Ep13 - Ant-Man 1 Retrospective

The Goodell Bros discuss the latest news and rumors, play some trivia, then breakdown the first Ant-Man film.

Transcript

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SPEAKER_03 0:00

On every timeline in every universe, there's one thing that we always talk about. Marvel. Hello, everybody. Welcome to the Goodell Multiverse. My name is Isaiah Goodell. I'm Sam Goodell. And we are on episode 13 of the Multiverse, Sammy, on our march to doomsday. Still can't believe we're doing this as far, man. It's Ant-Man we're at already. How wild is that? Ant-Man, holy smokes. Wow, it's been a week for this, too. Um, we got some great stuff for you guys this week. I'm not gonna lie. Uh, we're gonna go through the quick agenda in case you're new to the podcast, which, you know, pretty simple. We're gonna have our multiverse minute, okay? Uh, in that, you know, we got some coffee, some video games, some DC stuff to talk about. It'd be interesting, so come stay tuned for that. We're gonna hit our rumor mill rundown after that, guys. And we're gonna be Doom Who. We're gonna talk about some Doom stuff, and some Emily Clark has something to say about her role and the Russo's, I guess, are gonna be in the big league. So we're gonna talk about those things and what we think of those. And and today for our branch point breakdown, guys, we're trying a new thing. It's uh it's the uh Godell Multiverse Game Show. Yeah, and I'm excited because we had some homework to do and some things to get around, and I'm ready to kick some butt and take some names. I'm sure Sammy's gonna have fun with it, and I mean we're gonna have a great time. I think it's gonna be a fun one.

SPEAKER_00 1:22

We're gonna have a blast. Yeah, it's it's fun to try something new, and we've always wanted to do somewhat of a game type thing, but you know, we have our March to Doomsday, got stuff we gotta get done first. Business first, guys, then pleasure.

SPEAKER_03 1:32

Yeah, and so we'll introduce some other games. We'll try these ones, do some other ones, and the ones that end up fitting. And hopefully, if you guys comment when you see these and let us know what you liked, say, hey guys, that one try this next time or whatever. Work with it, tell us what we need to do so we know what makes it more fun because that's that's our plan. So then, guys, the main event is gonna be our Ant-Man retrospective Ant-Man 1. How exciting! Mm-hmm. Yeah, I watched it one and a half times, unfortunately. I didn't get to watch this one as much as I wanted to, but I did need to, and that's not giving any shade to the movie. It's just it was it's one of those you don't really need to watch many times to get all of it. So uh yeah, I can't wait to dive into that and talk about what we liked and like kind of a good breather after the last one, you know, and moving forward. So because we got a big one up after this one.

SPEAKER_00 2:17

Yeah, I agree. I agree. So uh putting the um branch point breakdown on hold while we do this new segment just to try it out, see how it's like let us know in the comments below, guys, when we get there what you guys think or what your hot takes are or things of that nature, or who do you think is gonna win of these two games? This will be this will be fun to try out and see what's gonna happen. I'm excited to talk about our multiverse stuff, guys. I am very excited to get to our X-Men special that we're planning on doing this weekend. So oh, you guys stay tuned for that. I don't know when that's exactly gonna drop, but it will drop in the month of June. So be prepared.

SPEAKER_03 2:52

Yeah, we are gonna be filming it here in the next day or so. Yeah. And how long it takes to get out, we don't know because we're not sure how long it's gonna be yet. It's only gonna be a retrospective. There's no news or anything on that saying. It's just gonna be a purely retrospective of X-Men One, which after taking my notes, is gonna be long anyway.

SPEAKER_00 3:07

So have a lot of fun with it. X-Men is what we got into this for. So, like, of course, it's gonna be long for both of us. So this is gonna be exciting. All right. So, do we want to hop right into the news? Yeah, let's go right to the multiverse minute. All right, here we go. Okay, guys, we are in our multiverse minute, even if it's 45 minutes, news of the week. We are excited. Uh guys, if we're sweating a little bit here, it is like 85 degrees in western New York at the moment, something like that. It's hot. So we've been used to 40.

SPEAKER_03 3:46

Yeah. All of a sudden it's 80. So it's it's like, whoa, what it kind of gave me to shock.

SPEAKER_00 3:51

Yeah. So we're gonna get right started and right rolling in here, guys. Um, so the first thing we're gonna talk about is everybody in the MCU fandom lost their minds earlier this week. Yes, they did. When the Russo brothers were posting pictures of a certain color, uh, the fan theories went wild, everyone was talking, what the heck's going on, everyone's expecting a trailer to drop, and lo and behold, it was just Lat Varia coffee. Yep. So uh we have to, of course, mention it on the podcast here and talk about what we think of the whole rollout. Was this good in your opinion, Ike? Or do you think there were some missteps here, or or do you think the fans are just overexpecting things now?

SPEAKER_03 4:33

Yeah, I got a mix of everything you just said. I think it may have been a little beneficial for the Russos or someone to kind of point out saying, hey, we got something real cool coming. You know, they and they did. They you know, they did, but they could have said with the caveat of, by the way, it's not a trailer, you know, so sorry guys, it's not gonna be a trailer, but it is something really cool. Because this this is important to somebody, you know. I I'm not it's not a big deal to me. I'll wait to buy it at Wegmans, you know, when it when it gets popular, and I'd love to get some of it just for it be a cool, you know, gift thing to have, or uh, you know, just like a little prop, you know what I mean? Like from the movies. But um, and it's I as far as I'm concerned, uh from what I understand, it's a startup, right? The coffee place as a whole, it's gonna be there all the time. Like I think it's a well, this was a pop-up.

SPEAKER_00 5:25

Yeah, I'm a pop-up. Okay. I don't and I think it's specifically in London for whatever the reason is. It's just in this little coffee shop. I don't know if it's gonna catch fire and other places are gonna get it, but I bet you does. Yeah, the Russo Brothers, they did a big rollout for it. They were there signing stuff for it, and it coincided with some sort of event or festival or thing that they're having, um, which definitely something I'm gonna touch on when we get to that part.

SPEAKER_03 5:47

But but yeah, it's like they they could have said it, but you know, they don't have to, folks. And this is the part I was gonna get at real quick, and I'll be brief on this because I don't want to spend too much time on it, but I just want to warn the Marvel fan fan base. Don't turn into Star Wars fan base. Like, don't implode on yourself. Like, just because there's news, they could have come out and told you what color his shoes were, and and it it's they're not obligated to give us anything that they don't want to give us. And frankly, as a true Marvel fan, I gotta be honest with you, I feel like less is better. I'm almost to the point where you know what, give us the teaser trailer because it's the only trailer we really are gonna get, other than those bunch we got in front of Avatar. Yeah, and then don't show me anything else. Like all of you guys out there that want all these extra trailers, and you're because you know what we're gonna get. We're gonna get a teaser trailer, we're gonna get a full trailer, we're gonna get a second trailer, then like a week before, we're gonna get a third trailer, plus there's gonna be clips. You realize how much of this movie you're gonna see in the next how many months before it comes out. Don't get so upset that they didn't give you the darn teaser now. It's coming, y'all. Like it's happening. We know it's coming, you know what's going on. We don't need to see it. You're y'all gonna they could show you nothing. You're still gonna go watch it. They could announce this movie and said, We're not gonna show you one image from it. Just come see it if you want to see it. And everybody's gonna go, actually, I would I would even contest it. More people would go watch it because that's crazy, right? So just but don't be Star Wars, guys. Like, you're going to ruin this. I wish we could hold the people to the fire that went online and want to boycott the movie. You people out there that are like, oh, don't go see this movie, bunch of trash, you're making promises they should not keep it. But you know what? I wish there was a way. I'm glad there isn't because I don't want to live in that kind of world. But part of me wishes I could make it so you can't see the movie because I'm calling your bluff. You're lying, you're gonna go see this movie. You're not mad about coffee. You just want, want, want. And if it's not gonna be what you like, you're gonna be the first ones to complain about it, too. And guys, look at the Star Wars fan base, look at the Star Wars stuff we're getting. You're eventually you're scaring these people away from making these movies, and don't do that with these guys. I'm not saying this is something that's that close, but this kind of behavior about the backlash of them announcing coffee, who cares? You should just be, yeah, whatever. Let it be. It doesn't matter, y'all. It just doesn't matter. If you if you make it a big big deal, they're eventually gonna listen and you're gonna have the same problem you got with Star Wars, where you got these great directors and great actors that just start backing out. They asked Christopher Nolan would do a Star Wars movie, he says he wouldn't touch with a 10-foot pole. You know how awesome a Christopher Nolan Star Wars movie would be? But you guys don't think so. And if you do think it would be, he's not gonna do it because no matter what they do, you're not happy about it. You know, because hot take The Last Jedi is probably the best Star Wars movie. Come at me. But so you give Ryan Johnson a lot of crap, and then you don't want him to do any more. That movie was amazing. So, anyways, we we'll have that discussion someday if we ever do Star Wars. Uh, but yeah, don't turn into that fan base because I'm not gonna, I'm I'm not upset about this. I'm okay with what we got and what we didn't get. I can wait for the trailer. I want to see it. I mean, yes, I'm excited. We'll be all over on this podcast when it happens, you know. But yeah, I tell you, it it's still coming. I'm not afraid. It's cool. We already got a leaked description from Comic Con from uh Cinemacon. So you already know what's in the trailer, guys. Just use your imagination. You're just gonna get the images to what you already know it's coming, anyways. Yeah, you didn't really get gypped out of anything. Now, the only big baller move they could have done here, which to me would have been really kind of cool, is if they got there and they did this coffee thing and they said, Oh, yeah, by the way, look at the TV behind us, and they played the trailer there. That'd have been nuts. That would have been pretty cool for me. That would have been real cool. Yeah, but that's just me saying maybe it was a missed opportunity on them their part to really surprise the world. What a crazy place to be the trailer. You want to put a lot of folks you know onto this coffee, put the trailer with it, right? Right. But they didn't have to, and then obviously not ready to, and they got a plan. It's coming. I'm not sure what it's coming with. We've got a hell of a season of movies coming out, guys. Yeah, you know, it's gonna be attached to something, it's coming eventually.

SPEAKER_00 10:00

Oh my gosh. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I echo everything that Ike said, to be honest. And guys, this it's June. This movie comes out in December. Any normal movie doesn't roll out any promotional material until minimum five months ahead of time. Minimum. So be happy you got the teaser trailers that you got during the Avatar movie, and you get the little snippets here or there when the Rizzo Brothers and the cast are talking about it. Because your normal movie, you're not getting this. They know how big this movie is. That's why they're bringing in the big guns that they got. So calm down, just take a chill pill, you know.

SPEAKER_03 10:37

It's something that's been happening in Hollywood over the last four or five years, guys. If you haven't noticed, that the time of the release of a trailer has gotten closer and closer to the date of the movie coming out. There was a time where they showed you a trailer for a movie where you're almost a year or two years out. That's usually that's what it used to be before COVID. I don't know if COVID had had a lot of impact on why they're doing it like this. It might, it might have, I don't know. But my point is, is I kind of like this setup. I like, oh, here's a trailer to a movie I didn't know was coming. By the way, it's coming out in like five months. That's awesome. Because I don't know how many times I've seen a trailer to a movie, like, wow, I can't wait to see that. Oh my God, we got to wait a year and a half and then you forget about it. And it's it then it's like, oh yeah, trailer two to something I saw months ago. You know, it's I'm actually okay with it being closer and closer, anyways. When I see a trailer to a movie coming out now today, it's actually exciting because I know it's sooner than later. Yeah. And then you know, that that makes me okay, cool. Yeah, especially Marvel, because when you get something you don't know you're gonna get and you see it, you're like, cool. And guess what? You're not waiting a year for this one. Yeah, you're you know, and but look at this, we are. I mean, they've given us a lot, a long way out, if you think about it, guys. We've got four different teasers.

SPEAKER_00 11:50

Yeah, and well, and for for Marvel, for me personally, I like how Marvel rolls out their slate. I know it's not as short as what you're talking about, Ike, but uh, I love it that they announced their whole face, and then it gives us Marvel nerds and Marvel fans talking for the next half decade on the movie that's gonna come out like six movies from now. So unless you're blade. Yeah, unless unless you're blade. It's gonna be a couple decades, but if it ever happens. But yeah, guys, so that's that's about the coffee. The only thing I'm gonna also mention, I wanted to tag out along to this coffee thing because it's in the same time period. Uh, two nights ago, they did a special presentation. The Rooster Brothers did this London thing of Infinity War, and they had Robert Downey Jr. come on out and talk and things like that. And I listened to what the video recording was of the Rooster Brothers asking Downey Jr. some questions. And I want to read one of the things that he said because it actually gave me a lot more of a positive look and optimism for what we're gonna see in Doomsday and beyond, to be honest. And I'll I'll clarify what I mean by that in a moment. But RDJ said, Well, we've been laboring so long and hard is we can't beat it. We can't stand on the shoulders of the giants of Infinity War and Endgame. So we're literally zeroing out the board, and we're going to try to earn your trust and respect all over again. And with the likes of these fellas, meaning the Russo brothers, I think we got a pretty good shot. What I want to say about that, personally, I listened to that, and for me, it was a little more profound and insightful. I think he picked his words very carefully when he said this. To me, there's a couple of things that I'm gonna pick it apart with, and maybe I'm overanalyzing it. You let me know in the comments, guys, if I'm overanalyzing it. I'm sure Ike will tell me too. But he constantly mentions the word we, so it makes me really think that he is part of this creative process for what they're doing in Doomsday and Secret Wars, enough to get him excited about it, come back and being the figurehead of the whole movie again, like he was the figurehead of the franchise for the longest time. So I it makes me optimistic that he has a lot more of a leadership role in this. But also, he kind of in saying this, gave an admission that it's not been pretty good and that we collectively were not gonna use Infinity War in Endgame. We can't stand on the shoulders of these giants. Like you can't just use Infinity War and Endgame as a reason why you're coming back, but they're tying it into the story of that to continue an even bigger epic conclusion or new beginning, so to speak. And um it's really uh it's kind of in my opinion, it's a little profound that they're recognizing it hasn't been that good. There, these guys are coming back to make it better again, and to the most important thing for us as the fans to earn our trust and respect again. That is huge because we haven't even gotten into phase four for our March to Doomsday retrospectives, guys. And that's where you're gonna get a lot of the twos out of tens coming into play. And so doing it like this and him admitting it in this fashion, it it actually makes me hopeful that they're like, we hear you, we recognize we're not the top tier that we used to be and we could be, and now we're gonna work harder to earn your trust back and maybe make phases uh seven, eight, and nine just like one, two, and three again. That's my optimism for it. I actually got me a little more hopeful to see Doomsday and what they're gonna do with this.

SPEAKER_03 15:21

So I I don't think you're wrong to read into it. I think it is hard not to read into things. Um, I tend to try not to myself because it is just people talking. But I do think that these guys are very aware. They hear what's going on online, they hear what people are saying, they're very aware that the stuff that they say means a lot to people. And there's gonna be people picking it apart way more than you did, you know. So I don't know, I don't think you're wrong at all. In fact, I'd even go a step further, and it actually makes me wonder if Robert Downey Jr. will be a part of that going forward and not just the ending of what's going on now. I mean, hey guys, he's a brilliant man, he's a great figurehead for Marvel. At the very least, his name is a producer and him being an announcer of bringing these things out would would probably go miles. He could be our main doom. Yeah, because you know, as long as we got his voice, everything else can be you know a double and a mask. Mm-hmm. You know, it's not I'm not saying it's impossible. I think it's odd, but it might hey, I'd be okay with that, though. It it's I don't know. Like I said, they gotta stick the landing on these next two Avengers movies. Yeah. Yep. Yeah, it's to me that's when we get to the end of Secret Wars, we will have an understanding of the direction going forward. And I have come to peace with the idea that we have aged out and we might have to accept the fact that they're going to do a soft reboot. Mm-hmm and we're gonna all of a sudden start seeing these characters coming back, but as new people and new actors. And I'm and I'm okay with that. Just give us a good goodbye and come on in. Because we will sit down, we'll recalibrate, we'll do a whole new podcast, start all over again and and and do it, especially when if we're going forward and it's gonna be very X-Men centric. Oh, because I think this next phase and on is gonna be the Mutant era. Oh, totally. You know, I bet you we get Apocalypse as one of the next Avengers movies coming. I just think that would be genius, to be honest with you. Um, so yeah, I I would be all for that. As long as they do it good, right? It's I'm trying to be, I've been a little down lately, guys, about it, and I'm trying to be as optimistic about it as possible. And I'm still very curious to see what they do with this, and it makes me kind of wonder, okay, what's this gonna really look like? But you know, yeah. These characters are so good, and you know what, you know what helped me was watching X-Men again this last week.

SPEAKER_00 17:48

Yeah, well, that's the point that we're gonna get. We're gonna we will get softer on our criticism of the X-Men and the MCU, only because one, it's gonna happen eventually, and two, we haven't seen anything yet. So we can't heavily criticize something or how they're doing it until we see it executed, and then we do a retrospective on it. So between now and the March of Doomsday, when we're doing our X-Men retrospective review specials that you guys are gonna get the bear witness to and listen, um, we're just gonna enjoy the fandom the way it is, yeah. Why we got into it for the first place, how much we love it. And by the time we're done doing these reviews, Doomsday will be out, we'll be marching towards Secret Wars then, and then we can speculate what the future of the X-Men mutant saga is gonna be.

SPEAKER_03 18:30

Yeah, yeah, X-Men humbles me because it I watched it and just briefly, it's like if someone would have handed me back then, here, make this make an X-Men movie, I would have never made what Brian Singer made. You know, as good as it is, I would have never made it. Good. And then I realized, look how different this is compared to what we would have thought the source material was then. Mm-hmm. Oh, yeah. You know, I was like, right now, if we were to if we've never ever had an X-Men movie and someone put it on a table and we said, Yeah, put them in black suits, everyone would be like, why? Mm-hmm. And that's kind of probably that's kind of what people said then. Then I watched the movie, I'm like, oh, it turned out good. Yeah. So, and I know we're gonna get more accurate suits because we've gotten further along, which is great. And the MCU has helped out with that. So is DC. I gotta give DC a lot of credit for that too. They're being accurate in their suits and like taking those chances. I'd like that. I actually would say they may have taken chances first, maybe more bolder, but it's not a competition either way. It's you know, it's the fact that we're they're progressing, yeah. Yeah, the fact that we're where we are with that we can just, hey, let's just throw the suit on that would look like their suit, you know, and then it's that's awesome. But yeah, no, my point is is yeah, guys, just optimistic. Don't turn into Star Wars. You know, uh, Robert Dyne Jr., if he whatever he said there, I you are 100% correct. It is an admission that they understand that they they messed it up. They know they did, and and I'm glad that they're being this way. And we'll talk a little more about some of this actually when we get to the rumor mill about the Russos.

SPEAKER_00 19:52

So yeah, yeah. Well, anyways, guys, so to wrap this up, what do you think? Drop down in the comment section below to let us know your thoughts on the the coffee launch. Do you think it was good? Do you think it was bad? Wonder how it tastes. Yeah, I wonder how it tastes. What do you guys think it tastes like? Is it Colombian? Who knows? Uh let us know. Is it Starbucks? Is it 7-Eleven? Is it McDonald's? You gotta let us know. So, and if you actually have tasted the coffee and you're watching this, really do let us know because we are curious. And what do you think about what Robert Darren Jr. said? What do you think the future is gonna be like in regards to this? And based on all this information, let us know in the comments below. Maybe we'll get this coffee shop to be our first sponsor. Hey, that'd be cool. Call us up, guys.

SPEAKER_03 20:31

We'll sell, we'll we'll lay them out.

SPEAKER_00 20:33

Sponsored by that very young coffee. Yeah. All right. Uh Ike, what is the next news of the week? All right, guys, we got some DC news, which is great.

SPEAKER_03 20:44

Uh James Gunn celebrated the arrival of June by posting an exclusive first look at Lex Luthor in his iconic green suit on the set of Man of Tomorrow. Have you seen this photo, Sammy?

SPEAKER_00 20:56

And what do you think of it? I've seen the photo, and actually, I believe it was just yesterday that there was some uh paparazzi footage. I think I sent you a little bit of that of Superman beating him up or trying to beat him up. And I honestly, honestly, I'll mark this on your calendar, guys. This is the first time I'm gonna say that I wanna see this on the screen. I'm not a fan of the Superman 2025 movie that James Gunn first did. I I'll be very honest, I'm not. It was too comic booky cartoony. I know, comic book movie, of course. What do you expect? But at the same time, well, there's a line. Yeah, there's a line, it fit James Gunn's MO, but is this the right character to fit James Gunn MO? That's how about my whole sticking point. But just based off looks, the image here, the little snippet that you probably would see online, it reminds me of the Justice League animated show that I absolutely love, and I think a lot of kids got into some of the DC stuff through that anime show, just like a lot of Kids became fan of X-Men from the X-Men animated show and all that stuff. Um, it reminds me of how it looked in that. So it makes me wonder how they're gonna do Lex Luthor, how they're gonna actually do the suit once you get the CGI touches on it and all that stuff. And I I will go see this to see just how they're gonna pull this off. It could come out really corny with a big bulky suit like this, but it is very comic accurate looking. So if you have the right amount touch of comic book accuracy plus the realism that you can do in these movies, it could be really good. So I'm optimistic. I'm gonna be a little optimistic this time. What do you think, Ike?

SPEAKER_03 22:38

So first thing I'm gonna say is I was I was like, oh wow, I forgot how far along they are on filming uh Man of Tomorrow. And that that's that's to me that I think speaks more to what I'm about to say, which is I'm gonna double down on it. So mark this on your calendars, guys, as well. Um, this one image made me go, you know, I kind of want to make sure I see Supergirl because I want to go into Man of Tomorrow with all of it fresh in my mind. Because I feel like that there's a good story here in this three-part arc of the Superman thing. I feel like it was a rough start for when it came down to bringing new fans, but it kept all the old and anyone that loves them already. It was a hit. And and like I said, if you love Superman, then it's definitely a movie for for you. Um, but it wasn't for me because it wasn't. I mean, you could just for me, you could take Wolverine and pick up anywhere in his life and I'm gonna watch the movie, right? It I I can't do that as Superman. I I need to be kind of, you know, I gotta be led into something, right? You know what I mean? Like I gotta be I gotta be led into something.

SPEAKER_04 23:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 23:45

This makes me think that if this is all good, if say Supergirl comes out and it's okay, and this comes out and ends up being a banger, it might make the other two better. No, yes. And I'm gonna give James Gunn that benefit because when you look back at our retrospectives, you're gonna find out from me. I'll I'll spoil it right now in a way, you're gonna find out from me that with the Guardians, by the third one, it makes the first one better. He only gets better as he goes, and then and then it reflectively sinks back to, oh, that's why that first one's good so good. So, but we'll get there, I'll be more detailed about it when we do our retrospectives. But that's I think James Gunn is good at doing that, which I think is why he does all these kind of weird characters like this. Because if you are gonna bring them in, how else bring them in without some, but not but now you can bring like anybody in that he has done that is weird. It's not that weird because they're already there. And like to me, that's kind of what makes that work. And this world's already gonna already gonna be crazy. And to be honest with you, to see this three-movie arc of the super people, super family. Yeah, the super family, what the and it and exactly, you know, we've never seen that on film before. No, we've never seen well can't. You know, I mean, we've seen versions of it on different in different places. I guess you know, some of the TV shows, but I don't count. I'm talking movies. You know, I know the TV show, the latest one, uh Clark, and or I can't remember what it was called, but yeah, I didn't just watch it. I I hear it's actually pretty good.

SPEAKER_00 25:11

But Lois and Clark or no Lois and Super Superman, Lois, something like that.

SPEAKER_03 25:14

Yeah, they just change the names around. Who knows? You know what I mean? But either way, it just this makes me more interested. I'm curious to see the direction they're gonna go. And it makes me kind of go, well, I better watch Supergirl because if they're this far in this one, I don't want to fall behind. If it is good, I don't want to be the guy that wishes he was on it. Yeah. So let's see. Until I see one that makes me go, wow, that's a stinker, then I'm not really gonna, I'm not gonna talk crap. And like I said, I may not like that Superman movie, but it wasn't a stinker either. So this looks awesome. I just his suit looks great to see them fight would be fun. I think humbling Superman will definitely make me feel better because I've always hated that he's like just this. I don't even like some of the Marvel characters for those reasons. I struggle like with Miss Marvel because you're just too much. You know what I mean? Like so it's in the Hulk, I'm like, you're too much. I like the Hulk, but he's my least out of them. Other than like how they do him as a character, sometimes I'm like, it's too much. You know what I mean? Like, I like that there's a str I want the struggle, right? Yep, I like my heroes that gotta overcome something, and especially if it's physical. Maybe it's why I like that Mortal Kombat so much that we saw. You know, it's like there's some all really when I think about it, it's like there's something about it where because Shell Khan in that is so overpowering that like when they do accomplish what they're gonna accomplish, like, yeah, you're on with them, you know. Yeah, and and I I want that in these movies as well. You know, that's actually we'll talk about that in that man. That's one great thing about this movie. But like, yeah, uh, let's see it. I just I can't wait to see a trailer. And gosh, if we do get a trailer soon, I mean you're talking James Gunn's on it, man. Yeah. If this is good, then any of the other stuff he's got going on. The only thing that's making me still go, I just can't wait to see. It's probably gonna be the final decision. What is what's Batman gonna be like within this universe? But I think if you set the goofy up and Batman comes in and contradicts that goofy, it actually might work real well. Yeah, yeah, it might work real well. These uh he's gonna be a little more brooding, and it's like, oh, we need that guy. And he he might bring in that relief of the silly and be a little darker. Like Batman's always been, always. So yeah, cool.

SPEAKER_00 27:17

Interesting. Yeah, I agree. Yeah. All right, guys. Well, comment down below. Let us know what you think of the images and the video that's been released so far online of Lex Luthor and his new suit. What do you think it's gonna be like for Superman 2? Let us know in the comments below. All right, I'll roll into our last news segment, our news topic in our news segment. Um, Wolverine PS4 has official gameplay footage. Now, this is the first time, guys. Other than talking about a video game movie, we're now talking about a legit video game coming out, but it's Marvel related and the hype is real for this movie. Or this, sorry, this video game. I do play video games. I love the Spider-Man PS4 games. I love both of them. A lot of people didn't like the second one as much as the first. I think it's just continuing on the story. I liked it. The graphics still are amazing for those two games. Like I remember playing the first Spider-Man PS4, and I was for like a whole weekend. And I normally don't do this anymore because I have a lot of things I got priorities I gotta do, you know, when you get older, stuff like that. But I do play my PS4 still, and I just scroll around New York City, stroll around it with Spider-Man swung around, doing the hey, how you doing type thing. Like that was really fun and cool to do. Um, so I'm I'm uh I can't wait to see what this game is gonna be like. So from the makers of Spider-Man PS4 comes the first official exclusive look at the gameplay for the highly anticipated PlayStation exclusive game, Wolverine PS4. Ike, did you get a chance to see this that was at the state of play that Sony put on? Yes, I did.

SPEAKER_03 28:55

I looked it up and boy, it looks good.

SPEAKER_00 28:57

Yeah, what are you what are your thoughts on this thing? I have a criticism, but we'll get there. The graphics look great.

SPEAKER_03 29:03

You know, uh I have a question about the game itself. Sure. Yeah, I did not look up. I should I knew I was I knew I forgot to. Is this open world?

SPEAKER_00 29:10

Yes, like in the Spider-Man sense. It's like the Spider-Man sense meets the Avengers video game that came out where meets each level is gonna be open world, but it's you know, there's borders and all that stuff, but it is, it's not a Grand Theft Auto in its own way.

SPEAKER_03 29:25

Yeah. I think see, I'm not a gamer, folks. Um, I don't play video games, although there are a few I have played. Now you go back in time when I was younger, um, you know, Sonic and uh Crash Bandicoot, you know what I mean? Like some of this old school uh Spyro. I mean, come on.

SPEAKER_02 29:43

Spiral.

SPEAKER_03 29:44

Oh, we Sammy and I played this Frogger game from PlayStation. That is we still play it. It's so good. It's one of the best. It's so good. It's like there's certain ones I will play this one. Tekken. Uh I like fighting games. Tekken and Mortal Kombat have always been up there. We we've been crazy about both those, those, uh, those games. Uh Sammy was the one that got me into playing the Batman ones that were the open world. The Arkham. Yeah, the Arkham. Yep. Man, I loved those. And then he said, Hey, try Spider-Man. I'm like, Yeah, I will. It took me a year to play the whole game. I haven't played Spider-Man 2 yet. It's okay. But it's just because I'm not a gamer, but I do want to, you know. Um, I I got Grand Theft Auto 5 at home. That I still, I mean, there'd be I don't know, there isn't a week that goes by where there's not a couple hours in a week where I'll hop on and rob a bank and you know, shoot a couple prostitutes and drive the car off a cliff. You know what I mean? Nothing obviously, it's nothing wrong with me, but it's just a it's just a fun the idea that you can just wander around and like and when you see the trailers to the new Grand Theft Auto, oh my god. Like the stuff I've looked up to that, you think that that's this is not this next Grand Theft Auto Auto, we'll talk off off air, is level up of like you're talking PCs are gonna remember your face. So like if you shoot somebody and then later on you run across someone that saw you do that, they're gonna recognize you. Like they're going crazy on like the detail. There's gonna be undercover cops that follow you around in case you do things if you did stuff wrong. Like, I'm just like, I'm down to like I just I like that open world, like you're living in its own little spot and having your own thing, wrestling alligators in this next one. Come on, it's gonna be great. So when I see that though, I'm like, yes, apply that to our superheroes because this makes me I would love to be Logan in an open world setting, like Red Dead Redemption style, Logan running around doing whatever you want to do, yeah, doing the missions you want to do. I still think y'all need to get off your butts in in uh we we I'm gonna broadcast it. I'm gonna say it in a couple shorts. I'm gonna keep bringing it up. We want a Thor open world nine realms game. Yeah. How awesome would that be in this style? Like to me, I'm excited. I'm gonna play this, you're gonna play this. The worst of those games was the Avengers one. You know, but I do think that they stood together thinking they're just gonna make a bunch of money. If they took their time, they could have made a really good game.

SPEAKER_00 31:58

And they're parts of that game, the story, especially, very good, very good story. The problem is they had a lack of villains, they only had like two villains, yeah, really, and then uh it was so they focused so much on one of these multiplayer um things that it took away from the fun part of it where the lagging happened, and then we got unfortunately because of that, some of their planned stuff that they had developed, like an actual Captain Marvel uh player, uh Carol Danvers. You could have played as her, She-Hulk was gonna be in it. They have the all the artwork for it and the video or the voice recording, I mean, all done, and you could data mine that or something or finding online, and they had to cut it because it was you know so poorly received. So just take your time at some of these things. Yeah, it's okay. It takes us, it took them. They announced this game, I want to say, right before Spider-Man 2 was even announced. And Spider-Man 2, of course, was first on their plate, hot money from the first one. I get it. Um, but it's been years since we got this announcement, and now September 15th, you could pre-order right now, guys, on the PlayStation Network, and we're finally getting it.

SPEAKER_03 33:05

Yeah, and and and it's and I'm okay waiting because make them good. Yes, and this is the way to do it. Pick a character that's big and put them in their open world setting and just have fun. Yep. You know, and that's why I think a Thor one would be great. I think a Deadpool one would be good. I I think there's lots of things. I think a Superman one would be cool. You know, you find around like as much as I don't like Superman, it actually would be kind of cool, right? Like I would play the game because I love them Batman ones. Like I I was guys, you'd call you as you'd be like, Are you sure you're not a gamer? Because man, I played the crap out of them. That was a fun one. They were such a good one.

SPEAKER_00 33:38

I could put it on right now, and I have to dedicate a good half hour when I start a game because I want to get into it.

SPEAKER_03 33:43

But they're still they're so addictive, they're really good. So, what's your criticism of this, though? Because I to me it's positive. I'm I'm gonna get it. It'll take me two years to play the darn thing all the way through, but that's fine. So to me, though, guys, that's how I ingest video games. It's like you give me a cool one, I love horror ones. I got a stack of games I've started that I've had to go back and kind of restart because I didn't finish and I gotta dedicate a certain amount of time to do them. But I get more immersed. I'm not someone that can play Resident Evil and all that in three nights and wish I had more time. I get the time out of these. When they announced the trailer for uh the next Grand Theft Auto, I was just finishing five. So, like, so for me, it's like, oh, why are you complaining you're waiting so long? But that's the guy that plays 20 minutes at a time, do two missions and go to bed, right? You know what I mean? And then then so like that's that's not I know people sit for hours, and good for them. I hey, look, I sit for hours watching movies, you know. It's just but I I'll sip every bit that this has out of it. So give it to me, and you know, I'll I'll keep it, I'll keep myself busy till the next one, for sure.

SPEAKER_00 34:48

Yeah. Well, the only criticism I have is just on the the look of Gene Gray. I don't mind a trench coat, like the outfit. I'm not criticizing the outfit, but she has the best way I could describe it is generic character face, where her face looks just like Black Widow from the Avengers games and a mixture of Mary Jane from the Spider-Man games. There's nothing unique about how they've Wolverine Logan, you could tell he looks specifically like him. So they've put a lot of attention and detail to make him exactly how they want him to look to differentiate him from all the other characters. I get it. But they still have got to fix they got time, they're probably working on it right now. This is just a trailer just because of the event coming up and all that stuff. Um just make Gene have a unique, uniquer looking face and doesn't look so generic, even if it's just defining a jawline or doing putting her hair into the ponytail or doing something that makes it where you look at her and you're like, oh, that's Gene Gray. Because if I didn't know that was Gene Gray, I just thought, why does Black Widow have powers? And be like, because it and Black Widow looked good for that video game, for the Avengers game. She looked good for it. But the problem is you can't cookie-color that same look for anyone who's a redhead, just like the Mary Jane. She at least had a different look than the Black Widow. But this one, just look at the stilled images of her. I'm like, you'd even a little AI touch onto it will enhance it enough to make it look like maybe the animated show version or uh make it look like Fanke Jensen. Mm-hmm. But you know, something like that. So that's that's the only criticism I have. The rest of the characters, they look great. Sabretooth looks awesome, Mystique looks awesome. So and she looks unique and she's a redhead, and it's not just the blue skin. Take the blue out and give her like a white person uh coloring and all that stuff, and she her look just looks different. Uh Jean Gray has this generic look, and you need to fix that. But that's it. That's a little thing, honestly. You can and you're probably fixing it right now, especially getting the fan reception now. You're probably like, okay, I know she's in the game like 20% of the time, so let's let's make sure we do her right. So that's not what's gonna put your your game down. You know what I mean? Yeah, for sure. So I'm and I'm curious. This I guess Wolverine PS4 is set in the Spider-Man PS4 universe. Cool, but the X-Men are not together. This is before they get together, and so this is Wolverine meeting Gene. Maybe it sounds like in the gameplay footage he knew of her. He calls her red, that's his nickname for her. But we don't know exactly where this all is, other than we do know it's in the Spider-Man universe, Spider-Man's not gonna be in the game at all, and um, the X-Men have not formally formed because mutants are all over the place, still in hiding. And this has Boulevard trash because it sounds like it's gonna be your main villain. He's capturing mutants, so expect Sentinels, which I think we got glimpsed of them already, isn't it?

SPEAKER_03 37:42

Yeah, me too.

SPEAKER_00 37:42

Yeah. And I love that there's uh Omega Red is in the trailer, classic Wolverine villain, Sabretooth, the classic Wolverine villain. Um, we might get Mr. Sinister, who knows what we're gonna get. I wouldn't be surprised, honestly, we get them, or he's the tease at the end to see what the sequel's gonna be. So, anyways, guys, uh question is for you now. What do you think of the gameplay footage? Did you like it? Are you hyped? Are you a game player and you're now can't wait? Or if you're a casual game player, but because this is Wolverine Man, you're gonna be playing it.

SPEAKER_03 38:14

What do you think the chances are 50 or what if you had to put a percentage on it, one to a hundred, what are the chances are you fight the Hulk in this this Wolverine? And then just not showing you nothing. And like when you get into the game, it's gonna be like oh, at one point. Because that that's a big that's always been a big thing. So, how fun would that be?

SPEAKER_00 38:33

I I I totally understand. I am thinking out loud here in the Spider-Man games, Avengers Tower is there, so it is shown that the Avengers are there. Yep. This isn't the same company that made the Avengers video game, so don't think about that as the same universe. It's not the same universe. Um maybe eventually they'll merge it together. I highly doubt it, but if there's money to be made, they'll do it. If there's money to be made, and if they if they can justify it to say we're gonna improve how poor a reception that first Avengers one is by say it's part of this and up the graphics for a future one. I can see that. But I I don't think, and maybe I'm gonna be surprised, I think they'll save that for a sequel when you could really flush out the the mutants are now been exposed after this first game, and now you're gonna interact with other heroes. I think uh uh Wolverine 2 PS4 will have the Hulk fighting. I don't think this one is. I might be wrong, who knows? But percentage-wise, I'd give this like a for the Hulk fighting Wolverine 20% chance.

SPEAKER_03 39:37

Yeah, I was gonna say about 15 or 20. Yeah, yeah now on on the personal meter, I would love it. Oh, yeah. Give it to me. It was a vision where you gotta fight it, yeah. Yeah, yeah, that'd be a great movie.

SPEAKER_00 39:48

Yeah, all right, cool. All right, so guys, that concludes our multiverse minute. Yep, and now we're gonna roll into the rumor mill rundown.

SPEAKER_03 40:01

Hello, everybody. Welcome to the rumor mill rundown. We got some real good ones for you today, guys. We're gonna have a lot of fun with this, I think. I'm gonna start it out with uh Doom Who? Where is he from? We don't know. So, with the recent rollout of Doom Latvaria Coffee or yeah, is it is it's Dom or is it Doom? It's Dom. Dom Latveria Coffee. What the heck? Anyways, yeah. Uh the the Latvarian flag has officially been revealed. The design is coming into question where RDJ's Doom is actually from uh or it's come into question because of the design of the flag. I'm sorry, guys, about RD Day's RDJ's Doom and where he's actually from. The flag seen in the Fantastic Four is different, and it does not match this promo flag for the coffee. That is interesting. And is it a nothing burger? Or is it something? Or we're gonna read too much into it, but this is a perfect spot for the rumor mill stuff. So what do you say, Sam? We got any additional information over there for us on it? And what are your thoughts? Do you think uh do you think it is different? Or is this gonna make the web, the internet melt and everybody freak out?

SPEAKER_00 41:14

Well, I will say I wanted to make sure I pulled up an image so everyone got to see specifically, it'll be on the screen, of course. If you're watching us on YouTube, by the way, then we have a visual. If you're just listening to the audio version of us, go to YouTube because we do have a video version of the podcast, so I have to plug that in for you guys. But um, there is if you can see this, and it's gonna be on your screen anyways, but see how the flag here, Ike, actually looks like this. This is from the Fantastic Four movie. Yeah. This is on the promo art that's on the back of the coffee menu for this coffee shop. So they are two different flags. They both mean Latveria. So it could be something as simple as Doctor Doom has his own version of Betty Ross. Betty Ross? Who who stitched our flag in America?

SPEAKER_03 42:06

Yeah. Like a lady.

SPEAKER_00 42:08

Do you remember?

SPEAKER_03 42:09

Was it Betty Ross? We sound awful now. We have no idea. We should know this.

SPEAKER_00 42:13

I feel like it's Betty Ross. It just so happens to be the same name as Bruce's love the chief all the time. Betsy Ross? Does that sound familiar? Guys, we'll be a Betty. I do I do like American history, but I Yeah, we're gonna bring apart. But anyways, what I'm trying to say is Doom could have his own version of that lady and just decided we're gonna do a flag switcheroo and uh just update his flag to make it look more like him. That makes sense for Doom. But I would like to argue that I don't think this is the same Doctor Doom. If see, the promo art is very specific and it's actually a little more comic book accurate than what we saw in Fantastic Four First Steps, but they're so close together, and the post-credit scene of the Fantastic Four First Steps has Doctor Doom in it. There is no way that the Brusso brothers would have swapped that out like that, or not swapped that out if there wasn't an underlying intention. I can't think of them doing it that way. It's kind of like it now, it could it could be like in Thor Ragnarok when the Russo brothers didn't like that Taika Watiti got rid of Thor's eye, and so they put that into part of his story as he got his eye back. Pretty cool, pretty awesome stuff. But it was basically them saying, We don't like that, we want him to see through both eyes, so we're gonna give him an eyeball back. It could be something a little bit similar to this where it worked out for your movie, but we really like this flag and we want this as comic book accurate as possible. So therefore, we're just gonna it's gonna be like under the table type thing. It's done and whatever. Or it could be a lot more to do of it. Which can lead into a lot of theories out there that this is not the Doctor Doom from the Fantastic Four universe, which every fan theory out there in the yonder, in the ether, is all about. Doctor Doom is from the Fantastic Four universe. But again, those are fan theories. Nothing has been confirmed from Marvel or Kevin Feige or the Russer Brothers or RDJ himself. It's so we're all thinking it's that, but this could be just uh either a misdirect or uh a little hint of what's to come, in my opinion. It does look a little different, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_03 44:38

Yeah, there's uh yeah, there's uh I have yeah, I have an idea. I wanted I'll I'll present to you when you're ready.

SPEAKER_01 44:45

All right, well, it does look different.

SPEAKER_00 44:47

Because I'm trying to pull up, see there's the coffee that's got that it's just the the dark green or black with the green and the red. Yeah, well that's so because that symbol is supposed to be Doom's face, like a silhouette, which kind of cool. But then you type in the Fantastic Four one, and I know it's like a subtle, like you see it if you see it, but that is clearly has some yellow in it, and it's not Doom's face, but it's the same pattern-ish, so it's still a Latvaria.

SPEAKER_03 45:21

So if you scroll back on that picture, what does it say in that that thing? It says Lavaria, right? Lavaria. So here's my argument. Okay. What if that's pre-Doom? Okay, so it doesn't say Victor Von Doom, Lavarian president, it just says Lavaria. So it could still be from the same universe, he just isn't in charge of it yet. That right? Because if he takes over, why not make a new flag for yourself? And it's Doom. Especially if it's gonna use that probably as the one we're gonna see in Battle World if that all comes to be. Which it was probably what's gonna happen, right? That'd be my only argument to the whole thing. Is the difference in the flag?

SPEAKER_00 46:01

Is that still a free lab area? I could concede to that because Franklin is just the baby in the in the movie. And then when you see Doom with Franklin, Franklin is what, five years old?

SPEAKER_03 46:11

Yeah. So he's even older, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:13

Within the five years' time, Doom took away from the room.

SPEAKER_03 46:15

And that would explain why they're not there. What if that what if that's what's going on in Lab Area is their government's being overthrown?

SPEAKER_00 46:22

That could be.

unknown 46:23

Oh.

SPEAKER_00 46:23

I mean, you know, that's a theory I haven't heard yet. Online, people are talking about this guy, so that's why we had to bring it up because we're like, well, let's get in the conversation too. That's something I've not heard before, what you just said. So maybe that should be part of this conversation out there as well. To explain his absence. Yep. Or their absence.

SPEAKER_04 46:42

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03 46:42

And then, you know, it's just not touched on in a movie because they're more worried about Galactus coming and it's more of the, you know, there's not there yet. Yeah. And how often do people not show up when stuff is going on, right? We see it all the time in our own American politics where this government's not there because they got turmoil going on in their country. So who's to say this isn't during the time when Doom is taking over and or during a time where he takes advantage and takes over? And this flag that we see on this is just more accurate to the time of while he's in charge. Yep.

SPEAKER_00 47:14

That could be, that could be. That'd be that's my guess. If the fan theories are correct and this is the Doom from the Fantastic Four universe, then that that's very plausible that that's probably what happened. It also is interesting to think of if this is the because there's a lot of theories out there about RDJ, if he actually is gonna be like a variant of Tony or Nana. We've talked about that before a little bit. Um people even speculate that that moment where Franklin is touching him in the post-credit scene is actually a moment where he's letting Franklin redo his face to look like Tony Stark. That's a theory I heard thrown out there. I don't foresee that actually being the case.

SPEAKER_03 47:55

I think this is if that's the case, then they're gonna make a bigger deal about Tony Stark's face.

SPEAKER_00 47:59

And they've already kind of alluded that they're trying not to Yeah, they're trying not to make this be the whole thing of the movie.

SPEAKER_03 48:05

I do think there is going to be something to do with it. I do think unless unless he looks way Hey, like I said, I'm not completely down to not completely shut out the idea that he's just figured enough where he doesn't look like Downey at all, and it just happens to be Downey playing him. I just find it very unlikely, seeing the amount of money you put into them. Yes. That's why I feel like if you're gonna have Downey and you're paying that kind of money, then it better be Downey that we see. If we see Downey, then you can't pretend that he doesn't look like freaking Iron Man to all these people, you know what I mean? Because we're not stupid. So that's the only reason I I would push back against that. If it was any other actor or any other character, or a lower paid character actor-wise, then I could see it just being just see what happens. Yeah, exactly. Not not him, he's the highest paid, you're not you're not forking out that kind of money to hide his face and pretend he's not there. Yeah. Um, unless he's gonna be your future producer.

SPEAKER_00 48:59

Yeah, it could be that because that I'm coming around coming along to that with the way he's talking and how he's acting and things like that, that he wants to see this through to make sure that the MCU is as great as it was when he was there. And maybe some of the money that we think owent to him is actually money for different things than just acting. And how many times have actors turned into producers slash directors? John Favreau is a great example of that. Um, number of them, actually, to be honest. So the Russos themselves start off as actors and then they're looking what they're doing now.

SPEAKER_03 49:31

But that is a wild theory about Franklin changing his face. I think we're gonna find out that that they know him and it's not as scary of a situation as the scene made it the she's gonna come around and it's gonna be, oh, it's you. Yep. Because she's gonna probably kind of know him through politics, probably.

SPEAKER_00 49:49

Yep. At the very least. Or if they do put that interpersonal relationship stuff um like they do in the comics a little bit, where he is friends with Reed because they went to the same college, like really touch upon this origin, origin as it's supposed to be. Um, because I can't imagine them giving us the Fantastic Four that we're gonna live with, and they haven't done a comic book accurate origin of them because they did it so well in the Fantastic Four movie that part of their origin is he was friends with Reed Richards, they were kind of intellectual rivals, and then an accident happened which disfigured his face, and they never heard from him again until he became Doctor Doom. And that doesn't mean he became Doctor Doom. They could do a little twist on this, like you're saying, and maybe he's more benevolent version of Doom, and then come to find out no, he's like the ultimate trickster type thing for the Fantastic Four, and saying, Oh yeah, you think I forgot about our little rivalry? Oh no, this just amped up, sir. Yeah, stuff like that.

SPEAKER_03 50:45

So I think he's lying to I think he uses them to get to our universe, but hey, we don't know, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 50:50

Like it's yeah, it's a lot of speculation here. But I like your point on the flag thing that for this rumor that this this could still be the RDJ, the Doctor Doom from the Fantastic Four 82828, 828 universe. But we don't know, guys. What do you guys think? Do you think that this is this this flag is confirmation that this Doctor Doom, RDJ's Doctor Doom, is from a different universe altogether? Or do you think that something behind the scenes was happening in those five years from the Fantastic Four movie till Doomsday that we get um a flag change? What do you guys think? Do you agree with Ike or do you agree with all the crazy fan theories out there in the universe? Let us know in the comments below. All right, Ike, take it away for the next one.

SPEAKER_03 51:35

All right, guys, our next rumor. Okay, we got some uh well, let's see how we go here. In the new interview, Emily Clark laughs off all of her flop projects, including Marvel's Secret Invasion. I don't think no one liked that show, guys. I'm sorry, she says, quote unquote. Quoke, quote. Uh uh Clark says about Secret Invasion and what variety described as a goofy voice in a as a goofy voice. So she said it a very funny voice, guys. Do you think her character will ever be rehabilitated and she will return to the MCU?

SPEAKER_00 52:15

Big question. For those of you who haven't watched Secret Invasion show, we can tell you you don't have to. Just watch our retrospective review when we get to it. That's enough because we honestly think they're not touching that show again. I'll be shocked if they do. They like I've said many times before, as the the defense attorney for Jennifer Walters herself, if there's anyone who could rehabilitate a character, the Russo brothers are probably your best bet. I don't suspect her being in Doomsday, let alone Secret Invasion.

SPEAKER_03 52:50

Yeah, let's just hope they don't do anything with it. I'd say that's I literally that's what my note says is let's hope not. You know, it's like, but Marvel, they haven't been clear straight about what they're doing with that stuff either. You know, because what what's the one thing we're gonna take out of Secret Invasion is Roadie's a scroll. You know, because like we don't know if they're even gonna take that. I I do not like that character in that I don't like that it's yeah. I don't I can't in my mind think of where this thing fits. This character fits. So right now. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 53:26

Like I don't know too much of Amelia Clark, but I hear her breakout role was Game of Thrones, right? She has done stuff projects since then, this being one of them. So I can't speak on her as an actress if she has like uh like it was just written so perfectly for her Game of Thrones that that's really the only stuff she could do, or other stuff has just not been written well for her, therefore she hasn't been up to par. I don't know all her other stuff. I know she did a Christmas one with Henry Golding last Christmas, I think. But uh, anyways, um I was not a fan of her in this show. I get it, she was a big name, and so therefore they gave her a big part, and maybe she did the best she could with what was given to her, but uh she's not the problem with that show. There is many other problems with the show that she just was in the mix of it. So yeah, I could give her the benefit of the doubt to see if maybe you put her in a setting in a really good show or a really good movie and maybe be better. I just don't like the character, honestly.

SPEAKER_03 54:33

I'm gonna I'm I'll be edgy enough to tell you I am still, I think, much like Sophie Turner. And I'm much like some of the cast from Game of Thrones, Emily Clark is still, for me, for as an actress, or as an actor, and her ability, um, it's still kind of out out in the mail. You know, Game of Thrones when you I've watched that show three times all the way through, and there are certain actors in it that excel. Like big time, and you're like, okay, this guy, you know, he's he's beyond what he's doing in this show. He's he's good at he's a good actor. Then there's some where it's like this shows what's made them big, and it's written well enough to where you're gonna like the character no matter what, and then I see their other work and I'm not very impressed. And good Jon Snow himself, the main character of Game of Thrones, Kit Harrington, isn't that good outside of Game of Thrones either. Um and Emily Clark is, I have to say, some of the same. I don't think she's a bad actress, I don't think she shouldn't have a chance of doing things, but we I think we need to, as fans of these things, um, just because she was in a hit show that yes had a very great ending, all you out there can come at me about it. Um she played that part very well, it was written very well, and they played to her strengths of who she was. And it's almost like Emily Clark played a version of herself in a way, because when I saw the next thing I saw her in after Game of Thrones was uh term was Terminator Jenny Smith. Jenny Smith. Yeah, thank you, Jeremy Johns, for that yeah, Terminator Jenny Smith, which is one of the worst Terminator movies in the it's so bad, it's so bad, and she's awful in it, and she's awful because she doesn't capture the spirit of of uh Sarah Connor, not like Linda Hamilton did. And sorry, oh but then somebody can play a different version. No, no, no. There's times for that. There's not this Sarah Connor's not one of those characters. You that is a very specific kind of character to get right. I'm not saying other people couldn't do it other than Linda Hamilton, but Emily Calark's version was definitely like, oh, this is just it's not, it's real, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 57:04

Yeah, well, you're gonna get those comparisons, unfortunately.

SPEAKER_03 57:07

And you are, and and then you you even the ones that do well, like we would look at Silence of the Lambs, uh, Jody Foster plays uh uh Clary's, you know, she didn't do the sequel Hannibal, uh Julianne Moore did, and she did it a little differently, but she still had the essence of who she was and knew who the character was, and it was just someone that had been now in the FBI a little longer. So you were able to kind of accept, oh, okay, I guess you know this person's mature a little bit, and you almost forget it's played by a different actress because they did that well enough, they complimented each other enough. Um, they didn't get that with Emily Clark and and Linda Hamilton when it comes down to passing that baton. Um, but that's also an awful movie around her, though, didn't help because it is it is it's awful. I'd rather watch Sharknado.

SPEAKER_00 57:56

So that's why I'm saying I wonder if she's just not being put into good projects.

SPEAKER_03 58:02

Yeah, but what's another good if you're an agent of hers and they say you want to be in the Nick Fury TV show? Yeah, it sounds great. How do you say no, right? I guess. So, like, and when you on paper, it may have sounded real cool. You know, I don't blame her, I but I will tell you, if you're not someone that can really connect with an audience as an actor, then you will get forgotten real quick. You know, let's let's talk about Kit Harrington in the Eternals. Does people even remember that? We're more focused on we heard Blade's voice, and we're not even gonna get that. You know, it's like if they never showed him again from the Eternals and he was just gone, the MC would move on like nothing ever happened. You know, but and it and it's because how what was the character? Not much, right? And that's that's what she was in this, and it turned out being a character that was even worse than just her acting in it.

SPEAKER_00 58:56

Even her Star Wars solo movie was that that solo movie was pretty, like low ratings and stuff like that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 59:03

So like she's I sorry to say, I'm I'm a critic, guys. Uh she just doesn't resonate with me, you know. And to be frank with you, she's not my top 10 on Game of Thrones either. She's her character's a big story, it's a big deal, and and and there's moments in it, she's awesome. But honestly, when if you really watch Game of Thrones and all you Game of Thrones nuts out there, know is it her that's awesome or is it what's happening around her that's awesome? And 90% of the time is she's on a dragon killing zombies. That's awesome. You could any you could put Will Smith on and we'd still watch it. You know, it's like it didn't matter. She's riding a dragon that's as and fighting another zombie dragon that spits ice in the air. That's like a sounds pretty cool. That's a fantasy man's pornography. You know, it's like that's all you want to see. Like, yes, we want this awesome. You know, it's like that's it's it her acting had not a lot to do with why that role was amazing. Don't get me wrong, she's got great moments in it, you know. But yeah, I say if I were giving them advice, let's just pretend it never happened. Move on. Would we ever remember? I would I would even forget the roadies of scroll.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:21

Let's just not do that either. Uh, you know, I actually am looking forward to that retrospective for that show. And I I only say that I only want to talk a lot of shit about a show.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:32

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:32

I only say that because that is one show I would not mind in indulge me, audience, spending a good two to three hours telling you why it is horrible. Because that is a storyline I hold dear to myself as a comic book lover in the comics. And the first warning sign was, you're making it into a TV show. Like, this is an Avengers level event, this stuff, but yet it's a Nick Fury TV show. Part of me was optimistic because it's Nick Fury, and they described it as the winner soldier version of Nick Fury, and that made me think, okay, now you're playing with something here. But then you get to it, guys, and oh, oh my lord.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:14

It's too bad Marvel didn't just decide to hold on when it comes down to the scrolls. For that. Like, like, like, you know, it it introduce us to the scrolls through the Ms. Marvel stuff and all that, but like, do the scrolls later, later. Well, that's let's get through the mutant stuff and then hit us with scrolls. That's what we really build up and then be like, guess what, Xavier's a scroll to make us all puke and you know, freak out, right? Like that. I mean, instead of doing it in a show where it's like something that was a big deal, is now it's just tarnished by it not being a big deal at all.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:49

Because even the the movies were setting up the scrolls as something, as a force. When we get to it, guys, we're gonna get to it. Because, like you said, we were introduced to them in the Captain Marvel movie, then Spider-Mar from Home, it's Nick Fury's been a scroll this entire time with uh Maria there. Be like, what? So uh it's making you think, oh my gosh, the secret invasion's already happening. Why they never followed that up with the what should have been their first Avengers movie after Endgame was the we don't have an Avengers team, but yet there's a there's an alien takeover in the world. Wow, a good reason to rebuild an Avengers team?

SPEAKER_03 1:02:23

What? Yeah, an idea beyond we don't know what the hell to do? Why don't they take that time and let's figure out what we're doing with magic before we put too much magic out there and you get all confused?

SPEAKER_00 1:02:33

Yeah. There's so much, and they drop the balls. That's like the biggest misopportunity of the whole uh phase four, five, and six is what they did with the scrolls.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:41

If they're smart, they just not talk about it again and then later be like, by the way, remember those green guys? Yeah, yeah, we're bringing them back, you know, and then do an actual secret invasion movie. And then you go nuts. And these guys that are looking to retire make them a scroll and then make us lose our mind, you know, and have fun with it. And yeah, it it is too bad that it really does feel half half thought out.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:05

For this uh question though, I don't foresee this character returning. Let's hope not. Like I said, if she does return, it's for a rehabilitation of the ultimately really nerf her down. Because right now, if you had to ask who is the biggest baddie out, or not baddie like bad guy, but you know, the most powerful being out there in the MCU, you can't list Sentry. She's got every Avengers blood inside her, all their powers.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:35

Why do this?

SPEAKER_00 1:03:37

That is she is the one you have to watch out for if she makes an appearance in Doomsday, be like, oh, movie done. That's it. We're done. We're done. We're done.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:47

Because that's what you've done to her in the TV show. The only thing that can stop her is Dark Phoenix.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:54

Maybe that's when we're gonna see her next. Let's hope not. Well, question is for you guys. Uh, do you think that Gaia, uh Emily Clark's, Amelia Clark's character, sorry, I keep saying Emily, um, from the Marvel Secret Invasion Disney Plus show, do you think that she's ever gonna return? Do you think they've really tainted that whole storyline, the whole show they're never gonna revisit it? Let us know in the comments below.

unknown 1:04:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:18

All right, so I'll give you the last one because I actually did a little write-up on this because I thought this is gonna be a little educational. So, the last rumor, guys, the Russos joined parliament. Not that parliament. Nah, they didn't go to London to become knighted by the king or anything. They didn't use their coffee to get into I mean, that's that's some great bribery right there. Here's some Lavarian coffee. I wanna I wanna be prime minister. Anyways, um, rumor has it that the Russo brothers will be sticking around in the MCU as Kevin Feige facilitated them to join what they call a Marvel Parliamentary Board, which is responsible for the direction of each phase of the MCU. Kevin is also a part of this board, and this is intended to make the next three phases more structured than phases four, five, and six. Now, you may be wondering, and I don't know if you know anything about this Marvel Parliamentary Board, Ike. I've I've read some of it. Okay. So this is for those of you who do not know what this is. The Marvel Studios Parliament is essentially the MCU's internal creative brain trust. It's a small group of senior producers and executives who help maintain continuity, coordinate long-term storytelling, and make sure every project fits into the larger universe. Whenever we talk about Kevin Feige and how he is like Stan Lee is like the godfather of Marvel Comics. Kevin Feige is the godfather of the MCU. He is the guy that the buck stops with him on everything that happens because he's got this great big plan. He's not the only one who's executing this. So, um, it isn't a formal government structure as it makes it sound like. Um, according to producer Nate Moore, the name started as a joke among longtime Marvel executives, and it just simply stuck. So, who is in the parliament? Membership changes occasionally. No one really knows because it's not official. This is the Illuminati of the MCU, guys. No, just kidding. Um, but the most publicly identified people are Kevin Feige, the head of it, um, Louis Dis Dis Epazito. You see him as a producer on like everything. Um, Nate Moore, Steven Broadsurd. I'm gonna I'm butchering your names. I'm sorry, guys, but hey, you get paid bigger bucks than I do. Jonathan Schwartz, uh Trin Tran. Trintran. There's a problem right there. Tru T-R-I-N-H, T-R-A-N, Trintran. Yeah, I mean you want to know what's wrong with the last phase? Trintran. That's the problem. All right, Brad Rinnerbaum, who we've talked about. Uh Ryan Mindring meant men mean ed ring. Meaned. M-E-I-N M-E-R-D-I-N-G. Meener Meener Ding. It's Meanerding. I'm sorry if I'm if I'm really Brad, you need to change your name, bro. Yeah, this is Ryan, Ryan Meener Ding. I'm sorry, sir, if I'm mispronouncing it. Please join our podcast sometime. We'll interview you and get your name right. Yeah. All right. And there's other senior people. Anyways, to make a long story short, I'm gonna try to get through this as fast as possible. Um, many actually of these names appear under the end credits of some of these films as Marvel Studios Parliament. That's how far this joke has gone is actually making something. So I'm gonna look out for that now. Next Marvel movies we watch to be like, ooh, do I see those words in there? Because that's kind of funny. Um Kevin Feige establishes the long-term roadmap. Feige knows the direct the broad direction years in advance. Saga level stories like the Infinity Saga, Multiverse Saga, and the future possible mutant saga, um, major crossover events, character introductions, long-term arcs, post-credit scene payoffs. He is the guy responsible for making sure all those things get done. The parliament reviews every project. Writers and directors don't simply write whatever they want. They have to go through their parliament first. Um, they ask questions like does this contradict an earlier film? Does this character sound right? Will this affect another upcoming project? Does this reveal something too early? Does this line up with the future plans? You ever know this on all these things that they have written down here that I have written down here from my research on what this is? That what is what four, five, and six lacked heavily, it really reinforces that idea of they did not know what they were doing after Endgame. And so they were just doing whatever, and hopefully it'll be fixed at the end. Thank you, Russo Brothers. Um well, maybe. Yeah, maybe. Every project gets assigned a producer that Parliament approves, um, including the Disney series, Disney Plus series ones. Uh, visual development team works on the scripts before they're finished to present to Parliament so they get their their green light and using characters, apparently. I got lists of a whole bunch of stuff from what I found out about these guys. Um, uh, let's see. So the actually, I'm skipping a lot of this. Wise apartment created before 2015. Marvel Studios had an older entity called the Marvel Creative Committee, which included executives outside the Marvel Studios itself. That arrangement reportedly created friction and slowed production down. After a corporate restructuring, which this is actually the perfect time we're talking about this, guys, because we're doing Ant-Man Retrospective now. Next week's episode is Captain America Civil War, just throwing it out there right ahead of time, but not a surprise. But you know, we're going in timeline order for this. And this is literally at that same time when all of this is happening. So it's funny that we're mentioning it now. Um let's see, Marvel Studios report um reported directly to Disney leadership through Feige now, as opposed to what that Marvel Creative Committee is. And so Fige established this parliament from for this reason. So they had still a committee of sorts, but it's an internalized, controlled committee, not outside forces telling them what they can and can't do. And we're gonna get into that when we do the breakdown history of Captain America Civil War, because that was literally when Marvel Studios was having their own Civil War at the time, and that's what this is referring to. So, um, that is basically the conclusion of what that is, what the Marvel Parliament is. So, the rumor though, which is not confirmed, but it's out there in the universe, is why we're talking about it, is that Kevin Feige has brought the Russo brothers into this parliament, meaning they're gonna be here um behind the scenes for the next three, it says here, intended to make the next three phases. So seven, eight, and nine. So, what do you think about this, like? Do you think that this has any hint of truth into it? Do you think that this is real or is this just a rumor?

SPEAKER_03 1:11:15

I think um duh, why hasn't this been done already? So, like, okay. I won't be surprised if Robert Down Jr. is part of this board now, to be honest. Well, maybe. I mean, here's the thing, guys. It is just a rumor. And I'm glad that they still have this idea, there's a little group of guys that are gonna kind of shepherd this through. It would make me want to put them in a room over the last four years and say, What are you doing? Because nobody in here sat down and said, That's not gonna work. And because that to me is a group effort then, which means they're failures. We can't just we can't say Fige wasn't a part of the failure of this situation as well.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:59

Yeah, unfortunately.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:00

So he's gonna have to admit that he Greenlit was okay and had suggested or went along with some things that in hindsight you probably was like, damn, that's not a good idea. You know, I'm and I'm not saying Fuge did anything on purpose or was was slacking, but it's something's wrong there, right? And I say to Russo's, if you're gonna bring anybody in, obviously they like what they did with Doomsday. You know, obviously they're liking what they're doing with Secret Wars because that's going on as well. They're batting 100 as it is. You know, all four Russo Brother projects are the best of the MCU. So if you're gonna bring someone in and knows what they're doing, why not bring those guys in? Personally, I'll feel better about it once I see Doomsday. Doomsday for me is the catalyst of these guys, to my opinion. Um, not that I know it's like I'm not obviously I trust in the Russos, they know what to do with these characters, they've proven it over and over again. They gave us two of the best Avengers movies ever made, two of the best Captain America movies ever made, four of the best superhero movies ever made. So I would definitely, if I was playing poker, I'd be like, yep, all in. Let me see what you guys got. They are right to go to them to fix this ship. Which means if this rumor's true, then they are right to ask them to stay on to make sure they don't do this again.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:21

Mm-hmm. Because Feige's great, but something's gonna get past you.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:27

You know, and I think these guys think I think that if they kick butt with these next two Avengers movies, they're gonna get the next Avengers movie as well. And they're gonna want to set themselves up for success. Yeah. And I think that would be the best thing that they could do, to be honest. Because I think I think James is doing the same thing with the DCU. I think your first your first Justice League movie is gonna be a James Gunn movie. And it's gonna be because he shepherded it to what he wants to be when he gets there to make it. And I think that these guys should do the same. Hand your Avengers movies to these guys until they make you a bad one. Like right now, they've made two great ones. Mm-hmm. Great ones.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:10

Not to mention great Captain America movies.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:12

Yeah. Which, like I said, Josh Whedon did great with the first one, not so good with the second. These guys made two great ones, one better than the other, and the other one, you would after we saw Infinity War, how could you do better? And they're just like, watch me. Just keep watching. Yeah. And it's like, oh god. And then after Winna Soldier, how could they do better? We'll talk about it next week. You know, it's like, wow. Yeah. They this so yeah, that's why when I when if if you're gonna have someone correct this mistake, I'm I am a lot of the weight for me is like, okay, I'm gonna see what they got before I start this, you know. But if doomsday sucks, we'll have a different conversation.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:57

Yeah, I I mean I completely agree with what you're saying. And to piggyback off what you were saying before about um like shepherding in, if they if they knock it out of the park with Doomsday and Secret Wars, and Kevin Foggy's like, look, this is the secret sauce that's making us not only a lot of money, making you a lot of money, making you famous, us more famous, getting us back on track. We want you to already be plugged into the future, end of phase seven or end of phase eight, however long they're gonna go now for between these Avengers crossover movies. Um, they're gonna say, we want you to be there. And I think what we saw in leading up to Infinity War is is a reason why some of those films right before that, including uh to a degree Black Panther, but definitely Thor Ragnarok, was like a direct lead into that. The Russo brothers have already been writing this stuff and they were like, this is where we need to go. And so they've already been through this part of shepherding in to their movie while letting other creatives, creators do their thing with some of these other characters. So they they would have experience in that regard to say to um whoever it is, I can't believe I can't remember on the top of my head who's directing the X-Men movie, be like, the Rooster Brothers, like, we're putting the X-Men, the MCU X-Men into our next Avengers movie. Jake Schreier, I believe it is. Um, when you do X-Men 2, after since you've already introduced them and it's right before an Avengers movie, you just need to make sure you don't kill this character or you do this with this character or something, because it's gonna go into our story. They know how to do that directive, kind of like how Kevin Feige has done it too.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:35

And they're smart enough to work around a few things that aren't a big deal. Thora's eyeball. Thor's eyeball, exactly, is a perfect example. You know, it's like, but I when you watch Captain America's Civil War, it's clear that they knew from then where they were going to end game. Oh yeah, this is their plan. Yeah. Or there wouldn't have been the nuggets like it was.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:56

Yeah. Yeah. So whether or not this is real, guys, that's up to your interpretation. It is a rumor out there on online. I hope it's real, but until we hear something or we see in the end credits of Doomsday, it says the Parliament Board and they're on there, we really don't know. They're the only ones that really seem to have a grasp on these characters. Well, they're the only ones, in my opinion, right now, that would fit for being on this board. Yo, for sure. Especially what they're trying to overhaul and do a restructuring, a soft reboot. It makes sense to have these guys in. That's why I won't be surprised if even RDJ is on this board, just not as an actor, so much in the streets.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:35

This board should be Feige, Robert Dunne Jr., the Russo brothers, and John Favreau. That's what this board should be.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:41

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:42

John, walk away from Star Wars. They're never gonna like it. They're never gonna like it. Come back to Marvel. You tried. You tried and you did good, they're never gonna accept you. Didn't just come back.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:50

Kevin Feige say he wants to direct a Star Wars movie.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:53

A lot of directors have said that, and now they're all like, no, thank you. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:57

No, Kevin Feige, stick with Marvel because we know you're good at Marvel when Marvel was really good. So and you know what?

SPEAKER_03 1:18:04

Nolan's gonna be fine too because he's gonna do a James Bond movie. So he's like go screw.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:10

All right, guys. What do you think? Jump down in the comment section below. Let us know your thoughts on the Russell's if they are joining the Marvel Parliament or not. Excited. Yeah. All right. We're now gonna jump into a brand new segment on the Goodell Multiverse podcast. Yeah. This is gonna be really exciting. I hope you guys are ready for this because we are certainly ready for this. I hope we're going our way. Yeah, we hope we're gonna give it a shot. It's our first time, so bear well with us. We're going to trivia takedown. Welcome everyone to the Goodell Multiverse Podcast, Trivia Takedown. This is the first time we're doing a game show, guys, so I had to give out get out my game show voice. You know, we can't let Alex Trebek down. So, anyways, um, the first game we're gonna play is called Power Court. So, we set it up in the last episode. In case you need a little bit of a recap, Carol Danvers accuses Steve Rogers of stealing two Kit Kat bars in the convenience store. Now, a little bit of how this is gonna go down for your entertainment purposes, of course. I am playing the prosecutor. My brother Ike is playing the defense attorney. So I'm gonna lay out my opening statement. He'll lay out his. We'll do a little bit of rebuttal and argument back and forth, then we'll both give our closing remarks. And then someone that's off camera who is listening to this whole thing, and you may hear her voice from time to time. She was a special guest on one of our podcasts recently. If you haven't watched it, go watch it. Um, she will be giving, she'll be playing the judge. She is our mother. You're the honorable Justin Goodell. So there's no there's no there's no bias here, anyways. Um so she's the mute the neutral party. She's gonna hear our cases out and then rule in favor or not for Captain America. Okay, are we ready?

SPEAKER_01 1:20:16

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:17

Court is in session. Dun dun, okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:21

All right, guys. Let's hear what Bull Krabby's guys.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:29

Your Honor. We are here today because even the most decorated hero is not above the law. The defendant, Steve Rogers, a man once regarded as the embodiment of honor and integrity, stands accused as of a d of a deceptively simple but legally significant offense. The theft of two Kit Kat bars from a local grocery store. Now, the defense may attempt to frame this as trivial, just candy, if you will. That's what they'll say. But I will remind this court that justice is not measured in dollar value while but in principle. The law does not have small crimes exemptions for super soldiers. The evidence will show that the defendant was present at the scene at the exact time of the incident. Multiple civilian witnesses place him near aisle four, the confectioner section, acting, shall we say, suspiciously calm. Surveillance footage, while partially obstructed, mind you, clearly does show a figure matching the defendant's build and posture. Though the original intent for Steve Rogers' appearance was to stop a crime that was actively develop developing that doesn't excuse first responders from committing another crime and to expect no consequences. Now, I anticipate the defense may object on the grounds of circumstance circum circumstantial evidence. And yes, Your Honor, I acknowledge it is circumstantial, but circumstantial evidence is still admissible when it forms a consistent and coherent chain of events. I would remind the court that even the strongest armor can be penetrated by a well-constructed timeline. We are not here to prosecute legend or legacy. We are here to determine the truth. And the truth is this two kickett bars are missing. And Steve Rogers was there when it happened. The prosecution will prove beyond a reasonable doubt that even Captain America is not above a poorly timed snack decision.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:16

Thank you, Your Honor. All right, defense. Alright. So Your Honor. I'm representing Steve Rogers today, aka Captain America. I am going to take a shot in the dark at this for him. We have talked. And we are not disputing that the Kit Kat bars are missing. In fact, we're not even gonna dispute that he didn't take them. Because that's not what we're gonna discuss during this.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:58

This case is not that simple. Okay? I believe that this case is not a question of could we? But it's more of a question of should we when it comes down to this situation. We could throw the book at Steve Rogers.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:15

You know, no one's above the law, stealing, stealing. All these things would be correct. But I think we need to ask if we should. Because the truth is, is this was during an ongoing investigation.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:32

A situation had happened that he was going and had fixed in this convenience store with these two real bad guys who I would remind you were Hydra agents.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:44

And Steve simply did not have his wallet. He did make a judgment call, he did take the Kit Kat bars.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:53

But should we make that example out of this man for that?

SPEAKER_01 1:24:58

Would we not consider him law enforcement in that sense?

SPEAKER_03 1:25:03

I mean, sure, there's been debate over the years of if the Avengers are law enforcement or if they should be or if somebody should be watching them and taking over and all those fun things. And we've seen that that's failed over and over again. This is a guy who gave his life for this country 70 years in the ice, brought back to life to give his life almost four other times to save the world. Now, I'm not saying we need to let all these little crimes not be a crime, crime's a crime. I understand that. But what's the difference between a police officer giving somebody a parking ticket and not the speeding ticket they deserve? What would be that difference when we talk about this? I would argue that a police officer commandeering a person's vehicle during a high-speed chase in order to stop them from hurting someone else and to continue the pursuit of that case is no different than this man needing to eat something while he's protecting your rights from these Hydra people, from the very people that have infiltrated our government that he can't even trust.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:10

He's done this time and time again. Sure. You know we are looking for a not guilty because we do feel circumstantially that he did not do this out of malicious intent.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:27

We are talking about Steve Rogers. I do believe his reputation, not that it's above the law, but I do believe it should be considered. So to me, Your Honor, I do believe at this point it's not so much a question of could we do this? Because yes, we can. We can do this to anybody. But lots of times, and there's tons of cases that it can be pointed to. Some of the question comes down is should we? Is this the time to tear down a pillar of the community such as this man? What example are we sending? Because to me, and to us, it feels like fear mongering on the prosecution's part. The same kind of stuff that he's been fighting against this entire time. And we would even argue that he's even trying to infiltrate in their own department Hydra agents.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:18

So a couple kick hat bars for our safety. I think we owe it. All that he's done for us. Absolutely. That is a heck of an opening, sir. Your honor. The defense is right about one thing.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:57

Captain America is a pillar of the community. But don't we look towards our leaders to be doing the right thing, no matter what the cost, all the time, all day long?

SPEAKER_01 1:28:10

He was doing something noble. There's no disputing that from the prosecution standpoint. But does one crime being thwarted justify another crime from that same hero who committed it?

SPEAKER_00 1:28:32

Are the people of New York supposed to expect that we must give heroes free kickette bars?

SPEAKER_03 1:28:41

I would say the people in New York would be happy those Hydra agents are off the street rather than those kicket bars are missing. For sure. And I don't know what world the prosecution lives in where they think, you know, every man has to be perfect and doesn't have something wrong with them, whether he has permission for those bars or not.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:07

This goes against the very foundations that Steve Rogers himself has publicly declared.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:16

He doesn't like the government. Who among us likes politicians? Who among us likes the government? But we do what we are sworn to do. Captain America is sworn to protect those, not rob from the same convenience store that was being robbed by. At the end of the day, Your Honor, the victim is the store owner, this grocery store owner. No matter which way you cut it. Because yes, hydro agents that were there were robbing him. No one in the community wants that at all. But the same man that was sent there to protect the community from these hydra agents still takes advantage of the community that he's supposed to be protecting. How is that fair?

SPEAKER_01 1:30:07

What is the difference there? If he's supposed to be better than the Hydra agents, why not simply say, hey, can you help me out here?

SPEAKER_00 1:30:20

Instead, he steals two Kit Kat bars.

SPEAKER_03 1:30:26

So, Your Honor, I have to say, the world this person lives in is wild to me. I wish it was the world that we had. But Steve Rogers has proven all these things that he has said, this thing that the things that he has stood up for, he has proven over and over again. And yes, against a government he doesn't trust, because you're talking about a government that has turned their back on him several times. And we're also talking about a government who also elected a leader who had secrets where he turned into a Hulk and murdered people in the streets of Washington, D.C. So to tell me or to make the people believe that Steve Rogers went into this grocery store, caught these Hydra agents in the act, was able to get them while he was undercover, was able to get them in the act of what they were doing, and that him taking the Kit Kat bars was a premeditated way of taking advantage of that grocery store, I do believe is just farce. It is just not true, and it's just a story that is fear-mongering, and it's exactly the kind of thing Hydra would want us to think, would want you to think about Steve Rogers. Like I it it it his principles, you want to talk about the principles of what he's got going on? Steve Rogers is the best of us in that sense, and we owe him that. I do still contend that if it comes down to a couple Kit Kat bars, we we let him have them for sure.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:49

Your Honor, is this what we are to be expecting of all of our heroes? They are to unanimously not all the heroes are on trial today, Your Honor.

SPEAKER_03 1:31:59

Just Steve Rogers is or isn't he?

SPEAKER_00 1:32:01

Yes, just Steve Rogers is on trial today.

SPEAKER_03 1:32:03

Now we're gonna balk everybody into one group.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:05

No, but this sets a precedent. Sounds like a Hydra agent to me. This sets a precedent, Your Honor, on future acts of heroism.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:14

Circumstantial. 100%.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:18

No, the defense doesn't like those.

SPEAKER_03 1:32:20

We're talking about crimes that haven't even happened, Your Honor.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:22

It's circumstantial. I object. Well, crimes are not gonna stop just because of this one incident, Your Honor. As a matter of fact.

SPEAKER_03 1:32:29

We can't use an example of unwanted crime or unhappy, or we can't use an example of crimes that haven't happened against someone of a crime that you do have. You can't even stand on your own kick bar crime. You gotta go ahead and lump all the superheroes in as one in order to get Steve Rogers. Objective. That should be proof alone, Your Honor.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:51

This sets a precedent, Your Honor. Depending on which way you decide to rule, when it comes to this particular case with Steve Rogers, the pillar of the community, that no one is questioning. No one is questioning what he has done for this nation. We are all indebted to veterans such as himself. That does not negate that you break the law, you suffer the consequences of such law. Plain and simple. Steve Rogers, more than anyone, knew of this beforehand. And yet he still did a crime. Whether he was premeditated or not, a crime has occurred that he had complete control over and he did it. What is this to say for the next heroism act that happens? Steve Rogers can get away with it. He's who we all look towards. Therefore, I need to be rewarded. This is nothing more than the government being made through the judicial system to reward someone for heroism unnaturally. We can reward heroism all day long.

SPEAKER_03 1:33:58

That's speculation, Your Honor. That's yeah, I object. That's speculation. There was there was no conversation with Steve Rogers that had anything to do with him saying this as he was owed this at all. This was in the moment of the crime of what was happening that he was involved with trying to stop that this happened.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:16

This is not saying he feels it was owed to him. His feelings regarding this had nothing to do with the facts of what this court case, what this decision today will affect and ripple across the rest of our judicial system in America. The consequences are what matter in this case. Whether or not Steve Rogers intended to take these Kit Kat bars or not, that doesn't matter. If he couldn't afford them, he didn't have his wallet, as the defense has said, he doesn't get them. It's simple. He came back later. But instead, he decides in the moment, because he's a little hungry, I'm gonna take these Kit Kats. If we all decided to do what he did, whether it was in the act of heroism or not, we'll be arrested. It's a crime. You do not steal that which is not yours.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:13

Steve Rogers did that. He stole. And that is why we're here today. I'm ready for my closing statements if you want to go ahead and do yours. Alright, I will give my closing statements, Your Honor. Your Honor, at the end of the day, this case has always been about the act of committing crimes and getting away with it.

SPEAKER_00 1:35:45

We're not asking you to speculate. We're asking you to look at the evidence that's been presented to you by both the prosecution and the defense in this courtroom today, this timeline, these accounts. The defense would like you to believe that this matter it's a nothing burger, Your Honor. They would want you to believe that. They want you to believe that because of who Steve Rogers was prior to this incident, that therefore he should be judged on that as opposed to the crime he actually committed. And the prosecution does not believe that is a noble or just intent for the people of New York State. We are not here to punish a hero, but to reaffirm a standing principle, Your Honor, that justice is applied equally, even when it may be inconvenient. For those reasons, we ask that you find the defendant responsible.

SPEAKER_01 1:36:48

Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 1:36:54

I got about three or four good points here to make about this for the closing statement for Steve Rogers. First of all, we have rules and laws in this country for people that break the law and the circumstances for which they break the law. A good example is driving drunk is definitely against the law. There definitely should be a uh repercussions for doing so. Although there are many cases where someone had to leave the scene of something because their life was in danger and they were drunk, and they have been found not guilty of such a thing because of what they were doing. Why does that not reach out to our client in the in this aspect as well? Um, the other thing I have to say is the only precedent that this sets, you bring up precedent, it sets a precedent. The only precedence is gonna set is the next time Steve Rogers is in the process of saving the people of this city or saving the people of the world, he's gonna now double check in his mind what should I shouldn't do, because now they're gonna pull me in for things. You know, we don't know 100% the circumstances to why the Kit Kat bars were taken. As far as we know, it could have been a tool for him being undercover. All we know is they weren't paid for it, he did take them. It really does come down to this idea of it's not a matter of could we prosecute Steve Rogers for a crime? Yes, we could, but we could prosecute people for jaywalking as well, and that doesn't happen. So I think it's a matter of should we? I think in this case, Steve Rogers is not guilty. He was performing the duty that he promised he would do, which is keep the American people safe from Hydra, and it's exactly what he did.

SPEAKER_00 1:38:39

Arrest you know it's so now the decision is up to you, Your Honor. Is it a judge? Yes, is Captain America guilty or not guilty of this crime?

SPEAKER_01 1:38:55

Well, it's been proven that Captain America did not pay for two items, i.e. Kat bars. If he had asked the storekeeper for them, they would have gladly given it to him. But he stole it. It was obvious he stole it. So in that sense, he is a guilty man of theft. Now the punishment for that would be about five dollars and fifty cents to pay back to the store owner. Is he a hero? Yes he is. Even heroes' fault. Even heroes are human. Part of them is human, anyways. So I find that Captain America is guilty of theft, and a payback would be five dollars and fifty cents, and we still celebrate him as a hero he is, but remind reminding yourselves that he is a human being and he will fall. He will make bad choices. I think if he'd asked for a candy bar, they wouldn't give him a whole piece of candy. If he was that hungry, he's gonna send me that I'm starving. I would have given the store. So I do find him guilty. Thank you, Your Honor. You're welcome, and court is adjourned.

SPEAKER_03 1:40:20

Well, I tried, Steve. Sorry, buddy. You tried.

SPEAKER_00 1:40:23

So I guess Jay would be a good one. Are the same thing to you, sir? No, I'm just saying.

SPEAKER_03 1:40:28

Just next time you need the Avengers, Steve's just gonna be like, Well, I'm gonna stay home.

SPEAKER_00 1:40:35

Oh that was Power Court. All right. Thank you so much. Yes, thank you so much, Mom, for doing that. Thank you, Yirana. Okay. On to our next game. All right.

SPEAKER_03 1:40:51

I'm surprised she gave it to you. I tried, man.

SPEAKER_00 1:40:56

You did good. You did very good. Yeah. It's harder sometimes, I feel like, as a defense because well, it's way hard.

SPEAKER_03 1:41:02

Because like some of it is you gotta, some of it you gotta take on a. I took the chance of taking on the guilt. Yep. Yeah, and I what I should have done is try to make it prove he did it. But I didn't want to go that direction. I I thought we could get it off of the really the I can get it off of the who he was, you know. Because if I was so I wouldn't have found I don't know, I probably wouldn't have found truth. So you'd be like couple kicked by us, man. What's the big deal? But no, I get it. Yeah. It was great. That worked out real good, though.

SPEAKER_00 1:41:29

All right, all right, guys. The next game that we're gonna play, it's called Draft Disaster. Ike, would you like to get an introduction to it when you get Yes, find my page here?

SPEAKER_03 1:41:42

There it is.

SPEAKER_00 1:41:42

And guys, let us know in the comments below if you think Captain America should have been found guilty or not. Yeah, I'd be curious to see what y'all think.

SPEAKER_03 1:41:48

You know, I think we're taking a chance of him being like, you know what then? Next time, don't give me a call. But you never know.

SPEAKER_00 1:41:54

He's too good for that. He could do this all day.

SPEAKER_03 1:41:57

Yeah, he would. Yeah, he would. I know. Okay. One of my favorite parts in that movie. Anyways. Um, so guys, this next game is uh draft disaster. So what it is is Sammy put forth uh last week that the disaster scenario that we're in, what it is is we're gonna do a disaster scenario. There's gonna be a villain that's against you during this disaster scenario, and there's another uh element to it that's a surprise. And what we do is we pick on our own time, we pick three different heroes that are fighting not only the villain, but also preventing the disaster and including this whatever this extra surprise uh element is. And how the game's gonna go is Sammy's gonna tell you his three. He's gonna give you the backstory of why them and what they're gonna do and his his whole spiel of the situation, and then I'm gonna do it. And while he's doing his, I'm gonna kind of take notes and and we're just gonna on a good face kind of thing see who we think came up with a better story or a better scenario. And we might find ourselves that hey, they're both real good. We might find ourselves that yeah, this one's just a little better. And I think we're gonna be very honest about it. I think we'll have fun with it. Um, this one's a little hard one to judge. We uh when we well, we do, I think this one could use a judge in the future. Um, but we're working on having a third person with us with that kind of stuff, and especially with these kind of games. So it'd be interesting to see. But uh honestly, guys, it would help us out a lot if you guys were the judges of it when you're when you're done watching this and hearing this, you know, go on there and uh put in the comments who you thought. And if you guys do uh give us an overwhelming answer, then we'll take it. You know what I mean? So so this is not it's not necessarily no one's right or wrong. I think we're we're gonna do our best to good faith argue ourselves into being the winner of whichever one of them, and we'll go for it. And uh so Sammy, why don't you start us off? Well, I'll start by saying right off the bat our disaster scenario is a volcano. Uh the hero or the villain that's that you are against is Hella. And the uh extraordinary circumstance or element part of it is something to do with midnight. So go ahead, Sammy. What do you got?

SPEAKER_00 1:44:22

Okay, well, I'm gonna build my team for you. I'm gonna explain why I picked these characters, then I'll tell you the little bit of story of what I think would have happened. All right. First person I am gonna tell you that's on my roster is Monica Rambeau. Has photon.

SPEAKER_01 1:44:41

Who's that? No kidding.

SPEAKER_00 1:44:43

All right. Um, I would like nickname her for this scenario as like the untouchable support because her powers of phasing and things of that nature. She is her ability to transform into energy means that Hella's physical blades may simply pass through her while she's phasing. She can fly, as demonstrated in the Marvels, um, at a very tremendous speed, by the way. Um she is able, because of the her abilities to see through the darkness, because she could see energy, and therefore she could also provide a range of energy-based attacks if need be, as demonstrated in the Wandavision TV show. And also, of course, the end of the marvels, uh the epic battle at the end. Um, most importantly, though, I feel of these three characters, she probably is the one that can be the most significant when it comes to saving any civilians that are on this in this area. Simply by becoming energy and moving fast through all the chaos that's happening. The second person I would pick is Spider-Man, Peter Parker. Now, a lot of people I feel like, and we're gonna get to that when we get to our retrospective of Spider-Man homecoming, but I think they underestimate the MCU's version of Peter Parker. I think that his spider sense kind of borders the line of precognition to a degree. Um, he has incredible agility. There's no question for that. He has a genius level of engineering intelligence. Um, he's experienced in improvising a lot more against uh enemies for survival and making himself stronger in that aspect. Um I would say that for someone like Spider-Man, he's more of an offense than a defense type guy. Um his mission is not to fight Hela directly head-on, it's more along those lines of surviving, distracting, which he can do really well. Um, that we've seen that in Avengers of Vindywar in particular. Um, and also helping create openings for other heroes to attack when need be through that distracting. Um, I actually would feel that the volcano erupting would help him because in the midst of the smoke and the rock formations are being done and the malted lava and all that, he can be able to disguise himself swinging around a little more. Um, the third person I'm gonna give, which Parmi was not gonna give this to her, but I think this will make an interesting element for this uh villain, because let's face it, Hella's a kind of a top-tier villain, to be honest, with how powerful she is. I am gonna put Wanda in there as my other hero. She, to me, would be a little bit more of the win condition. Now, I don't want her to use her reality and warping abilities because I feel like that could be a little more of a cheat type thing. Um, but as far as like the magic that Hella uses to a degree, she could be able to counterreact it. Um, she would be taking much more of an offensive and battle-controlled type responsibilities. So here's the story I'm gonna set it up for you guys. It's midnight. The volcano is already erupting. Ash fills the sky, reducing visibility to almost nothing. Hella appears and immediately begins filling the battlefield with thousands of her swords. Spider-Man doesn't engage. Instead, he constantly swings around the volcanic rock formations, forcing Hella to chase a target. And she can't easily pin him down. His spidey sense allows him to narrowly avoid her blades as they are barraging towards him, and him firing web um his web shooters would help him and aid him in this in this uh battle of distraction from Hella. Monica takes to the air. Whenever Hella launches a massive volleys of blaze, Monica phases through them and attacks from unexpected angles with photon energy blasts. She's not trying to hurt Ella as much as keep her attention divided between her and Spider-Man. That's where Wanda comes in. So with Hella being distracted by those two, Wanda emerges as part of the battlefield. She uses her chaos magic to use the volcano's eruption in her favor against Hella. The volcano um becomes her weapon, and she telekinetically rips apart sections of the mountain, directing lava flows, collapsing everything around them for Hella to narrowly escape. Spider Man realizes that direct attacks are useless. He can't do it. So he starts webbing together massive volcanic boulders and broken rock columns, creating obstacles. Obstacles that momentarily slow Hella's advancement. Because let's face it, guys, she's pretty fast. At one point, he even webs together a collapsing section of a cliff long enough for Monica to evacuate some trapped civilians. There's a little hero moment right there. Finally, Wanda unleashes, wrapping Hella in the chaos magic that she has imbued into the volcano. While Monica bombards her from above. Peter is using every remaining web cartridge she has against Hella. Um, and has multiple uses multiple rocks and volcanic pillars to entrap her. Not to hold her forever. That is until Wanda tears open the volcano crater itself. The ground beneath Hella would collapse, dropping her into the magma. Or tons of rock to follow. Monica blasts a weakened spot inside the mountain, causing a second collapse that will seal the crater. Peter and Monica immediately extract Wanda from the volcano before the volcano finishes its eruption. So I think that this would work a little bit because Scarlet Witch plays a magical offense and kind of to her own degree using the battlefield in her favor. Peter is more of a divergent for uh Hella, and Monica is able to do similar to what Peter could do, but also save the civilians at the same time. So technically speaking, the volcano, because of Wanda, becomes the fourth member of the team thanks to Wanda.

SPEAKER_01 1:51:46

So that is my uh story. It's a lot to take in, I know. It's pretty I like it though. It's good.

SPEAKER_03 1:51:55

I got some things to say about it, but let's I'll do my story first and then we'll say things about it. I got some notes I took down. Um but I think it's good. I might I might give you a run for your money on this one. I don't know. It's funny. Um I gotta win one of these guys. Anyway.

SPEAKER_01 1:52:11

So my three heroes I picked is Doctor Strange, um, Iron Man, and Wanda. Oh we both had Wanda. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:52:29

So I picked Doctor Strange because of the spell capability that he has. And he has a timestone. Um that's a big deal. Um, I picked Iron Man solely for evacuation and saving people. And I picked Wanda because I think she's very formidable when it comes down to fighting against hell with the magic. And I will have to say, I'm not, I don't want to say too much about yours yet, but I'm gonna just as a as a caveat, I don't think her mind, her mind warping stuff, the reality stuff, is a cheat. I think that's something she can do, and I think that's something that they underutilize in the MCU. Um, is so yes, she is going to use that here, although not the way you think. So maybe I'll surprise you. I'm intrigued. Okay. So the story for me is I take it as I'm looking at as Hella after Ragnarok. Okay. She's we're not sure if she's really dead, right? We really don't know, you know. That when the characters die, like she died in that, they could just come back because why not? You know what I mean? Like, because you're not seeing a body, it's it's cool. It's always been the rule in film, right? So I took it as this is Hella coming to Midgard to get revenge of what happened during the Ragnarok situation, and she comes from the ground creating a volcano outside or right in the middle of New Asgard. So she's finishing the job that she's basically started, correct? That makes sense, right? It is New Asgard, right? It is the name of it. I yeah, I almost said second Asgard. I don't know why I had that in my mind, but anyway, New Asgard, guys. Um she returns by by creating a volcano, and if she gets the volcano to erupt at the volcano that she makes, if it erupts at midnight at a certain time, it will actually have a ripple shockwave event that goes across all nine realms, which in her mind is a win-win. She's gonna get back at Thor, get back at Asgard, and she's gonna be able to take this on and move on and possibly threaten the rest of Midgard, which is Earth, or at least through the nine realms. Her power is gonna be immense.

SPEAKER_01 1:54:57

So, in this scenario, I have Iron Man being utilized.

SPEAKER_03 1:55:03

If you picture this, you got this volcano in New Asgard, it's erupting, they're trying to flee. Thor's nowhere to be found. Why not? MCU does it, so why can't we? He's just nowhere to be found. You're all right. I mean, that's yeah, I think that's a very I don't think either of us are gonna strike each other on why you just call this guy because this that's this is the game, right? Guys, we only pick three, or Thor would be there. Um, he'd be my fourth, anyways. Uh, so the volcano's gonna erupt, it's gonna kill these people of New Asgard. Sure, they could run and all that, but you got Iron Man guys. Like one thing that we liked about Iron Man when we watched you know Age of Ultron is he's out there saving people and in New York City was saving people and fighting. So Iron Man himself can use the Iron Legion, and they can all go in there and start getting these as guardians out. If Hella has any minions, which I'm gonna assume she would bring some with her, especially if she's come, she's coming ready this time. She wants to win, so she's bringing some hell minions with her, then you got Iron Man, man. He's gonna put that, he's gonna put down a fight down there. You know he's gotta do it. Plus, he's got Veronica. If he needs it, if it comes down to it, he can call Veronica any second. Veronica is gonna come right down and he can suit up. So I picture the Iron Legion getting people out, Iron Man organizing that, the minions coming out, he's fighting them, he gets a little nervous about it because they're kind of getting the upper hand. He calls in Veronica, the Hulkbuster suit, and he just goes to town. Because the Hulkbuster suit, that's what it does. It beats the Hulk up, it's gonna beat fire minions. So he's gonna go for it. And all this time, Wanda using her magic and her formidability. We don't forget what we got to see her do in like all the other movies at some point, where arguably she could have killed Thanos if he didn't call for the rain down, right? So here she is fighting Hella. I would say Hella's a formidable force. She's fighting Hella, and Doctor Strange, in the meantime, is using his power like he much did in Endgame to hold back the magma of the volcano and also conjure up a spell. So when he's ready and he has his spell conjured, their plan is Wanda puts herself in a position to make it look like Hella gets the upper hand, and Wanda uses her reality warping ability with her mind to make Hella think she's winning. And in that, Hella gets sloppy, and Doctor Strange uses his sling ring with this with the with the you know the portal sling portal, basically, drops Hella into the volcano, much like your story, drops her into the volcano, casts a spell on her. Wanda has the mind warping thing going on, so Hella doesn't even realize what's happening to her because she thinks that she's winning this fight. She's in the volcano, casts a spell on her. He uses a timestone to bring the volcano back in time to before Hella developed it. So now Hella is there's no volcanoes there anymore, there's gonna be no eruption, everybody's safe. Hella is now trapped in hardened magma with a spell on her to be stuck in a time loop where in her mind she thinks that she's won. Because I feel like we can't kill Hella. And why I say that is because we have no proof in the MCU that we can kill Hella. So in my mind, how do you subdue such a person? And if she's stuck in magma with the time loop thing going on, or with the spell that she has on her from you know Doctor Strange, and that spell is what keeps that mind-warping ability that Wanda did to her continuously repeating itself, then Hella is in a constant state of she won. So now you have a villain that in her mind is ruling the nine realms. So she's not gonna think of a way to get out unless she figures out eventually that you know she's in some mind warp. But as of right now, we're pretty safe. Volcano's gone, everybody's looking good, Iron Man gets to do some wise cracks.

SPEAKER_01 1:59:10

I think that makes for a good story. Wow. Wow, wow, wow, guys. So uh I gotta I I'll say something about yours.

SPEAKER_03 1:59:28

Go ahead. Yes, yes. I gave I gave you a plus and a negative point for Spider-Man. A plus point is I love the idea of him flying around and her just not being able to get him. I think that's very smart. Um, the negative is two things, really. Okay. He really can't do anything to her, really, other than that. And I would argue Tony, if a situation came about where something needed to be figured out right now, I think Tony's smarter than Peter in that spot, in that sense. I think Peter's smart and he could figure it out, but I get in from what we have in MCU so far, it really only seems like after the fact can Peter figure it out. When Tony comes up with stuff like right now, you know what I mean? So I feel like if you need someone to come up with a scenario or something to do right now, I feel like Tony kind of takes the point on that side of it. Although I do love the idea of Spider-Man being there. I think that's a cool idea. Um, I just think he's in a lot of danger, you know. I gave you double points on Wanda because I picked Wanda. Yeah. I just wish you'd have gone all the way with her and did the mind warp. User. Yeah. Like, and I feel like you're almost underutilizing her. I think she's way more powerful than than you're even giving her credit. Yeah, I'm age of all training her. You really, you really kind of did. You know what I mean? Not to be mean. Like it's not to be mean. Because but you gotta remember what the Wanda was doing. If we think of Wanda from everything we know, she's She's formidable. If there's anyone gonna give Phoenix a hard time, who's it gonna be, right? It's gonna be her. Yeah. You know, and the only reason the Phoenix wins, because it's a Phoenix, guys. Um because she wins. And sorry, it's just biased. Yeah, no, it's true. Oh, yeah. And and I do think we need to take into account that uh the volcano, I feel personally, needs to be something that has to be stopped. Although I like your idea that it's just a volcano going off and it's happening. Yeah, but I feel like your volcano doesn't have a purpose other than it's there.

SPEAKER_01 2:01:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:01:27

When my I feel like with mine, the volcano is the weapon the hell is using. Yep. You know what I'm saying? And I think that kind of makes it. I think that I think if anything, that makes that a little more interesting and putting new Asgard in danger continues a storyline from before as well. And that sucker on the wall, look at that. Wish the cameras could pick it up. What is oh, that's what I heard of. Oh, it's just one of those stinker bugs. Yeah. He's just big, he's like the size of a corner. Okay, sorry guys. I thought I just saw a monster over Sammy's shoulder. I've been watching too many creature features. Um gonna touch you. Yeah. But I mean, but like I said, I think yours is solid though. I that would be a great what-if episode. I think both of ours would make great what-if episodes. I yeah, honestly. To be honest with you. Uh I I gave you two pluses, by the way. Sorry, not to interrupt, but on the Monica thing, because I think power-wise, you picked a real good one. You know, other than just being powerful though, and not just going hardcore, though, I'm not sure, you know. Although, yeah, oh, you did say she saved. That makes sense. So I think that you picked a very good character for that, though. So I wouldn't I got no problems there.

SPEAKER_00 2:02:35

So I I don't have, I honestly will have to tell you, I'm so blown away right now by how much in-depth and thought you put through for this thing to the point where I'm like, I am at a loss for words. You gotta step it up. Yes, it is. You like it? Wow, yeah, yeah. So I'm I'm just gonna skip and go right to our likely scores for each of us. And I'll let you give yours for mine because you can. I I wrote mine down as a percentage point, like 100% win, zero percent win, fifty-fifty percent, you know, or seventy-five percent, like you could win, but you know, there's caveats, you know, things like that.

SPEAKER_01 2:03:18

So I think I have a number for yours.

SPEAKER_03 2:03:24

But see, I like yours though. Uh I I do I I I have to tell you, I do wish you utilized a volcano though, is more than just a volcano. Yeah. So I'm gonna give you a good solid of 48%.

SPEAKER_01 2:03:37

Okay. 48% of success.

SPEAKER_03 2:03:41

Yeah, because uh unfortunately I think well, no, I'll give you a 60% success because you do have Wanda and Monica, and I think Monica might be the one that really puts it over the 50%. But the problem is I can't go higher than 60 because I just don't see at a certain point Spider-Man is just not needed anymore. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. As much as I like him in it, it just he just doesn't seem formidable for this.

SPEAKER_00 2:04:07

You know. I well, the characters that you picked, very good characters. That's why I feel like I underdid this guy. So I didn't cook this guy full the way all the way through. I exceeded my expectations with this. This is really cool.

SPEAKER_03 2:04:21

Um you like that I when I picked Doctor Strange was because he's got the timestone. So turning that volcano back in time.

SPEAKER_00 2:04:28

What I liked about it is yes, you picked very good, formidable heroes, but you matched it with the power set for Hella and also told an epic story in doing so, which is a lot more than I was even thinking about when I was doing this. So I was I was approaching it from the perspective of pick th one character that you think it definitely could beat her, like Wanda, and then two other obscure characters you might not thought could beat her and see what they would do in the mix with her. But the problem is I underestimated the villain because we only got Hella once in the MCU, and let me tell you, she she basically she won. If it wasn't for Ragnarok happening, she won. Oh, that's what they conceded. Thor, as powerful as he is, he was no match for his older sister. So that's right, you're I underestimated the power the Hella can actually wield, and in doing so, it was to my detriment because I'm gonna put yours at least an 85% success. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:05:34

Sweet guys. Yeah, so camp's in jail, but new new Asgard is safe.

SPEAKER_00 2:05:40

I love the story you put around it. That's I'm gonna be listening to this over and over again, thinking this is a what-if episode that should have happened, you know.

SPEAKER_03 2:05:47

That is so good. Well, I just I thought, you know, when I was doing this, I'm like, you know, I gotta tie it into the MCU somewhat and and kind of build off of it. I thought of the characters and everything they can do. And Iron Man just comes with so much other than himself. Not just as smart, but like he's got Dark and Legion, he's got Veronica. I mean, he's he's just he's ready for anything. You know, I mean, can he take hell on? No, but I wouldn't even have him fighting her. Yeah, that's the thing that I like about this. Yeah, he's he's just doing the minion thing if there is any, but he's there for it and saving people. Because if they fail, at least they can save new Asgard, you know, to the best they can. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:06:23

All right, guys. So I guess the question is for you which of these two scenarios did you give did you like more? Who would you think will have a higher success rate? Myself or my brothers? Let us know in the comments below.

SPEAKER_03 2:06:34

Um, all right, and yeah, just to tag this on for the next time we do this game for next week. I have two games that I want us to do. They're a little shorter than these, but I figured we'll give them a shot. And if maybe if we want to do another game, we'll surprise you with one. We won't even tell you, we'll just show up and do it. So Sammy and I'll talk after the podcast if the two I come up with here to tell you now um we want to do anything more, then we'll just surprise you guys when we get there next week. Okay, but the games basically are real simple. It's I got this here, and leaning down here, see if I can find them. There we go, got these cups here, y'all. All right, we're gonna auction up. No, I'm kidding. Um so basically it's real simple. I have a cup full of actors names, actors and actresses, about 20 or 30 different ones, and I have a cup full of heroes from the MCU. And what we're gonna do is we're both gonna pick one each out of the actor one, and then one of us is gonna pick one of the hero names, and then next week, whatever actor it is, we tie to that hero. And the idea is to convince each other that your actor would be best for this hero and give them a new backstory, a new origin in that way. You know what I'm trying to say? Does that make sense? So this is we're so we both get a different actor, okay, but the same hero.

SPEAKER_00 2:07:55

And we have to convince each other that my actor is better at portraying this character than yours. Correct. By by also coming up with a new backstory for them. New this new backstory for the character? 100%. Do we touch upon the origin of the character in the comics? You can use no and only from the movies.

SPEAKER_03 2:08:16

You can use and you can use you can use the existing character as well. Be creative, have fun with it. Okay. You know, so say you get Anthony Hopkins as Iron Man. You know? So come up with a reason why he's Anthony Hopkins as Iron Man, and you could be like, what if Iron Man's dad was Iron Man first? You know. Oh, okay. That's just an example. You know what I mean? Like, I'm not sure what we're gonna pull. But then we just kind of see who comes up with a better version of that and go from there.

SPEAKER_00 2:08:44

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 2:08:45

All right.

SPEAKER_01 2:08:46

All right, so let's just pull and then let me make sure this is the right cup. Yeah. So this one's the actress. I'm gonna go ahead and reach in and pull one out first. This could get weird. Oh my god. And then I'm gonna pull. Oh my god. I wrote these. Yeah, we can we can tell each other now.

SPEAKER_03 2:09:16

Yeah. Um, so let's I have Al Bacchino. I do this to myself, folks. I have Russell Crowe.

SPEAKER_01 2:09:26

Oh no, you had a good one!

SPEAKER_03 2:09:29

So now it's gonna matter on who is a hero. Who the hero is? Oh my gosh. It's gonna be a weird episode. It's gonna be one.

SPEAKER_01 2:09:37

Okay. Oh my gosh, watch it be. Mr. Fantastic. Wow. Okay. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 2:09:50

Russell Crowe is Mr. Fantastic. Ooh. That'd be interesting.

SPEAKER_03 2:09:56

So we'll prepare for next week for that one. Okay. And then the only other game, guys, we're gonna do two of them. I don't know which uh this one here is the El Pacino. What was I thinking? Okay, I wanna put that. The only other one is I got two names here. I picked them at random earlier, and they're two characters, and they're specifically heroes. And you're gonna pick one of them. I'm gonna pick one, and then we're gonna have the option one at a time to switch if we want to. Because what we need to do is argue a prompt that I have on my phone that I haven't read yet.

SPEAKER_00 2:10:35

And we don't reveal who they are, we just look at them and say if we want to do it.

SPEAKER_03 2:10:39

If we want to switch first, and then we'll reveal what it all is, and then we'll get that.

SPEAKER_00 2:10:44

Okay. All right, all right.

SPEAKER_01 2:10:45

So go ahead and complete random here. Okay. So we'll go with you first. Would you like to switch with me, not knowing who? Yes. You are sir. Okay. Okay. All right. And I am choosing to not switch back. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 2:11:17

So the prompt here is I pulled this up using a little bit of AI, guys. I know. Go screw yourself, it's okay. Um, they're gonna take over the world anyway. Uh yeah. So the prompt is for this, oh no. Oh wow. Can we switch back? No, I'm kidding. Um, so the prompt is pull it up here. There it is. We we need to prove to each other that our character that we picked is more of a villain than a hero.

SPEAKER_01 2:11:49

Oh. Oh, yours is easy. Okay. Is it? I think that's easy.

SPEAKER_00 2:11:56

But this will be fun. That's this we're only Using MCU references, right? Only in the movies, yeah. Oh, both of these guys are easy.

SPEAKER_03 2:12:05

So I I got Iron Man, just so I got Hawkeye. Okay. This is not easy. I Iron Man is a villain. I mean, there's things about him that are gonna be arguable that we could I can I can have fun with, but the dude sacrificed his life. Okay, I don't want to give you ammo already. Like it's really so all right. All right, so that'll be interesting, guys. Let's see how that turns out next week. And uh, like I said, if if we think these are too short, then we'll have another one for you. If not, then we're just gonna go from there. We got a big one next week, though. It's Cat America Civil War, so being a little shorter might be the best way to go.

SPEAKER_00 2:12:39

Yeah, honestly, that I think that's a good idea because we're gonna be talking a lot about that. Yeah, speaking of which, what are we going into next now?

SPEAKER_03 2:12:46

Oh, next, here where are we? Geez God, I'm not being okay. Next, we're going to our main event, guys. We're gonna be doing our retrospective of Ant-Man. Man, I'm excited. This is a fun one. I think we're gonna have a good time. Be nice, easy going, maybe less arguments. Might have a couple. You know, I try to I try to have one or two just for fun, but I think we're gonna have a good time with it, guys. All right, here we go. Hello, everybody. Welcome to the main event. We're doing our March to Doomsday. It's our retrospective of Ant-Man. It's exciting. This was a fun watch. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:13:28

Oh, this is this is gonna be really cool.

SPEAKER_04 2:13:30

I'm excited.

SPEAKER_03 2:13:32

All right, so want me to give you a little bit history breakdown. Why don't you give us some history back down on the making of this movie and how we got to it, and then we'll get into act one.

SPEAKER_00 2:13:42

All right, guys. So the the history behind the film, Ant-Man 1. It was released on July 17th, 2015. The main cast include Paul Rudd, Michael Douglas, Evangeline Lilly, Corey Stoll, and Michael Pena. Alright, so the journey to Marvel Studios' first Ant-Man film was one of the longest and most complicated development stories in MCU history. The project actually predated the MCU itself, with filmmaker Edward Edgar Wright first pitching a movie centered on Ant-Man to Marvel in the early 2000s. Years before Iron Man launched the franchise in 2008. Wright spent nearly a decade developing the concept, creating test footage that impressed Marvel and helped secure the project's place on the studio's release slate. By the time filming was finally approaching in 2014, however, the MCU had evolved dramatically. Marvel was deep into phase two, having released Iron Man III, Thor the Dark World, Captain America The Winter Soldier, Guardians of Galaxy, and Avengers Age of Ultron was nearing completion. As the MCU became increasingly interconnected, tensions reportedly grew between Wright's standalone vision and Marvel's desire for a greater franchise integration. Just weeks before filming was scheduled to begin, Wright and Marvel parted ways over creative differences, sending shockwaves throughout the industry. Many fans feared the film was doomed then, as Wright's distinctive style had been the project's driving force for years. Marvel quickly hired Peyton Reed to direct, while Adam McKay and Paul Rudd helped revise the screenplay. Despite the last minute leadership change, Reed maintained, I'm sorry, Reed retained much of Wright's visual DNA, comedic tone, and heist movie structure. Which I do believe was a saving grace for this movie, honestly. Filming began in 2014 of August in San Francisco, Atlanta, and Pinewood Atlanta Studios. At the time, Paul Rudd was best known for comedy roles and was considered an unconventional choice for a superhero lead, though Marvel believed his charm and relatability were perfect for Scott Lang. Rudd surprised many by undergoing an intense fitness transformation while also helping rewrite portions of the script. Michael Douglas was brought Michael Douglas, sorry, brought major prestige as Hank Pym while Evangeline Lilly was coming off of her success of Lost and the Hobbit films, and was already being positioned for a larger MCU future. Meanwhile, Corey Stoll joined as Darren Cross slash Yellowjacket. Fun production facts include Marvel's extensive use of practical macrophotography to help make everyday objects appear gigantic, the creation of highly detailed oversized sets to sell Ant-Man's shrinking perspective, and the innovative visual effects used to de-age Michael Douglas by decades for the film's opening sequence, one of Marvel's earliest and most impressive uses of the digital de-aging technology. Another notable chain challenge was convincing audiences to take Ant-Man seriously after years of jokes about the character's powers. Marvel leaned into that skepticism by embracing the film's comedic heist tone rather than trying to make Ant-Man appear overly serious. When Ant-Man was released in 2015, it exceeded many expectations. Critics praised its lighter tone, humor, creativity, and Paul Rudd's performance, viewing it as a refreshing palette cleanser after the massive scale of Avengers Age of Ultron. The film earned approximately 83% on Rotten Tomatoes from the critics, and around 85% from audiences. Financially, it grossed roughly $519 million worldwide against a production budget estimated of $130 to $170 million. While it wasn't Marvel's biggest box office hits, it was clear success and proved that MCU could turn even one of its smallest and most obscure heroes into a viable franchise. Perhaps most impressively, the film survived nearly a decade of development, multiple delays, a last-minute director change, extensive script rewrites, and widespread fan concern to become one of Marvel's most charming and unexpectedly influential successes, introducing concepts like the quantum realm that will later become critical to the events of Avengers Endgame. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03 2:18:36

Alright. Nice. So I'm going to read the official synopsis here before we jump into Act One. So con man Scott Lane, equipped with a suit that allows him to shrink in size while increasing in strength, teams up with his mentor, Dr. Hank Pym, together they must protect the secrets of the technology from new menacing threats and pull off a high stakes heist to save the world. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 2:19:07

It's pretty much pretty much suggests. It pretty much is. You know, this is what I'll say just to just to lead into the film is this is this is one of the things that I like about the MCU in particular, is that you're able to take different genres of concepts of um different film inspirations and uh flavors and incorporate them into the MCU. You know, we saw that with um Winter Soldier, with making that kind of a uh political thriller type thing, uh almost a spy-like movie. We see the comic book ensemble with Avengers stuff, but adding this flavor, the heist um type of a film to the MCU, that's riveting. That's kind of cool.

SPEAKER_03 2:20:00

Yeah, and it's perfect for Ant-Man because it's the going smaller thing. Mm-hmm. You know, it's like that's kind of like fits real well with uh that kind of style, I would say. You know, the tone fits well with that with the the way that's going.

SPEAKER_00 2:20:14

Yeah. Yeah, I agree. I think that this is really, really cool that they were able to pull this movie off and everything. And it sounds like the a lot of the behind-the-scenes drama um it it plagued the movie, but like I said earlier, in the midst of reading the history, I think they made the best decision and keeping because it was only like weeks before they started actually filming, of keeping the everything the same mostly, just little little tweaks here or there. Nothing that you can see a director like a Josh Whedon type person that when they come in and they only have two weeks, excuse me, they're rushing and they're overhauling the whole thing because they want their specific brand or their specific taste. And that when a movie is still set to release and they're still great green lining it and going, there's no more delays, that can cause danger. Yeah, oh yeah, for sure. So, anyways, with that said, let's get into act one. All right. Do you want me to read it or do you want to read it? Oh, read it. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 2:21:13

So act one, guys. Recently, we recently released from prison. Scott Lane is trying to rebuild his life and reconnect with his daughter. After struggling to find legitimate work, he pulled into a he pulled into a burglary job. Burger burglary. Oh wow, that's a tough one for me, guys. I might as well be speaking Japanese right now. Into a where you steal stuff job that leads him to the home of Dr. Hank Pym. Instead of a typical crime, Scott steals what he thinks is a motorcycle suit, but turns out to be the Ant-Man suit. Hank, along with his daughter Hope Van Dyne, has intentionally set Scott up. They revealed to Scott that Hank was the original Ant-Man and that Scott had been chosen to carry on the legacy to stop Hank's former protege, Darion Cross, who was attempting to rebucate shrinking technology.

SPEAKER_01 2:22:09

Mm-hmm. Yep, that literally is what happened in the first act there. And wow. Yeah. What a setup.

SPEAKER_00 2:22:19

What a way to start off. What did you like about the first one? What do you think worked? So I got a lot of stuff written down here.

SPEAKER_01 2:22:26

Um first of all, that beginning of them going back in time and seeing Hank with uh with Tony's dad with Mr.

SPEAKER_03 2:22:42

Stark, that what a great idea. And you know, I got I have seen a lot of movies where they do the de-aging thing. And for this being like the early on of it, that's it's still like almost the best de-aging I've seen in a movie. There's some good ones out there, but this one, like honestly, you I if you weren't told it, I wouldn't have thought it. You know, because Michael Douglas is a specific kind of actor.

SPEAKER_01 2:23:10

And he has a lot of expression in his face. They nailed it in this de-aging thing. It's fantastic. It's one of my favorite things.

SPEAKER_03 2:23:19

Yeah. So that to me, this had a good start. How do you feel about that start? Because I thought maybe we'll just kind of there's so much good, to be honest with you. I kind of want to break down a few of them. So let's start with that one. You tell me what your thoughts are on that first opening, and then we'll go to the and I'll tell you my next one.

SPEAKER_00 2:23:35

You know, what a way to tie that into the MCU at large. Oh, a hundred percent. To make him Hank Pym, if they're gonna do the Ant-Man film the way that they did it, where it's not an origin on Hank Pym, more so it's supposed to be an origin on Scott Lang, but yet you can't do Scott Lang without cementing the legacy of who Hank Pym is. And to do that for your first film of introducing both of these characters, this was the way to do it. This I loved seeing the tri-skeleton there, the the SHIELD headquarters as it's being developed, seeing uh an aged-up Haley Atwell, who was the founder of Shield that we know of from the movies, and just seeing how he, as Hank Pym, interacted with Tony's dad, and how he was at the ground level of building up SHIELD. So at that point, this was the 1980s, so Shield had been around for quite some time, and now they're building up this prestigeness of Shield, that's why everything's being constructed. It was so, so really I gotta tell you, that is one of my favorite openings so far of one of the MC of the MCUs. Not the best, of course, but for setting up this character and for just an opening, like we're gonna sock you right into the MCU. This was perfect.

SPEAKER_03 2:24:57

Yeah, it it definitely is a good kickstart, yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_00 2:25:00

It was it was short, but not too short. It it nailed everybody who they were, and it established Hank Pym miss this guy that was there from the beginning, and he has some clout to him, and that was really oh yes, that was one of the things I liked, I think, most of that whole thing is that they kept him comic accurate for his temper. And I'm so happy that they did because they easily didn't have to do that if they wanted to be a little more PC about it. No, that that that is how Hank Pym operates, yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_03 2:25:32

So, anyways, and I also like this introduction to Scott when he's in the in the prison and he's fighting, and it's like then that you realize, oh, it's just a what do you say to him? Because you guys got weird goodbye rituals, you know. But like, yeah, Hank just shows right off the bat that this guy, this character himself. First of all, guys, Paul Rudd's charming as hell. Like, he's fantastic for this part. I've always liked Paul Rudd. I'm a very I'm an intense stickler about comedy. I'm not saying there's good and bad comedy out there. I'm sorry, I will never argue with people about what they like because it's taste, all of its taste. I personally am very particular about what makes me laugh. I'm not a big Will Farrell fan, and I know that him and Paul are good friends. I'm not a big Adam Sandler fan. You know, I'm there's certain people that have become characters that are always that character to me in their movies. Paul, though, has done probably most of my favorite comedies are like in the 80s and early 90s or 70s, even to be honest with you guys. But Paul, though, he's been in the last three comedies that he's done of recent, he's been in of my favorites. The I Love You Man is a fantastic movie. He is so funny in that, but it's because he's really good at playing the straight guy, this the straight guy. Not us straight. I mean, he can be wherever he wants, but he's good at playing us straight, this you know, the straight guy, with like being awkward at the same time. And he pulls and he brings a seriousness role to this that I was surprised to see, to be honest. Um, but like, yeah, how charming is he? And he his timing is perfect. You can tell his hands are on the script of this too, with how they talk back and forth. And I just it also shows his character, the character in this of Scott, where he's he can be friends with all types of different kinds of people, including these real hardened criminals in prison, right? Like I enjoy that. And then I like him getting out, and there's Louise, who is might be one of my favorite characters in the MCU.

SPEAKER_00 2:27:36

Oh my gosh, right? So good. Oh, yeah. No, I I echo uh everything that you said. I love the the little things that you notice that maybe you didn't catch it the first time around when you're watching it, but as you're watching, you're paying attention more, and you realize that the footage that Darren is playing is of uh when Hank Pym goes to goes for the special invitation to see what Darren is going to be presenting and all that stuff, and he hits him with the the top secret footage of him as Ant-Man, and then it shows a shield logo in the beginning, and then it dawns on you because it never did until I was doing my second rewatch of this movie. And this is so many years of I've watched this movie how many times, and only now is it clicking in my head that the only reason they have access to that video is because Black Widow dumped it all on the internet in Winter Soldier. I and I never put those two and two together. How did they find out about this? Oh, that's right. Shield secrets, hydra secrets are now in the world, and what a way to set that up here. That's so good. That is that is genius level thinking for like this. Is before Russo Brothers, I mean, Russo Brothers are there, like when they're soldier-wise, but this is before you had what you would think of. Oh, I make sense that that director thought of that or that writer thought of that. They didn't have that yet. So to be able to pull that out and put that in, it's one very so insignificant looking that you could just not think about it. But then you think about it and you're like, holy smokes! They referenced back one of the greatest MCU movies they ever did in establishing the narrative of this story of getting that technology. That's so smart. It's so smart.

SPEAKER_03 2:29:22

I'm with you, and that's not the only time this movie does that, right? And I think that what bro what really stuck out to me when I, as you're saying, it hit me too, more so. I think after um Age of Ultron, they knew that they can't play it as loosey-goosey as they did because of Age of Ultron. Because I mean, no matter what you say, I do know that they saw those things, they saw those problems. They must have.

SPEAKER_00 2:29:48

No, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:29:49

I think that this is the beginning of the golden era of the MCU. And this Ant-Man movie and on for a while, and I'll let you know when it stops. But right now, pin this down. I think this movie was the start of the momentum and the smartness of these movies just get better and better and better as they go. I mean, a couple have a little hits and misses here and there, but nothing like nothing like some of the stumbles I had in the beginning that you forgive because we're just building this, right? Yep. And definitely nothing like the stumbles later on that we can't forgive because now you've had 20 years to figure it out. Yeah, right. So, like, I think that this is where the beginning of this era starts. Of how how this is when Marvel, man, I'm telling you, when At-Man comes out at this time, Marvel's like peak, mountaintop. The whole movie industry is like, shit, it's over. You got people like you got people like Martin Scorsese. It's it's not cinema, please. You know, they're begging people not to watch these movies because every everybody's watching them, right? Like they're all all in, you know. Yep. So in this movie solidified that for them. Anyone that did come out of Ultron going, you know, that was good, but it was a little bit of a letdown. They went into this going, Yeah, MC was still good. Yeah. You know, this movie helped that, you know, and if that gives you any kind of hint of how we feel overall, probably, guys. This is definitely more of a positive movie today, which is nice. There's there's faults and there's issues, but it's I mean, we're going the right direction now from some of the missteps of anything previous, which like I said is forgivable because it's world building.

SPEAKER_00 2:31:23

Yeah. Oh, I come I completely agree. I mean, there's there are scenes of not just in the movie, but in this first act that is that makes you think this is what I want Marvel to be, you know.

SPEAKER_03 2:31:37

I love a movie where they have a montage of a heist coming together, and this movie does so good at it. Yeah. And in Louise explaining things, I might be, I think that should be the Avengers' last Doomsday trailer. I think you should give us a teaser trailer, give us a trailer one, and then trailer two, which is the last doomsday trailer, is just him explaining the MCU from Iron Man to Doomsday in like two minutes. Oh my gosh, that would be awesome. Get all the actors together to like just do like their mouthing, like they're talking, and just let him do his thing. Because Michael Penier, what uh I he I've always liked him as an actor, anyways. I think people sleep on him, like well, not you know, I mean, they sleep on his his ability. I think he's way underrated as an actor. I think he's an actor that has had a chance to have an Oscar and has been passed over, um, which which sucks because I really think he's got he's got the goods. He I forget how funny he can be, though. He's a very funny person. Yeah. And his facial expressions are like dead on when he's in the car after he picks him up and he's just giving him bad news after bad news, but he's just smiling through it, like this. You can't, nothing can bring him down, right?

SPEAKER_02 2:32:56

And he's just like, oh yeah, no, yeah, that's yeah. And he's like, Yeah, but yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:33:00

It's like, oh, he's yeah, it is just awesome. It's just awesome. I love it so much.

SPEAKER_00 2:33:06

Yeah, no, it's as that's it's really good. He's he he's such a great character. Um, for this, I would say the um just to just to continue on, the the other thing that I liked about this act, and I will jump right into it as my standout moment for the act, honestly. Okay, yeah. Um is Scott breaking into Hank's house. There is a level of creative takes, or I want to say craftsmanship, that's um Paul Rudd puts into Scott Lang to d perform this heist. And I do not recall, and I know in our retrospective, we're gonna be seeing a couple more things of Ant Man, but I do not recall any of his. Future stuff being as intellectually smart as he is in this movie. And I don't know if that's a disservice to the character because of the movies. I when we get to those movies and we could be able to talk about it in full on retrospective view, I'll totally bring it up there. But this is exactly what I wished we saw of Scott Lang throughout the whole MCU. And I think that that does a disservice to the character himself. Because this movie highlights what why he why do we care about this guy? It's not just because he's a a man that lost that much time with his daughter because he did something bad that happens all the time. And that's part of the emotional strengths of this movie. But why do we as an audience care that this guy succeeds or does stuff and we get to see what his skills are? What sets him apart? Yeah, what yeah, what sets him apart from your typical burglar? And it shows that even without the suit, he can he could break into some places. Like Hank Pym's place was they made it very clear this place is a no-joke place on the break into it. And yeah, Hank Pym says he let him to a degree, but at the same time, he was testing him to see how he would have to do it.

SPEAKER_03 2:35:15

Open the doors for him. He was exactly letting him as and he wasn't turning him in.

SPEAKER_00 2:35:19

Yes, that's you're exactly right. That's what that's what Hank Pym did. He he was watching him do it, but he wasn't stopping him from doing it. Right, right. He if on if anything, if he didn't watch him do it, he would have done it anyway still. And it was perfect. It was like a masterpiece in doing something like that. And so I it's my standout moment because it really shows the high level of intelligence he has. That like I said, I don't I don't recall at this time the rest of the MCU, he has that.

SPEAKER_03 2:35:47

But yeah, you know, I I think there's moments where we see him thinking on his feet real fast that work in in other movies. Uh I'm with you though, I 100%. I don't know why they utilize this version of him more even in his own movies, let alone any of the other stuff. I would argue that in Endgame during the big battle scene when they're all like, oh, the time machine's gone. He goes, wait a minute, that's not the only one we got. That that's something that that's his thinking quick like thing comes in. But it's so that's so minute you you kind of forget that, right? Yeah, like the scene it's on right now. This happens to us. We're talking about it and it's on. But like he it's the guy's like a spider monkey, like he is jumping all over the place, man.

SPEAKER_00 2:36:31

He knows how to cr climb up the side of the uh average. This shows he's not just a criminal, he's a good thief, and plug in technology in order to open up a door, like the heck I really feel bad they didn't utilize that more in the other movies.

SPEAKER_03 2:36:47

It makes me wonder is because sometimes you think, what was he doing in that movie? Not a lot, you know what I mean? In some of the others, and so maybe we'll feel differently, and I just we just have forgot some of the stuff in the other ones. And we're just like, oh yeah, they did do a little there. I think in the next one, there's still some smartness out of him, but it's quantum mania, you don't get it, you know, and you don't get it in any of the Avengers stuff. You know, it's like he's a pivotal part in a lot of it sometimes, but most of it's jokey.

SPEAKER_00 2:37:16

I was just gonna say he's great for the comic relief, and that's great for his character, but at the same time, I like you said earlier, I love seeing the seriousness he has that he could portray, and just this intelligence.

SPEAKER_03 2:37:27

It's like yeah, I want to see that put that that news more, yeah. Yeah, yeah. But we'll talk about this movie because this movie did it right. This movie gave us stuff that we we want to see out of it, you know. And yeah. So um Yeah. My my standout moment, I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna say though it's still that opening scene. That is um Yeah, I gotta give it to that just because that, like I said, I'm I'm a big Michael Douglas fan. If he didn't cost $7,000 to get a signature for when we go to Rhode Island, I would have loved to get his, but there's no way I could pay. I can't look at my bills and my bank account and think about paying him $300 for an autograph. Sorry. That and I'll be honest with you, this isn't the movie I'd get his autograph for. So not that there's anything wrong with this, but I I I love the Ghost of the Darkness and his role in that, and it'd be such a niche kind of movie to get it from from him. And but take your pick of Michael Douglas movies, guys, because he's just great. And he's great in this.

SPEAKER_00 2:38:29

Oh, I perfect casting from him. Oh my gosh, yes, yeah. So um well is there anything that didn't work for you in this first act? Yeah, I gotta be honest with you.

SPEAKER_03 2:38:37

I'm not a big fan of our villain, you know. Um although he's not he's not bad. What I say this didn't work, but maybe it does work in its own way, and I'm just misreading it. But when he's showing them like his plans with Yellow Jacket, and it's going through like all those like uh images of what it's what it's doing to people and all that, if it doesn't scream like Marvel villain, it's like people getting assassinated and like everything illegally you can think of that someone could do with this technology, he's basically telling everybody he's going to do. You know, and part of me is kind of like this is kind of silly. It felt a little silly, but I believe the guy's motives, you know, his scene where he kills Frank. That's great. I believe his motives at that point, because then he is a very cold, calculated person. Then obviously they make it clear that whatever he's messing around with is kind of changing the way he's thinking too. So maybe he will later on. I excuse some of this mustache twirling uh, you know, that he's got going on. But when you first meet him and stuff, like who the hell is okay with this? No wonder they're giving him a hard time because you're like, you're telling us all these things you want to do with this, and you're assassinating people, and it's like, geez guy, this is the kind of crap the world sucks at. Like, it's not you're not really helping anybody, you know, when you say these kind of things and act this kind of way about it. With that said, I think the yellow jacket design is awesome.

SPEAKER_00 2:40:09

Oh, yeah, it it is awesome. I think it's really cool. That is real cool. I to your comment of the the the villain, if he's uh how do I say, would you say a little mediocre-ish or just a little just comes off as obvious. Too obvious, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:40:26

Like even when you're even when it's like before, like because this is the part where he's supposed to win you over, swoon you a little bit, right? Like even in Iron Man 2 or uh Iron Man 3, I mean, when you meet the guy, he's doing the brain with and showing Pepper the brain and all that. There's a little bit to him where you're kind of like, oh, this guy's, you know, I can see why you'd fall for that guy. And and this dude's like blatantly not a good guy. Like as soon as you see him, oh yeah, you're the bad guy. Like, there you are. You know, it's like so for me, it could have been they could have been a little more, it could have been a little more not as obvious that this is that guy, right? Because this is pretty much Iron Man again, right? This whole storyline is in a way, it's got that Iron Man-esque feel to it.

SPEAKER_00 2:41:15

Yeah, I would even say like Iron Man One, you're talking about. I would even say that one, you kind of liked the bad guy until you find out he's a bad guy that he's really bad. Well, you remember our retro on that.

SPEAKER_03 2:41:26

I loved Jeff Bridges. In fact, it was heartbreaking that he was bad, which is why we always had that problem with how bad he was, was almost the problem. It'd have been better if he had his arm twisted than the fact that he was the way he was. Yeah. Because it worked better when you thought he's your friend. Yeah. Because when he turns, you're like, oh, I feel that, you know. So it I think it would have worked better. But that's just it. We already talked about that. This guy, though, is so obvious. Like, even from the start, right from the start, you know, it's like I don't would have never worked with him. He'd have never been my protege. Because you know, yeah, you're like the spawn of Satan. Look at you. Just look at him. Like, there's no the I just don't there, there could have been a little more nuance to that, I think. I feel the obviousness of that. Although I don't think there was a secret either.

SPEAKER_00 2:42:16

No, there wasn't. And I so for me, I'm fine with him being the obvious villain. Yeah, I agree. I mean, I I agree with you that I do like some of my villains to have a little bit of nuance to it, a little more of a relatability factor, I I guess you would say, or a little bit of a little bit of a little bit more. Well, at least try to trick me a little.

SPEAKER_03 2:42:37

Yeah, you take the because here's the thing, guys. I know that there's this argument out there that villains are harder to create than heroes. I don't think that's true. I think that they overthink this way too much often. There's a I've seen a lot of movies where I've seen a lot of movies, period. And I've seen a lot of movies where you can be a bad person and be still have the nuances of being a person and someone that makes sense. This guy just I I don't I want to know what this guy's like when he's just sitting at home having a drink and not thinking about work. And there's no version of this guy that I can even picture that with. Does that make sense? Yeah, like and now not every villain like that makes sense. Like it all, and then sometimes like I can't picture East Ledger's joker sitting and chilling, you know, because he's probably doing something really weird, you know what I'm saying? Like, yeah, like he's messing around with his paint and stuff like that. Yeah, but but at the same time, though, that works though, for that. That's okay, because we don't, you know, every moment of him on him on screen was dedicated to you understanding where his mind is at, which is chaos, and that's the point. They want that character to feel chaotic. But this my favorite villains, even ones in the MCU, where I could picture a moment of there's a normalcy to this person, but there's what they're doing is wrong and where they're going through. Even Thanos, I saw it with him. We we even saw it when he's picking fruit. You know what I mean? Like it's like we you get this idea of okay, there's still and I think that that's sometimes superhero movies need to remember that. Stop complicating this, make them relatable enough, try to trick me enough, even though it's obvious that's who it's gonna be, because a trailer is probably showing it to anyway, and it's okay, and everybody says he's gotta be the bad guy, right? But at least do something to make it okay. This this guy is still exists in our world. You know, it's you can picture these people being people outside of their villainy that they're doing. They're not all just sitting in a cave thinking about how to take over the world or destroy things. And this guy feels like a dude that goes home and just thinks about destroying things, you know what I mean? Yeah, and it's like and like I don't I like to think that that's not the case though with him because he seems more complicated and and what's her face? Um uh hope is has known him for a little while, and he feels betrayed by her, you know. But there's I didn't feel any kind of connection with them at all. And that that that bothers me, you know what I mean? Like that's something we talk about later on. Almost like he's either so arrogant or naive to Yeah, he's just so darn obvious, you know, and it's like, okay, where's the side of him that made everybody think you weren't gonna be this first? Because you they didn't think this of him this whole time, or you wouldn't have taught him these things, you wouldn't have you wouldn't have put him in the position he's in. You know, so I I think that that's all I feel. And I'm critical about it because I think it's easy. Yeah. Easier. I'm not saying everything's easy, guys, but I do think it's easier than they claim. And I think that filmmakers and people that write fall back on this false sense of do you realize how hard it is to make a villain? Sorry, guys, it's just not. It's not, it's really not hard. You know, you find that motive, you find that reason, you go the opposite direction that a good person goes with it, and you and you just you give it what that is. I mean, I I can point to a ton of things where the villain is just way better than and there's no reason to be, and they just are. And I think that that's so I am I'm always going to be critical on the villains. You guys can hear me complain about it all the time, which is why I think Christian Bale's villain is perfect. But that but we'll get to that movie, right? Everyone complains, and I'm looking at it like, what are you talking about? It's the most relatable thing you can think of, right? Honestly, yeah. And uh, but anyways, the only other thing about this movie that doesn't work for me a lot of the times is her haircut, man. Oh we she needs she needs to just cut it off. I like it is not a good haircut on that on her.

SPEAKER_00 2:46:54

I'm being nitpicky, I'm you know picking some nits, but I'm glad that they changed her hair for the second movie onward. Oh lordy. I get it that what they're trying to do for this movie really make her very distinctive looking, but it didn't help her at all.

SPEAKER_02 2:47:10

No, it didn't. No, it didn't. Oh, geez.

SPEAKER_03 2:47:14

Oh, all right. But you know we're picking knits when I'm talking about haircuts, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:47:18

Yeah. Oh, yes. Okay, um, so what would you score the first act then? So in this first act, is that when he first puts the suit on, too? Let's see. I'm trying to remember. I mean, just yeah, let's make sure.

SPEAKER_03 2:47:35

Yeah. Yes, yes, he does. I just want to briefly talk about that whole trial by fire. Oh. His first little stint with the suit. Yeah, it's just where we get introduced to what this looks like. Oh. Yeah, we gotta talk about that before we move on because uh one of the big marks I'm gonna say later during our questionnaire thing is the special effects in this movie are fantastic. I like that they use the special effects to do the small things, and everything else is actually more practical. That they have bigger things on the set, or it's just now it's a matter of we're showing up close to feet and we're just showing the small guy. The smartest thing to do is the less special effects, the better. And this movie had a lot of practical feel to it. Even the ant dog at the end had more practical feel to it, and I'm like, yes, this is good. I'm I'm impressed. That impresses me a lot. That's some of the reason why I really like this movie is they're the going small thing. There's some scenes when he's working with the ants and everything, or the CGI is like just so much, but I get it. You have to with those, but these normal, like when he's just running in the bathtub and all that stuff, that is wild-looking stuff.

SPEAKER_00 2:48:40

Yeah, that's a whole sequence of the the water turning on, he's being swept up in it, goes down the drain, then pops out, then he falls onto carpet, and uh the Lego piece goes up with him, and then he punches his way out, which is so cool because that's how they explain it, is that he he maintains or amplifies his strength, but also gets super, super small. Oh my gosh. And then the whole the the club in the house in the apartment. There's a full-on club in this apartment building, guys. Like, where's that invitation, anyways? That's crazy. That it's even better.

SPEAKER_03 2:49:15

Is my my other second favorite scene is when he breaks out of jail.

SPEAKER_00 2:49:19

Oh, oh yeah. So good. Like it's so awesome. When it does a countdown, the ants are doing the countdown. That is so cool.

SPEAKER_03 2:49:26

This is so it's very smart.

SPEAKER_00 2:49:28

Yes, it's smart. So yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:49:30

Yeah, I'm glad I give this a score, I score at seven. I mean it's seven, solid seven. I I put it as an eight out of ten. Yeah, that's that's good.

SPEAKER_00 2:49:39

Okay. Um, let's see. Uh want me to read the second. Yep. Act. All right, so act two, guys. Scott begins training under Hank and Hope, learning to control the Ant-Man suit and communicate with ants. Hope, however, struggles with resentment toward her father for keeping her out of field missions. Scott undergoes a series of comedic and dangerous training exercises, slowly growing into the role for of hero. Meanwhile, Cross successfully recreates the shrinking technology, planning to sell it as a weapon. Scott's personal life also comes into focus, especially his desire to be a better father to his daughter. The stakes rise as Scott prepares for a final infiltration of Cross technologies. Okay. Okay. So what worked for you in this act?

SPEAKER_03 2:50:29

I love montages and time spent on somebody training and learning something.

SPEAKER_01 2:50:38

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03 2:50:39

And that's what makes Iron Man good when they do that stuff, and it works well in this. Watching him do figure out how to use this suit and what it means, and and Hank going all in on them. They go all in on trying to explain it to us so we understand it and liking it. And I I love these training things. My funniest moments in this, actually, I'll save it for later. But I love it, it's so good. Yeah. I like it when he introduces it to his friends, to Louise, and then, dude, I don't freak out or nothing. You know what I mean? He's gone and goes, Well, that's a great trick, and then he freaks out. This is so funny. It's hilarious, and it's great. And I'm a little over well, we'll talk about that in a few minutes. Let's get through the stuff we like because it's so good. Yeah, I love it. Uh I uh to me, the training montage and all that's great. I also love that one of the things that they had to go steal in order for this ice to work ended up being at Avengers compound.

SPEAKER_00 2:51:36

Oh, that whole thing is gold. It's my my favorite Falcon moments. Yeah. It's just one of my honestly, it's another great way of not only timestamping where this is, because we literally just saw the Avengers Mansion get built in the last movie, and now there he goes. It's it and also Hank thinks this is an old Stark building, and his papers show that. And then you see like the Google images actually of what it is, and you're like, Oh, wait a minute. Oh, wait a minute. You gotta there, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, abort, abort, abort, and he's like, I'm just gonna go in, we're doing it. That that whole scene is probably one of my favorite scenes, not only of this movie, but mainly of this act. Yes, is it's Falcon is hilarious, tic-tac, I think that's what he calls him, and then going inside his suit and making it malfunction. That's it is so cool. That is, yeah, one of my favorite Anthony Mackey moments is Falcon too, is this and he and and and Scott's so proud because he's like, I had fought an Avenger and lived like he's just so I I love how he he introduces himself to him. He's like, I'm Scott Lang Ant-Man, and then Hope's like, Did he just say he's Scott Lang Ant-Man? And he's like, We're doomed. Hilarious, yeah. Perfect. Oh my gosh, pulled off so well, yeah. Um, did you have any more, or do you want me to say some of my yeah, what's some of yours? I'll piggyback off of yours. So yeah, I I wrote down that Avengers scene, that Avengers mansion scene. That is really cool. Uh, and I agree with you for the training montage. Oh, yeah. Uh that's one of the things I really loved about the Iron Man movies. All three of them had it, and it's I can I am the type of person that loves to see, and like you said, they explain it to you how the technology is working as you're seeing it happen. I could watch that whole thing like over and over again. It is so cool. And then he's learning about the different types of ants and what they do. Then he's like, I'm naming you Ant Tony. That's so it's so cool how they did all that.

SPEAKER_03 2:53:45

Well, he's got such a heart, too. You know, yeah, they're not just numbers to him. Like exactly. I kind of like that about Scott.

SPEAKER_00 2:53:51

Yeah, no, I love that. And I want to say that one of my favorite moments, and um, it's it's in here, it's what worked for me, and I also wrote it down as my best character moment for act two, myself personally, is Hank revealing to Hope what actually happened to her mom. Because that's why she has all this resentment against him. He would not talk about it. You could tell he got so deeply disturbed from the beginning of the movie all the way. Janet is a sensitive topic for him. And uh, for all we know, what happened there back in the 80s was exactly the same time that she disappeared or she died. So that was very uh uh fresh right there. So him reacting the way he did to that guy, very understandable. But also, just all these years later, he that's one thing he can never get over, and he d doesn't know how to say it to her, and then finally he says it. And the emotion the Evangeline Lily really brings to the character is so deep. There's not of the MCU so far, there's not many actresses that have been able to really display that to a degree. Okay, and I got that from her, huh? I did you know, and that's one of the things that I I struggle with her.

SPEAKER_03 2:55:13

We that's our difference right now so far.

SPEAKER_00 2:55:15

That's our difference so far. It's okay though.

SPEAKER_03 2:55:17

See it's a minor difference because it doesn't ruin the performance.

SPEAKER_00 2:55:20

She's not bad, but I don't feel it the way you are right now. There are actresses that we've I'm only talking about what we've seen so far in the MCU guys, and some of them I think I can I do agree with that actresses like Liv Tyler and Scarlett Johansson have a hard time showing those emotional depths. You can't you could tell it's there, and especially with their voice and things like that, but the facial expressions don't always match and don't always hit just right. And it could just be that's how they do it. But then there are some actors are like Nalie Portman, you can tell when she physically is in distress or um uh. There, Gwen Paucho. You can she can't she can display that on her face. Evangeline Lily is in that same class to me from that specific scene when she starts crying, and you can tell how she's really playing up that emotional angle. I really felt for her in that moment, and that is really cool to actually be able to experience that in a retrospective for me. And it's just a touching moment. So I I really, really liked that scene. So that's that's my perspective at least.

SPEAKER_03 2:56:37

It's funny because that's my favorite character moment is that with with on Hank's.

SPEAKER_00 2:56:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:56:43

So like it's interesting. The scene to me is equally as good for a different reason. Yeah. You know, so that's interesting.

SPEAKER_00 2:56:51

And I fully agree with the Hank part of it because that's he's being choked up too, just being able to say it and the courage to say it after so long, and why now, and all that stuff. He's giving her a good reason. It's a nice way of seeing Scott being part of that circle there to help heal the two of them. Yeah, yeah. Oh, so good. And I like that they show it too when it happened.

SPEAKER_03 2:57:12

But the special effects and that showing them was real good. And it's really unique. I will say this about this family. They need counseling. Like oh their biggest problem is communication. Because him not telling her this this whole time, her not talking about her feelings, and blah blah blah. And then we get to quantum mania, and 99% of that movie could have been avoided if she'd have just stopped and explained to them a couple things about the dangerous place that they're in. Like, there's wait to wait till we get there, guys. I'm gonna go on a half hour rant about how that dump. Anyways, me stop there, but this family needs to start talking. So someone just needs to tell them this was happened. Just say it. I agree. Like, I fully agree. My gosh. It's like, holy lord, like you guys are a mess. Like you know what? It's a planned mess, though, and they do it on purpose, and I'm glad it's there. I just wish it was as in quantum mania, it's annoying. In this, it works. I agree. Fully agree. This has meaning to it. It's not like she needs to know this. It's more of a character thing about why they're the way the way they are. Yep. When like in quantum mania, it's like, no, why aren't you telling them, right? So a whole different thing. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 2:58:30

Yeah. Honestly, when we get to quantum mania, we're gonna get there, guys. And like my brother said, we're gonna go on our full react because character assassinations are all over the place in that movie, and it's so sad to like it so much too. But anyway. Yeah, but for this movie, why we like the characters to begin with in this movie, phenomenal. Phenomenal acting on both of um Michael Douglas and Evangeline Lily's part for that scene.

SPEAKER_01 2:58:54

So, um what didn't work for you? So follow me here, okay?

SPEAKER_03 2:59:02

Just go for a walk with me, okay, for a second. Okay. What doesn't work for me in this is this is about the time in the movie where there's nothing wrong with any of this stuff. But it gets a tad boring. After the training stuff, and after all that, and we get into like the building. See, I like the building of the first heist, but the building of this heist, boy, I found myself kind of going okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay. And it's like, oh, this is cookie cutter, easy, simple. There's something not happening that I wish could have been different. And if this is where the pacing kind of slowed right down, and it got a tad boring, and I could have been doing the dishes and still not missed enough and enjoyed the rest of the film. I'm not gonna pick anything specific that doesn't work because it's all fine. But it's just fine. You know? This reminds me of the moment in Captain America the first Avenger when it just shows montages of his missions.

SPEAKER_01 3:00:13

Where it's like, oh, okay. Oh my god, he took out Iron Man. That's true.

SPEAKER_00 3:00:23

Yeah. I I hear you. I mean This is the this is that moment where I'm like, oh, okay.

SPEAKER_03 3:00:30

This is this is this is Captain America, the first Avenger. Where there's a brief moment in the middle that you could have gone up and go to the bathroom and come back in and miss anything.

SPEAKER_00 3:00:40

You know, I concede to that, honestly. Um I that after you get through the hype of the the training and all that, um especially in comparison to the first heist that he did and how that was planned and executed, the the second heist, the big heist, the the only interesting parts I would say for me of that planning was the the comedic tones of him saying, I know people, and Hank and Hope are like, Oh gosh, we're not this is this is gonna fail. This is just epically gonna fail. Yeah. And those that's that's really it that kept me intrigued for that. So I'm gonna agree with you that the pacing didn't hold up too well for that part of the act. And the other two guys in this comedic trio that they have. Yeah, yeah, they're all right. Yeah, exactly. I like them. I think they're they're they don't ruin anything. Yeah, they don't ruin anything, but they don't add too much to bring anything. It's Louis, it's Louise that we want. I would argue, especially for that one guy that I think he has the Russian accent, if I remember right. He, if I remember right, in the next anime movie, he steps up a little more as as something. But in this one, he's just there. And but like you said, not horrible, but not yeah, not noteworthy. Right.

SPEAKER_03 3:01:55

So when that maybe could have made this a little more exciting to see. I mean, they're weird and it's fun that they're weird.

SPEAKER_00 3:02:01

And they do have great comedic timing for them.

SPEAKER_03 3:02:03

They do, and they're all great actors. I guess it's just a matter of could have been a little more bold.

SPEAKER_01 3:02:10

You know, and they just they just play real safe. Yeah. Which I think is a is kind of a um is the product of worried about how Age of Ultron was gonna age.

SPEAKER_03 3:02:24

They played a little more safe, which is fine. But like I said, it gets a tad, like, okay, I could have I could have missed 20 minutes here and or 10 or 15 minutes and been fine. You know.

SPEAKER_01 3:02:36

So I'm gonna give it a six out of ten.

SPEAKER_00 3:02:38

Alright, well, I'm gonna give it a seven out of ten. Yeah. We're right on the heels of each other. Yeah, yeah, we are. And it's and I we have some of the sim similar perspectives, or the ways we feel about the scenes are similar just for different reasons. I love that. I think it's so cool. All right, so um, do you want to read the the final act? Sure.

SPEAKER_03 3:02:59

So, act three. Scott shrinks down to subatomic levels and infiltrates Cross's facility and engaging in a climactic battle after the fight moves from Cross's technologies to his daughter's bedroom. The fight expands from the macro world to the quantum realm as Scott is briefly lost in the mysterious quantum realm, but manages to return. Cross is ultimately defeated, and Scott is officially embraced as the new ant man.

SPEAKER_01 3:03:29

Yes. Alright.

SPEAKER_00 3:03:33

So a little fun fact of one of the things I did this week, guys, because I I told if you have been paying attention and watching us for the past um, well, all of our episodes, honestly, especially in our last episode that we did, and I told you that I wanted to make sure I understood for myself for this review form the difference between the ending landing and the climax being earned. I actually did something that I'm like, okay, I went a little extra. I watched a YouTube video on the difference between a climax and an ending landing. I'm like, and well, I'll make sure I am understanding this. And so I watched a video that said, What is a climax? What's an anti climax? Here's examples, very good stuff that was out there actually on YouTube. So honestly, the internet does have your answers. You just gotta look in the right places. Um so did the ending land well for me. I would say yes, because it wrapped up the story that they were being told here. Yeah. Usually, and and that's one of the things that I've learned, and I don't know any movies on top of my head, but there are times where lendings ending endings do not land well. And that's that's because the main story that you're telling doesn't have a conclusion and it's just left hanging out there, and that's when it doesn't land. For this, it was very clear. Stop him from getting the shrinking stuff, he got the shrinking stuff, stop him from utilizing it and expanding it for world domination, and they did. So that it landed for me. Um did it land for you then for that same regard? 100%. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 3:05:11

Yeah, because the movie's very clear-cut on what what was going to happen at the end.

SPEAKER_00 3:05:15

Yeah, yeah. What would you say would be your uh best moment for act three?

SPEAKER_03 3:05:21

I the this fight in the in the bedroom. I love every time it pans out and you're seeing it from our perspective, yep, and it's a little stuff, it's like it's just like it's like nothing's happening, but there's like its ultimate extreme battle going on. Yep. And it's just wild to me. I love that they do this. And with that, I'm gonna say the climax was earned for me. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:05:44

Because what really works here is thankfully the villain, it pays off.

SPEAKER_03 3:05:53

All the weird crap we got before, and all this, you know, ambiguous, not sure what's you know, he's obvious so obvious he's the bad guy. Mm-hmm. Makes it makes up here for I love how wildly vicious he is. I agree. Oh. Once he just goes full throttle, I'm like, I'm in. Yep. He's a scary villain. Mm-hmm. When he comes up out of the pool and turns that family, whoa. Part of the part of it's the design of the suit is uh intimidating as well.

SPEAKER_01 3:06:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 3:06:25

But when his daughter looks up and he's just standing there in the doorway in that suit, she said, Are you a monster? It's like, yeah. Like he's a monster, like, and he looks like a monster. Like, yeah, but like he is just out for blood at this point. Oh, it's and I I've I gotta be honest with you. This was way I wanted that, I wanted to feel that from Ultron. And I'm like, Oh, I'm getting from this this yellow jacket guy what Ultron should have been, you know. Like there's things that this yellow jacket guy is doing at the end of this movie where I'm just like, yes, this is fun, this is great. And when he's fighting Scott, it's to the death to this guy. Like, he's right to the point where he went to his family, like he was gonna do things. Like this guy, I this is where the obvious bad guy thing works. I just wish there was a better build to him doing this, but once he's there, I'm fully on board with him. And then I forgot, like, I know how this movie ends, but I was I still found myself going, Don't let him get you, man. You know what I mean? Because like he's just he'll get you, and he'll get it if you give him a chance. It's it's over, right? Especially at the end here, you feel that. Yeah, I'm impressed with how much I enjoyed the ending of this film and the the climax of this, all this happening, and the and it's not even the climax of the heist, because once again, the heist even come off as a little boring when I'm watching it. Okay, it's here's the heist, and then the action picks up, which the action always saves this movie a lot, and it picks up as okay, cool, I'm engaged again. You know, if I had to pee, I'll hold it. You know what I mean? Like, because I want to see the fighting. But when he's in the cop car and he realizes that he went to her house and they turn around and they're going, from that moment to the end of the movie. This movie is is is at peak height of like we know what we're doing here. Trust us, this is what's happening. Right to making the Thomas the train engine big and coming out of the house, but just wild things. I'm like, this is this is so smart. The big ant that's one weird-looking dog. Like, you know, this I love it, it's great. Uh the climax is very much earned from me. But his yeah, I love him being he's a scary bad guy at the end of this movie.

SPEAKER_00 3:08:39

I completely agree with you. The funny thing that I it dawned on me as I'm watching this, because we're fresh off the heels of our Avengers Age of Ultron retrospective. And as I said before, guys, I got a little softer on how I felt about Ultron just because, you know, I'm just biting the bullet type thing and knowing that this is how they made him and this is how they did him, and this is how his new origin is in the MCU. Yellow Jacket here is exactly what Ultron was like in the comics. And the similarities that I could correlate with this is because in the comics, Altron was made by Hank Pym. Hank Pym doesn't stay Ant-Man forever. He actually, in part of his bitterness, becomes Yellowjacket as a as a anti uh what would you say, like an anti-hero, where he's just nasty. And that's what Ultron portrays in the comics is that nasty side of Hank Pym. And they did it in the MCU, they just didn't do it with Ultron, they did it with Yellowjacket, which it's great to finally get a villain that's like that. So I to totally agree with you, especially for this movie. It helped put the cherry on top of this movie of how good this of a movie this was. But it's that goes back to that missed opportunity. Well, they could have done with Ultron that maybe they'll still fix in the future if we ever see him again.

SPEAKER_03 3:10:06

But you know, it but for this, oh yeah, it it's that that shot when she's he's in her room. I'm just like, man, that made me go. That's unsettling. That is, it's just the color scheme, the suit, it's just it all worked real well.

SPEAKER_00 3:10:22

The act the child actor's realness that you feel it. Yeah, she was at, yeah. She was petrified. We were on her behalf too. Like, oh my gosh, what's gonna happen? Yeah. I completely agree with you. My best moment is uh everything you said, honestly, from that that scary moment with him, but I had to write down the Thomas the Train thing too. Honestly, every one of their scenes where they're fighting and they get small, and you're seeing the action and like the lifesaber, the green lifesaver breaks and all that, like you said, very great CGI for all of this. But then every time it pans out, and you're seeing do, do, do, do, do you can't help but laugh and enjoy it. It's hilarious. It's hilarious. And when it pans out from the Thomas of train set, and you're like, Okay, what's going on there? Then you zoom into what's happening, and it's like this whole destructive thing going on. He's picking up cars of the the train and throwing at him, and it's blowing up, and the ants. I'm like, there's a lot of crap happening right there. But yeah, it's so small. He falls on the track and the train's hitting him.

SPEAKER_03 3:11:26

It's like and then it shows it.

SPEAKER_02 3:11:29

It's like this is so good.

SPEAKER_03 3:11:31

Yeah, that's Paul Rudd writing right there. That's his kind of humor. That's his writing right there. I know it is. Like, it's he's brilliant. He's in that style, like it's brilliant. It's perfect. Yeah, that that stuff is really good. That's got his that's kind of that weirdness of that's got his fingerprints all over it, like for sure.

SPEAKER_00 3:11:49

Yeah, yeah, I agree. So um, what what would you say um would be your biggest issue? I think you already talked about some of this.

SPEAKER_03 3:11:57

Yeah, my biggest issue is it's there's still this heist is still pretty boring. You know, the the leading up to the climax is still I'm still in that that midsection to towards the end of all right, all right, all right, let's get there, let's get there. You know, and then once we get there, it's like okay, good, this is what I was waiting for. You know, so that's kind of how I felt. Yeah, no, I I agree with you. It carries over from the last act, to be honest with you, for me.

SPEAKER_00 3:12:22

Yes, yeah, you know, I I completely agree with you there for for that part.

SPEAKER_03 3:12:27

Um Louise when they pull up in the van, they're all the cops. He goes, Oh, what do we do? Okay, yeah, just back up, just back up, just back up, just back up. It's just like that.

SPEAKER_00 3:12:35

I just love he's so funny. Yeah, I love there's dialogue between him and Hope where he says, I can say this, I can say this, and she's like, Shut up. Just no, don't say anything. Just shut just it's real that that stuff is funny. Yeah, Louise is just he's just hilarious.

SPEAKER_03 3:12:50

Even it ends with him with his face and his with the smile. Yeah. You know, it's just like it's just it's so good. Yeah, I agree.

SPEAKER_00 3:12:57

He's everybody needs a friend like Louise. Yeah, and yeah, the the climax for me was earned. He beat Yellow Jacket at all costs, even sacrificing himself to do so. And um, I him being able to come back from the quantum realm that it you can tell by how everyone else, like everyone else being Hank and Hope, um you saw that spark of hope in Hank again. That there is a possibility his wife didn't die. But then again, you it's it's one of those catch 22s to a degree, in my opinion, where yeah, maybe she didn't die, but also how long has this been? She's gone without food, without, you know, normal substance. So even if she didn't die from that, there is a possibility she is just still dead. Yeah, yeah. You know, I think that crosses his mind. Yeah, but at least it's enough of a hope for him that he can want to do research to see if she's still there. And I love how that's a perfect setup for leading into the room. See, I read that differently.

SPEAKER_03 3:14:05

Hmm. I think you're right that okay, you know, I think you're right. It does have that hope in it. But I also read that as it almost made him feel like he failed her more. I can see that too. Because I I just for some reason, and I think that that's what makes him I'll be honest, when I later on, when we get to the later movies, maybe I'll I'll understand it more and maybe I'll be wrong. But the feeling I get from it is he's no longer thinking of it as she's still alive, but it's more like a like recovering her body. Like he wants when he finds out that when uh uh Scott comes out and he realizes it's possible, I think it's I think he feels even more like I couldn't figure this out. You know what I mean? I think no matter what the grief was and him dealing with it, I think the the reassurance he always had was the fact that you couldn't do anything about it. It was just one of those things that it happened to her and you wished it didn't, and there was no reverse in it. And now that there's a reverse, I I can see where you get he's like, oh it's it's oh there's hope. See, I kind of feel more for him in the sense when I look at him, what he's thinking there, is more like, oh wow. It doesn't seem I and I get that, I feel that because it seems like when he's talking with him about it, it's not a very happy talk. You know what I mean? It's not it's not like it's not like he's his mind is blown and he's like it's a eureka moment of you know what this could mean, you know, it's nothing like that. It's a very somber, yeah, I can't believe you made it out. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, I get that. Yeah, and and and in his mind, he's kind of like, Why can't my wife get the hell out of there? Or what is it that you did that you know what I mean? Or like like what the hell? I didn't think of this or whatever it was. I that's what I get from it. And maybe we're meant to read it a couple different ways. But it wasn't a very I didn't feel like it was a very joyful conversation. Not that it would be joyful because she's been gone so long anyways. No, but you would think that it'd be like, hey, wait a minute, look, there's a possibility.

SPEAKER_00 3:16:28

Yeah, that's what I got from it. Is that that what you just said there, that there's a possibility. Like, I uh for me, almost like you I saw a spark in him that he was like, I can do something.

SPEAKER_03 3:16:40

Whether it was I saw anger, I saw like an anger of like I feel like you know, I I need to do something more because I failed at this.

SPEAKER_00 3:16:52

I would have uh honestly for Hank's character development, I would have liked your obviously more, yeah. Yes, because I think that that is maybe that's why I'm reading it that way, because I kind of want it to be that.

SPEAKER_03 3:17:06

Maybe that's why I just felt like the conversation wasn't as didn't feel as hopeful as like a because I always thought that that's what that meant too, but then I'm like part of me was just like, wow, that's not very it really doesn't feel good. You know, there's no good feeling out of that talk.

SPEAKER_00 3:17:23

No, I I I got as a hopeful thing because that's why he presents Evangeline uh or help there with her own with the wasp suit and things like that, because he now wants to he it to me it's him having a spark of hope where he wants to continue the research now knowing it's possible. So then when we get to the sequel, that's his whole motivation, the whole sequel is to get his wife. Yeah, yeah. So that's that's the like he knows she's alive still. And I mean all that.

SPEAKER_03 3:17:56

Like I said, it could be a mix of both.

SPEAKER_00 3:17:57

Yeah.

unknown 3:17:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 3:17:58

Maybe but it's it's like We're gonna I'm gonna push forward because because I didn't push forward, she died. You know, and then so that moment with Scott could still be a sad moment and not hopeful, but he's still going to do finish the job.

SPEAKER_01 3:18:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 3:18:13

Now that he knows it can be done. Yeah. You know? Yeah, I agree. It could be a good mix of both because he definitely plays it as a little sadder than I expected, you know, for that being that kind of information.

SPEAKER_01 3:18:25

So Yeah. Alright, so um, what would your score be for the final act? Boy, the villain really makes up for it. I had seven, but I'm gonna give that final act an eight. I did too. Honestly. I I yeah. Yeah, they brought it back around.

SPEAKER_00 3:18:48

Alright, so post-credit scene, guys. What happens? There is two scenes, actually. There's a mid-credit scene, which Hank Pym shows Hope Van Dyne a prototype suit revealing the original Wasp outfit. He offers it to her and she accepts it. And then the post-credit scene is Steve Rogers and Sam Wilson appear holding Bucky Barnes, who has been found and unstable due to a hydra conditioning. They debate contacting Tony Stark, but they decide they cannot, reverising tensions coming from Captain America Civil War, which was an actual scene, by the way, in the Captain America Civil War that they threw in there. Yeah. Yeah. Anyways. Um the purpose was, of course, to set up hope to become Wasp in the future and Cap 3. Yeah. Um, how important is this to the MCU?

SPEAKER_03 3:19:38

I think they're both very important. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think they both serve a big purpose. And uh we get we definitely get the payoff from both of them too. Yep. Hype level is like 100%. Yeah, for sure. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:19:50

Yeah, very good.

SPEAKER_03 3:19:51

So how would you score it? I'm I'm gonna give the first one a 10 out of 10, but the one with Steve Rogers, I'm actually gonna give it a six. I gotta be honest with you. I I think it's a great tease, and I think that it's it's I just think that the formula so far of these post-credit scenes feel like it's an extra tag, and this time was a part of a you could tell it's a part of a scene. And I kind of it just felt very uneven for me, and maybe a little more confusing in its own way. I don't know. I kind of like it when it's a wink wink, here's a post-credit, this is what's coming. And rather than taking actual scenes and then we see them again later. I don't I don't really I don't know. I don't I just thought that the the direction of changing that and what that feels like was was very obvious. I just gave it lower because I prefer it when it is just kind of a this is what it is and it's on its own, you know? Yeah, and let it be part of the story instead of adjacent to it or or more of it, you know what I mean? Like that makes sense. I can see that. But it it's still a good one, you know.

SPEAKER_00 3:21:04

Yeah, yeah. No, I I I didn't have any problems or I get your feeling about it completely. Um I I gave it actually the score for me for I just scored both of them as a whole together. It was an eight out of ten for me. Yeah, that's solid. I can go with that too, yeah. All right, so our deep dives, guys. Um, Ike, who was your best performance?

SPEAKER_03 3:21:28

I'm gonna give this one to to um Michael Douglas in this movie. I I I was gonna go Paul, and I'm not saying he's not great. I'm not I just don't I don't think this movie has the weight or the carry-through and the actual, you really feel like you know, this is this I mean his character is really well thought out, and Michael just brings it to the table. You know, it it it seems like he's such a prestigious actor, but he took it so seriously, and you can tell right from that first scene in the beginning of the movie, it's just oh man, this he's on point. He's he's riding this thing out. And I I just I'm gonna give it to Michael on this.

SPEAKER_01 3:22:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:22:10

That's you know, that's a very good, um, very good observation there. I am gonna give it to Paul Rudd for myself personally. Um, I didn't know of this this actor beforehand or anything, but the the way he's air able to carry both the comedic tone and the the somber seriousness of the film and uh all the scenes that he does. I there's not one scene that I think he pushed it too far or he did the joke too mu too, you know, corny or anything like that. Um he did a great job, and for me, I can see him as a leading man in an Avengers type uh movie. So um yeah, I I gave it to him for his performance in this one.

SPEAKER_03 3:22:56

Yeah, it's it was it was I had a toss-up between the two. I could almost I could almost flip the coin. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:23:01

Well, for for me, when it comes to the most surprising performances, I did put Michael Douglas because he is it is it is a refreshing take to get a legacy actor like him that takes this genre seriously enough when he did this role to do all that stuff. Because not saying that the other ones didn't, of course, but you know, superhero movie, how serious do I have to be type of thing. He went above and beyond what you would have expected. And he does it two more times. Yeah. Great. Yeah. Yeah, he does he he has stayed the No, I can't say that. Now that I'm I'm remembering certain scenes of the third movie, I can't say he stayed the most consistent. I'd say he was consistent in that too. When we when we get there, I'll I'll point out the spots that I think that it was character assassination for him. There's uh if any of them, I think Paul Rudd is the character that, or um, yeah, Scott Lang stayed the most consistent of the three movies. I agree with that, too. But all the rest of them, even Hope, they dropped the ball on her in the third movie. Anyways, that's that's another time, guys. Um, yeah, I put Michael Douglas, Evangeline Lily, and Michael Pena as most surprising performances for me. All three of them. It was hard for me to to put one above the other. Um if I had to, maybe Michael Ekes out a little more. Um, but then uh or Michael Douglas, I should say, but Michael Pena and um Evangeline Lily are neck and neck there too, with just surprising. Like I was enjoying them surprise, you know, that type of thing. Um well uh who's your most surprising performance?

SPEAKER_03 3:24:45

So Paul Rudd almost got this one, but then I realized I've seen stuff with him in it. I've always said he just needs the opportunity because I think he's got it, so it wasn't much of a surprise. Um, but I'm gonna give it to Michael Pennier. I did not realize how funny he could be. And when you go from a guy who plays a lot of serious stuff and and has some comedic stuff in that serious stuff, to someone that really is your comic relief, he just nailed it. You know, for someone that doesn't play that often, it's it come very natural to him. He has a very natural, funny thing about him where I don't think he had to try very hard. And I I I this surprising to me, I think. Yeah. So yeah, it's good.

SPEAKER_00 3:25:28

Weakest performance.

SPEAKER_03 3:25:30

Yeah, I'm gonna give it to Evangeline Lilly. Yeah, I don't, I I'm I think she's the average actor. I mean, I think she's alright. I think she's only as good as the people around her allow her to be. And I'm not saying she doesn't fit in that category that you explained earlier, because she does. She definitely shows emotions better than some of the others, but that doesn't necessarily mean it looks good. So um her haircut don't help. Um okay, I understand that part. I'm just kidding about that more so, but it's still it really don't help. Uh, but yeah, I don't know. She just um she just falls flat for me often, you know, and I just can't think of a moment of her on her own that is that kind of shines, you know. It it's it's without the sub I mean that's an argument you can have about everybody in it, I guess, but not necessarily. I think I she's a great background character, you know. I'll have better things to say about her for the second movie, for sure. Um, it will have a lot worse things to say about her for the third. Uh, but yeah, I mean it's okay, but I I guess I just yeah, she just I just don't believe her that much. How about you?

SPEAKER_00 3:26:45

Um it's hard for me to because I okay, I'm gonna start off with saying that every actor in this movie does a great job of what they're given, in my opinion. Um if I had to pick one, uh it's hard because I want to say Corey stole, because he seemed for the first two acts in particular, like a typical mustache twirly type villain. His performance in the third act really, really makes up for it. So there is no weak performances in this movie, but he is the weakest of them all, if I had to tier them all. Only because of what um he was like for the the first half, basically. The first two-thirds of it, honestly. Because he just seemed very generic, but also at the same time, I didn't mind that. Because once you once you get over the fact that they're just a generic tw mustache twirling type villain, then you just relax and see all the other stuff that they're doing in it. But that third act, it really saved him for the acting part. It actually made the first the acting of the first two acts make sense for him on how driven he was. I'm not so sure I'd go that far, but I I appreciate the sentiment though, at least.

SPEAKER_03 3:28:07

Yeah, yeah. So that's that's how I had to put up. He would have been my second choice for the same reasons. But the only reason he that she's worse than him is at least he's got a great third act. Mm-hmm. When she just for me the whole time was right was just stagnant. Yeah. But yeah. I can see that. All right. Casting wins or misses? Do you have an Yeah? I'm I don't think there's any misses. I don't think there's I think the wins are all there. Yeah. I don't want that, you know, as much as I said about Evangeline Lily, I think she's fine for the part though. So, like I said, I got better things to say for her about her in the next one, you know, but yeah, we'll get there.

SPEAKER_00 3:28:46

Yeah, all right. I I agree completely with what you just said. Um, any missed opportunities or waste of potential you'd have in this movie?

SPEAKER_03 3:28:52

Yeah, story-wise, um, cast characters I think is fine. Story wise, as man, they could have had a little more fun with the heist stuff and get a little more outside of the box. Yeah. Because it got a little boring there in the middle. You know, and then maybe go back and not make the villain so weird in the beginning. Yeah. You know, but other than that, that's all I would change.

SPEAKER_01 3:29:14

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03 3:29:15

Personally, because I got a tad, okay, let's just get there in them for a moment.

SPEAKER_01 3:29:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 3:29:20

Which sucks because it's a great beginning and it's a great ending, and it's a middle that's got great scenes, but then some yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:29:28

Yeah. Yeah, I agree. I completely agree with what you said. All right, so the direction and production. Yeah, I think it's a mess.

SPEAKER_03 3:29:37

Um I think they did a good job, but I think why we didn't get something that was a little more bold is because they had all a bunch of crap going on behind the scenes. I think the guy that got to do it took the easy way out and just did what was already done. Although, I think he made the right choice by doing so. But I do think that's what happened. So I'm not gonna give him a lot of credit.

SPEAKER_00 3:29:59

So that's an interesting perspective. You you'd say that it was the right choice, but it still was the easy way out. Yep would there have been a scenario where it was also the right choice, but it he it was not the easy way out? He took his own swing and it was better, yes.

SPEAKER_03 3:30:20

What that movie is, I don't know though.

SPEAKER_01 3:30:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 3:30:23

But yeah. Because he's just using what was already down and they just were getting it done, and it was somebody capable of doing it. I'm not gonna, yeah, what good job. Someone did half your job. It's like giving Josh Sweeton Justice League.

SPEAKER_00 3:30:37

You know. If he had kept it the way originally was, that's the what he did, is he made it his own and it was dog.

SPEAKER_01 3:30:43

And he failed.

SPEAKER_00 3:30:44

Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 3:30:45

So part I I actually it's a mixed, it's a mixed thing. But I I struggled, I debated the same thing you're asking me in my head. But I'd I would rather a director come in that's taking over and been like, well, it's mine now, so this is what I would do. Well, I take that chance. Yeah. Because what if the movie was all of a sudden, whoa, where'd this come from? Yeah, because it because I have a hot take and or another version of this movie that I would have done differently that this guy may have done.

SPEAKER_00 3:31:20

Maybe well, well, I will agree to on this sentiment and this topic is that it does give a false impression of what his actual view of the movie could be. Only be like, okay, I completely agree, and I do applaud actually to a degree, the creative team saying, look, we're short on time, we have to get this movie done. It is already written and done, and it turns out, as we now see it executed, very well done. Yeah. But the problem in doing it the way they did it is the the new director was literally just a a chair swap. There was nothing of the creative juices from the original director just stayed there, but the new director doesn't he didn't have creative juices because he had the work of what he had right there. They did little script touches, it sounds like a little bit of rewrites here or there, but it wasn't. That happens on all these, though. Yeah, exactly. That that's the thing. Some of these scripts are like living documents, they're always being changed and added throughout the whole movie until the very end. Even then the reshoot still occur.

SPEAKER_03 3:32:26

There's very few directors out there that it's like the script is I mean, you got Clint Eastwood's one of them, and uh Nolan's one of them, but most directors out there sometimes whole scenes change onset.

SPEAKER_00 3:32:39

You know, anyway, sorry. Yeah, no, you're right, but it does, and they should have kept this in the back of their head, uh, Marvel, that it does a dessert, it gives a false impression that this is what you're gonna get from all of Peyton Reed in doing all these. And unfortunately, from what I could think of in the in the top of my head, again, we're gonna get to the retrospective so we could give you a more clear answer on this. This is not his cup of tea. No. And even when he tried to do a big swing in the third one, it was a big miss in doing so. And I think that it all part of it for some of the people, like maybe in the higher ups, they didn't care too much, they just wanted to see success continue on. Um, this movie gave them a false impression of what a trilogy could look like under this leadership. And some of these actors, when or I'm sorry, some of these directors, when they're getting projects like these, this is their way to make their mark improve themselves so they could become the Rooster brothers of that character. Right. And not always do they succeed. We see that with Thor, where he's gone through three different directors now. We've seen that with Iron Man, he's been through two different directors, you know. And it's okay to swap them out a little bit, but Ant-Man had the consistent director, but knowing what we know of the behind the scenes of this film, this isn't authentic of what that director's vision would have been. Right. And I agree with you, and I'm curious what your hot take is on what you think he would have done differently that would have been his vision and how that would have obscured our v our view of it.

SPEAKER_03 3:34:23

Yeah, and I'm not saying mine would have been good. Yeah. It just would have been what I would have taken a chance on. And I think maybe this guy should have. But there's time constraints, there's a lot to it, but I'm not gonna give it the pass though and say, hey, great job. You know, you made a good cookie cutter, filler, feel-good movie. You know, it's when technically it was kind of already done for you. Yeah. Because this is an Edgar Wright movie. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:34:54

I was and it and it's just without any recognition on it. And they did, I think after what we talked about with Age of Ultron, they needed a win like this. They did. Yep. Because I don't see a Peyton Reed written movie right after an Avengers movie that was at times mediocre to a degree.

SPEAKER_03 3:35:16

I think they made the right decision.

SPEAKER_00 3:35:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 3:35:19

I just I think if if I was in their position though, I would have made a different decision. I'm not necessarily saying that it would have been the right one though. But we're never gonna know because this is what we got. Yeah. But this was this worked though. You know what I'm saying? Like, so yeah. The action though, I'll say, is great. It's the action is some of my favorites. I think the action's on par. This is like we talked about the CGI already. I like that CGI is minimal in some times, and then where it's big, it's good. Um, and you know what? The music, Marvel is it's not the best they got, but it they haven't retreated back to what they started in phase one. Yeah. So at least I like the end song. I like I actually was like, cool, we got music, you know. Yeah. Excuse me.

unknown 3:36:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 3:36:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:36:06

So that's how I feel about the rest of that stuff. How about you with the rest of that at least? I I agree with everything you said about the rest of the direction of production. Um lingo there. Um yeah, I agree.

SPEAKER_01 3:36:18

Alright, hot takes. Do you want to give yours first? Um yes.

SPEAKER_03 3:36:28

I think this movie would have been better and they would have had opportunity to make better sequels out of this if you introduced um uh what's his name?

SPEAKER_01 3:36:46

Uh Scott Lang in this, as someone being recruited like just like they do in the movie.

SPEAKER_03 3:36:53

Um, but he's only part of the team, and I think this movie would have been better if Hank Pym was actually Ant-Man the whole time. And this would have been more interesting. Uh in my my opinion, I think it would have been more interesting you could have went forward then with the next movie could have a lot more to do with Scott taking over and her having a hard time with it. You know what I mean? And and and played that over more, and then maybe we wouldn't have gotten Quantumania the way we got it, because they'd have kept these movies the same as they went instead of taking these bigger swings. I just think that if you were gonna have Hank Pinna in this movie as much as you did, why not just let him be why not let this be Iron Man in reverse? Where instead of the young guy fighting the old bad guy, it's the old good guy fighting the young bad guy. You know what I mean? Like, I think that'd have been I think the emotional stakes for Hank would have been bigger.

SPEAKER_01 3:37:59

You know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_03 3:38:04

And maybe end it with uh maybe maybe end it with Hank being incapacitated, and that's your last fight, you still get Scott as Ant-Man and it you get this now he when he goes into the next movie, he is now the new Ant-Man. You know, like I think it would have been like I said, that's it's a movie we didn't get. It's I don't think it would be better than this. I don't know what it would look like, but I think I wouldn't have minded seeing old Hank Pan kicking some butt for a while and then for fun.

SPEAKER_01 3:38:36

I don't know. I think I I feel like I kind of have a feeling that that could have been a little more of that, but personally. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 3:38:51

Alright, well, uh my hot take, and I know I might get a lot of people disagreeing with me on this, but I think for the retrospective review, um it's warranted. I think this should have been Marvel's first one and done film and no sequels. Because if if I think if I think critically on what I remember at the moment before we get to our full detailed retrospectives of Ant-Man 2 and Ant-Man II, which I think everyone can agree we could wipe Ant Man 3 out of our brains. Um But Ant-Man 2, from what I remember of it, there are things in there that they they do introduce to a degree, not really introduced all as much. It's not, they're not anything consequential to the MCU where they couldn't have done them in an Avengers movie or in another film. And I'm not saying that because of the diss on the cast. The cast is great, like I said, like we've talked about. This cast is amazing. But story wise, moving forward, it makes sense when they place the second. Movie in between two Avengers movies, why they did, because that would have been the party pooper of phase three had it not been placed where it was placed. And I think that that story of just getting Janet back, who knew she was a little B-word, but that's later on. Um and I hate saying that because I love Michelle Pfeiffer so much.

SPEAKER_03 3:40:24

Anyways, um they just need to tell each other things.

SPEAKER_00 3:40:29

Yeah, they just need to talk. Yeah. But, anyways, there's nothing consequential enough in the next two movies that I think would have warranted needing to have to tell those stories.

SPEAKER_03 3:40:40

I like your hot take better.

SPEAKER_00 3:40:43

It's it's a controversial hot take because then people will be like, what do you mean? Yeah, well, we saw um Paul Rudd team up with Captain America in Winter Soul, I'm sorry, in Civil War, and then we see him again in the uh Avengers Endgame. He easily could have cameoed in another film to show why he or it's similar to Hawkeye, why he wasn't there. It didn't need to be a post-cred scene. That could have been another way of or leave that the post-cred scene. Wasn't was that the post-cred scene?

SPEAKER_01 3:41:20

Did it? No. That could have been Infinity War's post-credit scene.

SPEAKER_00 3:41:26

Is Scott being is the post-cred scene of Ant-Man 2. Scott being trapped to the quantum realm. That's it. We didn't need to know anything else.

SPEAKER_03 3:41:34

I I like yours with the caveat that you that in the future when he does show up and things, they give him more to do. Yeah. I don't I think yours doesn't work if we just got rid of the other two movies, and then we still have just the random spots we've had him in. I think it only works is it if you only if this was the one and done, then his other scenes would have been better in the other movies.

SPEAKER_00 3:42:02

I agree. I I do I think that I would have added him similar to how Anthony Mackey was adding his Falcon in more cameo appearances in other films, he would have been a great one to add as a cameo in another film. I I agree with that. I can agree with that. Which would have carried on the story points of they st they started with this, but there was nothing so consequential enough in those other two films that you would have needed a full film for it, as opposed to, oh, you can tell them rescuing Janet in another character's film with him in it. You know, kind of meshing the two together, learning about the quantum realm. Who knows? You know, something like that.

SPEAKER_03 3:42:38

He's in a peculiar position as this character because I think we're in a we live in a time or we're in a time with his character where I think a lot of people would say that oh, we could just do without Ant-Man and because it's really overhyped. You know, but I also think that if they did just like stop using Ant-Man, that's ten movies from now they'd be like justice for Ant-Man. You know, so I think it's in a very peculiar spot where he's at. Um, I think whatever I I would argue if they could really do a good send-off final movie for him, it might be the best way to go. Now that it gotten three deep, do the fourth one, but make it more of a heist movie, more of a passing the gauntlet, or I wouldn't mind seeing him be in a leadership role later as well. Make him an OG at some point, right? Like Paul do it, give him money, he'll do it. So yeah, I don't know. That's yeah, I like your hot take though. That's good.

SPEAKER_00 3:43:38

All right. All right, so guys, quick fire questions, answer fast, don't overthink. What's your best scene in the movie? Uh best scene in the movie, blah, blah, blah, blah.

SPEAKER_03 3:43:46

I love uh that the fight on the playside, specifically on the train, when it's throwing the train cars at him, and then it shows the train fall over. I love that whole scene. I'm I'm I'm just gonna throw it out there, guys. It's one of the best.

SPEAKER_00 3:44:00

Yeah. There's there is a lot of good scenes in this movie. There's a lot. It's tough to but I picked one. This one that I'm gonna pick is strictly for the comic book lover in me. And that is that first opening scene. Yeah, I that was on that was on my head. That well, from the 1989 opening scene. That is good. It is for like I said, for the comic book fan that I am, to see how accurate that was done and how much of a great way of integrating to the MCU and the character setup for who Hank Pym is within just two or three sentences and two or three action points. Yeah. Nailed it.

SPEAKER_03 3:44:39

See, I picked the play set scene specifically because if I was to show somebody a 10-minute clip of what this movie's like, I'd show them that clip. That's a good one. Because it goes back and forth of the wild action and the comedy and like how it wor looks, you know? But yeah, you're that scene of then the beginning is just your least best scene.

SPEAKER_01 3:45:06

I struggle with this one because there's not a lot of bad scenes in this. I agree. There's not a lot of bad scenes.

SPEAKER_03 3:45:14

Um I I can tell you, uh maybe not specific. I'm just gonna I'm gonna use it as a scene. But I don't feel the chemistry between him and Hope.

SPEAKER_01 3:45:28

The way they want us to. I know they're trying to ship it. I get it. But I don't know. I don't I don't feel it.

SPEAKER_03 3:45:38

You know, I don't know if I ever do either. I can't wait to watch next one to give you up for sure. But it's kinda like I don't know, I just don't I'm not saying it's bad, but if I had to pick the least I'm interested in is I forgot all about this. Yeah, the least I'm interested in, yeah. So cool. The yeah, I uh I I don't buy their their little connection they got, you know. I do like the joke at the end that he says, you know, it's like yeah, she just kissed me. I'm trying to leave, you know. And he's like, Scott, you're full of shit. And he goes, Yeah. You know, it's like I do like that, but like I just don't them two together, I'm not buying really. So I guess that's what I would pick.

SPEAKER_00 3:46:16

No, I can see that. I think you're very valid in that um that feeling. It's that's some of the things we talk about for every one of these um films, is the the chemistry between the main actors, the the main female and the main male lead, is it's either a hit or a miss. Sometimes it's a hit, like with Pepper and Tony. And then sometimes it's a miss, like with Betty and Bruce. Yeah. Yuck.

SPEAKER_03 3:46:48

Something's wrong, dude.

SPEAKER_02 3:46:49

Cause she's just so beep beep beep beep beep.

SPEAKER_03 3:46:54

She's just like singing the birds every morning, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 3:46:57

Like and he's just so you know, gloom and gus. And well, she leaves, she left her current boyfriend because he showed up one day. That poor guy. He just still with her. She just, you know, by the way, you know, it's like, wow, what a cheating. Anyways, guys, you gotta catch that episode. It's early on in the Goodell Multiverse podcast, so editing-wise, might not look good as what this one looks right now, at least. But we had a great talk. Great talk, bashing that movie. Anyways, um, so I don't really I can't think of a least best scene on the top of my head that really stuck out to me like it bothered me, you know? Um because there's it's cool. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 3:47:46

Nothing that made you go, what the hell?

SPEAKER_00 3:47:47

There's nothing, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 3:47:48

I just didn't believe their chemistry is all. And I figured at the very least it's where I could put that, you know?

SPEAKER_00 3:47:53

Yeah. No, I I agree. I agree with that part. All right, best villain moment for you. So I struggle with this.

SPEAKER_03 3:47:59

I'm gonna I'm gonna say I love it when he kills that guy in the bathroom. Because it's so just like nonchalant, he doesn't give a shit. Um, but I do when he shows up in a doorway in her bedroom. Yeah, it just showed that. I just am like, whoa. Like that is yeah, I just like I like that too. So between those two, it's tough to pick.

SPEAKER_00 3:48:18

Those uh that, yeah, those two scenes in particular. Look how menacing he looks. He's just scary, he's extremely scary. Like, gosh, I don't have to be a little girl to be sitting on my bed and seeing that there, being like, oh my god, I'm scared. Like, that's pretty that's intimidating. That's scary.

SPEAKER_03 3:48:37

That's why it's hard to pick between you two, because the one shows that he's willing to kill. Oh, yeah, and that's shows you right off the bat that this guy's not messing around.

SPEAKER_00 3:48:44

Because from my understanding, that that Frank guy, isn't he a congressman?

SPEAKER_03 3:48:48

Yeah, or something, like the buyer of something, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:48:51

Yeah, you're because yes, I think he is, because he all he said was uh it has to be a legal thing. And I'm thinking, well, that sounds like something uh a politician would say, like I could support you if this, blah, blah, blah. Like he's trying to pitch this to the military. And he straights up turned them into a little blob. It's like I'm like, I'm wondering what the follow-through on that is. I'm surprised there wasn't like anything that said missing senator or something, you know, like that. That's scary. That's that's scary. So yeah, those two scenes, I agree with you.

SPEAKER_03 3:49:26

When I actually felt like he was scary, though, it was when he shows up there.

SPEAKER_00 3:49:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 3:49:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:49:30

I agree. Yeah, I agree completely.

SPEAKER_01 3:49:32

All right, most punchable face for you. Oh, I'm telling you right now, ISI's mom. No, okay.

SPEAKER_03 3:49:46

I I didn't that's you and my brother, you've known me my whole life, your whole life. And you've seen what we've had to do with my two kids. Yep. We've raised them because their mom chose to walk away. And you guys have been a big part of that a hundred percent. And I'll tell you right now, this woman being the way she is to Scott about seeing it's like, who cares? Okay, I get it. He owes child support. He's a criminal who's just a burglar. It's not like he's a murderer. And look what he's trying to say. She's not gonna let him spend some time with his dog. This whole you're you can't come back when you have a job. It's like, no, he can still spend time with his daughter. Yeah, you know what I'm saying? Like, this is this is bull crap, man. Like this, you know how many people spend time with their kids and they don't have a job? You know what I'm saying? Like, that's not that's not the problem. Like, and she just it's like this whole wholesome family feeling, but you're still gonna be like in front of the daughter to say the stuff that she said that she needed a punch to someone needs to pull her aside and say, Hey, quit being a bitch, cup ow. And then it's just like, dude, let it's not like it's not like the daughter's afraid of him. Oh no, it's not like she doesn't know who he is. It'd be once he's like, Who's this man? You know, but maybe it's a different time you could do this, then right? Or or that guy, or he scares me because he's been in jail. She knows who he is, she's laughing at this, they have the same sense of humor. Yeah, he he he didn't buy that thing for her on accident, he bought it for her because he knew she'd find it ugly. You know, like what who the hell is this lady coming up and being like that? And you mothers out there or fathers that act that way towards your exes and your baby mamas and daddies, you go right to hell because that is just not the way you treat these people. You you gotta think of the kids. She needs a punch in the face. Well, and all she legitly got me mad. I'm like, that is just no wonder he goes back to Stina. Look at it. He wants to see he can't see his kid. It's like, why are you what is going on here?

SPEAKER_00 3:51:44

What is going on? Like I I hear you. I do, I hear you about this. You make excellent points for that. Um I don't even like her later when she's okay and cool.

SPEAKER_03 3:51:56

Like, get out of here. Oh, now it's okay? Now it's okay. Because why? Because he's a superhero? Yeah, come on. He still hasn't paid child support yet. You sure you want him in your house? Dangerous around your daughter. Get out of here. Oh God. Sorry, I'm revved up. It just it bothered that kind of that it just was very I was like, that is toxic. That's a very toxic person. Like it'd be one thing, he's there, gives her the present, she goes to show her friends, and then she gives him shit about the child support. Or you really shouldn't even be here because of it. You know, but then then to tell him to leave in front of the kid and right there at that moment, it's just very irresponsible and not the way you should conduct yourself as a parent. She needs a punch in the face. But that's that's just me.

SPEAKER_00 3:52:39

You know what's funny about that whole thing, too, is that yes, he is a criminal and he went and he served jail time and all that stuff. But then when you find out what he did to he Yeah, it's almost he from my understanding, and please correct me if I'm wrong, because it really was really, really quick when they mentioned it, but it was just a he exposed secrets or gave money back to somebody.

SPEAKER_03 3:53:08

Yeah, it was like he did a good thing illegally.

SPEAKER_00 3:53:10

Like, yeah, like it was illegal and he didn't get punished for it, but at the same time, he wasn't and he even says in the beginning of the movie, I don't do any of the violent crimes. I'm just a cat burglar. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 3:53:21

He's like, Oh, you rob people go, Oh no, no, that and that's the intention. That that means that they might think something violent happened. Uh the stuff I do, they don't even know I'm doing. Like that's yeah, he's he's a nice bad guy. He's a nice criminal. He is a nice criminal. If you're gonna have your house robbed, it's that kind of guy you want robbing your house. Yeah, because he's not gonna murder you while you're in your bed sleeping.

SPEAKER_00 3:53:44

Yes, if we have to have criminals in this world, we want Scott Langs. That's right. He'll come take your stuff, but he ain't gonna hurt you. Yeah, yeah, exactly. He's not gonna hold you at gunpoint, right? He just wants the jewels to pay his child support.

SPEAKER_03 3:53:58

Anyways, he probably won't take your stuff if you're nice people because he just likes nice people. Because he's a nice guy, too. But he can't see his daughter because why again? I I'm fully with you on that. She should have just been like, go see your kid, giving him crap. I don't understand, I understand, but that it just the shunning him from her, though. That to me was like, this is like message you want to send. No wonder people act this way to each other. This is why I'm single. Because girls I meet today, I j I'll tell you right now, I've told you this before. I meet girls say one of the first things that hits me up in in red flag to me is well, how do you, you and your ex get along when it comes down to your kids? You know, and if they're fighting, I'm not in. Sorry, guys, I'm out. Yeah, get your shit together. You know what I mean? Like, and that she reminds me of that. And I don't like that. It's it's toxic, it's not good.

SPEAKER_00 3:54:50

Cassie's mom is the most punchable face for me. For me, yeah. I I wrote down too. Um, I agree with your assessment on Cassie's mom. I didn't write it down, but I do agree with it. Um you're surprised I said that. It took me by surprise, but then as you're explaining it, I'm like, oh, this makes total sense. Yeah, yeah, yeah. This makes total sense. It's just unfortunately, like, that yeah. Anyways, um, the Baskin Robbins manager. Yeah, I kind of like him though. I like him, but he still could have kept him. I know maybe he had higher ups that said we don't hire criminals and he you have one, but there's a way to fake some records, you know. It's a Baskin Robbins, for goodness sake.

SPEAKER_03 3:55:35

It does set up a real good joke, though. It's a good joke.

SPEAKER_00 3:55:39

Yeah, it's a good joke, but at the same time, these this poor guy is just trying to make money to pay his frickin' thousands.

SPEAKER_03 3:55:46

Yeah, he would have been able to see his daughter.

SPEAKER_00 3:55:48

Yeah. Because he'd have had a job. And I know that that that one guy um already got a smack from Hank Pym, but I wanted to go at him too. He's a jerk.

SPEAKER_03 3:55:58

He wasn't gonna be in my punchable face, but then I realized uh he does kind of get it.

SPEAKER_00 3:56:02

Yeah, and I know Hank already beat us to the punch, pun intended, but he deserves another. Yeah, yeah. I gotcha. All right, guys. Um one prop that you would take home. We said the same thing. No way. I thought this was so obscured you wouldn't even have caught this.

SPEAKER_03 3:56:24

Nope. I I made a point to find the weirdest thing I can.

SPEAKER_00 3:56:28

Wow, that's what I come up with. It's literally the same thing.

SPEAKER_03 3:56:31

Same thing.

SPEAKER_00 3:56:32

All right, guys. Well, it is the San Francisco Chronicle newspaper that says who's to blame for Sokovia? That they and that montage of Ant-Man becoming Ant-Man, he gets like whacked with it. But it's just one brief moment. I had to pause it to read it and write it down right. Yep.

SPEAKER_03 3:56:52

The only other thing that I I paused on a couple different things to try to think. Maybe that might nah, nah, nah. The only other thing that comes across my mind is two things is the little devices that they use to throw at things to make them bigger or smaller. One of those would be cool. Or the stuffed animal he gives to Cassie.

SPEAKER_00 3:57:15

I thought about the stuffed animal too.

SPEAKER_03 3:57:16

Yeah, that was that was my second choice. But then I'm like, what's the weirdest thing I'd find? And I when I saw the newspaper thing, I'm like, oh, that'd be neat. I wonder if Samuel even catch that. And then I look at him like, oh yeah. Yeah. Yep, he caught it. That is so funny. All right. So it worked out.

SPEAKER_01 3:57:30

Okay, guys. So, um, most underrated moment.

SPEAKER_03 3:57:35

Underrated moment. I don't think that people talk about him breaking out the breaking out of jail scene that much as often. They always talk about the first time he puts a suit on and like the later on the fight and the fight in the heist. But I really love, like, like you said, with the countdown with the ants and how he just when he's talking. Hank Pim's got that great voice of talking through things. And this is when he finally gets on the ant. He goes, Mount the thorax. And he goes, What? He goes, get on the damn ant. Like it's like I just love it's just I just like how it all played out. It just was really nice.

SPEAKER_00 3:58:05

It was really cool. Yeah. I agree. I completely agree with that. All right. Most overrated moment. Gosh, you know, I don't know. I put hope controlling the ants.

SPEAKER_03 3:58:15

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 3:58:15

So I get You know what? I'm glad you said that because you're right. I get her point because she's trying to prove to her dad I can do this too. Why don't you put me in the field missions? But it's oh it's overrated because she never does it again. Right. She doesn't become ant woman.

SPEAKER_01 3:58:32

Right.

SPEAKER_00 3:58:33

And that's that's mainly the main reason.

SPEAKER_03 3:58:36

Yeah, I think it's perfect. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:58:38

Yeah. It it's almost you could have done that scene without her doing the control of the ants and her just walk away. And then they have that car moment like they did have, and it wouldn't have made a difference. Yep. I'm with you. So, anyways. Sorry, Evangeline. Um funniest moment for you. So I laughed a lot in this movie.

SPEAKER_03 3:58:59

Thankfully, I needed to. Um, but the one that made me laugh the most, I'm gonna give it to Paul Rod. And that's when he's trying to tinker with the thing, and Hank is telling him what would happen if he messes with it, the calibration is off. And in twice he's just like, What does that mean? And he tells him, and he goes, What does that mean? And then he tells him, and then he goes, Well, if it's not broke, you know what I mean? Like, I laugh so much. It's just it's just how he says it, because it's that's that's why Paul's got this role. You know what I'm saying? Like, yeah, I give it that because as much as I want to give it to something Luis did, I love everything he did. That made me chuckle out loud, and I looked around, and nobody was in the room with me but my dogs. So I have to give it to that one.

SPEAKER_00 3:59:46

Yeah, the my laugh out loud moment for this for this movie, which I agree with you, a lot of funny scenes in it. And everything that Luis like he's doing right now on our TV is retelling everything about um like anything. Anytime he retells stuff, it's really cool. But I wrote down the when Hank finally convinces uh Scott to join him and help him. Scott says, I'm from this point onward, I'm no longer a criminal. I'm not gonna break in and steal some shit. And then he says, What do you want me to do? And Hank says, I want you to break in and steal some shit. I'm like, that it was just perfectly delivered by Michael Douglas in the same tone. Yeah, seriously, but yet I was the same vibe as him. Like, there you go. Yeah. So I had to put a give it to that most emotional moment for you.

SPEAKER_03 4:00:38

I think it's at the end when they're talking about the quantum realm and how he got out and Hank. I I read, I may have misread that, but I read it as more sadness than hope. I'm gonna give it to that moment. I can't. In that moment, I was kind of like, oh, especially after they leave, and he's like he's talking to himself. I really felt for him in that moment. I could believe, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:00:59

If yeah, I will read it. Even if there was hope to it, you know. I might re-watch that scene in particular to make sure I'm reading it right than what I did. Um, but I I wrote down still Hank revealing Janet's deaf to hope.

SPEAKER_03 4:01:12

Yeah, that would be my second choice.

SPEAKER_00 4:01:14

Yeah. Alright, our final scores, guys. Out of scale of one to two, what was the story for you? I'm gonna give it a 1.5. Okay. Okay, I'm I gave it a one. Okay. Alright, characters for you? 1.5. I gave it a two. Action and visuals? That I gave it two. Okay, I did the same thing. Emotion and stakes? I'm gonna give it that a one. I gave that a two. Rewatchability and MCU impact. So here's where it goes south.

SPEAKER_03 4:01:44

Um Rewatchability, guys, is always the bigger one for me. And I struggled watching this a second time. Uh I'm not saying it's a movie I can't watch again, and I will, but it doesn't need to Be anytime soon. And that middle part boy gets worse or just not bad. It's just boring. So I'm gonna give this rewatchability part of it a 0.5. It's this is if I never saw this movie again, I wouldn't be brokenhearted. Um there's other, you know, but that doesn't mean it's bad. Doesn't mean it's not worth watching, but it's definitely not it's not a it's not a you know what, let's watch Ant-Man again. You know, it's like, no, there's other MCU ones that I'd rather watch again. So how about the MCU impact though? Yeah, I don't think it's too big either, honestly. This movie's is the it it they have enough MCU stuff going on in it, but it's still just enough on its own that it didn't matter, really, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_00 4:02:49

So Okay, I hear you there. I gave it a one out of two. The rewatchability part for me is that the same thing. Once I got to the third time, I thought, okay, I remember that this is this isn't this isn't Captain America winter soldier quality, yeah, where it would never get boring. The first two was great. The third time, I'm like, okay, now I'm really having to watch it more. Um, it didn't make it unenjoyable for me, it just was in as a retrospective review thing, be like, okay, I'm I'm finding I have to force myself to watch it more. So not unenjoyably, but I had to force myself. So that's why I gave it. What's your final score of the film?

SPEAKER_03 4:03:29

So my final score of the film is say is the same as my Captain America First Avenger, because I think this movie feels the most of like that to me. I think if I saw this poster up on the wall and it said Ant-Man scored by the Goodell Multiverse with a seven out of ten, I think it fits.

SPEAKER_00 4:03:47

I literally gave it the same thing, seven out of ten. That's wild. Yeah. Yeah. So the official Goodell Multiverse score is a seven out of ten for Ant-Man one. I think, and I think that's a win. Yeah, that's a win. Seven's good. Seven's good. Yeah. Yeah. Um, what would be your one sentence final review? I would say that uh this is safe cookie cutter, but perfect timing.

SPEAKER_01 4:04:18

If you want to have a good time, get some popcorn, watch this movie.

SPEAKER_00 4:04:24

I would say good way to introduce a new character into the MCU as a solo flick for Marvel's first attempt post-Avengers. Yeah, yeah.

unknown 4:04:35

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 4:04:36

Because really what we've had since Avengers 1 have been nothing but sequels. Guardians of Galaxy, you could say is a solo, it's not really a solo flick, but it's so out of the MCU world that we already have created because it's in space and doesn't even touch Earth really at all, except for the very beginning, and even then it's not consequential to anything. I kind of think of it kind of like Fantastic Four First Steps, it's just offshoot until they get into it.

SPEAKER_03 4:05:00

Yeah, well, and and once again it's still an ensemble. Yes, it's not so when you're doing a solo thing, it's a whole different monster. Yeah. When you have an ensemble going on, you got a lot of different things you can do and play around with. That's one thing why it was why it was always astonishing that they got Fantastic Four wrong all the time, is because what are you doing? You have four characters, sometimes five if you do it right with Doom, and you still drop the ball almost all the time. You know, one worse than the others, you know what I'm saying? But I'm not saying ensemble pieces should be easier to make, but when you got you when you have enough options to make a story happen, you can have my complaint like Drax and um like Drax's and uh you know Powdy Faces fight that I didn't like, but the rest of that scene is fantastic because you got a lot going on. And that helps a movie like that. You know, this movie is if you if Scott didn't work, the movie's not gonna work. If Michael didn't work, the movie's not gonna work. If you know what I mean, like it it it really, if one of them really didn't work real bad enough, the movie would have not worked. If that villain didn't get better at the end, this movie would have been way lower than it is. I'll be honest with you, that that's that they saved themselves by you know, oh wait a minute, we need you to get vicious. You know what I mean? Or do you know how you've been acting? Just keep doing it and say, okay, good, because it works here. It didn't early, but it does at the end. And if it didn't though, then this movie would have been, you know, this movie would have been Thor the Dark World, which I hate to say. Yeah, I'm not trying to give, I'm not saying it's the worst out there. I'm I don't think it's as bad as they have all made it out to be, but I do see the problems with it. You know what I mean? So villain-wise. So yeah, that's that's how I feel about it. And the the last question there, how we what would we change? This guy put that kind of in the hot take already.

SPEAKER_00 4:06:49

Yeah, I was gonna say, I think he already said it. So all right. Yeah, um, I completely I agree with you. So that guys concludes our retrospective review of Ant-Man one. So uh Ike, why don't you uh I'll I'll just give a quick um please follow our social media. You can find us on TikTok, Facebook, Instagram, on YouTube. We do reels whenever something new comes out. So please, you want to get our instant reactions to something we may or may not cover on the show, that's where you gotta go right there. Um stream wherever you would stream, like Spotify, Buzz Sprout, Apple, Amazon. Ike, what's coming up next?

SPEAKER_03 4:07:31

Yeah, like, subscribe, all that fun stuff, guys. And uh, so next, guys, is our our June special. Uh, you'll be seeing keep keep your eye out for that. Um, it's gonna be a retrospective of X-Men One. You know, that's gonna be and we're not sure. It I'm not we're gonna give you a date on it for sure right now. Um, we're gonna film it uh Sunday, a couple days from now, and then you know, we'll just we'll get it edited and we'll get it out there when it's out. Um, but our next uh retrospective when it comes down to next Friday when we go is uh it's a big one. We're moving on to Captain America's Civil War. The second movie the Russo brothers did. This movie's gonna be fun to watch. I am so excited to get to it. I'm gonna watch it tomorrow. I'm probably gonna get right to it. So I think we're gonna have a good time with that. And uh uh I'll have another episode of the Dark Dimension coming out, guys. I've had kind of a hiatus on it because of timing with work and things that's been going on with being busy. Um, but I got some really good big ideas. Sammy and I talked about. Sam's gonna join me on a couple of them. Uh we're gonna do one. We have our officially decided, we don't know when it's gonna be yet, but we're gonna have our special guest, our mom, back on again. And we're gonna do it for dark dimensions, and we're gonna do seven. So that'll just so keep an eye out for when we start doing that. So yeah. So that's not what Joker says, though, right? He's like six.

SPEAKER_00 4:08:55

Yeah, he does.

SPEAKER_03 4:08:56

He says six, but it's seven, you can say it like that. Yeah. Then in the next couple dark dimensions, guys, I'm gonna do more than three movies to make up for the week I had off. So, but yeah, look for that. I'll be bringing that to get, we'll get that edited. Probably I'll bring that Sunday with me when when I come and we'll get that edited. So yeah, guys, but seriously, seriously, hit us up, like our stuff, share our stuff, and if there's anything that you're gonna watch, go tell your friends, say, hey guys, at least come see these guys when they talk X-Men. You know, then then let them be introduced to us then, and then go back and watch our other stuff. Because I promise you, these next two that you're gonna see between us talking about Captain America Civil War and X-Men, we're gonna have a good time. Oh a lot of positive, fun stuff to talk about. I'm gonna warn you with these X-Men ones as we go, I'm gonna get I'm gonna get emotional. X-Men's tough for me not to get emotional. So there's gonna be moments where you're gonna see some tears. Maybe not with this first one, maybe, but there's you get later on in the world. We will get there. Oh man, I'll never forget that scene in Doctor Strange, Multiverse of Madness, when that one scene and Xavier comes out and he says everybody deserves that second chance. You and I looked at each other instant.

SPEAKER_02 4:10:13

But it's such a crappy movie. It's like it's like such a great scene in a crappy movie.

SPEAKER_03 4:10:19

It was just it's just sad. That's like you know, it's it's just it's there's a power these guys have, we'll talk about when we get there. From the second Ian McCull and Patrick Stewart come on scene, it's just yep, there it is. Yep. There's something they're just their voices, everything. I just lose it. I mean, of course you got Gandalf and Jean-Luc Picard in the same room, and it's the two of the best characters. It's like, oh my god, what is going on? Like, yeah, it's great stuff. So, yeah, guys, looking forward to it. That'll be episode 14. You know, I'm excited. Can't believe we've been doing it this long. It's been so fun. I can't wait. I cannot wait to get to Doomsday. We're gonna have such a good time.

SPEAKER_00 4:10:53

Yeah. Oh, yeah. All right. So tell your friends, tell your family, tell your enemies, get our podcast out there, guys. Tune in for all those specials that are coming up and for next week's episode. And until we see you next time, see you at the movies.