I Felt Disconnected From Reality… And No One Knew

In this episode of the TRC Podcast, Monica shares her deeply personal experience of living with depersonalization-derealization disorder (DPDR) — a condition that made her feel disconnected from reality and from the people around her.
Despite being a bright student, Monica struggled silently. She found it difficult to form connections, often feeling misunderstood and alone while dealing with something no one could see.
She also reflects on growing up in an environment where love wasn’t always expressed openly, and how that shaped her relationships and emotional world.
Through her story, we explore what it means to feel present yet distant, to love people but struggle to connect, and the importance of understanding mental health beyond what is visible.
This is a powerful conversation about awareness, identity, and the hidden battles many people face.

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:00

When someone is different, it's easier to label them as having a problem than just accepting the fact that they're just different from you. Yeah. And sometimes they're just better than you and accept it. Crock it! It's a crock it!

SPEAKER_01 0:15

Another day, another episode. My name is Nyambura Mongi and I am Ruth Tengacha. It's fun, it's real, it's honest. It's the TRC podcast.

SPEAKER_02 0:53

It's progress. I've been in the gym for seven months. By June, I'm gonna get a six-pack. By March, I couldn't make it to add an emergency.

SPEAKER_01 1:02

By June. So this is episode four of our high school series. It's amazing. Tunenda tuki songa, tuki songa, tuki songa. We have more episodes coming up. But today we are interviewing another one of our classmates. I know Tulikwa Wenki. Now you've heard her name being dropping on the other episodes. She is a beautiful girl. She is personally the smartest woman I know. She is like Einstein in modern day. She is so freaking smart and we love her. It's Cherokee. Hi Monica.

SPEAKER_02 1:33

How are you? I'm fine. She's so smart that the day we went to buy a laptop. So I remember I told her me just on a blue laptop that is touch screen. And yeah, that's all I had to offer when I went to get like the laptop. So to me pick up the laptop shop. So me, I'm just like, I just need a blue laptop that is small, that is 13 inches. So I mean Zakuangaliya many specs. Wanna puna wey m to a laptop like I have nothing to offer, but I just need a small laptop. So you got like specs, meaning a vanga kwamacho. Yeah. Literally.

SPEAKER_03 1:59

Yeah, Madam Computer Science. That's actually my field. So yeah. Yeah, she's a computer science. Sorry. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:08

So cherov. Nikko for how you doing? How's life? How are you feeling? I feel nice to be here. Can you believe you're on our podcast?

SPEAKER_03 2:17

Yeah, like crazy. Like I was saying, it's been such it's been a concept for a while. I can't believe it's happening. I'm so excited.

SPEAKER_02 2:25

Every time I was calling you at night, Nikyosha Vion Boniki kwambiya. Monica, by June. By June, by March.

SPEAKER_03 2:31

I'm gonna have a podcast. Yeah, something I'm really proud about is the fact that you know you set out what you want to achieve and you put a timeline on it. And by that timeline, it's actually done in one way or another. So I think that's really amazing. Like that go get her spread, it's just amazing.

SPEAKER_01 2:48

In the words of Ruth Tengecha, give down, give sideways, give center. Never give up. Okay, see why it's what we're doing. Okay, so yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:58

So long as you always use them, Nizako.

SPEAKER_01 3:00

Nizako, bro, Nizako, me, I first had them with you. So Cherov, we'll be doing we'll be doing a high school series. Again, we were classmates with her, same high school, same hell that we went through, same four years. And uh personally, I've known you since for one to look at the same class what north. Then you we joined Ruth into South. Yeah, look at Eastman, then we came to know each other in South. So that's nine years of knowing you. That's crazy. It's like almost a decade. That's absolutely true.

SPEAKER_03 3:30

Next year we should do like an anniversary thing. I know, right? Yeah, that's true.

SPEAKER_02 3:36

When we're in high school, by the way, because I joined like we came to each other in form two, but we weren't really close until after high school. Yeah, I used to watch you, Monica. Used to be like this girl is so smart. I used to have a friend crash on. I was like, How can I be her friend? Hello! And you're just too cool for me. I was just like, I used to take a cobistea. Because I made us 48 maths, zero, so really would she even want to do anything with it?

SPEAKER_01 3:57

No, I know. I remember Kuna time our math teacher at Care Form 4. We used to do like Friday quizzes at lunchtime and whatever. Then he brought back our exercise books and he like he was reading out what you've gotten in the card. And it was like it was like Cherov, it was out of 30, and you have you had like a 28, I think. Then SCJ, our twenty name becomes a math now. This one 28, Sherov 28, this one 27. Then I remember Caroline 0. Ruth and request Jina 5.

SPEAKER_03 4:30

You were lying.

SPEAKER_01 4:32

So math, nafanya minus na plus. That's all that's all you need. It's enough you need. That's all we need. And I remember being in form one. My first memory of Cherop is we were in one north together, and of course, like near the first few weeks, so we don't really know each other like that. And then I remember I don't I don't think I don't know whether it was you who brought it, I don't know how, but it was brought up somehow that you were one of the top KCP candidates in your county. And I remember thinking, damn, I am I am nothing in this case. I am nothing in this class. Like kulukwa no uy uyalukwa gazette, uy, uukwa kwa gazette. Yeah, uyalukwa kwa gazeti mungina mungine. And I was like, Mimi, I was nowhere. That's why I remember thinking, damn, I was the smartest, but Sasani mepatana na tua kwa na kili ile ukueli.

SPEAKER_02 5:21

And I just like to say that she was a top in her primary class. She was a top in KCSC. She was had first class in Strathmore University when we're together. So really, you just shine everywhere you go. Yeah. I was always I always tell her if I was your mother. Yo, I would be coming anything. Maybe music. And she was even in France. Yeah, accent. No.

SPEAKER_01 5:43

Nani yambia Nini. My daughter is a computer scientist. You know what? That's why God didn't make us your mother. Tungeringasana.

SPEAKER_03 5:50

Oh yeah. I think like what's interesting about this is that there's the perspective of how people see me. It's very interesting to like listen to like, is that me? And then there's just who I am as a person. Like, I mean, never would I feel like I'm too cool to be your friend. I don't even care what you get in my own. Because like most of those things that you probably thought I cared about, I did not. I still do not. Yeah. And also, like, as much as I feel like sometimes people think I'm this smart person, I'm this person who, you know, always achieves these great things. I just feel like I'm just a person. Yeah. And I also like fail. I also have my insecurities. I also have times where I feel like I'm not achieving enough. Actually, a lot of times where I also feel like, you know, maybe I'm not smart enough. So that could never be the truth.

SPEAKER_01 6:42

That could never be the truth. It's okay to be self-conscious sometimes, but that's a lie. I'll just tell you right here, right now. But I what I loved about Cherop in high school was yes, there was a group of like quote-unquote smart people and whatever. Because our teachers used to categorize us as smart average hour and as a side car, our ngine good for nothing, stupid people. It's okay. So with Cherop, it was very different because you were the one smart person who didn't care about categorizing the rest of us in that way. And I remember you were always so willing to help, like so, so like you would you would take time out of your day, out of your schedule, to help to help someone like me with math and physics and all of that. And what made me realize you were different is there was a time, I think I was in form two, and I had sit at Nilikwa Ketikwa Church table. We said this in another episode, and there were a group of three girls, some of the smartest in the class, who were pumbele, and they were like discussing something with her, and it was morning prep, so it's like 5 a.m. So I was started dozing off. Typically, everyone dozed off, right? So I started dozing off like you. Yeah, I started dozing off. And I remember like illegal doze off the nunamka. I looked up, and these three girls were looking at me and they're looking at me, and uh I smiled at them because that's my first, you know, Susan Tokombian. So I smiled at them, and then the one girl, her name starts with a B, but she said she told me, like, eh, that can never like your something to the to the end of your parents must be okay, like being disappointed in you. Like I would never sleep because of a fail. Yeah, like my mother, I would never sleep, like my mother can't be disappointed. Your parents must be so okay being disappointed with you. And I remember thinking, oh my god, that's so mean. Yeah. But then you go to Cherob and she tells you, No, you can do this. You can do the mathematics, it's not hard. She'll explain it 68 times until you get it. So that that really meant a lot because you are one of the people where it didn't feel like, uh, we are this idea. And it's like they explain to you in a rush, Ilea. I know you won't get it anyway, so I don't know why I'm wasting my time with you. But with you, it was you're gonna spend the whole prep explaining to me two questions and you'll be okay with it.

SPEAKER_03 9:03

Yeah, I think I think at that time, as much as maybe people thought like I was smart, I didn't think I was smart. I felt like I really worked hard. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I w like I'd go over the problems, I'd go over them again. I don't know. I feel like it was I just felt like I put a lot of effort into coming into my own understanding. So, like helping someone else, you know, I could put myself in their shoe and just see where they're coming from because I didn't think that you know I'm just naturally smart, I'm just really good at this. It's more of I really, really try and then I get it. So I can help someone also get it if they're also like trying. So that was like my perspective of it. But also, I think I've always been very skeptical about the education system in Kenya, and also maybe me against the world, like the the metrics we use to define smart or intelligence, they're just very narrow. Like um, people are smart in different ways, in different fields. There's just a bit of um natural inclination to certain things, yeah. So, like there are things that you are extremely good at that I could never be good at. Like, even the laptop thing, I can help Ruth decide, you know, these are the specs of the laptop, these are the but when it comes to like you know having an entrepreneurial spirit, bringing network networking, taking all that, taking risks, I could never be like Ruth. You get yeah, so you know, like trying to get very different people, like very different individuals, and you're trying to evaluate them on like very, very similar metrics, it's just very backward. And also, like now to the education system of Kenya itself, it's really more about memory, yeah, and maybe just being um first learner. Yeah, because I think there are people who get things very quickly, but they do not get them quite deeply. Yeah, and also um, and also when it comes to the memory thing, like there's no it doesn't give you room for creativity, for inventiveness, for you know, like to shine in different ways. So yeah, I don't like never I don't think any anyone who's in high school and you're probably not performing well in the standard subjects, please do not feel like you're not smart. Can I just tell you something?

SPEAKER_02 11:20

I'm discouraging people in school. Me, I got a D in case you've seen math. I had like I got D D D grade D like D D for dog in case you're seeing math. It has never stopped me from being the person that I am today. So sometimes I feel like when people are in high school, I'm not saying don't work hard. Me, I worked at Vectors in Shinda. I just couldn't do it. I could I could I didn't know how to do it. I could I had nothing to give in vectors, I had nothing to give in the car is at 20 kilometers, the other car is at 40 kilometers. I don't even know how to drive. It's gonna get a connection. So I had nothing to give, basically. But all I can say is just work on your strengths, the things that you're strong at. I remember when I was in Strath, one lecturer who used to be my very good friend used to tell me it's easier to work on your strengths than to work on your weaknesses. Like sharpen your strengths, forget about the weaknesses. Like the weaknesses, you can work on them until they also become your strength. But something that you're so good at, like we're so good at speaking, we laugh all the time when we're on call. Yeah, let's try and make money out of that. You know what I mean? So don't put yourself down so much because we're leaving mats or whatever. One thing I've come to understand life does continue. The people who scored zeros in KCC and they are doing big things in the world, that may not be your talent. There are other talents everywhere. I feel like the as you said, the education system fails. It can't be at just because you are you don't get an A, then you're not smart enough. So, Monica, I have a question for you. Because you've always been a very smart girl, that's established, like wewe nim to muerevo, and that's okay, you can accept it. It's who you represent. Yeah, has it always pressured you to be because everyone is always expecting you to be the best at everything? So, for example, like in school, how was it for you in high school? Even how did the teachers treat you? How did the students teach you? We want to hear the perspective of a smart person just scares the kennel so that I can scare a smart person.

SPEAKER_03 13:02

Yes, I'm calling a fala. I will not I will not watch you. I will not watch you. But we've said like you're smart in other things, yes, maybe not the math. Uh, I think it was just a lot of pressure. Oh my god, like too much pressure. But most of that pressure, it wasn't really about like you know, it wasn't really external for me. It was just internal, yeah. Because all my schooling, like when I was in primary school, you know, like you're used to being the top student, like there's no day you are ever not number one, you get so I remember actually when we got to high school, the first term of high school, and then we did the first cut, and then the results were coming back, and yes, I had a zero three in math to cut one. Really? Yes, yes, I was in one north, I don't remember this. I I did maybe I didn't show you, but I did like I did so bad in that cut one, like not even just math, I did bad in physics, I did bad in chemistry because I think when when you're in primary school, you do well, but it's not like you work hard. I don't know, it's multiple choices.

SPEAKER_02 14:09

Because I also remember like in my kwa na putanga, every kuja high school. Yay!

SPEAKER_03 14:14

Yeah now so like when we did that first exam, I was like, dang, whose results are these? Like, are these mine? Yeah, so it was like shock and also just like this massive, massive disappointment in myself. So after that, I was like, you know, I can't let this happen. So um, you know, so and also like the school where I came from. I came from a school that you know hadn't like done well initially. It was yeah, like it was quite it wasn't like the top schools in the country, it was just like no one in that school had actually gotten a 400 before, yeah. So it just feels it's like the pressure of you know, so I did well, and these people really believe in me. Like, I have so many people who are vouching for me, who like want me to succeed, who want me to do well, who believe like I'm brilliant, but then these results I'm getting, they do not actually reflect that. So after that, I started working really hard, like crazy hard, to a point that I don't think I did m a lot for my high school life. It was just always like studying, studying, studying. I didn't like invest so much in friendships. Yeah, I um I also didn't go out a lot, didn't yeah. I just feel like the pressure to just always do well because now now after you've done well, everyone now expects you to keep doing well, like the teachers, your classmates, your parents. Yeah, so I was always just studying and studying, and I feel like this kind of affected my development, you know, overall development as a person because you know, you're more than just what you know or what you crammed or like one grade, you're supposed to be a social being, you're supposed to be, you know, interact with people, go for funkies, meet some boys, like you know, just be a teenager. And I think that's something our school system doesn't give room for to just really grow holistically as a person. Yeah, and it's so weird, like every school when you read that tagline, holistic development of the students, you know, it's not that way, like it's just one dimension. Are you doing well in your exams that mostly you crammed for?

SPEAKER_01 16:21

Yeah, so do you think it ever got to a point where it was unhealthy? Because to the teachers, you were the epitome of the of a best student. So it was always about you know, Cherop was first to come to class, she's the last to leave class, she's like do this like Cherop, ni ni ni ni ni.

SPEAKER_02 16:38

And I guessangapi.

SPEAKER_03 16:40

Did you ever sleep first or I used to wake up at 3 57 a.m. every day. Sleep at too? Uh I think eleven or seven. I have a thing with seven. So you slept at eleven or seven p.m. and then I'd be out I'd be up at three fifty-seven a.m. Yeah, that's why that's crazy. It's not by that's crazy. Because just like too much internal pressure. Yeah. That pressure wasn't actually good for me because um I think in my second year of high school, I think the second semester, I actually got diagnosed with DPDR. It's like a depersonalization, derealization disorder. So it's a thing where reality becomes sort of elusive. Yeah, like yeah, it's just a mental issue, like you're not really in touch with reality. Everything feels like surreal in a way, like you're just not there in the moment. And for me, it was quite a struggle because I just felt like um losing a hold of myself, but then I was just in my second year, second term of high school. I need to make it to like the fourth year of high school, so it was like I don't know, it took all the life out of me. I don't think I've ever struggled with something that much because it's something that you're in every day, every minute, every second. You feel like everyone else is living, they're just in life, yeah, living the life, but you're sort of like not in the life. Yeah, there's a distance between you and how you're embedded in reality. So it's you know, it almost sometimes feels like you're you're sort of alive, but you're kind of dead in a certain way because it's like you're living in a 24-7 day job.

SPEAKER_01 18:26

Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 18:27

That's how do you know that?

SPEAKER_01 18:28

Because I learned about it in school.

SPEAKER_03 18:30

Because most people don't know about it because you did psychology, yeah. So it was like it was a massive struggle, and I think sometimes it got me really depressed, it got me really sad, and being the fact that I wasn't really talkative, I think if I was like close to people, it would have been easy to manage, yeah. But then I didn't talk to people that much, it was just you know, me and my struggle, and you know, trying to like keep who I am, like you know, perform well, do well. Everyone has these expectations of you, you have these expectations of yourself. So I feel like that was one of the worst periods of my life, and if I was taken back in time, I would do it like much differently. Yeah, I'd just be a teenager out and you're sleeping and you do all that. Just through stuff because I realized you don't even have to get an A, you do not, you just need to like whatever course you want to do or set of courses you wanna do, just meet the burst mark. You're good, like you're actually good. Yeah, if you know a B can get into you into hospitality, just it's fine while you're struggling to get an A. Like, just do whatever like um enables you to like move forward in the next chapter of your life because after that you'll realize like this didn't even matter that much. Actually, it didn't matter almost at all. There's a longer way to go.

SPEAKER_01 19:56

And you've spoken about how like you you were not talkative, you really weren't. Yeah, yeah, you just kept to yourself most of the time. But there were people who I think staying from the outside because I also had a friend crush on you. Oh, you all had a crush on me so nice. Do you think there are friendships that you could have formed that would have been beneficial?

SPEAKER_03 20:18

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think uh to some degree, I think I did hurt some people who really tried being my friends because I you know, like I didn't I I didn't like didn't care about socialization that much. Like it didn't matter to like how's your friend doing, how's your friend feeling, what's your friend up to, what's your friend struggling with? So I wasn't like attuned in that way at all. So Monica, I just like to say something okay.

SPEAKER_02 20:46

You hurt me a lot of times as your friend, but you push me away. I call you, you ignore my calls.

SPEAKER_03 20:55

No, actually, it's not really like that. I just have this thing where I don't know, internally I have like a whole universe going on here, and most of the things that are going on, I do care about people, I do love people deeply. Because sometimes when I feel like I've hurt you, I'm just like I'm just killing my head. Yeah, you don't feel like oh god, please. If she ever stops, sometimes I'm like, if she ever stops talking to me, what am I gonna do? Yeah, I'm never gonna stop talking.

SPEAKER_02 21:25

Like, what am I gonna do with myself?

SPEAKER_03 21:27

Like I I I have a way where I do love people deeply, deeply. I do care about them very, very deeply. It's just that I don't know, like I didn't grow up in an environment where like you constantly express it, yeah, or you know, like so there's one that that's one factor. Like my growing up wasn't in a touchy feely way in any way at all. It was just, you know, like, are you doing well? Yeah or all that, like it wasn't like that sort of attuned environment. And Another thing is um I don't know like I'm I'm a bit obsessive about like my internal world. So I have it's weird, like I have things I think about, you know, maybe science, ideas, you know, maybe the field that I'm very interested in currently. So I'm always like reading about it, thinking about it, and I feel like sometimes I get consumed into that world so much that I sort of like lose touch with the outside world. And then also I think the third and final thing is that you know, I didn't really grow up with close relationships, close friendships, or close so it's something that I'm still learning to do.

SPEAKER_01 22:43

And I think that's the important thing we do challenge you in that aspect. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We do like come on judge, we will get mad, get mad at you, and then you'll feel hurt, and then you'll realize, oh my gosh, I really don't want to lose tenge in my life, type of thing. Yeah, yeah. And I think it's something that Utenda to Kilan with time because I think with our friendship we do understand you a lot, so it's never uh really uh thinking of oh my god, she probably hates us or stuff.

SPEAKER_03 23:12

Yeah, and I and I always know when you're mad at even when you don't tell me you know it's passive aggressive, but I'm not passive. Well, you're not passive aggressive, yeah. I just know when you are like kind of mad at me. My feelings by friendship when I'm gonna patient. But sometimes I think we we've had this conversation before, and I was also like saying, I feel like I also try.

SPEAKER_02 23:37

Yeah, no, no, no, no, no. I see that you try, Monica, and from from even the point where I was being friends like after like in strath. You know we used to tell each other when we're in strath, I will call you, and that is just like I used to feel like you don't want to be my friend. So I mean, I always saw it. I'll call you alcohol, then I get scared. Then I'll call you alcohol, then I get scared. Then I was just like, you know what? I'm just gonna do it. I'm gonna do the thing I'm scared of. And the more we built the friendship, even the more that I came to your place, I saw your siblings, I told you about my own family, and I even told you about my experiences. I remember every time that I would uh before because the only people who used to know about the things that were going on with me at home was Megan and Celine.

SPEAKER_03 24:10

So the first time I told Karosh was like, and then I told you you are like Do you remember this time after your mom pressed away when you're staying in Gong? I think I came to visit you when I was in was it form two or form three?

SPEAKER_02 24:25

I can't remember, but I remember you did come to a lady you're also in Gong. Yeah, that was the first time that I'd actually had a friend over at home because I remember when I was a young child, me n kwa nakanga tu pekeango, because my brother would go to be with his friends also with my sister. So nakanga home pekyango. So this was the first time that someone was seeing me. You say, like pisswan on a kananga, like nkwa tu akathing there. So a friend has come to my house.

SPEAKER_03 24:47

So this was I I feel like even though you had a friendship crash on me, I we were kind of friends because I remember there were times where single, like you know, you remember singing practice, and then we'd be like at the back there, just you and me, and we'd like be talking about things. We were we weren't just like there was no consistency, but I just feel like I always felt like we were friends.

SPEAKER_02 25:10

I bet you as I've told you, I felt like you would not want to be my friend because he's pan upitag. No, I would never, I would never anyway. Enough of the emotions. Yes. I have a question for you, Monica. Yes, what was one painful thing that you remember that maybe a teacher or a student did to you that has remained in your mind up to now?

SPEAKER_03 25:32

That's one painful thing. Did or said, did or said I'm like trying to remember. I don't know, like why does it feel like there's nothing too fit? No, not that I was okay, it's just that I didn't care about people like that. Like you could shit say shit about me, but I just don't give a f yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:56

So I feel like you are outside the bubble, even when drama was happening, it was like drama lecture.

SPEAKER_03 26:01

What drama is happening? So like sometimes I'd hear stories and I'm like, wait, when did that happen? When did that happen? And sometimes it would be like stories involving people are just sitting next to me or like near me. And I'm like, why was I not seeing this? Yeah. So um then out of the time. I'm trying to juggle my memory and really I don't think I don't think like there is anything anywhere. Maybe people said heartful things, yeah, but I don't remember like taking restoring them or keeping them to heart. You know, I was already struggling with the DPD. Like I'm just trying to exist in reality, get a hold of reality. So um, I think the rest of everything, it just didn't matter that much to me. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:46

So like I just want to know the cherub we have right now and the cherub we had in 2 South Three South Four South, those are two different girls. So from your perspective, like how different are you from the girl you were in high school?

SPEAKER_03 27:01

I'm like a hundred percent different. Um, I think that time I was just like I was just a girl, like a child, maybe even because I saw life from a very rigid lens, where you just you know, you're just it's like you're a robot that's supposed to just perform well in school, yeah. And after that you're you're good. Like I think to a degree my value as a person had really been tied to like my performance, my performance. Yeah, so but right now it's not like that. Like I've gone through a lot of life. I mean, I've had like now real friendships, I've had like relationships, I've like um gone through very adverse, not adverse experiences, but I've like life as like I've gone through my own first challenges of life in life. So, like to a degree, I think I'm more of a well-rounded person in that sense, and also yeah, I think maybe more grounded than I was during that time.

SPEAKER_02 28:00

Okay, I have a question. Do you think that high school prepared you for real life or do you think it failed you?

SPEAKER_03 28:06

High school was a bubble. I don't think it prepared me for real life at all.

SPEAKER_02 28:12

Why did nobody tell me there's taxis? Why did nobody tell me there's carrying? Why did nobody tell me they could take you to court? Told me that I need to learn that a car is moving at 40 kilometers and another one is moving a swimming pool.

SPEAKER_01 28:24

Yeah, why did nobody tell me 15 minutes after another bell?

SPEAKER_03 28:28

Oh my god, like through yeah, uh high school, and I think that's like a failure of maybe the education system or maybe even some schools, because I was comparing my high school to my primary school life. I was actually talking about this with my sister last week, and we were both saying that primary school was epic, at least my final years of primary school. So the school I was in it was very um, it was very westernized in a way. So we had all this, you know, like the I I was in modern dance. I was playing, I was in the football team, I was even in the athletics team, like I even competed in like the county marathons. I was number last though, out of like 200 people. But you get like participation. I was very outgoing as a person, and our teachers were so friendly, like sometimes we'd just be dancing all over us in class, we'd be cleaning together. So I think that was like prime environment for like for a person to develop just fully because you're just really exploring who you are as a person, but in high school, you're just exploring your memory, yeah. How well you can cram things and everything. So, yeah, no.

SPEAKER_01 29:39

But I remember in high school you also used to do the runs and you played a bit of football, even if it wasn't like big in our school. Can I just play football?

SPEAKER_02 29:48

There's a time when we're in high school, Monica would go run to the field at random times of the day, like when it's not allowed. And me, I used to be like, I'm I'm not judging you, I used to be like, this is so unfair. Me to be like, you know, number one. Let me just try it. Let me try it to go run just try in the field at 2 a.m. on Sunday. Yeah, they'll finish me.

SPEAKER_01 30:07

You literally used to change into your kids at like a random time and you just go run. And I remember there's a time you told me, like, I just want to go clear my head. And you would run okay, nail when you but you would run literally until doing that until right now.

SPEAKER_03 30:22

Yeah, and but also something about my life, whether I was doing well or not, I've always been a bit stubborn when it comes to like conforming, like you know, to the rules, to the institution or anything. Yeah, so it's just been like all my life. It's not something that I can see was just in high school because I remember when I was in primary school, sometimes my parents used to be called to school, like, your daughter was rude to teach Ali Rushia Mwali Mongon. And it's not even my mom, my mom knows I'm very stubborn. Like, you can't if I don't want to do it, or if I don't agree with you, then I'm not gonna do it. And I just hated how high school we were just supposed to be like sheep, you all wake up at the same time, you all tie your hair with a shoeless. With a shoeless, again, you all like do things I don't know, and like when you think about the values they were trying to teach us in school, about you know, like being good people, being responsible citizens, being like um fair to the people around you, or you know, like there were these expectations. You're the you're a girl from this school, so a girl from this school is supposed to act in this way. But how if that environment does not nurture anyway?

SPEAKER_02 31:40

I remember this it's it's a laughable experience, really. Like so it you know how girls after they leave this school they are doing well. Do you know how girls people always say like they came from PB, liar, liar, pass on fire?

SPEAKER_03 31:54

Yeah, because you you're you're like you're raising me in a way that I'm not allowed to question. Yeah, I'm not allowed to be like an individual, like to have my own personal views, to have my own personal way of doing things, to have my own personal perspective. Um, but somehow, somehow, you expect me to be that person who can speak their mind, who can like um who is just so very singular. Yeah, how now, if like you're raising me in an environment where you just want me, you just want all of us to be like a flock of sheep and you were the rightful shepherds who cannot be wrong. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:35

They can never ever be wrong. And out of throughout high school, that is, as much as like you kept to yourself and all of that, you were also getting quite a bit of attention because of your performance. I don't know whether you saw it or not, but the first time my parents knew of you is when we were in form one and there was a like prize giving something, like they were calling out best in this, best in this, and all of them were naybey monikachirop. Best in mathematics, naybe monikachirop. It got to a point where the parents started singing your name in the hall. I don't know if you remember that. I do not. Yeah, like you walikwa nafika besting to select like the whole hall. Naybe monikachirop. I'll never forget that. And that is how my dad and my mom knew of you because after they picked me up, they were like, it's so funny, but I wasn't really aware of that.

SPEAKER_03 33:26

The only person who I wanted, I was like, my dad was there and he came really late, like after me, after but I didn't know that he came late because that's so the entire time I'm like, Yes, dad, can you hear that? Yes, dad can hear that. And then I meet dad and like onion mefika. So he did like I only cared about what my dad thought. I didn't really care about like what anyone else thought, so yeah. But I don't know, after like after like you go to campus, you meet smarter people, you go everywhere, so and you just realize you're smart in your own way, but you're not the smartest person alive, and it just doesn't matter anymore, like in any way at all.

SPEAKER_01 34:07

But I feel like with us who were with you for those four years, I'm like, I've I can never meet anyone smarter than Cherop, in my opinion. In my opinion, but throughout that time, did you ever feel because you kept to yourself so much, did you ever feel lonely, or were you just uh okay with being alone? I've I've been lonely all my life.

SPEAKER_03 34:28

I think um when you grow up feeling lonely, I think um I think you don't know differently at all. So yeah, I was I was lonely, but maybe I wasn't aware of you know, maybe this is the feeling that they call loneliness. Yeah, but but I'd argue that I've felt lonely all my life, so I don't think it's something to I don't know, it's not a biggie really, because uh sometimes even if it's not lonely like um socially or sort of that thing, but also in a way that sometimes how I see the world or the ideas I care about, or like maybe some conversations that I'd really like to have. Sometimes I've felt like you know, like I don't meet so many people who are interested in those kind of things, so yeah, it's kind of lonely in that way. Yeah, so yeah, I might have felt lonely, but high school uh people are always there, drama was always happening.

SPEAKER_02 35:32

So um Monica, I have a question. There's this time when we're in high school, I think we're in form four, where you had uh something going on, and um as it was a matter of you trying to commit suicide, if I if I if if I'm wrong or if I'm right, you'll you'll you will you will totally correct. And there's a student who went and reported you to the teacher and uh to the principal, I think. I don't know if you remember that. She can make traumatized story. No, no, no, it's I just wanted you to explain that story, maybe how it affected you and what happened to you. That you as you said you were struggling with DPDR, like what happened at that time, and was it maybe caused by the pressure of being the smartest person, or was it caused by maybe you had things going on at home? And maybe how that student who reported you, how maybe it affected you and everything?

SPEAKER_03 36:25

Um I think it wasn't actually form four. I think it was still form two, like when the DPDR began. Um Yeah, I remember I think I I had wrought something, some piece of paper about how I was feeling. It wasn't really about suicide. Maybe someone could be like, hmm, the way this person sounds, they're probably suicidal. But I don't know, like I think with suicide, there is I don't I think everyone gets thoughts of I could just die right now. I'm only thinking about death and second, but it's okay, wake up, but it's not something that you'd actually do. Like, I think that's what I can say. Like, I don't think I would actually do that, but yeah, everyone has thoughts of it sometimes because you're like, ha, all of this is just too much. Yeah, and I remember so so I'm being called to I don't know if she was the principal or still the deputy principal at that time. Yeah, yeah, I think she was the deputy principal, and then she called me to my office, and then whatever I wrote was just there on her desk, and I'm like, What? Yeah, so um she asked me. So the thing is actually she wasn't mean about it, like she was very kind, and we all knew her as not a kind person in any way, so yeah. So it was just a conversation. How are you feeling? What are you doing? And then after that, they called my parents, and that's when I actually um went to see a psychiatrist. So with with like the DPDR, I think it's just it's so many factors in play. I feel like I should know a lot of things because I've had this all my life, but maybe Carol knows more. It's just that I've learned to get out of it, like as like it's not something that ever leaves you. Because even right now, like I have there's always that threshold, like if I just misstep a bit, I'm back there. But I've learned I think it's a function of definitely it has to do like with your sometimes your like your trumas or any like your growing up, your life, the challenges like you've gone through. Yeah and yeah, but also I think sometimes it just has to do with um you know, like I don't know, your cognitive threshold.

SPEAKER_01 38:47

Yeah, like the mind is uh is a very mysterious thing.

SPEAKER_03 38:51

Yeah, because I I feel like personally I'm very gifted when it comes to abstract thinking, like thinking about things abstractly and you know, all that pattern m matching, and so sometimes it can, you know, like I ex how I'm how I think about the world abstractly or how I think about ideas abstractly, you start to think about your real life abstractly, like it's something that ex like that math problem that you're you're you're solving, it does not exist in your world, but you're just thinking about it. So you go so that framework starts to leak into your daily life, and you know, you're going about life like there's a distance between you and the life itself, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:35

And uh, I don't know if this is uh too deep, but did which place felt more of a safe place, so to say, home or school? Like was there a preference with you? Um were you just okay in those environments?

SPEAKER_03 39:51

No, no, no. I I I to be sure, every each of those environments had its own challenges. Yeah, because when you're in school, you're kinda lost in a way. Um like uh it's like you've been thrown into like a crowd of people and everything. But and but also when you're home, it's not really like perfect because I think all of us can say that our parenting wasn't really perfect because yeah, like our parents were walking through some shit by themselves and they sort of projected most of that on us. So I I don't know, I I don't to be fair or unfair, I don't think I felt safe in anywhere, anywhere just by myself. Yeah, like I'm my safest place.

SPEAKER_01 40:42

Yeah, the safe spaces with you, yeah. It's inside me. And just to know, was there um out of specifically the teachers or the adults in school, was there one who made a positive impact in your life that you might remember? Like, did something that you remember? Um I just talked to you in a moment when you needed it. Like, was there any positive impact that you remember, either from a teacher, um I don't know, one of the marshals or any adult in school?

SPEAKER_03 41:10

Um I know you won't you probably not like this, but I did like our math teacher.

SPEAKER_04 41:16

I he wasn't a bad guy.

SPEAKER_03 41:22

Yeah, but I because I feel like me and like he was my teacher, but I also felt like he used to be my friend in a way because even when I was struggling with the DPDR and everything, like sometimes I just talked to him like for even an hour or more, and I just find like he was very understanding and he was very um supportive. So and also like I was in St. John Ambulance, and he was the patron of St. John Ambulance, and I remember like we'd travel to by the way. I like my team won the national awards if you if people don't know that. I'm quite the first aider, and he was the patron of the club, so uh like when we'd have these trips, when we'd be going out, like you know, we'd be you know, like I think there was more interaction in that. So yeah, I think for me he didn't really I won't say he made my life better, like he would he made like this huge positive impact, yeah, but I think he made my life just a little bit easy, yeah. He was a bit of a highlight in that moment, not a highlight, just it's just a nice to have it's just a good thing that's nice to have, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:33

And was there a student that had the same impact?

SPEAKER_03 42:36

This is this is both actually this is I don't know, like maybe you maybe you didn't like you might have had different experiences with all the other people, but I don't know. I really liked everyone, which was very weird, but I think it's because I sort of existed outside the bubble, as you say. So and to some degree, people were different with me than they were with other people. Like I'd be twice. 100% this girl is so rude to me and everything, and I'm talking to that girl, and she's telling me something vulnerable and she's crying about it, and I'm like, hmm, I just can't reconcile this to realities. So I just felt like because I was sort of not involved in anyone's drama, yeah, I wasn't really attached to anyone like that, and also I had kept all my life lock and key. Yeah, no one knew anything about me. So I think people felt like I was a bit of a safe place because I was neutral to everyone. But sometimes um I think it was quite hard because sometimes people would come talk to me about things that I felt like I wasn't really equipped to help them with. Yeah. Like very serious issues. And yeah, but I didn't like I would be supportive in that way, but I'd always feel like I'm not being supportive enough and Maybe like you need more help than I can give you. Yeah. Yeah. So I think the thing with it was like the ups and downs of being a very neutral person because I don't know, you get to see the good sides of everyone, but also uh you don't really have the space to actually accommodate all that. Yeah. And you can't have room to just lock into one connection.

SPEAKER_01 44:23

Yeah. And how has it been like moving from and I I I even want to know how you moved from the quiet girl who like never really talked to anyone, never really had like solid female friendships and all that, to now being here with us, being in our everyday.

SPEAKER_03 44:43

What happened? I want to know. Because I think when I went to campus, first of all, I deeply regretted my high school life. I hated it. Like, take me back, I will not live one day of it. So I wanted to do things differently. So I really just opened up myself because I was like, yay, it's just a chance to be in a new environment, to start over, to be a new person. So when I got to campus, I just started exploring a lot. So I I had some friendships that didn't work out. I had I had series of drama like back to back. Now I'm just having like so much drama going on. I'm like, who's that? But I think that's the thing of putting yourself out there. Yeah. Like you you become a bit vulnerable to like a lot of things. Definitely. But yeah, I you know, I went, I think when I was now diving into like um being more socially outgoing, I was quite naive at the beginning. And I think I made mistakes, I probably hurt people, I got hurt myself in so many ways. So by the time we were finishing campus, it's it's just really convenient that after we've like when we were nearing our end of campus, is when I started getting closer to Ruth, which was like really nice. Because right now, after campus, I'm close to I'd argue like a hundred percent, I'm close to the friends from high school that I keep than I am for to the friends that I met in campus. So I'm closer to Ruth, I'm closer to you, I'm closer to you know, Brenda and Kinabusi. Like those are my close friends. It's the people that I met in high school.

SPEAKER_02 46:21

We were like meant to be. I feel like me when I went to uni, like, because I already experienced all the drama and all this in in high school. So like plus I had a lot going on like with my brother and everything. So classia to like wanna fight about you could like I kwan the high school. So like seven dollars high school at the end. I feel like me, all the drama I had it in high school friendship drama, whatever drama, boy drama. I had the drama. So I feel like when I went into uni, I didn't have the time like for the drama. Because I had a lot going on at home. So like me as I like in uni, nilikua to so kill got like hi, everyone just like hi hi take a chai, you're so pretty and everything. But I had everything going on, you know. So like what I've got like, oh, niya janiaj miskuanga kwa drama, but I just used to watch and then I hear things that we're say you al ifanya we nay.

SPEAKER_03 47:06

I'm like, hey, yeah, so like in in campus, now I had boy drama, I had friendship drama, I had I think the thing is you won't make many mistakes, you'll just make one mistake with one person and they'll just ruin everything for you. Yeah, they'll ruin your reputation, they'll ruin your friendships. Yeah, it's like that one situation, maybe not them specifically, just that situation that you had going on between you two, it will just ruin everything because after campus, I was like some friend was texting me recently, and they were like, they're apologizing because they thought I was a crazy person. I was like, What? Me, crazy how yeah, like how but I think the thing with the people in campus is that I was never understood. I think coming from high school, you guys understand me more as a person. So, like with them, I felt you know, like the f I felt like uh eccentric, yeah, like that's the first time they're speaking normal English. No, like you're just from a different world in a way, like when I cut to any weird or to some degree.

SPEAKER_01 48:14

So it's the first time they're experiencing like you being quiet, you being all that.

SPEAKER_03 48:18

But with us, it's like just who she is. Yeah, and I think another reason why it was I think they also labeled me crazy because I feel like I do not really fit in with who they were. Like when someone is different, it's easier to just call them it's easier to label them as having a problem than just accepting the fact that they're just different from you. Yeah, and sometimes they're just better than you and accept it. Clock it!

SPEAKER_02 48:50

I feel like okay. So I feel like me when I went to uni, like me, I didn't have like classmates, drama jury. Anyone should have kivumbi you. I'm gonna pick up my chairs. So, uni, like I didn't like make like real friends, like you'll got like uni friends who just was speaking, I'm gonna drive it to Zango, so I can go to like only Rafkiang for the purpose of because I used to be like my friends are from my friends from my school. So you can show any to my friends, like me of the guys I was dating, it'll got to like keep kupass time. Like already had so much going on at home.

SPEAKER_01 49:20

Like a class, hey, we already like me and Iuni, it was the opposite. As much as I didn't fit in in high school, I was trying to fit in with everyone, but then I completely closed off completely, completely. And it was mostly because of my body image. So, like I used to dress buggies, because I'd been assaulted and stuff. So, like, from that girl to who I am right now, and I'm making friends, like I made friends in in uni uh mission, it we can't.

SPEAKER_02 50:00

But in fact, at the same time, Jana, because I'll casual. So, is that really? But Kulikona overla. A very kind guy in him's strata. But to strat, I can't my sweet team, my big team. So I had to take care of him. But I really didn't care about both of them. I feel like the only relationship that I had was the one your friend who you introduced me to. That was the relationship. I was present, I liked him, we were going on dates, nini ni.

SPEAKER_03 50:35

You don't require a present relationship. For me, I think for me it was different. The like the people I was trying to date in campus, I feel like none of them ever saw my value as a person because I think as like I say it again, I don't think they understood me, I don't think they actually knew me. So most of those people, like all of them, it's because they treated me like really shitty, like I wasn't the problem. Yeah, no, I am I have my own problems in a way, but it's not meets them. Yeah, I have my problem, but like I think all of those people like they just did me so dirty, like dang. And like right now, I'd like I'd never allow anyone to like walk over on me like that. But I think I was just this naive person, I'm just new to this, and then so I could like hmm, such me empath, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 51:28

But from the girls we were in high school, and I was telling Ruth this in the other episode, like I am so happy I get to see the girls I was with in green skirts, not the women that you are you know, this is so exciting. We should put that cafe hat. Yeah, like those girls looking at them, it's like okay, I know who you are, but who are you?

SPEAKER_03 51:55

I think one thing I can say about you guys as my friends from high school, compared to my friends in campus, even the ones I still keep, each of them has hurt me in ways that you know, like I just had to learn forgiveness. But with you guys, I've never had to learn like I've never had to forgive you for anything because you've actually misunderstanding like someone just does something that's just so disrespectful, like outright disrespectful and inconsiderate. I think for us it's just oh Nini, like the normal, it's like living together drama, the normal like uh misunderstandings, but it's not like that serious at all. But for like my campus friends, I feel like everyone at a certain point in time just really hurt me in a way that sometimes I feel like I should I shouldn't have forgiven you actually.

SPEAKER_02 52:48

Yeah, yeah. We'll talk about forgiveness in another series and uh I just like to say also me personally, even like with all these interviews that you are doing, and even watching you guys like grow as people, I never thought that there would be a time where I'd be in front of a microphone. No, like I was sharing at another interview that I used when I was young, I used to be like, you kwa TV, bro. I just wanted to be on TV. And the fact that I get to share these moments with you, and I there's remember there's a time when I was after high school. I don't know if you prayed to God for me. I told God that I really needed true friends. I told God, God, please give me true friends. And he one thing I love about God is he's a God who answers. There's some many brand influencer our company, Jesus. You know, he's a God who answers. And even the fact that we are doing this podcast thing, and I get to interview my friend, and you know what, we're just trying out life, and we don't know what's gonna happen in the next 10 years. It's just like, yeah, so today we are shooting a podcast, we don't know what we'll be doing in the next 10 years. Maybe we'll be signing a contract, maybe we'll be having a hospital together. Yeah, and I'm just so grateful to God for this friendship, and even all the others like Bussi, Megan, Celine. Yeah, I'm grateful for for them. Yeah, I'm grateful for God uh bringing them into our lives, and I just pray that God continues to be with us. And I remember we always pray when we whenever we we have our friendship called to nobang and we cover the friendship with the blood of Jesus because there is nothing that you can be able to do without Jesus. So I just like to say, Monica, thank you so much for this episode. Okay, I didn't I didn't really need to work on speaking quickly.

SPEAKER_01 54:27

Moving on to 100 miles per hour. But Monica, uh, I thank you so much for the friendship. Thank you even for the way that you try to like keep up with the friendship and open up because kama ongewa willing, but they are onge kuwa willing. Na kuna atuzi kuchapa you see. And uh one thing that I want to say to you just in front of Ruth and everyone, maybe personally, kama caro, me, I'm so proud of you, bro. Like, I wish you were my child. Like, I'm so proud of you. Everything that you get to do in life, like everything that you've already done. You've traveled, you've gotten a first class, you have a start team, you you you are you're doing these amazing projects like internationally. Yeah, that's a big deal. And I never want you to sell yourself short ever. That's a big it's a huge deal, actually.

SPEAKER_03 55:12

I'm also like very proud of you guys, and I'm very appreciative of the friendship we've had. And every day I'm growing in ways because of you and for you. Yeah, yeah, because I just really do love you, like truly, from the bottom of my heart.

SPEAKER_01 55:27

Can't wait to see like every version of every friend we have. Like I've seen you in a green skirt, I've seen you as a girl in campus growing, I've seen you make stupid decisions with the man. Yeah, I want to I've seen you have do your work or have a business like us. I want to see you be a wife, I want to see you as a mother, like I want to see every other, yeah. I want to see every other version of you that there is. Yeah, but right now, for everything that you're doing, God is with you. Yeah, we you press success upon every project that you're doing, and you're the smartest girl ever. Never fell yourself short of that. I'll never I'll never accept it. Guinea, so is my record?

SPEAKER_02 56:01

Yeah, please, please, bro. Okay, everyone, thank you so much for tuning in into the episode. Please subscribe and share. And I, as I'm always saying, even if you want to cancel us, it's okay. Cancel, then you subscribe. Yes, yeah. So and then you subscribe. So please subscribe and share. And thank you so much for tuning in. See you on the next episode. Bye.