Noteworthy with Nan

Caroline Keogh: Countless Hobbies, Reservations & Tracy Anderson Workouts

• Nan Philip • Season 1 • Episode 2

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0:00 | 44:19

Nan sits down with her college friend, Caroline Keogh, who works in luxury and fashion communications. 

Together they chat about everything from starting new hobbies, exploring New York City, getting great restaurant reservations and Tracy Anderson workouts. Caroline takes us through her morning routine and advocates for going into the office vs working from home.

We then dive into Caroline’s Noteworthy Tips: the Indyx App (to catalog your clothing and outfits), using her Daily Overview Notepad from Ramona & Ruth and playing card games/buying a card shuffler.

We wrap up the episode with Caroline’s advice on managing anxiety and moments of overwhelm plus her motto of ‘Life Happens on a Tuesday.’

Find links to everything Caroline mentions on our substack: https://nanphilip.substack.com/t/noteworthy-with-nan-podcast

Stay tuned for more Noteworthy with Nan episodes every Thursday!!

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Key Takeaway from the Episode:
Caroline suggests having five or six go-to outfits each season. 
Caroline and Nan rave about The Indyx phone app for cataloging and tracking their wardrobe.
Write out your day the night before to reduce stress and sleep better.
Reframing how you think about jealousy.
Caroline’s inside perspective of Tracy Anderson workouts and how to get started.
The pro’s of going into the office for work vs. working from home.
Overwhelm and anxiety are different things and can be managed differently.
Caroline’s personal motto: Life happens on a Tuesday.

Credits:
Host: Nan Philip
Executive Producer: Julia Aubuchon
Technical Director: Drew Downing
Guest: Caroline Keogh

SPEAKER_01

Welcome back to Noteworthy with Nan. We are here with my friend Caroline, who I went to college with and is one of my best friends, and I'm so grateful that she's here. Thanks for being here, Caroline. To give you a little background before we dive in, Caroline works in fashion marketing communications. She works at Tiffany. Before that, she worked at Michael Kors and Coach. She always just has the best outfits and knows everything that's going on. She lives in the West Village with her husband and their adorable little dog. She has two sisters, a really close family. She loves a hobby, and we're just gonna sort of dive in and talk about everything. Caroline, thanks for being here. I'm so excited. So to dive in, the first question we're always gonna ask everyone is about some noteworthy moments from the like last week or so in your life. So give us one high and one low from the last week.

SPEAKER_00

Well, spring is finally here in New York, so that's a high in itself. Um I would say specifically last Friday, actually, it was one of those days where the sun crept out early and it just became spring, like in that moment. So Kayla and I agreed. Kayla's my best friend for the listeners. Kayla and Carol. We should have probably had Kayla too. Because we really are um so Kayla and I slapped our, you know, slammed our laptops shut early and we took the dogs to Central Park. We had a beer. And watch leave work early on a Friday. If you're my employer, I would never do that. I did not do that. But the workload did allow it, and the sun was like a good enough excuse. Uh so we put a blanket down, we took the dogs, we had a beer, we watched old people roller skate dance for like an hour. It was in like the most beautiful. Did they fall or were they good at it? No, they were they were probably better at dancing and being on roller skates than I'll ever be. They clearly do this regularly.

SPEAKER_01

Do you know how I broke my ankle when I was younger?

SPEAKER_00

Roller skating? Yes.

SPEAKER_01

In eighth grade, I broke my ankle roller skating. It was a whole debacle. Had to have surgery twice.

SPEAKER_00

Like it really Actually, you know what? I roller skated once when I was younger too, and I did something on my shoulder. Yeah, no, I'm getting too much of a klutz for that. But these people I clearly meet regularly and do this, and it was so adorable. And it was just like a perfect afternoon.

SPEAKER_01

I like the other little thing. Okay, cute. That's in your future. Caroline's about to move uptown where I live, so I'm very excited for that.

SPEAKER_00

In due time.

SPEAKER_01

Okay, so that was your high. Did you have a low from the last week?

SPEAKER_00

I don't think so. I'm like a very much uh, you know, like life happens on a Tuesday type fit person. So I wouldn't say there's ever a low. I mean, there's things I could probably do without, but like I try not to focus too much because a true low is gonna come one day, and like, you know, you can't plan for that.

SPEAKER_01

Okay, I want to hear about your job a little bit more because I feel like as your friend, I know that you work at Tiffany. That seems very cool. Marketing, jewelry, but I don't really know what you do day to day. So give us like that's fair the average person overview if we don't understand all the personality.

SPEAKER_00

This feels like, you know, do you see on TikTok when people give PowerPoints to their friends about what they do because nobody knows what their friends do? This is about to be that. Yeah. Um, so working in marketing, I like to say, especially when you work for a luxury brand, is almost being a publicist for the brand as if the brand was a human. And you kind of know the brand inside out in the sense of, you know, what does the brand stand for? How would the brand talk? You know, would the brand go to this event? Or would the brand. Yes. Okay. Um, but you know, it's its own standalone. Yeah. It has its own personality. Okay. It has, again, like its own values. Would the brand appear on this social platform in this way, et cetera? Um, and so I like to think of a little bit of like a gatekeepers of making sure the way we appear makes sense for who the brand is as that person. And then also once the brand starts to appear on different communication channels, whether it's the email in your inbox or on the website or you know, in an article in Vogue, that we're all in sync and everything is singing the same song, you know, sharing the same message, making sure that if you as a consumer see the brand, you're not confused because we're pushing one thing over here, but then you, you know, open up the webpage and we have a completely different story to tell. So we're really kind of we're keeping the whole organization from a communications perspective in the same loop. Okay. So we're all seeing Natalie Portman.

SPEAKER_01

Because if you haven't watched that yes yet, they did an amazing new video with Natalie Portman that is stunning. Yeah, it's beautiful. Watch the full length version though. We'll link to it. Um, okay, so but like day to day, are you you go into the office most days? Yes. I by choice.

SPEAKER_00

Yes. I that is so weird to me, but this is why I love you. I to my Gen Z coworkers are gonna hate me pushing for this. I love being in the office. I've always been a person who needs to have a separate workspace. Like even in college, I did not do homework in my dorm room one single time. I always didn't have a desk, I feel like in that last one. Well, that's a vanity. Well, that last room was questionable. I mean, I had a duck to live in that last room. Um, I need that like switch of this is my workspace versus my home. On days that I work from home, I'll admit I struggle. Like, I'm like, oh, I could do laundry over here, I could do this. There's just not that, you know, note to me to focus up. So I need that. Plus, I like the people. I'm definitely addicted to the drama. I like being like all of us together, you know, dealing with a fire drill, dealing with something that's come up in the same space. It makes it feel a little less difficult. Do you have underlings underneath you? Not at the moment, the way we're structured, actually. Would you make them come in if you did?

SPEAKER_01

Listen, how people work best is up to them. Okay, what would you be like as a boss, like when someone's working underneath you? I feel like you're very um like direct and to the point in a nice way.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I think I just I communicate a lot. I think that's how I just work best with people. I over-communicate. Okay. Because I don't like surprises. It's kind of like I'm, you know, very much a person of like, if you get your end-of-the-year review and any of the feedback is news to you, that's not fair and that's not a good thing.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So if I was your boss, you'd probably be hearing whatever it is like quite constantly. And I like to let them know what I'm doing just for the sake of like no mystery, et cetera.

SPEAKER_01

Okay, so something I think that's very interesting about you is you barely wear jewelry. And now that you obviously, Tiffany, we know, does more than that. There's the home staff and whatnot, but you barely wear any jewelry. I know.

SPEAKER_00

I will say, every brand I've worked at while I worked there, you didn't really. It's almost like it's too it's too hard. It's too close. It's too close. Okay.

SPEAKER_01

But then after I'm like, oh wow. What do you think if you're not gonna be buying it? But I could certainly be buying from Tiffany. Trying to think if I have anything right now. I don't think so, but what would you think I should buy since you know the collection? Jewelry-wise, I'm asking.

SPEAKER_00

It's such a special brand, but I think we all forget it's such a special brand. And there's so many like wonderful collections with really strong historical ties and reasons that it's part of the brand. I love hardware right now. I think the hardware, I think you can rock the earrings.

SPEAKER_01

Gold hardware earrings.

SPEAKER_00

I think you could pull that off.

SPEAKER_01

And our friend Anna has the hardware bracelet, and that's very pretty too. But I don't think it's a good one. Why are we looping ourselves? Yeah. Hardware. Okay, I think I like the hardware collection.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

All right. So that's sort of your work vibe. You're going into work every day. I want you to walk me through how your like routine in life before we get to work, especially, because Caroline loves a routine, which I think is why I like you too. So walk us through like when your alarm goes off until you get to the office. See, I don't think you're gonna like this answer.

SPEAKER_00

I think if I answered this question 10 years ago, I would have had an insane routine, like very rigid.

SPEAKER_01

Caroline was busy in college. Like she had her notebook of her schedule, every little thing was highlighted in a different color. Like you were on lock on what you're doing.

SPEAKER_00

But the parameters that I put out loosened? They're just they they don't they're different. Okay. In the sense that I'm still incredibly organized. I still, like, you know, the night before need to lay out for myself how a day is likely gonna lay out.

SPEAKER_01

Are we picking out our outfit the night before? It depends, it depends on what's happening at work. Did you pick out this outfit that you're wearing? You should be watching on YouTube. If you're not, you can obviously listen to this podcast anywhere, but you should click over to YouTube and subscribe and watch so you can see Caroline's outfit.

SPEAKER_00

So the thing is, um, I went to catch last night and oh, I saw that you went to catch, and we do need to discuss that.

SPEAKER_01

Um, will you please describe what catch is for our non-New York City?

SPEAKER_00

It's a New York institution. And to the real housewives of New York who spoke ill of it, shame on you. Catch has been around for 15 years. If you were invited to a catch dinner, with how many people were invited when she didn't go? I'd go, and you know what? I'd be very I'd be 10 toes down proud right now because catch also owns corner store. They own the 86. Like is the 86 the new corner store this? Yes, it's the one on Bedford. Have you been?

SPEAKER_01

Yes, and Caroline goes everywhere. Like she knows all the new spots, and she doesn't invite me enough to these new places, but that's okay. Um how was 86? It's actually worth it. Okay.

SPEAKER_00

It's they have 10 tables. It has really interesting historical roots.

SPEAKER_01

How am I gonna get into something that has 10 tables?

SPEAKER_00

I can't even get into like I'm working on it. I'm chipping away. Okay. Um it has really interesting historical roots. They believe that Fitzgerald wrote the Great Gatsby at one of the tables. It was designed. That feels like a stretch. Like, do we really? Sure, whatever. I love a story though. It was though, at least, because it used to be Chumleys. I don't know if you remember Chumle's. I've heard of that.

SPEAKER_01

Okay, but it means nothing to me.

SPEAKER_00

It has historical roots that it essentially was like a place people would go during prohibition, so you can go into the bathroom and like where they would sneak out when they were cool stuff with things. So it's really, really beautiful that way. And they it's kind of like Adult Disneyland for like food. They make everything a show. Like my martini was like a five-minute presentation. If I'm gonna be paying, I got it's exciting. Back to catch. I have never been there, I don't think. Um, also, they've started to take stuff from the corner store and the 86 menu and add it there.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, so maybe we should just all be going there because we can't obviously get into the corner store. My number one tip is catch in the meat packing district. Yeah, it's like right above I can picture it. I just don't think I've ever been.

SPEAKER_00

Okay. This is the craziest conversation that we've ever had, I think.

SPEAKER_01

No, that's it's pretty on brand that like I don't know what's going on in the world in Caroline. We're having a dead serious conversation. Um can you take us back to your routine? Okay, first with answering the question when did you pick out the outfit that you're wearing today?

SPEAKER_00

So, like I said, I went to catch last night, so I didn't pick it out last night, and then I put something on this morning, got my hair done, said that outfit doesn't work. Okay. And there was a second change. But what I like to do in general, I think something that's really helped me is every season I have like five or six outfits that worst case scenario, if I had to put that outfit on and go out that day, I'm happy. Okay. It's not necessarily like a capsule wardrobe, it's not a bunch of just like white teaser stuff, but it's like five or six go-to things. Okay. Where I'm like, I know I'm gonna look cute if I have to do low lift.

SPEAKER_01

Great.

SPEAKER_00

Otherwise, though I hope that I'd be like ideating on it. But so I do have those things. This is like one of those one of those like outfits that you knew was gonna work. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01

Okay, I love that. All right, so but back to the routine Monday morning of the upcoming week. Tell me what you're gonna do.

SPEAKER_00

Okay, so for I the problem is, and I think I've grown into this knowledge, is there's so many things you can't control. There's a very strong chance I wake up on Monday morning and I have a hundred emails from you know, something that's arisen over the weekend work-wise. Or there's a chance, you know, what if I actually this Sunday have Greek Easter with my friends? So, like, we're gonna be at a family event for a very long time. So maybe I won't.

SPEAKER_01

I'm picking up the outfit that night.

SPEAKER_00

That night, and also I want to sleep in a little, like I gotta, you know, make it up on the other side. I do like to, if I can, write out my day to an extent the night before. Okay. And then I have some non-negotiables, like, I have to have my coffee. We know the dog's gonna get walked. I'd love to get a walk in the walk. You're walking the dog, not PJ. Well, he's actually taking over the morning shift right now. That sounds lovely.

SPEAKER_01

Yes, that is nice. Um, another reason I need a boyfriend, but you know, we'll get back to that.

SPEAKER_00

But like, I want to try to get a workout in, so if there's a slot for that, we'll I want to talk about Tracy Anderson.

SPEAKER_01

Is that what different workout is?

SPEAKER_00

Yes.

SPEAKER_01

Okay, let's circle back to that. Let's go. Yeah, continue the teaching, and then we have to talk about two.

SPEAKER_00

So I have non-negotiables, I just have relaxed the parameters of when they have to happen. Valid. It just life doesn't work that way, and I've finally learned that at college. Obviously, life does work that way because you control everything. What like time do you leave your apartment to get to the office ideally? I can get to my office, I'm very lucky right now. It's not good. It's gonna be It's gonna be worse when you move. Not terrible, not significantly, but I can like leave my apartment at 8 45 and be sitting at my desk at 9. That's nice. One subway ride. Actually, I ride the path, which I'm a huge fan of. I don't know if I've ever been on the path.

SPEAKER_01

I it's talk about image. If you don't live in New York City, the path is um a train that goes from New Jersey to New York City.

SPEAKER_00

It's like the subway, though, it would be very similar to a subway. I just happen to be living and working on it.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, you do live right near it. It's great.

SPEAKER_00

All right, very reliable. What time is your alarm going off typically? If I'm do if I'm doing a heavy morning, it could be as early as 5 30. Miserable. Okay. If I am, you know, if I next week we're going to that book event, depending if we grab a drink after, right? Maybe I'd say I'll let it go as long as I can get I can get up at 8 and make it happen fast for myself. So I'm fucking. Are you using your phone alarm, a hatch alarm? Which the hatch alarm is like kind of too creepy for me. No, I like my hatch. You should get on the hatch. No, I have a hatch. I sleep, I go to sleep to a hatch. Yeah. But the false sun and the false birds was freaking me out.

Caroline's take on Tracy Anderson workouts

SPEAKER_01

It's a little weird, but I am really here for it. Fitz, my dog though, does not like the hatch. He has like an issue with it, I think. And he scratches the plug. He's like, this is creepy. Yeah. It could be. Talk to us about Tracy Anderson. When you started, how often you go, if introduce everyone to Tracy Anderson if they haven't heard about it.

SPEAKER_00

I, well, first of all, I think if you found yourself here, it's very likely you're on the same TikTok as the rest of the group. So like you've You've followed Gwenet, you know about quite fascinated by how fascinated people are by it.

SPEAKER_01

I'm scared. Like I feel like I don't love to work out, but I do it because we have to-ish. And I'm shocked by I've never tried it. I have years ago bought her DVDs when she was doing them, like had a DVD. I mean, oh yeah, those are the best.

SPEAKER_00

Did you not do those in college little arm XP?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, so like around that time, I've definitely done her routines. I have never gone to a studio because I'm fully intimidated by it.

SPEAKER_00

I don't know why everyone makes it so scary or makes it seem like everyone's like. It's silent. Try it.

SPEAKER_01

They don't. Okay. That's weird. They do that part. They do talk, which I think I could like, but if you're going for the first time, I don't understand how I go to a workout class and the instructor doesn't talk the whole time.

SPEAKER_00

So the key is I think there's a lot of missing information here in the sense of most people are members. I do the poor man's version, but most people are members, and so they have an assigned trainer. Like they get given a full routine that they're individually, yeah, they're incorporating all the stuff. They're having someone who's meeting with them personally and like kind of addressing some of their issues based or based on their goals, et cetera. I didn't know that was a thing. So that's happening for a lot of people. Okay. Also, the expectation is that you study, which I why I like it actually, is when she wants me to study outside of the time I'm giving you in my workout. See, that's why I like it. Wow. So you join the online platform, you know, she releases a new routine, you would just take a look at it, study it, okay, and then you would come to class in theory. Just so you have a sense of what's about to happen. Miserable time. And also it's a graduate workout to begin with. See, but that's why you don't have to do it. No one has to do it. You know what I mean? It works for me. I love the silence. I don't know. It's the one silent hour of my day where no one can reach me, ask me a question. I can't. They do play music, I'm hoping. Yeah, they blast music. Okay. They blast really good music. They don't talk to me. Everyone's very nice there. And I like don't have like, you know, like I can't dance, I don't have like a hand eye. My brain and my body don't talk very well. Yeah. So for an hour, all I'm thinking is head, knee, hand, this. Right, you're distracted. It's like that. It's a for me, it's the mental relief of it. Okay. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01

And just it just it has worked for me. And how long, like I feel like you did it before your wedding, sort of was that when you started? Like I started yours?

SPEAKER_00

Doing it at home in COVID. Okay. Which is a good way to also get into it. Doing the privacy of your home. Do you think that's how people should start? I think that's how I start. Probably. It's a less confusing experience. Okay. Um, and then before my wedding, I started going to the studio saying I'll do this for a little bit. Yeah. And then I was like, I'm I like being there.

SPEAKER_01

Okay, that's a win. I feel like I go to my gym and I'm looking forward to leave. Like, that's how I get there. Like, and my trainer knows that. He's like, okay, Nana, do you know if you keep moving fast? We'll be done 10 minutes early. I'm like, let's go.

SPEAKER_00

Well, so there's week I I haven't like I haven't gone like in a couple of weeks because like sometimes I'm just not in the mood. It's not gonna, it's not gonna materially make me feel that much better or worse, and like then take a break.

SPEAKER_01

If you haven't gone in three weeks, I'm confused how the routine of it. The routine changes every week. And also it changes every week. You've gone enough, you start to like a pattern. What's happening in front of you? Tracy Anderson. I don't know, it's intriguing. Well, you have to, you'll have to switch studios when you move uptown.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And what do you have you been to that town studio? That's gonna be a big day for me.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, that's gonna be a change. Going to a new school.

SPEAKER_01

You are from Manhasset, which is what would you call that? Like a suburb of New York City. That's a good description. We call it suburb or suburb. Um and I just love how you're really close with your family and you have two sisters. And so I wanted you to chat a little bit about like telling us more about how you're close with your family. And I don't think I've ever really asked you. I feel like you guys were always close, but I would expect that maybe when you were teenagers, you guys didn't get along as well. So I want to hear about like your relationship and how you think now that you are in your you're in your 30s, your sisters are in their late 20s, how you all still are so close.

SPEAKER_00

Living in the city and having grown up outside the city, it's like, you know, the umbilical cord is kind of not stretched that far. So we just in general, physically, we're all very close. Um, but to your point, I think when you have three girls growing up, there's a natural age gap and you're going through different phases, and so the relationships are ebbing and flowing in that way. Okay. So, for example, at some point, you know, when I'm in middle school, I was babysitting my youngest sister. That's not really like a very close relationship. You're kind of like go to bed so I can watch TV, please. Um, and you know, when I was a senior in high school, my middle sister was a freshman, so we started going to the same parties, and that's a that's a you know, a strengthening of relationship. So for a period it was a lot of that. Um, but now that we're all in the city, I think it's just naturally that way. Um but there was never an explanation, it's not like the parents were like, I don't think there's an expectation that we had to be close. Do your parents have siblings? Are they close with their siblings? My mom well, this actually might make sense now. Actually, my mom has a sister who we've heard about who lives around the block basically. Okay. So that I think also probably to a degree, just naturally. I feel like you and your sister would live around the block from each other. Yeah, well, we do. We live in, I think, a two minutes. We live in a triangle basically right now in the city that I could within seven minutes probably get to all of us.

SPEAKER_01

So will they Caroline's moving uptown, which I'm very excited about, in hopefully the fall, or when when do we think it will be ready? Hopefully the fall. Hopefully the fall. So does that mean that they'll follow you? I hope. I'm not putting pressure on anyone, but listen, I was at the West Village first.

SPEAKER_00

Everyone seems to have ended up there. Yeah, so maybe they'll follow you. Yeah, and you know, hopefully my parents will be in a stage where maybe they move up town. Okay.

SPEAKER_01

So it'll it'll be and if they're like a family group text, like how are you guys all communicating?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, we have a group text, but it's not like a, I don't know how to say it, it's not like a there's no for we're not a big force family fun group. I yeah. There's but no formality to anything we do.

SPEAKER_01

However, Carolina and her family will go on like over Thanksgiving, or what is the tour of Central Park? Who is your person? Like you do go on for a tour guide, shout out. If you don't think it's forced, I don't know what it is, because her family like goes on these events, like they're walking around New York New York City for three hours with a tour guide.

SPEAKER_00

What is that? Well, it's it's like, well, that's a little bit also my a nice offset is my husband's family is like a little bit more forced family fun. So that has that has given us the excuse or kind of forced us into it a little bit in a good way. But it's never that there's no specific traditions, like except for a couple, but it's just more it's always been very natural. It's almost like even the way my mom raised us, I don't think at any point in time she was ever treating us truly like we were children. Like she kind of treated us like adults from the beginning.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. And so it it just kind of evolved that way. I like it. I don't know. It seems like a very I don't have siblings. Or I don't have sis, I have a sibling. Sorry, Harry. Love you. I don't have sisters. Yeah. Um, and I feel like you guys are.

SPEAKER_00

I know. I don't know what I would do with a brother. I mean, I always wanted a brother growing up, but like now I feel like I would hope for my dad's say, Keep you really probably really would love that.

SPEAKER_01

Do you do like does your your dad likes to play golf? But do you got do any of you play golf with your dad? No, not really. That would be a forced event.

SPEAKER_00

I need golf as a sport to figure out the outfit situation before I get into it.

SPEAKER_01

I'm working on that currently, actually, so I can report.

SPEAKER_00

As a five foot three woman, and I understand that there are certain attire requirements. I am looking like, not to be derogatory towards gym teachers, but I'm looking like your high school gym coach in a bad way. Like I look tough out there, and I cannot be put on the show.

SPEAKER_01

There has to be a brand out there. I feel like so many new women's golf brands.

SPEAKER_00

Those cute ones, I think they're only producing a few pieces. Yeah. Or sometimes they're too cute.

this gal loves a hobby - photography, needlepoint, golf, tiktok, influecning and more!

SPEAKER_01

Like I feel like I see ones that are also by the way, um, that cute brand. Is it coolie out in some of these, no? Is it c is it called Birdie or something like that? That's a cute brand. But I'm like, this is so cute that I don't want to wear it on the golf course. Like, I'm not wearing gingham on the golf course. I think people stop forgetting the whole thing was that there's certain rules about, you know. Right, like there's a country club dress code that you have to work into. Okay. Last sort of thing in this element of your routines is I want to talk to you about hobbies because you are a hobbyist. Yes, like my type of serial hobbyist. So Caroline tries everything, and I don't even know what you would say. Are you like top hobbies?

SPEAKER_00

Yes, I'm a serial hobbyist. I love, I I cannot stand not understanding something. Like, actually to golf. This time last year, I went through a golf hyperfixation because I got sick of hearing all the men be like, oh my golfing, and like making it a whole ordeal. And I'm like, very L Woods. What? Like it's hard. Right. Okay. So you wanted to know do you have a handicap? No, no, we didn't get that far. Okay. But I was like, forget. So I basically, for like a while before work was going to the driving range. Good for you, Carolyn. Yeah. So like I'll pick something up. I just want to be able to, if someone's talking about it, I hate when they You're very well.

SPEAKER_01

I hate being mansplained by anyone. On a lot of topics, though. I feel like you could be dropped into any conversation and know what people are talking about. Where I could be like, I've never been to catch.

SPEAKER_00

I have no idea what you're talking about. Need to understand, even to a slight degree. Okay. And I have to do it by doing or whatever. So that leads to a lot of your hobbies. Yes. So now, I mean, oof. Needle point. I mean you're making that up. I'm trying to do it with my new camera. I'd like to take some photography lessons, be able to understand that a little bit better. Tell everyone what type of camera you have. I recently so I ha I was really lucky.

SPEAKER_01

I don't know if anyone knows that. Caroline should be an influencer. On the side. She's not, but she is on TikTok, which we will link to. Finite Days in the Year. Um, so she does have like an um an influencer.

SPEAKER_00

Well, that was another spirit. That was a hob, that was a hobby. Yeah. TikTok was a hobby for a little bit. I didn't like not understanding, especially because I work in that space, what how the platform was working. And the only way to Did you feel like it helped figure it out? Oh, 100%. I still don't know how it works, though. I mean, it changes all the time, but at least I feel a little more uh fluent in the language of TikTok now. Are you still posting? No, well, it's it that's I feel better now to know that it it is time consuming. Even if like even if it's just posting a single outfit every day, that is a thing. Like it's work. No one thinks it's work, but it definitely is a type of a short, different type of work. It helped me appreciate that. Okay. And even through the smaller like affiliate link type things you do where you start to see what these sort of content briefs look like to Caroline's shopmai. She is a good idea. Those concepts, like it, it helps to like better than it just helps me speak the language than better.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I love that. Okay. So TikTok. Oh, tell us the camera. Sorry, because you first got a camera.

SPEAKER_00

All the girls on TikTok were very excited about this Canon G7X. Yes. That happened about two years ago. I go rummaging in my drawer in, and I want credit for this. In 2016, I wanted to get into YouTube as a hobby. Wait, 2016 was that when we graduated college? Yes. And so I wanted to get into YouTube because I wanted to understand that platform as a hobby. And in my research, I was told at the time that the Canon G7X was the best thing to film on for a vlog. Ahead of the game. And so lo and behold, the old hobby is sitting in the basket. So I got back into taking pictures that way because it just takes a really good photo of you. Or did PJ, let's be honest. Well, I had to learn, and then I had to learn how to translate it into Instagram husband talk for him. Okay.

SPEAKER_01

Which I think he did well because when we were in DC last year in January, he took some good photos.

SPEAKER_00

Terrible on an iPhone. If he takes a photo of me on the iPhone, I look like I should be the star in the new hobbit. I look like a little gremlin that's coming out of a cave. But if he takes the camera out, model. Okay. So that was great for everyone. But since then, I'm like, oh, I really do love, I love not taking a photo on my phone because it means the phone's not out. It still lets me capture a moment without getting involved. And so since then I bought the Fujifilm XV100i, which is a it's still beginner friendly, but has it?

SPEAKER_01

I thought it was hard to use because I tried to use it when we were on our trip together.

SPEAKER_00

Well, I'm also the photos I took are terrible. I'm moving away from like auto. Okay. So like I'm playing with aperture, I'm playing with things. And so it's like still beginner friendly in the way it lets you play with it, but I've upped the ante on it. Where would you go, like in New York or online to take a class? I was told, and I think I need to call them. We should ask Drew. Drew can report back to us whose helps us. Photo Uno apparently does classes, and then also we'll do, I want to just do like a two-hour session with someone. Like I want to sit with a guy. A one-on-one. Ask all my questions because it is very specific to the camera. I've emailed them. I think they're probably a business that works on the phone. And you know, you gotta call someone. That's so sick.

SPEAKER_01

Okay, we'll have you hire Drew, but we can figure that out for you and we'll report back. And we'll link to the cameras because you do like the cameras. I love them. I love them.

SPEAKER_00

Would you want to get a film camera? So funny you should say that. I think that's like the next one. I have it on my to-do list to start doing that research. Because I think that could be fun. Film is just so stressful. Yeah. Like I feel like I'm just gonna be the idiot who's like, oh, let me open up the back and just expose the entire thing. So figure it out.

SPEAKER_01

That's a fun project. Yeah. Okay, so that's on your future for hobbies. Do we have another future, like hobby in the hopper?

SPEAKER_00

My mom and I are recommitting to golf and tennis come summer, but that's kind of boring. Oh, mahjong. How's your mahjong journey? I need to set up a class. Oh, I once you move uptown, I'm gonna we're gonna work on that. I would like to, my one thing I really want to do this spring is do something that refreshes my art history knowledge.

SPEAKER_01

Ooh.

SPEAKER_00

I just want to, like I said, I like to dust off different parts of my brain.

Caroline's Three Noteworthy Tips: Indyx App, Daily Notepad, Playing Card Shuffler

SPEAKER_01

Okay. Switching gears, but kind of in the same vein. I want to talk about sort of three noteworthy takeaways that we can get from you, Caroline, from Caroline's brain, that help make your life easier or sort of keep everything running. So it could be like a phone app that you love, it could be having a cleaning lady come to your house, having someone buy groceries for you. Like three hacks to live your best life.

SPEAKER_00

Yes, I love a hack. I like to be able, something that frustrates me more than anything is wasting brain power, time on something that I can make more efficient for myself. Um my first one is the index app you introduced me to. I get credit. I'm so excited. Man introduced me to this app that lets you catalog your wardrobe. And because I am moving, oh yeah, it's a good time for you. Anything that is not coming with us must go. And also, like I've just been re-going through things and I want to organize them in a way that's very plug-and-play than into a new apartment. It's sort of a um it's shares clueless. It's clueless. Yes.

SPEAKER_01

It is so for what I like to do with my closet, it's amazing. Yeah, if you like fashion and if you like to plan your outfits or like know what you're getting use out of, I think it's a really good app for you. It does, okay. It does so many wonderful things.

SPEAKER_00

We're both paying it. If you're the index founder, muzzle. It's incredible. It first of all, you can vlog what you've worn, you see your entire closet. Explain that.

SPEAKER_01

So you can put up a selfie, you can upload a selfie of your selfie. I just tag the outfits. Yeah, or you can do just the pieces that look more like a chic mood board of the items from your closet.

SPEAKER_00

Well, actually, even taking it from the top. If you live in New York, no matter how organized you are, you really can't see everything that's in your closet now because it might be in the stove. It just, it's not like all in front of you, which makes it very hard to optimize your wardrobe. So it's in the app like that. How do you get it there? Did you hire so I did it? I did it all myself because I was cleaning out the closet. So if it it was actually a really good exercise of do I want to bother to take a photograph of this or should I just not have this anymore? Right. I don't even want to take a picture of it. So now like anything new I buy that's in an e-receipt, I just forward it and it auto. And then it assigns a price, which means I now know what my content costs great for homeowners insurance. Oh, I'm about it. I think I think everyone should do it themselves. I find out what you have.

SPEAKER_01

I've done face your fears. As I wear the outfits. So I haven't done it all in one big swoop, but I'm like, okay, this outfit that I'm wearing today, oh Nan, that sweater's not there yet. Upload it.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. I like was already in a good place to have to do all that. But then you can in theory, then outfit plan for the week with pictures of your own stuff. Love. You have, again, like price information, things like that. But if you're monitoring usage, it starts to tell you what's your most worn items, what's that's absolutely not being used. I found out, you know, which is ironic. I don't love the color black. 29% of my closet black sweater. Yes, 29% of my closet's black. I gotta, I got problems. I'm probably not using it then. Interesting.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I think the best part of the index app is the data that you get. If you're like the two of us and like data, you should download the app and give it a try. So we will link to it, obviously. Okay, so index is one. I do small plug if index is listening. I really need the desktop version. They're supposedly working on it. I've like read their FAQ. I feel like it's better. I just like need to be able to do it on my desktop. It's so I can't see the photos big enough. I need a desktop version.

SPEAKER_00

So I just need to be able to come to retouch the photos because sometimes like if something ends up. Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_01

So those are two edits.

SPEAKER_00

Um index two is we're going more analog. I have this Ramona and Ruth date like pad. I have never heard of Rebecca and it is truly like a legal pad that tears off and it just has it's pre-outlined with to-do list and like a day from six to caroline. I can see. And so it lets me because sure my schedule is somewhere digital because again, everything's like. If you're not bringing a planner around with you everywhere. No, I'm not logging my doctor's appointments that way. That's just my life is changing too much. Are you using Apple Calendar or Google Calendar? Everything in my life right now is an Outlook due to my corporate. It's attached to my corporate email, and I have to be able to see this message. Okay. I don't like Outlook. That's it. I got a system. I have a color-coded system in there, don't worry. Because I like to know how I use my time.

SPEAKER_01

My mom, I'm sorry, I just have to tell you, I was running this idea by my parents of like, let's ask for noteworthy tips from everyone. And I so I ran it by them and I was asking them, like, can you both brainstorm, you know, three to five things to just like make sure that the average person could come up with enough ideas? My dad, I would love to know. Nothing for us, like truly nothing. My mom came back with like a list of 10 things. One of hers was color coding your calendar. And I go, Tori, I don't know if that's original enough. Like, we're casting a wide net, but that's a little while. Let's aim higher.

SPEAKER_00

Okay, so Ronan Ruth date planner is great because even if I have two minutes or 20 the night before, I need to just be able to take in like what I need to do tomorrow and fashionable and like my day. So it because of the flex, again, like calendars are moving constantly. I try to then just jot it out just the night before. And do you feel like that helps makes you sleep better because you've done it? Yeah, it's just like a it's just like a how bad, how bad is tomorrow for your baby?

SPEAKER_01

Okay. And like puts me in the right mind. Do you travel with that? Like, is that in your purse or do you leave that no that pad of paper at home?

SPEAKER_00

Because I'm going back and forth to the office, it's it comes with me most places. So we're using like a big tote most days. I honestly just use a little LL bean tote because the strap- the strap's long enough, it's just and it's just sees too much. What color is it? It's natural, which is with natural natural, yes. And is it monogrammed? It says nine to five.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, cute. Okay, so that's tip number two. What is number three? If you play cards, get yourself cards. I'm sorry, wait. Um, cards? Are you 90 years old? Like playing cards.

SPEAKER_00

I okay, playing cards is a great get into it. If you It's another hobby of hers. If you are a 30-year-old woman with no kids and free will, get yourself a deck of cards. I have some deck games.

SPEAKER_01

I have multiple decks of cards at my apartment. I cannot tell you last time I used them.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, it's so fun. Like, you ever have to lunch? It's just like a fun way to keep having conversations, but also like it's also in your purse, just like a deck of cards is sitting in there. Well, yes, it actually I do travel with a deck of cards every day. I have a deck of cards on me. Okay, Caroline. But specifically recently, I've been playing this game Play Nine. Never heard of it. Have you ever played the game of golf, which is a card game? It's a riff on that, but now it's based on true golf. No. Super, super fun, very easy. There's actually an app to this. How many people do you need to have playing?

SPEAKER_01

Anywhere from two to six. Okay. So, sorry, we're talking about though a card shuffler. Yes. And it shuffles the cards for you. Yes, yes, I get the concept. Um, how big is that? Does that travel with you or does that stay? No, no, no. You know, have you seen the tables, the mahjong tables that shuffle the mahjong tiles for you?

SPEAKER_00

Like you drop them all in and they really see, we're not there in the hobby, luckily, and therefore I don't need to know about the device. Yeah. My mom. I am my mother's daughter. I got home for Easter last week, and my mom has on the, you know, her like office table just this big puzzle like table thing she bought that spins and has different drawers. And so she put all the pieces by colors in the drawers. Oh, I should get that for my dad. So she could do it over time. Yeah. That this is my version of that, the card shuffler. And is it a specific brand? Like, will you send us the link or any other? We'll find it on. We'll find the good one on Amazon. Okay. My mom says mine, her she also has one. Of course.

SPEAKER_01

Okay.

SPEAKER_00

Mine apparently is a little bit better than her, so we'll we'll link mine.

SPEAKER_01

Okay. That we're gonna have to add that to our agenda. I want to play cards. I feel like you also play bridge with Kayla.

SPEAKER_00

That was a hobby last year.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, we had a bridge instructor, Carrie.

SPEAKER_00

He hated us. That's good for like when we turned 70. He was no need to know now. I don't think Carrie would ever see this. Carrie is the youngest bridge instructor in New York City, period. How old? Right. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. For the he shouldn't be touting the youngest at this point. But that's a that's his like byline? That was what we were like sold on. And when he showed up the first day, we were like, oh. Like there's You're the youngest? Okay, interesting. Yeah. But he wasn't a huge fan of the crew. Yeah, shocker. Yeah. So we're gonna have to figure out a better bridge is really, really hard. You really like that is a borderline full-time job to figure out.

SPEAKER_01

I think it's so hard. I my parents have tried to teach me and my grandmother. And I also just think, like, don't we have time later in life? Like, hopefully, we will will retire one day and can learn then. Why do I need to learn right now?

SPEAKER_00

Why not? Yeah, I guess. Listen, bridge is not for me. Women in Palm Beach are breaking up friendships over a bridge. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

You need to understand why. I mean, my mom plays bridge twice a week.

SPEAKER_00

I don't think that's.

SPEAKER_01

Does she have a card shuffler? She got one. She doesn't. She doesn't really play at home. Sometimes she has people over, but she usually goes to the club. I bet they don't like the card shuffler. Well, I think they like lay them out for I'm not a. There's probably a lot of like cheating skin.

SPEAKER_00

When you play in a group, all the tables are given the same type of cards. Did you know that? Honestly, someone at Netflix or HBR figure figure this out. That's a documentary series right there. The drama that I've heard coming out of a bridge.

SPEAKER_01

Palm Beach Bridge would be a good something.

unknown

Okay.

SPEAKER_01

Mahjong 2, I think, can have some serious. I want to sort of go to a mahjong competition. I think those are intense. Okay. If you pick up a tile wrong in the way that they're passing them out, you're done. Like the Charleston part of passing mahjongs. If you mess that up.

SPEAKER_00

I'm excited. And we're gonna we're gonna teach you Mahjong. They're gonna go down and say this is the most relatable podcast on air.

Managing overwhelm vs. anxiety and a jealousy filter

SPEAKER_01

You can do all your hobbies with us. Okay. To sort of wrap things up, since we've done some of the fun stuff, I want to dive into something like a little bit deeper. I feel like we maybe kind of learned from you, but I want to hear like when you're anxious, how do you like when you're having a hard time, how do you sort of move through it? Or what are your like tips and tricks? And maybe we've already learned that a tip is to write out your to-do list the night before. Because I do like the concept of like having a calmer brain. I get the most anxious when I fall asleep.

SPEAKER_00

Yes. In general, I mean, on a like very light anxiety, or I would say there's Can you tell we run anxious? We we have some anxiety issues. There's being overwhelmed and there's being anxious, right? Yeah. Which would you say you are? I would say I'm mostly leaning towards overwhelmed in this world, in which case it's just sometimes taking the pause of even if it's like a crazy scribble, putting it somewhere where I'm not entirely responsible for the information. Okay. Love. And then putting it in a way that then I can digest. Yeah. So if that's my schedule or to-do list, that's one way. It's keeping my home in order. Like that is one of my biggest non-negotiables. Okay. It's just no matter what, when I get home, the bag gets unpacked.

SPEAKER_01

Like just those things have to be happening. Are you one of those people who does, like, I feel like TikToks posting out about all these like five minutes before you go to bed, clean up your house, like get everything, what do they call that? Yeah. They have a term for it, right? Like sh uh close down the house for the night or something like that. Um, like put your blankets back, put the pillows where they're supposed to go.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I try roughly speaking, like it's I wouldn't say it's like right before necessarily, but it something has to happen where we like are just in our base state. Is PJ helping with that or are you doing are you running the clean ship show? He does not have what my um overwhelmed situation. Okay. He like we're so different that way. I have to, if something has to be done before I sit down on the couch, for example, like I must address those things versus he'd rather come home, take a beat, and then do it.

SPEAKER_01

So you will so you're doing the dishes right after you ate, he's leaving them in the sink and doing them later. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And he's not not doing them. I want to give him credit. It's just we do it in the opposite order. Got it. So I'd say for overwhelmed, that's it's just I like to control what I can control or take a beat where I can, which is not always an option. Okay. Anxious, I think, is a different thing. I think anxiety is the things that creep up probably when you're lying in bed, lying in bed that are a little bit harder to control. Yeah. That it feels like more like a perspective shift situation.

SPEAKER_01

Do you go to therapy? I feel like you're not a therapy person.

SPEAKER_00

I I have a therapist. I okay, I try to use it when it seems like right for me. Sometimes I feel like we're just talking at each other and it doesn't make sense. We know we can fill a room. We can talk the whole time. Yeah, you should go see someone else right now. Okay. Um but when feeling overwhelmed, I think that with age, first of all, just happens a little less because totally. I'm so much happier in my 30s. Yeah, just you're more comfortable in your life, plus like life has started to happen to you a bit. So what used to feel like the end of the world you realize was just another day. And like once you have that perspective, it's harder and harder to feel overwhelmed. Yeah. So like it fades a little bit. But that's how it still happens. And so in those moments, I try to like just do like a little bit of a reminder of like, okay, what's gonna happen if like you know, this worst case scenario occurs? Right. What is what is the worst case? What's gonna happen? Am I still a good person? I'm still smart, I see you know, et cetera, et cetera. Like, is someone gonna get hurt? Like, is there gonna actually be a real consequence?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_00

And then you can start to talk yourself down.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And also, can I do something? Can I if it's so bad, can I do something about it, or is it really out of my hands? Right. And in which case, also, like, how do we come to terms with that?

SPEAKER_01

I like that, Caroline. Yeah, you gotta you just Okay, so in that vein, what would you what advice would you give like your 22-year-old self?

SPEAKER_00

I think I was explaining this to a girl at work recently. It's like a jealousy filter. Love. Which is, I think, especially when you're 22, you spend all this time like looking at everyone else, like you're side, side, side. Right. Trying to like compare yourself.

SPEAKER_01

Everyone else is doing the game.

SPEAKER_00

And you know, they say jealousy is the thief of joy type thing. Yeah. And so now, if I do start to feel that type of way, although it's really hard to even get me to feel that way, but good for you. I have to ask myself, okay. If I see, I don't know, if I see you and I'm like, I'm jealous right now. Yeah, I have to ask myself, one, you know, what is exactly the thing I'm jealous of? Great. Is that something I can control? If I'm so jealous of it, right, can I pursue that thing? Right.

SPEAKER_01

Can I go by that? Can I go buy that?

SPEAKER_00

Can I two, do I actually really want to do that action? Right. Like, you know, maybe I see someone with a certain career or stage of life thing, and I'm like, yeah, in theory, I could go do that, but like, do I actually want to? Yeah. And then, or it's option B, which is it's something I can't control. You know, there's so many other life circumstances which mean I'm just that's never gonna be me. Like, in which case, maybe it's just then becoming an aspirational thing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Oh my god, if we knew that when we were 22, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Like, it's never gonna be me. Stop thinking about it. Yeah, it just uh because then it lets you uh address it very quickly and come back to you because the second you're focusing on other people, you're not having a good time. That's so true. I love that.

SPEAKER_01

Okay, let's just do a few quick fire questions and then I will let you get out of here. All right. What was your last fashion purchase?

SPEAKER_00

Well, I'm on I've been on a bit of a vendor. Nan witness my vendor. Um Caroline's a great shopper. It's we have very different tastes, but she's an amazing shopper, and I love seeing what she buys. It started on our girls' trip to Montecito when we walked into the Chanel, and I was very, very convinced that the new collection wouldn't be there, and it would just sort of push me, you know, out of the store. Unfortunately, we walked in the day that the new collection got there. Caroline killed it. That was actually like I sh that was unacceptable behavior, but I'm very, very happy with the purchases, and index says I'm using them, so it's fine. Tell us one of them, or which what I mean, can you pick a favorite? Well, I'm wearing my new flats now, and then okay, so black and white flats. It actually is uh ice blue. Oh, excuse me, sorry. Um, and then we did walk out with a small flap and a vanity. Um, but we're very happy. And you've been using them. We've been using them, so it's good. Okay, great. Um try to think. I'm actually trying to pre-shop for my trip to Italy this summer. When are you guys going? We're going in June. And I just I something I've also learned about myself is I do care about what I wear on these trips, but will you plan out like every outfit?

SPEAKER_01

Like each night?

unknown

Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

See, that's it. I make power points. Oh, of course you do. Oh my god. I need to send you this gal's TikTok. I mean, um, she was on TikTok, but also a Substack, and she was talking about how she made her PowerPoints.

SPEAKER_00

I don't have that same But then it's just it brings me joy, you know? Right, no, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

I'm not doing it if I'll do it. Okay, I love it. So this could be Italy, but what is something that you're really excited about in the next like two to three months?

SPEAKER_00

I'm definitely looking forward to Italy. We're going to the north of Italy, which I've been to before, but my family has not. Okay. So we're doing a whole trip, the whole gang.

SPEAKER_01

I don't know if I know what the north of Italy is.

SPEAKER_00

So it's Milan, like in the like more short term, I'm seeing La La Land live in concert conducted by the composer, and I'm very excited about that as well.

SPEAKER_01

You love a good New York City experience. You're always going to things.

SPEAKER_00

A woman using free will, it's me. Like I just I'll do it all. I feel like you have a way of knowing what the next thing is that I don't even know. It's not even about know you maybe not even knowing about the next thing, but I You spend a lot of time on the internet, so you kind of know what you're doing. Yeah, that's like a whole separate issue. But um, I think you kind of acknowledge us. We went on a tour of Central Park last year for Mother's Day with this incredible tour guide, Mark. Can we link to Mark?

SPEAKER_01

Is Mark like a yeah?

SPEAKER_00

Mark's on social movement. Okay. He's great. He's the best. He is incredible. Um, and we've passed him on to many people. But he does all his tours of places in the city through the lens of like kind of how did this place come to be here? Okay. So we even did one like the Natural History Museum with him of the concept of like, why is this here? Why is this? Oh the museum as a whole. Like, not even like what's inside of it necessarily. Well, in part, but you know, how is this part of the history of New York? Love that. Okay. And once you start, it's just such a special city when you start thinking about that. Like we really think about it like hard. Yeah. So finding more things like that. Okay, what is like, do you have a life motto? I think it's life happens on a Tuesday. Like you're never gonna know when that bad, hard one thing's gonna come. So enjoy the moments in between. You know, you can constantly, constantly complain about what you don't have. Like you can do that endlessly, but also to what effect. Um, you know, if you're happy, healthy, just have a little honestly.

SPEAKER_01

Okay, that's free. Love. Um, that's it for the podcast. Caroline, thank you for coming. Tell everyone where they can follow you and how they can find you.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, my digital footprint's insane.

SPEAKER_01

Um We will link to everything in the show notes so you can click down and find everything, but just tell us too.

SPEAKER_00

I'm snarkiest and probably most chatty on Instagram. No, TikTok, I think. Oh, I'm on a break with TikTok. I'm there. Okay. My follow-up. My legacy is there in a single tailoring video. And I have a shop my where I just honestly link stuff that I'm about to buy. So in a way, it's like not bad advice. It means I like it. No, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Caroline has awesome style, so we'll link to all of those. Amazing. Caroline, thanks so much for coming on. I'm so grateful for you to take the time. And thank you for listening to NoteRec. With Nan. Like, subscribe, comment, do all the things because we are new and growing, so we need all the support. And we'll be back next week with another episode. Bye. That's a wrap. Do you have a noteworthy tip? Leave it in the comments below. Thanks for listening.