Normalizing Cuckolding with Ben & Roxy Dover

This week, Chris and Lexie welcome Ben and Roxy Dover, two of the leading voices behind the Normalize Cuckolding movement, for an honest conversation about changing the way the world views cuckolding. Together, they discuss why the lifestyle continues to be misunderstood, how education and open dialogue can replace shame with understanding, and why there is no "right" way to explore a consensual cuckold relationship. They also share how concepts like the Cuckold Menu and the Cuckold Spectrum have helped couples realize that every relationship is unique.

The conversation goes beyond theory as Ben and Roxy reflect on their own journey, share their favorite cuckold experience, and discuss where they believe the community is headed in the years ahead. Whether you're new to the lifestyle, actively exploring it with your partner, or simply interested in hearing a thoughtful discussion about relationships, trust, and communication, this episode offers a fresh perspective on what it means to normalize cuckolding and create a more accepting community for everyone.

Ben & Roxy's Page: https://roxydover.com

Lexie's Page & Fansly: www.CuckoldressLexie.com

Email Us: Podcast@CuckoldressLexie.com 

Transcript

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SPEAKER_04 0:03

Hi my naughty friends, I'm cuckholdress Lexi Meadows, and welcome back to the Cupold Marriage Podcast. Today we're joined by two of the most recognizable voices in the cuckold community, Ben and Roxy Dover. Through their normalized cuckholding movement, along with the cuckold menu and the cuckold spectrum, they've helped countless couples realize there isn't just one right way to explore this lifestyle. So today we're diving into the inspiration behind those ideas and how the community is evolving and some of their favorite experiences over the years and the advice that they give to couples if they were just beginning their journey. But before we jump into today's conversation, a couple quick announcements. First, I want to say a huge thank you to all of the cucks who have subscribed to my Fansley. I absolutely love interacting with you guys, getting to know you, showing you my naughty side. If you'd like to join or you're interested in booking a private chat with me, you can find everything on my website, cuckholdrislexy.com. And don't forget to follow us on Blue Sky at the Cuckhold Marriage Pod for episode announcements, updates, and conversations with our amazing community. All right, let's get into it. Chris, my cucky, you want to kick us off?

SPEAKER_02 1:14

Yes. Yeah. It's so good. It's good to be here with um Ben and Roxy. So Ben and Roxy, um, I uh we we were introduced to the two of you on a Telegram group that we're in with um with real cucks and real bulls and real hot wives. It's it's pretty cool. Um and uh immediately when I saw the normalizing cuck hold work that cuckolding work that you're doing, I knew that we had to have you on because I think that's one of the there's so many misconceptions about cuck holding. We did a whole episode about the misconceptions, but really when I looked at at the work that you all were doing and the content on your on your page, it's just it's so it's so good. Um so thank you so much for being with us today. Welcome to the show.

SPEAKER_03 1:56

Thank you. We're so happy to be here.

SPEAKER_02 1:58

Yeah, so why don't we start by kind of actually just tell us a little bit about you two? Tell us a little bit about your dynamic, um, how long you've been in the lifestyle. Just anything to introduce yourself to our listeners.

SPEAKER_01 2:12

So we met while swinging with our ex spouses.

SPEAKER_03 2:18

And that was about 12. Yes, that was about 12 years ago.

SPEAKER_01 2:23

So I had been in the lifestyle probably for 10 years prior to that. And then we got together and we said, you know what, we're just gonna slow down and build this relationship. We're not gonna have anyone else involved, it's gonna be just us. And five days later, good old Craigslist back then was bringing guys into our bedroom.

SPEAKER_02 2:45

So um I'd have a Lexi was I mean, I I wasn't with Lexi at that time, but she tells me about her Craigslist days. I yeah, I I wish that that stuff was still around. I get jealous that she had all that fun before me. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 3:00

The good old days, I'll tell you.

SPEAKER_01 3:02

So at that point, I already knew I was kind of a cuck. I I enjoyed that piece of it. I got to the point where I swung so much, like it got vanilla. It wasn't that much fun for me. And I kind of needed that mental, you know, mind fuck to like really get going. So um I had a conversation with her about hey, here's what I'm really into. I'd prefer it if maybe like you were just with guys and being the slut that she is. She had no problem with that at all.

SPEAKER_03 3:34

Yeah, I ran with it.

SPEAKER_02 3:36

That that's really interesting that you, you know, and there's so many people in this lifestyle that started swinging first and then moved into this. And Lexi and I never did that. We never did the swinging. I mean, we went straight to stag vixen and then from stag vixen to cuck hold cuckholdress. But your story is is really interesting that you met when you were swinging with your ex-spouses. So now you started the normalizing cuckolding movement. If you had five minutes with somebody who immediately says, that's cheating, because that that that that's what we get a lot, right? Is that that's just cheating. What's the argument you'd make um on what they're missing if somebody said that's cheating? How how would you all respond to that?

SPEAKER_03 4:17

Well, it's definitely not cheating. Um we're both in it because we both want to be. You know what I mean? Like we both love the lifestyle.

SPEAKER_01 4:26

Yeah, the in one of the parts or one of the reasons we started the normalized cuck golden is, and we are guilty of this as well, but the porn has a stereotype to it that is not accurate at all. Um like most stereotypical real life cucks usually are intelligent, emotionally mature, they have a very stressful life, usually like an alpha male out of the bedroom, and really it's a release in the bedroom that they're going for. That's that's me. Like outside the bedroom, I have to be big alpha in charge of everything, type male. And I'm I'm over it. Like in the bedroom, just take it all away from me. I want the taboo, I want to lose it. I need that mental, you know, I need something going on that's just taboo wrong to actually like really get off. So that's kind of how we ended up here. And that's I want that. Like the the reluctant cuck cleaning up a cream pie. I've never known an actual cuck who's not just diving in immediately because they're not really reluctant. They want that. Like, like that's not really the real stereotype. That's not what we come across. So it's really for both of us. I mentally need it, and it's my stress relief.

SPEAKER_03 5:42

And well, she gets to I get to sleep with other men. Mm-hmm. That's always nice for a genius.

SPEAKER_02 5:51

Yeah, and I mean we're we're this is not gonna be a that we're not gonna release like a visual that you know aspect of this particular podcast, but you know, Ben is not a small guy. Ben is not the kind of guy you want to fuck with. If I saw you in a bar, Ben, I wouldn't screw with you. So like that's you know the the stereotypical image of this like pathetic little cuck in the corner who is just you know crying. Little weakling, this little weakling who's crying as their wife is like doing like that's just not I mean, it makes a great porn. I mean, trust me. Yeah, it makes for great porn. It's just not what really happens.

SPEAKER_01 6:28

Well, um and and the issue we run into is in real life, all these bulls talk a big game online, and then they show up in my bedroom, and then they look up at me, and then all of a sudden it's all like out the window, there's performance problems, and we're not as dominant as we said we're gonna be, and it it turns into it, doesn't exactly help the scene um being my size.

SPEAKER_04 6:51

So yeah, I could see that. So, what inspired you guys to create the cuckold menu? And was there a moment where you guys realized that maybe people were treating cuck holding like it's one activity instead of hundreds of possible dynamics?

SPEAKER_03 7:08

So when we created the menu, we basically made it for our presentation that we had, um, just so people had like the visual.

SPEAKER_01 7:17

Um Yeah, there's no online tutorial, so we kind of had to throw something together to try to explain the lifestyle. And a couple of things that we tried to work through was the spectrum, because again, the stereotype doesn't exist, and what people are into is all over the place. Um, and then actually when we gave our first presentation at Exotica, there was a gentleman in the audience who's like, you know, what's really interesting about Cuckholden, and he was into it, is it like is the kink that holds all the other kinks, almost like every other fetish can play into it. So it's almost like you you your guy who needs that mental, you know, whatever to to really get off, but then you can also incorporate all the other kinks and things that you're into as well, and then it creates a multitude of different ways to play.

SPEAKER_02 8:05

Yeah, and it really does. I I mean, really, and at the end, we're gonna obviously, you know, do get your website and all that stuff. But when you look at it, it looks like a menu at a restaurant. And it's it's really it's really interesting because um one of the biggest takeaways for me from the cuck hold menu is that there isn't one right way to be a cuckold. And and I feel like a lot of times people try to box in, like, that's not real cuck holding, or that's you know, that that's yeah, it and and it drive it drives me bonkers.

SPEAKER_04 8:32

Everyone thinks they know best.

SPEAKER_02 8:34

Everyone thinks they know best, and there isn't one right way. Why do you think so many people in the community still try to gatekeep what real cuckolding is?

SPEAKER_03 8:41

Um people are are judgy and they want to feel better about themselves, I think.

SPEAKER_01 8:47

And everyone fears the unknown, they fear what's different, and even in this lifestyle, I don't think a true cuck would gatekeep. Usually you're emotionally mature enough to just be like inclusive. Like, if you've ever talked with the uh the guys from Cuck My Life podcast, so hopefully lived around here and we spent some time with him. We'd go to cigar bars and hang out. He's the number one, you know, proponent of that. Like, don't tell someone they're doing something wrong. If you want to identify as that, let them identify. Well, it doesn't bother you, just leave them alone, do your own thing. Like, it's not like a big deal. Um, he's a hundred percent right. Um, what does he always say that everyone's mad about the sex that they're not invited to? Like they're not having, like, just like everyone wants to get involved and get judgy. And I think with the normalized cuckold and one of our big pushes was listen, when it's really about kink shaming. Don't kink shame.

SPEAKER_03 9:43

Don't yuck my yum.

SPEAKER_01 9:45

Exactly. So, like, that's what the whole thing is about. What really bothered us, I think, that really pushed us to the normalized cuckold in movement, is it's like that in the lifestyle. Like, swingers are super judging, but they're the worst. Like, they're the ones who we've always run into, or like, oh, you're doing what? Oh, just one of you are playing. They're the ones who are gonna be like, it's cheating because it's not fair. And it's like you're you're on the fringe of society with us as well, and you're gonna judge what I'm doing. Like, are you kidding me? Like, so really that's where we'd really like to see some movement. I mean, ultimately, society at this point's not gonna accept all of it, but like if we could just get the lifestyle itself to just be open to the things going on inside of it without being judgy, that would be great.

SPEAKER_02 10:34

Yeah, I I completely agree with that. It does feel like that, and there's so many big events for swingers, and they're they're and it if we show up to one of them, it's almost um, yeah, you almost feel a little bit left out, or people look at you sideways. Like, especially they they're fine with Lexi, but they often look at me like, wait, you don't play? And it's just this weird, and I'm like, no, I don't. Like, I'm cool with that.

SPEAKER_04 10:58

Yeah, they give us a look, like, um, okay.

SPEAKER_02 11:04

And and and then they go back and they and they hook up with other people, you know, other than that than their partner. So yeah, I I think it is a little bit judgy. Not they're all not all like that, by the way. But we met some really cool swingers.

SPEAKER_01 11:14

We're making some generalizations. It's not everybody. I'll always throw that out there, but a lot of times that's what we've run into as well. So Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 11:23

Yeah. And sometimes, you know, you uh you'll you'll meet couples because it's always the swingers at the the lifestyle clubs and everything. And it'll be really awkward because it's like, hey, do you want to play with Lexi, but you can't play with Chris? You know? Right. And so it's that we run into that awkward situation. I mean, we obviously haven't like hooked up with too many people at the sex club, but um, we run into that before, and it was a very just awkward conversation. And um so yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:01

But I mean it's gone down okay. I mean, we we have hooked up with with you know people who are swingers, and that a lot of times they'll both be playing with Lexi and I'll be there like playing with Lexi too, you know. So a lot of times it becomes like everybody's focusing on on her, which is kind of cool.

SPEAKER_04 12:16

Guys, if you could add one item to the cuckold menu that isn't on there already, what do you think it'd be and why?

SPEAKER_03 12:22

I think maybe more taboo stuff, right?

SPEAKER_01 12:25

Yeah, the menu actually is a pretty again, generalization of some of the more popular kinks. There's a whole lot more that's not on there, much more extreme stuff. Like the whole BNWO type of fetish. Um what else is there? There's the the cuck and mommy type of role play, a little age regression. Like there's there's a bazillion different things. Um, and again, we kind of just threw it together so you can kind of see some of the things because what we put it together is a presentation, is I think it was cuckled in 101, is what we actually called the the seminar. Um, so I mean, I don't know if I how much deeper I would really go because then you're gonna start answering a whole bunch of questions that's gonna take forever.

SPEAKER_04 13:09

That's true.

SPEAKER_02 13:12

Is there something that that cut that couples are or somebody's surprised about that they see on the menu where they're like, oh, I didn't even think think about that.

SPEAKER_01 13:19

Um, I don't think we've run into too much of that. They've come and they've looked at it. I think people have seen stuff that they're into on there, and I think we've run into couples who've seen things on there that they're into, and they're not a cut couple either. Like, oh, that's part of that as well. Like, you could do that in that type of relationship. Well, yeah, you can do whatever you want. There's no wrong way to do it. That's that's what's great about this. Um, I will say that some of we were at Exotica, and there was one guy who was running his mouth about cucks, oh stupid cucks, these weak little men, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Really?

SPEAKER_03 13:55

An exotica? Yeah. He was talking to me and he was like, Oh, what's cuck holding? And I was like talking about it, and he's like, Oh, like weak little men.

SPEAKER_01 14:03

And I like his friend was there, and his friend's like, No, it's not like that. It's not like that at all. You don't understand. And then she was like, Hey, babe, come here for a second.

SPEAKER_03 14:10

I was like, Hey, can you come over here? And we want you to talk to this guy about cuck holding. And the guy was kind of like and the friend was like, Go ahead, come on, tell him what you were saying. Yeah, you're a little intimidated now, buddy. Yeah. It is he looks like does he look like a you know, poor little man sitting in a corner crying? No. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:33

Yeah. No, I completely agree. I I think it is funny sometimes when the bulls think that they're you know, I'm a I'm a I'm a trained fighter. Like I could beat the shit out of most of these people. But I choose not to. And that's what that's I think Ben, you know, as as a big guy, you know, a strong guy too. I think that's part of what is is powerful that we do is we lay down that power, right? We lay it down, we give it to our wives, and and we we let another guy have fun, you know, and and we don't have to, you know, we're not being forced into this. Like we're choosing this. And I think that's I think that's something that a lot of people miss is we're not these, we're not these weaklings. I I mean, look, in the bedroom, we may play that role, but it's not, it's not reality. It's it's a it's a game.

SPEAKER_01 15:20

Well, and the other thing too is the compersion piece. Like I get off on her getting off, which I think gets to a point where you're emotionally mature enough to put someone else in front of you. Like, listen, I get it. I have a small dick. She wants a giant dick. I can't change that. Okay. So go ahead. Let I will enjoy you doing it. And somehow, luckily, my brain got wired all screwed up, but it gets off on that. So why not just lean into it and enjoy it?

SPEAKER_02 15:47

Amen. I I completely agree with that. I mean, yeah, lean into lean into that. Don't know why we're wired this way, but have fun.

SPEAKER_04 15:54

Yeah. Yes. So the cuckold spectrum that you guys have, it challenges the idea that every couple follows the same path. Um, have you found that most couples tend to stay in one area of the spectrum, or do they naturally kind of evolve over time?

SPEAKER_03 16:11

I think that everyone naturally evolves over time. I think um the more you're doing it, the more and the more like things you're doing like on the menu.

SPEAKER_01 16:23

Um just lost my train. You have to keep pushing that boundary to kind of get the same sexual satisfaction. Like when we're together and we're just having sex alone and it's just the two of us, the filthy things that we say during sex, like Jeff Bezos is gonna have us arrested at some point with the Alexa sitting in this room, with the things that you hear coming out of his bedroom sometimes. Like, like I think and what we see is that people slowly enter it. Um, and if they're kind of captivated by it and they're they're into it, they're gonna keep pushing and pushing and pushing. I mean, after you've done this for like 10 years, you're always kind of trying to find that next thing. Like, that was really hot. Now we've done that 17 times. What else are we gonna do? So I think the longer you've been in it, we see people get pushed further through that spectrum. And it's all over the place, too. You know, sometimes become less submissive or more submissive. And it's really, again, like looking at it, it's it's a spectrum. Where are you on the spectrum? You could be anywhere. There's no wrong way to do it. Sometimes maybe you back up a little bit because you kind of got bored doing something else. So we just, yeah, I think everyone evolves through it and you're gonna see them all over the place trying out different things. So I think once you start feeling comfortable with your partner and you're you can be open and honest, then you can really start to play around with it and start to explore those other things.

SPEAKER_03 17:39

So good answer.

SPEAKER_02 17:40

Yeah, I I think that that the level of comfort with your partner is is critical. I think that um, yeah, I I mean it's just so when I think to where we started and and really started kind of very stag vixen-y, and you know, there that there was none of the teasing or humiliation and that kind of stuff. I was always there to where we are now, and I'm just, you know, I don't know where we're gonna end up. But you really do move down that spectrum, and it's okay. Like no matter where you are on that spectrum, whether you're more staggy or more cucky, you know, you're still part of the team. And I think that's what um I think that's what we need to do is be a little bit more inclusive about the way that we think about this stuff. There's no one way to do it.

SPEAKER_01 18:23

Right, do what you enjoy. Just you get one shot at this, like life. Like, have fun. Yeah. If you enjoy it, go for it. And and I think the other thing is relationships, cuckled relationships. Like she can literally tell me that guy fucks me better than you do. Like, if you can be that honest with your partner, I mean, when it comes to oops, I spent too much money on the credit card, or oh, I forgot to leave dinner out, like you can have those conversations because the conversations you have in the bedroom are 10 times worse. So it makes the whole relationship better and stronger because the communication and the honesty, and I know that I can trust her to be be a hundred percent honest because if you tell me my dick's too small for you and other guys fucking better, not much else that you're gonna tell me that's gonna upset me.

SPEAKER_02 19:07

So yeah, I think I I honestly think there's so much that a vanilla couple can learn from folks in the lifestyle about communication and honesty. I I s I swear, like that again, the the level of intimacy that we have versus what I see out there in a lot of vanilla couples. I wish that I'm not saying everybody has to be in the lifestyle, but everybody needs to learn how to communicate better and be more intimate with each other in whatever way that that looks like.

SPEAKER_04 19:36

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SPEAKER_02 20:17

You know, one thing is do you do you see people spending too much time asking themselves the question? Am I a real cuckhold? Like like do people do you see that? Have you had people say, Am I, am I really a cuck? Or like, am I am I not? Like, have you heard that from guys? So what's your feeling on cuck versus stag?

SPEAKER_03 20:35

You're everyone, you're all a cucks. You're a cuck. If you're a stag, you're a cuck. You're you're all if you watch your wife have sex with another man and you enjoy it, you're a cuck. That's my feeling on it.

SPEAKER_01 20:47

Like it there's a reason for labels, and it helps define where you're at. But when you look at like the definition of cuckold, it's just someone with an unfaithful wife. And then there's gonna be degrees of that past that. So when someone's like, Am I a cuck? Yeah, you are. And here's the thing, and and we brought this up at one of the seminars, which kind of opens to people's minds. We're like, every one of those porn stars out there at Exotica in their booths, every single one of their boyfriends, they're a cuck. It's as simple as the definition. They're on faith, they're sleeping with someone else. So you gotta get rid of the negativity and the stigma attached to cuckold because people don't like that. Like, we don't want to we worry about labeling ourselves due to a stigma attached to it when the simple definition is someone who has an unfaithful life. Like they sleep with other people. You enjoy it, you don't enjoy it, you know, you're submissive to it, you like the humiliation. That's where the spectrum comes in. You're all cuckolds, it's just where on that spectrum are you? So I I I think we've seen people struggle with am I a cuck only because they're worried about that negative connotation and how they're worried they'll be perceived.

SPEAKER_02 21:54

So I think that that's all really good points. And actually, it reminds me of when we first started in the lifestyle, and I identified as a stag, and quite frankly. Part of it was I was afraid to give myself that label of cuck. Like I was actually worried about it. And we were in a um Now that? Yeah, I was. I was actually kind of worried about it, like saying that. And I was almost kind of embarrassed. And we were in a lifestyle club and somebody was asking, you know, oh, so you're a cuck. And I said, I I'm actually a stag. And and the the person actually said, There's not a lot of difference, dude. Like, I mean, your wife is getting done. There's there's natural humiliation in that. And then when we were in London, actually at a lifestyle club, a woman said the same thing. Actually, she just I didn't say I was a stag. I was just describing, so I don't play. She said, Oh, so you're a cuckold. And at that time, I still didn't use the word um cuckold. I I think I started too shortly after that. But it just finally like sunk in in me and and and something saying, like, yeah, you know what? That's what you are. Like, it's totally cool to say it. Like, it's just, it's just a word, cuck, stag, whatever. Like one you think like macho, one, you know, you're you're prideful, and one you think is more, you know, humiliation, but it's not. I'm the same human being. I I don't act any different when I call myself a stag than when I act that than I act now that I call myself a cuck. I'm the same, I'm the same person. So I think that's a really good point y'all are making.

SPEAKER_03 23:20

There's just such a huge stigma with the word cuck. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:24

Especially nowadays, where we're like in the political dialogue, it's being used as like a like an insert. It's being used as a which I which I find is which I find funny because it's go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 23:38

I'll see those memes and I'm like offended.

SPEAKER_01 23:40

I'm like, a cuck would never do that. Absolutely not.

SPEAKER_02 23:43

That is bullshit. Normally some wimpy, you know, political guy, you know, using that as a as a slur. And I just like I kind of laugh. I'm like, okay, dude, like you're real macho.

unknown 23:55

Like, come on.

SPEAKER_04 23:57

Yeah. Both Ben and Chris here could kick that guy's ass. Easy.

SPEAKER_05 24:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 24:03

Um, have you guys ever had a couple that told you that they they thought they wanted one thing, but then they looked at you know at the menu or the spectrum and realized that what they wanted was something completely different.

SPEAKER_03 24:16

Um so I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_01 24:20

You're not sure.

SPEAKER_03 24:22

I'm not sure if we had couples come to us and say that.

SPEAKER_01 24:25

I don't think we've had we've we have had couples who want to just get into the lifestyle altogether. Right. And of course, the guy's like, this is gonna be awesome. Let's let's let's open up the the relationship. And then he finds out it's a whole lot easier for her to find other partners, and then he finds no one, and then she's banging 35 dudes, and then he gets upset, and then they get divorced or something. I don't know. They always it's always a giant mess because it's hard to it's a Pandora's box, like once you open it to try to then be like, Well, I know that you've enjoyed all that attention, and it's not even like the sex. I think like for Roxy, a lot of it's the attention she gets non-stop from everyone that she really enjoys.

SPEAKER_03 25:06

So I do enjoy the attention, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:09

So once you cut that off, then there's all kinds of problems, and then she's resentful, this was your idea, and then so we've seen a lot of just try to get into the lifestyle. I think once you're in the lifestyle, and then you want to kind of go into like somewhere on the cuck spectrum, I think they have a pretty good idea kind of what they're getting into at that point. But we've seen some entrance issues into the lifestyle altogether with couples.

SPEAKER_02 25:32

Yeah. Now, do you all have a female led relationship in addition to the cuck holding?

SPEAKER_03 25:38

Maybe in the bedroom, um, but we don't bring it outside the bedroom.

SPEAKER_01 25:43

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 25:44

Outside the bedroom, he's kind of in charge.

SPEAKER_01 25:47

If we if we had a real FLR, we would live under an overpass in a cardboard box with 6,000 pairs of shoes. Uh Roxy's not good with making decisions. Um and oftentimes I need to come along to guide us to make adult decisions um along the way. So outside of the bedroom, I'm still gonna play the alpha male, which again plays into why I crave it so much in the bedroom, because between work and home and the kids and the bazillion other things I need to go deal with, like just someone come fucker and jam my face in that cream pie. Like I just want to like I want zero control whatsoever and humiliate the shit out of me and just let's let's do this.

SPEAKER_02 26:31

Yeah, I think that makes sense. And Lexi and I haven't talked a lot about our FLR um because we're still quite frankly trying to figure it out. Um, but you know, I know one thing is I I still I still make a good number of decisions, but it's to offload that responsibility from Lexi. So it's it's it's to it, you know, in my mind, it's part of the FLR is is is um uh taking that for for me, one of the biggest parts about the FLR is just relieving responsibility from her. I is is trying to do as much as I can so that she doesn't have to do that, whether it's small things like filling up a glass of wine or bigger things. Um that to me is uh is part of how we execute the FLR. But have you did have you got questions from folks about Alfal R's? Do people make incorrect assumptions about that?

SPEAKER_03 27:19

I don't think we've gotten many questions.

SPEAKER_01 27:21

I don't think we've gotten questions. I think there's just the assumption that if you're a cuck, like you're a cuck across the board. Again, it goes back to the stereotype, like he's not in control. Like she must be making all the decisions because she's banging other guys. Like it's not the case. I think everyone thinks that goes hand in hand. And again, looking at the spectrum, I believe I put that on there somewhere. Um that's like part of it. It doesn't have to be part of your cuck relationship. For us, it's not.

SPEAKER_04 27:47

So Yeah, and in in my coaching, you know, I've come across lots of couples that are into the cuck holding lifestyle, but there is no FLR. And you know, he's more in charge. So yeah, I don't think they have to go hand in hand at all. Um you guys have experienced so much together over the years, and looking back, what has been like your absolute favorite, favorite cuck holding experience and what made it so unforgettable?

SPEAKER_03 28:16

We have two separate um experiences. Like he has one that was better for him and I have one. Uh we had a situation where we were away with a bull and I actually locked him up outside by his PA piercing. Um and I locked him outside the window that I was fucking the dude in uh and it started downpouring out. He was locked to a stake in the ground um while we were inside and I gave zero fucks that it was raining on him. So by the time I got to him, he was soaking wet. Um and that's my favorite experience.

SPEAKER_00 29:02

That's epic. I love it. So mine this is this is why I got the PA Pearson.

SPEAKER_01 29:09

So we had a weekend away with a bull again. I got a nice Airbnb, and then I came up with this great idea where we took me to a shitty little hotel, then locked my dick up by the PA Pearson again to about four feet of chain to a 35-pound kettleball. And then she left me in that hotel room and went and spent the night with him. Like texting me, sending videos and shit. Then the next morning came back, had me eat her out because he just fucked her, eat the cream pie. She then pissed on me, and then unlocked me, and then we went back to the Airbnb for the second night. So we spent a night apart while my dick was locked up to a chain, which was locked to like a 35-pound kettleball. The big problem was showering that night. There's a lot of chain, it was really heavy, and you had to make sure you're holding the chain. That was the nightmare. Aside from that, it was all hot.

SPEAKER_03 30:06

So I mean, that's a really good story, and it was really hot and it was a fun experience, but I really loved you sitting outside in the porn.

SPEAKER_00 30:13

We could do both again. I'm fine with both. That was hot too.

SPEAKER_02 30:15

Hey, you gotta combine the two sometime. Man, both of those are so hot. I love um, I think it's only happened one time, but there was one time where Lexi was with a with a bull in a hotel, and I was in a hotel room like two floors up. Oh my gosh. Like that was so hot, or I just knew that she was like two floors down and just getting hammered. And then the next morning she had sex with him again, and then um came upstairs. So I saw her, like, you know, less than two minutes after she had finished with him, she came up to the hotel room. Oh my goodness. That was so fun. Um, I love those experiences. So, Ben, after you got inside, after you were soaking wet, like what happened? Did you get to dry off before you had fun? Like what, like, what are the logistics of when you were soaked?

SPEAKER_01 31:05

So we didn't really know the rain was coming. So that was kind of a surprise for all involved, which kind of just added to the whole thing. Um, I think once I get unlocked, they had been fucking all weekend. Like every time I turned around, they were fucking like we were outside, we were like hanging out, smoking some cigars, and then I look over and like she's riding him right there outside. Like this place is completely secluded, so we could do whatever we wanted. Um, I did go in, I do remember changing, but it wasn't time for me to play at that point, so I had to kind of just suck it up and and deal with it.

SPEAKER_03 31:40

So yeah, it wasn't it wasn't his turn yet.

SPEAKER_02 31:42

Yeah, that makes sense. Well, has there ever been one uh an experience where you thought was gonna be amazing, it sounded great, and it ended up not being, or it just was a disaster or something like that? Did anything like that happen to y'all?

SPEAKER_01 31:54

I I remember one where she tied me up in the other room in the house, told the guy I wasn't there, and my my balls were in like a clamp vice type thing. So, like my balls were like stuck and I was like tied up, like she had me handcuffed. And then she put my phone right there, which went to the camera in the bedroom. So I'm watching the whole thing unfold. He comes over, he's hung, he's sexy, whatever. And right before he pulls his pants down, I see he has a gun. And I'm like, okay, well, we need to come up with a better solution here on how we so he just had it on him normal, like he was a firefighter. I don't know why he had a gun, but normal New Hampshire guy, you know. So it was it wasn't a thing, but it it it started to make us think about well, maybe we need to worry about safety a little bit more, not just what's the hottest thing going on. Maybe that's someone that we want to play with a few times to make sure we know for sure before we go down that path again. So that one was kind of I forgot about that. A little scary gun.

SPEAKER_00 32:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 32:59

Sounds like it would have been terrifying.

SPEAKER_02 33:01

I don't know what I would have done at that point in time. My goodness.

SPEAKER_03 33:05

I didn't see the gun, so I had no idea until after, and he was like, Did he had a fucking gun? I was like, Oh I didn't know. Aren't you pretty glad that you didn't know at the time? Yeah, because I don't know, like what do I do? You have to leave, you have a gun. Like, I don't like I don't even know what I would have done in that situation if I saw the gun. Yeah, I can't even imagine.

SPEAKER_01 33:28

I was slightly tied up, so there's nothing I could tell.

SPEAKER_02 33:32

Yeah, that is the scary thing. Like, we like safety is something that that that that you really have to consider with these things, especially because you know, Roxy and Lexi a lot of times are alone with another guy. Um, so I Lexi will will often, you know, spend a long time talking to a guy before she gets heads to a bedroom. So at least that makes me feel better. But and a lot of times it's guys that that she's been talking to online or something like that. So it's very rare that she just hooks up with just like a stranger on the same. It happens, but um sometimes it's like a guy she meets at a bar or something like that. But safety is something that I do worry about, especially if I'm if I'm there, I'm I'm a little bit I'm okay. But if I'm not there, I I do worry. Uh we check in, you know, I look at her locations, all that kind of stuff.

SPEAKER_01 34:16

Yeah. Yeah. And this was the situation. Like she had talked to the guy for a while. She knew where he worked, had his name, where he was from. So it wasn't like, and I don't think we would get into we do some public play. We've been to adult theaters, glory holes. That's all like super safe. We're gonna use condoms anytime we get involved in something like that. We're not dragging any of those guys back to the hotel. Actually, we did once, I'd lie. Actually, that was a crazy time, too. There's a guy who who we were at the art cinema in Hartford, Connecticut, an adult theater, and this guy comes over and she's fooling around, and there's a spotlight right in the middle of the place, and she's sitting there, and dudes are coming over and she's having fun. And the last guy who she blew ended up leaving the same time we did. And I'm like, okay, this is a little weird. So I walk to the car and I open up the passenger door and I put her in. I close the door, we drive off, and she's like, I think he's following us. I'm like, there's no way he's following us. Well, we got a hotel room down there. So as we drive, she's like, No, he's behind us. So we get to the parking lot, I park. Sure enough, he drives behind us. I'm like, Oh, I'm gonna have to kill someone. This is no good. So we go in and we we get our room and we're standing in line, and he comes in like right behind her. They wanted like my license plate number, I didn't have it, so she was gonna go back out and get it. So she went towards the door to go get my license plate, and then he turned around to walk towards the door. So now I start going towards him, like, like, like why are you following her outside? But he stops and turns around and looks at like, you know, the vacation things that you can do, the little pamphlets and stuff. I'm like, okay, this is weird. So we get the room and we go upstairs, and we have to walk up one flight of stairs, and I come out the door, and he ends up doing something at the counter and then follows us up the stairs as well. So as soon as he opens that door, I slam the door behind him and I push him up against the wall. And I'm like, what's your fucking problem? He's like, dude, I swear to God, this is a coincidence. This isn't what it looks like. If I was you, I would have called the cops already. He's like, I'm not trying to sleep with her. And he was freaking out because of course I got him pinned up against the wall. Um so, of course, being the douche that I am, I'm like, So you're saying she's not good enough to rape? Are you kidding me? What's wrong with you? He's like, What? What? Oh my god. I'm like, I'm joking. He ended up actually being in the room across from us, which is crazy. So we left, we got something to eat, we came back. He was coming out of his room to find something to eat. We talked a little bit. He was a super cool guy, no big deal. He went, got something to eat, came back. And then someone had the bright idea. Maybe I should go across the room, the hallway, naked, and knock on his door with a condom to see if he wants to fuck. So she did. So now he comes back after eating, and she's like knocking out his door totally naked in this hotel with a condom she's holding up at the little peephole, like, hey, do you want to fuck? So she went in there for a little bit. Um, and like he his mind was just blown. Like it was just crazy coincidence all around. And that's a story as a guy like who do you tell? I was hanging out at an adult theater. You know, I got my dick sucked by what ended up being a porn star. And then I happened to be across the hallway. I followed them back, and then she just showed up naked at my door to fuck. Like that situation was.

SPEAKER_04 37:38

No one's gonna believe him.

SPEAKER_01 37:39

No, at all. No, you can't tell that story. Especially his wife. I'm sure she wouldn't be happy with it. So he was there for business. I know Kim.

SPEAKER_04 37:47

Let's hope that she was aware. Goodness.

SPEAKER_02 37:49

So, um, Lexi, you want to take that one?

SPEAKER_04 37:51

Yeah. So uh if you guys had to choose one item off the cuckold menu that best ref represents your relationship today, what would it be? And has that answer changed over the years?

SPEAKER_03 38:01

Well, like the threesome thing?

SPEAKER_01 38:03

We used to be more like humiliation now.

SPEAKER_03 38:06

Yeah. Sorry, I'm like, I do the worst interviews ever, I swear it feels like I do. No, you're fine. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_01 38:21

So we're probably more into humiliation now than we were before. Like I think on the menu there's like threesomes and stuff, something a little bit more vanilla, which is probably where we kind of started at the beginning. And now it's just her playing alone. Um a lot more humiliation now. That seems to be what I'm doing.

SPEAKER_03 38:37

A lot more. We didn't start out with like doing humiliation at all. I was I was terrified to like be mean to him in the beginning of the cuck stuff.

SPEAKER_01 38:47

Why? You're so good at it.

SPEAKER_03 38:48

I'm so good at it. I'm like really, really good at it. But I was terrified to like call him names or tell him he had a little dick. Sorry.

SPEAKER_02 38:59

Thank you. Yeah, well, it's so nice. No, Roxy and Lexi look like two super like if you met him in like at the grocery store, you would think, oh, they're so nice and sweet.

SPEAKER_04 39:10

And I'm such innocent little things.

SPEAKER_02 39:12

Just by knowing what comes out of Lexi's mouths when she's like teasing me. Like I can only imagine Roxy White would you say it's I mean, Lexi, do you have a hard time too? Like being mean or that kind of stuff, or is it easy now?

SPEAKER_04 39:25

I mean, it's definitely a lot easier. It's um it's become much easier. But yeah, I know. At first it's it's about it's a tightrope walk. You know, you're trying to figure out what you can get away with, what he wants, what's gonna be too much for him. It's it's uh a little nerve-wracking because you're like, okay, I know he wants me to be mean, but I don't want to be too mean. How do I know? Right. So you just gotta feel it out.

SPEAKER_03 39:50

How mean do you want me to be? Usually after like a play session, if I'm like really mean, we finish. And I'm like, I didn't mean any of that. Like it's okay.

SPEAKER_01 39:59

Like Well, that's where the aftercare comes from.

SPEAKER_02 40:03

Yeah, you know, I I that's really so tell me about the aftercare because that's um I love that you just said that, Roxy. The like after the scene's done, you kind of reassure Ben. So what does the after aftercare look like for y'all?

SPEAKER_03 40:16

It's a lot of me being like, I I didn't mean the things that I said. I love you. Like, if it was like really intense, I'll like hold him, make sure he's okay, make sure he's feeling okay. Um, but yeah, definitely big on the aftercare.

SPEAKER_02 40:32

Yeah. I I mean, and I can just tell from looking at you two how much you love each other. And that's the that's the thing about that I think a lot of people miss about our our relationship dynamic is we are deeply in love. I I mean, we care about each other's well-being very, very much.

SPEAKER_05 40:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 40:47

And so, I mean, I know Lexi doesn't want to see me hurt. Um, you know, and and she's just the right amount. Just the right amount of hurt. She always is does what you do, Roxy. You know, she'll check in afterwards and all that stuff. And I think that's critical, like the holding and all that stuff. Like that, that that is important because it does, you know, it it's a scene, it's a game, but it can take a toll on you. Um it can take a take a toll on you. Because your body doesn't know, right? Like your, not to get too science-y, but your amygdala doesn't know that you're not actually under threat, right? Like your brain doesn't know. Your lizard brain thinks that this is real. Um, and so a lot of times the the the spouse, the partner has to kind of shake you back into like, nope, that this was pretend it was a game. Like, we're okay. I'm not going anywhere. And and I think that's important for for cucks to hear and and for those in the dynamic to hear is that what's going on in the cuck brain is yes, we like it, but remember our brain is a human brain. So a lot of times it doesn't, it can't tell the difference between real threat and not real threat. It doesn't that your brain doesn't know if you're in an office building or if you're being chased by a lion. A threat is a threat.

unknown 41:52

Right.

SPEAKER_01 41:53

Well, and I I think cuckled in is very mentally like a mental BDSM. Like it's the same, it's it's just the mental version of what you would physically have to do aftercare for as well. Like if I got tied up in and beaten, spanked, paddled, there'd be aftercare for that. You're gonna have to do the same thing for for like the mental piece of it too. That's that's really what the aftercare is about, bringing back the bring you back to center, calm you down to your point. Like your brain doesn't understand, you know, that I'm not being chased by a lie and everything's okay. Like so I I I think you can't underestimate the mental impact of this type of play in a relationship and on a person.

SPEAKER_02 42:39

A hundred percent. Do you now you all are doing so much work on normalizing cock holding? Where do you think it's gonna be in 10 years? Do you think that do you think it's gonna be in the same place? Do you think it's gonna be more normalized? I know it's becoming more popular. I mean, l lifestyle dynamics are becoming more popular in general, but wh where do you see it going in the future?

SPEAKER_03 43:00

We're hoping to normalize it, more people to understand it, but we need to normalize it more in the lifestyle first. Um in ten years. I mean, God, who knows where we'll be.

SPEAKER_01 43:14

I think you a lot of it a lot of it will depend on where society goes. Like if we become more conservative, then you're not gonna see it. So be more underground. And again, I think to Roxy's point, if we could just normalize it within the lifestyle itself, that this is just one segment of the lifestyle, it's okay to do that. We would be doing really well. I don't think in ten years it'll become too mainstream, but I mean, again, it's really more about don't kink shame. It's not just cuckled and just normalize whatever you want to do. Like as long as it's not unethical and you're not hurting anyone, it's not illegal. Like you should be allowed to do it without people looking down on you for it. So if we could just head down that path, I think we'd be doing pretty good.

SPEAKER_04 43:58

Well, and I feel like it's becoming more not mainstream, but it's becoming more More and more talked about. There's more people coming forward, more people are discovering it. Um, more more people are talking about it than ever before, by far. And it's it's you know, it's starting to gain some traction.

SPEAKER_01 44:17

And you've seen a lot more poly relationships too. Yes. Everyone, these kids these days, and they're poly relationships. Like you see a lot of that, and I think that helps open up um you know, society or these groups of people as a whole to like alternative lifestyles and alternative ways to to live. I have a friend who just got divorced. He's trying to get back into the scene as he goes around. He's like in his 40s now. He's like, like, everyone's poly now. Like he's like, I don't know how to have relationships anymore. Like everyone has multiple relationships. So watching him navigate that makes me very happy that I'm married. And I don't have to try to do that, but there's a lot of that going on out there, and I think that helps kind of bring everything to the forefront. This is just one of many different things or different ways people decided to have their relationship, and it's okay. So maybe maybe them damn kids will, you know, yeah, open things up a little bit more for the rest of us.

SPEAKER_02 45:13

If Gen Z starts having sex, I mean that that that's that's the word on the street is that they're they're face down in their screens, and and there's a lot less of that that you know going on, a lot less physical activity.

SPEAKER_01 45:23

Well, we see that too. Like, even trying to find like bulls and stuff, we'll have like 19-year-old kids hit us up and be like, I'll be your bull.

SPEAKER_04 45:34

Go play some play with your games. But but like looking at you, G.I.

SPEAKER_01 45:38

Joe's looking at a lot of like younger kids, to your point, they're always like in their phones and stuff. So having those interactions, just trying to, you know, figure out how to talk to people and have relationships seems to be a struggle. Like I a lot of places that we've gone to, like again, adult theaters and stuff, occasionally someone who who's 18 or 19 might show up and like they're just flabbergasted by what's going on and they run like right out. But like you never see anyone like that age really go out there to try to explore. And I I don't know if it's because of the way technology is now that they're just focused on that's how we communicate is through, you know, Telegram and on FetLife and stuff, and then no one actually shows up to things. I mean, I we throw parties like crazy and everyone RSVPs, and then no one ever shows up. Like that's always one of the biggest problems that we run into.

SPEAKER_04 46:28

So um, so if if if every listener can leave this episode remembering just like one thing about cuck holding, what would you want that message to be?

SPEAKER_03 46:42

I want them to know that cucks are an amazing breed of men. Um they're selfless, open, honest about their feelings, um and they're way more mature than most men out there. I just want everyone to know how amazing cucks are. I agree completely. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 47:05

Thank you. That's actually really nice. Thanks, Roxy.

SPEAKER_03 47:08

You're welcome. You're an amazing breed of men.

SPEAKER_02 47:13

Thanks. Ben, anything from you, anything that you you want to leave uh people, you know, thinking about or or a key takeaway?

SPEAKER_01 47:21

Just don't shame people for what they're into. Like you especially don't shame people for things you don't understand. Just because you know, what's normal to you is not normal to someone else. Like I can assure you that what I would not think twice about in my life, someone else would be absolutely appalled that I'm I'm doing like this weekend. We're gonna go back to a new river out in Vermont. Um Roxy may or may not play with a couple of guys who are there. That's just a normal Saturday for me. You know, that's my normal. So don't be too judgy about what other people's normals are because your normal isn't normal to me. So, you know, let's just be open and let everyone enjoy life the way that they want to.

SPEAKER_04 48:06

Well said.

SPEAKER_02 48:07

Damn right. So uh we really appreciate you having on. Uh having hey, we really, really appreciate you being on. Where can folks find you?

SPEAKER_03 48:17

They can find us at roxydover.com. And you will find all of our links to all of our websites, all of our um normalized cuck holding stuff. It's all all on that.

SPEAKER_01 48:29

The Twitter, LoyalFans, many vids, blue sky, all of it is all connected to roxydover.com. So just remember that.

SPEAKER_05 48:36

You're good to go.

SPEAKER_02 48:37

Yeah. And Roxydover.com is an awesome website, folks. Go check it out. And and you'll see the literal cuck cuck old menu that we've been talking about, the cuck spectrum. There is a lot of good shit on there. Like go on there and just, you know, enjoy researching this stuff, learn about it. There was stuff on that menu that I had never seen before. Um, so I feel like I'm the more the more we do this podcast, the more I'm learning from different couples and and all that stuff and all the research we have to do. It's been really fascinating. So definitely go to roxydover.com.

SPEAKER_04 49:11

We do have one listener question that came in from our blue sky. They said, Would both of you be happy if Lexi fell in love with another man and divided her time equally between her husband and staying at her boyfriend's house, also including going on week or fortnight-long vacations with her boyfriend. I would like to hear both Lexi and Chris answer, please.

SPEAKER_02 49:32

I'm just impressed that they use the word fortnight and say that. Does this come from England? I think it came from a guy who is in Ireland, if I remember correctly. I at least I think that the handle is something about an Irish guy. But um we're gonna have you two weigh in on this one too. Um Lexi and I will take it first. So, I mean, Lexi, what's your point of view on if you fell in love with a guy and going on a weekend trip or something like that? What are your thoughts?

SPEAKER_04 49:58

So, weekend trips, yes. I'm I'm down for that. You know, um I love exploring, I love traveling, I love camping, I love, you know, the beach, I love weekend trips. I don't think I could really see myself falling in love with someone else. I just I don't I don't think I see that as likely at all. And even in the realm of possibility, it just doesn't seem like something I would do. Um and you know, I even if I did, I I would not divide my time equally. Um the majority of my time would would be with Chris.

SPEAKER_02 50:38

I I um I mean I feel like falling in love with somebody else that that falls more into like that poly space that we were just talking about. But if she were to have feelings for a guy, you know, fall in love with him, like I guess it wouldn't bother me that much. Uh I mean, I it would be maybe a little bit harder to take, um, just knowing that there's an emotional connection there. I just don't think logistically she could, you know, spend equal amount of time. Now, now she you did get very, very close to going and and spending a week with a guy on a vacation um that earlier this summer. And like I I had signed off on at first, I was like, whoa, that is way too long. And uh, we had compromised and and gotten it to where we agreed on a week and then it just it fell apart. But so I'm open to it. Like I don't mind her spending time with other guys and going, especially we've said this multiple times, but if it's something that I really don't want to do, like going camping or some shit like that, that I just have zero interest in doing, um, fine, go go have a weekend camping and I will go, you know, watch sports or just hang out and rest. I just I just have zero interest in doing that. It's almost a favor to me. But what do you think, Ben and Roxy? Like, how would you feel if, you know, Ben, how would you feel if Roxy fell in love with somebody? Roxy, would you ever do that?

SPEAKER_03 51:54

I don't see myself ever falling in love um with anyone else. Definitely maybe catching some feelings more than friend feelings. Um But I don't I don't catch feelings easily. Um so I don't see myself going down the path of falling in love with another guy. And if I did, I probably would nip it in the is it bud? Nip it in the bud um and probably stop communication because I don't I don't want to go down that path. I don't want to split my time up from him um or take time away from him. Weekends away, I could totally do a weekend. I couldn't do a week. That's impressive. Um but I could do a weekend away with a guy. But definitely not fall in love.

SPEAKER_01 52:47

You could go away for a weekend.

SPEAKER_03 52:49

Yeah, I know you're okay with me going away for a weekend.

SPEAKER_01 52:52

For me, um it's hard to say unless you're actually in the situation, it'd have to be a very special person. Like I wouldn't rule it out simply because we're not in that situation. We have had like girlfriends before. Like had a little thruple going on a couple times. So I wouldn't rule it out. I don't necessarily like the idea. For me, again, not to judge anyone, I'm not open to like a poly relationship because I want to be someone's number one. And I want someone to be my number one. And I I feel like that's what I know I need. I need to be someone's priority. I have to be, I want to be someone's, I want to be important to someone to that level. Um, so maybe if there's like a boyfriend on the side or something, it'd be okay. But again, logistically, like that's a nightmare. Like, when are you gonna spend time there and you've got work in a bazillion other things? When when would you even have time for it? But again, if it was the right person, maybe. But for me, my initial response would be like, I'm not, I'm not into that that piece of it. I want to be her husband and be number one to her.

SPEAKER_05 53:59

So yeah, that that makes sense.

SPEAKER_02 54:03

I think that makes a lot of sense. I guess for me, it's a little bit more just like I I worry that you know, I I I I I encourage Lexi to go out and have fun and all that stuff. And if she catches feelings, like I can't be pissed off at her about that. Like I guess that that that's my my biggest concern is I just don't want to be the guy to be like, no, you can't do this, and I'm the one who told you to do it.

SPEAKER_01 54:26

So well that's part of the the cuck thing. Like you want to play with that fire, like you want to go in, like you don't know what's gonna happen. You get off on that thought. So then if it happens, yeah, you can't be the asshole who's like, oh no, not now. Like now it's too real. I pushed for this and now it's here. And like you're gonna have to kind of let it develop and see what happens.

SPEAKER_04 54:47

But exactly.

SPEAKER_02 54:49

I think communication is key. But Ben and Roxy, thank you so much for joining us today. I really appreciate everything you're doing to educate people and create a more accepting conversation around cuck holding. It's it's so important. Whether someone agrees with this lifestyle or not, I think we can all agree that healthy relationships are built on honesty, communication, consent, and trust. And that's exactly what today's conversation was about. And this goes back to what I was saying. I think vanilla couples can learn a lot from us. And to everybody listening, thank you so much for spending part of your day with us. If you enjoyed this episode, please follow the podcast, leave us a five-star review, and share it with somebody who think might enjoy the conversation. Until next time, have some naughty fun together. Lexi, you want to say bye to everybody?

SPEAKER_04 55:30

Bye, guys.