Ep14 - Captain America: Civil War Retrospective

The Goodell Bros give their HIGHT RATING YET on this episode - diving into some news related to Anthony Mackie, Wyatt Russell and Spider-Man LEAKS while also speculating Valhallah's Return, Margot Robbie as Emma Frost and Bucky's end. After the gameshow, the main event happens of Captain America Civil War review!

Transcript

SPEAKER_05 0:00

On every timeline in every universe, there's one thing that we always talk about. Marvel. Hello, everybody. Welcome to the Goodell Multiverse. I'm Isaiah Goodell. And I'm Sam Goodell. And we today are on episode 14. Yes, it is going to be a great episode, guys. I'm looking forward to this one so much. I come so overprepared today. Sammy saw my notes and was like, holy cow. Yeah. But guys, we got our normal slate that we're going to do. Just so you know, we're going to work on our multiverse minute when we get there. And we got some awesome stuff to talk about there. You know, MCU is going to be compared to twisted metal a little bit. How long is Spider-Man? Does it matter? And was the trailer leaked on purpose, maybe? We're going to talk about that. And Wyatt Russell says to hell with the rest of the MCU. Just watch this movie. So we'll see. Then we're going to go to a room and a rundown and uh Valela, maybe to the rescue. You know, when it comes down to Doomsday. And Barbie joins the MCU. That'll be interesting to see how that plays out. And Death to Bucky, I guess. Let's see what people think about that idea. We never know. And then we got the trivia takedown this week, guys, which we pulled stuff out of cup size time if you watched, and we're gonna have a good time with that. You know, Sammy has the the great uh chance to make Russell Crowe uh Mr. Fantastic and kind of tell us what that's gonna be like and maybe a movie for or or just just the idea of what that character would be. I got El Pacino, so that was interesting. Wait, you guys hear mine? You're probably all gonna throw stuff at your TV because it's awful, but it's wild. And uh and then our other one is uh how what was the other one, Sam? I can't remember. Oh yeah, Hawkeye versus Iron Man, who's the secret evil villain, right? And man, I want it all out, guys. So be prepared to see Iron Man in a whole new light. I just might ruin him for you. So I think I got this one today. But then after that, guys, we're doing our retrospective. And Sammy, what's our retrospective this week?

SPEAKER_01 1:56

Our retrospective is Captain America Civil War.

SPEAKER_05 1:59

Holy cow, can you guys believe it? We're already a Civil War. Yeah, oh my gosh. So we're we're in a trilogy now of one of the characters.

SPEAKER_01 2:06

Yeah, yeah. Officially, yeah. Yeah, officially, yeah. The third film uh after the Iron Man trilogy, which we already did. Now we're in Captain America's trilogy. And what a storyline from the comics to put into a movie. This is when we get there, guys. Holy smokes.

SPEAKER_05 2:22

Yeah, this is gonna be a fun retrospective. There's a lot to talk about, guys. This is basically an Avengers movie. So yeah, it's it's but but yet still all it's still just a cat movie. What a great balance. And that's what we're gonna be talking a lot about. You're gonna hear that word a lot tonight. So, yeah, guys, we're excited to get into it. Uh, stick with us, like, subscribe, all that fun stuff, you know, and uh we'll see you at the multiverse minute coming up next.

SPEAKER_01 2:45

Yeah, all right, then here we go. All right, everybody, we are in the multiverse minute, even though it's 45 minutes news section of the week. So we got three exciting topics to talk to you guys about. Um, as always, we want to hear your conversation in the comments below. So please go down and share your thoughts on each topic when we get to it. Be sure to like, subscribe, and follow of our social media so you don't miss out on any Goodell Multiverse news. And we're gonna get into the first topic here. So, the creativity in the MCU versus twisted metal. So, the Falcon actor Anthony Mackey recently in an interview explained how working in the MCU is different than working on other projects like Twisted Metal on Peacock. And so I'm gonna pull up his article right here, guys. Um Let's see, he says here let's see, he's also Twisted Metal's uh leading uh lead and executive producer on the show. So he has a considerable amount of input into this project for Twisted Metal on Peacock in particular. And he says, quote, I would say the Marvel thing is completely different just because it's such a space of controlled entertainment, there's only so much creativity you could bring to the table. Um in comparison to uh the freewheeling, uh he says here that Twisted Metal felt more freewheeling and creative liberty for Anthony Mackey himself in doing that show compared to the MCU. So, Ike, what's your two cents about what he's talking about here?

SPEAKER_05 4:32

So honestly, I think it's pretty I think it's pretty straightforward. I think um what he means is like there is a broader picture to the MCU. So when you're doing these MCU projects and you want to get something going or like you want you want to tell a story that's continuing on, that there are walls and barriers that you got to put up of where these characters go and what they do because of the source material. Like it's not that you can't take creative liberty and change these characters because they have a lot in the MCU, often actually. Um, tonight's a great example is Civil War. The movie's nothing like the comic stuff. I don't know much about the comic stuff, but I watched a half-hour video on it, and I'm like, woof, that'd have been a crazy movie to make. But there's no way, you know, at this time. And then so they made what they made. So if you were diehard and wanted the Civil War comic made, you're not getting it with this movie, you know. But it doesn't, it doesn't, you're getting the idea of it though, right? It's the spirit behind it. But I think like what he's trying to say though is Marvel is there is boundaries where we we are trying to tell a rich story, but it's gotta work, it's gotta fit, it's gotta stay somewhat true and have these things. When like you take something like Twisted Metal, and it's really just a bunch of crazy people in a post-post-apocalyptic world driving around shooting each other with cars to get a wish from an evil genie. That's it. All your creative liberty about everything that goes on, you can do whatever you want. And and I don't know if anyone out there's watched the show or not, but I've watched the two seasons. And is it perfect? No. Is it the most amazing thing I've ever seen? No. It's way better though than I thought it would ever be. It's really, especially season two. Because season one is kind of like, you know, like the first Mortal Kombat movie, where it's like, oh, it's not really a tournament, and they're just kind of like showing what this world's like, establishing it, but then season two goes deep into the tournament. And man, is it great? Like, I thought it was fantastic. And man, they change there's nothing, there's some characters that keep resemblance of what they are in the video games, because you and I we're famously uh uh very much so fans of the Twisted Metal stuff. We played it a lot. Oh, yeah, especially that second one. Oh, that one's dope. Uh, but anyway, yeah, and it deviates from it in some ways, way far away. But it's like, you know what, this works though, and you can do that with this. You can't deviate in Marvel the way they've been able to with Twisted Metal. So I think that's all he's kind of pointing out is what the difference is there. I don't think this means anything deep, though. There's no he's not trying to say anything bad about either one of them. I think this is just his way of explaining, hey, one's a one's like a creative dance and the other one's more like a creative, you know, choreography. And I think that that that's a big deal, you know. For for a guy talking about that, so that's a big deal to him, you know. Probably has more fun doing Twisted Metal. You know, uh probably less haters after his brand, you know, his Brave New World movie, but that's how I take it. How do you take it all, Sam?

SPEAKER_01 7:28

Yeah, you know, I agree with everything that you said, and I think what's interesting in comparison for these two projects, yeah. Like Anthony Mackey, he's in both. He's in the MCU, and he's his role now has been elevated into the MCU. And then in Twisted Metal, he is John Doe. He's your lead, he's he's your main guy, he's roadkilled, to be honest, guys. And you haven't watched the show, I do recommend you watch it. Also, these are two different mediums. Like, not only is one TV and one's movies, uh, I mean Falconer Winter Soldier was TV, but you get it, it's basically a cinematic universe. Um, that's what the MCU is. But also, Marvel is comic books putting into live action. Twisted Metal is a video game putting into live action. And the the difference between the source material means that there's not so much writing on Twisted Metal compared to Marvel. Marvel has turned itself into a multi-billion dollar empire with these movies. And case in point, one of the movies we're going to be talking about today on this episode, this is a huge monumental movie that they would have never dreamed of been able to do, and then to pull it off the way they did, and he has a role in this movie. And then you go to Twisted Metal, and that was one of those, like, let's see if this works. And then what's really cool about Twisted Metal in particular is not only did season one work, it wasn't like blow your mind working, but any issues that they had with the first season, they remembered them for the second season, and the second season got elevated dramatically. And now we're gonna get a third season. So, like, he's gonna continue on with that. And like, like he said, and like what you just said, Ike, you have you can have more creative liberty, you can have a little more freedom, be expand your acting range a little bit more here or there. Whereas when you're in the MCU, you are an actor and you are a talent and you're bringing your abilities to the screen and to in front of the camera. But at the end of the day, this is not your character. And where he was able to shape the character of John Doe more than he can shape whatever Falcon would have been or could have been, or this new version of Captain America. So um, yeah, it's uh it's an interesting concept looking back and forth between these two projects and someone like this who's smack dab in the middle of them. And what's making him the money though is the Marvel.

SPEAKER_05 9:57

Yeah, and what's unique is like you take characters from the comic books and you make them into these movies, and any change you make, whether it's something you actually change or if it's something that you keep the same, someone's gonna be there to point it out and nitpick about this, that oh, the suit, this, or he came from here. This person was really his mom, or or whatever it is they decided to change. In Twisted Metal, it's once again the IP is way different, guys. Video games, there's a lot more room for anything. Axel shouldn't have been as good as he was. And then in it's one of the best things about the show, you know, and it's such a ridiculous character, but boy does it work, man, like way better than I thought it would. And I was real surprised. And then that that's what's unique about it. So, yeah, I mean, anyone that says that video games are awful movies, it's I think you'd you're expecting too much.

SPEAKER_01 10:47

Yeah, you you need to put them in if you put them in the right hands, they could become something really, really good. Yeah, because they don't really like the Resident Evil movies, but they are just like the video games. I enjoyed them. I know you they're video game adaptations, so you don't take them too seriously, but at the same time, like what we just got with Mortal Kombat 2, Resident Evil, the Tomb Raider ones, they did well. They they were accurate.

SPEAKER_05 11:13

She that was almost exactly like the game that was.

SPEAKER_01 11:16

Exactly.

SPEAKER_05 11:16

Like, yeah, come on. So what's the deal here? Like, what do you want? Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 11:20

You know, I understand when you get up tight about comic books, but calm down with the video game stuff. And what I'll say about Twisted Metal in particular is that is one IP, that's one video game. I can I have a hard time seeing it in a live action version just because, like what my brother just said, it's nuts. It's a it's a wild, crazy game. It's cool. And I would even argue that of PlayStation games, Twisted Metal 2 is within the top five best game PlayStation's ever had. Oh, in our household for sure. Oh, yes. But I mean, this that's that's a game, no matter how old the graphics are. You could still play it today and you oh, it's so funny, it's so fun. Yeah, yeah, it doesn't get old for me. So to turn that into any sort of live action, whether it's a TV show or a film, there is gonna be a lot of creative liberty for that. And so that's why I think that Anthony Mackey is honing in on here is that the this is it's so hard to turn a video game in uh especially Twisted Metal video game into something live action and serious. He can have fun, and he's one of the producers on that show, and it it makes sense because he's gonna be helping part of the direction of the franchise. Whereas when you're Captain America slash Falcon in the MCU, you know who's in charge of the MCU, and they're gonna put forth the vision that they have, and you are just an actor for it. You enjoy the ride, you your input sometimes matters and sometimes helps in situations, but he is right, the creative controls that you would have, the actors don't have that. At the end of the day, no matter how big of an A-list star you are, from Robert Downey Jr., oh well, to a degree, sounds like for Doomsday, he's a little bit more on the producing side of some of these things, but we don't really don't know uh of that exactly. But you know, no matter how big of an A-list you are, like an Angela Jolie who comes into the MCU in the next phase or two, you're just an actor. They just ha hired you for the talent. Yeah, agreed. There you go. So, anyways, question is for you guys. What do you think of Anthony Mackey's comments? What do you think of Twisted Metal as a show? And what do you think of the Falcon slash Captain America nowadays? Um do you agree with Anthony Mackey or do you think there's a little bit more nuance to this? Comment below and let us know. All right, I take it away for our next topic.

SPEAKER_05 13:36

All right, guys, next topic we're gonna move on to is some Spider-Man stuff. Spider-Man brand new day, uh runtime and trailer leak. Spider-Man brand new day is listed on AMC Theaters as having a two-hour and 30-minute runtime. The longest Spider-Man runtime ever ahead of No Way Home by two minutes, plus a major second trailer leak, potential spoilers, Hulk's appearance in the film. So, Sammy, there's a couple parts here when we talk about the runtime thing first. Okay. I'm gonna tell you right off the bat, for me, I don't care. I think runtime only matters if it's obvious. Like if it's like, well, three hours and ten minutes or something, that's a long movie. Let's talk about this. Is this movie? Should it be that long? Or if it's an hour and 20 minutes, let's talk about this because that's not a lot of time for a Spider-Man movie. Two hours in this, yeah, big whoop. It's this is your typical movie. I think anything from an hour and 45 to two hours and a half is normal and almost kind of not a big deal, to be honest with you, with these kinds of movies.

SPEAKER_01 14:42

So my thought about the runtime is I'm happy it's the longest Spider-Man movie. And uh there's a couple of reasons why. Um, it's only longer by two minutes. And not much. So it's not like that's a big, big deal, but from what we know of this movie so far, a lot of stuff is gonna be introduced and go down this movie. And so they need as much breathing time as possible for us as the audience to not make it feel too quick, too fast paced, or overshadow someone like Spider-Man too much of all the characters that are to be in this movie. Yeah, yeah. Um, so I'm happy it's two hours, two hours and 30 minutes long. I think that's gonna be cool. I think that means we're in for a treat, because that's that's a long time for a movie on average. And I know that's like a typical on average time, but you know, this movie easily could have been an hour and 45 minutes, and it would have been okay. But at the same time, that extra half hour to 45 minutes more meant more breathing room for to see what's going on with Spartan Man, what's the deal with Bruce Banner slash the Hulk, what's who's this mystery character Sadie Sink is playing? And I'm still gonna say mystery character because there still is no confirmation, guys. But you know, there's a lot of stuff that sounds like it's happening in this movie based on the first trailer alone, not even touching upon what the leaked trailer is showing to the world. So um, I'm excited. I think two hours and a half is good time for this movie. I'm now looking forward to exactly how long when the screen starts, I'm gonna be enjoying that movie. So yeah, so and then to touch upon the second part. Yeah, so uh my brother and I talked right before we started this podcast, guys. We're not gonna go into too much details about this leaked trailer because it's not officially rolled out. We can discuss if this was accidental or this is part of a PR stunt because it's very fishy that if this is a real trailer that leaked out, it's not completely taken down from the internet. As a matter of fact, I wasn't even looking for the trailer when I pulled, I pulled up, guys, on my X account. Something popped up on my phone, a notification two nights ago. Ike was right here at our house about this, and it was related to Tekken, a video game, and right underneath it, it was playing the trailer. And I'm like, I wasn't even looking up this thing, and it's it's it's in your face, so it's bound to hit everybody with that big X and everything, but we won't touch upon it too much. We'll talk about the main thing everyone is talking about in it, which is the reveal of the Hulk actually being in the trailer. There is speculation, a lot of people online are gonna be saying it's the gray Hulk, the Grey Hulk is there for the first time in the MCU. I would argue that it is such, even though it's a high resolution leak, it is such a low quality lighting. And what you do see of the Hulk, it could easily still be a green Hulk. So I'm not jumping on board of the Grey Hulk thing just yet, because none of none of that has been official. This trailer hasn't even been official yet. Apparently, next week, and we're gonna talk about our next week multiverse minute, guys. Um, because apparently next week Sony is doing a presentation for the tickets being sold. That like they start selling these tickets for the movie next week. And I think that's this trailer officially will be released next week. So you get the full high resolution without any watermarks and all that stuff for us to be able to nibble on for the next month. Yeah. So but that that's my thought of that so far. Um that's the only thing everyone's talking about online is the Hulk being in this trailer. Um, we kind of suspected it, but no, nothing was confirmed yet until basically now it is. So what are your thoughts, like?

SPEAKER_05 18:36

So yeah, I it's definitely fishy. I don't know if it was leaked on purpose, um, but definitely wasn't uh they weren't in a hurry to take it down. Yeah. I will say the video you sent me to watch, I tried watching again today and it it that was taken down. Um, but it doesn't mean it just couldn't mean it finally was, you know. Yeah. But there's copy people that copied and paste this thing all over the place. So it was allowed long enough, guys, where you can go find it if you want to find it, pretty easy. Um, so yeah, and this isn't on that's not unnormal for Marvel to just, hey, just why not? Just let this go. Not all the things that like some of the actors like accidentally tell us in their interviews and stuff is a real accident. Like a lot of that is staged. I think there's been a few of like, well man, they did say something they shouldn't say, but you can tell sometimes that oh they did that, that's a purpose, you know. And that's just them tongue in cheek, having fun with it, right? Yeah, as for the trailer itself, yeah, we'll break it down when it comes out more. I will tell you this, it is confirming fears I have, though. Oh. And I gotta tell you, I am if this is the ex-I'm just gonna say if, because you know, we might get the real trail and find out all that was bullshit AI, which is, I mean, if you guys have seen AI lately, some things are like, oh my god, it's getting there pretty possible, pretty close. Or or it might, you know, it might be out of context, but it looks pretty legit, guys. And it's coming from sources that people are saying it's legit. And I don't think we'd have talked about it if there wasn't people that we listened to that made it sound that legit, to be honest with you. And I gotta tell you, I'm a little nervous. I'm not saying this is gonna be a bad movie, but I am preparing myself for it not being the movie I wanted, and that's me personally taking my own advice and not taking ownership over what this should be and just letting them tell us the story they want to tell us. Because I do believe now, if you were to ask me, I would say I'm about 70 to 80 percent positive we're not gonna get that Spider-Man Central movie that we really wish for. And that's because of what we saw on his trailer, you know? Yes, the Hulk's got a lot to do with it. I was really hoping they'd just take the high road with the Hulk and it'd just be Bruce Banner. I really was. Um, so I'm a little disappointed it's not. Of course, they're capitalizing on it. Cool. But the other thing is in the trailer they insinuate that he goes to Frank Castle and says hey, there's no one else I can there's no one else I knew I could turn to, which makes me realize he might be a little more than a cameo. And that kind of bugs me. I just want a freaking Spider-Man movie, guys. Like I really would like a movie where, and for the first time I'm saying this, where let's not bring someone else in and find out every reason we can to not let them show up and let this be just about Peter. Now we might be pleasantly surprised. Two hours and an hour, two hours and a half could be a lot of just Spider-Man and all these sprinkled in. I just I just feel though, from that trailer though, it made me go, oh no, oof, this is gonna be Spider-Man and Friends again a lot. And that doesn't mean it's gonna be bad. Hell, it might be great. And I'm not saying it's gonna be bad, so I'm not I'm not telling you. Just for me, though, it was a good humble check of okay, take a step back, Ike. You want a Spider Man centric movie, you're probably not gonna get it. So I'm accepting that and moving forward. We'll talk more and get more in depth about that when we actually have a Trailer to chew out and talk about more. Because right now, you know, it's it's kind of like eh, it's not really officially out there. We were just more gonna talk about whether we thought they released it on purpose. And I I don't know. You know, I they're definitely taking their time taking it down. Um, I feel like if they released it on purpose, they wouldn't be taking it down. So I do think they're welcoming the leak, but I don't think it was a planned leak, if I had to guess. But I think they're kind of like, man, we're so close. Let's just not make a big deal about it. You know, if this was a few months ago, I bet it would have been out quick and oh man, that didn't happen. You know, they probably would have been more scrambling. But you're talking this movie's coming real soon. This trailer was coming soon, anyways. So I feel like they're just like, nah, crap, they beat us to it. And I think that's kind of they're just letting they're just being quiet about it, and then they'll just release the darn thing. And that it's probably the smartest way to do it.

SPEAKER_01 22:49

And I will say about trailer leakage, this Sony in particular, when it comes to like their Marvel movies, yeah, just between this movie and the last movie, they've had trouble keeping some stuff internal. If you guys remember, before the No Way Home trailer came out, there was a leaked version of that that didn't have the full CGI done yet, and that actually prompted them to release it prematurely, the trailer. And it was full CGI and it was good and brilliant and all that stuff, but at the same time, unfortunately, Sony has had a history of not being able to keep things in check when it comes to this stuff, especially as big of an IP as a Marvel property and Spider-Man to boot. Um, I know there's rumor out there of stuff with the doomsday trailer possibly being already like in the hands of people that shouldn't be. I'm not buying any of that because I've never seen that through a Marvel Studios Disney-owned property that that's ever been a problem. So I really do think that trailer is not out there. I think people are just calling bluff or just rumor mill news type thing that we're not even gonna talk about, really, guys. Right. But uh for this, there is some validity to a real trailer being leaked. And like Ike said, we might get to next week and it's a whole completely different trailer, and either this was AIBS or this is the trailer they intended, but they decided, oh, everyone's seen it now. We can't use some of these certain scenes. Let's save that for the movie, you know? Yeah, and by that point, we're gonna be so hyped on seeing the movie, anyways. We'll brush by a couple of those little scenes we saw in the leaked one because it's gonna look better anyways on screen. Yeah, yeah. So, anyways, do you have any more to comment on this?

SPEAKER_05 24:35

No, I'm that's yeah, I think that's as far as we need to give it its attention, really. I still I'm excited to see the movie, but I did have to have to temper my expectations a little from what I saw. I was not that I was disappointed, like it didn't look bad, and guys, like I said, it's probably great. It just it wasn't necessarily what I wanted right now, and I I'm I'm okay with that. Just as long as the movie's good.

SPEAKER_01 24:55

So I'm gonna say, just as a caveat to that, I'm not at Ike's point yet, but if the confirmation comes out that Sadie Sink is indeed Gene Gray, I will be exactly at your point. Yeah, I will be going my right now, my hype for this movie is about like a 90 to 95 percent. The only reason why it's like five to ten percent lower is because of the rumors surrounding this is Gene Gray, how much of the Hulk's gonna be in it, how big is the Punisher now gonna be, because I thought he was just a cameo and it makes it sound like this leaked trailer. He's got a little bit more to do of it. Uh I I hope he's like uh Matt Murdoch was in No Way Home. He is a quick cameo and be like, cool, you're done. Introduces the moves. That's it. Yeah, exactly. Um, but if they come out and confirm the Sadie Sync is Gene Gray, I will my hype for the movie will drop down to at least 75% because that worries me.

SPEAKER_05 25:51

Well, that disappointment stretches past Spider-Man, though. Yes. If that's the case, it's to make us more worried about that character than the actual Spider-Man movie.

SPEAKER_01 26:00

Yes. That's the thing. I'm gonna be going into the Spider-Man movie at that point thinking what they're gonna do with Gene Gray. It's Spider-Man's movie, but yet because you've added a character like that who shouldn't be added, I'm gonna say that even if this movie is a great movie, I'm still gonna say that you shouldn't add this character into the movie. Even if you tell a fantastic story, it's just it's selling your X-Men short already. I'm sorry, it is. So then you got Spider-Man. Just make a Spider-Man. Just make a Spider-Man movie. Like, I don't know. Like, I don't get it. Yeah, it's anyways, guys. See how it goes. Questions for you. What do you think of the runtime? Does this matter to you? Does it not? Um, do you agree with myself or do you agree with Ike and when it comes to fleshing out the characters of that runtime? And also, like, what do you think of the leak trailer? Don't get into some heavy spoilers in the comments because you're gonna see the exact trailer, or not the exact, but the official trailer, I should say, coming out within the next week or two. But like, what do you think about this leak? Was it intentional? Was it not intentional? What do you think about the Hulk? And do you think he's gray or green? Comment down below. All right. I'm gonna touch upon our last topic then for the multiverse minute, guys. So Wyatt Russell, the US soldier himself, he gave a little bit of advice when it comes to preparing for Doomsday. Because just like how Ike and I are doing, one of the big reasons why we started the podcast, besides all the X-Men stuff, which is a huge reason, but also the uh getting ready for Doomsday. We're like, we want to watch every movie, let's just record ourselves talking about every one of these movies, and you guys join us along for the March to Doomsday with us. Well, his advice to the March of Doomsday is don't need to see anything else. This is what he says. So he spoke to Screen Rant Wyatt Russell, the son of the great Kurt Russell, and he recently gave some advice leading into Avengers Doomsday. He says, forget about it when it comes to the MCU homework. So let me pull up his exact I have it written down here, guys, exactly what that was all about. Um, this was taken from Yahoo.com, their entertainment spot. And let's see, his exact quote is quote, I hope that people can go see that movie and just throw away those predispositions from talking about it online. Seven years of buildup is a long time. And like, just go have fun, dude. I know you've been talking to some guy online for 10 years about what's going on or wrong about this character or what's bad about that. Just go enjoy it and forget about the nine years of talking about it. It's really not the way a movie's supposed to be enjoyed, and you're just setting yourself up for failure if you do it that way. End quote. All right. I got a couple of thoughts about this, but Ike, why don't you touch upon it first? What do you think?

SPEAKER_05 28:53

So I'm gonna be that guy. I think this is a nothing burger. I really do. I think that this is just him saying kind of what I've also been saying for a while now, is tame your expectations, folks. Like we can sit and analyze and discuss and talk and theorize and be this character, that character, and this has got to be that and this and that right down to the bone and tear these movies apart like we do on this podcast. And he's just saying, guys, just go watch it, just go have a good time. Don't let that, don't let that get in the way. And I think that's just him. I don't think that's got I don't think he's saying anything about this movie. I don't think he's seen the movie. I don't think he even knows entirely what happens in the movie. No, I just think he knows whatever his part is, and that's probably it.

SPEAKER_01 29:43

He probably doesn't know the context of his parts.

SPEAKER_05 29:45

Some of these people come into these movies and they're like, I when I saw it in its entirety, I was like, oh wow, this is what we did. You know, and so I think he's just trying to tell people, uh, I'm not one for all that rumor and what should or shouldn't be. Just go watch the movie, have a good time. I mean, he just said a lot of words that might get people worried if you're gonna read into it. That's my personal feeling. I just think he's saying, guys, forget the homework, man. Just go watch it for what it is and have a good time. Of course, in the long run, I think he does understand that you you probably would have to know the MCU to go into Doomsday, right? Like it's not that's not, I don't think he's insinuating that you don't need to know the MCU to watch Doomsday. I just think he's trying to tell you, don't read into it so much so you can at least enjoy the movie. Because I feel like I feel like this movie is gonna be interesting in that sense of you're they're either gonna hit it out of the park or it's gonna be hated. I don't think there's gonna be a lot of middle ground with Doomsday. Doomsday's either gonna be awesome. Mark my words. It's either gonna be, wow, that was amazing, or it's gonna be like, oh no, what are we doing? I don't think there's gonna be like, yeah, it was all right. You're not getting Avengers Age Ultron with Doomsday. No. It's one or the other. Because of its decisiveness, because of what's going on and like how big it is and like what we're bringing back, who's coming back, how people are showing up, why they're showing up. We're in an era of the MCU that's been rocky already. This movie either slam dunks or it fails. And I think that he just wants, he's trying to set it up for the slam dunk by saying, just go watch this and see how you feel. Nice promoting his movie. Yeah, calm down because you might not get what you expect. And if you expect too much, you're definitely not gonna get it anyway. There's lots of times I've overhyped myself, and there's no worse feeling than being like, it's gotta be this, and then you watch it and you're like, oh, it's not that.

SPEAKER_01 31:35

She isn't even confirmed yet.

SPEAKER_05 31:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:37

We got that way after the first trailer, Spider-Man Brandon and Day. We were like, Gene Grey, uh, then all of a sudden we're like, wait a minute. We overhype ourselves sometimes.

SPEAKER_05 31:46

Yeah. I I a famous story a long time ago. There's a movie called A Place Beyond the Pines. It's got um Ryan Gosling in it, and uh what's his face? It plays Rocket Reactor, uh Bradley Cooper. And the movie looks like this really cool heist movie set in like the Appalachians where this Carney guy who drives a motorcycle in like this dangerous pit for people for fun also robs banks, and he's being hunted down by a cop played by the other guy, and it looks like a great cat and mouse heist movie. I went and watched the movie, and it is not that movie at all, and I didn't like it. And then, but later on, I've seen the movie again and realized, oh, this movie is brilliant and it's fantastic, and it's actually probably one of the best movies out there, like one of the best movies of its time. But it's just my expectations were too high of what I thought I was getting into. And that wasn't the trailer's fault. When you go back and watch the trailers and realize, why did I why did I think this was different? And so that's what I'm trying to say, and that's what he's all saying. He's just saying, guys, just hey, look, set aside all that stuff because you're gonna talk yourself into hating it if you don't. And I think that's kind of what I'm trying to do the same, even though we've made it our job now to do that. So, like, we're a little more, you know, we're not the average movie goer. I suggest to the average moviegoer, yeah, just go watch the movie and have fun. Yeah. Us Marvel nerds, yeah, we'll geek out and we'll have a good time. But yeah, you you also gotta please us as well. So I'll say it's a mix, but I do think this was I wouldn't read much into what he's saying. I don't think it's got anything to really do with the movie itself or anything like that. So how about you say where you at with it?

SPEAKER_01 33:20

All right. So I actually have similar feelings to what you have on this. I to be honest, it is kind of a nothing burger. And this is there's two things that come to my mind when I when I read his comments and we added to our news uh topic um today, is that um Kevin Feige has said he's trying to get back to basics with some of this stuff where you don't have to do so much MCU homework. And I think he's kind of echoing this here. I think if you were someone who drifted off after Endgame and weren't too sure about all the other stuff, the highs, the lows, hoping this one's gonna be MCU's comeback, and it turns out really wasn't that much, and then the next one, the next one, the next one. I think all he's just saying is look, guys, just go watch this movie. Because I think the Russo brothers know this, Robert Downey Jr. knows this, Kevin Feige knows this. People that they lost after Endgame or stopped at Endgame, they can pick up right back off with this new one. And you don't have to relearn all these characters, like Wyatt Russell's character in particular, who is a new one since Endgame. Um, also, this is this is kind of the medium that you guys are listening to than what my brother and I are on right now. We don't do this as our job, but we do this as a hobby, and so we are now part of the conversation out there in the internet. And when you announce a movie like this two and a half years, expect people to talk about it for two and a half years. That's why people got so up in arms about coffee, coffee, coffee, coffee. It's just it's just we have nothing else to talk about, to be honest, guys. We are at this point with Marvel, where once we saw Fantastic Four, other than Spider-Man, and that honestly, that is only coming out because that's Sony's directive. Every 69 months, they have to come out with a Spider-Man movie to keep the rights. Otherwise, if this was back at Marvel, I don't suspect we would have gone to the Spider-Man movie. They were purposely waiting well over a year and a half now for us to see the next Marvel movie. And what do you do when you have time on your hands? You talk. You talk, you talk, you talk, you talk till the cows come home, and when they come home and they leave, you talk again. It's just so he's just saying, chill out. If you want to listen to people online, talk about what they like about you, don't like about you, go right ahead. But in all honesty, for this movie, just go see it. Just go see it and see it for yourself. You make the determination what is your taste and what you like. Don't go off of what my brother and I are saying. We're gonna talk to you about how our favorite character in the Civil War is gonna be this and our least favorite is gonna be that. You might have a completely different take and different taste, and that's fine. The MCU is a variety, it's Skittles. Pick your color, go right ahead. Yeah. Um, taste the rainbow. But um, he's just saying that. Go watch the movie and make an informed opinion for yourself. But the main thing is go watch the movie because we want it to be over a billion frickin' dollars, guys.

SPEAKER_05 36:27

So And you know, and it's not a secret, they want us to talk about it. Oh, yes, anything talked about is free publicity. Like, yes, as far as as far as Feige and them guys are concerned, they're putting out there, oh yeah, stay calm, just it's all coming. But then they close the door and like, yeah, they're still talking about it. You know, and that that's that's why they do all this stuff. So it's fine, you know, it's just nothing against it. It's just it's there, it's gonna be there.

SPEAKER_01 36:49

They love. I can tell you what, I I don't know this for a fact, but it's gotta be part of their PR, their management team. They love when people like us are talking about that, whether we're loving on something or hating on it, because at the same time, just like Cardi B said at one of those award shows, even my haters got me number one. So that's yeah. So he does care that you guys are talking about it, but he's just saying don't exceed your own expectations. Just watch the movie and let them do the storytelling for you. Anyways, guys, question is for you. What do you think about Wyatt Russell's advice here? Do you think it's valid? Do you think you need to do a little bit of MCU homework? And by the way, if you need to do some, that's why our podcast is here. Watch every one of our retrospectives. We will get you caught up to doomsday on our march. All right. So comment below, let us know. All right, Ike, what are we swinging into next?

SPEAKER_05 37:41

So we're gonna swing right over and we're gonna jump right into the rumor mill rundown. Uh, can't wait to talk about a couple of these. A couple are real weird, but we'll we'll jump in and see how they turn out, right?

SPEAKER_00 37:51

This is gonna be fun. What a ride. All right, guys, buckle up.

SPEAKER_05 37:59

So here we are with the Gadell Multiverse. Now we're gonna be going on to our rumor mill rundown, guys. This is gonna be exciting. I can't wait to get into this stuff. Oh, yeah. We found a couple really good ones that we're gonna have a lot of fun talking about, I think. Um, I think this is what makes the rumor mill rundown the best. We were just kind of saying it as we were setting things up that you know, you can just go wild on this stuff, guys. Like, who cares? What's you know what I mean? Like we can just let's speculate. I'm just down, let's speculate. Yeah. So I'm gonna start this off, guys, and Valhalla to the rescue or something, right? So a rumor circulating online and gaining lots of momentum is that after Thor's prayer to Odin in Doomsday, the gates of Valhalla are to open and surprise cameos of Jane Foster and Heimdell are to join the battle against Doom. What's this likelihood of this to happen? I mean. What do you think, Sammy?

SPEAKER_02 38:55

Okay, I got a weird thought about it. This is my thought. I like this rumor. Do you?

SPEAKER_01 39:01

I would suspect, and this is this is my true honest take on this, guys. Because of what we know Doomsday is gonna lead into with Secret Wars, I think when Secret Wars happens, I don't think there's gonna be any of the nine realms like that. Now, one of the things I'm gonna say real quick is because of how convoluted they've made the MCU thus far, I don't know the difference between the realm and the multiverse and the dimension and Lord knows what else is there. A timeline, a branch point. What I need is a big loophole, isn't it? I need Dr. Selvig from Thor to on his chalkboard in the nursing home there to write down bullet points and definitions like we did in high school. What do you Louise to tell us? Oh my gosh, that'd be funny. Yes. This is what this means. This is what this guy said. This is what this says. She said this. Yeah. Anyways, I like this. I endorse this rumor. I will say that this would be frickin' awesome if this happened. If Thor's prayer in the trailers that we've seen so far opens up the gates of Valhalla for one final war, because Odin, the all-father himself up in Valhalla, knows crap's about to go down now, guys. And you see Heimdall and you see Jane Foster's Mighty Thor, Lady Thor there, and all these other fallen ass guardian warriors go and fight against Doom. I don't know, I'll be very honest, if they're gonna make a Doom battle very epic in this movie, because there's a lot to introduce Doom and the setup. You're gonna get one in Secret Wars, hands down. But for Doomsday, I wonder how much of a Doom battle you're gonna get. You might have some, but I don't know if it's gonna be this grand of a scale. But what a testament and what a power demonstration if Doom defeats all of the Fallen Ass Guardian Warriors from Valhalla. You have the task in this movie of not only introducing your villain for the first time in an Avengers movie, which as we saw in Age of Ultron could go one or two ways. Honestly, retrospectively, y'all, of all the Marvel movies that you've done, or I'm sorry, of all the Avengers movies you've done, Age of Ultron is the only one to introduce and end the villain in the same movie. Yeah. Loki was introduced in Thor, brought into the Avengers, so we just had the luxury of knowing all these characters, and there you go. Infinity War, the exact same thing. Maybe you met some of uh Thanos' henchmen, but they're just henchmen. They're not the big bad. You knew of Thanos for phases upon phases at that point. And Endgame, same exact thing. Doomsday, though, is gonna be similar to Age of Ultron in that you're introducing your villain in this one movie. So it could either go one of two ways. And like you just said a couple minutes ago, Ike, they're gonna it people are either gonna love this movie or hate this movie. There's not gonna be a middle ground with this. This would be pretty cool if Valhalla opens up. Because we already saw it, we know it's existing in the MCU, and surprise cameo of Idris Elba. Idris Elba, right? Heimdahl? Yep. And Nally Portman, walk on out, and there it is on your left. Yeah. On your left.

SPEAKER_00 42:36

That'd be funny. That'd be really cool.

SPEAKER_01 42:38

But, anyways, um, I I like this. I don't know how it's actually gonna play out because I don't know what Doomsday's gonna look like so far. Heck, we haven't even seen them in the trailer, yeah. We're speculating the fun part. But I'm just gonna end this for my part at least by saying I like this and I hope that this actually happens. What do you think?

SPEAKER_05 42:58

So I'm gonna say this right off the bat, okay? I think this would look cool. Don't get me wrong. But to hell with this idea. I hope this does not happen. I do not want this to happen. I'm gonna tell you why. Okay. I'm gonna give you a couple good reasons. One big one is this is there's so many characters to go through for Doomsday, including Doom himself, that why give more time to characters we've already had a conclusion to? That and that goes right into my next point, is let's leave the dead dead. I think the Marvel Universe needs to have that solidified. And then my third point is what else do you want to take away from Thor? Thor's had everything take what kind of masochist are you, Samuel? That you want to take away vol you want to take away Thor's heaven. Thor he's lost his mama. He's lost his father, lost his brother a hundred times, you know, over and over again. All his friends, destroyed his own, his own, his own uh kingdom, Asgard, gone. You know, watched his friends die, lost Tony. Thor lose and lose and loses and loses, had to kill his own sister. Granted, they weren't that close, but hey, he had feelings about it. He even offered her truce because they were related. So now you want to take away Thor's heaven? Now look, we get rid of Valhalla. So if Thor dies, where does Thor go? He just takes it away. Poor Thor, man. All she's gonna have is his freaking hammer. Which we don't even know if he's really worthy for or not. I'm telling you, you know, I don't like, I don't like this. I don't like it. Here's what I'll tell you. If this is in it, then I want every single X-Men from my old X-Men in this freaking movie. Oh, well, if they're gonna bring these people back and make this thing and have this happen, there's no way they couldn't have backed the truck up to Halle Berry, to Famik Giants Janssen, and make sure we get Storm and Gene Gray. Because if it's just a matter of, oh, we don't have room for them, but you got room for these dead people? No, I'm sorry. I don't like it. I honestly I really did take the opposite of this. I do think it would look cool. Don't get me wrong. It would be cool. It would be a good power set to show of Doomsday. I guess he kills a bunch of already dead people. I get no, I'm just being facetious. I understand what the power of it means. I just think why though? Like, don't do it. We got too many characters that you should have that I hope you do have. And if you do have them, let's worry about that and let's leave the dead dead. I really understand when there's a reason to bring someone back for a certain reason for fun or like to have a story progress forward. But if you're bringing them back just for a cool cameo to watch them die again, I think you just I don't think the I don't think the weight will be there. Then I don't want to see Thor lose his heaven. Like Thor's lost too much. Like, unless you're killing Thor too. But that's not happening. We all know that's not going down. We all know it's not Hansworth himself is pretty much said so. Yeah, even Kevin Foggy. He's like, we got more plans with Thor. Don't do this. You can't kill him. Just don't do this. It would, it sounds cool on paper. I just don't think I think if you have to revert to this, then you are trying to nostalgically just stick us in a hole. And I think it would come across as that as a feeling. I don't think I don't think it would work well. I really don't.

SPEAKER_01 46:31

So can I throw out a couple of thoughts that just so you hear my point of view on your concerns? Yeah. If they do this, this is all rumors, guys. Might not even do any of this, but it's out there. So we're talking about it. The first thing you said is too many characters. Nah, this is what I thought. This is my exact thought. At the end of Endgame, you had every sinking character, and you did not need to elaborate on who they were. You just saw them in the battle. That's the same thing I would picture for something like this. You already know who Jane Foster is. You don't need her to intermingle with the X-Men and all that stuff. Just show the gates of heaven open up and they're coming to Thor's rescue as a latch stitch effort. And then they get slang. And they get slain permanently this time, get slang. That's the third part, but I'll get to the third one. Let me go by number two. There is this fear out there that you can't really kill a comic book character. So I I understand your concern about that. But how Valhalla was designed was literally for fallen soldiers to go there, have endless feasts until their final battle will emerge, and then they come out of the gates of heaven. If Doom is going to, which leads into the third point, reshape realities, take all these multiverse things and put them in the one timeline and cut out what he doesn't like that would be adversarial to him, you bet your bottom dollar he's getting rid of Valhalla. Because those fallen heroes that died during battle for Asgard and for the good of humanity and Asgard and humanity.

SPEAKER_05 48:06

I'd rather them come back in secret wars and help them win. That's the thing that Valhalla still exists.

SPEAKER_01 48:12

I don't think that Valhalla will exist. I think I think either way, Valhalla's gonna be gone. So you might as well use the characters that are there just for battle purposes and yes, show the strength of Doom at the same time. You don't need to care about Heimdall or Jane Foster, but she's they're there because that's where they went to when they died. Heck, Anthony Hopkins could show up as Thor riding in a chariot. Want to talk about a statement, Doom killing Anthony Hopkins? Whoa. I think it would look awesome. I'm not debating that part of it. Yeah. But I'm just saying that I don't think you need to introduce some like that's gonna be part of the too many characters things. I think it's that's that's just my point. I really do think most of this film, the cast that's announced is the cast you're gonna see. And then everyone else they get for reshoots, like uh we both agree that no matter whether they do this or not, the X-Men have to come back. I don't know what they're doing, but I tell you what, I will be sorely disappointed if every one of those X-Men characters are not there. Well, if they do this and we leave out them, certain ones of them, I'm gonna be like, really? Yeah, but I I'd be shocked. This looks like this is X-Men in particular, their last hurrah.

SPEAKER_05 49:23

I think they're hiding things that make us go crazy.

SPEAKER_01 49:25

Yes. Yeah, I agree. I don't I actually think it's gonna be like the Spider-Man thing. We're not gonna know Gene Gray or Storm was in this movie until we see the movie. And then that will be our in-the-theater reaction of oh my gosh, it's Storm, it's rogue with gambit, like a whole bunch of stuff. Uh I will not be surprised they're doing stuff like that. Because they did it with Spider-Man, and look how well that turned out. Almost three billion dollar movie. Anyways, so that's just my two cents on this. I get your concern.

SPEAKER_05 49:55

The only thing I have to say to combat all of that is this.

SPEAKER_02 49:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 49:59

And for me, it's for me, it's a mic drop. For me, it's like no matter what you say, you're not gonna get my mind away from this part of it. I agree with you. You I will concede that they can handle the character load. I I do understand that. I would hate to see so much, but okay, let's do it. If you're gonna do it, these guys can do it, right? We've seen it. Um, other than I don't, you know, give us characters that we really need to see, though, before we get ones we've already got. And it does make me worry about this whole idea, well, if they're dead, I don't know, everyone just can come back to like, oh, I try. But I like what you're saying, but I cannot, in my head, in my creative juices that I have of anything that I write, if I was given the task to write Thor's complete story in the MCU, whether how many movies from now it's gonna be, the only way his story ends is after he dies, he's at the doors of Valhalla. I can't see any other way of ending Thor without us knowing that he got to go where his people believe they should go for what they've done, especially him. So if they get rid of Valhalla, that no longer can happen. And that right there, it bot that would bother me. Because just like we want to see Steve dancing with Peggy, don't mess with it, right? Just like we just like Iron Man dying, don't mess with it. It's perfect. I want to see Thor go out eventually someday and be at the doors of Valhalla and open up, and then we see those people with a big old mug saying, here you go. And that to me, that's like goodbye, Thor.

SPEAKER_01 51:34

If we see it another way, it's just sad at that point. If if I if I was to clarify that for me doing this, if they were gonna do this, when they after Secret Wars and they do their MCU soft reboot, I would I think they would bring Valhalla back. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 51:50

You're pr and you're probably right. But to me, that that would you know what that would be? They'd be oh, so you're gonna do the same thing you did with Endgame. You're just gonna bring it back and fix it. What's the consequences then moving forward? It's like if you're gonna do it, then do it and commit to the whole thing. But I don't want them to do it to get rid of Valhalla. And I don't want them to just say, well, now everything goes back to normal. I think if we get through Secret Wars, it shouldn't go back to normal. There should be a whole new world that we're looking at because of these things that's happened. It shouldn't be like endgame where just see, now we're back to bulletin, everything's fine. No, I don't want that. Personally, I think that would be a cop out. Because they'd just be repeating the same thing.

SPEAKER_01 52:28

I think that things like the Nine Realms and Valhalla and things like that, those are constants that will always come back. If they destroy it, but then they recreate the universe that doesn't have all these timeline manipulations and it's back to what it was supposed to be.

SPEAKER_05 52:44

That's just what I mean. How's that not endgame though? How's that not repeating the same thing by bringing things back? I think that they need to stick to what gets lost. Then that means the X-Ben people are back in their own universe again, right? We get the end of Secret Wars. Are we gonna assume that Scott and all of them are alive back in their universe? They would destroy all those universes. If it's destroyed, I think this they need Marvel needs to commit to ending things and to move on, to make them real consequences. I understand what you're saying, but Valhalla might be an exception because it's an afterlife thing, and maybe that'll be the way they they they do that. It's kind of like yeah, they're gonna be a good thing. And that would that would that would I would make sense with that? I guess that would make sense, but if you're gonna do the thing that ends Valhalla and then bring Valhalla back, then why not bring other things back? And if you can bring other things back, then we're gonna be right back into the same multiversal bull crap that we were in this whole time. The idea is to end the multiverse. Yes. And I think their plan is to literally end things for the multiverse to happen. So by doing this Valhal thing though, ends Valhal for Thor. And I can't see a better ending for him other than him ending up in Valhalla. That's my problem I have. And if I feel like if they just put things back to normal, I feel like you're just doing you're making Infinity War and Endgame over again. And they I don't think they can do that. I think the real consequences need to happen. I understand that there might be people that die in Doomsday that might come back for Secret Wars, because that's kind of like the story arcs of it. I understand that. But by the end of Secret Wars, I don't think I think there needs to be solid this is gone. When the X-Men universe is destroyed in Doomsday, it's gone. Mm-hmm. Or whatever universe that they're destroying in them in the beginning that we hear all the rumor is, right? It's gone. So if Toby Maguire's world gets destroyed in the beginning of Doomsday, like all the rumors are out. It doesn't come back, then it's gone. Toby Maguire might come back in Secret Wars, but there's no more of his universe afterwards, as far as I'm concerned.

SPEAKER_01 54:54

Well, see, that's they gotta stick with that. That's another thing.

SPEAKER_05 54:57

Which means Mary Jane and his kids are dead. Which means we have a lot of things to think about. So are we really gonna take these away from these characters? I think I hope they go dark. I hate to say it, guys, but I hope they end these with an end of like, oh no, that's solidified dead. I'd rather my X-Men die going out fighting than then go through all this to just do days of future past again and go back like nothing happened.

SPEAKER_01 55:22

Well, see, that's that's why I don't think that that's gonna happen this way. And how I would compare this is this is not like ending a multiverse for Valhalla. Valhalla kind of like Earth is a constant. Even if they reshape the whole world back after Secret Wars and you're back to just one singular timeline, no more multiversal TVA nonsense stuff. You still have a heaven and a hell, you still have the nine realms, you still have all that. But we don't know. They're just piecing we don't know that, but I feel like the most logical sense is what they're trying to do with Secret Wars is end the current MCU that we know because mainly they got all their properties back, but introduce how it was supposed to be, how the MCU with mutants involved, with all these other characters involved. And I don't I don't think that that's supposed to take away things like Valhalla or the Nine Realms or Asgard. I will even see Asgard be back to what Asgard was in the Thor time, because part of me just doesn't like it on Earth. They're gonna have to be clear about that then.

SPEAKER_05 56:24

Yeah. Because you can't just pick and choose because you like it and you don't want it to go away. It's either it's gonna be that or it's not.

SPEAKER_01 56:31

But that's what that's why I only say that. I think Valhalla is one of those constant things. It's like heaven. Heaven's always constant, and then Thor's heaven is Valhalla. Right.

SPEAKER_05 56:40

And and I think I am thinking along the same lines as you. I think you're correct. But there's no evidence in the MCU to say so right now. No one's ever said that. That's the heavy lifting that the Russo brothers have to do for these different things. If they come out and they say, Look, this after death stuff is something you can't touch. Yeah. Okay, okay, we got something to work with here. As far as I'm concerned, Thor's Valhalla is in this universe that we're in. If this universe gets destroyed, which it's shouldn't be, because this is the one we're saving, right? Then he loses it. And the and the idea to the Valhalla is once they all go fight, Valhalla's gone. It's over. There's no more Valhalla after that. Even if your people are still alive, there's no more Valhalla after that. So like if you do that, it's like so even if Valhalla is constant, the act of Valhalla happening, of them coming to fight, is the end of their heaven in their in their religion. So it just it it takes it all away from the Thor. So what I'm the what I'm trying to say to you is like how Valhalla Valhalla works, they go there, they eat, and they feast, they drink, and then they're called to their one last fight, then heaven's gone. Even in their universe, it's gone.

SPEAKER_02 57:53

If that's what they do here, Thor never gets to go to Valhalla. Well then when they put the universe back together.

SPEAKER_05 58:00

But that's just it. If we do that reverse thing, that's when I feel like you can't pick and choose, and you have to explain that. And if you do just put it back together, why not put the rest back together? Which means this multiverse thing can happen again. Which means, wait a minute, aren't we getting away from this? I just I don't want them to use the same, we're just gonna fix it, and it all goes back to normal. I want the consequences to be real. Because if they fix it and just goes back to normal, we just watch Infinity War and Endgame again.

SPEAKER_01 58:29

Well, what I hope they do between this movie and the next movie, whether they touch upon this or not, because even if you take this specific topic out in Valhalla, yeah, when I don't think they're purposely, one, they're all hyping Doomsday right now. No one's talking about Secret Wars. And two, even when you're preparing for Secret Wars, they're not gonna talk about what's after the Secret Wars, because they want you to be prepared for Secret Wars. We're probably for the next two years, guys, not gonna know how their version of the mainstream MCU is gonna look like. But I do have faith with the Russo brothers at the end of Secret Wars, it's gonna be told to us.

SPEAKER_05 59:04

Well, and that's what makes this our this is what makes our little back and forth so hard to do, to even have, because we don't know the mechanics of any of that. We don't know what that means. Like you, I I love your take on it. I hope that's what it is, because that would fix my problem with it. But if that's not the take on it, then it's gone. And and I might be the only person out there that wants to see Thor go to Valhalla, but I do too. If I were to write that Thor's death, the last thing I'd see him do is those doors open and everyone be like, hey, what's up, buddy? You know what I mean? Like there's no I couldn't imagine any better ending for him. So like I just don't take that away. So if you're not gonna take it away, and then don't just pick and choose, though. Make me understand why that stays then and why that comes back to what it is. And if as long as it works as I understand it, I'm in for it, right? I'm not completely against it. And I'm not against them repeating what they did with Endgame and uh Infinity War. I just I just think they're smarter than this. I think they can do better. And I think that if we're gonna do a soft reboot, I think that only equals consequence. And I think consequence to it is finalizing some of these. Yeah, if Toby McGuire's universe gets destroyed, guys, stick with it, man, and destroy the darn thing and be good done with it.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:17

Because I'm with you for all that. I really am. It's just for me, I'm I'm just in my brain, I've like, yes, I get multiverse is collapsing, Toby's gone, Andrew Garfield's universe gone, all that the X-Men that we know of, their universe is gone. That's probably what this whole doomsday movie is really about, to be honest.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:33

Truthfully, you're probably right.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:35

But the some of the constants is every one of those universes has an earth, every one of those universes has a Valhalla, a heaven, a hell, things like that. And that's where just logic for me is that when they restart the universe, your same constants, you're gonna have space, you're gonna have earth, you're gonna have the nine realms, because Thor sticking around, you're gonna have Valhalla. That's just in my my mindset. It's not it's not doing the endgame thing of reversing stuff, it's doing a rebuilding. That you can't reverse what Doom does, but you can rebuild from what he did. Right.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:15

They would have to stray far from Norse mythology, though, then, because in order for Valhalla to do the this means it ends that then. So I think they already did. To be honest. So, but yes, they have played with it already.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:27

So the Valhalla thing, they have strayed from Norse mythology to a degree. Right now, I would say that most of the Thor stuff that we see is Norse mythology party city version. It's it's actually pretty close, but it's like it's definitely grandeurized. I guess it's a good thing. I mean it that way too because Val the warriors of Valhalla, from my understanding in Norse mythology, only get out of Valhalla for their last battle that is Ragnarok. They're waiting for Ragnarok. Right. They've already had Ragnarok. So if they're gonna get out for a final battle, it makes sense to me that it's doom, because they don't know that after Secret Wars, the universe is gonna be recreated. And so to them, this is their final hurrah. Yeah, no, you're right.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:13

So it's it's a little, it's a little convoluted. Yes. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:17

But I just however they do it. I get you're worried because myself per purpose personally, yeah. If I was given the task to write Thor's final film, his Thor 7, The Last Ass Guardian Warrior, whatever you want to call it.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:31

That's a great title. Like Last Ass Guardian.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:35

There you go. That worry, he's what we talked about before. He's like the silver age daddy Thor with the big muscles like Logan.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:42

It's like Logan, but Thor.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:43

Yeah, Logan but North mythology with the the long braided Norse hair that's white with like a big scar down his eye, because all the stuff he'd been through, all that stuff. I would want his ending to be he walks through the gates of Valhalla and he sees his mother, something like that. Oh, yeah, yeah. That would be to me like a cherry on top for his ending. So I I don't think that they would want to take that opportunity away from us if someone actually does it. But for something as grand as this, and they're trying to think of ways to demonstrate Thor's power, or I'm sorry, Doom's power to all of us. Yeah. What make us care that this is your big bad Doctor Doom? Who else are you gonna slay but the fallen warriors of Asgard?

SPEAKER_05 1:03:29

All right. So I think it sounds awesome. Yep, it does sound awesome. I just don't ruin for it.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:36

Yes, I completely agree with you.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:38

If you could do this around this guy, it's like it's because man, I'm telling you, if you if you take Valhalla away and it's just gone, and we leave a sad thorough so you know even my heaven's gone, I'm gonna be pissed.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:49

Yeah, he's lost so much.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:51

You'll be pissed. He's lost so much. I wanted the montage, he just opens the door, and there's Jane, there's his dad, there's all these people, and then just as he turns the corner, there's Loki. It's like or they do the the handshake quick and black screen. Come on, you guys tell me that wouldn't be so good. Yeah. Because the Loki he's seeing is the Loki that died when Thanos broke his neck. Yeah, because that Loki really is dead. That's right. Yeah. How wild is that to think that that could be what that is.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:20

Yes, that'd be so awesome. Oh my god. All right, so question is for you guys. What do you think of the validity of this rumor? Do you think in Doomsday the gates of Valhalla's gonna open up, Jane Foster, Odin, and Heimdall are gonna be riding out and be taken out by Doom? Or do you think that this is a little too far of a stretch for a rumor and that maybe you'll see this type of interaction, but it's in secret wars? Guys, let us know in the comments below what you think.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:44

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:45

All right. Ike, take away, or wait, did you you started the Valhalla?

SPEAKER_05 1:04:50

Yeah, so you go ahead, you go ahead and bring uh what's your face in here? I'm yeah, we're gonna talk about Barbie for a second, y'all. Yeah, guys. I mean, did you ever think that you have the MCU and then be like, yo, why isn't Barbie in this? Like we need we need we need housemaiden Barbie, we need Yep, we need D.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:05

Like Life and Plastic, it's fantastic. So, with that said, after turning down, which I thought this was an interesting fun fact for y'all, after turning down the role of Sue Storm in Fantastic Four First Steps, actress Margot Robbie, best known as Harley Quinn in the DCEU, says she's still in contact with Marvel, and rumor has it she's being eyed for another major Marvel role after Secret Wars. So fan speculation says that she will be Emma Frost in the new version of the X-Men. But will there be another character more suiting to her? What do we think, guys, of Margot Robbie joining the MCU? Um, Ike, I'm gonna let you take away this first because I got some strong opinions on the fan speculation part. So I will start with the easy stuff.

SPEAKER_05 1:05:54

Uh, adding talent to anything is a good idea. And she's a talented actress, and I think she Be great for a role in the MCU. Um I do think that when you're in talks with Marvel and things don't fall through or go through the right way, I think you're always in talks with them at that point. And just like how Ryan Gosling has probably been talks about other stuff, and someday it either works or someday it doesn't work.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:18

Look at Chris Pratt, he was in talks for the longest time than he finally got his role.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:22

Russell Crowe was another one. He was in talks and talks and talks and finally they found Zeus. You know, so like it may not have been the role they may wanted him for, so certain things, but he he took the what he took and he and he did it for fun and it was fun. So I think this is a great idea. I think it's cool. Um, I wanted to ask you really quick before you tell your opinion, because I want to give you an opinion on the fan one too. Is there any kind of weight behind her playing Emma Frost? Or is this just like a lot of people saying this would be a cool one?

SPEAKER_01 1:06:51

I I don't think from what I've read, and it could be very limited to this, guys. Um I don't think there's any weight behind her specifically for Emma Frost. I think that when people found out that she's in talks, the immediate first thing they thought of is a character like Emma Frost because she has the physical appearance that she could be type thing.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:15

Yeah, and I think that that's the mistake you're making that people are making. I I think if you're gonna look at her and think who does she fit as, don't do that, guys. Because you can take a lot of these actors and actresses in these movies and I mean look at the person who plays Nebula. She doesn't look like that. You know what I mean? Like and and look what she's playing, or Kate Kate Blanchett as hella. That's not the first person I'd have thought of, you know? So um, if it's true that Emma through Frost is in talks of that, say there is weight to it, if there was, seeing that we're speculating on a rumor mill here, then it'd be nice to know that they're giving due to that character that deserves to have like a big part, because you're not you're not you're not casting Margot Robbie in a side part of Emma Frost for a 10-minute part in a movie. That means Emma Frost is gonna be a big part of the movie, right? Um that would be great, and it'd be a great casting. I think she'd do a great job at it, and they'd be taking they would be taking that part seriously. What I think it's it is gonna be is not that. I don't think Emma Frost is a I I want it to be. I want them to give Emma Frost her due, but I don't think they're going to. I don't think that that's on their radar, and I think you're gonna be talking about her doing a villain. I don't think she's gonna be a, if I had to guess, it's not gonna be, hey, be this character for the next 20 years. It's gonna be will you come in and do like what Kate Blanchett did and be an awesome villain. And I think she's gonna give that a shot. That's how I feel about it. Um, I think that's what she's waiting for, too, is a juicy role to do once and have a good time with.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:54

So my two cents on this. I'm gonna let you guys in on a little bit of my um taste when it comes to the X-Men or just mutants in general. Emma Frost is hands down from the comic books, my favorite mutant of all time. She plays a great villain, and then she plays a great hero. She's conniving. Pardon my friends, she's a bitch, but she's designed to be that way, and her looks literally can kill. Like they make sure they go the extra mile, and she doesn't mind to be a little scandalous, and more power to her. So she is one of my favorite characters in uh Marvel Comics. I like Margot Robbie, she plays a fantastic Harley Quinn. It is hard for me to imagine anyone else playing Harley Quinn because she is that good at it. And I'm not trying to typecast her at all because I've seen other movies Margot Robbie's been in that she does have good range. She's a great actress, she is definitely a beautiful actress, perfect role for Barbie, like really, really good. I do not see her as Emma Frost, though. And it could be part of what we've talked about before of us taking ownership on certain characters, but I don't think she has the look for Emma Frost, nor do I think she has the acting chops for what they want accurately for Emma Frost. Not saying that she couldn't do it, I just don't think that I think that would be a little bit of a challenge to do it consistently. Emma Frost would be a good point if to your point, if they were gonna cast her as a villain, but they wanted longevity with her as an actress, Emma Frost would be perfect.

SPEAKER_05 1:10:36

I think that's why she said no to Sue Storm. Because how many movies is this gonna be? And they're like, Yeah, a bunch. And she's like, No.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:43

Yeah. I want to do one of these. For Emma Frost, you she's a villain for two or three films, and then she becomes a major X-Men core for the rest of her appearances. And you can't just, like you said before, you should not signline her. That's one of the only things I'll say about the Fox X-Men universe, just as a personal thing for me, that I wish we got more of was Emma Frost. We do get her due eventually, and we haven't gotten to that retrospective yet, but believe me, I will touch upon it. Because like I said, I love this character to death. Um, I don't see her as Sue Storm, and nor would I, as a fan of Emma, want and a fan of Margot want her as Sue Storm. No. So I I do think that Marvel's gonna learn and say that characters like Emma Frost and Storm should get their due in the MCU, and when they do, it's not gonna be a one and done or just a background side character. They're gonna have a presence of some sort. They're very good at balancing all these characters when they do have the right people behind them. But I can easily see her, though, as a major role in the MCU, maybe for a villain, or maybe for a hero. Uh it depends. I don't know how burnt out she's been from Harley Quinn, because that was a commitment. And she's a villain, but that was she was a favorite villain to the point where they offered her what type of Harley Quinn movie do you want to do as a solo project, and she picked Birds of Prey. It wasn't they they had like three different versions. It's not as bad as they make it out either. No, it's it's not awesome, but it's not it's not that bad. No, it is what you expect it to be, to be honest, guys. But anyways, we'll get there when we get there, because I do have strong opinions on that too. But for this topic in particular, I do think Margot Robbie will be a great addition to the MCU. I don't know in what capacity. I don't think, nor do I want it to be Emma Frost.

SPEAKER_05 1:12:36

Yeah, and I I gotta, I'm gonna be the bearer of bad news to you, Sam. I I don't want it this way either. Um, but I don't think that Emma Frost is gonna be on their radar to make a big character. Probably. I why I say that.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:52

There's so many mutants, I get it.

SPEAKER_05 1:12:54

Well, there's so many, and I just don't I just don't know if that's where she's someone that you and I appreciate. You you definitely a lot more than me, but not I mean, I I definitely would love to see the version of her we should get of because what we know of when we even wrote it in our own fan story, you know what I mean, where she becomes a big part because it's such a good idea, but I don't think she has the popularity behind her name.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:21

Oh well that that I will I will say that I think that she does. In this your average moviegoer though, they know Wolverine, they know Storm, they know Skyclops. They like a drama character. Well they do, but but I just don't know if she's gonna if it's gonna be anytime soon. For the comic book fans, like we're gonna talk about Civil War, and we're I'm gonna touch upon some of the comic versions comparing to the movie versions because that's what we got for the source material guys. She is in the Civil War comic, only for a couple appearances, but she is the main X-Men focal point appearance. Yeah. And then the recent X-Men comic runs of Kirkkoa that they've been that they just ended, she's the reason they had the Hellfire Gala that became a big deal. That's why I said her looks can kill in the beginning of this. Because is she gaining momentum in the comic book community in that sense?

SPEAKER_05 1:14:11

Because if that's the case, I could be eating my words. When I I just don't know. When I if I we were to pull Daryl in here and say, Daryl, what do you think of Emma Frost? He's gonna be like, Who? And that's all I'm saying.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:20

You know, no, because I think your general audience may not know of her because they're centralized, like what we see in the Fox X-Men universe. They they're centralized on certain core X-Men characters, good guys and bad guys. But if you talk about the X-Men community, there's not one soul that doesn't know Emma Frost. And she is that influential that she took Scott away from Gene Gray and became his uh wife. Yeah, and that was a big deal scandal in the comics. One of my friends I like it. One of my friends and I always fight back and forth. He's like, Your favorite woman is a is a man stealer. And I'm like, Well, your favorite woman always faints, so I go back and forth all. She's also the Phoenix. She is, yeah. And Emma at one point in the comics was able to take on the Phoenix Force. Yeah, see, she follows another great women's footsteps.

SPEAKER_05 1:15:10

It's just I like Emma Frost, but don't be messing with my gene. Great.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:15

I get it. I get it. I'm a I'm a gene apologist too, but also if I had to compare, I have a shirt I should wear at some point. It's one of those you ever see that meme of the guy and girl walking, and the guy's looking behind him at a hot girl, like, ooh, I have one exactly like that. That's Emma and and Scott and Gene. And you have Emma right there, and then Scott's looking behind, like, ooh. I'm like, she's one of my favorite shirts. I should have worn it. But it's Civil War guys, so I have to wear my red, white, and blue. Anyways, um, so yeah, that's that's what I think. I think Emma Frost, she's a big deal. When I went to an X-Men convention in Minneapolis, Minnesota, um, called The Uncanny Experience. It's not my favorite cup of tea. I'm probably not gonna go again, guys. But if you do love X-Men, you do get a lot of X-Men treats there. Emma Frost is all over the place. Her picture, the um the cosplayers, so many people love her. I think Margot Robbie they'll do it. Yeah, I think she looks should be too on the nose for the looks-wise. Well, I just don't know if she would do the I think she could act the hell out of it. I think she's a better actress than I would even argue I don't think looks-wise, she'd be able to have it. And I'm not saying you need a beauty queen. Emma Frost is not a beauty queen. Uh Margot Robbie is gorgeous. I'm not saying that at all. I'm just saying that from what we see of different iter, of course, comic iterations, they're not always gonna look exactly when you put them into the screen, but she she has a certain presence about her that I don't see Margot Robbie taking on something like that. Yeah, I mean, I don't know. She could, yeah, but I doubt it personally.

SPEAKER_05 1:17:01

I don't think that's the kind of role that Rob Margot's looking for anything. I I agree. Yeah, yeah. I I agree. I but I do hope I hope they give Emma her day. That'd be great. She's a lot of good storytelling there.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:13

She is something. Uh any of you who are listening to the audio version of this podcast, we do have a video version, and I'm telling you right now, um I'm just saying this right here, but I'm I'm also editing this podcast. Some of these pictures are on your screen right now, are just some of Emma Frost's looks, too.

unknown 1:17:30

Whew!

SPEAKER_01 1:17:31

I tell you. Anyways. So questions.

SPEAKER_05 1:17:35

So we're not gonna get Rosie O'Donnell as Emma Frost.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:37

Oh my god. I don't even know if I'd cast her in anything.

SPEAKER_05 1:17:42

Or Roseanne. She'd be a great Emma Frost. Oh my gosh. Actually, I got the best fan right fan casting right now for Emma Frost right now.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:51

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_05 1:17:52

Danny DeVito. I'm kidding.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:56

I could just picture him in the blonde wig. I'm just doing this all the time.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:02

All right, question is for you guys. What do you think of Margot Robbie joining the MCU? Do you think if she does, she'll be playing Emma Frost? Do you think another character will be better suited for her? Uh, what are your thoughts on Emma? If she's even gonna be front and center of the new version of the X-Men. How are they gonna do her? Are they even gonna do her? Comment below and let us know. Alright, take it away for our last topic, I think.

SPEAKER_05 1:18:25

Okay, guys, here's our last topic for the rumor mill. Let's let's speculate big time. This is a big one, all right, guys. The death of Bucky? I mean, when are soldiers gonna end? Oh boy. In a now deleted tweet from Industry Insider Beyond Reporter. One of the new Avengers is expected to meet their end in doomsday. Fans online, while speculating who it could be, suggests that none other than Sebastian Stan will be the casualty. Could Bucky Barnes end a streak of the longest surviving MCU veteran?

SPEAKER_01 1:19:02

Now that's a that is actually a cool fun fact. Then every single phase of the MCU, Bucky has been there the longest of all the characters. It's pretty wild, actually. Well, m maybe with the exception of Thor, to be honest. But uh appearance-wise, he's appeared in a lot of stuff too. I don't know. I'd have to look up some of the specifics and see who is actually the the longest standing, but he was for the longest time uh considered to be uh the MCU veteran from his films, anyways. Um you want me to start first on my two centers?

SPEAKER_02 1:19:40

Go ahead. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:41

So I don't know how I feel about this because I like Bucky so much, and we're about to talk about him in our episode today, guys, with uh reviewing Captain America's Civil War. He is front and center in this movie. He uh and Sebastian Stan is such a good actor, and just when you think maybe he's had enough, he comes out with the Thunderbolts, and it that is probably and when we do a retrospective on it, we could give you a fuller opinion on it, but it's a little bit frustrating in our minds because one of the latest ones, since Winter Soldier and this movie, that has been the best Bucky we've had in a long time is Thunderbolts. So he still has it there, and fans still love him and have that fire for him. So I hope he doesn't end, but also for the character of Winter Soldier, I can see that happening. I think, of course, he's gonna be in Secret Wars because everyone's in Secret Wars, guys. But for this movie, that would really pull at your heartstrings if he dies. I don't know. And Steve coming back and seeing that happen, I don't know. I it would be something. We would definitely be crying in our seats in the theaters, but I don't know. What are your thoughts on this thing? I got two thoughts.

SPEAKER_05 1:21:03

Okay. One, this is a nothing burger. This is he's at the end of a contract. It's part of why this came from. And it's and this has happened all the time. Oh my god! Like, no, they just gotta renegotiate. Don't worry about it. Don't worry, he's just gonna renegotiate. Yeah. This happens all the time. Robert Dunn Jr.'s done it at least nine times, so don't worry about it, guys. Um I am gonna throw a hot take out there and make a wild prediction about Bucky and going forward in the MCU. I think Sam Wilson dies and Bucky finally gets the final character arc that he's supposed to have and forgives himself for what he's been through and becomes our new Captain America.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:00

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 1:22:02

I might be wrong, but if it happens you heard it here first in the Goodell multiverse.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:06

Oh.

SPEAKER_05 1:22:06

And I'm not saying they're killing Sam Wilson because of him being bad in the last movie and it didn't work out, or that I just think it would make better for the characters. It it just I think Sam would it'd be great to see him doing the best he can to hold up the Captain America America mantle. He does that ultimate thing that Captain America would do and does sacrifice his life for something to happen.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:28

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_05 1:22:29

Give him his due, but Yep, and then later he's gonna be memorialized for it. He's gonna be known as one of the Captain Americas that we've had. And they're gonna have a platform, a statue right next to Cat, all that stuff. And then you're gonna they're gonna turn to Bucky and say, and he's gonna be the one that has to because it's him right now that's holding himself back from not feeling sorry for himself all the time. He's his worst enemy, his own worst enemy at this point. So finish his arc and make him Captain America so he can train the new Avengers as we go on further. I like that. That's what I think so much. I I yeah That's all I got. Other than that, I think you just people are just you're reading too much into it. Of course, someone's gonna die in this movie somehow, somewhere.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:23:14

Duh. Well, yeah, I mean, what do you what do you think is gonna happen? Like someone's getting it, someone's biting the dust. They have to. Um, and they're coming back for Secret Wars, and then other people are gonna bite the dust. And I So it's just gonna happen. And and yeah, sure, Bucky's one of them that's on the expendable list because we've we've been through a lot with him, but I think there's a resurgence. I think they're gonna correct their stuff. It is gonna be because New Brave New World sucked, and everybody knows it sucked, and we're not swallowing the pill of Sam Wilson being Captain America. Sorry, you guys, you know, it's got nothing to do with him as an actor, Anthony Mackey. It's got it's nothing to do. I love him. I love him. Yeah, no, it just isn't it's the writing, it's not there. It's not there. And it's nothing to do with race, it's just it's not first thing I said when we watched Thunderbolts is I can't believe we just watched a movie where we had the guy who should have been Captain America in it. So many all the things Bucky did in that was Captain America stuff. The from the speeches to all everything he did was what that's what Steve would do. And he needs to recognize that in himself. Steve is Steve because he looked up to Bucky when they were younger. Some of what Steve learned in the right and the wrong and things to do, and Bucky was there for him. He stood up for this weakling little guy. Bucky did stuff that Steve wished he could have been. That's why Steve loves him so much. Bucky's more flawed than Steve, but Bucky also has been mind controlled by Hydra for a long time. And he's dealing with that, like we'll talk soon. He's been dealing with that, you know. He needs to get over that. You know, the way he gets over that is if he picks up that mantle and that's what he's gonna do, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:48

Yep. I completely agree. 100% hands down, and I think that that's something they should have done in the beginning, but they didn't. And now part of the storytelling that they're gonna do, and the Russo brothers would be the people to do this, is they're gonna do make that happen. Although they are the ones that kind of gave Sam the shield, but at the same time, well, they didn't know they were gonna get that piece of crap movie after that either.

SPEAKER_05 1:25:09

Right? I think they had a great idea, it just didn't work. Yep.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:12

Yep, and I blame the writers of Brave New World. I do think that we are gonna get deaths, like you said in this movie. I think most of those deaths are gonna be X-Men deaths. Yeah. And for two reasons. The the biggest reason in it, one is to end the Fox universe. That they're that's what they're trying to make this point. And then two, we have two iterations of the the X-Men. And I think this is the goodbye for the original X-Men, and then the goodbye for the later X-Men that we got is gonna be Secret Wars. Yep. With the Mac James McAvoy, Michael Fassbender, possibly Jennifer Lawrence, the um Sophie Turner, all of them, Alexander Ship, they're all gonna probably be there in the Secret Wars one, and that will be their send-off because you could do it, why not? Um, definitely start the X-Men the fresh clean slate in the next phase moving forward. Yep. And I can see this happening, but I much prefer your version of this. I don't think I I can see them trying and killing a lot of people in this movie. I just don't see them being too many of the MCU ones that we know. It's gonna be more of the ones we're gonna be introduced to in this movie. Because we don't have those types of we okay, your average MCU goer doesn't have their hearts connected to the X-Men like your longtime X-Men fans, like you and I do. So for us, it'll be a gut punch. For them, it'll be like, okay, demonstrating Doom's power. Now moving on to the next movie.

SPEAKER_05 1:26:46

And we don't need to repeat this with Steve either. Yeah, it doesn't always have to be about him losing Bucky. He's got enough to fight for in this. It doesn't need to be for Bucky. And we don't need to see him cry over Bucky dying. Yes. We need him to protect his baby now, his child.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:01

We've seen Steve mourn over Bucky twice. Yeah. In Captain America, the first Avenger, and then uh in Infinity War when Bucky got dusted up. Like we don't need to see that again for a third time.

SPEAKER_05 1:27:17

Steve's focus on the family that he's got now. Yep. He doesn't it doesn't need to be focused, it doesn't need to be this losing Bucky again. Yeah. So I just think that don't repeat. You know, just have Bucky have a part. Maybe he dies in the first one, comes back in Secret Wars, however you want to do it, but ultimately he's he's the one with the shield at the end. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:35

I agree. All right, guys. Question is for you. What do you think about this rumor here? Do you think the Sebastian Stan is gonna say goodbye to the MCU and um die in doomsday as Bucky? Do you think that he's gonna, if he does die, will he return to Secret Wars? Or do you like Ike's um hypothesis, something that I actually think is really, really cool, that Bucky finally takes up the shield in taking on the mantle of Captain Merrick? If there has to be another one. The question is for you guys. Let us know in the comments below. All right. We are off to one of our newer segments of the Goodell Multiverse podcast. I'm overprepared this week. This is going to be fun. We are going to trivia takedown. Let's begin.

SPEAKER_05 1:28:26

All right, everybody. Welcome to the trivia takedown part of our show. This is where Sammy and I are going to compete a little bit and go back and forth on some things. And we don't have any judges yet, so we're just going to do this in good faith. And both of these today, it's not so much about picking each other's apart. It's just about agreeing on which one of us come up with a better and more creative way of doing it. So we'll be honest with each other, talk about what we like and not, and we'll weigh which ones were better. Our first one that we're going to do, guys, is going to be evil all along. I like that you how you put that. It's going to be so I have Iron Man. I got to go through and explain to you how I think Iron Man's been the main bad guy this whole time. And Sammy's got to go through and explain how he thinks Hawkeye's been there the whole time. So then the next game we have is a reimagining, basically, where I pulled out of the thing that Al Pacino is Mr. Fantastic. My God, I'll tell you what, I come up with a story that I think I'm going to get something thrown at me tonight. And uh then Sammy had Russell Crowe as Mr. Fantastic, and I can't wait to see what he's got there because I think he's got a couple good ideas. I mean, I haven't heard him yet, but it looks like he's he's he's ready for it. So what we're gonna do, guys, is we're just gonna have Sammy start with Hawkeye about being evil, and then I'll jump into Iron Man and we'll discuss, and we'll go into the next one, and I'll have Sammy do Russell Crowe's Mr. Fantastic, and I'll go into El Pacino's Mr. Fantastic and pitch our thing, and we'll just kind of discuss it and see who wins, and we'll keep tallying up the points. I think so far we're 1-1, right? Yeah, we're one-one so far. Yeah, if we if we if we take from our last one, yeah. You you won you got you put Steve Rogers in jail over Kit Kat Bars. Yeah, wild to me. No, no, but but I but I definitely uh had a good uh Oh, your disaster draft was pretty good.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:10

Yes, it was good. So, guys, you better go back and watch those episodes of the take the trivia takedown because that was pretty darn admiring. Yeah, we I had a lot of fun with those.

SPEAKER_05 1:30:17

I had a lot of fun with this one too. I gotta be honest with you. I had to dig deep about Iron Man because I'm just like, man, how am I gonna frame Iron Man as a bad guy? So, guys, I went from Iron Man 1 all the way to Doomsday with Iron Man. I have quite a layout. It's changed my view on Iron Man in a bad way. I have to I gotta take a bath, listen to calm music, maybe you know, hum a little bit and get back to liking Iron Man because I made myself hate him.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:46

Oh my god. So I I saw Ike's notes ahead of time. I didn't read them, I just saw them. Yeah. I feel underprepared. But um I the we had so much going on this past week in getting ready for the Civil War retrospective that I did take time, of course, to flesh out my thoughts on these two game topics. But I I think the next time we do something like this, I'm gonna have to dig down deep and be a little bit more of an over-preparer. But I'll start off for evil all along for Hawkeye. This is let's hear it. This is my take on Mr. Clint Barton. Ooh, seeing bitch being evil all along. And it's actually, I think Ike's gonna like one point I'm gonna make. Yeah. In particular. So, Hawkeye, he's such a likable guy. And I think that Ike's gonna say the same thing about Iron Man that to try to imagine them as bad guys this whole time, it it is a task. It is a task for both he and I to do this. But I think it's easier for Hawkeye to be thought of as a bad guy than Iron Man, in my opinion. One, we don't see too much of him. So there is a lot of ambiguity when it comes to Hawkeye. What is he doing when he's not center stage, when he's not with the Avengers? And if he's with the Avengers, is he doing something nefarious and we just don't really notice it? So, the first appearance we had of him in Thor one was he was part of SHIELD. You could just chalk that up as everyone's part of SHIELD in that movie. What I'm gonna get to for my main my main stick on what he is, I think, if I was to make him evil, or that he has, if I was to prove to you, I should say, that he's been evil all along, is that he is a sleeper hydra agent. I think to prove to you, and Thor won and even Avengers won, Shield is SHIELD. No one knows a Hydra's infiltrated it. We don't know who is Hydra, who is Shield, who is what. It wasn't until Captain America, Winter Soldier, when that curtain was unveiled. I think that's why he wasn't there. Not so much that he valued his family over Steve and Natasha that I've argued on this podcast about. I think part of his secret agenda was he wishes he wasn't there. They weren't there, I should say. That maybe his friendship with Black Widow, he doesn't need to take her down because sometimes when you're in undercover, you may grow a fondness to your friends. But I think that he purposely didn't show up because he kind of hoped the Black Widow did disappear.

unknown 1:33:40

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:33:41

And he hoped that Steve Rogers did disappear. Obviously that didn't happen, so he kept up the charade. I would even go so far as to say I don't think his wife knows he's a Hydra agent. Wow. He has this picture perfect life at home that he wants to keep separate. And my theory of backing that up is look what he does as Ronan. Now he is shown in uh I know I'm skipping ahead just a little bit here, but let's face facts. Between Avengers 1, or I should say, between Cap Two and Infinity War, he's been still kind of a little undercover to the Avengers that he is a bad guy or not. But really after that, after Endgame, I think he uses the excuse that a shield, a former SHIELD agent is not watching him when he's home and everyone disappearing, so he could do what he's wanted to do and terrorize the world as Ronan. And he uses the Ronan persona, so no one outside of Natasha knowing that that's him, and she just feels bad for him because he lost his family. In all reality, he's been planning to do stuff like this for a long time, and now he has the freedom and less eyes on him, he could run around and do this stuff. You can say some of his things were noble. He was taking down mafias, but was he taking down mafias and gangsters and the yakuza in Japan because they're bad guys? Or was it for less competition in this already world where half the people are gone? And then what's going on in Hawkeye? I think that his secret is going to be released, which is one of the pivotal points of the Hawkeye show. But not that he doesn't want people to know he's Ronin as a bad guy, but maybe there's some secrets tied to that that he doesn't want people to know he also is a Hydra agent and everyone's back now. What do I do? I would say that he still has Hydra tendencies, and that if given the opportunity, he will sabotage the Avengers. That is probably the best argument I could be able to give. I know that in Endgame he said he'll go back and he'll see his wife and all that stuff, and maybe he he had a touching moment because she was his wife, but at the same time bad guys got lovers, right? Yep, they do. But I think he did it just to see if he if he'll work. Not because he wanted to see them, but he wanted to see if what they're actually doing is something that's gonna actually work. And I think he puts on the charade that Natasha sacrificed herself for the soul stone and did this whole thing of I'm gonna do this for you because I care about you. No, he didn't. I think that was just an excuse he could be able to say to them, I tried, damn it. Did you try that hard? Just saying. So that's that's all I got to say about Hawkeye. He's one evil son of a bitch. It's pretty good, I'm not gonna lie. There's a lot of good stuff in there. Like he's a sketchy guy. Any of them agents are sketchy. What is anyways? So in Age of Ultron, his wife says, When you're gone, you're gone a lot. You have unfinished projects around a house. She's not complaining, she's just pointing out some she's giving us backstory on Hawkeye. What is he doing? He's not just in the Avengers. Is there some Hydra meetups he's doing? Is there a reason why it took so long for them to find a scepter?

SPEAKER_02 1:37:46

Just saying. Alright. I like it. Well, guys, I gotta I gotta present Iron Man to you. Guys, boys is tough.

SPEAKER_05 1:37:59

So hopefully this makes sense. So guys, Tony started like his stated goal was protecting the world, but whose actual pattern of behavior was steadily concentrating power, surveillance, military capability, and decision-making authority all to himself.

SPEAKER_02 1:38:27

It's not that Tony is evil in the traditional sense. It's I think there's evidence of support that he was pursuing pursuing a balevolent dictatorship and was willing to sacrifice freedom, privacy, and even lives to achieve it.

SPEAKER_05 1:38:53

Tony Stark's secret plan throughout the MCU was not to save the world, it was to make himself indisposable to it. Every major decision he makes increases his personal control over global security, information, tech, and even superhuman activities. You could say he creates crises or crises and then positions himself as the only person capable of solving them.

SPEAKER_02 1:39:26

So let's just go to some examples throughout the MCU, okay?

SPEAKER_05 1:39:36

Is it that believable that all the time that they were building and selling weapons, that as smart as Tony Stark is, being one of the smartest people in the world, that he's that surprised that when he gets captured by terrorists, that oh, bad guys got a hold of my weapons too? I mean, I don't think it's too hard to figure out that if you're a weapons manufacturer and you're making a bunch of different kinds of weapons and they're being sold across the world to people to fight wars, that sometimes those weapons are gonna end up in the wrong hands. But he acts like it's some amazing revelation of, oh my god, I gotta change my whole life, view, and everything, my whole company's gotta go down well because it was all aimed at me and blah, blah, blah. It's like, wait a minute, you're like the smartest person in the world. Basically, he's one that's one of you could arguably say that Tony Stark's biggest ability, if it was gonna be anything superhuman, would be his brain, because it's ridiculous, really, if you think about it, right? So now he just figures it out just because he got captured. I mean, that's that's suspicious. Okay, I get it. Hey, you know what? Maybe, maybe so. Maybe he's just living that Playboy life and that money and didn't even think about it, wasn't involved and didn't think about it until it was in his face. I could give Tony that, but to to have that much of a turnaround, though, you you really would have to believe that, oh, okay. Yeah, no, I like you're kind of dumb then, right? Yeah, you're kind of dumb because that's obviously this is what happens. It's not the first time in the world that's ever happened before this point for Tony. I mean, it's actually recorded history in World War II. He would know these things just through history itself.

SPEAKER_02 1:41:18

And remember, you have to also remember the way he was.

SPEAKER_05 1:41:23

And his famous lines in the first movie was what he would say. Do you remember Sam? We says, It's peace means having a bigger stick than the other guy. You know, that it's funny, we laugh and we get it, and yeah, cool. But man, that sounds like someone that's just as like the only way to really get on top and be the one that's best or be the one that saves everybody is if I'm scarier and I have the weapons and I have everything that they don't have. Even after he becomes Iron Man, it's not diplomacy to Tony. It's he uses the suit as that big stick. You know, it he even uses the suit as the big stick. I think that him being captured by the terrorists was just a catalyst that threw him into this vendetta of I'm gonna do something about this world because that can't happen to me again. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:42:18

Which kind of brings us to, you know, he creates and he manipulates problems, then solves them for his own image. Uh you know, stark weapons fall into terrorists' hands, so he becomes Iron Man and comes out and you know has this big war on terrorism.

SPEAKER_05 1:42:39

You know, and Iron Man too, he refuses government oversight, claiming ownership of tech, basically saying, just trust me with my own stuff.

SPEAKER_02 1:42:50

Positions himself above the government at that point.

SPEAKER_05 1:42:54

And then let's talk about Ultron. It's very clear, I think this might be one of the biggest parts of the biggest, biggest things of evidence, to be completely honest with you, is Ultron, in my opinion, if you really look at it, was his first attempt at world control. I mean, first of all, he's secretly creating him, talking Banner into doing it. Let's not even ask everybody, let's just do this. You know, it's like we're not gonna ask any permission, we're not gonna try to explain ourselves to nobody. We're just gonna make Ultron, you know, and he's gonna save everybody. He's gonna keep the world protected, everything's gonna be fine. So he secretly creates Ultron without permission, manipulating and using the excuse of having to have a suit around suit of armor around the world. So having Tony's personality in Ultron actually reveals Tony's real side.

SPEAKER_02 1:43:47

Okay. So the problem is, is it doesn't work.

SPEAKER_05 1:43:52

And Ultron goes bad. So it takes that part of Tony that is bad already, and he becomes bad. So Tony has to again, oh man, this did not work. So he uses the Avengers to basically fight off Ultron, which is that other version of himself, which is facing him right in his face, basically. I I I think Ultron is is definitely his smoking gun, if you really think about it. Because Ultron he went evil because Ultron follows Tony's philosophy to its logical conclusion. If you think about it. Ultron's a mirror to Tony's true self. So now he needs to play along and use the Avengers to destroy that thing that has turned against him, which was himself. And he didn't see it coming because this is, you know, this is what a mad genius scientist does, right? So as he progresses, you know, through the MCU after this, he creates AI systems, global manipulating systems, uh autonomous drones, all right, predictive technology, gathering information on everybody all the time. Wouldn't you think a villain seeking world domination would need exactly these kind of things? Would be doing exactly this kind of stuff.

SPEAKER_02 1:45:24

Well, I got a hole of the page, folks.

SPEAKER_05 1:45:31

So Tonya is smart enough to know the Sokovia chords are wrong and misleading, and we're gonna get into that when we get into Civil War.

SPEAKER_02 1:45:41

Um But what better way to get superpower people outed, basically?

SPEAKER_05 1:45:52

So he's going to be on the side of this because now he doesn't need to go find them. It's they're gonna have to be found or they're gonna become their criminals. And he's the one that takes up kind of like the mantle in this sense. Sure, Ross gives him a hard time, but that's Ross's job. But it's like all of a sudden Tony has oversight over this thing. Didn't they just argue about the idea that the Avengers needed oversight? But here he is overseeing, capturing Captain America, who becomes a criminal because of the Sracobia Courts. It's really strange how that worked out for Tony, right? Of course it did, you know, because that's what he's doing. He's manipulating, he's doing all that stuff. And maybe his biggest smoking gun is Edith itself, okay? So remember how Edith was, right? He leaves it with the one that he has most influenced. Think about how he's treated Peter Parker. He goes and he finds Peter, outs Peter to his face, hits on his aunt, who wouldn't, much such a man, hits on his aunt, and then he leaves Peter Parker at arm's length all the time. No, you're not gonna be doing this. No, don't go involved here. No, you're not ready to be Avenger, this and that, blah, blah, blah. Bull crap about more than the suit. Yeah, it all sounds great, but he's manipulating Peter. He doesn't want Peter around the other Avengers yet. He wants Peter to become his henchman. And Peter's going to, because he likes Tony. Because Tony's put on this persona. He's doing it. Peter becomes his unwilling henchman, so why not leave this technology to this kid just like that? I mean, he's already kind of grooming him, so to say, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:47:23

Would that be the per the perfect word to use for that?

SPEAKER_05 1:47:29

And think about it, this Edith thing, what does it do, guys? I mean, it's got global surveillance, it's weaponized satellites, I mean, drone strike capability, intelligence gathering. I mean, gosh, guys, even like even what it stands for, even dead, I'm the hero. I mean, sure, we can laugh and say, oh, that's so Tony, but read that again. When you think about if you put it in the context of someone that wants to have this kind of capability over people and this kind of power over the world, even dead, I'm the hero. I mean, that's that's as big as the ego gets when it comes down to super villain guys. I don't know what to tell you, but that's how I kind of I mean, that's how it reads to me. You know, Tony has successfully created dependency, to be honest with you. The Avengers, you I mean, they use they use his funding, they use his facility, they use his technology, they use his AI. Even after he's dead, they use all these things.

SPEAKER_02 1:48:25

And oh yeah, I did this on purpose. We'll get there. And Tony always uses fear to justify anything that he's doing.

SPEAKER_05 1:48:35

You know, with New York, we need more suits. You know, after Ultron, we need more oversight. After Civil War, we need more regulation. After Thanos, we need more advanced systems. I mean, it's whatever he can come up with that puts him on the front line of whatever we need to do, that's what it's gonna be, right? His biggest adversary, though, was Thanos. That's for sure. But with a team that he has that he's manipulated soul time, he was able to still make himself the one to do this game-changing thing by using time travel. And this is actually where Tony discovered the piece of the pie that he's been missing this entire time, which is magic. The first time he sees Doctor Strange, he doesn't know who he is, he has no idea what's going on. He actually thinks he's selling them uh tickets to a magic show down the street. That's the joke, remember? And he calls him a wizard, you know, he's just goofing around with him. Tony's being introduced to some of this stuff for the first time. The only magic he understands is Wandas, and that's not even described to us as magic, really, until we get to Doctor Strange in super in uh multiverse of madness, where there's no Tony, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:49:49

So Tony's discovering magic and he's seeing this.

SPEAKER_05 1:49:54

So he decided he would make the rule, and he was gonna do everything by all means. Means necessary, right? Yeah, his right hand, they had Pepper, you know, who defin who definitely is just as evil as him. She's been doing nothing but laying in bed with him, whispering in his ear, probably helping him out, you know, souping him up, getting, come on there, buddy, you're doing this. Oh, yeah, Pepper means a lot to him, for sure. But she's just as bad as him. That's they want the same thing, pretty much. You know, Peter Parker is a soldier and Pepper as his right hand man. I mean, come on. This guy's got a good plan. He's got a good plan. Well, Thanos. Thanos comes along, and you know, and his plan starts to it's not good. So Thanos comes along, and his new plan is to do away with Tony himself. To just outright take what he keeps struggling to manipulate.

SPEAKER_02 1:50:47

Learning about magic, he fakes his death while taking Thanos out at the same time to move on to his next plan.

SPEAKER_05 1:50:57

Now that he's dead and gone, with his scarred face, he goes off to become doom and come back and take over the rest of the world the right way. As far as I'm concerned, guys, Tony's been the bad guy this entire time, disguising himself as a good guy, because it's exactly what a real bad guy would do. It's all manipulation, it's all narcissistic, all things that he's admitted to be. And he's doing it right in front of everybody's face. And now he's realized he can't do it as Tony Stark. So now he's gonna do it as Doctor Doom. And guess what? Snapping those stones to gear to Thanos gave him that face. So that's what I'm doing, and that's what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_01 1:51:48

That's Tony's arc to become Doctor Doom. Well, you just gave me an epiphany that I wonder if in Doomsday why he looks like Tony Stark, it's because he's dreamwalking in Tony Stark's body, because that's his multiversal I mean, that'd be wild. Just okay. I know that that's we're in the trivia game, but as he's saying some weeds right there he just pulled out that that is the storyline, yeah. That immediately came out into my head, and I thought maybe that he looks exactly like the endgame Tony because he's the multiversal variant that's doomed.

SPEAKER_05 1:52:23

Just like I wanted to that, anyways. So that is my argument to why I think Tony's a bad guy this entire time. I hate it. I hate it because it is it actually is pretty solid, I think, when you really peel it apart. You go, yeah, that makes sense. That does make some sense. Because Tony is an it's easy to see the bad side of him, which is what made me think this was gonna be easy from the start. But then you look at all his actions, you're like, man, you can't like discount all so you had I had to go through and pick even the good things he did, he did for bad for for bad intentions. And and when you're manipulating people, you look like you're on the good side, but that doesn't necessarily mean that you are.

SPEAKER_02 1:52:59

So that's what I got. Let's discuss what do you think? I love your your story.

SPEAKER_01 1:53:08

I love your uh breakdown of um Tony being bad all along, and I agree with a lot of your points in this hypothetical, because of course not this is all video game or video games, sorry, this is all game guys. But it's the matrix. Yeah, this is the blue pill. Um this it's you're pretty convincing. This is what I can see the road of doomsday being in an alternate universe. It really isn't that bad. No. I don't I'd hate it. I'd be happy to do that. Oh, if they make this continuity-wise, like in the mainstream MCU, yeah, it's bad. But if this is if this was how it's explained in like a montage thing for an adjacent MCU and how he Tony Stark becomes Doctor Doom, redoes his name after everyone thinks he's dead to become Victor Von Doom, all scarred up with a mask on so no one knows, and then we see him in the movie as that's why he's looks the way he does. That'd be pretty cool. That would be pretty cool. That way it doesn't in the movie Doomsday, it doesn't diminish what we know of Tony Stark, but at the same time, it shows what you just laid out how Tony Stark could be evil all along. Yeah. But, anyways, for that reason, I do like that.

SPEAKER_05 1:54:35

I think I did all right going through the entirety of the MCU. You did. And trying to pick, like, I think the I think the Ultron thing to me was the smartest part. I had to do a lot of thinking, but it hit me. I'm like, wow, what if Ultron was that side of him that he's been hiding from people?

SPEAKER_01 1:54:50

I think that that, like you said in in your thing, that is a smoking gun.

SPEAKER_05 1:54:54

And I think that they don't see it that way because they just see it as the robot thinking logically too logically. But but what it really is, it's his personality, but it's what he's been hiding the whole time.

SPEAKER_02 1:55:05

Yep.

SPEAKER_05 1:55:06

Yeah. And that's what his AI is programmed to do. Right. And to me, that's like, well, and Edith is a is a scary thing. I mean, geez, Peter Parker literally just like put an attack on one of those classmates, and the thing was gonna do it. Like, I mean, I know it was a silly scene, but if you really think about it, there was no kind of like your hand this over to the kid. Yeah. There's no like somebody else has to agree to this thing coming down and just murdering somebody.

SPEAKER_01 1:55:30

And why why him? Why not Pepper, who's still alive? Why not Morgan?

SPEAKER_05 1:55:34

Save it for her for later in her life. Because he's been grooming him. Because Happy and Tony are in this together, Pepper's in on this, and they're the only ones that are close in. Who's Peter gonna side with every time?

SPEAKER_01 1:55:45

When we do our retrospective from Far From Home, I'm gonna be thinking about that now.

SPEAKER_05 1:55:49

I don't like it because I don't want to think about that.

SPEAKER_01 1:55:51

You do, but you know what? It does make logical sense. It does. Yeah, and like you said about the Ultron thing. Um that's a big one to me. Because Ultron says that he wants to do what Tony wants in peace on Earth. Ultron thinks the only way to do it is get rid of the Avengers, but what if that has been Tony's motive all along? You know what it was, and he uses Ultron to do it. But yet it it at the end, see, Ultron takes us to the next extreme. It's not that Ultron's gonna get rid of the Avengers like Tony wants. Ultron wants to get rid of all human race and everyone become back as machines. That's basically what he said to Wanda when she was able to read him. So that's when Tony is like, Oh, there's a fault in my programming. It's a me. You're so close. But yeah, yeah, I won't be alive.

SPEAKER_05 1:56:44

So therefore you have to go that way. Which is funny because as logical as Ultron is supposed to be, and all that's supposed to make sense, which if you look at it from a cold, logical, no god kind of sense of reality, Ultron's right. Right? Because even Vision says that at the end of Age of Ultron. He says they're doomed. He goes, Yeah, they are, but there's something beautiful about it, right? Yeah, yep. So he's Ultron's right. But so why would this AI thing have one of the most basic human things if it wasn't something that came directly out of that person that that created them, is to hate Tony so much. Because he hates Tony. They make it a point in the movie to say, oh yeah, he hates you the most. He hates you the most, yeah. It's like, why though? Because it'd be illogical to just hate Tony. You know, but he hates him because he's Tony is pretending to be the opposite of what he really is. Yeah. He's really just a mirror in the long run. He hates hypocrisy. That's right. Which is Tony in his eyes. Ooh, that's I mean, that's the cement right there, dude. That's yeah. I like the Hawkeye thing, though. I really do. I think he's shown too much compassion, though, unfortunately. Well, okay, he could be keeping a secret, and I get I do get a lot of that.

SPEAKER_01 1:58:09

I see how I painted him is he's still a double agent, but he's more like a cowardly double agent. Yeah. He knows he's not strong enough to be like a Thor.

SPEAKER_05 1:58:17

He's kind of like the lost, lone soldier of Hydra. There's nowhere has nowhere to belong right now.

SPEAKER_01 1:58:21

Yeah, yeah, and not just that, even if he did reveal himself, he's not powerful enough to defend himself.

SPEAKER_05 1:58:28

What's he gonna do?

SPEAKER_01 1:58:28

He's he is Hydra Agent adapted to survive.

SPEAKER_05 1:58:32

The only part of yours that didn't convince me was the stuff in Endgame. I was with you, but when you said he didn't care, I'm yeah, I don't know. That's you can't get the Soul Stone unless he loved her. Anyways, so that kind of negates you have to, you they have to love each other. Dann says love for Gamora. That's right. You have to love each other. So that had to be real for you. So maybe he maybe I mean he you can still say he's a bad guy, still loves Natasha, though. Because like I said, I think Tony loves Pepper. Like bad guys can have a wife. You know what I mean? Like it's like so. I mean that doesn't that doesn't actually doesn't negate it. It just it just If you sold it differently, then yes. I think if you just would have instead of saying he didn't care about her, yeah, you should have said that he loved her, even though he was still a bad guy. Because he did. They did like there's like a there's a family love there. He did the Thanos thing, yeah. Because he had to get to Soulstone, yeah. But I don't know. I don't know. I I'm not saying yours is bad, but I kind of really am proud of this argument.

SPEAKER_01 1:59:30

I'm gonna I will say that if I'm comparing both of them, yeah, you have a couple more steps ahead of me, uh points I would say ahead of me.

SPEAKER_02 1:59:41

Yours is more. See the thing about Hawkeye. Yours makes more sense.

SPEAKER_01 1:59:49

Does that make sense? The only reason it makes it would make more sense is because we don't see as much of Hawkeye, so a lot of him is a very conjecture, yeah. Yes. There's a lot of ambiguity, like I said in the beginning of this. Of what do we really know of Hawkeye? Yeah, not a lot. We know that he's an Avenger, but is he an Avenger because Natasha recruited him after Loki thing?

SPEAKER_02 2:00:10

Right. Easy way to hide face is to turn against the guy that just brainwashed it. And he does go on Cap's side to keep in civil war.

SPEAKER_05 2:00:24

Yeah, he would go on the side of the guy who's a manipulated, you know, bold hydra agent. I was gonna say Bucky's his friend. Yeah, they just don't know each other. Right. Yeah, it's no, it's good. I like it, like I said, it's it's it really is good. I definitely had to rely on manipulating things and framing and reframing what things look like. So I think because from a sinister side, because the Edith thing is real freaky if you think about it. That is that is a really good thing. Especially when you're like, you know, even dead, I'm the hero. Like it makes sense. It's creative, but like it makes sense in the way we've seen the universe. But if you actually now put it under the context of what if he was the bad guy the whole time, that's actually a very evil thing to say. And the context of a grown man giving this to a kid in high school still. Yeah, it's actually a pretty evil thing to say. I can see an evil villain twirling his thing saying, even dead, I'm the hero. Because villains see themselves as the hero. That's what Thanos would have said.

SPEAKER_01 2:01:22

Well, then villains are very narcissistic and egotistical. That's exactly what Tony is. Yeah. That's why when we get into our Civil War talk, this is a big, big swing for Marvel to portray him as the bad guy. But you lay out the groundwork where he really could have been all along. So I think what we'll do, because we really don't have a judge for this, is we're gonna let our audience be the judge. And so comment down below if you think that Ike is more convincing for Iron Man to be a villain all along, or if I am more convincing of Hawkeye being a villain all along. And by our next episode, we'll reveal the answers. If you comment, please do comment so we could be able to at least read them out loud. If not, we'll just verbally hear from those that we do know that listen to this podcast and tell us yes or no what they think, and we'll we'll reveal the majority's vote at that point. Alright, like it. All right.

SPEAKER_02 2:02:21

So the next game and our last game of the segment, y'all.

SPEAKER_05 2:02:28

So the next game, guys, is basically a reimagining of a character. And then we pulled out of the bucket, we pulled Mr. Fantastic out. Sammy got Russell Crowe, and I got Al Pacino. And the goal of this game is to basically take the actor and put him in that part as that character, and either reframe the character or pitch a movie, or both, or however you would see Mr. Fantastic being portrayed by that character, and whichever one's the most creative or more fun, or or we just think would be better, would be the winner of that, which we might do the same thing as by having you guys decide. So go ahead, Sammy. Why don't you take it away with uh you pull Russell Crowe.

SPEAKER_01 2:03:08

So I'm I'll be very honest, guys. I do not know much of Mr. Crow. Um, I know of him, I know he's a legacy actor, like Al Pacino is, but I have not seen, I actually would say for myself personally, I've seen more Al Pacino movies than Russell Crowe movies. No wow. And I haven't even seen all the good Al Pacino movies. I just know I've seen him a couple more times than Russell Crowe. But um this was tough. This was very tough because it was Mr. Fantastic is a very particular character. There's a couple different sides of Mr. Fantastic, and I know we're just doing the MCU version, not the comic book version, but I mean the MCU version draws inspiration from the comic book version, and we've only seen him in one film so far to take away from what we know of him in that film. So to instead of molding the actor to fit I'm sorry, instead of molding the character to fit the actor, we had to mold the actor to fit the character. So what I did is I I played around with two different scenarios. The nowadays Russell Crowe, like his exact age as of today, or an earlier version of Russell Crowe that I think would fit um the the earlier version of Reed Richards that we've seen so far. So I'm choosing to do to do that one. Mind you, I have not seen these movies, so I had to do a little bit of a YouTube breakdown on some of these movies and just see a couple of things of Russell Crowe's acting for some of these, just to get kind of an idea here. So Russell Crowe in like his early 30s, because that's how old Reed Richards is portrayed to us in first steps. Instead of him leading into the intelligence part of Reed Richards, the smartest man alive, Reed Richards is kind of twofold, the way we've been shown in the intro in the um MCU so far. One, he's very intelligent, and two, he's very adventurous. He wanted to go up in space, he wanted to study these different things, he's all always playing around with different scientific um uh hypothesis and things like that. And he has the luxury of being smart, which aids him in doing this stuff. But I've decided instead of relying on the intellect, I will rely on some of Russell Crowe's strengths of being a leader and being an adventurer. So that will lead more than the intelligence. Um so, like an adventurer scientist. Uh most versions of Reed, like what we see in the MCU, and intellectuals are first, leaders are leadership is second. Russell Crowby the opposite. Okay. He's still the smartest man alive, but he's also the guy who would personally climb into an experimental spacecraft because he trusts the calculations more than anyone else. Think about like if Indiana Jones had a PhD in quantum physics. Right. Like Neil Armstrong uh had a baby with Einstein. Sort of like that thing. Um or Tony Stark's confidence without the ego. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So to we rework him into an MCU backstory is Reed Richards the Explorer. From childhood, Reed wasn't interested in studying the universe. He wanted to see it. Or I'm sorry, he wanted to see it. While other geniuses were content with theories, Reed wanted answers. At MIT, later the Baxter Foundation, Reed quickly became known as a scientific prodigy. The problem? He constantly ignored the boundaries. Government regulations or ethics committees or funding restrictions. None of that stopped him from pursuing what he wanted to do, the adventure part of him, not the intellectual part of him. So he then later meets Sue Storm. Now Sue isn't attracted to him because of his smarts. We've already laid the groundwork that he's not leading with that. She's attracted to his vision, what he wants to see of the future, and what he is constantly adventuring out to do. And so she wants to be his plus one and join him on that adventure. Yuga even argue to say she brings the intelligence first and foremost, allowing him to be a rebellious adventurer, but only using his intelligence when needed in danger. Yeah, Reed sees someone who challenges him rather than worships him, and their relationship becomes an emotional anchor of the whole team when they get formed. In this version of Russell Crowe playing Mr. Fantastic, Reed leads the comic research mission, and nobody else does. He is the leader first and foremost. He's not co-leading this. Sue may be with him, but Sue's there to help keep him at bay, while he is just caring about free ranging and going as far as he can go, touching the stars. This is where I think from what I have seen of clips of Russell Crowe, where his natural um intensity would fit perfectly. Um the mission is when a mission is threatened, Reed doesn't hide behind calculations. He doubles down and makes a tough call, as a leader would. Um and this read would be in tune with what I've seen of some of the Russell Crowe stuff like in Gladiator and things like that. He will have some accountability for some of his actions and not plead it as ignorance or um how we've seen him in the MCU where he didn't calculate it.

SPEAKER_02 2:09:19

Um see.

SPEAKER_01 2:09:23

So some of his strengths that are like Russell Crowe's strengths will be more of a fearless, charismatic, um brilliant strategist and natural leader. And then the scientific part will come in later on. That he just uses as a backup, not as his main focus.

SPEAKER_02 2:09:41

But some of his flaws, similar to the MCU version, is his mindset.

SPEAKER_01 2:09:51

He wouldn't look at a problem and try to solve it, but he would say, I have the responsibility to solve it. How do I explain that into better words? It leads him to take risks others won't. That makes sense. And he ignores the warnings. Um he pushes his friends too far for the adventure, doesn't care about their feelings as much. He assumes that he's right, because he does have that intelligence card behind him. But um his greatest strength and greatest weakness become the same thing. He believes he could fix everything. Even though one would argue he is the smartest man alive, so he can, but his ambition would get the best of him. A young Russell Crowe would work because Russell Cro if you're asking, can Russell Crowe play the smartest man alive? I would say instead of asking that, you should ask, can Russell Cro Crow play the man everyone will be willing to follow into the unknown? And that answer I would say is yes for a Russell Crowe, Mr. Fantastic. He, um young Russell Crowe has the exact qualities the Reed would need to uh convince you through Sue Storm being able to trust him, Ben Grimm flying to the mission, Johnny Storm joining in on the Avenger and being a little rambunctious because he likes Reed, and governments to fund impossible projects because he has this natural charisma about him that you feel optimistic just being around him. You don't feel dumb because he's so intelligent. So if I had to pitch this to the MCU, I would say most importantly, Crow makes the intelligence feel powerful rather than nerdy with his leadership capability. Reed can walk into the room full of scientists and command respect because he understands nobody else things and nobody else. Else does. And the audience will therefore believe he's the smartest man alive by his natural leadership ability more than an equation on a chalkboard. So some of the things I've researched of young Russell Crowe that would lead me to believe this would be probably my pitch to you of what he would be, morphing him into the character, would be a movie called Mystery Alaska in 1999, where he plays a team leader. Um in Gladiator, he plays an inspirational figure. And he seems to have that uh part where he's not a researcher in that, but he's more of a visionary, and people look towards him. Um in 2003, there was a movie called Master and Commander, The Far Side of the World, and in that it kind of gives a more accurate Reed Richards template. Um, because his character, from what I've seen of him, displays adventure, um, willing to take risk, pushing into the unknown, um, replace some of the ships in the Pacific Ocean with space and um like the multiverse and things like that, and I think you would get your version of Reed Richards. Um if someone were to ask me why Russell Crowe is Reed Richards, I would just say because Reed Richards isn't just a scientist, he's an explorer too. And you're gonna need someone who has a proven track record of showing leadership qualities or portraying leadership qualities and then allowing the science to be backed up by everything else around him. So that is my pitch to you for reimagining Mr.

SPEAKER_05 2:13:51

Fantastic. Yeah, I like it. Not to help you out, but I will help you out in a sense. Um he did do a movie called A Beautiful Mind, where he played one of the smartest mathematicians in the world. So he does have that edge to him as well already. And that was when he was like right after Gladiator or something, so it was right around that time. Yeah, that's uh man, you had a good pick there though, because he's Russell Crow guys is one of the best out there.

SPEAKER_01 2:14:17

He is, you know, I will say I am actually I've never watched Gladiator, and now I am interested in watching it based on a couple of the the little scenes I saw on YouTube. Oh, you've never seen Gladiator. Never seen Gladiator. So I've heard about it and I know that was a big deal, but I just never had been interested in such a lot of people.

SPEAKER_05 2:14:33

You know what you're gonna love in Gladiator? Joaquin Phoenix. He plays top three best villains in any movie ever in that movie. Oh, this is what a piece of shit. And so good though. So good. Anyway, sorry. I didn't mean to interrupt you.

SPEAKER_01 2:14:50

No, you're fine. No, so that's that's that's the best that I could do. I don't have like a movie. I know you got like a whole thing. I'm excited.

SPEAKER_05 2:14:58

All I really all I really have is a movie pitch. But okay. I will tell you, Master Commander, though, I'm glad you gave that a shout out. I'll be honest with you. If there are two movie epics that you should see in your lifetime, it's Gladiator and Master Commander. I put Gladiator top 20 best or top, I put Gladiator in the top 10 of best war-esque movie epics, but I put Master and Commander in a top two. That is a sleeper. Anyone out there that hasn't seen Master and Commander, do yourself a favor. It's a masterpiece. It's up is the number like like I give that movie a 10 out of 10. That movie is up there of the of in like the the ranking of some of the best stuff ever made. But Sammy, I would love to watch Gladiator with you. I think you'd enjoy the hell out of that movie. It is a lot of Master Commander, it's a little more slower. It's it's not that you would enjoy a slower movie, but it's you definitely gotta really like it's a niche kind of film, um, but it's a masterpiece. But like Gladiator though is epically good, and it the music is just killer, and the action is killer, it's an easy story to follow. And like I said, you you think Russell looks good in it. Way too seawaking in it. Holy bully, he's just like no wonder he's who he is. Like, I don't I don't understand you watch him and he's like, I can't believe that's him. Because that's one of his earlier roles, and wow, is he just so good in it, so good in it.

SPEAKER_01 2:16:21

Good job, Sam. I'd watch that movie. Well, it was it was hard for me. Like I said, because I don't know too much of Russell Crowe stuff, so I'm I really had to think about Reed Richards and what I know because Fantastic Four has been one of my favorite teams since I've gotten into Marvel ever when I was young. And so I and Reed Richards is not my favorite of the four, too. Um, but I think the reason why is because he acts like a prick a lot of the times in the comic books. But you have to at least give it to him. I'm like, what does he have other than the smartest man alive that everyone hypes him up to be? I'm like, well, these this team does go on adventures. That's why he even wanted to. And it reminded me actually the first Fantastic Four film from Fox in 2005, where he he's going to Victor Von Doom to uh in that film because he wants to see what's beyond the universe and he thinks he can cure diseases with what's out there. And that reminds me of okay, this guy, yeah, he's a genius scientist who could harness all that stuff, but at the same time, he's an explorer at the same time. So I thought, how can I relate that with Russell Crowe? Because I, like I said, I haven't seen too much of Russell Crowe. So I started looking up Russell Crowe films where he's a leader and things like that, and getting synopsis and then seeing little clips here or there just to back it up and make sure, okay, is this legit? And I'm like, all right, I'm gonna pick these three different movies where he shows different versions of what I think Reed could be. And that one in particular was a little more of what I was thinking of, and then I just piled in as much as I could.

SPEAKER_05 2:17:55

Yeah, and that's the beauty of this little competition with this. You don't really need to know. It's not, I don't, I definitely wouldn't want you to feel like you have to know all these actors. It's you you know what they look like, you kind of do a little bit of looking into them and just have fun with it. You know what I mean? Like there's no it it's it that's the neat thing about it.

SPEAKER_01 2:18:11

I just wanted to play to his strengths. Yeah, yeah. And his strengths, uh, from what I do know of him even before this, was that he always is like why he played Zeus. He always plays the leadership type of role. Right. And so it makes sense to me. Reed Richards is a leader of Fantastic Four. Just merge that together somehow. Well, we're lucky in this pick. Both of us got the same kind of pick like that.

SPEAKER_05 2:18:31

Oh, yeah. You know, and he's also played smart people before, big time. And it's so it's like, so it's not a far stretch to see him as Reed, it's it's just getting past Pacino's face.

SPEAKER_01 2:18:44

But like I've got a great, yeah, I've got a great take, so let me give it to you. Yes, please do. I'm curious.

SPEAKER_05 2:18:49

With that said, though, you know, one thing I do want to say though, just for Reed Richards and for a shout out, the more I've watched the Fantastic Four movie from Marvel, the more of a brilliant casting that is of Pedro Pazel. He was the one of all of them that I was not so sure of in the beginning. You too. But when I watched, as I've watched it, I can't wait to get to talk about when we get to talk about, I'll go real deep into it. He does things, nuanced things in that that arguably, man, what a knockout of the park, those him and him and Sue both. There's that relationship is so it's like the might be the best in the MCU. But let's we'll get there. We'll get there. When it comes down to couples and like their dynamic, because I can see if she dies, you'd go evil. There's a storyline there. I can see that she needs her to be, anyways. We'll get there when we get to it. I see it. I think they played it brilliantly to that key to that point. So, okay, Sammy's gonna win this one, guys. Mine is ridiculous. Wait till you hear it though. It's fun, and I got three endings to my story. So I have a safe ending, and I have a you know, a risky ending, and then I have a big old swing ending. And I personally, if I was filming it, I would film the ending that was the big swing. But I'll tell you why it's a good one. So Mr. Albert Pacino. Not what he's saying like that. Yeah, so I definitely have Al Pacino at his age now. Okay. Nice and old and tricky. Okay. All right. Maybe, maybe give it a go about 10 years ago, because I think right now he barely can walk. So let's go, let's go 10 years ago. I still want old Pacino, is what I'm trying to say. Okay. So old Pacino that's not because right now I think he's in real rough shape, but it's just because he's almost 90. I mean, goodness gracious. But I'd like I'd like Pacino about 10 years ago, Pacino. So he's still an old guy, okay? And I'm just gonna kind of set the stage for this already. Um, I am kind of piggybacking off of what's already done in the MCU. So the setting of this story, of this, of this Reed Richards, is now like a 1970s retro feel, because it's gonna take place like 30 years later. So I kind of wanted to go because they they have like that 650s, 60s vibe in the movie. So I thought it'd be cool if they had like the 70s, almost 80s vibe for this. Oh, okay. Yep. But with the same futuristic, you know, past but futuristic stuff, right? So it kind of has that same kind of feel to it. Um, and Mr. Mr. Pacino does real great at playing someone that you're not quite sure if you can trust in. And that's this Reed Richards that I have proposed. Because I'm gonna tell you that I have a storyline here that I'm gonna read to you that I think would make a very interesting movie with Al Pacino playing Reed Richards in the MCU that we have right now. Okay. Other than the fact that Pedro Pascal and him aren't the same. Although I have to tell you, uh, I think Pedro Pascal could come off as Italian, and Al Pacino is very Italian-looking, so you could you could play with it, we could believe it, but let's just go with it for there, okay? So I'm not I'm not saying they should do this in the MCU, but I am I'm only basing this off of what we know of in the MCU, which I think is what makes us fun, okay? So this the story goes 30 years into the future, okay, Franklin Richards, has become a godlike ruler whose powers have reshaped reality itself. The world believes Franklin is a balevolent guardian, but Reed knows the truth, or does he? After witnessing horrors, only he remembers, Reed builds a temporal engine and travels back in time when the Fantastic Four are at their height and peak in the 70s.

SPEAKER_02 2:22:56

His mission is to kill Franklin Richards, his son.

SPEAKER_05 2:23:03

Clearly, the teen quickly realizes the old man may be wrong, even though everything he says and everything that that he presents to them as evidence is very convincing. Young Franklin also being very afraid of him when he sees him, knowing that it's his older father. So Pacino's Mr. Fantastic claims the others all died fighting Franklin in a battle that he merely got away from. They discover slowly, one by one, that that's not the truth, and that they were murdered by probably Reed himself, but he maintains that he didn't do it.

SPEAKER_02 2:23:50

So in a crazy twist and in a last ditch effort, Future Reed organizes a team of some of the Fantastic Four supervillains, and there's an epic battle, and the goal is to get to Franklin.

SPEAKER_05 2:24:09

So you have a handful of villains that the Fantastic Four are used to fighting, fighting alongside old Reed from the Future and the Fantastic Four team that we have to try to keep Franklin safe.

SPEAKER_02 2:24:23

So the ending number one is the safe one. And the safe ending is they defeat futuristic Reed.

SPEAKER_05 2:24:36

He was wrong. Franklin isn't a bad kid, never does go bad, that he was bad, and then you're only left with this question of why did Reed lose his mind in the future? Which kind of ties into his story arcs anyways, because there are things in the future for him where he does go bad. Now, the more risky ending would be the Fantastic Four win, but the last second you realize that future Future Reed was right, and now Franklin's gonna pose as a opponent in the future, and you just don't know when it's gonna happen.

SPEAKER_02 2:25:11

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 2:25:13

The big swing ending is while the Fantastic Four are fighting off the supervillains, Future Reed and Present Reed are fighting, and Franklin gets in the middle of it and kills Future Reed.

SPEAKER_02 2:25:31

And Present Reed sees him do it and realizes that Future Reed was right. And present Reed makes a decision and tries to take out Franklin in that moment, but Franklin overpowers him and wounds him, and in the midst of the battle forces him into the temporal machine and sends him to another to a different time that's unknown. But he's wounded, and his wounding is also disfigured his face, and he's now in the past, before Franklin was born, and no one's ever gonna believe that he's actually Reed and he becomes Doctor Doom later on, and the one that he really is after is his own future son that sent him there.

SPEAKER_05 2:26:23

I think Pacino could play this part real well, as this old guy that's desperate, that kind of be cool to see like what it would look like with him trying to do the stretchy stuff as he's gotten older. I think the last ending would be wild and would make people flip lid because they don't want that to be done to their Doctor Doom. That's why I thought Sammy was gonna throw something at me because I'm changing Dr. Doom's origin story. But I also think it would be very interesting, wouldn't it be a wild concept that Doctor Doom in he always had a thing about Reed and was always against Reed. But wouldn't it be interesting if Reed knows he's never gonna be able to convince them of who he is, and maybe he has to make a suit in order to keep himself alive because of the wounds he got from his son, but he knows he's got to come for his son because eventually his son is gonna become that malevolent being that's gonna do these awful things, and he ultimately becomes their own supervillain in a way, like he creates their son, creates their own supervillain, I think would be unique and interesting and make a weird time loop. Um, I don't think it should ever be made, folks. But that is my pitch for this version of Reed. I mean, you're gonna keep the smarts. I don't think any of that changes. I I don't think you need to cater it to Pacino, because I think the future Reed that you're gonna see is a very desperate, very scared, and but very untrusting, too. But I would definitely, no matter what ending you pick, I would want it to end with him believing for sure that he's right. Therefore, you can leave the door open to it meaning anything later. Whether it's obviously Franklin doesn't become a bad guy, so he's wrong, and Reed loses his mind somehow and wonder how that's gonna happen. Or Franklin could eventually become a bad guy, and he does, and we're just waiting for it to happen now because of Fantastic 401. Or make Reed become their own supervillain, which would be really unique in its own sense, if you think about it. Now that would change some things, that would almost be like polling Iron Man 3. But I think it's creative, I think it could be fun, I think it could be believable, and I think it'd be a risk.

SPEAKER_02 2:28:42

That's what I got.

SPEAKER_01 2:28:46

I'd be interested to know, regardless of who wins in this battle, what the popular view of your ending would be. On which one of those? On which one would if like because we're asking our audience, you guys are listening and watching us right now, to go in the comment section on our YouTube page on this trivia takedown segment and not only rate the first uh game that we played tonight, but also the second one where we're pitching uh which of these two actors would be um their version of Mr. Fantastic. Not only say whether I win or my brother Ike wins, but for his take, which of the three endings would you think would have been a bigger a big swing and a miss or a hit, or which one would you have seen on screen if you get the pick? If I was a studio, I'd film all three and then test them. Yeah, yeah. And so you guys are gonna be our test audience right now, and just hearing it, what would you have said if someone pitched it to you? Which of the three would you have liked? Because I want to know.

SPEAKER_05 2:29:56

Wow, which one do you like out of the three? Just your own person. Because I I know you're you're a big doom guy, and I understand that you don't want to mess with his origin, but I do have to say, if someone was going to, I wrote that thinking to myself, if someone's gonna mess with his origin, if we're gonna change it, say for some weird reason we're not able to use the one we got.

SPEAKER_02 2:30:21

I kind of like this one.

SPEAKER_05 2:30:23

Like I like this idea of it's it being him being created like this, and it then that would make that feel like so. Now we know why Dune is also real smart. We know why he also becomes a big adversary to them, and now we can see why there's this he hates them, and it's gonna be because of it's it's in instead of like it's usually the other way around, right? The son after the father. I think it'd be unique if it was a father after the son, you know. I think that that would be unique. I think that would have a unique twist. If we couldn't use like the normal Doom thing, yeah, yep. You know what I'm saying? Like, I think that this would personally, I think that that would be the best way to go. Because then you're not getting rid of Doom, you're just changing to who he is, who he's from.

SPEAKER_01 2:31:10

The only part that I would have struggled with of your big swing moving forward is the it would it appears to me that the only rivalry between Doom and the Fantastic Four when he goes back in time, is he wants to make sure that their son dies. But there's no rivalry between him and Reed himself. It just changes. Or him and Sue, or him and Ben, where that's the one consistent thing is not only does Doom not like Reed and that always is there's no that's the thing. That's the only difference I would say, because it's even if you did this pitch and it it was a swing and maybe it was a hit for everyone, moving forward, it's harder for me to justify getting circumventing that stream back to a more comic accurate version of him, just a different take of him, when you're not seeing Reed versus Doom anymore. You're really just seeing Doom waiting until Franklin's being born and then he's gonna do his thing.

SPEAKER_05 2:32:16

Well, but at the same time, I the only argument I'd have to that is it would be the team versus him all the time, because he's gonna know they're never gonna let him because they never let him. Like he knows his fate is tied to the fate of the old man they just killed.

SPEAKER_01 2:32:34

You would have to in this film Does that make sense? Yeah, to justify that third ending, you'd have to, somewhere along the lines of this film, of course, be remorseful that his team has died at the hands of Franklin. But also part of what you have said um that makes you throughout the whole film questioning if this was real or not, if it was actually Reed who killed his teammates or not, have that really play up into it because that will instill a relationship, or not really a relationship, but it will set a foundation of Doom's rivalry with the other team members at the same time.

SPEAKER_05 2:33:07

So if I so if if so in clarity, if if both things are true, let's say both are true, which means he did kill them. The future Reed did kill his team, but he had to kill them because he had to, they wouldn't let him kill Franklin. Yep. That would be that would make that be like that would make the past Reed realize the only way to destroy Franklin is also to destroy them.

SPEAKER_01 2:33:34

Yeah, prevent Franklin from even being born. Right. That was set the rivalry up before shooting. So then there's a fight that starts there. Then when she does get pregnant, go on, the fight continues on. Because that would make more sense to me for Doom being their arch at Nemesis. I think that's kind of what I've got in mind targeting them as a team. Right. Even if he takes out Reed, he can't take out Reed without Ben the thing being there to always be. Kind of like Reed's bodyguard and best friend, and then his wife, Sue. And you can't take out Sue because there's Johnny that's always going to be there to defend his sister.

SPEAKER_05 2:34:09

I think I think that's definitely ultimately how I wanted him to feel at the end was that whole, oh, I'm gonna have to kill him, and that meets the whole team. Because they're never gonna let me do it. Because they're not gonna believe on me, anyways, because he scarred him to the point where he has to wear a mask.

SPEAKER_01 2:34:24

That's where I can see where you can be able to it it could work. And you can muddy the waters of who he takes on a new name, Victor Van Doom, and all that stuff. And he is super smart, the world's smartest man, so he takes over our country. Very easy to do, especially a little unknown country, kind of like Wakanda. Latvaria is not really that well known. Right. And then Doom makes it into something. His own little sanctuary that gives him that political protection when he goes over to do crazy stuff. Right, right. Yep. I can see if you orchestrated that right, that the third one be a hit, but it's a swing. It's a swing. And the problem is it won't look like a hit in the beginning until the next film when you can complement the first film. That's the thing. That's what a lot of these movies, and what Marvel in particular has been able to do well. Any of their misses, they have the luxury of being interconnected in the powerhouse that even a decade later they could do a movie to reference back to it and make it make it better. That would be the only struggle you would have with that if if that was an issue.

SPEAKER_05 2:35:30

As for the game's sake, though, that's my Pacino as Doom would be the future Pacino, older, an older Reed, or Pacino is Reed, I mean. Yeah. Would be my Yeah, that'd be he'd be an older Reed that's back in time.

SPEAKER_01 2:35:42

I like that because my second theory for my Russell Crowe one was what if it was a modern day Russell Crowe and he was a little older? And I would have made him a little bit more vengeful because he's older and been through some stuff. His wife is in in my version, his wife has been dead. Yeah. And all that, and he is left to be by himself. Yeah, that's good. I like that too. I'm glad that I didn't pick that and I did the younger version. Because it's so opposite, huh? Because it's opposite. It's really, really cool. So, anyways, guys, the question's for you. Which of your versions of these two versions did you like? Please comment on which ending of Ike's you think would have been the best and let us know who won this battle. That was a lot of fun. That was really fun. Yeah, I enjoy these a lot. These are a good time. So, just to uh get you guys prepared for next week, we are gonna do a uh trivia takedown, but it's not gonna be as in-depth as these ones are and more of a thinking type one. We're gonna do kind of like a hot takes, um, where we have either some hot takes are flowing around on the internet or we come up with some ourselves and we have to say whether we agree or disagree and then explain why.

SPEAKER_05 2:36:45

I think it'd be fun if you and I come up with what do you say? Let's just do uh let's use the internet and using uh our brains. Let's come up with like 10 or 15 each, and then we'll put them together and we'll uh take out any any of them that are the same and we'll put them in a bucket and we'll just take turns pulling out of it and pull the do an agree or disagree. And then if we we'll just discuss it for a couple of minutes. Yep. But I would like to use hot takes that we've heard online from others and some of our own too.

SPEAKER_01 2:37:16

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, and I would think if we are if we are doing two games, one of the other games I've always wanted to do with you is we pick um maybe we can narrow it down so we can have a little bit more fun with this type thing, so we won't do actually we could do um characters. And I was thinking about films, but we could do where you have ten, the top ten, but you don't know what they are until I give you one. Oh, okay. Yeah, they're gonna be fine. And then you put, okay, this is my number seven. And then I give you another name, and you're like, oh, that's that's more of a two. Oh, that's a ten. And then just to see where it would have been just I don't know what that game is specifically called. Yeah, but I've seen that played on other guys' things. That would be a fun one. Yeah. So we'll talk about it this week and figure out. That'll be something I would like to do sometime. So, anyways, guys, please comment down below who won both of these um both of these games we played. And now we're gonna be moving on to our retrospective review, the main topic at hand, the main thing we do this for. Our retrospective review of Captain America Civil War starts now.

SPEAKER_05 2:38:29

Hello, everybody. Welcome to our main event, our retrospective of Captain America Civil War. Man, I've been looking forward to this all week. So, Sammy, we're gonna do what we normally do, guys, do a brief history, go act by act, and then have our breakdowns. Well, you go ahead, Sammy, and give us a brief history on Captain America's Civil War.

SPEAKER_01 2:38:48

All right, guys, history behind the film of Captain America's Civil War. It was released on May 6, 2016. And these are just some of the cast members, guys. Chris Evans, Robert Downey Jr., Don Cheadle, Sebastian Stan, Scarlett Johansson, Elizabeth Olsen, Anthony Mackey, Jeremy Renner, Paul Bentney, Paul Rudd, Emily Van Camp, William Hurt, and introducing Daniel Brummel, Chadwick Bozeman, and Tom Holland. Just some of the casts. Woo! Alright, guys. So the development and production of Captain America's Civil War marked one of the most pivotal moments in both the history of the MCU and Marvel Studios itself. Following the success of Captain America The Winter Soldier and Avengers Age of Ultron, Marvel wanted to adapt its huger, popular 2006-2007 comic event Civil War. Written by Mark Miller and illustrated by Steven McNiven, but the studio faced a major challenge. The original comic centered around the Superhuman Registration Act and featured dozens of heroes that Marvel Studios either hadn't introduced yet or no longer had the film rights to, such as the X-Men in Fantastic Four. Instead, Marvel reworked the story to fit the existing MCU continuity by making the ideological conflict a direct consequence of the destruction seen in Avengers, Winter Soldier, and Age of Ultron. The Sokovia disaster became the catalyst for the Sokovia Accords, naturally dividing Chris Evans' Steven Rogers and Robert Downey Jr.'s Tony Stark over questions of accountability and freedom. Although marketed as a third Captain America film, the project essentially functioned as Avengers 2.5, bringing together nearly every major MCU hero while also introducing major new players. Behind the scenes, the movie was produced during what many fans and insiders have since referred to as Marvel Studios' own internal civil war. During development, long-standing tensions between Marvel Studios president Kevin Feige and Marvel Entertainment CEO Ike Pearlmutter reportedly reached a breaking point over budgeting, creative control, and decision making. Pearlmutter was known for a highly cost conscious management style and maintained oversight of Marvel Studios through the Marvel Entertainment structure. In 2015, during pre-production of Civil War, Disney CEO Bob Iger reorganized Marvel Studios, allowing Feige to report directly to Disney's film leadership rather than Pearl Mother. This management change is widely viewed as one of the most important events in MCU history, giving Marvel Studios significantly greater creative freedom and helping reshape the ambitious storytelling that followed the studio. Um, in Black Panther, Thor Ragnarok, Infinity War, and Endgame. At the same time, directors Anthony Russo and Joe Russo returned after the success of Winter Soldier and embraced the challenge of balancing a massive ensemble while keeping the story emotionally centered on Steve Rogers. Filming began in 2015 across Atlanta, Georgia, Germany, Puerto Rico, Iceland, and several other international locations. By this point, the MCU had become Hollywood's dominant franchise, and nearly every cast member had seen their careers transformed by Marvel. Chris Evans had fully been synonymous with Captain America. Robert Dyne Jr. remained the face of the franchise and one of the highest paid actors in the world. Scarlett Johansson, Jeremy Renner, Don Cheeto, Elizabeth Olson, and Paul Betney all returned with expanded roles, while the film also introduced two hugely important characters, Chadwick Bozeman as Black Panther and Tom Holland as Spider-Man. Holland, only 19 years old at the time, was a relatively unknown actor whose energetic audition reportedly impressed both Marvel and Sony, while Bozeman brought tremendous gravitas to T'Challa. One of the film's biggest behind-the-scenes achievements was negotiating the groundbreaking deal between Marvel Studios and Sony Pictures Entertainment to allow Spider-Man to finally join the MCU after years of separate continuity. The famous Airport Battle sequence became one of the largest and most complex action scenes Marvel has ever attempted, acquiring months of um requiring months of planning and extensive visual effects work while still prioritizing character interactions over Spectacle. When Captain America Civil War premiered in 2016, it was immediately hailed as one of the MCU's finest achievements, with critics praising his massive themes, mature themes, emotional weight, action choreography, and ability to successfully juggle a huge ensemble cast. The film earned approximately 90% on Rotten Tomatoes from critics and 89% from audiences, cementing its reputation in one of Marvel's strongest entries. Financially, it was a massive success, grossing roughly $1.155 billion worldwide against a production budget estimated at $250 million. More than simply another blockbuster, Civil War fundamentally changed the MCU by shattering the Avengers, introducing Black Panther and Spider-Man, and setting the stage for the events of Avengers Infinity War. In many ways, both on screen and behind the scenes, the film represented a true turning point for Marvel Studios, reflecting the creative and organizational evolution that would define the franchise's next era. Man, that's intense. In other words, guys, pardon my French, a lot of shit went down.

SPEAKER_04 2:44:36

Yeah, shit went down.

SPEAKER_01 2:44:37

Alright, Ike, what's the official synopsis?

SPEAKER_05 2:44:40

So the official synopsis, guys, is political involvement in the Avengers affairs causes a rift between Captain America and Iron Man. Very simple.

SPEAKER_01 2:44:50

Very simple, but yet, oh my gosh, so consequential. This is so this is so cool. So, guys, we're just gonna dive right into this fella because he's a big one. Alright, uh I'll read Act One then. Okay. Alright, so uh Act One, the Accords and Division. After a series of global incidents involving the Avengers, world governments introduced the Sokovia Accords, which would place the team under United Nations control. The Avengers split into opposing ideologies. Tony Stark supports oversight after feeling responsible for past destruction. Steve Rogers opposes control, believing the Avengers should operate freely to do what's right. Tensions escalate when a bombing at the UN conference kills King Tataka, and evidence frames Bucky Barnes as the attacker. Steve refuses to believe Bucky is responsible and goes rogue to protect him, breaking from the Avengers. This causes a full ideological split between the team. So, first off, I'm gonna say, guys, before we get into this act one, I know we just rushed to getting into it because there's so much to talk about, but a little bit on that history of the film that I wanted to mention is this was very ambitious for Kevin Feige and the Russo brothers to tackle this big comic book. And I love the I love that at the same time they were doing their own civil war, and thankfully the the people that emerged victorious of that gave us some of the best MCU we've ever had. So it worked out in in Marvel Studios' favor. But just like what we're about to discuss between Captain America and Iron Man, this uh in in this movie version, I am gonna constantly in my brain compare it to the comic book, and I have to say, hands down, that um what they're will achieve here so far, and we're gonna break down each scene as we get to it, of course. Is impressive what the Rooster Brothers have been able to put together into a one one film with what they had. So, anyways, I personally have never read the comic of this.

SPEAKER_05 2:47:01

And what I have right here sometimes, to be honest with you.

SPEAKER_01 2:47:04

Yeah, this is this is really cool. I actually, this is dad's. Okay. He had this first, and this only has issues one through seven. Okay, how many issues are there? Many. It's a big story, right? Civil War, it was they called it a company-wide event. So because it didn't just affect Avengers, it affected everybody. This Civil War in the comics took place right after the Mutant Registration Act and how that failed. So they so politics being politics, decided the superhuman registration act. Yeah, so instead of just targeting mutants, they therefore targeted the whole superhero community. And just like what we're gonna see in this film, it was Captain America and his team versus Iron Man and the government's team. Okay, and yeah, it got a lot much more complex, of course, in the comics. And of course, the comics had everybody, and this is actually where the Fantastic Four even split up because Sue went on Cap's side and Reed went on Iron Man's side. I think I don't remember where Johnny went. I think Ben went to Paris. He was like, I'm I'm done with this whole thing. And Sue and Reed got divorced because of what happened in this. That's how it's and I will always remember this. She got div, they got divorced with her leaving a note on their nightstand saying, I have to leave you because we are too different.

SPEAKER_03 2:48:25

Damn.

SPEAKER_01 2:48:25

One of the things now, guys, when we get into this, we're not a political podcast, so we're not gonna talk politics, but the Civil War comic and this movie to a degree does touch upon those political differences that they have. Not so black and white, like left wing versus right wing, or whatever you want to call it. The comics actually goes a little more in detail of left wing versus right wing, but we're not talking about politics, guys. We're talking about the story as it is. Yeah. But they they they were very big in the comics of political ideologies really back and were enforcing their decision making. I think we're gonna read them sometime. Yeah. Yeah, because this is like like I said, this is like it says here, this collects issue one through seven. There's many issues, and plus every character in Marvel Comics was affected by this, where even some of their solo stuff, it it had a special label on it that says during the Civil War era.

SPEAKER_05 2:49:25

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_01 2:49:26

So everybody, Daredevil, you name it, they had something happening to them during this time. Yeah, yeah. So it became one of their biggest stories to tell. Um I would even go so far to argue, for me personally, at least, this is bigger than the Infinity War comic line. Okay. Because this was such a divide amongst the heroes themselves. So, anyways, yeah, this is oh boy. Yes. All right, so what we just talked about in act one. Ike, what what do you think?

SPEAKER_05 2:50:01

So I'm gonna start right out then, okay? Yes. Let's uh I love this opening. Um, I love the opening of seeing uh Bucky taking out this car, and of course it's kind of a mystery. We know we know what happens later. But I do like that I do like that in the three Captain America movies, one of the key elements that they kind of focus in on is the super soldier idea. And I know in Winter Soldier it's not so much a super soldier idea, but it is because Bucky's the bad guy in that, right? And he's the one that's being controlled. So it's this whole idea of the super soldier thing ultimately is always in cap storyline, the super soldier serum, you know. Oh yeah, I like that it starts right out with like showing something from the past because you know later it's gonna come back and it does in a great way. Um, and I I'm actually really impressed this whole opening scene of them with this fight they have with Crossbones. I think Crossbones is the way they did it by using him as a low-tier villain that ultimately was gonna sacrifice himself just to take out Cab because he hates him that much. I thought he was a perfect one to put in here for this moment to get this movie started so we get this idea of what's going on. And then using you know, Frank Grillo from being all tore up from Winter Soldier, I think was genius on their part to do so. This guy's a total terrorist in this, and it works out well. It's just the the last remnants of of Hydra that Steve's still hunting down, you know. And I just love that. I think that works well. I think the whole team worked well in this, the things were funny. Uh Wanda's powers were shown real well awesome in this. Uh, I mean, Crossbones kind of put up a good fight with Cap, but ultimately Cap was just had him, you know. And but I liked that he went to you know, he went to sh to blow himself up to take Cap out. The whole scenario was interesting, and I enjoyed that a lot, you know. Um, I'm really, really impressed with that. Uh what do you think of that so far? Because I'll stop there for now. Oh, yeah, because there's a lot of there's a lot in this.

SPEAKER_01 2:52:07

Yeah, let's go back and forth with that. So this a lot happens in this. It's oh gosh. Um, yeah, I like the I like the nuance, the mystery of Bucky doing his winter soldier stuff in the beginning because you have no idea really what that means. But and later on, when it references back to it and you get the full picture, holy smokes. Yeah, holy moly. Like that's a great way, brilliant way that the Russo brothers are able to do that. Um, honestly. Um lose yet. Not yet. Jeez, guy. Uh I the whole uh is a logos, Largos, yes, the place? Yes. That I that's the same thing that I said in Age of Ultron, as I love the Avengers that's avenging, just being Avengers, just doing their team stuff. You didn't have to have the full team, and actually I'm kind of glad they didn't overcrowd it with the full team. Like they didn't have Hawkeye, they didn't have the Hulk and Thor and all that. And honestly speaking, I know that that's gonna be one of the big elephants in the room is where's Bruce and where is Thor. You don't need them for this type of movie. Because in all reality, they're both too powerful for something like this. This movie needed to stay ideological as the the main battle, and you didn't need the bigger set pieces for those two characters. It did it did a better service, especially when we see later on with Ragnarok where they've been this whole time, um, to not have them here. I agree. Um, people would have died if they were there. Yeah, yeah. They they they make this a point in this movie that the whole reason why they're doing these is from the destruction, like Largos is just the latest example of the never-ending things the Avengers have just been a part of. Yeah. And so, yeah, adding the Hulk to that, oh my gosh, it wouldn't be just that that floor or two floors that were blown up, the whole building would have been gone.

SPEAKER_05 2:54:08

And let's be honest, between you and I right now, we'll just can't we'll just squash this Hulk and Zorfang. I'm completely fine with them not being there, but a lot of it is two because both of them would have been on cap side.

SPEAKER_01 2:54:19

Yes. And I think they even referenced that in the movie. Yeah. Yeah, they do. They they do for Banner in particular.

SPEAKER_05 2:54:26

They said he wouldn't he wouldn't be for the government. And Ross even says if I'm misplaced a couple two megaton nuclear bombs, you know. I just like that they refresh, you know. So it's smart that Hulk's gone and it's smart that Thor's out doing Thor stuff. Yeah. Which makes sense why they're gone. There's no you can't just get a hold of them. So explained away. Yeah. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 2:54:45

It's over. That that's if anything, that was a that was a beauty that how they left in Age of Ultron. They just you don't you didn't need to see them again. This took place immediately after. Yeah. Avengers are still doing their thing. Yeah. So like you just said, how you laid it out perfectly for crossbones, perfect little side villain to start off with, to show the Avengers are still avenging. It still picks up right where Winter Soldier left off for Captain America, because at the end of the day, this is Captain America Civil War, not Avengers Civil War. That's right. So, and I love that that was their decision from the very beginning of doing this movie. Is this Cap's third movie, and it's still gonna align with him because just like in the comic book, the comic book, you're a little bit more of you're seeing both sides and fully how they play out, and you do see how they fully play out, but in this film, they focus that this is still a see Steve centric film. And I love that they automatically just pick the side for us to watch and to be rooting for. Yep. It didn't have to get into amongst the fandom of p of a political ideological divide because you're at the end of the day, everyone. Was four cap and oh yeah for sure. Yeah yeah I love that I I love that that part of it um so yeah this was really cool this uh that whole opening act the the action sequences and I want to say I think that for this whole film this is Black Widow's best is in this opening sequence for me for fighting wise that she yeah it's up there it's up there I agree well I mean for this film in particular for this film yeah yes she does good in the rest don't get me wrong this beginning part though is like it's awesome yeah yeah everyone is at their peak yeah for their fighting and the the jokes are coming off really well Wanda is extremely useful you could tell they're just tapping into her potential here and they use her just enough where you get a glimpse of all this stuff and she helps compliments the other people like Steve when he says remember what we practice and then she just throws them up in the air be like oh that's so cool and then her getting all the gas out really cool like she's only used three times here and that that third one was a surprise one because Steve would have been gone yeah if she wasn't there. Oh it's yeah he'd have been dead so it was just so orchestra and I love their relationship in this film and I know we're gonna get to that and at some point Steve really looks out for Wanda and views her as the kid he does he feels bad for her yeah because she she's scared of her own powers at this point still yeah and and like he I think that this team's very efficient.

SPEAKER_05 2:57:33

Mm-hmm it's actually kind of sad that they're they're lucky that there wasn't more casualties. That actually was pretty I'd say this was a success. I don't know what they're talking anyways.

SPEAKER_01 2:57:48

What am I talking about comparing to all that happened here?

SPEAKER_05 2:57:51

It's like it's if you're going to measure what you're supposed to do, that explosion happening that she didn't set off you know she was just trying to fend away and and any of those people that died in that building from it is probably a better trade-off than whatever the hell they were going to do with that bioweapon. So what are we talking about here you know Mr. Ross you're gonna need to tell us exactly what you'd have done against these people you know what I mean that wasn't gonna have other other like you know casualties of war here. Like what are we talking about right like this Circovia cords is just stupid but we'll get to that when we start talking about them more I I like the introduction to Barf in this oh this this new thing yes I only want to bring this up though because when he was like walking around I I couldn't help but look for Quinn back in the background. I guess me too he's not there but knowing that this is the scene it's like man how genius that still is to me and like so I couldn't we didn't see him obviously but it's too bad it's I just was like where is he where is he yeah but it's just you know that it's there so it's so true. Yeah me too me too and this girl this woman he meets in the hallway she's just I mean I understand her pain. I get it you know it yes she lost son and it's awful what happened and and and technically Ultron is kind of Tony's fault which is what is the motivation of Tony in this you know he feels a lot of guilt because then he's already got trouble with guilt let alone let's pile it on and have someone come in and show me pictures of all you know you start individually showing what these people look like then your guilt meter is going to fly out the roof you know but she's not right here. I disagree with her he did not murder her son you know it's not what she's not she's grieving and she's grieving in a bad way and he's gonna take it and it's gonna be fuel for him and it hits him personal and it's too bad because her way of thinking about what this is isn't is just not correct. You know Ultron needed to be stopped he was going to do that. So it's like so it's either the entire world gets destroyed and everybody dies or you risk casualties of war and your son happened to be one of them. As much as we wish it didn't turn out that way it's kind of what happens you know I'm definitely picking your son over the world if it was up to me. And that's not even how it was placed to them. It's not like they knew we gotta let that boy die or everybody else is gonna die. They didn't even know that. And I'm saying that I would let your boy die knowing it if it come down to the rest of the world. Sorry I mean that sounds awful to people out there but we gotta be honest like what are we talking about here?

SPEAKER_01 3:00:49

Well and even to Tony's defense he literally was putting people in their tub and moving them out of the building that was collapsing as best they could like they were saving they that's why the whole helicors came up and were putting people on there you know they were saving as many people as they could and making the best out of that circumstances for Sokovia in particular but all of these things whether the Avengers were going to be there for um Loki and the aliens coming or not the aliens were going to come. Yeah it just so happened you had a team that was somewhat getting assembled to at least be formidable enough to stop them. Like which brings up the point like what else are you gonna do?

SPEAKER_05 3:01:30

Like what are you talking about? Yeah yeah the Hulk smashed a couple buildings while he's also ripping apart aliens yeah then your answer was to nuke a city full of people oh oh yeah we're not gonna talk about that though exactly we're about to kill everybody just to get rid of the aliens yes yeah but now you want to put these guys on a list yeah okay you know what I mean there's something I don't get the logic is just is simple to me you're no you're you're exactly you know like I mean that and Cap's right it's like what happens if they call us to do something that we don't agree with or they don't call us for something that we should be there for. Yep. He's 100% right 100% right.

SPEAKER_01 3:02:11

He his whole stick was we should have the freedom to choose where we're gonna go and how we're gonna be used and to make our own decisions when it comes to they because they could just turn into glorified shield agents and now do the world's bidding for the UN's bidding for them. No that's not how this is supposed to be and this is coming from a guy who saved the world more than once he died 70 years in the ISO over the same idea they use his what happened in Winter Soldier in Washington DC as one of those sticking points to be like this is another reason why we're coming in do you realize what those three helicors were about to do literally had targets on almost everybody in the world because they potentially could become an adversary to Hydra. Like and where did those things fall? They fell in the water right there. Okay you got splashed in the face that's not justification to put Captain America on a registration it's just yeah I agree with you and I think that's the point that they definitely were trying to make is that there is a lot of illogical but this is the only way the humans can feel like they have power because they at the end of the day they're very scared they don't have the power. And so and I'm doing everything I can in my body to not draw it to current or uh real world political tensions but you see what that's like throughout all of history when you're trying to fix a solution often you could come across as hurting something that actually is helping you. Right. Right. And that's that's literally what they're doing this whole time is that if they put all the Avengers in check and made them do that, how how how do we know that the next disaster is going to come? The Thanos are they going to sanction that right are you allowed to go and fight a big purple guy that's coming what's going to take that to happen right yeah yeah no you're 100% right.

SPEAKER_05 3:04:11

Yeah and that's so so we we're all in agreement yes yeah if you think the government should have oversight of the Avengers then you're just you're just dumb. But like I'm sorry I don't want to say I mean you might think that but the truth is is yeah it's just not it's not the right answer.

SPEAKER_01 3:04:25

No and well what's great about this movie is they make that clear to you as the audience whether you agree with the the Sokovia chords or not that everyone should understand and agree you should have the freedom to choose what you want to do.

SPEAKER_05 3:04:41

Well it's smart having Steve break away learning that Peggy's died. Yeah because we now we still keep this just Captain America's movie. Yeah any personal moments anything that's quiet like this is going to be with Steve you know and then and then I think that that's smart and I like that that that has played out that way and I I also love I think this we're gonna we're still in this part right here if I'm not mistaken yeah this whole everyone getting together and introducing Black Panther this way oh my gosh what brilliance of just just introducing T'Challa because technically the next part is where we have where we actually meet Black Panther himself like him as Black Panther but like yeah and then having this explosion happen this is something else man like this this gets crazy. Like it in you know it it just escalates this whole thing and it makes you realize that this is going to get out of control in a hurry. Yeah I mean by having them in involved and killing T'Challa's father like that right off the bat but they just quickly I mean we don't even know to Charla is worth a crap yet and they gave us probably one of his biggest emotional moments in his life right off the bat. Yeah it actually worked real well like it worked real well what a risk though really yes it is yes what a risk it actually worked and Bozeman so good as ah I forgot how much I liked him as his character.

SPEAKER_01 3:06:08

Yeah I I trying to make sure I have my notes exactly right what this is about um in this act because like I said like we said there's a lot in here. It's well it's just hard like yeah I mean I'm trying to get the highlights right like and they you it you get introduced to this mysterious guy you don't even know his name is Zemo yet and what he's doing orchestrating things and you find out in act two onward what what his stick is what he's actually doing. And he's terrifying when he's finding yeah it's he he is he is so complex of a character of you think oh he finds a Hydra guy so and he drowns him basically to get answers out of him. You're thinking oh Hydra's bad so this guy must be good this guy's not good it's it's how the Russo brothers and I'll get to that when we get to our character deep dives for him in particular how they were able to rework a classic Captain America villain to fit this storyline was so brilliant and how they did him.

SPEAKER_05 3:07:23

Yeah I've got a lot to say about him but I want to save it for later. Okay. But you're right because there's a couple things I really want to point out that I'm super impressed about when it comes down to this guy. Yeah so first of all the actor's phenomenal yes and he's good in anything he does I've seen him do a lot of stuff but in this he's just got there's a specific scene that's on my end list twice actually the same scene.

SPEAKER_01 3:07:48

So yeah let's well the to to touch on another thing that you already mentioned then Peggy Carter's funeral. Yeah. Wow this is guys this is pulled straight out the comics I will tell you from the Civil War comics. Music? Wow it's good the word the exact wording the Sharon Carter says about planting yourself like a tree and telling them no you move is verbatim. That's not something the Roosser brothers came up with that is exact dialogue in the comics. That's impressive yeah and it just it gives me goosebumps to think that they were able to take that part of it and integrate it and so beautifully well done in this film. And like you said keeping it still Steve centric. The emotion he has on his face when he's carrying her casket and you see when he's sitting on the stairs that you just got the text that she passed away. It's just it's so it's a short scene but it's so moving. It's it's so good. I I thoroughly enjoyed that whole scene of sent how they sent her off and um how Steve is still fighting you can see he's if she was still alive today she's fighting an uphill battle or he she would see him and have sympathy for him fighting an uphill battle he's about to go through. Oh my gosh. Yeah yeah um yeah so there's that and then yeah what you said about um T'Challa introducing him Chadwood Bozeman oh my gosh what a charming guy he is he's a good looking fellow he is and he just commands yes attention he steals the scene yeah when when you just see him turn around from where he's looking and you're like oh my gosh like he could have just been anybody but you immediately know without even them saying his name or anything oh this is a main guy this is he's main character energy right there was some what people would say like he's and the the way they developed the Wakanda accent between him and his dad wow yeah it's nice it's good this is yeah tell you what the Russo brothers they had they had fun with this because they got to introduce him and then later on another character they got to be the part of the origin of them to the MCU before they got these characters got of course expand upon their own films and that it's just so cool that they were able to have two new toys in their sandbox.

SPEAKER_05 3:10:16

It's funny as I'm watching him in this and not not to take away from the actor because I'm I'm trying obviously guys he's fantastic to say that he's gone yeah um but I did say I did kind of my mind picture my pick for Black Panther and how it would look and I think Damson I just could pull the same off. Because he's a he's a tall bigger guy good looking and like he just I think he also has that charmingness about him that would work that would almost feel it'll almost feel seamless. Like just complimentary to chapter yeah it would be without being him you know and but still having that same feel of you know when he comes in a room you know I'm saying like yeah yeah so what didn't work for you because I'll tell you what doesn't work for me. Go right ahead then honestly it's nothing real specific but I probably could have used maybe 10 more minutes of them debating the Sokovian chords. Yeah just because it was fun listening to them talk about it. And I think a couple points could have been made to really send it home more that's it. That's all that's wrong with it. Yeah that's not anything wrong. Let's just throw a little more in it's just I want more. Yeah I want more really yeah so it's not really wrong as it is that for 20 more minutes.

SPEAKER_01 3:11:26

I completely agree with you then yeah because that there's so much to happen in here that's actually what I put for my standout moment is the whole introducing the Sokovia chords and them debating. I wish there was I wish it was longer like like you said but for what we got my standout moment believe it or not is introducing Black Panther I just it worked that well for me.

SPEAKER_05 3:11:48

Yeah just seeing them just them talking in their dialogue and and I like his talk with Natasha right away. I'm like okay this is awesome. Yeah yeah it's just stood out to me about how much I liked it so much.

SPEAKER_01 3:12:00

Yeah so oh no that's it's yeah I yeah I wrote down here uh introducing Sokovia chords also the intro to the Wakandans that wild yeah I wrote literally that exactly that thing down so gosh um is there any more we want to say by the way No I'm ready to move right into act two I do want to say right before we go in this whole act one we are only 35 minutes into this movie with an hour and 56 minutes left. It's wild guys yeah and this is how amazing it is what is your score for act one out of 10. Me too nailed it so in this is so good.

SPEAKER_05 3:12:44

Alright Ike why don't you read act two all right so act two guys Steve and Sam Wilson attempt to find Bucky before he is captured or killed while Tony assembles a government aligned team including Black Widow, War Machine, VSion, Black Panther and meanwhile it is revealed that the true mastermind is is his name really Helmet? Helmet. I'm sorry dude it's a hell horrible name I am I'm just gonna call you Zemo who manipul that is the worst name someone needs to go back in time and slap his mom's name is Baron that's way better than Helmet who's like look at our baby oh it's Helmet okay uh who manipulates events to destroy the Avengers no wonder he's mad uh to destroy the Avengers from within as revenge for Sokovia. The conflict escalates into multiple battles airport confrontation in Germany ideological breakdowns and the capture of Bucky Steve learns that Bucky was brainwashed by Hydra and is not responsible for the bombings so I want to start off the bat telling you that I think after this explosion this chase scene to get Bucky from when Steve meets him in the apartment to the chase when they get captured might be the best chase scene in the MCU period hands down don't even question it grabbing the motorcycle and jumping on it all the jumping across the buildings I love that they're in the apartment and Sam is counting down how close they're getting and they're just having this conversation like it doesn't matter it doesn't matter and it just is it works so good. I like that he's a no killing and Bucky's like I'm not gonna kill anybody it's like it's just this a realization in Steve's eyes that oh what's going on here? You know what's really happening I love this chase scene I watched it twice love it love it love it love it when they run it looks so wild when they're running real fast I'm like man it almost looks weird like it almost looks bad but it doesn't at the same time and then we see and we get to see Black Panther in all his glory and holy moly is he the coolest dude he is nasty looking he's got all mean I love it I love it.

SPEAKER_01 3:14:58

Suit is awesome the claws when they come out so cool the when I love that he is riding the car the Cap is driving the whole time and Cap can't shake him and I'm like this is so cool. Like this is this is like every comic book lover should be geeking out this whole time.

SPEAKER_05 3:15:17

The action in this is just spectacular man like when he grabs that motorcycle and then jumps on it like that is I'm just like oh phenomenal over how awesome this looks that is so good. Cap turns that truck and just runs out of the truck yes as a flipping like holy like you're just on the edge of your seat the whole time. Oh it's so what a great action sequence. Oh my gosh my god so good wow oh I don't I can't I can't I can't get over that yeah how much I love that scene to be honest with you.

SPEAKER_01 3:15:49

Yeah I wrote on here this movie takes spy espionage thriller style that we saw in Winter's Soldier and amplifies it to a hundred on the Avengers level and event yep right out right out the roof.

SPEAKER_05 3:16:01

It's wow is then everything that follows it is how how do you even the fact that they're captured here they are they're in this thing what brilliance is it that he used them with the bombing was literally just to get them to capture Bucky so he could be in the room with them to read that book to him. Yeah. Holy crap I love it so much man as it's happening I'm just like this is I remember when I saw this first time in the theater and I was my jaw was on the ground. I'm like this is just phenomenal this has always been one of my favorites and I was just like this is phenomenal I love this whole situation that that that leads into him escaping you know and this and how Tony even before we get to that point let's go back just a little bit all right when Tony this is one of my favorite moments between Tony and Steve when they're sitting there and Tony sits down with the pens. Yes he says listen nothing's happened yet that can't be reversed. Yep and they have a great conversation and they can have provisions. Yeah yeah in this moment though is when it gets real personal with them and you know what they did in this one that they didn't do in Winter Soldier was he literally asked about Pepper and Tony finally was like yeah we're on a break and Steve out of who he is and how he feels for Tony that that friendship is actually really there was like well I'm sorry to hear about that and it's so sincere and Tony's just like and I like that Tony doubles down on this whole look you annoy the hell out of me. You took up so much of my childhood from my dad that I just want to punch you in the face but we do need you and and I do like you too and I do need you and I still want to hit you. You know but but Steve really does care about Tony. Mm-hmm. Like when he says he's not with Pepper, which thank you guys it's all you gotta do. Now I already feel the weight of it already. It's all you gotta do. And and Steve just the way he responded to it was just so in character. So Oh my God this character between this thing between them two. Oh Talk about it for a second. I'm freaking out.

SPEAKER_01 3:18:03

I love that he walks in. This is this is what's really meta about this makes me love Cap even more. This guy's been frozen for decades, almost a century, basically. And Tony walks in, he's like, these pens are from FDR signing uh whatever bill it was. I don't know at the top of my head, but it was some sort of bill. Immediately, Steve's response was some would say that brought our government closer to war. What he signed. Be like, oh my gosh. Like that that that geeked me out because I I love hearing the political stuff, and I love that they brought that into here in a creative way, and be like, Tony thought he was bringing in something really cool that Cap would have appreciated. But meanwhile, Cap has his anti-government political hat on, and he's like, some would say that was pretty bad. I don't want to sign it with something like that, you know? Like, holy smokes. Yeah, yes, that's what he says at the end. Yeah, and I love I love that Steve at that moment, he almost, almost was willing to compromise with saying there has to be this, and uh, and Tony is like, oh yeah, there will be. It's when when they he mentions when Tony mentions to Steve, um, because Steve's asking him about who is signed, who hasn't, all that stuff. And he says that we have Wanda unlocked down. And Steve did not have that. He was like, No way. You're why why why? And then he called her, I believe, a weapon of mass destruction. And that's when Steve ripped around and yelled, she's a kid, and was like, Oh my, the tensions. It was that's what I loved about this movie a lot, is and I mentioned it earlier already, that Steve, uh, just because he's he's older, obviously, uh in um continuity-wise and all of them, he's like 90 something, right? But he's he is kind of like the father figure of the Avengers, he's looking out for all their best interests, and he knows that Wanda is this scared kid who doesn't even know yet her full extent, she doesn't even know her full extent, all this stuff, and be like, you can't treat her. And then when you see what they do to her later when they do capture her, and you're like, oh my gosh, they're doing exactly what he feared they were gonna do in tying her up the way she did. Then she she literally didn't do anything wrong, guys. That's the the whole thing, yes, she's extremely powerful, I get it, but like she saved Cap's life and she tried to save everyone else's life, and it just so happened to blow up at the wrong spot, wrong time. But she's not an evil person, no, and they're treating her like she is the gun in the room, like no, just leave her be. But anyways, to the point where Tony has her locked up in the Avengers campus and has sacked Ultron or I'm sorry, Ultron, has sacked vision on her to to keep her in line or keep her there. And I like that you see the little bit of thing that they got they start going on. It is a little creepy just because you know he's a robot, but whatever. It's comic accurate, so I'm gonna give it that. Um Yeah, yeah, I am okay with it. Yeah, she is messed up, anyways. So she's in love with a robot, but he has feelings for her too. That's mm. Anyways, uh that doesn't ruin anything of the movie because like I said, it's comic accurate, and I enjoyed them later on in the in the franchise, but um their scenes together are really cool too, to be honest. But yeah, it's just that that's the wrap-up that scene between Tony and Steve, that is something that was really well written. It's so good, and really well acted on both of their parts.

SPEAKER_05 3:21:53

And I love this escape thing, this is how he gets out, and he's reading that thing, and he busts through the glass, and then he's the soldier and he's ready to go. And and Tony's fearless, man. I like that he's got that Iron Man hand, but he gets right up in his face, like he gets right up in the in the action with him. He gets thrown around, but like Tony's gonna get in the dirt, you know. Yep, Tony's no one to mess with, and I think I like that too about that about him.

SPEAKER_01 3:22:16

I love the moment when all when all the lights go dark and it's just the emergency lights, and Sharon says exactly where to go, and they start running, and all you see is them running behind T'Challa, like with his necklace, the Black Panther necklace. Like, how obvious can you be, dude? Looking around and be like, Oh, they're going. I must be going too. Yeah, like that is so cool. It's it's so minute, but it just it plays up. It's there though.

SPEAKER_05 3:22:39

Yeah, it's so good. And then, of course, this whole thing with the helicopter, Steve grabs it, oh shows off. Chris Evans, man, the shape of his life. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_01 3:22:48

Oh, that is that is so, so good. Yeah, I love it. You demonstrating his strength, but also seeing Bucky's face looking at him, and because mind you, he's in under mind control at that moment. But it's those little things that help get him out of it eventually. That's right. That it's so so cool. And they're both trying to capture him for two different reasons. Tony's trying to capture him to bring him back into that thing and just you know, stop him. Steve's trying to stop him from like hurting people, but also to like break out of there, too. So it's it's like it's wild.

SPEAKER_05 3:23:23

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:23:23

It's so it's so wild.

SPEAKER_05 3:23:24

Well, and and when he's under mind control, he is ruthless. Oh, he's like a scary individual that guy is. Like, even when we turn the helicopter into Steve, like this, it's just like, oh my god, dude, you are a scary individual.

SPEAKER_01 3:23:34

I am happy that they followed up this film from Winter Soldier with him adjust it making it more of a justifiable reason for his actions as the Winter Soldier for on, you know, they didn't just make him this complicated bad guy that has to go through some emotional trauma and that's it. No, they literally brainwashed this guy, showed how they brainwashed him, and it that's because it it keeps his Bucky's character still morally north. That's right, that's right. Cause this not this right here that we're seeing on our screen right now, this is Bucky just fleeing them. Yeah, but then when you get to the prison breakout scene, that's soldier bucky. That is, that's when they're soldier bucky. Yeah, that's that's not yeah, yeah. That's I'm on team myself, really. Uh, there. Um, anyways. So let's bust into this Spider-Man scene. There's is that in this third act? Oh yeah. Oh, yes, that is.

SPEAKER_05 3:24:31

Oh, but you know, this is in this third act, the airport scene. This is, isn't it? Oh my gosh. Okay, yeah, let's let's This is wild. This so let's just go to Spider-Man right now, right off the bat.

SPEAKER_01 3:24:42

Holy cow. I love I'm trying to remember how they introduced that in in particular. Something where Tony Natasha's talking to Tony, and Tony says, Oh, I got people, or I know people.

SPEAKER_05 3:24:54

Natasha says, I do too, and he's like, Where's yours? She was downstairs, where's yours? He's Queens.

SPEAKER_01 3:24:59

Yes, and then you cut the Queens. And by the way, I love how they cut between these scenes, just to throw that out there real quick, where it shows the city or the place and it's in big white letters. Yeah, Queens. Like in case you can't figure it out, it's right there.

SPEAKER_05 3:25:12

Which they do again in the both of the Avengers movies. Oh, yes, yes, New York City in the year. Yeah, oh yeah. Yeah, they're I love that staple they have.

SPEAKER_01 3:25:21

So good. Anyways, uh, yeah. That whole Spider-Man introdu introduction scene. Genius.

SPEAKER_05 3:25:28

It's funny, it's fun. He hasn't been Spider-Man that long.

SPEAKER_02 3:25:33

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_05 3:25:33

Like a few months, right? I mean, I love that Tony's like onto him, you know.

SPEAKER_01 3:25:38

Yeah. And it's I which it makes complete sense. He would know. Tony would know.

SPEAKER_05 3:25:44

Oh, yeah. I I love it. I love meeting Peter like this as just a young kid that I couldn't believe it. I like that he's you know, like Stark and wants to be part of the thing. I just I think it's smart, you know, because because even Peter goes into this airport scene, he doesn't even know why he's there. He's just there because you know, Tony didn't tell him all the details. He just said, just you just just know you're we're going after Cap, and this is what we're doing, and he's probably gonna try to talk you out of it. Yeah. He goes, but just know that I'm right and you don't need to know any other details. Yeah. That's kind of how he goes about it. Because Peter's not picking a side in this, he's just he's there with Tony. You know what I mean? Like in fact, I think if Peter knew more details, he'd actually be on a cat side, to be honest with you. If it come down to it. Yeah, probably to be honest. Yeah. Yeah. If it was like the the Peter now would be like, no, wait a minute, this isn't right. Well, it's young Peter, just looking up to Tony. I mean, yeah. I love this getting these people together. I like that the I like that Aunt May is a young, good-looking Marissa Tomei. Oh, it just plays with Tony.

SPEAKER_01 3:26:47

That's so good. Oh, for both of them. Tom Holland's an unknown, but he he's he is Peter. Like two of the groups the best. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 3:26:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:27:00

Oh. Gosh. And yeah, Marissa Tomei, legacy actress, right there. Like, oh great eye candy, too, to be his aunt's. Like, oh my gosh. I know what Uncle Ben died now. He died from a heart attack looking at her every day, like, oh my gosh, you're just so beautiful.

SPEAKER_05 3:27:15

Well, this sets up great jokes with Tony because it's just Tony's okay. Oh, oh, yes. He doesn't even he can't help but to flirt a little. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 3:27:25

Your hot aunt out there. Yeah. Yeah. So good. That whole conversation of them in his bedroom. And Tony knows where a suit is, and he's complimenting him on the strength of the webbing that he makes it, and he's shocked. And the the joke of um uh Tom saying, I can't go to Germany. I got algebra. He's like, I'm gonna I'm gonna act like he didn't just say that. Yeah. Like I love their dynamic together.

SPEAKER_05 3:27:55

Their chemistry is move your leg when we sit there now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like just because he's just like so awkward. I laughed out loud too when he when he hits the the web on his hand on the door, and they just it's okay. He goes, Can you just help me with this? Like, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:28:08

Yeah. Yeah, you can't tell Aunt May. Don't you tell Aunt May? He's like, Yeah, yeah. It's so that is it's so funny. One of the best character introduction scenes. I um dialogue. Yeah, they just did one like 10 minutes earlier. Yeah. Yes. And it was good. Yeah. Here's another good one, by the way. They're like, let's pick all these characters, and what's the best way we could introduce characters? And that's what we're doing with Rooster Brothers are behind some of these. Introducing Falcon and Winter Soldier. Perfect. Introducing Black Panther in Civil War and Spider-Man in Civil War. They doubled down on two risky moves, two big characters.

SPEAKER_05 3:28:47

They doubled down. Let's do it. Yep. Do it. Yep. Just do it. They didn't overthink, they just did it. Just do it. And it was perfect.

SPEAKER_00 3:28:56

Beautiful.

SPEAKER_01 3:28:57

Because now we gotta talk about this airport scene. Oh, yes. And to mention to something that you had said uh a couple minutes ago, that um if if Peter knew more of what the whole fight and the conflict was about, he'd probably be on Cap side. I like that they didn't do that because in the comics, one of the biggest things is that um that's the first time Peter Parker reveals himself to the world and he's registered with with Iron Man on that side. Interesting. But of course, you're just introducing Peter, so you can't reveal him to the world when he doesn't even have this iconic Spider-Man suit yet until here. But they did a nod to the comics by making it where Tony recruits him. Interesting. So that was oh, chef's kiss in doing that. So good. It's a great idea. It's a great way to blend both, compliment the comics while also tell your own version of it. So good. The Russo Brothers, they definitely, them and Steven McPhee, I believe, was one of the writers, all of them that that are behind this, they did their homework for this movie. They're like, if we're gonna tell the storyline and we can't do exactly what the comic book couldn't do with all the characters, and the the this would probably be its own three-arc movie, to be honest, is how big of a story the Civil War is, the comic. This is the best way to do it. Yeah. Anyways, airport scene. Yeah. And they get can't uh, who was it? Falcon gets Ant-Man. Yep, yep. What's up, tic-tac? Yep. I love that. I Paul Rudd is hilarious when he's like, uh, you're Captain America.

SPEAKER_00 3:30:33

I know you, you're good too. You're Captain America. Then he feels his pecs. He's like, Oh, yeah. Like Paul Rudd just so good.

SPEAKER_05 3:30:42

He's definitely the comic really for this moment for this whole thing. And yeah, he he does such a good job making it feel awkward, but yet still real funny.

SPEAKER_01 3:30:50

Yeah, and there's right, and it's literally right before actually the um the airport scene. I'm sorry, we're dancing around it, but there's so much I'm trying to remember each piece as it goes up. Yeah, and this is something I wrote, and it I did this on purpose because it's not like an obvious best character moment, but I wrote this as my best character moment for act two, and that's Hawkeye recruiting Wanda. That scene. Yeah, I considered that. Yeah, it's I know that not a lot of people would even think about that too much because there's a lot of bigger things happening around there, but just for character moments, it's a nice nod to Age of Ultron, him and Wanda's relationship, and him coming out of retirement, so to speak, to be like, nah, screw the government, I'm on Cap's side, I'm gonna help him out there. You know, that's big risk he did. Yeah, and um, even though I just pitched a couple minutes about an hour ago, how evil he is, he's not evil, thankfully. But it's such a it's a good scene. It's a great scene of him recruiting Wanda and Wanda still hesitating, not knowing would she be okay or not. And then how he was able to, he Hawkeye can't beat Vision.

SPEAKER_05 3:32:03

No, but he tries. Yeah, Hawkeye definitely gives us uh his best. Yep. I like when he tries to kick him and he goes right through him.

SPEAKER_01 3:32:10

It's like oof, poor guy. And then I love the Wanda does make that ultimate decision. This is my time to leave, I'm gonna leave. And she she buries Vision, like he goes down. He's pretty hardcore, actually. Like, and you watch it, it's a long scene of him going like what in the heck. Pretty wild. So I wrote that as my best character moment for Hawkeye in particular, recruiting Wanda, because that's that was pretty cool. For me at least, um, knowing their dynamic. But yeah, airport scene. Yeah. Finally there. Okay. What are your thoughts?

SPEAKER_05 3:32:44

So, like, what a great moment in this movie, in in any movie, really, of a fight battle scene that it it is like people, it's it's like brothers fighting. Like no one's meant to really get hurt. No one's meant to die. They just need to lose. And it's such a weird, it's a weird uh fight to see in the MCU. Because it's always like dire. It's always like, you know, hardcore. And this is like these people could really, really, really hurt each other. And they're doing their best to not hurt each other, but yet still hurt each other at the same time. And it's just what a it's like a it's a it's like a song. It goes from mild fighting to a little worse to a little worse to a little worse to roading, flying into the ground. Yep. Right? And it's like in the some of the escalations are comedic, and some of the escalations are on purpose, you know. I like that the the at first it's just Cap going out there as like the you know, to get because he knows they're gonna show up. So he goes out there and baits them, and they show up, and then they have this talk, and everything happens, and they have this fight for a little while, and then Spider-Man or Spider-Man's there, and the whole thing goes down. And I just like that it escalates. I like how it escalated, where it escalated, how the fights went off on their own different little spots. The pair-ups of them were perfect for what they were doing, and and it was and they just seamlessly put in character moments with the fight of this epic battle, like you mentioned in the history thing. It's like it's not just a big epic fight, it's these are very serious character moments as well. And funny at the same time, it's like Spider-Man stuff is great. You know, it's one of my I'm gonna say I have several best character moments. One of my best character moments is I love this interaction between Steve and Spider-Man. Yes. Where are you from? You know, and in that whole thing, I'm like, that is awesome. I just like that. It's like, hey, we're fighting, but we're still, you know, like I'm not, you know, there's nothing wrong between us, but I can't let you win. You know what I mean? Like and I love that that's how that is, and I love that so much. I like Spider-Man fighting Falcon and Bucky and Bucky at the same time. Yeah. Because they're just like, what is that? Like, they don't know what to think of that whole thing.

SPEAKER_01 3:35:07

And he it Spider-Man whoops their ass. Like, he he like I love it so much. When Falcon says, I don't, I don't know how many, um, what is it? I'm trying, let me let me get this right. I don't know how many fights you've been in, but there's usually not this much talking. Yeah, yeah. He's like, okay.

SPEAKER_05 3:35:24

And then when he's got them both pinned down, he's just I hate you, 10 bucks. Yes. I like that they're them between each other, it's kind of weird. Yeah. Like they're just like they're buddies, but they're not, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 3:35:34

Like, it's like, okay. It's it it's actually it's a great example of when like a popular guy has two best friends, and when they're together, almost like it we're friends because we have to be. Yeah, we're friends because we're both friends at hand. Exactly. Yes, yes. They amplif are exemplified that really well.

SPEAKER_05 3:35:54

Yeah. And I love that Scott's like, here, throw this at this. Yes. And it's it blows up. He's like, I thought it was a water truck. Yeah. That's so it's just neat to see in this fight, it's like Cap even looks at him like, geez, dude, like, don't do that. Like, you know what I mean? It's like they don't mean to get rough, rough, but it kind of keeps getting there slowly, right? Yeah. And I love him turning into Giant Man. This is one favorite. I put that as another character moment. That's just so cool.

SPEAKER_01 3:36:22

It's that is, in my opinion, after just fresh off the heels of the Ant-Man movie, that is a that was a risk that they did, but it paid off so well. Awesome. Because that's a big deal in the comic book of Giant Man Fighting. And the fact that they were able-that's what I love about this movie so much is that even though they I I think what they must have in the writer's room thought, well, we can't do this book, but we're gonna take the best parts of this book and throw that into this movie and make it work. They should have read that even more.

SPEAKER_05 3:36:58

Yeah. Oh, it's so good. So good. Yeah. Oh. I love him as Giant Man. And I love him going in the Iron Man's suit, messing with his suit. Like this, I just this whole is just from beginning to end of this of this battle, it's just phenomenal. Like, even up to Roadie getting hurt, you know, it's like and both Falcon and Tony are going for him. And I do like that part way through this battle, they're like, Steve, we're not gonna win this. Like now it's just a matter of you gotta get away with Bucky. And like, I just I like that that aspect came out. I enjoy that so much. It just comp it complicates the whole thing at the same time. Uh, it's yeah, what a it's amazing.

SPEAKER_01 3:37:42

I love it so much. I tell you, this this movie is it came out the best time it came out because when you look at some of these characters, especially Wanda and Vision in particular, those two Vision already is formidable enough. But once if you got to um Wanda vision, vis Wanda at that point, Steve would have walked away with the whole team, hands down, because at that point of how amplified her powers were. But this came at just the right time where not only were you just introduced to her, this is where you get a real good first taste of what Wanda is.

SPEAKER_05 3:38:19

Well, and then like even if they did have their full potential, they're really not trying to hurt each other. But yet they kind of are, right?

SPEAKER_01 3:38:26

Like, so it's like Well, it's exactly what you described. It's this dance around of I need to stop you, but you're still my friend. I'm not gonna hurt you. That's why when uh Black Widow and Hawkeye were fighting, Wanda grabbed telekinetically, grabbed Black Widow's leg and threw her against the thing, and she said, You're pulling your punches.

SPEAKER_05 3:38:45

You're like, Yeah, he is, because he doesn't want to hurt Natalie, but at the same time, like But it makes that impact of Rhode hitting the ground, it even now you're like, Oh shit. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:38:57

Oh no, yeah, all of them really I will I will say that if they did not do that, it wouldn't have felt as dire, in my opinion. Like, because of what you said that they were dancing around this fighting each other thing, and they'd had pretty good moments, of course, great character moments between each other. They're only able to have those great character moments, though, because they were literally pulling their punches on a lot of this stuff. But you it upped the stakes with vision with Falcon dropping when he did, and Rhode getting hurt the way he did.

SPEAKER_05 3:39:33

It all speaks to character because it also shown that even though Vision's like this machine, he emotionally got compromised and turned and did that blast out of anger.

SPEAKER_02 3:39:45

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_05 3:39:46

And it it ended up being, you know, like it's just it's like wow, it's it's just a build on all of their characters as you go. I do love in the beginning this whole fight thing before they start fighting. Tony is just so frustrated. He's like, Don't you? See how hard I'm trying to not do this. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, I I do give a lot of credit to him in that. Like where he he doesn't want this, but he's going with it, you know. And I I think he's going with it because I think he his guilt definitely takes over. But Roadie, we'll talk a little later about why Roadie's doing it. I because I think he's got Roadie, Roadie's kind of right in some ways. They're not right about being on that side of the whole thing, but I see where they're where his mind is at for it. Um, whether I I still wouldn't be on his side though. Um so the pacing held up for me. Yes. It got better, if anything. Oh yes. Um, the only other character moment that really I really can't help but to point out in this act is definitely the with the pens between them two. Because that just that's essential because it without that scene, the later scene in act three, the big one, wouldn't feel as important either. Because they you need to see how these two people interact. How Tony feels to him, how he feels to Tony, how they do mutually feel, but also where those differences still lie, you know? Yeah. You need to see those clearly. Um what didn't work for me is Wanda can lose the lose the accent. Just be done with it. But that's picking that's that's not even a problem. Yeah, she doesn't. I'm just saying anytime it does show up and I'm like to stop. We don't care. You don't need to have that accent no more. Yeah. No one remembers it. It does and eventually it just kind of goes away.

SPEAKER_01 3:41:29

It goes away and then.

SPEAKER_05 3:41:31

But there's a couple times that it isn't like, don't do it.

unknown 3:41:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 3:41:34

Stop doing.

SPEAKER_01 3:41:35

Yeah. The her accent, I love that they joke about it later in the WandaVision show. Yeah. That they could come and go. It's like almost like, oh, we forgot. She has to have an accent. So let's give her one dialogue that has it. Just to remind you, she's got it. But they could have gone back and dubbed it out and I put would have been just as happy about it. Yeah. But like you said, that's picking knits because it didn't take away anything. Nothing. Yeah. So yeah. Oh gosh, guys. So um I didn't have anything on here that didn't work for me. This is this is I just put that because I felt like I had to pick something. Yeah, yeah, because you're I'm just staring right now at a blank spot. What didn't work? Nothing didn't work. It was it was wow. Wow. It's just what an act. What oh jeez, this only the second act.

SPEAKER_05 3:42:27

So what's your score on act two?

SPEAKER_01 3:42:29

I gave it a 10 out of 10. Yeah, me too. 10 out of 10. I tell you, this is Marvel at its peak. This is that this is yes, they if you saw, and we're gonna we'll get to there when we get there, but what Russo Brothers staying around to do this stuff, you they found their secret sauce in Winter Soldier. And how do you make it better? Holy smokes what they did. This was a risk. Guys, if you didn't remember when they did the San Diego Comic-Con announcement for phase three, they put up a fake title that said Captain America Serpent Society. And then at the very end, at the very end, after they announced Doctor Strange was coming, uh Spider-Man Solo was coming, um, a Captain Marvel was finally coming, you know, different things like that. And then it was gonna end with Secret War or I'm sorry, um, Infinity War, part one and two at the time. Then they did a special announcement and they said, let's fix one of these titles, and they changed it to Captain America's Civil War and brought Robert Downey Jr. Chris Evans out on stage. Everyone lost their minds. I would have been happy with a Serpent Society movie. I still want that to be. And directed by the Russo Brothers, heck yeah. But oh, to do this, this was ambitious. And it so far, we're just at the end of Act Two. It's paying off. So now let's get to Act Three. Yeah. Go ahead, read her up. Okay, guys, Act Three. Steve and Tony come to blows in the brutal final confrontation at a remote Hydra facility in Siberia. Steve chooses loyalty to Bucky over the team, while Tony, devastated by the truth about his parents, acts attacks in rage. After an emotional and physical fight, Steve defeats Tony and leaves the shield behind, symbolically ending his role as Captain America for now. Zemo's plan succeeds in fracturing the Avengers permanently. He is captured, but his goal of breaking the team is achieved. The Avengers are left divided with Steve going underground.

unknown 3:44:40

Oh man.

SPEAKER_01 3:44:41

Did this ending land for you, sir?

SPEAKER_05 3:44:43

Well, before you would answer that, let's discuss a couple things. Let's just touch on the raft here for a second. Oh. Why the hell do we not see this again? Like, it needs to come back. I love the raft. I think the raft is a cool concept. I think it still needs to be around. But this is definitely where Tony realizes he was wrong.

SPEAKER_01 3:45:04

There, yeah. I think if I remember right, we we see it later on, but it's only glimpses and stuff. Glimpses.

SPEAKER_05 3:45:12

Yeah. Like, because this thing is cool as hell. And but this is where Tony definitely realizes he was wrong. When he sees them all, and he even tells them, because you guys don't belong here. Like, this is not where this is not what I thought was going to happen to you. And like and I like how they're all just like, yeah, yeah, whatever, Stark, you know. And even like what's his face of Paul Rudd's is like, yeah. Hank Pym always said, never trust a Stark.

SPEAKER_00 3:45:36

Yep. They okay, such good dialogue, such good lines.

SPEAKER_01 3:45:42

Awesome, yeah. Yeah. Oh, and yeah, and uh Hawkeye's character egging him on like that, be like, oh, so good. It's it's yeah, it's so good.

SPEAKER_05 3:45:52

And this is when Steve sends him that information. The the whole this see, look, it's not even Bucky in this video. And that Steve's like, or not Steve, but he's like, shit. He's right. He says, send it to Ross. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 3:46:05

Like the if I remember right, it's it's his AI Friday defines the um is uh Joe Russo who's plays the um the guy that died, so to speak. They was supposed to interrogate Bucky and all that stuff. And it's on Tony's way to the raft, he finds that out, and he doesn't reveal it to Ross. Smart. Yeah, very smart, but yeah, he keeps away everything so far away from he keeps it arm's length with Ross. Like, yeah, and he has to convince Falcon that I I want to help him now. Like you have like two minutes while they can't hear anything. It is convincing. It's convincing. Oh, it's it's good. Yeah. And it's oh, it's perfect.

SPEAKER_05 3:46:47

And it leads to it might be my top three favorite Iron Man suiting up scenes. Yes. I freaking love it when he pushes a button in the helicopter and it just sits back and I mean in the emotional aspect of it too. I'm just like, yes, yes, yes.

SPEAKER_00 3:47:01

You know, like all you can do. As he pushes the button, it's going up his hand, and he goes back like, oh, yeah. So come up with that. Like that's so smart. Oh love it so much.

SPEAKER_05 3:47:15

Oh my god, please, yes.

SPEAKER_01 3:47:17

And then I love the as he's flying away, Black Panther's trailing him. Yep, yep. He's like, I'm gonna get this guy.

SPEAKER_05 3:47:25

He's like, I'm gonna follow them. These guys know what they're doing. They're gonna find him for me, and I'm gonna kill him. Oh, so good. So good. All right. Um this choice when they get there to oh uh this choice for Zemo to kill the super soldiers.

SPEAKER_01 3:47:42

Yeah. So you want so fun fact that I go ahead. I think I told you about this as in the lead up to the podcast, but just so everyone else is aware, and this is coming from the Russo brothers directly. About two months before they started filming the whole movie, and everything is, you know, still going through the pre-production process and all that stuff, and Marvel is still in the midst of the Civil War thing. This was the tipping point where they did the management change because um Ike Pearl Mutter and his team in New York did not like that they were gonna kill those super soldiers. They won a super soldier battle. And the Russo brothers said that's not the story we want to tell. And so they threatened to walk away from the film, which was a big deal because at that time their hot their critically highest rated movie of all of them, including the Avengers movies, was Winter Soldier because of how good. And you watch or listen to our retrospectives, you would know, guys, that's how good it was. Yes. Um, Bob Iger, head of Disney, personally brought the Russo Brothers into his office and said, Why are you gonna leave? What's the tension? And who do you report to? What's the what's the whole thing? And they said, This is the story that we want to tell. And to be honest, we communicate 99% of the time with Kevin Feige. And so Bob Iger made that decision at Disney to do the management restructure, cut off the enter the Marvel Entertainment aspect of it, and made Marvel Studios its own independent lane in the company, and said, You report directly to me now. And it was because Bob Iger and Kevin Feige had a great relationship, it was the best decision because it kept the Roosser brothers there to make this creative um decision. And as you're just about to talk about, that is brilliant.

SPEAKER_05 3:49:38

This movie would not be as good if it ended with this big super soldier.

SPEAKER_01 3:49:42

It would have been a generic superhero movie. Yes, and no, you didn't need a safe way out. This movie is doing so good already.

SPEAKER_05 3:49:51

It still needed to be between them. Yes, make it civil war, still between them. Yes, and that's it's so brilliant. When he kills them, I'm like, yes, yes, yes, because it's it makes it feel unpredictable, feels fresh, feels new, you know, it feels like we don't see this. This is not the risk that they usually take. I I can't get over how much I'm so glad that he did this and they had that done.

SPEAKER_01 3:50:16

Yeah, and to have Zemo having Tony watch that scene.

SPEAKER_05 3:50:24

First of all, this whole I one of I laughed out loud when he calls Bucky the Manurian candidate. If he was menturion candidate, you could put the gun down. Now you're I love that because that's that's all about mind control that movie. Yeah. It's perfect. And so so that right there in Tony's humor, you Steve realizes, oh, he knows. You know what I mean? Now he knows. If if Steve knows that movie, because Steve probably hadn't but anyway, you know what I mean? Like in that though, we knew as our audience, oh now Tony realizes that Bucky's been mind controlled, so he gets it, you know? Um yeah, this this uh interaction between when he puts that video on to make Tony watch it, and Steve is watching Tony and not the video because he knows what's happening. I oh my god. I don't understand. I can't put into words that this last half hour of this movie elevates this movie into a whole different way. Not only does it elevate the movie itself and the MCU, but this last half hour solidifies the rest of the movie and elevates it be above the superhero genre, in my opinion. It just turned into pure perfection of exactly what you thought was gonna happen. You know, we're all on Steve's side. And we know Steve's right in the right ear, but there's not one person that doesn't understand why Tony loses his mind.

SPEAKER_02 3:52:04

Yes. And you're almost like Yeah. Yeah. You feel as helpless as they do in the movie.

SPEAKER_05 3:52:18

And that right there is freaking brilliant. I really am like, what can I I don't want I yeah, Tony, yeah, yeah, you killed your ma. Like he Tony knew his dad was into stuff. He understood as he got older that, well, dad, if that was just a video of my dad dying, you could talk him off the ledge with that. Because hey, your dad knew the risks. And yeah, it may have been him that did it, but it wasn't really him because they just used him, and you could have talked Tony down. But seeing his mom die that way, that was that's it for Tony. That's it. Uh-uh. It don't matter now. It don't it's personal now. It does not matter. And then there's this entire fight, you're almost like, I don't know who I want to win. You know, I know Tony can't. Because he's gonna kill him. And we're not gonna do that. We're not gonna do that. But we know that's not gonna happen. But how they get to that. You can almost almost are just like, I get it, I get it, dude. I get it. Like the pain, the acting here. Oh my god, this is so freaking good, man. Like yes, hands down.

SPEAKER_01 3:53:29

That yeah, and yeah, to your to your point, they they knew how they wanted to end this battle, how they want or how they wanted to end the movie, basically, with this. So it's we haven't gotten to the very end yet, yeah. Yeah, this is just this part, but yeah, you're right. But for the battle in particular, they knew they want Steve to walk away and not be killed by Tony, or Tony be killed by him, vice versa. So now it's just how do they creatively tell this uh fighting story be among the three of them with Becky or Becky. Becky Becky, Becky trying to escape Bucky trying to escape.

SPEAKER_00 3:54:10

Sorry, I got you. Well, Bucky trying to escape.

SPEAKER_01 3:54:22

Oh, yeah, because it is literally like them scrambling. Like, oh yeah, he's trying to get up to the top, and then when Tony says I'll eyeball it because he perfect it, be like, oh no, he's so good, right?

SPEAKER_05 3:54:34

Like, oh and it shows this shows how formidable Tony is. Oh, oh my. Does that shot where he's fighting them both at the same time? Yep. I'm like, okay, he's hardcore. I mean, you guys don't sleep on Tony, man. Like he when he's on, he's on. That's why I love the one of my other favorite fight scenes in the MCU ever is between him and Thanos. I know he loses it, but you're just like, oh, Tony. Like he's gonna try. Oh, it gives it all he's got. Yeah, it's like I don't care, it was awesome, right? Like, yeah, and that's that's just like it was this yeah. I felt the same way here. It's like, and then he's just like he's kicking our ass, and he's just like, well, analyze his fight's pattern, and then let's kick his ass. Yes. Oh, and then he does, like he just whoops his ass. I'm like, oh my god, dude, the Iron Man's cool as shit. He's the Batman of this universe, you know what I mean? Like, he's just gonna get it done. And honestly, if it wasn't for the fact that the suit does have its limits, he would have had them both, he'd have beat them both into the ground. I do like that Steve gives him the thing. I could do this all day line. Yeah, we needed that line, it was there, it's so good it happened. It was with them two. I love it. Oh, and I do like this whole, you know, that shield's not yours. My my dad made that shield, it's not your shield. So he drops it and leaves it from the side. The emotional reason to leave it. It's not this whole, I'm not gonna be Cap because I'm mad about what's happened to the school. Yeah, no. There's an emotional reason why it's loud.

SPEAKER_01 3:55:51

He's it's it he's doing it as a way to heal Tony. Yeah. Be like, all right, then you have it. What's even more wild is Cap doesn't get that shield back until end game.

SPEAKER_05 3:56:03

Yes. But isn't it wild to just think in your head? But right now when you think about that. Oh, it's perfect, but it's wild to think that wow, that's that whole time. Like, yeah. That's what's makes us so it just it is, it really is genius. It really is genius. So when you ask me, did the ending land? So let's go right to the ending. I love um that Cap sends him a letter with the phone and says, Hey, if you need me, I'll be there. It's so sincere. Yep. And Tony, he takes it right in. And I love the ending of movies, guys, when it ends like with a punch. When a movie ends with like a oh bam, there you go. I'm like, yes. And when he comes out of the dark in the raft there, I'm like, yes. And then the music starts. I'm like, this is an ending to a freaking movie, man. Oh this is an ending to a movie. Yeah, I want you to talk about. I got a couple things I want to say about 100% for sure, but you go ahead and talk about those things you like in that before I go too long and kick you out of the conversation.

SPEAKER_00 3:57:02

That's okay.

SPEAKER_05 3:57:03

I'm just I cannot, I love this ending. I love the way that the way they handled it. I just I love it. I love it so much.

SPEAKER_01 3:57:10

It's so it's so brilliant. Yes, that it's only three, well, to a degree, three characters, but even like okay, you see what happens to everyone at the very, very end after this battle where they all are and everything. And I oh wow, I almost touched upon the postcred scene. I don't want to say that yet. Or wait. Oh, this is it's just that fight. I I I loved every bit of that fight between all of them. Whenever Tony was trying to get the upper hand and almost succeeding a couple times in getting the upper hand on Bucky, and Steve would step in, and Steve would go so far as break one of his feet um blasters, so he had a hard time even flying up, like, oh, it's so good. He'd blast Bucky's arm off. Oh, yes. Well, that I think it was the the chest. Oh my gosh. That was something that was that was mind-blowing. That Tony would have won. If it wasn't for the limits of the suit, yes, limits of the suit and the resilience of Steve. That's right. Steve knew that they would have died, so he fought with all his might to keep that happening. And even when Steve took the shield up and you thought, oh, is he gonna decapitate him? Like, that's how close it looked like it was getting. And then he just did it just to break the shield to be like, I'm disabling you. I don't want to hurt you. I just need to stop you from killing my friend. Oh my gosh, it's so good.

SPEAKER_05 3:58:40

It's so good. That line to master Tony, he's my friend. He goes, So was I. Yep. It's like, oh my god.

SPEAKER_01 3:58:48

This is just hardcore. It's so yeah, yeah. So that oh, and we get that iconic image that we saw in the comics of Steve and Tony blasting each other, and it it didn't look corny, it didn't look cheesy or rushed, like we had to do this. It just looked like a natural progression of the fight, and they just slowed it down just enough so you got the full impact of that. Yeah, all was such a feast to see visually.

SPEAKER_05 3:59:18

Yeah, it added to the emotion, yeah. Slowed it down because it was emotional, too, at the same time.

SPEAKER_01 3:59:24

Yeah, yeah. Oh, so good. Um, and I love that that uh Zemo was about to kill himself. Yep. He did what he wanted them to do. He wanted to fracture them, he wanted them to pay for what they did in Sokovia to his family, and that was his motivation, and that was and he hated Hydra. He made it clear he hated Hydra, but he also hated the Avengers, yeah. And it all stems back to this whole thing throughout the whole film of their accountability, and he doesn't think they were gonna be held accountable and all this different stuff. And it was T'Challa that grabbed the gun when he shot it and got got away from be like, no, no. And I loved that mindset uh transformation for T'Challa, where in the beginning he wanted to kill them for killing his father and find the winner soldier and take care of him and everything, and then he got it, and it wasn't he didn't held on to it. He he had this this one of the things I like about T'Challa, and I think it was in a little bit in Act Two, and it talks about that he talked about in Act Two, and you saw in Act Three that in his culture they don't believe that death was the end, and then there's there's there's a plane where they're with their ancestors and things like that, and we see that in the Black Panther film, and it really just speaks to the spirit spirituality of T'Challa that he has this piece that he can see the logic when it happens, and he can read the room, and he knows when I'm supposed to be angry and who I'm supposed to be angry to. He doesn't let rage take get the better of him, and that was shown beautifully in that moment there where he even made sure Zemo. He well, I'm trying to remember his exact words to him, but he said, Today is not the day that you meet your maker, or something like that. Something I don't think meet your maker.

SPEAKER_05 4:01:11

The living isn't finished with you.

SPEAKER_01 4:01:12

Yeah, the living isn't finished with you yet. Yeah. So good. So good of a line.

SPEAKER_05 4:01:19

Yeah. Oh yeah, he that definitely shown that he's got what it takes to be a king.

SPEAKER_03 4:01:25

Oh.

unknown 4:01:26

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 4:01:27

Like he's in charge now of because he is now, and he's measured and he knows what he's doing. He knows when it's important to keep your cool and when it's not. And he recognized, he goes, they're they you're consumed by by vengeance, and so are they. And I won't be anymore. You know, he just he recognizes when there's an end to it. Yeah, no, he's yeah, what great character moment for him in that for sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, so good. This movie does a couple things that the MCU's never done before, and they At this point, and this is why it makes this movie what it is, is first of all, the villain wins. And not only does the villain win, but the villain's just a guy.

SPEAKER_01 4:02:12

No super soldiers, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_05 4:02:15

No big old he's not a big robot, he's not something from space. He's just a guy who lost a family.

SPEAKER_02 4:02:21

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_05 4:02:23

Really? And that's he just and he won. He won. I like it when he says that to the Freeman Garter at the end there. He's like, So you've seen all this fall apart. He goes, Oh, is it though? You know, and he's just like, no, shit, it's not right. You know, it's like it's not, you're kind of right, you know. That and this also breaks a thing. This movie breaks the reputation that superhero movies have. Specifically the MCU for sure, but other ones as well. Every MCU movie, every single one, maybe with the exception of one of them, I'm trying to think which one I could particularly pick, but I can't think of one. Every single one up until Civil War ends back at a staging point where we're back to some sort of norm, right? So even like you obviously with the first set of the Avengers when you meet them all, it all ends at a norm. You even even Captain America, the first one, ends with him waking up and he's in New York City, and it's nowadays. And he's just Captain America, and here he is now. So all this happened, and now here you are, all that's over with. Same with Iron Man. It's like all this happened, now I'm Iron Man, cool, ends with a norm. You know, the Avengers, the movie they beat the aliens, everybody's happy, everyone goes home, they're eating Schwarma, it ends. You know what I mean? Age Ultron, it just ends. You know, everybody, everybody, the sick people live, it ends back to a norm. This movie ends in a moment of fracture of these characters. It's the first time that they ended a movie with wait a second, this is like a to be continued feeling. Yeah. And the rest don't do that. You can watch them and just see that from the I mean, God, they do it, they're this so bad sometimes that the Incredible Hawk ended where it started. It didn't even happen. You know what I mean? Exactly. Exactly. So, like they and I'm not saying that this is a terrible thing. And then in other movies do it too. Even Ant-Man ends where you ends at a spot where sure he's now Ant-Man, but you know, he's seeing his kid. It's like there's like this, there's like this a levity of oh, that's over with and back to a norm. Not this. You know what I mean? This ends with captain and them, they're all criminals on the run. Yeah. Yes. And it's like, it's just wild that they just decided to do that. And because they decided to do that, made it made this movie, okay. This it gave the MCU now teeth as it moves forward. Yeah. There's a story here, like deep rooted story to tell. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:04:57

It's so good. Yeah. That actually that leads me right to my biggest issue with act three. Oh no. We didn't get an extended scene of Steve breaking those heroes out of the raft. So you just want more. Just like you in the first act. I uh there was a great ending of seeing him knowing what he's about to do, but I wanted to freaking see that. That raft is impressive. Yeah. And getting those characters out the way they you can imagine how he broke in and getting them out in the middle of the ocean.

SPEAKER_05 4:05:35

He is Steve Rogers. I'm sure Bucky helped him. Bucky would have well, no, he doesn't have an arm.

SPEAKER_01 4:05:42

Yeah, well, no, Bucky Bucky wasn't helping him as well. Well, we don't know when that happens. That could happen after the raft.

SPEAKER_05 4:05:51

Maybe. Either way. Either way. Yeah, yeah. He's still weak. Yeah. Weaker. Yeah, no, I'm with you. I you know what? I have to tell you, as much as I do want to see more of that, I still love the way that that punchy ending of like, you need you know that this is what's happening. And when he comes out of the dark with that little smile, I'm like, yes. Yeah. And he's like black, I'm like, that's cool. I agree. There's another movie called The Gray that ends that way. The whole movie is Liam Neeson about to fight this wolf. And at the end of the movie, he breaks these things on his and he puts these glass things on his hand, tapes a knife to his hand, he gets right down, he's ready to fight the wolf. The wolf is there, ready to fight him, and just as they go to fight, it goes to black and the credits start. People flip out. But like when you watch the movie though, you realize it's not about the fight. Yeah, and this for I'm not saying that this is equal to that.

SPEAKER_01 4:06:36

This didn't make a break, obviously, for me, but it's it was so good that I like that. Power me was yeah, it was just so good of a movie, still up to that point.

SPEAKER_05 4:06:47

Yeah, it'd be a cool scene to see. Like a director's cut of it with that in it, it'd be neat.

SPEAKER_01 4:06:51

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:06:53

Anyways.

SPEAKER_01 4:06:55

So yeah, yeah. Yeah. Um, what's your best moment in um act three? And I I I really wrote the whole thing, but I also put a particular moment I wanted to highlight, which I already did, was Black Panther stopping Zemo from killing himself.

SPEAKER_05 4:07:12

So the best moment in this act three is actually the best scene in the entire movie. And I'm gonna talk about that specifically when we get to the other thing. But I do want to at least mention to me uh my two favorite moments beside that is definitely when Tony sees the tape. That's a great scene.

SPEAKER_03 4:07:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 4:07:34

And and I and I and when it comes down to the action part of it, I do love when he, you know, figures out Kat's moves and starts kicking his ass. I just think it's I just it's just unique that just when you think Iron Man doesn't have any more tricks, he's got one or two more, you know, and you just he's always as long as that suit works, he'll have a reason to keep going, you know. Um, yeah, but the best scene though, I'm saving for it's got two spots later. All right.

SPEAKER_01 4:07:58

So that's fine. That's fine. What's the climax earned for you? Yes. Oh, yes. It definitely actually I said yes, yes, yes. Yeah. So if you had to rate this out of ten, it's a ten. It is a ten for me, too. My gosh, guys, this is crazy. All right, so post-credit scene. Why don't you read what that is?

SPEAKER_05 4:08:21

Steve Rogers visits Bucky Barnes in Wakanda. It is revealed that Becky or Bucky has uh voluntarily returned to chirogenic sleep until his hydra conditioning can be fully removed. T'Challa grants him sanctuary. And I and I think that's the only one, right? That that is the only one. There's no post credit scene after that. And I gotta tell you, uh, it's super important because we get Wakanda right off the bat. And it's cool that Bucky's there. And you know, they never really are clear in the future that he gets that out of his brain, truthfully.

SPEAKER_01 4:09:00

They are in Falcon the Winter Soldier. There's one episode. Oh, that's right. Okay, I'm sorry. Yep, you're right.

SPEAKER_05 4:09:06

I wish it wasn't in a TV show, but you see how much I forget those shows. Um, you're right. I do remember the scene now. But you know, yeah, cool.

SPEAKER_02 4:09:15

Yeah, either way. Yeah. That's cool. Uh oh, the hype level's off the charts. Yeah. Oh, there is another post-credit scene. Is there? It's the Spider-Man one.

SPEAKER_05 4:09:32

Remember, he's laying on his bed and he's looking at the thing that Tony gave him that came with his suit. Oh. Yeah. Okay. It's just a funny one.

unknown 4:09:41

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_05 4:09:42

But it just makes us one want to see this. We actually get to see more of an interaction between him and Aunt May. Okay. And it made us go we realize how awesome this is. Oh, yeah. Doesn't she ask him how to go and something like how it's it's fine, it's fine. Yeah, yeah, she's like, who punched you again? Yeah. She goes, Yeah, the one guy was really, really big. You know what I mean? Yes. Yes. I forgot about that. Yeah. And yeah, so it's more funny, but it also gave us a taste of we're all we're gonna love this Spider-Man meeting. Well, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 4:10:11

Like it's like to that regard, yes, it is hype hype is 100%. I love that their post-credit scenes were related to the two new characters that we are gonna get. They're two different flavors of the MCU that we desperately needed. Yep, it's a great opportunity to give them a little more, a little more time on the screen.

SPEAKER_05 4:10:28

Yes, yeah, perfect. Yeah, because they're brand new, and we get a good quick shot of like the Wakanda wilderness, and we can see their lab there is high-tech, but yet they're still in the woods like that. I do like what he says. It's like they can let see them try when they say you'll come for him when if they find out, and he's just like, Yeah, I'd like to see them try. Oh. Which yeah, I'd like to see them try because they're not getting in there. Like, you know what I mean? Like, it's it's wild.

SPEAKER_01 4:10:51

Yeah, exactly. So score for me 10 out of 10 for the post-craft. 10 out of 10. Yeah, awesome. Here's where it gets tough. Okay. All right, guys. So we're gonna expand this a little bit more when we're going into our um casting and performances, character deep dives. I want to, I I gave this to Ike beforehand because we wanted to talk about each character and whether we like them or don't like them, because this is the movie where you pick the sides, and so I kind of put these on our review form as like cap team, Iron Man team, back and forth. And so we want to do them first, right? Yes, let's do them first, then we'll get to our best performances and all that. That way we've laid the groundwork of what we think of each character, and then we can say how we feel about their performance-wise. Okay.

SPEAKER_05 4:11:40

All right, so these are quick too. I can I can I didn't write I kind of did them in a bullet, so we can't this.

SPEAKER_01 4:11:48

Yeah. All right, so why don't you start with uh Steve Rogers Captain America? Did you like him or didn't like him? And why?

SPEAKER_05 4:11:54

So Steve Rogers Captain America, I liked him, obviously. And it's because he's right, guys. It's what he said. Those things that he said, so we can't be, we can't be, we can't people overseeing us. They might send us somewhere we shouldn't go, or they might send us somewhere that we should go, and we we need to be the ones in charge of that. And he's known that since the 40s, and he's not wrong about it until now. He's still not wrong about it. Even in the end, right, right up until we get to doomsday, he's not wrong about it.

SPEAKER_01 4:12:22

Yep. So I agree with you. I like him. And to piggyback off what you just said, because I agree with everything you said. He also said uh people change, agendas change. And we he sees what a government is like, good and bad. He fought for America against a bad government and hydra Nazi soldiers. Like he sees what happens when government agendas change, and yeah. So I agree with you. Doing this from his perspective, brilliant choice. And uh he's he keeps his moral high ground the whole time. Yep, the whole time. So, yes, I like him too. Yep, yeah, like a treat. Like a treat move. Yeah. All right, um, Tony Stark, Iron Man. Do you like him or don't like him?

SPEAKER_05 4:13:03

I love him in this. He right off the bat, I like the new technology stuff. The thing with Barf is awesome. Um I do like that they touched on the pepper pots thing. I think they realized we gotta at least mention this because whatever's going on, it's gotta just say the name, show that she's not there, and you I'm happy. It's all I need. And it's just perfect. Um, this is emotionally more his movie. Believe it or not. Yes. And like I I I just I believe his position. As much as I disagree with his position, I see where he's coming from because it does play to his biggest weakness, which is guilt. And he's in the worst spot in his life right now, with Pepper and him being on the ropes. Life's not too good. This woman comes and puts a face to these kids. He all he's gonna do is feel guilty, and this is what he's gonna do. And and I like that he changes his mind, but I also understand why he wasn't gonna let that side about his mom.

SPEAKER_01 4:13:58

Yeah, and well, and to your to your point there, it was very important that they had that dialogue of mentioning the he and pepper around a break. Because that brought that instantly gave you the weight of what he is personally going through. Yeah. Because if they didn't mention it, like in Age of Ultron, if they didn't mention it, you've been like, Why are you so upset? You have Pepper, like what the heck? And so it it those little details that people can easily overlook really capture the essence of what they're trying to portray and what they're doing, they're justifying their actions. Oh, and it's all character build.

SPEAKER_05 4:14:36

Yeah, all even Steve shows in that using that same line of where Pepper is, is you know, able to sh let Steve show how much he cares about Tony. Yep. By his reaction to it. It's what the hell, man? How just in like in two seconds of lines, like the other directors should be watching this and taking freaking notes, man.

SPEAKER_01 4:14:55

Oh, so good, yes, yes. All right. Um, so I completely agree with you there for Tony. It definitely emotionally is his movie. Emotionally is his movie. It's so weird that it's both their movie, but still more caps movie.

SPEAKER_00 4:15:08

It just seems like they still held that.

SPEAKER_01 4:15:10

It's like they're they're making Iron Man the antagonist here, but at the same time, he's not that bad of an antagonist. You know, it's it's it's well, there's yeah, just an ideological difference. That's it. He's they still care about each other. It's just they're they are just two different people and their their way of thinking. So it just it's perfect for them. I love that because it really shows you don't have to get along with your friends all the time, you know. Oh, anyways, Bucky Barnes, Winter Soldier. Do you like him or don't like him? Liked him in this a lot.

SPEAKER_05 4:15:44

It definitely so there wasn't a lot of character development really in this for him because it was a lot of just keeping him alive. But he's it just shows how good Sebastian Stan is in this, and the moment of character development that he has, which is all you needed to do, was in the stairwell when Steve realized when he says, I'm not gonna kill nobody, is that you realize, okay, this guy is like this is it's just perfect. It's Sebastian is awesome for this role, but it this is when I really fell in love with Bucky, to be honest with you. This is not that I didn't like him in the others. I loved him in the other in Winter Soldier as well. But this is when I was really like, Man, this guy is I can't wait to see what well. This is when you're rooting for him. More so. Yeah, that's right.

SPEAKER_01 4:16:25

Because the last time you saw him was in Winter Soldier and you felt bad for him because you know But he was the big but he was the bad guy. This one, he's now you understand he's not the bad guy by choice. Yeah, he's the he's the bad guy because this is what they made him into, and Steve is the only one that has his back throughout the whole thing, just like he was the only one in Winter Soldier that given the benefit of the doubt. That's right. He's still brilliant. So good. All right, anyways, yeah. So I love him in this movie. Amazing. All right, roadie war machine. Like him, didn't like him. I like him.

SPEAKER_05 4:17:01

He makes a decision. The decision he makes is basically because he sees the writing on the wall that if we don't do it, they're gonna make us, and he thinks it's a worse war going that way than the other way. I don't necessarily agree with him, but he does make a decision and he sticks to it. And I think he's funny in this, I think he's very formidable in this. And he, in this fight scene in this airport that we're kind of seeing on the screen right now, he becomes the heart of the whole, oh my god, someone almost died, almost got and he got hurt. So there's a there was a price to pay in this, which is a great scene at the end of the movie when he's like, Yeah, this is a bad beat. You know, like he's this is bad, man. So I'm not gonna probably tough if I even walk again someday. And it's just like it just the stakes were there and were still there. There was still some sort of there was still some sort of compromise to be made here, you know.

SPEAKER_01 4:17:46

Yeah, that whole scene at the end of uh Tony helping him as he's trying to learn how to walk and stuff like that, and Stanley's cameo, Tony Stank. Yeah, Tony Stank. He's like, Yep, there's Mr. Stank right here. That's so good. Anyways, yeah, so I I do like him in this movie too. Um Natasha Romanoff, Black Widow.

SPEAKER_05 4:18:06

Yeah, liked her. Uh, like you said, some of her best fighting scenes in the beginning of this movie. Fantastic. And I like the conversation with her and uh Steve throughout. I'm I kind of at first was kind of like, man, she doesn't have much of a backbone, but I really had to do a lot of thinking about it, and I realized that she's she's struggling because she's trying to pick a side and be on a place to make her life better. So she's trying to stick with what's right. She ultimately does what's right in the long run, and I like that part about her character. So yeah, no, I wouldn't say it's an amazing part for her.

SPEAKER_01 4:18:40

It doesn't really stick out, stick out, but it is good. I completely agree with you because she was she's one of those characters for this movie that you're like, why are you with him when you could be with him? Or it seems like you're trying to play both sides, but that is what Black Widow does. She plays both sides, and she makes some valid points of at least we're together as a team. If if we have to all register, at least we're still we have one hand on the wheel, and it makes sense, but at the same time, you know it's just not right to even do this to begin with. That's why when Steve holds his ground, he's like, I'm not signing it no matter what. And Wanda, of course, isn't and all these other people that are following Captain America, they completely agree. And even at the scene that's on our screen right now with Steve about to leave, and she makes a decision to shoot down Black Panther as opposed to stopping Steve. Like, she's she's she's still she's playing the typical Black Widow card, but she's doing it for the right reasons. So she's still doing it as the good guy. It's just this is her way of going about it. And it it to me, it makes a little sense. Well, she can be pushed into a corner, she's pushed into a corner, and she's always had the struggle with her identity. Every single movie that we've seen her in, she's like, she just like in Winter Soldier, she found out she left one the KGB for Hydra, and she didn't realize it. And then what happened to the Avengers? She lost Bruce, so now she's got no romantic interests, and now the Avengers are fractured. She's like, I'm just trying to keep my family alive, the one I'm trying to make.

SPEAKER_05 4:20:13

So yeah, so I her goal with Steve to her might look like she's going backwards.

SPEAKER_02 4:20:18

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_05 4:20:19

You know, she wants to be in the government's good grace is not in the bad. Yeah. So yeah, but I ultimately she does make the right choice.

SPEAKER_01 4:20:25

So yeah, yeah, she does. So I I like her character in this too. I agree. So Sam Wilson, Falcon. Yeah, I liked him in this.

SPEAKER_05 4:20:32

His he played his part. Mostly comedic uh relief was the sidekick, was there for Steve. Nothing really outstanding, in my opinion, though, for him. Um, but I did like him in it.

SPEAKER_02 4:20:43

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 4:20:44

Yeah, no, I agree. Uh yeah. Nothing nothing really standoutish to me other than the Cap's new best friend that's helping him find his other best friend. And he's gonna pick Steve's side with this anyway. Oh, yeah, because they uh they share the same moral ground. They do, to be honest. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 4:20:59

All right. Which is why I'm so depressed that they didn't do write him better for the new Captain America movie. Because they could have made it work. They just they dropped the ball by trying to make another Hog movie.

SPEAKER_01 4:21:09

Yes. I agree. They did him a disservice as a character more more.

SPEAKER_05 4:21:13

Yeah, they screwed him over big time.

SPEAKER_01 4:21:15

All right, so uh vision, like him, didn't like him.

SPEAKER_05 4:21:17

I loved him in this. I think he was awesome. I like that they had that moment at the airport where you got to see that he's struggling with this idea of emotions. And I like that he kind of even talks when he's talking to Wanda about the stone in his head. He goes, you know, the more I try to control this thing, the more he's learning about himself. I like these moments with him because it's like it's a weird thing, right? Because he's kind of a um AI, but he's kind of a machine and it's just it's all weird. Yeah. I like his positioning in this. I think he's used used well, yes and not overused and not underused, like just right. Yeah. Yeah. Because he could have won all this outright himself, pretty much. But you know, he even knows to be measured because it's they're all friends.

SPEAKER_01 4:21:56

Yes. Yeah. Um, I completely agree with everything you said. I think that really starred the relationship between him and Wanda on how he he's developed feelings for her. And yet he still I even love the moments where he says Mr. Stark doesn't want any more um outbursts. And it really that harkens back to the Jarvis part of the AI in him to be like, he's still Mr. Stark to me, you know, when he says those specific words. That's it's really cool. I I love the whole dynamic there.

SPEAKER_05 4:22:27

His individualism is is is slowly manifesting. Yeah. Yeah. And it makes sense that he would sign the accords because of kind of what he said in the meeting. Where it's like, well, everything like this needs oversight, you know, and he's it's like, well, you know, what shut up you stupid machine.

SPEAKER_04 4:22:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:22:44

Yeah. And I that's one thing that I don't agree with his statistics. That since the Avengers came, it it in invites challenge. No, this world was messed up already. If it wasn't for the Avengers, your world would have been gone to aliens. You would have never been visioned.

SPEAKER_05 4:23:01

Yeah, it's amazing that hasn't happened until now.

unknown 4:23:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 4:23:04

Half the stuff that happens, you know later. Yeah, to be honest with you. Exactly. Earth's pretty lucky that they just decided now to come.

SPEAKER_01 4:23:10

Yes, exactly. Right? Yeah. So uh, but I do like him in this film. So I agree. Wana Maximov, Scarlet Witch. Yep. I liked her in this too.

SPEAKER_05 4:23:18

She this was her going from being that kid to an adult in the Avengers. And it just so happens to be she's gotta go on the run. Yeah. But yeah, it's it's but that's it's Steve. This is kind of this this she's uh embodiment of what he was worried about. Yep. Really? So you see what you're doing? This is why it's this is why you can't do this. Yep. And and it so it makes sense, obviously, that she'd be on his side. She wouldn't want that sign the accords because she's she's the one everyone's afraid of.

SPEAKER_01 4:23:45

Well, and that's the thing, that's the thing that Steve understands more so than anybody else, is that she is not doing anything bad, yet they're treat because she is that powerful, they're treating her like she is the worst thing there. This making her Her, like she said in the very beginning, um, when he turned the TV off, she said, they all hate me. And he says, No, they don't. And she said, Oh, they're being very descriptive if you turn that back on. Be like, Yeah, that's true. Because that there, that's all they're doing, is they're like, She did this, she did this. When if they took a step back and looked at what she was doing, she wasn't doing anything wrong. She was trying to save Steve's life and all the lives around them. Well, it sounds like some stuff today, right? Anyways, let's not get into it. Anyways, so yeah, I love her in this. I think this is, like you said, a great growing movie for her that turns her into the woman we like from Infinity War onwards. So, anyways, uh Clint Barn, Hawkeye.

SPEAKER_05 4:24:42

I love him in this because he was just outright, fine, I'll retire. Screw y'all, and he does. Yeah, you know, like, but then it's just then once he realizes what's going on, he's just unapologetically, no questions asked, got your back cap. Well, so what's like whoa, where the like he just you'd think he'd be like with Natasha in a sense of understanding, but he's like, No, this is bullshit. Yes, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 4:25:05

He's that that's his advantage. He's like, There is no question, don't even think about it. Is he there in the Sokovia Court's introduction scene? I I don't remember him being there until remember it either. I think I guys comment in the section, comment in the section comment section down below. Um, I think he shows up for the first time when he recruits Wanda.

SPEAKER_05 4:25:28

I think you're right.

SPEAKER_01 4:25:29

Yeah. But because he makes a comment. I'm out of retirement. Then he says, Oh, I should have stretched before this and all that stuff. I think he wasn't there before. I think you're right. Yeah. Anyways, heck of it. Yeah, yeah, probably. Yeah. So, anyways, I love that. I yeah, I like him in this. Scott Lang, Ant-Man.

SPEAKER_05 4:25:51

Yeah, comedic relief and some of the best visuals with in doing the giant man thing, sold me 100%. Yes. Love it. I love it. And going in Iron Man's suit, love it. Yeah, I like him in this. And it makes sense he's on Cap's side, he's kind of a criminal, anyways. It was just it it in making it funny about it. He'd be like, Yeah, it's kind of illegal what we're doing or whatever. Yeah, okay, whatever, it's my life. You know what I mean? Like, yeah. It's like to me, it's like cool. And I think he's definitely more of a cap lover anyway. He is, he's key on it. He loves cap.

SPEAKER_01 4:26:20

And then well, yeah, when they said you knew you understand when you do this, you're gonna be a criminal now. He's like, What's new? Yeah, story melting, yeah. Literally is. I love that they played onto that character a little bit. And the only smart thing though I saw of him doing was trying to do that thing with what he thought was water tank, and it turned out to be gas or whatever. Um, so that I am after our Ant-Man retrospective, I am now keeping a little more of an eye whenever he pops up as where is those smarts that we saw.

SPEAKER_05 4:26:49

Yeah, and it's kind of there. This one didn't need it.

SPEAKER_01 4:26:52

It didn't need it, so it didn't sour it. It's not like we needed it.

SPEAKER_05 4:26:55

We could argue though, the idea that he can go giant though, and yeah, and that he's like, let's do this. And yeah, this is a surprise.

SPEAKER_01 4:27:01

This is my last big yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 4:27:02

And he was able to, yeah, he still had an ace up his sleeve.

SPEAKER_01 4:27:05

Exactly.

SPEAKER_05 4:27:05

In that kind of kind of way he would in his life.

SPEAKER_01 4:27:07

That's why Tony was like, Does anyone else have any fantastical powers? We have no idea.

SPEAKER_05 4:27:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:27:15

They're like, giant tiny man's huge now.

SPEAKER_05 4:27:17

He's huge. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:27:18

The biggest swear word they get is not a Spider-Man too.

SPEAKER_05 4:27:20

He's like, holy shit. This is this teenage kid.

SPEAKER_04 4:27:24

He's like, holy shit.

SPEAKER_01 4:27:25

I'm pretty sure that Marvel had to jump through hoops to make sure Sony said you can say that for 13, 19-year-old Spider-Man or something. It is an awesome day he said it, though. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 4:27:35

Like, yeah, that is perfect.

SPEAKER_01 4:27:38

That's all you would say. Like, yeah. Because he is still that kid that would say something like that. All right. Um, Tachala, Black Panther. Oh my god. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

SPEAKER_05 4:27:49

What the heck of an intro. Amazing. Yes, I love him. He just, it's it's so perfectly done. It's so perfectly done. Yeah. And and obviously he's on Iron Man's side, but it's more of a personal thing. It's got it's not, I don't think it's I don't think ideologically, when it comes out the political thing, it's on his mind. No. He just wants to get Bucky because he thinks it's exactly.

SPEAKER_01 4:28:09

Yeah, no, he's exactly. He's not there on behalf of the government, he's not there on behalf of the the accords or yes, it's it's I want Bucky. Because that's who he sees as the bad guy. So yeah. Alright, those were our character deep dives for that. Now performances. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 4:28:28

So this is hard. Oh my gosh, this was so hard. Um Wow. I just see who I wrote down.

SPEAKER_05 4:28:39

Best performance for you, sir. So my two honorable mentions are Chris Evans and Sebastian Stan. Um I think I think they I think Chris Evans does awesome in this, obviously. His cap, every time it's great. Um, he's probably the closest to second or to the first. Um, and I think Sebastian Stan has great moments in this that can't be can't be overlooked. But I gotta tell you, the best performance, the award for me, it definitely goes to Robert Down Jr.

SPEAKER_01 4:29:07

My exact person too. Like, holy lord. Wow, for a cap Surf film. That was he it is, it's it's a whole other level.

SPEAKER_05 4:29:17

It's some it's some of the best Iron Man Tony Stark Iron Man movements. Like just he is outstanding in this movie. Yes. Outstanding.

SPEAKER_01 4:29:27

Yes, both as Iron Man and as Tony Stark. He's oh the his scenes, his dialogue, the way he like it's it's the traditional Tony Stark thing, but what really got me more was how he could hone in on rage and really the express that and show that.

SPEAKER_05 4:29:45

Oh that is that's the moments he has in this are just insane. Yes, insane with the intensity.

SPEAKER_01 4:29:51

I don't see this type of stuff in his his solo films, not like that at least. Yeah. So that's great. Yeah, that's fantastic, anyways. Yeah, I completely agree with you for that. All right, um, most surprising performance.

SPEAKER_05 4:30:04

I'm gonna give that to Sebastian Stan. Because I needed to see more of Bucky as Bucky. And once it once you realized it was Bucky and not the Winter Soldier and him being in and out of it all the time, I that's when you really got this feel of him. So by the end, when we are at the post-credit scene, and he's like, Yeah, I think it's just safer I'm here. It's like, and then even just before they go in, like just before they get to the end here and they're both bantering back and forth, I'm like, I'm just it's surprising to me because it took me this long to like him this much. It might not be the right answer for this section, but I have to say it because it really stood out to me.

SPEAKER_02 4:30:40

So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:30:41

No, that's fine. Uh most surprising performers I put for myself were two people, Chad Woodboseman and Tom Holland. They're great choices. First time introducing to the MCU. And honestly, this is such a character-heavy film already, and the Rooster Brothers' first time actually doing like an Avengers-level film that you easily, like understandably could have dropped the ball in one of these characters because you're focused on some of these other things. They never did. And the casting-wise, for them, for a complete unknown like Tom Holland to get it, it was perfect. It's like he was born to play Peter Parker. Yeah, that's he's my close second. And Chadwick Bozeman, like you said from the very beginning, he when you see him on screen and he just turns his head, he commands your attention just by basic little movements. And so it they're both to me captivating. He was captivating and he was Chadwick Boseman was captivating. Tom Holland was like ripped from the comics, exactly how I would have pictured Peter. So I had to give their it's surprising at this time for their introduction to have that. So yeah, I'm with you. Yep. All right, weakest performance, if any.

SPEAKER_05 4:31:50

So this was tough. Um, but I if I had to pick one, I'm gonna just gonna say it because there wasn't a lot for this character to do. The moments that this character did have things to do, um I I would say is the only time I was like, well, that didn't quite hit me the way I thought it would. And that's gonna be the person that played Sharon Carter. Yep. But it's got nothing to do with her, I guess. I just it's just was it's just not it's just not a big part. And and there's nothing else bad. So she just got the short end of the stick on this in this spot for me. So that's where I would that's where I'm gonna stick with that.

SPEAKER_01 4:32:28

Yeah, uh for me personally, I don't I don't didn't write anyone down. I did leave this blank because I agree with you for her um her parts that were small. So there's one scene in particular I did not like, but that's that's just a personal taste, guys.

SPEAKER_05 4:32:46

Um but yeah, it's it's the one we what do you want to talk about, or are we gonna save it for your the worst scene? Because it's gonna be my worst scene.

SPEAKER_01 4:32:55

Okay, then let's save it for the worst scene. We'll talk about then. But yeah, I it's still a good scene. It's still good. I love the stuff around the scene, I would say. But that particular moment, I'm like, eh. But other than that, her part, her delivering those iconic lines from the comics of the funeral, I loved it. So when they did give her when they gave her screen time, it was really well done, except for one little part. But other than that, so I I will agree with you there. Emily Van Camp will probably have been the the worst, if I had to pick, but or weakest, I should say. But um, other than that, really well done on everyone's part, even for what Emily was given, well done on her part. Um, casting wins or misses. So the wins are across the board.

SPEAKER_05 4:33:41

There's no misses in this movie. Yep. This is this this is a great example of casting perfection.

SPEAKER_01 4:33:48

Yes, I I I agree. I I initially wrote down Chadwick Bozo and Tama Holland, but honestly, that's only because they're they're brand new to the scene. Yeah, good point.

SPEAKER_05 4:33:56

The good it'd be great. That's great to point out, at least. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:33:59

Yeah, but I I agree with you. I think that for performance-wise, all of them, even the MCU veterans in here, they all stepped up. And it was shown really well. All right, missed opportunities.

SPEAKER_05 4:34:13

So I have one. Okay. Um, and it's and you know what? It's un it's inconsequential. Okay. Which in meaning which, if it's not in the movie, doesn't change a thing. If it's in the movie, wouldn't change a thing. But maybe a cameo from Nick Fury could have happened. Yeah, he's they hit everybody, but he's just not there. But you know what? I don't care. Yeah. Because there wasn't Yeah. But there could have been a, you know, something. Yeah, I can see that. Who knows? It could have been could have been something dumb. You could have been just one boom, and he's there with a couple lines and Sam Jackson it up and he leaves. Other than that, that's all I could think of that this was missing.

SPEAKER_01 4:34:51

Yeah, no, I I completely understand. I'm the only thing I'm gonna take this time at this moment to mention in regards to this. Um, there's there's no missed opportunities for me or waste of potential on the cast or characters, so I there's nothing on there. But I wanted to mention because we haven't yet um uh helmet Zemo. The the the villain to a degree of this movie. Um like if they had to have a physical embodiment of the villain type thing, not the ideological one. Uh and I I did a little bit of a type up on this because I know when you watch this movie, if you're not familiar with the comics of what Zemo is, I'm gonna first and foremost tell you that they did him better in here than I can't picture the comic version being in this film and it will work out. So I did a little comparison just so the audience and you uh don't know if you know much about him from the comics. Almost nothing to you can find out exactly what the Russo brothers did to him and why, in my opinion, it it leveled him up. So in the Marvel comic and the Marvel Cinematic universe, Helmet Zemo is a grounded, tragic figure driven by grief, the loss of his family to Altron and Sokovia. Um, in the comics, Zemo is an aristocrat, unapologetically evil Nazi and Hydra leader, uh, deeply devoted to world domination and his family's supremacist legacy. So, first off, motivations and ideology. In the MCU, as we see in this film, Zemo's sole motivation is personal revenge against superpowered individuals. He fundamentally believes that superheroes are dangerous and that nobody should have that much power. He hates Hydra and has no interest in ruling the world. Whereas in the comics, he follows a long line of supremacist nobility. His core driving force is to restore his father, Baron Zemo's legacy, conquer the world, and eradicate Captain America. Um, there's like five points I have on here so you get the full picture of the differences that they did with them. The backstory. Um MCU, he is a decorative intelligence officer and commander of the Sokovian paramilitary unit. Um, he his turn to villainy is a tragic response to collateral damage from Age of Ultron, whereas in the comics, he is the 13th Baron of the Castle Zemo. He he grew up embracing his family's Nazi and Hydra affiliations, training as a supervillion from the start. And for appearance, in the MCU, he operates mostly without a mask, relying on his intellect. Even um he eventually does don his iconic purple mask in the Falcon and Winter Soldier as a nod to his origins, but his face is never permanently disfigured. Whereas in the comics, he frequently wears the purple hood or mask, which is permanently fused to his face, and a vat of uh super adhesive called adhesive X. He is f uh facially disfigured. Not in this movie. Um powers and super science in the MCU, he's just an ordinary human with zero superpowers, relies on entirely on brilliant manipulation, psychological warfare, and specialized military training to divide and conquer. Whereas in the comics, um, he is very intelligent, but also utilizes his father's uh super science, which is how he created that's that um adhesive X stuff. And then later on, he got serums um through powers of another character. Really? And then the last thing is team leadership in the MCU. Zemo works as a solo person, a brilliant plotter who hates superhumans, um, though he occasionally leverages Bucky and Sam for specific temporary goals. In the comics, he's deeply tied to forming and leading a villain team called the Masters of Evil, and eventually in the comics, part of the secret creator of the Thunderbolts with Thaddeus Ross.

SPEAKER_05 4:38:56

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 4:38:57

So I just wanted to give a little side-by-side comparison of what the source material is and what the Rooser brothers did to him in this film. Now, if you are a true comic fan and just didn't want Zemo to ever be tampered with, I can see where you'd say he shouldn't have been in the movie or be part of this, because if you're that much of a comic crazy fanboy, but this is brilliant. How they did so good with they revamped him for this film and it made me like him. Yeah, compared to the very comic-y, comic book-y villainy that they had to work with. Creative writing right there, mutt very much needed, and it was perfect for this. Yes, yep. So, anyways, I just want to take a moment to mention the the villain there, um, to really give you guys a full picture of what they had to do in this movie to make him work, and it was brilliant. Yeah, for sure. Couldn't agree more.

SPEAKER_05 4:39:55

All right, direction. When you were explaining that, all I could think of is earlier in our show when we were doing the the competition thing, and like that is as far different than as you can get. Um, you know, so you could do that thing with Dr. Doom with Al Pacino thing. Yeah, but I'm just saying it's funny how they just they're just like, you know what? Screw all that, we're gonna do this. Yeah, and man, it's so much better. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:40:17

I can imagine when they're in the writing room and they're like, Who do we want Captain America's villain to be? Be like, well, we haven't touched Zemo yet, and they're looking at Zemo's profile and they're like, How do we do this?

SPEAKER_05 4:40:26

Then really Zemo in name.

SPEAKER_01 4:40:28

Yeah, especially when they already decide they want to do the Civil War and be like, I'm glad they didn't mention Helmet in the whole movie. They didn't mention it, even though it is.

SPEAKER_05 4:40:38

I'd be a super villain too if my name is Helmet.

SPEAKER_01 4:40:41

But yeah, I love the Rooster Bows were like, Yeah, let's just rewrite this. I don't think they'll mind. And we did not mind. Right. It was very good. All right. Um, direction and production.

SPEAKER_05 4:40:51

Yeah, I mean, these directors are fantastic. You know, the cinematography is great. Um, very iconic shots and moments that they went through. Um, the action is just on par. It looks great. The CGI is on par, it looks great. The music is just amazing. I think it does a great job. The only thing I gotta say for this whole section, pretty much, is how amazing to double down on these guys. You know, I'm glad that they were fought for for their version of this film. When I say they, I mean the Russos. And it's just it's just shows that they know what's going on. So they oversaw this, and this is a masterclass of how you should do a superhero movie. At least of this quality in this brand.

SPEAKER_01 4:41:35

Yeah. Oh yeah. That's all I got to say about that whole spot. I I agree. I wrote amazing for everything of this, because it really is. I'm glad that they stuck to their guns. I'm glad that the events happened the way that they did internally in Marvel Studios and in Disney. And also at the same time, think about it this way, guys. Not only was all that happening, Kevin Feige had to go over to Sony Pictures when Amy Pascal was eating the sandwich, and she's like, We need to do another Spider Man, and they just fired Andrew Garfield. What do we do? And he's like, give him to me. And she got so mad she threw the sandwich at him. That's wild. And then you think about it and be like, you know what? That's a genius idea. So, in the midst of Kevin Feige getting more creative freedom and control over the Marvel Studios and the MCU as a whole, he also just got an amazing deal done with a rival studio that it's still blowing my mind at Disney being the type of company they are would even have done, allowed such a thing to happen. All at the midst of the same time. Yeah, it's pretty wild. Like the Russo brothers, they said in the recent in or in an interview, because this year is the 10th anniversary of this film. That's right. Yeah. So they they said that they, up until the day before they started shooting, they didn't even know if it was actually gonna happen. They had the cast, they had everything all done. They were still waiting for one final green lit, and Kevin Feige literally walked through their doorframe and through the doorframe um just gave a thumbs up and he says, go right ahead. And that's it. Then they were able to shoot the next day.

SPEAKER_05 4:43:15

That's wild.

SPEAKER_01 4:43:16

So that could have dramatically changed the whole thing if something a pen drops somewhere, you know?

SPEAKER_05 4:43:21

Wow, that's crazy.

SPEAKER_01 4:43:22

Oh, anyways, what a crazy cool thing.

SPEAKER_05 4:43:24

Can't wait till we have this like 60-year anniversary, four-hour long documentary of these movies, right? Yeah, because that's those stories like that I want to hear. Because there's got to be a ton of stories like that.

SPEAKER_01 4:43:33

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Anyways, um, so we're moving on to hot takes. Yeah. Do you have a hot take for this?

SPEAKER_05 4:43:40

I'm gonna double down on my last one when it comes down to the Russos. I'm gonna double down that as good and as right the decision was to give this movie to the Russos, they still are dooming the rest of the MCU by making such a good movie. Too good, guys. You're too good. They're setting the bar too damn high. Yeah. And some do not meet up. No. Boy, they try, but you just you just how do ya? How do ya?

SPEAKER_01 4:44:10

Yeah, no, I I mean the the stuff that we see on on this film is like so good. Um anyways, yeah. So my hot take, probably one for most of the hardcore comic fans of of anything, is how do I want to say this exactly right, and you hear me loud and clear when I say this. This is a hot take, and you come at me for this. Doing a comic accurate version of this film would not have worked as well. Oh. Even if you had every character at your disposal, doing a comic book, doing a comic accurate version of this film would not have worked this well. Yeah, I agree. This is an epic comic book. I'm not dismissing it or belittling it. It's so good that the Russo brothers wanted to use it as inspiration for their film, but they would not. Some things don't always translate well, and I cannot picture you doing this book, this comic book, into this film at all.

SPEAKER_05 4:45:13

So you know the comic book really well. Let's say hypothetically they have all their characters were this far into the MCU. Do you don't think they could do an Avengers Civil War part one and part two, two movies three hours long, tell it closer to the book? Because you don't well, you won't want it exactly like it anyways, but more closer to do you think they could get away with it then? I think I Because not in a one and done at this point in the MCU, no way could they get away with it.

SPEAKER_01 4:45:39

Yeah, no, but I think because there are so many characters in here, it definitely can't be a two parter. This will be more like a phase.

SPEAKER_05 4:45:47

Oh, so tell each character's story differently and throughout the whole thing.

SPEAKER_01 4:45:51

If you did a comic book accurate version of the Civil War thing, which that's why they won't do it, because it's a whole phase. That's that's what five to six. Years of movies on just one comic book because it touches upon everybody. If you try to do a comic accurate version of this, you will do a hands down a disservice to a character in here somewhere.

SPEAKER_05 4:46:14

It'd be like an Avengers Civil War part one, and then four movies that deal with it. Avengers Civil War part two, four movies that deal with it, and Avengers Civil War part three. Yep.

SPEAKER_01 4:46:24

That'd be like a whole that would be probably the best way to tackle it. Ridiculous. Yeah, ridiculously wrong for just one comic line. That's why I see that can't do that stuff because they're like, there's so many other stories they could tell, and these actors only so long in the MCU sometimes.

SPEAKER_05 4:46:38

They wouldn't tell just this one.

SPEAKER_01 4:46:39

Exactly. Yeah, no, I yeah, I remember the time the time that they did this with the characters that they had at their disposal and the way they're able to rework the main plot points of the Civil War comic into this, brilliantly mastered it. Brilliantly mastered it. They would not be able to do that, so that's my hot take. I like it. Good hot take. All right. Uh quick fire questionnaire, answer fast, don't overthink. Best scene of the movie. Okay.

SPEAKER_05 4:47:09

I haven't talked about the scene yet. The best scene in the movie is just before Tony and then watch the video of Tony's mom and dad dying. The conversation between Zimu and in Captain America is the best scene of this movie. When they're talking through the glass there, and Zimu is just having this conversation, and he goes, 'Cause it's funny being this close to you, is like there's there's still a little bit of green in those bright blue eyes. There's this unique, it's neat to see. I'm glad to see that there's even flaw in you. You know, but like it, but it just the way they start talking and how Captain is asking and things, Cap realizes he lost somebody, and he immediately goes to the compassion side of it. He's like, Oh, you you lost people. Like he's like, like he feels for him in that moment. Like even this guy that's doing what he's doing, Cap's like, Oh, well, no wonder you're doing this. You know, but Zemo just his hatred for him, this scene, that scene for his acting there, the best scene in the movie. That's a very good pick. That's a bad I mean there's there's a lot of good scenes in this movie. This is that scene though, I'm glued and I'm watching and I'm like, wow. Wow, what a scene. What a scene between them two.

SPEAKER_02 4:48:32

Wow. That is a very good pick of a scene because it's it's personal.

SPEAKER_01 4:48:38

It is. And there's no way that they can be face to face without that glass there in their room. If it see, I would for me, I would put that as my underrated scene. Because people probably wouldn't think about that that often, but it still keeps true to who Cap is.

SPEAKER_05 4:48:56

I don't have a spot, I don't have anything in my underrated spot yet.

SPEAKER_01 4:48:59

I really didn't either.

SPEAKER_05 4:49:00

So I'm like, you know what? That sounds like that. This might take up three spots. Yeah, that's gonna be one of them.

SPEAKER_01 4:49:04

Yeah. Well, I would say that my my best scene of the movie is when um Cap is captured and he and Tony talk with the pens. Man, it's a good scene. Yeah, you're right. Because it reinforces the earlier scene of the then discussing the Sokovia chords and why they have this ideological difference. Yep. Yep. Even when they're trying to make a compromise, there's always something that's not right, and Steve holds his ground.

SPEAKER_05 4:49:33

It's a good choice.

SPEAKER_01 4:49:34

Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 4:49:38

What's next, guys? Oh my. Um, least best scene.

SPEAKER_05 4:49:42

So I just had to pick a scene that I liked the least. Because I think everything in here is fine. Um, I could I could care less. Here's the thing the scene still needed to be in the movie. That's the sad part about it. Maybe one part of the scene didn't need to happen. But this whole little kiss he shares with Sharon.

SPEAKER_02 4:50:04

Yes. Whatever. Yeah. But you know, it doesn't hurt the movie at all. It just isn't my least favorite scene. I agree.

SPEAKER_01 4:50:15

That to me and it might be more of a fan theory thing because I think it's not continuity-wise in the MCU, but um they heavily implied that at the end of Endgame, when Steve goes back in time and he's with Peggy, there's that version of him that was living on, and then he would have seen his niece grow up and stuff like that, and it makes it sound it makes it now. Obviously, Doomsday probably is gonna be changing a lot of this because now we're gonna find out where he went after that, and then seeing Steve continue on. But it was heavily implied at that time, and so I might I might change my reason for it later. So it felt a little cringy to me, him kissing Sharon. Yeah, but at this moment, none of that's happened yet. So it hasn't, so I give him the benefit of the doubt.

SPEAKER_05 4:51:04

It still felt Steve's not gonna be weird about it later.

SPEAKER_01 4:51:07

No, and I love when Bucky and Falcon are like Yeah, their reactions are great. They're not only their reactions, but right before that. Can you move? No. And then so Bucky scoots over, and then they're both smiling at Steve, like, yeah, you get it.

SPEAKER_00 4:51:20

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Get it, boy. We're both proud of him.

SPEAKER_01 4:51:23

Yeah, so I I do appreciate all that around there. It's just that that is, I agree that that that first part is not as not needed.

unknown 4:51:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:51:32

But at the same time, it doesn't hurt anything.

SPEAKER_05 4:51:35

The argument for that is this still needed to be Caps movie. So if there are gonna be any moments like that, that's who gets it and that's where it's gonna be.

SPEAKER_02 4:51:41

Exactly. I get that. So it didn't hurt it at all either. All right. So, um best villain moment.

SPEAKER_05 4:51:50

Yeah, Zemo talking to the Caps through the glass. I what he says to him, how he says it to him, it's mean, it's hurtful, it's shows the vengeance in him. It shows it's taking over that he just yeah, that's to me, that's yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:52:05

I wrote Zemo killing the super soldiers. Yeah, that's because it's unexpected, and that's probably what we needed. We needed that. We needed something unexpected because everyone had up until this point, even right before the whole airport thing, the whole reason why they're going to the airport to fly away is because they were gonna fight a whole bunch of super soldiers they thought were gonna be released and turned out plot. Um plot point or whatever. I forgot the right wording, but nope, plot twist. Nope, not gonna happen. All right, most punchable face for you. Ross. I have two, so yeah, Ross is one of mine.

SPEAKER_05 4:52:39

Yeah, just you know what? It's not even for what he stands for, it's how he talks to them. It's just how he acts. He's just such a pompous dick. Yes, he's just in the one-word answers, you know, he's like, dude, get the hell. You can at least be nicer. Like, I will it's part of your job being a dick because you're great at it. Like, that's that's just if it if he wasn't that, not that it bothers me. It's fine, it's the character, it works just fine. But it's just why? Like this, you need you need somebody hasn't punched you in the face in a long time.

SPEAKER_01 4:53:11

I will point out that this is Williams Hurt's first appearance since the Incredible Hulk.

SPEAKER_05 4:53:16

Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:53:17

And uh I remember at the time when that happened, I remember being in the theaters and seeing that because there was a lot of speculation on are they even gonna make the Incredible Hulk be part of continuity because they changed the main actor, and we haven't seen anything from that ever since then. That's a big deal then. So when he showed up and he still was playing Ross, for me at least, and for other people, we're like, oh, they're keeping some continuity with that film. Yeah, whether you like that or not, at least they were like, We're gonna keep that. Yeah, yeah. And he is a great actor, so he he basically carried most of that film as the the best actors ever. I wish he wasn't such a jerk. So I wrote him, but I also wrote that Hydra guy that had the book, the the brainwash bucky.

SPEAKER_05 4:54:00

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:54:01

Part of me is like, you're still a Nazi, so I won't punch you.

SPEAKER_05 4:54:03

Yeah, no, that's very good, very good reasoning.

SPEAKER_01 4:54:06

Yeah, yeah. Anyways, um, okay. The prop that you would take home. Yeah, I picked the book. Oh, his his book? Okay.

SPEAKER_05 4:54:16

I did.

SPEAKER_01 4:54:18

Okay. I I I like that. I like that. I picked the Sokovia chords. Okay. When they when he threw that on the on the table and you got to see it, I immediately thought I would like that book, that that whole packet of what the this thicker than my Bible, Sokovia chords. Nice. All right, I like that too. Yeah. Alright. Um underrated moment. I think we mentioned that as the um Yeah, I yeah, I'm gonna I'm also gonna conversation.

SPEAKER_05 4:54:46

I do think that the other this the moment with the pens is underrated too. I don't think that's talked about enough either. But yeah, I definitely am gonna also put in there the conversation between Steve and Zemos and the glass, which is funny, it gets a lot of recognition from me. But guys, you understand how much I love that scene.

SPEAKER_01 4:55:02

Yeah, well, it's a great scene, and uh, I don't see that as being mostly recognized a lot, too. Most overrated moment. I have no idea. I maybe the kiss. Who cares?

SPEAKER_02 4:55:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 4:55:14

That's it. We'll just put it as the kiss because there's nothing. It could have been any girl. We just want to see Steve.

SPEAKER_02 4:55:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 4:55:19

Yeah. I'd have rather been the girl with the lip piercing. I'd have left. That would have been funny. It would have been funnier, right? Yeah. But other than that, I can't think of a moment in this movie where I thought, we're not taking it seriously enough. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:55:33

I agree. All right. Um, funniest moment for you. Um I got two.

SPEAKER_05 4:55:38

So I really there's a bunch, but I'm gonna pick just one. And it's it's a there's a setup to it, and then when it happens, I love when he tells Ross, call me. I like to watch my life blink when people are on hold. And then at the end, he does call him. He goes, What? I'm gonna put you on hold. He's like, No, he's like, puts him on hold. And Tony follows through with that weird stuff that he does, which is another weird thing he does, like, don't hand me things or whatever. You know what I mean? Like, so I love that. To me, that's funny. I laugh so hard because is that a serious moment in the movie, but he's like, Oh, I'm gonna put you on hold. And like, oh my god, he's doing it to him. Yeah, yeah, I picked that because I just thought that was that was perfect.

SPEAKER_01 4:56:14

Great, that's a good one. So the the I picked two. One of them was between Tony and Peter Parker in his room when he's like, Can you even see through these things? Whoa! And then Tony grabs and is like, Yes, I can see through them. I thought that was funny, his just his overreaction for that. And then the other one is when Ant-Man grabs the shield and gives it the cap and he says, I believe this is yours, Captain America.

SPEAKER_05 4:56:38

Oh, he talks to him.

SPEAKER_01 4:56:40

Exactly, it's exactly how he talks to him be like trying to impress you. Captain America. Like it's just how he says it. I thought I instantly laugh when I I watched that. That was pretty good. All right, most emotional moment.

SPEAKER_05 4:56:52

So I had to think about this one for a few minutes because this has got a couple really great moments in it that you could pick from. And I gotta tell you, the scene I felt the most emotions that had me hit the feels. Like it just I couldn't help it, was watching Tony process what he's looking at on the screen of that video. Robert Downey Jr. does this thing going from we're figuring this out to what is this? What's going on? to that out of control, like just what he does and how when he turns to Steve and he says, Did you know? You know what I mean? And it's just that moment when you ask him twice, I'm like, Yeah, wow, that's powerful. What powerful stuff there. There's other moments in this movie too, but that one I have to say, I think stuck out the most to me. You know, because the obvious answer is gonna be Peggy, right? You know, I almost put Peggy down as the weakest performance, just for a joke. Um because it's so hard to come up with one, right? So bad. I mean, she enjoyed it, she laid in the casket. Oh my god. The easy way out to hone it in. Um yeah, no, I think I think that takes it for me though, only because that is I get it. You know what I mean? Like I get that.

SPEAKER_01 4:58:19

Like, oh, I like it. I like it. Yeah. So I I wrote two down and they're for two different emotions. Because usually you think of emotional and you think of sad. Yeah. So I wrote down Tony going after Bucky and Kath for like the the rage emotion part. That's the most vicious I've seen them. Even when he goes against Thanos, I feel like the this one is you see it more. Yeah, yeah. And that might just be me. And when we get to those retrospectives, maybe I'll I'll negate that a little bit. But I I really only remember seeing that look on his face when at the very end when he takes the helmet off and he he has the rage on him before Cap does the shield down, like, wow. Like you could see it. Wow. Yeah. Anyways, so that, and then I did write Peggy's um uh funeral for for Steve in particular. Um I just did I just don't feel like it hit the emotional chords it could have. For me personally, it did, only because you see the tears starting to well up in his eyes as he's carrying the casket, and then it was the speech that uh Sharon gave because I knew it was directly from the comics and how it was executed brilliantly that that made me feel wow, they really took care of this comic risk rest in peace moment, you know.

SPEAKER_05 4:59:38

If maybe if I'd have known that, it would have hit me a bit differently, but it just kind of to me felt like it was happening and it yeah, it was sad, but like already had that moment, but it probably would have resonated more with me if I'd have known it was right from the comic.

SPEAKER_01 4:59:51

Well, they didn't have to go that extra mile to literally put in those words. They could have reworded it, they could have done something different, and they didn't. They were like, you know what? Some things are just perfect the way they're originally written, so let's just keep this part the way it was. And I appreciate that the Rooster brothers saw that and kept that. So, anyways, final scores, guys. Out of two, what's the story for you, sir? Two. Same thing for me. Characters, two, same thing for me, action and visuals, two, same thing for me, emotion and stakes, two, same thing for me, rewatch ability and MCU impact.

SPEAKER_05 5:00:28

Can we give that one a three?

SPEAKER_01 5:00:31

That would be pretty cool. Three out of two. Sure, why not? All right, so what is your final score? I mean, guys, this is the first 10 out of 10 out of me. Me too. This is a this is best MCU right here. Hands down. I felt weird when I wrote 10 out of 10. I thought, is this right? Because we haven't gotten there yet. Even with Winter Soldier, we were like 9.5. We were right at the cusp. But yeah. So the official This movie is awesome. The official Goodell Multiverse score is a 10 out of 10 for Captain America Civil War.

SPEAKER_05 5:01:07

If you see, it's not gonna be the only 10 out of 10. It's not. This is just the beginning. And then what's wild about that is when we do our final list, we'll have to do some points to make it to like we'll have like you know a few tens. Oh, yeah. Okay, so which one of these is better than the other one? You know what I mean? And that that is gonna be a task on its own. So all right, so if you had one sentence final review, I would say for my one sentence, is where Soldier paired with this landed them both as good movies that even exceed the genre of superhero movies. Uh yeah. Marvel. This this movie makes Marvel officially cinema. So eat that, Mr. Scorsese's. What you say. That's a great movie right there. Oh, and you know it.

SPEAKER_01 5:02:03

He knows it. He knows it, yeah. Yeah, I could not give a better final review than what you did. I just wrote down this is one of the best m Marvel movies ever made, and probably ever will be. Yeah. The Eye Ledgers. Oh. Is there any pitch you would have done differently? No. I figured not me either, guys. Oh, so thank you for staying with us on the Goodell Multiverse and going through this retrospective review of literally one of the best Marvel movies ever made.

SPEAKER_05 5:02:36

It's gonna have that title for a while.

SPEAKER_01 5:02:39

Alright, so what is next on our plate, Ike? All right, guys.

SPEAKER_05 5:02:43

So hey, uh so next, guys, on our plate, we're gonna be going into our next episode. Um, we're gonna be doing a retrospective of Doctor Strange. This will be a fun one to do. It's been a while since I've watched Doctor Strange, so I'm looking forward to watching it again. Um, and then so look out for that and keep an eye out for when we're definitely gonna be doing uh hot takes when we do our next episode. We'll have some great news stuff for you. We'll have some more rumors that we're gonna dig up. We'll put some shorts out there. Um and keep an eye out. We're not sure when yet, but Sammy's been getting it ready, and we filmed it the other day. We had a great time doing our X-Men One thing, guys, when we filmed it. And Sammy's in the middle of editing it right now. Keep an eye out for it. It it was a great time.

SPEAKER_01 5:03:29

Oh right, it's turned out real good. We had a blast. It was it was it was so fun, and it was it's just great to revisit those characters again. And I'm actually excited because not only are we doing this, but we're preparing for next month's special this weekend, this upcoming week, next weekend, technically, when we do Doctor Strange for X2, X-Men United. So um, it's funny. We're gonna have both of these filmed before I get the first episode released to you, but I tell you, it will come out this month in June, the first episode. So yeah, that post-credit scene. I totally forgot about it.

SPEAKER_05 5:04:03

No, yeah, there it is, where he sees I don't even know what he is that he has, but it's it's funny though, it's cool. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, but yeah, hey guys, like, subscribe, share this with friends, watch this, guys. What'd you think of Civil War? Do you agree with us? I hope you do, because guys, this movie's awesome and it's just one of the best. Like this is peak MCU. This is a golden age of it, too. We might have a couple, you know. I know Doctor Strange ain't gonna be a 10, but ain't gonna be a two either. Yeah, you know, so like there's gonna be a couple that kind of falter here and there, but I gotta tell you, man, when moving on though, with this, it's it's it just gets better for a while. For quite a while. We got a good few movies to go to. These next stretch of movies are gonna be a lot of fun to do. Not gonna lie.

SPEAKER_02 5:04:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 5:04:45

Not that they haven't been fun. These are great. This is great. This movie, though, man.

SPEAKER_01 5:04:51

Yeah, well, it's what a game changer. To piggyback off of what my brother just said, do exactly what he said, guys. Like our social media. We're on TikTok, we're on Facebook, we're on Instagram, and especially, of course, we're on YouTube. Stream wherever you can stream your podcast, guys, for the Godell Multiverse podcast. And uh tell your friends, tell your family, tell your enemies, get the word out there for us, guys. And until next time, see you at the movies.