once, get out, it could sound very cheesy depending on how you delivered it. Yeah, it's not bad, but it wasn't bad at all. I think it perfectly lined up with the mask falling down and everything. I so I uh to me, he's just a standout moment for me as like, oh, this is a character I actually like now compared to my first reaction in the first film. I didn't like it too much. Yeah. So that's that's for me.

SPEAKER_01 2:42:39

Is this it remind me if I'm mistaken? It before they have their fight, they have that scene together where he's sick, right? And oh that's after. That's after, okay.

SPEAKER_02 2:42:50

That's after that's right. That's when he finds out that that I'm kind of hard on you and I see why what's going on. That solidifies this is when they're figuring out, all right, you're just acting like a jerk, Tony. I'm gonna stop you. And then they realize why he's acting like a jerk.

SPEAKER_01 2:43:05

Yeah, I'm sure we'll get to it there, but that definitely solidified maybe how good they are together. Yeah. Oh, what was your rating? Oh, your score. But I gotta tell you, that freaking fight scene kicks the crap out of me. But there's so many good things in this segment. I give it a six out of ten. I got it. That fight scene, I really did not like it, man. I was like, I want to like this, but as much as I love, I mean, I love him coming out on that track and the whip stuff. It is so good, and it's funny, and the cargan slice, yeah, all that stuff is great. He's suiting up. Oh, it's good. That fight sucks, though, with him and Roadie. Ah yeah, six out of ten, because I gotta be honest about that. It is so cringy, I'm almost like, ew, yeah, yeah, you need something different there.

SPEAKER_02 2:43:48

But that was funny, is that we uh we have a similar feeling towards the fight scene, honestly. And I even had a little worse of opinion for the the villain entries. Yeah, you did my score is seven out of two. It's funny. So it's almost like this is balancing out somehow in the future.

SPEAKER_03 2:44:08

All right. Um let's see. The uh how um how about you read the um final act?

SPEAKER_01 2:44:16

Uh final act, guys. It's the end of the movie, okay? So at the Stark Expo, Hammer unveils his drone army secretly controlled by Vanko, who now returns in a powerful new suit. The drones go rogue, attacking civilians, forcing Tony and Roadie to team up as Iron Man a war machine in a large-scale battle. They destroy the drones and confront Vanko directly. After a coordinated assault, they defeat him. Though he triggers a final self-destruct sequence before dying. In the aftermath, Tony stabilizes his health, repairs his relationships, and earns a level of trust from Nick Fury, solidifying his role in the Emerging Avengers initiative while accepting greater responsibility as both a hero and a sim. You know, I need to say something before we move ahead. You know, we never did talk about Nick Fury and them talking to Tony after that whole fight scene. Okay, that's that I'm glad you do we want to touch on that real quick before we touch upon this real quick. I freaking love that scene. I did too. I am gonna draw him sitting in that donut. As I am, I'm gonna draw it because it is so good. I love the funny. Yeah, yeah. And this is when we are very much revealed that Natasha Romanoff is here. Yeah. Which is like about time and yeah. You know, the character's been very boring up until this moment. Well, this is their kind of stays boring for a while.

SPEAKER_02 2:45:47

This is their world building time. Correct. Where they're shuffling. They already hinted at the very end, post-credit scene of Iron Man 1, that you're part of a bigger universe now. And now we're actually seeing glimpses of that bigger universe with the the director of SHIELD, Tony, or uh sorry, Nick Fury getting involved with Tony Stark and then sending in his top agent, arguably. Maybe. I don't know if I would say top over Maria Hill, but we'll find that out in Avengers. But it definitely is a closer confidant on to Nick Fury in Natasha Roman. Yeah. Um that she owes her whole life to Shield, that she says multiple times. So and she obviously she would have done better than Maria Hill in this situation because of how they wanted to portray him. They knew he read Tony and knew how to infiltrate him, get a sexy woman to go in there, be like a secretary type figure that he's gonna flirt with, but she's gonna remain on objective. And that's I think that's all they wanted of the character, and they delivered.

SPEAKER_01 2:46:48

I knew Yeah, she's pretty one note, you know, but I think it the note works, but it it almost is kind of like, man, for as prevalent as she becomes, I I felt a little let down at her entrance, but I but it makes sense why she's like this.

SPEAKER_02 2:47:01

I was just gonna say, I feel like this film is meant for her to be a one-note, but at the same time, future iterations of her, I don't see too many extra notes happening. Yeah, I'm I'm sorry, I don't mean to say that in any disrespect, Miss Johansson, but uh it's just there's I've changed my mind about her in this moment for sure.

SPEAKER_01 2:47:20

Go ahead, go ahead. Sorry.

SPEAKER_02 2:47:22

Yeah, there's there's uh Natasha Romanoff is such a complex character in and of herself, and she has a really good origin story that I don't think we've been able to see that well of a faithful adaptation execute of her story. And she does great for those ensemble events, definitely. The the solo stuff I think she could do good in. It's just I don't unfortunately for what we did see of one, it didn't it didn't live up to my expectations.

SPEAKER_01 2:47:50

It's a nice way to say and repeating the funny phrase like this isn't like Budapest doesn't create character building like they thought it was too show us Budapest, yeah, or at least more between them. Because there's times where you're kind of like, Are you a couple? Then like, oh wait, he's got a whole family. She might be uncomfortable the way he's talking with this woman here. You know what I mean? There's there's issues in it. I don't I I think they struggled with her through the whole thing, you know, and and I kind of like their turn they did with her Bruce, but then it never did they never really could follow through with it. Well, which I kind of wish it did, though.

SPEAKER_02 2:48:23

You know, when we get to Age of Ultron, that's where I'm gonna give my bigger, hotter take on Natasha Wolfnoff as a character, because at that point we've seen her in many different ways and iterations, and we can say, all right, at least for me, I can say this is how I feel about this character and how they're progressing her throughout the series.

SPEAKER_01 2:48:42

Yeah, but in this movie, you're right. I I've also I'm I'm gonna be changing the manager they have at the end because my first initial knee-drift reaction is oh man, they're still trying to figure out how to handle pretty women in the MCU. But I realized, but she's supposed to be this right now for Tony. Yeah, and because in where some of the jokes land a little flat later about her being sexy. It's okay though, because like earlier in the movie, the only way to infiltrate Tony is that and and that works because my favorite scene is one of my favorites, we'll talk about it soon.

SPEAKER_02 2:49:12

But yeah, it's uh yeah, and I I think I read this in your notes too, because when we were looking through a retrospective of other people talking about all these characters that came in. Scarlett Johansson even made the comment that she thinks she was too sexualized in the very first film. But also when you watch the movie and you see Tony's character, that's and we could confirm that was Kate Mara giving him the subpoena. Okay, good thing. But that is literally over here can kind of be a little sketchy. But um the um uh the whole thing of um the the women in this film that get Tony's attention. That is uh They're all sexualized. Yeah, yeah. Sorry, my brain is getting distracted because I forgot about the phone. Well, anyways, we're gonna get this figured out, folks. But it's okay. You're just kind of hanging out with us in our house too. So yeah, exactly. That was a spam risk, so we don't answer them anyways. Yeah, that's okay. Anyways, thank you for uh yeah, unless it says Feige, Kevin, on my caller ID. I'm not picking no, I'm just gonna anyways. Yes, thank you for um uh finding my train of thought there. She's the women that get Stark's attention are the sexual women. There are the physically attractive women because that's what Tony Stark is like. That's I that's one of my favorite scenes actually in the movie, is when he's googling now Natalie Rushman and pulling up, and he makes the whole table, the his iPad table, big picture of her like folk cover or whatever it was, something, some spreadsheet right next to Pepper Potts is supposed to be the love of his life for the rest of eternity. But even she's like, No, you can't have her. No. Yeah, he even says, I want one. I want one. She's like, No.

SPEAKER_01 2:51:03

And I love how she took it really well.

SPEAKER_02 2:51:05

She's like, Oh, I know.

SPEAKER_01 2:51:07

Yeah, we'll we'll talk because that scene will be talked about in her questionnaire. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:51:11

You're right.

SPEAKER_01 2:51:12

It's so it's so good.

SPEAKER_02 2:51:13

But yeah, that's uh and I'm glad actually when we're on this third act, I don't think it's one of my favorite moments of the third act, and I wrote down that scene in particular for Gar Black Widow. But, anyways, yeah, that's um I I agree with you. I well, you agree with me that I think this is a great way of yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:51:31

At first I thought it was a little distasteful, but as I think about it more and realize that, man, it it's it's she does she's probably done this a lot to a lot of people, you know. I mean, have to use her looks to get in deep to you know get what she has to get done. Tony's the best way to do it. Right, but he's not even oblivious to it though, because he even at first, even though she looks good, you can tell he's kind of like there's something about you though. He says it often, many times. Like, what are you hiding? Like, so Tony's not stupid, he still sees through the looks, but the looks got him distracted.

SPEAKER_02 2:52:00

Yeah, and that's that's why she was able to work. Yeah, you know, that's something a testament to the character and and in the film itself, because even when she's fixing up his face before the party, he easily could have just asked to do something really crazy because they're private in his bedroom. You know, who knows what he could have said.

SPEAKER_01 2:52:17

Yeah, but he knows there's more to this person.

SPEAKER_02 2:52:19

He just he just brought it back down to more of a personal level type thing, which is really smart on his behalf to do. And that was before he found out that was Black Widow. That was right before he found out it was Black Widow. Anyways, um, and that's one thing I'll say about um uh uh her first scene in the Avengers movie is she's very sexualized when she's being when she's tied up to the chair and how her her shirt looked and how everything was supposed to move when she was moving with the chair. That I know a lot of actors, actresses in particular would complain about some of those. Oh, the um in retrospect, that's not very good, but that's part of the type of character for Black Widow and the type of thing that you you google at men when they do stuff like this, too, when or goggle at men, however you want to say it when the Thor has is completely naked in one scene of love and thunder. Yeah. It's just that that's one of your assets as an actor, actress, or a character is your sexuality to a degree. And that's if that's how you get into fixing whatever objective it is, don't look back later and say, Oh, you should look back and say, guess what? I was that hot, I was able to take down a terrorist. You know, that's pretty cool.

SPEAKER_01 2:53:36

So that's just my well, it comes back down to that. Does it serve the character? Yes. Right. And and it's like if you're doing Snow White, then Snow White's not the ugliest girl around, right? Because the whole point of what she's asking her to do in the mirror and all that was to make me the finest. And oh, sorry, someone's more fine here, so we'll let's make her eat an apple. You know what I mean? Like it has to serve the character, and that's and she's a undercover, you know, black ops. Yep, you know, and the best way to get to some of these really nasty guys is through those those kind of ways. And if you don't think they're not doing that today, folks, you're very mistaken.

SPEAKER_00 2:54:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:54:14

It's very much so a very common practice amongst the you know, undercover secret kind of stuff that's going on, which does happen today.

SPEAKER_02 2:54:23

And there's a difference with mistreating someone because of their looks and underestimating someone because of their looks. And I think that's something that these films, at least these early-on films, definitely get right. And I think that the actors portraying these people need to say, hey, I will wear that sexy outfit for this scene. Does that serve the purpose of the character and what the role of the character is supposed to be for that film? Because that's okay to have that happen if it's serving, if it's not for an abuse situation, but it's more of an objective of this is what I'm gonna do with it.

SPEAKER_01 2:54:56

And on top of it, you get a sequence where you kick the shit out of like nine guys without breaking a sweat. Yeah. And it's got nothing to do with what you look like. So, like, yeah, you're not, you know, you're not, it's not like you're the damsel in distress that looks hot. Yeah. You're hot, but you're also kicking people.

SPEAKER_02 2:55:11

You're using it as a it's not just an objective point of view. Exactly. Anyways, so um, did this ending land for you?

SPEAKER_01 2:55:19

Yes, it did. Um I wish the fight between Ivan and them was a little longer. And he was a little more uh I wish it lasted longer. I wish it was a little more dire for them. Even though it did kind of feel that way at the same time, it had a little bit of a mix of both. So maybe I'm maybe I'm you know, or comparing oranges to apples here, but I kind of wish there was a longer fight between them and Ivan at the end. Um but I also liked that he was kind of kicking your butt too, you know. Um, and I liked his suit. I think the suit was cool, but I like the new power it all had, and I like the jokes. In the moments. I thought it was good and I like how they beat him. I'm trying to think here. Yeah, the drones worked for me. I think my first watching of this movie back in the day, I thought the drones was just a big CGI mistake and like a lot of just a reason to do this. But this time, I'm like, oh, this is this works. I like these a lot. There's a couple moments where I felt like it got a little silly thinking they'd be killing a lot more people if they were really just randomly shooting. But then once again, I gotta remember this is a Marvel movie, and it's not, we're not, you know, okay. We can assume a lot of people died, which is probably why we never see Hammer again because he's going to prison for life for being accompliced to the murder of lots of people. And once again, I took this whole ending as that's a terrorist attack. Like this is a terrorist attack by a guy again, it's just how random here he is. Um, yeah, I like I like this a lot. Um, in the very the very end, I I enjoyed this with how they end it. Um this is where I was glad this movie come back around. You know, I'm glad it did better than uh that fight scene between him and Roadie. You know, I even like that Roadie's in the suit and he can't control it. To me, that was a lot of fun because they added a little humor there. You know, and then then it also was the first time we see Tony open up his eyes to how it feels about Pepper. Because as soon as they see the bombs, the first thing he thinks is he's gotta go be her. Yeah. And I'm like, okay, this is where this that it's different moving on now from he's a woman eyes with him. If it comes down to it at that moment, what's the most important thing? I think for the first time it's her to him. Really, like in an action-wise, like when it comes down to actually taking action. And I think that that really speaks to what goes on moving forward, and it's a good progression, my opinion. And I like it, pepper taking control. I like that when she comes down and she's like called please, and he's like, oh no. But she's like, oh no, that's what you're step away. You know, she gets she gets all in his face, and it's like that's cool. She's not afraid of stuff. And I enjoy that about her. There's a lot more of her character build in this one than in all of the other movies put together. And and I kind of feel bad that that doesn't continue. But I would say the same thing about Roadie. This is the best we're ever gonna see, Tony and Roanie together, too, is in this movie. I'm not saying they're bad in the other movies either, but there's there's no more of that coparottery, it's gone. And in fact, you almost kind of forget their friends as you uh so but other than that, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:58:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:58:34

Um all right, so it did this ending land for me. Yes, it did. Um, I had a couple of issues, I would say person with the final scene, but it wasn't the the worst. And this is where I'm gonna talk a little bit about Justin Hammer.

SPEAKER_01 2:58:51

Oh, yeah. Uh you go first. I do have something to say about him. So you can't remind me, but go ahead.

SPEAKER_02 2:58:57

It's it's uh, and it's okay if you disagree with me on this one, but I he was one of those characters where part of me is thinking, How are you in the position that you're in? This is the best way I could describe that. Displaying Justin Hammer as kind of like this I wrote on here dumb, but mainly more naive, makes me wonder why he became the CEO of a weapons development company and not only became a CEO of a company like that, but how he obtained a government contract. And I get that maybe he attained it because of Stark pulling back all the weapons manufacturing that he was they were initially doing because they were on top of the world in the first movie, and so they're going to their competitor, which makes sense in a capitalist society. You're gonna find the the one that's gonna jive you the most. But they picked Hammer Industries, led by this dum dum, in my opinion. So, yeah. And honestly, for me, for Justin Hammer, the whole reveal in the beginning at the Senate hearing that Tony leaks out, he is helping them develop these same things to all of our adversaries. Like, this isn't like, oh, South Korea and England, he's giving some of these advices to. Some people you could questionably say, okay, there are allies, even though you have a US government contract. These are Pakistan and North Korea, the very same people that we in particular have a very bad relationship with, most of these adversarial countries. That alone, for me, in the very beginning of the movie, should have been like, that's the NGC of him. I I don't think the government will have allowed him to continue on with anything like that. But unfortunately, you see him for the rest of the movie. So that that didn't settle well for me personally speaking. It's one thing that footage got leaked out at the very end. Be like, all right, finally, we're putting you this guy down after what he did with Ivan and all that stuff. Plus, on top of it, he's breaching government trusts and contracts with going over to our adversaries trying to recreate these weapons. That's the problem. That's my point of view on that. Um, and that also could show just how naive the American government is portrayed in this film, too. But um, anyways, in my opinion, he doesn't have too much to do with the movie other than being a front for Ivan's takeover. So I I brush some of that to the side a little bit. Otherwise, I'd have a lot more issues with the third act. Um so that's my my just on Justin Hammer. Do you want to jump in there on him?

SPEAKER_01 3:01:30

Yeah, we're about well, I'm almost there with you with him. Where I agree 100% is he doesn't come off as smart as we want him to think he is. Um I do think he is, though. Uh I just think they made the mistake of not showing us enough. I think he knows his weapons. I think he's that guy. And he tells that reporter in the beginning when they're at the Grand Prix, that once Tony was off the scene, is when he was able to pick up. So you are correct in that he was kind of the second and he never was gonna get it unless Tony walked away. Yeah. So, but he was the next best option. No, I never got the impression when Tony, when they were doing the thing in the hearing, I thought that that was just footage of him trying to make a suit. I don't remember it being footage of him trying to make it for bad people. I know he's shown other countries trying to do it, but I think he was just also showing Hammer was trying and he couldn't be in there. I didn't get the impression that he was selling, even though he obviously would be selling to the W media. Now that we know him personally, I don't think he ouded him though in this thing.

SPEAKER_02 3:02:31

We well, I think we from my understanding of it, and we could rewatch it to confirm. And ladies and gentlemen, if you're listening to this, please write in the comments below what actually happened.

SPEAKER_01 3:02:40

Was it him showing him doing the suit for bad people, or was it just a video of him trying to make a suit?

SPEAKER_02 3:02:47

Because I remember there's two different things, you know what I mean? Like I remember Tony showing footage that it said North Korea, it said like Pakistan, all that. Then it said, oh wait, there's Justin Hammer in the footage. And Justin Hammer's trying to put his hand up to it as the one guy turns and breaks himself, which I believe was an adversarial thing.

SPEAKER_01 3:03:04

So or adversarial uh I'm gonna have to re-read because I was always under the impression that was just him showing the his own footage.

SPEAKER_02 3:03:11

Well, but either way, if that was if that was what it was, and right at least how they played it in the montage. My first impression was like, oh, that guy's already toast now. Tony just took him right now. But they obviously didn't make that ramification for the piece of the film.

SPEAKER_01 3:03:25

So, anyways. But yeah, I uh one of you know, we'll get to it later about one of my favorite scenes. I love that scene when he's showing the weapons to them. I know, I know there's a controversy, and I know I I I feel you feel differently about it, which we'll talk about. But I I think he's got a good spot in this movie. I think he's the right actor for that role because he's a funny guy, but he can also be very serious and dangerous. The problem is at this time in his career, they didn't see that side of him in other movies yet. Sam Rockwell now is good at playing that funny guy who also can play a very serious, bad or or very questionable character. And I think maybe they were afraid of doing that. And I don't, and I think that they needed to lean more into that. If we had a couple scenes of him doing something right and correct and big, you know, or oh, that's something Hammer did do right or did get right, then I think we'd feel a little differently about how smart he was. But yes, this definitely does come off. It's like it's like we only see the side of Hammer in this movie as the side that you would try to hide if you were a bad guy. We don't see the actual front that he puts on, because the only moments we get with him is behind the scenes with the bad guy. Yeah, so he comes off as that ridiculous. You know, we we don't see him. The only time we do see him act the way he's gonna act, like as he's presenting, is when he is presenting the guns. And when he's talking there, he sounds competent, funny, but competent. Like what he's talking to. Yeah, but he's also funny, which is what that character does, that actor does well. And I enjoy that part of him. But like when he's with Ivan, you think he's talking to some guy like a like off the street. Yes, like a hobo type thing. Yeah, which is okay if we knew the other side of him, right? Yeah, because Ivan's definitely gonna be smarter than him, but at some point you think he's gonna be like, yeah, a little smarter than Ivan. I don't mind him being funny, but it seems like they lean on the funny part of it more than where's the intelligence of it, you know. Yes. Until the end. Then at the end, when he looks at it and says, You'll see me real soon. There's a moment there where you're kind of like, oh man, that's the most serious, yes, actual, like this guy might be a problem. And then we never see him again, folks. Yeah. Which is it would make sense because he's probably in prison for life for treason and all sorts of stuff. But it's too bad because there's that's a missed opportunity for later, right? Because he could be a great, you know, villain to bring up again later, or he's someone involved, lame somehow. Guy agree, yeah, just gone. I think I don't think he's bad enough to get rid of. I just think that they were, I think they were more careful about how to handle it. And they put all their eggs in on Ivan, which didn't hurt because I like I said, I like the villain. Ivan is a villain in this way more than I did before. But I just I do wish they put a little more depth to handle, you know. I wouldn't go as far as is not liking it as much as you are right now, but yeah, at the same time. But once again, we saw in that court or the Senate room scene two differently as well. Yeah. So I think I think we need to look at that again just to have that conversation because I I always thought that it was just footage of him at his facility and he can't make it. Yeah, I never took it as him selling it to the to the bad guys. So I might be, I might be wrong. If that's the case, I might agree with you a lot. So we'll go from here.

SPEAKER_02 3:06:46

All right. Well, uh another part of the ending, I love seeing Tony and um really team up to fight the drones. Yeah, I I agree with you in the in the beginning when I first saw this from what I remember a long time ago seeing it. I thought drones really, but as I'm watching this film, I'm thinking, okay, I can I can see what could get behind what they're trying to do with it. So um uh I did think that their chemistry, even on the battlefield, worked really together. So that's really cool to find that pairing and you got it there. And I think that that's what started for me liking the Iron Man series is seeing not only as Pepper and Tony got good chemistry, but Tony and Rhody have good chemistry, and Iron Man and War Machine have good chemistry. I love all that stuff. Um I was worried personally when Vanco was putting on the a suit for there are two things that stuck out to me that are initially are what put me didn't settle well for me out, I would say about that. One is I don't like the character trope of repeating a villain from the past. And that was one of my worries they would do with this film, and they they teetered on it. I wouldn't say they did a full-on thing with it, but it was enough where I'm like, I kind of wish I saw him do it without putting on a suit, especially when he goes through this whole spiel of you don't need suits. What's his exact words? Drunk better. And then he comes out in an Iron Man-looking suit. And so part of me was worried when I first saw him appear in the suit, and I'm thinking, oh no, are we repeating warmonger from the first film? That was my first thought. Yeah, it it didn't end up similar, which I'm thankful for when it came to his demise and all that stuff. But there were uh part of me was like, is this a repetitive thing? That's the one thing I'll say about the Flash TV show from CW, and I like the Flash TV show, don't get me wrong, but what lost my interest with it is the whole series was I'm the fastest man alive, but there's someone faster than me this season, so I have to beat him and he's doing bad things. After the third season of the same repetitive thing, you've lost my interest because I've seen this before. It's just a new version of it, and so that's what worries me when you get bad guys and they have this one specific thing for their adversary is I'm gonna do what the other guy did, but in my own version. I'm thinking I want to see something a little more unique every time. That's just my opinion. And I would even go so far, and then we're gonna do retrospective on Iron Man 3, but they almost fall into that same trap again in Iron Man 3 to a degree, and it's different. So I'll give them that. Not different in the way I would have liked, but whatever. Um, we'll get there when I can have a more refresh to my. But that was one of my worries. And the second worry I would say about that um that I'll touch upon is there is a Marvel or an Iron Man villain, a classic Iron Man villain called the Crimson Dynamo from Russia, which where Ivan is from, that has a suit very similar to what he puts on there. And so my first thought was is this a hybrid of whiplash and a crimson dynamo just in one person? Parmi is thinking, well, now you just robbed of both the characters of something unique about them. And we haven't seen or heard of Crimson Dynamo in the rest of the MCU thus far, which he potentially could come as a villain still, because they didn't establish that character in particular. Right. But Parmi's wondering, is that what they did in this film to up whiplash from like a C tiered villain to maybe let's make him more of a B-tier villain by adding two C tier villains or a B and a C tier villain together in one. So that was one of my just for a comic accuracy point of view, uh a little worrisome for me.

SPEAKER_01 3:10:35

I'm okay with that kind of stuff because not all villains are gonna be able to hold up a movie.

SPEAKER_02 3:10:39

That's very true.

SPEAKER_01 3:10:40

So whiplash as just whiplash wouldn't make as much sense in the in the live action as it would on page. You know, because I think whiplash, if he didn't have the suit, it would have been just like the first fight they had on that he had at the racetrack. And then that's when I realized I kind of need something. You know what I mean? Like it's like I just kind of screwed up. And I always took him telling Hammer drones are better than suits only only to trick hammer so you can control the drones. Yes, that's I never took that as as him thinking that that's true. I think he just told him that, so he had complete control over those things. That makes much more sense, actually. Yeah, yeah. And so I think this was him tricking hammer into that bull crap. You know what I mean? But yeah, uh, I'm with you. It did feel almost like man, this kind of repeats, but it kind of also felt like a build on. Yeah. And the whole movie is about the accessibility of the suit. So it's like another example of, hey, look, this guy, look what he did, you know. In fact, the fact that there's no follow-up to that later on bothers me more so. Because then we just cut then we just enter a world where, yeah, you know what, you were wrong, Tony, but we're still just gonna let you have it. Yeah. If anything, there's more reason to take it from him. Yeah. But they don't do that, they move away from him. For the same fear, I think that you've had with fairs, they don't wear the paint. Yeah. Which may have been okay, really. But if you think about it, you know, logically, then yeah, yeah, we need to take this technology away. There's bad guys making it. We just had hundreds of people get killed at Expose as well. Yeah. With these things, you know, with that technology. So yeah, it's kind of silly how that doesn't get followed up on well.

SPEAKER_02 3:12:28

That was that was my two cents on that. Other than that, it didn't ruin the the ending for me. As a matter of fact, I gave this when we could send the scoring for the ending much more favorable than I thought maybe it could have deserved. But I just meet it was uh it was good. I also would say I do love that Tony admits his flaws at the very end, but he stands his ground saying that I am Iron Man, you know. Even though Nick Fury doesn't want him to be part of the Avengers initiative, he says, Well, too bad. If you want my stuff, you're getting me too. Yeah, you know, and I like that too. That's very good, very good character development for him uh after this whole VR.

SPEAKER_01 3:13:04

That's actually my best moment.

SPEAKER_00 3:13:06

Awesome. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 3:13:07

So you can go on with that if you want. Because I'm I'm good. That's my I love that ending. Like him, yeah. That whole, well, you're not, yeah. You're we can't have you because you're crazy. Yeah, well, without you can't have my stuff though.

unknown 3:13:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:13:20

So I was kind of like, oh shit, you know. Okay, I guess. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 3:13:25

Like so, I kind of I like I like that aspect of it. Well, my best moment in act three is the black widow scene. Yeah, great scene. And I'm gonna tell you uh why that is my favorite, is that it shows for Scarlett Johansson's character in Natasha Romov that the whole film, she's a pretty face. But at this, you get one kick butt scene of she's not just a pretty face, she is the black widow that we know from the comics. If they had taken this scene out and just left it as that, I would have been disappointed in Black Widow's. Agreed. Because it's one thing to introduce her and she's this sexy HR secretary that they made her look out to be your girl from Legal or whatever. But um then to really show her true colors later on, not just walking in in the suit in the donut shop, but actually utilizing the suit and showing her ability. Wow, it's so funny. Happy thinks he's got the upper punch. He's like, I gotta, he's doing everything and give it to Happy. I wouldn't be able to do some of the stuff that Happy could do, like and walk away from it feeling okay enough. Yeah, yeah. But he was so happy, he's like, I got him, and all of a sudden the guy's hanging and everyone's down. Yeah, you're like, it's good stuff, it's good stuff right there. So for for that reason, she is kind of like a almost a breakout character for me in the film and next to Roadie, in my opinion. And I love that scene a lot. That is probably one of my favorite Black Widow scenes of all the MCU to me. Yeah, yeah. So uh That's up there.

SPEAKER_01 3:14:52

That that that's definitely in the problem in the article.

SPEAKER_02 3:14:54

If we get to retrospect more each film that she's in, I'll tell you, okay, this tops are or no, that's still a little bit better.

SPEAKER_01 3:15:00

And at the very end, we'll do our definitive list.

SPEAKER_02 3:15:03

Yes. That'll be part of it. So you keep track of it too, ladies and gentlemen. All right. Um, what's your biggest issue?

SPEAKER_01 3:15:10

Uh my biggest issue w would be the hammer stuff. Um and uh I I put on there I didn't I think uh was the uh I wish the fight at the end was a little more dire. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 3:15:24

I can agree to what you said there. I didn't know. It felt a little anticlimatic at the end.

SPEAKER_01 3:15:28

There was a fight at least.

SPEAKER_03 3:15:30

Yeah. Other than what I already said about act three and what worked and didn't work for me, there wasn't uh the other thing I could touch on.

SPEAKER_02 3:15:37

Was a climax earned for you? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:15:39

100%. Yep. I like him figuring it out. I like them figuring the whole thing out. I like what Ivan did to all the things. I like how they I I really think it all felt uh realistic in the scenario that they're in. Yeah. Yeah. All right.

SPEAKER_02 3:15:52

So what is your score? Same thing for me.

SPEAKER_03 3:15:55

I it's uh uh I thought it was earned too. Yeah, what is your score? Eight out of ten. Okay. Mine's night out, it's hot. Okay. It's high. It's high. It's good though. It's high. Okay. Alright, so we'll move on to some of these other parts uh quickly here.

SPEAKER_02 3:16:14

Post-credit scene. Yes, post-credit scene. I forgot about that. That's my favorite, actually. Alright, so what happens is Agent Phil Carlson arrives in the desert near, I'm gonna mess this up. Parente Antigu. Yeah. Something like that. I'm sorry for anyone who knows how to pronounce that. If I greatly mispronounce it, but after leaving Tony earlier in the film, he calls Nick Fury to report that they have found, quote, it, and the camera reveals Mjolnir, Thor's hammer, embedded in a creator. So Yeah, awesome. The purpose? Set up the next film, of course. Of course. And does it pay off? Yeah. Make you know, this is a good example, I'm gonna say, of an excellent post-credit scene that not only pays off in the next film, but because an essential part of the next film. Yep. Because this uh creed. We're we're gonna Thor is our next episode, by the way, so y'all stay tuned for that. But this post-credit scene shows the hammer, and then there's a whole scene in the Thor movie of getting a freaking hammer out of this crater. And so I love that this not just a tease of the next film, but an actual tease of the next big scene that happens in the MCU that we can see and watch. So that is very cool. And uh how important is this? I would say very yeah, huge. Yeah. Introducing, I wrote on here introducing on new flavors of the MCU that we haven't as an audience at this point experienced yet, and also showing it's assembling a bigger universe than what we're agreed.

SPEAKER_01 3:17:48

That I was gonna say the same thing. It's this is uh you know, we've had the Hulk and that's like a that's a that's a unexplainable thing and all that thing is a monster, but this is like this is store. This we got Asgard coming. I mean, this is like we're talking about bringing gods into this. Yeah, like this is gonna be it. Another realm other than Earth, and how does that relate? Right. It's almost a morbidly works in its own way because it's half, I can't wait to see it. And then it's half if Marvel's gonna screw up, this is where they screw up. Yeah. Because now it's like when you get this big, this is where you're gonna screw up, right? They didn't. So this is where they say we'll go back.

SPEAKER_02 3:18:25

I completely indicates to me, and we're gonna talk about in the Thor movie too, but in the future, once they see the Thor was successful in introducing a new flavor to the MCU, they were all right, let's do Gardens of the Galaxy and push it even further. And it's great to see how they're reacting to them, and it's building a bigger universe, but also keeping it tasteful where they know, oh, if this messes up, we're done. We have we can't do that again, at least. That's right. And thankfully, they've been able to really get good pull-offs. So my score is 10 out of 10 for a post-credit. Yeah, I'm same, 10 out of 10. All right, awesome. All right, deep dives. Best performance for you. The best performance of the movie for me.

SPEAKER_00 3:19:08

Um mine's a cliche, but yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:19:15

Yeah, yeah. I'm gonna say I'm gonna have to say Robert Donna Jr. Um, if I had to pick a I only say that because he really is good in this one. Like there's there's some, it's funnier. There's he's balancing a lot of different stuff at once, and he made and he makes stuff like like you alluded to in the very beginning, that felt like there's too much going on. He made it feel like it was easy to do. Yes. Um I do have to say though, I think Mickey Rourke, though, is real good in his performance. But I'm gonna say best performance. If I got a pick, Robert Don Jr.

SPEAKER_02 3:19:48

Yep. Okay. I I for the same exact reasons you did, uh Robert Don Jr. Yeah, that's tough because there's a lot of good stuff going on in this book. Oh, a lot. Yeah, and he is better in this one than he was the first one, but he was able to build off of that momentum and he maintained it, which isn't perfect. My most surprising performance, I'm gonna say, is Don Cheeto because it's his first entry into the shoes of someone else that's no longer there in MCU. And so sometimes it could be a hit or miss. But like I said in my review of Iron Man One, I do think Don Cheeto was the better of the two war machines, and I uh watching this film re-emphasized that for me that I liked him. So you'll I I put him as a surprise performance.

SPEAKER_01 3:20:27

Yeah, I I this one is shared. I have to split it between two. It's Don Cheadle for for one, because he he filled big shoes in Terrence Howard, and he actually was able to expand the character real quickly and very fast, like made you didn't make you feel like he wasn't replacing somebody. You just okay, he's got this, he's in, we don't care. Yeah, but let's move on, you know. And honestly, if the roles were reversed and Don Cheadle was first and Terrence took over, you we'd see the same thing. That's how that's how close of good of actors both these guys are. I just happen to think Terrence Howard could carry a movie on his own, is the only difference. I know Don would at me. And I don't want Don to think that because I love Don. Don't stuff great movies. Actually, him and Terrence run a movie called Crash Together. Phenomenal movie, great movie. And they're great in it together. I don't think they have one scene together, but they're great in it together.

SPEAKER_02 3:21:17

Um, anyway. So, Marvel, you're gonna have to prove us wrong by giving us premiere tickets to Don Cheeto's War Machine movie once Armor Wars when it actually comes out and it's already done.

SPEAKER_01 3:21:27

Bring it up. Yep. Anyways, and uh, but I also do Nicky Rourke, man. Do not underestimate that guy's a weird fella. He's a weird, he's a weird human being. I think he's a lovely person though, but he definitely has some issues in his life. Um, and I think that he did a very good job in this movie with no matter who he was with, he took control of the scene. And I didn't feel that way the first time I saw this movie, but after watching it twice now this week, I'm just like, man, I underestimated how much I really like him in this role. And he plays it so well, just this very unhinged, but calm. Like you almost feel like you could be his friend. You know, like he gives you that whole, like we're we could be buddies, but I'll break your neck if I gotta, and you don't see it coming. And I think that that's what I like about him is that he is unstoppable in that sense. But like he's so calm where you think, ah, you could he gives you that false hope of like, you know, oh, we could I could negotiate with this guy. No, you can't, yeah, but you really can't in the long run, you could, you know. And but you know, at the same time, maybe you could, and that's the funny thing because like he really is only after Tony, and he'll do anything to what he has to do to get there. I think he portrays that real well.

SPEAKER_02 3:22:43

Yeah. So all right. So I'm gonna prep this next one is weakest performance. I'm gonna start off with a little caveat in the beginning. I do not think this movie had many, if any, weak performances. Gotcha. I'm gonna say that right off the bat, but because we have the question, I have to put on the list, I had to list in my head a tier of the best performances all the way to what I thought was was the weakest, just based on that. But this is no indication of the actor himself for this one in particular. I did put Mickey to work for it, only because he kind of was not my cup of tea. But he did, and it's funny, if this was the best character, I he would not be on that list there. He would definitely be higher. I actually would have put probably Justin Hammer lower on that just because of how they portrayed him as a character compared to what they could have done with him. But um I only put him as the weaker performances because he wasn't too much of my cup of tea, but um it uh I don't have anything bad to say about the performance.

SPEAKER_01 3:23:41

Yeah. So what's yours? So this was tough for me because once again, nobody in this did bad. Uh but we gotta be honest, there's one that didn't do as good as the others, right? And you have to pick one. So you're kind of looking through all, oh my god. Like when I I could say Justin Hammer, but then but that's also the character problem. And well, it was written for him. Yeah. Because what he did was fine. That's what I had in that same thoughts. And and the same with Mickey Roar, there's things that you don't like about him, but I think what he did with what he's got was fine. Uh so if I had to pick one out of the group that it's because she didn't have a lot to say. It's gonna be Black Widow. I'm gonna have to go with Scarlett Johansson, but it's only because she did fine with what was written. And unfortunately what was written was not a lot for her. And and I'm not basing it off of the fact that I think she was sexualized, because I don't think she was. I'm basing it off the fact is that she just kicked a lot of butt, and that's great. You know, but it wasn't a big stretch acting-wise there, right? So I think that that's my problem. She's already pretty. She kicked a lot of butt. Where's the acting? You know, I don't know. We we get more later, obviously. Yeah. I'm not saying she's bad at all, like, because it's she's great. Oh, yeah. But in this movie particular, there's not much there to go with. So I gotta pick her for only guys for logical reasons, not because I actually think she's bad. Like, so yeah, that's that's where I am with it.

SPEAKER_02 3:25:20

All right. So the last part of this deep dive real quick is um missed opportunities or also known as wasted potential. We added this one in. We didn't have in the first Iron Man um movie review, but I think we add that in the second movie review we did for incredible. Oh, yep. So um I put on there Justin Hammer, in particular Justin Hammer, but I did put Ivan Vanco on it too. As we're doing a talk about this, I can forgive the Ivan part of things a little bit more, so I see a little bit more of why they're doing with that version of the character. So, okay. I'd even wipe that off of my thing, but Justin Hammer definitely is still a missed opportunity there. Yeah. In in the fact that he was, they made him a little too comedical, comical, too hilarious, so to speak, where he wasn't taken from me as serious as he probably should have been. And if they it's good to keep the comedy in there because that's it's part of his character, I get it. But also have a fine balance, like you said, we only saw one face of him mostly in a movie. Where if we saw the more business end of things, we can see a little more how his brain would work, then maybe a little more menacing of a of a rivalry between him and Tony Star.

SPEAKER_01 3:26:35

Or at least his intelligence. Because you and I are we're on the same page with him. Yes. And I I if if he would at least had seen a few couple moments of why he's who he is, and not and and you could have kept every bit of the comedy in there, but there wasn't a lot of scenes of his intelligence, you know, and that that I think that's a missed opportunity. Yeah. Well, is yours? Is that that? It's his yeah, I Justin Hammer. Yeah, I I'm not with you on Ivan, though. I'm I I actually think that that he was perfect for that. But but yeah, with Justin Hammer, though, yeah, that I was that was my first thought. I kind of changed my mind on the Ivan thing as I understand this movie too, because now I'm getting it. Well, you changed my mind on Black Widow because I was about to hammer on her heart, and then like, yeah, you know what? I I've I gotta react that.

SPEAKER_02 3:27:20

So yeah, same thing with me, because my first reaction uh to Ivan was like, oh, really, this and all that. But as we're talking him through and we're doing these type of videos, which that's why we watch these, and you guys watch and listen to these too, our audience, because um it's it gives you a different perspective of what you initially thought of something. Yeah, and it's good to change your mind about something. Yes, because not always are you're right, it's part of the life. Yeah, like anyways. So this next section is direction and production. For me personally, when it comes to this section, I go through this really fast because unless it's very apparent that there's a problem there or very good, I don't need to touch upon it so much. So for director style and vision, I thought it was good. Um, cinematography and visuals, good, action good, improved since the first film. CGI, good, especially for the times. Um, and music, non-remarkable. Other than I will say the ACDC style of music definitely fits a Tony Stark's character.

SPEAKER_01 3:28:17

Yep. I agree with uh all of that. I will say this just to kind of caveat it, just so it just doesn't feel like a throwaway section for us. Because right now it is kind of when it's just when it's just hits bar, it's like, what do we got to say about it, right? Yeah. Um, I will say that the CGI was a little lesser for me, and especially in the scene where they fought in his house. It was very no a couple moments looked like yeah, it kind of looked a little weird. It almost almost looks well AI does right now. And um music, yeah. I mean, come on, we need we need a score, man. What's going on here? And uh the cinematography is just bland, and the director style is good, but this is why though we got a different director for Iron Man 3. Because we needed something different and a different kind of pace and feel. Because whatever we talk about when it comes down to Iron Man 3, the problem Iron Man 3 is not the director, and that's why Iron Man does any saving grace to Iron Man, it was who they got to direct it, or to Iron Man 3 at least. I would say I love John Favreau, I think he's a very smart guy, but I I also wish he had a little bit more of an artistic side of him that showing through because it's it's hard to tell when it's a movie he's directed or somebody else's. I like it when you see a movie and you can see the sound print of a director. Like, oh, that guy, that's a that's a that guy's movie. You know, you can tell that this guy made this movie. I'd personally think that that's smart. And I'm not saying John's a bad, bad uh movie creator or content creator, he's fantastic. He just doesn't have anything that makes me go, that's definitely John. So you know. So that's what I'll say is it's just this works now, but it wouldn't work more.

SPEAKER_02 3:29:52

All right, so I'm this comes to our hot takes real quick. Yep. On this, um, I initially had two, but I re-evaluated the one that I thought was the bigger hot take because I, as we've gone through this, I'm kind of a little corrected on that. Personally, my own change of mind on it. Uh, I will say that um Scarlett Johansson would not be my first pick as Black Widow. Interesting. So, and I say that so a little bit of a history for Iron Man 2, too. The original casting for Black Widow was Emily Blunt, but she was contractually opened on another film that she desperately says, even to this day, she wished she could have gone out. Because one, it failed at the box office, and two, this was the role she would have wanted for uh starting off another career hit for her. Emily Blunt's a great actress, but hot take on that, I wouldn't have cast Emily Blunt either, personally for me. So it just so happened to be to Scarlett Johansson's best interest that Emily couldn't do it. So Scarlett Johansson was the next picked. I think she did a great job. I'm not diminishing her acting in this role, and as we've talked about already, I think she did very, very well for her introduction to the MCU, and she's continued to hold that uh stance as being one of those top-tier actors throughout the rest of the film franchise. But I would have casted Mila Hopich. Holfich? Holovich, I'm not sure if I'm pronouncing it right. The the woman from the Resident Evil franchise. And I'll tell you why. To me, she looks a little more of the Russian um Natasha Romanoff. She's very beautiful and smart. She obviously could do the action scene, so you don't have to worry about that. And the thing I would say about her, and I'm sorry, Scarlett Johansson, I don't mean to say this in a bad way at all. She has when I can see this actress, Mila, in two different lights, either very sexy or very plain Jane. And that's actually, in my opinion, that's a great tool to have. Because when you need Black Widow to be that sexy assassin, you can have it. When you need her to be undercover, you can have that too. And you can see, in my opinion, more of a radical difference than what you see of Scarlett Johansson. And I'm I don't mean that in disrespect. You do great in the role, and I love what you've done with it. I'm not gonna say anything bad about that part, but initially going into this film, had I been in the casting director's chair, I would have tried to get someone like her in that film. Alright. How bad was it? What's your thoughts?

SPEAKER_01 3:32:25

No, I you know, I don't have a hot take this time, folks. Um because my mind was swayed. Uh, but I will have to say, your hot take at first was kind of like, man, that's something else. But as you're talking, I'm convinced, you know. Um Milla uh she was one of my first Hollywood crushes, so I have to admit that right off the bat. And she's a better actress than Scarlett. The thing with Scarlett that doesn't set right with me is she's such a memorable kind of face in a way, where the undercovenness of it and all that seems like people are gonna start to know who you are. When with Milla, I think you could have gotten away with she could be more of a chameleon and more of an average fit-in kind of person. It's almost like Scarlet's too pretty. You know what I mean? Where it's like, wait a minute, your Russian hooker looks a lot like the last one I had that stole all my stuff. You know what I mean? Like that stole all our stuff out of the safe. Like it's like, wait a second. It's like, but with the other, I mean, I don't know, this sounds awful. I'm not, I don't want to bring it, it's not about looks 100%. But when you're undercover and you're hiding your secret and you're supposed to pretend to be different people, it looks have a lot to do with it, folks. So I think Mela would have been more of a chameleon in that. I I with that said though, I like Scarlett Johansson as play.

SPEAKER_02 3:34:01

I agree. And if I had gotten my way and gotten her in this film, it would have changed how we would have used Black Widow for the rest of the films because I feel like I feel like, especially Winter Soldier, which I'm gonna tell you very quick, maybe a hot take. I think it's her best role as Black Widow in that film. Personally, when we get there, we'll get there. Yeah, but um it would have changed how Black Widow would have been in that film. And I don't want to think change how Black Widow was in that film, in my opinion. So it definitely would have made a different look for the MCU for that character in particular, but I still do like her as that act as that casting device had to pick an alternative.

SPEAKER_01 3:34:40

Yeah, I do too. Yeah, that's a good pick because she's good, because she kicks ass too. Like she has she's shown that in Resident Evil, but also uh if you've ever seen a fifth element, she has kicks a lot of ass in that too. So she and she's a great actress. Um and she has the range. So it's a hot take because I think it would have changed the character fundamentally.

SPEAKER_03 3:35:00

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 3:35:00

Um, and I like Scarlet, even like what we've gotten, that wouldn't change it now that we have it.

SPEAKER_03 3:35:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:35:06

Um, but it's not it's not completely like, you know, it's not like you said Rosie and Donald. You know? It's like that'd have been a hot take. Actually, yeah, actually, Sammy, I'm gonna have to tell you, I think a better black widow would have been, oh, I don't know, Meryl Streep or less. I think a black better black widow would have been uh oh, what's her name? Uh whoopy Cold. Why not? See, to me that would have been a little worse. That's what you didn't go that far. Well, you didn't go that you didn't go as far as any of them. So we're good. You know, Betty White should have been white. Just a CGI in Betty White this whole time.

SPEAKER_02 3:35:43

So that would have been a more drastic.

SPEAKER_01 3:35:50

That would have been a drastic hot take. Yeah, it is a hot take, though. I get it. But it definitely didn't floor me like I thought it would. So especially while you're talking about it, really made me go, boy, if you put the person you picked is what is what did it, you know, because I wouldn't know who to pick. I would have had to do a long, lot longer thought process on who to pick for that. And so I'm glad you guys picked up.

SPEAKER_02 3:36:11

But see, at this point, this is the very first appearance of her. And I'm always like I've said before in this podcast, that you have the source material of the characters are written right there. So all you're basically doing, just like Samuel L. Jackson for Nick Fury, you're picking someone who not only could look the park, but act the park the best you can for that interpretation. And Mila to me, Mila, Mila, I'm not sure how to pronounce it. Sorry, I love you to death. That's why I'm picking you. Um, I would have picked her because she looks, looks, and I think can act the way that black widow is portrayed in the comics.

SPEAKER_01 3:36:46

Yeah. Now I want a supercut though of uh Betty White and his black widow in all the scenes. If someone's made it on top of that, yeah, someone who has a good AI platform, let's make that. Let's do a couple. I want to just put her in the place of Scarlett Johansson scenes and let's just just to see what it looks like. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:37:10

Uh quick fire questionnaire. Yes. All right. Um, answer fast. Don't overthink it, says here. Best scene of the movie, in your opinion.

SPEAKER_01 3:37:18

I got two. Uh one's my favorite, one is the actual best. Um, I freaking love it when he when Hammers given his thing with the weapons. I love that scene. It's hilarious. It's the only time we see any kind of intelligence out of the guy, for one. And for two, when he pulls up the little missile and he goes, I call it the ex-wife. I think it's funny. He just it just hammers in. I like that they're just like stone faced and he's reacting to them, acting that way. I I think that it just shows how funny Sam Rockwell is. And and it actually highlights the misopportunity that with him, to be honest. Um, but honestly, the real best scene is I love that when he when he discovers a new element, when he pulls the thing around and he's got the reg and he's doing his thing, and the music's playing, and it makes it to me that's just this is Iron Man as Iron Man gets. So those are my two picks. There's lots of other ones that are good that is in a you know some that you're gonna bring up one that I would agree with 100%, but I needed to pick some at least different, and it and it doesn't work for me.

SPEAKER_02 3:38:17

I have one that's my best scene in my favorite scene, I should say, in the movie. Um, Tony Stark discovering more about his dad and also speaking to the emotional part of Tony that we will later appreciate and realize he has the same qualities as his dad, because even though his dad is gone, and a lot of us like just think, oh, we're not gonna be like our parents in certain ways that we don't like or appreciate. It's just part of our DNA that we're naturally prone to that stuff. I know that in my personal life that um I was like uh 18, 17, 18 when I lost my dad and our dad. And there are qualities that my mom has always said, Oh, that's just like your father. And I didn't even know about those qualities. Yeah. Um, even personal taste type thing, she's like, Oh, that's definitely from your dad. So I when I saw that he actually has footage of his dad that says, I do love you and I care about you, and you are the one who's gonna make things right for this company and for the world at large. Yeah, I love that scene. He's his greatest creation, he said. Yeah, yeah, so greatest creation. And then we see that pay off so well in Endgame when he actually comes face to face with his dad from that same time period. That's just it's just chef's kiss right there.

SPEAKER_01 3:39:25

Yeah, oh yeah, it's the brilliant stuff.

SPEAKER_02 3:39:27

Anyways, my least favorite scene, I'll say, is the one that you put as one of your favorite scenes, but it's a similar reasoning that he has just in different spots. The Justin Hammer showing off his weapons, I put it in my least favorite as it's not needed because in my opinion, he's not wrong. That scene, the way that we got Justin Hammer throughout the whole show, the whole movie, that scene wasn't needed. Had we gotten that version of Justin Hammer that we saw in there where he actually can talk military great weapons and have his comedic sense of uh style that. Same time throughout the whole movie, yeah. Keep that scene. But other than that, I could watch this movie about that scene, and there's no consequences to that. So I'm like, nah, not needed. Gotcha. Hey, that's a great argument.

SPEAKER_01 3:40:09

Yeah. I love it still.

SPEAKER_02 3:40:11

Favorite villain moment.

SPEAKER_01 3:40:13

I when he first comes out, when his I love that his thing burns his shirt off, and he just that entire sequence with him, and he does the the cross whip. And like I he, there's a moment when you're watching that movie while he's doing the cross whip, you see him like, oh, this man is scary, and his effects look the best they did in the whole movie. Yeah, right there. That's my favorite moment of him is his first attack on Tony and the racetrack. By far one of my favorite moments is in the movie. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:40:42

Well, well, mine I would put and forget the first part because I changed my mind on it. But my my um best villain moment was when he hacked the drones to start terrorizing everybody just to go after Tony Stark because that really showed that his intellect was definitely higher than Justin Hammers. Wasn't too hard, I feel like, in this movie. And he wasn't just a brute either. But he wasn't just a brute, yeah. He actually was smart enough he could hack into drones and do that stuff. And also played back to an earlier scene that he alone was able to create that same art reactor where all these other companies, including Justin Hammers, was trying to do and kept failing at. And yeah, Tony is smarter than him because he created with lesser materials and under the pressure of his life, whereas Ivan didn't have that, but it still showed his intellect that he is smart enough to make the same thing. So I feel like that also played in a little bit of my wasted potential moment. If I want to see him see that part of him, more of a uh technologically um intelligence-wise fight between the both. Gotcha, we just didn't get that much to a degree. But, anyways, all right, your most punchable face.

SPEAKER_01 3:41:46

That seminar band needs it right to the right to the amen. Right to the puss, just poo. He does everything. He even insults him with a smile. And yeah, I just want to like I just want to punch you in the face. And it's even later, he's not even consistent with how he feels. He's behind it looks good, right? He has that face, yeah. That needs it.

SPEAKER_02 3:42:07

Yeah, it's it's that face is so non-expressive combined with that greedy attitude and you just want to punch him in the face. It's just like, oh my gosh. He's just screaming for a punch.

SPEAKER_01 3:42:20

Yeah, he's yeah, punch that guy.

SPEAKER_02 3:42:22

Yeah. All right, one prop you take away.

SPEAKER_01 3:42:26

This is I had to pick two. Um I struggled so hard, you know. I would love a little missile on a stand that says the X-B.

SPEAKER_02 3:42:39

I thought about that too.

unknown 3:42:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:42:41

I thought, but then I also want the thing on Pepper's desk that keeps moving. Oh my god. I want that. I don't know what it's called, but I want one. You know, yeah, he didn't he like I love how he could. He had to stop it because it bothered Zell on him. I like that. Yeah, that's yeah. Yeah, those are my my two. If I had to if I had to pick one, the desk thing would be the one that I had to pick. But if I could, I'd I'd get both.

SPEAKER_02 3:43:05

See, mine's very weird on this, but I would have picked a box of the strawberries, came into the street. No, ours is the same scene. That's fine. It's the same scene, but just two different items. Yeah. Yep, that's good. Part of me is like, you know what, that's very abstract. That's like a little unique, the a throwaway item. I like those type of things because it's for me, they're memorable of that. Yep.

SPEAKER_01 3:43:25

One of the other props I thought was would be neat would be the element thing after he creates it would be kind of cool in the box, you know. The shape that'd be neat. Especially if you could push a button and it glow out, you know, that'd be kind of cool.

SPEAKER_00 3:43:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:43:36

Oh, yeah, stuff like that. Yeah. Most underrated moment for you. Oh, most underrated moment for me is uh let's see. I would have to say I don't think we talk enough about him creating the element. That's true. To be honest with you, you know?

SPEAKER_02 3:43:58

Because that's a big monumental thing in mankind history more than anything else, too.

SPEAKER_01 3:44:02

Yeah, I think it's a big deal. And and I I think we always jump to the whole stuff that his dad does and says in the videos more to like the revelation of what really comes out of it. Like I really think and I might be wrong though, because but at the time I underestimated how much I liked it. But that whole scene of creating the element, I really loved. I think it's underrated, I don't think it's talked about enough.

SPEAKER_02 3:44:27

Well, um, I would say for for me, it's roadie helping pick Tony up and seeing the cause of the struggles health-wise. I felt like that was a great character moment that I really bust over to their chemistry. So I thought that was that's definitely an underrated moment when you see the dynamic of their friendship and what it's going through. You know?

SPEAKER_01 3:44:45

Yeah, I like that too. I do.

SPEAKER_02 3:44:46

That's the it's a feeling that lacked in the first film that I think needs to be appreciated.

SPEAKER_01 3:44:51

It's a good choice. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 3:44:52

Most overrated moment for you.

SPEAKER_01 3:44:54

That stupid fight with him and Rowie.

SPEAKER_03 3:44:56

I'm gonna have to change my mind on that too, because you've helped me change my mind on that.

SPEAKER_01 3:45:00

I'm gonna say the same thing. It just, I know for some reason people love it and they think it's funny, and it's uh we peas and it uh yeah, it's dumb. Sorry, sorry guys, it just doesn't it it really is, it's too uh, it's not what I would have liked to have in it, to be honest. Your funniest moment. Uh his first time meeting Black Widow. Yes, he's boxing. That is. I love when she gets in the ring and he's just like sucking on the thing and he's just staring at her. Like in just the way he's acting and then how he's looking her up while she's right there. Yeah, yeah, like he's he's sizing her up, you know, like and then that goes to show how smart he is. Like he's being distracted by the pretty, but he knows that wait a second, this isn't right. Yes, yeah, and he and he just how googly goggly he gets over her at first is great, which is even better later when you realize how he acts with her. It's like he he as he changes and goes through it, and that's real good. I I love it, it's hilarious too.

SPEAKER_02 3:45:58

To a teach, my favorite too. Uh everything you just said, exactly. I love it. I love how Pepper is so cool about it too, because she knows, oh, that's just telling me. But it's just it never diminishes their relationship or gets in the midst of it because yeah, it's so good.

SPEAKER_01 3:46:13

The only stuff I would put under here that would that would kind of qualify, but it's not really moments. It's something I like in this movie. I wanted to bring up is little quirky things about Tony Stark going forward that out of all the characters in the MCU, um, there's other ones, but he's one of them that they build, he builds Robert, I'd say, did a lot of this. And I think that they just had a lot of funny, quirky things to do it with. He has a character to this guy that's real interesting, you know, that is way bigger. I love that he loves cheeseburgers. It's just a random why. Why not? And the other thing that yeah, the other thing in it that is weird that you notice that even throughout the rest of it is he doesn't like to be handed things. They never talk about where that comes from or why, but he doesn't like it. He's always just the I don't say it's a thing, and it's always all the time. Like, yeah, and and those moments always kind of made me kind of quirk up because they never tell you what the deal is, just that he's a weird guy, like he's got these pet peeves, and one of them is yeah, I don't get it and stuff. Yeah, well and there's moments in this work happens a lot. Yeah, just set it in the T I don't know. It's a thing I got. It's like in that emotional moment, he won't take it.

SPEAKER_02 3:47:22

Like he's a lot of smart, super, super smart, intelligent people like that, all the geniuses you think of and that we've had throughout history. I think they have those one or two little quirks about them that either, oh, you like cheeseburgers like I do, that's kind of like the most human thing, or there's something like you don't want to be handed something. That's that's odd, but yeah, that's just how he works.

SPEAKER_01 3:47:43

And I love that he doesn't get upset about it. Yeah. Like because he knows, how would you know? Yeah, but he just kind of like, yeah, I don't like being handed things, it's okay, don't worry about it. It's like he's just so nonchalant about it, it's just funny. All right, um, most emotional scene. I I had two. I thought the one between him and Roadie was up there, but I have the same as you, so can I just say it then? Yeah, when he sees the footage, is what is when his dad is directly talking to him. And I'm just oh, this is this is where it really hits. I agree. That is where this this is where this really hits. And it pays off later. Something like about this movie that we've talked about before, or that we brought up earlier, is seeing it now in the whole of the MCU, the emotional beats are there now, and you can't ignore them. Yeah. When he's given the company to Pepper and he says that it was always you. It's like, oh, he says that when he's dying in the ship, and then Dame. It's like I can't uh detach myself emotionally from that because of what it was later. Yeah. And you give it to the Russo's to reach back into all that stuff and take all those things out and use those little moments because in the end it's what made this guy so good. And that's something very yeah, it's very, very well accomplished, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_02 3:48:56

And that's something I'll say that a lot of MCU films, and I say this uh not lightheartedly, is that they tend to forget some of these personal character elements later on. Not always, they do hit them, they definitely do hit them. But some characters that need a scene like this, they forget to do or they forget to establish it well enough. I agree that I think that if they did more of this stuff, it makes those characters that seem like gods to us on the big screen come back down to a more huge level for us. So, anyways, all right, we're getting to our final scores now of the so for the story, one out of two, what would you give it? I gotta give it a 1.5.

SPEAKER_00 3:49:38

Okay. I gave it a one. Characters for you. One same thing for me.

SPEAKER_01 3:49:45

Action and visuals. Uh that's that's definitely a uh I'll say 0.5. Yep. I think visuals it lacked, and I think the action was it was good, but to me a lot of heavy visuals.

SPEAKER_02 3:50:00

It wasn't to me, it wasn't so jarring. Yeah, I I gave it too much of a thought at least, so I just gave it a two.

SPEAKER_01 3:50:05

Gotcha. Emotion and stakes. Uh I definitely give that a two when there. I think they I I think they hit it with him specifically. Yeah. I completely agree. I gave it a two. Rewatchability and the MCU impact. I give that a solid one. I want to go higher, um, but I could wait a while before I watch it again. No, I've watched it twice. But I didn't I didn't feel like I couldn't watch it the second time. Like it was if we were to watch it right now, I might be in. We could talk during it. You know what I think? Yeah. So yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:50:33

All right. So uh my final score of the whole thing is an eight out of ten. Yep. Well, you say the same thing.

SPEAKER_01 3:50:41

No, I am gonna, I'm gonna be, uh ten's high. When you think it's an out of ten, we're talking about the whole MCU. I know this is gonna sound low, folks, but understand I am I'm using this score is to me like very precious, right? It's gotta be. So I'm gonna give it a solid 6.5. Sorry if that sounds low. Trust me, it's a great movie, and I love it more than I thought I would, but there's better ones coming. They just are. If I if I I feel like if I went as high as an eight, what the hell would I give? You know, we'd have to go to a 15, a couple of the others, but but I get it. I yeah, 6.5.

SPEAKER_03 3:51:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:51:28

So with that said, the official Goodell multiverse score, combining our two scores, averaging them up, is seven out of ten for Iron Man 2. Not a bad spot though for a sequel. And yes, third movie is good. Honestly, for how sequels can tend to be sometimes, it's very good. It's very good. It could have been much worse than that third film would have been in question, especially the infancy of the MCU at this point, because you need your sequels to really be good sequels to continue onward. It's not like where you could take for granted them nowadays with if you make a bad MCU sequel, The Marvels, for instance, that you you think you can have a third film. They're probably gonna get a third film, but if this was early stages, it would have cut, it will have killed the character immediately. Yeah, I agree, I agree. Yep. Yep. All right, so um there's a post-Crasky seat score, but we both already scored a 10 out of 10. Yeah, it's fantastic.

SPEAKER_01 3:52:26

It's gonna be up there in the conversation of the bet one of the best. Yeah. So when we do our later list of the best one, that'll be the one we talk about.

SPEAKER_02 3:52:32

All right. This is our last section of the review, guys. Uh, one sentence final review, and then we are gonna pitch to you our version of the film to the to a degree. What would you have done differently? That doesn't have to be long if you're just fixing certain scenes or for certain characters, but your one sentence of the film is we got it.

SPEAKER_01 3:52:51

Yeah, this is a great sequel to a great movie um that builds upon the character that was introduced in the first movie. Uh highly recommend fantastic start to the Marvel Cinematic Universe, to be honest.

SPEAKER_02 3:53:07

I agree. All right, I'm gonna say mine is a good follow-up, despite some flaws. It's not Marvel's worst sequel in retrospect. I think that it holds well. Yep, holds up well. Yep, very, yep, very much. All right, I'm gonna pitch to you what I would have done differently. And folks, for this segment, uh, we want you guys to listen to it, have an open mind for it. But at the same time, when we are done, we want you to share your thoughts and opinions in the comments section to say, oh, we agree with Sam's version, oh, we agree with Ike's version, or we like what we got already. We don't need to change it. So please, those are the three ways to vote for this section. I'm gonna tell you. For me, I would have made Justin Hammer a little more formidable, intellectually wise. Something to a degree of maybe at the very end of the film, you show him in handcuffs in a jail cell, and he just has this look on his face that's like, I've been through all this stuff, I'm gonna rise above it. Say something like, I'm going to aim higher. And if he emphasizes the word aim, that's a classic MCU villain that actually is the aim is his own rivalry to um Stark Industries, and that could have been Justin Hammer's rise to saying, I'm taking this more seriously going forward. I'm not gonna be that goofball or screwed around like that. I would have done something a little more like that, and I would have made Ivan a little more um demonstrate his intelligence more so on the level of Tony Stark rather than just a, in my opinion, a little more of a cliche villain type thing. Um, not not a prisoner to Justin Hammer, but more of equals to Tony Stark in that regard. So that's just why I will have done a little bit differently. Other than that, and the scene we already talked about of Rowany fighting Iron Man, tweaking that a little bit to maybe show a little bit of an origin of um Horror Machine already testing the suit in the military, and now he's gonna use it against Iron Man to make him stop acting like a jerk. There's some wiggle room there for that, but that's the main thing I would have changed for Iron Russian.

SPEAKER_00 3:55:10

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 3:55:13

So I would have definitely made Justin Hammer more smart, sounding thing. Yeah, I want to change his intelligence for sure. Um I would change how the Belletary gets all of the zoo and and not had the fight between Roadie and and uh uh Tony happen. Although the fight between Roadie and Tony isn't a bad idea in a moment for the movie, I just don't think that would have been the moment for it. So I would have kept the fight somewhere else and done it differently for different reasons. And now I can't get into specifics, guys, because I tell you, this it's a tough movie to write, right? Um, I would have changed the end a little bit. I would have probably had it where I think it would have been more interesting and build off of and build onto more of why Tony's the way he is. If Ivan would have won at the end and before he gives Tony the killing blow, it's uh war machine that actually saves his life and defeats whiplash. It would have been a great last villain given his little, you know, I'm gonna say this to you so you know why I'm killing you, and Tony kind of being pinned and not being able to do anything and then Brody really stepping up and doing something big. I think that would have a little more emotional stake at it, which would have been a little more fun. I think that that would add a little flavor. Uh not saying what they did was bad. I keep what you did, it's fine. Obviously, it's there, it's what it is. I'm not saying it's bad. I'm just saying if I were the writer of this, that would have been what I'd have done definitely.

unknown 3:56:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:56:49

Other than that, other than that's good. I like your pitch. I yeah, I Ike is a lot more ambitious and with these.

SPEAKER_03 3:56:56

Like, oh, he goes that's that's really I'll kill people died.

SPEAKER_01 3:57:00

I'm telling you right now.

SPEAKER_03 3:57:04

All right.

SPEAKER_02 3:57:05

Well, that's awesome. That actually concludes our episode for the multi travel. What a great one, huh? Yeah. So, ladies and gentlemen, we are on Facebook, we are on Instagram. We just started a TikTok page, by the way, but the the handle is is not giving me technical difficulties, changing it to the Cadell Multiverse handle for some reason. So I think it says Cadell Multi Beat or something like that. Oh goodness. But give it 30 days, that's gonna change because it says I could do it in 30 days. Anyways, we are gonna be on TikTok. We're already on YouTube, so if you're just listening to us on the audio version, please join us for the video version. And it looks like our camera's held up for the first time since doing this. So yay! All right, what's next for us? Um, we're reviewing the next episode of Born Again. That's right. Yep. And what's the next move?

SPEAKER_01 3:57:53

Thor. Yep, we're gonna be hitting Thor, guys. The first Thor movie is a fit. We actually had to look this up because we're like, man, was it Captain America or was it Thor? Come to find out they're the same year. So, so it's it's quite amazing to think back in the day we got those two movies in the same year. So yeah, I can't wait to hit Thor. You know, we're gonna we're heading off to Asgard, guys. We're gonna see what's going on, you know, see Chris Helmsworth at his best, you know, and one of probably one of the best villains the M shoes ever had, get introduced to. So we're gonna have a good time with that one. I I honestly haven't seen Thor Sand probably since oh my, it's probably been a good 10 years since I've actually watched the first Thor. And not because I don't want to see it, just there's so many to watch sometimes, and it just wasn't one I threw on again. So it's gonna be interesting to see how re-watchable it is, yeah, to be honest.

SPEAKER_02 3:58:39

I I'm excited for that too, because I'm trying to remember when I saw it last, and it had been quite a quite a while. I don't know if it's been 10 years like you, but uh the only thing I remember of it is this is a young Chris Hemsworth. Yeah, I know that the behind the scenes of how the cast is and all that stuff. I'm looking forward to deep doing a deep dive like we do in the the breakdown, the beginning of these segments, because I love just learning all those little things and then see what happens later, you know.

SPEAKER_01 3:59:04

I remember liking it when I first saw it, to do. Uh, I don't know if I remember loving it though, but I do remember liking it. So I'd be I'll be curious to see if it holds up. I mean, I hate boy hate to go into it. The incredible hulk thing. I wonder why it got done. Yeah, but I don't think so. I think I think this is definitely a surprise could go.

SPEAKER_02 3:59:21

What I do remember of it, and uh, we'll get into more of that at the episode, but I do remember our dad taking me to the Geneseo movie theaters to see this. Thor was his favorite character. Yeah, that's true. And he loved that film. Yeah. So I if he is a personal fan of Thor and he liked the movie that they did of it, I can already tell you they probably did the comic accurate-wise because that's how I get that stuff from. This is from our dad.

SPEAKER_01 3:59:52

Yeah, there's a couple things we've I've actually been wanting to pitch. So I'll pitch it to Sammy right here on the channel right now. I'd like to do a sometime Lord of the Rings, you know, fellowship to Return of the King, like a three-episode, whatever like we're doing with this, but for those sometime. Yeah. Not only for our dad, because he loved them so much, but because they're so good, not good. Yeah. You know, I get real hardcore into some little fun Lord of the Rings stuff, you know. So so yeah, but for sure, can't wait to get into the story.

SPEAKER_02 4:00:21

I I accept that. I think that would be pretty cool. I do like Lord of the Rings. I I got into it from our dad. And um, for me, whenever I hear that music, such an amazing song, by the way. Oh, but that that always brings back good memories for me. So I would definitely love to do that. So, oh boy. All right, but first let's get through Marvel, and we're gonna see you on our next episode. Um, until then, guys, um have a good rest of your day. And thanks for joining us. Thanks for joining us.

SPEAKER_00 4:00:57

Right. Yeah.