Is Fort Burgoyne Haunted? The Fort That Watched Us Back (Part 1)

On 27 September 2025, KASE entered Fort Burgoyne for what we believe was its first formal paranormal investigation.

Built above Dover Castle during Britain’s Victorian invasion panic, this enormous fortress spent around 145 years in military use before falling largely silent.

Fifteen investigators. Two teams. One night inside a fort designed to hold thousands.

For Rick, this was his first investigation with KASE. For Crabby, it was his first night back with the team after a year away. Fort Burgoyne did not give either of them a gentle introduction.

In Part 1, Rick and Crabby explore the fort’s military history before retracing Team A’s investigation through the ground-level casemates and tunnels.

A motion light activates with no visible trigger. A door opens behind Dan. Thuds and footsteps are heard inside an empty tunnel. Both teams report whistles from separate areas within minutes of each other. Then a laser grid is broken by something the team cannot immediately explain.

None of these events proves paranormal activity. KASE documented the environmental conditions, tested the equipment and considered natural explanations throughout the investigation.

This episode also introduces Questions for the Hosts. Rick and Crabby discuss why some locations appear to contain hundreds of spirits, how KASE tests equipment for false positives and whether Rick would rather face a ghost or a spider.

Part 2 is coming soon, with the investigation continuing into Fort Burgoyne’s deeper levels and the room nicknamed “Disney.”


Fort Burgoyne Case Study

Read the full investigation report:
https://www.kaseparanormal.co.uk/blog/paranormal-investigation-fort-burgoyne-dover

ABOUT KASE PARANORMAL

KASE Paranormal is a private paranormal investigation team based in Kent, established in 2007. We support households and families experiencing unexplained activity with an evidence-led, grounded approach.


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DISCLAIMER

All investigations are conducted with full permission from the property owner or authorised representatives. We do not trespass or encourage trespassing.

Paranormal investigation equipment is used experimentally. Activations, recordings and personal experiences are not presented as definitive proof of spirits or an afterlife. We consider environmental factors, equipment limitations and natural explanations when reviewing reported activity.

Transcript

Cold Open: The Fort That Watched Us Back

SPEAKER_00 0:00

A fort built to stop an invasion that never came. Guns that were never fired at an enemy, tunnels dug into a hillside above Dover Castle, sealed off from the town for over a century, and only ever opened to the public a handful of times. On the 27th of September 2025, Case Paranormal became the first ever team to formally investigate it.

SPEAKER_01 0:22

Two teams, 15 investigators, case mates tunnels, four separate basement levels, and a room nicknamed Disney for reasons you're about to find out or anything but magical. This is episode 12 of the case files. For Bogoin.

Welcome Back: Fort Horsted and Why This Case Was Personal

SPEAKER_01 1:07

How are we doing? Yeah, man, good you?

SPEAKER_00 1:10

Well, yeah, yeah. It certainly comes around quick when they're doing these episodes, as we said. But um, yeah, for the first thing we'll start with, though, is that obviously since the last episode you went on an investigation. I couldn't make it due to uh dad duties, but um yeah, you and uh you and the rest of the team um investigated Fort Horstead.

SPEAKER_01 1:32

Yeah, we did. Um for those of you don't know, Fort Horsted. It's obviously in Chatham. Um not as old as you think it is, but still over well over a century old. Um it was a good place, it was fun. Um, had some interesting energies, and I not not as much happened this this night as it did with you before, as I'm aware. Um, but uh you know, as ever, I'm just happy to get into a place with a with a paranormal history and a good bulk of history behind it itself and see what we can do.

SPEAKER_00 1:59

Yeah, yeah. I mean, obviously this is a bit of a prelude to what's gonna come because there will be a Fort Horstead video coming out at some point. There will. We're just literally going through all the footage at the moment, reviewing it, and then obviously editing that down. And you know, we will then try and put a video out, I believe, as well, I think. And uh then there's gonna be, you know, the the the actual investigation that we will then come in and talk about eventually. So yeah, um Fort Horstead, a great place. Actually, one of my favourite places to be honest with you, because you the the stuff that's happened in the past there, of like there's been so much. Like there was one time, um, I don't know if Dan told you, just as the investigation was starting, someone crossed the the the entrance of the tunnel. Yeah, yeah, Dan did it. And um, yeah, that the person just disappeared. But equally, you kind of have to dismiss it because there was builders and stuff working on site at the time. I think so. Big old place. Yeah, they were finishing up, but also there is general public um not too far behind it. So you know me.

SPEAKER_01 3:06

I rule a lot out. A few times that night we heard bits and pieces, and there's uh for the first hour while we were there doing our pre our pre-brief, we kept on hearing like a right it was driving us insane, right? We nailed it, it was a loose bit of metal girdering the other side of the fort that had echoed through the tunnels to us. So me and Laura go up there with two like massive cinder blocks, and we basically trap it in place, right? Go back to the rest of the group, we're like, oh for we know why have we just spent like 20 minutes looking to debunk this thing to try and find it, and we've not found it. Turns out you look straight above you, there's a 360 camera that follows you. Oh, and whenever that was twisting, you go, hmm, right, it was following you on your own. It was following us when we were moving, and so then we're like, right, okay, there we go. So that, ladies and gentlemen, is the extent that we go to to debunk any bits and pieces that we can't explain because it is a bloody nightmare when that must be a new camera as well, because that wasn't there the last time I it's a quite bit of kit. I was really surprised when I actually looked up and was like, wow, that's really impressive.

SPEAKER_00 4:19

It's a decent venue. I mean, it's actually appeared on one of the um episodes of Ghost Adventures as well, and uh yeah, a long time ago. I think it's like one of the first kind of series or series two of the Ghost Adventures. So they hadn't long started, and uh there was a I mean they caught some interesting stuff, so I mean that's obviously out there if you want to go and go and view that as well. But um, yeah, so we'll we'll we'll come back to that. Yep, put that on the shelf, come back to that later. But equally a very good location, um but again it's hit and miss, right?

SPEAKER_01 4:50

Yeah, hit and miss and miss. So yeah. But tonight this one's a bit different for me. Um, because since the first time since we started this podcast, I'm not just asking questions about places I've not been. Yes, I was here. This is my first investigation ever with Case. I went to the you know, the standard public ones where you chip 40 quid and the bloke stands behind you and knocks on the wall and scares the life out of you. I've done that. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 5:12

Um what at Fort Burgoyne? Not at Fort Burgoyne. Oh, okay, somewhere else.

SPEAKER_01 5:16

But this is Fort Burgoyne. This was my first ever investigation with Case and Krabby, it was equally as important to you, wasn't it?

SPEAKER_00 5:24

Yeah, so this was my first investigation back after about a year and a bit out of case, and uh yeah, so literally just came straight back into it. And uh why did you take that break? Um, it was a whole magnitude magnitude of different things, personal stuff as well as changes within the former KPS group, which you know, um that was what the the previous name, obviously KPS, but before it turned into case. And you know, that w I think with any group there's there's always that the dynamic, isn't there? Uh yeah, there was there were significant changes going on, and uh I think um there may have been you know some kind of political issue, shall we say?

SPEAKER_01 6:07

Yeah, down and uh down staged a coup. Yeah, and down one. He did. So the history is written by the winners, ladies and gentlemen.

SPEAKER_00 6:15

And and and and Mugabe here is is is back out and um able to um continue to work with Case, which is lovely, because I mean um even though it was a year out, um I kind of missed it. Uh uh, you know, the it's the it's not just the investigations of it, it's it's also you know, working closely with people that you know the the other members of the group who you know have known for a very long time. You know, I've known Dan for like over ten years and know other people over ten years. And I think there's always that you know, you take a break, but you're you're kind of floating around the periphery and you're you're ne you're never out of it. You've always got one foot in and one foot out in that kind of because you're all uh me and Dan were always messaging, like, you know, you know, how's it going? You know, have it what's happened on these investigations. So you're never like solely out of it, to be honest with you. It's just you're not physically there. So yeah, it was nice to come back. I'd never done Fort Burgoyne before. Obviously, we hadn't met at that point. No, I think there was a few people in that room that I didn't recognise, and then um, you know, Matt had actually come back that that night as well, I believe. Yeah, it was his first night back after a break as well. So it it was very much kind of um picking up where we left off. It's not kind of a new thing as such, but the only difference is that you've got new people work you're that you're working with, you know, you're kind of getting used to kind of working with them, and you know, the groups the group dynamic is is different, obviously, and um and obviously the location was new as well. I'd never been there before. It was uh I didn't even know it existed. No, no, neither did I. So it was it was it was the first time that it had been proper investigated, and fortunately we were the the first group to kind of go in there. Um but I want to go back. I want to go back. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We are, we are. We we we're we're going back um next year. So it'll be it'll be um reinvestigated again, which which I think is great because uh it's a it's a really good venue.

SPEAKER_01 8:12

So tell me how it felt for you. Like obviously you come back year out. What what was your um initial because obviously I'm gonna give you my this is what it felt for me for my first ever investigation. I want to know what it felt like to come back.

SPEAKER_00 8:26

Um it was it's hard to explain because there's obviously the excitement of being back, there's the excitement of a new venue, but also there's the anticipation of like you know being out for so long, going back into the group, you know, uh re-embedding yourself, you know, kind of were you more nervous about going back to the to the people that you already knew or to the people that you didn't? Um I mean the people that obviously knew me, that's not a problem. Like, you know, that's never an issue, but yeah, um making acquaintances with with new people who you totally don't know everybody's opinion and kind of um thought process of the paranormal is completely different. We all we all think about the paranormal completely in our own way. It's you're gonna touch upon stuff that is kind of samey, but you're never gonna think about it in the same way, you know. Like, you know, I'm I'm very kind of um skeptical, even though of what I've experienced. I'm still a very skeptical person. I think you have to out rule you have to rule out pretty much 90% of rational explanations, right?

SPEAKER_01 9:39

Like, so for me it was more of like a of obviously to to just to to let everybody at home know, so you can't just sort of um rock up and and and message message us and just go, oh, we'd like to join. There's like an actual vetting process that happens, you know, um now Laura, but before it was just Dan. Um they will, you know, that we'll go back, we'll message, do some emails. Dan will arrange a video interview, and that normally lasts about 45 minutes an hour. Dan asks you some pretty personal questions.

SPEAKER_02 10:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:11

You know, he doesn't want to know why he doesn't Dan doesn't want to know, oh why do you want to join the why do you want to come and join the paranormal? Or why do you want to come join this group? Oh, you know, I'm I'm moderately interested. Dan wants to know why you in here. What has drawn you to this point where you're contacting a private investigation team to get to the to to try to scientifically document this phenomena and to try and game proof. Why why is that? We don't want a surface level answer of oh, you know, I'm just vaguely interested. We want you know, we want something that's that's part of you, don't we?

SPEAKER_00 10:51

We don't want some Yeah, you you want someone who is um not scientifically kind of um oriented, but you need someone who's gonna be dismissive of of of the subject as well. You're not to believe everything you see in your ear. He's obviously Dan is kind of passionate. I think he wants to see that passion from other people as well. Bear in mind, obviously, that when you join the group, you're on a probationary period as well. So it's you know, it's very strict in that sense. Um, you know, you're you're kind of observed and monitored on your on your first investigation just to make sure that one you fit in, two, it's for you, and whether you're gonna be a good fit for the team as well.

SPEAKER_01 11:35

Honestly, it was one of the most nervous parts because like it was it was strange because I didn't want to be like, oh my god, I've just X, Y, and Z. It was almost it I had this sort of like like closed anxiety about being like, should I react to X? Should I exact to Y? I don't want to seem too over dramatic. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 11:55

I was very much the same on that because as I say to uh I'm quite open to kind of experiencing energy and stuff like that. So when you do experience something like that, you don't want to kind of like sound like a bit of a wally in front of those who are who are going, okay, that's a bit odd.

SPEAKER_01 12:12

Yeah, I don't want to be um I don't want to be like sat off on my own and be like, this phenomenal experience.

SPEAKER_00 12:21

Well, for example, I I was in that I don't know that there was a particular room, it was a it was it was uh a door with uh bars on it, but the bars there's no glass, it's just iron bars in the middle of it. But I was sensing that there was a guy with a dog walking around. I don't I don't know why, it just came to me that I could see like in my mind's eye that there was a dog, and I could sense I could feel like hear this dog, and I kind of picked up on the notion that this was some form of security dog, and the guy who was with the dog was patrolling. Now, just after I said that there was a whistle, and exactly a whistle that you would whistle a dog, like like over here, you know what I mean? Um, and then we heard whistles throughout the night as well. So that made me feel a little bit better because then you're not crazy, right? Because then people are going, people then start going, okay, yeah. This guy's this guy's legit, then he's not he's not just making it up or he's not talking nonsense. So um but the whistling was out throughout the night anyway. So it's very important not to get carried away though. Yeah, yeah, you have to keep your feet on the ground. Yeah, you've got to be a lot of people. A lot of people come in and they kind of think it's gonna be like most haunted or other T other TV shows where it's all sensited and things are happening all the time, stuff being thrown and all that.

SPEAKER_01 13:41

It's been it doesn't happen. It's been really interesting to like I've had um obviously I've been on numerous investigations now, but my first night at Fort Burgoyne, I had a couple of experiences and I think I took them for granted um because then my second investigation was then Slough Fort, where I had again some more um experiences. But then for my last few investigations, I've not I've not felt anything. And I it's it's been really, really blank, and I look back on them and I sort of feel like oh, you know, maybe I was maybe I took them for granted a little bit. Um, you know, this isn't this isn't most haunted, this isn't ghost adventures where you're gonna go in and get possessed, you know, you're not gonna go in and get that, you know, and get the Annabelle doll, you're just not. This is this is looking for uh needing a haystack.

SPEAKER_00 14:33

And and I've seen a lot of people come and go just through that. Like people join thinking what they've seen online or what they've seen on TV is how it is, they realize soon realise that it's not, and a lot of them say, Do you know what it's not really for me?

SPEAKER_01 14:47

As I've like, you know, maybe I thought it was for me, but it's not, and I was gonna before, you know, like all these ghost stories you hear, they're not you know, these these paranormal experiences that people have, they're not continuous events, these are snippets of 30-second minute experiences that people have had over numerous years, and they've just been able to convalesce them into this sort of 20-minute story that they can then tell you. But that that's that story's taken eight years to manufacture. We're looking for one of those 30 seconds, and it's just that that's what we're here looking for. But do you want to get into the history of the

Fort Burgoyne: 145 Years of Military History

SPEAKER_01 15:28

fort?

SPEAKER_00 15:28

Um, yeah, we can do, yeah. I mean, obviously, um, there's gonna be a lot of people out there that have no idea about what Fort Bitcoin is or where it is or what does it do?

SPEAKER_01 15:38

I've lived within 20 miles of Fort Burgoyne my entire life. I didn't know it was there. And that goes to show like how well hidden and I'm a history nerd as well. Like I'm a I'm disgusting. Like I will like I've I've done so much history stuff around here, and Fort Burgoyne's just sort of just sort of gone with the ether from me.

SPEAKER_00 15:59

Um but yeah, it's got it's got a very it's got an enormous important history to it, to be honest with you. Yeah. Um so as we know it's in Dover. It's uh in the middle of the 19th century, Britain was gripped by what historians call a an invasion fever. Um, France under Napoleon III um is rebuilding its navy, and there's a real fear in Ireland. I know, well they're so close, aren't they? Uh and their fear was that um that an invasion fleet could land on the south coast within any within any any days. And uh in 1859 a royal commission is set up to review the country's coastal defences, and Dover, as the closest point to France, becomes one of the most fortified places in Britain.

SPEAKER_01 16:46

That's really interesting because the paranoia of that the paranoia of the French invasion.

SPEAKER_00 16:53

The noise of that just then was perfect timing.

SPEAKER_01 16:55

The paranoia of the French invasion is also what built for Orsted.

SPEAKER_00 17:00

Yeah, Fort Orsted, Fort Amherst. You know, there's there's so many mini forts as well that have even been destroyed as well. So yeah, there's the you know, Kent is is is deep, full of history, you know, as many other counties as well. You know, they all we all each county had its job throughout the wars, you know. So but yes, um, so going back, construction started in 1861. Um, it's built on a high ground to the north of Dover Castle on a site that has already been known for years as a Castle Hill Fort. Uh designed by a royal engineer, a guy called Captain Edmund Duquesne, which kind of sounds French. Yeah. Yeah. Inside job. Inside job. Uh polygonal design, that's the term for the shape. Polygon polyg Polygonal. Polygonal. Polygonal. What did I say? Polygon polygonal. Polygonal.

SPEAKER_01 17:51

Yeah, well to be fair, I'll I would have I would have gone with polygonal as well.

SPEAKER_00 17:55

So what is it?

SPEAKER_01 17:56

I think I I reckon it's polygonal.

SPEAKER_00 17:58

If we haven't got time to argue everything. But look it up. So that's the term for the shape. Maybe angled ramparts and defy defensive lines uh designed to give artillery clear fields of fire in every direction with no blind spots for an attacking force to hide in. Uh by 1862, it's renamed Fort Burgoyne. French name. Yep, Fort Burgoyne again, after General Sir John Burgoyne, who at the time was Britain's inspector general of fortifications, something like Inspector Cluseau almost.

SPEAKER_01 18:28

The view from Fort Burgoyne is beautiful.

SPEAKER_00 18:30

Oh, it is. Yeah, it's magnificent.

SPEAKER_01 18:32

360 view, right? Yes, it's phenomenal. Um where you stand in like the what is now the car park, but would have been the uh where they did the parades and they would have done the you know the on where they did the march and stuff.

SPEAKER_00 18:43

Oh, they would have rolled out all cannons out of the orgasm out of every nook and cranny of uh of the fort as well. It is a beautiful place.

SPEAKER_01 18:51

Um but it was beautiful it was built purely just for war then, just no other reason but just to just to stop the French.

SPEAKER_00 18:58

And I think that was another factor of like when we were the first pay people to go there, when you see it in its glory like that, and you kind of picture how it would have looked, as you say, back in its day, amazing. It was beautiful, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:12

Even drive like even driving in and then coming into it, wow, this is a place.

SPEAKER_00 19:16

This is this is a place. And it would have been very well looked after as well, like they would have pumped so many kind of you know, personnel into there as well, just to make sure that you know it does its job and you know it stays how it is, you know. So, yes, um, so it's worth saying Dover had already been fortified once before this, um decades earlier, during the um what is it? Napoleonic. Napoleonic, yeah. So you're here for my kind of spitting out of words. So during the Napoleonic Wars. Napoleonic, what do you call it? Napoleonic. Napoleonic, right? Sorry. I'm so uneducated. Uh when the same fear of French invasion led to the construction of Western Heights, which obviously is still there today, uh, the huge network of forts, ditches, and barracks on the other side of the town, including the Grand Shaft. Oh dear, uh extraordinary triple staircase that they cut straight through the cliff so soldiers could move fast between the barracks and the harbour. I believe that's still there today as well. It is. The Fort Burgoyne isn't part of that older Napoleonic system. It's a generation later purpose-built for the night uh for the 1860s fret, but it sits in that same landscape, that same long tradition of Dover, Dover uh bracing itself for an invasion from across the Channel that time and again simply never comes. So this is Dover's second um absolute panic wave. Yeah, exactly that. And um it's Fort Burgoyne's version of it. Um case made barrow blocks, vaulted rooms built into the earth itself, thick enough to survive artillery fire. Um NASA word. Caponniers, that's the one. Caponniers, which are armoured structures project uh projecting out of the ditch walls, so troops could fire along the length of the moat at anyone trying to cross it, tunnels connecting the levels, uh a parade ground, as you mentioned. Um by the time the wing batteries are finished in 1869 and 1870, Fort is bristling. Um, 35 guns on the main ram rampart alone. Another two dozen split across the campaneers and gun rooms. It's built to hold thousands of men and to make Dover Dover as close to unsaleable as Victorian engineering could possibly manage.

SPEAKER_01 21:37

It's a shame they never had to use it, right?

SPEAKER_02 21:39

Hmm.

SPEAKER_01 21:40

That's a shame. The invasion never bothered coming and uh we spent more money on stuff we didn't need to again on another form.

SPEAKER_00 21:46

And obviously a lot of the deaths came from um accidents. Yeah, yeah. Ax accidents involving gunpowder or a accidents through things falling on them.

SPEAKER_01 21:56

To be fair, that that moat around the outside of it that was like I mean um Just looking back on it, that must be some sort of six, twelve, eighteen, must be thirty foot up that wall. You fall over that, you're done. Exactly. It was a that was striking how deep that moat is around the outside.

SPEAKER_00 22:14

Especially if, like, you know, the soldiers would have had a drink or anything, and then they stumbled out of there and thought whatever. Yeah. So but yes, uh, so an invasion never comes, which is Four Begwen's whole story, really. Um, it's a fortress built entirely around a fret that never materialized. The guns are never fired at an enemy as weapons technology moves on through the 1880s as well. The original um amarments become obsolete and get reduced, but the fort doesn't get abandoned, it just changes purpose. Through the early 20th century, it becomes barracks and accommodation, and in the first world war it's used to assemble and house troops and basically um does supplies being sent across the channel to the Western Front.

SPEAKER_01 22:54

Okay, so at least it gets used in the Second and First World Wars, yeah?

SPEAKER_00 22:59

Yeah, it does. So during the Second World War, the for take the fort takes on uh air and sea defensive roles, anti-aircraft positions go on on site, the old casemates get used as overflow barracks alongside the main garrison. Uh pillboxes, gun emplacements, blast walls, the whole hillside gets adapted again for a new kind of war. Um Dover, remember, spent the Second World War as one of the most heavily shelled towns in Britain, close enough to occupied France that German guns could reach it pretty much directly. So the fort sat right in the middle of that.

SPEAKER_01 23:33

It's really quite surprising, actually, considering um you look at some of the other places, you know, like uh in Germany that were leveled, you know, and uh they're a lot nicer than Dover. They could have done better. You could have done better, UK. I'm I'm from here, I'm allowed to say this Dover, it's this over, lads. Just we'll start again, we'll start the shelling again, and we'll just build it again.

SPEAKER_00 23:55

Yeah, it's not a bad idea. There's the many other places in Kenton for that as well. But anyway, uh good generations pass through this place then, yeah. Yeah, it's a generation after generation, and it keeps a military role for decades after that, too. Um it eventually becomes part of what's known as uh Connott Barracks, um, home in later's uh home in later years to the parachute regiment, and that is where the story finally ends, or at least where the army story in that building ends. The first battalion of the parachute regiment departs in March 2006, and Connot Barracks closes for good. Do you know what? I didn't know that.

SPEAKER_01 24:29

I didn't know that it was in operation up to 20 years ago. That's interesting. Um, but that's you know, over a century and a half of just continuous military use, there's bound to be some uh some interesting things have happened there during that time, right?

SPEAKER_00 24:45

Yeah, yeah, I mean it's uh 145 years, give or take, and then nothing. The site falls into a kind of limbo state. It's uh scheduled monument, protected by law, but it's not maintained the way it was when soldiers were obviously living in it. Ivy's taken over the brickwork, the rampart structures, the the HAXO case might start to deteriorate from neglect. Um, it's now owned by a body called the Land Trust, who are working on plans for its long-term future, and every so often it gets opened up for tours or heritage sites. But um but for most of its recent life, Fort Burgoyne has simply just sat there empty on the hillside above the castle, the building constructed to be full of men, all guns and disciplines and purpose, and then left for the better part of 20 years to nobody at all, which is obviously why not many people know it's there. Just crazy because you've got a brand new house in the state that's just been built by it now as well.

SPEAKER_01 25:43

Well, I'd sort of assumed it had been dormant since like the 80s or the 70s, just for the sheer deterioration, but it's got it's gone to part. But some of the bits that they've actually you know repurposed and have started again, you can actually see how people used to live there. Yeah, because Jesus, I couldn't imagine living there now. It is rough. I mean, it's it's a it's such an impressive monument to British paranoia, but um but it is rough, isn't it? It's it's been really run down, bless it. It needs it, it needs some love. It's got some interesting bats though. Yeah, it does, they're really cool. Lucy bloody hated them. Um but that's it's a long time for it just to sit empty though.

SPEAKER_00 26:27

It is, and I mean like you think about what actually means day to day a parade ground with nobody marching across it, barracks, rooms built to dozens of men with the beds and the noise and the routine of military life stripped out and never replaced. Corridors were built for constant footsteps, hearing none, doors that were open and closed hundreds of times a day for a century and a half, now open maybe a handful of times a year for a tour group or like like a paranormal group like ourselves or a survey. Well, no, not like a parable, we're the first ones. Well, yeah, as of now. As of now. But um, yeah, and on the 27th of September 2025, that's when we ventured in.

SPEAKER_01 27:08

But all the time that all the time that it was left empty, nobody thought, is there something still there?

SPEAKER_00 27:16

Well, as far as we've been able to establish, no. Um there are obviously heritage records, engineer engineering surveys, conservation reports going way back, all documenting the brickwork, the ivy, the structural risk, nothing documenting what, if anything, might still be moving through those rooms after after everyone else has left. Though there are stories.

SPEAKER_01 27:41

There are, which is why we were asked in there, wasn't there? Yeah. Because there was uh there, well, when we were there, there was a boxing um I was just gonna say that's been turned into a boxing gym. Yeah, so some of the some of the casemates um have now been a bit like Fort Horsted adapted for for proper businesses. There's sort of like a in the first three, as you go in, there's now a boxing gym and like a ring and a training room, and they've had some they uh they've had some interesting bits and pieces happen, haven't they, that they thought they might want to get somebody in for which was it like lights, uh their lights going on and off, I think it was one of the stories. Yeah, yeah, big yeah, there's lots of uh things being moved. Yeah. Yeah, not not being in the same place as they were left the night before. Um yeah, just the standard ghosty stuff. Um the tunnels were still there, everything's still intact, everything's still good to go. Effectively, with a bit of TLC, it could be just straight up useful war again.

SPEAKER_00 28:40

Could be, yeah. I mean, like, you know, there's no reason why they wouldn't. I mean, it's all been kind of looked after in its own way. It hasn't become derelict in a way, those tunnels are still structurally sound. I mean, the we've been in it, we know that. Yeah, we do. They could just make some significant changes here and there, but it's still sturdy enough, still operational easily. So Do you want to set the scene for our investigation?

Setting the Scene: Two Teams Enter the Fort

SPEAKER_01 29:09

Hi guys, it's Rick from the Case Files. If you like what you're hearing today, please like, subscribe, follow us on all streaming platforms, and follow us on YouTube.

SPEAKER_00 29:21

So, as you said before, 15 investigators, two teams one night going into a building nobody had ever asked that question of before, no previous reports to compare against, no local ghost stories already circulating that would you know put put thoughts in our head or prime us, but whatever we found, we found first. So, yeah. Saturday the 27th of September. It's hard to believe it was nearly a year ago.

SPEAKER_01 29:49

It's how long take to come around as well.

SPEAKER_00 29:52

So, yeah, so let I'll set the scene. I'll set the scene. So, yeah, the other date that you mentioned, access to Fort Burgoy isn't something that you can just turn up and and arrange, it's licensed, um, agreed in in advance, done properly. We've split into two teams to cover the site without crowding one particular area they needed to. Yeah, and part way through the night we kind of swapped sections so we could see the same kind of act activity. Yeah, so we split two teams and then we can compare notes at the end of it to see if it's nine, and then yeah, see if anything kind of matches in terms of what of what was experienced in in that place. So yeah. So we've got team A. Who was that? Um, yeah, so team A was myself, uh Dan, you uh Sue, Alan, Lisa, and oh yeah, of course. Georgia was with us as well. Yeah, I was too scared not to go without my partner. And um team B consisted of Ben, Jake, Lucy, Sam, Lee, Laura, and Carlos, which don't think we ever saw him again.

SPEAKER_01 30:59

Never saw him again. But it was also Laura's first investigation with this as well, wasn't it? Very true, yes. It was so it was eight on one team, seven on the other. Um, 15 of us uh for a fort that needed more. We were we were up against it, weren't we? Um but uh that's it. Chucked in there, left on our own in the dark. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:18

Um which is worth sitting with for a second, because the building was designed to hold an army, and here we are, like 15 people rattling around inside something built on that scale, changes how a place feels. You're not you're not feeling it, you're barely a presence at all, really, in such a big building like that.

SPEAKER_01 31:38

No, so obviously the one of the main things that we we have to take into consideration is the atmospheric conditions and what we were going into. What were they like that night?

SPEAKER_00 31:46

Um just a standard September evening. I think we've said that before, but it was cool, humid, not very windy, we'd say like light winds. It was nice evening, yeah. It was, yeah. Because the stars were kind of like quite prominent from up there, from what I remember. Yeah. Um, but we were still feeling the tail end of um Storm Gabriel at that point, which I completely forgot about actually. So it was kind of unstable air pressure, humidity that wouldn't settle around 12 degrees at six in the evening, dropping to about eight by two in the morning. Um, light easterly breeze, moderate humidity around 70%. Moon was waxing, so I think it was a big moon. Big moon. I do remember that basically, because it was a very like the stars and everything was so prominent. But um, so this the moon was about 77% illuminated or something like that. Um, so there was natural light outside for whatever that's worth underground.

SPEAKER_01 32:44

So we go into this massive place. Um, what did we take with us at night in terms of kit?

SPEAKER_00 32:49

Um again, we we take a different mix of all different equipment. You know, it's um environmental mixing, monitoring, and interaction base tools, things like K2 meters, EMF detectors, um, obviously to track electromagnetic fluctuations, REM pod, which sits in a room and alerts you if movement is nearby or if something passes it or go off. Uh spirit boxes for both teams, a laser grid, um, which later on becomes very important. Um Ouija boards. I think we'd that was the first time that we'd used new the new Ouija boards there as well. Um, so that was sessions for both teams. Um, and that's obviously for direct kind of communication that we were trying to get. Cat balls, they were very prominent that night, from what I remember. There was quite a lot of cat balls on display. There was, yeah. With ramps, glow-in-the-dark ramps. I remember that. Um static cameras, obviously, very important, and the motion sensor camera uh position to capture uh anything in areas that that weren't actively standing in, and voice recorders and apps running throughout the night. Should anything kind of come through that was interesting or gear though, yeah. We had a lot of things. Oh, yeah, yeah. So I mean obviously, you know, you know what Alan's like as well.

SPEAKER_01 34:15

Alan brings like a whole yeah, like a whole tall you know, screw fix tall box case with like you know, stands like up to my up to my chest and it's got a big thing and he just pulls it out. It's got all the drawers is watching Alan.

SPEAKER_00 34:30

I I remember when Alan had nothing. He literally he would have had a torch. And um, but yeah, over the years uh he's yeah, he's surpassed me about six times over with the with the amount of equipment that he's got. But yeah, not not just Alan, but every everybody obviously has their own stuff as well. Dan, Laura, yourself, I have a little bits and pieces, but yeah, I mean put that all together and you've got quite a good setup, really.

SPEAKER_01 34:58

Yeah, we do, I think. Especially now, especially I think over this last year our setup's really involved.

SPEAKER_00 35:03

I mean, if there was a paranormal war, we we we've got the merchandise to kind of go to war with paranormal, that's how you want it, right? We've got we've we've we've got the stuff that can kind of uh tell us where they are.

SPEAKER_01 35:15

We could do it. Um thought like this is old, it's huge, it's full of tunnels, so you've got yeah ruling things out is a real nightmare.

SPEAKER_00 35:23

Yeah, um it is a little bit of a nightmare, but especially when you've got echoes through tunnel systems and corridors.

SPEAKER_01 35:31

Yeah, like I said with those that's with a four-horsted thing, trying to that little we'll just go. And it's a nightmare, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 35:39

Yeah, and then obviously the airflow shifts as well. You got the bats, you know. Kind of fun. Yeah, but you don't see the bats, you you you kind of you know, you if you're in the pitfalls. They go straight past your face. Yeah, or you can hear them making the noises, that kind of thing. So you've got you've got the bats to take into consideration, and then you've got the damp, the cold, um, you know, how that uh naturally affects your body throughout the night as well. Um, and so you know, you've got to take into consideration of temperature fluctuations, whether it'd be drop it dropping and and also going up, because it it alters in different rooms.

SPEAKER_01 36:16

So before we've even switched on any equipment spirit box, um we've already built this sort of pre-notion in our head um as to where what we're going to expect to hear from the building itself, so we know what we can and can't rule out.

SPEAKER_00 36:33

Yeah, it's uh it's a starting position. So the um strongest activity across the whole night ended up being roughly nine o'clock through to quarter to eleven with things continuing on and off after midnight.

SPEAKER_01 36:47

Uh can I s can I just ask something before we actually get into this? Um what was going through your head um when you knew where we were going when you saw the site? Because you've investigated hundreds of places. Yeah. But this is a big one. What was what was your first thoughts when you saw this, when you saw the four?

SPEAKER_00 37:09

Um well it it I mean it takes you by surprise because I I didn't know I didn't I don't look up where I'm going. If I don't know it, then I'm and I haven't been there before, I won't look it up. So I am just kind of rocking up. Um I think I was a bit late that night, so I didn't get I didn't get a preliminary walk around. So I I I just basically we we started and I just kind of immediately started walking around with my group, right? So, you know, I was going from room to room and seeing when I picked up and you know, just you know, you just take it all in. Um but I think it was one of the first rooms that we went to was when I started hearing that that whistle, the the guy whistling, and then kind of noticing that because if you remember, we kind of went out of that room because of what we were being picked up, and we kind of went in behind it. Um that was weird. It was weird. Yeah, was that my chair? I think so. Yeah, it sounded like a voice. Um we got some weird stuff in here. Um as I say, so we went behind uh where the rooms were. There was like a an out, like a I don't know what you want to call it, like a walkway. Yeah, there is, yeah. And I know that we hung back there for a while and people were not people were picking up again, whistling.

SPEAKER_01 38:24

Um it's really strange with these thoughts,

Ground Level: Footsteps, Whistles and the Laser Grid

SPEAKER_01 38:27

isn't it? That that um I've been to what three now, and it always feels like there's something just well, I don't know if you remember the light behind us came on, but it but we're just getting there.

SPEAKER_00 38:38

Oh, is that when we can just get into it?

SPEAKER_01 38:40

Yeah, we just get in there. Um right, let's get into that, yeah?

SPEAKER_00 38:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:44

Um ground level straight in. Um at we are me and you, team A, yeah?

SPEAKER_00 38:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:55

Um are you with me?

SPEAKER_00 38:57

I am, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:58

Um we start on the ground floor, the case mates and the tunnels, tunnel routes, uh that includes a stretch, uh, runs near to what you what is the boxing gym now. Um and the activity begins before anybody's actually settled. And this is my first experience ever. And it's like 20 to 9 at night. And it was something I just caught out of the corner of my eye. But obviously, bear in mind that it's motion centered and we were nowhere near it. Yeah, so behind the boxing gym, um they have like you know, when you walk into a room and the light turns on because somebody's walked in there, they got the motion sensor. We were aware that behind our behind our base camp was um oh, and bearing in mind as well, before we knew none of why they had actually asked us to in here. Only Dan knew why, you know, only Dan knows when he makes contacts with these places what's happening. We just get kind we just get come and asked to investigate. Yeah. Um I am the last person with Alan lagging back at the end of the lagging back at the end of the group. And we're walking past we've stepped outside and we're walking past the window, and I'm I on my left hand side, out of my left wing eye, I can see the the boxing gym and the boxing ring. And behind that in the corridor, I see the light go on. And I turn to Alan and I go, it's that a motion sensored light. Did that just go on? And he goes, I don't know, mate, did it? I went, yeah. So there's no so we both go back and we check it out and there's no one there. And that's when Alan decides to set up his trail cam. It's a standard trail cam, bar of Amazon, it's 50 quid. You show me which one it is, it's not uh X, Y, and Z. Basically, he sets this trail cam up, we sit it in the area, and if it detects any movement, it will take five, one, two, three, four, five rapid photographs, and then if it still detects movements after that, it will then record a 30-second video. Um, but that is what he that is what our first experience of that night is. Do you want to go from there?

SPEAKER_00 41:11

Yeah, so I mean it's bare, it's it's it's you've got to kind of like make note of the fact that you haven't set off that motion like even walking on the outside. I think we tested that theory heavily. So I feel I think that's important to to mention that. But um, yeah, um so kind of after that, like 15 minutes later, um, the main door opened and um it opened behind Dan. Yeah. I remember because I was stood in front of Dan at the end. And that was like while he's in mid-investigation, so the door has not been touched. It's not clear whether it had been fully latched beforehand, but it looked like it just closed right up until it moved.

SPEAKER_01 42:00

Yes, I remember because I was stood, um Dan was stood behind me because we were in the corner of the room and he was setting up a static cam in uh what is the Disney room, and he's setting it up, and he stood behind the camera checking the checking the the screen, and I'm stood to his left, and it opens up and he goes, Can I just open? I went I don't think so. He's like, Yeah, I'm pretty sure it just opened. And we tried to recreate it, but it's a heavy old door. You know, these things were meant to stop invasions, like these aren't like replica doors, these are original doors that were supposed to stop the French coming in. I know it's not very hard, you know. You just have to say no and they'll stop. But these were heavy doors used to actually wanting to stop people coming through. These aren't just things that are gonna be done by a light breeze, these are heavy doors, yeah. Um that kind of thing you can explain away, you know. You can talk yourself out of that one. A door that wasn't quite shut, the building set in a particularly strong breeze, that's fine.

SPEAKER_00 43:10

Yeah, but a few minutes a few minutes later, um, the team hears a fud and footsteps uh coming from the tunnel directly behind the room that they were standing in. So not from the outside, not from another team, but from an empty tunnel behind a room that had already had the people in it.

SPEAKER_01 43:28

Yeah, so I heard that all myself. Um because my first investigation, um I don't want to it's it's really weird because like I said to you before I started, I didn't I don't want to give this sort of like I'm being very dramatic. I wanted to be I wanted to present myself with like, oh I'm a I'm a seasoned investigator, I've got this. No, I uh I didn't react well under my calm. I I sort of I remember you were quite um I had like both both you and Georgia were very um wary and I was timid timid that first night yeah I was I'm not like I am now I'll do whatever I want now but that was because you had you know eventually like later on in that night you actually had a burst and experienced so yeah uh and Georgia did too and I think you both experienced it at the same time where nobody else did so um so that was worth kind of like taking that on board as well but um so yeah I mean how did you handle that yeah in the moment I sort of looked around for people to sort of be like hey how should I react to um looked at Dan and Dan was like yeah I'm cool I've been doing this for 10 years don't need to it was as far as just some just some ghostly footsteps me and Krabby have done a lot worse um it was sort of a bit well we're familiar with footsteps especially with ones that are running up towards us as well and you can't see anyone and you're like did that just happen yeah yeah no I get I get that I had to log it you know um keep the time you know keep keep track of the time and just and just keep cool but for people that are going on their first investigations don't feel like you're supposed to be this absolutely um seasoned veteran straight away it's stupid to think that you're gonna be it really is just take it and and how it comes and just give yourself a natural reaction to things.

SPEAKER_00 45:24

That's the thing uh you know you've you've really got to just experience it for yourselves and and I even recommend just not doing it with equipment. Got your eyes and ears at the end of the day I love a bit of eyes and ears yeah yeah I don't you know it's probably the best way. But then 20 minutes after that uh 924 in the floor level tunnels a whistle again we've mentioned that but it was clear you know followed by a second whistle which was then heard by multiple people and this is interesting because this was already something that I had heard earlier which nobody had heard. Yeah so again when you're saying like well you know how did you feel like you know um breaking bread if you like with your new with your new people and they must be thinking why is this guy hearing whistles and then for it to happen and then everyone hears it you're like hated. Yeah maybe maybe he's right after all.

SPEAKER_01 46:14

But it's interesting because this is both groups as well at this point.

SPEAKER_00 46:16

This is group A in one location group B in the other location both hearing this but what's interesting and it's probably worth noting as well is that since this investigation the amount of investigations that we've done after this and we've heard whistling as well and we're thinking that's never really happened before. We heard some at Fort Source did as well there you go is something kind of connected to our group in terms of the way to make themselves known to us is by whistling like everywhere we've gone we've heard whistling. You know what Dan always asks Dan will whistle yeah Dan always asks can you can you copy and he'll all the time and so when we're talking about investigations that are coming up we're going to talk about whistling again um but from what I heard again it was definitely a man and he it was as clear as day is like as if he was whistling for his dog. That's the only way I can describe it. But then we've got the laser grid.

SPEAKER_01 47:14

Yeah one of Alan's toys again um and this is the one I think about the most like from the whole night so you know we'll say half past nine clear break in the grid observed on a window section left window second pain up I remember this and then something crosses that beam you know I remember this because I was uh I remember this it was facing into a room the laser grid it was sat down in the door of the room facing into the room and I remember just being stood back and and looking to my right not looking to my right and seeing the person in front of me look to their right in through the window of the room and they just went suddenly just they they literally went something just broke that laser grid um and I was so annoyed because if it had been like two seconds afterwards it'd have been me. But uh yeah that's what I remember. Um but it interrupts the but clearly we've observed it being interrupted.

SPEAKER_00 48:14

Yeah I mean it interrupts it cleanly in a way I mean the the way a solid object moving through a beam would um but here's the important part is that we didn't just log it and move on we tested it ourselves someone walked through that same section of the grids afterwards uh obviously deliberately to see whether the disturbance pattern matched the of what we've seen uh and it did so whatever broke that beam behaved exactly the way a physical body walking through it would have behaved as well.

SPEAKER_01 48:44

I mean it doesn't prove anything but it's uh it definitely tells you something about what we observed.

SPEAKER_00 48:51

Well it rules out the boring explanation you know insects don't produce that kind of break a change in ambient light doesn't produce that kind of break either something moved through that space at height at the right pace in the right pattern on a window ledge in a locked empty fort in the middle of the night when there was obviously no one else around yeah it literally just says I wasn't in the room for that one um I was actually the next case mate over but I was really gutted you know um it was it was quite interesting for me because obviously you know the thuds the lights the whistling and all that stuff I can get by that that's not a problem you know that is what it is but to hear um to hear that somebody's in a figure you know not maybe a figure but we've observed something that that is not a sound it's not a noise it's it's we've observed something yeah that's quite that was quite striking to me on my first investigation. Yeah yeah I mean that I mean you know that's the moment that it kind of shifts for everyone right um and that obviously is the first time for your own skepticism as well that comes into it. To be tested yeah 100% but we're gonna have to hold that thought because we're we're now gonna have to make this a two-parter

Questions for the Hosts: Spirits, False Positives and Spiders

SPEAKER_00 50:11

yeah because uh we we've literally we're we're running out of time and it's always that way that we never know how long this episodes are gonna take anything but we've got a new segment and um we need to kind of um address that so um questions for the hosts yeah so this is questions for the hosts and this is something that's obviously come out of the feedback from the um uh from our subscribers or the viewers that have left comments on YouTube or uh the other downloads as well so again thank you for um contacting us this is what's great with what we want yeah I mean we've just got 500 downloads confirmed as well which is fantastic so again thank you for being part of that subscribing and doing everything that we asked you to do.

SPEAKER_01 50:55

Yeah you're the OGs as well so when we're big and famous we'll um we'll remember we'll remember you. Yeah yeah and you can go on investigations with us as our special guests we promise.

SPEAKER_00 51:03

Yeah yeah I mean obviously we listen to what you say and that is why this podcast show is so important because it's not just about what we say we want the feedback we want the criticism we want the the the answering back we want the explanation yeah but we you know equally we want your your take on the subject as well and I think that's uh yeah I mean that's credit to uh the subjects that we're talking about as well I think so let's get into the first question shall we because we've got a couple of questions uh Leslie asks us why are there hundreds of spirits in certain locations well first of all there isn't but we don't know that for sure we we we don't go to um uh a a location and and know that there are hundreds of spirits there maybe if you've gone to a battlefield and thousands of people have died you know maybe you can kind of say you know you know you've possibly got a hundred spirits here but you don't know for sure right it's like yeah you could say I'll go to a cemetery with like thousands of dead bodies there it's not to say that they're all just sat there waiting for someone to come in.

SPEAKER_01 52:22

No it's um it's it's difficult isn't it because obviously you go to these places of um it's strange because these places if the theory holds they're supposed to be emotionally charged they're supposed to be significant they're supposed to be places of trauma or experience yeah um that's the theory that you go to the yeah so when I say like a battlefield it's because it's got that residual energy question yeah is residual energy is not a spirit no it's um it's a replaying of time it's a replaying of time it's a it's a scar left on the environment by some form of trauma. So just because which could be linked with geothermic energy as well like that maybe the two combining together water water nearby and fire you know ley lines yep all that all that all that stuff can converge onto one place and make it particularly um spirit friendly um and and make it there to be easily imprinted upon um but I think that the important distinction between spirits and residual energy is intelligence and purpose and uh ability to communicate on a on an actual sensible not sensible level but an actual like on a level yeah um you know residual energy is just going to replay like foot like footsteps you know bits and pieces like that they're stone tape theory um I think to answer the question as well to Leslie is that I've never gone to a location and someone has said there's hundreds of spirits here by the way it's never happened. No I think the most I've heard is like seven yeah you know and and even then that's you know you talk in a big place you know like Dover Castle you know might have ten. But again you never hear from those ten people either no you don't and and Dover Castle you know is a thousand years old you know that's one spirit every hundred years that's not bad you know um hundreds of spirits um well I mean for Burgoyne had 145 years of military use generations of soldiers yeah and we might we might have three and how many of those people would have died and maybe you know lingered on maybe it's it's this is the problem is that you're never gonna be able to answer that question because we don't know number one if there are ghosts how you become one what sort of recipe that you need to what sort of recipe that you need to be able to conjure up to be able to stick around you know well if it falls back down to that kind of like do you you know maybe in your head you think I don't want to go to hell because I might not go to heaven because of the stuff I've done in my life but that's something else. But um hundreds of spirits no a few spirits yes with considerable residual energy is definitely a possibility.

SPEAKER_00 55:27

Yeah yeah yeah and I and again I believe that everything is consisting of energy not necessarily a hundred of spirits but you know what's to say that this this residual energy or the energy that gets manifested in that area it it it could also be a way of connecting to multiple spirits.

SPEAKER_01 55:46

Would you be more inclined to say that areas that have um a higher level of residual energy are more likely to have an active um an active spirit yeah yeah I'd say so yeah so I think the more residual energy that you have the more um yeah the old knocks the old thumps the old back bumps in the night I think the more likely you are to be able to have an environment that will foster uh in an intelligent being um and then that's where you get you know it won't be a hundred spirits yeah it might be the residual energy of somebody but the spirit might be of somebody else and then that's where it can cross the line but thank you for the question as we really do appreciate it.

SPEAKER_00 56:24

Yeah and I mean um just to ask you a quick question to finish on that is there have you ever entered a place and felt that you were overcrowded by somebody who's not in a room? Uh yes um but that's a part two right go for half I mean um I experienced that at Kelverdon and in exactly the same spot and in the same room where I think it was uh me Laura and a couple of others were walking around Laura and I both felt that there was a like an overcrowding moment in that room where it was very very dark.

SPEAKER_01 56:58

The basement of Fortnite okay basement we'll get onto that yeah because that's a scary place.

SPEAKER_00 57:04

I don't like that that doesn't happen very often though where you do feel legitimately overcrowded and and like to the notion of where you're you're kind of like feeling claustrophobic and you have to kind of get out of there.

SPEAKER_01 57:15

Right Rich thank you for your question Rich.

SPEAKER_00 57:18

Rich asks us how do you test and prove that your equipment isn't giving false positives which is a great question to ask yeah and um Dan has prepared an answer for myself to read out on his behalf so I will start that now so uh the honest answer is that no single active sorry the honest answer is that no single activation proves anything paranormal. Before an investigation we check the equipment the batteries and settings and establish normal readings for the location. During a session we log the time who is present and what else is happening nearby we look for ordinary causes first phones, radios, wiring, movement, vibration, drafts, moisture, insects and even other pieces of equipment. If something activates we try to recreate it under the same conditions. We move people and devices repeat the question or action swap equipment where possible and check where another camera or recorder captured the same event. A result becomes more interesting when it is responsive repeatable or independently recorded but even then we call it unexplained evidence not proof of a spirit false positives are always possible our job is to pretend they aren't uh it is to eliminate as many as we can and be honest about what remains yeah so I think that's that that's really important.

SPEAKER_01 58:42

So we had this interesting discussion the other day um Krabby was talking to me about the use of cat balls um about how people feel about them within the paranormal the paranormal community and about um the response that people have to investigators that use them and normally it's not great right yeah I mean um I'm a little uh uh annoyed by how they've been portrayed by some debunkers or how they've been kind of like almost ridiculed to the point of like they're saying if you use that in an investigation we're not gonna take you seriously it's really annoyed me this is an environment where we don't know if this exists we don't know we we don't know if if any of what we're doing is real we don't know that's what we're here to find out and the truth is is if you don't know it's real you don't know how to to investigate it and just because something costs six hundred pounds and is made by a company that claims to be this all knowing benevolent omnipotent being of the paranormal and we've got a five pound cap ball from Amazon there's no definitive way to document something that we don't know exists. It's all about trial and error and and and using logic and and experiences and consistent repeating and reports so just because somebody's using a piece of equipment that you might not feel credible about yourself there's no need to completely dismiss it because at the end of the day you might have just gone spent 700 quid for something that actually doesn't do anything because none of this exists we don't know.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:28

It's no different from a fisherman using a different type of bait a fisherman might be using something that's electronic rather than natural um cheat in the system.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:37

Exactly fishing fishing in its essence can be done with a rod and a float that's the most basic float fishing and then you've got the people that use ground bait and they use bite alarms so they can go to sleep when they're doing it. I mean I've caught fish using just bread and sweet corn. Yeah exactly you know my granddad my granddad used a hook rod and he used to he used to use crust to float on the top to catch carp. And then the in the bay next to him there's a bloke using uh a 700 pound match rod with a bite alarm and it had a feeder on the bottom and the ground bait into hell and my granddad's pulled out 11 pound carp and this bloke's there with catching nothing.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:14

And at the end of the day it's a good analogy right because paranormal ghost hunting you know it's very much like fishing. You can go to a you can go to a lake or you can go to um uh a venue and you'll catch absolutely nothing.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:28

Yeah if you like fishing guys you are the right tempermented being right to become a paranormal investigator. Yes absolutely I mean you know if you've got the patience for it as well then you know why not do fishing as well as paranormal investigating as well you can love fishing then is it just drop the rod down make sure it's secure and then you can go off into the woods listen out for your um fishing alarm no not you know that mate we've just told you what be a purist crabby no bite alarms oh okay sorry sorry yeah okay or maybe not the same you know do the same thing at the same time then but anyway last I'm rambling on again uh let's stop it um Rick someone called Lucy sounds familiar she's asked this question um how scared of spiders are you right I'm not scared of spiders okay um I don't like when they touch me fair enough um I mean I don't know anyone who does other than no the people that work with them in a zoo like um I I I can go to the zoo and I can look at them in the tank and I'm like that's a really cool like that's a really pretty animal like it's you know X, Y, and Z. Doesn't mean it don't freak me out a little bit yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:41

My issue with spiders has kind of changed when I went to Australia. Like now over here we get little spiders which I can handle like you know when you walk in you might see them in a fence or you know on a you know in a cobweb on a cold day or something like that. In Australia in that same kind of essence of how we have spiders they are triantulous and that was something that I couldn't handle because I I did numerous walks going from beaches to beaches and it was quite lengthy and you see these spiders and yeah I just couldn't handle it.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:14

I don't blame you mate honestly they're not my favourite thing in the world but I'm not gonna sit here and pretend that uh I love them because I don't they freak me out a little bit especially on an investigation when you're in the dark and then you shine your torch and then you you're met with a spider that's got a big old white egg thing on its back. Dan if you can insert the photograph of the one that you took at Forthorsted last week because oh my lord that was like body the size of my thumb it was a massive boy you know

Coming Up in Fort Burgoyne Part 2

SPEAKER_01 1:03:44

had some big old fangs in it as well and I'm just like them ones like you know like the the the the daddy long legs and all that lot don't give it don't care about them. They're fine. It's the big black ones yeah run. You know that as soon as you shine a light on them they're gone. I don't like them. Let's do a little bit of teasing for the next episode yeah yes so we've got a fair bit to come up with like we're still talking about the remainder of the investigation we have the room dubbed the the Disney room right Disney room the Disney room which um kind of has some uh interesting stories we have a story by Laura that had um a personal experience which was very interesting which kind of led to her kind of having something happen at home as well but we can touch upon that um and yeah I mean it it is literally just the the remainder of the of the investigation really to be honest with you um you know to talk about the the the tunnels more in depth like you know because we were on the top floor we haven't even touched about going yeah deeper down into the basement yeah the basement was terrifying um yeah and equally you know the the evidence that we captured we have to talk about that you know there's stuff that we can't explain you know we'll talk about that there's that one of my favourite pieces of evidence comes out of this um comes out of this investigation and uh I'll make sure that Dan's on that one and it's our own interpretation as well what what we all feel like you know like looking back you know um the you know the the things that we've caught what we think about it and the theories behind it as well just we've got a minute left to record here I feel like we captured a I feel like we captured a spirit on camera that's what I think from this investigation if you want to hear more if you're excited if you want to see that join us again in two days time uh two weeks time yes where we'll be putting you through your paces and letting you know exactly how we found this investigation.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:47

Yeah stick with us obviously because we've just run out of time.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:50

We have um that's my fault very sorry guys but if you have enjoyed this podcast please like follow subscribe Apple Music Amazon Spotify all the stuff that you use YouTube hit a like give a notification bell to let you know when we post but equally just reach out and just yeah and just tell us that we're crap. It's all interaction we really appreciate it.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:09

Thank you. There is no kind of bad bad uh press as they say it's all helpful so you know hit us on the comments as well if you've been to Fort Burgoyne or you know of it and you know or maybe you know you've got family members who might have served there you know it'd be it'd be kind of cool to hear from that. So yeah stick around stay with us and um follow us again on the next episode.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:30

Yeah without further ado that has been Case Files episode 12. Episode 12 part one Fort Burgoyne have a great night guys thank you thank you very much see you on the next one