Everything Kingdom Podcast

Painting with the Holy Spirit | Worship That You Can See | Mackenzie Maisel

• Lucky Reagan Njumba • Season 2 • Episode 15

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🎨 Painting with the Holy Spirit | Worship That You Can See | Mackenzie Maisel

What if worship wasn't just something you sing... but something you could see?

In this episode of the Everything Kingdom Podcast, host Lucky explores the beautiful intersection of prophetic painting, creativity, and the presence of God. Discover how art can become an act of worship, a prophetic expression, and a powerful way to encounter the Holy Spirit.
Whether you've been painting for years or have never picked up a brush, this conversation will encourage you to create from intimacy with God rather than performance. Learn how the Holy Spirit speaks through colors, symbols, and creativity, and why worship extends far beyond music.

✨ In this episode, you'll discover:
• What prophetic painting is (and what it isn't)
• How creativity becomes an expression of worship
• Learning to hear God's voice through art
• The biblical foundation for creativity and worship
• Practical encouragement to step out in faith and create with God.

God is the ultimate Creator, and because we're made in His image, creativity is part of our Kingdom identity. Our prayer is that this episode inspires you to worship with freedom, create with boldness, and encounter Jesus in a fresh way.

📖 "See, I have chosen Bezalel... and I have filled him with the Spirit of God, with wisdom, with understanding, with knowledge and with all kinds of skills." — Exodus 31:2–5

If this episode encouraged you, don't forget to Like, Subscribe, and Share it with someone who loves worship, art, or wants to grow in hearing the voice of God.

👇 We'd love to hear from you!
Have you ever experienced God through creativity? Let us know your story in the comments.

#EverythingKingdomPodcast #onearthasitisinheaven #PropheticPainting #Worship #HolySpirit #ChristianArtist #KingdomCreativity #PropheticArt #CreativeWorship #FaithAndArt #ChristianPodcast #KingdomCulture #Jesus #WorshipLifestyle #Exodus31

SPEAKER_04

Whoa, this might be what I'm here for. Like this might be my purpose is making these things that invite people into a conversation about what could be gonna be talking to us.

SPEAKER_03

Welcome back to the Everything Kingdom podcast. My name is Loki, I'm your host, and I'm so thankful today that I have my good friend in the studio with me. Her name is Mackenzie Mazel. She's a professional artist, creative, and a painter. Yeah. She does prophetic art and so many other things that she does, but I can't wait for you guys to get to know her. I'm so happy that you're in the studio.

SPEAKER_05

Thank you, me too. Thank you for coming on. It's so exciting.

SPEAKER_03

We're gonna have so much fun today. I agree. I really feel that.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, I feel like I feel the energy.

SPEAKER_03

So, but before we get to do any of the things, uh, we are going to break bread. Uh, this is something we love doing here. And uh thank you so much for those that are listening and watching this episode. We pray that the Lord gets to meet you uh in the provision of his body, the same way he does for us every single day. We declare that by his stripes we are healed.

SPEAKER_02

Let's take the bread together. Yeah, thank you, Lord. Thank you for this cup.

SPEAKER_03

The overflow of your blood, the forgiveness of our sins, God. Thank you that you laid down your life, King Jesus, that you will be forgiven of our sins. We take this on behalf of our listeners, uh, that you would extend the greatness of your mercy towards them. And we take this on behalf of our city. And we declare that as for me and my city we'll serve the Lord.

SPEAKER_02

Don't you love this? This is amazing.

SPEAKER_03

I love it.

SPEAKER_05

This is amazing. I love that you do this, Lucky.

SPEAKER_03

And I love the fact that uh when you're trying to rush and the bread you can't like eat it on the inside, like it's not softening enough. So I love that part. Um, but Mackenzie, would you introduce yourself to our listeners and our viewers that don't know you at all?

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, absolutely. What are you?

SPEAKER_03

What do you do and all this stuff?

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, I'm my name is Mackenzie Mazel, and I moved to New York City around three years ago. I'm an artist, a creative, and you know, woman of God. I met Lucky at church, and I, you know, love this podcast. I love that I get to be here today, and I also have a gift for you today.

SPEAKER_01

Okay, whoa.

SPEAKER_04

Um, but it's kind of like what I'm moving into. So I do a lot of paintings, but I also have been like making my paintings into these sort of like little coffee table books that you can like have.

SPEAKER_05

This is the manuscript version, so there might be some typos.

SPEAKER_04

Oh my gosh. Here's another one. These are from like the different collections I do of my paintings and stuff.

SPEAKER_03

These are so beautiful. This is amazing.

SPEAKER_04

My last, my gift for you. This this frame, you might have to reframe it, but it's um like Reading and then also New York City for you because Hold on. You did that? Yeah, I did that for you. Because you you spent three years in Reading, and then now you're here in New York on this new adventure. And so I just wanted to pray for you and bless you with that and give you that painting. And then also I do these like little um coloring books and stuff. So um, Colton, if you want this.

SPEAKER_03

Oh my gosh. This is so beautiful. I don't know what to say. This is so precious. Oh, I'm glad you like it. Oh wow. Oh wow, the fact that this is Reading and this is New York City, and you did this. Yes, it's so intentional. Oh, thanks. How did you come up with this? This is so amazing.

SPEAKER_04

Well, I was praying about like coming on here and talking to you, so I was like, you know what? Gonna bring my my stuff.

SPEAKER_03

I need to show this to our viewers. This is incredible work. Like, thank you. Reading and New York City. The story, are those angels or angels?

SPEAKER_05

Angels, yes. Okay, you don't have to hold all of it, you can put it back in. No, I literally I am so blown away. Oh my gosh. Well, thank you, Lucky. Thanks for having me. I'm blown away by this podcast.

SPEAKER_03

This is impressive. Thank you. This is so kind of you. Thank you. I feel like now my coffee doesn't even come any closer towards working.

SPEAKER_05

No, this is this makes me so happy walking in and having the tea. I was like, oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_03

Thank you. Yeah, of course. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_05

Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_03

We can end the episode right here, right now. This is this is already a great time. Thank you. Yes, thank you. So you are a generous person. I would have to say that now. I was introducing you as an artist. In a creative person, she's also generous. That's all it's on the record. But go ahead.

SPEAKER_04

You are generous as well. Yeah. Thank you for having me. Um, yeah, so I'm an artist and then recently just been making these little books. And I also exist in like multiple creative worlds here in New York City. And I'm just excited to see where God takes me, where life takes me. And yeah, that's kind of my my whole intro, my my vibe.

SPEAKER_03

So, where are you originally from?

SPEAKER_04

I'm originally from Boston. I was born there, and then I grew up in Ohio. My family's all from like Ohio and Kentucky area. So that's where I spent most of my childhood, and that's where I went to college. And um, during college, I did an internship here in New York City, and I was like, ooh, I love New York City. I was used to staying. Yes, I I love New York. So then um, the place I interned at gave me a full-time offer, and I came back to New York, like right out of college. And I don't work there anymore. But now I'm full-time artist and been living the dream, you know. Every day I've been kind of chipping away at what, you know, I want to do in the art world, what I want to do in New York City, and what I want to do with my life. So yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Wow. There's so much in there, it's just beautiful. Your journey to Boston and then Ohio, but New York City, uh, internship, and then now you work here. Yeah. Like, did you grow up as an artist in your house? Like, how did that start? Tell me, tell our listeners behind the story, but like, what is the story behind art?

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, that's that's a good question. Honestly, my family was the type of family that encouraged us to like try everything. So, all my siblings, I'm the youngest of like four kids, like three older siblings, and I always born into a party. Um but, anyways, they um I wanted to be a lot like them, so I would try a lot of the things they did. But you know, my sister, I tried all the things she did, you know, try out for sports she tried out for, but she grew to be like over six foot. She was a beast athlete.

SPEAKER_05

So I thought I had to call it somewhere where I was like, I don't know if I can be the volleyball player she is.

SPEAKER_04

Um, but I did, I tried like um an art class because she was doing it and I wanted to be like her. And I ended up loving it. And then I had some like high school art teachers that really encouraged me and saw my passion for art. And I was a very yappy kid, which is fitting that I'm on this with you today. I had a lot to say. And my dad always used to be like, okay, Kenzie, like put it in a nutshell. Like, what do you have to say? Like summarize it a little. Not in like a, you know, in a in a kind way, but um my paintings became that for me, like where I could I have so many thoughts, so many ideas, and I could just put them in one place. And, you know, if people understood them, they understood them. If they didn't, they didn't. And it was like saying something. And so that was really exciting for me. And um, I w was looking at colleges all over the world and you know, got some scholarships, like even in Europe and stuff. But then um, I was all my siblings ended up going to Cincinnati where I'm from.

SPEAKER_05

And I'm like, I can't miss out. They're right there.

SPEAKER_04

Like, so I ended up going to school to be like in their community as as well. And it was a dream and it was so great because of the internship program with my college. I was like, I think it was just perfect path that like God wanted me on to get a little taste in New York and then end up here. So yeah, I also just think my my family has a value for the arts and my town that I grew up in had the value for the arts. Like there was great art teachers, great um, you know, an art center. And my um mother's side is very creative. Like they are all musicians, um, look very talented. Like my uncle was in the bluegrass band, my um grandma was an organist at a church forever, and then my mom is a beautiful voice, and then um my grandpa was a painter, and my other grandpa was a painter on my other side. So it's it runs deep, you know? Wow.

SPEAKER_03

Literally, everything, every single person you mentioned is either in some measure, some way. Exactly. The grace to create, the grace for art, the grace for like, you know, everything like to do with creativity and music and anything in between is amazing.

SPEAKER_06

Yeah, thank you. So that's your world.

SPEAKER_03

That's what I'm that's my world.

SPEAKER_06

That's where I'm gonna go.

SPEAKER_03

The pressure though, to like, you know, if I grew up in a family like that, the pressure to become something or to do something like that.

SPEAKER_04

Oh my goodness. Yeah. No, I think honestly, some of the pressure too, like my dad, he played like like college basketball. He was very athletic. So a lot of my siblings chose a little bit of that route. But they are very talented too, like almost sneaky. Like like my brothers wouldn't admit it. Like they're like great at music and stuff, but they they don't always show it. And so it's it wasn't it didn't feel like pressure, but it felt like it was a value in our family. Like that, like, okay, they created room for us to be whatever we wanted to be and express ourselves. And I think that that was beautiful and a healthy place to grow up instead of pressure, you know.

SPEAKER_03

So did you catch that? It was never pressure, it was actually value. And that makes a whole lot of a difference. I feel like that is such like a heavenly can like download a mic drop, like stick that in. That's very well done.

SPEAKER_04

Thank you.

SPEAKER_03

So then you moved from Cincinnati to New York City.

SPEAKER_04

I did, yeah. Moved, um, I think I was like still I was still in school, so I still had a year left, but I did an internship. It was just like one semester here in New York, and I was like, ooh, I love it. And then they offered me full time, and so I just decided to come to New York. And um, I've I loved the job that I did. It was in the art appraisal world. And so I was still in the arts and I worked with kind of like the high-end galleries, museums, auction houses, collectors. And um, we did more of like the business side of things, the intellectual side of things. Sounds fancy. It was very fancy sometimes. But I feel like I learned from some really cool people, like the utmost expert in one niche art subject, and people would come to them and get their advice on things. And I just got to listen, be a listening ear. And that really informed my like creativity, but also my network here in New York. Like I met so many cool people, and I was like, oh wow, like that was my launching pad. And I feel like God was strategic in doing that instead of just having me be an artist right when I moved to New York. Like I was doing it a little in the background, and then it became like more of my full-time gig. And I was like, okay, I gotta quit my day job because I really gotta lock in, take this serious. So um, that was a bit of the trajectory, but I'm so grateful for you know, how that like golden brick road like laid out for me. And I think that was totally God.

SPEAKER_03

So all I can hear in what you're telling as your story, our listeners get to know you, is the grace for how God has put people around you, community from growing up, even coming to New York City. He set you up for success by putting the right people around you before you do what he's called you to do.

SPEAKER_04

That's a great way to put it. Look, I feel like that's like you read my mail, read my teeth. Like that's honestly, I I feel like the biggest threat in my life has been the people. And I, you know, I believe what I believe now because of course I think it's right, and I I believe it because I know it's true, but I think it I believe it because the way people have loved me and the way people have shown up in my life. And that means, you know, everybody from New York to like when I was growing up. And I think that that's really special that um like I get to kind of like learn about that and express that through my paintings, but it's not it's not confined to that, that I can jump off of like, oh, I'm a painter, but also I'm like a people person and that I meet people from all walks of life here in New York. And I think that's kind of like the exciting part, like the gold.

SPEAKER_03

So I that's a great way to put it the way you said it. I'm like, yeah. So how did you meet Jesus?

SPEAKER_04

Okay, that's a good question.

SPEAKER_05

I mean, I feel like my testimony is not one of the ones there, it's like boom, one day it happened. It's one of those gradual ones. Those are the best. Those are the best I love. They always I always get goosebumps.

SPEAKER_04

But um, as I mentioned before, I was born in Boston, and my parents were in full-time ministry out in Boston, and my dad was getting his seminary degree. And so, you know, like faith runs deep in us. And like I had two aunts that were two great aunts that were nuns, and I had one, a grandma who was an organist in a church, my dad has his seminary. So it's very, you know, intertwined to our family and our conversation. But when my mother was pregnant with me, she we had something called RH incompatibility. So um, our blood was fighting against each other. And so the doctor said, you know, hey, I don't know if she's gonna make it. And if she does make it, she's gonna have a lot of complications um health-wise or in life. And my parents were, you know, I was the youngest of four. So they were like, okay, we're gonna um pray for this baby. And, you know, whatever happens with the pregnancy, like we just pray that it's God's glory. And so that was their prayer. They just wanted to be like, okay, you know, if she makes it, if she doesn't, that's okay.

SPEAKER_03

The nurses and the doctors.

SPEAKER_04

That was my parents' prayer. So the nurses and the doctors, they didn't really like know God or whatever, but um my my mom was like about a week out from doing something called an in utero blood transfusion where they like transfuse your blood together to try and like heal the. Yeah, I was shaking my head like I know what that means. You know it.

SPEAKER_05

Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_04

And I have no clue.

SPEAKER_05

I don't know what it means either really.

SPEAKER_04

But um anyway, so they were about a week out from doing that. And since my parents were in ministry, they asked people all around the world to say a prayer for um for my mother's pregnancy and me as a baby. And they came in, and that week the doctor came in and he was like, Oh my goodness, I don't know what happened. Um, the baby is like completely healthy. Like, there's no RHN compatibility. Like the thing that was so bad that they needed to do this like transfusion or like this this procedure while my mother was pregnant was totally gone. And so nurses and doctors came in and they were like looking at it. And since my parents were living in Boston, this um hospital was like a teaching hospital. And so, like Harvard students were studying it. Like I was a case study for Harvard students, and so that's always like where I people were like, Oh, you start your testimony.

SPEAKER_05

And I always start at the very beginning, like literally when I was born, which is kind of you know, extra. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

But um, I feel like that framed a lot of like growing up for me. My parents would always like be like, you know, McKenzie, you you're a miracle. You're here for a reason. And sometimes that is wonderful, but sometimes there was a lot of pressure on me. Yeah, 100%. I'm like, what do you mean I'm a miracle? Like, but I think I truly think like humans and like our ability to be here on earth and with each other is a miracle. And so I think that really launched, I have such a curiosity with what purpose is and what um life here on earth like means and that what it means to be like looking for God and connecting with God. And so I feel like I grew up in that context of always having faith. But then um, it kind of became a little more real when I was in like middle school. I felt like he just kind of came into my circumstances. Like I said some prayers and I was like, okay, like I can actually give up like all my fears and all my worries and be like, you know what, God helped me with this. And that was when I had that change. And then in high school, my family was going through some stuff, and we were seeking all kinds of things and all all of these different routes. And a lot of our, you know, normal spiritual methods of prayer and stuff weren't really leading us somewhere. And then, you know, we heard about some of these Holy Spirit movements, like one of those. Yeah, one of those. And so we were a little like some people in my family were going through stuff. So we were a little desperate and we were like, oh, we'll go out and see. And that's when I really started going to Reading and when when I started kind of diving into deep, like of what the Holy Spirit meant and what like heaven means. And it became a bit of a fixation for me, like wanting more of heaven, wanting more of what the Holy Spirit is in day-to-day life. And to me, that means like being supernaturally like natural, like in times when we're just laughing, but like also that God is there and like just striking a chord with like heaven on earth. And so that was like the journey throughout high school. And then in college, I um we talked about this a bit. Like I I led Young Life and you're um, you know, connected with that. I I led Young Life Capernaum, which is for um, you know, students with developmental disabilities. And some of those students are still some of my like best friends. Like I call them and um every day. But it it felt like to me, like instead of just beliefs or mindsets or ideas, it felt like walk in the walk, like that I get to care for these like people in my life and I get to love them and be in a relationship with them. So I feel like that's my arc of it's not really a testimony that's like boom.

SPEAKER_03

It is just beautiful because I wanted our our listeners and our audience actually to get to know you. Oh, yeah. Because the work that you do and what you're involved in is so unique and so different. But at the same time, you live in a city of creatives.

SPEAKER_06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

People create here a lot, and someone comes in a city like New York City, you're like, where do I even begin? So hearing your story into how you got into a city could be an inspiration for someone else who's planning to make a move. Yes, how do I even start? So that's why I wanted to start there because I want to introduce the subject of um uh prophetic art or prophetic worship or whatever you call it, like uh worship art. People that have seen in some of the meetings that you guys have been in, you've seen someone on stage, worship is ongoing and they are painting something. Uh on a like a canvas that's just like nothing's on there, and then you start right away painting. And that's what you do. Uh but you've done that like in different spaces, but right now you do painting professionally in a marketplace, but incorporating that with how heaven sees what it's like as God gives you downloads and all that. I wanted to switch gears by bringing you into that kind of conversation of like you paint professionally.

SPEAKER_04

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03

When do that start?

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, I think it was always a dream of mine, but I think that sometimes you're a little scared to admit as a creative that, like, oh, I want to do this full time, because you know, a lot of people in America were or you know, it where I grew up in the Midwest, they can't really conceptualize actually, you know, making money from what this is. And I think sometimes you don't always have to have it be making money. Like it you don't tell every person who's a good cook like you should start a restaurant, you know, like that kind of thing. Yeah. But I think um it was really kind of a path to learning, like, okay, this is really what I want to do. And um I think with in art, I had a couple times when I was like leading, you know, worship on stage back in Ohio. And, you know, someone would be like, Oh, put up a painting and paint for us up on stage.

SPEAKER_03

So you were a worship leader.

SPEAKER_04

I was, I yeah. And so I was like, I didn't, I didn't sing on stage, but I was I was painting on stage. And then I would have so many people come up to me after that and say, Oh my goodness, like your painting brought breakthrough, or like I was thinking about something and then you painted it. And I was like, What? I was like, how in the world? And I think like when I was in high school, I had I always like talked, I try to talk to God and I try to hear him. And I feel like I get like downloads more in like visual senses. Like I'll get words sometimes, sometimes scripture, but I feel like it's mainly just like little movies or little pictures. And I would tell people those things and they would be encouraging. Sometimes they would hit home, sometimes they wouldn't. But then there was times I would get more like general things, like for the city, for um like my stage of life that I was in. And I didn't know what to do with those always. And so I just translated them into my paintings. And I think that like that was when I kind of struck lightning, and I'm like, whoa, this might be what I'm here for. Like this might be my purpose, is making these things that invite people into a conversation about what could God be talking to us about, or could he be talking to us every day? Or is heaven here with us right now? You know, that kind of thing.

SPEAKER_03

So that is amazing. For someone who's out there and their hearing was like downloads, that's like when you have an idea that you know you didn't come up with that idea. It's only like God or you have an idea that you didn't come up with, but then you get to partner with that, and then you get to see God get his full reward by you being obedient towards that. But I love the fact that you open the conversation about hearing God as an artist.

SPEAKER_04

Yes.

SPEAKER_03

There's no artist that I know that is like even those that are not following God, I know to the depth of my soul that actually God speaks to them. Oh my goodness, yes, yeah. You can in a human incapacity, there's only so much you can come up with.

SPEAKER_06

Yes.

SPEAKER_03

But to include God in your story, in having to open up a conversation, God speaks to me, and then he gives you imagery and movies in your head. How does that work?

SPEAKER_04

I agree. And I I feel like that's a great way to put it. It's like I remember I had a professor in college, and I would he knew I was Christian and he knew about my faith, but he wasn't there and he didn't have the same beliefs. But he's like, you know, there are times when I've been painting, and I feel like maybe that is when I believe in God, because I'll get an idea and I'm like, where did that come from? And I'm like, there's a there's another level. And I think, you know, like the name of your podcast being about kingdom is kind of what all my paintings are about, is that there's another dimension or there's another, another element going on like simultaneous as us as our natural. Like all the time.

SPEAKER_02

Wow.

SPEAKER_04

And like we can tap into that through the Holy Spirit or we can tap into that through God. And so, like, you know, artists always are trying to kind of manufacture ways of coming up with ideas and things. And I remember hearing like some stat, I don't really know what it was, but like how many like movies and like ideas and great pieces of art have come out of like dreams and visions.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

And like it's crazy. Like, um, I think like the song Let It Be, you know, it was come came from an actual dream, like a dream of Mother Mary coming to me. Like that was an actual dream that they had. And I was like, whoa, that's cool. That like our dream state or like this other when we tap into that is what times when God talks to us or when creativity comes alive. And so I feel like making art kind of feels like trying to make manifest or make a thin place and being like, oh, I get a window into heaven, or I get a window into that place that, you know, where ideas come from or something like that. So not always. I mean, I'm not saying I'm not saying my paintings are heaven, but it's it's trying to like strike that chord, trying to like tap in and be like, okay, hey, like what could heaven trying to be say?

SPEAKER_03

So let's get this straight. Yeah. You hear God's voice. He speaks to us. Yes. And then the way you hear his voice is through imagery. It's through visions. It's like an I obstruct idea, then you get to cooperate or like partner with it. Yeah. Then it becomes manifest as an actual painting.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, kind of. I mean, that's a good thing.

SPEAKER_06

I guess that's what I would say. That's the problem.

SPEAKER_03

You're very good. Like in talking to what you do, most artists that do paint stuff, they let their painting or their work do the talking. Yeah. You do, you're very good in communicator, but also you're your art is amazing. It's really good. But if you haven't paid attention yet, this is one of her work, and I'm about to talk about this in a minute. But I wanted to sit here for a minute. Yeah. To someone, because like I've read, uh, even sitting in here, I was reading about all the famous painters. Oh my goodness, yeah. Yeah, actually, Christians. Oh my goodness, there's so many. Do you have like a favorite?

SPEAKER_04

I have so many favorites. I think like a lot of the Renaissance art and stuff like that. Like, I love Michelangelo. I love like, I don't know, Leonardo da Vinci, all these people, but like um, I love Chigal. I love also like surrealism, it's which is all about like dreams. So like Salvador Dolly, the guy with the melting clocks, like all of that. But I h love like movements. And I think also I love medieval art, um, which is like kind of the a lot of the gold stuff. If you ever walk through the Met, it's like super almost cartoony looking, and then there's just a bunch of gold. Oh, yeah. Women didn't understand it.

SPEAKER_03

What is that? What is I need someone could help me?

SPEAKER_04

No, honestly, and I think like the gold stuff, like it that ends up in all my paintings because I love those pieces, but it was at a unique time in history when um like the Protestant Reformation, and then there's also like the Byzantine idea of like this word called iconoclasm, where people would ruin images of God. And it was maybe for religious reasons or for non-religious reasons, where people would like, oh, we don't think it's good to represent God um in our theology, or like thinking like like God should be holy and just in our spirit and that kind of thing, versus there's other people that just would ruin it. And I think it's interesting to talk about like in more like a mainly secular culture or in a world like New York City where God doesn't seem like he's always moving, like from the outside looking in, but thinking about what might it be that if God was actually there or if like, you know, heaven was like an angel walking in the middle of all these skyscrapers.

SPEAKER_03

You know what I mean? So I I put that up because I wanted to read something for you that I'm gonna be. Oh my gosh, yeah, I'd love to see it. Uh, now that I have the computer, I get to read this right here. I think um so uh is it Vincent uh Van Gogh? Like they say they say to him right here that before finding his calling as an artist, Van Gogh was actually an intensely zealed Christian minister. He was a minister. Oh my goodness, yeah.

SPEAKER_04

I know. Isn't that wild? Like it actually blows my mind. And I do, I think like there's so many times I've had conversations with artists that, you know, say they aren't Christian or, you know, say they believe in something else. And I'm like, they're having the same conversations I'm having with people in church. And like I think the mind of a creative is very similar to the mind of someone who's really in the Holy Spirit. It's very like guided and like open to whatever creativity takes you versus like people who I've met in church are very open to wherever God takes them. And I think that's beautiful. And there's something in that like muscle of being a creative and like just experiencing kind of the unknown that I think is also in faith and in Christianity, which people don't always, you know, connect the two, but it's crazy. It's amazing.

SPEAKER_03

It's amazing. I yeah, I I I find it really fun, but I wanted to bring this conversation to um the reason as to why you paint. Yeah. You did prophetic art on stage as a worship leader. Yeah, you're painting a piece, you're bringing this idea, like you feel like God gave you this idea to paint something like that, and people are coming to you after uh worship is done or service is done, they're like, hey, I was thinking about that. Oh, God was speaking to me about that, and then I saw you paint it on the stage.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

What does that say about God? What does that say about you? What does that say about a person who's walking around? He has no idea of what you're doing.

SPEAKER_04

Oh my goodness. I think I think it says a lot. It's a good question. I mean, honestly, those times like have been really humbling. Like the the moments when it feels like a electric when someone says something like that, or like also humbling, but it's like, oh my goodness, like I gotta be a part of that. I gotta be a part of what God's speaking to you. Like that feels special, that feels holy. And I think that that's where it's like, oh my goodness, I'm just a vessel. Like it's so humbling. Like where you're like, okay, I might have all these ideas about like, oh, my painting today wasn't that good, or my painting was good, versus like the idea of what if it was just what someone needed to hear, or what if it was just what someone needed to see, like what I did that day. And that's like where I it's not about me, it's about like just trusting, like letting God move where he wants to move, and then being like, okay, like that's I feel like that's so humbling. It's like a vessel moment. And I think like, would you feel the same way for like times when you like your podcast or your words or like things that you've done in the spirit like have hit people? Like, do you feel kind of like it's like whoa, that's electric.

SPEAKER_03

Actually, every single time I feel like I don't know either what I'm doing or is what I'm doing worth it? Every single time God brings someone with a comment, or someone reaches out, like, because of that episode that you had, God called me back to what I abandoned, or God released me of this, or God healed me of this. Oh my god, stories like that. We are not doing this for ourselves, we are doing this in partnership with heaven for God to do in people what only He can do. We are just setting a table for other people to encounter God or to have experiences with God. And I feel like that's what you do. In my heart, like I'm looking for uh like have you had like a favorite, like I don't know, let me put it this way, like because all your work is phenomenal. I've looked at your work.

SPEAKER_00

Thank you. It's amazing.

SPEAKER_03

I don't think I can come up with any of that kind of stuff. It's ridiculous.

SPEAKER_00

Like, why don't you come up with this?

SPEAKER_03

You're very kind. But what what has spoken to you the most?

SPEAKER_04

Ooh. And why? That's a good question. Oh my goodness. I think there there's times when I'll look back at like things that God did or like the a painting I did and I didn't feel confident in it in the moment. But then I'll look back and I'm like, oh my goodness, like he was doing something there. I'll tell a like kind of funny story. Like it's crazy. I was um when I was in high school, I did a like college credit plus program or like a college summer program at the Art Institute of Chicago. And um, this was a pretty, you know, like kind of intense program. And I was a little nervous walking in. And my teacher was like renowned to be like one of the most intense teachers, like very in a good way. Like he he brought out the best in people, but he was very intense. So like I was a little nervous walking in every day. And there was one day we were working on a painting for like it could have been like eight hours. And um, he walked around the room and he like took a rag and wiped someone's painting. And he was like trying to like treat it like teach a message of like, oh, it's not permanent, and it's like it's just a painting kind of thing. And he's like, restart that area. And so that was the context of like I was walking in there every day and I was nervous because I was this was my first time away from home for an extended period of time. And so I walked in and I prayed, and I was like, you know, I don't know, like I feel like a small fish in like a big pond because everybody's good at art there. And um, I walked in and I was like, okay, I don't care if any of my painting is good today. I just like I prayed that I would do it for God and that if if it's bad, like it would still be on the refrigerator of heaven and like God and the angels would be like, Well, you did something, you know, you showed up for me. And so I I showed up that day with that prayer, and I was like just letting go of the pressure. And I was like, okay, I I'm just gonna do this for like myself and for God and as a prayer. And my teacher didn't really know I was like Christian, like I didn't really tell him, but he probably kind of knew.

SPEAKER_03

I don't know. She was weird.

SPEAKER_04

She was weird with a little spray. Exactly. But he had an exercise that day. So we were painting um like a person that was in the room. And he had an exercise where you we would pick a like a word, one word title, and then we hadn't done the background yet. And he would pick a word that matches it. And then based on those two words together, we would make the rest of the painting in the background. And so mine, mine was like just like it was like kind of like dull colors. So I just picked the word deserted. It felt kind of like sad or something. But I don't know. And then he came around and he picked like weird words for other people.

SPEAKER_05

He was like, he said like skateboard for someone and like just random stuff.

SPEAKER_04

Like, so he wasn't on a theme or anything, but the word he said for mine was Messiah. And I was like, oh my goodness, like just does he know I'm Christian? Like what like this painting wasn't of Jesus, it was of like the person in the room that I was painting. And I was like, when is a time when like deserted a messiah? Because that was the title then. Like I had that word, he had the word Messiah. And I was like, oh my goodness, it was like Jesus on the cross was deserted. He was like, Where are you, God? Like, why have you forsaken me? And I felt like, oh my goodness, like my prayer was heard this morning. And I felt like God gave me that, not as a download, but as a way of saying, you know, I'm here. Like I'm here with you in the moments when you feel unsure, you feel distant. All of that. So that moment was crazy. And that painting is still like, you know, it's not my favorite, like technically, like when I look at it, but that is one of my favorite memories when I look at that painting. I'm like, oh my goodness, God showed up and he showed me he was speaking to me in that moment because someone from the outside literally saw God who he wasn't Christian, and I don't think he knew I was Christian. He probably saw maybe a cross necklace one day or something and said Messiah, but who knows? I feel like that moment was like an answered prayer. And so that painting felt like like a testament to that. So that's maybe one of my favorite paintings.

SPEAKER_03

It is uh I was starting to look something up because um when you just shared that, I've recognized like uh there's where Apostle Paul was talking about a group of people talking to them about Jesus, and he referenced artists and created a musician. He said, Your prophets and your artists and your musicians, they talk about him without knowing who they are talking about. This is whom I am introducing. The unknown God is Jesus. So even people that have no grip of who Jesus is, of who God is, uh they have a sense of God. Again, this is all to reference for those um someone who's not knowing Jesus. It's just like we are all as human beings created in the image of God. Yeah, in the image of Him, we are created. If God is a creator, every single person is a creative being. Whether they are stay-at-home mom, whether they are teacher, whether they whatever that you're doing, there's creativity in you, and uh you can express that in form in the best way that you can. We are talking about a painter in lenses of worship today, but it can be through anything.

SPEAKER_00

Oh my goodness, yeah.

SPEAKER_03

The beauty of this is actually you're trying to uh uh hear God's voice to the best that you know how and put that on paper. So someone who's out there and you're wondering, where is this in the scripture? Uh is there like a specific verse that comes to you when it comes to painting and incorporating that?

SPEAKER_04

I think that there's more kind of like concepts, less than verses, but I'm glad I'm so glad you said that, like what you just said, because I that's something I stand like 10 toes down on. Like that we are all creative. Like that, like people look at my paintings and they're like, I could never draw that. I'm like, but I bet you're creative in some way. Like people don't always admit it, like they have creative minds. And I think that it's good to have those outlets and letting out whatever we're creative in. And sometimes it's like putting no pressure on it. Like maybe it's like cooking, or maybe it's just, you know, having a laugh and like coming up with jokes or something, your artistry, your craft, and making a podcast, you know, all of that. So I think that there's a way and a level of like purpose in that. And so I think that a lot of the verses about purpose, but specifically about the kingdom of God and purpose is really unique to me. Like, I think like one that maybe like translates to my paintings is the kingdom of God is like a mustard seed tree. Like it's like a mustard seed and then it grows to a big tree. It's like the smallest seed. And so like the smallest ideas to me um become some of the biggest things. And like I'm like, oh my goodness, I had no idea. This kind of took a life of its own. So I don't know if that's exactly numbers, but I've got to be.

SPEAKER_03

one time, and God was saying to his people through Moses, he's saying to them that I was in the cloud with you all day, every day, all night. Yes, but I didn't let you see me because had you seen how I look like in the clouds, you would have made a painting, an image out of that. Exactly. It wouldn't have And then you would think that that's all God looks like.

SPEAKER_04

And like you can't almost can't even witness, like in the Old Testament, like they're like not allowed to look at God's, or else they'll die or something. You know what I mean? Like it's crazy, but I think like that's sometimes the glory of like that we get to witness like bits of heaven or bits of God in our day-to-day life if we choose to. And it's like, whoa, what do we do with that? Like, you do sometimes we'll make creative things or try to comment on it. But yeah, like it's kind of like, what do you do with glory? And what do you do with the like revelations you get, like the ideas and the concepts, and how do you take your observations and share them with the people around you or not, or just share them?

SPEAKER_02

Let me ask you a question there.

SPEAKER_04

Yes. The things I was like, are you boring and I was like, okay.

SPEAKER_03

So whatever God gives you as an idea. Yeah, your design, or you're meant to put it on a canvas or a paper to write it.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, I feel like Or in some measure. Some in some measure. There's times when I'm like, I'll have an idea and I don't know if that's even a painting yet. And I don't know what like what I would represent with that. And I I kind of like the saying, like, there's nothing new under the sun. Like that, like sometimes God'll give it you an idea or a download, and then you know, I'll be sitting in service or I'll be talking with a friend and someone says something, and I'm like, oh my goodness, I was just thinking about that. And then the way I, you know, translate some of that is through imagery or through, you know, like I have these references in art history because I was an art history minor and I'm like, oh, okay, I think of this old painting or this old artist. And then all of a sudden all these images float together. And it's almost like a little collage in my brain of like words, ideas, things. And I don't think it's a responsibility for me to put it on a painting and share it with the world. But you know, like I take the pressure off. I'm like, if I don't make a painting that's about one of my ideas, isn't that the end of the world? Like, yeah, whatever. Yeah, whatever. Like God's still gonna get the idea out, or the idea is gonna exist somewhere. Yeah. But the joy of it is that I get to put my own twist on it, that I get to I get to express myself and I get to be a part of the conversation.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

And I think that's part of like what I love about New York is that there's so many creatives and there's like one resounding like choir almost. And it's like, like, do I get to join my voice to that choir, or am I gonna sing a different song, or I'm gonna do this other thing? And I think that's where the the excitement is. Like because every day you're like, I don't know what this will lead to, but maybe something good.

SPEAKER_03

No, I like it. And the reason why I asked that, um, there are paintings that have blown my mind.

SPEAKER_06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

There's one paint I still remember, someone painted something that looks like fire and looks like a throne of God. And every single time I would look at it.

SPEAKER_06

Wow.

SPEAKER_03

It was we were in healing rooms and I would cry and cry and cry. And every single time, actually, God would speak to me, every single time I'd go to worship, He'd bring that paint back in my memory for like as a reference to what heaven looks like. Yeah. To what you know, and I'm not quite sure. I there's no factual anything on this. I just know that something speaks to different people differently. Absolutely. And I don't want to take that away from him. So the reason as why I say like to write something this is in my line of work and in my history, I've come to know that God will give you an idea. The way he designed Mackenzie, the way he designed me, Colton, or anyone, yeah, is so unique and so different that when he gives you something to do, there is a glory that can only come out of you that you only can bring in the room. When someone else, yes, God will never God never runs out of options. But if he asks you to paint something, if he asks you to write a song, sometimes it's not for the audience, it's not for the public to consume. It is so one of the best people that I've heard speak, were like Wendy Buckland one time she said she's ridiculous. She's so good. She said, she said, God asked her to write, and she told him, I'm not an author.

SPEAKER_06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

And well, there was no reference. And then he asked her again, I asked you to write. And she said, God, I told you I'm not an author. Because in her mind, an author is someone who has written and published.

SPEAKER_02

And God asked her a question if an apple tree doesn't have apples on them, what do we call it?

SPEAKER_03

And she said, An apple tree. And say, if an orange doesn't have oranges on it, do we call it an apple tree? And he says, No, we call it an orange. And then God said to her that when you come to heaven, you're gonna be known as an author who never did what she was called to.

SPEAKER_06

Yeah. Oh, I love that.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, that's why I keep saying, like, everyone is a creative, everyone is able to do stuff. So the reason why we brought this is to read this verse in Habakkuk. God will write and ask Habakkuk to write things down. This is what he said write a vision and make it plain on a tablet. That he who reads it may run. For a vision is yet for an appointed time, but at the end it will speak and it will not lie. Though it delays, wait for it. But it will surely come to pass. So the reason that's why I read that is just like God will give you an idea and is looking for you to invest in it, write it down, paint it, do something with it. Let it have a physical reminder of what is given to you. So every single time you revisit it.

SPEAKER_06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

In so much in history, you look through all the scriptures, they'll be crossing the Jordan. It's like, no, actually, I want you to pile up stones as a memorial right here. So when kids that are in the future that are to come, they'll ask you, what is that? Why are those stones so piled up right there? Yeah. You will tell them that God delivered us, delivered us from the hand of the Egyptians. He made that cross through on dry ground into the promised land. So there's always a reason as why. Maybe talking about this paint that you've just made right here, there's a possibility that it's not even for this age. There's a possibility that's the generations that are to come that are yet to be seen, they're going to look at this like this existed before time, before we are born. So I want to invite you into a conversation with us. Talk to us about this. What is this? What did you do right there?

SPEAKER_04

Um yeah, so this piece in specific is part of a collection that I did on angels and just angels being a part of your day-to-day life or your memories. And this one is about kind of this place that I used to sit with my grandmother and just look out a window into her, like she's like an acre, beautiful lot of land. And we would like watch the bird feeders and all of that. And um, there's, you know, a very central like kind of image right there, like a table with flowers. And I think that that's sort of our conversation today, Lucky, which is kind of wild. But it's like setting the table. And I think that's like what you were talking about with what you did with this podcast is you want to set the table for people to bring what they want to bring, you know, their art, their creativity, their business, their everything. And like even what you were talking about with like w the apple tree and like being your identity isn't what you produce, but it is a little bit. Like it's some of what you it informs you.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

And I think that like just like talking to you the other day about how this podcast came to be, yeah. Like it's pretty cool that like the fruit in our lives, the circumstances can just come out. Out of like the smallest little thing or the thing that God wants us to show up, like a willingness, like a willingness to be like, all right, I'm gonna come, I'm gonna sit down, I'm gonna chat with Lucky and see where it goes. And like that's the excitement and that's the joy of it. But yeah, this painting and this that whole series of fear not is all about like what it means to tap into a little bit of belief, a belief in like what if heaven is real? What if heaven exists at the same time as us? And specifically towards the question of kind of anxiety and of pressure and fear, um, because angels would always appear and say, fear not, like because they're intimidating. I don't think, you know, like seeing an angel is crazy. But like I think that's a kind of a motto for that painting and for that series is fear not.

SPEAKER_03

Let me read you something that can blow your mind. Today at Bible study, yeah, we're talking about Hebrews. And we're talking about Paul's referencing weaver read, oh, we ever wrote the book of Hebrews. He's saying that Jesus is above angels.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

And he said to this, this is Hebrews 1, verses 14. Are they not, he's talking about angels, are not all angels ministering spirits? They are sent forth to minister on behalf of those that will inherit salvation. When I talk about so I come in here and then you brought in a painting of angels. I just read about this and studied this like at one o'clock. And you gave me another painting that has angels on it. And then I'm thinking, what is the pattern here? What is it trying to say to me that I'm having figured out? Oh my goodness, yeah. Your work speaks to me more than what you're thinking. Right now I'm looking at angels and I'm thinking, because the whole concept, the whole day is the only we started four chapters, and for me, the only verse that stripped out the most was about angels. And I said, Are we walking around on this planet Earth with angels in our midst? We just don't know yet. Oh, yeah. So I will put it this way: do not stop entertaining, do not stop being hospitable to other people. With so doing, some of you are entertaining angels without knowing.

SPEAKER_04

Oh my goodness, I love that verse. I've been have you felt like that sometimes when you're like, I think that person was an angel. Like, there's times I'll talk to people, I'm like, oh my goodness. Or like I'll look back and they're gone, and I'm like, wait, what? Like, have you had ever had it? 100%.

SPEAKER_05

I just talked to that person, they're 90. I'm like, they're either ready.

SPEAKER_03

Well, someone does something so ridiculously beautiful to you, and you never see them and for the rest of your life, like, what's that? You try to look them up, you try to find them, you can't even find, or you lose your contact for some reason. Like, what?

SPEAKER_04

Where do you think? Like it could be a coincidence, but I also think there's like a thin line between like there's when I went out to Reading for the first time, I remember meeting some people. And some people, like here in New York at Bethel, I'm like, they're straight out of heaven. Like, I'll meet them and I'm just like goosebumps.

SPEAKER_05

Like, and you're one of those people too.

SPEAKER_04

Lucky, like, you just like you say something, I'm like, oh my gosh. Like he, like, goodness, he's like in, he's there, he's in the place with God right now in that secret place. And I think that's what angels are representing, but also what like humans who are really in touch with just chasing after love of like the love of God and like heaven, like bring to you that's like ministering. And it's like, oh my goodness, like, but I love that verse.

SPEAKER_05

I'm always like, I don't want to like walk by someone and be mean or like give a face is like an angel or something.

SPEAKER_03

No, I'm so glad we touched on it. Because to someone who's watching this episode, we are ending here and we are ending on this angel piece and art that like uh you created. The beings that are responsible for worship in heaven are angels. A person that was responsible for music and creativity was an angel that fell to Lucifer. So I'm bringing this up to say that worship is on our daily, daily, daily lives at everyday moments. Yeah, it doesn't have to look like you raising hands, it could just be you uh putting a stroke on a canvas, and that is worship to God. Worship is not something that we do, worship is who we are. Every part of who you are is actually an expression of worship. You walking in the design of how God made you is worshiping itself. Let me say that again. You walking in the design of how God made you is the greatest form of expression of worship there is. Because he designed you to function like way, he functioned that he designed that you would have a nap hole, you would sleep, he designed that you would eat food, that you do A, B, C, D. Whatever God made brings him glory, and you're part of what he made. Mackenzie, I love your work. I feel like you and I could talk for days and hours and we never run out of what to talk about. I agree. But I wanted you, as we are ending this episode, to talk and speak to our listeners. Someone who's either been wanting to create something, but he hasn't felt the courage to do so. Or they're in the place where they feel like God is not using them for how they are made to do things. Yeah. And they're in that place where they feel like stuck. Those two areas, whatever you feel like want to speak about.

SPEAKER_04

I think I've been there for sure. Like I've been there where it's it's like a blank canvas can feel so intimidating. Or, you know, like a blank season in your life, like where you're like, I don't know where to go now. I don't know if I should move here or do this or take this job or do that. And I think that that's that's an element of like frozen like fear, decision, anxiety that we all feel. But the beautiful thing about like creativity is that it's just a canvas. Like I'm like, I could throw it away if it's horrible and I could, you know, keep it if it's beautiful. And the thing about taking a risk and stepping out, like, is you can't you can't have a wrong answer. And I think that that's in life too, that like when we're held and when we trust what God's gonna do with our life, like we just do our best, pray for it, and he'll show up and he'll do something with it. And I think that, you know, not always are my paintings like heavenly and perfect, but the willingness, the willingness to just step out and show up and a boldness. And I think that that is what maybe I would say to people, like to take away is that just show up and just try stepping out in one way or another and taking that first step of faith and like trusting that the rest of the path will reveal itself as you go. And maybe that that's my advice. I don't know. I think like don't be intimidated by the blank canvas. Let let your own confidence be not in what you're willing to do or like coming to do. It's in the like action, it's in the journey, it's in the ways that God meets us there or people meet us there, and love meets us there. And so that's my advice.

SPEAKER_03

Where can someone find your work?

SPEAKER_04

Oh, okay. Yeah, you can find my work at like Mackenzie Mazel Art, anything, like Mackenzie Mazel Art on Instagram or MackenzieMazelArt.com. And then these books will be on Amazon soon, but these are the manuscript versions, so there's a few typos.

SPEAKER_03

Do I give my do I get my audience a discount? Oh, yeah, yeah, sure. I'm sorry. Okay. Uh we're gonna leave all the details in our description on our YouTube channel and all the links and everything that's gonna be in the description where you can find Mackenzie's work. Follow up on Instagram, Mackenzie Mazo. Uh McKenzie Mazo Art, yeah. Art, okay. Uh anything that we've missed out is gonna be in the description. But thank you so much for watching this episode. We are so glad that you're with us. This is the Everything Kingdom podcast, and we actually glad that you get to partner with us to see heaven on earth. Mackenzie, would you pray us out?

SPEAKER_04

Of course. Yes, thank you, Lucky. Um Jesus, thank you so much for Lucky, for Colton, and for today, just for what you're doing in our lives, what you're doing in New York City, what you're doing in the kingdom of God, God, thank you for creativity that we get to tap into um just a level of your identity, that you are a creator and that um that your creations inform a little bit about who you are. So, God, I pray for whoever's listening to this that they would feel the courage to just create something, to make, or to be bold enough to have a creative mind and think outside the box. God, I just thank you that you gave us your Holy Spirit, that we get to tune into who you are. We get to tune into real love. Um, and God, I just pray for that love to be present. I pray for peace over whoever's listening to this. And I pray for just breakthrough in every circumstance area of the listeners' lives. And God, I just thank you for this time today. I thank you for um how amazing it is that you let us set a table in heavenly places or just in places of love and places of letting people in into relationship, into um goodness, into who you are. And thank you so much for how lucky has done that today for me. Um and God, I just pray you you bless this podcast, you bless my art, you bless um Colton's career. And I just pray you bless um bless this time. Thank you so much in Jesus' name. Amen.

SPEAKER_03

Amen. Until then,