Ep18 - Thor Ragnarok Retrospective with Guardians Holiday Special Review

The Goodell Bros discuss the latest news - including X-Men '97 S2 Ep4 Review, Spider-Man on ScreenX, and PlayStation Scandal - the lay out the latest rumors - including Spidey for Sale, Anya Taylor Joy returning, and the Multiverse lasting longer than expected - then breakdown Guardians Holiday Special before the main event: Thor Ragnarok Retrospective.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

On every timeline in every universe, there's one thing that we always talk about. Marvel. Hello, everybody. Welcome to the Goodell Multiverse. I'm Isaiah Goodell. And I'm Sam Goodell. And we got a nice episode for you today. We've got a lot of fun stuff we're going to get to. You excited for this one today, Sam? Oh yeah. Yeah, me too. A good movie this time, guys. Everything, actually, everything's pretty positive, other than our news stuff. So I'm going to kind of give you a little agenda here of what we're going to do on our show if you're new to it. Um, and like, subscribe, share with your friends, all that fun stuff, guys. Comment below all the things you know you can do. We'll remind you again at the end. But we're gonna first we're gonna go over the multiverse minute, and we're gonna give you our thoughts on episode four of X-Men 97. It's a good one, y'all. And uh, does it look like the next news segment or the news part is gonna be is it possible that Disney found a loophole around IMAX? We're gonna find out. It's possible. And uh, you know, it's been nice knowing you, PlayStation, but it might be time to say bye, Felicia. So we're gonna talk about that situation, which you all are probably very aware of right now. Then we're gonna go into our room rundown, and we're gonna talk about how much Spider-Man might actually be worth. And if it's gonna be worth what Marvel might be putting up for it. And we're also gonna talk about some mutants. They gotta cast them, so we're gonna be talking about some casting stuff with them, and then we're gonna talk about Avengers not so secret wars, right? What it's gonna be. So let's see how it goes there. Then we'll have our breakpoint uh branch point breakdown. Did that all backwards, y'all. But this is a good one. It's uh Guardian's Christmas special, which is awesome. I wish more things would do Christmas specials back in a time when that was a thing. I'm glad they did it, and it's we'll have a great time talking about it. And then our retrospective guys, our big main event for our March to Doomsday, we're talking about Thor Ragnarok. I mean, how much more exciting can that be? Not only now Thor and one other movie closer to Infinity War, but it's also Thor Ragnarok, guys. And you know, it's we got a lot of thoughts and a lot of cool things we got to say about that. So you excited for this or what?

SPEAKER_00 2:04

I am so excited. I think that I think some of the news things that we have uh planned for you guys is gonna be very entertaining, and I'm I'm looking forward to it. I'm looking forward to our rumors, and sounds like Kevin Feige wants to keep a little magic in to the X-Men. So there's a little bit of a hint right there on one of the topics, but I'm excited to talk about them and dive into them and see what the heck they're all about and things like that. Um, yeah, and of course, the Guardian special. That's gonna be fun. Yeah, this is gonna be cool. I kind of like that we're actually doing it in July, Christmas in July a little bit. We got a little treat there, so that's gonna be fun.

SPEAKER_02 2:39

It's definitely weird re-watching it and it's like hot out.

SPEAKER_00 2:41

Yeah, yeah. This feels like a weird time to watch this one. I know I'm listening to Christmas music and I'm like, oh, this is July. Like I'm sweating as I'm watching it. It's like this is something's wrong, anyways. But Thor Ragnarok holy smokes. Uh you ask your any casual Marvel fan or even just movie going fan or casual MCU fan, and Thor Ragnarok is like right up there at the top, and so I'm excited to dive into this boy and see what interesting takes.

SPEAKER_02 3:11

I got some stuff to say, and I got some real fun tidbits in the movie that I didn't realize until now, and maybe I should have. And y'all can say, Well, what the hell, dude? We all knew this. If that's the case, hey, my bad, it went right over my head. But there's some stuff that didn't go in out this time around. I was like, oh wow, it's actually really unique.

SPEAKER_00 3:29

And well, I I'm glad you have those thoughts because I'm I've been thinking about it too, and I'm watching it get my third or fourth time watching the movie, and you know, that's why we do these retrospectives, and that's why you guys should enjoy it when we're when you're listening to us or you're watching us on YouTube or whatever, because we have to do a deep dive into these movies. Everything that's meta about it, we have to be able to figure it out and know, and then talk about how does that fit into the overall story and the MCU at large or the character at large. And I think I think this movie is gonna be really fun to dissect like that.

SPEAKER_02 4:02

Yeah, and it's you know, the cool thing about the magic of it, and we'll probably say this a few times as we go, and it's it's I want to say it now too, because uh it's something that it reminds me when we do a movie like this, reminds me why we're doing this. Because you could sit down with a friend and like you and I did one night for like four or five hours, and we ranked all the MCU movies in every all the projects actor, just like we're doing right now. But then at when you're thinking about it, you're kind of like, you know, but maybe this one you don't remember, or this one, okay, maybe that would go there or what. The fact that we're going real deep on them and really picking them apart and finding maybe some meaning behind them, some brilliance that was there, or mistakes that we didn't realize, like we found out in a couple of the other ones. That was we're surprised to feel that we did about a couple of them that we thought were a little higher, you know. And so this is as legitimate, as close to an honest rating we can give them when we do it like this.

SPEAKER_04 4:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:56

You know, so when we do give those tens or nines or eights, know that it's been watched two or three times, picked apart. So it's not just our initial, like, oh, we just watched it, we're just gonna talk about it. It's we're really looking. And I personally, I I go into so I don't know about you, but my first watch is just a reminder. Yes. My second watch, I'm taking notes. My third watch is I'm looking for the things I missed. And if I can get to a fourth, or at least sometimes if I can't get to a fourth, I definitely get to watching scenes again. And that's when I'm actually looking for problems.

SPEAKER_00 5:29

Yeah, I agree. I I'm in the second thing.

SPEAKER_02 5:31

I'm definitely looking for the problem, right?

SPEAKER_00 5:33

Your pattern is exactly like mine. I uh just like you said, I'm just gonna repeat a little bit of that. I I watched the first time just to absorb it. It's been a while since I watched it on purpose because we're doing this podcast. And I'm like, wow. And I'm trying, I remember the feelings of when I first watched it a long time ago. And then the second watch, I have my notes already. I'm starting to fill in the blanks on these different spots. And by the third watch, I'm really giving it those scores of and at least initial scores, still living, leaving a little wiggle room in case you know our minds get a little changed as we're doing this podcast, of course. But the the overall score basically of each act and everything, that's that's where I'm kind of writing it down. And if it's an enjoyable movie, I get into the fourth watch or onward, especially if it's an enjoyable movie, the first three. And like you said, I need to see if there are any faults and really critically look at it. Because if it's a bad movie, you can watch it two times, maybe three, and be like, all right, there's so much wrong with it, it's easy to tell you what what's wrong with it. But yeah, but the good ones.

SPEAKER_02 6:37

This I'm gonna give you a little tease, and hopefully, when you're watching this intro, guys, it makes you want to go and find this part of the video and watch it, and this is what we want to do, and this is a tease for you too, just much as with Sam. This is our first retrospective I've done, and I have no score for any of them yet. For any of the scenes or the acts or the end. I do not have a score yet. I'm literally gonna come up with the score based off of our conversation.

SPEAKER_04 7:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:02

So it's and that it's there's a reason for that. Because if I part of me feels like my take on this and what I've found and how I see this movie, I might be wrong, and I think I could be persuaded that it's wrong. You know, so part of it is I want to see your reaction, or maybe, you know, just have an idea of where the conversation goes, because I'll know if I say something just right and it hits flat, I might be like, oh man, that's just in my head. And that's that will make a difference on my score, you know. Or or even the fact, or if you even argue it back with me if there's something I say and you say, but wait, did you ever think of this? It might even still make a difference a different way, you know. And I just I don't know. I don't know where to put this movie. Like where our conversation is definitely gonna have a lot to do with where this movie goes. Yeah. First time. Yes, first time I've had this. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:51

I tell you, Thor Ragnarok, I've been anticipating it, and now we're on what, episode 18? 18, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:57

We're 18 movies, nice 17 movies in technically. Yeah. About to do the 18th, and this is the first time I'm like, I really don't know what to give it yet. Yeah, we're doing it now.

SPEAKER_00 8:05

And it's yeah, and it's oh, this movie was something I've been anticipating because it's it's it's it's quite a 180 a little bit in some degrees, but we're gonna talk about in a minute, folks. That's right, guys.

SPEAKER_02 8:19

But first, we're gonna get to our multiverse minute. So stick around, enjoy these, comment whenever you guys can. Like, subscribe, share. Thanks for being with us today. Let's get into this, guys.

SPEAKER_00 8:34

Okay, guys, it's our news segment of the week. Our multiverse minute, even though it's 45 minutes. So I'm gonna start the sucker off, guys, with the the first, we're gonna do a little review, a mini review of this. So, X-Men 97 season two, episode four, called Rise of Apocalypse Part 2. An alliance between the X-Men and N Sabanur begins to crumble as Ramatut seeks ultimate power. That's the whole gist of the episode in a nutshell, officially released by Marvel. Now let's talk about it. Holy smokes. Yeah, like he is. Wow.

SPEAKER_01 9:18

What are your thoughts, I guess? So here's my thoughts.

SPEAKER_02 9:23

First of all, the stuff between Magneto and Xavier is so good. I love the conversations. I love that it's almost like Magneto's Xavier at this point, but Xavier's so good about knowing what the right thing to do is, and sometimes the right thing to do is not change something that's gonna become real bad because there could be different repercussions from that. And Magneto's just doing his typical, but this is the time to make a difference, and I'm gonna do something now. And here you are, you got this now. Now, it's almost like in doing so with this episode, and spoiler alert if y'all haven't watched it yet, but I'm gonna talk about some of the stuff. It's at the end of this episode, it's almost like Magneto may have been responsible for creating such an evil guy, you know, or such a guy that's got so much hate in him. Because now the truth is out, and it's all in apocalypse pissed, you know, and they're in the middle of a battle, and then this guy does his thing on top of it. So it's like there's a lot going on here, and I like this. I I like the characters, I like uh that it man, there's some blood in this and everything. Like they went all out. Like, and I I do enjoy this show a lot, and it it tells me more that man, we needed to see this young version of apocalypse. I think it's so cool. And it also tells me that if you're gonna do an eventual movie that is kind of like an Avengers X-Men versus Apocalypse, do a two-parter with a young apocalypse versus the apocalypse in the future. Yep. Like in that sense of where you we get to see that dynamic because to me, it's almost like this is a good formula, this would work hands down really well, you know, in that kind of setting. So it it just so my I mean, I don't really have much more to say about it other than that. You know, it's still great, gives me the feels I like seeing these characters that I feel like I'm watching the old show again, but yet still with a fresh take, you know, and uh yeah, I I I'm gonna stand by my statement. This this would make adapting this storyline with a little bit of maybe some twists and turns for fun to do something different into a live action thing would be so awesome. Yeah, I'd be for it so fast.

SPEAKER_00 11:26

Like, you know. I gotta tell you what I the thing that I loved about this episode is they made it very clear, no matter how it was gonna go down, Apocalypse was destined to become the apocalypse that you know of from the comics and that they know of from the future. It didn't matter if it was Magneto leading him that way or whatever, because it looks like the Celestials had that technology there and they prophesied Xavier and Magneto there with him on the hieroglyphics. So whether they were gonna stumble upon it intentionally, like in this episode, they purposely go right to it, thinking, oh, this can help them. And then when they get there, it's the slow realization of, oh my god, this is apocalypse ship. We led him right to his ultimate weapon, and in his ultimate weapon is what he's supposed to be. It wouldn't have mattered if Magneto actually did trick him to go in there or not, because I don't think I think that Magneto definitely plays that he toes that line of I'm either gonna lead you to become what you are gonna be, or his intentions are noble, but they don't turn out that way. Because that's kind of like Magneto's MO is kind of like that too. Yes, where his intentions are we want peace, but it's how you get about it. And I think always a problem with that. Yes, exactly. And he and Xavier kind of want the same thing, it's just they don't know how the they don't tackle it the same way, and that's why you always have him, uh Magneto, as like this. Yes, he's a bad guy, but he at the end of the day, he he's not that bad. You know what I mean? Especially in this, he's not vicious, right? He's just my way or the highway, and my way is gonna get you to that that destination the same way Xavier's is, but Xavier is going the longer route around that's longer lasting. Whereas Magneto is right there directly, shove it down your throat, and who cares if it lasts or not, I'm gonna make it last.

SPEAKER_02 13:25

Well, because like you kind of said about Magneto before in our retros of a lot of stuff we talked about, is sort of the X-Men stuff, is he's he's looking at this uh through a survival lens. Yeah. When when Xavier's looking at it through a different lens, yeah. You know, but in Magneto, it's like if there's an opportunity to make a difference, you've gotta do it when it's there. You know, you know, hence days of future past killing, trying to kill Mystique. Of course he's gonna do that. It makes sense for him. Because he's like, look, if she's gone, they never make the sentinels at all.

SPEAKER_04 13:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:58

And it's like he's not wrong, but is he is not? Like he's still kind of wrong, right?

SPEAKER_04 14:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:03

So it's it's definitely, yeah. In the cartoon versions, I'll be honest. The movie versions, Xavier's much more persuasive because you gotta you because Magneto can feel scary in the movies. Like, I I've I personally I'd be more persuaded by Xavier than Magneto personally in the movies. But in the cartoon, I gotta tell you, they do a great job at uh if I was in Sabonor, I'd be listening to Magneto too. You know what I mean? Like Magneto's impressive, he's up there hovering, what bearded Gandalf looking, you know what I mean? Like, I'd be like, yeah, this guy knows his things. Look at his power, he knows his things. Like, I'm gonna listen to him. There's other guys in a chair that you know, wait a minute, are these invented yet? You know what I mean? Like, yeah, he's literally in looking at something. I mean, the chair definitely does not look like it fits into the time frame. And nobody says anything about it.

SPEAKER_03 14:49

Like, I didn't even notice that to now. No one's like, what is this? Which is cool, but like, yeah, no one's like, wait a minute.

SPEAKER_02 14:56

Yeah. Because you know, to them back then, like when you're when you're hurt like that, I don't think they have wheelchairs. Maybe they did. I don't know. We'll have to look it up. Comment below. Let us know the Egyptians have wheelchairs. I don't know. Yeah, well, you don't know what the pyramids are for. Either way, they weren't like this wheelchair. His wheelchair definitely does not look like it's from there at all. He's he's got the 90s wheelchair. I'm surprised it's not floating and nobody says nothing. You know what I mean? Like, but yeah, it's Xavier's not very persuasive in this, you know. He's actually more scared, which is interesting though, because I think it's gonna play a lot later.

unknown 15:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:26

I think Magneto's gonna have to be humbled, and Xavier's gonna have to be a little more militant as we go. Well, it's gonna be interesting to see how that goes down.

SPEAKER_00 15:33

I'm glad you point that out because I feel like they did that intentionally. Yeah, Magneto is a little more bolder than Xavier is, and Xavier, I think he's letting the fact that this is young apocalypse kind of play in the back of his brain whenever he's acting whenever he's talking to him and he's deciding what to do and what not to do, and things like that, because it's Magneto has taken that bold approach of we can change him, we can fix him, we can be able to make this a better future and we can do it now. Where Xavier is hesitant because he knows what Apocalypse is gonna do in the future, and so he doesn't want to rock the boat and make unintentionally push him over the edge.

SPEAKER_02 16:16

Which, yeah, which is funny because you almost think it's the reversal, yeah, right.

SPEAKER_00 16:21

Yeah, but yeah, and I see it, but I think him letting Xavier letting that overthinking basically come in the way of that. It's just gonna it well, we found out in this episode it's gonna happen the way it's gonna happen. And I will say a couple of my standout moments, and one of them is actually on the screen right now. I love Rogue's conversation, but guys, we're playing it in the background. That's my favorite moment, too. His conversation or rogue's conversation with Insabinure about loving someone and being able to have a love. And he talks about how no one's ever loved him, his mother casts him aside, his people cast him aside. He is an outcast, and so he finds love as a weakness and all that stuff. I love when Rogue says, Well, I do hope for your sake you do find, I hope you find someone for all of our sakes. She literally just says that for all of our sakes, and I'm like, Oh my gosh, that's so true. Be like, if you can say that's him for all of our sakes, you better find some love, okay? You better find you a wife because otherwise you're gonna come after us.

SPEAKER_02 17:20

But and you know what's funny because Xavier sometimes he looks at him in this, and like even in a cartoon, I see some of the nuances. Yeah, where he's kind of looking at him like, I'm afraid of you. Yes, you are a scary guy. Yes, and it's like and it's it you could tell that it's in the room, is heavy.

SPEAKER_04 17:36

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 17:36

You know, the thingy with the rogue scene, this you know why it's my standout moment too? Because scenes like that, when we get further in this show and we see the future apocalypse do some terrible things, we're gonna see that he's had some history with people, and it's gonna the the feels are gonna be there more than you ever had before. They're doing that's what I would do with a movie version. I would have that first Avengers X-Men versus Apocalypse movie with you know Avengers with the X behind it, Apocalypse, at the first one would be them trying to convince Apocalypse young apocalypse to be good. Yeah. And then you have all these awesome moments of heart to heart, so the conversation like they just had, or maybe or Xavier even is like, maybe there is hope here. You know, then when you get to the next one and he kills someone like Ro for the hell of it, and you're like, Man, you remember that conversation they had? And it's like the evilness of that and the meanness of that, the the tragic of that would be just like guys, pure entertainment. We would just be like it would engulf us. They're getting us set up for that, for the cartoon, at least for sure. Yeah, having these good moments where you're like, you like this guy, and you I like that scene with them. And then so later when he beats Rogan to the ground, you know, it's like we're gonna remember, man. Remember that scene around the fire they had?

SPEAKER_00 18:51

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 18:52

It's like whoa, it's messed up. Like it's just emotional.

SPEAKER_00 18:55

Like I'm happy that Marvel actually is doing it. And this is something we touched upon in our last episode about this, because they're already showing what they could do with the X-Men. Yes, that it makes me anticipate how we're gonna see the live action versions just to see is it gonna mimic this a little bit? Are they gonna take the best parts of this and put it in there? Because this show proves they can make Apocalypse be the next Thanos and be deeper than Thanos. Yes, bigger than Thanos, more evil than Thanos, deeper than Thanos, and more personal. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 19:26

Which is yeah why it makes it so good. It's why it's being an X-Men themed thing. The more personal you get, the more drama you're gonna get, and that's what makes X-Men so good. Yeah, you have a still have a lot more optimism than me. I feel like these departments don't talk to each other enough, and I think they need to be able to do that. I think the problem with the other shows we have is because there wasn't a lot of well, hey, why don't you make sure this and this? Because this is what's going on over here. Yeah, I'm hoping that these guys who's writing this are kind of whispering to the guys who are putting together the X-Men movie, or at least maybe they're watching the show, realizing, hey remember we if we have a question for a character, maybe what we should do, tap into all your resources that work for you because these guys know what they're talking about right now.

SPEAKER_00 20:07

This looks this is great. Well, I think what you just said is you tapped into something that was a problem, phase four, five, and six. I think they were shoveling out so much and getting in production so many things that they don't realize any character growth or development from one one movie or project to the next, and it's falling flat. And people weren't talking to each other because people like Kevin Feige, who usually could be the maestro behind the scenes of doing all this, he's pulled in five different directions. Yeah, and so somewhere a ball is gonna drop. And when it does, you're gonna see it in your box office, in your reception, in everything.

SPEAKER_05 20:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:42

So, anyways, so the just to move on from that and to get this topic a little bit wrapped up a little bit. Let's talk about that end of it, unless there's something right before that you want to talk about.

SPEAKER_02 20:53

That's fine.

SPEAKER_00 20:54

Yeah. I uh one thing I yelled at the screen when Apocalypse is about to touch the gem, and I'm like, Xavier, hit him with your mind. He does it later. You do it too late. Oh my gosh. I literally was yelling at the screen. I'm like, you're just laying there, Xavier, watching him do it. And then after he touches it, he decides, no, I'm gonna get in your mind. I'm like, dude, yeah, you are too late. What the heck? Anyways, that was a pet peeve of mine. I get their creative choice in doing it, but I was I was literally yelling at the TV, like, do it! You know you could do it. And then when they do it two minutes later, I'm like, you're too late.

SPEAKER_04 21:35

Yeah, what the heck, man?

SPEAKER_00 21:36

What in the world? Anyways, so that point aside, I I did like the touching moment of Magneto said, I promise I'm gonna get you into the future, and he does, and he says, I'm gonna fix this mess because he feels the responsibility and the weight of bringing Apocalypse there and having Apocalypse realize his prophecy type thing. Um, and then uh Xavier grabs Magneto's cape and Holds on and stays. That was cool. Yeah. That was pretty cool. But also the the very end. When Apocalypse goes full on Apocalypse, and he's got that big animated grin from the old 90s show, which this is that old 90s show, but it's modern, it's modern old if you get what I mean, you know, continuation, but 20 years later. So um yeah, and then what he does to Magneto, that was boring.

SPEAKER_02 22:32

Oh man, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:34

That and the uh every moment of that is like whoa, what like it's it's almost slow motion, and you're wondering how is he gonna do it? Is he gonna crush him? Then he turns it into a gun. I'm like, oh my, then when he starts to do the blast, and you see a skeleton, I'm like, holy smokes!

SPEAKER_04 22:52

Yeah, they went there.

SPEAKER_00 22:54

Yeah, like that's huge. That was that was the one moment that I'm like, this he is scary.

SPEAKER_01 23:02

He's very scary.

SPEAKER_00 23:03

Yes, and I will give a compliment to this version of the show. Come, and we've talked about this before. I know Ike and I should say have talked about this before. Putting the 90s animated apocalypse into a live-action movie would not have worked because he is so bombastic, so over the top, and at times a little too comedic and a little too egotistical that it works for a cartoon, but when we saw Oscar Isaac's performance, we're like, that's exactly how he should be. Yes. This version of Apocalypse, it blends both the Oscar Isaac tone and the 90s tone in a beautiful marriage between each other, where yes, Oscar Isaac could put on this type of performance. And I can see this as a live action, and I think a lot more of the fans of both of those iterations of him would love this. Yeah. And and this is coming from a fan who loves the Oscar Isaac version because I understand the meaning of Oscar Isaac's version. I understand the depth of it that a lot of people glaze over. When we get to that X-Men special retrospective of X-Men Apocalypse, you guys better watch and listen to it because I'm gonna tell you every little bit about why that is one of the best movies they ever made, hands down. And Apocalypse is the biggest reason why. But we're gonna get there, folks. And if you don't, you don't like what I said, please stick stick with us because I will tell you as we go along.

SPEAKER_02 24:32

But yeah, I I I I still think Tom Hardy is the young version of him, would be, especially when you look at the stuff in this. Like I feel like Tom would play this part so well. What a great role for him to be in that. Yeah. But yeah, no, either way, yeah, guys, we'll move on because it's we could talk for a long time. I love this stuff here too. It's so it's he's scary. He's a scary individual.

SPEAKER_00 24:52

Yes, he is intimidating to look at. And I could picture when you put that in live action, how he'd look. Oh my gosh, he will creep you out just standing there.

SPEAKER_02 25:00

Yeah, I gotta give a lot of praise to the artwork in this in this new This season's turned out to be pretty darn good. I like that they set the stage of season one and like, yeah, it was good, it was good, it was X-Men. But now it's like they're just like, oh yeah, well, here's what we got.

SPEAKER_00 25:14

It's like, whoa, it's like you can tell they took their time with this, and I appreciate that because it's it's masterful. It's great. Um, and then the Ramatut thing, the finding out that Ramatut, and he's like he's like, you know what? It was destined to be apocalypse anyways. I'm just gonna go away. Yeah, you didn't have to beat him, it just had to get apocalypse to this stage of being apocalypse. Yeah, exactly. Okay, guy, thanks. Yeah, so anyways, yeah, and then yeah, Magneto's death scene. Xavier's dialogue afterwards.

SPEAKER_02 25:51

That's some of the stuff I'm talking about that I love.

SPEAKER_00 25:53

Some I'm trying to remember the exact wording, but he says something like, Your mother made the wisest choice in abandoning you. Like he went dark. Xavier went super dark, like darker than I think that I've ever heard Xavier go. In those couple dialogues.

SPEAKER_02 26:11

He yeah, he hates him. Yes. Like if there's a more like this, I like that they're making Apocalypse's mortal enemy in this. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 26:18

Which they kind of did in the movie too. They did Oscar Isaacs.

SPEAKER_00 26:22

Like they did.

SPEAKER_01 26:23

Yes. The whole idea of what's going on there.

SPEAKER_02 26:26

Like it was when they're up on the mountain in that, he's like, he realizes he's like the most powerful. Yeah. You know, he's just like, I'm gonna use you, and he's just like, oh man, this guy. Like, anyways, we're gonna talk about it.

SPEAKER_00 26:37

Yeah, I feel like, and I'm not saying this is the bad thing about the X-Men Apocalypse movie, but I feel like this show captured the emotional death of Xavier a little more so than the movie. But of course, the movie at when you get to that point, it's a little fast pace, all that stuff. So that's totally forgiven. I understand, but I can see James McAvoy giving that same exact dialogue and performance to him. Yeah, the movie. If he had killed the darkness, yes, if he had killed Magneto in that last scene before Phoenix and all that stuff come out, he would have said that those exactly hands down. I'm glad we did get to see it though, because now we get to see the potential of what could be type thing. Yeah, I'm not happy Magneto's dead. No, but is he dead? Yeah, well, that's true. That version of him is dead, but that's that's that's the thing about these. But anyways. But it's like let him, it's okay if he does. Yeah. And to me, it though it just makes apocalypse even. I was gonna say, it sets the tone for who apocalypse is, and you needed uh something like that to happen. Yeah, I agree. So, anyways, uh any more do you want to add to this?

SPEAKER_02 27:37

I can't wait for the next for the next parts of this.

SPEAKER_00 27:39

Yeah, I'm I'm excited for that post-credits or that teaser scene. Yeah, it was a post-credit scene of Wolverine meeting with uh Captain America and Black Widow and Black Widow's outfit. Oh Lord have mercy. But it is comic accurate, so I'll give it to them. But yeah, part of me is looking at them like, oh, the pixie haircut and that white outfit. Who designed that? Yeah, anyways. But question is for you guys. What did you think of X-Men 97, season two, episode four? This Rise of Apocalypse Part 2. Did you like it as much as we did? Do you see the potential of this being a live live adaptation version and how cool it could be? And what do you think about apocalypse in general? Let us know in the comments below. Alright. Okay, I take it away for our next one.

SPEAKER_02 28:24

Alright, guys, so our next one is let's talk about how much Spider-Man might actually be worth. Alright, guys, so hey America, can go see Spider-Man and IMAX. Uh, or that's yeah, that's I'm talking. That's the next I'm gonna do this. I'm sorry, guys, that was a rumor one. I saw Spider-Man, uh, it's been on my mind about them selling, maybe selling it. We're gonna talk about the IMAX situation with Spider-Man. Whew. Well, then I was looking over here at this track. You guys know how it goes. Anyways, is it okay? Yes. So hey America, everybody out there in YouTube's land, India, America, China. I don't think anyone in China's watching this. Um can't go see Spider-Man in IMAX uh yet want a unique and immersive experience? We all do, especially Spider-Man, but it's real cool. Well, it appears that brand new day will make cinema history as the first film entry shot in a 270-degree panoramic format, making Screen X the ideal movie experience.

SPEAKER_00 29:27

Mm-hmm. I did not know any of this until a poll up on Me too. And I'm I'm looking into this and I'm like, holy smokes.

SPEAKER_01 29:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:37

So I'm not I was not too familiar with Screen X2. I think you've heard about it maybe. I've heard about it, but I never have dove into it.

SPEAKER_02 29:45

You're like, I'm never, I'm like, what is this all about?

SPEAKER_00 29:47

Yeah. So we have pictures on the video version of this, guys, by the way, that's to my left or right, wherever the heck it is. And you get to see what it is. So it is like it says, it's so screen X is a 270-degree panoramic format of a movie. So you have your screen in front of you, and then literally you look to your left and to your right, and it's still the movie, which is kind of cool. But the problem is all the movies up until this point, they have added those side views post-production. So you're not really you're seeing like the landscape of New York City, but you're not seeing little other things going on. This movie in particular, for some reason, not only is it filmed for IMAX, of course, because I did film this for IMAX, everything nowadays is almost filmed for IMAX, but they specifically filmed this four-screen X2. So if you're going to watch it at and like like he said in the beginning, like I said in the beginning, America, we can't get the IMAX version of this, at least for the first weekend. Yeah, at least. So, where do you go to get that really cool experience? This is literally the first film in all of cinema history where they've filmed this with that 270 uh vr panoramic viewpoint. So that would be a cool experience to see this movie and see when like the hulk is falling down from there and the debris is falling. What is also they filmed around it? Yeah. You know?

SPEAKER_02 31:16

Yeah, it I've never seen anything in this before. Have you?

SPEAKER_03 31:19

No.

SPEAKER_02 31:20

And I think it would be neat, but it's once again, it's like even the ones before this is like it's just extra. It's not this is actually made for. So yeah, I mean, I don't even know where we live. You and I would have to do some research on where we can go for one of that.

SPEAKER_00 31:34

There's one place, it's up in the city, it's called Apple Cinemas, and it's not related to Apple like the iPhone. It's we're talking Buffalo, uh Rochester. Rochester. Yep. And I actually did take a quick peek. They do have seats open for opening weekend. And this might be the way we go up then. And it's it's we'll talk about it. Specifically Screen X viewings. And Army is like, I am tempted. After our family night when we were planning on watching it, anyways, then uh maybe for the second viewing, so so we don't get too distracted in case it is distracting. Yeah, but at least it's a good second view experience for the first time.

SPEAKER_02 32:08

So I gotta tell you, I I've had bad experiences watching movies in new formats, not knowing what the format was. Um I can vouch for that. No. Mission Possible, the last one, is the perfect example. Great movie, awesome franchise, awesome ending. Don't care what anybody says on the internet, it's fantastic. I happened to watch it in like I don't know what the Regals thing is, it's like a 4DX. Yeah, 4DX. And it was like very distracting because I wasn't prepared for what it was. And I thought it was just, you know, a little movement, maybe some myths. They had a lot of fun. This is like it's like a ride, and it's like, whoa, there's a lot going on. And I could see it being enjoyed that way, but maybe not the first time when I want to lock in.

SPEAKER_04 32:52

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 32:52

I our my best so far, the fantastic when we went and watched Fantastic Four, that was almost perfect. Oh, yeah. A little bit of movement. Just enough to, and it was still a big screen, you know. Yeah, and we we also watched Infinity War in 3D.

SPEAKER_00 33:06

Now that's my example.

SPEAKER_02 33:08

And that was a great time, but it would have been it would have been distracting the first time.

SPEAKER_00 33:11

For me, it was distracting watching it. So I'm glad when we saw Infinity War, we saw it in our local theater, which didn't have any of the 3D stuff and all the fancy stuff. It was just you're watching the screen. Um, because I there are parts of we saw it in IMAX 3D, so you had to wear the glasses and everything for it. And there were parts of that movie I got so distracted that I'm like, I'm so thankful that there are certain scenes I couldn't even see properly because it was it was so new to me. I'm glad it was my second viewing of it. That way I knew at least what was going on and tried to get the the best out of it, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 33:45

But yeah, I agree. It was still good, it was it was very good. Yes. Wouldn't have wanted it to be the first time. Oh, yes, not knowing games. Hands down. Yeah. But uh the other part of this story here is yeah, this is your way around IMAX. You gotta use other technology then, guys. You're gonna have to figure this out because you can't just use what you're gonna normally use for IMAX and just throw a different name on it.

SPEAKER_04 34:05

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 34:05

If you're gonna you need to use things that isn't IMAX, this isn't IMAX, iMacs doesn't do this.

SPEAKER_04 34:10

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_02 34:10

This is a different kind of way of doing it, and it's another way to throw it out there, and you're gonna have people go see it this way. In fact, you might even start a new trend. Maybe you should start doing most movies with some of these options because why not? To me, it's like why haven't we been using Screen X more? You know, if that's the case. Like it's actually IMAX is cool. I'll don't be wrong, guys. IMAX is fantastic, but this Screen X could be a real fun kind of way to watch it a movie, you know, if they without in doing it for Screen X and not just adding things, right?

SPEAKER_00 34:38

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 34:39

Yeah, yeah. I I'm excited. I think we should watch it the same time like that.

SPEAKER_00 34:42

Yeah, and we're not being promoted by ScreenX to say all this. We were just looking up and we were we were like, oh, this is making cinema history for filming it exactly this way. And I'm like, well, put two and two together. You can't go see an IMAX, which is everyone's default think uh our way of, you know, we're gonna go see a good experience like this type thing. But this is a format they made specifically for it that you can get on opening night. So why not try it out if this is your first time trying it out? You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 35:10

I couldn't agree more.

SPEAKER_00 35:12

Yeah. All right. So, guys, what do you think? Are you gonna now have we persuade you enough to say, hey, let me look up and see if there's any local Screen X's around me, and maybe I'll I'll purchase a ticket for it. I know I'm very interested in seeing it, at least for a second time viewing in something like this, just to get a new experience and see what the hubbub is about. So, what do you think about it, guys? Let us know in the comments below. All right, I'm gonna start us off with our last topic of our multiverse minute. And we're gonna get right into this guy because yeah, this is this is a big deal. Now, this isn't a specifically Marvel or DC or comic book topic, but it does, it is within somewhere in this medium because we do have games that are like the Wolverine PS5 that's coming out soon and Spider-Man PS4 and Spider-Man 2 PS5, and they're gonna keep coming out with all these things because they're fantastic things, you know. So Sony PlayStation is in the news for two reasons. One, the announcement that on 2028, January 2028 onwards, there will be no more physical media. And then the second thing is within their terms and conditions, it's been revealed that any inactive account for three years or longer will be irreversibly terminated, including all the content you've purchased in it too. So, I I mean, I have two initial thoughts of this, and I do want to hear Ike's deep dive. So, do you do you want to start off and then I just go from there, or do you want me to give my two thoughts and then you go from there?

SPEAKER_02 36:49

Why don't you give your two thoughts? Because I'd definitely go off on a couple things a little bit, but I'd like to hear what you got to say because maybe I can help help out with a lot of it.

SPEAKER_00 36:56

Yeah, totally. Then I could just purely react to whatever you're saying too and everything. So the first thing is the I'm gonna start off with the the last thing that it's said here, the terms and conditions. Now, from my understanding, this has been there for a while. It's just, you know, whenever you turn on something new or even you update your phone and it has you go through the terms and conditions, you just bypass everything and press agree. Maybe sometimes we should be reading some of that stuff because you're saying I agree, but what are you agreeing to? And I know it's pages, it's like 200 pages, and you're like, this is crazy. I just want to play a video game. But it this is I think this is coming to light because of all the other controversy that's out there on Sony PlayStation right now. So everything under the sun is gonna be revealed. All is revealed. And this one was. This is typical. The three years inactive, not logging in, and then your account being terminated. Uh uh, I recently found out I guess Xbox does the same thing, but I'm just telling you, as a general thing, this is normal because these uh companies have all these hard drives, they have all these systems in play to make sure your account is running functionally. And if you're not using your account, it's something that my mom has always said to me for a long time. If you don't use it, you're gonna lose it. And that's so true. I'm sure it's the same way. If you never log into Netflix for three or four years, it's probably not gonna be there anymore because they're not gonna keep a profile there that's inactive. I don't know that specifically for Netflix, but I'm just saying this is like an I feel like that's common sense.

SPEAKER_01 38:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:36

If you have a PlayStation account and you have in a PlayStation, and I get it, life gets busy. Simply just turn on your PlayStation, press the login button and your system update, and then turn it off. And it keeps that from ever becoming an issue.

SPEAKER_02 38:51

Yes, three years not touching your PlayStation is a long time.

SPEAKER_00 38:53

It is yes, and that is an expensive device right there, and it's a lot for them on the backside to keep it up to date. So I get it, they got servers all over the place. They're not gonna keep your ID that you played three or four games and then decide to quit it later and for like three years, five years, ten years, they're not gonna keep all that stuff like that. So that's the first part. The second part is the physical media that does upset me, and that upsets me for a couple of reasons. When we buy a movie, no matter what the heck goes on in the world, I could plug in my DVD player, plug it into my TV, and enjoy the movie I purchased. And it's not mine like I own every bit of it, but it's mine where I can watch it anytime I want, however many times I want. So I have already a couple years ago personally surrendered to the idea that maybe I won't be buying games, I'll just start downloading them. But I am quickly gonna go back to what I was before because I don't want to not have the option of having that. And if they decide that there's a problem with the game and they want to fix it or get rid of it, I now lose that game that I spent 80 bucks for because they have the right to take off that game off your PlayStation. And not having the physical media where you could, no matter what they decide to do, you can always go back and play that game and that version of it. The best example I'm gonna give is a Spider-Man PS4 game. When that game first came out, Spider-Man looked a specific way, they had a specific actor who did all that stuff. They did a remastered version of it, completely changed Peter Parker's look, completely did. And you can't download that older version before. But if you bought it, you still can play it. Now it's a minor little thing. It's like, oh, they just switched um motion capture actors, whatever. But the thing is, if it was something else or something a little more important than to you personally, then you now are stripped of your options without the physical version. So that's just the the first thing that comes to my head on on all this stuff. And I'd I hate to see, I hate to see this part of that medium go away because everything is so digital nowadays. Even we have all these streaming sites. I don't even buy movies anymore because odds are it's on the streaming site somewhere. The only movies I still buy is Marvel movies because they're Marvel. I have a personal passion for them, so I'll invest the 20 to 30 extra bucks for the steelbook version and all that. And I'm glad they still have that and they haven't decided to get rid of that yet. But and that's another thing. Sony owns Blu-ray, Sony made Blu-ray. So if they do decide, hey, we're not gonna spend the money to make this Blu-ray version of the movie that you love because we're not getting that little sales anymore. This thing that I love to collect will be a thing of the past. And that worries me. And it's gonna start with the video games of all things. So, anyways, that's my two cents on that. Ike, why don't you take it away?

SPEAKER_02 42:09

So I did some reading up on some of this too, because I'm like, how can I relate this to the movies? Because I don't play, I'm not a big gamer. I have played some at the Spider-Man ones, you know. I'm I'm doob I am playing some. Um I think it's all it's all related, it's all art, right? The whole thing, even games, video games, some movies, this idea of what's happening. First of all, it's already been happening.

SPEAKER_04 42:30

Uh the place that yes.

SPEAKER_02 42:40

So the place that was holding some of the digital media for PlayStation lost its licenses already. And there's a ton of like big movies that are just gone. Even if you purchase them on the PlayStation Network, they're gone. If I'm not mistaken, if you bought any of the Terminator movies on PlayStation, you no longer have them anymore.

SPEAKER_00 43:03

Even does so when you buy it on PlayStation, does it download to your PlayStation? But it's gone from your PlayStation. Because it still streams from the internet.

SPEAKER_02 43:12

From their thing. That's how it's gonna be.

SPEAKER_04 43:15

That's in their servers.

SPEAKER_02 43:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 43:17

So that's crappy.

SPEAKER_02 43:20

With streaming, we kind of come to this agreement too, because I remember when there wasn't streaming. I remember when Netflix was new, I'm like, what the hell is this thing? Yeah, when it was a DVD rental. It was yeah, yeah, yeah. Right? Which was still is still kind of neat, right? And we've all understood though how streaming works. We pay a certain amount of money for thousands of options of movies at this point, right? And we understand that there's some that are on there that will eventually leave and new ones will come on. And they've even started making their own content that never leaves. But we are not agreeing to that specific movie, we're agreeing to the platform of giving us movies to watch. So streaming's fine. I have no problem. Actually, I actually like this time of streaming. I've been able to see more things that I wouldn't have been able to see and afford to see all the stuff I've watched, because I watch a ton of movies, guys. Marvel's not my only gig. I love all movies, you know? And I can't afford to buy all these movies and or rent them at the time, yeah, or go to the theater to see them. So there's times where I'm thankful for streaming because okay, I got, you know, I'm not gonna spend that kind of money on a movie that, you know, doesn't deserve that kind of money, right? So streaming is nice. I'm already paying for the platform, there it is, sweet. I'm gonna watch this movie, you know, and sometimes it just works out that way. So I don't got a problem with any of that. That's all fine. And they didn't promise me that in streaming they're never gonna take Terminator off of Netflix. That's not part of the agreement. You know, they'll though I've actually remembered now it's been on there and off twice. You know what I mean? So it's the license as it goes back and forth with those. But with this kind of thing, these things are gonna be gone. They're just gonna be gone, whether you purchase them or not. So that's the other side of it, is without being able to have the physical media, you are basically buying digital means you're ultimately renting. Really? Because ultimately, in the end, it's not up to you whether that thing works or not. Because if the internet shuts down and we're sitting here bored, we could still put Batman the video game in and play. Yep. But if the internet shuts down and we're bored and we don't have physical media for it, and it's all codes and stuff, we can't play it now. So it's like, what the hell? You know, GTA 6 is gonna be the first. I don't know if it's gonna be the first, but it's gonna be one of them. One of the bigger ones. One of the first major ones. It's gonna be no yeah, one of the first major ones that's gonna be no disc. And it's like, I mean, they're already making the PS5 slims with no disc port in them at all. Like they're getting they're committing to this. It's happening. Yep. That's some of the problem I have with it. Where it's like it's it seems to be, you know how much they're charging you for GTA 6? $100. Can you imagine it's gonna be a big expensive game because it's a it's a big expensive game to make? It's the people ones they got. And I'm I'm in I'm actually looking forward to playing it. I mean, I I think it's cool. I like to see that open world stuff, it's fun, you know. Go around and stab a few hookers, have a good time, right? GJ is good for those kinds of things, just to screw around, you know, or looking for bears, or I like that they put Bigfoot in them. You gotta find them. All game, all the GTA ones, except for like the first three, got Bigfoot in them. You just gotta find them. It's awesome. But, anyways, and and they're funny and they're fun and they're entertaining, right? But you're gonna limit now when I can, when I can, you know, when I can and can't play it. And it's gonna be up to you. Say your stuff crashes, man. Like, we still want to be able to use these things, these discs. And I and there's something about owning something that you pay. If I'm gonna pay a hundred dollars, I don't want to code. You know, I want to have a case with a CD that I can put this in and play this game whenever I want to.

SPEAKER_04 46:59

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 46:59

And hey, if the internet's down, I just can't play offline online right now. Cool, whatever. At least I can still play the game. You know, but that's gonna be gone. And then to me, that is that is definitely an issue. And the other part of another part of a small part of this that is a problem, is streaming things when you buy movies online, digital, or these games, all that stuff is never gonna look as good. Like your best internet provider with the best streaming that you can get in the world right now still will never look as good and well-intended as an actual physical disc can make it look still. That is really the truth.

SPEAKER_04 47:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 47:37

You know, and it's I know it might be people out there in the tech and that people would argue that, but I'm telling you, I've I've been listening and reading a bunch of people that know more about it than I do, and they're they they say the same thing. It's yeah, your other issue is your quality of this is gonna now it's limited. So when if your art needs to be seen a certain way, you know, it's you're not gonna get the good, beautiful Blu-ray that Blu-ray can do if you're not playing it on the Blu-ray player. You know, and it's in if it's streaming, you're not gonna get it like that anyways.

SPEAKER_00 48:08

Yeah. I'm glad you brought up that the the non-disc version of the consoles, because when the PlayStation 5 came out, you had two versions you could get the disc or the non-disc. And the disc one was $100 more. But for me, because I do have Blu-ray and all that stuff, I don't have a Blu-ray player. I use my PlayStation because it plays DVD, Blu-ray, and the games. It's the best. If I'm gonna spend money, I rather get something really good that can handle all of it. And I get the like the PS4 Pro can handle the 3D Blu-ray, like it goes, it goes up from there or the 4K Blu-ray, whatever it is. So I don't like the idea that like PS6 onward is gonna be diskless because how am I gonna be able to watch the movies I already have? I'd have to buy a Blu-ray. And at that point, are they still making Blu-rays? You know, that's they're not cheap. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 49:00

They're not. And you just you have to buy it online digitally.

SPEAKER_00 49:04

See, it's a it's it's a scam. What what surprises me about this, and I'm just gonna use this as an example from me as you're saying this, yeah. Uh, because you talked about how if you bought like Terminator as an example on PlayStation, and then there was a there's an issue with the licensing. So they removed it from your PlayStation, and you spent 20 bucks on it, just say, whatever. For iTunes, I know it's a different company, different medium, or whatever. There's a there's an artist that I like that for some reason is not on iTunes anymore. Like all of her stuff is completely gone. But because I already had bought the albums, I could pull up on my phone right now, and I still have them downloaded on my phone, I can still listen to them. They haven't like pulled it off my phone. I'm surprised it's not the same way for the movies. I really am because you're that's the thing. You buy this, you're I'm expecting okay, it's downloaded onto my account or onto my system or onto my whatever, and I can watch it anytime I want. So are you really owning it? Are you really buying it then?

SPEAKER_02 50:10

Physical media is the only way you actually own it.

SPEAKER_00 50:13

That is crazy.

SPEAKER_02 50:14

But it's that's yeah, it's true. Yeah, it is crazy.

SPEAKER_00 50:17

Because you're spending the same amount of money for them, you might as well be getting the physical version of these, the DVDs that they're not making really anymore. Might as well just get that version.

SPEAKER_02 50:28

So let's look at it another way, too. Let's even put it in like terms like that that we even kind of have dealt with, or my me personally, you are now taking a risk of taking a whole demographic demographic of people that play your games and making it harder for them to enjoy your stuff. Because one thing that this is going to, I mean, I'm sure on their store for the digital stuff, they'll still have sales and things, but you're not gonna get the type of sale that you can get when you go buy a used game at a used game store, like a GameStop or a like these little mom and pop ones. And I'm telling you, there's people that can't afford these games that way, other than any other way. Other than the used, used ones. I've gone up to we have a local one that's in Montmorris, and I go in there and they're used. And I mean, I know it might sound like, well, you shouldn't, that's that's real low anyway, but they have a couple good games in there that I can get for a good 15 bucks and be like, cool, I can do a $15 game. I can't do a hundred dollars for GTA right now, let alone one that's not gonna give me its copy. You know, I'll go there. I'm the last game I bought was there for 15 bucks.

SPEAKER_04 51:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 51:37

And it was a it was a fairly newer game that had been used. And it was cool though. And I'm like, sweet, I can play this now. And you know, it's like, so you are you're gonna go on PlayStation and they're gonna have a sale for that game, but you know it's not gonna be no $15 to them. If you're charging us $100 for some of these games now, anyway, I mean I'm telling you, these new games come out, they're gonna be anywhere from I nothing's gonna be under $70, and it's gonna probably be as up as high as $100, right? Yep. And your deal's gonna be probably $30, which is what they would be if I went to Walmart right now and bought a brand new copy. It's $60 at Walmart, is a brand new copy of a game. $69.99. Yeah. Actually, I just looked at it the other day. And then at Walmart, every once in a while, you got like a shelf that's got like seven games on it that are old, and the cheapest one there's $19.99. Well, I can't afford that sometimes too. Let's go see what GameStop's got. Let's go see what the little mom and pop shop's got. Oh, hey, we got two here for $12.99. They're a little older. You know, they're not newest games, but you've never played them because you couldn't afford them then. I could pick them up now. You're now gonna make it, so people aren't gonna be able to do that anymore.

SPEAKER_00 52:43

Well, while you're on that exact point, this is one of the things that kind of bugged me when the Spyro Reignited trilogy came out a few years ago and be like, oh, this is whatever. Uh just listen to me, guys. Uh I wasn't I love Spyro. You love Spyro and hearing that they're putting it on the PS4, fantastic. That's cool. Updated graphics. I was all for it. I still play that game nowadays, anyways. Um, but after I got it, it took like half a day to download the data. And I had the disc to download the data and the updates for it on the day it was released. And I'm like, you know what you're doing to your your people that your customers that may not even be able to afford internet? That's right.

SPEAKER_02 53:29

They're struggling, but this is their little little bit of piece that they give.

SPEAKER_00 53:32

This is the little fun that they could give their kids on their Christmas night to give them a PlayStation with a game, a physical game that they right there in front of everyone can plug in, turn on, press play, and start playing right there. And doesn't take half a day, and they don't have to rely on Wi-Fi in order to play a game you physically bought. Eliminating that whole aspect, making it harder for those that are in the poverty level, your working class blue-collared people that are still trying to make ends meet with the normal how hard it is to live out there. And the one peace that they can have with their kid at night is playing Nintendo or playing Spider-Man PS4, and now you won't be able to do that.

SPEAKER_02 54:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 54:21

What are you doing?

SPEAKER_02 54:22

It's way I mean if you're gonna do it digitally, you gotta drop the price. Oh, yes.

SPEAKER_00 54:27

You have to.

SPEAKER_02 54:28

There's there has to be a give or take somewhere, guys. If you're gonna save money on not having to make the physical stuff anymore, then you need to help us be able to buy your product. You can't say, look, hey, we're gonna look all the money we're gonna save on GTA 6 because we're not gonna make them, but we're still gonna charge you $100? It's like, wait a minute, I can't afford a $70 one, let alone $100.

SPEAKER_00 54:47

Or better yet, guys, if you want to do like a fine compromise in the middle, because we don't see your numbers. We don't see when you're looking at your finance committees and Sony and all that, and you're like, well, we made like 1,000 units, just throwing this out there as an example of physical media and only 100 of them sold. So we're actually losing money on that. Okay, I understand you have to make a budget, make ends meet. But at least allow that to still be if you pre-order the game, you could get the physical version because it's a guaranteed sale. Yeah. Something of that degree to keep these mom and pop stores still open that are still promoting you and all your stuff, even though you're charging a buttload for it. And yeah, the best of both worlds.

SPEAKER_02 55:30

Right. Put it this way: I, Morgan and I, my daughter and I, we're excited for this new GTA 6 game. We really are. And more than normal. We're like, you know what? This actually looks really cool, a lot of fun. We can't wait to see what the new things they do in the next all the cool places you can go and all that. It's just neat. They've done the great job with these games. And we we were like, okay, when this game comes out, it's gonna be a little expensive, but we're let's get it and let's enjoy it. And I said, we'll get it brand new, it might be pretty expensive. Then I heard it was a hundred dollars. I was like, whew. And her and I were talking, she goes, well, if we save up, we can still get it. Like, yeah, let's plan on still getting it. Now I know I gotta do it digitally. Now we're not. I'm not gonna give you $100 for a code on a game on a game system. I'm not gonna do it. You know, yeah, I'm gonna wait till it's on sale someday. So that means your initial how'd the game do when it got released, I'm no longer included in giving you that. Me personally. That's one. But you know what? I know there's more. And it's just good luck, PlayStation. You're gonna see a drop in some of it. You're just gonna, you you're saving money, but now I promise you that the only people that are gonna be able to afford what you're doing are the hardcores that have the money. Yep. Which might still be profitable. You're not going anywhere. I'm not saying it's gonna ruin your company, but I am gonna say you will, you are gonna lose top dog status.

SPEAKER_00 56:55

You're taking the pond and you're making it into smaller puzzles now because your average customer that you could have that was doing it for fun and enjoyment, like we used to back in the 90s and the early 2000s, they can't do it anymore. Yeah. You've now, you've, you've weeded them out of your conversation and your product.

SPEAKER_02 57:15

And then to go even further, and this is where I'm gonna get on a pedestal for a second, and I might be, maybe I'm even wrong and out of out of out of touch. But I there's a fellow podcaster that I heard talk about some of this stuff as well, and I had already had the thoughts. I started writing it down. And when he was saying it, it validated my thoughts and even said more that I'm gonna add to it. Um, but this what this also is doing is you are culturally changing something that I think even us as human beings moving forward, no matter what we do with AI or how we make things easier or accessible, I understand we're all getting to that spot that's weird, right? It's like we're eventually gonna be eating the pill, like the Matrix soon, you know, and um or we'll turn into the world of WALL-E, you know, if we're not careful. And I don't, I don't, I don't think we want that because I think that's not profitable in the long run. Because even in the sci-fi versions of the fakeness of, oh, that's impossible, it's it's usually after a collapse of society, you know, and I and I think that that's a warning that in all of our culture that we should take, and I'm not saying what you're doing is gonna collapse society, but hear me out. There's like a ritual that would be said. And why I'm talking about this so passionately is because, okay, sure, with the video game part of it, I can go the rest of my life and never play a video game, be a happy guy. I'm not a gamer, you know. Um, but I do love my movies, and it's gonna start affecting that because it already is. I mean, look at look at the little bit of choices we have. Movies we can buy physical when we go to buy them. Yep. And you gotta get them online, and they're like 40 bucks, and it's like, oh my God, it's ridiculous. So some there's some movies I love that I'm never never gonna have physical, that I would love the physical and have them copy because that's just how you use collectibles, it's what you like to do. It's human nature to be that way, guys. And digital doesn't make that collectible thing a thing. But the ritual of like going to the movie store on a Friday and picking out the Friday blockbuster, going home, making popcorn, getting the pizza, getting the tape out, making sure it's rewound, or get the discount, make sure no one, no one who had it before smudged it. You know, put it in. Everybody sit down, you get the lights, and you watch it. Your surround sound system comes on, the stuff that you put together that you made for this. Equate that to like what they did with music. When you have the record and you open up the record and you rip the thing out, you smell the vinyl, you put it down on everything, you set the needle. There's like a ritual that happens culturally that's kind of like it gives like a it's like a a way of uh like a rite of passage into this thing that I'm getting into. And when you do this like you're doing it now, and make it so it is so fleeting and so quick and easy, and then also not really the person, not really the consumers anymore. That we are at your behest, are we only gonna enjoy this? When I bought a CD and I put in my CD player to listen to an album, I didn't have to worry about that CD company not being not having their servers up for that album to play. It just played because I bought it. And there's also that having the CD player, the setting up the speakers, the getting the putting the right tune, all of that that is like a it's like a it's a thing, it's cathartic. And you're taking that away. You're you're diminishing what it means for this art to be art. And you're gonna make it not as worth as much, or you're not gonna you're gonna make it worth not as much by diminishing it this way. Because kids are gonna grow up, guys, where it's just gonna be like, Why can't I just put in a few numbers and I have what I want to have? It's like that's just not and maybe it's just because we're old school and that's how the world's turning, and that might be the truth. I still don't like it, and I still think it's dumb, and I won't ever give in or partake to it in the sense that you want me to. I'm not saying I'll never buy a game digital, but you're not getting my hundred dollars for GTA 6 because not without I want to steal a bookcase of that some bitch at $100. You know what I mean? Like in and I you're just changing the fundamental reasoning, and I miss the days of like Hollywood video, you know? I miss those, I miss the smell of that. I just miss all of that. The experience. And I get it, things change and it's for the better. I just I don't see this being for the better. Yeah. I think you're shooting yourself in the foot. I think you're saving money, you're cutting corners, you're trying to be happy new, and you're trying to go with this new digital age that we have. But I think what you're gonna find out, like they found out in the music industry, is we're gonna we're gonna fight back like we are now. Because what's happening right now in the music stuff that they that 10 years ago, 20 years ago, people would have thought you were crazy. But vinyl's getting huge again. I was yes, I was thinking about that. I cannot believe the selection of vinyl at Walmart. At Walmart, and there's like two little racks of CDs, of CDs they've probably had since the 80s, you know, like and then they got row, a whole row of just vinyl. You could buy record players, you now there's stores opening up with different because people have come back. You know what? We miss it, we like it, we want it like that. And the artists themselves and the company, the production people, the producers, know that that's where the money's at, and they're making them to get bought. So what you think you're doing is cool and hip and all that, you're gonna have those kind of same kind of people are gonna be like, no, no, no, we want the old school nostalgia, we like that. We want that. Your hardcore gamers, they want to blow in that cartridge and put it in, hope it works. They love it, they live for it. Yeah, I know these guys, I have had friends like that. I get it. That's what they want. And if you guys think that they don't, you're just mistaken. This will be cool for a while. You know, there might even be a spike on some things, you're still gonna lose some stuff. But mark my words 40 years, 10 years, 20 years, six years, somewhere along the line, the demand for it's gonna come back around and you're gonna wish you were making them. And then you're gonna might be scrambling to make some. And it's gonna be a little too late. And then you're gonna have these ridiculous prices on them because you're now you're used to the $100 digital. You're not gonna go backwards, so they're gonna be $160 for physical media. Yeah. This is just uh you're just you're really making it. I just think you're moving too fast. PlayStation, keep it easy, simple, man. Sit back say, man, they like our physical media. Not only when they give you physical media, but you're all gonna get a free poster in it too when you buy it for the $99 that we're gonna charge you. You're gonna get what you're worth. You know, and it's like, and it's if that's my thoughts on this whole thing. I think it's dumb. I I look at PlayStation, I wag my finger. I'm like, you are you're becoming part of the problem. But we will show it to you just like we did with music. We're gonna show it to you now. CDs are starting to make a somewhat of a comeback online. There's you can go online right now and you like look up, hey, you know what? I want to buy, I want to get some of the old albums I like to listen to on CD again. And you can find them, and they've caught on and they're getting expensive again. And once they start getting expensive like that, someone's gonna say, Hey, you know what, all this is gonna take is one artist, one new artist, Taylor Swift's next album, is like, you know what would be kind of cool I kind of do like a retro kind of album and release it on CD again. And you're right back to where you started, and you're gonna wish you didn't do it.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:43

That's how it's gonna happen. You're exactly right. You are exactly right. I am personally shocked at the phenomena of the vinyls that are out there. It's huge. Yeah, they have whole sections like in our local Walmarts dedicated now to vinyl records that when I was growing up, I barely saw any except for what my mom and dad had in the corner of their living room.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:03

Accessible and affordable. Yes. I go to a lot of music festivals to bands that aren't huge. There are more like regionally local, like you know, big, like they're big enough to go around the country still and do festivals, but they're not, you know, on the charts or nothing, you know? Yeah. And I go to their table for their merch and they're making vinyl for us to buy and they're selling it to us for like 20 bucks. It's like, so how much are they paying to have that made that they can afford the $20 to come still do dig gigs like this? Yep. So it's affordable for people like me that can't afford that real expensive stuff. Yep. Yeah, guys, it's it's you're just you're gonna find that it's not gonna be, it's not gonna work. It's just not gonna be sustainable.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:44

I missed the days of pre-ordering a PS3 game from GameStop so I could get five, I know they're codes, but you know, five bonus feature things of different outfits from my Tekken characters and all that stuff, and just the whole ritual of going. To get it and buying it, opening it up on the car ride home and seeing the disc and looking at the insert booklet and getting the whole book that's comes with it that's for the game codes and all that, or not codes, but you know, the game pictures and artwork and all that stuff. I got a stack of them downstairs of the Marvel Ultimate Alliance games of Tekken. That's the the game book, it's like thicker than my Bible, it's huge, and you open it up, it's a huge character right there. I'm like, that's just that part of that physical media that you won't be able to get anymore now.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:32

Yeah, it's part, and it's you know, and sure, there's not a lot of value in this ritual thing that we're talking about, but it's the experience of the art of the thing that you're doing.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:42

Well, to some video game or a movie, to some kid out there, that's all they got for their enjoyment. And now you're depriving them of something like that that we took for granted when we were kids, now in retrospect.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:52

The last thing I got to say about this is to Mr. John Campia, who has always been like likes the digital, he has a whole digital library. It's like, you let me know how it goes when you have to go to Rob to borrow a movie because you're not gonna have it.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:04

Yeah, because Rob is a big collector.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:06

And like I'm not saying it's happening yet, but the day's gonna come where you're gonna be like, damn, I can't turn that on because the company or whoever I bought this from or whoever is streaming this for me because I bought it no longer supports it. Rob's gonna have those three stereo books of it, and you can go borrow it.

unknown 1:07:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:21

So it's like, you know, like in the and that's that's just you know, when I when I'm at home, my my daughter and I were sitting there, we had the power go out. We're like, man, what are we gonna do? It was out for like four hours. Remember that day was out for four hours the other day. It was some heat index thing or whatever, you know, someone just decided to flip a switch.

unknown 1:07:35

No.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:36

So we were sitting there and we had a portable DVD player that was that was a battery-powered. I was thinking. We put a movie in, a disc, and a portable DVD player. Screen this battery powered, yep. We huddled right up, we got a bag of chips, and we sat there waiting for the power to come back out watching the movie. Can't do that with this thing. You can't do that. And I'm telling you, you can't beat those. Then we had a great time. You know, you know, you're just taking you just you're just taking away from what we uh how far we've come with art and all this whole thing, guys. So yeah, that's all I got to say. Hopefully it makes sense, you know.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:08

All right, guys, comment down below and let us know what you think of this whole predicament. Do you agree with anything the Sony is saying? Do you have some common sense solutions that you think that they should be doing? Um, and what do you think of my brother's assertion on this? And do you think that like what he and I think this will bleed into other mediums if it continues on this way? So comment below and let us know your thoughts. All right. Well, that goes our uh multiverse minute of the week. Where are we on to next now, Ike?

SPEAKER_02 1:08:36

We're gonna run right into some rumors, guys. This one will go nice and quick for you, but we'll have a good time. We got a few things to talk about. Just things that who knows if it's true or not. So we're gonna skip right over to the rumor rumor mill rundown. Let's see what we got to say.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:55

All right, guys, we're on to this week's rumors on our rumor mill rundown, and we're gonna dive right into our very first one that has to do with our friendly neighborhood Spider-Man. So now we're talking about Spider-Man the way I thought we were. Yes, yes, and get this guy. Could he be going back to Disney like permanently on Marvel Studios' very own property again? Let's find out. So this is a rumor that's out there. A rumor circulating online claims that Sony is in active talks with Marvel to sell the entire rights of Spider-Man back to Marvel slash Disney. But in exchange for the value that they place on the property estimated by their projected earnings, which would be around $10 billion minimum. If this becomes reality, it would make history as the largest buyout in cinema, nay, the world, history. So, what are our thoughts about this rumor that's circulating out there?

SPEAKER_02 1:10:01

So I'm gonna be short and sweet about this. Okay, because I think it's pretty simple. I have one question. We don't know the answer to this. Is it only Spider-Man that they're thinking is worth that? Or are we talking all his stuff?

SPEAKER_00 1:10:17

It's everything. It's it's his from my understanding, this rumor is about his entire catalog. Because Sony has his entire catalog.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:23

They do, okay. So it's not just Spider-Man, it's it's all the Venom with Craven, there's all the Spider-Ver, all the Spider Woman? Yes, everything. Um then you know what? With the money that this has made, man, 10 billion's a lot.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:39

And when you're a company that that's a lot to invest in, I so and according to this rumor, this is what Sony thinks its value is based on what they are actively doing with the character and their projected what they would make from all this. Because they have the Spider-Man video games, they have the animated show, they have the um into the Spider-Verse, which is very successful. It's kind of overrated, but it's very successful.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:11

I see why people like it though.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:12

Uh yeah, I I agree. Don't come, don't come at me. Also come at me, who cares? Um but and then you look at the last sp couple Spider-Man movies, like Far From Home made it.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:23

Those don't count, my opinion. I know it counts to their I know they're gonna count it when it comes to money and technically. Yes, but that's also through the guise of Marvel making them that way.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:32

Yes, it is Marvel Studios that's partnered up with them, but they get them.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:36

That'd be my argument to that.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:37

Disney doesn't get that money though, is completely Sony.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:40

Yeah. But I'm just saying, even when it comes down to the value of it, it's like you to me, it's almost like because we made these as well, whether we you guys got the money or not, um, the creative part of it that we're gonna argue about is that's not, you can't put that on a table. Because that's successful because we've made them good. Like, sorry, we're borrowing your character and just giving you money for it at this point. Therefore, you need to argue why you do better to earn 10 million, because from what we understand, you can't.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:08

You're Sony versus Yeah, yeah. I agree, but uh, you know, they're gonna look at the character and they're gonna they're gonna say far from home made a billion, no way home made almost three billion. This one is this new one, brand new day, is projected to make 1.5 billion at the moment, could be even more.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:26

After every time they say that Fuggy should lean in and say, You're welcome.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:29

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:30

Yes, welcome. Yes, and that and that and that that's all that's all my argument is for that. Is like, what are you doing with them? Because this is what we're doing. We're making you that billion money. Like you can't sorry. Yeah, but I think they're what you're saying. That's what they do account because that's what they do, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:12:44

And they're estimating this for for everything. It's this entire catalog. And Spider-Man, just like Batman, has a huge rogues gallery, has a huge catalog of characters that are associated with him and everything. So if they're gonna sell him back, they're selling everything. There's no way that they would, in my opinion, sell back Spider-Man, but yeah, we're keeping Ant May. You're not making Ant May movie about Spider-Man.

unknown 1:13:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:06

Can they can can they do anything with Spider-Man in the movies that they want? Is there a limit to that? Do they have to agree on it? Is that you like that Sony has a limit? Yeah, is it like when when they when they make a Marvel movie that's Spider-Man, it's obviously Sony's a big part of it, right? Yep, yep. So, but what they do with the character in the movie, Sony has no say, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:13:30

To a degree, they do have a say. But see, this is an interesting, this is an interesting predicament because part of the agreement that Sony has with Marvel, and this is this is not the agreement of them collaborating from Civil War onward. This is the agreement of you can maintain their rights, is you have to do like there's a laundry list of things he has to be of a certain age, he can't have sex, he can't do this. There's all these different things that to maintain Sony's rights of the character. But if they're collaborating with Marvel and Marvel decides we want to do one of those things that we're telling you you can't do, but we're the ones who are telling you you can't do it. And if we're doing it, we're gonna do it then. I think that from my understanding, that's they have a little give and take with that. So with a Tom Holland Spider-Man ones, I think they could get away with some of that stuff that they told Sony You exclusively can't do.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:21

So my point of asking that is because if I were them, I think five billion makes more sense. Because I do see that there's value there. It's it's the like we've said before, Spider-Man, it's like you're born and you know Spider-Man. Yes. So it's like you're always gonna make money on Spider-Man, just depends on how much, right?

SPEAKER_04 1:14:40

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:40

Um, I think five is fair, especially if it was just for Spider-Man, I'd say you're ridiculous. Go screw yourself. You know what I'm saying? But if it's his whole all that comes with him, encapsulate, then yes, I think five makes more sense. And if they don't want to go that low, then he just dies in the MCU and then let the company destroy themselves. Because what are they gonna do with him? So you know what? Fine, we don't want him no more. But can we have a really we're gonna what we're gonna do is we're gonna give him real cool deaths in the MCU, and then you can go, you can go make your own Spider-Man movies, recast him, do whatever you want to do, and fail again and again, and we'll just get him back the way we got Fantastic Four back.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:20

It just might take more time. They did that's a great example. Fantastic four. I don't know why they couldn't get it right.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:26

Let them bring their own price value down on their character because they can't do with that character that Marvel can do with that character. And the proof's in the money, the proof's there in the pudding. Like the most you've made out of Spider-Man is what we've done for you in the at least in the movie forms. Okay, I know video games, whatever. We can talk about this whole different thing. Yeah. But in the movie forms, we've made you the most money that you've ever made on Spider-Man. Ever. And the last two Spider-Man movies you put together, you had to cancel the third one. Yeah. And then you wish you canceled the third one or the other one. Because it tanked it and it stopped the fourth one. So you know what? You if you're gonna be this way, if he dies in this, we'll give him a cool death. And there you go, take Spider-Man back, he's just gone. We'll have him no more in the MCU. But you know, 15 years from now, we'll have him back. Because you're gonna screw it up. Just like just like the other guys did before they couldn't figure out Fantasy for. And they tried and they still couldn't figure it out. And you start losing money. Then when you come to the table with a character that you've lost money on, that five billion goes down to you know, six hundred million. Right? Yeah. All of a sudden he's a little more affordable, isn't he? I think there's a way of them doing this. I think Sony is just out of their minds to say 10 billion on it, it's the best thing we got, blah blah blah blah blah. We're gonna walk around big chested. Yeah, well, you know, Spider-Man's also more popular again because of Marvel. I would argue that if it wasn't for the movies being so good in Marvel, that the Spider-Verse stuff wouldn't have been so good. It's like yeah, it's to me though, I wouldn't I wouldn't buy them for 10 billion. I'd just keep the same. If it just came down to, hey, look, if you want them, it's 10 billion bucks, you can take them. Um, I'd just be like, no, let's keep the same deal we got going, just keep making movies. But if you're in this, if you really wanted to purchase him and lowball them, or at least get to a a spot that makes more sense, let them ruin Spider-Man, and then we'll take it from there.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:31

So according to this online through the Google and Googles, it the of course every take everything a grain of salt that says online, it may or may not be true, but Google says that's lowballing at 10 billion. Get out of here. No way. It says according to this when factoring in video, film, gaming, licensed merchandising, the total adjusted eco ecosystem boost of value exceeding $26 billion is what they are the Google is valuing Spider-Man.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:07

I you know what I understand. It's probably true. It probably is because I don't know. I don't know. You know what I mean? How much well the all the other action figures, all that stuff. Yeah. But what I will tell you is Foggy, you should lean into the mic and say, You're welcome.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:23

Yeah. Is that high still because of these Marvel movies? Does Disney have the cash? Yes, they do. They are the biggest corporation out there when it comes to the entertainment industry. They're gigantic. I can't think of one, and please correct me if I'm wrong, if there's one that's on par with them, if not a little bit more than them.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:43

Yeah, no, if anyone's got the money to do it, it's Disney for sure. Yeah. But it's still a lot.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:48

I don't, but that's the thing. I don't know. We've talked about this before. If if Marvel ever got the rights back of Spider-Man, we would not be getting the Spider-Man that we have now. And the reason I say that's true, is because part of their deal, every 69 months, a Spider-Man film has to be in the works. There are characters that Marvel is still sitting on that in some of them, they've given them a movie and haven't gotten a sequel for them in almost 10 years. And it's like, would they, if they had Spider-Man, be chugging them out like this and making them billion-dollar films each time they come out? I think it's because of the pressure of Sony making sure they keep them and Marvel being involved with them enough that they're able to make these great Spider-Man movies and we get them more timely. I don't know if I agree with that.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:38

I I see what you're saying. I yeah. Why why I struggle to agree with that is if they have the sense of that, then why did they suck at it before when they had it? We have the example that this company owned it, we saw what they did with it, they couldn't cut it. There isn't the example the other way around. We have an example now with Marvel that this is how they handle Spider-Man, and now this is what we got. Of course, with the caveat, they don't own it, so being careful, right? I see what you're saying. Is that there? But we don't know that they couldn't have made a better movie or continue to make more better movies if they just owned it or outright. We don't know that. Because they they haven't failed yet.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:25

Sony's failed already. They can't do it.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:28

Well, you see what I'm trying to say?

SPEAKER_00 1:20:30

I'm not saying the Marvel would fail or make them better than Sony, honestly. Right. But I I think that why they're in the predicament they were in when they got to Avengers or Captain America Civil War was because they could not sustain Spider-Man right. They had just canceled the Amazing Spider-Man 3, due to the poor reception, and someone got ticked off at Andrew Garfield for being sick for a press conference. Whatever, that's all. Guys are idiots. Anyways, just like that's so there has to be. Otherwise, you are too petty to even be a CEO of some kind. Anyways, um, I think that and what we see of the Sony verse, them trying to do the Spider-Man properties without Spider-Man, how that has phenomenally failed in their face. I'm shocked they made as many as they did because it was so bad. I think they had false hope with Venom just being an abnormality. And even then, the sequels to Venom were not as good. It just kept yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:25

Anyways, I just think that this deal that they have isn't helping Sony at all. No, they might be making the money, but it all it does in my mind is reinforce the argument that without Marvel, yep, Spider-Man's not worth 10 billion or 26 billion. I agree. Because they've made it that popular again and again and again. And I think that that's kind of like, you know.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:47

If if Marvel decided right now to cut the whole deal, this is the last Spider-Man movie, brand new day, yeah, and he's not gonna be involved in the MCU anymore. You do what you want, maybe the next one will still be big because of the Spider-Man name and Tom Holland might be in it, all that stuff. But eventually it will go downhill again because it's because they put him into this partnership with Marvel Studios and Sony and put him into the MCU that he's gotten bigger than he was before. You can't get back the Sam Raimi trilogy time. Even them at the very end, they were like, We're not doing well with Spider-Man. We canceled Spider-Man 4 in pre-production and then rebooted it to keep the rights. They'll keep doing that over and over again until they realize, just like the Sonyverse, they can't maintain it. So I I think eventually it would go back to Marvel.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:37

Because I would love to see Feige pick a director and say, Here's your task. And your task is to make a new Spider-Man movie, but this time only Spider-Man characters. Because we don't have to go by this bull crap rule of having a big character in there to compliment and this and them and to keep them tied to this. Just go make a Spider-Man movie. We haven't seen that yet. And I think Marvel could make an awesome one. Oh, I agree. I think they could.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:04

And and unfortunately, I don't think Sony can. My worry is I think that see, I think Spider-Man is a big enough of a character they would prioritize him in the MCU if they owned him full rights. They would. But there are other characters, so we're still waiting for their time and do that they may be as I'm not saying they will be as big, but they could be bigger than what you think of them that we're not gonna see. And I feel like Spider-Man along the way could get mixed in that shuffle of you get them every 10 years instead of every four years. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 1:23:37

Yeah, yeah, maybe, or or or you know, I think there is that possibility that one of the smarter things that Marvel could start doing, which is uh something I hope they start doing, is they start looking at what works. And I'm not saying prioritize them first and let other characters go away, but it for a good example. I don't think that we need another Doctor Strange movie. I think they need to accept that a Doctor Strange solo movie is just not gonna work anymore. So now he just shows up in other things. So, what character does get people that come and see? And that's the one that we make. So, yeah, I do think it is a game that you need to look at where we're gonna, you know what, let's try this guy and we make a movie. And hey, it's made a lot of money, but it's not that good. So maybe we'll try a second one, and it's yeah, it's still oh, maybe it's a little worse. You know what? Now he's in it, let's just put him with other people, and now let's try this other guy and see what happens. Oh my god, he just made a billion dollars. Let's do a second one. Oh my god, just made two billion. Amazing, and then he's gonna get three or four, right? And that's why we got uh fourth Captain America movie, you know, um, without Captain America, you know what I mean? Yeah, you know, but but do you think we're gonna get a fifth after what the I mean money-wise is successful, but they are not even thinking about a fifth Captain America, knowing now how much people don't like it.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:55

It was only money-wise successful in name only. People saw Captain America and they went to see it, and then oh my gosh, the following two movies suffered because of it.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:06

That's why we're getting cap in these movies, because they're not gonna make cap an more because they know that they're like, shoot, we got a problem we gotta fix. Well, until we fix it, let's fix it this way by using old cap to do it. Yep. And so to me, Spider-Man is a flagship. Yeah, it's like if you if they owned him, we would have one every six years because they would do the next Tom Holland trilogy, and then we would start with a Miles Morales trilogy, and then we'd do a Spider-Verse, and then it'd just be it just you mean I'm already worth 40 years now in at this point. And then we don't know what's going on then. Who knows then at that point?

SPEAKER_00 1:25:39

Yeah, then they reboot it again.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:41

Exactly, that's just it, you know, and it's something that Sony can't grasp that Marvel can do because they're already how many movies in doing as much as this this uh multiverse thing is not worth so much, it's still massively successful. Yes, that's true compared to the crap that they were giving us. Oh, yeah, oh hands down hands down, yeah. So like to me, it's like what we are we are doing retros on movies that are the best of the best. We're not doing when we say it one of these Marvel movies is like a four out of ten, but that's still don't forget people that there's movies behind it that are on a different scale that's lower. Like these are just according to these guys, yeah. We're not comparing. I'm not saying I don't want these movies to be as good as Gladiator or you know, I don't think Shaw Shank and these movies belong in the same section. Yeah. So if I you know if I put Shaw, yeah, of course Shaw Shank's a better movie than most of these movies, but it's that doesn't count. It's not part of this whole talking in the MCU. We are privileged enough to be able to do and rank MCU movies at a time where these are so good that we've never had movies like this before. Yes. So even the worst one was sometimes better than what we would ever thought we ever would have gotten. Exactly. Yes, that Captain America one really pushed the limit. But like sometimes you know what I'm saying? And so Sony is included in that. Yeah, there's exceptions, but yeah, yeah. There's not when you go look at those Sony movies, you're just like, oh, those are bad. Those are why comic book movies had a bad name. The worst Marvel movie isn't why comic book movies have a bad name. But some of the better Sony ones that are still pretty good are some of the reasons it still has a bad name. And it's kind of like, uh so the argument, I back to what this whole rumor is about, is it would just be it. I think they can get that lower if they could argue it. You know, and then once again, if they get stubborn, then say, you know, fine, haven't been. Yeah, they're just gonna be like, oh shit. Yeah. Like we're gonna do without that creative team, you know, and then that's that's kinda that's how it's gonna go. Because I I think Tom would just be like, yeah, and I'm done.

SPEAKER_04 1:27:43

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:44

Yep, that's the thing. Yep. I agree. I think he's agreed because it's in this in the cinematic universe, not over there.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:52

And he's smart to do that. Yeah, 100%. Yeah. All right. Well, guys, what do you think about this whole situation? Do you think Sony should sell him? Back to Marvel? Do you think they would? Do you think 10 billion is too much? Do you think it's a little low? What do you guys think? Jump down in the comment section below and let us know your thoughts. All right, Ike, take it away over our next topic. All right.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:11

While Marvel Studios has not made any official casting announcements, reports indicate that Marvel chief Kevin Faggy is actually interested in bringing Taylor Joy's version of Magic into the MCU following her universally praised performance in 2020's The New Mutants. She has been heavily liked or linked to upcoming Mutant Focused MCU projects. Do we think she will return as this character? I'm gonna say my piece real fast because I have a lot to say. I said that last time, I was like 10 minutes ago. No, but truthfully, I don't. I struggle remembering this movie. I do remember it, and I do think she did great. And to me, it's not a big deal. I think if they brought her into the MCU stuff, it'd be a cool, hey, she played that before, you cheese again, sweet. You just watch it. If she doesn't, people like me aren't gonna miss it. I don't think it was that good. It was good, but it wasn't like, I can't believe you're not doing this good, you know. I say I would argue and say that now that we've seen Channing Tatum play uh Gambit, that we wanted more of that more than I'd want more of her. Not that it's bad, but it's like it just I'm my I do. This is one of those times I just fall in that. I really don't care. It's like if she comes in, I think it'd be a cool Easter egg and it'd be a cool look, she gets to continue the character and maybe bring some of that nuance to it for fun. If she don't, then I'm sure they're gonna find someone to play the part just fine. All right. It's simple for me for this one to be honest.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:46

So for me, I'm gonna tell you guys the the uh the new mutants, it it was the very last thing that came out of the Fox era X-Men uh thing because Dark Phoenix had already come out and all that stuff. This is in the middle of COVID. I actually had to drive to Avon in order to see this movie in theaters in the drive-in with everyone still with their masks on and like 20 feet apart. Um, but it did not get a lot of praise. This movie, it was it looked low budget, it looked like it was made to be low budget. I get it. I wasn't that bad. I honestly have to say, for me personally, it was kind of it's kind of a hidden gem. And I you'd be like, what the heck is he talking about? Anya Taylor Joy is the scene stealer of this movie. Yeah, I agree. She was the best casting for magic, she portrayed it so well, every one of her lines, everything that she did. She was the breakout star of this movie in particular. And like you said before, Ike, when you add talent to something, no one's ever gonna say no to that. And Kevin Feige is smart to say, hey, of all the characters that worked the best of this movie, she was the one. And I would love to see more of her portrayal as magic, honestly. I honestly loved the ideas that they had for the new mutants, too. If Fox kept was able to do them with Antonio Benderas being in it, that was really cool. Yeah, uh, honestly, the reading all that stuff. And we're gonna get to that retrospective sometime, uh, guys, probably in the next year. Um, but I think this is cool. I also think what's uh thing about this is really cool about this. If this is true and Kevin Feige wants to say, hey, I want you to reprise that role, but keep the same uh acting for it and everything, how you portrayed her and everything, it's just it's a new take on her, so to speak. You know, she's the MCU version, not the Fox version or whatever. This movie, New Mutants, flew under the radar enough where no one's gonna be like, oh my gosh, she's back. It'll be like, oh, it's just continuing a great casting onto the new version of them. That's it. So I think that that's the one thing that I can say of all the old Fox Universe X-Men that they could bring over and it won't be a big deal, so to speak, is her. I'm not gonna, I don't think you're gonna ever hear anyone say we don't want her as this role. So if this is true, cool.

SPEAKER_02 1:32:11

Yeah, one of the thoughts I have about it when it comes why I think if I were if you were to ask me if this is even gonna happen, I s would actually bet against it. Um, not because I wouldn't want it to, but I think what they're doing with the X-Men and the Mutants going forward is they're trying, first of all, they're looking at how much it's gonna cost with a lot of these characters. And part of that cost is gonna be the actors that you put into it, how much they're worth. And I think that they're smart by thinking, let's get young actors that are really good, that can do this for a while, that are a little unknown, that might build their career, like they kind of did with Hugh Jackman in the beginning, and hopefully it catches on. And I think that there are any big characters in the X-Men thing that are gonna be like this this big base that kind of sets a foundation will be played by people more recognized. I think Anya's at a point in her career though, that she's not that fresh young face no more. She's something that's worth a little more. That unless magic's gonna be a big part that's very foundational in this, it's probably not worth her worth what she's worth, if that makes any sense.

SPEAKER_04 1:33:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:24

That's the only thing I would say at this point. You got too big. She's worth a lot more money now than she was when she did this movie. That's yes. And so if you're gonna pay that and you're taking this character that, let's be honest, hasn't really been the biggest focal point in other media or in other situations, and you're paying a lot. It's kind of like the whole, why would you pay Robert Downing Jr. to put a mask on and never see his face? You know, which I think we're gonna find out why, because I think they're never gonna see his face. But on top of it though, that's kind of what I'm thinking. I think they're thinking like they're gonna cast Cyclops and we're gonna be surprised because it's not gonna be the big guy. It's gonna be someone no young new that is good and great, and they're gonna prove themselves through this role. And then because they're cheap. Er, you know, and then they can earn it as they go. Chris Evans was not worth that much when he first did Captain America, you know, but now he is, right? I don't think they'd have cast Chris Evans back then if he was as worth as much as he was now. Maybe it's a big character. Um that's a that might be a bad example. And different time period, but I get it. Well, Pilgrim. To do an Ant Man, you know, he's not worth what these other guys are. You know, now he's up there, but it took it took how many Ant Man movies and how many Avengers movies, you know, and he's in almost all of them after he's in it, right? Yeah. So it's like, yeah, I think she's just too big a name to make sense in this group, um, but not big enough to be one of them staples. You know what I'm trying to say?

SPEAKER_00 1:34:49

So if uh I we've talked about this before when it came to like Emma Frost and things like that. From from what I know of the X-Men fandom, if you ask me who are, I wouldn't say top five, but who are five characters on the top of your head that maybe your general movie going audience would not know of, but the fans definitely know, and therefore I can see Marvel prioritizing some of those characters because they already have a fan base and now they're just making them bigger. Yeah, Magic would be one of them next to Emma Frost. Wow. So Magic is not a mainstay X-Man character, she is a new mutants character, but she is so highly regarded in Marvel comics, she's on par with the power of Doctor Strange. She has the that portal that she makes in the New Mutants, which is that's called Limbo. It's a whole dimension that she rules. She's the sorcerer supreme of that dimension. So they've and she also has a dark personality that's called the Dark Child, where she goes full dark for like as evil as you could think. So she's she's well written enough for X-Men fans and for comic fans that I can see stories of them writing her into the MCU.

SPEAKER_05 1:36:07

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:36:07

So I'm not saying that that's justification to bring Anya Taylor Joy back in, but if they were gonna say, hey, this is a fan favorite character, we saw a portrayal of her already, and fans were recep movie-going fans were receptive to that version, and comic fans are already receptive to magic. If they wanted to take a big swing for one of their future movies and cast someone a little bit more for that character in particular, I can see them doing that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:36:35

See, I had no idea how expansive her that character's thing is. Yeah. So that's that to me, you that makes sense. That's a great, that would be a great if you're in the pitch meeting and want to say that. Yeah. You know, because yeah, where you where you're gonna lose, where you're gonna make some of us normal moviegoers be like, who's this again? Yeah, you're gonna get you we're gonna hear the excitement of the real of the hardcore fans enough to be like, obviously, it's big enough to pay attention to.

SPEAKER_00 1:36:59

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:37:00

Yeah, there are that's how Guardian started out, truthfully. Oh, yes, you explained it to me. I'm like, what? Like, you know, and then obviously once it came out, I was made.

SPEAKER_00 1:37:08

And for me personally, I knew about Magic before the New Mutants movie came out, but I didn't I personally wasn't too like gung-ho about it. It's like Ms. Marvel. I'm not gung-ho about Kamala Khan. I really am not. She's not my favorite character, but it's obvious that she has enough of a fan following to a TV show on her, and the actress is charismatic enough where she does carry some weight when she does make appearances. And I feel like Magic would be something a little bit like that too, where even if you're not too much of a fan of her, the movie version of Magic turned me on to her. And I thought, okay, cool. If this is how they're gonna make her and have her be, I can see that continuing on. So that's just my two cents. What do you guys think? Do you think Anya Taylor Joy would come back in this role? Do you think that we should cast someone like her or maybe find someone that's not that's an up-and-coming actress? What do you think? Let us know in the comments below. Does magic stay? Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:38:02

I take it away with our last one. All right, guys. So, according to according to my time to shine, hello, there's an alleged plot leak of Avengers Secret Wars laying out the bullet points of the film, which hasn't even started officially production according to Marvel Studios. The biggest takeaway is the film supposedly ends with everyone going back to their respected universes, and the multiverse, despite popular theory, will remain intact. What are your thoughts?

SPEAKER_04 1:38:33

I mean.

SPEAKER_00 1:38:40

So, just to clarify, because we in our last episode, we said we weren't going to talk about the Doomsday leak. The thing about that is there is some bigger names out there that are putting their weight behind it, saying, confirming the validity of it, whether it's really true or not. Because of that reason, we are tending to believe that that might be something that actually is in the Doomsday movie, and we decided not to spoil it for ourselves and not to become those type of people. However, this is Secret Wars that apparently may or may not have been filming. They've been filming it. We know that. They're doing them back to back. But filming it to the point where a whole movie plot leak is out, highly suspicious. It's suspicious it's possible. It is possible, but by the time by the time we get any of this Secret Wars thing confirmed, we're a year and a half already before that movie even comes out. And Lord knows what changes they could be doing.

SPEAKER_02 1:39:38

So it's almost like it's funny because this actually the first thing I jumped to in my head was, you know, I don't like the multiverse stuff because it's made it confusing. But that doesn't necessarily mean it can't be utilized and fixed and revisited at some point. Um my problem with it is we just don't want to ever feel like we can rely on it being a plot device. Yeah. When we move forward from it, I'd like to make it where let's just pretend it wasn't there or it's gone now, you know. But then the other part of it is, you know, we did just get introduced to the Fantastic Ford universe. And there's a whole wide range of things they got going on there, that if they destroyed everything else and it was all just on one spot, we're kind of I think we're gonna be missing out on whatever that could be. Because I've told you this, I've said you to this before, that if they were smart to make these Fantastic Four movies really work good, is their individual movies outside of being in the groups, would be in their universe. So then you didn't ever have to feel like, why didn't they just call this guy, or why is this guy, or where is this? Because they're there, they're doing their own thing there. So if we do get rid of the multiverse, then we're kind of getting rid of that opportunity and the opportunity of like this really cool world they just got done building with it. I'm not saying they can't ever get rid of it for fun, you know. Maybe Galactic shows up and swallows it like a pee. Cool, you know, but I think it I think that they would be doing I do think that there is something to say that if it does get all fixed, part of me is gonna be like, oh, okay, so what just happened? I'd like there to I want something in the middle, personally. I want there to be repercussions where things don't come back. I don't want to think that my X-Men guys are back doing their own thing because then I'm just gonna be like, well, then why can't we just go see more of them? You know, I kind of like the idea that you're getting a goodbye to them. Yeah. And I'm actually okay with them being gone. Just give us some cool stuff first, right? Yeah. Um, but if you just make it like, oh, look, they're okay and they're all just happy go lucky, then it's gonna be kind of like, oh, you're still leaving that door open then. And I don't want that because I want to be able to walk away. Because if I can't walk away from them, you're gonna it's gonna be hard for me to walk into your next X-Men. Yeah. So with that said, um I'd l I definitely don't want to see that Fantastic Four universe go either. Because I'd like to explore that more and see what's going on there. You know, the villains are interesting, they're fun, they could do a lot of fun stuff with that. So I'd like to see that too. So and I think that they're gonna serve themselves better by not being here all the time and going there. You know what I'm saying? Um with that said, I'm actually a little alarmed that in that rumor of the first bunch of movies that they're thinking of making, and in phase seven, right?

SPEAKER_04 1:42:28

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 1:42:28

Fantastic four is not on there.

SPEAKER_00 1:42:31

I'm shocked about that too. Of the rumor, at least.

SPEAKER_02 1:42:33

Yeah, so I'm like, yeah, of the rumor, yeah. And it's like, you think that'd be one that would be a rumor, like that would actually make sense.

SPEAKER_00 1:42:40

Yeah, because it was moderately successful. I mean, I didn't make as much money as they probably hoped, but it definitely was they were in the green and it was well received, was the bigger thing.

SPEAKER_02 1:42:50

And I just yeah, I think they're smart enough to realize that the the people know it's good. So it may have not made the a ton of money because because you know, the movies a couple movies ahead before didn't do as well. But now they're like, oh, it's good, and they're gonna love them in these new ones. So when we the second one's gonna be the one that makes the money.

SPEAKER_04 1:43:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:43:10

That's I'm trying to I'm not gonna get too I'm not gonna overthink this whole plot leak of infinity or of secret wars. Yeah. Because, you know, it's like we don't know what's gonna happen. Clearly, we have some ideas of what some things are gonna go down.

SPEAKER_04 1:43:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:43:28

But I don't know. So my two cents on this thing is I oh we've all been under the impression, whether it was real or not, but because maybe this all could have been originated from fan theories, and that's what everyone is just assuming at this point, which a lot of us we just we forget that oh, this started as a rumor to begin with. Um I was under the impression that this whole doomsday secret wars is to end the multiverse and get back to what I kind of hoped we did: uh a timeline with consequences. And the problem with a multiverse, multiverse comes with good things and bad things. The the good things is you have a huge big play box, play stand, whatever, to play in with all these different characters. And because it's been so long since Marvel actually had all their properties back, you have older X-Men actors and characters and storylines and Spider-Man ones and Fantastic Four and all these different ones. So now while you still have the actors and you can do a multiversal thing, you bring them all in. That's what we're anticipating for both Doomsday and Secret Wars, to be honest. The Secret Wars is probably the bigger one of the two. Um, the the bad thing about that is you can't kill a character normally because there's always a multiversal variant out there that you could. Oh, you don't like the Scarlet Witch died in Nerf 616? Guess what? There's another universe where Elizabeth Olsen's still kicking with her kids, so we're gonna bring her on in. And that kind of waters down whatever epic death you gave her or not gave her, or things like that. So it's it's there's there's pluses and minuses with the multiverse thing. What I personally am looking forward to is getting away from the multiverse where we've had our fun with those characters and saying goodbye to the X-Men in Doomsday and hello to the new X-Men at the end of Secret Wars and all that stuff, but we've we've finally closed the door on all those other ones, and we're back to a singular timeline where when someone dies, they're dead. There's consequences for that. And there are stakes now that are more real for that universe. You can't just pull someone in from another universe or encourage them together, and all of a sudden you fixed it, you know? So with this supposed leak rumor that they're not gonna get rid of the multiverse, it worries me that it's like, okay, we're not closing this chapter. Well, what are we doing? You know, like I you can still tell more stories, of course, and maybe they're better with the change in leadership and direction that Marvel is obviously taking with their quantity versus quality, all that different stuff. But I feel like we've gotten to the point where we're kind of done with the multiverse.

SPEAKER_02 1:46:22

Yeah, see, it it gives me some mixed feelings. I I agree. And you know, I will say this to the credit of the MCO, I will say this. I agree the multiverse does kind of make it feel like you could easily just diminish like the the bigger meaning behind someone dying or whatever. But what I will say though is if if you're s if you do it right, you can still have all that and the consequences still be real for that character. So like some people complain and say uh the similar phrase is it's a universe where nobody really dies. But let's I gotta I I can't think of an instance in the MCU though where someone has just blatantly come back to life yet.

SPEAKER_04 1:47:09

Can you?

SPEAKER_02 1:47:10

Am I I think so far anyone that has come back in a sense, it's it's there's there's like there's a story to that why it's happened. I mean, I I guess you could say vision, but I it's not though. It's it makes sense that the see the problem he's also a robot.

SPEAKER_00 1:47:30

That's the thing. The problem with vision, he's a robot. It's if if vision was a human being, it would that would be paused. Yeah. But robots can easily be dismantled and reassembled again, you know.

SPEAKER_02 1:47:40

I mean, how long ago was Endgame, truthfully, you know?

SPEAKER_00 1:47:43

Yeah, and you and I can't say Gamora because that's not a multiversal variant, that's a timeline variant. Don't know the difference yet, really, because you guys haven't put that up.

SPEAKER_02 1:47:52

But what they did right though is the consequences of it is that Gamora is gone. That's true. Because when you get into Guardians 3, that's not the same. It's she's not the same. That's one of the points of. If she's not her, like you remembered her. And I think that that's what they're doing. It'd be like, oh, look, we can bring Black Widow back because of this or that. Let's bring her back. She comes back and she's thanks guys for bringing me back. Whoo, that was a close one, right? Then I'd be like, What the hell? You know, but like Black Widows, we know it's dead. She's dead, gone, dead and gone. You know, Loki's the only other one that they've messed around with that, but his MO is faking his death in those other situations. That the whole idea is that's what he does. Does it in the comics, he does it in the show, all that stuff. So that makes sense. And Loki died. When he died, he Thanos snapped his neck. That's a dead Loki. He's dead. That Loki's in Valhalla. Now, when he messed with time and he picked up the Tesseract, that's before Thanos snapped his neck. So that changed things, right? So like I think that that's my point is like, as long as you are smart and you use reasons that make sense in your universes or in your in your saga here, you know, the the continuity of them coming back isn't just a literal resurrection, then I don't think we're in that kind of trouble yet. What I like I said, the only thing I would say is I wouldn't want to think that there's characters out there still alive doing their thing that we're never gonna touch base with again. I think that's the part that needs to go away. So if we're not gonna do the X-Men from the one or from uh Fox Universe anymore, then we need to we need to kill them, eliminate them. Whether it's the incursion does it or it's their sacrifice means everyone else lives. Yep. You know, that needs to happen. I agree. But if you want the Fantastic Four one to stay, I can see why we need to figure out why it's gotta stay. Because we're gonna revisit those guys again. I think that's the key. Is as long as it makes sense, I will follow. I don't mind the direction of it. I don't mind the multiverse properly or the Properties of it. I don't mind the complexity of it. I I like the magic stuff too. What I mind is I don't get it. And that's what my problem is with the magic stuff. I want the magic stuff to be in the MCU, but I don't get it. And it makes me not like what they've done with it. I don't mind the multiverse thing, but we don't quite understand yet, still, and we're coming to the end of it, what multiverse really, really means in the long run. Yeah. What's really this or that? We get an idea, we have some things for sure, but there's still the question of TVA and what that really means and what they can do and how you know all that stuff, right? And I think that that's the problem that they've had is they just didn't make sure it stayed very clear. You know, and a lot of that comes back to we don't have a very clear direction of where we're going. Then when they did have one, it's got screwed up and it was shoot. You know, and they screwed it up and now they're fixing it. So it makes it even more complicated. So I I'm okay with them not getting rid of the multiverse. But I just want them to get rid of what we're not gonna do again.

SPEAKER_04 1:51:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:51:07

That to me, this is your chance. Because then in the future you can say they're gone.

SPEAKER_04 1:51:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:51:13

You know? If they're smart, we'll never see Robert Downey Jr. play Iron Man ever again if they're smart. For this reason, right? And so far, they could have done this and they haven't done it yet.

SPEAKER_04 1:51:25

Yeah, that's true.

SPEAKER_02 1:51:26

And I kind of hope we go into Secret Wars and we don't get a Robert Downey Jr. Iron Man. I would love if Iron Man shows up in Secret Wars and oh my god, that's Iron Man, and he lands and the thing pops up and it's Tom Cruise. That's the kind of stuff you can get away with because it's a multiverse, it doesn't matter. But keep it away from Robert because I think his death means so much that if you even associate it enough. Like I I even told you if they do an AI version of him just because he made it, I'd be pissed. And they've stayed away from that. How long has it been? And he's just been gone. And I think that we feel that. You know, we feel it, and I think that that needs to stay that way. And and uh unlike what everyone else for some reason is saying, Marvel hasn't failed at that yet. When these characters go, they go. And they haven't come back yet. The ones that have died have died. That's true. Actually, that's very you have to give credit where credit's due. And and so far that works. What's not working is what the shit means. Yeah. And that's why when you hear they're not getting rid of the multiverse, part of you goes, Oh, is that gonna complicate things? Because I don't get it.

SPEAKER_00 1:52:29

You know, uh I'm glad you said that, and you brought clarity to that, and I think everyone needs to to realize that. The aside from a couple poorly written movies and character lines, the only big sticking point of the whole multiverse saga that has turned people off is we don't know what it means. Right. That doesn't mean we don't like the multiverse, it just means that you haven't established perimeters and uh the the laws about it. You know, you haven't given us definitions of these things.

SPEAKER_02 1:53:08

Yes, and that's the makes it feel like nothing matters.

SPEAKER_00 1:53:11

That's the problem we have with magic. That's right. I love magic in the MCU. I love seeing Agatha Harkness being there and the the uh exploring the idea of witches being in the MCU and Doctor Strange being able to do some of these crazy things. I love all that stuff. The problem is you don't define what these characters mean, what their what their skill sets mean, what their titles mean. And therefore, it's so muddled. Now I kind of cringe when I see one come on screen because I'm like, well, what can you do different than the other guy? Because y'all seem to do the same thing.

SPEAKER_02 1:53:46

And that's not explained. And it also makes you feel like that they can just do whatever they want because they're just gonna say, we just hadn't told you yet. Yeah, no, it's like that's not this far along, it's too late.

SPEAKER_00 1:53:55

Yeah, and just like just like with the the magic stuff, the multiverse stuff, establish some perimeters of some things. You have great concepts out there like anchor beings and all this different stuff. Now, this is where the Rooster brothers should come in when it comes to Doomsday and tell us what some of this stuff means. Because they're able to explain time travel within two senses, and we got it. And it there was it was fine.

SPEAKER_02 1:54:18

Yeah, and it and it made it intense. Yes. Yeah. I would say by the time you get to Infinity War, you realize you understand, you at least understand the stakes, what's happening, what it can be. We saw the trailer, oh, it's happening, it's gonna be cool. When you're watching a movie, not once do you think you know that some character is gonna do something that's out of play that is just unexplained to you. From Infinity War to the end of Endgame, anything they've shown you about these characters before is all they keep in the balance of what they're doing. Yep. And because for 10 years or 11 years, it was clear each time a new thing was introduced, you understood what that meant, why it meant that, and where it's going. Yep. And that's the thing that they're not doing right now. So yeah, right now it's almost like, oh, get rid of the multiverse, it sucks. But it's like it doesn't. It's just it's not, it's not being it's unorganized. That's the problem. And and part of it is, and they're gonna use that to their advantage. I just feel like I'm hoping I don't watch this movie and see that they use it to their advantage in a way that we're just gonna do things because you don't know, and hopefully it flies by. And it's and you know, if if I don't feel the stakes, these movies are gonna suck, you know, and yeah, and that's gonna be the problem.

SPEAKER_00 1:55:32

You know, it's like, and right now it is a problem. That's gonna be the worst feeling of Doomsday is gonna be we get into the movie and we're supposed to like it because of a big ensemble, and it doesn't have a good enough story to justify it. Yeah, I feel like that's the worry I have for the doomsday.

SPEAKER_02 1:55:49

I agree with that's a hundred percent. I I it's like you get in, it's like putting a movie on, guys. Put it this way it'd be like putting a movie on, and the first part of the movie you watch is the ultimate big, bad, climactic fight between the good guy and the bad guy. And they do things that you should be going awesome, but you don't know because you haven't seen the first part of the movie yet. Right? So, like then we're gonna give you the first part of the movie. So it's like, oh, that's not how this works. Like, you need these things to have that payoff. Yeah, right. And I and I think that that's something that I feel fear is gonna lack in this. Or Doom is gonna do some magic thing that's gonna stop somebody from doing something to him, and it's meant to be cool, and it probably is cool, but it's gonna go over our head because that was never the bounds of what that means wasn't set for us. Yes, yes. When it's been already.

SPEAKER_00 1:56:45

Yes, that's the one thing I worry about with the X-Men. We're gonna we're gonna go crazy when we see Magneto and Sir Ian McClellan portraying him and Patrick Stewart on screen and James Marsden finally coming back as Psycops. We're gonna go crazy for the first minute. But if that's all we get of them, is just they're just there just to be there, and there's no there's nothing that makes them why they're there. Yeah, and the trueness of their characters. That's gonna be so disappointing.

SPEAKER_02 1:57:14

And having to explain why Magneto doesn't just destroy everybody. And and and as a joke, but as the truth. We literally just got done watching the X-Men 97 thing, and it's probably one of the best fights we're ever gonna see between him and Apocalypse. And that's Magneto holding his own against the most powerful villain that they've gone up against, besides the Phoenix.

SPEAKER_04 1:57:35

Yep. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:57:37

And it's like if you're gonna get Magneto beat, it's gotta be by something like that.

SPEAKER_04 1:57:41

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 1:57:42

Yes. And if Doom's that, then you are got you guys are going too hard. Doom can't be that.

SPEAKER_00 1:57:49

Right?

SPEAKER_02 1:57:51

I well, the problem is I mean, I think he's gonna be to a degree.

SPEAKER_00 1:57:55

He with the same time. It's well, this is your intro to Doom. We've talked about this before, where you're now setting up a great character to fail on your introduction. Right. You're going to the god level Doom, which in the comics he spends decades building up to that, and then the payoff is so worth it. Yeah. You're starting off with the high, and everything after that's gonna be low.

SPEAKER_02 1:58:21

Because gosh, you you think back to Guardians of the Galaxy is when we learn that Thanos is collecting the stones. You know, they don't need to tell us that in Infinity War. We know that's happening.

SPEAKER_04 1:58:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:58:31

And then what which one is it where he says, fine, I'll do it myself. They put that's the end of uh end of the age of Ultron. Yeah, so you know he's coming. Yeah. And this is what he's doing. It's like, so when we get to Infinity War, you don't need any of that exposition because we've had 10 years of it. Yep. Now we're we're gonna need to know, doing that, I know this magic, and it's this one that does this to these guys because they're sorcerers and this is a witch and this is that, and blah, blah, blah. So when Magneto comes at me with his metal stuff, I can go magicy, magicy, and he can't do it no more. And we're gonna be like, okay, that makes sense. But then it's like, oh, we're already an hour and a half into this movie. Jesus. You know what I mean? Like and it's like to me, it's like that could have been easily done if you just would have if you had this plan now from the start. Yep. And we understood what magic meant.

SPEAKER_00 1:59:11

Yep. And you had teases of doom throughout the multiverse phase.

SPEAKER_02 1:59:15

Certain colors of magic do certain things. So then when Magneto goes to do something and you see the color, us as an audience, oh, that's right, he can do that. And that's where that emotion comes from. You know, it's not gonna, we're gonna learn it as it happens, it's not the same, you know. Yeah. You know, all the stuff we saw in Infinity War and Endgame was reacting to what we knew was coming. And we're like, oh, we're seeing this now. Oh, cool, that's a cool way to see that now. Oh, that's how that worked. Because we already understood this is how it works. This is how it's being done. Hell, we knew how half the stones were at 90% of the time. There's only a couple of them that they had introduced, really. I mean, I don't even know what they're doing. Just a soul stone. That's the only one they had to introduce.

SPEAKER_00 1:59:52

They had to introduce, yeah. All the other ones we knew in acting.

SPEAKER_02 1:59:55

We saw a whole movie of that. Yep. Yeah, so it's like it's yeah, that that's that's their mistake. That's their mistake. But that's all I really got to say about the rest of that, to be honest with you.

SPEAKER_00 2:00:03

Yeah. But yeah, no, I agree. I just it's I don't know. It to me, if this rumor is true, it pulls up just more question marks in my head of how are they gonna do phase seven onward then? Is that because I was always under the impression, as you guys that are listening and watching us probably are too, this is supposed to end the multiverse saga. How do you end the multiverse saga if you keep the multiverse still intact and all these characters go back to their respective universes? So it's who knows? Maybe they have a brilliant idea and it's just a tool for the future. But yeah, we don't know. Guys, the question is for you. Do you think multiverse should still be intact after Secret Wars? Do you think it should be disassembled? Do you think we should go the one main timeline now for the rest of the history of the MCU? Comment below and let us know your thoughts. All right, guys. There goes our Rumor rundown. That's done. The next part of our Multiverse episode.

SPEAKER_02 2:01:05

Uh, what are we doing, Ike? We're gonna do a branch point breakdown, and it's gonna be of the Guardians holiday special, Christmas, Christmas time in July. Yeah. We're gonna have a good time to talk about it. We've watched a few times, it's definitely refreshing, and it'll be fun discussing how that went.

SPEAKER_00 2:01:19

Yeah, hope you like our take on it, and you're gonna hear it right now.

SPEAKER_02 2:01:29

Hello, everybody. So, welcome to our segment of the Branch Point breakdown. Thanks for sticking with us this far. We're excited about what we've got to talk about today. We're uh what are we talking about today, Sammy, real quick? I'll do the history of it. Guardians of the galaxy, the holiday special. Yes. Holiday. It's Christmas in July here in New York. We are ready for this thing, man. So I'm gonna go ahead and break down this thing about the history of it and give you a quick synopsis, and I'll have Sammy give the synopsis, and then I'll kind of give you a breakdown of the story, and we'll uh go through our, you know, our little list that we usually do. And this was a fun one. This was different, and I missed the days of holiday specials. So this this was a good treat for this freaking hot weather we got going on right now. Yeah. Holy Lord, guys. It's all right. Today is, anyways. So, guys, we're doing Guardian of the Galaxy, uh holiday special. His release date was November 25th, 2022. Perfect time for sit down around Thanksgiving and more like the old school ones used to be. They're so smart. Casting this one is Palm Clemente, David Batista, good old Dave, Kevin Bacon, Chris Pratt, Karen Gillen, Sean Gunn, and Bradley Cooper. So the history behind this film, really quick, guys, is the Guardians of the Galaxy holiday special was conceived years before audiences ever saw it on Disney Plus. Rider director James Gunn revealed that the first that he first came up with the idea while making Guardians of the Galaxy Volume 2 in 2016 and 17, inspired by classic television Christmas specials and his desire to tell a smaller, light-hearted story centered on the Guardians of the family rather than making another galaxy-spanning adventure. Gunn wanted a festive character piece that would bridge the gap between the Thor, Love and Thunder appearances and Guardians of the Galaxy Volume 3, while also revealing important character developments before the trilogy's conclusion. Marvel Studios officially announced the project during Disney's Investor Day in December 2020 as only the second Marvel Studios special presentation following Werewolf by Night. Now we got three, right? Technically. Yeah, we do. With uh Punisher, yeah. By the time filming began in February 2022, the Marvel Cinematic Universe was deep into phase four. It experimented with new storytelling formats on Disney Plus. Series such as WandaVision, Loki, Moon Knight, and Miss Marvel had expanded the MCU into streaming, while films like Spider-Man, No Way Home, and Doctor Strange and the Multiverse of Madness were pushing the Multiverse saga forward. The Holiday Special served as a palette cleanser between larger MCU stories focusing on humor and galaxy oh, sorry, humor and relationships rather than universe ending stakes. At the same time, Marvel was filming Guardians of Galaxy Volume 3, allowing the holiday special to be shot simultaneously on many of the same sets in Trillis Studios in Atlanta. I say that name right? Pretty close, right? Yeah, you did. With additional filming in Los Angeles, shooting both projects together allowed studios in Atlanta with additional films. Oh, sorry, shooting both projects together allowed Marvel to save time and money by using the same costumes, makeup teams, visual effects, asset assess assets, and no and nowhere sets. That's so smart to do it when you have all that stuff ready to go. The Returning Cast was also an interesting uh was also an interesting point in their careers. Pris Kratt. Chris Pratt had become one of Hollywood's biggest leading men after Jurassic World. The Tomorrow War. Oh, we should do the Tomorrow War as a retrospective. Yes. That movie's so freaking good. Anyway. Um, and it's and his continued success as Star Lord. Dave Batista was balancing his Marvel role and acclaimed dramatic performance in Dune and Glass Onion while also preparing to say goodbye to Drags, a character he had publicly stated he felt was reaching a natural conclusion. Palm Clemingteef had become a fan favorite as Mantis and finally received a larger leading role. With much of the special special revolving around her relationship with Drax and Peter Quill, Karen Gillen continued expanding Nebula into one of the MCU's most emotionally layered characters, while Sean Gunn enjoyed an expanded role as Karen Cargan, right? The special also introduced Maria Beklova as the voice of Cosmo and Space Dog, or the Space Dog, before her larger appearance in Guardians of the Galaxy Volume 3. One of the biggest attractions of the special was the involvement of Kevin the Bacon, who also played a fictionalized version of himself. Bacon had been referenced repeatedly in original Guardians of the Galaxy when Peter Quill described him as one of the Earth's greatest heroes because of Footloose. James Gunn had previously worked with Bacon on a 2010 superhero film, Super, giving the two a long-standing friendship. When Gunn asked him to appear as himself, Bacon immediately accepted. He later said he loved the opportunity to poke fun at himself, run from Aliens through Beverly Hills, and even performed the special cozy and musical number. Bacon also admitted he had no idea he had been referenced in the first Guardians film until he watched it in theaters, making the holiday special a full circle payoff to an eight-year running joke. During filming Bacon joked that he rarely saw the actors out of costume because they remained in full makeup while shooting, making the experience feel like stepping into another world. Behind the scenes, gun approached the production like an old-fashioned television Christmas special, complete with practical decorations, colorful lighting, original songs, and an intentional sedimental tone. Much of Nowhere's festive appearance was built physically rather than created entirely through CGI, allowing the cast to interact with real Christmas sets and decorations. The soundtrack mixed classic holiday music with original songs by the fictional alien band, The Old 97s, including I Don't Know What Christmas Is, but Christmas is here. Gunt described making the holiday special as a refreshing break from the much heavier emotional story he was simultaneously filming for Guardians of the Galaxy Volume 3, allowing the cast to enjoy a more comedic production between dramatic scenes. Like other Disney Plus originals, the special did not receive a theatrical release, so it generated no box office revenue. Marvel Studios of Disney have also never publicly disclosed its production budget or official Disney Plus viewership numbers. Independent streaming analysis report that it performed well during the Thanksgiving and Christmas seasons and consistently ranked among the platform's most watched titles during its debut. But Disney was never released, has never released verified viewing figures or subscriber engagement statistics. Critically, the holiday special became one of Marvel's best-reviewed Disney Plus productions. It currently holds a 95% critic score on Rotten Tomatoes, based on 64 reviews and an 81% audience score, with critics praising its heartfelt humor, brisk 44-minute runtime, chemistry between Drax and Mantis, and Kevin Bacon's willingness to embrace the absurd premise. Many reviewers considered it a welcome reminder of what made James Gunn's Guardians film so beloved, highlighting its emphasis on friendship, family, and optimism over large-scale superhero spectacle.

SPEAKER_00 2:08:50

So, yeah, Sammy, what's the quick synopsis on this? Alright, the synopsis is the Guardians are on a mission to make Christmas unforgettable for Quill and head to Earth in search for the perfect present.

SPEAKER_02 2:09:03

Yes, yeah. So quick story breakdown for this guy's is basically uh the team kind of sees how sad Peter Quill is for not having Christmas anymore and from what he remembers as a child. So Mantis and Drax decide to go to Hollywood and steal somebody as a gift to bring to Peter Quill to bring the Christmas joy and then shenanigans ensue. And it's got some great actual music in it, some fun, you know, it's just a good time. So we're gonna go ahead and start talking about this sucker and start breaking it down. We had a much longer story beats for you to talk, but we both looked at each other and says, Man, that kind of tells the whole story. So we just I just kind of gave it to you off the top of my head, folks. But we are ready for this. I'm I cannot believe how fun this actually was, to be honest. And I'm just I just want to kind of quickly get off right off the top because we're both gonna say it probably a couple times. Uh what a refreshing thing to see someone decide to do a Christmas special. And we we I say I feel like the Marvel Cinematic Universe needed this. You know, because like spoiler alert, I guess, but there's no villains. Mm-hmm. You know, we don't have any. This is not that kind of story. Yeah. And I think that that's what I like about it the most, is like we there's actually a lot in this to unpack when it comes down to character stuff, believe it or not, but yet still unconsequential. So like let's say you're someone that I refuse to watch Disney Plus stuff, you can go from Guardians 2 into Guardians 3, and it doesn't change anything. Guardians 3 doesn't make anything that happened in 2 relevant at all, really. I mean, there's a couple nuanced things that you find out that you might get a little more payoff, but not a lot. There's maybe one thing I could think of that's big enough to be mentioned. The rest is like, it's just it's just a story that happened. You know, nothing really happens in this, which is uh uh which is uh actually a good thing, not a bad thing when I say it. Sometimes you say nothing happened, it's bad, but this time it's good. You know, and it worked for that reason. So, you know, that's kind of right off the bat, that's my first initial thoughts of this whole thing, to be honest with you.

SPEAKER_00 2:11:08

Yeah, yeah. I I love the the history breakdown that you gave, I think kind of puts this in perspective too. This is the best way for them to film a special like this. It's in the midst of their own production of the movie, so it's not like they had, I mean, Disney doesn't reveal the budget for these things. So, for all we know, the budget for this was tied into Guardians 3 because they're already in the middle of filming it, it just was done at the same time. But we can't confirm that. Now, always I always wonder why Disney is not releasing their streaming views and all that stuff just for its own self promotion. Because if someone's listening to it and say, Oh, everyone loves this, and Disney releases the almost like 50% or 80% of their subscribers watch this on this day. You might get more people that would be interested to watch it, you know? Things like that. So I don't know. I I guess I can see the plus and minuses of it, and they're just like, We're just not gonna do it. But I do want to know what's the actual view count, you know, what are they seeing for for people and release that to us that are reviewing these things, you know?

SPEAKER_02 2:12:10

I think a lot of people watched it, you know. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:12:12

I feel like this was the more favorable thing during that time. Yeah. And I completely agree with you. I like that the story didn't have a villain, it was just a fun watch.

unknown 2:12:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:12:21

You know?

SPEAKER_02 2:12:22

And much like Werewolf by Night, this is what Disney Plus should be doing. Yes. These kind of things. We don't need these shows. And that's that's saying as good as WandaVision is, when we get to talking about that, you guys will see that we love it. But I I will say, I think I'd rather trade that out and not have it because it was a start of a complication that I'm not a fan of. You know, and that's that's a hard I kind of just wish they would have made a Scarlet Witch movie.

SPEAKER_04 2:12:48

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 2:12:48

At that time, it could have been a movie. That could have so good it could have been the movie. And and that's that's I think that maybe they look it back, they're like, Oh, we just would have made that movie.

SPEAKER_04 2:12:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:12:57

With the movie even going from the different stages from black and white to 90s, you know, the way they did it, they could have made structured the movie that way too. We still would have been on board.

SPEAKER_00 2:13:05

It would have been crazy cool, honestly, watching it be like, whoa, like the different turns and twists in the movie. Yeah, anyways. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:13:12

That's right. So we'll talk about that when we get to that one.

SPEAKER_00 2:13:15

Yeah. No, I agree to that too, because from what I remember of that, that was one of the only Disney Plus shows that actually was very successful. Yeah. And it was their first one. So it kind of gave this uh unintentional false impression of all the rest of the shows are gonna be as crazy cool as WandaVision that did not happen. Yeah, it's a great start.

SPEAKER_02 2:13:31

And it was like, oh, we're not gonna get more of these. This is gonna be done.

SPEAKER_00 2:13:35

Yeah, but but for this in particular, I agree with you. I think this is this is funny, this is good, this is lighthearted, it's perfect holiday time. Like it's really cool. We have it playing on the background right now, and they're going through some of the funniest scenes. And I'm like, holy smokes, this is this is something that we like. Yeah, you know, so all right. Well, we're we're gonna dive into like our casting and performances and things like that, you know, our normal deep dives, guys. So, who would you give as the best performance for this uh short?

SPEAKER_02 2:14:04

Believe it or not, I kind of was going between a couple different people, but there's the neat thing about this is there's not so much going on that it's like hard to pick. But to me per personally, I'm gonna give it to Mantis. I'm gonna give it to Pom Flee because like this is the first time she gets to really lead it for one. And I love the dynamics between her and Drags. It's just go, it's like gold, you know. Yeah, you they could do a TV show together. True. Yes, you know what I'm saying? Like, but like there's things she gets to do in this that she didn't get to do in the other stuff, and she gets to take a lead and play with around with the character, and it's really the only emotional way of the story with Peter and her. So I'm gonna give it to her because especially that end scene when she talks to Peter is probably the best acting of her mantis stuff, actually, in most of what she's done.

SPEAKER_00 2:14:51

Yeah, maybe not Guardian's three, Guardian's 3 really goes there, but like Yeah, but uh up until this point, or at least for us, yeah, because we hadn't seen Guardians 3 yet. We only see her in the the after Guardians 2, we only see her in like Infinity War and Um the Beginning of Love and Thunder, but that's it. So she's still just a comedic tones, and this is perfect comedic tones for her, but the more serious stuff comes in Guardians 3, and it's and this does touch upon especially the end of the special. That was really great uh emotional performance from her specific. Yes, yeah, I agree. So that's I'm gonna give it to her for sure. I completely agree. I'm gonna give it the same thing for her. Uh it was either her or Drax for me. Yeah, and uh, I think that she this is definitely her time to shine more, I feel like. So yeah. Um, let's see. Gotta turn my page guy. Sorry, my fingers are sticking. Most surprising performance. So that's the one I'm gonna give to Drax. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 2:15:49

And it's not, and why I say that is because he he he was still just Drax.

SPEAKER_04 2:15:53

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 2:15:53

You know, he didn't really, there wasn't anything that you haven't seen already. It's just more fun and funny. What I will say though is it reminds you that for some reason, Dave Patista and how he does Drax and the way they film him and the choices they make, it just never gets old. Like there's characters that are funny and I like, we're gonna talk about one later in the next retrospective, that are funny and that I love, but they're not always funny and they don't always hit. But Drax is almost every time, man. Like he just has this way about him that's so dead face about it, so pan-faced, that makes it work that you just he's so funny. Like it's like, and every time he's doing something wild, he's laughing through it. I never that never gets old to me. The idea of who he is never gets old. And they did some stuff with his character that you didn't know that you couldn't, that you we didn't know he could even do until we you know, until this happened. So I I'm gonna give it to him because it just it's what surprised me about it though was he still got me chuckling every time in it. And I thought someday this is gonna get old, right? And it just never has, even in the third movie, it never does. He's so good as this character, really. It made me, it's so good that it made me when I was watching this realize he's not doing drags anymore. And I'm kind of like, oh, it's sad we're never gonna see him again. You know? And it's out of all the people that see an endgame and all that, or not endgame, but in Doomsday and Secret Wars, we're not gonna see him. It's not gonna happen. He's done. Yeah. I mean, unless it's a unless there's a surprise that we don't that's gonna get us by left field, but we're just not gonna see him again. And and that's sad because he's one of my favorite characters in the MCU. Like definitely within top 15 at least.

SPEAKER_00 2:17:27

He's so and it's been a while that I've seen Guardians 3, so uh that I'm gonna be a little flaky on this at the moment or uh sketchy on this, but the um I don't think they ended ended his run at the end of it. No. Right? I think he personally was like, I'm done. Yeah, but the character is still there and still could come back and things like that. So in the under the right circumstances, and if David says, like, yeah, I'll reprise my world, he could come back for Secret Wars or something or whatever, you know.

SPEAKER_02 2:18:01

Um he made a very big stand with the James Gunn debacle they had. Yeah. And the part of that stand was I will not play this character unless James is directing me. So unless they ask James to do something, he's not gonna do it. And I think he's serious. Once again, they could, there could be something. You sure, bud? You know, he might be, well, I guess. You know, I really seem serious.

SPEAKER_00 2:18:26

He's the more vocal, outspoken of them when it came to that.

SPEAKER_02 2:18:30

Yeah, I think he's as serious as Christian Bale is about Batman. Because Christian Bale still says this, hey, I'll play Batman again, only for Christopher Nolan. And with no Christopher Nolan, you're never gonna get that that Batman again. And but it's only because of the trust that was there, right, with that character. And I think that Dave and James had that. Because James, let's be honest, I think James is the reason Dave has the movie career he has rate. Because he was just a wrestler that we're all here comes another wrestler, you know what I mean? And then he ends up being, in my opinion, the top three big wrestlers acting today would be who The Rock, uh, what's his face? You can't see him, John Cena, and uh and Dave, you know. Um in the rock, I'm gonna be honest, he's gone boring, he's the same guy every time, you know. And but I like him. He's I like him, but 99% of the time you know what you're getting. Um and I think uh I do think John Cena's excel at when he did more James Gunn stuff with it comes down to the acting chops for it. Yeah, and playing the peacemaker is amazing. Like, but like uh Dave, though, surprisingly, is really good. We mentioned the movies in the in the whole thing there where it was like he in Glass Onion, he's excellent in Glass Onion. And and I think it's and he's he's a legit actor, you know, and he's becoming a legit actor too, as we've seen. He's picking things for that. Um so but I think that it's there is a uh friendship there that you know he I think is he's pretty upset. I think he even said he wasn't gonna be in it unless they hired him back. I'm not saying it was part of why they hired him back, but I bet you that was in the conversation.

SPEAKER_00 2:20:04

Yeah. Well, see that like I said before, he's very outspoken about so that's what we all knew publicly. Yeah. Behind the scenes, there could be a lot of other things going on. People that weren't going on their Twitter and saying it were probably saying it too to a degree, or had his backing, or I mean that situation, when we get to our retrospective of Guardians 3, we are gonna touch upon why it took so long, why it is what it is, and what happened behind the scenes, because that is a big deal in Disney and in Marvel and things like that. Um, and I I have a kind of a hot take on that when we get there, but we'll get there when we get there. For this, yeah, um, for this special and for that what you're talking about of Dave Bautista and things like that. I think that I I think what he said outwardly on his social accounts was the exact same thing he was saying privately to Kevin Feige and Disney and company. I agree. Is that the same thing. He just was he just wasn't um saying it behind the scenes like most of the other people. He was also saying it to our face and being part of the news cycle as opposed to just, you know, behind the scenes.

SPEAKER_02 2:21:09

I'm gonna get more in depth when we do Guardians 3 retrospective about how I think out of all the Marvel movies and people that are acting for them and all the productions, that Guardians seemed to get the worst end of cancel culture and they didn't deserve it. You know, because between Dave threatening like he did, and after they got rid of James Gunn for, I'm not saying bogus, but for something that makes you go, really, this is what we're gonna do now. And then also this campaign to get rid of Chris Pratt that's been going on for a while. Oh, yes, and it's it's just such a why, because he's a Christian and he eats meat, guys. Get over it. He's a guy. Let him live his life. We're live in the United States, we can all do what we want to do. He doesn't do anything wrong, you know. And it's like, but they but some people I've seen it, you know, tons of stuff that say, you know, get him out of here. He's not, yeah, he just and that, blah, blah, blah. No, he's fine. You know, he's one of the better actors in the MCU.

SPEAKER_00 2:21:57

So well, the thing about that, I'll only touch upon that real quick because we are gonna do that for the Guardians 3 thing. But guys, when you have Hollywood is known for its diversity, but the problem is diversity is not limited to just your skin color or your body type. Diversity of thought has to be included when you talk about diversity. So you can have a Muslim actor and a Christian actor working in the same film together and they're just doing Hollywood stuff. That's fine. But you can't be so pigeonholed into, oh, because he's a Christian, therefore he can't be this. Oh, he may have more conservative views, therefore he can't be in this. No, come on. Diversity of thought is diversity in and of itself. So you either are for diversity or you're not. Just say it. That's the end of that for me. Yeah, but for this special, I'm gonna put for my most surprising performance actually as Kevin Bacon. Yeah, I'm I'm glad you are. The reason I'm doing that, I love Kevin Bacon, by the way. He is a hero. But he's a great Sebastian Stan in first class. I can't wait for that. But anyways, but appending that for later, um, I love that he said yes to this and the meta-ness of him playing himself. He's still acting, he's doing a caricature of himself, but at the same time, it's I I love how he played right into it. And I love actors that are okay with making fun of yourself because I think a lot of them take themselves a little too seriously sometimes. They never want to do something that makes a makes them feel like they're in a bad light. Just it kick back, relax, enjoy, and make fun of the quirkiness about it, you know. And I I like that. I like that he played himself because there's not that many actors I would I can say that I know they would play themselves in the role like this. And actually, it's the only ones that come to my head are kind of surprised ones to be like, okay, I see that if you really look into it, but he is one of them now because of this, and it's really cool.

SPEAKER_02 2:23:56

Yeah, he, as an actor alone, I've seen I've he's been one of my fan favorites for a long time. We're gonna do a retro on Tremors sometime this summer. And I've loved him for a long time. But he even in interviews where you see him on red carpets or when he's talking to people, I'm not gonna speak for his personal life. I'm sure there's been hardships, and especially when it comes down to being famous, but he's very famously known for not letting that show at all. And he's always a happy guy, he's always excited. He's been on the record stating things there, it's not word for word, but things like I'm just feel lucky to do this job. Like, so I I think that's his approach to a lot of this, you know, and and he doesn't take it. He might, I might be wrong, Kevin. I apologize if I'm wrong, but he never lets us see the side of him that takes anything personal if it doesn't work. He looks at it as there's wins and there's misses. And he's got more wins and misses, but he's had some misses in movies and and he gets that. But you know, I don't ever he never comes off as distraught. Like some of these other actors have these bad times, you can kind of tell on their face when you see him and all that. Kevin just seems to be, I'm just hey, I'm I'm lucky that I got this job. Because he knows he could be any of us grunts out here just living life. Not that this is a bad life either. I'm happy as I'm happy as hell too. But you know, it would be nice to be an actor. I mean, I it would be that's a very privileged job to have. Yeah. You know, and it's like it's a very you get to see a lot of stuff, you meet a lot of different people, you make a lot of freaking money. You know what I mean? Like you get to pretend to be things, you know, you get to do things we used to when we were 11 out of the plate and out in the out in the sandbox, you know. So I think it's cool, you know, and I think it's a good art form. And he's an artist, he's a great actor. He's you know, he's one of those everybody's actor kind of thing. I play six degrees of Kevin Bacon all the time. He's been in so many freaking movies, it's a fun game to play. You know, we could even maybe we'll play a version of it on here for one of our games. Well, I'll teach you how it's pretty easy. But problem is he's got a ton of movies, and I'm not sure we both could do that. You know what I mean? So we'll see.

SPEAKER_00 2:25:48

Yeah, but I might struggle a little bit. But anyways.

SPEAKER_02 2:25:50

But it's a lot of fun. And but yeah, I'm I'm glad you picked that as your most surprising. I do have him on here as something though. Uh, but yeah, that I do I'm glad you picked that though, because he what a treat to see him in this, his reactions to all this.

SPEAKER_00 2:26:02

Like Yeah. Yeah. So what would you say is the weakest performance of them all?

SPEAKER_02 2:26:05

I'm gonna give it to Nebula because she just is there. She doesn't really say a lot. Like she m moves the lever, says a few things here and there towards the end. But that's Nebula, there's nothing about her that was necessary in this, and um nothing wrong with her performance, but there's you gotta pick a weakness in a 44-minute thing that has no stakes and it's just people hanging out. Uh I guess we didn't do anything with her, so that's it. I guess that's how I'm gonna do that.

SPEAKER_00 2:26:32

I I didn't write anyone down because I couldn't think of one that was like I couldn't think of a weak character, so to speak. Even the ones I'm like, oh, I normally would go for this one, be like, no, he actually said a line in here, or she said a line here. Then I'm like, okay, I I can't give it to her because she delivered the line or whatever, you know. So I I left that blank for me. Uh but casting wins or misses.

SPEAKER_02 2:26:52

This is where I put Kevin Bacon for casting win for that reason. Because it's like he's just, are you gonna play yourself? You're gonna do this, and he's just like, I'm in. Yeah. And you could tell he just had fun. He just, I'm just gonna have a good time. Yeah. And yeah, it's 100% Kevin.

SPEAKER_00 2:27:05

Yeah, I put the same thing for that too. And you miss opportunities or waste of potential, you feel, for the story or for the characters.

SPEAKER_02 2:27:10

Yeah. Um I don't think it changed, it doesn't change how I feel about this thing at all. In fact, the score is not gonna reflect this at all. I will say though, I had one moment where I'm kind of like, and I know she can't be there because of the story and what's going on at this time, but seeing this group together and stuff, it was a little like, oh, I mean, Gamora's not there.

SPEAKER_04 2:27:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:27:33

There was there's a there is an absence of her in that sense. Um, but I but at the same time, it she wouldn't be there with where the story is right now. Yeah. So it may it makes sense, but it is noticeable when you do put them together and you don't see one of them, which makes me curious to see what the future of the Guardians IP is gonna be. Because if they are gonna do more Guardians movies, it's gonna be us doing with a new team of people we're not used to seeing, which I like the team we see at the end of Guardians 3, but it's not the same, you know, and and then I'm sure they can figure it out and make it dynamic, but I wonder how that's gonna feel later with that stuff changing, you know. But without her there, it did it was I just noticed it and it didn't bother me. So it just would have been neat if she was there.

SPEAKER_00 2:28:16

Well, it's what's funny, and not not to throw a wrench in this because we're gonna have that conversation when we get to Guardians 3, but I didn't like the team at the end of Guardians 3. That's I well, I just me personally.

SPEAKER_02 2:28:26

Yeah, no, I we might be similar then, though. I I say it like it because I'm not like it's not there's nothing about the team that makes me go, what the hell? But it is kind of like okay, this is what we got.

SPEAKER_00 2:28:37

Yeah, I feel like okay, or eh, I don't see a movie based off them. Right. But I agree, I can see them showing up in things. That's what my wonder. If they were gonna do a Guardians 4, I would kill half that team off. That'd be part of it.

SPEAKER_03 2:28:56

Oh my god, you gone. We're about to talk about a movie whether you do that.

SPEAKER_02 2:29:02

Right.

SPEAKER_03 2:29:04

Yeah, no, I I got dark though, glorious guys.

SPEAKER_02 2:29:07

I I hear you though. I I'm mixed on it because we only got that shot of him.

SPEAKER_03 2:29:10

Yeah, that was enough. It could be cool. I mean, it could be cool, but Sean Gunn's the first to go. See, I he was endearing in this.

SPEAKER_00 2:29:19

He is in this one. Yes, I agree. Yeah, I'm sorry, Sean, if you're listening to this and you're like, yeah, this guy just really hates me. I don't hate you. It's just not my favorite. Sorry. I gotcha. I gotcha. One of these days I'll I'll I'll get your autograph just to say I got it and say good job. Because you do a good job. It's just you're lower on the tier. So, anyways, poor Sean gone. I'm not I'm gonna move on from this before I keep digging a hole. So, um, yeah, uh, I agree that the the Gamora thing, uh, she brought a certain um flavor to the Guardians that you it was very apparent in this, and it's nice that this came out before the Guardians 3 because it gave you that taste of it, and actually that kind of compliments her character when you do see her in Guardians 3 because that they they were very solid on this is a different Gamora, this is a different character, basically. And so when we get to Guardians 3 retrospective, guys, I know you're getting a lot of previews of it right now, but we will dive into that a lot more because that's that's actually a cool thing about that movie. But um, yeah, I didn't have anything for me for waste of potential or anything. Gotcha. All right, so direction and production of this whole thing. So just a couple things.

SPEAKER_02 2:30:35

I think it's once again, just a recap on the idea that it's pretty plain. It's there's nothing in here that we haven't seen before, nothing's done that we, you know, we haven't really seen before. The only thing that sticks out to me is their willingness to do the Christmas songs and have original songs and actually have Kevin Bacon play the music because he's actually a pretty good singer and for you know for what he does. So I think that just sticks out to me the most is I think everybody on this set was just having fun. I don't think there was a stressful day on this whole thing at all. I think they're just like, hey, do that. Yeah, that works, and that's fun. Just dance around, just do this. I really think they had a ball and it just shows um because it you know, nothing sticks out. The CGI's fine. There's there's a few moments you can tell they use a little less money on it, but nothing's serious, nothing makes you go, what the hell, you know. And I yeah, I don't nothing sticks out to me that's that makes it better than the other stuff, other than their choice to do original music and have Kevin play. I think that's that's that's what a Christmas special is.

SPEAKER_00 2:31:37

Yeah, and that was cool.

SPEAKER_02 2:31:38

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's all I got for all that stuff.

SPEAKER_00 2:31:41

I completely agree. I think this is really, really well done for uh visual effects, for any of the action that you saw, the score, everything. Good job, James Gunn. You really did a good job with that. Oh yeah, yeah. Um all right, so now we're gonna do some hot takes. Uh do you want to do yours first or do you want me to do mine first?

SPEAKER_02 2:31:57

I I will say mine real quick because it's easy and quick.

SPEAKER_04 2:32:01

This Guardian special might be better than half of the MCU. Ooh, okay.

SPEAKER_02 2:32:12

Alright, alright, watch half. Well, I don't I'm not saying a particular like era of the MCU. Yeah. I'm just saying if you're split all the movies up for from good and bad, it goes in the good side and more than the bad. Yeah. I think it's better than more than it's bad. Does that make sense? Like I think there's more bad or worse movies, movies in the MCU than this actual special.

SPEAKER_00 2:32:34

I think what's nice about that to reinforce your hot take is there's not as much pressure for this special. There's not so much weight that's on the shoulders of this special that it has to carry and balance.

SPEAKER_02 2:32:51

Yeah.

unknown 2:32:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:32:52

And for something that doesn't follow a formula the movies have to, it just it just sticks out as well. This is better than some of the movies we get. And I would say it's in the better half. Over 50%. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:33:04

Yeah, no, that's that's a good hot take. So my hot take is this is the perfect balance of giving the audience some new info without making it necessary to know for uh the next Marvel film. Yeah. And there's two big things that came out of this, but then when you watch Guardians 3, you find out you didn't need to know it because they either referenced it in Guardians 3 or they they fleshed some of it out in Guardians 3. And the two things that came out of the special that stuck to me because you know, when you watch something like this, and we have this gripe all the time when it comes to the Disney Plus shows and what you have to know to watch the movies and all that stuff. That's what that's what worries me about the Disney Plus shows. I love it if I could just take it as is, but knowing I have to go into a movie, how much of homework do I have to know to go into that movie? That's the problem. And I think and Kevin for He knows this. That's why he said he doesn't want the MC to feel like homework anymore. So he really is trying to divide that up. And I commend him for finally being able to do that, you know, or attempting to do that. But this special revealed two different two things. I feel they were semi-major, but I'll get to why I think this worked. One is Mantis being Peter's sister. And two, then the Guardians purchased nowhere from the collector. I didn't know any of those two things going into this. And then when you watch Guardians 3, you didn't have to know about the collector thing. They didn't make that part of the plot where you then you had to know why they're there. You just, they're just there. And they reference uh Peter and Mantis actually have more screen time together in the third one. And they say, Well, I am really your sister. And he says, Yeah, I know you're my sister. And you didn't have to brush into what that meant. And so that was refreshing to see that you can reveal something big in this, and then your next feature film, you didn't have to say, Oh, why were they together that much? Oh, it's this unspoken thing, their brother and sister, because your casual moviegoer is not going to know that. They said it in the movie. And I feel like that's some of the things that they lacked, especially when it comes to the disconnect between WandaVision and Multiverse of Madness and some of these other things, is you had to have watched all of WandaVision to know some of the main goals of Wanda's role in Multiverse of Madness. When they could have just said in Multiverse of Madness, do a quick recap of it, and that would have been sufficient enough where you didn't have had to do that homework. So I think that that is also part of the brilliance of James Gunn doing both of those projects, the special and Guardians 3. He could be able to seamlessly weave them together. Um, because I can't give the credit to any of the other people behind the scenes during this time because this was during their quote unquote flop era, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_04 2:35:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:35:55

So, anyways, that my hot take is this is the great example of introducing story development or character development without having to compromise the um integrity of the movies.

SPEAKER_01 2:36:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:36:10

So that's my hot take. I like it. That's good. It's good, true too. Yeah. All right, quick fire questions, answer fast, don't overthink. What is the best scene of the movie for you?

SPEAKER_02 2:36:19

So I picked two specifically for a certain reason. Okay. One is the Chase scene in the house with Kevin Bacon when they get in his house, only because we get to see Mandis do some stuff we never saw her do before. Yeah. And how terrified you're gonna be when you look back and she's like jumping on the walls making those noises. Yes. Like they mean well, but then it's like, what the hell? Like freaking. I thought that was brilliant and I loved it. Every second of that was awesome. The second one is I like it's actually the cartoon part at the end. I like showing Yandu giving the gift to Peter and it's his guns.

SPEAKER_04 2:36:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:36:54

And I like that Peter gave him the gift of that thing that Yandu starts collecting later. And it's like, oh, look at this. That's cool. It's like a nice little add-on, you know? I I just thought those two, those two scenes stuck out to me as my favorite scenes of the show.

SPEAKER_00 2:37:09

I agree. That those are those are really great scenes. But I want to say my favorite scene, it might be scenes, so to speak, is when they arrive on Earth and they're they're just figuring out what they're getting pictures of people. They go to a club thinking Kevin Bacon is there. And that this is so funny.

SPEAKER_01 2:37:27

Oh, it's so funny. I love the comic-con stuff like that. Yeah, it's like they're all dressed up, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:37:31

Yeah, I love that fish out of water feeling, and then seeing those two characters in particular, what they would do. Hilarious. They're wild. Yeah, yeah. So those those are some of my favorite scenes. Um, least favorite scene. I don't have one. I don't have one either. It's a pass. Yep. Mm-hmm. All right.

SPEAKER_02 2:37:47

Best villain moment.

SPEAKER_00 2:37:48

There isn't a villain.

SPEAKER_02 2:37:49

There's no villain, but I I just put a moment in here of like, I just said, what would what's another scene I just loved a lot? A moment that happened that really showcased somebody. I love when Drax flips that cop car. Oh, yeah, yeah. So cool. And and I also like that it shows in that scene that he did Drax could take bullets. Like, oh no, that's all our tickles, and it's like, well, that's cool. That's a thing we didn't realize you could do, you know? That's really neat.

SPEAKER_03 2:38:14

He's laughing mononically as the they're shooting him and be like, So to me, to the cops, he's a villain right now. So it's yeah, I just that's the villain moment.

SPEAKER_02 2:38:23

But there's no villain here, guys.

SPEAKER_00 2:38:24

So this is no real hope. I love Mantis's follow-up. She gives them the candy cane, yeah, and she's like, here, we're even now. We're like, okay. Yeah, they're like, okay. So funny. All right. Um, one prop you oh, I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_02 2:38:40

Most pop punchable face. Most punchable face for me is the lady that gives Mantis the map.

SPEAKER_03 2:38:46

Ah, that's mine, too.

SPEAKER_02 2:38:47

She needs it to go, she's so nasty. Yeah, she's just an old curmudgeon working in the town. She's probably had enough of, but she needs a good old sock to face because you can just calm down.

SPEAKER_03 2:38:57

You know what I mean? Like, oh my gosh. Yeah, that's a good that's a good one.

SPEAKER_02 2:39:01

Just because there's no other punchable faces in this, really.

SPEAKER_00 2:39:03

Not really. No, maybe some of the club people a little bit, but even then, it's not yeah, it's not worthy enough of a punch to the face, you know what I mean? All right. Um, one prop you take home. So I picked that Hollywood Stars map. I thought that'd be kind of cool.

SPEAKER_02 2:39:18

So did I. But uh, that's the only one I could think of. Yeah. That's I was thinking maybe the things they were taking from Kevin's house, but yeah, would you know it's from the movie? You know, would it really stick out? I guess the Hollywood stars map you could say the same thing about, but it was like I think it was a neat prompt though, you know. So let's go with that one. Yeah, there really isn't much, but yeah, I agree. Yeah, it's tough to pick one in this. There's not a lot to pick from, you know. Um what's next? All right, most underrated moment. Yeah, I don't have anything for this either. I can't think I think this movie, I well, I don't know what other people say about it. I honestly this time didn't look up other reviews, so I I can't give an honest answer what I think people aren't thinking about, you know. I guess the whole thing's underrated. If I had to say, yeah, this thing doesn't get talked about enough. Truthfully.

SPEAKER_00 2:40:07

And I think well, to point back to your quote unquote best villain moment, I think that that's a little underrated for uh what Drax actually is capable of, what Mantis is capable of, because all we've seen of Mantis thus far is just this she could she has those uh emotion power, she's an empath, things like that. But she's also pretty skilled at leaping around and doing things like that. So it's like that's that's kind of cool. Yeah, actually. I think that I think that they are those almost those wild cards to be underestimated just because their humor is all you see and know of them, but then when you do a full story on them, they could do a lot more than just that. So, anyways, most overrated moment. That definitely is you know I don't have anything for that either. I wrote down the Captain America cosplayer thing in Mantis. Oh, okay. And the reason why I did it is because she's never met Steve Rogers. I don't think I really don't think ever she met Steve Rogers. Maybe at Tony's funeral, but we didn't see an interaction.

SPEAKER_02 2:41:10

I was just gonna say. I think she know Yeah, I think she's a party there we didn't see yeah, you know, and which maybe that'd be the only argument to know.

SPEAKER_00 2:41:20

Probably again endgame encore. But anyways, moving on. Yeah, so that's that's the only part I did because uh part of me is like we if if it was like a Thor cosplay, I'd say, Oh, it fits because they they met Thor and she immediately mistook him for a really good cosplayer of Thor. But it's a Captain America one, so I'm like, if you had switched out the cosplayers, I wouldn't have brought it in my my thing. Anyways, um, funniest moment.

SPEAKER_02 2:41:48

Got two, and they both go to Mantis, and it's the two times I probably laughed out loud the law the law loudest or alone, basically. And it's when she's arguing with Drax in the beginning about Zarg nuts and the how she says it the last time, like Zarg nuts, like she gets real mean. I like that she does that often where sometimes she's saying something, it's like she doesn't know how to say it, and so she says it that way, thinking, is this how I should say it? And that always makes me laugh. But the way she gets the woman to give her the maps, oh yeah, where she's just like, give me the maps, and she does is like give me all your money. She's always just this is just how she does it. She's so nonchalant about I'm just gonna use my power and get this done, you know? I that made me laugh out loud. Yeah, so I really give it to her for this one. She really had me tickled this whole thing.

SPEAKER_00 2:42:33

I agree. I think I had two moments too. One of them involves mantis and one actually involves nebula. So the mantis one I'm gonna say right off the bat is when they're in the club and they get the drinks, and I love how she she's like this insect. She goes her tongue, and then she drinks it down and she goes for like almost a full minute. Ah, I'm like, oh my word, they're gonna think she's nuts. Then she gets done, she says, I want more, please. Just so funny. I'm like, that is hilarious. She's having a ball with this guy, yeah. And then the nebula one is when they Peter says to Kevin Bacon, don't run, okay? And Kevin immediately starts screaming and running, and he says to the group, go get Kevin Bacon. And Nebula pulls out her guns. She says, I got him. I start laughing. I'm like, not that way. No, stop freaking him out. So I gave it to Nebula for that because it's a perfect character moment for her on that, and be like, there you go.

SPEAKER_02 2:43:34

Good choices, good choices.

SPEAKER_00 2:43:35

All right, uh, most emotional moment.

SPEAKER_02 2:43:37

I'm gonna give it to what she tells him, I'm your sister. Yeah. Because that's where it gets serious, and she really brings it, brings it and he. Yeah. And so does he, and it's really neat. It makes Peter not feel so alone disappointing. Because he's, you know, Gamar's gone, Christmas is there, but it kind of was crazy because it was like a you know, they stole the guy. And like, and but then but it the she just it brought something for him, you know, and he really did that.

SPEAKER_00 2:43:59

So I love when he said that's the bet greatest present I'll ever get.

SPEAKER_04 2:44:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:44:04

How she was being choked up and trying to say it and wondering how he's gonna be, if he's gonna still like her or not, reject her, all that stuff, because she's never known compassion and love like that before, really, ever in her life. I they played the emotional strings of that so well, both of them, and it really highlighted her acting range for that. I loved it.

SPEAKER_02 2:44:25

It still and it reinforces how good Chris is in this role. He's just so good in that.

SPEAKER_00 2:44:30

Yeah, yeah. All right, so uh final scores, guys. Out of two for you, Ike, the story. Uh yeah, I give it 10. 10. All right, characters. Ten. Alright, and uh mine's the high rankings too, two of two and everything. Emotion action and visuals. Yeah, two. Yeah, sorry. Yeah, they're saying tens.

SPEAKER_02 2:44:52

It's okay. Actually, with the visuals, I'm gonna be I'm gonna be nice and uh I'll give you 1.5 because like I said, there's times in it where you're like, oh, they don't they didn't spend the money they didn't want to movie. You know what I mean? Like they were putting this together, but it's it I don't where I couldn't tell you right now, so yeah, but I did see it, so okay. If I had to be technical, 1.5. Yeah. Um, emotion and stakes. See, this is where I'm gonna give it a one because there's no real stakes, but there is emotion.

SPEAKER_00 2:45:21

Yes, I agree. So I agree. I I should I'm gonna give I was I wrote two, but there is no stakes. There's but there definitely is a lot of heartfelt emotion, so I give it a one of two. Rewatchability and MCU and this is two, this is every Christmas, it's an easy one to watch, everybody. So I gave it a one. It is definitely rewatchable, so that's where the one comes in. MCU impact, and this is a good thing in my opinion. It's there's no right because you don't it doesn't impact the MCU, and but that's how these shows are supposed to be. Right. So that's that's a great score for it. One out of two for me. All right, uh, final score for you.

SPEAKER_02 2:45:57

So uh this is what this in my opinion is what uh Disney Plus should be. This is uh to me, it's almost the pinnacle of it. Um using characters that we've seen in movies to do a separate story is great. In fact, part of me wishes they did one a Christmas special a long time ago after Age of Ultron with all the Avengers would have been a 44-minute thing of them having a Christmas party would be awesome. Because the best scene in there almost is their whole party there at the end in the beginning. Yeah. I'm going on a branch, guys. I know this this is crazy, but I'm gonna give this, I'm gonna think this is a home run for for the Disney Plus thing and what we expect to get. 44 minutes with the stuff they did in it and the little things they were able to do, still have an emotional punch with the Yondu stuff and and uh Mantis. I'm gonna give it 10. I think it deserves it.

SPEAKER_00 2:46:50

There you go. 10. I wrote down nine out of 10, but it's it's good. It's right there. It is it honestly, that is that's that's a very high rating, at least for me personally. And um I agree with you, everything that you said. Um there might be minor details I would have done a little bit differently, but that's really nitpicking because this is exactly how they were supposed to do them. Yeah, I even love the creative choice of starting it out like a cartoon, it's like a cartoon. Yep. Made it feel like a one of those Christmas specials. I just think it was a really brilliant little piece of thing, you know, they come up with. Yeah. All right. So the that means, guys, the official multiverse score is a 9.5 out of 10 for this guy. I think that sits well. Mm-hmm. All right, do you have a one-sentence final review before we move on?

SPEAKER_02 2:47:34

I was gonna, yeah. Oh, yeah, guys, every make this part of your Christmas tradition. It is it's re-watchable enough to watch once a year, I think. 44 minutes of putting it on even while you're making cookies and hanging out, laugh at some of the fun stuff. I think it sits there. I think it's one of the only few modern Christmas productions they've done over the last few years that actually does fit in that same style and same kind of we just want to feel something nice and warm that the old cartoons used to bring. Because right now everything's so complicated. It's always like something big or you know, it's something weird, or and it's you know, it's not that. This isn't that. It's it's fun, it compliments the MCU, and I just wish they do it more often with other characters, yeah, especially big name ones would be cool to see. So that's all I got for that.

SPEAKER_00 2:48:21

Yeah, no, I completely agree. Honestly, my my last review, my final one sentence review would be that uh you guys should watch this during the holiday time from this great day on Thanksgiving to put it on and Christmas Eve to put it on too, because it's short, it's brisk, it's fun, it's lighthearted, good for the whole family. It's really, really good. And honestly, like you said before, I think that they should do more holiday specials like this. Do a do a Captain America one for Fourth of July type thing, you know? Yes, yes, do you know, get some of those different characters together for some of these things and be like, well, what's it like when they all go home for Easter? You know, things like that. That'd be kind of fun. Yeah, I'd say a Punisher one, but it's just a lot of crying. So maybe crying and killing. That's it.

SPEAKER_02 2:49:05

I guess it would be kind of fun, but I just it wouldn't, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:49:09

All right, guys. Well, please let us know in the comments below what your thoughts are on the Guardians of the Galaxy holiday special. And Ike, what are we moving on to now?

SPEAKER_02 2:49:17

All right, guys, we're going to Thor Ragnarok. Yes. We're gonna go to the end of Asgard and do a nice little retro on that. Wow.

SPEAKER_00 2:49:25

This is this is something, so buckle up.

SPEAKER_02 2:49:37

All right, hello everybody. Welcome to our retrospective of Thor Ragnarog. This has been since we started this thing. This was another one of those movies where I'm like, yeah, I can't wait till Civil War. And oh man, then there's Thor Ragnarok. We had a list of ones that we couldn't wait to get to. And this was one of them for several reasons. Just wanted to make sure it's still up to par of what we saw from the beginning. And I think we're gonna have some twists and turns during this conversation. And I don't know about you, Sam, but like I said uh earlier in the show, uh, this I still do not have scores yet. So I'm gonna be talking myself, or he's gonna be helping me into it. We're just gonna kind of ease each other into what we think is the best score that we both can come up with. Because there might be some things that you're gonna say you don't like, and I'm gonna say, yeah, but you know, or vice versa, because I've found some crazy stuff. I mean, and guys, I don't want to oversell myself. It's nothing too crazy I found, but I definitely have some fun things to talk about when it comes out of this movie. Things that you and I, even over the years we've talked about these, we haven't talked about yet. So I think that's what's gonna make it kind of fun for us is there's some new conversations that's gonna happen here today.

SPEAKER_00 2:50:40

So I you know, I am I am been so excited and nervous about this episode in particular, this retrospective. It's similar to you. I do have scores I initially wrote down, but I am subject to change with them because there are things I feel about this movie that I'm like, dare I put that? Dare I not? And I'm like, you know what? I'm just gonna let it be as it's happening, and it'll be a final opinion at that point when it's done, like final, final answer. So I I am very excited to dive into Thor Ragnarok. This is it's highly regarded in the fandom, and we're about to go through the history of this guy, and man, you're in for a treat. We are in for a treat just talking about it. All right, so uh did you want to start us off then for this? Or do you want me to read the history and then you go into the synopsis and then we start breaking it down? Yeah, let's do it that way. You go ahead and history on the synopsis. All right, guys, here we go. Thor Ragnarok, released on November 3rd, 2017. The main casts include Chris Hemsworth, Tom Hiddleston, Mark Ruffalo, Kate Blanchett. Just checking to make sure my microphone's still good, y'all. Uh, Carl Urban, Tessa Thompson, Sir Anthony Hopkins, and Jeff Goblum. History behind the film. By the time Marvel Studios began developing Thor Ragnarok, the studio recognized that the Thor franchise needed a dramatic creative overhaul. Although the first two Thor films have been commercially successful, they were generally viewed as some of the MCU's less distinctive entities, particularly Thor the Dark World. Meanwhile, the MCU was entering phase three, following the success of Captain America's Civil War, Doctor Strange, and Guardians of the Galaxy. With Marvel becoming more confident in taking creative risks, seeking a fresh direction, Marvel hired New Zealand filmmaker Taika Watiti, who had earned acclaim for off-beat comedies like What We Do in the Shadows and Hunt for Wilder People. Watiti pitched Thor as a funnier, more colorful, and more adventurous character, believing audiences had not yet seen Chris Hemsworth fully utilize his natural comedic talents. Marvel embraced this new vision, allowing Watiti to reinvent the tone of the franchise by drawing inspiration from 1980s science fiction films, Jack Kirby's bold comic artwork, and classic cosmic Marvel stories. Much of the dialogue was improvised with Watiti encouraging the cast to experiment during filming, resulting in many of the movie's funniest moments, including Korg's memorable lines, which Waltiti performed himself through motion capturing. Filming began in Australia during 2016 with large-scale production at Village Roadshow Studios on the Gold Coast. At the time, Chris Hemsworth had become one of Marvel's biggest stars, but had publicly admitted he felt Thor character had become somewhat repetitive after the two solo films and multiple Avengers appearances. The creative reset reinvigorated both Hemsworth and the franchise. Tom Hiddleston returned as Loki after becoming one of Marvel's most beloved characters, while Mark Ruffalo joined as Bruce Banner slash the Hulk in his largest role since Avengers Age of Ultron. Rather than producing another standalone Hawk movie, which Marvel Studios was unable to do thanks to Universal Pictures retaining the distribution rights to the solo Hulk films, Marvel creatively incorporated elements of the famous Planet Hulk comic storyline into Thor Ragnarok. The filmmakers realized they could adapt many of Planet Hulk's most popular ideas, including Sakar, the Grand Master, and the Gladiator Arena, within the Thor movie while avoiding any legal complications to a standalone Hulk film. This decision also gave Bruce Banner meaningful character development after his disappearance at the end of Age of Ultron and added another fan favorite Avenger to Thor's story. The film's villains were also selected to support the franchise's reinventation. Reinvent reinvention. Sorry. Kate Blanchette joined at the MCU as Hella, the goddess of death, becoming Marvel's first major female villain. Hella has chosen Hella was chosen because Marvel wanted a threat powerful enough to destroy Thor's identity, literally shattering or shattering Mjornir and forcing him to discover that his strength came from within rather than from his hammer. Hella's conquest of Asgard also allowed Marvel to tell a story about confronting hidden history and the darker legacy of Odin's empire. Meanwhile, Jeff Golblem was cast as the eccentric Grandmaster, whose improvisation performance fit perfectly with Vatiti's comedic style and provide a colorful contrast to Hella's darker storyline. The film also introduced Tessa Thompson as Alkyry, bringing another beloved comic character into the MCU while helping expand as Guardian mythology. Fun behind-the-scenes facts include while TD encouraging extensive improvision from nearly every actor, Chris Hemsworth cutting his iconic long hair to symbolize Thor's personal transformation, and the visual effects team drawing heavy, uh heavily from Jack Kirby's vibrant comic artwork to create Sakar's neon-inspired aesthetic. Even the famous He's a Friend from Work line during Thor's Gladiator battle and with Hulk reportedly originated from a child visiting the set during a charity program. Which also, I will say, to that is in the comics to a degree, but the rephrasing came from that really cool kid that said that. So when Thor Ragnarok was released in 2017, it revitalized both the Thor character and the franchise, and critics praised its humor, visuals, performances, and willingness to reinvent itself, earning approximately 93% on Rotten Tomatoes from critics and 87% from audiences. Financially, the film became Thor's biggest solo success to that point, grossing approximately $859 million worldwide against a production estimate budget of $180 million. More importantly, Ragnarok fundamentally changed the audience's perception of Thor, transforming him from a comparatively serious fantasy hero into one of the MCU's funniest, most charismatic, and emotionally compelling characters. The destruction of Asgard, Hulk's Return, Loki's continued redemption arc, and the introduction of Valkyrie all positioned the franchise for the dramatic events of Avengers Infinity War, while Waltidi's bold reinvention demonstrated Marvel Studios' growing willingness to radically evolve its characters instead of repeating familiar formulas. Yeah, what a complicated production though, still, right?

SPEAKER_02 2:58:04

Like you know, in its own way.

SPEAKER_00 2:58:05

Yes, in its own way. How do we reinvent this character, keep him relevant, and keep him gain him a larger audience? And we're about to discuss how that paid off now, guys. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 2:58:16

So what's the official synopsis like? So, guys, imprisoned on the other side of the universe, the mighty Thor finds himself in a deadly gladiatorial contest that pits him against the Hulk, his former ally and fellow Avenger. Thor's quest for survival leads him in a race against time to prevent the all-powerful Hella from destroying his home world and the Asgard civilization.

SPEAKER_04 2:58:37

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 2:58:38

So Alright. Okay. Alright, guys, act one. Thor returns to Asgard after many years and discovers. Oh wait, actually, there's one thing right before this. I completely jumped past the surprise opening. Okay. So, act one. I'll restart, guys. Um Thor finds himself captured in what appears to be a volcano lair owned by Surter. Thor defeats Surter and successfully makes his way back to Asgard after years and to discover that his brother Loki has been um posing as Odin. With the help of Doctor Strange, Thor and Loki find Odin, who remained in self-exile in Norway, but it was too late to save him from death. With Odin's death, the goddess of death herself, Hella, is unleashed, revealing herself as Thor's long-lost sister and the original heir to Asgard's throne. Hella quickly overpowers Thor and Loki and destroys Mjornir, forcing them to flee via the Bifrost. Hella succeeds in arriving in Asgard while Loki and Thor are thrown across space and crash land on a junk planet called Sakhar. Alright. Sorry for that mix-up in the beginning. I just dived right into Thor getting to Asgard. I'm like, wait a minute. There's a whole scene that I'm sure when we talk about what worked, I'll let you start it off with. So all right.

SPEAKER_02 3:00:19

So what worked, huh? So yes, I think it for both of us, it was a surprise when we got to the theater and it opens up with Thor and Surter like having their conversation. And we're just like, what is going on? It isn't it's seen because trailers make you feel like this, okay. So the big bats, Hella and Sterter, what's going on? We're thinking Surter might be in team with Hella or whatever. What did we we didn't know shit? So it was like it was great. We watched it and it was, I think it's brilliant. I I think this is funny. I like that this opens up with Thor talking to us. Like, yeah, you're probably wondering what I'm doing here, and blah, blah, blah. Immediately you realize, okay, we're getting a different kind of movie right here. This is we already know this is gonna be different.

SPEAKER_04 3:01:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:01:04

And we got to give it to Clancy Brown, who does the voice asserter, who's also Shaw Shank as a police officer. I think he does a great job in this as that voice. He adds some nuance to it that's good. And I this whole scene is great. And I laugh a lot with the chain thing because he keeps going in a circle, because that's what happens when you do that stuff. Um, that and whoever thought we needed hammer vision, like when he throws that hammer and you follow the hammer as it beats all these things up, I'm like, that is so cool. Yep. That is so cool, and I like that the cinematography there is great. I like that he drops it in that demon dragon's mouth and it just pulls him to the ground. Yep. Using the hammer in that way, I've always always been my favorite stuff. Um, that worked a lot. I think that worked a lot. Uh, I don't know. Do we want to just talk about this scene for a second or do I just keep going until because I got a few more things until we get to we can I can give you all of mine and then we I'll let you go.

SPEAKER_00 3:01:58

Uh it's uh it's up to you. If we want to just talk about that scene, then as we go, we just talk about each part because there's there is a lot in this film.

SPEAKER_02 3:02:05

There's a lot, we're not gonna do every scene, but this beginning though, I think is worth it's a lot worth talking about in this very beginning, at least for sure. Yeah. Because later on is stuff that's happening that we can tell, we can kind of gloss over because it's okay. But this scene is this is where we realize, oh, this there's a swing. Like this, this is you know, we had to strap up. We had to set my drink down, put an extra seatbelt on. There's a lot of things going on that we weren't ready for, you know.

SPEAKER_00 3:02:27

And yeah, so yeah, how do you feel about this opening? Well, that hit you. So it it when I from my retrospective, it reminded me exactly when we went into the theater and we saw this. We were like, whoa, we're starting off with Surter. It that blew my mind. And obviously, for if you're just following the MCU up until this point, you you get read from the very beginning the the heavier comedic tone of Thor right on the top. But uh we're gonna get into uh how that kind of complements him for this film in particular.

SPEAKER_02 3:02:59

Yeah, I have a take on that.

SPEAKER_00 3:03:00

We'll talk about it. Well, yeah, we'll talk about that later. But it it just the him being captured and then just knowing he could get out at any moment, anyways, and do what he did with Surter and all the fire demons there and all that stuff, and then that dragon thing. Like, this is one of the best openings Marvel has ever done. I agree. This is one of the biggest swings I think they ever did for such a predominant character like Surter. And I I was I was blown away. I that scene I could watch by itself over and over again. It is so the the um Mew Mew Vision, like Mew Mew Vision. Who knew that we needed that, like you said? That is so cool, and he's already immensely powerful. We already know of Thor, anyways, with the lightning shattering and all that stuff, and he's taking on these demons, and then how he how he like puts Sirter to the ground and extinguishes his flame. That is so cool. Then he just straps it on the back of his uh uh well on his back and he flying away, uh flying away from that dragon. That is so cool. And I love the comedic tone of him saying, Oh, that's your helmet? I thought that was your face, that's your eyebrows because it does look that way, but it's so cool. So, yeah, uh that's all I'm gonna say about that. That is one heck of an opening to start this movie off. You start off with basically Ragnarok basically about to happen, and then it's temporarily paused. It's so cool. Anyways, so go on to keep going.

SPEAKER_02 3:04:34

So then I like this when we do get to Asgard and this whole thing with the play. Like, I I it's so meta, it's wild to me. It's like a real family. It's it's real crazy. A real family doing this thing, like having Chris's brother come in like that to play Thor himself. It is like a big meta speak on the fact that they're all making a movie, but they're making a fake play in the movie that's fake of what really happened. You know, it's kind of like a fake family inside a second fake family that the first fake family is trying to imitate. You know, it's like just like it's like, what is going on? And it actually kind of speaks to like an overall purpose of this film as you get through this movie. It's a lot about family in that sense. Um, even though it's the opposite of what you'd think, because it's not so much family coming together as it is this is what it's like being torn apart, you know. And I think that that what that's what makes it interesting, you know. And I I do like that how he gets Loki to come out with the hammer, he holds his neck there, that's kind of cool. Yeah, you have to scare him out. I guess one thing you could say is wrong with this, but for me, I guess it's no big deal. And I'm and I'm I'm zero gonna count this against it, is everyone just kind of was like, Oh, Loki, that's just what he does, as he's been pretending to be owing this one. No one seems to be real pissed about it. Yeah, I kind of that's a little weird, but at the same time, I don't care. You know, it's all it that's not something that bothers me at all. And I'm not gonna let it deter my score. I'm just decided that I had to make that decision because this might be the only negative thing you hear me say for a while. And uh it's it's okay. You know, and uh just to move on past that a little bit, this is how you need to use Doctor Strange for now on. We do not need any more boring ass Doctor Strange movies. We got one, it's boring. It was alright. We'll stick with it. You introduced him, you gave us some magic that we gotta think about because you don't know how to tell us what's gonna really go on. We got into time zone, which is the best part of the movie. After that, you know, I just think Doctor Strange needs to just show up just because this is awesome Doctor Strange stuff. Yeah, perfect, just enough. All the tricks are funny, these are great moments that are funny, and I like the Loki's falling the whole time for 30 minutes. There's so much to that I think is really cool. I like a lot. Um, but yeah, this is great example of this, just do this with him for now on. But I don't need a Doctor Strange movie, he just needs to show up and he can be in it. You know, in fact, I hope they still make him bad and one hopefully they can talk about. But as far as I'm concerned, this is at its best. And then, like just to tie into that real fast, we'll get right to the scene too. I'll let you go, uh you go back and talk about some of this. But I this whole thing where Odin's on Norway and they go to see him, you know. Um actually I'm gonna wait a second. I do this something specific, I want to talk about that, and I don't want to go into that rant without you talking about those things too. So how'd you feel about this build up to Odin, basically? Up to Odin.

SPEAKER_00 3:07:36

So I it it took me by surprise, but it was a pleasant surprise of uh, you know, when Thor lands in Asgard, you immediately know because you pick up right from the end of the dark world and be like, oh, Loki's there. What's it gonna look like? And it really doesn't look that much different, except that Odin is in like this like this bathrobe type thing, eating grapes with these women around him, and everyone is watching this play, and he's commenting like it's very funny, very cool, but it's it's a statue of Lil' the stat yeah, that's that's the tipping point where I part of me was like, Oh boy, I wonder what's what's going on. Is he enslaved Asgard too? He didn't, he's just like, I'm in charge now. It's almost like what the heck did you do? You just didn't like your dad, anyways. Um yeah, it was that that the play was a nice touch, yeah. The play worked well in this movie, and I love that it's a play about Loki's death and exaggerating how important he is to them, and having the people be like, oh, be like, oh my gosh. It's comedically a hit, but I agree with you that Thor immediately knew oh, this is Loki's tricks, and he's he's pissed, but he's not. I'm just gonna start pummeling you pissed. He's he wants Loki to unveil his own disguise, and that with the hammer and the head thing. Wow, that's bold, that is cool, and I yeah, that's smart. I love that they did it. I agree with you. If I was there and I found out that Odin was Loki this whole time, I would have been like, I would have yelled out, what the hell, man?

SPEAKER_03 3:09:22

And just someone in the back be like, what? But nothing, but okay, whatever. They're all just okay.

SPEAKER_02 3:09:29

They're all just like Oh you low-key.

SPEAKER_00 3:09:32

Yeah, oh you low-key. Well, it does show how dysfunctional this first family of Asgard is. Awful. Just saying, they're probably like, This is this is not new. We're like, okay, whatever. Now, now Thor's gonna lay down the hammer, literally. But anyways, that was that was cool. Uh, I did I did like that part, and I liked that low Thor's like, take me to our father, and they go and it's a destroyed homeless shelter, or no home, a destroyed home. He's like, I loved him right here. And he's like, right here in this rubble, or right here on the street. This also brings to a fun behind the scenes thing of this that they re-filmed Odin's uh entry into this. Well, you saw in the trailers they had filmed, they did the visual effects, everything. Then they decided for some reason either that didn't work or they wanted to tell it differently, so they redid it with this the Norway scene. It was cool. And and I I don't know, I haven't seen that full scene. I know it's out there, but I think it's on like some special feature of like a thousand dollar version of the MCU or something like that, honestly. But um, I am curious how that would have changed the dynamic of this, but I like that they did it this way.

SPEAKER_01 3:10:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:10:47

Yeah, uh between those two scenes. I like they did it this way.

SPEAKER_02 3:10:50

I think I think they realized having it in the city, like, because they could have easily gone into the nursing home, talked to Sor, and talked to Odin, and it all happened there. Yeah, but I think the being in Norway added that emotional and Viking feeling to this that it this yeah, and even the music on the Norway scene. Yeah, it was really it was very Viking. I want more serious here, even though it's still got its moments that I think the city part of it made it feel very out of touch. Yeah, something to change it for the yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:11:19

Before we dive into that too much, because I just started realizing I'm talking about that, and I wanted to comment on the Doctor Strange thing too. I completely agree with you. This is a great example of this is Doctor Strange when he's at his best as in other people's movies. This is the first part of it. From his entrance of how he's flying down and he's wearing the gloves, I don't see him really wear that much anymore. Like, that is classic Doctor Strange gloves. Like give him the gloves, right? But whatever. Um, all the scenes of him teleporting to different parts of the library, and Thor's like this the whole time of his drink, like it goes and spills all over the place. That's hilarious. I love the Thor's beer fills up all the time, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:11:57

And he's looking at it like when he calls the hammer, he's like busting through everything. He's like, sorry about that. This is so funny.

SPEAKER_00 3:12:06

When Thor's like, you couldn't have told me about this, and um, then Thor uh was it Thor says you could have sent an email text message, and then Dr. Strange says, You have all those stuff? He's like, No, why would I have that? It's funny, it's really cool. So, anyways, and that Thor would be one character that I don't think Doctor Strange could have easily just communicated with because he's traveling all the nine realms, he's doing all these different things, and yeah, he isn't a tech savvy guy, he's more of a brute force type guy. So um, I think that that is very complimentary to Doctor Strange and to Thor, that whole scene. So, and I love the Loki is falling, and he says, Oh, yeah, take your brother, and then Loki says, I've been falling for 30 minutes that's hilarious, and then he gets the knives out, like, oh, I'm gonna show you something, and be like, All right, bye-bye. Perfect, all perfect. All right, now let's get to Odin, his death.

SPEAKER_02 3:13:02

Yeah, um I I I still quite understand why he's dying, other than I want to. That's it's fine. Um, I think it makes sense though. I you know, I like all this, I think it's great. You know, I'm and it's a great moment when he's talking to them and he kind of tells you you're both my sons, and Loki's kind of like, you know, oh boy, and but it's like it gets touching, and it's the start of we start to see that Loki starts to come into this thing of oh man, this is heavy. It's gonna be something he's gonna have to think about too. Um, and I like that now we know here comes Hella, right? And he tells him to your sister, and this is the whole thing. I put her down there, and the only way she ever gets out is if I'm gone. And the only thing I want to touch on here is man, Odin is a bad dad. Like, I like him in the first two movies a lot, but then you sit back and you look and he's quite an asshole. You know, like he expects so much more out of Thor than he ever teaches him, really. And he steals Loki from people that he murdered, really, you know what I mean, and then raises him and kind of and promises him he's not gonna get more than you are now. And then his other the other sibling, he turned into a war machine that kills everything, and then I'm gonna put you somewhere forever until I'm dead. Yeah. And then on top of it, he's gonna for some reason he agrees to his death thing. So when I do die, my other kids are gonna have to deal with you.

SPEAKER_04 3:14:29

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 3:14:30

It's like, what do you what did you do to these people, man? Like at some point, someone's gonna sit back and be like, oh, and you're kind of dick. Like, you cut up dick, man. Like, that's not a good thing to do. Like, why didn't he just destroy her at the time? You know, if it's if she's that bad, he's that scared of her. He left her, he basically is like, yeah, I all those times I yell at you for doing something you shouldn't have done, and you're not thinking and using your head and thinking about the future, what's best for Asgard. I kind of put this hell demon away that's your sister that's ready to destroy everything and most powerful thing you're gonna do. So good luck. Bye. And it's like, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:15:05

I think one of the things that this film definitely touches upon is you always hear Hella's point of view of uh my ambitions outgrew his and all this different stuff, and this is our real history and all that. You never have gotten the counter-argument from because Odin's dead. You never got the counter-argument of why I had the change of heart, why I put you away, why all this stuff. You start realizing some of it. Oh, you really are that bad, and he could not control you other than using all of his power to put you away. So you you come to some conclusions in that sense, but for the most part, you are only left knowing exactly from Hello's point of view of what happened to her and what Asgard's history is.

SPEAKER_02 3:15:46

Yes, and I think they did that on purpose, and I think the purpose of that is it's it's true. I think and it's just obvious, it's very obvious that Odin wanted to conquer the nine realms to make them better. I think he's not lying about that. I just think he couldn't do it unless he created something that could get him there. And just unfortunately, when you did, it just was something that, oh shit, how do you put that back in the box, you know?

SPEAKER_03 3:16:07

Um, which it yeah, you're what it feels like, right?

SPEAKER_00 3:16:10

If he liked he uses his firstborn child to and create yes, and her ability to generate weapons as turning into then a literal weapon who is very powerful, and then he decides, okay, I'm done pillaging and doing all the stuff the Vikings do, and now I want to be a benevolent king, as she says her exact words in the movie. And he's like, Let's let's forget about you, and I'm gonna say now my new firstborn is Thor. What the heck, man? Yeah. What? But it does it's it's I will say it's very comic accurate to Odin, and it compliments what he's like in Thor the Dark World.

SPEAKER_02 3:16:53

Yeah, I agree. And you know what? Yeah, how it made how I sounded about it, guys. You think it'd be OC's finding problems with the movie? It doesn't make sense. No, it's not a problem. It's part of the story. I actually am like this is kind of cool. Yep, because it complicates these situations, and I think that's what makes it work the best. And now Hella is such a believable character because of this, actually. Yeah, she's not just a mustache, she's just pure evil. Yeah, and we don't have to. There's no that's okay, cool. That's all she wants. We don't need any other kind of, you know, she's meh. We saw Loki fell about a place, she's like, yeah, buddy. Yeah, he locked me away, you know, for a long time. And I I it's so when she grabs the hammer and crutches it. We're now we're showing she's super powerful. Oh no, that's not good. It also shows, and I'm gonna skip ahead just for a second because of this hammer grabbing thing. Because partly when I was watching the movie for the first time, I'm like, wait a minute, she can do stuff with the hammer. I'm like, what happened to this whole thing? And then later it shows that she actually wielded the hammer in the images that she shows when she breaks the ceilings. It's sure she's got the hammer.

SPEAKER_00 3:17:58

Mm-hmm. Oh, you know what? I do. Didn't catch that Easter egg. Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_02 3:18:02

Several of them had with her with the hammer. And then I'm sitting there thinking to myself, this isn't a fault of the movie, because I have at this point in time in the MCU accepted the fact that they don't even know. But this has reinforced my complaint from the very beginning about the hammer. Is what the hell does it mean to be worthy of that hammer? Because how is she worthy of the hammer? You're telling me that this hammer was used as a weapon to murder people for a long time in the hands of someone that was doing something that awful, and then here we are, we go to this first movie and Thor can't lift his hammer because he needs to learn to be humble or whatever the reason he Hella? I can chalk it up to the power of her, but that's usually never what it means with.

SPEAKER_00 3:18:47

I thought it was the pure intentions of someone.

SPEAKER_02 3:18:50

Like if you're good or bad.

SPEAKER_03 3:18:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:18:52

If you're purely good, never said it the other way. We've never even seen Thanos hold the hammer. I feel he's knocked it away. Yeah. He's never picked the hammer up. And they've never told us that nobody can pick up Stormbreaker. Stormbreaker's different. Yeah, because it's a made weapon, it's different.

SPEAKER_04 3:19:19

Yeah. Hmm.

SPEAKER_02 3:19:22

The hammer, literally, this whole idea of holding that hammer, I always thought they held it up to this idea that the pure intent of being good and like the true meaning of being a hero or being what doing what you're supposed to do, even if it's a struggle, and that it shows that Thor's incorruptible, that no matter what we're gonna get, Thor's never gonna be someone that does anything pure out of any bad intent. And it shows the pure heart of him, which is why Steve is able to lift the hammer. To me, that makes sense. That's why nobody else could, they're all good guys, even the Avengers can't lift it, and they're all good guys, but there's something a little dark about each one of them that has a thing going on that the hammer recognizes. And it's almost like, look, you can use the hammer, but uh, if I let you use me, you might use it for bad things. It's it's kind of what I feel about it, you know what I mean? At least from what they make it because if that's the case, why couldn't Ultron pick it up? But I guess technically he can because Ultron did, because Vision picked it up, although he doesn't have a heart. So you see what I mean? Like they this whole being worthy of the hammer thing, I have surrendered to the idea it means zero, nothing, anything. It really does, which sucks for the whole MCU because Cap getting the hammer is one of the coolest things we ever saw. And it's only because we know that it's only because you're that good of a guy and that good of a hero and that uncorruptible.

SPEAKER_00 3:20:48

Yeah. I never liked the vision picked up the hammer.

SPEAKER_02 3:20:50

We talked about that when we did that.

SPEAKER_00 3:20:51

We that was my one of my biggest.

unknown 3:20:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:20:55

So now when we see Hella with it, now it makes it even more convoluted. Like, so I th you're probably right. Her intent is so pure, good or bad, that there's no compromise to it. But it just means why couldn't some of these other bad guys use it then if they wanted to? You know, or maybe they didn't know they could, maybe they're not. They're not bad enough. I don't know. You know, or at the same time, because I would I would argue that Thanos' intent was just as deep. You know, he was committed to what he was doing just as much as she was. You know, to the point where he realized he needed to up it and not just get rid of half and get rid of all. He was that content. Good or bad, right? So I don't think it has anything to do with being good or bad. I just don't think they know. I just think they thought it would be cool. And they needed a reason why she could hold it and destroy it. And frankly, that bugs me a little. But I'm not gonna take it away from the movie because like I said, I don't want that to be the reason this doesn't get what it deserves, what they did with it. Yeah. And why I say that is because if this was the only movie to do this and contradict it, I'd give it a hard time. But they've already screwed the hammer up before now.

SPEAKER_04 3:22:08

Yeah, multiple times.

SPEAKER_02 3:22:09

So at this point, honestly, the argument has already been done, and it's already been like clearly it means nothing. So why am I upset about it? I'm just gonna, as we go through the MCU, I'm just gonna make it a point to point it out to you guys every time they screw it up or every time it makes no sense. And this might I don't think there's many more times after this, to be honest, but this made me even more so realize, oh, you know, being worthy of the hammer just is it's nonsense. It's there's nonsense here.

SPEAKER_04 3:22:38

You know, and it's kind of so because tech technically okay.

SPEAKER_00 3:22:45

Because I'd argue yeah, I forgot that there's the imagery of her holding that hammer. If that wasn't there, I could just chalk it up to she just had the power, because of her power of weapons, to stop the hammer and shatter it. Because at that moment she didn't decide to stop it, grab it, and swing it at him. It was it was just destroy it. Um I couldn't agree more. Cool demonstration of her power, too, and the for the first moment of meeting her. But it is it's that imagery afterwards that maybe and as we're doing this and that scene pops up behind us and everything, guys, we'll we'll be like, Oh, yeah, you know, that is the hammer.

SPEAKER_02 3:23:25

Yeah, but yeah, because even they even do well explaining why Jane has it, because Thor asks it to, you know. And it's kind of like in a way, it's gonna do. I mean, the you start to realize what Ty does with it that is, I think it's more fun than most people say, is it is kind of its own entity, too, as well. Yeah. Which I think is really I think it's a nice little touch, which makes me think even more so that it makes no sense it would allow her to do the atrocities she did. Other than I guess, I guess the only big argument you could put to it is that was their way then. So maybe once Odin changed everything and got rid of her, the hammer had to change.

SPEAKER_04 3:24:05

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 3:24:06

So I guess if anything, that could explain it, and I'm just pooping out stuff. But that's the thing, they don't say that. Because for us that think the hand the hammer is a big deal, that'd be a big deal.

SPEAKER_00 3:24:19

That goes back to my point before is we only see all this from Hella's point of view, that whether we like Odin or not, we don't ever get that chance of hearing a defense. Yeah, no one there saying, Oh, I was there when Odin was doing these things, and he's not how Hella described him or anything like that. You know? Uh there there is no rebuttal. So you're just left with this is what it is. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:24:41

So I'm gonna skip over it though. I'm gonna pretend it's not a big deal because frankly, they already screwed it up. Vision picked it up, made me go, oh, what the hell does this mean? And that that's all in, and I know you guys, some people might think that's inconsequential. Think about it. How awesome is it when Kat picks up that hammer? Think about why it's awesome. It's because only the worthy can. So if only Thor picks it up and then only Kat picks it up, it's like, oh my God, what's that mean, right? So there is consequentialness to this, you know? But well, you know, I will back off on it until the next time I see a hammer discovered. So it just it it what it does is it hurts the first movie, is what it is what it does. Though unfortunately, is it it makes that whole, he's not worthy pick it up thing. What's this mean, right? It and that's what bothers me about it. And if you're gonna argue that, we'll see Odin did that thing where he said whoever's worthy can hold the hammer, blah, blah, blah, and he throws it down at there. It's like, yeah, but then who's who's this say Odin should say that? He's treating his kids like dog shit. Odin shouldn't even be worthy holding a damn thing at this point. But that's beside the point. You know, maybe it's not so much who should be able to have the hammer, is explain to us what being worthy actually means. Yeah, that's what we need. Because you could be right. Worthy could mean pure of intent.

SPEAKER_04 3:25:56

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 3:25:57

Which means Hella could do it then.

SPEAKER_00 3:26:00

Because she is just pure bad. But nothing. In doing that, though, it does contradict why Vision held it, because he was he he even said in his one of his first ever words he ever had was, Oh, I'm I'm not against Ultron, but I'm also not for him, too. And I'm like, Where's your intent there then?

SPEAKER_04 3:26:18

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 3:26:18

You're either like, no, this guy sucks. I'm sad I have his brain waves in me, or no, I completely agree with him. So those two reasons would have been it's not because he was born yesterday, as the joke they made in there. Be like, no, vision was not worthy. Yeah, they just from my understanding. They needed a wow factor. Yeah, they needed something for the audience to be like, oh, I never thought that was possible. And it just hurts the it hurts the hammer, yeah. It hurts the hammer. Right. Yeah. All right. So that's yeah, but I don't want to, I don't want to, I don't want that to be another reason. Well, I agree. That that is not if there are problems with this movie, the hammer debacle has been settled long before this movie. They don't know what to do with it. So at this point, you just brush over it because it just is what it is.

SPEAKER_02 3:27:09

But I like I said, I just like pointing it out because it it does, it still does so hurt that first movie.

SPEAKER_04 3:27:14

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 3:27:15

That first form. It makes you wonder wait a minute, the whole point of that movie is he can't use it because he's not worthy.

SPEAKER_04 3:27:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:27:21

That's the whole story arc of that movie. And now we're kind of like, bullets mean to be worthy. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:27:26

Yeah. All right. So uh would you include that as just what didn't work for you type thing is the the hammer.

SPEAKER_02 3:27:32

I did put it under that because it's the thing I'm gonna gripe about.

SPEAKER_00 3:27:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:27:36

Um, I just this is where I struggle with the overall number or the score of this entire movie because I don't want that to be the reason. I don't give it what it deserves. Seeing that, and that's why it's like I'm saying now, like you just said too, uh, because it is something that's already been a problem and that we're just excusing it anyway because they don't know what to do with the hammer. Technically, they didn't do anything wrong. Exactly. They weren't told the hammer means this and that they did that. Well, they weren't, they just aren't told about anything, just do whatever you want with it, it just doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_00 3:28:07

They weren't told what you've been saying all along is hey, there's some inconsistencies with a hammer. Because I feel like if Taika Watizi knew that there is that this growing concern of fans that said that, it'd be just like what the James Gunn would do or the Rooster Brothers would do. He would have added something in to be like, oh, this is what it means to be worthy of this hammer.

SPEAKER_02 3:28:24

And to be honest with you, the one thing that does, and to counterattack my own argument, just to be clear, I want to do that to myself because I did think of it, is at the time she had the hammer, that was their intent to be the way they were. So the hammer could have been made, put in her hand for those reasons. And the switch over from being that we're Vikings taking over nine realms to we're being good and treating everybody well could be when the hammer means something different now. So that is where I excuse it because there is a way out of this in this movie particularly. Not so much the other movies, but in this one. So it's not a problem, but it does raise that wow, hell, I had the hammer, that's wild, you know, and because it makes you think, what's it mean to be worthy? And maybe I guess back then she was doing what he said kill everybody, do the thing. That's it, this is Asgard's wish. That's an Asgardian weapon. Technically, I guess she would have been worthy of it then.

SPEAKER_04 3:29:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:29:18

Because she's great at it. Yep. So yeah, so I mean, I it's in the middle. It's like it doesn't work because it bugs me because I like the hammer thing so much. But it's technically in this movie, it still works. That's okay.

SPEAKER_00 3:29:30

No, I'm for what didn't work for me, I'm gonna piggyback off of what you said about that for the inconsistencies of the hammer. There, the the thing that I would say that didn't work for me, I'm not gonna touch upon too much right now because it is something I want to say when we get to like our final reviews of the whole movie at large. But a lot of what and I can't say it didn't work for me, it just felt how do I say this properly, guys? Because I don't want to say it and you'd be like, what are you talking about? Be like, you'll you'll hear it when I say it.

SPEAKER_02 3:30:00

Yeah, I'm gonna get laughed at, but yeah, well it's okay because it's maybe a need to be.

SPEAKER_00 3:30:05

I think this do I say it now? What what actually I will say because I feel like it's the only parts I would have an issue with this movie, so you're gonna know what my act two and act three feels are basically already, is in the first act. I feel, for me as a personal taste, it was structured wrong. Now, I and this is also the the very last thing of our questionnaire is picture version of it, and this is basically that in that. So I'm just gonna say it right off the bat. I would not have done some of these scenes the way they did. That doesn't mean they're bad. I actually would say they're great scenes for what they did. They are great scenes, so that doesn't take away my score from the movie at all. But it's the only thing that I would say, I would have done this part different, I would have done that part different, I would have done this different, but it still would have had going into act two and act three the same results. So it doesn't change the whole movie. I had this feeling after I watched the Saur 3 for the first time back in 2017, and I wondered if I would feel the same way now because in the retrospective review, sometimes you forgive things. Look at my views of Ultron. I completely changed them a little bit. And part of me is like, now why'd you do that, Sam? But I just maybe I just surrendered to the fact of this is how they were gonna do them, and there you go.

SPEAKER_02 3:31:25

Well, we couldn't deny what we're watching. Exactly. And that's just it, yeah. Well, that's how it makes it feel, and that's you gotta be more with it.

SPEAKER_00 3:31:31

So for this movie, I still would have done the first act different. I would have done you're gonna get a scene in act two of Valkyrie remembering going against Hella and all of the other Valkyrie die, and then she somehow escapes. That would have been part of the first act for me. Not that Valkyrie character in particular, Tessa Thompson's Valkyrie, but I would have had it where he returns to Asgard with Surtrus' head or crown, and that's when um they they would go from there. Yeah, and include the Norway scene or include, you know, where he was. I don't have a problem with it being in Norway. I actually think it I like that it's complimentary to Viking history and mythology and everything. So I would have done that, but I would have done instead of him floating away in dust right there, I would have had Thor say, We need to get you back, thinking he needs the Odin sleep, like you saw in the first Thor movie, because he's been gone so long, he doesn't have the strength. And Odin is saying, I know I'm dying. This is these are some of the things I need to tell you guys that I thought I would have had more time to tell you. And that's when he reveals, there's Hella. I had the whole past. He then gives a moment to explain how Asgard really became as powerful as it is, and we're just hearing it, and then Hella doing the thing where she's about to do right now on our screen right now, uh uh gives you the picture visualization of it, where it validates what Odin is saying, and Odin admitting I was a bad guy and I made horrible decisions in life. I tried to make up for it, but the one thing I could not um get, I I could not remedy was your sister.

SPEAKER_04 3:33:17

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 3:33:18

And being a benevolent king, I didn't want to just kill my firstborn. So I had decided to imprison her with all the strength of both your mother's magic and my magic. And now with your mother gone and I am about to meet her now, because she's calling out to me, you are now gonna meet your sister in a way I did not want you to. I would have done it a little bit more of an emotional depth for that, where you and in the midst of all that, then he does die and he dies like a normal Viking as yep, there she is holding that hammer. You're right. I come can't believe I missed that. But, anyways, um sorry, little tangent there. But I that's I would have done it like that, where he dies on Asgard, and then Hella arrives either in Asgard or no, no, no. I wouldn't have Hella arrives in Asgard. I would have had it where they find out there's like an alarm going off of some kind because she is now broken free because he's died, and they send the Valkyrie there to keep her at bay, and she slaughters them all right there. That would have been the the biggest opening scene for me is she she kills them all, and then she goes up in the byfrost. Maybe they were trying to save a Valkyrie or something, whatever. She gets caught into it, and she gets to Asgard that way, and Thor and Loki go to get her first thing before the army gets there, and she throws them away. Then I would have continued on with how we saw it, with her talking, giving her speech in front of Asgard, all that stuff. That's the only major change I would have done in this movie that would have given one epic Asgard battle scene start start off with her power, maybe still show her crack the hammer, because I think that's a big power for Thor's character development, but it's just to reaffirm and re-establish how powerful and dangerous this person is.

SPEAKER_02 3:35:08

So, folks, this is the first time on our podcast that Sammy and I are gonna completely disagree. Oh boy. I'm not saying what you said wouldn't be good. Yeah, I think I think you have great stuff there. I think you'd undermine the entire movie, though. How so? So a lot of it's gotta do with like we'll talk about all these other things too as we go through this. But I think that this is two different movies. Okay. This movie, and this is what this is what's best about this movie, is it's two different movies. I think you got a cookie cutter movie in the Hella storyline, and I think you got an unexpected, unpredictable, wild ride in the Sakar stuff when it comes down to that little group being put together. And the overall arc of the stories of each character about this overcoming, becoming somebody who they are, overcoming something they've now they're missing, now they're lost, they're literally garbage on a garbage planet, which is how Hulk feels, how Valkyrie feels. I think if we know from the start that she's that and is carrying that weight, it does she becomes a mute character later as we go because we need to see her step up and become a Valkyrie again. And I think it works when we don't have that knowledge until we actually have that knowledge. That, and I don't think you got enough good material in this movie for the hella storyline to not do the stuff, not reveal those things that you would put in the beginning and actually let it be stuff that happens in the middle. Well, that's her storyline in this. If you just made that movie and we don't got Sakar and all that stuff, this movie isn't good.

SPEAKER_00 3:36:45

Well, I would have kept Sakar, Act Two onwards. There is Sakar.

SPEAKER_02 3:36:48

I'm saying if you got what stuff are you gonna put in there to make the rest of the Hella story good? Because when you a lot of those things you said happen later. That does happen. She does reveal things, she does, but there are it happens differently than you put.

SPEAKER_04 3:37:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:37:04

But because it's later, it's that's the filler that we like enough to want to see. Because frankly, the hella storyline, if you look at just that side of this movie, it's pretty freaking predictable and boring. She shows up, kills everybody, throws Thorin Loki out, takes over, tells the true story, they show up, they beat her, Surter destroys it. That's it. That's it. It's predictable as all hell, really. Maybe not the end end when it comes on to Sterter that is like a twist, but that's also because these two worlds now meet. Because the part of the story that is unpredictable, that makes that one stay fresh and we're not stuck in it, of that's the only thing going on, is we go to this wild crazy place, which you still keep in it, and it does still keep that. But in your version now, when you go back to Hella, what are you putting in its place? Because now you've already shown these things. You're gonna the whole scene of her waking the all-I mean, yeah, you can do the waking the army up, I guess. But that is a you're talking about rearranging minutes that I think I really think you're messing with a pace that this finds that you might lose the message of what's going on. And I do think it does mute, it would mute uh the Valkyrie character. I think you uh you we would still see the same progression of her, but I think you would automatically be like, oh, that's where it's gonna go. We needed to see that play out as Thora learned it. And if we learn it from the start, I don't know. And I and I it works better that she's there that long, too. Yes, because she's no longer one of them.

SPEAKER_00 3:38:38

She would uh she's not in my opening scene. Tessa Thompson's Valkyrie wouldn't have been in my opening scene, but the Valkyrie themselves would have still been there. Yes, instead of Thor saying they were legendary, I don't know why we didn't have them anymore, like kind of like how he alluded to when he found out she was a Valkyrie, it would have been like, You're one of them. You're your people just died. Oh, the hard sell.

SPEAKER_02 3:39:02

I don't know, man. I I think the pacing of this because I think that's one of the problems. Guardian. I I really do think that it helps that we don't hear that side of it.

SPEAKER_00 3:39:23

Because I think with Valkyrie just being out there, it it causes a because her whole shtick, Valkyrie, Tessa Thompson's. I know we're having gone into act two, we're about we're basically just about to. But her whole shtick is that that's why that's one of the reasons why she left is because how the royal family was, how Odin was, and she's it her flashbacks are of Hella.

SPEAKER_02 3:39:48

Oh, yeah, yeah. She's she come with the fact that everybody around her died from this.

SPEAKER_00 3:39:52

You already have characters that exist in this world that knew about Hella, other than Odin. It's not like when Odin imprisoned Hella, he was literally the Only one to remember. Oh, yeah, I know. And so it does surprise me. That's the only loophole in the whole story that they've never even heard of Hella as a mythical character at all, let alone she's your sister. That's that's that's the part where it's like, how do you throw that in there? You know, it's it's so See, that's the layer of Odin that I like in this, though. I I agree. I like it for all of it.

SPEAKER_02 3:40:23

From everybody.

SPEAKER_00 3:40:24

Yeah. But she obviously knew, and she's just not on Asgard to tell him this is what's going on. So I guess it does play into that character trope of the the royal family kids don't know what the real world is like for their history and all that stuff. I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 3:40:39

But well, it plays into real world stuff. If you look at our own history and as human beings, it's your civilizations and things that's happened, they've changed how they teach you.

SPEAKER_04 3:40:50

You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 3:40:50

But there's still people that have known. They're still the outskirts, but they it's become now all that's you know, what? It's it's not till it's there. Truthfully, if you told Thor and Loki all this, it's easy. That's a story people have told for a long time. You know, and that and and that's easy, right? I mean, it's like right, like easy peasy. If you put it to something that we're doing now today, if I told you Hitler didn't die and you went to Argentina, people say a conspiracy theorist. Yeah, but the truth is we spent millions of dollars looking for him in Argentina after World War II. So like people knew that, but you go to school, what do they tell you in school? That he died in World War II. Yeah. So it's like, wait a minute, we're not being told the truth. But there's people you could never convince that that's that's what happened. You will never, you can show them all the evidence that he could have got to Argentina, and they will say, No, they wouldn't lie to us in school. That's what we're seeing here with that, too. And I think keeping that mystery of it is was important because it makes Thor have to choose who he's gonna be. And it's not as easy to just be like, oh, my dad got screwed, or he's so bad. It's that gray area that has been the problem for Thor, which is who, which is where he is still wandering at this time, you know, where we are right now with him. And I and I think that that's that has to be stated that Captain Porn. Although, here's what I'll say an awesome, epic battle scene with the Valkyrie and Hella would be sweet to see. I just don't know if it would help the pacing of this movie. The fact that it is kind of glossed over, where she's telling it from her point of view, kind of works more so for me than actually seeing the battle. I think we had this talk before. I think we met I think we both looked at each other and said, Man, it would have been kind of cool if we saw that whole battle scene.

SPEAKER_04 3:42:35

So you I guess it would fit if it was in a flashback.

SPEAKER_02 3:42:41

But I don't think it would fit if it was happening as it happened. Because I also think it's important that she goes to Sakar and is there for a long time, that she's rooted in this place. Because her character, we need to see a leap from someone that's really at zero and come up because she's a she's so she does at some point she just doesn't care in this. To the point where she we meet her, she's drunk. Like she's just doing this because she can. And she's always on the edge. He's I mean, he's got a staff that can melt you in a second. So, like, I mean, and and she's she's somewhat afraid of what they can do to her. Yeah. So I if we if it happened, if the event of the Valkyries happens in the beginning of this movie, then she hasn't had long enough to be into that and to where she is yet. She's gonna feel like them. She might be mad at the royal family, like you say, and all that, but she's gonna be she's not gonna be this this, you know, this thing, whatever. You guys screwed up alone. You don't even know. You think you know your dad? I've known what really happened, and that's why I didn't like helping you. I'm gonna sit up here and drink my beer and watch you ask.

SPEAKER_00 3:43:47

I think that still would have been part of it. Because that's just doesn't seem like long enough. Because separating, no, well, see, if she, Tessa Thompson Valkyrie is not part of the Valkyries to go when Hella gets broken out of prison, but she was part of them during that whole time initially, and then that's why she left. If she had enough of the royal family, yeah, then you're seeing the whole rest of the army. Some she may knew, some she may not knew, who knows, as guardians live a long time. But it she already has disconnected herself. You get the same drunk Valkyrie that's a scavenger hunter on Sakar, like you normally do. It's just that you've also now seen what her people were like and what she you get a glimpse of what she once was like, but based off of her fellow sisters. That seeing her now and him trying to convince her to come back when she already doesn't that her exact storyline is exactly the same. I would have kept she's not part of the Valkyries in this when isn't she just a survivor of this? From that flashback, she was a Valkyrie. That's why she has the tattoo of them and everything. She left them because of Hella from a long time ago, Hella. Before the Valkyrie died, yes, yeah. So now Thor can probably get a little bit more sense of all the Valkyrie now in modern day are completely gone. Not because they were gone a long time ago as an army they didn't need. Obviously, Asgard has armies, but it's funny that they don't have their Valkyrie anymore. Right. But they're I don't know if they're linking it in this movie that they don't have the Valkyrie because of Hella a long time ago, or I would have made it where you still had the Valkyrie, and this is how they all died. Yeah. And then all of a sudden, there's one still out there that he has to now convince to come back with them to save Asgard. So she left before the Valkyrie died mad because Hella exists.

SPEAKER_02 3:45:35

Yes. That's what you're saying.

SPEAKER_00 3:45:36

Mad because of the royal family, the dynamics, and they felt like they were, she was, she felt like they were doing Odin's bidding the whole time, including Hella triming on it.

SPEAKER_02 3:45:46

What you are, though, changing is fundamentally why she feels the guilt she feels. And I think that that does change her character too much. Because she hates Odin in the whole situation because the Valkyrie's die. It's not because of what they were doing. I I really do feel that at the time you don't know different. If you're if you're all father, the one you worshiped, all you know, and that's what you're doing, then the outlier would just be her and saying, Oh, look, no, this isn't it right. I don't think they had that problem. I don't at least I don't think a Valkyrie would be one of them. I think out of all the things in Asgard, it'd be someone that just lives there saying, Why are we doing this? But the Valkyrie is so they're committed. It's like a this their job really in the long run, it doesn't matter what these other ones does, their job is to do what they did, which is show up for this battle, you know. I I do I will have to say you you almost got me sold because it would be good. Um, it would be a great scene to see that battle. But I think she's dealing with Survivor's Guild in this, and I think doing that doesn't make it Survivor's Guild. Like she's not only gotta get over being mad at Odin and them, because technically she doesn't have to, even in this movie, she could still feel the exact same way about how she feels about it. It's her idea of being a Valkyrie she's afraid of because of what happened. Because she feels like maybe she could have made a difference, or maybe it could have been different for her if she was there. Or I there's a lot of snares that's going through her head. It's because for Survivor's Guilt, it's like why me type of thing, and that's why she's a drunk, and that's why she's this is all I'm good for, because all that means nothing. And now that he's done doing what he did and they died for nothing, screw Asgard, I'm out of here, and I'm I'm gonna stay here, I'm not going back. I think the Valkyrie for her character, they need it needs to be a dead thing, not but for ending the Valkyrie as a force.

SPEAKER_00 3:47:49

It's one thing if Hello destroyed the whole army back then and they just re-got more soldiers type thing, but they they decide not to even have the Valkyrie anymore.

SPEAKER_02 3:47:58

I think it's a bold choice, a bold choice, but I do think it's a good one. Because they changed Ragnarok too. The events of Ragnarok are different as well, and I have no problem with that either. Technically, even having Surter come back should have brought Fahala right there.

SPEAKER_00 3:48:14

Well, the only problem I would say from my point of view of doing of doing my version of it would have been that why haven't we seen the Valkyrie since then then? So that that makes a loophole for my whole shtick too, at the same time, because it's maybe it's because they're not needed.

SPEAKER_02 3:48:31

Because I think there's a see, I think what they're doing with this movie in particular is it's a reboot, right? This is their biggest, and this is part of like the big swing I'm gonna talk about in a little while, which we'll still get to because we've got a lot of good stuff still talk about, guys. Yeah. But I this is a reboot. This is the most daring thing someone's ever done in the MCU. And this is where it's stuck with me. Because I've thought about some of these same thoughts you have about man, but that does get rid of the Valkyrie. That kind of is weird because it's always a thing. But once again, it's like if you don't know it's not there, you know, if you've never needed the Valkyrie again since then, then you're it's a secret you're keeping. And we're finding out as we go through these movies. Odin's been real good about keeping some weird secrets because Melchief was even a thing of his that he just didn't want nobody to know. Yeah, and that was even an argument you kind of had that nobody talked about these things floating around out there. Well, because for Odin, it's like we're not gonna talk about our mistakes. You know what I mean? And it this is the same thing. This is why he imprisoned her and said nothing about her, and the Valkyries go. Oh, yeah, don't worry, the Valkyrie's there, they'll come when they need to. You know what I mean? Because that's kind of what he's you kind of go, shit, we don't need him. And in Odin's mind, he's he's he's too uh full of himself. He thinks we're not gonna need him until this, until he goes to die. He literally leaves a mess for his children that he uh kind of apologizes to him before he leaves. Yeah. And in the long run, you're kind of like, thanks a lot, Dick. You know what I mean? Like in a because and that's kind of what happens here. That's why my best emotional scene isn't his death. Because it to me, it's like, whoa, you just put he just put in events that when you watch the rest of this movie, there's no winning, it's only survival. Yeah, this entire movie, nobody wins anything, they just live it. Thanks, Dad. Yeah, thanks, Dad. And some of it is because of what's happened, and I think that that's where her character fits in the most. So I think that that's why it's awesome as I'd if it's a flashback scene, if we're showing her walking through the halls, and she's by the way, this is what I did, and we went into this awesome scene, I'd be great with that. But for the beginning part of the movie, to see that right off the bat, right off the bat, no, I think she shows her power by freaking killing everybody we know and and the armies. I mean, she does. She walks through this place like it's no one's business. There's no beating her. Thor can't beat her, nobody can beat her. There's only one thing that can beat her.

unknown 3:50:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:50:57

And that's the end of the thing, which is the rag and draw. And because nobody can beat him when he's that. When you put him in the eternal flame, that's the end of their world. It's the whole thing, it's prophesized, which complements to what Thor's been afraid of this whole time. And but either way, that's you that's stuff we 100% agree on. But with her, I really I don't know. I'm not saying it would, because we we don't get that version of the movie. I've just like, as good as the stuff you're saying would be, and I would like to see that movie, I think A, you'd struggle with the pacing of the film, and B, you would you would definitely tie your hand one hand behind your back when you're telling the story of Hella in this, because what compliments the movie to me is that it is a cookie-cutter villain movie with something in it that makes that worth it. That you don't think of those, because if it was just a movie about them out doing some journey that didn't have all the cosmic crazy shit that we get, and it was them with Hella, it's a boring ass movie. And your version still puts all the cosmic stuff in it, you're right. But you're what you're doing though is you're taking stuff that you could use to put in there with her and putting a lot in the beginning. So now you got to get more creative there too. Because it is time where it's like, oh, so what's going on on Asgard? Let's go back, and she'll tell you a story. Okay, then we go back to we go back to Sakar. Then what's going on in Asgard? We go back and she's building an army. It's like it's it's great, and you need those things. You don't want to do them too soon because you need them for later, because you can't really do anything with her storyline. It's pretty cut and dry. She shows up, she takes over, and she needs to be beat. And we got people hiding. Really, that's a shit movie. The movie, the one side of this movie is that's a terrible movie. And a lot, it'd be a normal cookie cutter MCU bullshit movie. But because of the mix, it's not. And but like I said, I just think you're limiting yourself on what you're able to do with her when we do go to her. You want to keep it interesting enough to feel like it's at least par enough where you don't feel like because not once in this movie, I'm like, okay, I can't wait to get back to the cigar. Like when I see her scenes and what's going on, I'm engaged. Like, yeah, cool, cool. I think if you've shown too much in the beginning, um we wouldn't be as engaged later. It'd just be a villain sitting there talking shit. Personally, I don't know. I maybe you can still convince me as we go along. Your version's not bad though. I don't I don't want you to think I'm telling you it's all because it's good. Uh I just think that the nuance of it though, I do believe that that is there. And I maybe mainly for the the sake of Valkyrie. I I really think that her character feeling like, yeah, you you're right, she's been around a long time. But I think the trauma though of the death of the other Valkyries is what we need to believe that and see that play out over that long period of time. Because she's pretty much ready to. I don't even care if they kill me at this point. And for someone that just hates where she's from, I feel like she'd have found a niche somewhere else. But she's prohibited from finding that niche because she's also a sole survivor of an event that she's really pissed off about, and that she actually kind of feels responsible for. And I think that that's very important to her character because Thor feels responsible for all the stuff he's doing, just like Loki's gonna feel responsible when he has a conversation with him in the elevator, and just like Hawk is gonna, or Banner and them are gonna kind of feel responsible in its own way, and that's why that you know there's not much character development with Banner and all that, but there's some. He's gotta take responsibility for leaving and all that. And he does in this. I think that that's a theme that you need that. I think that trauma needs to be there. But I got so far. Yeah, we're gonna be going back and forth, guys. This is gonna be fun. Or I I like I said, I don't want you to be offended because I lied to you. I'm not offended. No, it's just I'm gonna give it to you. The one I'm gonna give it to you. I do think that I do think that that man, it might be missing something though, if we if we went that far with it, you know. I kind of like Odin doesn't get back to Asgard. I like that it's there I don't know. There's a mix of some of the stuff you said out kind of would be that would work real well. But I do think she needs to be, I think she needs to experience the death of Valkyries. And she also needs to be gone a long time. Like those two things are important. In my opinion, I would definitely wouldn't change that. She needs to be there when they die to feel that responsibility, have that trauma. And she has to feel like she's been on a cigar for a freaking long time. Yeah, because it plays out real well on what she's acting like. Because she arrives there the same time they do, she's not gonna be that natural. She'd be missed and angry, and you know, no, but the fact that he's that talker into it shows that she's just like, yeah, I've chose that. I made a choice a long time ago. Yeah. You know, so yeah, I think that that's I think that's the only thing that would contradict it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:55:47

Well, that's that's I feel like that's the only thing I would have kept different. That Valkyrie Tessa Thompson character. I just wish we as an audience got to see actually see the Valkyrie in some capacity. A flashback scene would be cool. I'm not saying it wouldn't be, because we would get a similar scene, but I I don't know. I love seeing Hella destroying things.

SPEAKER_02 3:56:12

You know what? Me too.

SPEAKER_00 3:56:13

That is a huge uh um plus in this movie of the villain in particular. Is she's villained just to be a villain. We don't have to overcomplicate the villain of she, yes, just evil. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 3:56:27

I think it I think you're underestimating, and maybe and maybe not, but I think maybe it's possible you're underestimating the power it shows when she comes through and she slays everybody we know that's powerful. Because there's they have some of them have no chance. And these are guys that we've even said that'd be a great TV show of these guys, and where people would say, Oh, she wouldn't. This is where some people say there's a fault in this. In act two, we might as well start talking about a little bit, and like, cool. Yeah, in act two, in the beginning, she literally comes in and here they are, and there's these are these people that we've seen go on adventures with Thor in the other two movies, and she just legitly murders them right there. And there's only one later that really puts up a bigger fight with her, and it's a great scene. And then she also walks right through an army of As Guardians, and it and like for me, that's like I wouldn't underestimate what that means to us as well, because they bitch and say, Oh man, they did wrong to those characters by killing them that way. I turn, I actually say the opposite. They did right by her by showing that they ain't stopping shit. And I think that that means a lot to me. I think for me, that's how it worked for me, rather than I don't think they sidelined those characters. I think that was a purposely purpose decision. I think Tyco was like, we'll show you how bad she is. All these guys you love that keep living all these other ones. See ya.

SPEAKER_00 3:57:43

I think that if you did my version of her killing the Valkyrie before she got to Asgard, instead of just just ruining the hammer before he got to Asgard, it would have carried more weight of why she does she should not step foot on Asgard. Because all we have seen thus far from her at that point in act one is she just walks through a portal and then she, you have no idea what's possible, and she destroys the hammer, and then Loki summons the Bifrost. That that's it. There's not enough yet to say we know she's bad. There's no question of that. And her power is mighty doing that with a hammer, of course. But there's not enough to say how kind of predicting what she's gonna do when she gets up there. Because once she gets up there and she just goes through them like butter, that's huge. And I feel like if they they showed that going through the whole Valkyrie army like butter, it would have been a bigger urgency as the audience and everyone to say, we can't let her get up there, and then she gets there.

SPEAKER_02 3:58:43

And as they did that in conversation, though, because Odin told them that. He said she her power comes from Asgard. She can't, she can't get there. So that's why when Loki does do out of fear, but when you're not being a coward, Thor's like, no, because he knows what he said is true.

SPEAKER_00 3:58:58

But for me, that's a little bit of a disconnect. When you just say, Oh, the power com her power comes from Asgard and she's unstoppable when she's in Asgard. Okay, you're just you're just laying down the terms of what her power limitations and expansions are. It's different saying something like that, but you don't feel it. You feel it when you see her cut through 70 Valkyrie women and their horses all in one go. Like, be like, whoa, what the heck is this person? And then say that thing should not come in Asgard, and all of a sudden, that would have been like, no, no, no, to the anticipation of seeing a monster come up there. And then it makes more sense when she just starts slaying them all because you know that's what she's gonna do.

SPEAKER_02 3:59:46

Well, it's funny we feel the opposite about this. Because I actually feel like the fact that it's a hidden history thing adds onto the layer of the lie of this thing. I agree, and I also think you can't do that without changing Valkyrie then. And I think that'd be the biggest mistake of the movie.

SPEAKER_00 4:00:04

Well, when I talk about Valkyrie as the whole Valkyrie changing tenant the Tessa Thompson, I wouldn't have even been in that opening scene.

SPEAKER_04 4:00:13

Right.

SPEAKER_00 4:00:13

She's just uh someone that they found on Sakar that he has this idea. You are one of these people, you could help me.

SPEAKER_02 4:00:20

No, I know I think you're keeping a lot of that there, but the thing you're keeping out of it though is she needs to experience that event for her character to be that way, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_00 4:00:27

I feel like she could have experienced that, but also not gotten Odin could have not gotten rid of the Valkyrie as an army. You know what I mean? Like Hella may have done that and she feels the survivor's guilt from all of her sisters.

SPEAKER_02 4:00:38

I think maybe the best way it could have been this could have been the new Valkyrie.

SPEAKER_00 4:00:41

Yes, basically.

SPEAKER_02 4:00:42

Like, you know, because like you know, if you do that, you got a great scene.

SPEAKER_00 4:00:45

Yeah, if you think about like in our army, like say we got wasted in the war or something, that doesn't mean the US army is gonna be gone, just means you need more recruits because you're down manpower.

SPEAKER_02 4:00:54

You know, that that's a great your perfect argument you could have. I would tell you, you know, I don't know if it'll make the movie better or not. It doesn't change the movie for me. I agree. That's yeah. If you did explain it where the new group of Valkyrie that come into fight, she kills right away. That would be, I would, I would agree. Yes, that would be good and put it in. We just need to always keep that storyline that the order.

SPEAKER_00 4:01:15

For Tessa Thompson Valkyrie.

SPEAKER_02 4:01:17

Because it keeps her in.

SPEAKER_00 4:01:18

And I actually think that would improve a bit. That might actually improve a little because she'd be mad to think another wave of Valkyrie had to die. Well, not only that, it'd show that she's a legacy member of the of Asgard. Yes. She's from that time where they're Thor. Yes. Which obviously she was. Yeah. That's that's what we do get in the moment the two or three glimpses of her fighting Hella, it's that's proof because Thor had no idea he wasn't even born when Hella was going through all that stuff. So she already is a legacy character, but this would kind of cement her as like this this bitter legacy as as guardian that doesn't want to go back because she. Tired of everything, all of it. And she also has this heartbreak of what happened there. She's she feels more accomplished being a scavenger than she does being, which I love this taste on Valkyrie, this twist on her. Yeah. And actually, I think it just compliments Tessa Thompson's character there. But I I agree what what you said uh a couple moments ago is that even with what those little changes I would have made, that whole restructuring I would say of Act One, that doesn't take away from how great Act One was. In a degree. I'm not saying this as a this didn't work for me. Yeah. It's just this is how I felt when I watched it. I'm like, oh, they could have restructured this, giving it more content.

SPEAKER_02 4:02:43

I could follow you into it would be a great scene to add on. It adds to the powerfulness of what she is. But then where I could also say, though, I think what they've done in the movie done is enough.

SPEAKER_00 4:02:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:02:53

By killing those guys when she shows up.

SPEAKER_00 4:02:55

Oh yeah. Oh, yeah, because that is epic.

SPEAKER_02 4:02:57

Because it and it does kind of add to that idea that they don't even understand what's happening because they don't know the truth of all this. Like I think everyone's in the dark because Odin did this to them in the long run. You're generations now of people that are like, well, you know, or thousands of years of a secret. I think I'd like that aspect of it that he's he kind of screwed his own kingdom here. Odin really messed this up, um, which is why I think Thora walks away from being king later. Because it needs to go out of that bloodline. It needs to go out of that. But that's a whole different movie, a whole different topic.

SPEAKER_00 4:03:28

Well, let's get into that hella doing that scene. But first, let's give our score for act one.

SPEAKER_02 4:03:33

I'm just getting to act two.

SPEAKER_00 4:03:34

So what what's your score for act one, all this?

SPEAKER_02 4:03:37

Yeah, I'm gonna give it a 10 out of 10. That's what we're talking. It's I mean, there's a couple things that I just I can't I can't think of a better way to do it. And we could add your scene. Um, you've already I think you've got me where the scene would definitely work, but you haven't convinced me that it doesn't work without it. So I think that it stays a 10 out of 10.

SPEAKER_00 4:03:57

Yep. So I gave it an 8.5 out of 10.

unknown 4:04:01

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 4:04:01

Yeah. Well, I get it. Like that's still a good number. It doesn't, but it's still a great, it's still a great act. It really is a great act. So, anyways, um, so act two. Um, yeah, you read this one.

SPEAKER_02 4:04:16

Stranded on Sakar, Thor is captured and forced into gladiator combat under the rule of the Grand Master. There he discovers the champion fighter is none other than the Hulk, who has been missing since the events of Avengers Age of Ultron. Thor forms an escape plan. Meanwhile, Loki has risen to a position of influence on Sakar, but ultimately betrays and is betrayed in typical fashion. Together, Thor and Hulk, Valkyrie, and Loki. Uh Thor forms a ragtag team known as the Reventress, is and they return to Asgard to start Asgard to start Hella. And not this isn't included in there, but in the meantime, Hella pretty much destroys Asgard an army and raises a new one of her own, including what's the name of that wolf?

SPEAKER_00 4:04:58

Uh Ventress.

SPEAKER_02 4:04:59

That's the name of it. I think it's Ventress. Awesome.

SPEAKER_00 4:05:02

Yeah, and she's also at this time trying to find the the sword to the Bifrost and all the synthesis.

SPEAKER_02 4:05:09

We got Heimdell out there hiding everybody and doing his thing.

SPEAKER_00 4:05:11

Yeah. Yep.

unknown 4:05:12

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 4:05:13

Oh my god, I can't forget to talk about that.

SPEAKER_00 4:05:14

Yeah. All right. So, well, this this scene does start off with what we just left off at. Yeah. With Hella introducing herself to the army. I love her. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, right. I love her speech. Great. It's great, quick exposition of who she is without without having to, you know, get into too much depth. I love that because the that's what see, Hella is one of those villains for me. Then this is this moment is um that moment for me of okay, I love this villain. What she does here, every bit of it, from her dialogue to her action. Yeah. Spot on. This is this is refreshing for me to see a villain that they took this type of swing for and said, you know what, let's not make her overly complicated. She's simple, she's evil, she's the goddess of death. Let her kill. Yeah. And she does. A lot. Yeah. A lot. Yes. Yeah. This whole thing. Her her whole speech on I'm the rightful heir to the throne, Odin's firstborn. And then she said I trying to remember the exact wording she says, but something about how um I got rid of Thor and Loki. You're welcome. Like she gives that comedic tone to it to be like, oh, whoa, you're you're just you're just bad. You're just mean.

SPEAKER_04 4:06:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:06:34

Yeah. So I'm actually kind of surprised no one in the army was like, yeah, we'll just follow you then because you you kick some pretty serious buttons.

SPEAKER_02 4:06:42

I think if they realized who she just got done killing, they may have, someone may have, you know, but it all happened so quick.

SPEAKER_00 4:06:48

It did, and it was. It was very quick for us too. The only the only smart one for survival instincts was um uh Carl Urban's character there. Oh, yeah. Um executioner.

SPEAKER_02 4:06:57

Yeah, he's just like, uh, I'm an idiot. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:07:00

He's just like, okay, scourge, yes. Like, oh okay. But anyways, yeah, that scene, wow, yeah, that blew my mind.

SPEAKER_02 4:07:08

Yeah. I love that she kills these guys like this, and then we all are in shock. Yeah. And and like I said, I think half of the of the fans took it as, oh, why'd you do it to those characters? And the other half took it as like, yeah, she's not messing around.

SPEAKER_00 4:07:22

And I I personally took it that way when I said you well, you were spot on what you said a couple minutes ago about that that controversial scene for the fans of three of his best mates right there just died just like that. A lot of people would have been like, oh, they should have had more screen time. What the heck? But you can't do a disservice to who Hella is.

SPEAKER_04 4:07:43

Right.

SPEAKER_00 4:07:44

You can't, for their character's sake, drag on another character's sake or drag on a scene for that. There is to Hella, they're nothing to her. They're no dialogue that is needed. It's just, you're dead, I'm moving on.

SPEAKER_02 4:07:58

You could have easily made the decision to have there be a fight between them and they'd limp away her and they're helping Heimdahl, and they're still there, and we get all these little character dynamics between them there. They'll dampen her power. Would have been neat stuff, but the fact that there's no other they wouldn't have done nothing else but try to fight her at that moment. Yep. And trying to fight her is death at this moment. Yep. And that's what they got. And it's like, whoa. And I think that that that and we're rebooting Thor.

SPEAKER_00 4:08:22

Yeah, and this this is a bold take. Yeah. This is a very bold take. This yeah, this is literally killing off the old of what you thought and bringing in the new, and the Gaza Death is doing that. Yeah. And it's a great.

SPEAKER_02 4:08:34

That's the task Fucky gave him reboot Thor, because we're in a spot where people are complaining that the one of another Thor Dark World, as as decent as it was, in parts it was good still. I think it still gets too much hate. But another one of those is we'll be talking about what are we doing with Thor right now? And even Chris himself has been vocal about, yeah, Thor's kind of boring. I know we gotta do something different. And I think people thought the difference was gonna be the humor, but the truth is the difference is the reboot. And the reboot is use the goddess of death, like you just said, and we're do we're getting rid of everything. We're starting all new. You know what I mean? Yeah. And it's and to do that, the the rest has gotta go. Yeah. And that's that's the bold choice. It's it's you can't just keep the ones you like. You can, but they gotta have a purpose. Yeah. Yep. You know, and it's like You're exactly right. Yeah, and the only reason Hundel didn't die in this one is because they wanted to make sure Thanos had somebody to kill in the beginning of Infinity War. That's the truth to that, too. Or he to die in this one too. But I think they're kind of like, you know what, save him because we'll have him die here to really bring Thanos home as well. Yeah. That's what helps. I mean, and that's just how it works. I think that that's I think that it's brilliant in that way. And I guess, yeah, you can argue that, but these guys they deserve, yeah, they did. But that's the point. They did deserve better. And she did it, makes us go, oh my god, oh my god, who she comes? Not good, not good. Yeah. And then when she's killing an army, oh my god, just that awesome choreography fight scene. Oh, so good. And I love every moment when she shows up with things, and you see um the shadow of her antlers on the ground. There's more many times it happens in the movie. Every time it does, I'm like, that is just because those are antlers, right?

SPEAKER_03 4:10:21

Like those are the ridiculous, but it's so cool.

SPEAKER_00 4:10:26

I love how they make it where it's almost par. Like when she pins someone against the wall, the antlers are up. They're like this. Yeah, it's like, holy smokes, this thing is like part of you.

SPEAKER_02 4:10:37

This is this is crazy cool. Like after she shows up there from the Bifrost, and she's looking at she kills everybody, and she's looking at Asgard, and you see her fate. Like when she stands a back shot over, it's the antlers, and right in the middle is the peak of the building. Like, yeah, you're just like they just he just does so well at organizing these shots. So when she stands there before she gives a speech, you see that antlers are huge from the shadow of them, and then she turns and they talk to her, and it's like and she does a speech. Like it's they do it several times in this later when Thor confronts her in the throne room and all that they're there too. And it's just it looked the visuals of this is so good. But yeah, Kate Blanchett, man. What a mean great mean.

SPEAKER_00 4:11:17

Yeah, yes. I love that. I did and I I love that character change of making her the sister instead of what the comics did. We're gonna get to that when we get into our deep dives because I want to make sure everyone knows exactly where she originated from the comics.

SPEAKER_02 4:11:31

But, anyways, so let's talk about some cigar stuff from yes.

SPEAKER_00 4:11:34

Let's dive into the cigar. This trash planet. What the heck? I think it's cool as hell. This is awesome.

SPEAKER_02 4:11:40

Yes, this 80s, like futuristic, weird. It is just it's working for me.

SPEAKER_00 4:11:46

You know what I appreciate about this, and it's a compliment to what you said earlier that exactly is what they Kevin Feige gave to Taika Watities to revitalize him. See, I like Viking Thor. I like that type of stuff. I was I was fine with it. I didn't think it was too dull or too boring or whatever. Maybe a few more comedic tastes, but not that didn't take away from my enjoyment of Thor. But Taika Watidi, he's like, Well, I have this idea. We're gonna combine a Hulk storyline with the Thor storyline so it's less Viking-y and more retro cosmic type Thor and give him that humor. And for this movie, it works. I would have been fine with a traditional Thor Ragnarok film of as guardians and the nine realms and fighting Hella and defend making sure Surter stays back, did not unleash Ragnarok. I think that would have been kind of cool. Uh, Ragnarok, I should say. But I love this. I love all the days it was Sakar. This is the best way they could have done it. They this is a compliment way of bringing the Hulk into other people's movies.

SPEAKER_04 4:12:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:12:58

Where it's still a Thor movie, but this you've now entered Hulk's area.

SPEAKER_02 4:13:02

Yeah, this is the best way to use it when you're right. Yeah. I think so too. Yeah. And I think that this tone of the 80s futuristic feel and like this thing, I think they looked at the things that are successful. And I'm not saying they're cut, pasting, copying, but it's definitely a version of, right? So when they saw how well the Guardians of the Galaxy did, they're just like, so you know that feel we get from Guardians? We kind of want this to feel this too. Because this feels like a world the Guardians could live in, too. Yes. And with that, I think is what helped open Thor up to the rest of the universe of Marvel, where we could put him almost anywhere now. Yeah. And it works. Because I would argue that you never lose Viking Thor. We just don't get the Viking tail anymore. Yes. At least for a while, right? But we don't lose Thor still is that guy. But this is taking him and making him this much of a fish. This is more of a fish out of water than sending him to Earth, right? And I think this is where you for the first time in the Thor in the Thor movies, not the first time it's ever happened, but the first time it's happened this much with this much consequence, where we actually see an arc for Thor where he's going from A to becoming a B. And there's a lot that happens to get there. You know what I mean? When I know there's you can argue in both the first two movies, he still has somewhat of an arc about learning things, not like you do in this movie. This movie he amps it up to like, oh no. We need Thor to go from that long-haired Thor that we know from the last movie, which is how he starts in the beginning of this movie, to a whole different person, like a whole different man who is like you definitely question his choices. You know what I mean? Like you need him to be that guy. Yeah. You just slowly are stripping him of everything that makes him that from before until they literally take his eye, they literally cut his hair, they literally get rid of his weapon. They literally are stripping him things that we could some people say, but that's changing the character. Yeah, it's not some I've read, I guess, this version of the story we get in this movie towards the end. There's no other that's not in the comics at all. But you know what? Look how well it served the character, though. Because when you get to Love and Thunder, we got the best mix of both. Yeah, we get our Viking Thorback, and he's this guy. Yes. Yes. So what the hell? I mean, now we're yeah, now we do have Thorback, and he's still fun. And he's not just sad Thor all the time, right? Yeah, he's a Thor that's doing things, and that's so that's kind of like he set this up for success in that way. And Sakar is I mean, the Hulk is just awesome. That and and this is a brilliant choice, just the choice of not only is this the right way to use Hulk, but to explain where Hulk went, this is so smart. Yep. That he just goes there, turns into Hulk and stays Hulk, because fuck it. You know what I mean? Sorry about my language, guys. It turns into Stays Hulk, because screw it, and he's you know, just beating people up all day. This is big baby Hulk doing his thing, you know? Yeah, and Hulk does kind of act like a big toddler, you know, and and that kind of speaks to like I'll touch on this real quick, because the hard part about this movie is when we compliment things in the middle. There's something later on that we need to say as well because it compliments it so well, is how they do Hulk in this, where this is the first time you truly feel like Hulk and Banner are two different people. When the rest of the time the MCU, they say it all the time. You know, he's not, it's a different guy. Well, and he he even says it a lot that he's a different guy, didn't bring the other guy out, right? Yeah, but this is the first time you actually feel it. Like, oh, I understand now, more so that Hulk and Banner are very two different people, you know? Um, and that's because they allowed Hulk to have some language. I like that he's talking somewhat in mess because it's very not, it's not structured, it's but it's understanding and it's it's who he is, the Hulk.

SPEAKER_00 4:17:04

Well, I like that too because it really differentiates Bruce Banner from the Hulk, how he's supposed to be. Exactly. Hulk is when Bruce turns into the Hulk, and that he always says it's the other guy, the other guy, but all you're all you really are left with most of the time from the Avengers movies is because he says I can control it. And the first one is that the other guy is just a green version of Bruce. This shows that no, this is an other sentient being that's always fighting to take control over the human form of negotiating with. Yes, yes, yes, and this is Infinity War. Yeah, yeah, it's perfect. Yes, it does. The Rooster brothers complimented that really well in Infinity War. I can't wait till we get to that retrospective guy.

SPEAKER_02 4:17:46

I think they're all like, listen.

SPEAKER_00 4:17:47

Yeah, I think at this point, because of how they ended this movie, and it was literally jumping right into Infinity War, I think at this point everyone was doing everything. Oh, yeah, I think the Rooster they were already filming some of Infinity War when it got to the end of Spider-Man Homecoming.

SPEAKER_02 4:18:04

Um which speaks volumes on how good Tyka did here.

SPEAKER_00 4:18:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:18:08

Because not only did he make his own movie, but he also followed their guidelines to help it fit perfect to what they wanted. Because he still made some swings that they were like, man, maybe we didn't like that. So we don't like that you took his eye, but go ahead because we'll just give him another one. Exactly. And it's still fine. And it works because not only are we gonna give him another one, but it's gonna be from Rocket, and people are gonna laugh because Rocket steals people's stuff and it makes it work. It's like, oh, see, it works. And they made the eye a different color than his natural eye. That's so cool. It's just so good to work together like that. Yeah. Uh yeah, and then it differentiates Hulk so much, which actually speaks to a thing that um I kind of noticed about the Hulk in this. And this is where people might kind of laugh at me. And we say, Oh yeah, dog, we knew that too. Why didn't you know that? Well, I guess, guys, I just it always flew over my head. But there's not many times in the MCU when Hulk is the Hulk until he becomes Smart Hulk. Okay, but anything before Smart Hulk, there's not many times in the MCU where the Hulk, while he's the Hulk, actually listens or obeys anybody.

SPEAKER_00 4:19:07

You know, he's always Well, and even Smart Hulk is still Bruce. He put the brains and the bronze together and literally says, No, but he can conversate.

SPEAKER_02 4:19:15

He can say, Hey Bruce, don't do that, he won't, you know. But even like just Hulk himself, he's not really obeying nobody.

SPEAKER_04 4:19:22

No.

SPEAKER_02 4:19:23

But when you call him Hulk, though, he does. So when you make the deaf the when you you notice in the first Avengers movie, when Cap turns to him, he doesn't say banner smash, he says Hulk, and he turns on like smiles, he's a smash. It's like, so why would that Hulk ever do anything Captain America says? He's just gonna Hulk out and do shit, do whatever he wants. But it's because he literally is you know talking to Hulk, he's not talking to Banner. Yep. And later, that's why when later, when Iron Man with Veronica or with the Hulk Buster, yeah, yeah. His punch says, Come on, Banner, let's talk about it. And the Hulk freaks out. He goes, Okay, should have called you banner. Sorry, no banner. Yep. You know what I mean? You realize, oh yeah. It's just and then in this same thing happens at the end with Sword Surter. He doesn't yell out, don't fight him, or banner. He yells out Hulk. And the Hulk's like, monster. And he goes, No, no. Hulk, don't smash for once in your life. Yeah, I know it's nuanced and it's dominant, it's probably something stupid to be excited about, but for me, it's like it just shows a continuity of yes, character consistency of that is so important because it's just cool to know. It makes the Hulk more interesting too, you know. And it's like, I think that that's great that they it's such a subtle thing to sound big deal.

SPEAKER_00 4:20:32

Well, no, I think that is, you know, I would honestly I would put that and I'm gonna double check to make sure I don't contradict myself. But that what you just said is I want to say I mentioned it. The whole thing? Yeah, not the whole, not the whole, the Hulk thing, but not the the whole thing exactly. It's one of my two underrated moments of the movie, is that when you have the cinematic universe like this, and it's going through so many different hands of producers, directors, writers, creatives, character consistency can be hard to do. That's right. Doctor Strange in Multiverse of Man is a great example of that. That you could do it wrong, and you could drop the ball, even if you do tell a great story, it doesn't work for the character's over overall arc because you have to look at all the past and what they're trying to do in the future to make your present work good. They did it well with Hulk here. They understood what he was like before and how to keep Hulk and Banner separate. So that's it's it's a huge it's a moment that I don't think people talk too much of. You're right. Yeah. That this is this is peak Hulk and Peak Banner at the same time.

SPEAKER_02 4:21:42

And at the same time, they keep them separate like that is perfect. Yeah, and you know the thing is it's almost a hindrance to the MCU that it's that good for that reason. Because yes, you are a hundred percent correct, it's hard to keep that consistency, and we see it fail sometimes with with really well directed people, it's real good. The problem is though, is every time a Tyco ITD or somebody comes along and does do it well, we're saying, but it can be done. And it's kind of like it sets that it sets the bar now. It's like that's why I'll say as good as these movies keep getting, the problem is is the bar is kind of like uh oh. So when you get someone in there that can't quite hit it there, it it's almost more noticeable when they don't hit it. But it does, as someone like me though, go I look back and I think you really got an excuse though. You got several movies now of examples of how to do this. What is your problem? You know, like what's happening here? If you're messing up these other movies where these guys aren't messing them up, we're so far now. This isn't the beginning of the NCU, this is the middle of the project. This is now we're several movies in of mistakes that they've learned. And this is they sat down with Tycoet TD, he was smart enough to understand what they're talking about, he was smart enough to watch their catalog, or at least the Thor movies, even though he had to watch Ultron for a lot of this stuff. He's smart enough to know that I need to stay consistent because I'm bringing this into a franchise, but I still make my own movie. And he did that. So when you say it to another director in the next phase, hey, be consistent with what we got, but you know, you can still make your own movie and they're not consistent, it's like, who's dropping the ball here? So as good as it is is no excuse anymore at this point.

SPEAKER_00 4:23:32

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 4:23:33

He can do it, they can.

SPEAKER_00 4:23:34

Yes, and if they can't, you hire someone again. Yes, because that's one of the things that when you're I I I said this a moment ago, and I'm gonna try and not repeat myself, but this is a huge accomplishment. They've been able to be 17 movies in. This is our eighteenth episode, but our first one was an intro, guys. That 17 movies into a franchise, knowing bigger things are yet to come, and different, so many different hands have passed through this character of the Hulk, and you've kept Consistency. That is a huge accomplishment. That is a huge accomplishment because everyone's got their own take on certain characters. But to keep them still the same while also giving them something new to revitalize the character or revitalize the storyline, or in this case, the franchise. Wow.

SPEAKER_01 4:24:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:24:16

Good job. Bravo, Taika.

SPEAKER_02 4:24:18

So, what are some of your favorite stuff that happens here in Sakar? I'll just point out a couple real quick so we can move this along a little bit too. I love, I love Jeff Colboom as Grandmaster. I just love him and anything. He's so good. I like that they do that really weird Willie Wonker tunnel where he's sitting in the chair and you go through this whole thing. I like the weapon he has where he melts the guy. That's going on a weapons list, by the way. I for when I watch it. I'm like, oh my God, I forgot about that thing. The staff, yeah, that thing. Yeah. It's so cool. Yeah. And um, I like the him getting the haircut, great Stanley uh performance there. Yes. And then of course the whole gladiatorial arena thing is awesome.

SPEAKER_00 4:24:55

That that whole thing is one of my favorite moments of the whole movie. Yeah. Um I I struggled with even saying if that is or isn't, and we'll get there when we get to the that those deep dives, probably my favorite scene of the whole movie. It's hard because I'm like, there's so many of them. How do I pick just one? So we're gonna talk about him as we go, guys. That every bit of it from the beginning of saying he's a friend from work and Loki's face, ooh, like that was awesome. That was awesome, and then the just them fighting, and then Thor trying to do the Natasha thing, that's so cool. And then it's so funny. He does that same thing, and then Loki's like, Yes, that's how it feels. That's awesome. And then when Thor just starts unleashing his power and doesn't even realize the type thing, like he's just gonna do it. Wow, that whole thing was so well done. That was so thought out. It's not just two brute guys battling it out. You actually told there's a story, yeah, there's a story being told, and it's complimenting both characters at the same time, and it's really making the audience think it's like one of those scenarios when you would say, Oh, who would win the fight, Hulk or Thor? Well, this plays it out where at one moment the Hulk's gonna win, another moment Thor's gonna win, goes back to the Hulk, and then all of a sudden it's Thor, and I think the ultimate conclusion is guys Thor would win.

SPEAKER_02 4:26:18

I think it does kind of show that Thor could beat him.

SPEAKER_00 4:26:21

If it wasn't for the Grandmaster doing that thing, I think he would have knocked Bruce Banner right out of the Hulk. Yeah, I agree with you. But we won't know because they stopped it. But uh either way, that doesn't take away from how epic of a scene that was.

SPEAKER_02 4:26:34

To mention that thing you talked about. That's one thing I've found online that people complain about is Thor's the god of thunder and lightning. How is it how does a taser stop him all the time? And I'm just like, well, if you're watching the movie, you realize it's more than a taser. Like it's when he does do that to him, his veins like pop out and stuff. I think it's a weapon that that goes after your central nervous.

SPEAKER_00 4:26:54

Yeah, I was just gonna say that goes, it's it's very clear because he's incapacitated, he can't move, he can only see what's happening and know what's happening, but he can't do anything. That it's it's it's just like if we got hit by a taser, you know? He's just having it inside him getting electrocuted. It's not because it's yeah, a taser wouldn't have hurt him. This is a taser inside your body, guys. Yeah, this is it's different veins, pop right out.

SPEAKER_02 4:27:21

Yeah, so something it's like it's almost like a neurotoxin, really. Yeah, it's it's really wild to see. I think it's kind of cool, you know. I like it. Yeah, and uh so you guys it's not electric. It's it it does it. I think that's just what it seems because that's what they make the sound of it all. Yeah, that you know, this kind of I like that this is well, I guess we'll talk about it later when we get to the scene in the in the act three, because once again, I'm done too far ahead. So, yeah, no, I love all this. I like when him and Loki uh when he breaks Loki out and or when they both break out is a great scene. The whole thing with the Hulk and there is good. And it's all that's funny. You know, all that conversation they have about the fire, one's like a raging fire, and the other thing, yeah. It's I think it's funny. Yeah. Um, I also like uh Korg. Uh the kick in the walls, get out of here, you go to the music call. Yeah. Yeah, I think that's funny. I think he this is the this is where I will say what doesn't work for me in this act and onward. Yeah. Korg is funny, don't get me wrong. He's just not always fun.

SPEAKER_00 4:28:25

I feel that same way. There's he has moments, yeah, but that's it.

SPEAKER_02 4:28:29

And and you know what what saves him though is the times he's not that funny, it's not cringy enough to make me not like it. It just doesn't make me laugh like the times he is really funny. Yeah, yes. He does that funny vampire joke with the stick, and you're all huddled together. I think it's funny, but it's not like slant my knee funny, like when he kicks a wall thinking Loki's a ghost, right? Like I think that those moments are funnier. So it just it's a hit and miss with him, but the misses aren't necessarily bad, they're just not as funny.

SPEAKER_00 4:28:59

Some of them can be like when it's a running joke, it starts to teeter on the annoyance. And that the only the only one that I would say that sticks out to me is the pulling the hammer thing. That he because he he's taking it as oh, the hammer pulls you off as like a sexual reference or something like that. It it if it's just mentioned one time, but then when Thor's still trying to explain it and he keeps babbling on about it, that's to me. If I'm talking to someone and that's how they're taking it, I stop talking because I get to that point where no matter how I'm trying to explain what I'm feeling or what I'm saying, you're not getting it and you're stuck on one thing. It's annoying to me at that point.

SPEAKER_02 4:29:42

And and I think he wants you to feel that way about it.

SPEAKER_00 4:29:45

Yeah, that's which is like so it kind of works, right? It works if that's their goal. If it's not their goal and they're just their goal was just to have it be funny, I'm like, okay, you dropped it there.

SPEAKER_02 4:29:54

Yeah, I think they want you to be like, I know guys like that. That guy sucks sometimes. You know what I mean? I think the goal was there.

SPEAKER_00 4:29:59

Like your goal is making me want to write you down as my most punchable face. Yes, right? If that is your goal, then you're succeeding.

SPEAKER_02 4:30:06

Yeah, and I and I I often feel like it is on purpose. You know what I mean? Right. Like the annoy they want him to annoy us as much as he's annoying Thor. Yeah. And that all actually kind of works. Like it's like, oh, I kind of get why he's when he's really funny, it's not annoying to anybody. When he's not funny and it is annoying, we're kind of like, we're with you, Thor. It's almost meta in that sense. Yeah. So I that's why it's hard to say it it's at fault.

SPEAKER_04 4:30:31

Yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:30:32

You know? But I just will say now all the jokes land for me, I guess. You know, I you know, I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 4:30:37

Yeah, I agree. All right. Um, pacing, did that held up? Oh, yes.

SPEAKER_02 4:30:42

Yeah, a lot, especially when we get to them escaping. This whole with the planes or the flying through the city there in Sakar making out that is some of the coolest stuff. I love all that stuff. It's really good. Yeah, the pacing holds up. It holds up for sure. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:30:58

Uh, so let's see. Best character moment for you. Uh the best character moment for me. I I have two. So the first one is Hella in the the very beginning part of it, when she destroys Asgard, basically, as the people. She just brutally annihilates them. Great character moment for her. Really shows for us the severity of who she is. You know what I mean? Yeah. And then the second one is Thor deceiving Loki. When he does that little trick of throwing that thing on him, and even Loki appreciates it. He's like, that's a good trick there, brother. Like, that's to me, that's like a okay. That's that's not just a Thor always falling for something or always being deceived. It's like, you know, what's that thing that foomy once, shame on you, foo me twice, shame on me. He's learned from that after uh after this long. And he's like, You're still the god of tricks, basically. So I'm gonna throw this on you. And that's and he leaves him there because obviously he was doing fine by himself, anyways. So I love that. I thought that was a really cool character growth for Thor in particular. Yeah, because it because it goes against the grain of what's always happened. Yeah, it goes against the grain, but also shows that Thor can still love him as a brother, but not be so blinded by that love that he's gonna let he's gonna always be duped into stuff. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 4:32:21

Yeah, it also shows that. He sets boundaries. Yeah, this weird argument people have that they're dumb and thorough down. This isn't a dumb and movie.

SPEAKER_00 4:32:27

Not at all. Actually, this point proves he is not dumb.

SPEAKER_02 4:32:30

This point that he's paying attention to his life in his life.

SPEAKER_00 4:32:33

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 4:32:34

This proves why part of it is I can't quite trust him.

SPEAKER_00 4:32:36

This movie proves that he should be king.

SPEAKER_03 4:32:39

This is his line.

SPEAKER_02 4:32:41

Yeah, which is funny. It's funny. It does prove that he should be, you know, but then as we get to the end, you realize how much he doesn't want to be. Which is further proof he should be.

SPEAKER_00 4:32:50

That's the thing that's that that's one of the things that it speaks to every level in medium, whether it's a movie or in real life. The people who don't want to be, but they either are summoned to be, like what Cyclops says to his son in the X-Men 97 thing, and they're called to it, those are the ones that should be.

SPEAKER_04 4:33:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:33:08

It's not the ones that always want power, it's the ones that don't want that much power. They don't have a choice. They know how to use it then properly. And Thor, this movie is an example of all that, anyways.

SPEAKER_02 4:33:17

Yeah, I like that banner comes back because of Natasha's saying. And I also like the the point break joke that he's like, he's like strongest avenger, and it's like point break.

SPEAKER_03 4:33:30

Damn you, Stark.

SPEAKER_02 4:33:31

Yeah, damn you stark.

SPEAKER_00 4:33:33

Awesome. I love all that stuff. So uh what's your score for act two? I'm gonna give act two a nine out of ten. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 4:33:41

All right, I gave it a ten out of ten. I just gave it the nine because, like I said, sometimes the quark stuff kind of falls short. It doesn't ruin the movie for me, but if I'm just gonna split if I'm gonna look at just how I feel about each act, then I that's it. But because other than that, it's freaking out.

SPEAKER_00 4:33:56

Because from what I remember, the quark stuff doesn't annoy me too much in this movie. It's when we get to Love and Thunder that I start seeing them pushing the envelope a little more.

SPEAKER_02 4:34:04

Yeah, and there's a good argument to be said that maybe they could have been like a few less jokes.

SPEAKER_00 4:34:08

Yes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:34:10

There's only one cork joke I take out of this movie, just take out of it. And that's when he at the end, when Asgard gets destroyed. Oh. We didn't need the little quip he has.

SPEAKER_00 4:34:19

Yeah, we could rebuild the foundation still there. Oh, never mind.

SPEAKER_02 4:34:22

Yeah, I'm like, I get it. I think that takes away it could have been a little special more special.

SPEAKER_00 4:34:27

I was gonna say that feel I feel like when I watched that, that took away that dialogue there, took away from the the emotional gravity, yeah, of what they were all witnessing. Yeah. Because that's a big deal. Asgard gone. That's a big deal.

SPEAKER_02 4:34:42

But that's that's like I said, I don't know if it ruins or anything. It just it just would have maybe taste-wise, but you don't need that joke. Yeah. That's one you could back off on.

SPEAKER_00 4:34:50

Yeah. Alright, guys, so uh let me read act three. We'll get right into it. Thor returns to Asgard, where Hella has fully taken control. Realizing she cannot be defeated directly, Thor embraces the prophecy of Ragnarok, the destruction of Asgard itself. He learns that the source of Hella's power is Asgard, so he sends Loki to summon the fire demon Sirter, who destroys Asgard completely, defeating Hella in the process. Thor accepts that Asgard is not a place, but it's a people, and leads the survivors, including Valkyrie, Loki, and Asgardian citizens, into exile aboard a ship heading toward Earth. Don't get far. Right? No, so true. Alright, so did this ending land well for you?

SPEAKER_02 4:35:38

So the ending is in the very end, right? It does land well. I like that it ends with him being basically King Zor. You know? I like that he's got the eye patch. Um I like that the answer to everything was Asgard being destroyed. Yep. Um plus this movie shows that this is one of the first ones to or at least once in a while that had a high cost to everything. And like I kind of alluded to earlier, there's really no winning in this movie. It's more surviving and realizing what you gotta do to do that.

SPEAKER_04 4:36:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:36:20

Because ultimately they don't win anything. There's no stopping from this happening. It's oh wait, we almost have to let everything fail, and we just need to save as many as guardians as we can. Yeah. And I say that that's interesting because you will all lots of times it'd be easy to say, how do we save Asgard? when it's like, oh no, this time we're getting rid of it. Yeah. And it also goes to that stripping of Sor, you know, rebuilding him into something new. And so it does, I think it lands perfectly for me. This one does, you know.

SPEAKER_00 4:36:51

Yeah. No, I I completely agree. That I love I love for that ending. I correct me if I'm wrong, the climax is a searter being unleashed, right? Yeah. I feel like that's the climax. Yeah, but so the how it ends with him realizing sort of what Loki or I'm sorry, what Odin says to him in the dream or in a vivid. Oh, yeah, we can talk about that. Um that is uh who are you, the god of hammers or the god of thunder? Yeah, you can be like exactly. I love that he's still able to kind of communicate with Odin to a degree because Odin's just in Valhalla and all that stuff. Um is Odin in Valhalla? He didn't die during battle. Well, I think Isn't that what they say?

SPEAKER_02 4:37:34

I think because he's Odin, he gets a pass. I d I believe so. I I don't know. See, the problem is in the MCU terms, he's gonna be there obviously.

SPEAKER_00 4:37:45

Um, in real Viking terms, you know, how does see that's the joke in Love and Thunder when he finds Lady Sif and she's like dying on the battlefield and she says, Let me die and rest in Valhalla, and Thor says to him, You're technically not fighting right now, you won't go to Valhalla, and she says, Oh shit, save me. You know, it's it's a joke, but at the same time, it Yeah, that's true.

SPEAKER_02 4:38:08

Yeah, that's true for her. Because but maybe not for him, though, because I think he's he's ultimately their their he's ultimately God to them. He's their Jesus. So it's kind of like I think his place in Valhalla is set. You know what I'm saying? Like I would have to freshen up on my history of Odin himself. Because there's a whole like his journey of where he how he became, what he became, and why he is what he is.

SPEAKER_00 4:38:35

Because Frigo definitely died during battle.

SPEAKER_04 4:38:38

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 4:38:38

But Odin was just sitting there just saying, I'm anyone who's an Odin fan, you already know that he's messed up. But like, is he in the afterlife? He he should be. If I had my way, I would say he should be. But at the same time, if they're trying to be consistent with how all these warriors die and all that stuff, it's funny though there's I think there's an argument to to how he died and what the consequences were of it.

SPEAKER_02 4:39:04

And why I say that is because like I've watched that show Vikings a lot. I love it on History Channel, and it's an excellent show, perfect show from beginning to end of that whole series. But the way it's described in that through Ragnar, Lofbruck, and all of them, is it's not necessarily that you have to die fighting in battle to get the there's actually different ways to get to Valhalla. You can get to Valhalla by be by being a sacrifice. If if you are chosen, if you volunteer, say, oh someone needs to sacrifice somebody because we're our crop has died this year and we don't know what to do, and it's several years and people are starting to die. It's like no one good way that one big sacrifice to the gods might please them, and it's always a human life.

SPEAKER_00 4:39:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:39:44

And if you volunteer for that, you're going to Valhalla because that's you're doing something for that.

SPEAKER_00 4:39:49

That's the battle you're fighting, basically.

SPEAKER_02 4:39:50

Yeah, in a way, it is battle. That's right. And or if you're a servant to a lord or an earl, it they'll bury, they'll kill you and bury you with their treasure because they believe that you're gonna protect their treasure while they're still alive.

SPEAKER_00 4:40:05

So technically Valhalla with their treasure. Okay, okay. Um, I guess see that. So you're fulfilling your duties.

SPEAKER_02 4:40:11

And if you die of natural causes of being sick, you still go to Valhalla, um, depending on what it is you died from. Now, if it's a wound and you're dying from it, you're going to Valhalla. If you're sick, sometimes they saw certain diseases, depends on what the disease was. Some diseases, the way they manifest, meant a curse and you're not going. Some were diseases of the God. They had different types. They saw if you died of the flu, yeah, it might be like, hey, that's a disease that God that Loden gave you to come to him. Or if you died of something that made you look weird and things start falling apart, that's probably a curse. So it's the way, you know what I mean? Like they have weird ways to do it. But see, the way Ragnar died was he didn't die in battle, but he was a prisoner, and they put him in a cage and then killed him with snakes. And he, but he announced to him that they wanted him to beg for mercy, and he wouldn't. He says, Oh no, I'm not gonna beg for mercy because the Valkyries are gonna come and they're gonna take me, and my sons are gonna come and kill you for killing me. And they're like, Wow, and his place of Valhalla was upheld. Like, so it's like Yeah, so you're you're kind of being true to who you are. Yeah, your best way to go though, your easiest way to Valhalla is dying to battle, though. Yeah, so to them was like, hey, let's go to let's go fight. That's a guarantee. Yeah, I'm gonna eat some mushrooms, so I'm tripping out, and I'm gonna grab some axes and stuff, and I'm gonna go in and just kill until I die. And yeah, I'm going to Valhalla. And of course, to them the mushrooms were actually their way of speaking with the guides, but it really was just getting them super high. Well, this is the guy's the strange, and that's kind of how it worked. They they based a lot of their thoughts around eating mushrooms, which is really wild if you think about it. You'd have these guys, they'd sit there and eat mushrooms and they think they're seeing the future, and they become oracles, and they can they could they paint a third eye on their forehead, and it's and all it is is just high as hell all day. But like, but he's talking to things and he's seeing colors that you gotta think of what if you think it and you don't know what this is, it might be to them. Yeah, this is wow. But see, they also believe that they can go through to different heavens. Like Ragnar believed that he could leave Valhalla when he dies and go visit his good friend in in heaven, because his good friend is a Christian. He just believed that that was true. So they had a lot of weird ways of looking at it of what you know what I'm saying, like so. It's a strange thing. But so yeah, his Odin, yeah, Odin's there because he's Odin for one. For the two, he didn't die in battle, technically. Yeah, you know, spiritually, he was still a Viking, and it was true. He just if if anything, he shouldn't be there because how he treated his kid. Right? Because my god, and and he let Asgard down, like yeah, truthfully. He started a battle with his death. The first thing Thor says when he does get to Valhalla is you, we gotta talk. It's like, what you do that for? Like, because really, I mean, technically by their rules, Hell is gonna be a Valhalla, right?

SPEAKER_00 4:43:02

Mm-hmm. But also, she's Hell, who's the goddess of death, the rules over the the hell realm. So she's so can she go to Valhalla? Yeah, I think so.

SPEAKER_02 4:43:16

So if she dies, she just goes home? Is that what that means? I I'm trying to remember or is she just destroyed? Like see the comic I'm guessing destroyed, right?

SPEAKER_00 4:43:24

The comic version of Hella, and I'll touch upon it now since we're talking about it. She's actually Loki's daughter in the comics, not sister. Yeah, well quote unquote, quote unquote. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, but she is she was bound to hell, but because of her heritage with Yodenheim, where Loki's from, Odin granted her dominion over both Yolhenheim and Hell, and her whole shtick in the comics, of course, is she's being she's bad. Of course she's bad. She's goddess of death, of course. But she takes those that are unworthy for Val Valhalla, and she keeps them in hell. The souls are unworthy. The really bad guys, the don't die in battle type thing, and all that. So there is a there is a fine line. I think the Valhalla, from my understanding, at least from the comics version of it, is you go to Valhalla if you're from if you're fighting on behalf of the good guys type thing. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 4:44:22

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 4:44:22

Whereas if you're bad, Hella gets to take your soul. There's actually one comic line where Steve Rogers goes to hell, and um, I'm trying to remember how it is. I think he promises her his soul if she gets him out. Like he doesn't go to hell from dying, he just physically goes to hell, and like she he's sent there for some reason or whatever, and he meets her and she says, I know all about you, and all this stuff, and she says his whole history and everything. And he says, I need to go and fight the battle that I'm supposed to be fighting right now with my friends or family, whatever. And he says to her, That she says, I can I have the power to get you out of here, but you have to do something for me in return. So he promises her, kind of like a Mephisto thing, you can have my soul if you get me out of here, and I die in battle. He doesn't die, of course. So that part is upheld for Hella's part at least. But I believe that's either in the comic or in a cartoon, it's in some sort of comic line of this.

SPEAKER_01 4:45:33

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 4:45:33

So cool.

SPEAKER_01 4:45:34

I like that.

SPEAKER_00 4:45:35

Anyways, so yeah, uh, yeah, it is ending landed for me. Best moment for me in act three is unleashing Surter.

SPEAKER_02 4:45:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:45:44

I think because it is the climax, but also that is a bold choice, and it looks awesome.

SPEAKER_02 4:45:52

Yeah, I had a couple here. The Surter one wins overall. But I also think the fight on the Rainbow Bridge is freaking epic. One of the cool he comes down and he's just all full on Thor and he's just doing his thing. It's really the music starts playing as this movie is doing its thing and like freaking what's his face. Uh Carl Erdman's character comes out with the guns. And I like that we don't really talked about him, but it's it's just because he's it's just I don't really have a lot to say. I kind of wish there's a more for him, but I like that he was just this guy that went along with it because he doesn't want to die. Then in the end was like earned his way, you know what I mean? I like that. Yeah, and um I also like the thing with Odin. It goes to show me that I this is how I personally I might be wrong, but this is how I take Thor's power in this whole thing, because everyone kind of thinks it's weird that why couldn't he just this and that at certain times? I think Thor's power, we learn in this, just as Thor learns. Because I think Thor ultimately, most of his life, probably thinks a lot of his power still comes from the hammer, even though he still can do electric electricity somebody doesn't have it, but I think he thinks he's powerless without it, right? Um, I think that this movie compliments this though, because we now see that no, the power you are the god of thunder and lightning. You're not the god of hammers. Your hammer is just your weapon that can't do it.

SPEAKER_00 4:47:09

Yeah, yes. Your hammer just helps you focus that power and harness it and wield it. But that doesn't mean you can't do it without it.

SPEAKER_02 4:47:16

We see him mature into the thing that now he can focus it himself. And then you also realize I think Thor's power, it's I think it's power level of it, like the level of power that he has, actually is very much tied into how he is mentally, like mental health-wise. When he's if he's down and out and he's doubting himself, I think his power is weaker. And I think when he's mad and he's and he's confident, his power is strong. I do think that. I think moving on, we see that as well. You know, when he decides to hold the thing open for the star to go through him, and he shows up and give me Thanos, you know, those are like holy shit, you can't stop this guy. No, but when he's fat, throw Cheetos in his belly button, he probably, you know, he probably couldn't start a light bulb. Yeah. Thinking he could, which is why they kind of stopped him from doing the glove. So hey, you're in bad condition for this. Like if his power was just always that powerful, he wouldn't have been in vacation.

SPEAKER_04 4:48:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:48:10

But I think that he, I think his power is definitely linked to how he feels, for sure. You know what I mean? You can't, he's not just always that powerful. Yeah. Like Hulk could be sad, but he could still do whatever the hell he wanted. You know what I mean? It's just Hulk. But I think that with Thor, it's very much so. He's gotta have that's why that Rainbow Bridge is such a great scene because he does accept it and bring it up. But it is cool that he still can't beat Ella. And they realize, shit, we can't beat this, we can't win.

SPEAKER_04 4:48:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:48:36

And it's like, well, I'm gonna cause Ragnarok, which makes the prophecy from or the vision that he saw from Age of Ultron come true.

SPEAKER_04 4:48:45

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_02 4:48:45

The whole you you bring he, I think Heimdahl literally tells him in that vision that you bring Ragnarok. Yep. And he brought Ragnarok. And that's yeah, yep, literally. Yep. It's like, what? It's wild that they just follow through with that.

SPEAKER_00 4:48:58

That was that was cool. It's genius. That was really cool. Compliments at Age of Ultron.

SPEAKER_02 4:49:03

Was those moments that make us think was Age of Ultron better than we thought?

SPEAKER_00 4:49:07

Yep. And then we'll watch it realize we're see, that's that's one of the things the Marvel does really brilliantly is any movies that are not as good or well received for whatever reason, whether structurally or the tone or just anything, any part of it. Future movies can be able to reference it, complement it, and make it where that was necessary to have that duller movie. You know what I mean? So we could give it a lower score, but if it wasn't for um the dark world, we wouldn't have gotten what we got in the endgame. If it wasn't for what happened at Age Voltron, we wouldn't have gotten both Thor and Bruce that we got in this movie. So that same thing with the Mandarin. If we didn't have what we had in Iron Man 3, which I still don't like, but we it wouldn't have made when we got the payoff of the real Mandarin, it would have it tastes so much sweeter now that we got it. That's right. So that Marvel is great at that, which gives me hope for any of their bad movies. We might get three or four movies away from now, and they do either another Captain America movie or something that references Brave New World and be like, okay, I see what you did there, you know.

SPEAKER_02 4:50:17

My biggest fear is we go into Doomsday, and Steve is the one that makes some sort of comment that references Brave New World in a positive way. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:50:26

Well, because there's no way for him to do that. I I there's he doesn't see it. He's never seen Brave New World.

SPEAKER_02 4:50:34

No, but I'm just saying if Steve sees, but if he sees, you know, the new Sue and he because when we go into Doomsday, who's who's Captain America right now? Nancy Mackey is. He's gonna see it and he's uh it's just gonna be like looks good on you.

SPEAKER_04 4:50:48

Yeah, that's it.

SPEAKER_02 4:50:49

And we're gonna be like, no, it doesn't. Stop it. You know it doesn't, it's bad. Because that's how we feel, right? We feel like they fail us in that aspect. Their smartest thing they could do is he hands it to the hands the shield to Steve. I think when he shows up, as Steve shows up in Doomsday in that moment, and they actually meet, he needs to hand that shield to them. They'll be like, We need you, we need Captain America. Like you. Yes. And then we're gonna be like, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what's gonna happen. That should happen. It's happened.

SPEAKER_00 4:51:19

But it should. Uh uh Climax urn, yes. Yep. Your biggest issue, would you say with Act Three? There's only one issue I would say that I had, but it's not card stupid joke at the end, I guess. For me, that is a bad yeah, that is bad. It is minute. See, I can't even say this is my biggest issue because there's no actual confirmation of it. Um It's suggested at the end that both Surter and Hella are dead. Oh yeah. But one, we don't see anyone actually die, so you can't say that. But two, we do know Asgard is gone and Surter's just not there and it blows up. I kind of wish that they were still around.

SPEAKER_02 4:52:03

I agree with the Hella part of it. I think Surter was excited. I think that was his goal. I think he's like wants to just fulfill his prophecy. Yeah, I think he knows it means gone too. Yeah, but that to him that was like if that was the purpose of your life, he wins. Yeah. If anybody won in this, it's Surter. He got the best of the deal. He got to do exactly what he was born to do, which is destroy Asgard.

SPEAKER_00 4:52:24

I just think it'll be for Hella's sake at least, it would be an interesting thing to see her return where she doesn't have that power because Asgard is gone. I agree with you. I think it'd be cool to see her returned. Um not needed to return, but yeah, just to see her return and be like, oh, you are still evil, but you're kind of powerless now because you're the the source of your strength from Asgard is not there anymore.

SPEAKER_02 4:52:48

Yeah, I think that's the two arguments against her not or of her being alive is one, her source of her power is Asgard's gone. So really Helen now would just be a woman. Yep. And secondly, if there's anything that can destroy her, it's the thing that's meant to destroy them, which is Surter.

SPEAKER_04 4:53:05

That's true. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:53:06

So and not just not Surter from the beginning, but Surter mixed with the eternal film.

SPEAKER_00 4:53:11

Does she get cut at at all in this movie?

SPEAKER_02 4:53:13

I think maybe one time in I think Thor and her have some good moments back, but she just it's not, I mean, it just doesn't because I know when she gets stabbed and it's like it doesn't phase her.

SPEAKER_00 4:53:21

Yeah, she got stabbed in the back during that army scene, and she immediately turned around and killed him. And but I think she's still fighting with that sword inside.

SPEAKER_04 4:53:29

She's like, whatever.

SPEAKER_00 4:53:30

Yeah. She's very unstoppable.

SPEAKER_02 4:53:32

She's overpowered with the greatest. But it's good. But she's where her power is.

SPEAKER_04 4:53:37

Exactly. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:53:39

But yeah, I I think if anyone's gonna destroy her though, it's gonna be Surrey.

SPEAKER_04 4:53:42

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 4:53:43

Yeah, I mean, it he hits her. Like, I always thought that it was very common, like he just comes down and we think she just falls in. Oh no, the tip of that sword is her. Like, boom! If you watch at the end of that, you see it's oh, he does it's direct hit. So if he doesn't kill her, it's she took a real big hit from them. One of the most powerful things in her world, yeah, in her universe.

SPEAKER_00 4:54:06

I mean, technically speaking, that doesn't, even though it was that powerful thing, Asgard is still there and she is still that powerful. That it probably didn't, but at the same time, but I think by the time Asgard actually exploded, you're right. I think she exploded with it. Yeah, because that's that is everything for her. Yeah. Who knows? But as of right now, Kate Blanche is not returning.

SPEAKER_02 4:54:29

So we don't mean with some real creative writing, you might be able to do something.

SPEAKER_00 4:54:34

Watch, she's in secret wars and she's with Doom.

SPEAKER_02 4:54:36

Anyways.

SPEAKER_00 4:54:39

Oh okay. Anyways, I don't know about that. But um Magneto just killed it. Yeah, yeah. Throw me your swords, I'll throw them right back.

SPEAKER_03 4:54:52

Just watch it.

SPEAKER_02 4:54:52

The cabinet of him beating off a pocket, like fighting off apocalypse. I think he could, yeah. They're gonna have to they're gonna have to think of a good way of killing Magneto. I agree. Better not be cheap, y'all. I'm telling you right now.

SPEAKER_00 4:55:05

So your score for Act Three. I I'm gonna give it a uh I gave it a 10 out of 10. Yeah, I'm gonna give it a 10 out of 10 as well. Yeah. Alright, post-credit scene. What happens as the Asgardian uh refugee ship travels through space, it's intercepted by a massive vessel belonging to Thanos. This directly sets up the opening for Avengers Affinity War. Post-credit scene is on Sakar, the grandmaster, attempts to calm an angry mob and claims the revolution is over and he was actually part of it. It's a humorous tag to show he may or may not have been um overthrown. We really don't know that part. But um, yeah, how important are they to the MCU? So that first one's mega important.

SPEAKER_02 4:55:51

Yeah. Because it's leading right into a big deal. Yep. Which is also sad to think they went through all that just to have half more of you die.

SPEAKER_00 4:55:59

Yeah, right. And that's that's not enough when the snap happens. Whatever half is left, there's half again. Yeah, it's like what the heck? And there's like three years of guarding this walk. Like, what the heck is going on? Right. Good. Yeah, good news. Yeah. For the Grandmaster part, it's not really that important because there's no payoff yet.

SPEAKER_02 4:56:19

Yeah, you know what? I'm actually sad about that because I think that you couldn't he, I think he can talk his way out of being killed. Yeah. Because he's that, you know, he's that kind of guy. And I'd like to see, and you know what would be smart? Did and if they ever uh do they have the rights to Hulk Maffee again now? It's back to a foliage and they just haven't done nothing yet.

SPEAKER_00 4:56:35

Yeah, as the solo distribution rights. So they could they could do a full Hulk movie, but they cannot release it without universal.

SPEAKER_02 4:56:43

So I think if they're smart, they would start looking into fixing that problem. And your first solo Hulk movie would be a World War Hulk. I know that this touches on that, but I I would argue to say you're in a perfect position at this point to do this with the Hulk. Because A, we're what else can we do with him right now? We're getting kind of like, oh, and B, if he does some bad things in Spider-Man No Way Home, this is a good opportunity for everybody to say maybe he needs to not live here anymore. And he and let that storyline play out from what's that story, yeah. We get a World War Hulk movie where it is just on that planet, then you can have your bay-to-bay reel bill or whatever. We can have a lot of fun stuff. You've got to and we get Jeff Wolfum back. I think that'd be great. I think that'd be a great idea.

SPEAKER_00 4:57:28

They might even have a way of doing it where it's still a Hulk-centric movie, but it's not and I don't want to say this to like scapegoat another character into someone else's supposed to be movie, like they do a Brave New World, but they could do like Avengers World War Hulk, and it's the Avengers keeping Hulk at bay from unleashing hell on Earth or wherever, and he brings Sakar and the Grandmaster and all of them with him type thing. So it's still an Avengers movie, so they they don't they they don't get that distribution trouble, but Hulk is your main guy in the movie.

SPEAKER_02 4:58:03

Because you can't at this point they're tied with Hulk, right? Yeah. Other than let's say they got their all the rights where they don't have to worry about the universal stuff, even then to make a Hulk movie and not have other characters show up is almost impossible.

SPEAKER_00 4:58:15

Well, at this point in the MCU, yeah, you unless you take him to Sakar.

SPEAKER_02 4:58:20

Unless you take him off world. Yes, it's impossible. They all have to show up. Yeah. Somebody does. Yeah. Because he doesn't do that and destroy something, and heroes don't show up. Right? So it's like, to me, the only smart thing to do here is hey, you still got Goldblume out there. Do it, he'll do it. Sakar is still there. Have it let Sakar. We'd love to, I'd love to go back to Sakar and see that stuff. It'd be awesome. And then you're for, you know, yeah, it'd build up to a sweet big Avengers movie like that. That'd be cool. Yeah. See some can you imagine seeing some araxmen on Sakar? I think it'd be some really fun stuff going on here.

SPEAKER_00 4:58:52

I'd love to see kind of like the I think that either this was a Secret Wars or Battle World storyline or something. There is a storyline in the comics, and guys, please comment down below and tell me if what this is that I'm referencing. But there is one where the Grandmaster and his brother, the collector, actually do assemble teams to fight each other just for the just for the hell of it. That's cool. And that could be a part of part of some of that too. Is you get other characters. Yeah. Yeah. But maybe it's like Hulk and his team versus Thor and his team or Captain Marvel and his team or something, and you have to figure out a way to get out of it. And your bad guys are these two brothers that are just they're just using you like a chessboard, basically.

SPEAKER_02 4:59:32

I think there's a spot for Deadpool in Sigar. Oh yeah. I think he'd love that place. Yeah. Like there'd be some funny moments of him just like living it up and his feet up, you know, playing in poker and stuff. And just this is where he comes to chill because it's just like a depriving. You know, it's just like his people. Yeah, his people. Yeah, I think it'd be great.

SPEAKER_00 4:59:50

Yeah. All right. So um hype level, I put a 50% Yeah, because the one really is the big one. Yeah, so I just split everything in half. Score five out of ten for me. Yeah. So agreed. Okay, guys, deep dives. Here we go. So casting and performances. The best performance of the film. This is tough, man.

SPEAKER_02 5:00:12

Um I all I did was weigh it out on the importance of the characters, uh, what their arc was, the most important parts of their arc, the ones that made me excited the most. Uh, I can't think of many people that did bad in this, truthfully, in the long run. But this is the first time I think this is when he's gonna deserve it the most. I'm gonna give it to Chris Hemsworth of Thor. I think that his character had the most character development that needed him to find and stretch those. He needed to find the balance of old Thor to the new Thor at the end and feel like it was fluid and working and made sense for us to accept it. The writing was there for it to be there, but if he didn't do it right, it would have been too weird. And as you get through this movie, he progressively goes from that Viking Thor that's kind of you know pompous and all that crap still, to angry Thor, to I'm kind of getting it, Thor, to look, I understand it, and I'm just kinda I just need to do the right thing, Thor. To I don't know why I can't do this, Thor, to I understand my real power, to holy cow, I'm king. And that's a lot to go through. And I think he sells every minute of it when he does it. There's a thor in the beginning is very different than the thor talking to Loki in the elevator, and the thor talking to Loki in the elevator is very different than the thor at the end with his eye gone, and he's now he's like accepted who he is. I th or at least understands who he is more. Yeah. Because he never really does accept himself for a long time. But like I think that that's there's very different things going on that he needed to nuance-wise do well or wouldn't work. Everyone else, I don't think, had that task. Um the only one that comes close would be Loki, but he's on my list later.

SPEAKER_00 5:02:05

So I completely agree with you. Yeah. Chris Hemsworth, for his performance and the writing of Thor, he Thor had a complete arc, the whole movie, from the beginning to where you meet him at the end. And Chris Hemsworth nailed it from the emotional aspect, the physical aspect, the comedic aspect, everything they gave for him to do. He excelled at every level. He proved that you could do this and make it work. Yeah. And so, yeah, he deserves that that crown for this. He had to work, or the movie wouldn't have. Yeah. Yeah. All right. So uh let's see here. Most surprising performance. Hmm. Do you do you have one? I I have two on the top of my head. Well, really, I actually only have one. The other one, I shouldn't be surprised. I just wrote them down because I wanted to. I put Jeff Goldblum as one of them. I did too. But at the same time, it's how do I say this without any disrespect? It's kind of him playing him in the MCU.

SPEAKER_02 5:03:06

Yeah, it actually kind of works, though.

SPEAKER_00 5:03:08

Yeah. Oh, it's perfect.

SPEAKER_02 5:03:10

He's there, he I'm okay. You know, to compliment what you say, yes, it's him playing him, but there's a menacing side to him that you see every once in a while is kind of mean. That and Jeff Goldboom's not that, at least.

SPEAKER_04 5:03:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:03:23

You know, he but so that if there's any part of the character that is fake or that is hit what he's acting, yeah. There's moments where like he's a he's a mean guy, but his comedy and the delivery and how he's moving and doing his stuff, there it is a lot of just Jeff stuff, which works real well. And it's neat that he's doing some of that music too. Because he like when he's playing the keyboard and all that, it's it's actually him doing that because he plays music, and it's just funny that he like brings to the soundtrack, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 5:03:50

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I I agree. If if he was a little more menacing, I'd see more of his acting chops, I feel like. Yeah, but it's okay. Uh it works because we love him.

SPEAKER_02 5:04:00

Great sad side bad guy. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:04:02

Yeah. Yeah. But the the other person I put was Kate Blanchett. Okay. Because she nailed the evilness, you know. She she was funny when they had those little comedic moments, but mainly she was I there's that that role, she didn't have to do any emotional depth for it. She was just she understood that Hella is just evil, and I'm gonna be evil, and that's it. She nailed it.

SPEAKER_02 5:04:34

Yeah. Yeah, I had a first, second, and third place. And third place was Jeff, uh, second was Hella, and first I'm gonna give it to Loki. And I I did this because this is the first time, um, or not the first time, but this is the final arc of his into becoming a a good guy. Because as we know what happens to him next, you know what I'm saying? Like he's this at this moment or at the end of this movie, they could have easily done this whole what's Loki's final, like last little trick, and it wasn't. He committed, you know what I mean, to the good part of himself. Like this is his transformation, and I and so I gotta give it to him because I think he just played it well, you know.

SPEAKER_00 5:05:14

Yeah. I can see that. All right, weakest performance. Do you have any?

SPEAKER_02 5:05:18

Uh yeah. I I'm not I'm not this is this is a controversial one, right?

SPEAKER_04 5:05:24

Um I'm gonna kind of give it to Heindel. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 5:05:32

I like seeing him not up there just being the guy with the sword. But all he really kind of did was some exposition and some fighting. I don't think we got anything transformative out of him that was like amazing. So I say weakest, even though it's still really good, you know? Um the other part of it I will say is is I do think this is the first time I feel Anthony Hopkins kind of hones in on Odin, and it doesn't feel like there's something missing out of his performance in Odin this time that wasn't missing the other times, and there's there's a certain way about him. I get it they did there's a whole new part of him that we haven't seen, but there's like little aspects about him that he didn't repeat. For some reason, I just felt like oh, that it just worked because it's him. You know, I didn't feel like there was much for him in this, other than these moments. So he gets like a distant second if I had to pick, you know, and be nitpicky. But here's the thing I'm only doing it because I'm holding myself to the fire to pick one. I think everybody does well in this movie. I don't think anybody really falls short, to be honest.

SPEAKER_00 5:06:41

I agree. I agree what you just said right there, because that's hard for me. I left it blank because there wasn't anything that jumped out of me, like, oh, that's really bad. But I agree with your assessments on all of them. Uh Heimdall, cool, he's there, and they gave him more to do. I still think the best moment of Heimdall was in Thor of the Dark World when he did that, and he jumped off and he jumped on that. That was but he didn't do anything like that in this movie.

SPEAKER_02 5:07:07

So awesome. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:07:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:07:09

Some of the action he did in this seemed lacking compared to what it looked like he could do. It was like, you probably could have done a lot more than yeah. It made me wonder if the story had a lot to do with it, but he had it, so I'm not sure what the yeah, I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 5:07:21

Yeah, but I agree. I I feel like everything you said was uh to a T. And yeah, Odin did have this, he had this gravitas about him in the first and second movie that you don't see in this movie. And I get it, his role in this one is simply to die and fade away. Yeah. But I don't know. I feel like he's still Odin. So it's yeah, it's it's I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 5:07:49

But I but I also think that this movie, particularly because it was a role smaller, he just he begged on the fact that if I look like annoying. Gonna care.

SPEAKER_04 5:08:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:08:00

I'm just gonna come out and say my NC Hopkins lines and walk off.

SPEAKER_04 5:08:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:08:04

And it kind of did. You know what I'm saying? This is the first time he felt just more like a guy. I agree. Yeah. So which might compliment it actually a little, but you kind of I do miss that little bit of him that's a little weird. I think maybe we get a little taste of it when he does see so because the line that you're not the god of your god of thunder and lightning, not the god of hammers. A little bit it comes out there, but it's not yeah, not enough.

SPEAKER_04 5:08:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:08:30

Where I feel like if they just would have gave him a I guess part of me thinks he could have got a better send-off.

SPEAKER_04 5:08:37

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 5:08:37

But then once again, I struggle telling if it was meant to be this way, so we don't like him anymore, or if it's it's this way and it's just how we feel about it. That's why I struggle with giving this whole thing a score, because there's a part of me that's just like Anthony Hopkins honed it in, and that's kind of why his death wasn't the most emotional moment, because they didn't quite just go the step they could go with it. Yeah. But then the other part of me is like, they did that on purpose because they want you to go into this going, wow, what a jerk to leave them with this mess. So there's an argument for both because it works either way.

SPEAKER_04 5:09:13

Yeah.

unknown 5:09:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:09:14

So I had to decide which one I want to. I guess it just decides on which one I want to believe. Do I believe that Anthony Hobbit just did it and they fell short on the emotion? Or do I want to believe that they fell short on the emotion because ultimately they want you to realize this awful thing he did?

SPEAKER_00 5:09:28

Yeah. I think I feel like the latter that you said is they purposely didn't give him that much of a thing to do. I agree. Because it's more about what he did in the past that's going to haunt them for the rest of the movie. It's a lot of the unsaid that's the Yes.

SPEAKER_02 5:09:47

Yeah. Which which that changes the score though, right? Because like, well, that's a different dynamic then. That's the hard thing about this movie, is certain things you can easily be like, but this is that, and that's why it's a problem. Yeah, but that problem is okay because it could be because of this. Yeah. Oh, that makes sense too.

SPEAKER_00 5:10:04

This is the first movie I would say where you have a legacy actor that we've well that's one of the things that I've always said on this podcast too, and I think it's true throughout these movies, is that you you get in someone like Anthony Hopkins that gives a little gravitas and validity as an actor, and then they outperform what you think they're gonna do for a superhero movie. Robert Redford's a great case of that. You know, each one of these, especially the earlier movies, had that. This is the first movie, though, where he as a legacy actor is not doing that.

SPEAKER_01 5:10:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:10:35

And I parmu thinks it's intentional. And maybe your legacy actor in this is Kate Blanchett type thing, even though she's not legacy, you know, she's still modern, but she's still a fantastic actress, you know, for a one and done type role. Um, but yeah, I felt that. And I from my understanding of the deleted scene that they didn't use of not deleted scene, the alternate scene of his death, Hella kills him as opposed to him dying and unleashing her. I had because I had to look that up at real quick, and I'm like, wait a minute. Okay, that's what it is. He's a homeless person in New York City, and Hella shows up when they show up and she stab him.

SPEAKER_01 5:11:20

Yeah, I don't like that.

SPEAKER_00 5:11:22

I don't like that either. But I like that she doesn't count until he dies. Yes. Yep. I think for that reason that's a good choice. They redid the whole scene and they did the new scenery change and everything for it because I like I like that that she's only kept at bay because of his existence and power. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Anyways, so I I agree with you on your weakest performances. All right, casting wins and misses. I think Jeff Goldboom's a win.

SPEAKER_02 5:11:46

I think uh Kate Blanchett's a win. Yep. Um, for all the reasons you said. I also think Carl Urban's a win for this small character Scourge that is we're not really we haven't really talked about, but we'll just give it the quick.

SPEAKER_03 5:11:58

I literally wrote those three names.

SPEAKER_02 5:12:00

It's wild. He's perfect. It's he's such a coward.

SPEAKER_03 5:12:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:12:04

And but he's funny. And he's just kind of in to survive. But at the end, he he's like, Oh, I'm not, I'm not gonna go out of this. Well, I'm gonna make sure and yeah, he knows how he wants to go. You know what I mean? Yeah, and I and I I just like him. I just like it. You know, it part of me is like, I kind of wish we had more in him. But then the other part of me is I'm glad we only got so little. What a casting to have such a small part, though.

SPEAKER_00 5:12:28

It's a small part, but sprinkled throughout the whole movie. And what I like about it is it allows his existence as a character there, being there, allows for Hella to give some exposition of her of herself. Yep, yep, yep. When she talks to him about uh, you know, back in my time, we had executioners to execute people and their vision. And I was Odin's executioner. You can be mine. You know, that's really cool. I love that.

SPEAKER_03 5:12:55

Oh my nice sounds good.

SPEAKER_00 5:12:56

Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. He's he, you know what's funny? That that's one of the things you mentioned earlier about this, is that this movie basically is all of each one of these characters in their own way are just fighting to survive throughout this whole movie. His his is no different. He he switches to her side because he knows she won't kill him, but at the same time, he doesn't want to be on her side, but he doesn't want to go against her until he sees a force big enough to go against her, and then he decides, I am gonna go against you, and I this is my part in doing it. And she ultimately does the killing right off the bat because she's Hella, and that's what she's known for at this point. But every one of them is doing this as a way to figure out how do we survive.

SPEAKER_02 5:13:39

Every character is, every character, even Hella.

SPEAKER_00 5:13:42

Yes, yes, she's fighting all of them so she can survive with Asgard intact. That's right. And when she's fighting Surter, that's her trying to survive her power from not being quenched.

SPEAKER_02 5:13:55

Even Jeff Goldblum, his power and what he has over them, this whole idea of controlling everybody and choosing and doing the ultimate choices. Yep. All the stuff it's all about survival. He even shows them when it crashes about survival. Well, he'll say anything. He's a hustler, he'll do anything he can. Like that was part of the revolution, right? Even in that post-credit scene. It's all about it's all about this whole thing's all about surviving something and not. Which actually, if you think about it, the heart of the movie then, oh my god, this just this just made me, I just thought of it now. Is is uh Valkyrie. Because that's her idea. The idea that she survived that thing, yep, is haunting her when they're going through a now again, like, oh my god. Yep. How do you score this movie when you figure out that some of it's so meta that way? Yep. I I've decided. I think I've decided on it right there. Just made me go, that's awesome. How's that not awesome? Like this. I mean, it it's there. They the collation is there, like interesting.

SPEAKER_00 5:14:55

Yeah, all right. So uh this is getting this is getting really exciting, y'all. All right, missed opportunities or wasted potentials.

SPEAKER_02 5:15:02

I'm gonna, for the sake of what we our little argument I had earlier, I think it would have been neat to have another round of Valkyries that have been created and they do get destroyed by her. So if there is another missed opportunity, maybe one more show of her power, yes, I will still stand by. I don't necessarily need it to get it. Yeah. Because I do take what she did to those guys as heaviness, but it would have been a sweet scene. I would give that to you. And I don't think it would hurt the movie, it would have helped it. But it doesn't hurt it with it out there either.

SPEAKER_00 5:15:32

So it's it's incredible. I feel the same way. I feel the same way. That's see, and that's why I I said earlier that that's not that's really a nitpick. The movie is great of the first act, it really is good. It's just that there are some parts where I kept thinking in my head, if they did it this way, it wouldn't have taken away from the rest of it, but it would have either given us an extended Hello Scene since this is the only time we get her, or you know, just maybe tweak Odin's role where he had a little bit more to do.

SPEAKER_02 5:16:03

That's why it's so hard to score. You could you could easily say that's a fault.

SPEAKER_04 5:16:09

Yeah, but it's not a fault.

SPEAKER_02 5:16:11

If it's meant, is it a fault?

SPEAKER_00 5:16:12

If it's meant that to be that way, it's not then, right?

SPEAKER_04 5:16:15

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 5:16:16

It's not like they had to do that to fix a continuity issue in Act One, because Act One is great.

SPEAKER_02 5:16:23

I can't find any problems with it. Like that in a sense.

SPEAKER_00 5:16:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:16:27

Anything that majorly goes on this goes against a lot of same discussion, but we both agreed that's been a problem already. Yes. That at this point we need to let it go because they'd have to go back and fix it, you know.

SPEAKER_00 5:16:37

Yeah. Yeah, it's that it's not that past mistake that's gonna make this one. We're judging this movie on the merits of this movie alone. Well what they already established.

SPEAKER_02 5:16:45

I even gave the argument that back when Hella had it, maybe that was worthy for it. Yes. There was the cause they had was different than there's even a way out of the act.

SPEAKER_00 5:16:54

I really should have gone up from 8.5 to at least a 9, 9.5 for act one. But I did I I I gave it, I'm not gonna go back on that part. But for the whole retrospective of the whole film, it wasn't that consequential to say that is a bad act at all.

SPEAKER_01 5:17:09

Yeah, my God.

SPEAKER_00 5:17:12

Such a hard movie.

SPEAKER_02 5:17:12

I know you've gone up and down three points as we've talked. I know now two, went back up one, what just went back up another point. One like I just I don't know what the hell to do here, Sammy. Yeah I'm gonna give it my gut, my my heart instinct when we get there, but I I think I know now I'm gonna score this whole movie.

SPEAKER_00 5:17:28

I'm almost settled to almost. Oh boy. All right, guys. So uh direction and production. From the direction style to the cinematography to the action quality, the CGI, and the music slash score. What do you think of this whole set? So I'm gonna go with the CGI.

SPEAKER_02 5:17:43

I think the CGI is really good. I love Sakar and the production style of Sakar and all the action there. It looks great. The fight with Hulk, it's some of the best.

SPEAKER_00 5:17:54

Planet Hulk, gladiator Hulk, whatever you want to call him. Really good.

SPEAKER_02 5:18:00

You know, like really good and that's tough.

SPEAKER_00 5:18:02

Yeah, for um, yes, from his helmet to his to Hulk's sweat to his butt. Perfect. Right, yeah. Get nailed.

SPEAKER_02 5:18:10

Yeah, and the action on top of it, the choreography in this is fantastic. Yeah, the hella stuff is awesome. The fight with Hulk and them is awesome. The fight Thor does on the bridge is awesome. Oh, they're all the action in this is fantastic. Um, the cinematography is even better. I like that they made bold choices of like the fact that we got to go, what it looks like to fly through the bifrost. What a choice. Like, to me, that's equivalent to like when we decided to stick with Nightcrawler in Apocalypse, right? Yep. Like we're I am gonna gush about that because you never would have thought someone sat there and said, you know what would be really cool right here? Like when he just takes Xavier, let's actually see what that looks like from his point of view. And we're like, that's kind of and then when we saw it in the movie, I was just like, my mind melted. I'm like, what it was so unexal and good. I thought he'd grab him and just poof and we'd see him. But the fact that we went with him, you're like, ah, it's just like what this is happening. We didn't need that, and you did it. Like to me, that's the same thing with that. The Bifrost, I'm like, whoa, whoa, we're with them, what's going on here? But then that plays out, right? And oh yeah, the fact you can be knocked out of it's wild because you don't even think about that stuff.

SPEAKER_00 5:19:18

And yep, and like you said about the hammer how the surfer battle in the beginning, that's so cool.

SPEAKER_02 5:19:24

Yes, yeah, it's so good. And when you're at the end and you got Hulk fighting the wolf, and the scenes of them down in the water, it looks massive, it's big. You're like, wow, what look at the scale here? And then when surters out and he's huge, and Hulk finds it. They he did well with the scale of what he wanted these to look like. Yeah, I was like, man, because it feels small, and then when they went big, it went big. And dare I say, I think this is the best Asgards looked on screen so far.

SPEAKER_00 5:19:53

Oh, well, well, I want to compliment on this. Yeah, yeah. The little where there, the which is one reason that I think that's why one reason why I would have restructured the first act because you got to stay in Asgard a little longer. But it's okay.

SPEAKER_02 5:20:07

Um But it look it I love I like this as a fight on Rainbow Bridge has always been my favorite part of these movies. Yeah, I love that there's a fight on it.

SPEAKER_00 5:20:15

It's every movie there's a fight on it, actually. It's so there is it's and it's really cool. Yeah. From the first one with Loki to this last one with Hella. It's wow. Yeah, it's awesome. So cool, right? Um the music is a character of its own. Yeah. The music, I mean, it's just he he took a page out of James Gunn. He did bold choices. See, what's playing on our screen right now, all I need is a really cool cinematic scene of that instead of the flashbaggy stuff. It looks good. I'm not complaining. It's the what's on the screen right now, guys, is uh the flashback of Valkyrie fighting Hella a long time ago, and all the other Valkyrie are dead, basically. She's reliving that trauma the Loki's putting her through.

SPEAKER_02 5:20:56

But it's yeah, but you know they utilize the shadow of her antlers in this across the dead bodies. I mean, there's certain things, it's almost like this was pretty perfect, too. Like in its own way, it's really good. In its own way, it really is.

SPEAKER_00 5:21:09

Yeah, it's hard to it's hard, it's so tough. Anyways, but yeah, no, so and that great example of how great the cinematography and the visuals are. That looks like it's ripped out of one of those um uh those graphic books, yeah, graphic novels, I should say. Yeah, it's really, really well done. Um also the other thing I want to point out that it's meant you mentioned it in our history of the film, but the Jack Kirby inspiration that he drew in the Fantastic Four and some of those early comics, the Taika Watiti's vision of putting that specifically on Sakar, or the whole mural behind Loki and the Grandmaster when Hulk and uh Thor are fighting, that literally is ripped out of the comics and it complements Sakar and the design they made for it so well. Yeah, I love that touch, and we get a lot more of that in the Fantastic Four movie because that's literally where it came from. But for this to give a nod to it, that's great. That's fantastic. Good Easter egg for hardcore comic fans, you know? All right, now we're gonna get on to our hot takes.

SPEAKER_02 5:22:20

So I have to tell you, we uh we've kind of already said our hot takes in thora talking. Um, my mine, I'll just over real quick, like, you know, I my hot take of it was it it is a reboot, like a legit reboot. Yeah, it's a stripping of Thor on purpose. And I think that to do such a thing in the middle of a franchise thing that this close to a big Avengers movie, I think they really were kind of like, oh boy, we hope this works. But I think my biggest hot take that I haven't mentioned yet is the big swings that this takes. The one that got too much attention that they're too focused on is the comedy. I don't think that's the biggest swing of the movie. I think it's the only thing you notice first.

SPEAKER_03 5:23:07

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 5:23:08

Definitely. Unfortunately, because it's the thing you notice first, it's the thing that gets the most attention, which is why it's the thing you hear most bitched about, to be honest. But to be honest with you, the comedy in this wasn't as jarring as the choices they made to me. If you took this comedy out of this and they made it serious with still the same stuff that happens, it'd be like, whoa, I can't believe they did this. We'd be looking at it a little differently. It'd be a super dark, serious, really killing these guys, doing this. If you just took the comedy out and wrote it serious, but the same story plays out, it'd be a wild story. I think the swing here was the story, not the comedy.

SPEAKER_00 5:23:52

You just touched upon stuck on it. You just exactly touched upon what mine is, and it's gonna kind of reveal my feelings of this whole movie. My biggest hot take for this is this is the biggest and most successful swing they've done since Captain America Winter Soldier. I'm the same thing and getting rid of shield.

SPEAKER_02 5:24:11

That's right. That's right. This is so good, Sam. You're right.

SPEAKER_00 5:24:14

This is Thor's Winter Soldier.

SPEAKER_02 5:24:17

Like times five, too. But if getting rid of shield was big, yeah, they not only got rid of shield in this, yeah, they put Hulk on, you know, the Hulk stuff alone is I can't believe we did this. Then Asgard's gone, the hangar's gone, they cut his hair, people lose their mind over there. You know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_00 5:24:34

Like well, he goes through a personal. You thought if you thought the Thor story was done from the the childish way he acted in the first film, all the way to you got to the Avengers type thing, he just went through a whole new character evolution, not just in how they wanted the more comedy, the more natural feeling, the more modern touch to him, but also just him as a character. He starts off with this movie with a father and finding out his brother's alive, to all of a sudden he lost his dad, he found out he had a sister, he lost her, he loses his home. He actually explains all this in Infinity War to Rocket. Yeah, all of that that he says there, he you're like, Oh, that sounds like a great movie. This is the movie, and this is amazing.

SPEAKER_02 5:25:18

Yeah, I I will say this, and yeah, yeah. What's even more amazing about that? I'll even add to that, not only is this his biggest arc, the most successful arc, the fastest one, it's still just in the middle of the real arc of him. Because when we look forward, yeah, it's this was successful, so the other half of his arc could be that good. Yes. Because from from Thor, I got the long hair to I found my dad and he's dying. I'm all, you know, as guardian, whatever big princess he can be, right? Yep. To fat Thor becomes Viking Thor fighting Thanos, yep, that's the full arc right there, ladies and gentlemen. That's the full arc right there. That's it, that's big. Actually, I lie. It's not, it still continues to love and thunder. Oh, well, that's the full arc is when he gets his daughter. That's the full arc. That is, it's a date.

SPEAKER_00 5:26:09

And he loses the love of his life. When that you see, just when you think at this movie, he's going, yeah. Yeah, you think it's done. He's he's reached a pinnacle, he's become king, all the somber stuff. He goes through a whole other evolution with finding Jane, reconnecting with her, and then her dying in his arms. Only and you think he's lost literally everything. At that point, he's lost his brother, too. He's lost everything. Then all of a sudden, he gains a daughter. Love and thunder. That is an amazing.

SPEAKER_02 5:26:40

These people at Marvel that kind of took over at a certain point after Age of Ultron, after Sword Dark World, and all that was once we got to Civil War and On scenes, or I would say Winter Soldier and On, I guess would be the best way to put it. But I'll say specifically Civil War and On Winter Soldier was a prelude to do you like that? Wait till you see a bunch more coming. Yeah. But Civil War and On from then, it seems like the creativeness behind it, the decision making, whether it's the directors mixed with the Russo's, mixed with Kevin Feige, probably all four. You know what I mean? Whatever it is, they saw ahead. You went from we're not sure what to do with Sorrow, we need to reboot him, to thank you. Now we know what to do with him for six more movies almost. Yeah. Like how many? This one, the next Infinity War, Endgame, and then Love and Thunder. You gave us more for him to do in all of those movies than you could have even thought of with what you had set up for him.

SPEAKER_00 5:27:36

Yes, and it makes me anticipate his doomsday role because he's he has his own trailer for the doomsday role.

SPEAKER_02 5:27:42

It's in Arusso's hands.

SPEAKER_00 5:27:43

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 5:27:44

Who oversaw this stuff. We know they did.

SPEAKER_00 5:27:45

And for the two-minute trailer we got for that that teaser in front of Avatar of Thor, it looks amazing of Thor.

SPEAKER_03 5:27:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:27:54

Oh my gosh. So when you sit people sit back on their online thing and they're all cool and stuff, and they think they sound pretentious and awesome. When they say they've ruined Thor, they'd gone too far. They brought Thor back to life. Because I'm not saying you couldn't have made another good way like they did the first two. Like you and I said, we I think there is a good movie there, but unfortunately, uh it just wasn't the taste of it wasn't said.

SPEAKER_00 5:28:17

Yeah, there's some missteps, but the it is there, it's just cloudy. Yeah, yeah. This one, oh, it's crystal clear what they did.

SPEAKER_02 5:28:24

They knew that they're gonna make this character someone that's gonna be like I said, I even said this before. If there's any of them that I want to go for longer than any of the others, I want Thor to be one of the oldest Avengers teaching the young ones. I think that I think that leads there personally, you know what I'm saying? Like, I think that would be awesome. Yeah. Or a feat to not just give him the best arc in this movie that you could possibly give, but to set it up for the next I mean, how many movies? Ridiculous amount. Ridiculous amount of stuff.

SPEAKER_04 5:28:56

Yeah. I agree.

SPEAKER_00 5:29:00

Oh guys, now we're getting into some some more of our deep dive here. Uh Answer Fast, don't overthink, best scene of the movie. Yeah, Jesus. I mean there's like three on the top of my head, but I I I feel like I don't know. The the three that's going through my head is Hella versus the army, Thor versus Hulk, and Surter being unleashed. Those three are so well done, respectful in their own, and the brilliance of him, of of deciding this is what we're gonna do with Hella, this is how we're gonna have Hulk and and Thor fight and talk, and then this is how we're gonna end the movie is cause Ragnarok instead of prevent it. It's wow. I don't know what the pick of those three, but those are my three favorites.

SPEAKER_02 5:29:54

Yeah, I I have to tell you, all three of them are fantastic, and they're on the they're on the running up, but the one that's speaking to To me, the most, I just feel like it deserves it, only because I compare it to other moments in the MCU and we would or or moments in any movie that we've watched together and we've kind of looked at each other like that just happened. You know what I'm saying? And I have to tell you, when he sees Odin and Odin gives him the whole speech about the hammer and it, but when he does power up and hits her with that lightning and then jumps down to the bridge and just starts that whole sequence of that fight, it's just you're just like, oh, this is you just want to root. It reminds me of the Guardians hallway scene in Guardians 3. Because when we get there, that's a big scene. Oh my gosh. The last big flight together. That is good. You know, and then it reminds me of the other ones they do in the other Guardians movies of them together doing that. Yeah. It's just like, how do you take away from how awesome that is? You know, it's it's hard to, yeah. I just I I can't take it. I love that. I I buy it. Lots of times you don't buy those character moments, or it's not that you don't buy them, but they're fine, it works. That time was like, yes.

SPEAKER_04 5:31:03

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 5:31:03

And I I'm gonna give it to that for that reason.

SPEAKER_04 5:31:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:31:07

Because the others got all the good reasons to be there. But at that point, even in a re-watching of this, when he jumps down and that music comes out and the imagery of him flying down and the slow motion, and he hits and he just boom, boom, boom, and you know you're just like, this is freaking this is some of the best stuff we ever saw. Yeah, and everybody gets their moment. She comes walking out, starts kicking ass. You know what I'm saying? Like Loki's doing some of the best fighting we see Loki do. I mean, it's just that whole segment, in my opinion, is the the bridge or the fight on on Rainbow Bridge. I'm gonna give it to that scene.

SPEAKER_04 5:31:40

Yeah. Alright, so I'm gonna talk about uh well, least best scene.

SPEAKER_00 5:31:48

I mean it's hard to talk about the least best scene because the this this movie was they they may have moments here or there. I guess maybe some of the jokes didn't land as well as they could have, if you want to say least best scene. But um, and everyone out there on the internet, they're gonna say the least best scene is when Hella kills those three uh Thor companions right there at the beginning. So I I I see that if you're a fan of that, but guys, you have to realize the meta-ness that we talked about of this already is that is literally a great way of getting rid of the old and bringing in the new. So I can't say it's the least best scene, but um least best scene.

SPEAKER_02 5:32:34

So I don't think there's any scene in this that goes by that makes me go, boy, that could just not be there. Um maybe there's a scene I can try to think of off the top of my head. I've had all this time to think of this, guys, and I can't. So I'm gonna be honest with you. Unless I can come up with one before we get to the end, I want us to move on because I don't really have a least best scene. But I guess, you know, because like I was gonna say the scene when Odin dies, because it could have been more, but at the same time, we just got done saying, but I definitely believe they didn't want you to feel the feels there yet. So duh, you know it's not I mean, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:33:15

So I guess you could throw that in there, but it's not, yeah. We'll we'll think we'll ponder that. And if we don't get to it, that means there wasn't one. So some movies can be that way. Like a winter soldier that that had none. Civil War, that never had one.

SPEAKER_02 5:33:31

You had to literally just pick things that were like not as good as other ones, you know. Yeah, yeah, right for the hell of it. I'm just gonna say that one stupid joke at the end. Okay, whatever.

SPEAKER_04 5:33:38

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:33:39

If I had to give an answer, but even then I wouldn't even take that out. Yep. I'd let that have its flavor because I'd like I like Tyka. That's what he wanted us to hear, that's what we heard. Didn't ruin it, could have been more emotional, but whatever. Yep. See, I agree. Like, what the what are we doing here? Like, it's like yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:33:55

Oh, best villain moment. So, hands down, like I said, for one of my favorite scenes, I there's you know what? I'm gonna there's two scenes uh for villain, I guess. How do I how do I say this? They're both involve Hella because she is my favorite villain of this whole movie. Uh and obviously I already talked about the the scene of her versus the army, but I'm gonna give this uh part to her talking to Thor when um she walks up to him, he's on the throne, and the it's not much of a conversation, but it's really good dialogue between the two of them on who their father is, and then oh, you look like dad now when she cuts his eye out and be like, Whoa, this is really good. Yeah, I think they play off each other really well.

SPEAKER_02 5:34:48

Yeah, I I agree with you. For I have three.

SPEAKER_00 5:34:50

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 5:34:51

Um, hers is that one's the first one. The second one is I do like it when she breaks the hammer. I think it's awesome. Oh my god, moment, and it's great. And she's that great look on her face, and that's your introduction. What a great way to name it. At least they didn't do the stupid crap like I always have been familiar about. She just kills some guy. You know, she did something real awesome, you know what I mean? Oh, yeah. And I gave, I wanted to pick a moment for Jeff because he is kind of a side villain. So I thought I'd want to give one of the hit for of his too. And my favorite moment of his is when he zaps that guy and kills himself.

SPEAKER_00 5:35:22

That's his cousin.

SPEAKER_02 5:35:23

Yeah, and it's his cousin. Yeah, and it's it's just how he reacted to how the whole thing, he's just a he's just a skinny. You are pardoned for life.

SPEAKER_03 5:35:31

Yeah, no, be like, oh my gosh. But then when it happens, he's almost kind of like, oh. He's like, oh, I'm stepping in it. You're stepping in it. I love Thor's reaction. He's like, oh my god, this is terrible. It is it just turns into this goo.

SPEAKER_02 5:35:47

Yeah, like so. I like that.

SPEAKER_00 5:35:49

He turns into Sandler Kelly. Almost. Oh, geez. Um, so let's see.

SPEAKER_02 5:35:56

Mouse punchable face. So, yeah, the other uh scavenger there that doesn't like um oh his I know she gets her due, but she she just just punched in the face. She needs it.

SPEAKER_00 5:36:10

I like some of her comedic moments, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:36:12

There are a couple times O'Cor could have used a good punch to the face.

SPEAKER_03 5:36:16

I wrote down Odin. Look what you left your children. I know you're dying, but for goodness like that.

SPEAKER_02 5:36:25

He needs a sock to the face, man.

SPEAKER_00 5:36:27

For goodness, I yeah, I know you're dying, and I'm sorry you are, but this whole time, this whole time you didn't mention this, you could have prevented this, you could have done something else. Over over three movies, we've found three different ways that he's failed then. I I can imagine he gets up the Valhalla, and the first thing the Frigga does is slap him. Yeah. Just to be like, look what you left our son.

SPEAKER_03 5:36:51

It's like, what the heck, dude?

SPEAKER_00 5:36:55

Yeah, yes. Thanks. Our home's gone. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 5:36:58

Thanks, guy.

SPEAKER_00 5:37:01

Anyways, one prop you take home.

SPEAKER_02 5:37:03

Sword's helmet in the battle room. Okay. That's good.

SPEAKER_00 5:37:07

I found one very obscure that you're gonna be like, huh?

SPEAKER_04 5:37:10

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 5:37:10

The uh glass the Loki has when he's sitting with a grandmaster and he walks in. It's this weird, squiggly thing that almost looks like- Yeah, the thing is cool. It almost looks like one of those things you turn them upside down, the bubbles happen, type thing. I'm like, that's a it looks like a martini glass, it's morphed into stuff. Oh that'd be pretty cool. I like that. That's cool. Yeah, I like that. All right, most underrated moment. So I had two. I think I already mentioned one. I'm trying to remember what it is because I didn't write it down, but we as we're talking about, I'm like, yeah, that is an underrated moment. Oh my god. I'm sorry. Rewind back if you want to hear that second one. But the first one I did put down here is and I thought this was weird, but then I looked it up online after I was thinking about it. I'm like, no, this is a legit thing. When Loki disappears on the streets of New York and the card is left, and Thor says Loki, and he he pokes it with his hammerslash umbrella. It you could just write that off as funny, but it reminds me of the story he tells later that when he turns into a snake and he's like, and I love snakes, then all of a sudden he turned back and he stabbed me. I feel like that's like a little nod to it that it could be Loki turning yeah, turning out of a card to stab him again. Yeah, and part of me is like, that's kind of brilliant if that's really what they intended it to be. But I'm like, maybe I'm overthinking this.

SPEAKER_02 5:38:37

No, you're not. I think he's been tricked by him a lot where he so much where he's turned into a card. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, well, yeah. Oh, I think it's 100%. Like he's just he's very aware that this guy does his stuff. Yeah, yeah. My underrated moment was one of your best moments, or one of your favorite moments of one of the other ones, which was Thor knowing that not to trust him and put the thing on his neck. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:39:04

I think don't people pass that by not realizing that that's how smart he's getting to hit. Well, that's that's the thing. You look up online right now, what what would people say is the the worst thing about the movie? And they all say he's acting like a man child, he's too childish, and be like, no, he's not dumb. Yeah, he's learning from all this stuff and he's applying it.

SPEAKER_02 5:39:24

What you're seeing is a Thor who's been hanging out with Earthlings and he's talking like them, acting like them. And the more Thor spends time out of Asgard, the more he brings qualities. Yep, but he particularly likes Earth, you know, Gene on top of it.

SPEAKER_00 5:39:38

Yep, all his Avengers co friends, and how Tony acts, how Steve acts, how he takes a little bit of everything. That's right. I love that. I love that they put that into his character because it's a great ease and justification to reinvent him like they did in here. So, anyways, all right, guys. Uh let's see, most overrated moment. You might you might definitely disagree with me on this, I feel like, but I put for my overrated moment is the get help scene.

SPEAKER_04 5:40:09

Oh.

SPEAKER_00 5:40:09

I like it. I'm not saying I will have taken it out at all, but I feel like that's talked too much, and yeah, it's funny between brothers and all that stuff, and he says good help, and he throws him and all that. I'm like, yeah, that's funny. I did laugh at it, but par me is like you've over. I feel like people out there have overdone it.

SPEAKER_02 5:40:27

Yeah, I I can agree with you on that, then I I struggle with this one because I felt like everything is pretty solid. Yeah, I almost put Hella destroying the hammer.

SPEAKER_00 5:40:37

Oh, that would have definitely but the I see your reason for it though, because of the the worthiness of the hammer. If you if you had a better solid foundation of this freaking hammer, yeah, then it would have more gravitas.

SPEAKER_02 5:40:51

It was gonna be that until I realized we could explain why she had the hammer because that was her meaning then. So damn it. Yeah, you know what I mean? The one thing I thought I had wrong wrong that I could really set on in this, I changed as we did this. So um I I'm gonna just let you have that. I'm gonna agree with you on that one. We'll keep that underrated or overrated, I mean. Yeah. Because I do feel like they don't talk enough about the dynamic of Loki and him in this. And for some reason, the thing they always talk about is, well, the one joke that does really work well is the all gay help joke. When it's like, no, there's a ton of jokes in this that work better than that. And that's just a fun tidbit with these guys. That's it. It's fine, but it's not the highlight of this of their situation.

SPEAKER_00 5:41:32

I was gonna say, and that is a fun brother moment, like I said a moment ago, between two of them, but it's not my favorite brother moment because it's not the one I'm gonna be like, that's why it is the actually. I feel like, and this isn't a diss on this movie, but actually it's more of a support of the movie before this. The best moment between Thor and Loki was that one scene when they're going to find Malakeith with Jane.

SPEAKER_02 5:41:53

I agree.

SPEAKER_00 5:41:54

That is that is very good writing for both the emotional part of it and just the brotherly part when he says, I really loved you, I really mourned for you, all this different stuff.

SPEAKER_02 5:42:04

And I have you oh my god, I can't believe this is a good put a little note there because we'll get there. Let's keep going. I'm gonna bring that, I'm gonna bring that scene. I was gonna bring that scene up. Okay. You brought it up before me, but I gotta tell you, what you just said, wait till you hear what I got to say.

SPEAKER_03 5:42:18

Go ahead. Oh boy, okay. All right, I put no Loki and Thor.

SPEAKER_00 5:42:23

Um, funniest moment. Whoo! So I'm so bad at this. I look at my notes. I wrote three moments in particular, then I never finished it. Okay, I got two. I'm gonna stick with the two. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 5:42:40

I love the scene when he tells a story about the snake. Yeah. He's just he's like, ah, and he stabs me. And I'm just like, I could not stop laughing. It's Chris just does it so well, and it's funny. It's just that's how he tells the story is what makes it so funny. But I gotta give it to Scourge for my funniest moment. And he has two moments, I guess, technically, but it's in the same moment. I love when he tells them the name of the guns. Which I actually had to look it up while we're sitting here because I I forgot how he split up, but he goes, because I even named him, and I would say he goes, Death destroy.

SPEAKER_03 5:43:15

So together they destroy. He goes, Where'd you kid him? He's like someplace called Texas. I was like, Yes. But my stuff. Yeah, my stuff.

SPEAKER_02 5:43:27

That is, I have to tell you that I freaking love that stuff. That is some of the funniest stuff. I think it's some of the funniest I've seen in the MCU so far, to be honest. So yeah, that's good. That's my favorite moment is Scourge With this stuff. But the stink story really had me cracked up. I love how it used to be. Chris just sells that story so funny.

SPEAKER_00 5:43:45

Like the there's one moment of um oh, I forgot his name already on the top of my head. Sorry guys, I I blinked on it. But he uh Chris asks, or Chris, sorry. Thor, um what's the rock guy again? Korg. Korg! I almost like Craig. I don't know why. Korg. Uh Thor asks um I almost said Craig again. Korg. Um I'm messing up with guys. Who's ever fought the this champion? And he says, Oh, uh, Doug. Oh, wait, Doug's dead. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 5:44:24

He said, Doug did. Right, Doug?

SPEAKER_02 5:44:26

Yeah, yeah. He's like, You're new Doug.

SPEAKER_03 5:44:29

Yeah, yeah. Oh, new Doug. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:44:32

Yeah. We could almost go through and say what's the funniest moment for each character, because truthfully, they all have a moment that's pretty freaking fun. Because for his, I do like the ghost thing. I love that he thinks like, well, he's a ghost. It's just a weird thing to say. This is a circle, uh, freaky circle? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:44:49

See, some of those jokes for him does land. It's when he tries to drag on like that that hammer one that I'm like, okay, that's a little too far.

SPEAKER_02 5:44:56

But it's not when when Hawk did the whole fire thing. Yeah, that was great.

SPEAKER_03 5:45:01

Like it's like smoldering fire.

SPEAKER_02 5:45:03

Yeah. Hawk more like, waging fire. Yeah. It's good stuff.

SPEAKER_00 5:45:09

Yeah. Yeah. They all do have a pretty good funny moment there. Uh in in the whole movie. So anyway.

SPEAKER_02 5:45:15

Scourge with that. My stuff. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 5:45:17

Yeah, my stuff destroyed.

SPEAKER_03 5:45:19

Together destroyed. Um the girls are like, whoo!

SPEAKER_04 5:45:26

Great.

SPEAKER_03 5:45:27

What the heck? So only Carl Irvin could do that. Yeah, yeah, it was really good.

SPEAKER_02 5:45:31

Straight face, too.

SPEAKER_03 5:45:33

Most emotional moment. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 5:45:35

This is what we're gonna talk about. It's big. Okay. Well, I really think the most emotional moment in this movie is the conversation between Loki and Thor in the elevator.

unknown 5:45:44

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 5:45:45

So it might not be outwardly emotional, like people crying and and or people being extremely angry. But when Thor gives him this little speech of you're just gonna be who you are, and I'm gonna be who I when when Loki he tells Loki straight up, like, you should stay here. This place is you love it here. You flourish here because this is what you're like. You're just a skeevy SOB, and you're still, but I love you, and I've accepted it. And why I say that is because it's like uh when you go back to that scene you talked about, and it is I loved all that stuff, you know what I mean? This is what made Loki, I think, have the heel turn of going good guy. Because he kind of looks at Thor, and it not only does he take that in. This is how I read it, maybe I'm wrong, guys. I from how I feel this is done. Loki takes that in as a criticism on Hinge himself that oh wow, I am like these people. He's kind of looking around and realizing how backstabby these people are, because they are even to him, he's a little worried about he doesn't want them to know certain things because he knows that they can all be a certain way. It's like, yeah, that's you, dude. You know? But then on top of it, it's almost like when he looks at Thor after Thor says that, Tom Hillson does this thing on his face where you can tell it breaks his heart that his brother thinks that of him. Because the last time they had talk like this, he was telling him how much he loved him. And now he's telling him, Yeah, I just gotta admit this is who you are. It doesn't matter at this point. Yeah. Yeah, I still, you know, we're still I still love you, whatever, blah, blah, blah. But it's not the same as that. So it's like all of a sudden, this hero worship that Hoke Loki is so addicted to, which is why he wants to be, why is all his motivation, he's lost that in Sora forever. Yep. And that evil, or that not evil, but that bad side of him grew up like this in that instant and said, Oh no, what I've done now all this time is make him this is how he's gonna feel.

SPEAKER_04 5:47:51

Yep. Yep.

SPEAKER_02 5:47:54

And like to me, that's like it's just brilliant. It's I believe the turn. Like that Loki and on. Cause then when he does and when he when we do not to get too far ahead, but when we do get into Infinity War and he dies the way he dies, it's it's a hundred percent Loki of a movie ago. Would have would have tried, you know, would have tricked. Yeah. Yep, and try to do something. This one tried to kill San Jose. Yeah. Tried to do something he knew it was gonna be very hard to do. Yeah. And it was like, okay, very earned. I took it in two ways. He took that or three ways, I guess. Loki was kind of, oh, you see me as these Feefi bastards. That's how he sees them. And that's me. And then on then the other way is for sure, he's it's a heartbreaking moment for him when he realizes, oh no, have I actually lost the love of my brother? Like for real. Because he's he's really cool with the idea of thinking, I'm kind of a lost cause, and I've accepted it now. And that's big for him. I think I think it's a I think it's a big moment in this moment. I really do. There's a lot, there's a lot going on there in that little conversation.

SPEAKER_00 5:49:04

Yeah. So I'm gonna give it to that. I am. Yeah. That's you know, that's that's more in-depth than my emotional moment. So I I love yours better. It's great. My emotional mom's on our screen right now of Thor. And it's a great that was almost gonna be mine too. Well, I what I like about it is Thor it he feels like he looks like he's at a crossroads with Odin. Well, well, you know, he's he's basically at the moment, Hella is literally stabbing his back at the moment. Yeah, but he's he's gone inside himself and talking to his father and things like that to to be like, um, I don't know what to do. And his father is like, you know what to do. You're not the god of hammers, you're the guard of thunder. And then he's like, I can't save Asgard. Asgard's a people, it's not a place. And it's it's like he knows really what to do. He just is he's not connecting the dots, and once he starts connecting the dots, his strength starts building up, and he's like, Well, this is what I'm gonna do then, and it just it rains down that lightning, strikes hella.

SPEAKER_02 5:50:12

Yeah, yeah, I think you're picking a great moment because I think that for me is a close second. Yep, and the other depth that I saw in that moment that you're describing, yeah. I think that the deepness that comes with that is that's literally Thor making a decision to let go of trying to make his father proud. I almost look at that scene where he's not necessarily talking old, and it is he is, but I often like talking to himself by I often think it's him escaping into this moment of well, oh I I need my dad because I'm at a spot where this is awful. And I think it's him realizing, you know what? You don't need your dad. I don't need this. And that's yes, that's you know, that's great. Especially with what Odin says, it's almost contradictory to how Odin acted before. Mm-hmm. Because he made he sent him to Earth, it took his hammer away and took his power away, right? To make him learn something. And here he's telling them, you know, you don't even need it, anyways. I think that's Thor saying, I don't need it to be me, to be who I'm gonna be, which is his problem all the way to love and thunder of trying to figure out who he is. Because in this moment, he's no longer gonna let that shadow of his father be the reason he feels the way he is, which is why it's so heavy for him when he does fail later, because now he knows it's on him more so. So when Thanos wins later, he's like even more so depressed because he's like, Maybe I did fail, maybe I do suck. You know what I mean? Because it was had nothing to do with his dad at that point. He took us on himself. And yeah, I think that that I I really do that's how I read that moment, which makes it a very good emotional moment as well. Yeah. 'Cause I kind of take it as it's a representation. Of him thinking what his dad would say to him. That if he would say this to me, I would believe this and feel this. And then he does, which makes him go, you know what? That is true. And he then he goes out and to kick ass on the ramble rage and become more so a story that we know now. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 5:52:18

Yep. So good. It's very good.

SPEAKER_00 5:52:22

Okay. Alright, guys, final scores. Thanks for staying with us, by the way. We're getting to the the reason why you're here to think, or uh not to think, but uh to know what we think of this whole movie that we just talked about. So, out of two, Ike, what's the story for you? Alright, so I'm just gonna have to be honest.

SPEAKER_04 5:52:43

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 5:52:44

This is two. Yes. This is awesome. It's two stories in one. One story could have been easily cookie-cutter and shitty by itself. The other one could have been too wild by itself. Together, it's like the perfect mix.

SPEAKER_00 5:52:57

Yep. Yes. That's a great way of saying it. Yes. Alright, I I'm the same way. Two out of two. Characters. It's a two. They all have some something they go through with this. Yep. I love the fact that they're all surviving this movie. Every one of them is surviving this movie. Even the Hulk, he's surviving being in Sakar and being doing that.

SPEAKER_02 5:53:18

Well, in his eyes, he's surviving from who he was when he was on Earth.

SPEAKER_00 5:53:21

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 5:53:22

He's been in survival this whole time. Yep. Survival mode. Yep. Two for me. Action and visuals. Yeah, uh two. Two. Surter, I think the CGI name. Like I said, when you get to those end battles and you start seeing the scope of them falling down the waterfall and with the wolf, and then Surter, I mean, it just looks awesome. It's some of the best stuff we've seen.

SPEAKER_00 5:53:43

Yeah. And all of Hella's movements. Holy smokes. How they did that. Beautifully blended. Oh good. Yes. Um, emotion and stakes. Stakes are huge. Yes. This movie, the stakes are huge because this if she won and Surter never got there, everybody's in danger. I don't even know how she'd do against Thanos. He'd have to use the Infinity Gauntlet to destroy her. You'd have to. Because she easily would have killed him or worse yet, made a partnership with him.

SPEAKER_02 5:54:11

Yeah, she needed a world-ending event to happen to get rid of her. Yeah. Literally. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, yeah. And the emotion, I think. Oh, I think the two scenes we just talked about for a most emotional meeting. When you look deep into them, and even on the surface, it's there. It's it might not visually make you go, but there's no crime. It doesn't need to be. I think Loki realized two different things in that moment, and that was so huge. And like I said, I do think that that was Thor letting go, finally saying, I'm not gonna live up to my father. I'm not gonna try anymore. Yeah, it's just and it's it freed him of that weight of feeling that to feel confident and kick ass like he does.

SPEAKER_00 5:54:51

Well, and even Valkyrie, her emotional moment of having to relive all that, and that she's has survivor's guilt this whole time. Scourge. Yes. All I mean, they all it's just it's yep. Anyways, yes, yeah, two rewatchability and mcu impact. So the MCU impact, obviously, huge.

SPEAKER_02 5:55:09

It leads us right into you know, in going forward, all these characters, it's all part of it. Yep. So that that's that gets the one and rewatchability. This this is one of those I could watch. Yeah. I mean, I I easily watch this three times. It's it's it's so easy to watch again. It is, it's a great movie to put in when you're doing stuff too. You can look up at your favorite moments. Yep. It's just so many things are different, so I give it a two as well.

SPEAKER_00 5:55:33

There's a yeah, exactly. I completely agree. There are a couple scenes as I'm if I'm puttering around doing stuff, I hear Kate Blanchett say something that's hella y, and I kind of have a half smile. I'm like, oh, that's that's really good. See it in your head. That's really good. Yeah. The Hulk stuff, that's really good. Anyways, yeah, two for me. All right, final scores.

SPEAKER_02 5:55:54

So I had to be honest, guys. And this is like I said, I didn't have any of these filled out because I was gonna do them as we went. And as we went, even towards the end, we even started to dissect a couple things that didn't think about, and even having a conversation about Odin in that scene and getting giving you the local one as I'm saying it. And then every time I think I got some, okay, this is a problem. Oh, we can explain our way out. We can explain the hammer out. Okay, cool. That's not a problem no more. Or maybe the moment with Odin when he dies wasn't taken seriously enough. Well, good, because we don't want you to feel that. We want you to be mad at him because of what he left them. Well, guess what? You did that right too. And it's like, it's just all of it's there. It's all there. Um, dare I say, guys, I'm gonna say it because it just feels right. I think I'm gonna have to give this movie a 10. I think this I don't think there's any other way to do this movie. I the only thing I do is Sam convince me of an added scene that would be good. But once again, without it, it doesn't change the movie at all. I like that this movie's just about survival. I like that they it's really winning is losing in this movie, in a way. She just can't win. That's all it comes down to.

SPEAKER_04 5:57:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:57:07

And you know what? That's so smart to do with a villain. And it's new, and she's a great villain, and it just makes sense. And it puts all and you know, if it didn't set Thor out for some of the best stuff we get later with Thor too, I guess maybe I'd have different thoughts. But the what they did with just him alone in this, I think deserves a 10, let alone using the Hulk the way they did, which is perfect. Valkyrie, I like, I like everybody in it. I was like, I just yeah, guy, if I I'm just gonna give it the 10 because it fits in that category with the best of the MCU. This is peak, in my opinion, of what we we should be wanting to see. If there's any little argument, I guess you could say maybe. No, I'm not even gonna go there because I disagree. Everyone's gonna say maybe the jokes. I can give you for Love and Thunder, I can give you some argument that some jokes are like maybe a couple less. Would have helped the thing. Maybe two pushing, yeah. You know what I'm saying? But I don't feel that way about this movie. Not that's not this one. Love and thunder has a couple extra that make you go, uh you could have backed off a tad, but not this one.

SPEAKER_04 5:58:25

I give it 10.

SPEAKER_00 5:58:27

This is very hard for me to give. I I'm teetering on two scores. I I I view this movie as the I said a moment ago, I view this movie as the winner soldier of the Thor franchise. Because Winner Soldier is just peak Marvel at a time when they didn't have the peakness yet, you know, like they were just getting there, 9.5. So my brain, I really feel like that should have probably been a 10 Winter Soldier, because that was near perfection. But also Civil War, we did give that a 10, and that was perfect. That deserved it. So I'm teetering between 9.5 and 10 for this guy, because I agree with everything that you said.

SPEAKER_02 5:59:13

But I think this is better than Winter Soldier. I mean, really here's uh this would if I were you, because I know you're teetering, and I know I was right there 10 minutes ago. What I think you should do, just close your eyes. 9.7. Yeah, yeah. Think winter soldier, think sore. And think, and then you know what? Take a 10 of ours that we've already done, and just think. Obviously, there's not taken away from Winter Soldier, but there's a couple things in Winter Soldier we can honestly say that's kind of weird, or that's an issue that okay, it's but it's not a big deal. Not a big issue. There's very few in this that we can't justify, if any. But I think Winter Soldier has a couple that we could justify as an issue. No matter how minute and little and nippicky they are, this has got less of them, I think, in my opinion. So I say go with your gut. If you say 9.5, say it. It's cool. It doesn't need to get a 10 just because I said a 10. I'm just saying that's where it is for me. I think it belongs. If I were to pick, if I were to look at the whole canvas of it all, I could re-watch this more than re-watch Winter Soldier as well. And that's part of it as well for me. Because remember, we watched the ability for me is bigger, I would put this in before I put Winter Soldier in again. Not saying I can't watch Winter Soldier again. I could. Hell yeah. If you're like, no, I really okay, cool, whatever. It's still freaking awesome. But this would have me watching it more than Winter Soldier. There's times in Winter Soldier where I can be, okay, I can go do some stuff. This I'd be looking up more often at the moments that are happening. This has too much good stuff. That and I think more characters are handled better in this than they are in Winter Soldier.

SPEAKER_00 6:01:00

Because I remember in Winter Soldier you had a problem with Sharon Carter.

SPEAKER_02 6:01:05

It's just blah. She's blah, the moment's blah, him kissing her was weird. Yeah. Oh, that that's a weird choice. Yeah. You know?

SPEAKER_00 6:01:11

That was in the Civil War.

SPEAKER_02 6:01:13

That and and I think the one thing that really fell short with me is I think less funny Black Widow would have been better. Because the only jokes with her that really worked are the ones that Steve was involved in. But that's only for me. You know what I mean? This is my own personal touch. So But arc-wise, there's not a lot of different arcs in Winter Soldier except for Cap and Bucky.

SPEAKER_00 6:01:36

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I feel like in Winter Soldier is Cap doesn't go through a. How do I say this? Because I don't want to do the service of Captain America, but he I don't see him from the beginning of that movie to the end. The only arc that I see him do is he just remains firm. And this one cool thing about Captain America is he doesn't have too much of character growth arcs. He already is perfect, so he just stays that way, no matter what all the elements around him are gonna be.

SPEAKER_02 6:02:06

Yeah, I think his arc of that is it his arc in that was to prove to us that he is gonna stay that. When he says, I'm not gonna fight you, and till the end, which means even if you kill me, that reaffirmed us as an audience of oh, that's why he's kept right.

SPEAKER_03 6:02:20

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 6:02:20

So that to me makes that his arc, um, which which works, right? But you're talking there's at least five different arcs in this for different characters that are big.

SPEAKER_04 6:02:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:02:31

You know what I'm saying? And and you're talking about a movie that's got three separate villains in it that are awesome. You know, I I'm not trying to talk into a ten. No, I'm not. I'm just weighing this out where really the only villain, and I'm and not don't get me wrong, there's not, it's not that it's bad that there's not a big honcho villain in Captain America, but to organize to have Jeff Goldboom be the guy he is and be a villain, yes, yeah. Sirter, a villain of Asgard itself, and then Hella, I think this is I think it reaches that potential of being. I mean, in in the idea of juggling two types of movies in one, I don't know, I just think technically and stuff, it beats out Winter Soldier.

SPEAKER_04 6:03:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:03:13

But it doesn't quite beat Civil War, that's the thing, but it's as good as Civil War, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_00 6:03:19

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 6:03:20

I agree because we can't go higher than a 10. So let's be honest. If there's any movie that after we've done this retro at this point, I could say this honestly. If I could give Civil War a 12, I would. I might think it when we do our long long run and we have to split these tens up, then it's gonna always roll to the top for a while.

SPEAKER_00 6:03:44

Yeah. I you know, I I agree. And it's not you convincing me, it's just this as I'm trying to think it through and I'm comparing and contrasting and being consistent with my scores and things like that. I am gonna give this its flowers because it deserves it. I do I this is a 10.

SPEAKER_04 6:04:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:04:02

This movie really is a 10 out of 10. There's very little wrong with it, or at least anything that you would think is wrong with it, it doesn't ruin the movie. You know, yeah, it's not something that's a glaring problem where you need to do stuff, do something for it.

SPEAKER_01 6:04:17

Andor it can kind of be explained.

SPEAKER_00 6:04:20

It's just weird.

SPEAKER_01 6:04:21

It's why you want to be.

SPEAKER_00 6:04:22

And I I still I'm I almost would still if I have the if I'm ranking this, it's I would put this as a 10, but it's right there with Winter Soldier for me personally, just because I love Captain America over Thor. But yeah, this is hands down the best Thor iteration of the balance of everything and the story and being able to do three villains in one movie and it work out the way it did that made sense. That great job.

SPEAKER_02 6:04:52

Yeah, and I think the biggest one of the I think all that stuff accumulated with me. But once I really settled on the idea that this movie is, like you've said this before, is really about surviving this rather than preventing something to happen. It's actually the opposite of all of it. Because most of the time it's easy to say, how do we how does everything get back to harmony? That's not what this movie's about. And once again, this is another time in the MCU, like Civil War did, where you end in a spot where things are different now. Like big time consequences are different. Civil War, the Avengers are split up. People are are now outcasts, they are now, you know, they're enemies of the state, right? And that's how it ends. Oh, well, where are we going now? We lose Asgard and half of his people. And and then we get a great post-credit scheme that shows we're gonna lose the other half of his people. Yeah, you know what I mean? Like, so it's like it's like it's there's so much happens in this to me that it it kind of hits it. Yeah, I mean, when we go down through after we're done with this whole thing, guys, and we look and we start the ones that got the same numbers, we're gonna have to put which ones ahead of them. This might be the bottom of the tens. But I think it I think it reached the 10. Like, you know what I mean? I I think it it stepped over there with with a lot of the stuff they were juggling in this. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:06:11

All right, yeah. So the official Godell multiverse score of this movie, guys, is a 10 out of 10. Wow. Yeah. Is there one uh final line you would give? Yeah, dude. Final sentence for the time.

SPEAKER_02 6:06:25

I'll tell you this. I think this is probably, first of all, for one final sentence for people to go watch it. If you like Thor and you really wanted to see a good mix of different stuff, I want you to pull your head out of your butt and go watch this movie and stop giving it the trouble it's got. I know it's actually highly regarded still. I know that it's not one of those that gets the trouble, but I have to tell you, when I've heard people complain about Love and Thunder, I hear them saying, you know, and now it makes me think that Thor Ragnarok set this up and it sucks. And they're not saying the movie sucks, but I think some people do kind of attribute this as the a mistake with Thor now, today. Because back when it came out, yeah, it was it was a hit and people loved it. But we've even seen guys like John and them change their mind on how much they talk.

SPEAKER_00 6:07:12

Well, the problem the the problem that they're doing, and you, if you're watching this, that you're doing with this, is when this movie came out, Ragnarok, everyone loved it. High praise. You get a sequel to it, and you don't like the sequel to the point where now you're blaming the f the film before that for your sequel, which you are getting one thing right. The logical sequel to Ragnarok would be Love and Thunder. The problem is your hatred for Love and Thunder overtakes the logic that you had for Ragnarok, and now you have ruined Ragnarok for yourself, which is not a bad movie. So if you I get it, not everyone's sequels are gonna pan out exactly how you think or plan. And there are faults of Love and Thunder. I am not saying they're not. That movie is not a 10 out of 10, like this one is, but the overhate of Love and Thunder is now trickling into Ragnarok, which is a disservice. Can you imagine if your overhate for brand new world trickled down to Civil War and Winter Soldier? What the heck is wrong with you?

SPEAKER_02 6:08:18

Or God forbid, let's just say, you know, brand new world that sucks so much. Darn stupid end game. Why'd they leave it that way? Yep. That'd be the dumbest thing I've ever heard in my life.

SPEAKER_00 6:08:28

That that would be dumb, but that's exactly what you're doing when you d compare Love and Thunder and Ragnarok to this. So, like my brother said, get your head out of the butt and walk down our Love and Thunder retrospective when we get there in a few weeks.

SPEAKER_02 6:08:44

Yeah, the only other final little thought I'd have to say too is this is probably the hardest and hopefully the last hardest one we've ever had to do because it was so hard to rate. Yeah, yes. It just was because I struggled with wanting to I wanted I wanted to have a problem with this movie just so it wouldn't get a 10 because I felt like this isn't a 10, right? This is not 10, right? I don't remember being a 10, but I just I can't. Yeah, I had to myself right into what I thought I was gonna.

SPEAKER_00 6:09:09

I was just like you. I was going up and down with is this an eight? Oh, I feel like this is a 9.5 because it has to be winner level, winner soldier level. But is it actually higher? I don't know if I want to betray Captain like that. I'm I'm going through all that in my head thinking all this stuff, but it's I I'm I'm settled with my score, 10 out of 10. That is what this movie is. So I hope you guys watch it and maybe have a better view of it now when you're watching it, or at least a new perspective of it.

SPEAKER_04 6:09:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:09:37

After you listen to this or watch this on YouTube.

SPEAKER_04 6:09:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:09:41

All right, Ike, what are we doing next?

SPEAKER_02 6:09:43

So, guys, thanks for joining us with our Thor and getting through. This was a little bit of a longer one. And hey, we actually had something we had to debate this time, which was fun, which actually still ended up in the same place. Right. Um, so next week, guys, we're gonna be uh doing a special branch point uh breakdown of Dead Poets Society. We'll have a special guest. We're we're picking some old movies that we just think are good and we should talk about. And this is a this is one of those I think more people should see. You know, it's an older movie, but good old Robin Williams, so it's gonna be a tough one because he was in our household when I was growing up. I know Sammy's watched a lot of his stuff too, but I remember specifically when I was real little. I mean, it was he was he was the at the time, he was one of those that a movie came out when we were all packed as a family to see it, and it's he just he was in your living room with you, you know, and we all know what's happened to him, so it's gonna be a tough one, but it'll be a fun one to talk about still. And then we're gonna have a retrospective of Black Panther, the first one.

SPEAKER_04 6:10:38

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 6:10:39

Which will be fun. Yeah, that will be a good one. I got some thoughts already. Ready to watch it again and really tone it up so we have good stuff to talk about.

SPEAKER_00 6:10:48

I agree. I've been looking forward to the Black Panther one. Um, gosh, I might even be able to convince mom to be a part of that because that's that is our mom's favorite MCU movie. Oh, is it really? Is Black Panther one. She's she's told me multiple times I turned that on just to be in Wakanda. I'm like, cool. Wow. She loves this movie. So and I think she's gonna be our special guest for our Dead Post Society, I think, right? Yep. So either way, you're gonna see her. So uh thank you for tuning into the Godell Multiverse podcast. Please like, please subscribe. We're on Instagram, we're on Facebook, we're on YouTube, we're on TikTok. Um, please share this with your family, share this with your friends, share this with your enemies. Get us out there, guys. We're on the webs. Yes. And I guess until next time, we're gonna see you at the movies.