Episode Six: A Two-Spirit Journey to Freedom, Knowledge, and Change with Kurt Blind

Episode Six: A Two-Spirit Journey to Freedom, Knowledge, and Change with Kurt Blind

Episode Six of Stolen Voices features a powerful and personal conversation with Kurt Blind. Drawing from lived experience, Kurt speaks openly about surviving residential school, addiction, and his journey toward healing through culture, ceremony, community, and connection to the land. Through their work at the Calgary Drop-In and Rehabilitation Centre as a First Nations, Inuit, and Métis Cultural Liaison, Kurt shares firsthand insight into the vulnerabilities that place Indigenous women, girls, and Two-Spirit peoples at greater risk of exploitation and human trafficking, particularly within urban centers and unhoused communities.

This episode explores the intersection of colonial systems, poverty, racism, displacement, addiction, and identity, while also shining light on the importance of culturally safe spaces, Indigenous-led healing, land-based teachings, language revitalization, and community connection. Kurt speaks candidly about the ongoing impacts of systemic discrimination, the lack of safe supports for Two-Spirit and queer Indigenous peoples, and the urgent need for prevention rooted in empathy, education, and Indigenous ways of knowing.

At the heart of this conversation is hope. Kurt shares powerful reflections on ancestral memory, resilience, and the responsibility we all carry to create safer communities for future generations. Through humour, honesty, compassion, and wisdom, this episode reminds listeners that healing is possible; that our spirits remember who we are, and that Indigenous voices, teachings, and lived experiences are essential in the fight against human trafficking and violence.

This is a grounding, emotional, and inspiring conversation about survival, accountability, identity, and reclaiming Indigenous strength in a world that too often tries to erase it.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:01

Welcome back to Stolen Voices, the fight against human trafficking in First Nations communities, a podcast dedicated to amplifying truth, centering Indigenous voices, and confronting the realities of human trafficking. I'm your host, Nicole Robertson. This podcast exists because our people deserve to hear the truth about how human trafficking impacts First Nations communities. And because we have leaders, survivors, advocates, and frontline workers who refuse to let the silence enable violence. Across these episodes, we center the voices of those doing the real work, community educators, survivors, protectors, knowledge holders, elders, and those who are strengthening systems where systems once failed us. On this episode, we're honored to sit down with Kurt Blind, a Nihiliao Plains Creed from George Gordon First Nation in Treaty No. 4 Territory, who's been welcomed by the Blackfoot Confederacy with the given name Igatopy, meaning courageous person, by Elder Mixica, Clarence Wolfleg, Sr. of the Sacred Horn Society. Kurt is a two-spirit healer who walks the red road, supporting others on their wellness journeys through their work at the Calvary Drop-in and rehabilitation center. Their approach is deeply rooted in traditional knowledge and land-based teachings, guided by elders and knowledge keepers from the Blackfoot Confederacy, the Plains Cree, Dene, Metis, and Stony Nakota Nations. Kurt is an academic, currently engaged in graduate studies focused on Blackfoot approaches to wellness. He's also a public speaker who courageously shares their lived experiences, including their time in George Gordon Indian Residential School. Their journey encompasses past addiction and the ongoing path toward healing through culture, identity, and to the land. Beyond healing and advocacy work, Kurt enjoys art and fashion, collaborating with indigenous designers and walking in major showcases in Vancouver through the Indigenous Fashion Week and the Southwestern Association for Indian Arts Fashion Show in Santa Fe. This will be a powerful and grounding conversation, and we're grateful you're here to share, Kurt. Hi, hi, Nina Naskoman, and welcome.

SPEAKER_00 2:40

Very grateful to be here. Thank you, my friend, and thank you, Gregory, for inviting me to speak today. I'm very honored to come here and share experience and voice to this very important topic.

SPEAKER_01 2:52

We'll start off with um how did you first get involved in community service in what you're doing?

SPEAKER_00 2:59

So this goes back to, you know, uh for those who don't know, uh a little background there is that I I uh I lived in that phenomenon of addiction for decades, 35 years, uh beginning at 15 um and closing out at the age of 50, uh, just before my 50th birthday. And then during that process, I started uh seeking out answers to these questions that I had about why um why were we overrepresented? Why were our people overrepresented in justice and missing and murdered in in an addiction in and being unhoused, all these negatives, right? Why were we living in this deficit? Why what could have happened? And I thought, well, I got to get an education. And so I went to um uh through a series of just uh beautiful manifestations and things that I can't explain. I was uh welcomed and uh accepted into the Bow Valley College Addiction Studies program in 2021. Um and they had um that that addiction studies program at the time had Aboriginal focus on it. Um and so uh that's where I was gonna seek my answers. I had to find out through education. And so through that process of education, there were practicums, and there was also um, I guess like a summer student position that uh 3D7 Community Futures was co-funding along with Sunrise Healing Lodge. And so that was my first introduction into um this recovery model, into this um supporting others. And so I went over there and I was, what was I? I think I was the oldest summer student ever, I think at 53 years old. Um and so that was my first experience. That's how I first got into it. I was curious about this model. How were they supporting Indigenous people? And as a person in recovery who's never gone to treatment but white-knuckled it, I was looking for those different ways of how we were supporting. I was intrigued by the 12-step model. I I wouldn't call myself a 12-step person. I use a different model. But I use aspects of all these things, and so that was my first um uh foray into this type of role, these roles and responsibilities. Um through that practicum process, that first year of my practicum, which was 20 the fall of 2022, I was um I had a friend named Hannah Woodward, and um she was overseeing a program called Be the Change, which is an outreach program, Boots on the ground, right? One of those people, one of those groups with the wagons, meeting our people. It's just right down from the DI now. And so we would go around, and that was my first time going out, looking in bushes, making connections, giving out sandwiches, harm reduction supplies. And that was very eye-opening. It was something that was really part of um opening my eyes and my heart to others, but also it also reminded me of my own street days about how you approach and how you don't approach. So it was a very learning experience and a remembrance of going back into that time. Uh for me uh uh to put a more um spiritual spin on it, um I I truly believe uh through prayer and through questions and through purpose and by design from creator that uh this was my calling. Um and that I was called to this work. Um so I consider it like my name, courageous person, I consider that a role and responsibility. I consider this a role and responsibility and wherever I was supposed to go. Um and and so it was through that program and then through those experiences that I really started forming about how I was kind of this path was kind of opening up. Um the education really opened up my eyes, uh, not only with uh women in gender studies, which talks a lot about intersectionality, but also uh historical and current practices that um are high barriers to success, um uh to positive outcomes. And so it was it was this combination of all these things. I often call it a Rubik's cube that's spinning on top of my head, and everything has its place, and it's just non-stop. So if you just imagine a puzzle, a little piece comes in. And so that's how it formed my how it forms my current purpose, my current state, and how I carry that information alongside things that have been opened, these these pathways that have that have been offered to me. And so um, yeah, I can see that's that's that's I guess a long way of answering.

SPEAKER_01 8:27

And then, of course, you're working in this area, and and it is a responsibility, and this show is definitely responsibility, and I see it as such as well. And so during your time working, you know, um, and understanding how, you know, our people obviously um have had so much to deal with um in terms of some of the um, and it's over you as a colonization of this country, what's occurred, you know, how does your work now intersect with human trafficking and the crisis that's currently happening um in First Nation communities, whether it be on reserve or in the urban you know, centers. Um have you have you come into that um in some of the work or where or however you want to share?

SPEAKER_00 9:19

So my current role and responsibility is um as the First Nation Inuit and Metis Culture Liaison for the Calgary Drop-in center. Um, it is a new uh grassroots role. We're developing this role, we're we're we're creating the Indigenous framework. But my first roles were in the recovery part of the building, and then I went into complex care. And so complex care was once again right in the right in the thick of it, creating those relationships, um, making those attempts at building trust. And so shelters often are places where predators, predatory behavior uh becomes the norm. You know, it's not always, but it certainly is there. And so when we're looking statistically at numbers, right, we're looking at how how often a woman enters shelter compared to our male counterparts, the numbers are lower, right? And that could be for a variety of reasons, including this vulnerability, this exposure to these predators, right? One of the things that um I I I discovered, you know, when we walk along the river when we lock up, when we see encampments, one of the things that I that I that I learned was that some of those in those camps along the river is that those are pockets for people to come in um for trafficked women, traffic girls are women in those tents. And so someone will come, they'll use that, and they'll get the money. And so, you know, this is something maybe a lot of people don't know. I just certainly didn't know it. Um, but that's why when people, when when when people say, what it's so cruel when you're taking down those tents, when you're taking, you know, when you're doing this, and these tents also exist sometimes in front of the shelter because when it's overwhelmed, it's overwhelmed. But there's always like a we'll call it a sweep, but the sweeps are done with social workers, with emergency care workers, with mental health and addictions professionals like myself. So we're not just taking those that are actually just looking for another form of shelter, but also looking to make sure that young women or boys or two spirits are not being trafficked in those places. What's happening in, I'm not saying all of them. Sometimes encampment is a better option, but there's certainly, I talk about that predatory behavior, and that there's always somebody, and women are always a commodity.

SPEAKER_01 11:56

Yes. And and the times we live in with technology and how things are going. What do you think, you know, if people are listening, uh, when they're listening to this podcast, what's missing or the misunderstanding about, say, human trafficking uh with our indigenous peoples that be women, girls, and two-spirited peoples?

SPEAKER_00 12:17

Well, it's a systemic, it's a societal, it's a societal thing of how people view us and view our women. Let's take a look at cartoons. Let's take a look at how we've been represented in the past as caricatures. We've been, you know, everything from mascots to cartoons. Let's take a look at uh Pocahontas, this Disney cartoon. I don't think you can get that anymore because I think the community has asked for this very harmful uh uh kids' movie to be removed, because that's how they see us. They see us not only as historical, meaning that we are something from the past, not something from the present, but that she was a willing participant in this arrangement. We know that this is the most famous missing and murdered indigenous woman, but she certainly wasn't the first, um, you know, since contact, since they came, and how they they didn't even think of us as human. And so this still this is still occurring. So when we're looking at cartoons, caricatures, even from our own voices, you know, when let's take a look at that that that Skodin video, that was a very popular meme uh from that gentleman. If you ever get an opportunity to see that that documentary, see it. This is a good example of how we are caricatured um as people. So people don't see us as living rings, they see us as like a dancing as they're dancing with wolves characters. They see us as this, they want to romanticize this. They would rather not see the the the contributions that uh policies and and that's historical and that's current, and how that contributes to that.

SPEAKER_01 14:01

With the colonial systems that continue to create uh where um trafficking can happen, you mentioned you know the tents and some of the sweeps that they do, that it has to go into another area, you know, of wherever they can uh find, you know, uh women, girls, and and two-spirit peoples from our communities, you know. Um, from your perspective, um what do you think could definitely help in changing that uh narrative, some of the prevention, looking at ways of trying to help um this whole thing that's happening and happening in what I would say a crisis. We're really at a crisis place right now in terms of you know how many, and it's happening in urban centers, in places that we wouldn't even think like in suburbs, to people that are online playing games, people that are getting lured. Um, you know, there's many, many different ways to get into human trafficking. And I always think, you know, when I see uh, for instance, those um containers when I was in Vancouver recently, you know, and all those containers that are piled up, I I was thinking if you're to open half of those, you would find people in there. Oh, and then our women in Thunder Bay that were went missing and the ships that they went off and never to be found again, you know, and then in in Saskatchewan, you know, that it's just it goes on and on and on, you know. So how do you think that, you know, from your perspective, where we can um continue to better um to inform and to do some prevention around it?

SPEAKER_00 15:59

It's a very broad question. It's a big question, and I'm going to try to get to a point. I think what we're doing in schools, and I hope that this maintains that children are learning empathy at a young age, not only about the beauty of our culture, but that we are people. Whatever we say, when we say Nehiha, when we say uh Nitsupi, all those people, all those words mean person. That's a real person. And so this education piece, and so I have hope for this, but I also have hope for our people to be able to take that ancestral memory, that ancestral knowledge in these schools where they're learning land-based learning, where they're learning from elders and knowledge keepers, something you and I didn't have that opportunity because well, we know why. Um but um I think that's a good start now dismantling. And people are so scared of that word, decolonizing, and what that means. And it's just too big of a word, and they come up with these biases like hey, check your biases, make a dialogue, find someone safe that you feel safe talking to, and have that described to you, you know. Uh, they get scared of land back, they don't understand that, they don't understand the interpretation, they don't understand these treaties. Uh, treaties are a very, very hot topic right now. And so, but we also have to look at our courtrooms. How are courtrooms and justice um um uh uh are our barriers, high barriers to to to success, to just living a life, right? Well how do we look at health? How do we look at health services? Many people will not go to a cop or go to a health services or to education or anywhere for fear. It is a historical based embedded fear that to go into those places because we will be treated less than. So, how do they make those welcoming? I know we have indigenous courts, we have these things, but we need to wrap that up. We need to women and two spirits and men have to feel comfortable and safe going where they are. When we've been historically and ongoing targeted by these systems, then why would they? This is what's gonna contribute to not only self-esteem, but to finding safety, to finding someone to talk to. And this goes back to our communities too. We have to decolonize our spirits and our minds so we can create safe spaces that maybe weren't afforded to the generations before us, to the to the generation we're currently in. We want our kids to be able to come here. We have to find and consider better ways than child and family services. We have to start there. How do we decolonize this process? How do we and the simple uh the the matter of the fact is there's just not enough of skilled or knowledgeable um persons to go out and share that? Because once someone either graduates from post-secondary and goes out to land-based learning or into a healer role, it's not enough considering the vast people who are at risk on reserves and in our in our in our cities, you know, and so we need to make education more accessible so we can get more skilled workers, so we can share this knowledge, so we can enter places like the Calgary Drop and Center, places that are saying, hey, we're looking to uh open this door for you, but how can we do it in a culturally safe way? We need to be able to feel safe in those spaces, and we haven't always, because a lot of places they'll track boxes, right? And then it won't be culturally safe. How we how we see decent work will differ from someone else's experience. You know, there's a lot of research out there, there's a lot of voices and lived experiences, but when we try to assert our voices, we're the bad guy. Because historically we're the bad guy, right? So how dare we, how dare we talk up. So I kind of got off top there. But this is how we can create to dish to to reduce trafficking, is to further your education, check your biases, you know. Look at what um this this current government has done now. They're they're they're saying that lawyers no longer have to take um what people would call a cultural safety course, you know, on how and we're working with First Nations people. That's a target. That was done intentionally. So, you know, when when your own government is using you as a pawn and and and uh a political uh talking point, you know, and making us once again the bad guys, we have to start somewhere all over all these systems, and so there's a lot of good places, there's a lot of indigenous-led organizations, but those are and those colonial institutions, they're having a tough time beyond land acknowledgements to really put in the work. What does decolonizing mean? When you say you're an ally, what does that mean? And so create conditions. You said it right there. How do we create these conditions? Well, we have to first disseminate the conditions that allow this to happen to our people. This is trafficking. You know, um, and it and it and it this goes especially, and it's gonna be an unpopular thing to say. This especially has to happen on our reserves. And I See beautiful work going on. Even in my home nation, I get these these things, and I'm going, My God, they're doing it. They're doing this work. They're not only starting with the youth, they're coming to people who are older and offering these places to sit and learn, but in our way, which is to visit and to create dialogue, not through classroom, not through this, but offering this, and that's coming to the table with clean hands. Come to the table with clean hands. But this comes from our nations as well, and from these colonized institutions. Um and so there I've said it.

SPEAKER_01 22:39

Yes. My uh question to you a lot of people, when we think about, you know, MMI W G, meaning murdered and missing indigenous women and girls, uh, and two spirit, um, you know, uh, of course, our our women are at the top of that list and and girls, but how has it impacted uh our two-spirit kin that um are trafficked and are, you know, they just there isn't that bigger understanding, I think, in mainstream media. And what does that look like, you know, um for those that are listening?

SPEAKER_00 23:19

And so we talked a little bit about intersectionality. If for any listener that isn't out there, I asked you to go out and look at that. And so there's different levels, right? And they can they crisscross on vulnerability. And so two spears, trans and digiqueers, it's become we have we have society has backtracked. We're going back to the 80s where we were once again the villain. We're going back to these Euro-centered ideals. And so when we're talking about safety again, um, where are these places? Uh, from my own experience when I was um, you know, um on the streets and doing that, where I found the safety was with other two spirits, with other indigenous. That's where I found my first community of safety because of the lateral violence, not only from our community, but from the violence that we got from the urban people chasing us, right? And so and so whenever we were, whenever the cops were involved, they didn't, there was there was no care. And so we're talking once again, not historically, but currently, we are made to feel like we don't matter. So why would we go and try to talk to a pop when when we're seeing on the air and through the news wave and through social media that we are not worthy? Think of that young cur that young person out there, right? And then so we're talking about trafficking, right? And so social media is a big way. We have all these apps, and we have these predators who know exactly how to do it. It has given them new access. And bless those who are on the anti-trafficking list, they have their work cut out for them. It is almost an impossible job when you're trying to find when you're trying to um put a stop to this or or try to expose it. Um, but also there's that the other part of it is that with social media, we forget the next day. It be it's a cause de jour, right? It's the it's the it's the cause of the day, and then it goes away. You become desensitized to this information. And so we're back in that place now where the trans, our trans community, our are two spirits for a lack of understanding and a lack of willingness to even understand, creating perfect storms for us to find purpose or being or self. And then we become highly vulnerable. You know, there's really not a place a lot of places, safe places in recovery centers, in shelters, in, you know, we don't have, we don't have um safe houses for for queer people. We don't have recovery-focused programs for queer people or for tra we don't have, those don't exist yet. So we're that that signals, right? That signals to a young person who is at the highest risk. There's nothing for me. Who am I gonna tell? We're back to that now. Where can I feel safe? I don't feel safe here at home. I left home or I was pushed out of home. I can't say this to this person because of this high, uh, highly volatile political landscape who uh are using uh queer and trans people as political pawns and diversion politics. And so, right from the top, right down to Joe Blow, they're being vilified. And in your heart, when you're told enough times that you're not worthy, that's what you begin to believe. It makes you highly vulnerable to seeking out intimacy, contact. And that's how it starts, right? That's how it starts, and that's how we know these predators, these pimps, these online people, they know exactly what they're doing. Hey, we see you, we welcome you, but for the negative, right? And by that time it's too late, you're in. And this goes for women as well, right? Women and girls. There are people that have a very dark space in their spirit that prey upon this. Um the people.

SPEAKER_01 27:48

I agree with you. It's definitely um our people are are vulnerable, our women, our girls in two spirit, and you're right, um, there's much more of a um uh huge tidal wave of uh people that are making money um and continually um, you know, it's these we've just seen it with the Epstein files and what that means, you know, in terms of just trying to put that under the carpet. Things need to change, and they do change by talking about them and also action. I always say behind words, you need to back that up with looking at, you know, systematically, um, and looking at ways of how do we then create, you know, to better protect our people. Like if you were to look at ways of trying to do that in in what you're doing, I think it's beautiful that you uh mentioned, you know, land base, uh language and better uh being like a better future ancestor. And essentially give you know um our listeners hope of because we have gone down that dark path. Well, let's look at some of the solutions, let's look at the light, let's look at ways of how do we uphold, you know, given our where we've been, um, and the platform uh of this, you know, some of the the light work that we're doing.

SPEAKER_00 29:22

You know, um, well, for me, I can speak from from my own experience, but what I'm also seeing is this common thread in community is how we view ourselves. You know, I'm I'm a big believer in in in ancestral memory. And that goes from something as simple as a drum. So if let's say we're talking to someone and they've been 60 scoop or removed from their homes or removed from their lands, told they weren't enough all their life, and I meet them. There's something that wakes that up that they can't explain. And that's a good starting point. That was a good starting point for me for taking pride in in once again. Um, I remember my grandmother, my cook and Barbara, a very long time ago, said, You're an Indian, you know, be proud of that. And at that time, I didn't know what to make of that because I was coming out of residential school. The impacts of that were to make me feel like I something I shouldn't be proud of, um, and then going into an urban setting. And so, but that those words, they still come back to me. And I'm like, I'm at a point now where I can say, now I understand what you meant. No, I know. And so her words, they speak to me still. She's long, uh, she she left in the spirit world many years ago, but I I carry her with me and I carry them when I come into spaces like this to share. I call upon those ancestors and being comfortable with saying like Tanse, being comfortable with saying okay, and responding without being shy about it, because that was ingrained in you. So those simp, the the steps are very simple because your body remembers, your spirit remembers. You're you're, you know, um, when we're talking about land, one of the things I love to talk about, and and and particularly with people in recovery or people who are suffering with any sort of disorders. Um, I talk about um, I ask them to share something that uh where where's the place that brings you happiness and peace? And and this goes beyond being indigenous. It goes beyond uh, you know, to our non-Indigenous neighbors. Nine out of ten people are gonna name something that has occurred in nature. I was walking on the snow on this on a on the night, on a night, and the snow was glistening and the moon was shining. That connection from moon to that, to the crunch of the snow, to that, that's that's that's what I call ancestral memory. Sitting by a river. We can't explain that. That is something our our spirit remembers, that's soothing, that sound, that memory. And but we're not puzzled by it, but we just know we're comforted by it, you know, on so many different levels. The drum, the heartbeat. Um, and then kind of deepening your own, you know, for those who are who are suffering, but even those who are trying to find out, because those who were taken away, right, um, are trying to find out as well. They're also highly at risk for negative outcomes, stress, stress-induced deaths. But when we're talking about missing and murdered, when we're talking about trying to build capital, I guess, through land-based healing, through land-based teaching, through learning, um, from wherever you are. Um, I'm far away from my lands. But I've been here since 91. I went through a lot of dark spaces, I went through a lot of addiction. You've seen you you you saw it firsthand, my dear, of what I was going through, what I was experiencing, this lack of attention to my spirit, this displacement, this this, you know, I truly believe my spirit never left, but it had to leave me. It had to stay away from what I was currently uh surrounding myself with, which was all these negatives, all these things, including this lack of this misplaced identity. Um not feeling Indian enough. And that started from youth. Not feeling enough because of the colonial impacts on two spirits from that erasure, which also was intentional for women. When we talk about treaties, how women's weren't women, once the settlers came, they didn't see the value in women. And through these changes, not inviting them to treaty negotiations, not allowing their voices to be heard in decision making. And so that how that tumbled down, right? But there's something inside of us that it never it never goes out, it's never extinguished. So we always gotta look at that within ourselves when we're struggling with stress, when we're struggling with colonial uh thought patterns that we that we can automatically default to. Now we gotta look at our children. We gotta look at the children, but now I'm not only talking about children in the physical sense, I'm talking about children who were adults who were stopped, whose development and spirit were halted at a very crucial time. And that's where that erasure part comes in. And so we're looking at people like me who at 50 years old made a decision to get sober. I didn't make that decision. It was difficult. Creator helped me. It was time for me to go there, but to seek out, we have to start seeking out. And there's calling because our spirit is lonely, right? Our spirits are lonely. And so when we're talking about these highly vulnerable miss uh women, girls, two spirits, boys, men, this is where we have to begin. We have to start nurturing that spirit and reaching out. And I see such beautiful acts of love in the community. And a lot of people don't see that. A lot of people just see the negativity. They just see this and go, oh, you know, there they go again. You know, that sort of thing. But we are a beautiful culture. And if people took the time to see us beyond caricatures and see that we are very funny people, we are very welcoming people. We will share with you. We won't make you experts because we are the experts on who we are. We'll share with you and then but let us. This is this is how we need to do this. So when we're talking about colonial institutions, education, healthcare, justice, CFS. Anywhere where we're lacking in the social determinants of health, that's where we kind of have to begin. And that begins in the home. That begins in our schools, that begins with access. And so we're seeing higher, higher rates of post-secondary students coming out, people who are older, like myself, who came there, but I see uh colleges like Bow Valley College, University, and I'm seeing the stories that you're talking about. I've seen people, I talked to a young woman yesterday that I that I that I that I love dearly, and she shared her story of being trafficked at a young age. Um, you know, and I hear these stories, and you sit with that for a little while, and you're not there to fix it. You're not there to fix that. You're there to whatever they've come to you for. There's something that they shared that with you. Either that's just to listen without trying to solve it. Sit with it, and then you know, it's not yours to carry, but you've been informed. Okay, what do I do with that now? How do I how do I use the skills I have or how can I advance my learning to support persons who are at risk or are currently in this situation?

SPEAKER_01 37:13

Yes, I think it's it's extremely important the uh the work that you're doing, the space that you hold uh wherever you go, and that comes across, you know, in in who you are and your your uh walk in in life. And I was going to say that um just recently, as of yesterday, uh in the news, they're uh you know, nationally they're clawing back money um that's specifically for missing and murdered indigenous women and girls and two spirit peoples, and straight across the board, uh, including the Native Women's Association of Canada, which um started the whole movement of this uh Spirit and Sisters campaign. And so all those things are are going to be impacted. And I often think of there's a quote that I I go back to, um, which I watched during um COVID. Of course, many uh people have watched different programs, and I watched the the show called Pose, what Electra had said. She said, um, they don't kill us because they hate us, they kill us because they hate what it means to love us. And that to me really struck an accord, what currently um is happening, and sort of, you know, cultures that started, you know, that had essentially uh come together during the treaty making process. We're now looking at the foundation of this country and and what what happened and you know, all the way now to here and how things have progressed and now gone backwards. I I would say definitely, yes, you know, where where we're at, you know, we're only looked at as as people that have connection to uh minimal min minerals, critical minerals. We're looking at um mining and ways of getting um the last piece of of land and and water and what what our mother holds. And so it's like what they do to the land and our mother, they do to us.

SPEAKER_00 39:26

100%. And so I just want to address um a pose is a very good thing. It really does talk about what I talked about community, because they talk about these young boys and they all coming from different areas, uh fleeing something, and it's typically some sort of violent um scenario and how they came together. And so that's a really good way of looking at that. Electra is a beast, love that character, man. But going back to what happened with this clawback, right? And so I I like so many others in our community, of course, I was angry, and I was angry, and I thought I've been sitting with it now for almost 24 hours, and I'm like, the way my anger shifts, it shifts from when I was one of those vulnerable people, or when I was still trying to make sense and that Rubik's Cube was all kind of blown up. Um looks different now. And so there's good anger and there's bad anger. I could have chose bad anger, but where was that going to get me? Oh, I'm defeated again. Look at this government, they're after us, and this sort of thing. That's a fact. It's never changed, it's always going to be like that, as long as that's what governments do, especially this Canadian government, which is built upon the foundations of the doctrine of discovery. And then there's good anger. I was sitting out about a year ago, maybe just over, and I was sitting out in uh blood tribe um with my cohort, uh um my master's cohort, and we were sitting on little uh uh Shane Little Bears, elder Shane Little Bear's ranch, and we were receiving horse teachings that day. And he didn't know I was a residential school survivor, but he he was, as most men of our age were, right? And so he started talking about these. And whenever I sit in these circles, whenever I sit in a teaching, there's always that my Rubus Cube is just like it's spinning with just attaching to other information that I received from when I was a kid or from an adult, like, oh, that's what that was. That was that was and when it came to anger, something that I had to work very hard at, because I was a very explosively violent man. I was a very explosive person. Um, he said, you know, those of us who went into those schools, he said, we come out very angry, we come out very hurt, and we come out with um all these myriad of problems, right? These things that are really disrupting our wellness. And he says, but some of that anger, once we work through it, once we're on that healing road, once we're doing that, he said something that just changed my life. He just said, we have to reserve those of us who went there or experienced that, we have to reserve some of that anger. We have to hold on to that. And I and I and that kind of that was almost like those light bulb moments. And I was like, okay, but what does that mean? And so that was the lesson. I had to figure out what that meant, and that's good anger. Now, with that announcement, I could sit in that and choose the frustration that that could come with, and the explosive and my behavior, and my decisions, and how and let it impact my advocacy or my roles and responsibilities, or I can use it as good anger and say, okay, there's another roadblock. This is not the first one we've seen. What are we going to do as a community? How are we going to do this? And that is what we already uh building these frameworks, building these, these, these, these, these, these, these communities where we have children who are learning how to be pride, how to take, take pride in who they are, in learning their language, learning their voices. And that's what we can do. We can direct that anger into good anger, into advocacy, into pushing for change within our communities. Those of us who are, we don't have to. We don't need that money. If you're gonna keep that money, good, good, you go ahead. We could use it, sure. But it is that a hand up or a hand down? What are you gonna define that as? Society will call that a hand down. Well, the only people are gonna give us a hand up now is our people. So those of us who have this opportunity to have healed now have a responsibility. Those of us who came from those schools, who 60 scoop, who have all this lived experience and are on a healing path, have this opportunity. That's the capital. That's econom that's economy. Knowledge is economy. And you spoke about you spoke about natural resources. That's our wealth. When we understand that we are of the land and not an extractor of it, then we have that. That's not gonna stop us. You've tried this before. You've been trying this for over 200 years. Now we've learned a thing or two as well. Whenever we're hurt, whenever we're whenever something comes for us and makes us grief or loss or angry, we laugh. And that's what we have to remember. That's an extension of good anger.

SPEAKER_01 44:40

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 44:41

That's where we're gonna find the healing.

SPEAKER_01 44:43

Absolutely. And I agree with you a hundred percent on that. And I know that we're we're um heading in the right direction, and I see see that really good light and the good stuff that's occurring in even this program itself, um, and stolen voices, um, and looking at ways of uh giving our people a platform to tell their truth by doing so, healing uh and helping uh those that need to go, well, you know what? I am I'm not alone. You're not alone for those that are listening. Anything else that we didn't touch upon this past hour in speaking uh on this topic that you'd like to share?

SPEAKER_00 45:27

It just takes baby steps wherever you are on your journey, if whoever is listening, and this is what I share to anybody, and I hear so often from our First Nations, from our mate's, from our uh from our I'll use the word white passing relations. All these people who were told, you gotta keep it secret, I'm not enough, or were put in foster care, and were told that because they're their brown, they were taught to be bad or taught to be ashamed of it. And they're seeking that. That's that ancestral knowledge, that's that spirit. They have questions. Addiction may have found them, unhouse my found them, concurrent disorders of any kind that were once valued, are now devalued. There's something there. Take that baby step. If ask questions, giving them an opportunity and a safe space to land. Because they've never had that. And so um and this goes, you know, we as men, we have the Moose High campaign, we have to live up to that promise, we have to live up to that treaty and remember um our life givers and honor that, right? We have to really look at that, we have to look beyond some of these lyrics, we have to learn, look beyond how social media has us looking at women or devaluing them still, right? We have to look at women the way we we did in our ways since time immemorial and bring that back up because if they can't see that and if they don't feel safe in their communities, someone's gonna make them feel safe and then they're gonna expose that. That goes for girls, for boys, for two spirits, for anybody. If we cannot create safe spaces or even somewhere to listen, there's somebody not so nice waiting for that. And they're counting on it. And so let's be kinder to each other, you know, on these social media platforms. If you have nothing nice to say, look at the next one. I've caught myself sometimes. I'm like, what am I doing? Why am I sis why am I seeding my grace? I'm I'm buying into this, what they call now rage bait culture. And they found that this is a money-making thing. And so there it's very intentional and divisive. And this is what we're doing. And and and and and and and you know, when when we look at women and a woman is wearing a nice dress, or you know, people judge that. If she's wearing uh something that society has deemed unappropriate, who are the first voices to say that? Men, typically, but women as well. And so let's learn just to to under investigate that. Investigate that in your heart. Where did that come from? And that's that bias, that's that prejudice, that's that judgment. We aren't born, we aren't born with 90% of the judgments we hold. We were born with the most important judgments, and that's to find community, connection. We are born seeking food, we are born seeking air, we are born seeking these things, those are the judgments that we had. And then all this other stuff. Think about it. When when when you're when you see somebody and you're and you start thinking a bad thing about it, what where did that come from? And so just like you're putting your rubber screw back together, you can start taking it apart. You can go, oh you know, maybe I heard my aunt say that or my uncle say that a lot of women, and oh, that came from our environments, it came from here. How we speak to our how we're how we listen, how we're little sponges. We think that that's okay to speak to people like that. To women, to men, to to children. Oh, that's okay. It's not okay. We have a lot of work to do. We have a lot of work to do as a community, and there's a lot of beautiful things. I with your with your pro with this with this G4 justice, having this out, we need that. We need those voices. That's what we can do, and that's what we can continue to do. And we don't even have to do it on platforms like this. We do it in our advocacy to anybody that might want to listen. And if they don't want to listen, that's okay. Don't come at me for something you don't understand because I got skills.

SPEAKER_01 49:57

Thank you. Hi, hi, Nina Smith now. So much, Kurt, for your knowledge, your service, and compassion and working uh with within our community on uh anti-human trafficking. And I I would just wanted to say we're very um so grateful for your presence here on Stolen Voices, uh, the podcast.

SPEAKER_00 50:21

Well, I'm very honored to uh to be asked and this opportunity for us to sit and visit once again. We don't always have this opportunity. I want to thank uh G4. Thank you so much. I'm just very honored. It's a good way to start my afternoon. I'm very uh whenever I use my voice, it it heightens it uh my vibration, if they want to call it that, my spirit just soars. And so I feel I feel full today. I feel abundant.

SPEAKER_01 50:47

Uh to our listeners, thank you for joining us for this episode of Stolen Voices, the fight against human trafficking in First Nations communities. If this conversation brought up strong emotions or memories, please take care of yourself. Reach out to a trusted support person, community resource, or crisis line. This podcast exists because our stories matter, our people matter, and every single stolen voice deserves to be heard, honored, and protected. If you or someone you know needs help, please call the Canadian Human Trafficking Hotline at 1833-900-1010. It's available 24-7, confidential, and judgment free. You can always reach out to us by email at stolenvoices the podcast at gmail.com. Please subscribe to the podcast, share it with your community, and follow G4 Justice for updates. Until next time, stay safe and stay informed. Hi hi, Kinamaskimitin, which means in Cree. Thank you. I'm very grateful.