Ep17 - Spider-Man: Homecoming Retrospective with Werewolf by Night Review

The Goodell Bros discuss the latest news, dissect the latest rumors, breakdown Werewolf by Night, and review Spider-Man Homecoming!

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

On every timeline in every universe, there's one thing that we always talk about. Marvel. Hello, everybody. Welcome to the Goodell Multiverse. I'm Isaiah Goodell. And I'm Sam Goodell. We have a great episode for you today. We're on episode 17, guys. Our March to Doomsday. We are pushing right along. Um, look for our uh we right now on our page, you can see our X-Men 1 thing. So check that out, guys. We just did X2 the other night. And I just just to give you a forewarning, we had a blast. And it's a fun movie to talk about. So watch for that coming. Samuel have it. We'll talk to you more at the end about that stuff too. But I'm gonna give you a quick agenda of what we're gonna do. If you're new to us, then you know hit subscribe, like, all that fun stuff. But let me run down kind of what we're gonna do for you guys, for your newcomers. Uh, we're gonna have a multiverse minute. It's gonna be our first segment, and we got some real fun uh news articles and news things that had popped up. We had to pick between some this time because there's a lot of different stuff going on out there right now, guys. And and some of the stuff we got going on is I mean, is X-Men weird or what? We're gonna talk about the cartoon, especially the first three episodes. It's gonna be different, right? And I think Spider-Man and IMAX need family court because they don't know what they're doing. So we're gonna talk about that. And uh yeah, I do believe Disney needs a plumber because they got a lot of leaks. And we're gonna discuss this whole thing. Should we talk about it? Should we not? What's it mean that they are? Sammy and I had a good talk last night that we're hoping to kind of repeat or at least do again here because we got a lot of good points, you know, and we're hoping to dive into that for fun, guys. Then we have a rumor real mon a rumor mill rundown next. I got papers flying, guys. We have fans going, just so you know, it's 10,000 degrees right now in New York. So we're sweating and we got a couple fans going. So if you see us, we're not under distress, no one's holding the gun to our head. It's just friggin' hot. I said to Sam a few minutes ago, we need to figure out how to do this podcast in the pool.

SPEAKER_04 2:05

Maybe, maybe Kevin Faggy's holding the gun to our heads so we don't talk about the leak. Yeah, but there's definitely something right now.

SPEAKER_02 2:11

Um, I imagine can't wait to see the after effects of this story. That's but we'll talk about when we get to that. Oh, yeah. Yeah, so rumor middle rundown will be right after our multiverse minute, guys, and we're gonna see talk about in that possibilities of whose ass Magneto's is gonna kick in Doomsday. It's not whether he loses or not, it's who he's gonna be. Um and Carl is back, more about that. And uh we're gonna we're gonna have a a glimpse into the future for Marvel, um, possibly. And it's nothing that's news yet, so I'm not gonna complain yet. But there's a few things that are rumored that movies that are coming. There's a few. We'll have a good time with that. I looked over the list and we'll have some laughs because some of them make me go, nah. And some make me hope it happens. And hey guys, today we're not doing a game this time because we actually have our branch point breakdown is back. Um, we're not doing a special movie with our with a guest today, but we are doing Werewolf by night. We're in the timeline now where this comes out. This will be a very interesting talk. Um, I had to watch this again because I didn't quite watch it the first time it came around. So this is a little more newer to me than before. I remembered it, but then I'm like, oh no, I better really watch this again. So that'll be a fun talk to get through that because interesting, interesting show. And then, guys, of course, our main event's gonna be Spider-Man Homecoming. I mean, we're gonna do a nice little long retrospective about that. And boy, do we I got some juicy stuff. I think Sammy does too. And another good movie that we're gonna have a good talk about. And you know, there's a few things that will be interesting to bring up. And yeah, I think we'll have a good time with that one. I'm excited. How do you feel about our show today, Steve?

SPEAKER_04 3:49

I I'm excited to give a little glimpse of how I kind of feel about a Spider-Man movie, just to let you guys know, as we've said this on the podcast before, this really is the golden age of Marvel MCU. So it's these type of movies, you're you're fairly gonna get a more overall positive response. We'll talk about any nitpicks that we have, any things we will have done differently, you know, little things like that. But that's the thing. This is at this point of the MCU, they're little things. It's it's when you get to phase four onward, then we touch upon bigger, overarching things. But I'm excited. Spider-Man, he's so cool, and there's a reason why he's so popular. I even have a little uh snow globe right here of him, which is really, really fun. So um I'm I'm excited, and we're gearing up for the new Spider-Man movie coming out, so that's gonna be really fun too. Um, the werewolf by night thing, in case any of you are wondering, we are filming this right now July 3rd, 2026. So I know it's a little early for like a Halloween-ish type of a special type thing, but with our schedule and how we're going to get to phase four onward, and we're gonna cover the TV shows as our branch point breakdowns. We wanted to get the specials done too before we reach Endgame and Infinity War. The things are gonna take up most of our time and talking. Um, so we're we're doing this one this week, and I believe is the Guardian's holiday special next week. So I'm excited to review both of them because it's been a hot minute since I've seen them, and I had a ball watching Werewolf by Night again, to be honest. Yeah, yeah. I was I was pleasantly surprised by my rewatch of it. So I'm excited to talk about that with you guys today. And of course, the rumor stuff, I love theorizing what the next phase is gonna be. So when that came out, I thought, whether this is really stupid or not, I just can't wait to talk about it just to see what creative juices are out there, you know?

SPEAKER_02 5:41

Yeah, I couldn't agree more. Yeah. Yeah. And to add on what you said about the golden age of Marvel, yeah, when we started our podcast, I internally was like, I can't wait to get to Civil War. Because when you look at the lineup after Civil War, it's like banger after banger after banger. I mean, gosh, we just did Guardians of Galaxy Volume 2, and then this movie, and then next week's Ragnarok. I mean, guys, gosh, we're it's just exciting, right? And it's like it's just I can't I really can't wait to talk about Ragnarok. So uh I know, right? Oh, so many thoughts on that movie. But all right, guys, so hang in there with us. We're gonna hop into our multiverse minute and get talking some news. Hello, everybody. It's the Godell Multiverse here, and we are on to our multiverse minute. Maybe 45 minutes, sometimes an hour. Today might go a little longer. I'm not sure. Uh, we got three things, but there's there's a lot of meat to this today. And hey, just so you know, happy birthday America, 250 years, you imagine. Still a young country, though. Yeah. But man, we're kicking good. You know, hey, you can all say what you want. You'll you are lucky. You'll you won the lottery if you're born in the United States.

SPEAKER_04 6:50

Yeah, there's a reason so many people want to come here, whether the visit or stay.

SPEAKER_02 6:54

So we'll discuss how to make it better at a different time in a different podcast, but be very happy we live somewhere where we can do this like we are now. Exactly. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 7:03

So, yes, I I echo your sentiment. God bless America. Happy birthday.

SPEAKER_02 7:08

All right. So I'm gonna jump right in to I'll read our first one and then I'll let you take it over from there and we'll we'll talk about it. This one's pretty easy and simple and fun. Um, we're gonna talk about X-Men 97, guys. Is it really too weird or is it not weird, or is it all right? In anticipation of season two coming out July 1st, which was yesterday. Uh, the first four episodes of X-Men 97, season two premiered, and left jaws dropped by attendees. We also got a new trailer. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:40

I've watched the first three episodes, which is what's available on.

SPEAKER_04 7:47

Yeah, actually, I I am sorry. I I noticed on here, I believe that's the same write-up that I had for the last one.

SPEAKER_02 7:55

So, guys, let's let what what this is is what we're doing for nine X-Men 97, is we're gonna talk about the first three episodes of it.

SPEAKER_04 8:01

My my apologies. I should have noticed when I did this up because it's just back-to-back X-Men, X-Men. So um, yeah, so really it's the first impressions of uh for us now, yeah. Yeah, the first three episodes.

SPEAKER_02 8:15

Yeah, sorry about the A guy. Like I said, it's 90,000 degrees out here, you know. Give us a break. Anyways, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 8:21

Forgive me. All right, so uh so have you watched them? I've watched the first three. Yeah. What do you think? I've watched the first three. Um it took me a while to get to them, I'll be honest. Usually for a show like this, I'm I'm so eager to to watch it. I watch it the the time exact comes out type thing. But you know, we're reviewing Spider-Man, Warwolf by night, and parmi me is like, I want to make sure I lock in those first, and then I can watch this and not feel like rushed in watching it. Yeah, and so I watched it between last night and this morning, so it's very fresh in my brain. And I gotta tell you, this is really cool. This is, in my opinion, a step up from season one. And it in a couple different ways. One, I love this, I love that we released the first three episodes, and I feel like that's intentional because each episode deals with different parts of where we left off from season one. They have the past, present, and future. And I loved exploring every bit of each episode to see what does the future look like right now? What is their present going on with Jubilee, who's kicking some major butt, by the way? Oh, yeah. Um, and then, oh, I got, I just have to say, just a personal preference, I love the past one, the third episode. Yeah, so not just because rogues in it, of course, but young apocalypse. Oh my gosh. Oh awesome. Yeah, he I I would love to see Oscar Isaac do something like that for Apocalypse for a change. Just, you know, like a couple scenes of just young apocalypse. That's so cool. Anyways, so I I love them. Um I I gotta say, my favorite parts, I'll just touch upon this real quick for the first episode is all the dynamic between young Nate Summers with uh his mom and dad, and seeing how that how how do they justify to them why they're not here, but also understand why they're not here. And it was it was very well handled, I think, for the writing part and the writing, by the way. The lines for Storm, for Cyclops, Storm is so good, for Gene. Oh my gosh, whoever is writing this, they need to be like behind the scenes involved in the X-Men MCU uh when they come in. Because just some of these beasts, I could listen to him talk all the time. He's just it's so cool. So, yeah, they really got the writing down, at least for the dialogue to a T. Um, yeah, I I like that in the first episode. The second episode, would you believe? Like I said, she kicks a lot of buttons, and I do appreciate um them sh demonstrating a little more of her power set that everyone just thinks of her just shooting off fireworks, but really what those really are are mini explosions that just look like fireworks. So to really see how they could tweak that into oh, she can make it look like a boomerang going around, she can make it look like uh a star being exploded. It's really cool. And I love, I appreciate that. Because in our fan writing of X-Men, we wanted that type of Jubilee to be in there, to really show a little bit more than the side character that she usually gets to be. So I I appreciate that. And of course, my favorite moment is Emma Frost in the second episode. I love that they brought her into it. I love all of her dialogue, her sass, and that she double-crossed them. I'm like, that's exactly the Emma that we need. And I can't wait to see when she does decide to be a good guy because, oh, she could be your best friend or your worst enemy, I tell you. Uh, anyways, and you could tell how much I love Emma Frost. But um, then the third episode, like I said, is my favorite, only because I love dealing with the past stuff. I thought that was really cool. There are times where Magneto is talking to Insabanur and he says a Magneto line like, You must realize you're a god among insects. And I'm thinking, don't encourage him, because we know what's gonna happen. Army is yelling at the TV. Parmi is like, have you not learned yet? And then there's other parts I'm like, okay, I see what you're doing, but also he magneto, he's one of those where it either could go one way or the other. You really don't know. Yeah, and so I I appreciate that because it keeps me on my toes and at the edge of my seat. But also, parmi is like, don't put those two in the same room, not while Apocalypse is so young and gullible.

SPEAKER_02 12:35

You know, no one gets bad habits, right?

SPEAKER_04 12:37

Now you blame Magneto for it. Right. But I did like that end touch of that episode where um Magneto and Xavier are talking to each other and giving different points of view. And I actually agree more of Magneto on this side, where he says to Xavier, Who I'm trying to remember the exact wording, so forgive me if I get it wrong. But he says to something to the degree of, what if apocalypse had your dream? And instead of trying to conquer the world, he tried to save it and bring humanity together as the first mutant, as opposed to decades upon centuries later, of now you're trying to fix a broken world, you know. I love that aspect of it. And part of me is like, I want to see how that plays out. We know it's apocalypse, it's not gonna play out exactly to that. But to give that little sense of hope for all of them, especially Xavier, I think that's kind of cool. So yeah, that's just my thought. All right. Well, what do you think?

SPEAKER_02 13:36

Yeah, I I agree with you. This I'm gonna say a few things I like, and then I have a I have a pretty I won't say it's a hot take of this whole thing, but I do have a real big like thing to say about all this. First of all, I love the exposition and this stuff. So, like you said, the writing is on when they're explaining things and showing stuff and doing some like you know, showing back in time or whatever, or just how they explain stuff. None of it's boring, none of it feels out of place. It's in the character's voice. This is some of the best storm we've had for a while. I love it. Um I like the wacky sci-fi future stuff. By the way, I want to point out, and I it's might not be true or not, but in my mind, is not some of the visuals in the future. Does it not remind you of the Brian Singer's Days of Future Past Futures look? Yep. Like when you look at the beginning of that movie with like the neon and the ground and the pathway, that's something I'm like, oh my god, it looks like it comes right out of that movie. Which is actually quite amazing, in my opinion. Um my only let me get a off, like a way, like done with what I don't like real quick, because the rest I like. I don't care about Morph. It bothers me. I don't like his look. I didn't like it in the first place. Um, and he's and his lines are terrible. He's the only character for me. This is my big thing. What I love about these X-Men cartoons, especially season two, but and season one, but season two so far is proven so far to be potential probably way better than season one. Is it feel it transported me back to when I was a kid. I'm like, man, I watched it with my daughter, and she had never seen these. So don't call CPS and mean that she hasn't seen the X-Men stuff, even though it's probably it's definitely child abuse. Um she should see it. So she we I'm reverending over the next few months, we're watching as many X-Men things as we can. So she's gonna watch the movies with me as I do them, and we're gonna catch up. And she's in on board because she goes, I don't know why you guys love it so much. But well, have you seen it? She goes, No, I'm like, oh no. So we gotta fix that, guys. Yes. Um, but I told her this reminds it's even the opening song and how they do it with like you know, showing the character names and stuff, which is something I want to point out. I like when it's going to do different versions, it's a different opening for each, which is an awesome idea. Um, but like I told it, it just makes me feel like when I was a kid, this is how it felt. It looks like when you're a kid, they talk like when you're a kid, the the dialogue's on point. It it's just awesome. Morph's the only one that makes this show in the moments he the stupid little moments he's in feel modern. And I gotta be honest, it's kind of like I just wish you just stay true to what it was before and not giving in to whatever the woke reason is that you have him this way. And I'm okay with it, whatever you guys are gonna do, what you do is creative freedom, it's your stuff. But I just you know, it's I don't know, it's just there's something about it that when he shows up, I'm like, oh, he's so new in and abrasive that way that makes me feel this makes me feel like a modern, and I and I struggle with the modern cartoons. And this technically is a modern cartoon, but God don't don't feel like it at all.

SPEAKER_04 16:50

Feels like it's the old show, and yeah, and that's what they wanted you to feel, is just like a continuation, yeah. So I agree. I I I'm not too much of a fan personally of the the character, not only the redesign, but also the reimagination of Morph. I kind of liked how he was in the original show, but that that's the only character I will say that I I haven't I have a little bit of an issue with. But other than that, the rest of them spawn on. Great.

SPEAKER_02 17:18

And I like the idea of sending a team in the past to change things. And then, you know, well, we'll send someone in the future in case they can't, that doesn't work. It's like a it's like a you know, you got two bullets. How are we gonna use them, right?

SPEAKER_00 17:32

And I gotta be honest with you. This show is probably the single thread that I hold on to.

SPEAKER_02 17:43

Well, it's the second thread now. The first thread is that they hired the people who wrote the bear to write X-Men. And to me, that's good because we're gonna get some real deep dialogue, we're gonna get some things that have more meaning than just what's on the surface. Um, but this show is the other, especially watching these three episodes. I actually have a little more faith in what the uh the MCU can do with a live-action X-Men. Because they get X-Men. The dialogue in this is excellent. The way the characters are, I mean, you get the this is awesome, Magneto. This is awesome, Xavier. Just you just describing the conversation between them two. This should be in a live-action movie conversation. I even go as far as say this, guys. I almost wish they didn't make this season. I almost wish that the mutant saga that they started. I almost wish that they saved this story for an Avengers style movie apocalypse Star Wars story. Could you imagine you know, X-Men Apocalypse in the MCU being then sending two teams to do just like they're doing in this?

SPEAKER_04 18:53

Yeah, and yeah, having having three teams, past, present, future. You could do a days of future past with apocalypse scenario type thing like this. That would be so incorporate some of the other characters we like, like the Avengers and all that. So, but it's mainly mutants fighting mutants and everyone else is there. Yeah, yeah. That that that's that's the hard part, I think, when we're getting into talking about like the future of the MCU, incorporating mutants. They're they're a whole race, they take up a lot of stuff. And so it's how there's not too many that I could think of on the top of my head. And I know there are some in the comics, obviously, where it's the you know, it's a company-wide event, so everyone's involved in it. But where it's a mutant as the the bad guy, like apocalypse or a sinister type thing, and then it has to be an Avengers level event that includes everybody. Most of the time it's X-Men fighting them, and that's not bad. That's good. We like it, it works, of course.

SPEAKER_02 19:51

But what a unique mix that could make.

SPEAKER_04 19:53

Yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:54

How can you do that? It'd be Avengers Apocalypse with the X-Men logo behind it, right? Someone who was sitting in the meeting for this season and didn't say, Maybe we should save that for the movie, because this is a great idea. I'm not complaining, I'm loving what we're getting. I'm not saying I'm not, I'm not definitely don't think I want I don't want the show gone. Yeah, I just didn't think it myself. Just the concept of the young in in Sabonur, like being like still kind of like you might be able to change this guy's mind, and having that, how many times can we have Magneto and Xavier have the conversation about ideals and what should be done, and it doesn't feel not fresh? This felt fresh. But this felt like all the times we've heard them talking about how things should be done. This is like, wow, what a unique way of thinking about it. Because like you said, Magneto's right. And Xavier's probably even like, geez, uh, you know, I kind of understand where you're coming from. Even Xavier's just a little cautious, right? But Magneto's kind of, hey, think about it, Charles. In the long run, this guy could be the answer to what our whole problem has been. Yeah. And then what a unique movie to see evil apocalypse in the future them battling him and them trying to make him good in the past, and how it might emerge. Like whatever happens, maybe how crazy would it be if it they succeed in the past. And halfway or part way through, you get to the end of the movie, and the end of the movie is things change, and he's a good guy. Or at least you think he is. Yeah. And then Sinisters in the scene. You know, I mean, I'm just saying, there's so I was just so impressed. Where I'm like, I just hope, like you said, sit these guys down as they help us with the movie, too, because this they are writing the right X-Men. Um this is my favorite. I loving Scott. Loving a Cyclops. Loving I told I'm gonna draw a thing, I draw a lot, guys. I'm gonna draw it and I'll present it here on a thing. A thing of Cyclops doing his beam, all the cool shit. Um, but like that line he says at the end of that first episode to his son when he says, So what about these people? What do we do? And he just says, Good men don't they Good men is it? Yeah, good men don't search a leadership son, they summon to it. I'm like, man, if he didn't learn that from Xavier, right? I'm like, if you're good and there's people that are good, they're gonna you're gonna find each other. And then you're we're gonna fight together. And it's like this this is this show is so full of hope. And it's like this is the X-Men. This is the X-Men. Yes. So what gives me pause and makes me go, okay, wipe my brow and just calm down. Because at least someone working in Marvel right now knows how they should be. Yes. So and then, like you said, we have some good examples, like the one-minute scene in Doctor Strange, yeah. Xavier right, then they killed him. Yeah. But they got that right.

SPEAKER_04 22:48

But at least the moment you had him on screen.

SPEAKER_02 22:50

It was true to the is.

SPEAKER_04 22:52

Oh.

SPEAKER_02 22:52

Yeah. So, like, I mean, it it's a it's a bad movie where I felt the most emotion in. It's such a mixed bag. But like this, though, it gives me hope for the future of what the X-Men is. It just gives me, I'm looking forward. I haven't been this interested in a cartoon in years. Yeah. You can't get me to watch cartoons, guys. Like I said, it's not, I don't, I don't diss it. It's just not for me. And it's just not my medium. I I excel in. I mean, I've only seen Toy Story One. Sorry. Everyone's saying I'm missing out, but it's like, I don't know, I don't really feel like you know, so but I I'll eventually watch some of this stuff. I've been working on it. And maybe through some of our retrospectives, we'll we'll do a few fun ones.

SPEAKER_04 23:30

We'll do a Toy Story special retrospective episode.

SPEAKER_02 23:35

I I only asked if we do cartoons at all, we have to do American Tale first. Because if you're gonna talk cartoons, I like the old school, the really scary ones. American Tales scary. Those cats, hell. Release the secret weapon. I love that show. That's a great movie. Or the wave in the beginning with the face? No way. Like, but we gotta talk about the ones that are littlefoot watching his mom die four times. Like this, I mean, that's some of the I can't handle it. Yeah. But that's what they had us watching. You guys old enough know. Sammy knows. You know, you guys think some of this stuff is sad that you see in some of your cartoons. Oh, we watched her lay there with her last words after T-Rex gouged her out. Yeah. It's heavy, man. Anyway, yeah. Leaving that fox behind. Yep. That old lady shouldn't go to hell. Um, so yeah. But anyway, how do you do that? Right. So take your if you love your dogs, just imagine driving them out in the woods and leaving them there. What is your problem? Or Bambi's mother because we don't even understand why she did it still to this day. She did. You guys don't get them. We're not supposed to. Come on. Anyway. Well, back to X-Men. Yeah. I love Young Apocrypse. I love the past stuff. This is gonna be a ball. I can't wait to talk more. We should talk about the next episode as it come. Yes. In even if you want to do it in this segment, or we'll just add it on. I definitely want to talk about it. But well, the bigger take I have on it is part of me is almost like, boy, this is an Avengers kind of movie.

SPEAKER_04 25:01

This could be a good movie, let alone that you're talking about. That's my favorite episode. The three is the third one about the past. So the Pharaoh is King Rama Tut, who is a Kang variant. So there are ways you could bring other things. Yeah. This is you know what I love a lot about this is and because it's Marvel Studios is doing it now, they have the creative freedom to use anybody. That's why we saw in the first episode Morph turned into Thor for a brief moment. Be like, that's kind of cool. But um the this episode, this is bad guy versus bad guy, and the heroes are there to try to get back to the future and figure out oh, they have a chance to change one of these guys. Oh my gosh, that is a cool movie concept because you don't want to root for apocalypse, you don't want to root for Ramatut, but you're like, What do we do?

SPEAKER_02 25:57

Yeah, and if you think it's too complicated, just look at Days of Future Pass. Similar in that sense, where it's about going back, changing people's minds. Look at it it changed Mystique completely, right? Like I, you know, yeah, I just had an epiphany as you were talking. If this was gonna be a live action movie, I have the perfect fan casting for Apocalypse, young and older.

SPEAKER_00 26:19

Who? Tom Hardy. Playing both. You imagine? Because he's the kind of actor that dedicates.

SPEAKER_02 26:28

He could lose a little weight. You'd use a little CGI and some makeup to make him look a tad younger. But he's a mutant, so he doesn't have you don't have to explain why he looks the same age. He's just apocalypse, right? Oh, he's yeah. Yeah, we would just say, and then later it's obviously like, you know, he's looks wild. But can you imagine in like if he gets a little smaller and then they give him a year to gain some weight and he gets like bang size to play apocalypse? Mm-hmm. And the actor that he is, he'd be an awesome apocalypse. He would be an awesome because he's he could be a very menacing actor. Like he's a great actor for that. He'd be an awesome apocalypse. I love I love I Oscar Isaacs, don't get me wrong. Yeah. But if we're redoing it, right? You know, I mean, I don't think Oscar would touch it with a 10-foot pole. You all crapped on him so much, he's like, fine, take it. But which I feel bad because if he was here, I'd hug him because he's amazing. First of all, he's a great actor in everything he's done, but then let alone what he did with apocalypse.

SPEAKER_04 27:23

It's just yeah. Whether he had a I mean, he's he said we talked about this on the podcast before, that he didn't have the best experience because of all the stuff they had to put on. But I mean, that's they make them realistic to the best you could. And honestly, that was the best way to do apocalypse, especially at that time.

SPEAKER_02 27:39

So I don't know how familiar you are with Tom Hardy, other than what you saw like with Venom and stuff.

unknown 27:44

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 27:45

Is that really all you know about Venom and Bane? Off air, I'll just show you some clips of him and other stuff. And it's like he would his apocalypse would be awesome. Yeah, like I'm gonna say I wouldn't want him to be just like Bane, but he's the kind of guy that would get all big to just kind of you know, oh man, fantastic, call him, back the truck up. So yeah, I'm all set with this. We can go another, I can talk another half hour about this, but yeah. Well, I I'm I'm ready to move on if you want.

SPEAKER_04 28:11

Yeah, no, honestly, I agree. I agree with everything you said to the team that if you're listening, if anyone in Marvel Seuss is listening to um uh Lenore Zayn, any of the voice actors that tune into this at all, if anyone of you do, which thank you if you do, but congratulations. This is a banger of a season to start with. We are looking forward to every episode as the week drops, and I I can't wait to see what story you're gonna tell. I love by the way that's on the screen right now, this foreshadowing. He's looking, he sees the big apocalypse, and once the dust fades away, it's young apocalypse. And like, that is so cool. That's genius.

SPEAKER_02 28:48

That is so cool. By the way, I like Magneto with the beard. Bearded Magneto is awesome. Yeah, he's me's pretty cool. Yeah, but you're right. That is like it's I could see Tom playing this. Mm-hmm. Like just this, like, oh god. So why are they doing it here? Like, but it but like I said, at the same time, because they're doing it here makes me think, boys, they could do good later. Yeah. They pay attention and they know what they got. Maybe you'll maybe we'll be pleasantly surprised. Yeah. I guess it for us, I think it's more of how they get there than it is our problem. I don't know if I'm so much worried about the movies that they'll make with X-Men later as I am how they're gonna make the X-Men be exist. Yes. Does that make sense? Yeah, I agree. It's the path to it that bothers me more than the actual getting it later. Because if they were just already here, I think I would trust them with the movie already.

SPEAKER_00 29:42

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 29:42

Um, for the most part.

SPEAKER_00 29:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:44

But we're this mix, we'll get talking about it as we go with a couple of things we have on here.

SPEAKER_04 29:49

Yeah, totally. So, guys, the comment down below and let us know your thoughts on your first impressions of season two of X-Men 97. Did you like them? Did you not like them? What were the things that you would nitpick about them? And of these three episodes, which time period do you prefer? And do you like this? Probably your favorite so far. Let us know in the comments below. All right, I'll kick off our second topic for our multiverse minute, y'all. So, Spider-Man brand new day. We can't go a week without talking about it as we're leading up to now three weeks until it comes out.

SPEAKER_01 30:18

I'm excited.

SPEAKER_04 30:19

Like, oh, this the anticipation is high, guys. Anyways, um, like three to three to four weeks. Yeah, but by then, by the fourth week, Mark, we'll we'll be here probably talking to you about it, honestly.

SPEAKER_02 30:34

So, anyways, actually, yeah, you're right. That's wild.

SPEAKER_04 30:36

Yeah, because right now, timestamp this guys, it's July 3rd that we're recording this. You're probably seeing it though on Independence Day, July 4th or July 5th, because it takes us a day or two for editing, finalizing, all that stuff. And so, two, three, by the and the fourth week would be the last week of July. And we already decided because it comes out on a Friday and we're going to see it on the Friday, we're not going to record like we normally do on a Friday. We're going to wait till Saturday to record so we could talk to you about it while it's fresh and right before that review embargo lifts type thing. So we're all ready for when we want to.

SPEAKER_02 31:10

I'm to tell you to do this, to do this honest with this, I wouldn't mind if we go watch it with family like we did, and then you I just go again.

SPEAKER_04 31:18

Hey, I'm fine with that.

SPEAKER_02 31:19

Then we take notes while we're gonna do it.

SPEAKER_04 31:20

If we could if we could do that, and that there's any seats available. Oh, yeah, totally.

SPEAKER_02 31:24

Yeah, I just I just realized, guys, we do it throw Ragnarok next, and then it's infinity war.

SPEAKER_04 31:29

Right?

SPEAKER_02 31:30

Oh my god, what a so excited.

SPEAKER_04 31:33

All right, anyway, so Spider-Man brand new day. So there's some questions out there about the IMAX release, and there is a new poster, an IMAX poster, but the IMAX poster is in Japanese, there's no American IMAX poster, and there's a reason for that. I had to pull that up. Spider-Man brand new day will not be released in IMAX. Usually that would be a big scandal. Like, what the heck is going on? So I looked it up just to make sure we're all in the clear and we all know what's going on. This is primarily because Christopher Nolan's The Odyssey secured exclusive month-long hold on domestic IMAX screens during the Spidey release window. Yep. So there are other theaters, of course, you can see them in some of their premium stuff like the 4DX or the D-Box from Cinemark, you know, things like that.

SPEAKER_02 32:25

Probably and all that.

SPEAKER_04 32:26

Yeah. Screen X, I hear, is another one. Adobe Cinemas at AMC Theater. But uh only international markets, like Japan in particular, and other ones. Um, I guess even China and South Korea, it says here, will have a brand new day with the Odyssey. But for domestically in America, you're not gonna be able to see Spidey, at least for the opening weekend in Odyssey.

SPEAKER_02 32:50

I think it'll eventually hit some IMAX theaters, but yeah, right off the bat, no.

SPEAKER_04 32:54

Yeah, no, I and I get it because they've been hyping the Odyssey up for a long time. It's Christopher Nolan. Heck, they did the pre-sale of the tickets one exact year in advance, so they are already gearing up for this movie. So I don't I'm not surprised they made exclusive deals with IMAX. So that's part of the competition out there. It just means that for Spider-Man fans that want to see an IMAX, you may have to wait at least a week, if not longer. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:18

So yeah, so any thoughts on that any further? I have a few thoughts. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 33:25

Um yeah, it's okay. Guys, you'll see it in IMAX. You're just not gonna see it right away in IMAX. I this is controversial. I know this is a Marvel podcast, and we love these movies, but I fall on the side of the Odyssey here. Um, for two reasons. One, it's Christopher Nolan. Um, and for two, the Odyssey is completely filmed in IMAX. So the whole idea of the Odyssey and what he's doing with it is a re is a reinvention of how you're gonna watch this movie. So it would be almost why wouldn't IMAX commit to this because of the new camera and all that that they did? Yeah. So it's just he's just gonna have to deal with that, guys. And I there's a I don't know if you've heard, but there's a big backlash on the Odyssey right now. They're upset about certain characters and they're upset that Tom Holland calls his father and a dad at one point. They think that that kind of language for those kind of people is it doesn't make sense. I mean, I'm telling you right now, whatever all this bull crap is going on online that these people are doing backlash of this, you need to shut up. Because this is not, it's not a problem. This is not a problem. It's Christopher Nolan, guys. You guys are gonna lose. These movies are fantastic. For some reason, it's like cancel culture is looking for a new target, and it's him. It's I don't know why they're doing it, but this just this last couple days, there's been a lot of release of look what they're doing, and this and that. And it's guys, this is a fake story, it's not real. Like, it's a story based off of some maybe real events that have a lot of mystical things that go on in it. This is it is literally a fantasy movie. What are you doing? And you're not gonna win. It's gonna be the best movie of the year. I mean, it just is. Nolan, until Nolan makes a bad movie, I'm not gonna say it's bad. I have enough in me to know, or enough, I would put money down enough to anything he makes at this point is gonna be, yep, that's gonna be great. And you you can't name one bad Christopher Nolan movie to me. I'm sure there's different opinions, but if you think the movies are bad, you're wrong. So I'm just you know, I'm out there with it. I'm not gonna lie to you. These movies are genius. You know, Oppenheimer's not for everybody, but it's a great movie. You know, and not all these movies are for everybody, but they're great movies. The Odyssey, I cannot wait to see this movie. It looks phenomenal. So yeah, sorry, Spider-Man. But uh Spider-Man's gonna look great in IMAX. But Nolan, he he's one of those filmmakers like a James Cameron, where not only does he make a movie, but he does something new in the industry to help move it forward, which is why you'll never see Disney do well with their Infinity Vision. Because he's one of these, you got a director out there literally still making product for an IMAX, and it's never gonna be owned or beat by anybody else until Disney comes up with their own thing to make. Because you're just using a name to brand something when IMAX is building things to make better movies, you're not you're never gonna beat it until you do that. So you can get as greedy as you want, Disney, but you're not gonna get it, and you will lose out every time like this until you do that. You know, and it's not gonna hurt Spider-Man anyways. Oh, yeah. So overseas is gonna make it work, and then two weeks, maybe two weeks in at the most, it'll be on IMAX as well. And that also depends if the Odyssey, if you guys succeed at making the Odyssey get canceled, then you'll have it earlier. If you don't succeed at it, then you might have to wait two or three weeks because the Odyssey is gonna take a lot of seats. That's the only thing Spider-Man's got against it right now. Is I gotta be honest with you, if it was Spider-Man or the Odyssey, I'm doing Spider-Man because I'm doing the podcast. Not that I don't want to see Spider-Man that bad, but don't you don't don't get it wrong. The next weekend, I'm going to see the Odyssey, man. Like, you know what I mean? Like, or maybe even that same weekend. Maybe I'm gonna even do it as a double feature. Maybe we'll do it as a double feature, maybe for fun, because it's it's gonna be a great movie. And yeah, that until you start bringing something to the table for IMAX, they're always gonna side with the people that make their brand stand out. And Denis Villeneuve with Dune, Christopher Nolan with the stuff that he does, even James Cameron when he does some of these new things, they're always gonna go with that because that's they're gonna be see, this is why we're top dog. But that you're gonna be fine. Spider-Man's still gonna make a ton of money. So I think it's just inconsequential, but it is definitely it's interesting to see that. Oh, you know, and it's I because I'm sure it would look great in IMAX. But this movie just has you beat.

SPEAKER_04 38:11

Yeah, well, and one thing that this Spider-Man has that the previous Spider-Man didn't have was a China release. That's true.

SPEAKER_02 38:17

And uh because they don't like sorcerers over in China.

SPEAKER_04 38:20

Well, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:21

China or whatever they're yeah, no offense, I guess.

SPEAKER_04 38:25

Well uh great offense in my opinion, because I think they're not sure. Right, yeah, they do not have a problem with it. Yeah. Well, they didn't they didn't want Chang Chi, from my understanding, too. And that literally is an homage to past martial arts from China that did not make them a mockery at all, actually made them kind of cool again. Yeah. So that but that's their loss.

SPEAKER_02 38:51

So once again, happy birthday to the United States, because we'll watch all these movies.

SPEAKER_04 38:54

Amen. All right, yeah. So what do you guys think? Are you bummed it's not gonna be an IMAX opening weekend, or are you just like us and we're like, you're gonna get it eventually, probably sooner than later, type thing. Or what do you guys think? Do you think that this is um are we missing out? Are we not? Um comment below, let us know. I say make it a double feature like they did with Oppenheimer.

SPEAKER_02 39:14

I just don't have a good name for this one, Spider-Man Odyssey. Odd Spidey Spider C. No, that's weird. This sounds real bad. Anyways, Otter Man Seeds. Yeah, Odyssey Man. Odyssey Man. There you go. All right, guy. Uh Ike, I should say, why don't you take it off of our last topic? So this one here, guys, is a deep one. This one's gonna get some we might get heated, we might not. You're gonna see some emotions. Um, doomsday plot leak, guys. I mean, someone needs to call Plumber because if this is true, then the Disneys are they just they gotta work on keeping their people quiet. Um, John Campia. Sorry, we are gonna, we are this one one not one of the first times, but one time that we are taking some news from a fellow podcaster who we only are putting in the news because we do hold John that high in regard. Yep. That when he says stuff and he puts on his show, I've always trusted John Campia about what he talks about, what he says, and being honest with us. And I hope he hears us. I want him to know that we feel that way. Watch a show for a lot. I've no, I've watched him since he was an AMC. I always thought that his integrity with that is real good. And I trust him. Him and Rob both and the whole crew. Fantastic.

SPEAKER_04 40:28

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 40:28

So because John Campia did it, we're kind of doing this news based off of him. So, John, you made the news for us. So, John Campia of the John Campia show on YouTube has stated for months that he has had exclusive insight to the Avengers Doomsday film. He recently confirmed on his show that the full plot details have leaked online. And he did, he did say that it would eventually. Yeah, he did, and to his credit. Yeah, and he's been right about that before. So here's the question that we have how do we feel about that? And should we be spoiling ourselves? And Sammy and I will maybe we'll talk about this part of it first and then we'll talk about what we talked about last night. Yeah. Or we talked about it all at once, it doesn't matter. But it's it's interesting, you know, this whole how do you feel about leaks, Sammy? What all right? Well, yeah, what's your thoughts? What's your initial thoughts right off the bat, anyway?

SPEAKER_04 41:18

My my initial thoughts are I'm surprised. And this is I I want to make sure I took I articulate this and explain this coherently enough, and I'm not jumping all around the place. So bear with me, folks. Um, Marvel Studios is not known for full plot detail leaks. We've talked about this on the podcast before, that Sony has had a hard time here or there when it comes to like the trailers being prematurely leaked or characters being revealed that weren't supposed to be, things like that. And that that's a Sony issue. But also, Sony has had a long time of fighting against hackers where they their company for a lot of times, uh more than that could count from my understanding, always has some sort of cyber attack. And so there's always some leaked emails or leaked plot things or leaked theories or leaked movie details that were never supposed to be revealed to the public, and now they are. So, but that's a Sony thing. This is Marvel. Sony has nothing to do with Avengers Doomsday. This is completely Disney and Marvel Studios, and they are not known for having a leak, whether it's maybe a minor insight of a slip of the tongue of a certain character is one thing or a certain plot detail, but for the full-on plot of their biggest feature film that they're anticipating and been building towards for over almost two, almost two years now, they've been working on this thing. That surprises me. And that also makes me a little skeptical on if this is indeed the final cut of the film. Because as we know, films go through two or three rewrites in the midst of the process of filming. Sometimes scenes work, sometimes they don't work. It's the whole reason reshoots are in people's contracts for either re-editing purposes, taking out or putting in characters. Maybe deals didn't close at the time they wrote the script for certain characters, and they were like, We're never getting Halle Berry. She's too big for us now. Then all of a sudden, oh, she's returning. We have to redo the whole third plot. We have no idea. So I don't want to say that John is lying or Rob is lying that they saw the script. But I don't think, honestly, from my personal perspective, and I will hold to this until I see Doomsday and maybe see what this plot leak is if we decide to do that. Because that was one of our debates last night, guys. Is we're not even sure if we want to partake in this plot leak because we really don't want to spoil the movie for us, but at the same time, we want to kind of know. What's going on in the conversation?

SPEAKER_02 44:01

We also want to be relevant in this YouTube world because we've started this. Yes. So we don't want to be the guy who's not talking about it at the same time. That was also part of our conversation because we you viewers might be might want to hear it. And if you like listening to us, you want us to tell you. You know, but I don't know if we want to know.

SPEAKER_04 44:17

So that yeah, it's it's that fine line of uh do we do we spoil this if this is legit, or do we just see how it's gonna play out and then go from there? We're we're we kind of at a tug of war there. I think personally that this may be a true version of the script. I don't think it's the final draft. I think that they I don't I am surprised that someone on the inside, no offense, John, love you. As we said in the beginning of this, I watch you daily as well. I turn into your podcast, I even subscribe to your membership thing. Um I you're great. I love listening to you guys. Even if I think your opinions are a little wrong, that's my personal taste. That's not makes it fun. Yeah, that's not because I think you're a bad guy. So I digress there. Um, by the way, you recently showed a picture of your pool on your podcast. So nice. I love it. Yeah, it's beautiful. You got a great piece of property, sir. Congratulations. Anyways, so um besides that, I find it very suspicious that someone high up in Marvel Studios would allow someone like a John Campia to see this script. I get it, the people know people on the inside, but you're literally walking up to I know you're not a news reporter, John, but at the same time, you do report the news to a degree.

SPEAKER_02 45:42

Well, to us movie fans, you are news reporters.

SPEAKER_04 45:44

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 45:45

Yeah, right? Yeah. Whether you qualify that yourself or not. Yeah. He he John tends to downplay himself sometimes.

SPEAKER_00 45:53

Yeah, you're very highly respected.

SPEAKER_02 45:55

How important you are in a lot of podcasters, yes, and how serious we take your opinion of what you do in your show. Yes. Um, so I know you I know you very humble about it, but you do know. I know you know. Yeah. It's a big deal.

unknown 46:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 46:10

I just think this this is my my thoughts on this is I I'm surprised the Marvel would even do this that will allow someone like you who has a platform and a big following and are highly respected, that you would see the full details of their biggest movie. Maybe it's part of a publicity thing to help them hype it up. But also I'm I'm kind of shocked that John, you even said on your show, this is real, because it easily could have been real and you could have bit your tongue about it, and then no one else would have known and been very skeptical this whole time and just passed it as a rumor. And by the time we saw the movie, you would have forgotten about it because it's literally six to seven months from now. So it's there, it's it's a double-edged sword. You kind of confirmed it by if this is real, you've kind of helped with the spoilage of it. Whether you intended to do that or not, I don't know if you this is just your way of making news for your show. Congratulations. Everyone's talking about you a lot more so now. But was it worth it? If that's if it's real. So that that's my thoughts on it initially. And as far as actually seeing the plot details, we go through our room mill rundown whenever a certain thought about doomsday comes out, then we want to dissect that thought. We're gonna get into one in in a couple minutes with Magneto and Spider-Man's villains. That doesn't mean that that's the full movie. So we could talk about speculations, speculations, yes, but leaks that have at this point now, John, you've thrown your name behind it as validity to the leak. It's not just someone wrote this, posts it on Reddit, and now we're all running wild with it. This is something that you are now giving credit to this leak as real, which is either I I can't even say either very good or very bad. It's it's it's sad. My opinion. But anyways, that's that's just my initial thoughts on it.

SPEAKER_02 48:11

I have a slightly different take. We have a different take on this, which is good though. Um, I I don't know if it's so bad. What it what I agree with 100% that you're saying is is I think John is smart enough to know that some people are gonna take certain things seriously if it comes from him or not. And I think that something that's you're trying to point at, which I do understand you're saying, that it wouldn't have been on our show today if it wasn't on your show. I think that's kind of the point I'm making too, is you are enough, John is enough of an influencer in this medium, where if it's news on his show, it's something that we consider to talk about as well. Or it's something that we take as that's something that's real. He's not making this up. This wouldn't be in our minds. Whether it's the real plot leak or not, what you know of it, you're telling the truth about. Yeah. And we trust that part of it for sure.

SPEAKER_04 49:08

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 49:09

Um, so yeah, so when you do put it in here as this, it's almost like you have now kind of perpetuated this. Now, anyone that does go, so if I go watch this, oh, a day ago, here's a new plot leak, and they watch it, and you just got done saying all of them out there saying it's pretty much true right now, then it is spoiling that movie for them. But that's still their choice to click on. And that's true. I'm gonna give you that credit. You are 100% right when you say that. They can choose not to watch that stuff, and I completely agree.

SPEAKER_04 49:35

And I give him credit on his show for blurring out everything and not talking about it. So good for you on that.

SPEAKER_02 49:42

That's why I'm not ever gonna give him crap for talking about on a show because you don't have to pay attention to it. This is they've chosen to do it. John can get on there and talk about fluffy kittens all day if he wants, it's his show, and we will try and we'll trust you on what you say about the kittens, but because you have been very trustworthy. I think, and I I the point I want to kind of talk about that we differ a little bit about is I don't know if Marvel's necessarily not known for plot leaks. I will say this they're not known for plot leaks this far out of a movie. I think when you get close to these dates, like I think right now, I well, I've actually I didn't watch them, but just for a point, I went on and looked at Spider-Man No Way Home or uh brand new day plot leaks. And there's as of like 16 hours ago, there's a new one. And it and then there and there's tons of them. Now, whether they're real or not is the question, right? And that's where that line is blurred here when it's on your show about the one that you said is real because it matches the stuff you guys read. But I think that some of these can be real because I have for other movies that I haven't really cared about, but I'll be honest with you, it's a couple of the Godzilla movies that come out I wasn't gonna get a chance to go see, and I just wanted to know what was gonna happen. And some of those plot leaks were out a month and they were exact dead on. Now, what I will say about plot leaks, though, for the most part, and I think John touched on this a little bit in the show, somewhat uh Rob Beh said it. By the way, Rob, we trust you was very much as well. Oh, but I also think that if you and I did decide to dive into this, it's gonna be more of a bullet point of the story, and a lot of the nuances of the little things aren't gonna be there. So it's I don't think this plot leak probably has this person versus this person, or how this person dies, or even down to like a detail of a specific detail of why something's a certain way. I think it's gonna be it's here's how the opening of the movie there's a battle here, these characters meet, there's a battle here, and this is how it ends.

SPEAKER_04 51:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 51:51

And I'm sure there's some spoilerage there, but I bet there's a lot of stuff in the middle that's just like you didn't see that coming, you know. And I and I think and I think they touched upon this where the nuance of the characters and the dialogue and how they do the things is definitely a surprise. The only thing I'll ever say to you and Rob that I disagree about when you talk about this kind of stuff is yeah, you guys are excited to see the movie, even though you know what's gonna happen in the movie. Because for you, it's like I just can't wait to see how they're gonna do it. I'm still the I still think that I'm gonna call bullshit on that. Not for you guys and how you feel, because you're I'm not saying you're lying to us, but I don't. I personally like it when there's if I know that Iron Man's gonna die at the end of Infinity War, spoiler alert, if you haven't seen it where you've been. Um not Infinity War, but close to it. Or yeah, I'm sorry. Uh Endgame. See that to confirm the spoiler. Just kidding. Wrong. Yeah, but if I knew that Iron Man was gonna die at the end of um Endgame, sure. In the in the spoiler thing, it might not have said that he says I am Iron Man, which makes that scene even cooler. But it definitely would have taken away the feeling of him dying. Because now you're anticipating it. Yes. So yeah, is it cool to know that Doom is probably gonna bring Sentinels to life? I'm just I'm just bringing up one that we've heard about and talked about. He's gonna bring Sentinels up to life and they're gonna fight the X-Men? Sure. Do I really want to know that if it happens? No, because you know, in the theater, when it goes to happen, holy moly, how cool would that be? Because you can't, hey, spoiler alert, Captain America's gonna wield Munomir. Yeah, they don't tell you how and what he does with it, and that's what makes it cool.

SPEAKER_04 53:40

But now you know it's gonna happen.

SPEAKER_02 53:41

That moment when he hasn't, you don't know it's gonna happen. It's so awesome, man. And like and it's meaningful. And it so I I do like certain ones I like going into movies without spoilers. Certain movies, I could I'm okay with it knowing it all depends on my hype for it. So also the thing I want to touch on is I don't think it's that uncommon for them to share this stuff with in abundance and stuff stuff like that, especially if like John or Rob do have a connection to somebody that knows things and they're trustworthy to not spoil it, yeah, then they're gonna let them read. I think it happens more than you think. And I actually I think with John it's even a safer bet because he made that mistake of showing pictures of Spider-Man stuff before, and then telling us, oh man, I thought it was fake and it wasn't, and he came right out and apologized. I think that if anything, in a way, it's almost like here, read the script so that when you do see some of these rumors coming, you know which ones not to talk about. Yeah, I mean, I'm not saying they do that 100%. I'm not saying they're that deep in. But if you do, if you know someone's gonna find out because they're deep enough and they have connections and they don't mean to spoil your movie, I would I would sit with someone that was a serious news reporter, like I take a John when it comes to movies, and say, you know, that the Spider-Man debacle were not mad at you because clearly you didn't do it on purpose. Yeah, you took it back. So tell you what, we're gonna offer you this. You know, you want to read the script this first of all. We know the person you're connected to, you're gonna find this out anyways, probably early, or have the opportunity to. So, with that, maybe now when you know it's happening, you know, talk about you. So when you do get a picture, don't show that picture because you know what's coming. Yeah. And that and I think that that's and that actually would help John in that sense. Because you said he had stuff blurred out and he made sure, you know, that he made, you know. I I still think we're jumping the gun too fast, is my thing. I but I do think that that happens more than you think. I do, I do. Um, but I think it just depends on who's reporting it. When you look at the ones that you don't pay attention to that much, it is those guys that are just clickbait. I'm gonna give you all these spoiler things. I don't watch those guys. I'm sure there's enough of them who are nice guys and they're fun, but I don't watch them. I would like how John does it, like him to keep as much of it away from me as he can or give me for a warning if he's gonna talk about it, like he has. And I think he's done a good job with that. Now the question comes is do we do this and we jump on board? And some of my personal thoughts about it is uh we you and I still haven't quite decided, right? But I think one thing we did decide on is we're gonna wait and see what the backlash of what this is. Yes, not necessarily just because of what John said, but in general of the leaks being out.

SPEAKER_04 56:32

If someone like uh Joe or Anthony Russo comes out and says, we see what's circulating online, yeah, that while that's a cool script, and maybe it's all a part of our thought process would be that's not what you're seeing. If you get someone high enough, high up enough to debunk it, then we will do a full deep dive in one of our room mill rundowns on the whole thing. But until then, I'm very hesitant because I if you laid out a couple great examples of Iron Man and doing the snap and all that stuff. Had the excitement that I had when I went into X-Men Apocalypse and then Gene turned into the Phoenix and killed Apocalypse. If I had read that before, the whole movie, all I would have been thinking is when we gonna get it? When we gonna get it. I loved going into that movie. The emotional way was there. The emotional way. I literally was crying in the theater seat when she was when he said Gene let go and she did that flare, tears literally were coming out of my eyes because of how passionate I was to see that and how I literally, as we're walking into the theater for apocalypse, I said to him, The X-Men can't destroy Apocalypse. If they end this movie with Xavier or Storm or Cyclops or Beast um killing Apocalypse, no, it's gonna be a bad movie because it's apocalypse. They ended it the only way I told you they could end it, and they did. And I that's all is revealed. Oh, yeah, all is revealed. So that's that's part of me is like as soon as Xavier says I'm not alone. I'm like, oh, and she walks in the camera and be like, Gene, let go, and like, oh my gosh, guys, I have goosebumps just talking about this. So that's why I'm saying for this movie, if they're trying to give that same type of feels for you, as it sounds like they want to. Do I want to know what's gonna happen? Because I want to go into the theater on December 15th, be one of the first people there to see this movie and be like, oh my gosh, Halle Berry really is there.

SPEAKER_02 58:39

I think we tread the line real well of like in our rumor mill rundown, yes, of well, here's a possible scene that we're gonna be talking about one today with Magneto. So could that possibly be a spoiler? Yes, it could. And it and we're in, but we're not contradicting ourselves by telling you we want to do a full plot leak. Yeah. Some of these things we are very careful about that kind of concept of it, right? Because I think I think we could sit down today for five hours and come up with a whole different ways of how they're gonna do this, and I think we've land on some of it being right. And and it's just because there's only so many ways you can do what you're doing, right? Yeah. So personally, like you you said it perfect, until it's from official sources, like not that John's not official, but in my mind it's trustworthy. Yeah. I'm talking about the source of the creators of it, whether it's Marvel, um, whether it's Disney, uh, you know, any of the leaders in Disney or the Russos or Feige, you know, or a writer, you know what I mean? Even then, depending on where they say it and who to, um, until they say something that's worth newsworthy that is there, then that's when we need to make a decision if we're gonna jump into it or not.

unknown 59:54

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 59:54

And I gotta be frank with you. I'm not sure if I want to spoil it for myself.

SPEAKER_04 59:57

So sorry, guys, if you were anticipating when you saw this on the thumbnail that we're gonna talk about the full leak, we're talking about the fact that it happened and what we should do about it. We're not talking about the details of what it is. We'll talk about small little rumored leaks, like we're gonna next, but we're not going to talk about a full plot leak in this movie. Yeah. At least not right now. Like, like my brother said, if someone comes out and says, that's cool, that's not what we did. Or if any of the trailers, when they get released, start contradicting what people then we hear from people that say, Well, we were at the plot leak, but that wasn't the trailer. That wasn't a part of Prot leak at all. Be like, okay, you're kind of debunking it in the midst of doing that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:42

So before you throw shade at us, like, oh yeah, but you talked about the trailer that is Simicon, and technically that's a leak. That's a trailer officially sent out by Marvel to people to see. Yes. That's different. We're gonna get the same damn thing, guys. We're all gonna see that.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:55

Well, they saw there, we will see eventually.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:58

So that's nothing that that's not uh, I guess, is that the definition of a leak? Sure. Because if this is true, then we'll see it eventually, right? When they no, they released they released it. That's the point. That's the point. When they officially released something, yeah, on the set, giving you a script. Yes, which it still could be very true, but I want to hear it from the boss. You know what I mean? Like, and then and so no offense to John and them. I do feel like, yeah, I think you guys talking about it gave it a little too much fire. Mm-hmm. And that's that's the thing about hey, hey, that's that's the world we live in on YouTube these days.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:31

And that's the thing about when they do these trailers, even for Cinemart or Cinemart, CinemaCon, Cinnabon, when they release a trailer like that, they already have released the trailer knowing other people are gonna see it. So they're not doing plot leaks in their own trailer.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:43

They encourage them to write about it. They actually want them to.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:46

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:47

And everyone, the moment they got their phones back out, was doing live streams of oh, I saw this, oh, I saw that. That's not leaks because they showed them official footage.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:57

It's actually promotion, is what you're actually, yes, it is.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:00

That's the whole point of that whole convention thing was to promote their movie, and this is how big it's gonna be. Now everyone for the next two or three weeks are gonna talk about this one thing of your whole thing.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:10

Yeah. So, anyways, guys.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:11

Yeah, I think we spend enough time on it.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:13

Guys, like I said, if it does come out and they say it is kind of legit or it's not legit and stuff, Sammy and I will still have to make that decision and I'm still on the fence. Yeah, a lot of it is do we want to spoil it for ourselves, but we also want to be up to date on our show. So we'll see where I think the measure of it is the response to Marvel to what this is. Yeah. Yeah, I agree. They're gonna respond. There's gonna be some sort of there has to be.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:35

If this if this is catching the wildfire that already is right now online, you you're gonna hear it from someone it in one way or the other. So I think that's I really do think like for the Sony thing, when that second trailer for Spider-Man leaked and they weren't so quick to take it down, it's because within a matter of less than a week that was gonna be out anyways. Yes. So this movie has six months and they're starting reshoots in three weeks of this movie. That that script could be entirely different than what that plot leak is. That plot leak, by the way, guys, is one page. The script for a movie is 200 plus pages.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:14

There's no nuance in it, definitely.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:16

So it's like at the same time, is this spoiler? Is this it's spoiler enough because now you get an outline of the movie, if that's even what they're sticking with. Again, we don't know. Until I hear from someone more higher up that says, sorry, you guys got spoiled by it, then we know that's real. Or something else, I I don't really want to touch it too much. Yeah, we'll touch upon the little things like we're gonna do with the magneto thing in a moment, but that's that's one thing that's speculation that sounds really cool, and maybe an insider did hear about it, and maybe that is in the script. We don't know. Yeah, but in no matter what's not the plot, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:03:53

And no matter how we feel about spoilers, I will echo something John said that I definitely agree with 100%. In the long run, it's up to you to not be spoiled. Yep. So I'm not gonna condemn anybody for anything that they do, decide to do, or talk about or how they do it. They want to go ahead and go out there and just say the whole thing or however they do it. That's fine because I'm the one that needs to choose to watch it or not. So John is right about that. So I'm not that's why I'm not throwing any shade, not saying anyone's done anything wrong. You know, it's not my I don't think it's that classy to be a little guy that does the I wouldn't want to be running a show that does nothing but leaks like that. Uh, you know, but at the same time, hey, you guys run shows, you you're popular, you're doing your thing, it's your job. I I just don't watch it because for me, I like being it's you know, I like it in the moment. Yes, you know what I mean. That's how these movies are supposed to be. If you knew how that ended, that doesn't change how good the movie is, but it would have made that ending not as, you know, oh, I can't wait to see what's happening, right? And it's just little things like that. I mean, F1's a little kind of a bad example, but you know, yeah, or like apocalypse, yeah. Or any of it, right?

SPEAKER_04 1:05:00

Any of them, yeah. Yeah. All right. So, guys, question is for you. Have you already seen the plot leak? Have you read it? Have you been dissecting it the whole time? Cool. I'm sorry if we didn't know.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:10

Tell us in the comments.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:11

No, right? He's the last one. Anyways, um yeah, it's just it just ends with a magneto was there alone. The end.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:22

We get to the theater and it comes up Avengers instead of doomsday, it's Magneto Day.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:26

Like, yeah, what the what's going on? Yeah, so please don't do any spoilage on the the comments to just saying if you do, you do. But I'm just saying for those of you who don't want to read about it and you do like our show, just do that on another channel's uh comments. Either way, guys, because we do read your comments too, by the way. So please do comment, please subscribe, all that fun stuff. But let us know what your thoughts are on this down below. All right. Next up, guys, we are heading into our rumor mill rundown, and I am very excited for a couple of these. In particular. So let's just get right onto it. All right, guys, it's rumor time. We are on the rummill rundown of the Godell Multiverse podcast. Thank you for staying with us. If you are just listening to us, by the way, on the audio version, we do have a YouTube version on our YouTube page. I should say video version on our YouTube page. Either way, you get the gist. We got video and audio. So please go like, subscribe, check it out. And also, if you can't listen to the full thing, we have as bite-sized pieces of segments on our YouTube page. So if you're here just because you want to hear rumors and that's all you listen to, welcome aboard. Here we go. We're going to start off with our first one. And I will I will kick it off with Magneto versus Spider-Man villains. What? What the heck? Huh? Who thought we would ever say that sentence?

SPEAKER_02 1:06:53

Does he kill him?

SPEAKER_04 1:06:54

Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Because I don't, I feel like that's not the question of who wins. No, it's just how long is it gonna be? Honestly. So, early script rumors, primarily from insider Daniel RPK, suggest that Avengers Doomsday will kick off a massive multiverse level event, such as an incursion between different universes, including the X-Men's reality and Toby Maguire's Spider-Man Earth. The rumor indicates that amidst the multiversal chaos, Eric Lanscher, also known as Magneto, will cross paths and fight the iconic villains of Toby Maguire's Spider-Man films, including Green Goblin and Doc Ock. Wow. So, Ike, what do you think of this rumor? And how long do you think it's gonna take Magneto to strip these guys?

SPEAKER_02 1:07:49

I think he might listen to what they got to say and then use whatever they're wearing to kill them. Yeah, right. Like so he's just gonna he's just gonna crush Green Goblin. You're done. Because he's got a whole metal suit. And Doc Ock is wearing ropes that's gonna hang him. So it's like he's wearing metal things. I mean, I it would be cool to see, but guys, let's be honest, it's kind of unfair. I mean, I think that's that's one thing I will say going into Doomsday with Magneto, is they gotta do some real cool shit with him because he's bad, he's hardcore. Magneto's hardcore. What we like about the old X-Men movies, even with them doing the younger versions of them, is at each movie it's like he progressively gets stronger. And then, of course, when you get to apocalypse, even Apocalypse is like, I don't even need to unleash you. No, you're already there. Yeah, you just need to figure it out. Yeah. And and so he talks him through it. And it's like, and here he is moving metal on you can literally change what the planet does if he wants to in the long run. Yeah. So it's like these these Spider-Man villains don't have a chance, man. Like, don't get me wrong, it'd be great to see these guys again. I mean, Willem Dafoe, arguably one of the best villains in history when it comes down to comic book villains.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:14

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:15

And he's top three in the MCU, and he's not even from the MCU.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:19

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:22

But that's coming, guys.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:23

So good.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:23

And the little time he's in in that Spider-Man movie is what? You know what I mean? Like, it's so good. So, like, and Doc Ock, he's a favorite, right? He don't he doesn't speak to me as much as everybody else, but he's great. He's a big fan favorite. Spider-Man 2 is always renowned as a great movie. Yeah. But they, what are they gonna do with Magneto? Yeah, right. I mean, Doom's gonna have a hard time with Magneto. Yes. If it's not for magic, I don't know what he's gonna do. Like that that that's kind of where I am wondering when it does come down to Magneto and Xavier. You're talking the two high most high-powered mutants to exist. Yep. And I get they gotta die. I get there's gotta be an end. And and I hope the incursion's the reason. Because I can't see a single person beating him. No, you know, yeah, like Wolverine beats almost everybody, but he can never touch Magneto. Even in movies where, like, even when you get to Days of Future Pass and Wolverine drops the bone claws, and it's yeah, well, you don't have the medal yet, he still F's Wolverine up. Yes, it's like a chance. Like it's getting you out of the picture. It's whatever, I'll just use these things to clear it. Get out of here. And it's like, okay, you know, it's like with that helmet on and with his ability and how strong he is, you could tote you could put Thanos against Magneto in it. I think Magneto would come out on top.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:49

Yeah, and and I I don't think we're over-exaggerating, guys. He is that powerful, and this is this is uh aged Magneto. This is one who's been through some stuff, been through it. Yeah, you see all the movies of him in it and all the stuff that he can do, and now you put him against, like you just said, Green Goblin. Even if he wears the same outfit he wore on No Way Home, which was less of the suit, he's flying a metal yeah, a metal jet thing. He just crushes that up and he's gone. It's like the Doc Ock literally has robotic tentacles coming out of his back. Yeah, just squeeze him like an anaconda, and he's dead. Like there's their deaths are I don't want to say they're meaningless, they're quick. Yeah, there's no there's not much of a fight to put up there. It may be cool if you want to extend the scene for like a full 60 seconds, but you go longer than that, it's kind of like Magnino just end them already because that's what he's gonna do.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:52

Yeah, unless they're not fighting to the death, yeah. It's still gonna be one-sided. Oh, it's just gonna be them trying to hurt him.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:01

He's just gonna know. Yeah, I can't I can't picture anything that Doc Ock or Norman Osborne can do that would supersede anything of what Magneto can do on his weakest performance day. Unless oh boy.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:17

Unless they do the thing that we hope they don't do. And you know where I'm going with this.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:24

And Magneto's old, maybe he's not as powerful anymore.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:27

They depower him like in the X-Men 3 style. Yep. I'd be so pissed.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:34

I'd be so pissed. I will yes. Because see, that's one of the things that we're talking about going into Doomsday, is we want to see these if we're gonna give a goodbye to these X-Men that we all know and love, they have to go out in the banger. And if you start off the movie with a depowered magneto, I'd rather see him die at the hands of Doom because of magic.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:00

Yes. Than him be depowered.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:03

I'd rather have an incursion happen and he dies with the incursion than to have that's the best one.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:10

Second best is let Doom use magic to screw him up. Because then at least you got this, whatever this is. Yeah. Showing the might of Doom. And then it just show how formidable he's going to be. That'd be if you're gonna kill anybody to show how strong Doom's gonna be. Magneto's the one. Oh. You know, and especially if he uses magic that we can get around this whole metal thing and all that. But if you're just you're just talking Spider-Man's villains, yeah. No contest. Don't do this. I mean, and you know what, and if you do do it, I wonder what it's gonna look like and what it means. And it's good, it would be interesting to see these villains being good guys, because now with the timeline, how what happened with Spider-Man, they're not bad guys anymore, probably. Actually, I don't know how Norman's gonna be in it. That's the one that makes me think this is bullshit. This is part of my French, because from what I understand, if he goes back to where he was from the Spider-Man movie, yeah, he was given an injection, so now he's just a guy.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:03

He yeah, he doesn't have that dual personality anymore.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:06

He's just a guy.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:07

And it was that dual personality that was ambitious enough to do those crazy things that Goblin was doing.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:11

Or or the physical stuff too. Yeah, yes. Now he's just a guy.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:14

Yes, that's right. Physical show.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:16

So why is he here?

SPEAKER_02 1:14:19

So it kind of makes me think maybe this is all this is someone thinks this would be cool, and they just haven't thought it through. Yep. I doubt this is in this movie at all. I I completely agree. Honestly. First of all, it's a bad team up, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:14:31

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:32

Yeah, Magneto wins. Even now you can give Magneto cancer and he still wins.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:36

Like, it's it's one thing if we start this movie off and it is an incursion between the X-Men universe and Spider-Man, and obviously the X-Men are they they're trying to survive and they're gonna destroy the Spider-Man universe. I get that. Fully understand. Great epic moment. Great idea. It's one thing if the X-Men are being hindered by Spider-Man villains, and Magneto comes floating down and decides, no, we're not gonna play games. This is serious, our world's gonna die. So then he destroys them. So I don't that's the only way in my brain I can think of, oh, they could do this, but it's not gonna be the way you guys think. It's not gonna be an epic fight between Goblin and uh Magneto or Doc Ock and Magneto. It's gonna be Magneto saying, We're done playing games, turn this bomb on, we're going. You know, it's it's simple as that. But without retconning what happened to Norman, yeah, he's not gonna be there anymore. That yeah, I agree with that too. Well, they did in no way home. Great ending for him in the nice Spider-Man ending touch, but that just means we're not getting that Willem Dafoe Green Goblin like that again. It it's one thing if he makes a cameo as Norman Osborne, he's not gonna be flying a glider. He's not gonna be like we like him in, because he's just not that anymore.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:53

Yeah, which I'm fine with.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:54

Doc Ox, another thing. He was still fighting even after that. But he just was good.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:58

He just gained control of his arm.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:00

That was the thing. Yeah, that's the only thing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:02

Because they weren't controlling his mind anymore, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:04

Yes, but the goblin part, I agree. I I would love to bullshit. Yeah, I agree. I would love to see goblin again, but I don't think they're ever gonna do it again because they gave him a perfect ending. Why ruin a perfect ending? But then again, they bring Steve back. We don't know, guys.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:19

So, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:20

Question is for you guys. What do you think of this rumor?

SPEAKER_02 1:16:22

Do you how fast is Magneto kill?

SPEAKER_04 1:16:24

Yeah, how fast has Magneto squashed these these bugs, these insects, as he would describe normal mortal people.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:30

You wouldn't have to look at them. You realize that? He'd be talking to somebody else and just stop, dude, just do this. Done. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:37

Anyways, it's so simple. Anyways, guys, what do you think? Let us know in the comments below. All right, I take it away for the next one.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:44

All right, guys, we're gonna talk about Carl today. If you guys don't know who Carl is, I like Carl. Carl's a complicated man. Carl has definitely has principles that he holds very dear and tight to his chest. And Carl will not back away from his principles. Carl's a guy to help you if it's right, and he's there for in the end with you. But ultimately, his principles might even force Carl to be a bad guy. I hope you all know who I'm talking about. I love that his name is Carl's real name.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:15

Like menacing.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:17

Carl. Anyway. So the recent insight reports and industry leaks strongly suggests that Chivitel Elgifore, I know I butchered it. Chiwetel. Yeah, Chiwetel, Carl, uh, will reprise his role as Carl, Baron Mordo, in Avengers Doomsday. While plot surfaces are kept tightly under wraps, speculation hints that Mordo could play a key role related to sorcery or tracking the film's antagonist, Doctor Doom. Rumors of his involvement initially sparked when Aegidafor gave a cryptic and playful response. We'll see. Who wouldn't like a chair? Okay, guy. This is like someone needs to say, we told you to lie. Um, during a red carpet interview, when asked about an Avengers Doomsday appearance. The mainline Earth 616 Baron Morto was last seen vowing to rid the world of rogue sorcerers in the post-credit scene of 2016's Doctor Strange. So my first official reaction is about time we get this guy back, because the next time we got him back was in Doctor Strange's Multiverse of Madness, and it was dumb. And it was a variant of him, so it wasn't the same. It wasn't even him. Um, and the other thing is I think it's a perfect spot for him is being a sorcerer, helping him do whatever he's doing.

unknown 1:18:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:38

All right. I I, you know, I kind of I like this idea of finding him because he is tracking sorcerers and he knows there's a new sorcerer in town. And so he probably has a spell or a way with Wong to track him. A way of, you know, the the enemy of my enemy is my friend type thing. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 1:19:02

So you can help the good guys find. Yeah, I think Doctor, we're gonna find Doctor Strange on a weird side of this whole thing.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:08

Yes. I agree. I think how meta would this be, and I kind of like that this rumor is in our rumor rundown because we've kind of danced around another rumor that's out there. The Doom has a squad of sorcerers and witches that are helping him with his events, whatever they may be. That's one of the biggest rumors out there is that that's where you're gonna see the Wanda variants. That's where you're gonna see Doctor Strange and Clea. Um, I don't think Baron Moto is gonna be part of this. If anything, why I say this is kind of meta. It'll be interesting how the tables would have turned that there is a a villainous Strange working with Doom. Maybe because Strange sees a bigger picture, like he sees in Zivinity Wards, why he gave the stone away, be like, what the heck, man? But now you see why. Maybe he sees another bigger picture of I have to help Doom in order to finally rid this MCU of the multiverse. So I get it. Maybe he has noble intentions, but it would be kind of interesting to see Baron Mortal teaming with the good guys just to track them down and try to stop them. So he still is a bad guy, Mordo, because he wants to kill sorcerers, but at least he's targeting what you need in a situation. Yeah, yeah, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:20:24

So lead in that way too.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:26

Yeah, so I I dare I say I endorse this rumor. I kind of hope we do see it. Just even if it's not a huge part, but it's enough of a part to say, hey, we need to figure out what some sorcery crap that's going on. Wong has his antennas up and knows something something's wrong. So we're gonna get the one guy who's been doing nothing since 2016 but looking for sorcerers.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:49

You know, I'll even take it a step farther. I agree with you 100%. I also think something that the MCU, I'm gonna call you out. If you guys got the balls to do this, I you wouldn't, I mean, you'd have one happy guy seeing someone to go this direction. If it were me, I when it comes on to Doctor Strange in this situation, being on Doom's side, I would simply do it because he just is.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:19

He just is on Doom's side? Yes. What a unique idea to take this boring ass character we have right now and just heel turn him.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:31

And just be like, yeah, it's all about survival. And this guy happens to be right. It does make it's not that he's being forced, it's not that there's a spell, it's that he just agrees with him.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:42

It's actually complimentary to the character assassination that they did in Doctor Strange Multiverse of Madness.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:48

Because that could make a unique Dalton, like moving forward, you could have fun with the fact that people are gonna trust this guy and that maybe they shouldn't. And you could actually could have a new anti-hero who's a good guy and a bad guy when he chooses to be. And that might revitalize this feeling that I have about Doctor Strange, which is boring. You know, it's like, yeah, because his solo movies are not gonna happen for me anymore. They the first one's borderline boring. You know, we gave it a decent score, but it's it's boring. I mean, I'm not gonna want if I never see that again in my life, I'll be okay. It's and that's kind of the point, right?

SPEAKER_04 1:22:28

Yeah, I think I know I know I said this on that podcast for Doctor Strange. That was that was a podcast ago or two podcasts ago, guys. So go check it out. The first Doctor Strange movie is the only appearance of him I like because he has a complete arc in that story. He starts as off as arrogance, yep, and he ends as I'm taking on a leadership role and I need to be serious about it. And I like that. It's the only time, the only time. I like his role in Infinity War. It's it's but it's got to do with anything about building his character. That yeah, that's the thing. Yeah, it's just he's just that's why he's better. He's better in like in the Spider-Man No Way Home. He's better in other people's movies, but then when you got to Multiverse of Madness, it was a complete 180 on the character growth that he had from his first movie up until then, just like with Wanda, care complete 180 on what the character growth for her. It's one reason why that movie kind of sucked, honestly. Um, but anyways, we'll get there. Um, yeah, I completely agree with you. I think that will make Doctor Strange more interesting, and I would be a little more anticipating of a potential third Doctor Strange movie if we get it. Because I'm sure they're gonna do it. It's just a matter of when and how is it gonna be?

SPEAKER_02 1:23:41

It'd just be new, right? We she could just be bad to be bad. Do it. And it's not like he's doing it to do bad things, he just so happens to be like this guy okay, Doctor Doom might be destroying worlds, but when it comes down to our survival, this might be the only way to do it. I mean, Doctor Strange did let half of everybody die. Or, you know, basically to get to that same point. You can look at that as almost that, but not, you know, he wasn't on the house's side, but he allowed a terrible thing to happen for a better thing to happen later. And I'm not saying that I would use this example this time to do that same thing, but I could see him just being, I just think you're wrong. And he's right, and I'm not gonna let you in. Simple. Yeah. And just be like, oh, shit. And just let it be that, right? Like, hell, even kill him. No, I'm kidding. Um now I'm stepping. But I'm just saying, I think it'd be if you did a heel turn with that character, not only will you show everybody that we can do this with people, and we're gonna revitalize him, because frankly, you all gotta know he's boring.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:52

I don't know if they'll be that daring to try to make him a bad guy, though. I get it, he has the tendencies for it. So uh, and that was actually definitely explored in Multiverse of Madness. He has tendencies of being bad. That's why Xavier, uh he's one of them that said that's strange that they had had to go, because even though he did help them in the end, he did bad things to do it. And so that that makes me think, okay, if they take that same character model of him from Multiverse of Madness to put him into Doomsday and Secret Wars like that, you can easily see him being a bad guy, but maybe he is also the one that would remember things and help fix it. Who knows?

SPEAKER_02 1:25:33

Yeah, see to me that'd be just that would be rinse and repeat. Like Morgan said yesterday. Didn't I do that already? So if you're gonna do it where he is a heel turn, I would prefer it to just be let it be that character's choice. Be more daring. Because that would be like that, it would be something to really chew on, right? Like you'd be like, whoa, again, because uh isn't that kind of why we like Loki choosing to be good? You know, it's not the circumstantials, it's like that he actually chooses to be good.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:01

So like I think that do the reverse of that, right? Where I want to see Loki be an Avenger, how crazy would that be? And which is cool, but to be an official Avenger, like accepted by them would be unique, right? And we might get a taste of that in these two movies, especially by Secret Wars. Because he's gonna be on the same side of fixing everything if if it comes down to it.

SPEAKER_04 1:26:23

Yeah, if he's still alive after this doomsday movie, we don't know. That's that's that's it'll be it'll be cool. It'll be interesting to see. All right, guys, what are your thoughts on Carl joining Doomsday?

SPEAKER_00 1:26:35

Carl.

SPEAKER_04 1:26:35

Do you think that um Mr. Chewedle is lying or telling the truth or being cryptic about actually being in this movie? Do you think that if he is in the movie, he's gonna be more on the side of good, or do you think he's one of those secret sorcerers behind Doctor Strange, or I'm sorry, Dr. Doom doing nefarious stuff? Let us know in the comments below.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:58

I think he told us he's in it. Maybe you know what? He might not even be in this one. He might be at Secret Wars. It might not be the right rumor for the right movie, but that's true. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:27:08

Yeah. Who knows? Really, guys, who who I because correct me if I'm wrong. Are they already filming Secret Wars right now and then they're doing back-to-back doomsday reshoots in August?

SPEAKER_02 1:27:19

They may have not officially announced they're actually doing Secret Wars, but don't I'm telling you right now, I would bet whatever's in my pocket right now, I don't even know, Lint. But I would bet, I would bet money that they are filming scenes now or have filmed scenes during Doomsday that they plan to use later. Oh, because it's gonna you gotta talk scheduling wise for sure. Oh you know you're doing these two. So, hey, while we got you, let's just do this for three days and then we'll bank that here, and then later we'll do our magic and put it all together. Yep. Yeah, so I mean, if you're when uh when it comes to the. Down to like film dates of when they actually start filming Doomsday and Secret Wars. As soon as they start filming Doomsday, to me, they're filming both of them.

unknown 1:28:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:28:07

We just don't know what and from my understanding. If and correct me if I'm wrong in the comments below, they were filming um Endgame while they're doing Infinity War. Oh, yeah. And that that's one of the reasons why a lot of the actors didn't know what scenes are where, if they even made it. I that's one thing I love about these type of movies is the Rooster brothers keep everyone in the dark for this. Tom Holland gets a whole new script for it. Like it's the whole thing to be like, no one really knows what's going on. That's what makes me a little skeptical of this plot leak. But, anyways, we're on the rumor mill rundown, guys. We're gonna join into or join in, we're gonna segue into our next topic here. Our last topic on the rumor mill rundown, Marvel phase seven. The slate has apparently leaked. Rumor has it. Now, this is not a confirmed leak, this is a rumor, but these are fun to speculate on if these have any validity to them or basically just what we think of them. So, insider, industry insider Alex Perez states he has heard inside reports of at least nine feature films in active development at Marvel Studios. So I took the liberty of listening to a couple of these breakdowns of these films and reading what Alex Perez specifically said, and wrote up a little uh one pager here on all nine rumored projects, and we're gonna talk about them. How do you want to do it? Like, do you want me to just read all of them, then we go one by one, or do you want to just read one, talk about it, read two, talk about it?

SPEAKER_02 1:29:42

Yeah, let's talk about it as we go. Talk about as we go.

SPEAKER_04 1:29:45

Okay. All right. So let's start off with the first one that's discussed. Doctor Strange Three. So, rumor has it. Uh, Doctor Strange Three was actually gonna be released by now, either before the Kang Dynasty movie or between Kang Dynasty and Secret Wars, back when Jonathan Majors was gonna be your MCU Big Bad. And after all that change to Doctor Doom, pivoting over to Doomsday and Secret Wars, uh, it's reported that Doctor Strange 3 is on the back burner, but still in act of development with Ben Decumberbatch attached to it, of course, still. Yeah. Um, that is the most we got of that film. So it is still in development. It's just not one of those films we're gonna get secretly, according to this rumor, between Doomsday and Secret Wars, it's probably gonna be one of their first films after it. So, what are your thoughts on this?

SPEAKER_02 1:30:42

So, this is uh if this is like once again, guys, it's all rumors, so it's all speculation. I'm just gonna I'm just gonna pretend it's true. Yep. Um, if this is true, then it proves even more so that they it's all damage control, right? And um, if it's also true, this this is a great way in making it after doomsday instead of before because you have to change what you're doing. Do this, do the idea that we just talked about. Do the heel turn on Doctor Strange so that we can do a cool Doctor Strange movie. Because to be honest with you, it I don't care about Doctor Strange having I think it's a mistake unless you have a great story to tell. And without changing his motives or doing something very drastic with him, uh I feel like he's a character that can just keep showing up in other people's movies and we just wouldn't mind. Yeah, I I I agree. I'd rather get a solo Hawkeye movie than a Doctor Strange movie. As crazy as that is.

SPEAKER_04 1:31:38

Like, you know, uh I I just don't Well, I think one of the reasons is that Doctor Strange films kind of let us down on certain aspects of the MCU.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:46

Well, this all proves damage control for sure.

SPEAKER_04 1:31:47

Yeah. Well, I I wouldn't go so far as a damage control thing. Well, I my main point about this is for for what I just said, magic was introduced to us in the first Doctor Strange movie, but it never was explained to us and anything that followed after that, which has been one of the pet peeves of mine and yours personally, of what is the difference between a sorcerer and a witch? What is the difference between a sorceress and a warlock? Is there even a warlock in there? Because it seems like anybody could do anything and these titles are interchangeable. And I'm sorry, but if MCU has a formula for what these characters specifically are and what they can and can't do, great. It doesn't have to be the norm of what we common folk would think of witchcraft and stuff like that. That's fine. Go right ahead. But just explain it to us because right now your formula of everything being chaotic is the reason why you're in damage control and you're doing doomsday. It's not working. So whether it's in Doomsday, the movie, or in Doctor Strange 3, or however you guys are gonna do it, that needs to be thoroughly defined for us in literally two minutes of your screen time of saying, oh, Scarlet Witch is a witch because she can do A, B, C, and D. I can't channel that power, but I'm a sorcerer and I could do D, F, G, H, I, L M N L P, all that stuff. That's all you need to do. That's it's so simple that I don't know why these people haven't thought of it or just done it already. Yeah, I agree. Anyways, so if you're listening, this is a simple fix. You're gonna win some of us back a little bit on these concepts. Then we'll be more happy to see a Doctor Strange 3. The only thing I don't like about this Doctor Strange 3 thing is I think, sort of like the Black Widow movie, you're kind of at the point where it's almost too little, too late, depending on what you're gonna do for this. Now, Doctor Strange could do a couple different storylines, pretty cool, whatever. But the tease that you left us with of Multiverse of Madness, where he is going to Clea in the comics is his future wife. So you teased her, you teased the opening of the an incursion happening in the dark dimension. And now that we're bypassing all of that because after the incursions and after secret wars, all incursions are supposed to be done. Now we have been deprived of the potential of a Doctor Strange movie in the Dark Dimension, figuring out what incursions are, what Clea is, the difference of sorcerers and sorceresses, because she's a sorceress. Maybe there'll be a difference there. And just exploring more character development for Doctor Strange and the potential new romantic interests in Clea. We've now been deprived of a whole movie that could be really cool, at least for fans of the comics like myself. And you're gonna do Doctor Strange Three and probably not touch upon any of those. And that made that whole Charlie Steran post-cred scene a waste.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:34:44

That's my thought about that. So for me, it's a little bit more disappointment. I'm not gonna say no to Doctor Strange Three. I think that'll be cool. I just think that you already started a good story that you're never gonna tell now, and that's a disappointment. So I'm with you.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:58

I mean, that makes sense. I I I do think they need to do something drastic with him, yeah, or it's gonna get old quick. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:35:05

So, anyways, that that's movie number one. Yeah. Movie number two, Spider-Man 5. Fifth. So this this to me, guys, this isn't a leak. It's a no-brainer. It's a no-brainer because every 69 months they have to have a Spider-Man film in production for Sony to keep the rights. So whether Tom Holland is gonna be doing this till he's 90, which most likely he's gonna, or they decide to pivot to another Spider-Man adjacent hero or whatever, you're gonna get this. So this is this is not really a leak, but this is what has been talked about. So negotiations are already made after an for another trillion trilogy. Brand new day is the first, of course. Also, rumored is that Spider-Man Sony deal has been changed. Um, and was made. Let me read this properly, guys, because I wrote it all down, but now I'm stumbling on my words. Also, rumored that the new Spider-Man deal Sony and Marvel made was to better incorporate Spider-Man with the Sony verse, which is why Sony has already stated publicly they are planning on a soft reboot of the Sony verse, and this could potentially bring crossovers between Spider-Man in the Sony verse and Sonyverse, and potentially bring crossovers of Spider-Man villains into MCU projects. Um, that you normally wouldn't see if it wasn't attached to the Spider-Man name. Um, we do know that Miles Morales is on the table to make his live-action appearance, but we know that's after Beyond the Spider-Verse, because Sony said so. So when Spider-Man 5 comes out, which Beyond the Spider-Verse is supposed to come out next year, so basically anytime, 2028 onward, they can do Miles Morales in live action. And I'm sure Kevin Feige was gonna love that. Tom Hollins already said he wants to now be like the Tony Stark of this new trilogy and mentor someone to take on the Spider-Man mantle. That's the this is the best time and best way to do it, is in Spider-Man 5, getting that started. And by golly, Ned butt better start becoming the Hobgoblin in Spider-Man 5 onward if if we're gonna fulfill that dream.

SPEAKER_02 1:37:15

But what are your thoughts on Spider-Man 5? I think it's a no-brainer. You and I've talked about this being another trilogy, anyways, and it makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 1:37:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:37:24

Um, I would change a little bit of that timeline that you just presented. I think these three movies still need to focus on him, on Spider-Man. I think by the end of these three movies, we need to have the Ned and him have a conflict and turn into that at a full circle. And um I think Miles should be teased at the end of the last one. And then Tom Holland is that cameo character phrase for a couple movies.

SPEAKER_00 1:37:48

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:37:48

For Miles's because then they can just be Miles' movies with him being the Iron Man of that, like you said. I to me that makes more sense. That does. I want to see I think this Spider-Man should end. We get into the secret wars and all that, and once we get into the next phase, I'd like to see a time jump and actually have Spider-Man be even a little older. And that's when Ned goes bad to me. Maybe even elute post-credit scene showing Ned go bad, starting to go bad at the end of this movie, and then over time, you know, have the actor lose a bunch of weight, look real cool. You can see he started building this machine, and all of a sudden, you know, six years later, he's this bad guy that shows up.

SPEAKER_04 1:38:28

And you know, glad you touched upon that because the actual actor has started losing a lot of weight, and they actually they have actually gave him baggier clothes to still make him look like he did before. So that that that is a lot more of a reality type thing that it he's already pulling off in real life, which is kind of cool. Good for you to get your your health in shape, of course. But um Which is something I'm gonna be working on, so watch to see if I transform.

SPEAKER_02 1:38:50

So yeah. Yeah, I think Transformers. Yeah, I can be a transformer, y'all. Uh yeah, I would I still would like to see this trilogy of him focus on him and end it and bring it to an arc. Do all the excuse me, do all the stuff that all the other Spider-Man had to go through still, which is eventually fighting their best friend. Yep. So let's do it. And I think that that was a great nod to it in the No Way Home. And I think you set it up now with re-erasing memory to actually make sense on why it would go bad, because now there's a different take on it.

SPEAKER_00 1:39:27

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 1:39:28

And he might have a different take. And he's already kind of obsessed with Spider-Man. So you're already on that borderline of someone that goes bad because that's a problem. You know what I mean? Yep. And so we're getting hints to do this. I like the idea. I don't care if it's people might come out and say it's predictable. I don't care. It's I want it. Yeah. I just think that it would work well. And and I but then I think it'd be great if the last Spider-Man movie is uh, oh, the is she gonna go crawl up the wall backwards? But it's like a spider landing on your face. You know what I mean? Like, get out of here.

SPEAKER_04 1:40:01

For those of you who don't know, we're we have X-Men one in the background as we're doing our rumor rundown because Disney Plus just automatically generated that.

SPEAKER_02 1:40:08

And then Ike's favorite scene is that creepy ass backwards up the wall mystique thing. I'll never get over how just the look she's given. It's like, get out of here, man. Like it just gives me the heebie jeebies. I feel like I gotta take a shower.

SPEAKER_04 1:40:26

You guys need to watch our X-Men One retrospective because we go into full detail about that. So anyway, Ned being bad.

SPEAKER_02 1:40:32

Yeah, yeah. I think it's I think it's alluded to already. I I like it. And then at the very end of the trilogy, have the boy get bit by a spider and then be like, oh, what's that mean? And then let his movies be mentored by Peter, and and then Tom can kind of ease his way out or just become that for a long time. And it'd be neat to have an older Spider-Man around with the younger Spider-Man doing his thing, and let older Spider-Man be like, I'm I'm gonna go live my normal life while you take care of the city, and you know, but then then have cool moments where he's needed and you can bring him back. Because I think Tom will always have a place in his heart for this, it's why he says no and that doesn't say no to these, you know. And I I hope he sticks around. Yeah, I guess all depends on let's see what what comes after. Yeah. Honestly, to me, that's my pitch, you know. Um, we'll see what this next movie does, and we'll see what uh Secret Wars entails.

SPEAKER_04 1:41:25

Oh I I forgot to mention on this, I'm sorry to cut you off. Yeah, no, go ahead. I just saw it on here. I must have skipped right by this and I was reading Spider-Man 5. Potentially, um, Alex Perez discusses that Venom will be is in line to be the villain to fulfill the post-credit scene of No Way Home of Venom symbiote being left on Earth.

SPEAKER_02 1:41:43

Yeah, I'm down for that. I I I wouldn't mind seeing some of that. Do you if I were them, I'd I'd stretch Venom out even longer. I wouldn't even give Spider-Man, I wouldn't even make Venom be Spider-Man's villain. Have fun. Give them to Miles. That'd be an interesting take on that. Yeah, I mean, why not? It's the you don't have to do exactly what the comics do. I think it would be fun to do that, right? I think it would be interesting to just have a good time with that. You know what the heck? Yeah, I I know I'm just brain, I don't want to get too far because I always go down rabbit holes. But I think it's a great idea. I mean, and if he does show up in one of these other two ones, that's cool too. Yeah. I'm not I'm not against it. I guess as a writer, though, I'd be kind of like, you know what, people will wait for Venom. So let's give him to somebody else. And that could be that character where they have to team up together against him because he's such a bad one, you know. You know, it'd be the worst first Miles Miles', you know what? If actually, if you're gonna give him the Peter Parker treatment in a way, any kind of tragedy you're gonna do to Miles, let Venom be the one to do it. You know, because Spider-Man comes with tragedy, right? Yeah. He has to. Kind of. I'm not 100% up on Miles' story as I am Peter's. Mm-hmm. But is there something in his storyline that is tragic like that? Yeah. Um like what's his main I should know this guy, and I feel bad.

SPEAKER_04 1:43:05

It's okay. I should know a lot more of this too. I'm just going off of because Miles hasn't been that interesting of a character to me, but some of the some of the things I've seen, like in the Spider-Man video games and stuff like that, is his his dad died. His dad was a police officer. That's like the same thing. His his uh he's half black, half Latino.

SPEAKER_02 1:43:22

Um there's a race issue in there too, which is right.

SPEAKER_04 1:43:25

His mom is uh full Latino, and she becomes a councilwoman after his black police officer father passes away from I believe a Spider-Man villain. I believe it was Mr. Negative that kills him, um, which we haven't seen that in the in the MCU yet. But you yeah, I mean there's time, guys, especially if you introduce him at some point.

SPEAKER_02 1:43:45

So there's a good way of tying this in and doing this.

SPEAKER_04 1:43:47

Yeah, and I believe he gets it.

SPEAKER_02 1:43:49

Mr. Negative was Venom, he's got a great movie.

SPEAKER_04 1:43:51

If I remember right, he gets bit by the same type of spider that Spider-Man got bit by, and then he finds Spider-Man and shows him he has the same abilities, and Spider-Man mentors him to take on to just be his partner until at one time Spider-Man disappears and now it's all Miles. I believe, correct me if I'm wrong, the comic version of him I think does differ. I think if I remember right in the comics, Spider-Man Miles Morales is another universe Spider-Man, and then he gets thrown into the MCU. I'm sorry, MCU, or 616, the main main line continuity, and they just blur them together. But I know in recent iterations it he's more of his own character inside the main timeline. So either way. Yeah. Yeah, enough of this convoluted multiverse stuff.

SPEAKER_02 1:44:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:44:40

Or you know, I don't want to bring race into it, and I don't want to get canceled. But I will say this. Tom Holland and Zendaya. She she's not she's definitely over next race. I mean, what are the chances that how crazy would it be if they make Miles their kid? What if we end the Spider-Man trilogy with them having a baby and they name him Miles?

SPEAKER_02 1:45:18

And then the first Spider-Man movie after that is years later, and you find out that he was born with what he is.

SPEAKER_04 1:45:25

So in the movie we're gonna talk about today, there's a continuity issue with that. In this movie, Spider-Man meets the prowler, who is the cousin of uh Miles Morales, and in a deleted scene of Spider-Man Homecoming, the he actually calls Miles and asks for help to get out of this web. So technically Miles already exists.

SPEAKER_02 1:45:49

Sorry, I'm just gonna call it out there. It's gotta be in the movie. I agree. And you just change that. He's just not that. I mean, look how much they changed Thor's sister. Yeah, Thor didn't that's not all real. Hella's not really his sister. No, they I mean they that literally changed the year of death for a Thor movie. And it worked. You could just do this, right? Yeah. It's not far fetched, at least. You're right. It's not far-fetched. Yeah. So I think I actually I I kind of like the idea. I'm not gonna lie to you.

SPEAKER_04 1:46:20

It's interesting. It that's I've never heard of a take like that, but I can I can see that happening. It'll definitely throw a curveball at what everyone thought about, but I don't think that's a bad thing.

SPEAKER_02 1:46:30

I mean, continuity for this iteration of these heroes, it kind of works, you know. And I don't mean to be race about it, but it's they do you they could have a baby that looks that's a very mixed race.

SPEAKER_04 1:46:44

And that could be, I mean, I well see that's one of the things about Miles that is we've talked about the rich history of that. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 1:46:53

But at the same time, it is kind of a cool idea.

SPEAKER_04 1:46:54

Well, what we talk about with um certain characters in Marvel comics when it comes to race, is uh we did this with Black Panther as the greatest example, I think, but some of these other ones like Magneto being Jewish and things like that, there are just some things that are defining to a character based on their race that I think um no one would accept a white Miles Morales. He has to be a Hispanic black heritage of some sort.

SPEAKER_02 1:47:22

Well, even if it did make him look like he's not white and he just happens to take it.

SPEAKER_04 1:47:26

But like you said, like you said, the how they've changed MJ to be the Zendaya type of MJ, that and I don't know specifically Zendaya's heritage and all that stuff, but I do believe she is a mix of actually I want to say she's got white in her.

SPEAKER_02 1:47:42

I'm not sure what she's saying.

SPEAKER_04 1:47:43

I don't think she's got white in her, but I I dare I say, I don't cancel me. I'm speculating and I love all races, but dare I say that she is black Latino heritage? That would be my guess, truthfully.

SPEAKER_00 1:47:57

Or DNA DNE 23. Yeah, we're doing it right now. Sorry, Zedata.

SPEAKER_04 1:48:02

Yeah, beautiful, by the way. Oh, oh beautiful, you're gorgeous. Anyways, yeah, Tom Holland struck gold with you. Um but what are you? So um what are you? What what species of she would laugh if she was here? I'm sure she'd be like, this is funny. She'd probably tell us the whole thing of her background. So Zendaya, parents, teacher, okay. Um, black American, Nigerian ancestry, and she's got some German and Scottish in her. So there's a little bit of white, but maybe in a bit.

SPEAKER_02 1:48:37

Yeah, so I mean, it's possible. I think the only part of mine that really fails it is first of all, you'd have to, like I said, deleted scenes. I don't want to hear about it. If it's not in the movie, it doesn't count.

SPEAKER_04 1:48:48

And second, you have to definitely age him up if you're gonna Tom and them a little bit. Not Tom.

SPEAKER_02 1:48:53

Oh, yeah, you'd have to skip. You'd have to be like 12 years later. Yeah, yes, exactly. And then you would be aging Tom a little, but you might be able to get away with that. Um uh that and you know, um I don't wouldn't want to take away the rich history of culturally what that means of his background either. With that said, any tragedy that does come in his life had would have to be with them, so that would be a big pitfall. I mean, would it be a real storyline to see Spider-Man die? And that then he takes up the full mantle. Takes up the mantle. Like I'm not gonna lie to you guys, it sounds like a good movie. I can see it. And then Zendaya gets to stick around for a while, and she can kind of just become the new Mary Jane, but the real mom, you know. And I kind of dig the idea, guys. I'm just saying. I'm just saying. I get it, it changes a bunch of stuff, but get over it. It's a different medium. We're supposed to be here for the change. Well, that's if you don't like it, then you don't like Infinity War.

SPEAKER_04 1:49:53

You have to compliment the comics, but not the some things written in the comics can't fully translate into the another. Um medium.

SPEAKER_02 1:50:00

So yeah, if you can't take that as a change, then you got no right to like Civil War. Because it's nothing like the books, right? So you can't do that. You can't do that. So you guys gotta accept changes. I just that's a cool if it was given to me as what would you pitch? I think that'd be fun. You know, I think that'd be a great you because you're talking, you got ideas now. I just gave you 10 years worth of ideas of Spider-Man movies in five minutes that would be interesting to watch. Yeah. The very if you did it right. So, anyways, we we got a bunch of them to go through. So let's do some more here.

SPEAKER_04 1:50:35

Yeah, yeah. Let us know what you guys think in the comments, by the way, guys, as we're going through them. We want to hear your take. So the third one here is an Avengers film. Apparently, the Russo brothers are also working on another Avengers film after Secret Wars, rumor has it. Possibly Marvel learned that we shouldn't go too long between Avengers films. So, one of the hot takes that's out there on the internet is we waited so long between Endgame and Doomsday that one of the reasons why phases four, five, and six felt a little disorganized and literally um like a wandering nomad, is they did not have an Avengers film that would tie everything of that phase together. Because that was part of their formula. We do phase one and with Avengers one, phase two and with Avengers two, phase three, and with a two epic parter Avengers, and then phase four and five, we had nothing. And now phase six is a two Avenger parter that let's face it, again, they are I won't say they're making they're doing ketchup, they're doing damage control with these Avengers films, which it could work out in their favor. But do you think they would have learned their lesson enough according to this rumor they have, and they want the Russo brothers to continue doing the big Avengers films? Do you think that by the end of phase uh what is it, seven, we would get Avengers I don't know, Welcome Mutants.

SPEAKER_00 1:52:03

I think they're fixing the wrong problem. Yeah, yep. I got two big takes on this. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:52:10

Um number one, the Russo's have ruined Avengers movies for everybody. Um we're gonna have this now as the second time that they've taken out Avengers movies, and it's a double movie thing. So, first of all, I think the era of one Avengers movie is over. I don't think that you can tell a story that includes multiple amounts of characters that they have, especially once you start doing X-Men along with it in the cis phase. Um where you can't you you have you have to split it up into movies. I think we're used to it now, and I think we like it. And I kind of I was just gonna say I kind of like that. I'd rather have two big changes.

SPEAKER_04 1:52:51

Because then you could tell bigger, overarching stories.

SPEAKER_02 1:52:54

That's right.

SPEAKER_04 1:52:54

We have three hours each.

SPEAKER_02 1:52:55

Any big changes you want to make, you can do. Yeah. So then correcting things would be easier because you'd have that room to do it, and you'd have these, and I kind of that's a great treat. The two Avengers movies within a year. And the other thing is it's never been a problem, anyways. The issue isn't how long we wait for the Avengers movies, it's the shit you give us in between them. The reason why this hasn't worked between Endgame and Doomsday is because you didn't have the Thanos moving in the background the whole time. That's why. But I think the age of Ultrons, it's not gonna happen again. Yeah. I don't think we do one one-offs anymore. It's gonna be two movies. You would think about it. I guess who you think about the next big bad they're gonna fight, right? I think it's gonna be apocalypse. Yeah, I wouldn't I would I'd freaking put his DNA all over the first X-Men movie. If not, if not introducing Apocalypse, I'd introduce Sinister, which is eventually gonna introduce Apocalypse. You know what I mean? Like maybe the first big X-Men movie would be a Sinister guy. I don't know. I maybe Sinister could be a guy that they fight. I don't know. I'm speculating a lot of that. My point being is though, the problem isn't the distance between the Avengers movies, it's the content between them that counts the most. And I also do truly believe that we I think we were served better by getting these doubles, especially if these two are awesome and we're like, thank God they did it. And yeah, we saw the course correction, but they're great. If these two land the way they're hoping they do, and the way honestly it probably looks like they're gonna, with the Russos doing them, I'm have a feeling how bad can they be, right? So if they if these two just blow us out of the water, then the one and done Avengers movies is done, man. It's not gonna happen again. Not because then you're gonna get crap like the things that was wrong with Age of Ultron. You're gonna want a two-movie thing to tell an arc of a story. Because let's be honest, what really set well with Endgame and Infinity War was that development of Thanos himself over the two movies. I mean, it's great. It's like you need it. I think we need it now at this point.

SPEAKER_00 1:55:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:55:14

I do. And and once again, um, it's not the distance, it's the quality. Yep, that's true. You give us a big bad to look forward to, or or a hint, or make these movies have that little bit of glue, then we'll we'll wait two phases for one. Yep.

SPEAKER_04 1:55:31

We really will wait for a good Avengers movie. I I agree. I agree exactly what you said there. I don't think it's waiting for Avengers movies. I think they're cool, I think they're complementary to the overarching story. And to remind people, this is a share connected universe, but that not having an Avengers at the end of phase four and five is not why they sucked. It's the content you gave us in four and five, and the wandering aimlessly and then teasing a villain that now we're never gonna get. And how they did do the villain poor taste in how they did it. That's that's what sucked.

SPEAKER_02 1:56:07

How long have we known Doctor Doom is gonna be the new villain?

SPEAKER_04 1:56:11

Two and a half years at most.

SPEAKER_02 1:56:12

How long did we know Thanos was coming?

SPEAKER_04 1:56:15

Almost a decade. About eight years.

SPEAKER_02 1:56:18

There's your answer.

SPEAKER_04 1:56:19

Yeah. It's in right there. Oh, longer than eight years, actually. Iron Man, oh well, 2012, and then yeah, it was eight years. Eight years later since we got it.

SPEAKER_02 1:56:30

Yep. So, guys, I'd rather this not happen. The single Avengers movies this fast, don't ruin the Avengers name, especially if these two rock. Because your key thing that keeps this going will be that title, The Avengers. Yes. That's true. Don't ruin the good thing you got. Right, because your problem isn't that. Your problem is what you we had nothing to look forward to until two years ago. And we still don't understand what we're even looking forward to.

SPEAKER_04 1:57:00

Honestly, yes. We only know of Doom from the previous iterations of the live action and the early Fantastic Four movies and the comics. MCU has never introduced Doom. So your casual casual MCU fan that just watches the movies and says it's MCU, I'm gonna watch it. They're not as hyped for this, other than Robert Downey Jr.'s coming back. That's the only hype around Doom you got. Honestly, if he wasn't announced as Doom, you wouldn't have that much Doom hype yet.

SPEAKER_02 1:57:27

Yeah, you go back and look at Guardians, you got scenes of Thanos. We got we got Thanos all over the place. Like, oh, he's coming, he's coming.

SPEAKER_04 1:57:33

We had stored development of Thanos before you got to Infinity War.

SPEAKER_02 1:57:35

Yeah. And then when you got it, it was oh, this feels yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:57:38

And then they didn't have to reintroduce him. That was the beauty about that.

SPEAKER_02 1:57:41

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 1:57:41

So, anyways, guys, next film. Number four, Shang Chi 2. Now, this one is kind of a no-brainer, it's already confirmed to be in the works. Yeah. Um, Destin Daniel Creton is highly regarded by Kevin Feige. Like Kevin Feige talks high praise about him, and the proof is in the thought, the stuff he's done. Shang Chi 1 was highly thought of as one of the best movies of phase four. Um, Wonder Man is one of their best TV shows that's highly regarded. And now, so far, with the release, impending release of Spider-Man Brand New Day, has nothing but praise from Kevin Feige and company. So it just makes sense that that probably is gonna be his next film because he's still in active development with it, apparently.

SPEAKER_02 1:58:27

So I don't got much to say about this one. It's just yeah, brilliant. I mean, that's that's obvious. I imagine that that first one, he's they hold that movie well, it's great. Um, I definitely think that I'd like to see them get really creative with it. Yes, yep. Get creative, have fun with it, you know. You got a lot of really cool mystical stuff to do with that, the the oriental side of it. So uh enjoy that and dip into that realm and have a good time.

SPEAKER_04 1:58:50

And now that you've introduced the world, yeah, now you can explore the world and the sequel, how it's supposed to be. So, anyways, uh that was a quick one, guys. Number five, Thunderbolts 2. This took me by surprise. So, because I didn't think that I thought Thunderbolts was gonna be a one and done. Apparently not. Um, unsure if it's the same director uh returning due to the same director, I believe Jack Schreyer. Is that his name? I believe so. I hope I didn't mention Jack Schreier. Yes. He is uh now gonna be doing the directing the first MCU X-Men film as confirmed. Um but this may Thunderbolts 2. It sounds like they do want to do it. They want to bring back Yelena, they want to bring back um Red Guardian, and then it also apparently part of this rumor is they want to introduce new characters. An example would be Bullseye, who's now been recruited at the end of Daredevil Born Again season two. We'll see what happens in season three to see if that actually could be fleshed out and done. But um, that is the the fifth movie that's rumored to be on the slate. Um, I could just tell you my initial thoughts right now is I am surprised, like I said, starting off with, but I welcome it. I think the Thunderbolts is a unique flavor. It depends on what they're gonna do with Doomsday and Secret Wars and how this universe is gonna be rebooted to see how exactly that would work out. But I I actually was pleasantly surprised with that movie that I'd welcome a sequel to it. Not that I need a sequel, but I I'm not gonna say no to it. If they say we have a cool idea, Kevin Feige's in agreement with it, and the higher ups are like, let's do it. So, what are your thoughts on that?

SPEAKER_02 2:00:31

I have two quick thoughts. And I because it's so blunt and I've been so uh couldn't be more sure of it. I think first of all, for one, I don't think there needs to be a sequel. I like it as a one and done movie, I think it's great. Um, I don't see I see a sequel potentially making it boring. And two, I there is definitely no sequel if there's no Bucky. Because that movie is good. That's true. Or you take Bucky out of it and it's not anymore. That's very true. If Bucky's gone, don't do it.

SPEAKER_04 2:01:02

He's one of the flavors that you need to make the soup good. You need it. Yeah. I I agree. So if you're getting rid of him, throw this out too. Well, see, the problem with this is if you get rid of Bucky, there's now lesser, different variety of characters, and it's more of the Black Widow characters are taking center stage. You might as well make Black Widow 2 at that point.

SPEAKER_02 2:01:22

Yep, exactly. And you know how that first one went.

SPEAKER_04 2:01:26

Yeah. Could have been better. Anyways, uh, next movie, number six, we just touched upon it, X-Men. Oh, yeah, duh. That's already guaranteed to be in the next film. They got the writers, they got the directors.

SPEAKER_02 2:01:36

This might be one of the first ones that comes.

SPEAKER_04 2:01:38

Yeah. Honestly, and the the rumor about this that Alex Perez gives is he believes that the team is gonna be teased at the end of Secret Wars. That's how you're gonna get your intro to them, and then you get their full movie next.

SPEAKER_02 2:01:50

This is where I'm gonna insert that thing I warned you about yesterday. Yeah. So do this movie, obviously. I have a great fan cast, and I'm just gonna say it and we're gonna move on. I'm just gonna let you melt in it and burn. You're just gonna get mad, you're gonna stare at it. He might even get mad for a second, but I have a great, great new cast for for Gambit. Because I don't think we're getting Channing Tatum moving forward after this. I think they're considering him part of the old, and he's just gonna be a part of this because we want more, and they know we want more, and he's willing to do it, and we're gonna get some awesome stuff, but then he's done. I think he's done. And I think Jared Leto should be Gambit. So what's the next movie, Sam?

SPEAKER_00 2:02:35

Ooh. I can defend it. If you want to talk about it, second, I'm with you. I'll talk about it for a second, I'll give you my reasons, but that's my pick. Let me tell you why I think so, maybe.

SPEAKER_02 2:02:50

Go ahead and say it. I think people underestimate how good of an actor he is. I do because I can pick out stuff that is excellent, and you've seen some two minutes of a Batman movie proves it, and then there's others, and I don't think he's the reason why those other movies didn't work. I agree that too. Yep. Um, and Jared is a method actor. You say, hey, you gotta be a little bayou, like you gotta get that accent, you gotta do that stuff, he'll go do it. And he'll come back, and he's in shape. And Gambit's a little taller and center in the cartoons, so you're looking a little more like him in that, anyways. If you want to talk looks-wise, I don't think you have a problem with that. And I think it's the right age for Gambit, because he's not a young student, he's someone that always came later, anyways. I think that's and I think he'd rock it. Guys, comment down below. Let us know what you think. That I convince you or not. Jared Leto's game. For some reason y'all hate Jared Leto, but grow up.

SPEAKER_04 2:03:44

That's the thing. I don't hate Jared Leto.

SPEAKER_01 2:03:46

I just think that's the problem with these movies.

SPEAKER_04 2:03:48

Yeah. And he was an excellent skeletor, honestly. He was very good at skeletor. That's great. He was, I mean, gosh, I I liked it. But um you guys are over hating Jared Leto. I'm sorry. Give me a legit reason why he's bad.

SPEAKER_02 2:04:09

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 2:04:09

That's your problem.

SPEAKER_04 2:04:10

Yes. It's not the actor, it's the movie they did. Anyways, moving on. So, um, after that, number seven, Black Panther 3. Now, that's also a no-brainer. It's already been confirmed it's in the works. Um, but apparently Ryan Cooler wants it to be more supernatural, and something he has said apparently for a long time, and now he actually has a the chance to do it, he wants to introduce Aurora Monroe Storm through the Wakandan Black Panther universe. Um so there are two different directions, according to Alex Perez, that they are depend deciding on going, and it depends on exactly what else they're gonna do with the character. Um either way, though, Alex Perez does believe that Damson Idris has already been cast as Black Panther. He's under the impression, no matter what way they do it, he's in this movie. I hope so. And he's in Secret Wars. He apparently believes that he is in Secret Wars. So a great case. Yeah. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 2:05:15

The answer.

SPEAKER_04 2:05:16

Yes. Um, it's either going to be a coming-of-age story or a continuation of a grown-up T'Challa. Uh, rumor has it that they may skip the coming of age story as Damson Idris is already reportedly cast, according to him, as Black Panther and will make an appearance in Secret Wars. Also, this would leave an opening for a coming of age story of the young T'Challa 2 to be involved in what they still want to do as a young Avengers either Disney Plus show or a feature film. So they would save the growing up years for that film, but jumping right into Black Panther 3, you get already grown up T'Challa. So that's the that's the two things that they're considering, according to rumor. Um, any other thoughts on this?

SPEAKER_02 2:06:01

Yeah, I've always said that their biggest mistake was not just recasting T'Challa. Yep. Yep. Um, I understand you want to show some sort of support and love for him for the actor, but I do think I don't know him personally, but from what I've heard of him saying, the activist that he was, or how he felt, why you don't just give that role to another young black actor that wants that that could work just as hard as him was the mistake you made. Exactly. By making that character die with him, made it, it didn't make it about what you got what what the woke community made it about at that point. You took it as ownership and it went away. And to me, that was the biggest mistake you made. It you find someone like a Danson Idris, who's gonna be a great actor and who could fill that spot, and we just accept that he's passed away, and this guy doesn't look just like him, and it's okay because it's honoring him. Yes. That's what you should do with this character.

SPEAKER_04 2:06:58

I completely agree. I think that when he Chadwick Bosem Bozeman unfortunately passed away, what you did was you didn't think about the character, you thought about the actor. I think so, you let the character go. Yes. In doing so, you did a disservice to the character, and you did a disservice. Hot take, come at me, you did a disservice to every other young black actor who's trying to make it in Hollywood. Any one of the weight? Yes, you took a big phenomenal, what you defined as a cultural breaking role. Which Wesley did first. I was gonna say that's overhyped because Wesley did. Exactly. No, no, no. But you gave it a little too high of a price on that regard. But regardless, your own words, you took away a culturally breaking, phenomenal breakout role away from a potential new young up-and-coming African-American actor. Yes. And that's sad. That's actually really bad on your part. I don't like that. You did not respect Chad Bozeman in doing that.

SPEAKER_02 2:07:59

Anyway, that said, also, if you're gonna bring Storm in, I kind of am for this. Yes. Yeah. Because I'd like I've always liked that Storm wasn't one of the kids in the in the mansion. She was, I joined because I'm there. Like I said, she's the principal that he hires to take care of the school while he's the superintendent. Exactly when I say he. I don't I don't like that Storm that I I would like to see that change with Storm, where like, you know, she's not one of the kids that grew up together. She's kind of their boss. Yeah. But not. You know, like she's when the school for the school, she's their boss. But Scott's still Scotty.

SPEAKER_04 2:08:38

So exactly. All right. So the next one actually is kind of uh it's it's a little uncertain according to Alex Perez. The next two. Yes, I'm gonna say it both as as one thing, because he is uncertain if this is two separate films or this is one film and they're incorporating all this as one. So Blade and Midnight Suns. Blade, according to the report, Marvel is still fully committed on doing a Blade film still. Um, and they're actually interested, according to Alex Perez, in Ryan Kugler from the Black Panther stuff in doing it given how big Sinners was, and they want to mimic some of those same attributes and introducing vampires. One of the common themes with that, I know one of the common themes I'm seeing with that in particular is it seems like Marvel is picking certain directors to helm multiple different projects. And I don't know if that is I want to say it's a mistake, but I also see it as a safety net for them. If they have perfect relationship with some of these actors, and or I'm sorry, directors are producing great films in their sagas and they want to keep that, then they're saying you're gonna have Black Panther and Blade, and then Destin's gonna have Spider-Man and Shang Chi, and then Jack Schreier's gonna have X-Men and Thunderbolts. You know, I I see that, but whether it's good or not, we'll have to find out when some of these stuff comes out. And then, of course, Midnight Suns, apparently part of the rumor of that is Blade. Well, if if Blade is separate from Midnight Suns, Midnight Suns will be teased at the end of the Blade solo film, according to this rumor. Um, and he definitely will be part of the Midnight Suns, and they will bring back Moon Knight and uh Dane Whitman from the Eternals movie for Midnight Suns. And they're gonna apparently model this as a supernatural Avengers team. So, both of them, go ahead and your two cents on them.

SPEAKER_02 2:10:35

Uh Sinners just isn't as good as everybody makes it out to be. I'm not saying it's bad. It's a great movie, it's fun, um, but it's allegorically kind of it's weird. I don't know how to say it, but I don't know. I don't want to say too much to get too weird. But it's definitely um there's a back, there's a there's a thing that's being talked about in Sinners that I don't I might kind of feel like you're bashing people over the head with a hammer about your message in that movie. Um with that said, though, it's a very visually fun movie, it's acted very well. Like I don't think it's a bad movie, I just don't think it's this amazing cultural icon that everybody makes it out to be, um, or this cultural event. With that said, I don't think Ryan Kugler is this big cultural director either yet. I think he needs to prove himself some more. Um, but let's get away from that so I don't get in trouble online because I'm I don't want it to come off as anything bad. So I don't mean it in that way, but I definitely just feel it's heavy-handed, is all in your message, is very heavy-handed. And it kind of makes some people feel boxed in and not allowed to enjoy it. Does that make sense? I've been in that situation before now, and I'm not a fan of that, you know. And Supergirl's dealing with that right now because men aren't supposed to like supergirl. So Blade and Midnight Sun, though, that should be a movie. That's it. It shouldn't be two movies. This should be the movie. I don't Think you need to do a solo blade movie. I just don't. Not that it wouldn't work, I think it could work. But if you've got Midnight Suns, because you take the character of Midnight Suns and take Blade out of it, that's not a good movie. But you take put Blade in it, and then you just made this really cool ensemble, you know, Suicide Squad-esque, Thunderbolts-esque style of these supernatural things that's going on. To me, it's what would you say? Be I think it's Punisher, Blade, and Ghost Rider. And that's your three heads. And then you have the characters come in as they go, right? To me, that's how I do it. And then bring the supernatural in and have fun with it that way, and always have them be a team in that sense, or just for that movie, it would be cool. Um yeah, I I I think to me that makes the most sense, truthfully. Um I will say this when it comes to Blade. I don't believe a damn thing they say until we buy the tickets. Because I still think they don't know how to do it.

SPEAKER_00 2:13:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:13:05

And that that's what it comes down to. It this should be one movie, three people star in it, make have fun with it, you know, blah blah blah. And but they gotta figure out where this is gonna work because we need these things in these things, you know. There should be a horror director. Yeah, yeah, not Ryan Cooler. Is Ryan Cooler now a horror director because Sinners is a vampire movie? No, Sinners is not a horror movie, guys. It's got horror elements. We need a horror director, someone who directs horror movies.

SPEAKER_04 2:13:39

The thing, and I'm not I don't that's not uh Sinners bashing segment or anything, guys, but uh I do think it was overhyped. Yes, there was no thing of vampires until almost the third act. It was very weird that this was put off put on as a actually to me, the vampirism came out of nowhere. And then that's then when the movie became vampirism, it was good for that part of the vampirism. But before that, it was nothing but literally a hold down that they're putting together in their hometown. That's it.

SPEAKER_02 2:14:09

Well, there's a lot of cultural appropriation themes in there. That's why it's that way. It's we can dissect that movie like that, and and they want us to, and frankly, sometimes it makes me feel, oh, so I can't enjoy this movie. Because if I like it, I'm culturally appropriating just because I like it. Like the dude, it's yeah, it the movie's become more of a political statement, just like Supergirl is now. And it's just kind of crappy to me. That's like, why can't we just enjoy a movie? Exactly. Like you can still do those themes and still have that stuff, but don't make me feel bad for liking your stuff. Yeah. You know, don't make it then. You know, it's I don't know. It's part of the that's part of the problem I have with that. Is white people that like uh sinners, they kind of roll their eyes. Of course you do.

SPEAKER_04 2:14:58

It's like, well, do you not do you want them to not like it and therefore not get the box office revenue? It's like what's like come on, guys, be real.

SPEAKER_02 2:15:05

Anyways, but yeah, this should be that, and it should be horror director. I think this should have been the Sam Ramby movie. Frankly, but that's all right.

SPEAKER_04 2:15:13

Well, um, the last uh there's two that I'm gonna say kind of like honorable mentions. One's a TV show, one's a film. Um, the TV show one, Brad Winterbaum, has confirmed he does want a Nova TV show. Yeah, I don't know what I literally wrote on my notes eh, because I'd rather see Nova actually be in Guardians 4 if they do that, because I think that'll be a little bit more of an interesting take. I already have a movie planned out for Guardians 4. I'll put it in my Mirror Dimension episode whenever I get around to them, guys. But uh yeah, Nova, I'm not interested in a Nova TV show.

SPEAKER_02 2:15:46

Yeah, I I you guys know me uh by now. If they stopped doing the shows, I wouldn't cry. So the but this this one definitely doesn't move the needle for me to want more shows.

SPEAKER_04 2:15:56

The problem for me is if you do a Nova TV show and you are gonna remain true on separating the films from the shows, that means we won't get Nova in a live action film. And if they did it right or they backtrack, I'm gonna hang you. But um like because we don't want that.

SPEAKER_02 2:16:12

That's the whole one of the problems you got. I think your TV shows need to be more like the one we're gonna talk about today.

SPEAKER_04 2:16:17

Yeah. All right. And then the notable mention is not on here, but apparently Kevin Feige was very satisfied with how Eternals turned out, even though some of the fans did not like it. And at the time, he was told by someone higher up than him, believe it or not, there is, at that time especially, that they want to start churning out more of a profit and have good names and good titles, and they didn't want him to move forward with an internals too. But now that he's back at taking the helm a little bit and seeing how this could, these next two Avengers films could revitalize interest in the MCU again. He apparently, rumored has it, wants to take another go at doing an internals 2. See, I can see a great story for Eternals 2, and I actually have one I'm gonna pitch to you guys on the mirror dimension and to my brother that involves Arnold Schwarzenegger.

SPEAKER_02 2:17:06

But he started to I'm interested, I can't wait to hear it.

SPEAKER_04 2:17:08

So yeah, but I also want to say similar to one of these other films, like Doctor Strange 3, it's almost too little too late.

SPEAKER_00 2:17:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:17:18

I would love to see it, don't get me wrong, Angeline Jolie, yes, yes. But at the same time, it depends on how they're doing secret wars, and will Eternals be needed when they reset everything.

SPEAKER_02 2:17:30

Yeah, they left us in a weird spot with them, and uh, it's kind of like it all depends on what happens in these next two movies. And I think there's one big glaring thing that we've all forgot that's still yet to happen that we need to address at some point or somehow is when the hell is Airsham gonna come back and judge us? Like in the middle of all this stuff, we got a celestial out there that's thinking about destroying the planet. Yep. Yep. Are we just gonna pretend that didn't happen? They set up because it kind of was like he's shown up in the sky. They set up a sequel for this movie.

SPEAKER_04 2:18:08

Yeah. In that scene, they set up a sequel so well where you've even divided the eternals, yeah, where you have three here and four here, and then one's technically dead, but maybe not, because now that we they found out there's other versions of them out there and all this different stuff that you easily could now do, kind of like an Infinity War version of an Eternals movie, where you could have the best of everyone in different scenes and tell a cohesive story on the origin of celestials and fighting what it takes to fight a celestial like them. It's perfect, it's really already there for you. But moving forward with it, their hesitancy and now so long of it being going going on, and especially after whatever they're doing in Secret Wars, I don't know if they could do it and pull it off. Yeah, it's the three things they got against it.

SPEAKER_02 2:18:52

Is for one, it's been too long. Yep. For two, it's you really depends on if these characters even show up in these two movies. Yep. And if they do, we need to we need them to if we're gonna get another one. Yep. Really, we need a reminder. And three, you can't do a second one without talking about what happened at the end of the first one. Because if they think we're just gonna forget it, we're not going to. We can forget little things. We'll forget little stuff. But that him showing up like that was big.

SPEAKER_04 2:19:21

Well, it's just like when that thing coming out of the the And it took so many movies to get to it. And when you finally did, I was like, that's probably the only good thing about that movie.

SPEAKER_02 2:19:29

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Obviously, it really is. Yeah, that's the only creative part of it that I liked. Yes. Was that that's that's Animentium now, and it's a thing. Good idea. At least it happened. But if that happened, then he's showing up in the sky. You can't nitpick what you want to be just because it didn't work. Yes. Sorry, guys, do better. You know what I mean? And so if they want us to forget Aeroshim's coming around and just say, oh, let's just see if they forget about it. Well, we're not gonna. Yeah. So sorry. Only Singer can get away with that with Xavier because it's Xavier. But that's and even then I did have a problem that they did it, but at the same time, yeah, it's this is a different kind of correction and it needs to be handled differently. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:20:08

All right. So, guys, that I think that wraps up the room mode rundown right there. So please comment down below what you think of all these potential movies. Do you think any of them are worthwhile? Do you think there should be something different? Let us know in the comments below. And Ike, what are we off to next?

SPEAKER_02 2:20:22

So, next, guys, we're gonna do a branch point breakdown of Werewolf by night. Um, probably be a quicker segment than usual. It's only, gosh, it's only like a 45-minute long thing, right? Like the movie was only an hour. But like, I uh yeah, we have a few things to say about it, but it'd be fun to talk about. You know, I'm it's this is the TV shows of the MCU that I'd prefer. Yeah, that's a good way of putting it, honestly. But I do have another take on it as well. So it'll be fun to talk about. So, guys, join us there and let's talk about some werewolf by night. Welcome to the Goodell Multiverse. We're into our segment now of branch point breakdown of Werewolf by Night. I just put in an order to have someone turn the heat down outside. I don't think it's gonna work. Um, but we are melting and and we'll we'll make it. We got a fan going, we're gonna get there. But yeah, let's get this movie talked about. I would not want to be a werewolf today, all the fur. Hell no. So it's even a werewolf would be like, oh, I just take a nap. So we're gonna get right into this guy. Um, this is a very interesting one, and I'm very excited to talk about some of this. And I'm gonna have Sammy do a quick little history behind the making of this, and then I'll give you the uh synopsis of it, and we'll bust through an act and we'll let you know what's going on, what we think of it.

SPEAKER_04 2:21:39

All right, let's do her. So, guys, this is Werewolf by Night. It was released on Disney Plus on October 7th, 2022. The main cast include um Gail. Is it Gail? Yeah, Gail. Gail Garcia Bernall, Laura Donoli, Harriet Samson Harris, Kirk Thatcher, Carrie Jones, and Eugene Bonderant. Perfect. So uh some of the history, Werewolf by Night was one of the most unusual projects Marvel Studios produced during the expansion of the MCU's Phase 4 era, serving as the studio's first special presentation rather than the traditional film or Disney Plus series. The idea came from Marvel wanting to explore different genres within the MCU, similar to how WandaVision explored sitcoms and Loki explored time travel and mythology. Development reportedly began in 2021 with Marvel looking for a way to introduce its supernatural side, including characters connected to classic horror comics. The project was written by Heather Quinn and Peter Cameron, with legendary composer Michael Giercario, Giacino, Giacino. That's it, yep. Um, selected to make his Marvel directorial debut. Giacchino had already been deeply connected to Marvel through his work composing the scores for films like Doctor Strange and later Spider-Man No Way Home. But this marked his first time directing a major Marvel project. At the time, filming began in early 2022. The MCU was in a major transition period. Marvel had just completed the Infinity Saga with Avengers Endgame and was deep into phase four, which was introducing new heroes, multiverse concepts, and darker corners of the universe. The Disney Plus era was expanding rapidly with shows like Falcon the Winter Soldier, Hawkeye, and Moon Knight. Supernatural elements were becoming more important because Marvel was preparing audiences for characters like Blade, which we never get, and The Darker Side of Doctor Strange and mystical threats beyond traditional superheroes. The special was also released shortly after projects like Doctor Strange and Multiverse of Madness, which continued pushing Marvel into a horror-inspired storytelling. The cast was also interesting at interesting points of their careers, with Gail Garcia Bernal was already an internationally respected actor known for films like Amarals, Perils, and Motorcycle Diaries, but Werewolf by Night introduced him to massive franchise audience as Jack Russell. Not the dog, a person. Not the terrier? Not the terrier, but he is a terror. So um Laura Donnelly, who plays Elsa Bloodstone, known for projects like Outlander and the Nerves. Veteran actress Harriet Samson Harris joined as Verusa Bloodstone, bringing decades of television and theater experience. At the time, the project was internationally built around actors who could carry small, character-driven horror story rather than a typical Avenger scale production. Behind the scenes, Marvel took a very different approach from its normal productions. Giaciano, Gia Giacchino, sorry, wanted the special to feel like classic monster movies from the 1930s and 40s, especially the Universal Horror Era, which inspired the decision to present the story almost entirely in black and white, then later in color. Interestingly, the special was actually filmed in color before being converted during post-production, allowing filmmakers to be a little more flexible. The production focused heavily on practical effects, physical sets, and old school horror filmmaking techniques instead of relying on only CGI. Marvel even emphasized creating real environments and having actors interact with practical creatures, including the character Ted, also known as Man Thing. Ted. The production filmed primarily in Troutle Studios in 2022, while filming take with filming taking place over a relatively short schedule compared to a Marvel feature film. One of the biggest fun facts about the project is that Giacino did both directing and composing duties. His musical style became a major part of the atmosphere, blending horror, mystery, and adventure while playing tribute to classic monster movies. Marvel also released a behind-the-scenes documentary titled Director by Night, which followed his experience making the project and featured his brother, Anthony, documenting the production process. Another unique aspect was that Marvel treated it as a one-night experience rather than building it around multiple episodes, giving it a self-contained feel closer to an old horror TV special. In terms of budget and streaming performance, Marvel Disney did not publicly release an official production budget for Werewolf by Night, and Disney Plus does not provide traditional box office numbers or complete public viewership totals like theatrical films. So third-party streaming measurement companies estimated that the special performs strongly for a short Disney Plus release, benefiting from the Marvel brand and Hollywood Halloween timing. But there is no verified Disney reported viewership number available. Come on, Disney, let's get on it. Yeah. Um, its strategy is less about generating blockbuster streaming numbers, more about expanding MCU style and introducing supernatural characters at lower production scale. The critical reception was extremely positive compared to many phase four MCU projects. On Rotten Tomatoes, Warwolf by Night holds 90% critic score and 88% audience score, with critics praising his atmosphere, short runtime, black and white style, and a direction. From the director, many reviewers described it as a refreshing change of pace because it felt like a less than the traditional Marvel Formula project and more tribute to horror classic cinema. Fans especially responded well to the introduction of Jack Russell and Man Thing, many viewing as the proof that Marvel could successfully explore different genres beyond superhero action. Overall, Roarwolf by Night became an important experiment for Marvel Studios. It showed that the MCU could tell smaller, stranger stories while still connecting to the larger universe. Rather than being built around world-ending stakes, it focused on atmosphere, character, and horror influences, opening the door for Marvel's supernatural corner and proving that a 54-minute black and white monster story could stand apart from the larger superhero formula. Alright, guys. For sure. The history.

SPEAKER_02 2:28:05

Yeah. I think they succeeded. Yeah. It's very well done. Yeah, they definitely got the old horror trope. So we'll talk about them as we go through it. Yeah, some of it's really cool and some of it works really well. And I I am a I'm very happy with um well let me get to Synops, guys. We'll get into it. I want to go right into it. I'm like, no, hold on. So Synops guys is following the death of their leader, a secret group of monster hunters, which is a great idea already. I don't even care what's next. Gathers at Bloodstone Temple for a deadly competition to win a powerful relic, pitting them against a dangerous creature. I'm gonna read act one for us real quick so we can just get talking about it. Werewolf by night is uh oops. Right? Yeah, I'm still in the right spot. Uh yeah. Werewolf by night is a black and white Marvel Studios Halloween special that introduces a darker supernatural corner in the Marble Cynic Universe. The story begins at the Bloodstone Manor, where a group of monster hunters gather following the death of Ulysses Bloodstone. That is an awesome name. Uh the longtime owner of the powerful Bloodstone Relic. The gathering is organized by his widow, uh Versusa Versusa Bloodstone? Yeah, Varusa. Varessa something like that. It's not such a good name. Um, who announces a deadly competition. The hunters must enter a maze-like monster, a maze-like monster preserve and hunt down a creature hidden inside. Whoever kills the monster will in their possession of the Bloodstone. An artifact with immense supernatural power. Among the Hungers are famous monster slayers, including Jack Russell Terry. I mean, Jack Russell, a quiet and mysterious man who seems out of place, and Elsa Bloodstone, the estranged daughter of Ulysses, who returns to claim her family legacy after years away. As the hunt begins, the competitors enter the grounds and search through the dark forests for their target. Elsa quickly discovers that the other hunters are more interested in eliminating each other than working together, while Jack appears unusually compassionate towards the creature they are hunting. Elsa and Jack eventually cross paths and form an uneasy alliance, realizing that there is more happening than a simple monster hunt. Meanwhile, the creature stalking the hunters is revealed to be Ted. It's so funny, Ted. All these awesome names, and they call me Ted. And it's there it is. A gentle and intelligent monster who is actually being hunted for reasons beyond fear or superstition. Jack secretly tries to protect Ted, revealing that he is not like the other hunters, and understands that monsters are not always the villains people believe them to be. Yes. So I'm gonna right off the bat tell you I like the black and white part of this. I like that they went this direction. I like that this is all taken over and there's a situation where watch it's not like a days thing that's going on. This is an overnight situation. We're all in one group in one area. I love small stories like this. I like it. I like this part of it. And I think they capture that old monster feeling with this. How do you feel about that?

SPEAKER_04 2:31:08

I agree. I I was pleasantly surprised with this movie overall, and then in this first act, I think, and it it it may this may reveal my hot take at the same time, to be honest. This is their way of introducing the supernatural.

SPEAKER_02 2:31:28

I thought the same thing.

SPEAKER_04 2:31:29

This I don't understand how hard it is for them to get a blade movie up off its feet when you've already made the formula for introducing supernatural to us through this. If anything, this should have been the beginning of their Midnight Suns.

SPEAKER_02 2:31:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:31:48

That is my hot take. So come at me. Uh but it's great. That's why I'm giving this this compliment. This is a huge compliment because someone already wrote it and already introduced it to the MCU. It's just not to a larger scale, like a feature film, which, if this was a feature film, it I think I would have done really well.

SPEAKER_02 2:32:04

It'd been a great first 15 minutes of a movie into bigger things.

SPEAKER_04 2:32:08

Yes. Oh, yes. This whole thing. This is this is really cool. They didn't overcomplicate it, they just jumped right in. I love the introduction of all the different monsters. I've particularly loved the animatronics of the deceased Ulysses Bloodstone. Perfect. None of that was CGI. It showed, and we loved it.

SPEAKER_02 2:32:29

Yeah, you've heard me say in the Dark Dimensions before the less CGI with monsters and horror stuff, the better. You know, and I like their choice of picking when to use color, when not to use color. It shows that they're paying attention to the tropes they want us to see. Yep. And oh man, man, thing is cool. It looks so great. It looks good. It's one of my favorite things. And it follows that trope of like all these old classic monsters that we know Dracula, Wolfman, Mommy, they all have a tragic story to them that makes you aw. I see why they're that way. But yet there's still a scary thing there. And I think that that's something that they did a good job keeping that intact here.

SPEAKER_04 2:33:09

The most CGI they did was on man thing, some of the movements of the werewolf, but not the full werewolf when we get there.

SPEAKER_02 2:33:15

Just some action stuff that they have to do.

SPEAKER_04 2:33:17

And of course, when they're using that relic, it has to you can't have like gre red stuff around it or whatever colors around it for the black and white people. It is red in the colored version. But other than that, that's all they use the CGI for, and it's perfect.

SPEAKER_02 2:33:31

It's perfect relic could be a great use of like that, could be a a plot device in a blade movie.

SPEAKER_04 2:33:36

Yeah, easily. Like this is so cool, guys. Anyways, even so, the Bloodstone. Yeah, after the Bloodstone family. I think that's really cool. The only I like, I like the evil stepmother. Um I think that I think that she is she's she's complicated in that she doesn't like outright ban Elsa from. Being part of this, but she does vehemently show her distaste, disdain for her. Yeah, she does not like her at all. But she's allowing her to compete. So it's it's this it's this weird of maybe I have to for dishon for tradition purposes, but I really don't want you to have anything, you know? But, anyways, uh, I'd love to see what that backstory was a little more on why she wasn't there and all that stuff. But of course, this is a short presentation, so they can't do more about that.

SPEAKER_02 2:34:25

But I think they undercut some of the characters in this. They didn't get a lot to really this this could have served well as a feature film, even on the Disney Plus thing. Yeah. Without it going to the movie. You could have done another half hour of this and may have made this a lot better. Yeah. Because some of the guys I would have liked to get to know, they just kind of die quick and they they they're underutilized, you know, in this first part. But I get it, with the constraints that you're trying to do it with, it doesn't hurt it, but it did make me feel it, it does feel rushed. Yeah. I will say that. It feels rushed, and then the parts that don't feel rushed are are are very creatively sound. Um, but not always do they all mix well either for me. So I think that's some of my problem with this first part, is it just feels that way. But I will I do want to give a lot a lot of the best I have to say about it is the acting, I think, is well, is good. I do like the the the animatronics and the look, like the practicalness of it, the the technical side of this show is very on point. It's really good. Yeah, I think I just would have liked, I don't know. I really think it could have been fleshed out a little differently. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:35:35

The only thing longer, maybe. Yeah, I agree. Yeah, the only thing I would say that put me off the most of this whole movie is Elsa Bloodstone to a degree. And the only reason I say that is because she reminds me of Jessica Jones so much. Oh, you know, from her look until you said it, I didn't think about it to some of her her quippiness, which is great, riding really well. It's just that it reminds me of like this is her long-lost sister. And then some of her fighting style actually mimics Black Widow. Like we're about to see one right now on the screen where she does a Black Widow move, which is pretty cool. It's epic. But at the same time, it makes me feel like had we gotten a backstory of Elsa before we saw this, I would have not related to the character more, but you know, I would have it would have differentiated her a little bit more. That's just that's but then again, this is just a short presentation. This isn't a feature film. Yeah, but even down to how the actress looks, even though the scene isn't on our screen right now, she has Jessica Jones vibe to her. She does, and it's hit me now for the first time. It's like Jessica Jones meets the supernatural. It's not horrible. I guess I'm okay with it though. Yeah, and I'm I'm okay with it for right now, but I would love to see if they ever do anything further with this. A little more of a maybe more of an homage to the comic version. Because I thought, is this literally what she's like? And so I looked it up. Apparently, the comic version of Elsa Bloodstone is she she prefers using guns than practic then than swords or the big axes she's wielding too. And she is a little more sexualized, but then again, that's the comic. So you can't always put that on. But I think with changing those two things and the way they changed them, they made her look more Jessica Jones-e. If they did a blend of both the comics and Jessica Jones, I think it would have made it a little more of her own lane uniqueness. Gotcha. So you don't have to do full-on comics sexuality with the guns, but you don't have to do full on Jessica Jones side.

SPEAKER_02 2:37:35

I mean, she just served well if she felt more like Laura Croft.

SPEAKER_04 2:37:39

Yes. Oh, yes. Perfect. That's a good blend. That's a good blend. Especially with the source material or the or the material, I mean. Yeah, that would have been excellent. So yeah, there you go. Take notes, Marvel. You do that, you've made this movie or this franchise, whatever you're gonna do with it better. Yeah, just take some cues from Tomb Raider. Yes. All right, so that's that's all I had to say about the first act. Yeah, me too. All right, I'll read the second act, guys. As Elsa and Jack investigate the Bloodstone estate, Elsa and Jack break a wall in the labyrinth so Man thing, aka Ted, can escape. Varessa, Veressa, uh Vera Wang, captures Jack and attempts to use the Bloodstone to force him into revealing his true nature. She believes the werewolf is a dangerous beast, but Elsa realizes Jack is different. They discover that Jack is actually the legendary werewolf by night, a man cursed with the ability to transform into a powerful werewolf under certain conditions. When Jack transforms, he becomes a terrifying but heroic creature with incredible strength and instincts. The werewolf escapes his restraints and unleashes his power, defeating Vera Wang's guards. After the werewolf flees, Varesa attempts to kill Elsa, but is stopped by Manthing and subsequently killed. Elsa takes control of the Bloodstone, proving that she is the rightful heir to the Bloodstone legacy. Yeah. I mean it's good. Yeah. I I would say my favorite scene of this is the transformation scene. Yeah. I love how they did it the old horror uh style with you not seeing it, seeing it, but you're seeing it through her eyes and how they stayed on her and she couldn't look away because of how terrifying it was. But you're seeing through the shadows and the silet silhouettes and all that what he looks like. And then he just looks cool. I love the practical effects of a werewolf. He's not CGI werewolf.

SPEAKER_02 2:39:32

Yeah, no, I I yeah, I I'm with you. I'm half there. I am very particular when it comes down to werewolves. That's one of my favorite uh um like folklore kind of things, anyways. I always thought it was unique, you know. I I like that idea that you turn into something that that becomes so dangerous and deadly and scary, and you can't control it. I've always liked that idea. And they talk about this a little bit in that where he's like, you know, keep looking at me so when I do turn, you know, that part of me that's in here won't forget, you know, because because he could, he's a accidentally killer, you know. You know, like and I think that I like that they acknowledge that there's still that edge to it. Yeah. Um he sniffs her. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:40:15

I'm like, what the heck is going on? He's like, just so I remember you, be like, okay.

SPEAKER_02 2:40:19

Yeah, like he's very aware of how out of control it can get. Uh and I enjoy that part of it. Yeah. And here's what I will say: if you can't do an awesome practical transformation, then this is textbook of how you should do it. I agree with you. Best scene of the movie is the transformation. You see it in the shadows, it's all she's selling how terrifying it is. And I think that that's that really is a highlight of this entire thing. Because if you just showed us this really cool CGI transformation, uh that's you lose me in that with the werewolves. I particularly am not gonna lie to you, I'm not gonna say they did anything wrong, and I'm and I know it's subjective too. I don't know if I like the look of him as a werewolf. I'm not sure. It's not bad, it's not the worst I've seen. It's I just meh, I can take or leave it. It's okay. I think it could have been tweaked a little bit better. I'm okay with it. I like that even in the fighting scenes where they do use a CGI, it's still kind of blurred out enough where it's not CGI in your face. So the fact that they're sticking practical saves them and makes me feel cooler about it. A lot of my favorite werewolf stuff is practical, Hollowing, yeah, uh uh American Werewolf in London, Dog Soldiers. I mean, even a new one called Werewolves with Frank Gorillo, they're all practical and they look great. And I'm like, if you're gonna do a werewolf, go practical because to me it just feels cooler. You know, and then yeah, every once in a while touch a CGI when you're doing something really unique. But some of these movies that do werewolves is just full on CGI. It's like yeah, it just looks bad, feels bad, you can tell it's fake. This does a good job making it look cool. I just don't know if I like the look of him once he is. I may be expecting more, maybe a little less. I'm not sure. I do like the transformation scene, though. With you, I'm with you on that. It's very good.

SPEAKER_04 2:42:00

Yeah, it's very well one of the things that I I think that plays well for this and how they did it is because they were so limited on whatever the budget is, because like like we said in our history, guys, we don't know how much it they spent to do this, and they obviously weren't doing this to make money, that's why they put it on Disney Plus. And they don't even have viewerships to back that up, too. So we don't know how this actually received, other than those critic scores and audience scores, which are very high for this. Yeah. Um, but I think being so limited in their budget to only do this as a special meant they had to be more creative with how they're gonna do it. And had this been a feature film, I feel like we would have unfortunately gotten a full CGI werewolf. Oh, yeah. And so I appreciate that they didn't do the all their CGI on him. Because I like you said, I maybe if this was a feature film, I would have still done this, but updated some more of his physical appearance, maybe through CGI, but not to the point where he's just full on CGI walking around green person, you know? Yeah, I agree. Um, but I do I do like how he looked as the werewolf because it's different than what I've seen before, but it's also shows how ferocious he still is, you know? And that practicality, I'm sure for the actors, they loved it because they don't have to look at the green screen, they look at an actual person all dialed up like that, you know.

SPEAKER_02 2:43:22

Kind of want to watch the behind-the-scenes documentary that they have. But they had a great time making it, at least for sure. You could tell they're having you could tell it's a movie you could have a lot of fun with, you know.

SPEAKER_04 2:43:32

Yeah. And I I think for a big time composer to be able to do this as his directorial debut, yeah, success. Bravo. Yeah, good job. Yeah, good kudos to Marvel for giving him this this opportunity. And it's a good way to do it too, because it's not detrimental to their big picture. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 2:43:48

So it's like if it sucks, it sucks. If it doesn't, then good job.

SPEAKER_04 2:43:50

But at the same time, like my hot take, had this been a feature film, how they did this exactly to a T, of course, add more time to it because the feature film needs maybe another hour or a half hour just to make a feature film. This would have been your intro to the supernatural far better than the other stuff we got. Yeah. Just saying.

SPEAKER_02 2:44:07

Yeah, I agree with that too. I agree with that take for sure.

SPEAKER_04 2:44:09

Anyways, um, let's see. I put that. I also put um I love that when uh Varessa is killed and she's thrown into the casket of Ulysses and his head rolls out. That was just that's a cool creative decision to do that there. I just thought that was kind of interesting and cool. Anyways, that's all I gotta say about that act.

SPEAKER_02 2:44:35

Sure, I'm gonna do act three. Here we go. Okay. After the battle, Jack returns to his human form and reveals that he and Ted are close buddies. Elsa chooses not to follow her family tradition of killing monsters and instead decides to redefine what the Bloodstone legacy means. Jack and Ted continue their journey while Elsa stays behind with the artifact and her new understanding of the supernatural world. The special ends with Jack and Ted walking through the woods, discussing their unusual friendship and their future adventures. So I'm mixed on this. Why I'm mixed on this is it makes me feel like this is the only semi-scary-ish version of what we're gonna get out of this because now it's now it's where now it's monsters and friends.

SPEAKER_00 2:45:21

Yeah. When I like this is my complaint with the movie is or with the special.

SPEAKER_02 2:45:31

I'm just calling it a movie guy. It's a it's a short mini movie. It's a mini movie. It's my complaint with the special, is it's like a one and done kind of thing that it should stay that way because I the thing that they did is they too much made them good while they're the monsters. I enjoy it's for me personally, I would have ch chosen the creative path for me would have been it's still very scary to be what these things are, and you can't quite trust them. Is it okay to go like her idea of instead of just murdering, let's figure out a different way, because obviously there's reasons why these are this, and we can we can help them maybe and we have compassion for the side of it that needs it, but I don't I don't care for the the ability to have the control of the beast. It this is like the Hulk argument in a way, where I don't mind Smart Hulk, and I think it works for the movie it's in. Um, but what makes the Hulk really appealing is that when he turns into it, he himself is afraid of what he's gonna do. And I think that that is what's very attractive about Rage Hulk, is it's not that people want to just see him destroy things, it's that you got a guy who cares a lot about humanity, very compassionate, has love stories with people that he cares about, but he knows when he turns green, he could destroy all that and not even not even know, or or know and not be able to do anything about it. I wish this had a little more of that element. See, I actually would have liked I well, I do see it, but I don't it ends though with you thinking, oh, it's always gonna be okay though. Man creatures is gonna be just a big buddy now and misunderstood. And I still would have liked her, I kind of would have preferred him turning into the werewolf and her still being in danger, like it not working the way he thinks. And it's just her being able to get out of the danger and turning him back. You know what I mean? Like, does that make sense? You know where I'm kind of going with it. The fact that he's able to recognize, I think, is a unique thing, and I I think it's kind of cool, but I don't I don't like this friendly monster thing. I think the monsters need to stay a little more you're st you might be the good guy, and I might be doing good things for you, but I could still kill you. Like we're not buddies, don't trust man thing. Don't trust him. But by the end of the movie, you do. Like you'd sit and have a beer with the thing. You know what I'm saying? Because if you're not a shit, he's not gonna kill you. And to me, that takes that scariness away. That's why at first this works, but now going forward, what's scary now? It's not scary anymore. Yeah, because now only bad guys are scared, not us too. Now we can't fear for our heroes because our werewolves and our monsters are gonna be buddies with them. And I think that needs to hold that with the they did a good job this time, this one time, but that's just it.

SPEAKER_04 2:48:41

It can't you can't do that trick again. Well, I think that that was part of their limitations of doing a show like this is that you had this been a fee feature film that was a half hour longer, you could have had a bigger antagonist type thing that is the actual creature. I agree with you. And then the storyline could have been similar to this, where not all creatures are bad, some are misunderstood, some don't actually want to be bad, but they turn into something that's bad. And then there are some that are just bad no matter what. And I think that would have been they made the villain be the stepmother, which is fine. She is a pretty nasty woman, but the the supernatural bad guys weren't really there like that.

SPEAKER_02 2:49:22

Yeah, and and I I I kind of like a story that it is like that bittersweet tragic in that sense, you know, where it's like man thing is we feel bad for him, obviously we like him, you know, there's a bigger reason why he's what he is. But it would have been neat though, if still at the end, it's like he's still not safe around it. You know? And most werewolf movies stick to that concept. In fact, the end of America Werewolf in London is he's cornered down in an alleyway, and the police are there to shoot him. And she's like, wait, wait, wait. You know, she knows it's Jack or the guy she loves, and she goes and she pleads with the werewolf. She goes, Jack, I know you're in there somewhere. And it kind of looks at her for a second and then it lunges to kill her, and they have to shoot him. Now, do I think that this needs to be that dark? No. But I but what I appreciate about that is you always have an element of the story that can stay scary. And this time it works because it's the introduction of them. But now, when we go forward, Mantane's never gonna be scary again to us. Yeah, he's just gonna look cool. Yeah, but he's never gonna be scary to us. He's good's cousin. You know, exactly, you know, and the same with the werewolf. As long as he likes you and he sniffs you before he turns, your bodies.

SPEAKER_04 2:50:36

It's not gonna hurt you. See, that that's the part that I think they took a gamble on with. I like the concept of him kind of already knowing what I have to do to try to protect the people I like, but I also like that he says to her, it doesn't always work. And so that made the suspense part when he did lunge on, jumped on her, and then he's sniffing her as she looks like she her face is about to get eaten. Then he decides to turn away. He does remember at least enough of a sense to say, I don't need to hurt her.

SPEAKER_02 2:51:05

You know, yeah, and I just think it would have served the story better if that didn't happen. If he was dangerous to her the whole time, too. And she just had to frantically also get him out of the curse, out of that as much as what was going on around. Just add that element to it, that makes to me makes it scary. Or and then you can do it again, and you can do it again, and you can do it again. Because no matter what, when he's a werewolf, he's not reliable. You know, it's kind of like the Hulk. It's like, hey, we need you to be the Hulk, even though you might do some shit you shouldn't.

SPEAKER_04 2:51:33

But the Hulk has a lot more of a sentiency to him, where even if he is full on Hulk and not Bruce, he recognizes when someone is helping him, like in the Avengers Age of Ultron and some of the other movies where he's he is Rage Hulk, but he's also like, I'm not killing everybody. Whereas werewolf, he should be killing everybody the best he could.

SPEAKER_02 2:51:54

I I would have liked it that it's a he's a weapon more than he is a and I think that that I don't know. I just feel like the sound is better. Maybe it's just my taste, I guess, because I'm it's not bad, but that is my problem with this, is I feel like, oh, this is a little you took a chance to make it scary and do these things and it's cool, but I just don't see them doing it again. And that I think that's where I I that's where I have a problem with where it's like this is a great one and done. Um, and maybe I should just I mean, there is no promise of more, so maybe I'm overthinking this, I guess. But when it ends on that kind of note, it does make me kind of realize, oh, okay. Mm-hmm. You know, I like things to be ambiguous. I like things to be like, we don't know it's like, hey, you know, we're still cool, you're awesome when you're not a werewolf, and we just gotta figure out a way that when you are a werewolf, how you don't tread me as well. Yeah. Because you're gonna if I'm not careful, you know. And yeah, I kind of wish the werewolf had that more. I I do agree with you. They tread the line, at least. Yeah. But by the end, it feels like werewolf and friends, you know what I mean? Yeah. And that's where it gets like, eh, how do you do that again? You're just not gonna, because we're never gonna believe it again, you know? Yeah. All right, so some of our deep dives, guys, best performance. I'm gonna give it to Gail Garcia and Bernal, or whatever. I think he that was somebody's having a great time out there.

SPEAKER_00 2:53:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:53:14

Um, I think he did a great job of when he was not the werewolf, very compassionate and nice. Yep. And then when he was, he's like we went all out and had a good time. And to me, that showed his range. Yep. So I gotta give it to him because that that's just a great range. Completely agree. Yep. All right, surprising performance. Uh Laura Darnell, the one who plays uh what's your face there? Oh, Elsa Blitzland. Yep. Um, although you have made me kind of now all I see is freaking Jessica Jones. I hate that I see that, but as I'm watching it, I'm like, But you're not wrong. You are you're right. Oh, although I I'm okay with it enough to deal with it. Why I'm gonna give it to her though, as well, is because I really think the best scene of the movie was my favorite part of the movie, and it's her reaction to interning is freaking awesome. She did performs it well, horror at its best. Because not seeing what she's seeing, but seeing the terror in her eyes, that's scary stuff. That's what you do. So they had got some good stuff, they got a lot of stuff right when they got it right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:54:16

So yeah. So I I put my most surprising performance as Harriet Samson Harris for Verossa uh Bloodstone. Um, but now that I know the backstory a little bit, it makes sense. It's one of the beautiful things about Marvel formulas, no matter what genre you're doing, you add a legacy actor or actress, and all of a sudden they gave they give a but it beyond expectation performance. So it makes sense then. The sniffing scene was just on.

SPEAKER_02 2:54:42

Like if he's a dog, shouldn't he be sniffing her butt? How do you get away with that though? He'd be just turn around. Like, what? Like, huh? I'm a dog. Like, what do you think? What how do dogs say hi? That might have to know each other.

SPEAKER_04 2:54:55

That might have towed the line from PG 13 to R that part. Anyways. Anyways, yeah, you're right. Sniffing wrists?

SPEAKER_02 2:55:03

That's vampires. Uh weakest performances. Um, I I actually give it to the villain woman. Oh, okay. I think she goes a little over the top. Okay. Um, not all the time, but towards the end, I'm sick of her. Yeah. I'm like, nope, this ain't working no more.

SPEAKER_04 2:55:19

Yeah. Um, I I gave my weakest performance to the hunters, the other ones, only because you don't really see too much of them. So I like you said before, I think it would have been better served if we were able, if this was a feature film, especially where they could do this, is you flushed out your opponents in the very beginning a lot more so. Maybe when she announces all their kills, you see a little montage of all the different ways they've killed someone, different people, and then you would have felt them more of a serious threat, and then you could see them more of a okay, this is how they're gonna battle type thing. Otherwise, it just felt like Hunger Games kid version, obviously. Yeah, yeah, good point. Yeah. All right. Um casting wins or misses.

unknown 2:55:59

Um

SPEAKER_02 2:56:00

I had no problems with any of the cast though, to be honest. I see the biggest win is the having I think the guy did a great job at the difference between human and werewolf. Yep. I agree. It really stood out to me how nice of a dude this guy is. You're all for him doing his thing. And then when he's a werewolf, you're like, geez, dude, chill out. You know what I mean? Like he's freaking out. Yeah, I like it. I like that. And any missed opportunities or what's the potential? I think we covered that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:56:23

This could have been longer. It could have been longer. And for character-wise, I think Elsa doing her more of a blend with the comic book. Laura Croft it. Yeah, Laura Croft is the best way to give it. I'm glad you said that, because that's exactly all right. Direction and production, guys. The first thing I'm going to say, because to me, this is usually the quickest spot for me. I loved everything about this. But I will say, no, if you notice the random blotches in the movie that make it look like old film that's either being torn or normal wear and tear damage, I love those touches to it. Great creative choice. Yep. And I think this would be great homage to past horror films. So I like that. So, anyways.

SPEAKER_02 2:57:02

Yeah, I can't. I can't say I I completely agree. We've touched on the visual effects and how we feel. The lack of CGI helps it a lot. Um, I like the black and white elements of it, and when they decide to put colors sometimes, because even the black and white, because this is the color version it's on right now, right? Yeah. Yeah, but in the black and white, that's still red. Did you know that? Did you watch the colour? Oh, really? I didn't know that. Yeah, there's moments in it where they decide to keep the like the colors so that it's coming out of that stone is still red in the black and white. Oh, I think it's very smart and unique to do that.

SPEAKER_04 2:57:32

That is cool.

SPEAKER_02 2:57:33

Um and once again, what a great first-time director chance. This is a win for him. He should take it as a win for sure.

SPEAKER_04 2:57:41

Yeah. Um yeah. All right. So you guys already heard of my hot take. Uh, do you have a hot take? No. Oh. All right. Uh, quick fire questions, answer fast, don't overthink. Best scene in the movie. Transformation. On our screen right now, the transformation. Yep. Really well done. Yeah, I agree. Uh, least best scene.

SPEAKER_02 2:58:01

I don't want to struggle with this one.

SPEAKER_04 2:58:03

I was I would say my least best scene is when they first captured Jack and whole Verossa's speech and all that stuff. Like that. I feel like at that moment. That's where it fent too far. It could have been merged with the beginning of him turning into a werewolf scene. Better.

SPEAKER_02 2:58:17

Yep. That was that was the one that's on the tip of my tongue, or at least what I was thinking of doing. So I'm gonna go with the same. That's where it felt, okay. This is a little too campy. Yes. Yeah. You can do the homage without going full on. Yep. And they kind of went full on for a minute, and I was like, meh. Yeah. Then you could have backed off. That could have been altered, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:58:36

Uh, best villain moment I put was her death. Yeah, thank God. Right. Yeah, I just liked how they killed her kind of thing. It was a surprise.

SPEAKER_02 2:58:43

I'm gonna count the werewolf as a villain just for the hell of it, just for fun. Oh, because I like him tearing the crap out of the guards. I completely agree. That's the case, definitely. Yes. Yeah. But for her, yeah, her death, because I just don't want to listen to her anymore.

SPEAKER_04 2:58:56

Yeah. One prop you take home. That guy's axe is awesome. That is cool. I can see that hanging on the wall. I'll take the axe. Well, yeah. I put the bloodstone because I thought that's a cool gem. Yep, I agree. Most underrated moment. So I'm gonna say what mine is. Uh I'll read exactly what I put here. The explanation of the supernatural world in the beginning, I think, is the most underrated moment because for some reason Marvel is struggling to do it in main MCU, and they already did it in this special, and they just don't realize that this is all we ask. This is enough. They explained hints of the supernatural. That looks so cool to me. Anyways, um, it's the werewolf, first time you're seeing him on screen. But the the explaining Mormon knows. Yeah. But explaining the supernatural world in the beginning, and especially that opening montage of differentiating between the Avengers and what's going on underneath the surface. That's what I'm that is all you needed. And I put that as underrated because they anyone online that's saying, I don't think they know how to do Blade. Yes, you do. You have it on Disney Plus right now that's free for you to watch.

SPEAKER_02 3:00:04

So come on. Yeah. I actually put it as underrated for the fact that this is how you do a Disney Plus show that has no tie-in to the movies. But if you wanted to, you could later. Oh yes. Like they could just easily say, but let's just go ahead and bring it in. Yeah. They didn't contradict themselves at all because of the beginning.

SPEAKER_04 3:00:20

And they didn't do an original.

SPEAKER_02 3:00:22

So I just have a different take on it.

SPEAKER_04 3:00:23

This is this is like you said, this is a great example of what Disney Plus shows are supposed to be like or specials. Because you didn't have to do full origin of them. We could get Elsa Bloodstone in a future movie, and you don't have to know this in order to watch her because you didn't have to know her here in order to watch her. Right. So, anyways. But you can borrow from your own stuff if you do it right. Yes, exactly. Yes. All right. Um, I also added here that the um is should this be there or another spot? No, I'll just put it here real quick, just to touch on it. The whole society, I don't think, is evil. These are monster hunters, and their whole point is to rid the world of these supernatural elements that are terrorizing the rest of humans. It just so happens that we don't like the stepmother that's in charge of the whole thing.

SPEAKER_02 3:01:07

But that's my also that's part of the argument I had before is these things don't seem as terrorizing as they are claiming. Yeah. And it's like, oh, you're all not smart enough to realize, oh poor guy. So they should have been scarier and stayed that way. I agree. That's so that's all right. Overrated moment. Oh, the her speech is what I put down is I put that in its two spots because I could have turned this off at that point. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 3:01:36

So I I hear you there. I'll agree to that. Funniest moment. I will say there are hints of humor throughout the film, but nothing that really sticks out to me.

SPEAKER_02 3:01:45

Yeah, this is blank, guys.

SPEAKER_04 3:01:47

I yeah, I I don't think I laughed once. The only time I chuckled was when Elsa said, Maybe you can find a up your arse. And and then that's when they cut her off. I'm like, okay, that that's funny, but also that's the first time it reminded me of Jessica Jones. Because I'm like, that's what she would have said.

SPEAKER_02 3:02:01

Yeah, I'm gonna have to. Anyways, I'm gonna have to say this this movie might lack in a couple moments that could have been funnier.

SPEAKER_00 3:02:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:02:08

Or fun.

SPEAKER_00 3:02:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:02:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:02:10

I'm gonna have to stick with that answer. Uh most emotional moment. I mean, this this is stuff with Ted with Ted Isbe. You know, you do feel between them two. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 3:02:24

Yeah. Yeah. I want to give something a man thing.

SPEAKER_04 3:02:28

I I agree to that. I think that's good. I put Jack smelling Elsa because for me it was she's like, what the heck are you doing, man? But his emotion is I don't I know what's about to happen and I don't want you to die.

SPEAKER_02 3:02:42

Yeah, I dig that.

SPEAKER_04 3:02:43

So that to me, for him, even though he wasn't outward crying or sobbing or anything, but that was his way of doing everything he can to make sure she doesn't get hurt when he does eventually transform. So I that is the only emotional time really in this whole movie. There's not a lot of moments of like heavy emotion in this. It's because it's cut short. It's a short.

SPEAKER_02 3:03:02

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Good point.

SPEAKER_04 3:03:03

All right.

SPEAKER_02 3:03:04

So uh final scores, guys. You think they'd still do it. They did nothing, but I mean, if Punisher wasn't killing somebody and it's Punisher one, he was crying. He's just crying or killing. Anyways. All right. Uh story out of two for you. Uh I g I give the story a two. I like the story. I think it's there. I agree. I gave it a two. Uh characters and visuals.

SPEAKER_04 3:03:23

That's that's gonna be a 0.5. Okay. I give it a one. Um, action and visuals. That that's a that's a 1.5. Okay, I gave that a two. Uh emuls and stakes. That's a 0.5. That's a 0.5 for me as well, actually.

SPEAKER_02 3:03:35

Rewatchability and MCU impact. Doesn't it doesn't impact the MCU at all, so it's gotta be a big old zero on that. And I gotta be honest with you, I don't need to ever watch this again. Hmm.

SPEAKER_04 3:03:45

So I can see myself every Halloween turning this on because it's short enough, but it's not like unbearable to watch or anything. So I gave it a one out of two.

SPEAKER_02 3:03:55

In cable terms, if I was going through the channels and this was on, I wouldn't change it, so I'll give it a 0.5.

SPEAKER_04 3:04:02

Okay. All right, your final score. Four out of ten.

SPEAKER_02 3:04:05

Ooh. Okay. I wasn't a fan of it in general. Okay. I just I'm very positive about it, and I'll tell you why.

SPEAKER_00 3:04:14

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 3:04:15

Because this is what the Disney Plus shows should be. Whether I think it's good or not, this is exactly what they should be. So that's why I'm optimistically like that's why I'm positive about talking about it, because I'd rather rate these for what they are like this, and not the ones that confuse us or let us down. This had no expectations. Yeah. I'll give it that. Um, but if I'm looking at it as that, it's still for me a four. I'm very particular about my horror and how you do it. And this just, like I said, by the end, I'm just like, this just didn't set for me. You know, if if you asked me did ending land, I'd say no. I don't think it's earned. I don't think it feels like there's more to this scenario than what we just got that's gonna feel like this ever again. And I think they kind of shot themselves in the foot for that. They sh they should have just they should have took the chance and went a little darker. Okay. I think that's that that it would have been a seven if they did that. Okay. But it's just like I said, by the end, I'm just like, oh, werewolf and friends now. Yeah so neck the next one they do if they ever do it. There's all that suspense has just been wasted in in a 45-minute show and not something you could have drawn out longer.

SPEAKER_00 3:05:36

So that's my biggest problem. Okay, all right, I hear ya. I hear you. So I gave it a seven.

SPEAKER_04 3:05:44

So our multiverse score for this guy's is a 5.5 out of 10. Which, if you think about it, look at the poster, it kind of fits. Yeah. Because it's not outstanding. The only reason I went down low is one, they have to change take out some of the Jessica Jones-ness of it. That was a big thing for me. Well, as I'm watching it, it was harder for me as I'm watching it to differentiate between the two. And I wish they did that. But that really is a big deal for me because not like I'm a Jessica Jones fan, it's just I don't want to watch two of the same characters, and that's what I felt like they accidentally did in here, and not realizing it maybe. And then the other part is it um I do wish it was more of a feature film and it went darker. I agree with that part. Yeah, but other than that, all the other tropes are there, and I liked it.

SPEAKER_02 3:06:32

Yeah, and and uh it actually with the score that we have as an average. I think that's the best way to describe this movie and that that one liner at the end we have here. Yep is this is Marvel at its best mid.

SPEAKER_00 3:06:46

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 3:06:47

It's good. Yeah, watch it. You're not wasting your time. By never watching again though. But yeah, I think you're either really gonna, really, really gonna love this, or you're gonna be like, it's alright. I mean, the effects are awesome though. I love man's thing. I would like a statue of him. He's cool.

SPEAKER_04 3:07:04

So he is cool, yeah. I see that's why I would love if he was in a feature film because he uh I could see a kid these three characters, plus a blade and a ghostwriter, and uh um Moon Knight and a Black Knight right there. Throw all of them into there, have your supernatural Avengers in a movie like this extended by a half hour, make Blade the team leader, along with Elsa, because obviously she has from a lineage of supernatural hunting. I think that would be a pretty cool film. I really dig that. I might even make a mirror dimension episode about how this should have been a movie, and this is what I would have done.

SPEAKER_02 3:07:40

Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_04 3:07:41

Yeah, all right, guys. Comment down below, let us know what you would rate this and what your thoughts are, and what are we swinging into next?

SPEAKER_02 3:07:47

Next, we're swinging right into our retrospective of Spider-Man Homecoming. Oh boy. First MCU Spider-Man movie. Boy, we got some stuff to say. All right, take off. All right, guys, welcome to our segment, our retrospective of the week. We are on Spider-Man Homecoming. Very excited. So, what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna give you a quick little history of Spider-Man being made and what how it came to be. Samuel do a synopsis, synopsis, and I'll read uh act one and we'll start talking about this sucker because there's there's some stuff to get into. All right. I might we had a little snafu with our paperwork. I might have you read the acts because I don't, other than the one, I think we've messed up on one of them. I think act three is the one that I had messed up that day. Yeah, so when we get that, I'll just read act three. So then I'll we'll just make sure you do act three when so why don't you start with act one? I'll do two and then see so it's natural. Okay. So we will go for there. So here we go, guys. A little history of this guy, though, okay. So movie Spider-Man Homecoming, first MCU Spider-Man movie, main cast, Tom Holland, Jacob, Batalin, right? Zendaya. She doesn't have a last name, does she? Madonna and all that crap. Anyways, Marissa Tomei, John Favreau, Michael Keaton, or Robert Dunney Jr. History behind the film, the development of Spider-Man Homecoming was one of the most important collaborations in Marvel Studios history because it marked the return of Spider-Man to the large MCU after years of existing separately under Sony's film universe. For decades, Sony Pictures Entertainment controlled the film rights to Spider-Man, and after the mixed reception of the amazing Spider-Man 2, Sony began exploring ways to revitalize the character. In 2015, Sony and the Walt Disney Company reached a historic agreement allowing Spider-Man to appear in the MCMU while Sony continued to finance, distribute, and retain the majority of profits from standalone Spider-Man films. Under the deal, Marvel Oops, under the deal, Marvel Studios would creatively guide Spider-Man's MCU appearance with Kevin Feige and his team helping develop the character. While Sony remained the official owner of the film rights, Marvel could use Spider-Man in MCU crossover films. And Sony would release the solo Spider-Man movies, solo Spider-Man movies through its own distribu distribution system. This arrangement allowed Marvel to integrate Peter Parker into the universe without purchasing the character rights, creating a partnership that had previously seemed impossible. I wonder how much they would have wanted for him. They're probably just like, what do you got? Everything.

SPEAKER_04 3:10:37

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's their biggest moneymaker, from my understanding.

SPEAKER_02 3:10:41

It's just it still proves to be. By the time Spider-Man Homecoming entered production in 2016, the MCU was at a major turning point. The franchise had completed phase two. It was moving deeper into phase three, following Captain America's Civil War, which introduced Tom Holland as the new Peter Parker. Rather than retelling Spider-Man's origin story for a third time, Marvel chose to introduce a younger Peter who was already a hero but still learning how to handle responsibility. Holland was only 19 when he debuted as Spider-Man and was selected because Marvel wanted someone who felt like an authentic teenager. At the time, he was relatively unknown compared to previous Spider-Man actors, but impressed Marvel with his athletic ability, useful energy, and emotional range. Robert Dyne Jr. returned as Tony Stark Iron Man, serving as a mentor figure and connecting Spider-Man directly to the Avengers. Zendaya joined as Michelle Jones, or MJ. Jacob Betung played Ned Leeds, and Marissa Tomei portrayed a younger, more modern version of Aunt May. Director John Watts, who was relatively inexperienced with large blockbusters, was chosen because Marvel liked his similar scale character, his smaller scale character work, and his vision of making the movie feel like a John Hughes-style coming of age story mixed with superhero action. One of Marvel's biggest creative decisions was choosing the Vulture as the villain. Instead of using another world-ending threat, Marvel wanted Peter's first solo MCU adventure to feel grounded and personal. Michael Keaton was cast as Adrian Toombs, a blue-collar worker who becomes a villain vulture after losing his livelihood when the government at damage control take control of alien technology left behind after the Battle of New York. This connected Spider-Man directly to the consequences of previous MCU events, especially the Avengers, while creating a villain whose motivations were understandable rather than purely evil. Marvel also wanted to avoid repeating the mistakes of previous Spider-Man films, but not focusing on Peter's origin. Uncle Ben's death or making him immediately the strongest hero in the room. Instead, the story centered on Peter proving himself and learning that being a hero is about more than having advanced technology or impressing the Avengers. Filming took place in Atlanta, which they all do now, I think. Atlanta pretty much owns MCU. Used to and now. Oh, yeah, that's right. I forgot. Um, in New York in 2016, with Marvel emphasizing a smaller, more personal scale compared to other MCU films. Fun behind-the-scenes details include Tom Holland performing many of his own stunts due to his gymnastics background, including the iconic Washington monument sequence, and Marvel creating a Spider-Man suit that intentionally resembled Tony Stark's technology while still keeping Peter's homemade hero identity. The film also included a major shift in Spider-Man's supporting world, replacing many traditional elements with more diverse modern high school environment. Another important aspect of production was carefully balancing Sony's expectations with Marvel's creative direction, as this was the first time the two studios had to share control over a major franchise character. When Spider-Man Homecoming was released in 2017, it was a major success, earning approximately 92% on Rotten Tomatoes from critics and around 87% from audiences. Critics prayed Tom Holland's performance, the humor, the high school setting, Michael Keaton's villain, and the film's ability to make Spider-Man feel fresh again. Financially, it grossed approximately 880 million worldwide against the production budget estimated around 175 million. The movie successfully integrated Spider-Man into the MCU, proving that the collaboration between Marvel Studios and Sony could work. More importantly, it redefined Peter Parker's place in the MCU by making him not just a separate hero who occasionally interacts with the Avengers, but an important part of the larger universe leading into Avengers, Infinity War, Avengers Endgame, and the future of Marvel's storytelling.

SPEAKER_04 3:14:51

Yes. Perfect. Crazy cool. Honestly.

SPEAKER_02 3:14:55

They succeeded at all they tried to do, too.

SPEAKER_04 3:14:57

Yes. Truthfully. And I, you know, it shocks me is the budget is that little. 175 million. Which it's not little, but for a Marvel movie. And then it makes almost 900 million.

SPEAKER_02 3:15:09

You gotta think half of that went to Robert alone.

SPEAKER_04 3:15:12

Right? Poor Tom got 1 million of that. But, anyways, um, so the official synopsis, guys. Peter Parker tries to stop Adrian the Vulture Tombs from selling weapons made with advanced shatari. Um, oh, I forgot shatari, I forgot that word. Technology, while trying to balance his life as an ordinary high school student. Simple, but pretty pretty good. Yep. All right, so I'll read the first act. Um after the events of the Avengers, Adrian Tombs and his crew attempt to salvage the wreckage caused by the invasion when the newly established Department of Damage Control steals his thunder. This forces Adrian to begin operating in the black market to make ends meet with the items he already collected. Fast forward to after the events of Captain America's Civil War, Peter Parker is eager to prove himself to be capable of being a full-time avenger to Tony Stark, but is constantly ignored and dismissed. Living a double life as a high school student and Spider-Man, Peter struggles with balancing school, friendship, and crime fighting. While investigating alien weapons trafficking, Peter discovers that the criminals and crime fighting are criminals and using salvage shatari tech from the battle of New York. Um this forces him to attend and initially reject his school field trip to Washington, DC, so he could potentially discover Tombslayer after after Anne. Okay, that sentence does not finish off for me here. Did I miss I missed the page? Is it after an incident at the Washington Monument?

SPEAKER_00 3:16:51

Yeah, I don't have that page on here. Oh no, guys. Okay. What'd you done did? Alright, um I'll finish it for you.

SPEAKER_02 3:17:01

Yeah, finish it. After an incident at the Washington Monument, Peter is more determined to stop Toons and his crew at all costs. Right?

SPEAKER_04 3:17:08

Yep, that's that's right. My form literally skips all of Act 2. Oh no. I don't know what I did. Anyways, I'm the thief. Oh, oh, I flipped it on the wrong page. Anyway, so there it is. It's just my page numbers were off, guys. Sorry about that. So, what worked for you?

SPEAKER_02 3:17:26

So, first of all, tying the into the uh MCU, they did brilliantly. Wow. Right off the bat, it's the wreckage of uh New York City of Avengers One. And then right after that, it's these home videos of Civil War. So I just I think that it serves this movie right by putting it in the MCU like that that tight. It really works for me a lot big time. I agree. Um, there's a lot of little things to talk about here.

SPEAKER_04 3:17:58

I would say before you do. That that that what you just described, that's my stand-up moment, too. Oh, it's your stand-up moment. Yes, there's a lot of cool things in here, and I'm sure you're about to dive into them. But when I had to retrospectively think of just this whole first act, which was there's a lot in it, but my favorite part of this first act literally is being able to successfully integrate him to the MCU and feel natural. And I think that that that whole beginning part, I loved revisiting some of the that battle a little bit, the aftermath of it. I think that stuff was cool.

SPEAKER_02 3:18:31

Yeah, I do. I love I think it's I think it's smart. Yes. Because you know what you know, it's funny, you don't ever think about that side of things. Yep. Well, who cleans this shit up? But oh yeah, guys like this guy. And I put Tony creates yet another villain for Peter to fight. I don't know. How many villains does Tony have to make? It does you're not helping your case, Tony, about being a hero. I should have added, I should have added that into my argument for him being a bad guy. There you go, right? The guys he's created, right? Yeah. Geez, Tony.

SPEAKER_04 3:18:59

Anyway, so so the little things that worked for you in the first act.

SPEAKER_02 3:19:03

Um, I think the chemistry between the actor who plays Ned and Tom is excellent. I think they're real good together. They're very funny. I enjoy those moments. I like the there's a lot of little just snarky moments in this. Um for I actually was worried when I watched this again that I thought maybe because of how old I am, I thought the high school aspect of it was gonna make me feel I've aged this movie a little. But the humor in the way it's set up is so meta that it's not is for all of us adults. Anyone that likes Spider-Man is gonna like this. And it doesn't matter how old you are. It doesn't do the Harry Potter thing where you feel like, oh, it's all I gotta be a teenager like this. No, you laugh at all these things because it's it's all these wink and nods, you know what I'm saying? And I and I I like that a lot. Um I do, I do think they nail the high school vibe. I think this does feel like a John Hughes movie, and I think that's the best way to go with Spider-Man, make it feel like have a younger generation's gonna latch right onto this. I think that really is awesome.

SPEAKER_00 3:20:07

Um yeah.

SPEAKER_04 3:20:12

I I will say to that, I personally was went to a private school growing up, so I wasn't a private high school. It was smaller, it wasn't like your big typical public high school and big things like that. But when I was watching this retrospective for the first time uh with my friend, he said that this is exactly the same vibes he got when he was in high school when he watched this movie. So they nailed that to a T for this, at least. Awesome. So that that's pretty cool to hear that from firsthand experience of someone, you know. Anyways.

SPEAKER_02 3:20:39

Yeah, let's talk about the villain for a second because I gotta tell you, I like this idea of making it very grounded, and you you understand why he's angry and what gets him mad. Clearly, he's got a personality that that uh erupts because he punches a guy, he you know, he's but the guy gave him a good reason to punch. Perfect punchable face, except he punches him. So he gets excluded for me. Yeah. Even though, man, it dude that dude needs it, and then he does, and it's like, damn, I forgot he hits him. So yeah, it's uh so that works well. I will tell you this though. Um I know more best villain moments are gonna be when he just kills one of his insubordinates to show that he's he means business. Because this one is a cool way that he kills this guy. And it's kind of funny because he didn't realize it was gonna do. Yeah. And the guy dies, and like whoa, you know what I mean? Like, but I have to say, at this point, it's now become the NC MCU trope to do that. To now, if you want to show us how bad your baddie is, it can't be him killing his friends anymore or just random beef. It's gotta be moments, it's gotta be something that sticks out more for me. You don't have to go that direction. You can you can use those for your favorite best villain moments because some people say it shows just how far you'll go. No, it to me now we're to the point, you've done it so many times in other movies that that's old. They created a trope and we've done so well in the MCU that they've made that trope old.

unknown 3:22:11

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 3:22:11

So now I'm all blah blah blah.

SPEAKER_04 3:22:13

He's gonna kill the guy because he's gonna get snot into that's not one of my favorite villain moments, but the only thing that I will say about that character trope, which I completely agree, at this point, now we've seen two other movies that do this at least, and each one has been like eh, and now you see it again. The only reason this one works is he didn't do it intentionally to do it. Yeah, that's that's the only part. He it it turned into a slight joke in the midst of doing it, whereas the other ones they did it to prove a point. He only was just trying to stop him from leaving. Yeah. No, and I'm with you. And I well, and then the guy's threatened to tell people stuff.

SPEAKER_02 3:22:46

I mean, he probably would have let him leave if well, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 3:22:48

He probably would have put him in a cell of some kind there. He would have done a villainy thing, but I don't think his intention I don't think it was to kill him.

SPEAKER_02 3:22:55

He would have let him leave. I have a hot take about this villain. Okay. Later. All right. Well, I'll I'll explain it as we go. I don't think he's as bad as you think. I just think he's desperate. Yes. I and there's a difference between that. But as soon as that guy said to him, I know too much, that's when he's like, shit. And I don't think he was faking that. I think that was a real emotion. That was a realization of I can't just I can't just let him go because he's gonna compromise everything I'm doing. And then yeah, he committed to it because, like he tells Peter later, that's what I'll do for my family. Yeah. So you're kind of like, yeah, duh, I would too. You're right. So I I do think he's honest. I mean, that's I think that's what saves this feeling, though. So because it could, if he wasn't, he just was a mean guy, it'd be different. But I think the meanness we're seeing is a guy that's made a choice and he's sticking to it, which is also brings me to my hot take at the end of the movie of what he really is intentions are towards the end. So, but either way, we'll get there because I think you'll like what I got to say about it. Um, but the only thing I'm saying is they can continue to do this thing where the villain does kill people and do that, it's cool, but it's no longer for me in the running for their best moment because it's used too much. Okay. Does that make sense? That makes sense. Yeah, so I'm okay with it. It works for this, for the joke, too, actually, because it is kind of oh it's a dark kind of joke. But like, no more though, will that be their best moment? You gotta do better, you can do better, you know what I mean? Which they do. So I'm not complaining, you know, because you gotta think of Quentin Beck in the next Spider-Man movie. He doesn't do that, he does some great moments. We'll get there when we get there. Um, yeah, so that's all I want to talk about with the villain for that for now. I love the I like that he's there. I believe his situation. I'm all in for that stuff. Um, I think we should talk about the monument scene for a second. I've liked that he Oh, one of the other things I like is I like that he's learning this suit. This to me is the equivalent of them in the workshop trying to build something. Yep. And man, it's just addictive and it's fun to watch, and it's funny. The suit stuff in this is funny, which brings me to my standout moment. Is this is I like the whole sequence where he's locked in the vault. It's fantastic. Okay. Because he's just like talking to her and getting to know her name. He's just like hanging in the hand. He's like doing all the different weapons, and then how long have I been here? And she's like, 35 minutes. He goes, What? I just I just like it's funny, but it's just a great moment of the movie that makes me go. This movie can literally take 10 minutes and have nothing to do with the progression of the story, and does not take away from the movie at all. And in fact, heightens the the the uh this something this movie does well is it takes moments that have nothing to do with the story, specifically this vault one. The only thing it has to do with it is that he got trapped in there, right? But like you got 10 minutes of like you could be doing story progression here of characters or whatever, and it's like it doesn't matter, it doesn't hurt this movie at all. In fact, it adds to that moment of the movie. I had forgot how long that moment went on, and I enjoyed it very much. So to me, that's just a standout moment that they took the risk to let's play this joke out a little longer, and in this moment we'll use some exposition about the suit and about this, and then it then it actually leads to my favorite thing about this moment is Peter smarts is what gets him out of there, and not him being a superhero and superpowered and all this other stuff. Him doing all those codes and figuring out to get out of there, that's him being Peter. That's like the Peter Parker stuff that some people say Tom doesn't do a lot, but he does it right in that scene. It's Spider-Man doesn't get him out of there. His webs or his powers don't get him out of there, his mind got him out of there. And I think that not only does it build this character to him being more than the suit, right? But it also speaks to cool, we have a smart Peter. This Peter's a genius. All the time he's showing it, all the time. Um, and all the decisions. So I like that about I think that points that out, which is why I put that in there. Um yeah. I mean, other than the other stuff in the minus, the minus scene's fun. It's good.

SPEAKER_00 3:27:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:27:15

It's not the scene that blows me away. It is iconic though. I like that he's never been that high. Which makes you wonder in the city, why does he not climb the buildings? He's just kind of thinking maybe not. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, but it shows the usefulness and how early on he is as Spider-Man. Yeah. What doesn't work for me in this is sometimes it's like a train with slow breaks. I'm not a fan of as things are going, it gets a little cookie-cutter. Certain moments start to feel that way, but then they're just like, but here's how we're doing it different. And I'm glad they do that. And I know it shouldn't sound like a negative, but I will say sometimes the roller coaster that makes me feel is this on purpose or is it not? And I'm not sure if it's genius, it feels less like it's not, it's just more like it's not genius. It feels more like they have good ideas and they prolong things to get there, and then they get there. And it works when once they get there. But the getting there is tough.

SPEAKER_00 3:28:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:28:23

And some of that is the villain stuff in this. Not that I don't like this villain, and I'm not complaining about the villain, but it's pretty average, like, not very compelling. Really. And we'll talk about that when we get into act two more. You know, it's like you we got his motivations, we got what's going on. After that, a lot of the villain scenes are pretty cheesy and like, okay, we get it, we get it, we get it. Not his acting and not what's being said, but particularly who's around him. I really feel like you didn't even need to see Vulture again for quite a while. Because we just had to keep reminding us that he's there. I don't know if that makes any sense or not. It I honestly it slows in moments for me, and then when it picks up, it's good, but there's moments where I feel like okay, get back, get back, get back. Yes.

SPEAKER_04 3:29:10

Everything that you said is exactly how I felt about this first act. Yeah. Yeah, actually, I'm trying to think if there was anything different I would have said that there are times where I thought that that's him being trapped in that holding cell area scene. I thought it was gonna drag on a little too long, but they filled it with useful stuff where that easily could have been, okay, this is a drag of the movie, but it didn't. It didn't turn into that. Um, and I yeah, I I liked it all. I agree. I agree with everything you said, honestly, about it. And I thought your analogy of the train with the um slow, slow brakes, yeah, that's a great analogy for this.

SPEAKER_02 3:29:54

It almost comes to like a a stop, and then we're going again. It's okay, good, good, good. And it's like, okay, we got you again, you know. And yeah, and it just feels that way sometimes. And it's almost like there's like five minutes here and there I could go without. But yet the stuff that comes right after that five minutes, I love. So, you know, um, standout things in this, other than that, is I kind of I don't know if this is part of it, it's not part of it, too. I like that Ned finds out that he's Spider-Man. I think that's smart. Because the guy in the chair is a great joke that's on. I liked that a lot. Um, but that I just reminded me of that when I looked over because it's on that scene. So I think that's real smart. I like they drops the whole Lego, so cheese maybe we're gonna have for a while. Yeah, exactly. That was pretty in depth, yeah. It's like and then just like can't believe it.

SPEAKER_04 3:30:46

Yeah, I agree. That's really cool. All right, so um what's the score you'd give backwards? I'd give it nine out of ten, though. Because the stuff in it that is is great. Yeah. But that's a good that's a good score. I gave it an eight out of ten. Ooh. So okay. All right spicy. All right, guys. So uh let's see.

SPEAKER_02 3:31:02

Um, you're redact two. Yes. So act two, Peter begins uh over Peter becomes overconfident and tries to act like a full Avenger, but his inexperience causes him to fail repeatedly. After a botched attempt to stop Toomes on a New York City ferry, he is stripped of his advanced start suit and by Tony, forcing him to rely on his homemade suit. Meanwhile, Peter discovers that Toomes is actually the father of his classmate, Liz, complicating his moral choices. Tooms continues stealing alien attack and upgrades his vulture suit, becoming a serious threat. Peter's forced to confront what it really means to be a hero without relying on advanced technology. All right.

SPEAKER_04 3:31:42

Well, I'm gonna say what works for me, that there's two scenes in particular that work for me the most. Actually, three. Sorry, three scenes that work for most. I like the fairy scene because I think it's a little bit of an homage to Spider-Man 2 of how he tries to put the fairy together, but also shows and maybe this is not the right way to say it, but Peter is right in most of this, and it's the arrogance of Tony, but also Tony is right in letting this become Peter's whole thing of trying to prove himself to the point where he's misusing the suit. So it's this it's this weird, weird uh, I don't know how to say it, roller coaster of a of who who's to blame, who's not the blame type thing. Because there's a little bit of both to go along with, but I love that scene between Tony and Peter of um him saying, If if all you are is a suit, then you don't deserve the suit. That was that's a great teaching moment because that comes from personal experience of Tony himself, and he's and he says that to him. I want you to be better than who I am, because he all Peter is saying is I want to be just like you. And he says, That's the thing. I want you to be better than me.

SPEAKER_00 3:33:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 3:33:00

So therefore, you're not supposed to have the suit. That was a really cool moment. That was a really good moment. And this is still the scene, uh, or this the same act where we'll talk about probably the best scene of the movie, probably, um, is the car scene.

SPEAKER_02 3:33:16

Yeah, I'm gonna save a lot to talk about for that later. Okay. All right. I I gonna be honest with you, I purposely didn't put this uh talk about this in this act because it's later for me. Okay. That's fine.

SPEAKER_04 3:33:28

We'll get talk about later then just uh have the whole thing on that and that topic. But I did those three scenes I do like in this in this act. Um, there is not a lot, honestly, that doesn't work for me. I I had a hard time picking a specific thing that didn't work for me. So maybe do you want to fill in that blank there?

SPEAKER_00 3:33:48

Or what did you like, I should say? Um swelled wrong that last one, guys. Apologize.

SPEAKER_02 3:33:55

Um so I want to piggyback off what you said with to me, the the best character moment I'm gonna pick for Act Two is that with Tony and Peter about the whole you shouldn't have the suit, blah, blah, blah, if you're gaming, it's gotta be more than a suit thing. And you you nailed it right on the head about how he's right, but he's right, and he's wrong, and he's wrong at the same time. What it actually is, if you really look at it, is it's the perfect mirror image of what being a parent is. And so when Tony does say, I sound like my father, it's like because even if he wouldn't want to be the worst versions of his dad, he still is gonna be like his dad. And like where a teenager feels like this is important to me, it is important. And a lot of parents have had to learn to pay attention and caress and kind of take things that aren't that important and treat them like they are because to that teenager it is. Like, you know, when a kid loses has their first breakup, we know as adults, you're gonna get over this, it's gonna happen again, but you will be fine. But do they feel like that right then and there? They don't. And you can't change that. So where Peter's right that these people are more dangerous, Tony's like a bad father, or not bad father, but like a typical father, ignoring that importance of it, which reminds him of himself at the same time, even without knowing that there's still something important going on, what Peter's talking about. Because Tony's right, you can't rely on this stuff, you gotta be better at this. And that's what off pop stop crying. You will meet another boy, you'll meet another girl. It's the same thing, it's the same conversation. We're just talking about heroes and villains now. And it's it's perfect in that. I think it's great. What a great mirror that is, right? And I think I think that that's the smartness in this writing that makes it feel like a John Hughes film, and that that's what Watts gets right, you know, is this kind of stuff. Um also uh the uh escalation of events in it, like the movie has fun. I like that it's like low-level investigating from Peter's part. It's like whenever we do have the villains or through Peter's eyes, it's him getting a clue, then going here, then another clue, and then seeing the guy here, and then showing up here. And I like that because it's like we're with Peter all the time with that, and that's what's fun, you know. And I think that that plays well into who he's that's honing his ability to do this stuff, and you know, going to interrogation mode is funny. Like this moments of it, it's like these are cool things that you don't need to put in here, but they work real well. Sounds like the Batman a little bit. Yeah, yeah. Anyways, the dark night there.

SPEAKER_00 3:36:44

Alright. Um, let's see.

SPEAKER_02 3:36:48

What did I put here for the I what I'm gonna say, I'm I'm dodging around things I want to say for later, but we're gonna talk about after that major villain moment that we're really gonna talk about. One thing that happened in this movie that fixed the pacing for me from the first part, which is why for when it says did pacing hold up, I'm gonna say it got better. Yeah. Because I like that at a certain point, like after this fairy scene, it's like Peter does walk away from it. Like, I'm done. Fine. I'm gonna listen to him and do what he said, and through circumstances beyond him, is thrown back into it once it's revealed that he's the father of that girl. Yep. And it's like, oh, I like that because for a moment I'm almost like this movie almost feels anticlimactic. But then on purpose it does, because they're just like, oh no, no, no, we're gonna don't worry, it's about the antics. It's coming. And it's instead of Peter just going against Tony, it's forcing him back into it. And he's not gonna ignore this at that point. Yeah, no, which you no one blames it either. It's yeah, he has to, you have to, uh because if if he wasn't her dad, the rest of this movie's over the movie's over. Credits. Yeah, yeah. Right? And this guy would have stole stuff and you vulture would have been out there and maybe come back in a different movie. Credits. But it's just perfect that they did it that way. They don't do that same stupid thing where the little hero that you're working, you know, that you're chanting, you know, uh uh cheering for decides to be defiant and go do it. He literally surrenders to the idea that I gotta figure my shit out. Yeah. And then there he answers the door.

SPEAKER_00 3:38:37

Yep. What you were supposed to do? So good, you know?

SPEAKER_02 3:38:41

And it's like it's like, oh shoot. And it's not even the I would even say beyond that, you almost think you could have got away with him ignoring it still until the car scene. Yes. Once he turns and he knows that he's who he is, and he tells him what he tells him, it's like, now I have to.

SPEAKER_04 3:39:01

Yes. And that easily could have been that could have been, and I know we're gonna get into that a little later, but that could have been the the best time for him to say, I definitely don't want to get back into it now because I don't want to get Aunt May hurt. But he does the right thing, even knowing what the consequences could be.

SPEAKER_02 3:39:19

He becomes a hero without the suit.

SPEAKER_04 3:39:21

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 3:39:22

Yep, yes, so good. All right, yeah, I I love it so much. Um love it so much. What would uh what would you give the score then? This this is a nine out of ten. Yes. Yeah, I'm gonna give it a nine. Like I'm there's a little couple little stupid things, I guess, but I'm not I'm not even gonna get into them.

SPEAKER_01 3:39:38

I don't want to ruin our favorite streak here.

SPEAKER_04 3:39:41

Yeah, yes, I was gonna say I gave it a nine out of ten as well. Yeah, yeah. It was really, really good, yeah, especially having those scenes in there in particular. All right, I'm gonna read act three for you guys. Let me just make sure I got my notes ready to read them properly. Um, let's see.

SPEAKER_00 3:40:00

So Act Three.

SPEAKER_04 3:40:05

Did you let me just double check to make sure? Did you already Yep, that was Peter confronts him, which really makes him the hero. Okay. Act three is during a fight trans flight transportation. I am butchering this. During a flight transporting stolen weapons, Peter thwarts Tombs' plan. During the process, the plane crashes on the beach. Spider-Man ultimately defeats Vulture but chooses to save his life instead of letting him die. Tony Stark acknowledges Peter's maturity and offers him a full Avenger suit and membership, but Peter declines, choosing instead to remain grounded in his own identity. Later, Tony purpose proposes to Pepper's Potts and decides to publicly announce the event new direction.

SPEAKER_00 3:40:50

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 3:40:51

So did the ending land for you?

SPEAKER_02 3:40:55

To me, it did. So we're going to be in the ending, and we're going to go to the very end then. Yes, it landed. And I actually like that it ends with anime discovering that he's fire bad. Yeah. I think it's a daring thing to do. I think it's smart to do. Um, clearly, once we get to the third movie, it's brilliant. And that's the point. Like it also is that punchy ending where something happens and then the credits roll. I'm like, yeah, I love movies that do this. Like, I just like it when you just do that and it's fun.

SPEAKER_04 3:41:22

So the end the ending land for me, yes. The other part of the ending I I personally put down for the other part is Peter the Kleining Tony's offer. Is would that be that's my favorite moment, the best moment I put for victory. Yep. Yeah, okay. Yes. Yeah, same line though. I completely agree. Yeah, I I love that. And that's I agree, it's my favorite moment of that whole act because it's he easily because he's always so captivated by the Avengers. That's been his whole point throughout this whole movie is I want to impress him enough so I could be part of this team and be taken seriously. Well, now he knows he could be taken seriously without having to be part of the team. And there it there's a humbleness to Peter from this experience that I really enjoy. And I love that they made that decision of not just having him just join the Avengers, he becomes his own hero. And Tony's so proud. And Tony, yeah, he was shocked, but he's also proud. But he also he always has something up his sleeve. And I love that Pepper was there, the proposal thing.

SPEAKER_02 3:42:23

I'm like, oh my gosh. Yeah, see, having her, it doesn't make a difference. It's just Pepper showing up makes such a difference with Tony. Yeah, it just I think it proves my point that without Pepper, uh really it it completes the Tony Stark experience. Yep. Even that couple minutes, right? Yes. Yeah, the nuance of the looks between Happy and him during him saying no. Yeah. So if you watch the scene carefully, there's a lot going on there. It's it's just so well acted.

SPEAKER_04 3:42:50

Yes, yes, I completely agree. I love that. And that is that that is my favorite moment, too, of Act Three is him uh Peter half smiling, looking at that suit and walking away from it. And I'm like, wow, that's bold, that's cool, and I'm so for it.

SPEAKER_02 3:43:09

And by the way, this is our first look at Avengers Combat.

SPEAKER_04 3:43:12

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:43:12

Full full look, yeah. Cool. It is a cool thing. I want a Lego thing. Well, they have one, but it sucks. Yeah, it's not like the movie. Yeah, I want I want a model of it. It's so awesome.

SPEAKER_04 3:43:22

Right. Yeah, it looks so good. All right, so what would you say would be like your biggest issue you you think for this?

SPEAKER_02 3:43:28

I don't have any issues with the side of this movie. Me either. I think this movie nails the landing perfectly. Um, the climax is earned. Uh I like that Peter not only proving that he's a hero to himself, but he also takes this moment at the end with tombs.

SPEAKER_04 3:43:45

It's like it's he easily could have let him die, knowing that his family would be safe from him, but he doesn't.

SPEAKER_02 3:43:53

Yeah, you're 100%. He takes it's it's a connected thing that's a thing that Peter Parker has to be. That Spider-Man has to be. Because you know who else was like that with a villain? Toby was like that with Norman.

SPEAKER_00 3:44:09

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 3:44:10

He'd have rather saved his life than kill him. Yep. And doing it like this, like it's just it's just so nice. Like it's this is what gives me this hot take about tombs later. Because I'm still not there yet, even though it's the end of the movie. Okay. Um, but yeah, it's uh I feel like what a mirror to that by staying true to that without it feeling like a copy. Like you're not copying what Toby's did with Norman or how he felt with him, but you did it, you know. He's he could easily let him die, he could easily just defeat, or in a way, but it's like he's proven to him that hey, you need to stop. You got family, man. Like quit being who you are. He's not looking at the criminal side of it, he's looking at the human there that's making bad decisions and very bad ones, you know. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:44:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:44:58

I I love that I think that's very much earned at this moment.

SPEAKER_04 3:45:00

I agree. I and you know, one of the things that's I love about this act, and not just in this act, but you see it a little bit in act two, a little bit, is another way of them connecting this to the MCU is that Tony's building the Avengers Tower is sold. And that's a you know, whoever was sitting in the writing room with either John Watson, Kevin Feigen, Amy Pascal, whoever is involved in this creative process and saying, How do we make a first Spider-Man movie be a banger? They they laid out three or four specific things that that put him into the MCU and make it cool, where you kind of need Spider-Man, but it complements the rest of the MCU. That first scene with cleaning up after the Avengers stuff establishes your villain, pretty cool, really cool actually. Um, and also starts up damage control because now you find out that that's how Department of Damage Control was founded, is Tony's answer to hey, we just helped wreck New York City, even though we saved it. We want to help build it again. That's perfect. That's really cool. And then this whole selling the Avengers Tower and moving to the compound, and you're all you're wondering what's happening with Avengers Tower. This movie says what's happening to Avengers Tower. You don't know that's Valentina Allegro de Fontaine that actually bought it. We find that out many years later. But that moving the stuff, the important stuff, too, they made sure that the last shipment being sent out there was all the big stuff from all six of your main heroes. Seeing all the arc reactors in that one big suit, seeing all the bow and arrows from Hawkeye, seeing all the Black Widow's gauntlets and trinkets. Like there are some Thor stuff, I forgot what it was, but there's stuff all over the place. It's the DNA of every single one of these heroes and making it where that is the ultimate prize that Tombs is going to be doing. That is so cool. And that the constant dismissal of Spider-Man, even though he's saying there really is a bad guy out there, it's perfect for the story. I I can't get over how well they made this movie as the intro to Spider-Man full-fledged into the MCU. Because that is that is gold right there. I I can't picture Doom Vulture any different than they did here. He was he was semi-relatable, but yet still menacing. It's so really so cool. Uh sorry, I'm kind of my my mind's at a blank with saying anything negative about this because I can't get over how well they each actor performed it. The casting was perfect, the just the whole story in general was so good.

SPEAKER_02 3:47:41

So I need to get in more detail about the things that don't make this movie work, which is why you're gonna see in my final score, I think in my because I'm kind of calculating it as I go, so I like to do it as we talk because we can talk each other into things.

SPEAKER_03 3:47:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:47:56

Um, that I don't want to go into this with rose-colored glasses on, though. Yeah. Because we're coming off of good movies. Yeah. I mean, the last movie wasn't so good, but well, we did Doctor Strange, right? Yeah, well, we did Guardians 2.

SPEAKER_04 3:48:13

Oh, yeah, that was great.

SPEAKER_02 3:48:14

Doctor Strange a little lower than Civil War was almost perfect. And and when I look at that though, I'm gotta be very honest. There's stuff in this, though, that is kind of just typical and it's okay. And a lot of the villain scenes with the other villains, like the one that's on here, they get a little drawn and boring and drawed. There's something about them that just doesn't feel I don't like the people around them. I don't think they're good actors. I think they're good actors, I just don't think they're in a good spot. They're not doing well in this role. Yeah. And and I and I and there's moments where even with the when they showed the Glover character there, you know, I I was like, okay, all these villain moments I struggle with, I have a hard time with. And it and it slows this movie down. And there's certain times where you wonder where the cut was, where they decided to put it. And I'm not gonna ignore those things. As much as I want to talk nothing but praise about this movie, you will see reflected in my final score that I'm gonna I'm keeping myself honest about what we're looking at. And what is still good and enjoyable, I'm not gonna mistake it for mid. Or I'm not gonna mistake mid for enjoyable, does that make sense? Yep. So just because it doesn't necessarily not work doesn't mean it's as good as you know, every moment in civil war is thought out.

SPEAKER_00 3:49:43

Yeah, that's true.

SPEAKER_02 3:49:44

This doesn't feel that way. Yes. As good as this is, this has corners and curves that make you go, okay. It's fine because what's next is awesome. And then and this has peaks, way more peaks than lows. Very few lows, if any, really, or dip real far. Yeah but way more peaks. But it's not the kind of like civil war perfect. I agree. And that's and that's kind of that's why the hot takes I said before. The Russo set the bar high, even in these good movies, to get up there in the eights, nine, and tens ranges. Man, I don't know, it's tough, right? I'm not saying this is gonna get a low score. It's definitely not today. But uh it's it might not be what you think it is, though. And and uh for those just for that reason, I'm trying to keep myself in that area, but I don't want to, I can't pick out the biggest issue because it's hard to explain when it is more like just moments here and there that make me feel you know, you can tell that this isn't this isn't up to that kind of par. Even though it's still really freaking good. Like it's still good. Like I love a lot that's in this, to be honest. But the the the highlight of it that's wrong for me is you give us three excellent villain moments in this movie and six bad ones that just are there. And it's to me, it's like what happened there? Like, what's going on? I feel like the writing failed when it comes down to tombs, um, in that aspect, because what they do with him that works is spectacular. But what they do with him that doesn't is just mediocre. It's there, it's no big deal, which kind of goes on to my hot take for later. So did we already give a score for act three or we haven't touched upon it? We have it a nine, I'm gonna give it a nine.

SPEAKER_04 3:51:33

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 3:51:35

High marks here.

SPEAKER_04 3:51:36

Yeah, high marks. I gave it a 10 out of 10 for me. Because I I just I liked how this ending was, and I like the decision that he made at the end that they made him have in this movie and where it left off.

SPEAKER_00 3:51:50

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 3:51:50

Honestly. Um, all right, so guys, post-credit scene. Um, in prison, Adrian Toomes is approached by another inmate who asks, Have you know Spider-Man's identity? Toomes denies knowing anything, choosing to protect Peter despite their conflict. And then the post-credit scene is Captain America appears as a public PSA explaining the importance of patience and endurance, delivering a human, humorous, anticlimatic message about uh waiting. The purpose It's just comedy. Yeah, the the purpose of that the post-credit scene is just comedy. The the mid-credit scene, there's yeah, there's we don't see any follow-through with that later on for the with the tomb saying. Yeah, that one there's not much. Actually, funny enough, the only follow-through we see of that is tombs in Morbius in the Spider-Verse. I don't know what I don't know what they were trying to do, but what regardless more than they could chew with that, and someone said, nah, not right, stop that.

SPEAKER_02 3:52:52

Thankfully, this movie sucks, no one's gonna watch it. Alright, so how important is it? I put not off. Yeah, it's not important. Um, but it does shed a light on tombs for me. I think at the end of this movie when he goes to jail like that, he's no longer a villain. It's over. And I think it's the first time that that might be one of the first times that kind of happens in the MCU in a legit sense. Where I guess you could say, yeah, well, in the MCU for sure. You know, because you can even say Loki becomes a good guy, but there's a lot to that, you know.

SPEAKER_04 3:53:31

Yeah, but there's a difference of becoming a good guy and just giving up villainy.

SPEAKER_02 3:53:35

Yeah, I think once he loses, I think you could call this a hot take, I guess, but I have a different take on Toom's because I think he because Peter saved his life, that ending scene's done so well that it also shown he realized, yeah, I damn. And I and he's not the kind of guy that's gonna let someone go murder a kid. I I don't think they have conflict anymore. I don't think Toomes is after him. I don't think Toomes would even think that he would I think Toomes is portrayed well enough by Keaton that we can all understand that now that he's caught and it's over with, he realizes his actions is what got him to where he is. Even though he did what he could to get do what he and I think that's how he's gonna see it. But he's also gonna see it that Peter kind of saved his life. Because ultimately his direction was not gonna you know, so number one, he is a tit for tat kind of guy where it's like you saved my life. So I'm, you know, just like in the car scene, you saved my daughter's life, here's your one chance. And I think he means that, you know, and I think he means it here at the end. Where if he hated him and it was always holding it against him, then tell this guy who he is, but he's not gonna, because he sees evil in that guy, in the guy who gonna become Scorpion, right?

SPEAKER_00 3:54:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:54:58

And that's different. I don't think Tombs is a bad guy anymore by the end of the way. I think there is a redemption there that I kind of wish they'd put more nuance to. Because I think it's I think it's there.

SPEAKER_00 3:55:11

I think in his mind it's like, no, I'm not I wouldn't do that to a young kid. Yeah. Yeah, I mean that's yeah. But as it impact on the MCU, yeah, it doesn't mean shit. Because they didn't do anything with it. It's over. That kind of sucks. Yeah. It does. Yeah, it does.

SPEAKER_04 3:55:34

So I gave it like a hype level 0% and a score of one out of ten. Yeah. Yeah. Alright, guys. The kind of Mergus stuff is fun. It's fun, but it's just a joke. That's that's one of my problems with post-credit scenes. Yeah. I I was kind of put off by that one. Be like, really? But whatever.

unknown 3:55:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 3:55:56

Anyways. Um, alright. So let me make sure I have my notes in the right order because I, for some reason, don't our deep dives, guys. Casting and performances. Who would you give the best performance to?

SPEAKER_02 3:56:09

I'm gonna give it to Tom. I think for an unknown that's gonna play the emotional range that he plays in this movie. I am gonna give it to him. What a great job. He's funny. He's at you can tell he's doing his own stunts, he's athletic. I think he brings that emotion home. He has great chemistry with all the acting, with everybody in whatever certain spots that they're in. Yeah, I'm gonna have to give it to him.

SPEAKER_04 3:56:35

I agree. I completely agree. Everything you just said. Most surprising performance, I gave it to Michael Keaton. Me too.

SPEAKER_02 3:56:42

I gotta tell you, Michael Keaton before this had come off of a time where he wasn't around much. And he actually did a movie called Birdman. Oh, yes. Where he plays a bird-like superhero that's an alter identity. He plays an actor who used to play a superhero, and now he's a fail, he's a failed actor, used to play a superhero, and he can't ever get rid of it. So it kind of like reflected his Batman years. And then he comes and plays Vulture. Like he just plays these things with wings all the time. Like and it's just unique that he did this. I l I like that he chose this, and I think he kind of did that on purpose in his own in his own way. Yeah. And Michael, what an awesome. Oh my god, what a great actor. Great. Forget how good he is, and man, oh man, is he good in this movie?

SPEAKER_04 3:57:32

Yeah. He is excellent. He is excellent.

SPEAKER_00 3:57:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 3:57:37

All right. Well, who would you give to the weakest performance?

SPEAKER_02 3:57:39

The the uh the actor, I can't remember his name. Ned. But no, oh no, I'm not gonna give it to Ned. Ned's alright. Um Ned, you know, Ned's Ned. It's I Ned would be my second choice, but only because Ned's not like the other Peter friends in the other Spider-Man movies, other than comedy, Ned really doesn't have a role. And I and I feel like that is true all the way through all three movies, unfortunately. When like Harry at least made sense because there's point to it, right? Yeah. That's why I'm hoping Ned becomes, you know, there's more to it. More to him. Yeah. But no, I'm gonna give it to the guy who plays the shocker to there. The second one. Yeah. Okay. He just falls so flat as an actor to me. I don't it's just another one of those side characters that's there that makes me go, I don't believe a word that's going on here. This really bugs me, these these scenes and why they're not better with these guys. I'm gonna give it to him.

SPEAKER_04 3:58:38

All right. Yeah. I I had a hard time picking a weak performance, but I do I actually agree that it's his whole crew.

SPEAKER_02 3:58:45

Yeah, just a bunch of good actors with no nothing to do with it.

SPEAKER_04 3:58:50

And some of those, like there, there are three of them in particular that you see a lot and are actually big Marvel villains. You have Shocker, and then Shocker 2, when he the other one takes on the mantle. You have the one that we are now definitely gonna see in uh brand new day, this the Scorpion one. And then the one guy, he's his name is the Tinkerer, and he's actually a big Marvel villain. He's actually the main villain in um Ultimate Alliance 2, the video game. And so that's and we never see him again. So I actually also put him, just to skip ahead for a moment, as my miss opportunities, that Tinkerer guy. We've never seen him after that, which surprises me.

SPEAKER_02 3:59:28

But, anyways, it's I don't have a missed opportunity here because it was hard to think of one, but I'm gonna agree with that one for that.

SPEAKER_04 3:59:33

Yeah, you introduced him, I forgot, and it's a little nod to it, but then that would be a cool villain for either Peter or actually, to be honest, he almost could be an Avengers level threat to a degree.

SPEAKER_02 3:59:47

I'll tell you that. They need to change that. Yeah, but yeah, you're right. That that character though could have been a lot more. At least a lot more, in my yeah, in my opinion. All right, casting wins and misses. So the win obviously is Michael Keaton. Um, but I think the biggest win in this is Marissa Trome's MA. What a great decision to make her young and make it her. Yes. What a good choice. It adds to the comedy with Tony. I think it just adds to Peter's life and how she becomes part of his life later. It's just, yeah, it's what a great, what a great choice to do that. Yep.

unknown 4:00:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:00:20

It's a big swing, too. Yeah. If you think about it.

SPEAKER_04 4:00:22

It is. And Marissa told me it's a great actress. She's so good. And she's easy to look at. Yeah, yes. Yes, yes. All right. So um direction and production. Everything I wrote down here from the directing style to the cinematography to action, CGI, and the music, of course, is almost iconic Spider-Man music, mixed in with MCU music. So uh it's all great for me. I have no complaints about any of it.

SPEAKER_02 4:00:46

Yeah, I think the CGI is some of the best of the MCU so far. Um, a lot of the alien tech is really cool to watch. I love this thing that you're seeing right now. Right, that that purple, the thing that the portal is awesome. It's really cool. Yeah, it is really cool. Um, I think the director encap definitely took encapsulized, or however you say it, encapsulized uh John Hughes feel because John Hughes is old school in this kind of you know high school-esque coming of age stuff. And I think that he did a great job with it. And the cinematography is fun. Nothing sticks out to me, cinematography, except the action scenes are real. I'm glad they're not real shaky and hard to watch. I'm glad they just went out there and just let it happen. Yeah. Um, I think the sets were great uh and where they chose to do them. And yeah, the sound, I love the soundtrack, and I also love the score. I think the soundtrack fits the score, the score fits the soundtrack. I mean, some of the song the song choices they put in this movie are fantastic and really edgy out there stuff, which is kind of cool. And then, of course, once again, their score stuff that they've been doing. The MCU's been doing a great job. So good. Ever since Avengers, they realized we need good music. You know what I mean? Yeah. And they've been consistent on at least delivering and these. This is some of my favorite stuff here.

SPEAKER_04 4:02:01

I actually think that the score for this one with the the old Spider-Man theme song mixed in with this new version of the Avenger style orchestra type thing fits this Peter better than the other two. It would have, in my opinion. I don't think those other two did do it, or if they did, it was little nods to it. This one, it fit because he's a teenager and uh a kid, where this is kind of how that movie was geared towards of a coming of age for Peter type thing. And I feel like that was just a good mixture.

SPEAKER_00 4:02:31

Playfully epic.

SPEAKER_04 4:02:31

Yes, playfully epic is the best way to describe it. Perfect. All right, so now we're gonna get on to um hot takes. Yeah. I got a big hot take.

SPEAKER_02 4:02:41

And it's something that I don't want them to stop doing, because they kind of have, because the stories have gotten real weird now. Um, but it's something that I notice that if government agencies weren't assholes, we wouldn't have villains. Because what if they showed up and they just were like, hey, it's under this jurisdiction now. Here's your option. You either get the hell out of here or you sign on a dotted line and you work for us for this project.

SPEAKER_04 4:03:09

You know, I thought And you know what? None of this would have happened. I thought about that too when that happened. Part of me was thinking, they're already there. You have the manpower now. Yeah, just pay them. Yeah. It might not be as much as what they could have been getting, but at the same time, circumstances, government has to take over for whatever. I get it.

SPEAKER_02 4:03:28

But the government contracts out just like the city does. Exactly. So now you no longer either work for the city and you don't have a job, or you work for us and you keep a job. Yes. And he'd have been like, fine. And he's taking money home. Because it his goal was never to steal this stuff and do this. He's only doing it because he lost his job. Yep. And he told him right now I literally bought things. This is what these contractors do. When you get a good green light, you say, Cool, I'm gonna go spend all this money to get this done for you, and you're gonna pay me all this money back. And they gave him the contract, he went and bought the trucks, and then they fired him. So all the money he put into it, he didn't get back. That's what a bunch of dicks. Yeah, no wonder he's stealing their stuff. There's nothing evil about this guy except for the fact he's willing to kill. But even then, he's only willing to kill because I would kill from my family. Because he's yeah, he's doing it in the guise of protecting my family. And he's not wrong. And he's sick and tired. Who wouldn't be sick and tired of the big corporation coming in and kicking you out? In the real world scenario, he just lost his business.

SPEAKER_04 4:04:31

Yes, in the real world scenario, he could have sued New York City and gotten a lot of money.

SPEAKER_02 4:04:35

Hell yeah.

SPEAKER_04 4:04:36

Because that's yeah, he really could have. So my hot take is come on, man.

SPEAKER_02 4:04:42

Have some give the vulture a break. Well, yeah. I mean, my the hot take to me is like, this is not his intentions are not evil at all. Yeah. And in fact, in fact, I would go as far to say, because of their actions with it, other than actually taking human life, which I don't think he should do, he's kind of justified to feel the way he does. And that that's a hot take because yeah, he's a bad guy, right? But how bad is he? You all be pissed. You'd all be pissed. Because it's his family, and it's the people that work for him, it's their family too, you know? Yep. It's like so he's worked now, he's working with shady people because that's how he's making his money. He's stealing, he's gonna take it from them. Yep. He's kind of like a Robin Hood in a way, you know, but he just Yeah, it's just see, guys, the old school Robin Hood tales, too, he killed people too. So it's not much different.

SPEAKER_04 4:05:34

Yeah, but and to your point there, he does. I'm not saying that every blue-collar working class person is like this, but his mindset of I'm gonna do what I can to help my family make ends meet, you know, things like that. Um, that's like your average Joe Schmo out there.

SPEAKER_02 4:05:54

Yeah, actually, people do worse. There's shootings that happen for this kind of stuff. People drive vehicles into buildings because they get fired and they lose their job and their family's screwed or whatever.

SPEAKER_00 4:06:04

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 4:06:04

This guy decides to put on a vulture suit and steal things. He's not even hurting anybody. Yes, he's stealing stuff. Yeah. From who, though? The richest person in the world. And not only that. Really, not really stealing from Tony, but it's a guy, it's the people that kicked him out that what a bunch of jerk.

SPEAKER_04 4:06:21

And what he's stealing is alien technology. He's not stealing your personal bank account. Right. He's stealing something that wasn't supposed to even be here.

SPEAKER_02 4:06:28

Because it can make money. Yes. And it might end up in the wrong hands. That's the dark side of it that he's willing to accept because they screwed him over. They're making me have to do this. And it's like, and I'm not saying it's the right answer, but I think he's justified in the feeling of it. Yes. And like yeah, I it it just be nice. Like, what are we doing here? Don't do this crap. Yep. Like, I don't think this happens often in real life, but I think the times it does. I see why this happened. I mean, he could have chosen a lot worse things to do. It doesn't show him killing people.

SPEAKER_04 4:07:03

I don't think he had any intentions for it to go like that at all. He didn't intend to kill his one foreman there, and he didn't he didn't intend to threaten Peter's life, but he saw an opportunity of a scared kid. I'm gonna put the fear of God into him and say, Don't come after me, or I will have to come after your family.

SPEAKER_02 4:07:17

Well, I think he's very I think he's honest. If it if it comes between my family being okay and you, it's always gonna be my family first. And I think he and that's that's the that's that spot or that thing in his head that stamped that for us normal people doesn't. That he is willing to cross that line because he feels so so so jaded by it, right? Yeah, because he does he has no larger intentions other than to keep making money. Through the whole movie, he's telling us that no, don't make that suit. He's not planning on doing this thing, it's just he's forced to because the actions of Peter. Yes, you know what I mean? And then also he tells him, Look, I we don't want the Avengers around. You what do you want? You think you want do he yells at that guy? He says, Don't be doing that crap out there. You don't need the Avengers coming. We're just we're just trying to make money. We're not out here trying to be villains to the Avengers. Yes, yeah, he's not even like he's telling them this, and they're just acting like idiots. And it's and he just he's just willing to take that step to protect it. So, you know, justice for tombs.

SPEAKER_04 4:08:23

So I'm gonna say my hot take then is uh uh and maybe it's not too much of a hot take, but for someone out there it might be a young adolescent Peter Parker Spider-Man with no power origin can work in the movie. And I think this film is proof of that. Oh, yeah. Because I remember when this came out and there was a lot of people were put off by he didn't he's not getting the the origin of speed Spider-Man. That's okay because we've already had two origins. I don't know anyone who doesn't know how Peter becomes Spider-Man.

SPEAKER_02 4:09:02

I'm pretty sure that when you turn like seven years old, there's something inside you that just opens up and it's a folder that says how this happens. I don't think I don't think you even have to be taught this. Like this is one of be this and Batman's parents are the two things that you don't know this already? Like, yeah, we don't need to talk about it.

SPEAKER_04 4:09:26

Yeah, that I I agree with that, but the Batman parent thing. We don't need to rehash the tragedy that made Batman Batman. We just know Batman just became Batman because of that.

SPEAKER_02 4:09:34

Yeah, I'm a school bus driver and I have a pre-K kid on my bus that he likes Spider-Man, and we talk Spider-Man every day. He's waiting for the bus to get out when we're at the loop. And I talk with him about I said, Do you know how Spider-Man became Spider-Man? He goes, Yes, he was bit by a spider. Simple. Pre-K. Simple.

SPEAKER_04 4:09:49

Like, yeah, you don't, yeah. You need to be told. I completely agree with you. It's like air. You just know this. This is like a fact of life now.

SPEAKER_02 4:09:56

I can't think of the time I knew this. Like I I learned that P was bit by a spider. I feel like I was born with this knowledge.

SPEAKER_00 4:10:05

Right. Pretty self-explanatory.

SPEAKER_02 4:10:08

So, what do you guys want an origin for? Because you'd be complaining about it's always origins. Yeah, no, this is perfect. Yeah. Like this is Yeah. Yeah, close to an origin. When when is as close to an origin as you're gonna get that you should deserve, to be honest with you? When he goes and recruits him in Civil War, he's only like he's only been Spider-Man for a few months. Like I'm still trying to figure out what I can do. Yeah. You know?

SPEAKER_04 4:10:34

Yeah, I agree. So, anyways, guys, our let's see. Oh, see, my my notes are messed up. But what's next?

SPEAKER_00 4:10:42

Our quick fire. Yeah, quick fires. Did we skip one? Did we skip something? Just making sure we did. No, we did not. We didn't. Alright, perfect. So, best scene of the movie. Uh the best scene of the movie? I don't want the one to be two, so I had to pick a different one.

SPEAKER_02 4:11:02

I'm gonna pick the Trapped in a Vault scene.

SPEAKER_00 4:11:06

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 4:11:06

I love it. I understand why it's not everybody's favorite. It's I think it's it just I what I like about it, like I explained earlier, is him getting out relied on him being Peter Parker and smart. And I think that the mix of that was genius.

SPEAKER_00 4:11:24

Oh gosh. So best scene in the movie for me, which it uh Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 4:11:29

You know the one I'm contending with because but I have I'm gonna leave it as the one Okay. I'm I'm putting the best scene in the movie for me is when he chooses not to take up the Avenger offer. Oh, that's a good choice. I mean I do love that. There's like three scenes in this movie that I would say are the best, but I agree with you. I want to make sure I can save some of those other scenes for other moments, so to speak.

SPEAKER_02 4:11:51

Yeah, so well, they're so deserving in that spot. Exactly.

SPEAKER_04 4:11:54

So I put that one.

SPEAKER_02 4:11:56

Okay, I'm with you. All right, least best scene. Um yeah, honestly, the only stuff I don't like is is the anything with Tunes as guys. You know, I there's a couple of them there, just they're just whatever.

SPEAKER_00 4:12:11

Yeah. You know, oh here, you're shocker too. Okay, it seems I agree. Yeah, yeah. I completely agree. I'm just gonna say that for that.

SPEAKER_02 4:12:20

Best villain moment. I mean, duh. From the time he goes to the house to when he drops him off at the school. Exactly. Holy shit. Let's get into this.

SPEAKER_04 4:12:29

I I wow I was impressed that they went that far. I was happy. The moment he gets out of Aunt May's car and he knocks on the door, rings the bell, or whatever it is, and he opens it up. When Peter gulps, I gulped. Because I was thinking, oh my! Because they never hint at all throughout this movie. There's a brilliance of hiding this how they did it. Yeah, yes, that Liz's dad is the vulture, and all Peter is thinking, which you know what's so cool. If you didn't know that and you just watched this scene, it looks like a very stereotypical new boyfriend coming over to the going on the first prom date with the daughter and how he's gonna act in front of the father type of thing. It's very stereotypical. So that's how um Adrian Toombs plays that off as. But in Peter's mind, he's like, Oh shit.

SPEAKER_02 4:13:22

Yeah. And he looks scary. He's scarier because of it, right? Yeah, yes. Yeah, and you know what the br I I have the balls enough to say this online. I hope we don't get canceled before we get too far. But the brilliance of this scene, which I don't think you'll ever hear them all say because cancel culture is so crazy. The brilliance of this twist is that you never saw it coming because she doesn't look like she has a white dad. Well, you can't even guess this.

SPEAKER_04 4:13:49

That is, guys, that is not controversial. If anyone thinks that is, I'm sorry. I know there's a lot of mixed families out there, and we're not dismissing it.

SPEAKER_02 4:13:57

Actually, right?

SPEAKER_04 4:13:58

But they're gonna say, Well, you're assuming no, that's not how it works. If anything, that how they did this is they tricked the audience because the audience would have assumed that she being darker skinned African American, she would have an African-American mom and dad, maybe one of them a little lighter skinned because she has a lighter complexion. No one would have assumed nobody guessed this. Yes. Because there's no clues. And that's that's that's brilliant. Brilliant.

SPEAKER_02 4:14:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 4:14:24

That is this is a compliment. That is a brilliant part of this whole thing.

SPEAKER_02 4:14:28

I just don't know. It sounds weird to say if you're writing a story, let's yeah, yeah, let's make her, let's make her, you know, a different uh race, so then you'd never guess it. I guess some people say, oh, that's you know, being racist. Um, to me, I think it's a great, I think it's a great tool.

SPEAKER_04 4:14:43

It's a great example of New York City being as culturally diverse as there is. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 4:14:49

It adds to this this scene. You're not, you don't see it coming.

SPEAKER_04 4:14:53

And if anyone says this is racist, you probably are racist and saying white can't mix a black, I guess.

SPEAKER_02 4:14:58

Usually when you're looking for those things, you think about it too much. Just saying, you know, just to throw that out there. Yeah, but so I just wanted to say that because I it stuck out to me. I'm like, Dad, is you you cannot guess this. There's no guessing this. Yep. And and it's such a smart move. It's so brilliant, it's so smart. And what I like about it too is it opens, there's no music, too. This just plays out and it just lets us go, huh? Like it's like that's cool. There's no like you know what I mean? No, this is just intense. This is just normal. Just from yeah, it's just these actors all together, these two, the chemistry of Tom and him, perfect, making it feel like oh man, you cut you can cut that room with like cheese, you know what I mean? Like, yeah. He seems menacing, but if uh right up until he realizes what she's saying, he's not a scary guy still.

SPEAKER_04 4:15:49

But yeah, Peter, he's always gonna be scary, right? And she was saying enough of those clue words of oh, but your friends with Spider-Man, and then oh, you lost a Stark internship? Oh, what happened? All that and too many things added up. He's hearing it and he, I mean, Adrian's smart, he's putting the dots together, and then when it hits him, he's very cool and calm and collective, and then he plays it off still as I'm the protective dad, so give me a minute to have the dad talk or whatever.

SPEAKER_02 4:16:14

And oh now, before we get to the dad talk part, okay, the nuance of the brilliance of what almost gives us if this movie I wish this movie had some better choices of some pacing moments and stuff, because it would be almost a 10 just for this one scene. The nuance in this scene of when he's talking to her and she's putting the pieces together, you see in his face the phases of what his options are for the for Michael Keaton. And at first, it's like you know Spider-Man. So part of him's like, this kid could get me to Spider-Man. But then towards the end, as she says more, it's like a bell goes off when the light turns green with the thing, it goes off. Oh, you're Spider-Man. Like, so he you see him without saying it, go through that process of, oh wait, Tony Starr, okay, you weren't there. They said, wait a minute, I could use this kid to get the Spider-Man. Wait a minute.

SPEAKER_04 4:17:16

It's pretty good that your friend Spider-Man was in Washington, DC.

SPEAKER_02 4:17:19

Oh, like oh, whoa, oh once he knows it, he knows it. And that and then only in the acting though, do you see that process without the words being said? And then of course we get there, and there and he just turns to him and he's like, Does she know? And Peter tries to play it off, and he's just like, listen, I'm gonna lay it out there for you, pretty much. Wow. Like, and he means it. I think he's honest with it. I do think so. Yep. Some people might argue they say, Well, then why would you send the guy in the back? Is it just in case? I think he told him if he doesn't come out after a certain amount of time, leave. Yep. But yeah, he wants to see what he would do. Yeah, you want to see what he could do. I don't think he'd have killed him. I think he would have let it be. Because I think he was honest about you saving my daughter's life. So with that, I'm gonna pay you back by saving yours by not killing you. So get get the hell out of here and forget about it. Or not only you am I gonna kill. Yes. And I don't know if he means he really would have gone and killed those people. I think he's gonna be asking. I do think someone who was to scare him, but I do think he would have went through with something for sure. Yeah, I completely agree. Yeah, what a scene when he tells them that too. And the acting on both of their parts.

SPEAKER_04 4:18:34

Fantastic. I like that there's not a lot of argument from Peter. Oh, yes. Great choice to be silent. Yes, yes, because he's playing that typical kid. He's he I mean, he's 19 when they are casting him, but I think he plays a 15, 16-year-old. Like Yeah, yeah. Wow.

SPEAKER_02 4:18:51

He hasn't even drove yet.

SPEAKER_04 4:18:52

Yes, you know, he's a young kid. So that's exactly how they would act. That's it's perfect. It's perfect.

SPEAKER_02 4:18:58

And it also shows his intelligence, so yes, because he not once is does he deny he's Spider-Man. He once he knows he's got, he listened and just got out and just was like petrified. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, the truth is he could have kicked his ass right there. He's Spider-Man, you know what I mean? But yeah, but he's a young, he's learning this.

SPEAKER_04 4:19:17

He doesn't, you know, he's it's just throwing him back into that mix. Well, and also he doesn't have a suit at that time. That's why he has to find his spare suit underneath the lockers. Yeah. So even if he didn't see other people, even if he did want to at that moment like hit his head or something like that, and other people saw it, they would see who was doing it, you know. So it was just really, really brilliantly done where you can't give any wiggle room to this could have happened differently. This was perfect. This is how it's supposed to happen. It was written so well.

SPEAKER_02 4:19:46

It's not a it's not an idle threat. I think he he meant what he would do, what he said he'd do, but I do think he was honest with you. And I think that's what I like about this villain, is like you could you could have negotiated, you could have negotiated with this guy. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:19:59

You could have been like, all right, got it, and then left and called Tony. Yep. That'd have been the best thing he could have done. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:20:08

You know, but he he still becomes a hero without the suit, right? Exactly. What Tony is saying. So good. But yeah, best villain moment by far. I completely agree. A second closeness to that though is when he does encounter him now and then like when it's he's like, I'm just buying time and the suit comes out. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 4:20:26

That whole conversation there is I have that for another part on my questionnaire here. Okay. All right, so most punchable face to you. I I literally put the new shocker and tinker.

SPEAKER_02 4:20:37

I I put the tinker.

unknown 4:20:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:20:38

Everything he says is not funny. Shut up and hit him. I just I want to punch him in the face. Yeah. I just don't like the guy. Yep. Yep. All right. One prop you take home. Okay, my prop is controversial. Because it might not exist, but it does. It's got to. Because it's in the movie. Okay. I want the cassette tape with the cover of it of the Captain America things that they played in school. The the PSA things, yes. Like the VHS. I want a VHS version of Captain on the front of it, like this. And it has like the title of it. I want that so bad. I know it's not technically in the movie, but to have that and then the tapes of it would be awesome. I love those. In fact, I'll tell you, that'd be a great marketing ploy. Hey, Disney, give me a call. You want to make a um have a cool collector's item toy, have Steve get while he's still young enough looking, put him in the costume, do like 45 minutes worth of these funny things like that, put them on the cassette tape and sell them. I would buy the shit out of that. I'd buy it on DVD, I'd buy it on VHS just for fun.

SPEAKER_04 4:21:45

Like I bet they already have it archived in doing those things. There's got to be a bunch. They probably have them filmed so many different ones, and then they have to do it. They pick one as a post-credit and one as what you see there. I'm telling you, you do that because he has one for detention in this movie, he has one for gym. Like, I'm sure they probably just gave him all like 10 different things you would do in school and do one. And then we probably, if we paid attention a little closer, I wonder if through the PA system, you hear any of that stuff. Yeah. You never know.

SPEAKER_02 4:22:13

I would love that. I know it's a weird one because technically you don't see it, but I think it I kind of invented something out of that. I think it would be cool.

SPEAKER_04 4:22:22

I like that. That's a good one. My prop is a cartoon drawing of the Avengers you first see when the movie opens. Yeah, that was that was on my that was on my list. Part of me is like, that's pretty cool. I don't know who did that, but that's pretty cool.

SPEAKER_02 4:22:32

I also thought the mass, the Avengers mass from the robbers would be cool to have them in line on the wall just because you know.

SPEAKER_04 4:22:41

Oh gosh.

SPEAKER_00 4:22:42

All right, so um, most underrated moment for you. Um well, what's yours first? We might have the same one.

SPEAKER_04 4:22:53

Maybe. So I'm putting this as my underrated moment because one.

SPEAKER_01 4:22:58

Yeah, go, I'm sorry, go on.

SPEAKER_04 4:22:59

I I forgot about this moment, and it makes more sense to any of the naysayers of No Way Home why Peter did what he did in No Way Home, and that that's Peter choosing to save the vulture's life. I think that's underrated because that he easily and justifiably could have let him just die because he knew what would happen if the vulture had any sort of power to him and wanted to kill Aunt May, everyone he loved, all that stuff. He could have done it. But he still chooses that classic Peter Parker trope of redeem redemption is what he's gonna start with first for all these characters. Redemption always. And in No Way Home, he teeters that line of I want to just kill these guys. But it that Aunt May reminds him this is who you really are.

SPEAKER_02 4:23:52

His first instinct is to save him.

SPEAKER_04 4:23:54

Yes, and that's that's it's I can't wait for No Way Home because I'm already getting chills thinking about that scene. But I think for this movie that's underrated because people forget what Peter Parker has been doing consistently since he started.

SPEAKER_02 4:24:07

What a great choice. So neat little trick you got there, Peter. A little bit.

SPEAKER_04 4:24:12

It's like cutscene.

SPEAKER_02 4:24:14

Yeah. All right. So what what should I for me I I don't think they talk about the scene of Tombs and him talking before he like when he attacks him enough. Because I think it's overshadowed by the other one. But I think the intensity is still or like the it carries on to there where you feel it here still too. Like now it's just shit's going down.

SPEAKER_04 4:24:37

I agree. No, I agree. All right. Um most overrated moment.

SPEAKER_02 4:24:42

You know, it's still a good moment. Um, but I'm gonna say it's it's the one that's always pointed to all the time. And it's uh it's the Tony Stark speech with him about the suit thing. I say overrated because that seems to be that whole segment, actually, with the boat and everything, I say I'm gonna say is overrated. Because for some reason it tends to be the highlight of what everybody talks about these days when you talk about this movie, and they also complain about this is where they complain the most, where they think Iron Man's too involved. And I I actually think that the opposite. You know, well, I wouldn't say the opposite or he's not too involved, I think it did makes what makes it work. Yeah. So I I say overrated for different reasons. Yeah. You know, more mostly because I think they use it wrong. That in the boat scene to me is definitely not the most exciting scene in the movie. Yeah. Even though for some reason it tends to be the one talked about the most.

SPEAKER_04 4:25:40

So I you're it's funny. It's funny that you said that. This is right on our screen right now. Exactly, is the moment. Yeah, we do this too often. This part where he is holding it together. I call it overrated because it does feel like they're trying to mimic the Spider-Man 2 beer, the Toby McGuire one. Almost a little too unanimous. It's so it's not a bad scene. I don't hate this scene. I do find some of the logic wrong in it when they're putting the ship back together and Tony is you know trying to put it all together. And we just got done watching Titanic Guy, so we kind of know a little bit about what happens with ships when you stick them open like that. But I don't say I don't, yeah, I agree. This boat should not be floating after that. There is no way they can seal that enough. The how it's split in half from the bottom up all the way to the top, that that thing, like a perfect sandwich, came back together and it's still working. That's the that's a big problem for me. But, anyways, um I just so funny, it's on our screen right now as we're talking about. The concept's cool. It's that the concept's cool, and I see that that's Peter's logical step is I'm gonna try to put it back together, but I think it's over talked about and overhyped because they always compare it to Spider-Man 2 on oh, that's why it's so cool, but also that's why it's overrated because we already seen it in Spider-Man 2. So it's like, yes, keep it in the movie, but don't overhype it. So that's my that's my take. All right. Um, funniest moment. I got two. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 4:27:14

So I'll say the one real quick, and the other one I have a little more behind, like more to talk about. But the funniest moment to me, I laughed out loud as a small moment when Happy was reading off the list of stuff that has to go into the plane and struggles to pronounce Thor's bell. We always joke about how all the stuff that is like from the north stuff is hard to pronounce, and they just play into it. He's like, Yeah, yeah, yeah, Thor's magic bell. And I'm just like, that's so funny. Like it. I laughed out loud. My second moment is the teacher when they're interviewing the teacher about yeah, we don't want to lose a kid, not again. And he gets real serious, but I laugh so hard. And don't forget, guys, he was in the incredible hulk. Remember, he was a scientist who goes on to become a teacher who ends up being Peter Parker's teacher of science, just like in the Incredible Hulk. So that's why it's real funny, too. But no, that scene where he goes, it's serious, like something happened before. And like I just yeah, to me, that kind of humor is cool.

SPEAKER_04 4:28:14

That teacher in particular gets m funnier in the second Spider-Man film, and I can't wait for it with our retrospective on that because I off the top of my head, that is the one I remember the most for funniness on that movie.

SPEAKER_02 4:28:26

You know who I'm gonna miss in the Spider-Man movies going forward, though, is happy not being there. He's always been a great part in all three movies. A little less in the third, but still a part, you know. Yeah, nothing like him looking at his ring camera thing and you see all the villains walking in.

SPEAKER_04 4:28:43

And less he's very very little mentioned in the second because it's far from home.

SPEAKER_02 4:28:47

So yeah, but but then you get to the end and he's in the action sequences. That's true, yes. Yeah, so it's like so he's not in it, and then he is all of a sudden. Yeah, you know, but in but at least in No Way Home, I like that they use his apartment and I like him looking at his camera thing, you see all the villains walking by. But I'm gonna I'm gonna miss Happy involved in the rest of them going forward. Brand new day, yeah. Maybe he will be, but he won't. There's no reason, though, as I say. Yeah, we'll have to see. I'm gonna miss the I'm gonna miss that character and be in there.

SPEAKER_04 4:29:16

Um, so I put for my funniest moment is when Ned is asking him all the questions after he finds out he's Spider-Man. He asks, like, within the span of two minutes, like 20 questions on the can you summon spiders? There's a whole list of them. I can't think of all of them on top of my head. I chuckled at every one of them because he's like, no, Ned, no, no, Ned. It's just yeah, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:29:41

Throughout the whole day. They're all stop.

SPEAKER_04 4:29:43

They're all it's I mean, I would too. Oh, how do you not? But yeah, it's fun to see it. Yeah, yeah. I love that. That's good stuff. All right, so now most emotional moment.

SPEAKER_00 4:29:56

I think this one's obvious. Okay. And we're looking at it right now. Okay. I think this aunt may calling him out.

SPEAKER_02 4:30:06

What's wrong with you? What's going on? Even though he doesn't tell her he's Spider-Man. This is that moment where he decides to walk away like Tony's telling him to. And he breaks down and he's sad about it. And the only way he can tell her without telling her who he is, is they lost the internship. Yep. And I just think this shows why picking her as a young aunt and the actress that she is and what they're gonna be like going forward is is definitely the heartbeat of these stories, which the once we get to the third movie is oh my god. So that's I think I think this is the most emotional moment of the movie. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 4:30:44

So I put mine as different than this. I agree with you. Everything you said here, it's actually that's a really good pick. I don't know why I didn't think of this when I wrote this down. Because it's not there's no big thing happening here, but yeah, I I I see that there is, though, at the same time. You know what I mean? So I wrote down when Peter saves himself from being crushed after what Tom's didn't have to do to him.

SPEAKER_00 4:31:04

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 4:31:05

Because that was the moment for him, because he was kind of giving up and he was definitely being crushed. And it was he remembers what Tony said to him, you're nothing without the suit. Or if you if you have what's the exact wording? I'm sorry, I'm blinking on it on the at the moment, but if you're nothing without the suit, you shouldn't have the suit or something like that. You're more than the suit. And he decides because he doesn't have the suit at that moment, it's just his pajamas he's basically he made he's wearing. Um he demonstrates his strength. Yeah, I think for the first time really in this movie. Probably learning that he can even do it. Yes, yeah. Exactly. Yeah, because this is still part of his origin to a degree of discovering more of who he is, even without the suit, and his determination to not give up. That was really cool to see in that moment as as he lifts that up and gets out of it. So I like that.

SPEAKER_02 4:31:56

That's a great choice. I think I think both are just as important. Yeah. Because for character growth on both of it, because this might pay off mine, might pay off later when yours is for the movie for sure. Yeah. But to me, it's like I I definitely like sh I I yeah, for some reason I'm waiting for a reason why she's who she is in this. And then that moment was like, oh, okay. Yep. This is why. Because going forward, this is gonna mean a lot. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 4:32:20

I completely agree. All right, guys, we're on to our final scores. So out of two, what's the story for you, sir? Stories stories are two.

SPEAKER_02 4:32:30

Stories are two for me as well. Characters. I'm gonna give it a one only because of some of the side ones are the ones that we've had problems with. Ned is Ned. He's not Harry and he's not well, Harry, both of them. You know what I mean? He's not that. Um, so Ed's really just more comedic, which is not a problem. They really underutilized uh MJ. Mm-hmm. I feel bad. When I watch this, I'm glad Zendaya gets the shine she gets in the next one. Because in this, you're almost like, boy, that could have been anybody. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_04 4:33:04

Like so a hot take on that, in my opinion, is I think they were one, I don't think the story called for too much of a love interest other than what they wanted to do with Toom's daughter. I think that was perfect.

SPEAKER_02 4:33:17

I agree.

SPEAKER_04 4:33:18

But I think that they made a very big at that time creative decision where the fans still talk about today on making MJ B Zendayo. Yeah, and changing, they're changing MJ's origin. And that I remember that at the time being like, oh, because that was a big reveal at the end, she's MJ. And a lot of fans are either put off by it or whatever. And I we're not getting into like a race talk of it, because MJ is typically depicted as a white redhead girl that Peter's in love with.

SPEAKER_02 4:33:54

Yeah, unconsequential though, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 4:33:56

Yes, that but that's that's the thing. I I am of the opinion, and I've said this on the podcast before, that the race of a character does not matter to me unless that's consequential to who the character is. So there's nothing about MJ that's ever been written where it was because she was white or because she was a redhead that she was A, B, C, and D. And same thing for um changing her to be Michelle Jones as opposed to Mary Jane. That honestly, I like the name Michelle Jones a little bit better. I I'm not I'm not saying I'm not a fan of MJ Mary Jane. I am. They're an iconic sp Spider-Man duo in the in the comics. I love it and everything else. But in this, I'm not upset with it. Not how some people have thought. And I think that they felt too. Yeah, I think that they were worried there would have been enough fan backlash of saying they they changed one of my favorite characters or whatever that they did. There was some stuff about it. Yeah, but I think they did that on purpose. They underdid it, and then in the next movie, they gave her her due. And I think all was forgiven because of her performance.

SPEAKER_02 4:35:03

Yeah, and I think where I feel like she got kind of gypped this time, I feel like that they were making creative decisions that paid off. Yeah. For this movie, it felt a little a little sidelined. Um, but ultimately in the long run, Mary Jane and I'll say MJ just for the sake of the character. MJ and Lois Lane are my two least favorite female characters in superhero shows and movies. Because I am tired of this, I don't want you to be Spider-Man anymore, and we can't be together when you are, and boo-hood, boo-boo-hood boo. And Lois Lane always, like, come on, I could save thousands of people across the world, but you're always putting yourself in a position where you gotta be saved. You know how many times Superman saved Lois Lane when you could have been somewhere else saving other people because she wouldn't keep her freaking nose out of shit? So, like, there's certain times where you gotta like, and then the and maybe the worst one is some of the Batman, some Batman girlfriends. Not all of them, but in particular the Christopher Nolan one. I'm not a fan of that. You know we can't beat it guy. I do love you, Bruce, but I'm gonna pick the other guy. It's like good, just blow her up. Oh, thank you. You did. I mean, well, thank you for doing that. She's dead. Now we don't gotta worry about it. And so, what I like about this MJ is not once in this trilogy do you hear her tell him that you can't be stooped by Spider-Man if you want to be with me. Yes. In fact, she figures out he's Spider-Man because she's a weirdo and doing what she's doing and makes her a whole different kind of person. And she's fine with him being Spider-Man. Yes. Thank you. Because I'm tired of the other crap. I don't need these, I don't know how to be this and be with you. It's like, why doesn't she just get her head out of her ass? What do you want to go date the normal guy? Or do you want to date F and Spider-Man lady? You know what I'm saying? Right. Like, yeah, like where else are you gonna feel the safest? That's a big perk right there. And how would she it's because she what always got me mad about MJ is he loved her, even though she spit in the face of the of the whole purpose of what his uncle taught him. You're telling me that you can't love this guy and be with him and be happy with him, knowing he's a superhuman Spider-Man, and you might be putting your life in danger, but you're you're taking that chance because you love him, but you could live with knowing that he could have saved someone's life, because with great power comes great responsibility. I always thought they contradicted themselves constantly with that, with this whole, wait a minute, why is he so broken up? He should be like, hey, listen, I was raised to know that if I can make a difference, I gotta make a difference. You and I don't have the same values. Bye, you know what I mean? What are you so stuck on this lady for? She wants you to go pretend that you're not a superhero. So when someone's burning in a building, remember if you're Spider-Man today, I'm gonna leave you. You can go kiss my ass. You know what I mean? Like, that's that's I always thought it never made sense to me. It never made sense to me, right? Like those Spider-Man were grown up knowing that I gotta do this, I gotta do that. You have to. You're able to, so you do it. Yep. Because if you don't, you're gonna feel like you you are at fault. And she just perpetuates that. You why can't you be with him? Yeah, you'd selfish. I just want to say a bunch of words. I wish I could swear like the dad from Christmas story. Because I'd be freaking out. Yeah, like you're like, get out of here. Goodbye. Goodbye. Like, don't worry, Spider-Man. There's other women out there that will be glad you're Spider-Man. Yeah. Yeah. Same with you, Batman. Chill out. Um, you know, let Rachel have what a good blower up. Thank you so much. Anyways, if you did that, and I'm just like, oh everyone else is like, oh, I'm like best moment in the movie.

SPEAKER_04 4:39:05

There was no.

SPEAKER_02 4:39:06

It's such a I if I ever have conversation, we'll talk it sometime. Oh, we're gonna do Dark Knight sometime. I remember being in the theater, you know, and I'm just like that sad.

SPEAKER_04 4:39:20

But well, oh geez. All right, so um where were we?

SPEAKER_02 4:39:26

Action and visuals. Oh, yeah. That was just our scoring, guys. Action and visuals. Whoo! I got a little hot on that one. Uh I gave that two action and visuals. Yeah, it's fantastic. Some of the best. Yep. Emotion and sticks. Um, you know what's funny because it's not the end of the world stuff, but I think this is him growing up, and I'm gonna give it the two because it's a it's big and meaningful to this character. So is as hard as it is to not give it to two. Like, I don't want to, because it's not like there's really anything consequential happening here if he doesn't do it. But this needs to be there for him. This has to happen for him. Yeah, he can't learn this from world-saving events. It needs to be personal in this movie, and I think it works better here. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 4:40:15

I I gave it a one though.

SPEAKER_02 4:40:17

Yeah, I'm with you. But anyway, technically there's really no danger if you just leave alone, no one's gonna get hurt.

SPEAKER_04 4:40:22

So rewatchability and MCU impact. This is the difference. This is a solid two, maybe five. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 4:40:28

This might be a four.

SPEAKER_04 4:40:29

I was gonna say, this is definitely at least a two of the of the two. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:40:33

I mean, it proves that this part of a hot take thing that I've always I almost said it as a hot take, I'll say it now. But this needs the Iron Man stuff in it too. Because, like, not that it needs it to be a good movie, but bec embedding this so deep into the MCU is what makes this feel so alive and fresh. Because they're they're not just tiptoeing around being part of the MCU, but they're just like, we're just gonna go all in, we're in. And and then and uh part of it's gotta do, I think, with the contract stuff. The more they involve it in, the easier it's gonna be later to have them show up to and do things.

SPEAKER_00 4:41:12

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 4:41:12

But with that though, it's just the perfect choice to do it. So but rewatchability, this is such an easy watch.

SPEAKER_04 4:41:18

It is. If and you know what? Anyone who just likes Spider-Man and just wants to see him do Spider-Man things, a good chunk of this movie is literally just that. And that's cool. I watched it three times and I didn't get sick of it. So yeah, yep. This is a great, great movie, great origin movie. Um, all right, guys, so final score.

SPEAKER_02 4:41:40

So I did, like I said, I have to be honest about I got can't I don't want to look at it through rose-colored glasses. I'm gonna be honest about the things I do have trouble with it, and pacing issues in the beginning, villain stuff, not having stuff to like all the things in between the great ones, not so good. Um I don't I I definitely don't like the idea that we have a bad guy all because the government won't subsidize out. It makes no sense. I mean, I don't know if that's gonna count against the guys. I know it's just a hot take, but um I'm gonna be honest though. I'm gonna give it an 8.5. Oh, you gave it higher than I thought? Yeah, is it because I struggled. I'm like, man, I almost want to do a nine because I do enjoy it that much. Wow. But I'm just like, if the villain scenes in between the good scenes were better, this would have been an easy, solid nine, almost 9.5. But there's just some pacing because of that stuff that I'm gonna I'm gonna go 8.5 because I truly love love this movie. I enjoy it a lot.

SPEAKER_04 4:42:46

Well, I initially was gonna give it an eight out of ten. Wow. But there are some things that you've pointed out in this movie that really do make a bigger impact to me on some of these scenes. So I'm just gonna match yours by going up that half a point extra. I think a 8.5 is a solid, it's a solid score. I agree with you, it's not a nine until they if they had fixed Tombs' henchmen there or his crew, I should say, but they act more like henchmen, they made them either a little more purposeful or even a little less of seeing them, to be honest. We didn't need too many of them. Yeah, honestly, you almost could have taken them out and maybe it wouldn't have made it better. Yes, yeah. So, but I I completely agree with you. So I'm gonna get I'm gonna do the same thing. 8.5. I feel that 0.5 is deserved because what is good is excellent. So this movie is official Goodell Multiverse score is 8.5 out of 10. I think that makes sense. It does. I can see that on the poster. Yeah, me too. I think that's pretty cool. All right, one sentence, last sentence, final review.

SPEAKER_02 4:43:51

Yeah, this guy, if you haven't watched it, I mean, what's wrong with you? Um, and on top of it, this is how you do a movie without having to do an origin, and it works just fine. So watch this movie. Spider-Man, my favorite Spider-Man, Tom Holland. He's great. Love the other guys too, don't me wrong, but this is they definitely it's awesome.

SPEAKER_04 4:44:11

Love them. I love the scene that's on right now where he says, I need your car, and then he drives the car and he's driving it through everything. Be like, oh my gosh. This is funny, yeah. Even on the phone with Ned, he goes, I stole Flash's car. He goes, Oh, that's awesome. He's like, How do I turn the headlights on? He's going back and forth. And oh, you know, I forgot that funny moment too is when the teacher catches him and Ned just says he doesn't want to say anything about Spider-Man, so he says watching porn. You're like, oh man. You could have picked anything. You now pick opened up a whole can of worms that's gonna be devastating for you, anyways. So my last sentence final review is don't dismiss this Spider-Man movie. I feel like of all the Spider-Man movies that are out there, this movie for some reason gets ranked from some Spider-Man fans as one of the lowest ones. And it's not because it's bad, I'm saying. I think that they're doing it because they're they're looking at all these other ones and they're like, oh, this one's just better, this one's just better here, and all that. This movie is a gem that I don't think people really appreciate it as much as they should. So don't sleep on this movie.

SPEAKER_02 4:45:14

That's my sense in final review. Do they think it's lowest out of the trilogy or out of all of them? One of the lowest. They um they including like the old ones, or are they just the trilogy?

SPEAKER_04 4:45:25

If I remember right, they've put like the amazing Spider-Man one and two, and then Spider-Man three, and then Homecoming. And then they then they put Spider-Man one, and then it's uh Far From Home, and then it I think if I remember right, I've seen a couple of old ones. They're including all Spider-Man.

SPEAKER_02 4:45:44

Because to me, this is the lowest of this this trilogy. Yes. For me personally. Um I like the second one more than I like this first one.

SPEAKER_04 4:45:53

Yes. I got a lot to say about that one. I can't wait till we get to the second one so I can get a better view for myself personally, because this one was pretty darn good. But from what I remember, there are elements of the second one that are well certain things in the second one that they go for, and it's like, wow.

SPEAKER_02 4:46:06

Yes. And it works. Yeah, I agree. But out of the group of them all, this is better than all the old ones. Don't be wrong, guys. Toby McGuire's, I love Toby McGuire's Spider-Man. Except for MJ. Um yeah. But in Spider-Man 2 is an exceptional movie for sure. Yep. And like I said, Best Villain with the Green Goblin. It's some of the best stuff in that first movie. And and Andrew Garfield's ones are fine. The second one, not so much. You know, there's some things I don't like about it, but things I love about it. That first Andrew Garfield one was dope. Um, but this is better than those. If we're looking at better put together and story, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 4:46:45

Sorry, I mean I think the Tobin McGuire ones, they're put on the pedestal because it was the first big Marvel movie that made blockbuster money besides X-Men. But X-Men got there after I think the first one. I think Spider-Man one did beat it because it's Spider-Man. Um, and so he's now a legacy trilogy, but I completely agree with you for Spider-Man stuff. I think this is a little bit better. Yeah. Yeah. And it's not dismissing the other ones, it's just that the this is they're at a point now where they could put him into the MCU and make him a true full-fledged Spider-Man movie. And it's thanks to what Toby McGuire did before that we were able to do some of these stuff, but it's not objectively, this is a better movie.

SPEAKER_02 4:47:32

Well, let's call it for what it is. It's because it's in the hands of the people that know the character better. Yes, yeah, yes, actually. You did a great job and all that, but it's back in Marvel where it should be. And these are the guys that made the storyline. So they know what they're doing. So this feels like Spider-Man. Yep. When you watch the old Spider-Man cartoon, where is he? He's in high school, right? Yep. Those other ones aren't. All of them start out with him graduating.

unknown 4:47:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:47:57

This is the only one that dares to say we're still in school. For two movies, actually. You know, it's not even actually all the way up to the third one. We're still in school.

SPEAKER_04 4:48:05

Yeah, the third one he's still in school because he has to go to GED because he didn't graduate.

SPEAKER_02 4:48:08

You're talking about trilogy of him in school when the other movies began with him graduating almost. Exactly. You're talking these guys know the character better. It's just that's why it's a better movie.

SPEAKER_00 4:48:19

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:48:20

All right. So I guess what are we up to next, Ike? So next week, let me grab my thing to remind me, guys. I can't wait. It's uh we're gonna be doing oh, thank you so much. I had the paper hidden over here. So next week, guys, oh my goodness, we're gonna do a retro branch point review of the Guardian's holiday special. Kevin Bacon. I can't wait to get to it. I love it. Kevin Bacon. I love these characters. Um, that'll be a fun one to get to. And then we're gonna do, oh man, this is gonna be a good time, y'all. We're gonna be doing our retrospective of Thor Ragnarok, and we got some stuff to talk about with that. And you know, yeah, that's gonna be similar to this movie in a lot of ways, to be honest. So I'm looking forward to doing it. It's yeah, definitely might be my favorite Thor movie, to be honest. It's it's it threw us for a loop when we first saw it. It did. This is that movie we did all this guessing, we sat down for a long time, and we guessed what's gonna happen from beginning to end. And you, I swear to god, you should have someone needed to come over with a shovel to pick our jaws up off the ground when they start the movie with Surter. And we thought no way would I have thought.

SPEAKER_04 4:49:29

We were like, what the heck's gonna happen? I honestly was worried at that moment that the wrest was gonna go downhill because you start off with the big bad right there. And oh no. Yeah, oh no.

SPEAKER_02 4:49:38

When this when that scene was done, we kind of looked at each other, we're almost like, is this movie gonna suck? And then we're like, nope. But like when in fact, I remember us talking about the trailers before we went and watched it, saying, Man, showing surgery. Do you think they showed too much of this movie? They didn't show you nothing. Like it was like it's it's so good. I love that they did that, so it's awesome.

SPEAKER_04 4:49:57

I completely agree. And I only thing I'm gonna say for my little preview of it is I remember going into Thor Ragnarok and I had conflicting feelings about it because of the tonal difference they decided to do. But over time, and I know I'm gonna feel this in my retrospective, it it is really well done for that. And I was actually shocked. At the moment, I was like, oh wow, because I always told you guys, my favorite Thor is kind of like the the Avengers 2 and Dark World Thor. I like that version of Thor. But what they did in Ragnarok was great too. So I'm excited to revisit that. All right, guys. So um, where where can where can they find us?

SPEAKER_02 4:50:39

Yeah, find us online, guys, on YouTube's, uh, and we're we're on the internets all over the place. You can find us here's Facebook, we're on all the Spotify stuff, or Spotify, um, Instagram, anywhere that you can listen to a podcast, you can listen to us, you watch us on uh on um YouTube, and you could watch it in segments if you want to. Yeah, guys, like, subscribe, tell your friends, tell your enemies, tell everybody. You know, it's just you know, let's get the petition out there, Jared Leno as Gambit. Let's uh let's have a good time. And you know, happy birthday to the United States, man.

SPEAKER_04 4:51:15

Yes, yes, 200. Yeah, we're filming this on July 3rd. So by the time you see it, it's July 4th, July 5th. So happy birthday, America. And it's hot. Oh, yeah. It's uh it's it's it's a it, you know, 250 years and 250 degrees in here. Yeah, it's uh we're gonna put our stuff away, and in 10 minutes we're gonna, I'm gonna be in the pool. So I'll see you.

SPEAKER_02 4:51:36

You guys have a good day. Thanks for watching.

SPEAKER_04 4:51:38

You too. Happy Independence Day and see you at the movies.