Ep5 - Thor 1 Retrospective with Daredevil BA S2 Ep4 Review

Episode 5 - The Goodell Bros breakdown the recent Marvel news, highlight their thoughts on the Daredevil Born Again Season 2 Episode 4, and then segway into a full breakdown and retrospective view on the first Thor film.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

On every timeline in every universe, there's one thing that we always talk about Marvel. Welcome to the Goodell Multiverse Podcast. I am your host, Sam Goodell. I am Isaiah Goodell. And today we're diving into our fifth episode of the Goodell Multiverse Podcast. We're so excited for this. We're doing a retrospective of Thor one. Oh yeah. We're really stoked. So I'll run through the agenda really quick. And then my brother has a special announcement he'd like to make regarding the podcast. So our agenda for today on this episode is we're going to start off with the news of the week, which is something we've called the multiverse minute. And then we're going to do our breakdown of Daredevil Born Again, season two, episode four, that just came out last week. That is going to be called our branch point, let me see, branch point breakdown. I have to remember. We came up with a really cool name. But it's a True Monster. Yeah. Yeah. And then of course we're getting to our retrospective series that we're doing on our Road to Doomsday. Or no. Is it Road to Doomsday? Our March to Doomsday. March to Doomsday. Yes. I'll get that right someday with Thor one. So uh take it away, Ike.

SPEAKER_01 1:17

Okay, guys, bear with me, but we have some changes that we want to do. It's nothing too big. You're going to get our podcast in full if you want it for sure. Um, but for time reasons and some editing reasons, we've decided to put it into some segments when you go online and when you look for us on here too. And as Sammy alluded to already with some of the some of the titles of it, we're going to do a section called the Multiverse Minute, which is basically just, you know, even if the minute's like 45 minutes, sometimes it's going to happen. But it's going to be the multiverse minute, and that's going to be everything news with Marvel. And we just discussed today before we started, we're going to throw in some DC to keep keep caught up on that as well. Um, so yeah, it's it's going to be a news segment where we feel like we can talk a little more freer and longer about certain things. We found that it's a longer part in our podcast. So that's going to be one of the segments that you're going to be able to click on separately if you would like to say that's all you want to check out was the news that day, or that was something you wanted to get to, you know, you can go on and just find that. The next segment is going to be our branch point breakdown, which is basically going to be any Marvel TV show takes center stage. So when there's a show playing and we're going to watch it every week and we're going to do a bar breakdown of it like we have been doing with Daredevil. Now we know that shows aren't going to be playing all the time, and we haven't quite decided together yet if we're going to do one for DC uh Green Lantern. We might, because it looks great. Um, but if if we don't, or we do, um during that time that there isn't a show playing, we're gonna probably twice a month, maybe three. We haven't quite decided, but you can go on there and you can look and you can find that we're gonna also start reviewing some old movies that we grew up with. And they're not gonna be Marvel or DC related. You know, it's gonna it's gonna be fun stuff that I think everyone's all seen that are big movies everybody likes. It's also a segment I think we could have a good time with maybe having like a guest on, like our mother or a friend or people that have influenced us into watching the movies that we watch. Um, but just so you know that that will only be up, those will only be coming up when there isn't a show playing. Because when there's a show playing, that's gonna take center stage. So that's more of a just keep your eye out for that because you never know. You know, you might see something on there really cool and you want to talk about it. We've already talked Titanic, we might do, we might do the Terminator movies. We're definitely gonna do Lord of the Rings, so stay tuned. Stuff like that. We're you know, we're all gonna love that kind of stuff. Um, and then of course, our main segment, the reason why we started this podcast in the first place is all Marvel, right? And our Marvel, you know, retrospective main of the main movies and stuff. That's gonna be the longest segment and the longest part of our podcast always. Because once we get caught up and we get to where we're gonna go, we're gonna go into the backlog of all the Marvel movies. We haven't quite decided how far back we went. I think we determined already that Howard the Duck probably isn't gonna happen. So anything after that, maybe is probably what we're gonna do. So we're not sure, but but we're definitely gonna we're gonna be doing a lot of them, though. There's quite a few, and we'll have a lot of fun with that. Another thing I want to announce, it's I don't know when the first one's going to be. Um, it might be this week, maybe even next week. Uh, but keep your eye out for it. I'm gonna do a segment called The Dark Dimension, which I'm just gonna do a quick 20-minute to a half hour long segment about uh a horror movie that's coming out or that has already been out that I've seen. And of course, with each one of those, I'm gonna have a creature feature to kind of like tell you to watch. I figure there's way too many old horror movies with old creature features. I can't do them all, so I'm definitely gonna have highlight a horror movie that's of recent that I think is good that I suggest you should watch, and then show you one like that's old, that's kind of real cheesy and crappy, but still right up your alley if you'd be like horror. Um, other than that, that's pretty much what we're doing with our channel that's new. We will have more things coming. We've got a lot of stuff we're talking about. We got we're still trying to figure out how this is gonna all work and we're having a great time doing it. So let us know in the comments and all these things if this works or if this doesn't work or what you want more of, you know, and so then we know who's watching, what they like, what you want to see, and we'll try to, you know, fit it best with how we feel we're doing it because we're also doing what we like. So it's one of those things where we're not gonna just do anything, but you know, if if hey, if you guys want a second horror movie every week, I'll do it. You know, if you want Sammy to do something on his own, you have a suggestion of something he decides to do on his own, tell us. You know, if you think our news thing needs this, let us know. The best thing you guys can do is give us feedback, and then we will do our best to try to make it fit because this is new to us, and we're just trying our best at this point. So unless you got something to add to that, Sammy, I think that's pretty much it. Just keep your eyes out, guys, on on the changes as you see them, and we will make sure we announce things properly so then you know that it's there if you didn't go look by chance. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:01

Well, I think the the only things I would add to it is um uh first off, I think this is this is really cool. It's it's just part of a growing experience for a new channel and new people like us doing stuff like this. We've never podcasted before. I've had some experience with my volunteer group uh at an animal shelter, but that's mainly just doing what I'm doing right now as the host. So I'm learning about the editing thing. We're we're both learning about okay, how's the marketing part work, all that different stuff. So this is just part of our our growing of the channel of um putting our footprint on the mark type thing.

SPEAKER_01 6:38

You know, and truth is uh we're we're inspired by guys that we've watched on. I will I gotta throw a shot. I mean, I know we're just a young thing and they probably won't hear of us at all, but in case they ever do, I throw a shout out to guys like John Campia or John Roca or Christian Harloff. And these are guys that every time I've watched some of their stuff, we don't have a lot of people in our little western New York area that we can talk movies with. So we've relied a lot on listening to guys online just talking movies, especially movies we like. And over and over again we hear them say, Hey, if you guys are into this, you know, all you gotta do is pick up a camera and start. You know, it doesn't matter how small or how big, if you like it, go do it. And that's we finally were just like, you know what? Yeah. My brother and I, we could sit on a summer night and talk two or three hours about one movie, a one scene in a movie. And we're just like, why don't we take this? He's like, Yeah, what are we talking about? Sometimes it's funny, sometimes it's boring. I mean, it all depends on who's listening, you know. And and and we we just actually I just got recently inspired as a group called The Confused Breakfast out of Iowa. Those guys are fantastic, and I they kind of told their whole story about they started just like we are right now, you know. And and I don't expect us to be anything big. I just want us to have their content out and our thoughts out. And if hey, if you guys care enough to listen and subscribe and like, and it gets bigger, then hey, this is something we love doing. So yeah, just let us know.

SPEAKER_00 8:03

You know, I echo that I echo that sentiment that my brother has there for that. People like John Campia that I watch routinely, Doom Blazer, Grace Randolph from behind beyond the trailer. I I watch you guys like routinely. Like I wake up in the morning and on my way to work, or as I'm getting ready, I'm like, Well, what's the show on that I missed yesterday, or what's new out there? And I pull up my YouTube and they're the first people that pop up there just because it's the content that I like, and I'm just becoming like a small little uh grape on the fruit platter of this whole thing. So I love I love Campus.

SPEAKER_01 8:34

Campius is great. Him and Robert Meyer Burnett are great together. I often disagree with John, um, but I he's so good at there's no, it wouldn't be an argument. It'd be I would love to have a debate or discussion with him because he understands just like we do that it's all subjective. And there's times he says something like John, what the heck are you talking about? But then there's times I'm like, Yeah, you're you're you're dead on, you know. I just I like I like that difference up there. As you see, Sam and I all do the same thing, we're gonna have different takes on things, and yeah, it's fun. We'll just have fun with it, you know. We can get passionate. Passionate and heated is fun, but that's that's all that's all it is.

SPEAKER_00 9:12

Yeah, yeah. Because at the end of the day, we're talking about Marvel and we both love it to death. So it's okay if you're passionate about one character or one movie and the other person's not so much, and maybe, and it's funny as we're doing this retrospective. My taste is definitely different than my brother's taste. Yeah, but somehow we we find that crossroads right there, and it's like we just love Marvel. So yeah, and we see the same thing. Like, I disagree sometimes with John Campia and Grace Randolph sometimes, but at the same time, I value their opinion, I want to hear it, and it's good to have those different opinions.

SPEAKER_01 9:44

Often it makes you think of it in that way, too. Exactly. Oh wow, you know, or it's strong, or it helps you strengthen your argument. Say, man, I wish I was there because it'd be like, what about this? Because now all of a sudden now you know it's clear what you feel that you feel better about, you know. And yeah, it's I think Sam and I have a great thing going because we see these movies from two different perspectives. I see them as someone who's been indulged in as a huge movie buff. There's I've seen thousands of movies. I watch them all the time. I could do my own podcast on how many movies I watch. I wouldn't have time to do it, to be honest with you. Sammy comes from a different direction, you know, and he also grew up with these movies when I remember the time before these movies were around. I was going to the movies. So I think that's why when we have these discussions, we do come at them from a different place and we have different views. But somehow along the line, we are pretty darn close on the on the end result, which is which is kind of funny how that works.

SPEAKER_00 10:38

Yeah. Yeah. It's it's showing somewhere our DNA is still the same person. It's just we're from the same family still. Um, but anyways, yeah. So um thank you for giving us that little bit of an update to our podcast and how it's being structured. The only other thing I would say is I I don't have any plans right now doing my own separate branch segment like my brother does, although I do have a couple ideas, and I'm actually inspired by Screen Crush and Ryan Ary, because I love listening. If you're listening to this dude, I love watching your videos on your breakdowns or what you would do differently and things like that. And sometimes when we're in this gap of between Marvel movies and we're thinking about the what-ifs, or this could have been better if you do this, my brain kind of goes on a little tangent, and I'm before I know it, I have like a five or six-page document on my computer that says, this is gonna be a She-Hulk movie. This is what I would have done. It would have been different than the TV show, or things like that. And so um, I'm kind of inspired by that. If I ever do a little thing on the side, do something like the mirror dimension, where it's not gonna, I think that's a really cool scenario. I like how my brother used the dark dimension for all horror-related stuff. Yeah, my mirror dimension type thing will be more like these are what ifs, or these are, hey, this is spitballing from my brain on what it is, and all the people with power do what you're gonna do with it. You know, stuff like that. I love hearing those type of things. I listen to those routinely on how could they have fixed a movie, what's different people's perspectives and points of view. And so I might throw my two cents in there one day with my own segment. But right now, I'm just we're just focusing on this part. And um, I also have been thinking about too um a way for you guys to get more involved if you want to. We've said before, if you want to donate to us, that would be great. We would appreciate that because we're just using iPhones and ring lights. We don't have any new equipment. Even my computer, I found out recently, needs to be updated in order to do some of this stuff. So um, this is just a hobby of ours, too. This isn't, we're not at work right now. We're actually full-time jobs on top of this. Yeah, exactly. Full-time 40 hours plus uh jobs. So um I'm we're thinking about ways to expand our our way of you guys interacting with us and giving you either exclusive content or giving you something like a membership tier that's on YouTube that they have access to, something like that. Like you could become a variant of our in our multiverse type thing, you know, like something that plays along with our whole theme. So, yeah, we're we're talking about it, and when things start rolling out, you'll be the first to hear about it. So, all right. Well, uh, I think we're gonna segue on from this. All right, welcome to our multiverse minute, even if it's 45 minutes, news section of the week. Oh, yeah. All right, so let's let's dive right in there, guys. This is just our weekly news section that we're just gonna break down anything that's come out. We'll touch upon there's a little bit of rumors here or there, but the main thing is the news and what is actually happening at the moment. And so um, I'm gonna start off with the first one, and then maybe my brother and I will just go back and forth on each one and uh sure go from there. So coming up, filming or not filming right now, some people are filming it. The Cinemacon 2026 is happening at this very moment that we are filming our episode. So, what are we expecting from this?

SPEAKER_01 14:07

Well, uh from my uh perspective of the Cinemacon, or from what I understand of it, is this is the studio is kind of appealing to the movie theaters themselves. Um, so this is where you get a lot of real good, juicy stuff because they're really trying to get the movie theaters to invest in the movie and in their promotion and all sorts of stuff. So this is where they're not afraid to show a lot of what they got going on or what's coming up. I think some of the better, juicier things we get are at Cinemacon rather than a Comic Con because the Comic-Con kind of caters to the idea of teasing. Your Comic Con stuff, they want you to be excited and they're gonna give you just enough. When at Cinemacon, it's like they're kind of proving that they have enough. I think we're gonna get I think they're gonna get a full Avengers trailer in Cinemacon. Um, I don't think we're gonna get a full Avengers trailer for a while still, which I think we're still gonna get a main teaser trailer, but I think they get a full Avengers trailer in Cinemacon, or maybe a full teaser. But I think it'll be fun to break that down when they start talking about that, which we will. We're gonna stay away from any kind of leaked footage because unless it's an official thing, we don't want to show anything that's not true, you know. But we'll definitely break down anything that comes out of that when it comes down to describing it because we're gonna be interested too. Um, I I'll tell you, I wouldn't be surprised if they show Spider-Man to these people. They've been known to show whole movies. Hey, look what we got. If not the whole movie, the first 30 minutes or so, for sure. You hear that a lot, you know. I think they're gonna get like the I think they're gonna they're either gonna show Spider-Man, um, they might show He-Man, because that's a big one that's coming out, you know. Anything big coming out, I bet you Mortal Kombat shows. Because that's already been that's already been changed, like release dates because of their confidence in it. So they might show that movie too, just to say, hey, look, this is why this is so good, you know, and with where you got fingers across, it is because I'm hoping it is. I think that's what's gonna happen with CinemaCon. It's usually how it goes. It's not really for us kind of people or the the movie news people, but they still let those kind of guys in because you know, the more you talk about something, the more free press it is, right? Um, yeah, but yeah, because this is more for the movie studios, so yeah, I think we're gonna get some juicy things for sure.

SPEAKER_00 16:29

I think what I like about CinemaCon is you might hear some people online saying that cinemas are dying in the industry type thing because everything's going to streaming and there's different ways of studios now being able to connect with their audience. And I I understand that the industry itself is evolving, but what I like about CinemaCon is it's really showing that there is a movie theater going experience that we experience more growing up, and even now that they still want to keep fresh and alive, and so that's what this whole thing is about is that the studios are coming together and they, as the studios, are presenting to these movie theater heads and to those AMCs and Regals and Cinemarts and Tinteltown, all this stuff about what they're doing, and then that's usually when either deals get made or the hype gets real and they know what movie they think is gonna be the hot one because they put on a good show. So, of course, and Disney in particular has been known to put on a good show for um for these movie studios or sorry for these um these cinema studios and things like that. That's right. So um I think that we're definitely gonna we're gonna get a lot from James Gunn, I'm sure, regarding the future of DC. Yeah, I forgot DC probably front and center too. They might even show Supergirl. They might show Supergirl, they might show segments of it. I mean, they've they've been known in the past to last year bring Spider-Man out on the Sony panel. That's when they first announced that um Brave New World, I believe, was was coming and they brought him out and all this all this stuff happening. I won't be surprised of how much they're doing of Doomsday and what they already have, that they have something big planned. It's like an industry known, I wouldn't say secret, but it's talk within the industry that we've heard already from all these um cinemas that Doomsday is gonna be their biggest movie of the year. And it I tell you, Disney, Marvel, Kevin Feige, they're not gonna underperform when it comes to pitching their movies to the um to the cinemas. They're gonna put on the show. I this is this might be a bold take and it might not ever happen, but my prediction will be they're gonna show a trailer to Doomsday and they're gonna have new cast announcements. And some of them may even walk on stage. You think they'll do cast announcements at Cinemacon? I think to bring up the hype, especially if there's a specific actor that's probably already there for another studio or another movie that's there, it's easy for them, like a Tom Holland, to walk out on the stage and say, guess what? Spider Man's also gonna be in Doomsday. I will not be surprised if they do something like that because I think as much as some people, some people enjoyed the chair watch of 2025, I don't think that they would go and do that again, although it would definitely get us talking again. So that maybe their what they want to do was very successful, but I think their marketing strategy is gonna be changing here and there just to keep up with some new flavor of something, you know, um, to show us. And I won't be surprised if they announce someone maybe we didn't even think about is gonna be in this movie, even though it's one or two characters, just something new. Maybe we might even see Chris Evans walk out on stage, just making his first grand appearance besides that teaser we saw in December. Yeah, I think that's very plausible.

SPEAKER_01 19:53

I think anything could happen when it comes down to how they want to present Doomsday, right? I think it's more likely now that they would, whether between now or San Diego, I figure now would be the best time. But it is more likely that they do more cast announcements if there is more. Um, I mean, obviously there's more than what was on Chairwatch, or we wouldn't have Captain America because they left him completely out and here he is still in the movie. So obviously they had ideas of hiding things from us anyways from the start, um, which they do all the time, which is fine. Uh and and also with reshoots, maybe at the time Cherwatch happened, these people weren't part of this movie yet, and now they are. So if I were that, I might have the entire old cast of X-Men come out and present Doomsday and have nobody from the Avengers just have the entire old school X-Men guys, all of them come out and be like, by the way, we're all in this, and check out the Dune Teaser trailer and let it be an X-Men heavy one. Because then if you want people to go see this movie, that's who's gonna go watch this movie. Yeah. Yeah. Then then the next trailer would be uh Avengers heavy trailer. You know, and then no more trailers. Like just give us the movie. Yeah. I kind of like this, I don't want to know what's going on, you know. And I actually kind of want them to save as much of Doom as possible. I said Doom, and I apologize. I want them to save as much as Doom as possible. In fact, if we don't hear him talk or speak or barely see him between now and the movie opens, I think I'd be okay with that. I'd like more surprises out of that than because if we get too much of him, I'm gonna be like, ugh, we're gonna pick it apart too much, and it's already the idea of him being Tony Starred, maybe not, maybe his Robert Harry Jr., blah, blah, blah. We even gonna see his face. I think that there's a lot of questions there. Just let us experience that as it rolls out in the film. Yeah. Yeah, because there's a I I think that there's a lot of possibility that we do get more casts, so I think you're right on that.

SPEAKER_00 21:43

Yeah, I definitely think that whether it is here at Cinemacon or it's at San Diego, Marvel does put on a good show when they do San Diego. Now, from my understanding, I don't think they did San Diego last year. There was one of these years recently that they skipped it and or there was very minimal, right. If anything, yeah, it it it didn't have, but when they put on a show at San Diego, I tell you, that is it is like we as Marvel geeks are like chomping at the bits on looking up the news reels as it's happening in real time. Oh, they announced this, and every movie, usually the cast comes out, the cast comes out. So uh I know that that's one of the dreams for me, is maybe next year. That's what I'm predicting is next year they're gonna start rolling out what their phase seven and onwards gonna be, because all we have is Secret Wars next year, and they are already, by the end of this year, rumor has it, they are starting to film one of the new movies for phase seven, probably X-Men, which is the hot take right now, the most likely one. I'm thinking I will not be surprised if I don't think this year, because of the hype they're trying to make for Doomsday, they're gonna do something like that because they don't want to overshadow Robert Dyer Jr. coming back as Dr. Doom type thing. But um, I do think next year at San Diego, that's my prediction, they're gonna do, we're gonna feast on Marvel.

SPEAKER_01 23:00

Yeah, I'm I agree with Sam. I think our I've always wanted to go to one of them. We've kind of had a taste of Comic-Con going to one in Rhode Island that we really like. Shout out to Rhode Island Comic-Con. You guys do a great job. And we we like it a lot. We're probably actually we're thinking about going this year to that again. Um, if I'm thinking very seriously about it. So we'll and uh it just costs a lot of money, folks. So sometimes it's hard to do. But I think we can make that some work this year. And when it comes down to San Diego, I'm gonna hold my decision on whether I want to go to that until I see how good Doomsday is. If Doomsday just rocks it and kills it, then sign me up. Let's go, let's get our tickets way ahead of time. If it doesn't, then man, I'm just gonna wait it out with everybody else. You know, because like I just want to be ready, you know. It's because it's not like we're gonna be able to afford to really meet a lot of these people. Yeah, that's all that's the thing. Yeah, but but it would be nice to be there and experience it like they do. Like the fans really do it to how much they like it. Yeah. Then I could wear my fat thorough costume again. So I have an awesome fat Thorse place.

SPEAKER_00 24:05

So yeah, that you you were you were pretty hot in that father. I couldn't believe how many pictures people want with you this aren't they? People were like, oh, we need pictures right now. And he looks just so perfect for it. Anyways, so yeah, that's what we're um that was our two cents on Cinemacon 2026. It's happening right now. And by the way, with that mentioned, if something like a doomsday trailer does get does come out within this next upcoming week, we are doing a quick, hey, this just came out. We're getting together right now and doing a quick video for you guys so you get to see our reaction to it and our two cents to it. So something that if something that big happens, we will do an extra video.

SPEAKER_01 24:42

Oh, yeah. And so keep your eyes open this week, particularly for any kind of uh if it's nothing that's really light shattery, we'll save it for next week's you know, multiverse.

SPEAKER_00 24:52

Yeah, if if they show a trailer to the audience but it's not it's on it's not released to the public, you know, on their official platforms or anything, we're not gonna show leaked footage, but we are gonna talk about it because at that point they've made it as news. Yeah, it's just not video news. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 25:08

It'll be a big feature next week. Yeah, and I don't know, maybe if the leak leaked footage they discuss is real big, maybe we will do a video on it. So let's just see what we get first and go from there. Yeah, all right. So take it away with the next thing on our news. All right, so our next news thing is something to do with Chris Evans, go figure. Chris Evans indicates that he is in the next one, quote unquote, and will be shooting very soon, quote unquote. What does this mean, Sam?

SPEAKER_00 25:35

Oh, I I mean, of course, the internet went abuzz when this happened. I remember watching the video of this. I don't know if this is who he was talking to or this is just some lady reacting to. There is this woman that uh you hear Chris Evans actually say these things. So, and I don't think it's an AI-generated thing. I think he actually is just saying, hey, I'm filming stuff. Uh if you want to be a skeptic about it, you could say, Oh, these are just reshoots of Doomsday. That's what he's meaning. He's in the next one, meaning he's in the next shoots or whatever. I think this is Secret Wars, and everyone else seems to think he is confirming he's gonna be in Secret Wars too. And I well, we've always speculated Secret Wars is gonna have everybody. So most likely. I I would not be surprised if what he's filming, yeah. I'm sure he's filming Doomsday Reshoots, but I think he's also filming some Secret Wars too. And he just let the cat out of the bag, but being very vague about it. That's my two cents.

SPEAKER_01 26:30

Yeah, these kind of news things I I'm real careful with because it's he could be talking about anything, it might not even be him, you know. From what I understand of this, it's a recording of him saying this to someone who's not even a news outlet. So it's kind of like I don't know what's it mean he's in the next one, it could be the next Harry Potter. I have no idea. You know, uh I obviously he's probably talking about Captain America, he's probably talking about his stuff. I think it's kind of a no-brainer, though, that he's in the next one. I mean, if you're gonna bring Captain America back to fix your mistakes, because we know that's why you did it, Marvel. I'm just very cynical about it. I I personally would not have ever brought him back, but I see why you are. And I'm not saying it still can't be amazing. It can't be amazing. It's just we just gotta just be careful with what he did before, because what he did before was Chef's kiss. You know, so don't ruin this. You know what I mean? Like if you're gonna do something with it, let's do something real good. It's just that ending of him dancing with Peggy, and it just goes, I'm like, oh man, I almost wanted the universe right there to just end, but it's no more to stop. You know what I mean? Yeah, we like bold decisions, so we don't like stupid decisions. So but I understand why he's back. I think it will make for a fun story. I think he's awesome. I mean, he is Steve Rogers. I'd like him to come back and just take the shield away from what's his face. Uh, and then we'll just leave that until we get to that movie. But yeah, uh, I think it's no-brainer. If he's gonna come back, I mean, why not bring him back for both these two that are so close together? I mean, if if you're talking he's back for the next Avengers movies, but he's got to wait six or seven more movies, then that could be a that's probably not what he's talking about. But you're talking these two movies are so close together that I bet there's characters that we have in this one that they've even filmed some of their stuff for the next movie for timing-wise. Excuse me, for timing-wise, because it's gonna be hard to get done later for the next movie. You know, I mean, they do this stuff all the time when it comes down to franchise kind of things. Um, I think we're gonna get Robert Downey Jr. back as Iron Man in Secret Wars, to be honest with you. I don't think he's gonna go further than that. I think it's gonna be some sort of time complacent blah, blah, blah, whatever they're gonna use to make this movie awesome is what they're gonna do, you know. And if they're smart, they can do that, you know. Uh just give us a good ending to cap. If he ends, if he doesn't end and he stays in, that's even cooler. I hope Chris Evans does it till he's 90. Why not? You know, it's like we're gonna have you jackman until he's 90. Don't think we won't, because I feel like there's so many things we can do with that. He can even if he just shows up here and there or something else, or however he's gonna do these for a long time. You know, and so yeah, I I don't want to read too much into it though, because we don't know what this really means. We really don't know.

SPEAKER_00 29:13

Yeah, no, we don't, but it it circled around and something something came out of it. So uh we had to bring it up for our part of our news segment here.

SPEAKER_01 29:22

Yeah, oh yeah, for sure. Because it's probably it probably is. That's really what it comes down to. But you know, his character is still alive in the Knives Out series and Netflix, and they just uh had a successful third one of that, and they're already talking about filming a fourth one of that. Maybe that's what he's talking about. So it could it could have been a whole different movie, folks.

SPEAKER_00 29:42

Speaking of character still alive, we haven't heard that Steve Rogers, the MCU Steve Rogers that we know that we saw at the end of Endgame, old man Steve. We don't know if he is actually deceased or not. Yeah, we don't for I mean that Super Soldier serum is supposed to help you from aging so much, too. That's why he looks the way he doesn't he's just shown his age from that. And that's another reason why I'm a little worried about how they're doing this with bringing him back type thing, because you kind of Rooster Brothers already kind of insinuated he went back and had the life that he always wanted to have. And so I don't want to mess that up. But well, and they got time traveled now, so there's a lot of MacGuffins that we gotta get in throwing. And they have variants. We don't even know if this is the Steve Rogers from Earth 616. That'd be their biggest mistake, though.

SPEAKER_02 30:28

You don't think that they'll do a variance? I'll tell you, I'll tell you that'd be the worst thing to do. Yep.

SPEAKER_01 30:34

All right, but does that set well with you? No. If you get into the movie and it's hey, by the way, we're not touching that seat, we're just gonna pull Steve out of a different place. I don't know. This variant thing works well with some, but not with others. When it's that iconic with that character, it's uh, I don't know. I don't know. If you're gonna bring him back, bring him back. I don't know. That's why I had I struggle with this multiverse thing. Because sometimes it makes me it makes the stuff they've done feel not as important. And when you start doing that, you start losing me as a viewer. Or at least someone not as passionate. Like I'll probably watch these until they really go off the rails. They really gotta go bad. But passion-wise and loving them wise, yeah. No, I don't want a variant Steve Rogers. If we're gonna get a variant Steve Rogers, he's might as well a different actor, different thing. I'd rather that than than him. Yeah, yeah. Well, maybe that's how I feel about it. I mean, I mean that's I it's their thing. They can do what they want, right?

SPEAKER_00 31:34

I just I am if it comes to that where he's a variant of Steve Rogers in this movie. I I don't know honestly how I feel about it for for that for that purpose, because I I feel like I can I can separate the Steve that I know from the Steve they want to tell. I feel like I I knew that from Wanda, from Doctor Strange, the Multiverse of Madness, that they were able to do a variant of Wanda, and I was able to know, okay, I love Wanda, but I know this isn't the same Wanda here, things like that, you know. So I don't know. It's definitely a possibility, but I don't know what they're gonna do. I think my issue with it more is just they can't be exactly the same.

SPEAKER_01 32:14

So if we're gonna have that Captain America Steve Rogers that we know, we need the one that we know. If you just bring in a new guy and we just say, okay, he's just a variant played by the same actor and stuff, and he's exactly like the old Steve Rogers, then you want to just have the old Steve Rogers back, you know? But I can see that as far as they're all a little different, even though they're the same underneath, and they have like even Loki when you watch that, they're all tad different about who they are and what they're doing and where they're from or what they think. And maybe we'll get a whole different version of Steve Rod. Maybe that is the big swing they'll make, and that might be sometime in for.

SPEAKER_00 32:50

But I just really it could be something as simple in in the in the movie, and again, we don't know what the movie script is. No clue, guys. We know some people online that say they've read the script. Cool, good for you. So we're just speculating. Um, and you could probably tell us if we're right or wrong, or I'm sure you won't even want to touch that with a 10-foot pole to keep your keep your people and you know.

SPEAKER_01 33:12

Best part is is just him saying these couple quotes that might mean nothing, got all this talk out of it. So if it is anything, fantastic. If not, then man, we just talked a lot about and just talk about nothing.

SPEAKER_00 33:23

So who knows what it is. I think that's a good way to segue then into just our next our next topic. Yeah, go for it. Yeah, because we'll stay on that all day. Yeah. Oh, yeah. No, and this this next one we'll probably would stay on all day too. So we're gonna have to we're gonna have to um control ourselves here. Yeah. But uh the MCU's X-Men films, um, the X-Men film has confirmed its writers, at least these writers in particular. According to director Jake Schreier, beef creator Lee Songjin, and the bear writer Joanna Carl Kahlo. Carlo Kahlo? I'm sorry if I mispronounced your name, um, are currently rewriting the script. Schreyer wants, quote, ideology and soap opera drama to take center stage in this script in the film. So what are you as X-Men fan, probably more than MCU fan, what is your two cents about this?

SPEAKER_01 34:15

So any adding any kind of talent to something is good. And this uh have you watched Beef or The Bear?

SPEAKER_00 34:23

Either one of those? Correct me if I'm wrong, but is Beef the Netflix show of Allie Wong? Yeah, yes. I have watched Beef. Okay, and but you ever watched the bear? No. Okay, but I heard about the bear, isn't that something about Kitchen? Yep, yep. Yep, I've seen both these shows and the bear is one of my favorites. And the thing isn't the bear. Evan correct.

SPEAKER_02 34:44

Evan Fossy.

SPEAKER_00 34:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:47

The thing you're in a pending gram. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We'll get your name correct. Um, yeah, I've watched both these, and I'll tell you, they are excellent shows. I thought beef was great. It was straight, weird, out of nowhere. I I like that person's style writing because there I feel like there's uh there's a lot of spontaneous stuff going on, which makes it neat because uh, I feel like that person will take swings and put out maybe too many, and then someone could say, eh, uh, let's bring it back a little bit. What I love about the writer of the bear being involved in this is when if you watch The Bear, what a character-driven show. There is a show is great, it has that dramatic soap opera feeling, but new age, so it's not like your daytime soap opera feeling. Okay, it's like what you want to see, it's very realistic life kind of what these people are going through, and that person writes those characters so well in The Bear. Probably top three best TV episodes I've ever seen in my life comes out of that show.

SPEAKER_00 35:57

That's big praise for especially for in connection to something we're deeply passionate. And I've seen a lot of things, guys.

SPEAKER_01 36:03

And the bear has a show, uh, an episode in season two called The Seven Fishes, and it is one of the best TV episodes of a show I've ever seen in my life. It's so good. It's laugh, cry, laugh, cry. I mean, and John Berenthal is in it. There's got quite a cast in that role, and John Berenthal plays a great role in in The Bear. But my point being is uh back to the news story itself, is yeah, this is great because these writers are fantastic. And what makes me excited about that is that's the kind of touch we need for the X-Men. We need those nuances that the person from The Bear that will bring about these characters, because we don't want I don't want my cyclops to be one-sided anymore. You know, these guys I'm not saying Marsden did a bad job. I think he was the closest to doing the best, to be honest. Um, obviously he's probably the best cyclops we've ever had, and hopefully, you know, we're gonna see more and be even better. Uh, but yeah, to be able to have that nuance in there, especially when it comes down to him and Gene's relationship. I think that the bear rider is perfect for that. It's perfect for the the bear rider is perfect for the inner dynamics of a family that's going through something really hard that has inner turmoil, but still finds a way to bind itself together because that's what the bear is about. And that's the X-Men folks. So let's get that. Let's I like to see that inner turmoil between each other where there's you know, there there might be some struggles on how they work together, what they decide to do, but ultimately they're a family that work together for a bigger purpose. And in the and in the bear, it's like those epic moments where they come together and it all works. You want to stand up and collab for them because they're like, Yes, good for you. And that's how we want to feel when it comes down to an X-Men movie. We want to be cheering at the end of the movie, like, yes, you're the X-Men. You know what I mean? Like we want that, and and makes all their little inner moments inside makes those bigger moments even better because they'll feed into each other. Yeah, and Beef will bring that writer will bring the spontaneity of something new, bigger swings, something crazy that makes who I can't believe that just happened. And then they'll be able to bring it in with the other. I think it's a great choice. You know, it's I mean, it's either a great choice or this will be their first mistake because from what I consider what these two people have been involved with, it's been fantastic television. So I can only imagine it's gonna be a fantastic movie in that sense. It gives me a little bit of light because I dread this X-Men movie probably more than anybody else. Um, I know Sam's close by, but I really dread it. He's seen it in my eyes when we talk X-Men. I almost don't want it to happen. The light is going, it's dimming. But this gives me, okay, hey, look, if you put the right people behind it, you are gonna get a good movie at the very least. And this shows me that they are at the very least taking it very seriously because these are very serious writers with two very seriously epic good shows for sure. I highly suggest seeing if you watch The Bear. I really do. You yeah, you'd like it a lot.

SPEAKER_00 39:00

I will. I I I am curious. I was curious about it for a while, but now that I know that these are gonna be some of the same creative minds behind writing the X-Men, which is like so near and dear to my heart, um, that I definitely want to see what what their style is like. You will be excited, I promise.

SPEAKER_01 39:18

Because you'll be like, those are the depths I want them to go in with X-Men. Yeah. You'll see what they're doing.

SPEAKER_00 39:24

So the thing that struck me about this news, uh, because I I'm glad that my brother broke down these two people and what they're they're credited for with Beef and the Bear and things like that. Um, because I didn't know anything about them to that regard. But when Jake Schreyer says that he wants ideology and soap opera drama to take center stage, two things come out at me about that. Uh, soap opera, I'll touch upon as the first thing. X-Men, anyone who reads X-Men comics, it is nothing but a soap opera. And some people, that's that's cool, that's good, and it works great for the comics themselves. I mean, how many times in the comics has Gene Grey died and come back to life? How many times now in the movies has Xavier died and come back to life? So, like, I mean, soap opera stuff is kind of baked inside X-Men. It's just finding a way to make that appealing to your broader audience. And I think that if these um writers are any indication of what you just said, they'll know how to take the best elements of that and put it into a worthy script for the X-Men. That's what my hope is, and that's what I'm I'm looking forward to in that regard. The ideology part is the only part I would say that concerns me a little bit, only because in this hyper-politicized world that we live in now, and X-Men definitely touched their her whole core was on civil rights and touching upon the times of things and why they're using mutants as an example, a fictional example of the differences between us as regular humans and how we could coexist or not coexist. That's the only part that I am just worried about because we get enough of politics in our daily life that when I go to watch an X-Men film, yes, touch upon it because that's gonna be what it's supposed to be about. But my worry is they decide to weaponize that into an agenda for us to shove down our throats for the two and a half hours we're watching this movie. So what I will say to um to kind of combat that a little bit is I love what Fox did with the X-Men in that regard. They made it where it was mutants versus humans, and some of those social political struggles they were there, they were front and center, but they didn't alienate anyone, watch them. It didn't matter what side of the political spectrum you are or the social spectrum you are, you could watch those films and you don't feel like you're being attacked on uh either side. And I think if they take that same approach and blueprint that they had in the Fox X-Men, because let's face it, Fox is actually a great example when it comes to, oh, did these work? Did they not work? Um, did the X-Men work? Did the Fantastic Four work? That's a great example because Fantastic Four did not work. And you see how many times they tried to reboot it to make it work, and they just couldn't do that formula the way the Marvel so far has been able to do. But X-Men did work. The creative team behind that with Brian Singer, sometimes Simon Kimberg. I have to say sometimes. I'm sorry, dude, but you do have some bad taste in my mouth still, and Lana Donna Schumer, and some of these other people that were the creative geniuses behind the X-Men films. It worked. Matthew Vaughn comes in mind, I think it's Matthew Vaughn, who's a director of First Class.

SPEAKER_01 42:47

Yeah, yeah, Matthew Vaughn. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:48

And don't forget Fungy, which got you right. Yes, from the beginning. He was, yes. Yeah, he was a producer on them too. So, like they had some blueprint that actually gained the fan following, such as my brother and I, where we're so passionate about them, and we actually liked some of the creative things that he did with them. We want to see some things change a little bit and maybe expand upon. Cyclops is a good example, you know, give Storm a little bit more of a front type thing. But like, other than that, um, you have to be able to blend that that connected with everybody in with whatever this quote unquote ideology is that you're gonna be doing. So that's my only worry going into this is are they able to do as successful in that front that Fox was able to do? Because regardless if you like the Fox X-Men or not, some you loved, some you hated, they were pretty consistent on that part, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_02 43:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:41

So that other than that, though, everything else so far, it sounds really cool. And um, Jake Schreier showed he was a great director, and I think to a degree a writer on the Thunderbolts, maybe not a writer, but I'm not sure. He was definitely great at that film, and I see why it highlighted from Marvel oh, we can use you for. For a bigger team than Thunderbolts type thing. And so I'm I'm excited to see what that's gonna be like. And I'm excited to see these things. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:10

I I'm hoping, look, excuse me, like with you, I'm hoping I that when they talk about the ideal, ideological stuff in there, I'm hoping they're still just referencing on the how they work on their personal dynamics with it being mixed in. Um yeah, I I think it we're gonna be very uh surprised to see what they do. Hopefully they keep us in interested. You know, there's the characters of Magnino and Xavier are the two that hinge the most on how you feel about them, about ideals of where it comes from. And if we if that's not believable or felt like it's earned, then that's where the X-Men will fail. Their arrests just fall into place because they follow those two. But if we don't believe either of those two in what they're talking about or feel like it's an earned situation or an earned topic, then that's where it's gonna fail the most.

SPEAKER_00 45:02

And I'm telling you, Fox and Brian Singer got that right. No, so that it was uh like the chef's kiss you talked about earlier. That for that was a chef's kiss for them in particular.

SPEAKER_01 45:12

Just just Patrick Stewart saying something wholesome as as Professor Xavier makes me tear up.

SPEAKER_00 45:18

It's amazing. And what gave me so much. What gave me hope in that is when Professor Um Patrick Stewart as Xavier in Doctor Strange Multiverse Madness said the same line that is echoed throughout all uh all of Xavier's sentiments in the Fox films. That gave me hope that at least Marvel recognizes, Marvel Studios recognizes there is something about those Fox movies that we want to definitely ingrain in our version of them. It's just how they're gonna do it.

SPEAKER_01 45:46

I have no doubt they know why we love them and they know what worked. Yeah. I think their problem is how do they mix it in with what they've started in the MCU now? Yeah. I think that's what their their biggest hurdle is. Now, how do we get them in this in this universe that makes sense? And then it's easy to go with, you know.

SPEAKER_00 46:03

So we'll see how it goes. All right. Well, uh, moving on from that, why don't you take it away? These are now, these are some of our honorable mentions. We have uh three of them to discuss with you, so why don't you start off with the first one? So Marvel Animation reveals a promo poster of X-Men 97, season two. All right. So um, from my understanding of this, and I don't know, have you watched the first season of 97? I actually have, yeah. What are your thoughts on that?

SPEAKER_01 46:29

I like it. I think it's good. I think it's uh I struggle with cartoons these days. It reminds me so much of the old one, clearly, because that's what they're trying to do. That it was a good thing to put on in the background and enjoy and watch. And it just makes me want that cyclops so much more. Yeah, Cyclops is so awesome. That is amazing. Cyclops is so good, and it's and I think, and because they're doing it with that, I know they know that's how you're supposed to do Cyclops. So, folks, we're gonna get some great James Mars and Cyclops stuff coming, I promise. I think I I really am convinced that that's gonna be awesome. So, yeah, I'm excited for it. Like I said, it's not top-tier excitement for me because cartoons and I have a weird relationship. Um, but it's X-Men. So um, you know, I like the nostalgia feeling of it. I enjoy it a lot. I think it's a lot of fun. I think they're gonna bring some new characters that are like new characters of now and put them in like an old style feeling, which I think will be really cool.

SPEAKER_00 47:24

Yeah, yeah, I agree. I liked the reboot of 97. I will imagine I will not imagine. I already saw it. It was good. So uh I did like it. I liked that um what they did with it. There is I had a couple critiques about it myself personally, but that was that's not anything that made take took away from my whole experience of watching it because some of those episodes, like um, spoiler alert, Gambit's death. Oh my gosh, that was just what a good episode. Emma Frost finally getting her second mutation, which shows that she's gonna be around a little bit longer. She's one of my favorite mutants of all time, by the way. So uh whenever I see something related to her on the screen, whether it's cartoon form or movie form, I either am super critical or I'm eating it up. So um, but it's just the first season I thought was really done well. I didn't like some of the creative choices they did, but I also they took some big swings for some of these episodes, and I did like the creative choices they did. So um it definitely, regardless of how you felt about that first season, it ended on a big cliffhanger on what what the heck is gonna happen. And it was a cliffhanger that everyone unanimously said, we want to see what the next next thing is gonna be. And this teaser poster of season two, which we haven't got on a trailer, but the trailer is out online on leaked cell phone footage because of the New York Comic-Con that happened last year. They showed it, but they never officially released it. So if you were one of those people that did see it, we're not gonna show that footage right now until they actually release it. But from what I did see, it was really good looking. It was, and I'm excited for the action when it comes out officially. I'm excited for some things they alluded to, such as Apocalypse coming back and things like that. He's one of my favorite characters, but I like the version of Apocalypse in the the anime cartoons from the 90s, and it sounds like they're bringing that same one back. Sweet. And again, that does not translate well for the movies. So anyone who doesn't like X-Men Apocalypse of film, yeah, I'm sorry. I I have to disagree with you on that. But anyway, so I'm not gonna get into that right now. We're gonna save that for that. That's a that's a hot take, according to everybody else. Yeah. Well, that's a hot take I'm willing to burn on because that's passionate. Anyways, so um, cool. I like seeing the first official glimpse released to the public. I'm excited. I am sure that by San Diego Comic-Con this year, we're gonna see a full trailer. If not, I believe the whole season is supposed to come out during the summer. So they might even premiere the episode there, and then it just starts on from there. We don't know their schedule, but I'm excited to see it. Um, yeah. I had the privilege too, I will just say, as an honorable mention, in this honorable mention, of meeting the cast of this show um at a comic convention um a couple years ago. I went with two of my best friends um to Rhode Island again, great comic convention, and I have those pictures proudly displayed in my um office and in my uh living room of meeting Lenore Zan and uh there's just oh childhood memories just coming to life. I'm gonna say Comic Con with them. I kind of wish I didn't, but yeah, we're all good people. Yeah, well, he's he's gotta go to the next one whenever we go again because they're just fun to do, they're great fan experiences. And yeah, we'll do a bunch of clips from it too for you folks if we go. Oh, totally. Yes, yes. So um, yeah, that's that's my two that's my two cents on that. Sure. So I'm gonna read the next one too, Sam, since I I can't see the others, so you can do this one.

SPEAKER_01 50:53

Okay. You got it. So next one here in Ubuntu and Marvel News, okay. Marvel's television boss joins the escape podcast to discuss behind the scenes deets on She-Hulk, zombies, and more. Yeah, so in that, do you have anything to say before I jump in? Sure. Um, I will say this. I I haven't watched these guys. I just discovered uh this podcast and they get my blood pressure up a lot. So no offense to you guys, you guys are doing great. Sometimes you have fakes that make me want to reach through the screen and just pull you down to the table. And uh, but I think that's the point, and that's you guys are doing a great job. So keep doing what you're doing because it's very entertaining. Um, also uh like awesome guests that you get for sure. Um, but I did go and I made sure to watch his clip for today so I knew what was being said. And I don't understand this guy who's doing this. Uh this this is what kind of fuels my frustration with the TV stuff. He wants more She-Hulk. Like, what did he watch what he made, what they made? I mean, it's not good, guys. I mean, everybody knows it's not good. I know there might be people that could say it's not as bad as you say, and I'm with you, but deep down, dig down deep, guys. That was awful, and he knows it, he wants more of that. I mean, maybe he wants to correct it. Hey, you know what? Do another season and make it better. I'm in, I'll give him a shot. I like a lot of the stuff from it. There's things that she hawked that worked a lot. She's great as the character. CGI was okay. I can I can let CGI go for it being a TV show, you know. Uh uh the abomination stuff was iffy, but you had Tim Ross. That's a big actor, you know. Uh Juan was very fun in it. I think he fit in that kind of realm real well. Other than that, it's a real crappy show, guys. So I just started watching zombies actually this week for fun. Uh I'm not because I was never gonna watch it, but I turned it on. And it's a good time. I would definitely want more zombies. I think it's a good time for an else world or or just this, you know, it's it has nothing to do with anything. Just have fun with your characters. I've enjoyed what I've seen. You know, once again, it's an animation thing for me, but it's been fun to have on in the background. And I I watched one actually the other night and I surprisingly was invested. I'm like, wow, this is really good. Yeah, you know, so yeah, give us more of the zombies. I will take more of that for sure. That's the kind of stuff I want to see as this. Really, I want the X-Men 97s, I want the zombies, I want the what if show to be longer, actually. You know, uh she halt. No, no, I don't want that, you know. So that's all I have to say about that.

SPEAKER_00 53:31

To to piggyback off of what you uh uh said, um well, first I'm gonna I have to mention I do watch the escape pod podcast. I like what I started watching their clips when they were pulling up on my YouTube, and then after that, I'm like, I gotta see more of these guys because like like we are, we're Marvel nerds. I'm a huge Marvel nerd. So the meet two Marvel nerds through my phone would be like, oh my gosh, you're doing the podcast that we want to do type of thing, you know, and now we're doing it. So I think that's really cool. I um I commend you guys for doing putting on a good show. And yeah, my blood gets boiling too. But what I love about it is that sometimes you hit points that my brother and I are saying, but it's not generally out there. And so I appreciate those other voices, but then you say things that I'm like, oh, why?

SPEAKER_01 54:19

Their take on the Dark Knight universe with Christopher Nolan, you guys.

SPEAKER_00 54:24

And this is no hate, by the way. This is just us, uh, everyone has different opinions.

SPEAKER_01 54:29

You're one of nine people that feel that way, just so you know. You guys are great, but there's nobody else feels that way about those movies except you guys.

SPEAKER_00 54:39

Yeah, but you even then, like I I appreciate you guys. I love tuning into your episodes and everything. So, and I I did watch this full episode because I do like watching them anyways, and um I think this is this is really cool that you had the um the TV boss on for Marvel, and um I I was very interested to hear his takes on some of those shows that did not re do well, and She-Hulk was one of them because I I have a love-hate relationship with a She-Hulk show. The love part is I love She-Hulk so much that I want I was anticipating her show, and then when we got it, I'm like, okay, strong first episode. When we do a retrospective of the She-Hawk show, because we are in our March to Doomsday. Um we'll dive into that a little bit more, but there's just I am I would like to talk to someone that um Brad here had mentioned. I think his name is Brad, right? Did I get it wrong? I am so sorry if I got it wrong, but I don't know if it's on my own.

SPEAKER_02 55:42

Yeah, we didn't even put it down.

SPEAKER_00 55:43

Anyways, um, I'm just gonna say your name is Brad for the moment. Yeah, I would I would love to see someone who is not a fan of Marvel that just likes television in general or comedies in general or things like that. I would love to hear their two cents on the show if it's exactly what Brad said it was in that episode, where according to him, it hit with a general audience really well and is one of their highest performing shows, but the fans did not like it. And obviously, this is a good example of your fans are your base. And if you get your fans excited about something and liking something, you will get more people that aren't even normal casual fans of the show to start liking it. So it's interesting for me to hear that when you type in She-Hawk on YouTube, you see all the negative stuff about her. Some of it is kind of uncalled for, I agree, but also some of it is kind of valid. And um, to hear that this is one of internally one of their highest rated shows, I want to meet someone who's watched a show and just likes it and doesn't know a thing about Marvel because I just have not yet met someone like that. That's an interesting, it's an interesting inquiry.

SPEAKER_01 56:55

Yeah, I I agree. I think they're gonna hate it just as even more because it it leans so hard on needing to be in that Marvel universe. But the problem with it is it's I think you're gonna get you know, somewhere between the eight to sixteen-year-old uh younger kids that would find it more appealing because it's almost like a TikTok the whole show. It's so ridiculous and out there and jokey, it's not serious. But that's your general audience you're getting for that. And that's been this this will go, we'll get into it more when we talk about the next news one, too. This has been my whole beef with the TV show thing in general, is you're catering to a specific audience with the TV shows on purpose, and I get it, do that, but that's not what your agenda is with the movies, uh so your movies, you've done a very good job at making them accessible to everybody almost every time. You know, when you make Guardians of Galaxy, you got young kids to people that are 60 saying this is awesome, right? You're not gonna get that six-year-old liking She-Hulk, he's not gonna like it, you know, and you might get the young kid to like it. So then if She-Hulk has anything to do with the universe, there's your problem. Here's your issue. It's it's just the clarity of where that universe of the TV show stands and the line with the movies is the issue that we have on whether we like these shows or not. I'm definitely a heck of a lot more uh critical about the show, thinking that I'm gonna need to know this as I go into the movies. If I watch this show knowing it has zero things to do with the movies, and it's just a show to watch, I wouldn't have been as hard on it.

SPEAKER_00 58:49

I'd have been like, that's unique, not for me. Pretty cool, go watch it. Yeah, I think that's the I think, in my opinion, that's the that's the point. I don't mind. I actually kind of like this idea of what the original intent of the Disney Plus shows were. You take those, uh, what people would view as the B and C tier characters that aren't your your breadwinners, the Kahoma film type thing, and you want to explore what they're like while you have those actors here still portraying them and do a six to nine episode thing, sometimes half hour, sometimes an hour, depending on what it is. I think that's really cool. The only the only thing gripe I have on it is when they start saying you have to watch the show in order to get the next movie. Because, like you said, everything from movie-wise, you could jump from movie to movie, and you have the great experience. Sometimes, yeah, for the hardcore fans, you have to know what happened in the movie prior to that, but you didn't have to watch a whole show prior to that to figure it out. And what I like about the show thing too is like you have Kamala Khan, Ms. Marvel, you have Daredevil, two completely opposite type of characters with their own unique style. And if you like those characters from the comics, or you like that style of TV shows, you will like those uh those shows. But then when you put them into the movies, I don't want to have to re-re-watch those shows or educate myself on both characters to enjoy them in the movie. And I think that's what Marvel has done wrong.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:17

Well, what yeah, what they've done wrong is not so much what you don't want to do, it's that they've never made it clear to you if you have to or because it's one thing to be like that doesn't I don't want to either. But if they told us from the start that we had to, then we'd understand that okay, we got to accept this and do what we can do. And we probably would have, when I'm board, still been as critical about it, but at least we know what we're getting means something later. Yeah. Because I mean, I loved the first season of Loki, loved it until I found out it really isn't that important. And then, oh, there's things that happened to Loki that made me think, why is this not in a movie? When it branched off in there, and I'm like, oh my god, this is huge for the Marvel universe. Come to find out it's not that big a deal because no, it's not really part of it. Wait a minute. But now is it with it? Now it is, right? Because when we go into Doomsday, Loki's supposed to be. So do I not have to see any of Loki to go to Doomsday? They haven't told us this yet or not. Or yet they have actually said and they've even gone back on it with Wanda. We'll talk about it in the next one. It's like the WandaVision thing. It's like, hey, you don't need to see WandaVision to watch Doctor Strange Multiverse and Madness. Yeah, yeah. You don't, you really don't. Although the kids thing was kind of like, oh, whoa, where'd that come from? But you really didn't have to see WandaVision. I get it. You know, but if you want to know anything about vision still being alive, you'd need to see WandaVision.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:39

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:40

Right? Thankfully, this next thing we're gonna talk about is a show. But yeah, for the Wanda point of view, we actually have firsthand experience with someone who didn't watch the show and went into Doctor Strange thinking, yeah, what's this of Wanda? She's a villain now, she has kids. What's all this? What movie did I miss? And be like, you didn't miss a movie. It was an epic show, probably one of their best rated shows, in my opinion, they've ever done. But the fact that you had to know the show in order to watch Doctor Strange Multiverse of Madness to know where Wanda's coming from, that was the problem. Yeah. And I think that if they didn't do that, it would have made that movie 10 times better than what it was.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:13

It's like, guys, if you want free range and you want this guy here, Brian, let's call him, hopefully it's his name. If he wants more She-Hulk the way that they did it, then something you need to just come out and say, okay, guys, let's be clear. As of right now, you don't need to see the shows to watch the movies. You just don't. And then be and stick to that. Or you do need to see the shows and stick to that. Because that's where the confusion's coming in. I don't want another She-Hulk because to me, I think it's irrelevant personally.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:45

So I don't know. That's kind of how I feel about it.

unknown 1:02:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:49

All right. Well, and by the way, on all these, and we haven't mentioned it yet, but if you have um your two cents on these things and opinions, please tell us in the comments below. Like and subscribe to this video too, because we definitely need that for growing our channel. And we're gonna move on to the last honorable mention of our news segment right now. And um, I did not put this on the paper, so I'm gonna do the best I can to read it from as far away as I am right now. But it looks like Marvel Studios has trademarked something called Infinity Vision. This happened at the end of March, and there is a lot of speculation of what this actually is, I guess. Under the trademark, from what this is reported, by the way, from what this is um referring to is something of the studios of a movie themselves. Now, it's it is unclear if this is the title of a television episode of Vision Quest that's coming out later this year called Infinity Vision. If this is a new name for the Vision Quest called Infinity Vision, we have no idea. But it is an official trademark thing now that Marvel Studios has put in. So it is something they're gonna be doing with it. It could even be a what if episode that they're just filming, we have no idea, too, because that plays on to what what if was showing is that there's what if ultra and had won and had from Age of Ultra and all that stuff, so there's a lot of tie-ins to that too. But regardless of it, Ike, what is your two cents on this news?

SPEAKER_01 1:04:12

Yeah, I really don't care. Um, it's I would love more Paul Bettney as uh vision. I think he's great as it. I don't think they know what to do with this character. I think that they brought him back and won the vision just so they could have reason to have him in it again if they wanted to. And I like I told you at the beginning before we even started, I'm like, vision's still alive? You know, it's like vision who? You know, it's like, oh yeah, that guy. Yeah, yeah, it's just been so long now. Where um, yeah, I don't know. I don't think they know what to do with him. You know, I don't I don't think they've ever treated him in the way that made a lot of sense, anyways. Um I think he's a great character. I love seeing him in the movies. I think they've always struggled with how powerful do we make him, how powerful do we don't. So we need to write his character in a way where he doesn't use his powers because of certain choices he makes, because he's kind of too powerful. But we're starting to hit that with the MCU right now, anyways, where we got some major powerful players, and you kind of just like at what point is too powerful too powerful? You know, we got like three different kinds of Superman level people in the MCU right now, kind of. So let's, you know, yeah, let's get let's be careful about what we do with them because then you're gonna have to start dumbing some of them down, or what you call nerfing them, right? Which is gonna make people upset. And at the same time, you know, you can't put some of these people against others, you know. So I don't know what they're gonna do when Gene Gray becomes a phoenix, because that's it right there, folks. You know, but of course they're not gonna do that though, because there's always gonna be someone more powerful, right? So I don't know. I think that's the that's the crazy thing about what's going on right now. So I'd I'd be curious I'm curious, I'd like to see what they're gonna do. It'd be nice to know just out of curiosity. Mm-hmm. But frankly, I got no kind of stake in this. I don't know how legit I think they're just saying it to make people think he's to keep him relevant because I still don't think they really know what to do with him, to be honest with you. You know, he's not in these next two movies, that's not gonna make any sense either. You know, it's like there's certain things that aren't gonna make sense with him just gone right now. He's just white vision. Where is he even? Like they're not talking about this, no one's talked about this. It's it's one of those things that Marvel's done where they've overstepped and they're not sure what to do, so they just do nothing. So then later when they do something, they can't say they have continuity problems, which in itself is a continuity problem. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:39

So from from my understanding of this show, and if I I don't know exactly where I heard this from, but from from my understanding at least, and please correct me if I'm wrong in the comments below, if this isn't an actual thing and this is just something that someone rumored to be out there said, um, Vision Quest is the last show that Marvel has done or is doing currently that has to tie into the MCU film continuity. Is that official that they've kind of said the last thing that I knew of was that was the last one that they already had in production, then they couldn't backtrack on it or fix it or do anything like that where they had to do that.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:16

So we have to take to heart.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:18

We do, yeah. Ironheart's gonna have some hot takes there when we get there, folks. And that's gonna be that's gonna probably be this November by the time we get to it, because that's so later on. But anyways, um when we get to that retrospective, so bad. But yes, apparently that has something to do with the MCU too. But I um I I'm excited to see Ultron from what I've heard of it, even on that escape pod episode, he talked about um Vision Quest, and that he's just been reviewing some of the episodes or something like that, and they're fantastic, they're phenomenal. And I'm excited. I like James Spader as Ultron. When we get to that movie, we'll definitely talk more about him. But then knowing that he's returning as that villain, which is a really great villain, by the way. Um, I am excited for some of those things. I'm curious exactly how they're gonna do this show. So I'm taking it with a grain of salt going into it. And I know this is supposed to be the conclusion of their three-show trilogy of WandaVision, Agatha All Along, and Vision Quest. So we're gonna see how that results at the end of the day. But yeah, bringing Ultron back's weird, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:08:25

I mean, I hope he's just kind of like a voice inside him that is part of him still, and just like tries to you know, like the good guy on one shoulder, bad guy on the other, and Ultron's just kind of like talking crap to him. I think that'd be kind of fun, you know.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:38

I always believe the Ultron was still there. Uh he's artificial intelligence, and yeah, the division locked him out in of the internet in Age of Ultron, but who doesn't know if he has a back copy? Like, come on, he's Ultron, he's supposed to be super. Yeah, and Sweden kind of did him dirty in Ultron and Age of Ultron, so it'd be kind of nice to have him. It'd be nice to see him back, and I like James Spader as a so I think that's pretty cool. So I'm I am excited to see that. I'm a little nervous about the CGI, depending on how they're bringing Ultron back, because that would be um for a TV show. That's one of the things we talked about for She-Hulk, because that when you hear these shows having the budget of a movie, oh, that sounds cool, but then you think about it, these shows are three times longer than the movie when you cut them down. So your budget really should have been a little bit bigger if you're gonna do the CGI epics type thing. Yeah, agreed. Uh either, anyways, just to put a pin on that, I I personally think this is just an episode title of the Vision Quest show, unless anything official comes out of it that they're changing it, which that probably will be something at San Diego Comic-Con. I don't think that's a um uh Cinemacon thing they're gonna be talking about because it's Disney Plus. It has nothing to do with cinemas, but maybe um this is definitely a this is definitely a a uh San Diego thing. Definitely if if anything, San Diego or they have D kind of they have D23, which is like a month about a month later. That's a Disney owned thing. That's where I could see something like this being announced. But anyways, guys, question is for you. What do you think about all of our news of the week so far? What do you think of this episode so far? If you're watching this as a segment, you could watch a full episode right now um on our YouTube or listen to us wherever you stream. But what do you think of our multiverse minutes of this week? Comment and like down below.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:28

Hello, guys. Welcome to Goodell Multiverse. We're here gonna do our branch point breakdown of Daredevil Season 2, episode 4.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:38

Yes, yes, we are really excited for this. Um, so what are your first initial thoughts? Spoiler warning, by the way. And if you're just joining us for the first time, we do have an audio version of the podcast. You can hear a full episode. If you're just watching this clip, we have a full video episode we're uploading too. So please keep track of that. Like and subscribe and comment. It really helps us out with the algorithm and gets us out there. And yes, spoiler warning for Daredevil Born Again Season 2, episode 4 on our branch point breakdown. So, what are your initial thoughts?

SPEAKER_01 1:11:10

So, my initial thoughts, um, I like this episode. This was a very good episode. Uh, its cinematography is great, um, which isn't something we've ever had a hard time with with this show so far. This is definitely keeping my interest. Uh I love the opening fight scene when he kicks uh crap out of the when Bullseye kicks the crap out of those agents. Um, I like I like the violence that it has set up. I have concerns about how big and grand the situation is getting. Uh other than that, I'm I'm enjoying it a lot. I I think they're taking some big swings, which makes me think don't be surprised, folks, if season three is the final season of what you're gonna get out of this. I really think it will be. Um, I don't think the show is much without both Fisk and Daredevil. Um, I think you can have a lot of characters come in and out, but I think the minute you end Fisk's or you know, uh Kingpin's storyline, you're kind of gonna get rid of the magic the show's got. And you're only gonna be able to do so much with Kingpin before it's like, okay, when are we gonna start repeating things? So I don't see the show having four, five, six seasons. I really don't. At least not without getting repetitive and boring. Because right now it's good. Um, but how much in this is gonna keep going? And if you build up and build up to something big and then it doesn't really happen, that's kind of where a lot of these TV shows lose me. So I'm complaining about something that's not happening yet. I just see the formula so far, and right now we're in the middle of the formula where it always works well until what's this really gonna mean? So I don't know how do you feel about it, but let's let's instead talk about the show at a whole. I'll say the episode was good, lots of chances, big things to come, but it makes me worry we're only episode four and it's big things to come, and it's like, but how big can you get, you know, without including other characters and then not including other characters that we can't have in the shows, I guess. So what do you think, Sammy?

SPEAKER_00 1:13:23

Well, I have a little bit of a theory about that. So what I will say is the the original Netflix show, and I think this is like a general sentiment out there, and I'm not saying this in any diss at all, because I do like season two of the Daredevil Netflix show. But season two of that show did not involve or revolve around Kingpin. I think he appeared in one episode as like, oh, I'm still here, and then he made this grand entrance in season three of that saying, I'm your big boss again, like I was in the first season. A lot of people online, when they're like rating each season of Daredevil, including Born Again, they always have season one of the original show, season three, born again season one, and then season two of the original show. So I think there's an audience for the show without Kingpin. I liked season two of the Netflix one, but the season two of that one, it introduced us to Frank Castle for the first half, and it introduced us to Electra and the Hand in the second half. And I found the ninja stuff in particular very riveting because Charlie Cox got to really display his martial arts skills using those things. And obviously, we're seeing the hand to some degree return in the MCU with a Spider-Man brand new day that we already that's what it looks like. Ninjas are definitely a coming, but is it the hand in particular? That's yet to be determined. But I nah 95% sure it's the hand. But anyways, so I think that I do think that the show could go on without Kingpin. I don't know how interesting for the general audience it would be, though. And that's something that the writers are gonna have to definitely tackle if they're gonna continue the show and say Kingpin is done after season two. I don't think he's done it after season two in the Boring Gun, by the way, guys. Whatever's gonna happen at the end of this season, it's gotta be something pretty big where they're filming the defenders in season three for a reason they have to come back. The only time they came together as a group in the Netflix show was for the hand. And spoiler alert for that, they end up defeating the hand at the end of that season. So it's all but it's now in retrospect, are they defeated as in they lost the battle but didn't win the war type thing, or is it disbanded? That's yet to be determined. But I think that if they are planning a season four onward, because they're already doing season three, that's greenlit, they're filming it, it's a done deal type of thing. I think whatever happens in season three that gets defenders together is gonna be the launching point for Daredevil doing something other than fighting Fisk all the time. And so I'm curious to see exactly what that's gonna entail. Um but uh regardless, going to this episode in particular, this is one of my favorite episodes of the season so far. And I'm gonna make a bold statement right here that of the MCU villains, Bullseye is definitely within the top tier now. If you could, if you look at these scenes and how his you see how his brain works. We saw it in season three of the original Daredevil show when he debuted. Great way to enter Bullseye. And I love that he's embraced this persona of Bullseye. That's one of the things I think is hard in both the MCU and in the shows, trying to be taken seriously, but also you have this comic booky name. How do you do that? How do you flesh that out? They just went full on board in this show, and it shows so well how it's just you don't need to go into an origin of it. It's just it's just there. His insignia is that bullseye, he's holding that mantle, he's actually starting to look more like the comic book version of bullseye, which I love that uh Marvel's been able to do to not make him look too silly like Batman and Robin, but also serious. And you could show these these comic book pay panels on the screen and it looks good. And Marvel's been able to do that very successfully, so that makes me excited for the X-Men when they do decide to do that. But, anyways, um, this show, fantastic. That that opening scene of Bullseye drinking his milkshake and luring the task force there just to know how to take them all down. And oh my gosh, it was just it was cinematic beauty, in my opinion, for a TV show. This is fantastic, and they we need more bullseye. He is just so good throughout the whole show. He's so good, and it makes it I love about this is that he's not Kingpin's henchman, you know. Sometimes I think in the Ben Affleck movie, it was he was looked at as he was sent by Kingpin, and his origin comes from Kingpin and Daredevil Born or Daredevil season three of the Netflix one. Um, but he is his own character now, where even the Kingpin doesn't want him around, and worse so, like we saw the end of Born Again season one, he is bullseyes willing to kill Fisk and now kill Vanessa, which I did not see coming in this show. And Fisk kind of killed Vanessa, but yeah. I I I tell you what, uh, I I do like Vanessa. I'm one of those people that's like I like their dynamic back and forth. We talked about on the last episode of uh of their relationship and how interesting it is type thing. I did not see her death coming in this show, I did not see it, and I think that how they did it though was tasteful. This wasn't one of those off-handed deaths, this is one of those like another great scene when they're when Fisk is boxing and he's won. Of course he's gonna win. No one ever doubted that. But um to see uh she shows up when she wasn't supposed to, he didn't want her to, and she's like, Too bad I am. And it just shows the boss level mentality that she kind of is, and then to have that whole thing play out like in slow motion with everything, and oh, it just it was so good, and it makes me wonder what's gonna happen in the next episode because now it's I mean, I said that in the beginning that um Vanessa is dead. We really don't know. It looks pretty darn close that she's actually dead, but then again, this is Marvel, and this was just the end of a scene. But when you're laying there in a pool of blood, I think it's safe to assume it's not looking too good for you. Yeah.

unknown 1:19:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:50

But anyways, I like this episode. The things that stuck out to me was that um dramatic death of Vanessa and Bullsey's intense scenes, and I agree with you on the Charlie Cox, the um the Daredevil disguising himself thing. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:05

Well, I love when he disguises himself as one of those, as one of the crew there to go and investigate the crime scene just to get his own clues. That's some smart writing and and great acting by Charlie. Um, yeah, I you know, I don't know if I share your same enthusiasm for Bullseye. I will tell you, I enjoy him a lot, though. I have no problems with him, and I I I wouldn't put him up against some of the MCU guys, though, um mostly because it is a show. As of the TV shows, he's probably one of the best villains we got, for sure. But he's almost not a villain, right? Like he is and he isn't, you know, he's kind of on his own side, which is which is which is something I actually kind of like about this guy. Although I feel like he's not as smart as he should be. You know, Matt kind of gives it to him in this one: the whole, hey, look, if you kill him, you're just gonna martyr him. And that's worse than letting him live. And I think bullseye should know that, right? Like he should understand that. But of course, I think we're dealing with someone that's a little more unhinged, though. And I think that we need to see a little more of that. So I agree. Give us more bullseye, show us a little more of him being a little wild, because I feel like he is wild, and I and I liked that feel of him. And um, yeah, I it's a big deal. I think she's dead. I mean, if she's not, then it's a fake out. And how many more of those are you gonna do for us? You know, that's where I start losing. Oh, now you're crying wolf, you know, and that's my issue with TV shows, is they do this often. Um, and I'm always gonna be very critical, folks, and I'm sorry, I it's just a natural thing in me. I've watched too many TV shows that do this to me. And and Marvel is no exception, just because it's cool and fun, it it can still be boring. And this isn't so far. And yeah, I can't wait to see. I mean, he's unhinged now. I mean, what the heck is Fisk gonna do? She's kind of the one that kept him together, really. She kind of held back the dogs, right? In him when it was necessary, and she could call the dogs out of him if if she needed to, or felt like it was necessary. So now if she's dead, he's gonna just lose, he's just gonna do whatever he's you know.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:09

That's that's the cool thing I think about this episode that they really tied into it, is that the the governor is not on the same side as Wilson Fisk. No. And Vanessa goes to visit the governor, and the the at the end of their conversation, she says, I can't be get behind Mayor Fisk, but I could get behind Mayor, Mayor, and Mrs. Fisk.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:29

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:30

So it's like she it's funny that I mean we said in the last episode that she's not as diplomatic as Wilson is type thing, but I think she has a little more so of that in her where she at least she's showing him I am an asset to you type thing. And I think that her soft approach to some of these things, the against his crass or his demeanor, really it plays again, like I said in the last episode, to a lot of real life events too, where you might not like this one politician, but then you see him with his family, and you're like, oh, they're they're not that bad, you know, type thing. It's the people you have around you. And I think that that was they think that was really cool and pivotal because now you have the governor now backing the mayor because of the wife, and now the wife is dead. Now what's gonna happen?

SPEAKER_01 1:23:20

Yeah, I don't I don't know if it's so much as she's more diplomatic or is if it's the visual of it. Because we see behind the scenes of her that they don't, if you think character-wise, they don't see that part of her. I'll go uh once I'll go back and reference to the other show that we talked about last time, which was uh House of Cards. Oh, where she definitely was not as diplomatic as him, but she definitely helped him get a lot of places because it was her and she had a good face. But she was definitely the evil of the two of them. She was worse. Yeah. And and that's how I felt with this too, where she, sure, she puts on that face because she doesn't look appear as the evil one. He looked, he's got bad guy written all over his face. The way he talks, everyone he's around, everyone knows he might some people might believe he's doing the right thing for the city, and that's why they voted him in and all that. But the truth is they're all still kind of like, yeah, but I'd believe it if you told me he was corrupt. Yeah, but he's still helping. But yeah, is he corrupt? Of course he is, but it's still working, right? She, though, you'd have to sell that. You know, you'd have to sell that. She's, oh, she doesn't look evil, which is the worst kind, I think. And and she's obviously not as evil because she does, when it comes down to their relationship, I think she's the most diplomatic in their relationship. You know, she keeps him from doing wild things, I think. And but then once again, that goes to my fear that we're gonna get into is I mean, if it's gonna go all no holds barred, so to say, then what what's the end game, right? Don't promise too many big things because at some point that's gonna run out and then you're gonna be repeating yourself. And I think you're right. I I never say never. There couldn't be a show here without him. That's true. Although my argument is when you have a show that's I will say Daredevil Born Again is working because it is with him. And I'm not saying you can't end that and move on, but that's it, that's a risk you do in a TV show. The Walking Dead did that when they killed off the Shane character, um, and it kind of didn't do well in some people's eyes afterwards. I had a hard time with it too, because the whole dynamic of that was working. There's lots of shows that if you give the promise of this premise, you know, a good example is like Sons of Anarchy. Spoiler, if you haven't seen it, it's as old as hell, guys. Go watch it. It's good to watch, but my the issue with the show is the whole idea is the main character finding out that the guy in charge of the bike club really killed his dad, you know? And the what was the best parts of the show was him not knowing, but us knowing and him almost finding out and us seeing how they cover it up over and over again. Some reason part way through this show, they decided to, well, it's gonna let him know, and it's you know, he's vowed that he's gonna kill the man who killed his father. And then he finds out who it is, and then we go five more seasons of him finding out reasons why not to kill the guy. And frankly, it was kind of like, oh, so that wasn't that important. And that's kind of what it's gonna feel like, even if you know, it's better off if you do end fisk, you end fisk and then move on. Don't end it with like he's still out there, but he just lost his position. Because then it's gonna feel like, well, you you promised things that you couldn't deliver at this point. You know, it's it's don't get repetitive, take chances here, you know, get big. If you're gonna go big, if you're gonna allude to big, then let's get to that big. Don't be like, but there's one more thing, and there's one more thing, and there's one more thing, because eventually we're gonna be like, yeah, there's one more thing, like 20 times ago. What's the thing that's gonna be that breaking point? You know, and where's the new Avengers in Spider-Man if the defenders are gonna show up? You're just gonna have a group of vigilante guys all at war with the mayor of New York City and there's no Spider-Man and I get it, guys. I know I'm complaining. It's like talking into the wind with it because we're not, we can't have those characters. But that's kind of like, you know, then why is Punisher in the new Spider-Man movie? And why does he even show up in a Spider-Man MCU proper? So that's that's those are my issues I have with it, but I'm trying to do my best to pull back from that because it is a show. Um so to bring it back and not worry about the bigger picture, because I am so nervous about it's so crazy. I have that problem. I get real nervous about the creative decisions they make. I would rather be a slower burn and not give us these big moments and have a big moment ending. Like to me, this episode felt like a season finale. Not um episode four of holy cow. I mean so we're gonna go through three episodes now of him being distraught that she's dead, and that folks is gonna get boring for me because we know it's cookie cutter, and let's not be cookie cutter because so far you haven't been. So, and I'm not saying they're gonna be, I'm just guessing you gotta have a lot of filler. I mean, so at this point, what's stopping him from saying, I don't even care what people think, I'm in charge, I'm gonna do the hell I want. Other than the Mr. Charles stuff, obviously that stuff's all gonna escalate. But how far does it go before you start realizing, okay, you can only hit a pinnacle of something too far where you know it's gotta stop, or there has to be an end two-way character somewhere, you know? So yeah, this this felt like a wow, what a great season finale. And it it's not, you know, so I don't know. That that's what I think that's what concerns me is they're kind of giving us too much of a cake here. It's like, yeah, unless they got some ultimate awesome plans, which I'm for. And I'll just take, I'll just make believe Spider-Man and all them never existed because we have to in some of these. My concern with the Punisher trailer I had was there's a like a war going on in the middle of New York City and nobody shows up, you know. So so it makes me wonder, you know, okay, I gotta take myself out of it, you know, out of that part of it. So just just to keep in continuity of the show, yeah, it still makes me go, that's a great that would have been a great season finale because now we got to wait and see how he's gonna be, how he's gonna react to her dead, whether she's dead or not, we could have a whole half a year wondering even if she's really dead or not. Yeah, you know, and to me, that keeps that hype going, it keeps that building. Those slow burn shows do that for a reason because they know they can't just blow their whole package right there for you. We can't just give you the whole thing right away, you know. So, and I feel like they kind of just played a lot of cards in this episode, which you know what? That's fine. There are shows that can do that and do real well. Yeah, you know, I just don't know if this is that show though yet. I I still have that oof, there's moments where I'm like, this is very drawn out, very drawn out, you know, and and don't draw it out too far because that's where it gets boring, you know, and we're almost there. The cool thing is this episode is just a lot of fun, you know. Um, but could you do this episode again next week? I don't think so. You know, it's like I don't think so. I think it's uh you gotta start giving us some sort of, you know, I don't know a path to a resolution, you know, is the best way to go, you know. Or don't allude to it at all and let it be something that sets until it comes back, you know. Um because when you build on something like this, there is an eventual eruption. And if it's not worth it, you're not ever gonna feel that it was earned, you know. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:46

I mean, I yeah, we we have a little bit of a differences there when it came to um this, but what's what's kind of stuck out for me personally is that one of the problems that I think Marvel had at one point, and they have they've figured out ways to fix it, but I think depending on who's in charge or who's doing this or who's homing this project, they have to keep this in mind. Is after the first Avengers movie, they've now established a bigger universe. And so doing the solo projects, whether it's a movie or TV show, after that, you have to figure out a way, and the Infinity saga is a great, great time with figuring out a way that you could do these without having to make them another Avengers level thing. The only missed up I think they had was Iron Man 3, and we'll get to that when we get to that. But um for this show, I think that one of the problems would be if you just keep it to that mindset of this is always a bigger, bigger universe, then you can't make big crazy things happen if you want to make them happen, because you're always gonna think, is Spider-Man gonna swing in? Are the Avengers gonna come in? Is Black Willow suddenly gonna appear the alienable version? Which, I mean, for all we know they could, but whatever. Um, although we know rights issues with Spider-Man prevent some of that, but that's that's a him thing and Sony thing. Um I think that in the bigger context of these movies and these shows in particular, um, as we're not gonna know this until it's the show is done, like the season is done type thing, and move more projects have happened because we're still at the moment in this point where we have the Daredevil Born Again season two happening now, the Punisher directly after that, and Spider-Man Brand New Day, all three projects of which are happening in New York City. You've said it many times before. Yeah, MCU Universe, stay out of New York City. Yeah, it's it's it's Hell's Kitchens hell. It's just seems like nothing happens in Miami.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:52

So go there. Even DC, stay out of DC. People turn their red down there. No, just go to go to go to Miami.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:59

Yeah, but anyways, I think we'll have a better viewpoint of where the show is is in the grand scale of the universe they've made after Brand New Day, in my opinion. Because I don't know if Brand New Day is gonna address all those where Daredevil was, where Paris was, when that timeline fits. It doesn't have to have to because it's a Spider-Man movie. But at the same time, if Marvel is good at one thing, they are good at being able to connect the universe and to a degree make it make sense continuity-wise, because that's one of the things they've strived on is okay, you could do Guardians of the Galaxy because they're off-world. You could do Thor, his solo project, because he's off-world. And you know, you if you have to keep Captain America here, you're gonna add in Black Widow and Nick Fury because it's a bigger universe now. You can't just do a solo Captain America movie without expecting some of these other characters to show up. So with that said, we don't know about Daredevil's corner of the MCU, is he is the new face on the block for this. Uh, we have already seen him in the Spider-Man No Way Home movie know of Peter Parker. Well, at this, actually at this moment, he doesn't know, no one knows, which is probably a beauty for the show, is that he doesn't have to think, oh, I'm gonna ask Spider-Man because he's Daredevil's doing his own thing against Mayor Fisk. Spider-Man is still kind of like a semi-avenger doing his own thing, which we don't really know what he's doing now until we see the movie. Because for all we know, he could be in hiding this whole time. We or doing low-key things, and most of this, yes, this is in New York City, but he's the devil of Hell's Kitchen, so a lot of his home base and home stuff is in Hell's Kitchen, whereas Luke Cage is in Harlem and Jessica Jones is in, I don't know where she is, but we'll find out that out probably in the next episode, to be honest. Um, because New York City is much bigger, and I think if I remember right, he's from Queens, Peter Parker, whereas um Steve Rogers is from Brooklyn. So it's still New York City, guys, of course, and they're gonna go into all these other boroughs, but maybe they are trying to make New York City this big battleground, and he's doing his his part over here, and he's doing his part there, and we probably just won't know all that until that's done.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:19

Well, and and I don't think they've done anything yet that makes you think you have to bring them in, yeah. But it's just like you're getting there though, like you're getting to a thing. I mean, uh and sometimes it's as simple as mentioning something is all you need to do. I would feel so much better if, like, during some of like in the beginning of Born Again, some of the campaign of why he's doing this vigilante thing has something to do with what happened in Thunderbolts. What a great campaign thing to use. Hey, you remember when that thing was up in the sky and we all like disappeared into our worst thoughts possible for that little bit of time? Yeah, they people saved us, but it's that kind of stuff I'm trying to prevent. I'd vote for that guy too. You know, all you gotta do is mention that, just mention it, you know, and it's not mentioned though. We're supposed to, we literally had to look up when this took place. We shouldn't have to do that when we're watching the show, you know. But once again, they're not asking us to watch Daredevil in order to watch the movies either. And I'm with you on what you're saying, everyone's got their section of the city, but you're talking about Spider-Man, and it's he knows what's going on, he's doing his thing. I I think we're going into the new Spider-Man movie where we're gonna see that he's been doing kick and butt for a while as Spider-Man. I think if you didn't I think when you got things explode, and you got a guy like Bullseye that kills a bunch of guys in a diner, Spider-Man's looking into it, you know. But that's okay, because like I said, I'll I will separate it. It's just low enough crime stuff that they're doing well enough, that's low enough. But when you start involving Mr. Charles and now we know who he works for, now you're you're already stepping into some MCU territory there. So I just don't like the fact that they use it willy-nilly. Where it's like we're only gonna use the MCU stuff when it's gonna help us in our story. That it has to work both ways. You can't, I don't like that they use MCU proper movie stuff to push a story along in a TV show and then they decide not to do it in the movies when they don't want to for the shows because they don't want to confuse us. But actually you're confusing us more than you are helping us. It's like so we're gonna see MCU proper things come into TV shows a heck of a lot more than we do into the movies, really. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 1:37:33

You know, because isn't that what we wanted? We didn't want to have to watch the show.

SPEAKER_01 1:37:37

Yeah, but they gotta tell us that's what we're getting. You know, they gotta they gotta give us that warning, right? Like, because we don't know. Because if she's in this and or if she's mentioned in this, you know, her character, and then she's in Thunderbolts. I mean, it's like at what point do they mesh, right? Uh, especially in when especially if you're gonna have a group of defenders show up. You know, it's it's gonna get somebody's attention, especially hers, because there's nefarious stuff going on here with the Mr. Charles in this episode. They're clearly, I think he I personally think that they're smuggling weapons through New York City, and the Kingpin is someone that allows them to do it because he's corrupt and they know it. And Mr. Charles is there to keep them in line. And they're smuggling these weapons so they can finance wars overseas, because that's what unfortunately, guys, today a lot of countries do all the time. And the US has been one that's done that before, too. And especially if you're corrupt in government, you know, there's definitely it's been that before. And she and this, I can't remember her name. What's her name again? Keep saying she and your Valentina Allegra de Fontaine. Thank you. And obviously, she's up to no good, right? We know she's up to no good, you know. She's just in a position of power right now. So, yeah, it's just a matter of when does that mesh then? And if they do mesh, and they already mesh in the movies more than they do in the shows, which kind of bugs me. We got Punisher showing up in Spider-Man, just willy-nilly. And we haven't even seen the Punisher special yet, which is it looks great. But like I said, even in the trailer reaction I did, I'm kind of getting a little old of this Punisher that's kind of whiny a little. Like, I get what he's don't get me wrong. I know you guys are like, whoa, this guy's got a black heart. It's like, yeah, yeah, hot take, guys, but come on, suck it up, Frank. You know, it's like he's obviously he how many people you gotta kill in order to be like, okay, I get it. Can't bring my son back and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, daughter, whatever. You know what I mean? And his wife. I get it, I get it. But after a while, it's like, okay, just be the Punisher, just be him. Accept the fact that you aren't gonna eat a bullet and that you're gonna kill bad guys and be the that's probably what he's gonna do in Spider-Man. I bet we don't hear a lot about his family stuff in Spider-Man. Maybe we do a little bit between him and Peter talking, maybe, but ultimately I bet we don't. But it's like I look at that Punisher special, I'm like, yeah, that looks fun, but it looks like, oh, we've kind of covered this, right? Like we kind of get, we get it. I mean, you got PTSD from the war, your family's dead. We get it. How long do you want to play that tortured character before let the tortured character become the the essence of who you are then? And so yeah, I'm kind of hoping it it levels out at some point, but that we're not gonna talk about that until we see it. Might be different and epic. You know, it looks good. So I'm gonna watch it. Violence looks great, he's cool as Punisher. You just kind of like, yeah, suck it up, dude. Yeah, sorry, guys. It's not not me having a black heart, but like I said, the the my version of the Punisher that I love from 2004, at the end of the movie, he's he's gotten revenge on his family and everything's all done. And instead of you know, off in himself, he says, you know what, I'm gonna spend the rest of my life just murdering people that do bad things. And you can kind of tell that sure, he probably has sleepless nights over losing his family, but he hides it with a bottle and a gun. And I'm like, that's the punisher I want. You know what I mean? Because that's kind of what Punisher is. When you go read those comics, man, he's just a drunk guy out there killing dudes, and it's like, cool, that's fun, you know. And so, yeah, either way, Daredevil, I mean, I think they're great in this. I love the boxing stuff in this, and the boxing thing has like always been a thing in Daredevil, right? When you look at the old comics and stuff, Kingpin's always boxing somebody. There's even comic books where Daredevil and him are boxing together.

SPEAKER_00 1:41:19

Matt Murdoch's father was a boxer, yeah. So it's it's it's like ingrained in Daredevil. The lore. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I think, oh, it's now that you're touching upon it. I love how the show has played up to because it's it's very um, how do I say this properly? Um good political ops for the Kingpin, because you know, he's mayor. Not everyone likes him. Some people like him, so he's putting on this face. There's this propaganda machine going on to keep people liking his anti-vigilant task force, even though he's put in martial law. So uh I think that that just played into it to be like, oh, and you could tell how the announcer announced him and all that stuff. They're very friendly to his administration type thing. Like this is something that is a good PR stunt at the end of the day.

SPEAKER_01 1:42:07

Yeah, I wish we'd see more of why people like him because we just keep seeing the dark side of him. And I kind of wish there was a little more play with well, I could see why he's winning some people, because I don't know, we we only see the bad stuff.

SPEAKER_00 1:42:20

Yeah, yeah, but I think that's that's kind of the point of the show is that we are we're supposed to, as the audience, because we know he's the bad guy, see all the corrupt stuff he's doing. But yeah, I do agree. I think that'll be cool to see what would his 60-minute interview look like type thing.

SPEAKER_01 1:42:34

You know, like see a moment where you can see why he won that crowd over. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 1:42:38

Yeah, yeah. So I I think that would be cool. And the original Daredevil show and Netflix, I think they did touch upon some of that stuff in the first season. I thought they did, yeah. That it'll be cool, yeah. I agree to bleed that into this one now and you see it more so. But I just thought it was uh the whole boxing scene is great, is oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_01 1:43:00

I was like, and you notice how the edge of the bird dying, like she's all in white with that red, is the same, like how she got him that painting, yes, which was the bird with the white and the red. Yeah, it's like there's it's very poetic. They're doing a great these writers know what they're doing, you know.

SPEAKER_00 1:43:13

Well, just the boxer thing. I don't know if the boxer alive or not. I mean that he pissed him up, yeah. Yeah, and he's they were promoting him as this he's always had a winning streak, like the a big class thing. And I'm like, oh, I I part of me kept thinking, I bet Kingpin's gonna go a little soft on him because it's a PR stunt after all. As soon as he saw Vanessa walk in, it was like he already was like fighting him, fighting him. He was already amped. I think part of me thinks, honestly, Kingpin misses it. That's why he's doing it because now he could do it and get away with it because it's a PR boxing thing. Well, ultimately he's a bad guy that is violent.

SPEAKER_01 1:43:49

Yeah, and this is his way of being violent in public and getting and not being the bad guy. Yeah. I don't think he killed the guy. I think he I think he messed him up. Like, he definitely messed him up. But I don't think he killed him. I don't think that would go well, you know, with the public, but he definitely put him to sleep. We'll definitely need to see what the repercussions are in the next episode because uh Bullseye didn't really kill her. You know, he he did by deflecting the what he threw with his belt and the pieces from that he deflected it with is what killed her. So I I'm torn at that. I know I know if Bullseye wasn't doing it, then it wouldn't happen. That's true. But I think that's a very key I think it's very key though to look forward thinking about. I I think he's gonna feel guilt over it.

SPEAKER_00 1:44:31

I think Bullseye calculated it because of how he never misses. I think that's a little reaching.

SPEAKER_01 1:44:36

No, you think it might be trusting he was gonna do that. I don't know. I gotcha. I don't think so. I think if Bullseye was starting to I think if Bullseye was gonna kill her, he'd just kill her. I I I know he wants to kill him too, but I don't think I don't think he'd try to mask it. There's no more reason. The idea of him doing what he's been doing, why would he try to make it look like he wasn't killing her? I think if he was gonna kill her, she'd have been dead too because of him doing it. I think he tried to kill him and he deflected it, and the his the deflection of it ended up killing her. And that that's what's gonna make him feel guilty because she came to the thing, he didn't want her there, she came anyways. He lost his cool, punched the guy out, wasn't thinking, hit the thing, and it killed her, and he's gonna think, You did this to me, when really it's a lot of his own fault that it's happening. I think you're gonna see some guilt from him out of that, because they're gonna milk that for a couple episodes of the guilt of it. And I think that that's smart to do, honestly, because I think that's the side of King Ping we need to see, and then we've kind of getting alluded to this, you know, some of the good in him that if there is any, there's some of it is gonna come out of he can't deny the fact that, well, that came from me hitting that, you know, even though he's not going to ever admit that and he's going to blame Bullseye, right? Which which technically it is Bullseye's fault, I guess. But you know, semantics, right? You know, it's like it's but if she was the intended target, I don't see why bullseye would mess around to make it look like she's not. Like, why just get it right outright, you know? I don't think she was supposed to be there.

SPEAKER_03 1:46:10

No, she wasn't.

SPEAKER_01 1:46:11

She wasn't. I don't think I think bullseye was there to kill him, you know, because I don't think he thought she was gonna be there either.

SPEAKER_00 1:46:18

So I think it is all just a oh wow, I can't believe that just happened. I think that if and we'll have to replay it to confirm it, but I think that when Bullseye threw that glass thing, he was throwing it at Vanessa and King Ping blocked it, but in blocking it, broke it and pieces still hit her. Okay, I feel like I saw it differently. We'd have to watch it to see. But okay. But yeah, that's that's from what I remember of it. Because I I I just remember when I was watching it in the moment thinking, oh, he saved his wife. It just broke into pieces. And then the reality of when the camera turned right and you see when the glass crystal stuck in her head, it was like, Oh, you didn't save her. Right, she still got hit. And it I don't I don't know. Yeah, it's hard to tell, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:47:05

But that's what I would have said. Comment below, guys. Who is he going for? Maybe, maybe they want us to wonder. Mm-hmm. Because I definitely saw it like he was trying to kill him. Yeah. You know, I yeah, I don't think he thought she was gonna be there. And then when she comes up out of nowhere like that, it was like, oh. You know, but at the same time, yeah, I I just figured it goes along with the argument that him and Matt were having about whether they should kill him or not. I thought that was the whole idea. You know, so interesting. See, maybe they're the down purpose. Maybe they want you to wonder. Yeah. Maybe that's an answer that'll never be answered, you know. They've done that in some movies I like where you see a point of view and you see another point of view, and you're kind of like, oh no, which one? Even you as a viewer start questioning yourself on what does that mean, you know? So interesting. Interesting.

SPEAKER_00 1:47:49

Yeah, we're we're very curious. I mean, I'm I'm very curious exactly to see what what that was uh about and who who killed who. And to our listening audience, by the way, I didn't pull up the the clip real quick just for us to see um a moment to clarify who did what who was doing what type thing. And by the way, the action in this scene is great.

SPEAKER_01 1:48:11

The cinematography, the choreography of the fighting is fantastic. I love how things are flying around, Daredevil looks cool. There's a lot of fun stuff going on in this episode. Like I said, it feels like a season finale, don't it? Like it's got that season finale flair to it that is a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_00 1:48:28

Yeah. Oh yeah, definitely. It's it was quite the vision to see how this how they put this all together. And I can only imagine the writer's room when they're writing this all down, like how is this gonna look and things like that. Um but he picks up this little bit. Yeah, he picks it up, he's looking at it, he's looking, he's boy, his costume is great. His costume is fantastic. So he's throwing it now, she shoots him, it hits him, so he he did get shot, but that is going towards Vanessa. I don't know. I don't think she's right. Actually, it does look like it's going towards him. Yeah, because where's right? She's not near her at all. Yeah, she's on she's at the other end of the ring, right? Yeah. Yeah. And yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:49:20

I think it's him he's going for it. I think you're right. As I'm as I'm watching, yeah. He's throwing the thing that little he's throwing the he's gonna kill him with the logo born again of New York City. That's yeah it's his own logo thing. He's gonna kill him with his own thing.

SPEAKER_00 1:49:36

Yeah. Oh. You're right. So, guys, definitely comment down below what do you think? What do you think if this was like Bullseye's intention of getting to Vanessa through Fisk and doing that? Because that was my theory in the beginning. It was like, oh, I bet he threw it, but it his intention was it was gonna block go off. But I don't know if they were that he's that calculating to do it like that, you know.

SPEAKER_01 1:50:00

I don't think I think that's quite a trick. That's a trick. Yeah. He's done some really cool stuff that makes me go, wow, you gotta be like super equivalent. Yeah, which he is, obviously. But like that would have been a hell of a trick. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 1:50:10

Like what I'm more curious of, and we haven't gotten that yet in either season one or season two of Born Again, is at the end of the Netflix show of Daredevil season three, uh, bullseye's paralyzed. And then it's it's show the scene of the little bullseye with the lasers and all that stuff. So you know, okay, it's bullseye, and they're doing something to fix him. I'm not sure what it was. I don't I don't recall they ever even explained that, but I don't think in the show they've explained how you've been able to do come back to normal.

SPEAKER_01 1:50:38

I can give you an answer to that, which I think I've noticed now that I've been watching the show with you. I think we're in a soft reboot. I think what that means is forget that part. Yeah, they want you to remember the characters because they're gonna bring the same back and they're gonna have things that is it's all happened, but the soft reboot part of it is we're gonna pick and choose what we really care about meant. You know, X-Men did this with Xavier a couple times, soft reboot of hey, let's forget that he killed him because that was dumb. You know what I mean? And you know what? We all just were okay, whatever. You know what I mean? And then and then then they thankfully singer knew enough to do a whole movie to make that make sense. Yeah. Um, but at time at the time it was like, oh, didn't he just die in X-Men 3? No. Or pretend that he didn't, yeah, which is fine because it was dumb, right? He shouldn't have. And or at least that way. It's okay if he killed him, but that way? Okay, anyway, we'll get there when we get there. Yeah, what the hell? Anyway, so yeah. Um, but yeah, no, I think uh I think you're looking at a soft reboot. So it's like that's an answer that does do you need an answer for this to be good and continue on? I don't think you do. No.

SPEAKER_00 1:51:44

If that's the case, that this is just part of their soft reboot and doing it, then I feel like this is the only aspect that they decided we're just gonna forget about. Yeah, yeah. And that happens in movies, just like Xavier's a good example. That it we didn't watch Days of Future Pass thinking the whole time, how's Xavier there? We were just happy.

SPEAKER_03 1:52:01

Yeah, we didn't care.

SPEAKER_00 1:52:02

It just was. If anything, it was part of the reason why they did the movie is fixing some of the sins of the past, I think.

SPEAKER_01 1:52:08

Right. So, anyways, yeah, no, and I'm and I'm all for it, to be honest. I'm all for the soft reboot stuff. It can happen, you can do it, and they're doing it right because it's compelling and it's good. You know, if and the stuff that they want us to forget about, I think, are things that we can easily say, yeah, it really isn't a big deal if you think of it.

SPEAKER_00 1:52:25

Although I'm gonna say to the creators, if you're listening to this or anyone on the staff there that's listening to this, don't do a soft reboot on Electra. I loved her in season two of the Netflix Daredevil, and I want to see that actress come back to the show.

SPEAKER_01 1:52:36

You know, I don't I think you're gonna get the same actress. I think it's gonna be all the same stuff. They're just not gonna do any building off of what they started before.

SPEAKER_03 1:52:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:52:44

They're just gonna they're just gonna expect that you liked what they had before and they'll build off of that. Yeah. And then they'll go forward. So if there's any unanswered questions of hers, don't expect them to get answered. Yeah, just expect that she's coming into the street. Because that's what a soft reboot would be. It's what they've been really is what they've been doing.

SPEAKER_00 1:53:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:53:03

I mean, you might get a recast. I doubt it, you know, but get a recast on what's on Vanessa.

SPEAKER_00 1:53:10

That's that's the thing that I doubt they're gonna recast her only for that point because that when they tried to start Daredevil Born again and they were saying it's a reboot on them, but they're using the same main two actors. And then they they didn't have Karen in it at all and foggy. And then all of a sudden, uh during COVID, and this was on the Excape Pod podcast, and he was talking about this too, is that um they saw the footage during the strikes, not COVID, it was during the strikes, and they said that we need to we're either gonna go full on in or we're not gonna do it. And they had too good of a show in the Daredevil Netflix show. They had to admit that and these actors and everything was beautiful, beautifully done. They were like, we're just gonna go full on in. That's how we got the show we got now. So I don't think they are gonna recast Electra when they do make her appear. Um, they might do a little soft rebooting of her um origin to it, or not even her origin, but of of the events that happened to her to a degree. Crazy things if you watch the original Netflix show of Daredevil and Defenders. Electra is a big part of season two of Daredevil and a big part of the Defenders. But I don't know if we'll see how we're gonna see them build off that. If anything, if they're as smart for storytelling-wise, they'll use what happened to her in Defenders to do their own soft reboot without having to worry about the other stuff. So you have to watch that to see.

SPEAKER_01 1:54:30

With soft reboots, you really don't even have to just watch when you watch the defense.

SPEAKER_00 1:54:36

Sounds good.

SPEAKER_01 1:54:36

You know, you know, yeah, it's all you gotta do.

SPEAKER_00 1:54:38

When you watch the defenders, you'll get what I mean by that with what they did with her. But, anyways, um, to conclude for this segment of the branch point breakdown of Daredevil Born Again season two, episode four. Well, how would you conclude it? Oh, yeah, great episode.

SPEAKER_01 1:54:53

This, like I said, it felt like a season finale, which all season finales need to be good, you know. And this one was a really good one. And obviously, it's not a season finale. And I promise, folks, I'm not gonna go on a rant every single time we do an episode of why it doesn't fit in with the bigger picture. I'm going to reprieve myself from that and just take this as a show as it goes until they do something outrageous that makes me go, hey guys, what are we doing? You know, but until then, I'm fine with it. It's I like it. I've been enjoying it. I didn't think I'd like their devil as much as I do now. Of course, I'm a defender of the old Ben Affleck movie, too. It's it's not good, you know, but it's not bad. It's not as bad as they make it sound, you know. They really make it sound terrible, but there's some really good stuff in that old movie. Um, so which I I look forward to doing when we do our thing because that'll be a fun one to pick apart and have fun. But with this show, I like this version of it better than I do the Netflix version. Um, I do think it does revolve around Fisk and the Derrick and Matt Murdoch. It's a very intrical thing. And if that storyline comes to an end, it's gotta be very well earned and very at a peak. It can't, I don't think it's something you can't just put this guy in jail and we just okay, let's just move on a normal day.

SPEAKER_00 1:56:08

I really think that would be doing well the story a disservice. I agree to that because I think we've seen that in the Netflix Daredevil. Yeah, and we it wasn't they put him in jail, they did the whole thing. He he ended up being able to control the wet FBI. So then he got out. Now he's mayor fist. So I do feel like if they only eat these things. There's only like two end results from for mayor fisk at this point, in my opinion. It's either deaf, like an actual deaf type thing, or it's putting him in the supermax prison because he wasn't there before, because no one thought of him as a supermax villain. But now with you've integrated the MCU with this show and everything, that you have those as an option now. He could go where Abomination was sitting.

SPEAKER_01 1:56:50

But I think the only other thing you could do that you might be able to get away with is he kind of gets gets away and we don't know where he is. Yeah. You know, and that's kind of that would be a little cheap, but at the very least, then he can come back later. He's like, oh my god, he's behind it again, you know.

SPEAKER_00 1:57:05

That's what they allude to the Echo show. Yeah. Because uh that's that's kind of how they explained him away from the Netflix Daredevil to the Disney Plus Daredevil is that where has he been in New York City if he's still a presence? He's been doing which uh Echo probably shouldn't have just ever been made, honestly. That's my hot take. But anyways, I agree.

SPEAKER_01 1:57:26

Sorry, I just feel like he's a big enough and like liked enough character by the fans that you don't want to kill him. Well, talk about soft reboots.

SPEAKER_00 1:57:36

I'm talking about soft reboots at the end of the Hawkeye show. She straights up Echo straights up shoot him and kill looks like it kills him. Yeah, I know. And yeah, now he doesn't even have a scar about that, or at least not no mention about it. Yes, exactly. So it's like Or it's not even his campaign say I almost died before. Like, I mean, that's so many things. I think I think that's a good idea. If they made a mistake in that show for that reason, they made a mistake and they're like, We're just gonna forget about this part now because you can't kill the kingpin like that, and it's his Marvel MCU debut, which is why they've never really been able to kill Loki, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:58:09

It's not because you know, it's it's not because the story always calls for it, it's because everybody likes him, you know.

SPEAKER_03 1:58:16

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 1:58:16

So if you kill him, it's gotta be epic enough. Yes. And and we technically did see the death of the Loki we know. And it was epic. It was epic, yeah. You know, and but even then, we still gotta have this character because he's really cool. So they still brought him back in a different way, which I I think is earned and worked. Um, which is very risky, but worked, you know. Uh so yeah, but how many times you're gonna be able to get away with that? You know what I mean? It's I feel like if you're I'm I don't as I it's funny because I always give the MCU issues. I say, listen, be don't be afraid to kill people. You know, because that makes better storytelling. But at the same time, I'm gonna also say, but when you do, make sure they're dead for one, and for two, make it worse earned death, you know, make it an earned thing, you know. That's why I don't want Robert Dunning Jr. to ever, ever play Iron Man ever again. There's no way in my mind that you could end his storyline better than they have. We'll get there, folks. But that is true to me. It's if we're oh, we're just gonna bring him back and using time, and here he is, he's alive, and he can have his daughter back and stuff, and I'm gonna be boo-hoo. I love him, I don't want him gone, but how perfect, right? Yeah. So, like, and I think that that's what we need to do. If if you're gonna end Kingpin and end him, make it good and keep him gone and and move forward, you know. If you're not, then you know.

SPEAKER_00 1:59:39

All right. Well, with that said, guys, that was our breakdown and our branch point breakdown segment of our multiverse, Skidel Multiverse podcast. So please uh stay tuned. Next up, we're talking about Thor One, the film in a retrospective way. Oh, yeah. All right, everyone, we are on to our main event of the episode, Thor One, a retrospective view. Oh boy. So this is gonna be fun. Are you ready?

SPEAKER_02 2:00:10

Very excited.

SPEAKER_00 2:00:12

All right, so um, I guess we'll start off with the history of the film. Do you want to do it? Do you want me to do it, or how do you want to do it?

SPEAKER_01 2:00:20

Yeah, I I can do some of it. I can do it. Let's do it guys. You ready?

SPEAKER_00 2:00:24

Let's do it.

SPEAKER_01 2:00:26

All right. So a little history of the film, okay. Uh, first off, you know, Chris Hemsworth, Natalie Portman, Tom Hiddleston, Anthony Hopkins. You know, there's a slew of other people in this too that, you know, we're just it's it's a lot. It's a great cast. Um the lead up to filming Thor marked a major turning point for Marvel Studios as it forced the studio to fully embrace fantasy and mythology for the first time after the grounded tech-based worlds of Iron Man and the Incredible Hulk. At this stage, Marvel was no longer just proving it could make movies. It was actually, it was actively building a shared universe, and Soar was essential to expanding that universe beyond science into something cosmic and godlike. Big steps, folks. One of the most surprising choices was hiring Kenneth Brana, best known for directing and starring in Shakespeare adaptations. Marvel specifically wanted someone who could handle the royal, mythological, almost theatrical tone of Asgard, treating it less like a superhero setting and more like a classical drama. This decision helped shape the film's unique blend of fantasy, family tragedy, and cosmic scale, making it feel very different from anything Marvel has done before. The casting process reflected a mix of unknowns and established talent. Chris Hemsworth was a relatively unknown Australian actor at the time. Aussies are the best at acting, by the way. Just so you all know, you want to hire a good actor if he's Australian, you got him. Anyways, uh, with only small roles, including a brief appearance in Star Trek, which was amazing, making him a risky but ultimately perfect choice for Thor. Tom Hiddleston originally auditioned for Thor but was cast as Loki, bringing a Shakespearean depth and emotional complexity to the villain, something that would become a defining element of the MCU. Meanwhile, Natalie Portman, already an Oscar-nominated actress at the time, brought credibility and star power as Jane Foster, and was reportedly drawn to the project specifically because of Brana's involvement. Marvel also learned heavily, leaned, sorry, Marvel also leaned heavily into veteran actors to ground the fan fantasy world. Anthony Hopkins was cast as Odin, giving the film a commanding regal presence, while Stellan Skarsgard added scientific grounding as Eric, uh, I'll never say his last name. Selvig. Selvig, thank you, helping bridge the gap between Earth and Asgard. At the time, many of these actors weren't thinking in terms of a long-running franchise. They were approaching it as a standalone mythological film and strong dramatic roots. Just a little add-on for information on that, just so you know, uh, Stellan Skosgard has very big bloodline ties to Vikings, his family's whole family does, which is why they cast him as this and that, which was brilliant, if you ask me. Because he's as you tell in the movie, he's like, as a kid, I heard these stories and all that. That's because he actually his family, he did a really unique podcast on this, where they actually were able to go back real far to see where his Viking ancestors were from, which is kind of neat, anyways. So great, great casting, awesome casting. Uh, from a production standpoint, Thor was a major leap. Marvel had to figure out how to visually realize Asgard, combining practical sets with heavy CGI to create a world that felt both otherworldly and believable. The studio also had to carefully balance fantasy with science, introducing the idea that Thor's powers could be explained through advanced physics rather than magic alone, laying groundwork for how the MCU would handle cosmic elements going forward. I just wish they'd do that with their magic. Fun facts from production highlight how experimental from production highlight how experimental this film was. Hemsworth underwent intense physical training to achieve Thor's cosmic look or iconic look and cosmic. Let's be honest. The design of Asgard was inspired by a mix of North mystic mythology and futuristic aesthetics. And early on, Marvel executives were unsure if audiences would accept such a drastic tonal shift from armored suits to gods and realms, ultimately realizing in yeah, releasing into theaters on May 6, 2011, Thor represented Marvel Studios taking a biggest the biggest creative risk yet, proving that the MCU could expand beyond grounded realism into full-scale fantasy and still feel like part of the same universe. Now, as for the reception and the box office numbers its production budget was about 150 million, its global box office ended up about 449 to 450 million worldwide. It's pretty good. And when you break that down, it was 181 million domestic and 268 million international. Uh Thor, it was solid, but not elite reception on Rotten Tomatoes. Critic score was about a 77%, audience score 76, both pretty good, above average, I'd say. What that meant for at the time is critics generally saw it as a good, not great entry into the Marvel Studios. It was praised for Chris Hemsworth as Thor, Tom Hiddlison Stealing Scenes as Loki, the unique fantasy Shakespearean tone from Kenneth Brana, but it was criticized for being a little uneven in the pacing, especially on Earth, and a less compelling action structure compared to Iron Man. I say a lot of that's very accurate, but we'll get into that. At that time, at the time, these sources reflected that Thor successfully expanded the MCU into cosmic and mythological territory, was seen as a necessary building block for the Avengers, and didn't quite reach the same level of universal praise as Iron Man. In the big picture, folks, for Marvel Studios, this was another strong win. It proved audiences would embrace the MCU's shift into fantasy and cosmic storytelling. It was successfully introduced a new major hero and a new major villain in Loki. It continued building momentum toward the Avengers. While not as big as Iron Man 2, it was a solid success that expanded the MCU's scope in a major way.

SPEAKER_02 2:07:13

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 2:07:15

Wow, what an what an opening. Um, what a breakdown of the history of this film. I don't have written down here which normally we do have the official synopsis of the film. That's true. Are you able to pull that up on your phone? Maybe. I may. I will read that off. Let me pull that up real quick. Yeah, that's one thing. In my notes preparation, we always do a we do a uh breakdown of the history of the film that we're talking about. Then we give you the official synopsis of the studio, releases to you right before the movie comes out. That's supposed to give an overall, like bite-sized glimpse of what the movie's supposed to be, and that's when we go into our full-on breakdown with seeing exactly what they do.

SPEAKER_01 2:07:53

So, what is this synopsis? So, our official film synopsis or for Thor, Marvel Studios MCU, Thor one, as a son of Odin, king of the Norse gods, Thor will soon inherit the throne of Asgard from his aging father. However, on the day he is to be crowned, Thor reacts with brutality when the god with when the gods' enemies, the frost giants, sorry folks, enter the palace in violation of their treaty. As punishment, Odin banishes Thor to Earth, while Loki, Thor's brother, plots mischief in Asgard. Thor, now stripped of his powers, faces his greatest threats. Pretty good.

SPEAKER_00 2:08:34

Yeah. Yeah, pretty good. Pretty good indeed. So what are your first before we get into the the film breakdown specifically? The production, uh, everything behind it, them choosing Thor to be their next hero to introduce. What are your thoughts on it? I think it I think it's this is Marvel's first big swing.

SPEAKER_01 2:08:51

And I kind of we alluded to that in our little introduction there. Um and yes, this was this was make or break as well. I'm gonna say that a lot in the first phase because I think the first phase was a lot of okay, make or break, make or break. But I will say this was the biggest stepping stone. And I think it shown that Feige was thinking ahead of time. That once he gained control in Iron Man 2, we learned that control, the power of everything got shifted to him. So this was definitely the next project. And this is like we would say the proper first project where he was really at the helm. I think Feige was like, let's get this out of the way. This is either gonna work or it's not. And they just took a big swing at it. And as we discuss whether we think it worked or not, stay tuned. But it's I think that yeah, I love that I like that Tom Hiddleston come in to play Thor. I can only picture in my head what kind of movie that would have been, you know, if he was Thor. I'm glad he's not, and I'm sure he feels the same way because he's fantastic as Loki. And I think it's a great this was a big swing, and you can tell they put a lot into it, you know. And yeah, I it I'm glad there's not any huge kind of controversy behind this movie, too. I think this is the first one where we realize, oh, look, there's no yeah, no questions of this guy shouldn't have been this guy. This one feels like the first time it all just kind of went as planned and thankfully was successful.

SPEAKER_00 2:10:19

So I know actually, in thinking about because this is the fourth film we're into of the MCU so far. Yeah. Um that's very true. There was no behind the scenes drama that's ever been reported about it.

SPEAKER_03 2:10:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:10:31

Yeah. All the actors have had a clean slate. There's not been any concerns of, oh, are we hiring this guy because of an issue in this past or something? So um, that's that's really cool to hear. And from my understanding, the cast got along great with each other. So there wasn't it's nice to see that. Um uh, how do I say this properly? It's that well, you know, we we already went through Iron Man 1 with how risky that was, and it turned out to be a huge success. We already know about the problems behind the scenes of the Incredible Hulk and the problems in front of the camera, as we could tell from our review. Better go watch that if you haven't watched it yet. Um we're a little hard on it, but it kind of deserves it. We're honest. Yeah, and then uh Iron Man 2, there was um I don't know if there was any drama of that.

SPEAKER_01 2:11:19

Well, there was some type of drama because there was a conflict of power being resolved in production. Yep. And that's and it ended up with Feige by the end being the one in control. So and I think Iron Man 2 was kind of filmed a lot like the first one, which is on the Seat of the Pants, you know. Yeah. And that and there was a there I do remember, I think we touched on it, but a lot of people don't really care for Mickey Roark. Not because he's a bad actor, but because of his antics. And he's a very hard actor to work with, which is why you don't see him often anymore.

SPEAKER_00 2:11:47

Well, I think what what serves well for Thor that didn't serve for Iron Man 2 is Iron Man 2 was kind of fast tracked as a sequel because of the success that they did. And I get that because they want to build momentum on it. Paramount pictures is like we're not. Going to sit on this while you're building your universe. Cool. We're helping you fund all the other ones, but we need a sequel to this one that we know is a guarantee is going to put butts in the seats.

SPEAKER_01 2:12:08

I actually think that that was what the problem was in Iron Man 2 that made Fuggy in charge. Because you notice after Thor, once Thor hits and on, we don't get sequels to these until they're earned. It's like they Iron Man made big money, and the studio did what every studio does with these franchises is we need another. And then like in some time and Fuggy's like, no, no, no, no. We need the Avengers first. And you notice from Thor on, it's like, don't even talk to me about sequels until we get to an Avengers movie.

SPEAKER_03 2:12:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:12:39

And it's like, ooh, that's smart, guy. Like, he we could easily get a Thor 2 before Avengers. You know, could easily got a Captain America 2 before Avengers. At the rate, they were doing the Iron Man and Iron Man 2, but they didn't. I think that was, I think you saw a structure being built, and this is the first time that his formula was used. And this is the first time it worked. Yeah. And I think they've been repeating it ever since, trying to, and it's worked a lot and did the MCU a lot of favors. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:13:07

Yeah, I agree. And for the casting of this, uh, to go go into that for a moment, because you talked about how Tom Hiddleston, you said it in the history that he had auditioned for Thor initially, and actually his audition tape is out there, guys, on YouTube. Oh, yeah, check it out. It's great. You should check it out. When you're watching it, you're like, huh?

SPEAKER_01 2:13:25

In a different world, he could have done it, really.

SPEAKER_00 2:13:27

He's oh yeah, he's a great actor, yes. But now, knowing what you see, the look of Thor and the look of Loki and how they've portrayed those characters, I wouldn't I don't think Tom Hendelson ever regretted um uh not being Thor type of thing. No, I think he loves playing Loki. It's perfect for him. Yeah. And also apparently Liam Hemsworth, Chris's younger brother, that's right, was auditioning to be Thor too, and they both were neck and neck and getting it. And I will have to say, I like that Chris got it over Liam. I I like Liam, he's a good actor, he's just like his brother to a degree, just younger. But there's something about Chris Hemsworth in particular Bodies Thor.

SPEAKER_01 2:14:03

Yeah, no offense to the other Hemsworth boys, they're all great in their own in their own regard, but Chris definitely is the better actor out of the group of them. And I think he's the funnier. And and I think he's definitely more likable. Like I said, all you guys are great. Everything I've seen you guys in are great. But I'd you're you know, Chris is definitely the best choice, I think, for this.

SPEAKER_00 2:14:26

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, the casting wise, I think they hit this nail on the head. You know, it's oh yeah. I would say I think the only one, and we'll get into when we get to that part of the casting weaknesses, strengths, and all that stuff. Um, even adding Nanny adding Nally Pointman to this, that it did it just like what your intro said, it it brought a little more of um an Oscar-worthy type actor to come into the role and all that stuff. I might feel differently about that by the time we get to the as you can tell if you've been watching the show from the beginning that we kind of have differences when it comes to the female leads a little bit here, but that's well, I will say for the first time it's not Natalie's fault that I feel this way. So it's not the actress that's the problem. There you go, Miss Portman.

SPEAKER_01 2:15:07

Oh, yeah, I think Natalie's great.

SPEAKER_00 2:15:09

Yeah, no, she's a great in the Star Wars um franchise.

SPEAKER_01 2:15:12

If you go back to like the professional and stuff, she's such a good actress. Like she, in fact, I wish she was in more. You know, I feel like the Star Wars stuff is what made her not be in more, because I would not, guys, you'd have to give me $10 million to even show my face in a Star Wars movie with the way the fandom is with it. No offense, you Star Wars nerds out there, but you guys are mean to your movies.

SPEAKER_03 2:15:32

Like I love the movie.

SPEAKER_01 2:15:35

I mean, I like Star Wars, it's great. I personally think The Last Jedi is probably the third best Star Wars movie ever made, and that's gonna blow up the internet for sure, because everybody hates that movie, but I think it's amazing. And but once again, you don't have to like it, but you guys take so much ownership where you got directors saying, I'm not gonna do that, it'll ruin my career. I should tell you something, guys. Chill out. Yeah, yeah, I agree. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:15:58

But so, well, moving on from that and everything. How about I break down act one? Sure. And then then we talk about it. I like it. Let's do it. All right. Act one, the fall of a god. Oh man. So we're introduced to Thor, the arrogant and powerful prince of Asgard, son of Odin. When Thor recklessly reignites war with the frost giants of Jodenheim, Odin strips him of his powers and banishes him to Earth as a lesson in humility. His enchanted hammer, Mjolnir, is also sent to Earth with a spell. Only someone worthy can lift it. On Earth, Thor encounters Jane Foster, Eric Selvig, and Darcy Lewis while struggling to understand human life. Meanwhile, back in Asgard, Loki discovers his true heritage and begins plotting to take the throne. Awesome. So I'm gonna say this from the very beginning of this um breakdown. And I say this with respect, by the way, but this is in Marvel's early infancy of a cinematic universe, and they're introducing now a whole new uh flavor to the MCU with this with this movie. I do think, and this is just my opinion, and I know my brother might have a little disagreement with it, Bob, and give my viewpoint on it. I'll say it from act one to act two and act three, I think they played this safe, but in a good way. I think they took risks, I think they took liberties, definitely. But for as an overall story of this film, just telling this, this one of the things that I would like to say about I always say it, I should say, about comic book characters, is that they're written already. Their origin really is already set. So as long as you could turn that into a cinematic experience, you're gonna win me over, and you're gonna win over comic book lovers and things like that. And I think Thor is a good example, one of many, because our next episode's gonna be Captain America, and I already have my two cents on that, but we're gonna re-watch it and do the whole episode like we normally do. I'm so excited to do that one. Oh, it's gonna be so good. But I think when it comes to these origin movies, if you just nail the main points of the origin movie and then have a little ad lib and fun with it, you're gonna win people over. And I think this movie played it safe in doing that. They didn't change the character's origin for the audience, but it was how it's supposed to have been. So that's my two cents on it. But what what are your thoughts on the the intro to this movie, uh, act one? What worked for you?

SPEAKER_01 2:18:23

So, what worked for sure is I love the very beginning of this movie. I like that we start off on Earth and would so we're already kind of with us already. And then we do the Asgard stuff, and then it leads right up to where we're back right in the same moment that we started off on Earth. I think it's very smart storytelling. And I'm gonna start off right off the bat. They took a good lesson in storytelling from um Peter Jackson when they do this Lord of the Rings feeling explanation of Asgard and who everybody is. What a good way of just a voiceover and show us stuff and just get us there. And and there's no jerking around, there's no hiding Asgard, there's no hiding these elements. We're gonna show you all of it in all of its glory. This is what they look like, this is what they're doing, this is how they are, this is where they come from, this is what the realms mean. These are the good guys, these are the bad guys, they've had a war for a long time. It just is you're just like, okay, I'm hey, I'm in. But hey, sounds good, you know. And what's unique is I agree with you, they're playing it safe in the story-wise, but visually, and they definitely are taking leaps. Oh, they know yes, I agree. And also, the neat thing that Thor has going for it is it hasn't been told 300 times already. You know, we we you know, then that would that's that's something Iron Man had going for it as well. Where you know, the Fantastic Four, we've had bad movies of them. You know, we don't need to see a new reiteration of their origin story. Spider-Man, we've need to see Spider-Man again. And and Feige knows this. That's why we got the movies we've gotten with them, because we don't want to see the origin of them. With Thor, there's people out there that had no idea about what they just know who Thor is from the mythology stuff, but how's it how's it work on Earth again? And so they're able to take their liberties with how it works on Earth and with that and just make it be what it's gonna be, you know, and so it this whole beginning's great. Everybody looks fantastic. I mean, this is a worst store costume, but I think all their costumes start out kind of me and they get better. You know, like I love how Iron Man's costume was and the others, but always sounded like a machine. I like that it gets quieter over time where you don't hear the machine of it as much. Because I'm like in the early these first two Iron Man movies, every time he moves, it's okay, it's cool, you know, and we get it, it's early on, right? But later on it's a little quieter. You know what I mean? So it's okay, it makes more sense, you know, it's a little more slick. And same with, you know, it's in like when we get into Captain America, his looks like pajamas a little bit, you know. When he's in the that's true. When he's in the end suit, he looks like he's in pajamas, you know.

SPEAKER_00 2:20:55

But even in the Avengers movie, it was they kind of because they're well, they're a film back-to-back, so I get it.

SPEAKER_01 2:21:00

But as it goes, it gets a little more practical, a little more military, you know, a little more, and it looks cooler, you know. So, like in either way, though they all still work though, which is what's good about it. You know, and and you know what really stands out that works for me is the cast of people, like them as a group, you know, him and his buddies, all these guys. Oh, I gotta tell you, I could see almost a whole Else World movie of just them on some big adventure. See, that's that's probably a great movie.

SPEAKER_00 2:21:26

That I I tell you, when it comes to the Disney Plus shows and the idea behind Disney Plus of using some of those characters in the background that either become fan favorites or they're just not that relevant to the main MCU thing, so you could do fun stuff with them, like Darcy Lewis. We saw her in WandaVision. Great, great you brought back that character and perfect character to just add into the mix of something. But I would watch a show on I don't know what they're called, and specifically, I know there is a name for them, but I would watch a show on all of them going throughout the nine realms to doing some stuff until fighting fighting battles, learn about them a little bit, what Lady Sith and all the rest of them, like especially them as a group. They're just yeah, it's so funny. They're great with Thor, yes, and yeah, have Chris Chris Hemsworth cameo in the D Disney Plus show. Go right ahead. That'll that'll bring it some oomph and some viewerships, but also just them as a group, they're just so freaking good that I'm like, I would watch them go throughout the nine realms and quench some fires that are out there for on Odin's behalf and Asgard's behalf. That'd be so cool. It'd be awesome. Yeah, it would be great.

SPEAKER_01 2:22:31

And Asdart is awesome, like it looks fantastic. You can tell it's changed a little over the movies here and there, but overall it's about the same, you know, and it it's really good.

SPEAKER_03 2:22:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:22:44

Like I you know, and I and I like, yeah, that they're really to me, they're really that Lord of the Rings-esque opening really helped this movie with uh 10 minutes of like a hard, frustrating opening. You could have easily gone through this whole movie without that opening, and he slowly revealed who he is to them on earth, and we kind of get all that story from him telling them on earth, which to me would have been the biggest mistake because it would have been a long, boring movie. But just to do it like that, and like here we are, boom, we're in it. It's like, oh man, I'm in. Like, I almost didn't want him to go back to Earth. Well, let's just stay here. This is what I want to see, you know. And yeah, no, no offense. The Earth stuff is okay. There's moments in it where it's like, you know, but but that's okay because I think it is supposed to feel that way though, so I'm okay with that, you know. But ultimately, though, like that beginning, man, when they just do this whole here we are, I'm like, oh man, this is good stuff. This is really good stuff. And uh, I do like uh the frost giant guy. Like I that works for me. The frost giants really work for me. Uh Laufie. Yeah, Laufy, thank you. Yeah, uh, he for the first time I I kind of like the menacing feel of him in this. And I'm like, oh wow, you know, I never noticed how subtle that was, you know, and how good that was. And man, I laughed so hard at that part where he the he says, Won't you just leave while I before I change my mind? And Loki's just like, yeah, we'll we'll take that offering. As they're walking away, he calls Thor a little girl, and Loki's like, damn it. Like, great.

SPEAKER_00 2:24:18

Like, I just love that because he's like, Oh, there's no turning back now. Yeah, watching that scene, I'm like, oh I love you you have to defend your honor. Like, damn it.

SPEAKER_01 2:24:27

Oh yeah, so close because Thor wasn't gonna let him slide.

SPEAKER_00 2:24:32

No, and that's perfect for his character, the arrogancy about it. He goes against Odin's will to go to do this, and Odin's like, I know the diplomatic response to this, we don't do this, and all that stuff. It's just it's very it was really refreshing to see. I didn't mean to jump in there. What you're doing.

SPEAKER_04 2:24:49

No, you're fine, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:24:50

Yeah, um so what didn't work for me though, uh, is I do feel like Thor felt a little dumb. And I do, and I I'm only gonna blame this on it's Chris not having a lot of experience yet, because he hasn't been in a lot of stuff, and there's and I feel like sometimes he was a little over the top, and I get it, he is a little bombastic, and I know that his are the argument's gonna be that's kind of what he's supposed to be. It just so for some reason didn't sell right all the every moment that he had a moment where he was okay to calm down a little bit, you know. It's like there's some moments where I felt like okay, that was fake. You know, I didn't feel it natural, you know. And of course, but you are acting, you got a new actor acting with Anthony Hopkins. Yeah. What's gonna look natural, right? But at the same time, Tom Hiddleston made it look easy. So I don't know. It's it's uh I I think that that but that changes. Chris gets better as it goes, it works out, you know, it all gets better in the end.

SPEAKER_00 2:25:48

I'm I'm only chuckling if you're seeing this because we're we have the movie on the background while we're talking about it, and there is there's a still scene of Thor looking at Odin when they're on the it's actually in the same act we're talking about, and looking at Odin that just arrived to Jodenheim, and you see Loki's facial expression behind Chris Hemsworth right there, and he just has this nonchalant like father tier. Yeah. Whereas Chris is like, yeah. Anyways, yeah, yeah. Yeah, anyways.

SPEAKER_01 2:26:19

So yeah, so that so what didn't work for you, what worked for you?

SPEAKER_00 2:26:22

All right, so I will admit when I was doing my um my uh little breakdown here, and we have a review form on this on our retrospectives that I had a hard time with this movie finding too many faults. So I'm I will I'll leave a lot of those comments uh to Ike, and if something pops in my head, I'll I'll concur with it and everything and talk about it. But for me, what worked because is kind of what I was expecting for a first Thor film, especially trying to get into the mindset of not only where was I, but where was the world that time, or was the MCU world at that time for movies and stuff like that. I thought everything worked really well. Um, I can't begin to express how well I think this film was as a good start to uh the mythological part of the MCU. And it it hit every note for me. Seeing Asgard was just so beautiful. Oh, it's it was it's Asgard is one of those worlds, and that's why I think in the Disney Plus show with all his men right there, I would just want to walk the streets of Asgard just to see what it's like, their culture and everything. And we see as the Thor movies go on, that you get to see a little more of a sliver of it in the second movie, in the third movie, even though it dies, it goes it keeps going to uh um more about it. Um, and it's just you could tell when you're talking about the age of the film, and that's like an overall thing, that um they Marvel took big leaps with the CGI for it, because of course they had to make Asgard look very um heavenly to a degree, and there's only so much practical effects you could do with that. But even some of the other stuff they did, they it you could tell this the first time of using heavy CGI in comparison to the Iron Man films. Like for Iron Man, I would say that the most CGI that had to be done were his fight scenes and anything involving his suit when it was in action. And you can tell that Tony was uh Robert Downey Jr. was walking around in a practical suit here or there sometimes. And then when action was happening, you could tell where they embellished the CGI elements and they really could pour their focus in on that. So the the CGI parts really went to that. Whereas for this movie, you had a lot more of a CGI background to some of the scenes, a lot more of the characters had to look like the Frost Giants, they had to look a certain way that the you can't tell they were human-like. Like they're they're a little human, but you can't just say it was a blue person, you know what I mean? They had to be embellished to a degree. Some of the creatures in there is the first time we're seeing them in the MCU. So, of course, you're talking about early CGI at that time. I think it holds up because the story was so good that, like we've talked about before, we could forgive CGI if we're getting a good entertainment value out of it. And that's what really saved this movie for the CGI part of it. But other than that, you could tell this is their infancy in in stuff like that, and only gets better when Disney started taking over production with Marvel Studios. They just had they opened up a whole plethora of stuff that Paramount I don't think was just used to at that time. Whereas Disney, they kind of built their brand on some of this fantastical stuff. Anyways, um, what else worked for me? The story was an excellent origin. I think it was done right, and I think, and this part of my hot take at the very end, I think this film deserves a lot more recognition than I think that it does in the grand scale of the MCU when you're thinking about all the endless movies and shows and projects that they have. This definitely deserves that that pedestal recognition of a movie. Um I'll just say that the only nitpick I really had personally for myself was the the look of Thor. I it was good, it was okay. I'll say this for an origin, the beginning, first movie, first step, and you already talked about this. It's a good first step, and it I do like his appearances after this a lot more. Yeah, um, especially when you get to Thor 2 and Avengers Age of Ultron, those looks of Thor, chef's kiss for me. I think that's like the perfect look of Thor. And then go on.

SPEAKER_01 2:30:17

What's best about that is this is his worst look and it's still good.

SPEAKER_00 2:30:20

Oh, yes, yes.

SPEAKER_01 2:30:22

Which is a testament to how well this movie worked.

SPEAKER_00 2:30:24

Yeah, and funny enough. This is the only film where Chris Hemsworth dyed his eyebrows to match his hair color. The rest of them, he wanted to have a more natural look, which means he kept his natural brown hair for the eyebrows. As I was watching it, I'm like, what is wrong with his face? What's different about his face? And that's what's different is that he went full-on blonde hair, yeah, Norse mythology type stuff like that. Anyways, so um, I'll tell you what my standout moment was, and I'll let you share yours, and then we'll get our score for the first for act one of the breakdown. Um, there are so many standout moments for me, honestly. Asgard is just that that is one of the standout moments, is them being able to create a world that you felt like you were out of your world, and not just Asgard when they're pulling back the camera and they're just showing it as a landscape, but when you go into the royal palace and you go into their their dining hall room type thing, uh even even the room that's underneath the palace where all the trophies are and the the it was the eternal frost or the eternal winter casket thing is there. I've forgot the name of it at the top of my head, but um that's just its own uniqueness uh in the whole thing. It's I definitely want one of those um what what's that magazine? I think it is it Vogue or some magazine that goes to celebrities' houses and they ask them questions while they're taking a tour.

SPEAKER_01 2:31:51

I think you're right. I think it's Vogue, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:31:52

I want Disney. If you're listening to this, do that with the MCU. Especially with Thor, because it would be hilarious. I uh you even if you don't want to get like a higher paid actor to do it, get someone like Lady Sif or something, no offense to her, but you know, get some of those C tier characters that we see all the time. Get Thor's mother taking a walk through Asgard and answering questions about Thor mythology right there. That would be all the characters.

SPEAKER_01 2:32:18

I want to see Hawkeye's house again, but from there.

SPEAKER_00 2:32:20

We won't see Tony's house with him doing that, or Pepper introducing it, you know. Yeah, Wakanda. Oh, I would love when we get to there, we'll get to there. Steve's, yeah. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:32:32

Or just Bucky's, which is some like basement somewhere. I mean it'd be great. Like I think it'd be fun.

SPEAKER_00 2:32:37

Ant Man going through the ant stuff. That that'd be anyways. That'd be a fun funny show. There's a good Disney Plus show idea. But anyways, um, for that, um, the frost giant scene, I think was one of the my favorite scenes in Act One. It's great. That was just well written, well choreographed for the fighting, and just great storytelling, just really good in the acting part. But, anyways, what's your standout moment?

SPEAKER_01 2:32:58

So I got kind of three, I guess. Um I I love the Lord of the Rings opening. We already talked about that. To me, that really stood out. That really is good. Um the other standout these the first two are like throwaway standout moments, but I'll tell you my real one, I guess, at the end. But the second one is uh the moment when uh freaking Odin hisses at Loki when he's trying to like Anthony Hopkins' choice to just like when he interrupts Loki when Loki's trying to stand up for Thor after they get back, his choice of just going, ah, yeah, it's like it's like whoa. But it's like that's awesome, and that's improvised. Yeah, it was, yeah. Anthony Anthony's one of the best you can get, man. And especially for anything that is in that Shakespearean realm, which this is a hundred percent. But like he just when he does that, I'm like, I I forgot that when I watch it, I'm like, oh, that's that was like, whoa, it is okay. I love that moment. But for me, it was it was also realizing when they were all sitting there as a group contemplating what to do, and Thor was like, Yeah, let's go off. And just let's beat this guy's butt. But just realizing I want to see a movie of this group of people, that stood out to me how I forgot the how well the chemistry worked with all of them together, even at that moment. And that's a very standout moment to me that I don't know if it would have worked that well if they all felt really out of place. But they didn't. They really I like where they were in that. I liked it a lot. So that to me, those three moments are like, well, that's that's cool. So all right.

SPEAKER_00 2:34:24

So out of a score for the first act, what would you give it? I give it an eight out of ten.

unknown 2:34:29

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 2:34:31

I was I was a little more favorable to this just because it was so epic to me and watching it and just how weight made way it made me feel and things like that. So I gave this score as a 10 out of 10. Okay. Which I know that's I so what I need to do for my scoring rate, because I know my brother has a little bit different when he thinks of those bigger numbers, like, oh, you're very loose with my like not in a negative way, but like I could be a little loose with my higher scores. I base base a lot of that on how it made me feel, to be honest.

SPEAKER_01 2:34:59

And well, it's a testament to how good these movies are, though, too. It's when we especially when we're re-watching them like this, just imagine how good this is, and you know there's better coming. How good are those gonna be now? Yeah, you know, so like uh it's not I'm not telling you you're doing it wrong. Hey, you score it the way you need to score it. I get it, you know what I mean? But it is a testament to how good they are, where you just you almost feel bad giving it a lower because you're like, that was way more fun.

SPEAKER_00 2:35:24

I know because uh as when I watch these movies now, and now this, like I said, this is our fourth movie doing this. I'm really having to think about all right, how critical can I be with this movie? Is this uh and you know, one thing we need to add to our thing is all the Stanley cameos. We need to add its own little section for that, because maybe anyway, I don't know. We'll talk about that. At some point, we're gonna do like our top five or top ten best Stanley cameos, but yeah, we haven't been bringing them up the way. We haven't, no, and it just hit me because he's on the screen right now. I'm like, oh, the father of Marvel. Why are we not talking about more often, anyways? But um, no, I I base a lot of this off of feelings, and so when I'm going through the breakdown of these, I'm really trying to nitpick them the best I can. Part of me is like, you know what? I'm okay with just calling them what I view, in my opinion, as a good part of the film, just good part of the film. So, you know, like things like that. So, but believe me, when I get critical, I will get critical, and they're not all gonna be tens, so that's a that's a big leap. You always count on me to get as critical as I can. So don't worry. I'll reel it in a little bit, folks. All right, so uh what how about you read act two and we'll break that guy down?

SPEAKER_01 2:36:35

Yes, act two, uh, the rising conflict. Okay, so Thor attempts to reclaim me Mil New York, Milnor, the hammer, but fails, proving he is no longer worthy. I could never say that darn thing right.

SPEAKER_00 2:36:52

I love when Darcy Lewis says that when yeah, what'd she call it?

SPEAKER_01 2:36:56

Mew Mew. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Stranded and powerless, he begins to change, learning humility and compassion through his time with Jane and the others. Meanwhile, Loki manipulates events in Asgard, allowing Odin to fall into the Odin sleep. Okay, what is the Odin sleep? Anyway, and taking control of the throne to eliminate Thor, Loki sends the destroyer to Earth. In a pivotal moment, Thor sacrifices himself to save others, demonstrating true selflessness. This act of heroism restores his worthiness, and Mjun returns to him, bringing back his powers.

SPEAKER_00 2:37:41

So I don't know where they get the word Mjonor from. Is there in all this Norse mythology?

SPEAKER_01 2:37:46

Yeah, oh, absolutely. And I'll tell you right now, there's so many words in Norse mythology that are just like, why? That's not a word. They didn't say that word.

SPEAKER_00 2:37:55

Yeah, they're just making it up. Like when I found out Thor's mother's name is Frigga, I'm like, Frigga? That's that's your name.

SPEAKER_01 2:38:00

Is it Frigga or is it uh Freya? No, no, because Freya is the god of I don't know, folks. I think it's Frigga. I'm like, Frigga.

SPEAKER_00 2:38:10

Yeah, why? What the Frigga are you talking about?

SPEAKER_01 2:38:12

Anyways, um why? So what worked for you? So what works for me in this is I like the relationship he starts with the people on Earth. Um I love the stuff in Asgard of Loki figuring out who he is and all that. I mean, that's kind of part of the last scene, but I I I do like that you get this idea behind him that okay, oh no, Loki's kind of more of a bad guy than we thought. Like at first, you're always, and I think that's an eating they play with Loki a lot in going further in the future, is you're you're kind of like never sure how far bad he is. And then this just kind of demonstrates that where it's like not only do we know that he's now he's gonna try to get rid of his brother and keep his brother gone, but he kind of set it all up in the first place, which makes you go, Oh, okay. So this is even further than just taking advantage of a situation. He's actually the reason why it's happening, you know. And and I like that, I really like that. You know, the Odin sleep thing is weird to me. It's kind of in the middle of a conversation, so I'm just gonna go to sleep, blah, blah, blah. It's like there was really no warning to like what this meant and where it came from. It didn't really explain that well. Um, but that's okay because it's weird, and I like that it's weird and it's in that's part of it, right? That makes it fun. Um, that stuff worked for me. All the Asgard stuff really worked for me. Um, I will say, let's see, let me make sure I'm keeping in the same spot here. Yeah, I think Loki taking control of the throne is uh a lot of fun, and it's a lot of unique. Uh I feel like nobody else lives in Asgard, though. I think that's the one thing they may have. So I'll go into what didn't work for me because this is where some of that comes in for me. It's like we only see like nine people in Asgard this whole time, right? It's a city of people.

SPEAKER_00 2:40:05

Where are they? I mean, didn't we see them all when they were celebrating, but that was it? Yeah. It's like I just I just would like to see there's not even a servant walking around.

SPEAKER_01 2:40:15

Every scene is like three guys, you know, and that's about it. And I and maybe that's okay, I get it, guys. It's uh, you know, budget, man. It's Asgard. It's everything in that probably costs money every time they're filming it. But gosh, man, it's just Asgard felt like it was like the a town and not a city of a realm, really, you know, it didn't feel that way. So it but once again, that's that's not it's not the worst thing in the world, okay. Um what didn't work for me is I gotta be honest, man, like I don't buy the relationship between Jane Foster and Thor. That and I don't I don't buy Thor gaining back his worthiness either. I don't understand what what the point was because it's like if he's I'm gonna try to be very nice here. He's trying to to prove that he should have the hammer is kind of like this idea of him and how good of a king he can be. And what I do like is they throw in in the beginning part of this movie when Odin banished him, he whispered the curse you could say into the hammer of you can't have this back unless you're someone that you know anyone now can wield the hammer if you are worthy. Because he kind of put it on there. He took it away from his son and put it into the hammer, basically. And I like that. I just don't think him going outside and standing in front of this machine is I'll just let myself die. I don't know if that was the lesson he needed to learn. I don't think that was a problem Thor had. I think Thor would have given his life for anybody. I don't think that was a problem he had. And to me, it's like well, there's a lesson here about being a king and being honorable and making good decisions and the right decisions. You know, being able to put yourself on the line for someone else's life was not, in my opinion, Thor's problem. That wasn't what he failed at. He failed at seeing when it was right to be diplomatic and when it's right to not be. Where sometimes making peace with your enemies is better than not making peace with your enemies. And I guess in that argument, you could say he's kind of making peace with Loki by saying, just take me and say, you know, let everybody else be, you're here for me. I okay, I guess if you want to nitpick, but truthfully, it really just comes off as he's willing to give his life up for them. He'd have given his life for all of them in the beginning. You know, he was literally putting his own life on the line to go there and confront them in the first place. So I don't see if you're looking for the honorable thing to do of putting your life on the line, I don't think that was Thor's problem. And I think that message got lost in the movie, and it's simply because the stuff on Earth wasn't working story-wise. I think that that fell flat. I don't think there was any kind of the only stuff we saw of him on earth that was any kind of struggle was him beating people up in the hospital, maybe some funny moments of you know, the interaction between the fish out of water story of him being from Asgard and and us being from Earth, and he throws a coffee. I mean, these are all great scenes. I'm not saying they're bad. I'm just saying if you're gonna talk about him accepting his worthiness or what it means to be worthy of the hammer, then why did it take so long for Steve to pick it up? Because Steve was all of these things, you know, and I know arguably everyone can say he could always pick it up, but I don't think that's the case. I don't think so. I I do believe that the worthiness of the hammer wasn't, I just don't think they expressed that well in this movie. And I do think that it was a writing problem. I think they put all their thought and all their process into what Asgard and that whole story is gonna be, which is why all that works so well. But then they're like, oh crap, we gotta still kind of do this thing. I just gotta hook to earth and it's gotta have this. And well, why don't we just well, you know, well, if he just saves, you know, he puts his life on the line for these people in this other realm that are, you know, that are just you know smaller than him. It's like, isn't that what Odin and them did all the time anyway? I don't understand the problem here. I'm I'm not seeing where Thor learned anything. He really didn't learn anything, you know, and it's like, and then that's kind of the point was Odin wanted him to learn something. I just don't see it as earned. I'm not saying the scenes on Earth are bad. I'm just saying I don't buy their relationship. I don't she falls in love with a guy who sounds freaking insane, you know, and anyone that wakes up in the hospital and starts beating up doctors, you're going to jail, you know. And of course, I know that's what they did in this, and I understand that, but it's like where those scenes are fun and good and anecdotal, it just the overall purpose of him getting the hammer back. I don't know. And if you're asking me how it should have been done, truthfully, I think there should have been a time gap. I think that there should have been a two years later, and he's been acclimated into living on earth with her as a boyfriend. And then this come and then maybe something comes up somehow that makes him feel like he has to go back home, or Loki's plans take that long. I think there is something in there that could have been done right. I don't know, that sounds awful too, I guess. I don't know, I don't know, guys. All I know is it didn't, it didn't, I didn't buy it. I just didn't buy it. So that's what didn't work for me. It was a lot of the earth stuff and her, and not not Natalie Portman herself. I just don't think they knew what to do with her. And we'll get I'll get we'll get into that later as well.

SPEAKER_00 2:45:50

So one thing I will say, just the piggyback off of that thing that you that you did say, um and I'm trying to remember specifically in the comics what Natalie Portman's actual job description was, but I don't think she was an astrophysicist like they made her in the movies. If I remember it right, and please, comic book nerds, tell me in the comments below, let me know if I'm wrong on this. But from the interpretations that I remember seeing, and I I'm not like um I'm not as well versed on the Marvel Comics version of Thor as as well as some of these other characters, because there's just so many. But from the times of Jane Foster that I see, I think she's just a nurse that takes took care of him and the kind of they've developed feelings for each other. I don't think she was an astrophysicist. So I they did re-write her to a degree in here, and I see the purpose of rewriting her for this, if that's exactly what they did, is to sort of be that science and versus magic gap of bridging. Um, she's a representation of Earth trying to understand that there's more out there, and he's the embodiment of something more out there. So I see where that will be a natural drawn curiosity of her. I do agree that when she um meets him, no sane person would be in love with someone that's like this. Because though he may look appealing to the eyes, he looks back crap crazy when how he's acting and things like that. So I I get I get that part of it. Um I just don't buy they fell in love. I just don't buy that they fell for each other at all. I I buy that Thor fell in love with her because she's this beautiful woman he's laid eyes on, and he's learning the scope of of her through his eyes and that scene of them under the stars, and he's explaining what you see as science. I see where I come from as magic, and they're both one and the same in those regards. I I think that's a good touching moment between the both of them where I can see where she's not only drawn to him physically anymore because he just is Chris Emsworth, but um there is an intellectual part of him that isn't displayed throughout all his other actions, and I think that that's the part that um that's where I see that their chemistry start to develop. I do think in the second movie, when we get there, they have more chemistry together as a as a solidified couple. But I agree that in the beginning of their relationship, it's it's touchy, it's yeah, it's different. Well, I won't die on that hill as much as I would die on. I just don't believe his worthiness stuff. It's just I just don't the worthiness stuff that I'm I'll touch upon. Uh I was as I was listening to you, and I'm not just doing this as a rebut you or anything, but we'll do it because yeah. This is just my point of view. When he um brought his companions to Jodenheim to confront confront Laufe, the frost giants, about the um the the little espionage scheme in in on Asgard, I I see that as him doing a selfish thing of taking his friends with him to do some their their intent was to beat them up and teach them a lesson so they never come back there and all that stuff. He didn't understand the diplomatic parts of things where they had a uh peace treaty, and though some of their their people act arrogantly or um foolishly, that doesn't justify breaking a treaty type thing, whereas Thor is more arrogant and says, No, they they attacked us. And so that's when Odin's like, if anything, I'll handle this diplomatically, and they already paid for it with their lives, but Thor's just Thor and him going to Jodenheim versus like one of the other people going to Jodenheim is different because he's the he's the son of he can actually enact wars, whereas some of those other frost giants, which is actually a smart thing for Loki to do, just say, hey, send some of your frost giants over to do this, so we have justification to go in there. And I know my brother, he is arrogant enough to go in there, so there's a little bit of smart trickery in in that. I I see all that, yeah. Yeah, but for our the worthiness thing, when he took his friends over there, he was being selfish because that was his desire to do that. But him trying to sacrifice himself against the that destroyer thing, that was I can see where that would be displayed as the first time he's showing a selfishness from him that he doesn't want everyone else to die. I I'm sure if put in this situation with him and his comrades on Jonheim, he probably would have said, I'll sacrifice myself on their behalf. But also I think it just is a testament to his arrogance being curved. That's that's how I'm that's how I'm picturing how the movie is trying to interpret worthiness. Now does I think you're I think you're 100% correct, it's exactly what they're doing.

SPEAKER_01 2:50:37

Yeah, I just think I don't know if it translates into the rest of the movies, though, moving forward. I'm not even trying to include the moving forward. All I'm saying is if that's all it means to be worthy for the hammer, then there's a lot of people worthy for that hammer. And I think that that's where it that's where I get a little, oh, I think it means a little more than that, you know. I don't think that was the lesson that Odin was trying to teach him. I I'm with I see what you mean. He made a selfish act taking those people. I get it. I he still would have given his life for them, though.

SPEAKER_02 2:51:08

You know, because Thor wasn't wrong for doing what he did.

SPEAKER_01 2:51:14

Uh I might disagree with Odin on some of this. Yeah. I don't know if war would have been the answer, but Thor wasn't wrong for going there and being like, hey, what's up?

SPEAKER_00 2:51:23

Or for being upset and wanting to confirm it. Yeah, that's totally justifiable. Yeah. Um Odin just had a lot of people.

SPEAKER_01 2:51:29

Now Thor keeping us cool is a different story, right? But I don't think you need to keep her cool in order to wield the hammer, you know? It's like when you're talking about worthiness to have the power of Thor, it is such a big deal. It all comes down to an act of selfless, selflessness. Yeah, I don't know. No, I'm just it just I don't yeah, okay. If that's what they want you, I think that's exactly I think they get the point across in the movie. I just think I just don't buy that point. I just I don't think that that's it doesn't make sense to me. You know, I think it would have made more sense. Honestly, it almost would have made more sense if Thor did nothing about it. You know, I'm I'm still trying to what's the lesson he's learning to not think of himself and think of others, right?

SPEAKER_02 2:52:15

I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 2:52:17

Yeah, I I cheap. I get I get your point where it's and I don't want to say this in the in a bad way, but it's like a minute character trait. Then all of a sudden anyone who feels the way to Odin is making it sound like that almost anyone can pick it up if they have that sense of that. But it's interesting.

SPEAKER_01 2:52:39

He's not a very good person, like he's not he's a good person, he's a good man. Like he means well, but he's always learning about what that means to mean well and do the best thing.

SPEAKER_00 2:52:50

Yeah, and he always has an arrogant streak about him. Yeah, even after I mean this movie, it shows he's like on a spectrum, he's like 100% arrogant, and all of a sudden he gets he gets like bogged down to less than 50%, so he's learning humility throughout this movie. But even future iterations of him, he's still got arrogance in him. It's just it's not the level of this where maybe that's where you get unworthy of Thor. I don't I don't know. Yeah, I just it just didn't feel as earned, you know.

SPEAKER_01 2:53:17

And you know, honestly, when you if you think about it, then too, like his crew come down to earth to help him the same way that he left under distress with Odin. It's okay, yeah, they're going against Loki's you know, I know that Loki was a bad guy, and if they didn't go down, it wouldn't help, but isn't it the same thing though? You know, and the king told you not to, and you went and did it. It's like so what is learned here? Nah, I don't see it. I just don't see it. Uh if you if I were to tell you, what did Thor learn at the end when you're standing there and they're looking, what did he really learn out of this whole thing?

SPEAKER_02 2:53:52

The the most I'd say is humility. But did he? You know? It's like he would have given his life for other people.

SPEAKER_01 2:54:02

I don't know. I just I don't know, I just don't see it. I don't buy it.

SPEAKER_02 2:54:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:54:06

And is that enough to say that's what it means to wield a millionaire? Yeah, I I get that point of view. Is that if that's the case, Cap should have had it when he was a baby.

unknown 2:54:16

Oh.

SPEAKER_01 2:54:16

Because he was born this way. Like you know what I'm saying?

unknown 2:54:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:54:20

Like you're talking about a guy who wanted to go to war, he's like three foot two and weighed 20 pounds. You know what I mean? Like I don't exaggerating. Selfless person of all the people jumped on a grenade, you know, that was a fake grenade, and we'll get to that movie, but I'm just saying, it's like if there's if you're talking about selflessness and what it means to do the right thing, Captain America, you know, which which makes sense why he can wield million year later. You know, but look how long. Wait a minute. Like you're telling me Cap at the beginning of Age of Ultron wasn't wasn't wasn't worthy of Millionaire? Come on. I don't know. But Thor is? So to me, it's like, what does it really mean to make the right decision sometimes means not making the decision you normally would.

SPEAKER_00 2:54:59

And we as fans, we could theorize why Cap wasn't able to lift it up in Age of Ultron. The the the general consensus is at the end of the day, it's based on face value. He couldn't, he almost could lift them up, but like he moved it, but he couldn't lift it. Um I'm gonna call spade a spade though.

SPEAKER_01 2:55:16

The problem is the store couldn't end this movie without his hammer and they just didn't know what to do. And that's the earth stuff was just not working. Sorry. That's my opinion. I I'm yeah, I understand. I see why you feel the way you do, and I and that's exactly how they want you to feel because that's their justification.

SPEAKER_00 2:55:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:55:32

But it just to me, that's where it fell real flat.

SPEAKER_00 2:55:35

It it need more of a flush fleshing out type thing, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:55:40

Or something deeper to the meaning of holding the hammer. You know, it there had to be to me, it really needed to feel like there was more of a purpose there. You know, it didn't it it could have you could have kept all the same stuff, just had a difference in that is all. I don't know. You know, I don't have the answer either, guys. I just know for me when I'm watching it, I was like, ugh, not happy with.

SPEAKER_02 2:56:00

With that.

SPEAKER_00 2:56:00

So yeah. Alright. So um for me, what worked for me was this in my personal view at least, it's this God to man complex type thing that to um is the learning of humility for me that worked for me in this act is that um he had to getting out of his comfort zone of being the chosen child of the the all-father, yeah, and then all of a sudden he's not only in a different realm, but it's a uh less advanced realm than what Asgard is. And so he's able to see those different points of view. And I'm with you. I like the fish out of the water stuff, yeah. In the serious moments of it, is good. Yeah. It's real good. That's good. I think that that was part of the whole if if it wasn't for that part of the story, I don't think we would have gotten Thor having a character arc of being worthy to a degree, you know, uh, or being um showing some humility and toning down the arrogance. I think if we didn't have that, um, that he was sent to Mid-Gard Earth, um, we wouldn't have had it like that. Um gotcha. But I do like the comic accuracy of of how Thorpe does tone down his arrogance. I think that was part of the comics too, that really set him up to be one of the pillars of the MCU and also the pillars in the comics when you think about it too. Agreed, yeah. So I did like that. What I had a hard time saying what didn't work for me because I did see it differently than how you saw it. So when I was watching this movie and thinking about what part didn't work for me, there really wasn't too much for me to nitpick on. So I just I hold my thoughts on that. That's fine. Did the pacing hold up? I don't know if the pacing hold up for you. For me, it did because I never lost my interest. Yeah, so the pacing's fine.

SPEAKER_01 2:57:47

Like I there was never a moment where I felt like it got dull. Yeah. Even though I had those questions and I was I didn't care for the storytelling of that, of that moment of or of their of his getting the hammer back. I even though I didn't buy that, I don't feel like they lagged. I don't I I really I thought they moved it right along, you know. Where I yeah, sure, I wish other things were were happening and it was better, but that that had nothing to do with the pacing, though, at all. The movie didn't feel like it got long or short because of it.

SPEAKER_00 2:58:16

So yeah, pacing's good. All right, so let's see. Um, what's your best character moment or favorite character moment?

SPEAKER_01 2:58:23

I in this act, um, I'm gonna I saved one for my favorite moment of the whole movie later. Um, but I do I like when he takes the guy to the bar. And and I just love there's that moment where he brings him back drunk and he lays him down and he kind of turns to him and he's just like, you know, I don't think you say you're who you are, but boy, I wish you were. You know what I mean? And I'm just and then and even Thor is just like he did his ancestors proud today, you know, and it that showed that Thor is a good guy, like he's a guy you want to hang out with that deep down in the arrogance, in all that stuff, in where he's gotta learn a lot of things. He's a good person, you know, and he's he's someone that that treats people well, he's not out to be mean, you know, because he's a guy who doesn't think he's even telling the truth and they're drinking, they're let's just do this, you know. Yeah, and and it was very funny at the bar when they are drinking and you're trying to do the compete and stuff. It's like you're just not gonna keep up with this guy. No, I like the character moment because it showed that funny side of him and the fun side of him that we we need to see in this. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:59:27

Yeah, and well, for character, I I probably should have put like a specific scene. I mean, I did write down a specific scene for me, but it's uh I don't know if it's spoilery to say that it's one of my favorite scenes of the whole movie. I'd have to really look back and see where where that part is when we get to that spot. But um I I liked the whole um the lifting up or trying to lift up Mjornier uh scene that was with him, with Thor? With Thor. Yeah. I thought that especially for knowing that Chris Hensworth is that new of an actor, and there's not really too much of an acting, acting part of this. It's just him being arrogant and thinking, oh, I could take on, oh, you're a big guy. I could take it. Yeah, that's a great scene. That was it was really cool. I just to me, there was a there was a just for me as a viewer, or maybe me as a just a passionate viewer of it, there was more of an emotional moment for it when he f gets to Mirnir and he realizes that what his dad said, or actually, his dad banished him before he did that thing, right? Or did his dad and then did the same time. Yeah, so Thor didn't know that that he couldn't lift up the hammer, right? Right part of the humility of he's mad at his dad for not letting him pick up the hammer, but also yeah, this um it was just to me that was a very emotional scene if he realizes. And it's something that actually plays him for the rest of not plagues, but plays him for the rest of the um his arc in the rest of the movies, is that he's like bound by this hammer of that's where he has his power, where he needs to learn. And this is part of the first step of learning of his humility, is that true power does come from him on his self-control, on who he is, and he he is he's still Thor without the hammer. And it's funny that we see this in this movie, and then when we get to Ragnarok, that's like the main theme of the whole movie before his arc too. So I love how that just it's rippled throughout his his um rest of his time. Um anyway, so quick mention too.

SPEAKER_01 3:01:30

This is when we first meet Hawkeye. Yes, oh, yes, and that's a great from not seeing him do anything that we know he can do. What a great introduction of his cockiness speaks for his what his ability is. Yeah, you realize, oh, this guy can do things and the way he's talking, you know, and we didn't need to see him do it.

SPEAKER_00 3:01:48

Love the just love the line where he's like, You gotta tell me when because I'm starting to root for this guy. Yeah, but yeah. So you want me to put him down or you want to send more guys in for him to beat up? He's just like this the whole time. Yeah, ready to go. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:02:01

You know, a great introduction to a character that turns out to be awesome.

SPEAKER_00 3:02:04

So yeah, yeah. That's that's why I felt like for Black Widow and Iron Man 2 is that I mean he he Hawkeye doesn't have that big of a scene stealing moments or scenes at all compared to Scarlett Johansson's Black Widow and Iron Man 2. But those are the type of characters where they work better being introduced in other characters, yeah, I agree. Uh, films, especially bigger named or bigger powerful or bigger story arcing characters. I do think, and I do hold this opinion that you could make a kick butt assassin movie of Black Widow, but at the same time for how they introduced her and how they introduced Hawkeye here, perfect ways to introduce them. These are the type of characters where you learn to love them as they're ensemble, and then you want to see what they could be like in either a solo project, whether it's a show like Hawkeye or a movie like Black Widow, and then then you could have fun with it more.

SPEAKER_01 3:02:55

Why they never did a show of their Budapest thing. I never understood.

SPEAKER_00 3:02:58

Yeah, that that's yeah, I I completely agree. That when we get to the Black Widow movie, that's gonna definitely be part of our discussions when it gets to that. But, anyways, what's your score of the second act? Five out of ten.

SPEAKER_01 3:03:12

Oh I think I just shot an arrow into Sammy's heart.

SPEAKER_00 3:03:19

Oh boy. All right, sorry folks, we don't need to get into a lie, but um my score is a 9.5 out of 10. Almost a 10. Um all right, so uh I'm I'm gonna read we're on to the final act now of the movie. So um I'm gonna read to you the um the little breakdown of it, and then we'll get into our final thoughts of the the whole film at large and things like that. Okay. Alright, so um now fully restored, Thor returns to Asgard to confront Loki. The conflict is reveals Loki's deep resentment and deserves and desire for approval from Odin. As Loki attempts to destroy Jodenheim using the Bifrost, Thor makes a drastic choice, destroying the Bifrost bridge to stop him, knowing it will sever his connection to Earth and Jane. Odin awakens and intervenes as Loki falls into the void after rejecting help. Thor accepts the consequences of his actions, having finally matured into a worthy hero and future king. So, did the ending land for you?

SPEAKER_01 3:04:28

Uh yes and no. Once again, I feel like I still don't feel like he uh got the hammer in a right way, but I do love this ending. I like the fight between him and Loki, and I like all the stuff on the Rainbow Bridge. Um I think it worked for me in the sense that I'll just accept the fact that he got the hammer because I'm a good guy. Okay. So here he is, now he's doing his thing. And uh yeah, I uh it was very clear resolution, obviously. Um Odin waking up and coming out of his thing, I still don't quite understand all that either, but that's okay. It it worked just fine. Um, I like that Sora destroys the Bifrost. I like that that there's a thing to the disconnection that they have to have where it's and it kind of that goes on later on to play out too in Thor's stuff where sometimes you have to get rid of something in order for it to work, you know. So um my biggest issue is I still struggle with him uh with him, you know, being where like what what has he learned here? You know, the the action is great though, and this is some of the best Loki stuff too. I really enjoy it a lot. Um, my favorite, I'll go, I'll just do one of my favorite uh the best moment in act three is uh I like it when he uh sets the hammer on Loki and then goes. Yeah. I I like this theme, gets this played out again in other movies. This idea that no one can lift the hammer, so you can literally just use it as I'm just gonna set it on you. And you can't do anything. And I'm like part of it, it's it feels like a cheat, but it's like, yes, don't let anyone think that you can't do that. You know, I love that he does that when he in the moments he does it in other movies are fantastic. And I like that he just sets it on him and then walks away. It's just like, I can't do anything. I I love that moment, so that was a good moment.

SPEAKER_00 3:06:19

That's funny, yes. Uh, from for me, if the ant let if the ending landed well for me or why not, and I put yes, for me it did land well for me because um it was just uh for me, uh it was Odin understanding his children, even though the truth hurts when he finds out about uh Loki and how he feels, and it's it's kind of like one of those things where if you put it into like a real life perspective, like if you're hiding something big from your child, like your child's adopted in Loki's case, stuff like that. And then event eventually when your child does find out, and sometimes they find out sooner than you want them to find out, you as a parent are just never prepared for it, and uh Old and able to just sleep it off, but um go take a nap. And not only for not only for Loki, but also for uh Thor's sake is that he does a fatherly lesson in teaching him humility in this, and he learns that his his oldest son can be a great leader, and his youngest son has lost his way now. Or I I feel like in the beginning it was kind of a little bit different where Loki wanted to be a leader. You could tell he won't he he didn't actively pursue being like gripey about it, but I mean he tried to seize a throne guy, so we know, yeah, and for sure, and so it kind of like was a little bit of a reversal in that. I think that was kind of cool. Um, and um, I think that for Thor, the objective of the movie was by the end he had to have his hammer because he has to get ready for the Avengers, and so I even if it felt a little rushed, maybe we could have done it a little bit differently here or there. I think it was uh good enough resolution for him as a character for this film. Yeah, I agree. All right. So best moment in act three for you. Um I I said for myself is what you already said uh that you touched upon, Thor destroying the Bifrost. That's to me, that was a symbol symbolism of Thor realizing what the and Thor realizing what the consequences are, that he knew he had to do the right thing even that meant he never could see Jane again.

SPEAKER_01 3:08:14

Yeah, I'm gonna agree with you on that. I I did say my best moment was when he sets the hammer on him because I just think it's funny. But yeah, no, that is a very that's a I mean, and breaking the uh awesome the rainbow bridge, how it was breaking. That's a very humility humility um Yeah, but he already had the hammer, so you can't do it. I know. Now, if he didn't have the hammer and he was there doing it, I'm with you. Yeah. But yeah. He changed, even though he already had the hammer. He changed, folks. He did what he'd do. You can change the done anything. You can change stuff. He would have put his life on the line for anybody. Like, what are we talking about? He changed my ass. Anyway.

SPEAKER_00 3:08:52

Uh what was your biggest issue?

SPEAKER_01 3:08:54

Did you already say it? Yeah, uh, I yeah, basically I still just didn't buy a lot of this. Like I didn't buy the, you know, it all lands good with what they want us to think, but I didn't quite buy it working, truthfully. So uh was the climax earned for you. Yes, yeah. I mean, I love the climax. Like, I think it's great. I think the fight between him and Loki's good. It's it's not so physical as it is uh emotional, and it's what it needs to be because it's being Shakespearean and the way it's set up, it's gotta be that way.

SPEAKER_00 3:09:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:09:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:09:23

And for me, yes, it obviously it did if the landing, and for me, I think the climax definitely land for me too. So I'm giving this again a 9.5 out of 10. I'm gonna give it a 7 out of 10. It's better than the second act for him. So there you go. All right. Um, so now we're gonna move on to the post-credit scene. Yeah, it's a quick one, it's an easy one. Yeah, and actually, when I was watching it, I forgot about the scene. Me too. I don't even think I'm watching this and I'm like, did I even ever watch this scene?

SPEAKER_01 3:09:51

Yeah, I don't remember it. I I remember seeing it before, but I was just like, Oh, yeah, that's right. That's what this was. Yeah, it took a minute.

SPEAKER_00 3:09:57

Yeah, but I forgot all about uh Dr. Eric Selvig is brought to a shield facility by Nick Fury. We get Samuel L. Jackson Cameo again, who shows him a mysterious cube, the Tesseract. Fury suggests it could be a source of unlimited power, and unbeknownst to Selvik, Loki, still alive, appears in ref in his in a reflection, subtly influencing him.

SPEAKER_01 3:10:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:10:20

So um the purpose of this was to set up the Avengers. How important do you think actually was?

SPEAKER_01 3:10:26

I I think it's important because it it establishes Loki's still alive, and he ultimately becomes the first major villain in an Avengers movie later. So it it it starts that process of Loki's not gonna be this easy to get rid of guy, you know. Then everyone loves him, so they're kind of like, ooh, he's still there, you know. I don't think anyone thought him falling like that was him dying anyway. You know, I think it all kind of was we could all say without the cameo of him at the end being alive that oh, he's coming back somehow. This is gonna kill him. Um, because it is so good, you know, and and it's and we all know that he's a big part anyway, you know. Um, but this solidifies it and it helps move, it helps that you know, march to the first Avengers movie, you know, really helps it along big time.

SPEAKER_00 3:11:10

And funny enough, I put I don't think it's as important.

SPEAKER_01 3:11:13

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 3:11:14

That well, as important I guess maybe not. Maybe you're right. Well, for from my perspective, at least, is that is this scene pivotal enough to for me to get hype for the Avengers that already was around the corner type thing? I I would say for me, no, because you see these same characters again right in the beginning of the Avengers movie.

SPEAKER_01 3:11:34

I would say in the lead up to the next movie or at least to the Avengers movie, is it important? Maybe not, but I'd say in the MCO as a whole, MCU as a whole, I would say it's important only because it's really the first time that the infinity stones are kind of becoming a thing. We can bring it back down to okay, this is where this is coming from and what this means. I mean, maybe, but I see what you're saying. Yeah, yeah, I I I I pick up what you're putting up.

SPEAKER_00 3:12:01

But the hype level definitely is a high for me.

SPEAKER_01 3:12:03

Oh, yeah, that's a big, yeah. It's big because right at this point, anything is kind of like, yes, because we can't, we can't, we still don't believe they're gonna be able to do an Avengers movie at this point. Yeah. So anything that happens, it's kind of hard to not you show Sam Jackson, hey, well, by the way, we know good enough hype. I'm hyped. Let's see it. You know what I mean? Like we're already there, so yeah, I agree with you. The hype is high. So my my score for the post-credit scene is a 10 out of 10. Yeah, 10 out of 10. Yeah, it's good, it's does its job. Whether it might needed to be there or not, it did its job.

SPEAKER_00 3:12:32

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 3:12:32

All right, so deep dives. Your best performance. My best performance, I think, is Tom Hilliston. I think he is amazing in this movie. He turns on that nice little in-between, I'm your brother, we're buddies, to oh no, something's wrong. I didn't have anything to do with that. To I'm evil as hell, and I just want to kill you. And he just does it really, really well. And he has moments in this, like when that you're just he's the unpredictable, scary bad guy, and I like them. Like you're like, you could almost say the right thing to him, and he'll take it wrong just to be mean, you know. And but then you could say the right thing to him and it gets through to him, and he'd be like, Oh, I see what you're saying. Like, he's just crazy enough, you're not quite sure what to think, you know. I I think Tom Hillson was a standout, in my opinion, for the best performance of this for sure.

SPEAKER_00 3:13:28

Yeah, well, I put Anthony Hopkins for me, just because I mean that he is so good at Odin. Um, and I think that his he commands the room whenever he's um on the screen, and I think that's that's really cool. And it really shows that the Marvel was taking this seriously that they were gonna cast someone like this. It wasn't just like a one-off type thing, like we want someone who could do Norse mythology really well. And Anthony Hopkins, he's just a great he's a great legacy actor, and I think that getting him to play their father was perfect casting. So I agree. Yeah, all right. Your most surprising performance.

SPEAKER_01 3:14:05

My most surprising performance is Anthony Hopkins. I'm I'm very surprised how serious he took the role. And when he made choices and really made it his own, I was really into it. Like I said, guys, when he did that in the beginning where he just was this is that look, I'm like, Moa, it's like this is all just him doing this. Like he makes moments in this that makes it work, and that's why I was surprised by his performance. I knew it was gonna be good because it's sorry, Anthony Hopkins. But to be this good, I was I was very I was pleasantly surprised how good it was.

SPEAKER_00 3:14:36

Yeah, all right, so I put for my most surprising performance as Natalie Portman. Here we go. And um I I did that because I think that I going into this film, I wasn't expecting much, and I don't mean that in a bad way. It's just that I didn't I wasn't expecting um her to be that pivotable piv pivotal, but I think for Thor's character arc she was, and I think she put on a great performance as this character. I actually like her more in this than I like her in Star Wars. That was my hot take for her. So that no nothing else for me to say about that one.

SPEAKER_02 3:15:21

All right, weakest performance?

SPEAKER_01 3:15:24

Oh see, I yeah, you Natalie Portman. So it's not her though. Uh I think she's a great actress. It is she's definitely better in this than she is in Star Wars, unfortunately. Um Star Wars is a very badly written movie. Um, for with her roles. I mean, there was there were problems, but it wasn't them that were the problem. And and then it's the same with her. It's this isn't her problem in this. She's just a doughy-eyed scientist in this. And I I really feel like I didn't quite on get I didn't get to see how smart she was, and I didn't get to see uh uh for me a plausible connection between her and Thor. And I just think she was a A-list actor in a C list role, and that's my problem with that part. So I don't think it was so much of a she did anything wrong, I just think what does she have to work with, in my opinion. You and I feel very opposite about her in this movie, which is I understand. I I get where you're coming from too, though. Um and for some reason I'm just not buying it, I just don't buy it. But it goes to her for that reason.

SPEAKER_00 3:16:33

For me, weakest performance, I really didn't have one written down for that because I just thought everyone played the characters how they're supposed to play them. I didn't I didn't see anything that was like staunch to me that was like, oh, that could have been better for me personally. But anyways, um casting wins, there's so many for the casting wins for me. Oh yeah. Um that's why that's why I had a hard time with the weakest performance, to be honest. Um, but Chris Hemsworth and Tom Hiddleston and and hand I put Anthony Hopkins, of course, because I think it was the best performance, but really Chris Hemsworth and Tom Hiddleston, perfect casting.

SPEAKER_01 3:17:07

I'll yeah, I'll have to say across the board, this movie's casted perfectly. If we were to do casting wins, we'd have to list all the guys in the group. We'd have to list Heimdale, we'd have to list the you know, Natalie Portman and her little crew, we'd have to list everybody with SHIELD, we'd have to list Thor and Loki. I mean, it's it's just I don't see a yeah, I'm with you. I don't see one casting flaw at all in this at all, to be honest with you. Yeah. Right across the board. Probably the only time I'll say that about these movies.

SPEAKER_02 3:17:36

Believe it or not.

SPEAKER_00 3:17:37

All right, missed opportunities or wasted potential for you. Um I wasn't expecting anything more on this movie, and I don't think any personally for me was a hard one to even think of. I don't I don't think any characters were done wrong by how they're written.

SPEAKER_01 3:17:53

My wasted opportunities come from stuff that didn't come from the movie. Like a movie of that group of guys. Yeah. That's that's honestly that's the only thing I could think of is why didn't we get more of them, you know? Um yeah, I no, I I can't think of anything in this movie other than other than if we're gonna if this falls under that category is yeah, you had an opportunity to really explain what it meant to hold the hammer, and I don't think they for me it didn't come across that well.

SPEAKER_00 3:18:19

So All right. So you wanted to talk about when it comes to the direction production, the directing style.

SPEAKER_01 3:18:24

Yeah, a couple things. I want to bring up the director because this is a big deal. I think this is where not I'm not saying Marvel doesn't Marvel wasn't looking to hire directors to do their own thing because they did that with the first couple movies as well, but they went to the right person for this kind of movie. Kenneth Brana is the perfect guy to do the Shakespearean stuff in this way. And he's because he's so good, guys. If you haven't seen his Hamlet movie that he's in and directed, it is phenomenal. It's got everybody under the sun at the time in the movie, but it is so good and he's so good in it. He just knows how to direct this kind of stuff. And I and I'm very, very happy to say that this had his flavor on it. When I watch this movie, I'm like, oh, that's a Kenneth Brown movie. And that and it's good to see that the MCU was able to do that and take a swing and let a director do what he was gonna do in his style and let it play out that way. The cinematography is the best yet so far in the NCU. You know, the the camera choices on just from the tilt when they show the welcome to the town sign into the town, where you realize, okay, this is where we're gonna have our earth setting, you know, which is good that it's not in a city because this is we want this to be a low-key situation, or just you know, all the stuff on the rainbow bridge when it shows them running across and you're looking from the angle ups. Like there's certain angles and certain ways they did that. He definitely was showing you there's better ways to look at this movie or at these things, which then I'll go right into the action, it's good. It's not the best of the MCU, but it's good. Um, it's not the best Mulligar action that we've ever got. You know, we get way better later on. This stuff, it's cool. The stuff they do in this is cool, but there's some stuff in Ragnarok that's just freaking awesome. Yeah, you know what I mean? And like, but the CGI, I will say I agree with you. It is early on CGI, not as good um for the MCU, but I will tell you at this point in time, though, I don't know if guys I was tired or what was going on, but when I watched this movie, it was dark. I had my big screen TV with my surround sound on. CGI blew me away. Like, I forgot how good this movie looked. And specifically in certain things that could have looked real bad. Now there's moments where you're like, oof, but it's big scale moments. But the little moments, like just the style of the Rainbow Bridge, is amazing. You know, and I like the Bifrost the way it is now in the MCU, but it still looked cool then. Like they still did a cool job with it then. Like, I yeah, I mean, I think the CGI on this holds up a lot, especially with um the uh ice giants. They look great, they look very good doing it in that dim light and stuff where his eyes are that brown that really sticks out or the reddish that really sticks out. Fantastic. Looks it looks great. Um that's all I really wanted to hit on those because you know, and the only other thing that I will say is the music, it's still just whatever. We're still at a point in the MCU where the music kind of sucks. These theme songs are not really there yet. You know, I don't know if it's just their archive and or what they're doing or who they're hiring, but they just don't really have anything that stands out that makes you go, oh, that scene, you know. Not yet. We'll get there. They have they do get some, but right now it's not happening.

SPEAKER_00 3:21:34

Yeah. So I this is part of the the part of the podcast, the part of the session that I don't um go into too much details unless I really wanted to. Um I I liked everything really. I I had no complaints of anything in here. I do like what you described, the scene cuttings. I liked when you saw Lau Fee, you saw him at an angle and with this right shadow, made him look mysterious. And then when he stands up real quick, it's like you still didn't get his full picture because you have no idea what this guy is really like. I love that they were able to play on to some of that that stuff. Um all right, so I'm gonna move on to my hot take. And this might be something that you may or may not agree with, but I I I wanted to come up with a good, unique hot take, and it took me a while to think about this, and I thought, you know what, how about this? This is less of a Thor movie and more of a low key origin story. You watch this, guys, watch what happens.

unknown 3:22:28

Go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 3:22:29

While the film is framed around Thor learning humility, his arc is actually pretty straightforward. Arrogant goes to humble, it goes to worthy, it's clean, but there's also a real relativity. Um, really I'm sorry, it's simple and fast-tracked, which I definitely did feel in this movie. Meanwhile, Loki goes through far more of a layered transformation, discovering his heritage, grappling with identity, seeking approval from Odin, and ultimately breaking under his weight of rejection and ambition. By the end of the film, Thor kind of has a complete arc for his worthiness, whereas Loki's journey is just beginning. What are your two seconds?

SPEAKER_02 3:23:09

That's a hot take.

SPEAKER_01 3:23:10

That's a hot take. Um you said all the things that I wish I would have said when I was trying to tell you I don't feel like Thor earned his hammer. They did all the right things for Loki and all the wrong things for Thor. So if you truly think that's if you think that's true, then you need to rethink about how you felt about how he got his hammer because you're 100% right. I'm with you. It Loki's story is way more thought-out, emotional, and understanding than Thor's in his own movie.

SPEAKER_03 3:23:44

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 3:23:45

For that reason. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:23:47

Yeah, that that definitely is my overall hot take of of the whole film. I do like all the Thor stuff. And I know I can I can I can agree to that the unworthiness and the worthiness thing is relentless, folks. It's it's complicated. I gotcha. Yeah, it's complicated. But I wasn't like disappointed with Thor in it. I gotcha. So what's your hot take?

SPEAKER_01 3:24:13

My hot take is kind of an MCU one because of this movie. I think I definitely figured out their secret ingredient. You know, I think Feige realized, and I'm not saying that this isn't something that we all didn't know. Folks, I don't want you to think I'm like way behind. I get it. They are putting these big actors like Anthony Hopkins in these movies to give it more prestige, obviously. But if you really think about it, and and the genius of it and continuing to do it forward, is that we're only gonna take these movies as seriously as they make them. And when you put guys like Anthony Hopkins, like Mickey Roar, like Sam Rockwell, or uh from uh Jeff Bridges from Iron Man One, you're putting in some prestigious guys that are giving clout to this before these other guys can do it on their own. Because truthfully, when you look at this movie and the casting of it, you got guys like Edris Elba, which is that's a big deal now, but at the time he wasn't. So now it's a big deal if you get him because yeah, because he's done oh look at his repertoire at this point, you know, because of this. So it's very genius that he continues this on. I mean, later on, we get Tommy Lee Jones, we get Robert Redford, we get Louis Dreyfus, we get we get you know Josh Brolin, you know, we get a lot of people later on that keep going. Um yeah, so that for for me, it's definitely I would just say that the hot take is is simply that we we will have to pay attention to these bigger names and these bigger people as we go forward because I do think that they carry some of these movies at first, you know.

unknown 3:25:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:25:53

All right, or our hot takes, we're done with those.

SPEAKER_00 3:25:55

So we're done with hot takes. All right, let's do our quick fire questions. All right, best scene of the movie for me was Thor trying to lift the hammer.

SPEAKER_01 3:26:02

Hey, yeah, that's great. Mine is very similar. It's the moment of when all the hillbillies and them were trying to lift the hammer. I love it's like a King Arthur scene where the town just gets together to try to lift it. I love that whole setup, and it's really neat to get there with that. It's real funny and make me laugh music-wise, and all that was good. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:26:21

All right, so let's see. Least's best scene. I didn't really have one. Yeah, anytime him and Jane, I just didn't care. Sorry, guys, it just didn't work for me. Someday we're gonna find in one of these retrospectives a good care other than Tony and Pepper, a good character uh couple for you. Maybe. Yeah, there's some. We'll get there. We'll get there. We'll get there. All right. Um, best villain moment, I thought was when Loki betrayed Laufie in the Odin Sleep scene. I thought that is a good demonstration of his trickery, that he did all this stuff. He orchestrated them, he even brought them in to just at the very last minute say, no, no, this is gonna be my my thing now. That was some that was some um um manipulation right there.

SPEAKER_01 3:27:06

Yeah, I think you're right. I think yours is better than mine. Um, but I just I love that scene when he's on the throne and the group of them come to him asking to to like forgive Thor. I just I thought that showed that mix of of that meanness, but niceness and manipulation all at the same time. Um, you're I think you know it's hard to say because there's probably three or four other scenes we can say. That's how good he did in this, in my opinion. Um, but there's that one moment when he does stand up and he's like walking down and talking to them, and this is the first time you see him in his helmet that you that could easily look silly, but it's not silly, you know. I that's epic, and he's so good in that. So yeah, yours is better than mine, I think. I like yours, definitely shows more of him like that. But I just mean I that for some reason that one scene just sticks out to me because it's a little more subtle and it kind of makes it feel creepier, you know. Like yeah, but other than that, like I said, it's hard to pick a bad one of his. It really is.

SPEAKER_00 3:28:03

To be honest with you, it's like all right. Um most punchable face. Mine was Laufy. Yeah, why so? Just he just he just looked like it.

SPEAKER_01 3:28:12

Because he just he just needs a good one.

SPEAKER_00 3:28:14

Yeah, you just just he got it though in the movie.

SPEAKER_01 3:28:16

Thor guy can give him a good punch in the face. Yeah, but I got you though, I didn't do it. So now I want to do it. You know who I wanted to hit in this one real bad. Like Colson just needed a good old sucker. Oh, he was my second choice. Just the way he talked to them when he was taking a look at the show.

SPEAKER_03 3:28:32

I just thought I can't hit him, but yeah, yeah, you know, I agree.

SPEAKER_01 3:28:35

Then even later, when he's I just want to see what happened. Like, Colson, you know what, dude? Sometimes you're a little too smug. You know, it worked in Iron Man because he was more smug than you, but when it's just you being that guy, you need a good old sock to that. Like he was such a jerk to them taking their stuff. Like, what the I I get what was going on, I understand, but I always thought to myself, you know, if all he did was ask a couple more questions, he could have had access to Thor himself. Yeah, but because he's so like okay, funk. Yeah, no, he needed a punch to the face. Sorry, Colson. I love you, but sometimes you just need to be yeah. All right, yeah. What's your one prop you take home? This was hard. This was hard. But I'll tell you, what I want is a replica of Hondale's sword.

SPEAKER_00 3:29:22

That sword is sick. You know, I I thought of like either Loki's staff or Odin staff, honestly, but I thought, oh, those look too big. So I'm thinking, what's a little smaller, though? So I put Jane Foster's notebook. That's a good I like it. It's a great yeah, but that that sword though would be would be would be pretty cool. All right, so uh most underrated moment for you.

SPEAKER_01 3:29:45

Um I I think the ice giant stuff isn't talked about enough in this. I think that people give them a hard time, uh, which is why I'm excited to get into the second one when we do, because that's more of that. Um yeah, I forgot how much I liked it in this one and how much it worked. They are they're very menacing, very mean. And I like that about them.

SPEAKER_00 3:30:07

So yeah, I I agree with that too. I put the the the bar scene between Thor and um Skarsgard there. That was um that was pretty good, and I think that's kind of underrated because I like how they kind of found a way to like a bond to a degree, you know. It's great character development. Yes, yes, most overrated moment for you.

SPEAKER_01 3:30:26

Um yeah, Thor getting his hammer back. So I how can you write that? See, this is just it. You're starting to realize I told you guys I'm relentless. No, I get it, Sammy. I know why you feel I you you do a great job of defending this situation, but I still gotta tell you, yeah. Uh you're saying it for me right here. It's when he gets a hammer back. He's like, what? Well, you just all because you went out and you're gonna put your life on the line. Like, oh, it's something Thored already does. Like, I don't know. I just I felt it just was like, okay, cool. Then if you are gonna do it, at least make it more epic than the movie did it. If you're gonna do it, be epic. But you know why it wasn't epic? Because it didn't feel earned. That's why.

SPEAKER_00 3:31:13

Well, for for me, the reason why I put Thorg in the hammer back, it was because I feel like the film wanted you to think this was his emotional arc at the end, but really the emotional arc should have been the the it felt like you go through this arc of the movie, then you get to him, he finally gets his hammer back. Great, cool. But there's still more of the movie, and there's still even a bigger piece of the emotional arc that they still have to touch. So it's kind of like, are you doing like another little hump right there? It was to me, I'm like, it should have been all wrapped in one for that, for that part. So I get I get your point where if you if he destroyed the the Biofrost with an actual little hammer or something, and then he gets it back because he's trying to save his brother. That would have been something.

SPEAKER_01 3:31:56

Well, I mean, or he could have had the hammer when he was doing the Biofrost spot, but he needed to earn it back differently, is all funniest moment for you. So there's a lot of funny moments in this movie. Um one of my favorites, so maybe Laugh Out Loud, where my daughter was even like, What are you laughing at down there? is when she's like, We need to go get that guy and help him, and she gets in a car and Scarsgard is like, Oh man, and the girl in the back, what's her name? The Darcy. Yeah, Darcy is reloading the taser gun. And she's like, Yep, let's go get him. And it's like, I just I just was like, it's just funny. Like that that made me laugh because they did a very good job at being believable as a streesome there of a group of people that you you're with. You know, that's why I wish their storyline was better because they fit it so well, you know.

SPEAKER_00 3:32:41

Their moments made me laugh a lot. I love when Darcy says, Next time you decide to hit a guy, can you make him not so heavy? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. That's that's funny. That's good. My favorite scene, uh, it's it's kind of a cliche funny moment, but it's when he slams the glass down and he's like, I like this drink more. And he's not used to the customs, they're all they're all like, what the heck? Yeah, that's that's a great.

SPEAKER_01 3:33:04

That's a good fish out of water funny scene. I think if I had to, I had was mine was between that one, the one I said, and then you said as you said that, I have to say this one. When he goes into the pet shop and he's like, I need a horse. And the guy's like, We don't have those. Or then he then he's like, What do you have? And he goes, like dogs and cats, and he's just like, I need one of them big enough to ride. The dude didn't know what to say. He's just like, uh at some point, it's like, what this is New Mexico. This is hilarious. Yeah. Oh, all right. Um, most emotional moment for you. Um, I think him trying to pick up the hammer and he can't. It's there is a that breakdown of him realizing not only is his worthiness gone, but he does feel like you explained earlier in that moment that this I'm grounded ultimately, you know, and he's just like, oh, it's like this is the first time probably in his life he felt powerless. When when especially with the hammer gone. Like, and that to me that was very emotional to him. Like, I yeah, I I I felt that moment for sure.

SPEAKER_00 3:34:07

Yeah. All right. Um, for me, it was Thor trying to save Loki because I for me that was more of a brotherly moment that I know you did wrong, but I still want to save you. Yeah, you know, because you are my brother. Even if you are adopted, you are my brother at the end of the day. And you kind of see that brother dynamic continue on, whereas this kind of a love-hate relationship, but ultimately Thor doesn't want to hurt Loki. Like usually the bad guys, you want to see the good guys demolish them and put them in jail and all that stuff. I think Thor doesn't.

SPEAKER_01 3:34:36

I think he just wants to Would you say that Thor if I threw this out there, could you agree if I say that Thor deciding to try to save the one that's wronged him would have been more worthy of the hammer than just the selflessness of Yes. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 3:34:54

I agree. I do agree. That would be yep. That's because that's like another tier, that's another level to that. It'd be like, okay, that's a kingly decision. That is a kingly decision. That's a Steve Rogers decision. Yes. All right, so more worthy folks, Steve Rogers or multiverse meter. All right. Out of out of a two, is the highest we could do on each one of these your story score? One out of two. I put two. Alright, characters. Oh, that's two out of two. Characters are great. Two out of two for me, too. Action and visuals. I definitely did a one out of two. I did one out of two as well. Emotional stake, emotion mistakes. Yeah, point five out of two. I did two out of two. Alright. Your rewatchability and MCU impact. Um, MCU impact and rewatchability. I I'm gonna go with the 1.5 as well. I did the same thing. Yep. So our scores for that are pretty much even except for the story part. Yep. Alright, so my final score of the film is an 8.5. Yeah. What was yours? Overall, I'm giving this a solid 6 out of 10.

SPEAKER_01 3:36:02

Okay. Sorry guys. Um I gotta I gotta give it that down slope that I had before.

SPEAKER_02 3:36:08

I just couldn't get over it as much as I wanted to.

SPEAKER_00 3:36:12

So that means that the official multiverse um combined total score is a 7.5 out of 10. Does that sound accurate? Yep. Sounds good to me. Good spot. Okay. And we already did a full post-credit scene as a 10 out of 10. Final verdict, uh, one sentence. What is your final review? This this is a big swing by Marvel that paid off. Mm-hmm. Great final moment I put on here. This is probably the most underrated Marvel origin movie that deserves to be recognized for a great origin story than it is. Great. Yeah, both you put those sentences together, we got a great headline.

SPEAKER_01 3:36:51

Yeah. Yep. Couldn't describe it better.

SPEAKER_00 3:36:53

The last part of this is if you would do it differently, what would you have done?

SPEAKER_01 3:36:58

I I think I've pretty much covered a lot of that instead of getting too far into it, but I would have liked to see maybe him on Earth a little longer. Um, in in order to where he can learn some of that humility that we want to see out of him. But that I would have liked to see him defeat Loki without the hammer and earning the hammer back by choosing to save Loki rather than kill him would be the thing that Odin was looking for out of him in that whole moment, anyways. Not so much that he's willing to put his life on the line, not that he's brave and not that he's courageous, but that he understands that difference of, oh, you've done me wrong, but not always doing you wrong back will be the answer.

SPEAKER_03 3:37:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:37:41

And because that was his problem in the beginning, you know, was oh, they did this, we're gonna go do that. It's like, no, maybe we need to just understand what they did it for. Because if Thor would have waited, they'd have found out that Loki did all this and not none of this would ever happen. And I think that him doing this with Loki, we wouldn't get the Loki we get in the future if we didn't see this compassion from Thor at the end. Yeah. Which to me was the most worthiness. And if I'm if I'm gonna say it, the m if I were to say the one thing that makes you worthy with the hammer that in relation to Steve Rogers that they want you to get across is no matter who it is, you're gonna be just to them. And that's something Steve does, and that's something that Thor showed and continues to do later, which to me equals kind of the worthiness of the hammer.

SPEAKER_00 3:38:27

Yeah. So I agree. Um for me, because of how much I like this movie, I there is not I would agree with your sentiments on changing that, but it it wouldn't be as dramatic for me that I would have said differently for my scores. I got you. It's good, it's still good either way to me. I just this isn't one of those movies. I gotcha. For me personally, if I have to nitpick certain movies and stuff like that, this is not one that I was like, oh, I'm itching to say something about what I would have done differently. Because it was satisfying to me. Yeah. So okay.

SPEAKER_04 3:39:00

All right, everyone.

SPEAKER_00 3:39:01

Guys, this is good one. Yeah. Well, that concludes the episode of our fifth episode of the Goodell Multiverse podcast. This is our retrospective breakdown of Thor one. So, what's coming up next is um next week, we're gonna review uh for our branch point breakdown segment, the Daredevil Born Again Season 2, episode five review. Yep. And then our movie for our retrospective segment is gonna be Captain America, the first Avenger. Oh boy, here we go, guys. I am excited. I have some of my notes already pre-ready for this guy because uh he is so good. All right. So um, please like and comment down below on what you thought about our retrospective of Thor one. What are some things you would have changed? Do you agree with me? Do you agree with my brother Ike? What do you think? We really do want to know. We do read your comments, so please do comment below. Share this with a friend and family member and help get the algorithm going for us because we're trying to boost our views here. And with that said, subscribe. Like our social media pages. We're on Facebook. We're on Instagram. We're on TikTok. So follow us there. Listen to the audio version of this podcast. And is there anything else you want to say? Oh just look out for the first episode of Dark Dimension.

SPEAKER_01 3:40:13

We'll probably drop sometime in the next seven to eight days. All right. We'll see how that goes and give me your feedback and if you want more or less or what. That's perfect. Well, thank you guys so much for joining us.

SPEAKER_00 3:40:24

And until next time, we'll see you at the movies.