Mastering Tax Strategies for 2026 and Beyond - Mac McSwain

In this episode, CPA Mac McSwain shares insights on tax planning, business growth, and the importance of holistic financial strategies. He discusses recent tax law changes, the value of team collaboration, and practical tips for small business owners and individuals aiming for long-term wealth building.

Transcript

Introduction to Tax Planning and Philosophy

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Views expressed are solely those of the speakers and do not represent this show or its team.

SPEAKER_02 0:05

I think tax rates are the lowest they're ever going to be.

SPEAKER_03 0:08

For the foreseeable future, I agree with you.

SPEAKER_02 0:11

Our philosophy is that the tax return is just that's the end. If you just think of a 12, a 12-month cycle on the planning and what has to be done with that, the tax return is the end of the cycle. Right. Let's just be really serious about what's I call the giggle test, right? If you're gonna if you ever get asked by an IRS agent and they ask you a question and you answer it, are they gonna laugh at that or not? Well, I want to pass the giggle test. I don't want them laughing when that answer is that answer is given.

SPEAKER_04 0:46

Welcome back to Build to Last Conversations about wealth, work, and life. This podcast is a general conversation about building things like your business, your family, your estate, and even your legacy for what you want to leave behind. It's a general conversation where we want to have fun and we also want to introduce new guests. As a matter of fact, today I have a new guest that I'm introducing. His name is Mac McTwain. Mac is a CPA out of Charleston, South Carolina, who has some big news, news we're going to be sharing on this podcast. But Mac's been around for quite a while, and Mac has built a practice around giving advice and consulting for uh individual clients and small businesses who have different networks of income, and he's built an expertise in doing that. Mac, welcome. Thank you, Wave. It's a pleasure. Pleasure to be here. Good to see you again. Well, Mac, I appreciate it. And I want to talk about your new venture. So let's talk about first what's just changed for you and and the new organization.

SPEAKER_02 1:51

Well, I've uh merged my practice in with um y'all and uh Todd Williams and our new entity is uh Concord Business and Tax Advisors. Um it's a pretty exciting uh um entity. It is an exciting time, it's a change that I was ready to make, needed to make, and um, you know, got to meet you and everybody associated uh with Concord Wealth Partners and everything. And it's I just think it's a it's a perfect match for um my clients coming in, me, and um how um I can help your clients, their clients, and let's just help help them grow and manage and structure their personal finances and what they need to do um to best support them. I'm I'm super excited about it, and uh um I just I mean we we could do a whole podcast on that. But um right.

SPEAKER_04 2:50

Well,

Mack McSwain's Background and New Venture

SPEAKER_04 2:51

let's let's let's go back a little bit and let's talk about for those people who don't know who you are. Obviously, you know, I've had the uh the opportunity to learn a lot about you in the last six months, but tell everybody a little bit about your past and you know where you're you know, your history, your family, and things you like to do.

SPEAKER_02 3:10

Well, um let's start out past. I'll just kind of go in chronological order. I grew up in around Florence, South Carolina, um, went to the Citadel for college, graduated there in 1997. Right out of college, I went into public practice with a small uh local CPA firm here. I've been in Charleston ever since. Um met my wife here. We actually went to high school together. Um she was a couple years behind me, but we didn't officially meet to here. We've been married for 20 plus years. We got four kids, two boys, two girls. Oldest is 20, the youngest is 11 in that age group. And uh, you know, we're we're here in Charleston, we love it. Um, you know, what I like to do, it just depends where I have the time to go uh do stuff. But it's uh generally we kind of try to try to travel around when we can, but that's that's a that's a big load with six people going somewhere and whatnot. But uh a lot of it's you know, with our lifestyle where we're at, it's focused around where the kids are and what they got going on right now.

SPEAKER_04 4:19

Um Mac's got a wonderful wife. I've had the opportunity to meet her and lovely family, and you know, we're very family-oriented about what we do, and that's a little bit about what this podcast is. Tell me about some of the lessons you've learned as you've grown from remember that first time you actually met with a client as a CPA to where you are today.

SPEAKER_02 4:40

Well, I'm very thankful for in the first practice that I was in, um, one of the partners, Horace, I'm I'm so I mean, he was a perfect mentor. And you know, why we he knew there was a technical aspect to what we do in our profession, he put a lot of weight on the personal soft side skills, the empathy that's needed, how to talk to people, and he really took me and somebody else, another uh person on that team, and uh brought us in with him with meetings and showed how how to do that and helped really grow that that soft side of skill, how to have a conversation and um listen. The personal side. The personal side. You know, that's not something you learn in school, um, and that that's not a technical thing. That's got to be a learned, learned skill to do. So just through that, I mean I learned so much for him, not necessarily that's it, not the technical stuff, but the the soft skills on that, and um, you know, helping clients solve their problems and not just fitting everybody into a box.

SPEAKER_04 5:54

And

The Importance of Soft Skills in Client Relations

SPEAKER_04 5:55

uh so what are some of the common issues that you found early that you've kind of hopefully, you know, we all still make mistakes, but what are some of the things that you've seen trending in your practice to where you are today that you know you kind of you know how to, you know, you dealt with the noise, and and you know what we've learned is like you know, sometimes you still have to explain it to a client, but they really don't know that they don't want to deal with that. What are some of the things in your practice that you just do that you know you don't want to spend a whole lot of time engaging with the client that they don't know you're doing on their behalf?

SPEAKER_02 6:29

Yeah, I think it starts with when we're meeting with a client, we're not just concerned, although my focus is on tax planning, tax strategy. Um that runs a gambit of what that's just narrowing down something. So the focus really starts what their personal goals are, what their financial goals are, what their business goals are, what are they trying to achieve in their financial world, but that also brings in stuff that's going on personal-wise, whether maybe they're you know, having a kid, they're having could be having issues with a child that you know they're they're not sure what to do with. You know, it's a wide range of personal issues people have. People are people, and um, how can we bring all that in? It's almost like being a shrink, but bring all that in and to how help them achieve their goals um from a financial end to a business growth end, and you know, tax strategy, tax planning, tax saving end to help reach those goals in a holistic kind of way. It's not just focusing on I'm just doing a tax return, here's some basic tax strategies, you know, wash, wash and be none of that. It's really getting into learning who the client is and what's really going on in their their life and their world. Because some stuff might fit for one person, but they won't fit for another just because of the stage they're in, and what whether that's personal or business life.

SPEAKER_04 8:15

Yeah, no size fits all. But I think that's one of the things we felt, you know, when we were looking at, you know, we as advisors think we're you know we're all good at what we do or wouldn't be where we're at to a certain extent, but we've also learned there's you know, from an expertise standpoint, we can do basic tax planning, but when it comes to the nuts and bolts of really looking at the balance sheet for you know a company, a small business, or PL, or what I call, you know, we call it hidden profits personally. Um and and that's where we really wanted to engage with you know with when we originally bought TWP, but engage with you, bringing you on as a partner. Um tell us about that transition and why you were willing to take that next step.

Transitioning to Concord Business and Tax Advisors

SPEAKER_02 9:00

Well, I was at a position, the firm I was partner in, I was looking for growth. I wanted to grow the business. And that really the way and the how I wanted to do it, it wasn't matching up. So I I needed to do something. I wasn't quite sure what that was, but I was looking for something. And then I know Todd, Todd Williams, the partner. I've known him for years, and we were at a conference, and he we were just talking, and he brought up the initial concept of coming in, and that's where the conversation starts.

SPEAKER_04 9:36

Let's talk about that for a second. Like I don't want to glaze over that because we all I think a lot of people don't know, we all have coaches, right? Yeah, and so you you and you and Todd are actually working with the same coach using part of the I call it, we all call it, the entrepreneurial operating system, and growing, you know, each how each individual uh type of industry can use that system from S P 500 to little companies like ours, right? So um you guys met and so your vision about how to operate a business was very similar, right? Is that is that what I heard?

SPEAKER_02 10:12

Yeah, very entrepreneurial-minded.

SPEAKER_04 10:14

Right. So so your growth where you were sitting before, your growth goals weren't necessarily maybe aligned with your other partners, and you you felt like you wanted to maybe make a change to somebody in that operating system. Is that fair to say?

SPEAKER_02 10:31

That's fair to say, and I did not want to do it by myself. I want I needed yeah, and not in a bad way, but you know, I you know, I you know, like you, you know, grew up playing sports. I love being part of a team. I like being part of a team. And you know, I I wanted to be part of you know, grow something together in a team format, everybody working together towards a common, a common goal.

SPEAKER_04 10:53

Absolutely. But what was the attraction to Concord? I mean, we really you and I have really never had that discussion. So maybe I don't want to hear the answer to that. I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 11:02

Well no, you do, and you you you did, you touched on it when you were, you know, after you asked for my personal, you know, share my personal story. You know, of course I knew Todd for a while, and you know, I told him, you know, after you know, we talked and we were like, I guess he ran things by you, and we're like, yeah, let's let's care have this conversation going forward. And I said, well, you know, the next phase is you know, Angela and I need to come up, meet you, Sheila, um, you know, Justin and John. Let's get Todd and his wife Misty and everything down. I mean, because we're I'm very family-oriented as well. And it was important to me that we do this, you're joining another family. Well, that means your spouse and everything, and I wanted everybody to meet, and let's make sure everybody's on the same page. And when we were talking, you know, we shared a lot of the same values, culture, family-oriented. You know, we I think we all have the right perspective on life

Tax Strategies for 2026 and Beyond

SPEAKER_02 11:57

from a personal standpoint. I think we have the right uh perspective on how we want to serve our clients. So there was not going to be a change in that perception between how I serve clients and what I do personally coming in with y'all. And so that that that was a huge question. And I could ask you questions, you could ask me, and we could answer them back and forth, and they sound right. But until you're actually out to dinner, out socially with people, you see how people interact in a um non-work environment, you don't really know that that's how it is. And um I agree.

SPEAKER_03 12:34

I agree.

SPEAKER_02 12:35

It, you know, we left, and I'm gonna tell Angela's like, you're doing it. Not and not that I wasn't, but honestly, but honestly, she had veto power. I mean, she had veto powers. If she if she didn't feel comfortable, then it wasn't happening. I'm like, what do you think?

SPEAKER_04 12:48

And she's like, And obviously we all felt the same way.

SPEAKER_02 12:50

Yeah, and she's like, these are the right people.

SPEAKER_04 12:53

Okay, so we we we agree, you know, we've got obviously we've got a lot of work to do, as you know, and um we have a new tax season coming up. So let's talk about this year or 2025, rolling in 2026. I it was refreshing to us for 2025 because you finally had tax laws in place. I mean, you can go back the last five years and had not you know, tax planning was uh, you know, throwing darts at a board for to some at to some parts of it when you're not you didn't know where you were actually gonna be. You didn't know what was going to change in January. You know, this was a little bit refreshing. So we both got to experience that. What what do you see with some of the changes and move forward? A lot of cool stuff. Talk about that for 2026.

SPEAKER_02 13:37

Well, 2026 really when it comes to the tax strategies looking at, I mean, it's it's just a change in maybe numbers and thresholds like retirement contribution limits and stuff like that. What where a lot of clarity came through in the tax bill was just it made a lot of stuff permanent versus it was going to expire. The expiration dates what kind of was scaring everybody. Absolutely. Yeah, it was made permanent, but it's only as permanent until there's you know a new president and new Congress to make tax changes. Okay. But you can only work with the information you have now. You can't tax plan on what might be. You can only tax plan on the information that is currently written into the law. So it really just made some stuff that a lot of tax advantage stuff that was going to expire, like rates and stuff, it made them permanent, which just makes things easier to plan for. That was to me, that was the biggest change in it, the permanency of some of the stuff.

SPEAKER_04 14:41

I I would agree. I think you know, some of the things we're seeing in some of the industries, like you know, it's becoming a big deal for some of our joint family, you know, the that have that might be in the restaurant business, you know, they're getting they're in the government or overtime and you know, taxing on tips, things of that nature. You know, we're seeing, we're seeing that and and planning for that is really putting a new spin. Talk a little bit about that.

Understanding Tax Changes and Their Implications

SPEAKER_02 15:08

Well, you so you're talking about the you know, tax-free overtime or tip pay. I mean, there's there's thresholds and rules within that, so it's not not everything's a quick, simple answer. It affects everybody because it can depend the type of job that's being done. But yeah, I mean it it has the opportunity to have some large tax savings for people that um work overtime and obviously tips in the um restaurant industry, you know, but like everything, everything's a trade-off. You know, there's no and the trade-off is hey, that might be great for the employee in on their tax situation. The flip side is the complexity in reporting that through the payroll systems and whatnot. You know, so it's like, you know, there's not there's very few, there's very few win-wins and and changes. It's really just uh any decision is a trade-off on what you want to do, which ties back to my trading off tax savings now for potentially tax savings later. How does this decision you know affect that that scale? And where do you as a client um want feel comfortable with that scale scale being, and then we can help advise further, you know, depending on where that scale lays.

SPEAKER_04 16:26

And it in the like in this situation, it depends on the side of the fence you're on. It's kind of weird, but the business owner is a client, yeah. And the client that works for the business owner, right, and you're sitting there going, this is probably gonna work pretty good over here, but they're you know, like you said, you're hitting thresholds, and it's like, man, we really gotta we gotta make sure we're on top of these changes on the business planning side. So talk about why you need to really start getting in front of this stuff right now.

SPEAKER_02 16:56

Yeah. Um, well, first I want to back up on that and say, so people think your taxes, you gotta do a tax return. Well, you know, our philosophy is that the tax return is just that's the end. If you if you just think of a 12, a 12-month cycle on the planning and what has to be done with that. The tax return is the end of the cycle. That's just an input of data from all the planning that has been done from the start of that 12-month cycle. So you don't not starting out with preparing a tax return. It's like, how can we take everything that's going on? Personal side, business side, financially, income, assets, rental stuff, K1's coming in, you know, what you want to do with kids, whether you know, college, you're coming up in retirement, everything that goes on in people's lives. So, you know, that that's just a few things that can go on. And how do we take

The Role of Personal Goals in Tax Planning

SPEAKER_02 17:54

that and we say, okay, if this is what we want to achieve as the goal, then what do we need to implement as tax strategies to do this? I mean, we have some core strategies, of course, but that doesn't mean that those are right for a particular client. We just kind of start with we think we might be here, but only through conversations and us asking questions and then us listening and asking more questions and listening more and then compiling all that data and really structuring a plan that fits everything to happen in those those questions and that conversation, that listening. Are we able to structure something that helps them meet what they want to do and what fits what they want to do, not necessarily what we want to do? At the end of the day, it's the client's decision. It's our job to present these are the opportunities, these are the pluses and minuses of each situation. If you want my opinion, I can give the opinion which way I'd go, but at the end of the day, if your decision, it's our responsibility to educate, present the facts, advise on the decision if asked, and then the client makes a decision on that, and then we implement that stuff based on their needs and their wants.

SPEAKER_04 19:17

Yeah, one of the you know, we could the business process we you know, cultures and every business, that's one of the things that attracted your process is almost identical to what we're what we've been integrating for the past many, many years. We have you know, and and the great thing about that is like we were talking about is a you know I'd like to step away. Tax planning is you know big picture, and the the obvious f win for us is being able to go, okay, let's define the spectrum and let's narrow this down. And then you got and I'm gonna use an example here that you know, um, you know, I feel like I'm pretty good when it comes to tax planning. I'm not a CPA. When it gets really technical, obviously, you know, and and we put on that disclosure, I'm not a CPA, so let's talk the back, right? But you know, you have to go over numbers throughout the year, but you know, even me being a a business owner, multiple business owner, and owning properties and stuff, you know, you helped me on uh rental pro or not rental property on a second home. I was not aware of of the law that you helped me, you know, um that was a big tax savings for me. And you know, that it just came comes home even more no matter. You know, we get we get stuck in the thinking, you know, we have designations. You're a CPA, I'm a CFP. You know, that designation of CPA means so much more when it starts getting into the the really the refinements of how that isolates down, right? So the communication like you're talking about is a big, big deal. I and I think you know what I heard in that conversation was it's ongoing and it doesn't happen in December. So looking ahead, what concerns you most about you know where we are today with taxes and where we might be heading moving forward and the whole tax planning spectrum.

Future of Tax Rates and Planning Strategies

SPEAKER_02 21:09

How far out do you mean to go with this answer?

SPEAKER_04 21:12

Well, I mean, are we ever gonna be done with filing taxes?

SPEAKER_02 21:16

I mean, I don't know. Well, I would love, look, I would love the tax, I would love for laws to change to uh change me out of a job, right? Nobody likes dealing with taxes, but that's just unfortunately, that's just not gonna be the case. Right. You know, my big concern is, and this is, you know, this is much longer term, you know, not necessarily three to four years, but I think we're seeing um look, let me let me put it this way. I think we're at the I think tax rates are the lowest they're ever gonna be right now.

SPEAKER_03 21:49

With the foreseeable future, I agree with you. And I I totally agree.

SPEAKER_02 21:53

Yeah, I I don't know how they I don't think they go any lower. So with that being said. With the national debt, everything that's out there, I just don't know how in the future that tax rates don't go up to fund governments government expenses. I just don't see how those numbers don't work. I mean, you're already seeing, and and all that takes is get get back to a new president and a new Congress, and these permanent tax laws that came into effect with the OBBA, they go away with the new Congress and whatnot to something new. You're kind of already seeing that in Virginia with the new governor and new legislature there, and then wanting to increase taxes.

SPEAKER_04 22:37

We're seeing a bunch of changes there, I can tell you. I'm not overly thrilled with it.

SPEAKER_02 22:42

So I'm not trying to, yeah, and I'm not trying I'm just talking and I'm not trying to get political anyway. I'm just like, look, yeah, it's an economic decision at some point on that. So I it's almost like you need in the tax planning, and where I see you going forward is there needs to be a heavier emphasis on maybe you don't save tax dollars now because you structure something that's going to be tax free in the future between Roth retirement accounts or something else. So instead of focusing on the tax, usually, you know, you want to take all the savings now in the year that you have. But I think the discussion's got to start turning more heavily into, and we do this anyway, but a lot more focus on maybe we need to accept paying at the tax rates now to save at higher tax rates later. Is kind of where I think the the strategy conversations need to take.

Roth vs. Traditional Accounts

SPEAKER_04 23:47

Absolutely. It's refreshing. I gotta tell you, man, it's you know, and that's one of the things that attracts it was refreshing to hear a CPA say that because the majority of them aren't saying that. They're still of the world of def we know you know it's the devil you know, because they don't a lot of what I think that's the difference between forward looking and looking at what accounting practices used to be in the past, right? And it's the devil we know today, and that is if you defer this income, right? If you put more money in and that sort of stuff, and then you're not taking into account does that client, is he gonna get inheritance, he or she? Are they gonna have what are their wages gonna be, you know, in 15 years? And and again, I agree with you until we get some sort of accountability for government spending, I don't see taxes ever coming down. I don't know if we can agree or disagree on that, but there just seems to be no accountability on I need money and this is where it's gonna go. And you know, uh just I I think at some point hopefully that will happen. But the the debt that we're at today and the debt that it's gonna take to pay off, right, from taxpayers, that's where it's gonna come from. Yeah, yeah, I I agree with you. It's refreshing to see that. So um the next thing, you know, is when you when you have that conversation, you know, and obviously, you know, one of my favorite, two favorite accounts in the world are the Roth IRA, what obviously that unfortunately that depending on where you are, how effective that is when you're accumulating money, um, and the 529, right? So um those to me are two of the best accounts that we've been ever, you know, that we've been given um over the past 20-some years. That but talk to me a little bit about if if someone is in a 401k, like what you're just saying, it's hard for us sometimes to get a client to think like that and get, you know, you could defer this, but let's consider doing a Roth. Well, I want you you to explain the advantages of Roth versus deferred based on what we just touched on.

SPEAKER_02 25:55

Well, you're just basically saying I'm gonna pay tax on earnings now, and then I'm gonna take that money, put it into an investment, and then it's gonna grow tax-free, so it's a larger bucket than it was when you started, and when you take that money out, you're not paying tax on it. So you pay tax on a little your base, and I'm just gonna make it make up numbers here. So maybe that's five thousand dollars you decided to do this year. You're gonna pay tax on five thousand, but if you project that five thousand turns into fifty thousand, depending on whatever time frame rate of return, well, it's much better to pay tax on five thousand than on fifty thousand. Where we would come in with you, and you know, on the financial advisory side, is y'all run, you know, y'all can project those rates of returns,

Business Planning for Small Business Owners

SPEAKER_02 26:50

y'all can project that growth, and then we can come back in and work and factor how that works out tax-wise. So that that's that's why this with the financial advisor side, the wealth planning side, the tax advisory side, it starts to work real well together in one organization because there's the going back and forth is almost seamless in that in that planning for the client. So, you know, getting back to what I was looking for when the this wealth management was um part of stuff that clients would have access to. That was very attractive to me for my clients.

SPEAKER_04 27:39

It goes back to what you said though, educating, right? You gotta educate and have the data so they can make an informed decision, right? Exactly. Yeah. And that I think that's not the symbiotic part of us.

SPEAKER_02 27:51

Yeah, and I know where my expertise ends. It's not on the financial planning. Just like you know, you said you knew y'all know where your expertise ends, you know, when it gets deeper into tax stuff, needs to just we've got to hop the fence.

SPEAKER_04 28:04

Yep, absolutely. So moving into the business world, because you you and I both work a lot with small business owners, talk about some things they should be doing today, you know, and in preparation for 2026. You know, what what are some key things that they maybe need to get into a rhythm of doing?

SPEAKER_02 28:23

Well, one is definitely this is S-Corp specific. So if you're an S-Corp owner, I really think you need to rethink about your compensation level. And what I mean by that is how you're compensated. What is the IRS says as an S-Corp owner, you need to pay yourself a reasonable comp compensation. Okay, that is a very gray area. There's nowhere in the IRS.

SPEAKER_04 28:49

Yeah, so you so this is where I say define reasonable? No, I'm just kidding. Go ahead. Yeah, yeah. No, what you can't.

SPEAKER_02 28:55

Well, I'm I'm kind of well, that would be some secret sauce if you wanted to for uh to work on defining the reasonable, reasonable way. And it's it's very in-depth to get into on this, but high level, it's yes, we we can help it it can be determined so that you can allocate wages from distribution. And when you can, and I'm gonna make up numbers here. This is not anywhere advice or do this, okay? But you know, if your your W-2 wage is uh $100,000, and we can say no, for your job, it should only be $60,000, then we take $40,000 out as reasonable as distribution. Without $40,000, you're you could save 15% on it because you're not paying self-employment tax on. I mean, that's a huge, that's a huge tax saving number. So I would say number one,

Practical Takeaways for Tax Savings

SPEAKER_02 29:51

figure out, talk to current CPA, whatnot, and really nail not and that could be a moving target during the year, which is what we do. We we help our clients look at it on a quarterly basis, adjust that number up and down based on their income they got coming out. So they're maximizing their savings on that. But have you allocated a reasonable wage versus distribution in a way that makes sense is the big one. And then I would say number two, in your business documents, you know, your operating agreement, you know, you uh your family's involved in your business. If you have, if you if you have a family, believe it or not, they might not be on the payroll, whatnot, but they're involved in the business because you're involved in their life, they're involved in your life, you've got kids seeing you working, you building something, and they might not say they know it, they know it. They're involved and they're learning something. So I would, you know, your your spouse and your kids, if they're on your board of advisors, you know, in your on your operating agreement. This is a document. I'm not a lawyer, you're not a lawyer. Check with your attorney, but you know, get them into your operating agreement, and you know, you're having some of these vacations, these uh you, you, you're you you need to have a board meeting, right? And your kids need to be involved, your family needs to be involved in these decisions, and let's start part of this tax planning is how can we convert some personal stuff into business stuff that's a write-off, and you get the the benefit of it. But it and it all comes down to documentation and proving it, not just go willy-nilly in this. And that's part of what we do as well. We like lay down, okay. Here's the documentation you need, let's make sure we're doing this, you know, and get involved. So, you know, you can you can write off if you're going, you know, I'm gonna use us as an example. You know, they're in, you know, we go to we want to go to vacation at the beach, that travel up, day of travel up, that day of travel back, because you got to do that whether you got a one-day board meeting or a 10 or you're gone for 10 days. That that that that's a business expense, you know, and at least you can have a board meeting for one day, and that one day of being there can be a board expense. Now, can you justify all five days for one business meeting? You know, you'd probably be stretching it, right? Let's just be really serious about what's I call it a giggle test, right? If you're gonna if you ever get asked by an IR IRS agent and they ask you a question and you answer it, are they gonna laugh at that or not? Well, I want to pass the giggle test. I don't want them laughing when that answer's that answer is given on that. Yeah, but it's just think about how we can get you got the wage and how that we can start struct structuring stuff correctly to reduce your business taxes that you can use to flow through to you personally on stuff you're kind of already doing anyway.

SPEAKER_04 33:04

Um

Building Long-Term Client Relationships

SPEAKER_04 33:05

absolutely I want to go back to something you just said because I think it's important, you know. I don't want people to interpret that the wrong way. I think it's important that you try to get your kids involved, right? That they are on the board, that they are actively to you're teaching them knowing about the business, and then you may get their interest, you may not, right? I'm fortunate. I get to work with both of my kids, you know, Justin's a partner. Um, and he'll tell everybody that that he had to buy equity. Dad didn't give him anything, right? He'll I think I think his loan finishes off this year. I'm not sure this year or next year, but you know, I don't I think that, you know, fortunately for me, I I get to work with all my family. Um the point is that that helps the involvement helps with the education. The education helps with you can't just be a business, you gotta run like a business, you can't just act like a business, you have to have the documentation like you're calling the giggle test. I call it a stress test. It is if you're sitting across from a from a somebody from the IRS, can you provide the documentation of what you say is factually true? Yep. Yep. So that I I agree with that. I agree a hundred percent. And I I gotta say, if my travel days with them in the older days had been thought about it like that, they might have been a lot less stressful as we're going to the beach, you know. So been a more organized chaos. So okay. Uh got another question for you. And you know, we're kind of running along on time. And I got first one is you know, everybody listens to this podcast, I want to give them one or two practical takeaways. So if you've got one or two, what are some practical takeaways that someone could put into to immediate practice this year based on what you know?

SPEAKER_02 34:54

Uh well, I'm gonna go back to that answer um that you said before about looking at your compensation reasonable comp as an escorp owner. That that that is a number one thing that we want to drill on for S Corp owners on that.

SPEAKER_03 35:08

I agree.

SPEAKER_02 35:09

Um and the other, I mean I'm just gonna go back to that answer before. Those are some very basic things, and they could have have a high impact on tax savings. And you know, it just it feels good when you see that. You can see immediate benefits from those those two things right there.

SPEAKER_04 35:30

I I agree with you. And Mike, I want to I'm gonna ask you, this is kind of an open-ended question, but if what is the perfect relationship when someone new walks into your office and you know that prospect, that referral? What's the perfect relationship? What what would it look like that that if you're sitting down with that client who becomes a client in 10 years, what's evolved so that you know now they're they're not just a client, they're family, they're part of your practice. What's that look like for you?

SPEAKER_02 36:04

Um that's a great question, Wade. I I think when I framing that question and thinking about the thinking about the clients that I've had the longest, um it's not just when we talk and we meet those conversations are not transactional. Right. Um they have grown into um very it is is like talking to a really good friend, and you know, because over the years, you know, they've whether they've met my kids, I've met their kids, they we at least hear stories. You know, same thing with spouses or significant others. We at least hear stories. So, you know, we know their growth on a personal level, they know our growth as a personal level, and it's just the conversation is more of a catching up than an actual business transaction. Now, obviously, discussion focuses on how we can serve them, but it's just a natural great to see you. It's not a oh my gosh, I got a meeting with so-and-so. It's like, all right, let's see what's let's catch up. You know, so it's okay, it's a cat. I've never used it, I've never thought about it in that way before, but I really like it's just a it's a it's a catch-up meeting, like, you know, if my buddy called me right now to check in, just to catch up to see what's going. I mean, that's what we want to achieve at the end of the day. And I we don't want them to think about uh I gotta go have this phone call. It's like, no, I'm I want to talk to Wade, I want to talk to Justin, Mac, Todd, whoever. You know, this is not, I don't dread, I'm not struggling to find a time on my calendar to schedule this meeting.

SPEAKER_04 38:04

Mac, that was a great description on the perfect client relationship, and it's very similar to what we look for in our clients when we bring them on board. And I got to tell you, I'm really looking forward to our relationship and a fruitful partnership over the next 20 plus years.

SPEAKER_02 38:19

Wait, I appreciate it. It's always great to see you, and um I'm elated over what we can do for our clients and what's going to happen going into the future.

SPEAKER_04 38:29

Thank you very much, because we are as well. And I want to thank everybody else out there for listening to our podcast, Built to Last. Thanks for spending time with us today on Built to Last. If today's conversation helped bring clarity to your thinking around wealth, work, or life. That's exactly why we do this. Till next time, stay focused on building something that truly lasts.

SPEAKER_00 38:53

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