Ep8 - Iron Man 3 with Daredevil BA S2 Ep7 Review

The Goodell Bros discuss the news of the week - including Lanterns, Spider-Man Noir, The Authority and Mortal Kombat 2 - then react to the latest crazy rumors - including RDJ in the MCU, Young Avengers film, and the undisclosed cast of Avengers Doomsday - a breakdown of the latest episode of Daredevil Born Again. Then concluding with a Retrospective Review of Iron Man 3!

Transcript

SPEAKER_06 0:00

On every timeline in every universe, there's one thing that we always talk about. Marvel. Hello, everybody. Welcome to the Goodell Multiverse Podcast. My name's Isaiah Goodell.

SPEAKER_00 0:15

And I'm Sam Goodell.

SPEAKER_06 0:16

And we are on episode eight today, guys. Woo! Yeah, exciting, right? This is we've been plowing right through these movies.

SPEAKER_00 0:23

We were just talking about how fast this is actually going. That last episode, if you haven't seen it yet, Avengers, we did a retrospective on Avengers 1. Man, we had fun with that.

SPEAKER_06 0:34

I gotta tell you, Sam, just real quick before I get into our agenda, I was listening to our last episode this last week, and I listened to it twice, which is wild because it's long. Which is good though, because that's why we break it up in parts. But I enjoy listening to us. We got to do something to be doing something right. Because I listen to a lot of podcasts, and just listening to us again is refreshing. And I I always was worried about how I'd feel about my voice and listening to it. You know, but when I listen to our podcast, it's like, hey, I'm glad someone's saying that about that, you know. And I thought I like that we're saying certain things. I hope that you guys appreciate that too. We're trying. That's at least our our our angle here is we we hear from a lot of different podcasters, and we might repeat some of the stuff they say too, but I really, you know, we really want to try to put other options out there too, or specifically ours. But yeah, it was a good time.

SPEAKER_00 1:22

I completely agree. I like re-listening to anything that I do that's recording-wise for especially like for this podcast, because uh it it just helps me better for the next episode if I'm doing too many ums, if I'm over speaking, if I'm doing too loud, you know, things like that. But also, it's just the um I just I'm that's one reason why I'm happy for this podcast, is because sometimes the common narrative out there would be go for this or we like this and things like that, and be like, not everyone feels the same. So it's good to have healthy debate and healthy rebuttals and just more content out there because there's a vast difference of opinions on these things, and I'm finding that out. Each retrospective we're doing in these movies is making me rethink how I view the Avengers movies and uh MCU as a whole, and it's really fun, it's really, really fun, honestly. So I hope you guys, like my brother said, are enjoying this too. So definitely please uh press the like button on this video if you're watching. If you're uh not watching or you're streaming, we do have a YouTube version of this, of course. So please subscribe to our social media. We really need that help to get the algorithm going. Comment, even if you don't like what we're saying, please comment on it because it helps us out tremendously. Um, like uh there's no such thing as bad publicity for stuff like this, guys.

SPEAKER_05 2:42

Yeah, hit us with it. We'll take it.

SPEAKER_00 2:43

Yeah, that's fine. Hey, you're helping us, and so please do.

SPEAKER_06 2:47

Well, with that said, guys, we do have a heck of an episode today. We I'm gonna give you our agenda. We got a lot of stuff going on, okay? So just to let you know, for agenda for this episode, our multiverse minute, we got several news stories, a good four of them actually. And we got some good rumor mill rundown stuff to really talk about today from things that we found all week. And uh we also got our branch point breakdown of Daredevil, Daredevil, sorry, Daredevil season two, episode seven, last one before the finale, right? Yeah, yep. And then we also have our main event, which is our retrospective on Iron Man 3. Guys, we're there. We have made it to Iron Man Three. The end of a trilogy. Can you believe it? It's actually wild to think about the soon of it, too, right?

SPEAKER_00 3:32

Credit, man. Feels like we just started this podcast yesterday. And thank you for any of you who have been listening to us since the very beginning. Please encourage your friends and family members and all your loved ones and all your ones you don't like to follow us. Yeah, even your enemies. Send us there. So thank you. Well, um, shall we begin with the multiverse minute? Let's do it. Why don't you go ahead and start us off with our first story with our first uh news story? All right, we're gonna begin in just a moment. All right, guys, thank you so much for tuning in to the Videl Multiverse podcast. We're gonna talk about the multiverse minute, even if it's 45 minutes, the news of the week. So today is May 1st, 2026. So happy May Day, everybody. And the first thing actually we're gonna talk about is a DC topic. So the Lanterns trailer, some things went down, guys, even this past week. It was taken off of every um major official account online, uh, the trailer completely. And in the same day, a new marketing promo art was rolling out, and that stayed on track, that was on schedule, and then suddenly everything was re-uploaded with better graphics and better imagery. And we definitely have to talk about that because that's you don't see that happen too often. Um, so yeah, last Saturday, uh DC Studios decided to suddenly pull its upcoming HBO Max Series Lanterns trailer everywhere online, yet promotional material was still rolling out. Then suddenly things were re-edited and uploaded, and the the major sticking point out there, Ike, is that it was due to fan backlash. So, what are your thoughts initially on this?

SPEAKER_06 5:25

You know, initially it it's definitely strange because, like, I mean, this is a trailer that everyone was waiting for. It's a big deal. I personally am not a big huge fan of the Green Lantern core and all that. That that's a big sell on me. So you have to like you really got to try to get me interested in what we're talking about when it comes down to Green Lantern and everything. So it's an important trailer for to get guys like me to be interested in the show. Um, I got a chance to see the trailer before it was down, which is good. Uh I'm sure there's some people out there that haven't pumped in a lot because I think it got a lot of hits, but like there's probably some people like, wait a minute, I didn't even get a chance to watch that yet, and that's too bad, you know, because it's a good trailer. Um, I have several thoughts on this. My initial thought was, uh oh, uh-oh, like, is there I mean I hope I initially thought that they were servicing the fan problem with fans being upset about the colors. Guys, I get it. Would we like it to be that? Sure. If you're if you're die hard, my Green Lantern's gotta be perfect, then I get it. I understand that passion because I have it for many things as well. But it's also now your story to tell, and the colors of their suits aren't gonna make a difference on how good the story is. It might help, it might feel not as personal to you if it's if Spider-Man's suit is purple instead of red. It'd be weird, but we'd still watch it. And if it was good, how do you say it's bad just because it's purple, right? So I think that I would feel disappointed in James Gunn and them if they caved into just people online being upset about what they saw. You know, then once you read into it and start looking at what's going on, what really happened in this, from my understanding, it's not very clear truly what really happened. Um, but Christian Harloff uh did a nice little segment on his podcast, and he explained that some of it could be due to licensing issues with music and things that are in the trailer. And this is something that DC and Orwana brothers and all of them have had a hard time with in the past as well, especially when it comes down to showing their material like on other people, like if we were to show the trailer now while we're talking about it, is there's like a double licensing thing. I don't quote me 100% because he went into it and I was driving, so I couldn't stop to write the notes down. But he did say that there's something like that that there could they could be. There's nothing official about that, by the way. He also did put, so just so you know, this is all speculation, but it could be as simple as uh oh, we messed up something and someone's getting fired for sure, you know, because that's a marketing material, it's costing them money every time it's not out because it costs a lot of money to make. So I bet you this gets fixed and that same trailer gets released again. Now, when and how soon, I don't know if that's what the problem is. I'm sure it's being worked on right now. Um, but because if it's to if it's to change things, then that's a shame on James Gunn and then that then that makes me feel worse about what we're getting out of DC, the DCU, because I am excited to see where this DCU goes, and part of it is a show like this, you know, or like we've talked with Clayface, where I think we should keep our mind open to what that could be, even though it on surface looks crazy, right? So yeah, I would, you know, you never know, guys. This could go a lot of different ways. My my knee-jerk reaction was uh oh, ooh, they gave in the fans. Don't do that, you know. Um, because I definitely don't think you should. Uh tell your story, be brave, because you might be surprised. I mean, do you think Singer, Brian Singer, would have given in the fans if it came down if they knew those suits are gonna be black in the movie? You know, it's like we got them in a trailer, and that was the first thing people complained about was oh, the X-Men are in black suits, what's going on? Watch the movie, it's amazing. You know what I mean? It's things work, guys, in in the guise of what it's gonna be. Um, so yeah, but I I personally though, now that I've heard some of this, I think it's a license, I think it's a licensing thing that's going on, and we're just in the midst of seeing it getting fixed.

SPEAKER_01 9:28

Well, I'll have to listen to that segment from Christian Harloff, right?

SPEAKER_06 9:32

Yeah, I'll send it to you. Maybe we can tag it onto this onto our thing some somehow. I don't know how to do that. We'll have to figure that out. Yeah, well, but anyway, it's gonna be a good one. Or at least put on there in the comments where to look for it for this.

SPEAKER_00 9:42

Yeah, something like that, because uh we definitely want to give a shout out to you, Christian. I've listened to you a couple of times too, and we like you get manned. So yeah. Um the my initial thought to this was the fan backlash, personally, because I just like you, I had the chance to watch the trailer before it was taken down, and then I have seen parts of it when it was re-edited and brought up. Mind you, I haven't watched a complete full trailer, but the imagery alone, even the the um the logo is green, and I know the biggest so I'll be honest, Marvel is my number one, DC is my number two. I'll watch DC if I'm really bored of Marvel, which is like 0.5% chance that will ever happen, honestly. But that's just me. Um, I do know enough about DC because Green Lantern himself is one of the core Justice League characters, and I like the Justice League. I thought that I think they're a cool team. I'm not too much into the mythos of the Green Lantern core and the lantern cords and all that stuff, but I do know uh I have a friend who is a hardcore Green Lantern fan over anybody else. He will pick Green Lantern. I'm like, okay, tell me about this. What is it that's intriguing to you? What is it that makes it so um unique? Why does he have such a fan base? Like, just tell me as someone who's genuinely curious, and it is all about the colors. Each of these lantern cores, there are all different colors. The colors mean a certain thing, and this talks about similar to Thor with his hammer, whoever should be worthy can hold me or near Mew Mew. Um, the ring is similar. You the ring chooses you the to be the guardian of that world or universe, however it is. Like I said, guys, I'm not a Green Lantern like 101 guy, but this is from what I know of, so please correct me if I'm wrong in the comments. But when this trailer initially came out, and it they were very clear, this is Jon Stewart and Hal Jordan, two Green Lanterns, and then ever all the imagery showed brown suits, it showed different colors that were not green, and it doesn't help when one of the producers or writers, I should say, of the show recently came out on the podcast saying, Yeah, the color thing is stupid. Be like, wait a minute. If now I'm like I said, I'm not a Green Lantern like super fan here, but I do believe if you are working on a project, you need to know what the project is and be passionate enough about what makes the project good for the fans to have a fan base if you're gonna work on it. So if you come out and say that the colors are stupid, why are we bound by the colors? And then you find out that the Green Lantern core, the reason why they're called the Green Lanterns is because of all these different colors and they all mean a different thing. That's kind of sad. That does a disservice to the fans that you're trying to promote this movie to and this show to this project. So that's my initial understanding of this. It does look more green, and I think that they did that on purpose. It could have been I don't think personally that it's a story change they did. It's not like they just went through and did some reshoots and they recut this, they redid the uh whole trailer just as a new story. I think the story's saying the same. I just think that they realized from the fans in particular that, oh, these colors do mean something to them. And so if that means turning the brown shade up a couple notches to reveal more green, maybe the special effects to make the green the ring look green and glowing, fine. That's if there's I don't think that it's changing the story. I just think visually it's looking appealing to people that are gonna freely promote it for you online. That's my understanding.

SPEAKER_06 13:27

Yeah, I mean, that makes sense. I guess my I maybe I didn't realize how important the colors were because like I said, I don't know them. I do realize there are different colors. I did see the old Green Lantern movie and they just they explained that a lot. Um, but we also don't know the context. This is just a trailer. I mean, there could be a reason why that suits Brown. What if he's like in exile or something and this is what you get while you're in exile, or we don't know what's going on here, right? So for fans to just freak out because it's not right what it should be right away, to me, still feels very knee-jerk reactionary if that's what it is. Because you can add these colors in and do all this without pulling a trailer.

SPEAKER_00 14:05

That's true.

SPEAKER_06 14:06

But you can say, hey, look, you know, the show comes out and everything's green. Like, oh wow, the thing was wrong. Cool. Yeah, there's tons of trailers out there that have whole entire scenes that aren't even in the movie.

SPEAKER_00 14:18

And to be honest, guys, and I'm not saying this as a disc to DC, but announcing a lantern trailer was not bringing up the hype that I think the James Gunn thought it would. And so having a controversial trailer be released, making everyone talk about it, and then pulling it and putting it back up, that could be just some super genius James Gunn move for us to talk about.

SPEAKER_06 14:42

Yeah, it might be. And but I also don't think he cares if you're hyped or not. He's just gonna make it because what's the worst he's gonna do? Lose his job, the guy still has made how much money doing what he's done. And until he makes a bad movie, you're not gonna get him kicked out.

SPEAKER_02 14:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 14:58

So this might look bad, the reception might not be there yet, but if it comes out and it hits, it it's no one's gonna remember this. And that that's just like with Superman. He is on record saying it doesn't need, it just needs to break even. I don't care if it's a billion dollar movie because it's more important to him that it's good. Because if it's good, he'll make more because you'll want more. And it was good enough. You know, it's just just it's just Superman's not our cup of tea, so it's kind of like, eh, whatever. But like it was good enough. I mean, it's not the worst movie, you know. So I think that's what we're gonna be getting from him, is his attitude is also I really don't care if you like it or not. You know, and I and I think that that's why I definitely lean more towards it's a there's something going on that's like a licensing thing that's got this thing taken down. Because a lot of the stuff that you can fix for fans, you don't pull the whole trailer for where nobody can see it. Like in to me, that shows we're not allowed to, which means something's going on that is on that's not because even if you're gonna change it, you'd still leave this one out there, you'd still want the marketing to be there, yeah. And then then, you know, just out of nowhere, drop another one with a little different tweak in here and there, and people say, Oh, look, it's fixed. They did that with Sonic, actually.

SPEAKER_00 16:14

I was thinking the same thing. The the first thing is that the first one. They never took that trailer out. Yeah, it looked everyone complained because it doesn't look like Sonic, and I'd be like, All right, you watch it and you're like, come on, guys, you could do better. The video game's literally right there on your shelf.

SPEAKER_06 16:27

Yeah, but then they released uh updated version of the trailer, and it's you could see both of them at one point in time, you know, and you know, and that was a good thing that fans complained about because that Sonic was weird.

SPEAKER_02 16:41

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 16:42

They they I knew what they were trying to do, I know what they were trying to do, and I kind of give them a lot of credit for it, but like I think they underestimated, just make them look like the cartoon. We don't need that's the thing. That's a weird-looking pedophile-looking hedgehog.

SPEAKER_00 16:56

I love your eagerness and creativity, but at the same time, when these characters are already made and written for you, it's not that hard. Right. Don't make it harder. Your work is hard enough to make it look believable. Yeah, yeah. So don't go the extra mile to for some statement. Yeah, whatever. So the question is for you guys on the lantern TV show. Do you agree with Ike's assessment? Maybe it was a licensing issue. That's why I was pulled massively across all accounts. Do you believe a little bit more of my thoughts? It was more of a fan backlash, and they're like, let's re-edit this and reanimate this and make it look a little greener. But it could be a mixture of both, could be everything, to be honest. So it's like all one package. Let's just redo the whole thing, guys. What are your thoughts? Please let us know in the comments below and share this with a friend. We definitely want to know.

SPEAKER_05 17:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:45

All right. Ike, take it away for the next one. This is gonna be an interesting all right, guys.

SPEAKER_06 17:49

So some more Spider-Man news. We're maybe we'll talk about Spider-Man right until it comes out, obviously, because it's we can't wait. So Tom Holland announces recent behind the scenes or recent reshoots, right? Yeah, to add new footage. And Amazon Spider Noir releases a new trailer with exclusive early access for certain prime subscribers.

SPEAKER_01 18:10

Yes.

SPEAKER_06 18:11

So I yeah, I gotta be honest. I I don't know, I don't really care for any kind of the early access stuff. Me either. I don't, it never really ever applies to me. It's cool, people are gonna get it. I can wait till it comes out. I we literally just watched the trailer because I Sam had asked me, have you seen a new one that just dropped? I'm like, no, I didn't. So he held his computer up and I watched it, and wow, it should not look that good. It's has no right looking as good as it does. But it looks great. You know, I I these early access people are gonna are in for a treat, I think.

SPEAKER_00 18:44

Yeah, no, all it is, like you said, it's just early access. It just means a couple days in advance, maybe at most, because this is coming out within the next couple weeks. It's like May 27th, I believe it comes out. So, guys, whether it's coming out early access on the 24th or the 20th or tomorrow, it's not like it's I mean, I get your gripe if you're paying a lot of money for Amazon Prime, and this is a Prime exclusive, so you can only find it there. And then Amazon adds an extra layer of, hey, purchase this and we'll even give it to you quicker. Be like, why you're already asking people to pay like I don't know how much a year for Amazon Prime? So why are you adding on this extra thing? Yeah, I don't get that. It's not like this is a theatrical release where now they're like you could watch it at home for an at-home price. I get that because they need to somehow make up their money back from it on at-home viewers, but this I think that's unnecessary. But at the same time, for me personally, it's not a make it or break it for this. Um how'd you feel about the trailer though?

SPEAKER_01 19:52

Trailer, awesome.

SPEAKER_00 19:53

It's it's a show, correct? It's not a it is a show, it is a show, and this comes back to what we talked about in the previous episode of where the Spider-Man rights go and things like that. So this Spider-Man and please correct me if I'm wrong, internet. But this is a different Spider-Man. This isn't Peter Parker, I think this is Ben Riley, I think they call him. Uh, he's a detective. Spider Noir is his own special comic line, and I love that they're filming this in both color and black and white. Yeah, yeah. So if you like that black and white taste, definitely watch it in that. It looks cool. But for me, I watched the trailer in color, and I gotta tell you, it looks magnificent in color. Yeah, it's not like they just put a filter on it for the color version. They really did film this very elegantly well, and I'm actually genuinely excited to see who is this character because I don't know too much about Spider Noir. I know nothing about him. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 20:49

Yeah, it's uh I'm actually like yeah, it's kind of like Nicolas Cage and him. I can't believe we got 60-something year old Nicolas Cage playing Spider-Man. Right, like I'm all for this, man. This is so cool. Yeah, it's like this is I can't wait to do get this done. Yeah, I can't wait to do our branch point on this show.

SPEAKER_00 21:11

Yeah, we did decide that, guys. After Daredevil, while we're waiting for Vision Quest to come out, the next branch point breakdown segments are gonna be every week's episode of Spider Noir.

SPEAKER_06 21:20

Yeah, I mean, why not? We're gonna give it a try, you know, and it it just looks the the cast in this looks great. I had no idea Brendan Gleason was in this movie. Holy moly, guys, he's one of the best actors out there, he's very underrated, he's and he's excellent. And he looks like he's the villain in this, right? Is what appeared to me in the trailer.

SPEAKER_01 21:38

It looks like there's multiple villains.

SPEAKER_06 21:40

Yeah, it looks like there's a lot of stuff going on. Yeah, it just looks good, it just looks like a lot of fun. Yeah, and Nick Cage, guys, come on. We need more Nick Cage in our life. You guys, no matter what people say, he let him do his crap movies, but when he when he's on, he's on, you know, like and I I I'm excited to see that. So, but the first part of this news is Tom. Holland announces recent uh reshoots to add new footage.

SPEAKER_00 22:03

Um real online guys that it was released, so definitely go and check check that out on our YouTube page where he gets a quick reaction to it. That was really good.

SPEAKER_06 22:13

Yeah, and I'll mirror some of the stuff I said in that basically is it all movies have these reshoots. There's nothing new here. Um him saying it like that, I don't know. I I think it's kind of clickbaity, to be honest. I don't think there's if there is things being added, that's the time to do it, isn't reshoot, especially if it's easy stuff. And I can't think of probably every one of these superhero movies we talk about has done this. Like, oh by the way, let's add this, let's add that, let's add this.

SPEAKER_00 22:41

And I will say there's nothing controversial except for personal fanfare of Gene Gray that's come out about the Spider-Man movie where I can see them say, Oh, we need to correct this. You know, Spider-Man has been the writing behind it, the directing behind it, everything's been pretty consistent of we are ready for this movie, we are gonna do it on our timely schedule, and reshoots are just like with every movie, it's part of the thing. Because you get into the editing room and you're like, that scene doesn't work, we need to look at it from a different view, and therefore, there's two days of reshoots right there on just that scene. You know, it's just it's simple stuff, guys. Um, and I don't think if they did add Jean Gray, they're not gonna in the reshoots take her out. If she's in it, she's in it. So we'll just have to figure that out when we get there.

SPEAKER_06 23:27

Yeah, yeah. I wouldn't stress too much about whatever this is, guys. I I doubt it's anything huge. It's some of it is timing. Some of it's like, hey, we only got this person for a couple days, so they're gonna go in a reshoot category. They could be shooting some completely new footage, but it's only because they set this time apart in the beginning of all this, before this movie even started production. Part of its production notes was so many days of reshoots for these reasons. Every single movie you watch, guys, has this, every single one. Some more extensive than the others. The stories you want to worry about is when they say, you know, we're doing extensive reshoots and the movie now is moved to a different date. Those are things that you should be like, oh no. Yeah, that means something's changed in the process of production.

SPEAKER_02 24:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 24:11

You know, when they already have planned this and they haven't moved the date, then you're you're all right. It's just normal stuff. Now they could add wild, who knows? There could be something wild in this. It could be a whole new scene. Thanos could show up. Who knows? Why not? Everyone else is in this movie, obviously. So it's well, you know, let's see what happens.

SPEAKER_00 24:28

Like so, but yeah, maybe Professor X just roll up in there.

SPEAKER_06 24:33

Just rolling by.

SPEAKER_00 24:34

Yeah. I played laughs though. That'd be funny. Yeah. Uh I wish the best cameo could have been in for this movie, Stan Lee play Professor X. No, I know just roll by and be like, huh?

SPEAKER_06 24:48

I still a part of me thinks that it wouldn't be in bad taste to put Stan Lee in these movies. Like uh, you know, I know I'm gonna get a lot of backlash on that. There's just how cool would it be like just to have his face there? Or even if you start doing like photos of him and things, you know, because you can do a lot of backlog of photos where you're not generating him AI or making him computers on you. I don't know. It's it's it's it's it's a shame to not see him. It's definitely a miss when we don't see him in these movies.

SPEAKER_00 25:19

Well, there was a rumor after his passing that he had filmed some stuff in advance of just random stuff to talk about that you could have like generically insert into some of these films. Obviously, we haven't seen that since his passing. Yeah, so maybe that wasn't true, maybe it was just a rumor out there. But if there's backlog footage like that, B-roll footage that is just basic funny stuff while they're trying to film his scene for a movie, you can use that, and then it's not eight eye, and then you get your Stanley fix for the two seconds you see him. Because that's a highlight when we're reviewing all of our retrospectives. I'm actually looking for Stan Lee, and then it dawns on me after Endgame, you don't see that anymore.

SPEAKER_06 26:02

Yeah, because it's not new to do characters with CGI that are of actors who have passed away. It worked in well in Star Wars, it worked well in Alien Romulus. There's a lot, and I mean, it as long as it's tasteful and everybody agrees it's there, and his estate or whoever would have the rights after he passed away got what they deserve for it, and everyone was yeah, and he got the recognition. Because I'll be honest, one of the biggest missed opportunities I think Marvel's ever gonna have in the long run is when we get to a live version of what a watcher really is, it should it should be Stan Lee playing the watcher because he shows up in every movie, and it's like that'd be the great disguise of this. He's witnessing all this happening, right? From a different point of view. And how cool would it be if he's just you know, maybe I'm just thinking that'd be real neat. And to me, it wouldn't be oh distasteful because he's passed away. No, actually, that'd be honoring him as the watcher of his creation, right? Like to me, it's like you're doing him a service of this is yours.

SPEAKER_00 26:59

Think about it in this aspect, he's still watching down on us. Yeah, really, if you want to look at it that way. There you go. Yeah, but anyways, that's just that's just our thoughts on that.

SPEAKER_06 27:08

Yeah, anyways, let us know, guys, what you think about this. You are you worried about the reshoots? Do you think uh that you know there's trouble in what in Spider-Man waters, or do you think it's just you know nonsense and they're just doing extra stuff? Because you know, it could be either way, but I thought it's I think it's uh the uh the latter. But um, and also what do you think about this Spider-Man War coming out? And I hope you guys watch the branch point on that. Comment below, guys, on how you feel about this uh news story and what do you think about those two things, please? All right, Sam, this was the last one. Almost. I was surprised for you.

SPEAKER_00 27:41

This this one, guys, if you are a DC fan and a mega DC fan, and just so happened to find your way onto our Marvel Goodell Multiverse podcasts, please enlighten us in the comments below. How important is this team? But it was revealed by James Gunn this past week that a film he had wanted to do theatrically, uh called The Authority, based on a team in DC comics called The Authority, has been shelved because apparently they quite don't know how to write a script for it. And that uh it brought up a couple big questions for me. So I wrote down here among James Gunn's ambitious DC Studios projects, a theatrical film focused on the authority has been shelved as this at this time per gunn himself saying it. And I kept thinking, who on earth are these people? Because like I said, I'm not that big of a DC nerd or DC fan. I do like DC, don't get me wrong, but the only big team I know in DC, like big, big team, is the Justice League. And then you hear of the Titans and some of these other groups and teams and things like that. But I'm like, who is the authority? So I did a little digging, just so I knew. And to our audience who may be thinking the same thing, how important are these people? Is this even a thing we should talk about? Is this something we should care about? Let me tell you about what this team is, and then you make up your mind if this is something for your cup, if this was your cup of tea or not. And if you think this is a missed opportunity having their own theatrical film or not. So The Authority is a superhero team in DC comics known for being far more aggressive and morally flexible than traditional heroes like Superman or Batman. They're basically save the world at any cost heroes, off often crossing lines the Justice League wouldn't. Their origins are the team was originally created by Warren Ellis and Brian Hitch in 1999 under DC's Wild Storm Imprint, which later became part of the main DC universe in the comics. Their debut series, The Authority, helped redefine modern superhero storytelling with cinematic action and darker themes for a comic book. Uh the Authority doesn't wait for permission or worry much about politics. They intervene globally, overthrow dictators, stop wars, and eliminate threats permanently if needed. Think of them as more of an extreme, provocative version of the Justice League. To me, it sounds like the boys, but in DC form. Um some of the key members include uh Jenny Sparks, um, who can control electricity and she's the team leader. Uh Midnighter, a brutal Batman-like strategist who can predict fights before they happen. Apollo, a Superman-level powerhouse who draws energy from the sun. Sounds just like a Kryptonian. Um, The Engineer, a nano has nanotechnology in her blood, letting her reshape her body into weapons or machines. That is kind of cool. Um Jack Hawksmore, who um I'm guessing he is the hawk-like figure in here, gains powers from cities themselves. How? That's very interesting. Um, the Doctor, a mystical shaman with vast magical abilities. And really, why do they matter? I guess it's a big shift in the superhero comics at that time. It pushed the idea that heroes could be politically active, violent, and morally gray. Um, and that is definitely influenced in shows like on Amazon's The Boys and things like that. So I guess Ike I'm gonna ask you what do you think of this team? Do you care that they're not gonna be a film anymore? Or is this the DC dark horse that we're probably not gonna see, if not for a while?

SPEAKER_06 31:26

So Yeah, I my brain is everywhere on this. And the the problem I have, I think, is I don't know who they are, never heard of them until today. Like I'm like, who? You know, unfortunately. Um they sound interesting, they have a lot of eternals feeling to me. Um but then at the same time, I also think about James Gunn, and I'm like, man. I think it's shelved mainly because it's not the right time for this team. I had similar feelings about when they announced when Marvel announced that they're gonna do Guardians of the Galaxy. Someone said, Yeah, it's a raccoon in a tree, you know, and a green girl. And I'm just like, what are you talking about? Like these movies were good until now. I really had it, I because I didn't know I had no idea who these people were. And because they were pretty new, right? Anyway, they're not that old of a team, anyways, right? Yeah, and it was just a new concept for the MCU to throw this movie in. And then the movie comes out, and you're like, oh, it is brilliant.

SPEAKER_01 32:33

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_06 32:35

And it opened us up to the rest of the universe. Honestly, it was because of that movie we're able to go where we went with the rest of the stuff. I think that's what this movie is as well for DC. Not so much universal-wise, but I think that once he establishes the Justice League, it would be interesting to dive into an opposite team that they struggle with dealing with, you know. Um, I think he just needs to. I think the only I think it's shell for that reason. I think James wants to do this. I think it's a passion project is clearly he must like these characters a lot, he must know them, and he's real good at taking these obscure characters and making a thing out of them that'll be really well. But we're still in the midst of getting a Justice League team.

SPEAKER_01 33:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 33:21

And I'm not saying you need that first, but it definitely, if you're gonna have guys like these guys who give them a hard time, I want a little better taste of who our Justice League is.

SPEAKER_00 33:30

I I agree. I actually think that that would have been for me, if I was in charge of DC Studios, a logical step is build your justice league. Kind of like how Marvel did. They built their Avengers and then they expand upon all the rest of the universe later. So you had a core team and core characters you were following through, and you could compare and contrast with the other teams. And this this has seven members, the original Justice League roster had seven members. Yeah, they all look like they can mimic the Justice League to a degree. It feels like you're kind of putting I would I would not have picked a team like this, it's not as well known as the Justice League to be something that's my immediate coming soon. I could see this in like DC Studios phase three, if they're doing phases like Marvel did type thing, and they're like, hey, guess what? You already had a taste of Justice League and a couple of the core characters, and this is a working train. Let's add in another team that you can see them intermingle with, and you could really then get a good sense of, oh, there's a stark difference between Justice League and authority, Batman and this other character that's like Batman, Midnighter, you know, things like that. I think that would have been a little bit of a cool and something for the audience to really grasp that and say, we like these characters, and now we can get a full picture of who they are.

SPEAKER_06 34:45

If I were James Gunn, this would be my Civil War of my DC universe. Where let's get a few movies in, and then let's what if we had heroes versus heroes and they're versus each other because one is a little more violent and they're trying to tame them. And there's there's your Civil War movie. Right.

SPEAKER_02 35:03

It's perfect.

SPEAKER_06 35:04

That'd be great. That'd be awesome. And then it'd be cool. There's all these characters out there. So I have no problem with them doing this. And I think that's why it's show. I think it's only news because he just jumped a gun and talked about it.

SPEAKER_00 35:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 35:14

And made a big deal.

SPEAKER_00 35:15

He's seeing he does that a lot. James James Gunn's very active on social media. Right. Odds are like out of ten, it's probably like seven out of ten, he's gonna be commenting on something if you send him a message.

SPEAKER_06 35:26

In fact, yeah, if you send him a message, say, hey, what's next for you? He'll list probably five things that he wants to have done, but some of them are probably 10 years from now. You know, it's so you just don't know what he's and I think he's sticking to his policy. When a script is ready and it's perfect, that goes next. And I just don't think there's a perfect script for this yet. And also he's probably a little strategically thinking, yeah, we probably should establish our main justice league before we do a whole other team. You know, but you mentioned the boys kind of feel to it. I don't think it'll get that kind of crazy, but it does, I think it does have that kind of feel to it. By the way, guys, watching the final season of the boys, it is fantastic. It is fantastic. It's Homelander's the only version of Superman I like, you know, and he's such an evil, nasty guy. He's just it's some of the best superhero stuff I've ever seen is in this show.

SPEAKER_00 36:14

Well, I've such a good show. I've only watched season one of The Boys.

SPEAKER_06 36:18

I it's a wild show.

SPEAKER_00 36:20

It is it is a wild show. Wild. It knows funny. I love Invincible that's on Amazon. Oh, yeah, it's good. Yeah, it's been it's been like a week and a half now since the last episode has been released, and I had just had not had time to sit down and watch it because when I sit down to watch it, I don't want to be working on our podcast editing or on a script or something like that. I want to sit down and focus on it because it is such a good show. I love Invincible.

SPEAKER_06 36:48

I think you and I would have a good time if we sat down and did like a two episodes at a time with the boys and talked about it. Because I think you would like it. It's just getting through, it's wild. There's things that I've even, when I'm watching, I go, whoa. Yeah. Like, what are we watching? But the it's there though, like that feeling of like this, the urgency, the all the stuff you want though, is there. Every second that Homelander's on screen is some of the best television I've ever seen. He is my god, forgive me. Anthony Starr is his name, the actor. He did a show called Banshee, which is also wild, and it's and it's real good. And he plays a guy who kicks a lot of ass in that. But in this, though, he is just, I know we're not talking about that, but this reminded me of it. I just want to throw it out there to you. He is you, he's so scary because you don't know what he's gonna do, and he's the most powerful being on the planet. He can do whatever he wants to do, and the only reason he doesn't go scorched earth is because he's he's mentally disturbed and he's not sure how or what or why, or so like there really is no like if this guy had his mind about him, he'd probably just take over. And well, he is right now, you gotta watch some show. It's like he's in, but he just mercilessly will kill people. You know, you saw in what you did end up seeing, you know, it is he's he's oh my god, guys. Yeah, there's and and then then and this show does great because you nobody's safe, and that's what I like about this show is everybody you like. There's a couple characters you know they're not gonna get rid of right away because they're building to things, but there's a lot of characters that they'll introduce to you and two or three episodes later, they're just they're gone, dead. And you're like, what? Played by big actors, and they're gone, dead. And it's all because like they just want you to be, you know. My favorite scene of his is they're recruiting people for the for the seven, and one this one guy, he's blind, like he's he's basically a Daredevil version. He's doing all these cool fighting tricks, he has superheroing and all that. He walks up to Homelander, Homelander just slaps the sides of his head and his head explodes, and he goes, Yeah, so he can't see me coming. We need better people in here. Like he's just that kind of guy. Oh my god. But the creepier scenes about him is he'll be standing. There's moments where you'll see him in the show, standing and staring at a wall, and someone interrupt him and he'll get like, Oh yeah, sorry, and you forget that he can see through things, so he's like watching people, like in bathrooms, and and he's got a mother complex, so he wants to drink mother's milk, so he uses a shape shifter to turn into his mom so he can lay on their lap and feed off of its breast. And he's I'm telling you, it sounds insane, but when you watch it though, and you watch the show and how the the steaks are there, it's he is it's good, it's intense, it's intense, anyways. We'll get past that, we'll get to that sometime. The comment down, guys, if you want us to do some uh some uh in the future, we'll do it, especially with especially the show ending because we can do a special on it, you know, on it.

SPEAKER_00 39:49

All the time series type thing, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 39:50

Because it's I mean it's an easy watch. I I watch, I'm I'm invested all the time. But with this here, guys, I mean, yeah, it's yeah, Sam. I don't know. This this uh unique group of characters, it's funny as this they all sound like Justice League characters, so it's like to me, it's like you know, it feels like an opposite else world of something that's going on. I like the idea. I hope James Gunn gets to do this. I just I really want to know our Justice League before we get this though. My own personal taste.

SPEAKER_00 40:17

Yeah, so again, guys, let us know. Do you care about the authority? Are you an authority super fan? You were excited for this, and now you're kind of let down because of the news, or are you just someone who's like, who are you again? And we're just waiting to see if this does come about. It definitely sounds like James Gunn is interested in doing a show like or a movie like this. So odds are it's probably gonna be done. The question now is when. So let us know in the comments below what are your thoughts. And Ike, what is your mystery uh news of the week that I did not plan?

SPEAKER_06 40:48

Yeah, so I it's and it's not Marvel DC news, but it's news that we're gonna be doing soon because it's May and it's coming out, and I just wanted to re like kind of throw out to you that I read a lot of early reactions to Mortal Kombat 2. And I gotta tell you, some of the stuff I'm hearing is fantastic.

SPEAKER_00 41:07

The the character trailers are coming out, like trickling out on my social media right now. They are awesome.

SPEAKER_06 41:13

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 41:14

I watched the Kung Lao one today. Yeah, I'm like, wait a minute. Spoiler alert, he died in the first one. And you're like, I'm wondering, how's he coming back? And then they give like a little taste.

SPEAKER_06 41:23

I'm like, Quan Chi, obviously, right? Yeah. So yeah, so guys, Sammy and I are big Mortal Kombat fans. We have famously spent six hours once playing Mortal Kombat, which I'm sure there's a lot of y'all out there have done this, playing the same two characters, just trying to beat each other back and forth.

SPEAKER_00 41:38

And he won every time except like once.

SPEAKER_06 41:41

But man, was it fun? It was such a good time.

SPEAKER_00 41:44

We picked our strongest characters that we that we like and that we know we can do well with. Then we picked the weakest character that we're not good at.

SPEAKER_06 41:51

Yeah, it was the one that had the tag team stuff in it.

SPEAKER_00 41:53

Yeah, so it was Mortal Kombat 9. That awesome one. You had Scorpion and Night Wolf.

SPEAKER_06 41:59

God, it sucks.

SPEAKER_00 42:00

I had Katana and Shiva.

SPEAKER_06 42:03

Oh man, you guys. And oh my gosh. Hours of entertainment. Just those two hours.

SPEAKER_00 42:08

And then when my character dies, I'm like, Shiva, I'm like, crap. I don't know how they use her. I only know one thing. And I always would jump on them.

SPEAKER_06 42:15

Oh, that's I hope this movie does that. I hope there's like a few moments where a character repeats something a few times just for laughs. Because I mean, because we want the campiness. We want the campiness.

SPEAKER_00 42:26

If you play it, we you do that too. You find two or three moves that you're like, no matter what, if I do these, I'm probably gonna win. Yeah, and so I think that'll have been fun. It's kind of like in the first Mortal Kombat. They did taste it in the first one. Well, it was a Lou Kane can be able to get a little bit of a tripped. Be like, yes, because who hasn't done that?

SPEAKER_06 42:43

You've all desperately did that to win a round. You knew you were losing. Oh my gosh. You all are guilty of it. Like everybody is.

SPEAKER_00 42:50

I'm very guilty of the junk kicks. I know I'm losing. I'm like, jump and kick, jump and kick.

SPEAKER_06 42:55

Especially with like Shell Khan or something, because you can't just stand still for that guy. Oh my goodness. You hit him, he just laughs at you and throws you across and you're dead. Yeah. Well, anyways, what I'm what I am hearing is that's it's surprising and it's good. And the news that I've been hearing, I can't remember where I read it or listened to it. I wish I could. And I've heard it several different spots, so I I'm not really blowing up anybody's spot or leaving them out because other people have talked about it. But I guess they go into a 2D kind of not 2D, but like a when they do these fight scenes in this movie, they're saying that it goes almost like how the video game has like that moment of the video where you're watching a storyline play out, and then as it goes into the fight, it centers out to like where it's got the two characters on each side. Oh, I guess they're doing this in this movie as well.

SPEAKER_00 43:42

That could be very creatively.

SPEAKER_06 43:44

Um the majority of these fight scenes when they happen are gonna be just you're there moving like you're playing the game, watching them fight, which means it's gonna be clear, you get to see what they're doing. And to me, that's like that's awesome. I mean, obviously, there's gonna be other angles. You see in the trailers, other angles. And they're going to do stuff. But if you get moments of that, they said it's very reminiscent of what they did with that Doom movie that Carl Urban also was in, where at the end of Doom, he there's it's a famous first-person shooter game. And towards the end of Doom, they give you a 15 and 20 minute segment where it's all in first person of him running through this place shooting monsters. And it's it's just a taste of okay, yeah, look, we we're playing a little you know homage to it, you know. But I guess Mortal Kombat's going to do that with a lot of these. And I'm like, yes, yes, yes, yes. That sounds like they're saying people die, lots of people die, and Shell Khan is evil and hardcore. Man, I hope they go the distance, you know. I hope they are willing to kill, actually kill people in this. Like, take these characters and do something with it. You know, it's I don't want some characters to go, but I'll tell you, get daring, man. You know, gosh like let's kill some that you just feel like, oh my god, I can't believe we just killed that guy. Yeah. Like, let's take Lu Kane out. You know, I don't want him to go, but boy, wouldn't that?

SPEAKER_00 45:03

It'll be a shocker. That's the thing. That's what they want is a shock appeal. And then be like, how how this is gonna play out later.

SPEAKER_06 45:09

This is much like the games, right? You know what's gonna go on. And and I think that that would be interesting if if it was Shell Khan that did most of the killing. I'd like to see multiple of them try to take him out and you just show how brutal he is. Yeah, show why he keeps winning. And so then so you earn when he dies. Because clearly, yeah, you know, we know how who he's gonna end, right, guys? Maybe. I don't know, maybe who knows? All I know is that you know, they say this is definitely the tournament. They're saying is a lot of things I'm hearing. That they that there are deaths, there are big character deaths, there are a lot of character deaths, it's brutal, it's violent, and there's things that we aren't even privy to yet from that's not in the trailers that we have no idea we're gonna see. I'm like, oh my god. Like so I'm excited. I can't wait to see that movie and we talk about it, and it's gonna be a great time. But I just wanted to throw the the 2D thing was the news to me, because that to me, that's like, oh, I am in for something like this. I think I like that first one they did, but it what it was missing was that idea of the the combat felt very rushed, and it wouldn't have been nice to see like the end fight. We needed more of those kind of fights in it in that movie, you know. I don't have a problem with Cole in that. I mean, everybody thinks that's the worst part. I don't I don't got a problem. They introduced new characters and fighting games all the time.

SPEAKER_00 46:23

I kind of like to me it was a little refreshing that I didn't have to know too much about him because you're seeing the movie through his eyes to a degree. So I I hear he's not in this next one.

SPEAKER_06 46:32

But he is. He is he's in the he's in the newest trailer. Oh, and and it shows him fighting Shell Khan. And I'm telling you right now, guys, you're gonna watch him die. I think they killed Cole in the first 15 minutes of the movie. Well I think that's why they go get Johnny Cage.

SPEAKER_04 46:51

Oh boy.

SPEAKER_06 46:53

I think they're like, man, we just or maybe at the first 15 minutes, but I'm telling you, it's early in the movie and he's gone. And I think I think that would be smart. It's not because of the I'm not saying that because of the fans' reaction to him that they didn't like him. I'm saying that because you proving a point that make this like, oh no, this isn't good. This guy is meaning it. Well so even your newest guy you thought was gonna be something, could put like I mean, go for it. I think this movie's gonna focus more on Katana. I think she's gonna be the one who killed Shogan, to be completely honest with you. She's got the biggest history with him out of the game, being a the stolen father type of thing, you know.

SPEAKER_00 47:31

Like Katana's one of my favorite characters. I usually I usually use uh between her and Sandel, I use those two a lot.

SPEAKER_06 47:37

And she looks awesome in a trailer, she looks like she's kicking a lot of ass. So, like, so I I think you you obviously in a trailer you see that there's a fight between them, anyways, already. So I think whatever you see in a trailer is a fight that you see, but the outcome of it is so we see him fighting almost everybody at one point in time. Only one of them can kill him. Yeah, this movie could be wild, y'all. You know what I'm just saying? Do we see Raiden die? I mean, you know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_00 48:02

Like this year, when it comes to our movies, we've had we're anyone who likes sci-fi or video games type stuff, you're eating well this year, to be honest. Oh, between this and Street Fighter, oh wow Street Fighter, uh, Masters of the Universe comes out one month later for now.

SPEAKER_06 48:17

That's right.

SPEAKER_00 48:17

I mean, the Super Mario Galaxy movie just crossed over a billion dollars, and that's still going strong. Wow, really? Did it? Wow, that's wild.

SPEAKER_06 48:27

I'm not surprised. The first one made a lot too.

SPEAKER_00 48:30

It did, and this one obviously brought the fanfare, and I liked it. I originally watched it, it was really good. So, guys, comment down below what your thoughts on the Mortal Kombat trailer and all the news coming out, and it's next week, guys. This is awesome. We gotta talk about going to see it then. Oh would Audi go watch? He will definitely love the first one. So we're gonna go. So you might even get an out-of-theater reaction from us. We'll definitely mention it later on in the podcast. So jump down in the comment section below. Let us know your thoughts on Mortal Kombat 2.

SPEAKER_06 49:00

Awesome.

SPEAKER_00 49:01

All right, well, that concludes our multiverse minute segment of the podcast. Stay tuned for the rumor mill rundown.

SPEAKER_06 49:09

Yeah, all right, guys, we're to our section of the room rumor mill rundown. That is still a tongue twister. We will get that right. Um, we come up with it to our own detriment, so we will get it right. But I'm gonna start us off with the first big rumor. Now remember, guys, everything in this section is just completely speculation. People saying, hey, did you hear it's possible this or that? It might be bull crap, there might be a little bit of truth to it. Spoiler warnings just in case, guys. We don't want to accidentally spoil something for you. So uh, but you know, let's let's see what we got. All right. A new rumor circulating is that both RDJ Iron Man and Doctor Doom will survive Avengers Secret Wars. A wild theory from fellow YouTuber Den of Nerds claims that Tony Stark has always been a Victor Von Doom variant, thus, everything we know is a lie. Sammy, why don't you set us off on how you feel about everything you just heard right there? Okay.

SPEAKER_00 50:09

Well, there have been things circling around online, and honestly, I think I I said this to you earlier. The the best way to describe this, I think it's idle hands make the devil's work, guys. There is so much going out right now on what is in doomsday, what isn't in doomsday, what's Victor's um motive. Is he a variant of Tony? Is Tony a variant of him? All that stuff to say it just like how Kevin Feige has said his stuff in the past, guys. Things are simple. He does not go on these wild, crazy fan theories and expect you as the audience to digest them and take them in and understand all of them. And I say that with respect to the uh YouTuber Den of Nerds. If you're listening to this man, I do listen to your stuff. I just think that you're overthinking things. That's probably my best guess because I don't see the Russo brothers or Kevin Fige or even Robert Downing Jr. himself giving a thumbs up to saying, hey, all that you've watched of Iron Man, it's not real. It's not the real Tony Stark. It's not what you would think of as Tony Stark type thing. It's you know, I there they are different characters in the comics, and I think that the whole reason they're using RDJ as an actor to play Victor Von Doom is simply to do us a spin on Victor Von Doom for a two-movie thing. He is not gonna survive Secret Wars. I will lay you money down. RDJ's Doctor Doom is not gonna be involved in the MCU past Secret Wars. However, that goes down, he's not. Marvel is using this, they've already said, as like a soft reboot of the franchise, meaning that they're trying to figure out a way to bring in X-Men and make a comic universe that's already out there into a cinematic universe. And how else do you do that? By doing somewhat of a soft reboot. I think characters like the Thunderbolts are gonna survive. I think the characters they've propped up for the past couple phases, like Thor, they're gonna survive because Chris Hemservivi has even said they got more plans of me, and you know they're not gonna shoehorn in the Thor movie between Doomsday and Secret Wars. So, guys, this is in the rumor rundown for a reason. Whatever you read online about Victor Von Doom from Secret Wars or Doomsday, I'm just gonna call BS on it right now, and I don't want to give it too much oxygen because there's no reason for it. That's my two cents.

SPEAKER_06 52:41

So, well, to throw the opposite side of the coin in there, because this is where my head goes sometimes. Um I agree. I think the idle hands is definitely a problem. We're all gonna come up with these wild theories. What I will say though is I don't think Feige and them are dumb enough to not realize by casting Robert Downey Jr., you lit a match to that fire. You're asking for this to happen. So even if they say we want to keep it simple, I think they're looking at this as more publicity and they're gonna keep talking about it. But I don't think what they're taking into consideration is if we what if this fire goes from a nice little campfire of we're always gonna be able to be interested in what's going on, to a wildfire of if you don't do a certain thing, now we're gonna be mad. Because I gotta be honest with you, if we were to sit down right now and write a list of why is Robert Downey Jr. playing Doctor Doom, like what would be the what would be the thing? You know, obviously top of that list is it doesn't matter that it's Robert Downey Jr. and they don't want you to think about Iron Man at all, it's just an actor playing the part. Does that work for people? I don't think it does. You know, does it work that he's just a variant of Tony Stark? I don't know. That's tough. It's probably more likely. This this one doesn't work at all for us guys, right? That's the everything we saw was a lie, and he's uh it's the opposite, where Tony Stark's a variant of Dr. Doom, that don't work. You know, just I mean, I remember you and I were talking, I sent something to you the other day where there's like a bulletin of what if it's this, what if it's that, what if it's this, and they kind of settled on, oh, we had a family before, and now you know, or whatever the reasons and and maybe and we don't even know if that's for sure true. That's even a rumor itself.

SPEAKER_02 54:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 54:28

The idea of hiring Robert Downey Jr. to do Doom is clear to me, though, that you are correct about one thing is he's not gonna continue on and play Doom after these two movies. Maybe. I don't think so. Financially, it makes no sense. He's just too expensive.

SPEAKER_01 54:45

Uh yes, yes.

SPEAKER_06 54:47

And to but to get him to play this last big bad guy like this, because of how good he is, I can see it happening. But if you don't want us to set fire to this idea that it's Iron Man is is Doctor Doom, because it's Iron Man, Tony Stark's Iron Man. And you are gonna lose viewers if it doesn't matter who he is, you're gonna lose viewers if it's a family, you're gonna lose viewers if he's a variant. Either way, you kind of screwed yourself in this situation. And on top of it, it makes me worry about the character of Doom. Because it's either that this is just a version of Doom that they're ending this saga with for the soft reboot to go on to do new stuff with a new Doom, or this is all they're ever gonna do with Doom, and anyone that's a purist when it comes down to this Fantastic Four is not gonna like that either. Because Doom's like Magneto, right? He's a character that he's a big bad that can be real big and bad, or he can be a side character, but he's usually always around somehow, lurking in the background or part of what's going on. He's like a Loki, he's like the Magnetos, he's not a Sanos where there's an end, right? He's not an apocalypse where there's an end. You know, those guys don't linger around. I mean, yeah, they've come back in different, you know, they can do all crazy stuff. But ultimately, each story of theirs is a defeat, right? With these, it's not that, you know, but is that what they're doing here? And then my mind also goes to are we just aging out of the MCU? Is it possible that this is the soft reboot? What if what this is is completely true and all that we saw was a lie? Because guess what? We're I'm 40 years old soon. You know, I saw the first Iron Man when you were a little tyke. There's kids being born of 10 years ago that are going back to watch movies that we watched as we grew up, that are just getting, you know, so there's people that are 12 years old, that are fans of the Marvel Cinematic Universe, and it probably they think Iron Man's an old movie. So is it conceivable to think that this could be the truth? That they're gonna just retcon all of that to restart the cinematic universe because they're all new audiences, all young. When I watch some of these guys on YouTube that you and I talk about, and I realize when they start talking about their age, I realize, oh wow, yeah, they got all these big opinions and they they're hardcore about what they think about, and I get so fired up, like, how can you think that hot take of this? But then I realize, oh, they weren't even born when that movie they're talking about. You know, the hot take that they have. You know, it's like, oh, they weren't even born when that movie came out. I remember when they talked about that movie coming out, and I'm like, they can't do that, they've never done that before. So now to me, we're at something that I mean to guys like us are watching this thing happen thinking how important all the rest of it is. Young kids today might not be thinking it's that important to them. It might be, yeah, redo the old stuff, it's fine. They might not see Robert Downey Jr. the same way we see Robert Downey Jr.

SPEAKER_00 57:54

But to your point there, if they do something like this, you will lose those people that have been with you since I I I understand. So I get I get Marvel's if this is any shred of truth, I get the their desire to bring in another generation that's not as connected to them as what we are, and get them connected. But I think Marvel has so many characters that taking two of their arguably biggest characters, I'll tell you what, guys, I am more of a fan of Doctor Doom than I am of Iron Man. And so that worries me. That does worry me for how they're gonna twist them around. That's why I could only say for creative reasons, they're doing Robert Down Jr.'s Victor Von Doom for two movies just to show what a god Emperor Doom would look like. And then after that, we are, because you better get your own Doctor Doom for the new Fantastic Four you've introduced to go on further.

SPEAKER_06 58:50

But isn't that the proof in the pudding that they're gonna do wrong to this character already? That our introduction to Doom is gonna be the ultimate that he can be. So when we see him getting built up again, where's the where's the oh how bad can Thanos be? Where's that at? Because now we're getting him at his baddest.

SPEAKER_00 59:07

I think it does that introducing him like this does a disservice to the future character that they're gonna try to develop because obviously they're gonna develop him. Dr. Doom, he is one of those big swings. And if you miss at all, even in the future, because of what you've done on these two movies, it you will see it. And what if Robert kills it?

SPEAKER_06 59:26

Everyone's saying it sounds like he's doing awesome in this. What if Robert kills this role and it's awesome and it's one of the best villains they ever had? That's saying, like, oh yeah, Keith Ledger's Joker is awesome, but he ended up just being the cousin of the real Joker. How does that fly? See, you see what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_00 59:42

Like, yeah, well, for me, I from this is all the multiverse saga. Yeah, so I am okay mentally knowing that this is just a doom from a different universe. We see in the Spider-Man movies, it didn't pale anything for Tom Holland because when they brought in Toby McGuire and Andrew Garfield, and we know how those series end, that we're now gonna continue with Tom Holland and didn't say, Oh, now I'm gonna compare him to them. We're still not doing that. So I think if they do this right, we don't have to compare Robert Downey Jr. to the future one. It's just a clear-cut understanding of this was one version of him, this is the version we are gonna get, and you can see glimpses of what RDJ put into it, but we're not gonna get the RDJ one, so don't put your bets on it. Right. I think that we'll be I think the fans will be smart enough to understand when the multiverse stuff ends, it is done. We're back to a singular timeline, and we're just gonna go through of all the new characters and in the toy box that we have now and try to build up a universe again.

SPEAKER_06 1:00:46

Um, my two questions to you then, just for your personal taste. Sure. Since because this is all speculatory, so we can talk, it doesn't matter, guys. We have no grounds for anything being true. Yeah. For you, for you personally, does this Doctor Doom in this have to be part of the Fantastic Four's universe?

SPEAKER_04 1:01:06

No.

SPEAKER_06 1:01:07

Would you actually prefer him not be? Yes. Because of him being oh do and done, I guess. Yes. At least that's what we're thinking.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:15

So for me personally, I think for continuity-wise, I would prefer now the post-credit scene of the Fantastic Four First Steps movie kind of shows that the doom you're gonna get is the doom from their universe. But we don't know. It doesn't confirm it.

SPEAKER_06 1:01:30

But we don't know the context of what's going on. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:33

It could be when Sue sees his face, it's like you don't look like Victor, right? You dress like him. That's so that's we don't know. They could do that. For me personally, I think it would be better if this doom is from a whole other universe. Um and this is that way when we do get the Victor Von Doom of the Fantastic Four, they've already established it is fresher, it is a little more continuity-wise with the Fantastic Four, because otherwise you're gonna put a little cloud over Dr. Doom's head whenever he shows up to say, You're not really our victor. The whole time, you're not really our victor. They might be able to write past that, but it's still gonna pop up in our heads. So I would prefer RD RDJ's Doom to perhaps come from a universe that already had an incursion and he's the lone survivor. Maybe he looks similar to what the Fantastic Four First Steps um universe Doom looks like, but he's not the same because you could get actors that can look similar to each other and they're not the same.

SPEAKER_06 1:02:37

And then that leads me to my second question from your gut. Do you think it it would be a missed opportunity, or do you think that they should or need to, or what's your honest opinion about whether him being Robert Downey Jr. andor looking like Tony Stark actually having something to do with the story? Or do you think they can actually get away with it being Robert Downey Jr. and he looks like Tony Stark, and we're just gonna either prosthetics or using a mask 90% of the time. The only reason we did it like this was the publicity, and the character has nothing to do with the with the other.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:13

I think personally it's the first part, and this is my reason for for that.

SPEAKER_06 1:03:17

Is it more important to you that it's that?

SPEAKER_00 1:03:19

It's not important to me. The to to me, the since they announced his casting as this, I feel like logically in my brain, you have to do it this way then. So they could do it the other way and just be like, oh, we just got a great actor back, and he's playing a whole different character, and it's don't ever have to think about that Tony Stark ever again type thing. It could be that. Who knows? I don't, but I think for creative writing purposes and to connect the old cast with the new cast, I think that's a huge piss opportunity if they're gonna do that. I feel like the reason, and they've all talked about this the Russo Brothers, Kevin Feige, they're like, we had a grand idea. We pitched it to RDJ, and he said, heck yeah, let's do it. And I think part of the grand idea wasn't that you're just introducing one of Marvel's biggest bads across any media that they've had him in, but also you're trying to bridge the gap of let's face it, guys, doomsday is a cleanup act from the past couple phases that haven't hit home runs. I know that they might want to tell you differently because no one is gonna admit from a higher level that, oh, we messed up, we need to do some pickup, some cleanup, and that's fine. I'm not gonna fault them for that. You do you, you're doing your job, promoting your brand. Good for you. But in all reality, for us guys that don't have any skin in the game and can call balls and strikes when they happen. This is kind of one of those we're gonna bring back the fans that loved us from Endgame and before, the fans we probably lost along the way between four, five, and six, and bridge that with these newer casts that we've gotten. We've gotten some fans for Elena Balova, for Bucky fans are still there, you know, Thor fans, those people are still there, and the new fans for like Ms. Marvel and all that stuff. We're gonna bring them together and we're gonna bridge them using the fact that RDJ is playing Victor Von Dun. So for the newer fans, they're seeing a whole new character. They're not thinking about Tony Stark because he hasn't been there for the past nine years. For us, we're thinking about Tony Stark because we're literally seeing his face. And when you see the reactions of Tom Holland Spider-Man saying you're Tony Stark, you're seeing then the younger the the young the older fans and the younger fans come together.

SPEAKER_06 1:05:36

There's a lot of podcasters out there that I've heard right recently saying that they think that idea is dumb.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:43

Well, they are dumb. I agree. Honestly, I agree. You gotta think about it this way, guys. If you do think that way, if you do think what I just pitched to you sounds stupid and dumb, they are trying to win everybody to come back, they want to not only bring back the end. Gain levels of hype and excitement and box office, they want to exceed that. They're going all out on this. There is no way that they are doing this without the support of the pre-endgame fans.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:14

There's no way. And so how do you do that? You bring in the X-Men. There's a whole new demographic there. The love the X-Men, like my brother and I. You're going to bring them in with these fan favorite casts. That's why they are going to get Halle Berry. You're going to get them in there. I don't care how often she says you're not going to see her. Guys, you're going to see her because they're going all out for these two films. Even if you don't see her in Doomsday, you bet your bottom dollar, you're going to see her in Secret Wars. Yeah, oh yeah. So they're trying to bring everyone back in. They're doing one last hurrah. So when they do the soft reboot, there you go. You could have you brought back everybody. You got everyone back to the dinner table. Now, how do we proceed?

SPEAKER_06 1:06:56

Yeah, I'm going to mirror, I'm not going to go too far into it. We'll move on to the next thing, but I will say I agree with everything you just said, every bit of it. And the other thing I'm just going to add to it just for just for the poke of it, unfortunately. Sorry, Feige and Disney if I upset you guys, but I I got to tell you, if you don't utilize this idea that it's Robert Downey Jr., his liking of Iron Man and Tony Stark as part of the story as well, then and you you're to me the logic of spending this kind of money on him to bring him into it is that even if you claim, but the marketing campaign is great, even if he ends up being a character, it doesn't matter. No, that's way too much money for something like that. That is your marketing campaign wouldn't cost as much just to have him in the movie. He's too expensive, guys, and you just laid off a bunch of people. And if you're gonna there's better, dare I say, I love your Robert Downey Jr. But there are good actors out there, I do say maybe better, that are cheaper, that could do doom, that could do doom in the future past these movies too, let alone do a doom. I'm not saying RG Day RDJ's Doom isn't awesome, I'm sure it's gonna be. He has rarely ever failed for me as an actor, anyways. So I'm sure he's got I'm sure it's gonna be great, but you're forking a lot of money over for just another character if that's all he is.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:21

I'm sure his performance is gonna be great, and you go watch the movie and think, oh, he was a fantastic Dr. Doom. But I'm gonna tell you what, by the end of Secret Wars, if there is not a one-liner or that one little scene of someone like Thor or Spider-Man looking at him saying, Tony, you have put a sour taste in some people's mouth. Announcing RDJ as Victor.

SPEAKER_06 1:08:43

Yep, that's the corner they got themselves in. Because it's either he never takes that mask off, now you have to do it, or he takes the mask off and there's so much prosthetic and he doesn't look like a Robert Downey Jr., or he looks like him and these guys are gonna acknowledge it. Because the thing is because it's not gonna make sense. If he takes it off and it's Robert Downey Jr., and do we just want our characters to pretend they've never seen him before and he looks like Tony Stark? What? You know what I mean? That's where we're gonna be like guys, somebody say something. Yes, yeah. It's so he either takes the mask off and he looks nothing like Robert Downey Jr. Or he never takes it off at all. And I don't know if I like either of those.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:18

Yeah, no, on honestly speaking, guys, uh yeah. The question is for you on this rumor at this point. We're gonna wrap this part up real quick because, like I said, we're giving this a little bit more. We could get mad about it if we're not careful. Um, what are your thoughts on this rumor that's out there? Do you think um Victor von I'm sorry, do you think that Iron Man is a variant of Victor Von Doom, or do you think it's the opposite? What how do you think they're gonna portray Victor Von Doom? Is he gonna reveal himself to the group? Is he not gonna? And that'd be the biggest waste opportunity because you're guaranteed butts in the seats with RDJ's name and face on there, yet you're not gonna show his face and have the other Avengers react. What do you guys think?

SPEAKER_05 1:09:56

Was it all a lie?

SPEAKER_00 1:09:58

And if it was all a lie, I don't know how I'm gonna feel about Marvel moving forward, to be honest.

SPEAKER_06 1:10:03

Would you move forward with him? I don't know if I could. I don't know. I might uh that might be our podcast goes to I don't know DC. Transformers.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:13

All right. Hello, guys. Let us know your thoughts. All right, so I'll just segue on to that to the second uh rumor mill rundown topic we got here, guys. This is regarding the young Avengers. I don't know if y'all have heard about them, but they have been sprinkled throughout phase four, five, and six. So let's talk about this rumor. They both involve uh Ms. Marvel herself. Uh inside scooper Alex Perez claims that the upcoming Disney Plus show Vision Quest will set up the Young Avengers, not through Wanda and Vizin's son Tommy, who is a young Avenger, by the way, but through possibly through Ms. Marvel herself. And recently, um Andy Circus and Iman Vellani, the actress for Ms. Marvel, during a recent interview possibly revealed that Ms. Marvel is in Doomsday. Now, that's still part of the rumor mill, because that's not official, but I wouldn't be surprised, guys. So do you think the young Avengers are happening, Ike?

SPEAKER_06 1:11:11

Yeah, I think it's eventually gonna happen. It's a very popular thing. I've heard for a long time people wanting it. I do think it's gonna happen. If they are gonna do the young Avengers, you might want to get on top of it because these guys aren't gonna be young for too long.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:22

Haley Steinfeld just had her baby.

SPEAKER_06 1:11:24

Yeah, so she's a Hawkeye. Young version of her. Right. So she is gonna be, you know, a young adult Avengers? Like, I mean, it's I mean, I know we can you can do you can get these people to make themselves look younger real well, especially when you look like some of these people do. But you know, let's keep it believable and fun. And young Avengers doesn't necessarily mean they're young. This could be new, you know, and that that could be I can understand that.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:47

Young as like in their 20s versus the ones we got originally in their 30s looking at.

SPEAKER_06 1:11:51

Or even even even young as in we're just new to the to the to the to the show, right? Or just the kids, yeah. That's what they are. Yeah. Um Tommy visions that Wanda's son doesn't exist, so we don't have to worry about that because he's you know he only exists in the multiverse, you know, because he's not real otherwise.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:08

Well, at the end of Agatha, um, all along, Tommy gets reincarnated. From not being real? Yep, from uh because Oh, that's right.

SPEAKER_06 1:12:19

So that's why I don't like that show. Yeah, I did. Okay, yeah. That's why I didn't like it. Because it's like he's reincarnated, but he's not yeah, I don't know.

unknown 1:12:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:12:25

We'll get there.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:26

Which actually is a little comic actor, by the way, personally. So I was not upset about it.

SPEAKER_06 1:12:31

Yeah, I got no, I I hear you. Yeah. Um, but either way, uh yeah, they got a lot of work to do with it. Um I they're setting it up in Vision Quest, though. It's like, I mean, when's vision gonna be about vision? I guess. You know, it's it was I i I don't know what this project's gonna be. I don't know when it's gonna happen. I'll be honest with you, I'm not gonna give this a lot of attention until I see what we got going after Secret Wars. It might call for this later, right? As for Ms. Marvel being in Doomsday, I mean, I think they're all gonna be in Secret Wars, so that doesn't matter. Um, but uh I think yeah, it's I think anyone's a possibility that's that has ever been in a Marvel movie to be in either one of these two Avengers movies coming up. You know, so and yeah, it doesn't surprise me. Um I'm not clamoring for this though, guys. I really could care less. I think this is gonna be for the newer kids, the newer younger kids coming up. You know, maybe it is part of their soft reboot because everything's gonna be a lie and these guys will be the real deal. Um, but we'll see. I don't know. How do you feel, Sammy? Because that I don't got much to say on that because I'm not I'm not very up to date and savvy on my young Avengers lure and stuff. I gotta start watching some stuff on them and maybe pick up a couple comic books because I'm not a very uh uh understanding of what that is. Now I take it Andy Circus is is the director of this. Is that what that is? Why he's part of this?

SPEAKER_00 1:13:57

I so I don't know because he's not playing claw in it, right? No, well, this isn't this is another movie that they're both in. They were just doing uh interviews. I don't know what the movie is. I don't know if it's an Oh okay.

SPEAKER_06 1:14:09

So he's interviewing with them.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:10

Yeah, he and her are sitting in chairs together talking about another project.

SPEAKER_06 1:14:15

Gotcha. So you might have not have anything to do with this at all.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:17

She made uh like a friendly comment to him about playing Gollum again. Oh, okay. Okay, I apologize. Yeah, he in return said, I can't wait to see your Ms. Marvel in Doomsday. And then she said, You're not supposed to say that. So if she didn't say that, guys, you probably would have been like, Oh, he's just saying it just to say it. But when you say it like that, yeah, it's kind of like okay.

SPEAKER_06 1:14:40

And they stage a lot of this stuff.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:42

They do.

SPEAKER_06 1:14:43

Not all of them, I think, but the majority of their leaks where they make a big deal about it, it's very staged. The Tom Holland really seemed like he messed up a few times in the past, but it got very obvious that they were letting him do it after a while. They were like Yeah, the one the most believable ones was the Mark Ruffalo ones. But I think even then was a he doesn't go out there and say half of everybody dies and not get, you know, dude. And yeah, the I think him and Don Shield played off of each other and just had fun with that. You know, and I and I think it was just like over everyone's heads, you know. But yeah, no, I I'm with you. I I thought for some reason I took this news as Andy Circus had something to do with the project, which I mean he would be claw in it, but he also he could direct it though, because he did direct one of the Venom movies. And he's he's actually not a bad director. I guess he's directing this Gollum thing, whatever this monstrosity of Lord of the Rings is gonna be. I got very low opinions of what's coming for that, to be honest. But that's for another discussion, another time.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:43

By the way, guys, I'm gonna show Ike a couple pictures here and I will pop them up, and I want to make sure I'm giving credit to the right fan artists online who've made these um uh Gen X Brazil um make some incredible AI um computer graphics art of some characters, like is fan casting, or just this is what they could look like. And of course, with today's modern day and technology and all that, you could do some real cool. They sent you one of Cyclops not too long ago that was like, oh this is like the this is a character of what Wiccan would look like in the Young Avengers, but I'm trying to find there's a Miss Marvel one, and more importantly, that I wanted to show Ike there's one of Storm and Gene that looks dead on like what they could look like. And I I I know we're gonna be talking about them in a moment to a degree. And it's like if I find this picture, I hope Cyclops looks like that photo I sent you.

SPEAKER_06 1:16:33

Yeah. Holy moly.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:16:38

Yeah, so it's it'd be interesting to see if this happens. Um, you know, I I I like I said, I gotta get more savvy on who these people are. I still am interested to see what you know, vision's gonna be right now because we are left up in the air. Last time we saw him was the end of WandaVision, and he's all white and he flew away, and he's got a mix of the new version of himself and the old version of himself going on. So, like to me, it's like, man, you got a lot to talk about there. And where has he been? Like, what's he doing? Is he just in some layer somewhere talking to some distant memory of Ultron? I don't know. It's it's it could be a really weird situation, this whole thing. And because Vision is arguably, he's up there, it's power-wise. He's up there, man. He's not someone to mess around with. So I'm curious to see how important that is moving forward. Yeah, Dan. I want to see Paul Bentley back in spotlight a little bit. Yeah, well Paul's a great actor.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:27

From my understanding, Vision Quest is supposed to be this last one where you have to know it to watch the movies type thing. Everything after that, they they and that's because they've already filmed it, they already had this done and all that stuff. They're trying to bring Paul Bentney's vision vision back to uh the cinematic universe, and so how else do you do that?

SPEAKER_06 1:17:44

Do we get Vision Quest before we get Secret Wars?

SPEAKER_00 1:17:47

Yes, we get Vision Quest before we get Doomsday. Oh, that's right. Vision Quest is supposed to come out this fall. I forgot that it was that end of September, beginning of November. So by the time this gets done, it should be wrapped between between Thanksgiving and the first week or two.

SPEAKER_06 1:18:01

My worries are feel better than I thought it was after a couple of these movies, and I'd be like, ew. Or between, you know, I wouldn't like that. But yeah, maybe that hey.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:09

Yeah, yeah, exactly. So uh guys, what do you think on this? I've been spending most of my time trying to pull up my ex account, which I don't have on my iPad. But, anyways, guys, what do you um think about the the Young Avengers rumor? Do you think that's gonna happen? Do you think it's not gonna happen? Do you think it's about time, or do you think, oh, then they're they're waiting too long? Comment below, let us know your thoughts, and we're gonna go on to the last part of our rumor down that kind of goes into this too a little bit.

SPEAKER_06 1:18:36

So, yeah, it's a doomsday cast rumor, guys. As Cinemacon during an interview, Marvel CEO Kevin Fige let it slip that he witnessed at least 30 to 35 characters on set at one time. The issue is to date, only 27 characters are confirmed to appear. Who are the missing three to eight characters? Yeah, I mean, it's the X-Men, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:18:58

Yeah. When I heard this, because this is an actual interview, and he says out loud, there is at one time 30 to 35 characters on set, and he's talking about how cool it is to see all these actors together. I'm like, oh, cool, that's awesome. The problem is, dude, there's only 27 characters you've confirmed so far, and that's including Catherine Newton as stature. So that we just found out at CinemaCon.

SPEAKER_06 1:19:20

So they keep adding on to Cherowatch. Cherowatch was like, is this everybody? No, we then we get Cap, then we get this one, then we get this. So they're adding that it is a lot. There's gonna be obviously to me, this is X-Men.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:33

It's gotta be, right? So we I thought this would be cool for us to end our rumor rundown to think who are your three to eight characters that he's mentioning.

unknown 1:19:44

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:45

I wrote down my list because I had to think really hard. I'm like, realistically, Sam, who could these actually be? Because I could throw out who I want it to be, but versus who I think realistically is in it. I I have my list written down, but who do you think are your yours? So my wants?

SPEAKER_06 1:20:05

Well, I I want this to be Gene Gray, Storm, and uh Rogue. That's who I want this to be.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:12

I agree.

SPEAKER_06 1:20:13

Um I I think they are. If we're gonna go with full eight, that's definitely part of it. Um I think it's gonna be Spider-Man and Peter Quill.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:38

That's what I think it's gonna be.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:42

Guys, I didn't even write those three on my in the wild. Yeah, because uh it's very plausible that it is gonna be those ones, to be honest. But the first three I would think of, if he if he was just talking about 30 characters on set, would be Monica Rambeau, because she is in the X-Men universe and that post-credit scene of that's what bridge the gap and we bring Kelsey Grammar's beast back, so I feel like naturally that whole universe is P. Is this your want or is this what you really think it's gonna be? This is who I really think it's gonna be. Okay, okay. None of these are my want list, they're who I think realistically he's talking about.

SPEAKER_05 1:21:16

Okay, sorry.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:17

So one, Monica Rambo. Yeah, two, Ms. Marvel. And that's not because of what we just talked about. Ms. Marvel has become such a fan favorite, and they already confirmed a young Avenger as Kathleen Newton coming in that I feel like not having Ms. Marvel in, especially how important they've made her so far, would be like a what are you doing type thing. Not in a bad way. I'd be fine if she's not in the movie, but I do think she's actually in the movie. Anyways, they just haven't revealed her yet because they don't know how to throw her in there and in the marketing yet. Um, and number three, I think Deadpool. Ooh, many things about Deadpool. I don't think he's in it because logically for me, I remember rumors circulating in the beginning of filming of this that Ryan Reynolds was in a lot of these rumors. And I thought, okay, that would make sense for me because that was their one of their number one hit movies in the past three phases. So why not bring back in that talent? And he already has talked about he's confirmed writing scenes. So I feel like that's enough to say he's in the movie.

SPEAKER_06 1:22:19

Yeah, yeah. I mean, there's there was an old rumor going on for a while that Deadpool Wolverine and Toby McGuire's Spider-Man is in this movie.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:27

And there's a rumor on set that RDJ and Ryan Reynolds weren't getting along. Or no, P was it those two and Pedro Cascale? These are all rumors, guys. Of course, and they're not gonna talk if they're gonna talk, but it just I find it funny that Ryan Reynolds' name was in the mix of all these rumors and be like, wait, he hasn't even been confirmed for the movie yet. So, like, so I part of me thinks, oh, I wonder if this just talking about it.

SPEAKER_06 1:22:52

And that rumor came out at the height of where they saw they were trying to, for some reason, there's this weird campaign out there trying to make Ryan Reynolds look like he was difficult to work with. Now, there may be a possibility there's some truth to that. We we always hear of, oh, I can't believe that person was like that, you know. But I I don't think Ryan would do all these projects like this if he was.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:14

I agree. And I I agree with your sentiment too, because at that the same time his wife, Blake Lively, was going through a lawsuit, and to a degree she kind of still is, and so there was a campaign to kind of smear them a little. There is a campaign for them and against them online, and I think once you do that stuff, you you either see whether it's true or not, some ugliness inside these tactics of people, what they're saying. And I think that's all it was.

SPEAKER_06 1:23:39

Yeah, because I'm gonna take the word of Hugh Jackman, who seems from everybody, everybody says he's the nicest person to walk through Hollywood, they say. He's uh out of everyone. I mean, there's a lot of other people that are nice, but they say he's he's almost obnoxiously nice. And if you goes on record saying Ryan is nothing but the same, then I mean I I'm I would I give Ryan the benefit of the doubt that and hey guys, by the way, he's a creative guy, he's a smart guy, he's earned his position. So if he does look at you and say, That's I'm gonna do this the way I'm gonna do this, and you think that's a bad attitude, sorry, that's a guy that knows what he wants and knows what he's doing. So even if he does have an edge to him every once in a while, you know, he's allowed this, guys, because he's you know, I'm not saying he has to be a jerk, but no, but he still itself his. Yeah, but if he, you know, yeah, he he has the right to tell you, nope, I'm doing it my way because his way's been working. So that doesn't necessarily mean he's that way all the time. It just means, hey, one bad experience. They tear apart Tom Cruise for yelling at those guys during COVID. But when you look at the context of it, you know, the money that was put into that, you know, with them having to wear the masks and all that stuff, whether you agree with the mask thing or not, that was money being put in and things that they were going to do that was on the line because of that. So Tom let them have it after several times, which they never talk about before, that he had warned these guys several times, and this was like the fifth time. And the guy gives a snarky remark back to him. So Tom's just like, listen here, mother effer, this is what you're doing because there's a lot of money involved in this. I give Tom a lot of credit. I don't know what bosses wouldn't yell at you if they got to talk to you that many times.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:15

See, that's the thing. It also depends on in what capacity is Ryan Reynolds being into this project.

SPEAKER_06 1:25:21

If you're being ordinary with him and you're being hard to work with, he's gonna let you know where the bear craps in the woods.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:26

Well, what I was gonna get at is if he's hired just for his acting talent, I don't think he has the right to do that stuff because you're there for one job, telling someone else what to do. But if he's hired as a producer of something, or this specific scene is a co-directing type thing, or this a co-writer of this scene, he does have that clout to say, hey, I'm this is how I've written it, this is how I want it done and executed for the character. So this is how I'm gonna do it. You work around it. That makes sense to me. See, that's the thing, guys. When you hire talent out there, it depends on what capacity are they hired to. If they're just acting, they they don't have the right to butt in on your writing creativity, on your directing style, on your producing editing. You you don't have that right. I'm sorry, guys. You like it. If they give you those privileges, that's one thing, but don't expect them and demand them. But if you're hired on to do something with the writing, as well as the acting, because let's face it, you're portraying the character. There are many actors, like Ben Affleck is the first one that comes to mind. He will direct the same movie he's starring in. So if his opposite right there is doing something he doesn't want him to do acting-wise, he has the right, not as the actor, but as a director, to look at him and say, Need to come back and do that line again, because that's not how I want it done. He has that um that leverage. So that's how I feel about that.

SPEAKER_06 1:26:51

I agree, I agree. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:52

That's why when we talked about the Incredible Hulk and Edward Norton didn't have those credits and didn't have those rights, and he was demanding things, rumor has it. That's where people like me are like, sit down, buddy, and do what your job is supposed to do. Yeah. But for Ryan Reynolds' case, we know how heavily involved in Deadpool he is. He was almost doing most of the Deadpool stuff that you arguably could could say he could have done the directing of Deadpool without Sean Levy. But because he basically was right hand in hand with him doing a lot of this stuff. So I think that if he is in this project, he's in it more than just an actor because he's also writing his scenes and wants Deadpool filmed and looked a certain way. At the end of the day, though, guys, Kevin Feige and the Rooster brothers are gonna have their say. So don't think that he's gonna come in and take over Duke's Day, he's taking over his parts of the you're talking a lot of egos on stuff.

SPEAKER_06 1:27:46

I'm sure in the f in the future we'll get that hundred hour thing of behind the scenes. I'm sure there were days where people snapped at each other, you know. Even your most favorite characters out there, guys, or the actors that were working together, had their bad. Day with each other, and sometimes it works for the best, you know. And so, yeah, but with this said, though, I mean, who are your likes, the ones you want, real quick before we move on?

SPEAKER_00 1:28:10

So, so my my three of the eight characters, I told you my top three that I think are definitely in the movie are Monica Rambo, Ms. Marvel, and Deadpool. The rest of the characters that I've written down that I think he's referring to that possibly most likely are going to be in this movie are Gene Gray, Storm, Captain Marvel. They're all female, by the way, guys. She-Hulk and Rogue. And the reason, one of the reasons why I did pick females in particular is because the cast they've announced so far is so male-heavy. They've missed a lot of their established female characters. And I think that they did that for a reason because no offense to these male characters, but some of these characters I just named off, like Gene Gray and Storm, are ones that people are highly anticipating. So of course they're gonna save that as their special little nugget. Yeah. That's my thought. There could be other characters like Wolverine, Colossus, Iceman. You know, we have no idea what else they're gonna pick.

SPEAKER_05 1:29:01

Iceman would be great, yeah. If you had to pick three out of that, though, who's your three?

SPEAKER_00 1:29:06

If I only had to pick three, oh there's an episode, guys, where we talked about who we thought the three people are gonna be. If we had to pick or we wanted to pick all these people, and the three that I want are in this mix. Rogue. Oh my gosh, this is gonna be so hard.

SPEAKER_04 1:29:25

See, to me it's easy.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:27

I know, I know, but part of me is like if I had to pick three of this list, uh Rogue Yeah, I'm gonna put the one more stipulation out for fun.

SPEAKER_04 1:29:38

This is the only time they could ever show up. Oh god. Well, if that's the case, then I'm not gonna say Gene, Grey, and Storm because I want them to come back in Secret Wars too. But then that means they're not coming at all.

SPEAKER_06 1:29:55

Like you can get any of these guys this one time. But they won't but they won't come. For no other projects. Yep.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:04

Well, in that case, actually, I will say Gene Grey, Storm, and Rogue.

SPEAKER_06 1:30:07

Yeah, before the X-Men.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:08

Yeah, before the X-Men closing. Especially if they are if the rumors are true that they are the first film in phase seven is gonna be the X-Men. It makes sense that you're gonna kind of semi-establish them from Secret Wars on the World.

SPEAKER_06 1:30:20

But who are you gonna say otherwise? Because I just do that in there to make it. I just wanted to make them say that because I gotta tell you, they gotta be in this movie. Anyways, they do. Or at least in the next movie.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:29

But you're asking what three of these would I want?

SPEAKER_06 1:30:32

Yeah, what three though, if you if it would be held to the fire that you would definitely want for sure. Your first was Rogue.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:39

Rogue, She-Hawk, and Jean Gray.

unknown 1:30:42

She-hawk.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:44

I am a fan of the Tatiana Muslani Shee-Hawk.

SPEAKER_06 1:30:48

I like I like her She-Hawk too, but I can I can wait.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:51

I think she's done a disservice. I want to see her prove herself a little bit more.

SPEAKER_06 1:30:55

Yeah, whatever.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:55

And it's not from Tatiana, it's from the writers. And if you're gonna get a writer to revitalize a character, the Rooser brothers are your best. So I'm hoping that's it.

SPEAKER_06 1:31:04

Until she climbs out of the screen and like or does this stupid.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:09

That's the thing. They can't they can't do that stuff. What may work in the comic, guys, again, does not translate well to the screen. You can't do that. The talking to us, that's one thing. She did it before Deadpool, and Deadpool just made it more famous.

SPEAKER_06 1:31:21

So I got one more thing to add to this casting thing. Over or under, okay? Over or under 50% that that Black Widow shows up in Secret Wars. Natasha Romanov herself.

SPEAKER_04 1:31:38

Scarlett Johansson? Yep. Over or under 50%.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:43

I'd say over.

SPEAKER_06 1:31:44

Over? Yeah, me too.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:46

They patch things up after her little lawsuit with the the Black Widow thing. She's still gonna do a project, I guess, with them.

SPEAKER_06 1:31:51

Would that be something you'd be okay with? For just that, probably just for that movie.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:55

Just for that movie, depending how it's done, yes.

SPEAKER_06 1:31:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:31:58

You know what it would be really cool? Robert Downey Jr. Iron Man fighting Robert Downey Jr. Doom.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:03

That would be cool.

SPEAKER_06 1:32:04

I would be for that, guys.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:06

Because Doom's a variant.

SPEAKER_06 1:32:07

You know there's a character that we're we're forgetting a lot about is Cable.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:12

Oh.

SPEAKER_06 1:32:12

Boy, wouldn't it be neat to see like Gene Gray and Cyclops with their song? It'd be all of a sudden, like, you know, he just comes around the corner and there he is, and they're just like, and he tells them who he is. Like, oh, I'm your kid, by the way. And they're like, what? That'd be a fun little Easter egg. I don't know. I'm just thinking, guys, they could do so many things. I'm just throwing like these are complete fan service stuff. Yeah, but yeah. It's a rumor mill, by the way. So yeah. That's what this is for. So it's up to you guys who do you think is your top three of who you think is gonna be in the movie for sure. And the top three who you want. Three to eight, obviously, eight, because there is what he said, you know, there's you add it up as definitely eight, but I think we're gonna get everything but the kitchen sink in both these movies to be, especially the second part. And you know, Secret Wars is gonna be what? Because it's gonna be it's just gonna be one giant, insane, I can't believe this is happening kind of movie.

SPEAKER_00 1:33:01

I honestly think that's why these two movies were delayed the way they were. I agree to December.

SPEAKER_06 1:33:06

Yep. I think it was scheduling. It was a lot of like, okay, we need this actor here and this actor there.

SPEAKER_00 1:33:10

You probably got someone like Halle Berry saying, Yes, I'll do it, but I'm only available after I get done with this stuff.

SPEAKER_06 1:33:15

She probably did the whole movie and never met any of these people, and it's just still in the movie. They can do it. They've done it.

SPEAKER_00 1:33:20

They have done it.

SPEAKER_06 1:33:21

It's weird. They do it so well.

SPEAKER_00 1:33:23

Ask Elizabeth Olsen. She filmed a whole Illuminati scene, not meeting a single one of those actors on stage. Isn't that wild? Like, and you watch it and you're like, huh? Yeah, that's wild. John Krasinski supposedly filmed some of his roles as Reed Richards from home with a screen behind him.

SPEAKER_06 1:33:42

See, if that's the case, I'm like, why can't we just do anything you want to do, then, guys? Like, that's the case.

SPEAKER_00 1:33:47

There's no reason for any actor to not be able to do this. She just she could have a green screen behind Storm there in her trailer and just stand on a stool.

SPEAKER_06 1:33:55

And I'm telling you, is there's no there is no coincidence that Halle Berry did that movie on Netflix with Mark Wahlberg and her hair looks like it's Storm's hair, and it's right around that time is when they're filming Doomsday. Get the hell. Okay, I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:10

I'm just saying, and she teases it. Come on, guys. She posts it on Instagram the same time they're starting to film to be like, you know what the internet's gonna do, Miss Barry. Come on.

SPEAKER_06 1:34:22

Yeah, she's anyways. So, yeah, let us know, guys. Let us know what you think. Share, subscribe, all that fun stuff. And yeah, we can't wait to hear what you guys uh come up with because this is a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:30

Yeah, so now we're gonna go to our branch point breakdown, guys.

SPEAKER_06 1:34:40

All right, guys, welcome to our branch point breakdown. Today we're on Daredevil Born Again, season two, episode seven, the episode before the finale. You know, not a bad one, you know, not a great one, not a bad one. I got a really cool theory to throw out there at the end of it that I thought of when I was watching this. Um, and I kind of might have to backtrack on some of the flashback stuff, other than the foggy thing. Well, too much foggy, but like I do actually like the flashbacks uh for some reason because I have an idea that might happen here. But I'm gonna go ahead and give you guys kind of a breakdown of uh what happened in this episode, like a little review, or not a review, but like a little synops of it, and then we're just gonna go from there and talk about this whole thing, all right? So, Daredevil Born Again, season two, episode seven. Karen is taken in and fast tracked to trial. Matt Murdoch returns to the public eye as one of her lawyers. Dr. Glenn's behavior is mimicking her past abuser, Muse. Mr. Charles, I can't say it like that. Mr. Charles reveals that Luke Cage has been taken and that Mayor Fisk is in for it. Matt convinces Bullseye to save the New York governor from an assassination. Buck kills Daniel while BB is on the run.

SPEAKER_00 1:36:06

A lot of stuff happened in this. And honestly, I think it's because they are they're making up for the last two episodes being a little slow to that regard. I think they're knowing that the end is near. And so, yeah, those last two episodes were they were fun to your casual viewers, but I think this kind of coincides a little bit with um, because I was thinking about this earlier uh today, that there was been some news that came out that um Daredevil Born Again season two has a 50% drop in their viewership, and I kept thinking, why is that? And then I remember uh that maybe harder core fans like myself from the Netflix era that are watching this no matter what type thing, versus people like my brother Ike, who haven't watched it like that and they're watching it now for the first time. When you do those flashback episodes, the last two that you've had, now I'm kind of seeing in real life, okay, there is some validity to what Ike is saying in regards to his attention span for the show and if he's gonna stay tuned for it or not, because now we're seeing it in the numbers, guys. So I just had to throw out that little bit of news that came out this week. But I think this episode, if people start listening to us talk about episodes like this, that viewership is gonna go up because a lot happened.

SPEAKER_06 1:37:23

Yeah, yeah, I agree.

SPEAKER_00 1:37:24

A lot of good stuff that was needed to happen.

SPEAKER_06 1:37:26

Yeah, it felt very stagnant, and this didn't. This felt like we are moving forward. I just wish it was two episodes ago and there's a lot to move forward on. Um, and that's I think that's where you lost some of these people as they were like, oh no, man, what this is a show that's they don't know what to do, that's what's going on here. And it kind of felt that way.

SPEAKER_00 1:37:43

But I think I think we were right about the the episode where um Vanessa it kind of ends with thinking Vanessa is dead type thing. They put a lot in that episode, so it's kind of like um you thought it was like a mid-season finale or season finale type thing. That's how much they put in that episode. They went so high that you kind of had to dip down a little bit because you just can't keep riding that high like that. And now it's starting to dip right back up. I feel like that's kind of like a pattern you saw in this, but all depends on how daring you want to get, right?

SPEAKER_06 1:38:17

Like you're right, you got real high at peak there, but if you have the ambition, you could have kept going with that momentum. With me, you're talking how many episodes ago was that? Two? Yeah. Yeah, you're talking five episodes to a season finale after that happens. You can really peak it and have a lot go on, you know. And you can still make quieter ones without going backwards. That was I you know, it's not so much that you slowed down for a second, it's that you went backwards is what my pro is is where I think the issue was. Yeah. Because you're right, you do kind of slow down to bring it back to another peak. Cool. The shows do that all the time, even some of my favorites. But if when you start going backtracking, that's when it's kind of like, did you I wonder if on paper from her almost dying in that episode to now was like, okay, that's only like worth two episodes. We need we need to fill in a lot of stuff. I wonder if their storyline only had that much, and that's what we're seeing. Because this was a good episode, and this is one to talk about, and this is one to um, it's not my favorite. It's it's still like a heavy filler, a lot of exposition-y. Um, makes me wonder what they're gonna do for a finale because this doesn't this doesn't feel like a lead up to a finale. This feels like the lead up to the lead up of a finale. Like I want my lead up to a finale to feel like I can't wait to see what's gonna happen next, and this is crazy. And this almost gets there, but it not quite. It's still really good though, and and this is the right direction. So all right.

SPEAKER_00 1:39:47

Well, let's let's dive into this guys and talk about it because the first thing Ike mentioned here is Karen is taken in. We saw that at the end of the episode before this, but now we're seeing what's happened after that. She is being fast tracked through their legal system that they've established in New York City to get her right to the trial because it sounds like they're trying to get right to some sort of an execution type thing or whatever, whatever Mayor Fist's agenda is for these people. He wanted her to definitely be because she's a she is a big character for the Daredevil universe. And to to catch her and link her with vigilanteism in any way, and establish what these new laws they've done, their justice systems they've made. Um I appreciated that he's like, let's just keep get this ball rolling as fast as we can. And we saw a great moment of him visiting her and he grabs her neck. And I thought, oh no, is this the time we're gonna see her snap it and be like, nah-uh, there's more to come with Karen Page and so and he kind of knew it. He he it's almost like he had to withhold himself from doing it because he wanted other people to see his system is gonna work the way he wants it to work, use her as this example type.

SPEAKER_06 1:41:01

Yeah, I was just gonna say that she he's gonna use her as a point.

SPEAKER_04 1:41:05

Yes.

SPEAKER_06 1:41:05

Yeah, and and he's unhinged. He no, I'm not gonna say un I don't want to use the words unhinged because he's not unhinged. But he's not tempered now because he just went through a big death that's big important to him. So now he's just he's all in, is the word I want to use. Yes. Because if he was unhinged, this story would be going a different direction.

SPEAKER_00 1:41:25

This actually reminds me of what he was like in the first season of the Daredevil show on Netflix, where he was he if he had to get his hands dirty, he would get his hands dirty. But he's also now using his brain more and calculating how they're gonna be.

SPEAKER_06 1:41:38

He sees the importance of what this looks like if she gets right now. He sees the death of his wife is is fresh on everybody's mind, not just his. Yeah. And the more he gets done now, could because he also sees his own end coming with through the Mr. Charles and all that stuff, too. He sees that he sees that he's got on different fronts things coming, and he's gonna get this part of it done. Because deep down, he wants to get at Matt Murdoch and Daredevil. He wants this to be a heart, he wants this to be that, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 1:42:07

Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. So I thought that was really cool. I thought that was a really cool idea because um Matt, of course, is not gonna let Karen just go through this process and not be saved, and he is the only one that could make the entrance that he made and win enough sway of the people that are for Fisk to say, Oh, we're gonna listen to him now, because Fisk has propped him up as this hero that we need to find.

SPEAKER_05 1:42:34

Yeah, here he is.

SPEAKER_00 1:42:35

And now he comes in to defend the person the Fisk wants to put away for good type thing or worse. And so it's an interesting crossroads there, because now the jury really is like the jury's only the three uh judges, by the way, but you know, the public uh view is gonna be like, well, what do we do then? Because Mayor Fist likes him, but now he's defending someone that we feel like we should listen to him then and be like, oh, now you've gotten yeah. Anyway, which this is gonna lead to my prediction at the end, but yeah. All right, so um the next thing that we have on here is uh Dr. Glenn's behavior is mimicking her past abuser muse. Now, I gotta tell you, I was not a fan of her in the first season of Born Again. Yeah, me neither. I didn't think she was like she didn't sour the show for me, don't get me wrong, but she was definitely one of those slow-build characters where why are you here type thing. Then all of a sudden you see in this season, especially that you needed her what happened during the first season. She is becoming for me a dark horse for this uh show. I am liking her a lot more. And now with the recent set photos that have been released, I did a quick video reaction to earlier today, guys. The reel is out there. She is playing Lady Muse in season three, the whole getup. And I was geeking out thinking, wow, this is a character that they're not just gonna say is a one and done, that she's gonna prove something, she's gonna become something bigger, and that is cool to see them build up to two in this show, to be honest.

SPEAKER_06 1:44:14

Yeah, it's taken me a long time to like this character. Um, and this was the first episode where I'm like, you know, I would like to see this go right where I think it's gonna go. And then with your thing you put out the other day, it's it obviously it's gonna go there. So yeah, I'm I'm excited to see what that can be, to be honest with you. Um I I just I hope it's worth it though, because it is such a slow build. Uh I I struggle with this actor. I can't remember her name. Who plays her by chance? Just to I want to be I want to be nice to her. I don't want to say anything mean, but I struggle with her her acting. I have this problem, folks, with that. I've watched a lot of movies, you know, and I'm not saying I'm correct when I say someone's good or bad, um, because it all is subjective. Sam I mean I have a couple people he likes he likes some people. Margarita. Margarita. Uh L'Liva, L'Viva, yeah. Sorry, sorry, ma'am. Um, you know, hey, yeah, living La Viva. So she's doing a great job, okay? But I gotta tell you, I feel like she's just not genuine, and that's my problem with her for me. There's a lot of actress that do this. I feel the same way about uh about like people like Julia Roberts. Oh my god, I'm gonna get kicked off the internet. Uh people like Julia Roberts, Sammy and I have a very big, a very big uh difference between Angelina Jolie. I can't stand her sometimes. And Sammy loves her, and I and I get it. I'm not because and I'm not saying she's bad. Hell, she's better. I'm like I said, I don't want to be that dark me. Yeah. I'm sure she's an awesome person, you know, but I just when I watch her movies, I'm just like, yeah, I don't believe you. You know, I just don't. I struggle with her a lot. Um, but and this person gives me those same vibes for some reason. When I watch her, I'm like, man, I just wish it was I don't know, I feel I feel it was a little miscast for my taste, but I do want to see what this character is gonna be because I'm not very familiar with this character, to be honest with you. I so I'm curious, is for me, it's newer territory than it is for you, because I'm only familiar with what she's like talking about when it comes down to the past stuff, and I'm like, and only through what I'm seeing in the show, not from knowing a lot of it. You know what I mean? So to know what this is gonna be and what it can be, I got more surprises than it is gonna be for you because I don't know as much coming. So maybe I'll feel better when season three comes out, and it's this character really starts to get fleshed out, especially in this other character's form, then yeah, I might be changing my tune. But as of right now, she could leave next episode and I I could be like, okay, whatever, because it it's it's just I'm just not invested yet, you know. And partially it is because I feel a little miscasting of it. But hey, like I said, bring it on. I want to see what this is gonna be.

SPEAKER_00 1:47:08

So I'll be very honest, I know more about the male version of Muse than I know about Lady Muse. Okay, I actually didn't know Lady Muse was much of a thing until recently. Okay. I found out this is where they're going with it.

SPEAKER_05 1:47:19

So it'll be a little new for you too, as you go out.

SPEAKER_00 1:47:21

And I don't, I'm not gonna personally, purposefully go and look up the Lady Muse stuff because I want to see how they're doing her into this. I love the idea of a psychologist, a top-knot psychologist they played her up for in this in the show going through this psychological trauma and her now becoming the very thing that she feared. I just like that part of a storytelling idea and a perspective of seeing how that evolution happened. And I think that we're gonna get that for her. Is that's what it looks like from all accounts and measures, not only in this season, but the set photos leaked to the next season. I am more curious to just to watch it happen and see how they're gonna do it. Yeah, and then I'll be more of a judge on if I like it or not, and then I'll compare and contrast with the comics and be like, you know what, maybe the show did it better, or maybe the comics did it better. Yeah, I'll find that out later. But I I purposely am not gonna look at the comics version of Lady Muse because I want to see what they're trying to tell the story for her in this show. And I gotta tell you, my interest in it has gone up dramatically in this season for her. Like I sense in the first two episodes of season two that okay, uh they kept the character around. Why they keep her around, and now we're starting to see why, and be like, okay, I see that happening, but I almost wasn't believing it too much, like this is still gonna amount to something until this episode in particular. Then I thought, wow, because you see when she's talking to Karen, then the background, you see um the reflection of Muse, and he's not there, but it just is it's kind of that psychological thing of being like, he's there now. He might not physically be there anymore, but whatever he did to her and her trying to cope with it is turning her brain into what his thought process is, and now you're gonna see what she will be like and probably be a little more menacing than him because of what she's been through, kind of thing.

SPEAKER_06 1:49:22

It was kind of like the Harley Quinn Joker too.

SPEAKER_00 1:49:24

I was just thinking about that too, yeah. Because Harley Quinn could come off a little too comedic compared to the Joker, but it it follows a similar pattern, honestly. Actually, it does to a T. She's a psychiatrist, but she, Harley Quinn was interested in Joker's mind and got attracted to it. Right. Whereas Heather Heather Glenn was a victim of it, and her way of coping with what happened to her is somehow turning her brain into becoming and doing the same things to feel that power again that she lost. That's very interesting. It is. Yeah. Anyways, that's just my take on that.

unknown 1:49:59

Um

SPEAKER_05 1:50:00

We'll see what they do with her later.

SPEAKER_00 1:50:01

I am curious. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Mr. Charles reveals that Luke Cage has been taken and that Mayor Fisk is, quote, in for it. Mr. Charles, maybe. Mr. Charles. Um what? Uh yeah. It's nice that they reference Luke Cage because anyone knows that that's Luce Cage's daughter or Jessica Jones. Yeah. Obviously. There's no hiding that. From the look to just anyone who knows of them from the comics. I'm like, perfect. That actually made me more excited when I saw that. I was a little less excited when they dampened Jessica Jones' powers, but we'll find out how that's going to be fleshed out later on, honestly. Um, I don't know what he means by Mayor Fisk is in for, because wouldn't you think by now we would have known because he's been saying this for a little while, too. Like you're getting one more time. One of the things that I would be, I'm not gonna say it in such a negative way, so I'm sorry, Marvel. I would be a little let down and disappointed if they're waiting for that big thing for the last episode. Yeah, we're not seeing some sort of buildup, or better yet, we're not only not seeing it, but we're not seeing what Mayor Fist's counter reaction is gonna be to it and see, is there gonna be a trick up his sleeve? Because it sounds like he's gonna be blindsided by whatever this thing is, and whatever is this thing, we don't know is Julia Louie Drivers coming in the last season and being like, Look, I'm gonna be slap you, Mayor Fisk. Like, what what's gonna happen? Are the Thunderbolts gonna show up?

SPEAKER_06 1:51:29

Yeah, unless they do like what I predicted the last time we talked about this was we don't get a resolution and we end this season on a climactic hang uh uh cliffhanger. Where it's like maybe in the next episode, Mr. Charles reveals exactly what that is, and to Matt Murdoch and to Kingpin, that's oh, we need to unite, and it ends with them uniting, and we don't get a conclusion yet. Come next season, we get that full conclusion.

SPEAKER_00 1:51:56

So the they'll neat uh photos of Vincent D'Anafrio on set of season three.

SPEAKER_06 1:52:01

Yeah, we don't know what that means. Those could be flashbacks for all we know.

SPEAKER_00 1:52:04

They could be flashbacks, he looks like a homeless person. It could be him being in disguise.

SPEAKER_06 1:52:08

It could be him underground with who hasn't seen the kingpin now. Yeah, it could be him and Daredevil underground fighting whoever they have to fight. It could be anything.

SPEAKER_00 1:52:16

And I would be down for a story like that to keep Vincent D'Anofrio in and keep the story intriguing and interesting.

SPEAKER_06 1:52:21

I would mean that'd be the most ambitious, daring thing to do.

SPEAKER_00 1:52:24

Yes, I agree. We'll have to find out, guys, for that, because that I'd be cool for it. I'm down for it.

SPEAKER_06 1:52:29

And maybe this, maybe this you know, muse woman will be a real big problem for them.

SPEAKER_00 1:52:36

Mm-hmm. Because she knows too much on both of them.

SPEAKER_06 1:52:38

Yeah. See, guys, it's right itself if you do it right.

SPEAKER_00 1:52:42

That would be cool.

SPEAKER_06 1:52:43

And this season with them shaking hands. Yeah. Right. That'd be cool. That'd be awesome. Okay, cool. We're in for that. That'd be a great idea.

SPEAKER_00 1:52:54

Hey, it's not so bad, right, guys. So the this next part, Matt convinces Bullseye to save the New York governor from an assassination. Yeah. And I have conflicting feelings about it because I've only known Bullseye as a bad guy. And it sounds like he's turning into a Punisher had a baby with Daredevil type thing. Yeah. Where it's like, is he be are they purposely trying to make him into an anti-hero, or is he is this just a one and done favor type thing for saving his life? I don't know.

SPEAKER_06 1:53:31

This is that continuing argument of this morality thing that's going on in this that needs to come to an end. And I don't mean an end like like it's not part of the theme of everything, but an end of like we get it that this is a problem. My personal feelings, this guy needs to die. His character needs an end. It needs to be tragic in the sense of look, he's starting to be a good guy and he dies. You know what I mean? Let's not take away this idea that he's a villain of Daredevil's. Let's keep that there. See the little shimmery light at the end of it, and then it's waste, it's gone. And what better way to set it up but to have this new villain come in in this next episode to be the one that kills him, which kind of makes Matt and Kingpin shake hands. You know, I I'm gonna keep going back to that, guys. I'm just saying it that makes sense to me. You know, especially let him have this have this moment where he does something right for somebody, and this is the last thing he does. And let's see ya because this argument of this morality thing's gotta change. And he and Matt needs to be challenged harder about it. And that would challenge him real hard, and that would make him turn to someone like King Ben and be like, everything I do, I just keep getting it thrown in my face. But we get now we gotta stop this, and no matter what we are to each other, this is a bigger problem. You know what I mean? And so to me, that supports this if they're gonna do it. If not, then making him this anti-hero bad guy turn good guy, yeah. I'm that's boring for me. You know, I don't want to see that with this character. I like this character being either a bad guy or someone that's not long for this world. You know?

SPEAKER_02 1:55:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:55:13

That's how I feel about that. Great scene though.

SPEAKER_02 1:55:16

Yeah, it is the actor's good job.

SPEAKER_00 1:55:18

There's nothing, you know, this this is all worth watching. I think what I liked about most of the scene is that Governor Hokel there is uh he like he's about to like c slit her throat, yeah, decapitate, or something is happening there. Um, and the uh Bullseye shows up and stops him, he kills him, let's be honest. That's what Bullseye does. Yeah, and that when the governor turns around, she immediately is like, oh god, like uh yeah, you saved me, but at the same time, did you save me? Because I could easily die right now again.

SPEAKER_05 1:55:53

Yeah, it's like so she definitely didn't feel safe yet.

SPEAKER_00 1:55:55

No, yeah, no. Oh, if I was her, I'd go home, lock, lock down the cellar with whatever she's gonna sign on the uh taking away that charter thing, and oh my, I'd be freaking out if I was her. Yeah, I'd be like, nothing is safe anymore. Like, I need to retire.

SPEAKER_05 1:56:12

Yeah, it's this politics thing is gonna kill me.

SPEAKER_00 1:56:16

And I'll need some Kathy Holkels in the time.

SPEAKER_06 1:56:18

Move to Miami. Safer in Miami.

SPEAKER_00 1:56:21

The actress of the past, she does remin look reminiscent to a governor Hokel. So, with all due respect to you, Miss Hokel.

SPEAKER_06 1:56:27

Yeah, go be the governor of Florida, it's safer. Yeah, there's nothing happening in Florida, yeah. Chicago, Florida, there's a few others. Salt Lake City. We'll see Salt Lake City getting destroyed by everybody. No one goes there.

SPEAKER_00 1:56:40

Yeah, like, yeah. Anyways, guys. Um next, the last thing on here is which was really cool seeing this built up, and we even see it on a screen right now starting to happen. Uh, Buck kills Daniel while BB is on the run. Now, if you're anything like me, guys, it took me a couple episodes to realize who was Buck, who was Daniel, and all that stuff because I wasn't paying too close attention to their side names. But Buck is the new Wesley. Daniel is a communications director that's kind of been a super fan of Mayor Fist since the first season. And then BB is um Ulrich's granddaughter that is um, or no, I'm sorry, not granddaughter, niece, that is becoming a reporter and doing some um promotion and also some negative um background propaganda, yes, yes, on the Fisk administration. So I actually thought this was a nice conclusion to that whole dynamic going on there. I don't know what more is gonna happen in the next episode, to be honest.

SPEAKER_06 1:57:44

Yeah, this was the most natural conclusion because we said this back when when he kind of gave her that whole, hey, look, be careful what you're doing. Yeah. You and I both said this dude's eventually got to pick a side. And he does. We knew that, and he's and it's gonna kill him, and it did. Yeah, you know, I if I was the writer of this show, I'd have had Buck, I would have had Daniel get the best of Buck and X and kill Buck. I would have done that.

SPEAKER_00 1:58:07

You would have made it where Buck wasn't the new Wesley type thing, or at least not as I would have had that.

SPEAKER_06 1:58:12

That's what you're thinking this whole time. And then when he goes to do that, Daniel steps up and you're like, Oh my god, I can't believe we just did that. I would have done that.

SPEAKER_00 1:58:19

I think that I think that would have been real ambitious and fun. You know what would have been interesting on that uh for a twist if they did it the way you did. Even if he's just in self-defense, he ends up getting the better of them. It's reminiscent to a degree of Wilson Fist's origin. Yes, yes, he because he admires Wilson Fist so much, he kind of is playing both sides at the moment because he likes BB, but at the same time, he also is an admirer and definitely a hardcore supporter of Fisk. And then having to do something the Fisk had to do, which was Fisk killing his dad to protect his mom, him killing Buck to protect BB, be like himself, yeah. But yeah, that could turn into baby fisk coming along.

SPEAKER_06 1:58:57

Well, that could have left another little caveat to like, ooh, things are getting crazy.

SPEAKER_00 1:59:01

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:59:02

You know, like I think that I think that'd have been fun. Not that I have a problem with what they did. It just it's just it felt oh duh. We knew this was coming.

SPEAKER_00 1:59:12

To me, it was a great scene. I don't know where they're gonna go from here with um Buck and BB, to be honest, because this this whole scene felt like the conclusion of the season for them.

SPEAKER_06 1:59:24

Yeah, well, they're not gonna kill her. It's no, they're not all of that to just see her die is not. And I don't know what Buck's gonna do.

SPEAKER_00 1:59:30

You know, Buck's main mission is kind of done to that degree. We're gonna see whatever they have one more episode of this to see what they're gonna do with him as a character.

SPEAKER_06 1:59:39

I mean, how great would let me just just follow me here. Daniel kills Buck in self-defense when he comes to kill him over this whole thing, and he goes into hiding with BB after the shake of hands of Daredevil and and Kingpin. They all are working together at some point. What an awkward, crazy little group of people that would make an excellent third season.

SPEAKER_01 1:59:58

I agree.

SPEAKER_06 1:59:59

You know what I'm saying? Of like sounds cool. That would be cool, right? Like they're all put into a corner, none of them want to be around each other, right? They all got their own little sides. It to me, it would be that would be kind of a if I was the writer, I'd be like, I would be like, why aren't we killing Buck, guys? Yeah, like let's just let's let these people go, what? Let's let them just go for it, you know. And and guys, that I'm just talking about this. This does not negative at all. They did a great job. They built this up, they get you got your payoff, we knew it was coming. It yeah, it was a little cookie cutter or predictable, sure, but it worked well. It was emotional, it was nice. Like I liked this guy, I liked Daniel. I didn't want to see Daniel go. So when he went, it's it does add stakes to this. Things are happening. I agree. So the positive of this happening is that this buck guy's dangerous, you know, and we don't know how dangerous yet, you know. We're getting an idea. And BB's in on the run, man.

SPEAKER_00 2:00:53

She's uh she's in trouble here, you know. That's that's what I predict the next episode for Buck's conclusion is him finding BB or looking for BB type thing, you know. Yeah, and I don't think that's gonna get resolved in this season.

SPEAKER_06 2:01:06

No, I think we're gonna just get another step of it, and but it's gonna continue on. Yeah. Um, yeah. But it I was just saying for ambition-wise, I mean, wouldn't that have blown your mind if Daniel got the best of him and that's what we ended the show on? They'd be like, what? Mm-hmm. Like that wasn't planned, you know. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:01:22

Yeah.

unknown 2:01:23

All right.

SPEAKER_00 2:01:23

Well, so what were your thoughts on the episode overall while we're making this up?

SPEAKER_06 2:01:27

Overall, I wish this was two episodes ago. I wish that this was another build to more things. Um, it supports my theory of them shaking hands. It still can be done, guys. It still can be done. Um, it also has created me to have a new theory. But overall, guys, watch this episode. It's a great episode, it's awesome. Um, this the show is really good. It's all gonna be on the landing. If they don't stick the landing, that's when you're gonna hear me go negative Nelly. Um, but because they have done real well, but they've definitely put themselves in a corner for me personally. If this doesn't sell me on wanting to come back for the next season, I'll still do it. We'll still do it for the pod. Um, but still don't be surprised if you're gonna be like, well, there's that light guy who doesn't like Daredevil. Because I'm just gonna be honest with you. I'll give it its flowers when they're due, and I'm gonna give you its crap when it's due, too. Um, my new theory though is I think he's gonna out himself as Matt Murdock is Daredevil. I think he's yep, I think he's gonna do that before Fisk does. Because I think this is cornering him by coming in like this, because now the only thing he does have on Matt, with Matt doing what he's doing by representing Karen, is I know who you are, what are you doing? I could ruin your whole life right now and turn you back into the bad guy real easy, like, and I got nothing to lose because everything I got is dead right now. So, but I think Matt's gonna do it first. I think he's gonna be the one out himself as Daredevil to prove him wrong, which is probably what's gonna take him out of being the mayor, probably put him in jail, and probably what you're seeing in the photos of next season is he's broken out of jail and he's hiding somewhere. That's my other guess of what's going on.

SPEAKER_00 2:03:14

My my initial thoughts of that would be I agree with you on the last part that him coming out as Matt Murdoch being Daredevil will put Mayor Fisk out. I do agree with that. It'll prove everything he's saying wrong. And I think that the governor will have part of that and the um because a governor does actually have the power to remove a mayor if he or she feels that it's a threat to the state. Well, that will out him. I think that's part of it. Yeah, that'll out him so darkly. And I wouldn't even be surprised if you get a scene like that where the governor is talking to V Louis Dreyfus right there, and they're like, Yep, this is this is my big play, is I'm gonna get you out type thing.

SPEAKER_06 2:03:54

Yeah. But I So he's because I think Daredevil's gonna have to sacrifice to win. And I think that's that's what he was alluding to, that we're gonna have to cross a line. And I think everyone's thinking, does that mean he's gonna kill somebody? No, I think he's gonna out himself.

SPEAKER_00 2:04:08

I wonder, though, if Fisk is gonna out him though, first to try to win his case against Karen Page, saying, I know I propped him up as a hero, but you gotta know he's actually a vigilante. And then he unexpectedly gets the backlash from that from higher powers of bee.

SPEAKER_06 2:04:26

You know, that's that's that's interesting. I think the backlash from the higher powers of bee is definitely more suitable. But I I don't I think whoever, if they use, if they do this, might not be at all on their plate, right? This speculation. Yeah. If they do this, whereas I the identity of him makes this the difference, it's gotta be whoever does it first is the winner. Because if Daredevil does it first, then it shows the level of deception publicly, then now cannot be denied. And that's gonna make everybody go, yeah, he's done. You know, you know, Fisk is he's he's definitely we we put up with it for so long, but now there's not much we can say or do to keep him in this power, right? If Fisk does it first, he could easily say, I didn't know until now. And they're not gonna get rid of him because he's still gonna be a victim of a bad daredevil. I get that. You see what I'm trying to say? I can see that like maybe their backlash of how you handled it isn't gonna work, but they're not gonna get rid of him if the public thinks he's a victim. No, you they have to paint the kingpin as what he's gonna do. They're gonna have to suck it up and deal with it. So he's gotta expose him first by letting himself be exposed. I think that's what he means when he says there's gonna be lines that we have to cross, just might not be the ones you think. And I think that's him giving up his his security of who he is. Which puts him in a very peculiar position moving forward. I think that's more likely what's going to happen. Yeah. Personally, you know.

SPEAKER_00 2:05:56

I like your theory too. I I mean, guys, I guess now at this point, it's up to you who which of our two theories do you think is gonna be the one that's gonna happen? Do you think none of this is gonna happen? You got your own theory, of course. We are hyped. Yeah, we want to see the the finale next week. We're excited to see what's gonna happen and break it all down for you in the next episode.

SPEAKER_06 2:06:17

Maybe Spider-Man shows up and just ends this whole thing. We do see Avengers Tower in this in the beginning, you know, in the background.

SPEAKER_00 2:06:23

It's gonna be we do actually. Yeah, I like that. I that was a little nod to.

SPEAKER_06 2:06:27

They're all just kind of standing there going, should we do something about this? Nah, don't worry about it.

SPEAKER_00 2:06:31

Yeah, no, no.

SPEAKER_06 2:06:32

I just I just imagine like Spider-Man out there right now, like doing what is he doing if this stuff is happening? Like, what are we not seeing that's happening, right? Maybe that's what we're gonna get in the new Spider-Man movie. By the way, you know, he's one line in the movie. Hey, who's gonna do something about the mayor? Well, I got all these other bad guys I'm fighting. It's like to me, it's like, I don't know. If you're Spider-Man and this guy's doing this crap, you're not sitting around. I and you know, I get it. This is my problem with these shows and the and what's going on with things, but hey, that's that's beyond what how good or I'm not gonna, I'm not putting that into my review, fellas, of or ladies and gentlemen, of how I feel about the show because it is good. But my my big brain of this whole thing goes, where's freaking Spider-Man? Don't get too big because we're gonna say, Where are you, Spider-Man? Like, what's going on?

SPEAKER_01 2:07:23

They have I or where's Doctor Strange? He lives there too. He's in the dark dimension right now.

SPEAKER_06 2:07:29

Oh, that's right. He's off with some lady who's off. I apologize. That's how much that means nothing to me. Anyways.

SPEAKER_00 2:07:37

Sorry. Gosh, but yeah, no, I actually do agree with you on that point, is that depending on how big they go with this, because I mean, let's face it, the finale of season one of Born Again, that was pretty big. Then you had a movie coming out with thunderbolts being set in New York City and all that, and be like, at one point, you have to acknowledge it's just like that thing coming out of the ocean. Yeah, the Indian ocean. You got to acknowledge the elephant in the room, the the celestial in the ocean. You got to acknowledge it.

SPEAKER_06 2:08:05

You're right. The Avengers Towers, right? There's a whole team sitting there waiting to do something.

SPEAKER_00 2:08:09

Yeah, like what is going on?

SPEAKER_06 2:08:11

No one's gonna go down there to the mayor and say, dude.

SPEAKER_00 2:08:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 2:08:14

We know what you're doing.

SPEAKER_00 2:08:15

Like, yeah, so that just takes one of them. Marvel, you you you have a way to do it. So I'm just curious how you're gonna do it. And I know in the Spider-Man brand new day thing you have to touch upon it because Frank Castle's in it, all this different stuff is in it. So, what is Spider-Man doing? We'll have to find out come the end of July, guys. So, to wrap this up again, question is for you guys what are your thoughts on this episode? Do you agree with us? Do you not agree with us? What's your theories for the next episode? And how excited are you to see the finale of Daredevil Born Again Season 2? I'm excited. All right. The next thing we're gonna touch on, guys, stay tuned. We're getting into our retrospective review of Iron Man Three. Oh boy, here we go.

SPEAKER_06 2:08:56

Yeah, all right, guys. Welcome to our main event. It's our retrospective of the week, and today it's Iron Man 3. Boy, exciting, man. It's it's amazing that we're finishing a trilogy already that we've gotten this far, to be completely honest with you. But you know, yeah, it's gonna be fun to see how it goes. So, what we're gonna do is what we usually do, guys, we're gonna do a nice little breakdown of the history of this whole movie. Um, nice little synops. We'll go scene by scene, break it all down, do our questionnaire, and give us give you your ratings. So I'm gonna let Sammy take it from here and give us our our history of Iron Man 3, how'd this movie get made, Sam, and all the fun stuff about it.

SPEAKER_00 2:09:45

Okay, so my ride for this one seems a little bit shorter, but I wanted to get right to the point for uh the making of this movie because at this point we're done with phase one. So, really, everything moving forward here, unless it's a really new project, there's not too much of the behind-the-scenes stuff, especially for um a third uh movie of a um trilogy of movies. There wasn't too much new to discuss here, but there's a couple new things that they did. So I'll give you the history behind the film. Uh first off, Iron Man 3 was released on May 3rd, 2013, one exact year almost after the first Avengers movie. It was the first movie, of course, after the Avengers. So the main cast included Robert Downey Jr., Gwen F. Paltro, John Favreau, Don Cheeto, and welcoming Guy Pierce, Rebecca Hall, and Ben Kingsley. So, when Marvel Studios began production in Iron Man 3, the Cinematic Universe had just changed Hollywood forever. The Avengers in 2012 became a global phenomenon and proved that a shared cinematic universe could dominate the box office. That meant Iron Man 3 wasn't just another sequel, it was the first MCU film released after the Avengers, carrying enormous expectations and launching what Marvel called phase two. The studio had momentum unlike anything in modern franchise history. Fans wanted to know how does Tony Stark react after fighting aliens and nearly dying in space? That question became the emotional core of Iron Man 3. Director Shane Black replaced John Favreau and reunited with Robert Downey Jr., whom he had previously directed in Kiss Kiss Bang Bang. Black wanted a more personal, character-driven story focused on Tony Stark dealing with anxiety, trauma, and proving he was more than the suit. Filming took place mainly in North Carolina, Florida, Los Angeles, and included special scenes shot for the Chinese market. At the time, Robert Downing Jr. had become one of the biggest stars in the world and the face of the MCU, while Gwen Paltro and Don Cheeto returned in their expanded roles. Ben Kingsley's casting. As The Mandarin created huge buzz, with Guy Pierce and Rebecca Hall joining the cast as key new characters. Production faced a temporary delay when Downey Jr. injured his ankle onset, but some of the fun facts of this film, guys, include Tony's Malboon Mansion inspired by spy thrillers, and the introduction of dozens of new Iron Man armors in the House Party Protocol finale. Upon the release in 2013, Iron Man 3 earned strong reviews with a 79% Rotten Tomatoes critic score and roughly 78% audience score. Though some fans were divided by the Mandarin twist, we will get there, folks. Financially, it was a massive success, grossing about $1.2 billion worldwide against a $200 million budget, becoming the first Iron Man film to cross a billion dollars and improving Marvel's momentum after the Avengers was only growing. So that is the basic behind the film history for Iron Man 3. So I failed to write down the synopsis, but I'm gonna look that up right now for Ike to read.

SPEAKER_06 2:13:18

By the way, folks, if you haven't seen Kiss Kiss Bang Bang, go watch that movie. It's phenomenal. I put up there, it's about a nine out of ten on my scale. Watch that movie, it's great.

SPEAKER_00 2:13:31

It's right up there.

SPEAKER_06 2:13:32

Alright, guys, I'm gonna give you a little quick synopsis right here, right here. Yep. Okay, Iron Man's 3, this is what the movie's about right here. Played with worry and insomnia since saving New York from destruction. Tony Stark now is more dependent on the suits that give him his Iron Man persona. So much so that every aspect of his life is affected, including his relationship with Pepper. After a malevolent enemy known as the Mandarin reduces his personal world to rubble, Tony must rely solely on instinct and ingenuity to avenge his losses and protect the people he loves.

SPEAKER_00 2:14:13

There you go.

SPEAKER_06 2:14:14

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 2:14:15

So what are your thoughts initially? Is there anything you think I missed from the history part that you want to include in there?

SPEAKER_06 2:14:21

No, I I think you hit it all. I and I did I threw that other shout out for Kiss Kiss Bang Bang. I really do think people should. Have you seen that movie? I haven't no. That'd be a good one for us to do in review because it's uh it's very, very, very funny and it's very good. Him and Val Kilmer together in it is spectacular. And it's I can see why they picked Shane for this type of movie while when we talk about it. Um, but I also see the faults in a lot of it. So yeah, no, I'm good. Let's get into her, you know? All right. Well, let's see. I can get right here with act one.

SPEAKER_00 2:14:53

All right, go right ahead. Take it away, brother.

SPEAKER_06 2:14:55

So, guys, act one, let me flip the page, yeah. After the events of the Avengers, Tony Stark is suffering from severe anxiety and PTSD, obsessively building Iron Man suits while struggling to sleep or function normally. Meanwhile, a mysterious terrorist known as the Mandarin begins launching devastating attacks when Stark publicly challenges the Mandarin. His home is destroyed, and he is believed dead after barely escaping in a damaged suit. So, Sammy, why don't you uh hit us off? What'd you think of this and what worked for you? Let's go with what worked first, because I see you got a lot for what didn't, which is cool.

SPEAKER_00 2:15:38

All right, so as as we alluded to in the last episode in the IR in the Avengers movie, guys, I I I usually have been a little more um, and this is just my general feeling of this. I base a lot of this off of how I felt and what continuity-wise would work for me or don't work for me, and things like that when I came to my scoring. And I am such a lover of the MCU and of Marvel in general that there are times where I could be a little blinded to any of the flaws within some of the stories or within some of the movies and things like that. That's why I think Ike and I are a great balance of each other, because you could look at it, Ike, as more of a film type aspect, and I could look at it as more of a comic book accuracy type aspect where we can be able to mesh them together and you can tell that a good story could have both comic book accuracy and just a really great.

SPEAKER_06 2:16:29

And we temper each other well too. If you if I feel like when you're talking about when you don't or you do or like or do or don't like something, I can kind of reel you back in and say, hey, look, yeah, maybe you're not looking at this way. And you do the same for me as well.

SPEAKER_00 2:16:41

And on both things. I could be like super high, but like, I love it, love it, love it. Then you're like, oh, hold on, there's this, this, and this. And then vice versa. I could say, oh, I really didn't like it. You'd be like, well, maybe look at it this way, things like that. So I have to say that caveat before going into this film, because I will start off real quick and just say for overall of the film, this is my least favorite uh Iron Man movie. But we're gonna get to them bit by bit as we get break down these acts. So, what worked for me? Start positive. What worked for me? I loved the 1999 opening scene. I think that was kind of cool to revisit something to start establishing who these bad guys are gonna be for Iron Man. Uh it I like giving a little taste of some of these people's origin because it shows how they're fleshed out years later. So I didn't mind that. I thought it was a cool concept and great to set up. I liked the setup of AIM. I'm actually surprised it took them this long to establish this uh entity because this is arguably in Marvel Comics the biggest. Um it's funny. We we saw an Iron Man 2, Justin Hammer and Hammer Industries being a big competitor for Stark Industries. Well, AIM kind of is the same way too. And no offense to Hammer Industries, but AIM is more known in the comics of being a big affront to uh superheroes in general, but mainly to Tony Stark. So it's nice that we finally get a mention of them come the third movie of this, but we're gonna see how that may not work so well later on. Anyways, um I think that this was a great opener for my my favorite part of act one was the opening, getting it set up. Is when they brought it to present day that I take a lot of my issues with. But what what worked for you?

SPEAKER_06 2:18:36

Well, I'm gonna keep it simple with what worked for me because what worked for me is gonna be more of you and me having an argument about what didn't work for you, which is okay though, because that's what we're here for, right? Yes, yes. So what did work for me is I will everything you just said about that beginning worked for me too, for sure. I the introduction of everybody, uh the choice of using Eiffel 65s, uh that was good. It's a great opening song, you know, because it also kind of foretells you know, a little foreshadowing of how he feels, right, about things. But on top of it, it's this is like pure back in the day when Tony was a jerk, you know. And I I love the stuff with Happy and as being over zealous as a security guy, you know, jumping on him after the plant explodes, you know, all that stuff. Um, this is where some of the funniest things are, you know. Um I and I like this is a very Shane Black thing to do in a movie where your main character starts off the movie with a narration. When we watch Kiss Kiss Hank Bang Bang, you're gonna realize that whole movie is narrated by Robert Downey Jr., like all the way through. There's lots of moments where he's almost like he's reading you a mystery book while you're watching it happen, and it's hilarious. And it works because Robert does well in this, and so him narrating this like he's telling it from his point of view is perfect.

SPEAKER_01 2:19:52

I like that too, actually.

SPEAKER_06 2:19:53

Yep. And I like Guy showing up. Guy Pierce is Guy Pierce, guys, is on my list of top 10 most underrated best actors out there. The problem is he's not good in this movie. I'm gonna give you that right now from the start. And I when I watch him in this, I get so frustrated because he is so good in other things. You got a glimpse of him when we were watching Lawless the other day at Grandma and Grandpa's, and he's real good in that. Um, you almost probably don't remember that he's in it. That's how good he was. He's like he was the bad guy in that. He slicked back hair with the gloves on.

SPEAKER_00 2:20:28

Oh, yes.

SPEAKER_06 2:20:28

That's Guy Pierce.

SPEAKER_00 2:20:29

Oh, yes, that's right. Yeah, oh, he was good.

SPEAKER_06 2:20:31

Wild, right? He's he's unrecognizable sometimes when he's in things. Unrecognizably good. Phenomenal actor. Well, I don't know what happened here, you know, other than it's the story that's the problem because it's not the guy. But well the introduction of him though, with the long hair being all nerdy with the limp and stuff, I enjoy. I'm like, yeah, this guy, there's something to this guy. I like seeing what's going on. I enjoy this a lot. Um yeah. So then I and I like that. Well, we'll get to that part of it because it's later. Um, but yeah, so I we can jump right into what didn't work because I just enjoy that beginning of the whole thing. I do feel a little the DNA thing with the botanists and all that. I feel like that's the part of this movie I struggle with the most. Although I get what's going on, I get what they're doing. I just wish there was a different thing that they were trying to do that made this progress forward. But I guess this was the only way to do it. I I don't know. Well, I that's one of the hiccups that come it. It only is a problem because of what happens later. It's not so much that that's the problem, it's that it's not a very fleshed out thing, you know, truthfully. So let's jump right into this thing we're gonna do. Do you want to just tell me all of it and I'll kind of come at you in points, or do you want me to interrupt you, or how do you want to do it? Because there's I've read some of what you got here and I already got some things to say. But it's but I get it. You know, I see what I I'll just take notes as you talk and then we'll go.

SPEAKER_00 2:22:04

Okay.

SPEAKER_06 2:22:04

From there.

SPEAKER_00 2:22:04

So if and if I'm moving on to a completely different part of the act that you want to say before we move forward, let me just say my point of view on it. Then by all means, oh yeah, I know. If I feel like I gotta say something, I will. I will say though, about the botanist thing. I did look this up because I was wondering how much of this movie was completely original versus um based off a comic book. And there is a comic book um about the extremists.

SPEAKER_06 2:22:30

Oh, there is.

SPEAKER_00 2:22:31

So this is something that is in the comics. So I will give them their credit here that this is something that's in the comics. It wasn't just some random thing. Because I thought that Aldric Killian, I believe that's his name, the character. Aldric, yeah. Aldric, I thought he was a completely new guy. He's not. He actually is a mix of two other characters. Okay. So that's why to me he came off a little weird for me personally, and I kept thinking, is there really this character? Because you know, sometimes, sometimes they would make a brand new character for a movie just to push a narrative or whatever. And so I wanted to make sure who was comic accurate, who wasn't. Is this something that's a completely original idea, or is this inspired by something? And then I want, of course, the comic book nerd of me, want to compare and contrast. And so that's how I found out that yes, there is a character, Aldrich Killian. I I'm sorry I'm butching it on the top of my head here, but um in the the comics, but he is not the same character. Okay. This character is kind of a mix mash of him and another more popular um or more up front and center character, which I I forget in the top of my head. So please comment down below, guys, uh who I'm referring to. Um, anyways, what doesn't work? Well, for me, a lot this is something I talked about the last episode, guys. When you establish a connected universe now with the Avengers, going forward from there, you have to be very creative in how to write the solo films from that point onward on how to make it where it is just their films, but also you can't ignore now the bigger universes outside that they've already established. And Marvel has done a really great job since the Avengers of being able to do their solo stories and also say, yeah, we know all this other stuff is happening too. This is just the only film that they didn't do that, and that's where I find the biggest disconnect. And when we get to our next episode after this with Winter Soldier, or I'm sorry, with Thor as the next one, and then Winter Soldier, they did them perfect how they're supposed to be done after an Avengers film. I don't think Iron Man 3 was, and I think that that really is what highlighted a lot of the continuity errors for me personally when I'm watching this, because now I'm watching this not just as uh Tony's uh Iron Man 1, 2, and 3. Now I'm watching this as Iron Man 1, 2, Avengers 1, and then Iron Man 3. So what didn't work for me is SHIELD not being involved in anything going on in the first film of Iron Man, Shield was a part of um like figuring out who Tony was at the end with that cliffhanger, and then in Iron Man 2, Shield was all over the place with McFury with Black Widow's introduction, all that stuff. In this one, you hear nothing about any of them. I don't even know if they mentioned the word SHIELD in this movie. So that that part for me, when you have a terrorist like the Mandarin presenting himself to the world, and Iron Man feeling like he's the only one who could take this down, that's where I feel like okay, you're now part of a bigger universe. Had this movie come out before Avengers 1, I'd say that wasn't wouldn't be a problem for me. But now that it's after Avengers 1, that's a problem. So that that's the the first thing I would say. Um, a global terrorism, yet only Iron Man is given self-permission to stop him without the assistance of anybody else, type thing. Um that's that was one of my bigger gripes about that. Um let's see, and also the the next thing I would say that didn't work for me is Tony revealing his home address in Malibu. I'm sorry guys, if you're as big of a guy as Tony Stark, with all due respect, he lost his privacy when at the end of the first Iron Man movie he says, I am Iron Man. Because everyone who knows about Tony Stark, anyone who knows any celebrities over in Hollywood, and and I know that they try to keep their private life separate as possible, but with the paparazzi you have and the super fans and all that stuff, there is no way that it's taken them almost three movies later for them to finally find out where his address is. So the villains know where he lives. That's no secret. Maybe getting to his house will be harder because he is Tony Stark, he's got the security guards, he's got the you know, all the armor stuff all around. Yeah, I get that. Uh I'll give you that. But knowing his address, that's the part I didn't buy. I yeah. Um that's hard for me to believe that no one knew his address. And now he gave it to the terrorists. Come on, guys. That's my thought. So that's the two biggest gripes I have about the first act. And um I'm curious what your thoughts are.

SPEAKER_06 2:27:48

Um what didn't work for you. Yeah, so I'm gonna be honest with you. I like this first act. Okay. The thing that you have me on that I will give you props to is the the absence of shield when it comes down to the terrorist organ. I'm not saying the absence of shield in Tony's life because I I think the the relationship between Tony and Shield has always kind of been a like a like on a graph, and it's and it's kind of like I think Tony controls that more than we understand. I don't think Tony really lets Shield tell him what to do or where to go or how to do things. Yeah. Um, but it comes down to them not being on top of the terrace thing and being a like the MacGuffin that could fix all this. Yeah. I think this is probably the only movie that they did in the cinematic universe where they were like, Do you think we can get away with this one more time without having them being too involved? And they do for me until later. This is my this is my problem with the movie in general, is like I am sold until a certain point of this movie. Um, so I'm okay with the absence of SHIELD with things happening fast enough, especially with him being a presumed dead. And I think that was the smartest thing they could do. I think that takes him out of that realm of why there's no one around to help him if nobody knows where he is. Now, of course, does SHIELD really not know where he is? Because this is SHIELD. But that is also you and I assuming that SHIELD's competent as they are, as they seem to be. And I think when we get to future movies, we find out they're not so much, right? Yeah. Also, we also in future movies we do learn that SHIELD is more compromised than we know. So there might be more helping in this situation than when it comes down to it. If Sam Jackson's off planet and Natasha and what's his face are undercover somewhere, you know, Colson's dead. The other one, you know, uh Maria Hill's kind of just keeping things going. You're talking half the people that we'd expect to be involved in already could be explained away in two or three lines. Now, yes, they don't do that, and they should have. But Sam's used that excuse before. When you get the Spider-Man, you know, uh far from home, he could call anybody he wants to help with the situation that's going on of these giant monsters that are trying to take over the world, one that's gonna so overheat everything and everyone's gonna die. And the only one he ends up calling is Spider-Man. You can't get a hold of nobody else, you know? So, like, and he usually he gives the off-world, this or that. Don't he even says, Don't even, I don't even want to call that one. You know what I mean? Yeah. So this is this is something that has been that we have to juggle on what we're gonna do, put up with, anyways, in general. Like, why don't certain people show up? A lot of the real answer to it is the faster the bad things can happen where people can't show up, the better. Because then then it's like you're taking that element out of it. So in this movie, in later, that is a problem. Later, it's a problem. Right now, for me, it's not while I'm watching it. So I'm trying to break this act by act because I could easily say the part of this movie that doesn't work for me ruins the rest, because it kind of does. But I'm not gonna lie, though, if you're we're just talking about this first part of the movie, a chill doesn't even cross my mind during all this. And I think the thing with the address, I think you're picking nits because I don't think it's that people don't know his address and that the terrorists don't know his address. I think the point of that scene was he was calling them out, he was trying to provoke them, yeah. And I think that they were just gonna be like, now where this scene falls apart is later. It's not now, it's later. And well, I I'll even I'll kind of give you that right now. Right now it works just fine. I think this is Tony just being, you know, hey, listen here. You almost just killed not only my head of security and all that bull stuff, but a good friend of his, you know, which which is more believable. Yeah, and and he turns around and literally threatens the I'm gonna kill the Mandarin.

SPEAKER_00 2:31:54

Mm-hmm. Yeah, he's dead to me.

SPEAKER_06 2:31:55

I think it was exactly some like I'm just gonna I'm going to recover the body, is all he's saying. These are his words. Dare I say, this might be the most mature MCU movie we've got. They kill a lot of people in this movie compared to the rest. There's some killing going on. Like he blasts a hole through that one guy's chest, like yeah, dead, dead. So that's and I and I have no problems with it. I'm I like this movie for it. Um, but I love all this stuff in this in this whole sequence. Like, I love I think the action, by the way, is some of the best we've ever seen of Iron Man. I agree. When he does this and he puts the suit on her to save her life during the whole explosion, that is that is amazing. Amazing. Yeah, like I agree. The whole scene of them taking the place down is amazing. He's funny in this, the anger he has on top of it when he's like when he's arguing with Pepper about when the girl shows up and they're arguing about her. Like just that whole scene, the bear or the rabbit, I mean, that he makes for her. That's because he's all like jealous about how she's talking to that guy. Like he I love all this stuff, and and we and we get another taste of what we got in Iron Man 1 and 2, specifically more one, where he's you know, building things and he's doing his own vlog of okay, take one, we're gonna do this, and he's talking. I love this is all peak Iron Man stuff. Yeah, I think he's some of the funniest stuff is in this part of this movie. I think it's a lot of it's real smart. I I do enjoy a lot of that stuff. Um, what's the other one I was gonna point out to you? I like that this is a Christmas movie.

SPEAKER_00 2:33:32

I do too, actually.

SPEAKER_06 2:33:34

I I think that works a lot.

SPEAKER_00 2:33:35

I hear that Shane Black likes doing that type of stuff, though.

SPEAKER_06 2:33:38

He likes the uh yeah, Kiss Kiss Bang Bang's a Christmas movie, and so isn't the nice guys. They're also Christmas movies. And Predator, actually, believe it or not, takes place in December. It's also a Christmas movie. When you watch Predator, it's the beginning of the it's like three days before Christmas. Oh, yeah, Shane and Shane Black also directed Lee the Weapon, which is more of a Christmas movie than Die Hard. Come at me. Anyway, that just started a lot of fights. Because everyone's like, Diehard's a Christmas movie. You see more Christmas trees in Lisa Weapon than you do Die Hard. Anyway, um we'll get there someday, guys. Yeah. But yeah, I love that it's a Christmas movie. I love that he saves Pepper. Um I I I enjoy what he's got going on here with his PTSD and his anxiety. I think one of the things I heard from a lot of podcasters or from a lot of things I've read that they think is kind of whiny. I'm like, I don't know. We need a character like this. And if it's gonna be any of them, it's gonna be him. Because out of all of them, he's the smartest, but he's the worst at collecting his own emotions. And and it speaks a lot to what he's still dealing with from being in that cave. I agree. His entire course through this entire journey in the Infinity Saga is him dealing with these emotions of not being alive. Should I be alive? I mean, look how many times he should have died already. You know what I mean? And he just in New York was another time. So and it and it bothers him what he saw because he is now someone that does care because of this near life, you know, near death experience he had back in the day, and here he is having it again. And it's like he he just is not good at emoting what that really means to him, you know what I'm saying? So yeah. Yeah, it I just I I hear your I hear what you're talking about here with the no shield thing. That's the one thing I will tell you. It does bother me when you say it. I'm like, man, he's got a good point.

SPEAKER_00 2:35:38

And I won't just say I do agree with you. The I I've always enjoyed Tony trying something new of his suits, and we see it because I think that's a lot of that stuff that people don't show, and I love that about the first Iron Man in particular. And so I liked that he was doing something very new with putting things in blind. It's pretty awesome. When you watched it, I was like, holy smokes, did you just put it inside you? Like you still had that shrapnel thing, which is another thing they really don't touch upon too much until the very end. But, anyways, um that what the heck? I liked his moves when he was doing it, and it was so fun, and then playing around with it. I thought I loved all that stuff to degree. Yeah, and I do agree with you about the um the cinematography for this one. Oh notch compared to the other holy moly, what a whole step. You can tell Disney took over because this is yes, this is leveled up.

SPEAKER_06 2:36:30

All of a sudden there's money, right?

SPEAKER_00 2:36:31

And the music, even the the music's better, don't think about it. And we'll get to those those when we do those. So I'm just trying to give I do like this. It's just the parts that stick out to me when I'm watching it. I'm like, you don't mention it or touch upon it. And that's the part where I'm like, okay, I would go yeah. Or are you not?

SPEAKER_06 2:36:52

Anyways. I'll give you the I'll give you the shield thing, but I do I do want you to to reconsider at least the the other part that because that would bother some people if that's what they wanted you to think. But I don't think that's what what the point was. I don't even think that um the news media showing up was because they didn't know where he lived. I think they're there because he threatened the Mandarin. I I get that. I think it's all just become a show and and that and they retaliated back, like, oh yeah, well, here we come. You know, where if that falls apart though later, the reasoning behind this falls apart later. I agree. But here it works fine for me. So yeah, that's that's where I'm at. What didn't work, I don't have much that doesn't other than now, I will admit. Yeah, we could have used a couple lines of at least tell us why SHIELD's not around. Like we don't need him here. I don't want him in this movie. I don't want SHIELD in this movie. But yeah, you could at least say, you know, oh, I wish Nick was around and not where the hell is he? Or gosh, right when we need him, where is he? You know, and because then at least in our minds it sets this idea that okay, he's not around. So later in other movies, when he says off-world things, we can realize, oh, there's a bigger picture to his life. And I is a bigger picture to his life.

SPEAKER_00 2:38:09

I would have settled for a one little quick learner phone call to Tony of Nick or Maria, or probably Nick would be the best person to deliver it, saying, shut the heck up. I'm in the middle of something right now, and you're now making me have to look at you. Yeah. That would have been enough for me to say, okay, SHIELD is still there, and they're just doing it. They're just saying, hey, like, yeah, they're in the middle of something else. They probably figured the US government is gonna take care of the Middle East terrorists that that's what uh in real history, what we do, type thing. And SHIELD is under the UN, so I'm gonna give them all their their props and do's there. But a simple little now Tony's inserted himself into the conversation and he is an established Avenger that Nick Fury had set up. That would have been enough for me to say, okay, if they added that in, I would have forgiven that whole part right there of SHIELD not even being thought of. But that's the thing, SHIELD wasn't even thought of in this whole conversation. Yeah, it to me that's what it was like a a blatant, like, you know, this is before Shield fell in a couple movies from now. So after that, I can't use that crutch anymore. That excuse. But I think that's one reason why they wanted to fall. Because they're like because like, damn, we gotta put you guys everywhere. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So, anyways.

SPEAKER_06 2:39:23

No, yeah, so I I will give you that part, but you know, I I think I think it it's it's safe to say we can kind of lean on having a little more fun with the other stuff like that.

SPEAKER_00 2:39:32

And I could, you know, if I had to really rethink the address thing, it is well within Tony's behavior to say something like that. Because even if people know his address, him saying it out loud is kind of that challenge of snarky to something. Yeah, you you want to come at me, I'm at 455 Malibu Way, whatever the heck it is. Like, you know, like I could see that. So if I had to be a little more lenient on that, I would say that that wasn't that big of a stickler to me. So I'll concede to that part.

SPEAKER_06 2:40:05

Yeah, one of the parts about this I really liked a lot is when Happy does get hurt, he knows enough to point at something because he knows Tony's gonna look later. See, that's that's awesome. I like that caveat.

SPEAKER_00 2:40:16

I like that, and actually part of that scene that's playing back right now, and this is the part that I would say I know in the next um, because guys, we had this on in the background while we're while we're filming this for you guys, um, in recording. I was gonna touch upon in the next act, and I definitely am gonna touch upon more so, but that is true that that is part of this first act too. Yeah, is that the one thing that we talked about, I think it was in the last episode actually, was how similar he is to Batman without being the tech the um detective part. Yeah, and then here we get this. I forgot all about that. Watching this movie, I'm thinking I thought the same thing when I was watching that honestly for me, that saves a lot of this movie for me because it's the part of the Tony that I would expect be like he is naturally curious and he wants to know what happened to his friend, and forensics are only gonna do so much because he has the technology to actually recreate the scene. That's cool. Um, this is before Barf came up in Super War. Yeah, that's right. So, like, this is the best way of doing it for right now. I like that. That whole scene is great, magnificent. Yeah, and I give that props, yeah. Actually, that that gives me props. I'm giving it one extra point.

SPEAKER_06 2:41:27

Oh, look at that, guys. We got a point out of them.

SPEAKER_00 2:41:30

Yeah, I will I will be a little nicer. All right.

SPEAKER_06 2:41:32

I do love that happy only points to that because he just knows later it's gonna be you know to me. That's that's the smartness. I'm like, this wow, what great writing. That's why later I'm like so disappointed.

SPEAKER_00 2:41:41

But anyway, and still the cinematography, like we've said, and we're gonna I'm gonna say this throughout the whole thing as we're talking about this guy. It is the best visually. I if I remember right, this was the first time the Marvel Studios was up for an Academy Award for Visual Effects. If I remember right, I have to look this up. Please correct me if I'm wrong, Aaronette. But I do remember something like this coming up. And if that if my memory serves me right, I see why. Because there's no denying how amazing this looked. So well, anyways.

SPEAKER_06 2:42:12

Yep. Um my standout moment's the same as yours.

SPEAKER_00 2:42:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 2:42:16

The whole destruction of his home, the entire sequence is wow. You know, there's a lot happening going on there.

SPEAKER_00 2:42:22

And I agree with the pepper thing that you said. Yeah, so cool. I I can see where some people be like, oh, it goes on pepper, but it's so tough.

SPEAKER_05 2:42:28

That's what he would do.

SPEAKER_00 2:42:29

It's exactly what he would do. And it was smart, it wasn't to it wasn't Pepper becoming Iron Man, it was protecting her from hitting her head and becoming Gwen Stacy. You don't know.

SPEAKER_06 2:42:39

Or even when he stood there and he's like, I'll figure out how to get around, get out of here. And he has to tell her, don't think, just go. And it's like, wow, this is good stuff out of him. Yeah, that is it is happening right now. It is and he's just like it adds with the movement, like he knows exactly what he's doing. And and then when you're seeing it happen, you're like, Oh, yes, yes, that is that's what he would do. That's what he would do.

SPEAKER_00 2:43:02

You could tell the CGI is so like next level, and it's just I love the slow motion aspect of it and seeing how fast the suit's coming in real time. That's so cool.

SPEAKER_06 2:43:13

Yeah, that is really cool. So and keep in mind, this is during a time in Robert Downey Jr.'s life where I, if I'm not mistaken, and I I I don't want to say this in distaste if he ever if Robert ever hears this, I mean it'd be great, but I do believe he took up a lot of doing martial arts on the side as something in his life to help with him himself with what what he had going on in his life, you know, prior to. I think he learned to get spiritual with himself and and get busy doing like farming, and him and his wife got into a lot of stuff. Yeah, and one of the healthy habits he picked up to keep him out of doing what he had done before was martial arts. And I mean, you're not seeing a ton of martial arts in this, but you're seeing they're utilizing him at his age where he can still do it, and they said, Let's make this more of an action movie because you you're doing this.

SPEAKER_00 2:44:03

Well, doing those movements like this.

SPEAKER_06 2:44:05

And you and as you see later, the moves that he does on people and the stuff that he all the stuff it's he's having a good time making this movie with things that he's just got done learning about how to use his body, which is and as he's gotten older, we don't see it as much, but he's an older guy now, you know, as compared to this time. We forget how long ago this movie was. Oh, you know, and then it's like he still looks great, yeah. But like all this all these stunts and the things that you're seeing where you do get to see, oh, I can tell that's really uh Robert doing it. This is yeah, he's at prime peak of his body here, like he's in great shape. He's having a good time with all these moves that he's learned to do and just taking it back from her right there. It's it's some of the coolest stuff. Yeah, so just keep that in mind when you're watching this. I all throughout, even during the bad times of this movie, I have no problem with any of the actions except one action sequence I have an issue with. But it's not necessarily the action, as it is what's happening. But yeah, it's yeah, other than that, the action is great in this film. It's great.

SPEAKER_00 2:45:04

Yeah, oh yeah.

SPEAKER_06 2:45:05

We'll we'll we'll talk about that as we go, but yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:45:07

All right, so I guess we've gotten to the the score of this, huh? What is your score?

SPEAKER_06 2:45:12

So I'm gonna I I'm gonna give you what you said about SHIELD. I'll take a point away because of the shield thing, since you were generous enough to put a point on because of remembering all this other cool, cool stuff. So I'm gonna give it an eight out of ten.

SPEAKER_04 2:45:26

Okay.

SPEAKER_06 2:45:27

So it was a nine.

SPEAKER_00 2:45:28

Okay, wow, okay, okay. Well I I originally had this as a five, but I I forgot that that Batman meets Tony Stark scene this first act. And I will say that is a personal favorite of mine throughout this whole movie, is that he utilized those type of capabilities. So, and I did concede a little bit to the address reveal now that I see it from a different perspective. So I'm giving it a six out of ten. Fair. That's fair. That's how this is gonna go, folks. All right. Uh um, I will read the act two then.

SPEAKER_04 2:46:06

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 2:46:06

Um let's see. The man without the suit, guys. Act two. Stranded without resources or armor, Tony investigates the Mandarin threat with the help of a young boy in Tennessee and uncovers that the attacks are actually orchestrated by Aldridge Killian using the extremist virus. Killian is revealed to be the true mastermind, using the Mandarin persona as propaganda while experimenting with unstable super soldier technology. Meanwhile, Pepper Potts is kidnapped and injected with extremists, becoming unstable but also enhanced. Tony weans Tony learns he must rely on intellect and improvision rather than suits to survive and uncover the truth. So for this Ike, what worked for you? Actually, I did write it down, actually. But anyways. So I think we made somewhat of a little bit of a mistake.

SPEAKER_04 2:47:13

The uh the well maybe not.

SPEAKER_06 2:47:23

Is it how it's probably how this is worded with acts broken down. I yeah, I was gonna say the thing with the pepper thing, I I don't I think that's more of an act three problem, right? Because we don't learn about pepper being tested and doing that until act three. So I'm gonna save and until we get to act three to talk about that, because that might be my biggest problem with the movie. Um, because this second act I like a lot. Uh so what worked for me? I like taking him out of his element and putting him somewhere else. The kid situation when I first saw this movie, I didn't like. I actually wasn't a fan of, but this time it actually works real well. And there's a lot of comedic moments here. But what I like about this movie is this is where Shane Black shines the best, is this becomes a mystery, right? It's not a hard mystery though. Like we're not we get it, we know Aim is behind it. It's not a big, you know, he shows up, shows the big brain, does all this stuff. We know he's the bad guy, okay? We don't know to what extent of being the bad guy he is, but he's the bad guy, right? Alar Rick is. And now we're just watching Tony figure this out as he goes. And I love this stuff. I like this this you are down now without your suit, because this uh this actually is something that he kind of has to go through in order for Spider-Man to work.

SPEAKER_04 2:48:53

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_06 2:48:54

Because he literally says to Peter, and that it's like if you you know you can't be nothing without the suit kind of thing. I can't remember the exact words. What do you say? Do you have the exact words? I'm trying to remember exactly what he said, but it sounded great. You know what I mean? He he's like, the idea is you're more than you're more than that suit, you know.

SPEAKER_00 2:49:10

He he asked Peter, um Peter said, uh Peter said, I'm nothing without the suit. Yeah, and then Tony says, Well, that's the problem. Yep.

SPEAKER_06 2:49:19

And this and this is where he learns this himself, right? And I think that that's good. I think that works. Um, I think the bad guys find him too fast there, but I know they're I know they're there for another reason, and he ends up being there. It kind of seems, you know, I don't know. Convenient, yeah. But well, but Jarvis did set that he was gonna go there anyways, so it wasn't too convenient. There is a reason why he's there.

SPEAKER_00 2:49:44

It's just it just was kind of okay. Oh no, I meant convenient as in that the bad guys were there at the same time he was there. Oh, yeah, the same exact time. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, the widow there was confused and thought that Tony was who called her, and it turns out no.

SPEAKER_06 2:49:59

But this is Shane Black's kind of writing. He does this often in his movies. And right now, in this act, it still makes sense to me. It's okay, it's fine. Those because the action scenes we get in there are freaking awesome, you know what I mean? And and there's a lot of good emotional stake here for Tony, and we start seeing it. I love when he lands in there and he's like laying in the suit, and he's like, open up, open up, open up, and it opens up and it gets out because I think he doesn't want to get trapped in it if it stops working, right? And I love Jarvis saying, Yeah, um, I think I'm going to sleep now. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:50:28

It's like I know I'm powering down.

SPEAKER_06 2:50:30

So this is how I'm going to sleep now. Yeah. And you know what? I always thought it was silly that he was gonna fix things in that little hut and like do that, but then I realized it's not as silly as it felt before, you know, because he was in a cave before. It's like, I mean, this at least this was a garage, this had stuff in it. Like he's if it's he's got the suit, he's got stuff, it's got heat. Tony can get out, he can figure this out. So he yeah, he it's no wonder he can figure out how to charge this thing and get it to work. And it's even if he does get this suit to work, it's not even a suit that works real well, right? Like it's a it's he's having a hard time with this one, which is real, which is I think a funny through line all the way through, to be honest. Um where are we at with that? Yeah, uh Pepperkin kidnapped and all that stuff. I mean, obviously, we knew this was coming. Oh, this was kind of cookie cutter, you know, but I'm fine with all that stuff, to be honest with you. I got no problem with all that. Um, I do like I not that I know I this kind of goes back to the first act real quick, but it's I just remembered it because you mentioned Jarvis. When he's underwater after his home falls in, I like that it's the suit that saves him where the hand comes off and then grabs him and pulls him up out of the rubble.

SPEAKER_00 2:51:42

Oh, yes, yes, that's cool.

SPEAKER_06 2:51:44

Some genius stuff that is cool. Like, yeah, I forgot about that.

SPEAKER_00 2:51:47

So you mentioned it. I'm like, oh yeah, that was really cool.

SPEAKER_06 2:51:50

Yeah. I I'm gonna save a couple of the things uh for what happens between him and this kid, um because it's gonna be on our questionnaire, so I don't want to spoil that later. So we're I'm gonna skip a few of the things I was gonna say there. Um, but what I do like is Shane did a great job in making this movie more just about Tony. You know, in this act, I one of my favorite things is he has that hidden gun in his sleeve when like she when he's coming up to him and he's just he blasts him with the not the gun, but the hidden the hidden charge, like the Iron Man charge. I don't know, whatever he had. It was like a sliding thing out of his hand. I I I'm not sure what you call such a thing, but yeah. Yeah. Um and one of my favorite scenes in this act is the van scene when he's hacking into the the van and like that guy opens up and this guy's like a a hardcore, like scary kind of attached. Yeah, stalker-ish, but he Tony handles it so well. He's like, all right. Yeah, I enjoy that a lot. It's a lot of laughs.

SPEAKER_04 2:52:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 2:53:00

Uh and and I like Alaric playing this almost bad guy, like you know, he's coming to be this, he's turning into the bad guy. I think he's doing all right. You know, uh you just you know he's not the main bad guy because the Mandarin is, right? Which we haven't even talked about that yet. No, well about what we like of that. But let's wait until we get there because once we start on that, we're gonna be on it for a while. So let's I mean, because we could talk about all the Mandarin stuff up until now, but I think we'll just talk about the Mandarin in general when we get to that moment. Becomes more than funny. Yeah, yeah, I get it. So that that's what worked for me for sure. Um I kind of already said what didn't work and wait and all that too. So why don't you go ahead and what worked for you and what didn't work for you, and and maybe if I feel like it, I'll see if I can help it along here.

SPEAKER_00 2:53:48

That's I that is uh yeah, I was gonna say the the manler twist is an act too. It is an act too. It is. I wanted to make it. So we can get right into it. But well, no, let me do what worked for me. Yeah, let's start on a positive note, then we'll and then a negative before we get to a standout. That way it's kind of like a we're kind of softening the blow.

SPEAKER_06 2:54:07

Yeah, no, I understand.

SPEAKER_00 2:54:08

All right, yeah, I'm with you. Um what worked for me is um I wrote down here reconstructing the crime scene, but that was an act one. What did work for me for this? I loved, like you said, I mimic a lot of what you said for what you loved about it. Taking Tony out of his element of all of his super expensive stuff that's around him, and getting it back down to the the uh grassroots of things. It's it's almost reminiscent without the sense of life or death for him of the cave thing, where he is he's not in that fight or flight mode, so to speak, although there is a little bit of that with his PTSD going on. Um but he's out of the element where he doesn't have the fancy stuff around him and he has to recharge his suit and figure out what to do, you know, things like that. And it's if anything, this him being uh out of his environment is a little therapeutic for him, I feel, because he's communicating with a kid that is the kid's learning about PTSD through him. And he does well with kids, and you can tell what how a little bit of how his intellect is a little bit that he could get along with them. He talks to him like a normal human being, not as down as a kid type thing, but yet he still has that human nature about him. I love I love all his scenes with the kid were really, really good. Yeah. Um and the action for this was really good too. I liked when the action happened and the woman shooting at him, and then I tell you, uh one of the I if you were a child watching this, some of that stuff would be a little scary. Well, they stuff they go intense when they blow up, when they get red and just Evil looking? Wow.

SPEAKER_05 2:56:01

Yeah, it looks good.

SPEAKER_00 2:56:02

It is very good and very well done.

SPEAKER_06 2:56:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 2:56:05

Or well, yeah, you're right.

SPEAKER_00 2:56:06

Yeah. To that degree. So when I'm watching this, I'm like, ooh, this is a new element for um Tony. And I liked it. I thought that worked really well for it. It kind of raised the stakes a little bit on what this thing is he's fighting, other than the Mandarin himself type thing. As he's he's fighting against this virus thing that they're infecting people with to make and I didn't realize it until I was um listening to the our reading about that. This is like a a new version that super soldier serum. People are trying to replicate that all the time. Yeah, yeah. I love the idea of extremis being something where it's more of a medical thing where someone who doesn't have a limb can grow it back. It's almost like what Dr. Connor does in Spider-Man, where he takes lizard DNA because they could grow back a limb and he becomes the lizard. You know, but this is just more of a brain thing that's not a DNA sequence, it's more filling in a gap that's in your brain, as Aldrich says in the movie. This is like a little like a slot that needs to be filled, and that's where we could fill it to make the brain re re um generate itself, basically. I like that concept, I think that's kind of cool. It's interesting. I also liked that this is very sporadic. If you put it into someone and it doesn't work out well, they just explode. Right. And then some people can actually take it and use it. So and it's not it's very it's it's sporadic because you can't tell who is gonna adapt to it, who's not gonna adapt to it. So um that's something that when we get into act three with the pepper thing later on is something I wanted to uh actually um congratulate them on, how they're able to handle that, to be honest. Even though I would have done it a little differently, I it was a swing, and they knew in the writing how it was gonna pay off, so I I really shouldn't give it to them too much. But anyways, um that stuff worked for me. Uh Tony kind of like uh acting like a spy, so so to speak, and then figuring figuring out what Bruce Wayne would have done is that oh, this is what happened here at this scene, and actually the scene's playing in the background right now of at the memorial, figuring out where was the bomb, who was the bomb, what these shadows mean, and it's just it's all coming together, and he's able to compare that with Happy Scene. That was really cool.

SPEAKER_05 2:58:35

Yeah, excellent. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:58:37

Now, what didn't work for me, and I think this is unless you have some you already said what didn't work for you. Yeah, yeah, mostly. Yes, yeah. So my biggest thing for this was the Mandarin twist. And I thought when I was gonna watch this as a retrospective, knowing what's gonna happen almost uh over a decade later, um almost a decade later, I should say, because Shang Chi came out in 2021 and this is 2013. Um I thought it would soften the blow a little bit and maybe not feel as bad as I felt at the time. Because I remember, man, this is one movie I remember going to the theaters and watching and walking out so disappointed. Once that twist was revealed, I completely forgot at that time the rest of the movie. I had no interest in seeing the third act of Iron Man 3 in the theaters. I sat there because I didn't know at that time, being so young that I was, you could just walk away from a movie in the middle of the movie. But now, if that had happened today and not knowing what was gonna come down the pike, I would have walked out. Because that put such a sour taste in my mouth, this specific twist that I didn't see Thor, The Dark World, the next movie that came out until it was over a month and a half in the theaters. Oh wow, because I thought, what the heck are they gonna do with the bad guy in this one? And then, surprise, surprise, I actually liked it, guys. So, uh, for Thor this, I was I was looking more forward to Iron Man 3 for the Mandarin in particular than I was for Iron Man. Because, like I've already said to you guys before, personally, my personal taste is Iron Man's not the top top of my list for the Avengers characters, but the Mandarin I had known from the comics, he is one of those characters that even characters like Storm from the X-Men have fought against the Mandarin, like he is, and I knew a lot about his lore and things like that. So I was looking forward to his actual 10 rings and um seeing that mythical superpower side and someone like Iron Man fighting someone like that, how would that work? And it's actually funny that uh I'm talking about this now because just recently in Marvel explored in the MCU tech and magic and what they would look like combined and fighting against each other, but it took them to fase six in order to start talking about that, where at this was the point I thought they were gonna, and I overexpected that. Gotcha. And so that's what really let me down. The whole the moment that the moment that it was this actor with two uh prostitutes or whatever whatever the politically correct term is for these ladies.

SPEAKER_06 3:01:35

Women of the night.

SPEAKER_00 3:01:36

Women of the night, yes. That I was like, I'm done. And when I watched this, I remembered those feelings, and that is what made it harder for me to re-watch this. Oh no, to be honest, it was so bad for me personally. So it's still there, so part of it is still there. It's it softened the blow because I know what's gonna happen. Let me read to you exactly what I wrote down because I wrote this down as I was watching it to remember. Oh, so it's wrong. Okay. So the Mandarin twist still hurts. At the time of the release, this is a scene that made me despise the movie. I was young and wasn't paying attention at all to the small details of the story and filming. I just wanted to see the Mandarin, and as I knew him fight Iron Man, I was more excited for that than I and I was drastically disappointed. Now, with this retrospective and seeing justice to the Mandarin and Shang Chi, this feels like visiting the grave of a high school bully for me. Meaning the feelings of what I experienced were still there, but even with the understanding of what comes later, I feel like it could have been done differently to avoid this mistake. I will be honest when it comes to this part, and I noticed it when I was researching the background of the movie and then seeing what we're gonna talk about later for the post-credit scene. I see the real-world political aspect of Disney saying you can't use the Mandarin because of his name. And they overcompensate it with extra Chinese promotion and having its own special scene and um some of these other things. I think it was a way for them not to alienate the Chinese market, which by the way, guys, Chinese market rarely lets in Hollywood movies, and when they do, it's probably five or six a year at most that ever go into the Chinese market. So they do it to themselves, to be honest. They said no to Shang Chi, and to be honest, they should have said yes because that didn't disrespect China whatsoever.

SPEAKER_06 3:03:41

But that's what you get when you have that kind of level of censorship out of your government, folks.

SPEAKER_00 3:03:46

Yeah, yeah. And and also it just I feel like that Disney has gotten proof now that you could like Spider-Man No Way Home, you could release a I know that's a Sony property.

SPEAKER_06 3:03:57

I'm just saying, guys, you can release Marvel just to say Sony, it's still Sony watched them make it, that's all it was.

SPEAKER_00 3:04:02

Anyway, yeah, yeah. Uh you can release a movie and not have it go into the Chinese market like No Way Home did, and still make over a billion dollars. That movie almost pushed two billion dollars No Way Home, and that was without Chinese money, so I'm just saying. Um I think that that's what happened. The real-world politicalness of that, you can't make the Mandarin and make him your bad guy because of the look it could give to a certain demographic. And I think that they were kind of put into a corner. They wanted to use the mandarin, but at the same time, they couldn't use the mandarin. The obvious answer for me would have been don't even use the mandarin at all then. Just save him for later. Or never. I would have rather had you never had him in this movie than to do into what you did. Okay, but I will admit it did make a great twist later on for the Shang-Chi movie that that wouldn't have been it could have been a little bit of the same way, but not hitting home for us the way it did for the Shang-Chi movie, which I appreciated. So that's my two cents on the Mandarin and why this is a hard man for me, guys.

SPEAKER_06 3:05:10

So I agree. So we are almost opposite on this subject. Yeah. Uh I'm gonna say right now, first of all, let's talk about while he does pretend to be the Mandarin. Yeah, it's awesome. I agree. If he was the Mandarin and it was they they didn't do the twist, it was great stuff, man. I love it. Boy, I love that when he's like, I'm gonna shoot this guy in 30 seconds, and he calls and he's still like, you know, of course he doesn't really shoot him, but like, you know, he does, you know, like he makes me think he does. Yeah, he's great. Uh Ben Kingsley, y'all. Woo! He does a great job in this. Yes. Um, I have to tell you, I think this twist of mandarin is actually brilliant. I think this is exactly what should have been done, and I think it's exactly what what they did. Uh I can feel I can feel Sammy turning into one of those heat guys right now.

SPEAKER_00 3:06:03

The extremists is circling through my veins.

SPEAKER_06 3:06:05

So here's why I say this, okay? I don't think politically at the time they didn't do it because of the Chinese market. I really don't. I think that they had an idea and they took a big swing on this idea. And the idea was we're gonna have the Mandarin, but we want to talk about like where the world is today and where it's going. And I actually will go on record saying as much as this movie fails for me later, it's funny because you thought this was the later part, right? It's not. Um as much as this movie fails for me at a certain point, uh, and I can't ignore that, um, which is funny because we were so opposite, we're probably still gonna land pretty close to the same, which is strange, y'all. Um what it does do brilliantly, though, is it it's ahead of its time and like what we're talking, like what we're dealing with today. I think it's a master class on misinformation and propaganda and fear being used as a tool to get to it to get what you really want done, which is what we see a lot of our governments, even some of our own sometimes doing today. You know, it might not be our the specific people, but there's people within our government doing it, you know, and we see other governments doing it. And I think this speaks to that. It's like the we'll use this person or this situation somewhere in another part of the world that's going on as the threat while we're doing something else to you, right? And that's and that's kind of something that we're more obviously happening in a in a post-COVID world, we feel that more so. You know, I mean no disrespect to anyone out there who lost someone during COVID. It was a hard time, it was a scary thing, it was a real thing, but you were also very lied to about it by a lot of different stuff. You know, and I'm not I'm not discrediting that it was real. That's not what I'm saying. What I am saying, though, is they they it was also very much, there's a lot of people that got rich off of that as well. That's a very true statement for lying to you. To me, that's what this movie's doing. It's he and then when he breaks that down, he literally breaks that down when he when he kind of gives like you know the the James Bond. This is what my whole plan was, you know. And he's he literally is it's like listen, I mean they're all gonna be worried about this when this is what's really going on. And like, and I think that that's I think using the Mandarin is brilliant. And why I say that is this simple fact that I think you you, even you, Sam, the heat, I can see it. You're turning red. Like I can see that you're gonna you're gonna blow up like this other guy. Like it's gonna happen. But the truth is, is Iron Man was not that big of a character. It was actually quite a surprise that they used him as their first movie. And they used him as their first movie for that reason. Because if it wasn't gonna work, we're not gonna ruin our flagship characters. We'll do one that's not well known because he wasn't, he wasn't well known, he wasn't well liked. A lot of Iron Man comics weren't being picked up until after we got to the Avengers movie. Therefore, in my opinion, if you're gonna take a big swing on a villain that is important to you as the comic book reader, but overall, a pretty minute villain that you could go without for a long time. Not that they can't fix it, like in hindsight, they'd do something different, but I can see why they did that now and took that chance to get you even even taking the chance to get you mad because where you got mad at it, I think they thought there's five other people that don't even know who the hell the Mandarin is, and it's not gonna matter. And I was one of them because I had no idea who the Mandarin was. I did not read an Iron Man comic book once in my life, even after the Avengers. I still hadn't picked up an Iron Man comic book. And I I remember actually having to ask you who the Mandarin was, and I was very surprised that you didn't like the movie, you know, for that reason, because there's other reasons I don't like it, but that's the one I was surprised. So, with that said, I think I outnumber you. I think there's more of me than you at this point. Well, obviously they're during that box office. Well, obviously, this was gonna make the money anyway because Avengers was awesome. Actually, you're right. This movie could have really sucked and they would they would have went anyways. I wouldn't I wouldn't say that. But I would say though, at this time in the Marvel history of the MCU and how I obviously Iron Man's gotten way more popular now because of the MCU. At this time, there was more of me that didn't know uh anything about the Mandarin than there was more of the comic book guys that did. And we were the ones that were buying tickets too in droves because of Avengers. You're right. I I that was a logical mistake that I I played there. So I don't want you to change your mind though, because you like that character and you you need to feel passionate about that character. And I want you to hold on to that because it's important. But I do want you to know your character was not important enough to not do that too, unfortunately. I think that's what happened. You had a character you really liked, but it's it's like, oh, but to the general public, the Mandarin doesn't mean shit.

SPEAKER_00 3:11:19

That's true. I agree. I'll concede to that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 3:11:22

And I think that's the problem.

SPEAKER_00 3:11:23

It's part of the ownership that we take on some of these characters too. And I know when we talk about X-Men, we're gonna do a lot of that personally between you and I, that we share everything exactly with these characters. It's because that we just love them so much, whether they're in the comic book iteration or the movie iteration, that seeing them done differently in any way or changing aspect of them.

SPEAKER_06 3:11:43

It's hard.

SPEAKER_00 3:11:43

It's like it's almost like you're we would rather you make a new character than just take a character that we like and twist it.

SPEAKER_06 3:11:51

Yeah, all I'm saying, that if I have to sit through let's see, one, two, three, four, five sequels of Jurassic Park that suck, that messed up all my characters with that, then you can make it through all your man three.

SPEAKER_00 3:12:10

I get it. You know what? I will give you props and um appreciate how you were able to take a relatively recent historical thing for us, and in this retrospective, point it back to this when it comes to fake news and the misinformation and who's telling you the truth versus not type thing. That is genius ahead of its time for that aspect.

SPEAKER_06 3:12:39

It just so happened to be at the expense of one of your favorite characters. Exactly. Yeah, and that's tough.

SPEAKER_00 3:12:44

That that that's tough. That is tough, but it is genius on the writings actually.

SPEAKER_06 3:12:49

Do you realize how many predator movies I watched where I felt that way every time? Yeah. Before we got to a good one again. I know how you feel.

SPEAKER_01 3:12:56

Yeah, no, I sacrifice someone else.

SPEAKER_06 3:12:58

Yeah. See now, obviously, in hindsight, I bet Marvel feels that way, though. I bet they're kind of, man, I guess we could wish we could have done it. Well, a Mandarin thing better, which I think is why they are doing what they're doing. Yeah. But at this time, in you know, we have with the retrospective, it's tough because we have to also remember what's going on at this time. And at this time, this character was nothing to nobody.

SPEAKER_00 3:13:18

That's true. But I I agree with you there. I think that when they announced the Shang-Chi movie and that they said the real Mandarin is gonna be there. I immediately in my head thought they recognized they made a mistake in the third one. That's right. However, it was creatively done for people who didn't know about the Mandarin versus the people who did. For the people who did know about the Mandarin, this was their way of giving back to the fans and saying we're gonna do justice to that one character.

SPEAKER_06 3:13:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:13:42

And they delivered.

SPEAKER_06 3:13:43

Because it was a mistake on purpose. Yes. It wasn't a, oh, we just messed this up. It was a we had a good idea.

SPEAKER_00 3:13:49

For me as a fan to know they weren't throwing the character away forever. Right. They had a purpose of bringing him back and actually enriched his story, in my opinion, compared to the comics, where it complimented the comics and also elevated him forever.

SPEAKER_06 3:14:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:14:02

I like that. So we'll get to that one when we get back.

SPEAKER_06 3:14:04

Dare I say, at this time, I still think they still had some doubt on how well this was going to keep working. I don't think they realized. I still I think what I'm trying to say is at this time I still think they thought the failure was eminent, and they just gotta be careful. So anything's at expense as long as it's good, right?

SPEAKER_03 3:14:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 3:14:22

And when I don't think they realized they were in the start of like they really would they could have gotten away with almost anything for a long time. They didn't have to worry, is what I'm saying. But they didn't know that till later. You know, they're not gonna know that till afterwards. Because from Avengers to Endgame is the golden age of everything of this. This could do no wrong. It was hit, hit, hit, hit, hit, hit, hit. And there's yeah, there's a couple that dipped a little, like, you know, like the next one that we're gonna talk about, but it didn't dip like you know, like re of recent ones, right? Yeah, like you know, I'm talking like the golden age of Marvel is is starting right now. You know, all the the once you hit guardians, it's just like a rocket ship. You know, it's the then they guardians made them realize, oh, we we can just let's just do whatever we want to do. Yep. You know what I mean? Like we can just do whatever hell we want to do. You know what I mean? But I think at this time they're still being careful, so they were they weren't afraid to just take the chances and see what was gonna happen, you know. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 3:15:19

Yeah, I agree.

SPEAKER_06 3:15:20

It's after this that's the problem. This twist happens, and all of a sudden this movie goes stupid. Like this movie's a very smart, fun mystery with great action, with an awesome, like this awesome, unique meta perspective of misinformation and how to lead people a different way. And then the rest of this movie is dumb. It's like we don't need to think no more, so we're just gonna do stupid shit that make no sense and make it look good. And there's good things in there to see, yeah, but there's no more substance. Once the mystery's over, this movie's over. And I'm like, what happened? That's true. So I will let's I'll I'll read act three and let's get into it. Oh, yeah, we gotta get you're right.

SPEAKER_00 3:16:09

Just a couple of things. We'll touch on them briefly, folks. Yeah, sorry right to act three. But did the pacing hold up for you in act two? Yes, yeah, it did for me too. I did not lose my and even though there are times where it was lagging a little bit, it still I kept my interest. Um, best character moment for you in act two.

SPEAKER_06 3:16:26

Uh act two best character moment. I like when the reveal happens. I like seeing Ben Kingsley have fun with that part. I mean, I know I know it's if if you take out what it was, just forget it for a second. Him going in and out, even when like Tony's like, you know, when he's talking to him and you see him going in and out of the character for fun, that's it's it's awesome. And it just shows how good of an actor Ben Kingsley is. I I like I do it, I it sells, they sell that well. That's that moment. I like that. So I'm gonna give that to them.

SPEAKER_00 3:16:59

When he's like, Who is this guy again?

SPEAKER_06 3:17:01

Well, yeah, I'm gonna I'm gonna blow his head off.

SPEAKER_00 3:17:03

Yeah, like it's like, yeah. Then he starts the the the soccer game or something.

SPEAKER_02 3:17:08

He's like, dude.

SPEAKER_06 3:17:11

Yeah, I love when Tony's like interrogating him and he falls asleep. Well, just not off.

SPEAKER_02 3:17:16

That was fun.

SPEAKER_06 3:17:18

Like, it's like the gun's so opposite of what we've been seeing, like the absolute opposite of it. It's amazing what we're getting out of him, right? So, like, I I just I have to give that to him. Like, whether you like the twist or not, it was done very well.

SPEAKER_00 3:17:32

It was done very well. It just, you know, for me, what I was able to appreciate a little more, even though I still didn't like the twist, as I've thoroughly already explained to you guys. Um I now that I know what was happening, I was able to just watch him knowing he's Trevor Slattery, an actor type thing. And yeah, that made me laugh at those scenes and seeing what he was doing and make me think, okay, now let me examine this from his perspective. Yeah. He's an actor who's being

SPEAKER_06 3:18:00

Paid to portray this character paid held hostage, you kind of can't tell. Yes, a little bit of both, right?

SPEAKER_00 3:18:06

Like they're giving him anything he wants, but at the same time, he has to stay.

SPEAKER_06 3:18:10

I don't think they'd let him leave either.

SPEAKER_00 3:18:11

Yeah, no, no. You know what I mean? Like, but he thinks this literally is all a movie. He's like, no one actually died. Right. And that is so interesting to me. Yeah, it's brilliant. Be like, that is brilliant. That is brilliant. I'll be I'll admit that.

SPEAKER_02 3:18:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:18:26

Anyways. Um all right. So for me, the best character moment honestly was Iron Man personal story throughout the the whole uh second act. Um, it's just him and I like the the Batman meets Iron Man approach type thing. Yeah. I think that the it's genius to tie in the PTSD thing and always figuring out a way to keep his mind busy by solving mystery. I agree. I think that was really cool to mesh those together.

SPEAKER_06 3:18:54

Couldn't agree more.

SPEAKER_00 3:18:55

All right, so what's your score? Eight out of ten. All right. So I'm gonna kind of stay a little consistent with my feelings on this, guys.

SPEAKER_02 3:19:06

Um prior to yes, that's all I asked.

SPEAKER_06 3:19:10

Yeah, whether we argue about it or not. Like I don't want to change your mind. I just wanted to give you another perspective.

SPEAKER_00 3:19:15

And I'm glad you didn't. I appreciate that. So the prior to knowing what they were gonna do with Shang-Chi, I would have given this a three out of ten.

SPEAKER_02 3:19:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:19:24

But knowing what I know now of it and being able to understand it more, even though it still does sting to a degree, I'm giving it a five out of ten. So it's fair. Okay. Um, act three, why don't you read it? All right.

SPEAKER_06 3:19:42

So I'm just gonna say crap. No, I'm um, hold on. Oh guys, I'm sorry. It's you we're gonna have a great whoe-ey. This act is a tough one. Uh so Tony launches a coordinated assault on Killian's oil rig base with multiple remote-controlled Iron Man suits. He works alongside James Rhodes to rescue the president and Pepper in the final battle. Tony confronts Killian directly and Pepper, now enhanced by Xtremis. Is that how you say it? Yep, delivers the killing blow. Afterward, Tony destroys all of his Iron Man suits in a symbolic gesture, choosing to pr to prioritize his life and relationship with Pepper over the armor.

SPEAKER_04 3:20:29

Okay. Did the ending land for you? No. Screw this ending. Can go right to hell. Please allow me.

SPEAKER_06 3:20:40

What happened here? So let's go. I'm gonna say this. I'm gonna say what I like first because it's not a lot.

SPEAKER_04 3:20:48

Okay.

SPEAKER_06 3:20:50

Rhodes is awesome in this final part. I they finally give Don Cheadle a reason to be where he is. What an ass kicker, man. He's so good. He's fun, he's great, he's doing awesome. Without the suit, he's kicking a lot of butt. I love Rhodes. All the stuff he did. Fantastic. I won't take any of it back. And I'm gonna say this again all the action scenes are great, it looks good, the choreography's great. Love it. Story though, this is a bag of dog shit. It just it just goes dumb. It's just now we know who the Mandarin is, we know what's going on, and where do I begin, man? So this Iron Legion that he has, okay? Where were these things the entire time? They're just sitting there waiting. At what point does it not occur to him when his house is being missiled by everything? That he doesn't be like, well, I'm just gonna, oh jeez, why am I worried about one suit to save my life? I'm about to drown. Like, just let the Iron Legion out to do what they're gonna do, then like do the party protocol right then and there. Like, this is where this movie forgets about how smart the beginning is and ruins it for the rest of it. Because also, you literally come to kill Tony Stark, but your ultimate goal was to recruit him, anyways. That doesn't make any sense. Yeah, that is dumb. Like, who thought no one saw that in the script? No one's reading this thing and goes, wait a minute, you do realize that we attacked his home trying to kill him. Because there's no argument. You can't, there is zero argument you can give that no, they weren't gonna really kill him. No, they were killing him in that moment. Oh, yes, like that was what was happening. And then later on, hey, we need you to the point where he literally murders the girl. Like, you know what, this is how bad I need you. I'll kill her just to prove to you that I need you this bad. Because now look, your girlfriend's got this, and if you don't help me, she's not gonna make it anyway. Why did you try to kill him then in the first place? What's the where's the this? It's all of a sudden they're just like, we're just gonna we're just gonna forget all the smart. I agree. And let's just do all this bull crap. You know, then this thing with Air Force One, get the get out of here. The logic goes out the window. All of a sudden the physics of it goes Iron Man is based on physics, like the idea that he's as smart as he is and all the stuff that he can do. How is he telling these people in the air to grab each other's hands? People, I've never been skydiving before, ever in my life. Probably never will. Maybe if I'll maybe I'll do it once someday. I don't know. I'm not in a hurry to do it. I'm just saying. Someone pays for it, let's go. I'll do it with Tom Cruise. There you go. Only Tom Cruise. If you don't do it with me, then I'm not doing it. So, anyways, but even looking at the behind the scenes or having any kind of idea of knowing what that is, you're not talking to each other out there when you're flying in the air like that. Like you just, he's just okay, people, come on. And they're all like, these people are freaking out, man. They're falling out of the plane.

SPEAKER_00 3:24:05

They're not comprehending anything.

SPEAKER_06 3:24:06

They are not realizing that they're grabbing each other and let's oh, look, we're making a change. Look what's happening. That's I don't care who the hell you are. Half these people are dying from a heart attack, anyways. I don't think you people understand what it probably is like to fall out of an exploding plane. I don't think it's as fun and casual as this movie makes it be.

SPEAKER_01 3:24:25

They don't prep them for that.

SPEAKER_06 3:24:27

All this stuff makes sense and is cool until now. Like now we're gonna look stupid. Like, what's going on here? Like, I just don't like this thing. I don't like that he calls the Iron Legion and oh, of course it's now when it should have been three different times in the movie. You know, and giving Pepper the powers and do I think was a complete mistake. I think that he should have made him think that he did, or he should have just had him had her hostage. The fact that he did it and gave, I mean, and no no offense to Gwyneth. I'm not saying you shouldn't have had your moment to shine, but I don't I think it's out of place for her character. And it felt out of place for her character to be what she did at the end. And then by the way, oh you know what, I'll just figure this out and we'll reverse it, and you'll be fine anyway. Like, what are the stakes here for real? What's going on? What are we watching? What is this bullshit, Sam? Like it just bothers the hell out of me that they completely just decided to, okay, we're gonna forget about everything that happened before this awesome twist, or before all the smart fun finding this mystery out, getting to where we're gonna get. Now it's just gonna be a stupid little action romp that makes no sense and just doesn't have any. I have a way better version. It doesn't eat it still doesn't quite fix all the stuff, but I have a better way of even having this work better, in my opinion. I don't know. I'm just I just I'm not a fan of how this turned out, to be honest with you. I I think the plain sequence should have been thought out more so. I think they should have thought of a a better idea of him saving their lives. I don't have a problem with that sequence in general, I just have a problem with it, just was so unbelievable. And and okay, yeah, guys, it's a superhero movie. We got things like the Hulk and all that, but you got it's you gotta stay the verisimilitude, is what you call it. You have to stay believable in your own rules that you put in your movie. And I'm sorry, he's it's just it just felt like a shoehorned. What if they're all falling? What if he comes up with this cool idea and does that? Yeah, let's do that. Throw all the money at it because it'll look cool because it's a big set piece, forgetting that it's dumb and it just doesn't look, it doesn't sound like it works. Because up until then, everything sounded good, like all the stuff you're doing was working, and then this isn't anymore. It's just all of a sudden it's not working anymore. And it goes right in all to the the villain giving the stupid speeches. Oh my god, shut the hell up! Like he just it's like, no, this is where it gets all really weird to me. I'll I'll tell you what I would have done with the movie, but I'm gonna let Sammy take it over for a second so I can let my blood pressure come back because I was ready to defend this movie to the death until after this happened, and I'm just like, shit, we're gonna not like this movie for two opposite reasons.

SPEAKER_00 3:27:09

I was just thinking the same thing. Our scores are for the movie are probably gonna be very similar, just two different reasons. Yep. Okay, did the lending end for me? No, the ending did not land for me myself. Um the main thing that I wrote down here. I do agree with everything that you said about the the plain scene. I thought that was cheesy, I thought that was illogical. I didn't I when watching this thinking, how the this felt like was cringe. Yeah, cringy. Best way to say it. Yeah, it felt like one of those, let's throw this into an old 90s comic book movie because why not? It looks fun. Yep. And they just had a bigger budget for it. Yep. So I completely agree with you there. I what I didn't like about the ending personally, I I because I they said that there was a um in what you read there Tony destroys all of his Iron Man suits in a symbolic gesture, choosing to prioritise his life and relationship with Pepper over the armor. That's stupid. Why can't you have both? You're Tony frickin' Stark. I don't like it because Oh my god. I just I didn't even think about that. You just oh as I'm watching it, they're making it look like this magnificent fireworks going off type thing. Like this a beautiful moment. Pepper's all ah, and Tony's like, hmm, this feels right. And I'm thinking this is wrong. All of a sudden he's over his PTSD and stuff. Why? Like, like where that word is if this did if what this should have proven to you, Tony Stark, is that there's a bigger world that's still gonna try to kill you.

SPEAKER_06 3:28:54

This is why you make Ultron.

SPEAKER_00 3:28:55

Yes, and you destroyed the thing you've been tinkering with the whole time, making all these really cool different suits to have this really cool epic battle at the end for that point of showing them off because you could do it, and then just blow them all up. I hated that.

SPEAKER_06 3:29:11

Well, here's a message for everybody out there, real quick, before you continue. Sorry to interrupt, but I'm fired up. Here's a message for I'm not a doctor, but I'll tell you right now, you don't cure PTSD with more trauma. That's all I'm saying. Where he's all of a sudden, okay, I'm gonna get rid of all these suits, I'm cool with it. You know, after watching you burn to death for a minute. Oh, you're like, what are you talking about? You don't cure this stuff with that that doesn't go away.

SPEAKER_00 3:29:35

That was just oh my god. That was so traumatic. Watching him saying, I will catch you, and then literally not, and you see her fall into this. What a great opportunity for an awesome moment that they just shit on. I was like, honestly, I thought that should have been the end for her. It should have been the end for her, and not because the uh I don't know, they use the extremists because she's still alive and all that stuff, and now she's super peppered. But super pepper?

SPEAKER_02 3:30:05

Yeah, yeah, super peppered, like whoo!

SPEAKER_00 3:30:10

I was just like oh, so sad.

SPEAKER_06 3:30:15

So watching a car accident.

SPEAKER_00 3:30:16

It was yeah, it was more sad that she survived than it was that he watched her die. It was just so so sad, anyways. Um, yeah, that that landing did not end for me. I can appreciate personally a big set piece of just nothing but action and have fun with it. And I only took that for the suits and what they did. I thought that was kind of cool. I was for it for all this. I agree with you that it probably should have happened earlier in the movie, him saying, Oh, I had this iron legion in my back pocket. Why is my home?

SPEAKER_06 3:30:51

Oh, you mean when he's about to drown? Yeah, but like it's a I'm about to die. What other thing? They're missing my home, isn't what these are here for. Like, I just don't understand.

SPEAKER_00 3:31:06

It's like he's thinking in the back of his brain, this isn't.

SPEAKER_06 3:31:08

Do you forget about them? And he's like, Oh, wait a minute. This whole time, yeah, I'll just call the army of things I have. They'll be here in 10 minutes.

SPEAKER_00 3:31:15

Yeah, yeah, like a huge army of suits.

SPEAKER_06 3:31:18

It takes it takes a whole charging his suit and waiting out there mean nothing. He could have just called another one.

SPEAKER_00 3:31:26

So stupid. See, I would forgive the part where he's in the town, the small town, and he couldn't call it. It's somewhat forgivable. Because he couldn't connect with Jarvis until it was so much percentageful. And by that point, he's being rescued, he's driving away, he's with Roadie on the the um boat. Yeah, I'll forgive that part.

SPEAKER_06 3:31:44

But still, if uh you had that in your back pocket, you're not waiting to the last second. Yeah. But you know, it's like you're not gonna you're not gonna rely on the suits flying from Tennessee to get on your arms when you're tied up to a bed. Yeah, you're just gonna call the rest of them because why not? Or why not call the rest of them when there's people falling out of Air Force One? Yeah. Like what the hell? Maybe that'd be the best time to have the Legion show up. What are we gonna do? There's like 10, there's 20 people in here. Don't worry. When they all come out, it's like that'd have been way better. That would have been the time. That'd have been way better.

SPEAKER_00 3:32:15

Yeah, it's like I mean them all get into Iron Man suits and then pop them off.

SPEAKER_06 3:32:19

That'd have been sick.

SPEAKER_00 3:32:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 3:32:20

But then we wouldn't have got this spectacular bullshit at the end of bullshit.

SPEAKER_00 3:32:25

Like so I it uh long story short, the ending did not land for me. There were a couple of big issues there, and yeah, the the super pepper thing definitely wasn't an issue for me myself. Um I I wrote on here it isn't the worst thing that they did, but it it reminded me when I was watching it of Spider-Man 2, the same Raimi trilogy, when Doc Ock is fighting Peter Parker or Spider-Man there, and Mary Jane decides in one brief moment to be fearless and grab something to hit him in the head, and he he sees it coming and he knocks her away and be like, Oh, there's your uh um heroism, heroism, whatever the female word of um hero is. That's that's her moment. Heroine, heroine, yeah, there it is. But this time they just amplified it for Pepper, throwing a good punch. I will say that she did throw a good punch, but and I loved her line where she said that was really violent. Like the virus has taken over and it's made her do all the super crazy cool stuff, whatever. Yeah, where'd she learn it? Oh yeah, that was that's that's impressive how she learned to jump, do that, all of a sudden to the ground. Then she's like, I didn't know I could do that type of thing.

SPEAKER_06 3:33:41

Yeah, was this the matrix? What are you talking about, lady?

SPEAKER_00 3:33:44

Uh I did put it's a miracle she didn't explode because this film proves you have a 50-50 chance. Yeah, and part of me was waiting, even in the retrospective, waiting for a moment where she got too hot to to blow up.

SPEAKER_04 3:33:59

But anyways, um, was the climax earned for me? I wrote down here for the story it was earned, I just don't like the story.

SPEAKER_00 3:34:14

But honestly speaking, after talking this through, I don't think the climax was there for me. No, no. I know you're trying, you're doing real good. I really was trying to.

SPEAKER_06 3:34:28

You're trying to give it itself.

SPEAKER_00 3:34:29

I was trying to separate the climax from the ending, but it sucks. Ending and the climax are the same thing.

SPEAKER_06 3:34:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:34:36

There's no other climax in here except for how the ending land. And uh they did not land it well. So no, the climax wasn't earned for this.

SPEAKER_06 3:34:44

Yeah, it I have trouble not being passionate about it.

SPEAKER_00 3:34:48

You know why I didn't land the the climax itself wasn't um wasn't earned for me was exactly what you said earlier. PTSD is now cleared. Yeah. It's it's cured, guys. All you have to do go through something worse. It yeah, and then destroy one of the best things you ever invented, an Iron Legion.

SPEAKER_06 3:35:08

Yeah, I understand the letting go of the things that make you feel safe helps in curing PTSD, but that doesn't mean you go out and you go through something worse to get there. But you know what I mean? Like that that is, I can see that being a step of your first of all, there's no cure to PTSD, by the way. It's just something you're gonna live with the rest of your life, uh dealing with those things. It's how you deal with it. And him letting go of the suits is technically something they would want to see you that is a healthy thing for him to do, but not after what he just got going through again. Like this is he just went through more life or death. You know, it's no, no, this is you need just more therapy, dude, for a while.

SPEAKER_00 3:35:45

Well, plus the character inconsistencies of future iterations of him after this movie. Yeah, it's like this never happens. This movie makes it end. No, this is this is this is what I'm thinking at. This movie ends with making it sound like his PTSD is cured, but then we see in Age of Ultron, it's not cured. He's seeing what's gonna happen, he's being plagued by it all over. That's why he builds Ultron. That's why in Civil War he's for the government being part of it because we need to be reined in because there's something else out there, and if we don't get our crap together, maybe this is the way to do it. That's why in Infinity War he does the things that he does there, and he's finally gets confronted with the thing that's been plaguing him since the first Avengers movie. This is where the character inconsistency happens, and they're in this movie.

SPEAKER_06 3:36:28

Yep, they messed it up hard.

SPEAKER_00 3:36:30

It's like they tried to complete his arc in Iron Man 3, forgetting that he's not part of a bigger universe of Avengers 2, Avengers 3, and 4, and all the stuff that's happening in between.

SPEAKER_06 3:36:40

Yeah, and that's why you don't see a lot of pepper in in Age of Ultron. Because they don't know what to do with the characters anymore. They want us to forget that he he retired, basically. It just we start right out with Age of Ultron with them in battle, and he's got a suit. Like, wait a minute, thought he was done.

SPEAKER_00 3:36:56

And and not just a suit, he has an Iron Legion of Ultron suits. That's right. Be like, What? And he has a Hulkbuster suit in that one. Be like, didn't you just destroy everything? Mm-hmm. Which by the way, it took him a year to make all that stuff, which was kind of a little that's the part why I was a little like, hmm? But anyways, uh I can I can jump over those.

SPEAKER_06 3:37:20

Because it's Tony Stark, who knows? You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 3:37:22

When he's tinkering every night, he's probably making an Iron Man.

SPEAKER_06 3:37:24

He's sleeping like two hours a day. Yeah, shit. Yeah, he probably has it right down to his science, you know what I mean? Like, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:37:30

So what's your score for act three?

SPEAKER_04 3:37:33

And I changed mine because of the climax part. It's okay.

SPEAKER_06 3:37:43

Do I have to score? Um uh yeah. Uh because there's a handful of things I like, and because later when we do our questionnaire, I do see a way that you could have at least improved it but wouldn't have made it a perfect movie. I'm gonna give it a two out of ten. It's garbage.

SPEAKER_04 3:38:02

Okay.

SPEAKER_06 3:38:03

It's when you go that deviate that far from when you can go as far as you start negating the stuff that was good in the movie, you're gonna get me on your ass, man. Like, no way. It's one thing to not stay as creative and get a little slow and dumb, but it's another to take stuff away from what you've already done an hour ago that bothers me.

SPEAKER_04 3:38:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 3:38:25

That that's somebody not paying attention to what they're making.

SPEAKER_00 3:38:28

Mm-hmm. I agree. I gave it a five out of ten. I was gonna give it a seven until that it hit me. Was the climax really earned? No, it wasn't earned. And so, yeah. It's very generous. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 3:38:44

Sorry. I like how we are like the opposites on things. It's so strange. You never know where it's gonna go, guys.

SPEAKER_00 3:38:52

Exactly. This is so fun. All right, oh, here it is. Post-credit scenes. Fine, we're getting to the end, guys, before we do our deep dives. So I will read to you the mid and alternate alternative mid-credit scene because this movie um had different versions depending on where you watched it. Oh, I forgot about that. Yeah, I remembered that when I was doing my notes, and I thought I have to make sure this is included because that's what it leads back to my theory of why they nerfed the Mandarin the way they did. Oh, okay, yeah. And I bet you if I did a quick Google search, um, ladies and gentlemen, please comment below if this is accurate or not. I bet you this is one reason why they were like placating to the Chinese market, in my opinion. But they already promised the world the Mandarin, and this is what they get. Anyways. Um, mid-credit scene that everyone in the world except for China saw. At a clinic, Tony recounts the entire story to Bruce Banner, who is half asleep and uninterested, revealing he has been his therapist. Unquote during the events. Banner admits he fell asleep because he's quote not that kind of doctor, unquote. Um and then the alternative mid-credit scene, the only China got to see, guys. The Chinese release of Iron Man 3 contained an alternate extended cut featuring roughly four minutes of extra footage, exclusive to mainland China, which was heavily focused on Dr. Wu, played by Wang Jiyu and his assistant Fan Bing Ming. Uh differences in the Chinese version, the alternate scene. These scenes showed Dr. Wu preparing to operate on Tony Stark and discussing the surgery with his assistant, Fan Bing Ming. The scenes were widely criticized for featuring blatant product placement, including Dr. Wu drinking a local milk drink, and additional shots of Chinese electronic brands like TCL. A scene features Dr. Wu talking on the phone in his Beijing office, uh, with a television in the background showing school children cheering for Iron Man. Um while no international while international versions feature Dr. Bruce Banner scene, the Chinese theatrical version ended without that post-credit uh stinger. Uh ending instead with the Chinese music and the DMG Entertainment logo. These extra scenes were designed to bolster the film's appeal in China, which co-financed the film through DMG Entertainment. It's all making sense, folks. So um this is the first post-credit, miscredit scene that I was, I think, a little hard on for the scoring, but we'll get to the reason why. What are your thoughts on this whole thing? Yeah, they both suck.

SPEAKER_02 3:41:43

Um honestly, yes.

SPEAKER_06 3:41:45

So uh let me let me let me let me calm it down a little bit. They don't suck, uh, but the one definitely does give you a lot of merit to your Chinese situation. I'm gonna speak on that one first. I like that they get rid of Tony's Arc React. I know it's a very controversial thing. I'm actually all for this part of it. That isn't a problem to me at all. I'm actually surprised they haven't done it earlier. Um, but that's fine uh to me. Um and and I think the one with uh Bruce Banner, I think it's funny. But these are the first time other than in Avengers. This is the first time we get two post-credit scenes in one of those standalone movies, they really don't mean shit going forward. And to me, that's that's kind of a wasted opportunity. So I'm it's hard to rate it.

SPEAKER_00 3:42:33

Yeah, you know, I actually was a little more generous on the rating to be honest. Yeah. For it, to be honest. The the the purpose mainly was to show that Tony doesn't need the arc reactor to live anymore.

SPEAKER_04 3:42:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:42:44

Um, how important is the MCU? I wrote not very, it's a cool post, personal post-credit scene, but I I actually prefer the Chinese one over the Bruce Cameo because that at least had something with the story for Iron Man as opposed to just reconfirming that Mark Ruffles gonna say the Hulk, basically. That was the only thing that people got out of it is that oh, he's gonna stay now. Yeah, you know, so I get that. What was your hype level for this? It's a zero. There's nothing to look forward to. Yeah, yeah. I initially wrote 50% folks, but what am I looking forward to? It really is a zero.

SPEAKER_06 3:43:18

The one's funny, and the other one would be more uh like you know, uh more dramatically cool. But it when it comes down to like it doesn't make you go, oh, what's next? It's like okay, hey, what the hell? Yeah, right, cool.

SPEAKER_01 3:43:31

So I have a score of 10. Yeah, it's like a two.

SPEAKER_00 3:43:33

Yeah, I agree. Yeah, I'm just gonna I agree with that too. All right, guys, we're gonna get into our deep dives now. We're nearing the end of the podcast. Thank you for sticking with us. And now we're gonna get into some nitty-gritties on certain aspects of the movie besides the overall film. All right, so casting performances. Who is your best performance?

SPEAKER_06 3:43:56

Yeah, uh uh easy. Uh Robert Downey Jr. in this one.

SPEAKER_00 3:43:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 3:44:00

He it's one of some of the best stuff he's done as Iron Man, which is I hate. It sucks that it is, though, guys. Like uh you know, let me take that back. It's not some of the best stuff he's done as Iron Man, I'm sorry, but it's it's so far in the MCU, it's some of the best he's done so far. Let's be clear. Because the best he's done is in Civil War. But let's take it.

SPEAKER_00 3:44:20

Yes, I agree, actually. I very much agree. Most surprise uh mine's the same, by the way. Most surprising performance for you. Uh Ben Kingsley.

SPEAKER_06 3:44:29

Because uh when they do that switch and he goes, I'm just I was like, it just boom. I'm like, yes, this is why this guy's who he is. Yep. The switch and all that scene, the whole scene is great. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:44:39

I put uh Tyson because he is the kid who plays the kid Harley. Yep. Good kid, yep. I thought that wasn't annoying. Exactly. That's the problem with child actors, yep. Um, to be honest, is that some of them can be very annoying. And he wasn't annoying, and uh, he's still acting today, which proves that he has acting chops that continue on after this. He wasn't a one or done type thing because not all child actors even grow into becoming actual actors later on, you know, like adult actors, I should say. Weakest performance for you.

SPEAKER_06 3:45:08

Uh Guy Pierce. You know, it it it uh it sickens me to say because um I've seen other movies of his and I would always recommend people to watch something of his, but when I watch this, I'm like, oh poor dude. Like you know, he maybe just needed the money. I don't know what's going on. I'm not saying he did a bad job, it was written awful for him. Yeah. Um he's a great actor. There's moments in it, he is good. Like I loved him in the beginning of it, and I do like his suave kind of the start of what he is, but then you realize this isn't gonna go anywhere. And it's okay, it's all it's gonna be. And at the end, it just wasn't believable with all the bullshit that he was doing. And you know, when you when you're mad and you're yelling, but you're all CGI and red, you take the acting out of it, you know. And yeah, so yeah, the guy appears for sure. I mean, Gwenet's was uh I think my next choice. Um, but it's only because I don't like what they did with her, so I had to remember that. Yeah. So I'm okay. She didn't do bad with what she had, so I I wasn't gonna give it to her, so I had to give it to the guy.

SPEAKER_00 3:46:08

I'm in complete agreement with both of these. Said I originally, when I was writing my thing up, I wrote Don Cheeto only because I forgot about his scene in the last the last act. He was really good at just roadie, and it was refreshing to see. So I had to cross them off because he wasn't the weakest performance. But uh Guy Pierce and Gwyneth Paucho were my two, and if I would look label them exactly how you label them, Guy first, and then Gweniff only because we just didn't like what they did with her, but her acting for it was not the problem. Yeah. All right, casting wins or misses for you.

SPEAKER_06 3:46:40

So I'm I'm this is where I'm gonna give uh uh Don Cheadle his flowers um because this this is where okay, now your roads. Like I believed it in Iron Man 2, but now this is there's no going back. Like we can't recast Rhodes now. It can't happen. He's gotta stay because I loved him in this. And he almost was my surprising performance, but but I had to give that to Ben Kingsley. Um, but yeah, no, I and I I I would say Ben Kingsley's the next one there. I think he's uh a great cast, but I really have to say that uh Rhodes would this have solidified him as him. I'm sorry, yeah, um Don Cheadle. Sorry, we can't forget his name. Sorry, Don. I I I it solidifies that and it and it really does a good job doing that.

SPEAKER_00 3:47:28

Yeah. My casting wins was Ben Kingsley. Yeah, yeah. The moments where he was portraying the Mandarin was it exceeded my expectations of what they could have done with the Mandarin. If it wasn't for the stinger at the end, that's just a personal thing for me. But his acting in it, very good, and especially even the retrospective, like you what you mentioned earlier for the most surprising performance. He did great being able to go in and out of different characters. Yeah, it's just as much to play an actor and also play a terrorist. Very good to do, like very, very cool and funny, just a natural type funny. Yeah, he is a very funny on my and uh honestly, he gets better when you get to the Wonderman show. I loved him in the Wonderman show, anyways. Um, missed opportunities, wasted potential for either the cast characters or story.

SPEAKER_06 3:48:18

See, this that's I I uh it's so complicated. Yeah, you know, I I uh I mean I feel like Should I save what I would have done writing this for the hot takes or later, or should I put it under this here and say it here? Well, you would have done it for the writing, but like what I what I would change about this movie to make it better.

SPEAKER_00 3:48:38

Let's save that to the very end. Okay, because we have that alternate version, what you would do differently after our score. That's right. Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 3:48:45

Yeah, so I've got to tell you, wasted missed opportunity is the whole last act of this movie.

SPEAKER_02 3:48:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 3:48:51

You know, the uh uh if I had to pick one thing out of all of that, whoo! All the garbage. Let me sort through it. Hold on, hold on. Dog shit, dog shit, dog shit, dog shit, dog shit, dog shit. Oh, okay. I'd say the Iron Legion could have been utilized differently and better. Okay. If I had to pick something.

SPEAKER_00 3:49:13

There you go. Everyone knows what mine is. I really didn't have to say it out loud. Yep. All right. Here's some good stuff direction and production.

SPEAKER_06 3:49:22

So the director's great. He knows what he's doing. I I like, I think the thing about Shane Black, I'm gonna say it right now. His movies are either awesome or they suck. I've never seen a Shane Black movie where I'm like, huh, that was okay. I've always I've seen Shane Black movies that I put on some of the best movies ever made. Lethal Weapon, Predator, you know what I mean? Oh no, that was McTiernan. I'm sorry. Shane Black, Lethal Weapon, Kiss Kiss Bang Bang, the nice guys. These movies are awesome and he's great in them. But when he does a bad movie, this Predators, or not Predators, the Predator, I'm sorry. He and there's a couple other movies I'm not gonna get into. God-awful, just garbage, trash dumps. When he decides to fly it into the building, he flies it straight into the building. And it's I don't understand that. I don't I've never seen a director do this for me. And I mean all respect to you, guy, but like or Shane, but it's like you either just give us a nothing but a dumpster fire, or it's a beautiful house. And I just don't know what why there's no middle ground. But I will say you when you know what you're doing, that's why I'll give you your flowers for it. Yeah, it's great. You know, and then same with the cinematography. I think this this movie's got some of the best that we've seen in the MCU, cinematography-wise, because it looks good, because the action, I'll go right to that, is fantastic. The CGI looks good, and we're continuing this. Hey, we can make good music for these movies, guys. So the music is actually plays real well. The choice of songs in the movie was perfect, the choice of the instrumental music in the background was good. I think they hit I I think the movie was made well. I don't think that's any of the problem, right? So, I mean, how do you feel about it?

SPEAKER_00 3:51:11

Would you agree with my honest opinion? I wrote on here. This is one of the best made Marvel films thus far. Shame I had a crappy thory. 100%.

SPEAKER_06 3:51:19

Yeah, it's it's one of the better, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 3:51:22

Yep.

SPEAKER_06 3:51:22

100%. I wish some of this action was in Avengers. Like just style-wise.

SPEAKER_04 3:51:29

Yeah, but I agree, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 3:51:30

But not that not that it takes away from Avengers. Avengers is great. But could you imagine if that was a little, you know, more that'd be kind of cool.

SPEAKER_00 3:51:38

All right. So hot takes. Um, I wrote down two from you guys, and I you go first. Uh I've been deciding, should I say both of them? Should I just say one of them? And one of them I kind of feel bad after I wrote it, and I thought, uh, I don't know exactly how this feels like. Ike would know how this feels like more than me. If you read them, read them already. Um, let's see. So I'll just read them out loud, and you guys tell me in the comments below, am I wrong? Am I not wrong? And feel free to chastise me if you think I am. So the first hot take I'll give is Iron Man 3 shows the potential of what could have been the best Tony Stark story, only to be treated like the undeserving spoiled stepchild. When I got stuff right, it blew me away. When I got stuff wrong, it was comparable to passing a kidney stone. I can't speak to personal experience for that. Ike can though, unfortunately, he has undergone that horrendous pain. But this is the closest I could feel for right now. I'll tell you when I have a kidney stone if this was comparable. Anyways, uh my second hot take was Incredible Hulk movie. May have been an unintentional poor quality of a film, but Iron Man 3 is a tall disappointment for not fulfilling promises and repeating tropes of the past.

SPEAKER_04 3:53:04

Yeah. Those are my two hot takes on this movie.

SPEAKER_06 3:53:11

So it's funny because it's like your mind melded with me. The hot take I just I remembered were typing up in my notes, and my hot take was the Incredible Hulk is a better movie than this movie.

SPEAKER_00 3:53:23

Wow. See, I when I got done with my review form, guys, I had to re-watch the Incredible Hulk episode that Ike and I did to see why I did my scores and really nitpick it because I kept thinking there's no way I gave this a lower score than Incredible Hulk. But they're about the same.

SPEAKER_06 3:53:42

At least the Incredible Hulk doesn't backtrack on itself and ruin itself. You know what I'm saying? I get that. Like there's things that happen in Incredible Hulk that we don't like and it ends where it began, so the movie kind of didn't even happen. Yeah. But like nothing in it though contradicts what comes before in it as it's going. This movie does a great job of being awesome and then crapping all over itself. It's like, oh you know, yeah, it's like going to you know it's like going out on a nice night out and you meet someone and they're beautiful and you're having a great time and you're dancing and you're doing awesome, and everything's perfect, and you go home and they're just the ugliest thing you ever saw in the world. It's like, what happened? Oh who got in the taxi with me that wasn't the person I was dancing with. You know, it's like that's what this movie makes you feel like. It feels like there's a promise, and then it just did not deliver. No.

SPEAKER_00 3:54:38

No. All right, so those are our hot takes. We're almost done, guys. Quick fire questions. Answer fast, don't overthink. Oh shoot. I don't know if I'm even ready for these. Best scene of the movie.

SPEAKER_06 3:54:51

Best scene of the movie? Um, I didn't write these down. Unfortunately, I came unprepared, folks, today. But my my best scene of the movie, um, I'm gonna without overthinking, the first thing came to my mind was the destroying Tony's home scene. Phenomenal.

SPEAKER_00 3:55:08

I wrote down the end, but no, actually, it was the credits, the credits, yeah. Thank god. It was that. Um oh, I wrote down Tony's Home, but I also wrote down the last battle because I just want to see the Iron Legion fight.

SPEAKER_04 3:55:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:55:24

But Tony's Home really is the best scene, to be honest. Yeah, least best scene.

SPEAKER_06 3:55:30

So, right about the time Air Force One gets taken over, and the end credits is the least best scene of the movie. I'm gonna agree with that. Sorry guys, it just it was a hard watch.

SPEAKER_04 3:55:41

Yeah. I agree. Best villain moment for you. None. Okay. Fake villain moment, or I'll put it in two ways. Okay.

SPEAKER_06 3:55:54

I like when he's showing her the big brain. Because you can tell he's being flirty and all that crappy and all that, and you know he's oh, you're up to no good. But it is a very good scene with them too in that moment. That's great. I like that scene. Um, so I mean that's what I'll give to the real villain. My favorite moment is when Ben Kingsley's pretending to be the the Mandarin. I like when he's got he's I'm gonna kill this guy in 30 seconds. That whole scene's great. Love that. That's very intense. So there.

SPEAKER_00 3:56:21

I wrote the I wrote actually similar to that. For me, the imagery of the Mandarin was the best to see and how they did it.

SPEAKER_06 3:56:28

Yeah, a lot of fun stuff in that. That was that was probably my specific favorite one, though.

SPEAKER_00 3:56:33

No, I I agree. That was a shocker when I'm watching it. Yeah, all right. Most punchable face. I actually have two.

SPEAKER_06 3:56:38

You have two. Uh, do you want to go first? I can go. I mean, let me just see. Yeah, okay. So there's a few in this one. Some of them, though, I I forgive. The one I really want to punch, it in it's not so much his face. That's it, it is his face, too. It's his face and it's his reasoning, okay. The vice president needs his face smashed into the back of his head. He was my second. That SOB. Yes. First of all, come on. You know, look at his face.

SPEAKER_02 3:57:09

Yes.

SPEAKER_06 3:57:10

It's like a weird, I don't know what's going on there. Second of all, your motivation for betraying your country is because your kid's missing a leg. Yes. Go screw. Yes. You could ask Tony to make her a fake leg that she could have ran faster with. You could have been on the good side and had good stuff going on. He could have injected her of it without going through the charade. It's just for her to get her leg. You want everything to go to hell. What do you think? No. Like I said, this movie got dumb all of a sudden. So we're forgetting the dumbest parts. That's how fucking I'm sorry. That's how I apologize. That's how dumb it is. See, I get past it. I hate it when it gets that dumb, guys. I'm gonna take a sip and let Sammy say his.

SPEAKER_00 3:58:00

I could try editing that in post, but I don't know if it'll work. Oh anyways. I did write the vice president as my second pick, but my first pick was that stalker TV guy. That is creepy. That I I said TV guy.

SPEAKER_06 3:58:17

Is he punchable though?

SPEAKER_00 3:58:18

Because he's kind of you know, he yeah, he's he is uncomfortable, he's very uncomfortable. He reminds me of that that meme of uh X Factor, and that Stalker guy is talking to Britney Spears, and she's like, I'm uncomfortable with you standing up there, right?

SPEAKER_06 3:58:33

But he comes through though.

SPEAKER_00 3:58:34

He that's he goes up and he sets the thing up for him.

SPEAKER_06 3:58:37

He comes through. He does, but yeah, he needs a punch though. He needs to stop.

SPEAKER_00 3:58:41

Oh, I don't know the obsession he has is wild. Well, you know what's even worse than just having his face tattooed on him? It's it's not of a picture, it's a doll he made. Yeah, that's wild. That when you got to that point, I thought, oh, you gotta punch him right now because who knows what's gonna happen to you. Anyways, just to the Melissa there. So um one prop you take home. I'd had I changed mine because I wrote down one thing, but later after I printed this out, I had to write something else down. I got three, so why don't you say yours? Okay, my one was on there. Sure. My one is the screwdriver Tony finds at the end. Oh, that's a good one. That's good. He finds the rubber of his house and he's like, I could use this for stuff. Yeah, that's cool. That's a nice little trinket.

SPEAKER_06 3:59:26

Okay. So the three that stick, I can't pick between them because I think they'd all be unique. I think um the obvious one would be the watch. Oh, yes. The kid watch.

SPEAKER_04 3:59:36

Yes, that's a good one.

SPEAKER_06 3:59:37

You know, um kitty. And I like the name tag that he wrote the the thing on the back of that she has in the end that shows him. I think that'd be a cool prop. And I also think the the dog tags that that he points to in the robot would be a cool choice. All three of those I think would be fun. But yours is great too. The screwdriver's awesome too.

SPEAKER_00 3:59:57

So yeah, very good choices. Oh my gosh. All right. Uh bonus. Um what's I'm sorry, the most underrated moment you would say of the movie? The the most underrated moment.

SPEAKER_06 4:00:10

Um mine's a silly one because I think we've talked about all the things I think are worth talking about that are good. So the rest that's underrated to me aren't good, so it doesn't matter. But I think we I that scene where Tony and Rhodes are sitting at the bar and they're talking about the Iron Patriot is one of my favorite scenes. And and I I think what's underrated about that moment is do you notice when Tony leaves, he like parked the Iron Man suit outside like a motorcycle? Like it's just out there hanging out, and he just walks out and steps into it and leaves. Like it's like I just I don't know. I'm gonna say underrated because no one talks about that as a scene. And I talked about all the stuff I loved, so I I I yeah, I I struggled with that one.

SPEAKER_00 4:00:56

So uh my most underrated moment I would say were any of the PTSD scenes in the anxiety storyline. I think that Yeah, it could have been treated better. Not only could have been treated better, but I think this movie kind of overshadowed it to the point where almost belittled it. There when it was when those scenes were just that, it was perfect. It was great character development for Tony. But then when you get this crap that we're seeing on the TV screen right now of all the extremist stuff and all that, it's like it's overshadowing what could have been the um what should have been more of the climax of the movie is him trying figuring out a way not to overcome it like he's getting rid of it, but overcome it as an I found a way to cope with it. So I think that was a little underrated. It wasn't talked about enough in this movie. Or for in retrospective of this movie, I would say. All right, most overrated moment for you.

SPEAKER_06 4:01:50

Uh the pepper at the end getting all the powers can't stand it. Super pepper. Yep, go super pepper. Can't stand it. It's dumb. And we're looking at it right now. I don't I don't like any of what we're looking at right now. Look, why? What is this? What are we doing?

SPEAKER_01 4:02:06

Pepper jumping up.

SPEAKER_06 4:02:06

Yeah, sorry guys. You know you guys are looking at us like we're watching. It's like, yeah, it's it's just not none of it. I don't like any of it. I don't like any of it. It doesn't fit. It doesn't fit the character. It doesn't fit her care. It's not about a woman kicking butt. It's not the problem I got. It just does not fit her character at all. It just doesn't work for me.

SPEAKER_00 4:02:22

I get that. I totally understand that. My overrated moment actually is the um grabbing the people, the monkeys in the barrel, going down the no, that's a great, that's a great one too. It's awful. I could see that easily being clickbait for online stuff or for trailers and TV clips and all that, but honestly, it didn't fit.

unknown 4:02:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:02:43

It was illogical. And so that's I feel like that would be an overrated, overhyped moment. Yeah. Couldn't agree more. Funniest lines for you. Okay.

SPEAKER_06 4:02:52

So it is Tony Stark lines. It's got minor two. Yeah, I have I have two of them. Oh, yes. All right. One of them is with the kid when he says, yeah, the kid says the thing about his dad leaving. And Tony goes, Yep, dads do that. Like he just goes, it's just he's so insincere. Yeah. Like he is so but I laughed out loud. And the other one I laughed out loud is when that when the woman does show up at his house in the beginning, and he tells her, it's like there's not some kid out there, right? Yeah that I haven't met. And that that's like, you know, that's about you know 12 years old, and she says it'd be 13. And it's like it's like, but the way he just goes, I'm not gonna have some kid I haven't met, right? Like I'm just like, okay.

SPEAKER_00 4:03:33

Like that made me laugh. So that's awesome. Yeah. I like one of my favorite uh two. I have two of them too. Uh one is when he looks at Harley and he repeats back to him, we're connected.

SPEAKER_04 4:03:45

That's pretty good.

SPEAKER_00 4:03:46

And then I like that when he's with Roadie in the the um, it's not a bar. What is that place? It's it's a little diner or something. Like a diner kid. Yeah, yeah. And the the um he looks over at the kid that looks exactly like the kid from a Christmas store, and he says, You are great in a Christmas story.

SPEAKER_06 4:04:02

Yeah, he's got this there's probably a ton of yeah, there's a ton of one-liners that he has in his. It's just some just he hits him so quick. Did you just doze off? Like I just carry it. Yeah, the way he hits him is just is just brilliant. All right, most emotional moment for you. Um, I like when he has his heart to heart with pepper. Um, I think you actually have the same. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I like that's to me, that's probably the only moment in the movie that gets super emotional, anyways. So, yeah, for me that that's a great one. All right. Uh yeah, mine's exactly the same, folks.

SPEAKER_00 4:04:36

Exactly the same.

SPEAKER_06 4:04:37

Although I will say one moment that did give me the feels a lot was when Happy was in the hospital and he was next to him and he kind of told the nurse about the show. And like he was just like, because Happy's got these weird quirks too, and it shows their friendship that there was a quirky thing about them together, you know? So but but if I had to pick out of twos, it's him and Pepper, the is the biggest one, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_00 4:05:00

Yeah. Yeah, I agree. Alright, so guys, we're getting to our final scores. The multiverse meter for us. So, uh out of two, Ike, the story for you. Well, they wrote something.

SPEAKER_04 4:05:14

So I'm gonna give it a 0.5. I didn't know what I mean! I thought I was going real low there. Nope.

SPEAKER_00 4:05:20

Yep. Alright, characters for you. Uh one. Same thing for me. Action and visuals. Two. Yeah, same thing for me. Emotion and stakes. Uh 0.5. Okay. I was a little more generous, guys. I gave it a one. Um, rewatchability and MCU impact.5.

SPEAKER_04 4:05:38

I gave it a one. Fair. Yeah. Uh alright, so final scores. What what did you give it for a final score? That's okay. That's okay.

SPEAKER_06 4:05:58

So my final score in this movie, guys. Oh God, I'm trying to temper myself because where where I don't want to go too high on ones because I know there's ones coming, I don't want to go too low on some because I know there's worse coming. You're trying to be consistent. I'm trying to be consistent. So I am going to give this movie a solid four.

SPEAKER_04 4:06:21

Four out of ten. I think that's fair.

SPEAKER_00 4:06:29

So the official Godell multiverse score then would be a four point five out of ten. Because I think it's a five. Yep. So that sounds about right. 4.5.

SPEAKER_06 4:06:41

Oh boy.

SPEAKER_00 4:06:42

It just means, guys, wait till we get to the stuff that really is worse than this.

SPEAKER_06 4:06:45

Every time I look over at your computer screen and I see Robert Downey Jr.'s face like that, I feel ashamed I'm talking so much crap about his movie because I like him so much. Yeah. I look over it, I'm like, sorry, sorry. But it sucks.

SPEAKER_00 4:06:57

Anyway. All right. Final verdict. What is it? What is your one sentence final review for the film?

SPEAKER_06 4:07:03

Um, this movie okay, one sentence final review. Uh worth a watch, take a nap at the end or leave early.

SPEAKER_00 4:07:13

Um I put, if you are not a comic fan and just want to watch a fun action-packed film with a little heart in it, then this is a good watch. If you are a comic fan and cared about the greater universe the MCU is constructing, then this film can be deemed irrelevant.

SPEAKER_06 4:07:30

I like how our one-liners is I'm just like, I do these like real kind of like funny, like jabby things, but you got a really nice, elegant sense. We're gonna keep this up though. We're gonna keep it like that. I I'm doing it on purpose now because I'm like, I thought to myself, I'm gonna have to write something better. Sammy's really kicking my butt on this awesome one-liners. But I'm like, you know what? No, I think I'll be that other guy that just is like, yeah, this, this, there you go. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:07:52

Ike, why don't you take it away for this last part, guys? Our closing for the um Godell Multiverse podcast, episode eight. What would you have done differently to this movie? Pitch your version, sir.

SPEAKER_06 4:08:04

So I don't I I I don't I'm not gonna go into a whole like changing the entire movie. But what I will say about making this movie better would be definitely I think Tony, when he's tied up to the bed thing, I think he should say something to uh the villain that makes the villain want him to not like I think that we I think they need to they need to fix okay how I'm I'm sorry guys, let me start over. First of all, they need to fix this thing where they did where they tried to kill him in the beginning, but then at the end it was like ultimately we needed you, and I think that you could have fixed it easily if you just did it in the moment, if Tony came up with a thing to say to make him feel like he needed to have them, yep. And and that to me would have been smarter and more fun personally. Um, but there's some easy fixes I think that would make this ending better for me. If you want to keep the Iron Legion the way it did, sure, I gotta gripe about that. Um, I do think that the playing sequence could have used a little more logic, but you know what? I'll even give that to you. I'll let you have all the bull crap that I can be nitpicky about, okay? But these are the three things that you could have done for me that would have made this movie at least feel a little better or be more thoughtful. First of all, I would have never made Pepper have the powers. It just would have never happened. I think Tony should have reached his hand out, the whole scene should have played the way it did. She falls, he doesn't catch her, but then what does catch her should have been Rhodes in another Iron Man suit that you didn't know he got in and flew underneath with awesome music, and he catches her, and it just solidifies their friendship, it solidifies that they're there for each other, and he saved the thing that's closest to Tony. And then right after that, Tony should have put the suit on him just like he did in the movie, and that should have been the end of the villain is Tony killing him with the suit blowing up. That should have been that villain's ending. The only other thing I would have added to this that would have made the plane in the sequence a little better with the presidential thing involved, is this would have been the perfect time to have another character show up from the MCU to make you feel like this is still part of the big universe. And I would have had Captain America show up. I would have had him show up as on behalf of SHIELD. He's there to help save the president and let Cap be the one to do some real cool action scenes with a couple of the fire guys and get the president and get him out of there and then let the rest of the movie play out. That'd have been a great to me. To me, that'd have made this movie a six out of ten. That's how far it would have worked for me. Wow. Believe it or not. That's big because it's just those little things that make you go, oh, give it a reason why they tried to kill him and then let Tony be the one to take the bad guy out. Let Rhodes save her to solidify more of their friendship. Then if you do want him to kind of retire at the end, it was still a teamwork thing. I probably would have changed that too. I probably wouldn't have had him retire. You know, but yeah. Those are just little things I think would have been better about this movie. Without a complete rewrite, that's the only things I can think of.

SPEAKER_00 4:11:33

So I'll just read through mine, guys, real quick here because we are getting to the end. So, how I would have done it, I would have played into the story beast that the film desperately wanted you to see and feel, yet were overshadowed by some of the blatant mistakes that they had. Tony suffering from PTSD after the events of the Avengers and trying desperately to protect Pepper from an emerging, more dangerous world is perfect to enhance his character. Also making him showcase his technology so he becomes more of a detective by natural progression, his curiosity plus his advanced tech. This is the Iron Man I want to see more of and definitely keep those elements. I would say definitely recognize that you need elements and figures that represent the bigger universe, since that's already been established. That what Ike said, add characters and just throwing some out there that could be kind of throwaway characters you could add in there, such as like a Black Widow, a Hawkeye, Maria Hill, Nick Fury, characters like that that showcase a bigger universe at play. They have forgotten the world outside. And for God's sakes, change the villain dynamic. Keep the extremist storyline because that is interesting and it is a little refreshing for Iron Man as a film. I agree. Because if you think about it, the first two Iron Man films, it's just someone else in another armor. So this actually was interesting more for villain purpose, but the Mandarin folks.

SPEAKER_06 4:12:59

See how symbolic that would be if Tony did kill him with the armor? You're also kind of doing like you've complained about this before, so we're doing this for all the guys, you know?

SPEAKER_00 4:13:07

Yep. Instead, I would have suggest maybe a more obscure Iron Man villain, such as a character named Madame Mask, to become Iron Man's adversary. I did a little digging because I want to know what characters could have taken the place of the Mandarin that you then didn't have to worry about the whole Mandarin plot line, but would have made sense to the story they were trying to tell with the extremist thing, and I discovered this character, guys. I know why Marvel, though, wouldn't have done it. I'm going to say this first and foremost, because there was a controversy for this movie after it came out that they said the females will not sell toys, so they did not want the main villain to be a female. It's a stupid idea now, given that we've had Hella in Ragnarok, and that turned out really well. And I would buy that toy, but at the time they thought that was risky. So they wouldn't sell it.

SPEAKER_06 4:13:57

Is it true? That's true, huh?

SPEAKER_00 4:13:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 4:14:00

They forget that, you know, Sigorney Weavers sold tons of Ripley toys from Alien back in the Come on, guys. Kenner made a whole line of them in the 90s.

SPEAKER_00 4:14:10

So I w this is how I Madame Mask is who I would have picked. She's actually the daughter of a count to a major crime family. She was given away at birth to an American family and renamed Whitney Frost to protect her identity from her father's enemies. She was raised with a business mind mentality while also attempting acting. She eventually discovered her true heritage and became began to learn the ways of her father, even getting martial arts training. In the comics, she even dated Tony at one point. But for the sake of this film, we'll skip that part a little bit. Um, I do think the making her like an old flame of Tony and then coming back to being something else, kind of like what they alluded to with the Maya character. Yeah. Um, I think that would have been a little cool. I would have made her um a former actress turned businesswoman working with Aldres Killian to acquire Stark Industries partnership. She could present herself as a CEO businesswoman in contrast to Pepper Potts. Pepper, of course, shouldn't like her as she when she visits Tony because she finds out that that was his ex-fling at one time. So that's a natural thing that not really associate with your exes type thing. But she, like Maya in the original film, I would have had become an unsuspecting bad guy with Killian trying to acquire Tony to solve the glitch in Killian's extremist DNA sequencing. Kidnap Pepper is originally done, threatened to inject her, but not do it. Um, once they had done Tony and Pepper, I definitely would have had a little more of a radical side of Killian becoming a problem for Whitney. And during the battle, would have had him uh burn Whitney's beautiful face using that extremist fire hand that he has for a final blow, which would have given her her iconic mask later on. Um and I actually I would have ended it with her giving the final blow to Killian with an Iron Man mask on, which would have paid homage to what she looks like in the comics with a mask on because her face is so scarred, and also I kind of like that stuff that Brian Singer does a little bit with the X-Men where it gives a little purpose behind the scars that people have with the changes they have, and that's how I would have done it for that.

SPEAKER_04 4:16:20

Um that's my um Yeah, it's it's a way better movie.

SPEAKER_00 4:16:27

Yeah, I mean then you avoid the whole Mandarin thing. To my that was my goal is avoiding that part. Yeah, but anyways, I agree with all the other things you sent up to.

SPEAKER_06 4:16:36

Yeah, I think it I think we we come up with a lot of different ways this movie could have been a lot better. You know, unfortunately, it just wasn't that. You know, it sucks. It's not that.

SPEAKER_00 4:16:44

All right, guys.

SPEAKER_06 4:16:45

Well, yeah, hey, thanks for watching, guys, for sure. I mean, that was a lot of fun. When you say it was a good time with that one, I think it was.

SPEAKER_00 4:16:53

I think we had a great time with that, honestly. Uh it it's making me anticipate the next episode already because it's oh for sure, for sure. We know we're going up in this one.

SPEAKER_06 4:17:03

And with that said, what we got to come up next, guys, is we got another break uh breakdown, uh branch point breakdown, which is the season finale of Daredevil Born Again, season two, episode eight, season finale review. Yes. Let's hope my predictions come true, y'all. I mean, I got a couple real good ones. Watch them not do either. Um just be fine, but we'll see what it is. Let's hope it's good. Um, and we're gonna have Thor, the Dark World, is gonna be our main retrospective. That's gonna be a fun one to revisit because I know it's one that gets a lot of crap. A lot of people say it's the least of Thor, some of the least of the MCU. I don't remember it that way, so I'm curious to see if I feel the same way now. I remember it is not that bad, but I do remember it is not as good either. So I'm curious to see. You know, I'm gonna watch it twice and or at least three times, maybe if I can. But I try for three guys, usually it's twice and then revisiting some scenes. That's usually what it's been with the schedule lately.

SPEAKER_00 4:17:59

I'm probably gonna be watching it as soon as we're done here while I'm editing this video.

SPEAKER_06 4:18:03

Yeah, there you go. Yeah, it's I'm probably I'm gonna watch it tomorrow. Yeah, yeah, to be honest with you. So yeah, no, it's I'm I'm looking forward to it. And and look uh sometime within the next week. I have another episode of Dark Dimension coming out. It's a good one, guys. Got three new good ones for you. So, world gory stuff, fun stuff. Have fun with that. And uh, I don't know, Sam. You got anything else to add?

SPEAKER_00 4:18:23

I got nothing else to add. Just uh definitely uh like and subscribe to all of our social media. And um, we're on YouTube, we're on Facebook, we're on Instagram, we're on TikTok too. We're rolling out those reels, guys, and we have some hot takes on those reels on things that are happening, so definitely be taking an eye or checking them out, I should say.

SPEAKER_06 4:18:41

Check out my one on Thanos. Oh, all your Thanos haters out there, watch that.

SPEAKER_00 4:18:46

Yeah, yeah. All right, and a shout out real quick on one of the reels that I did to Miss Evangeline Lily. She shares the same sentiments that I have about the Marvel layoffs. I told you guys it was gonna happen, and she's probably gonna be the first out of many that's gonna say it. So kudos to the wasp. Thank you so much. All right, and thanks guys for joining us on the Goodell Multiverse podcast. We hope you guys have had a good time just as we have. Until next time, see you at the movies.