Ep6 - Captain America: The First Avenger Retrospective with Daredevil BA S2 Ep5 Review

Episode 6 - The Goodell Bros breakdown the recent Marvel news, highlight their thoughts on the Daredevil Born Again Season 2 Episode 5, and then segway into a full breakdown and retrospective view on Captain America: The First Avengers on our March to Doomsday!

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

On every timeline in every universe. There's one thing that we always talk about. Marvel. Welcome to the Goodell Multiverse Podcast. I am one of your hosts, Sam Goodell. I'm Isaiah Goodell. Thank you for joining us on this episode. We're talking about Captain America. Oh yeah. I'm so excited. As you could tell, he's probably my favorite Avenger. Just saying he is my favorite Avenger. So is he your favorite Avenger? I think I think he's my favorite Avenger.

SPEAKER_05 0:32

I'll tell you, uh old. I never liked Captain America. Full disclosure. Never liked him. I was like, what a jerk. Who's this guy? You know, a little pompous, whatever, comic books. But what they've done with the MCU, he quickly became my favorite character in the MCU.

unknown 0:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 0:50

I don't know if he's my favorite Avenger, though. It's a different conversation. Although my favorite character, though, man, what they've done with him is so good.

SPEAKER_01 0:58

Oh, yeah. So good. So good. Well, I'm going to um give you just a quick rundown of our agenda for this episode. This is episode six of the Goodell Multiverse Podcast. This is so fun. We've been having a lot of fun uh learning some new things and editing and marketing is now the next thing and we're gonna get on next. So um if you are listening to this on uh a streaming device of your choice, you know, platform of your choice like Spotify, Apple, Amazon, we do have a video version of the podcast on our um social media page on YouTube, uh, follow us on Instagram, Facebook, and TikTok. That's right. So yes, we're we're trying to get ourselves out there and your support will be greatly appreciated.

SPEAKER_05 1:39

Yeah, look for movie uh trailer reactions and uh throwing out some mini videos of just some thoughts about little news things that we're not gonna cover on here. We'll have a lot of fun stuff out there.

SPEAKER_01 1:51

Oh, yeah, totally. We're we're anticipating your dark dimension episode. That's gonna be fun.

SPEAKER_05 1:55

I took the week to really figure out how I'm gonna do it and do and get and kind of get a list of ones I want to do. And so be looking for that in the next, I don't know, few days or so should be popping up.

SPEAKER_01 2:06

Yeah, all right. So before I run down the agenda, I just wanted to let you guys know if we seem a little sluggish today or anything, we've our family's been going through a little bit of a hard time recently um with a family member that's uh fallen ill, um taking a little bit of a turn. So if anyone out there is a faith-based person, they want to pray for our family, we certainly would appreciate it. And please thank you. Yeah, and thank you so much for joining and uh supporting our little channel. And the agenda for today, we're gonna talk about the news of the week and our multiverse minute. Then we're gonna go into our branch point breakdown of Daredevil Born Again, season two, episode five. We're almost there, folks. It's getting close. Oh, yeah. Um, and then we have our retrospective review of Captain America, the first Avenger. The first Avenger. And a lot of stuff has happened this week, so we're gonna get right into it with the multiverse minute. Thank you for tuning in to the Godell Multiverse podcast, folks. We are in the multiverse minute, maybe 45 minutes of our episode. So if you're just watching this as a clip on YouTube, please check out the full video on YouTube or the full audio on any streaming platform of your choice. Yeah. And so, uh, my brother Ike, why don't you take it away with the first thing on our agenda?

SPEAKER_05 3:27

All right, so we're going to talk about Spider-Man again. So we got Spider-Man has some footage and posters. It's a brand new day footage and posters that they have released at uh I keep wanting to say Comic Con, everybody, but it's but it's the Cinex Cinecon or Cinemacon or how do you say it? Yep, you're right. So yeah, let's talk about these posters. Oh and gosh. What do you think, Sam? On when when you see these posters? Are and are posters a big deal to you? It's that's a good question with this one. I was wondering that when I was thinking about this the other night. Um, I I do personally love a good movie poster, but what settles with you when it comes down to posters? And does it help move the needle? And what do you think about any of the footage that we have?

SPEAKER_01 4:13

Well, I do I do think personally that movie posters are important. I think they do help move the needle a little bit, especially to your casual movie goer that may not be a Marvel fan, but they see a poster of something as they're walking into the theater or as it pops up online when they're looking up, hey, what's playing this weekend we can go see? And that kind of catches people's eye. So I I am a big fan of movie posters. So uh my brother knows this. I usually collect the Marvel movie posters um whenever they come out. And of course, they they release like three or four different versions. So I picked the one that I feel like speaks to me the most is all this embodies the film to me better. I I like the ensemble posters that really has the main cast in it. Um, so we we didn't get those type of posters yet uh from the Spider-Man ones, but I gotta tell you, these ones, I I if you are a fan of the Toby McGuire Spider-Man, especially Spider-Man 2. Yeah, good point. I didn't even think about that to get it. One of these posters looks like oh gosh, like a remix, like a like a um updated version of it with like spitting image of uh Tom Holland's Spider-Man uh in his mask and in his eye, he sees MJ, where I think in Spider-Man 2 it's the same thing. He sees his MJ in the eye. It's just a just a actually it's a great complement to what we know of the Spider-Man movie thus far. Because in Spider-Man 2 of uh Sam Raimi's trilogy, he was going through kind of a change of himself where he was losing some of his abilities and things like that, and trying to figure out the the emotional part of being Spider-Man and balancing that. And from what we see so far of Brand New Day, Peter Parker, uh Tom Holland's Peter Parker is going through the same thing, maybe a little more dramatic, but it's about the same thing.

SPEAKER_05 6:04

So Brand New Day could be the Spider-Man 2 of Tom Holland's, whatever you think about it. I mean, it's he never know. That is a great poster. I do like it. Um I I am personally one when it comes down to posters. I'm not a fan of floating heads. Like it don't get me wrong, you can get a good poster with those, and it's kind of neat. But I like it when they get really creative. I'm more of a fan of the other poster that they have along with this one, which shows him directly like going into combat with who we think is the hand. Yeah. And that's really cool because it's like a segment of the movie that is being highlighted. Um don't get me wrong, I didn't think about how much this new poster looks like the Spider-Man 2 poster. And in a lot of ways, that it's kind of neat. You know, I do like that too. Yeah, I posters sometimes don't mean a lot to me either. I I like, like I said, I like them. A good one's a real good one. Um, but they don't really tell me much about the movie. I don't know if they get me too excited or not excited for a movie, because you can take a real crap movie and have a really sweet poster, you know. So sometimes that's how I take the posters. But hey, any kind of merchandise you can get, especially when it is something that you do like, could this movie's awesome. Getting all the posters, that's a fun thing to do. It's always fun getting like fun little gifts and stuff like that, and there's stuff for the movie theaters to put out there when they're promoting these.

SPEAKER_03 7:27

And yeah.

SPEAKER_05 7:28

Is there anything you want to say about the footage that they talked about? I I don't think that for me, I don't think there's anything too real significant other than I like the fact that I guess Ned is looking for Spider-Man because he's aware that Spider-Man saved his life, you know, not knowing who he is. So that's got to be a very complicated feeling for Peter, knowing that, oh, that's me, because I'm your best friend. And Ned's like almost obsessed with it. And actually, it kind of gives me story beat ideas about if this is a trilogy that's gonna happen. You know, because what if this is their way they're gonna turn Ned into a bad guy eventually? So and I think that'd be kind of neat. But I'll throw it at Sammy because I have a feeling that was on his mind.

SPEAKER_01 8:07

So go ahead, Sam. I'm so glad you mentioned that because in the comics, not the Green Goblin, but the Hobgoblin, one of his uh, I guess you say people that embodied the Hobgoblin, because I think you know, sometimes in the comics, you know, there's someone who takes on the mantle and someone who does this and that. But Ned is actually in the comics the hobgoblin eventually. Right, right. And so I've I personally have speculated if they were gonna do a Spider-Man 4 with Tom Holland and uh going forward that with Ned not remembering Tom Holland, what if you saw one of those cases where um, or Peter Parker, I keep saying Tom Holland, but you know, differentiate Peter III, Peter 2, whatever one it is, um, Peter one. So um I've always speculated myself, if I was going to continue the story and have Ned be a part of it, wouldn't that be interesting to see your best friend become maybe not your greatest villain, but one of one of your villains. I think that's his greatest, so really it could be, yeah, because to be honest, we already got Green Goblin with Willem Dafoe in here, so maybe they don't want to repeat Green Goblin specifically in him, but do Hobgoblin, which is a different character, but basically takes on the same romantic.

SPEAKER_05 9:24

Yeah, because technically Green Goblin was always kind of you know Toby's guy. It just happened to with that storyline of that one. But yeah, I know. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:34

I've always thought I think I think that would be really cool and interesting storytelling, especially for character development for Peter. Um so to me, that's the only thing that I got out of the it really wasn't that consequential of the footage that they showed. And I don't mean that in a bad way. It's just that, you know, when if you're thinking about oh, bigger stakes, if they showed 15 minutes of Peter fighting a group of um the task force that's in New York City, or maybe Department of Damage Control officers, and then you find out who the heck Sadie Sink is in that, I feel like that would have been a little more of a, oh, this is how this movie's gonna progress, or maybe see what he and Bruce Banner are doing for those 15 minutes of footage. Oh, there you go. So I think that, and I I don't mean to say this in a bad way, but I think that this footage was safe footage. It gave the audience something to chew on and something to think about, but nothing revealing enough to say what's actually going on in the movie. So the only thing that my fan feariness was um circling around in my brain was, oh, if Ned's trying to find Spider-Man, he's trying to find him to thank him. But what if it's not thanking him? What if something had happened? Or in the course of this movie, him trying to find out who Spider-Man is to thank him turns into I'm gonna try to find him because whatever happens in this movie is something bad for him. And therefore it turns into the obsession in a negative way, not I want to thank you and give you a hug type thing. It's more of a I want to kill you and I'm gonna find out who you really are type thing. So who knows how they could go with this, but Marvel and Sony, if you're writing this and you know about comic lore and it sounds like you do pretty good job at most of it, then um that's right in that direction.

SPEAKER_05 11:26

Yeah, do you think a question for you then? Do you think let's assume that this new Spider-Man is branching into another trilogy? I think that's kind of the plan, right? I think that's a safe bet. Yeah, it's a safe bet to think that's probably a cool way to go. Do we hint that going bad from the first movie on, or is it something should be a surprise later? I personally think there should be a bill.

SPEAKER_01 11:54

Yeah, I do I do too. I feel like I feel like what what did well in um the Tobey McGuire Spider-Man trilogy was Harry finding out in the second movie that Spider-Man was involved in his father's death, and you got to see him in the second movie figure out that that's Peter Parker, and then figuring out emotionally for the character how am I gonna deal with it, and then you get to the third movie and he's the new goblin, which is a brand new character, but Suey's not the hobgoblin in that trilogy, but it basically is kind of a copycat green goblin type thing. I feel like that brought a little more of an emotional beat for their relationship, and so I would do the similar thing with Ned and Peter. I would have it where, if not in this movie, by the next movie, something has turned where he's not only figuring out who Peter really is or who is this Peter guy, because he doesn't know who Peter Parker is, he just knows from the footage that we know that that's MJ's new neighbor there. Yeah, for however that plays out, we have yet to find out. But I think him figuring out that Peter Parker and Spider-Man are the one and the same, and then whatever events lead up to it, I would have rather, like you said, have more of a build-up to it. Yeah. Because I feel like the emotional part of it would be so that's one of the things that's made Green Goblin in particular Spider-Man's main arch enemy. I know a lot of people would say, oh, Venom is Spider-Man's main arch enemy. Well, Spider-Man has a huge rogues gallery. Everyone who's a bad guy in the Spider-Man universe wants to get rid of Peter. But arguably why they chose Green Goblin in the first trilogy and why he's remained in the the Andrew Garfield films and why he became such a big deal in No Way Home is because Green Goblin is Spider-Man's main adversary.

SPEAKER_05 13:40

Yeah, I've always I'm not I've never read a Spider-Man comic book once in my life, and I've always had the impression that Green Goblin is doing. Yep, yep. So maybe it is because it was the first villain in the movies. You know, but I but I've always known that Venom was a big deal, but I always thought Venom was one of those characters that got developed because the character got big and it needed a direction to go. Yep. You know, and not that Venom's not cool as hell, it's cool, right?

SPEAKER_04 14:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 14:04

But yeah, yeah, no, it's that's good. I'm glad you clarified that.

SPEAKER_01 14:07

That's my interpretation of the Spider-Man comics, is that Green Goblin is his bad guy. Even in all the anime Spider-Man movies and films and the TV shows, Green Goblin has been the biggest affront to him. Um so I'm I I think if they're trying to recreate that for the MCU and not do an exact copycat of what we've seen of him already, this is the way to go. Yeah, yeah, no, good point.

SPEAKER_05 14:34

I got two things to add to that for fun. One of the ways I would do it, I almost wouldn't would love for them, like you know, Ned's looking for for who Spider-Man is because he saved our lives. And with the events of whatever happens in this movie, Ned's opinion of Spider-Man changes. But it'd be I think it'd be fun. So we don't like repeat arcs that we've seen before. It'd be fun if that's kept to Ned's self, though. So maybe by the end of this movie it'd be kind of neat if Peter is able to like I finally get to tell my best friend I'm Spider-Man, not knowing that his opinion of him has changed.

SPEAKER_02 15:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 15:12

So then so then they're friends while Ned now is like, wait a minute, like you're him, and we used to be best friends, and I think that could be it'd be more fun than than Peter knowing he's gotta hide it from him because he hates Spider-Man. It'd be fun if Peter thinks everything's good when it's not, because then an emotional hit later could be better. That I have a real super hot take about that. I'll tell you right now. I think I do. I may be wrong, but anything I've looked up online, maybe if other people feel the same. I doubt it. But I because I've I haven't heard a lot about it. But I truly believe that the chemistry between Toby McGuire and James Franco as friends and turning into this is better than Tom Holland and I can't remember what's his name. Ned.

SPEAKER_01 16:02

Or uh Jacob Burton.

SPEAKER_05 16:06

Thank you. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:06

I might have got the.

SPEAKER_05 16:07

I'm not saying they're not great together as good friends and stuff. I like the other two better. I think they sell it more. I think that's one of the most underrated things about the Toby movies is James Franco's part.

SPEAKER_01 16:20

I I do agree about that. Yeah, I I I have to really, for myself, really watch the the two of them and their interactions and both the um Peter and Ned and Peter and uh Harry to see, but I do I do remember the the Toby McGuire, um Peter and Harry. They were like best buds. It was it was like a brother.

SPEAKER_05 16:43

More real. Yep. You know, and these guys are great. These and like I said, I'm not saying these guys are bad, I mean for these guys too. I just don't feel like we've had the heartwarming moments between them that we did to the others. You know, like Ned and Ned and uh Peter in these movies have been I'd say about 90% comical moments. They get along as friends and they're funny together. And that and that's worked real well. It makes it endearing, right? But not many times is there like a very soft moment between them about life and like what's happening. That's usually that's usually between Peter and MJ, which is fine because that's his the love of his life, and that was what was lacking in the Toby one was their romance wasn't there, which is where to think it was something that was always there, and it didn't feel like it was. When like between Franco and Toby, they found this we can kid with each other, but there's there's a care there that that's when he does find out that Peter's Spider-Man, it's not easy for him to want to kill him, even though he does eventually try to, you know, and it it's he struggles with it because it's like, oh, this is someone that I've really cared about, but it's also my dad talking about. You know, so and and of course it's not just his dad, but it's the crazy side of his dad that he's fighting, you know, so it makes it even harder, you know. So yeah, but that's just my I don't know how I'm glad you feel the same way, but I feel like not a lot of people do feel that way about it.

SPEAKER_01 18:12

So yeah, no, I I completely agree. I will just say, just to put a close to this, that we already found out in No Way Home that Ned has some magical tendencies and uh ties with his ancestries, and Hobgoblin in the comics uses magic more than tech. It's happening, folks. So uh Marvel, it's right there. If you do not bake this cake and serve it, then what are we doing? It'll be one of, and I'll it I'll hold your feet to the fire for this. It'll be one of the most missed opportunities in the Spider-Man universe that you've created for the MCU. And we get to those in the movies when we talk about them.

SPEAKER_05 18:51

Honestly, I I think I think even more evidence towards they're gonna do it is the fact that even they made a joke about it in No Way Hope. Yes. Because everything that's happened to Peter, everything that's happened to the other two Spider-Man, I think is going to happen to Peter. I think that even it's a multiversal thing, I think there is a theme of who you are as a character, it might be a different way of getting there, but you're still gonna get to the same place. So, you know, his Aunt May was their, you know, uh uncle rather than Aunt May, but so on and so forth, right? So I think that Peter needs a a character in his life that does betray him because the other two know what that feels like. And that's something that I think that if there's anything that he hasn't gone through yet, really, is that kind of betrayal. Yep. Yep, if you think about it, when it comes down to a character-wise, the idea of someone that close turning on you, it's gonna happen.

SPEAKER_01 19:51

And that's part of Peter Parker's lure, and this is actually a perfect time. Yeah, because we've always talked about that the homecoming trilogy here is Peter growing up, and now at the end of No Way Home, he is the Spider-Man that we know from the comics. He has gone through that origin. This really is an origin trilogy. Yeah, but it's beautifully done, beautifully, really well done. So now, if we're getting a new trilogy, this is the young adulthood Spider Man, where he's he's seen some things in life, and part of his growing up experience, and now growing into the man he's gonna become of Spider-Man is what happens when a close friend that you thought was your best friend betray you.

SPEAKER_05 20:34

And the drama could be so much better because he has no more net now because he's alone. Yes, there's no more Tony Starks or Aunt May's or Happy's or Friends, or it's you're gonna deal with this on your own. Yep. And that's something that's as a someone turning into an adult.

SPEAKER_01 20:50

Yeah, I think I think that's the shivers thing.

SPEAKER_05 20:52

Honestly, I I'm not even gonna call it misopportunity unless they don't do it. Yeah, but I actually kind of feel like they're that's kind of what they're trying to do. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:59

If if they get to the end of this trilogy, then they have not established Ned as an hobgoblin and a friend betrayal type of a scenario, then yeah, that that I will call it then a miss opportunity. So Sony, Marvel, you got two more films, including this one. Well, three films then, to figure this out. See, we don't need Gene Gray in this movie, we just need Ned. Exactly. We got X-Men Comic Guest. All right, well, ladies and gentlemen, let us know what your thoughts are on this topic. Uh, what was your favorite poster from the Spider-Man brand new day review at the Cinema Cinecon, Cinemacon, that, the Cinnabon, and let us know what you thought of the footage. It's uh from my understanding, has is the footage released? I don't know.

SPEAKER_05 21:43

I know there's a descriptors that like a lot of podcasters are doing it. Yeah. John Campy and them do a real good job of breaking it down, but I don't think they reused the footage. I don't think it's been released yet, no.

SPEAKER_01 21:54

All right. Well, when that eventually does, which it does soon. If if it doesn't, then we're definitely gonna see the movie anyways. And that's coming Out in just like three months. So stay tuned, folks. Comment down below. Let us know what you thought. And now we're on to our next news topic. So, Marvel layoffs from Disney. Now I'm gonna read to you about this because I want to make sure I get all the facts right on this, and then you're gonna hear my brothers and I reaction to this and what our two cents are on it. Alright, so this is I'm reading to you from screencrush.com. Disney lays off nearly the entire visual department team at Marvel Studios. Uh let's see. A month into the new Disney CEO, Josh Demar Demaro, Demaro's tenure, he announced in a memo to the company earlier this week that around 1,000 jobs would be eliminated. Among the divisions hit particularly hard by the cuts is a key group within Marvel Studios, the Visual Department team, which is involved in the design of each Marvel film and TV production, and is particularly known for their ingenious translat translations of Marvel's signature comic book costumes into live action that actual human beings can wear. According to Forbes, Disney's layoffs hit Marvel hard with the company losing staff from both New York and Burbank across most areas of the organization, including film and TV production, as well as comics, franchise, finance, and legal. That includes the nearly entire Academy Award-winning visual uh department team at Marvel Studios. Among those affected, uh, let's see, there was a concept artist that that sent a tweet out that I actually showed this to my brother earlier saying the irony of having one-on-one HR layout meeting in the conference room where my Loki mural is on it. If that doesn't like stick a knife right into you, folks, I don't know what does, to be honest. So that's all I'm gonna read of this at this time. Um they it's quoted it saying that um there is now just a skeleton crew of the full-time production staff remaining in place to coordinate the hiring of resources on a per project basis now. I will say one last thing that the um CEO of Disney has uh stated that the one of the reasons is to slim down all their uh studios that they're working on, all the departments that they have within Disney, um, and that they're saying they are not doing as many projects as they had been for the past couple years. So that is one of the reasons for the layoffs. So, what are your initial reactions and thoughts about this?

SPEAKER_05 24:41

Well, I got a couple different feelings about this. Um I'm gonna from a business end, I understand what's happening. It's we're we've made a lot of products. They they have found that their TV section for the Marvel itself has been not doing so well when it comes down to the way they've they wanted to be received. And they've already talked about how that's gonna get cut back, and there's gonna be less of them. And we're not gonna be doing six movies a year if they want whatever, it's some crazy number that they had discussed before. Um, so yeah, if you don't have the need for that department to be as prevalent, then that's fine. Now, this is a Disney, uh this is this is just from Marvel Studios, correct? It's not it's it's company wide. Uh like yeah, being company wide, I think, is more concerning than anything else, in my opinion. If it was just Marvel's side of it, I would see that okay, we're cutting down, so that's what we're doing. But being company wide, you're talking about Disney makes a lot of stuff, guys. Like it's beyond you know, Marvel movies at this point when it comes down to special effects. Disney movies, I would say not. The majority of Disney movies kind of rely on some type of special effects, if and then if not animation, right? Um, at least anything that's big when it comes down to uh big budget or making any kind of significant box office is usually special effects things. With that said, maybe that they're cutting down on all of that, which is kind of a good thing. I mean, Disney kind of already owns the world as it is. Um and I think that you know, cutting back in an area where you're not going to be using a lot more is a great way to find some of that extra money. Um, I think that the other side of it that's a little more just like a personal feeling about it, is you're you are one of the biggest companies in the world that runs a lot of things when it comes down to resorts and TV shows and television and movies and games, and I mean I got we can go on and on about the products Disney has, and to hear of any kind of layoffs just to save a few bucks here and there kind of is it's a little distasteful, I feel. You know, I get it. You know, why have the redundancy? I'm that's why it's a hard argument to have. But from someone like me who, you know, I'm three paychecks away from you know being in trouble, kind of thing, you know. I don't know what it's like to get a guaranteed three, you know, 32 million dollars on just my subscription plans, you know, no matter what year, whether I put crap out or not. You know, and so when I hear that kind of stuff, it kind of, yeah, it sucks to see people lose their jobs. The good thing is these guys are excellent at what they do, they'll find work. There's other studios still, they might get rehired for projects, and then, you know, because I think that's kind of what they're gonna do is start outsourcing some of these things. Because the special effects isn't gonna go away. You know, they're still gonna need it. So they're gonna have to either hire out or the skeleton crew will do the best they can. We don't want to see the skeleton crew not be able to do the special effects because there's too much, so they will have to source some of it out. So we'll get to maybe see different kinds of special effects that's going on out there. Different groups and studios are making them and they look a little different. It's nice. So I think there's a lot of good and bad in this. I understand it. It feels a little distasteful. I feel bad for the people that lost their jobs. I know that they were compensated pretty good, though. So it's not, I feel like they're going to find work as well because they've worked in you know, with a company that's made what they've made, and you can see their work on, you know, they got a good resume for where they're coming from. And but yeah, I would feel a little upset if I'm sitting in a meeting and the guy firing me has my painting behind him. Like, really? You're firing me for the thing that you got hanging in your office. How? It's like, yeah, it's a little, you know, it's in, you know, yeah, and I just saving money, it's like, why don't we just not spend as much money then? You know, because I gotta be honest, one of the things I love the movie industry, guys. I love movies. I'd hate Hollywood though, and the way it's run. Or I mean it's because it's not run, it's kind of a wild west. I I there's a lot of money being exchanged, and I get it. There are things that cost money. I know that. I'm not an idiot, but sometimes you're kind of like, that's how much this person's getting for that. Holy moly, you know, there's a lot of money involved here. And when you're talking about someone's lives, you spend your life working hard to do this kind of work, which to me arguably is some of the most important stuff. If your special effects is off, if your music is off, your lights off, your sound is off, your stages don't look good, the makeup looks bad, those all those things have a very key little moment that make what you're making come to life. So to take one of them and feel like we can just do without this for a while, yeah, it it kind of feels a little underhanded. You know, so Disney, could you really afford to keep them? Yeah, what's the problem here? You know, I don't know. That's kind of how I feel. But that's also just my personal feeling. As a company, though, if I was running a company that was worried about my money and where it's going and every little dime dime of it, then yeah, if you don't need them, you don't need them. And that's kind of, you know, so it's mixed feelings, but it's also something I try not to bother myself with because you're talking the kind of money I'll never see in 10 years. So how do you feel about it, Sam?

SPEAKER_01 30:09

Well, I do have a couple thoughts about this myself that and I have a hot take for this too, um, in particular. So I it's worth mentioning that the new Disney CEO had recently, I'm not sure how recent that it was, but it was since he started his tenure. Um, he had a discussion about AI. And he made the comment that we are not gonna make films using AI to replace people, but we'll use our our creative teams will use it as a tool, which is the typical sentiment that you're hearing in Hollywood now that there is a whole reason behind some of the strikes that happened recently and things like that was they wanted to make sure to preserve filmmaking as we know it, and it's not taken over in any department by greedy companies that wanted just AI to do it where a human normally would have done it. So I I get it, and that sounds like that type of sentiment. My one of my worries is I wonder if they're they're saying one thing and they're gonna try it out secretly in another way. So I don't I don't say that to say they are gonna use rely heavily on AI to do some of these special effects. I do believe in when he says that they're gonna use it as a tool, but I wonder if using it as a tool means that it does take away jobs in that what would take three or four people to edit a certain scene will now only take one or two people. And it just it trickles down from there. And the another thing I'll I'll say while we're chewing on this is that it is true that they have been deciding to roll back some of their films they're doing, like the the release schedule. I know they've made a decision. Uh Kevin Feige has spoken openly about this, about the the TV side of things. He doesn't want to feel like homework anymore. So therefore, after Vision Quest, uh moving forward, we're not gonna have to rely on the TV shows as much to get what's going on in the films. Hopefully that does remain true because he said this before, it backtracked, and now we're doing it again. So I feel though they've learned their lesson enough that they're gonna try doing that. But and it does go um there is some proof behind some of this when they've tried to backtrack it. For instance, in 2024, we've only had one MCU film that was Deadpool and Wolverine. And in um 2026 that we're in right now, we're only having one MCU film made by Disney. So not including Spider-Man, that's its own separate thing, but um it's Avengers Doomsday. Then next year in 2027, we only have Avengers Secret Wars. So it for that, you have a little bit of um proof there to back up your statement. However, I will note that we have pending dates for May 5th, 2028, July 28th, 2028, and December 15th, 2028. And then in 2029, we have May 4th, 2029, July 13th, 2029, so far confirmed as slots that they've placed in their calendar for Marvel Studios films. So are you really dialing it back? Or was this a temporary soft pause and then you're just gonna keep keep on going? And if that's the case, and these dates do stick, because they're subject to change, they can easily fill that with another Disney property like a Pixar movie or Disney animation or what have you. But if these do stick, how much have you actually then scaled back? That's just one part of that I would say. Um my hot take is this isn't gonna last. I think that you either are gonna get, I wouldn't say you're gonna get a rider strike type of a situation, you may get some ruffle of feathers when it comes to um that aspect of the movie making business, of course, because that's a big deal when you're like the biggest company is laying off almost an entire division of one of the most successful franchises in the film industry and in the world. You are bound to get some pushback from not only writers, but directors and artists, you know, actors, things like that. You're gonna hear it. So it this isn't I found it funny that they released this almost like in the middle of the night as a memo, right before their Disney presentation the next day, because I feel like that was their way of we're gonna get it out there kind of like the Epstein Files thing. We're gonna get it out there, that memo, and we're not just gonna talk about it, we're gonna cover it up with some other newsworthy thing. Yeah. So that I mean, that's just the politics of it. But, anyways, um, I don't predict this is gonna last. I think that they're gonna backtrack on this and they're gonna do kind of like a growing pains like they have done since uh Infinity War. I'm sorry, the Infinity Saga was over, and they were like, Oh, more Disney Plus shows, we're gonna prioritize that. Oh, we're gonna do this, oh, the movies are gonna be this way, we're gonna jump on to this. And then they realized this was a mistake, quality and quantity, you can't swit swap them around and think it's gonna work. And I have a feeling they're gonna get the same thing again, just in a different department. And so maybe we'll get better quality storytelling of the films because they've learned that lesson, but we'll see how heavy they're gonna do on the visual effects and what's that gonna affect the look of the MCU moving forward and see if they're gonna make another change. I don't think it's gonna last. That's just my hot take. Maybe I'm proven wrong, but that's my two cents about it.

SPEAKER_05 35:40

Are the dates you mentioned, are those specifically Marvel films?

SPEAKER_01 35:45

Yep. Yep. They are Disney put them on the calendar for specific Marvel studio films, theatrical releases. And it's theatrical releases. Yeah, no, no idea exactly what they are.

SPEAKER_05 35:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:57

It's so early on.

SPEAKER_05 35:58

Because part of me was like those could be TV shows, but if it's specifically theatrical releases, then that that is a lot. Yeah, you know, it's hard to say. Yeah, I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 36:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:09

I mean, it makes a good point. If you look back at phase one, phase two, and phase three, you were able to see in Marvel where they were able to do a slow progression from two films a year to three films a year, and it didn't change the quality, it didn't it increased the quantity without making it oversaturated for the market. They were spaced out properly, there were different flavors of films. You had a Guardians, and then you had a Captain America the same year, you know, things like that. So they could do it. And I'm not saying that they should go the four films a year or onward, but if their idea was to progress in that state, I feel like they could do it. I don't know if it would be as successful. I kind of think they should stick to the formula they already have now that was working um before they tried to experiment with the Disney Plus side of things and uh more more more type thing. Um so last year, 2025, we had three films. Um, they didn't do as high, but that's because Marvel got into a little bit of a low. And the one film really left a bad taste in everyone's mouth. And unfortunately, Marvel, when you make one film and you're like, it's okay this one isn't as good because the next two are great, you've already put that taste in people's mouths where do we want to even see your next film? And that's why I think suffered Thunderbolts and Fantastic Four and the box office mostly, because those are great films. And Captain America did make uh Brave New World did make more money than those other two, but it was such a poor quality of a movie and not what people were expecting that you now have put a damper on your future projects. Thankfully, though, I will say Thunderbolts and Fantastic Four were really good films, and it really makes us anticipate Doomsday even better, because had those been failures too, we would have been looking at each other and having a different opinion on Doomsday. But I digress on that part.

SPEAKER_05 38:05

There's more wrong with why those didn't work than that, but you are right, the one didn't help being bad. The more you stay good, the more confident people are to watch your movies. And whether you know it like it or not, the general public will go see something that the fans of that thing are speaking a lot about. They might not the general public might not care if the next movie's good or bad, and like like uh like us Marvel nerds would. But they do hear us, Marvel nerds, and say, hey, look, the Marvel guys are saying this is good, let's go see it. You know, and just like any action movie, you know, or any kind any horror movie. Oh, look, the the guys that like horror movies are saying this is the best thing they've ever seen. Let's go see it. You know, then that's where you get your people that usually don't watch horror movies going and watching a horror movie. You'd never think they would because everyone's raving about it. And the ones raving about it are the true real fans. So you you need to you need to think of catering to both, right? You got to make it for the general audience, but you also gotta make the nerds, the ones that are gonna watch these no matter what you do right now, gotta like it too. Because when you start losing those guys, that's when the your average Joe is gonna be like, look, my buddy loves Marvel. And he says not to waste your time with the new one. So we're not gonna, because I don't care so much about Marvel, but I go if he's excited.

unknown 39:23

Yep.

SPEAKER_05 39:24

And if that if and if Deadpool Wolverine didn't prove that to you all, then I don't know what what else can.

SPEAKER_04 39:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 39:29

Because everyone went and watched that because everybody was excited. All the nerds were like, Yes, we want this. No one on n your average person out there didn't really know what big a deal that was. They just went and watched a really fun movie. And then it was good, and it just got the legs and did what it did. But if it wasn't for us nerds hyping that up, it wouldn't have mattered. You know what and I agree. I think that that's that's a lot to do with it. So yeah, you get your quality's gotta stay there, guys. Or and when you do this kind of stuff, Disney's known for this, and this is some of the things I have an issue with Disney itself. They make a lot of knee-jerk reactions to something. And and I'm not saying something caused this to happen, but it's like someone had this cool idea that oh, it's just how we'll save this. We got some idea where we need another two extra billion dollars, so let's start getting rid of this part of this company. Not thinking ahead that, well, wait a minute, we still want to do three movies next year. So does that mean we're gonna overwork the guys we got and hire out? Well, are you saving money at that point? I don't know. It's a good point, Sam.

SPEAKER_01 40:32

Yeah. All right. Well, the question is for you guys. Um, the um Marvel layoffs just happened, and so was it was it happened for the industry? What does it mean for Marvel Studios? What do you guys think? Um, are you in favor of this? Are you not in favor of this? Jump down in the comment section below. Let us know your thoughts. All right, so the last topic of our multiverse minute news section. Ike, why don't you start us off?

SPEAKER_05 40:57

Yes, so it looks like people at Cinemacon, I always do that, guys. I apologize. As Cinemacon got to see an exclusive Avengers Doomsday trailer. Cinemacon attendees got to experience an exclusive first look at the Avengers Doomsday trailer hosted by Robert Downey Jr. and Chris Evans, Avengers versus X-Men versus Doom. So that's what happened. And I'm thought maybe what we'll do is we both have read uh and listened to a few people talk about the breakdown of it. We'll just go through like point by point, go back and forth on what we think of that point. Maybe give a little overall thing at the end of it. We'll try not to make this too long, but you know, this is a really big one. So this is one that's this is some of the reason why we're doing this podcast is March into Doomsday. So this is that big movie, guys, that we can't wait to get to and and really enjoy and have a good time with. So why don't you start off, Sammy? What do you think? What was the first thing that you remember? I'm trying to think what the first thing they said they saw in the trailer was.

SPEAKER_01 42:00

So the first thing that I'll say about it so far is that we've heard a couple of different conflicting reports of exactly what happened. Some minor little details that um one um attendee would say, and then another one would say something that's similar but a little different.

SPEAKER_05 42:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:18

And so we're not, we never went, and so we have no idea. And most of the attendees, they're just trying to do this from memory because they're weren't allowed to record it with their phones. They actually were, from my understanding, escorting people who were pulling their phones out during it. Wow. So they're making sure this trailer stays airtight in that arena, whatever they were doing. Yeah. So kind of bummed they didn't release it right afterwards online, so the whole world can just see it, and we don't have to guess was this person in it, was this person not in it, did this person lift up this or this person lift up this, things like that. Yeah, and you know we uh mean say that in a moment. But from my understanding of the trailer, um, Robert Arn Jr.'s Doctor Doom is heavily involved in it.

SPEAKER_05 43:05

Yep, yep.

SPEAKER_01 43:06

You do get your first look at Doctor Doom um in all of his glory.

SPEAKER_05 43:12

Um I'm not mistaken, it starts out with hearing him talk too, right? Like he's Doom is narrating a lot, or at least the beginning part of this trailer that we assume we've heard. Yep. And you get to hear his Lavvarian accent, which they say they which all of them have said is that's been a lot of the stuff we'll say, guys. We'll tell you when we think it's something that's different, but this was something that we heard from everybody. Then you get his Lavvarian accent, you do get a good shot of him kneeling down. Um, that's where some of the things get conflicting. Some say that his mask is off, and you get a reveal of his face right in the beginning, and some say the mask is on. I feel like the mask is probably on. I feel like that's something they you know, but yeah. So, what do you think of this? I mean, I I can't wait to hear his voice personally.

SPEAKER_01 43:53

I can't wait either. From everyone that has um the everyone agrees that if you did not know. Robert Downey Jr. was Dr. Doom. You would not have guessed it from his voice. That's how good a voice acting he did for developing a European uh accent. Yeah. We're not, I'm not specifically sure because we haven't heard it yet, like where it sounds like he derived this accent from, but it's very distinguishable. And so that's that's cool that RDJ is committed to the role of Victor Von Doom and things like that. So um, even though this is probably gonna be his one out of two movie gig for this, because that's what it seems like they're gonna be doing, uh, he's giving it his awe and his comeback here as an actor in the studio.

SPEAKER_05 44:38

So yeah, and the voice thing's a big deal because you often hear when there's castings of big characters, you know, or or something's very anticipated in other movies, and you get those little sit snippets of oh, what do they sound like? You know, I remember the first time they heard, you know, Heath Ledger talking as a Joker, or or even Tom Hardy as Bane. And that one kind of got a lot of crap, which is funny because it's fantastic. Yeah. I mean, I don't know why that always got a lot of crap, but like, and Heath with Joker was great, and we're getting a lot of similar reactions from people that I've been reading and listening to um saying that it's unbelievably good. It's something that at least the voice so far for them is not, you know, showing any signs of uh-oh, this character could be weird. You know, it sounds like it's very serious and he's doing that he's and that's Robert Down Jr., man, he's good. He I've no doubt in his acting capability of him playing this part. My concern has always been what Doom's deal is, you know, where he's from and why, what what it means moving forward. But you know, if if we're gonna take it just for this movie so far, yeah, I'm like I can't wait to hear his voice and yeah, bring it to us, guys. We want to hear it.

SPEAKER_01 45:53

Yeah, yeah, I I I agree. I think um I'm trying to remember specifics on like the trailer, how it started and when it went, but I'm just gonna go through what I do remember or some of the highlights of it. What depending on what order they're in, we won't know um as just us average schmucks until it's released onto uh YouTube. So please, Marvel, do us a favor, just release it. Uh you got it done. It sounds amazing. No matter who you hear it from, everyone is blown, like mine is blown. We've even heard some insider reports of people who have seen like the first cut of the film and they're comparing it to Infinity War level like excitement, or that it's even better than Infinity War, which I gotta tell you, that's a pretty big no that's a pretty big uh deal. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 46:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:42

Yeah. So from what I gather people have been saying is that it starts off with Xavier and a new shot of him in the X-Mansion looking out the window and seeing an incursion happening in front of his eyes. That's where you see the X-Men fighting the Avengers, and Doom is in the midst of it. But it's it's a little unclear if if Doom's part of the Avengers, if he just tagged along with them, if he's his own thing, but it definitely is. Doom is kicking some butt, from my understanding. Like there is there is definitely some sort of war going on. And um what I found those interesting is if you remember all the teasers that came out and in front of Avatar, because like ever avatar 3, Fire and Ash, um, every weekend, um, or every week, I should say, uh, they put forth a new teaser of Doomsday. So that's when you got the um the Chris Hemtworth Thor teaser, you got uh Chris Evans confirmed to come back, you got the X-Men teaser, and then you got the Fantastic Four Meaning of Wakondons teaser and stuff like that. So that last one right there, um, it gets expanded upon in this trailer, and it's showing that the desert that they're walking uh is not actually a desert, right? But it's in fact, probably Namor doing this because he does have water manipulation abilities in the comics. Um, it's it's actually they're going to Atlantis or what's it actually called Talokon. Yeah. Like right, they're splitting the water open Moses style from the Bible. Like, that's some pretty cool impressive.

SPEAKER_05 48:19

Yeah, it's really the the ocean floor is what they're standing on. Yeah, it's kind of interesting.

SPEAKER_01 48:23

That that's oh, that just sounds so cool and makes me think, oh, I can't wait to see this scene. Um your predictions for CinemaCon for this panel was that you we would see a trailer.

SPEAKER_05 48:34

Yeah, for sure, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 48:36

And that you were very um, how do I say, uh kind of low on your expectations. You were like, I'm just expecting one thing, or I just was shooting for the stars, and I'm like, oh, you're gonna see a trailer, you're gonna see cast walk out on stage, you're gonna hear new characters confirmed. Um, and of those things, technically you did get cast walk out on stage, but yeah, it's not what I was trying to um invoke. I was thinking, oh, new cast members make your grand appearance. But they so in in a little bit of that, you did see Robert Downing Jr., Chris Evans come out, introduce the trailer, talk about it, have this little um Civil War rivalry still going on, which is kind of cool. Um, and then the trailer did confirm a new cast member in um Ant-Man's daughter, Jesse Lang. That's right. She she is in the trailer, and then later on, the actress went onto her Instagram and confirmed with a tiny little chair that she is in fact in the movie. So there was a new cast announcement. It was just very subtle and like Ant-Man, very small, and you could have missed it.

SPEAKER_05 49:40

So yeah, and that proves to me that Chairwatch was just a beginning of this is what's gonna be in this movie. And clearly there's going to be surprises. I think we said it, I even said it to you today, that just because all the X-Men aren't listed at Chairwatch and they're still denying being a, you know, I I feel like they've gone to everybody to get as many as they possibly could. And I don't know what's going on in their lives and their in their jobs and whether they want to do them or not. But a couple of them have said that they definitely would come back and they're not, you know, confirmed to be casted yet. But I'm telling you, folks, I mean if I had to predict we're gonna get into this movie, we're probably gonna see as many of them as they possibly could have got. I wouldn't I would be I would be surprised if we don't get the entire cast back from the from the old expat. Yeah, with that said, one of the things they talked about was I was kind of surprised to hear this trailer had a lot of Thor heavy stuff going on.

SPEAKER_01 50:44

Oh, yeah, so it makes it sound like, at least by this trailer, is that Thor is your central character in the film.

SPEAKER_05 50:51

Or at least, at least in the trailer for sure, right? I mean, we haven't seen trades, we don't know how that feels yet, but you're right. It's and it seems to be, I guess they described scenes of him rallying people together in Avengers Tower, which is uh a group of them, which is a lot of people. I guess it's the Thunderbolts of Fantastic Four and a bunch, and he's kind of giving them his speech about how he's seen people get killed by lesser villains that he wasn't as afraid of as doom. So he's he's begging people to put their differences aside and let's rally together because this guy's this guy's coming, you know, this guy's hardcore. And then they describe a super epic shot of Thor charging up as charging up a Stormbreaker Stormbreaker, thank you, and jumping in the air with electric and coming down at Doom. And uh John Campia says that all Doom did was put two fingers up and stop Stormbreaker.

SPEAKER_01 51:46

Like yeah, just to demonstrate how powerful he is, which is they're gonna need honestly. That was one of my thoughts about this film going into it, is that they didn't do any lead up to Doom, whereas at least they were preparing for the Kang Dynasty when that was the title and that was the direction they were going in. And I love how they tried to do this little thing of, oh no, we're pivoting away from that. We actually had this plan all along. Be like, I don't think it did, but whatever, you're you're doing it. But uh regardless, they they're definitely gonna have to, because Thanos was kind of like a slow build, and you got to see from the very uh beginning of the post-credit scene of the first Avengers film, he is out there and he definitely wants to challenge the Avengers, and then you just see it build up in little teases here or there, uh Guardians of Galaxy cameo here, and uh post-credit scenes here, the fine, I'll do it myself, you know, all that stuff. And um, you get to see it build up to that, and the anticipation just kept growing in each phase. They weren't able to do that with Doctor Doom because of this last minute change. And I'm sorry, it kind of was last minute, or at least to the audience, it was last minute. So you didn't if you didn't intend to this Marvel to be that way, you kind of fumbled the ball on that. But regardless, this is what we got, and so you're gonna need to show to the audience, to the Marvel fans, to everyone, that Doctor Doom is gonna be that level of a threat. And I was trying to pull it up here real quick because I wanted to make sure I got the wording right. But I I've heard a number of people say this exact same dialogue of Thorpe gives when he's trying to trying to rally everyone together. He says something to the degree, and forgive me because I I didn't hear it, um, that uh he says, I have fought besides beside heroes greater than you who have fallen to face threats that pale in comparison to this threat. Yeah. Something to that degree. I know they didn't use the word comparison. They said it in the Thor Viking as Guardian type of way, but whenever you do hear that specific dialogue, which was genius dialogue, whoever wrote that. That was amazing. And I wish I had the direct quote in front of me. But when the actual trail does come out, ladies and gentlemen, we'll do a reaction for you. So for sure. Get to see it, and we get to definitely relive it every single second. Um, that did when I did hear those were his words, send kind of a chill down my spine, thinking, oh, they're making Thor, who arguably is one of the strongest Avengers out there, um uh recognize that even because he quivered at Thanos. So if he thinks that Thanos is lower of a threat than Doom, it makes me wonder one what did he see to make this happen? When did this dialogue take place? This could be at the very end, just as a battle cry type thing, or rattling cry, we don't know. But uh it's just so much happening.

SPEAKER_05 54:37

Yeah, it seems seems like Thor knows something, so we're gonna be seeing what that means, you know, and where that's coming from. Yeah, yeah. But he's never mentioned Doom, so we're gonna have to be brought in on whatever that is, you know. Uh yeah, that's that's exciting.

SPEAKER_03 54:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 54:53

Yeah, it's exciting to know that that is a threat. You know, I just I kind of sometimes I worry about power levels in the MCU. You know, it's like we don't want to be too powerful to leave out our small characters, but we don't want to be not powerful enough to not make sense on being a threat. So sometimes it's like meh meh, the rules here and there, but which which is fine as long as it's not really weird, you know. Um, I think that'll work out good. I think it sounds great with that in mind, you know. And uh one of the other things I heard that was sounds really exciting is I guess there's a quite a quite a long epic fight scene between Channing Tatum's gambit and Sean Chi.

SPEAKER_01 55:34

Yes, yeah, that that sounds that sounds cool, whatever they show, because I I mean I go we can only imagine, but of and it's making it sound awesome, yeah. Yeah, and it's not like we shouldn't be surprised at that, but because we know they're both in the film and everything, but it's when you actually hear that there's a description of that out there, and that's what people saw, then yeah, then it gets like all the X-Men and Avengers are actually coming together, technically. So that's that's kind of cool.

SPEAKER_05 55:59

Um I remember John Campia saying there's lots of shots of of um like Xavier and Magneto. He says there's lots of shots of of uh Cyclops. Nothing in particular stands out other than you seeing them. I'm sure this trailer's got a lot of moments that cut, cut, cut, cut, cut real quick, you know, and there's probably things that they're even forgetting to say, you know, truthfully. Um that gambit thing just reminds me that I I remember when we watched Wolverine, Deadpool Wolverine. And at the end, when you see Gambit doing his thing, you know, uh the first thing I thought is, wow, what a missed opportunity that I had back in the day of making him gambit. Because how awesome. And I and I I actually when that movie was done, I kind of was sad thinking that's one of those times where they threw a fun cameo in that I'm just like, man, that's too bad. They they I wish they'd do that again. Yeah, and of course, thank God, here we are, and I guess he's in it and he's doing it again, and it's gonna be awesome. Yeah, so that's cool. And of course, we haven't seen this yet, so it might not be as awesome, but man, everybody that I've heard, they sound ecstatic about what it is.

SPEAKER_01 57:03

Totally. It's it sounds cool. The um uh the another thing that point that um stuck out to me, because that's one of the characters I've been most anticipating to see, is you actually get to see Mystique transform trailer and transforms into Yelena Bolova and see Yelena fighting Yelena, and that just sounds so cool.

SPEAKER_05 57:23

And Mystique's in her like a white, like the a new haircut with the white costume, like the old school. I mean, wow, yeah, guys, that sounds so good.

SPEAKER_01 57:31

I will have to say, and I'm I mean this with full respect, of course, but when I saw Chairwatch and Rebecca Romain's name came up, my immediate thought was, oh my gosh, we're getting blue boobs again. And I say that as like a term of endearment because really the Brian Singer and his team there, they kind of reinvented how Mystique looked for the films. Yeah, uh such a unique it made her. I'm sorry to anyone who was a fan of hers in the comics and thought that she was just popular there. She is good in the comics, but it just heightened her profile for sure. And that that look always is like burned in my brain of just the stilled image of what Mystique looked like in X-Men One. And so part of me was anticipating to actually see that again. But I get it, they want to do the comic accurate outfits, and um it's Disney, so they might not be that edgy to do uh the supermodel, completely naked, blue skin, scaly skin type look. But from my understanding, she does still have those scales on her face. It's just they've given her the classic white outfit that she's known for.

SPEAKER_05 58:35

Yeah, I think that's just them kind of doing this whole work committing to the old costumes. Like and and I think that's smart, you know, really. I mean, she what Rebecca did with it originally is I mean, if she hadn't done what she did, we would have never got the Jennifer Lawrence version, which no matter what rumors you hear about, whether she liked playing that part or not, there was a great part that she played, and she played a very big part in several of the movies, and and some of the best of them, too, you know. So, like it was something I don't know if that character would have been that prominent if they didn't make her that prominent in the 2000s, like that. Oh, yes.

SPEAKER_01 59:09

She definitely was a standout I know this film, and she her role kept getting bigger. Yeah, say what they did to her in X-Men 3, but we'll get there when we get to that retrospective, ladies and gentlemen. We will get there. Um, but it's just so cool to see her back in the outfit. And I do know from what she has said on um her um press tours, is that she was excited to get back in the chair. She did say she spent a long time in hair and makeup and doing that again. And it's she said it was reminiscent of the old days. So we we definitely are gonna get this comic actor outfit, but yeah, who knows what else we could get. Maybe that could be its own skin for all we know. It's just you we never know what we're gonna see, but it's just it sounds really cool.

SPEAKER_05 59:53

Makes me wonder what Alan Cummings is gonna look like as a nightcrawler. Man, it's just crossing mind just now. I'm like, wait a minute, because now if you think about those costumes, because this costume and the old ones are good, you know, for him, but like if they're gonna do this like this, I mean he could be awesome, right? Like, yeah, and I'm actually surprised we didn't see any of a shot of him. And maybe there's a shot of him, and we just didn't notice it. I'm sure once this trailer drops, there's gonna be like tons of breakdowns out there, and we're gonna be one of them that talks about every second that we see.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:22

Oh, yes, yeah, for sure. Yeah, yeah, we got Mystique back, Nightcrawler, and Beast. We got all the blue people back, and it's gonna be so cool to see them on screen together again, and just the classic ones. I know that Hank McCoy's beast is not gonna be the same as X-Men 3. We're probably gonna get what we saw at the end of the Marvel's post-card scene with the a little more of an animated look for Kelsey Grammar and things like that. But we get Kelsey's voice, at least and they still are using that mocap stuff like they do with the Hulk. So you do get him and his facial features. It's just, you know, that CGI enhancement. So that that sounds cool. And I didn't hear he was actually in the trailer though. Funny enough, I did hear that Ant-Man appears a lot in the trailer, but just doesn't say anything. So Thor is the one who appears a lot and says stuff. So it's just that's kind of cool that they're at least, and now Ant-Man's daughter is confirmed to be in his stature, which she is one of the co-leaders of the Young Avengers, which Marvel has been teasing for a while. So who knows where this is all gonna end up? Yeah. And who else they still have yet to announce, honestly. Um, but trying to think of anything else that just hops.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:27

Well, we got that that uh we got that big finale, the finale of the trailer, the what I call like to call the cheap finale. So kind of a cheap shot. But it's the Thor and Captain America. Yep. Why I say that, folks, is because I still am very kind of butthurt that they brought him back. You know, and it's funny to say because, you know, I just got done on Longgo saying he's one of my he's probably my favorite character, but that's some of the reason why, you know, it's I'm very I'm very I feel very protective of this awesome story of his that we got. And and I and I don't want to see them bring him back for the sake of messing up, you know, uh their plans like they did for the multiverse. Because they'll they'll deny it, everyone can deny it, they can say what they want, but there's a reason why this movie used to be called, you know, Avengers the Kane Dynasty, and that we never saw any doom until all of a sudden a change when political things and things in the actors' personal lives and and or just plain old audience reception on bad movies. They made a big change, and I'm not against it. I'm not against it, but I am against cheapening things that we got that were so good, and I'm not saying that's what's going on yet, folks. This is that is my that is my worry. Yet I bet it is awesome seeing Captain show up and he says, Hey pal, and he reaches out his hand and uh millionaire flies through the air into his hands. Yeah, and and I'm fine with that. Like I because like you know, it's first of all, it's cool that he gets to, I'm glad they're gonna continue the him using the hammer. You know, um, but at the same time, it's like, yeah, what's Cap gonna do? I love Cap, but if you know, if Thor's dropping down on Doom with, you know, all the might of the Thanos Slayer, you know, it's like, I mean, you're talking about the axe that tore right through the infinity stones, you know, if in a in a single moment and Captain shows up. I mean, other than being an integral part of maybe why things are happening and him being there could help fix that is all and Captain's not gonna be able to beat Doom up, you know. It's could be interesting to see how that turns out and what that all means. You know, if Doom's so powerful, you know, Cap is very is limited, you know, and they've done very good at being careful about where to put him so it doesn't so it actually makes sense. Yeah, you know, um and and by giving him you know, by giving him the hammer, um, does give it a little more equal ground, at least for some power, you know. But like once again, you know, what are we talking about here? Right. So I I still think it sounds cool. And I'm I'm down, I'm down for the ride. Just let's just I'm still so leery about it, you know. Like, oh man. I kind of wish he wasn't big.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:12

Yeah, well, as a Captain America fan myself, as you could tell uh from my amazing Captain America sweatshirt here, um, I too was I was both excited and nervous when I heard he was returning. Excited because he's my favorite adventure, but nervous because they ended his story so beautifully in Endgame that it the one of the problems I think you and I I know off camera have talked about this, but now we're gonna say it live for everyone here um to hear this, is that when you start making movies that um are base between other movies that we've already seen, no matter what the character is, trying to tell their story or a story or whatever, you run the risk of potentially hurting those other films that are in the midst of it. And um I think that it it's not just for films themselves, it's for characters because character development, as we're gonna talk about with um our retrospective today on today's episode of Captain America The First Avenger, the first film. Captain America is one of those characters that has a strong arc throughout all of the Infinity saga, and you see it come to a beautifully done ending in Endgame. And it just was so when we get to Endgame guys, we're that's probably gonna be like a three or four episode uh itself for retrospective, just because of how much there is of Endgame and all that stuff.

SPEAKER_05 1:05:44

I would even argue that his arc from this first Avengers movie to the end of Endgame is the only arc in the MCU that was part of a complete picture in the Infinity saga. And I say that even with Iron Man being as prominent as it is. But when if you look at Iron Man one and two, you could arguably say that they really, yeah, I don't know, they're not really pulling all the inspiration from what happened there towards the end of his thing, other than saying I am Iron Man at the very end, right? But for Cap, it's like after watching this movie, I realized, oh wow, Cap's been very much involved in all the tools and all of the past that goes into Winter Soldier, Civil War, you know, Infinity War, each Avengers movie, so on and so forth, that as you go forward, Cap's fingerprints are all over this from the Tesseract in this movie, you know, and knowing Howard Stark, you know, to how that all plays out, toward the knowing how Howard Stark dies, and we find that out in Civil War. I mean, so on and so forth. You could take Cap from beginning to end and say, you know, if I had to guess, this would be this world's anchor bean, you know, if we're gonna go about by any of the rules that they put forth in Deadpool Wolverine. If there is one, it'd be it would be Cap because he's very pivotal in absolutely everything that goes on, including taking the stones back to where they belong.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:13

Yeah, like that all omission.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:16

Yeah, it's like Cap new cap has been that I think there's no mistake that when you get to the end and and you know when everybody's all you know incapacitated and Cap stands up and there's Thanos in his army and he straps his thing and he's it's just him standing that shot of him standing against the whole army. I don't I don't think that that was a mistake. I well I'm not saying it wasn't obviously they thought that through, but but I do think that in the back of their heads, earlier than we might realize that was something they wanted to do. Yeah. You know, as early as Civil War, I think.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:46

Yeah. Yeah, I I I think so.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:49

I think they had this idea what they want to see, those last two adventures movies, and who they wanted to use and they for those pivotal moments at least. Yeah, the cast is very much part of the fabric of that whole thing.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:02

So yeah, make finish your point. I sorry to interrupt, but yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:04

No, it's okay. Uh I'm trying to remember why I was at before, but there's something about we don't want to see it being, you know. Oh, yeah, well, we just want to be careful.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:11

I just Marvel and Russo Brothers, I do trust you, Russo Brothers. You are meant to come in as the saviors of the franchise right now with these two films. And if you have this purpose of bringing Steve Rogers in particular back, which we as Captain America fans are very happy to see, yeah. Just have to be careful and tread lightly and make sure that whatever story you're gonna tell, it doesn't muddy up what we view of Captain America and what his story was originally. If anything, it's more of an expansion on it, not anything that's gonna make us tank the water. Yeah, that's my only caveat I'll say to bring him back. Other than that, I'll take Steve Rogers any day.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:49

Yeah, so yeah. So I So to end that clip and to end this, so I have one question and we answer quickly. Do you think we'll get this trailer dropped online within the next couple weeks?

SPEAKER_01 1:09:02

That's a very good question. I I have thought about that, and I I want to say yes, we're gonna, because I think there's enough people that have seen the movie, or seen the trailer, I mean, that have been talking about and talking about it, and then the inaccuracies that could come out about the trailer. It does bring up hype for them and uh get them talking in the in the circles, of course, which is free promotion right there. And Lord knows if the rumored budget of 400 million dollars for this movie is any ounce of truth to that, they're gonna need as much free marketing as possible because they need to make this movie definitely over a billion dollars to make this break-even point happen. But, anyways, um I don't think any of his doubts gonna make that. Yeah, oh no, I I definitely think this is I would lay money down. This is at least a 1.5 billion plus dollar movie. Yeah, and so that I know that they sprung for more of a a budget for the film, knowing that oh, we're definitely getting this back. So, and honestly, most of that money there could be getting back some of these legacy actors we want to get back, anyways, because they're all most of these guys are big, big enough names that they all might come with a pretty penny to return for these films. So, anyway, so we we joked earlier that 200 million of that is Robert Dyne Jr. The rest of that is everybody else, yeah, yeah, yeah. Anyways, um, no, just uh be careful with Captain America. I'm happy he's coming back. I that's my only worry, actually, honestly, is how they're gonna do Captain America and then just to see what great story they're gonna tell.

SPEAKER_05 1:10:39

But you think they're gonna drop trailer probably the next couple weeks.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:41

Trailer, I I would say by this time next week, by the time we do filming of our next podcast, I will not be surprised if this trailer comes out because I think that that just increases the hype.

SPEAKER_05 1:10:52

Yeah, I think the same. I think within the next couple weeks we're gonna get the trailer online. I think we're also gonna get it in front of Spider-Man. And I think Spider-Man's post-credit scene is gonna be the first full trailer of Doomsday.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:05

We may even get this trailer in front of Mandalorian Grogu because that's also very possible. That comes out in June. And um, I know that they are concerned, from my understanding, of because they're Star Wars franchise, as you talked about before, you either really hate it or it's really good. There's no really good. You might do a whole you have to see the movie to see this trailer thing. Look what they do with Avatar. They wanted to guarantee Butts were in the seat, so they did four teaser trailers of Dooze to guarantee Avatar is gonna get that money. I will not be surprised they put this trailer in front of Mandlorian Grover just to help boost those numbers.

SPEAKER_05 1:11:41

You remember that you Avatar fans and you say, see how awesome that is? Yeah, with the help of Marvel.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:46

Oh, yes, yes.

SPEAKER_05 1:11:48

Come on, James Cameron, make something original.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:50

I just want to wrap up this segment with saying that there is a re-release of Endgame coming out into theaters in September through something new called what we talked about on the podcast last time, but we speculated is this a TV show or what what is it? But it turns out, and I had to I had to write down the description of it to make sure I get this right for everybody. It the um infinity vision screening. So I was curious what this was. I did a little bit of digging on this, and um the reason why I'm bringing this up is after Endgame came out, it became the number one grossing movie of all time, beating the first Avatar until Avatar decided to do a re-release during COVID in China and it boosted back up to number one. Well, I'm telling you what, boom, Endgame is coming back, and we are taking that spot again, Avatar. Anyways, so that's happening in this September 2026. So I'm gonna just read this little write-up I have on it just to understand what the InfinityVision is, and that I could wrap up this part of this uh multiverse minute here. Disney may have taken this first real step toward challenging IMAX, and it did without building a single new theater. At Cinemacon, Disney introduced Infinity Vision, a premium large format branding and certification program for auditoriums that already exist. No acquisitions, no prod projector rollout, no new construction. Instead, Disney is leveraging current premium screens across major chains, such as AMC, Regal, and Cinemart, the one that I like to go to, by placing a new Disney-backed identity on top of existing infrastructure. This matters because IMAX's biggest advantage has never been hardware alone, it's brand recognition. For years, IMAX has been the premium format audiences associated with the best theatrical experience. Its business model also benefits from partnerships and revenue sharing tied to premium ticket sales, with annual revenue around $410 million and strong margins. That IMAX name itself is a major asset. Disney appears to be testing that advantage directly. If moviegoers see Infinity Vision promoted for major Marvel and Disney releases, the company could be begin shifting consumer attention towards its own premium label rather than automatically defaulting to IMAX. And I'm telling you what, ladies and gentlemen, the main reason I think they're doing this is because Dune from Warner Brothers secured a big deal in taking up all the IMAX screens for three weekends in a row. And uh no one is blinking when it comes to moving their movie dates around. I know there's a lot of speculation that maybe Doomsday is gonna take Jamanji's spot because Jumanji moved from the week weekend before to Christmas Day. So they're free up one weekend at least that could claim some IMAX theaters. They're going full on Doomsday for this event. And Disney is deciding, well, if we can't get IMAX, we're gonna make our own version to a degree. So um the technology gap also isn't what it once was. Laser projection, enhanced sound, recliner seating, and upgraded presentation are now common across many premium auditoriums. This means branding, exclusive content, and marketing may matter more than ever in deciding where our audiences spend extra for a ticket. There's also a business incentive for exhibitors. Many theater chains already own and operate these premium screens. If Disney can drive premium demand through InfinityVision without requiring major new investments, chains may welcome another high-value format option along with IMAX rather than relying on a single premium brand. The timing is notable. With major Disney releases such as Avengers Endgame returning to theaters in September and Doomsday arriving in December, Infinity Division could receive immediate exposure through some of the biggest box office events on the calendar. That said, this does not mean IMAX is suddenly in danger. iMac still holds meaningful advantages, global recognition, filmmaker relationships, pri prior to the day, proprietary camera branding, remastering technology, and a long-established premium footprint worldwide. But for the first time in years, one of the world's biggest content companies appears to be making a direct play for the premium format conversation. Whether Infinity Vision becomes a real rival or just another label will depend on whether audiences actually care. Yeah. So this is uh this is gonna be interesting to see. I'm in I'm curious to go see this in Infinity Vision for Endgame just to get a little taste of what are they talking about. So uh we're gonna see that come September. And that was the other thing they uh announced at the CinemaCon. So that along the Doomsday trailer, that was a pretty eventful day for Marvel. Yeah, it was. And I think it did help soften the blow of the layoffs that happened just the night prior. So it was just their timing. But um, anyways, ladies and gentlemen, what did you think of the Avengers Doomsday trailer reaction that's going on right now? Um, is there anything um notable that we missed on this reaction or on this explanation of it? Um please comment down below. Let us know your thoughts. Do you agree with our thoughts on these things? What do you think of Infinity Vision? Do you think it's actually gonna be the big deal that Disney hopes it to be? Or do you think that IMAX is still king? Let us know in the comments below. And with that said, that concludes our multiverse minute, even if it's 45 minutes, uh news section of the week.

SPEAKER_05 1:17:40

What are we gonna talk about next? Well, next we're gonna go into our breakdown of Daredevil. We're gonna jump right into our segment that we call Branch Point Breakdown, and we're gonna go ahead and talk about season two, episode five of Daredevil Born Again. You got it. We'll be right there. All right, guys, welcome back to the Godell Monteverse, and we're doing the breakdown or the branch point breakdown for season two, episode five of Daredevil Born Again. Um, this is an interesting episode. We're gonna jump right in and just take a few seconds and talk about what we thought about this episode, a few things that's happened. This segment this time, guys, is gonna be a little quicker. This wasn't too much for me to really get through. Um let's go ahead and see what Sammy thinks first, and we'll go from there. And what do you think there, Sam? This season two, episode five so far, after a big episode last week.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:35

Yeah, oh, last week was huge. Last week was a season finale. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Last week was definitely noteworthy to talk about the all the stuff that went on here. So there we're only about halfway through the season, I believe, now, and we're unfortunately um like my brother just alluded to, this probably won't be too long of a breakdown, only because guys, when it comes to a TV show, sometimes you get a filler episode. And whether you think that this way or not, this indeed was a filler episode. It was definitely just a something to um take like a little walk down memory lane for some of these characters. Uh, it brought back from the dead two characters that were fan favorites from the original Netflix Daredevil show, and I think that it brought them back in good taste, and I think it was just to a further uh never-ending story plot throughout uh this season so far. Um, I didn't have too much of a wow factor to this other than finding out that Vanessa really wasn't dead when you started the episode out. Spoiler warning. But um now we we're back at the same spot as we started the beginning with did this actually is she dead? That's basically how the episode ended, that she went back into a slipping into something else. And we're gonna find out again if she is alive or not in the next episode. But other than that, um I liked the scene of Foggy and Matt and um helping out one of Foggy's uh childhood friends, fathers, I believe, or brothers, something like that. Um, I think that was kind of cool. I liked seeing a little bit of Vanessa's origin. It didn't get too deeply involved because honestly, the Netflix Daredevil show really did a great job explaining her already. If anything, this was just an additional um extended opening scene for her before you got to see what she actually was like in the original Daredevil series. So it there's not really too much to talk about here, other than it's uh uh the only other new thing, I guess, that happened, because you didn't get too many characters in here, was you got to see um Wesley that was from season one of Daredevil that uh Karen Page had killed. Um rightfully so, and I remember watching that when that first happened. I was like, oh my gosh, this is gonna be epic. But, anyways, you got to see a little bit of how he was involved with um that other new guy. I forgot his name at the top of my head, forgive me. But you got to see how this new guy is definitely taking on the Wesley persona of the Born Again series. So um those scenes were kind of cool. Honestly, that was probably some of the coolest scenes and getting um his communications director there to kind of confess to actually leaking stuff out when he's trying so hard not to say he's part of it. So it that really is the moment where I would say you saw his intimidation now and how he could be now. You see Louisa's origin, how it got started with King. So yeah, yeah, I agree. Other than that, I have nothing else really to say on this episode because, like I said, guys, it was a filler, it was nice, it was cool, it was something to watch. But I I could have easily skipped this episode and I don't think it would have made a difference so far. We'll find out later.

SPEAKER_05 1:21:50

Yeah. Yeah, I feel bad because I feel like a couple of our news segments are gonna be longer than this one this time, and that that sucks because you want to break down a whole episode, and we could get real meticulous and break down scene by scene. But frankly, I'm gonna give as much effort to that as they did by giving us this kind of crappy episode. I'm gonna be harder on it than Sammy is, only because these are the kind of episodes of TV shows I really don't like. I'm not a big fan of the memberberry stuff. You know, it's I get it, you know, we want to go back into the past and all that. And this this is and I'm coming from a unique position because I've yet to really get caught up on all the Netflix stuff. Um, I'm late to the Daredevil Party. Uh so when they rely heavily on like they did in this episode on really feeling connection to what was in that old show, it was it lost me only and it's my fault. I'm not saying it's their fault because I didn't watch it. But you know, they grabbed me from the first season of this to where we are now. I'm like, okay, I'm in on this, and even get through the member berries of what they wanted us to do with the other stuff. But this one was so heavy on it. Where I'm like, what do we what was this episode? Like this episode is about 90% not present day. And I was really excited. I thought they took a big swing in the last episode when they killed Vanessa, and now she's not dead. And not only that, but we're gonna do this long, elaborate goodbye and remember this and feeling that, and then we're gonna get into well, she's not gonna be gone, guys. By the way, it's if she's not dead by now, they're not doing it, and that's that to me is a missed opportunity. Not saying I want the character gone, it's not that it's a bad character, but man, it makes for good TV and good drama when you take chances and you really like do that big swing. Because you know, I was looking forward to an unhinged kingpin, and okay, I guess we're gonna get an unhinged kingpin because he's mad about it and all that, but not compared to a kingpin that lost something.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:57

That's true, actually.

SPEAKER_05 1:23:58

You know, and that to me is different because we could have some really big epic finale coming up. You know, if he lost her and she was dead, we could do a nice little five-episode slow burn to some awesome thing that he does that where Daredevil's needed, and that everything changes things around, and and everything, you know, we start to go a different direction because this underground terrorism kind of feel of the show is gonna start to get old, you know. After a while, it's gotta start looking the other way, or it's gonna be just another show that keeps doing the same thing over and over again, which this episode felt like. And not to see that's bad. These guys are great, they all do a great job. Just frankly, it was boring. I kind of was watching it like, oh, oh, he's you know, it's it's predictable, predictable, predictable, predictable. Okay, cool. Things I don't know enough about are happening now. You know, characters that I wish I knew better, but I still know are important, that I didn't need to see more of to understand what's happening. And frankly, this conversation between him and Bullseye of this argument between justice and you know, when it's right to die for something, and you know, where where you're where all that moral ground is, I just feel like we've tread this ground already with him and other characters. And how many different ways are we gonna look at it? We get it. We get it, and that's all about justice at no at every expense. Okay. You know, let's move on. So, what's that mean then, you know? And and that that's kind of where I'm at. This episode was a very big honestly, folks. If you haven't seen it, just wait till the next one. All you gotta know is she's not dead. And right there, when it started out like that for me, I was just kind of, oh, come on, come on. But it's okay. I get it. That's what these that's what these shows have trouble doing. And if Daredevil doesn't have the balls to do it, that's fine. You guys are still good writers, you're still making good stuff, it's great content. I'll still watch it. I might not watch it again, but I'll still watch it at least the one time. But if you want me to watch you again and continue on more, then hey man, up the stakes here. Let's make this something. And let's make every season something. I can name five uh five TV shows. I'm not even gonna name any of them because we'd I'd be in a big rant that would be then we would be on here for an hour and a half. But I can name five TV shows that take multiple chances like they did last week and stick with them, and those shows ended up being awesome for those reasons.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:19

So, because I I kind of alluded to the beginning, and this is just from my understanding of television. I want to ask you this question, Ike, about um do you know any TV shows that never have a dull moment? There's like a filler episode.

SPEAKER_05 1:26:34

So, look, uh every show is definitely gonna have the good question. Every show is gonna have some episodes where you're like, huh, not a lot happened there. But where you're there are lots of there are my favorite shows though, tend to not have episodes that feel like you're being re-read again. So at the very least, I do know some TV shows that don't get boring, that might have some episodes where not a lot happens, or there's like a relief in kind of the craziness. I mean, when I think of the top of my head, I think of a show like The Shield. And that's 92 episodes to that entire series or so. And there's only one episode out of those 92 that I can think of that was like you didn't need that one. The rest, every episode, something happened, or a key thing about a character comes to light, whether it's just to us or other characters in that storyline, that you're just like, I can't believe we're we're only like four episodes into a 12 episode season, and they're doing this right now. And then not only that, when you get to the next episode, they meant what they just did. Like it didn't, they don't go back on it. And one in the episode I'm alluding to in the shield, there's an episode where they go back. There's like a prequel episode where they go back before the beginning of the first episode. So it's a little boring because you can't oh wait a minute, we're already like, but it I think it was just a filler because they needed to make 12. Episodes that that season. And then later on, you kind of realize some of the stuff in that episode kind of does play forward a little as well. So even then, there's payoff to something that didn't need to be there. Um, yes, Sam, there are many TV shows that I still love where I could, if I if you you know put a gun to my head, I could pick out an episode per season that was like that was probably the least good one, and that was probably one that wasn't necessarily needed. But I definitely could still name six where they're at least, at the very least, the story felt like it moved forward still. And this felt like it stayed still right in one spot. I agree. And and to me, that's all it's a waste of a don't get me wrong, it's artsy, it's cool, and it's that's the direction you're going. Awesome. But boy, you had me when I thought she was dead. I'm like, man, I couldn't wait to get to this episode. I was like, is this the first time I didn't watch another show, guys, that I would watch before this that turned this on first. I won't do that again. As much as I can't wait to see the next episode, because I'm hoping they have good stuff, it's gonna wait till probably the next day it comes out because I'm gonna watch that other show and watch it first. Because that show hasn't disappointed me yet. And yeah, it's I'm that particular about it because I time is valuable, guys, and I watch a lot of movies. Movies is my first priority when it comes down to like any kind of fandom I have or something that I kind of indulge myself in. So when it comes down to TV, if it's not, if it doesn't grab me and make me interested, I don't have a lot of boring television shows I watch. You know, nights I get home from work and I'm tired, I maybe some Seinfeld, you know, maybe some home improvement. I watch MASH probably a hundred times. Those are my go-to feel-good shows that I can go to bed to. But if I'm sitting down to watch something new, if it's not got me by episode two or three, I'm probably gonna wait on it for quite a while. And I know a lot of you'd say, you know, sometimes you gotta wait a few episodes. For me, my top five favorite TV shows, episode one. Had me hooked. Yep. Hooked. And if if you can't get me hooked by episode, and I'll give you three. That's usually my own personal rule. If by episode three, I'm not somewhat invested in somebody and something, I'm moving on, man. It's three episodes, it's three hours of my time. I can watch a whole movie that makes me cry. Or three hours or something that I'm wondering if it's gonna get good or not. Hook me or don't. And it's not, I'm not saying things that don't hook me are bad. Taste, it's all taste, guys. So when I diss this episode of this show, this is all just my taste. And if you happen to feel like I'm speaking to you through my taste, you're like, hey, I kind of like what this guy says because it sounds like how I feel about things, then my personal taste is to tell you you can miss this episode. And frankly, you know, watch a rerund of Everybody Loves Raymond because it's more fun than what I want. It was just really and not like I said, it's not because it's bad, it just was nothing.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:48

This is an episode, in my opinion, to piggyback off what you just said, that if you are binging the show and all the episodes are released, like how Netflix used to do it, and just release all the episodes, that's okay, because this is just one of the bingeable episodes. However, for doing weekly releases the way they've been doing it, especially when we got out of nowhere, episodes two and three dropped at the same time. This easily could have been an episode dropped at the same time of four or whatever the next one is. Yeah. Because it's it didn't live up to a hype in any way, other than you just wanted to see a couple dead characters that are just appearing in the memory. That's literally all they're doing. It's not bringing anyone back from the dead, which I appreciate Marvel actually doing that because when that's one of the problems when it comes to some of these fantasy sci-fi superhero type movies and shows, is that you know, you you you kill a character and you make it a meaningful reason why they died, like foggy and things like that, and then uh all of a sudden you're gonna bring him back because he's just so popular, the fans. Well, part of his popularity sometimes is how his death contributed to the overall story of what you're telling. And so bringing him back, if it's only in the memory, that's one thing, but as an actual fleshed out, like, oh, I never died, be like, you love you lose me and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_05 1:32:03

Yeah, you see, it's you you bring up a good point, and uh from someone that doesn't have the nostalgia of everything from Netflix in me. I got some, not a lot, guys. I guess I still gotta finish it, which I'm going to because I'm gonna be, you know, I'm gonna if I'm gonna say if something overall is good or sucks or not, I need to see it because it's only fair. Um, so I will make myself as much as I've had to push through some of it, I will. It's still good, don't get me wrong. I do love this new iteration of this Born Again stuff, it's been great. Um, but when I was watching him and Frank have conversations about Foggy, the times that there's arguments where Foggy gets brought up, or I understand through what they can do as characters, what that character or what that person meant to them. I didn't need this episode to jam more of it down my throat. I get it, Foggy's a good guy. Okay, you know, he still yelled at his mom at some point when he's a teenager, guys. You're making him way too it's it's almost like you're it just gets a little too much. It's like don't cram it so much, because I kind of almost feel like this justice thing, it's and it's the same point. It's like with with Daredevil, you know, crying with uh Bullseye about you know justice, justice though, but justice! It's almost getting to a point where it's like, you know, you kind of sound like that Jedi from Star Wars, you're kind of a wuss, man. Like get your hands dirty. I'm more on the Frank Castle side. Like, you know, you're right, it is justice, but sometimes Mofo's gotta die. You know, and it's like Batman gets that, at least the good versions of Batman do. And and that's I I don't know. I I'm not against the judge, I get it. He's right, but at the same time, you know, it's it don't cram this like it is because if this just felt if you didn't get it, we're gonna remind you one more time. And it's like, I get it, I get it. Like I do get it. You you didn't need to show me, I didn't see it, and you didn't need to show me. That's how good you've done is you didn't need to show me. You're showing me through how they react about just talking about these people. You don't need to go the extra mile and show me more, you know. It's now I feel it's it's saturated, you know, and it's almost like, okay, I'm with you in the justice thing. Now you're just kind of sound like a wuss, you know? And it's like, you know, that's always been my argument with with Star Wars. Like the Jedi are cool, except they don't do anything preemptive. They're it's like this, well, we're just it's all peace until it's not, and then there's rules. And if you really think about it, guys, you know, hot take, the Jedi are the bad guys of the universe. We'll talk about that someday. When we get into our our uh Star Wars retrospective series, yeah, you want to talk about controlling your feelings and what you can think and things you can't do. Why can't the Jedi have families and fall in love? Come on, guys, what are we talking about here? You know, what are you fighting for if you can't love things in life? Don't have any fear and all that. I don't know. Fear is kind of like that one thing that drives you to survive. Same reason too. The fear of losing everybody? Don't they all experience that then? Isn't that kind of a contradiction, guys? Sorry, I'm getting way ahead of myself. I can pick apart Star Wars all day. Just letting you know, if they're not supposed to have any fear, then why are they even worried about everybody dying? What? Sorry, guys. Anyways, bringing it back to Daredevil.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:19

Same reason why Catholic priests can't have wives for some reason, even though God ordained it in the Bible and said it's okay. Yeah, for the reason you can't, and then you see the Catholic Church have some problems here or there and be like, well, just let them have wives, as Jesus said you can. He's the bride of the church. Anyways, that's a religious hot take right there for you folks, and we are still a religious podcast. So back to Daredevil.

SPEAKER_05 1:35:41

Yeah, so yeah, so like with this, it but very similar with this. It's don't you don't you don't need to you don't need to uh cram it down our throats, you know. I love TV shows that where by the end of the series the point of the series comes together. And when it does come together, you realize, oh my god, from episode one, this was that slow climb over the hill to it. And when it gets there, it hits you like a ton of rocks. And this is a kind of series though, much like other series, is we already know what that is, and we're just kind of waiting for it to happen. And episodes like this perpetuate that, which makes it feel boring. Yeah, and that's where I'm at with it. Watch it guys, keep the show going. You know, I think we should still entertain the fact that it's in there. Shout out to having Rosonio. Rosanio Dawson show up as uh she shows up as someone who that helps out Bullseye, who's her. That's a unique little cameo of an actor to be in there.

SPEAKER_01 1:36:42

I'm totally forgetting that she did.

SPEAKER_05 1:36:44

Yeah, so if anything come out of the first show. Yeah, if anything come out of it, it was nice seeing her again. But once again, member berries. So, you know, cool. That's all I got to say. And Kingpin is the first time I could care less. I want to see the Kingpin start to fall apart. This, okay, you could argue that we are, but he's not because she's still alive and there's hope and there's this, and ah, killer. Just start the next episode with, well, well, whatever happens, done. And let's just see this dude start to unravel, man. That you know how fun that would be to watch the unraveling him and it come to a peak eventually, where then even everybody that's behind him realizes, oh crap, you're nothing. They already know how bad he is, but now they're gonna know how really bad he is.

SPEAKER_01 1:37:27

The only thing I'll say about the the this episode just to help tie this up, because like I said.

SPEAKER_05 1:37:32

Maybe to make it feel better too, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:37:33

Yeah, maybe make it feel a little better about it. And also that this this breakpoint, ranch point breakdown uh segment doesn't need to be this long for an episode, really is kind of there. It's a filler. But um, I did find it interesting that when Vanessa does come to, and she's you could tell that she has some memory issues herself, which is kind of like interesting that the episode's all about memories, and she kind of is slipping with hers because of her injuries. That the nurse is trying to help her and see exactly what's going on with her after she wakes up, and Kingdom's like, No, get her that juice, get her that pineapple juice, or whatever it was. Like, yeah, get her that juice and get it now. Be like, um, I would think that my first reaction will be, Oh my god, my wife is alive. Please make sure she's not bleeding internally right now, or is something going on? Because by the end of this episode, she goes, she slips back into this question mark of, is she alive? Is she not? And probably, like I said, she's probably not alive. We'll find out next week when the episode starts. But like, dude, now you definitely did kill her. Like, you could have you could have waited a brief moment and said, get an exam first, and I'll get you that juice while you're getting the exam. Something like that.

SPEAKER_05 1:38:47

If they're about to tell him that she's fine unless you give her pineapple juice, you know, it's like, dude, who acts like this anyways to the people saving your wife's life? Like, no matter how bad you are, even the baddest of the bad guys know when the help is necessary.

unknown 1:39:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:39:02

And this makes Kingpin, yeah, and this makes King Ping feel one-dimensional. It makes him feel like that bad guy of oh, why does anybody like you? You know, that's how I felt about Negan in The Walking Dead, the way he treated his people around him. No one's killed this guy yet. He treats everybody around him like garbage. If you had one time where you realize why they followed him, but there's no reason 10 guys don't just jump him and end his life. And they just don't because, well, he's a character that we need to have. And he's good at it, he's fun, and he's quirky. And it's like, this is I mean, you're you there's a fine line between this actor is doing a great job, and this kid, this villain could be a great, awesome villain. And then all of a sudden he's silly. We're gonna talk about that in a few minutes. And that's for sure. That's how it felt. It's like, wow, you're acting like a nobody likes you. You know, it's like we need to see the side of you that makes us feel that there's oh, this is why someone could rally behind a man like this, even if later on you still find that there's deeper, true, darker colors. You know, but when you're yelling at nurses about juice and stuff like that, it's like you're like, okay, dick. So you know what? I'm not gonna tell you that she can't have pineapple juice. Let's give her all of it. You know what I mean? Like, so it's like it's like here you go, sir. You know, it's like because that could have been the one thing that would have saved her life. It's just whatever you do, don't ever give her pineapple juice. Yeah. It's like, oh no.

SPEAKER_02 1:40:24

We all know now, not Mr.

SPEAKER_05 1:40:26

King. He wants it in her now. She didn't even like pineapple juice. That's right. He said that. Never had pineapple juice once in her life. And it's just something he wanted her to do.

SPEAKER_01 1:40:36

Well, ladies and gentlemen, that's much sense it makes. That is a conclusion then to this branch point breakdown segment of our podcast. If you're just watching this as a clip uh on YouTube right now, please go online and check out our full video of the episode or other clips, of course. Please like, subscribe, and wherever you're streaming, I hope you're listening and I hope you're enjoying it. Next up, we're gonna get into the main event we are so excited for the Captain America First Avenger retrospective. Yeah, right there. All right, everybody. We are back, the Cadell Multiverse Podcast, and we are talking about Captain America, the first event. That first Avenger, guys. Oh, I am excited for this. As you could tell, like in our intro, I am wearing Captain America.

SPEAKER_05 1:41:33

So I was just having a conversation with Sammy. I need to jump up on my apparel. I have no shirts or anything of Marvel. And I'm like, man, I better get ordering some stuff. Sammy's on it. Don't worry, guys, I will be decked out for X-Men. You might even have Wolverine Claws for X-Men.

SPEAKER_01 1:41:50

Oh, oh. Oh, it's a yeah. Yeah. Oh, okay. This is we this is gonna be so fun. Um, I've been looking forward to this episode because of course this is my favorite character of the Avengers, I will say. Um, and that is after watching all of Infinity saga. I can say that Captain America, he just he he's he's my man right there. He's good.

unknown 1:42:12

He's good.

SPEAKER_01 1:42:12

Wanda's my girl, and Captain's my man.

SPEAKER_00 1:42:14

So oh, there you go.

SPEAKER_01 1:42:15

Steve, I should say, just to be clear. So, um, let's see. So, I will uh give you a little bit of the history behind the film. Yep. And then we're gonna get into each act, we're gonna break it down, we're gonna talk about them, we're gonna talk about our favorite parts, the parts that maybe didn't work so well for us. I am trying to do a little bit better on my scoring because if you watch any of our episodes so far, uh I either really hate something or really like something. And so there's I'm trying to get that in-between numbers here or there, but I like I said, I base a lot of these scores on my feelings. I'm trying to get a little more logical and factual-wise than feelings, but it's Captain America, man. I mean, it's a tall order now. I don't know if I could go based off logic. Anyways, anyways, I'll be right back. That's why I'm here, folks. That's why he's here. He's the good balance. And then ironically, we get to some of the same scores.

SPEAKER_05 1:43:12

So pretty close.

SPEAKER_01 1:43:13

I I kind of like I like doing these series.

SPEAKER_05 1:43:15

I just I just made it a rule to be as critical as I can. So even the ones I really love, you're gonna hear me have some complaints. So just because I complain doesn't mean these aren't like the last movies we watched, watch all of them, they're good. Like they're excellent, you know. I'm just also gonna be as honest and straightforward. So at the end of this, when we give our final list of where we put them in there, it's as honest and and straightforward as it can be, you know, of not just the movie or how it was made, or like all the details to it.

SPEAKER_01 1:43:45

So yeah. All right, so history behind the film. Here we go. Before Captain America, the first Avenger, ever rolled cameras, Marvel Studios had a unique challenge. How do you make a superhero movie set mostly in the 1940s feel exciting to modern audiences while staying true to one of Marvel's oldest icons? The answer became a mix of World War II adventure film, old school patriotism, pulp sci-fi, and heartfelt character work. Marvel needed someone who could play Steve Rogers before and after the serum, physically convincing as a hero, but emotionally believable as a small, overlooked kid from Brooklyn. Though many actors had auditioned, including Sebastian Stan, John Krasinski, Channing Tatum, Zachariah Levi, uh Glenn Glenn Powell, Wyatt Russell, and Chris Pratt among the most notable, which by the way, most of them end up becoming superheroes later in their acting career. Uh, the casting director Sarah Haley Finn ultimately set her sights on Chris Evans. Now, Chris Evans was initially hesitant. He had already played Johnny Storm in Fox's Fantastic Four films and worried that committing to a long Marvel contract would be too much for him. Marvel reportedly pursued him multiple times before he accepted. At the time, Evans was coming off of films like Push, The Losers, and Scott Pilgrim vs. the World. He was known more for charm and comedy than Ernest Heroism, which ended up working perfectly. His casting became one of Marvel's best long-term decisions, and I agree to that. Though Sebastian Stan wasn't ultimate wasn't the ultimate choice for the title hero, he was cast as James Buchanan Barnes, aka Bucky. Still an emerging actor known for gossip girl and smaller roles. No one knew he'd become one of Marvel's most important recurring characters. Even me at the time, folks, and I watched this. But Oscar-winning veteran actor Tommy Lee Jones brought authority and dry humor as Colonel Phillips. Best known for period dramas and stage work, Haley Atwell brought to life the kick-ass love interest Margaret Peggy Carter. Her classic screen presence made her ideal for a 1940s intelligence officer. She instantly gave Peggy death beyond just a love interest. Fresh off iconic film roles like Agent Smith and L. Ron Defame, Hugo Weaving knew how to bring Gravitas to Red Skull. Director John Johnson was the perfect choice. He had already directed The Rocketeer, another retro patriotic hero story, and had a background in visual design from Star Wars and Indiana Jones. The movie filmed in London, Manchester, Liverpool, and Los Angeles sound stages. Why in the UK? Many streets still had the architecture that could convincingly resemble a 1940s New York and Europe. Everything had to feel authentic from vintage cars to World War II uniforms to old storefronts to 1940s military camps and of course practical hydro weapons mixed with retro futurism. The production also had to balance realism with comic book weirdness, Nazis with laser cannons, one biggest yes, awesomeness, right. One of the biggest technical hurdles was the pre-Serum Steve Rogers. Marvel used body doubles, digital head replacement, shrinking effects, and careful camera angles. This was impressive for 2011, and it still holds up surprisingly well. For comic accuracy and faithful adaptations, Captain America First Avenger kept the core elements that made Captain America iconic. Steve Rogers, as a frail but brave kid from Brooklyn, rejected repeatedly for service in the military, chosen because of character, not strength. Super Soldier Serum Transformation, Red Skull as Cap's first great enemy, Bucky as Steve's wartime partner, the Howling Commandos, and patriotic wartime symbol becoming a real hero. To appeal to modern audiences, a few changes were a necessity, such as Bucky was aged up from a teenage sidekick to an adult soldier. Peggy Carter was expanded into a much stronger character. Hydra became more sci-fi independent than just a Nazi command. Tesseract tied Cap into the larger MCU mythology. The movie feels different from later MCU entries because it leans into sincerity over sarcasm, adventure over spectacle, wartime commodity, and classic heroism. It's closer to Raiders of the Lost art than a modern quip, heavy superhero film. At release on July 22nd, 2011, some underestimated it, but over time many fans appreciated more because it built Steve Rogers as a genuine noble man first and superhero second. The groundwork is Widecap's later arc in Winter Soldier, Civil War, and Endgame worked so well. For the Rotten Tomato scores, ladies and gentlemen, the critics gave it about an 80%, which is not bad. Audience gave it slightly lower, between 75 to 76%. So critics liked it slightly more than general audience, but both gave generally positive reviews. The box office versus the budget. Now here's where money talks. Production budget was approximately $140 million. The worldwide box office was $370.6 million. Domestically, it was about $176.7 million, while internationally was slightly more at $193.9 million. The profit picture, the film earned over 2.5 times its production budget, which is a success in any studio's book. After marketing and theater cuts, it was considered a solid but not top. To your MCU financial hit. It performed well enough to firmly establish Cap as a franchise cornerstone, heading into the Avengers just one year later. While audiences thought at the time, the reaction was generally positive, but a little more measured compared to later MCU entries. People liked Chris Evans as Steve Rogers. He was widely praised. The 1940s World War II aesthetic felt fresh for a superhero film. Haley Atwell's Peggy Carter became an instant fan favorite. And what's not to like, ladies and gentlemen. Red Skull and Halt hydress comic book villain energy. Perfect. Beautiful. The emotional sincerity, Cat felt like a classic hero, but not ironic or clippy. Common criticisms included a first act that was seen as slow by some viewers. Some thought was a fairly standard origin story. A few felt it was less spectacular compared to other MCU films, like Iron Man or Thor. But over time, audience's opinion has actually improved, especially after later MCU films. It's now often viewed- it's now often viewed as one of the most emotionally grounded MCU origin stories. Steve Rogers is seen as one of the most consistently well-written characters in the franchise, and that is very true, ladies and gentlemen. The film's sincerity aged well compared to more joke-heavy superhero entries. Without the first Avenger getting Steve Rogers exactly right, the MCU likely never reaches the emotional heights it later did. Tony Stark may have launched the universe, but Steve gave it a soul. So that is our little history behind the film breakdown of Captain America the First Avengers. Yes, sir. Alright, Ike, why don't you read to us the official synopsis tomorrow released at the time?

SPEAKER_05 1:51:50

Alright, so here we go, folks. Captain America The First Avengers follows Steve Rogers, a frail young man who transforms into the super soldier Captain America during World War II as he battles the villainous Red Skull and the Hydra organization.

SPEAKER_01 1:52:07

Alright, that's what we're gonna see throughout this whole film. What are your initial uh reactions so far to the history behind the film?

SPEAKER_05 1:52:14

Very interesting with the history behind the film because there's a bunch of bullet points that you just mentioned from Chris Evans. There's a lot of things I agreed with it, but almost over half of them I disagree. So this is gonna be a very interesting episode, fellas. Uh or ladies and gentlemen. Yeah, it's uh surprisingly um the the the the scary thing about this one for me is it it we will get there. Let's talk about the history first. Yeah, no, I'm not surprised it made the money though, because you're coming off of all of them, of all these ones that made a lot of money. And when you come off of something like Thor, which was real good, you know, at the time, yeah, it's I mean, take all the money, you know. Then it's one step closer to Avengers, and that's everyone can't wait, you know, and it's coming.

SPEAKER_01 1:53:00

So I I could what I'll comment on when it comes to the money and things like that, is it didn't make sense if you look at today's standards of an MCU film, a lot of people would say this is pretty bad. That's only because MCU has built itself to such a quality level film that if uh you get numbers like these, it means there's something low in the quality because you've built your fan base. So far, this is Steve's first film. This is the what the fifth film overall or fourth film in the MCU. We had what Iron Man 1, Iron Man 2, Incredible Hall of Thor. So, yeah, this is the fifth film of the of the MCU thus far. And uh as we talked about in our last episode, that Marvel already took a big lead stepping into more of the fantasy style of Thor. And that did wasn't that was a success. And this movie was a success too. But what I'll say for a personal point, um, for me at least, when I was growing up, I wasn't into period pieces of revolving history. My dad, he could watch anything revolving, like Saving Private Ryan, Band of Brothers. As I've gotten older, I appreciate those movies more, and I do watch them now. But when I'm younger and I want to watch a superhero movie, I see why the kids were more drawn to Iron Man compared to Captain America, because this film really, if you like history movies, even though this is fiction, my goodness, this is great for that part. And this is its own little slice of the FCU that honestly, for the rest of Cap's time, we don't get the same type of Captain America. Like we get Captain America before the style of movie, because it's the only period piece set during World War II. That's true. Everything else out of that is that man out of time scenario that we hear so much about how we'll make Captain America Captain America. So um, this is definitely, I would say, a little bit more of an acquired taste if you are someone who's a little hesitant on history films. But I gotta tell you, if you like comic book films, this is pretty darn good and accurate.

SPEAKER_05 1:55:04

So yeah. It doesn't require any homework. I think that's why. Yeah, as long as you understand this is World War II, you know who Hitler was, you know what was going on, you know that they were in a war, everything else is gonna be hand fed to you. Which is not it's not a bad thing. That's not that's not a slight at the movie at all. It just they they're just like just understand when this is, and that other than that, you're you're fine because your villains and and your group that he's with is is completely fiction. You know, you don't you don't need the the Nazis to be like the Nazis were because you're you don't you know that you see a real Nazi in the whole thing other than you know who they were before they become Hydra, you know, or you know Hydra's obviously fictional as it is. So it's it it's it's pretty hands hand fed to you, like which you know other things like when you start getting to X-Men, it would help to know a little history because what Singer did with making it a part of history. But with this, you don't need to, it didn't need to do that.

SPEAKER_01 1:56:04

So you're right. This kind of this kind of self-explained itself to you, which is good for the audience, honestly, because you don't have to be a history buff to know what happened in World War II when you watch this movie, because you jump right into Steve Rogers as this guy that wants to be in the army so bad because everyone he knows is in there, and they're fighting literally a world war at the time, and uh he just can't get in because he's not what the army would be looking for, and then all of a sudden he becomes much better than what the army would ever be hoping to get. So yeah, no, for sure. Yeah, so it's it's yeah, like like you just said, and like I just said already, it's it's um it it tells you the history of this, and it shows you that Nazis were real, what was happening during that time was very real, and that Hydra is just an extension of Nazism, and uh actually kind of like a how would you say it? It kind of it became its own independent thing, which I think the movie did really well with showing you hey, it may have started with Nazi roots, but Red Skull had bigger ambitions for the Hydra division of uh Hitler's uh whole plans. So yeah, which is cool. It sets up for a lot more interesting stuff later on in the MCU.

SPEAKER_05 1:57:17

So which, if you are a history buff, there actually was divisions in Nazi stuff, uh in Nazi lure where they were trying to find things, like looking for artifacts and stealing things and doing that kind of stuff because they actually there were a part of guys they actually did believe some of the stuff that this guy saw. And Hitler, they were in some weird stuff. They thought they could make zombies at the time. You really dive deep into some of the darker history of what the Nazis started trying to do technologically and weapons-wise, you're not far off from the ideas that you see in this movie, to be honest with you. Like, and in fact, you know, the I don't think many people realize that Germany during World War II made the first jet engine. So not I don't know if it's the first jet engine. I don't I want to make sure I'm correct about that. But when during uh any of the aerial battles that we had, they had the first jets, though. You know, the aerial battles at the time, they were very superior because there were planes and stuff they had. In fact, anything out of Germany was like more superior. There, they had a brand of tank that was much stronger than ours. It was just about the resilience and our style of fighting and overwhelming them at the time, is why we were able to win, which is great because we needed to win that. But yeah, so there's so there's actually some truth into this seeking you know harder, crazier weapons and even having belief in some supernatural behind it, you know, that that the Nazis even tried to discover, you know. There's some real dark stuff out there, guys. You find that they were getting into.

SPEAKER_01 1:58:46

So well, uh let's let's just dive right in, shall we? Yeah, gentlemen. Um, so I will read for you Act One, sure, and then we'll get into everything about it. So, the making of Captain America. During World War II, Steve Rogers is a small, frail young man from Brooklyn who desperately wants to serve his country despite repeated rejection from the military. His courage and selflessness, uh selflessness, sorry, impresses Dr. Abraham Erkstein, close enough, who recruits him for the Super Soldier program. Steve undergoes the experiment and emerges transformed into Captain America. Moments later, Erkstein is assassinated by a Hydra spy, leaving Steve as the only successful super soldier. Meanwhile, Johan Schmidt, the Red Skull, uses a Tesseract to power Hydra's floor machine. So, my brother Ike, what worked for you in this scene?

SPEAKER_05 1:59:47

So, what worked in this segment is I love uh this beginning stuff. I like the the repertoire between Steve and Bucky in the beginning. I like just how he is. I like seeing him that I gotta tell you, the special effects on making him look smaller, fantastic. Oh, hell up so good. I always wondered, I actually wondered how silly that was gonna look. And man, it looks great. Well, man, he looks like it's him, you know. And I love seeing the origin, or the first time you hear him say, you know, I can do this all day. You know what I mean? Like it's one of my favorite things that he does. Um, yeah, that worked for me a lot. I enjoyed that. What also worked for me was the surprise of Abraham. How do you say it? Ericsson? Erickson? Erickson?

SPEAKER_04 2:00:35

Erkstein.

SPEAKER_05 2:00:35

Erkstein. Yeah, so I like him because he means Stanley Tushi, man. Like, what an actor. You want to talk about getting grade A talent, man. Woo wee, he's so good. And I it just that was believable. You know, I I like that he overhears them talking and gets him interested. I like that Steve is by chance in the right place at the right time. Though that worked for me. That was believable. Sometimes you think, eh, maybe that was no. It actually worked for me a lot. Um, does this yeah? And when we first uh this is the first we when we first meet uh Red Skull in the beginning, what a great this meeting within the church there with oh man, Hugo weaving all day, eats the screen up. Holy Lord, he's so good, guys. He does so good in everything he does, and and you see it, you're like, okay, this guy is a scary bad because he's gonna talk to you like he's your friend before he shoots you. Like you might think you're gonna live, but yeah, yeah, you know what I mean? Like he's he'll give you a little hope just to take it away. And and I like him. And you almost feel like you could negotiate with him. And what's neat about it is you actually probably could, um, only if he's getting what he wants. Yes. If he doesn't get what he wants, it's over. But if he gets what he wants, he might actually let you go. Really, you know, you might be able to get get it away with it. Most likely. You know what I mean? But but like once again, it all depends. Like he, yeah, it's definitely the he treads a neat line that makes you feel uncomfortable, and but yet still, you know, it's very vulnerable feeling at the same time, you know. Um yeah, I and I like I I just I love training montages, you know, and the introduction of Tommy Lee Jones, ladies and gentlemen. The great Tommy Lee Jones. Anytime you hear his voice, it's commanding, it's perfect for the role that he's in. You you can't get any better than that sometimes, you know. And I like that he's part of this whole program of looking for this guy to do this, you know, because it's not just he's in any unit. The unit that he's in is a unit to prove that you can be the super soldier that they're gonna be. And even none of those guys really have no idea what they're talking about until we until we get there and we see it happen. So, and of course, we get that in this, you know, him turning the cat into cat. So that's awesome. Some of that stuff is cool, and the action sequence afterwards is real fun, and the action's great, and you get to see him learn what he's capable of as he's doing it, finding out he can run fast, seeing how high he can jump, you know, and and just learning what he's like, you know. And I love when the kid gets thrown into the water, he's like, Yeah, I can swim, just go ahead. Exactly. You know, it's a it's a great yeah, you skip past the trope that always happens, you know, and and it's a lot of fun, you know. And we will revisit this scene later for different reasons, but I definitely for what we're talking about here, I mean it it does work. It's a good time. What you're seeing works a lot. Um, yeah. When it comes down to well, how about for you, Sam? Let's go with you. What worked for you before we go? What does work for you?

SPEAKER_01 2:03:43

Like I've said, and you're gonna hear me say this. I know I've said this in the last episode, I'll keep saying it because this is the beginning of the MCU. Whenever you're doing an origin movie, it really is not that hard to tell the story. Because most of these characters, the reason why we love them and they're popular, is because they had such a kick-butt origin that they became very popular in the comics that Marvel would even consider them given their own solo film. So uh it's hard to uh make a movie like this and uh get it wrong when the characters are already well written. It makes some creative liberties go ahead, but other than that, uh I think this for this movie in particular, I think it was really well done. Yep. They really made you believe one, the practical effects and visual effects so early on with making Chris Evans look like this tiny little dude. So good. Oh my gosh, I'm I'm blown away. We are seeing as we're talking about right now, some of it is on our screen that we have a play in the background, so it's just kind of cool as we're talking about. We could revisit some things as we're uh discussing it. And it's it's crazy how they make him look. It's just I I can't get over the practical effects that they do with him. And this isn't even in the the AI time that we have now or anything where you could say this was that. This is literally people doing creative things to make him look small. So it really was believable. It was really good casting Chris Evans.

SPEAKER_05 2:05:10

So good, yeah, genius.

SPEAKER_01 2:05:12

Yeah, I I liked it. I think that was really cool. I did think at the time, from what I do remember being young and watching this, that was bold because I knew him from the Fantastic Four films. So part of me thought, ooh, how are you casting Johnny Storm and Steve Rogers? Is that gonna work? Guys, it works. It works really well. I love when we get into Deadpool 3 and how that gets into it a little bit. Oh, yeah. Like, ooh, that couldn't have happened if it wasn't built this way. That's right, that's right. Chris Evans, what a what a man, what a superstar how he is able to do this because he he jacked up for this role. Yeah, my gosh. Part of me is thinking, is that where the practical effects come in? But then you find out that was actually just him. Yeah, probably the biggest he ever is is him. Yes, I agree.

SPEAKER_05 2:05:58

Almost ridiculous. Yeah. I was almost like, you might be too big.

SPEAKER_01 2:06:02

It reminds me of Thor from Love and Thunder, where he got he just got like, if you could believe he could get amped up, he did. And this is like, whoa.

SPEAKER_05 2:06:11

Yeah, I even think that it's kind of like, okay, Chris, next time you don't need even quite as big. But that's all my shit. He was too good. It's like, holy lord, guys.

SPEAKER_01 2:06:21

Like, look at this guy, he's a monster.

SPEAKER_04 2:06:22

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:06:23

I I love where he's the uh what's his name? Dr. Abraham looks at him and says that you feel comfortable, and he's like, It's a little big. Uh-oh, wait a minute, it won't be big. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Anyways, uh, it did it was really cool. I loved how they show uh New York City with them going to the uh carnival. And it's it was basically Bucky's last night before he was gonna be shipped out. That's right.

SPEAKER_05 2:06:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:06:49

And uh it was supposed to be like this double date thing, although Steve kept bailing on him because he just really wants to get in the army. Um, just can't wait. But showing Howard Stark's introduction, and then you got to see, okay, this is where Tony gets it from. Yeah, it's so good. The acting, the actor. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_05 2:07:05

You know, may I say, even though we saw a different actor play him in the others, obviously he's older, which is I you can even kind of say I could see the likeness as he gets older. He, this guy, this actor I noticed in draw, I'll bring it up in the other ones too, because I wasn't gonna bring it up later, but you just said to him, said his name, so I gotta say it. He actually does a really good job at having the mannerisms of Tony's dad from those videos that you saw in Iron Man 2. I'm like, wow, just the way he talks and says things just right, where you're like, okay, he actually studied that guy, yeah, and you can see that's that guy younger, you know. He's like a nicer Tony Stark.

SPEAKER_00 2:07:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 2:07:42

You know, he's still that kind of arrogant jerk kind of, but he's nice when Tony's kind of a jerk, more of just a jerk.

SPEAKER_01 2:07:49

Yeah, yeah. But it's just, it's just, it's a nice little like hint of a bigger universe. It's just so cool. Yeah. So cool. Anyways, um, I like this. I like this first scene, uh uh, first act, I should say. So um I've I feel like what worked for me the most was setting up the character for who Steve Rogers is and why he really is already a hero before taking the Super Soldier serum. It's really well done. And the moment I'll say that that is that really stuck out to me is when um and I know we're gonna mention it later because I know I wrote it down. Um actually I wrote down in this same thing for my standout moment is when um Tommy Lee Jones's character, by the way, great casting. Oh man. Tommy Lee Jones, you are a legend, dude. You are so good. I love your films. You just uh I I actually would have been disappointed if they did this movie without him in it, just because he just fits it so well.

SPEAKER_05 2:08:43

I could watch Tommy Lee Jones read a book to me.

SPEAKER_01 2:08:46

Oh my gosh. So good. One of my favorite films outside of Marvel is Volcano, then he's a star in it. Yeah, it's probably one of my top ten favorite films just of all time.

SPEAKER_05 2:08:57

I'm a big fugitive fan and him and Harrison Ford. Oh stuff. If you know the reference, you know what he said. I don't care. You know what I'm talking about. Tommy Lee Jones.

SPEAKER_01 2:09:07

He's he's he's really good at the jokes in this film. He does it really well. He plays that good type of uh that that general that's a little like a grouchy general that has good quick whips about it that is they're entertaining, but also they're that drive a point. They're really good.

SPEAKER_05 2:09:24

The best part about his sense of humor is he doesn't ever tell a joke, he just knows when his seriousness makes it funny.

SPEAKER_00 2:09:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 2:09:32

So like when this guy says this, you say he knows I can say it just like I would normally say that at this moment, and that's when it's gonna be funny. And he just knows it. It's so good. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:09:43

Yeah, it's so good. But I love it when he throws the dummy, the the dummy grenade, the fake grenade. And this is where uh I say it worked for me for Steve Rogers in particular. Why I just love him as a character, even before the Super Soldier serum, everyone else ducked and tried to run away from that grenade because they thought it was a live grenade. Steve jumped on it. This little dude that if this grenade blows up, he's not saving anybody because he could like blow away in the wind. Still, that just it just shows his character and he's just that guy. Yeah, he's just and doesn't matter how small he is, his heart is so much bigger, his courage, his bravery is so much bigger, his determination, his tenacity is so good. That that's where I'm like, this is this is to amp this up into the super soldier serum that we see in act one.

SPEAKER_05 2:10:39

I tell you, this is that's your standout moment for sure.

SPEAKER_01 2:10:42

Yeah, I yeah, for me, that is my standout moment.

SPEAKER_05 2:10:44

Yeah, no, it's a good one.

SPEAKER_01 2:10:45

That's like the that's the character defining moment for me that echoes throughout all the rest of the time that you see Steve Rogers' captain.

SPEAKER_05 2:10:53

It's funny you say that because my standout moment is similar. Um, in fact, that was on that was I was juggling, this was for a while gonna be that. Because it is, it speaks to who he is, which is kind of funny because that's always what he's preaching differently later, right? You know, what's he say to Vision later? It's like we don't trade lives for lives, even though he's very willing to trade a life for a life, which he still is even at the end of this movie. Um, but I was like, okay, yeah, other things that happen in this that do show further on, like who he is as Steve Rodgers, not only is he the good guy, and not only is he is he going to be the one that makes that decision to jump on the grenade, so to say, if that means he'll risk everything to do what's gotta be done. It also shows that just beyond the goodness of him, that he's so smart. He's a very smart man. He's not just a good guy making good decisions, selfless, all these awesome things that this doctor saw in him. He's also a very smart guy. And I love the scene with the flagpole when they're all trying to get up it, and he just kind of stands back looking at it. Because when you think in the future wise, when you think of you need a guy like this that can look at a situation and go, what's the best way to solve this problem? And he just walks over and unhooks it and it drops. He's using his weakness that he knows he has and factoring into what he has to get done, and he goes and gets it done. That determination also is something that I think speaks volumes to who Steve Rogers is and why he's good as Captain America, which I think is why we have trouble with all these other actors trying to be him or the thought of replacing him, because they if you don't have that determination or you don't have that that know-all or that know-how to do that and keep the calmness to do it, and you keep your head about you, even when you know you're the weakest one in the group, then you're going to resort to violence and making bad decisions. We saw Walker do it in uh uh the show as you know, Walmart Captain America. So it it that I I'm gonna say that for my standout moment for that reason, because it's like this is another side of him that is just as real as this one is. Because yours is a perfect standout moment as well. And I I think they go hand in hand in what speaks to who he is as a person and how it carries throughout the whole thing, you know, and what he's willing to do and how he's willing to use his head. You know what I'm saying? I just love you because I pulse a pan and the flag hits the ground.

SPEAKER_01 2:13:24

I love how he's like he's heavy breathing from it because they all were just running, and that's that was a challenge. First person to get this flag off the flagpole and give it to give it to us, and you can take a ride with Peggy on the way back to camp. All these guys are trying to jump on, trying to climb and all that, and then they all walk away because they realize they can't do it. He is still huffing and puffing because he's like the last one there because he's the weakest among them. He just holds the pin, falls down, he grabs it. He's still huffing and puffing with his mouth open, throws it in, he's like, and he sits right in there, like, I did it.

SPEAKER_05 2:13:54

Yeah, and it kind of and it and it throws that theme out there that we see throughout the movies going forward that in his eyes, there's always a way somehow. You just gotta find it. Yeah, you know, and even if you fail at finding it, you look for it because it's there, and that's what we get. It's how we get ending. Yeah, yeah, there's always a way, right? And yeah, it's great. What a great scene!

SPEAKER_01 2:14:14

Oh, yeah. So good. So out of all this that we talked about and all the high praise we gave it, is there anything in this first act you would say that didn't work for you at all? Absolutely.

SPEAKER_05 2:14:24

I I have to tell you, I'm watching this movie, and this is coming from a guy who's seen a bunch of stuff, guys. And I really, really hold story and like continuity, and gravitas or what you would call verimilitude, is something that is very important. And for the life of me, I can't understand what these two assassins were trying to do when they killed this doctor. You got a hydra guy who sends out these dudes to kill the doctor, not only kill the doctor, but steal the serum. And you decide to do it when they do their test, when they're all on duty, everybody's there, everything's going on. So we're gonna do it now, and then they do it, and there's this huge, awesome chase, all the action stuff is worth it. And for the guy to get to a one-person sub, so you're telling me so your whole plan was to two guys are gonna attack, do all this stuff, get away, but one's still gonna stay and die because there's only a one-person sub that is in the in the water waiting for him to get away. I don't know. It's just it felt this is where this movie went to Indiana Jones for me. Where it's like, okay, this is the convenience of what we need to do, and it's gonna look good enough and be a fun enough action sequence that you're just gonna forget that this doesn't make any sense. Because if you're gonna go assassinate this guy and take his serum, why don't you do it the night before when he's laying in his bed? These guys are so dangerous and scary. And I get it, story guys, I get it. I understand that I know that that might be being nitpicky, and this it is kind of nitpicky, but it's just for some reason I couldn't get out of my head. I'm looking at this like, man, this action sequence is awesome, and that's why it's hard to take points away from it because we needed a sequence like this to see him be in Captain America for the first time. But I'm just kind of like, yeah, but at the expense of like what? Of any kind of logic making any kind of sense, you know? And this isn't the first time this movie does this for me, but this is definitely a moment in it that made me go, oh, this is a weird, unnecessary moment in this, but yet still necessary. I just wish the writers would have thought it through a little more.

SPEAKER_01 2:16:32

Because I feel like so the only thing I would say about the scene that um to address your what didn't work for you for that is I wonder, I think that they the spies wanted to know if that actually was working. So they wanted to see I can understand that. They wanted to see him emerge and look like the super soldier, and then of course they had bombs planted, so they were all ready to take on this whole thing.

SPEAKER_05 2:16:59

Yeah, they're so infiltrated to set bombs, but you know what I'm saying? Yeah, I don't know. It just felt a little sloppy.

SPEAKER_00 2:17:05

I get it, I get it.

SPEAKER_05 2:17:06

Um and they still only plan for one guy to get away.

SPEAKER_01 2:17:09

Yeah, yeah, almost like that. Which I do agree to that. I because uh from my understanding, yes, it was a one-man sub, but it was uh so was the other guy just gonna be like, well, we got here, see you.

SPEAKER_05 2:17:23

Yeah, well, I want to bite the sign. Uh now maybe that was the plan, maybe we I you can say a lot of maybes, but guys, it's if it's not showing, we don't know, right? And that's kind of not saying you have to be that way, but you can't leave up to the audience to assume that that's kind of how that was going. I can give you that they wanted to see the serum work. Yeah, and that's why they chose that moment. Cool.

SPEAKER_01 2:17:42

And that's what they're doing.

SPEAKER_05 2:17:42

But their getaway was what, jump in a car and drive away? You know, come on, drive away from a military institution in the middle of the city where it's probably got all the guards in the world, including someone that just came out that's probably a super soldier, like your boss, and you're gonna outrun him and get away. Yeah, I don't know. It just felt a little it was just we need an action sequence, so this will work. And it did. It did its job.

SPEAKER_01 2:18:05

It was very dramatic. Yeah, it did its job. The emotional part of seeing the doctor die, Steve holding him since he's dying, and he he points to like it's why it shows you what's in here type of thing.

SPEAKER_05 2:18:16

I have zero problem with what we saw. It just when I think story-wise, I'm like, huh. Kind of tough. And that dad gave me that Indiana Jones tickle, which there's good Indiana Jones movies and there's bad ones, and it it it reminds me of the bad ones. So, but that's it. Other than that, it's fantastic. It is creative though that he used the lighter.

SPEAKER_01 2:18:37

Oh, yeah, it's awesome. The lighter never lights up, but that is like the remote.

SPEAKER_05 2:18:42

Very yeah, a lot of good stuff.

SPEAKER_01 2:18:43

It is kind of cool.

SPEAKER_05 2:18:44

Yeah, yep. Oh, yeah. Like I said, it's it's not necessarily what we got out of it, it's just why we got it. It's kind of uh why'd we do that, you know?

SPEAKER_01 2:18:54

Well, for me, I I I can't say anything negative about this first part. Just that's just me. I didn't I thought things worked out for me. But what would you give your overall score though of the first act?

SPEAKER_05 2:19:06

I give it a solid eight, for sure, for that reason.

SPEAKER_01 2:19:09

Okay, all right. Yeah, and I, of course, being as uh just like it's okay. Just like Americans saying I love you, but I'm giving it a 10 out of 10. We throw that around sometimes a little too casually, but I I love it.

SPEAKER_05 2:19:25

Yeah, hey, I mean it's trust me, guys. I I I didn't I I don't go into it looking for these things to complain about. Yeah, it's I'm just gonna speak what sticks out to me. And there's even a scene in the movie I think is the best movie in the world that I would tell you it doesn't need to be in a movie. And it still makes it the best movie, I think, in the world. But there's still one scene that you just didn't need. So like I'm I will always be honest, you know what I mean? And that's so that's how we're gonna go. That movie is Dark Phoenix guys. Oh, yeah, it's a masterpiece. You know, it's a masterclass on the best filmmaking you ever want to do. You know, if you want to know how to make great filmmaking, Dark Phoenix. Oh it's I'd rather film Dog Poop.

SPEAKER_01 2:20:12

What which which movie would you rather, or which show or project would you rather She-Hulk or Dark Phoenix?

SPEAKER_05 2:20:19

Oh Lord. That's not even a fair question. I'm gonna say She-Hulk.

SPEAKER_01 2:20:25

At least they had a little more comic accuracy to a degree.

SPEAKER_05 2:20:28

Yeah, well, and it doesn't break my heart because She-Hulk to me is is a fun character, but nobody I I really loved. When I see what they do to someone in Dark Phoenix, it's like there's only one thing in Dark Phoenix I enjoy. And that's the sad part, just one thing. Wait till we wait till we review that guy's. It's only one thing I'm gonna say nice about that movie. So I'm gonna save that though until we get there.

SPEAKER_01 2:20:53

Oh yeah. We'll get there. You stay tuned. All right, why don't you read to us Act Two?

SPEAKER_05 2:20:58

Yeah, Act Two. Okay, so the rising conflict, okay, from Symbol the Soldier. Rather than being sent into battle, Steve is used as a propaganda mascot selling war bonds. Frustrated, he takes matters into his own hands after learning his friend Bucky Barnes may be alive behind enemy lines. Steve successfully rescues Bucky and other P.O.W.s, proving himself a combat, uh proving himself in combat. He then forms a the Hollowing Commandos with Bucky and begins leading missions against Hydra strongholds across Europe. As Steve becomes a real wartime leader, he grows closer to Peggy Carter while Red Skull prepares a final global strike. So, Samuel. What worked for you in this? And did the pacing hold on, we'll go over both those questions.

SPEAKER_01 2:21:58

Okay. Alright. Uh what worked for me was seeing that Steve Rogers in all reality, he is a natural leader. He's a just a natural-born leader. No one had to train him to be a captain, so to speak. He and I what I love about this, it's funny, I wrote this as part of what I didn't like too, but at the same time, the more I think about it, the more I could appreciate it a little bit more for Captain America. How do you make the title and the suit of Captain America not seem too corny and silly? Well, Marvel's like just play into the corny and silly, and then that just became his persona for being in combat. And it's it's really kind of cool. So um I like that he is like a natural-born leader and will strategically take it upon himself to go behind enemy lines and do what he feels feels is right. Um, that was great to see in that sequence. That everyone was telling him you can't do much of anything. And they're they were not only throwing him out of the military because Tommy Lee Jones's character, the the colonel, was like, I asked for an army, you're just one soldier, I can't use you. And yeah, some senator was like, Well, you'd be great for propaganda, which funny enough that they did this because that specific way, because Captain America, the character in the comics, came out during World War II. And he was made through timely comics that later became known as Marvel Comics from the great godfather of them all, Stan Lee. And um he was kind of the in real life propaganda piece for kids during the war with comic books. So to make it where they're they turned him into that in the movie, and it is a perfect way of giving an excuse to give the the outfit the way he looks and the title and things like that, and put a face for people to see what a soldiers could look like type thing or what they're doing. Yep. I you know, the more I think about that, even though it's a little corny, I think it was strategically done that way. I think that was a great compliment to what originally had happened um in real life. So I think that was kind of cool. Um so there's a lot I that I liked about this. I like that he decided to take matters into his own hands, and I like that his relationship with Bucky, you you could tell it's a genuine friendship. We were talking earlier about um on this podcast about like uh the Toby McGuire, Peter Parker, and how his friendship with Harry Osborne played by James Franco felt genuine and deserved more so, which probably is a hot tick to people watching this, than Tom Hollins, Peter Parker, and Ned. That their their oops, sorry, their brotherly relationship was a lot more authentic. And I think that you see the same thing between Steve Rogers and Bucky Mars. Their brotherly roles to each other were very authentic. Bucky still was friends with this little dweeby guy, even though he knows that he wants to go into the war. He actually, funny enough, you don't hear people ever be envious of going in of wanting to go into service. Yeah, it's pretty rare. But only during this time period do you hear that? Yeah, only during this time period. And that's why I think Steve is such an interesting character in and of itself, is that it's it's not just it's kind of like what happened in real life to America after 9-11. That there's this feeling of patriotism where it doesn't matter what your strengths or weaknesses are, you want to see, you see an evil that's happening, and you want to be part of the change to correct it. And that's what Steve really is during World War II at that time. We hear that in real life with so many um brave men and women in uh the US's armed forces nowadays that um got into the the Iraq war because of how strongly passionate and patriotic they were after seeing our country get attacked. It didn't matter what color you were or what aisle political aisle you're on. And the same thing with Captain America. It we didn't need to know if Captain America was a Democrat or Republican. We didn't need to know if he was um uh racist or not. He's not, but you know, we we didn't need to know all those extra little stuff that we like to divide ourselves with. There was one common thing, and he just wanted to serve his country, and he got to do it now in two different ways. One as this propaganda thing that helps sell sell these uh bonds, I believe. Yeah that would um help them with more bullet manufacturing and things like that. So he helped in both the propaganda part and then actually going in and leading and saving so many American lives. That's so cool.

SPEAKER_04 2:26:52

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:26:52

The patriotism is dripping within this movie. And as someone like me was very patriotic for my country, and just so happens to be the same country that Captain America is, it it just made me love it even more.

SPEAKER_05 2:27:04

So what didn't work for you?

SPEAKER_01 2:27:07

What there was not much, honestly. Yeah, it's fine. I would say the the the propaganda stuff that I I see now in retrospect the necessity of them filming it and doing it the way it is. But if I was watching the movie, I feel like I don't need to see that part. It never played any consequences later on, other than just a creative way of him getting his outfit. Yeah. Um, which was like PJs, but his really was, yeah, yeah. And of course, wardrobe during that time making a superhero outfit, uh I'll I'll give you some slack there because ironically, in this same movie, his own suit upgrades by the end of the movie. Oh, for sure. Which is so cool to see in one movie, you know? Yep. Um it kind of reverts back in the first Avengers movie, unfortunately. But uh oh well, we'll get to that when we get to that. But for this movie, um it was the propaganda stuff, maybe it was a little bit too much. It was cool to watch, but it wasn't consequential. So I'd say, uh that I could go about that. That's the best way I can say it. What about you? Uh or oh, the pacing. You asked me the pacing. Yeah, yeah. There definitely were times where it felt like it was slow during the second act. Um, I think it's because they crammed so much into the first act that there is a lot, yeah. Yeah, what were they gonna flesh out in the second act to make us stay engaged? I wasn't bored at all, so I'm gonna say that the pacing would hold up for me because of that. But that's probably because I was already invested in the character and just want to see more screen time where I can see if you're just a casual moviegoer and MCU goer and Captain America just isn't your guy, but he's he is the guy you're gonna be watching type thing. I could see where that would have been a pacing issue for someone. So I there are definitely boat points in it. Okay. But for me personally, I think I held up. Yeah, yeah. What worked for you in the same way?

SPEAKER_05 2:29:01

So, what worked for me is the propaganda stuff. I actually really enjoy this stuff. I think it's uh it's not something I you know thought I would enjoy, but when I watch this movie, that it makes me smile, it makes me laugh. It's fun seeing him struggle with it because you you you feel like you're getting to know him personally in in those moments too. And it's so over the top. And that's I think that's what's silly about it. You know, and then later, like when you see in like Spider-Man when he does those videos they show in gym where he's talking about, you know, who do you like to exercise kids? It reminds me of the propaganda stuff where where it's like as bad as he didn't like it, then he still went and made these videos. Like he's he's like he's still a guy that gets that this means something, you know, and and he'll always be that. So like I I like that it that works for me a lot, you know. And and uh once again, more stuff that worked for me was the stuff with Tony's dad. I love every scene he's in with them. I do, and I enjoy that um a lot. Uh what let's see, my the pacing was good, you know. This that's why I like this. I like the propaganda stuff. I like the idea of him being put in the back, and I think the pacing of that is great, and I think it it holds up to where it's supposed to go. And he does his old Captain America thing where he's being given orders that he knows is ridiculous and he knows he can make a difference, and when it comes down to Bucky, he's gonna do the opposite and go save his friend. I know some people think that that's something that gets repeated, but in the repeating of it in the three different movies that he has, it's all different reasons. And it's but it's all for the same purpose that talk about this is Bucky always ends up being that conduit of the person that's gonna get the short end of the stick, whether it's being left behind as a POW in this one, or whether it's being just you know, knowing that he's a good guy that's being controlled in the next one. And then same with you know civil war, where it's like we can't let the government do this to him just because they want to control us, and he's gonna be the one they use the example of, right? So it's it's it tends to be Bucky ends up being the one that takes the brunt of this stuff, and Bucky's just lucky he's got a friend like Steve, man. You know, and and Steve is just gonna do what he's gonna do. Um, so yeah, that all held up for me. What didn't work for me uh in this, um I would have to say I'm not a big fan of the chemistry between him and Peggy. You know, I don't have a problem with them having it. Um why I don't have a problem with it is because obviously at the end of everything, I like that that's his conclusion that he gets with her, and I like that they have it. I believe that there's something there. I just I don't know, she comes off as too uh brash for me. And you know, and I I would just say at those moments I didn't feel the emotional connection. I wouldn't say it's detrimental, but it just didn't work to the point I think they want you to feel it. It's the idea of him having someone that he loves that worked in the future for me rather than their actual chemistry.

SPEAKER_00 2:32:02

You know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_01 2:32:03

I dare I say this, and this could be a hot take, is that I find um uh Tony and Hepper's relationship more often. Way more than Hetty and Steve. Only because when you watch this movie, to piggyback off what you just said, is that um that most of the time she's looking at him in somewhat admiration and just like like I'm looking out for you as type of figure, then more of a romantic interest. And then when you do find out yeah, he's he's flirting with her, I'm gonna take you to a dance, and you still owe me a dance and all that stuff.

SPEAKER_05 2:32:39

He gives me big big brother vibes.

SPEAKER_01 2:32:42

It's funny how old that that's something that he just has a flame for. At the very end of the movie, you find out he really has the flame for her, and then he holds on to for so long that it's nice, like you said, when you get to endgame and you get a payout for it, but it's hard for me to believe that is your love of your life type thing.

SPEAKER_05 2:33:00

Right. Yeah, we only care because we care that he gets it. Yes, we don't care that it's her, and he deserves it, right?

SPEAKER_01 2:33:07

But it it wasn't where it had to be her.

SPEAKER_05 2:33:10

Yeah, it didn't feel like that satisfaction of oh, it's oh and and she gets it too. No, I just care that he got a good story ending. Yeah, that he got the love of his life. As weird as that sounds, and it might be the only time I can think of in film history for me personally that that works. It still works, even though it's one-sided. You know, because often it's like, well, I could give a crap about one of these, which makes a whole love story go to crap, right? But with this, I really don't care about Peggy. I really don't. Like, I see why she's standout. I think she's a great actress. I don't have a problem with it. I that's like watching her when she kicks butt. You know, I I like seeing her later when we see her in other things. But uh ultimately, though, it's like their relationship, though. I just didn't feel like you know, he could have fallen in love with somebody else, and I still would have been just as happy for him at the end, as long as he was able to get that story that he wanted, that he like Tony said, You should have had a life. Go get a life, and he did. And and it's with Peggy, of course, but yeah, it didn't it didn't matter. It was just he got it. That's all I cared about. Um, best character moment for me is Red Skull and him meeting on when they rescue Bucky and now Red Skull is awesome in this moment when he first takes his mask off and throws his face off and throws it into the fire and he just didn't he reveal just the way he talks, his dialogue, the way he holds himself, it's not over the top, but yeah, it's almost over the top, it can't be enough. And Steve, well, why are you running then? And the door is closed. I'm like, that's a great scene. And like, I just that's my favorite character. I specifically for Red Skull, but also for everybody involved at that time. But Red Skull, specifically, I'm like, yeah, you're I like this guy. I like this bad guy a lot.

SPEAKER_01 2:34:48

No, he's he's a really yeah the I agree with you that the face reveal, the practical effects that they did, because that's all practical effects, too. I don't think any of that was CGI. I think they it's hard to tell if there is because if I remember right, I think some of the behind-the-scenes footage of some of this is him Hugo weaving, sitting in there and putting on all the prosthetics to make it knows the way to do it.

SPEAKER_05 2:35:11

Yeah, they might have some touch-ups in CGI, but yeah, but overall, oh my. There's a stylistic, there's a style to this movie that I have a love-hate relationship with. Where this style works is in those moments, like in all the high-tech hydro gear stuff and the giant plane wheel and how everything's way bigger than it should be, and how the weapons and and how he looks and acts, that works in this style. Some of the other times it doesn't for me. Like with the good guys, I don't care for the style. I uh the action in this is mediocre. In this, this might be part of the what doesn't work for me. It's it's the actions, it's not bad, but it's not stand out. And the stylistic part of it is it's more showy. Which is I get it. That's Indiana Jones, and that's what they're going for. It just didn't sit with me well. So that's where I go with that.

SPEAKER_01 2:36:05

My favorite character moment it involves a little bit of what you what you just said. Uh yours was very more specific. I think my more specific part, it's within the same scene to a degree, and same part. It's Steve infiltrating the um where the prisoners were by himself, who has no military experience to do any of this stuff.

SPEAKER_04 2:36:28

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:36:29

It's just like I said, it comes back to this natural-born leader thing where he learns how to be quick on his feet.

SPEAKER_05 2:36:35

Yeah, I agree.

SPEAKER_01 2:36:35

He's it's like he's what I like about it is that it's not one of those films where he becomes a superhero and you have to watch him struggle to learn how to be that. It's almost like it's a natural instinct in him already. It's just those that super soldier serum enhance them where he can do it, execute things in the way he's thinking in his head. We don't have to go through this montage of him learning, oh, I gotta jump super high, or learning, oh, I can run super fast. It just happens because it's in the moment. I love that stuff. I think that's really cool. You don't have to explain his training because he doesn't need any training. You know, it's just he knew what honestly, if he didn't have the super soldier serum, he probably would have done the same thing. He just couldn't break down the door, you know, do those other stuff that only the super strength could have. He'd he'd have tried anyways.

SPEAKER_00 2:37:24

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:37:24

He just now he's able to do it. Yeah, jumping out of the plane like the way he did in the beginning of the whole thing when he wasn't it wasn't his time yet. Pecky wanted to get him closer. Like that's completely all just Steve. And it just it works so well for him. And it's just it's a great reminder of you don't want this guy going after you.

SPEAKER_05 2:37:43

No, yeah, it's yeah, because he will know how he's gonna find a way. Yeah, yeah. He'll be nice about it, but also you can he can do this all day.

SPEAKER_01 2:37:54

Yeah, so um that's that's probably my favorite character moment is him demonstrating in action his natural abilities, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 2:38:02

Agreed, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:38:02

Being a leader and finding his friend. He was the only one that believes that was alive, and he found him.

SPEAKER_05 2:38:08

And yeah, his friend is like, Who that uh you were smaller, but he accepts it real quick.

SPEAKER_01 2:38:13

Well, what what was the I'm trying to remember the line? Bucky says, Oh, uh, oh, what what happened to you? And he says, I joined the army.

SPEAKER_05 2:38:21

Yeah, it's like right after Bucky's like, is it permanent? And he's like, So far.

SPEAKER_01 2:38:25

Yeah, yeah. That's pretty cool.

SPEAKER_05 2:38:27

It's like their banter's great. They're great.

SPEAKER_01 2:38:28

That's the one thing about this before we get into that final act there, about the the movie overall, is that one of the cool things that we start noticing in Marvel films, they didn't have to push the funny because it was just a there's some natural things, you're right, yep, in the character work. Yep, yep. And this movie's a great example of you easily could have labeled this as like a half comedy adventure. And it wasn't heavy in comedy, but when the comedy came and it it landed, it landed. Like when it was dealt, it landed.

SPEAKER_05 2:39:00

Because it didn't feel like a joke, it felt very, very real, authentic, yes, between two people.

SPEAKER_01 2:39:05

Yeah, that's one of the things I think a lot of the films now when they're trying to say, oh, we have to put comedy in there, I feel like it's more of an effort, or this is just so effortless because just like natural banner, what you said. Anyways, um, your score on act two.

SPEAKER_05 2:39:19

I give it an eight out of ten.

SPEAKER_01 2:39:20

Okay. I did the same thing.

SPEAKER_05 2:39:22

Yep, very solid.

SPEAKER_01 2:39:23

Yep. All right, I will read uh the final act, the climax. Okay, the sacrifice and the man out of time. Holy moly. After Bucky is seemingly killed during a train mission, Steve launches a final assault on Hydra's headquarters and boards Red Skull's massive bomb. During their confrontation, Red Skull is seemingly consumed by the Tesserax energy. Realizing the plane is armed and weapons bound for major cities, Steve chooses to crash it into the Arctic, sacrificing himself to save millions. He later awakens in the modern day, where Nick Fury informs him he has been asleep for nearly 70 years, making Steve a man out of time. Alright, Ike, did the ending land for you? Why or why not?

SPEAKER_05 2:40:13

Hmm. I have mixed feelings on this, folks. This is where the movie goes off the rails, aren't we? Um I will the ending lands. I like him sacrificing himself into the ice because it still contradicts him later, but it doesn't contradict him. It's he doesn't want to see anyone ever give at their expense for his life, but he is very willing to give his. Um, so it's very, it's kind of it's it's a it's a positive contradiction, is what I'd like to call it. Um so I dig that about him. That ultimately in the end he gave his life for millions of people's lives, you know. So later when he's kind of like arguing with the robot like vision, you kind of want to look at him and say, Steve, he is just a robot. But anyway, but but it's like, but that's Steve's heart, though. He's like, if it's not me dying, then you can't. Not fair, because I'm going to be the one. Then he's also a guy that he's out of place his whole entire life. So if I anyways, I I often will argue later on, and when we get to other movies, that Steve feels like his time has come and gone, and he's on borrowed time as it is, so he's very almost willing to go the extra mile all the time because technically he should have been gone a long time ago. But very similar to another character that we've been talking about, like Iron Man, right? Wink. That's why it's so good, those two, anyways, because it's it's the same coin, but you know, but from different directions. So uh yeah, that yeah, the ending landed for me. Yeah, I will say that. Um, and I and I love the him waking up seven years later. Great ending. Because not only is it like now we're present day, boom, there it is, hits you right in the face, and then getting Sam Jackson like that. Sweet, you know what I mean? Like it's just one step closer to this group movie that we can't wait to see. Excuse me, that we can't wait to see. So, yeah, yes, the ending landed. The flight to the to the landing pad was a little rocky, but we'll talk about that as we go.

SPEAKER_01 2:42:13

I agree. Yeah. I honestly for for me, everything you just said is exactly how I felt. Exactly. I even wrote that down when it came to the ending land for me. I'm like, I have mixed, I have mixed feelings. I agree that how they did it, it was definitely well within his character. He will never let someone do it for him, he'll do it for you type thing. I love that he uh was frozen in the ice and then they found him and he woke up 70 years later. I think that's really cool. Very comic accurate, of course, which I love comic accuracy, and you need something like this to bring this type of into the Avengers. He is like the de facto leader of the Avengers, you gotta have him in there like this. I just have to say, and this maybe you could consider this a hot take for this scene or this act, but part of me is thinking, I think you could have jumped. But but I don't know. But if he was intending on, and this is not a nitpick, by the way. I loved it. I love how the scene played out. Yeah, I gave it a good score and everything. I love how when they made this choice of committing him to doing this type of sacrifice, it was well within character, nothing was deviated, so all great. But Parmi still thinks that there could have been a way where he's like, I'm just gonna let this nose dive, but I'm gonna jump out.

SPEAKER_04 2:43:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:43:32

And then it would have we wouldn't have gotten what we got, of course. So obviously that couldn't have happened, folks. But uh Parmi is thinking, I wonder if there was a way they could have made it where he was like stuck on the plane, something where he couldn't get out, so he chose to do the sacrifice.

SPEAKER_05 2:43:50

It's funny how we have issues with storyline things at the opposite ends of the movie. Where I have trouble with their the whole idea of him running to New York after the guys. It makes no sense. Here, I actually kind of took it as that was his his way of like, I'm gonna make sure this happens because it can't ever you this I can't jump out and then look over and see, oh no, the plane didn't crash deep enough or something crazy. He's gonna hold that throttle right down to the and he's gonna make sure it. I think it's more of just him following through. Because I agree with you, jump, dude. Like, just jump.

SPEAKER_01 2:44:26

It's already proven in this movie so far.

SPEAKER_05 2:44:28

You gotta jump out, you can you'll be fine. Survive. We'll we'll we'll work it out, right? Like you walk it off, you know what I mean? Like, but at the same time, it did kind of show, but you know, there's something that could have happened earlier in this part of this movie that would have made that feel more earned. And I will give you this it doesn't feel earned that he just stays in the plane and flies it into the ground into the wire. For sure. Although I do get that I'm gonna do this to make sure it's done. That I get. But it you could have done something earlier to to make that happen. And I'll get into that, I'll tell you that right now if you want. Um, my biggest issue is this Bucky died like a bitch. And I I think Bucky should have died saving his life. And if he sees Bucky doing something where Bucky did intentionally knowing he's gonna die doing it, it would have made more sense for him at the end to also be like, like my best friend, I'm gonna make sure this is gone. And then not only that, I feel that the poeticness of that would follow through into civil war. And why are you always protecting Bucky? It's like you don't understand. When I was a super soldier and he was still just a man, he saved my life on that train. But he didn't. It just falls like a bitch. And I I don't like Bucky going out that way. I know he comes back, I get it, but you don't know this when you're watching this movie, you know, and you don't know that's gonna happen. I mean, if you're a Marvel nerd and a comic book nerd, you know Bucky comes back eventually, and you know they're probably gonna save that and do that. It I think you'd have felt like it was earned if he felt like he was following in his friend's footsteps, where even he, that even Steve had to become a super soldier to be what he believes in the most. But he's still his friend, who's just a regular guy, he still can look up to his friend that's not a super soldier, that does that selfless sacrifice that later on is why he would save his life. Because the the it couldn't have happened to a better guy, is basically what he would say. I would like to think that in Steve's mind, Bucky is everything he wants to be. That's kind of what you get from the beginning of this movie. I'm not saying Bucky's as good of a man as Steve, but that's not how Steve feels. That's not how someone feels about their best friend. When they see their best friend, anything Steve ever probably has ever learned or been protected by or had any kind of life fun, like anything that he's learned in his life towards that in this age of the where he is in the beginning of this movie, is because of this best friend that he has, who's everything he wants to be. He sees and he's you're an able-bodied man that can go fight in this war, you know, that I wish I could. Not only that, but you're also part of this great group later on. You find out he's part of this great group of guys that kick a lot of ass and they don't die easy and they're hardcore. So not only that, Bucky is the man, man. Like Bucky's that guy. Bucky's the super soldier without the serum. And and I think it would have I think that moment would have been earned more if something was happening on that train and Bucky saw it going down. Maybe not realizing Steve would have survived, it wouldn't have mattered. Bucky sees his friend, might die from whatever is about to happen, and intentionally does something for that, for for him to take the blunt of whether it is a shot or a push off the train, or and they even almost like if I was filming it, it'd be almost like they make eye contact where he knows I'm doing this for you, you know? And it's like that would have that would have would have made mourning him more thoughtful, and it would have made his decision to fly that plane into the ice more understandable because he's gonna be like his friend, because he's gonna be that guy, because he's the one that had helped to be that guy when his friend was always that guy. And I just think that that what it's emotionally would have uplifted this movie for the end for me and given that that little bit of a taste because that's my biggest issue is Bucky just kind of and he's gone. And it's like a it's like an awful anytime the CGI was bad was right there. I'm like, man, he's just oh geez, it's just like a random guy just died, and I get it for the effect of later are you still alive? Cool, you know, I get that, but boy, wouldn't it even be cooler though, if you knew that he had that you know he had saved Steve's life, so that when Steve does see later that he's alive, it's like like it would have almost hit more. That's the only thing in Steve's entire story in the Infinity saga I'd change in the entire saga, is his friend died differently by saving his life, and that would have elevated this movie and just added a another layer of why Steve is awesome.

SPEAKER_00 2:49:13

Yeah, you know, I agree, I agree. I think it definitely would have elevated Bucky too, to be honest.

SPEAKER_05 2:49:17

Well, it would have made us in the further in the future movies be even more understandable of yeah, he's gonna save, like because that's what Bucky did for him. You know, I I just feel like this this is that emotional thing this movie didn't have towards the end. Because my other issues with this act is the bad guys went from I was okay with them being the snivelling bad guys that they were and we're doing great, and then we get to this third act, and we still have yet to really see him do something god-awful. And like, oh man, I know you're bad. You've killed some people out of distaste, but you really never tested our hero in the sense of 90% of this movie is them running from Steve. Which, okay, that can make a good movie. I'm with ya. But there's no moments of dread for me when it comes to Red Skull, which sucks because there could be. Because he's scary good and he's scary bad, and like I kind of would have minded if that last when I hey, I why can't we just go knock on the front door? I would have rather that been a trap and have been a harder situation than it was. If we're not gonna see those commandos again because we're going 70 years into the future, that'd have been the perfect time to kill every single one of them in a trap and have it at the hands of Red Skull. That's all I'm saying. I know it never happened in the comics, but if you're never gonna see them again, anyways, what do you what do you that's the one thing you could change in this continuity of the MCU on movies? Is what if Steve's plan fails at the end and he has to improvise, which we know he can do, and he improvised and we still get the ending that we get. But we still but then we also get a taste of Red Skull that makes us go, yeah, you better beat him because geez, he just beffed you up. Because he never really does. They get the best of Red Skull by flying across a canyon and breaking into glass in the windows of in the middle of his encampment. It just makes no sense to me. It's the Indiana Jones nonsense that is fun to watch, but logic goes out the window. And that that's my problem. It was style over story at this at this part of the movie. It would have been great if they're in there, they they go, they do exactly that same scene, and they all get in there, and then Red Skull just says, Yeah, well, you know, just by by the way, this is where I wanted you to go, and then you just start seeing these guys getting picked off and Steve dealing with that, you know, and that would even that would earn him flying the ship into the ice, right? It's like he felt like this mission was my mission, and these people are all dying. I have to finish it, and I'm gonna see it right to the end, which means I'm gonna put the nose of this thing right into this, and I want to be here doing it. Yeah, we'd have been like, hell yeah, Bucky would have, because he did for you. Yep. But that's that's the that's where this failed for me.

SPEAKER_01 2:52:11

I agree to that.

SPEAKER_05 2:52:12

I think that would have been a uh a better uh that's my hot take, by the way, when we get there. Yeah. That it's it's two Indiana Jones. And and yes, guys, there is such a thing as two Indiana Jones. So sorry. I I did I kind of blew the the uh secret of the of my hot take of this because it it it really is a big part of that last act, you know. And and don't get me wrong, I'm not saying this movie's bad because it's still a great freaking movie, guys. It's just when you really when you when you nitpick, like I'm trying, I want to come in with a very definitive list at the end, right? That that's these are my problems with this movie. So this Red Skull just not did not get his due.

unknown 2:52:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:52:54

Alright, so um your best moment, though.

SPEAKER_05 2:52:59

In the last act, the best moment, I will have to say Boy. I really like it when he comes up out of the and he's there with Sam Jackson. And I do like, I mean, I know it's it might be a cliche best moment, but that really is a great it's a great snap ending, you know? And I like movies that end with a boom, like wow, that's cool. So I'm gonna give it that. I'm gonna give it to that.

SPEAKER_01 2:53:24

I uh I always forget that that is the post-credit scene or just part of the movie. Right, me too. I forgot that this time too. This is early on in MCU where post-credit scenes are still new. Yeah. So I like what we saw in the um Incredible Hulk and with, I think, one of the Iron Man movies, they put the post-credit or the mid-credit scene, what we would have considered it now, just a tag at the end. So it is part of the part of the movie. I mean, they're both part of the movie, but you know what I mean. This is more part of the movie. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's the main part before the credits role. Yeah. Um my uh best moment I would say is I love I like the dialogue that Steve has with Red Skull.

SPEAKER_00 2:54:03

Yeah, me too.

SPEAKER_01 2:54:04

I think that I I do agree that I think that Red Skull was a little bit underutilized, and I want to say I think that's in my hot take, to be honest.

SPEAKER_00 2:54:14

Look and see, since we already spoiled hot takes. Uh yeah. Uh I I I did put on there that he um just want to make sure I'm saying it right.

SPEAKER_01 2:54:28

I put on there he is a great villain. But he's a little I he is a little underutilized. I'd like to see what he would look like modern day because he's more formidable in the comics when he goes in the modern day like Steve does, and to see how that would have happened. But anyways, um besides that, the dialogue though between Steve and Red Skull, really good. Really good dialogue, how how they wrote it. I love the mannerisms, Hugo Weaving does such a great job at the time. Oh, yeah. Um it's it's it I like seeing the contrast of Steve with a super soldier serum and a Red Skull with whatever version of that was. Yeah. That it really highlights the I don't want to say two sides of the same coin type thing, because I feel like that's a cliche, but it's it really highlights the someone really good, what they what they're like, with that super soldier serum versus something really bad and they're bad at the kids and motives with a similar serum. Because that's that's how uh they get their origin to a degree when um Dr. Abraham explains to Steve uh why he's German and he's there um trying to recruit for um the American military and all that is that he helped him become the Red Skull regrets it. And he wants to get he wants to find the counterpart to that that could defeat him. And that's when he found Steve. Right. And I think I think that kind of begs a question that we're gonna get into a little bit later, but I'll just touch upon it right now. Um Is a super soldier soldier serum kind of its own character throughout the MCU? It feels like the I wouldn't say its own character, like it's the whole living entity type thing, but you know, it's it's such a unique um serum treatment, whatever you want to call it, that it's not just something that gives you superpowers, it enhances the natural um the qualities that you have. Yes, that's why it's so hard for them to try to pass the mantle of Captain America onto others, is because there is no one like Steve Rogers. And I think that that's one of the only Marvel's biggest mistakes in the comics. Like we've always needed Captain America, so therefore we have to give it to Sam Wilson, we have to give it to Bucky Barnes, we have to give it to this, that, which actually Hucky is a little bit closer to the closest to Steve, but still it's not Steve.

SPEAKER_05 2:57:00

You can't give it to Bucky, though. Well, he already has it, but you can't yeah, no, anyways, but no, no, you're right.

SPEAKER_01 2:57:06

But it's that's that's just one of the things, and maybe that's just a gripe I have overall, excuse me, of like the comic book industry itself, is that you've made it where the the mantle is more important than the hero, or when the hero, and this could be a comic hot take, everybody, but the hero could will eventually pass on. Should that shouldn't that mantle that he embodied pass on with him? Yeah, I feel like we should. I I this is this is how I want to say this, and I know I'm getting a little off topic here for a little bit, but when Sam gets the shield from Captain America, he I want to say this right because I don't want to mess up and I had it perfectly in my head a moment ago. Is that they well that what they do in the comics is when Steve is not here anymore, they just give the title to someone else when I feel like that is who the character is. When you think Captain America, you think of Steve Rogers, and it's not because anyone's racist or sexist or what else to do with it. Because that's the character. It's the same thing I feel like with Black Widow, too. Like Black Widow is Natasha Romanoff. Yes, Yelena Volova is a black widow, so to speak, but the black widow, that's Natasha Romanoff when you say it. Yeah, and it's it's like if you do it with any other character. I just feel like that we hold on to the mantle of it, like we always need Captain America no matter what. If Sam says in that scene, I can't picture a world without Captain America. Or is it without Captain America or without Steve Rogers? Either way, they really are one in the same. I think it's without Steve Rogers. Without Steve Rogers, yes. And he gives him the shield. I get it. I do feel like that is a natural tri progression of he's giving it to him because he thinks he should be the one to carry it on. But I don't know if it's that's complete fan service proper to carry it on. You know what I mean? Yep, I agree. And I don't I don't mean this with disrespect to Anthony Mackey. I don't mean this disrespect to Sam Wilson as a character at all, but like Captain America as the hero that we know should have died with Steve. And it's it feels inauthentic to continue it on after that and try to say it's still Captain America, because you just can't duplicate Steve Rogers.

SPEAKER_05 2:59:44

Yeah, you're touching on it perfectly because this is one of those things that is one of Marvel's kind of silent failures that they've done from the start, which is like Thor with who's who's able to wield the hammer, right? We had a whole discussion about what does it mean to really be worthy of the hammer, because I don't feel like Thor earned that. So, what's it mean to be worthy of the title of Captain America or to be that good or to be Steve Rogers' version of Captain America? It's and just like they say in both of them, it's well, it's it obviously it's more to be Thor than the hammer, right? And it's more to be the hammer than Thor. So anybody can be a Thor with the power of Thor through the hammer if you're worthy. And just like the scientists tell Steve, this accentuates not only your strength and your ability, but also who you are as a person on the inside. So if you're someone that's bad, you're ten times more evil. If you're someone who's good, like he sees in Steve, you're ten times more good. You know, it's so once again, when you look at that, it what Captain America does that Thor didn't do was earn that. Steve earned that title by being that good already. So when it accentuates it, it makes it even better. There's no one I can think of right now that he should get that. You know, especially Sam.

SPEAKER_01 3:01:09

If I would have gone a Captain America, a fourth Captain America movie, I would have ended it with Sam saying Captain America is gone with Steve Rogers. Yeah. He should have put the shield down. I think it would have been a more interesting movie. One, if they took the Falcon and Winter Soldier show and turned it into a movie, I think it would have been a lot more interesting than what we actually got. And we'll get to that when we get to that, guys. But it would have been more interesting of a movie for that one to say the American government wants another Captain America, and Sam as and Bucky and all of them are trying to protect the legacy of Steve and to show that no one is like Steve and that you know, Serpent Society, you you name it, get that all together. But at the end of the day, when that movie is done, Sam makes the announcement to the world that the world always is yearning for Captain America. But to face the reality that we've all had to face since Thanos, Captain America is no more. We do need more heroes, but we don't need another Steve Rogers because there's only one Steve.

SPEAKER_05 3:02:19

Well, the sad thing is though, is you're correct. But the sadder part of it is it doesn't have to be that way. They could write in, if they you are a good writer, you could make this work. Because they did it right in the wrong movie. You know, I'm you gotta know some of them have gotta be sitting back looking at that Brave New World movie, going, Boy, he's not Captain America, man, we messed up. And then someone's gotta be watching Thunderbolts going, we just made Captain America out of Bucky.

SPEAKER_00 3:02:49

Mm-hmm. Yes.

SPEAKER_05 3:02:51

The most Captain America moments I've ever seen since Steve was in with Bucky in Thunderbolts.

SPEAKER_01 3:02:56

Yes. Yes. His scenes in Thunderbolts remind me. Oh mess that up America would have done every inch of it.

SPEAKER_05 3:03:05

Who didn't sit back and say, wait a minute, guys, you're writing a Captain America right here. Oh shoot. We messed up. We put this in a wrong movie. Because that's the problem. Like, yeah. I more I would prefer Bucky be Captain America. I agree. I agree. Even though I don't think Bucky should be Captain America.

SPEAKER_01 3:03:24

If they had to talk to you. But if you had to, if that had to be. Hell yeah, we must have a Captain America again. Bucky is the closest one to us.

SPEAKER_05 3:03:32

He's the Captain America Thunderbolts. Holy cow.

SPEAKER_04 3:03:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 3:03:35

He is their Captain America. If they're the new Avengers, he's the Captain America of that group.

SPEAKER_04 3:03:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 3:03:41

No doubt. And that might be where your intention is. But you did so bad with the other Captain America that you want to be the real Captain America.

SPEAKER_04 3:03:49

Yep.

SPEAKER_05 3:03:50

That this one overshadows it. And it's kind of like, get rid of that one because he's good as a bird.

SPEAKER_01 3:03:55

Yep. That's what I'm interested to see in Doomsday, how they're gonna how they're gonna tackle that with Steve.

SPEAKER_05 3:04:00

That's probably the one thing in Doomsday I'm not looking forward to the most is dealing with the fact that he's gonna be freaking Captain America the whole time. And how we're gonna deal with that. And there's that's probably the one thing I might be dreading more than the X-Men stuff is him and Steve meeting up and them, hey buddy, look, we're both the same guy. I'm gonna, oh my god. I agree. We're gonna have to just swallow that because that's what they're gonna do. That's exactly what they're gonna do.

SPEAKER_02 3:04:31

All right, look at that.

SPEAKER_01 3:04:32

Okay, exactly. Okay.

SPEAKER_05 3:04:41

Um I think you just gotta finish that up and then we'll do our score.

SPEAKER_01 3:04:47

Yeah, you already talked about your biggest issues, and um I think did you already mention if your climax was earned, you think?

SPEAKER_05 3:04:53

Yeah, I kind of put it all rolled into the ending. Yeah, because it was I went on a whole tangent.

SPEAKER_01 3:04:57

I I didn't have too much of a biggest issue other than uh like I wrote on here, I think you could have jumped, but I I'm not gonna I'm not gonna say that that um Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 3:05:07

I told you how they could have fixed that. But yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:05:10

Yeah, that didn't uh make or break it for me, though.

SPEAKER_05 3:05:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:05:12

Uh emotionally, yes. I think it was a great story to be Captain America. Agreed. I would give the ending of this a score of seven out of ten. I'd give it a six. We're close.

SPEAKER_05 3:05:23

That's close, guys. Yep, yep. That ending saved them. The last 10 minutes is great, you know. But leading up to it, maybe you just go, oh man, I really hate how Bucky died. It really bugged me. Yeah. Um I'm like, oh, I would have been so yeah, by the way, it's on folks in the background, and it's literally there. It goes. He's gone. Look at this. I mean, so yeah. I make sure you put a picture of that up and add it. No, but it is the worst. It's uh there should have been a moment where something was gonna happen to Steve, and they just looked at each other and and Steve even can say no. And Bucky just does something, and you're just like, yeah, Bucky, and then he dies, and you're like, Oh, that's sad. And then later have him see a vision of it while he's flying the plane into the ice. Come on, guys, if you're not tearing up right there, I don't know who you are, man. Yeah, I don't know who you are. I'm gonna cry over that more than I am about Peggy missing him, that's for sure. Yeah, because she looks like I don't know, I like her, but she's a tough cookie, man. Like I'm just saying. Like, she looks like 20 minutes later, she's like, Well, that's over.

SPEAKER_01 3:06:27

I but you know we get to the the uh the deep dives of the casting of performances, we're gonna be a little bit similar on some of that. Yeah, we might be probably for the first time since we started this retrospective for the female elite for me personally. Yeah, anyways, um, post-credit scene. What happens? Steve is shown furiously training in a modern boxing gym, struggling to process his new era. Nick Fury approaches and tells him there is a vision with worldwide stakes that require his help. Leads directly into the Avengers.

SPEAKER_04 3:06:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:07:00

Alright, so uh what uh uh actually we don't have the I don't have the rating right on here. Let's go right to the post-credit scene too, and then we'll bubble time. The post-credit scene is a teaser trailer for the Avengers showing quick shots of Iron Man, Thor, Hawk, Black Widow, Hawkeye, and Loki as Earth's mightiest heroes prepare to assemble.

SPEAKER_05 3:07:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:07:25

Alright.

SPEAKER_05 3:07:26

Awesome.

SPEAKER_01 3:07:27

How important are these post-credit scenes to the MCU?

SPEAKER_05 3:07:30

These are probably the most important ones, at least the one. That teaser trailer to the Avengers was the culmination of holy cow, this is happening. And not only is it happening, but it worked in a trailer. Because it could have looked stupid. And it didn't. It looked like, oh my god, I cannot wait for oh my god, I cannot wait for this to happen. Yeah. And and there it's happening. High level 100%. 100%. Both did great jobs. The one prepared you, showing him kicking and doing all this thing and being Steve. Awesome. Very kind of, I'd say an unnecessary post-credit scene. I think he could have ended, I don't think he needed this post-credit scene. I still give it 10 out of 10 because there's nothing really wrong with it. But like him waking up in modern time at the end of the movie, I think was good enough.

SPEAKER_00 3:08:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 3:08:16

You know, and but then to see this trailer, like, oh my God.

SPEAKER_00 3:08:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 3:08:20

Like that was that was this that was the in stone. No matter where this Marvel Universe project they have is going, we are at least going to get a team up movie of all these movies we just saw over the last how many years.

SPEAKER_01 3:08:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 3:08:33

And they have they that's a big deal.

SPEAKER_01 3:08:34

This is a great successful launch to do something like that. I don't think any film would be film franchise would be this ambitious to do it like that.

SPEAKER_05 3:08:41

They're on the verge of making history, right? Literally. Yes. Yep, literally. Yep.

SPEAKER_01 3:08:45

Uh, I put on here how important it is very much and very cool to actually get the trailer to a film as the post-credit scene. Awesome. Fun fact this has only happened twice in MCU's history with this movie. That's right. And then the second time, at the end of No Way Home from Spider-Man, you get the Doctor Strange Multiverse of Madness trailer as the post-credit scene.

SPEAKER_00 3:09:07

Which at the time, we were hyped. We were so hyped.

SPEAKER_02 3:09:11

It's just we'll get to it when we get to it.

SPEAKER_05 3:09:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:09:14

Anyways.

SPEAKER_05 3:09:16

That's why I think we're going to get it again at the end of Spider-Man. We're going to get a whole hardcore Doomsday trailer. It's going to be a boom. This is the Docker. This is a Doomsday trailer you've been playing. It might not be this one. It's going to be the one that makes you go, What are we looking at?

SPEAKER_01 3:09:31

You know what I mean? Like, it's going to be awesome. Yeah. I think we should, at the end of the Avengers Doomsday trailer, get a hardcore Secret Wars trailer.

SPEAKER_05 3:09:38

Yeah, that'd be awesome.

SPEAKER_01 3:09:40

For me personally, just hit this with one, boom. That would be cool. It'd be like, oh, you can't wait till next year. Here's a little sliver, and be like, a whole trailer. We have a whole year to talk about this one trailer. Forget the rest of your marketing campaign.

SPEAKER_05 3:09:53

When they ushered out Lord of the Rings back in the day, the first teaser trailer to Lord of the Rings showed the fellowship walking up over a hill and it said Lord of the Rings, Fellowship of the Ring coming Christmas 2007, right? Or no. Was yeah, 2007? I don't can't remember. Yeah. 200 whatever. Or what? 2001? Their first one's 2001. Oh my god. Hold on, folks. We're gonna have to make sure we double check on that. But anyways, it was it was it was you know, it said the fellowship of the ring coming out 2001. And then the it keeps going, and the trailer goes Lord of the Rings 2001, and then the trailer keeps going. That same teaser trailer keeps going and goes Lord of the Rings, the Two Towers, 2002, and then it goes keeps going and says the Lord of the Rings, The Return of the King, 2000, 2003, and then that's the teaser trailer for the first Lord of the Rings movie. Holy cow! You know, and these Avengers movies, uh the way they did it like this made me feel that way. I'm like, yeah, cool. You know what I mean? Like, give us this stuff, like give us show us that stuff. Like, I like it when movies do that. You're 100% correct. Like, do that thing, get us hyped. I would love at the end of Doomsday, we get to the very end of the credits, and it's a two-minute full trailer of Secret Wars. Yeah. Just boom. No teasers, no can't can't wait. No, we're just gonna give you just it's a year away. Give it to them. Give that trailer to us and make us just seep for the next one.

SPEAKER_04 3:11:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 3:11:23

The Matrix did that actually. At the end of the Matrix, you get a trailer for the next one. And then at the end of the second one, you get a trailer for the third one. They did that. And that was that successful. And and whether however you feel about those movies, at the time, I remember seeing them, they were like mind-blowing and they were way, yeah, they were cutting edge. So even is is even in retrospect that they the sequels weren't as good. When you got done watching a sequel and they give you a trailer for the next one, you couldn't help but be excited because it was it was left on a cliffhanger, you know. So, like, I think that that's you know, I yeah, do it, Marvel's just have fun, you know, have fun with it. But I I would love to see that. But this this did that. The this Avengers trailer was a perfect, this is when it needed to happen, and this is when this is when you're ready. We're ready now for the Avengers, man. Like now we need to see this.

SPEAKER_01 3:12:12

I score 10 out of 10.

SPEAKER_05 3:12:14

Yeah, oh yeah, 100%.

SPEAKER_01 3:12:15

All right, deep dives, casting, best performance for you.

SPEAKER_05 3:12:20

Huh. I'm gonna give the best performance in this movie to Hugo Weaving as Red Skull. Nice, okay.

SPEAKER_01 3:12:26

Hey, he deserves it.

SPEAKER_05 3:12:27

Yep. I'm I'm not, you know, I'm not taking away from everybody else in it. They all did a good job. Um, but I gotta tell you, man, that guy just he he brought this unique, just enough silly campiness is a bad guy to it, but enough to make me want to see just wreck house. And as good as the performance was, I it's in it's just it, I still wish he was able to do a couple things that would have been even more scarier because it had been a little more remembering, you know, a little more uh memorable. So I'm gonna have to give it to Hugo on this one.

SPEAKER_01 3:12:57

How about you? I put down Chris Evans. Good choice. Um obviously, not only is he the title hero, of course, but he was I could honestly, if I had to really reevaluate this, I could put him as both my best performance and surprising performance, just because I didn't know at the time, mind you, I was really young too, but I only knew him as Johnny Storm in Fantastic Four. So I didn't know how that would translate. Would I be would it be believable for me? Because I'm already used to that actor as a certain Marvel character already. Gotcha. But it was great. But yeah, I'm just gonna label him just as my my best performance uh favorite. Uh my most surprising performance though is Stanley Tucci. He is such a good actor. I put him so good. Yeah, he doesn't really have too big of a role, but he's big enough in the role where he just he one, he can act the crap out of a good German accent. Like really, really good. He's good, and I believe he's Italian. Tucci is Italian.

SPEAKER_05 3:13:53

Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah, he sounds like a pretty average Joe, but he's yeah, he he's always been good at accents. He does in several a lot of music, plays a lot of very, very good.

SPEAKER_01 3:14:03

I was surprised by his performance. I actually really liked it. So who's your most surprised?

SPEAKER_05 3:14:07

My most surprising performance I'm gonna I put for Chris is Chris Evans. Why I say that is because it's someone that wasn't that well received all the time. I liked him as John Eat Storm. I I enjoyed those Fantastic Four movies back then a little more than others. I see the faults in them and where they went wrong for sure. But they're not they're not hard movies to watch, though. You know, they're actually still hell, I just watched one the other day for the fun of it. I was like, oh, you know, I can watch this one again. And you know, it didn't blow my mind, but it is it is what it is. And um, but I I saw a movie with him called Cellular at the time before this had come out. Yes. Very good movie. Very good. And I was surprised how awesome he was in it. And and I was like, man, this guy could be a really good action star. And then when he did this, it that's why it surprised me because when I saw him in this, I'm like, oh, you're a good actor too. You're not just someone that is a good action star, you're a good actor. And to be honest with you, he's on my top five of the best actors in the MCU. Like the outside of the MCU, best actor-wise, he's in my top five list. Um, he did a movie called Puncture, where he's a uh plays a lawyer who's trying to help nurses sue pharmaceutical companies to uh make needles that once you use the needle into a person's arm, the needle itself goes back up into the pen of the needle so then they can't get stuck again and get diseases. Great movie. And his character is a guy who's who's a drug addict, who's also an excellent lawyer. And I highly suggest go watch puncture. Nobody knows about nobody talks about this when they talk about him, and it's phenomenal. He's so good. He has a scene in it, guys. I cry. It's like I cried. I watched and it brought me to tears this moment in this movie with him and and another character. And it's one of the it's phenomenal. Uh and he's done this before. I think he's chosen poor movies of recent to be in outside of this. Um, but then he shows up and knives out, and he's so good in that, you know. He's he does a great job. I like Chris Evans. But this, though, I put it as the most surprising, because like I said, I just thought he'd be a fun action star. And and when I saw he was cast as this, I'm like, good choice, because we can watch this guy do this, and then the acting show. He plays Steve so subtle, like it's there's no overacting. You could easily overact this good guy for showing up, and he does. You know, he does it, he keeps it just enough. Yeah, you know, and but then pulls it back just enough. I'm like, yeah, I like this guy, this good stuff.

SPEAKER_01 3:16:33

Yeah, well, by the way, those needles you talked about, they actually do exist.

SPEAKER_05 3:16:37

Yeah, they do now. This movie is about how that happened. Oh, this is a true story. This movie is true, the puncture movie is a true story about how that happened. And actually, when you watch that, it's it's heartbreaking because it's what a mess that was. You know, there's a very big controversy behind why they wouldn't, well, a lot of hospitals wouldn't buy those needles. Because there's folks, whether we like it or not, there's even corruption in our pharmaceuticals industry, lots of money involved. People, there's people involved that they have a product they've been making a ton of money on forever. Someone comes along with a new one that threatens their way of life, before you know it, it doesn't look good. You know what I mean? And I'm telling you, this movie, if you want to see a little eye-opener about what that means behind the scenes of that, watch that film. It's the true story of how those needles came to be. And it is a fantastic movie. If you haven't seen it, Sam, that'd be a great watch sometime for one of our episodes. So great, great movie. Um yeah. This is the only time I'm ever gonna say this. The only time I'll ever say this. Ever. It's Sebastian Stan. And it bothers me because he's on my top three of the best actors in the MCU. If you look at the stuff this guy's done outside of the MCU, folks, he is a hell of an actor. He is one of the best guys. I actually, when I hear he's in something, I'm like, I need to watch that. You know, I don't care what it's about. He even played Donald Trump real well. Yes. Um, you might have to look it up. I do believe him and Jeremy Strong are in this movie. Uh look up the title of it. For some reason it's leaving my mind, but he played Donald Trump. You probably do Sebastian Sand's Donald Trump movie. And it's he's good in it. Like he's great in it. Well, no matter how you feel about Donald Trump, folks, he's still a person that someone's gonna play as a character. And that's just it. You know, evil, good, love him, don't love him. We're not gonna talk about that here. He's Donald Trump. He's a character himself, and and he plays him. Well, just just like I'll say Josh Brolin plays an amazing George W. Bush in W, which is another movie should all watch if you haven't seen it. Oh my gosh, yeah, Leila. Yeah, you show it again. What's the name of that film again, Sam, to tell everybody?

SPEAKER_01 3:18:48

Yes, the The Apprentice.

SPEAKER_05 3:18:50

Yes, it's fantastic. Yep. It's basically about the guy, it really is more about the guy who taught Donald Trump everything he knows. Yeah. Played by Jeremy Strong. But Sebastian plays Donald Trump and he's awesome as Donald Trump.

SPEAKER_02 3:19:02

So like it's sick, it's crazy.

SPEAKER_05 3:19:06

Yeah. It's great.

SPEAKER_02 3:19:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 3:19:08

He does the same thing where he plays Tommy Lee in that one with the Pam Anderson one, the TV show where he plays Pam's husband, Tommy Lee. It's called Tommy and Pam. Oh, he's so good. He plays a cannibal in the movie called Fresh on Ulu. Watch it's great. I mean, it this I'm telling you, the guy's fantastic, but boy, he sucked in this. And it and it's not his fault. No, this is the writing.

SPEAKER_01 3:19:28

Yes, I completely agree. I put the same exact thing down between him and Haley Atlow.

SPEAKER_05 3:19:33

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 3:19:33

Sad to say that, but it's probably the first female lead that I would say was probably well, Liv Tyler. I did put her as the weakest files first. This is the most surprising, so take out a great salt, but um, I put them kind of as neck and neck, and I felt bad saying that because I kept thinking, oh, I can't put Sebastian Stan, but then as I'm trying to be critical on all the performances and uh what was given to them for the script, like he did a good job for the script that they gave him. But agreed. It was it's just garbage.

SPEAKER_05 3:20:05

They wrote him as a side character, and then like you watch him fall off that drain, guys, and you're like, what the fuck? Yeah, I do agree that that yeah, it's awful. It's that could have been way better. And and he's got the chops. Now look at him, he's awesome in the MCU, and his butt, he's so good. I can't wait to see him when I see him.

SPEAKER_01 3:20:23

Exactly. I'm looking forward to his seats in the thing.

SPEAKER_05 3:20:26

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 3:20:26

Anyways, um, all right, so uh casting wins for you.

SPEAKER_05 3:20:31

Yeah, not many misses, guys. I think this is a very well-casted movie. I'm not gonna go on maybe the guy who played, yeah. We'll go somewhere else with that, never mind. So the the casting win for me, though, for sure, was bringing Tommy Lee Jones in. Oh, because you can you brought the Gravitas, here he is, the one, the only. If you're gonna put anybody in charge of training a bunch of guys and be the leader and just someone that exudes any kind of power and but still has a warmness, yes, you know, and and smart, but still silly, it's Tommy Lee. Like Tommy Lee Jones is one of the best actors that we've ever had, ever will have. And he just just be in there. I don't even know how hard he had to act. I think he just came and talked and left. And if that's the case, it's awesome, you know, because he's just so good in it. He's so good at it.

SPEAKER_01 3:21:19

I agree. Full wholeheartedly. I agree. I think that was that was uh perfect. I put that Chris Evans for me was a casting win.

SPEAKER_05 3:21:28

Yeah, that's a given, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:21:29

And I also I will say Haley Atwell, even though I put her neck and neck with Sebastian Stan as the weaker, as one of the weakest performances, she is a casting win. She's uh she is she has this uh presence about herself that makes me want to say, I want you to be Steve's girlfriend, you know, type of thing. Like it's she's just and she then gets a spin-off show after this um through ABC Studios uh called Agent Carter, where she does two seasons, and she could home her own show.

SPEAKER_05 3:22:00

Yeah, just that great actress. I agree. Yeah, it's hard to come up with a a miss because I think yeah, I think the whole thing was casted well, truthfully. Yeah, you know, it's I if if there's any miss in the casting, it's it's the misuse of the writing of the character, not the casting itself of it.

SPEAKER_01 3:22:16

So there are any missed opportunities or wasted potential, you would say in the Yeah, Red Skull is my big missed opportunity.

SPEAKER_05 3:22:23

And that's part of my hot take, which is why when we get there, we can skip the hot takes because we've really jumped into them already. I don't I don't really have anything hotter than that to say, other than what I've already kind of said about a couple of the other things. But yeah, I I feel like man, if you just you could have if you couldn't do it in this movie, I feel like let let's see him again be evil, and we never get that, unfortunately. So I yeah, missed opportunity is I needed one or two scenes of him being freaking just yeah, or or bring in the stakes. Yeah, bring in the stakes, man, kill the commandos. He should have alone killed them, like they should have come in, and there should have been a whole scene where he as an evil super soldier kicks their ass and kills and murders every single one of them, and that makes Steve holy cow, you know what I mean? Like, because we're we're never gonna see them again, anyways. And uh that's to me, that's just what it just would have made it. Like, we have to beat this guy, like you have to.

SPEAKER_01 3:23:21

That's what I thought is my missed opportunity, uh, my voice of intention, is the Howlin Commandos because yeah, they're a little flat. Yeah, they're a little flat, but you know what? Honestly, in my opinion, you could have done a D Disney Plus show of the tales of the Howling Commandos.

SPEAKER_05 3:23:40

I agree. Yeah, that'd be cool.

SPEAKER_01 3:23:42

That picks up after World War II when Steve was done and just have him have them fight Hydra soldiers, have them hunting down old Nazis hiding from everybody. Yes, that would be so cool. Because it was a great.

SPEAKER_05 3:23:55

And they meet up, they meet up with Magneto.

SPEAKER_01 3:23:58

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_05 3:23:59

I don't know, I'm just going way out there.

SPEAKER_01 3:24:00

Find a young boy named Eric Latcha.

SPEAKER_05 3:24:03

And a door that to a secret world of dinosaurs under the crust of the earth with Nazis riding them with lasers. Come on. Maybe some ninjas. Come on. No, but I think you're correct. You could have had a great that's right. You could have had you could have had a you could have had a great fun spin-off with them. Or like I said, kill them. You know, if you don't want them to be so flat, have heartwarming moments where even as Red Skull's choking one out or holding one up in the air, he looks over at Steve like sorry, and he dies. Steve's like, bah, and everything goes crazy and they're fighting. I mean, what the hell? We miss out on um you know, but hey.

SPEAKER_01 3:24:38

All right, I'm gonna go through this like really quickly. This is the one part where I really usually don't have too much to say. Uh direction and production.

SPEAKER_05 3:24:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:24:46

Everything for me was very good from the direction style, the cinematography, um, the action quality. I think I will say the action quality gets better for Steve, all the films after this one. 100%. This is just a basic period piece, World War II, bare minimum action type stuff. I would even dare to say that the Wonder Woman movie that is supposed to be a World War II period piece of Wonder Woman has better action scenes than Captain America for some culture.

SPEAKER_05 3:25:13

I agree. Well, that's one of my DC hot takes. I think that Wonder Woman 2 movie is way better than people say it is. We'll get there. Someday.

SPEAKER_01 3:25:22

Yeah, everything for me, very good. The music. Everything we've talked about this in past episodes, and we totally agree. The music sucks for Yeah, what's wrong?

SPEAKER_05 3:25:31

What happened in these first few movies? But this one is just Thank God for the next one.

SPEAKER_01 3:25:36

Yeah. You know, like it's full of this is just has very Americana. It's a black piece stuff. This is stuff, like I said, you can find this on SoundCloud and download it as a ring tone. It's not anything fancy.

SPEAKER_05 3:25:51

You know, and no offense to the composers if you're big time, maybe you just don't stay, it just doesn't. I'm just not I have a playlist on my phone of of soundtracks of movies, and none of these are on there.

SPEAKER_01 3:26:02

What Fox got right for the Marvel characters, both Fantastic Four and X-Men, is they had a distinct theme song and sound to them that I mean you I could listen right now in my head to the Fantastic Four for 2005, their theme. Yeah, it's just it's yeah, it's very distinct and very cool. And then of course, I'm sorry, but uh my hot take for the X-Men, the films from Fox have a better theme song than the 90s cartoons. And I know people love the 90s cartoons and it's popular. I get it, I like it too, but those films do something too.

SPEAKER_05 3:26:37

Oh, when they go into those montages and Benedict.

SPEAKER_01 3:26:40

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_02 3:26:41

Yeah, it's so good, anyways.

SPEAKER_01 3:26:44

Oh, so what's your take on that whole section?

SPEAKER_05 3:26:48

It's the same kind of thing, you know. This is like, okay, it's directed by a guy. I don't see uh, I don't see any kind of like signature on it. Yep. Not like I did in Sorg, where I could see, okay, this is definitely a Kenneth Braun. I mean, obviously at the time, Kenneth Brown didn't have like a signature, they were still early in his career doing that stuff. But afterwards, when you realize it's him and say, Oh, obviously that's the guy who did it's a guy who made it. Yeah, it's a clearly that's a guy who can make a movie that we just watched. This you could probably tell me this guy's name a hundred times, I'm gonna forget it. And and this movie doesn't, you know, do anything for it. The visual effects, I think, are a little better in this, on in certain things, especially with young Steve or small Steve, I should say. Um, so where the visual effects really needed to be good, this movie did a good job with, I think. Yeah. Except Bucky falling off the train looks like garbage. Um, and uh the action quality, it's uh for me that's the problem, is it's it's style over action, it's style over story as well. There's a style to this that is very Indiana Jones reminiscent, and where it might work for Indiana Jones just for me felt kind of flat for Captain America. Not saying the stuff that we saw wasn't appealing and fun in a good time, but in a rewatchable sense, I was bored with this movie the second time. And that's that's where, you know, sorry, but a big portion of how I decide to put this on a number scale of these movies is how many times can I watch this movie in a week? Because we try to I try to watch them as many many times as I can in a week before we do these. And you know, honestly, we've only really had the time myself to watch them twice. Yeah, I've watched I maybe watch Iron Man 2 like partially the third time, like uh hour of it or something. But if I try to at least get two viewings, and if I can't how close unbearable to watch the setup. Oh my I was the drag. But this got close to that too. This had times where I literally fast forward, I'm like, yep, yep, yep. Okay, that's what I wanted to see because I forgot about this. And that then that's not good, you know? And and a lot of that is because some of the action was I I don't need to see this moment of action when I think these movies, as you see, as going further, going after Avengers, we don't have movies. Not of them, not a lot of them are like that. They actually do care about every moment that there's that. Like it gets better, guys. I'm not saying this is because this is yeah, no matter how negative we all sound, these are still great comic book movies. Some of the best you're ever gonna see started something that's the most amazing thing we've ever watched. So this is just once again being as critically critiqued about it as we possibly can, you know. So but yeah, so that's my issues. And once again, like you just got done saying, man, the music sucks. Like it's just nothing memorable. It's not okay, I take it back. It doesn't suck. It's just it's music. It don't hurt the movie, it definitely doesn't help it either. So yeah, that's true. Sorry, I shouldn't say it sucks. I do apologize. It's just not there.

SPEAKER_01 3:29:49

Distract us from anything. No, but at the same time, there was nothing memorable about it that stuck it out to us.

SPEAKER_05 3:29:54

Yeah, and and and unfortunately, and well now unfortunately, good movies have good soundtracks, plain and simple. Whether it's songs that are picked to be in the movie or an actual orchestrated music, good movies have good soundtracks. 99% of the movies that you ever see me put on a like a 100% perfect that I would you know put on the top tier of best movies ever made, all their soundtracks. Not everybody's gonna like every single one of them because of taste, but they're the one of the qualities about the movie that is discussed is their soundtrack. Sorry, no, no, but Interstellar, Jaws, Jurassic Park. Yeah, when you you if you say name the top three things that come to your mind about all three of those movies, the soundtrack's one of them because they're just iconic, you know. Yeah, and and and Sammy and I just watched F1. That soundtrack's fantastic, fantastic, you know. So it's like and that's and that and it doesn't have to be Jaws, it has to be as as big as that to be the best soundtrack. It it's it's not about best, it's just it fits that movie. I love a movie with a good soundtrack, man. You get me in that soundtrack, I'm good to go. And these didn't didn't have that, so yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:31:03

All right, we can skip hot takes skip hot takes we already talked about and catch them, rewind back a couple of minutes. Yeah. All right, quick fire questionnaire. Best scene of the movie for you. This is hard, honestly, for me.

SPEAKER_05 3:31:16

Yeah, I thought and thought and thought, and I decided to put in the one I talked about earlier. Um I love that scene where they meet on that bridge when the factory's blowing up after the scene is buggy. That's my favorite scene. Yeah, that that might be the best scene of the moment. And why I say that is because it's just one of those that I'm just eating it up when I watch. I'm like, man, this is I am in, like, I'm forgetting I'm watching a movie. I'm really into it, I'm loving every second of it. This is a great moment. So I'm gonna take it for that. I'm sure there's definitely argument for definitely better scenes, maybe between him and the doctor when he is talking to him about his you know being a good man and all that. That I guess, but that I wouldn't say it's the best scene in the movie, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_01 3:32:02

So I I personally had a hard time with this because I had a couple scenes that I would say were I I I liked. I already talked about in act two. The my favorite scene was him being stealthy, getting into the the present camp. I really probably should have put that as my best scene. My favorite scene of the movie. But I do like the transformation scene. Yeah, so I wrote that down as the one uh for just this talking point here, just because that was I thought it was really cool to actually see that done as someone who read the comic a long time ago and then see how they put that into realization. It's kind of one of those it doesn't look exactly the same because you know drawings and all that are different, but by golly, they may look so good. It was just so good. And to me, that's just that's the beginning of Captain America. Steve Rogers is always there. Yeah, beginning of the captain, just right there.

SPEAKER_05 3:32:55

That's good. I like that. I like that. All right.

SPEAKER_01 3:32:57

Uh I couldn't write down the least best scene for me because I I guess mine would probably be similar to yours with Bucky Dying. Or maybe you got something different.

SPEAKER_05 3:33:08

It it is Bucky Dying now, after we've been talking about it. I keep realizing how bad that is. Um, but I think there's two scenes that are equal to me. That whole train sequence is stupid. I just don't like it. First of all, you're zip lining. You can't, you gotta go before the train. You're not zip lining as fast as the train. That's not happening. I get it, there's logic, it's styled it's the Indiana Jones side I don't like it. And what was the plan? Get those guys on a train, trap them with one soldier with this big gun. They come. It's awful, guys. The other scene that I just really had a hard time with, and it's one of the villain scenes that I wish wasn't in the movie. It's the only time that made me question whether Red Skull was good or not. And the rest of everything else he does is great, but this one particular scene made me cringe a lot, and that's when they're testing out the test rack. And he's just like, We, I didn't come all this way to just be safe. And Bridgey's and all the and I'm just like, this is so like this is dumb. Like, like this felt like I'm like, okay, I get it. This is that campy that went a little far on a campy. Like, back off a little bit. Both those guys in that eight that I just feel like when they were done, I would I feel like in my mind's eye, Hugo Weaving's like, that's what you want? That's what you want me to do. Because it just was like, it's so I didn't come here to be safe, and he pulls the lever. Part of me's like, what if they just exploded right there as the movie ends, right? Like, oh, just by chance, you know, I'm not playing safe, and he pulls the lever like some old stupid movie. Like, I don't know, I'm sorry, guys. It just it it was that was it bothered me a little. That scene just was a little the camp was a little high. You could have brought it made me cringe a tad. So, but I don't know if it made me cringe as much as Bucky off the train. So I think those two scenes for me are hard to pick between. So those two really took me out of it.

SPEAKER_01 3:34:59

Your best villain moment.

SPEAKER_05 3:35:01

Him the hit his introduction in the church while he's still with the regular face, because because when you see the red face guy, you're not trusting that guy for nothing, you know.

SPEAKER_01 3:35:13

That's a dramatic.

SPEAKER_05 3:35:14

Yeah, he's like struggling to and then slowly it's like and there's no one he's gonna walk up to with that head, and you just feel like, oh, you look like a good guy to talk to. No, but this this first guy though doesn't seem as scary until he wants to be. Yeah, like like I said, you feel you can negotiate with him almost, but you can't because you know you're not gonna be able to. Like, okay, this guy is your friend until he's not, you know, and he might just be your friend to get what he wants to get. So, yeah, that's where I'm at with that one.

SPEAKER_01 3:35:44

Well, my favorite my favorite villain moment was kind of to me, it demonstrated how scary he was was when the one soldier came running up to him. By the way, he has the classic bad guy car. I'm sorry, but when it's showing a montage of Captain America. I kind of like it. I kind of like it. I like it too, but you know, he's uh Captain America's with the Holland Commandos taking down all these places and they're they're pulling out the uh Nazi flag and putting down the American flag or Britain flag, whatever it is. Um when he pulls up in that car, and it's a dramatic like fission with a camera. It's like falling to film pole. Like such a classic villain car, but it fits him so well.

SPEAKER_04 3:36:32

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:36:32

But my my uh favorite villain moment is when one of the the guys runs up and says, We could we couldn't defeat him, we were all killed, and then he says, Evidently not, and he shoots him like we fought, we we fought to the last man, he says, right?

SPEAKER_05 3:36:46

He goes, Evidently not.

SPEAKER_02 3:36:47

He's like, Evidently not.

SPEAKER_05 3:36:51

Yeah, it's a good great blank agreed.

SPEAKER_01 3:36:54

Uh most punchable face for you.

SPEAKER_05 3:36:57

For me. What's the name of his little scientist buddy? Arnam Zoo. I want to punch that guy right in the face. Every time I see him and he talks, because he's just snibbily, snibbly, snibbly, and it's like, just shut your mouth, dude. Like, like you just shut up. I can't do that. I'm just I'm just like, I don't like him. I just don't like him.

SPEAKER_01 3:37:18

Like, punch him in the face. Yeah, I should have said him, but I I put and I I heard his name. That's how the only reason why I had that here is when I was watching it, I wrote it down. The one that I chose to be the soldier for the super soldier. Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_05 3:37:31

He's got a he's got a yeah, he needs a good knot. My first my first gut instinct was the bully from the movie theater. Who goes to the movie and acts like that, right? Yeah, like what a jerk. I mean, even if you don't like this, what a but he does get punched in the face.

SPEAKER_04 3:37:45

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 3:37:46

So it's good, but yeah, and no offense to the actor who plays that little scientist guy. Like, he's a great actor, but geez, he just I just want it. Oh you I just want to deck him one.

SPEAKER_01 3:37:56

Yeah, but like I don't know how Red Skulls. Well, I find so funny is the one scene where um Red Skull gets done blasting the other Nazi generals, and then he says Hail Hydra, and then his soldiers in the background go Hail Hydra, and they put their fists up. Then he gives this little like big eyebrow look to Arnold Sola sniffling in the corner and gets out like Hail Hydra! And then when he's being interrogated by Tommy Lee Jones's character, he's all for him, but yeah, when he's in his presence, he makes it seem like he's there as a prisoner.

SPEAKER_05 3:38:31

Yeah, well, he's like he's like, I'm seeing how evil he is, and I'm stuck, and I can't get out of this.

SPEAKER_02 3:38:36

Yeah, and then but yeah, you're with the good guys and you're acting like he acting like he's the he cause he could do it, he could take over the world. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 3:38:43

Someone hasn't punched you in the face, have they? Exactly. That's what Tommy should have said. You need a good punch in the face.

SPEAKER_01 3:38:49

I love when Tommy Lee Jones says, Oh, does a cow give you the ropper lady, topperly? Awesome.

SPEAKER_05 3:38:58

Yeah, I love it. Yeah, it's so good.

SPEAKER_01 3:39:00

Anyways, so um next step. One prop you take home.

SPEAKER_05 3:39:08

I picked two.

SPEAKER_01 3:39:10

Okay. This is hard, I see, because this thing is full of props.

SPEAKER_05 3:39:14

Yeah, I kind of wouldn't mind that little file of the super soldier serum.

unknown 3:39:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 3:39:18

Like on the desk. You know, but honestly, if I had to really pick one thing, I like his first shield.

SPEAKER_01 3:39:22

His first shield? I thought about that too. But part of me thought that's too big as a prop.

SPEAKER_05 3:39:26

Just hide. It'd be kind of cool on a on a wall, though. You know.

SPEAKER_01 3:39:30

Well, I I wrote down uh the soldier helmet the cat uses rebellious mission, because it's just one of the actually it's one of the show girls ones, but it has the A on it, so that it just trickles the tears raw.

SPEAKER_05 3:39:41

That's a good pick, too.

SPEAKER_01 3:39:42

Like and then that's unique to that movie as that, because he doesn't wear that ever again.

SPEAKER_05 3:39:46

So I think the obvious one would be the Tesserag. Yeah, but I feel like it'd be neat to have one.

SPEAKER_01 3:39:51

But that would be cool, but I feel like that could be even the problem from the Avengers. From a lot of them, Tesserac shows up so much, so yeah.

SPEAKER_04 3:39:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:39:58

Anyways, um Most underrated moment.

SPEAKER_05 3:40:03

Um yeah, most underrated moment. Uh I don't know. I think there's more overrated moments than there are under. So I'm gonna pass on that one.

SPEAKER_01 3:40:13

Okay. Um I actually can think of an overrated moment, so I'm gonna let you take that on. But I'll say my underrated moment was the scene of the doctor with Steve explaining the serum and why Steve was chosen. I think that a lot of people, and we see this evidently with even the filmmakers, forget why Steve was chosen to be Captain America, why he was chosen for that serum, and to take on that mantle. And I think that since Endgame in particular, they've had this influx of can be Captain America, are we gonna do this? Or is it gonna be why Russell's character is gonna be this, this, and be like you forget how Captain America became Captain America to begin with. And I feel like if they just re-watch that scene and have it re-explained to the filmmakers and writers behind some of these future projects, they would know why you just can't make another cap.

SPEAKER_05 3:41:05

Yeah, with it.

SPEAKER_01 3:41:06

So, anyways, that was mine. What's your overrated moment then?

SPEAKER_05 3:41:09

Overrated, I I do think um I don't think them the thing with uh Bucky's earned his morning bucky and all that, it's it's all slow to me. You know, I don't I I sad that he's gone and all that, but I'm just so taken out of the movie when that moment happens that that's this is this is the emotional beat that's not hitting for me. So I think it's a little overrated because of that. But but that's once again, it's you know, my taste and kind of a hot take, I guess.

SPEAKER_01 3:41:36

Right. Your funniest moment.

SPEAKER_05 3:41:38

I I as we talked about it already. I love when he does rescue Bucky, that whole exchange. Yeah. Of you're smaller, and then this whole, you know, then he goes into the you know, is it permanent? No, I I couldn't stop laughing at the because they have to talk with each other while they're escaping at the same time. And Bucky's just like kind of going along with he's and then he sees a guy rip his face off. You imagine being in Bucky's shoes at this moment, like like the day before Bucky is captured by these guys, he sees all these futuristic weapons, all of a sudden his best friend's there, who's now a super soldier, and then then the bad guy rips his face off in front of you. I mean, Bucky's probably like, what the hell is going on? Like, you know what I mean? Like, if you put yourself in his shoes for a second, it's kind of a it's a fun moment.

SPEAKER_01 3:42:16

So well, my funniest moments come from the legend Tommy. I already talked about the rumbly tumbly one that didn't make me laugh out loud, but the one that I think made me laugh a little bit harder was when um Steve gives Peggy a kiss and then Steve looks down at Tommy as he's driving, he's like, Don't look at me, I ain't giving you a kiss.

SPEAKER_05 3:42:34

I'm like, that's the that's just a funny, natural corpse. Yep. He just knows when to say it. It's not even a joke, really. He just says it in his own curmudgeon way, and it's it's hilarious. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:42:48

All right. Uh, most emotional moment.

SPEAKER_05 3:42:51

Mine, mine, I think, is with the doctor.

SPEAKER_01 3:42:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 3:42:53

I think that that means a lot. Yeah. So your most underrated scene to me is the most emotional moment to me in the movie. Should have been the Bucky thing, but the doctor one takes it from me.

SPEAKER_01 3:43:04

Yeah. Well, I I agree. If it was, if Bucky died better, then it probably would have been that. Yeah. Yeah. I put the Steve warning the loss of Bucky because he is the loss of his best friend, and you find out at that moment that the Super Soldier serum prevents him from getting drunk. So I think that's poor guy. Yeah, that's interesting. It's actually it's the same thing with the Hulk. The Hulk can in the Hulk form, you can't get drunk. So, um, anyways, I think that was a cool little like fun, like you figured out something new about yourself in your grief. Yep. Agreed. Before we're gonna get into final scores, I do need to make one little shout out mention. Um, we are still a new channel to uh the podcast, to our social media and things like that.

SPEAKER_00 3:43:50

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 3:43:50

And we finally have someone who did comment on one of our posts. Oh wow. So we, by the way, guys, if you're just listening to this, we have a Facebook and an Instagram page. And when we're preparing for an episode, we put out at least three promotional little clip arts that says, give us your thoughts and feedbacks because we do want to hear what you guys think too, as we're making our thoughts for this. And we finally got one for this.

SPEAKER_05 3:44:14

Is this gonna be a funny one? This is I I can't wait till we get bad ones just so we can laugh.

SPEAKER_01 3:44:20

Oh no. It comes from a guy who's a friend of mine named Raj. So thank you so much. Shout out to you, Raj.

SPEAKER_05 3:44:26

Okay, here we go.

SPEAKER_01 3:44:28

I'm gonna read uh your uh your statement here, your little little mini paragraph. All right, hey, let's hear it. We will answer them to the best of our ability, okay? All right, he writes The biggest reason for loving Captain America was Steve Rogers, not the super soldier, but just a guy from Brooklyn having all the qualities even without superpowers. That's very rare in superhero movies because any superhero movie is based on the transition of a normal guy getting powers and becoming a superhero. The character is so beautifully written that he never wanted to kill anyone but hates bullies, hence a shield becoming a perfect addition, showing he was always for defense and no kills unless it's necessary. Could you discuss one his backstory? Two, your thoughts on Cap moving near near an Age of Ultron. Was he bluffing to save Thor's pride or was he not ready yet? And three, your take on passing the baton to new Captain Americas. Well, Raj, we did touch upon the passing the baton to new Captain Americas.

SPEAKER_05 3:45:32

Yeah, you you know how we feel about that.

SPEAKER_01 3:45:34

Yeah, our in a nutshell, our two senses, Captain America and Steve Rogers are one of the same, and we don't think they should have been passed on.

SPEAKER_05 3:45:42

Or at least the way they're doing it. There's there's a way I see I think there is a good path that would make sense, but it also means really giving us a clear uh vision of what it means to have that mantle. Kind of like what my gripe is with the sword and what it means to wield the hammer. Sometimes I feel like those things are unclear in the MCU and we just take them for granted right up until someone else has it, and then we realize, oh, something's wrong with that picture. And yeah, so we're yeah, we don't yeah, this passing it on is a tough one for sure.

SPEAKER_01 3:46:15

Yeah. What are your thoughts, Ike, on Captain America moving Mew Mew, you and Mu Mew? Uh in age of all Trump. Do you think, according to Raj, was he actually bluffing to save Thor's pride because it did move slightly, or was he just not ready yet to pick it out?

SPEAKER_05 3:46:32

So I'll be honest with you. I think this is one of those things that they don't ever want us to know an answer to, which is kind of fun because we can in our we can make our own canon of it, right? So nobody's ever gonna be wrong. I will be completely honest. I think personally that I'll tell you what I want it to be, and I'll tell you what I really think it is. Okay. I want it to be that Steve realized he could and was like, well, I'm not gonna do that to Thor. Because maybe part of Steve was like, I don't want to roll Asgard either. You know what I mean? Like and I think that Thor kind of presented it like that. But the other part of me was like, I think it was just showing how close he is to being able to. Because I I think, yeah, I think there's an argument to say that his journey from that moment to when you get an end game when he does get the hammer in his hand, there's a moment in there that we could have a good discussion about maybe why I'd think he earned a title of being worthy enough to have the hammer. Once again, though, it's hard to describe that because there is no set path to, you know, how do you earn having the hammer, right? So you know what? I'm gonna give you a definitive answer. I think he just saved Thor's feelings and he and he could lift it. That's my my I have to give you, I'll give you the definitive answer of that. I'd like to think that he had to earn it towards the end, but then I can't give you a good example of how Thor ever earned it because all he had to do is stand in front of a machine and almost die, and he got his hammer back. I don't know. Capt's been doing that since since day one, since he jumped on the grenade in the very first movie that we just got done talking about. How he doesn't get to wield the hammer after that, what else do you need to do? So personally, I'm gonna go with the fun answer. I think he went and it moved, and he's like, Oh, oh, guess not.

SPEAKER_00 3:48:19

Yep.

SPEAKER_05 3:48:20

I'm gonna because he kind of does give him that, yeah, and then you know, and even Thor is like, oh man, yeah, woof. Yep. But then I think Thor knows it, so then later on when Thor's laying on the ground and he does it, he goes, I knew it. Like, yeah. So I think I'm gonna go with that one. That makes more sense to me. I like it, it's more fun.

SPEAKER_01 3:48:37

The bluffing one kind of makes more sense. I don't know if he did it to save Thor's pride. I I think Kat did, he's a nice guy. He is a nice guy, I think he did it to save his pride. I think he did it, and he realized he could lift it up, and he's like, I'm not gonna touch those waters. Yeah, but this is not the time and place for that.

SPEAKER_05 3:48:54

I still think it was just being nice to Thor.

SPEAKER_01 3:48:56

He probably was, it probably was both, to be honest. It's probably both. You're right. You're right. But I part of me wants to say that he's thinking time and place, Steve. And now I know I could do this, I'm not gonna.

SPEAKER_05 3:49:05

You're thinking about it.

SPEAKER_01 3:49:06

When you get to endgame, he is you in endgame.

SPEAKER_05 3:49:08

Right. When you get to endgame, he's pretty confident. He's just bone, like he knows it's coming. Yeah, like there's no, there's no, like, oh, it's one ditch last ditch effort. Yeah, he's a bam guy.

SPEAKER_01 3:49:16

There's no struggle, he doesn't just walk up to it and try to lift it up, and all of a sudden he's got it.

SPEAKER_05 3:49:20

No, it's this it flies to him. He don't just pick it up, it flies to him. Yeah, yeah. So I knew it. Yeah, I love it. Yeah, I like I like that part of it. Thor says, I knew it, just as Daniels kicks him like nine stories deep into the ground, like, oh my god. I've always been like, ooh, every time that happens, like you knew it, but your face is gone. Like now you're just oh my god. You just kicked your nose off your head. Like, yeah, oh, yeah, no, yeah. So there's your definitive answer for me and him, for me and Sam. Yeah, he definitely he could pick it up for sure. Yeah, which is awesome, right? That's that's what we want it to be.

SPEAKER_01 3:50:03

And you asked for us to explain Steve's backstory, and thankfully, this movie does it mainly for you.

SPEAKER_05 3:50:08

Yeah, it does, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:50:09

Um, there's nothing really too much more to add lib on on it, other than he is this kid from Brooklyn who is too scrawny to be part of the military, and also had a laundry list of things like he had asthma, he has all this other different stuff that you see in the movie, you're like, the first one alone, he was wasn't qualified.

SPEAKER_05 3:50:26

Yeah, and then to add on to the emotional part of the backstory and idea of kind of what you touched on in your comments was he definitely it this is your prime, what it really means to be a superhero, right? Because we can always say the the most favorite and fun and most emotional superheroes are the ones that don't have powers and they still do amazing things, like the Iron Man's, the Batman, who are just regular guys doing amazing stuff. Well, this is a guy who is given powers, but and but it's this whole against the bullies thing, that's what it's always been, right? And that's what and that's what I think in the in the general sense comic books, even from the start, really were all about. You hear Stan talk all the time, or or Stan Lee talk all the time about a lot of his characters were driven off of anti-bullying and all that. Spider-Man being a big one of that too, you know? And Cap is just a perfect example. It not only does it embody like this idea of the American dream and uh a pureness to being good and doing the right thing, but to stand up for what's right. And then to I mean, this not to quote a Spider-Man quote, but you know, with great power comes great responsibility, and Cap takes that on even better, I think, than Spider-Man takes it on, right? So it's like it's Cap is and and you know it's funny because before I didn't like Captain America, he came off as Superman to me, not because of his powers, but he just kind of came off as that guy that kind of whips you in the butt with a towel in the in the uh in the shower room, right? He just even though I know he was a good guy, but he just seemed like how would you relate to a dude that's like this nuclear family from the you know 40s and 50s that just you how you're not gonna have a good conversation with a guy like that in today's age, but then the way they did it in the MCU and presented him with like that where he is adaptable, where he does move forward and he is who he still is, even from the core. You know, and some of the phrases he even says later on in the movies are great because they remind you of how he used to talk when he was young. Like, yeah, it's it's it's it's yeah, it's fantastic, fantastic stuff.

SPEAKER_01 3:52:27

I I feel the exact same we you about Raj, that a typical cookie cutter superhero is an ordinary guy, gets superpowers, and decides to do good. Cool. Cap was doing good before the super soldier serum. Yeah, and so that's what made him different than any other superhero is that no matter what, if he never got injected with that serum, he still would have jumped on that grenade, he still would have ran after the guy that killed his scientist friend, he still would have tried to save his best friend behind enemy lines.

SPEAKER_05 3:52:57

It's just he actually could accomplish those other things because yeah, and I can't wait to see how and when he tells Doom he can do this all day.

SPEAKER_01 3:53:06

Yes, all right, so thank you for that, uh Raj. And now we're gonna move on to our final scores, and we're gonna be wrapping up this episode in one moment, guys. All right, thank you for staying with us. If you're stuck with us this long, please do what Raj did and comment on our post. We really appreciate it for the algorithm, and we will give you a shout out as you hear right now on the podcast. Thank you so much. All right, Ike, multiverse meter, your story out of two.

SPEAKER_05 3:53:32

Oh, story out of two. I give it a 1.5.

SPEAKER_01 3:53:35

You do.

SPEAKER_05 3:53:35

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 3:53:36

Characters out of two.

SPEAKER_05 3:53:37

I give it a uh 1.5.

SPEAKER_01 3:53:39

I gave it a two. Action and visuals out of two. One. I gave it a two. Uh emotion and stakes out of two. 1.5. Give it a two. Alright, rewatchability and MCU impact.

SPEAKER_05 3:53:53

I give it a one on rewatchability for sure. And because of that, I have to stick with it.

SPEAKER_01 3:53:57

Yep, I'm gonna say one, the same for me. Alright, so my final score was an 8.5 overall. Um, I think what would your be?

SPEAKER_05 3:54:07

Sorry guys. Um, there's too many things in it that I really had a hard time with, and rewatchability-wise, I'm gonna give it a 5.5. Alright, so I like the little sound you got. I mean, it's good. That's definitely gonna set that bar for that medium range going forward for me in some of these. Hey, still a great movie, guys.

SPEAKER_01 3:54:29

Alright, so the official Goodell multiverse score is a seven out of ten. Not bad.

SPEAKER_05 3:54:35

All right, not bad, not bad. You know what's funny? It's funny, it's like you go a little high sometimes. I might go a little low, but when we average it out, you're almost like, that actually looks about right. That makes sense. That actually looks about right. You know what I mean? Like, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:54:48

The poster, I picture seven out of ten written down. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 3:54:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:54:53

And post credit scene, I'm sure is a ten for ten out of you.

SPEAKER_05 3:54:55

Yep, 100%. Fantastic.

SPEAKER_01 3:54:57

So final verdict. Final verdict, your one sentence final review.

SPEAKER_05 3:55:02

A must see, gotta watch it. Start to the Avengers.

SPEAKER_01 3:55:07

Perfect. All right, mine is one of the best origin films MZU has done, and good that they laid the foundation like they did.

SPEAKER_05 3:55:15

Very good.

SPEAKER_01 3:55:16

All right. I like it. Well, awesome. Thank you guys so much for bearing with us and joining us for the Goodell Multiverse podcast. Uh, what are we doing next time, like?

SPEAKER_05 3:55:28

So, next time, guys, we're gonna have some news for you. We're not sure what that's gonna be yet, but I'm sure we'll come up with some juicy stuff. Um, it's sometime throughout the week. I don't know if it'll be this week or next week, but it'll definitely be within the next seven to fourteen days. I'm gonna be putting up our first um Dark Dimensions episode. I'm gonna be filming it in the next couple days. We'll see where we go with it. Um also uh we're gonna be doing a we're gonna be doing a review of Daredevil episode uh six, season two. Let's hope it's not another member berries episode. And guess what, guys? We're there. We're gonna start our part one, it looks like. We're gonna try to split this up into two because this is gonna be a long one to talk about. There's a lot of character stuff going on. We're gonna do part one of Avengers, the first Avengers movies, guys. We're there to the first Avengers movie. We are marching right along here on our way to Doomsday, and we're at Avengers one. Part one of Avengers.

SPEAKER_01 3:56:22

This will be the conclusion of phase one. That's right. Officially, we finally made it there, guys. Thank you for bearing with us. And yeah, I was as I'm preparing my notes to get ready for an advance. I'm thinking there's no way in one episode we could talk about the first Avengers.

SPEAKER_05 3:56:37

I didn't think we talked this long about this movie. Oh, so yeah, part one of the yeah, we'll definitely figure out, guys, where the mid part is gonna be for that, and we'll go ahead with that.

SPEAKER_01 3:56:47

So yeah, but until then, guys, we are on Instagram, we are on Facebook, we are on TikTok, and of course, we are on YouTube. So you can stream our podcast on BuzzSprout, on Apple, on Amazon, on Spotify, and of course, you can watch us on YouTube. Please like, please subscribe, please tell a friend, please help us get out there and help promote us a little bit. We certainly need all right. So until we see you next time, guys.