Kelvedon Hatch Secret Nuclear Bunker: What's Really Down There? (Part 2)

Crabby, Rick and Matt are back in the studio for Part 2 of Kelvedon Hatch Secret Nuclear Bunker. Last time they covered the history and previous paranormal encounters — this time it's all about KASE's own investigation back in 2025.

From EVP evidence and shadow figures to the ghost of a little girl, this one gets seriously unsettling.

Evidence from this investigation:

🎙️ EVP Clip: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtiG5YVvIGs
👁️ Anomalies Footage: https://www.tiktok.com/@kaseparanormal/video/7634881251274525974
📄 Full Case Study: https://www.kaseparanormal.co.uk/blog/paranormal-investigation-kelvedon-hatch-nuclear-bunker

About KASE Paranormal

KASE Paranormal is a private paranormal investigation team based in Kent, established in 2007. We support households and families experiencing unexplained activity with an evidence-led, grounded approach.

Website: https://www.kaseparanormal.co.uk

Private Investigations: https://www.kaseparanormal.co.uk/private-investigations

Contact: https://www.kaseparanormal.co.uk/contact-us

ABOUT KASE PARANORMAL

KASE Paranormal is a private paranormal investigation team based in Kent, established in 2007. We support households and families experiencing unexplained activity with an evidence-led, grounded approach.


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https://www.kaseparanormal.co.uk

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DISCLAIMER

All investigations are conducted with full permission from the property owner or authorised representatives. We do not trespass or encourage trespassing.

Paranormal investigation equipment is used experimentally. Activations, recordings and personal experiences are not presented as definitive proof of spirits or an afterlife. We consider environmental factors, equipment limitations and natural explanations when reviewing reported activity.

Transcript

Preview

SPEAKER_03 0:00

Everyone present hears a clear whistle, no source. Dan sees a light through the doorway, Laura sees an orange light slightly lower, and then a few seconds after Dan's um experience which suggests possible movement between the two sightings, and then 2158 Darren is standing just outside the doorway and a loud growl is heard directly in front of him.

SPEAKER_04 0:22

Ooh, growl, that's interesting.

SPEAKER_03 0:26

Yeah, so um it was loud enough for every person present to hear it clearly, and in almost the same instant, a cat ball activates. Dan had literally just commented that none of the cat balls had gone off up until that point into the night. And then the visual phenomena. Darren reports seeing a black entity step away from the circle and into a small room. He describes it as an unpleasant in appearance. Meanwhile, myself, positioned elsewhere in the same session, I see a shimmer to the left of this doorway. I kind of then I I blink and then I look again, and then I see this black figure take a step to the right, and it's in the right of the right of the door frame, like the door frame, but I don't see the the full kind of the full-on apparition. I kind of see it from kind of like uh like a partial partial view. But the strange thing was was they had a curved horn-shaped thing on its head.

Welcome Back | The KASE Files Ep 9 Part 2

SPEAKER_04 1:30

Everything in episode eight was the build-up. The history, the stories, the years of people going down into the bunker and coming back changed. This is what happened when Case went back in 2025.

SPEAKER_03 1:42

Three floors, two teams, nearly twelve hours, and something that's still on camera. Welcome to episode nine, part two of the case files.

SPEAKER_04 2:20

I'm Rick. Today I'm John Balkrabby, and also with us is Matt. Uh you may recognise him from earlier episodes as such as Kelvin Hatch Part 1. Um, and obviously Matt's uh Matt's singular episode as well. Uh if you haven't uh if you haven't had the chance to listen to episode eight yet, uh please go and do that right now. Pause, go back, come back and then listen to this because it will make a lot more sense. Um because you need the context.

SPEAKER_03 2:46

Yeah, we mean it. Uh the history, the endless stories, the case accounts from previous investigations, all of that matters for what you're about to hear on this episode. So uh this will make more sense the more you bring to it.

SPEAKER_04 2:59

And for those of you that have listened to episode eight, welcome back. Um, and if you're listening to it back to back, then yeah, thank you for staying with us. Um at the end of the episode, uh Crappy and myself did tease a few things, potential EVP captured in an empty room and locked off camera, physical marks left on our team members, and two investigators independently describing the same child in identical details.

SPEAKER_03 3:25

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 3:25

Um so I've been sitting with that two weeks nearly um since we recorded episode eight.

SPEAKER_03 3:30

And I've got a lot of questions. Of course. Good. Ask them as we go, that's exactly what this episode is for.

SPEAKER_04 3:37

Uh so also with me tonight we've got Matt. Um you weren't here for this investigation for Matt, but obviously um you have been there for others.

SPEAKER_02 3:46

I have been there a few times, so I'll be offering the thoughts as we go through it tonight.

SPEAKER_04 3:49

So when we go through the evidence, you would give three or ten pence worth in and see what we can come up with. Yeah. I'll try to. Uh but before we get into it, guys, please subscribe to YouTube, follow on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or Amazon Music, leave us for a review if you are enjoying the show. Uh, and if you found us through our Kelvin and Hatch episodes, welcome. There is still a lot more where this comes from. So go back to our back catalogue and have a little listen. Kravi,

Inside Kelvedon Hatch: The Investigation Begins

SPEAKER_04 4:13

over to you, my friend.

SPEAKER_03 4:14

Yeah, so Friday, the 7th of November 2025. Case goes into Kelvin Hatch for a full structured two-team investigation. Not a public event, not a fundraiser night, strictly our own investigations, our own protocols from start to finish. Uh so who was there? Who's our team tonight? Uh, two teams. Team A, we have Dan, Darren, Laura, Sam, and Lucy. And then team B was myself with Alan and Lisa. So eight investigation uh eight investigators across three floors.

SPEAKER_04 4:48

Um so you've got eight investigators. Yeah. Massive plays. Why have you decided to split off into two teams?

SPEAKER_03 4:55

Purely because the bunker is just too large to cover in one group without either rushing or missing things entirely. Three distinct underground levels, multiple separate errors on each floor. You split the team, you assign floors, you log everything with time stamps, and then afterwards you cross-reference if something happens on the lower level at say 2100 and something happens on the top floor at the same time, you can check whether those events could be connected or whether they're independent, and crucially you can rule out sound transfer between floors.

SPEAKER_04 5:27

What do you think about splitting off into two teams, Matt? Would you rather have stayed together, or would you rather be able to corroborate evidence?

SPEAKER_02 5:34

I think in Calverdon there's an argument for actually staying together. In most other situations, I'd say definitely split off into two teams, but you know, as maybe we'll come on to later, is there much sound transference in a solid concrete bunker? Probably not as much as in other places. That's an interesting point.

SPEAKER_04 5:52

So it's obviously a big deal to split off into two teams when you're in a concrete underground structure.

SPEAKER_03 5:58

Yeah, umormous. So the acoustics down there are are unusual in general. The sounds do carry in unexpected ways. So before we'd even count anything as unexplained, we tested it. Sound transfer between floors from the positions of our teams that would that that they were using, which was minimal, which means when something was heard, we could be reasonably confident it was local to that position.

SPEAKER_04 6:22

Do you find that to be true? And there's minimal sound transference, and that you can pretty much nail it on.

SPEAKER_02 6:28

I think if we're talking about Kelverdon, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 6:30

Yeah, yeah, fair enough. So what were the conditions like?

SPEAKER_03 6:34

Typical November evening, really, so overcast, damp, as again typical of an air of early November. Inside the bunker, it was cool and stable as you'd expect on the ground during periods of reported activity. We logged localized temperature drops, which we'll get to in a bit. The team did an initial walk around to establish baseline conditions before the investigation began. Uh, Dan and Laura went

Dan & Laura's Walkaround — Something Wasn't Right

SPEAKER_03 6:59

down first. So Dan and Laura went down before the rest of the team.

SPEAKER_04 7:02

Did anything happen there?

SPEAKER_03 7:03

Yeah, almost immediately. Are you ready? Let's hear it. So, yeah, so the lower levels, um, which is the uniformed services and telecoms bit of the place. So Dan and Laura go down to the lower levels early in the evening to do a baseline walk around, you know, get a feel for the place, do a sweep of EMFs, that kind of thing. Uh the we we tend to do this anyway before the an investigation properly starts. So um I guess in this instance, no equipment was actually running, but sometimes when we do baseline, we do use equipment. But in this case, no equipment was running, it was just a uh a no no formal session. So just getting a feel for the place while it's quiet and both of them independently at the same time hear what they describe as an electronic female voice um in the telecoms room. Uh there was no obvious source and nothing that they could point to.

SPEAKER_04 7:57

So an electronic voice in a telecoms room, which was obviously the communications hub of the base. Matt. You're a devunker, aren't you? You're a sceptical guy. What do you reckon?

SPEAKER_02 8:10

Keep rolling, I'll tell you what I think at the end.

SPEAKER_04 8:12

There you go, keep rolling, he says. Um don't know if that's relevant. It was the communications room, what do you think?

SPEAKER_03 8:17

Um it might not be because it's the kind of thing you just file away, and it was filed because as the night went on, the room kept producing

Team A vs. A Child Spirit: Did They Make Contact?

SPEAKER_03 8:24

things.

SPEAKER_04 8:25

So I'm looking at the report, 8 47, uh just before nine o'clock in the evening. What's happened?

SPEAKER_03 8:33

So uh T May are in the Uniform Services area running a question and answer session. Somebody asks, What's your name? And the response that comes through on a communication device immediately said, Annie. At the same time, at the same moment, Lucy hears a distinct knock within the room. So the same is it exactly the same time, or is it sort of like a or is it exactly the same? No, no, same moment. And then um 2059, a device states I am seven, coinciding with a noticeable temperature up in the room. Interesting. What did the team make of that? Um, I mean, in the moment, you just simply log it, you note the temperature, you keep going, you don't start interpreting mid-session as such if you can help it. Uh, the interpretation comes later, but I am seven is the kind of phrase that kind of sits with you because it's not a name, it's not a yes or no, it's um a statement of identity. I am seven, and we will come back to that. And sorry, and we come back to that several times as the night goes on. So hold that thread and it will pay off. Okay, so next log, 2116. Yeah, so the temperature drops approximately two degrees logged on equipment. So 15 down to 13, and at 21.26, Lucy and Laura both hear four clear footsteps within the room while the team's standing still.

SPEAKER_04 9:51

So is that one of those things where Lucy goes, Did you hear that? And then Laura goes, Yeah, I did hear that, or was it both of them independently heard that?

SPEAKER_03 9:58

Uh so both of them. At the same time. Yeah, same sound, same moment. Then Dan feels what he describes as being drawn out into the corridor towards the plant room. He describes a strong sense of heaviness in that area, and I want to be careful with the language that I choose here because heaviness is not a word that Dan would usually throw around. But he said to me as well that the air was thick. So he starts calling out names and Ray and Ralph, names that had come up in an earlier session, they they hear two distinct vocalizations in response.

SPEAKER_04 10:34

Well, like well, twice. So an actual um like an actual you can hear it with your ears.

SPEAKER_03 10:42

Yeah, so um the name of Ralph, the the sorry, the name Ralph then appears on the device shortly after the name Gay Gabrielle appears simultaneously on two separate devices.

SPEAKER_04 10:53

What do you think of the device is Matt? Do they think they listen to you and chuck out random stuff that's appropriate to what you're saying, or do you reckon they've got some credence?

SPEAKER_02 11:02

It depends on the devices. So what what were we using, Grabby?

SPEAKER_03 11:06

Um spirit talk, all right. Yeah, so uh two separate pieces of equipment. Um neither of which is connected to the other, producing the same name and the same amount. That's pretty at the same moment.

SPEAKER_02 11:21

Where are they drawing the words from? Random word generator um or is it tuning into ultra high frequencies?

SPEAKER_03 11:28

That's a good question. I think it's the spirit talker app or um an equivalent of of the Ovalus, you know, you know, think like a word bank device spirit app talker.

SPEAKER_04 11:42

Yeah, but I think it's interesting though, because obviously if one if one does it you can sort of dismiss it. But if two chuck out the same name at the same time, that's that's not bad.

SPEAKER_02 11:52

Absolutely right. I mean on balance of probabilities. Two machines that are independent of each other working differently, what are the chances?

SPEAKER_04 12:02

Yeah, and even then, even if they decide to pick up the same thing to them both come out with the exact same name, even if it was a you know, if one come out with Ralph and one come out with you know a slight variation on it, you go, oh that's because they're picking up what we're talking about, but both of them are nailed on. Um so two separate pieces of equipment, same name at the same time? Um what sort of rational exclamation can we go for that?

SPEAKER_03 12:27

Uh so we looked for a rational explanation and we simply just couldn't find one that would satisfy us really.

SPEAKER_04 12:32

Yeah, I mean we couldn't find one, but I think I think that's a pretty decent bit of evidence

Everyone Heard It: A Whistle With No Explanation

SPEAKER_04 12:36

that. 957? What's next?

SPEAKER_03 12:39

Yeah, so everyone present hears a clear whistle, no source. Dan sees a light through the doorway, Laura sees an orange light slightly lower, and then a few seconds after Dan's um experience, which suggests possible movement between the two sightings, and then 2158, Darren is standing just outside the doorway, and a loud growl is heard directly in front of him.

SPEAKER_04 13:02

Oh, growl, that's interesting.

SPEAKER_03 13:05

Yeah, so um it was loud enough for every person present to hear it clearly. And in almost the same instant, a cat ball activates. Dan had literally just commented that none of the cat balls had gone off up until that point into the night. What do you make of cat balls, Dan? Uh Dan Matt.

SPEAKER_02 13:23

It's a cat ball on the floor, or was it on the desk? Do you remember?

SPEAKER_03 13:27

I'm not too sure actually.

SPEAKER_02 13:28

I mean I think catballs, to answer your question, catballs have got their place. If it's on the more solid concrete floor, then I think setting that off is difficult, if not impossible.

SPEAKER_03 13:36

I would I would say it was definitely on the floor and it was and it was probably on one of those ramps as well that that that keeps it stable.

SPEAKER_04 13:43

Yes, during our investigations is where we do stamp around them, we jump up and down, try and shake them as much as we can, don't we?

SPEAKER_02 13:49

Yes. So it does take a decent amount of form. That's definitely more difficult to explain if that was on the floor and it went off.

SPEAKER_04 13:54

But that's obviously he goes, cabals haven't gone off, and then seconds, yeah?

SPEAKER_03 13:59

Yep. So within seconds, whether you read that as a response to what Dan said or an extraordinary coincidence of timing, then that's your call. But what we can tell you is the sequence of events, and we can tell you that it's documented.

SPEAKER_04 14:14

And then the growl, we're talking like yeah, uh, are we talking like an animal, like guttural growl?

SPEAKER_03 14:21

So it's a low, loud, directional growl. Everyone who was there heard it the same way, clearly with no ambiguity, but about whether they had actually heard something.

SPEAKER_04 14:32

Okay, so we've got first couple of hours, low levels of the hatch, name response, temperature drop, footsteps in an empty room, vocalization being heard in response to being called, two devices producing the same name, a whistle, two lights, and a growl, but yeah, I I I don't want to say like you know, they say if you're finding lots and lots of things, it's probably not paranormal, but what do you think?

SPEAKER_03 15:01

Um well that's just the lower levels, and the night is only just getting started at that point. So Mara, are you saying you've heard a growl?

SPEAKER_04 15:11

Talk to me about that growl.

SPEAKER_02 15:13

Yeah. I mean that growl was in a different room, but interestingly.

SPEAKER_04 15:16

But it wasn't the hatch.

SPEAKER_02 15:18

It was in the map room. Okay. But I think as we revealed in the last episode, I wasn't aware of this incident until it came up in conversation. So that's an interesting parallel there. Look, my thoughts on this is the growl is actually one of the more interesting reports for me because it's I think one of the few sounds that humans are hardwired to react to. It kind of a growl bypasses rational thought and goes straight to the threat centres of the brain. So my first question is probably not whether it's paranormal, it's whether anyone could identify source. Um, because a growl is an unusual thing to hear in an underground bunker. Um, if it genuinely came from nowhere, that's fascinating. If it came from somewhere and nobody could locate it, that's still fascinating too, because Kelwoodon and what it is, it's that sort of environment that can play tricks with sound. I think what's interesting here is that everyone appears to have heard it, correct me if I'm wrong. That's much stronger than a single witness account. But I'd still want to know whether it was recorded, whether it had a discernible source, and whether there's any possibility of sound travelling through the structure in a way that made it appear local when it wasn't. That's sort of the answer to those questions.

SPEAKER_04 16:24

But when was your experience with that? Well what how long ago was that before 2025?

SPEAKER_02 16:28

Uh some years ago, I couldn't give you an exact date, but But we're talking years. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, years, years, yeah. Was it pre-COVID? I say pre-COVID. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 16:37

So I mean that's significant though, that you know, you go in there, hear a growl, and then a completely well, a team without you then goes in there and has the same experience.

SPEAKER_02 16:45

And with the exception of Krabby, a completely different group of people. So it's not even as though that thought transference has happened through a conversation at the pub or whatever. Um to my memory, I don't think I've really mentioned it to anyone before now.

SPEAKER_03 16:58

That's incredible. Yeah, and and we I think we need to get our point across here is that there are no animals in Kelverden Hatch. I don't care what anyone says. I've never seen any animals in Kelverden Hatch. There's no way I mean, obviously you'd get vermin maybe, but a vermin's not going to growl. There's no access for animals to get into that building. And there's no someone mentioned a cat flap. There's no cat flap, there's no um animals that are still kind of roaming around there. The owner doesn't have animals that are roaming around the hatch. But also, you know, like I said to you in the previous episode, that there is a story here where, you know, you hear um a meow of a cat, and then we're hearing a growl, then we're seeing something on all fours, then someone said, Do you think there's creatures at Kelvin and Hatch? And this is that's the Facebook comment, wasn't it?

SPEAKER_04 17:46

When someone commented, Do you think there's an animal, animal creature? Yeah, and actually commented on our post, which was incredible.

SPEAKER_03 17:53

Yeah, because that means that it's not us, it's it's it's it's other people. Yeah, it's been experienced by other groups as well. And like I said to you, like you know, every single time that we go in there, and I do hope that you guys experience something in September, because I know that we've bigged it up so much that it's gonna come to a point where it's just nothing gonna happen, but touch what that doesn't happen. But it seems to be that every time we go back, we're kind of picking up where we left off. There's like a story that we're generating here, and um what was interesting is is that the experiences with the names and IM7 all that, I I never experienced any of that. I didn't even hear it because I was with obviously a different group, but we had experiences separate from the other group as well. So, you know, I actually haven't heard a growl, but then obviously I've seen what I've seen, and the same as Darren's what he's seen. So there is like a story kind of unfolding here, really. I can't wait. It's like a group of detectives, isn't it? Like we're we're we kind of go in and out and we kind of make these notes, and we have this stuff happen, and we've got that happening, and then it just seems to be kind of unfolding into this uh narrative that that we seem to be.

SPEAKER_04 19:02

That every time you speak to somebody else as well, they add to that narrative and they build with it, and they you feel like you're getting the little blocks and pieces, and you're slowly knotting it together. Yeah. But obviously, we've gone from the bottom floor, yeah. Top floor, which is medical bay, dormitories, and sick bay. What's different?

SPEAKER_03 19:18

Uh so the top floor is significantly different than the lower levels for a and and a lot of the team experience a lot of different activity. So excuse me, the um the floor is always kind of feeling quite heavy at times, um, purposeful, almost deliberate. Top floor had something else to it, something more layered, and it produced some of the strangest and in one moment unexpectedly funny activity of the night. Oh, wouldn't it funny? Yeah, yeah.

Footsteps, Voices & Someone Called Alan's Name...

SPEAKER_03 19:47

So we'll get to that. So uh Team B while working the top floor, separate separately logged sounds resembling run-in at around 2150 in the sick bay walkway, along with a tap noted by Alan. And then at 2200 near the sick bay, they heard a sound resembling a man shouting or speaking. They checked immediately, but no one was there.

SPEAKER_04 20:08

So, Matt, do you think as we move up? Do you think that almost that the pressure of being deeper underground, do you think that's going to change how we feel? Do you think being a certain depth below ground is gonna subconsciously interfere with how you feel dependent upon the level that you're on?

SPEAKER_02 20:26

I don't know if it's depending on the level you're on. I don't think pressure necessarily increases the lower down you go. But I think it comes back to this point I've made in other sessions. Kelverdon as a place is unlike any other. It will play tricks with the brains, it's deep in the earth, it's actually quite quiet. You stand there and listen, and there are no sounds to hear. Um, there are no windows. It's just an unusual place. It it comes back to this thing I've said in other sessions. I won't labour the point on liminality, but it's a place out of context, almost a place out of time. And I think that fiddles with the brain. Does that change as you go up and down the levels? No. I think that's there the minute you walk in the door and close it behind you.

SPEAKER_04 21:07

So that was team B's experience on the top floor. What happened with team A?

SPEAKER_03 21:12

Uh so Laura on the top floor later in the night reported what sounded like a male voice or a scream coming from the corridor between the dormitories and the medical bay. Um at midnight, bang on the bang on the dock. That's interesting.

SPEAKER_04 21:24

So obviously we've got 10 o'clock. So we've got 10 o'clock. Heard a sound resembling a man's voice shouting at 10 o'clock bang on. That's actually here, it's not it's not 21.59, it's 10 o'clock dead. And then Laura's saying at 10 o'clock dead, she also she at midnight she hears a man shouting from the dormitory as a medical bay as well.

SPEAKER_03 21:45

Yeah. Um just to touch upon that, because obviously I was team B with Alan and Lisa, and we were talking in the in the um dormitory, and we clearly heard a male's voice, like it it it was clear as day. Um, it was just Just one of those situations where it happened so quickly and it didn't happen again, but but it was like it happened, but we couldn't definitively pinpoint where and who or what or anything like that. Um, but yeah, to answer the question, it was the same area, same uh different team, but the positions were logged. Uh, this wasn't the same sound, the times don't match, but it was the same corridor, the same type of sound, and obviously two separate teams hours apart.

SPEAKER_04 22:28

So Alan has been Alan is not a member of Case, is he? But he's a he works with us quite closely because he's he's fantastic, isn't he?

SPEAKER_03 22:39

Yeah, yeah. So him and um Lisa are guests to Case. They come you know um they've been associated with the team for quite some time now and they you know every n every now and again they'll they'll join us on investigation. But he's one of the most naturally sceptical people. Oh yeah, massively, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 22:56

So for him to come out and go, Did you just hear the man's voice? That's quite worthy of note.

SPEAKER_03 23:04

Yeah, I mean Alan is probably the most naturally sceptical person on the team. Uh even when I speak to him like outside of things, he's still very sceptical in terms of doing his own stuff behind the scenes. He's he's a very sceptical guy, but you know, he he'd be the first one to say, could that be the pipes or could that be the sound of the floor above? It's kind of your rationale anchor in a session, which is exactly what uh which is exactly why what he shared with us matters.

SPEAKER_04 23:34

Because that's that for him to come forward and and present evidence, he's done it. He's been with what he's I think he's done three investigations with me. He's only presented evidence once. Okay. So that's quite significant for him to do that.

SPEAKER_03 23:49

Yeah, I mean, um he's actually been to Kelverdon three times, and each time he's come away with at least one thing he couldn't comfortably file away the first time, and Alan's told this story to the team, but we wanted it on rec record here. He was in the telecoms area on the lower level, uh, not during a formal session, just moving through on his own, checking equipment positions, and he heard his name clearly. Um not was that my name, he turned around expecting to see someone behind him and there was nobody there.

SPEAKER_04 24:22

That's awesome. That's so cool. Matt, who do you think's more sceptical?

SPEAKER_02 24:29

I was just thinking I've had a similar experience to that, but not Kelverdon, unfortunately.

SPEAKER_05 24:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:34

Twice in the house that I now live in. Um and it's happened twice in the same room. Both times when other people have been out of the house, so I knew I was entirely on my own, having a shower in the en suite. And the first time it happened, I heard someone clearly say Matt. Clearly enough that I turned round and expected to see then my uh my wife, as she was at the time, there in the doorway. Nothing. Didn't think much of it. Um happened again probably a few weeks later, in the shower. Matt. Again, I've reacted because I've thought someone's there, nobody there. It's interesting, isn't it? But it's that the minute someone calls your name, there isn't that minute second in your brain that goes, is that really someone calling my name? You react to your name and you turn. So for me, that removes the in Alan's case here. I mean, uh I won't speak for Alan, but I'm guessing that's really hard to explain away, isn't it?

SPEAKER_04 25:29

It's that bit when you're in public, isn't it, and you hear your name and you go, Oh, yeah, and then you realise somebody wasn't talking to you.

SPEAKER_02 25:34

Your brain's hardwired for your name, isn't it?

SPEAKER_04 25:38

Uh but that's that's incredible that he's come away with that, and that you also do, don't you? You naturally go, you hear your name, because my name's not a common name, you know, and I hear Rick and I go, Oh, that's mate. Unless you're called Ricky, then you hear it all the time. Then it's all the time, yeah. But um but that's really interesting that you've both had that sort of similar, oh, that's my name experience. Um, considering that you're both quite sceptical people as well.

SPEAKER_05 26:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 26:08

But terrifying that it happens in your bathroom though when you're naked, that's not okay.

SPEAKER_02 26:14

But you're gonna say, Were you definitely naked then? Uh no, yeah, I was in the shower. But kind of so the water so the water was running, yeah. I wasn't in the middle of the show.

SPEAKER_03 26:22

Again, like you know, water is like a a massive kind of EVP creator, you know, it's source for EVPs.

SPEAKER_02 26:30

Yeah, and it's and I'm in an enclosed space with a you know glass door slid across, so what what sort of resonance does that create? I don't know, but it that fascinates me because it's happened to me. That instant response to your name, that's quite credible, I think.

SPEAKER_04 26:43

Yeah, that was Alan's first visit. Um what happened in his second visit? Because you told me he's done three times and he's come away each time without something that you can explain.

SPEAKER_03 26:53

Yeah, so just to go back on that, Alan's response to that, which is very Alan, was to spend the next 20 minutes trying to work out what else it could have been. So he's going like acoustics sound from another room that he's kind of brain shaped into something familiar. He went through the list, he couldn't get there, he still can't. He's never claimed it to be paranormal, but he's also never been able to explain it. And to answer your question, the second visit, the sick bay, Alan had a piece of equipment that he had set down on the surface, nothing elaborate. He stepped out of the room for maybe three or four minutes, came back, and it had moved, not fallen, but just literally moved, repositioned, and facing a different direction entirely. That's awesome. Could anybody have moved it? Well, he checked, but if you think about it, it was only me and Lisa that were with him, and we we were nowhere near where I didn't even know, even like I didn't know that until I've obviously writ written this that that that was a story that was provided to Dan from Alan. So I didn't know that that even happened, and I'm sure Lisa wouldn't have done it.

SPEAKER_04 27:54

So let me get to the November 2025 is it? And this one has uh stuck with him a little bit more, yeah?

SPEAKER_03 28:04

Yeah, so um during the joint session on the middle floor, while the circle was forming, Alan said he suddenly felt, and very specifically, cold, not a general drop in temperature, like a localized cold on his left hand side only. It was like standing next to something, and then he described this very carefully because he didn't want to kind of overstate it. He had a strong and inexplic inexplicable sense that there was someone standing beside him, not in a threatening manner, not frightening, but just present. Uh he said he almost didn't want to look because he generally uncertaint uh he was generally uncertain of what he would see.

SPEAKER_04 28:40

Just to go away from that, have so my personal experience that one of my personal experiences that brought me here and got me around this table is being felt like I was dunked in ice. You know, that like I don't know if have either of you ever experienced that like just beyond cold. I don't I can't even explain it, but it's not cold like cold to your bones. Yeah, it's not cold like I've just got out of the shower and the noticeable temperature difference is causing me to be cold. It's that I stepped through a hallway into an enclosed space and it felt like I'd just dropped through ice and every hair in my body stood up and it was cold to the bone. Have any of you have either of you two experienced that one?

SPEAKER_03 29:27

Um yeah, I I've I've experienced it in the different in different various different places, but also at home, um, which my house is very well insulated because it's a new home. Um but cold spots just out of the middle of nowhere. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:53

Where was this when this happened?

SPEAKER_04 29:55

So I was um I was at a friend's house. Um her grandparents lived in this sort of like old I don't even know what year it was, but it definitely didn't start with the 19, it was old. Um house in Dymchurch, and they had a great hall, and this hall was massive, and they had a snooker table in it, and all this stuff, and then you went through like a little narrow passageway into the main house. And as I'm walking through this passageway, I'm starting there, and I get to about halfway through the passageway, and I think the significance in this story is that her granddad had just passed away, her nan was no longer live in the house, there was no one actually living in the house anymore, it was an old house that was now not lived in. Um, and I got halfway down it and I just felt every hair on my body stand up, and it was almost from like the ankles upwards, and it came all the way. And you know when you get shivers and you're like, Oh, I get shivers. I could feel every individual hair on my head, on my neck, on my back, everything just went up, and it was like I've been just hugged by you know, I mean, I work in deep freezers every day. It is never I've never been as cold as I was in this moment, and it was just it's really incredible feeling.

SPEAKER_02 31:07

Did you talk to the others? Had they had similar experiences maybe?

SPEAKER_04 31:10

So it's just me and what in the group in case. Yeah, but not not in case, but sorry, the other people that was only one person there with me, and it was my friend, because we were clearing out her. We were helping clear up because they were moving the house and selling it on. Anyway, we go on to experience a door open by itself. Um a door open by itself, and uh there was a s uh an overwhelming smell of like a fishy smell as well in the room, which you know there were there were bits and pieces that happened on that trip that I had been there. I've been going there for 15 years and I've never experienced before. But that that feeling of going cold, like Alan is saying, is why that particular day then?

SPEAKER_02 31:50

You say you've been going there for years. What why do you think this phenomenon on this particular day?

SPEAKER_04 31:57

Um it's an interesting question. Um so obviously the house wasn't lived in anymore. It still had all the stuff it was set up to be lived in. You know, her her mother her her grandmother had been moved into a retirement home and her grandfather had passed away. Um and I don't know if it was a case of uh the place. I don't know. Uh was it was it a case of the place missed people or was it her grandfather or was it something? But I know that in that visit I had a couple of things that I couldn't explain. You know, there was this overwhelming smell of I don't know if you know it's smell that's cooking sprats. My grandmother used to cook them all the time. She was still alive at this point. Um, but that overwhelming smell of cooking sprats hit us in the kitchen. Um and we were sat in the sofa and the door swung open, and it wasn't one of those doors that if you push it to and it will open itself again. It was one of those doors that you almost needs that little that little push. Uh and then of course the the experience of being cold, and I just felt off, and I'm not sure if that's because the place was empty and it wasn't full of life.

SPEAKER_02 33:15

Like it normally the sprout thing is difficult to explain. I think the cold thing go back to what I just said before, that's what that's the idea behind liminality, isn't it? If you walk into somewhere and it's out of context, particularly if it's a house that you previously know and it's full of possessions, but the people, the person that lived there is gone. Um and there's you thinking, okay, this is really out of context now for what I'm used to. I had a similar experience when I walked into my nan's house after she she'd died, and you know, I had to go and sort stuff out. Somewhere I'd grown up, so it'd be my family home, but just standing in the living room looking round me, hearing the silence, thinking of all of the conversations that have taken place and you know the laughter and the arguments and all that jazz. In that moment you get a horrible chill up your spine. It's uh it's not necessarily a chill of dread, it's just that this is odd, this isn't how I remember this place.

SPEAKER_04 34:07

I don't know, it's difficult, it's difficult to explain. It's difficult to explain, you know. I've I've I've been on I've done investigations.

SPEAKER_02 34:17

That's the great thing about what we do, that's the mystery, isn't it? Yeah, everyone's experience is unique. What we don't know is the cause. So Alan get Alan gets this cold, like I've got.

SPEAKER_03 34:26

Yeah. Does he look at him? Yeah, he looked, and then there was nothing visible but the cold and the sense of a presence. Uh stayed with him for several minutes, and then uh when the child descriptions came through from Laura and Dan shortly after, uh, the girl, the red bow, Alan went very quiet because the presence he had felt on his left hand side was small. His words, whatever it was, it was small.

SPEAKER_04 34:50

Do you reckon he was reckoning uh Tricker G held his hand, stood next to him?

SPEAKER_03 34:54

Well, that's what he thinks, and you know, he won't say it definitively, but he'd be the first to tell you he can't prove it. But three visits in and Alan the sceptic thinks he was standing next to a child on the middle floor of Kelverdon Hatch.

SPEAKER_04 35:08

So it changes how he thinks about doing what we do. Has Kelverden changed how you feel about what we do, Matt?

SPEAKER_02 35:17

That's an interesting question. Kelverdon's a difficult one because I think I'm more sceptical about Kelverdon. And people are probably thinking Kenny's man be any more sceptical. But Kelverden is just that that paradox for me. If we talk about other places we'd be in other investigations we've done, then yeah, there there are several of those that have made me think differently about this, in as far as I I can't explain that.

SPEAKER_04 35:50

So it it doesn't change so Kelvin has baffled you but what's it done to Alan?

SPEAKER_03 35:57

Um I asked him that and he said, and I'm paraphrasing, it doesn't change what I believe, but it changes what I'm prepared to consider.

SPEAKER_02 36:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 36:05

And for Alan that's quite enormous to be honest.

SPEAKER_02 36:07

And that makes Alan a credible guy, I think, for the team as well.

SPEAKER_04 36:10

Absolutely. I think if I don't know, I think if you've got people. I think that the nice thing about case is that everybody sort of to an extent wants wants to believe, but we at the same time are absolutely prepared to tear everything apart in in in the search of why wasn't this real? Uh and then when we're left with the bits and pieces we can't explain, that's the that's the nuggets that we're

The Ouija Session That Stunned Everyone (And the Cat Ball Moved On Its Own)

SPEAKER_04 36:38

after, right? Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 36:40

Um and then you did a you did a Ouija session. That was not me, no, that was um that was the other group. So uh quick bit of context before the board comes out, because it matters for what happens next. Um Darren's wife had made him beans on toast before he left the house that evening. And by this point in the night he was, let's say, vocal about the consequences. That's rough. And earlier, um so earlier while the team were going through the dormitory, somebody had spotted a couple of old tins of sitting on a shelf, tins of beans, a tin of spaghetti with a Tesco label on them, just left there, presumably part of the museum. Nobody thought much of it at the time. So, how does that come back then? So it comes back, um, so 16 minutes past midnight, the board starts responding. So it says like S R Q and then yes, and then someone on the team makes a joke about Darren and the beans, just a natural throwaway comment, and the board responds.

SPEAKER_04 37:40

So it's talking nonsense, SRQ, and then it immediately snaps into a response. How does it respond?

SPEAKER_03 37:47

It's gonna be hard for anyone to believe this, but it actually starts spelling slowly beans, spaghetti, and Tesco. The things that were sat on the shelf. The exact things, yeah, which is either a remarkable coincidence given what had just been joked about, or the board picking up on the joke and running with it using what was physically in the room. I don't buy into Ouija boards. I I I've I don't use them, I t I tend to try to avoid them, but I I've um I don't know if I've ever told you this story. Um I went to an old furniture place in Redditch years ago, and it was basically a uh um a warehouse which house clearances had been done. And I was with somebody, um I was with people that I knew investigating this place, did a spirit board section uh session, um, but we also did it with a spirit box running at the same time, and um what was fascinating was was that it connected with this person that I knew, and um I think she said something along the lines of if if if you are who you say you are, uh tell me who your favourite singer was. And no word of a lie, it spelt out the boss, Bruce Springsteen, yeah. So she was like, Yeah, there's no way I I didn't know it, nobody else around the table knew it. So she was like, you know, that's a definitive answer.

SPEAKER_02 39:23

She had her finger on the planchette.

SPEAKER_03 39:25

Um I get what you're saying, you're gonna say she was pushing it.

SPEAKER_02 39:29

Because she wasn't, she wasn't maybe not subconsciously, yeah. I think there's that element of subconscious, yeah, very slight muscle response.

SPEAKER_03 39:36

Yeah, yeah, Darren Brown touched on it, but I I I was watching her fingers and and I'm and I'm I'm like she was not physically pushing down on that glass. Bear in mind there were strangers who had their finger on that glass, yeah. Um but with the spirit box running in the background, I could hear people running up and down the hallways behind us, like, and then heard of a lie. There was some music come in of Bruce Springsteen.

SPEAKER_02 40:10

From where?

SPEAKER_03 40:10

From the spirit box from the spirit box, because obviously it's on an FM3 from frequency.

SPEAKER_02 40:14

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 40:15

And uh and I think it was uh dancing in the dark. Did we say coincidence? Is it just a big coincidence? It was just very simultaneously.

SPEAKER_02 40:23

I mean look, for me Ouija boards uh I'm I think I'm with you on this. They they're a toy. I mean they were originally invented as exactly that. If you look back into the history of them, I think Penn and Teller have in my mind proved that Ouija boards don't work because they remove the one sense that you need for a Ouija board to work, which is eyesight. As soon as you blindfold a load of people, it doesn't spell anything that makes any sort of sense. So while I like to remain open-minded on most of this stuff, that's the one area I really struggle with, really struggle with.

SPEAKER_03 40:58

Yeah, no, and obviously Darren Brown has touched upon this a l a lot in terms of the whole subconscious and doing it. But going back to Kelverdon, um Oh god, what's I can see, I can see what it says. Yeah, so when the team asks it about the price of beans, they can see marked on a tin in the dormitory the board gives 65p. The visible label says 69p.

SPEAKER_04 41:24

So someone with not very good vision has pushed the planchet and says 65p.

SPEAKER_03 41:30

Well, yeah, but it was close, but obviously wrong. But then the device responds with something along the lines of I I am lying or I am joking. So acknowledge the fact that it was wrong. Yeah, so it's acknowledged that it had been messing around.

SPEAKER_04 41:46

Can you could you maybe concede the fact that maybe 99.9 like most things, like 99.99999% of the time, Ouija boards are absolute rubbish. Bunkem. Yeah. Um but m can you maybe accept that there is that 0.000001% of the time when something does connect with it?

SPEAKER_02 42:08

Uh or are you out? I can accept that because I can't provide evidence and that's not the case. Uh I'd be pretty arrogant to say it's an absolute no for me. That's fair.

SPEAKER_03 42:18

But you could say the same thing about the misconception of an orb. It's the same thing. You could. Because a lot of people would dismiss orbs, people would say it's a bug, it's it's uh it's dust, it's you know, this, that. But again, I I have seen definitive orbs which are like one during the day, just walked it was massive, it was big and gold and orange, and it just simply just just just wandered through the living room and went out the went out of the wall. And um I was with someone at the time who witnessed that, and they don't do that.

SPEAKER_02 42:53

I mean that that's harder to explain, this is orbs I think generally might be dust particles, but when it seems to have a a consciousness about it in the way it moves, and then it disappears through a wall, because dust particles don't do that unless I'm wrong. Um I've never I've never seen an orb like more difficult to explain.

SPEAKER_04 43:13

Is it the is it here that I've seen the footage of the two orbs following each other? Uh Kelvin and Hatch. Um 'cause there's a I've seen a video in one of our in one of the case backlog, you know, uh YouTube things where there's an orb that comes into screen and then the the other one follows it almost path for path.

SPEAKER_03 43:35

I mean that's a strange one really to have an I mean you could dismiss one orb, but then to have a second orb follow the other orb, that's a strange yeah. And you you'll establish that when you go to Calvin that it's not a very dusty, dirty kind of place, really.

SPEAKER_02 43:49

But you because you'd have to say that if they are dust particles, if you stick a camera in a room, throw up some air to to push the dust particles up, they're all going to move. Totally random ways mathematically, aren't they? For two of them to follow exactly the same path against a balance of probabilities, probably to happen.

SPEAKER_03 44:08

You're gonna have people watching this kind of just totally dismiss what we're saying right now about orbs. Orbs is dust, orbs are not supernatural, orbs are not paranormal, killer, move on.

SPEAKER_02 44:17

I don't think it's that simple.

SPEAKER_03 44:18

No, it's not. It's like saying that the cat through the spirit box isn't a vis a a physical, actual cat. There was no cat there, it came through on the spirit box. So, you know, um you can't say that it didn't happen because it did. So there we go. Who else is on the board? So you got Dan, Lucy, Darren, um, uh, they had their fingers on the planchette. Sam sat out deliberately. He wanted to be the one watching rather than touching it, so he could keep an eye on hands rather than guess about about it afterwards. And then he saw something. Uh he told us afterwards that at various points different people had taken their fingers off the planchette entirely and it kept moving regardless. Dan turned his face away from the board at once at one moment deliberately, so that he couldn't see the letters. Um and I think uh Laura might have done the same, or she took her finger off the off the planchette entirely as well.

SPEAKER_04 45:23

That's interesting. So nobody's actually making contact with it.

SPEAKER_02 45:26

Um But what was happening to the planchette at that point, just to be clear, sorry. So it's still moving at that point.

SPEAKER_03 45:32

I'm not too sure because I I wasn't actually in that moment, um, but I remember the aftermath because they would we'd had a break at that point because we were going to swap over, and I remembered them walking in uh to the break area, and like Dan was shaking his head, and like they were all like kaffuddled and like what's up, and they were like, You just wouldn't believe what's happened, and I was like, Okay, what? And Dan was like it just doesn't make any sense. To have uh a Ouija board session kind of spell spaghetti and beans and and Tesco, Tesco's an odd one, right? Um, because you expect devil is Tesco around in the 1950s, 60s? I'm not too sure. Yeah, yeah, okay. Well, it's an odd one anyway. But according to Sam, not everyone at once, but at different points, individual fingers was were were off and it didn't stop. Um, and he was watching specifically for that because it's the obvious explanation for that people reach for, and he didn't see anything that explained it, uh explained it away.

SPEAKER_04 46:38

So it's just interesting that um if this is an entity it somewhat has a sense of humour.

SPEAKER_03 46:46

Yeah, you could say that. Um something that just repeats answers back at you as well, that could be the equipment, it could be interference, could be a hundred things, right? Uh something that clocks a joke, plays along, keeps the board moving with no hands on it, that requires something more.

SPEAKER_04 47:03

Hi guys, it's Rick from the Case Files. If you like what you're hearing today, please like, subscribe, follow us on all streaming platforms, and follow us on YouTube. So then we move on from that. Anna 0058, so two minutes to one, we've got a cat ball.

SPEAKER_03 47:20

Yeah, the cat ball is found to have moved approximately eight feet from the dormitory into the medical room, switched on, no team member had seen it move, and no one had heard it activate during the movement.

SPEAKER_04 47:33

So that's interesting. Um because obviously if the cat ball was on the floor, you could you can't it it can it can tip over slightly one way or the other and it might move eight inches.

SPEAKER_02 47:51

I mean, I think I'd say that that place is is built for for the military. There there ain't no gradient on any of those slight positions. They're as they're as flat as flat as a pancake, so I doubt there's any role on any surfaces at all.

SPEAKER_04 48:04

No. But I mean you could even if there was, you could you could accept eight inches and go, yeah, it's the gravity's tilted it slightly and it's it's it's toppled to the left or toppled to the right, but eight feet's a distance.

SPEAKER_02 48:19

Yeah, you need some form of momentum to move anything eight feet, don't you? Particularly a ball. And you know when you kick one of those, don't you? You know when you kick one.

SPEAKER_00 48:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 48:26

Yeah. Um so yeah, I mean it's an explanation that we haven't found as yet. And if anyone had moved it, the ball was on, you would have

A Child's Giggle in an Empty Bunker

SPEAKER_03 48:35

seen it activate, you would have heard it, but nobody did.

SPEAKER_04 48:38

Uh right, so I'm looking through here later that night. Oh, a child's giggle.

SPEAKER_03 48:45

Uh both Sam and Dan uh hear what sounds like a child giggling, and the question that immediately comes up, given what had come through on the lower lower levels uh hours earlier, is whether this is connected to I am seven, a child giggling in a nuclear bunker dormitory in these small hours of the morning, and obviously that image stays with you. Well that's funny. I I've never heard a child, but I mean this is a this isn't this is something new, like I was saying, like you know, will we go back in September and will that child then r reappear or you know, re-establishes that connection that that that it had with us previously, you know? So let me go from but would it re-establish to other people, you know, like myself, like you know.

SPEAKER_04 49:31

Hopefully it establishes to me in a full frontal appos uh uh apparitional full frontal apparition. So not the back. Not the back. Okay. Because I can mistake that.

SPEAKER_01 49:42

Head tucked underarm?

SPEAKER_04 49:43

Yes, head tucked underarm. Yeah, yeah. The whole ch Rally and chains, the whole stereotype, the whole the whole shebang. I want the whole lot. Just and then I can quit. I can go back. That's the thing, you couldn't could you even if even if you even if you got absolute definitive proof in your mind that all of this was real, because of the high that you'd be on from that, you'd never be able to stop, would you? No.

SPEAKER_02 50:10

No, I think we all chase something that in any normal state of of being, most people would say I don't want to see, but if you did see it, once you'd got over the shock and the fear, you'd be back for more. I think my all of us would, that adrenaline would be amazing.

SPEAKER_04 50:24

So are what we do, is what we do insanity? Because even if Insanity Even if you speak for yourself. I'm sorry, even if all three of us right now sat here and an apparition appeared right there and said to us, Krabby, Rick, Matt, I'm a ghost. I died, this and that, and then this is where I died, this is where I'm buried, look me up, I'm verified, and then they put their hand through your chest and they grab your heart and you and and and you can fit and then that was definitive, this is a ghost. You still wouldn't be able to stop.

SPEAKER_03 51:01

Well, if it's gonna clutch your heart, you'd be dead.

SPEAKER_02 51:03

Because all that does is it closes off some questions but it opens up others, and that's what this is about was the hunt for uh Homme Frances, isn't it?

SPEAKER_03 51:10

It's the Homme Frances that inevitably will never end. It is interesting you say that, and I'm just gonna go off topic here a little bit because Matt has recently been to Stratford upon Avon and nobody knows, but I asked Matt to check out a location that I'm still trying to very much kind of go back to. Unfortunately, the building is now closed. But the person who originally owned this building used to be visited by this guy who didn't know that he was dead. She would have the same conversation with him every four to six months. He would walk, he would come into the room, he would appear, and she would say, Do you know that you're dead? And he would say, Don't be stupid, woman, what are you talking about? I'm not dead. Now why are you in my home? And she would say, This is not your home anymore. You're dead, you need to move on. He would then disappear, and then he would go through the same rigmarole six months later, and they would have the same conversation over and over again. Imagine getting bored. But but again, this is uh this is uh very similar to Kelvidon in terms of a stone tape theory, is that maybe just simple things are just on a continuous loop, they're caught in time.

SPEAKER_02 52:16

Yeah, but you've got a crossover there, you've because you've got stone tape theory, but you've got intelligence there with the interaction as well, haven't you? So it can't just be simply a playback. Otherwise it wouldn't interact with her.

SPEAKER_03 52:27

But he doesn't say anything else. He he doesn't, you know, it's like he's on a script.

Séance, Physical Marks & Something Standing in the Doorway

SPEAKER_02 52:31

You just think she slipped away into the script quite nicely.

SPEAKER_04 52:34

Okay, back to Kelvin and we've got top floor, bottom floor, middle floor, joint session. Let's go.

SPEAKER_03 52:41

Yeah, so before a scheduled break, both teams come together on the middle floor, and this is where the night shifts. So it's already mental. How does it shift? Uh so the team form a circle, fairly common technique, you know, energy circles, building the energy crate and a focused session with the combined group. And what happens during that circle for me is one of the most significant things of the entire night. Oh, physical marks. Yeah, so um the physical marks, Dan experienced a sharp jab-like sensation to the back of his neck during the session, following followed by itching. Later in the night, a visible mark is noted resembling what looks like a puncture mark whilst he uh so whilst he's standing in the circle. Lucy at a different point in the same session experiences the same sensation but on her hand, also leaving a visible mark. And Laura later reports a similar sensation on the top of her head.

SPEAKER_04 53:33

So it's three people, three different places in the body, uh same sensation, same session. Is there is this getting bitten by something?

SPEAKER_01 53:44

Or did we did we record the marks? Did we have photographs on them?

SPEAKER_03 53:50

Again, good question. Don't have the answer to that. Yeah, if there are pictures Laura Dan, chuck them in there now. Yeah, if there are pictures, we'll we'll follow up on that. Um but yes, um kind of got to be careful what we say because we're not claiming that these are definitively paranormal either. What we're saying is that it's that it's three investigators in the same session, independently reported as a specific and unusual physical sensation that left visible marks. We documented it. We photographs. We did photograph it, sorry. I should have checked that before I actually uh started speaking, but yes, it was photographed. I actually haven't seen those photos, I don't think, so it would be interesting to kind of look back on that, and we cannot explain it through normal means.

SPEAKER_04 54:32

So obviously that's quite um significant thing to happen. Um would did anybody leave? Anybody decide this is not for them?

SPEAKER_03 54:41

No, uh because we're an experienced bunch of investigators, right? So it was noted, it was documented, just kept going. And then the visual phenomena, Darren reports seeing a black entity step away from the circle and into a small room. He describes it as an unpleasant in appearance. Meanwhile, myself, positioned elsewhere in the same session, I see a shimmer to the left of this doorway. I kind of then I I blink and then I look again, and then I see this black figure take a step to the right, and it's in the right of the right of the door frame, like the door frame, but I don't see the the full kind of the full-on apparition. I kind of see it from kind of like uh like a partial you know, partial view. But the strange thing was was they had a curved horn-shaped thing on its head.

SPEAKER_04 55:35

That's really interesting to me, because obviously you hear people go, I saw a go I saw a ghost, I blinked, I looked away and it was gone. You've just said to me, I saw something, I've blinked, I've looked back, and it's still there.

SPEAKER_03 55:50

Now I think this shimmer, if you if you describe what a shimmer is, it's almost like a heat-hay shimmer, right? If you think Stargate, the portal, shimmer of water, that kind of thing, right? That's why I mentioned it. Um so I see the shimmer. Now for me, I'm thinking, is this the start of the manifestation, or is this a portal that this thing is coming out of? Um but because it happened again so quickly, it's like I see it, I blink, and then I see it take a step to the right. And the thing was like well over seven foot because I I I could only partially make out part of what of what I could see on on its head.

SPEAKER_02 56:28

Um is this the resurgence of the top lowed woman, do you think? Is that similar?

SPEAKER_03 56:35

I I w to me it's not a fem I don't think that's female. No. I I think this is a I think this is the um the entity that was running.

unknown 56:46

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 56:47

So I don't know what you want to call it. I don't I don't know what it is, but it it's it's some form of manifestation that has been created on that floor and it's stuck on that floor, and I think again, in terms of it being on a loop, I think it it basically starts in that in that room.

SPEAKER_02 57:05

Do you think it's human or ever was human?

SPEAKER_03 57:08

I don't know. Um I still believe that maybe this has been created by another group that's come in, whether it be through a Ouija board, through some sort of seance, and it wasn't closed properly. Because it if you look at it, it's well out it's it's well out of context, right? It's not it it it doesn't make sense for anything like that to be in a new in a new an old nuclear bunker, right?

SPEAKER_02 57:28

I'd argue that it makes more sense if we go back to a theory that we discussed in the last session that you know the UK Essex has got a real, you know, primordial past, hasn't it? Even going back to the Britons. If you take the view, and I think I mentioned it in the last session of elementals, something that is ancient, is old, was never human, I think that actually makes more sense to me as to why that might be there, because uh there would have been a lot of disturbance in creating the bunker than actually the proposition of a spirit of a person, which there are a bit less of in the bunker. So I can find some I can find some credibility in that.

SPEAKER_03 58:12

To be honest with you, um I only kind of knew about elementals and on all that since Luci uh since Laura's come to the to the team. I've never really had the never really kind of had the the the interest or the I don't know the This podcast has brought us into a lot deeper waters. It's an area of a subject area that I've just not familiar with and maybe I've just been ignorant to it, but but yeah, like I would need to do further research into kind of what I have seen, what Darren has seen, because we're very similar in terms of you know how he saw it and how I saw it. Is it an elemental and look up that elemental and there might be also people that have drawn written about it and and it could have characteristics that that that do match that.

SPEAKER_02 59:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 59:02

So we've got you and Darren, same session, same different positions, but you both see the same figure. Yes. Um but then But not for the first time either, obviously. No, of course. Um but then there's Ben.

SPEAKER_03 59:14

Yes, so um he he wanted me to to make sure that we um uh told the story about the fire door. Because Ben, very much like Alan, is not someone who just jumps to conclusion. He's he's very measured and very sceptical by nature and he's very m methodical about how he accounts for things as well. And during the night on the middle floor, he watched one of the fire doors that that what the ones that lead to the stairwell just kind of simply close on its own.

SPEAKER_04 59:43

Just on its own, just but I mean aren't fire doors designed to close, isn't that what they're for?

SPEAKER_03 59:49

Um well this one, I mean, um it it was it was closed unassisted, which I don't think it's supposed to do. And I know what people will immediately think that it was a draft, air pressure, someone on the other side. So let's go through it. The door before it leading into the area was locked, so nobody could have come through from that direction. Every team member was accounted for at the time, nobody was near that door, and the bunker is underground, so it's kind of a sealed concrete structure. So there aren't really any drafts that could cause that door to simply close that way. And it was, you know, it was tested during the uh the investigation um whether the the opening or closing of other doors in the building creates enough of a pressure change to move that particular door, and it doesn't, just literally could not replicate um that door being closed the way they saw it.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:43

And I think what we know about fire doors generally is they are designed to be heavy items, aren't they? Of course, um whether they be in a nuclear bunk or in a flat, because they have to be. So they're not easily blown open. In fact, sometimes they're not easily propped open because of their weight.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:59

And and and we just have to kind of make that clear that there are parts of Kelverdon that are actually locked off that nobody can access. There's a lot of doors there that aren't accessible.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:07

Um ruled out the obvious explanations, um, work through them.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:14

Yeah, so we worked through them one by one, and Ben worked through them himself in that moment, because that's how we operate. He's not saying it's paranormal, he's very clear on that, but he's equally clear that he cannot explain what he saw. Again, a heavy fire door sealed in an underground bunker with every team member accounted for, and that was just simply closing on its own.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:34

And that's obviously in the middle of everything else that's happening with the shadows and the weedy brood and the bottom, the top floor, it's seems like quite a crazy place.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:44

Yeah, well, I I mean, it was a crazy night, I'm I'm not gonna lie.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:49

So But that's an interesting point. So if you just stop and think about what you've said, a lot's happened, a lot's gone on. So, what's the expectation of people here at the moment at Kelverden in this moment? Primed. Yeah, heavily primed. So And we're not saying I'll throw that in there like a bit of a grenade and just leave that.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:08

We're not saying the thing is that we're not sitting here saying like all of this is paranormal. Um, this is the reason that we have this group and this podcast is because we'll have people like Matt Matt sit here and go, Yeah, but you're all primed. You were all you were all ready to experience the paranormal and anything that was going on because of what had already what had already occurred that may have been paranormal, you're automatically def defaulting to experiencing the paranormal. This is why this is crucial, so you can sit here objectively and go, No, you know, that's that's a fire door, it's designed to close, you know. I don't know if that's paranormal or not. But I think it's up to the evidence to prove to me that it's paranormal, not for me to determine whether or not the evidence is.

unknown 1:02:55

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:55

Forget what I mean.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:57

So yeah, so in the middle of everything else, and um if that door had closed on a quiet night with nothing else going on, you might just file it completely different. But it happened during the joint session, during the circle, during the same stretch of time that produced the physical marks and the shadow sighting. So you just can't look at it as in its kind of uh own isolated incident.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:19

I think you do. I think you need to. I think each of these individual I think you I think each of these individual items, I think you need to break them down and go, actually, you know, unless it's like what you and Darren saw, which is the same thing. I think that you need to individually go, right, there's ten things that happened here, these two are the same. You can look at them and go, right, these are the same thing. Uh you can look at them and go, these are the same thing, and you go, Oh, there's a door closed there. I think that you've got to definitively break it down and go, actually, you can't look at these as a group of as a group of um instances, you've got to look at them as individuals.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:50

I agree. I think you've got to investigate each on its merits, you've got to give each the same amount of time.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:56

Yeah, I mean what's interesting as well is that that that that evening the team was supposed to be bigger that night, but they had a lot of people that couldn't attend last minute. Both you and Matt, I think there was maybe about three others that couldn't make it as well that night. So I knew it'd be maritime for you mentioned it. It made no, but it made it made it it made it more interesting because there were less people investigating.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:16

I wish I'd been marked up in a circle.

A Lady and a Child — Spotted on the Middle Floor

SPEAKER_03 1:04:19

We can do that next time.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:21

Um so that we had a child. I am seven. Uh so Laura picks up on this presence.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:31

Um you know she picks up on the fact that it's a lady with curly hair, apparently standing behind me. She senses it in terms of a a family member, someone that's connected to me, which is you know quite incredible. And then a young girl. She describes the child's clothing, she mentions a bow. Crappy, at one point did you have curly hair?

SPEAKER_04 1:04:49

Because of senior kids.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:51

I may have done. I may have done. I have no idea. Have no idea.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:55

Uh so then Dan say Dan independently picks up on something as well.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:00

Um yeah, so Dan independently picks up on a face. The hair gives a description before comparing notes with Laura, so dark blonde, curly hair, dark eyes, a red bow.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:09

Well when you just for my benefit, when you say picks up on a face, what do you mean by that?

SPEAKER_03 1:05:14

Um yeah, so sit sees it in his kind of mind's eye if you want to.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:19

Dan's got a weird little um Dan's got a weird little thing going on. He's he's got this not as I mean, Laura calls herself a medium. Um I think Dan's a little bit sensitive and he's got this little thing where I don't know, I think he's got this little thing inside of him where um where he picks up on on random bits and pieces that might be relevant.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:40

I I think the longer you go and do this type the you do kind of tune into it.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:44

Yeah. I I kind of feel that as well in terms of I I pick up on energy and um I don't see full on apparitions, even though I have seen one in Calvin, but I don't see it at any other given time. But in terms of energy and um Picking up on kind of notions of different things and uh you know having stuff happen in my own home.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:05

Um so do you believe that that is um the longer you're exposed, the more open to it you are, or the longer you're exposed, the more delusional you become.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:14

Well, that's an episode for you in like say five years, ten years' time. Yes, that is that is an episode for me then, yeah. So if you're still doing this in ten years' time, I'm not sure either.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:22

The longer you're exposed, you become more open or closed-minded, I guess.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:25

Yeah. And it's interesting you say, I want to see full frontal rather than someone from the back, because they always um differentiate that if you see someone who's got their back to you, it means psychologically you're not ready and open enough to actually to to to to kind of be you're almost afraid.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:45

It's similar to that dream, isn't it? I think the similar dream interpretation where you see people full on or they've always got their back to you.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:52

That's interesting. I didn't know that. Yeah. See that that was a subconscious thing I said.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:57

Well, you you you have spiritual guides if you want to believe it. You have spiritual guides that prevent you from being scared, prevent you from being hurt, prevent you from kind of being open enough to have um supernatural paranormal activity that's gonna freak you the hell out. There's there's there's obviously some sort of measure, there's some sort of measure in place there that prevents you from from being uh scared and and wanting to accept what you've seen, perhaps.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:26

But that description from Dan is obviously that's word for word, the same as Laura's which is significant.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:32

Yeah, so obviously two experienced investigators, the same session, the same child, the same details, described independently before comparing notes. So yeah, it's it's uh it's pretty good.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:41

So I don't have an explanation for Dan giving the exact same um description as Laura. Do you does anybody else? No.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:51

In short, no other than priming, but I can't see where the priming's gone on in that scenario.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:56

So No, Laura's not gone to Dan like I'm saying I'll girl.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:59

No.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:00

So Dan receives the name Sally as well. A device responds with Elizabeth and Laura describes the child as stroking her hair as if she's curious, as if she knows the group is there and she's deciding on how to engage with them.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:11

So uh the I am seven from the lower levels earlier. Um that's an interesting little comeback to this, isn't it?

SPEAKER_03 1:08:19

Yeah, I mean we we can't confirm it, but the Fred is there, a child, seven years old, present in the bunker, making contact across the whole night from the lower levels to the middle floor, giggling in the dormitory, introducing herself hours before anyone knew she was there, and that is one of the primary reasons why we're going back to Kelverdon in September.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:38

Um but obviously we then hit a break. Yeah. Um which we do in every um which we do in every uh every investigation, which is always tense as well, because we always sit there during the break and one team looks at the other and we're looking at each other, going, What have you experienced? And the other team's going. Nothing. And then and then you're going, No, we've not experienced anything either. And then you come back at the end of it all and you go, actually, this is what we did.

Shadow Figure Caught on the Middle Floor

SPEAKER_04 1:09:02

But that's always a tense break. But there was more activity after that.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:07

Yeah, so there was a shadow figure on the opposite side of the room after the cameras were repositioned. Laura saw an ambient ambient light being blocked out, moving from left to right in the same area. Sam felt what seemed like a touch or a breath on his neck. Multiple team members reported cold spots, prickly sensations, and fluctuating temperatures across the remainder of the session. Uh the middle floor was active from the moment the circle formed through to the end of the night.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:31

Right, okay. So, right here, um I'm gonna say bookmark. We're back in Kelvin, September. First thing we do, middle floor circle.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:41

Um it depends. It depends on how many people are gonna be there at that given time because that's easier said than done. The the only reason that happened last was because the group was small. Or do we get the same? So if you've got 16 people, you're gonna have to have, you know, um a bunch of people on the top, bunch of people in the middle, and a bunch of people lower. That's how it has to be done. So it didn't I hear what you're saying, um, but yeah, it may not materialize as that easy as you're saying.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:09

Interestingly, I think when I think about it, apart from the comms room and all the typewriters and stuff in, most of the rooms aren't actually that big in Calverdon, are they? If you wanted to have a big group of people, no, like the medic room, the the um bunk room, you struggle to get the marrow, isn't it?

SPEAKER_04 1:10:24

Because there's so much stuff in there. Yeah. So we're gonna move into the most significant piece of evidence we think we've caught, yeah?

SPEAKER_03 1:10:30

Yep. The EVP. Um post-investigation review, we go for all the footage, the handheld cameras, the voice recorders, and the static locked-off cameras. The locked-off cameras are positioned in areas where investigators are not present, uh, specifically to capture anything that happens when no one is around. So uh on the middle floor we had a static camera running through the night, and during a review we found it. Uh, a brief isolated sound on the audio and vocal in cap in character.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:07

So what point was that captured?

SPEAKER_03 1:11:10

Uh where were the teams? At a point during the night when team A were on the top floor and team B were on the lower level, there was actually nobody on the middle floor. Nobody was near the camera.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:21

And you don't think the voices could have transferred through the through the place? Like you said, it's already quite a dead in place, you don't get that noise transference?

SPEAKER_03 1:11:28

No, no. From a room with no investigators present on a camera left running precisely for this reason, and it doesn't coincide with visible movement on the footage. There's there's no one walking past, there's no team member who recalls speaking at the time it was captured, and no one uh no one on either team was positioned anywhere near where the sound would have been that would have needed to originate from.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:49

And did did we consider the sound travelling through the structure uh upon investigation program?

SPEAKER_03 1:11:54

Yeah, yeah. So it's the first thing we consider. The the bunkers acoustics are unusual as it is. We said that at the top of the episode, but sounds can travel through concrete in unexpected ways, but we couldn't identify a source. There's no team activity logged at that time that would produce the sound, nothing on the team A or team B logs that matches that either.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:13

So that's interesting. So you've got a vocal characteristics captured by a lot of camera, onocopram. Go on in Matt, give it a swing.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:21

Look, I uh EVPs are for me one of the few pieces of paranormal evidence I genuinely enjoy discussing because at least we're dealing with a recording rather than you know a memory. Um but they come with a problem, and that problem is that human beings are pattern recognition machines. Um there's the famous example discussed on uncanny, um, which involves the talking toy, which many of you may know. If you don't, you can certainly look it up on YouTube. People listen to the same recording and heard completely different phrases coming out of the same toy. Once they were told what they were supposed to hear, they then couldn't unhear it.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:55

Um that's um that's um brainstorm green needle. Correct.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:02

And the recording never changed, what changed is the listener. That's why I think EVP isn't really a recording test, it's a perception test. Now, look, it's a challenge to case. What I think I'd love to see is a blind analysis. Put the Kelverden clip online without any explanation and ask 50 people what they hear. I think most of them might independently report the same phrase. If that happens, then you've got something genuinely quite compelling. Yes. What interests me here is look, this isn't unexplained, lots of recordings are unexplained. What interests me is that it appears to come from an unoccupied area and that you're actively trying to rule out the obvious sources, and that's exactly you know what a good investigation should look like.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:40

Yeah. And it's on it's on our YouTube channel, so the link is in the show notes. We we generally want people to watch it, we want people to listen to it, and we want them to form their own opinion and tell us what they think they hear, like you're saying. Um, because I don't think there's been a definitive kind of I think it says this. So the more ears on it, the better. We're not sitting on it, we're not putting it out there because that's what you do with something you can't explain. You share it, you invite scrutiny.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:05

But yeah, if you think it's BS and you've got an explanation for it, say that. We we want to be wrong, well we don't want to be wrong, but we do want an explanation for it if it isn't paranormal.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:15

Yeah, the fact it's unexplained is not the same thing as proving it's paranormal, is it? It absolutely makes it just worthy of further investigation.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:21

Yeah. So after all the hours, all the investigations, years and years and years doing this work, um is this the most significant moment and and what does that what does that mean for us?

SPEAKER_03 1:14:32

Um it's not triumphant in terms of oh, we've proved it, it's more like this is why we do it. This is the moment where the work justifies itself, not because it proves anything, but because it opens the door.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:44

And I'm assuming that

The Tulpa Theory: Could They Have Created This Themselves

SPEAKER_04 1:14:46

that will open the door back up to us in September when we go back. Indeed, it does. Yeah. Um so stepping back from the individual moments, um, let's take the whole night as a as a whole. Um, what's everybody's thoughts on Kelvdon Hatch overall?

SPEAKER_03 1:15:03

Um, my honest read is this Kelvin is a location that produces consistent consistent, wide-ranging activity across multiple types of experiences, auditory, visual, physical, communicative, and critically across multiple investigation uh investigators who weren't comparing notes in the moment. Uh the cooperations between team members, the child descriptions, the shadow figures, the sight-ins, the sounds logged independently at similar times, those are the things that move this from interesting to significant.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:32

Except we've got Matt, growl, significant amount of years before. Got the whole group hearing a growl this year, we've got shadow figures from one year to the next, we've got random people on Facebook saying I'm hearing animals in the in the lower level. Do you think there's an animal entity down there? It's quite compelling when all of this stuff individually it's nothing. When you start to group it together, it becomes quite significant, right? And that's you know, even the names Annie's, you know, Annie, Ralph, Gabrielle, Sally. It's a lot of names to come out as well. Um and especially when some you know arrive at the same time, that's quite significant.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:07

Yeah, I mean they're arrived on multiple devices simultaneously, uh in response to direct questions, whether any of those names actually connect to the real history of the site. That's something we're actively researching. There might be records, there may be nothing, but we're we're still looking.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:21

Yeah, so obviously we've we've said yeah. We believe that Calverton Hatch is uh a of a place worthy of further study. Um but we've also got to then take a little pinch of soul and say it is that the environment does play its part in that as well, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_03 1:16:37

Yeah, so obviously the the there's a psychological effect of being in a space that was built to be sealed. Your rational brain registers even if you're experienced enough to not let it run away with you. Uh we account for all of that, we build into how it will interpret when we find it, and after accounting for all of it, there's still a column of unexplained events that longer uh that's longer than anything we can comfortable comfortably dismiss. Matt, you agree?

SPEAKER_02 1:16:59

Yeah, I think my overall view of Celverden hasn't really changed, and but that's because what fascinates me is it's a paradox. It's Kelverden is basically an underground cobalt office block, isn't it? Um and the entire bunker exists because Britain was preparing for a catastrophe that thankfully never arrived. So it's it's a bit like an underground monument to an anticipated tragedy rather than an actual tragedy. As a sceptic, I don't find it surprising that people experience unusual things there. Deep underground, no natural light, strange acoustics, isolation, the constant awareness of why the place was built. It's almost a perfect psychological environment for generating powerful experiences. I think the question for me is whether those experiences tell us something about spirits or whether they tell us something fascinating, more fascinating about how the human brain reacts when placed in an an uh an extraordinary environment.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:52

So coming into this, Lucy um has put something out there to me for to put to you guys. Um I know Krabby you're aware of it as well. Um it it it sort of goes it goes quite deeper into what you and Darren saw and maybe what you heard, Matt, and maybe what people are experiencing there. Um do you want to present it, Grabby?

SPEAKER_03 1:18:14

Yeah, so that it's called the Tulpa Theory.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:16

So tell me what what what is the Tulpa theory?

SPEAKER_03 1:18:19

Uh so the Tulpa in the broader sense is an entity, an entity that is fought of into existence. So a presence that has been collectively created through focused human attention and belief over time, and Lucy thinking is this that Calvin and Hatch has had thousands of visitors over the years: investigators, ghost hunters, curious members of the public, people who have gone in already prime to expect something, all of them bringing their attention, their energy, their expectation into the same space. And Lucy's question, what if that accumulation of focused human belief has actually created something, not summoned something that was already there, but manifested something that wasn't?

SPEAKER_04 1:18:57

Something that has never been human. Um what do you think?

SPEAKER_02 1:19:01

Yeah, I I like it. It's an interesting theory. Um and unlike a lot of paranormal ideas, it potentially makes it quite testable. This is less about whether it's right or wrong, I think. It's come from Lucy, credible person, as a suggested experiment. If you deliberately create a fictional identity before entering the bunker, uh and details of that identity start appearing through different investigators, different different uh events that go on, different devices, different rooms, then you've learned something important. Now, whether you've again learned something about spirits, uh collective psychology or expectation bias, that's another matter entirely. But as a sceptic, I love experiments like this because most paranormal claims are incredibly difficult to test. This one actually is a good call by Lucy.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:49

If it has never been ever human, it doesn't know how to present itself as one, it doesn't have a form to draw on, and that would account for why the descriptions of the figure on the middle floor don't quite match. Darren sees a black entity stepping away from the circle, unpleasant in appearance. I see a shimmer, and then a partial black figure which looks like a curved horn, stepping towards the door frame, same session, same space, same general impression, but the details shift because what they're seeing is something that is still working out how to appear. Something assembled from the energy of everyone who was ever walked into that bunker, expecting to find something.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:21

That's um that's interesting if if the power of the human mind is sufficient enough that as a collective we can think something into existence. It's quite unsettling, really, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 1:20:32

Yeah. Well, I mean we know expectation influences perception. Yeah, I think people find patterns and meaning when they share a common idea.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:45

You can find patterns and meaning and there's actually thinking something into existence. That's significantly different.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:51

That's a whole different level of psychology, isn't it? Is it even psychology? It's probably more metaphysics, isn't it? It's crazy, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:58

It's crazy. Um but yeah, it's it's it's unsettling, wasn't really prepared for that.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:03

No, I mean, you know, it's one of those ideas that once you've heard it you can't quite put it back down, um, and it doesn't rule out the other things we experience that night, the child, the names, the physical sensations, uh, those could be entirely separate. But the figure, the dark presence on the middle floor, that nobody can quite describe the same way Lucy's theory fits it better than anything else that we can come up with. Is there a way to actually test that topa theory? Well, this is something that we're gonna try when we go back into September. The logic is that if the figure really is something built from a collective attention rather than something that was already there, it doesn't have a fixed identity of its own yet. So we're gonna give it one deliberately as an experiment, not because we believe it to be true. So, how do you give it an identity? Um, so meaning before we go in, we agree as a team on a name uh on a name for it, an occupation, a rough era that it would have been alive in, a cause of death. We hold that identity in mind going in. We don't share the details outside the team, and then we see what comes back across the different equipment and sessions over the course of the night. Spirit box in one room, spirit talker in another, in a separate group asking unrelated questions somewhere else entirely. So then what happens if all the details start lining up? Then it tells us something important, doesn't it? Not necessarily that the theory is right, but that whatever's down there is responsive to expectation in a way uh genuine, uh genuine residual presence with its own fixed identity probably wouldn't be if it starts answering to the name we've invented in places we didn't suggest it through people who don't

Is Kelvedon Hatch Really Haunted? The Verdict

SPEAKER_03 1:22:34

know what we chose, that's a real result either way.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:37

Quite clever.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:38

That's the hope, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:22:40

Um so we'll finish with the ultimate question. Is Kelvin Hatch haunted, Matt? Yes or no?

SPEAKER_02 1:22:49

Uh no. If you want, if you want, if you want to a black and white answer, look, it's it's a unique place in it it occupies a unique place in in British law, I think, in British folklore, not because it's the most haunted location necessarily, but because it's one of the few locations where the atmosphere itself may be doing much of the heavy psychological lifting, if I'm honest.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:17

The word haunted, no. I think Kelverton Hatch is a location that remembers, I think it may be becoming something more than that. Whether the word haunted actually fits, I'll leave that to the listener and anybody else who walks in there.

SPEAKER_04 1:23:31

So obviously we are going back.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:33

Yep, going back already confirmed we go back in September 26 this year. Um the lower telecoms room is a specific reason we're going back. Um Yeah, so the lower telecoms room, the electronic voice that was heard by Dan and Laura. Um so that happened even before the investigation began. So they want to run a dedicated session in that room, a small group, static recording equipment, focused question, give it the attention it deserves rather than it just kind of um being one stop on a larger night. And we want the child as well. The child seven, Sally, Elizabeth, the matching descriptions from Laura and Dan. We want to go back specifically to continue that Fred, more targeted sessions in that area uh where those responses came from, more time, more patience. We've got more cameras this time as well. Yeah, we've got a lot more cameras, um, so we can kind of do locked-off cameras in more areas. The 2025 EVP came from a single locked-off camera on the middle floor, so we want multiple cameras running on all three levels in occupied unoccupied areas. If things happen when no one is watching, we want to catch more of them.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:34

That film review is gonna be brutal. Um, and the identity test, obviously, for the black mass thing.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:40

Yeah, Lucy's Tulpa Theory, and September is when we actually put it into practice, decide on a name and occupation and an era, cause of death before we go in, and we'll see what see what comes back across the night.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:50

Alright, Matt, if there's anything that you've heard in this episode that you want to go back and poke a little bit more with a stick and see what comes out, what is it?

SPEAKER_02 1:24:58

Uh well, the Tulpa Theory, the Tulpa Theory is going to be interesting. Top one, yeah. Yeah. I think an interesting uh enhancement to that would also be if you've got ten people going to Kelverdon, for instance, to try the Tulpa theory with eight of those people and for investigation purposes exclude two of those people from it so they know nothing about it. That that adds a little bit more spice to the uh Kelverden curry in my view.

SPEAKER_04 1:25:23

Let's do that. That's a good idea. I like that. Well, I'm gonna be there. Crab, are you gonna be there? I hope to be there. Matt, you there?

SPEAKER_02 1:25:30

I will definitely be there.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:32

Fantastic duties pending. So I mean, obviously, having heard the stories, listened to the experience of the last year. Um what do you what are you guys thinking about the up-and-coming investigation in September? Have you decided on where you would like to spend more time, perhaps? Or is it just a case of turning up and taking it all in having not been there before in your instance? Matt, obviously, you've been there before, but is there a significant place of interest that you want to focus your energy on? Hopefully we haven't built this up so much that zero things happen. But my advice is to go in there with no anticipation, relax your mind, close yourself off if anything say if anything um is going to happen, then for me that's when I've had my own experiences when I'm not thinking about it.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:13

Yeah. Map room for me. Looking forward to revisiting the map room.

SPEAKER_04 1:26:17

And I'm gonna be just happy to be there, quite honestly, just given how it is. Take it in. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:22

Yeah. And uh if you're a listener who has had a personal experience from Kelvin and Hatch that you'd like to share with us, then please get in touch. Find us on social media, drop us an email. Um, and if

Outro

SPEAKER_03 1:26:33

if there are accounts out there that we haven't heard, we want to hear from them as well. This this investigation is very much ongoing.

SPEAKER_04 1:26:38

So that is episode nine, part two of the case files and the end of our Kelvin and Hatch two-parter. Thank you everybody for coming on this journey with us. Thank you for Matt for giving your time for us as well, mate. Um, if you've made it through both episodes, we realise it was a long one, but thank you genuinely, it really does mean a lot to us. Um, and if uh as we are returning to Kelvin in a couple of months' time, we'll bring you part three of Kelvin and the Hatch once we've had time to go through you know 40 hours of video and film um and tell you any other further findings and stories we hopefully will experience in September.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:12

Yeah, and to reiterate, the EVP clip is on our YouTube channel. The link is in the show notes. Go watch it, tell us what you're hearing. If you want to visit uh Kelvin and your hatch yourself as a museum as a day out, if someone who just wants to walk that tunnel, the details are in the show notes too. Honestly, it's a remarkable place. Go and see it. Uh, again, Matt, thanks so much for joining us on these episodes as well. Really appreciate it. And then obviously, you'll be back for for part three because you're going to the investigation in September, so that would be even better. Um, but um yeah, and who knows? In September, you two could be both full-on believers after the investigation. That's the dream.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:51

Like to live the dream.

SPEAKER_04 1:27:53

Um, but once again, everybody, if you've enjoyed these episodes, please subscribe on YouTube, follow us on Spotify, have a podcast or Amazon Music, leave us a review, share it with anybody who you think might enjoy it, and we will see you on the next episode. Stay curious. And if you hear something in the EVP, also just let us know. And if you think it's rubbish, we won't be offended either. But have a great night, guys, and we'll see you next time. See you on the next one. Thank you.