Noteworthy with Nan

Sarah Lederman: Interior Design, Landline Phones & Hulken Bags

• Nan Philip • Season 1 • Episode 3

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For the third episode of the podcast, Nan sits down with her friend (and former PR client!) Sarah Lederman, a New York-based interior designer and the founder of Three Fates Textiles, a brand new textile and wallpaper line that is an extension of Sarah's signature layered, collected aesthetic.

They talk about the year-long journey of bringing Three Fates to market, the Greco-Roman influences behind her first collection, and why launching through trade showrooms like Temple Studio, Design Social Studio and Harbinger felt like the right first step.

Then Nan asks some practical questions about interior design – when and how to hire an interior designer, what makes a good client, and Sarah's high-low approach to deciding when to spend and when to save.

We also get Sarah’s perspective on raising two daughters in New York City without iPads or cell phones, the "Wait Until 8th" pledge, Sarah's recent travels to Bhutan and Morocco, and the family tennis ritual at Randall's Island that has become her favorite weekend hobby.

The episode closes with Sarah sharing three noteworthy tips for small tools and systems that help her stay grounded at work and at home.

Find links to everything Sarah mentions on our Substack: https://nanphilip.substack.com/p/noteworthy-sarah-lederman 

Stay tuned for more Noteworthy with Nan episodes every Thursday!!


Follow Sarah: 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sarahledermaninteriors/ 


Follow Three Fates Textiles: 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/threefatestextiles/ 


Follow Nan:

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nan.philip/ 

TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@nan_philip 


Follow the podcast:

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/noteworthywithnan/ 

TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@noteworthywithnan 

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@NoteworthyWithNan 


Timestamps: 

02:08 Launching Three Fates Textiles

05:08 How to Hire an Interior Designer 

10:40 Fashion, Jewelry & Resetting Her Engagement Ring 

16:23 Raising Kids in NYC Without Phones 

21:46 Travels to Bhutan, Morocco & Beyond 

24:06 Family Tennis & Other Hobbies 

29:45 Noteworthy Tips: Granola, Skylight & Hulken 

40:09 Life Motto: "Everything Is Figureoutable"


Credits:

Host: Nan Philip

Executive Producer: Julia Aubuchon

Technical Director: Drew Downing

Guest: Sarah Lederman 

SPEAKER_01

Hi everyone, welcome back. We are here with my friend Sarah Letterman. Sarah, thanks for joining us.

SPEAKER_00

Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_01

I was thinking about like how long we've known each other, and I feel like at least five years.

SPEAKER_00

I definitely reached out to you during COVID.

SPEAKER_01

Yes, and I feel like we had coffee once before you sort of fully launched your interior design firm.

SPEAKER_00

I think you were at Wheezy.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, oh my god, years ago. Yeah. Um, but Sarah was one of my clients when I had a PR firm for a while, and now she's just stuck being one of my friends now that I don't do that. And our studio, if you're watching on YouTube, um, is in Sarah's office. So really Welcome to my office. Yeah, noteworthy with Nan exists. Thanks to Sarah. Yeah, exciting stuff.

SPEAKER_00

Will you everyone like a little intro on who you are? And um, I am an interior designer. I'm based in New York. I focus primarily on residential work. Um, and I recently launched a textile and wallpaper line called Three Fates Textiles, um, which is really sort of an extension of my design ethos. Um and then I live on the upper west side with my husband and my two daughters, who are one is almost nine and one just turned six.

SPEAKER_01

Oh fun. Okay, I love it. So to start, I like to ask everyone for a high and a low from the last week.

SPEAKER_00

Um, high, I would say, was getting my first big order for Three Fates Textile. Oh my gosh, congratulations! So exciting. I feel like it like solidified that this is a real business. Um, and then low was, and you can probably hear it in my voice. I um got this cold that was going around New York City probably because of these like wild temperature swings last weekend, and like everyone in my family's been getting sick. So you know, never fun. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Okay, I'm so excited about the fabric, wallpaper, everything that you're doing, and I want to dive into, I feel like it's been interesting knowing you through it because it took you about a year to launch, like from concept to launch, which I think a lot of people don't really realize that it takes that long to bring something to market. Yeah. So, how did you? I know that you sort of studied fabrics in college. What did you do?

SPEAKER_00

I was actually a textile and apparel major. So, like thinking that I was gonna go into fashion, but there was a lot of um, like I learned about biking, um indigo dyeing, like I was like always coming home and like my hands were dyed blue and my roommates were like, what are you doing? That's so cool. Um, I then realized I didn't really want to be in fashion, so I pivoted to be a fine arts major, but I definitely took that background with me. Okay. And I think, you know, straight out of college, I wasn't ready to do something like this. But I think now that I have like a decade of interior design under my belt and the understanding of like what I wasn't seeing in the market, um, what scales and patterns I'm drawn to, um, what I wasn't finding, having that sort of layered onto the, you know, having studied this was an important thing, I think, for me to actually get to a place where I was ready to launch the brand.

SPEAKER_01

Did you always know that you wanted to do both fabric and wallpaper, or were you just gonna do one and then ended up doing both?

SPEAKER_00

It's pretty easy once you design a pattern to pivot into both. So I think it sort of made sense for me to have both. Um, also, like my patterns are like my children, so I want to see them everywhere. Um, but I will say the wallpapers are one scale and then the fabrics are like 50% scale because I feel like I tend to use like a bigger boulder wallpaper, but maybe like a smaller pattern on, you know, a fabric on a chair, on a pillow, whatever.

SPEAKER_01

Um, so they are different scales, but I feel like that's why it's nice that you're an interior designer first before you do the fabric. Because you're doing those, like when someone just like launches a product, like you actually know how it's gonna be used.

SPEAKER_00

Right. Um and I thought a lot about that in terms of like, okay, um, this is getting very technical, I feel like, but my patterns come with a little detail on the selvage, which is the edge of the fabric. So um I really wanted it to feel like a complete product experience. Like you don't have to go out and buy a trim to make a pillow. You can use that selvage and put it on the border of the pillow or on the, you know, deck of a chair, or make things feel very bespoke, but without having to go that extra mile and get another product. It's all part and parcel.

SPEAKER_01

I should have researched this before you came on, but I don't technically know. Is the product just available to designers to the trade?

SPEAKER_00

Or currently it's to the trade. Um, I am in talks about ways to bring a retail element to the market, maybe pillows or something like that. Okay. Um, but I just was like, let me take this one step at a time, you know, bite-sized building a business. Um, and to me, starting with to the trade, um, I'm now in three showrooms. Oh, tell us which one. Um, so Temple Studio, which is where I launched, um, which is in New York City. Yep. And I am now in Design Social Studio for the Southeast Territory and Harbinger in LA.

SPEAKER_01

I feel like for anyone listening who's not super well versed in the interior design world, like describe the trade and when when we say, like, oh, this is to the trade, like why that exists and what it sort of means.

SPEAKER_00

I mean, most designers, it seems so old school, but I think most of us are still operating this way, where you are billing your client um with a markup on top of a trade discount. And that's sort of like the like bread and butter of this industry, like getting that trade discount. Um, so designer pricing is one thing, retail pricing is another. Um, I guess in theory, you could go to Temple Studio and buy it at retail, but I think this is really a designer product. Yeah. I think like buying raw fabric and then figuring out how to use it is not something that the average person is going and doing. Um, so you know, this is really meant to be used for upholstery, curtains. Um you need the designer to help you figure that out.

SPEAKER_01

Okay, so on that vein, I think I have so many friends and probably people who are listening who might want to hire an interior designer but don't really know. Like, I feel like I grew up in a world where my mom loved interior design. I really understood how it worked. But if you didn't grow up in a world where your parents had interior designers, I think it's confusing to know can I afford one? How does it work? Like, what would you tell the 35-year-old newly married married couple about interior design?

SPEAKER_00

You know, I think there are two things. I think I get um a lot of inquiries from people who have actually like never looked at my website or like really my Instagram. It's like it could be a referral from a friend, and they think that interior designers just sort of like bend to your will. Oh. And um I with so I would say do your research, like, you know, you know what you like, but there are a lot of people who don't know what they like. Right. I had someone call me and I was like, listen, if you're like a very minimalist modernist, like I don't think I'm the right person. Totally.

SPEAKER_01

Sarah has amazing, like textured layered.

SPEAKER_00

I really like a layered, collected look. And I feel like if you're reaching out to a designer, I wouldn't expect that you are going to change their worldview. Like there needs to be a match on both sides. Um, so I and it's so personal. We're talking about people's homes. Um, so I think that that match is really important. Um, and then like being upfront about the budget that you have. So, you know, I feel like a lot of people reach out to me and they say, I don't know what my budget is. And I'm like, even a range, I think, is helpful. Um, I then will get on the phone with someone and be like and throw out a number and they're like, oh, that's way too high. I'm like, so you do have a budget. Right. You know, like I think I don't need we don't need to hone in on exactly what that is. And I'm happy to provide guidance, but there is a range where you're like, this is the top tier and this is the you know, low, high, low range of where I'm looking.

SPEAKER_01

Like, let's say you have a client and they are getting a custom sofa or buying a sofa. I mean, we're I in my mind, in my mind, it's like $10,000 plus, right?

SPEAKER_00

I think it totally depends. Uh, you know, I don't really like to pigeon myself and hole myself into saying, like, you must buy a custom this. I really operate in a world where most of my clients are doing a high, low approach. They're young families. And so it's like, should we get a sofa from Maiden Home? Because you don't want to spend $10,000 on a custom sofa. Let's do that. Okay. But then let's get a custom, like window treatments are almost always custom. Right. Depending on the size of the room, the rug is custom. So I feel like my um worth is really earned in helping people figure out like where should you spend and where should you save.

SPEAKER_01

Okay.

SPEAKER_00

I think that's helpful.

SPEAKER_01

But I think it's just like this hard thing where like almost the world knows, like, oh, a designer bag costs X, but you see these beautiful homes and you really don't know.

SPEAKER_00

I also think that it's an industry that is just really not standardized. Like there are people out there who are charging hourly. You can go on the expert, you can go on one of these platforms and pay someone for an hour of their time. Um, it's just not my what you're offering, yeah. What I'm offering. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Are you still with the new fabric line taking some interior design clients?

SPEAKER_00

I'm taking some design clients. I am taking some consulting jobs for the first time, which is kind of fun because like going into the summer, launching a brand, I just was like, let me sort of like work with my existing clients and then take on some smaller bite-sized things. Um so would that be more so someone saying, like, just give me ideas of what room what I go buy on my own? Yes. So in my consulting work, I don't do the purchasing. Okay, so that's sort of my rule because like once you start doing purchasing, I feel like you could be in it with someone for like six months. Yeah. Um, so it's more like, here are my ideas, run with them.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, I love that offering. I think that's also a very good like intro off intro step for people if maybe you're in your 30s and you can't afford a whole home by a designer. Like start with just getting some good advice because like the way that a designer knows scale and knows what's gonna work together is so valuable.

SPEAKER_00

And I will say I still don't do virtual, even my consultations are all, you know, in and around New York because like for me, I just feel like I need to see a space, I need to like understand what's happening. Like, I don't really understand the virtual thing, but to each other.

SPEAKER_01

Okay. Okay, that's interesting. What do you feel like maybe it's budget, but are there any other things that like make a good client? I think a lot of times people hire an interior designer and they think like, oh, well, I'm paying someone a lot of money, but it's still an interaction. And like I think you can be a good client or a bad client.

SPEAKER_00

I think it all comes down to trust. You know, if you feel that your client doesn't trust you, um that's where it all goes downhill. So I feel like it's a very intimate relationship. And I think if you don't trust your designer, then it's probably time to part ways.

SPEAKER_01

And like good to do goes back to then doing your research to make sure they're the right fit. Yes. Like, okay, I love that idea. Switching gears slightly from interior design, I feel like most interior designers, and just I know you and you have amazing taste, also have great fashion taste and love to shop the way I do. And so I wanted to ask you sort of about your taste in fashion, what you love to wear, what brands are on your radar.

SPEAKER_00

Before I get into trouble because I really like fashion and I feel like it is a direct extension of my aesthetic. Like to me, when I get dressed in the morning, it's like all part of the same like my home, my wardrobe. Like, I'm just like, I like everything to be very buttoned up. Um, I would say, okay, are we talking about brands that we're gonna do? Well, first I want to know your sweater that you're wearing because it's very cheap. I honestly don't know. I got it from a store that is two blocks away from me that I'm like, I want to shop. There's only one store on the upper west side. Let's plug it. What's it called? It's called Bach B-O-C. Okay. Um, and I just feel like we should shop at our local stores if we want them to still exist. No, that's so true. Like, I'll go in there and like I could order this thing online, but I want to buy it there because I don't want them to disappear. So that's a good.

SPEAKER_01

Do you ever go to this store? The one store that's kind of like that, I feel like on the Upper East Side is the Edit. It's like way up in the 90s. I think that's a good thing I like that store too. Like boots.

SPEAKER_00

But you guys have way more stuff over here. The West Side is like a desert for food and fashion. So Okay.

SPEAKER_01

Um, but tell me other brands on your radar, what you're buying, what's on your wish list.

SPEAKER_00

Okay, I'm really obsessed with Addersea right now. Um have you bought anything from their spring? I'm trying to think what I did. I got a really amazing skirt that I wore to a benefit the other night. Um it's like sort of draped on the side, it's pale yellow, it's floor length, which is so outside of my wheelhouse, but I was like, okay, I want to run side of the comfort zone. It sounds very cool. Um, I really love Kalmyyer. I feel like they are Kalmire.

SPEAKER_01

We talked about the other our last episode, we talked about Kalmire. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

I feel like they're doing cool, like tailored. I feel like both brands have this like sort of minimalist aesthetic, but like with this unique sculptural twist, and the fabrics are interesting and they feel elevated, and it feels like something that you would just have in your closet forever, which is definitely my um, you know, that's how I shop.

SPEAKER_01

Sarah has a good edit. Like we were, I feel like last time we were talking, I was like, oh my god, my closet is overwhelming me.

SPEAKER_00

Like I think I sent you a picture of my jeans drawer, which has like five pairs of jeans.

SPEAKER_01

The fact that's what you said. You have you're like, I have five to seven pairs of jeans. And I was like, I think I have 15, if not more, which is I realize is insane.

SPEAKER_00

But tight edit on my wardrobe, like a one in one out.

SPEAKER_01

And you do I feel like I tell people I do a one in one out, and that's just so not true.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Um it helps that I moved recently, so I like did a purge. Okay. Um, but I can't have like piles of clothes, like, and I sort of I wouldn't say I'm a uniform dresser at all, but like I have my go-tos. Yeah, and you know what works for you.

SPEAKER_01

I feel like you're kind of other than like a benefit where you said you wore a skirt. I feel like you're a pants gal during the day, right?

SPEAKER_00

I like a good pair of pants.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And I really like denim. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Where are you buying your denim from these days?

SPEAKER_00

Um, I don't want to tell you, but my god, tell us. I really like Kate jeans. I'm wearing them right now. Okay. Um, but I also like vintage Levi's. Same. Um where do you find your vintage Levi's? I actually got two pairs. I'm gonna plug another friend, but I have a friend with a very cute store that's been on Main Street in Bridgehampton for like decades. Her mom used to own it and now she runs it. It's next to the candy kitchen. Okay. And what's it called? It's called Waves.

SPEAKER_01

Okay.

SPEAKER_00

And she went to Texas and sourced all these vintage Levi's. And I feel like she also like knows what looks good on me. And she's like, here, these two pairs are for you.

SPEAKER_01

I think that's why it's nice to shop. I mean, she's obviously your friend, but if you do shop regularly at a store and before I mean I became friends with her because I shopped at the store.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, I love it.

SPEAKER_01

You know, like then they start to know how to shop for you, and they like because I definitely hear that when I listen to podcasts or whatever, how people sort of shop for their clients. There is a personal element that like you're not getting from online shopping, you know. But then I am like the one who's like, oh, I don't want to go try on jeans in person. I'd rather try them and on like order all the different sizes in the comfort of your situation for me.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And then you have it. Yes. You have your five pairs of jeans. Yes. I'm impressed. Um, let's talk about jewelry quickly because I know both you and I love some good gold jewelry. I like what you're wearing, fewer finer. Um, it's a fewer finer.

SPEAKER_00

Um, what is this called? What does it call that? Flexible collar. Flexible collar. Um, and then this is a little Marlo Laz charm.

SPEAKER_01

I don't want anything from Marl Laz yet, but I always like the look of it.

SPEAKER_00

I haven't bought jewelry in a really long time because the price of gold right now is so scary. Insane. I'm really lucky because I had a grandmother who had all these cool pieces, and some of them are like, oh, this is so 80s and crazy. But some of them I'm like, is this cool now? Like, I think I'm gonna go to the city. Yeah, I think it's coming back. Totally. Like she had like a you know, Roman coin that I wear a lot. Oh, love. Um, and stuff like that. So I'll try to sort of like reinvent with old things.

SPEAKER_01

I think that means we have to keep everything, sort of. Don't get don't clean out too much of your closet so your girls can take what you have. Um, okay, any jewelry other than vintage, like on your radar that you're you might want to buy next.

SPEAKER_00

Ariel Ratner, she reset my engagement rate. Tell us about that.

SPEAKER_01

Because I think people get scared. Like, did your husband mind that you wanted to reset your engagement rate?

SPEAKER_00

I think at first he was sort of like, why do you want to do that? But to be totally honest with you, I had not worn it. What did it look like originally? It was very simple. It was a solitaire. Okay. Um, and it was beautiful, but I also was like a child when I got engaged, and I had no idea what I wanted. Um, and I feel like I, as you know, have a very specific aesthetic, and I just didn't feel like it reflected that.

SPEAKER_01

Right.

SPEAKER_00

Um, and I wanted something like a little outside the box and different, and I have worn it every single day since she reset it. And so now I think he was like, Well, that was a good choice.

SPEAKER_01

And you knew, I mean, I follow Ariel too, her work's beautiful. And so then is she based here in New York?

SPEAKER_00

I'm thinking she's based in New York. Okay. Um, actually, live on the same block. And yeah, she is in the Diamond District. I took it to her, I met with her, and then I had a beautiful ring like a month later.

SPEAKER_01

That's amazing. Yeah. Sarah has the cutest daughters, they're just like adorable. And I love sort of seeing what you guys are up to. But I'm curious, I mean, I'm someone without kids, but like raising kids to begin with, girls feels like a lot of work. And then the added layer of being in New York City just feels like a lot. Like in a great way, they're exposed to a lot, but I feel like probably also in a hard way they're exposed to everything.

SPEAKER_00

Yes, a hundred percent. I think um when I think about navigating their futures, like even in the short term, long term, whatever, like that's what keeps me up at night. Like it stresses me out. Um, I spend a lot of time worrying about like AI cell phones.

SPEAKER_01

Do they um have cell phones yet? No. They do not have to be able to do that. Tell us their ages again.

SPEAKER_00

Um one is almost nine and one is six.

SPEAKER_01

Do nine-year-old, other nine-year-olds have cell phones?

SPEAKER_00

I don't know what their norm is. Okay. They almost all have iPads that they are allowed to use on weekends, but my kids have nothing. Like I'm very much a technicalist. Okay. Um, and I I don't know. I think what I worry about is that like I see people with, I see these very young children with Apple Watches, um, iPads on group text threads, unfettered access to YouTube, and my kids have none of that, which I feel good about. But also, like, are they sort of gonna be behind the curve? Yeah. You know, like explaining to them, like, well, the rules in that house are different than the rules in our house. And like that feeling doesn't um lead me to bend on that. Like, I'm still I still feel strongly that I'm like doing the right thing.

SPEAKER_01

And you know, do they never watch TV or like on the weekends they can watch TV?

SPEAKER_00

Oh, they totally watch TV. Okay. And I've actually gotten them into um the movies of like my childhood. Like they love Father of the Bride. Oh my gosh. Um, which has been really fun. Okay. Um, so I'm certainly not like a no screens in my home, but like I don't want them having phones. And yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Do you have in your mind like a year that they will get a phone or you'll just figure it out as it goes?

SPEAKER_00

There is sort of this like pledge going around. Um, and I think it was started by Jonathan Hayde, who wrote The Anxious Generation about waiting until eighth grade. Okay. Um, and so there are schools that are like the parents are sort of passing around like wait until eighth grade. I don't know. I feel like I need to feel it out. Um, I feel like so much data is coming out even on a daily basis, and like it's not good. Right. Yeah. So we all know. We all know we use the phone. The more I read, the more I'm like, you're never getting a phone.

SPEAKER_01

Do you ever worry? This is like me putting my own worries on you, but I feel like I scroll Instagram all the time. Like, do you think about how you use your phone in front of them or just like life's going on?

SPEAKER_00

Let's go. I do, but I also just feel like um it's a part of work for me. Right. Um, and even like social media is like Instagram is a channel to sell product and promote my business. And I'm not saying that as an excuse, but I also feel like the rules for adults are different than the rules for children in so many different areas.

SPEAKER_01

And also, like, no one's getting mad at a dad if he's responding to a work email. Right. So, like if you're posting on Instagram, that's your work too. Right. Do your girls like love that you work or have interest in your job and what you do, or it's do they get it?

SPEAKER_00

Neither of them have said they want to be interior designers. My older one told me yesterday she wants to be an author, and then my younger one wants to be a pediatrician, which I think is very noble. Okay, love it. Um so I'm happy to encourage that. Although I am like, I started this business so that you guys would like take it over one day, but okay. Um always change. But it's been really fun launching the textile brand. There's a lot of everyone's always like, who sends is sending out all these sample packages? I'm like, it's me, it's me and my children. And it is like an assembly line of free labor where we're like making sample packages, and then my husband is at like the end of the line, like tying a ribbon around them all. So it has definitely um been a family affair. That will be fun for them to look back on. I think I'll like really respect that.

SPEAKER_01

And you have, I know in your new apartment, wall some of the wallpaper's up, right?

SPEAKER_00

So they can see like my mom made this. Yes, totally. Um, and they have like each have a pillow in their room, and we have some of the furniture upholstered in it. And yeah, I think it's exciting to see um an idea come to something tangible like that.

SPEAKER_01

Speaking to the fact that you have kids and our interior designer, do you I always love like the kids' rooms that you've designed. And I feel like you don't sort of, no offense to anyone, dumb things down for children. Like you're you really have a way to have it be sophisticated, but still happy and fun for children.

SPEAKER_00

And I think um, you know, I presented my kids with schemes as if I would present a client. I was like, here are your options, but like we're not gonna just choose whatever we want. Like, this is actually my apartment. Um, and so one of my kids chose, she is obsessed with purple and she wanted everything to be like, I was like, okay, we're not gonna do like bright purple, we're gonna do like everything in soft lavender tones. So you're leading her in the right direction. So, like, and her room is so lovely. Um, and then my other daughter chose actually a friend of mine, Caitlin Magali, has um a beautiful wallpaper line. And so she chose like a little floral wallpaper, but like I go in there when she's not there, and I'm like, I just I could live in this room. You know, it feels like something that she could really grow into. Um, she loves it now, but I also think like it's not something where I'm gonna have to change it later.

SPEAKER_01

I think that's key. Like something they can really do.

SPEAKER_00

I I don't understand that, like putting up like sort of a baby wallpaper, and then like your kid's not a baby for very long.

SPEAKER_01

No. And that when they are a baby, they're not really appreciating it. Like it's not like they really know. Yeah. Let's switch gears slightly and talk about traveling because you are like my constant travel inspo. Sarah always goes to the coolest places, like things I've never heard of. She was I mean, I've heard of, but recently she went to Bhutan, which just wouldn't would have never crossed my mind. So I'm first curious like, did you and your brother grow up traveling a ton when you were kids? Have you always been try interested in travel?

SPEAKER_00

It's interesting, my parents are not huge travelers. Okay. I mean, you know, we went on some trips to Europe, but we didn't go to the far-flung places that my husband and I go. Like, I feel like we're like the farther away and the more exotic it is, the more we want to do it. And have you guys always done that since you've been married, or sort of in time you've gotten to that? Um, I feel like we actually did it more not before we got married, but before we had kids. Yeah. Um, we were like, let's get in as much travel as we can. Um, and then we really try to like, it doesn't necessarily happen every year, but maybe every other year go on a trip alone without our children. Like, we did not take our children to Bhutan. Yeah. Um, and I think that that's really important.

SPEAKER_01

Where are some of your favorite places that you've been recently or ever?

SPEAKER_00

Well, Bhutan was epic. Okay. I mean, I think I've become something of like a spiritual, like more woo-woo person in my like later, not later, but like, you know, my older years. Um, and there's something like very spiritual about going there. It's a lot of going to monasteries, meeting with monks. We even like we did this hike to the tiger's nest is the big climb that you do, and we had a monk climb with us, and like it just was amazing. Um, and so outside the box, I don't think we saw an American for two weeks. That's it. So I would say like it's one of those places where it's on the cusp of really opening up to tourism, and like if you can go now, it just feels like a more authentic experience.

SPEAKER_01

Um Morocco was that recently.

SPEAKER_00

Morocco was um a couple years ago. And you know, Marrakesh is definitely it's not not a touristy place, um, but you can like get lost in the Medina. And I, as you know, love searching for like all kinds of handmade things. So like rugs, ceramics, um, wicker, and my husband is very much along for the ride when like I go down that rabbit hole. So that was super fun to like make connections with all these craftspeople. And yeah.

SPEAKER_01

When you mentioned that you think it's valuable for the two of you to go on a trip together, do you find you like have that in your habits and your routines throughout life? Like, do you guys have a date night that you always have? Is it hard to make time for each other?

SPEAKER_00

It's so hard because I feel like it's like you really have to think about like when is it worth it to get a babysitter? Because it's like, so you're going out to dinner, you're paying for your meal, you're paying for your babysitter, which is like it just all adds up. And I wish I could say that we had like a standing date night, but unfortunately we don't. We've said so many times that we need to do that. But something that we have committed to doing, which I'm really excited about, is and this is like, you know, jumping into hobbies, but no, I wanted you to tell everyone I love this. Uh, so our whole family started playing tennis together on Saturdays, and that has been a super fun thing to do. Um, and then my husband and I were like, well, maybe we should play by ourselves too over the summer. So we're gonna have like a Wednesday tennis night, just the two of us.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, that's so fun. Which I think we'll be really. I think that's really smart. Yeah. Did you are your girls like I feel like it's a little different in New York, but maybe not. I feel like so many kids are like doing all the sports on the weekends, having all that stuff. They don't have that as much.

SPEAKER_00

We're not like a naturally athletic family. Neither. Oh my gosh. I don't think my kids are super into team sports, which is why I was like, maybe we're racket sport people.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, let's try this. And they're into it. They like it.

SPEAKER_00

And they really like it. Okay. Um I feel like maybe they'll do swimming, but like, no, they're not competitive. Um they're much more sort of um artsy, creative. I mean, like their mom. Yeah, I think it runs in the jeans. Will you tell everyone where you play tennis in New York City? We play at Randall's Island. Okay. Um, and it's like, I feel like everyone's like, isn't that so far away? And it's like, for me, it's I don't know, a 20-minute.

SPEAKER_01

It's not bad. I think in New York, you can like if anything's within 40 minutes of the subway, a car ride, anything, it doesn't feel that far. It's when you're in the Hamptons or when I'm in Maine and someone told me I have to drive 40 minutes, I'd be like, no, thanks.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I mean, I think it depends on where you're coming from, but for us, um, it just makes sense. And I feel like the pros are so great. It's like John McEnros Clinic.

SPEAKER_01

So Yeah, that's awesome. Okay, wait, what are you wearing for tennis? I need to work on my golf, but tennis too, clothing.

SPEAKER_00

It's been really cold all winter and we play in a bubble. And so I literally was wearing like a fleece and a puffer. Yeah, okay. That makes sense. But I was like, okay, if I'm gonna get into tennis, I want to have some like fun tennis stuff. Um, so I actually really like Wilson. Okay. I would never think they're like the old school tennis brand, but they still make like cute little skirts and stuff like that. Okay. And then I'm like eyeing some Tory Sport things.

SPEAKER_01

Tory sport stuff's cute. I just saw that Tanya Taylor, which is a brand I like. She launched a tennis line, but it was a little too kitschy or something.

SPEAKER_00

I think I'm also confused. I'm like, is it for playing or is it it said something about like after the court?

SPEAKER_01

So I was like, I looked at one of the skirts and it looked like a cute little white skirt with some colorful trim, and then it said in the details to dry clean it. And I'm like, Yeah, that's a problem for me.

SPEAKER_00

Like want to work out in athletic materials, and also I want my skirts to have like shorts attached to them.

SPEAKER_01

Like, um, speaking about workouts, you inspired me because we are always like, Oh, I don't want to go work out, but you have a trainer come to you and find and that helps, right?

SPEAKER_00

Um, I have a trainer who comes to me every Monday morning, and I feel like it's like if I don't do it first thing, start of the week, like it's just not gonna happen. But it feels like a really good way to just get the week started on the right note.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. That's smart.

SPEAKER_00

I like that.

SPEAKER_01

That's my I always say, like, if I don't work out before noon, it's never gonna happen.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Like it needs to be. I work out at eight in the morning. Okay, I'm not I like to work out at 10. That's like I take that as the benefit of working for myself that I can have a little more time. Yeah. Um, let's talk about some other hobbies. I know you are maybe learning mahjong, which I love.

SPEAKER_00

Why does mahjong stress me out? Why? I feel like it's like learning another language. Like, I am like is this above my pay grade? Gotta play together. It's been really fun. Um, and mostly just a way to get people together. Yeah. Um, and so I've enjoyed that. Um, but yeah, it definitely, I'm not a natural at the game.

SPEAKER_01

But are the people you're playing, you're playing with it? No, we're all beginners.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I think that's but I just was like, oh, we're four lessons in, and like I still haven't fully grasped this game.

SPEAKER_01

I think a key thing is have you ever played online?

SPEAKER_00

No.

SPEAKER_01

There's so there's uh I will link, I'm not sure exactly what it's called, but there's a good online website where you can play online and it's a little faster because they're doing the shuffle like automatic and like less pressure. Yeah. And you can play with robots or you could play with your friends, but I just like to play with the robots, and it's just a good way to practice and kind of learn the car.

SPEAKER_00

Because now I haven't played in like weeks since our last lesson. I'm like, do I even remember like what?

SPEAKER_01

Okay. Any other hobbies that you love? I mean, I feel like you're like me, shopping's kind of a hobby.

SPEAKER_00

Uh I feel like my um family has so many hobbies, like, and I'm just like ferrying everybody to their hobbies. Um, interestingly, like my kids started playing piano, so then my husband started playing piano. My husband's sort of like the hobby one, like he has a lot of hobbies. Okay. Um, I feel like I, you know, I like to do a crafts project like that. Love, have you done any fun with lately? You were at my collage event, which was really fun. Um, and uh I take my daughter to color me mine and try to make chic pottery. Oh it's like where you paint your own pottery. And like, I mean, I feel like there are parents who will go and be like, I'll just watch my kid paint something. I'm like, no, I'm gonna paint something too.

SPEAKER_01

Do you let her bring whatever she created home and put it in your apartment or is it sort of hidden?

SPEAKER_00

Unfortunately.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

I have a lot of like giant mermaid things. They're like, that doesn't match. Boxes and whatever. I've had to, you know, let go a little bit. That's fine. You know, that's life, I guess. Yes, yeah, life with kids.

SPEAKER_01

Okay, switching gears quickly, we like to ask all of our guests about noteworthy tips and sort of how you get through the day. As you've said, you're busy, you're doing a lot of things to take care of your kids. What are things tools and systems that help you thrive?

SPEAKER_00

Okay, so I would say um a real game changer for me in my business has been an app called Granola. Oh, I've never heard of that. And it is an AI note taker. So I feel like I was having trouble feeling like I was being present with my clients because it's like I would come in, I would have to like have a tape measure in one hand, I'm like writing down the dimensions, I'm like, don't talk to me. Like I like need to focus on what I'm doing. This allows me to not take any notes. Um the key is you have to sort of say what you're thinking. But naturally, when you're meeting with a client, you are doing that. Yeah. And it um compiles all of the notes into like, let's say you had something at the end of the conversation, but it relates to something you had at the beginning. It will like file it back in, you know, oh, interesting. In order that makes sense and it's really thoughtful. Um, and then I can send my clients that summary and makes you look really professional. Amazing. Um, and it's not um recording you in like a creepy way, it's just like literally taking notes. So there's no like recording of your voice that's like, you know, filed away in some database somewhere. So um granola, I would say. Um and then I feel like this is such a topic of conversation right now that moms bear the um mental load of the family, which I think is definitely true for me. Like keeping track of doctors' appointments, birthday parties, did you get a gift for this thing? Um, there's the talent show next week. Like, I feel like I am just the one who holds it all together. Um, and so I got something called a skylight.

SPEAKER_01

Is that the sort of TV calendar?

SPEAKER_00

Like is basically a digital calendar that's mounted now in my kitchen. Um, and so instead of being asked like 10 times by my kids, by my caregiver, by my husband, whatever, it's like, okay, go check the calendar. It's all on there. Like, we all can check what's happening every day, after school activities, whatever. So I'm like, I mean, I'm still the one that has to like make all his appointments and like keep it updated, but it operates off of a Google Google calendar. And I just feel like it's been helpful to be like go check. I don't have to tell you for the fourth time. You can see.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Oh, I like that. Okay. Um, so that's a little technology. We're letting the girls look at the calendar. Yes.

SPEAKER_00

I'm not like anti-technology, it's just like a certain level, you know. Yeah. Um, and then my third thing is on a non-technology related note, and I think you know I'm obsessed with Hulkin bags.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, yes. Oh, I've love this tip. I'm like, Hulkin, please sponsor me. Yes, Hulkin, we love your bags. I have like 15 Hulkin bags. Come on, I was with someone the other day and they had never heard of a Hulkin bag. And I'm like, you clearly don't live in New York City. Like they're all over.

SPEAKER_00

So you could bring them on an airplane.

SPEAKER_01

Like, will you tell people what they are? Like sort of describe it if you have a big thing.

SPEAKER_00

It's basically like a giant elevated garbage bag on wheels, I would say. Yeah. Um, but if you're someone like me whose job involves a lot of schlepping around and like you don't want to carry the weight of the world literally on your shoulder. Um, it's basically you it has handles and you can just drag it through the streets on wheels.

SPEAKER_01

So, like if you're taking, I have friends who use it if they're gonna I don't use it for the grocery store, but I know some people who do.

SPEAKER_00

You can use it for the grocery store. You could use it for laundry. I'm burning packages. Literally once put my child in it. Um, I don't think it's approved for that, but I have. Um and I really use it for carting around, especially now, samples. Like I'm gonna take it today to the post office and mail a bunch of samples to my store in LA. Amazing. Um, I will bring it to a client if I'm bringing my schemes to them. Um, aesthetic. This is where I let aesthetics go.

SPEAKER_01

I because we all have that line that you okay to cross. Yeah. What size do you like? There's a few different sizes, you know. I go for the biggest one. Okay, that makes sense. Yeah. Um pack it to the gills. Okay, Holkin. Love that. Back to your first trip tip, granola. Are there other what are your thoughts on AI? Are you I like am stressed by it, but want to be paying attention.

SPEAKER_00

Um, I when I think about like the long-term implications and none of us having jobs, then it stresses me out. But in the short term, I think we just have to get on board with like figuring it out because otherwise you're just gonna be behind. I mean, for me, I feel lucky that it hasn't gotten to a place yet where I feel like it's very good at visuals. Right. Like it can't design a textile line. And even when I tried to have it design a logo, I was like, no, a real person still needs to like have eyes on this. Yeah. Um it doesn't have like a refined aesthetic.

SPEAKER_01

Do you think people should I don't I wouldn't see it affecting you, but the world of interior design might change, like a floor plan, or you could probably upload now an image and change a wall color and I haven't really figured that out yet.

SPEAKER_00

I think there are probably people who have like sort of not. Um I'm still putting things together in Photoshop, popping things in and out. Like I need to do it my way to feel good about it. Um I would play with it if I think it like made a real leap, but for me, what I'm really using it for is like helping me draft emails. Um Are you using Chat GPT? I'm using ChatGPT, but I want to switch to Claude.

SPEAKER_01

I've been using Claude and I like it better. And I know it's sort of a little more respected or whatnot. Yeah. I feel like everyone's more on the Claude train, but I also do prefer it. I canceled my ChatGPT. Okay.

SPEAKER_00

And I'm now a Claude. So I'd like to switch. I think what I need to do, and I read an article about this the other day, is like take the memory from my chat GPT and like translate. Like the data so that I don't have to retrain.

SPEAKER_01

My next step is doing I have Claude, I put things in it, but I haven't downloaded the version where it's sort of working in the background. You know, you can like download it to your computer and it can do some. That scares me a little. But I think I've gotta make the jump.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

But I haven't done that yet.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. What really scares me is when I read about people who have like relationships with their chat bots, I'm like, I'm like, can we just live in the normal world?

SPEAKER_01

Like I mean, I think luckily though, we know that's not gonna be you, that's not your children.

SPEAKER_00

Like that's a little separate from us, but yes, that's insane.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. What is something that you're looking forward to in the next few months? Like, what's coming up for Sarah?

SPEAKER_00

Um, I'm really looking forward to continuing to like build the momentum around Three Fates. Um, I feel like I've gotten really interesting inquiries and I love Sarah just updated her Substacks.

SPEAKER_01

We will link to that so you can sort of follow along with what's happening with Three Fates. How do you feel like you're marketing it? Like it's hard to get something out there these days, right?

SPEAKER_00

I agree. I think that going into this, I really had this um very defined idea of what I wanted the brand to be. Um, and I think for me, a lot of this brand is about world building. Yeah. And I think people come into market with a product that they haven't really thought about like who's gonna buy it, how are you gonna sell it? Um, and so I had a very um targeted idea of the showrooms that I wanted to be in. And I've been lucky that that has been like pretty easy thus far. Um, and then I have been really focused on my social media. I've been trying to I on my personal, I'm like, I have let go. Like, I don't know what's going on over there, but on the Three Fates Instagram, which you should follow, um, I'm posting pretty much daily. And it's not just um textiles, it's like historical stuff. So, like learning about female archaeologists, because I feel like there's a storyline to this brand, like sort of digging into the past and learning about things that are um, you know, relics and we didn't really dive into that.

SPEAKER_01

I will link to some images and you can go follow so that everyone can see, but sort of just quickly describe like there is such an aesthetic to at least your first collection of three fates. Will you just tell everyone that so they guess?

SPEAKER_00

There's definitely a thread of sort of Greco-Roman influence running through it. You know, it was really influenced by like my trips to the Met, traveling, things that I saw on the wall of a, you know, fresco somewhere. Like on all my travels, I take all these pictures and then I come back and I'm sort of like, what can I do with this? I want to figure out a way to like integrate this into my design ethos. And so that's how sort of the brand started. Um, and you know, I could see like the next collection being more revolved around like things that I saw in Bhutan. Right, a different inspiration. A different inspiration. Um but so I like to, you know, dream of myself as sort of this like urban archaeologist. And so I started diving into like female archaeologists of the past. So there, there's this kind of like come learn with me element to the Instagram that I've been having a lot of fun with.

SPEAKER_01

And I think it's fun the museum. You're asking people what museums they like. There's some good content on there. You guys are doing a good job.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, so um that's been really fun. And then also getting into the back into Substack and just sort of like keeping it easy, like low pressure, not having to, you know, tell myself like I must have this like really lengthy piece. It's just like sort of sharing things that I saw with like a three feet thread running through it.

SPEAKER_01

Speaking of your new brand, what are some other brands on your radar? Like, if you know, you have the best taste, what are you seeing that we all need to know about? Could be in design, could be fashion.

SPEAKER_00

Because I feel like I have so many friends with small brands that are like doing cool things, and like who would I even say? Um, I will plug, coming back to the technology piece of things, and I don't know these people personally, but it's called a tin can. Do you know about that? Oh, the phones for kids. I love it. So I bought one. Okay. Um, and I feel like they are doing the work to like make landlines cool again. Okay. So if you are like me and you don't want your children on cell phones, they don't have to be like completely left out of, you know, communicating with their friends, but it's like a landline that can live in my kitchen. And another parent in our school put together a directory of all the kids with landlines so that they can feel like they can still call each other. And I also think there's like something to be said for um picking up the phone and figuring out like how to be like, can I speak to this person?

SPEAKER_01

And asking a friend how they are, having something to talk to them about.

SPEAKER_00

So it's like I don't want to forbid my children from having conversations with each other. It's just like figuring out a way to do it. And I feel like Tin Can has really honed in on that. Yeah, I think it seems like an awesome product.

SPEAKER_01

And then lastly, just to wrap up, sort of like when we think about the life of Sarah and you, and we sort of have a idea of who you are, what is sort of a life motto or piece of advice that you have?

SPEAKER_00

So I would say that this applies to creatives primarily, which I imagine is like a lot of people listening to show, like maybe it doesn't apply so much to doctors, but I think even in my most stressful moments, I try to remind myself that almost everything is figure out and that nothing is actually that urgent. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Like we're all that in my line of work. Yeah, no one's bleeding. Like we can Right.

SPEAKER_00

It's design and I'm not saving lives. So I love that. Like just take a step back. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Amazing. Well, Sarah, it's so fun to have a little peek into your brain and see where you're into. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00

Thank you for having me. This was so fun.

SPEAKER_01

We will link to everything, but we'll link Substack, Instagram, um, we'll link to where Three Fates is sold. Is there anything else the audience should know to follow you on?

unknown

I don't think so.

SPEAKER_00

I feel like that's that's a lot of platforms to follow one person on.

SPEAKER_01

So everyone has a lot of platforms these days. Thank you so much, and we will be back with another episode next week. Thanks, everyone. Thank you. That's a wrap. Do you have a noteworthy tip? Leave it in the comments below. Thanks for listening.