Saturdays In Jonesboro
Saturdays in Jonesboro is the definitive pulse of Arkansas State Athletics, led by the "Voice of the Red Wolves," Matt Stolz. The series blends Matt’s veteran play-by-play insight with an all-access look at the traditions and red-turf grit that define the program. By humanizing the athletes and the game-week grind, we transform passive spectators into an active community with a true stake in the A-State legacy.
Saturdays In Jonesboro
Play Every Game: How to Build Elite Durability with Jacob Still
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Maintaining an elite level of athletic durability requires more than just raw physical talent. In an era where roster turnover and immediate transfer portals dominate college athletics, staying committed to one program while building a legacy of longevity is a rare achievement. We speak with Jacob Still, a former all-conference center at Arkansas State who holds the absolute program record with 53 career starts, about what it takes to survive and thrive at the highest level of gridiron competition.
We sit down to examine the technical execution, mental preparation, and internal shifts required to anchor a Division I offensive line through multiple coaching regimes. Our conversation dives into the mechanics of the chaotic 2020 season, featuring a unique alternating quarterback rotation, the transition from the Blake Anderson era to Butch Jones' cultural reset, and the operations of the local Impact Club board to secure NIL funding. Jacob shares his unique secret sauce for gaining a competitive edge on the line of scrimmage: performing exhaustive social media background checks on his defensive opponents to systematically dismantle their psychological game during live play.
The physical and structural reality of sustaining a five-year collegiate career involves enduring severe physical tolls, managing an exploded L3-L4 disc, and relying heavily on routine PRP injections just to take the field. Navigating unexpected leadership transitions as a sixth-year senior forces an athlete to completely reset their reputation from ground zero. Viewers will walk away with a profound understanding of how radical accountability, extreme work ethic, and an early commitment to institutional history can set the trajectory for long-term professional success after sports.
If you care about sports psychology, football culture, and professional networking strategies, you’ll get a lot from this. Please remember to subscribe to Saturdays in Jonesboro and share this episode across your network. What is the most unconventional tactic you have ever used to gain a psychological advantage over a competitor? Let us know in the comments below.
@arkansasstatemedianetwork.com.
0:00 - Introduction & The 53 Career Starts Record
3:26 - The Recruiting Mistake That Secured a Commitment
11:07 - Old-School Traditions & Growing Up in a Football Family
18:41 - The Chaotic 2020 Season & Alternating Quarterbacks
24:06 - Coaching Changes, Culture Shifts, & Laying the Foundation
32:21 - Social Media Scouting, Trash Talk, & Life After Football
And we welcome you in to Saturdays in Jonesboro. Glad you could join us once again as we talk about all the good stuff going on with A-State athletics, A-State football in general, and so many good things that we've been able to get to talk about through the first five episodes. And when we first started doing this podcast, I made a list of several people that I wanted to talk to. And this guy was one of the first names on the list, former all-conference center at Arkansas State. He was here from 2016 to 2021. And he's got a really cool record because he started more games than any player in the history of the program. 53 career starts, something that I'm sure he's pretty proud about as well. And he absolutely bleeds scarlet and black. Good to have Jacob still.
SPEAKER_00Thanks, man. Glad to be here. You know, it's uh a little different than the interviews we used to do, you know, after games. So you know, excited to kind of you know dive into everything we're gonna talk about.
SPEAKER_01I mentioned that record, 53 career starts. To be able to say I started more games than anybody in the history of this program, uh, a proud program that has been playing football for over 100 years. How cool is that to say?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it is it's pretty cool when I look back at it, you know, it's just being able to play that long without having like a big injury. You know, I kind of tell people, man, it's it's really just a lot of luck. You know, just uh, you know, being able to, you know, stack those mini games together. You know, obviously the COVID year helped, um, but you know, it's just it's really just a testament to, you know, our our training room staff, Ron Carroll, Eric Enus. And I've spent more time with them than probably anybody, you know, when I was when I was at Arkansas State and they just, you know, threw everything in the bag at me to keep me, you know, moving and going. And uh, but yeah, you know, it's it's pretty cool to kind of look back and you know, when when you're playing, you know, everything kind of goes by, you know, really quick and you don't really realize it. But looking back, you know, it's that's something I'm pretty proud of. You know, especially, you know, nowadays college football has completely changed since when I was playing. You know, I just records like that, you know, you might not seem as much anymore with just how many people are, you know, in and out of different universities. So you know, something that's pretty cool that I can, you know, talk to my kids and grandkids and great-grandkids about.
SPEAKER_01So we talk about you bleeding scarlet and black, and you love Arkansas State as much as anybody that I know. I put you in that Robert Speer.
SPEAKER_00That's pretty up there. I don't know if it's as big as Robert Spears.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, we had Robert in here on this podcast a couple of episodes ago, and of course, he always has great stories. And what he's done is he's become as good of a historian as there is with not just the football program, but just the university in general. And I can see you doing that same thing, and I love the story, and I want you to talk about it just how you came to Arkansas State and how you fell in love with it. And we're recording in a studio that's here in the student union. And one story that I love is how when you got to campus, you'd have free time and you'd go over to the library, you'd walk through the museum, you'd learn about Arkansas State and its history. And I know you spent a lot of time here in the union as well.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. You know, it's kind of funny. So, you know, all the way back in the beginning when I first started getting recruited, I was getting a lot of mail from Arkansas State. And then I'm from Germantown, Tennessee, which is right outside of Memphis. And I didn't come to Arkansas really ever. So I didn't know anything about Arkansas State or anything about Jonesboro. You know, says they sent me a game invite to come up and watch a game, you know, and me and my dad, you know, drove up to Jonesboro. And it was actually, it was they had two of the beams for the indoor up, and it was the old uh press box. So we didn't have any of the new facilities. So we park at the Catholic Church right across the street, and we walk over, and uh, we walk up to this table, and you know, we tell them, hey, we're here for the game. Well, my name's not on the list. And, you know, at first I was like, man, that's kind of weird. You know, they invited me, my name's not on the list. So me and my dad just ended up buying the ticket, watched the game upstairs uh in the second level, and it was Blake Anderson's second year first home game against Utah State. Chris Odom blocked a field goal, and then I think we went into overtime anyway. We ended up winning, you know. So my first real experience was just kind of this raw experience. Me and my dad just watching a ballgame up top. That was a great game, but it was a great game. Um, I think it was the first game we ever wore red helmets, too, potentially.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_00Um, so uh anyway, I just remember being at that game and kind of being in the crowd and saw, you know, I was like, man, these fans, you know, really kind of support this team. I mean, there's a lot of energy here, you know, and I just I really kind of that was kind of the first time I was like, man, I could see myself being here. This whole community is kind of sucked into this game and um you know, which which I thought was pretty cool. Anyway, so that was on a Saturday. I go back to school that Monday, and uh Glenn Ellerby is now the offensive line coaching versus Tennessee and Walt Bell. Those were the two people that were recruiting me really hard. Um, you know, he sends me a message like, hey, heard you're at the game, so sorry, you know, that this happened. Anyway, so I went to the wrong place to check into the game. I think it was for like track recruits or something like that. Oh I didn't go to the actual, you know, place where they, you know, bring football recruits. Anyway, so that Tuesday, I show up to school, and before I go into my first class, my football coach at St. George's, you know, pulled me aside, hey, you got some coaches here. Anyway, Blake and the entire offensive staff showed up to my high school, you know, to apologize and just kind of talk to me. And I remember after that, I was like, you know, if they send the entire offensive staff, I mean, there was probably like nine coaches in my tiny little office in St. George's, my my head coach's office. And they were just like, you know, talking all about it, so sorry, you know, this will never happen again, and you know, telling me all about the university. And I remember telling them, I was like, look, it didn't bother me. That was a great game. You know, and I think I joked. I was like, man, it shouldn't even have been close at the end if we could put this in. And we just ended up talking about the game. And, you know, ever since then, I kind of knew that it was like, okay, I wanted to go to a school that I felt wanted at. Um, and Glenn Eller being Wall Bell and Coach Anderson did a really good job recruiting me and kind of just made me feel like, hey, this is gonna be the spot for you. So that's kind of when I I ended up committing my junior before my junior season in high school, which is early, but just early for a lot of people. I remember I did that and people were like, What do you? I mean, I was like, man, I knew. And honestly, I wanted to get it over with because you know, you just you get so much mail from all these places, and I didn't get heavily recruited, but there was a few a handful of schools that were coming after me. And I just I hated being called out of class with these coaches that were coming in and you know, siphoned through the mail. I just kind of wanted this like, you know, uh smoke and pony show to stop and like I commit and then get all these people off my back. And, you know, so ended up, you know, committing, signing, showing up to Arkansas State and kind of, you know, going into the part about, you know, my first year here. So I I came to Jonesboro. I didn't know anybody outside of my teammates. I mean, not a soul. I didn't know anything about anything. And uh, so that that red shirt year, you know, they they put us through fall camp and summer workouts, and those went really good. Anyway, so I was living in the quad side four other or three other people I was living with. Well, uh, one person, he would go home every weekend. He was also a redshirt, and then the two other people were on the travel squad. So, you know, kind of my my kind of roommate situation every weekend during the fall, you know, I was the only one there left. You know, when it was a home game, you know, obviously I would go do that. So I was kind of just, you know, left in my dorm room, not really knowing what to do. And uh so a lot of times, you know, I just, you know, you the the red shirts would lift Friday morning, you go to class, and then you were done until the team got back and we had Sunday meetings. So I just would walk around campus. I'd spend a lot of time in the library and I was like, man, I don't know anything about this place. And this is gonna be my home for the next five years. I need to learn as much as I can about this place so I can, you know, ended up, you know, loving it. Because I'm not gonna spend five years of my life at a at a university, at a school, and I know nothing about it. You know, I didn't really just want to kind of check a box, like, hey, I come in and then, you know, dart back home after my career's over. Um, kind of wanted to get involved. So yeah, I'd go over to the museum and I tell people, I think I might be the only person that goes over to the museum, which I thought I I kind of did that a lot my first couple years and just read as much as I could, you know, would look at old yearbooks, and that's when I kind of really liked the, you know, Arkansas State Indian and kind of learning about, you know, that tradition and then, you know, getting plugged into guys like, you know, Tommy Walker, Robert Spears, and uh, you know, learning kind of about the culture they had. Bill Stanley is another one that's been pretty impactful um in my time here. You know, just kind of grew into, you know, really appreciating this place and appreciating this community. But yeah, it all started. I mean, my dad just showed up and watched the game and didn't even go through the recruiting spiel. And that's kind of when I knew. And it was kind of unique because that was before, you know, they had all the facilities. I was like, I mean, it didn't take much to sell me. I remember, I remember like on my official visit, you know, I was like, you know, I just don't want to go through and put on their jerseys. It's like I'm committed, just let me show up and get to work. And, you know, it was kind of a that was a fun time. That's a fun time for high schoolers to go through, but I was just kind of just kind of wanted to get to campus and um get started. And I even wanted to early enrollee, but you know, back then I Lyman didn't really do that. I might be more for like quarterbacks or skill positions, but I needed that full first year to really develop.
SPEAKER_01So you pointed at the pen on your suit jacket. You got Joe over there.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And I remember one of my first memories of interviewing you. Heck, it may have been the first interview that we actually did together was at the Arizona Bowl. And Brad Bobo and I are there, we're doing our bowl week coverage, and you show up and you're wearing a jumpin' Joe cap. And I'm thinking, this guy knows about jumping Joe. And usually it was the old school fans that kind of embraced that. But to see one of the current players wearing that and wearing it proudly, like you really got a lot of use out of that cap because that wasn't the only time I saw you in it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, you know, I I bought that cap, I think my first year, you know, the Indian gear is kind of hard to find. Um, so I I got coming back a little bit. Yeah. Yeah, it is coming back a little bit. Textbook brokers has kind of brought out a new line, and I think there's there's a big push to kind of get that stuff back out there. But I remember I bought that hat and I was like, man, it's pretty cool, man. I kind of feel like, you know, one of the older guys, you know, the you know, like the the the like the late the Larry Lacewell teams, you know, I when I would go back and you know read about them and learn about them, man, they just kind of had a toughness about them, like a hard edge about them that, you know, and I think that's really kind of any old school football player, you know, they they really did real to a days, you know. There was no, they didn't have all this fancy uh, you know, facilities. I mean, it was just show up, work really hard, and you know, execute. And it kind of, I don't know, it was kind of like uh, you know, I felt like I had an edge when I wore that hat. And uh anyway, so I, you know, I ended up getting that hat in that season, you know, I started wearing it and during the Red Wolf walks and before games, we kind of went on a little run there and had a lot of good success. I was like, man, I'm not taking this thing off, and uh kind of carried that over in the next season, but it was kind of kind of my good luck hat I wore uh on game days.
SPEAKER_01So yeah, that was fun. You you love Arkansas State, but man, you just love ball. Yeah. I mean, you love football and its shows. You love talking football, and you get it honestly, because you come from a football family.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Yeah, you know, so my dad played at the University of Tennessee, had a very successful career. He was an all-American, and then my brother played at uh Ole Miss from uh 2012 to 2016. And I actually have an uncle that was uh um roommates with Dabbo Sweeney at Alabama. So we're just kind of a big football family, and you know, growing up, you know, we didn't take vacations, you know, we'd go to the lake or the beach, or we didn't go skiing. It was just all football. I didn't know any different, you know, we'd go to spring practices, we would do these football camps, and you know, our falls, my falls, you know, was slated full. We'd go to Tennessee games, I go to um just really any SEC game my dad wanted to go to. We'd just load up the car and go to it. So ever since, you know, my my earliest football memories were just kind of walking into games with my dad and brother. And um, you know, I was really lucky um growing up, my dad was always my coach, you know, ever since I started all the way through high school. Um, so I kind of felt like I was really cool, obviously, to be coached by your dad. But, you know, just having someone that had played the game at a high level for that long, coaching you all the way through, you know, it definitely helped me out in my career. And then, you know, while my brother was all missed, you know, that was a very, you know, fun time for my family. You know, they had a lot of success and you know, really, really good players during that time, you know, beat Alabama twice. I rushed the field um three times uh again when they beat Alabama one time when they beat LSU and then Hugh Freeze's first year when they won the egg bowl um to become bull eligible. You know, so that was just a fun time. And I would always watch him. I go to some practices and you know, we would always uh you know, exchange texts. I had a great message with them, you know, during my during my career. And, you know, I talked to them all the time, but you know, we just kind of pick their brains about some stuff, you know, especially, you know, just the type of personnel I'm playing against. And being I I feel like, you know, being a, you know, a good football player, you know, I never really felt like I had all, you know, I wasn't the most athletic, I wasn't always the strongest, but you know, I I felt like I really understood my weaknesses and being able to understand my weaknesses and try to mm, you know, manage my game around those, you know, made me, you know, successful enough to play as much as I did. You know, so I bounced a lot of stuff off my brother and my dad. And, you know, it's fun. And then and then now that I'm done playing, you know, I'll go to a couple games with my brother. And then my dad still comes to a lot of the Arkansas State games with me. And um have I have a nephew now, sook him to a couple games. But yeah, it's uh true football fan. Yeah, this the still household, that's kind of that's kind of all we did. You know, we just it was football. I remember, you know, me and my brother had a board, you know, talking offensive line play. We'd just uh, you know, a two by four in our backyard and we were working on our steps, you know, before we could do anything. And I remember like we would like try to tackle each other and my mom having to come out there and tell us to stop. But yeah, we just I mean it was it was full on. Um it was fun, it was fun.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it was fun watching your teams play because you were part of some really good teams, some really good offenses those years, especially from 2017 to 2019, because and even the 2020 offense was really good, even though you had the COVID year and it was just a really weird season, but still that was a really good offense as well. But you know, when you think back on those teams, I mean, what what stands out to you?
SPEAKER_00Man, I just remember I f I felt like the offense, I mean, we were just a really tight-knit group. You know, we had some really good quarterbacks during that time, you know, Justice Hanson, it was just unbelievable, you know. You know, Lane Hatcher, um, Logan Bonner got some, got some time in there. And, you know, it's just, you know, we were just really tight and we were explosive, you know. And I felt like our wideouts and receivers were some of the best in the country. You got Omar Bayless, you know, Jay Adams, Kirk Merritt, um, you know, even our running backs, Warren Wand, you know, he was he was unbelievable. You had Blake Mackett tight end. You know, I just felt like we were explosive in a lot of different areas, you know, and that was kind of the style of offense that I really like. You know, going back, hey, why did you really want to come to Arkansas State? There was a lot of things, but I could see myself fitting into the offense very well. And I remember uh, you know, talking to Walt Bell a lot, you know, obviously he left before I got there. And that was another thing when when coming to Arkansas State, we, you know, we went through like four coaches in five years. So I knew before I came in, I was like, hey, there's a high, high chance that, you know, I'm gonna finish my career with some different coaches. And it ended up working like that. But, you know, we we played fast, we were explosive. Um, you know, they they tried, you know, we tried to establish the run game, but man, we would we would spread the field um, you know, and and pass a lot. But you know, I think it was just fueled by guys that just love playing with each other. You know, we were real tight. And you know, I remember on my official visit, uh, you know, my first you know, time kind of being around the team. You know, that 2015, 2016 team. There was like nine senior offensive linemen. You had Austin Morton, um uh Jamar Clark, Devin Mundy, um, Colton Jackson. Some good ones. Yeah, a really, really good guy. I mean, probably some of the best offensive linemen, you know, in the history of Arkansas State. You know, I was like, man, this group's really close. You know, we kind of saw that our first year. I was like, man, this this is fun. You know, you you live with them, you always are hanging out. But you know, I I felt like that kind of spilled over onto the field, you know, and we had some great coaches too that held us to, you know, some high expectations. You know, but I just I remember going into any game and just knowing, man, man, we can score on any play. You know, we're that explosive. And uh, you know, it was fun. It was fun, especially those years when we had Omar and Jay. And, you know, it was more just like you I mean, you just every time the ball was thrown, it was like, man, these guys are gonna find a way. You know, one of my favorite games was that Georgia Southern game 2019, and we just lit them up. And I look back and watch it. I remember like Kirk Merritt was a moss and guy, it's like jumping over them, like reaching over their helmet, grabbing balls, and you know, and and defense played a part in that too. They get they did a good job of getting the ball back to us, but you know, I I felt like we had a good identity on offense.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, you mentioned the quarterbacks that you worked with. Obviously, Justice Hansen, he broke a lot of records and was a fantastic quarterback. I know it had to be fun playing with him, but I think back to that 2020 season, and it was so unique because I I think anybody in recent history who's paid attention to A-State football remembers this, but may forget about it sometimes. There's not too many teams in football history that I don't I I think have even attempted to do anything like this. But the entire season, Lane Hatcher and Logan Bonner rotated at quarterback every other series, and it stayed consistent throughout the entire year. So, what was it like to go through a season like that?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean, it was it was kind of you know weird. And that whole season in general is just weird. You know, COVID happens and you know, the whole world shuts down. We don't know what's gonna happen. We're here, and you know, this conference is canceling, this is canceling, and you know, I've you know, school's getting canceled, so we finish up our classes online and they kind of send us home and then we come back, but we have to, you know, there's all this protocol in place, and you know, I just you know that was just a very awkward time and a weird year. I mean, we had games get canceled, we had to reschedule games. I don't even think we finished playing a full season. We were supposed to play one more game and then ended up getting canceled. Tulsa got canceled. Tulsa got canceled. Um you beat Kansas State. Yeah, and then like the next day we had like 53 kids that get popped with, you know, the COVID. So then all those people have to quarantine. So I think, you know, during that time, you know, we always had to have, you know, people rotating because you didn't know who was going to be your team the next day. I mean, or or even the next game. You know, I remember we go and play Memphis, you know, and we're all, you know, you know, we take all of our COVID tests. I remember they test us before we get on the bus. And then, you know, after the game, you know, we come back and I pop positive for COVID. So I have to sit out for like 14 days and I and go and and I remember, you know, that's when, you know, the NCA came out and said, you know, you could do your opt-out. And I tell people, you know, the opting out was kind of like the transfer portal before the transfer portal. So a lot of people chose to opt out knowing that they were trying to go somewhere else. Um, you know, and then, you know, the NCAA said, hey, you know, if you were impacted by the COVID year, you can take your extra year. And I'm just like, man, that's weird. Who would play six years? And then I had to miss the Kansas State game. I said, well, shoot, I'm gonna take my extra year. I'm not gonna let this be kind of the end of it. Um, but yeah, the the rotating, I mean, it was hard to adjust to, but it was something I feel like that we had kind of had to do in order to kind of maybe be prepared at all times. But it was, but you know, even with the rotation, I, you know, I feel like I was always unique. I had a really good relationship with all the quarterbacks. You know, I work with Lane Hatcher now. Justice Hanson, I was really tight with, and even Logan, you know, I was really close with. So, you know, kind of having that camaraderie with the quarterback, you know, it didn't really matter who was back there. The only difference was Justice was really tall. So if my snaps were a little bit off, it wouldn't look as bad off. Then you get Logan and Lane in there, and when my snaps just a little bit high, you know, it looks really off. But uh it was uh, you know, it was a unique time that COVID year, you know, and people ask me, like, what was it like during the COVID year? You know, did you agree with, you know, all the protocols and this and that? And You know, we didn't know what to whether to agree or disagree or what to do. I mean, it was whatever you we had to do to play. Right. You know, I would have taken, you know, 700 shots if that meant, you know, that's what it had to do to play. And and and a lot of my teammates were the same exact way. You know, we were just kind of adapting every week. I remember like when we first started working out, uh, when we came back after the initial, like they shut everything down and then they opened everything up. Like I remember we were lifting, and after every lift, we had to wipe down the bar with like these Lysol wipes. And, you know, we didn't even think anything about it because it's like, hey, this is what we have to do to play. You know, and I remember we were uh, you know, when we would condition, we actually were running in like these face skater masks, you know, and you know, we didn't think anything about it because we're like, man, if we're gonna have to play this year, we might have to play with the mask. You know, that might be the only way the Sunbelt or NCA allows us to play. And the one thing that was kind of nuts that year is our first fall camp practice, man, they had us on a full visor. So they had this like plastic wrapped around uh, you know, your your mouth area, and then you had like your traditional visor. And I remember when they put that in our locker, I go, man, I mean, maybe this is gonna work, but I'm gonna tell you, after I sprint down to go do our warm-up and you know, right at the start of practice, this thing's gonna be fogged up. I'm not gonna be able to see anything. So that's kind of how it was. Like after about 15 minutes of being out there on the grass field, I couldn't see anything. So I was constantly doing this, trying to wipe down and playing center, you know, you're over the ball, so the sweat's just dripping. That was the one thing that was kind of unique and weird and kind of funny. And anyway, we ended up taking them off like three days later. But it's just, you know, there was something, there was stuff like that all the time, you know. And like when we were traveling, we had to have, you know, you know, people couldn't sit right next to each other, and then you get to the hotel and you kind of had to distance. But I mean, it's just hey, it's what you had to do to play, you know. Yeah. Kind of nuts, honestly.
SPEAKER_01Well, and and then you're thinking the whole time that COVID season is your senior year. You you thought that was it. This is gonna have this is how I'm going to end in my collegiate playing career. But the NCAA comes back, they say you can get that COVID year back, and you had the option to come back to Arkansas State for a sixth season in 2021. In the meantime, there's a coaching change. Yeah, Coach Anderson leaves, Coach Jones comes in, and I know there were some mixed emotions in that. You know, you obviously want to finish your career strong, but at the same time, Coach Jones says, Hey, I'm not coming in here to make a quick fix. I'm gonna build this thing for the long term. I'm gonna build it my way, and I've got to change the culture too. He wanted you to be a part of that, but you knew there might be some growing pains in what turned out to be kind of a rebuilding year for this program. So as a sixth-year guy, I mean, what was it like to go through that 2021 season?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, you know, that was that was another unique season. You know, I think uh when I started out at Arkansas State, you know, I was one of 25 guys. And then that last year, I was the last one left. You know, people either, you know, graduated obviously, you know, their their uh eligibility expired or they transferred or they quit or they, you know, graduated early. So I was kind of like the last guy from my class, which was kind of weird. But it was kind of unique too at the same time, um, you know, because I, you know, a lot of people would, you know, kind of, you know, come to me, you know, would kind of try and pick my brain on just certain things, you know, whether football related or class related or anything in between. You know, and I remember uh when Anderson called us into the team meeting and told us that he was going to Utah State, you know, and that uh, you know, that situation, you know, with uh Blake Anderson, you know, obviously Wendy passing, you know, that year. And then, you know, obviously the COVID, you know, so that time was just, you know, really unique and weird. And it was kind of uh I wouldn't necessarily, I mean, it was kind of hard to process, but it was kind of one of those things where it's like, okay, you knew all this stuff was going on, but you didn't really, you kind of just push it to the side and hey, I'm gonna focus on ball, you know, and you know, with Wendy passing, you know, I I knew that was hard on on Coach Anderson and his family and that staff. I mean, it'd be hard on anybody. And I know Wendy was, you know, uh, you know, played a huge role in this community and and on our team, you know, because he kind of he he basically told us, hey, I'm taking the Utah State job. And it was, you know, kind of for the reason, hey, he needed a fresh start. And, you know, I understood that, you know, and I think you the unique thing about college football, and and now that I'm into the real world even more is, you know, you never really know, you know, who's going to be in and out of your life. You know, it could be a job change, it could be, you know, coaches going here. So what college football helped me realize is, you know, take full advantage of the opportunity you have with someone. I mean, it could be the, the, you know, the equipment manager, you know, the a GA, a coach, a head coach, strength coaches, because I mean, you could you might have them for a week and then you you never see them again, you know. So that kind of really kind of opened my eyes and kind of helped me um, you know, realize, say, any interaction you have with someone, you know, make the most of it, you know, and and try to have a positive impact on that interaction. You know, so when Anderson announced that to us, you know, everyone kind of was like, okay, we we completely understand coaching. You know, there wasn't really any hard feelings. And, you know, obviously when a head coaching changing is someone else is gonna come in, you know, you know, most of the position coaches are gonna leave. And, you know, that kind of opens up the door and just kind of handling that with the maturity said, hey, you know, I know when a new head coach comes in, I'm gonna get a new offensive line coach, we're gonna get a new strength, strength coach. You know, I think the only thing that doesn't change during coaching changes is like you're you're you know the athletic trainer. I think there's like a rule where like they can't, you know, get fired or something if something like that happens. But you know, just kind of you know, approaching that maturity is like, hey, you know, I was kind of with this head coach for five years, you know, he really understood me, understood my tendencies and and everything. And you know, some of the support staff, you know, some of the position coaches, they had changed over. But, you know, I had kind of had a relationship with them. So understanding that when all this new comes in, even though I was a six-year senior, I'm starting from ground zero with this coaching staff. So everything I did in the past is kind of out the door. And so I kind of had to uh, you know, you know, not reinvent myself, but I didn't really change who I was and how I approached everything, but it's just making sure, hey, I stack enough good days in front of these new in front of the new staff to make sure that, you know, they understand who I am, what I'm about, you know, and Coach Jones was was really good. I remember uh, you know, he would call all the seniors into the office and, you know, he got to know us, kind of understand our story. And I remember like, you know, he gave me an assignment, you know, and he wanted me to talk about, you know, some of the stuff that I really enjoyed about the program, maybe some things that maybe I would change, you know, culturally, structurally, like how we operate, practices, you know, everything from like training table to when we get breaks of practice. Man, I remember I wrote him like, you know, like a four-page uh, you know, essay. I actually, you know, wrote it out on yellow pages and, you know, he really appreciated that. Um, but you know, it was it was a unique year. Um, you know, ended up doing a lot of great things that year with a lot of great people. And you know, that was kind of the, you know, we had a a lot of new players and a lot of new staff, you know, and I take a lot of great pride in, you know, I was kind of, even though the year didn't, you know, wins loss-wise, didn't really go with kind of what we wanted or kind of the expectation, you know, we we would have as a university, it was a, you know, a very important fundamental year to kind of get Coach Jones', you know, philosophies ingrained. And, you know, kind of seeing how the team has progressed, you know, in, I think was it coming up on seven years I've been gone now. You know, a lot of the stuff that we were trying to implement, you know, that first year, you know, it's just kind of, you know, watching that thing run like a like a well-oiled machine, you know, and it and it and it's hard, you know, when you when you go through coaching changes, you know, because one coach really likes one thing and then the next coach might want something else. So, you know, it's kind of, you know, we did a whole, you know, restructure of how we were operating. That's not saying how we were operating before was bad. It's just, you know, it's like if you get a new boss or a new CEO, they're gonna change some things and there's gonna be an expectation with those changes. So, you know, I kind of take a lot of pride in knowing that me and and and the group that was with me there, you know, put a lot of work into making sure that, you know, that culture was established and, you know, fast forward here a few years, you know, seeing that culture kind of thrive.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I mean, there's a reason why they've now been to three straight bowl games and have won the last two of those bowl games and the program's going in the direction it is, but it wouldn't have happened without that year. And I remember conversations with you during that time. You had bought in. You you realized early on what Coach Jones' vision was for this program.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Yeah, you know, it's just I was kind of at that point where it was like, you know, like, hey, this season's bigger than my wants and needs. And I understand that, you know, I have to give all in to this coach and this university to make sure that, you know, the teams going forward have a good foundation, you know. So selfishly, you know, I had to kind of put some stuff. I mean, I would have loved to have gone, you know, 10 and 2, gone to the Sunbelt Championship, gone to like a, you know, the the G five or G6, you know, invite to the New Year's Six Bowl. But, you know, there were just a lot of growing pains and there was a lot of stuff that kind of stacked up on that year. You know, you had to, I think that's right when the transfer portal started to happen. We were coming out of COVID, you know, obviously coaching changed, and you know, there's just a lot of things that were kind of stacked up that we kind of had to push through. So it was, you know, just kind of putting my wants and needs to the side and say, hey, what can I, what can Jacob still do? What can I do, you know, to help, you know, influence the people around me and my group to make sure that, you know, this program's better off, you know, when I leave, which was was fun.
SPEAKER_01All right. One thing that I've got to bring up, and I always enjoy talking to you about is the fact that you you were always that player that everybody loved to have on the team. I mean, everybody on the team loved you, but your opponents hated your guts. Yeah, and that's it. That's pretty accurate. Yeah. There's a reason for that. You would do extensive research on your opponents. And I I love it when you go into detail as far as just how far you would research your opponents and who you'd be facing off against on the line of scrimmage every week. And moms, girlfriends, nothing was off limits.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean, that that that's pretty accurate, you know, kind of like as I was saying earlier, you know, I wasn't the most gifted or the most athletic or the strongest. So I really kind of had to use everything I could get my hands on as kind of a competitive advantage. You know, so we would get a scouting report, you know, our GAs and you know, the O-line coaches would give us a pretty good scouting report, and they would give uh, you know, you had the picture of who you're blocking against, and it'd kind of have like a URL of like their team's uh, you know, roster on their, you know, their university website. And a lot of those websites would have their Twitter and Instagram handle thing that you could click on. So you know, I knew, you know, if I could play against someone, I could just say something or maybe just mention something that could get them, you know, out of their routine and that, you know, kind of mess up their sports psych. You know, a lot of times they would be so worried about trying to give like a chip shot to me or just destroy me, or they would, you know, lose uh, you know, idea of you know what their assignment was on that play, you know. So yeah, you know, I that that that's all true. I would uh you know get the skating report, you know, it's real easy. You just do a quick Facebook search of their name or an Instagram search or a Twitter search. And you know, a lot of times they'll like, you know, and I I was on Twitter and Instagram, you know, your opponents, they would follow you, you know. You so I'd kind of just see them, but you know, it's just a quick scroll, you kind of maybe find out who their mom's name was or their girlfriend or kind of you know something. And I just kind of, you know, mention some stuff here or there, and it would absolutely drive them crazy, you know. You know, like the like the mama jokes would just make people go nuts. And then especially if you could say something about a girlfriend. I mean, it first of all, it's like when I was like, how in the heck do you know that? You know, and and second of all, if you know, just you know, it would kind of get them all pissed off to where they'd want to like. I remember like I, you know, I there was a couple of times where they were like that's part of your game pre-yeah, yeah, it was it was part of my game prep and stuff. But I mean, I wouldn't take it too far, but I just kind of maybe just mention a few things here or there. And I remember like one time we're playing Georgia State, and I say something, the dude ends up spitting on me and gets a flag, and then a couple of times they would punch, and I yeah, and I knew in college football, if you throw a punch, that's an automatic ejection. So I'm thinking, man, if I could get this guy to like swing on me, like I don't have to block him the rest of the game, and I'll have to block the guy behind him who I think I can maybe match up a little bit better every single play. You know, and I I got a couple of those, and you know, it was kind of funny. I remember uh, you know, sometimes I would say stuff and then they would like take it out on my teammates, you know, Justin Dutton, you know, who played offensive tackle for us, you know, me and him were real close. He he would do it too, and we kind of would have a contest to see, you know, who we could get to tick, you know, first. And, you know, we would just say a couple of things here and there. I remember, you know, we would, you know, if you make fun of like their shoes and socks, you know, some people would have like goofy mouthpieces, you know, like the big old pacifier mouthpiece, you know, make fun of that and you know, you know, start making fun of them, maybe their tattoos, you know, they get all upset and you know, just very sensitive about the tattoo. Yeah, yeah, they're very sensitive about tattoos, you know, just kind of stuff here and there. But I I always tried to like, you know, I I wasn't maybe, you know, the best, but I I felt like what I really did get on was I worked really hard during the play. So I'd almost like out effort the guys. And with offensive line play, you know, I always, you know, my dad always told me, like, hey, just don't get beat quick, you know, when you're playing offensive line. So I mean, if you could just lose slow, then you end up winning that play. And uh, you know, if I could just, if I could get those guys out of their routine to where they're more worried about maybe just running right down the middle of me instead of maybe putting a swim or a spin on me, then I'm gonna have, you know, a lot of success. You know, so I just felt like, you know, that mixed with, you know, just out efforting them, I could put myself in a good, good advantage with, you know, I never get too nuts with them, but you know, just a a mama joke or a girlfriend joke would really, really piss them off. I think it was more just they wouldn't, we weren't expecting it. Um, but you know, we would have fun. And you know, they they would dish it back too sometimes. And uh it but it was it was fun. I was that was a good time. I miss, I miss doing stuff like that.
SPEAKER_01You uh you look great, by the way. You told me before we started recording you've lost what 70 pounds?
SPEAKER_00I've lost about 70 pounds since my last game, yeah. It's uh, you know, when you know, I you know, part of my career is unique. You know, I I played a lot, I never had surgery, which I think was extremely lucky for someone who played six years, but I did, I was banged up a lot. You know, I had a I exploded my L34 disc in my back, and then I had a lot of patella tendinitis, tendinosis, I think is the exact term. So it's like a bunch of micro tears. And, you know, they would, you know, I I trusted, you know, Dr. Swim over at JOSM and St. Bernard's and had a great medical staff, you know, Eric and Ron Carroll, who, you know, if there's anyone that's an encyclopedia of Arkansas State athletics, Ron Carroll is perfect. So he I spent a lot of time with him. You know, he would, I mean, he has stories for everything, you know. So I was kind of learning all about that, and I'd always pick his brain, but you know, I was banged up pretty good. My knees were shotting. I'd get PRP injections, you know, in my knee, and you know, I'd get some steroid shots in my back and you know, trusting the strength staff, you know, they kind of had to, you know, reshape how I was working out and kind of what they were doing with me weight style. But anyway, you know, after I I tell people, you know, that last game, I think, I don't think I could have, you know, given another one. You know, I I don't I think, you know, you talk about emptying the bucket out on the field. You're giving everything you had. I remember, you know, before that, before that game, you know, I was sore, beat up, and you know, my knees were shot, and I'd go and do all I would have like four hours of treatment, you know, Friday morning before a game on Saturday. And I remember looking Eric in the eyes, I'm like, I think this is it. You know, I if if you if if I have to come back for another game, I don't know if I can. So I always kind of you know hang my head on knowing that I really kind of emptied the bucket. Anyway, the reason for the you know, trying to, you know, to lose as much weight as possible is at, you know, after the season ended, I told, you know, Dr. Swimming said, hey, I've been banged up a lot. Do you mind if I can get a full body MRI? So, you know, if I'm 55 years old and I'm going on a hike or skiing and I twist my knee and something feels all out of whack, I can hand it to the doctor and say, hey, you know, 30 years ago, this is, you know, what had happened to my knee, you know, just FYI. Anyway, so I did one, you know, and everything came back really good. You know, some of the, you know, knickk-knack injuries actually had healed themselves. But, you know, I was kind of just felt sore all the time. So I was like, man, I need to lose all this weight so I can just, you know, feel better anyway. You know, 70 pounds lighter, knees, ankles, back, hips, everything feels good. You know, I'm uh, you know, able to kind of bounce around. You know, I don't do any of the nuts working out like I did when I was at A Estate. Um, but you know, I feel pretty good. I feel pretty good.
SPEAKER_01I love how close you still are to the program. I know you communicate with so many of your former teammates. We had Blake Groupie on the last episode, and he talked about how he's seen you recently and has been able to hang out with you some. But uh that bond between your teammates, I know that's really special to you.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. You know, I you know, I feel very blessed that I was around so many great teammates, you know, and um, yeah, I still stay in touch with as much as I can um with all of them. And I still try to be in as touch as possible, you know, with the current players, you know, but I don't think there's anyone left on the team, there actually isn't anyone left on the team now from when I was there. But, you know, guys like Groupie, I mean, I mean, I'm in a group message with a bunch of my former offensive women and we text all the time. You know, my fiance gets mad at me. He's like, put away your phone, you know, you text them too much, you're talking to them more than me. I was like, I know, but you know, just you get laughing and talking, and you know, we get together, you know, we we think we can solve all the world's issues. But, you know, I talk to Blake Grupe all the time, and man, the career he's having in wow's unbelievable. You know, I'm super happy for him. And, you know, he was in New Orleans for a little bit, and now he's in Indianapolis. So, you know, was in a wedding down there in New Orleans and got to hang out with him and his now fiance, and he's just, you know, killing it, you know, couldn't be more happy with him. But, you know, I'm I'm close with a bunch of the guys, you know, and I I try to be intentional, you know, reaching out to them and you know, getting people back and stuff. And uh, you know, a lot of my people, a lot of my you know, teammates are getting married now, they're having kids, you know, just seeing them do a lot of great things in their life and kind of just making sure I, you know, stay in touch with them. And they do a lot the same. But you know, I'd say I'm very blessed in that way that I was around so many teammates. And, you know, we when you spend so much time with someone, I mean, you're living together, you're eating together, you're in the training room together, you're practicing, you're traveling together. I mean, we would I spent more time with them than I did anyone, you know, my my five years. So you just build that bond. And, you know, no matter what happens in my life, I know I always have my teammates to reach back out to. You know, if anything goes on and I tell them, you know, the same way, it's like, hey, if you ever need anything, you know, just shoot me a message. I'm always here to try to help and as much as I can. And, you know, that that's fun that way. Um, you know, and it's it's you know, when you we talk about the transfer portal portal and people going here and there, and you know, even guys that I only spent one season with, you know, just having that time together, and it's just amazing how close you get with them and how much you stay together.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, you mentioned you work with Lane Hatcher, one of your former quarterbacks, and uh I know that you are working all over the place, but you're based out of Little Rock now. And I remember seeing you this past season at the Arkansas game and uh had the huge event there at the Little Rock Zoo before the game. And I remember talking with you and and just kind of looking around and seeing the thousands and thousands of A-State fans that are just together for that. What technically was a road game, and then to see the the scene inside the stadium was really, really cool. Didn't go the way we wanted to on the field, but at the same time, it was neat to see all those Arkansas State fans together in that spot. And I know you're sounding the horn for Arkansas State down in central Arkansas.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, yeah. That game was fun, you know, and it was just all the anticipation, all the buildup. I mean, you talk about an event that really got, you know, people talking and reaching out to each other. You know, I saw a bunch of my teammates there in Lakazoo right before, you know. That was, you know, I hope we can keep playing that game. And even the night before I was at the uh the governor's mansion, they had an event there, and you know, seeing a lot of people from the systems office and you know, just teammates I haven't seen in a while. I mean, that was just the buzz around that, you know, was amazing. You know, just that's the great thing about Arkansas is you know, we love our football. You know, and you have two Division I programs, you know, surely we can find a way to play more. Um, but that was fun, you know, getting getting everyone back together. And, you know, yeah, I'm I'm I'm in Little Rock now, but about 85% of my business. Up in northeast Arkansas. So I, you know, I spent a lot of time up there and I and I worked for Lane, you know, and me and Lane ended up being roommates my last uh year and a half at Arkansas State. And uh I don't know if I've told you this story, but it's kind of good on how on how me and Lane um got to be roommates. But uh, you know, Lane had just transferred in from Alabama, right? And uh I'm like within his first week, you know, he texts me and said, Hey, my name's Lane Hatcher, you know, I'm food playing quarterback, you know, uh, you know, would love to get together and get some snaps. I'm like, yeah, that'll be fine. And this is at like 11 o'clock at night. I was laying in bed, about to fall asleep. We didn't have football the next morning, but I mean, it I was still about to fall asleep. And he goes, Okay, let's go get some snaps right now. And I'm like, hey, you know, I think the, you know, the facility's locked down. Don't want to go in there and open it up. I mean, the stadium's lights are off. I mean, you know, let's just get it tomorrow. He goes, No, I'll meet you at your, you know, at where you're living. So uh I'm like, no, it's okay, we'll get tomorrow. I he had gotten where I the room number where I live from like uh, you know, our player personnel person. Anyway, so he starts knocking on my door. And I'm like, who the heck's knocking on the door? I was like, man, is this like RA or whatever? And uh anyway, it was laying with a football. He said, Hey, we're going to get snaps. So I throw on some shorts and we go get snaps in the parking lot on like a, you know, a 10 foot by 10 foot, you know, patch of grass, you know, for like 30 minutes. And I was like, man, you know, that's kind of a look. At 11 o'clock. Yeah, I mean, it was 11 o'clock at night over at Pac Place. Um, you know, the brand new apartments that they built that I got to move into. And I'm like, man, this is a little extreme, but I like this. You know, if this guy's working this hard, I need to be his best friend, be in his hip pocket because I'm gonna try to match this guy's, you know, work ethic. You know, and I tell people Lane had like a like a Kobe Bryant level of of work ethic, you know. And uh, you know, anyway, after I did that and hang around with him, I was like, man, I want to move in with you. Like, let's live together. He said, come on. So we ended up, you know, being roommates. And uh, I remember we had a closet in where we were living, and he had boxes of just notes, notebooks from I think he kept, he keeps, he kept track of every single notepad that he had ever done, you know, starting like his sophomore year in high school all the way through Alabama. I mean, it was like a whole storage unit. I mean, he would take notes and game plan, unbelievable. But there'd be sometimes I'd be living with him, and uh, you know, and I hear like the door open, it's like 2 a.m. So I'm like, what the heck's going on? So I get we get up and Lane's going out for a run. And I remember telling him, like, Lane, you need to chill out, like you're gonna hurt yourself. And he just he could not turn it off and he just worked so hard and that kind of uh, you know, I knew I was like, man, if I want to be successful, I need to follow this guy. Anyway, fast forward me living with Lane, ended up meeting his dad, Greg Hatcher, who who founded an Hadger agency. And um, you know, I I think I'm the only person in Hatcher Agency history that got hired without an interview because I called Greg. Uh Lane gave me his number. I called him and said, Hey, Greg, I'm coming to work for you. And he was like, What? I was like, I was like, I I, you know, my season ends in November. You know, just give me two weeks, you know, I'll drive around with you, you know, put me as the courier of the front desk. You know, if you don't like me after two weeks, you know, I'll come back to Memphis. Anyway, so I drive down to Little Rock after, you know, after the semester ends, and uh and I just started working with them, just started doing small stuff around the office, and then, you know, fast forward, you know, six years later, you know, kind of developed a little book of business. But, you know, it's the been extremely blessed with my relationship with Lane and kind of the opportunities that was open and kind of, you know, full so full circle here. You know, when I first moved to Jonesboro, I didn't know anybody. You know, and the more and more you commit yourself to a university and the and the place and trying to get to know everyone you can and being intentional with your relationships. You know, I have this massive, massive spider web of all these connections I've made just because of the decision I went to Arkansas State, you know, and you you sit and you talk with people about, you know, decisions you make in your life that have a big impact, you know, I kind of get a little scared and freaked out. I was like, man, what did I wouldn't have committed to Arkansas State? I wouldn't even know what my life would look like right now. I mean, I'm sure I'd be somewhere doing okay, but every single thing in my life that I have right now, you know, outside of just being blessed by God Himself, it came directly from, you know, deciding to come to Arkansas State. You know, and when I was uh, you know, about four years ago when all this NIL stuff started, you know, kicking off and, you know, Arkansas State, we were kind of, you know, trying to figure out what we're gonna do in the NIL space. You know, Dustin Kellums, you know, reached out to me and said, Hey Jacob, I want you to help on the Impact Club Board. I'm like, well, what's the Impact Club Board? And then it's just a group of individuals in this community that did our best job to help raise NIL funds to provide for, you know, the university, football, basketball, and all the sports in between. You know, so I you know, I was like 25 years old when I got on that board. And it was people like, you know, Chad Neal, who's the founder of Tiger Correctional here in Jonesboro, David Peacock from Hytrol, Davy Carter, who was on here before, um, Chuck Mitchell with MC Express, uh, Mark Donovan, who's the CFO at SH Systems. Um, you know, Bill Stanley was on that board. You know, there's all those people. I was like, man, I'm sitting on this board with some of the most successful people in the history of Jonesboro that have completely changed the trajectory of how business is done in this community. You know, so I just kind of went in there as like a sponge. And I, you know, I was able to help out a lot, really kind of connecting a lot of what we were trying to do with a lot of people in central Arkansas that I was around. You know, so that was another way that I've, you know, was, you know, feel blessed on how to, you know, give back to the university. Right. You know, a lot of people have opinions about NIL. My take is, you know, I think it's fantastic some of these kids can get money. You know, and I mean, I just think back at when I was a student here, we would get cost subattendance that was 600 bucks and it would hit every about seven weeks, seven, eight weeks. And uh, I mean, I felt like I was, you know, Jeff Bezos or Elon Musk walking around. I was like, man, that's it. I can get out to eat. I can, you know, go see this movie, we can go, you know, play some rounds of golf and um over at Sage. So I mean, if if a kid can get a little extra money, I think that's fantastic. And if doing that helps that kid have a better experience at Arkansas State, number one, he isn't going to transfer. Number two, he might have a, you know, uh, you know, more of an opportunity to stay close to the university and get involved. So that was fun, you know, being a part of that group of individuals. And I and I'll say this, a lot of people always ask me, hey, what's NIL like at Arkansas State? Every single time a coach came to our board and asked for amount of money, we were able to deliver that amount. Whatever that was, we were able to answer the bell. You know, and it was fun. And there was a lot of, you know, we we grind it, we, you know, hosted golf tournaments, you know, just being able to having people on that board that had strategic relationships and know which strings to pull to get people there. But, you know, now the NIL is, you know, with the revenue share, obviously, those duties have been passed on to the uh university. Right. So we don't really have the impact club anymore, but we're still heavily involved. But, you know, I take a lot of pride in knowing that, you know, whatever amount that our coaches needed, we were able to raise that and deliver. So it was kind of fun.
SPEAKER_01It's been a fun conversation. Always cool hanging out with you and getting to talk about Arkansas State and about football in general. Now, you did mention one thing uh I gotta ask about before we get out of here. You said fiance, so give us some details. Do we have a wedding date coming up?
SPEAKER_00So I'm I'm getting married April 3rd, 2027, in Little Rock at the St. Andrews Cathedral. Um, you know, I met my fiance here at Arkansas State, you know, which even you know, drawing even a bigger picture. I mean, it's like, you know, met my soon-to be wife at Arkansas State. I mean, I who knows what would happen if I would didn't go to Arkansas State. You know, it's been fun. She's a she's a Nikki nurse, a Baptist in uh in Little Rock, and uh, you know, she loves Arkansas State, maybe just a little bit more than I do. So that's fun. Wow. Knowing that my partner, we can, you know, just be all involved. Um, but yeah, getting married April 3rd. So, you know, a good thing, you know, I had a lot of pressure to propose, but now that you know we did that, you know, the ball is kind of in her court to make sure the wedding gets all planned, and I just kind of have to nod my head. And you know, people ask, you know, don't really shake my head no much. It's more just okay, that's fine, we can do that. But uh really excited for that. You know, it's you know, talking about, you know, getting back around teammates, you know, it's fun as everyone's been getting married and starting to having kids. You know, that's kind of the one event where we know a lot of us are going to get back to. So, you know, I'm kind of excited, obviously, to get married, but you know, to see a lot of my former teammates that I haven't seen and just been talking to on the phone, you know, come back and celebrate with them too. So really excited about that. Still have some time, you know, but before then. But yeah, it's fun.
SPEAKER_01Great to see you, man.
SPEAKER_00Appreciate it. It's been fun.
SPEAKER_01Been a lot of fun. Certainly appreciate everybody tuning in. We encourage you to subscribe to Saturdays in Jonesboro wherever you get your podcast, and check out all of our podcasts on the Arkansas State Media Network.