From performance to presence | Rediscovering worship Dance with Special guest - Sarah Gold

💃 From performance to presence (When Your Feet Become a Prayer) | Rediscovering Worship Dance | Everything Kingdom Podcast | Sarah Gold

What if worship wasn't just something you sang—but something you lived, moved, and expressed with your whole being?

In this joyful and encouraging episode, Lucky sits down with his friend, Sarah Gold—a professional dancer, artist, and passionate follower of Jesus—to explore the beauty and purpose of worship through movement.

Together, they unpack Sarah's journey as a professional artist, share powerful testimonies of God's faithfulness, and dive into what it means to worship with complete freedom. From the walls of Jericho, where obedience and praise brought breakthrough, to King David dancing before the Lord in 2 Samuel 6, this conversation reminds us that worship is far more than a performance—it's an expression of surrender, joy, and faith.

Whether you're a dancer, creative, worship leader, or simply longing to experience more freedom in God's presence, this episode will encourage you to embrace worship with your whole heart.

🔥In this 47 mins conversation, you'll discover:

✨Why worship dance is about God's presence, not performance.
✨How movement can become a powerful expression of prayer and praise.
✨Sarah's personal stories and testimonies from the dance world.
✨What the Bible teaches about worship through movement.
✨How joy becomes our strength when we worship with freedom.
✨Practical encouragement for artists and creatives living out their faith.

📖 Key Scriptures
• Joshua 6 – The walls of Jericho
• 2 Samuel 6 – David danced before the Lord with all his might
• Psalm 149:3 – "Let them praise His name with dancing..."
• Nehemiah 8:10 – "The joy of the Lord is your strength."

If this conversation encouraged you, don't forget to LIKE, SUBSCRIBE, and SHARE it with a friend, dancer, creative, or worshipper who needs this reminder.

💬 We'd love to hear from you in the comments:
What does worship through movement mean to you? Have you ever experienced God's presence in a powerful way through dance or another creative expression?

🎙️ Everything Kingdom Podcast exists to share stories of ordinary people living extraordinary lives for Jesus, equipping believers to bring the Kingdom of God into every sphere of life.

#EverythingKingdomPodcast #onearthasitisinheaven  #WorshipDance #KingdomCulture #ChristianPodcast #SarahGold #Lucky #Worship #CreativeArts #DavidDanced #Jericho #FaithInAction #JoyOfTheLord #ChristianCreatives #DanceMinistry

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:07

In the world you rejoice because you have joy.

SPEAKER_05 0:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 0:11

But in the kingdom, you get joy by rejoicing.

SPEAKER_05 0:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 0:15

So dancing is bad. Hi there. Welcome back to the Everything Kingdom podcast. It is me, your host Lucky, back in the studio. And today I have a special guest, a friend of mine. Her name is Sarah Gold. She's a professional dancer, an artist, and a singer. Creativity is her world, but I'd love for you guys to get to know her. Let's just break bread and she'll get to introduce herself after. Jesus, thank you for your broken body. Thank you that we take this on behalf of not just of those listening, but we would love to take this on behalf of our city. We declare this that by your stripes we are healed, and we declare the same thing over those that are watching and listening and over the greater city of New York City. Yeah, Lord, we honor you for your precious blood that speaks just a better covenant, speaks a better word. We speak this and we take this cup in memory of what you've done, but also as a declaration that actually nations they shall receive salvation because of this. So we thank you for the payment of our sins and we take this in memories of your name. Oh, that is just amazing. Amen. So welcome to the show. Welcome to the Everything Kingdom podcast. I am so stalked. I'm actually really excited on the inside.

SPEAKER_01 1:59

Me too.

SPEAKER_00 1:59

I don't know if it shows on the outside, but I'm really um It's the smile, I can tell.

SPEAKER_01 2:03

Yeah. You're glowing.

SPEAKER_00 2:04

Okay, great. Uh press God. I was uh I was sometimes I'm grumpy with the weather that is going on outside. Uh can be like, take me somewhere else. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:12

Yeah. It's cool in here though.

SPEAKER_00 2:14

But how are you?

SPEAKER_02 2:15

I'm good. I'm so good. How are you?

SPEAKER_00 2:17

I'm doing great, thank you. Welcome to uh the show. I'm so glad you're here. Would love to start by you telling our listeners and those that are going to be watching who you are beyond the stage.

SPEAKER_01 2:32

Okay, that's a loaded question. Who am I going to be on the stage? Just a little intro, right?

SPEAKER_00 2:37

A little intro, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:38

Okay. My name is Sarah. I am from Atlanta, Georgia. So not born in the city here. Um I'm a dancer, actress, singer. Uh, but aside from that, um, I just love Jesus and I love people and I love community. Um, yeah, and I think all of that can kind of fuse with the art. So I'm excited to talk about all of that today.

SPEAKER_00 3:00

Ah, it is exciting that you're going to talk about who you are and what you do. And I have met you in a community setting uh where I got to see some of your friends, and I get to be drafted in actually like like right away, I get to be adopted by Church in the City and people that you fellowship with. Amazing, amazing people. And at the first time we met, I saw you dance and I saw your team dance. And to be honest, I was sitting next to a friend of mine. I told him, I don't think I understood what they were dancing or the or the message prophetically around that. For some reason, I got attracted to like what they were doing. And, you know, so what was that about? Like, what were you guys doing?

SPEAKER_01 3:39

I love it. It's so funny because it really was an instrumental piece and there was no intro to that. So it was really up to interpretation. Um, that was actually an event called Taste and See. And that was the first time actually that I have danced in front of people for like a Christ-like vision. So normally it's been all just shows I'm hired for. Um, and we can talk about that too, just like the craziness that is just getting offered a job and being like, okay, this is the next thing I'm doing. Um, but that particular was actually a guy that just moved here, um, incredible ballet dancer, contemporary dancer, put together this piece called Taste and See. And it was just about like experiencing heaven for the first time and what that is going to taste like and feel like and look like and sound like. Um, so it was kind of exploring the five senses of heaven, which was kind of a cool piece to step into because we just got to explore the space and um yeah, like embody what it would feel like to be in heaven with Jesus for the first time.

SPEAKER_00 4:40

I love that. Yeah. What was that like for you? Like first time.

SPEAKER_01 4:44

Well, amazing. Um, also that space is Church of the City space that is where the prayer room is hosted. So so many amazing, like anointed, just like prayers go up in that space. So I think the ground had already been prepared for like a pretty powerful and epic night. And it it did feel truly like amazing.

SPEAKER_00 5:03

I told my friend, I cannot be this vulnerable. Because if I'm doing something that I can explain to people that this is what I did, it is easy. I can feel like this, I can defend myself, or I can like, you know, say more to what I've just done. You guys put up a beautiful, beautiful set, and you just have to walk away and go home. And I'm like, that is so. I know, one and done.

SPEAKER_01 5:24

Like all the rehearsals, and you get one performance and it's done.

SPEAKER_00 5:27

It's amazing though. Yeah, I think so. For how long have you been a dancer though?

SPEAKER_01 5:30

I have been dancing since I was three years old. I think three or four. Yeah. Long time.

SPEAKER_00 5:36

That's a lot of years of dancing. Then how did that translate into dancing for was it a hobby growing up?

SPEAKER_01 5:44

So my parents met in Bible college. Briefly mentioned that to you. Um, and so we just had worship music on. Like all my mom really didn't have anything on the TV other than just like worship music. And it was all day. It was like one of the um like the television channels.

SPEAKER_00 5:59

She's one of those.

SPEAKER_01 6:00

Yeah, the television channels where it'd be like sermons and then worship songs. And so there's like videos of me, like three years old before my mom put me in ballet class, just twirling around the living room. Um, I was actually asked this week, I was in a women's gathering, and the prompt of us gathering was what is your deepest grief right now? And what is your deepest joy from your childhood? And my deepest joy from my childhood was that just remembering like the freedom I had, twirling around. Wow. Because it was just, it felt free, right? The idea of like just being playful and like being with your friends and like frolicking. And so I think joy has always been kind of tied to movement for me in that way. And honestly, arguably, I feel like joy is probably tied to most people in that way, like arms open, just feeling free. Um, so anyway, my mom recognized that just oh, well, she likes to twirl and spin, and she's never even seen a dancer before. So maybe we should put her in dance class. And so the rest was history. Um, I danced from three all the way up to 18. I switched studios quite a few times. I was like, mom's like, no, we're not dancing to that song. Switch. Um, but yeah, it was kind of just this journey of like falling in love with it. And I think it was probably I was 15 or 16 years old, and I saw a West Side story at the Fox Theater. And I remember just being like, I have to do that one day. And like talking to my mom and being like, I want to do that. Like that, I just decided that's what I want to do. And so the next like three years we're kind of realizing I think I'm gonna go to college for this and study this and and do this. And my parents knew nothing at all about it. So they did the best that they could to just kind of usher me into that next season of life and dance.

SPEAKER_00 7:47

So that's just wonderful. Like, um, I like the fact that you tied joy into that. Uh I think someone said to me once that in the world, you rejoice because you have joy.

SPEAKER_05 7:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:59

But in the kingdom, you get joy by rejoicing.

SPEAKER_05 8:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:04

So dancing is part of that.

SPEAKER_05 8:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:07

That actually when you choose to dance, when you choose to rejoice, then joy becomes evident.

SPEAKER_05 8:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:12

So I love that that's been your uh background growing up. Actually, it's very evident. If every every time that I've seen you, I've not seen you not smiling, not laughing, not having a good time. I feel like I'm not sure. Maybe I should dance more. Maybe I should get back here. It'll be like, hey, you guys are ready. You should uh I if I'm to dance, I have to turn the blinders on and you know, turn the lights off, and I you know, get a make sure no one is watching. Was this like uh a goal growing up? Or you like you I know you touched it a little bit growing up that um you started pursuing this and then going into college, continually pursued dance. But when did that turn into actually dancing for the Lord? Uh like when did it become worship dance from just ballet and movement and having that as a creative person?

SPEAKER_01 9:01

Good, great question. You're catching me at an interesting time, actually, because I think that the Lord is currently developing that in me, um, which is why I'm excited to talk about it. Um so I got my dance degree at Oklahoma City University. And before I graduated, like right before I already knew I had a contract lined up. I was gonna go dance on cruise ships. So I had I did that back-to-back two contracts. So that was almost two years of me just like traveling the world and getting to see all these amazing countries. Um, I think I checked like over 30 countries off on my list. I mean, it was amazing. And I'm we're just performing every night. Um, and so that was kind of the beginning of me working as a professional. And, you know, I wish I could look back and be like, yeah, I was dancing for the Lord the whole time. No, like honestly, it was like I get to travel the world and I get to dance. I'm living the dream. Um, and so it's interesting to talk about because I think, you know, dancers' entire career is auditioning and putting yourself on the line and saying, like, pick me, look at me, look what I can do. Okay, I got chosen. Great, I have the job. And it's all performance-based. And really, like, I think I mentioned this earlier briefly, but it's like you don't necessarily, you're not like maybe some people are. I was not necessarily being like, Lord, is this the job that you want to take me on next? And how can I further your kingdom on this contract? I am definitely more that way now.

SPEAKER_03 10:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:34

I don't think I was earlier in my career. So it's been an interesting journey of kind of deconstructing that because you're just always waiting to get chosen and then you get the job, and then you just get wrapped up in this like performance bubble with like a lot of people also in the bubble. And time passes, and then you're on to the next one. And you go and you present yourself to a panel. Am I good enough? Pick me. So it's just this kind of like yo-yo. And I think specifically, if you're an unbeliever, that can be super challenging. And even as a believer, the interesting thing that I've found since, and I'll go into like kind of the dance worship nights I've hosted, but the thing I'm finding is when I'm talking to women about this and just like reflecting on it myself, I'm like, there was a gift given to us when we were young that felt joyful and free. And then at what point when it became our career, was it taken into like a tight grip and not really surrendered to the Lord anymore? Um, and then what does it look like to get that back at the feet of Jesus?

SPEAKER_03 11:39

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 11:40

Um, and so for many years of my career, it really was like riding the waves of like whatever job came into my inbox and then the immediate yes, and then plan the rest of my life around that job that I got offered. Um, so there's a lot to unpack in terms of like what that does to the mental uh for dancers in the industry and um how that can affect your walk with the Lord too. I think going back to your question, when did it become an offering to the Lord? I think so. During COVID, I had been living in New York City. I moved back home to Atlanta, and I will never forget this moment. My whole family was home and my, you know, me and my it's me and my brother, and we are best, like we're close friends, we're best friends, but we also like butt heads. And he looks at me and he was like, So, Sarah, you know, it's COVID. The industry is shut down, Broadway is shut down, there's no dance happening. Like we don't have a job.

SPEAKER_03 12:38

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 12:38

Right. So I'm home with my parents. He goes, if God asked you to stop dancing, would you?

SPEAKER_00 12:43

What a tough question. What the heck?

SPEAKER_01 12:46

What would you do with that?

SPEAKER_02 12:47

I'm like, bro, it's 2020.

SPEAKER_01 12:49

We're in the middle of a pandemic. I have no work. And you're gonna say, if God asked you to stop dancing, would you? And I was like, honestly, kind of mad. Wow. Like I'm like, whatever. I think I like got up and just walked away. I was like, I'm not engaging in this conversation.

SPEAKER_00 13:02

I'll punch you in the face. Like, you know, today.

SPEAKER_01 13:04

I'm like, not the time, bro. But in hindsight, actually, I think I'm at, I'm much more at a point now where I'm like, oh my gosh, if God asked me to stop dancing, like, absolutely, like, let me go where he leads me. So that was like honestly, that time of like 2020 to 2021 was like the first time I was surrendering because I was like, I actually don't even know if there's ever gonna be a job for me again. So, what does my life look like without this thing that I have adored and gripped on to in your way, Lord? Like in your version of the story. Um, and so it was actually during 2020 where I actually started the first time that the Lord kind of planted the idea of like a dance worship night in my heart. So it that's been six years. So wow.

SPEAKER_00 13:51

I keep getting back to this as you speak. Literally, the childlike in me is starting to come out. I'm thinking, like, do you know that actually no one teaches a kid how to dance? They just wake up and start. You just wiggle. It's like it's within our DNA to actually express ourselves that way.

SPEAKER_06 14:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:06

I'm thinking about like how we it's like he designed us, God, to actually be that.

SPEAKER_06 14:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:12

Only a few people are picking up on it, and you're like, hey, I'm just gonna run with this and uh I'm gonna make so much out of this. So I'm so glad that you shared a little background of all of that. And I'm I'm thinking, what a way to start. Like during COVID, that's a tough one. Because that's like even churches, bigger churches that I know, they're struggling to do mainstream media. They are rather to uh stream online or uh getting their YouTubes or getting their like platforms on how to stream. So how was that kind of like starting footing and starting uh six years of uh worship? What did you call it?

SPEAKER_01 14:46

Yeah, dance worship. Yeah. To be honest, there's only been a handful of them. So it is a dream that the Lord is just, I mean, it started as a seed and then it was watered a little bit. And and so it's just now kind of um hopefully in the future going to become a bigger thing. But back then it honestly just started as like a little tiny seed in my heart and followed by obedience. And one of the pieces of obedience was moving back to New York City. Um, so I had a few years in Georgia, um, actually booked West Side Story Tour, um, which as I said earlier was when I decided that I wanted to dance. So really cool God moment of full circle getting to go on tour. And then upon coming back, I was like, Lord, are you leading me back to New York City? And it was like this this thing that was in my heart that I hadn't been obedient to yet. And I come back and I spend, I think it's like one week in New York, and I'm like, God, like, am I supposed to be back here? And I felt very clear that I was supposed to move back. So two years ago, I moved back to the city. Um, and I think the it was only about a year and a half ago when I hosted my first dance worship night with a dear friend of mine, actually back in Atlanta, and we hosted a few of them, and it was just really, really sweet. It was like this little tiny picture of what I would love. I don't know. I think God has gifted me visions of what it could look like and it feels so big. And if I'm being so honest with you, it feels scary. Because I know that the Lord would equip me in that. And I don't know, maybe you can, maybe you can relate to that. Like when God is calling you to something that feels big, it's scary and you don't necessarily feel equipped.

SPEAKER_00 16:23

Uh this even for someone who's out there. If what feel like what you feel like God has called you is not scary for you, yeah. Maybe you need to check back a little bit. Yeah. Maybe you don't have a full package of what that vision looks like. Every single time God calls you to something, he's always knowing that you're gonna need his help and you rely on your own strength is not big enough.

SPEAKER_06 16:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:44

So anything that's scary for me, it just gives me motivation that this is God in it. Yeah. Because there's no way I could put this off on my own. So I'm so glad you went with it. I I wanted you to touch a little bit because there's some of our listeners and our viewers out there, and they are thinking, what is worship dance? Maybe they grew up Catholic, or maybe they are in a different kind of like denomination. Because I am from a charismatic kind of a church. We dance, we flag, we run around. Oh I cannot forget this moment. We were uh in a ministry school. We had this guy, a friend of ours now, he's from Puerto Rico, and we would put on like praise and people would jump around and like and this guy he would make sprints in the in you know in the sanctuary, and he wouldn't annoy so many people. For like three months, no one could understand why this guy is doing that. And uh one time there was uh a like a leader from South Africa, so he brought him on and said, ask him a question. So tell us why every single time worship comes on, you choose to make laps and run around. And he said, See, when you come into the presence of God and you are excited and you see truly for who God is, to some people they are going to raise their hands, to others, they are going to start to sing out loud. Other people are going to start to jump. The next phase from jumping is actually you being undignified. Wow. So much so that you could make a run. Every single person was so stunned. Even those that were so offended at him three months earlier, they were repenting the fact that they didn't have a revelation of what this guy has. Wow. So when you talk about dance, so there are some of the things that I've seen God do in a man, in a person. Um I know stories of in the Bible, uh in 2 Samuel, where David expresses himself before the Lord, a king.

SPEAKER_06 18:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:40

You know, so much so that he tore his entire clothes off to dance before. I don't know how that even looks like right now, if you tell President Trump, like, you're gonna dance so much so before the Lord that your clothes are gonna be torn off. Yeah. I wanted you to unpack what worship dance is for our listeners that might not know what this looks like.

SPEAKER_01 18:58

Wait, so many good things you just said. So many things I want to touch on. Before I go on to that, I the story of David is one of my favorites. One of my favorite things about that is there's twice that he dances in that scripture because I've looked at that in tandem with when I've hosted dance worship nights. And it's as they're moving the Ark of the Covenant, he's dancing and rejoicing because the Ark of the Covenant is going to be transported wherever it's going. And it's like David danced before the Lord with all of his might with the people of Israel. So this is before he's stripped down. He's just dancing with that all of the house of Israel. So it's not just David, it's him and all of the people. So earlier, when you were saying, you know, everyone's kind of born with this like wiggle when they're little, you know, it's like he what like there was a story in the Bible where everyone was dancing and rejoicing before the Lord. And what would that look like now for like everybody in this room? Like if a whole congregation was just like dancing before the Lord together, like awesome. Um, but then the next paragraph is when what's his name? Uh uh, so it's the U. Uzza, Uzza, uh, Uzza, yeah. Touches it and is struck dead. So he's dancing. Paragraph one. Yeah. Paragraph two, dude dies from the power of God. Paragraph three, he strips down and he's dancing again.

SPEAKER_00 20:19

Again.

SPEAKER_01 20:19

So there's two stories. And I think what it's someone in his family sees him dancing and is like so embarrassed. And he's like, How she's like, How dare you dance like that?

SPEAKER_00 20:28

It's Saul's daughter.

SPEAKER_01 20:29

Saul's daughter, yes, yes, yes. And she's like, How dare you? And he's like, I am going to dance because he mentioned something about like, why would I do anything else? Like, I'm gonna humble myself and dance before the Lord. So anyway, I just love that story because there's so many good nuggets in there.

SPEAKER_00 20:45

I actually I want to, like, I don't know, I didn't mean to cut this. This is this is so pivotal because when you dance in a church or in any setting, someone could look at that and being overly expressive. I've seen some of my European friends who are not so overly expressive. And this is how high they will raise their hands in church. Yeah. So well put and everything. So they will see you do that and be like, I don't think that is God. They are being overly excited or whatever. This this is uh King Saul's daughter who despised her husband for dancing before the Lord. And scripture says that actually, because of that, undermining what David was doing, she was made barren. So she could not even bear kids because she undermined or despised someone dancing and worshiping before the Lord.

SPEAKER_06 21:32

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 21:33

So that's how much an influence, that's how much God sees that, and like you undermine worship that's being offered on top. Wow. That's what it looks like. So this is just a caution for anyone, and for me to just say, even if I don't understand, I was just like, I don't know if that is God, I'm gonna stay away with us. All that to say is that that's such a fun story of dance. Yeah. The first time this guy was teaching us that story. He made us get in payoff too. I told you this before, I think on the phone or somewhere when we were chatting.

SPEAKER_01 22:06

Yeah, you mentioned it.

SPEAKER_00 22:07

And uh friend of mine I need the full picture.

SPEAKER_01 22:09

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 22:10

I need to say a video of myself dancing before my friend because that was so we need we need to see that.

SPEAKER_01 22:15

That's gonna have to go somewhere in the chat later.

SPEAKER_00 22:18

I have so many things where I go to heaven and say, guy, could you show me a video like the change? The value of dry bones and how they are being, you know, I want that on on like on a video to say it. Like how would they happen in Ezekiel? So I I love those moments. But take us through that um, like, you know, worship being expressed in the form of a dance.

SPEAKER_06 22:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:40

In a church setting. Some churches do it today, some church don't. Some people do it individually without the church embracing it.

SPEAKER_06 22:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:48

Could you help us and our listeners understand what that is?

SPEAKER_01 22:52

Yeah. Um, the times that I have hosted dance worship nights have been totally just like renting studio space and inviting people. It hasn't been in tandem with the church. Um, that would be epic to see dancers in the church. That would be really cool. Um in terms of when we have hosted me, I usually co-host with another person, um, with another dancer, so that we can just kind of share the space. And as the spirit leads, like we can both just like speak and lead together. Um, but really what it has looked like so far is just bringing dancers together in a space, opening in prayer. Um, and it ends up kind of being like kind of like a prayer devotional night, but then add in movement. Um, so the goal for me previously has been really as basic as usually the girls in the classes have have been dancers in high school, all the way up to high school, um, or they're professional dancers. So the idea is this gift that the Lord gave you can we strip back what the industry has done?

SPEAKER_03 23:54

Wow. Wow.

SPEAKER_01 23:55

And actually just come before the Lord and offer our talents back to him. So what it's looked like now is like, you know, a little bit of a warm-up and improvisation with worship music so that we can just move our bodies to praise the Lord.

SPEAKER_04 24:06

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 24:06

Um, one of the things we've done is written prayer requests on note cards and flip them upside down. And then as the spirit leads each dancer to pick one up, and it's supposed to be someone else's prayer request. And then the idea is to take that prayer request and dance through prayer and worship over that person. So then it kind of takes the vision off of what can I receive from the Lord? Like only selfish and puts it on other people so that we're worshiping like as a group for other people. Um, and so that's a really cool thing that we've incorporated. And then um, I we normally choreograph a combination. So we'll teach the dancers the combination to a worship song. And it's just like really getting to do what we love the most for Jesus as a form of worship, which is really, really neat. And we usually close it um kind of circling up and just talking about what the Lord's doing in our lives. And that I feel like has been the coolest breakthrough because we just danced and we just like let it all out and moved our bodies, which is so beautiful. And then we get to hear from everyone in the room of like, hey, what is God speaking to you lately? And some of the stories are just like, thank, thank you for inviting me into this space. Like, I think I forgot what it was like to just dance for the Lord instead of dancing for a job.

SPEAKER_00 25:21

So I I want to talk to you and uh about that and how it's been looking like in the marketplace. But I have a uh a segment where I want to touch just on the testimonies and stories. So I'll go first.

SPEAKER_06 25:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:36

Uh I I saw I saw this girl come into, again, in the school environment where I saw most of these things. So this girl comes in in our class, she's very shy, she doesn't want to talk to people, but she knows ballet and she's very good at stuff like that. She feels like she can dance, but where she comes from, she comes from Europe and she's not allowed to be that expressive. You know? And uh the worship uh dancing pastor invites her to uh in the class, she has to do training or like what I was like. By the end of I think our class, she gets to give a testimony and she said my my grandmother, my mom and me generations past have always been struggling with the fear of man.

SPEAKER_06 26:24

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 26:25

And it was until I was invited into a space of dancing and express myself before the Lord that I felt like the Lord has broken off a generational curse about the fear of man.

SPEAKER_06 26:34

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 26:35

I can walk into any room and I can speak and I can be myself just because I allow the Lord to use my gift in a setting like this.

SPEAKER_06 26:43

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 26:44

So for me, when I hear stories like that, I am thinking this is more than dance. Yeah. There's something in there. I'm wondering: do you have stories and testimonies of what God has been doing with the girls that you have, with the people that you commit with, or even you personally?

unknown 26:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:59

I feel like actually this is what God did in an environment like that.

SPEAKER_01 27:03

Since there's only been a few, uh, I can just speak to the moments we've had in the room. Um each time we've met, I think that chains are broken. Um, there is something so special about not just raising your voice, but making it like a full body to surrender to the Lord.

SPEAKER_04 27:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:21

Um, and I mean, it's like a lot of girls talk about just like their anxiety in the industry, or um, there's so much comparison in the industry, right? It's like we grow up looking in the mirror from three years old at our bodies, you know, like that is a whole thing to unpack. And so coming in with like this weight of comparison, this weight of um, am I enough? How am I seen? Just like the anxieties that like people face day to day in a city like this, specifically in the arts. Um, like coming in and just like kind of laying those at the feet of Jesus, like for sure, like lots of tears. Um, and just prayer around that. Um, I think a lot of it is just vision for what's to come, too, because it's cool to imagine what the Lord could do in a room of dancers just completely surrendered to him and what I mean, I love hearing your story of like full healing and restoration happening. Um, and what would that look like if we had, um, I don't know, like dance worship nights at colleges.

SPEAKER_03 28:34

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 28:35

Where there's already ministry on campus, but you know, and there's also dancers on campus. And how how do we fuse like ministry and all of these colleges across New York City that have these dancers who are about to be thrusted into the industry? A lot of them, I'm sure, are believers, but do they feel equipped to enter into a secular industry and feel feel forced into the yes for whatever job is presented to them? How do we equip dancers to feel uh like they have the armor of God on and they feel like, you know what, I am a dancer. God has given me this gift. And how do I have the wisdom and discernment to say the yes where it needs to be a yes and actually say a no where it needs to be a no? And how do I navigate this industry uh as a believer? So that is kind of like the dream and vision I feel like the Lord is placing in my heart of like equipping artists to lay down um a lot of just things that have been attached to them as a dancer in a secular world, um, and like give it back to the Lord and find freedom in movement again. Um, and that's just for people who consider themselves a dancer. I mean, this is a whole other conversation, too, for people who don't consider themselves a dancer.

SPEAKER_00 29:52

Yeah, I like Colton, I know one, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:54

Yeah. I just, you know what? What's the there's a verse that says, um, like there's a song, everyone has a song or something. I think it's in like first Corinthians, like everyone has a song. I'm like, I think everyone has a dance.

SPEAKER_00 30:10

Literally, it's actually, yeah, you're actually right. Like, if you come into a meeting, uh, let someone bring a psalm, let someone bring a hymn, let someone bring whatever, like someone could bring your, you know, dancing shoes, Colton, and that would be fun. That'd be ridiculous to uh see your text on in your cowboats, you know, flipping around and like do like dancing for God. That would be crazy. That would be ridiculous. But um, this is gonna be sound, this is gonna sound ridiculous to you, but the reason why I'm so excited about this is the first time, the first thing that God asked me to do when I moved to New York City was buy flags. I bought flags before I even bought communion. Let's go. I have never considered myself a dancer. Matter of fact, I've only danced around my friend when we were in a class, and every now and then when I get excited or something, jump around. But then I was in a worship set and God was like, Would you buy flags if I asked to? I was like, Yeah, for someone else for sure.

SPEAKER_02 31:06

You're like, Sarah's gonna be on the podcast, will you use my flags?

SPEAKER_00 31:09

I bought them. And it's like, no, those are for you. I want you to dance around. And actually, the first three, four weeks, maybe two months, at at our church, I'd flag with dance. The only guy that I saw do that, that was me. And Carolsk, why do you ask me to do this again? And it's like, if you don't demystify, if you don't show what courage looks like, especially for men, no one's gonna be able to do it. And I want you to plant a seed so much so that actually people get to know that men and women can both dance and can both express themselves before the Lord and beautiful. So it's a funny story, friend of mine now, Sav, gets to like, well, usually something uh for those of you that are like um watching Sav is in the studio with us. So she gets to be like, You gave me courage. I hope I'm sharing this because like she was like, You give me courage to flag. God has been speaking about this to me for a minute, and I'm like, that is why he asked me to buy flags.

SPEAKER_01 32:13

So that someone It could have just been for that.

SPEAKER_00 32:15

For that's one that one little moment. Another person came, another like four or five people in a space of like five weeks. So dance is so special to me. Yeah, such like I've seen God heal people in dance. I remember this, I'm gonna share this story. We are in what's called the healing rooms in our church in Everman in Reading. We had prayed for this man, and he had like an accident hit by a trail or something for 20 years. He could barely walk, you know. And so we tried to lay hands on him and pray. Nothing happened for like five minutes. So one of our leaders suggested, hey, why don't we just invite the dancers that are on stage to come and dance around him? So they came and they didn't touch him. They just started dancing and waving their flags around and they moved in circle. And after like, I think five minutes, this man guessed up and started walking without a cane for the very first time in 20 years. Let's go. So another person was like, I want that. They got to sit in the circle and then like I got healed. Every single literally, I'm like, I had never experienced anything like that. I think I don't know, I don't have like a theology to back this. The only thing that comes to my mind was when God asked his people when they are coming out of Egypt, and instead of them going with guns and like taking down a city, he said, I want you to get a worship team, get your flags out, and I want you to go around Jericho Walls and march around it seven times. Bang! Jericho Walls comes down. Those are the things for me I pay attention to and I'm thinking there's so much, there's so much in movement.

SPEAKER_01 33:52

So much in movement.

SPEAKER_00 33:53

I feel like I'm talking uh just so much in movement.

SPEAKER_01 33:57

Yeah, there's just so many times in scripture where it's like it is not just about what we're saying, it is about what we're doing. I love the story of Jericho. I actually felt the Lord placed on my heart a couple months ago to have like my own journey to Jericho. Oh, I'm just so crazy you bring this up. Maybe it was for this. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 34:14

I know you were meant to be here.

SPEAKER_01 34:16

I was like, I was practicing. I was in this course, and one of the kind of like weekly prompts was to like practice hearing from God, which is like such a cool thing to talk about. Um, and I had not done my homework. We're six days, you know, I'm meeting tomorrow and I'm like, all right, Lord, I haven't heard from you. I gotta lock in. Like, I'm on the treadmill, I'm away for work. I have like a 30-minute little treadmill jog, and I'm like, okay, 30 minutes, I'm gonna hear from the Lord, not listening to anything in my headphones. And all of a sudden it's uh, what is it? Josh Afought the battle of Jericho, that song that we sang as a kid. And I'm like, I have not heard that song since I was like six years old, you know, whatever, when I was in like vacation Bible school or whatever. So it's like, okay, Lord, maybe there's something in this. So I look on the story of Jericho and I was like, what would it look like? I mean, these people got up every single day, circled Jericho one time, and on the seventh day, how many seven times around Jericho and the walls came tumbling down. They didn't do anything other than walk.

SPEAKER_03 35:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:17

There was some power in just moving their bodies. And so I went on my own journey to Jericho, which was so crazy, but like one little circle around my park a day. And then on the seventh day, I did seven circles around this park. And it was like, I think like a mile or something like that.

SPEAKER_00 35:31

Imagine if someone saw you every day and be like, what's she doing?

SPEAKER_01 35:34

It was just walking. I didn't have flags or ramhorns. Praise God. Um, but like in that, it was just like, okay, I'm gonna be obedient to move my body for you. And actually, there was like so many breakthroughs in terms of like things I felt the Lord speaking into like the next season of my life. So I don't know, just I think that there is something really cool about moving your body. I think what's the story of Miriam? Someone spoke this over me the other day. Um, I love this because when they're led out of Egypt and they cross the Red Sea, she had it says that Miriam led all of the women in Tam with tambourines and dancing. And there was a commentary on this that why would they they were like rushing out? Like they didn't even have time to like pack the things that they actually needed for the journey, but they brought tambourines.

SPEAKER_03 36:20

Wow. Wow.

SPEAKER_01 36:22

So, what is the mindset of why did they bring tambourines when they were being led into the desert and should have been packing like food and water? Okay, they had tambourines, which meant they were planning to rejoice. They were planning to dance and rejoice and move their body because they knew that God was gonna move, basically. Um, so yeah, so much power and movement, and also like I think that ties together your like vit what you were saying about like rejoicing too is like, can we plant? Like, it's not just oh, God asked me to buy flags, so I'm gonna buy flags. Like, how can we like plan ahead of time to rejoice in what God's gonna do? Um, and what does that look like when you're actually moving your body and praising the Lord with your movement? So I think there's a lot there, but that was pretty cool.

SPEAKER_00 37:07

Let's talk about the uh um art industry and the creative world and uh the tension, uh the challenges that come with a daughter of God having to go into a marketplace and having to perform, but as some knowing that I'm a daughter of a king, and uh take us through the journey because you've been part of something like that.

SPEAKER_01 37:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:29

What's the story behind that?

SPEAKER_01 37:31

Being an artist is such a cool calling. Um, I think everyone's an artist. Um, it says like God created, and that's the first thing we hear. God created, and then we're it created in the image of God. So we are all creators and we're all artists. To then be called into that as a career um is such an amazing, amazing thing, right? To get to glorify God and the talent that He's given me. I think it can get lost for sure. Um just like you look at TV and you look at film and you look at Broadway and you look at music, and it's easy to get caught up in like all of those things glorifying the world. And so, how can you exist in a show that glorifies the world, glorifies self? I think a lot of artists, um, if you're not careful, like believers included, can backslide into this idea of like um just self-glorification. I mean, even now, like you look at like the Instagram is your resume. And when you get hired for a lot of jobs now, it says, please include your Instagram handle.

SPEAKER_04 38:36

100% kind of.

SPEAKER_01 38:37

And then they go look at your Instagram handle, and depending on the pictures they see and the videos they see and the number of followers you have, you may or may not get the job. So then what does that do? Even if you're like guarding yourself against that, if you're being careful and discerning, you know, what do I want to share? What do I not want to share? Do the followers matter to me? Like that affects how you navigate your day-to-day as an artist because you're like, oh, wait, like I do need to post on my Instagram or whatever. And is this, is this really just self-glorification? Is this essential? Can God bless what I'm doing without that? So there's just there's so much gray area and there's so much tension that I think like God can be glorified in a lot of it. If you're like, please like uh like refine me and purify me in this and help me to discern what is going to glorify you and what isn't. I think the biggest shift for me has been drawing new boundary lines. There's a verse that says, like, um, my your boundary, my boundary lines are in pleasant places. Um, and so like speaking that and believing, like, okay, there might be boundary lines that God is gonna place on you as an artist in a secular industry. And those are going to be beautiful and beneficial for you if you stay within those boundary lines. Um, I think I I wish that I had had someone speaking a little bit more clearly into as a young artist going into this world, you know, I was on cruise ships and then I traveled all over the US doing different regional shows. And it's like a lot of that was great. And then I look back on some of the jobs that I took and I'm like, God's sure purified me a lot in the last two years. Like, yeah, look back seven years ago, like, what have I said yes to that job? Like, probably not. Five years ago, would I have said yes to that job? Like, I don't know. Um, I know the Lord still blesses that because sanctification is such a lifelong process. But I think to the artist who is in the industry trying to navigate it as a believer, just like continuing to pray for discernment and like the word is it. Like if you're daily in the word and you're feasting on the goodness of God, like he is going to refine and purify you. And I think that goes beyond dancers. Like, that's dancers, like singers, actors, models, like whatever, musicians, podcasts, yeah, like whatever, like whatever you're doing to do unto the glory of God and just pray for wisdom and discernment. Because I think it was, wasn't it Lucifer like the like angel of music? Yeah.

unknown 41:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:14

In heaven.

SPEAKER_00 41:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:15

So of course, like, of course, the music industry and the entertainment industry is going to be filled with temptation.

SPEAKER_00 41:22

So powerful. So, so powerful, right?

SPEAKER_01 41:25

So when we're existing in a world that is really truly dominated by the angel of music, um, how can we still be salt and light and not how can we be salt and light and be in the world but not of the world? And still glorify God with our talent.

SPEAKER_03 41:43

Mic drop right there. Wow.

SPEAKER_00 41:45

Yeah. Um, how'd you follow up with that? That's amazing, God. Wow. God's good. That's epic. Beautiful. Thank you. Uh, you know, um we're about to wrap this thing up, but this is my thinking. I'm thinking about that um the challenges that comes with um I was talking with a friend this week, we're hanging out, and uh, I had to ask her this question because she's into modeling and stuff. Yeah. And the challenge, the challenge is if you get rejected um for a certain gig or something, it is not your career alone. Someone is saying to you that uh you're not skinny enough, you're not beautiful enough, yeah, your hair is not pulled back, right? You're yeah, you have a little bit of extra two pounds on yourself for what we are looking for. Can you imagine? That ties into your your all right, then it is wrapped up into this thing that you're doing, and that is never easy.

SPEAKER_03 42:40

My question to you, what would you tell a young performing artist? Like how should they go about this? How did me put it this way? What would you say to a young self? And all these things will be added to you.

SPEAKER_01 43:10

I think it's so easy to strive and think that it's everything in your own might and your own power. I get emotional because it really is all about him.

SPEAKER_03 43:24

And when it becomes about you, you lose it, you know.

SPEAKER_01 43:28

If I was looking at my younger self, I would just say, seek first the kingdom and all these things will be added to you. Do not worry about tomorrow, like what you'll eat, what you'll drink, what you'll wear. Like surely he closed the lilies, you know? Um so yeah, I don't know why that struck a chord, but yeah, just in a world that glorifies beauty, like yeah, to seek versus kingdom, because he's gonna he's gonna illuminate the path. Illuminate the path for you. Um and just staying in step with the Lord for sure as you navigate like a crazy industry. I think that goes for anybody too.

SPEAKER_03 44:14

Should all churches embrace worship dance? That'd be cool. That'd be cool. That'd be really cool. I think we have a ways to go. Should s maybe we should start with like a few.

SPEAKER_01 44:34

You know, like let's let's get a few churches on board with worship dance and like see what the Lord does and let that be a testimony, you know?

SPEAKER_00 44:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:43

That'd be really awesome to see.

SPEAKER_00 44:45

This is gonna be one of the last ones that I get to check.

SPEAKER_03 44:49

Why why why worship dance? Why worship dance?

SPEAKER_01 44:56

I think God has given us He is anointed artists, He's anointed dancers, He's anointed singers with this gift and we are to glorify Him with it. And what a what a gift it is to be to be graced with this talent and to then just give it back to the feet of the Father. Um so Yeah, I mean I think using our body to worship the Lord, not just with our voice, but with our whole being, our whole being rejoices. I think that would be that would be it.

SPEAKER_00 45:37

I feel chills because I got reminded of uh Psalms 103. I bless the Lord all my soul and all that is within me.

SPEAKER_03 45:48

Bless his holy name. For someone who's out there and you're wondering whether you should dance or not.

SPEAKER_00 45:58

Actually, instead of me saying that, I feel like sorry you could speak so much into this. For someone who's out there and they are not thinking they're gifted enough to dance, what would you say to them?

SPEAKER_01 46:11

Putting the pressure on.

SPEAKER_00 46:13

I played like reverse own on you.

SPEAKER_01 46:16

Like, let me let me speak a word. Just kidding, Sarah's gonna speak a word, okay? Is this thing on?

SPEAKER_03 46:23

What was the question with Peter? Okay.

SPEAKER_00 46:35

Oh, this is so fun. Um oh Jesus. I have a friend of mine. Uh, every single time he he's ever actually the only time he's ever encountered God, he says he's ever manifested his legs started shaking.

SPEAKER_02 46:49

That's how that's giving full body praise.

SPEAKER_00 46:53

So remind me of my friend, but um there's someone who's out there that's thinking I'm not gifted to dance.

SPEAKER_03 47:02

What would you say to them?

SPEAKER_01 47:04

I think everyone, everyone has a dance. I just I love going back to that. It's like everyone has a song, everyone has a dance. Whether it's in church or in a studio or in your bedroom with the door closed, I think there's power in just like praising God with everything. And so anyone can dance, anyone can sing, every anyone can make music unto the Lord. We are all created by God in his image as an artist and as a creative. So I think lean in. Move your body for the Lord.

SPEAKER_00 47:37

There it is, Colton. You have it. Go home, shut the doors, turn off the lights, and boom, it's a wrap. Magic's gonna happen in there. Thank you so much for being with us today. Uh, we had such an amazing uh time talking about worship dance. Uh Sarah, we wanted to honor you and say thank you for coming on the show. Other than that, would you be able to close us out in prayer? Say whatever that is on your heart.

SPEAKER_01 47:57

Yeah. God, I thank you for your hand on this city. Lord, I thank you for just speaking today, speaking to the artist, the singer, the dancer, um, the broken heart, the rejoicing heart. Lord, you are in it all. Thank you for going before us and hemming us in from behind, Lord. You are with us. And God, I just pray just a blessing over the artists of New York City, Lord, that your um, that your angels would just like guide and protect us, God, that you would just rise up believers on fire for you that can speak the word of God and speak our your testimony of what you've done in our lives, Lord, through movement, through music. Um yeah, you have your hand on the creative community, God. And we are just so believing for um the revival that's gonna happen um and what you're gonna do and the artists across New York City. Bless Lucky, bless his team in Jesus' name. Amen.

SPEAKER_00 48:51

Amen. If you need flags, email style at baba.com. I'm just joking, guys. Uh, thanks so much, and uh may God bless you. This is the Everything Kingdom podcast. Until then, cheers.