Shaun Thornton - Shackleton, Steel, and Proof of Funds

Today we talk to a mentor of mine, amazing business broker, and Shackleton enthusiast, Shaun Thornton - Business Broker with FitzGibbon Alexander Inc.

Shackleton’s ship gets crushed by Antarctic ice, his crew ends up stranded, and the only path to survival is a tiny boat crossing through some of the worst water on earth. That sounds like pure history, but we keep circling back to why the Endurance story still matters: real leadership is knowing what matters, staying calm when plans collapse, and having the discipline to turn back before pride turns into disaster. 

From there we shift into a very different kind of endurance: building a long career that spans post war northern England, steel mills, engineering, and the moment you finally admit what you really do for a living. We talk about old school sales, making your own appointments, earning trust fast, and leading complex solution work even when you’re still learning the industry. If you care about entrepreneurship, sales craft, and leadership, there are a lot of hard won lessons packed into these stories. 

Then we get practical for small business owners, buyers, and anyone thinking about selling a business in Florida. We dig into what it actually means to “bet on yourself,” why preparation beats hype, how to screen buyers, and why proof of funds matters. We also talk valuation multiples, sellers discretionary earnings versus EBITDA, co brokering in Florida, and the hidden deal hurdles that can derail a closing, including licensing, insurance, landlords, and private equity driven timelines. 

ABOUT PERSONAL BETS

Person Bets is a podcast for the people actually running the business, not the investors, not the board, not the consultants on the sideline. Hosted by Chance Sweat, business broker at FitzGibbon Alexander, Inc. and founder of Foundry Leadership.

🔗 Personal Site: chancesweat.com
🔗 Brokerage Site: fitzgibbonalexander.com
🔗 Follow Chance: @itschancesweat

Transcript

Why Shackleton Still Matters

SPEAKER_01 0:00

I recently re-listened to Endurance about a certain Mr. Shackleton. And um a little birdie told me that that might be of interest to you. What's what's the interest uh with uh Shackleton?

SPEAKER_00 0:21

Uh Shackleton. So um my LLC uh is Shackleton Broker's PLLC, which shows you my devotion to the great the great man. So uh of course uh he was the man who wrestled victory from the jaws of d of defeat when his uh ship was uh trapped in the in the uh the the ice. But it's much more than that. Um you gotta go back to his uh first uh first days. And first of first and foremost, the the the um the book to read is uh uh merely titled uh simply titled South. And that's his own book written on on his uh about his uh his journey to the to the uh to the Antarctic and the tragedy that befell them and how he got his men out of um out of difficulty. Um Shackledon's Boat Journey is a s is a smaller book, but that's part of the uh part of the issue. So he's an Iri he was an Irishman and when he was born, he was born in born in Ireland, but of course Ireland at that time prior to in independence at that time uh was part of uh gr Great Britain. So he was he he was a Brit a Brit or again, you know, there was a differentiation between Brits and English has always been uh hazy. Um but he was so he was a he was a Brit and so he was considered, you know, sort of one of the team as it were. And it really uh uh exploration was held by the navy. They they the they particularly anything where a ship came into being banged, they they they grabbed it and it was it was theirs. So they had a guy called uh uh called Scott and um he you know he had his first uh e expedition uh to to the uh South Pole and Shackleton went with him and the ship they so often these are known by the name of the ship, and the that was the Discovery expedition. And the Discovery Um is in uh is in Dundee. It was built in Dundee, and there it rests today, right and right there on the waterfront in Dundee. And I've been on the Discovery, and I have pictures of myself, and I have pictures of the wardroom, Scott's cabin, and Shackleton's cabins. And uh so down they went, and they, you know, the and they always had this thing about um the exploration was uh you know, for the good of science, you know, that was the that was that was the thing. And uh, but in fact it was really to get as close to the pole as they as they could. So Scott and Um Shackleton and one other, I think it was Wilson, the three of them set off on this trek to to the South Pole, and they got so far, but Shackleton developed problems with his feet, which is often you know scurvy related, and you know, they didn't really know lime is, you know, we were called lime is the Brits were called lime is because we ate lime. And um so he so he they had to turn back and get back, and they you know they were close to death, and but they got back, and Scott never forgave him for that. So he sent him back at the next opportunity, and then you know he stayed, but they didn't really make any other attempts on the pole at that time. Then uh they uh came back. Uh Shackled then, you know, he then organized his own expedition. He went down and onto the ice, and then they went for headed for the uh the pole, and he got furthest south, and when he came back he was knighted. He was n he was knighted. So Scott obviously wasn't terribly happy about they were sort of arch rivals for forever. And uh then Scott went down and he the famous Scott expedition, he raced Amundsen to the pole. Amundson beat him. They the trick was um not to get there, but not to die. I mean that was the that was the thing. And Scott um it's so uh so when Shackleton went on his own expedition and he got further south, he knew when to turn back. Because one more step and you're dead because you can't get back in time. And so uh Shackleton knew when to turn back and got back, and you know, it was appropriately Sir Ernest, he was knighted. Sh Scott kept going, although he's behind schedule and and he made some other errors, shall we say. When he got to the pole, Amundsen had been there and gone a month before. So he was way, way late, and on the way back, the five of them, you know, were were killed, were dead, died. And then uh Shackleton, so now but it had been the scolar the poll had been taken. So Shackleton decided that he wanted to do something, you know, they're always about putting a name on a plaque, and uh so what he would do with that transpolar expedition, which is the one you're referring to. So he had a group uh group at the other end, and he was he was at one end and he was going to go across, but of course they got uh they got stuck in in the ice, and then this fantastic story of him him uh getting the guys off the ship. The ship eventually was crushed by the ice and sank. And of course, it's a couple of years ago they found it again, which you know all all part of the story. And um so so uh the way that they got them off the i so they were they got the boats, the three boats, and uh one of which is the James Caird, and we'll come back to that in a second. And uh so they the the three small boats and they you know they they they on the ice uh right off into the water, or then it was freezing and back off there. So and eventually they got to open territory, open water, and then they sailed into uh wherever they could, the bit of land that they could, called Elephant Island. Elephant Island, named after Elephant Seals, of course. And Elephant Island, um uh, well, we'll come back to Elephant Island. So Elephant Island he he dropped, so there were 28 of them in total. Yeah. 22 stayed on Elephant Island, and uh six of them then headed 850 miles across the worst water in the world to uh South Georgia.

SPEAKER_01 6:39

In a boat that's probably not as big as these three rooms put together. Uh indeed.

SPEAKER_00 6:44

Uh if you want, I'll show you the uh photo of when I'm touching the boat. It's in Dulich College, which is uh in uh well we'll say South London, south uh it's a bit southeast uh London. Dulwich College, it's there where Shackleton went to Dulwich College, didn't cover himself in too much glory at school. He was only there for one year and there was asked to leave. Uh, but that was his college, and so it's there. And I have I have a I could show you a photo with with with my hand on uh on the James Cad. And this this is a very, very, very small boat. Um the the carpenter uh uh Chippy, he'd uh he he built the gunnel up a little bit from wood from the other two and then left them on the on the island. They used the the the the other two as some form of shelter for the 22 that remain. So he built it up a wee bit and then covered it over, and then the the skipper, the the the boat the the boat skipper uh the the fantastic um you know the feat of uh sailing to get them uh from one speck in the in the water to another speck in the water 850 miles away. And of course that you know that's only half the story because when they got to the to the to the island they were on the wrong side and they would they they couldn't sail round the other side because the winds would have just kept them going and they were exhausted anyway. So three of them stayed, and Shackleton and two others then climbed. And we're not talking a hill, we're talking real, genuine, proper. They screwed screws into the soles of their uh boots to make crampons to to go up the ice and and over the top, and then and then knocked on the door of the hut where they'd left two years previously on their way down and said, I'm I'm Shackleton. And uh so that was uh that was uh you know uh it's uh a tremendous feat. And then to get back to his 22 men, it was encased in Ice Elephant Island, and he had three or four attempts of a uh uh a Chilean borrow uh he managed to get a Chilean boat and they they they they got him off, got all the guys off. And uh uh, you know, a hero for me, certainly, and a a hero for for many for many people. Um so Elephant Island, so three years ago I went on a uh a cruise to Antarctica and of course we stopped uh on the way back, so we went down. I mean uh w it was just one of a luxe cru cruise that I did. And uh we um so we you know we we we went down there and came out and on the way back they stopped at Elephant Island. Stopped there's nothing to see, nothing you can't get off, obviously, but I mean it's it's all everything is in straight into the sea. Uh it's just it was just on the other side of where we were. It's it's quite big, but on the other side there were some flat bits, and one of which they they were managed to get the the crew onto and they just lived on you know seabirds and uh penguins and you know whatever they could. Four and a half months they were on the the four and a half months before he could get them off.

SPEAKER_01 9:49

Uh do you think if you were part of that uh crew, you'd would you have volunteered to be the the one of the seven that did the 850 mile journey, or would you have been like this is dry land and it's well I think you know they didn't know, did they, until he he turned up at four and a half months later.

SPEAKER_00 10:05

They didn't know. Nobody knew they were there, of course. And so I think to to have a little bit of your destiny in your hands would have been would would have been better, but I'm no sailor, so I don't know, I don't know. He he he probably wouldn't have chosen me anyway. Yeah, so uh but uh there was one guy who lost some toes to frostbite, other than that, they were all fine. I think because you know w the so this was 1916, they actually set off from London just as war was breaking out in 1914, and I think, and I'm not sure about this, but when they got back, I think that w the first one to be killed was like three weeks later, had volunteered for the and it was in the trenches and and and was killed in the trenches, you know, for the irony of it all, you know. So um but these were brave, incredible. They don't, you know, you don't meet people like this, all of them. They were just you know so the story is um is a marvelous, you know, it's a marvelous, you know, a fantastic story, and uh as you can tell, I'm uh I'm just enraptured by a little well-versed in it.

From Yorkshire To The Steel Mills

SPEAKER_01 11:15

Yeah. But so so Sean, I think uh to anyone listening to this would obviously pick up that you're not from Florida.

SPEAKER_00 11:24

No, not uh not originally, of course am I? I'm so I'm from the the north of England. I'm from the um what was when I was a lad. So I'm I'm not as young as I used to be. I was I was uh born in 1948, and so I'm still operating as a uh business broker, as you know, and the reason is because I love it. I absolutely love it. I I I don't know what I'd do with without it. The you know the the the you know the the mental exercise of of business brokering. I just I just absolutely love it. And and peep meeting people and doing things and making a deal happen, and you know, as you know, I have my own podcast which is called Happy Buyer, Happy Seller, and uh you know I just uh uh enjoy you know doing that. So I so I so I was but so I was brought up in the 50s in Britain, post-war post-war Britain, and obviously into the 60s. And then we had the Beatles came along in 1963, um, and uh so which is from the north of England as well, right opposite. So I'm on the eastern side of uh of uh of uh England, uh Yorkshire and w Liverpool and Manchester is in uh Lancashire, so I'm that's where I'm from. And when I'm uh industrial and grimy, north of England uh in the fif in the 50s and 60s, uh and so uh where I my town is uh just outside of the city of Sheffield, and Sheffield is known for steel, and so we had you know steel industry, and you had a choice really. You could either go down the coal mines or work in the steel mills. I left school at uh 16 and uh went into the steel mills as an apprentice electrician, and uh then I went to day school and uh to go to and then I was uh sponsored to go to college, so I went to college and uh as an electrical engineer. That's what I where I where I am. And um so you know, and then I I worked as an electro electrical engineer for you know a few years, but never really had my I my heart in it, I have to say. That wasn't really my my thing. Um I so I joined a um a company uh so I I initially I worked at the steel in the steel company itself, but then I left and I joined a company that made equipment for the steel industry, all all kinds of equipment for the steel industry, a company called uh uh DAV, DAVY DAV, and it had some sort of names following it, Davy United, Davy Levy, Davy McKee, which was an American company, they bought the McKee bit. So, um, and then I got switched over to the States um for a you know a little quick two-year assignment in 1918. And uh uh they yeah, it was good. It was good. And uh it's funny because I was uh thinking about what we were gonna be talking about today, and uh it's funny because I used to so people used to say to me, So, what do you do? And I said, Well, I'm a I'm a I'm an I'm an electrical engineer, but I'm currently working in Thales, you know. That was that was it. Um and one day I was putting my tie on, uh going out on another sales call, and I'll tell you about the sort of circumstances of how we operated. But I was putting my tie on one morning and I looked in the mirror and I actually said to myself, nah, you're a salesman. And and that was that moment. I'd probably been doing it for about 18 months. And when I came to the States, uh they just hired a sales manager, and literally he put a a pencil line down the center of the so it was on the Ohio-Pennsylvania borderline and all the way down, and said, You take the east of that, I'll take the west, go. And uh so I said, Well, what do you mean? He said, just make appointments, call up people, call up uh production people, engineering people, you know, management people, and tell them go make appointments and tell them what we do. So I was on planes, on and off planes for you know, about 10 years, um, 10, 12 planes a week, you know, week after week after every week, not some weeks.

SPEAKER_01 15:27

So I have to ask because you know, I came from 10 years in sales, but when I started in sales, it was here's your territory, go, uh, and then a click of a button and the computer would just run this list of a thousand names to call. How did what was the process for setting those appointments?

SPEAKER_00 15:45

Um well it was uh it was a little a little uh simpler and cruder than that. You know, you call I called up people and said, Who's the could I have them could you put me through to the you know I call up Inland Steel and say, or could you put me through to the uh engineering manager, please? And I'd you know I'd I have to say the accent does help.

SPEAKER_01 16:06

I think it does.

SPEAKER_00 16:08

So I, you know, idiot Englishman abroad, I'll tell you it's uh it really it really works, you know. And uh so I you know, I would just used to and and I'd just go in and and what they told me to do was to just get out there and spread the word about our company, which was one of the foremost um steel mill equipment suppliers uh in the world, nobody knew about us. I mean, nobody, nobody at all knew knew about us. So I'd go in. I was thinking again as I was driving in, I was thinking, I remember going to see one guy one time, and he said to me, it would it and it really I so here we are now, you know, 40 or 45 years later, if you will. And uh he said to me, uh, so it was a little small uh uh um Allegheny Ludlem or I don't know what what which I think it might have been the company or LTV, maybe LTV, the small rolling re-rolling plant. So it wasn't one of the big ones, but it was there. And he was engineering manager, so I called him up, da-da-da, right, and I went. Morning, morning, fine. And he said to me, Oh, hello, yes, fine. So what do you have for me today? Yeah, those were his exact words. What do you have for me today? And it was like a I I felt like a brush salesman, I really did. I was really insulted. I, you know, uh uh well, could you show me a sample of what you think? You know, I mean it was literally well, I hear I am from Davy and we rolling mills, and yeah, we really yes we do, and uh well, we build how big, how long, and so and um it was a real slap in the face that he thinks I'm a salesman, and as I said to you, they were then shortly thereafter I said, Well, you're a salesman, that's right, that's what you're there to do. You're there to introduce the company and eventually get so we also had so I was from the the the the steel side, but we also had an aluminum side. Notice I say it with the correct pronunciation, um, and uh we we we had an aluminum side, and I'd never I wouldn't have known an aluminum mill if I tripped over it, you know, but but here and I'm now going in and I'm gonna talk to people who you know uh they they they roll aluminum every day and I've never seen one and I'm gonna tell them about you know so that was interesting. Um and in those days the steel industry was in a bit of a decline. They'd spend a lot of money on EPA for uh EPA requirements in the 70s, and of course that doesn't get you a single you know dollar on the bottom line. It costs you a heck of a lot, of course. And um, so they they it was in a it was in a bit of a bad way. It Lackawanna in um and uh up in Buffalo, just outside of Buffalo. When I went there the first time and had 25,000 employees. By the time, you know, the in the late 80s, I think they were down to a well uh a thousand say uh at most. And that was typical of the you know certain places declined. So I, you know, uh uh aluminum really sort of saved our our bacon. And um, you know, I went and I would you know go and meet with people and I was selling a particular product then, uh quality enhancement, you know, a quality uh product that we had for improving the quality of the material. And um we did okay, we did okay. And I and and I I I was uh uh selling I was visiting this plant up in Oswego, New York, if you know where that is. It's I think it's the snow capital of the of the country. Uh it's right on the right on the uh on the lake. And um and I made an appointment to see this engineering manager, and I, you know, I said, uh well here I am, and he said, Yeah, I said, Well, tell me about what's happening, and he said, Oh, I said, Yeah, we got this real problem. And I said, Okay, uh, how can I help you? And he said, Well, we've got this problem because this. And I said, Yeah, okay, well, yeah, I think, you know, there's one way of looking at it if you did this, and then this, and then and this led to this, the biggest project we'd had in the in the country. Um took 18 minutes, or those are not overnight sensations, but you know, it took 18 months to, you know, to develop this. And and the thing is that here's me, um, you know, early 30s, and you know, when you're putting solutions together like this, you you have to get the team together because you have to do very good, very specific engineering solutions, bespoke solutions, and you gotta get the team together, you've got to tell them what's wanted. So here's people I've never met before who are coming out from the UK. Right, we're here's what we're gonna do. We're gonna we're gonna meet with sour and so and uh this is a big thing for them, and you've got to concentrate on that and make sure that we've got an answer to that. And and um so I'd reason me. I don't know, I wouldn't know an aluminum mill if I saw it, and but I'm you know, I and I suppose that the one thing that I realized was that you know people need leadership, people need guidance, and you know, some some people can and some people can't, and but it did teach me that. It taught me how to in a proper way make sure that everything was, you know, ready to go and you could put the presentation to together to the client, and you know, these were the solutions that they were looking for, and and uh it just got more and more and more of that. And we did that order we got right at the end of 82. It was a it was a really big order for us and uh uh sort of put us on the map a little bit. I was very proud of that.

Becoming A Salesman On Purpose

SPEAKER_01 21:52

So I was you know planning and thinking about this conversation, and I was you know, the question I posed to you in our conversation was, you know, when did you decide? To bet on yourself, or why did you decide to bet on yourself? And I'm curious, you know, 60s, 70s, 80s, into the even in the 90s, right? I think that covers the bulk of your steel career. Um, but you've got the Beatles, you've got the Felix Dennis's of the world, you've got the Richard Bransons, the counterculture that's going on in Britain, and these guys who are going out and building these massive companies. Was there any moment during that that corporate career, if you will, where you're like, man, I I should be doing something myself instead?

SPEAKER_00 22:31

Well, you know, the uh I it's always cozy being part of a corporate corporate group, isn't it? Yeah, you feel safe and you so uh the my big thing was uh uh so I I w went book I went back to the UK and I ran international sales from there negotiating contracts and I spent a a year in South Africa. I spent a lot of time up the up the jungle in Brazil, I mean literally up the jungle in Brazil, the steel plants aren't always where you want them to be. Um and uh so that was that was good South Korea, Russia, I you know, uh pretty interesting contract uh in Russia. And um so I uh I I was I was happy I was happy with that. And then I got switched back uh back to the States and I got uh I was running with a with a company and then I got headhunted to run a company up in Ohio. And uh that was uh with from a a German company who are really one of the best. And then a corporate come together, you know, one of those, you know, one boat the other who and um they closed they closed me down. They looked after me. I have no complaints how they looked after me, but the the there were some really good people who lost their livelihood, which saddened me greatly, but you don't know it's one of those corporate things. So I thought, you know, there's gotta be something different. And um a buddy of mine up in so I was I was working in in uh in Ohio, but I was actually still living in Pittsburgh. And um a buddy of mine was a business broker, and we were chatting one day and he said, uh, what are you gonna do now? And I said, Well, I don't you know, I really don't know. I'm looking for you know, I've there's a few positions positions around Pittsburgh. How long ago is this? This is 2003. Okay. So what's that 23 years ago? And uh I said, Well, tell tell what do you think? Tell me more. And he said, Oh, I think I think with your background you'd be, you know, good at it. And um so he introduced me to an outfit called BBN, Business Brokers Network, headquartered in Dallas. So my wife and I actually flew down and met with them and oh okay, fine. I said, but not in Pittsburgh, we're moving south. And so this was a big, a really big decision, you know, big decision to leave the corporate world to sort of strike out on my on my own, as it were, because you are you you're not on your own, but you are on your own. And if I'd have been with BBN, just with BBN, then it would have been really on my own. And they provide all the documents and paperwork, and you know. Um but I said I'm going to Florida. It's all all you need to make meet a guy called Murphy. Um, he's our man in Florida. So I came down to uh uh Clear Well uh Clearwater and uh met with Roger, who was a prince of a man, and I realized in in two minutes he he was nobody's nobody's man. And uh um but it he had the arrangement that if anybody came to Florida he would take he would take them on and um uh we uh we s we s we struck it off and uh uh I said well I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna move to uh Sarasota. He said you'll enjoy Sarasota, it's a lovely place. He said you won't make any money there, but uh Yeah, it was very forthright was I rode you. And um he uh I he said I said no no no you misunderstood me. Let me I think it's my my accent. You're missing I said Orlando, he said, aha, aha. I think you'll be okay in Orlando. Yeah, that's it. It was a bit of a toss of a coin. And um so we came to Orlando, which uh you know is I've loved living here, it's a great city, really is, save for the save for the the roads. Um but uh that that's gonna be improved. But uh yeah, there's a lot of uh a lot of traffic around here. But um yeah, so that was a big, big, big, big move to to move away from corporate into an independent uh operation. Uh yeah, I was part of uh Murphy, and I was delighted to be part of a Murphy Great Great Company. Um and uh uh you know changing location and but uh you're still on your own as a business broker. You still gotta go out and meet people and and generate uh i interest and you know talk to them about their their business and uh you know understand their business, you know, and and whatever, and then buyers of course coming in. So yeah, you know, it's a it's very much uh sink or swim yeah yourself. And uh although you know I certainly had the net there with Murphy and the advice and and I think the other thing is bus BBF, Business Brokers of Florida, all of the documentation, you know, that we use here in Florida, which I'm yeah, um yeah, is is very very good, very, very helpful and and uh improving all all the time. So we've got a really nice uh situation here, and I think probably you know we would argue the number one um brokers organization and and the country, which means the world, you know. So it's it's it's it's very very good. Yeah, so that was a that was a big move for me.

Leaving Corporate For Business Brokerage

SPEAKER_01 27:35

What was those um those first few years like? Because I mean I'm in the thick of it right now, but did did it kind of take you back to your your first year as a salesman for the steel?

SPEAKER_00 27:46

Um yeah, yes, yeah, you gotta get out there and get yourself known. Um there's a lot you don't know about this business. I mean lots of it come naturally now, of course, but even you know, every deal you learn something new on every every deal. Um uh without without question. Even now I I learn I learn something on every deal I'm doing. Um so uh it was somewhat similar, but it it's you know you it it's it's not it's not easy. And and uh in those days, of course, it was mailings, you know, sending out sending out mailings. Um not for me the best way of of of doing it, but Rog Roger always believed in that, and I think to this day they they they when somebody signs up anew, they have to agree to a certain number of mailings. You know, that's the traditional way of doing it. If you go to I've been to IBBA meetings, uh that's the International Business Brokers Association meetings recently, and there's the you know some guys will get up and say mailings, mailings, mailings, you know. Some and of course the other one is the um the the letter on the uh on the door at uh you know seven o'clock in the morning. Walk walk go into a an arcade of shop uh of sh of of stores and shops and then just you know put the uh you know uh to the uh to the to the owner, hoping that they'll you know read in read the the the letter inside and say, oh yeah, come and talk to me. Uh I I I find that very difficult to do. I I've never done that. You know, maybe I'm a snob. I could be you know a bit snobbish about it, but I'm I've never I'm not saying don't do it, but I am saying that I never did. But the letters, but again, you gotta look then uh and I imagine probably now the return very l very low. The you know the the number of interests that you get from it is very low, and then the um the resulting, you know, well I get to a um you know to an actual listing, it's it's uh it's tough. But but yeah, some people like it, some people don't. And not not not for me, but now of course we have other methods. We have we know other methods, podcasts, uh, you know, for uh like this one. And uh yeah, you know, I've just s started doing a a number number myself and and uh social media and the and I find I love to get in front of people and talk to them um about their business. What is it, you know, what is it about your business that you can tell me and and what makes it unique and of course what you what are your plans? What are your plans? Where where do you want to go? Is it next week, next year, you know, ten years, you know, so you be prepared. Prepare, prepare, prepare, prepare, prepare. That's my my motto for for people who are you know thinking of selling their their business at some stage. So it's it's very important, isn't that?

SPEAKER_01 30:41

And then so with Murphy for quite some time, and then uh you were gonna strike out on your own, as I understand it.

Choosing Listings You Can Sell

SPEAKER_00 30:48

Uh that's true, yeah. So uh I was with uh Murphy for 16 years. Unfortunately, Roger uh Murphy uh and his right-hand man, Jim Sinclair, they they they passed away. Uh two two terrific guys. And um so I, you know, I I uh uh new guy came in, it was very good. Uh I liked him. Um, but I thought it was time uh to leave that particular uh uh organization and way of doing business behind. That was a franchise, and I felt I wasn't getting my you know my worth from the from the franchise. That was really it. You know, I was paying a franchise fee and I really wasn't getting, you know, it was really set up for and I think it was probably set up uh for people who have more I you know I don't carry multitudinous listings. I don't know how some people do it, but I I don't. I like to think that when I list a business for sale, and this is really important, when I list a business for sale, it's because I genuinely believe I can sell it. Perhaps, you know, 15, 20 years ago, uh, you know, I uh uh maybe I I wasn't so sure I could sell it. I thought I could sell it, but nowadays I really do need to feel that I will be able to sell that business at the agreed, not just the agreed price. That's not just it, but you know, the agreed principle of sale, you know, when you do this, you know, then this will aff uh occur and this will follow, you know. So so I anyway, so I'd made the decision. I I had the uh a clause in my uh uh franchise agreement that I could do that, and I uh invoked that clause. It was right at the time of uh of COVID. Um and so I thought goodness knows what's going to happen with COVID anyway, so I that was that. And I was but I did close a pretty decent deal with uh with uh Murphy right at the end of 2020, and as I was doing so, I was chatting with uh the the attorney who I've used for uh many deals uh uh and he's uh our our good friend uh Ed Ed uh Alexander. And we were we'd done the deal and uh we were having a coffee, and um I said to him, Oh, by the way, this is my last Murphy deal. I'm I'm gonna I'm gonna I've got a broker's license, so I'm going to uh form my own brokerage and uh just put my shingle underneath and uh then I've only got myself to argue with. And uh he said uh he really literally said, No, you're not and uh two, three days later I was sitting down with uh with him and his uh his his partner Matt Fitzgibbon, who I've known both of them for you know I don't know, 15, 20 years. Um and uh they're both two great guys, two wonderful people that were you know principled, you know, intelligent, smart, you know, driven, and all that stuff. Really, really talented people. And uh so I you know I was delighted to to join them and uh have been delighted uh delighted since. So that's where we are. And and of course, uh pleased that you have joined our team. It's uh it's it's great to to have you along.

SPEAKER_01 34:08

I'm excited. The the question I actually want to bring it back to is this this idea of endurance.

Why He Keeps Working

SPEAKER_01 34:14

Um You could have retired, Sean, I assume that you did well in the steel business, you've been doing well as a a business broker, uh but you chose not to. And so I'm curious why.

SPEAKER_00 34:29

Yeah, um, I uh you know, I I don't know what I do. I I I play tennis in the development I uh there's only too s I live, there's there's only so much tennis you could play. Um I could be involved more in you know, I have been involved in our HOA there, um, and I could be more involved in that. Uh I I decided to to park that um because it was taking a little bit too much time, but it's really interesting that in the running of a you know a pretty large uh five and a half thousand home uh HOA. So I I enjoyed that. I am on the board of the British American Business Council of Central Florida.

SPEAKER_01 35:08

The accent helps there too.

SPEAKER_00 35:10

Uh certainly, yes, yes, yeah. Um so I'm the vice president there. Um and uh we we just started that about 18 months ago and it's gone, it's rocketed, it's really, really good. So I could, you know, I could be doing all of that stuff. I I was on the board of a a charity that brings uh seriously ill and disabled children to the uh to the Florida area for um uh the holiday of a lifetime, uh Dream Flight. That was a wonderful, wonderful charity. And I'm still involved, I still do a little bit, a tiny little bit, not as much as I used to, but but I I I retired from the the board there. The SBDC? Uh well of course yes. There's so the Small Business Development Centre here in uh Orlando is a wonderful organization. I'd recommend anybody in small business to get themselves down there and at least chat with their uh representatives down there who are there to help. They're terrific people. Uh uh as part of the SBDC there's the advisory board council, which um what what so what the what they do, they form a an advisory board, the lady there, um Jill Kaufman, who who runs that program, uh they form an advisory board and you th that exists for about about 18 months, and you you know you go and meet and sit and look at the look at the business and you know what what what you you think they can achieve and how to help them to achieve it, you know. So that takes me back to my old days when I was sitting in management boards and boards, you know, and all. So I enjoy that. I I've enjoyed that. I was uh fortunate enough to be um honored with the uh uh advisory board member, local uh Central Florida member of the uh of the of the year in uh two I can't believe it, 2016, ten years ago. So yeah, that that was something I'm obviously very proud of. Um so yeah, I could do all of those things, but uh this is stimulating, isn't it? Business brokering is stimulating. Um and uh you know I for me I I just I'm a naive person. I believe in a handshake being all that you need in life. And um, you know, I'd I like to meet people and try and do something for them and you know have a handshake and say, let's let's go and let's try and try and do it. Unfortunately, we also need a bit of paper, but that's you know, it's the handshake that counts, you know. It's uh you know, morally so.

SPEAKER_02 37:39

So yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:40

Yeah, I was um when I uh first started having my conversation with Matt about joining Fitzgiven Alexander, he was like, Well, I met with him and he basically told me every reason why I shouldn't become a business person. Yes, yes, and he talked me through all the challenges that come with that. I met with Ed and he did the exact same thing. Uh and they said, Oh, you also you need to meet with with Sean, and I was like, Okay, and they're like, uh I think Matt was like, just let him talk. Right, because you'll get a lot out of it. And um, I was shocked during the course of our coffee here at the Citrus Club when you told me how old you were, and I've no I've I've given you a little bit of ribbon here and there about that, but it you know, I I've born and raised here in Central Florida, you you do get those people who, you know, you know, much younger than you, that they retire, they clock out, and then they just sit on a beach somewhere. And you're doing more than some of these people with just doing it on your own, right? The SPDC, the British American Council, like the volunteering, the business brokerage, which takes a ton of time and effort and and you know mental acuity to get through these financials of some of these paper people. Um you've seen way more deals and financials than I have, but you just you just don't give up.

SPEAKER_00 38:55

And I love that. Well, I if I didn't enjoy it, I I would uh I I mean down I live in a you know uh over 55 active adult community, and I see as I drive out in my you know in my shirt and tie, as they say, and they're all in shorts and uh t-shirts, uh, off to play pickleball, of course, and uh some tennis or golf. You can't we've got two courses in uh in our uh uh community. Um and you know, I think there's 200 clubs you can play whatever, you know. I always think of this thing about you know, old people playing Parcheese. I don't know what it is. It's like you know, Seinfeld. I'm a big Seinfeld fan. You know, uh in life, I always say, you know, right, whatever you're doing in life, there's a Seinfeld episode for that. And you know, I always uh they never I don't think they ever said, you know, Del Boca Vista remember the Delvo Del Boca Vista where his parents went uh to live in Del Boca Del Boca Vista, and of course where I live, it's Del Boca Vista. I mean, you know, that that's where it is with all the animosity that goes on, you know, and people just having too much time on their hands, too much time on their hands, there there is that as well. So that does uh the police I love. I love being there, I've lived there in many years, and but but uh I'm I'm happy when I'm driving past them, quite frankly, quite frankly, because I'm gonna be stimulated by whatever whatever

Launching Happy Buyer Happy Seller

SPEAKER_00 40:20

happens. And as you know, uh just in the last few months, I started my own um podcast with and what I what I did was to bring in people who are associated with uh with uh small business. So uh SBDC, advisory board, uh yeah, I uh uh and uh a very good CPA, uh people who have sold their business, people who have bought business. So just so I can say to people, listen, tune in, you're gonna pick something up. You're gonna pick something up about your business. And if you're thinking of selling, you're gonna pick something up. And if you if you're thinking of buying, you know, but you'll pick something up as well. And uh so I I do that at uh a studio in in Winter Park, and uh that's what they're out now. Some of the some of them are out more and more, and I have got some work to do to sort of promote them now. That's my next uh my next mission to be to be doing that. Um so it's a challenge. It's a challenge, yeah. You know, so you know, you using social media, I uh I was the the National Entrepreneur Centre where the um SBDC is, uh they've got various groups, including SCORE, and they have associations, the Winter Park Business Academy. I was there last week at a a a guy who is uh uh uh I tell you this guy, if you want an AI expert, now there's lots of AI experts. If I know the man, I know the AI expert, I can tell you, absolutely positively. I've sat in on I saw last year I sat in on one of his presentations, I thought this guy is really, really smart. And uh Ray Ray R. E. Y Ortega. Ray Ortega is his name, and I thought, this guy, and he's so easy, he's not, you know, like a lot you you come across, he's so easy. Well, this and this and this, and we do this and this and this, very, very sharp guy. So I had him on the show. I had him on the show uh a few weeks ago that's yet to come out. Uh but last week I went to his latest presentation, and uh he's in fact he's he's doing three on the on the subject, uh, March, April, and May. So get get if you're interested, you should you should go um and and see that. The Winter Park Business Academy. Um they're good. So I've been to a number of uh pr presentations uh uh that they that they do, and that's how I came to go on where the studio at the studio at the studio, and there's this studio, um uh C47 Studios, and uh I met the the owner and uh uh Josh Josh Pies is his name, and we got together and said, okay, let's let's do it. So I we had an agreement and I've been I've been uh you know taping uh podcasts uh ever since. So yeah, it's all you know it's a st it's stimulating, isn't it? I I the thing is when you read about um you know celebrities who have passed away and they're younger than you, that's that's a uh that's you know celebrities or sports people in the oh yeah, 72 years old, oh crumbs, yeah, that's a sh oh younger than me. But you know, I'm I'm in decent shape and uh and mentally I think I'm okay. I haven't nothing's started to fail yet. I don't think that's the problem. So yeah, I I I thoroughly enjoy it.

SPEAKER_01 43:40

I really

Sharing The Playbook And Co Brokering

SPEAKER_01 43:41

do. Well what I appreciate about you is when uh you and I met, I think probably better than the second coffee we had, uh you basically said, All right, if I was gonna turn back the clock, this is how I would do it.

SPEAKER_02 43:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:54

And I've listened to some bits of uh the podcast, and I've listened to some other conversations between you and men. And ed and stuff like that. And what I've kind of picked out is that, you know, some salespeople, some real estate agents people I I know in my network, they take their their success metrics or how they were successful and they hold it very close to their chest. Right? They don't want to let anyone in on that. But what I've picked up from you in the very beginning, it's like, I'm happy to tell you. Absolutely. I'm happy to share it with you. And I'm curious why that that to me is counter to a lot of salespeople or people who have a sales aspect of their job. You've been educating people and offering free advice.

SPEAKER_00 44:34

Well, yeah, I do that's very true. And I I think it's important. And and by the way, business brokers of Florida in particular are very good at this. So if you go to a local BBF meeting, or if you go to the annual conference, which is in uh at uh Lauderdale downtown. Lauderdale. Lauderdale, I think, isn't it, in August August? August, isn't it? Yeah. You'll f you'll see that people will be there giving presentations and and they don't they don't hang back. Because the market is I think there's several reasons. Certainly the market's big enough for us not to have to squabble, shall we say. Um, but also the truth will be out. So if somebody takes, you know, five notes from a presentation and goes in front of a client and uh a potential client says, this is the way we do it. You know, if if you don't know it and understand it inherently or you haven't experienced it, then it's it's probably gonna show. Yeah, so uh I I'll uh um well yeah, there's a very good f a good friend of mine who was in the um uh uh or Orlando area, he's he's moved over where he now works through out of Tampa. His name's Mike Shea. And your presentation uh that Mike's giving, he he's done countless, countless deals. Um he he carries a lot, you know, a lot of uh listings. That's his thing, not mine, but that's his thing. Um but his presentations, he doesn't hang back at all. He doesn't he tells ever exactly um you know how to how to do it, what to do, how to how to succeed. Um I think you know people do that. IBBA as well. They that's a that's the IBBA is a great institution and they want to improve the quality and they want people to learn, and so you know, older, more experienced people are just sharing their ideas. And I I'm you know, try to do the same.

SPEAKER_01 46:33

Yeah. I think what I picked up during my BBF onboarding too was that uh we encourage co-brokering. And so, well, if I'm super successful and I have a ton of listings and I can teach something to this person who's gonna get them a ton of listings or a ton of buyers, well that actually also benefits me. Yes. Because now we're working together. Absolutely. And uh you don't get that in other sales organizations, didn't get that in my old sales organization.

SPEAKER_00 46:58

Well, of course, uh again, BBF is quite unique. Um you will not s find that same co-brokering attitude in, I'm gonna say, many other parts of the country. We foster it here, always have. Twenty-odd years I've been doing this right from day one. Roger Murphy was part of the one of one of the four people who started B BBF, so which is about 30 years old now, I think. And uh and you know, uh the rules and regulations was part of the you know, people who started it. So he very much encouraged us all to do that. And and yeah, it's it it I think it you know it works here, it works. Now, let's be careful. You gotta make sure that the person that the broker is somebody that you uh that you uh know love and trust, and that the people that they're br bringing in as um as a potential buyer for your business are genuine buyers. Uh because you can't you're not working with them. You're you know, this is the n it's the one time that we actually split, and we have the listing broker working for the seller and the the the buying broker working for the uh uh the for the buyer. And and that that's it. So there is that danger that you're you know, you're uh there's a little wall between you and the buyer, of course. But uh uh generally speaking, you know, the brokers are very good and they're very well trained, and you know, there are some exceptions to the rule, and uh, you know, I the I know who those exceptions are, and you know, because you can't just have somebody saying, Oh, I've got a buyer for you. Well, uh are they qualified? You know, we have this thing about being qualified, and who knows what that it's you know, define qualified for me. Um but it's not just financially. But it is financially, but it's not just financially. So financially background experience, where are they? Where are they located? You know, I had a uh an old broker again at Murphy, again, has sadly passed away, very uh uh very nice guy, and uh he was he he was a really experienced broker, and he used to say, Look, if somebody's living, you know, somewhere else in the country and they're oh, I'm coming to Florida, which a lot of people do, coming to Florida, and I'm gonna buy a business down here. Okay, fine. Yeah, okay. Um could could would you mind, and he used to say this, would you mind just looking out the window at your the your the your driveway? Uh is there a U-Haul truck in your driveway, you know, and if there isn't, then they're not coming, you know. So and uh and I've had I've had some experience of that, people who are saying they're coming and whatever, and uh, you know, it's just and and people who say, well, you know, can this business be run um from afar? Can you know, can can will it run by some generally speaking, no. Come and you know, there's a there's a there's an owner of the business in the business right now, they're in there every day, having all the fun and anguish of running a small business, you know, you're gonna come and do it. If you want, you can't do it from Denver. You know, I've had I've had people who have tried to do it, you know, and I I I I just said you know, no, you it would not be possible. I I'm very clear on that now. Yeah, um and now i if it's currently being run from afar, even that's tricky, but there's some chance, if you will, but no, no, it's yeah, come and come and run the business.

Time Wasters Licensing And Deal Hurdles

SPEAKER_00 50:26

W what is the fun and anguish of being a business broker? Oh, um the one thing that's most pre the most precious commodity, particularly when you get a little older, of course, but the most precious commodity is time. And I could show I have the scars to show, you know, for all the time I wasted with uh with deals that I should not have uh wasted. So listings maybe I shouldn't have taken. Um and uh you know buyers that I shouldn't have uh that we shouldn't have uh dealt with. And that that's more more fool more fool me, you know. More you know, look if I was honest, if I looked in the mirror and was honest with myself, you know, more fool me, so don't don't do it. So that means more upfront, more upfront work, you know, and being honest with sellers. Uh, you know, I'm sorry, I'm not prepared to uh take this listing because um ABC. And one of those, one of those, I'm sorry, is could be um I'm sorry, not prepared to take this listing because I value the business based upon market conditions, which I what I do, you know, all day, every day. Uh based upon market conditions, I believe that this business should be um should be listed for sale at this price. If you want more, then um I'm sorry, I'm not the person to uh well, you know, we could try it at that and whatever. No, you you know, we can try it at this. And uh so I'm you know, I I th I think that's one of so it's time. It's time when you're banging your head against a uh a wall and uh you know with so you gotta buy a well tell me what your plans are, tell me, you know, where are you located? Well, when you get down here, then you know what about this? And uh so let's look at your financials, please. Um yeah, I need proof of funds, and I'm absolutely adamant on that now. Buy a financial statement, proof of funds, bang. That's it. My oh my aunts promised me 50,000. Well, when she's put it in your account, then it's there. But prior to that, it it isn't, you know. So that's that's the biggest, that's the biggest uh anguish is is time. The time that I've uh spent, some would say wasted. Um and uh I think if you asked a lot I ask a lot of uh brokers, they they may well they may well tell you that same thing. In the fun? Oh. When the champagne cork hits the ceiling, and I get a little bit of spray on my shoulder, you know. Happy buyer, happy seller, you know. It really is. It's invigorating. I've got photos, I look back, I look back and think, oh yeah, we did that. We did that as a team. We we being, we being, okay, the seller, obviously the buyer, yeah. I'll throw myself in there as well. Um, the banker, you know, the landlord, um, you know, all of those elements that come together to make it to make it happen. Um, and of course, then the the attorney putting all the documentation together. All of those people, we as a team made made it made it happen. Or we couldn't get an insurance. I remember a deal some years ago we were due to close two days before closing insurance. The insurance, so yeah, we'll we'll we'll just run on with the existing insurance. Okay, yeah, fine. Two days before closing, the the insurance, the broker said, oh they they're not they're not writing this anymore, whatever it was, whatever comp company it was. They're no no this they're that that they're out there they're they're they're pulling that out of, you know, they don't do it anymore. Well, so now we've got to get insurance. So finding an insurance broker who could, you know, whatever one insurance, you know, insurance company. So um just something like that you never you never think of. Uh licenses, my God, licenses, um, general contract. You know, I had a um I had a uh screen uh way back, way back when Charlie came through. That was 2004, that was in my early days, a screen business. Getting a license for a screen business, my goodness, it's just like the same as a general contractor license. It's four years and uh, you know, that's four years, that's it. Well, you've got to get the experience and then you've got to do the tests. Here in Florida, it's very tough. Licensing is very tough. Um so always so the you know, I have this thing about the the hundred hurdles to close a deal and and get in over 99 of them, it won't do it. You gotta get over all of them. And some are small hurdles, some are big hurdles, but you you know, you got you gotta get over all of them, and that's what licensing. Well, what's your license? Well, I've had this way. General contractor. I've I've had general contractors for sale, and you know, I always say I'd with all due respect to pizza places. Um you got a pizza, you got a pizza business. I've never sold a pizza business, by the way, but you got a but you've got a pizza business. I could learn to make pizza, even I, in a week, I'm sure I could. So, pizza business, the world's your oyster. A general contractor, you know, the the the spectrum of potential buyers uh narrows down considerably, you know. So you've just got to be looking at all that. Is it uh how are we gonna do it? What will we do? What about qualifying the business after sale? Well, there's dangers with that. Or there's somebody in the organization who has the license and they'll qualify the business. So now here you are, you're buying a business, your whole life is thrown on this business, your livelihood is thrown on this business, and you're dependent upon somebody who works for you to qualify the business, and to continue to qualify the business. That might be okay. But are you okay with it? Do you understand what that actually means? Could you be held to ransom by them? And then we've got big boy buyers. What about big boy buyers? We're not even talked about them, you know, the institutional investors and uh private equity groups, and you know, I just and they, by the way, you you you know, when they come in, they're in charge. The you know, the seller and the broker, let's just, you know, they're in charge. Because they just run the show. They just I had an example a couple of years ago, you know, with a month to go to selling, to to closing, and we're all ticking along, and we'd been through up and down with this, there were all kinds of things going off. But this particular bit they said, right, excellent. Uh, we're coming to onboard the staff next week. We're coming to onboard the staff next week. So I said, uh, okay, um I think I know what you mean by that. Do you you yeah, we're coming down and we're gonna tell them all about the wonders of working for our organization and all of the benefits that they're gonna get. And I said, uh but the staff don't know. And generally speaking, the staff don't know, you know. And uh so I said to the seller, here's what they want to do. What it as soon as this the cat's out the bag, as soon as you, you know, as soon as this happens. So the seller had to make a very big decision, and you know, the the buyer said, Well, that's that's what we do. That's we know we've done it dozens and scores of times, and that's what we do. So, you know, that was a very tricky time. We we got it done, we got the got the deal done. Um, but that was that was so so we're working with the pri you know, the big so you know, I meet people, and I'm sure you have or you certainly will, oh they're they're you know, they're coming, they're sweeping through the country buying up uh tire repair businesses. HVAC, HVAC, yeah. Yeah, they're coming, oh they're off they're they're paying a premium for this, you know. Yeah, okay, right. So let's get some. Oh, then of course there's the um the well, I always, you know, when I'm giving a presentation to to sellers, and I've done quite a few down at the SPDC and other places. And I said, well, tell me, right at the beginning, I've tell me what's the um what's the multiple? So come on, somebody's got a multiple story here. You know a you know a guy who was sitting on a plane next to a couple of people who were talking about they knew somebody's aunt who had sold their business for, you know, one of those for, you know, ten times. Well, ten times what? Yeah. You know, if it exists anyway. And what kind of a business world? Oh, exactly the same. Yeah, right. Is it is it sellers discretionary earnings? Is it eBidder? What what is it? And what's the difference between, you know, so so uh it's always three to five SD. Three to five SD.

SPEAKER_01 59:23

Maybe not. My business didn't sell for that.

SPEAKER_00 59:26

And you know, you know what that means, you know. So I um it's it but but can I mean going back to your previous question, all of this stuff has got to be whirling around in your in your mind, you know, and uh um and you've got just gonna walk walk the seller through it all. You just walk them, you know. Uh landlords, landlords, I had a I had a terrible experience with a landlord a couple of years ago, and uh, you know, they they they flat out said, you know, we we don't want we don't want to lose this we don't want to lose this owner of the business. Well, yeah, but he he he wants to move on. Well, yeah, but we don't we don't we don't want to do on. Well yeah, but uh you know it's their I think it's their prerogative. Well we just yeah. So w they put every hurdle, every block in the way that they could. Uh ultimately we uh we did get it done. Um couple of unusual little clauses in the in the contract. Um but we did we did get it done. And it was but they were awful to deal with. They were absolutely awful. I I've I've experienced you know different different ones, but this particular group were absolutely dreadful. And uh they just just didn't care, you know. That's uh but you know, that's life. So you gotta overcome all of these things. And it's all a mental challenge, you know.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:52

It's good stuff. Both the funny and the English.

Where To Find Sean Online

SPEAKER_01 1:00:55

Well, Sean, I appreciate your time this morning. I appreciate for being a one a mentor to me as I've come on and gotten spun up with the last uh few months. And uh I appreciate that you have the endurance to keep being uh uh an excellent business broker, and uh every person I've met at the club when they ask me what I do, and then I say where I work, if it's given Alexander, they go, Oh, Sean. I'm like, Oh, Sean, there he's the best guy. And then it's a three or four minutes on how Sean's the best guy. And it's like Oh, I know. I I work with him and and you know he's he's taking me under his wing a little bit. But as we wrap up here, where can people find more about you and your podcast?

SPEAKER_00 1:01:31

Well, yes. Um so Happy Buyer, Happy Seller is my podcast. I am I am a little bit behind in doing the promotion uh uh as I should be. I've got about three or four, uh maybe even four or five now, which are actually on the uh so they're they're on the the usual uh r radio uh radio channels which are um uh um iHeartRadio, Apple, Apple Apple, Google, um what's the big what's the big one? I should know um the big podcaster. Um YouTube? Uh no, so YouTube, we've got that, that's the video, so they're all they're all videoed, and we've got video snips, and then I'm gonna Spotify. Spotify, thank you very much. Um so it's on all of those, but I've just in the process of any moment now my own website. My own website, which uh I I grabbed some time ago uh the the the business broker orlando uh.com, which which it's called, but actually happy buyer, happyseller.com. I grabbed that recently, which was a bit of a coup for me, so I'm really pleased about that. So that will also take uh take people. I would say in the next couple of weeks that's gonna be uh it's gonna be on the time this one comes out, it should be. Oh good, okay. All right, excellent. Yeah, so it'll be there. Yeah, and uh, you know, a bit about me on there and a bit about what what I do. And what I'm what I'm then doing is what we're just talking about, all the advice for for uh uh sellers and buyers. I'm putting I'm putting that on my website uh as well. So, you know, a little bit about a bit about this, a bit about, for example, SBA financing. Oh and by the way, one of my podcasts is one of the very best uh SBA uh uh financing uh ladies around here, who I think you know, don't you? Yes, she did my deal when I bought my business in 2020. Yep, Lynn Singletary. And she's been I've known her for very many years. She's she's really, really good. So she was on my my show. So so that was uh that's got lots of information there. Uh we also had uh of course I had Matt on and I had Ed on talking about closing. I mean, you know, the the the the the closing process, you know, what you what you go do. So um yeah, so you can find me on all of that stuff. Um more more to come. And uh it's really exciting. I'm I'm really, really, really, really happy with the way the podcast has gone. It's uh like a an in a new an injection for me, you know. Uh you know, um sort of the injection of enthusiasm as well, if you will. But I've always been enthusiastic anyway. But but you know, it's really good. It's really good. Well, I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:11

Well, Sean, you're the best man. I appreciate your time this morning, and I'm sure we'll talk again on this.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:16

Well, that's uh that's kind of it. It's uh you may have noticed I I enjoy talking. So you know, that's uh that's just the way I am.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:22

So it seems to be a uh a common thread in business brokers.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:26

Ah now you s now you're right there, absolutely. Yeah, yeah. I think you know it's you you've got to have tremendous uh mental agility and um mathematical capability and just the the personality to to meet and you know love. For storytelling. Absolutely, I'd love for storytelling, that's very good. Um so there we are, yeah. Well, and and you gave me the opportunity to talk about Shackleton. What more could I ask for? Appreciate you, Sean. All right, thanks very much.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:57

That was fantastic.