SNOOKER: A Sport from the Past, Rapidly Expanding in China

Declan Link & Jon Bonfiglio take a look at the unique sport of snooker, its unique appeal, growth, and major figures from history. 

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:20

Picture this. Back in the days of limited channel television in the United Kingdom, there is absolutely nothing to watch. And suddenly a sport appears on television with a camera which doesn't move much at all. And it goes on for hours and hours and hours. And it has all the action component of watching paint dry. And you hate it, but you watch it because there's nothing else on. And before you know it, you start to learn about it and its strange rules, its characters. You start planning ahead for the tournaments, jotting them down in your calendar. The Triple Crown series, the World Championship, the UK Championship, and the Masters. And the number 147 takes on an oversized significance in your brain, and the likes of Jimmy White and Ronnie O'Sullivan become mystical figures. Of course, I'm talking about Snooker. Is that how it was for you, Declan? Because that's certainly how it was for me.

SPEAKER_03 1:20

That was exactly how it was. You couldn't have painted the picture any better, John. I I grew up where I grew up, and snooker was one of those sort of compelling sports that you watched on TV simply because you watched programs on TV, because there was no choice at all. Completely the opposite of what new generations find out nowadays, with having incredible, every possible feasible sport in the world. They can watch anything they can watch anytime. Yeah, and obviously, you know, Ronnie O'Sullivan, Stephen Hendry, Steve Davis, John Higgins, Mark Selby, and Mark Williams nowadays, uh, Dracula, Ray Reardon, you know, some unbelievable names that we grew that we grew up with. And we all, you know, were fascinated by Snooker. And then if we time the world championship comes along, particularly since uh it started in 1977 at the uh fabled Crucible Theatre in Sheffield, we still always keep an ear out for it.

SPEAKER_02 2:24

Yeah, let's go through some of these some of these figures. Um Steve Davis, uh really fascinating character because when he was playing, he was dour as a brick. And then we learn that uh in in years after he retired that he was actually a really personable, funny um character that we could never have imagined when he was just moving across the table, potting uh inevitable reds uh through the through the tournaments.

SPEAKER_03 2:55

I had a particular affinity with with Steve Davis. Do you know why? No, no, no. Uh he was a fellow ginger, he was one of the ginger clubs. He was like a super sub for Liverpool, David Fairclough. Do you remember that name?

SPEAKER_02 3:09

So if we so if we were to ask Stephen Hendry if he had an affinity for Declan Link, he'd say the same. He'd say, No, no, I quite like Declan. No, not Stephen Hendry, Steve Davis. Sorry, Steve Davis, you could you remember Stephen Hendry differently. Uh he had a mullet, but let's come back to that in a bit. So, would Steve Davis say that he has an affinity for Declan Link? Because um, yeah, a fellow of the uh of the um recessive gene redheads, redhead brigade.

SPEAKER_03 3:34

He he probably wouldn't say, apart from the hair colour, that he had any type of affinity with me, because although I I did it really enjoy playing snooker, uh, I played a lot of pool. My uh my uh next door neighbor down but one who I've spoken with you about before, Leafy, Paul Burnham, founder of the Barmy Army. He used to have a uh like a pool table in his house upstairs, so we used to have competitions all the time. It was just harder to get to snooker halls, and they didn't tend to be in every geographic area. But um, I look at you know, I look at Steve Davis as being, you know, he he won amazingly, he won six world titles before he retired in in uh 10 years ago. He only retired 10 years ago in April 2016. Um and he was the first one who who appeared to be completely boring, uh completely wet. But as it's turned out, over the years, he actually has a very good sense of humor and has done very, very well with regards to post post snooker because the the now nowadays the snooker players, again, akin to the football world, you know, they they they make boatloads of money, a bit like the darts players, they make so much money they're eight once they finish, they're able to retire. But like the football world, you know, a lot of the the early snooker players that we got to grow up with, um, you know, the ones I mentioned, uh Jimmy White, obviously, Dennis Taylor. Um they they're all now, or they have sub post post-careers, either had to keep hacking on playing snooker or got involved in media work because they couldn't, they the money just wasn't there in the early days, it was just there, you know, uh to pay the bills at the time.

SPEAKER_02 5:22

Yeah, it's been a big point in transition, hasn't it, really? And um um let's come back to Stephen Hendry. Um my memory of Stephen Hendry was of him ending, I mean, he didn't end Steve Davis's career, but uh I I always quite liked Steve Davis, not for the redheaded reasons, but um but then Stephen Hendry comes along, this sort of machine snooker player, um, and sort of just seems to start uh usurping Steve Davis's uh skill. And actually, um as regards psychology, it seemed to me that that um Steve Davis knew that Hendry was a better player than him and sort of tailed off his career, not because he didn't have the talent, but because Hendry had one over him.

SPEAKER_03 6:07

Yeah, I mean, at the time it was a generational switch, and and you know, I'm a big fan of of Talk Talk in the UK, and I listen to um pretty much most of the daytime shows. And I know that uh uh Goldstein, Andy Goldstein, is a good, uh, very, very good snooker blow in his youth, and and has Stephen Hendry on his show on a regular basis, and he comes across as being a fantastic, fantastic guy still, very down to earth. Um, you know, he he he played for a heck of a long time and really took the bat on from Stephen, Steve Davis, and some of those early players. He's he was the young Steve uh Steve Hendry was the youngest ever world champion at the young age of 21, and that was in 1990. And um he's been top of the world rankings for eight consecutive seasons and has seven world titles, six masters titles, and five UK championship wins to his name.

SPEAKER_02 7:05

Yeah, he can he can die a happy man. He he um he uh definitely achieved uh a pinnacle. He of course he the way he played was something of a characterless machine. And if you like the um both for Davis and for Henry, but but the other um the other end of the scale, the kind of the the sexy beasts kind of uh uh louche figure who didn't really care, but he did, and he pulled off at his best, he pulled off shots that neither Davis nor Henry could even conceive of, was uh Jimmy White. And then, of course, his arguably his successor stylistically, and in terms of life view, Ronnie O'Sullivan, who it seems to me, certainly from my experience, really transformed the game and partly brought it to a new audience, but also to arguably reinvented uh snooker in the television age.

SPEAKER_03 8:03

Yeah, I mean, uh again, as as our main topic is always football, it's human, it's just the human world we live in. Jimmy White and Ronnie O'Sullivan are are like the eccentric, incredibly talented uh players that coaches love to have on their teams in a football perspective, but they're uncoachable in many respects. And I I do remember uh Jimmy White was was was just like this larger than life figure who who didn't uh you know do what he was supposed to do. He never actually won a world championship, but he made it to six finals, and he's arguably the most talented player never to have ever won the biggest prize in sport, which is the world championship. Um, and then Ronnie O'Sullivan, he's enigma. I mean, you know, he he's one of these mavericks, like we spoke about in the previous podcast on World Cup, etc. That that every fan loves them, they're just naturally so talented, but they can't just do what they're supposed to do. They're they they they do crazy stuff, and I know that uh Ronnie O'Sullivan uh is you know a generational talent and has been redefining Snooker for for many years now, but it's a lot of the time they're talking about his off-the-field antics, the fact he doesn't turn up for stuff, the fact you know, he just doesn't follow the norm that makes him so riveting. But on on tap on top of everything else, he is a genuine genius, Ronnie O'Sullivan is.

SPEAKER_02 9:40

Yeah, I was thinking when you were saying that, I was thinking about the sort of the footballing equivalent of your Jimmy Whites and your Ronnie O'Sullivan's, and actually all the names I could come up with, your your Cantonas, your ginelas, your ginolas, your your maradonas, it it it struck me that actually none of them were English. And and I think that's a relevant point, is that one of the things which made Jimmy White and then subsequently Ronnie O'Sullivan amazing was that they didn't seem to be to uphold the values of English, because of course snooker is a very staid, sort of slow, conservative sport as well, which arguably also sort of sits well with what Englishness, Britishness means, whatever that, whatever, whatever, however you want to define that. But actually, there was a sort of a again, a sexy Europeanness, a sort of a screw this anti-establishment vibe to Jimmy White and and Ronnie O'Sullivan.

SPEAKER_03 10:36

I take you up on that actually, because I think there was plenty of British players who were that maverick, going from Charlie George to Tony Curry to Stan Bowles to Alan Hudson, uh, all of those classic names from the 70s, 80s, and maybe 90s were all English or British stock. And you know, they were mavericks, then maybe you know, for the national team, one might have got a cap or two or ten, but never played consistently for the national team. And and if they were turning it on for their club teams, we'll turn it on for their club teams. But Jimmy White and Ro and and Ronnie the Rock O'Sullivan are just sensational. They they are they are top top class, um, top shelf with regards to their talent and with regards to um the stories in the different theatres and and and in the big championships. So and Ronnie Solo Sullivan is obviously coming into the very much the twilight of his career now. And um I know that the cameras will be following his every move because at the end of the day, he's chasing a record eighth title, and that's it's currently he's tied with Stephen Hendry on seven world titles, an eighth would make him the outright record holder, and that would put him most probably into a very happy retirement.

SPEAKER_02 12:00

Yeah, well, we've thought that before about his retirement, but I think I think one of the things which you you know this about certain sports men or women that whatever if if if the right version of that individual turns up to play, to contest, then nobody is beating them. And that is Ronnie O'Sullivan. The only person who could beat Ronnie O'Sullivan on his day was Ronnie O'Sullivan. Um, if other people beat him, it's it's not because they've been better than him, it's because they've been better than a lesser version of Ronnie O'Sullivan.

SPEAKER_03 12:36

Yeah, no, I I agree. And and you know, he's obviously I mean, you know, although I'm painting this great figure of this Maverick who has, you know, uh the sort of life that the lifestyle that the the boring Jones and the boring decons of this world would would dream about. Um he he he's got he comes with a lot of baggage, and uh it would be very, very I mean, obviously with uh we spoke before the podcast that you know the the the crucible theatre which is iconic, you know, they there's been a lot of talk in in recent um years that they should move the the world championships to a much bigger, more modern venue, but they've just struck a deal where they're going to be keeping the world championship, which I think is fantastic, the world championships at the crucible until 2045 and do a lot of upgrades and preserve it. So I think world world worlds the world snooker championships are they only just started yesterday, are in a great place now because you know the the the the the big knock was that it was just a small venue with only a 980 seats. And again, when some of these massive venues in China now, Saudi Arabia, you know, you're talking thousands of seats, and you're talking about basically the same thing as FIFA, it's all about money, money, money. So I'm really pleased to see that um they're going to be keeping it at the crucible and crucible, crucible, there's another mispronunciation. Um but you know, there's it there's there's definitely a big change from a generational and a geographic perspective now. One because you know, the players that are somewhat in the twilight of their careers, like Ronnie O'Sullivan, um are are going to be finishing soon. But there's players like Judd Trump, who's been around for a while now, Mark Selby, um, John Higgins, Mark Williams, uh, Kyron Wilson. They're they're all thereabouts. But very interestingly, uh, and this is the the the change in the sort of generational and and geographic shift, is they don't know if you know this, John, but there's a record number of 11 Chinese players playing in the draw this year, and there's been an increasing number of Chin tournaments in China, and the Chinese absolutely adore the game.

SPEAKER_02 15:03

Yeah, it's interesting. I think we're gonna have to, in a subsequent podcast, we're gonna have to sort of scratch down a little bit and get a sense of how this, because this doesn't happen from one day to the next, of course. This is about, I don't know, whether there's been whether there was um it was screened in China, whether it was a deliberate sort of government policy or how it's emerged, but but clearly China are now at a at a position at which they have sort of collectively decided to be a world force in snooker for whatever reason. So I think we'll we'll need to go back into that. Just a couple of um points of note as well, that I mentioned just when we started that of course 147 was the was the magical, mythical number in in Snooker of the highest break. But actually, this year 153 was achieved by aforementioned Ronnie O'Sullivan's uh on March 20th, 2026, so less than a month ago, a month ago at the World Open in China, and it was made possible by a free ball. So it made uh it meant that uh Ronnie could pot 16 reds surpassing the standard uh 147. And the other thing I'd like to mention, um Declan, is that uh in a lot of the coverage in the last couple of days, there's been a minute's applause paid in tribute to John Virgo, who died in February age uh 79, and a lot of um a lot of column inches in sort of homage and uh memory of Virgo, who was of course a snooker player as well, he won the UK championship in 1979, maybe didn't go on to uh to the heights in snooker, but he was remembered. I think uh got again going right back to the beginning, if if I sort of close my eyes and think about snooker and have a voice which accompanies, which commentates on the snooker, it is the voice of John Virgo.

SPEAKER_03 16:47

Not the glasses of Dennis Taylor.

SPEAKER_02 16:51

I mean a little bit in the glass of Dennis Taylor. We haven't even mentioned the unique Dennis Taylor. And for those of you out there who have never come across snooker before, because of course, if you can imagine when somebody bends down over the green to pot a ball, the standard glasses don't work because you're bending down, so you're actually looking above your glasses. And Dennis Taylor had these unique glasses that sort of looped up high in a sort of U-bend above uh in order to assist his to assist his views. And he was a he was a character as well, wasn't he?

SPEAKER_03 17:26

Uh very much so. I mean again, I think he I think he had an alternate role on on Thunderbirds. I don't know if you ever watched Thunderbirds when you were growing up as a kid, but uh Brains or Joe 90, whatever his name was, um I think he borrowed the glasses from him.

SPEAKER_02 17:41

Yeah, and and and you know, go just going back to the sort of um limited channel thing, that uh yeah, I'm not one to particularly be wanting to bring up the good old days because they were never that good when we lived through them. I'm sure it was the same for you as well. But you know, having it's it was interesting now looking back, having no choice but to spend time with something you didn't like and um which was really slow and boring and dull, and getting to know it and in that way discover the hidden magic of a thing. And Snooker was absolutely that.

SPEAKER_03 18:15

And talk talking about when uh you said we were talking about Dennis Taylor, another famous snooker player from that time, immediately comes to mind as well. He uh he reportedly drank between 40 to 50 pints of lager every day, and um and one day he was playing against Dennis Taylor with his with Dennis Taylor had his glasses on, and this player who I don't know if you remember him, his name was Bill Werbenek, massive Canadian fella, brilliant big guy, reached number eight in the world, split his tight trousers because obviously drinking 40 or 50 pints a day is probably going to make your your uh your body probably expand a little bit at least. So um he's another one that I I think about in those early days with a smile on my face.

SPEAKER_02 19:03

Yeah, um, doctors famously recommended alcohol to Bill um in order to treat a hereditary shaky hand. Yeah, or so he claimed. Or so he claimed. So he took it medicinally in order to help his his snooker. Uh he once drunk 76 cans during a match, would you believe? Um, the other noted uh drinker or famous drinker was Alex Hurrikan Higgins, uh, who always he was again a sort of unique figure in in Snooker because there's this standard sort of tempered, stayed. Um, you know, you don't uh you don't lose your call in any way in in Snooker, but Alex Hurrikan Higgins was was an out was an outlier there as well. It looked always as though you were watching not for the snooker with him, but just waiting for the moment where he was just gonna kick off.

SPEAKER_03 19:59

Yeah, I mean, if I remember rightly, uh Alex Hurricane Higgins, and I could be wrong here, was from Northern Ireland, correct? Um, I I don't know, really. Is he sure? Yeah, he was. He was definitely from Northern Ireland, so he was around at around the same time again, getting it back to football. George Best. So you had a George Best-like figure who is extremely talented on the uh snooker tables, uh Hurricane Higgins, as he was called, two-time world champion. He won his first championship in uh 1972 at uh at just the tender age of 22, and he reclaimed the title 10 years later. Um but again, his his personal life and everything that went with it was controversy. He was he was known for heavy drinking, smoking, and gambling. He frequently clashed with officials, he famously headbutted a tournament director in 1986 and punched another official in 1990.

SPEAKER_02 20:53

Yeah, that kind of stuff. That kind of stuff was unheard of. Yeah, I didn't know that's just not snooker. I didn't know that he was from Northern Ireland, but I did know that he was friends, uh big friends with George Best, and of course, drinking partners and yes, different symbols in their sports of rebellious uh started. Both of him went on to to struggle later on in in life.

SPEAKER_03 21:13

But I I yeah, I wonder what well I was gonna say, I wonder what they would get up to on their nights out, but I think it's pretty clear that there was uh I think I think though, getting back to you know the the uh the world snooker championship starting yesterday, it's um it's gonna be a thrilling tournament. I mean, it goes for a long time, it's April the 18th through until May the 4th. But I think the players nowadays are, you know, again, sorry to keep relating it back to football, but you know, the Arsenal drinking culture when Tony Adams and uh the Romford Pelle and uh Perry Groves and those players, you know, they wouldn't be allowed to get away with what they used to get away with in those days now. But if you think if you read relate it to Snooker. The prize money in total for the World Snooker Championships this year is 2.4 million, and there's £500,000 is going to the winner. So you can't afford to be doing all this other stuff in your personal life if you are a serious serious professional snooker player nowadays. And and again, I look at you know how the parallels between snooker and and world arts now. I mean, Luke Littler, when he won his recent big championship championship, won a million million pounds or a million dollars for that. So the money is there nowadays, so they have to be much more disciplined than arguably the Ronnie O'Sullivan's is now the uh Alex Hurriken uh Alex Hurricane Higgins was, and then obviously the way Jimmy White conducted himself on and off during his successful and unsuccessful years.

SPEAKER_02 22:53

Um Jacqueline, to close off the um the conversation, two questions for you. Uh the uh who for you is the best snooker player of all time, and who is the the snooker player who you would most like to have been?

SPEAKER_03 23:06

Uh I think that's that's I I think that's gonna be answered by one person, Ronnie O'Sullivan, because I would love to have the talent that he has and still has. I would love to have had the the fabled uh stories that he had and and the and and all the other stuff he's got up to. And I'd love to be in a position in the twilight of my career to to be able to go out there and still compete with the up-and-coming youth y youthful generations and to potentially win it and win that record eighth title. So my answer would be Ronnie O'Sullivan.

SPEAKER_02 23:38

Yeah, I'm I'm with you as well. He holds the records of the most ranking titles 41, most masters titles eight, and most UK championships uh eight. And he also shares, you say, with Stephen Henry, most world championships. And bear in mind that statistically he is the best Luca player of all time. Uh, and he was he wasn't on it for half the time. Imagine those figures, uh, the the figures that Ronnie O'Sullivan would have had if he'd actually been fully mentally switched on throughout his entire career.

SPEAKER_03 24:10

And just to finish off, John, I'm going to give you the names of some of the top dark horses that no one knows about or we're not talking about tonight. But from China, we have Zang Ander, who's one of the most improved players on the tour. We have from China C. G. Huey. We have from Iran of all places, Hosan Vafei.

SPEAKER_02 24:36

Are you giving this list just because you want to you want to you want to practice your extreme pronunciation? Is this the new sport? Extreme pronunciation with Declan Ling.

SPEAKER_03 24:45

Well, I can get this one right. Gary Wilson, you know, he's very confident in the crucial. I've got a couple of others for you. Wu Yize, Jack Lizowski, Pang Juxon Yu, and Chris Wakeling. So look out for those potential dark horses.

SPEAKER_02 25:01

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_03 25:03

Of which the most famous, the sorry, the most favoured dark horse is the first one I mentioned, Zhang Anda. So remember that name, Zhang Anda.

SPEAKER_02 25:13

Yeah, and um, and those of you who are listening, uh, look out for the new podcast that we're going to be starting soon. Learn Pronunciation with Declan Link. Talk soon. Thanks, John.

SPEAKER_01 25:23

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SPEAKER_03 25:26

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SPEAKER_02 25:44

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SPEAKER_01 25:51

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