The KASE Files

Rendlesham Forest UFO: What Really Happened at Britain’s Roswell?

• Kent and South East Paranormal • Episode 11

Share episode

Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.

0:00 | 1:16:09

In December 1980, American servicemen stationed near Rendlesham Forest reported strange lights descending into the trees beside two Cold War airbases.

What followed became Britain’s most famous UFO case.

Crabby and Ricky examine the extraordinary events of the Rendlesham Forest incident, including claims of a metallic craft covered in symbols, unusual radiation readings, multiple military witnesses, the official Halt Memo and the remarkable recording known as the Halt Tape.

They also explore the alleged government cover-up, witnesses who came forward decades later and reports of strange activity continuing around the forest.

But is there a more conventional explanation? Could a meteor, the Orfordness Lighthouse, bright stars and misperception account for what the servicemen witnessed?

Was something genuinely unexplained moving through Rendlesham Forest, or did several ordinary events combine to create one of the world’s most enduring UFO mysteries?

Crabby and Ricky examine the evidence from both sides before sharing their own conclusions.

ABOUT KASE PARANORMAL

KASE Paranormal is a private paranormal investigation team based in Kent, established in 2007. We support households and families experiencing unexplained activity with an evidence-led, grounded approach.

Website: https://www.kaseparanormal.co.uk

Private Investigations: https://www.kaseparanormal.co.uk/private-investigations

Contact: https://www.kaseparanormal.co.uk/contact-us

Follow us on TikTok: https://tiktok.com/@kaseparanormal

ABOUT KASE PARANORMAL

KASE Paranormal is a private paranormal investigation team based in Kent, established in 2007. We support households and families experiencing unexplained activity with an evidence-led, grounded approach.


CONNECT WITH KASE

Website:
https://www.kaseparanormal.co.uk

Private Investigations:
https://www.kaseparanormal.co.uk/private-investigations

Contact:
https://www.kaseparanormal.co.uk/contact-us


FOLLOW US

Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/kentandsoutheastparanormal

Instagram:
https://instagram.com/kaseparanormal

TikTok:
https://tiktok.com/@kaseparanormal

X / Twitter:
https://x.com/kaseparanormal

YouTube

https://youtube.com/@kaseparanormal



DISCLAIMER

All investigations are conducted with full permission from the property owner or authorised representatives. We do not trespass or encourage trespassing.

Paranormal investigation equipment is used experimentally. Activations, recordings and personal experiences are not presented as definitive proof of spirits or an afterlife. We consider environmental factors, equipment limitations and natural explanations when reviewing reported activity.

Cold Open

SPEAKER_02

Boxing day. 1980. It's just gone three in the morning. Two American airmen just out on a routine security patrol near the East Gate of REF base in Suffolk. See lights coming through the trees. Here we go then. Two more. So they think it's a plane, possible crash. A bird of plane. They just radio they radio it in, they grab a flashlight, and they both go off into the forest to look for well, they look for wreckage. But I'm guessing they don't find wreckage. No, they don't find wreckage. What they find, according to them, and according to a memo, written days later by a lieutenant colonel, according to sworn statements from multiple trained military witnesses as well, is a metallic object sitting in a clearing, lit up, covered in symbols, and it moves. What are we talking about tonight, Krabby? Well, tonight, Ricky, we're going to be talking about Rendelsham Forest. UFOs. UFOs, but also one of the most famous UFOs stories out there to date in this country. They call it Britain's Roswell. So you're listening to the case files, as always, I'm Krabby.

SPEAKER_01

And I'm Rick.

SPEAKER_02

So yes, let's get into it.

Welcome to The KASE Files Episode 11

SPEAKER_02

So as I said, this is classed as Britain's Roswell. The most investigated, most witnessed, most documented UFO case this country has ever seen. Right. It was involving UN United States Air Force, nuclear weapons, a Ministry of Defence cover-up row that's still rumbling on, and a string of new witnesses who are still coming forward now, even like decades later.

SPEAKER_01

Hmm. So tell me about Rendusham. I uh I don't know much about it.

SPEAKER_02

No. Well, I mean, as we've been researching this case, I found that I didn't know a lot about this. In fact, I didn't know anything about it. It was uh obviously passed to me and said, like, you know, look this up. And I've been doing that for the last few weeks, and it's been quite interesting, quite fascinating.

SPEAKER_01

So Rendolf Rendusham Forest, Suffolk, uh roughly eight miles east of Ipswich. Nothing remarkable. Pine trees, wetland, marsh. It's just nothing out of the ordinary.

SPEAKER_02

No, not at all. Um just basically a normal forest that sits between two REF bases, which is Okay, so there's where it's out of the ordinary.

SPEAKER_01

You get the two RAF bases.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, so you've got REF Woodbridge and REF Bentwaters, two American Air Force bases um who are twinned, and they're considered like one of the most largest USAF installations in Europe at the time. And uh this is the detail that matters for everything that follows, because uh there's persistent credible suggestion that nuclear weapons were also stored at Bentwaters, but there's no evidence of that.

SPEAKER_01

Okay, so we've got a vague marshland in the middle of Suffolk, um that which may house nuclear weapons. Allegedly. Allegedly. Um so it's not field. This is not a backwater swamp, this is a high security cold war nuclear installation. Exactly, yeah.

SPEAKER_02

So which is why when strange lights start coming down into the trees next right uh next to it, uh the response isn't oh, spooky. It's an armed security patrol that go in to check whether something has actually breached the perimeter. Because this isn't the these lights aren't in the REF facility, they're just outside it. So it just coincides that these two guys who were driving, I think they were they were either driving to the base or they were just nearby, and then they kind of saw these lights.

SPEAKER_01

It's the height of paranoia in 1980 is about the Russians coming, and all of a sudden something comes. Um so later, when people start talking about non-disclosure agreements and we're being told to keep it quiet, this is this is what is driven by the nuclear angle. Um it's much more plausible explanation than government alien cover-up, you know. Oh, it's got nuclear weapons. Actually, no, this could be a cover-up for aliens.

SPEAKER_02

It could be. I mean, um, I've got a take on it. We'll I mean we'll come to that at the end when we try and conclude. But yeah, I have a I have a theory on this because it can't be no coincidence that this is American and not English, right? That's another thing. Yeah. Um, but that's a thread we're gonna keep pulling with tonight because it cuts both ways. It explains the secret secrecy without needing aliens or such, but it also means that we should expect exactly the kind of murky, incomplete paper trail that we've actually got. Which again, when you talk about American politics, happens a lot, right?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, it's the same thing as Kelvin then though, isn't it? You can't get a you can't get a definitive answer. You can't get a definitive answer on anything because it's all oh nuclear, nuclear base, nuclear base. Sweep sweeped under the carpet, never existed. No. What do you mean never existed? It's an active museum. No, we never did it. I just emerged out of nowhere.

SPEAKER_02

So also just to be clear, this is this is uh an occurrence over kind of a think three nights. So it's not just one night, three night.

SPEAKER_01

Oh look, I saw some sparkly lights.

SPEAKER_02

No, it kind of lingers on. Okay, anyway, part one, we'll talk about that sorry, not

Night One: Strange Lights, 26 December 1980

SPEAKER_02

part one, night one. So 26th of December 1980, round 3 a.m. A security patrol near the east gate of REF Woodbridge see lights that they can't explain, apparently coming down into the forest just beyond a perimeter. Um again, these two guys are in their car driving outside of the baselines and they see these lights.

SPEAKER_01

So it's not uh that's not um ridiculous for them to assume that it would be a plane if it's an RF base, yeah, Air Force. Yeah, yeah. It would be a a crash plane or you know, just a plane taking off. Wouldn't be ridiculous.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, that's what that's that's what they assume that it could have been one of their own military planes that has been downed or or just a a a small aircraft in the area that's also come down, and you know, the lights suggest that you know it's crashed or landed, but they've you know they've gone there to basically check it out. Um and again, like you know, their assumption that it's a downed aircraft makes perfect sense. It's sane. These guys are sensible, they're well, you know, they're well trained, the you know, they're they're of sound mind, and um yeah, they they report it up the chain, and a small group of heads, military heads, go into the forest to investigate further. Among them is M and First Class John Burroughs and M and Jim Penniston.

SPEAKER_01

So these are two names that we're gonna see again and again and again.

SPEAKER_02

Yes, right. So those those are the first two guys who kind of arrived on scene. Yeah. Um Burroughs later gives a written statement published in 1981 describing it basically like this. The woods lit up, the farm animals nearby went into a frenzy, and they could see lights down by a farmhouse on the forest edge. They climbed the fence, they walked towards the red and blue lights, when they simply disappeared. Well, the lights just just vanished. Yeah, vanished. Now that's one part of the story. The other part, um, the part that's made Pennistons famous in UFO circles, what he says happened next. He describes coming across a metallic black triangular craft, roughly car sized, sitting in a clearing, glowing, moving through the trees, under its own power, and it's covered in symbols. And he describes it as um like hieroglyphics. That's basically around the the the perimeter of this of this aircraft.

SPEAKER_01

So naturally he touches it?

SPEAKER_02

He does. So he touches the aircraft and he says that it described it as uh you know it was w warm on the surface. He's ran his hand over the markings, and in his later more detailed retail of of what happened, um, because he copied them down into a notebook as well, in the years since Penniston has gone further still, claiming that the craft transmitted binary code directly into his mind.

SPEAKER_01

It's always interesting, isn't it, when um you get the initial story and then you get the actual story, and then you get the actual story, and then you get the actual, actual story. Yes. Um so this isn't an account that's written you know, the day after or the day of. This is an account that's been written a few months after, and then as he's gone on a few years after, and a few decades after. Um doesn't mean it's a lie, um but I mean maybe we should treat this with a different level of confidence to the same statements that he made on the same day. Yeah. I don't know. What do you think?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I mean it's a difficult one because you you know, he's not the only person to have seen it, which is what kind of like what makes this more interesting. So, you know, I think you know what you're saying is completely fair and it's you know, and it's exactly the pattern um sceptics point to across this whole case, right? Um the story has grown in in its telling over the years. I mean it's still yeah. I mean, you know, there's hundreds of videos out there is like so much information on this case, you know, that even people still go there today and still have strange things happen. So again, we'll come back to that later on. Um other witnesses that first night include Sergeant Adrian Bastinza, I think that's the way I've said it. Um he's a security police commander who later said when I arrived it was going in and out through the trees, and at one stage it was hovering. And Ed Caban uh I think it's Kabanzag who offered one of the more grounded accounts, describing a glow near what turned out once they got closer to be a lit up farmhouse.

SPEAKER_01

Okay, so even in night one, you've got a spectrum of I touched an alien aircraft and it spoke to my brain to we walk towards some lights, it was a house.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. So there's a bit of obviously a bit of conflict in information there, but um, and that you know, uh is basically the the whole rendels Rendelsham case in in miniature, if you like. After daybreak, servicemen return to a small clearing near the woods eastern edge and find three small impressions in the ground, along with burn marks and broken branches on nearby trees. Local police are called out, they look at the impressions and they think, well, it literally could just be made by an animal.

SPEAKER_01

No exactly the CSI moment, the story sometimes gets told as.

SPEAKER_02

No, I think that's the difference between English and American right there, right? Yeah. Yeah. It happens a lot. Um it's real. Something happened in that clearing physically that night, and the disagreement is entirely about what. Okay, so then we move on to two nights

Night Two: The Halt Memo and Tape

SPEAKER_02

later. Yeah, so night two, the twenty-eighth, it happens again. And this time, and what's interesting about this story is that the second time that um it happens, the guys who experience it for the first night are actually back on the base, and they're being ridiculed by their colleagues, and you know, they're they're having you know jokes being made, are you know, you're seeing you're seeing lights in the sky, you think you're seeing aliens, that kind of thing. You're in our case. And then it happens, and it gets called in when the guys who are ridiculing are there to experience it as well. That's pretty funny. So, you know, they they're getting kind of stopped in their tracks here. So um, yeah, so it happens again, and this time the deputy base commander gets personally involved, so the big chief, uh, Lieutenant Colonel Charles Holt.

SPEAKER_01

I've heard that name. So I'm assuming this is the big the big boy of the case.

SPEAKER_02

Absolutely. Yeah, so he would probably overlook both of those bases, to be honest with you. Um so Holt leads a larger follow-up team into the forest, and crucially, he brings a handheld tape recorder and switches it on. Now, we call the Holt tape, that's what was called now, it's called the Holt tape, and is in a real-time audio recording of a senior USAF officer narrating what he's seeing happen at that particular time. It's live in the dark and it's in the forest.

SPEAKER_01

That's unusual for that's that's quite an unusual piece of evidence. You know, normally you get a blurry photo of um you know, a car headlight in the distance and people are like, oh, it's in the sky, or you get, you know, the crop circles that the farmers decided to go, but everything's always after the fact. Yeah, there's nothing before or during, or it's always after the fact. Because nobody's ever prepared for it, right? I mean, who's ever prepared for this sort of thing? Apart from us. The farmers. Apart from us, you know, who who actively go out and search for it. But it's interesting that this man who didn't believe in it is narrating it in live time. That's really interesting. I'd love to hear them tapes.

SPEAKER_02

So would I. I don't actually think any of the tapes are out there as such, because they're still kind of might not have been released, but then because obviously these recently the alien um what do you want to call it? The reports, the cat the files, um, they're obviously being released by senior senior government officials now, like including Trump. So this, you know, this might eventually come out for everyone to see. But again, uh the piece of evidence um sceptics and believers alike, they keep coming back to. Um on the tape, Holt's team measures radiation at the original landing site, a standard military radiation survey meter. I think it's called an ANPDR27 device. In the triangle of ground, the pressions they record is 0.7 now. Mile that's a word and a half, isn't it? Milleretigens, if that's the right word. Per hour. And the surrounding area reads 0.03 to 0.04, uh, closer to background level.

SPEAKER_01

But it's not that's not ridiculous. That's not like I don't think I don't know actually.

SPEAKER_02

I don't actually know.

SPEAKER_01

I don't know. But the thing is it's not but the thing is it's not zero zero zero, is it? You know, it's not everything has background radiation. I'm sure if I tested my my thigh right now, I'd have zero point zero seven radiation from where my phone's been sitting in it.

SPEAKER_02

I was gonna say, yeah, but that's because you've had your mobile phone on there. But uh a random piece of forest in Suffolk, why would it just have radiation levels on that exact spot where they've seen it, right? Because they're hiding nuclear weapons underneath the ground. You said that, not me. Uh Holtz group reportedly spots a dancing red light inside a strange pulsating fog and separately sees a glowing domed object in which some witnesses claim they could see the shadows of figures moving. And finally, uh three star-like lights appear in the sky, two to the north, one to the south, hovering low for two to three hours and apparently beaming light from time to time.

SPEAKER_01

This is where I know everybody's about, so everybody with a skeptical burn in their body's about to get up and leave and turn off.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah? Yep. Well, hold that thought because we're giving them a full section shortly, but for now, the aftermath, Holt writes in an official memo to the UK Ministry of Defence in January 1981, documenting the whole thing formally on the uh USAF letterhead. Uh that memo sits quietly in the system for nearly three years before it's obtained via the US Freedom of Information Act, and it's finally released in uh to the public in 1983. And I'm assuming that's when it becomes a global story. Yep, and that's the moment. It's uh a signed official document from a senior American officer describing a UFO encounter at a nuclear-capable NATO airbase, and that becomes public. So it's very hard to overstate how much that one memo did for the case's credibility in the public imagination. It's not some UFO magazine claim, it's a paper generated by the US military itself. However, you know, to add to that, the British pla the British press blew it out of the water. It was, you know, it was front page of every single newspaper, and it was a story that went on for a long time as well. A lot of it was kind of jokingly as well, like it was, you know, they were taking the mick, basically. British public having a dig at the Americans, thinking No, look at these idiots.

The Witnesses: Who Were They?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. Yeah. So part five, if you want to call it part five, um, is the the witnesses. And for me, this is the the single strongest pillar of the whole case. Not the lights, but the witnesses themselves. Okay, so why? Why does that matter? Um, because they aren't random members of the public. You know, they're not they're not gonna kind of they don't have any reasons to kind of lie and not tell the truth. I mean they've they've all ex they've all experienced something, you know. Um and also these are trained United States Air Force security personnel, right? People whose entire job is to observe, they're there as a threat assessment, and you know, they're writing accurate reporting under pressure as well, at a high security nuclear installation. Estimates put the number of witnesses across the two nights up to about 20 USF personnel alongside local civilians.

SPEAKER_01

Okay, so that's I suppose I see where you're coming from. It's not one guy, is it? That's uh that's a lot of independent professionals that try to get away.

SPEAKER_02

It's probably pretty much an entire base that was working the shift, if you're being honest, because you know, you would have had your day shift and you wouldn't have had your night shift. So if you want to look at it that way. But um, yeah, so um several of them have paid um a real personal cost for talking about it. John Burrows and Jim Penniston have spoken about it's you know, suffering from post-traumatic stress connected to the events, um, and that was reported by the telegraph back in 2015. Holt has gone on record repeatedly, including as recently as a 2010 statement, saying flatly that he believes what he witnessed was extraterrestrial and that both the UK and the US governments have basically covered it up.

SPEAKER_01

So that's that's interesting. So that's a that's an actually retired lieutenant colonel putting his name and reputation behind that, saying this is what I believe, um this is what I believe happened, and this is why I believe that the UK and the US have covered it up. That's it's quite substantial.

SPEAKER_02

It is.

SPEAKER_01

Given that probably got a very healthy pension. Very healthy pension and a very healthy money. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. To put all that on the line to go out there and say, huh, yeah, yeah, I saw I saw a UFO. I don't know if I could have done that. I think I would have uh I think I'd have told him uh swamp gas. You'd probably just disappear.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I would have been disappeared, yeah. Yeah, 100%. Nobody would have ever seen you again. Um the argument researcher, Nick Pope, um just to kind of explain who he was, um, he was a Ministry of Defence desk officer from 1985 to 2006, and he wrote a book on the case called The Encounter in Rendersham Forest. His line is blunt. Uh, this was not some vague lights in the sky sighting in his reading of the evidence the craft had landed.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, so that's interesting. So it's it's worth saying that this is the Ministry of Defence's own former uh uh UFO desk officer saying this is what happened. This is not a random nut on the internet, this is not somebody with a Tim Fall hat. This is somebody the Ministry of Defence tasked and trusted with his assessment of these things.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So it's not a random enthusiast. Um yeah, I mean Penniston over time added detail that goes well beyond his original 1981 statement, including that telepathic binary transmission we mentioned before. Um, that evolution generally worries some researchers, um myself including to a degree, but yourself included as well. But even stripping out the more elaborate claims, you're still left with a core of group of independent trained observers on separate nights describing broadly consistent phenomena backed by an official memo and a live tape recording. So I'm gonna say food poisoning. What you think that they ate something and then and then they were hallucinating.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. I reckon that the chefs run out of mushrooms one night and they went out into the forest and they went, these look good. And then the whole base. Because I can last for a few days. And never even give that a thought. Yeah, fungus. Remind me not to go to the woodlands with you then. So the strength of this case though, reality, is that it was never really about the lights themselves, it's about who is actually watching them.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. Yeah, basically, yeah, because the the first night it was only three people, and obviously they told their story, they went back to the base, nobody believed them, their workers didn't believe them, and then lo and behold, the second night they see it.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, because it's I suppose it's why in the courtroom they get a doctor's opinion, don't they? They get the opinion of a professional because it's their job to be objective, it's their job to be able to define and retell and accurately document things, and what is who is better at identifying and retelling than probably an RAF officer? There's probably not many people in the world better doing that.

SPEAKER_02

What's interesting as well is that upon doing the research of this is that the three guys who um saw it, so you've got Burroughs, um Penniston, and you've got and then you've got Ed Um Kapanzag or something like that. I'm I'm sure I'm probably saying his surname wrong. They actually drew their weapons. Um whether that's true or not, because that's a bit hit and miss because some people say it, some people don't, but they they drew their weapons at this craft and all three of them passed out, and then the and then the aircraft took off and they woke up and then and the thing had gone.

SPEAKER_01

Um maybe my magic mushrooms is falling down, a shared hallucination. Exactly, yeah. You can hallucinate. Twenty people couldn't all hallucinate, twenty people can't all hallucinate the same thing.

SPEAKER_02

Well, they were saying that the the aircraft, when it was touched, it came to life. So it started glowing, it started pulsating, and then it started to kind of um levitate to to take off. But because they were blinded, that's when they drew their weapons, I think, or something like that, or they drew their weapons, and then they were blinded by this bright by this bright light. They were blinded by this bright light um fr given off from the craft, and then they passed out all three of them at the same time.

SPEAKER_01

So when the craft collected his DNA by him touching it? And did he activate it with his touch? Is a Penniston clone running around with a little alien inside it, like many black one.

SPEAKER_02

Well, I mean, I I don't know if it's been mentioned, but did they suffer time loss? Did were they, you know, they they may have passed out, but when they woke up, were they at the same time? I'm not sure. That's something that that I didn't kind of get an opportunity to look up.

SPEAKER_01

I did a little bit of background reading on this case. Oh, you did? I did. Okay. Um when uh Penniston and um the other gentleman recorded Burroughs. When Penniston and Burroughs first encountered the object, um one of them recalled it as being uh seconds, one of them recorded it as being minutes. Right. When they then returned to the broader group that went out to look, they had been on a search party because they had been missing for 45 minutes.

SPEAKER_02

Wow, right, okay.

SPEAKER_01

So I did a little bit of background reading, I didn't come in blind.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, there's a lot of stuff out there, it's all yeah, like different people have different kinds of things, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01

This is the thing. This is the what is the original story that was told the day after this by them two airmen, and what is everything else that has been added along the way? Hi guys, it's Ruth from the Case Files. If you like what you're hearing today, please like, subscribe, follow us on all streaming platforms, and follow us on YouTube.

The Sceptics’ Case: What Could Explain It?

SPEAKER_02

Skeptics, yeah. But part six if you want to call it that. Um I hate the skeptics. But you have to but you have to have skeptics with everything, right? You know if Max listens to this, I hate you, Matt. It's probably got something to say on it for sure. Um but yeah, we have to give them the same treatment as we give every case, whether it be UFOs, ghosts, whatever stories. That's what we're here for, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01

Talk me out of it then. Come on.

SPEAKER_02

So the leading sceptical voice on the whole Rendelsham Roswell debacle debacle, yeah, is a science writer called Ian Ridpath, who has spent decades building up piece-by-piece explanation. His argument, basically broadly putting it, is the first night's lights coincide with the burn-up of an exceptionally bright meteor, a fireball, if you will, recorded over southern England around the same time. Separately, the flashing light the airmen chase through the trees matches almost exactly the flash rate of the nearby Orphodness Lighthouse, which is um one of the brightest lighthouses in the UK.

SPEAKER_01

That's a really good explanation. Come on, what about the three star-like lights that Holt recorded on his tapes? What about that?

SPEAKER_02

Uh so Riff Path's case is that they were simply bright stars uh distorted by atmospheric refraction glowing on the horizon, and the brightest of the three to the south sits in almost exactly the position of Sirius, which would have been occupied that night, would have been there, and Sirius is also one of the brightest stars in the sky.

SPEAKER_01

Okay, so RID Path wants us to believe that twenty highly trained USAF airmen all collectively mistook a UFO encounter for a meteor, lights refracted by atmospheric gas and a star. A star. That's what they would like us to on a lighthouse.

SPEAKER_02

And bearing in mind that star is frequent there today. The star hasn't changed. You know, the serious star is still there, still brightest star, but you know, um I don't think you can I think you're gonna have to toss that one out really. The lighthouse is interesting, but then you know you've got 20 odd people as well.

SPEAKER_01

Well the guy did say he ran towards the lights and it was a farm.

SPEAKER_02

A slight contradiction.

SPEAKER_01

And if the flashing of the lights didn't did did line up with the lighthouse Yeah, I can I can see it. I mean it's a very it's a sceptical take, isn't it? So it's the problem do you know what the problem is with sceptical takes? Is that there's a million and one ways to come at it, whereas what we're trying to do is to say this is what it is, but literally I've I have just off the cuff told you that the chefs went into the forest and they all ate they all ate mushroom magic mushrooms the night before. The the sceptical take, they just go, oh no. There's a million different ways to sceptically ruin absolutely everything. Yeah, yeah. And it's the same when um Like when we're reviewing evidence and Krabby says to me, No, that's just something we've not considered.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, but I don't try to be as damning as that.

SPEAKER_01

I don't try to be I don't try to be um For those of you that aren't aware, I found a piece of footage that I submitted to the group um and I said, Have a look at this, and Krabby was like, No, you are wrong.

SPEAKER_02

No, no, not that aggressive, not that aggressive, but at the same time, we can't immediately just say it's a ghost.

SPEAKER_01

No, and I didn't say that, I just said I just said take a look. And everybody else was like, This is pretty good. I think no, you're wrong.

SPEAKER_02

I think yeah, because I'm like we've all got to calm down. You just got to calm down.

SPEAKER_01

I was millimetres away from popping champagne for we had to put this lid down and just walk up into the sunset with my Nobel Prize, and I've and I've grounded you. Yeah, I know you have, thank you.

SPEAKER_02

I've I've kept your feet on the ground and we've both gone back to work the next day. So that's what I do.

SPEAKER_01

So we've got we've got you've got the gentleman that would like us to believe in the lighthouse, the meteor, and the star. Have we got anybody else?

SPEAKER_02

That is kind of the core of it. I mean, there is a sceptic in podcaster called Brian Dunning. Uh he did a full breakdown for Skeptoid in 2009, and his concl his conclusion is almost poetic in how mundane it is. He says when you examine each piece of evidence on its own merit rather than letting them blur together, you avoid the trap of pattern matching um connections that aren't really there. The meteor had nothing to do with the lighthouse, and the lighthouse had nothing to do with the rabbit diggings some researchers pointed to as landing marks. But strung together in one telling, free ordinary nighttime oddities became a spray a spaceship.

SPEAKER_01

It's annoying, isn't it? It's it's annoying that these people exist. Just believe in the spectacular. Just have some take some joy out of not knowing that your life is that boring.

SPEAKER_02

Well, I'm not gonna kind of name names or I'm not gonna name YouTube channels, but there are a few out there that people still go out to this site today. And um I mean, some of them are a little bit crazy, a little bit out there. There I think there was one guy that basically said that um if you see something, whatever you do, don't don't report it in. Okay. No explanation given as to why. If you report it in, what's gonna happen? Like a hundred white vans with people with science.

SPEAKER_01

We said it last week in the poltergeist episode. They're gonna be men in black in outside your house.

SPEAKER_02

That's pretty much it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

I haven't seen all of that video because it seems a little bit out there, but um This site, I mean, I was gonna mention it right at the end, but I might as well mention it now. Is that this site is still a hive of activity today in terms of UFO hunters, if you want to call them that, but also paranormal groups go to this site as well because the EMF activity that's still present there today, the orange lights that still get seen as well over the site of this is Roswell. This is Roswell Suffolk 2.0 Yeah Ipswich, yeah, Suffolk, yeah. Um so yeah, there's the there is still activity being reported there today, like in the woods.

SPEAKER_01

As an avid conspiracy theorist, are you not just you're not just drawn to the conclusion that the government's doing some dodgy stuff out there?

SPEAKER_02

Yes.

SPEAKER_01

And that it's not dodgy stuff, they're just they're doing stuff that that you don't need to know about, that I don't need to know about, that we we're we're testing some new gear, um you don't need to know about it, I don't need to know about it. Um shut your mouth. Yeah?

SPEAKER_02

But you've also got to think about Area 51. What do they do at Area 51?

SPEAKER_01

It's not it's not for us to know.

SPEAKER_02

Well, I'm gonna tell you my theory on Area 51 anyway, is that with all of these people that see UAPs, UFOs, ships in the sky, it's gotta come from somewhere. I honestly believe that these UAPs or UFOs are actually being made at Area 51. And there's hundreds, obviously, of sightings in the VADA of these crafts and everything like that. And I honestly believe, because why is it that it's American and not British? Why is it Americans that are involved in this? Why is there not British military involved in this? Um because there is the I mean, I I granted this is an area which is occupied by American Air Force bases. However, at that point of time there would have been British REF bases not too far away from that, and they still would have reported something on a radar themselves, especially if they're a uh well, they're an REF base. They would have had towers, they would have had radars, they would have had something that that basically pinpointed something that was out of the ordinary.

SPEAKER_01

I like the theory that they're here babysitting us. Who are? What the Americans? No, the UFOs. So there's there's this there's this theory that they are actually here, they live here permanently. Okay. Um they're a permanent thing in in in the world where they're not in contact with our governments. It's a bit like uh you know Star Gas, you know, sorry, you know Star Trek where you're not allowed to make contact with uncivilised worlds. Okay. Yeah? Was it like what's that? It's like directory number one, isn't it? You're not allowed to mess up developing worlds. They're not messing us up, they're just not allowing us to destroy ourselves. So whenever we get to the point, so they're there like the USA, okay, you are the leading superpower in the world at the moment, you are probably the most likely reason for the world to end. We're gonna keep an eye on you, see what you're doing, fly over your bases, take some scan, do some probing, take some people.

SPEAKER_02

Probe, you know. Probing of people.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, probing we're we're gonna do some stuff, we're gonna have a little we'll have a little check you out. Um, because the reality of it is, is that if the world was to end tomorrow, the United States would probably be a key contributing factor as to why that would be. Um not because it would be their fault, but because people would either be retali retaliating against them. Yep. Um and so I just think that I think that the there's this theory that they're here going, right, you guys have got something good going on. We believe in you, just don't mess it up because we believe in you. Just don't mess it up. And then whenever they get to a point where they're like, oh, look at that, like look at that base there, that's got nuclear weapons. Okay, let's do a scan of it. Is it safe? Okay, cool, we'll bug her off. Uh oh, let's do this one. Oh, is it safe? Yeah, yeah, it's okay there. We'll let them do that. And then when it gets to a point where it's not, I believe there's gonna become a point in the future where we get to a point where we're like there, we're like there. We're on the cusp, and all of a sudden that the shit will descend from the sky and they'll go, no.

SPEAKER_02

So you're you're talking about a greater being. You're talking about God.

SPEAKER_01

But not about aliens. Yes, but like a okay.

SPEAKER_02

What's to say that Jesus doesn't come down if you're a believer? Well saying Jesus doesn't come down in a spaceship with the uh the one-eyed guy, what's his name? I can't remember what it was. In the b in the Bible, it's supposed to be a one-eyed person. I can't remember the word of it. Anyway, I'm I'm completely going off track here. Um, but what's to say that that greater power that you're talking about? What is it what it was to say that it's not interlinked with the Bible, with the religion, and they've you know it's a whole big kind of merger.

SPEAKER_01

It very well could be. It very, very well could be. There's that like um there's that I can't remember, is it a Star Trek into darkness? Is that the one with Cumberbatch? Might be. Where they are not allowed to interfere with the planet's development. A bigger big volcano slows and Kirk's like, we gotta save them. And they're all like, We can't. This is this is the path the universe has chosen for them. Right. We can't do that. And the enterprise raises out of the ocean where they've been invited where they've been observing these native primitive people from, and they save the civilization, and then after that Kirk gets in trouble. But what you then see afterwards is you see the native people then adopt the shape of the enterprise as essentially like a religious symbol. I'm with you. As they they like they they draw it out in the mud and they all start worshipping this thing that this miraculous thing that saved them. Um isn't okay.

SPEAKER_02

We have gone strayed, we've straight.

SPEAKER_01

You've gone way off course like a like a UFO. Right, so get back to this and tell me why it still gets more persuasive than the arguments that you've given me so far.

SPEAKER_02

Um so a lady called Jenny Randall's co-wrote um the first book on Rendelsham called Sky Crash back in 1984. Uh by 2010, she had walked much of it back, right in that while some puzzles remain, uh we can probably say no unearthy craft was seen in the forest, and that the core of the story is a series of misconceptions of everyday things encountered in less than everyday circumstances. So basically, it didn't happen.

SPEAKER_01

Okay, that's dodgy as hell. 1984, look at this book, look at what happened, and then all of a sudden she's going, Oh no, it didn't happen. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

1984, Big Brother as well.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah, Big Brother. Oh, yeah, so she's going, Oh yeah, look at this, look at this, isn't this amazing? Look what happened. Then all of a sudden she's you know 180 and then going, Oh no, it didn't happen, it didn't happen. Well, after you get lent on a little bit.

SPEAKER_02

After some after some photographs of your kids at school get slipped through your letterbox You your thought process is so much different to mine, it's crazy. Um you've made me cough, and that's normally what you do on this.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I know so far I'm doing alright. So not everybody thought this was a spaceship though. Not everybody on the ground was convinced. Yeah, um, so we've got the sceptical, we've got the believers, and but you still we we've still got some stragglers here that are going.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I mean obviously there's uh there's the police response to it. Officer comes out, looks at the site in daylight, uh specifically to check whether he'd missed anything, later wrote that he found nothing and remained unconvinced the occurrence was genuine, noting that the light beams um from the Bentwaters landing beacon and the awfulness lighthouse again were um pronounced enough that night to cause strange visual effects on their own. But you wouldn't have a lighthouse that completely blinds you because then you wouldn't be able to see where you're going, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01

Do you know how like unbelievably um paranoid I am about just about this? Like I'm just looking, I'm just just I'm looking at all this stuff, and it's like right, this is what happened. We've got a lieutenant colonel going, this is what happened. We've got people going, yes, this is what happened, 20 people going, this is what happened, and then all of a sudden we've got people going, no, this isn't what happened. I really promise you this isn't what happened. Oh, 24 hours, oh yeah, there's a logical explanation for exactly what happened.

SPEAKER_02

And this this is why I think that these UAPs are being made in this country. I don't think they're being made um on other planets or in other galaxies or whatever. I honestly believe that these are being made either underground, like you've mentioned about spacecraft being observing and all that. There are underground facilities in this country. I I know of them because I've because I've worked on c I've worked on a in a construction um firm which basically has a also secrecy kind of act in terms of what is being built underneath ground. You're getting done tonight, yeah, don't you? I've not mentioned any names and I won't. But I know for a fact because people have said this to me. There's people that have actually had to swear um written statements that that basically say that we're not allowed to talk about it, we won't you're not even allowed your phone with you, you're not allowed any devices with you. So when you turn up at this construction site, you give everything over, you have you have a um you have to change clothes, you get changed, you you basically get checked again, and you get checked on the way out. So, you know, but what's to say again, why do we have area 51 then? Why is it that there are um a fair few airfields around area 51 as well? These hangers that are obviously being used for something. Nobody knows what these hangers are actually necessarily being used for, but there are videos out there that suggests that UAPs or these extraterrestrial looking ships or or planes are being made. Like, you know, like say, for example, the modern stealth bomber that's forever being modernised. I wouldn't be surprised if that now has I mean, I don't know if you've seen the new stealth bombers. But they're constantly flying around Nevada as well.

SPEAKER_01

So, you know, it's those kind of things. Do you think that Area fifty one was established after the Roswell incident and it was specifically to reverse engineer the technology?

SPEAKER_02

I don't know. I d is because I'm not too involved in this subject enough to actually kind of So okay. So let's just take it out.

SPEAKER_01

So take it out of that. Do you think that Area 51 is um either A, pure human ingenuity and stretching the limits of what we can do, or B humans reverse engineering extraterrestrial technology?

SPEAKER_02

It's interesting because I want to bring up another thing as well.

SPEAKER_01

We've gone mad by the way. We've gone mad with technology, by the way.

SPEAKER_02

Well, I was gonna talk to you about the ha the Hadron Hadron Collider. Yeah. Now I don't know if you remember um not so long ago, what was it, the the alien craft that was being seen whizzing through space. Um example, right? So rumor mill was that this free eye atlas was communicating with NASA and also the people of CERN, where the Hadron Collider created a portal that was able to communicate with the Free Eye Atlas in space. That got very quiet, very quick, that one. It did, didn't it? It just disappeared, and there and there was and there was thermal imaging of of space where there was literally a fleet of extra tr extraterrestrial crafts going through space and these heat, you know, that's all meteorites, they're all little pocket meteorites drawn by the gravity of three eye axis. Meteorites that were obviously shaped as alien crafts. You don't know what alien crafts are shaped like. Well, I know that meteorites aren't shaped like that either. So, you know, you think of that what you will. But I think I'm I'm very much on the fence with this, but there are some interesting stories like this one, like the Britain's Roswell. But again, I'm annoyed by the fact that it's Americans. If it was British, I'd be like, amazing.

SPEAKER_01

Are you not just a xenophobe?

SPEAKER_02

No, no, it's got nothing to do with xenophobia. I'm just like, why America? Why does it always have to be America?

SPEAKER_01

I've just given you a perfectly rational answer. I've just given you a perfectly rational answer, it's gonna say because I believe that if there are aliens, they're looking down, they're going, right, what's the biggest powerhouse in the world? The United States. But then you could say Russia. Russia's bigger than America. Yeah, but Russia doesn't let stuff get out. But does it let it go in either? What I'm saying is, is like if these things are happening, Russia doesn't let things get out. I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_02

That's a stretch. But you know, I pray that there is another occurrence of this or there's some form of story that that we're not aware of, and it's gonna crop up and go, oh yeah, like someone say, check out this story, and then you'll be like, Oh, I didn't know this happened.

SPEAKER_01

So we could be back doing another story, but I would like to I would like to present you with a different one. I don't know if you've listened to it, it's one of the uncanny episodes.

SPEAKER_02

Okay.

SPEAKER_01

I don't know if you would listen to it. It's one of last season's uncanny episodes, it's fantastic. And um long and short, uh interracial couple in like 1950s America um get abducted, they take samplings of her clothes and they find like the rarest element on earth like in heavy dosage on her clothes like this would have been multiple millions and millions of dollars of this material just on this at random person's clothes.

SPEAKER_02

So where is it now? Great.

The MOD File: Was There a Cover-Up?

SPEAKER_01

Anyway, let's have a look at this cover-up because this is definitely a cover-up. No sceptical views here. Come on, Grabby, tell me about the cover-up.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, was there a cover-up? Because you know it just generally gets murky rather than just spooky, right?

SPEAKER_01

Because I'm assuming the official line they took was this was a non-event. This didn't this this happened, but there was th this happened, but this was just a series of mean CRI and lighthouses, and yeah, this this this did happen.

SPEAKER_02

But so the report was slapped on the Ministry of Defence's desk. Ministry of Defence's position was that Rendelsham posed no threat to national security and was therefore never formally investigated, which I find absolutely bizarre. Um and it's also a strange thing to say about a memo that was describing an unde I unidentified craft landing beside a nuclear but nuclear capable NATO base. Yeah, so you'd think you would have thought at least the met like the the Ministry of Defence would have at least explored it in some shape or form, which they haven't, which you know I find an interesting factor when you kind of like still hear of things happening there today. You know, like I said before, there's paranormal groups that go there and they experience these strange things because of the amount of electrical electrical electromagnetic energy that is still there on the grounds today.

SPEAKER_01

So they didn't decide to cover it, they didn't decide to investigate, but they did release a file.

SPEAKER_02

Yes. Um the argument fueled decades of cover-up suspicion, right? So in 2002, the MOD's full rendorsham file was released under the Freedom of Information Law, and it was a fit catalogue of correspondence between the department and members of the public um previously seen by a small handful of researchers who used the American uh FOIA process to get partial access. Um what that file actually showed is more bureaucratic than um conspirational. Conspiratorial. Conspiratorial, yes. That was the word I was looking for. And it reveals no evidence the government um secretly believed the case was solved, but it does not confirm a substantial internal paper trail existed. It contradicted the earlier claim that this was never taken seriously at all.

SPEAKER_01

I don't care what people say, freedom of information is is BS. Yeah. I don't care what you say. They the freedom of information is BS. They give you what they want you to know.

SPEAKER_00

Hmm.

SPEAKER_01

But but they didn't give you a smoking gun or proof of aliens. Uh but it's also not just what the MOD originally claimed it was. It was they they did have a little bit of back and forth about it.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. Um a freedom of information exchange between Lord Peter Hill Norton, uh, a former chief of the defence staff, and the MOD, released in 2007, um, shows a generally robust borderline, exasperated back and forth with Hill Norton repeatedly pressing for straight answers and getting deflections every time. Uh there's a member of the actual military establishment refusing to let this drop decades after the fact.

SPEAKER_01

Okay, so that's still that's that's the substantial, substantial much more than the me and you with the YouTube channel and a podcast badgering, and that's actually somebody with some with some weight getting mugged off there and getting said no go away.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, and I'm I'm fairly certain that it is probably a YouTube channel of that guy out there somewhere or a podcast channel. Tinfall hat. Yeah.

Since Then: New Witnesses and Ongoing Sightings

SPEAKER_02

Still sat there by the site.

SPEAKER_01

So tell what's happening now.

SPEAKER_02

So since then, obviously we've got new witnesses and new ongoing sightings, and this part I kind of wanted to do tonight because most retellings of Rendelsham stop in 1980 and that's it, it's treated as a sealed historical event. It isn't, people are still coming forward today.

SPEAKER_01

So is this people still coming forward about the original encounter? Um not exactly so But about Rendelsham itself.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, so we've got multiple um if you want to call them researchers tracking the case note, fresh witnesses have resurfaced um as recently as 2016 and 2019, obviously long after the original story had become UK folklore, um, with nothing obvious left to gain by inventing a connection to it. Okay, so 2016, what was that one? Uh again, a former USAF security policeman called Longhiro uh came forward describing his own experience that night, uh how unnaturally quiet the forest went despite all the commotion and a generally eerie detail. He said the lights seemed to watch the men as they got closer. He also said personnel were pulled in individually afterwards and told in no undercer uncertain terms to stop discussing the incident. The uh back to the nuclear angle again. Yeah, so right back to it. Um he specifically said the emphasis on silence was framed around the nuclear weapons reportedly stored at the base. And that they were asked to sign paperwork reinforcing that, which, as we said earlier, gives you a fully mundane explanation for decades of institutional secrecy that doesn't require a single alien.

SPEAKER_01

Ah, it's so perfect, isn't it? It's perfect. It's absolutely perfect. Oh no, yeah, we can't say that because we've got nuclear weapons there. But it doesn't mean the underlying sighting isn't strange, it just means the secrecy isn't necessarily proof that there's an existential, there's a uh an extraterrestrial cover-up.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, yeah, precisely that. So um the secret uh sorry, the secrecy and the sightings are two separate puzzles, and it's easy to let one lend false credibility to the other. So then in 2019, another account surfaced describing a glowing reddish ball witnessed independently of the original core group. It's more detail, but it adds to a pattern researchers have noted. Um new corroborating or semi-corroborating testonomy, I can't say that word, continue to trick you out well into the 2020s, decades after anyone would have have anything obvious to gain from lying.

SPEAKER_01

So, what about uh so you've got the forests around the RAF bases? What about the the rest of it? Uh we got new witnesses, the original lights, um, but we've got some new activity as well.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, um don't want to kind of overclaim it, but what's generally well documented is that Rendlesham Forest itself has become a magnet, and I think that's what I was kind of touching upon earlier was that there is still this noticeable electromagnetic energy, a field, if you want to call it that, in and around the forest. Um and it's yeah, I guess it's become a magnet for tourists, UFOologists, and inevitably more reported strange light sightings from people specifically visiting because of the legendary status in the stories. The Forestry Commission used national lottery funding to formally create a UFO trail through the forest in 2005, leading to the original landing site, and in 2014 commissioned a permanent sculpture there based on witnesses and the sketches of the craft.

SPEAKER_01

Right, I don't um You got something to say. Nothing says to me more than this actually happened, than the government acknowledging it and making it.

SPEAKER_02

I'm I'm I'm not saying that it didn't happen. What I'm saying is is that I don't believe it to be alien and out of this world. That's what I'm trying to say. I know what you mean, yeah. It's an American base, which kind of annoys me. That's the first thing that's like whatever. But no problems with American, but it's like, why does it as I said, it's American and with all of that, they their their space stuff and everything that they do as a nation, everything that they spend money on, their space program, their military, which is like two major things that they spend billions on.

SPEAKER_01

Um yeah, that that's the for me, like you know when the USA released their UFO files recently, I think they released all the ones that could credibly be a UFO but aren't you know what I mean? And I think they release uh just basically anything the government wants you to believe in they'll release it. Yeah, look they're look at how amazing they are. Do you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02

This But the but with with with technology forever expanding, it it's got to the point where they've they've had to come out and say it's true. But again, I don't believe it to be from a from another planet or from another galaxy. Like I said, yeah, there's UAPs. Are they admitting it because they're making them? They're putting them out there.

SPEAKER_01

But this is the other question as well, are they putting them out there because there are some genuine ones? Well, I don't know. That's that's why we're kind of talking about it in a way, isn't it? Are they are they putting them out there to almost desensitise you towards them because there are some genuine things that go on and now you just sort of accept it as a given. Do you know what I mean? You're like, oh bloody aliens. Yeah. You know, uh it's gonna get to a point where we're going, oh yeah, you know, th these things just happen, and we just sort of brush it under the carpet because it's become so prominent? Yeah, it's become so like just acceptable and accepted, and you've you it's so much been destigmatized and people are like, oh yeah, well I don't believe that we're like the the the only um people in the in the galaxy.

SPEAKER_02

Um I believe that there are probably other planets just like ours, but we we're just too far away or you know too we're not able to kind of communicate. We're not you know, it's we're never gonna kind of see each other. I think it's just just the way it is.

SPEAKER_01

I reckon I reckon the universe is a lot smaller than we think.

SPEAKER_02

It probably is, yeah. But anyway.

SPEAKER_01

So this place has become a genuine pilgrim site for the the tinfall hat gang.

SPEAKER_02

Yep.

SPEAKER_01

Me, sorry. By the way, that is me. I am the tinfall hat gang. I'm in there as well.

SPEAKER_02

I think what's incredible is that I didn't know anything about this, and it's now a Pilmig Pilmig uh Pilmig what is it? Pilgrimage, yeah. But you're gonna I haven't put my teeth in today, sorry. Uh pilgrimage site. So I didn't know anything about this, but people have travelled all over the world. Uh, and in 2023 the area sought what was reported as the UK's first dedicated UFO tour built specifically around the site, and the story keeps getting fresh media attention rather than it's fading away.

SPEAKER_01

It's like Area 51. Area 51 has become so synonymous with UFOs and aliens. The government are now like, it exists, it's right here. Look, here it is. Look at this right over here. Look, oh aliens, aliens, look, this is what we're doing all the time. But you can only get up to a certain point. You can, but that's the mystery. But they're acknowledging it's there, and they're like, Yeah, there you go. Look, oh, look at these aliens, look at these aliens. When actually what they're doing is they've got a hollowed out mountain, they've got a hollowed out mountain in Wyoming where they're actually doing all the real stuff, just like Rendolson's Forest, which is where they're going, Oh, look at the aliens, look at all look, we've got we've got an alien Comic-Con, oh look. Actually, no, you need to go to Scotland.

SPEAKER_02

I mean, there was another theory that kind of, you know, what happened during lockdown in COVID as well, because you know there's a lot going on. What what was this kind of a conspiracy to uh I don't know, do something that could not be seen by public eyes. I don't know. Maybe. But anyway, um I digress. So Colonel Holt gave an on-record interview as part of a UFO conspiracies documentary alongside astrophysicist Sarah Crudas. Uh the case got a four episode treatment on Danny Robbins Uncanny, which I've kind of spoken about, yep. And uh time to the 45th anniversary at the end of December 2025, just a few months before we're recording this. A new documentary called The Rendelsham UFO, the British Roswell, which is on YouTube, by the way, uh, was released, uh, revisiting the eyewitness testimony and declassified material through the lens of what's now officially called UAP research, which is what I was touching upon, following the recent wave of US government interest in unidentified aerial phenomena.

SPEAKER_01

No, it's not it's not recent wave of US government interest. It is what the is the US government now have a full grip and understanding of what they're actually dealing with. They've been dealing with it for the last hundred years, and they're going, okay, we now know what this is, we know who they are, we know all these bits and pieces now, we're all good.

SPEAKER_02

There's no But this falls down on Trump's administration as well, I believe. No other no other president.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, but then at the same time, you can also say that um Trump's released this to deflect away from a lot of the things that doesn't want other people to know.

SPEAKER_02

Absolutely, and I think that's what's touching upon is that he's giving the people That was it, the opium of the masses what they want. Yeah. They're kind of saying, Wow, okay, Trump's willing to uh let

Our Verdict: What Really Happened at Rendlesham?

SPEAKER_02

this information come out. Fair play to him, right? I'm gonna, you know, I'm gonna back Trump's corner.

SPEAKER_01

So this has gone back and forth. Our take. I want your take. Where do you stand on the Rendelstrom phenomena? I have to say that I don't think it's uh aliens. Is that because the case leads you to believe it's not aliens, or is it because you don't personally believe in aliens? What does the case mean?

SPEAKER_02

I know I I as I said to you, I I the word aliens, I mean, you know, again, haven't seen Disclosure Day and you know No, apparently it's not very good. Okay. Well the whole, you know, the aliens among us kind of thing. I find that a little bit hard to believe. Um the reptilians and stuff, as much as I love that story. Tick about lizard people. Yeah, as much lizard people and all that. Again, bit of a stretch, but I I don't dismiss that the that the that the incident happened. I think the incident probably did happen. Is it alien craft? No. Is it from another planet? No. Is it American made? Probably yes. Is it Americans trying to pull the wool over our eyes in terms of technology and God knows what else that they're trying to do with these UAPs? Because if you think about it, 1980, right? Uh they the UAPs, you know, was m it was happening because it was a 70s thing as well. But I just think there is this that these are being made by Americans. But at the same time, is this not like I'm not saying it is, by the way, but uh but this particular case is that because it's happened outside of an American nuclear base, um, and very close to an American um communications base as well in in Watton. Um, they've got massive, they've got those like you know the film contact with the big old white radars out in the field. That's what's in Watton. Oh, is it? Yeah. So so again, with it being an alien craft, why is it REF Watton with all of those radars? Why are they not involved?

SPEAKER_01

Because I told you the Americans are the they are exactly so so that's what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_02

It's American, it's not got anything to do with Britain. It's American being American.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, it's um it's America.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. You know the one, don't you? Team America.

SPEAKER_01

Team America.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, yeah, it's it's American being America.

SPEAKER_01

It's America being America.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. Everything great happens to us. And obviously, you know, because of the whole end of the the Second World War, American bases, Britain and America very tight with each other still as well.

SPEAKER_01

They're they're by the way, do you not think, right? On the out if if my theory, if the if not my theory, if the theory of extraterrestrials babysitting us into not murdering ourselves too badly, if that stands up, would you not assume that at the point where we dropped the bomb on Hiroshima that they went, oh no, they've actually got the capacity to absolutely wipe this planet off the face of the earth, and then since that point you've seen a massive increase in the UFO phenomena because they're now sitting there going, These morons have now got the capability to destroy themselves, we've got to stop.

SPEAKER_02

But I would like to hear other stories that are outside of America and and outside of this continent. I want to hear about Uh a Russian Roswell, a Chinese Roswell incident. I don't know if I don't have a lot of time in order to kind of you know think about I might bring you one. I might bring you one. But there must be stories out there, right? It's like China are on the other side of the moon.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, but China don't let you do anything either. China don't let nothing out. We can do via Timu. What I'm saying is if genuinely, if tomorrow the mother ship landed in a Chinese field, we wouldn't know. Well, but eventually you would.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, eventually, like 10 years' time. But you're telling me that if something landed in China, all singing and dancing with the blue and red and green and white lights, you're not telling me that someone's gonna see that and go over there filming on their Nokia.

SPEAKER_01

No, because everything in the Chinese state is controlled. And they don't have access to in the internet. But they can't control someone from going to access site. They don't have access to Facebook, they don't have access to WhatsApp, they've got a completely internalized social media system. No, that's fine. I'm not talking about social media.

SPEAKER_02

I'm talking about a witness in China seeing a crash uh an alien situation. He's gone out there with his mobile phone. He can do that. Yeah, they can't do YouTube either. No, no, no, I'm not talking about take social media out of it and all of that. If if something like that happens in Russia or China or anywhere else, they have the capability of filming it on a mobile phone, right? And uploading it where? No, no, I'm not talking about uploading it, but I'm just saying they can record it.

SPEAKER_01

And do what with it? Well if you can't upload it, isn't that you can't do anything with it, but you you can take the SIM card out and email it and mail it to your friend in uh in in the United States, and they're like, Oh, oh, there's a SIM card going there, and definitely we've got a checklist on this.

SPEAKER_02

You get on a plane with your SIM card, yeah, and you take it to NASA or America or whatever.

SPEAKER_01

Those historically wealthy Chinese farmers.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. I don't know what the hell we're talking about now, because I have completely lost. But uh, you get what I'm saying. I want to hear other stories. I don't believe it to be going back to what we're saying, I don't believe it to be an alien craft as such. I I I get that as that there is something to it, but I just kind of think that maybe this is an aircraft that's been tested, it's been built, maybe nearby, it's being tested, it's landed, it's then gone off, it's done what it's supposed to do. It's done exactly what it's supposed to do on the tin. I'm actually more with you on this one than you think.

SPEAKER_01

Alright. I think I I I do believe that the United States, the United Kingdom, and the world, the the the nuclear powers, if you will, are reverse. I I but maybe not for their own ingenuity, but I believe they are reverse engineering um alien technology. And that's why you've seen the leap in technology that we've taken over the last hundred years because we've advanced more as a society in the last hundred years than we have in the last hundred thousand years.

SPEAKER_02

Okay.

SPEAKER_01

You know, um and it's only getting scarier and only getting faster and only getting worse and worse and worse and worse. And I think I mean don't get wrong, they say that war is the w it's basically war, isn't it? Like we wouldn't have all the mil we wouldn't have all the medical stuff now if it wasn't for the Nazis doing their atrocities. True. True?

SPEAKER_02

I guess so. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01

True. Alright. Right. If if if if people been watching too many movies, but I'm just saying if people weren't doing things that we consider to be heinous or ingenious, or you know, we wouldn't have the atom we wouldn't have the atomic bomb if it wasn't used for war. I'm I'm seeing what you're saying, like Oppenheimer. Yeah, you know, if we wouldn't have these things, if they weren't within the interest of the government to destroy other people, we wouldn't. Um I just think that the advancement in technology is is where we're at. And I think that all these little bits and pieces are reverse engineered.

SPEAKER_02

Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And I I wouldn't be surprised if Rendelsham is exactly what you say it is, which is a reverse-engineered ship that they lost a bit of control over.

SPEAKER_02

I probably don't explain it as better as you can because I'm not really of a UFO. My dad's a nutrient. I'm I'm in it for the paranormal stuff, which going back to with the site, it interests me more now because of the the paranormal connection it now has in terms of orbs in the sky, orange and white lights, electromagnetic energy, which is then manifesting other things to happen on site as well, not just aliens, but you're talking paranormal related in terms of spiritual activity, uh, manifestations of and and and things being seen. You know, that like I said, there are YouTube videos out there which kind of connect to like paranormal incidents out there. Go go check them out. But um it's actually made it more interesting for the wider community, so both space, UFOs, aliens, and paranormalists.

SPEAKER_01

The paranormal and spirits are where I love. But aliens is up there as well. No, but the the U the UFO is where I cut my teeth. Okay. My dad was a my dad is a tinfoil, my dad's the king of the tinfoil hack brigade. He loves it. He'll sit there for like six hours, he'll get home at five, he'll sit there till midnight, and he'll just watch UFO conspiracy theories all day, all night. Ancient aliens, they built the pyramids, they did this, they did that. Yeah, I I remember you saying don't get you wrong, I love my dad, and I love watching it with him. Um, but this is where I cut my teeth. Um and uh it's probably why I'm so passionate about it. Um I believe, just like you, I think it's a reverse-engineered um reverse-engineered technology that they were messing around with, lost a bit of control over, and then quickly had to sweep under the rug when someone found it.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Um that's that's reasonable, right? I think it's reasonable. Um so we're gonna both go for not alien, but definitely a government cover-up.

SPEAKER_02

I think so. I think it's definitely edging towards a a government cover-up. Okay. Because if you think about it, those two guys that first stumbled across it were never supposed to be there. I can't remember what it was, but they were outside the that they were outside the main base, but they were driving nearby and just happened to see it. Take those two guys out of the equation, nobody would have nothing could see. Exactly, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, and how many times a day does that happen?

SPEAKER_02

Right, are we done? I think so, yeah. Um unless there's anything else that you want to kind of say. I mean, uh it's been a bit of a different episode, so we've kind of I've enjoyed it though.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I mean, time flies when we're in. Always does. We're at um an hour and two minutes. I believe we're good. Rendersham Forest. Maybe not alien, probably a government cover-up.

SPEAKER_02

But definitely a place worth checking out, I think, in the future. I mean, like I'm doing upon the research of this again, didn't know anything about it. And again, there's loads of videos out there. Is it they're all different, they're all interesting, and you know, they they all have a different take on it, but they all kind of talk about the you know, there's no difference in terms of the story, which is kind of gives substance to it, I guess, in some shape or form. But um I would like to go there in a paranormal um um state of mind rather than a UFOologist or an alien conspiracy theory government thing. I'd I'd just like to go there and do a ghost hunt.

SPEAKER_01

I think that's what I'm trying to get at. I see that I I once again I believe if you go there looking for a government cover-up, you're gonna find a government cover-up because that's the cover-up. That's the that's the uh, you know, that's the oh look here, look here, look here. Well actually, you're looking over here. Um we good and done? I think so, yeah.

SPEAKER_02

I mean, it it's a it's a case file.

SPEAKER_01

It's a case file. So I'm gonna go.

SPEAKER_02

So we don't we're we're not just talking about investigations and you know, poltergeists and you know, haunted locations. We're we're trying to add something a little bit different, and I and hopefully that's kind of come across well enough. Yeah, I'm I've I've I've really we were a little bit more kind of uh clued up perhaps. But it's been it's been fascinating to learn about this subject and uh you know hopefully we've shared something and I'm sure that if we've um got something wrong.

SPEAKER_01

Wait until I get you into the NASCAR lines. Wait until I'll get you to the NASCAR lines. Hmm. Sounds NASCAR. NASCAR. No, the NASCAR lines. You must know what the NASCAR lines are. I have no idea. Right. Let's sign off. I don't know this. Let's sign off and I'll I'll hit you up. This has been the case for I was with Rick and Crabby. We've really, really appreciated you getting back to us again. Once again, please like, subscribe, follow us on YouTube, X, Spotify, Facebook, all the places that you get your podcast, Apple Podcast, Spotify.

SPEAKER_02

And obviously, bearing in mind, there is a UFO, uh UFO trail at Rendelsham, and there's a sculpture worth checking out. Uh there is that as well. Your lottery money has been spent. Yeah. So you might as well go and see it. And you know, just to kind of give credence to it, Nick Nick Pope's books out there, The Encounter in Rendersham Forest gives you an insider of MOD View. Not the Newcastle goalkeeper. Yeah, not Nick Pope, that one, yeah. Um But yeah, there's a lot of like books and information out there, so go check it out. Also, go check the place out if you do, or if you've already been there, maybe let us know in the comments of like what it's like and whether you experience something. So let us know how to stay cheap. Amp out there. Right. Signing off. Yes. Until next time. This has been the case files. Stay curious, stay skeptical, and don't wander off the beaten track. Yeah, don't get abducted.

SPEAKER_01

Night. Good night.