Built To Last - Conversations on Wealth, Work & Life
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Built To Last - Conversations on Wealth, Work & Life
Building a Durable Business: Strategies for Long-Term Success
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This episode features Todd Williams, president of Concord Business and Tax Advisors, discussing how business owners can treat their businesses as assets, make strategic decisions, and plan for long-term success. Topics include business valuation, risk management, debt strategies, tax planning, and building durable businesses.
Introduction and episode overview
AnnouncerViews expressed are solely those of the speakers and do not represent this show or its team.
SPEAKER_01It's never too soon to start getting out of the business, getting that dependency removed. Yeah. To start looking at ways that you can do that. Ask yourself, what are things that I could I could get someone else to do and withdraw yourself from that part of the business? Yeah, like that.
Wade LopezWelcome to Build to Last, conversations on wealth, work, and life, where we focus on building businesses, wealth, and legacies that last. I'm Wade Lopez. I've spent three decades helping entrepreneurs, business owners, and families navigating how to build and how ultimately to transition what they've created. Today's conversation is going to be about business owners and what they should actually be thinking about with their own business. And making those decisions that might feel right in the moment, but ultimately could limit their value, their cash flow, and even their long-term outcome. So we're going to talk about why it matters because most owners and their businesses are their largest assets. Yet oftentimes they're not strategically managed. So
Why most business owners overlook their business as a strategic asset
Wade LopezI have with me today Todd Williams. Welcome, Todd. Todd is the president of Concord Business and Tax Advisors, and he works directly with business owners on strategy, tax planning, valuation. And we're going to talk about why these decisions and how they show up in the real world. So, Todd, let's start here. What does it actually mean to treat your business like an asset rather than just something that you own?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think that's a good starting point for that conversation because most people who are business owners, you know, they may look at an investment portfolio when they're working with their investment advisor and they're paying attention to what the rate of returns are that they're receiving from those investments. They're worried about the risk that they're exposed to. They'll sit down and talk with an investment advisor about how much risk they're willing to take on or shift away. But
The importance of viewing your business like an investment
SPEAKER_01then they go into their business, and although it is probably the biggest asset in their portfolio, they don't look at it the same way. They're not looking at it based on what's the rate of return that I'm getting, um, how much risk am I exposing myself to, where could I take risk off the table? They're looking at it more like almost like just a paycheck, a job. You know, they're going in every day and working, and that's how they're uh managing the business. Why do you think business owners do that though? Aaron Powell Well, I I I think it becomes a matter of, you know, unfortunately, most of them are doing this where they're they're living it like a paycheck. And I think it's because, you know, it reminds me of that old Dunkin' Donuts commercial where the guy's getting up out of bed at 4 a.m. I go make the donuts, right? So they're they're just showing up to make the widgets or the donuts every day, and they're grinding through the day and they're making sure the bills are getting paid, the employees are getting, you know, their paychecks,
How emotion influences business decisions and owner dependency
SPEAKER_01and then whatever's left at the at the end of the day is what they're taking home as their paycheck. Right. And they're kind of just seeing it as that job, grinding through the day every day, and they're not taking the time to step away from the job, kind of get out of working in the business and work on the business and see it as the investment that it is and and make decisions that impact the growth of the company versus just getting the job done every day, getting those doughnuts made every day.
Wade LopezBut don't you think a lot of that has to do with emotion versus a real aptitude inside the business?
SPEAKER_01Oh, absolutely. Emotion drives the decisions a lot by business owners. Um, you know, this becomes their legacy. Um, and they're they're working hard every day to provide for their family, make sure the bills are paid, make sure they have money in their bank account to pay their bills, and that emotional stress of just making sure that's done every day uh influences them.
Wade LopezTrevor Burrus, Jr. With that emotion, explain why, in your opinion it's hard. And I think most all in businesses that we first work with, even together, the first discussion is putting capital back into their business. Explain why that's important.
The significance of reinvesting profits for growth
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So you know, putting capital back, I could see it as an example of, you know, let's just assume someone's paying themselves a reasonable salary to begin with. That's a topic we could discuss later. But at the end of the day, after they paid themselves a salary, they get to the end of the year and they they've made a profit, two or three hundred thousand dollars. Yep. And we what we're seeing from business owners, they just draw that money out. They leave enough in to pay the bills for the next month or two, and they're drawing the rest out, seeing that as, well, I made this much money. And they're not thinking about if I were to reinvest this back in as capital, where could I, where could I grow? Where could I, where's my best rate of return? Is it better to draw it out? And, you know, it might be. We are taking risk off the table, you're taking that money and you're putting it in some other investment, but they're not really going through the process of thinking about that and looking at I could also buy new equipment or I could, you know, uh expand my workforce and grow my capacity and what's the rate of returns I would have there if I would make those decisions instead.
Wade LopezSo let's talk about something I think most owners misunderstand. You know, we run across people that think they're ready to sell their business, right? And they think it's ready. They think it's time. Let's talk a little bit about why most business owners think they're ready to sell, but they're not really ready to sell.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
Common misconceptions about business valuation and readiness to sell
SPEAKER_01Well, I think the number one number one reason is they misunderstand the value of the business. Right. Um, and so they miss that. And so they think their business is worth a certain amount and they're ready to exit and sell. And what they find out uh is that that's not the true value. Aaron Powell Why do they overvalue their business? So most of the time it's that that emotional thing that you just mentioned a few minutes ago. Yeah, business owners tend to put a lot of emotion into the value of their business. You know, they've worked long hours, they you know, they have the whole life history of the the times they couldn't cover payroll and they had to stretch it and do do whatever. And this has become their legacy. And so when they start thinking about what the company's worth, they're thinking at it from their emotional standpoint. They're not thinking at it from the practical standpoint. Trevor Burrus, Jr.
Wade LopezWe use the term it's it's it's our baby, right? It's a and and we we don't say that lightly. And and we understand when other other business owners say that. But but the one problem I have communicating with a lot of them is, you know, is they don't really understand what buyers are looking for sometimes. So let's talk a bit like from a buyer's perspective. And on the other side of the table, what are buyers looking for from a business when they walk in?
What buyers look for in a business: transferable cash flow
Wade LopezYeah.
SPEAKER_01So I mean, really, you could boil it down to one thing. They're looking for transferable cash flow. Right. They want cash flow that is going to transfer over under new ownership. Um, and in order to do that, they know, well, number one, they're just gonna look at the financials and is it cash flowing? And then they're gonna take deeper dives into that. In is this do they have processes in place, do they have systems in place? How much is the business relying on the owner to produce that cash flow? Because the more the owner is involved producing the cash flow, the greater risk to the buyer. Yeah. Because maybe those skills don't transfer over, maybe those abilities don't transfer over. And so then cash flow doesn't transfer.
Wade LopezThere's another hidden risk. Let's talk about dependency on the owner with the business, right? So let's or let's talk about why it's it's best to build a business maybe that's not so dependent on an owner. Would you touch on that?
SPEAKER_01Right. So, I mean, that really gets into, you know, I'm sure we've people have heard of intangible value and intangible assets. And those are the things you can't touch or feel. You know, when we're looking at buying a business, you can go in and you can see the the equipment that they have and the manufacturing line, or or you can look at uh the goods that are being shipped out. But what you can't see is, you know, what is the processes that make all of that happen? Are those documented? Is everyone following them, or is it all in the owner's head?
Building owner-independent systems and processes
SPEAKER_01And he just he knows how they estimate that price, but no one else knows how they estimated that price. And when you start building around owner dependencies, it that's very hard to transfer. You can't transfer that to the next person in a smooth transition. You want to be able to transfer your business and and not miss a beat. Um, and the new owners just come in and they're able to do it. And when everything's dependent on you, when you're the owner and you're producing the the hours of work or the uh knowledge of how something's done and you're not sharing that or creating a system, then it's very hard to transfer.
Wade LopezIt is, and it's you know, that's sometimes when that discussion happens, we tend to hurt people's feelings because it's frank, right? And then that emotion is there with them. Um, but I think it also says the fact that um, you know, when people understand that a business is only worth what someone else can operate with it when they're not there, I think their eyes kind of open to what we're talking about, right? And we see that like I've never I've never heard that before, I've never looked at it. And we talk about, you know, we use EOS, the entrepreneurial operating system, and that a lot of that has to deal with having written procedures and operations so that if a piece is missing, someone knows where to go. And I think that's a big piece of what that talks about off. You know, that's right. But let's transition into where do you see business owners misusing debt the most
Proper use of debt for growth versus short-term fixes
Wade Lopezthat can be critical in a business.
SPEAKER_01Um and where we see it most of the time that they're misusing it, it's kind of it's kind of two prongs because it's using it for the wrong things or structured incorrectly. Right. And so using it for the wrong things would be, you know, things like using debt to cover payroll, using debt to cover catch you up on your on your vendor bills because you got behind. Um that's not really solving a problem, it's just pushing it down the road. And so that's a problem that we see where it's a very important thing. It's not a strategy. It's not a strategy. It's just uh it's a it's a short-term fix to a to a problem that exists within the business. And until you address the problem, it's going to keep surfacing. Now you just have debt that you're paying back that you're it's just adding to the cash flow strain. Um and the other side of that is the wrong structure gets into uh you're using a short-term line of credit uh vehicle to buy equipment that should be a long-term debt service. Yeah. Um, and so now you're you're tying up your short-term capital with a long-term investment.
Wade LopezSo Yeah, let's let's talk more about what's smart, you know, using it smart credit,
Smart debt strategies for expansion and acquisition
Wade Lopezwhat does that look like?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So I mean, debt can can be one of the fastest ways to grow your business if you if you approach it correctly. And some of the the things would be examples of like if you're going to acquire another business to fold into yours that already has a cash flow, um, that's already going to be able to cover that debt service plus add cash flow to your business. Or you're gonna buy a piece of equipment that's gonna add capacity to you or um be able to take on jobs that you weren't able to do before. So that's adding cash flow and revenue. Right. Um, maybe you're gonna hire a new salesperson and they're gonna go out and generate three times, four times their their cost and new sales. All of those are good uses of debt. Yep. Um, where the the debt's the vehicle to be able to do those things. You might not have had the cash flow to just go out and do it on your own. So it gives you the vehicle to do it and you've planned for it, you know what the return's gonna be, and you made a wise decision to make that uh execution. Discipline. Discipline.
Wade LopezAnd using it as a tool, but also staying online with what your vision and your goal is, right? So that's the important factor too. So where do you think a lot of people leave money on the table when it comes to their we used to call it hidden assets, right? Right. But where do you think business owners are leaving money on the table
Hidden assets and opportunities through planning
Wade Lopezright now?
SPEAKER_01I mean, I think that they end up leaving money on the table just by lack of planning.
Wade LopezYeah.
SPEAKER_01Because they're not because they're not having the forethought to put in planning, they make decisions that end up either costing them money or they lose opportunities where they could have grown or had uh additional funds coming in.
Wade LopezYeah. And so I think that's the and part of that planning too, I think it uh not completing the whole planning with a purpose ends up with uh business owner just eating more taxes than they should. So touch on that. I know you don't I know that's what you do, but let's talk a little bit about that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, absolutely. I mean ta tax is definitely a dangerous area that that you can you can cost yourself more than you need to. You know, you you always hear the saying of the two things that are certain are death and taxes, which that may be true, but how much in taxes you have control over. Um and if you plan correctly and you treat taxes as an ongoing part of your business and you meet with your advisors on a regular basis to make good decisions, then you can really reduce the amount of tax. I mean, we want everyone to pay tax because that means you made money.
unknownRight.
SPEAKER_01And we are encouraging all of our business owners to make money because that's going to drive your value. But let's mitigate the tax by planning and having it as part of your business planning that you're thinking ahead, not waiting to the last minute. A lot, you know, too many people show up at the end of the year. Yeah. And it's like, here's my tax stuff.
Wade LopezWell, we call that reactive. Let's talk
Proactive tax planning and year-end strategies
Wade Lopezabout the proactive stuff. Let's be proactive, right?
SPEAKER_01Not wait till the end because it's the decisions made for you. Yeah. And also don't do things just for taxes. We see that mistake a lot where people buy, I'm gonna buy equipment on December 30th because I don't want to pay a tax bill, and they didn't need the equipment, they didn't put any thought on the rate of return. Now they borrowed money, and later they're gonna have that phantom income where they're paying back that debt and it's not an expense anymore, and they're gonna be paying tax on it. And so there's no planning in any of those those things. Um, and I think that's a that's a big risk for businesses.
Wade LopezSpeaking of planning, though, and we had we had this conversation earlier today with a mutual client. There's a lot of people out there that just April 15th, my tax has got to be filed. But explain why when you're a business owner, you have these extensions that are allowable and what that gives, how what the opportunity is for us working with them, you know, uh as as part of being on their team when it comes to things like profit sharing stuff, and why it's so important to yeah, we understand you want to file on time, but if you want the most effective tax planning strategy, you might need to kick that can down the road a little bit so that we have a greater. So just talk a little bit more about that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So I think that's uh uh the you just mentioned profit sharing. That's a great example to use because you we close out the year and we're doing the tax return, and you have a decision where you do have the opportunity to to contribute to a profit sharing. And it's one of the one of the unique items that you can deduct. One of many. One of many that you can deduct uh uh in the new year for on last year's tax return. Right. Right. And so we can wait and see and do the calculations like this is how much it's gonna save you. And if we're doing it on March 15th, we might tell the business owner, hey, you can make a $60,000 profit sharing contribution and we'll save you $20,000 in taxes. Right. But there's still $60,000 that has to be paid into the profit sharing, and there's still a tax bill. The check needs to be written. Right. The check needs to be written and there's still a tax bill, even though it's $20,000 in the building. Yeah, but yeah, so exactly. And so what an extension does is it gives you time to pay it because under that particular provision, the profit sharing has to be done before you file your tax return, including extension. So now we extend that return of September. Doesn't change any of the tax consequences, but it just bought you six months to fund that profit sharing contribution. Uh, and that's important to business owners. If you're yeah, you know, pay yourself first.
Wade LopezDon't leave a tip on the table. Exactly. All right, it's hard for a lot of people who just, you know, a lot of business owners want to knock it out, right? Deadline here. And it's just sometimes you just there's a lot of thought because profit share is just one of many options. You know, there's qualified and you know, things that can be and still non-qualified things that can be done for business owners, you know. So how do you see structure and timing impacting outcomes for small business owners?
SPEAKER_01Well,
Impact of business structure and timing on tax outcomes
SPEAKER_01structure and timing are huge uh to a small business owner. You know, structure you're getting into what type of business you are, what type of entity.
Wade LopezYou want to touch on some of those changes just in the past year, too? Yeah.
SPEAKER_01I mean, so you entity options would be you could be a C what's called a C corporation, you could be a S corporation, which is a pass-through entity, you could be a partnership, which is uh another pass-through entity. C corporations pay their own tax, it's like its own person and it has its own tax, and that tax rate has been reduced uh to 21%. The problem with that is when you take money out of that form, you have to pay tax again. And so that's where you've probably heard of the double taxation piece, and that's where it comes from. Well, on the pass-through entity side, the tax, the entity, the company doesn't pay tax, you do as an individual. And so that's gonna pass all the income passes through to you and you pay tax. Um with some of the tax changes, they introduce the 20% deduction where you get 20% off of the pass-through entity income as a uh kind of what I would call phantom deduction. You don't spend any money. It's one of the rare deductions that you don't have to spend money to deduct something. Um you just get 20% off of that income. And so just deciding between that, well, am I gonna be a pass-through entity or a C corporation, or am I gonna be a sole proprietor? And a sole proprietor has to pay what's called self-employment tax. So they've they've got an extra tax layer automatically. So just that structure matters and just what the tax rates are gonna be, what deductions are available to you, yeah, all of those things.
Wade LopezUm, we had uh Mac McSwain on here a couple uh months ago or month time flies, could have been yesterday, I don't remember. Anyway, um Mac made a bold statement, and I I I I personally agree with it, but he said that he believes that we're gonna be in the lowest tax bracket that we're probably gonna be in during our lifetime if we have any just continuing average income of what we're doing. Do you agree
Current tax environment and future considerations
Wade Lopezwith that?
SPEAKER_01I do. I do agree with that.
Wade LopezIt changes a lot of strategies, right? We used growing up, you know, 20 years ago we used to say defer, defer, defer, right? Right. And I see that transition changing a little bit when we talk about things. Touch on that uh as plan aspect.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so like you mentioned, the deferring of income used to be a big strategy, which was the thought was anything we can do to push income down the road um to a time where we believe tax rates might be lower would be a better benefit. Um, and with the current situation with that we all believe Mac and I both would agree that we're probably at that lowest rate now. So we're gonna see tax rates increasing over the few in the future years. So you really got to weigh that. Like it is deferring the income today really the best decision because sometimes it's better to go ahead and uh bite the bullet and pay the tax now and then let that money grow um in the market. And you know, I just recently was advising a client on that very thing, trying to decide do I dissolve this entity and take out all of the assets and income um today and pay the tax, which would be a big tax bite today, or do I just let it sit in there and we deal with it later? And uh, you know, the math is saying probably makes more sense today. Go ahead and bite the bullet today and then let it grow um outside of the entity and and and the returns you get there will will make up for the tax you you paid to.
Wade LopezI think a lot of people forget the tax profession has been just in an upheaval since COVID. We know that in our partnership, right? And it it last so far this year has been one of the best years because you know, to me, tax isn't something you react to, tax is something that you design. And our designs are really coming over. It's really cool going to the clients. We finish things that go, hey, we're you owe, you owe a hundred bucks, or you owe three hundred bucks. You know, and they I know a lot of clients are like, I got ten thousand dollars back. We screwed up, yeah. That's not good, right? But when you it's okay to owe, I just don't want them to owe a lot, and that's really happening this year. And that means you know, because we know for the first time in a long time, um, what the tax laws are, right? And they haven't there's no change and there's no, hey, you need to worry more about helping businesses get their loan for COVID. I mean, there was just there's been the extension and then Virginia with uh you know, unfortunately the hurricane and then snow and the just constant extension or moving deadline. So hopefully that nothing like that happens again. But this has been a really good year so far when it's come to the design and the planning structure that went in that we knew how to plan worked out. And I and it's I I just like that part of it. It's really cool. It's been good for clients and business owners. So let's move on to the next part, which is you know what actually makes a business durable in your point of view.
What makes a business durable and owner-independent
SPEAKER_01Well, you know, I think a lot of business owners will make the mistake to think durability is about, you know, the grind, getting in there, working the hours, and just spending a bunch of time. And and if you if you can make it long term, that's durability. To them, right? But in reality, it's not. No, I think what's really durable is creating a business that doesn't need the owner. And if you have systems in place and and processes and you're doing your planning and you have a vision of where you're taking the your company, um, and you can spend your time working on the business, not in it, that's what uh is going to create a durable business and something that's gonna last.
Wade LopezOn that, what do you see? When you see a business owner break, typically what's it because
Common reasons business owners break down
Wade Lopezof?
SPEAKER_01When they break?
Wade LopezYeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. The easy answer is stress, right? It's it's stressful to be a business owner. And I think you know, getting up every day and you've you know it's not just your family you're taking care of, it's your employees and their families, and and so you know, stress gets there. But I I think it's just it's the lack of planning is what causes ultimately for a business to break.
Wade LopezIt kind of boils down to that, right? It does. The stress is created by that. I think that you you you mentioned durable, the ones that we find that are easy to take to market or get them to that point, or the ones that are that understand that planning with a purpose, not just about taxes, but it's about where you want to be in your succession, right? Right. Who is it going to be internal succession, outward succession, you want to go to market? Those types of things help eliminate stress. Also, the biggest tr struggle we see sometimes is trying to help business owners. I don't want to say remove their dependency, but get them to understand that again, if someone can't operate this business without you, it's not as profitable as you think it is. How do you help business owners with
Creating systems and planning for business longevity
Wade Lopezthat?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's very much like the you know, the parent having their first child and leaving it with someone, leaving your child with a babysitter for the first time because you you you know, you think you know everything that needs to happen, right? Well you do. Right. There's no one that knows more than the business owner about their business. Absolutely. But you know, I think that's one of those things that um when you can show them the impacts that it's having on the value of their business and how that is actually a negative to their business and that their value is going to decline. Um, if they don't correct that, then I I think that can help correct the course for them.
Wade LopezSo I think what I heard is systems in place.
Managing dependency and increasing business value
Wade LopezRight. Yes. And I think that that having a vision and predictable cash flow helps a lot, right?
SPEAKER_01Predictable cash flow helps a lot.
Wade LopezYeah. And right now, uh one discussion we had in the last podcast, cash is king, it seems like, and it gives you opportunity to acquire other people in your that you're competing against too, right? Right. So what do you see from a kind of going back to a long-term thinking for business owners? What do you see just in your view from a tax perspective and things that they should be thinking about where we are economically today?
Long-term thinking and economic considerations
SPEAKER_01Developing your your you know, five-year target where you want to be five years from now, and understanding that what's going on today, um, the impacts that that could have. Yep. Using debt that we just talked about wisely to make sure you're using that as a tool.
Wade LopezUm how often do you think someone should do a SWOT analysis?
Regular SWOT analysis for strategic growth
SPEAKER_01So, you know, we recommend when we're working with clients, um, we're doing SWOT analysis every other year.
Wade LopezOkay.
SPEAKER_01Um so we're doing it too every other year we we want to do a SWOT analysis and we want to do some surveys um within the organization to assess where they're at um so that they can look for the opportunities to grow is the big piece there, but also identify those weaknesses and threats and and know for sure that they they're mitigating that risk as much as possible.
Wade LopezAnd I think what we've identified here is a business that lasts is one that can operate without the owner.
SPEAKER_01Right.
Wade LopezI think that's you know, and I think that's what we try to point out to the the clients that we work with that we're consulting with. Sometimes it's easy, sometimes not so easy, right? So but I want to close out here. You know, we've talked about a lot of things, but let's talk about what matters right now. If there's one thing that matters for a business owner today, what do you think that is?
Key advice for business owners today
SPEAKER_01Boiling down the one is tough, but I would say the first thing would be that it's never too soon to start getting out of the business, getting that dependency removed. Yeah. Um, to start looking at ways that you can do that. Ask yourself, what are things that I could I could get someone else to do and withdraw yourself from that part of the business. Yeah, like that.
Wade LopezWhat about in the next six to twelve months? Like what do you think a business owner, given the landscape that we're in today, right? I mean, there's a lot of things going on when it comes to energy cost, I don't, you know, I don't think those things that's gonna transform to where it was overnight. But it's good to to be a producer instead of someone who needs it, like Australia and other places, right? But as a business owner, next six to twelve months, what do you think they need to be
Next 6-12 months: cash flow and debt management
Wade Lopezlooking for?
SPEAKER_01The next six to twelve months, I think they need to they need to have an understanding of their cash flows. Yep. And they need to be identifying uh areas where they can improve the cash flow efficiency, uh, looking at their debt structure um and making sure they're using that in the correct way and not.
Wade LopezAnd we've seen a movement in debt. So what about using you know credit right now? Are you are you okay with it still, or do you need to you think that's something you need to have a control of?
SPEAKER_01I mean, I definitely think you need to have a control of it. Um, but I'm I'm personally still good with using debt as long as it's not a reasonable rate still. Yeah.
Wade LopezSo last question is uh to close this out today, is what's the one thing you're watching over that you think a business owner needs to avoid right now?
What to avoid: complacency and lack of planning
SPEAKER_01I think that they need to avoid willingness to just keep showing up every day and working in the job because that's that's the easy default mechanism to go to, just show up every day. Like we've been talking about, you're not planning. Yep. It's very easy. I mean, time flies. Like you just said, you don't know if you talked to Mac last month or two months ago, right?
Wade LopezI swear I don't. It flies by it's unfortunate.
SPEAKER_01It flies by and you know, you you blink your eyes and it's been a year, and I think if you're not um if you're not paying attention to that, you're you're gonna get yourself in a in a spot. Have a purpose, you know. Not just show up.
Wade LopezYep, you know, and sometimes I I think that's really important. And you know, I I I have to say what some of my younger partners have taught me is you don't have to be there 12 hours a day to get a lot of stuff done. Yeah. Todd, appreciate you being here. Um, it was a great discussion. And for those of you listening, thanks for spending time with us today on Build to Last. If today's conversation helped bring clarity to your thinking around wealth, work, or life, that's exactly why we do this. Till next time, stay focused on building something that truly lasts.
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