Ep10 - Captain America: Winter Soldier Retrospective with Punisher OLK Review

The Goodell Bros made it to Episode 10! They discuss the news of the week - including VisionQuest, Spider-Man Brand New Day script and poster, and the cast of The Batman 2 - then they discuss the latest rumors - including She-Hulk Showrunner Importance, Spider-Man's Uncle Ben, and a "Secret Avenger" in Doomsday - then they breakdown the Marvel Disney + Special "Punisher: One Last Kill". Finally, the Goodell Bros go deep into conspiracy territory with their review of Captain America: The Winter Soldier on their March to Doomsday!

Transcript

SPEAKER_04 0:00

On every timeline in every universe, there's one thing that we always talk about. Marvel. Welcome to the Goodell Multiverse Podcast. I am one of your hosts, Sam Goodell. I'm Isaiah Goodell. And this time, guys, we are talking about Captain America the Winter Soldier. Oh my gosh. What episode is this now? Episode 10. Episode 10. Believe it. Goodness, 10 episodes.

SPEAKER_00 0:27

10 episodes, yeah. Yeah, I'll be hey. I'll be doing a creature feature here. I have to redo mine, guys. It messed up the other night, but it's that's gonna be the fourth episode of that too. On top of that, that's true.

SPEAKER_04 0:38

Holy smokes. Oh, I know. Um, we're just we're just rolling here and we're just having fun. This is this is really cool. It's been a blast, yeah. Yeah, so this is thank you guys for tuning in with us. Um, if you are listening to us on the audio version of the podcast, we do have a video version on our YouTube page. Go check us out. If you are watching us as a clip on YouTube, we do have an audio version wherever you stream, from like iHeart to Amazon to iTunes, everywhere we are. So, all right, um, I'm just gonna run through the agenda real quick and then I'm gonna pass things along to my brother for a special announcement, guys. So, uh our agenda for today, we're gonna do our multiverse minute, which is the news of the week. Talk about some exciting things that came out, and so much came out, guys, that we might not be able to cover it all in this episode, but we are definitely gonna roll it into our next episode. Um, and then we'll move on from there to our rumor mill rundown where we talk about some of the latest juicy gossip that's out there on the internet. And then we get to our branch point breakdown. And this time we're not reviewing really a TV episode show, I should say, but it is a TV show. It's an episode.

SPEAKER_00 1:47

It's a special.

SPEAKER_04 1:48

It's a special. So we're gonna be reviewing Punisher One Last Kill. You're gonna get our two cents on it, and we definitely have some two cents to show you. Yeah, that's for sure. All right, and then on to our main agenda. We're or not main agenda, our main event of our agenda, which is Captain America, the Winter Soldier. Oh, yeah. All right, so Ike, why don't you give us the special announcement?

SPEAKER_00 2:11

All right, guys. So Sam and I were talking the other day, and we realized in Doomsday and probably Secret Wars, we got a lot of X-Men coming up, especially X-Men from like the old Brian Singer days, the Fox days. So we were discussing, because when we get to the end of this March to Doomsday, and we get to Doomsday and we get to do our Doomsday special with you guys, um, uh we we were gonna start going outside of the MCU into other all the other Marvel projects, which includes the X-Men from back in the day. But we realized, you know, maybe we need to know more about the X-Men before we go into Doomsday, or at least revisit that stuff because there might be some real big things that happen that we'll discuss. And instead of taking the time to explain it at the time, we've we could do it in our our retrospective form like we've been doing now. So we decided that starting in June, we're up until November, we are gonna do a special episode of a retrospective special, and it's gonna be purely for X-Men. And we're gonna do the the six main X-Men movies. That's gonna be X-Men, X2, X-Men United, X-Men The Last Stand, X-Men First Class, X-Men Days of Future Past, and X-Men Apocalypse. Now, if we get daring and we want, maybe we'll fit in a second one towards the end and do uh X-Men the Dark Phoenix. We feel that it's such a bad movie. It's very unnecessary to do. I mean, I know that's awful to say, but we do feel we do disclude it because we we do feel like we can go into anything else past X-Men Apocalypse and not have to see X-Men Dark Phoenix, to be honest. And and a lot of it is due to because our personal feelings of how how bad it was received and how bad we received it. But we might, when we get closer, we might say, hey, you know what? Let's just knock it out and have so maybe in November you get two of them, and that's gonna be the last one. Um, but we'll let you know when we get closer. But look for that, guys, coming out um starting once a month, we're gonna do one. So we're doing our normal retrospective with each Marvel project going moving up to Doomsday. But there's gonna be a special retrospective that's also gonna land, which is gonna be at X-Men. And we're gonna do it as a special because, guys, frankly, some of our retrospectives on the X-Men are gonna be longer than the movies. Like maybe, maybe not. You know, I mean they might be about the same. All I know is that we could talk certain ones we can talk days on, and and that is that's our first love when it comes to Marvel guys, is the X-Men. So we are gonna treat them you know very graciously and have a good time, which is why we actually decided to only do one a month instead of like every week and just bang them out real quick. It it's just a lot of work and it'd be a lot of editing and it'd be a lot of time. Um, because if we do it once a month, it gives us a good two weeks in the beginning of the month to watch the movie a couple times and really hash out what we want to talk about. And when we do those specials, guys, we won't be doing a rumor mill rundown or a multiverse minute. It's gonna be just for that retrospective special for that reason, because it could be a longer video. So be prepared, they're gonna be long, they're gonna be good. It's one of our main events that we're excited to do. But we really thought, man, we we better do this before doomsday because we just don't know what's gonna happen, you know. And they're gonna be in it. I think they're all gonna be in it eventually. And if that's the case, I want us to all be in the same page of hey, what are the little things that they could pull out? Because you guys gotta remember, Kevin Fige was there from X1 from back in the day. So he could pull any kind of little Easter egg or nugget out to really flesh out these characters in a two-minute scene in Doomsday that we could be. Oh my god, I remember X2 when they referenced that. And if we didn't talk about it, we'd all be kind of you know just throwing it in the air. So that's uh that's that's what we're gonna be doing, guys.

SPEAKER_04 5:50

So look forward to that, all right? Yeah, yeah. Well, I'm I'm really excited, and I want to make just one quick clarity for me. So when it came to Marvel and my love for Marvel and how it started, uh my dad, our dad got me introduced to Marvel, and he has some of the old comic books and all that stuff, and that's how that's how we got into it. And thankfully, with the visual medium that we have nowadays of the MCU and even the like these X-Men films, they're not MCU, but they're MCU adjacents, you know, that they they took on these properties and they they made them blockbusters, you know. Um, it helped us maintain our fandom and stoke our fandom and things like that. Fantastic Four was the first comic book that I personally had read into, and I fell in that. So, I mean, no offense to X-Men. I love X-Men as my brother knows how much I love X-Men. But when if I have to give myself like or give my um my flowers to a specific thing that got me into Marvel, would be a Fantastic Four. So I'll be a little extra critical on that when we get to that retrospective on the adjacent MCU Fantastic Fours and the one they actually did in the MCU. But X-Men is what kept me going, and X-Men is definitely, I would say, compared to Fantastic Four, more personal for me because of how they've written the characters, so they are more mass appealing than the Fantastic Four. So um, I love the core elements of the Fantastic Four, the family first and everything, but at the same time, X-Men, that that has a special place in my heart. Oh, yeah. Yeah, so I'm excited for these things.

SPEAKER_00 7:25

We get emotional when we hear the music.

SPEAKER_04 7:27

So oh, that music. And we're not talking about the we're which is good. We we're talking about the um do do that. Yeah, oh it's so good. So good. Anyways, guys, so thank you for tuning in to the Godell Multiverse podcast, and now let's get right on rolling here with our multiverse minute.

SPEAKER_00 7:56

Hey guys, welcome to the multiverse minute here on the Godell Multiverse Podcast. We're gonna go through and talk about some three pretty good stories, I think, this week, to be honest with you. I'm gonna start us off with the first one, though. All right. First one is uh Vision Quest news. So Disney up front has a special Marvel presentation inviting Paul Bentley on stage to present Vision Quest and announce a premiere date of October 14th with eight episodes. The show will conclude the WandaVision trilogy. So, yeah, what do you think of this, Sam? Are you excited for this? Or how do you feel about eight episodes? It sounds about right.

SPEAKER_04 8:38

Yeah, yeah. I believe if I remember right, I think WandaVision was eight episodes, and Agatha all along the sequel to it, was about eight episodes. I am kind of excited for this. I would say that of all of the Disney Plus shows that Marvel has done, WandaVision is probably might be a personal thing for me, but I think it's my favorite of the Disney Plus shows of all of them. I think it's probably the best one. Yep. I I think objectively it I agree. I think objectively it definitely is. And I also think that that was the best show to open the Disney Plus shows with when they released it. It was the first Disney Plus show officially released. Right. And the the episodes were they were really good. I can't wait till we get to our retrospective on WandaVision itself, because I have so many fond memories of that and everything about it. Um, and like I said, I think this is the best show that they could have started this uh Disney Plus experiment at that time with for Marvel. Um, because had they start with any of the other shows, it probably wouldn't have gone as good of a reception overall. You know, just like how we talk about for TV shows themselves, you want your first episode to be one good gut punch that's gonna keep you going, you know, one thing something that's gonna hook you right there, and then you can say, I can last for more seasons, more episodes, more different stuff. And WandaVision for me was that for Disney Plus. Um, thankfully they didn't start with Secret Invasion because it would have been a little bad. Anyways, so I am excited for this. I liked what happened in WandaVision. I liked what happened to Agatha all along. I actually think that even though Agatha isn't on par with Wandavision for me, it definitely was a good continuation. And they they took the best parts of Agatha's character and some of the story um lines from Wandavision and kept it going, and that was good for it. And I believe it's the same creative people that did that did those two shows are doing Vision Quest, from my understanding. So I'm excited for it. I'm excited to see Vision again. Um this this, from my understanding, also is the last one of the Disney Plus shows you have to know in order to know what's going on in the MCU. And we've talked about that before. I think the main reason for that is we need to bring Vision back into the main MCU continuity, so we're gonna give him his own show. Okay, cool. Hopefully it's successful. You know. Um I was taking a quick peek to see what we know of it so far. Ultron is back officially in this show. I did like Ultron as a villain. I know that it's a it's kinda he's one of those characters that I'm like, you can't really kill him, so I was expecting him to come back. I just didn't know how they were gonna do it, and now we're gonna see how they're gonna do it to a degree in the show. Maybe he's really back, back, maybe he's not. I have no idea. I have some fan theories on that, but overall, um it is interesting what they've released so far at this Disney upfront. Um, they had Robert Downey Jr. and Tom Hiddleston come on stage with Paul Bentney, which is really cool and interesting because I know Robert Downey Jr., he's he's Dr. Doom, he is gonna be at all these Marvel things, but with Tom Hiddleston too, it makes me have a big question mark of is Vision in Doomsday? Is he? Is he not? Why like I expected Robert Downey Jr. I didn't I didn't actually think he would go and do it, but you know, who is the face of Marvel? It's kind of Robert Downey Jr. That's what they made him, the star child of it, and he's back, and they're gonna soak up every last penny that they're gonna give him and doing all this doomsday promotion. So they better he's not cheap. He's not cheap, so use him. Come on out here, bro. We paid you. Exactly. You're gonna be at everything. So uh I expected that, but Tom Hiddleson, I did not expect. So I don't know why he was there personally. Maybe there is a another meaning to it, but I think he was just there just to help present this, which begs the question what's gonna happen in Doomsday? So before I get on to a little more specifics on this, although I guess there's only one other thing that we do know of this um show is that they are bringing to life, quote unquote, all of the AI voices that we've heard in the MCU thus far. Uh Jarvis Friday and stuff. Yep, yep. Friday. I mean, Jarvis is Vision and that and Paul Bentley is the voice of Jarvis, but also Jarvis, the AI was based on a real character that was Howard Stark's butler. So that's how it kind of, you know, that so apparently that same actor is coming back to play the visual representation of the AI Jarvis, which is interesting. Um Friday Edith from Far From Home, um, Dummy, which is Iron Man's robot thing that he calls dummy. I thought that's an interesting little like nugget. Like, oh, we're gonna see what he looks like. It's a person type thing. So that's what and apparently they're gonna introduce um I don't think it's confirmed, but it's heavily rumored that Joe Costa is gonna be introduced to introduced introduced introduced Joe Costa for people who aren't familiar with it in the comics, Ultron got lonely as a robot, and so he decided to make himself a wife and kidnap the wasp and put her brain waves into a female Ultron body, and that was Jocasta. So uh apparently she is rumored to be introduced. I did like that storyline by the way in the comics. I thought it was real cool. It did fail, then it didn't really fail. And then there's another version of a female Ultron that's out there, and I it eludes me in the top of my brain that I actually like more than Jocasta, but I can see them merging both of them together because you know the social, uh the um not social, I'm sorry, the soap opera part of of comics, they just merge them together. But, anyways, um that's my two cents on it so far. I'm anticipating it. So what are your thoughts?

SPEAKER_00 14:57

I don't have the same excitement as Sammy does. I I get it. I'm I'm more interested in see where vision fits in, all this stuff, all these new characters and all like what they're the visual representations of what they're gonna be. I I just don't know what this means, you know, and I'm I can't get excited for this yet because I have ris reservations. To me, continuity-wise, you can't bring back Ultron in a physical form without him trying to finish what he started because he was just so on the nose of I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna you know fix the world, this is how I'm gonna do it. I just don't see a good version of Ultron. And I'm not saying that's what they would do, but I can't see a version of Ultron that comebacks physically that doesn't try to continue what he started in age of Ultron. And frankly, we don't have room for that kind of problem with the MCU right now, with these characters going forward. I'm just I don't know what that means, you know. When they say the physical versions of these characters of these things, is it in a computer form or are they all going to be like a vision like version where they create an actual body? You know, I don't know. So that's where I'm I'm not sure. I don't have the knowledge of these characters outside of what we've seen in the movies and stuff, as well. So a lot of what you just told me is brand new information to me. So, and and to be honest with you, it all sounds like a lot. And I'm not saying it's bad. I'm not saying it could be bad, it could be a great show, you know. But I don't like the fact that we have to see it because unless Vision's in Doomsday or in uh Secret Wars, which is possible, I think everybody's gonna be in these two movies coming up, which one there are both. Some are gonna be in both, some are only gonna be in one, you know. I think everyone's gonna be in the second. I think everyone's gonna be in Secret Wars, no doubt. So if Vision's anywhere, it's probably gonna be there. It's just you don't put a body to Ultron without Ultron trying to do what he did in the first, you know, uh Age of Ultron movie, in my opinion. Not without really convincing me that there's a reason you don't make him do it, right? Because they they kind of did that with the Abomination in She-Hulk, where you know, was he good? I don't know. See, that's a whole different conversation. But like that's what I mean. I'm not very excited about these TV shows, guys, to be honest with you. So I'll wait and hear till I hear more before I give you my really true honest opinion. Because right now, until I start seeing a clip or get more of a synops of what this is gonna be about and what kind of an idea of what this is gonna be about, then I I really I'm really not looking forward to it, to be honest. So fortunately, guys, that's my that's my two cents on that one.

SPEAKER_04 17:41

So yeah, I mean, I uh I guess the only thing I could I could say is that Ultron is very complex of a character. He's one of those recurring villains for the Avengers where he he all almost always fails and he figures out a way because he's he's AI. He is it's funny that we live in the day and age right now where AI is everything. Heck, it helps us, helps me editing this podcast. It helps everybody go through their life now and doing you know, I remember when I was growing up and the first AI was autocorrect on your phone and your computer. Be like, oh, that's cool. Now it's like everything. And so in a thought process of that, Age of Ultron, the movie and Ultron himself is kind of ahead of his time in real life type thing. Thank God we don't have a real life Ultron, but you know what I mean is that the AI was a brand new concept that Tony Stark and Bruce Banner created and all that stuff using all this different thing. And we'll we're gonna get to that episode very soon for Age of Ultron guys. But um he always is figuring out a way, at least in the comics, of reinventing himself to still accomplish the main mission and that he was programmed to do. He was programmed just like he was in the the MCU, it was the same thing he was programmed in the comics to um world peace, basically. He just feels that the Avengers are the reason why there are problems in the world. Like, not the he doesn't think it's funny. Ultron, he's one of those characters, he doesn't think the Avengers are the only problem, but he thinks they're the biggest obstacle to overcome all the other problems. He's the type of villain that easily can wipe out another villain that's an actual MCU villain, but he chooses to go after the Avengers first because you break down the strongest among you first, and then you go down the ladder. And so his primary focus has always been the Avengers in the comics. And I think that that's the same and all the heroes actually. There's many crossover events where Ultron has taken over and done stuff. Heck, there's a comic line that came out the same time as Age of Ultron, the movie, called Age of Ultron. I actually really like that comic. It kind of was like a Days of Future Pass meets Avengers and Ultron, where they sent Invisible Woman and Wolverine back in time to kill Hank Pym, the original creator of Ultron, because Ultron took over the world. It's crazy, guys. You gotta go read it. It's really cool. It's only like five or six issues. It's not not super big, but it's an epic story. And that's is the same time, same title as when this movie was coming out. So I thought, is that what they're doing? But no, it they did a totally original thing for the movie. Anyways, just a coincidence. So um, I can see in this show, and this is all speculation, that Ultron's motivation maybe isn't to bring down the Avengers, but it's to do the second thing he was doing in the movie, which was leveling up his body and take becoming vision, basically. That was that's the original name for vision was Ultron's Vision, is Vision. It just so happens in that movie they they stop the process and then they put Jarvis in instead. So he's got a little bit of both in him. Um in the comics, that didn't happen. In the comics, it was um vision is his own entity separate from Jarvis. Right. And he was actually created to be like a henchman for Ultron, not an ultimate body for him, but a henchman, basically, and all that stuff. And then he decided to have a conscience in the comics. Then he fell in love with voodoo witch lady, and there you go. They made little vision babies somehow. However, that works. Yeah, we'll get to that too, because the MCU they touch upon it. Literally. Anyways, um, so I can see in this show, Altron is gonna do his leveling up, maybe, maybe that secondary thing he was trying to do in his own movie, and there's a new white vision out there who is confused at this moment because that's how we left them in WandaVision, where the um the hex vision, the Wanda crew. Created that actually is mimicking the actual vision, gives all those memories, like floods his brain with those those memories of the Avengers and everything that happened and everything. And he has no idea how to compute with that. And I think that's what we're going to see in this show is an eight-episode arc of him going through an evolution of be going down the road to become the vision that we knew of when he died in Infinity War.

SPEAKER_00 22:24

Yeah, so my question is though, like, is does this sound necessary moving into Doomsday though? Like I I agree. I don't it's a good thing. It just seems like you're doing yeah, because it I think it feels like it's it's not you're being very uh it's not very classy on what you're doing to the vision character or to the Ultron character then. Because then you're ultimately taking a villain that's in an Avengers movie, like one of the Avengers highlight movies, and kind of like just dumbing it down to we're just gonna see him, you know, make his plans, you know? And it's a what's it gonna amount to then if like we already got so much we gotta be doing in Doomsday, anyways. You know what I'm saying? Like is it gonna is it gonna be Altron and Doom sitting on a throne next to each other? You know, I don't I just don't see I s I see where you're getting at.

SPEAKER_04 23:12

You see what I'm coming from? I I totally understand. I feel like this this show This is how do I say this properly and in the best way possible? Bear with me, guys. This show is the last of the planned Disney Plus shows that they already said we need to conclude this for two reasons. One, we already starred the roll the ball rolling on this WandaVision trilogy announcing everything, so we need to finish it. And two, we need to find a way to get Vision back into the MCU and anything related in Vision's whole um comic book um arcs and whatever. He did have his own comic line at one point, and I'm sure they're gonna touch upon that here um in the show. I think they're trying to do a mix mash of what they originally intended for the show because he is a secondary character, so we're gonna give him his own show. But the problem is they want him back in the MCU. So you kind of have to balance this coin a little bit to be like, let's give him his own show as a secondary character, but also we need to make it where you need to know it for future MCU properties. And we're gonna say this is the last time we're doing that, which this is from my understanding, uh except for you know the planned Wonder Man season two, which just happened, and things like that. They didn't have any other shows planned. There's I don't think, from my understanding, and please correct me if I'm wrong, internet, at this time, May 15th, 2026, they do not have any new Disney Plus shows for Marvel planned besides the second or third season of what's already out there. Yeah. I think they're trying to figure out a way of how do we do this again.

SPEAKER_00 24:55

Just just I don't know why they're why they are though. Why for why they want to do that? No one's holding a gun to their head. You're right. You know what they got him back though. They did it in the end of one division. It's all you need. He's there. He's a white vision out there somewhere. Just have him show up. I mean, we would there's if he if we start in Doomsday and we get part way to doomsday and all of a sudden he shows up during a fight sequence or something, there's no part of me that's gonna go, where the hell did he come from? We don't need this another eight episodes of more confusing things of bringing back other characters and making new characters that eventually aren't gonna mean anything then because you don't bring back Ultron without that being a real problem later. And what's that mean for mean is he gonna be a part of or is or is Vision gonna defeat Ultron in this, I guess, again? You know, honestly, I don't know. That's what I mean. Like, I need to know more before I get excited because right now I feel like why they could announce tomorrow, you know what? We're not we uh other than the fact that they filmed the thing already. If they hadn't filmed it yet, they could announce tomorrow that they just canceled it. And I'd be like, yeah, duh.

SPEAKER_02 26:02

Duh. We don't need this.

SPEAKER_00 26:06

I don't think any no one is saying, Well, wait a minute, you promised a vision quest, and we aren't and we're not gonna understand why vision's back if you don't do it. Nobody's saying that. Nobody. They're doing this to themselves. Because they already put the money into it, they already filmed stuff, so now they have to do something with it. And they've spinning the bag, I believe, for the past two years they've been doing it. Yeah, which is which is to me, this is despicable in my opinion. Yeah. Look, it might be great, it might be awesome, and I'll eat my words. And you know what? I hope I do, because I don't want them to fail. I want every project they do to be good. I just don't see this being necessary. I feel like there's a lot coming on, there's a lot happening here. Just have Frizzard freaking show up. We don't, it doesn't matter, we get it. Anyone that's seen WandaVision understands it already. We don't need Ultron back unless you I'm not saying we shouldn't have Ultron back, but for why? We want Doomsday, guys. Don't and and if you bring Ultron back and he turns out just be, well, you know, I tried and I guess we're gonna be pals, but you really can't trust me. Sorry, you didn't build Ultron up to be like Loki. Better not start now.

SPEAKER_04 27:15

This is the only way it will ever make sense. The only the only way it makes sense for me to do the character justice is yeah, vision Ultron comes back to try to claim the body, and then vision and all these other AI things defeat him or you know contain him because that's one of my problems I have with Age of Ultron, and we're gonna get there when we get there, guys. Is that if this guy really is on the internet and out there, there's no way he was dead. So this is just a way of manifesting himself.

SPEAKER_00 27:44

I've always liked the idea that Ultron could come back. I just think he should come back to fight the young Avengers. I think that should be them dealing with what the old guys did in the past and cleaning up their mess again because he's still around. Yeah, they did that in the anime. In my opinion, that's where Ultron comes back, not in this TV show. But that's just me.

SPEAKER_04 28:05

Yeah. They did that. There's an actual, I have it on DVD and a DVD called Young Avengers, so they did a long time ago. That's about them picking up the mantles of their parents. And it's the parents versus it's the kid version of all the the Avengers, and it's fighting Ultron.

SPEAKER_00 28:20

And you could do a very similar thing in this. The first Young Avengers, Avengers team up movie could be them fighting Ultron again. Why not? That would be interesting. That would be. Oh, cool, there's a lot of crap going on. I'm gonna I'm that's how I'm gonna feel. I predict this is another secret wars mess, and it's gonna be all for nothing. And all they needed to do was just have White Vision show up because I'm on board with that. That's all you gotta do. He could be sitting there eating cough, eating tea, eating tea, drinking tea. I don't care. He could be sitting there fishing. So, oh yeah, there he is. Oh, yeah, that's right. Because we all know he's here. We don't need this show, we just don't need it.

SPEAKER_04 29:19

I kind of like the and it's either official or unofficial, but it was leaked out concept art of Peter Quill and White Vision chilling on the couch watching TV. Yeah, that's all you need. That looked, I don't I don't know if you guys have seen it online. I literally can't put it up on our video because Marvel has struck it down for some reason, and it either says they're doing something with it or it just was not supposed to be released anyways, type thing. Um, but if you have seen it online, it is a pretty cool looking picture. And that's immediately why I thought it's oh, that's how we're gonna get vision back. But now we're gonna get them back in vision quests. And listen, guys, I'm gonna be of the two of us the more optimistic one of this. Obviously, it's okay. We should have this because I'm sure you watching have your own opinions on this. Please share them in the comments down below. Let us know your thoughts. What do you think? Does Vision Quest needed? Is it not needed? Are you excited for it now that they are doing it? Or are you kind of like, oh, we gotta get through this? Like, let us know, guys, because uh I am excited for it. But I also know part of me is also excited for this that it's a closing of a door of what they've done with Disney Plus, and hopefully they do it in a good bang. And now we're gonna see what they're planning on doing for the future because they're not done with Disney Plus guys, but how are they gonna fix what they've done with Disney Plus moves?

SPEAKER_00 30:39

Or we gotta sit through one more She-Hulk until we get to stuff that makes sense, right?

SPEAKER_04 30:45

All right, share your thoughts down in the comments below, guys, and I'm gonna start us off with the next topic here. All right. It's been a hot minute since we talked about Spider-Man brand new day, and so we need to give you guys a little bit of an update. And I'm gonna be first to tell you that one of the things we're gonna talk about is the first three pages, I believe, two to three pages of the script being released. Now, I uh we could have touched upon this on our last episode, guys, but I was under the impression it was a leak. And for something like that, I don't put it as part of the news because I didn't think it was an official release, and we didn't even know if it was real or not. That was my opinion at the time. I have since learned, no, this is an official this is a marketing ploy official release from Marvel to Entertainment Weekly on the first two to three pages of the script. And anyone who says that some of this is real, I I did take a look at these pictures and take a look at all you you see the little notes, the cliff notes are putting on the sides of this script. There's no way this is not a marketing ploy. They said that they gave it to Entertainment Weekly, who then published it. Whether or now it's supposed to be published is up for debate, but it's Entertainment Weekly, so it's officially news, guys. And it also coincides with something new that Marvel just released on Brand New Day. So a new poster, a new video, and a sneak peek script reveal of Spider-Man Brand New Day is now up online for everyone to see. It gives us a little bit of an idea of what the film is gonna be about to a degree, well not not officially be about, but the tone that they're setting for the film, at least the one you start off with. Um, and the the little video that they release is an idea of the practical effects that they were trying to put into this movie and really honing in Spider-Man's up-to-date um skills and the all the new stuff Tom Holland had to do for it. And the new poster looks pretty cool. Yeah, I agree. The only thing I will say that's a down bad thing I would say about the poster, it looks like there's a touch of AI in it, personally. Now, it could be just the way that they did it and make this artsy version of it. But when I first saw this poster, I thought, ooh, they used AI. But that's just me.

SPEAKER_00 33:03

I see what you're talking about. I don't know. I s I've seen some posters in the past that look this, they're like, oh, it looks a little too perfect. You know what I mean? And that's a little too glossy, yeah. Yeah, I think that's the scary part about AI right now, is we're not sure, right? Because it could not be. But it very well could be. So, yeah, that's tough.

SPEAKER_04 33:23

I don't like this age of AI we're in. I mean, either way, it's a new poster. It doesn't really give us too much new. No, it's nothing phenomenal. It's just a poster. Yeah. And it definitely is in the same vein as the ninja poster that we got before. So they're keeping with the same style. But did you watch the video that they released? I did watch the video. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:43

What did you think of that? It's cool. It's it's neat seeing Tom interacting with the fans, you know, and and just cool to see everyone come out for him and doing that. It's I'm glad there's a lot of practical stuff going on. I mean, obviously these are CGI packed too. But I'm someone I like the practical things. And you can get him flying in the air with the wires and stuff. That's that's that's a lot of fun. Now, I did not take a look at the script though myself. So have you, or are we pulling it up right now?

SPEAKER_04 34:07

I I'm gonna pull up some of it so we can have at least the main points of the script fresh in our brain. Um but the I because I wasn't too interested in the beginning thinking it was a leak, I didn't at the time, and I know I've had like now nine to ten days since I could have looked it up. Uh so I did start within the past two days to do a little um digging into it, looking up some of my favorite YouTubers, uh, Screen Crush. I'm gonna give you guys a shout out because you do a heck of a video, hour long, talking about the different parts of the script. And so thank you. It really helped me a lot. And so you should know. Yeah, you should know that your your content is valued heavily. So, um Spider-Man brand new day.

SPEAKER_00 34:54

I can't think of a time they've done this before where they've released the actual part of the script of a not like this.

SPEAKER_04 35:01

Yeah, not like this, right? Yeah, no, I I remember when X-Men Apocalypse was being made and Brian Singer took like a side view of the title X-Men Apocalypse, and you could read like the first sentence that says it starts off in ancient Egypt, and that was enough for me to be like, oh my gosh. But anyways, that was just like one line you barely can read. These are actual pages that they've released. That's wild.

unknown 35:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:24

I wonder why they felt this necessary.

SPEAKER_00 35:26

Everyone's gonna go watch this movie. You know, sometimes I wonder um if you can over uh sell something, but I guess you can't. The more you talk about it, the more people get interested, and the more little things get you going. But uh for me, this is almost like, man, we're kind of just show me the damn thing by now. But yeah.

SPEAKER_04 35:44

All right, so here's a little brief breakdown of what's in the th first three pages that was released. Marvel released the official first three pages of the script Spider-Man Brand New Day, which provide a detailed look at the opening scene of the movie. Uh, the opening sequence, the film opens nine months after the events of No Way Home. So now we have an official timeline. Um, it starts with a modified Marvel Studios logo showcasing the memories of Peter that no longer shares MJ and Ned. So you know how their little montage who in the beginning, sorry, my lap, my iPad almost fell, guys. Um, you know how they do the Marvel Studios logo in the beginning where it shows the cool concept art and all that Black Widow, Captain America, all that stuff, and then it shows the little clips of um like famous little clips or memes or whatever from all of Marvel. Apparently, they they do something a little bit different, like in Captain Marvel for that one. That was literally right after the great Stan Lee passed away. So it was all his cameos that they did in that one. Then in Wakanda Forever, it was Black Panther that passed away. So they did all of Chagward Bozeman's Black Panther and all those clips. So this one, I guess they're they're adjusting it again, but for the theme of this movie, meaning that, and which is gonna be really cool how we see this for ourselves, how they edit these pictures. Um, it's gonna show what happened in Homecoming, Far From Home, and No Way Home. But if I'm reading this right, Peter no longer shares these memories of MJ and Ned. So I don't know if that means Peter is gone from these pictures or MJ and Ned are gone from these pictures, or maybe mixture of both. That would just be cool, especially for us eagle-eye um Marvel nerds that are gonna be like watching this thing like a hawk to see, okay, what pictures do they use and how they do it. That's gonna be cool. But, anyways, there's that. Then it says Peter's life. Peter is completely isolated, broke, and making his own tech from scratch, including a homemade 3D fabricator, rather than using Stark tech that he's used in the past. He has a new AI assistant named Eevee. And um it also says that he does a narrating for this movie, which is, I think, from my understanding, the first time he actually does a narration, kind of like how Tony Stark did narration for Iron Man 3. I think that that's in the same vein, that's how they're doing it for him. Um his suit is a little more grounded and handmade, um, very reminiscent of the Tony McGuire and Andrew Garfield's Spider Man suits. Cool, cool. And it says here that a police scanner interrupts Peter, prompting him to don his mask, swing away, and lead into a montage of fighting various comic book villains, which is exactly what I expected, actually. Yep. Because they said there's so many villains in this movie. How are you gonna do it? It's just like the Fantastic Four. You're gonna get a little montage of what he's been doing for the past nine months. I think that's smart. It's so smart. Yeah. And I hope they touch upon what's happened during the Daredevil Punisher stuff in this montage. Be like, where have you been? But anyways, that's don't count on it. That's a discussion. Literally, the internet's on fire with right now after this Punisher thing has been out. Be like, where is Spider-Man?

SPEAKER_00 39:06

They're asking now. I've been asking like halfway through Daredevil Born Again. I asked during the Thunderbolts movie, where the hell's Spider-Man? Like it's like it doesn't make sense to me. I get you, it's yeah, they're they're catching up what Marvel has trouble with, but yeah, they're kind of the guys out there are catching up. Yeah, especially in this Punisher thing. Well, where in the hell is Spider-Man? This is a ridiculous.

SPEAKER_04 39:26

It would be hilarious if not not just just hilarious, not in a serious note, because enough people be mad at it, but it would be funny if it shows a Sony um building and then Spider-Man's inside there and be like, that's why, because Sony literally won't let him in other stuff. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 39:44

So he's literally stuck in the Sony building.

SPEAKER_04 39:48

I anyways, that's just me. It's just on the top of my head. But what do you think of this uh script? What do you think of the new poster? What do you think? Well, we already talked about the poster in the video, the script part that I just read to you.

SPEAKER_03 40:00

What do you think of the movie?

SPEAKER_00 40:01

Let's go see this movie tomorrow. I'm ready. I want to see it. I I'm I I am doing my best to just pretend the TV shows and stuff don't happen and and just focus in on the movies and then when the stuff in the movies happen that I need to know from the TV shows, at least I have the knowledge to not ruin the movie. That's kind of where I'm at with it when it comes out of that side of it. But I like this idea of the montage. I think it worked real great in Fantastic Four. Um, because that doesn't mean you can't revisit these villains again. It just means here's a quick introduction to them. It doesn't necessarily mean like because even in the Fantastic Four movie, they discussed that hey, hey, this one's here, this one's there, this one's there. So they're still there. You know, we could still see them villains come back and that they should they just are showing that this is the kind of place that they live in. So, like boomerang, for example, will probably be one of those in the montage, right? Because he's not gonna carry his own movie. So we might see boomerang again, again later, you know, but we're only gonna get a quick little there he is, this is what Spider-Man's been doing. Yeah. I have a feeling that's kind of what uh what's the one called? The Scorpion. Scorpion, thank you. I think I think that's what Scorpion's gonna be as well. Yeah. You know, I think he's gonna be maybe a bigger scene. It'd be fun and maybe a cooler fight scene, longer. But it I think it is only gonna be, I don't think he's gonna be a main villain in this. I think our main villain in this is still yet to be known. And um, and maybe the hand might be a big part of that. Hell, for all we know, the ninjas are a part of this scene. I think that'd be kind of crap.

SPEAKER_04 41:31

You don't know who the main villain is yet? It's Gene Gray.

SPEAKER_00 41:33

Yeah, well, of course it is. I mean, why not?

SPEAKER_03 41:36

I just said that to get him going, but it's Hulk. It's the Hulk. Oh, that's right. It's the Hulk.

SPEAKER_00 41:41

He's on calm the Hulk down. Yeah, that's right. Sun's coming. Hello, Bruce. I mean, let's just have Ultron show up. But like it's anyways. Yeah, I mean, as for all we know, the hand is in this. The ninja scenes that we all see in this could be part of the same. I don't think so. Personally, I think they're a bigger part, but who knows? You know, we don't know. Yeah, I like the concept though. I think it's I'm excited. I just I don't want to see any more of them. I'm done. It's for me. We'll talk about it because it's what we're gonna do for you guys. But I'd be happy if they just shut up and just give us the movie because it's a little much right now. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 42:16

Oh no, I agree. And actually, to that point, I kinda am hoping at some time we're just gonna go back to simple Spider-Man, meaning a traditional Spider-Man villain, and I know he's part of the bigger MCU now and all that stuff, so they're gonna throw on all these other characters. I get it, but part of me misses it when it was just the vulture, it was just um like just Green Goblin from the first Toby Maguire one. It's just Electro. You know, I kind of want to see Spider-Man being by himself a little bit, but without bringing all that.

SPEAKER_00 42:51

You will by the end of this trilogy, it's gonna be him and Ned. They'll put it, they'll dedicate a whole movie to that that storyline.

SPEAKER_04 42:58

I hope they do, and I hope they don't, no offense, because I do like it when he's tied into the bigger MCU. I get it, but at the same time, what they've done so far, so good with the first two Spider-Man movies in particular, um, of this the Tom Holland version, is um touch bringing in the MCU elements, but still making it just Tom Holland's. And I get how we did No Way Home. I'm not complaining about that as one of the best movies I think they ever made, but it also is like I just I was very excited at the end of No Way Home to see what the fourth one's gonna be just Spider-Man, and then we get what we're getting, which it's probably gonna be a masterpiece for all we know. We have no idea, but I am just waiting for just a Spider-Man movie that no offense to the hand, but I want to see a traditional Spider Man villain fighting a traditional Spider Man that we know of.

SPEAKER_00 43:55

I think you're gonna get that in this, though. It might not be a villain that you say. Would be a traditional Spider-Man villain. But I really do think they're doing the montage thing very much so, like the Fantastic Four. Because if you remember, Fantastic Four was very much on its own. It did that montage in the beginning, and then it just felt like it was just that and Galactus. Them and Galactus. I do think as big as Spider-Man's looking, I there's no confirmation that we get the Hulk in this like that. You know, that w we know we get Bruce Banner, but there's no confirmation we get Spider-Man fighting the Hulk. You know, there's no confirmation that all these villains team up against Spider-Man. In fact, this actually kind of confirms that they don't, and we're seeing a montage of them. They already confirmed that now. I think they're just they're giving us all the fun stuff. It's like a reverse trick, I think, is this what I think is personally happening, is they're showing us the cameo fun stuff on the trailer. So then when we see the meat of the movie, that's actually the bigger surprise of how it goes. I'm hoping so. Because I'm with you. When we got to the end of No Way Home, and he's swinging at the end, and it's all him by himself. Part of me was like, finally, we get to Spider-Man where we he gets to be his own movie. Not that I I think it's brilliant how they got there. I like that they did a trilogy of his origin, three movies to tell him and who he's gonna be. Now we get to see him be Spider-Man, just Spider-Man. And then the way this movie is advertised makes you feel like, oh man, whoo, this is still a bigger MCU thing going on. And there's I think there's still gonna be a lot of hints to that because it is the MCU, so it's gonna do that. But I bet you we get about a good quarter into this movie, and it is just him and in in dealing with the situation he's gotta deal with, and it's just him doing it. Yeah. Like I said, I think the smartest thing they could do is never is not have Bruce Banner change. I know everyone, I know it's probably gonna happen. I get it. And maybe at the end when there's a fight, he helps. I just think I don't know. I still think that's uncalled for. And I think we we would all understand a movie where Bruce Brenner just ends up being the guy who mentors him through becoming who he what he's becoming. And that's what I think is the soup of this movie. It's not gonna be all these villains and all these MCO cameos. It's gonna be him dealing with the maturing of a spider that he is, along with a villain that's maybe might not be a traditional villain, but it will be just a villain for him to have to overcome. And then these other guys are just kind of lagged, logged, lagged on the side. Yeah. That's what I'm hoping myself, because it will still, it will feel like a Spider-Man movie. Yeah. Probably closest to the first Spider-Man we got with Tom Holland. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 46:52

I mean, I'm like I've I'll I'll give them this. They have not disappointed me with this yet. They have not done what they did with Captain America, Brave New World, and made uh in name um only type thing, you know what I mean? Like where it's actually a secret other movie yet for Tom Holland. And I don't think with Dustin Daniel Cretin um that he's gonna be doing anything like that. He sounds like it's he was excited for uh kind of like a traditional Spider-Man movie, just with all these extra flavors in it, because he's in the MCU now, guys.

SPEAKER_00 47:28

So I will say Spider-Man's in the contention of being one of the best trilogies of the MCU. If we were to sit and have a conversation about what you'd consider the best trilogy of the MCU, I could definitely, I think uh Spider-Man should be in the argument, at least have a spot to say this will be the first time if they do a fourth that ends up as good, it'd be the first time they did a fourth that was that good. Because so far, any fourths of what the MCU is doing is not good. We've only gotten one so far, and it's not not good. You know what I mean? So but once again, you're not replacing, you're not making you just it's just a new movie. So yeah, I I'm I have all high hopes for it, to be honest with you. You know, but I think you're gonna get what you're thinking, and I think you are. I have and if they don't, it's their fault, you know, and they should know better because they don't need to go big. Just give us a Spider-Man movie.

SPEAKER_04 48:23

Yeah. Actually, smaller, the better. I agree. Well, what do you guys think so far? What do you think of the Spider-Man movie that we're getting um that's been revealed? What do you think of the new poster? What do you think of that script? We haven't asked you guys yet this yet, so please go and look it up. It is officially released, so it's out there. So what do you think of it? Is it real? Is it not real? Is it doesn't give you like higher hopes for this movie? What do you guys think? And um jump down in the comment section below and let us know your thoughts. All right, Ike. Take it away. Our last topic.

SPEAKER_00 48:58

So this one uh venture into the DC side, guys, and actually not even the DCU. We're gonna go into the the uh what do they call it? The side verse of the DCU. It's hard to figure it out. Well, it's it's just like one of their side projects. It's you know, we're gonna talk about the Batman 2. Yeah, Robert Pattinson's the Batman 2. Um the director, Matt Reeves, of Batman Part 2 confirms the cast, including new additions Sebastian Stan, Scarlet Johansson, and Charles Dance. All right. So Samuel, why don't you tell us some stuff that that uh you found out just recently today, a little more detail on who they might be playing.

SPEAKER_04 49:42

Exactly, because that is I I don't know if anyone has seen this online yet, but when it was released, at least from what I saw, when it popped up in my news feed from Variety, so it's an official publication, guys. It's a big deal, which means it is official news, and so we gotta talk about it, of course. Um, it was a little vague exactly who was playing who. There is speculation, but it's funny. I kept seeing uh the the words next to their their supposed characters' name saying not fully confirmed. I'm thinking, huh? So I'm gonna read to you exactly from Variety's website what they say about this guys. So Batman Part 2, Matt Reeves confirms Brian uh Tyree, Tyree? Brian Yeah, Brian Henry. I'm just gonna say that's they're including his middle or second name. Scarlet Johansson, Sebastian Stan, Charles Dance, and more cast editions. Batman Part 2 director Matt Reeves has been rolling out posts on X, introducing a number of editions confirmed to be joining Robert Pattinson in the cast of the upcoming sequel. Among the now confirmed faces, Reeves announced that Scarlett Johansson has joined the film, uh, posting a photo of her from a 2013 film and writing next exit Gotham Welcome. Sebastian Stan will be on board with Reeves writing in a Gotham State of Mind, Welcome. Um, uh for the Thunderbolt Star. And then the Game of Thrones actor Charles Dance has been cast in the superhero picked along with Brian Tyree Henry. That's the best I think I'm gonna say it. I'm sorry, guys.

SPEAKER_00 51:21

I think you got it right that time, actually.

SPEAKER_04 51:22

I hope so. Yeah, he appeared in Joker and Eternals. Oh, I recognize him now. Anyways, let's continue. So, um let's see. It says here Johansson's Johansson, Johansson, Johansson. Johansen. Yes. Miss Scarlet's involvement was first announced in December. Uh Sebastian Stan was first reported to be in talks in January, and it is believed he is set to play Harvey Dent. So I get what they did here, guys. He announced, Matt Reeves announces that the actors are gonna be in it. But the exact characters they're gonna be in it are still a question mark. Sort of like Sadie Sink and Spider-Man. We don't really know.

SPEAKER_00 52:10

Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_04 52:11

So it is it's believed that they're playing these characters, but there's no official confirmation. They still could be anybody, but at least now, instead of uh speculation and rumor mills out there and reports that she is joining Scarlett Johansson, it is official. She has signed something, she is in this movie. And I think they already started. Correct me if I'm wrong, I think they already started uh the pre-production this film.

SPEAKER_00 52:39

Yeah, because they released photos of the Batmobile recently in their pre-production stuff. So yeah.

SPEAKER_04 52:44

Yep, and I know they had the script written uh a few months ago. They James Gunn had confirmed it is done.

SPEAKER_00 52:51

Yeah, now that Robert Pattinson's done doing the last four movies, he's gonna make seven million dollars on each. Like he's in the Odyssey, he's in you know, he's in the new Dune movie, like other than other than uh Jason Momoa, Robert Pattinson's gonna be making some money. He just did a movie called The Drama, which I'd like to see. Um that I think was uh I'm trying to remember who's in that with him, but I'm not I can't remember.

SPEAKER_04 53:12

Oh, uh Zendaya. Oh yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 53:14

So I yeah, I would like to watch that movie. I hear it's really good. Robert Pattinson guy's one of the best out there. I think he's a sleeper. Watch out for him. He's he's gonna become one of our better actors, you know, in the long run. He'll he'll be a Christian Bale. You know, he already is. He's such a chameleon, he's really good.

SPEAKER_04 53:30

I'm surprised that Marvel hasn't scooped him up yet, to be honest.

SPEAKER_00 53:33

I think he's told him no. Hot take care. I think he's told him no. Anyways. I think he is a Christian Bale in that sense, where he sees the brilliance in whatever this trilogy is gonna be of Batman, just like Christian did with Christopher Nolan. If you don't have Matt Reeves and it's more than three Batman movies, you won't have you won't have uh Robert Banson. He's doing the same thing Chris did with Chris. Yeah, Chris with Chris. It's it sounds like a great TV show for those two. Yeah. No, it uh yeah, Christopher Nolan and and Chris and uh Christian Bale did the same. There's like a hey, we're gonna let's do these three, let's we got a great story to tell. You're getting the same thing out of this. He's I don't think you're you'll never get him to do anything like a a big franchise thing like that again. You know, I think maybe the only other thing that he's kind of been a part of was the Hunger Games, right? But he I think he died in that. I'm not sure. I've never seen Hunger Games movies, so uh well Don't hold that against me, y'all.

SPEAKER_03 54:39

Was he in Hunger Games?

SPEAKER_00 54:40

He was in one of them, I think. I know he was in a couple of the Harry Potter movies.

SPEAKER_04 54:44

Yes, he was in the Harry Potter.

SPEAKER_00 54:46

I don't think he was in Hunger Games. I mean Twilight is what he's known for. Yeah, and he hated it. So I'm well uh let me take it back. I don't think he hated it. I d I think he hated the con the concept of being tied to it. I don't think he talks crap about the IP itself, but he does. I did hear and read that he saw that, oh, being tied to something that you lose your trust in or love in or the passion for, but you have to do it because you signed. I think that's you're gonna see him not do that again because of that experience. Like I said, I don't think he says Twilight's bad, but I think he says he wished he didn't commit to it like he did, because he maybe would have left earlier, you know. I know he wanted to. I think there was actually I think he actively tried to get fired at one point, but don't like I said, that's all rumor, and who knows, we don't know what's going on there, but there's a lot of speculation there.

SPEAKER_02 55:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 55:36

But yeah, it's uh so I as awesome as it is, I'm excited for this. You're not gonna see him sign on for anything other than that.

SPEAKER_04 55:43

So well, I'll confirm he was not in Hunger Games.

SPEAKER_00 55:46

Okay, I'm sorry. I thought he was, I don't know why.

SPEAKER_04 55:47

But you're right, he was in at least one or two Harry Potters. Yeah, yeah. And um that's that's before Twilight. I think that was his either before or during, right?

SPEAKER_00 55:58

I don't know. Another question. Yeah, good question. I don't know. His yeah, other than Twilight, I I caught up with Robert after Twilight. It wasn't my cup of tea. I saw the first movie um of Twilight, and I was like, okay, this isn't for me. Um, I'm not talking crap. I know there's a lot of Twilight fans out there, my daughter being one of them. Um, and hey, you know what? Love it. It's fine, it's for it's for somebody, right? It's not for me. Um and I I didn't see that had a lot of room for him to be what he wanted to be until I saw him do things outside of Twilight. Guys, he's done some awesome stuff. So in particular, back to the subject, he is a fantastic Batman. When people were all like, oh my gosh, it's Robert Panson. I'm like, at the time, my guys, have you seen a couple of the movies he's done? Because if you're just gonna base it off what you think he is like in Twilight, then wait till you see the Batman. And then when I want to watch, it's um it's almost a masterpiece. It that Batman movie is fantastic, it's great. And the penguin show after it with Colin Farrell as the penguin is awesome. I have not seen that one. You will love it. I'm gonna have to add that to my watch because it ends. I mean, no spoilers, I guess. I'm not gonna tell him right away, but it is an ending of that show in the penguin, where they remind you he's a bad guy, is none of this hero worship crap that we see where they, well, let's see this side of the bad guys, and let's see. That show does not do that. That's good. You hate him at the end. You're like, oh my god, this guy is a piece of shit. You probably and it's not just and you're not gonna be mixed feelings, you're gonna be like, Oh yeah, it's a depth, no question. Oh yeah, he's a villain. Because most of the show you're gonna be like, I'm on his side because he's dealing with other bad guys, and you're following him, and you want him to succeed because he's your main character. You get to the end and he does a couple things, and you're gonna be like, Oh yeah, he's a bad guy. I like that. Like, someone needs like what a piece of crap, but you kind of wish you never rooted for him. A lot of the I've seen like some reviews say they're upset, uh, they're physically sick over about how much they rooted for him. Oh, really? That's how bad he is. He's I'm telling you, at the end of that show, you're you're like, oh my god, he is such he is a he's a bad guy. Like, it's not just like, oh, he's a Vic Maggie from the Shield bad guy, where sometimes you agree, oh no, no, no. There's nothing this it's despicable. You you literally swear, you're like, you mother, oh my god. Like you're waiting for Batman to show up and like smash his head in. You're almost like, what is what did this happen? Fantastic ending, guys, brilliant. And Colin Farrell's so good, which he's gonna be in this as well. Oh, yeah. I I don't I don't know if it was confirmed in any of the articles, but he he's confirmed it himself in interviews. He said he's in it. Yeah, same similar kind of role, not a huge role. I think they're saving for whatever that's gonna become with him. I because Colin Farrell, guys, what you don't even know it's him. You look at it like Colin Farrell? He's so good. Good actor. Oh, he's one of the most underrated out there, guys. Watch anything he's in. Um, but yeah, and look at this cast. I mean, Charles Dance, Game of Thrones. I mean, Tyron Tywin Lannister himself. What an evil asshole in that movie, in that show. But he might not be bad in this because he's not always bad. He just ends up playing a good bad guy. You know, Godzilla King of the Monsters, he wasn't bad, but he was the bad guy. So, you know, you saw you understood his point of view, but like, yeah, I mean he he has a presence about him that I think is very, you know, it demands um uh attention. And I think that that that can be interesting. Who he's gonna play? I don't know. That's interesting to me to see who that might be. It might not be anybody bank, just adding great people to this. Because I bet we're still gonna get the people in this movie from the first. I imagine, you know, we're still gonna get the same um uh Zoe Keravits as Catwoman and uh you know some of those side characters there, yeah. Right, I'm sure we'll get Andy Circus back as is Oh Alfred, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:08

He is confirmed. I know that.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:09

Yeah, because I mean he's great in the first one with that, you know, and and same with uh Commissioner Gordon. Um I I his name escapes him right now, but Jeffrey Wright will get him back as Commissioner Gordon, fantastic as him. So I'm sure we'll get all those two, anyways. But Sebastian Stan is another one of those guys, like we talked before about Sebastian Stan. You plays Donald Trump in that one movie. Sebastian Stan is a chameleon. Now there's the one to look out for for this. If you're gonna have a villain that you don't want to be recognizable or someone that can go there with it, you got an actor right there that can do that. That actor specifically. Yeah, and we're gonna talk about that in our episode later, guys, because he's he's in here. Yeah, but he he will he will chameleon, he'll do that thing that he like he did with the Donald Trump thing, like he's done with other roles that he's had. He does a thing where he's real good at being completely somebody else. Where if you put the makeup on, you almost don't realize it's him. And uh, if he's gonna play a villain, that'd be cool. He might not play a villain, maybe he's Harvey Dent. Maybe he's not Harvey Dent. I don't know. I'm not gonna speculate that because Matt has such a unique vision that I bet you if he's Harvey Dent in it, it we probably still won't even see Two Face. You know, it still might he just be might just be Harvey Dent in it. You know, it's like we don't who knows, you know. I know the villains aren't gonna be supernatural at all. So I mean, I'll be surprised if they are. I think Matt wants to stick with the as grounded as possible.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:37

Sort of like how Christopher Nolan did ground.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:39

Yeah, but even even more so. Like kind of like how this last Batman movie was, where it's like the villain, even because Christopher Nolan, they the villain still got this kind of big theatrical thing to them. I think Matt's even damning it down. Like if you look how he did the Riddler, he did it like he's a serial killer. You know, it wasn't like some huge yeah, there was a big thing that happened at the end that was a big deal, but you know, the Riddler himself was just a guy. You know what I mean? And I think that that's what we're gonna see.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:08

Because there's there's rumored that in the very early stages of development of this film, they were gonna have Mr. Freeze be the villain.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:15

Nope, no way. He's too way too much. Yep. I I doubt it. If he does, I'd be interested to see his take on it. I'm not, I wouldn't, I would welcome it. I just I would not plan on that at all. No. Who it's gonna be, I don't know. But start thinking of your grounded Batman villains, like you know, the court of owls and stuff like that. That you could just have guys be bad guys. That would be cool. Yep. And and then that could tie in with stuff that's happened in the first one, you know, with the corruption and Gosm and how that all works. But that's how you're gonna see it. Now you're not gonna see any any supernatural stuff, I don't, I don't think. It's if you when you're saying you can get more grounded than Nolans, yeah, you can. Because even in Nolans, there's still that little bit of like fun of you know, there's that little bit of an elevation to the to the bad guys. You're not gonna get this in his stuff. And so it'd be interesting to see. I'm excited. But hey, anytime you add talent like this, hey man, it just makes the movies gonna be who knows. Hell, as far as we know, Scarlett Trans is gonna be playing the bad guy. We don't know what's going on.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:16

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:17

That'd be a nice twist. That'd be interesting. How do you feel about it?

SPEAKER_04 1:03:21

I I great cast, but there's not confirmation exactly who these people are playing. I mean, it's widely speculated that Harvey Dent and Sebastian Stan, they're that's that's gonna be his character type thing. But um this is a this is a really good cast, and so they really could play almost anybody, and I'm sure that with Matt Reeves directing and what they've already cooked up for the script, it's gonna be really good. And and adding those other characters, like you said, from the first film to carry them into this one. Um I can see that. I have mixed feelings on the supernatural stuff personally myself, only because I get it, the grounded Batman. It was very popular during the Christopher Nolan time and things like that. And I I I like the realistic type of Batman. I do agree. I think that's kind of cool. But there are some really cool supernatural Batman villains we have yet to see in live action, or at least done justice in live action, that I would love to see sometime with the graphics that we have nowadays and how you can maybe that that maybe that's gonna be James Gunn's Batman. Maybe he's gonna do that stuff that I was hoping Zack Snyder's Batman would have done and talk about like Killer Croc or a Mr. Freeze, a new version of him, you know, a new version of Poison Ivy, someone that's a little more of a supernatural-ish, but it's still in Batman's Rogues Gallery, you know.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:44

Well, think about it. You got James Gunn's DC universe is the Superman universe, what you're getting. Which is and we got Clayface coming, and that's that is supernatural Batman. Yeah, you're you're gonna get all your fun. I think we're gonna get some worldwide fun stuff. I just want to get Batman before we get too far into the other bad guys. I agree. Like let's give us our Batman. But your your Batman, the old 90s cartoon Batman, that's what you're getting with James Gunn. All that fun jazz, all that fun craziness. I just hope he delivers. I don't have much faith personally, but that's me. Until he fails, I won't worry about it. And I can't judge the Superman movie because I don't like Superman. Okay. So, because if I sat back and looked at it, Superman, the new one's a good movie. It's good. I just don't like the guy. I just don't care for Superman. So my my excitement over it isn't as high as if you love Superman, then you probably love that movie. And they do. Look what they're saying about, look what they're doing. Supergirl doesn't look bad. I just don't like super I just don't like the Super Family. Like I don't care about them. I actually look forward more to Supergirl than I did Superman. And I don't know. Ms. Batman will determine how much I'm invested. If I like the Batman, I'll deal with the rest. If I don't like the Batman, then I'm done with him. But it's all gonna be taste. I don't think James Gunn's gonna fail. I I mean, I I just look at the stuff he's done after what he did with Guardians and after what he did with even being a part of the Avengers movies and and what he did with the guy's Peacemaker's one is an amazing TV show. I mean, I know it's not perfect, I know everyone has some people might not like it. It's I think it's really good. It was surprisingly good of a character that who'd ever thought to do something with that guy. And and I and that Suicide Squad one he made was is a is is genius. So yeah, I don't know. Until he fails at one, it gives me a bad movie. I'm I'm all in.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:42

See, I think he's good at those niche type characters, those sideline characters like the Guardians and bringing them to the forefront and Suicide Squad. I think that stuff is completely up his alley, and even the stuff that he's doing with like the clay face and things like that, I see him doing that stuff. I still and I'm not like you, Superman is not my favorite of them. Yeah. But I personally did not like that Superman movie too much. I actually preferred the Henry Cavill's version.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:10

But when you watch it though, is it because it's a bad movie or it's just because you don't like Superman? Because for me, I just don't like Superman because it's a good one.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:17

I just don't think that's the I just don't think that really is the type of Superman that we know of. Yeah, I agree. I'm with you. Yeah, maybe that's his way of reinventing the character to be more relatable, but I don't think Superman was meant to be relatable. I think he's meant to be that god out of water and came down here. That's why every other iteration is the exact same way. And he did a new twist on it. I get it, and for the kids' appeal, it totally was there. My problem with the Superman movies, it felt like it was a sequel and we didn't get to see the first one. Right, right. From the very moment it started, I thought, what did I miss? And I've been sitting here the whole time. I'm like, I didn't miss anything. That's how they decided to start the movie off of you already know these guys, let's just throw them in there. And I'd be like, We really don't. We haven't had that much of an introduction to Lex Luthor too much before in the past. Yeah, he we had a and this is my only biggest critique I will have to say with the Snyder verse stuff, is that I didn't like their Lex Luthor because I thought he was playing the Joker slash the Riddler, not Lex Luthor. But I think that's more of a casting issue than a um My mind has changed on that a little.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:22

We'll have to see when we'll talk about that another time.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:25

It's the I I don't like it either, but there's I've I've recently watched Batman vs. Superman, and there's some nuances that Jesse does that I'm kind of like, you know, I see what they were going for. But anyway, we'll talk about the different kinds. Still don't care for it. But I'm with you. I just I think uh I I do think it does come down though to that I agree, it's hard to talk crap about a movie that's a good movie. It just happens to be something I don't like, you know? Yeah. It it's like it's like if we were gonna review Harry Potter, okay? I'd have a hard time doing it because it's just not my cup of tea. And there's nothing wrong with Harry Potter. There's people that love Harry Potter. Yeah, no, I I actually agree with that. I But I watch Harry Potter and I'm bored to death. Well, I that doesn't mean it's bad though, right? So that's how the Superman movie to me is is like I'm like, okay, blah, blah, blah. Okay, that was fun, cool, neat. I see why it's good. It's a it's a hit, obviously. But it's I just don't care about that character that much. And they want you to care about that character in this new iteration. And I don't. That's why I liked Henry Cavills a little more, because he's a little more stoic. So you're just kind of okay, he can just and that was a Batman-led universe, right? Well, because once Batman came on the scene, it was more about Batman and his point of view. He brings it just thing together. He's the one that you know is part of the Batman versus Superman.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:43

No offense, Superman, but when Batman enters the picture, all eyes are on him.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:48

Yeah. And it's gonna happen in this too. It will. It will eventually, right? Once we when Batman does show, he's gonna shine. But yeah, it just I just yeah, I think it's just a matter of that's just the least character I'm interested in in the Justice League, which is why it's easy to say, yeah, I don't know how I feel about the new DCU, but technically he's he's batting 100, really, if you think about it. So I get you. I I'm with you. But with this, when it comes down to Mag Reeves, though, yeah, man, it's yeah, well, it comes down to this cast and this news topic.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:18

I like the cast, I think it's gonna be cool. I'm excited to see what it's gonna be like. I'm planning on going to see this with a friend of mine who is a super hardcore Batman fan that I didn't even know about how Howard Corey was. I'm like, oh my gosh, when this comes out, yeah. You we're definitely going together then.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:35

I can't wait to see what Robert Panson does with the character now. Because he was Batman the whole time in the first one, and now we got a little taste of Bruce Wayne in it. And now I'm curious to see what his struggle of balancing Bruce and being Batman, because now he knows he has to do that.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:50

It's gonna be neat to see that, you know, what how good of an actor he is. It's gonna be neat to see how he brings that to the forefront of the dynamic between Bruce Wayne and Batman, which we didn't really get in the first, but it made sense narratively why we didn't, you know. Yeah. So all right.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:06

Well, the question is for you guys what do you think of this cast announcement? What do you think of Sebastian Stance, Scarlet Johansson, and Charles Dance being just three people of more that are named in this cast? Cool Sebastian Stan. Who do you think they're actually playing? Is it gonna be the Dent family? Is it not gonna be the Dent family? Because we really don't know. Matt Reeves didn't confirm it. It's high highly speculative, but you never know. So jump down in the comment section below, guys. Let us know your thoughts. All right, this will conclude our multiverse minutes, and now we're on our way to where? The rumor mill rundown. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:43

Dear Lord. All right, guys, welcome to the rumor mill rundown with the Gattel Multiverse. So we're gonna get into our first rumor. And I think Samuel did this to me on purpose. But our first rumor we're gonna discuss real quick today is according to She-Hulk star Tatiana Musselani Mussolani. I can't say her name. Sorry, ma'am. Uh, bringing back her green character may come with a stipulation. Really? Anyways, uh, showrunner, Jessica, is it Gao? Gao's? Gao, yep. Gao, okay. Involvement should be at least consulted to grasp the tone of the show and the story of the character. Is a showrunner needed to continue a character forward?

SPEAKER_02 1:12:36

Well go ahead, Sam. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:39

He knows the the two of us, I'm the more of the She-Hulk fan than he is. You don't like the show either, though, guys. Don't like the Fully. No, exactly. I I would be a as a fan of She-Hulk, I say this with love and admiration and respect. That was a poor show. It was um I mean, I I'm sh I'm still in my brain, it still shocks me to know that internally they think it was the most successful show they've had because I I don't I don't see that connection or w what demographic are they playing to? I don't anyways. Anyways, guys, um the the main question is a showrunner needed to continue the character forward? Case in point for the episode we're doing today on Captain America The Winter Soldier? No, it's not. Yeah, no. Captain America at this point in in the MCU timeline has been through two different people that have been um writing him, controlling him, you know, director-wise, so to speak, from his first film and then Josh Whedon in um Josh Whedon, sorry, in the Avengers film. And now we finally get uh the um the duo that's gonna take him on the rest of his time, to be honest. Yeah, and which is much deserving. And we're gonna get there when we get to there, folks. But no, I don't think so. And I don't think, just like in the comic books, a character doesn't need to stay with just its creator in order to continue the character forward. Right. Look at some of the X-Men characters from uh Chris Claremont. Now, Chris Claremont, to his credit, he created some amazing characters himself because he helmed the X-Men for so long. One of my favorite mutants of all time, Emma Frost, he created. But some of these characters like Gene Gray, he didn't create Gene Gray, but yet he was able to tell a magnificent storyline with her in the Phoenix Force. So you didn't need the original person for that. Now, yeah, maybe Stanley was right there saying this, this, and this, and all that stuff. Of course, they're execut he's executive producer in every one of these movies and projects until he unfortunately passed away. But I don't think the showrunner is needed to continue a character forward. As a matter of fact, usually you're just using a showrunner to launch a character, and then whether or not that formula and that chemistry is good is then determined by Marvel, who actually owns the character, who is going to take on that version of the character and move it forward. Um, so I I love that Tatiana Musolani is very loyal to Jessica Gow, but uh you don't need her. And actually, Tatiana, unfortunately, from what I've seen of the show, it would do you better to not have her involved with your future iterations of She-Hulk, because that show did it just did not click with the fans. And it's funny, when she said this, she also said that she thinks Tatiana thinks that if she shows up on people's screens again, she thinks a lot of people will be mad. Honestly speaking, we won't be mad. We just want to see you done right. And you can do it as an actress. You've proven that. Even in the show that was not bad, or I'm sorry, that was not good, you were not bad at your acting in it. It was what they gave you to do that was bad. And as again, I've said before, sometimes what's written in the comics does not translate well to a show or to a live-action adaptation, and that was proof. Maybe it worked out if this was if we knew that the She-Hulk show was a niche of the MCU, you know, like it's MCU adjacent, but it's not mainline MCU. That show would have gotten a little bit more praise from me, personally, because it was very comic accurate. But the problem is, like I just said, we're trying to make take you seriously enough where you can still be funny, but also be serious. And that show it it it was too meta. It you and we didn't need that for a show. Your comics is one thing, because they were having fun, the writers and the the drawers, illustrators, all that they're having fun. We get it, and that was cool. We got to see them have fun. We don't need to see them have fun with a show like that. Anyways, that's my two cents on that. Um I don't think you need a showrunner to continue a character forward.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:01

No, I mean there's two sides of that coin. Um, some of the best TV shows that I like the most do have showrunners all the way through. So I don't I don't want to sit and say you don't need it when I think it does help. I think if you have an ultimate plan, if you sit down with a concept of a show idea and you know where you want this to eventually go, and you and and then you do your first season and it's successful, like widely successful, that's when I think a showrunner is important because it means you you found the sauce, you know, you found the thing you're cooking with, right? Um I think the opposite applies here. I think that this was a failure, and you actually need a different showrunner showrunner. Because like Seinfeld, Game of Thrones, The Shield, Justify, all these things that I like a lot, whether you like any of those or not, MASH is another good one, old school MASH. They all had showrunners from beginning to end. You know, but they had a successful formula, a successful formula that worked, that they're gonna redo every time and work on, right? I don't care what y'all say about Game of Thrones, it's a great ending. So it and it's because the showrunners paid attention. Now, I'm not saying though that all those shows I just mentioned, though, had different directors though, come in and do their own take and style of something and and even take the storyline in different ways. So does a showrunner that knows what they're doing help? Yes. Do you need one to be successful? No. But if you're failing, you definitely need a different one. You need you need to find out why this isn't working. I think sometimes with TV, that's where it gets complicated. Is if you have too many visions and too many ideas in the pot, that's when your show gets weird. Because another good example is I'm a big X-Files fan. Not all of X-Files is good, and that had the same showrunner. And there's times where you get towards like the the last three seasons of the X-Files, it's kind of like, why do I like this? And it it does not X-Files in the long run never did deliver on what made it good in the beginning, and that had the same showrunner. So I just think you just need people to succeed. I don't think it's as simple as keeping a showrunner or getting new showrunners or whether you need one or not. It's just you need the mix to work. And in right now, the mix didn't work. You know, we want more of the courtroom drama. Yes, that's what we were working on. Sorry guys, you can have the comedy, but when we were promised- said Allie McBeal, and there was like two episodes that was like that. And maybe, to be honest.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:48

Maybe, yeah. Like in my opinion, the of the whole show, there are only two episodes that were good, and one of them wasn't Ally McBeal style at all, but it was actually MCU style, and I liked it. And then the second one, yeah, a little more Allie McBeal, but at the same time, it still had this when the seriousness came in that that second episode, it came and it was really good. And then when you wanted to be funny, you had natural MCU humor. The rest of it was forced.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:13

Yeah, that show could have been really good. It could have been really good.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:16

Oh, yeah, yeah. They had a great concept. We never got the concept though.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:20

Right. It was a mess.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:21

Yeah. Anyways, so that's how I feel. Yeah. Yeah. And honestly, we don't need to go too much into this. Everyone knows how I feel about it, and everyone knows how my brother feels about it. So, no, you don't need the same showrunner. But I do echo your point, which I I think I kind of said that too in the beginning, is that especially like when we come to Captain America Winter Soldier that we're gonna be talking about soon. You could go through different directors and different showrunners, so to speak. But once you do find the right one that hits, you know, because your audience unanimously is gonna love it. Not just some internal polling and data that you say, oh, it hit the general public, but it didn't hit with the fans. You a successful adaptation hits with everybody and actually gets amplified and the fans love it too. So if you do that and you hit a home run with a different showrunner for a She-Hulk show, by all means, let's have six seasons of them. Just get the right person, the right team behind it to do it and do it right. And that's why I do have hope that she is gonna be one in one of the people in the Avengers movies, because I feel like the Russo brothers, as showrunners themselves, they know how to rehabilitate a character, at least for the image part. Because if you want this character and this actress to continue on, as it sounds like she is gonna be continuing on as She-Hulk past Secret Wars, from my understanding, then you gotta rehabilitate the image.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:42

Yeah, and let's be clear. Yeah, we are saying, I think most of people online and hope everyone go and comment if you agree. It's not Tatilana and She-Hulk that's the problem. It's the show that was the problem. She's fine. We want her to stay as She-Haulk.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:58

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:59

We want that character, we want her as that character. That's fine. It's what she was in that was bad, in our opinion.

SPEAKER_04 1:22:06

So yeah, I agree. All right. So the next um part of our the next segment, I would say, next topic on our rumor rundown is related to Spider-Man and his origins. So recently, yeah, recently, the Russo brothers were discussing behind the scenes details on some Marvel films they had done. They had revealed some interesting details about Spider-Man. Uh, is by the way, this year is a 10-year anniversary of Captain America Civil War, which is why they did like a big special presentation on it. So kind of cool. Anyways, I can't wait. Yeah, can't wait to get to that movie. Yeah, 10 years. What the heck? Anyways. Um, the Rooster Brothers were the first to direct and create the MCU's Tom Holland Peter Parker in Captain America Winter Soldier. And they revealed that Peter's uncle Ben's death had no impact on Peter Parker. So, how far does this stray from the comics and most importantly, is it important for Peter Parker for Spider-Man?

SPEAKER_00 1:23:07

So obviously it strays far from the comics because in the comics that is a big deal.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:14

And in most of the movie iterations or TV show, or any iteration of Spider-Man, that's a big deal. But what they've successfully done with the new Spider-Man movies is prove that it's not. Although I will say this it the event of someone dying where he can't do something about it when maybe he feels like he should have or could have, I do think is something in Spider-Man's DNA. And that was covered with uh his DMA. So do I think Uncle Ben has to be the one? No. I think you could have got away with Iron Man dying, to be honest with you, with this new Spider-Man. But they doubled down and did the MA thing, which to me actually was I was good with it too. It was great, you know. So not that I didn't like Anime, but you know, it it hit home, you know? Yes. I do think it is in Peter's DNA to lose someone close to him where he feels like it's his fault. Yes, I do. Do I think it needs to be Uncle Ben? No, I don't. So I think that that's a complicated, that's a complicated give and take. I think it it is in their in that realm. I think in most superheroes, uh I think there the sense of loss is important, but specifically Spider-Man, I think is as a young man losing someone and doing what he's doing. Yeah, I do think that that's that is important to his sauce, which is which which they say it's not important in this, but it still happened. So it's yeah, I do think it's important. I really do.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:51

I think so. If from and I'm not a s I'm not a super like um, how do I say this, guys? I know of Spider-Man, everyone knows of Spider-Man. He's arguably, arguably next to Batman, the most popular superhero on the planet. Yeah. So I don't know anyone who doesn't know who Spider-Man is. Anyways, but from like the the hardcore Spider-Man fan perspective, I didn't read too much of any of Spider-Man's comics, maybe one or two ever, uh, to be honest, because you know, there's so many to read from, and I was more interested in Fantastic Four and X-Men. But anyways, um I think that this is the Uncle the Uncle Ben Death thing. This if you're comparing like the the gravity of the loss that Peter Parker has to experience as a young man, uh so eloquently put that my brother did right here. Um not that Aunt May wasn't important in the comics, she was very important to the growth and character development of Peter, but Uncle Ben's death hit Peter hard. It was that I can't be a little boy anymore, I have to grow up type thing. And what we got in No Way Home was that same thing, just reversed. It wasn't Uncle Ben. His death, I'm sure, had some sort of impact on him as a young child. We don't really know the origin of Uncle Ben in this iteration. Well, he is we did see his grave. Yeah, so he is deceased, but we don't know how young was. Yeah, we don't know how young Peter was when that happened, if he was around when that happened. We have no idea about Peter's parents in this iteration, which they in other iterations they do touch upon, at least his parents, and why he started he was raised by his aunts and uncle and everything. So the gravity is still there for Peter, it just shifted from Uncle Ben to Aunt May. And I think personally for me, it was a lot more powerful coming from Aunt May in this iteration of Peter Parker because we've now seen Aunt May in three Spider-Man movies plus Civil War. Um, and we got to learn of their relationship together, how close they are, and then you got to see she always reminded him of who he is, and her delivering those iconic lines of with great power comes great responsibility, and that is what you need to carry with you, as her final words to him. So beautifully done for that. Uh I got goosebumps just saying that, to be honest. It was so beautifully done and delivered by Marissa Tome and the character in general to Peter. And we, as an audience, unlike what we saw in the Toby McGuire and Andrew Garfield iterations of Spider-Man, where they died within the first half hour or so of the movie, which is again comic accurate. I get it. This we got to see a character development and relationship between. Between the two of them for multiple films. And then we saw her death. And the impact and the power behind those words and the gravity was much greater, I think, for an emotional level for me, and I'm sure for the audience in general, than it was with those other two. Because the other two, it was a given. We know he's gonna die, robber, all that stuff. We get it. But this and how she died too, which was different than the other ones, and it's just it was so good.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:26

So we felt it with them this time. Oh, not that we not that we're callous and didn't care for how Uncle Ben died in other ones. Yeah. But it just, like you said, the time spent, it it changes that. And when she said that, it was that's that's the brilliance of those first three Spider-Man movies, man. Is it's an origin story in three movies, and when you didn't see it coming until this movie happened.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:51

And then when she died like that in my head in the theater, I'm just like, oh my God. We're seeing him become Spider-Man right now. Like this whole time he's Spider-Man, right? But we're seeing him become Spider-Man. Yeah. And who else help him usher into becoming Spider-Man other than two other Spider-Man on top of it? You know what I'm saying? Like who have been through this. Yep. But we're learning of the pain with him as he learns it. And that's we are in, we're like, oh no. Like he is, you know? Yeah, that's you're very well put, Sam, because that is a hundred percent. Yeah, that that's why that's why, like I said, it's not Uncle Ben that's the important part. It's that there is a loss that has to happen in his life for him to fully embrace this character.

SPEAKER_04 1:29:35

And it was beautifully done how they did it in No Way Home, because not only when he lost, see, in the other iterations of Spider-Man, when he lost Uncle Ben, he had Aunt May there to comfort him. He was alone without no parent figure. There was no Tony, there was no Uncle Ben to comfort him for Aunt May's death. Who took that spot though? Yeah. Two Spider-Man.

SPEAKER_03 1:29:56

Who took that spot? Was two Spider-Man.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:58

Spider-Man the himself. Yeah. Yes. They saw that in him.

SPEAKER_04 1:30:02

So well.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:03

It's so brilliant.

SPEAKER_04 1:30:05

Anyways, guys. Yeah, it's so brilliant. I mean, for any hardcore, it must be down to a T into a letter a comic fan, you might not have liked it so much because, of course, it's not exactly how the comics did. But again, this is how the MCU is telling the story, and I think they did it justice to well. Guys, please comment down below what your thoughts on this. Do you think that that was that is needed to have had an uh Uncle Ben this whole time, or do you think that Aunt May was just enough? All right. Um, we're going on to our last topic here on our room mill rundown. Uh Ike, take it away.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:41

Looks like we got some secret Avengers coming up here. So uh Nightcrawler actor Allen Cumming confirms that Avengers Doomsday has secret Avengers not announced yet. They didn't want to let out, quote unquote, by the way, they didn't want to let out this certain character was coming back, so they called them somebody else in the script. It was confusing. End quote. Who could he be referring to?

SPEAKER_04 1:31:06

All right. I mean, we can't go every like every episode we have to talk about doomsday. And every episode, we always almost every episode, we're like, who's it gonna be? Who's it gonna be? Who's in there? Guess who? So thank you, uh, Mr. Alan Cumming for allowing us to talk about again. Yeah. Who is the secret character? What I mean, what code name do you think they were giving him in the script?

SPEAKER_00 1:31:33

So for me, I don't think it's as simple as other characters that just haven't been mentioned yet. I think that the I think there's characters that haven't been mentioned yet that are gonna be in this, hence, I do believe we're gonna get the majority of the X-Men. I think that there's other characters they haven't talked about yet that we're gonna get. So for this. This to me is very specific because not only did they want to keep it from us, but they wanted to keep it from them as well. And it made them kind of confused about what wait a minute. Who are they talking to? Yeah, what is this I'm talking to this person about?

SPEAKER_04 1:32:06

So, yeah, this is a so just to throw out, we won't make this too long, guys. We can make a whole segment on this, to be honest. Yep, I think I know what it is. Um forget about the X-Men. He specifically said a secret Avenger. So uh think for a brief moment and give like maybe one, maybe two examples of who do you think it could be now? A secret Avenger. And I also would like to know, which we don't have confirmation of this yet, are the Thunderbolts called the Avengers in this movie, or is it because at the end of the Thunderbolts they became the new Avengers? Are they considered Avengers too then for that for this thing? Because it could be a new Thunderbolt, but it's they're calling it an Avenger, you know.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:58

It would have no tale and coming, everybody could be Avengers, so we're not sure, right?

SPEAKER_04 1:33:01

So but we do know it's uh it's specifically a recurring Avenger that they just gave a code name to.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:10

I mean specifically in Doomsday. Specifically in Doomsday, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:33:15

So think about it for a brief moment, guys. I want you to go down in the comment section below and write who you think is the secret person he's referring to my while my brother's thinking. I'm gonna throw out two suggestions and I'm trying not to be repetitive. I'm gonna try to be a little more creative with this because to be honest, I could say the same three people all the time, and it's probably not gonna happen. And if it does happen, I'll be the first person to jump up and down my seat being like, Yes, I knew it.

SPEAKER_00 1:33:49

But yeah, I'm keeping mine pretty simple. I got two already. Okay, you got two. I wrote down one. I'm trying to think of I'm gonna leave it up to you to throw the curveballs because I'm trying to be now. If this was Secret Wars, I have a different answer, but because it's Doomsday, it's something else.

SPEAKER_04 1:34:04

See, I feel like when we're talking about this for Secret Wars, it's gonna be harder. When we get done with Doomsday and we're waiting a whole year for Secret Wars and we're gonna speculate who's in it, who's not, that's gonna be harder because that's a bigger playing field. Yeah, I feel like Doomsday is a lot more narrower of a playing field than what we're gonna get.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:21

So I'll give you three, but the third one is just in case the scenes he's talking about might actually be in Secret Wars instead of Doomsday. Because I think they're filming some scenes with these people for both movies while they have them. I I won't be surprised. So if this guy is more likely in Secret Wars, it's Robert Downey Jr.'s Iron Man. Okay. I think that we're gonna see an Iron Man Robert Downey Jr. fight a doom, Robert Downey Jr. in Secret Wars. I think that's uh I just throwing that out there. I think it'd be cool, I think it'd be fun. I think that'd be an interesting way of doing that to bring an Iron Man from somewhere else to fight that Iron Man and it'd be him and them, and I think it'd be kind of cool. Um but if it's specifically just Doomsday, my first two picks, I think it's most likely he's a Hulk or it's white vision.

SPEAKER_02 1:35:16

Those are my two guesses.

SPEAKER_04 1:35:18

It's funny. I mean, vision was one that I was gonna put as my second guess too. I was gonna say bullseye, because how Daredevil ended. Not gonna happen. It made me think, oh, he's an he's a Thunderbolt now. Yeah, not gonna happen. No, you don't think so? Nope. Okay. All right, yeah. Vision I see where you get that though.

SPEAKER_00 1:35:38

It's a good guess.

SPEAKER_04 1:35:39

Yeah, I see Vision after they did that whole special Disney upfront presentation thing on his show, how they did it, which was a little to me questionable because you could have had anything else done, but you had those two actors in particular. Yeah, I feel like that's a little nod to hey. That's probably we're gonna get uh the biggest Disney Plus post-credit scene ever in Vision Quest, and it's gonna be Dr. Dean recruiting vision or something along those lines. Who knows? Um, so yeah, I thought Bullseye. I thought that would be a niche one to throw out there. Wild, but there was I have I have some validity to that.

SPEAKER_00 1:36:15

Um no, you there's a connection. You got it's true. I think the only thing that's missing though is he's not been in a movie.

SPEAKER_04 1:36:22

I think the only other one I would say is Spider-Man. Yep, that's true. Because that's a good guess. I know in my brain, I never think of Spider-Man as an Avenger, but they did Tony Stark did that whole fake Nike thing in Infinity War, being like, You're an Avenger now, kid. Be like, oh be like, okay, so he they kind of consider him an Avenger, Spider-Man.

SPEAKER_00 1:36:43

I considered him an intern Avenger ever since the first movie. Truthfully, with him, like when he showed up to help fight Cap in Civil War. It's he was in that group. They're all Avengers at that point. I I do, I I understand like the actual announcing. I think that was just a very ceremonial thing. Yeah. In a in the sense of Tony being silly about how he does it. But I I've always considered him like an intern Avenger, basically. Like he's practicing to become one, you know. But you're right. It's really only two movies he was announced as an Avenger, right? Yeah. Um Yeah, the only second one I would say if it's also Secret Wars would be Scarlet Witch, Jonathan. Yeah, I can't. Scarlet Witch, I'm sorry. Um that possible too. Oh, Scarlet Johansson. Sorry, but Scarlet Johansson is uh if it was Secret Wars, I would have Secret Wars, right. Yeah, but Scarlet Witch could be in Doomsday as well.

SPEAKER_04 1:37:31

I won't be surprised if she is, honestly. Yeah. But anyways, guys, question is for you. Who do you think is gonna be in it? And uh we could speculate all day. We want you to speculate in the comments down below.

SPEAKER_00 1:37:42

Yeah, please. But hey, while we're on that topic, I'm gonna throw a pop quiz over to Sammy. I had a I put out a video not too long ago, and I'm sure Sammy's aware of the video, but now I'm gonna throw it over to him. Since we need to get into this mindset of recasting the Avengers, Sammy, eventually, it's gotta happen because we're outgrowing it. You saw the video I put on of us getting older. We gotta start looking at the recasting of it. I thought to myself, who's probably most likely the first one they're gonna recast? And the only real open seat, in the sense of, you know, that has nobody there right now is Chad McBoseman as Black Panther. So if we're gonna recast Black Panther, whether it's T'Challa or not, we're just talking the Black Panther character himself. So it could be a different name person. I personally think they'd be doing him justice if they completely recast Chitala, to be honest with you. That's my personal feelings. I think Chadwick, if he could speak for it right now, would like to see someone pick up that character and move on and not let that character go with him, you know. No offense. I I like that he was great. I think he's probably one of the best casts that they ever put in it. He was a good actor outside of it. It's a tragedy that he died the way he did way too soon, way too young. We could have had him for multiple of these movies. I agree. Everyone's always gonna remember him, but I really think I truly believe that he would have wanted to see another young actor, you know, someone coming up to take that role and do something with it, and us not let it go to waste, you know. And uh my my pick was Damson Idris from F1. I think he's an up-and-coming, he's done some real good stuff. I know he's done other than F1, he's done some things. I personally haven't seen any of that stuff, but I was introduced to him in F1. I watched him in F1, and holy moly was he fantastic in that movie. He's got the physique, he's got the looks, he's got the acting chops, he looks like he could kick some ass. If I had to pick my top one, it would be I would love to see Damps. And I know that that's been on the the buzz of the internet, anyways. I just happen to agree with you guys that yeah, let's get him into this. But if you had to pick one, Sam, one or two, or a couple off the top of your head, what's uh what say you, sir?

SPEAKER_04 1:39:59

Okay, there is someone that I had in mind. I just want to make sure I get him right. Um, because I had thought about this a long time ago. Let me just make sure I'm getting the right person. I don't know his name on the top of my head, but as soon as I saw him, guys, I immediately thought you are probably gonna be what I would say we should be Black Panther. Um, if I had to recast. Uh actor named Anthony Hill. Oh, I know who that is. Yeah. Okay. He to me looks like uh T'Challa. He does. Now, how I learned about him is I used to watch Grays and Amy a lot. I haven't watched the past couple seasons recently, but um he did appear in it, and it was actually around the same time that Chad Boseman did pass away. And I do I was part of the camp of recast T'Challa. Yeah. They made their decision and we saw what happened with it in Bokondo Forever, and that's given the circumstances, I forgive some of the the beats of that movie that I didn't enjoy because of it. It was really a somber movie mostly because of it, but that was the heartbeat of the movie, and they they made the best of it. But I would have recasted Sachala, and I do I agree with you, Ike. I think that that's what Chadwick actually would have wanted to pass the baton to another young black actor who can take that on and be that role model that Black Panther was for a lot of young black kids, especially young black boys. So um I agree. I I would have picked him, he would have been my first choice because he looked the part and he could act really well. But I like your pick too. I think your pick is the the fan favorite online. That's the buzz. Yep. Yeah. This guy is already employed by Disney because of Grayson Ammy, so it's kind of easy to swing on over to another studio.

SPEAKER_00 1:41:53

But anyways, yeah, I think either one of these guys would fit real well. Yeah. I I would like to see Damson get it because I think I just think he's I think he's fantastic, you know. But yeah, I think either one that would be a good grab, you know. The only other one I could think of is Morgan Freeman. I mean, could you imagine him ripping off the mask after a big fight scene and just old Morgan Freeman? Oh my gosh. All right, guys. So that's it for the rumor moves.

SPEAKER_04 1:42:16

I'd love to see Morgan Freeman as one of the elders there, to be honest. But Morgan could do it. Question is for you guys. Who do you think should be the new Black Panther, new face of Chachala in the MCU? So, all right, that concludes our rumor. Morgan Freeman. Goodness gracious. That concludes our rumor rundown, guys. Now we're on to our branch point breakdown.

SPEAKER_00 1:42:47

All right, guys, welcome to our branch point breakdown here on a Godell Multiverse. Today we're talking about the Punisher. It's one last kill. It's a Disney Plus special that they did, which I'm still wondering why. So let's talk about it. I'm gonna go ahead and do a quick little uh synopse here about it. Or do you want to just break it apart as we go? Or I think it's easy to say the whole thing and then we'll talk about it. What do you say? I agree with you. Yeah. So uh Frank Castle, suffering from severe PTSD, discovers that his punishing didn't go far enough as the surviving matriarch of the Gnucci, right, crime family launches a full-on anarchy in the streets of New York City to rid the world of the Punisher once and for all. So I watched this this week, and I know you did probably did you watch it once or twice? I and the I watched it twice. I watched it once. Yeah. So once you start us off, Sammy, what's your uh I know you put a a video online, why don't you elaborate more on that?

SPEAKER_04 1:43:50

I did I did a quick little um initial review of the um of what I thought of this. And I'm gonna start off, guys, with saying very wholeheartedly and honestly, I and I've said this before on the podcast, but I'm gonna recap it for you real quick for where I come from when it comes to the Punisher stance. I was not a fan of the Punisher like my brother was a long time ago. I liked the Punisher in the Netflix Daredevil uh season two. I liked how they introduced him, I liked the actor, I liked the acting, I liked the story that they gave him. I actually started to like The Punisher from John Berthall's portrayal. And that did continue on into Daredevil Born Again. I whenever I saw him, I thought this is cool. Um, and I did admit before, but I'm gonna admit it again, I did not see the TV show, the two seasons of Punisher from Netflix. Um but now I'm a little hesitant to only because we did get this spotlight, and I have very mixed feelings with this, and I think it just boils down to maybe my initial thoughts of the Punisher are right, he's just not my cup of tea. But well, I well I will say if I had, and I know we'll give like an official rating at the end, but in my little short reel that I put online, which you guys should should go check out sometime, um, I gave this like a five out of ten, and the main reason is the action scenes are amazing, they deserve the five points. Honestly, they're really good. The story though, it felt half baked to me. I they had when I started watching it, and like like I just said, I watched it two times. I wanted to make sure I wasn't missing anything, is the reason why I watched it a second time, because after the first time, I felt like it left a cliffhanger that it felt like they were making a movie and then they stopped and we didn't get to see the continuation. Not because I wanted to see it continue because I was amped up for it, and maybe a little bit because I wanted to see what was gonna happen to Ma, but it was very odd how they did this as a one-shot. And uh we only had one other Marvel one shot on Disney Plus, and that was Werewolf by Night. Have you watched that one yet, Ike? Yes, I liked that. That was a full-on story, continuation, beginning to end, had a uh beginning, middle, and conclusion. This did not this to me felt half baked. The parts that they showed with his suffering of his PTSD, I thought were very good, very well done. Um it just I was not a fan of this, so I um the the actress that they got for Ma Gnucci Gnucci, great actress. I loved her in some I only saw her in a couple of things. I don't know the actress's name on top of my head, but she she was fantastic and she did a great job in this role. I did want to see a final confrontation on this. It felt like if this was supposed to be their way of introducing Frank Castle into the MCU world for people that weren't familiar with the Netflix thing, they dropped the ball. I feel like they relied too heavily on the Netflix part. Where at least Born Again for Daredevil, you could jump into season one of Born Again. And if you knew what happened the first three seasons, great. If not, that was okay. You just need to know a blind man puts on a suit at at night acting as Daredevil for vigilanteism, and you got to see a little bit of an introduction to Kingpin. To be honest, the Kingpin, how he was introduced in Born Again Season One, similar to how he was introduced in Daredevil season one in the Netflix show. So that you didn't need to do so much homework for. If you knew it, great. If you didn't, you weren't gonna be completely lost.

SPEAKER_02 1:47:58

This I felt like you were lost. And I didn't like that. So that's my two cents at the moment. What are yours, like?

SPEAKER_04 1:48:09

So let's start with the good stuff. And I do agree with you. I think it was a little more whiny in this one. Oh my lord, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:48:18

Then I I don't want to be mean because I think PTSD is a very serious thing amongst soldiers and things that people have been through when it comes down to loss and all that. So don't I'm not gonna pick on that on in this this time, guys. I know we can be a little silly about it, but I'm not gonna pick on it. But I I feel like it's just so fleshed out at this point where I felt the feeling of it wasn't as as heavy. And in I trying to understand the themes of this show, of this special. Good stuff first. Before we get there, it's well acted. It's all the technical stuff shot well, well acted, music's great, very creative, cinematography. I mean, there's nothing technically wrong with this with this special. Really. Um it's just first of all, I'm not a fan that he this whole big orchestrated plan that he had of getting revenge on his family happened off screen, for one. I'm not a fan of that. Because that's kind of who he's is and what he's d doing, right? Um and then this I'm just confused. And maybe it's maybe it's because I want to give them the benefit of the doubt that John Berenthal did his homework or the writers did their homework and really dove into someone that would have this type of severe PTSD. Because when he's in the in the uh graveyard about to kill himself, and he does sees these visions and all these things, I just don't I don't feel it's earned that he comes out of that to like his whole idea of I'm gonna keep going, right? I'm gonna not give up thing. I just the balance of what they're doing to show what makes him feel like he can't give up. I just didn't it didn't come across to me. Like, so you're gonna throw an ample amount of more violence at him. That I just don't think that that sets well with me as who he is as punisher. Because now we get to the end of this. He's like, see, now I'm just the punisher. I'm gonna do my job and punish. So so your answer to what you just went through was you needed to kill 80 more guys violently. And oh, I feel better now. I just killed a bunch of people. I feel better. I don't know, guys. I just what is this? I mean, it's first of all, this is Dread, you know, the movie Dread that Carl Urban did, um, where it's dread and his new partner arrest somebody in one of the mega mega city blocks, and the gang in the mega city block shuts the whole building down, which is full of you know thousands of people, and say, Hey, you know, anyone that brings me his head, you know, gets a million dollars. And the whole thing takes place in this afternoon of them trying to get out of this building. That's this show, right? So that's this episode. So this we've seen this concept in a movie done better, for one, and for two, this isn't the punisher I like. You know, I like my I don't know, I like my Thomas Jane Punisher. I like the Punisher that's I I want to see him fully fleshed out. But this is my take on the whole thing. It's not if you like the Punisher, okay, and you just want to watch him kick the crap out of some dudes, then this is your show. Watch this episode. It's it's an hour of your time that is a great time to watch. It wasn't a waste of time. It just wasn't good. You know, it just wasn't, I don't know. I don't see it as an introduction of him into the MCU. I didn't get that feeling at all. So if that is the way they want us to feel by the end, I didn't feel that way. Uh, where's Spider-Man? There's a lot of crap going on. You know, there's a lot of things happening that we're just gonna, the new Avengers and Spider-Man are just like, oh, so whatever's going on in that building over there, we're just gonna ignore. Well, he's mutilating people. You know, I mean, I get it, they're all bad guys, but this is very this is very violent. This episode is very violent. More violent than we've seen in in other stuff that it is. Oh, yes. This so to me proves the problem. I know John Barenthal's not listening to our podcast yet. Someday, right? We hope.

SPEAKER_04 1:52:37

We like you.

SPEAKER_00 1:52:38

We love you as Punisher. I have no problem with you. In fact, I love you as an actor. I just got done watching. You just did a special hour-long episode called Gary, which is just an hour-long episode of your character from The Bear. You just released on HBO or an HBO Hulu. And it brought me to tears. You're excellent in it. And it's a lot, and it's much like this, where it's like it's just part of that storyline. You're just telling a different story of you and this other character going on a trip to Gary, Indiana from Chicago, and it's actually written by um the guy who plays the thing in Fantastic Four.

SPEAKER_04 1:53:16

He's uh Michael Chickels?

SPEAKER_00 1:53:17

No, uh in the new movie. Evan Evan Evan Bryant, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that guy. We can't say his name, but he's it it brought me to tears, Sam. Excellent. If you want to wonder how the X-Men are gonna be portrayed, watch this because this is the same writers that's doing the X-Men movie. So we discussed this, remember, about before. It brought me to tears. Your performance is beautiful. You're an excellent actor. I'm gonna say this to you right now, John Barrentwell. Anyone that knows you, anyone out there, comment this, pay, paste this everywhere, put it where you gotta put it. What they did wrong to you when it comes down to the MCU is you should have got your own movie. Yes. You're so good as this character, and this character is loved by so many, that you needed your story told in a feature film rated R, Punisher movie, where you kicked ass, you got vengeance on your family, and then you could have still done this special, and it actually would have made sense. Yes. But because you got splattered in other people's TV shows and it kind of half-assed your own show, and then put you half in another show, and then put you in this, and now you're cameo cameoing in one of the biggest Marvel characters that's ever existed, you're getting screwed, sir. You're getting screwed because your Punisher right now is confusing and convoluted, and I don't know what version of it I like because the versions of them I can't tell when one ends and the other begins anymore. And I like what I see. You're so good in this part. You just you just need your own, you're you need your own thing and not a bullshit 45 minute special. I'm sorry. That's how I feel about it. I I don't think you're wasting your time, folks. If you go watch this, I I'm with Sammy. I'm gonna give it a five because it is done very well. Action is awesome. He the acting in it is superb. It is a fun little romp for just what it is. But it's it's if you're just talking about when it talks about the character and the continuance of it and you know what this really meant and what this was, you could have done a two-hour movie and you it just would have been, I don't know. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:55:22

Very well said, Ike. Very well said. I you know, I thought the same way too. This that's why I called it half baked, because I think this should have been a movie. Yeah, this really should have been Marvel's second radar movie after the Deadpool one. Yeah, this was really good.

SPEAKER_00 1:55:40

And Marvel knows that to do it part and that you don't need to make a billion dollars, you just need to be good and you'd be awesome. That's all it's gotta be.

SPEAKER_04 1:55:47

Oh my gosh. And even if this didn't make a billion dollars, you don't need to. To be honest, I think there would have been an if this was done as a movie format where it was actually him versus the Ganucci family, and you got to see him do a John Wick style kick butt as the punisher type thing, and then maybe your post-credit scene was Ma survive because you didn't think about killing the woman, and now you could see a future potential problem happening that could carry you into the next either feature film or something else down the line. It would have been magnificent. You would have redeemed five more points. You should have done that, Marvel. You could do that. You didn't. You gave us this. We've waited now two years at least, one to two years, knowing that you were gonna do this to get this.

SPEAKER_00 1:56:33

Oh, I already see an awesome scene for the end of the movie, too. Your movie would be great. You just do this awesome action, you want to do this graveyard scene that you did such a great acting role in. You should that should have been the end of your movie. As you were sitting in front of their graves after you've accomplished everything, and now what do you got to live for? And just as you're about to do it, your wife comes up and pulls the gun down from your hand and sets your hand down, and the camera pans out and she's not really there, and you just felt it. Credits goes to black. Movie's amazing. Tell me, I'm telling you. Yeah, no, I someone's doing you wrong, sir.

SPEAKER_04 1:57:05

I I agree. I want to see John Bernthal continue in this role.

SPEAKER_00 1:57:10

I just think that this was you just how often we don't know you without the PTSD. I just want to see you in a zone of the only identity I have now is the Punisher. And I think that that's what this wants you to think it is at the end. Yeah. It just I don't know though that. I don't know that though. You know, I don't we don't need we understand the turmoil you've gone through. We don't need you to play that anymore. And the John Wick similarities, the dog dying in the beginning.

SPEAKER_04 1:57:42

It's wait, it's it's obvious, right? Yeah, it's like John. It's like this is John Wick meets the raid meets Judge Dredd. Yeah, yeah, for sure. There you go. That's that's your movie. And you know what? It's okay to keep those concepts, just execute it well. You didn't. That's the problem. Great action, great fighting sequences, yeah, amazing well done, acting wise. Everybody acted the crap out of the world.

SPEAKER_00 1:58:06

See, the problem is this John Barenthal plays inner turmoil very well. And they're they're typecasting him as this. And that and I if I was his manager or someone in his inner circle, I'd turn to him and say, Maybe play someone a little softer. You can still be a badass, because I think he in real life he is someone that likes being a he I think he likes being an alpha. He's a very alpha human being, which is nothing wrong with that. You know, I I think he's awesome, but he doesn't have to always be broken. Because even in The Bear, he's a broken person. He plays it very well. Um almost anything I've seen him in, he's somewhat of a broken person. And it's like, let's let's just make you a badass and let's let this other stuff be what it was, and now let's just let you be the badass. If I was someone, I'd be sitting down with him and telling him, you need to be. Yeah. We need you to make the accountant three, by the way, with Ben Affleck. And we need you to be just more of a badass. So we I want you though. Like I said, I wish if I could talk to him directly, I don't I would hate for them to recast him or get rid of him because of any kind of clout that this gets, it's bad. Because I think it's actually getting good reviews. So we're probably the only ones, and we're not gonna change the landscape. So so don't worry about it, John. Our opinion ain't gonna lose you your job. And like I said, it's not you that's the problem. I think you're being done disservice.

SPEAKER_04 1:59:30

Exactly. That to that point, it's not you, it's the writing, it's what they did to you in making this a special. It sounds cool. Oh, he's getting a special on on it. All that really means is you're getting one crappy episode. You're not even getting a full season of anything. Yeah, it's the same length as some of these Daredevil episodes, and it just I know you had your hand in doing this. I don't think it was you who did it this way. I think if anything, you had certain requirements from Disney that said, All right, you want to be part of the creative process. We're giving you 45 minutes to do this show, and you need to, by the end of it, have this justification while you're still here.

SPEAKER_00 2:00:13

You definitely did the best with it with what you had, the parameters you had to work with. So we give you your flowers for that. I just wish instead of them putting the time into this fake we don't know how to get it together blade movie, they should have just given you a Punisher movie. Yeah. Because we'd have had it by now, we'd have loved it by now, and we'd have been waiting to see you again by now. Yep. And now we're scrambling to make to make it make sense that you show up in Spider-Man.

SPEAKER_04 2:00:38

And honestly, there was enough a creative team behind the scenes to do this special, just turn this into a theatrical movie, and you are you're done. The same set pieces, the same things, just uh expand the story to make it more complete, full circle moment.

SPEAKER_00 2:00:54

So around Halloween time. Oh shit. You see kids in Punisher costumes and everyone going to the movie theater to see you kick ass. I don't know what they're thinking. But, anyways, that's how we feel about it. Sorry, guys, that was a short uh branch point breakdown, but it's it was it was just one episode, you know, it wasn't even a really a full hour. It was it was, you know, and it was somewhat let down, but it's watch it anyways. Let us know what you guys think of it in the comments down below. You know, uh hopefully, uh obviously I think everyone else likes it more than you and I do. So who knows? Yeah, yeah, who knows? All right, what's next? So, moving on after this, guys, we're going into our main event. It's our March to Doomsday, our retrospective on Captain America, the winner soldier. Oh my this is a good one, guys. All right, buckle up, here we go.

SPEAKER_04 2:01:51

All right, everyone. Welcome back to the Goodell Multiverse Podcast. We are excited. We're gonna talk about Captain America, the winter soldier. Oh my! As you guys know, Captain America is my favorite Avenger, and this movie. This movie, man. Oh my gosh. I am so excited. So let's let's just we're gonna dive in. We'll have a quick history behind the film, and then we'll take it away with the breakdown and everything. Um, all right, here we go, guys. Captain America The Winter Soldier, released into theaters April 4th, 2014. The main cast included stars such as Chris Evans, Scarlett Johansson, Samuel L. Jackson, Sebastian Stan, Anthony Mackey, Emily Van Camp, Haley Atwill, Colby Smolders, Frank Grillo, and the great, late Robert Redford. All right, Marvel Studios' development of Captain America The Wonder Soldier marked one of the most important turning points in MCU history, arriving during a period where the franchise was evolving beyond straightforward superhero origin stories into more ambitious genre filmmaking. Following the massive success of the Avengers in 2012 and the financial success, but more divisive releases of Iron Man III and Thor of the Dark World, Marvel wanted the next Captain America film to feel radically different from its World War II predecessor. The studio moved away from the retro war adventure style of Captain America The First Avenger and leaned heavily into modern political conspiracy thriller inspired by films like Three Days of the Cant Condor and The Parallax View. Instead, Marvel hired directing brothers Anthony and Joe Russo, who were mostly known at the time for television comedies like Community and Arrested Development. The decision surprised Hollywood and fans alike because the Russ had little blockbuster action experience, but Marvel was impressed by their abilities to balance character, pacing, and grounded storytelling. That gamble would ultimately reshape the entire MCU and launch the Russos into becoming Marvel's most arguably important directors. Filming began in 2013 in Los Angeles, Cleveland, and Washington, D.C., with Marvel aiming for a more realistic visual style than earlier MCU entries. At the time, Chris Evans was becoming increasingly identified with Steve Rogers after The Avengers elevated Captain America into Marvel's central heroes. Though Evans was still uncertain about the long-term fame and franchise pressure. Scarlett Johansson had become one of the MCU's breakout stars thanks to Black Willow's popularity, and the film significantly expanded her role as Natasha Romanoff. Sebastian Stan, who had only briefly appeared as Bucky Barnes in the first film, suddenly found himself transformed into one of Marvel's most long-term characters as the mysterious Winter Soldier. Samuel L. Jackson also received a much larger action-oriented role as Nick Fury, while legendary actor Robert Redford joined the cast in the a major surprise move that aided prestige and old school political thriller credibility. Fun facts from the production include the Russell's insisting on more practical stunt work and hand-to-hand combat inspired by the raid films, extensive on-location shooting in Cleveland, doubling for Washington, DC, and the now famous Elevator Fight, which became one of MCU's most iconic action sequences. The movie also quietly changed the direction of the MCU by destroying SHIELD, proving Marvel was finally willing to permanently alter its universe rather than simply reset everything by the end of each film. When Captain America The Winter Soldier was released in 2014, it met with an overwhelmingly critically acclaimed critical acclaim, sorry, and is widely considered one of Marvel's best films. It earned approximately 90% on Rotten Tomatoes from critics and 92 from audience, with praise focused on its grounded tone, action choreography, political themes, performance, and espionage thriller atmosphere. Financially, the film was also a massive leap forward for Captain America franchise, grossing around $714 million worldwide against a production budget of about $170 to $177 million. More importantly, it fundamentally changed perceptions of what MCU films could be, proving Marvel could successfully blend superhero storytelling with other genres while advancing a larger interconnected narrative. The success of The Winter Soldier directly paved the way for the Russo brothers to later direct Captain America Civil War, Avengers Infinity War, Avengers Endgame, and soon to be Avengers Doomsday. Avengers Endgame making the film the most inf making this film, I should say, um, Captain America the Winter Soldier makes this film one of the most influential projects Marvel Studios has ever produced. Oh boy. There's a lot there.

SPEAKER_00 2:07:48

Alright, guys. So Captain America the Winter Soldier follows Steve's rot Steve Rogers, who, while adjusting to modern life, uncovers a massive conspiracy where Hydra has infiltrated Shield from which, from within, sorry, betrayed Rogers, Black Widow, and Sam Wilson, or Falcon, must combat a brainwashed assassin known as the Winter Soldier to stop a catastrophic plot. Woo wee.

SPEAKER_04 2:08:14

Yeah. Wow. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_00 2:08:16

So what are your thoughts on the the history? Yeah, that makes sense. Um, I think the Russell's were definitely a big gamble at the time because they hadn't done much. So it's it's definitely a a lot. Obviously, it you know, would I'm not gonna talk much about after the movie come out because we're gonna get into our retro, but the beforehand stuff, yeah. What a cast. I mean, to get these people together. And I often actually wonder why they decided they wanted to change direction from the first, because the first was so successful. Um, but man, I'm glad they did. So yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:08:49

Yeah, well, it it's continuing with that theme of uh fish out of water, and I'm glad that they did that. And we're gonna get into that in a moment. I'm I don't want to be jumping too far ahead, guys, but it is this is definitely a big gamble that they took. Yeah, like you just said, those directors that haven't done anything like this before. Not only have they not done um blockbuster films before, they have not done action genre at all.

SPEAKER_00 2:09:19

Yeah, pretty successful franchise at this point.

SPEAKER_04 2:09:22

Yeah, and yeah, not just a sequel, but this is the Marvel is direct. They want a full-on conspiracy political thriller action spy heavy type film. And I well, I don't know. Apparently, so I will say when I was re-watching this film, I did something this time that I I do like to do this personally, guys, but in our retrospective reviews, I have not done it until this film. I put on the my DVD version that or the Blu-ray version, and I watched the movie in full with the commentary. I like doing that, especially for movies I really like, and for this genre in particular in Marvel MCU stuff, I do do that um a couple times, and uh they had the writers and the Russo brothers on, all four of them, amazing people. I mean, these are the same writers that got us Infinity War and Endgame, and they are the same writers that are doing Avengers Doomsday right now. So tagging tag teaming them with the Russo brothers, and now we're in our retrospective review, just touching the very beginning of all their origins in this in the MCU, and we know what's gonna happen later on, and we can't wait to get to those episodes, guys, for you. Um, it makes me very um uh comforting to know that Doomsday at least is in the right hands if it's gonna be done right. So, anyways, um I did watch for this part that I was talking about for the history part. Um, I was learning that they pitched this to Marvel, and Kevin Feige immediately said, Yes, we want these guys.

SPEAKER_00 2:11:02

I was literally just gonna comment the pitch had to be awesome. Because they don't have a they don't have a anything to show for it. Yeah. So they had to come in and be like, so this is our idea. And they had to be like, What?

SPEAKER_02 2:11:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:11:13

Say that again? Yep. And they must have proven that they were fans, because these guys are clearly fans of this material. Yeah. You know, obviously they've they've said that a lot, you know. I see, I tend to try not to watch the commentary when we're doing our retros because I I feel like they would sway me. So I'm careful about that because I don't want to be I don't want to be uh hoodwinked into being okay with something from hearing them explain I want to see their product and judge them what they gave us. Not saying you didn't do that. You know, I'm because I I hope that it didn't sweat. You don't think it swayed you at all when you watched it? I did my notes before I watched it. Okay, so you when you watched the first time, you did all your notes and then you just for the hell of it watched the commentary. I didn't know. Yeah, that's cool.

SPEAKER_03 2:11:56

Well that's fine.

SPEAKER_00 2:11:56

Well I didn't for me, it's like I'm definitely try to stay away from. I do like watching films of commentary too, and especially the ones I really like. Um but when I'm trying to especially when trying to review these ones though, I I want them to stand for what they put out too. You know what I mean? Well, exactly.

SPEAKER_04 2:12:12

Like we talked about before, you shouldn't have to watch the commentary to get the white writer's.

SPEAKER_00 2:12:16

I bet it's a good commentary though.

SPEAKER_04 2:12:18

I I want to see it now like that. Yeah. No, well, how I did this, and uh usually how I do my reviews, guys, is I I watch it one time through, then I watch it again if I can, and then I do start doing my notes. So um at this point, this movie was so enjoyable for me, and I knew going into this, because this is this is in my initial top 10 favorite MCU films. And after I watched it one time through, uh Monday this past week, getting ready for this episode, we filmed these guys on Friday nights. So even though it might not be released to you until like Sunday or Monday, it just takes that long for me by myself as a hobby doing the editing. But um uh I immediately, once I'm done editing an episode, I jump into whatever our next topic's gonna be in our next movie. So I watched it all the way through on Monday night, and I was reminded how much I like this film. And every night since then, I've put this film on. So I finished my notes on this. I want to say Wednesday night. I finished it early Thursday. Um, when I woke up, I did the final touches, and for for craps and giggles, I decided to on um on Thursday night since I was gonna watch it again, anyways. I'm like, let me just see what they were what they thought about the self-s film. Because I already had fleshed out my thoughts. But, anyways, um yeah, no, I'll try to I'll keep that in mind so I don't get hooked wiggled into something. I'm gonna try doing just like what we've been doing, just watch the film for what it is.

SPEAKER_00 2:13:46

Because sometimes you'll hear them talking and be like, oh, I get what you're talking about. But that's not the thing. You're supposed to watch it without needing that. Yeah, yeah. But no, I'm with you. I actually have not watched this with the commentary, and I I might actually this weekend when we're done, because this it actually sounds like it'd be a great one to watch it with.

SPEAKER_04 2:14:03

Yeah, well, what's nice about this is at least for my perspective on this, is I was able to learn a little bit more of the movie as I was watching it themselves. So yeah, if you're if you've already written down your notes, you already have your thoughts and opinions on it, and you can make sure you're not hood-winked and you can separate both of those things, then definitely I encourage everyone online to go and watch this movie with a commentary. Watch all the movies honestly with a commentary, even the ones when you have a really bad feeling about it, just watch it just to see what they were gonna, what they were interpreting it, even though you know it didn't come across the way they wanted to. At least you could have gotten a better idea of why they make some creative decisions. Yeah, good point. So, anyways, maybe, maybe not, maybe they don't touch upon it in some of these commentaries. And you're like sometimes they don't. That's stupid. Anyways, um why don't you start off, Ike, with uh Act One, the break the uh Act One.

SPEAKER_00 2:15:00

So Act One, guys, after the events of the Avengers, Steve Rogers is working with SHIELD while struggling to adapt to modern life. Alongside Natasha Romanoff and Nick Fury, he uncovers suspicious activities surrounding Project Insight, a plan to use Heli characters for hello helicers for global preemptive strikes. Fury is attacked and seemingly killed after discovering corruption in Sha Inside Shield. Okay. There's a lot in that first act.

SPEAKER_04 2:15:32

There's a ton of stuff that goes on in this this thing. Yeah. But you know what I notice is that it's and we have this playing in the background, guys. So when when we're talking about we can see some glimpses of the movie and everything like that, the pacing doesn't is perfect. Yeah. There is not one time where it slows down to the point where you're like, oh, really? It's it's just it's really good.

SPEAKER_00 2:15:53

It pretty much keeps going, right? Right is right from the start. Yeah.

unknown 2:15:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:15:58

It has some quiet moments, but that that's okay. Not not quiet as in like any quiet moment they have, it's a lot of exposition, which is good though, because it's the right kind of exposition. It's the stuff you need to hear, you know. So what worked for you in the first act? So uh the whole thing is good. Um it this this is a tough one, guys, I gotta tell you. I'm trying to be as critical as possible. And I love this this beginning of this movie. What worked for me for sure is the believability that um Shield has been infiltrated. Uh because that's something that even in conspiracy theories like people have today, where they think that there's people in our own government here in the United States that are anti-American, but they're in our government because they've faked it and they knew that the only change they could really make is get there. And I I happen to be someone that thinks that that is has happened. It's kind of been proven it's happened before. It's obviously if it's in the zeitgeist and it's something that's real, right? Um, you know, bad guys have thought of this if we're thinking of it in our movies, right? People have thought about this. So I believe this, and I like I like this. I actually like the idea of making SHIELD out to not be that safe haven that we thought it was in Avengers, even though there were the secrets in Avengers and then Shield was still kind of sketchy. You know, this was like, oh, it's more than sketchy. Like, this is like all branches of government are infiltrated when it comes down to Hydra. So I bel the what works for me that other than everything else, because the action in this is fantastic. What really works for me though is it's very believable about the corruption and about the behind the scenes stuff for sure. How about you? I see you got a big paragraph here. Oh jeez. Let's talk about some of this stuff. What's do we want to talk about just water fit? Because I'm gonna hear here, let's just I'll spoil it. Okay. I don't think I have anything in this first part that doesn't work. Okay. Maybe some black widow jokes don't land all the time. That's it. That's picking nuts. And that's dumb. Who cares? Right? Yeah. Other than that, I we I don't think we need to talk about what doesn't work. Yeah, because I I'd rather just talk about our favorite shit that happens in the first part of this. Because there's that's pretty much all that happens is nothing but cool stuff.

SPEAKER_04 2:18:26

I tell you, this is this is one movie I'm gonna say that I it's a tough one though. It's hard to critique it because just and um I'm just gonna talk about just this first act, because I'm gonna probably be repeating myself two more times here, but they do such a good job with the story of this movie, and then you couple that with the action, with the acting part for all the actors on their end doing superb jobs. The CGI is excellent. The ever it's it's so yeah, just like my brother. I don't have a paragraph that says what I didn't like, I only have a paragraph on what worked, and I started off writing everything. Literally everything in this first act is really, really good. That opening scene of Steve running with Sam Wilson, with Sam Wilson.

SPEAKER_00 2:19:22

It's on my notes right there, the very first thing.

SPEAKER_04 2:19:24

I gotta say. Oh, yeah. Sorry, no, you go ahead. No, you you say it because you're gonna say it. What the this is the way to introduce a new character. Yep. This is it's it's so we we've gotten to this point now, I feel like, in the MCU, where in order to introduce a new character, they either feel like they're shoehorned in or they're forced upon you. And it whether it's a major role or a minor role, if that feels like that's how they've done it recently for some of these new characters. And I think if you gave it a little bit of a softer, more organic touch, the way they did with Sam Wilson here, it not only will you gain a fan base for that character and you want to see more of them, but you don't alienate your audience to a degree where they're like, Oh, now we have to know this character, as opposed to I want to know this character. Right. And Sam Wilson in this movie, you want to know more about him. Yeah, he becomes an instant fan favorite, just his natural demeanor, his personality, and you can see how he can form a friendship relationship with Steve Rogers right there. It's just it's so well done. And for the first opening scene, it's it's simple. They're jogging, nothing too crazy, but you see how fast Steve is running. It's ridiculous.

SPEAKER_03 2:20:49

It is ridiculous. You're watching and you're like, Oh my gosh, he really is running fast. You're like, on your left, on your left, and it gets so funny when he's like, Don't say it. Oh, it's just it's so good. It's just so good. And even the the joke of him later, be like, You should be ashamed of yourself, go run another lap. Did you do it? I assumed you already did it. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:21:09

It's so good, it's so well done. And I like this Steve kind of gives him crack crap back. You know what I mean? Like, oh, it's it's great. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:21:17

I I love the it reminded me of when I did watch it in the movie theater, just cracking up at some of these parts because when they're funny, they're genuinely funny for me, at least for me personally. When he pulls out the little um notepad because he's writing out that soundtrack, and then if you take a pause on your screen and you see what he wrote down, I love Lucy is number one, and you're going on the list.

SPEAKER_03 2:21:42

I'm like, oh my gosh, this is how much he's gotta catch up with.

SPEAKER_00 2:21:47

Oh my god. I think it's just funny that he's trying to, right? Yes. I think that's what makes it more funny. It's not that he's writing these things out, but he's like, Okay, this was his interesting to me. You know what I mean? And those this is the list you got so far.

SPEAKER_04 2:21:59

And that's that's the part of the fish out of water that they're they did a creative twist to. Yeah, they still kept him that man out of time type thing. Oh, but so innocent feeling.

SPEAKER_00 2:22:12

Yes, yes, it's it's he's like a child that's not a child, like right, you know.

SPEAKER_04 2:22:17

He's yeah, he's the type of guy that hasn't been let down by his government yet, and now he's seen the flaws in this movie. Yeah, and he still remains optimistic and hopeful, but yet realistic in saying this stuff is not right. I love this guy so much, he is so good. He is that hero you want to root for, and you don't want anything bad to happen to him because he still, like you said, has that innocence about him that we lose as we get older and we see the crap in the real world. He's had the luxury of not having to see that firsthand until it's hit in his face, and then it's this constant wave of disbelief, and that there's there's something more out there, and I'm gonna find it and I'm gonna do it, and it's just so well done how they roll it.

SPEAKER_00 2:23:03

Yeah, and I like that they chose that he gets to still see Peggy. Oh, oh. Even though she's 200 years old, you know what I mean? Like she's old as dirt, but actually it's on right now. I do like that though, because it's like this is that part of him that he's always gonna have a hard time letting go of. You know what I mean? Yeah, and I I enjoyed this aspect of it. It's it's a great scene, but kind of a heartbreaking scene when you realize that she has obviously she's got like a dementia thing going on. Yeah, yeah. And that's I think I could only imagine being someone like Steve who fell in love with this person back in the day, and it's the only person he's ever known like that to see her that way, you know.

SPEAKER_04 2:23:50

Yeah, what a what a wild, what a wild ride this guy's been on. By the way, on that scene, and we're seeing it right here as we're talking about it, I know it's just going away, but did you notice any flaws in that scene at all? Because I'm gonna tell you a little sneak peek or a little behind the scenes about that scene in particular. No, maybe nothing that sticks out to me. Why? So that scene, they got an older actress to to play Peggy, but they digitally removed her face and they put Haley Atwell's face in there. So Haley acted the same scene, but they digitally took her face off her body, put it on this older woman, and updated for the wrinkles, and they had to do special lighting for Haley as she was acting to make it highlight any imperfections. That is seamless CGI right now.

SPEAKER_00 2:24:39

Yeah, it looks really good. I just thought she was just amazing.

SPEAKER_04 2:24:42

It looked exactly I didn't even think it was Haley Atwell, to be honest. I thought it was just a different actress. It just looks so good and convincing. Yeah, so yeah, anyways, I just when I learned that, I thought, oh, I have to mention that. That is cool.

SPEAKER_00 2:24:55

That is cool, yeah. Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_04 2:24:57

Um, yeah, any anyways, that that scene, I agree with you. That is a that is a great uh scene when he's when he um sees Peggy again, yeah, and that she's still alive. But it's it's yeah, it's bittersweet. It's very bittersweet. It's almost heartbreaking. Be like, oh, you got to see your girl again, but your girl's an old gal now, you know? Like, oh it's just something, anyways.

SPEAKER_00 2:25:22

Let's talk about Nick Fury for a second. Oh my gosh. Holy cow, his truck is a weapon. Nick I love his truck. I watched it. Even though we don't really get to see all the things he wants to do because half of it's damaged, and he makes that joke of what's not broke. But the fact that the stuff that he's saying makes you go, What? What do they do with his car? Like, that's wild, right?

SPEAKER_04 2:25:43

That well, yeah, that whole the whole thing is just that this is how well of a masterpiece this movie is when it comes to the plot point for this. Yeah, there's no part, especially in act one, but it does continue on, and we'll get there when we get there. But it just it keeps the same like beats. You know, it's always referencing back to there's something wrong here, and Nick Fury knows there's something wrong, why he can't access a file, and then he goes to Alexander Pierce, and then you find out what their relationship is like, and then why, and then all of a sudden, all the blue, it seems like he's being pursued, and it really buys you really buy into this conspiracy theory when you think Nick is the head of SHIEL, he should know it all, and then you find out there's other actors at play here. It's just it's really well done.

SPEAKER_00 2:26:34

That actually leads to my standout moment, which I think is when he finds Nick in his house, in his apartment. I like this scene. That's my standout moment for the beginning. Because not only is it the scene where we think he dies, you know, obviously because he gets shot, but it's also I just like how that's put together, where he's writing on the thing for Steve to read. And out of everybody, out of is is like weird as Nick is about things and not telling people anything, and no, out of everybody, the only one he trusted at all at that moment was Steve. Which you kind of see bothers Natasha later a little. You know, because I don't think Natasha this and we'll talk about her too while we're in this. That's my standout moment, though, is that with him there. But I will have to say the thing about Natasha in this is it definitely doubles down on this idea of she's trying to get rid of the red in her ledger, right? Yeah, but this is the first time in the MCU that we see what that really means to her. And when she realizes that, you know, oh no, the the group I've latched myself onto to redeem myself is now evil too. Yep. Like shit. So she can't catch a break. So when she's sad watching where she thinks Nick is dying, I interpret that. She's not it's not because she's close to Nick. It's because she's seeing that's that chance that she had is is leaving, is gone now. Which is why at the end she is the way she is about the Avengers, because now she's doubling down on being Avenger, because like okay, now I can only I can trust these group of guys, you know, because we've been through it now. But like, you know, that's why she was so gung-ho for Shield, because she thought this was her way of fixing it. Yeah. So I yeah. Amazing stuff with her in this beginning part. Oh, like, but yeah, what's your stand-up moment, real quick, if you have a specific one? Because I like that I love this where he's in as a part. I just that stands out to me. It just stuck out to me.

SPEAKER_04 2:28:37

That was a real creative no, that is really creative. That was really cool. I had this tells a lot about that character. It was it's very hard for me to just pick like a specific moment. I know his whole car scene was a police. Is it's so well done. What a great action sequence. Oh my gosh, it's so well done. It's it's um, I am just I'm shocked at how well that they performed it, how well they wrote it. This actual car scene was inspired by real life events in Brazil. Oh, really? The Russo brothers saw a news clip of a car chase where the the perpetrator the cop cars couldn't continue on in traffic, and but the perpetrator was driving around still and they were chasing after him, and they use that as inspiration for part of the scene. Oh, yeah, whatever the hell his car is.

SPEAKER_00 2:29:30

No, and it's like the Batmobile Times 2.

SPEAKER_04 2:29:33

Yeah, it just this car this takes a beating. This car takes a big beating, and the stuff that they do, and I want I love how he's nonchalant with shooting the bullets because he knows it's bulletproof.

SPEAKER_00 2:29:44

He's just watching. Yeah, this is a good stuff.

SPEAKER_04 2:29:46

I tell you, if there is a package for my Jeep that I could get just like this, theory, but like I don't the weather package, I need that where I'm in Western New York, guys. We snow like crazy when it happens, so I need that, but I also need this bulletproof package. Yeah, I feel like that will help me for some reason. I just want to see on my screen 99, 100 bulletproof. I just that's that's so cool. I want it to speak to me too, just like how it does here. That is so cool. Oh, just say, like um, window integrity, 98. And then it just I'm like, oh my gosh, this is so cool.

SPEAKER_00 2:30:24

But they're literally trying to use a ram to get into his thing. Yeah, like a like a literal batting ram to get into his car.

SPEAKER_04 2:30:30

Oh, and and when it punches, it punches like the whole car is going back and forth, and it's it's so crazy. And then he pulls out a gun in the middle of the country.

SPEAKER_00 2:30:39

In the middle of the council, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:30:41

It's wild.

SPEAKER_00 2:30:43

You I could see your your Jeep now, the your uh your gladiator, it'd be the it'd be all black, the Nick Fury edition.

SPEAKER_02 2:30:50

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:30:51

That'd be badass. I want the Nick Fury bulletproof tires. I mean, come on. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_04 2:30:56

What is going on? Yeah. Anyways, that the so for a specific scene of this whole thing, it's really hard to pick. There is one scene that I okay. Now that I'm thinking about there is a standout scene that if I didn't if I couldn't pick like a whole 20-minute arc like this kind of was or whatever. Yeah, it's okay though. The a specific scene I would say that stood out a little bit was when um Steve goes to meet Sam at the um the meeting that they're having for survivors of war. Um I don't know what the specific name is and all that stuff, but it's for veterans and things like that. And hearing them talk about they see a uh a plastic bag flew by and they get PTSD thinking what it was over in Afghanistan or Iraq, wherever they were in the Middle East and all that stuff. And um, I like that it what's what I really like to standout for me is not only do you see the more human emotional aspect of things, but Steve is experiencing you're experiencing it with Steve. Yeah, because Steve, let's face it, guys, he was literally in the war when he got frozen. Then he gets thawed out and he's fighting a god in New York City with all these other gods and great, great people. So now we're seeing what Steve is like in the modern world, and he actually experiences some of this stuff, but he has he still has a mission, he's still in service, so to speak, for shield and doing stuff that he doesn't it's not dwelled upon too much, but yeah, it's it's a comforting thing kind of thing, and it for me at least it's nice to see it through his perspective. Yeah, and I love how this kind of echoes later on in Avengers Endgame when he's doing it.

SPEAKER_00 2:32:44

Yes, I thought the same thing when I'm I'm like, oh my god, forgot about this.

SPEAKER_04 2:32:48

Yes, that that that it's it's him taking that on, knowing how much that helps, you know, like not yeah, not only knowing how much it helps, but seeing how passionate Sam is about the yeah, the um I forgot what this is in particular called. No, there's terminology for these type of meetings, this type of of therapy, verbal therapy type thing.

SPEAKER_00 2:33:07

But yeah, it's not AA, but it's like a yeah, therapy kind of thing.

SPEAKER_04 2:33:11

It's a counseling type thing, but it's not like a one-on-one. It's you feel connected with other people going through similar problems. I love how they mimic that later on. It's just so cool how they kept that and how Steve learned from that from Sam. I think that's really cool. Because Sam's always learning from Steve, and now Steve actually learned something from him, anyways. Um so if I had to pick one specific scene, that would be probably my standard. Good moment.

SPEAKER_02 2:33:34

Good pick. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:33:35

For sure. Yeah, this I mean and then Nick Fury dying. Oh gosh, I mean when I saw this for the first time, I was I was I was for sure thought he was dead.

SPEAKER_02 2:33:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:33:47

I was like, wow, did they really do this? And you know what? This is one of the fake deaths that I will let them get away with because of how well it was done. You know, it was some people complain you could say that. This would be the first time they do the nobody really dies in this universe thing. But this, I think this was necessary for the story. So Yep.

SPEAKER_04 2:34:07

Well, I I remember at the time when this happened, I didn't hear anyone complaining at the time because the comic book fans that know of Nick Fury, he's faked his death a lot in the comics. There's actually times where he would fake his death and then have a robot body double take his place. And then when that gets shot down, you think he's dead and it turns up it's just a robot. It's classic McFury stuff. Yeah, for sure. They don't go that far with it here. They keep it a little more realistic. But um, this is probably some of the best action scenes Samuel L. Jackson I've ever seen him as an actor personally, anyways, do. Yeah, he does some, I know, but this is this is top-notch. And what they've given to Nick Fury himself, this is it shows that he is the ultimate super spy. Why he where he came from type thing. He's not just a figurehead for SHIELD. He actually was something like this, you know. Um, yeah, and I speaking of spy stuff, I loved that Nick Fury. This is one of the things I like about um a Steve. He's very simple. It's it's it's he has a team, he has a mission, they are to accomplish the mission, no one's a deviate from it. Right. But yet Nick Fury is like, Well, I need something cleaned up over here, I need something taken done over here. But Steve doesn't have to know it. As long as you're doing it and not getting in his way, Steve's way, he won't probably won't even notice until, of course, he found out Black Widow was doing something. Be like, what the heck are you doing? So Black Widow staying true to herself as that kind of double agent, so to speak, on doing her own mission that Nick Fury sent her out on. It's because he needs all these eyes all over the place to make sure things are taken care of. And it's so funny that the same thing that he sent Black Widow to retrieve and save, so then fall into the hands of the wrong people, turns out to be the same stuff that he realizes there's something wrong with this data here. It's it's so really well interconnected with this whole thing.

SPEAKER_00 2:36:08

You know, as much as it was needed to happen, and I know it it's I'm glad it happened, obviously, for the storyline to go forward. Steve's right here in this, though. It's bullshit to have her be doing. You know, he's right to to not be to be upset about not being in the know of the mission because Steve's gonna feel if uh if it goes wrong and someone dies, he's taken on all that to himself. Regardless of who was sent to do what, he's not gonna like that. So I'm with Steve on some of this stuff. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, I get it. And and it and you know, it still needs to happen for the story to go forward. But yeah, Steve being upset about it was the dialogue's great in that. Oh. Because they're both right. Yeah. It's just why not tell them, you know? It's kind of what he's saying in a way. Yeah. I don't think Steve would have had a problem with that being part of the mission, but not knowing though, made it even it's now things can happen, you know, unexpected, out of his control. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:37:05

Yeah, I love how Steve Steve is like, um, we're a team, we're supposed to be trusting each other. And Nick Fury says, Last time I trust somebody, I lost an eye. Which is funny because it's not true. I like that he uses that. You know what I mean? I do it's so Nick Fury to use that. Yeah, I have similar feelings about how he actually lost the eye. I wish you're I get what they did with it, but part of me is like, oh well.

SPEAKER_00 2:37:32

Nah, it's cool.

SPEAKER_04 2:37:33

Yeah, that's whatever. Okay. I can but he's gonna use that as any kind of thing. But no matter what, he's gonna have he's he's gonna use it, yeah. It's sort of like one of those things where if someone's walking around with a broken arm and you're wondering like what happened type thing, and they can say anything they want to make it like, oh yeah, I saved a woman, dislocated my arm and doing it when really they just fell out of the bed the wrong way. Right. You know, it's something like, all right, just a little white lie, exaggerate a little bit, and you look impressive. That's kind of what Nick Fury does with this eye all the time. It's I trusted someone I lost an eye. Last time this I lost an eye, all that stuff. Be like, really? Cat scratch fever.

SPEAKER_00 2:38:11

Anyways, is this the does the elevator scene happen in this this early on? Um no, it's next. It's the next one. Yeah, let's talk about that then. Well you what do you got for a score for this?

SPEAKER_04 2:38:23

I'm giving it a 10 out of 10.

SPEAKER_00 2:38:25

Wow, 10 out of 10. I'm telling you guys. Yeah, I'm gonna give this opening a 10 out of 10 as well.

SPEAKER_04 2:38:30

Yep. Yep. Yep. This is like I said, this is gonna be very hard for me to negatively critique this movie just because of how well done it was. And it reminded me why I went to the theater seven times to see this. Yeah, I saw the seven times in the theaters. I probably helped them rake in half a million for this movie. So it should have gotten a lot more money in the Global Box office, to be honest. Anyways, uh, but all right, I'll read uh act two then. Yep. So act two, guys, now fugitives, Steve and Natasha search for the truth while evading both shield forces and deadly assassin known as the Winter Soldier. Steve soon learns that Hydra has secretly infiltrated the organization for decades, turning the world's top security agency into a weapon. They uncover hidden files revealing Hydra's digital mastermind, Arnon Zola, and the scope of the conspiracy. During battles with the Winter Soldier, Steve discovers a shocking truth. The masked assassin is Bucky Barnes, his best friend from World War II, brainwashed and weaponized by Hydra. Steve refuses to give up on Bucky, creating a deep personal conflict as they race the stopped Project Insight before millions can be targeted and killed. Man, oh man. Oh credit to um Steve McPheely and I'm sorry, your name is evadeing me at the top of my brain, but the the two writers of this movie for putting this all together with the Russo brothers. This is what a you know, sometimes the middle of the movies tends to lag a little bit for in majority speaking, for any genre of type of movie. You know, it's kind of like when you're watching a TV show, you have an epic beginning and you're supposed to have an epic conclusion. Everything in the middle is just a sandwich, it could be a little sloppy here and there, and it could be forgiven later on. This movie, it delivers every single act. Like act two, yeah. The stuff that they put in this act, the further it's the first one.

SPEAKER_00 2:40:37

The stuff with the winter soldier in this is just oh yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:40:40

Well, even the personal stuff for Steve and Natasha in this act and in particular, man, it's just oh it's heavy. It is heavy.

SPEAKER_00 2:40:49

What worked for you? Well, do we want to let's do a disclaimer quick. I don't have any let me say what didn't work first. Oh, okay. I'll just do it. Because it's just because it's very short. Okay. Um the only thing this movie has for me that's a problem right now is the humor in this movie. There's the I I could tell there was trouble with the balance. For uh, you know, and I and I gotta pick nits here because it's not bad, but I will I will say this. This is what I will say, unfortunately. And and this is I this ain't gonna make your jaw drop. My hot take's gonna make your jaw drop. This ain't gonna make your jaw drop. Oh boy. Um There's times when a joke happens in this movie, especially in the mid part of this, where I don't laugh.

SPEAKER_02 2:41:47

And it just caught and I'm I'm like, huh.

SPEAKER_04 2:41:52

That was meant to be funny, and it wasn't. I'm I'm just genuinely curious. Um, do you have one on the top of your head?

SPEAKER_00 2:41:58

Yeah, uh Scarlet Trahanza is not as funny as she thinks she is. A lot of the jokes she has um are just I'm not saying they're in bad taste, and I'm not saying that they shouldn't have said them, and it it certainly doesn't hurt the movie, but it it just doesn't. I'm like, okay. You know? This this is definitely the least funniest of the Marvel movies yet. I think that's obvious. But that I don't think that that's bad though, either. But I will say it could have used a little more sophisticated humor here. Um, because it is if this is doing anything in the second act, by the end of the second act, part of me hit sat back and went, Whew, okay, I feel like I'm sweating watching this movie. And and you know, that can be a good and a bad thing. So I don't want you to take this as the criticism as this is hurting this movie, but I will say though, it did feel exhausting. Where man, this movie actually could have used a few minutes of slow it down a tad. Believe it or not, I think. Um with that said, everything we got's great, though. Like I can't like if the movie makes you feel, it makes you feel, you know? Um and this movie is making me feel because I'm it makes you want to have that anxiety, it makes you want to have that exhausted feeling, then you got it, guys. You did what you're supposed to do. So it's it's a it's a it works and it doesn't work at the same time, okay. I I could have used just a little bit of a okay, wow, you know, and and the moments that could have done that with given me that levity, could have been some of the comedy that kind of ricocheted off of me coming from her. She's great as this character, she's just not funny. And that that's my only issue with with uh with this part of the movie and with her in general in the movie. Because other than that, it's perfect. She's perfect. Like, and I'm not saying she should be replaced. There's no fix to it. That's just my own taste. Because she what she says could make other people laugh. Probably made you laugh. But me, it was just it bounced straight off. Okay, she her delivery felt okay. Scarlett, I love you. You're great. You're not as funny though, I think, as your timing's not there. Someone's gonna work with you. You need to work with more comedians or something. Because I think you're a great actress and you can do that stuff, but it just did in this, it just felt it fell flat for me a couple times where it shouldn't have. Now there's one particular one time that it doesn't, and that's when they're in the car and she says to him, So is it the first time you've kissed since you're young? I and I got chuckling there, but mostly it was his response that that made me laugh. You know, just how he was like, Oh, that's not the first time. Well, it actually probably was, right? Because like he's you know, because he's Steve, he's not that guy. So yeah, I I definitely uh Yeah. And what doesn't work for me is I'm glad they don't go the distance in the movie, but the too many times do they want us to think that there's something brewing between the two of them. And I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, I don't like this. I don't want that to be there. I don't want these two characters uh to be shipped. I don't. Um why I say that is because it would have felt that would have made it generic. That'd have been like, duh, you know? And be and the fact that they didn't go all the way with it, and it was just that because I have a feeling I exactly know how she feels about him at the end of the movie. And it's not, I think, what a lot of people think. Because a lot of people think, oh, there's something there is chemistry. No, I don't think there is. I think she finds a certain level of respect in him because she's not met a lot of people in her life that's genuine. You gotta say this person, the only other one she knows that she can trust a lot would be Hawkeye. You know, and that might be the one big glaring thing in this movie. I don't understand is why she never calls him to say we could use your help bugs me a little as well. If there's one character I'd add to this movie, it'd be Hawkeye. But then I think to myself, do we need him? No. But in this scenario, when you feel like you're this backed against the wall, three against a what who knows how many people, you're not calling your buddy Barton. You know, that bugs me a little. That that makes me go, uh if I had the nitpick, sure, I get not calling anybody else. Don't call Tony, sure, whatever. They're not part of this. We can explain them guys not being in it. But she's not calling up Clint saying, or that's not the first person she thought of when they needed a place to hide. Not that Sam Wilson wasn't a good choice, but was Clint not part of your thought process? Like, I don't know. I just I just it that felt to me why couldn't he have been in this movie too? I think it would have actually been alright. At least at the end, as part of the fighting, you know, as part of a a scenario where it's I don't know, but the I don't want to change the movie though, because this movie's great. So it's one of those things where I can't ignore the fact that why is he not there out of everybody, why is he not there with her? I don't know. But yet putting him there would make this movie too much, I think. So it's like a it's like a it's it's something that's a glaring, like, this makes no sense, but it's okay because it's amazing. So I'm like, ah, you know, that's how I feel about that. So that's what doesn't work for me, and it just gets more prevalent as the story goes on, especially when they're on the run. Like when it gets to where they're fugitives and it's scary, and this this winter soldier guy's freaky guy, man. Like he's scary. You could use Hawkeye, you know. Like, why doesn't she get a hold of him? He's supposed to be, as we move on in the MCU, you find out that she he's the ride or die. You know, it's not Steve and her with the soul stone, it's Clint and her. You know, it's like she not once was like, Oh, I can call up Hawkeye. We're best, we're we work the same job. Where what what's he on vacation? Like, what's going on? Clint's taking more vacations with these guys. Of course, he's just a guy. So I don't know. That's what doesn't work. And I wanted to get out of the way because what works is pretty much everything else is fine. But I do struggle with that. I I go back and forth with this idea of why aren't you including this character? Really, it really kind of bugs me that he's not there, that I'm okay with not bringing everyone else in. I like I said, I just when you're pushed against the wall to this point, and you're thinking, especially when you're starting, when you get to the third act, and you want to like do this retaliative response, I can see not including Clint right up until that third act, but once you need we're gonna go fight an army of we don't know how many, wouldn't that one more guy make be like, yeah, we can get one more guy at least? I don't know, it's kind of how I feel about that.

SPEAKER_02 2:49:34

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 2:49:34

Because he's just not talked about, it's just nothing. It's like the character doesn't exist. You just have one line. You know, well Barton's safe because he's off somewhere and on deep cover. Okay, then then you wouldn't be hearing me say this at all. But where is he? Because he's worked works for the same people she does. So I don't know. Go ahead, Sam. I want I I that was my only negative I had so far.

SPEAKER_04 2:50:01

Well, maybe maybe my two cents on that could help soften that a little bit for you. I hope. So this is this is what I'll say when it comes to the Hawkeye thing. Because I did this, did it it entered my brain one of the times when I was watching it because I really was trying to find critiques for this movie. And I'm thinking about okay, broader MCU thing. This is the one movie I will say that really, in my opinion, blended in well with a post-Avengers type world for a solo film. You blended in Shield, Black Widow, Nick Fury into a Captain America story and continued his story. So that part was covered for me. That wasn't like the glaring problem that I had with Iron Man 3. And uh Sword of Dark World, you didn't have to worry about that because it literally was off-world for most of this whole film. For this one, you couldn't do that, and so yes, you incorporated them and you made it part of the story in the plot point. Love it. So I won't fault them for saying that this didn't have that. But what I'll say about the Hawkeye thing is a couple a couple of things that stuck out to me as you were talking. One, this is so fast-paced of everything happening. This is within a 24-hour period that they're running and hiding and trying to find a place to stay and get away from SHIELD.

SPEAKER_00 2:51:18

I think it's and two, she couldn't call him while they're sitting at Sam's house eating breakfast. No point all that night, they couldn't call him.

SPEAKER_04 2:51:26

They couldn't call. This is the top of the top when it comes to secret organizations, and they got they have enemies. Think about it from the first Avengers movie when she's doing her whole thing and Colson's like, we already have people on you, you could just leave. They already know some of the stuff. The moment she plugged in that hard drive, she knew they had exactly like 19 minutes or nine minutes or something, and they're gonna be right there. So a quick phone call of trans triangulated their location to say, Oh, we know that she's contacting Clint. And another thing, Clint was an agent of SHIELD. Yeah, they they already have information on him. Don't they don't you think that they would know that that's probably the first person she would contact? She literally can't contact him because another thing, Nick Fury set up a family for him. He's probably not doing a mission, he's probably at home with his family, being a husband and a dad, the way that Nick Fury set up that little thing, and she knew about that already when we found out on Age of Ultron, two movies later. So, of course, she's not gonna jeopardize his family by putting him in the midst of a Hydra situation that she doesn't even fully comprehend.

SPEAKER_00 2:52:38

I don't know. You haven't told me. I haven't told you. You know why? You're trying real hard. Oh my god. Here's my argument, okay? So you can't get a hold. I just I don't believe that they don't have a way of getting a hold of each other when something like this could happen. Maybe Morris code, but the and the world is ending up. Some little MacGuffin of like, I push this little page or thing or bullshit. And you're telling me the safest place that these guys could go hide is gonna be Sam Wilson's little apartment. Exactly. No, I'm sorry. Yeah, and then they do this whole they do this whole mission of getting his wings and stuff that we don't even see. It's off screen. Now that's one thing I would have loved to see. Which I would have liked to see. It doesn't take away from the movie. No, but it would have been a unique situation, right? I'm just saying, jeopardizing or not, at this point, even would I would even think that they would neutralize Clint then, not just look into him and wonder if she would go to him, but wouldn't there be some sort of there could have been, well, we're gonna reach out to Clint and say, oh, he's probably been neutralized by now, or something in the sense of like, I don't believe that he just goes home off the clock, sits at his family, and oh, just for the sake of we're not gonna put your family in danger, his family is in danger already. Like, you're gonna get a hold of him and say, if we don't stop them, they're all gonna die. So it's like, oh, I'm there then, and he'd be there. I don't, I don't believe that these two don't have a way of getting a hold of each other if if things went down where they had to be under under this is what they do best. Them and Nick Fury are the best at it. They know what they're doing. I do not I gotcha, you're right. Okay, the phone's your butt, whatever. But don't tell me there's not one way that she can't get a hold of that guy. And to put his family in danger, they're in danger in this whole situation.

SPEAKER_04 2:54:38

Well, to that point, how about this? What if they did bring him along in the third act? I know. Then they have something against him that will make him not want to fight them because they would actually have his kids and family. Maybe she had nothing to lose, Steve had nothing to lose.

SPEAKER_00 2:54:52

Yeah, but see, now we're getting Sam had nothing to lose. Now we're getting into the what if territory, though, right? And like because he's not there. But that's why it doesn't make sense to add him in there. No, that it would make sense. You wouldn't want, you're telling me the three of us, Sam Wilson or Captain America, I'll be Sam, Captain America, Sam Wilson, and here we are. We're looking at, we don't know how many of these people are hydra. They literally say over the he says in his little speech, yeah, anybody could be hydra. Anyone, yeah, yeah, and it's like, you know, we could use a guy that doesn't miss anything. You know what I'm saying? Like, no, he's gotta read read to his kids before they go to bed. I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_04 2:55:34

Like, who is best equipped to protect his family but himself? So if he leaves to help them, great, he's helping them. Now his family is left vulnerable. But that would GLP.

SPEAKER_00 2:55:44

That would insinuate that she would have had to get a hold of him to protect his family, which means she can get a hold of him without them knowing. So you're already in a big circle right there. He would come, he would come fight.

SPEAKER_03 2:55:54

Okay, so maybe she knew how to get a hold of him. That would be his way of protecting their family.

SPEAKER_00 2:56:00

Decided not to. They decided not to for sure. Why? I don't understand. I don't understand it. You're you're doing good. You're doing good. It's just, I just I cannot think of a logical reason to not why put Sam in that kind of danger. Oh, he volunteered for that stuff.

SPEAKER_03 2:56:14

They had to show up at his door though. They show up at his door to stay there.

SPEAKER_00 2:56:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:56:18

But yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:56:22

They don't really know him. Well, yeah, she doesn't running next to him for a couple days and then seeing him. And they laugh. Okay, yeah. He's in the This is why Hydra infiltrates everything because they give you a handshake, they give you a hug, and they say we're your friend. Steve, you're part of the problem. You see, that's it's like he knows enough to know that this guy is not involved in anything. Obviously, he's right, and that's what's great, right? But he doesn't know. They could have walked in, he could have been, oh, by the way, bam, bam, we're done. End of the movie. Like, no, it's it just doesn't. They needed one line, is all they needed to do was let's what's what we need to get a hold of Clint. And all she'd have to say is, I don't even know where he is right now. Because he's out doing something, you know? Or he could have been that thing that shows up at the end as a one last second of, oh, look, he was behind the scenes doing this or whatever. I don't, it could have been and Nick Fury could have said he's gone doing something. That's something it just makes me think you're not gonna get a hold of him at all. Like it's it'd be one thing if he wasn't already their teammate. If you're talking about we're putting together all the people in this world, in this little Captain America's world, which is working for SHIELD and doing these missions, he's part of that already. If he wasn't, and he was just some guy that was good with his arrow and he's out somewhere, then that I'd be like, okay, whatever. We don't need because you can call Tony too, right? You're telling me all the technology Tony's got that they don't want a way to get hold of Tony, you know what I mean? Like, but they're not gonna, right? And that's cool. And we can ignore that because we want this to be Captain's movie, and it's happening real quick, you know, and then all that kind of crap, whatever. Still an argument to say you could call Tony, right? I'm just saying. So, but out of all of them, Clint's the one that you'd call, like that she would, they're in the corner. I'd be calling him, but hey, by the way, you know, hide your wife and kids in that place that you're gonna put them when there's because you know he's ready for this kind of stuff. You know he's just he's not like you just stay on the farm. Yeah, like no, if he thinks they're gonna die, they're gonna go somewhere. There's this there, he's got it all set. You know it, you just know that. You know, that there's no debating that they're those kind of people. You probably get a hold of him, SOS, whatever the little reading thing is on a little page or whatever, and he'd be like this, and they go under the floor in the barn in some bunker or some shit, and he'd be on his way and they'd be kicking some ass at the end of the movie. That just makes more sense to me. It does not ruin this movie, though, folks. Don't get me wrong. I'm just saying it's the only thing for me that I'm just like, oh man, my spidey senses are like, why is Clint not here? Like, where is he? You know, but I'm with you, I get you. I will I'll give you this is what I'll say. You bring up some good points, all of them are very valid. So, with that said, obviously Clint and her aren't as close as we thought they were. Maybe Budapest wasn't that big a deal to her, but they never do get a hold of him. So it bugs me. You almost got me sold. You almost got me sold. But I I'm I'm gonna stick with it. I'm gonna stick with the fact that it that it kind of it just irks me a tad, so. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 2:59:32

Yeah. Well, when uh maybe I'll read this to you right now since we're on it, because I was curious if he was supposed to even be in the movie or not. Oh wow, that maybe there is, yeah, there could be a lot of So let's get this, folks. I asked the internet's Ooh, the webs. Was Jeremy Renner's Hawkeye supposed to be in Captain America Winner's Soldier? Yes. Oh Jeremy Renners Hawkeye was originally intended to be in Captain America the Winner's Soldier, but he was cut due to scheduling conflicts with the actor. Directors Anthony and Joe Russo planned a specific heartbreaking action sequence that would have complicated the relationship between Steve Rogers and his SHIELD allies. In the deleted storyline, Hawkeye would have been tasked by SHIELD to hunt down Captain America after Cap was labeled a fugitive. Oh, I'm glad they didn't do that. During their confrontation, the two Avengers would have fought, but Hawkeye was actually going to use the opportunity to secretly pass inside information to Cap, ultimately throwing the fight and letting him go. Because of Renner's busy filming schedule, though, they were unable to get him on set, so the screenwriters had to remove him from the script. So it was intended then. It was intended.

SPEAKER_00 3:00:43

So I'll give him a pass. But unless you said it did good even without him. It did it does. It does. But that would have been a cool scene. Just one scene of him. You know. I guess.

SPEAKER_04 3:00:59

I'll let it pass. Okay. All right. All right. That's okay. I just found that out too, guys, because part of me was thinking, you know, if Ike's thinking this, I wonder if they thought of this too. Because obviously, for the rest of this movie, they thought of everything. Oh, yeah, they covered everything real good.

SPEAKER_00 3:01:12

Like, like, I mean, it's they really it's tough to come up with a problem with this movie. And like I said, this isn't really a problem, but it's it's just one of those things. Something that sticks out to you. It sticks out because, like, in like like you saw, like we talk in a lot of other things. You're like, where the hell's Spider-Man and half the crap that goes on in New York City. I gotta tell you, someone's gotta sit down with Peter and say, listen, there's more than three blocks of New York City, because it seems like uh you don't pay attention anywhere else but your house. Get your head out of your phone watching MJ's Instagram and starting. There's dudes literally killing people in a building down the street, and you're just you're not doing anything about it. Like it's like I mean, you got a mayor that's smashing people into walls, yeah, and you're just you're over here, you know, my girlfriend, you know what I mean? Like, so it's not wrong. So, I mean, that's just the feel I get out of that little bit of like, I I can I can suspend my disbelief on a lot of times where a character doesn't get called in when you probably could have, could have used this guy and it would have been easy just to get him. This time, it just it was kind of like one that stuck out to me. And it was on the second watch when I actually actually the first time I watched it, guys didn't even think about it. But on the second watch, I was like, wait a minute, when the hell's a hawk guy? But you know what? I'm glad at least to know that there was a plan that it they didn't just okay, we're not gonna have him in there at all. Um, in the scheduling thing, it's too bad, you know, because I think it could have still fit. I think it still could have worked. And it may have been the one thing that put this movie up that notch for me. But but that's it. I mean, that's other than that, the stuff that works in this. I mean, this elevator fight scene is the coolest thing in the world, you know what I mean? Like, it's uh Frank Grillo as this guy too. I like this character. He's like the main thug of the of the guys. He he becomes crossbones, right, in Civil War. Oh, yeah. I love him in this. He's such a badass. I'll talk about him in the act three a little more than but with this, but he is so cool. Yeah. I like the references they do. Um uh I do what the stuff that is working for me is definitely like the idea of uh uh tying it into the first movie with that little creepy scientist guy that we think needs to punch the face. Like he definitely I like tying that into him and how he's he's doing this whole AI thing in the basement of that place, and they're talking about he pretty much tells him from the start this has been something that's been going on for a while. And part of me when I'm watching a movie, I kind of forgot. I was like, why is he kind of spilling everything to him? That goes, Oh yeah, it's because he's planning on killing him right now. So it's like it's it they thought of every little thing they did. Yeah, because it would have made no sense for the villain to just be like, This is what the plan is, but they're on their way to bomb him and then at the same time. Like they anticipated this to happen, and I I I like that they did that a lot. It works real well for me. And of course, you know, with this is also when you find out that Robert Redford's character is bad. You know.

SPEAKER_04 3:04:22

Yeah, oh yeah, that's right. This that isn't in this act.

SPEAKER_02 3:04:25

That is that is something. Um Yeah, that for me, well, what worked for me.

SPEAKER_04 3:04:35

This is almost everything basically, guys, worked for me in this in this whole act. I I love the chemistry between Chris Evans and Scarlett Johansson. They have done films together in the past. The Nanny Diaries comes to mind, and there's a couple other ones I know they've done stuff in the past, and like they're they're genuinely friends outside the MC. Yeah, they knew each other when they were younger too, right? Yes, they did. They did. Yeah, and you can tell that they could play off each other's energy really well. I I love that about that. Them, and I think that that was a great choice of putting tag teaming those two for this film, and it was that was really cool. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. I I did on I know you weren't too much of a fan of like her uh funny moments and things like that, but for me, they did land for me. Yeah, so the couple of the things that that she was saying, like the I I like the one you said about the car. That was funny. I like the kiss just to get them uh inconspicuous in the mall, be like, and she was exactly right when she said it, and she said it so fast, and then she kissed him. And it was just funny when she's like, Did you feel anything? He's like, That's not exactly what I felt. It was just funny, you know, the the funny commentary they had back and forth there. Um, she she uses her greatest asset again, her sex appeal, and it works so well. Yep. Um, for the character. Um, but anyways, um, yeah, the the Artemzola thing actually being alive, so quote unquote unquote, he's not AI in the sense that we would think of AI, like when it came to Ultron and Jarvis and some of these other things. But it's actually smart they didn't do it in that way. They did it in this way to keep him hidden in an old military base that's run down now and things like that. And then he's he's it's kind of like if you think about it where what we used to have, everything now is Bluetooth connected. But um, just a decade ago, we had things where we had to plug an auxiliary cord into our car to play the music and you know, plug that into our headphones and things like that, into our MP3 players. That's how old we are, guys. Um, yeah, and things like that. So I love that they tapped into that here where the only way to keep him online, yeah, offline was this way. And it works so well.

SPEAKER_00 3:06:57

Yeah, uh yeah, 100%.

SPEAKER_04 3:06:59

So good. And I, you know, sometimes that could be a little corny when you're doing a villain like this, a little surprise right here, and especially with the um, you know, was it that they what's that terminology where they're the exposition where they're explaining everything? Yes, yep. Sometimes you're like, oh, that's a typical villain thing. Why are they saying everything before, you know, all that stuff? And the they're using it as a whole ploy, like you said, to keep them there so they get killed from like uh bogey coming right on in and be like, oh my gosh, it's so that's just so brilliantly written and done, and such fast of a pace, too. And then what's also cool about that is when it does hit Ardom Zolo's gone now, too. Yeah, he is, he's gone. Like he self-sacrificed the rest of his mind so they would die. And that is that's a killer bad guy move, right there. Yeah, that's pretty hardcore. That's uh yeah, that's some Nazi stuff. That is some Nazi stuff. That's some Nazi stuff for sure. Yeah, and that is some I dare I.

SPEAKER_00 3:08:04

They're lucky they survived that too.

SPEAKER_04 3:08:06

Yeah, that is that is something that yeah, they are lucky they survived again with his amazing shield. That's how they survive.

SPEAKER_00 3:08:12

The shield's the best.

SPEAKER_04 3:08:13

Oh, vibranium, man. Anyways, um, yeah, so that I I loved every bit of this.

SPEAKER_00 3:08:22

Um then we also find out that uh Nick Fury's still alive.

SPEAKER_04 3:08:28

Well, not only that, but right before that happens, actually. One thing, but before you get to it, because I completely forgot that it's in this act that they have how they how's uh the events go? They go to Sam's place right after this, right after they um uh the Aronzola thing. Yeah, and then he tags along with them and they go to interrogate that one guy, right? Yes, yes. They find the guy that that senator that I wanted to punch in that one in the Iron Man 2, I believe. That one that has such a punch of a face, guys, and then he whispers in Agent Sitwell's ear, Hail Hydra.

SPEAKER_03 3:09:12

Be like, oh, it's all connected, even the politicians are in on it, like this whole thing, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 3:09:17

Oh, it's so that and that whole interrogation scene.

SPEAKER_00 3:09:21

Yeah, they they bring you notice the names he brings up, yes, targets, Stephen Strange and Bruce Banner. Yep, isn't it crazy? That I'm like, wow, that's kind of cool.

SPEAKER_04 3:09:30

Yeah, and to think that that was 2014 and Stephen Strange didn't get his movie until like 2017. Yeah, it's wild. Like, holy smokes, like this is before they had that plan. They didn't have Benedict Cumber that signed anything yet. They were just like, We're doing it, or at least acknowledging he's in the universe. That was so cool. That that I love that part where he's um they're interrogating him, and it looks like Steve's gonna throw him off, and he's like, No, you're not that type of guy. And he's like, You're right. And he he cleans him off a little bit, and he's like, But she is, and she how she kicks him. Oh my gosh. Oh my goodness, okay. Yeah, you should you should slow motion that because it's a full-on foot right there, like it's like wow, with all her might. And she's a small thing, but that's that's pretty impressive. And I love her commentary after that. What about that nurse? Or no, what not the nurse? It was what about that this other person? Then he says, Um, because she's trying to set him up this whole movie device on a date. It's really cool, like that buddy type brother-sister almost relationship. There is cool, yep. But um she says, uh when he says, You mean the woman with the nose piercing? She says, Yeah, and he says, Yeah, I'm not ready for that. Yeah, but yeah, yeah, it's a hot dog. He is not ready for that. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. And then you get Falcon's amazing entrance for the first time with the wings and all that.

SPEAKER_02 3:10:53

That was cool.

SPEAKER_04 3:10:54

That was so good. Yeah, and even this line right here when they meet Falcon at the at his house and all that stuff, and um Steve says we need a place to stay. I love Natasha's line where she's like, Everyone we know is trying to kill us. Yeah, they look the way they do. Anyway, so her her humor does hit with me, at least for that movie. Uh, I guess it's the way it's delivered and things, things like that. And I will admit that she does have more of a default face for most of the stuff that she does. It's not as an expressive face. I don't know if that's just her style, her acting, just her herself type thing. So I I get where there could be some disconnect when she's trying to be humorous and she doesn't look like she's humorous.

SPEAKER_00 3:11:36

Uh yeah, sometimes it just doesn't feel natural and when when Chris makes it feel natural. So yeah, the joke lands when he's involved. Yeah. And he's involved in most of them, which makes it work. But when it's just her saying it, it it it just kind of it's not so natural, you know. But like I said, that's nothing compared to not calling Clint.

unknown 3:11:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:11:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 3:11:57

Yeah. And so now let's get into the point that you were you were um oh Nick Fury is still alive. Yeah, or did we miss something still in the middle of that? We did. Yeah, because after they get sitwell. Well, we got we can talk about him revealing that it's Bucky. Yeah, yes. Well, after they get sitwill and they're driving. What an epic death of Sitwill. Winter Soldier jumps on top of the car, pulls the the um, if I remember right, does he pull sitwill through the window and breaks the door open or breaks the door open and then pulls him out?

SPEAKER_00 3:12:36

I think he pulls him through the window.

SPEAKER_04 3:12:37

I think he does that and the door goes with him. Yeah, he's dead, guys. Oh, yeah, yeah. When when he throws him, I think he hits a semi or something on the other side. He another vehicle, he's gone. Yeah, yeah. What? Wow.

SPEAKER_00 3:12:51

Yeah, wow is right.

SPEAKER_03 3:12:52

That's like that's a whole other level. Like, holy smokes, this guy is wow.

SPEAKER_04 3:12:58

And that that whole thing. And this is where I'm gonna say is the only part that I would say I would have a critique on. Oh is during this. This is and it's the only time, honestly, throughout the whole film, I would say. When Steve jumps down and he's in the bus. Yeah, and they're all firing at him, and the bullets are going through the bus, there's no way his legs did not get hit. Yeah. When he's the shield, I get it, it's protecting his face, the shield, all that's magic, whatever. But when how many bullets they put through that thing and he still walks out of the bus like there's nothing wrong, that's the only time I thought, wait a minute, where's the hole? There's gotta be some sort of hole somewhere on his ankle or on his foot or something, but it's okay because his skin's not indestructible. Right, you can pierce it, he just has super strength. He doesn't have like Luke Cage indestructible skin.

SPEAKER_00 3:13:57

Right. So Yeah, this is where the suspension of disbelief you have to kind of just go with I I I put I give a pass to it because it we can't kill Captain America that way if you're gonna kill him, you know. And in that it's like but they do everything else henchmen in these movies can't shoot worth of shit, Sammy. That's very none of them can. Yeah, I mean it's a Star Wars thing, right? Like the those all these stormtroopers and they can't hit the side of the barn. You know, and I I think that these guys shoot good. It's just we just gotta accept that they're just a little better. You know, and yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 3:14:37

I'm with you. That senator guy's face, he's on our TV screen right now. Just look at it. It is, it looks like someone already did punch him. The poor gentleman. Like, I I'm sure he's a great guy.

SPEAKER_00 3:14:48

Yeah, I'm sure he's a good person. But you know, and I'm sure that he works real hard to be the actor that he is, but he must look in the mirror and be like, man, I don't know why he don't get punched every day. Because you know, I wonder if he lives in fear that he might.

SPEAKER_03 3:15:05

Yeah, I don't see him in any other stuff. Maybe he's worried something's gonna happen. Anyways, yeah, poor guy, but yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:15:13

And this reveal of this fight with Bucky, too. Oh, and and the stuff with Black Widow. I love when she's running under the bridge and she looks up and she sees his or she looks at the ground, sees his shadow, and knows not to run right out because he's just waiting for her to come out. Like some of the smartest writing in that.

SPEAKER_04 3:15:31

Yeah, I put that as my best character moment for act two, as Natasha running for the bridge. I and I'm going to agree with you on that. So we'll keep we'll yeah, let's go ahead and just talk about the scene. Yeah, because it to me it shows her smarts too, not just that she's great with action, but that she does the phone thing. Yep. And he has like almost like the superheroing type thing where he's just honing in on her voice and he knows she's there, but really she's not there. That's really smart stuff there. But even then, as she's trying to outrun him, he still gets her. He's deadly. Yes. And I even wrote down on here, she would have died if Steve didn't jump in. Yeah. Like hands down. It was it was done.

SPEAKER_00 3:16:09

Like he beats almost he beats everybody. He Bucky is a force, man. Like when he rolls that that bomb to the phone. Oh, yeah. It's just like he just nodded and it's it's some of the my favorite action in in these MCU movies. He is badass. Like in and then when the mask comes off and Steve sees it's him. What a moment for him. Like that is that's I think it's pretty heartbreaking to be honest with you. Um but it works real well. It works real well for sure.

SPEAKER_04 3:16:44

And the that whole scene is really cool. Just how they how they um they did it and the the reveal of Bucky to Steve. Yeah. And yeah, that was so cool.

SPEAKER_00 3:16:57

But I think the only question I have about Bucky's character in this is the Winter Soldier is when they take him back to have him brainwashed again or like to like get him, you know, to re-up him or whatever, or whatever you call it, at what point is he not compliant with them? Because he's asking them, because oh that he said I knew him, or he knew me, or blah blah blah. And then you know, he obviously Robert Redford's character gives him the orders of well, just wipe him again and do start over. And he just goes right along with it. It's like there must be stages to his compliance, like it's like he's full in as the soldier, and then as he's coming out of it, he's still with them. But yep, you know, yep. Because he doesn't put up a fight at all. He's okay, I'll sit back, and then it does it, and it looks like it hurts, you know.

SPEAKER_04 3:17:42

It reminds me a little bit, and I'm this is very poor analogy. So I'm sorry, if someone comes up with something better, please write it in the comments below. But um it reminds me of something like where a toddler is questioning something, but yet they're still trusting of their parent. Yeah, whatever their parent says in. Does they're gonna still do comply with it? It just so happens that the end result is he's gonna forget all that just happened that he was just thinking about. Yeah, so he's still listening to them because they are the ones that have brainwashed him and everything. Yeah, but the moment he starts, okay, the the door isn't blown out. He just they just out the window, and he does hit a semi. Yeah, anyway. Sorry, that that scene popped up, guys. So I had to comment on it because I was questioning it earlier. But, anyways, oh, such great bucky scenes here. Winter soldier, his arm, man. That is something, yeah. He's just so cool, anyways. Um, yeah, I think that that's uh like as soon as he starts having a mind of his own and he's starting to put some pieces together, they're like, nope, we can't have it. He has to be our weapon. Yeah, and to be honest, for most of his missions as the Winter Soldier, he probably doesn't think that way. It's only because he now has encountered an actual person from his past that's that's starting to trigger stuff. Yeah, so I can see where that's not always something that happens to him all the time, but they're prepared and they do it anyways to make sure he's always like a fresh iPhone, always has a clean slate.

SPEAKER_00 3:19:11

Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. That makes sense. I like all that stuff, it works real well. It definitely works real well.

SPEAKER_04 3:19:19

Well, and so let's is this this yeah, let's now let's finally touch upon Nick Fury is still alive.

SPEAKER_00 3:19:24

Yep, Nick Fury is still alive. And I like that he brings up the Operation Paperclip to them because that's a real thing that happened in real life where they brought Nazis over to start the NASA program and stuff. And that's something that you know our government not really too proud of, but the guys the people that put the the people that put the first man on the moon used to be Nazis. And that's that's just the truth, you know. And I I wouldn't say I, you know, that we consider them heroes for it. They just were the some of the smartest around at the time. This is one thing that they had over there in Germany. Uh, we they had uh rot they had uh uh jet planes before we did. That's why they were so good in the air, and their their tanks could take out several of ours, their tanks were better. Like Germany just had like they kind of shown in the first Captain America movie, it's not far off of their technology. Obviously, that movie escalated it and turned it into something bigger, but those were things that Hitler was thinking about. Those big guns on those trains, those were real things, those are actual things that they had. Germany had a lot of crazy things going on at the time. So it's I like that they brought that up in this because it it makes you feel oh, cool, the real world's involved in this too, you know.

SPEAKER_02 3:20:34

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 3:20:35

Yeah, no, that is that is a good touch. And I I I mean, guys, I feel like that um you throughout history you will see stuff like that too. That there's always smart people in every country. Yeah, and so obviously Germany wouldn't have gotten as far as it did for World War II had it not been for some people that had intelligence back then, they didn't have the moral compass that they should have had, but at the same time, they they were doing they had smarts about them and they utilized that. So I see where we would have something in our in America. We beat you guys, but you are real, you're too smart to just die type thing. Yeah, I understand. But I don't always agree with it. But also, I love how they like you just said, they tied that into this storyline to be like, hey, we use one of these smart guys, and this is what the smart guy did. He turned a whole espionage um operation into a secret Nazi organization type thing. Like you have to remember when you have to bring these guys over here, if you're gonna do that and do that stuff, they have to be able to mentally assimilate too, not just you know, bring them over for their smarts, but also make sure they're not gonna be the one to also bring your house down and look or else you get a Captain America Winner Soldier, to be honest. Yeah, no, just 100%. Yeah, yeah. But anyways, um uh did the pacing hold up for you, Nact 2.

SPEAKER_00 3:22:01

Yep, yeah, it did. It actually could have slowed a little, and I'd have been okay with it. Like I like I said earlier. Like I think it could have even taken a little bit more of a of a but it's okay.

SPEAKER_04 3:22:12

No, I agree, and I I even wrote down here that it it held up for me too. The moments that I think they intended for you to take it slow, like with Steve and Natasha talking and little things like that. Um they didn't feel like a slow burn to me. No, because it just felt like normal pace. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah, exactly. That's the thing about this movie that I think if um, because I when I got done writing my review, I kept thinking, man, I really am having a hard time critiquing it. What are some people online saying about this and see if I agreed or not? And there some people were saying that there was a lot more talking in it than action to their taste. And I'm thinking, that is so not true. One, even if there is a lot of talking, every bit of talking is part of the whole plot point and story exposition that you need to know stuff for. There was not a slow moment where you're like, oh, they should shut up by now. You know, they you needed to hear everything they said.

SPEAKER_00 3:23:04

Yeah, one of the critiques I read online too is they said that Bucky was not as compelling as a villain. And I'm like, Did you watch the same movie? Like, oh my gosh, he is what are you talking about?

SPEAKER_04 3:23:17

He's scary, he's intimidating, he's really good.

SPEAKER_00 3:23:21

I think what's what's genius about this movie, and some of the ones that you're gonna see I feel this way about in general, is the villain is the organization.

SPEAKER_03 3:23:31

That's yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:23:32

Monkey's just a soldier of it, which is the face of how scary it can be. Which is what I like about this movie is there isn't this big bad with this twirly mustache, it's a whole group of guys that you're fighting. This whole I mean, they're fighting an ideology that has taken a hole inside he's still fighting World War II ideology, yes. Yep, like he's in modern day still fighting Hydra, you know, that's what we're looking at. Like, yeah, what is crazy? Yeah, it's so when you say Bucky's and Bucky's boring, like if you did you watch look at these fight scenes with him and Steve, the choreography, the flip of the knife.

SPEAKER_04 3:24:11

Oh my gosh, they are amazing. Anyone who thinks that any of this is boring, they need a reevaluation of their own brain. Yeah, yeah. Because this is great stuff right here. This is top-notch MCU choreography.

SPEAKER_00 3:24:23

Back to your Fast and the Furious movies.

SPEAKER_04 3:24:26

All right, all right, so um you already talked about is your best character moment the same as mine.

SPEAKER_00 3:24:32

Yeah, I love the whole set. What is your whole sequence is great. Yeah. My score with this, I'm gonna, I'm going to give it an eight out of ten. Okay. It's because the Clint Barton thing just bugs the hell out of me.

SPEAKER_04 3:24:43

Okay, all right.

SPEAKER_00 3:24:44

All right, that's cool.

SPEAKER_04 3:24:45

I'm giving it a 10 out of 10, officially. Yep. Makes sense. Okay. Uh, act three. Why don't you read act three and then we'll get right into it. All right.

SPEAKER_00 3:24:55

Steve, Natasha, and Sam Wilson, Falcon, launch a final assault on the helicarriers to stop Project Insight from activating. Natasha publicly exposes Hydra and Shield's secrets, collapsing both organizations. Steve confronts Bucky aboard a crashing helicarrier, refusing to fight him, insisting he will stay with him, stay his friend until the end. As a ship falls, Bucky rescues Steve from drowning before disappearing in the aftermath. Shield is gone. Steve and Sam begin searching for Bucky, and the MCU's political landscape is permanently changed.

SPEAKER_04 3:25:30

Hmm. You know, that's one comment that I made, um, I believe in our Captain America 3 retrospective episode is that there's only so long that they can do these movies without saying, oh, Shield could be there to help you. And so them making this radical change and choice to get rid of that safety net behind the scenes, brilliant move. Yeah, brilliant move to do that. Yeah, I agree. And how they executed it.

SPEAKER_00 3:26:01

Yeah, and I think they did that with the future movies in mind. Yeah. Because it had to be that way to do this later on. Yeah. Yeah, which we'll get to.

SPEAKER_02 3:26:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:26:09

All right. Did the ending land for you? It did. Uh it it it was very hey, unlike Thor the Dark World, I understood the mission. I understood what they had to do, I understood what the bad guys were trying to do, and it got and it was earned all the way through. Oh, yes.

SPEAKER_04 3:26:23

So yeah, yep, it it landed for me too. It was really good. It was uh I I wrote down here both, and I'm trying to remember if I was in the middle of typing and I stopped, or if that's supposed to trigger a memory. I actually think the what I was gonna write So it didn't land for you too? It did. Okay, I was gonna say No. It yes, it landed for me, but both meaning that both parts of the ending for me landed for me. Oh. The part of the Steve personal journey of finding Bucky and seeing a resolu re resolution there on he was he will have let him kill him because he's still his friend no matter what. And I love that. And then, of course, the actual ending of the whole movie and what happened with Shield and consequences moving forward and all that. That that's the what I meant by both. They both of those. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Um, best moment in act three. I mean, oh my god.

SPEAKER_03 3:27:26

Would it be easier to say your biggest issue first and then go into the best moments?

SPEAKER_00 3:27:33

Um there's one thing in act three I wish they didn't do. Excuse me, or I wish they actually did do, but they didn't do is we didn't really see a fight between uh Frank Gorillo's character and Sam Wilson. Like the fight starts and then later you see the end of the fight, and that's when Frank's character gets hurt. I would have I could have taken you could have given us three minutes of them fighting. Because Frank is a Frank, he he is a uh he's a fighter outside of the movies, but he's a UFC kind of fighter. I don't know if he've uh he's ever done it professionally, but I know he's someone that's trained with people, and I bet he has I mean I just don't know. You know, I I apologize to if Frank's not watching us either, but I apologize to him if I just don't know for sure, but I know that he is someone that he is a UFC, he's trained as a fighter, he is a fighter, he's real good at it. Um, so I I wonder if there's some on the cutting room floor scenes of him and Sam Wilson fighting that they're just like ah, it makes this a little too long at the end, and we have to cut it out, and that was the easiest to cut out because there is a there's a moment there where they go to fight and there's a couple moves, and then we cut to everything else, and then later the thing's crashing, and we we're not seeing them fight anymore. You know what I mean? That's that's the only thing is I want to see those deleted scenes. Yeah. Sorry guys, this cough is gonna go away eventually. Yeah, no, I I can see that.

SPEAKER_04 3:29:16

Um because it's hard to the the thing that I would struggle about that though, I don't know if it would I'm trying to remember in the movie how long that the fight actually would have lasted, because I think that Frank is much more trained as a character for fighting than Sam Wilson is. So I feel like that would have been not three minutes but 30 seconds of a fight, and Frank would have gotten the upper hand. I'm actually kind of surprised that they paired those two up for a fight, only because no offense to Sam, but he is the weaker of the two of them, like extremely weaker of the two of them.

SPEAKER_00 3:29:58

And yeah, but you could have seen him be in being um maybe not in the office setting. Yeah, you he could have been getting away from him, you know. There could have been a a good minute long, you know, kind of let Frank show some of his cool moves. You know what I mean? Like we could have let Sam get beat up a little bit. It'd have been all right, you know what I mean? Yeah. It just it I just I just feel like it was like a ooh, a fight, and then we don't see any of it. It was like, oh, okay, what happened? Yeah, yeah, that's the that it was that's the only thing about it that it like I said, it's that's all I got. So I don't know. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 3:30:30

It's just uh I guess if I had to have a problem with that scene, actually it would have been that of the whole act that that he I just thought we're gonna see, oh cool, see these two to pair up for a second, and then this doesn't happen. Yeah, but it's okay, it doesn't ruin anything. For me, I wouldn't have paired them up because I think the end result would have been Sam would have been killed right there. Yeah, well, or at least because Frank is a trained shield agent that is known for killing people. That's part of this whole thing with why he's with Cap's team, all those sailors on the ship and all that stuff. Sam was just in real life, you could kill him. Yeah, yeah, well that too. But like just the character-wise, and Sam, he yeah, he is a he's a veteran, he's a military veteran, but he will in in the air force. That's how he got the the special wings and all that stuff. But it's just that he doesn't strike me and even sense this this introduction of him as someone that has good hand-to-hand combat skills. Yeah, I agree with you. Maybe later on in Captain America, Brave New World, he's got some, but even then he's still kind of handicapped to his wings and his gadgets.

SPEAKER_00 3:31:39

Yep. No, I agree. I think I think it's a not a fair pairing. Yeah. But it I just would have been, you know, seeing that Gorillo is had that kind of history, you could have had a little more. And I think that I want to say this now as part of well, no, I'll say I'll save it for after we're done with the act.

SPEAKER_02 3:31:59

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 3:31:59

Because there's one thing about the action in this movie I don't like in the entire movie. And I've been kind of waiting to the end to bring it up because it's kind of encompasses all of it. So we'll just wait till we get to there. Because let's talk about this uh awesome ending, too, though.

SPEAKER_04 3:32:13

Well, what's your best moment then for act three of this whole amazing ending?

SPEAKER_00 3:32:17

So the problem with the best moment for act three is in our questionnaire afterwards, I have some of the best moments in there as well. So I'm gonna pick my mid moment because you know, because I don't want to repeat, and I want and there's so many good ones, right?

SPEAKER_02 3:32:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:32:33

So this is not this is gonna be a weird best moment because it's not really a best moment, but I like when Nick Fury shows up and you see the look on Robert Red's when Nick comes out and it's the boots and the coat and the swagger, and you got Nick just looking at him like, yeah, Mother Effer. You know what I mean? Like I'm like, this is awesome. And I like the heat the eye he pulls the eye. Yeah, and he uses that's the one to get him in, and it's like that's that's that's cool. That's yeah, that's cool, that's cool.

SPEAKER_03 3:33:04

Only Sam Jackson could deliver.

SPEAKER_00 3:33:05

Only Sam Jackson's so good. Yeah, I'm gonna use that because that's mid, you know, because the the other best moments in this, there's better moments, but there are also answers for later. So I want to save those for that.

SPEAKER_04 3:33:17

Well, I'll say my best moment for act three in particular was Black Widow disguising herself as that UN woman. Because I kept thinking the whole time, where where where is she? And then once that realization comes in, when I'm like, Oh, this British lady can fight. Look at that. Holy smokes, then that I thought she was another Black Widow.

SPEAKER_00 3:33:37

Yeah, right. When the first time I saw that could be like, this is she's like an undercover person, and like, oh, it's just her. It's oh then it's her.

SPEAKER_04 3:33:44

But then when she I love how she effortlessly pulls this sheet this face thing off. I'm like, that's some cool technology right there. That's really awesome. Well that's the only time we see it in the MCU. Like, I'm glad they saved it for that moment though, because that became my my favorite moment for act three, along with I would say, Steve's speech. His speech in act three is so good. And I love Sam's comment at the end. Was that scripted? Is that off the cuff too? Like everything's like, yeah, that's a recurring joke, too.

SPEAKER_00 3:34:16

Every time he has a speech, someone has a comment of man, he's good at that. Because he just is. You're right.

SPEAKER_04 3:34:22

It's just it's so it was just a great speech. It was just really well written, really well delivered, and executed too. And I love that Maria Hill has a small role in this whole thing, but from the moment where she saves them in that um that uh tank or whatever that car, and to the moment where she's just that the woman behind the computer screens to help them do stuff. That's so good. They give her some really good scenes here. She rolls back and just shoots the guy. Yeah, she's like, got 10 minutes. So she's a badass. It's just really, really well done. If anything, not only does this movie prove that the Russo brothers can handle action, and just like what our intro said for the history behind the film, they really can level out the characters so well and handle bigger ensembles. I see why they picked them for the Avengers movies at the end there. And I love how they build them up between this one that had a good, pretty good ensemble already, and then with uh Civil War having more Avengers level people, and then all of a sudden, let's just throw in everybody. Yep, it's just really great. And Stan Lee's cameo is in this movie, this part where he notices that Steve steals his iconic World War II outfit to fight. Oh, that's so good.

SPEAKER_00 3:35:46

Yeah, it's awesome. Anyways, um in this fight with him and Bucky in the Hell Carrier there. Yeah, what a crazy fight. Steve gets shot. I forgot he gets shot. Yes, yes. Wow. Like when I watched it, I'm like, man, Steve got shot in this. Like he almost died.

SPEAKER_04 3:36:01

He does almost die. Yeah, I'm it's amazing that he was able to power through all that. Because man, that looked pretty much ooh. Bucky is just deadly.

SPEAKER_03 3:36:10

He is deadly. Really deadly. Like he's so good.

SPEAKER_00 3:36:13

Even with Sam for a minute there, it was like, man, he's gonna like don't mess with it, just grabs his wing and rips it off. Like, what do you do with a guy like this, right? Like, yeah, man. Yeah, I agree.

SPEAKER_04 3:36:24

I completely agree. Well, was the climax earned for you? Yes. Yep. Climax is earned for me too. If you had to give this act a score, what would you give it out of ten?

SPEAKER_02 3:36:40

I give it a solid nine out of ten. Okay. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 3:36:47

I am gonna go full on and give it a ten out of ten.

SPEAKER_02 3:36:50

Oh man. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 3:36:53

Alright, so post-credit scene, guys. Uh there's a mid-credit and a post-credit scene, which it's funny enough, I didn't realize it was a post-credit scene, but so I I don't think I actually saw this in the theaters. Anyways, mid-credit scene at a hydro facility, Baron Wolfgang, Von Strucker, oversees experiments using Loki Scepter. Two enhanced individuals are revealed. Pietro Maximoff, also known as Quicksilver, and Juana Maximoff, Scarlet Witch. Um, then the mid-crit the post-crat scene is in a museum exhibit about Captain America, Bucky Barnes quietly visits and studies displays about his own forgotten past beginning to reconnect with his identity. Alright, the purpose of this guy is easily set up Avengers Age of Ultron and to set up Bucky's long-term arc in the MCU, of course. How important is this to the MCU, would you say?

SPEAKER_00 3:37:51

So, um, in the retrospective, it's obviously important. So I'm gonna say it it's it's highly very important. When I first saw this though, back in the day, I didn't under I didn't I didn't put together who those characters were at that time. I was like, Well, what's that one doing? And the other one when she was doing her thing, I didn't know. It wasn't until we had a conversation about it when I was like, oh yeah, that's right. You know, it in the names, it just was like it it went over my head at the time. So if you're not comic book savvy or it doesn't hit you right away, that first credit scene is a little c confusing. Obviously, now that we know, yeah, it's big, it's a big deal. And I personally, out of the two of these though, my favorite one is the Bucky one, because it shows that he's coming back, that he's around, and that he's gonna figure this out, which in some ways he does, some ways he doesn't right when we get there. Yeah. So yeah, I think they're both important, truthfully. One's one's got a little more meaning behind it than the other, I'd say. The Bucky one's a little more of a a feels one rather than the Wanda one. Like the the the first one there is more of a here's to come kind of one. So yeah.

SPEAKER_04 3:39:05

I agree. But I give them both a 10 out of 10. Uh yeah, so in my retrospective review of them, I'm gonna give them a 10 out of 10. But I will say when I saw this in the theaters, I did not like that mid-credit scene. And I'm gonna tell you exactly why. I knew immediately that this was Wanda, that this is a Scarlet Witcher quicksover. But this is 2014. This is Fox having full control of the X-Men, and these two they called them miracles, and I know they're mutants. Yeah. This is how this is the thing that I it it took me a while to figure it out and put the pieces together on how they're able to do this. And I get it now, and it's actually nowadays you could just do a quick Google search and figure it out. But back then, I didn't have that luxury, guys. So I was just trying to figure out how the heck were they able to do this and claim good. Claim it and all that stuff. Disney could not use the word mutant because that was owned by Fox for the X for the X-Men and the mutant saga that they had going on over there. So I get it. But there is a history of Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver. They began as mutants, as children of Magneto. And then they had so much in the comics to do with the Avengers, there was a legal loophole to they can be introduced in the MCU because they can have joint custody of those characters as long as they were part of an Avengers ensemble. Sort of think about this like the Hulk. They couldn't do a solo Hawk film because Universal owned the rights of the solo Hawk film, but you could you could have him in other people's stuff, and that was completely fine.

SPEAKER_00 3:40:55

Is that how that works? Because I always thought they could do a solo hawk film, but they were always gonna be under the thumb of when they decide to release it.

SPEAKER_04 3:41:04

Now it is.

SPEAKER_00 3:41:06

Okay, so it did change.

SPEAKER_04 3:41:07

Yeah, over three years for the Hulk that has morphed and changed through deals, through and also through um expiring licenses and things like that. Eventually, guys, Universal is gonna not have any distribution rights at all if they keep this up, and then it's just gonna, by default, go back over to Disney and Marvel, because a lot of their earlier contracts, and they were sending up these places, um, you know, diversifying and they're um sending away all their characters, was that part of their contracts is they had to do stuff with them. That's why Fantastic Four, every seven years there had to be a Fantastic Four in production. Because if there wasn't, and that's why we got some crappy ones, guys. If there wasn't, Fox will have lost their rights and they weren't gonna lose their rights. Uh they probably should have, but anyways, same thing with the X-Men, same thing with Spider-Man. He has much more, like it's like 69 months, he has to have every 69 months, he has to have a movie. So we're always gonna get Spider-Man guys, whether or not it's always gonna be Tom Holland, as long as Sony wants that Spider-Man guy and that money coming from it, rest assured, you're gonna get it. But, anyways, um, for this in particular, for Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver, and please, Aaron, correct me if I'm wrong with any of these details, because it took me a long time to figure this out, and I'm just going off of my memory of this. That Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver were in so many of the Avengers comics that they had a legal loophole to say we can put them into the MCU through the Avengers, but they couldn't use mutants, so they used the word miracle instead. So for me, in my brain, and how much I like the X-Men, I only can view them as mutants. So it was weird to me that the first mutants we were going to see in the MCU are Wanda and Quicksilver. And at that time, I wasn't much of a fan of them. They're okay. I'm not saying they were bad, but I am now a super fan of Wanda Maximoff. Whereas back then, when I first saw this, I'm like, of all the characters, why are they picking them and why are they doing it this way? Almost like, you know, if if you can't do the character justice, don't do it at all, type thing. And so for me, having that st that label of miracle instead of mutant on them felt like an injustice and slap of the face to the mutant race. And then to come to find out in the comics, and this is how the this is how some of the real world stuff and the real world politics of companies actually change the landscape of the comics, they decided to, in the comics, make them not a mutant so they can have standing ground for any legal disputes of using Wanda and Quicksilver in the Avengers in the future. So if you go through a history of just take one of them, for instance, just Wanda Maximoff. She starts off as a mutant, and then um, she joins the Avengers but still is a mutant in the comics, and then in the comics, there's this high evolutionary thing where he comes and says, You're not really a mutant, you're something else. And so she's retconned in the comics to say she's no longer the daughter of Magneto. Stupid stuff, by the way. But the reason why they did it is because in the real world they could not use her as a mutant in the MCU, and they didn't want any legal trouble. So if they change it in the comics, then they can use that as an excuse if they could put her into the movies because she's no longer a mutant in the comics. It's a similar thing that happened with the Ms. Marvel character. Ms. Marvel was not supposed to be her original tent intent as an inhuman. She was supposed to be a mutant, but because the inhumans were suffering on a different end, they decided to make her into an inhuman to revitalize that part of Marvel. And it did work because Ms. Marvel, as a character, Kamala Khan, was wildly successful and popular. But fans like myself now only know her as an inhuman. So nowadays they're trying to retcon her back into her original attempts of a mutant, and that's what I don't like about it because it did really revitalize the inhumans part of things. But um they're only doing that now because Disney has the mutants' rights back. If Disney did not acquire Fox, I would not be surprised they would have kept Ms. Marvel as an inhuman. That's why we got the mutant X-Men music at the end of Ms.

SPEAKER_00 3:45:46

Marvel's.

SPEAKER_04 3:45:46

Yes. So people like me who did not like that because that's gonna be their first introduction. You I don't want to sound like a hypocrite, because on one hand, if the original intent of the character was supposed to be immune, I shouldn't be upset with it that they're gonna change her into a mutant. But on the other hand, she was so good as an inhuman and you don't have them anymore, really. They're very much extinct in the MCU landscape when you think, or not MCU in Marvel landscape, when you think of all of them, they're now at the bottom of the barrel. You need a character like Kamala Khan to keep them a little bit above water to say you have one popular one at least. Yeah. But also at the same time, now that they the Disney has absorbed Fox and they can bring the mutants now into the MCU, we finally can get that retcon of Wanda corrected again so she could become the mutant she was supposed to be in the beginning, that she actually was done in the beginning. So there is a it's it's almost like a cherry picking what you like and what you don't like. So I don't want to sound like a hypocrite, but at the same time, I'm telling you what I feel is um Yeah, it rubbed you the wrong way at the time. Exactly. Yeah. So at the time when this came out, it rubbed me the wrong way. But in the retrospective, now knowing what we get and how much of a super fan I am for Miss Wanda Maximoff, I'm giving this a 10 out of 10. Yeah, gotcha. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:47:07

Anyways, I'm glad you're no, I'm glad you explained that because some of that I didn't quite understand until you I didn't know that it was that complicated.

SPEAKER_04 3:47:15

It's oh when they when Marvel went into bankruptcy in the 90s, they decide to sell off the most expensive parts of their assets, which was the film distribution of movie rights to these characters.

SPEAKER_00 3:47:27

It made a lot this hard, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 3:47:28

It was very complicated. There is a great detailed video out there, and I would if there's a way I could link it, I will, guys, or at least reference it. I don't know on the top of my head, but they break down the history of since they went to bankruptcy, who got what, who lost the rights and where they went to back and forth, how many studios had like three different characters at the same time. It was crazy, crazy stuff. Anyways, um, moving on from here, guys. Optional our deep dives here. Your best performance in the movie. I'm gonna give it to Chris Evans.

SPEAKER_00 3:48:03

He this is this is what makes Captain America Captain America, in my opinion. This isn't the only time I'll ever give this to him, but this is the first time I will. Yeah, yeah. He's phenomenal in this part. I mean, he's great in the first movie, but it's just he just brings uh he brings something to it that's just so authentically true and and honest. He does such a good job. This this this is the first time I'm like, shit, do I like Captain America? You know, and I do. Like he's the MCU secretly made him my one of my favorite characters of all time in the MCU, just by the way they handled him. Well, they did they did him justice here. Oh my god, already, and we still got a lot more good stuff to come. Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_04 3:48:53

Yeah, so I have to say for mine, I struggled with that because I wanted to put Chris Evans down, but at the same time, in my retrospective thinking, this is probably the only time I could give this character her flowers, and I think Scarlet Johansson I'm gonna give it to her. She was my most surprising for the Avengers movie because I got to see how how she could do with the role. But this one, I did really like her.

SPEAKER_00 3:49:17

You know, it's funny you say that this would be the only time you could give it to her, too. Mm-hmm. That's that's what I mean. This isn't her best time, though. Unfortunately, the time she is her best, people are better. So it's like exactly.

SPEAKER_04 3:49:31

Yeah, it's tough. I feel bad for her for that. I'm giving it to her for this because I there's already two more movies in the top of my head that I'm gonna give it to Chris Evans later on when we get there, I'm sure. But so this one, I am gonna give it to her.

SPEAKER_00 3:49:44

But, anyways, um, most surprising performance for you. Samuel Jackson. This is probably the best Nick Fury we ever got. Amen. I'm gonna do that. We just need more of this of him. I wish, I wish Secret Invasion was this. Is this just this Nick Fury?

SPEAKER_03 3:50:01

It's this type of Nick Fury. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 3:50:03

God, I love him as Nick Fury in this. Oh like what happened? We dropped a ball on him somewhere on the line. Yeah. He is so good in this movie. So good. What a badass kid. Sam Jackson.

SPEAKER_04 3:50:15

Completely agree. It was my pick too. All right. Weakest performance, you would say.

SPEAKER_00 3:50:23

I'm gonna give it to that Emily Van Camp there who plays Sharon Carter. Um, and it's not because I thought she was bad. It's because of all the new characters we get, or someone that has kind of a obviously this is gonna be somebody and this means something. There just was nothing there. This was hard to give it to anybody, to be honest with you. Um, just there's just nothing for this character to do. So uh that's the only it's it's not I I say the weakest performance um in writing only.

SPEAKER_04 3:50:53

So I I just couldn't write anyone down. I did I was a fan of Emily Van Camp before this movie came out, too. So I knew of her and two other things before this. See, I didn't.

SPEAKER_00 3:51:04

So for me, it's an introduction to her. Yeah. And like I'm like, well, she's important, but there's not much to go off of there.

SPEAKER_02 3:51:10

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 3:51:10

You know, obviously later it's more than that. So, but right now it's where it's at.

SPEAKER_04 3:51:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:51:15

All right, so uh casting wins or misses for you. Uh the biggest win for me, I think, is Robert Redford coming in that gives a gravitas of this style of spy thriller too, because he's done some of them back in the day. And Robert's so good at like being like it's a guy that you feel like you could trust, but you really shouldn't, you know. And I I he does a real good job in this, I think.

SPEAKER_04 3:51:41

Yeah, I I put casting wins as Robert Redford and Anthony Mackey. I think that for the Falcon, he did a phenomenal job. Yep. This is great introduction.

SPEAKER_00 3:51:51

Anthony Mackey was my close second, but I had to give it to Robert though, because it's just, you know, he he really shined in this movie too.

SPEAKER_04 3:51:59

So do you have any missed opportunities or wasted potential? Hawkeye, but we already talked about it, so we can move on. I didn't have anything personally. So, all right. Uh direction and production, directing style and vision.

SPEAKER_00 3:52:12

So, this is where I'm gonna bring up one thing about this movie I don't like. First of all, the visuals, the CGI, uh the music, uh the cinematography. Phenomenal, right? The directors, great, great choice. Like they made a it was they took a chance, and these guys they proved it. Yes. So I'll give it to them there. I have more to say about them later. Um, the one thing I don't like about this movie is in the action sequences, they utilize a lot of shaky camera work. And for me, it feels too busy sometimes. It doesn't ruin the movie, it doesn't completely take a lot away, but sometimes in the fight scenes, the up-close shaky camera stuff, the cutting back and forth, like the born supremacy kind of like the born identity kind of movies-ish. I think it's something that fits in this style of film, being a spy thriller. So that's why it works for this movie. But it's something for me I've always struggled with when I watch it, because it's okay, okay. It's a lot of shake, a lot of moving, and I like things that get cleaner. And they actually do get cleaner as you get into Captain America's Civil War, it gets very much cleaner, you know. So that's that's my only gripe about the action in this is that up close cut zip boom zoom boom is great, but all the time gets a little it gets it gets a little disorienting.

SPEAKER_02 3:53:43

Um doesn't hurt this movie though, so yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 3:53:55

I put perfect for everything, top notch. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, the action quality, great, CGI, great music, really good.

SPEAKER_00 3:54:03

Yeah, MCU's doing great with their music. Ever since they got Avengers, man, they just needed that one to get them the one leg over.

SPEAKER_04 3:54:13

Alright, now we're getting on to some uh hot takes, guys. Alright.

SPEAKER_02 3:54:21

So why don't you go first? Alright, so this is the best that I could come up with, guys. Oh boy. I think Am I gonna like this? I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 3:54:32

I'm not gonna like this, am I?

SPEAKER_02 3:54:34

I think I didn't read yours.

SPEAKER_00 3:54:35

You didn't read mine?

SPEAKER_04 3:54:36

I didn't read it. Oh boy, okay. Well, this movie, in my opinion, proves that Steve Rogers has more chemistry with Natasha Romanov than with Peggy Carter.

SPEAKER_02 3:54:52

Isn't romantically? Just chemistry in general. I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 3:55:04

And I really do think it's the actors they just do so good with each other and play off each other.

SPEAKER_00 3:55:10

I as long as you're not talking romantically, because I don't like that idea between them.

SPEAKER_04 3:55:16

See, the thing in the comics is that there are there is a time in the comics where Black Widow, she she's not infertile in the comics, by the way, guys, like she is in the MCU, where she can't have kids. She can have kids in the comics, and she and Steve do have a son in the comics. There's that's even part of the I think they're called the next Avengers or something. It's James. This ironic that it sounds like that's what they're doing for Avengers Doomsday, with that he has a son that's gonna be named James after James Buchanan Barnes and all that stuff. But it's the same thing in the comics, it's just the mom's Black Widow. So I'm not saying that I'm not saying they have the chemistry like that for the romantic part. I just think that their general interactions with each other in this movie that have whether it's funny or serious, or if there is a touch of romanticism in there, it's a lot better between those two than it is between him and Peggy.

SPEAKER_00 3:56:12

See, I get no romantic stuff between them, but I do see the other part though. I see half of what you're talking about. Yeah. And I think a lot of it's because Peggy in that first movie was very just like Stonewall. You know?

SPEAKER_04 3:56:26

Yeah, she's a military woman. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:56:29

See, the idea of Peggy is what's more is what's best for him than than the actual interactions with her. You know. Um I am very happy though that they didn't go the distance with them with I'm glad they didn't cross the line of them just getting along and respecting each other into a romantic thing in this. Mainly because I love her and Bruce Banner together and that idea more so than anything, but also because it would have cliched this movie and because they didn't do it, actually made that work real well. For me to help this movie a lot. Yeah. I may have taken a point off of two points off of this movie if they had a romantic connection. I felt a sassy connection, but it to me felt more brother and sister. That's what I was gonna say. Yeah.

unknown 3:57:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:57:25

And her little kiss even on the cheek with him at the end is a she sees him out of everybody as oh, you are as innocent as it can be. Yeah. Well, you're you're not you are someone that we like I can just trust no matter what. You know, when everybody else is still kind of at arm's distance for her. But I like I actually like her and Bruce Slater, you know, without spoiling too much when he went to get to when that happens. I just I think she relates better with someone that feels as lost in the world as she is, and that's not Cap. You know, he can't help her with what her problem is. When Bruce could have. And just never did, but it it's okay, we'll get where it goes. Yeah. I don't think it ruins anything, but it'd have been nice to see that explode a little more than what they did. Um, but she needs that, you know, more in her life. That she needs someone that understands that part of life more so. And that's not Cap. Cap's got his own problems. You could say it can be kind of similar to that, but it's not because Cap, you know what I mean? Cap's too goody for her. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like they wouldn't last so long. Like, he wouldn't be able to handle her. Yeah. He's not ready for piercings. He's not ready for her. Oh, she's got problems. You know what I mean? She's got a problem. She's a whole other ball game. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 3:58:47

All right.

SPEAKER_00 3:58:48

All right. What is your hot take? I'm very hot take. It might not be a hot take, ladies and gentlemen. And Sammy, I I gotta tell you, it is just something I thought to myself when I watch this. I have a um confession to make about this movie. And the confession is, is I had only seen it once before we watched it this week. So now I've only seen this movie total of three times.

SPEAKER_02 3:59:16

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 3:59:17

And I always knew it was good. Like I never debated, we never had that problem with it. But it that's why I never revisited it though, because of oh, that was a good one. Yeah, cool, cool. And so I forgot how fun it is to watch. Okay. So my hot take though is the Russo brothers have ruined the MCU.

SPEAKER_03 3:59:35

Okay. All right. I I see where you're going with this.

SPEAKER_00 3:59:39

Yeah. Because this is the first MCU movie. Or just this is the first superhero movie. Up until now, all these movies fit into a category of superhero movies. And we've even been able to pick apart these first group of movies up through the Avengers. Even some stuff in the Avengers movie we picked apart. That in our retrospective, you could say, Man, sometimes you could get onto our podcast and hear us and say, Do these guys like these movies? They're kind of complaining about them a lot. But it's like we're just giving you the little nitpicky, nitty-gritty down details about what we're seeing, and then it's the fun part of it. That's why we like this, right? We like to dish on the stuff that's not good and love what we love. This movie is near perfect. And you take all the superhero stuff out of this. No Captain America, none of this is superhero, and you just make this about this, whatever it is, with just people, it's still a good movie. The other movies don't have that, even Avengers. This movie set a bar so high that the Russo's have set up Marvel to fail because you're not gonna get them all this good. And you're gonna get good ones, and you're and we do get good. We get the Spider-Mans, we get the ones that we were gonna get the ones we love and that are really good. But this quality, this kind of good, guys, this is top five out of 20 movies. Good. This isn't, oh, it's as good as Spider-Man No Way Home. Well, that might be top five too. I don't know. But no, that's not though, actually. When we did our when we did our list, it wasn't. This is better than The Avengers. This is better than Age of Ultron. You know, this is better than the last six movies, this is better than any of the TV shows. Like, and the only one better than this one is by the Russos.

SPEAKER_02 4:01:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:01:37

And then the only one better than these two is by the Russos. And then the only one better than that one is by the Russos. If now, if you don't know my top five, let's put it together, right? And the proof is in the pudding as we go forward. When you look at these movies, and I can watch this and I forget I'm watching an MCU movie.

unknown 4:01:59

I'm

SPEAKER_00 4:02:00

Oh my god, they ruined this. They destroyed the MCU. Like they the the they're too good for their own good. It's like so this is why we have them back. Because I mean, if anyone's gonna make it good enough to be good again, it's gonna be the guys that set the bar too high. You know, they they it's almost like it's almost like you this movie shouldn't have been this good this early on. But it guys, this movie's near perfect. Like it is like it's there. Yeah, it's one of the best. So that's my hot take, I guess. It's hard, it's it's it's a hot take that kind of travels throughout the MCU, but it starts here. It's it's just they just they really in the all and long. If you want to know why some of these other movies don't hit so well, it's because you got spoiled with shit like this. So thanks a lot, Joe and Anthony. You couldn't have just sucked a little bit, a little bit, you know, but I'm glad you didn't because this movie's amazing. But like but at the same time, you couldn't have made one fumble. So the next time you get a really bad MCU movie, so when we get Captain America, how do you do Captain America 2 like this, this good, and then we do Captain America Civil War as good as it is, which you all know how good it is, and then we get Captain America, you know, Brave New World. Holy Lord. Like it's the movie, it just was it was just screwed. First of all, it's bad anyway, but you're not living up to these movies. You know, we're not gonna see another one this good until we get to Civil War. And the next movie we're watching is good too, guys. Not this good. You know, this this almost all these movies have moments in the third act where you're like, eh, you could have done better.

SPEAKER_02 4:03:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:03:58

Not this movie. And not Civil War. Actually, Civil War gets better in the third act. Yeah. You know, yeah, she was my mom. That's all I'm gonna say. Oh my god, the movie's amazing. And we're we're we're gonna get there. I mean, it's uh yeah, it's that's so that's my hot take. It's definitely a part of me was like, oh man, they ruined this, they spoiled us with this good stuff. Great scene with her, by the way, at the end of this when she's sitting at the the uh council. Yeah, Natasha tells her. Yeah, that's yeah, good stuff. Oh, very good, very well. She's made up her mind on where she's going. And yep, very well written. Yep, she and her delivering it is the best. Because out of everyone, why is she there? You know what I mean? Like she's the one that's like the spy Reddit, you know, with all the the red ledger, but she's the one that's there. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, so great choice. How do you feel about that hot take?

SPEAKER_04 4:04:58

That's a very good hot take. Very valid hot take.

SPEAKER_00 4:05:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 4:05:01

And it's it's respectful. It's respectful. It's a positive hot take. It's this this launched the careers of the Russo brothers as we know them. Yeah, they have now reached god tier level when it comes to directing, especially an action flick. And I I can't say anything about the stuff they've done outside of the MCU because I haven't watched some of it. Most of it all. Grey Man's good. Grayman. I hear they did the electric state with Chris Pratt and Millie Bobby Brown on Netflix.

SPEAKER_00 4:05:33

I haven't had a chance to watch that yet.

SPEAKER_04 4:05:35

I started it, it's got George Cassandra in the beginning, so you'll you'll like it. Oh, cool. But, anyways, um, but for the MCU, when they touch MCU property, it is gold. It's more worth more than vibranium. It is so good. Yeah, it's it's unbelievable that what they can do with these characters. It's like they're the type of people that if Marvel and Disney, you got the mega money, you better be paying them mega money to keep them around. They are right now. Yep. Oh, anyways, all right. So those are our hot takes. Quick fire questionnaire, guys. Uh, best scene of the movie for you.

SPEAKER_00 4:06:15

How hard is this? The well this is hard. But I'm gonna pick an action scene. I like the highway fight scene. I'm gonna pick the whole thing. The whole thing.

SPEAKER_02 4:06:26

The whole thing.

SPEAKER_00 4:06:27

Um yeah. Oh uh specifically because it really highlights how deadly Bucky is. Because he had her dead to rights. You were right when you said that. Yeah. No, yeah, yeah. And that's to me, that's that's a big deal because she's a hard one to get dead to rights. And he had her gotcha. And if it wasn't for Cap, it's a woman. You know, and then the the whole reveal of him too is just amazing. So Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 4:06:49

No, I I had a hard time guys picking my I know it's I'm not supposed to overthink this, but I had a hard time thinking this is there's so many good scenes in this movie. Um I I honestly can't say it. I I want to say the whole movie.

SPEAKER_00 4:07:07

Yeah, I understand.

SPEAKER_04 4:07:08

Okay. Least best scene.

SPEAKER_00 4:07:11

I I'm forced myself to pick one, and there's one scene in the movie we could have kind of gone without, and that was the scene when they're like rezp and Bucky. But it doesn't hurt the movie, it's not a bad scene, but if that scene wasn't in the movie, I don't think it changes the movie.

SPEAKER_04 4:07:26

No, I don't think it does either. If anything, it's a fun little nod and Easter egg to what we're gonna see in the future of him, to be honest.

SPEAKER_00 4:07:32

So yeah But but it does but like I said, if I had to pick one scene, someone was like, Hey, you what are you cutting out? I'd have cut that out because it wouldn't have changed anything.

SPEAKER_04 4:07:41

Um all right, I so I didn't really have a worse scene, guys, at all. So uh best villain moment for you.

SPEAKER_00 4:07:47

Um when we first meet the winter soldier, when he looks out the front of that vehicle and he's just standing in the road and then hits that bomb and then just move the Joker crap where he moves out of the way and the car just slides by him, that is just I what a badass. Um, and if we're talking about the other villain, which is Alexander Pierce, and it's it's yours, so you can say that.

SPEAKER_04 4:08:13

Yeah, so mine, I'm gonna say, I'm gonna say this one, but as we're talking about it, I'm gonna say a second one too. But um Alexander Pierce killing his maid. Yeah. What a scene. I remember being in the movie theaters thinking, oh no, Wonder Soldier's gonna kill him now. He's uh in his dark kitchen and all that stuff. But then he starts talking to like a normal person, and I'm thinking, well, maybe this is his version of how he's a spy type thing. Whatever. It wasn't until the maid walked in and he said, Oh, Rita, I wish you I wish you had just left. I wish you didn't come back or whatever. And when he shoots her, I thought, oh no, he is the bad guy, and that is just mind-blowing. Mind blowing.

SPEAKER_00 4:08:51

Yeah, it was a great scene.

SPEAKER_04 4:08:51

The only other one I would say, as we're doing our retrospective, the uh the is a great villain moment is Arumzola keeping Cap and Natasha occupied just to kill himself. That he like a self-sacrifice to make sure that the two best agents are gone. Like that was that's a really cool move right there. I I dig. I dig. All right, most punchable face for you.

SPEAKER_00 4:09:13

I mean, it's it's Mr. Punchable that we see. It's the senator that punch that guy. Yeah, he he needs two punches, clearly. He keeps showing up. This is yeah, he needs a good one.

SPEAKER_04 4:09:23

Yeah, I did. I put that senator, but I also put uh Jasper Sitwell, that agent, because I'm like, you could have picked the right side, man. Like you knew it too that you're in the wrong side, you still did it. I would have punched him. Anyways, uh, the hard one. One prop you would have taken home.

SPEAKER_00 4:09:41

Yeah, I struggled with this one. I did read yours on this because I I I don't like to say the same ones. Um, but I will be honest with you. I think hanging up next to the elf mask would be a nice Bucky's mask would be sick.

SPEAKER_02 4:09:56

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 4:09:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 4:09:58

I can see that. Yeah. I put the shield flash drive that there, because it it's just a basic flash drive, guys, but it has the shield logo on it and it glows blue. I'm like, that's pretty cool.

SPEAKER_00 4:10:07

So maybe the only other thing are the big chips that they put in the ship. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 4:10:12

Yeah, I can see that. Yeah, yeah. I can see that though.

SPEAKER_00 4:10:15

But that would you know it's from that movie at that point? I don't know. I don't think we would, you know. Yeah. At least with the other two, you could guess it's from this movie. So yeah.

SPEAKER_04 4:10:22

All right. So most underrated moment for you. Um, I'm agreeance with you, so why don't you take it? All right. Steve with elderly Peggy, uh, kind of a realization of how much he has missed out, um, really emphasizing the man out of time type scenario that he's in, you know, that in the world that he finally gets to see her. He can't take her on the dance because she can't walk, you know, and she remembers him, but it's all it's very fleeting. Because after a nice small conversation with him, her brain resets to thinking, oh, I'm seeing him again. And it's just it's tragic. And it's it's something that it's very bittersweet, like you said earlier. It's just a very bittersweet scene. I think that people don't realize how much of that should have touched their hearts when they watch that.

SPEAKER_00 4:11:12

Yeah, and especially like you said, especially adding in that she's got mental issues going on too. Where she's having trouble with her memory and everything. Yeah, that disease made it. It's just it's it's that's a very unique and touching moment for Steve, I think. So Yeah. All right, most overrated moment for you. I don't think there's one in I don't have one either. All right, funniest moment. Um I the two I pick, I pick two because some this is is I try to always kind of be a little variety. I like the whole conversation about the kiss in the car. Well he's like, oh yeah, 70 years or whatever. But the my honestly, I chuckled out loud when she said the whole nose piercing. He goes, I'm not ready for that. Yeah, that is hilarious.

SPEAKER_04 4:11:54

That is hilarious. Just his response was just dead on. You're right. When they're giving jokes back and forth to each other, the lands more than just her. But I will say most of my favorite lines, funniest lines, are from her. I had three I had to pick from personally. Um, is when Natasha rolls up in her car in the beginning of the movie and she says, Uh, does anyone know where the Smithsonian is? I'm looking for a fossil. I'm like, Yeah, because he's 90 years old. Yeah, that's funny. And then um when she says to Sam, everyone we know is trying to kill us. It's the way her she said it and her voice and how she looked, like, oh my gosh, it was just funny. Um, and then when she's standing over the computer in um that abandoned uh facility, and she says, Shall we play a game? And then she tries to explain it to Steve. He's like, Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's pretty cool. That's I I thought that was really fun. It really showed their friendship in that one too. So, anyways, most emotional moment for you.

SPEAKER_00 4:12:56

I'm gonna tell you what, when I'm watching this movie, I actually felt a tingle, you know, when he tells Bucky that he's not gonna fight him and he's laying on the ground and he says, I'm with you till the end of the line. Yep. I'm like, oh my god, dude. I can't handle that kind of crap, man. It's that's a big deal to me. Because he was just gonna die for him right there. Yeah. And I just I that to me, it really That is the essence of him in this. So yeah, that scene's very I think that scene's very touch. There's a lot of touching moments in this movie. There's a few good ones. That one to me, though, is the one that made me go, oh man. Pooh, that hit that hit tough right in the gut. Yeah, I love that so much.

SPEAKER_04 4:13:44

So I put for my most emotional moment, which by the way, there are only three in the top of my head that I could think of in all the MCU, three very emotional moments for uh Scarlett Johansson and Santasha Romanoff, and this is one of them. Uh, when she talks to Steven, she's comes to that revel revelation that she traded the KGB Russia for Hydra, and she is like something that she she is having a hard time, no matter what she does, trying to thinking she's making the right decisions. She's never getting away from what life is handing to her and going from one bad group to another. And though she may have done good things on behalf of SHIELD, now it questions everything that she did. Did she do that mission and did it well for a good reason, or was it for hydra? She didn't know it. All the different things.

SPEAKER_00 4:14:32

Probably an awful feeling.

SPEAKER_04 4:14:33

Yeah, that that is I'm that's something. It's heartbreaking. Yeah, it is. And I think this sentiment echoes very beautifully later on when she establishes that the Avengers are her true family, and that's why it's interesting that the stance that she takes in Civil War, and I can't wait to talk about her in Civil War because they made a really creative choice of her in that, and I loved how they did it to a T, but we'll get there when we get there, guys.

SPEAKER_00 4:14:57

So can I say one thing about her real quick before you move on? One thing that stuck out that I really liked about her as well. I want to say it while we're talking about this, because I I do agree with Sammy. This is probably the only time we could have given her the best. I still had to give it to Chris. But later, when Pierce is telling her, Are you sure you want all your secrets out? And and she looks at him, she goes, Are you? Like, she's willing to do it. Like there's something about the care her character in this that they take big bounds with that. I'm just so glad that it just reminded me that I love that moment that she hates it. It's a good thing. She's just like, you're not that doesn't scare me. Should scare you.

SPEAKER_04 4:15:35

Because that's I think that's the thing that she's kind of accepted that that's part of her past and that is always gonna haunt her. Yeah, he thought he was gonna scare her to do it. If anything, she's just like, oh no, buddy. Yeah, yeah. You're the one that things were might as well just rip the band-aid off and everyone know, and then she just get on with her life type thing and figure out how to resolve it from there. But she realizes also the bigger goal is if you are exposed more than me, that's gonna be double whammy for you, you know. So nice try, guys.

SPEAKER_00 4:16:02

Kind of what yeah, it's like our argument.

SPEAKER_04 4:16:04

That's not scaring me. Yeah, that was a very good moment for her. Yeah. All right. Um, our final scores, guys. So out of two Ike, the story. Two out of two. All right, same thing for me.

SPEAKER_00 4:16:19

Characters. Two out of two.

SPEAKER_02 4:16:21

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 4:16:21

Action and visuals. This that's my that's gonna be my one out of two. Because I don't like that fast pace uh that that jump cam, but but that's uh picking nets, guys. Mm-hmm. All right, emotion and stakes. All right, that till the end of the line thing gets me. So I'm gonna I'm gonna give it at least a 1.5.

SPEAKER_04 4:16:44

Yeah, I gave it a 1.5 as well of two. Um, rewatchability and MCU impact.

SPEAKER_00 4:16:50

That's a definitely a solid two out of two. Yes. Like I could watch this movie tonight. Yeah. But I wasn't tired. Like, seriously. I might watch it tomorrow morning with a commentary. So it's yeah. What would you say is your final score? Oh, guys, so here we go. This, like I told you, this is this is sets the bar to a whole other level. This is gonna be my first out of all these movies. So I had the number my in my head already. It's so hard. And this is probably the highest score I've given anything. But I'm gonna give this movie a nine. Okay. A nine out of ten.

SPEAKER_04 4:17:32

I gave it a nine point five, guys. Yeah. This movie's near perfect, y'all. So with that, it is a nine point five is the official multiverse score dividing us down. Oh. That's wild. We are nine epis or ten episodes, but nine movies into the MCU, guys. We have what, 40 more to go?

SPEAKER_00 4:17:58

And we got our first 9.5. Yep. So here we go. I mean, it's definitely puts it in the top five. Yeah. Already.

SPEAKER_04 4:18:07

Oh, yes. Yes. This is at the moment on the list. This is number one as we're working our way down. That's big. That's huge. That's so good. That's huge. It's right above like one point above the Avengers. That's huge. It's so good. It is worth it. Yeah, you can't not give it to it. It's perfect. All right. Your final verdict, closing line. What'd you what would you say?

SPEAKER_00 4:18:32

Near perfect, not just MCU, not just superhero movie, but just near perfect action film altogether. Watch this movie, guys. If you if you haven't seen it, what's wrong with you? Oh my gosh. Yes.

SPEAKER_04 4:18:48

Yes. All right. My my final review would be this is a mostly perfect movie. Marvel found their secret sauce. So the directors, the writers, and the actors here, and the bar was set really, really high. Like obnoxiously high. So yeah. Alright. If you had to do anything different in pitcher version of this, what would it be? One thing.

SPEAKER_00 4:19:14

One line to tell me where Hawkeye is. That's all you gotta do.

SPEAKER_03 4:19:17

Okay, I can so I can see that where if you can't get him, even though you had planned him and you had written out.

SPEAKER_04 4:19:22

At least say something. At least say, oh, we couldn't do it, so let's at least mention it. I get that. I was just saying leave it perfect as is. Yep. All right. That will conclude our 10th episode of the Goodell Multiverse podcast, guys. Um Ike, what what is on for next week?

SPEAKER_00 4:19:45

Got it right here. Thank you though. So, yeah. So, guys, next week we have a little bit of a change up. Uh, we don't have any branch point breakdown for Marvel shows and movies and stuff. So it's gonna be the first time that we venture outside of uh the superhero genre in the MCU, and we're gonna have a special guest. Um, it's gonna be our mother, and we're gonna sit down and do a quick, nice little branch point breakdown, basically, which is gonna be a mini retrospective review of Shaw Shank Redemption. We we told you guys uh from the beginning that when we get to a spot where we don't have something to watch or something coming out, or if we decide there's something that we don't want to, you know, watch, if it if it is something that we don't feel is we want to cover, and we have that spot open that we're gonna fill it with something. And what we'll fill it with is movies from our childhood and from our past and things that we've watched together. And this is a special one for me. I know Sammy likes this movie as well. Um, and my mom is one of her favorite movies. Um, it was between this and Titanic we decided to go with Shawshank first, and uh we might do Titanic next, who knows? But we'll see, and we don't know when that's gonna be because we I'm I don't know, we haven't quite figured out the dates on the other stuff yet. But next week for sure, look out for that. And then our main event next week, our retrospective guys, is gonna be Guardians of the Galaxy. Yeah, it's gonna be a fun one because this is when Marvel decides to give us a run for our money and say, Are you gonna go with us or not? And boy, is it a good one? It's a good one. So we'll have a good time.

SPEAKER_04 4:21:19

Big leaps are they're being taken.

SPEAKER_00 4:21:22

And oh, you think Sammy looking forward to next week's doing something a little different?

SPEAKER_04 4:21:27

I am, I'm looking forward to I'm looking forward to the conversation with mom. Yeah, um, it it won't be as long as these type of retrospectives, guys. It'll be kind of short and sweet because uh per our mom's request, it's already long enough. So uh, but it so it'll be like a mini version of a retrospective, but it is. We're gonna highlight some of our favorite moments of the Shaw Shank movie. I'm looking forward to it. Talk about the symbolisms in there and give her a little score, yeah. Yeah, yeah, a little score for from all three of us and what we think. So that'll be fun. Uh, I know mom's looking forward to it. So that's it.

SPEAKER_00 4:22:00

Yeah, are we gonna you and I'll probably have our punchable face moments and all that. Oh, yeah. Is mom partaking in that too, or is it just gonna be us? I'm gonna give a try. Okay, cool.

SPEAKER_04 4:22:09

I'm gonna give her the same uh kind of review form that we got. Yeah, I'm minimizing it a little bit so it's not so meaty because we do a lot for the uh multiverse here, guys. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, this is uh this will be fun. Yeah, I'm looking forward to that.

SPEAKER_00 4:22:24

Yeah. So yeah. All right.

SPEAKER_04 4:22:27

All right. Well, thanks guys for joining us again. If you're just watching this as a video clip on YouTube, please check out the full episode either on YouTube or on the audio version wherever you stream. Um, please like and subscribe to our social media pages. We're on TikTok, we're on Facebook, we're on Instagram. So please go find us and like us and share our content and comment on stuff. Really help us get the algorithm going, guys. Thank you for staying with us this long. And uh please let us know your thoughts below on Captain America the Winter Soldier. What did you think? What was your scores? Do you think we scored it too high or not high enough? What do you guys think, guys? Let us know in the comments below. Thank you for tuning in, and until next time, see you at the movies.