The Sceptic In The Room - Matt's Story

Crabby is joined for the first time by KASE's longest serving member Matt. Ricky is still away, so Matt steps in to tell his first paranormal experience, the first figure he saw and discusses his sceptical views and the science that could explain paranormal experiences.

The guys discuss private investigations and the type of character required on a private case.

About KASE Paranormal

KASE Paranormal is a private paranormal investigation team based in Kent, established in 2007. We support households and families experiencing unexplained activity with an evidence-led, grounded approach.

Website: https://www.kaseparanormal.co.uk

Private Investigations: https://www.kaseparanormal.co.uk/private-investigations

Contact: https://www.kaseparanormal.co.uk/contact-us

Transcript

Intro

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Fort Amherst. Um so for those people that aren't familiar with Fort Amherst, it's a Napoleonic fortress, 18th century, built to defend Chatham Dockyard. And I'm sitting at a slight angle, so I've got everybody else over here, and I've got the door in my peripheral vision. And I saw somebody in my peripheral vision approach the door, stop and stand in it, so they were silhouetted. Remember dark in this room, a slight light in the tunnel outside, and then they were gone. And it's made me turn my head to look because I've expected someone to be there. And I remember stopping the group saying something, you know, to the effect of Christ, did anyone see that? And then I've got up and gone to the door and looked left and right. And of course, there's nobody there, as is the tradition of every paranormal encounter. And then the next thing is, well, is everyone in this room? Yes, everyone was in the room. So in theory, everybody was in front of me, more or less in front of me to the side of me. And that's really my only other encounter I've had since I've been part of this. Um that I can't easily explain without applying a bit of science. I think my explanation is, and I guess this is where I come in as the cynic of the group, is infrasound is quite a big thing, I think, in our world. I think it could arguably explain a lot. But you know, that there's been a lot of work gone on there to sh to try to show that infrasound affects how people feel when they go into those tunneled spaces, and one of the things it affects is peripheral vision.

Matt Introduces Himself

SPEAKER_00 2:20

Who on earth approved that annual leave? I mean, honestly. Uh so yeah, joining me in our co-host hot seat today is one of Casey's long-serving member Matt. Welcome to the show. Thank you, Krabby. And not only are you the co-host today, but also you happen to be our special guest for today's episode as well. So, uh, how do you feel about sitting in Ricky's seat today and the one being interviewed?

SPEAKER_02 2:43

Well, that's fine.

SPEAKER_00 2:43

I mean, it's a bit damp if this is Ricky's seat, but I'm sure we can clean up. Yeah, he is quite a damp guy. Um sorry, Ricky. Love you, Ricky. Yeah, we love you really. So before we get into it today, just a quick word for the people that have already kind of liked and followed and uh showed your support to us through the comments and everything since we've launched the show. It's been really uh um a really good response from everyone, been very positive, and obviously we're thrilled about that. Um, it's also been great to see so much engagement across all various social media platforms and uh also for those who have subscribed as well. Thank you. And if you're new to the channel or perhaps you're still kind of figuring us out, please remember to like, hype, and subscribe to our channel and even better share to your friends and family. So uh Ricky usually does this bit, but he's currently sitting by a pool somewhere drinking a pina colada, listening to our previous episodes, no doubt. So, Matt, you're sitting in his chair. Uh, do you want to do the honours and introduce yourself?

SPEAKER_02 3:48

Yeah, I can do, thank you. Um, so Matt Austin, been with the group now. I was wrecking my brain's on the way here. I think I might be a little bit before you with the original group. So about 2015, I think. Maybe a bit before, but anyway. I've been doing this for a little while now. Um by day I'm legally trained, so a lawyer, although I don't necessarily do lawyery stuff all day long. But uh yeah, by day, work as a consultant in the weekends. I'm a dad to a three-year-old, so that very much keeps me busy. And this is obviously one of my not a side hustle, that's not right because I don't get paid for it, but side side hobby. Um, something that's interested me for a very long time.

Crabby's Quirky Questions

SPEAKER_00 4:30

To start every show, we have a little segment that you may or may not enjoy, and it's called Krabby's Quirky Questions. We're working on a jingle still, but I think I was thinking in the car actually, I was thinking, what about if we got Pauline quirk? To just say Krabby's Quirky Qu or in an it was it Essex kind of you know, Krabby's Quirky Questions, something like that.

SPEAKER_02 4:55

Birds of a feather style, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:56

Yeah, I don't I don't know why I thought of that.

SPEAKER_02 4:58

I'm not sure we can afford Pauline quirk, but yeah, give it a go.

SPEAKER_00 5:02

That's what I'm saying, like the jingle in the future though. Um so uh no doubt, Matt, you've probably watched everyone else's so far and kind of cringed and squirmed, but now it's your turn. Are you ready? I'm ready to cringe and squirm, yes. Cool, right. Well you've already touched upon your occupation, so that rules that one out. But what's your star sign?

SPEAKER_02 5:21

I'm Gemini.

SPEAKER_00 5:22

Not sure whether two Geminis in one room is gonna work.

SPEAKER_02 5:26

Well, it's the twins, so technically two of us, we're we're meeting that Gemini requirement right now, I think.

SPEAKER_00 5:31

That's right. Well, obviously, if we uh buy into that whole process. Um your favourite paranormal location to date?

SPEAKER_02 5:38

Um you'll blame me, this is a tough one. I think it's probably Kelverdon, mixed with a bit at Fort Fort Amherst, as you're probably here today.

SPEAKER_00 5:45

Yeah, Celverdon is one of those locations that keeps cropping up with everybody uh so far. It's divisive, isn't it, Celverdon?

SPEAKER_02 5:54

It's it's just like nowhere else. Yeah. It's a bit like the uh I would say Venice is like nowhere else. So I'd say Celverdon is the paranormal destination. I've not been. It's the Venice version. Okay, you've got to go there, I think.

SPEAKER_00 6:07

Yeah, well, yeah, I've been to Calvidon more than I have Venice, so maybe I'll go to Venice.

SPEAKER_02 6:11

Also somewhere that's equally very haunted.

SPEAKER_00 6:13

Oh really? Good for an investigation in the future, maybe. Okay. Well yeah, bear that in mind. Expensive. It's also sinking, isn't it? Is it going underwater? Better get there quick, then. Yeah, yeah, might have to do it like underwater investigation, are they right? Uh last time you got genuinely scared.

SPEAKER_02 6:29

Last time, uh probably when I opened the uh the final letter from my Sister on my divorce and saw the final bill. Yeah. It's pretty scary.

SPEAKER_00 6:37

I can imagine, yeah. That's not fun at all. Um biggest pet peeve?

SPEAKER_02 6:42

Um I think someone else already had this, uh, but lateness. I think it might have been Ricky, but it's one of my pet peeves as well. It's uh I hate being late. I I was brought up to be early by my grandfather, we were everywhere early. Um and if other people are late, fine, life happens. But when people are late and they don't apologise for it, I think that's always a bit disrespectful.

SPEAKER_00 7:05

Yeah, I've noticed as well recently that like job interviews, the you the person interviewing turns up late. Yeah, yeah. And you're 15 minutes early. I'm like, Yeah, what's going on?

SPEAKER_02 7:15

But we've got to be careful not to do hip rubbias. We are two of the older members of the group. I mean, I'm I'm nearly 45. Um, so we don't want to become the moony odd sods, do we? It's uh where we just moan about the youth of today.

SPEAKER_00 7:26

That's right. It's very easy to do. Yeah, absolutely. We could we we could go off. I can slip into that very easily. Like two old gits, yeah. Um favourite holiday destination other than Venice.

SPEAKER_02 7:39

Oh well, that that is my favourite holiday destination, so you've kind of stolen that from me, really. Other than Venice Sorrento, but you're probably getting an Italy theme. I love Italy. Right. Of the culture, love the history.

SPEAKER_00 7:48

Again, I've never been to Italy. I've been to Rome Airport, this is as much as I've seen. So um yeah, I'll go back to it.

SPEAKER_02 7:54

Rome Airport, not so hot, but if you leave the airport.

SPEAKER_00 7:59

Uh bit of a random one. Marvel or DC? Neither. Neither.

SPEAKER_02 8:03

No, I've I've I've had the Disney Channel for years. I don't think I've even opened up the Marvel tab and looked at what's on it. Just doesn't interest me. Uh there's probably a lot of people booing at the screen right now, but do you know what? I can live with that.

SPEAKER_00 8:14

I thought that was a really good question as well. It's a good question.

SPEAKER_02 8:16

If I had to pick, if you force my hand, because I guess I'm a bit more in the kind of Batman camp, as someone child of the eighties, Tim Burton, yeah, uh Michael Keaton, best Batman. I agree with you on that. That's a conversation for another day. Yeah. It's gonna be DC if I had to pick.

SPEAKER_00 8:29

Fair enough. Um, and finally the one that seems to cause mass hysteria pineapple on pizza.

SPEAKER_02 8:35

Absolutely. Um, I love it. Right. Realize it's contentious. What I will say is gherkins, they're the devil's food and should be bammed, and people that eat it should be shot.

SPEAKER_00 8:45

I quite like gherkins. Line me up and shoot me now. Yeah. Excellent. Well, there we go. That concludes another uh Caraby's quirky question moment. Not as exciting.

SPEAKER_02 8:59

I didn't really need the special under armed deodorant I put on. I thought you were gonna make me sweat a bit more.

SPEAKER_00 9:03

No, no. Maybe I need to work on that, you know, that just get them gruelling every every time. Yeah.

How Matt's Interest in The Paranormal Started

SPEAKER_00 9:10

So now that obviously we know a little bit about yourself, time to delve into it a little bit deeper. So when did the world of the paranormal start for you?

SPEAKER_02 9:19

So the world of paranormal, I'm gonna, as I said to you at the beginning, we're gonna try and be a first on these, and I've bought a prop with me because this helps explain when things maybe went a bit weird for me. So this is a vase for those who can see it on screen.

SPEAKER_00 9:35

Yeah, we might need to yeah, you yeah, you're good.

SPEAKER_02 9:38

The reason I bought this is because this was one of two identical vases. It's made of glass, it's from Scotland, has a picture of a stag on the front. Quite heavy, quite thick, actually. But this is part of the story, so it's not so my grandmother had one, and my mother, who is uh no longer with us, she died when I was quite young, she had the other. And then when my mother passed away, my grandmother obviously inherited the other vase, and she used to have these standing on a rather large sideboard that sat at the end of the room by the window, because that might be relevant. I was about 11, 12, because I remember I'd just started secondary school, so I guess there was a bit of teen perhaps you know, teen angst approaching. I was getting to that hormonal point in life. But I was having uh an argument with my grandmother, um, and words were said to the effect of you know, uh, you know, I kind of wish mum was still here, might not be living with you then. You know, we were butting heads in a grandmother nearly teenager sort of way. You know, words I now regret. Um at the moment I said that, the other vase, the the brother to this vase, exploded. Wow, didn't break, didn't crack, it exploded. Um that was the vase sitting on the far right of the cyborg as you looked at it, which was near the window. Now, why did that happen? I don't know, could be a stress fracture in the glass, you know, something in its functionally in its makeup on the internal internal floor, I don't know, but that was odd. Yeah. And you know, I think that started off a process in my mind of thinking strange things happen, what happened there? You know, and I I did a bit of thinking and a bit of research and a bit of reading. Um, and I think I kind of eventually came to the conclusion that fundamentally this is this is a coincidence. There's a conversation going on with a degree of emotion and what links I think the coincidence and the emotion is timing. That's the key thing. The two things came together, and at the point I said that and referenced my mother, her vase, because this is my Nan's vase that I inherited when she passed, blew up. So, you know, it's probably not paranormal. I probably debunked it, but it was that incidence that very much got me on this path of there are some strange things that happen in the world that I can't immediately explain. That was one of them. I feel happy now. It's probably, like I say, a thermal reaction or something. That glass was in the window, it would have been in the sun, maybe it had an internal floor, off it went. But that set me on this path, and you know, probably you'll remember programs in the 90s like Strange but True and things like that. I personally would love to love to start a campaign to bring that back. I'm not sure we'd we'd get Michael Aspel presenting it now, but you know, we had a lot of stuff like that in the 90s going up to the 2000s, didn't we? We had the X-Files, which you know, I was in on the ground floor on that when it was on BBC Two back in the day, watching it on my old TV in my bedroom, and then we have Most Haunted. I mean, that was the first real programme of its type. Well, that builds and builds and builds a picture, doesn't it? And and and a love of this stuff, and now we're flooded with those sorts of programs that we have to be very, I think, choosy, which we we focus on as investigators. Um sorry, you were gonna say.

SPEAKER_00 13:10

Oh no, no, I I was thinking about this the other day, and I wish I'd said it on my episode ages back. But the the first thing that I ever watched which terrified me as a child as a child, and it would probably similar to you because we're the same age, yeah, was Ghost Watch on BBC. With Parkey. Michael Parkinson's.

SPEAKER_02 13:27

That was banned, wasn't it? Banned or taken off air for a quite negative reaction or something.

SPEAKER_00 13:31

Mr. Pipes. Yeah. That was that was legitimately terrifying. Yeah. And that I think was where it started piqued my interest. God, what was that? It must have been early 80s, right? Or mid eighties. Yeah. Yeah. So that's kind of what started it. But then I think to myself, you know, um, even though it was a hoax, it was a very good hoax.

SPEAKER_02 13:52

Yeah. I I mean I think I've always had this desire, this curiosity, and being curious is part of what we do, isn't it? Or it's an important part of what we do, I think. Where mysteries are concerned, you know, even before I was into the paranormal, uh ghosts, etc., I I used to have these little cards, I think they were cigarette cards that I that were collected when before I was born and given to me, and they had stuff on them like the curse of Tutankhamun and you know Bigfoot and um yeah, some ghost stuff, and they just fascinated me who had a picture on the front and a story on the back. And that's that sort of mystery has always intrigued me. But as humans we like to be scared anyway. I think that although there is a natural reaction there that says fear is our trigger that says run away and preserves us. I think there's an element of people like to be scared, which is why we go to haunted houses, which is why we go on roller coasters that we stand at the ground and look up at and think no chance, but then we go and get on it. We love that feeling, it's it's a natural drug.

SPEAKER_00 14:54

Yeah, yeah, that's true. Yeah. Um yeah, I mean, going back to the glass though, obviously I was gonna say it's timing, but there's always that, you know, there's a timing when there's you know, there's a there's a I mean, you were having a heated argument at that point, right? Yep. Did that crack and explode to stop that argument in mid-flow, or had it already ended?

SPEAKER_02 15:20

Do you know that's a good question? Um I never thought thought about that. I suppose it ended the argument. So you were still arguing and then boom Well as soon as I made that comment, that happened, and obviously your attention immediately shifts to that vase has just exploded. And it and it and it's obviously stopped stopped you in your tracks.

SPEAKER_00 15:39

Right. So for me, that is a little bit more than timing. That that okay, granted, it's not necessarily it could not be par it may not be paranormal, it may be paranormal, but what it has also done is actually got in the middle of that argument and stopped it in its tracks, and um your focus is then on something else to pick up all the glass that's been.

SPEAKER_02 16:00

I think whichever way we look at it, Krabby, whichever way we take a position, timing is what makes it powerful. Yeah. And that's the key thing for me. And you can look at that one story and we can divide people down the middle, can't we? And have the cynics on one end, which is I'm sure we'll come on to this, where I sit on a scale and you know, those people at the other end who are leaning towards there being some meaning in that connected to the emotion.

SPEAKER_00 16:26

Um I mean, were these both together as well?

SPEAKER_02 16:30

Nope, they were opposite ends of the of the um uh the big uh sideboard at nanos. Yeah, so that's why I said one was positioned at one end and was kind of just to the side of the window. So it would have had heat, it would have had sunlight. Um but certainly at the point this happened, you know, I I didn't immediately launch into investigation mode because that's not where my brain was at that point in my life. No, it flowed from that.

SPEAKER_00 16:54

Yeah.

Matt Describes Seeing a Figure At Fort Amherst

SPEAKER_00 16:55

So that was your first experience then, obviously, where you've kind of gone, well, hang on, there's something not quite right here, or there's something that um that's obviously piqued your interest and you want to dig into it a little further. Um I mean, was there any other kind of experiences after that?

SPEAKER_02 17:14

Not until we fast forward to about five, six years ago, um, with this group, just before Dan uh took it on and refreshed it. Fort Amherst. Um so for those people that aren't familiar with Fort Amherst, it's a Napoleonic fortress, 18th century, um built to defend Chatham Dockyard. So it's the best way to describe it is is it's dug out of the chalk, and it's essentially lots of brickline tunnels. I mean, I know you've been there, we've we've been on at least one investigation, possibly two. Um so lots of creepy dark tunnels, lots of uneven light, quite maze-like, messes with the brain. We were in a room off to the side of the tunnels. I'm sure the room has a name, most of them do in these places, but I can't remember what it was. But I'm gonna call it the map room. It probably was sorry, the communications room, the map rooms at Kelvin.

SPEAKER_00 18:18

So the communications room is where all the telephones are, right? Correct.

SPEAKER_02 18:21

Am I right that there is a communication? Yeah, I remember that being down the other end of the room. Anyway, the majority of the team of the investigation group were sitting down the end. I'd hung back a bit, don't ask me why, I just uh perhaps other uncharacteristically felt like being quiet on this occasion and not getting involved. So I was sitting at the back observing, so I had nobody behind me. What I had behind me was probably about 10-15 foot tunnel, and then the door, which was open. The room we were sitting in was completely dark, and down the other end where everyone else was, I recall they were just doing some calling out, some talking. So I'm sitting listening, and I'm sitting at a slight angle, so I've got everybody else over here, and I've got the door in my peripheral vision. And I saw somebody in my peripheral vision have approached the door, stop and stand in it, so they were silhouetted. Remember dark in this room, a slight light in the tunnel outside, and then they were gone. And it's made me turn my head to look because I've expected someone to be there. And I remember stopping the group saying something, you know, to the effect of Christ, did anyone see that? And then I've got up and gone to the door and looked left and right, and of course there's nobody there, as is the tradition of every um paranormal encounter. And then my next thing is, well, is everyone in this room? Yes, everyone was in the room. So in theory, everybody was in front of me, more or less in front of me to the side of me. So that couldn't have been anyone in the group. Now, of course, that doesn't mean it wasn't someone that wandered into the tunnels from outside, um, you know, a person not with the group. Um, but everyone was accounted for. And that's really my only other encounter I've had since I've been part of this. Um that I can't easily explain without applying a bit of science. I think my explanation is and I guess this is where I I come in as the the cynic of the group, is imprasound is quite a big thing, I think, in our world. I think it could arguably explain a lot. If you think of the parallels between a fort dug into a chalk cliff, brick tunnels, the London Underground, for instance, that has a lot of ghost reports, it has a lot of history, had to dig up a lot of graves to build the underground. But you know, that there's been a lot of work gone on there to sh to try to show that infrasound affects how people feel when they go into those tunnel spaces, and one of the things it affects is peripheral vision. Um, this figure that I saw, because I can't really give you any description, I couldn't tell you what it was wearing, I couldn't tell you whether it was male or female, it was a silhouette. This figure was definitely in my peripheral vision, but it my brain just picked up, and I think that's what brains do. We have to be aware of that. When you go into those sorts of environments where it's dark, where it's claustrophobic, you don't know the layout, it's your brain starts to try to fill in the gaps. And again, it comes back to that point I made earlier. It's about fear, it's about defense. It's well, I'll fill in these gaps, but I'll do it in a way that makes you think, Christ, I don't want to be here, maybe I should leave. Because that might be the safest thing for me to do.

SPEAKER_00 21:43

Yeah, I mean it's interesting that obviously everybody was in front of you as well, so they're not going to see that. Because you've hung back, um you're at that point the the only person who's really going to be able to see that happen, I guess. Yeah. Because I know what it because you it it Got it kind of goes round in a circle, doesn't it? Like from when you walk into the communications area and then walk back out again, you're walking back in on yourself. So yeah, so not everyone's going to be able to see that. So again, so you know, that's a personal experience for you, um, which I've obviously was said before is like you know, it might not necessarily be for everyone else, it might be just for you. To to keep you to keep you peaking your interest.

SPEAKER_02 22:25

Yeah, well, do you know what I think? Even without that happening, I think my interest is constantly peaked. I mean, for me, I mean look, being a cynic, cynicism isn't about uh um not accepting the paranormal. I do accept the paranormal. Probably I wouldn't be in this group otherwise. It's just having a healthy, I guess, intellectual discipline that says I'm not immediately going to jump to the conclusion that this is a ghost or that this is something otherworldly. Um, you know, I need to look at the other possibilities first and discount them. And I think in that instance, science does have a potential explanation with infrasound if you if you do a bit of digging and reading on that, particularly in that sort of environment. But equally, infrasound is a theory, it doesn't prove every paranormal encounter, so much in the same way that if someone says it's a ghost, you can't really prove it's a ghost. There's no hard evidence of that. Science will say it's infrasound, but it also struggles to prove it was infrasound. Yeah. You end up in this space somewhere in the middle, don't you? And I think that's where most of us are. I think can't speak for everyone else, but I certainly think in the group we're all somewhere on that scale of cynic.

SPEAKER_00 23:41

Yeah. Well, I think with that with that particular location as well, is that because you can't necessarily prove what's gone on there, you keep going back. And we've gone back a few times. I've had experiences there.

SPEAKER_02 23:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:55

Um, other members of the team have had experience there. I actually caught a very good EVP there as well. I think I I've got the recording of it somewhere. I think we'll we'll do an episode on that location and I'll bring the EVP in. But we would the rumour was that there is a spirit of two girls there. I can't remember the name. I think it was like Sarah and Charlotte. I could be wrong, you know, it could be could be other names, obviously, but I don't I don't actually remember what their names were. But on the spirit box, we were calling for them, and then there was two female voices that came through. Now, again, I mean, you know, the years of the I've of of I've been there and um investigated there. That's the first time where I've actually had something come through on the spirit box there.

SPEAKER_02 24:40

Do I do I remember correctly? Might not have been you. We went to Am Fort Amherst once, and somebody, I think it was you. It's always me. Well, you know, you and I often end up uh drifting towards each other. I think we're drawn together slightly as the Gemini twin thing. You've got an affinity. You took a picture, or someone took a picture and it had a haze in it in Fort Amherst. Uh uh some sort of ethereal um haze fog. Do you recall that? Or have I made that? I mean, I may have made that up, I might have dreamed it.

SPEAKER_00 25:12

Uh I don't remember, but then you know, from 2016 onwards, we've been there a few times, so yeah, there there have been pockets of strange stuff, yeah. I mean other members of the group as well have witnessed shadows. I again I think that's trick of the eye, but there have been moments where it does look like black shadows peering around the stone, you know, when you're looking up at a distance.

SPEAKER_02 25:39

The thought of shadow people, you asked me earlier when I've been genuinely scared, and I made a rather flippant um uh uh answer about my uh divorce bill. I think the uh the j the genuine answer to that, because I don't scare easily, I'll be honest about that. Maybe it is part of the logical side of my brain, just often works, take a lot of convincing for something to bit me up, you'll have to beat that.

Why Uncanny Scared Matt

SPEAKER_02 26:04

I watched Uncanny, I enjoyed Uncanny of the TV series, but you know, I take it for what it is, there is an entertainment aspect to it, but I think Danny Robbins, in the way he he does what he does, he does a reasonably good job of you know, we're we're certainly not on the end of most haunted where you know he's investigating stories that people are telling you, not trying to investigate a live environment and making stuff happen, allegedly. The Shadow Man one, if you recall that. So there was a there was a gentleman that had been haunted by a figure much of his younger life after his father had died, and then sadly his mother died. That scared the bejesus out of me. Now I watched all of the uncannies and thoroughly enjoyed them because they piqued my interest. I watched that one at home on my own, as I did all the others, and I got very edgy that night, and I struggled to sleep. Something in it delved past my fears that I have on the other ghost stuff that my brain just perhaps dismisses as stories, delved past that and reached down into my soul and went, This is something that you really don't like the thought of, Matt. A figure that's not even a ghost, it's not pretending to be, has some sort of intelligence and it's here and it's here in the shadows. Yeah, and that scared the bejesus out of me, it really did. I was I was quite on edge that night.

SPEAKER_00 27:28

Yeah, I mean, um having experiences in my own home, you can get into your own head like that, and you start overthinking, and then you kind of you you you freak yourself out. Absolutely. And this is another fear that I'm trying to conquer, is that is to actually go to places on my own.

SPEAKER_01 27:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:45

I probably still don't really have the nerve to do that, but that's something that I'm trying to uh kind of do. But um yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:55

Yeah. It's yeah, it's interesting. What's when you go to somewhere on your own? I've done it once or twice. It hasn't necessarily been in a paranormal vein. But what what's that feeling you get when you walk into an old building that once used to be, I don't know, a house, a hospital, a pub or whatever, and you're there on your own?

SPEAKER_00 28:17

I I pick up on energy. I I I've I've always kind of picked up on energy. I'm not really a I don't class myself as a skep um, I don't class myself as a psychic or you know, having mediumship abilities and everything like that, but picking up on energy, yeah, um like headaches, nausea. Um I went to a um a place um a couple of weekends ago, just a very old abandoned building, and there was just walking into a room and it was just immediate uh like a band around my head, like a tension headache, yeah, and then it was nausea. It was like I'd been on a fairground ride. That's basically the only way I could describe it. Yeah, but I was fine walking in there, but in that room, I was awful the moment I stepped out of that room or stepped out of the house feeling fine, yeah. But I couldn't go back into that room afterwards because I just felt so sick.

SPEAKER_02 29:08

I've experienced it in the past, and I think you and I spoke about it on WhatsApp the other day, and it has a name in it, it that feeling that you can't quite explain is called liminality, and it's when you visit a place generally on your own, and what is in front of you is out of context. So, to give you an example, there was a place I used to go to as a kid that was an old water mill, um, largely still there in structure, but mostly overgrown, had a big water pit at the front of it, which would have once been filled with water with a turning stone in the middle, and it was now overgrown, but it was quite deep. When you went in there, if you just stood there, or if you stood and looked down into the water, what would have been the water pit, and there's something for me personally about stagnant, still, dark water that is creepy in its own right, I think it is for most people. That feeling of being in that place that was once busy, people were there, there were machines whirring, there was noise, there was hubbub. That feeling you get, I think that's liminality, because you're there out of context, but your brain is thinking this doesn't quite fit.

SPEAKER_00 30:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:19

Um and I think most people have experienced that at some point in their life. Yeah, you out of context spaces. Bit like if you walked into a shopping centre. Imagine if you walked into Blue Water one day, the doors were open, nobody was there. No nobody. Yeah, you walked in and you looked around. That feeling you'll think you would get up your spine, that's what I think liminality is.

SPEAKER_00 30:41

And if that ever happened, that's where me thinking of the walking dead, because I'm thinking, right, there's no one in it. Now I'm expecting zombies just to come out of the woodwork or come out of shop doorways and start running towards us.

SPEAKER_02 30:55

But isn't it that fear reaction again? Isn't that something that's creeping up your spine, up your central nervous system to your brain that's saying, This isn't right, this is out of context, e.g., something's wrong. Time for you to turn around and walk back out the door.

SPEAKER_00 31:08

Yeah, it's trusting your gut instinct almost as well, isn't it? As you know, um like the theory of like um there's been a plane crash, but someone's missed their flight that that would have obviously led to the death. They're like, Oh, I just woke up late that day, or I had a bit of a bad vibe, so you know, give it a miss. Yeah, yeah. And then, you know, that kind of thing happens. Yeah, it's all very strange. Yeah. Yes.

Sceptic or Believer

SPEAKER_00 31:34

So uh moving on from that then, um obviously we ask everyone this question, and after everything you've seen and experienced so far, what what do you consider yourself? Do you consider yourself to be a believer, a sceptic, or somewhere in the middle, or what was it that Dan said he was a um Probably a cynical believer. Something like that.

SPEAKER_02 32:00

That's that's I mean, you know, that's a politician's answer, isn't it? It should have been a politician, I'm not gonna commit to one or the other, and then both of you will give me the votes. I I'm gonna answer this um in a way you're not expecting. I don't think the word believer is helpful. I know it th the whole ps uh sceptic uh and believer comes from again uncanny t team skeptic scheme believer. That's fine, that's a TV show. You're not going on an investigation. What we do is we investigate. And the thing with the belief end of the scale is I don't think somebody who believes would be in an investigation group. And the reason for that is if you step back and say what is belief and we apply it to um religion. So somebody who is religious believes in a god or gods, they have belief, they have faith, which is what comes with belief, and they don't need proof. That's the key thing. They know in their mind God exists, and they're not interested in somebody proving or disproving his or her existence. That's belief. People who believe in ghosts don't need to be in a group that are investigating ghosts. So, what I think there is in our or that in our group, and I've already hinted at this, is I think there is scepticism, which is healthy, we need that. I think there's a sliding scale of scepticism. So I think it's where are you on that scale? Are you very sceptic, are you moderate, or are you less sceptic? If you've got belief, I think arguably you're in the wrong place being in a a group that's investigating. Not the answer you expected, but my honest answer.

SPEAKER_00 33:42

No. That didn't really even answer the question, but I wasn't gonna answer the question. Yeah, that is a politician's answer right there.

SPEAKER_02 33:50

So my answer to the question is um I think let's rethink this, let's have a sliding scale of skeptic.

SPEAKER_00 33:58

Fair enough. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:59

Because if somebody did turn up to a group interview and said, I'm absolutely a believer, I believe in ghosts all day long, um, you're not gonna convince me otherwise. I think there's a fair question. Do you need to be here? Yeah, that's that's a good point. Because you have belief, you have faith, therefore you don't need proof by definition. That's a good answer. That's thrown you, hasn't it?

SPEAKER_00 34:22

Yeah, it has thrown me a little bit, yeah, because uh it takes out the next two bits of what I was gonna say. I mean, that is a good answer because there's gonna be people out there that are very s very similar to you. There's gonna be like I've said in other episodes, there are gonna be people that are gonna watch this and think, God, this subject is a load of rubbish, you know, but I'll watch it. But then when they see people talking like that, then they're gonna realise that there are groups out there that that that aren't all sense you know, sensationalists or overdramatic people that all believe in the same thing, and I think that's what's good about a group is that there's none of that.

SPEAKER_02 34:59

The ki the key thing is is respect. So again, I go back to the religious example. I'm not religious myself, and actually I think having a belief and having faith is a wonderful thing. I wish I could get there, but I can't. But I am respectful of that, so I'm not in any way denigrating anyone that has belief, and equally in the paranormal world, I'm I'm if they've got belief, great. It's being respectful of that. As I said, I don't think they would work in a group such as ours just because if you have belief, why do you need to be here? Because we're investigating and looking for proof, you've already got it, you've got belief, you've got faith. But that's no disrespect to them. The important thing I think is with any group, and we've definitely got it in spades in this group, is open-mindedness and respect for different people's points of view. It's a diverse group, we've all got different points of view. I've shared mine today. Um but you know, whilst uh people may disagree with that, that's fine. There won't be any fisticuffs, we know that. There won't be any verbal, you know, uh any sort of verbal repercussions because we are a bunch of people who are open-minded. Um, there aren't really any egos within this group, and I think that's great. And there's a healthy cynicism, which is what you need. That goes back to my point. I think on a scale, the question is we're all sceptical, we're all slightly, not cynical's not the right word, sorry, we're all slightly sceptical. Just where are you? Where do you fit on that scale?

SPEAKER_00 36:28

Yeah. And just obviously to let the audience know, is that we do meet up, was it maybe once a month or every two to three months, we meet up, we talk about investigations that we've done previous, we debate what what's been captured, what's been picked up evidence-wise, and then we talk about it, we try and debunk it, we we dismiss a lot of stuff, yeah. But equally we try to discuss the good stuff as well that that that we have captured and maybe can't necessarily be explained. So I think that's quite good. Yeah, you know, that that we what that we do try to debunk as we go along.

SPEAKER_02 37:03

Oh, absolutely, absolutely, and that that is that's what I've said, that is that healthy scepticism, yeah. That's us being open-minded, that's nobody immediately jumping to the conclusion that's a ghost. Yeah. I'm telling you all day long that's a ghost. Because I suspect even if if anyone said that, um, you know, that then there's a respectful but but you know, honest conversation, I think that says, let's just pull back from that. What else can it be before we go to the sensational? Let's let's explore the more rational that we can explain. And if we can remove all of that, you know, it's the old Sherlock Holmes saying, isn't it? You remove remove all of the stuff that is possible, what you're left with ultimately has to be the truth. Yeah. That gap.

SPEAKER_00 37:52

Yeah.

Scream at Rochester Guildhall

SPEAKER_00 37:53

I don't know if you remember years ago. Um, I don't know, did you go to the Rochester Guild Hall to investigate? I did. That was my first investigation. And I don't know if you remember, but I heard a woman scream in that building. Yeah. And then because we used to have cam we used to have the cameras, I don't know if you remember, we used to have the TV screens and the C C T V that had been set up prior to to the investigations. If you remember that. I do. So I heard this scream, and then on the camera, this big old ball of light came from the direction of where the scream happened, and it's travelling at speed through the cameras. Yeah. So it's going from camera one and it's then gone onto camera two, shooting down this hallway and then zipped off down to out of light where where the camera's not set up. And I thought that was quite strange. Ball of light, not a dust particle.

SPEAKER_02 38:52

And I say that tongue in cheek and with respect because what's your view on ball of light versus dust particle?

SPEAKER_00 38:57

But don't you think if it was a dust particle, it travelling the way that it was, like consecutively through three different cameras and then out the door? Yeah, okay, alright. It could be dust, but if there was if it was dust, I'm assuming there would be other dust particles as well. You know, when it's been picked up, like like dirt's been picked up, you'd see it like you know.

SPEAKER_02 39:18

I mean, I agree it's unlikely you're gonna have one dust particle and no others. Um so yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:23

But it's strange because no I don't think even yourself heard that scream. Nobody that that was with us in that group at that night even heard it.

SPEAKER_02 39:32

No. I mean, I often hear screaming in my head, but that's that's a different story, but not not on that particular night, no. I just thought I'd um mention that because I remember that I do remember I I don't remember hearing the scream that night, as you say, but I do remember that as as an experience.

SPEAKER_00 39:48

Yeah, because we I I don't think that Rochester Guildhall was ever available after that investigation. Not just for us, I'm just talking in general. I think they changed.

SPEAKER_02 39:57

The first investigation was when I joined um uh the the the you know the prior iteration of this group. Maidstone Museum, and you probably heard me mention it in in various meetings over the years to the point where people start rolling their eyes, but I'd love to go back to Maidstone Museum. Uh again, I don't think that the group has ever been able to get it since. It's a shame because it's an amazing building um and an amazing space.

SPEAKER_00 40:21

I've never been there. Uh I've heard about it, not not investigated there.

SPEAKER_02 40:25

Maybe if we say the words Maidstone Museum enough during this uh podcast, it will be picked up somewhere on an algorithm and the good people of Maidstone Museum. Uh I've done the same with Dover Castle. With Dover Castle or Maidstone Museum. Where else do we want to go? Um We'll come back to that. We'll do that next episode dropping. Maybe that's a new thing. But in all seriousness, you know.

SPEAKER_00 40:44

I mean, there's Wimbledon Theatre as well, which is apparently really haunted. Is it tennis courts then? No, no. Tennis courts, no.

SPEAKER_02 40:50

You have to have the roof on.

SPEAKER_00 40:53

Too much external noise, yeah. Um but no, um, there are other places that obviously we want to investigate. I mean, we'll we'll we'll go anywhere. If it's a if it's available and people want us to come in, then then then brilliant. Yeah,

Private Investigations

SPEAKER_00 41:06

we're all for it. Have you ever done any private investigations at all?

SPEAKER_02 41:09

I did. Um before Dan took over. Um I went to two. Um if I'm honest, one doesn't particularly stick in my mind. I can vaguely remember it. Another one does. Um I mean, as you know, you know, details about private investigations are kept strictly on the down low for for obvious reasons, it's confidential. But um they're a different beast, aren't they? Um for a start, I think you've got to have um heavily tuned in emotional skills, people skills, uh, some emotional intelligence, I think is the term I'm looking for. Um to go and deal with people in their own home on their own turf. You need tact, you need discretion. Um yeah. I don't know what your question was gonna be. I mean, maybe your question was have you? And I sort of said yes and then waffled on.

SPEAKER_00 42:11

No, no, that's fine. Yeah, I mean uh I it's not something I've actually done myself, but obviously as a as a group, we you know, we we kind of k class ourselves as as you know a decent bunch of people and and a group in itself that does private investigations as well as seeking out you know locations as well. But yeah but like yeah, like you say, like the whole um you know the the faith, the respect, and you know, the the being tacked toward towards people that that were gonna go into their own home, you don't necessarily necessarily know what you're gonna expect. Yep. Um but yeah, uh I just wondered if you'd actually done that. Because obviously you've been with the group for quite some time. I have.

SPEAKER_02 42:50

I think certainly in the prior group there were certain people that were picked to do that, and I was one of the lucky few, I suspect for the reasons I've just cited, you know, when you're doing that. I mean, because you've got to think about the group's reputation as well. So you need to be careful who you field, I think, at least make sure they, like I say, have the right skills, as it were. And I think that's the case with us now, with with case. Um, there are certain people, damn law, I think, who will go and do those investigations. But um I think the important thing is it's almost a different flip the question round. What do if people want to come to us if they're listening to this, if they've got an issue and they feel it might be paranormal, why should they come and talk to us? So I'll ask you the question, I'll flip the tables. Why should they come and talk to us? Come on, you got me on the spot now.

SPEAKER_00 43:39

Uh I've got the answer if you want it, but well no, I mean it it it it it it's fairly I I guess it's fairly obvious that if people do have something in their home or you know they're experiencing something that they can't explain, they believe that maybe they have paranormal activity or they have a spirit in their home. We do we we can Come to their houses, we can do a proper investigation in the most respectful way. We can determine whether there is something, and if there's not, we have people that can can do clearings. You know, we don't have to call a priest or anything like that, or do you know some random uh um sort of ritual?

SPEAKER_01 44:21

Ritual is the word I was looking for. Yeah, we don't we don't blood and wearing grass skirts.

SPEAKER_00 44:24

Yeah, we don't need to come in reading a big book and you know slicing our hands open and cross it with blood and all that. No, we we just come in and we you know we we help out as as as as much as we possibly can. And there's always connections to other people that if you can't clear, then there's somebody else who can. So, you know, we're we're we're good in that sense, I guess. I've not actually done an investigation, but I'm just I'm just spitballing in terms of the case.

SPEAKER_02 44:48

Yeah, it'd be nice to open the door to more of them, wouldn't it? Which I think is why I'm asking the question, because what I'm actually getting at, and you've answered it for me, is we're approachable, yeah, we're respectful, we're not gonna take the wee wee. So I think anyone in that situation is gonna be nervous about coming to a person or a group of people you don't know and saying, I've got some odd stuff going on in my house. What do you think of this? Or am I just do I just need to straitjack it and uh and a trip up the road? You know, from working with this team, from knowing people, from knowing people like Dan and knowing people like you and having met Laura people don't have any fear, I think, about coming to a group like this. Yeah, we will be respected, no one no one is going to immediately disbelieve you, but equally we will approach it with a a healthy, sceptical mindset. Yeah. Um and we're not paid, which I picked up on on Dan's podcast when I was listening to it, which I I assumed we weren't, but I wasn't sure until I heard him confirm it. But again, that's good because I think if you're having groups out who are paid, immediately creates a conflict of interest, doesn't it? Yeah. They now need to return something for your investment. So they're more likely to find something that changes the bias. So that's I think although that's a small point for many people, I actually think it's quite a big point when looking to get in a team of um Ghostbusters is the wrong term. Investigators, we are investigators.

SPEAKER_00 46:25

Yeah, and and glorify Ghostbusters.

SPEAKER_02 46:28

I'm still waiting for my proton pack.

SPEAKER_00 46:30

You might be waiting a while. Um, but in all seriousness though, like if you are watching this and you think that you do have something in your home, you're in the Kent area, or Kent and Southeast area, shall we say, and you know, you're worried about how you want to word it, or you're worried about kind of reaching out, then you can reach out to us. We've got all of the information on our kind of YouTube channels or across various social media platforms that you can contact us on. So we're all very um we're all very open to experiences and stories, and you know, if you do have something in your home and you you want a group of people to come in and check it out, we can do that. No problem.

SPEAKER_02 47:08

Absolutely.

When Did This Turn Into More Than a Hobby

SPEAKER_00 47:10

When did this kind of uh turn into more than a hobby? Because I know that you had a bit of a gap out, like I did, and we we actually came back at Fort Burgoyne, didn't we?

SPEAKER_02 47:21

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 47:21

Yeah, two two Geminis coming together again.

SPEAKER_02 47:24

Yes, it was, yes.

SPEAKER_00 47:25

So I think you had about a year out and I had a year out, and then we've we've come back and then we came back at the same time.

SPEAKER_02 47:32

Yeah, I suppose that's again another credit to this team, is that you can um bugger off for you know take take a gap year or a gap two years, uh, as I did to have a child, and then um, you know, when life the sands of life shift again, I think I want to bring this back into my life, and people welcome you with open arms, it's not a uh you know, we thought you'd left, so we've we've filled your seat immediately to come on back in, which I love. Um and for me to sorry to answer your more direct question, that there was that gap. I did take that time out. Um life changed uh in a way I didn't expect and I felt I wanted to bring this hobby back again, but more than that, bring the group of people back. And yes, there are new people, things had changed. Dan had obviously uh taken on the team, refreshed it, rebranded it, which I think it needed. I mean, hey, I work in the in the business world, and as I say, in the business world, if you if you stand still for too long you get run down, and that's the same with anything. At some point you've gotta refresh it, give it a lick of paint, learn some lessons and move it forward, and that's what Dan's done. Um, and I came back and you know I'm still welcome. It's like a little community you join, I think.

SPEAKER_00 48:50

Yeah, very much so.

SPEAKER_02 48:51

I suspect you and I could fly over to America now and or even a country where we don't quite speak the language, and if you find a paranormal group, uh, you know, a bunch of investigators, I think the fact that you've immediately got this on your CV, you've all got something in common.

SPEAKER_00 49:07

Yeah. Bridges, bridges language, bridges culture.

The Investigations

SPEAKER_00 49:11

Let's talk briefly about the investigations themselves. For anyone listening who's say never done an investigation, they've never been, they've never been on a group or they've never done an investigation that they would, you know, maybe pay for, you know. Uh what does it feel like to be out there? Like what's going through your head? You're standing in a dark building, like what what what what what what's it what's it like for you?

SPEAKER_02 49:39

I think the situation I described at Fort Amherst earlier, where I had uh, you know, a potential paranormal experience, me sitting at the back has become something that I'd prefer to do more and more over time. Uh I'm a slightly strange, quirky character, I'll admit I'm introvertedly extrovert. Um, you know, I can uh be up the front of somewhere talking and waffling and and laughing and joking, but equally I'm very happy to be the quiet guy at the back of something. Um and I think for me I get a real sense of an occasion of what's going on if I can stand at the back or stand to the side and just observe. Um again, maybe it's that sceptic in me, but I just want a wild fielder view of what's going on. I mean, that's the more I guess emotional intellectual answer, the slightly more fun answer because look, none of us do this for entertainment. I think that's that's hopefully a statement I can make for most people. With this is an entertainment, that's most haunted, but we do have fun, fun's different to entertainment, you know, we we don't need to be serious all the time. And one of the things I love about this is going to some of these locations we go to. And you know, years ago we went and did, it might even have been um Kelverdon, and um I remember coming home as we often do at these things, two o'clock, three o'clock, four o'clock in the morning by the time you get back, and saying to my then girlfriend, she said to me, you know, how was it? And I said, No, it's quite night, nothing happened. Oh, that's disappointing. No, it's not. I got to spend most of my evening in a nuclear bunker, which is normally not open to the public, certainly not open to the public without someone chaperoning you around and saying you can't go in there, you can't go over there, um, you can only peer around that corner. Well, they pretty much go, You've got the run of it for the night because you paid for it, off you go. That's never disappointing. That that in itself. Um, and I think sometimes when I'm doing it, I feel quite privileged to think we're in these historic buildings and we've been given trust, which I'd like to think we've always returned. Can't think of a time we've broken anything or set light to anything. You know, we take care of stuff, we respect that it's other people's property. Um, if we are told not to go somewhere, we don't, because some of these places do have, you know, uneven floors and 50-foot drops. Yeah. But it's that I just love that Krabby. That that is almost a little part of this, which I appreciate is not paranormal, but you know, you kind of ask me about what I'm thinking, what I'm feeling. I've often looked round myself and thought, I'm glad I'm here. I'm enjoying at least soaking up this environment right now.

SPEAKER_00 52:32

Let's touch upon Calvidon, because we everybody that's been to Calvidon likes to talk about Calvidon. You like to talk about Calvin. And I remember years ago, it might have even been pre-COVID, that we went to Calvidon and you and I were sat in a room together, and for me, I was more open to stuff than you were.

SPEAKER_02 52:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 52:52

And it was in the You're saying I'm skeptical, crack me. Is that what you're saying? You're more sceptical than I am.

SPEAKER_02 52:58

I hope I'm not giving people that impression on this.

SPEAKER_00 53:00

Surely not. But I don't know if you remember, it was um it was in the bottom room opposite the tunnels. It was like an old communications room downstairs. Yeah. Typewriters. Yeah. Um, and I don't know what else. There's like recording stuff in there and everything. And I remember, because I remember your reaction to it more than anything else, was that we were in the room and we could hear movement. Yes, I do remember that. And there was a moment there where you were like, I can't explain that.

SPEAKER_02 53:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 53:33

Do you remember that?

SPEAKER_02 53:34

I do remember that, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 53:35

So what what do you think?

SPEAKER_02 53:36

Was that the occasion when we then got called back pretty much then?

SPEAKER_00 53:39

Yeah, was it they called a break?

SPEAKER_02 53:41

We're like, oh god, that's really bad time.

SPEAKER_00 53:43

Yes, that's it. That's exactly that. Yeah. Yeah. Because that that that that when someone calls a break, yeah, it killed that moment there, and then it was just building up to something. But I wanted to because we never really had a chance to talk about that in a greater depth. But what do you think that was? Bearing in mind that we're right like underground, right? That's bottom floor. No rats, there's no there's no rats running around on typewriters.

SPEAKER_02 54:14

No, I mean that would be my immediate thought, if I'm honest, would be vermin. Is there vermin down here? And I suppose had we had longer to go and investigate, we would have gone poking and prodding around behind stuff. But I think you're right, it's unlikely you're going to find any vermin in the nuclear bunker, especially considering how it's made. Walls of solid concrete. I can't imagine there are too many spaces behind the walls for vermin to get. Um I can't blame it on infrasound. And you know, wind, that there isn't any um any sort of drafts down there, so difficult to say. Unexplained. It is.

SPEAKER_00 54:55

Doesn't mean it's a ghost though. Oh no, no. It doesn't mean it was a ghost, but I think if they hadn't called break, yeah, I think we were on to something. Would you agree?

SPEAKER_02 55:04

Yeah, potentially, yeah. I th I I think we'd have gone and investigated I think maybe we'd have done some calling out or something.

SPEAKER_00 55:11

How many times have you been to Calvin?

SPEAKER_02 55:14

Three. And I did couldn't come to the last one, you may recall, due to dad duties, and I'm absolutely gutted because you all came back and it seemed like it had been a a night of Do you know what it's the first night? Paranormal orgy, I'm gonna describe it as well. And I didn't go.

SPEAKER_00 55:29

Yeah, yeah. Because it was the first time ever, I think, that nobody got tired because every because everyone was buzzing. Yeah, and then we I think it was like literally from six in the afternoon, six in the evening all the way up until six in the morning. So it was like twelve straight hours of of just pure adrenaline run investigating. It was great, and we everyone seemed to have something to say about it as well, which is like I keep saying, it's a place that keeps on giving. Because there was a time years ago, pre-COVID, that I thought I was gonna give this up. I was like, you know what? I've I've been on so many investigations where nothing's happened.

SPEAKER_02 56:03

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 56:04

I'm gonna give it up. And I don't know if you remember Big John.

SPEAKER_02 56:06

Do you remember Big John? I do remember Big John. So one of the songs are big and his name is John.

SPEAKER_00 56:11

He was Big John, yeah. Not like the song by James Dean. But the um big or bad John. But there but there was a moment where because I in my head, I'm like, you know what, after this, I'm gonna call it a day. Yeah. Boots on the ground, walking. Me and John sat kind of as we are now, just sat there, five people in front of us, footsteps like definitely boots on the ground, because you can hear the squeaking, you can determine the the the the the you know the shoe that's being worn. Walked all the way from behind us and then in front of us, because you can tell by the sound, and then walks out the door. Now, me and John are the only people that hear it, the five people in front of us didn't hear it, and I'm just like, How? It's just crazy. Yeah. So that's kind of what kept me going. And in Kelverden, every single time that I've gone there, there there's something else that's happened, like seeing the um entity that that I saw, other people seeing it, potentially. We'll find that out through other interviews. But I mean, you could do your own podcast just on Kilverdon alone.

SPEAKER_02 57:13

It's it's a it's just it's it's a strange place, isn't it? I mean, it sort of goes back to that liminality point because you go if you go into it correctly, which we're never allowed to go into it through, but you know, is through the bungalow up top, clearly, for people that don't know it, it's a World War II, sorry, not a World War II, a nuclear bunker, cold war bunker, so post-World War II. Clearly they're meant to be hidden, so they built a bungalow on top to make it look like a house from outside, and underneath you I think it's about 120 foot down, something like that. Yeah. You've just got all these rooms, yeah. Um, you know, offices, typists' rooms, uh rooms to sleep in, kitchens, a radio, um studio of all things, which you know makes sense, but all this stuff that you don't expect to find under a bungalow in a wooded area in Essex, which brings me back to my liminality point. Is there a bit of your brain that goes, This is odd? Yeah. I didn't expect to see this under the ground.

SPEAKER_00 58:12

Well, it's like a time capsule, isn't it? Yeah. It's still um I don't know if it's kind of as it was from the 50s, but it's definitely not changed in the last 20 odd years.

SPEAKER_02 58:22

No, I I'd say it's definitely not been redecorated at all.

SPEAKER_00 58:25

So I went we we must have gone 2016. Yeah, it hasn't changed at all. It's exactly the same. The only thing that's changed is that some things that were working are no longer.

SPEAKER_02 58:34

They turned off the talking clock, which I think is a shame because if anything's gonna give you the willies every five minutes, it's that thing making you jump. I mean, that was that was part of the original experience, if I'm honest, and I was disappointed to find they turned it off. Do you reckon somebody had a heart attack?

SPEAKER_00 58:48

I just think that's why they turned it off. I just think it I just think that it's um it's just stopped working. I think. Really? I'm not bothered to get it recorded. Because it was a it was a clock, and then there was a talking voice with it as well. Correct, yeah. And I think it's just stopped working.

SPEAKER_02 59:01

I don't think it's I mean these days we call it Alexa, but it wasn't quite that advanced, was it?

SPEAKER_00 59:05

Well, it was the wasn't it the guy that you know the the time sponsored by Acura? It was that guy that was. Oh, was it? I believe so. Yeah, well it I might be wrong, but it was very similar.

SPEAKER_02 59:13

Yeah, it was definitely creepy.

SPEAKER_00 59:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 59:16

Again, the atmosphere, everything echo. Because that was the thing I recall about that clock, it echoed throughout. Didn't matter where you were in that place, and maybe it was engineered that way. You heard that thing read

Outro

SPEAKER_02 59:27

out the time.

SPEAKER_00 59:28

Well, look, we we could talk hours, like I said on other episodes, we could literally go on and on. But what you know, the we'll get you back onto the show as well. Um obviously Ricky's gonna be gutted about this, like he's gonna listen back and think, God, that was such a great episode. And then he's he's gonna say, Oh, but you didn't ask this Krabby, you didn't say that, and I'm like, Oh yeah, well he shouldn't have gone on holiday, should he? No, exactly. Yeah, blame Dan for paying money to take your chances, as I say. Giving him annual leave.

SPEAKER_02 59:53

I think you should have brought him in. I mean, the technology's there, you could have video linked him from the pool side somewhere. Yeah. Tequila in one hand.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:00

Probably be a little bit more incoherent, but you know. But Matt, thank you so much for coming in, sharing your stories and uh experiences and whatnot. But again, like you know, we'll we'll get you back in and we'll talk about another location, or you know, should you have an experience somewhere in the next well, I don't know, the next investigations or something, we'll get you we'll get you to come back in if you're happy with that.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:25

Yeah, look, you're welcome for for me coming, but the the thanks is mine. Thank you for uh thank you for inviting me. Um and I think this, you know, the podcasts uh and the YouTube, this is a great way to reach people. Um definitely something we should do more of. Because I think as a group, we've got a lot of experience, um, and we've got quite a lot to say on the subject.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:45

Definitely, and it's ongoing as well. So you you know we could talk about anything for for hours on hours. Kelverdon in particular.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:53

Let's let's get a Kelverdon episode together.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:55

Well, we're going there in September, so you know we've probably hyped this up so much now.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:01

You're definitely gonna have to edit that out for somebody's purposes.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:05

We've hyped it up so much that there probably will not be the first time when nothing happens, but yeah, it it would be a good episode after we've investigated again there. So um, yeah, that'd be great. So, yeah, so that's it for episode six. And um again, if you've enjoyed this one, please share it on you know social media, it generally means everything to us.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:26

And equally, if you never want to hear from me again, say and you know, there won't be a repeat performance, perhaps.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:31

Yeah. Well, maybe you've just encouraged people to subscribe even further, you know, especially like all of the skeptics. The skeptics, YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, wherever you get your uh podcast shows from, we'll we're on there now, so that's great. And if you can leave us a review, comment on the videos or comment on the on the uh the download, that'd be great. All links are in the show at the end of the at the end of uh the notes at the end of the screen or whatever I'm trying to say. But um Matt, thank you very much. Thank you for having me. More incredible episodes on the way. So until next time, stay curious, and if something goes bump in the night, you know where we are. We have been the case files, and we'll see you on the other side. Thank you.