Investigating The Royal Oak - Haunted Pub Investigation

Crabby is joined by Dan as the pair discuss their experiences at one of KASE Paranormal's favourite locations and allegedly one of the Most Haunted Pubs in Kent, The Royal Oak.
 
 They debunk the Green Shadow Man they captured on camera, and describe other paranormal experiences at the alleged haunted pub.

About KASE Paranormal

KASE Paranormal is a private paranormal investigation team based in Kent, established in 2007. We support households and families experiencing unexplained activity with an evidence-led, grounded approach.

Website: https://www.kaseparanormal.co.uk

Private Investigations: https://www.kaseparanormal.co.uk/private-investigations

Contact: https://www.kaseparanormal.co.uk/contact-us

Transcript

Intro

SPEAKER_01 0:00

While we're on the subject of the attic, let's talk about our experience up there because we had quite an incredible experience. So it was the second time we were there, right? Or the third might have been the second. It was with me and you were doing a vigil in the attic. Well actually more in the room. In the bedroom rather than the attic space itself. It was really quiet, wasn't it? No devices going off, we couldn't hear anything. Just felt like it was in a silent room, not a lot happening at all. So we decided to move down to the end of the attic where there was funny enough, there's two sofas down there and a table, wasn't there? Huge space. We've gone down there, calling out, trying to listen out, nothing, right? Absolutely nothing. We even decided, right, let's save batteries on the devices, do especially the cameras, switch it all off for a good five or ten minutes. We're talking about football work. Yeah, I remember, yeah. Let's not talk about football in a moment.

SPEAKER_02 0:55

Um and yeah, we're talking about all sorts of things, and all of a sudden, and then I firmly believe this wouldn't have happened if the cameras are on, running towards us in the attic, bomb bomb bomb bomb bomb, getting louder, stopped where we were sitting, and we just both looked at each other like what on earth was that.ka Krabby, your usual host, and joining me today as co-host is the leader of Kenton Southeast Paranormal, who you've met before in another episode. Dan. Good to have you in the hosting seat. Dan, welcome back.

SPEAKER_01 1:51

Good to be here, mate. Uh although no Ricky, notice he's away and he was approved annual leave. Still on holiday. That guy is constantly on holiday. I know, I know. Uh how many he's gonna miss about three episodes, isn't he? I think so. Not good enough. Not good enough.

SPEAKER_02 2:05

You give him the annual leave, so there we go, that's all new.

SPEAKER_01 2:07

What he doesn't know is though we've we've we're using his uh his house with as a parking space. So that's right. There you go, Ricky. There's uh we've got free parking out of you, so that there's this there's uh there's an advantage to you being away.

SPEAKER_02 2:20

And obviously, you know, he investigates haunted buildings in the dark for fun, but he's chosen a beach over another episode about a pub about a pub this time with a cursed room and a haunted attic. That tells you everything.

SPEAKER_01 2:33

Yeah, I've had a message from him actually. Um he says hi, he's having a lovely time, and he feels absolute no guilt whatsoever. No, not good at that. You're fired. You're fired, just like having sugar.

SPEAKER_02 2:45

Yeah, we'll we'll send him a link with the uh the moment it goes live anyway. Yeah, absolutely. It's a non-negotiable. Uh so today we're talking about a location that you and I know very well, and that is the the Royal Oak in Hawkeast. We've been there three times now, and I think it's fair to say there's a lot to get into, a lot to unpack.

SPEAKER_01 3:05

Absolutely. But before we do, if you are watching on YouTube, uh please subscribe, hit the bell to be notified every time we uh upload a video, which is bi-weekly. We've had a few questions actually about the case files when it's going to be released. It is bi-weekly. Um, so yeah, so every two weeks. We did drop three on the first uh on launch day, but yeah, every two weeks from now on. Uh, subscribe on Amazon, Spotify, and Apple Podcasts as well. Or it's on every platform basically, every pop uh podcast platform uh you will find us. And yeah, leave a review, rate the show. It does genuinely make a massive difference. Um, Krabby, the history.

History

SPEAKER_02 3:42

The foundations of the building actually dates back to the late 1600s. The the cellar in particular still has some of the original architecture today. Um back then it wasn't an actual pub, it was um free cottages that were owned by a family called the Grey family. Now, there's been a bit of a misconception, as some people believe the building was called the Owl House, but doing a bit of research actually shows that that was actually incorrect, as the Owl House was located a few miles down the road in a place called Lamberhurst. However, those buildings were kind of interlinked because of their history and the the history of Kentish smuggling. The Owl House actually, the name actually comes from owlers who were smugglers that moved wall illegally to France and they communicated by mimicking owlhoots at night, which is a bit a bit random. Um, but these houses were originally where travellers would visit because Hawkhurst is um it's kind of like a a through road for Kent from port, say from Dover, or if you're going from Rye. It was it was a cross point where people could visit, they could stay, they could rest, and they could get food and drink and then be on their merry way, basically. Uh Hawkhurst, known today, is still known as the Crossroads of the World, as it connects Kent to Sussex. And back in the 1700s, Hawkhurst was the base for smugglers to move items such as tea, silk, and brandy, for example, for example, and um and they were kind of travelling from Rye uh down to the Sussex coast and then obviously bringing it back up to Kent. Now, the building that we now know as the Royal Oak was actually known as Highgate House. The owners of the building, as I said, were named the Grey family, and their son Arthur Grey grew up to become the leader of the famous smuggling group called the Hawkhurst Gang. Now, these weren't nice guys if you were a local and you lived in a local farm and you didn't comply to what this gang wanted you to do or or to give them what they wanted. They basically murdered you, they crucified you on your barn door. Nice. Not only to get what they wanted, but also to issue a warning to the locals in that area that if you don't comply, this is what could could happen to you. They actually had one of the strongest smuggling reputations in the whole of the UK, and especially in the in the 1700s.

The Investigations

SPEAKER_02 6:13

Um there is a famous story of the Hawkehurst gang, which is that they owned a ship and that used to travel over from France and back, and they used to pack it full of tea, silk, tobacco, salt, and alcohol. And on this one occasion the Royal Navy impounded their ship over the over at um pool in Dorset. Uh the Hawkehurst gang got word of it, and they weren't happy, obviously, and 60 of them travelled in the middle of the night to to go to Paul, whether it be by donkey or by horse. And um their ship was anchored out to sea, and it was next to a frigate which was guarding it. Now there was no police back in that day, it was all British Army. They basically did the policing.

SPEAKER_03 6:59

Right.

SPEAKER_02 7:00

So all of their stock had been offloaded onto shore, and it was into a building called the Customs House. And cleverly the Hawkhurst gang waited for the tide to go out, and where this frigate ship was, it meant that with the tide being out, um, their cannons couldn't reach shore because obviously they weren't floating anymore and they couldn't direct where they needed to, so they were quite clever there. So the gang hit the customs house and they took all of their items back, and that ended up causing a massive embarrass embarrassment for the for the government at the time. However, a few years later, I say a few years later, like 40 years later, um, the demise of the Hawkhurst Gang um started. So between 1747 and 1749, that was when you saw one of the most violent and dramatic chapters happen in British criminal history. Their downfall wasn't caused by a singular event, but rather a series of brutal, brutal tactical errors that turned both the local community and the British government against them. And one of these was called the Battle of the Battle of Goldhurst. Gouthurst, Gouthurst, sorry, that's the one. And a local guy called William Sturt, who was ex-military and a and a corporal in the uh British Army, he raised a militia to basically wipe out the gang. Oh wow. So he got locals together and he got other ex-military personnel to assist him. And there was a big old shootout, and they had snipers in church towers, they had gunners up in upper windows of houses, and the gang's leader's brother called George Kingsmill was shot dead, and the gang retreated in a in a humiliating defeat. But with this defeat, it proved to the nation that they could actually be beaten. The gang reuned on for a few years, but eventually they just they just petered out. So you had, as I say, Arthur Grey, he was the mastermind and the son of the local Grey family, but he was captured in 1748. He was tried at the Old Bailey and executed at a place called Tyburn. Uh, in a rare move for a smuggler, his body was gibbeted, gibbeted, hung in a cage, basically, at Stanford Hill as a grues as a gruesome warning for kind of any gang members who wanted to go the same way. Then there was another guy, Thomas Kingsmill and William Farrell. They were the last major leaders of these Horcasse gangs, and they were both hanged in 1749. Their bodies were sent back to Kent to be hanging hung in chains, and by the end of 1749, over 75 members of the gang had either been hanged or transported back to the colonies. So that's a brief history of the smuggling aspect of uh and the gang culture surrounding the building.

SPEAKER_00 9:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:51

So moving back to it being a pub, so the 1800s and the Victorian boom, Hawkhurst just became a popular spot for wealth for the wealthy to build gentlemen's residences. The Royal Oak was expanded and modernized to accommodate more sophisticated visitors. Then one of the most dramatic moments in the pub's history occurred in June 1913 when, as you know, a massive fire broke up. The building was significantly damaged, but due to its importance to the village, it was rebuilt, restored shortly after, um, which accounts for some more of its modern early 20th century architectural features that are still there today. And even, as I say, even today, the building retains its traditional features such as exposed oak beams, uh large open fireplaces, and its hint at an 80 uh you know 18th century roots, which you know that they're evident and can be seen throughout the whole building. And today we know the Royal Oak is not only a pub and a restaurant, but also a hotel. Um and it still acts as a traveller's place to stay, like it did back in the you know the nine uh the 1700s.

SPEAKER_03 11:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:02

And unfortunately experienced another fire in 2003, and this time it actually completely gutted the blaze. And um, but because it was a because of the importance of the building and it being a listed building, it was renovated fervor, and it is what it is today. And I guess obviously that takes us up to present day. So there's a lot to uh, you know, there's a lot to it, but also we know that there have been multiple deaths throughout the course of history, not only in the building, um, but in surrounding areas of that as well. Um but some of the deaths are natural natural causes through kind of the the the old landlord or the old people that owe owned the building, they died there over the course of history. There's been some suicides, and apparently there's been weird deaths by misadventure, apparently. Yeah rumour mill. But also there are a number of paranormal stories that come with the place as well, especially staff that we've heard from as well, and in the past they've heard and whispered sorry, not whispered, witnessed paranormal activity in their normal day-to-day jobs. And also people that have visited the building have claimed to see spirits in and around the place in their rooms, they've woken up and there's someone at the end of their bed and they've immediately checked out. So, yeah, and I guess we've experienced unexplainable happenings in there as as well.

SPEAKER_01 12:34

No, absolutely, yeah, we've we've experienced stuff, and uh and what you're saying there, the witness testimony is kind of marry up, don't they? And it's interesting because I know we'll talk about what we've experienced and stuff um as we go along, but it's it's interesting staff and and you you hear about this at a lot of haunted locations, they experience stuff during the day. As paranormal investigators, we go in overnight, and sometimes I think is that why we have quiet nights because there's activity in the day, not so much at night, but it's interesting. And I was really trying not to butt in on your history piece with uh with a good with a nice little pun. The moment's probably gone now, but when he's talking about King's Mill being hanged, I was like, No, he's he's toast now, isn't he? He's brown bread. Oh god, it's what we have to deal with. Yeah, good job on just a standard. Um, yeah, but it's interesting you say because um obviously, and I know a little well, I know quite a lot of what you've just said there. There's a lot of stuff I just learned. Didn't know there was two fires. That's interesting.

SPEAKER_02 13:30

Um I literally did I I only found that out through the researcher. I thought there was only one, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:36

Same as me. And and we'll talk about um you know what what a what a previous member K experienced uh as well, and that kind of ties in with the fire, doesn't it? So um no, great, great, great history. Um great history lesson there, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 13:50

Yeah, hopefully some people out there will think, okay, well, I knew of the place, but I didn't know that. You know, that that's what we're kind of aiming for here.

SPEAKER_01 13:56

Another thing as well, just to jump in there, the Royal Oak has I can't tell you what season, but it's certainly in the last two years. Um the Royal Oak has actually featured on the Channel 4 program, Four in a Bed.

SPEAKER_02 14:07

Oh really?

SPEAKER_01 14:08

So um I spoiler it out, I don't think they won. But um but they it was cool, it was cool to see it. It's all since we've been there, it's all been renovated and decorated and stuff. I don't think it's the same owners. Um that's another thing with with the Royal Oak, and I'm sure we'll dive into it. It can't seem to hold down owners, can it? They just keep moving on.

SPEAKER_02 14:28

I think it's also a costs thing as well, because it it costs an awful amount of money to run that place, especially in terms of a hotel and a uh I I think they the the last people that we knew of was that they were trying to change the restaurant into some sort of gastro pub, yeah. You know, fancy dining, that kind of thing. So maybe that didn't work, I don't know. Quite possibly we haven't been there for a while.

SPEAKER_01 14:48

Big place, and we know it's expensive because the cost to hire it, but it was it was well worth it.

SPEAKER_02 14:53

Yeah, what I find particularly interesting knowing all of that now is how much of it lines up with what we've actually experienced at the time of being there. And again, we'll we'll get into that surely. Um we'll get into that shortly.

SPEAKER_01 15:06

Yep, definitely, and and as I said, the fire, especially, and the two fires as well. So yeah, we'll come back to that as we go through the experiences.

SPEAKER_02 15:12

Yeah, I mean the the fires are interesting because there was actually no reported deaths of that fire, but the room the rumour mill was was that someone was trapped into trapped in the building and did actually oh they might not have actually um been killed in the building um by the fire, but they died because of the smoking. Yeah, yeah, and the result of the fire. Yeah. So I think we have that to kind of um to to kind of uh use for what evidence that we've picked up on.

SPEAKER_01 15:43

Absolutely. And just to go back on what you've been saying as well, and I I believe, correct me if I'm wrong, there was a suicide in COVID. I don't know if I I actually tried to look today before coming here, I couldn't actually find a report about it. No, but there was well witnesses, well, people that live local said yeah, there was a there was a suicide.

SPEAKER_02 16:03

Yeah, yeah, I mean we know that for a fact.

SPEAKER_01 16:05

Absolutely, and in a in a specific room as well, which I was meant to stay in. Um again, we'll dive into that as well later on.

SPEAKER_02 16:12

Yeah. So we've been to the Royal Oak three times now. Um the first time was a little different to our usual setup. Um, Dan, do you want to explain how that one came about?

SPEAKER_01 16:21

Yeah, so the pub approached us about helping them run an investigation night for the public. Now we tend not to do these things, um, but this was uh a foot in the door basically for us to prove to the pub, you know, we're a trustworthy group, and like we we really wanted to get in there at the end of the day. So we said to them, if we're gonna run a uh an events night for you, it's not gonna be a traditional we're gonna make like what events companies do, like they try and fake activity allegedly. Um we're not gonna tip tables, we're not gonna make glasses move on the Ouija balls, it's gonna be a real investigation. The public may probably find it very boring. Um, but it turns out it was a really good night, and um ultimately we proved ourselves to the owners or the landlords, and they had us back for a private invest well not a private investigation, but a members only investigation, which we'd normally do with with venues, and it it was really good. Every time we'd been there, it's been pretty good, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 17:13

Yeah, I mean again it's um it's it's another place where we just want to we would like to go back as much as we could possibly do. But it's been a bit of a gap in us trying to get back in there, but you know Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 17:28

And and again, uh where where we mentioned the ownership changes, the landlords changes, we have to reintroduce ourselves, the new people might be reluctant to do so. It's not good for business. Um it is good for business to say you've got they've got a haunted pub, but yeah, we've we've gotta we've got to contact them again and try and try and get in touch and get ourselves back in there.

SPEAKER_02 17:45

Yeah, I mean I don't it's hard to say whether it's actually haunted as such, like you know, like a scary thing. Because it you walk in there, you would never pick up on the fact that that that that the place is haunted, but it's certainly got some energy to it.

SPEAKER_01 18:00

It's got energy and it's certainly not scary, right? Yes, it does. Yeah, absolutely. Like most haunt hauntings, um, they don't tend to be scary, right?

SPEAKER_02 18:09

Just take you by surprise.

SPEAKER_01 18:10

Yes, exactly, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 18:12

Um I think that's how they like it. You get equally scared that way. But I don't think we were ever scared, but I mean, um it kept kept you on your toes, yeah, so to speak, really.

SPEAKER_01 18:23

Kept wanting to go back as well. There's a lot of these places like we touch on about Slow Fort Calverton on the pod, and like there's all you always leave with more questions than answers, and yeah, this is certainly one of them.

SPEAKER_02 18:34

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And and just to be clear that obviously what you were saying as well is that this wasn't an entertainment event, it wasn't us putting on a show or or um yeah, it wasn't a show for putting paying guests, just a genuine investigation that the public were invited to take part in. Case ran it the same way we'd run any investigation. You know, you just like you turn up, split into different groups, and then you explore the building, right? Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 18:59

And I'd argue as well, um, that was probably the least activity we had on the public one. Um some things happened, but yeah, when we went back as just our members only, more stuff happened then. So it kind of shows you. Um and it wasn't many, what was there? Max was probably about twelve members of public. So it wasn't even a lot, was there?

SPEAKER_02 19:22

I can barely remember it to be honest with you.

SPEAKER_01 19:24

So wasn't like some of these events. No, it's not like these events where you have like 40, 50, 60 people, it wasn't a lot at all. Um happy with it. They knew that they knew the drill, they knew it was some of them aboard, uh and and ended up just sitting having a drink in the bar, if you remember. Um but yeah, um, but no, they they yeah, vast majority enjoyed it and um I think they appreciated that it was a real investigation, not not um falsified in any way.

SPEAKER_02 19:51

Yeah, and I remember the feedback from the um the staff of the pub as well, that they were so thrilled to be having a paranormal team in, but they were also loving the fact that they could be involved themselves. Um and that was because they had their own experiences in the building as well, and I think this kind of answered some of their kind of curiosity and maybe some of the uh uh some of the questions that they had in terms of what they have experienced, what they picked up on, and yeah, I guess even what they felt living there.

SPEAKER_01 20:27

So no, definitely, absolutely. Um, but yeah, ultimately it opened the door for us to go back um by having this public one, didn't it? And um which we did. And I think we'll we'll speak about them uh private investigations more.

SPEAKER_02 20:40

The second and third visits were full case investigations, members only, yeah, plus some of the pub staff who wanted to be involved. That's quite different, isn't it, Dan?

SPEAKER_01 20:49

Night and day, really, yes. Uh so when it's just a team, you have complete control. Obviously, we have complete control over the other one, but it's nice not to worry about looking after members of the public and just worrying about ourselves. We don't need to worry about ourselves because we all know our individual roles anyway and how we operate. But uh everyone knows the protocols, uh, everyone knows how to behave in the space, and you can be much more uh methodical um about how you move throughout the building as well.

SPEAKER_02 21:15

Yeah, I mean we covered the whole site, the bar, the cellar, the guest rooms, including the famous room five, the attic room. And I think it's fair to say that the second visit gave us a lot more to uh give us a lot more to talk about.

SPEAKER_01 21:28

A lot more, yes, absolutely. Uh some of it we can explain, some of it we've debunked, uh, and some of it we are still not sure about, hence why we'd love to come back. Royal Oak, uh landlords, if you listen in, drop us an email.

SPEAKER_02 21:41

Yeah, I still think we should just turn up one day and um see what they say. Have a bit of lunch, yeah. Um get a group of us with all the case, you know, equipment and and logos and all that, and they would be like, Who's these guys? Look like a cult.

SPEAKER_01 21:58

Oh gosh, we're gonna get a big case logo. On the side of the car.

SPEAKER_02 22:01

Yeah, yeah. Show everyone in the area with her. Speakers on top of the on top of the roof as well. Case are now in town.

SPEAKER_01 22:09

That's Kenton Southeast Paranormal. Let us let the whole village know.

SPEAKER_02 22:14

Exactly. Yeah, they'll be like history repeating themselves, the gang's back. Uh so

Room 5 - The Attic

SPEAKER_02 22:20

yeah, so let's touch upon room five, the attic, the this for me was like the room, and this is a room that I would happily go back to in a heartbeat. I wouldn't even have to think about it. Mainly because I don't think we're done there. I think very much like Calverdon, there is there is a story that every time we go back, there is something that we are trying to unravel.

SPEAKER_01 22:49

I'd agree.

SPEAKER_02 22:50

And you know, in the attic, you and I we've felt, heard, and we've witnessed things. Um and I mean obviously the start of the night I know that everyone talks, you know, the debunkers are not a big fan of spirit boxes, we totally get it. But I think I said to you years ago that sometimes the spirit box, someone would say my name, yeah, and I've switched it on, and I think I've only just switched it on, and you heard well, we both heard the woman come through and shouting Krabby, Krabby, very clear.

SPEAKER_01 23:33

Um touch on the spirit box. I'm very sceptical on them. Uh a lot of people are, I do believe you're hearing radio um and these responses. Um if that said Graham, I'd be like, coolers, um, radio hosts could be called Graham. Yeah, Krabby is interesting, isn't it? Like many people are gonna be ringing up radio is called Krabby, or why would the word Krabby be said over radio? In that specific moment, it was very interesting. I I couldn't quite believe it. It was the first word. You literally put the spirit box on, dumped your stuff on the bed because that's where you were staying.

SPEAKER_02 24:11

Yeah, yeah, turn the spirit box on as we're standing there, crabby, and it was and bear in mind the the the rapidness of the the the level, I don't know if you want to call it that, that that the spirit box was on. Was it wasn't on slow, where you would hear someone normally the way it's scanning, it's incoherent. Yes, you'd never actually pick up a word because it is scanning FM frequency, but albeit very, very fast.

SPEAKER_01 24:38

You'd get you'd get snippets of words, but this was a full crappy.

SPEAKER_02 24:42

Yeah. Uh which was interesting, and loud and now and a female, which I said to you, it it it doesn't happen all the time, but I think it's happened a good three or four times in different locations. Whether that's someone who clearly wants to be heard who's connected to me, in some shape of the case. I was gonna say it could be connected to you if you I have no idea because I don't know anyone I don't know any young females who are connected to me who are no longer here, unless unless in some weird kind of afterlife thing that older females in my family who have passed away are now young in death.

SPEAKER_01 25:18

You just took the theory straight out of my mouth because I was gonna say, do you remember at Kelverdon last time Laura was aware of a do you mind me talking about this? No, no, no, uh of a female that was looking out for you standing behind you. Do you remember? Yeah, for but um and she I think she said your nan. Could be, yeah. Maybe this is your nan coming through to you over spirit box, a younger version of your nan, maybe. I don't know. I'm just looking for a for an answer or a theory. Um, but possibly.

SPEAKER_02 25:45

I uh yeah, but again, it'd be weird for her to call me Krabby, but then maybe she's using that to get my attention.

SPEAKER_01 25:51

Maybe, yeah, yeah. So you'd think she would use what she would call you Graham, I guess, like not Krabby.

SPEAKER_02 25:57

Yeah, and um I mean she was from Durham, so you know there's a bit of you there were there would have been an accent, but there wasn't on the spirit box. So that was another thing which didn't really connect, you know?

SPEAKER_01 26:09

So it's unlikely, just theories but unlikely. This is what we do. This is uh yeah, we we could talk hours about theories about this, right?

SPEAKER_02 26:16

Yeah, yeah. So just to explain the attic room, we'll try and uh we might be able to find photos and put it up on the pod. I think I might have some, but yeah. So you have the room, um and then the attic is is actually directly next to the room via a door.

SPEAKER_01 26:33

Yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:34

And the attic stretches quite far back to the far end of the building. It goes to the end of the at the end of the roof of the building, basically. Yeah, it's a big space, it's a big space. Um and then we we had a member uh on our group at the time called Kay, and um the story that obviously that we have with her is that what's the one that made the hair stand up basically was Kay described seeing a man and she gave specific details of who she was picking up in the attic of a man and um his face had been disfigured or like he had burns on his skin or the burns on his face. And I'm not sure she probably would have been aware of a fire in the building. I I don't, you know, I I don't know for sure, but I don't think anyone on that second investigation knew that the that there'd been a fire, let alone two, because we didn't know that until not this week.

SPEAKER_01 27:27

Yeah, we we didn't know that. Uh at the time, I don't think none of us would have looked at the history. We we a lot of us tend not to, right? We like to go in blind, but there are people obviously that do know the history to verify stuff. I know for certain there was one person there that night that is very familiar with the building and knew the history. Would he have told her no? Um he doesn't didn't tend to tell anybody uh the history unless somebody asked. So I would I would say she was picking this up uh and it was quite incredible, uh, really. And when she found out, she was quite shocked. Um but yeah, uh was it confirmed it was a man that that died?

SPEAKER_02 28:05

Well that this was another thing, was that this could have been the man that was overcome by smoke in the building. And then died yes, and then and then and then died later on, but but for whatever reason is stuck in that vicinity.

SPEAKER_01 28:19

Yeah, and that's what it felt like. People what people picked up on multiple investigations, someone is stuck. It was like that, wasn't it? Someone is trapped, yes. Yeah. And could explain something else we experienced up there, which we'll we'll come on to in the attic as well. But um, yeah, no, I'd say she had absolutely no idea. Uh she just described what she saw and what she picked up, and um it's pretty incredible.

SPEAKER_02 28:41

Yeah, yeah. I mean, um obviously finding out that there had been two fires at the Royal Oak, that's the kind of thing that you can't you can't script that. Yeah, you you know, you either accept the quant uh you either accept the coincidence of it or you don't.

SPEAKER_01 28:54

Yeah, but while

The Time We Heard Somebody Running Towards Us

SPEAKER_01 28:55

we're on the subject of the attic, let's talk about our experience up there because we had quite an incredible experience. So um it was the second time we were there, right? Or the third might have been the second. It was with me and you were doing a vigil in the attic, uh, well, actually more in the room, uh that in the bedroom rather than the attic space itself. It was really quiet, wasn't it? No devices going off, we couldn't hear anything. Just felt like it was in a silent room, not a lot happening at all. So we decided to move down to the end of the attic, uh, where there was funny enough, there's two sofas down there and a table, wasn't there? Huge space. We've gone down there, calling out, trying to listen out, nothing, right? Absolutely nothing. We even decided, right, let's save batteries on the devices, especially the cameras, switch it all off for a good five or ten minutes. We're talking about football work. Yeah, I remember, yeah. Let's not talk about football at the moment. Um, and yeah, we're talking about all sorts of things, and all of a sudden, and then I firmly believe this wouldn't have happened if the cameras are on, running towards us in the attic, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, getting louder, stopped where we were sitting, and we just both looked at each other like what on earth was that. Look at no one's in the attic with us.

SPEAKER_02 30:13

It didn't sound like it was anyone from below, it was on the floorboards of well it definitely wasn't below because people below who were investigating other rooms actually said, Oh, you guys were having a good time running up there, and we're like, It wasn't us.

SPEAKER_01 30:25

Yeah, absolutely. They come up, they come up to our to room five into the attic and said, Well, you two like be quiet. Yeah, like what are you doing? You're having a party, like, no, what did you hear? And they said, Here we can hear running around.

SPEAKER_03 30:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:36

So we we are sat here on these sofas and we just had this whatever it was run towards us. Absolutely incredible.

SPEAKER_02 30:44

I remember I remember it because obviously it's so prominent when that happens. When something happens like that, you you kind of remember everything that goes on. Yeah, we were stood completely still. I think there were boxes in there at the time, or there were couches that were on their sides, and I think we were just prompt.

SPEAKER_01 31:00

Were we sat down? We were sat down, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:01

I could have sworn that.

SPEAKER_01 31:02

I remember I sat down on the sofa, I legs crossed, and we were just talking about work and football. Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_02 31:08

For some reason I thought we were standing and we were just leaning on against something.

SPEAKER_01 31:11

No, no, we was it we were sitting down. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:13

You you remember it better than I do. But yeah, no, it it it it generated so much attention because people across the the other part of the the building came across because they had heard it. People from below had heard it and came up to kind of see what we were doing, and then yeah, so then there was this kind of meeting of people, and and everyone's like, No way.

SPEAKER_01 31:36

And we were like, Yeah, they come up almost angry at us, yeah, because disturbing what we were doing, disturbing what they were doing, and uh will you be quiet? Like they were annoyed, and I'd as the lead investigators well, I I'm not gonna be running around making noise, disturbing everybody.

SPEAKER_02 31:52

Like, literally, we was we wasn't even investigating, we were just sitting there and and and naturally I've cursed you ever since then for for stopping the recording, even though it was probably my idea to say, should we save battery? And then you went, Yeah, good idea, and then that happened, and I'm like, Why?

SPEAKER_01 32:09

The last time I ever listened to you.

SPEAKER_02 32:10

Um but I'm just like it's lesson learned though.

SPEAKER_01 32:14

I don't literally I just leave cameras like now. We have I I get to venues, as you know, like an hour or two hours early with Laura and now Lucy, who does the baseline readings for us. But I now have purchased a body camera, so as soon as I get out of the car, recalled, bang, I'm recording constantly. Um, and I've learned from that moment because we could have captured something incredible.

SPEAKER_02 32:36

Yeah, I know we could have been given our own TV show after that.

SPEAKER_01 32:40

Um to fast forward on that as well, and again, I think this was the same night, if I remember correctly, but we again was in the attic, there was other people with us. Yeah, um, and do you remember hearing knocking on the door? Oh, yeah. Yeah, and we my rational and sceptical brain, even though nobody owned up to it, is did someone knock on the door not hear us say, Yes, we're in here, if they were coming to investigate in that room, and then they just walked away, maybe. But I believe there's people watching CCTV from the bar area. And again, we can't be sure because we don't know if in that moment they was looking at the cameras, but they they were pretty sure nobody went upstairs towards that room from the moment we entered and before we exited. So that happened, we can't prove it, but yeah, there was certainly a knock, wasn't there, on the door that got our attention.

SPEAKER_02 33:33

Yeah, it was a proper dun dun dun knock on the knock on the door, and I think we actually shouted out, come in. We did, and no one come in. No one came in, yeah. And then that was when you then got up and opened the door and you were like, Yeah, there's no one there. I I don't know if that bit is on camera. I don't I can't remember if if we had a camera on camera.

Debunking The Figure We Captured On Camera

SPEAKER_01 33:49

It is because interestingly, that moment is where we captured the infamous green shape. And was this the second time still, or was this the third time? I can't remember because I think it's the second time because I've I've been three times, and the third time, my last time I went, I remember seeing what the actual shadow was. Okay. So I think it was the second time. So um yeah, but but we that was captured on camera because I remember the clip because we didn't even notice the shadow, right? Until I showed you the whole video, and you said, Did you see this?

SPEAKER_02 34:22

The only reason I saw that was because at the time I had an over 70-inch TV. Yeah. And obviously, when you edit it, you've you're kind of on a 16-inch screen. So I'm watching it home and I'm thinking, what is that? What is that? What what is that green glow? And I remember like taking a picture of it, sending it to the you and the group, and everyone was like, Oh my god, yeah, it does look like a figure. You know, we'll again we'll put the picture up of it, but it it clearly looks like some, you know, like a knight, because it looks like it's got a helmet on, the shoulders. It's crazy, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 34:54

People were pro people probably looking at it now, have got it overlaid, thinking, idiots, have they not noticed what this is? But the the fact is we we put it out onto but actually you won't say idiots until we tell you exactly what it was, but um we put it out on social media as a thing of saying, like, what do you think this is to people? And uh because the comments coming in on it was unbelievable. And uh people saying, I can see a face, I can is it a night, is it this, that, and that? And um the more you looked at it, the more your eyes played tricks and you could see a face. It was perfect paradigm, wasn't it?

SPEAKER_02 35:26

Paradomia kicked in massively because to me it was like we've that's it, we've we've retired. We've done it. I've done and don't need to do no more. Um but uh do you want to reveal exactly what it was? Yeah, so unfortunately it was the reflection off the fire exit light, and it gives a perfect the way the fire light is kind of uh the the bulb of it and the way that it reflects off of that, it actually casts an image onto the wall opposite. It does, and uh sickening doesn't to actually say it.

SPEAKER_01 36:00

It's um pardon pun it's haunted me ever since because every time I go into a toilet in a pub or anywhere, I immediately see this fire exit sign with this green shadow on the wall. This one was remarkably big, right? Because it looked like it was like a bloody figure standing behind me. Yeah, yeah. Uh but yeah, I see it every time now. But this is the beauty of the group, right? Um, one of our team members, again, we got friendly with the landlords and stuff because of the two in for two or three investigations. They allowed us to come in, go to that guest room to try and find out what that was, and that's how we discovered it was the light. And um, if we didn't do that, we'd never know. We'd probably be thinking we could have caught some a figure on camera, but unfortunately it wasn't.

SPEAKER_02 36:42

Yeah, and and and to be honest with you, we the way that where it was, we wouldn't really have normally filmed in and around that area, it was just a little doorway area that that was in passing of when the car when the camera went past. So we weren't really in that area, we just happened to pick it up. But I mean, in other locations that I've done like that with fire exits, nine times out of ten, I'll put a bin bag over with black tape, and then that yeah, you know, because if you're gonna look at doing that, it's probably a good advice.

SPEAKER_01 37:12

It's whether the venues let you do it, that's the problem. They want it's obviously health and safety for them because we need to see the fire exits, but um I know what you mean.

SPEAKER_02 37:20

Get get the um get the permission first, but yeah, that's a little tip.

SPEAKER_01 37:23

Exactly. But no, the attic, um yeah, fantastic, isn't it? Um we've

The Problem With Paranormal Equipment

SPEAKER_01 37:30

had other experiences up there, like with a music box, haven't we, where that was going off on command. I personally don't believe music boxes are a good paranormal tool, and and since that, and and it and I think this immediately explains it because we had two infrared cameras. Apparently, infrared can trigger a music box. Okay. So if you think we're filming, then I wasn't using a static camera, I was just filming with a camcorder. Every time you turn, the infrared can trigger that music box. So I think that depends on it.

SPEAKER_02 37:59

It doesn't walkie talkies trigger it as well, because we had walkie-talkies that were being used at the time.

SPEAKER_01 38:04

I know they certainly affect REM pods. I don't know about music boxes, but this is the problem with equipment, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 38:11

Yeah, they can't it can't be relied on. And obviously, when we turn the equipment off, then we have an experience like we did, and then it just proves sometimes your eyes and ears are just as just as good as anything else. They're the best tools, is your own senses, yeah. 100%.

SPEAKER_01 38:23

Don't start um advice to myself, stop spending hundreds of pounds on paranormal equipment.

SPEAKER_02 38:28

Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes it's good. I mean, you know, it it adds it adds to an entertainment factor of when you do have this stuff to to to kind of use, but again, only if you have the money. I don't think you really need to kind of waste hundreds and hundreds of pounds on on stuff.

SPEAKER_01 38:45

You don't. For me, you just need for me personally, and what I've learnt over the years, yeah, just a camera. Um yeah, camera, decent microphone if you want to pick up EVPs uh and your own senses, that's all you need.

SPEAKER_02 38:58

Yeah. Especially if you're just starting out, maybe you're just watching this and getting an understanding of what goes on in an investigation. It it's like fishing, as I've said before. Just take yourself there, your eyes and ears, and then you know, maybe you've got um uh di uh a a digital voice recorder which is even your phone.

SPEAKER_01 39:18

Yeah, even your voice. Your phone's got a voice recorder on it. We picked up the um spoiler alert when we do the uh uh investigate the the the episode on the investigation at the cinema we did at the old Havana Club. Spoiler alert, we caught that amazing scribbling on an iPhone app, like the voice memo app. Crazy. But one thing I do want to add in there, one of the really just to go back on equipment and how important using your own senses is I, as I just mentioned, I used to literally walk around on investigations holding a handheld cam called uh, and that was really I was focusing on filming so much I was just a bit withdrawn from the actual investigations, so that's why now it's a static cam. And now, since doing that, my senses I I just experience more things, let's say, um, without it. So, yeah, certainly your own senses are better than equipment, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_02 40:09

I mean, obviously, I went back, I

Crabby's Experiences at The Royal Oak

SPEAKER_02 40:11

don't know, I can't remember if I went back a third time or the fourth time. I the first one.

SPEAKER_01 40:14

It would have been the fourth because I wasn't with you all the last time.

SPEAKER_02 40:17

Right. So that that was a few years ago, and um again, it was an interesting um investigation. This was um a a public event that was um through somebody else, and then I I went on my on my own, but there was a couple of other members of um KPS that um that went that went there as well. And um, yeah, there was uh um did a spirit box session in the in the bar and three or four times it you know, we were saying how how many spirits are here in the building, and it clearly said five. Everybody heard it.

SPEAKER_01 40:54

Um an instant response of five, right?

SPEAKER_02 40:57

Instant report, yeah, instant. And um again, the the speed of the the frequency that it was going through, you know, it were we hear the it's always this thing of like you know, in your brain you're you're waiting to hear a number, but there was probably six or seven around this table that that were doing the spirit box session, and where everyone said they heard the same thing, right?

SPEAKER_01 41:18

Yeah, I was gonna say because if it's just you, could it be audio paradigm because you're because your brain's obviously wired to try and find a pattern, or but yes, I've but multiple people here in five, pretty cool.

SPEAKER_02 41:30

And um one of the guys who's not part of the team anymore, he was doing scrying in the mirror, and he completely submerged himself to the point where he was doing it for maybe a good solid five, ten minutes. And I'm calling his name and he's just not responding. And I'm like, and and I've I've said his name like five, six times. I'm like, is he deaf? So I've actually I've actually grabbed him and he's jumped, he's physically gave him a heart attack. Yeah, so he's literally like a real he's jumped, he's jumped out of it, yeah, you know, and he was sweating, and uh in a trance, yeah. He he he was completely locked in in one of these mirrors in the rooms, and I thought, oh, that was odd.

SPEAKER_01 42:15

But uh I've never given scrying a go, I don't think. Don't think I've ever done it. I've seen people do it. Again, I don't know if I'm a big believer in it.

SPEAKER_02 42:23

So scrying, if you're not too sure what scrying is, is basically where you would just look into a mirror and uh yeah, you just stare in the mirror and everything behind you changes, perhaps uh you know the perception of everything changes.

SPEAKER_01 42:39

Even your features, right? The facial features are meant to change. So this is where I have a problem with it. Um I believe if you're staring, your eyes are just gonna start playing tricks. Things are gonna move. If I'm staring at you right now, things are just gonna change in the peripheral, right? Um so again, I I haven't done it myself, so I'm not I'm not gonna say, Oh, it's I'm not gonna debunk it all, but I I've just got a few scientific issues.

SPEAKER_02 43:05

It's your eyes playing tricks. I mean, there's times where I I've done it and I've completely disappeared out of the mirror. Um but that's because that's a mirror fall over. No. No, it because you're staring at s at one space in less light as well, you you naturally just disappear, and then that's when people say their face changes, the location, you know, the the uh like the reflection in the background has changed and altered and they see things, but too many scientific factors for me.

SPEAKER_01 43:39

But um but it's it'll be different if somebody is not it is observing it and they can see changes. Yeah. Um for me, as long as they're not staring, if they're just watching it, it's just normal, and then they can see features changing in the mirror, then something interesting.

SPEAKER_02 43:54

I have seen that where people have said, Oh yeah, I can see your faces changing and all that, but again, like you know, you're you're Doing it in you're not doing it in a lit room.

SPEAKER_01 44:02

Yeah, exactly. You're again their eyes are gonna be playing tricks and trying to find patterns as well. Absolutely. Needs to be caught on camera for this. Yes. Yeah, 100%. Um, so I have had

The Man In The Bar and Dan's Lone Vigil In The Pub

SPEAKER_01 44:12

a one particular experience in the bar area there. It was on the first time we were there, a few of us again sat there not really investigating. We're sat around in the bar area on a table, and we just sort of you can put this down to temperature drop, rising, dropping, whatever, I guess dropping because it's late at night. But it sounded like on one of the bar stools someone had sat down. You know, you hear that creak, or they'd got off the bar stool, and it's really weird. It all grabbed our we it all grabbed our attention, and we were just like looking like, Did you just hear that? It's like someone literally just sat down or got up. So that that was interesting. But I did have the opportunity. And the last time I went, because I actually stayed, and I know you did as well, you stayed in the attic. I stayed in a room um for the night. I didn't sleep comfortably, it took me a while to get to sleep. I will say that, although nothing nothing happened. But I had um the opportunity to do a lone vigil around the whole pub. He was going to join me, but he was too tired and went to bed. Um, so I I I did a lone vigil. Um, I actually recorded it, it is on YouTube somewhere. Um different when you're on your own, you know, you feel a bit more vulnerable, and there's all them factors as well. But it was quite quiet. Um, the bar was pretty quiet. Um, and I was expecting a little bit more. I could hear I could hear the odd noises of like, you know, like the dishwashers on in the cellar and stuff like that. That's the only thing it was contaminating, but it felt a lot different. It was really quiet, and I was quite surprised. Um I went into the kitchen as well, that was cool. So I don't think we actually investigated the kitchen.

SPEAKER_02 45:45

No, I don't think we were allowed in there, to be honest, at that time. Well, um, I went in the kitchen. You were allowed because you had the permission afterwards, but I think during the investigation itself, because they were kind of still doing stuff in there that we it wasn't accessible at that point.

SPEAKER_01 46:00

Yeah, absolutely. Um, and again, very quiet, did hear the odd noise, but it's all metal stuff and fridges and these tings uh I put it down to all of that. Uh the function room as well. I went down to the function room where um beforehand we had heard we'd caught a shadow figure on camera. It was Jason when he was with us, he caught a shadow figure on camera um and never got to the bottom of what that was, so I went down there, tried to get the same thing because it was there's always a feeling. Do you remember there was two bars in the function room? There's always a feeling something was behind the bar. I didn't feel much on my own. It was it was it was interesting. Um, but it was but I I guess what I'm trying to say is really cool to be able to do a lone vigil around there, and um yeah, but it was very late at night. Would pubs be active that late, three, four in the morning? No. So that's probably why there was no activity for me.

SPEAKER_02 46:51

It's interesting that you say about the creaking of a stall, like so someone sat down or got up. There are stories of of people that had died that have been seen like they they're in from the local area, so they're from her or Hawkhurst, they've passed away, but they've been seen sitting at the the one of the tables of the butt.

SPEAKER_01 47:14

Oh wow, I didn't know that. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 47:16

Yeah, so that that was said to me by people that have kind of left the group now, but that was one of the factors of that someone had saw so seen this particular guy. Uh he he he had not long passed, but he was seen sitting at the same table of the uh uh in the bar during the day.

SPEAKER_01 47:34

During the day during the bar, okay. Well there you go, activity during the day. That's uh what we've said in this episode already. But interesting.

SPEAKER_02 47:41

No, I didn't know that, so that's that's that's quite um not everyone saw him, it was it was seen by um people that would that were either kind of walking past the pub or they had seen him momentarily from another um you know across the way. Yeah, yeah. They weren't sat directly near him or in the same vicinity as him, it was kind of looking looking across or looking through, and then they could see him at the table.

SPEAKER_01 48:08

And for him to be a regular as well, then that obviously grabbed their attention. It wasn't just a lot of people.

SPEAKER_02 48:12

I don't know, I I can't remember his name now, which obviously people go, yeah, of course you of course you can't. But um I guess it's quite recently wouldn't want to name him anyway. Well, yeah, but people knew he was from Hawkerst because he'd he'd he you know he resided there and he drank in the pub and you know, yeah, and he wasn't know that, so that's really that's quite well, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 48:31

Does that tally up with my here in the store creek?

SPEAKER_02 48:35

That's what got me thinking. Yeah, I didn't I didn't actually know if you knew that story on that. No, I didn't, so that no, very interesting, absolutely. So obviously from the bar

Dead Bodies In The Cellar

SPEAKER_02 48:44

um comes the cellar, which are obviously very, very close to one another. And I remember the the cellar, it's a classic because every pub investigation involves a cellar at some point. Yeah, but this one had something to it. I mean, the the the stairs, for example, very narrow from what I remember. It must have banged my head.

SPEAKER_01 49:06

Narrow seat, yeah, no ceiling. No, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 49:09

If you're six foot five, it'd be a nightmare for you. You know, it's horrible. It's just yeah, it's it's a place where you know it's uh it's got an eerie feeling to it. And I again I think you know, like I said to you about the history, is that it it is the oldest part of the building, it's still got architecture from from back in the day, so maybe that's got something to do with it.

SPEAKER_01 49:33

There's all uh something I just remembered as you were talking about that. There's also, do you remember there's a hidden room, they believe, that is it would be under the bar, but there's a hidden room at a at the cellar level, basically. Okay. Um again, we don't know what's in there, but apparently on the plans or the blueprints and whatnot, there's a room there that's not been dug out or something. But so that that'll be interesting to find out more about that. But I guess didn't want to either have that. Looking at the history um of what you've been researching, obviously nothing's come up about that, but we were told on the night that yeah, there's meant to be hidden room there. So it'd be interesting to find out what that's about as well.

SPEAKER_02 50:07

Well, apparently there used to be tunnels as well, but then over the course of time tunnels have collapsed and and but again, there probably would have been a tunnel that interlinked all of these places together back in the day. Absolutely, yeah. You know, especially um with it being three cottages, you you can imagine that maybe it was a tunnel that was linked to all three buildings. Yeah, yeah. And then they were you were able to go up to sellers within those three buildings, so maybe that's got something to do with it.

SPEAKER_01 50:33

Yeah, absolutely. But um, yeah, so from what I remember of the seller, several of the team reported a strong sense of uh a strong presence down there. Um and again, we're in multiple groups, right? And I think we even had three different groups instead of our usual two, and I I think all three felt a strong presence down there, especially the more in-tuned guys, I guess. Um it was enough though for it to be noticed. Um, there are a couple of people who didn't want to stay down there. Um I did set up a static camera down there, but you had your traditional, it was too much noise contamination for me because again, there's like uh you've got all the drinks down there, you've got fridges and uh uh and all that lot.

SPEAKER_02 51:12

But um Yeah, I remember the noise of it, it's quite noisy because obviously you can't switch stuff off there because it's freezers and and and machinery that needs to be operated, like operating on 24-7.

SPEAKER_01 51:23

Exactly. And there's also um I don't know what you'd call this, is it like a chute or something? Yeah, there was bodies thrown down that, wasn't there? Yeah uh back in the day. So there was just dead bodies down there at one point. It's uh it's it's crazy. So no wonder it feels eerie, right?

SPEAKER_02 51:39

Yeah, it probably would have been an old cellar door from from from the outside in inwards, you know.

SPEAKER_01 51:44

It would have been one of those that probably would be um barrels down now.

SPEAKER_02 51:48

Barrels, coal, bodies, bodies, one everything. Um apparently someone was touched down there as well, I believe. I I'm I'm not too sure on that.

SPEAKER_01 51:59

Yes, it rings a bell, I think it might have been K again, actually. Um I think two people were. It was two two women. I know that they were touched. Um near where that the barrel, what do we call it? Is it a barrel uh a chute, wherever the body place, uh the dead where the dead bodies were, they got touched uh there. So um yeah, it so only seems to touch women. Um but yeah, it's um yeah, I think that happened over two investigations. It happened multiple times on the different on the different nights we were there as well. So that was that was quite compelling. Yeah, so so for me, you can always this is why it's great to have static cameras down there, and unfortunately it wasn't in shot because we could have ruled out if anyone brushed past the the girls or anything like that, it could have been their own clothing falling from you know, if it's just tucked up or folded, it could have just felt uh it was quite breezy down in the in there, so that's a that's a strong possibility as well. But but in the moment they felt like they were touched, and you know, you yeah, you I wouldn't say you've got to be careful with that because you can't be harmed, but um, it's obviously uncomfortable for the people that have experienced that.

SPEAKER_02 53:07

But it's quite claustrophobic in there as well, so you can probably you know think that you've been touched where maybe you've just brushed, you know, you're so small of a space that you might have just brushed something and not and not known it.

SPEAKER_01 53:19

Absolutely, and uh in that moment, yeah, you're as much as you want to think rationally, it could be a scary moment, right? Um but if the person when the person is clear-headed and specific about what they specific about what they felt, especially with multiple witnesses, you do take note of it.

SPEAKER_02 53:35

And that takes us to the cursed room.

The Cursed Room

SPEAKER_02 53:38

I mean uh cursed room. We're call the cursed room, sorry. We're calling it the cursed room, and look, I know that sounds dramatic, but there are reasons for it, right?

SPEAKER_01 53:47

Yeah, there's multiple accounts of guests who stayed in the room that have had troubled experiences, um, you know, not just feeling uneasy but genuinely disturbed stays. It always seemed to attract people, from what we've been told by the landlord and and whatnot, it always seemed to attract people that are having problems in their life. So, you know, there was a story of uh a man that was needed to get his kids away from the family, and um they were put in this specific room, it just seemed to attract people with problems. Um and they were just saying it's like a yeah, it's a cursed room. Like every no, there's not normal people don't normal people don't seem to go in there. Um I was booked in that room the night we stayed, but an incident happened where someone had to stay in there, so it wasn't no longer available for me. But um yeah, people check out early. That was a report as well. Um I think cleaners might have not liked that room specifically. This room was allegedly where the suicide took place. Um if that was during COVID, I don't know, but there was certainly a suicide in that room. So troubled room, cursed room. That's why they that's why they called it the cursed room.

SPEAKER_02 54:59

Yeah, and that has obviously got a more of a serious history to it as well. I mean, there are generally diff different atmospheres in each of those rooms where you could just open the door, one would feel normal, you go into another one, you go, hmm, something feels off in the air, you know. Yeah, the attic, for for example, is one of them.

SPEAKER_01 55:16

I think uh Ricky might have said it on an earlier episode where it's like you know, when you walk in and you can tell somebody's had an argument, it you just feel that, and uh that that's what it feels like.

SPEAKER_02 55:27

I think with a room like that you have to kind of be respectful above all else. Not you're not there to sensi uh sense you're not there to sensationalise it, you're there to understand it.

SPEAKER_01 55:40

Yeah, absolutely, and um yeah, this is my problem, but obviously if you've got this is a this is the thing with a group like ours, we yeah, we'll go in there, we're respectful, we'll sit there. If we generally believe it's quiet, doesn't feel like anything's there, we'll just leave it alone, you know, and and tell the truth. Where this is actually this is when you hear these stories of a room like this, this is where you can see TV companies like rubbing their hands, like, yes, we've got a cursed room, let's just play on this, but no, we're not like that at all. And um yeah, you just gotta respect every location and every room, right? That you that you go in.

SPEAKER_02 56:13

And I remember saying

Crabby's Preconceptions

SPEAKER_02 56:15

to you before one of these investigations that I'd had a dream where I saw some lady in one of the hallways of the ho of of the hotel park, lady in a white dress was all kind of like floaty by one of the mirror uh by one of the windows, which I thought was quite odd to pick up on.

SPEAKER_01 56:35

You well, you can I I remember you telling me about that before we went and um yeah, and you and you still talk about it to this day, that that's still a vivid image in your mind, right?

SPEAKER_02 56:48

Yeah, um it was so vivid that I wrote it down and then I I told you, I think I told yourself, I don't know if I told anyone else of what I had uh had picked up on. Um again, I don't claim to be uh a medium or anybody who has psychic abilities or anything like that, but I have very strange dreams of places that I've either been to or I'm going to. Yeah. I don't research a place before I go to it. I I kind of like I guess I kind of talk to myself about okay, I'm going to this place, um give me information and then I'll go to bed. And then not all the time that I'll have something happen, but over the course of maybe a few weeks beforehand of going, I'll get snippets and I'll do the same thing again for our next investigation next month.

SPEAKER_01 57:41

Yeah, and uh it happened this year, right?

SPEAKER_02 57:44

Yeah, uh for the cinema.

SPEAKER_01 57:45

Yeah, so do you want me to explain? Do you want to explain it?

SPEAKER_02 57:48

Um yeah, so I I'd had a dream that that in the in the dream there was a changing room and it's it's so stupid. It was like a a long changing room, it was dark, but it was underwater, so it was like a you know, maybe a foot or two of water, it was just a flooded room, right? Didn't make any sense, but again I wrote it down and I told did I tell you and the others or was it?

SPEAKER_01 58:19

You drove to mine and then we travelled from my house. You told us in the car about it. Um the best thing about this is I knew of this because it was a it was a risk hazard for us. Don't go down into this specific area because it's flooded. I knew about it, didn't tell anybody else. At the time, I'm the only one with access to these emails. So when you said about it, I was like, I know I haven't told you about this.

SPEAKER_02 58:42

I know so um I didn't know I didn't know anything about the place. I had no idea of what it was, what I was going to, what it used to be, what it was used for, that kind of thing. So yeah, I kind of freaked myself out at that point because I stupidly didn't even go. I I should have spent time in that area, but I actually didn't.

SPEAKER_01 58:59

So we couldn't walk down anyway, could we?

SPEAKER_02 59:02

Just to sit on the stairs or the top level, I could have done some calling out, but yeah, I kind of feel like it was an opportunity missed there, but never mind. But yeah, it's very strange how um you can have visions of places, um yeah, especially in your dreams, or you know, maybe you're opening yourself up in some spiritual kind of way.

SPEAKER_01 59:25

And as you were just describing that about the woman that you saw in a dream, um could that have been the woman shouting your name on the spirit box? Well, that's it.

SPEAKER_02 59:33

We didn't actually see any women a ghostly woman or anything like that, but that's not to say that she's not there. No, no, I I've never seen for what I saw, like a kind of floaty kind of you know, lady in a white dress, I've never actually kind of seen an apparition, obviously, like that.

SPEAKER_03 59:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 59:50

Um, not not to say that I'm not open to it, because I am, but um, yeah, there was nothing there in that building. But I was just gonna go just to say back to the attic, was that when I when you were doing your lone vigil, I don't know if you remember that I told you that I was only I was only asleep for two hours in that room and I was woken up by another female voice. Now it I don't know what it was saying, but if you know the noise that when you go to a swimming pool, the echoey nature of a swimming pool, the noise of a swimming pool, it was very much like that, and it was someone was talking to me as I was sleeping, right? And I was as you say, I was so tired, but it woke me up because uh of the noise that was being generated in that room, and it woke me up to the point where I'm like, What is that? Because it it was like so loud and so echoey that yeah, it just it disturbed me from my sleep, and I did not sleep well at all that night.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:54

Did you after you woke up, did you hear it still, or was it just in your night?

SPEAKER_02 1:01:00

I did I didn't hear anything, but there was a notion of that that I wasn't alone in the room.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:05

Right, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:06

And then that made it a really awkward night's sleep to kind of get back to sleep and then and then not feel like I was knackered the next day because it was just such an uncomfortable night's sleep.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:16

Yeah, yeah, I didn't sleep well either that night, but um but nothing happened. I I think I I think personally I was just I find this with investigations when I go home, even though it's so tiring, like you do 12 hours, well, 10 hours at Kelverdon or whatever it is, 12 hours for me. Uh I go home, I'm just buzzing still, so I just generally can't sleep. But uh yeah, that would um certainly make your night uncomfortable, wouldn't it?

SPEAKER_02 1:01:38

It was like someone was talking to me, just talking, but the background noise of it was was like they were shouting because there was so much background noise as well. And I think it was maybe just just trying to generally get my attention.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:51

Was it a female? Did you say it?

SPEAKER_02 1:01:52

Yeah, it was a female voice again, yeah. And I I don't and do you know what? I don't know if this w was linked to the person that recently had committed suicide during COVID. It could have been a coincidence, but um I think it was um that energy that was trying to come through. That's just my opinion on it.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:12

Interesting because the alleged suicide didn't happen in that room, but if it sounded distant and echoey, maybe it was a call from the room. Yeah. Uh you don't know. It's one of these things, isn't it? We'll never know. Um no, I mean the they could just be milling around. Could have just been a dream. Yeah, could have been dream. Don't ruin it for me. But it could be, right? It could just be you dreaming and you wake up like what the hell happened?

SPEAKER_02 1:02:38

But you're very stimulated before you go to bed after an investigation as well. So everything is heightened, so you know it takes ages to to relax and come down from it. Absolutely. So I think obviously that kind

Unfinished Business

SPEAKER_02 1:02:50

of wraps up really the royal oak. We've been a number of times. Definitely needs a full visit, would you say?

SPEAKER_01 1:02:58

Yeah, I would say there's unfinished business. Um areas that weren't fully I think we fully investigated areas, like all areas, probably not so much the kitchen, but areas of interest. It would be good to go back. It's a large building. It'd be it'd be good to have um like 48 hours in somewhere like this, right? So you can just cover spend a good quality time in each area. Um has anything changed at the location that might want warrant a return? Have they discovered that hidden room and what's in there, for instance? Yeah. I don't know. Um but yeah, it's certainly certainly worth a revisit, I think.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:36

Yeah, and and for me, obviously, room five, the attic, I don't think we're done there. I 100% agree. Yeah. I I still the time that you didn't go, I was in the attic. I still believe that there that energy is still in there. Kind of heard, didn't hear the running, but I definitely heard something in there. And you know, there there's so much that's gone on in that room. I want to dig further into it. I'm sure you do, and I'm sure people kind of hearing this will be like, okay, yeah, I'm I'm I'm game for that. Um and obviously with more context now about the fires plural makes you even want to kind of go back with that knowledge and see if anything else changes.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:15

Absolutely, and for me with the Attic as well, that the running is probably the best Is it the best for a claim it?

SPEAKER_02 1:04:24

Yeah, probably the best thing I've I've experienced, I guess, because audio-wise, absolutely, but then I've heard footsteps as well, and that and and and the footsteps is great, but running that's a different kind of thing. Running was unbelievable.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:35

And as well, I don't think we I I was just thinking about it as you were talking, we didn't mention we it couldn't have been outside. No. Um, because you know attic spaces, it's not like as insulated as um inside well in in the other rooms. There's no noises outside, was there? There was you in fact you could hear if there was people outside, but it was dead quiet. Um and as well, there was no it was too heavy to be rodents, the footsteps. Yeah, there was no sign of rodents up there either. So there's a I generally couldn't debunk it.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:06

Some people might say, you know, is it an owl running across the roof? I don't think so.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:11

That's a big quick owl as well, you know, to look at it.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:14

Or a crow, but then like, you know, it it's it's it's not. We know it's not, but people will question it either way because it was inside the building. We have to make that quite clear. It was inside the footsteps were so prominent next to us and loud that we know that it was.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:30

It wasn't just inside the building, it was inside the room. It was it was right next to us. I think it's easy because I'm I'm one to do this, it's easy to sit down, it could have been this, that, that, and that. But I think when you experience it and you're there, you can't change my mind that that wasn't something running up towards whatever it was, something run up towards us. That's what it that's what it seemed like.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:49

It's yeah, just a shame that the cameras weren't running.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:52

Absolutely. And as well to go back to cellar as well, is another thing, you know. Did did the did them girls get touched in the Yeah, um it it it again there's yeah it's probably somewhere I didn't spend most time in the cellar, but there was too much noise for me. But it'll be good to spend a bit more time down there. It'd be good if we can switch stuff off. You never know. But um yeah, but it it'll be good to try and rule out the touching sensation, could it have been breezes and whatnot? Yeah, so the cellar for me as well.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:20

The Royal Oak as as a location has always been really welcoming to us. The the staff have their own experiences, they're generally interested in what we were doing and what we've done in the past. And I think that relationship matters as well. And you know, if if you are watching this and you're now the new landlords or or people that live at at um the Royal Oak, then you know, can we come back please?

SPEAKER_01 1:06:45

Absolutely, yes. We we would definitely come back. Whether that's um something you know, we'd prefer a solo case investigation, but if it's something you want to do in conjunction with a pub again, um absolutely, but we're not done with the Royal Oak, are we?

SPEAKER_02 1:06:58

I mean, obviously if these are new landlords as well, they might not even been aware that that that we've been there before. And they might be experiencing stuff right now and you know, without sounding cliche with you know the Ghostbusters, but you know, who you're gonna call? Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:16

Um yeah, absolutely, I'd love to go back. Let's hope, let's hope, let's hope for an uh we'll get the opportunity to.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:23

Yeah, I guess it's what's this space, right? And Ricky, if you're listening to this on the beach somewhere, you'll come in next time to it. No excuses. No excuses at all.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:35

Non-negotiable.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:36

Although he does find excuses. Oh, I know he does. Especially last minute. I know he does. Anyway, he'll be back for the next episode, unless you give him another holiday.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:49

Well, I quite enjoyed this, so maybe we'll just uh you know send him away again. Yeah, well, you know free parking at his house.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:56

Yeah, it does work out quite well. I mean, obviously.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:58

He doesn't know I found the spare key as well and gone in, made a coffee, and you know cleared his cupboards.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:04

Everything that was on the ground is now on the ceiling. Exactly. Yeah, good luck, good luck with that. Glued. But then that is it for episode five of the case files. Um, thank you so much for listening at home. This one has been a lot of fun to record, and obviously the Royal Oak is a location I think you're gonna hear about again in future episodes. And um, yeah, anything you want to say?

SPEAKER_01 1:08:28

No, just a huge thanks to the Royal Oak. Of course, like yeah, we don't know if it's the same owners there at the minute. Uh, thank you for having us um for the multiple times we've been there and to the staff for being a part of what we do. Uh, if you're local and haven't visited, go for a pint, go for a meal. Uh maybe ask which room you're staying in first. Um yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:48

Ask to stay in the attic room if you can. It's it's it it's an experience. Room five. No five, yeah, absolutely. And if you've enjoyed this episode, then please subscribe on YouTube, follow us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or Amazon Music, and leave us a review. Uh, share it with someone who loves this stuff, and uh, we'll see you on the next one.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:07

Stay curious, and Rick, when you're back, mate. We've got a lot to catch up on.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:13

Indeed. And we have been the case files. Thank you for joining us. We'll see you on the next one. Cheers.