Ep9 - Thor Dark World Retrospective with Daredevil DA S2 Ep8 Review

The Goodell Bros discuss the news of the week - including Avengers Secret Wars securing IMAX screens, Wonder Man Season 2 Release Schedule, Mortal Kombat 2 Introspective - then react to the latest rumors - including Avengers Doomsday Spoilers, Supergirl Post Credits Scenes, Thor 5 - then a review and breakdown of Daredevil Born Again Season 2 finale. All this comes to an epic conclusion with the main event: Thor The Dark World Retrospective!

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

On every timeline in every universe. There's one thing that we always talk about.

SPEAKER_03 0:08

Marvel.

SPEAKER_02 0:09

Hello, everybody. Welcome to the Goodell Multiverse. I'm Isaiah Goodell. I'm Sam Goodell. And we are on episode nine of our March to Doomsday. Yeah, today's a big one, guys. I'm going to tell you what our agenda is. We're real excited. We had a nice week this week. We had some really fun things to share with you. We saw a movie actually talk about for the first time. Be a lot of good times there. But hey guys, we're going to obviously we're going to start out with our multiverse minute. And then we're going to go right into our rumor rumor mill rundown. And we'll do our branch point breakdown of the final episode of Daredevil Season 2, Born Again. Episode 8. Be a very interesting one to talk about. It's kind of an interesting episode. And then our main event, guys, we're going to do a retrospective of Thor, The Dark World. Thor 2, technically. Yeah, it was that was a fun, it was a fun watch. I think we're going to have an interesting podcast on it. You know, I find that I'm being harder on these movies and I feel bad. I I I always want to kind of say in general, these are all excellent movies. You know, so when we get there, I'll talk more about that, guys. But we there's some fun, fun things to talk about with this one. So I think uh how do you feel about this episode coming up, Sammy? Can't we talk Mortal Kombat 2?

SPEAKER_00 1:22

Oh yeah. Well, I'm I can't wait to talk about Mortal Kombat 2. We're adding that to our multiverse minute guys. It's really, really cool. Um, but some of the rumors have been going around too. I'm kind of excited to talk about some of them a little bit. And um I'm definitely interested in talking about the Daredevil season finale. So it means there's high expectations for it. And so we got our two cents on what we think about the guys. Yeah, yeah. It's it's it's gonna it's different than I thought it was gonna be. So we'll that's a little like taste of what's to come. Right, right. And then Thor 2, man, I tell you, I can't wait to talk about this. So that's I'm yeah, it's gonna be a good one.

SPEAKER_02 2:02

Yeah, yeah, it's you know me. I'm gonna be the negative Nelly, but it's not for a bad reason, though. This movie's still better than people make it out to be. So yeah, bear with me, guys. I'm still kind of dealing with a cold. So if I cough or something, I'm gonna have a couple things that I can do here to make sure my voice sticks with me, but we'll get through this episode just fine.

SPEAKER_00 2:20

So other than that, I think we should get started. All right, here comes the multiverse minute, even if it's 45 minutes.

SPEAKER_02 2:33

All right, guys, welcome to the multiverse minute on the Godell Universe or Multiverse, sorry about that. And this year, guys, we got three really good things to talk with you about today. Uh, quick ones to be honest with you. There's not much to say on either of these, uh, but we do have a few minutes that we're gonna talk Mortal Kombat when we get towards the end of this. So I'm gonna let uh I'm gonna go ahead and start this off real quick for news of the week. Um, let's see what we got here. So IMAX proves to still be king as Marvel Studios secures IMAX screens to the doomsday sequel coming out in December 2027. So, Sammy, what's your thoughts about this?

SPEAKER_00 3:12

All right, yeah. Well, when when that news broke, which was shortly after our last episode that we recorded, that was um it was kind of funny. It coincided with the IMAX CFO Natasha Fernandez, um, because she recently came out criticizing Marvel and well and Disney in particular, not Marvel, for their vision um was Infinity Vision uh formatting. And I had to write down her exact quote because it was literally at the same time that it was announced that Avenger Secret Wars has secured these IMAX screens, which they wanted for Doomsday, but then Doom 3 picked up three consecutive weekends in a row and they opened up the same time. So of course that was a hot topic for a while of is Doomsday gonna move its date then, or something else gonna happen, and something else happened. But pardon me is just a little I was curious how long this would actually last. This infinity uh infinity vision uh branding that they're doing because they're not doing anything new, right? They're just finding select theaters that have select um additional enhanced options like the D-Box seats at Cinemart or um whatever the one that uh Regal has. I don't know on the top of my head. Oh, yeah, 40X, yeah, yeah. Yeah, so I think they're just gonna find those special seats that certain um companies have, and they're gonna say, this is an infinity vision thing, just for a branding thing. I I get why they're doing it. They want to make your doomsday experience still feel special since you don't have the IMAX opportunity, at least for three weeks. Um but the um the IMAX CFO, she said um part of her uh her post, I would say, or what she has said spokenly about it, is that you know, Marvel fans, we believe that they're among the savviest, most discerning moviegoers out there. There's a reason why we're the undisputed leader in premium cinema worldwide. No one can match our relationship with filmmakers. And I really do think I know that she's doing her job and promoting her brand and everything, but anyone who goes to a movie for an IMAX experience, you definitely get something special. Like they this is a company that's tailored themselves to making the movie going experience as um unique as possible than just your standard 2D format and things like that. And everything still looks good in 2D, so I'm not dissing any of your local small theaters that like we have a local one in Warsaw, New York, that you uh don't have some of these extra special enhanced features and they do a great job. And I always try to support local as much as we can because those theaters seem to be um going away a little bit. But um for experiences like Doomsday and things like that, I I want to see them and make this a huge experience you can't forget type thing, you know. Um, so my my thoughts are exactly what you read there that IMAX still proves they're the king when it comes to some of this stuff, and unless Disney decides in 2027 to continue with this Infinity Vision branding and actually do something to literally rival IMAX, I don't feel like Infinity Vision is gonna last too long. No.

SPEAKER_02 6:32

Yeah, I have similar thoughts. I actually when I read into this and think about it more, I think to myself, what is this that Disney's trying to do? Because it isn't anything new. If they're using existing already theaters and existing material and existing um experiences to just put a label on it, and it it just it puts that as much of a Marvel fan as I am, and we and this is what the why we do this, guys, is because we love these movies. So I don't want to diss Disney too much, but I gotta be honest, this just kind of this Infinity Vision thing makes me feel like they're kind of the bullies on the block. Where if you're gonna do something to have this kind of branding, then you need to come up with something different. Because IMAX is here to stay, man. Like it was it was something that was created to be that way. There's too many good filmmakers out there that like using IMAX. Christopher Nolan actually invented a new camera to do the new Odyssey movie as an IMAX camera. The entire movie The Odyssey is filmed on in complete IMAX. The problem with IMAX cameras is that they're big and they're loud, so you couldn't do a lot of close-up shots of someone's face. So he went and they invented a new camera that was quiet, that was still IMAX, that was still an IMAX camera. So once again, Nolan does this thing where you go see his movie and you're seeing for multiple times he's done this in his films. This is probably at least the fourth or fifth one I can think of where he's done something you've never seen done on film before, which is what makes him such a unique filmmaker. Everyone talks Stanley Kubrick's the best. You wait till Nolan's done. Wait till 20 moving movies when Nolan's done, and you realize the the feats that he went to to make his movies happen. Go see the Odyssey, guys. The movie is going to be amazing. I I hope it makes the money. But that's a great example, though. I mean, he literally invented a camera in order to be an IMAX camera. They're not gonna do this for Infinity Vision. It's because Infinity Vision is essentially IMAX just with their name on it now.

SPEAKER_00 8:43

Well, it's the thing is they're they're not even IMAX. Right, they're not screens.

SPEAKER_02 8:47

You're right.

SPEAKER_00 8:48

Yeah, exactly. They're just extra things, right? Like oh, I'm curious about, and I haven't looked this up, but please go to the comment section, guys, and tell me if this is something that's actually happened. Because uh Marvel movies, they have been, for the most part, being filmed in IMAX cameras because they're expecting to get the IMAX screening and they want to make sure they're prepared for that experience. I wonder if Dunes Day was filmed for IMAX and this, I feel like they would be butthurt because of the deal that they had with Dune getting the three weekends in a row at the same time. And their Disney's like, we poured all this money into IMAX cameras and we can't even get it on an iMac screen. I wonder if this is just part of their retaliation to be like, look, we just spent money for your branding that you're now not gonna let us at least divide and conquer for the screens.

SPEAKER_02 9:36

I don't think I think you hit the nail on the head. I think this is just their petty way of being about that. And and sorry, Disney, I'm gonna say this to you, but this is the competition you're up against. Say what you want about Dune. I know it's a little slower for some people, they are really good though. And people that love that sci-fi stuff like that that's done in that IMAX, they want to see it. And I am of the belief that there are certain movies that are made for IMAX screens. Like obviously, they make them for the IMAX screen, but there are movies that are told best in that screen or in that kind of format. And Dune is one of them. Watching Dune at home on a small TV, guys, frankly, is kind of boring, and not in a bad way, but it's like, okay, this looks good, this is cool. But when you're immersed in the IMAX film itself, it's great. Another great example is F1. This last this you watched it, we watched it here at home on a big screen, loud sound. It was great, looked great, but I saw an IMAX three times. And boy, when you watch that in IMAX, what a different experience. It's that's one of those movies. If they ever come out again in IMAX, I would encourage you to come with me and watch it again because you've seen it, but trust me, when you see them racing in IMAX, you feel like you feel the wind, even though there's no wind, you know? And I gotta tell you, if they're talking about D-Box and 4DX being these things, it's gonna help with that. I made the big mistake of going to see the last Mr. Impossible movie in 4DX. I'm not a fan of 4DX. It made me, it distracted me. First of all, I didn't realize what was gonna happen. There wasn't a lot of disclaimer to, hey, by the way, when you're in here, it's like a ride. I mean, they kind of talk like that when you see the advertisements, but what kind of ride is a movie theater, right? Oh no, these seats lift off the ground, and like every move they jerk and pull and jerk and pull. And at one point, I'm like, this is kind of fun and it's unique, and there's water comes down when there's something wet. There's interesting stuff in it, but it really did not immerse me into the movie like an IMAX movie does. When we when we went and saw Fantastic Four, that was perfect. The seat moved a little, there's some vibration. It's like you felt like you were involved in it, but it didn't make you feel like you're being pushed around. Yeah. And the Mission Possible one was more like a universal ride than it was an actual sitting and watching a movie, which sucks because the movie's fantastic because I went and watched it again without all the special bells and whistles, and it's an amazing movie. Um, I just wished I'd watched it first without that, you know? So if that's what they're counting on, then I don't need those things for these movies to be good. Heck, we saw Avengers Infinity War in our own little local theater downtown that the sound wasn't that good, the place was falling apart, and we loved it. What and where did we go to see it again? To an IMAX screen.

SPEAKER_00 12:18

And it was amazing. It looked great, but I I'll be honest, we saw it in IMAX 3D. Yeah, 3D doesn't really help much. And I this is just me personally. What uh I've chosen now to not watch those 3D movies unless I have to, because if I didn't watch Infinity War in our local theater, when I went to see it, I was like, oh my, my brain was like, I can't comprehend some of the movements that we're doing. Yeah, no, I understand. If we see it, it's roughly the standard version of IMAX, I'm sure that's gonna be magnificent.

SPEAKER_02 12:48

And that that's kind of you know, in the IMAX serves these superhero movies because they're big and spectacle. I've always been of the opinion there's some movies you see in theaters and there's some movies you don't. There's a lot of movies I watch. I mean, that didn't need to be seen in the theater. There's movies I watch, I'm like, man, I wish I saw that in a theater, you know, because it's just how big it is. The problem Marvel, or not Marvel, I'm sorry, but Disney's looking at here, is it it does feel like you're just pushing the competition around and you're creating competition that frankly, what what is it that you're going to offer that makes us feel like this new thing is better than what we've already had for a while? If IMAX was newer and they were just in a race to see who gets the most popular, I could see there being a competition going on about these theaters doing these extra things. But IMAX has been around for quite a while now. I mean, back when Blu-ray and 40X were having their fight against who's gonna be, or not 40X, but the uh Ultra HD. Ultra HD, that's right. Yeah when they were gonna have their fight about who's gonna be on top. Right. Yeah, look who clearly won. But they come out right around the same time. There was a clear competition of a grab to see who's gonna get more interest. Blu-ray just kicked the butt. You know, even today you can still buy buy some Blu-ray. Yeah, I mean, physical media is going out the window, which is I've I think it's a shame. Because hey, when the power's out and there's no internet, what do you got, y'all? Just saying, all these subscription stuff that you have, you pay for these movies and stuff. What if they have a licensed issue or they sell to somebody and that thing that you bought on a thing is now not yours anymore, but you had already paid to keep it? Oh no, I'll keep my DVDs and put it in whatever I want. But that's just my opinion on that. I'm not saying that streaming hasn't been amazing and you have all these options, and yes, use it. But I I don't think we should walk away from physical media. Um, but IMAX has just been around for way too long and has had its footprint way too well on it. I mean, you got don't get me wrong, I don't like the Avatar movies, but those are all gonna be IMAX and they're huge and they're making all the money, and James Cameron loves using that too. So you're talking about a lot of very large influential filmmakers and studios that they're already kind of embedded into this IMAX idea. You know, it's the only thing you're gonna get out of this Disney uh this vision thing you're gonna get is is the new people. Is anyone new that thinks it's cool to have that on it label on it? Because right now you're just what are you really offering? You know, I I just don't I just don't see it. I see it as another power move. Like, do you need to own anything more? You know, it's like guys, slow it down.

SPEAKER_00 15:30

That's the thing, they don't own it. That's the the the you're right, it's just a recognition. Marketing play as uh that uh iMac CFO said it is a marketing play because even Disney admitted we're not building anything new, we're not redoing the movie in a certain way that it looks better on these screens. They're literally just putting a little stamp of their personal, their personal approval on special select screens. Uh guys, if they take off this infinity vision label, you're still gonna get those seats filled. Yeah, oh for sure. For both these movies, for Dune and for Yeah, well for Doomsday, the even with all this that's coming out about Dune having and owning, securing I all the IMAX screens for three consecutive weeks. I don't even know if they've even mentioned is week four, is doomsday gonna be on that. It probably is for all we know. I don't know. I didn't look that up. Please tell me in the comments, guys. But like there, even with all that happening, all the movie industry insiders say that doomsday will be the number one movie of the year. So it's almost like, do you need Infinity Vision at all to succeed? And I'm not saying that it's a done deal, because you know, something crazy could happen and doomsday be overtaken by Dune 3. Who knows? Or something else? Who knows? There's more movies coming out this year, guys. They all look really cool. But like I I agree with you. I feel like this is kind of like a bully play. It feels that way. Sorry, Disney, but and frankly, Disney, if you really wanted some rival IMAX, you would actually be building something. Yeah, you would actually be trying to reach out to maybe these small business owners that are struggling with your movies, anyways, because from my understanding, playing a Disney movie in a small locally owned movie theater, they don't get as much money as they do from other studios because Disney, they're kind of greedy when it comes to that stuff. So if there's a way you could partner up with some of them to be like, hey, we're gonna help enhance your studio or I'm sorry, your your theater chain or your theater, and then slap something like this on it. Oh, cool. That means you're contributing to the small businesses out there that are struggling to survive, anyways, and these big um conglomerate type entities that are out there, but you're not doing that. So yeah, and you don't gotta worry, everyone's gonna go see your movie, guys.

SPEAKER_02 17:53

Like this is this is Doomsday, this is Dr. Doom, number one that puts butts in seats. Yep you got you got everyone coming back, you got the old X-Men coming back, you got Robert Downey Jr. coming back, you got Captain America coming back. I mean, you guys, you could have the worst movie in the world and you're still gonna make a billion dollars. Oh, yes. It's but you're and you're but you're not gonna take the fans away from Dune either, no matter what you do, no matter how awesome and colorful you make it, or try to slap some sort of new name on it to give it something, or give us a reason to have to go watch Endgame again just because you have stuff you forgot to tell us, whatever. You know, whatever your your gimmick is, it's just it's unnecessary, it feels. Because it's still you're still gonna make the money.

SPEAKER_00 18:36

And you know what's funny? I was um I heard John Campia say this thing. I heard him say this on his show recently. That um he's gonna turn right around after seeing Avengers Doomsday and see Dune 3. And he is not the only person in the world who's gonna literally do that. There that when that weekend comes, Saturday may be doomsday, but Sunday is Dune's Day, whatever, you know, Dune 3 day. So like both of these movies are gonna be neck and neck when it comes to the financial aspect of them.

SPEAKER_02 19:10

So our local drive-in theater plays two movies at once. Yeah. Well, after we go see Doomsday and and probably IMAX or whatever the heck we go see it in, I'm gonna probably go there and watch Doomsday again and Dune right after in the same screen because that's just how it works.

SPEAKER_00 19:24

Like, yeah, that's true. Because uh they I mean our local drive-in they close during the winter because we're in Western New York guys, we get blizzards. But when they reopen back up before the hot movies really start rolling out, they play some of those movies that they couldn't play during the winter. And I am I will be shocked if they don't play these two movies back to back, just because guaranteed money making.

SPEAKER_02 19:47

Yeah, they've already announced yeah, our local they've already announced they're gonna play Endgame and Infinity War, Infinity War and Endgame towards the end of the year, anyway, to get oh, so that might be a great double feature to go to the drive-in, you know, someday.

SPEAKER_01 19:57

That's awesome.

SPEAKER_02 19:58

But that's that's how we deal with it, right, guys. Like we're gonna see it. It's just everyone's gonna go watch it. You could play it on a tiny screen and people are gonna come see your movie. They want to see it. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:07

So, anyways, guys, what do you think about this? Star um sorry, I almost said Star Wars. That's what my brain's going to when I looked at Secret Wars. Oh no, don't let's not go there.

SPEAKER_01 20:17

Come at me.

SPEAKER_00 20:18

Um stupid Jedi. Uh Secret Wars secures IMAX. Secret Wars secures IMAX screens uh for 2027. So, yippee, Marvel, you got it, Disney, you got it. So, what do you guys thought think of our thoughts when it comes to the Doomsday, um, IMAX, debacle, and Infinity Vision. And what do you think about are you gonna go see uh Secret Wars and IMAX? Who knows? Now you have that option, or Doomsday you don't. So there you go. Questions for you guys. All right, so the next topic we're gonna talk about on our news of the week is Wonderman Season 2. Sounds like it's gonna be a ways away from actually filming and being released, guys. So after Disney Greenlit Wonderman season two, the um scheduling will have some conflicts. Her Yahya Abdul Mateen, who I love his name, by the way. I think it's a tough one, but it's a fun one once you get it. Yeah, it is Yaya, Yahya. Okay. Um he says it's due to some committed engagements for him and Destin Daniel Cretin. So um apparently uh there's they have already some stuff that they've personally been committed to do, both of them. Destin Daniel Creton right now is currently focusing on the promotion for Spider-Man brand new day. That's right, that's happening at the moment. Uh, I know that he also is set to write and direct a Nataro uh film. Oh, okay. Yeah. Um, I don't know how recent that was announced, but also he has continuously been talking about, and it sounds like they actually are gonna be doing. A Shangji 2, finally. It's taking them for a long time, but uh it sounds like he says that is one of his next projects. So um, and Yahya said he's got all these different things going on to himself. Um, and I think I'll just give my two cents before I pass over to my brother Ike to to give his two cents. Um I don't think that they were expecting Wonder Man to be as well as it was, in my opinion, because as we talked about when um we did our multiverse minute one time announcing that um Wonderman was getting second season, um, that that was only like I think the third show to ever get a second season from Disney, from Marvel in particular, I would say. Um, I think it was just really well received, and I think even Yaya even said this that it was um they were surprised at how well it did where they immediately greenlit it, so they weren't ready. They just weren't they they knew they had an ideas for season two, but everyone has an idea for continuing their franchise along or their their story along, but not always do they get the green light, and especially for this one, they got the green light like as the finale was being premiered, I believe. So there that was like, okay, we got it, but now as he recently said in an interview, um it might be a ways away because they're nothing's written, they're just not ready yet. So what are your thoughts like so?

SPEAKER_02 23:27

I'm gonna be brief on this, guys, because I like the show. It's a lot of fun, and I could see a season two being made. Um, but this is the kind of stuff I want Disney to pump the brakes on, anyways. You know, let's get past and let's get past uh Secret Wars, get some announced new stuff coming. You know, let's see the I would care. I'll be honest with you, I don't want to see any TV stuff until after we get the first X-Men movie. Like I know it's not gonna happen, we're gonna probably get stuff sooner, but don't hurry it. If there's nothing written and nothing's ready anyways, then just don't cool, you're telling us you want to do it. This to me is almost a no news until it's news. You know, this this actor is is kind of hot right now, he's gonna be doing a lot of stuff. So give it time, make it good, make it worth it, make it clear if it's important for the timeline of going forward for for the Marvel stuff. Like canon, you know, if that to me that's my only concern is I could care they could do 30 of these seasons if they want. But we just I just want to know what it means and if it means anything. Because if it doesn't, then bring it and it's fine, do it whenever. But don't rush it. Take the James Gunn approach, guys. If it's not ready, it's just not ready. You know, if you can't get the cast together right away, you just can't get them together. Don't rush this thing because that's the problem with 90% of your other stuff, is you just I felt like you're rushed, and that's why we got some of the stuff that we have some issues with. So to me, it's it's simple, you know, it's cool. I'm glad you want to. I don't know personally if this show was the show I was hoping to get a second season to, I guess. You know, I mean it's good, uh, but I don't know. I think there could be other things you could venture into. It like I said, it all brings into question the restructuring of their TV versus their movies and what they're gonna do after Secret Wars is what I'm more concerned about. And that's where this is gonna fall in. And so let's see what that means when we get there. If they say these are all completely separate stories and you don't need to watch them at all, for sure, nail in the coffin, that's the final answer. I'll still be excited to watch it. And if they say you do gotta see it, then I'll still watch the season two of this because it was good. I just I just need it's just hard to get excited for something that I'm still kind of very confused about, how to feel. And because I don't, like I said, it's gotta be good to get my attention. I got other shows I'm watching that are better than what they're putting out, you know. Um Daredevil's been the exception because we cover it on the show. But it there are other shows I've put to the side to watch it, and that that's not being mean, it's just that's to me the quality of TV show. You gotta you gotta be up there, you know, and that's why I get so hard on it, you know. And I don't oh I don't want to sound like I'm you know beating the bush with it, but it does feel that way sometimes. So yeah, make it good. Whatever it's gonna be, take your time. I'm fine with this news. To me, it's to me it's a no news kind of thing.

SPEAKER_00 26:31

There are two things there are two things for me that kind of stick out with this uh whole thing of Wonder Man season two. First off, they ended season one really, really well. And honestly, it was one of my favorite episodes. But one of the things I liked about it is that you definitely can tell more of a story, but there wasn't a cliffhanger, there wasn't a need for you to have to go and do a second season. It could just be done, it could be done and you could now incorporate him into the theatrical MCU, and you this was irrelevant stuff. And I'm not saying that in a bad way. I actually like it. I this is kind of in my view what Disney Plus was supposed to be for the Marvel shows. You give a little bit of an extra story to a character, but you didn't you could put this guy in Doomsday or in Secret Wars, and there's there's no need to watch this show because there's nothing big enough in this show to make it where oh you have to touch upon it in the in the movies. You could just add him in there, give him a two-second origin um to talk about I'm f I'm a struggling actor from LA and I'm a superhero now, guys. That's it. That's simply it, all you have to do. That was how great the show was. One of the so there's that. And then the second piece to that that came in my brain is if Kevin Foggy is intending for the shows moving forward after the Vision Quest to not be tied into the theatrical versions of the shows, what does that say about Wonder Man season two? Are you eventually gonna bring Wonder Man into the movies, but yet you're still wanting to do a season two of the show? So are you gonna do another, no offense, irrelevant season because you're m keeping your promise that we don't need to watch season two in order to get when his next movie is gonna be, his appearance in the movie is gonna be. And you can do that. Like I said, season one, you did that. You did that really well, people liked it, and you did a clean cut where you didn't have to watch it if you put him into the movies. But going forward with a season two, are you gonna be able to maintain that while still upping the stakes from season one to season two, but not making it too much where okay, now you have to talk about in the movie, which is the biggest gripe we've had forever. Yeah, for a long time. So that's my thoughts about it.

SPEAKER_02 28:57

I think the litmus test of this is gonna be Spider-Man. Because we've had characters show up in the movies from the TV shows-ish. You know, like here and there, there's a little bit to it, you know. But I think Spider-Man having Punisher being so front and center as one of the side characters is gonna be that test of how much do about him do you need to know in order to watch Spider-Man, you know? Um I think that that's gonna be a tightrope that they're gonna walk. And I think they're afraid of this. I think that's why they've been like this. Instead of just doing a show for a character and then introducing them in a movie, then the people say, Man, that character was kind of neat. I wonder what what there is to this guy. Oh, wait, I can go back and watch a whole season of something about him. You know, and then you get all the fun little Easter eggs there and have a good time with it, but it didn't matter what happens in the movie. Yeah. I mean, is that how it's gonna be with Punisher and Spider-Man? We don't know. You know, it's it's that's you could be in a spot where wait a minute, am I supposed to am I missing something here? And they've already kind of made that mistake with Wanda in Doctor Strange, where it's like it that's where it gets unclear to me. And that that's what I'm hoping they put an end to and fix going forward.

SPEAKER_00 30:09

Yeah, well that well, that's to your point there. That's what we were promised from Kevin Fide in the very beginning of all this. This this is just an extension, and he literally said of those secondary characters that may not be qualified enough, quote unquote, to get a theatrical film on their stories, but you want to see more of their stories because the comics, of course, tell everybody about everything. Um, then that's what Disney Plus was supposed to be. Their mistake was they relied on the audience having to watch Disney Plus in order to watch the movies, and that is where Kevin Foggy again addressed the what having homework in order to watch your movies, and that's what we don't want anymore. We've all been saying that this the greediness to Disney itself, and I am not blaming Kevin Foggy specifically on this because I think the change of hands in Disney as a CEO at that time and the demand that even Kevin Feige said was placed on him and other departments within Disney of pump out as much Disney Plus content, I think they kind of didn't have a choice. And I d I think that they were just trying to be a team player and doing the best they could, but now you got you got your reins back. So dial it back, do the quality versus quantity, and we'll see. We're gonna see how this goes. So, question is for you guys now. Uh Wonder Man season two, we are gonna get it. Do we need to have it? And when do you think we're gonna get it? Because it might be two years, not one year, like Daredevil's doing. So guys, questions for you, leave it in the comments and let us know your thoughts. All right. Ike away our final topic.

SPEAKER_02 31:49

Our final topic today, guys, is Mortal Kombat 2. Us two Goodell brothers went and saw the new Mortal Kombat 2 movie literally last night. And uh, yeah, let's talk about it. By the way, I went and got myself this guy right here. Hopefully that shows up on the screen just enough. So you can see that there.

SPEAKER_03 32:11

There you go.

SPEAKER_02 32:12

It's an awesome popcorn helmet thing. It's really cool because his head opens, it's really neat.

SPEAKER_00 32:16

Yeah, it's it's kind of meta because of what happens to him in the movie. 100%. So spoils, spoiler alert, by the way. By the time this episode gets released, the movie is still gonna be fresh in the theaters on this multiverse minute. So spoiler warning, major spoiler warning. You heard it one more time, spoiler warning. We're getting into it. Let's finish it.

SPEAKER_02 32:37

Yeah, this movie's awesome. Oh my gosh. After sleeping on it, you know, it's cheesy, it's bad, but it's not bad. It's like, it's exactly what I think Mortal Kombat should be. And it I'm gonna say, I'm just gonna go right off and go on my little thing about it real quick with you, because I gotta tell you, first of all, this guy here, Shell Khan, holy cow, he's awesome. Oh my god, I want a statue of him. Oh my god. His every second he's on screen, you're like, oh, what can happen? He can do they made sure that nobody's safe in this movie, guys. People die. He is intimidated. He is his voice, his presence, his goal. He was not a mustache twirling villain. He wasn't, he just he had it, he's gonna get it done, and they're gonna cheat. They're gonna cheat on the tournament because that's what the bad guys do in all the games, all that stuff. And it's great. And I gotta tell you, the fighting in this movie is spectacular. It is spectacular. I gotta do a shout out to there's a fight in this movie between Liu King and um Kung Lao. Oh my lord. I it's one of the most entertaining scenes of action that I've probably seen in the last 10 or 15 years. The rest of this movie could have been dog shit. And that scene right there made it worth it. What an amazing scene. Just using the moves. It was an emotional scene. Luke Kane knew he was gonna win.

SPEAKER_00 34:11

They did it and it didn't turn out cheesy. It just looked like a natural part of them.

SPEAKER_02 34:16

He throws that hat and then teleports outside of the hat and then kicks him in the head. What are we looking at? Like I was just like, wow. I'm sure Sammy heard me audibly a couple times go, oh wow. Yeah. And when that the back portal behind them is blue with that beautiful blue, and then it turns like a deep red at one point, and it's like, what an amazing theatrical experience. And this movie does this several times. Now it's got moments where you're like, oh my god, this dialogue sucks. And you know, the really low dip moments where you realize, okay, this movie's not. If you're looking for Shakespeare and you're looking for Lord of the Rings meets Mortal Kombat, you're not getting it, guys. But that's not what you want, I promise you. Go watch, we were three of us were in this movie, and then two people joined like partway through the beginning. Yeah. So the whole theater opening night last night was nobody's there.

SPEAKER_00 35:05

Which blew my mind.

SPEAKER_02 35:07

Yeah, and it's like, I hope that's not going on across the country. I hope I hope it's just because it was Rinky Dink Little Warsaw New York. You know what I mean? Because I gotta tell you guys, you're missing out. Like this movie's a lot of fun. Like they they kill characters, though, and you know what this movie does? What a sequel does that rarely ever happens. It only happens, I can think of maybe once or twice. Maybe uh the best uh example I have is Terminator and Terminator 2, where the sequel makes the first one better. So if you don't like the first movie or you were disappointed by it, this movie not only is better, but it'll make you feel better about the first movie. And to me, that's a big deal because that first movie had some faults, had some issues. And my my most favorite part about it is they took like Cole Young from the first movie, no one really liked him. They all complain of the character from the game and who you focused on and whatever. And then in this movie, though, you like you are almost like, oh, I actually like him now, and he dies real quick. Yeah, like he's like one of the first fights that happens that he dies, but the way he dies and how he dies and why he dies. Guys, he beats Shell Khan. Like, I mean, this is spoiler talk, y'all. He wins that fight, but because Shell Khan's cheating, he kills him. Oh, and you're like, wait a minute, he actually won? Like and at the end, you notice when they uh they do a cool thing at the end where they're the music's playing, and as the character name comes up, yeah, they say the name of the character in the Mortal Kombat fashion, like Scorpion. Yeah, you notice they did they did Cole Young, like Cole Young. And I'm like, I hope the next video game comes out and he's a character in the game. Yes, I mean that's the tyranny. They better. And you know what justice for Cole Young. I wanted to come in back, I want to see him in the third one. I don't care what y'all say, you can hate on that first one all you want. Watch this movie and look at it through the guise of that first movie was an introduction into this world, and now this movie was like, we don't need to introduce you no more, so we're just gonna get started right now. And that's what it does. It hits the pedal, and other than maybe taking a couple pit stops here and there to change the tires, it goes 100 miles an hour right to the end of the movie.

SPEAKER_00 37:12

Oh, yes. It is action from beginning to end. Yeah, there is dialogue, of course, not always the best dialogue, but it's just enough of a story exposition so you know what's happening next. And then it's right on to the next battle. And there, and it is it is so cool, I will say, as for one of the hardest parts of adapting a video game into a consistent, cohesive movie, is how, especially a fighting game like Mortal Kombat, is how do you make it where these random characters start fighting each other without forcing them to get together type thing? Yes, they do this so well, they treat it like a video game, but it's not corny.

SPEAKER_02 37:53

It's like watching people play with it.

SPEAKER_00 37:54

When they glow up and they're like, Oh, I guess you're chosen, and then they just teleport away. And then they arrive. And guys, where they go to fight, oh you right out of the game, right out of the game. You pick any battlefield you see in the Mortal Kombat games, in particular Mortal Kombat 11, which is my personal favorite Mortal Kombat game, and they definitely nail the tone of that game in this movie, like to a T. And I tell you, the the scenes like what we just talked about with Xiao Kahn versus Cole Young. That whole it's just the acid area with the yeah, yeah, the green acid, you guys know it. They had it in the 2D, then they brought it back in the the recent games. Now you get a cinematic version of it, and it looks just as cool as you can imagine. And then when they pan out, showing them getting ready to fight, it looks like the actual video game where you're panning out, and then it cuts. Yeah. Because of course they're doing fighting and they're filming out like a movie. But oh my gosh, yeah, it is so if you like watching the Mortal Kombat cutscenes of the video games, you will love this movie because it's exactly that feeling of watching them be like, oh, what's happening next? I can't wait to play as this character. And you're basically doing it without holding a controller.

SPEAKER_02 39:08

It's so cool. Yeah, and each death is earned, each death is felt. It's like you're like, oh wow, this is this there's not one death in this I feel is a throwaway. There's like things that happen in it where you know when Jax dies, oh my god, you you feel the pain of what's going on in that situation. And and even when Luke Kane dies, it's almost like he doesn't die. Yeah, by the way, guys, Luke Kane dies. Like this movie's got this movie, it takes the chances. Does he though? Well, that's just it.

SPEAKER_00 39:34

But he like he does, but I think it looks like it, but then at the same time, you can make the argument of he just had a r revelation that it's not supposed to be him, so he just flies away.

SPEAKER_02 39:46

Well, he literally says, Lord Raiden told me I wasn't the chosen one.

SPEAKER_03 39:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:50

It's like he kind of knew. Yeah, no, I think that this I think he dies, but I think it's like I think he understood that there was more to death than just dying, and there's things that we don't know yet, which is why we're getting guys. Clearly, we're gonna they want to do a third. Very clearly. This ends with wanting to do a third, and please go watch this because I want a third so darn bad. It is it's it really, yeah, it's interesting. He does die, but he doesn't die, right? Like, yeah, his death is probably the one that makes you go, Oh wow, that was interesting. I feel sad that he died, but it's kind of different. Did he just die or did he not die?

SPEAKER_00 40:20

Like it's your own interpretation, and that won't be answered unless you guys watch this movie and we see a third one.

SPEAKER_02 40:25

And so please do. And what's unique is the deaths, like, yeah, this is this is a universe where if you die, you can still be brought back to life, and they really touch on that in this movie, but it doesn't necessarily mean it's a good thing. You get brought back to life, you know? Yeah, well, there's it you could you could come back as a zombie, like they have in some of the games, and that's not a good person. You know, we could get Luke Kane the next one as a bad guy, you know. It's why Khalau's bad in this.

SPEAKER_00 40:49

That was like that in the video games. That is very accurate. It is so anyone who says, Oh, this is not like the game, watch this movie.

SPEAKER_02 40:56

It is like the game. 100%. In fact, like I told you last night, the one thing I was gonna make sure to tell all you folks out there watching is this now, anyone that says, Well, man, they weren't true to the game, this this movie is 100% true to the game. Yes, there's no none of your I I don't want to hear anyone out there saying, Yeah, it's not like the game. You get out of here. Get out of here. If we get Street Fighters half as good as this, then you got we got great action movies this summer, you know, fantastic. Because in the because this movie really and Carl Urban, guys, Carl Urban does this thing where he does this many times. He did it in Lord of the Rings, he did it as Judge Dread in Dread, he did it as Hank McCoy in Star Trek, and he did it in this movie. Where at first you're almost like, does this guy overact on purpose? Because sometimes he overacts and you're like, Boy, he's cheesy. But then, like, after a few moments, so you're like, oh no, this just that's his magic sauce. Like when you watch him, especially in Star Trek, you're almost like, are you trying too hard? And then you get about 10 minutes into the movie and you're like, oh no, I love this guy. This is completely believable. Oh, yeah, and it's that's Johnny Cages. At first, you're almost like, Boy, I hope he doesn't feel like this the whole time, but he does, and you realize it's exactly what it should be. You know, Carl Urban is an underestimated actor out there. I I know he's a little older, and that's been a big complaint with this, but guys, the second best fight in this movie is between him and Baraka.

SPEAKER_00 42:27

Which is perfect.

SPEAKER_02 42:27

He used it 100%. Yeah, and he uses it himself, understands that very much so. And that that second best fight is between him and Baraka. I love that sequence. Yeah, and I like that Barack is not just some mindless, dumb creature that fights, like it's like a clan. He's like he's like very Viking-like, like he likes him because he's a good fighter, it's so awesome. And yeah, guys, there's some CGI in this, it's a little wacky, but but it's not too distracting.

SPEAKER_00 42:54

I actually liked how they did him. And one thing I'll say about Johnny Cage is I am a massive fan of the Mortal Kombat video games, like really a big massive fan. When the new ones come out, I do play them and everything. I have not liked Johnny Cage in the video games, and I had to look through all the characters. Carl Urban, the moment you see him to the very end, I want more of him. He is a standout character for me of the whole movie. There's a reason why the marketing was pushed for him because he's got something that's this supersedes what the video game character is like, and it is so good. It's so good.

SPEAKER_02 43:29

That's what happens when you have such a good actor. I mean, when he did dread, he literally doesn't take his helmet off the entire movie, and all you see is his nose down. You came and claimed that he did great acting with his eyes in Dread. It's his mannerisms and the way he talked and how he said things and the way he moved is what had to be good in Dread, and it made Dread. It's a I'm gonna do it on one of my things, uh Dark Demension. I know it's not a horror movie, but it's one that needs to be talked about because it is amazing. But yeah, he is just as Johnny Cage. What a uh he's still got. That cockiness about him that it's like, but it's not the same kind of cockiness, it's almost like he has to find it again. To like you need to be cocky in order to win, you know. And I like how they bring Kano back and Kano's twists, and everything he does is selfish, and it's great because he's kind of a good guy this time, but only because he's selfish, it's not because he's a good guy, it's because he sees the what our world, what they would do if they won. And it's just a bunch of what he says, a bunch of poor, sad people with dirt and bones. Yeah, yeah. Because no, I want strippers and cocaine, and I don't want to, I don't want to live that way. I want to live, I want to live the way I lived back on you know on Earth. That's right.

SPEAKER_00 44:34

Kano was a highlight in the first Mortal Kombat movie because of how well his line how funny his lines were and how well delivered they were. And they recognize that and they amped it up in a good way in the second movie. And my I want to say my favorite line of the movie isn't from him, but it's about him with Quan Chi. Yeah, it's not a good thing. Now, Quan Chi, he is so accurate to the video games, it's creepy. It's a good creepy. It's it was unexpected for me as I'm watching the movie. Then it gets to this dark scene, and there he is, and I'm like, oh my gosh, they have him in this movie. I didn't even think they were gonna have him in this movie. That's wild. And he is there. I love how he's turning the the dead, the fallen characters into revenants, and he doesn't make him into a revenant, and he's his exact words. I'm gonna paraphrase because I don't have it completely memorized, only saw it one time, guys. But his words were there's not much there, anyways. Yeah, his soul. There wasn't much of a soul to change.

SPEAKER_01 45:29

There's not that much of a soul to change. I laughed so hard. I'm like, that is so good.

SPEAKER_02 45:36

Especially since Kano was proud of it. He's like, Yeah, that's right. Yeah, that's good. It's me. Yeah, an eye.

SPEAKER_01 45:41

I want an eye. Oh, give me another one to hear.

SPEAKER_00 45:43

He's so fantastic, yeah. And I liked Kano in this movie more in the first movie. It was so good.

SPEAKER_02 45:49

And you know, I Sonia Blade was one of the ones in the first one I was a little iffy about. I love her in this one, she's fantastic. And Katana, what a badass. Like, I'm glad she's the one that killed Shell Khan. Oh, yes. That is a storyline that needed to be seen through, and it was, and I like I like the end where she says, I'm but it's time to show you for who you really are to everybody, and that you're mortal. Yeah, because he's he's been cheating this whole time. And yeah, and don't get me wrong, guys. Shao Kahn is awesome. He is awesome. He is one of the coolest. And Raiden had good moments, and I mean the whole movie, like like I said, it's it it's you know, it's not Shakespeare, it's not perfect, it's not, you know, but it it is good though, and it's and it's a must-see. Like you guys go watch this. We want to see a third one, so yeah, we do. So go watch this movie. I'll I'm gonna be going to the drive-in to see it. Yeah, whatever it's playing with.

unknown 46:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 46:40

I hope it's a double feature with that and uh Street Fighter. That'll be fun because Street Fighter, I think, is gonna do the same thing. I have a feeling.

SPEAKER_00 46:47

Out of one out of ten, ten being the best and one being super, super lame, what would you give Mortal Kombat to?

SPEAKER_02 46:52

See, this is tough because I can't I can't say a nine, because that'd be like saying it's like Shosh ain't good, right? But in its genre, in like what it's for, this movie's an easy, solid six. Like if I had to be practical about it, but uh but here's my problem. This is the issue I have, because it's not perfect, so I can't give it that high of a number. Um, but it is gonna be a rewatchable, and and that's that's where it gets a high number for me. So personally, this is on my giddy nerdy, it's an eight out of ten.

SPEAKER_00 47:24

That was my score.

SPEAKER_02 47:25

Eight out of ten. For a practical movie, guys, yeah, it's a six, okay? It's not the best, but it's not bad either. So, you know, I I try to be very honest about that because it's tough. Because, you know, is it interstellar good? Hell no. You know, it's that's a different kind of realm of movie. This is not that kind of movie. This is not that this is like tremors, guys. This is like something that you're going to just like. It's gonna be a classic, he means. So you better watch it. You yeah, if anything, I gotta be honest with you, it reminds me of the first one, but better. And like if you love the first one because it's nostalgic to you, this one's gonna feel the same way, in my opinion. Just the open credits with the title, the the title cards were like I even said to you out loud, I mean, oh, that looks like the writing from the in the colors theme of the first movie. It's amazing. Like, yeah, it's it really is like it's just timeless, in my opinion. This movie's an easy movie. I'm gonna throw on just just to throw on. It's gonna be an easy watch just to watch any time. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I'm gonna own this, I'm gonna watch it several times. It's gonna be in in that repertoire of movies that I watch a bunch. So uh, yeah, I mean, if I my own personal taste, it's an eight out of ten, but practicality, it's a six, okay?

SPEAKER_00 48:31

So and if there's a character in the first movie or the second movie that dies that was your favorite personal character from the game, don't get too upset about it because they really hint to the very end of this. Let's go bring back all of our friends. So, which means I know that there's this cliche when it comes to superhero movies of no one's ever dead, but in Mortal Kombat, no one is ever truly dead because come on, they can't keep doing the video games and killing your favorite characters the way that it's iconically you kill these characters in the games, without there being a way to revisit them later. And they did and Kung Lao is a great example in this movie how he died in the first one, and then how you see him in the second one. And I can't wait to see how he's gonna be like in the third one. Yeah, I agree. Characters like Sindel, who's one of my personal favorites. I understood they weren't gonna make her front and center because Katana is the more front and center character. I get it. But par me is like, and you see this in the in the movie when she dies, and she dies a gruesome death from Sonia. Really well done, delivered death. And then I I literally looked at Ike and I said, wait a minute, I thought she just died. And they explain to you, they don't just skip over it and make you think like it's a video game, like, oh well, her death didn't matter. They explain to you why she's brought back and her limitations with the mask on at that point of being stitched back together. And so you get to see these characters again if you want to. Yeah. But the only way you're gonna see them again, guys, if you go to the movies, yeah, give them that the box office numbers that they need so they can say, let's green light a third one.

SPEAKER_02 50:04

Yeah, it's smart the way they do that too, because the death, there's there's repercussions to the death. Yeah. To sure they do come back to life, but there it there's more to it than that. Oh yeah. You know, it's like you there's consequences, and and that's that's unique. Kano's the only exception, but they made that kind of a joke, which actually fit though, because you need that kind of a comedy joke in it. Yeah, and it speaks to Kano's character because he's gonna backstab for anybody. You know, he's he's a good he's he's his own, which is what I like about him. He's not on anyone's side, he's out for himself, you know, and it works, you know.

SPEAKER_00 50:36

And that's one of the things that I can't wait if they do a third movie, just to see if any of these revenant characters that died came back as evil, and then they bring them back back. I I don't know. I know in the games they don't really remember the revenant self and all that stuff, but part of me wonders if there's anything there that they do remember, yeah, and it becomes part of them as haunting them of what they could do bad.

SPEAKER_02 50:59

They could make some really unique storylines.

SPEAKER_00 51:01

Great storytelling right there. If they were able to do that and go that extra mile, like with a character like Laura Sindell.

SPEAKER_02 51:07

So Yeah, and you know it's funny you say that. I I actually kind of wanted before you said something a second ago, I want to for a fun little caveat at the end of all this. Uh the superhero thing where in superhero movies nobody really dies. I gotta be honest with you, I I don't know if I agree with that sentiment when it comes down to the MCU. I think that's one thing they've done real well with is people are dead and they're dead. I can't think of them of a character they brought back to life in not in a in a good way. Actually, the only one I can think of they brought back to life isn't even human.

SPEAKER_00 51:36

Oh, Vision?

SPEAKER_02 51:37

Yeah.

unknown 51:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 51:38

Is there who else have they actually brought back to life?

SPEAKER_00 51:40

And to be honest, in all practicality, Vision is a robot. So he never really can die and all that stuff. Like you just bring them back online. There you go.

SPEAKER_02 51:50

So I know Campia says this a lot, and I'm calling you out, John. So put in the comments. He says a lot, you know, the Marvel Universe, which is a fake death universe. I want you to tell me what fake death you're talking about, because I can't think of one right now. Off the top of my head. Uh other than Vision, you know, but it that makes sense because it's a robot. It's robots. But what what deaths are are we talking about in the MCU where they're coming back?

SPEAKER_00 52:17

None. Like even Loki, he didn't technically die when I came. Like he died in Affinity War, but the point of Endgame and the making of a show was that it's a very it's still Loki. He turns into a variant. Yeah, because that Loki died back. Yeah, that Loki's dead. That Loki actually did die. Yeah, the other was all deception. Yep. It doesn't count. Variants don't count, guys, as bring it's we're actually talking about bringing a character back to life.

SPEAKER_02 52:42

Right. And I haven't seen it yet in the NCU. So I challenge you guys, put in the comments, name and leave the TV shows out of it because I maybe that's where I'm missing it. But if you leave the TV shows out of it, I would love you to pick one time they brought a character back to life just because again, because I don't think there is one.

SPEAKER_00 53:00

Even in the TV shows, the only one I would say that comes close to the controversial one is Kingpin, because at the end of Hawkeye, he gets shot by Echo, and then he appears in Echo with a scar, and now you don't really see the scar too much. But it's easy to fix a scar nowadays, guys. Come on. So you just say he survived it. Yeah. That's the thing. They left us so open-ended, anyone you would thought, okay, they're dead, but remember, guys, this is a kingpin. And when we get into our branch point breakdown, there are some things that he does in this episode that no normal guy would be doing. So it makes sense if he could survive a shot to the head.

SPEAKER_02 53:36

Yeah. So I don't know. I just thought that'd be fun to point out. Like, hey, before we call them that, let's realize that this hasn't happened yet. So the only one that's ever happened close enough and he's not really in the movies yet is Xavier, but that was during the X-Men stuff. It wasn't, and that was them fixing that terrible number three movie. So, you know, we just wanted to pretend he didn't die in number three, so just and everyone was fine. Was just that didn't happen. Yeah. You know, but other than that, the MCU has been very true to like their their ending to any characters, in my opinion. They've been very solid and true. You know, you're gonna argue Gomorrah because it no, it's it's not the same Gamora, you know, it's just yeah. It's yeah, okay. You I guess the argument is see, they still don't get rid of them, but that's but it's part of the story and it fits because it's not the same Gamora. It's not the same, you know, of the city.

SPEAKER_00 54:24

Now, if they if they did Guardians of the Galaxy Volume 3 and they kept the continuity of Gomorra that you saw in Infinity War with Guardians 3 on everything is the same with their love story together, you can say, yes, they brought a character back from the dead type thing because it wouldn't make sense.

SPEAKER_02 54:40

But if they didn't, they actually went the opposite way and made sure she made it clear to him this isn't happening.

SPEAKER_00 54:44

That I am yeah, that was his whole point in the movie. Yeah, in that one is dealing with a ignored Gomora.

SPEAKER_02 54:50

Yeah, exactly. So I don't know, just challenge you all. So let's let's hear it.

SPEAKER_00 54:54

All right, guys. Question is for you. Did you watch Mortal Kombat 2 yet? What are you waiting for if you haven't watched Mortal Kombat 2? We want you to go watch it, come back to this episode that we're doing. Go watch it again. Yeah, go watch it again, comment, tell us what your reviews are, tell us what your score will be one to ten on the movie. Be honest about it, get the conversation going, and most importantly, go see it so we can see more. Yeah. All right, get over here. I'm just kidding. So that that's that's how we should introduce our next segment, guys. We're gonna get into the rumor mill rundown. Get over here.

SPEAKER_02 55:34

All right, guys, welcome to the rumor mill rundown. This is where we're gonna take some rumors that we found and heard on the internets and go ahead and talk about them and kind of throw some speculation out there and have fun. Because, hey, man, if there's nothing to do with Marvel that's more fun, it's definitely speculation, right? So I'm gonna start her off with our first rumor here, okay? Uh Joe Russo, one of the co-directors of Doomsday and Secret Wars, recently stated in an interview on one hand, quote unquote, audiences want to be surprised. On the other hand, it can become a little over policed. End quote. When reacting to potential Doomsday spoilers, are spoilers important to stay clear of or okay for you? That's a good question and a complex question. Don't you take it away, Sam? How do you feel about spoilers? And especially when it comes down to I think we should probably stick it to the Marvel stuff the best we can, but curious.

SPEAKER_00 56:27

Yeah. Yeah, of course. Yeah, just mainly just to the Marvel stuff we're here. Um I think that that's one of the t the things we're gonna be tackling for the the next like six, seven months now as we're waiting for Doomsday, is potential spoilers. Because we're gonna hear that's part of the reason why we have the rumor rundown, guys, is because we're gonna hear fan theories, we're gonna hear opinions, we're gonna hear supposed leaks, whether they actually come true or not. Technically speaking, they could be a spoiler when you watch the movie and you're like, oh, I already saw that leak, and you didn't realize it was an actual leak. They're bound to happen, especially in the the industry that we're in and the the space that we're in for this stuff. I this is the best way that I can say it for myself. One of my favorite movies of all time, of all time, X-Men Apocalypse. A couple days before the movie came out, I did a quick Google search just to look up some of the characters that were in the movie, just to see what was already released type thing. And I ended up not intentionally stumbling upon the whole story of the apocalypse movie. And as soon as I was reading it and I got to a certain part and I thought, wait a minute, no, this is the movie. This isn't like I'm l not looking up a character to see if if this one's in it or not. This is this is the actual movie. And I stopped I stopped reading it because I thought I don't want to be spoiled for this movie. And then when I went to see it, and I actually on watching all the scenes that I read, it didn't spoil it for me. I still thoroughly enjoyed that experience of watching Apocalypse and not feeling like I was spoiled, quote unquote, with seeing it. Because I think that's one thing that we hear some people who talk about doomsday in particular and things like that. Whatever they've read on paper or what's told to them is actually happening in the scene or the whole story or things like that. There is a difference when you're told it verbally or you're reading it on your computer, and then you actually experience it. And at times when you experience it, you can forget what the you actually read because you're in the moment of what's happening. So for me personally, I'm not gonna actively go out there just to look for spoilers because I want to be spoiled before I see the movie. I'm not gonna do that, guys. Um but it doesn't ruin the experience for me personally. I I when he says on here, on one hand, audiences want to be surprised, on the other hand, it becomes a little over policed. I think they're just referring to um how far do they as a company or they as creative writers go with putting blocks online for people to talk about it? Because the freest publicity you could get for your movie guys is when people talk. And if something does get leaked out, unfortunately, because they do the best they can to keep that lid down, um it it automatically provides free publicity for them. So don't over police it to the point where you're now being shadow banned online or outright being band banned because you accidentally said, Oh, hey, Steve Rogers is red in this movie, you know, yeah, something crazy, you know. But at the same time, it's just I think it's just for you as an audience, how much self-control do you have? How if you know it affects you, then don't go and tap on those videos, don't scroll on that page on Facebook, you know, things like that. That's just part of your self-control. So I I that's my two cents on the spoiler part.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:12

Yeah, we're similar because getting into this realm of doing podcasts and listening to a lot of podcasts, I can't talk crap about people that spoil. We just got done spoiling Mortal Kombat 2. So I don't want to contradict myself, you know. Um what I will tell you though is you know yourself. So the message I have to people when it comes down to this is similar to what he's saying. Is what here's what I expect. I expect Joan Anthony Russo to not tell me what's gonna happen in the movie. I don't want Marvel to tell me. I don't want to see a trailer that shows me everything.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:48

But if you are someone that has seen this movie already and it's come out and you can and you do a spoiler review, then more power to you. It's up to me to watch your show or not. I don't want the people making the movie to spoil the movie for me because to me it'd be why are you making this then, you know? I personally know myself. I understand what movies are gonna be worth spoiling or not, you know. Um when I when Infinity War came out, I didn't want to know anything because I knew it was a big deal. So I just knew that if I knew what was gonna happen in Infinity War, then I probably might not like the experience as much, you know. So I'm not gonna do it. A movie like F1, I don't want to know who wins the race at the end, you know, it would take away from the emotion of the movie if I knew that. But I know that for myself. If you don't care who wins at the end. Or good example. If I want if I read a spoiler on Ant-Man Quantumania, I don't care. There's not a lot in Ant Man that's gonna happen that's gonna make me think, oh, that just changed my entire perspective. Because if you read Ant-Man Quantumania, you're like, oh wow, that would be interesting to see what that looks like. So then, yeah, I'm so I am right in the middle, guys. When it comes down to spoilers, I don't think that you should police, you know, channels like ours or other people that talk spoilers about things. Um, I don't want the companies also telling us what's happening in their movie. I would like them to continue to be secret about it because that keeps that secret alive. And then you make the choice on what is worth a spoil to you. Because some people could care, I could care less if you spoil Star Wars to me. There's not a lot of things that happen in Star Wars that make me go, holy cow, I can't believe what I just saw. You could tell me all of it, I'll still watch it, I probably still like it. You know, whatever it is, I might like it. Um, you know, take a movie like seven, though, don't tell me the ending is seven, because the whole idea is to get to that last two minutes. And when you get to that last two minutes, it puts perspective over the whole film. So, but I know myself. If I'm gonna watch a murder mystery movie, I don't want to know who the killer is because I want to go on that journey. So I'm gonna not watch the spoilers or not pay attention to where the spoilers are. The things I would like to see change is maybe the algorithms on our computers and stuff could be a little more sensitive to that. That'd be kind of nice. You know, because sometimes, because we look up a lot of Marvel stuff, sometimes we pull up a thing and this spoils in the title card, it spoils it. And it's like, wait a minute. Yeah, you guys could at least be a little more, you know, let's let's let's be a little more discreet about that. Yeah, be a little more discreet, is all I that'd be my only change I'd have to when it comes down to spoilers is don't put the spoiler as your thumbnail. You know, it's like don't make it so I I'm I can't I'm saturated in your spoiling. Just say, I'm gonna spoil this. So if you don't want to watch this because you don't want to be spoiled, then don't watch it. And I'll make that decision personally and not hold it against you that you did it. That's that's all I ask is be discreet, but spoil away. You know, because there's people out there that like Sam, he was fine with that. And in X, that X-Men movie particularly probably wouldn't have spoiled much for me, to be honest with you. Um, I probably would have enjoyed that that much, but I gotta tell you, when she comes out as a Phoenix at the end and I didn't know it was coming, boy, that was worth it.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:59

It was. I I'll be honest, and thankfully I didn't get that far when I was reading time.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:04

So you got to you got to at least get that part. There are certain things that happen, you know, Sano snapping. There's a lot I think if I'd have known Iron Man was gonna die at the end, I don't know if if I'm not saying Finny World isn't good or or uh Endgame isn't good because I already knew going in, it still would have been amazing, it's still be the same movie it is. But the emotional moment and the experience was worth it. But see, that's because I know to me that's worth it. So, yeah, guys, just if you don't care who the killer is in screen 59, then just let someone spoil it for you. If you do care, then just don't read the spoilers, don't watch the spoilers. It's don't leave that discretion up to everyone else to decide for you. You need to make that decision for yourself. I think he's correct. Um, over police, I don't want to silence people for it, but I just ask that people that do spoil to have discretion. And and like he said, yes, I personally like being surprised. I like movies that surprise me. Yeah, you know, but I know what movies are gonna, I know what uh going into a movie I know, you know. To be honest with you, I don't think if someone told me what happens in Spider-Man, I would I would read a spoiler of Spider-Man right now. If someone gave me the script said this is a movie you're gonna see, I'd read it and still go see the movie. Yeah. But if you handed me a doomsday one, I mean I'm gonna wait. I want to see it in the movie. Exactly. Because I feel like something in that movie is gonna be worth waiting to see and having that emotional moment. I think you just make those decisions, right? Make those decisions yourself, people. Don't don't be mad at people. Like, don't be mad at us because we just told you what happened in Mortal Kombat 2. We blatantly told you, you know, 30 seconds before we said it that it's a spoiler, skip this if you don't want to know. Yeah. You know? Yeah. And we're gonna make sure it even says spoiler alert on our thing when when we do the editing.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:49

Yeah. And even then, guys, that that movie is already out. It's not like we're reviewing sp Mortal Kombat for you because we did one of those surprise, you got a test screen at a month ago. That's the stuff. When when it gets to a Marvel movie, for myself personally, I turn off my social media when it gets to about a week to two weeks prior to. Right. Yeah. I know for doing and hosting this podcast, it's going to be a little hard because we still got to put on a show for you up until the moment it comes out. But I do the best I can. There is a lot of movies that we're getting close to endgame. I turned off my phone. Yeah. And I, if people need to get a hold of me, I got other numbers you can be able to get a hold of me on. You don't need to get on my cell phone. So for like three or four days, as I'm waiting for that midnight release, because we're seeing the first thing we can see it, first time we can see it. I purposely don't turn off, turn on my Facebook. I delete my Facebook app and then I reinstall it after I see the movie because at that point I've seen it. I don't care. I love seeing the reactions afterwards on the screen. Exactly. But like that's it's like I said earlier, it's all part of your personal um discretion and self-control.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:54

And I mean you did you did not spoil Titanic, right? When you went and watched Titanic, you knew the boat's gonna sink. The boat sinks. Every time I watch it, it does. You'd think they'd learn. No, I'm spoiled. I'm just kidding. I've watched the movie 15 times, all 15 times to make the same decision. I don't get it. Jack never gets saved. Spoiler alert. Jack dies. Oh man. Come on, guys. We'll get into that. We're hoping to do that with our mother on here sometime, talk Titanic. I have a hot take on that that I don't think Rose would have been happy with either of those men. And Jack kind of needed to die. So we'll go from there. Oh yeah. Anyway, so yeah, but for the spoiler thing, but yeah, the boat sinks every time, guys. It's like when you went to watch the movie, you knew it was the boat sinks. So are you getting too spoiled in a movie like that? No, you know, but at your own discretion. You know, it's you know what you want to see, you know what you want to surprise you. If you want to go into a horror movie and not know what's going on, then go into a horror movie and not know what's going on. If you don't if you don't care, then then don't care. Just don't hold anyone else responsible for it, is all.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:07

But I think for like the only thing that I'm gonna say about this uh rumor before we get on to the next one, is that uh to a point that you made earlier, Ike, and I even made it too earlier, uh, when a studio goes so far as to blacklist or push against an account and things like that, because they do it. First off, guys, these studios design the whole thing of this movie, the production of this movie around no leaks. Unfortunately, not every person when you have like 50,000 people on the movie is gonna keep their mouth shut. And if someone does, then there are actual contractual consequences to that. Disney takes care of that stuff, we get it. But when it's when you're just an average YouTuber or someone like us is just talking about the movie because it's in the rumor mill rundown type situation online, then don't shadow ban us. Don't don't block us, don't turn us off, don't send us a cease and desist letter. Right. Like we're just if you never let it get out in the beginning, we wouldn't be talking about it. So that's part of you do the preemptive part there. And if something gets leaked, something gets leaked. We're not gonna be the only channel you can't stop us all from talking about it. That's right. And so and when we've seen what happens like during the COVID period, when you try to get the mass amount of people to stop talking about something, whatever the topic is, you see the backlash to get there. We have freedom of speech, we're gonna use it.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:34

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:35

So uh yeah, that's just that's just my thought on that, guys. That um we and a lot of studios, by the way, when they have specific critics, people like um Grace Randolph, she has the press releases where she's or the press passes, she can go and view a movie or see a TV show at home a week in advance to do her notes, get the prep done so she can when the review embargo lifts, she can then launch her video and have it all done for you. That stuff, that's why movie studios put review embargoes on things for the trades and for influencers like that. So as long as they don't abuse that privilege, because you know if she starts releasing the videos even two hours before the review embargo lifts, it's not like she's gonna get consequences as in you're gonna be shadow banned. She just stops getting invited. She just stops getting invited, she stops getting those early premieres. So that's part of her job and her livelihood. She's not gonna do that. So you the professional people out there aren't gonna do that. They're gonna obey what the studios requested. Even Doomsday. I remember that's right when Doomsday came out, there they had big disclaimers out there. Oh, not Doomsday, I'm sorry. Endgame. Uh when Endgame came out, when Endgame came out, they had huge disclaimers. Don't spoil, don't talk about they even did a little play on thing of Thanos will snap you or something a little screen. That's right, I forgot about that. Yeah. And then right before the Spider-Man Far from Home trailer dropped, that's when they said review embargo is lifted. Here's your Spider-Man trailer. And the reason they did that is the Spider-Man trailer went right along with what happened in Endgame. Yep. And so they and they timed that out perfectly for all that, guys. So just obey when they have that stuff, keep it to yourself, say it to your friends in private. Don't just go online and start blasting it out there. Once it starts doing that out there, then throw your two cents in. But don't be the reason things like that are gonna happen. Yep. Agreed. So all right. Uh the next um rumor on our rumor mill rundown. I'll give the intro to this. This is a DC rumor, guys. I think it's the first DC rumor we've done. No, it's not. We did one last week. Yeah. Sorry. We're trickling in DC stuff in our multiverse, yeah, guys. So Supergirl, there are questions online on if it's gonna have a post-credit scene or not. So the runtime has been revealed for Supergirl, clocking in at 110 minutes, which is about 20 minutes shorter than the Superman movie last year. Along with that news, fans are speculating what the post-credit scene will be given the upcoming DC Studios releases such as Clayface and Man of Tomorrow, the latter of which is currently filming as we're speaking. So, uh Ike, why don't you take it away in your thoughts on do you think Supergirl's gonna get a post-credit scene? And if so, what do you think it's gonna be?

SPEAKER_02 1:12:31

So remind me because for some reason my mind is n I'm not remembering.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:38

Did uh Superman have a post-credit scene? I don't think it did. No. No, she showed up in the movie at the end.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:48

Yeah, uh not even at the end. She was in the beginning. Oh, that's right. Yeah, there was that shocked me. I was expecting because I knew she was gonna get a movie, for her to be in the post-credit scene. I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:00

Why don't you double check on that? But because as far as I'm concerned, I'm pretty sure it's not. And if that's the case, guys, unless I'm proven wrong here in a second, Sammy's looking for me. Um, I hope Jane's gun and them decide not to do post-credit scenes with the DCU.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:14

Personally, I would love for them to not do them. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:19

So, yes, Superman features two post-credit scenes. Darn. So there's a mid-credit scene. It says an adorable brief moment featuring Superman sitting and hugging his dog crypto on the moon.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:31

Oh, that's right. That's right, that's right.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:33

And then the post-credit scene is a humorous scene showing Superman and Mr. Terrific observing a damaged, crooked building in Metropolis, providing a light-hearted um banter rather than a major tease. So if they're they're throwaway C's, guys. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:50

I think if it were me, I'd do away with post-credit scenes in the DCU. I would just start adding tagging things in the movie to make you go, whoa, whoa, whoa, that's cool, and let that be part of it, you know. Um, but I obviously there's gonna be post-credit scenes. Maybe we'll be lucky and they'll get I'll get like a medium ground here. Maybe his post-credit scenes are always gonna be non-consequential to what's going forward and just be part of like whatever little silliness of the movie they want to, you know, something they want to just tag into the movie. Personally, I hope that's what they do. You know, I don't want them to get too saturated and getting you too excited for what's next. Only because I like his mentality right now. And his mentality is if the script's ready and things are ready, we'll move forward. And if it then we'll fit it, we'll make, we'll we're gonna he's making his storyline of the DCU as the scripts are ready and sound good. So he's kind of forming it and molding it like he's making a pot out of clay. And I kind of like that feeling that there's it's like I have an idea he has an idea of where he wants to go, but I like that he's not gonna force it to go there if it's not ready to get there. So I'd I'd rather not get a post-credit scene of a promise that isn't ready yet, and then we wait years like Thanos' brother or whatever the heck it is, was his brother's son.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:12

Uh no, it's his brother.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:14

Yeah, we got a post-credit scene of Thanos' son. Do you guys even remember that? It's an epic post Harry Styles, right? I mean, I think it'd be cool to see what that all means, but who remembers that though? Like, there's some things they've done with the MCU post-credit stuff where you're kind of like, maybe you just forget about that. And that feels like one of those that they're just gonna kind of never bring up again, you know. Maybe, maybe not, but like they haven't yet, you know. So why to me it's like I'd rather have post-credit scenes be just an extension of what we just watched for a little kind of gimmicky fun thing, or go full MCU and be ready though for it, you know. And I think I like I think James is in the middle. I think he's got a goal, but I think he's molding it as it goes. So I don't want the post-credit scenes to feel forced. So to answer the question, though, yes, it's gonna get a post-credit scene. Now, if Superman didn't have one, and I was and I remembered it, obviously I remembered it wrong, but if it didn't have one, I'd say no, because I think they'd be great. I would love it if they didn't. Um, not that I don't like post-credit scenes, but I think that would be a cool, their own, you know, their own little way of doing it. But yeah, in the runtime don't mean much to me. You know, 20 minutes is I mean, 20 minutes is that's kind of a long time, but it kind of reminds me of this movie's gonna be kind of short and sweet, I think. I think this is gonna be a good, like, you know, this a quick little one-two punch. Here's this character. So now when you see her again, we don't gotta talk about a lot of stuff. We can just have her there and it makes sense. Um, I think the movie's gonna make a lot because Superman made a lot. And I don't think this, I don't think this would have been the second movie if Superman didn't make a lot, to be honest with you. But that's just my opinion.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:48

I think they already started filming Supergirl when they released Superman, which I will I personally was a little surprised that they picked Supergirl as the second DCU movie. And I only say that no offense to Supergirl fans. Um, but she's not one of those A-level characters, right? She uh she's and she has her own story. Um yes, so I'm not gonna dilute that at all. Just like how She-Hulk has her own story, but let's face it, She-Hulk compares a Hulk, he's A, she's B. You know, Supergirl, I think just like what Stan Lee did a long time ago. Reason why we have She-Hulk is let's trademark the name so no one else takes it. And so I and I don't know that for Supergirl. Like I said, I'm not too much into the DC stuff, but I wouldn't be surprised if initially Supergirl was made to trademark the name and then they fleshed out her character later and gave her a really cool backstory. And she does have a cool backstory, but um yeah, I'm just surprised that that's their pick for the second movie of their DCU when they have all these huge A-listers that could do.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:59

You know, you know, it's funny, I I'm surprised, but I'm also not. I think we need to prepare, you need any DC hardcore DC fans out there need to prepare yourself. That I think uh even though we got Man of Steel first in Zack Snyder's DCU stuff, it was still a very Batman-centric Justice League where Batman took center stage. Once you got the Batman versus Superman and on, it was like Superman was just another character in Batman's repertoire of in moving forward. I think in his this DCU, it's gonna be very Superman centric, which means you're gonna get more stories of Superman, his cousin, and all this stuff, and Batman's gonna be more of that side character than usual. Not saying he's not gonna have a big part, and he's not gonna be huge, and his movie isn't gonna be about him when it comes, but it's just going to be when you're gonna be through the guise of Superman though, in this DCU compared to we were more of through the guise of Batman in Zack Snyder's. Because we did get the Man of Steel first, but once Batman shows up on the scene, he kind of took over. He was the driving force for the rest of his storyline that he told. But I think Superman's gonna be the driving force moving through this whole thing, which is kind of I'm a little pooped about that because Superman's like blah. But at the same time, if it's good, oh I'm there for it if it's good.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:24

I see that to your point because no offense to Superman, but Batman is more popular than Superman. There's a reason why the Batman hardly has a failed movie himself. Um and he just keeps growing and growing in people's excitement. Whenever you announce Batman, oh, it's Batman, because everyone knows what they're getting for Batman. Yeah. But one of the things I admire about the Justice League cartoon, the animated show, is that Batman wasn't front and center, it was Superman that was front and center, and other the other Justice League characters and how they played along with each other. And Batman was just kind of there. And then when the going got tough and something special needed to happen, Batman was the one who saved the day because let's face it, guys, he knows all Justice League.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:06

Yeah, with prep time, Batman beats everybody.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:08

Everybody.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:09

Everybody. There's not one person that would win.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:12

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:13

He he meets you, he sees what you are, he finds out your weakness, you're done. Batman beats Galactus. Guys, I'm telling you, he just will figure it out. How? I don't know. Batman. He's Batman. Yeah, he's he's Batman. You put him and Iron Man together, and there's nobody can stop him. Yeah. Oh gosh. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:30

So um my my thought for this is I agree with you. When it comes to post-credit scenes, they either serve two purposes. One, they're they're kind of like a gag reel, like a oh, that's cool type thing, and it's funny or whatever. Just, you know, thank you for saying after the credits, we're gonna give you something to laugh about. Right. Or it is leading up to something that they're planning on in the future. That's what Marvel has excelled at to a degree, is the latter of the two. But even in all James Gunn's Marvel movies, they've mostly been gag reels type thing, which is cool. It's fun to see. Um, I wouldn't be surprised personally for myself that, and it all depends. This is gonna give us a good idea of how James Gunn is managing DC Studios and what his vision is. He wants to see the studio go forward because just like Kevin Feige, James Gunn's gonna be the one that's gonna be the end all be all when it comes to what's going in the movie and what's not going into the movie. Right. It'll be interesting to see if Supergirl has a post if they have a post-credit scene on Supergirl that is of the Man of Tomorrow set, then that will tell me, okay, he's not just throwing in there just to push the story, he's throwing it in there an Easter egg saying, This is a done script, we already started filming, and we're just gonna give you just one little tease of it at the end of that. Because other than Clayface, which I do believe Clayface is a standalone thing, I don't think we're gonna get a clayface post-credit scene in supergirl. That'd be kind of weird too. No, it'd be it'd be yeah, I think it's like it's a niche thing that we're gonna see if it makes it type thing, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:04

Clayface will see him multiple times through the Batman stories, but he's only gonna get one movie.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:08

Yeah, yeah, I agree with that. Yeah. So um I I do think there's gonna be a post-credit scene. I just don't know what to expect for it. Yeah. And my expectations aren't really high because Supergirl's not that big on my radar, personally, guys. Yeah, it's tough, man.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:25

Like it's starting out with my least favorite characters. Yeah, you know what's I give them a lot of credit, but it's I like this last one.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:31

It wasn't bad. I like the CW Supergirl show, the the first two seasons. I liked it. After that, I got too political and I couldn't watch it.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:40

The last Superman show I ever watched was the Dean King one. Uh Superman and Lois, right? Yeah. Yeah. And it's that's it's awful. But it's like but that's the only one I liked. Like because I was young and it was it was Superman, like, I don't know. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:54

Well, that's one of my problems with Superman personally, is that he is great storytelling, but he there's no relatability to him because it really is supposed to be he's this god among us men, and whatever he thinks and decides is either gonna make us or break us. And so that that stuff for me is hard to translate for your general audience and say how much you like him.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:15

But I think James succeeded though in making him open and relatable, more personable. I agree. I I think David Korn's sweat is doing a great job at teetering that line of, you know, he's not the Henry Cavill too too much stoic, you know, but just enough. You know, and I do like Henry Cavill as Superman, though. I really do. It's so good. Um but but to me, that is the Superman I despise because it's just oh my god, you just it's always just about the power, you know, and that's why the Zack Snyder version kind of bugged me because it was 90 minutes of Man of Steel was just action and power. And it's like, okay, I get it, but that's what that's for me, that's what made it boring. Not that it's a bad movie. I I understand it's got its things and it's it's a taste thing, but but I do like the new version. And and I I'm curious to see what they do with Supergirl because of it, you know? Um, the trailer looks good. We saw a trailer last night, actually.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:10

Yeah, yeah. I actually was surprised. I'm like, okay, this could be something really cool. Yeah. It doesn't the trailer didn't stick out to me as oh, my excitement for a movie, I want to see it type thing. But that's just because my cup of tea is supergirl. They would have had to blow me away with something really big for me to say, okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:27

What actually blew me away last night is we saw four trailers and all four of them had Jason Momoa in them.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:32

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:34

Supergirl. Yeah. Uh Dune. Dune. And uh maybe it was just three trailers, but all three had Jason Momo in them.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:40

Yeah, and that was only three trailers.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:42

This guy's having a good year. Jason's making some money. He's no. And he's probably gonna be in the next fast and furious 100. So, you know, we'll see how that goes. Extra fast, extra slow, whatever. Whatever they're they're gonna be racing with their little old man go-karts down the street, is what they're gonna be doing.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:59

Okay, so the question is for you when it comes to Supergirl. Um, does the does the runtime worry you, not worry you? Are you excited for that? Do you think it's just gonna be a better story because it's not as long? And do you think that the post-credit scene is gonna be there? Is it not gonna be there? It's gonna be like Superman where there's a post and mid-credit scene, they're just funny, or is it gonna be a little more serious this time and be like, oh, this is what we're gonna do next? The question is for you guys. Let us know in the comments below what you think. Yeah. All right, I guess.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:27

So our last rumor for the rumor rundown, me too. Uh, with Chris Hemsworth's commitment and wanting to go back to do a more serious tone for Thor, while Kevin Feige stating Chris is quote unquote, Chris is in his prime, and he is, dude. Look at Chris. Oh my god. Anyway, those aussies, man. Uh, Chris is in his prime, and we want more Thor. A new rumor speculates Kenneth Brana would love to direct another Thor film and make it as similar to Logan. If this happens, could this be Thor's End?

SPEAKER_00 1:26:04

Who it's not really too much of a rumor, rumor, as Kenneth Brana actually has said this. Yes. So the I guess the more rumor part is could this actually be the next Thor movie be Thor's End? So how do I say this? If you watch our Thor One retrospective, you know I like that movie. But I also think the reason one of the reasons why I liked it is because they played it safe in a good way, in my opinion. Because you're doing origin, you're in the baby MCU, you gotta do it right, and they did it. But the d for the directing style, he did very good at telling the Shakespearean part of things, and it's so funny that Thor fans, I gotta tell you, I'm a little disappointed in you because and I am a Thor fan, but I am not the reason we're in this mess when it comes to what type of Thor to be with. Oh man, you're so right with you guys. And I'm saying this with love and respect, but also they give you a stern talking to what's wrong with you if you don't like the Thor that's too serious, and then you get the silly Thor, and then you're done with that Thor, and you want more serious again. Pick man. Yeah. Yes, Chris Hemsworth can do both, but you can't have both. You gotta have one or the other or soft balance of it. And it's so I'm a little disappointed in you guys. But, anyways, when it comes to this, it does go in coincide with Chris Hemsworth wanted to be a little more of a um more serious tone. And I actually think the Russo Brothers do him really well in Infinity War and Endgame and what we've seen of Doomsday so far, he is the Thor that I liked. We're about to do our retrospective on Thor the Dark World, guys, and I know that a lot of people give this the lowest rating of all the Thor movies for some reason. But this is my favorite Thor in the MCU and I'm gonna hold to that. But um This Alright, well let me I'm gonna have you give your two cents because I definitely want to close on this guy because I have I have some thoughts brewing in my head.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:18

So here's here's I got two thoughts of this. I don't want Thor to go anywhere. I think he's awesome, so I don't want it to end. But if we're going to get an ending to Thor and it's gonna be Logan-esque, please give us that movie. I want it. I'm for it. I would love a Thor that is the Thor of Thor Ragnarok feeling, which who happens to be my favorite Thor. I think I think Ragnarok to Endgame is the perfect Thor personally, you know, because you got that little bit of silliness, but then in Infinity War and Endgame, I mean, I thought Endgame was a swing and it hit so well. I know a lot of people out there don't care for it. I think it's perfect when he's full-on Viking Thor at the end, where he's just like, oh my god, that's a yes. Give me a movie of him getting older, tromping through the nine realms, doing something that he's got to give his life for, where he is just super badass and he's an older, more wiser Thor that you know, and and and still has that sense of humor because of all the different people he's mixed himself up with. I like the amalgamation of we get Thor and Thor One, where he is just a Shakespearean little brat kid to even even in this one, he's kind of got that same feel. And then in you know, Ragnarok, he's kind of put on his butt a little bit. And then by the by the time you get to endgame, you got a thorough that's been through some stuff, man. And he's and he's like at Zen, you know, he's like, All right, you know, I don't know who I'm supposed to be. I know I'm not gonna be king, I'm now not gonna be this. I'm just gonna I'm just gonna sit here and just try to figure this stuff out. And then you know, then now we're gonna have a thor that's you know that knows that there's a big threat coming in doomsday. I want all of that to be mixed into a giant bowl, hand it to Kenneth Braunna, and say, listen, you're a good director. You did a great job with that first movie. Take chances this time and have and really and really go for the swing. Personally, I don't think it's gonna be Kenneth that's gonna have say in exactly the story, anyways. Give him a good writer and he will make a good movie. You know, I I Kenneth Brown isn't the reason why Thora One was played safe. You know, it he was a director that played it safe for them. But they gave him the story. Yeah, and he did it, and he did it his way. And sure he had he probably had some say. I'm not I don't want to take it away from Kenneth. I'm sure he had a lot of say. But now we've gotten to a point in the MCU where you can do just do something wild, it's fine. Have a good time with it, but bring it down to like this really core, like Logan-esque kind of feel. Oh my gosh, like I am in, man. Like, bring it. I am in 100% for that. And I would love to see it. And if we're gonna end sore, that's kind of how I want, because you guys all know how Logan turned out. I mean, please, it's it's phenomenal. It's phenomenal, right? It's it's it's amazing. And I mean even bringing him back, they didn't disgrace that one at all. I mean, it was a good joke in the beginning of Deadpool and Wolverine, but it didn't matter. You you didn't it it wasn't the same guy anyway, still, so it's fine. But yeah, personally, guys, I want this movie. I want this to happen. I don't want it to happen now, though.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:31

Yeah, I don't want it to be Thor 5.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:35

Well, I might argue to say I want it to be Thor 5, but I don't I want Thor to be in other things before he gets to Thor 5. I wouldn't mind if Thor ushers in through the next phase, and then we get a final Thor five after a couple years and say, okay, see you later, Thor. Bye as you go. I'd I I think to what you were just talking about a few seconds ago, a Thor five that isn't his ending is just gonna divide the fans more because they're either gonna be too silly or not silly enough and they're gonna have a problem with it. Yep. And they're gonna want the serious in it because he's done. So a Thor five, I think, puts it a Thor five that's not his ending guarantees a Logan-style ending to Thor won't happen. My opinion. That's just my opinion. I think Thor needs to show up in several movies. I think he needs to do this next two Avengers movies he's gonna be in. I think he needs to usher in the young Avengers. I think he'd be a really cool older character from the Avengers to be someone that helps them as young Avengers, and he shows up in a couple of their things, and then we give a good goodbye to him. In in his last solo movie should be his end. Because I think if we do another solo movie before we get a solo ending movie, they're not no one's gonna go for it. I think they're all gonna crap on it because that's look what's happening. It's happening right now. If they went too serious, you know what they'd say. If they did the same thing they did in Love and Thunder, you know what they'd say. No. I I I I really think that that's that's true, to be honest with you.

SPEAKER_00 1:33:16

There there is for me, there is so much Thor lore that has not been touched in the MCU. Yeah, that that is my personal reason for saying I don't think Thor 5 should be the last film. I get I get a complete. Even if it was like a three-hour epic. Yeah. Yeah. There there are certain Thor-related characters that can make a huge cinematic splash that you wouldn't want to overcrowd the movie in a three-hour epic with those characters, but you also don't want to not introduce those characters in a movie. That I could think of three or four characters on the top of my head that we haven't even seen in the Thor lore that I would love for them to introduce in some fashion. And the only way to do it is through a Thor movie. And I think that establishing those characters and then giving them as side type characters in a send-off for Thor would be in this type of way. I agree with you. If you do a Thor five and it's not an ending for Thor, you're gonna have fans 50-50 that's gonna be like, We didn't like the serious Thor, but now you went back to it because the people that didn't like Silly Thor didn't want it, and then vice versa. That's the one thing I want to say. If I could like take all the fans and put them in a bottle like this and shake them to say, hey, leave it alone because Thor is he's all he's okay. If Chris wants to do his humorous part of Thor, let him do it. You guys loved it in Ragnarok, and Love and Thunder is just a sequel to it's the same, it's the same thing. I don't want to hear anyone say, Oh, they're too much. And I agree, there are some points in Love and Thunder that I thought they pushed the funny too much. There are a couple scenes that would have dialed it back, but the the main overall arc of Thor, the continuity-wise, for the the funniness from the non-seriousness from Ragnarok to Love and Thunder, I I'm sorry, I think that you were asking for when you got when you got it. You gave such praise to Ragnarok, and then when they made the sequel to it, i yes, some of the funny is warranted to say you went too far of it, you shouldn't have done that. But also, you can't say that the whole movie is just stupid because of it, because there are really good things in that movie. But, anyways, we'll get to that when we get to that, guys. For my take on Thor, I want to see this version of a Kenneth Braun directed Logan-style Thor. I think would be epic, I think would be cool. I would love to see that. But one of the things I'm personally doing, guys, for the channel is I've been trying to develop my uh mirror dimension uh sideshow, kind of like Ike's done his dark dimension. I'm having a couple stumbling blocks in it because I'm trying not to make it a retrospective review, but one of the reasons why I'm doing them is because I like pitching to you guys. These are my thoughts on uh uh Eternals 2, the reason why we should get it. That was something I was playing around with recently, and I'm gonna do that that one for you guys without making it a retrospective on the Eternals movie. I just have to nail it just right. But one of the episodes I'm actually developing is how can we do a Thor 5 and a Thor six and how I would like to see him progress from there. And so I will be doing one of those episodes, and maybe I'll do it as a two-parter. Here's my Thor five, then stay tuned for my Thor Six type thing and let's see what you guys think about it because I want to hear all your feedback and Marvel, if you like anything I'm saying, you know or the reach me. But anyways, um, I don't want this to be his last movie, Thor five, but I do want to see this Kenneth Browner version of a Logan style Thor. I agree. I think that would be epic. I agree. I think if you do a similar style to the endgame of Thor with a long beard and the long hair, just maybe not as big because he's not going through a depression that time, he's just older. Look at Logan. He was older, an older acting, but he still had those muscles, he still had that thing. Just so we'll get me a good silver age daddy type of Thor.

SPEAKER_02 1:37:23

And I just think the fans are working against you.

SPEAKER_00 1:37:27

Do what Vikings do, pillage all throughout the nine realms. I think that'd be awesome.

SPEAKER_02 1:37:30

Yeah. I just think the fans are working against you. I think every time they make a Thor movie that's not his end, he's another split, and it's a less chance of giving the money to make that Logan movie. I'm I'm with you. I agree with you. I think there's a lot you could tell. Yeah, there's because I still want to see Tika Watiti do his trilogy, and I want to see him face off against Hercules. I want to see it about what it's like being a father, the relationship between fathers and or kids and their parents. Yeah, because it's kind of like what they already set up, like Hercules and his dad, and then here he is with his daughter. And it'd be a great, I think that Tika does great at making those meta kind of comparisons, and but we're not gonna get it now. We're just not gonna get it. There are authorities. We'll probably never see that character come back.

SPEAKER_00 1:38:13

Like Hercules, I want to see a continuation of what's gonna happen with that story because they already teased it. There's a character like Beta Ray Bill, huge in the Thor mythology, big fan favorite, and actually becomes a character in another um spin-off that Marvel has been rumored to be wanting to be able to do. I'd save him for the Logan one. I I like Beta Ray Bill. They recently just introduced a long-lost sister of Thor and a whole new realm in the comics. The I love this Thor storyline. Um, Angela is her name, and she comes from heaven. Interesting. It's a it's a whole other realm that they Odin wiped away. So they talk about the nine realms. But Odin can be a jerk. Then you find out there's actually ten realms, and then she came from that. I would love to see, honestly, here's a little um sneak peek into my version of Thor Five, a Patty Jenkins directed movie of Thor finding out he has another sister and finding out a whole new realm and the battle between what that would be. That's just a thought that I had. But when we get to my Mirror Dimension episode, I'll have a full detailed synopsis and breakdown and let you guys pick it apart and see what you think. Yeah, like that. But, anyways, that's that's what just what I thought about Thor and this little rumor here. Um, what do you guys think? Do you think that there will be a Thor 5? I think there's gonna be, anyways, but do you think that's gonna be his last film? Do you think there should be more Thor? What is your favorite version of Thor? Let's get the fans to actually talk about and have a good debate in the comment section about which Thor do you like? Do you like the Thor from Thor One, Avengers One, and Thor 2, and Avengers 2, to be honest, the one that's a little more serious, a little more Norse mythology, or do you like the one that's a little more silly acting, like in Ragnarok, Love and Thunder, or do you like the one that has kind of like a mixture of both with Infinity War and Endgame? Comment down below, let us know your thoughts, and what do you think about this topic?

SPEAKER_02 1:40:18

Oh, can you imagine a Thor Logan style movie with him and Loki like a buddy, like two brothers on a mission? Yeah, is this their last mission, their old guys? Yeah, and Loki's at his best where he's now he's good, and Thor's at his best where Loki's actually kind of taming him because he's ready to kill. And man, I can see that movie right up.

SPEAKER_00 1:40:39

Yeah, it would be epic. Honestly, if they did something like this, it will be and I'm gonna predict this. If this stuff happens, if Kenneth Brana actually gets the permission to direct a Logan-style Thor movie and has a script for it and everything, and they execute it similar to how they execute Logan, it will be Thor's first billion-dollar movie. Oh man, 100%. I'm putting money down on that. If that happens, take that to the bank.

SPEAKER_02 1:41:06

All right, what's our next segment? All right, guys. So next we're gonna move on to our branch point breakdown where we discuss Daredevil Born Again, episode eight, season two. Season two, episode eight the finale of this show, which is gonna be an interesting conversation.

SPEAKER_00 1:41:23

It definitely is. It definitely is because there are a little bit of mixed feelings, I think, on both of our ends here on this. Yeah. But stay tuned. All right, guys. Welcome to the branch point breakdown of our Thor 2 retrospective episode. And we are doing our breakdown on the season finale of Daredevil Born Again, season two. So, yeah, what a finale. Yeah. Yeah. There's there's so much for us that we're gonna just dissect and just we're gonna try to talk about each of the characters as they come up. I'm gonna read to you guys, so spoiler warning, if you haven't seen it, I mean at this point, who hasn't seen it, that's why you're watching our show. Excuse me. But um, just in case you haven't seen it, I'm gonna give you a little bit of a breakdown of what uh happened in the episode, and then we're gonna talk about the parts that we want to talk about, really. Alright, so Karen's trial took a wild turn when Mayor Fisk is called to the stand. After a tense legal debate, Matt reveals to the world that he is Daredevil. The court rules the case dismissed on the grounds that there is no impartiality in this established system. Bullseye kills a fake bullseye impersonator, thus sabotaging Fisk's attempt to kill Matt. Everyone is barricaded in the courthouse. Fisk battles New Yorkers to get his way, but it fails, and he agrees to surrender to Matt and takes a plea to clear the to be cleared of the legal system. Matt is arrested. Jessica Jones reunites with her lover Luke Cage. Mr. Charles appears to have recruited Bullseye for the CIA. Yeah. So there I I don't know about you, Ike, but I had definitely a mixed feeling sense of this finale.

SPEAKER_03 1:43:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:43:33

And um I know there's a lot of hype online of this is epic, this is perfect, this is great. And I'm gonna give it its flowers where where it's due on some of that, and actually to some of your predictions that you actually did get right in this episode. It just might not have been the exact way you thought, right, but it still happened. It still was there. So, guys, if you've been watching our show and we kind of gave you a little prediction, we never even saw the show. So we're doing something right. Anyway, so that's right, we're paying attention.

SPEAKER_01 1:44:07

We are paying attention.

SPEAKER_00 1:44:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:44:08

Uh he had to reveal himself.

SPEAKER_01 1:44:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:44:11

He did. It had to be him too. Because if Fisk did it, it meant something different. You know what I mean? The man had to reveal himself. Well, we'll get there. That's yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:44:21

Yeah. All right. So um we'll just start at the very beginning on this. And if there's any characters in particular you want to talk about, maybe ones I didn't even mention on here, then um just jump right in and your two thoughts on it. But Karen's trial takes a wild turn when Mayor Fis is called to the stand. Did you think that was gonna happen? That he was gonna get called to the stand?

SPEAKER_02 1:44:40

You know, um I wouldn't have predicted it, but as the show started, I'm like, oh, this this they're gonna go this direction real quick. I'm surprised this happened this early on in the show. I thought this would be towards the end. You know, I'm I'm well when I say show, I'd be the this episode. I I thought the him being on the stand with this whole legal debate and how that all plays out would have been more of a closer of the show. Um, and I'm I'm glad that they did it in the beginning because that kind of made it like we have a whole other this whole episode to get through with that now. Um yeah, I I mean I like this, I guess. I I get a little tired of Vincent Delfrano's voice as Kingpin.

SPEAKER_01 1:45:22

Oh, I'd personally not do it.

SPEAKER_02 1:45:24

I like it, but sometimes I'm kind of like, yeah, meh meh meh meh okay. But don't get me wrong, he's great. This is probably some of his best stuff in the show, in this in this season, is him on the stand. I like when he's trying to pretend to be good because like we see through and we already know. So I do like I like that he when he speaks, he kind of uses the same mannerisms in no matter what mood or no matter who he's around. So whether he's telling a story to an enemy or telling a story to a friend or trying to convince uh everybody in New York that he's a good guy, he always gives that well when I was a boy kind of story. And I and I enjoy that because it that keeps him it kind of reminds me of the Joker where he's like, you know how I got these scars. But I mean he's always Joker's always using that in bad terms, but he it that shows that this guy is just psychopaths because he just he's gonna use this kind of stuff, you know, in all these angles like that.

SPEAKER_00 1:46:18

That's a very good point you brought up there because he has used that phrase repeatedly throughout the Netflix version of the show in the Disney Plus show. When I was a boy in New York and all this stuff.

SPEAKER_02 1:46:30

And some it's just uh yeah, and the reasons why he uses it are very different.

SPEAKER_00 1:46:33

They're very different. But the I think the main reason he starts off his conversations like that is to try to sound empathetic to the audience that he's talking to. Like when you talk about your childhood, guys, and it's supposed to invoke this vibe of I'm going down a level. You know what I mean? Like I'm not the I'm not the kingpin, I'm not the mayor, I'm just a boy at this point.

SPEAKER_02 1:47:01

Right thing. Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:47:02

And make make you feel like you could sympathize a little bit with him.

SPEAKER_02 1:47:06

Yeah, but it's like his excuse. So no matter what comes out of his mouth next, you can say, well, at least it's because it's when he was a boy. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:47:13

You're right. It's very psychopathic, yeah, very much in doing manipulative, very manipulative to make it make the impression. So that's one of the things about that I like about mayor fisk is that he's continuing the same facade, just trying to do it in the public's eye to win public approval. When it's he actually, it's funny. In the original Netflix show, he tried to run for mayor in the first season, it didn't work, and then you know, all that stuff went down. And um, like he was getting out there in the public eye, I should say, a little bit more in the first season. That's when he met Vanessa, all this different stuff, and it wasn't panning out for him. Then he went to jail in season two. Um, all throughout season two, you only saw him in like one episode. Then season three, he's getting he's manipulating the FBI, which is, I gotta say, still one of my favorite seasons of Daredevil, just so good. Anyways, um, and you you see he is always yearning for the public's acceptance of him, like he is missing that part of his childhood. Yeah, whether it was because he killed his dad, because of he was torturing his mom, so very valid mayor fisk. I actually will give you that props to that. But the problem is it turned you into more of a psychopath than you already were. Right. So probably not a good recipe for you. Um, but it it's he's always seeking this approval from outside sources, and I think that that's been uh a key character development for him, is that that's never really changed. Not really development, but you know, a character um quality for him. It's never changed. I was surprised that it was so early on that they called him in. Yeah. I did think though, it did feel like to me doing that felt like a finale episode though. Oh, yeah. It definitely upped the stakes of you, I didn't even know what was gonna happen. When he says I call mayor fist to the stand, I didn't actually think it was gonna show up. I I part of me was actually thinking, okay, he's gonna do what other politicians do. They ignore subpoena type thing, they're not gonna show up, you know, whatever. He's the mayor, he's he kingpin. But um he did, and I will say some of my favorite scenes of this episode is the dialogue between Man.

SPEAKER_02 1:49:29

Yeah, I like the courtroom banter in this. Oh, yeah, it's what She-Hulk was missing. Yes, you know, we needed more of this stuff.

SPEAKER_00 1:49:37

Not to be a Debbie Downer or say something be like, What are you thinking, Sam? There was one moment in the show where I thought, could Tatiana Muslani show up for a second just to be another person?

SPEAKER_02 1:49:49

Please no.

SPEAKER_00 1:49:51

I mean, the problem is if she did, uh all eyes would be on her turning into the shehawk and all that stuff. So of course they weren't gonna do it. But Parmi is thinking. That's the type of tone I would like to see She-Hulk in. Yeah. This is that's the thing that this Daredevil show and Matt Murdoch's whole storyline, that he and um Jennifer Walters are lawyers. And that's why I love that episode of the She-Hulk when they actually got together. And it's that's the tone I wanted to see of a She-Hulk type show. You can do that. And actually, it would improve it ten times than what we got. Anyways, I do have to say from that.

SPEAKER_02 1:50:30

Yeah, he looks good in the red Daredevil outfit, but his red suit in this does not do him any favors. Oh, I'm sorry. Yeah, it's a little too on the nose, you know, but whatever. That's just me being picky. Picking nits. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:50:46

Well, move on from that. After the tense legal debate that we were talking about there of Matt and Mayor Fisk, Matt reveals to the world that he is Daredevil. Call it. Yeah, not only did I call it, but the anticip if I could speak, the anticipation and the hype and the tenseness within that moment and or within that that part of the episode. Dare I say, this is the I am Iron Man of the new phase.

SPEAKER_02 1:51:17

Yeah, slow down now. Hit the brains.

SPEAKER_00 1:51:20

I know, but come on. For me at least, being a fan of Daredevil and seeing him up until this point.

SPEAKER_02 1:51:26

I'll give you that. Okay, if if this show is speaks to you, it speaks to you way more than it speaks to me. We're we're we are very clear on that. Um, if if you like this character that much, then I'm with you. I see that's your this is Iron Man moment. You gotta understand when he said this is Iron Man, you were like, wait, what? That's true. That this this was like you felt it coming three sentences before it happened. You know, I'll be honest with you. When they called him to the stand and he's sitting there and they're doing this whole thing, I'm like, oh, he's gonna he's gonna do it here. I just wasn't sure what direction they were gonna go. I wasn't sure if it was gonna be him that did it. Mayor Fisk, I say him, sorry guys, we're looking at screen as well. I didn't know if it was gonna be Kingpin that outed him as Daredevil or if he was going to out himself as Daredevil.

SPEAKER_03 1:52:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:52:07

Um, I'm glad he outed himself because to me that's the only way it makes it valid for his point to be a crux in what he was trying to do. But yeah, I'm with you. I wouldn't go as far to say it's the I am Iron Man moment, but I understand your excitement though, and I'm glad you have it because it is a great scene. It is a great moment. It's a big moment for this character because it's the only time, right, in the live action stuff this has happened. Yeah. It's happened in the comics a few times, and in fact, this is taken right out of an iteration of the comics, especially with him at the end, you know. But like, so it's not new to any Daredevil fans that he does this, but it is new to people like me who don't know that much about that stuff, that okay, at least this happened. I like that that did this. To me, that's a good swing and a big swing, and I'm glad they did it, and it needed to, um, regardless of how I feel about the rest of the episode or whether I think this was a a worthy finale to the buildup that we've been getting. That's a different conversation, but like this was a great moment. You know, personally, this should have been a mid-season moment, but that's me. I like things that go big and bold, though, guys. So don't, you know, you can't take my word for all these all the time because sometimes I want bigger. Like to me, this is like bigger. Come on, go bigger, go bigger. I would have done this halfway through this season, and you better quit a bit where we go from here. But that's me. You know, that I'm not saying that makes this bad, but yeah, great scene.

SPEAKER_00 1:53:28

Like, I'm glad he did it. Well, say about that I am daredevil moment. And it it did remind me of the Iron Man moment for a couple of reasons. I told you the hype that I was like, oh man. But anyways, um just like what you said, when Iron Man said it, it made you think, oh, this is new territory. Where do we go from here? And I feel the exact same way for Daredevil because unlike Tony Stark, who is a billionaire and can, you know, do some of these other things, Matt Murdoch is not a billionaire. He's just a New York City lawyer that does a lot more pro bono stuff than anything. And part of me wonders what the story will be now for season three going forward, now that the world does know I am Iron Man. Is he gonna is he gonna call Doctor Strange and make people forget like Spider-Man's lawyer? I don't think so. But um I I am curious now, more so on what season three for Daredevil is gonna look like. And I am a little trepidatious, I will say, about that, because I don't know what story they're gonna tell. I agree. And yes, Fisk is still alive at the end of this episode. I I will be very honest. When we get there, we'll talk a little more in depth. I don't like his ending, but we'll get there. For me, and I'll tell you one of the big reasons why. But we probably agree on this then. Oh boy, oh boy, yeah, but yeah, for for this, for this part of him revealing himself as Daredevil, it was very dramatic. Yep, it was very tense, and that actually helped win the case. That to be honest, it did feel like a huge uphill battle because this is the system that Mayor Fisk put in specifically to make as airtight as possible so people like Karen Page will be put away for a long time. And so this this is one of those I am Spartacus moments type thing where you have to give it your all the best that you can just to prove to the system that this is failing. Yeah. And they succeeded in doing that. So it was a huge swing, but I think it was a necessary swing.

SPEAKER_02 1:55:37

Yeah, I agree, I agree.

SPEAKER_00 1:55:38

And I loved it. Well, as soon as I heard it, I immediately thought of my brother Ike from our last episode, and he said, I predict he's gonna out himself and be like, guess what? He does. Yeah. So that's really cool.

SPEAKER_02 1:55:50

But he's and what a force that Vincent plays as him. Like he's what a big dude. Yeah. You know, it's like, man, look at him. It's a Willy rectangle. Look at the size of that guy.

SPEAKER_01 1:56:01

Wait, look, he seems like uh Willy No Wife.

SPEAKER_02 1:56:10

Yeah. I can't remember what I said last time. Yeah, some Mr. Mr.

SPEAKER_00 1:56:14

Willy, no no wife or whatever, but yeah, go back a couple episodes of our pop podcast, guys. You're gonna hear I give a real.

SPEAKER_02 1:56:21

Yeah, I mean, he is but he's just look at this, look at it. He's just like a giant rectangle. Like he's just a big white rectangle that just says some really mean things.

SPEAKER_00 1:56:30

Like what's funny about that is he actually did look like that when they started the Netflix show because that was what they wanted him to do. Oh, yeah, yeah. And then as he as an actor has gotten older, you start taking his health more seriously. He himself he's not that big. No, he's not, yeah. He's lost a lot of weight. Yeah. And he says that for the show to maintain consistency, he's had to put stuff on. So underneath that suit is a bodysuit. Oh, poor guy that is weighs the same as what he actually weighed. Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_02 1:56:58

From my understanding, so that's why he talks that way. His lungs are being compressed. Yeah. Poor guy. Because when we met him, we met him in Rhode Island. Yeah, we didn't. Remember? He was not, he wasn't a giant rectangle like this. No. Like he was actually kind of, I was like, oh wow. And he and he was an actor that did have like a he did have different weights throughout his career. Um, I think I don't know if he did it on purpose for his roles, excuse me, but he definitely went through different transformations, you know. Yeah. Well, but as he's got older, he looked a lot healthier. He didn't, he wasn't this giant Willy rectangle that we see here.

SPEAKER_00 1:57:33

No, it's what's funny is when we see there are certain angles of him that you see. Like right now, guys, when we're watching it, he's sitting on the stand and they're talking, they're doing their legal debate back and forth. But when he was walking into the courtroom and they had the the camera angle of looking up at him to make him appear larger than life type, yeah, yeah. You can tell the around his jaw and his neckline, he is thinner.

SPEAKER_02 1:57:54

Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_00 1:57:55

Because that is Vincent D'Anafrio. That is him. He actually has lost weight, he has gotten better in his health and things like that. But once you get to his suit onward, he is so block. Yeah, yeah. But it's Kingpin accurate.

SPEAKER_02 1:58:10

Well, yeah, 100%. No complaints. He looks great.

SPEAKER_00 1:58:12

So, anyways, move on from that. The court rules to dismiss uh the case based on the grounds that there is no impartiality in this established system. Which uh honestly, when uh to be honest, I was a little shocked. I kept saying this whole time if they rule in Matt's favor, then those judges are gonna be killed. Oh, yeah, I was expecting something to happen. Yeah, but I was more shocked they didn't get killed. Yeah, me too. Uh because like to me, uh I this is how I feel about this, guys. In reality, there should be impartial jurors, there should be impartial judges to hear the case, base it upon the constitution and the the law at hand, and see if this is legal, not legal, and what they're gonna make the ruling on. That is what happens in real life. But how they've played it up in the show is that Kingpin has kind of propped these three judges up for these particular cases and speed track them. So it's interesting watching this episode, and now you get a little new twist on it that the judges actually do have a backbone to stand up against Mayor Fisk. Because I really thought it was one of those cases where they're in his pocket. Yeah. And this this shows they weren't in his pocket, but it also makes me wonder I'm actually shocked because he has the he has um this task force in his pocket. And I know they make a clear distinction between the NYPD and the task force. You see that clear as day in this episode. But for a while they almost felt like one and the same. Yeah, for sure. So that kind of shocked me a little bit that this this actually is an impartial judge through.

SPEAKER_02 2:00:09

Yeah, you know, it's funny that uh it's almost like they needed to have that little array of hope, though. Because if there's something I say about this show, is you you kind of felt like you couldn't root for Matt because it seemed like everything was always against him when it comes down to the law. So they I think this is part of it that felt cliche to me, is the fact that he is an impartial judge. Because I think in real life it would be the opposite. I think we do live in a time where there's people that are bought and paid for. And when and when I say that, it might not eat might not be financially always, it could just be favors, you know. Ideal. I think we see a lot of corruption in our face right now when it comes down to our governments. And um, we have some some politicians that are doing a good job at weeding it out, and we got some that are making it worse, you know, and it all I mean, we're not gonna get into it, it's not that kind of podcast, guys. But it especially in a local level, though, you know. Like so I'm very surprised that they kind of did it this way, but I they had to have we needed a ray of hope in this, and this this was our ray of hope. So that to me, I'm I'm with you. I'm I come to the same conclusion you do about it, but I'm definitely more surprised the opposite way, though, if that makes any sense.

SPEAKER_00 2:01:29

Yeah, yeah. I guess I was I was taking a look at this. It's kind of like how we how you just described, like, and like he said, this isn't this type of podcast, guys, but this is this is in correlation to what we're seeing in the show, is that there are a lot of judges that either get appointed or elected in and all that based on ideological stance, depending on who's in control and who's in power and all that stuff. So judges are supposed to be partial, right? Is that the word? They're supposed to be impartial. I don't know. Yeah, they're they're supposed to be neutral, is the best way to say it, actually, when it comes to this stuff and just look at the facts and the law and things like that. But do you always get that? Not always, because people's interpretations of the law and the different things like that are subject. That's why we have this checks and bounds in this court system, to be honest. This judicial system in general is to and figure out a way how to interpret the law in a legal standing. And you get, and that's why if you don't like one ruling, you go up the chain of command and ladder all the way to the United States Supreme Court to get an ultimate ruling, and that's just the law of the land type thing. Um, so that's why I expected that in this episode. Gotcha. If you were really gonna mimic what we the unspoken thing of the real world, that would have been more of their in his pocket. But this does, to your point, it gives us and the characters like Matt and Paige, uh, Karen Page, uh a ray of hope that they are impartial, that they are neutral judges.

SPEAKER_02 2:03:04

Yeah, that his corruption only got so far.

SPEAKER_00 2:03:05

It's supposed to be this way type thing.

SPEAKER_02 2:03:07

Yeah, his corruption only got so far.

SPEAKER_00 2:03:09

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I did like how they twisted it though, in the the thing, because what what we've seen of the judges on the show so far is that they're like, well, this is what the law says and this is what we have to rule on, type thing. But when he exposes that not only is Mayor Fisk a bad guy, and he's responsible for the the uh ship coming in and being sunk and that what he's doing on that port and things like that. Um but he that he also says it in a way to the judges that exposes the corruption system the Fisk has put in play, and that the judges in ruling against them are playing into the system the Fisk did. It's almost like trying to put it's almost like Mayor Fisk is trying to put them in his pocket without literally putting them in his pocket type thing. Yeah. And uh Matt Murdoch exposed that element of it, which is what won him the case. Yeah. So yeah. Um, anyways. Uh so uh it I was just shocked at that, I will say. It wasn't horrible at all. Actually, it was like you said, a glimmer of hope that oh, some good stuff can come off the corruption scene. Oh, yeah, for sure. And Harmy really hopes in real life that actually is the case in some of these courtrooms, too. So, anyways, um I I will say because this is during that same scene, and we actually saw it just play out in the background the governor. Oh yeah. This is my least favorite of the governor in this show. Yeah, honestly, she has no purpose being there. And even the only purpose I see is when she walks in and makes it sound like, oh, the governor is here to see what's gonna happen. Be like, she's not doing anything. So I get it. If she was this bigger, more powerful politician there, it would have made more of a statement to me if Julia Louis Dreyfus walked in. To me, that would have upped the stakes in the bigger, broader scope of the MCU than the governor.

SPEAKER_02 2:05:14

It'd have been a good swing. Yeah. No.

SPEAKER_00 2:05:17

I'm sorry, not to take it away from the governor there. Um, just there's no purpose. There was no purpose. And then even as the episode progressed, she just barricades herself to the um to the one office. And even her little speech after the whole trial is done, when she says to the mayor, you better resign and we won't press charges. Parmi is like, press charges for goodness sake. That's one of the things I don't like about this episode. But I'll get to that point when we get to the end of the episode, guys. Um, anyways, so the next part on here is that um bullseye kills a fake bullseye impersonator, thus sabotaging Fisk's attempt to kill a man. Yeah, I don't like this.

SPEAKER_02 2:06:00

Um why I don't like this is I always thought he was just smarter than this. I thought Fisk was smarter than this. You know, like I like that Bullseye did this, but once again, it's another one of those turns of taking this bad guy, and we're just not quite sure if he's a bad guy anymore, you know, and doing something that we obviously don't want, you know, Matt to get killed. But I don't know, I feel like uh that's Kingpin's like ace in the hole was gonna be kill Matt like that, you know. Like, first of all, he wouldn't have killed Matt if Matt didn't come out as Daredevil. And like it was very clear to him while Matt was coming out as Daredevil, that it's almost like, hey, don't go down this road. He kind of says that to him. Like, wait a minute, out of everybody, why are you going down this road? So he had to foresee that see that's my point. Um did I miss this ep did I not see this part of the move of the show? Like, so he had to foresee that so if Matt comes out as Daredevil, I'm gonna have a fake bullseye kill him to help prove the point further past the point he just tried to make. But yet, I'm not gonna know if he does that. So you're gonna have a fake bullseye just on standby? Because he wasn't just gonna kill Matt. If Matt didn't come out as Daredevil, he wouldn't kill Matt because Matt's a hero. Right?

SPEAKER_00 2:07:29

I don't know. I just it gets kind of convoluted to me. This could be part of Fist's continuing propaganda campaign and showing that vigilantes are bad, regardless of what the outcome was. So he was gonna kill Matt, the hero.

SPEAKER_02 2:07:42

And see, there's a bad one. Yeah, that makes sense. I just I didn't get that feeling though. Yeah, I had to think about it. I got this is like a his backup plan, is what it felt like to me.

SPEAKER_00 2:07:51

I had to think about this a lot and uh for this episode and really even re-watch the scene. And even what's playing right now is when he's um after the shooting happens and they're all barricaded now, and Mayor Fisk is giving an address to the the city and all that stuff. I think that all this was pre-planned for Fisk. I don't think that the outcome of the ruling was pre-planned. I think that did shock him that he became I am Daredevil Moment type thing. But I think Matt was gonna die here no matter what. I think no matter what, Matt was gonna die. Okay, to prove a point that even the heroes aren't safe with these vigilantes, therefore we need to. I think you're right. That's probably the best way to keep no offense, but to keep some of these type of laws that uh seem extreme, you need to have extreme reasons why to keep them there. And I think that one of the continuous themes in this season is see, Daredevil did this, that's why vigilantes are bad. See, this this happened here, that's why vigilantes are bad. So I think this is just a continuous and bullseye when the bullseye and the the amazing scene of bullseye killing all those agents in the diner. This is just another continuation uh Vanessa dying, another continuation of we need to see vigilante crime to make the people stay involved with behind Mayor Fisk.

SPEAKER_02 2:09:15

So I think preemptively that was gonna happen either way, but um I think this girl makes his propaganda video like minutes after he does a speech. Like, you guys, someone's gotta get a hold of her. She needs to be someone's producer because that's quick.

SPEAKER_00 2:09:32

She's on it. Yeah, well, also that's that's another disappointing thing I have about this episode, to be honest, is BB. Yeah. I I'm sorry, guys. It's not I get the feeling that they're trying to invoke of a revolution, the people versus the system uprise, and V BB is the media head of it. I get what they're trying to do, but it you know it doesn't come across in reality.

SPEAKER_02 2:10:05

I kinda almost don't want to touch on this because I don't want this to be a political show. So I'm I'm gonna abstain from having something to say about this. I give these writers a lot of I'm not a fan of this notion that they just did with that. Yeah, I'm I'm with you. Despite Fisk being bad and he deserves it and all that stuff. But the last time this happened, people called it an insurrection, and that's all I'm gonna say. And I think that that's a problem that we have with how we identify what these things are.

SPEAKER_00 2:10:39

Which ones we accept and which ones we don't right.

SPEAKER_02 2:10:41

And it's like if you don't know it for sure, then we only know Fisk is bad because they're telling us he's bad, you know, and it's like so her actions, yeah, I don't know. I got mixed feelings. It just doesn't feel right. I wish this finale was more enclosed and not so much of a public display of something. Well, I'll just make any sense. I I agree because where's Spider-Man, by the way? When you don't think that there's a shooting at Town Hall where the the governor is, that someone, you know, that he's not like, wow, what's going on? I'm Spider-Man. Maybe I should show up and help. I'm sorry, guys. That's I'm gonna point that out every single time. But I mean, uh he's not gonna be going to check this out. You know what I mean? This is where he goes, he stops bank robberies, he's gonna go help them at City Hall, right?

SPEAKER_00 2:11:30

Anyways, that's that when brand new day comes up.

SPEAKER_02 2:11:32

Yeah, yeah. But anyways, sorry, I apologize. I just I want to get away from political things, we'll put it on Spider-Man.

SPEAKER_00 2:11:39

Well, one of the things I will say about the point that you're trying to make there, I agree with you on all of that. The only saving grace I would say to maybe semi-rebut it or at least ease your mind about it is if they when Matt included the lines and they include the lines of Matt. Matt saying we're better than this, don't do this to the people for going after Fisk. Oh, yeah, no, great. That wasn't perfect. Great. That it it would have been different if he didn't say that. Right. Then I would have had more of a problem with it. But it's nice to show, hey, even he didn't want this uprising because this is this is between Fisk and Daredevil. This is not between the people and Fisk. And by the way, when we get to that, I actually think that's the Yeah, that's the next part. Let's go right to it. When um Mayor Fisk is, and I'm trying to remember this specifically how he's leaving the courthouse. I think it's not a hallway, right? Like yeah, is it because he wants no, they're calling for him to come out. Yeah. And the people are running in the from the outside. They've run through the the um task force has allowed them to come in and things like that. What a brutal scene of Fisk utterly ripp shaoconning these people up. Willie Rectangle has his day for a few minutes, that's for sure. That's epic, yeah. I will say it that I I'm not saying I love it because I love killing. I love the comic accuracy and the the continuation, the continuity for Fist. That this is what he does. You know, he will beat you down and all that stuff.

SPEAKER_02 2:13:26

This scene is what makes the end though not work for me for him. Yes. Because at what point is it like, sure, you know, just just this and we'll let you go. Wait a second. That there's part there's a guy in this that he threw into a wall that he that guy's never gonna stand up to pee again. You know what I'm saying? Like that guy's done. Like he's he's not walking ever again.

SPEAKER_00 2:13:46

There's people that he's literally crushed their skull in.

SPEAKER_02 2:13:49

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:13:51

Not good. Like like it's that it's brutal how he kills them and great for a cinematic viewing and all that stuff for us to see what the Kingpin does. Yeah, how how New York PD doesn't just shoot him. Like you know what I mean? Like, oh my god, guy. When the governor was offering him this deal to leave, she spoke to her attorney general type thing, and she says, take the deal, resign, and we won't press charges. That's before he decides to commit mass murder on the people who are coming in. Yeah. That's the part when it gets to the end, and I'll just touch upon it right now since we're already talking about that I don't like about this show. Nope. Yeah, I agree. I mean, I I get if you're thinking about Daredevil the show as a whole, I understand when he went into prison after season one, in season two, you see that he's taken over the prison, and season three he corrupts the BFBI. So we know what he is capable of doing in those situations. But the thing is the stuff that he did here is inexcusable to anyone. Yep. It doesn't matter your politics, what deal you're gonna give them, all that stuff. That would be the bigger, and I'm actually shocked that Matt wasn't pushing for this as a lawyer himself that wanted him for the long time to be behind bars. Yeah. Why is he not in the raft? A super prison that's meant to hold the abomination, whether or not he should have been alive.

SPEAKER_02 2:15:15

Well, they didn't have the raft at that time.

SPEAKER_00 2:15:18

Yeah, I mean, but they have it. Yeah, that's they have it now.

SPEAKER_03 2:15:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:15:23

If you wanted to keep him alive, but he has to pay for his crimes, he should be there, not on a beach somewhere. What the heck type of message are you trying to send to us? Matt goes to prison, but he doesn't.

SPEAKER_02 2:15:35

It's some weird meta metaphoric thing that this show does. I'm not and you know what I'm not game for.

SPEAKER_00 2:15:41

The thing that I don't like about this is you inserted the governor in this whole fiasco. Correct. The governor has the power to commute sentences. Matt didn't even need to be arrested if she really was on team Daredevil. Like, she would have been the one that would have said, hey, we needed Daredevil to stop the kingpin. So therefore, we're forgiving him of whatever daredevil crimes that was under Fist's law, anyways, for vigilanteism. That doesn't make sense. I'm sorry, guys. I know that a lot of people online really like this episode, and there are big parts of this episode I really do like. But that guy's dead.

SPEAKER_03 2:16:23

Sorry, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:16:25

Sorry to interrupt you. Yeah. We're at the scene of Fisk literally killing all the citizens as he's walking through the hallways. But, anyways, which is epic. But it's it amounts to nothing at the end of this episode when there's no actual consequences for what actually has happened. In real-world scenarios type thing, or in just logic speaking, it would be the opposite where Matt is not going to prison. So I want someone to go into the comment section below and tell me that I'm wrong and explain to me why I'm wrong. That Fisk had the end this way, and Matt had the end this way.

SPEAKER_02 2:17:01

It's the metaphors, Sammy. You don't see the metaphors. I mean, look, the hallway is red where Daredevil's fighting, and it's a bright white light where Fisk is fighting, it means metaphors. Like that's this, that's the that's what the show has been doing. This whole and this is where I it it a hundred percent. It's like, yo, it's just like the white painting with the this and the that, and the red means this, and the red means that. It's like, gee, you know, why don't you tell a story? It's like, what do we is this a painting? And I get it. Maybe this is the artsy version of this that we're gonna get. And I just it it doesn't it you can't let that they can't let the style trump the story, though, folks. And that's where I'm lost with this show. Like this ending to me is like, what does this really mean then? Like, I don't understand what's going on here, you know, and it's it's because it's a show that you want to talk about playing it safe, that's this show in a nutshell for me. Specifically this episode, and that's even saying, even with him coming out as Daredevil.

SPEAKER_00 2:18:03

And by the way, this scene just played, and I'm seeing this online of people saying that the worst scene of this whole episode was Karen taking down that police officer. That is not the worst scene. It actually, I think, was really well done, and it shows Karen has been practicing the beginning of the season of being in martial arts with Daredevil.

SPEAKER_02 2:18:21

Oh, yeah, I never even gave that scene another thought actually.

SPEAKER_00 2:18:25

But I have been seeing people online that have been saying, This is horrible, women doing this. Shut up. I'm gonna tell you right now, that is misogynistic right there, and I I will call that out. Yeah, there's nothing about that scene. This is not super pepper, so give it a break. Right, yeah, agreed. Like agreed. Pick your battles and where actually matters. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:18:44

Anyways, going from that, that we're at the look at the symbolism here, Sam. You don't see it? The red, the white, the up above everybody, the justice, injustice, the that metaphor. Sorry, guys. I know I'm being a jerk. You guys are not gonna like me with TV shows, I promise you. But I'm being honest, it's still worth a while.

SPEAKER_00 2:19:06

Watch the show, it's a good show. I do like the dialogue though between Kingpin and Matt at this par at this par point where he's saying, just give up, just surrender, just take the deal. Even though it's a stupid deal, just take the deal. Yeah, after you just murdered nine people, take the deal. Me representing the people of New York would say, He doesn't deserve a deal. But for this context and this scene and everything, I think it does is really beautifully written, really well done for that part, and really does showcase what Fisk would actually do. And I love how he has this childlike um attitude of like you took his toy away and he has to be punished. Yeah, he he just lets out a uh type thing, be like, okay. He's a big baby bull shaker, yeah. You know? Yeah. Anyways, um well he saw he had nowhere to go. Yeah. He did. And there was only one way to to really end it for that part there. So, anyways. Uh, to move on from that, um gets arrested. Stupid. I'm sorry. The only thing I'll say about the Matt getting arrested thing is, and this is I know this is hot online as part of a rumor, but I'm gonna say it too, because I really do think this probably is gonna happen. The Spartan brand new day trailer shows Spartan vs. the hand in a prison. Who is one of the hand's main adversaries? Daredevil. Why is Spider Man in a prison? Daredevil. I'm gonna predict that he will be in this brand new day movie. Personally. Matt it just it doesn't make sense. Yeah. Yep. It doesn't uh actually it does make sense. If Matt's gonna prison, yeah, maybe Peter finds out there's some nefarious ninja clan taking over New York City. Yeah, and the only one continuity-wise I don't know about how I feel about Peter right now, he's missing all this, but yeah, the only one continuity-wise that has actually fought the hand is Daredevil, and so he rescues his lawyer who doesn't even realize he was his lawyer because everyone forgot everything. So I'm just saying I think that's kind of cool. Actually, that would be kind of meta. Think about it. Everyone knows who Peter Parker is, and then all of a sudden they don't know, but now everyone knows who Daredevil is, and Daredevil doesn't remember that Peter Parker and Spam were in the same thing. I think that's kind of meta right there. That's kind of cool. Yeah. So I feel like that's gonna happen. If it doesn't happen, I'll be shocked and actually a little disappointed. I think it's a good prediction, anywise. I think it's a very good prediction to make. Yeah. All right. So Jessica Jones uh reunites with Luke Cage. About time. Yeah, it was about time we were gonna get to see him. Yeah, we knew he was coming. Yeah, yeah. I did like see, in the beginning of that scene, I thought that Jessica was, and by the way, I will say Jessica is for me in this whole episode has been one of the highlights for me.

SPEAKER_02 2:21:56

Yeah, well, her contributing to the action scene was actually.

SPEAKER_00 2:21:59

Yes. Well, her in the very beginning of stitching um Daredevil up, and then he yelps out in pain and he's like, You've never done this before, because he actually used to do it for his dad in the box, so he knows how to suit your. She doesn't, and she says, Go through childbirth, and you tell me how that's like. I think that's really funny because I don't know how much pain she actually felt during childbirth. She's Jessica Jones, but anyways. Um, but and then when she takes the big swig of the the whiskey or the or whatever the the alcoholic drink was, and she's she doesn't even say anything, she just gulps it down, then she just walks around people and just is like, I'm just going to fight now.

SPEAKER_02 2:22:36

Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:22:37

I think she's just so good.

SPEAKER_02 2:22:38

She's got a great attitude. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:22:40

So good. Anyways, I love Jessica Jones. But I thought that they were in Matt's old law office until they closed the door and it said alias on there. And that that's really cool. I like that. That's a nice touch to the Jessica Jones show. But, anyways, um I agree. All right, and then the last thing we have ran on here, guys, is Mr. Charles. Mr. Charles appears to have recruited Bullseye for the CIA. Yeah, what a sneaky guy, you know. Like now, when I watched that, I didn't interpret that at first. I thought Mr. Charles was on his way back to back home and Bullseye was there, and my immediate first thought was, oh, he's gonna die. But now, and after re-watching it and rethinking about it, and I guess the prevailing theory out there is he's recruited Bullseye. Yeah, I actually prefer the first one.

SPEAKER_02 2:23:30

My first initial thought. Me too, but I don't know. I don't think Mr. Charles has earned death yet because we don't really know. So well, see, that's the thing about Mr.

SPEAKER_00 2:23:38

Charles. I don't like he's irrelevant in the show.

SPEAKER_02 2:23:40

Well, he's a liaison.

SPEAKER_00 2:23:42

Yes, he's a liaison, but what happens?

SPEAKER_02 2:23:45

You know why he's here? Because they can't give you Louis Dreyfus.

SPEAKER_00 2:23:48

They can't give you but even then they didn't give him anything else.

SPEAKER_02 2:23:51

Yeah, but he's the connection. That's your Thunderbolt's connection. He's that connection. That's that thing that we don't like that they do, that's what they're doing.

SPEAKER_00 2:23:59

If this doesn't give if we don't get a resolution to who Mr. Charles really is and what he's capable of, really in season three, this is stupid.

SPEAKER_02 2:24:08

Well, he's the MacGuffin. No matter what, no matter what can happen, what Mr. Charles really represents is if they by chance ever do want to bring these characters into the movies with the Thunderbolts or with that, they got Mr. Charles as a conduit. And if they don't, we can still never claim that they had nothing to do with it because hey, remember Mr. Charles works for that lady. It's the characters, uh it's it this tells me how irrelevant he is.

SPEAKER_00 2:24:36

Yes, that's what I was trying to say.

SPEAKER_02 2:24:38

And you you are correct, but they won't ever get rid of him for that reason.

SPEAKER_00 2:24:43

I like Matthew Lillard, so it's no offense to him.

SPEAKER_02 2:24:46

It's the writing of it's but now they'll always have that connection that can't be denied, either one way or the other.

SPEAKER_00 2:24:53

It what feels like to me is when you start the season off, you have Mr. Charles make this grand appearance and do a whole scene of him being called from her, going up to go up there, and um it makes it look like that's the guy who's gonna be keeping him in check of doing what they want him to do. And then midway through the season, it's like the writers or the direction they decide to do, the showrunner thought, let's change it up. And instead of the CIA being the reason why we're keeping around, now it's the governor that's gonna keep him in check. And that's what they continued out for the rest of the season. If like I said, if season three does not resolve some of this stuff, this was very pointless and stupid and waste of some of the characters' times. You didn't need the governor at that point if you had Mr. Charles and Julia Lou Dreyfus in behind the scenes, or if your intent was to keep the governor be that checks and balance behind the system type thing of making sure he does what we want him to do, whether we like it or not, type thing, or to make sure he doesn't go too far, like what the governor has been trying to do, then you didn't need Mr. Charles to be part of it, or you could have rewritten him to be the liaison for the governor until the governor makes a grand appearance. I was fine with the governor in this whole thing out of it.

SPEAKER_02 2:26:11

If this were me, guys, this would be the mid-season finale, and then the last few episodes would be Daredevil hiding the Kingpin because they had to team up in order to stop a group of people that Mr. Charles put together to take out Kingpin and take over the city. That would have been then they both then Kingpin and Daredevil would have both been in prison at the end. Yes, that's that's how I would have ended it.

SPEAKER_00 2:26:37

And it would have actually given a little more validity to who Mr. Charles is and what he's capable of, because I'm sorry, there's only so often you can say Valentina Allegro de Fontaine is on the other line without it meaning nothing if you don't follow through of it. And her appearance in the MCU so far has shown weight. She gets involved in stuff and then accumulate into the Thunderbolts and what she is capable of doing. She is that next deceptive Nick Fury type character in the background doing her thing.

SPEAKER_02 2:27:09

And then have Bullseye be the one to take up charge of this new group of people with Mr. Charles to kill both Daredevil and Kingdom to try to kill him. And keep Bullseye a bad guy. Even though we've had this ambiguous thing going on, keep him a bad guy, though. Make it so he still has that edge and that turn to him that no matter what, you're not gonna change him.

SPEAKER_00 2:27:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:27:28

Your thought about see you should have killed me when you had a chance, is what the great moments you could have had later. I mean, I'm telling you, that would have been more risky, would have been more fun, would have been excellent. You could have saved this whole him out and himself as Daredevil until the very end and and just have them both be in trouble. I just I don't know, I just think it would have worked. I'd have worked, it'd have been neat to see him sacrifice himself as being Daredevil in order to put Kingpin in prison, him and himself, but also using Kingpin at the same time to stop a group of people that are gonna do something worse than Kingpin could be doing through mist the conduit of Mr. Charles. Yeah, that that's just me, guys, but yeah, I know.

SPEAKER_00 2:28:04

I completely I like your version of how this show should have ended, to be honest. So, anyways, um uh do you have any final thoughts or do you want to rate the season?

SPEAKER_02 2:28:14

So I'll yeah, I'll I'll I'll give my final quick thought and I'll rate it real quick. We're gonna do a one out of ten, right? Yeah. Um, so my final thought is uh if you guys like Daredevil and you like superhero shows and you like more of a metaphoric, artsy way of looking at it, this is your show. You know? Um I enjoyed watching it. I wouldn't say it's a waste of time. I probably will never watch it again. So as shows go, my rating for TV shows, I'm pretty stickler, guys. So if I'm gonna give it a one out of ten, I'll give it a solid four out of ten.

SPEAKER_00 2:28:51

Oh, and by the way, I forgot to mention the scene of uh Dr. Glenn putting on Muse's mask for the first time.

SPEAKER_02 2:28:56

Oh yeah, I mean that stuff always, yeah, that's right. I forget this too. That interests me to see where that's gonna go. But to me, that's unnecessary. Because this should that should have been something saved for a different season. I yeah, I I wish it, I I wish it was it wasn't a cliffhanger for this season, is all right.

SPEAKER_00 2:29:13

Well we are gonna see now a payoff, obviously, for the next season. So I'm curious.

SPEAKER_02 2:29:16

Oh, yeah, sure. We're gonna get some crazy stuff going on. I don't know, what whatever any of it means. I mean, we'll we'll be there four guys, and you know, and worst case we get through three or four episodes and we say, yeah, maybe not anymore. You know, it all depends if it gets bad enough, you know. I don't because I don't want to just dump on a show if it gets real bad. So if it gets real bad, we might we might end up doing something else. But it so far it hasn't we haven't gotten anywhere close to that yet.

SPEAKER_00 2:29:40

So well, your rating is four out of ten. I'm gonna say for myself, what my final thoughts on this breakdown is that season two is much better than season one. You do need season one as the building block for season two, but season two drastically improves and reminds me of the Netflix show. Yeah, but I would probably give this a rating of like six out of ten for myself personally. And I am a hardcore Daredevil fan, but I do think that the Netflix show and season three in particular, and even season two, is much better than Born Again season two, in my opinion. That's fair. But I'm curious now to see what's gonna happen in season three. What are your guys' rates for season two of Daredevil Born Again? Did you get the metaphors? Did you get the metaphors? Did you agree with my brother? Did you agree with myself? Did you agree with our thoughts on it? Or do you don't agree? Please comment down below and let us know your thoughts. And we are now gonna move on to the main event at hand. Yep. We're gonna talk about Thor the Dark World. Yes, sir. Stay tuned. All right. Thanks, guys, for staying with us with the Goodell Multiverse Podcast. We are on to our main event of the episode where we are doing our retrospective review of Thor, the Dark World. All right, so I'm gonna get this started off, guys, like we normally do, give you a little bit of a history behind the film, talk to you about a couple things about it, uh, some of the things of the behind the scenes that we were able to dig up on it, and then we're gonna just jump right on in to act one and go from there. And yeah, I hope thank you for staying with us, by the way, guys. If you are just watching us or listening to us for the first time, um, please like and subscribe, follow our social media. We're on Facebook, we're on Instagram, we're on TikTok, and your support and just doing those things really shows a lot to us and um makes this show even more worth it. We love doing this stuff. This has been a great March to Doomsday and Yeah, having a ball. Yeah, this is this is so exciting. And um this is a great film for us to review. It's that's definitely within the MCU community a hot topic film to review on. Is this good? Is this not good? And you're gonna hear our two cents finally on Thor to Dark World. And so thank you so much. Comment below, by the way, if you're watching us on YouTube, to let us know if you think that this movie is your cup of tea or is it not? What improvements would you do? Everything. We we do read your comments and we enjoy it, actually. So please do. All right, let's get this show on the road, guys. The history behind the film of Thor the Dark World. Thor the Dark World was released on November 8th, 2013. The main casts include Chris Hemsworth, Nalie Portman, Tom Hillston, Chris Christopher Eccleson, Eccleton, um, Idris Elba, Anthony Hopkins, Kat Dennings, Renee Russo, Jamie Alexander, and a little cameo of Zachary Levi. Big cast guys, big names, you should say. All right. Marvel Studios road to filming Thor, the Dark World, was far more turbulent than most MCU productions, arriving at a critical transition point for the franchise. Following the massive success of the Avengers in 2012, Marvely Marvely was officially entering phase two, and the studio was under pressure to prove its solo heroes could thrive after being elevated by crossover events. The original Thor had been a moderate success, but Marvel wanted the sequel to feel bigger, darker, and more epic in scope. Initially, acclaimed director Patty Jenkins, who would later direct Wonder Woman, was hired to helm the film, marking what would have been Marvel's first female directed movie. Jenkins reportedly developed a more emotionally grounded, character focused version centered heavily on Jane Foster and the relationship dynamics between Jane and Thor. However, creative differences quickly emerged between Jenkins and Marvel over the tone and story direction. Jenkins departed the Project in late 2011 over officially over creative differences, though reports later suggest she felt Marvel was setting her up to make a movie she didn't believe in. This departure sparked controversy because Natal Portman had reportedly championed Jenkins for the job, and there was widespread industry rumors that Portman was frustrated by Marvel's decision. While Portman later denied wanting to quit outright, it was heavily speculated that the situation damaged her enthusiasm for the franchise for years, helping explain away Jane Foster's absence from later MCU installments until Thor Love and Thunder. Marvel quickly brought in Alan Taylor, known for directing major episodes of Game of Thrones, to replace Jenkins and steer the film toward a grittier fantasy style. Filming began in September 2012, just months after the Avengers shattered box office records. The MCU at this point had enormous momentum, but it was still proving whether it could maintain quality and consistency across in increasingly interconnected films. Chris Hemsworth was ascending rapidly as a global action star after both Thor and the Avengers, though he was still working to establish himself outside of Marvel. Tom Hiddleston, meanwhile, had exploded in popularity thanks to Loki's breakout performance in the Avengers, to the point that Marvel significantly expanded his role in the Dark World. Natal Portman was coming off of her Oscar-winning performance in Black Swan and had become one of the most prestigious actors attached to the MCU, though reports suggest she was less invested after Jenkins' departure. Anthony Hopkins, Idris Elba, and Christopher Eccleston brought heavyweight dramatic credibility, though Eckest Eccleston would later openly criticize his experience under the heavy Malakeith prosthetics. Some fun facts from production included Marvel's use of real Icelandic volcanic landscapes to create Sivhein. I can't pronounce that.

SPEAKER_02 2:36:13

I can't pronounce anything in Thor's World.

SPEAKER_00 2:36:16

Sivartelefehein.

SPEAKER_02 2:36:18

Yeah, that place.

SPEAKER_00 2:36:21

Extensive practical as guardian sets and one of the MCU's earliest attempts at bleeding Shakespearean fantasy with darker blockbuster spectacle. Tom Hilllesson's popularity also reportedly influenced rewrites that gave Loki much more screen time than initially planned. Upon release in November 2013, Thor the Dark World received mixed critical reception, earning 66% on Rotten Tomatoes from critics and roughly 75% from audiences, with praise for Hemsworth and Hillson's chemistry, but criticism aimed at its generic villain and uneven tone. Financially, however, it was a solid hit. It grossed approximately $644.8 million worldwide against a production budget of 150 to 170 million. That is a success. This proves Thor's solo franchise remained commercially viable even amid behind-the-scenes turmoil, which often considered while often considered one of Marvel's weaker entries, um, early entries, the film's development, drama, director controversy, and cast tensions make it one of Marvel's most fascinating productions in hindsight. So I am going to do what I did at the last episode, guys. I failed to write down the official synopsis. I will get better at that, because that's part of my script of writing this stuff down, but I always forget.

SPEAKER_02 2:37:55

You guys better comment about this too. I'm kidding.

SPEAKER_00 2:37:59

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:38:01

Come on, Sam.

SPEAKER_03 2:38:02

No. Alright. Thor the Dark World, official. Synopsis.

SPEAKER_00 2:38:14

Alright. My brother Ike, would you be interested in reading the partner?

SPEAKER_02 2:38:21

Okay, guys, so here we are. Thor the Dark World, the mighty Thorb, who battles to save Earth and all nine realms from a shadowy ancient race led by Malachi, right? Malachith. Melkeith, Malachi, Melkeith, same thing, right? Malachi's children of corn, so it's not the same thing. Um, who seeks to plunge the universe back into darkness. All right.

SPEAKER_00 2:38:44

Well, that sounds like a great story. Yeah. So uh one of the things I'll point out in doing my research, and I didn't include it in the history behind the film, is it was very early on um Marvel wanted to use Hella as the main villain for this movie. Oh, but they got denied because they felt boys would not buy the Hella action figures. Well, I'm wrong about that. Yes. And guys, that's something that you're gonna hear a lot from us when it comes to this. Unfortunately, for superhero movies, that they re for some reason relied so heavily on the extra marketing expenditures and the extra marketing um revenue from like Hasbro and other games and other toy companies and things like that, to the point where it actually dictates what the direction they're gonna do the movie in. We saw that in Iron Man 3, where they originally did want the female character there that was a bad guy to be the main one of the main villains, and they thought that wouldn't sell well because it's a female villain, and we found out about this, it's the same thing. And I think that Marvel later, of course, decided we're not just gonna do that anymore because you're leaving great rich characters to the side over a toy marketing campaign. Yeah. Yeah. I'm glad they decided to change that. And it worked out in Hella's favor when we get to Thor 3, of course.

SPEAKER_02 2:40:14

Yeah, of course, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:40:15

But um I just thought that was interesting. I had to throw that out there.

SPEAKER_02 2:40:19

Yeah, that is interesting. I didn't know that. What a neat tidbit because it's I still find it astonishing. Maybe it's I don't know if it's I'm I'm an old-fashioned kind of fella, but I've watched a lot of movies, folks, and I'm still surprised that there's this narrative, even at this time, of them being afraid of showing a woman bee and whatever you want her to be in the movie, you know, whether it's the damsel in distress or the one that kicks the butt. Because I've seen so many movies that it goes back to the the some of the most best horror movies I've watched are you know, the it's not called the final girl for nothing, right? Like these women survive these awful characters, and it's often because they find the courage to fight back 99% of the time. I'm just I it's funny how it feels like why as progressive as Hollywood is, you know, why do they still act this way sometimes? Yeah. Because to me, I would never thought they they wouldn't have done that because they thought it was wouldn't sell a female toy. Yeah. What are we talking about, man? Like you know how many He-Man toys that were female toys. Like, I don't know. It's interesting to me to still hear stuff like that. And it just too bad that that that's where that social political line comes in, where it's kind of like, what are we talking about here? It's it's weird to me. So Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:41:38

No, I completely agree. I get it. And um myself growing up in a time where Angelina Jolie's tomb raider was the big thing and things like that. Yeah. It and of course the um Hunger Games became a big thing and all that. It's just it that does surprise me that um you would get little hints of that. Like, where is that old world thinking coming from? And yeah, especially like it's I get it.

SPEAKER_02 2:42:02

There was a time where it was like that, you know, but But you're talking, I think, way longer ago than than we perceive it. You know, I it's strange to think that just as long ago as this movie, it was still kind of a thing. When to me, it's like I didn't grow up ever thinking that. You know, we didn't grow up in a sexist household, you know. It's there was it just it just didn't to us, it wasn't you know, it didn't seem like that. I I don't know. It's it's a strange without getting political, I don't want to get into it, guys, because we all know I just want good stories told. I don't care if female, black, white, orange, green. It doesn't matter to me. Just good story, good story. Let's do it, man. I'm not all for it.

SPEAKER_00 2:42:38

Good story, good villain, good character. We want to see that's what we as comic fans like. We like seeing what they go to the movies, yeah. So stuff like that. So it doesn't matter to us the gender or race of a character. We just want it good. Yeah, just good. That's all we ask. Yep. All right. So I'll start off with breaking down act one, and then we're gonna go through. We have a little review form that we got guys that we use as a template. Um, which by the way, before I get into that, it it does stick out to me because I have it in bold lettering here. The money they made on this film, yeah, it was definitely more than the first one. Yes, yes, thank the Avengers.

SPEAKER_02 2:43:15

No, if I'm not saying bad about the film, just saying thank Avengers because that's why people went there like, oh, what's next now? You know, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:43:21

Well, it's a testament too. Iron Man 3 that came out right before this made over a billion dollars. Yeah, same thing, yeah. So it's just phenomenal. It's just awesome. It's just awesome. And it was great at this time, especially to really prove the MCU had momentum. No matter what character they were doing next, it was the momentum. And we're gonna definitely get into even more momentum as we go along and know that. All right, so act one, guys, the convergence approaches. After the events of the Avengers, Thor is trying to restore order across the nine realms, while also struggling with his feelings for Jane Foster, whom he had been separated from Earth. Um, or from, I mean. On Earth, Jane Jane accidentally becomes infected with the mysterious ether, an ancient and destructive force. This awakens the Dark Elf leader, Malakeith, who intends to use the convergence, a rare alignment of the realms, to plunge the universe into darkness. Thor brings Jane to Asgard for protection, unloaningly bringing the ether directly to Malakeith's attention. Alright. So, Ike, what worked for you in this uh first act?

SPEAKER_02 2:44:31

So, what worked for me in this first act is I enjoyed the Earth characters more in this beginning part than I did in the first Thor movie. Um, and I liked there's actually a point to Jane this time. Um what worked for me is definitely that whole anomaly that they were looking at with the truck was like, you know, moving around and how they're dropping the stuff and it was coming down above them. All that stuff really worked for me a lot. And you know what else really worked? I like him bringing her to Asgard. I kind of almost wish there was more of that in this movie. I kind of wish there was like a 20-minute segment of her just like exploring, learning what Asgard's about. You know, like if if that's something I would go back and say there was a missed opportunity, we'll talk about it later. To me, that was a bit of a missed opportunity. Um, and I think it would have fixed the problem that I have with this movie. So we'll get when we get to the end, we'll get more into that. Uh, but yeah, what worked for me is definitely I like seeing chill Thor too. I like Thor in his like chilling out gear, where he's just got that big old cape like apron thing on. I don't know, there's something about it. It's just like I kind of could spend like I could I could do a 10 episode TV show of Thor, and some of it is just them hanging out, like for some reason. I don't know what it is about the way this feels lived in still, you know. It it it that so I that sticks out to me the most, those two things. Very believable beginning, you know. This idea of how she gets the ether in her and all that stuff. I like all that. That all worked real well for me. Bringing her back into it worked well, you know. Because it could have been really weird and you know, they could have just like made it, forced it to happen, but I don't feel like it was forced. I feel like she would be searching for Thor this whole time. I feel like she would continue to look for that kind of anomaly and all that stuff, and then for that to happen like that, I thought was real good.

SPEAKER_00 2:46:24

Yeah. Yep, I agree. I think that that does complement it well from the first movie to this one of the similar readings, and then she's still interested and she's just longing for Thor and she hasn't seen him in a so long type. Two years or something like that.

SPEAKER_02 2:46:39

Yeah, yeah, yes, yeah. Which is funny because she slaps him later and it's like, yeah. Yeah, it's like, dude, where you been? Like, yeah. But oh, you're real now. Where you been?

SPEAKER_01 2:46:49

Yeah, I like that. It's it's perfect. Oh, yeah, well within character, too.

SPEAKER_02 2:46:53

This time I feel the chemistry, unlike last time.

SPEAKER_00 2:46:56

Yes, yep. Yeah, that's true. That's true. Yeah, you did. I I you see the I've for me at least, I saw the sparks in the first movie. But I agree with you. The chemistry between her and Chris Hemsworth in this was definitely turned up a notch. Yep. Yep, and that's very important that you need for your female leads and your male leads, the your love interest leads, you know. Yeah, so good pairing. I'm glad it worked out. They're just they're just two great actors, too. Yeah, like just so good at it. Well, it worked for you, Sam. All right, so I I agreed with you on the first movie on this, and I definitely wanted to touch and highlight this on this movie. Oh no. When Odin gives the opening monologue, it is so good. You know, I want to hear him tell me bedtime stories going on.

SPEAKER_02 2:47:42

I could listen to him read Moby Dick to me all night.

SPEAKER_00 2:47:44

That would be this is it's so good.

SPEAKER_01 2:47:47

I love it. Anthony Hopkins, man. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:47:51

He needs to get his voice on an audiobook. Just that's just so good. Anyways, um, as Odin. But um, I love his explanation of the the past and talking about the the war that his grandfather had fought and what that was. I I personally I love the Dark Elves. I like them in the comics. There is there's a video game out there called Marvel Ultimate Alliance, guys, and the Dark Elves are featured in it as somewhat of a I mean Marvel Ultimate Alliance literally means that everybody of everything is in this video game. But I loved the parts of that video game where you're with your characters and you're fighting the dark elves as you're getting to finding Odin in the game and stuff. And I really liked that nugget, and that reminded me when I was watching this movie of oh, we get them in this movie. I like the dark elves personally for the characters that they are. Um, so I liked it that they were telling the story of the dark elves and how they came to be. I liked how they were viewed. Um, and it's gonna lead me into a little bit of the things I have a problem with the Dark Elves in this movie. But what I'll say what worked for me part is that whole beginning montage of um explanation of history, what happened. I love that the setup, the idea of a convergence, which I think is very creative storytelling of all these realms at one point, like every 5,000 years or something, they actually blur the lines, and I love how Thor explains it to Jane later on. Um, I think we do get that in this part after he brings her to um uh Asgard. I I agree with you. I like the whole scene of the kids and her finding out the um yeah, I I I really like that. The other things I do like is how she transports up to um Asgard with him with the the by the Biafrost and everything. She's like, we gotta do that again. Yes, I love that because the the typical person might be like, oh, I feel sick, but she's just like, oh, this is riveting, let's do this again.

SPEAKER_02 2:49:59

She's fascinated by it too. It's scientifically on top of it. Yeah, so good. You imagine being someone of science and then going somewhere like that, like what the law. And the first thing you see is Edris Alba, too, with his big old brown eyes. And see all this gold around you, and Rainbow Bifrost Bridge.

SPEAKER_00 2:50:16

Like, oh, that's so cool.

SPEAKER_01 2:50:18

That's so cool.

SPEAKER_02 2:50:19

Where's the Lego set for that?

SPEAKER_00 2:50:20

I want to do this bridge. Yeah, yeah. I tell you, that's one of the things that I love about the first film, and I love it even more in this film, is I just want to explore Asgard. Well, it looks so we never spend enough time there. We don't. We don't. They they build such an amazing, beautiful city. And I I just want to, I would watch a TV show, a 10-episode thing of just walking around and be like, what's the store look like? What'd they eat? What'd they do? I just had an epiphany.

SPEAKER_02 2:50:50

What? In the vein of Batman Arkham City and Spider-Man video games, a Thor video game where you just open World Asgard and you can buy frost wherever you want in the nine realms for like missions and stuff. Somebody get on that freaking game, man. That'd be so wouldn't that be sick? Yeah, that would be sick. The stuff you could do. Yeah, and if you like buy frost far away and you forget the hammer, you can like call it and it in in the game it takes time to get to you. That would be so good. Somebody needs to call somebody. Like somebody call somebody.

SPEAKER_01 2:51:27

Insomnia games, please do this.

SPEAKER_02 2:51:29

I would buy that in a heartbeat. That would be so fun to play an open world Asgard Thor games. Yeah, buddy. All right, sorry, go ahead, Sam. I completely agree. I don't know why, just in my head, I'm like, my god, why did I think of that?

SPEAKER_00 2:51:41

That'd be so sick. Well, I do love how they did with the Batman Arkham games and the Spider-Man games. The open world concept is so cool, and Thor is a great character for a game like that because exploring Asgard, exploring all the realms and what's in there. That's so cool.

SPEAKER_02 2:51:56

How awesome that would be. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:51:58

Yeah, I will just want to see it. Anyways, um, yeah, I I like that. I I like Odin and Loki's dialogue in this first act. It reminds me a little bit of some of the parts that we liked about the first film when remember in the first film when Loki's about to speak, and Owen goes when the when uh I'll never forget that.

SPEAKER_01 2:52:22

He just literally hisses ass like whoa. And I love that was impromptu. That's even better. Ah my god, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:52:33

Um the when Loki says what his his birthright was to rule, and Odin like kind of musters up and he says, Your birthright was to die.

SPEAKER_01 2:52:46

It was on a rock or something, yeah. On a rock in the cold, like it's just as a baby. It was just so perfect. I I love that scene.

SPEAKER_00 2:52:54

I think that was really, really cool. Um, and only Anthony Hopkins could be able to deliver a line like that. It is so good. I will say though, this is the first film where um Odin later on you see the jackassery about him a little bit.

SPEAKER_02 2:53:14

Yeah, we'll talk about that later.

SPEAKER_00 2:53:15

We'll get that there. Yeah, we'll get there.

SPEAKER_02 2:53:17

I got some things to say. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:53:18

Anyways. Um, yeah, I like that. And I gotta tell you, as I alluded to earlier on this episode, guys, I know like everyone has their favorite flavor of Thor, their favorite taste of Thor, and different types of Thor and his his vibe, his attitude, all the all the stuff about it. This to me is the beginning of Peak Thor for me as a character-wise. Not look-wise, you get to peak Thor look-wise in Love and Thunder, because Chris Hemsworth just amped it right up for that movie. But for as what I picture Thor to be, he has a touch of funny in this movie. It's just not as exaggerated as it is in Ragnarok and Love and Thunder and stuff, stuff like that. But there is this natural um charisma with him as Chris Hemsworth uh playing Thor. And you see that in this movie more so, and then I think if I remember right, it bleeds into Age of Ultron a little bit, the same type of Thor. And this is one of my favorite versions of Thor. So I I really have to say that this is when it comes to um if I had to list the different types of Thor's, this one is like my my favorite, and then I get to Endgame Infinity War Thor, and then I'll get down to like the Racknarok Levant under Thor and stuff like that. So that's just me personally. Um, but anyways, uh I did so. I just had to say that's the one of the parts that worked for me. Well also worked for me is Thor's entrance in the movie when they're all battling, and he and how he enters and his dialogue banter with Lady Sith right there. So good. And then the was supposed to be Korg, honestly. This that character, that rock creature was supposed to be Korg until they decide to redo that a little bit and Ragnarok because Taika Wati wanted to play him and all this different stuff. Um good choices, all of it. Great, yes, yeah. It was, and that was a great choice too. Yeah, doing that. So this could just be another one of those rock creatures, didn't have to be explicitly Korg. But him walking up to him, he's like, Oh, you're a big one, and he's winding up. But as I love that once he blows him up, everyone's like, Okay, we're done. Yeah, that was our Goliath, and just like David, you just slayed him, and now we're just done.

SPEAKER_02 2:55:33

You know, once his face is like, we should start with the big one.

SPEAKER_00 2:55:35

Yeah, ways to start with the big one. Yeah, yeah. That's so good. So, yeah, all those parts really worked for me.

SPEAKER_02 2:55:41

Um, I still miss seeing them as a girl. I'd love to see that group of them still.

SPEAKER_00 2:55:46

I'm telling you, that is one of those teams that should have been a Disney Plus show.

SPEAKER_02 2:55:50

Oh, it would have been a great show. To get this this team together and just build a group of guys and girls kicking butt. Yeah. Come on, some really fun missions. Like that'd be so cool.

SPEAKER_00 2:55:59

That would have been. That would have been really cool. Anyways, so that's what worked for me. What didn't work for you? So what didn't work for me?

SPEAKER_02 2:56:08

Um, the introduction to the villain is just kind of blah. You know, um, and unfortunately the villain stays very blah to me the entire movie. I think it's probably the weakest part of the movie. Um, but that definitely in this beginning, uh it just I don't know, man. I just don't care about these guys. Some of it plot hole-wise doesn't make a lot of sense about how they're connected to the ether. I got questions about that. Um, but I can accept some of that stuff and let it go, whatever. Uh this might yeah, I I'm gonna pick that as my biggest thing without going too much into other things, because there's there's other things, but they become more prevalent later that I want to talk about in a in a different spot. So yeah, the villain really disappoints me. Uh in the in this beginning. Uh, when I when you guys do a villain for these Marvel movies, you know, um when they do them, I appreciate taking swings with them and making it be like, okay, show me why this guy's a bad guy, you know? And other than looking mean and not caring whether his own people die in that one scene, it really just doesn't. I'm just this guy isn't scary. Like this guy's not scary yet. And what also didn't work for me is this henchman there that he turns into the monster. He's a predator. Like, what's going on here?

SPEAKER_03 2:57:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:57:35

Like, I'm just like, okay, and like he's all of a sudden like the most powerful thing out there. It's like, what why not make a hundred of those? Like, what are you doing then? You know what I mean? Like, I don't know. It's part of me, it's kind of like, what's happening here? You know, what is you know, I don't know. If he's so connected to the ether, why can't he find it in the first place? And why not just go get it? I don't know. It's like I got certain questions about it, but it's strange, you know. So the villain, the this definitely from this is not a good start. Let's put it that way. He has a great moment later, but it's not a good start from for me with the villains. I'm gonna have to say that. Because the look of them are cool. I like their ships and how they cloak, they look awesome, um, which comes to a scene later I love, you know, um, which is I think in the next part when they actually attack Asgard.

SPEAKER_03 2:58:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:58:19

Um, and that's where the next the scene is. I like the villains in, one of the villain things in it. But yeah, it's uh yeah, I'm gonna have to say what doesn't work for me is it's just you're not you're not convincing me about these villains yet. Right off the bat, I kind of feel like what's the big deal? And it makes me kind of hear Odin sound like a whiny, kind of grumpy old man because like we don't understand how bad these guys are, but he obviously is making it like it's a big deal. But like to me, it's like they're really not that big a deal yet. You know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_00 2:58:53

Like he's he's very Odin is very arrogant when it comes to this part, where th uh Thor would say And one one like one sided about it. Yes, you know, like Thor would say, Are you sure that they're dead? And he's like, They're dead, and he just leaves it at that. Well, without the possibility of, hey, this ether thing is now here, which that was Thor literally says this was rumored to not be real and now it's real. Do you think that the the guys that really wanted it are out there? And he's like, No, like he's very adamant, arrogant about it. Be like, look, you got proof right here that this actually could be out there.

SPEAKER_02 2:59:30

Yeah, I agree.

SPEAKER_00 2:59:31

So that that will trickle in a little bit to what I didn't like about it. Is I like I said, I was anticipating the the dark elves. I like the dark elves, I think they're kind of cool, and I kind of like how they were physically portrayed in the movie. I like that the the weapons that they had, the different things they could do with them, and um just their overall presence was cool. It's the writing for them that is not not so good. Um, I completely agree with you on uh my issue with Malakeith. He is a blah villain.

SPEAKER_02 3:00:07

At least at least the introduction so far.

SPEAKER_00 3:00:08

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:00:09

I mean, uh he doesn't get much better, but like no, it doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_00 3:00:14

But yeah, it does. It's like the act one, he's like, okay, act two, he kind of peaks, act three, it's like, uh, what the heck? And so it I feel like we're in the same vibe when it comes to that for the villain, is that I can't say he's the worst villains Marvel had, but he's definitely not a top-tier villain. And there are times where they play them up as this big dark entity, and then you they don't, and then they're just brushed aside, and you're like, okay, like I it's it's I wish they were written better. There are some inconsistencies with them, that like them floating into in space for thousands of years and no one has found them. One, how are they surviving? Because they imply in the movie that they're floating until the ether arrives or come or presents itself again, and then they wake up. He looks exactly the same as he did with Odin's grandfather, and now you're one, two, three, four generations later, and you look exactly the same. It just it feels like, okay, are they immortal? What's going on? Yeah, it's a strange But yeah, they're not immortal because that's all that's left of the of them from the big battle. So it's almost like okay, I don't know. That that it's there's just some inconsistencies about them there.

SPEAKER_02 3:01:33

I have a question for you. Yeah. What's the name of the villain from the first movie, the bad guy in the first one? The first horror? Yeah. It was uh oh, uh Laufe, the frost giants. And they're frost giants.

SPEAKER_03 3:01:44

Yeah. You know what fixes this movie? That the bad guys would be the frost giants. How so? Just have them want the ether.

SPEAKER_02 3:01:54

You do the same movie and have them want the ether and them come back and make a big problem for them. Because you tease the issue. Let's continue on. We'll we'll talk about w how we do this movie differently at the end. I would why not see in the first Thor movie, they tease that there's this war gonna happen between them because of the actions of that's being made. And then it and then it doesn't happen, right?

SPEAKER_00 3:02:17

Well it doesn't happen because Loki kills um Laufe.

SPEAKER_02 3:02:20

Right, just kills Laofi. Kills the leader. Right, but they're still there. So why not have another one that comes up and says we're getting revenge and we're gonna and how we're gonna do it is by using this thing that now we know is back in the See.

SPEAKER_00 3:02:34

I feel like they would need to use a different artifact because the ether, which is the reality stone that we come to find out, it makes sense why the dark elves want the Oh I no, I completely know.

SPEAKER_02 3:02:45

Yeah, I know. I'm just I'm saying wreck on that though, and just and let them be the ones that have that, you know what I mean? Like their new goal.

SPEAKER_00 3:02:52

That'll be uh why I say that is because they're just more interesting of a villain. Yeah, well that just that just comes down again to the poor writing of the villains. They were more interesting. I agree with you on that. But I think these guys could have been really interesting. Oh, yeah, they just dropped the ball. It's just yeah, like the they're they have moments that almost reminds me a little bit of like Star Trek moments and how they look and what they're doing and talking and all that stuff, but it's just not they're they're just not that well written. That's that's my that's my biggest problem with the whole movie, and I think that they that's probably one of the reasons why a lot of people would list this Thor movie as one of the lower level movies. I don't believe them. Like I just don't believe exactly. I get their point. Yeah, I get what they're trying to do, and that all makes sense to me, but the execution of it is what isn't making sense, and I don't know how the I would not know how to rewrite this movie to make them better yet. I'm sure we could come up with it, and I didn't have my pitch ready for this movie on what I would have done differently. But the only thing I would say is they definitely need to be rewritten.

SPEAKER_02 3:04:03

Yeah, no, I'm with you. Yeah, I'm and that would and me just thinking of Frost Giants was if we're gonna play it kind of safe-ish and still have it fun, you let's have another epic uh spout with them, you know. I mean, yeah. Then you can almost play off of some of the issues I have with this movie uh in general, because of some of the stuff from the first movie kind of bleeds into this one as well.

SPEAKER_00 3:04:24

Well, I think that's one of the things I I agree that we or that I think we definitely don't want to see the end of Thor because that we do have nine realms, and I want to see what the other villains are like out there in the other realms. And we're I'm with you. See, that's another point about this movie and this villain in particular. They don't say and I'm trying please correct me if I'm wrong, and internet correct me if I'm wrong if Ike doesn't know it, but the they introduce the elves as being there from the beginning of the nine realms, being from the darkness. Yeah, they're not from a realm. Right. They're exist outside of the realms, I guess. I don't get that. And if that's true, that's where they hid the ether outside of the realms. That's why the only time you could find it is when the convergence is happening, all the lines are blurred, and all the crazy gravity crap is happening.

SPEAKER_02 3:05:15

Yeah, so part of these. Yeah, yeah, I'm with you. I'm with you.

SPEAKER_00 3:05:20

I would love to sit down with the writer of this and say, please explain some of these parts to me.

SPEAKER_03 3:05:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:05:26

And that is a problem, guys. You shouldn't have to sit down with the writer to explain the movie. The movie should have done it. So anyway. Yeah, I got you. Anyway, so that's that's just my part um on that. And I do agree with you. That what didn't work for me is it doesn't explain their I get their desire to want the ether because they want to rewrite reality to make it dark, eternal darkness. I get that part. I don't get their connection to the ether. Why is it that when the ether is discovered and inside Jane Foster, all of a sudden they wake up?

SPEAKER_03 3:05:59

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:06:00

Why haven't they been looking it for all these thousands of years? And also, why haven't they been discovered from other things all these thousands of years? They're in a floating ship. You don't think pillagers like Star Lord and all that aren't out there trying to scavenge, and then all of a sudden, oh, we woke the Dark Elves up. I actually would have liked this movie more if that's how they woke up, is maybe they were put into this state of um, which will explain their aging, why they didn't age. Yeah, true. Put into this coma-like state in there. And then someone comes along and awakens them, just like the rat made um Ant-Man come out of the quantum realm in that game, something crazy, uh, space octopus made them wake up. I would I would actually prefer that as more of an introduction of why we haven't seen in this song. And then they're pursuing this ether. And just so happens this ether gets inside Jane.

SPEAKER_02 3:06:57

Yeah. Anyways. Yeah. Do you think when Doctor Strange was looking through all the possibilities of winning, that when he went through that one and he saw the rat goes across the thing, he didn't go, really?

unknown 3:07:08

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 3:07:08

Like in his own mind, like, really? He's like, Really, this all is going to depend on that rat.

SPEAKER_01 3:07:13

Yeah, yeah. Well, I'm not counting this universe.

SPEAKER_02 3:07:17

Oh my god, we are screwed. All right, anyways, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:07:20

Yeah, I agree. But, anyways, that's that's what that's my only biggest issue with this. I know I talked a lot about it already. That's okay. Um uh went on maybe a little too late.

SPEAKER_02 3:07:29

Well, it's confusing because it's hard to it's hard to understand what they're trying to tell us.

SPEAKER_00 3:07:33

He's a generic villain that is too generic, not just too generic, but brings up too many You see, even if he is a generic standard run-in-to your mill, mustache twilling villa villain, those ones you don't question too much of the origin around them or their purpose around them and things like that. This one is a generic villain that has all these question marks around it, and they never get flushed out. Yeah, that's true. So that's that's my only problem with it. I think he could have been a really good menacing villain. I the dark elves, I mean, one of the things that does disappoint me about this movie, um, and I'll get that as part of my character breakdown missed opportunities type thing, is the dark elves actually have magic elves. Oh they're not in here, and I think that would have been cool, especially for Jane being a scientist and seeing magic for the first time, like actual legit magic being conducted. That would have been cool, anyways. Yeah, right, much better than what we got, anyways. Um, so that's what didn't work for me. Um standout moment. Standout moment. What's your standout moment?

SPEAKER_02 3:08:39

Uh mine's a simple one. I I'd like a lot of this stuff in the beginning, anyway, other than the villain stuff. Yeah. Um, but my favorite standout moment in the beginning is the scene between Loki and his mom.

SPEAKER_03 3:08:51

Hmm. Hmm. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:08:54

I like that this definitely gives Renee Russo the shine that she needs as this character. Um, but also is there's a there's a lot of heart there to a guy who we just got done seeing is one of the meanest people and ever, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. In the Avengers. So, and I also like that he gets his trickery from her, really. Like she's kind of like the like like mystic, like he is in that sense, and he kind of gets that from her. And I like when she reaches her hands out and he goes to touch her, and she like, you know, she's not there. Because it's kind of like, oh, that's you know, he does that to people all the time. It's the same abilities too. I was just saying, and it's like I I kind of enjoy uh I just enjoyed that scene. I thought that was very that's where this movie shines is there's a lot more heart moments in this movie, and that's one of them for the first act. Yeah. So that's mine.

SPEAKER_00 3:09:44

Alright, so mine is um I love it when that dark elf monster guy looks at Loki and decides, yeah, I'm not releasing this guy.

SPEAKER_02 3:09:55

Oh, I like that too. I just thought that would be I just thought that would be more part of act two because it's during the invasion.

SPEAKER_00 3:10:00

Oh, that's is that did I let me see. I I may have messed up on that guy'cause that could that robot.

SPEAKER_02 3:10:06

You might want that to be on the next one. But yes.

SPEAKER_00 3:10:09

Yeah, it it kind of is. You're right. So let me see if I continue. Oh no, I wrote too much on that. Uh for so I guess I would say then for my standout moment for act one, then in particular, is um when they're ex examining um when they're examining Jane. Oh, yeah. That thing lashes out. And it's when I love it's when the science and the mystic stuff kind of do meet. Or she's like, Is that this? And the the doctor voodoo lady, whatever she is, is like, it does this. And she says, Does it do this? She said, Yeah, and she's like, It's that. You know, I I don't know the specific terminology, but you know, yeah, yeah, yeah. That was that that was really cool. And then seeing the dynamic of bringing a human to Asgard, yeah, and who's accepting, who's not. It's really Thor bringing home his girlfriend and finding out that dad's not as accepting as mom is type.

SPEAKER_02 3:11:05

Yeah, I got issues with that later, but it bugs me. But it bugs me. I I wouldn't, you're such a jerk, man. Like, come on.

SPEAKER_01 3:11:14

It does, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:11:14

He is just an old curmudgeon in this, man.

SPEAKER_01 3:11:17

Like he is.

SPEAKER_02 3:11:18

It's like, what do you are? She's she's like a dog to us. Like, what'd you turn into an asshole? Chill out, bro. You brought home a frost giant as a kid. Like, you want to talk about? Like, what are you talking about here? Like, that's so true. Mike, you're about to talk.

SPEAKER_01 3:11:35

Who do you think you are? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:11:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:11:38

Anyways, um, what would you give your score for act one?

SPEAKER_02 3:11:42

Act one, I give it a six out of ten.

SPEAKER_00 3:11:44

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 3:11:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:11:45

I gave it an eight out of ten. That's good. Yeah, I see it. I see it. Because if it wasn't for the villain part, honestly, I think it was a pretty solid of an act.

SPEAKER_02 3:11:52

Yeah, I'm with you. Yeah. I feel I feel you.

SPEAKER_00 3:11:55

Okay. Uh, why don't you read act two?

SPEAKER_02 3:11:58

All right, act two, guys. Uh, Malekith attacks Asgard in an attempt to extract the ether from Jane, resulting in chaos and the death of Thor's mama, Frigga. Thor, fueled by grief and vengeance, forms an uneasy alliance with his imprisoned brother Loki. Loki's unpredictable nature drives much of the mission as they escape Asgard and attempt to lure Malekith away from the nine realms. Meanwhile, Jane's condition worsens as the ether continues to bond with her. The film shifts between realms as Thor and Loki try to manipulate Malekith into exposing herself himself during the convergence. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 3:12:41

Yes. So, um, let's see. Well, I'll I'll just start off with saying what worked for me for my part, then.

SPEAKER_02 3:12:48

Yes, please. Because you you had some from before. Yeah. That so bring it out over. Yeah. Some of that is some I agree with a lot of it.

SPEAKER_00 3:12:55

Yeah, some of I'll I'll say what the standout moment, so to speak, is in this one, as well as what the coincides with what for me. So uh I I did I love that when that dark elf guy and he's he's freeing all the prisoners and all that stuff, which it one it just goes to show you how strong are these shields actually, because at one instance he's doing those things and breaking them, and then another instance it's the same shields going up, and the ship crashes into it, and the shields are still going up. So part of me is like, what is this voodoo stuff that he puts in him that makes it go?

SPEAKER_02 3:13:30

You know, yeah, why not make a hundred of them, right? Like, yeah, why one just one guy to make make up make your army of these dudes and you win?

SPEAKER_00 3:13:38

Like all of your elves into this gun. Like, that's not hard, guys.

SPEAKER_02 3:13:42

Anyways, hybrid predator thing.

SPEAKER_00 3:13:45

What whatever maybe, but well, yeah, I I did like that he's releasing all the prisoners. He gets to Loki, he's looking at him, and he's just like, nah, I'm gonna pass. Yeah. Almost like I'm bad, but you just are just that bad. You're just worse.

SPEAKER_02 3:14:03

Yeah. We don't want you free because you might mess our plan up. You're gonna mess.

SPEAKER_00 3:14:08

Yeah, exactly. You can mess our plan up. Yeah. Um, also, I will say that that that scene of Thor flying away with his hammer when that is all happening, and they they all say they all think Loki is the reason why this is all happening. And I that if I could put this in the editing, guys, you're gonna see it because that cinematic spot of um Chris just bagflipping off of the railing and then lifts his hand up and Mirror just takes him away. One of the best cinematic moments I think Marvel's ever done for a character flying away.

SPEAKER_02 3:14:46

Yeah, I agree. Yeah, is that awesome?

SPEAKER_00 3:14:49

Yeah, that is awesome.

SPEAKER_02 3:14:51

Yeah, it is awesome. I agree with you. So yeah, I yeah, that's one of my favorite Stando moments of that too. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 3:14:58

When I saw that, I thought, holy smokes, man, they got the choreography, blah blah blah. That stuff right looks so good. Yeah. Anyways, yeah. Um I actually do like Malakeith a little bit in this act. Um the a couple of the parts that I will say that for him in particular stick out to me is his presence when he walks out of the ship and it lands. He he just looks like a badass when he's walking out there. I mean, despite despite the things, I didn't really I'm not really impressed with him and the other, you know, his origin. But that right there, when he's walking out and he's just looking around, he's just like, I got one thing, and then he sees the throne and he's like, Yeah, I hate this. And he he just throws it just out of spite to make it all crumble. That is so cool.

SPEAKER_02 3:15:47

Like, yeah, I just wish he did more badass things. Yeah, not he looks great, like I mean, yeah, this guy looks scary, but he just doesn't do anything that makes me feel afraid of him, is all, you know.

SPEAKER_00 3:16:00

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 3:16:01

Except for them doing the wonky science, it doesn't make any sense.

SPEAKER_01 3:16:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:16:05

By the way, Odin's like quick little he does to kill that guy, like the power he has with his staff. Why is he not just doing this to everybody? Like, what is Odin yet like he's like, Whoa, what is that? Like to one guy, one guy that's just already wounded.

SPEAKER_00 3:16:23

Yeah, he could have shown up like two minutes earlier and saved all his people.

SPEAKER_02 3:16:27

Just he'd have been done with this whole thing right now. Yeah, okay, Odin. Come on, yeah, curmudgeon oh father my ass.

SPEAKER_00 3:16:35

Yeah. Um then I gotta say, uh, well, I'm gonna save that one part actually for um let me make sure. Yeah, I'm gonna switch now that I I had my notes a little bit backwards, guys, on this. So I'm when I get to my favorite character moment in this act, I'll I'll reveal that to you there. But what also worked for me, I would say, um actually that is all the work for me. I listed most of the stuff for that. I think the only other thing I would say that I didn't list on here that I did like is uh Thor and Loki, their their whole dynamic of them escaping. That is in this one, right? Where there are that is some of my favorite scenes of the both of them together in this movie. Yeah. Is just their banter from Thor. I love the whole behind the scenes of them explaining what their plan's gonna be. Yes, and you're seeing it at the same time as their what if this happens? Well, that's when this character comes into play. What if this happens? All that stuff. That is so cool. That's actually what I was gonna say is that was gonna be part of what I talked about. That is yep. That is it's so that is so cool. It's smart, and yeah, and then to see Loki going along with it, and he stays in character, but yet still is doing what they want him to do. It's I tell you, it makes me like Loki, and he isn't my favorite villain, but he is so darn good.

SPEAKER_02 3:17:59

Yeah, he's up there though. He is up there though. Yeah, you can't deny it. And either way, as we do this retrospectives, how is he not?

SPEAKER_00 3:18:06

I know. Some of the minds. Might change. Yeah. Of the movies and the characters are going to start going like, he's just so good in this movie. It's so good.

SPEAKER_02 3:18:17

Like, I'm just gonna echo a few things that worked for me because uh all what you said, I'm with you. I like the fight between him and Frigga, the bad guy in Frigga. Yes. Excellent. She kicks some ass. Yeah. She'd have beat him. You know what I'm saying? Like easily. And like that's that's that's also a problem I have. Why is this guy such a big deal? Exactly. You know, it's like, okay, so but let's let's go to the stuff I like still. One of my absolute favorite, most badass moments, though, I love in this whole thing. And first of all, let me cover a couple things. The aerial stuff in this is awesome. Yes, it's awesome. I like that Loki's a step behind this time for the most part. Yeah, like he's like, Oh, these are your planes, you and Thor just kind of pushes him out the thing, and you're kind of like, wait a minute, what's going on? And then they land in the in the ship that's down lower, and Loki's like, okay, now I got you. I'm impressed. I'm impressed. And I'm like, I like that. Banter's per that's great between them. And it kind of shows Thor's smart, you know, smarter than just being a Thor, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_03 3:19:17

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:19:18

But when freaking uh what's his name? Um yeah, I don't have his name written down right now. Uh Idris Elba, though.

SPEAKER_00 3:19:28

Yes, yes, um, Heimdall.

SPEAKER_02 3:19:30

Heimdall, thank you. So on the tip of my tongue, guys. When Heimdahl realizes that that ship is invisible and he jumps down and then he runs up the thing and then jumps onto the ship, and that is so badass, dude. And then he falls and hits the thing and lands on what a bad see what I mean. I'm like that scene where I'm just like, because he's just like, oh, wait a minute, they got past me, and he just goes for it, man. And like that is some of the best stuff, and that's some of the part that worked for me the most, is his part in this movie, more so. Like when they're sitting there later, him and Thor are talking, because it kind of feels weird where I can't go watch and be at my post because you know I can't see what's coming. Like these things are invisible to us. I like that we got more of a character out of him than just that weird dude that's out there watching everybody all the time. And like you you so when in Ragnarok that pays off, right? Because of that reason, right? And I love that he just plays his part, and I like that how his part in them escaping or them tricking Odin so they can leave. Is he yeah, I'm here to report treason. He goes, It's me. And he's like, Oh man, look at a badass. But I love I like how I'm telling this, man. Like it's it was uh I love him in this sequence and this whole thing. Other than that, you echoed the rest of it pretty much dead on. You know, I I enjoy a lot of that stuff, and those bombs are wild, right? Like, what are they doing? Yeah, I'm trying to figure out I want them to tell us the mechanics of those bombs because they toss them and then you're like and you're gone. Does it suck you somewhere? Like, does it just turn you into atoms? Like, what does it do? Because it looks awful.

SPEAKER_00 3:21:04

The best I can describe them as it's like it's um, but you don't really see it. It's like it creates a little black hole wherever it sticks on, it just breaks down and disintegrated. It's like the opposite of an explosion. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 3:21:17

It's like an implosion of the implosion bombs. Yeah, they're awesome. They're really cool. Yeah, I think they're cool as hell. They look awesome, they sound awesome. They're they're just you know, they're just really cool. I enjoy them a lot. Yeah, yeah. Uh I like that they're part of the finale, you know, and they had their own little part in it. Wish we saw them again. Like, we need them. We need them. Where was it with Thanos? Yeah, hey, catch. So, okay, we're done. Like, right? It's like it's like easy. Well gone. Yeah, yeah. He'd be like, ah, it'd be awesome. Like he'd just be standing there with his nub, Thanos nub, you know, like his big old nub just flopping around.

SPEAKER_01 3:21:58

Yes, yes, exactly. I'm in. Anyways. In another multiverse. Yeah, you never know, right?

SPEAKER_03 3:22:06

All right, so what didn't work for you? So what didn't work is the same thing that didn't work for you. Okay. Alright. It's what's the danger here for Jane? If they can just do this?

SPEAKER_02 3:22:30

And why and if they could do it. You're telling me Odin and them can't figure this out? I am really confused about how they want us to feel about this ether and how it works.

SPEAKER_00 3:22:41

Well, also it highlights not to jump in there and and um cut in in what you were saying, it highlights another problem with a villain. If he's that powerful, he could draw an infinity stone out of somebody. Where is that power when you're fighting Frigat? Where is that power when you're doing some of the stuff you're doing? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:23:03

Like, anyways, but it's very confusing in that. And and I don't like that this was another like Odin wasn't gonna go along with his plan. Like it's because you know how much it would have worked if he'd just been like, hey, this is a great idea. Yeah, like this is that curmudgeon part of him that makes you go, Really, guy, you're gonna be like this again. You know, it's like, what's the deal here? Like, what's your deal? We'll die until the last drop of blood. It's like, well, maybe it doesn't need to be that way. Yeah.

unknown 3:23:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:23:31

Like, what the hell? Did you did you pass it along and see what everybody else thought about that? Because we have a great idea. Let's do this, you know. And I don't know. I just it just felt like a weird way to pace this movie forward. Um, and yeah, I'm not a fan of how that how that turned out. So why don't you go in in on that? I want I'm curious to hear what you got to say about that too, because we we both have that.

SPEAKER_00 3:23:58

So I the it's hard for me to explain how I think this is there's a problem with this here. Because they start they start off in in the movie a little bit with um they ask, how do we get this out of her? And Odin says, I don't know. And then Thor comes up with a plan of uh if Malakeith can bring this out of her, why don't we do this? But they don't even present it to Odin because they know exactly what Odin's gonna be like and how he's gonna be so stubborn and arrogant to be like, no, and then they're all gonna be cast in like treason or whatever they're gonna do. It's just that's it's like they really write Odin off as a jackass in this movie. Big time. And I guess you can say when you get to Ragnarok, you see that he had this before he became a benevolent king. He had a darker side to him, but he's not that anymore. That's the whole point of Odin's arc is that he's done conquering the realms and now he's just the all-father and just wants that's the whole point of Odin in the first movie. I'm peace, I want peace. Everything needs to be peace. Don't start a war, I will deal with it. They're just children. He's the one who's acting like a child in this one. He's not seeing the writing on the wall. Like, it's like, what's going on? Like in the beginning of this movie, he's already the hand the throne over to Thor, but yet he would not listen to Thor when it comes to this is my plan. Like, wouldn't you want to know how your son's gonna do when it comes to actual war and actual villains? Not to mention he's prejudiced to humans, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:25:32

Like, what a mean ass dude. Like, come on, guy. What a racist. I'm just saying, I wouldn't like it canceled tonight.

SPEAKER_00 3:25:46

All father old white men. Oh god. Yeah, but yeah, no, he's just all right. So if Malakeith can rip the ether from Jane without killing her, why couldn't Odin do that? Yeah, what's the hell yet? Not having Odin involved in any of the mission where the powers of Asgard could be very useful in a situation like that. Like, I I won't nitpick too much on it because I I did like how the story played out. I do really like Thor conniving to do this stuff and how to do it behind Odin's back and the dynamics worked. It's just that I feel like they in doing so, doing it this way, they had to make someone in that scene a bad guy, and they made it be Odin. When it it I know, it it took away a lot of some of the cool moments. So I'll say, okay, that's fine. It just isn't gonna be a nitpick then. You if you want something good, sometimes a little bad has to come with it, and that's what didn't work for me is that stuff. Um also Heimdao can't see the the ships coming in, and this technology has been around for so long. It was Odin's grandfather, you know they they didn't improve technology enough since then where they could detect a ship like this because whether is okay, so Odin comes into this saying they're all kind of like fairy tales type thing. There's just stories my grandfather told, they're not around anymore. But wouldn't you think that if those technologies were still available or accessible or they saw it happen, they would try to counterreact that when something like this happens?

SPEAKER_02 3:27:29

The only thing I'll say to that, because it it is part of one of my favorite things that happens in a movie when I'm all jumps on the ship, is if Odin truly believes they're not out there, I can see that that idea of needing that being lost.

SPEAKER_03 3:27:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:27:44

And it shows the ignorance of him. Yes. And I think that that'd be the only reason why it's like that. Because I agree with you. Wouldn't you be ready for such a thing, right? Yeah. But if if you really think that, oh, that's never coming back anyway, then yeah, this is it's to your own detriment, yeah, have you caused this to happen. Yeah. Which is what pisses more off about Odin, that out of all these guys, he should be like, oh man, we were wrong. But no, he doesn't do that at all. It's all, oh, well, we were wrong, so now we're all gonna die together, last drop blood. Yeah. You know, it's like, okay, guy, come on. You know, it's like, yeah. I'm I'm half the way there with you. It's like, yeah, really? But then at the same time, you know, it it's like if they never thought this would happen again or it would happen, yeah, then it's on Odin. He's the one that messed this up, right? To not pass this along and make this happen this way. Yeah. Which which I kind of get that feel. Yeah, I agree. That he won't admit to it. Maybe he's not worthy.

SPEAKER_01 3:28:46

Oh boy, guys. That's a reference to the first movie.

SPEAKER_02 3:28:48

How can he make something that you gotta be worthy for when he's not worthy? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:28:52

That's the thing that they did in this movie, and uh there's another character that they do this to Doctor Strange, when we get there. We'll get there when we get there. All the progress he made in his first movie, when you get to the second movie, it's out the window. That's what I didn't like. One of the reasons I didn't like about his own solo movie, the second one. Anyways, we'll get to that movie.

SPEAKER_02 3:29:09

Don't wait, don't we?

SPEAKER_00 3:29:10

But whatever. Um, the only other thing I'll say about this act that I I didn't like is the Eric going crazy scene. And this is the this is what I'll say about it in particular. I don't mind he went crazy. I actually think the logic of it, when he does explain it later, I had a god in my head, you try to figure that out. That makes sense to me. That is very true. What I don't like of the inconsistency is they should not have shown that scene in the first act of the television scene, and then in the second act, show Darcy finding out through the television scene. They should just save that all for the second act. That's that's the part where in my brain, when they're driving with Jane and they're talking about where Eric is and all that stuff, Darcy kind of knew that he went crazy. And then in the the second act, when the intern says, Is that your doctor guy? And she says, Oh yeah. I'm thinking, there's an inconsistency there. It's like they filmed it, but then when they put it in the movie, they didn't cut it right.

SPEAKER_02 3:30:09

Yeah, it's what they're piecing it together as they went with it. Yeah, I would have to do that. Some of that I think is just because they didn't know what to do with these characters, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:30:15

You know, for a while. Yeah, I just I just feel like in the very beginning they shouldn't have done they shouldn't have shown him in act one going crazy with a television thing. He saved that for act two, because that would have made more sense to me. That little inconsistency inconsistency there, I would say.

SPEAKER_02 3:30:29

Um something we haven't mentioned that does work real well in this whole thing is the when it does work well is when Loki like fakes the whole betrayant or oh that whole thing. That's all great.

SPEAKER_03 3:30:42

Yeah, actually.

SPEAKER_02 3:30:43

And then Loki dying, well dying.

unknown 3:30:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:30:47

Right. I think that all works real well. Because that's here. That's in this, right? That is. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:30:52

That is that that whole that whole scene of what they plan to do, like his plan continuing on with Loki after getting him out. Amazingly well done. Really well done. From uh the choreography part of it to how they're actually fighting to just the story writing of it, the execution. Really good. I loved when he l um threw his the lightning from his hammer up at the ether and it turned into the infinity stone to some pieces. Oh, yeah. All of a sudden it just all rises up and continues doing as it was doing. Yeah. I thought that was cool. It's pretty badass, yeah. Almost like he thought he could destroy the ether when it's in its raw form, and then you realize it's infinity stone. It's one of the reasons why the whole reality is here, and literally the reality stone, like you can't destroy it. Right. So yeah. Anyways, I thought that was that is really yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:31:42

I like this whole fight with the predator, yeah, you know, and like how it all goes down to you look, look at him. I mean, it's just a predator. Yeah, but it's I like I do like that. I just think there would be a hundred of them if the elf was smart. But like and but that's because he's beating a crap out of Thor. Like, yeah, yeah, I agree. I mean, and how powerful is this thing? Like, that's you the inconsistency of his power is is a problem because he knocks the hammer away. The Hulk can't even knock the hammer away. Yeah, what are we talking about here, right? Like, what is you're telling me this predator dude is the Hulk, basically, or more? Yeah. The only other one that knocks anything away from Clore was Thanos. Yeah. Really, that we ever saw.

unknown 3:32:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:32:27

I don't know. I don't know. That bugged me a little. But the whole scene is great, though. It's a lot of great fight, and uh, the way Loki died saving him. Well, yeah, and then he grabs him and does the thing. It's cool.

SPEAKER_00 3:32:37

That was really cool. I like that.

SPEAKER_03 3:32:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:32:39

Yeah. It's even funnier to think that not funnier, but um more interesting to think that that was their original intent of that scene was Loki actually to be dead. Yeah. And then it was later on they decided to add him as this not post-Cres scene, but like an end scene, kind of like they did in the first horror movie where it's just the end of it alluded to he's actually still alive.

SPEAKER_02 3:33:02

But they were intending for this to be his well, they must have added more scenes in because there's that scene when the soldier comes to him and tells him that we can't find thorough. He does and it's like before that happens, you see that green shimmer. Yeah. So it's like they definitely changed their mind very quickly.

SPEAKER_00 3:33:16

Oh, they they did, yeah, especially in the well, that was I think that was in the the the post-production or something when they're doing the visual effects, or we're gonna throw that in there because we're like, we really don't want him to go. Yeah, it makes sense. I wouldn't want him to go. No, he's so good. No, I'm I'm okay with all his fake deaths. Yeah, because like it's that's the character. I'm okay with him himself in this whole movie. He's the most consistent next to Thor in this whole movie. I agree. Yeah, anyways. Um, did the pacing hold up for you?

SPEAKER_02 3:33:45

Uh, yes and no. Right about the time we got off of Asgard, I felt a little okay, it's getting slow. Then it's oh cool. And then it's getting slow. And it's okay, yeah. Yeah, I I and I didn't really care for the earth stuff, the people just don't care. The Darcy and all them, they just were not funny in this one. Oh, really?

SPEAKER_00 3:34:06

Because I thought she was a lot funnier in the scene.

SPEAKER_02 3:34:08

No, the intern and all that I didn't find funny.

SPEAKER_00 3:34:10

Oh isn't that funny?

SPEAKER_02 3:34:12

I for some reason I I was just, oh, this isn't it's not as funny as I as I want it to be. There's moments where I chuckled, but no, I don't know. It just didn't it didn't set well.

SPEAKER_03 3:34:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:34:25

For some reason. I don't know. She got annoying quick. Oh, see, I thought the opposite for me recently. Sorry guys, she got annoying for me.

SPEAKER_00 3:34:34

For me, it went higher than it did the first movie.

SPEAKER_02 3:34:36

Oh, yeah. No, I kind of liked her in the disbelief and in the weirdness of the first movie. And this one, it's almost like I don't know, she's too, too nonchalant and just in the it come off as not funny and more m it came off I don't know, ultralistic almost in a way. Like I don't know, I'm not I just wasn't a fan of it. Yeah. For some reason. But that's okay. It's cool.

SPEAKER_00 3:35:00

Well, I echo everything you said about the pacing part. Yes and no. It definitely did hold up. I kept my interest the whole time. But yeah, there was that little spot in between the escape and the um the uh the Malake scene that was a little it was nice character moment for them. Very good, very good character moment. But it did it just it the pace went and then vroom.

SPEAKER_02 3:35:24

Yeah, yeah, I agree.

SPEAKER_00 3:35:26

Alright, so um best character moment for you.

SPEAKER_02 3:35:31

Um if I'm not gonna give it to Heimdahl doing this cool ass thing because my god, I love it when he jumps on that thing. It just does his thing. Um it might have to be that, Sam. I might not be able to think of any.

SPEAKER_00 3:35:44

Well, it's is that in the what I'm thinking is that in no, that isn't this part. Mine, I will I will say, because I had my notes split backwards, guys. Sorry. I know it might okay.

SPEAKER_02 3:35:56

Heimdall is one of my favorite moments. I love how Loki is just chilling there, like reading a book when there's a bunch of chaos going on. Love it. I think that's his uh one of my favorite because he's just kind of watching, like, what is this nonsense? You know, and I just like that he keeps his stature of you know, the because if he got worried and looked or whatever, you could have done anything in that scene. But to keep it where he Loki has this presence about him where he's kind of a snivelling little weasel, but yeah, he's very formidable too at the same time, you know. And that's what I like about him. Because even in that, like when he makes eye contact with the predator, yeah. Yeah, I'm calling this guy the predator, guys. When he makes eye contact with the predator, it's it's almost like the predator's like, yeah, no, not you. But even Loki's kind of looking at him like a daria. Yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? Like, and it's kind of like, oh, you are bad, bad. Like you're gonna make my boss pissed. Yeah, you know what I mean? Like, no, no, no, no, no. You stay, you stay here because he's gonna get mad at you.

SPEAKER_01 3:36:53

Like exactly, exactly what he's doing.

SPEAKER_02 3:36:55

So that but I do like him when he's just kind of sitting there reading his book and his everything's like blowing up and going crazy. I I like that. That's kind of cool.

SPEAKER_00 3:37:02

Yeah. Um, so I I'm I'm gonna say that my favorite character moment would be uh Frigga in that fight. Oh, yeah, it's great. Man, she I'm it's nice to see that she's not just a queen, but she actually has something to her. Yeah, and her fighting style is so unique that you don't see too many of them actually have. It makes me want to learn a little bit more about where she came from, how she became Elden's wife, what I agree, what her status really is type thing. Good choice, yeah. So it's it really is a great character moment for that scene. So uh what is your score for the second act?

SPEAKER_02 3:37:40

Uh this went up a little bit because the action in this part is awesome and the Heimdell thing, man. I'm telling you, I watched that. I'm like, that's so awesome. I give it an eight out of ten.

SPEAKER_00 3:37:49

Okay. I gave it a nine out of ten. Okay. I know that's a little high up out there, but up there, but um there. We talked about what didn't work for us, and it really was Odin being a dick pretty much for the most part. So that's the nicest way of saying it, guys. I hope I don't get censored for that. But yeah. Yeah, he just acts like a jerk the whole time.

SPEAKER_02 3:38:11

He really is um just a carmogene. Yeah, like just a big man child. Yeah, like I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 3:38:20

Anyways, this is just a downgrade for me. All right, so I'll read act three and then we'll get into that part, guys. The final battle across the realms. So during the convergence in Greenwich, Greenwich, Greenwich, Greenwich Greenwich, Greenwich, yeah. Greenwich, London, uh, Malakeith attempts to unleash the ether across reality. Thor battles across shifting portals between realms, while Jane uses her scientific knowledge to help disrupt the convergence. Loki appears to sacrifice himself while fighting Malakeith. Um wait.

SPEAKER_03 3:38:54

No. Yeah, that happened before. Yeah. That's before all this.

SPEAKER_02 3:39:00

That's okay.

SPEAKER_00 3:39:00

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I guess, yeah, I guess. Rewind. Alright, disrupt the convergence, seemingly dying in the process. Nope, that's still part of that. Alright, Thor. Thor ultimately defeats Malakheith by destroying his ship using clever manipulation of the realm portals. Peace is restored, but Thor declines the throne of Asgard, choosing instead to return to Earth to be with Jane. Meanwhile, Loki is revealed to be alive still, having secretly survived by impersonating Odin and take control of Asgard's throne. Yeah. Okay, sorry about my notes there, guys. As you could tell, uh, my notes are a little bit off a little bit on this episode. I guess I was really quickly doing it. But, anyways, um, the ending land for you.

SPEAKER_02 3:39:48

So the very end lands for me. The very end. I like that Zor goes to Jane. I like that uh Loki pretends to be Odin.

unknown 3:39:59

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 3:40:00

And Odin kind of is like, Yeah, go be yourself, the thore of the hammer's yours thorough. And you're kind of like, Oh wow, Mr. Crumudgeon turned nice. And then he's like, Oh yeah, of course. Yeah. You know what I mean? And like, and to me, I think that's all cool. Um, this end battle though in this courtyard and all that, I mean, it looks cool. It it's a lot of fun to watch, and the action it's a fun, and it's got probably one of one of the three top funniest scenes in it for me is in this battle. Um, I just didn't understand the stakes. I don't know why. I've watched this movie twice this last week, and I'm still trying to grasp exactly what Malikese is doing, and as I'm watching him do it, just what so what he's doing and his plan for everything is weird anyway. He just darkness okay, chill. It's like, but like he has this skill, ah, darkness, okay, cool, whatever. But like when I'm watching him do it and watching what they're doing to try to combat it, I just don't see where's the stop and the what with the what makes the what do what and how you do this with that. You know what I mean? I it's as confusing as I just sounded, is how I felt about this ending. Where I'm like, I get it. I mean, uh, you could oversimplify it and make sense, but I like things that are like, look, an army's coming through a portal and they're gonna take over the yours, and I'm gonna rule it. Oh, and there's a nuke coming. Well, he's gonna take and fly the nuke in after we destroy this thing all at the same time. And you just you understand what's going on, you know. Sokovia is we're bringing the land, we're gonna drop it and do this, we've got to make sure we do that. And it just, it just there's a clear-cut thing to a lot of these villains' plans. And this one just for me was just kind of like, well, it's the magic with the this and the that, and he's making darkness and he's doing that, and she's gonna do this. And when there's times she does something with the with the scientific stuff to help disrupt the thing, it's like they combine where they do it, and it's an unpredictable thing that happens, but it just so happens they know exactly what to do in the moment you have to have something happen. I just really was like, what's the mechanics of what's going on in this fight, in this battle? And what's you know what I mean? Like, it's just so happens that he's able to switch the device just right so the ship that's falling leaves and doesn't fall on them. But earlier they turn it and random things happen, and they're like, Oh, I didn't see that coming. It's like, what if he turned it and that didn't happen? You know, it's like it just for me, it kind of felt very convoluted and confusing to watch. Um, fun to watch. The special effects are great. Uh there's no real good fight in this. It just gets real dark and like this storm of something happening that I wasn't quite I just wasn't understanding like what they're doing. You know what I mean? And I maybe I I hope I don't sound dumb because I don't know. I just I don't like the the lack of clarity in this final confrontation. I like the confrontation though, I think it's fun, but yet we still don't get anything from this villain. What does he really do in the long run that's really bad? Like, I mean, I don't know. I just said I it it because of the convolutedness and how I wasn't so afraid of the guy, the urgency and all that just wasn't there for me. The stakes didn't feel earned, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_03 3:43:57

You know, I see that.

SPEAKER_02 3:43:58

I I it's very poorly explained. In my I guess I hope I hope I'm making sense and don't sound, you know.

SPEAKER_00 3:44:05

Yeah, no, you're you're fine.

SPEAKER_02 3:44:06

No, I don't want to sound like I've never seen this movie because I have. I've seen it eight times now, actually, in the long run. Uh and I still every time I'm kind of like, ah, this is what's going on. If you were to say, tell me in in like three sentences exactly what the mechanics of of this whole end battle were, it's almost impossible because it's it's so all over the place. Which I guess is adds to the chaos, which is fun to watch, but it's like you just I just didn't it didn't earn the urgency because I kind of felt like well, what's mattering here? You know? I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 3:44:40

I I do I get what you're saying. For me, I I would say um the I agree with the very beginning of what you were saying when that says the the the end the ending land for you and what happened with Loki and Odin and the the switch and all that stuff, um, and that bad guy was defeated. Yeah, it I didn't have that too much of a problem with the ending, but it's the same thing I was gonna I'm gonna say with my biggest issue with the act is to me it was anticlimactic. Yeah, so I this is my understanding.

SPEAKER_02 3:45:17

Yeah, explain it to me better because maybe I'm just not getting it, and I should, and I just don't for some reason.

SPEAKER_00 3:45:21

To me, and it might just be me trying to compensate for what I think is actually happening. So maybe I even have some of this wrong. But I and I actually put on here some of my my favorite moment for act three is the human involvement in the end battle because sometimes for this type of stuff and this these type of villains type thing, it's um and heroes. Sometimes the humans really don't have anything too much to do with it. Look at the first Thor movie. The humans didn't have anything to do with Thor being able to be worthy or not to get the hammer and all that stuff, just the heat sacrifices. I'm with you there. I do like that at least they're involved. At least they're involved. I like that a lot. There is there is there is something they could do to be involved in it, and they definitely they show that off. So the the these polls that um I think Eric created the polls.

SPEAKER_03 3:46:15

It's how do I explain this?

SPEAKER_00 3:46:20

Because I want to sound intelligent when I'm saying it too, because it is it is Hey, use layman's terms because I'm struggling with it.

SPEAKER_02 3:46:28

Use layman's terms, you gotta sound intelligent. Make it sound pretend I'm six years old because I'm I struggle with not that I don't get you're probably gonna say and I understand it, yeah, but it just it just seems like a mess to me, you know.

SPEAKER_00 3:46:40

But go ahead. It is no, I well, I would say to that regard, it is a mess. It the end battle, how they're figuring out who do does what part and it's all gonna work out for this, that is a mess. Yeah, it's and it's too unpredictable, which I would say maybe they did it as sort of this is a risky way of doing it then, and it just so happens, of course, in the movie, it's gonna end up in the good guy's favor. But there's so many chances for a big deal. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 3:47:08

Look, it bug it bugged me, but yeah, go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 3:47:10

Well, yeah, the so the polls are doing this thing where they're they're being part of the blending between the realms. So when they're activate them on, whatever is around that area will get zapped into another realm, and vice versa. That's why you get some of those crazy creatures to come in there. That big thing that's running at the very end is there, which never gets explained again, by the way. Yeah, that's things just out running around. Yeah, um, part of me is like, that's not mentioned anywhere. Like, anyways, whatever. Maybe it's still alive, who knows? But um yeah, so I from my understanding, I think their whole point of doing that was to I'm the Thor fighting him. I don't understand how he got big. That's that's a big thing that didn't work for me. How did he get big? Yeah, I don't know. Like I get it, he gets dark. He's got the ether in him, he's a dark elf, he's trying to make eternal darkness throughout all nine realms. I get that part. Darkness. But why'd he get big? There's no nothing in that unless this is part of the reality stone where he wanted to be big and rewrites reality of his molecules to get big. It never explains it though, so we're just left to that interpretation. That's what I don't like about it, and that he's too dare I say, easy to beat as a villain. Yeah, how did he uh how did that's why it's anticlimactic for me.

SPEAKER_02 3:48:45

How exactly, in your terms, I want to hear from you, because we've watched it this week. Yeah, how did they beat him?

SPEAKER_00 3:48:53

He got big and four punched the living crap out of him. Yeah, what is going on here? I that's see what I don't understand is when when they activate those things, all it's supposed to do is teleport them. But it it kind of makes it look like he um kind of like what happened in Ant-Man where they kind of go inside themselves type thing where he dies. Is I can't explain how they beat him.

SPEAKER_02 3:49:19

Because ultimately he dies because the ship shows up and falls on him, right? Is that it? Remember, he's laying there and he's looking up and like the ship and then it falls on him.

SPEAKER_00 3:49:27

Oh, that's right, because it goes through that thing as it oh, that's right, that's right. Sorry, it totally evade my mind because that that last scene, guys, it's just the last act in general. I'm just like, what the heck is it?

SPEAKER_02 3:49:39

What are we doing here? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:49:42

It just was to me, it was very anticlimactic. That was the biggest problem. And for me, when I was re-watching this movie, I've watched it two or three times, like you said. I always get to this last act, and my interest goes down in the movie. And after you see it for the first time, you're like, okay. Then you see it the second time and the third time, you're like, this is I don't want to watch this. Yeah, yeah, it's the nicest way to say about it. And it's just um I've said some of the good things I liked about it, and was the climax earned for me? Uh if the climax was yes, they stopped the guy in the last act that stopped the bad stopped bad guy from spreading eternal night, and that happened, yeah, the climax was earned in that regard. But it's hard to say the climax was earned when I also say it's anticlimactic.

SPEAKER_03 3:50:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:50:32

In doing so. I that's my problem with the third act, guys. I wish there was some bigger I'm not saying I want a bigger battle, but I want a smarter battle.

SPEAKER_02 3:50:43

Well, when you have a blah villain, you get a blah climax. Exactly. In my opinion.

SPEAKER_00 3:50:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:50:47

It's like if he would have built up better, then you could have had things to work with at the end, and it would have been you could have done some of the same stuff, but had actually something happening in the middle of that.

SPEAKER_00 3:50:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:50:58

You know, but we didn't.

SPEAKER_00 3:51:00

So there are parts of this I did like that worked with the humans doing stuff too, and actually having a role in it. I agree with all that, but uh it's just the the logic behind how they did it. It just was a little and guys, maybe I'm sounding a little weird to myself, and please correct Ike and I in the comment section if you're watching this. The let us know what your interpretation of the third act was, because we're having a hard time figuring out what they're trying to accomplish here.

SPEAKER_02 3:51:29

Especially, especially with this movie, guys, because we don't want to give in to the haters of this movie because it's not the wreck that they all say it is, with especially what comes up later on in the cinematic universe. This is better than some of the more movies of recent.

SPEAKER_00 3:51:51

Yeah, but this act doesn't help us defend it.

SPEAKER_02 3:51:53

Yeah, this is a problem we have, is we can't defend something that when we're watching it, we see, yeah, this is why there's a problem.

SPEAKER_00 3:52:00

Yeah, there's some illogic going on.

SPEAKER_02 3:52:02

Yeah, so I can understand why the haters out there have the hate. I still don't think it's as bad as you make it sound.

SPEAKER_00 3:52:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:52:08

You know, I I don't think it falls apart as much as Iron Man 3 falls apart.

SPEAKER_00 3:52:14

Yeah, no, I agree. Yeah, you know what I'm saying? Like Iron Man 3 That was a character. This this is a poorly written character, but that was a backwards written character.

SPEAKER_02 3:52:22

Yeah, well, Iron Man 3 is really good and then it just crumbles. Yeah. This stays really good all the way through. It does, but it just crumbles in any kind of sense at the end.

SPEAKER_00 3:52:33

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 3:52:34

And then that's what makes it feel unurgent and unearned.

SPEAKER_03 3:52:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:52:37

And that so it this is a better movie in that sense. I argue that this still is better than the first door movie.

SPEAKER_03 3:52:44

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 3:52:45

Yes, I agree. Even though I don't like this ending at all. Like, I don't know. It's such a weird yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:52:52

So all right, so um for you, uh what's your score then?

SPEAKER_02 3:52:58

Yeah, I was confused, but it looks good. So I'm gonna be fair to it and give it a five out of ten.

SPEAKER_00 3:53:04

Okay.

unknown 3:53:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:53:06

I I wrote down seven, but I really think because I'm having a hard time even explaining it to you what the ending is, I'm gonna say it's six out of ten for me.

SPEAKER_02 3:53:13

I appreciate that guy. That's hard to come down. You know, and especially when you you're trying to, you know, you're trying to be nice to this.

SPEAKER_00 3:53:20

Yeah. Because like I said, I don't want to give any of the haters any credit for yeah or credibility for what they don't like about this movie. It because this movie is better than what people say it is, but I do agree it's not the best it could be. Right. Agreed. All right, mid and post-credit scenes. There is a mid-credit scene of Lady Sif and Valstag delivering the ether, also known as the reality stone, to the collector, setting up for Guardians of Galaxy. And then the post-credit scene is back on Earth. Jane and Thor reunite, implying that their relationship continues. So, um, the purpose was to set up the Infinity Stones Guardians movie and that Loki is still alive. Oh no, no, that's not Loki is still alive. See, my notes are messed up today, guys. Um, how important is it to the MCU? Infinity Stones. Very important.

SPEAKER_02 3:54:12

Yeah, that first one for sure. It's a big deal.

SPEAKER_00 3:54:15

The second one, it's not important because we find out later they're not together.

SPEAKER_02 3:54:20

Yeah. I liked it though.

SPEAKER_00 3:54:22

It was good. It was a good moment. It was a nice moment. It was a good moment. Yeah, it I don't have a problem with it. What I kind of like is the behind the scenes about that that end credit scene is they wanted to redo the scene, but Natalie Portman at that time was unavailable to do the scene. So they had Thor's actual wife dress up as her and walk out and do the kiss. Oh, that's great. I didn't know that. That's awesome. Part of me is like, oh, you're getting to kiss your wife on set for a long time in front of the camera. As Thor.

SPEAKER_02 3:54:50

That's pretty badass. Yeah, yeah. Good for it. I just love that. That's a cool little tip. That makes that even better. Yeah, yeah. I love that.

SPEAKER_00 3:54:55

So I like I like that. Um I I put my so this might sound weird from my hype level, but I put it at like 75%. Yeah, I agree. Still at this point didn't know that these were gonna amount to the infinity stones.

SPEAKER_02 3:55:09

So I'm with you. That's a perfect way, because I'm it was enough to show me things as someone that doesn't know who this character is either. Yep. I'm like, what is this? So, but it wasn't a what is this in a bad way. It was uh, oh, I can't wait to see what this all means because this is wild.

SPEAKER_03 3:55:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:55:24

This pink girl and this gun and it's Benicio del Toro. Woo! Great actor, you know what I mean? I can't wait to see it didn't really amount to much really later, to be honest. Yeah. It's too bad because he's a great actor. Yeah. Um you really get a ton of great stuff. You could have had awesome, you know. I mean, his brother, Jeff Goldboom's character, is yeah way cooler. You know what I mean? But like now, wait till we get to Red Right. Anyway, see it. Oh, yeah. But yeah, no, but that's just definitely made me go as someone that has no idea what this is. Go, oh, I'm interested to see where they're going here because they're really expanding this now.

SPEAKER_00 3:55:56

Yeah. All right. So my uh score for the post-credit scenes are eight out of ten. Yeah, I agree. Okay. All right. Our deep dives, guys. We're gonna get into some of our favorite moments and characters and performances of the movie. So your best performance, you would say.

SPEAKER_02 3:56:12

So I agree with what you put on here. Um, I would have to give it to Tom Hiddleston over Chris Hemsworth, though. I'm gonna give once again, I think Loki steals the show in this movie.

SPEAKER_00 3:56:23

Yeah, I yeah, I put Chris Hemsworth and Tom Hiddleston, but I will say if I had to pick between the two, like who ekes a little bit over, it will be Tom Hiddleston. Yeah. Because uh I loved Thor, of course. Like I said, this is my favorite Thor, but I will say that Loki is very consistent. It just makes me it reminds me of what I liked about him in the first Avengers movie, just in this movie too. Um so yeah. Most surprising performance.

SPEAKER_02 3:56:49

Uh Heimdell. Uh humanizing him and making him very relatable was a very big surprise, and Idris showing his acting chops brought that out in an instant. My second was Renee Russo, but I'm I had to go with Heindel because I just it's not just because of the epic, cool scene. I just I I really love the scene where him and Thor just sitting there talking, and you kind of get this idea that oh, there's a friendship there. He's not just a gatekeeper to Iisgard, he knows these guys, he knows these people, and and I and it it excites me for what we get later, you know. So in the retrospect, it yeah, yeah, I'm guilty of that guy's uh knowing what comes later for Heimdell. It just means more to me. I just I love that. And it's surprising to me. It's like, wow, I can relate to this dude. He's probably the weirdest out of all of them, you know, and weirdest looking helmet, weirdest looking eyes, you know what I mean? He's got the worst job, you know, and he's just he's just a cool cat. You know what I mean? Like I just I dig him, yeah. So I that's what I have to go with.

SPEAKER_00 3:57:46

Uh I put for my uh surprise performance as Renee Russo, yeah, because you really got to see not only her acting chops a little bit more in this one. She's not just that woman just standing there. But um, yeah, she was she was just really, really good. So what is your weakest performance?

SPEAKER_02 3:58:04

Weakest performance. Um yeah, I'm gonna have to give this to Christopher Eccleston. Um, not because he's a bad actor. I've seen him do a lot of stuff before. It just there's nothing there for this character. You know, he couldn't be what he should be. You know, the scary, we need a bad guy. And there's just this is a blank page. So that's my opinion. But once again, this is the same problem though. It's not the actor, it's the writing. Exactly. It seems to be this is a theme that Marvel has of recent, or or that I'm noticing as we do our retrospectives, is like even our weakest performances. There are some later that we go through where it is a bad actor. And I I don't like to do that because I'm not an actor myself, so I really feel bad by calling someone a bad actor. But yeah, once again, it's the same theme, though. It's you got a great actor with just a non-part, you know, and I feel bad for him because he's good. He I wish he had something to munch on, though, and give us, you know.

SPEAKER_00 3:59:12

Yeah, yeah. No, I agree. I I don't I I put him the same same thing. I completely agree with you. He's the my um weakest uh performance act of the actor. He's he looks great in the role, he looks great. Yeah. And the times where I do see him do the acting part, like when he's walking in to on that scene and acting like a badass type thing, he does looks really well and performs it really well. Um, and the dialogue they give him, he doesn't really well. I just think he's poorly written as a villain. Yeah, and that's the flat problem of the whole thing. Yeah, very flat. That's the maybe that's the whole thing that um a lot of the fans really don't like about is that it's just he is a flat villain. He could have been more menacing and they didn't do that. So yeah. Uh who's your casting wins or misses?

SPEAKER_02 4:00:04

So casting wins, I think it's casted brilliantly still. Yeah. I have no problem with any of the casts in the tour. And so I'm not gonna have any misses. Um why I say that is once again, I'm gonna I'm gonna die on this hill that it's not Christopher that messes roll up.

SPEAKER_03 4:00:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:00:17

I'm I'm giving this all to I'm gonna give this all to uh the writers, it's all on you guys. You got a great cast, and this is what you do. Come on.

SPEAKER_03 4:00:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:00:26

You know, this is this cast is fantastic.

SPEAKER_00 4:00:29

Yeah. No, I agree. I I I completely agree. I think that that is I I if I had to write someone in, pardon me wanted to write Christopher in, but the the the re the thing is he's not a casting miss. He was a writing miss.

SPEAKER_02 4:00:46

That's right. So that's right.

SPEAKER_00 4:00:48

Yeah, there's there is no misses when it comes to the casting.

SPEAKER_02 4:00:51

If there's any win in this that that like claimed their point, yeah, I it would be Heimdahl.

SPEAKER_03 4:00:57

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:00:57

Yeah, but that was that's just because it they gave him more to do. You know, I just wish they put that kind of that kind of uh detail in our villain. You know, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:01:06

Oh yeah, no, Heimdall.

SPEAKER_02 4:01:07

Just a couple of good scenes have been.

SPEAKER_00 4:01:08

Renee Rousseau really showed her acting chops in that. And even Nalie Portman was better in this one than she was in the past. I agree. I agree. Yep, I agree. All right, missed opportunities or waste of potential, whether it's the cast story or characters.

SPEAKER_02 4:01:22

Uh yeah, I think we touched on some of this earlier too. I I really think the missed opportunity here was to explore more with the with the ice giants, though. From the first movie. Uh and that's gonna come into like what I would do differently later. I I I I get the I guess the biggest the biggest one though is if we are gonna do the Dark Elves, which it it's it's good they did them. I'm glad it's a thing that they wanted to do. But honestly, the missed opportunity um for me actually came while we were doing this because I I was trying to think what would be a great miss. So I have two missed opportunities. Number one is you can Could have done 20 more minutes of the fish out of water for Jane and Asgard, would have filled a little more time in, and then you could have rushed, not rushed, but made the pacing of the movie feel a little snappier and there wouldn't have been that dull moment in the middle. Um, other missed opportunity for me would be when it comes down to the villains, uh, in that sense, where it if you got elves that have magic, like why aren't we doing that?

SPEAKER_03 4:02:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:02:26

Like when you said that, I'm like, that's gotta be something I bring up later in this uh in this spot because yeah, well, I didn't I didn't know that till you said that tonight. And now that I realize that, that is a missed opportunity. Holy cow, how cool would that have been? You could have had a really cool, more fun, climac scene that made more sense. It wasn't so convoluted if you had the magic stuff going on to it at the same time. I think that'd have been unique.

SPEAKER_00 4:02:48

I think what they did for my this this is the only defense I'm gonna give to not doing that. Because I agree. That is my missed opportunity, is how they handle the dark elves in particular, but Malekiv too, um, just as the main villain, but them in general, is that um that I think they're so early still into the MCU where they don't know how to touch and handle magic. They introduced the idea of magic in Thor one, but we don't really see him utilize any of that. Yeah. And then you get the Thor two, and you're still in this magic era, but you don't know. We haven't gotten to Doctor Strange yet. We haven't gotten to some of those other mystic arts type stuff. And I think that they just were very hesitant on how do we do this. Because technically speaking, this would be the f if they did them properly and did them that way, this would be the first time magic magic as an action, not just a concept that we saw in 401, but as an action would have been introduced.

SPEAKER_02 4:03:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:03:51

And I don't think they would have known how to do it.

SPEAKER_02 4:03:54

Let's be honest, they still don't know how to handle magic in the MCU.

SPEAKER_00 4:03:59

Yeah, let's let's be honest. That when it comes to magic and defining it, they are struggling for some reason. I don't know why. Yeah, I don't know about it. It's not hard, honestly, to do, but yeah, they they do have a hard time still.

SPEAKER_02 4:04:14

And I think they're having trouble with the supernatural part of it too. Oh, for sure. Because of it.

SPEAKER_00 4:04:19

It's all intermingled.

SPEAKER_02 4:04:20

Yeah, because it mingles in, yeah.

unknown 4:04:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:04:22

All right. So direction and production, guys. Um, what is your thought on the Yeah?

SPEAKER_02 4:04:27

I can hit these real quick because I'll be honest with you, they're all it's all like basic level, directed well, CGI looks good, the action is there, just like the first movie. Um, I will say there's an improvement on the music in this movie. Ever since Avengers, it seems like the music's getting better. Yeah. They're they're getting a little more, yeah. Let's get a more score about it. Let's have a bigger theme about it. When you come into Asgard in this one, and the music just roars, and like, oh, this is getting nice. Yeah. It's like now it's not just plain old stuff. It's like this is we're really getting some sort of feel here.

SPEAKER_00 4:04:56

So yeah, and it's becoming more noticeable too, in a good way.

SPEAKER_02 4:04:59

Yeah, so that's the standout to me. Other than that, everything's pretty much on par.

SPEAKER_00 4:05:02

I'm completely agreeing with you. All right. Do you have a hot take for this movie?

SPEAKER_02 4:05:07

I do.

SPEAKER_00 4:05:09

Oh, do you want to go first? Sure. Okay, go ahead. And come at me, guys. This is the best iteration that we have had of Thor.

SPEAKER_02 4:05:20

I know why you like it. It's the eyebrows are brown.

SPEAKER_00 4:05:25

Not the blonde, blonde eyebrows.

SPEAKER_02 4:05:27

It's the eyebrows, gotcha.

SPEAKER_00 4:05:28

He's got the right hair, he's got the right look.

SPEAKER_02 4:05:31

I think he's still lacking the human touch of the silliness more. I still think there could be a little more of a human touch to him. I understand why you think that of this him. I still think Ragnarok Thor is almost, in my opinion, like my favorite version of him. I don't know if it's the best. I don't think this is the best. I do think his best might be Infinity War. I really like that Thor, but that Thor in Infinity War is very much Ragnarok Thor, too. So a little difference is, but not by much. You know what I mean? Like the only difference is he destroyed his whole home. You know what I mean? So I'd see the Infinity War Thor is kind of a sad Thor. You feel real bad for him, you know. Like obviously Endgame Thor is sad Thor. Sad, sad Thor. But it's more like living in depression, Thor. When Infinity War Thor is like he's like that mix of I'm silly, but this is serious, because I just destroyed my home. He was Thanos, we gotta do something. But I do I love Thor and Ragnarok, man. I just like his the way about him and that.

SPEAKER_00 4:06:36

See, the thing about Thor in Love and Thunder is he has the look like similar to this one that is so good, but he's got the over-the-top silliness, silliness personality that to me kind of dampens it.

SPEAKER_02 4:06:53

So your perfect Thor is this Thor mixed with Infinity War Thor.

SPEAKER_00 4:06:59

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 4:06:59

I'd say that'd be your Thor.

SPEAKER_00 4:07:01

Yes, I would agree. I think if I hadn't just picked one overall, this would be it. But if you add a touch more of the natural humor for him, where he's actually playing up to it more, and not just the fish out of the water humor we saw in the first one, or the coincidental humor we see in this one in uh Thor 2 Dark World, if you add the more of I'm gonna be a little more funny now.

SPEAKER_02 4:07:25

See, my my funniest Thor is Fat Thor. It's depressed Thor at Endgame because he's drunk all the time and the way he acts. He to me, that's peak funny for me. Not so much what they did in Love and Thunder. I do love like Love and Thunder.

SPEAKER_03 4:07:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:07:41

But I really like that fat thorough. I'm just the way he talks, the way he is, he fell asleep. He's like, is he dead? You know what I mean? Like just how he how he talks. I just like that. And then, of course, one of my favorite iterations of him that we get at the end is Viking Thor. It's awesome. He's just braided up, he's like, Captain America says, Let's go. He's like, it's like that. I love that thorough.

SPEAKER_00 4:08:04

He looks like a legit Viking.

SPEAKER_02 4:08:05

Oh, yeah, and he's more so in that one.

SPEAKER_00 4:08:07

Like these ones you could argue he's Viking-ish, god Viking. Right, right. That one, he's full.

SPEAKER_02 4:08:13

He's a nomadic Viking. Like he's a berserk. Yeah. Mm-hmm. I knew it and he smashes. I can never go over that. But anyway, that kick, man. Oh, anyways. It is. And it's quick. Yeah, it's like I knew it's like, oh, he's gone. Um we're gonna joke about that all the way up to that movie, guys. Yeah. Uh yeah. I like that. My hot take is this movie is the exact same movie as the first movie. Without the hammer stuff.

SPEAKER_03 4:08:43

Think about it. Think about it.

SPEAKER_02 4:08:45

The only thing lacking in this movie is the whole, are you worthy of the hammer? That's the only thing lacking. This movie still ends or has Loki in charge, kind of, on in Asgard. It's got Thor, you know, arguing with Odin, going behind his back. Arguably, I would say, doesn't Thor do the same thing in this movie that he does in the first movie that gets him kicked out of Asgard by going to do something about something behind Odin's back? They do the same thing.

SPEAKER_00 4:09:17

Well, so no. This is my defense on that. In the first movie, he's using his arrogance to lead the way to start a war that doesn't need to be started. Whereas this one he's he's not he's letting his smart tactics lead the way in devising a plan to stop the bad guy from can from continuing in mainly not just stop the bad guy, save Jane. I'm with you.

SPEAKER_02 4:09:47

It's he's right in this one compared to the last one who's wrong.

SPEAKER_03 4:09:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:09:52

Although it's the same story beat. It's him still defying his father. That is doing something. And like to me, it's kind of like we're just doing this again.

SPEAKER_00 4:10:02

The only difference is the father is acting like the child this time. I couldn't agree more.

SPEAKER_02 4:10:07

Oh, yeah, no, there's differences, but it's like it really, when you put it back to back, though, you're kind of almost like, I guess, oh, this is kind of the same movie. It's just kind of the same movie. I see what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_01 4:10:18

I see your points. I just don't agree with that. I gotcha. I gotcha.

SPEAKER_02 4:10:22

I do feel like this is the same movie with a worst villain.

SPEAKER_00 4:10:26

Yeah. That's true. That I the worst villain.

SPEAKER_02 4:10:30

I'm not dying on the hill. I'm just, it's a hot take.

SPEAKER_00 4:10:32

It is a hot take.

SPEAKER_02 4:10:33

I think it's if I had time and we were doing a movie fights episode. If we ever want to do that someday, I think when we're done with our, I'm gonna pitch something to Sammy guys, I'm gonna pitch it right now. Uh, someday when we're done doing our multiverse uh retrospectives, I'd like to do a movie fights thing where we sit here and we are both given a thing that we have to pick one opposite side of the other, and then we have to do we need someone to mediate, and we'll do uh point by point and see if we win. And that if I was doing it, I would argue that it's the same movie. I think I could beat you.

SPEAKER_00 4:11:03

Oh boy. I think we should do it.

SPEAKER_02 4:11:04

We'll talk about that, guys.

SPEAKER_00 4:11:05

That sounds like a cool trick takedown segment.

SPEAKER_02 4:11:08

Yeah, there's there's a group uh there's a group screen junkies did a thing called movie fights back in the day, and I they their whole company kind of fell apart and uh for whatever reasons. And I kind of miss watching those because they're a lot of fun, and I think it'd be something that we could have fun doing with because we could do whole segments on just Marvel stuff. Oh, yes. Oh that was like what like who would win you know Infinity War Iron Man or Endgame Iron Man in a fight? Like that'd be a fun argument to have. You know what I mean? Like we just would have to either pick out of a hat or pick whichever one, and then we just have because what was neat about those movie fights is sometimes you had to argue against what you actually felt. But you you pick it out of the hat and it'd be something you disagree with, but you still gotta argue for it, and it's a lot of fun. I think we could have a good time doing that.

SPEAKER_00 4:11:52

That sounds fun. That sounds really fun.

SPEAKER_02 4:11:53

You would just do it with just MCU stuff, it'd be fun. That'd be hilarious. We'll be doing that. We could have a lot of laughs, we could have a lot of good times with it. I think it'd be a lot of fun. So I'm pitching it to Sam. You know, we'll talk about it. I know it's we can't call it movie fights because someone else had that already, but we'll come up with something cool.

SPEAKER_00 4:12:08

Well, we already came up, we we thought of a segment for doing game stuff like that called trivia takedown. Yeah, this could be part of it. This this could be trivia takedown. Or you know, we could do different games in that, but yeah, you know, that'd be our section. That would be cool.

SPEAKER_02 4:12:22

Especially if we can't we have to write a bunch down and then we'll pick out a hat and your guy versus my guy. Yeah, we just go for it and see how it goes. Oh, that'd be a good time.

SPEAKER_00 4:12:32

That'd be a good time. I uh it'll be fun because depending on who I pick, like randomly out of a hat, it's it might not be who you like. Yeah, yeah. If it's someone I don't like, I'm gonna have to be like, I have to BS my way out of this. That's right. That's right. That's right. Yeah, yeah. All right. Okay, so um all right, quick fire questions, answer fast, don't overthink. Best scene of the movie for you.

SPEAKER_02 4:12:56

Best scene in the movie for me is um Loki and his mom. Love it. Like I said, for all the reasons I said before, it just sticks out to me. Um, it's it's great between those two people. And like I said, I really like that when he reaches out, she reaches out, and it's like they have the same kind of thing. And it just it brought that it brought us back to liking Loki again after seeing him be such a mean ass in Avengers, you know? Because but then you realize he can still be mean, but there's still a there's still a a being under there that that wishes to be loved ultimately in the end, even though he wants to be worshipped, you know, he still has that wanting to be loved feeling, you know.

SPEAKER_00 4:13:37

So Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 4:13:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:13:39

Uh best scene for me is Thor and Loki's attempt to stop Manlif and trick him. I think that was really G's plan, uh, right there, going up against the big baddie like that and how he how they would do it. It just it didn't turn out in their favor at the end. But I think that was really cool.

SPEAKER_02 4:13:55

Yeah, I'm with you on that. I I understand. That's good.

SPEAKER_00 4:13:57

All right, least favorite scene for you.

SPEAKER_02 4:14:00

Least favorite scene for me is uh it's definitely the the uh end fight. Um specifically the for last few moments where Thor's kind of fighting his way into the middle there, and what's he just hit him and just I I don't under yeah, I just it it bothers me.

SPEAKER_00 4:14:17

Mine I wrote is the exact same way.

SPEAKER_02 4:14:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:14:20

I wrote that too. All right. Best villain moment for you though.

SPEAKER_02 4:14:24

Uh I I like the interaction between Malikus and Rene Russo, and and I like the interact, the fight and the and them talking, like what what it's like. I that was that was the only moment of the villain I liked was okay, this guy, there's something going on, we're gonna see something, and we still didn't. But it was like a good, like we almost got there. And from what we almost got, I was like, this could be good, this could be really good, and it just it fails to continue, but that's his best moment. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:14:54

I I should have wrote that too, because that really is a great moment, too. I just I just liked his entrance in the Asgard Palace. He was a massive it just he looked like I'm here to do some business. Yeah, I agree. Did he? I don't know, but he he actually he at least acted the part for that, yeah. All right, most punchable face for you.

SPEAKER_02 4:15:12

Odin. He needs a good old sucker punch. In the moments of him just acting like the old curmudgeon of just arguing with Thor about things and how he's treating Jane, someone needed to just reach over and just give him a little crack. Like, chill out, bro. Like, you know, you're supposed to be the best of us, and you're acting like an idiot. Yeah, Odin. Yeah, sorry, man. As a character, he just needs a good old crack to the dome.

SPEAKER_00 4:15:37

And doing our retrospective, I completely agree with you. I'm gonna say the same thing, guys. Odin, he which is funny because I still love him in this too. I I do like him, yeah. But it's just that he acts like a child, and so yeah. Alright, so one prop you take home.

SPEAKER_02 4:15:54

So I kind of like the dark elves' masks.

SPEAKER_00 4:15:57

Those that, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:15:59

I think one of those hanging on the wall would be kind of cool. That would be I struggled with the prop in this one. Yeah, there wasn't a lot of things to pick from.

SPEAKER_03 4:16:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:16:07

Which is funny to say because there's a ton of stuff in this.

SPEAKER_03 4:16:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:16:10

You know, and and I don't want to say the ether. It's weird. You know, I'd rather have the infinity stone set like the gauntlet, you know what I mean? But that's later, right? Yeah. Um, and I don't even know if that'd be the prop from that movie, because there's also props in there too, you know. So um, yeah, I I I I'm gonna go with the the Dark Elves masks, they're really they're real freaky looking and they're kind of neat. And I think that'd be kind of a cool thing to have.

SPEAKER_00 4:16:36

That's uh that's a really good um that's a really good pick. I I did have a hard time figuring out what prop in in this movie, because you know, you're watching the whole movie and all that stuff, and you're you're you're trying to pick out something that is distinctly for this movie that you can't say it's in any other movie type thing or something that reminds you of this movie and everything. Oh yeah. Um the two things that I wrote down were um one of those black hole sucking devices, the things that the bombs? The the bombs, yeah, that'd be kinda cool. That'd be cool to look at. Yeah. Or the the keychain that they're throwing back and forth, and then Jane finds it in the um when they find out this is the spot where they could could go back to Earth. Okay, yeah, that's a good one. It's a Rubik's Q keychain. Yep, that's good. I like that. My only worry is if you put that on a shelf and you look back at it later, am I gonna remember that story? So it's it's so hard to pick. Pardon me, I also thought I would should have written this down, but the shoe that Eric is using in the um in the homeless shelter place. Yeah, that would be bad. It turns out to be Stan Lee's shoe. That's right, yeah. But even then, would you remember it? That's the thing. Yeah. So I think the best one that I would actually remember would be that little black hole sucking device thing, Majig. That little bomb thing.

SPEAKER_02 4:17:59

Yeah, those dead.

SPEAKER_00 4:18:00

That's a good pick. Not not the explosion, the in the implosion ones. The implosion things. Alright, um, most underrated moment for you. I had a hard time filling this part out because now as we've been talking about this, I think I know what my underrated and overrated moments would be.

SPEAKER_02 4:18:24

My my most underrated moment, I think, is the interaction between Loki and um Odin. Like we talked earlier how you he's like, you meant to die on a rock. Like that is a great scene. And I don't know if it gets talked enough about. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:18:42

Yeah, that that is a good underrated moment. I I would say for myself too, would be uh the scene of Loki and his mom and Frigga. Yeah, I think I think that it gets it's underrated because it it reminds you of when she says, Am I not your mother? and he says no, but really he wants to say yes, but he says no in the moment because logically speaking, in his brain, she really isn't the biological mother, but the she is the one person that he still has a connection.

SPEAKER_02 4:19:14

He's and he's mad, you know, he's not happy with where he is.

SPEAKER_00 4:19:17

And yeah, so yeah, she's the one who's willing to do stuff for him while he's still making him comfortable. So that I think that's a little underrated for Loki's character. I agree, yeah. Overrated moment.

SPEAKER_02 4:19:28

Uh anything to do with the intern. I don't find that stuff funny at all. Yeah, it just didn't it didn't land with me. I know it did with you, but it didn't with me.

SPEAKER_00 4:19:39

Yeah, I get it. I get it. Well, I would overrated moment for me. You're probably gonna hit you for this internet and maybe my brother. Oh no Logie's death scene. Get out of here.

SPEAKER_02 4:19:52

That's it, we're done. Guys of multiverses collapse. There's been a convergence. Cyclops is gonna bust through the wall and just destroy everybody. Jeez.

SPEAKER_00 4:20:06

Don't get me wrong. It is a good scene between them together, but it's overrated in that we know what happens later. He's not dead. It's all just for show, and they even poke fun of it in Ragnarok. But if you're watching it for the first time, for the first time, it's not overrated. Just like what I said about in the Avengers one. For the first time watching that circle thing, that's not bad. For the retrospective review, it's overrated.

SPEAKER_02 4:20:35

Come on. Come on.

SPEAKER_01 4:20:39

What happens when you put the same song on repeat over and over again?

SPEAKER_02 4:20:43

See, because I'm gonna I'm gonna jump just to tell you. That's my most emotional movie. Is underrated, as overrated as you think it is. That when he says I didn't do it for him, come on. Do you think he meant he meant that? He did. I think Loki, I think Loki means it whenever he says it. I think he means it. I just don't think like Thor says in Ragnarok, it's just your nature to not do it. And I think that that I think Loki means these things, but he just it's in his nature to not stick with it. So when he's laying there dying, he wants Thor to think he's dying, right? But I think he I think it is something he wanted Thor to think of I didn't do it for Odin, I didn't do it for him, I did this for you. Like he wants that.

SPEAKER_00 4:21:31

Yeah, he wants him to think it, but I don't know if it's I think he feels it feels it.

SPEAKER_02 4:21:35

No, I think he feels it. I think that's what's unique about Loki. Is and and I why I say that is because I know this is gonna be crazy to say coming from me. But when I watch those scenes in the Loki show, I know, I know, I'm a like bitch about the shows all the time. But when I watch those scenes in the Loki show when he's talking with what's his Owen Wilson, yeah, wow, you know, when he's talking with Owen Wilson. Wow, yeah, Loki, yeah, wow. You know, when he's talking to him, it's he calls him out on those things in those moments in his life. Yeah, he says, You have always been in your own way, his best tricks are the most honest things he's done. And that's to me, that's speaks to that the most. So when I see that, it almost retrospectively means more knowing that than it does not, for me at least. Because I'm like, he says that to Thor. He means he wants Thor to be his big brother, he wants that, he wants that so bad, but he just doesn't feel it because he's not for real that. And it's not in his nature to do that, which is why he's the way he is, and it's why they keep like Thor says in Ragnar is we're gonna just keep doing this back and forth, like always. It doesn't matter, you know what? I'm gonna love you for it no matter what. And it's it's also Loki coming to terms with that as well. I think he means it. I really do, and I and I and if he doesn't mean it, even if he doesn't mean it, it meant a lot to Thor. And and we care more about what Thor thinks in the long run.

SPEAKER_03 4:23:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:23:09

And and that's to me, that's why it's the most emotional. Definitely not the most overrated. I don't know what the hell this guy's talking about.

SPEAKER_00 4:23:17

I'll let him have it. He can have it. You know, I I get it. I gotcha. I'm gonna keep mine the way it is, I gotcha, but I appreciate you explaining that to me because it is a different side of Loki. It's a perspective to get into the the mental part of how Loki thinks and how he's complicated.

SPEAKER_02 4:23:33

Because he's complicated.

SPEAKER_00 4:23:34

He is complicated, he's complicated. He's definitely one of those character studies that you'd have played.

SPEAKER_02 4:23:39

Oh, for sure.

SPEAKER_00 4:23:40

And Tom Hillson nails it perfectly. And I and the writing for him, no matter who's doing him, is really good.

SPEAKER_02 4:23:46

So okay, guys. Gives me the jitters. Funniest.

SPEAKER_01 4:23:58

Almost, you're so good at it.

SPEAKER_00 4:24:00

A funniest moment for you.

SPEAKER_02 4:24:02

I Okay, I got two. Okay. I laughed out loud twice. And one was actually in the end scene when they're fighting. But there's a scene where he's in the subway. There's how I get to Grenage Village from here. And then it's like, yeah, the next stop. And he just gets on and waits. And I'm like, that's hilarious. That is funny. It doesn't really amount to much, but it is funny. I laughed out loud. The other one is when they in during their planning of escaping Asgard, they get into the ship and Thor doesn't know how to turn the stuff on. Yes. And he's and he's just like, yeah, this and that. And he's like, you don't know what the hell you're doing. I just I laughed out loud because that that was like like this is a fun movie, right here. I enjoyed this movie.

SPEAKER_00 4:24:39

I love that. I love when uh look if I remember right, Loki says, I thought you said you knew how to fly a ship. And he said, I I said it how hard can it be? Yeah. And he's just like, he's like, maybe not that one. I'm pressing all the buttons.

SPEAKER_02 4:24:54

That's hilarious.

SPEAKER_00 4:24:55

That's perfect.

SPEAKER_02 4:24:56

That's great. Anytime Thor is like just out of his element, it's funny. Especially when he's trying to do something serious.

SPEAKER_00 4:25:03

He plays it so well.

SPEAKER_02 4:25:04

Yeah, he does a real good job.

SPEAKER_00 4:25:06

Yeah. Oh, geez. Yeah. So um, funniest moments for me, I would say is most of Loki's commentary. Oh, yeah, it's great. Especially during that second act when he impersonates Steve Rogers to be like someone more comfortable. And then he turns Thor into Lady Sif as they're walking, and he's like, Well, looking so good, brother. And I think Thor says, Doesn't matter what I'll take more delight or I'll take delight no matter what form I'm in to kill you, and something like that.

SPEAKER_02 4:25:35

It's funny, we never did bring up the Steve Rogers technically a cam going away. He he came to do that, right? Like it's I love that because it's like it's just not it's so out of the left field.

SPEAKER_00 4:25:45

I have to see how they got him to do that because if I remember right, and this is just my recollection, please go in the comments below and tell me if I'm right or wrong. Um, I think he just stopped by on set one day and they said, Why don't you throw him the costume? We have an idea, and they did it. Yeah. I don't think it was a pre-planned as in like they wrote it into the script. I think this is a oh, let's throw you in there, great Easter egg. I I think that's what what happened.

SPEAKER_02 4:26:12

But anyway, Oh guys, and don't sleep on Chris Evans being silly. Like they they we they've always kind of alluded to the behind the scenes, the the goofball of them all. Yeah. And they all point to him. It's because Robert is silly outward, like it you'd think it would be him, but Chris Evans is one silly dude. I mean, he's when you see him acting that way in that scene, or then how we see him act in Deadpool Wolverine, he's a one funny guy. Like, I I wish I wish he'd do a role someday that just really opens that up. Like yeah, it's he really hasn't done that yet, you know. And I'd love to see him just kind of spread his wings and just be a wacky, like some wacky character would be cool.

SPEAKER_01 4:26:51

He gets close a lot.

SPEAKER_02 4:26:53

He does, yeah. Yeah, like he he really does, yeah. And and especially in some of this stuff, like like in that moment was like, Oh, it's funny, he's hilarious.

SPEAKER_00 4:27:00

Yeah. All right, so um, I also wrote down here, um, I wrote one of the scenes that Ike's like, I don't really uh jive with that. The when Darcy gets caught kissing the intern, and it's the other way around that traditionally is holding him, she's holding him, and then she drops him, and it's still within that same scene. Jane says Darcy, and then they they're all saying their name, and then Mjornir flies by and she yells, Mjornir!

SPEAKER_03 4:27:27

Yeah, yeah. It's pretty funny.

SPEAKER_00 4:27:30

Darcy is hilarious, uh, anyways.

SPEAKER_02 4:27:32

Um some of the best hammer stuff in this, too. I like how the hammer's just confused. Like, what the hell?

SPEAKER_00 4:27:37

I wrote that down too, when Thor hangs up Mjornir in the apartment. Yeah, like this is this thing that you can't pick up, but he puts on the coat hanger, and that was improvised. They were just doing that.

SPEAKER_01 4:27:47

He just set it down. He just he just he hung it where you put your coat.

SPEAKER_02 4:27:50

And the best part is what he called a ripped the thing right off the wall.

SPEAKER_01 4:27:53

Like so good.

SPEAKER_02 4:27:55

But I do like how leaves Earth to go find him when he's through the realm, and then when he's back, it's like okay, it's coming. It's like it's it's all I I the attention to detail on the hammer stuff was really cool. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:28:09

I love the hammer stuff. It's so cool.

SPEAKER_02 4:28:12

We get the Ragnarok, we get hammer vision. Like, what? When the camera's on the hammer and it's flying around, wait till it's gone.

SPEAKER_00 4:28:20

Didn't think we ever needed that until we saw it. The only time I don't like the hammer stuff is when they're trying to make it too funny in Love and Thunder. When they're making it more like their own character, like, don't be mad. Uh the heat. Oh, see, I can't wait to get there because that's the least of the things that bother me in that movie. Oh, because I could see where that's the fans' gripes on the pushing the funny too much. I expected the guys, and you should have too, because you asked for it. But that's why for me I like the interesting one when we talk about it. It it is gonna be an interesting retrospective because I don't hate that movie at all.

SPEAKER_02 4:28:53

Right, yeah. But we're gonna have different views on what we didn't like about it and probably get to the same point again. We do that often. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:29:01

All right. So um, most emotional moment for you.

SPEAKER_02 4:29:04

Yeah, I already told you it's Loki's death.

SPEAKER_00 4:29:07

Yeah, you can do take it. Whatever. Most emotional moment for me was Thor and Loki talking on the ship while Jane is unconscious, where Thor says to him, I loved you like my brother. You were my brother, you are my brother. The the things like that. It just you can see like the tears welling up in his eyes to be like, We were something, and you broke it. That to me was really emotionally like a heartbeat right there. Be like, oh wow, that's like like Loki, really, you did something really bad. Like you broke a bond that you shouldn't have broken. That's why he told him later.

SPEAKER_02 4:29:40

I didn't do it for Odin, I did it for you. He's just playing.

SPEAKER_00 4:29:43

Anyway, yeah, yeah. Um let's see. Uh final scores. Alright, this is our multiverse meter, guys. Out of two, what would you give the story? Uh give the story uh one. Yep, I agree. There was only one thing on here during our our the midst of this uh live retrospective that we did that I made a little change, but that one. It's a definite one for me. Um characters for you.

SPEAKER_02 4:30:13

Uh characters, um I give it a uh also a one.

SPEAKER_00 4:30:18

Yep, same as me. Action and visuals.

SPEAKER_02 4:30:20

1.5.

SPEAKER_00 4:30:22

I go in two for that.

SPEAKER_02 4:30:24

Yeah. It's I give it a notch down a tad because of the confusion of the last act. I guess. It all looked good, but I just wish they had context and maybe like it more.

SPEAKER_00 4:30:33

That's the only defense I would give is that I I don't like what they did, but from a visual perspective, CGI spot, it did look good.

SPEAKER_02 4:30:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:30:42

Um, emotion and stakes.

SPEAKER_02 4:30:43

Yeah, maybe a 0.51, maybe. Yeah, 0.5, I'm gonna stick with because like I said, at some point it felt what is really at stake here because it doesn't quite understand the depth of what was happening because it just didn't really, it was very convoluted.

SPEAKER_00 4:30:58

Yeah. Uh I gave it a one uh for emotion and stakes. Rewatchability and MCU impact.

SPEAKER_02 4:31:05

Um, MCU impact, I gotta take into account I'm gonna give it a solid one. It's not very rewatchable though, unfortunately. It's it is I I did not hate watching this again. Um, I will watch it again someday, but it's definitely not a comfort uh go-to Marvel movie.

SPEAKER_00 4:31:23

You know, that's one thing I will say about that too, because I originally was gonna give this a two out of two, but yes, when the one of the things I love about us doing this retrospectives is we don't just watch this movie one time within the week of doing each episode. We watch it at least two, maybe three times, depending on how often we need to catch stuff or when we're in the midst of doing our busy day day stuff. This movie was great the first time around for me watching it. The second time I did enjoy it just trying to catch the little stuff, but there are certain scenes that I thought I don't need to revisit that. And by my third watch of this, I didn't want to see the third act at all. Just because I was like, I it wasn't that it was so anti-clacklectic for me, I felt like I'd have to force myself watching that part. And so that's where I like that we're doing our retrospectives because that's really the rewatchability factor of that stuff. Um, some of these movies that we've already done, like Avengers, I could re-watch over and over again, and I don't get bored of it or feel like I can't watch it again. Yeah, of course, everyone needs to take things in moderation and take a break, but for the purposes of our show, we do need to watch these like two or three times. And that's where that's why when we got to Incredible Hulk, I struggled so bad with the second watch. And that's what really helps me for this part of it. So I'm gonna say for this, for the rewatchability, it definitely is not non-existent for me to do that stuff. But the MCU Impact, you would not be able to get what you got in Endgame if you didn't do this movie. And I think that's one of the strong suits that Marvel has been able to have, is even the movies that are their, I won't say crappy, but they're weaker movies, weaker perceived by fans or weaker in storytelling and things like that. They are able to, in future films, reference back to it enough where you needed to have that in order to have the other. So that's why, as much as I don't like the Mandarin twist in Iron Man 3, they needed to have something that you could reference back at when you did do the Mandarin justice that made you feel better about it. And same thing with this movie here. For the fans that didn't like Thor of the Dark World, if you didn't have the events of how this transpired in here, you wouldn't have gotten some of the great Thor and Rocket scenes from Endgame of going back there and getting it and him seeing his mom again. That's a big deal.

SPEAKER_02 4:33:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:33:45

And getting Mjornir again.

SPEAKER_02 4:33:46

I do feel like they're too hard on this one.

SPEAKER_00 4:33:48

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:33:50

But this has been widely considered as one of the worst MCU movies. I think that's a far stretch.

SPEAKER_03 4:33:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:33:56

I'm not I'm not saying it's one of the best either, though, you know. Um, but it it's definitely not one of the worst. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:34:03

So all right, so I'm giving it a one out of two anyways. That long spiel. All right. My final score I'm gonna give this film is a seven out of ten. And that might be a little generous, but um the only two things that stuck out me that were the biggest two complaints I would give of the whole movie in general, is the weak villain part and the the end battle need to have been done differently.

SPEAKER_03 4:34:28

What's your I give it a 5.5. Oh Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:34:38

It just it's not as bad as people make the sound, but it uh it definitely didn't it didn't reach what I I honestly guys when I went to watch this, I was like, okay, I'm in I'm gonna watch this, I'm gonna be like, yes, this is why I love this movie. And it didn't happen. So I'm sorry. It's not that I don't love the movie. Like I said, guys, we're talking about the best of the stuff of superhero movies ever made. So like this, you know, none of these are bad movies yet. Yeah, we haven't hit a movie yet that's not worth watching.

SPEAKER_03 4:35:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:35:09

You know, we will at some point in time, but not yet. Um, these are all great, must see. If you love superhero movies, watch these movies. But this way, it just didn't blow my socks off, like like I was really hoping it would again, and it just didn't.

SPEAKER_00 4:35:22

So the official Goodell Multiverse score, then taking our two averages together, is a six out of ten for Thor the Dark World. Does that sound about appropriate?

SPEAKER_02 4:35:32

Yeah, it sounds pretty good. Especially if you think we are Captain America, the first Avenger was a seven out of ten. You know, so that actually I think that lines up, in my opinion. Because I'd say that's a better movie than this. Mm-hmm. Yep. Yeah, but but not by much, because it also falls apart a little bit. So yeah. Yeah, they're very similar movies, if you think about it. Yeah. In some ways, of just in like good beginnings to a weird end. Right. I think that's kind of how I feel about it.

SPEAKER_00 4:36:02

So all right. So now guys, we're getting to our final verdict, our closing of this retrospective. What is like your one sentence final review?

SPEAKER_02 4:36:12

Yeah. Um, way better than you thought it was, but still not as good as I want it to be. Must watch it though. Good Thor movie. I had to keep my stuff nice right to the point.

SPEAKER_03 4:36:26

Sammy can be the linguist over here.

SPEAKER_00 4:36:30

I'm having conflicting views of what I wrote down. Let me take a look before you say anything.

SPEAKER_01 4:36:39

I feel like I gave it too much praise.

SPEAKER_02 4:36:41

I mean, those are some that's a big word.

SPEAKER_01 4:36:43

That is a big word. Alright.

SPEAKER_03 4:36:46

Um I would just replace that word.

SPEAKER_02 4:36:52

I I wouldn't say that. But you know what? I don't know, Sam. If you feel that way about it, I think you should stick to what you got. If you if down in the just let your gut go with it, if you think it's worth claiming it, because once again, like we've we've made disclaimer 100%. These aren't bad movies. Like we're we're we are nitpicking good movies, right? Like with in the realm of superhero movies, we never got these kinds of movies. So if you want to give it its flowers that way, that's cool. Um, I just don't think it's that kind of good. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 4:37:27

This is this is what I'm gonna say. I'm just replacing one word on here. It's probably not the word you're thinking I'm replacing. Probably not. This is a misplaced master piece. Mmm. And the reason why I say it is it has the potential of being one of the best Thor films, but if it wasn't for the poor writing of the villain and for that end battle, it's misplaced.

SPEAKER_02 4:37:56

I g I can dig because if the villain was better, that battle would be better. Yes, because there'd be more stakes. Yes. And this movie would be a hell of a lot better.

SPEAKER_00 4:38:05

It would be at that point that masterpiece place. But yeah, so for I I had to keep I part of me had to keep the word masterpiece in my one my final review for it, just because there's so much negative hate towards this movie that I feel like is a little more uncalled for than it's supposed to be. But there are valid things in this movie that should make you say, wait a minute, this doesn't make sense. Or this this isn't strong enough to be worthy enough for that. So a misplaced masterpiece is what I'll say. I like it. Okay. Um pitch your version. What would you have done differently?

SPEAKER_02 4:38:49

Yeah, I think I would have not gone with the Dark Elves as a villain, truthfully. I'm not so sure what I would have done, to be honest with you, because I don't know all of Thor's repertoire. But why not use people from somewhere in the Nine Realms would be nice for one, and for two, I kind of wouldn't have minded if we went back to the Ice Giants, and it would have made my hot take make even more sense. It's the same as the first movie. But it's like it would have been okay though to kind of let them do something in retaliation of what happened then. I wouldn't mind that, to be honest with you. Um yeah, that I don't have much more than that because anything I could think of, I'd want to do with Thor is so big that it'd have to be later, you know. I would like to see a beta ray bill situation eventually, but I don't think it would have been appropriate for Thor to so Yeah. I I've I do want to see beta.

SPEAKER_00 4:39:47

I want to see the the um Oh, I'm gonna I'm gonna butcher his name. He's big in Norse mythology, but he's even really big in in the Marvel Comics version of Thor too. Um The Serpent. I forgot his name. Something with a J.

SPEAKER_03 4:40:03

It's something I'm What is the serpent?

SPEAKER_02 4:40:08

Yeah, I can't think of the name of it either. I think I know what you're talking about, though. Yeah. That'd have been kind of cool. Yeah, something along those lines, maybe. I would have never guessed the name of that.

SPEAKER_00 4:40:26

The thing I'll uh So let me get to what my I'll pitch my version um for you. That I or the thing I would have done differently, I should say. Um, and then I'll tell you about this Midgar Serpent thing that I had an idea for. And that's part of my mirror dimension, guys. So um I would have kept the dark elves personally. I just would have written them better. Yeah, I would have written them more darker, honestly. The dark elves. I would have had the magic part of that in there. I would have made that that's one of my problems with Malakeith is that there are times where he's supposed to be really, really bad, but then that doesn't show it. And then there are times it's it's wonky. It's like you're supposed to take him as a serious threat, and then you're you easily can see you you don't need to take him as a serious threat. I would have made him be more consistently written throughout the whole thing. Where if he starts off as this bad dude, that it just so happens they were able, I would have done it something where when Odin retells a story, is that his grandfather didn't just win a battle, he survived the battle of Malake. And it just so happens to have taken whatever they did back then, kind of imprisoned or comatosed or put put the dark elves to rest type thing. Maybe even something as that that's one of the nine realms that is a do not enter realm type thing. And then Malakef and the the dark elves break free from that to find the ether. Something along those lines. I would have done something a little bit different to make the stakes higher and make the threat feel more real. Because the thing about this movie is that the whole the whole point of Malake getting the ether is to put all the nine realms in eternal darkness. Wouldn't you think that all the nine realms then are gonna go against and fight him too? That's another aspect of this movie we didn't talk about. In the beginning of the movie, when you see Thor, he's in one of the other realms fighting off some of the upheaval that they're having. But these other realms still exist with their own people and their own um uh armies and things like that, and they never get brought up or mentioned in this whole thing of I would have done something where each realm had someone that like a council around Odin saying, This guy is here and he wants to put us all in darkness. What are you gonna do about it, all father? And he'd be like, still the arrogant guy he was, be like, I'll handle it to the last blood or whatever. No, yeah, you know, I will have done something where it up the stakes a little more, where it felt like, okay, this need this guy needs to be stopped. Yeah. Because you have the pieces there to do it, but the story's not constructed well enough to make you feel that way.

SPEAKER_02 4:43:16

Yeah, I'm with you.

SPEAKER_00 4:43:17

Yeah. So I would have done I would have kept the Dark Elves, even kept the The Dark World as a title. I just would have made the stakes a little bit more, make them a little more menacing.

SPEAKER_02 4:43:27

Would have made a better movie, that's for sure.

SPEAKER_00 4:43:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:43:29

Yeah, because it that's that's their biggest lacking problem is this, is this is this villain thing. And that at least would have given some do something. You know, it's like, but yeah, I like that. I I would have liked that. Yeah, it's good.

SPEAKER_00 4:43:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:43:41

It's for good.

SPEAKER_00 4:43:42

And what I was gonna say about the Midgar Serpent guy's kind of hanging about that. The Midgar Serpent, if you look, if you look him up, he it's it's predicted once Ragnarok happens that the Midgar Serpent destroys the realms. So as much as well, we're gonna get to a retrospective of Love and Thunder, of course, and as much as I do like what happened in Love and Thunder, I feel like the proper sequel to a Love and Thunder would have been you the the whole thing of of Ragnarok actually was to start Ragnarok. That's what we find out in the movie. Yeah, is not to prevent it, it's for us to start it. And they did it. I would have liked to see the repercussions of doing that. Yeah. With Thor now fighting the Midgar serpent that's devouring the nine realms.

SPEAKER_03 4:44:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:44:33

That would have been a little more of an epic serious. Oh, that'd be cool.

SPEAKER_03 4:44:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:44:36

Yeah. This picture, this big snake serpent thing that you easily could have done, and maybe it could telepathically talk to you type thing and be like, oh, and Thor has to fight it and all that stuff. And in the midst of doing that, this is where it comes to some of my um things I talked about earlier, guys. You find out there's a tenth realm. Oh my! Thor has another sister. Oh my, that's Oldin's illegitimate daughter. Oh my. Yeah. Another one. Yeah. Another one because that's what he does.

SPEAKER_02 4:45:04

Yeah, he's a because he's a he needs a punch the face. Yeah, I mean, that would look great in that video game, too. That would. Of Thor. Open world. Come on, guys, get on that. Yeah. Whoever's sleeping on that needs to get what? An open game of that would be so awesome. Oh my god, I'm so in for that.

SPEAKER_00 4:45:23

All right. Well, thank you guys for tuning into this episode of the Goodell Multiverse. Ike, why don't you close us out? What's going to be happening next? Alright, guys.

SPEAKER_02 4:45:31

So next week, believe it or not, we're actually going to be doing our branch point breakdown, it's going to be of Punisher One Last Kill review. So I'm excited for that because I honestly forgot all about that. I didn't forget that that was coming. I forgot it was that soon. I thought we had a week in between, but that's not till after this. So I'm excited for that, to be honest with you. Then after that, we our main event next week is going to be our retrospective of Captain America Winter Soldier. Arguably, to some one of the Best Marvel movies or superhero movies ever made. Oh, I've heard lots of people online say it's the best one ever made. I don't know if I agree with that, but I would definitely say it's good.

SPEAKER_00 4:46:09

So I will tell you one thing about that and to give a little preview of what you're gonna see of me in the next episode. This uh Captain America The Winter Soldier, I saw seven times in the theaters. Oh boy. I counted every one of them. Seven times I saw this movie. I did not get bored. So I promise you folks, I will bring the fight to bring it.

SPEAKER_02 4:46:31

I'll find I'll look for the stuff that's wrong. I'll find what's wrong. We'll have a good time. Oh, I already know one thing that's wrong about the movie, too. But I still love it. Oh, yeah. I'll pick it apart, though. I'll I'll nitpick the crap out of it just so you can watch him get revved up. But yeah, no, it's yeah, I it's gonna be a tough one to pick apart, though, because I've I've always had fond memories of it too. So yeah, you know, it's but I do have bigger issues with it. So I think we'll have a good time figuring that out and see where that goes.

SPEAKER_00 4:46:58

This is gonna be fun. I I'm gonna be looking forward. As I'm gonna be editing this episode, I'm already gonna be watching it. It's gonna be so good. All right. Thanks guys for tuning into this episode. If you're just watching this as a segment on YouTube, we have a full audio podcast and also a full video podcast coming to you soon. Um, please like and subscribe to our social media and uh share with a friend, share with an enemy. We we want to be shared all over the place. Uh, thank you so much for tuning into this. I hope you like our retrospectives, and we can't wait to see you at the movies.