DARTS: The Unique World of the Oche

Declan Link, Paul Schmidt-Troschke & Jon Bonfiglio discuss darts, its characters and its growth from the bar to a multi-million dollar industry. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_04 0:20

Everyone, welcome back to World Sports, etc. We're today, and I'm delighted that we say that we are talking about Dunts. Yes, goddammit. Uh Dunts and joining us to talk about uh about dots. Everyone's favorite sportslash pastime, depending on your perspective, is uh is Declan Link. Uh I was gonna say, Declan, I was gonna introduce you as the Phil Taylor of World Sports, etc., but then I realized my mistake, and I think it's probably better generationally to describe you as the Eric Bristow of World Sports, etc.

SPEAKER_03 0:51

Or you could have actually called me Jocky Wilson. That's another one.

SPEAKER_04 0:55

There you go. There you go.

SPEAKER_03 0:56

The annals of history.

SPEAKER_04 0:58

But uh but you know, whichever one it is, and I know we are crossing into different sports here, you're always our big daddy.

SPEAKER_03 1:05

Oh, thank you, Chung. It's funny actually because my oldest son, Alex, uh, he lives in Boston, and ever since uh Luke Littler's rise over the last few years in the world of darts, and definitely put it front and center in global media, my son Alex is a dead ringer for Luke Littler. So effectively, I could be his his um father from another from another from another mother.

SPEAKER_04 1:32

That's a very specific uh genetic look that uh your son has.

SPEAKER_03 1:37

Yes, but I'm sure, I'm sure, you know, like I've told you before, when I was growing up, if I had been walking down the high street with a a bag of seven tennis rackets on my back and uh bouncing a tennis pool up the high street, they'd often think I was Boris Booker.

SPEAKER_04 1:53

Um but um but Luke Lidler, unless something has happened, has very dark hair.

SPEAKER_03 2:00

Yes, and Alex doesn't have dark hair, but he does have uh a brownish colour hair. It's more the facial looks. It's not the the uh there's not a lot of similarities with with the net downwards because he's a very spelt athletic guy.

SPEAKER_04 2:16

This is one of those um uh uh conversational cul-de-sacks that has leads us to more questions and than answers, but I think we can we can definitely leave the um the link genetic uh makeup and history for a for a different episode. Also delighted to be saying to say that we're also joined uh by Paul Schmidt Troschke, the Martin Schindler of uh of World Sports, etc. Uh Paul, where your interest in darts, just talk us through that. Where where did that begin? How does that evolve?

SPEAKER_00 2:53

Um first uh good to be here. Good evening, Declan. Good evening, John. Um, yeah, my darts journey started. Um, I think it was uh yeah, during the uh the early days of the pandemic, uh, when nobody had uh anything to do anymore, and I discovered the uh by now, of course, extremely exciting sports, um, and very just sympathetic. Uh the whole thing is very, very sympathetic and and down to earth uh sports of darts. And um at that time, um yeah, uh names like uh uh like um Peter Wright, of course, uh were still in the game. Uh one of my my favorite Dart players, and uh interestingly, of course, Germany is not known to be a particular Dart nation, at least on the um yeah, international competition stage. Uh by now we have a few uh more names um in the game, and uh especially Martin Schindler is still um definitely uh uh yeah, has a promising career in front of him. Um he is still not that old. And uh as we as we could see, um, of course, with with names like like uh Peter Wright, uh yeah, they can play well into their uh 60s um and 70s. Uh and of course, Phil Taylor, I think, uh I don't know if he played till his late 70s or even uh early 80s. Um I I don't know. Um, but yeah, I mean it's uh it's a very fun sport. I picked it up myself then, and I realized that all right, um it it is uh not as boring as uh as it looked uh uh before I discovered the sport. It is actually an extremely technical game. Um, of course, concentration is is a key point, and uh nicely in the pandemic you could do it alone. So you oh there you go. You didn't need to uh uh to have uh have a companion to train for that.

SPEAKER_04 4:52

So it's so it's what you spent time doing by yourself in a in a closed uh in a closed room during the pandemic.

SPEAKER_00 4:58

Yes, exactly. And of course, uh my my family was extremely annoyed by it. Uh, even though German houses uh are or in in general European houses are known to uh to have uh walls of stone, uh the sound still made it, I think, uh yeah. But to I I lived on on the second floor, um on the third floor, and were able to made it down to the to the first floor. And especially then, of course, in during the night time, it wasn't much appreciated at all. Uh but uh how should I care? Because I wanted to become a Dart professional. Uh, unfortunately missed that, maybe also due to uh not being able to get into the right uh body shape. I'm still working on that. Um definitely not a Darth.

SPEAKER_04 5:43

You don't have the darts, the darts, body shape. But look, Paul, there's still time because um, as you mentioned, Phil Taylor, I mean, he went on the power, Phil the power tailor. Um, generally speaking, he is regarded as being the undisputed greatest of all time. 16 world titles from 1990 to 2013, but Phil has much more of the traditional darts shape than um than you have. Uh, you you come at it from a much higher sort of vantage point, and you definitely don't have the sort of the low center of of of gravity.

SPEAKER_03 6:16

He comes at it, John. Paul, he uh Paul comes at it, John, from a completely different orbit.

SPEAKER_04 6:22

Yes, there's different gravity. There's different gravity that needs to be factored into the physics of the dart movement uh up there. Paul, I would say that it as you you mentioned in your entry point there that actually the Germans aren't necessarily famous for being for their darts prowess, but I would guess that a decent part of the German uh motivation to be good at dance is because the Dutch are so damn good at it.

SPEAKER_00 6:44

Oh, yeah, yeah, for sure. I mean, uh uh Michael van Goben, um he uh a cocky, cocky player, um and definitely a man you can laugh and hate very, very much. Um, but uh, I mean, exceptional player, no question about it. Uh, but yeah, definitely, of course, uh to see um to see the Netherlands being better than us in uh in a single competition, which is uh which is not ice skating, uh, is of course enraging to us because ice skating, we can give that to the Dutch. Uh, but but any uh anything else, uh definitely not. Um yeah, so uh you can see the reaction within the German Dart community. As uh yeah, until a couple of years ago, uh the German giant, as he's called, Gabriel Clemens was the only um yeah player on an international stage, and then followed by Gabriel Clemens and um by now a few other names which are promising but uh have not achieved yet. Um yeah, big things.

SPEAKER_04 7:44

If you'd asked me even a month ago whether I'd ever be speaking about the German dark community, I would have laughed in your face. But uh but here we are. Declan, talk us through your formative, your inception into uh into the world of darts, the incredible, magical, surreal, uh unique world that is darts.

SPEAKER_03 8:06

Growing up, my uh one of my next door neighbours had a darts board. So we would, as little lads, often go in there. He had a little mini snooker table, which also converted into a billiard table. So we would play all of the what I would call the pub, and in the time the pub sports, uh, as little little guys, just to keep ourselves occupied. And obviously nowadays, unfortunately, that doesn't happen so much, I don't think, because little kids are on their computers and on their playing social media and on their phones, etc. etc. So I I I had a keen interest in it without you know actually following it from a professional level, but that's because it was really a very British sport at the time. The prize money wasn't particularly good, it was sort of in like little old working men's clubs with a lot of alcohol and that sort of stuff. Nowadays it's a glamorous global sport, with you know, when Luke Luke Littler won the uh the Ali Pali, the the uh the the BD the world championships, he made he he it was fascinating, he made a million pounds for winning that. So I understand, particularly in Europe now, and definitely in the UK, Luke Littler, because of his sensational arrival on the scene at such a young age uh in the last two years, he is actually inspiring tens of thousands of kids to start playing dark darts very, very young. So, to answer your question, when we were growing up, we didn't really have role models, we just did it because it was another sport to play. Um, when I was sort of pub age, obviously we'd sneak into the clubs when we're 14, 15, 16, and we'd be able to uh uh have a pint or two and think we were very clever, and we would naturally try and stay away from the bar and we would go and play dance. So can't say that I was ever particularly good at it at all, but uh I definitely on my to-do list on my uh I want to check the box for going to Ali Pali one time in the not too distant future because the coverage when that event is on is just particularly on Sky in the UK, is just absolutely incredible because basically it's a massive booze up. Uh, both men and women go there dressed up as bananas and nuns and horses and astronauts, and then they just have a great time. Um, I went to Peter Crouch Fest one time, which is going off a tangent, and it was exactly the same thing in the the Wembley Arena. You had thousands of people dressed up, dressed up, it was bizarre. Um, and I think that's what Ali Pali's like. So I'm I don't play nowadays because I lead a nice, clean, good, clean, sort of monk-like life. Uh, so I don't try to go to places where dance is being played, but I can definitely appreciate it. And and the money behind it now means it's uh it's it's making the TV companies money, it's making sponsors money, and it's definitely making the top professionals who, as you guys were saying, are now from a whole load of different countries, not just England, Scotland, and Ireland. So uh it's definitely worth that. That's why we're talking about it tonight.

SPEAKER_04 11:18

Um, Declan, what the hell is Peter Crouchfest or Crouchfest?

SPEAKER_03 11:22

You don't know, John. You need to get out a bit more often. Crouchy is very famous post uh Peter Crouch, the England uh six foot seven guy who's an inch to an inch or two smaller than Paul. Uh, he does podcasts regularly, and he has he has millions of listeners on his podcasts around the world. And my middle son really is into it, he just loves listening to the banter back and forth. So he took it to another level, and every year he has an event at Wembley, uh place where they have boxing matches and basketball matches. And it's an event called Crouch Fest. I happened to go a couple of years ago.

SPEAKER_04 11:59

I happened to go.

SPEAKER_03 12:01

I thought I'd landed on a on uh a different planet.

SPEAKER_04 12:06

Um I I appreciate though, Declan, that you took us to your um to your youth, to life in your youth when you spent some time on the other side of the of the law and how that sort of sat alongside your your your uh how darts was a formative period in your um in your uh not necessarily legal youth.

SPEAKER_03 12:31

Yep, but you did it as well, everyone did it at the time.

SPEAKER_04 12:34

I never drank underage, come on. Let's not uh you know uh can we come to the um uh but I'm making up for it now. Can we come to the uh the the best players of all time? I mean, my my emergence into darts was a little bit uh we spoke about Snooker a few weeks ago. Uh definitely it was just there, and you think, what the hell is this? And you start following it, and then it becomes absolutely riveting. And it's also, I think, a unique sport, actually almost similar to Snooker, in that they really get maths into it, really gets maths into your or math as people would say in the US, into your head. You find yourself suddenly trying to do sort of really fast sums and possibilities in a way that um uh that are well beyond you, and of course, that the sort of commentator uh it requires very particular commentating skills, Declan.

SPEAKER_03 13:34

Yes, I mean again, I I don't follow it closely enough to to uh to know the although I have seen them interviewed, you know, the because I think the the the one who does for for the major world championships, the the guy who's been around it forever, I think he might have retired after this year's world championships. And and again, he just has a mind, you know, is he's the one calling out the scores 180. And then, you know, they the the not only the darts players themselves, but the the people um who are doing the commentating and that guy, whatever his name is, uh, you know, they just have must have an incredible mathematical mind to be able to to so speedily and so quickly uh look at where the darts have ended up and coming up with permutations on on how to you know get to close out the game on a double. So, yeah, I mean, that's definitely not me, I can tell you that much.

SPEAKER_04 14:29

No, it's it's it's amazing how sharp these individuals need to be. And of course, a lot of it is um is you you learn it, but equally a dart goes off, and you need to you need to do those sums um in the moment. I I don't know if you're referring to John McDonald, the sort of the World Darts Championship iconic master of ceremonies who are. Let's come to the um to the sort of the I guess partly sort of the iconic figures that we potentially grew up with, but who we would regard as being the real sort of darts uh figureheads. Paul, can we start with you? Have you sort of um just close your eyes and think of the most the seminal figures in darts, not necessarily the best, but the seminal because one of the things about darts is that character is really important. It's not just how good you are, it's kind of who you are, it's what you what you exude, it's the the sort of the um uh I guess the the sort of the flamboyance, the uniqueness around the figure, uh that um that is the that is the thrower of the darts.

SPEAKER_00 15:35

Yes, um, I mean if I if I close my eyes, of course, I see uh a different uh hairstyle every time. Um a smiling face all the time, always in a good mood, of course. I'm speaking about um Peter Wright, the the Scotsman. Um, I don't like him because of uh because of his very, very particular and always changing hair, um, which made him a legend uh in in the sport, uh just for that fact, of course. Um, but I mean he is just such a nice uh down-to-earth humble guy. Um he also was uh oftentimes quite uh quite unlucky in his career, and I think in only in 2022 was able to win his um his first uh PDC, was it? Uh um or no, I think it was uh in 2020 he won exactly. He won his first uh PDC World Championship. Um and then two two years after that, again, well deserved. Um and he played uh yeah, very, very long years um of uh yeah being close to it uh from time to time and losing it. So that that's uh definitely definitely my my favorite player of uh of all time.

SPEAKER_04 16:51

Declan.

SPEAKER_03 16:54

I've got one to finish off with, which is really left field, which you might or might know about, but obviously, Phil the power tailor is the legend, the icon. And that's if you just look at the number of world championships some of these players have have um uh have managed to win. You know, he won 16, as you said earlier on.

SPEAKER_04 17:14

16 in a 23-year period. So he was winning every two out of every three years.

SPEAKER_03 17:21

And if you go down the list, you you know, you we we're again we met in a couple of years, had had five world championships. Um Paul's one of Paul's best mates, Michael Van Goghen, who's obviously still playing, has won three world championships. John Lowe, another Dower Englishman, um, won three world championships, another Dutch fella, uh Raymond uh Van Barnevelt, who who retired in 2020, uh, he won five world championships. And then you go down the list, and Peter Wright, uh, who Paul seems to have an affinity with, you know, he's he's ranked number nine in in the the all-time best players. Jockie Wilson, uh who I had a particular appeal for. I wasn't joking about that earlier on. But then the one that I think it's just a special story. Uh, did you did you ever remember a guy called Keith Deller?

SPEAKER_04 18:14

No, no, no.

SPEAKER_03 18:16

Okay, he's the only qualifier to have won a world championship. He's from Ipswich in South Sussex. Ipswich. And uh, which I think, if I remember rightly, John, you're from that part of the country.

SPEAKER_04 18:29

Well, I I would I I would resist saying that I'm from that part of the country. Again, Ipswich listeners, close your ears to this and please don't send any hate mail. Um, but I definitely grew up in that neck of the woods. But uh no, I always had outsider status.

SPEAKER_03 18:44

I think it's he ended up coming from absolutely nowhere. You know, it's it's like someone who's a musician who has it who is classified as a one-hit wonder or a football team somewhere in the world that out of nowhere gets all the way to the final and beats so and unexpectedly beats someone like Wigan against Manchester City a few years ago. But in 1983, he was the only qualified qualifier to win a world championship and he defeated the aforementioned Eric Bristow 6'5 in a uh in a in a very famous final. Um, he did go on to become have a decent career as a journeyman professional and got an MBE, but he's not listed in uh you know if you're using the criteria for number of world championships won because he had his one night in the in the uh in the floodlights. Interesting.

SPEAKER_04 19:35

Um yeah, I I had a I uh always really liked Raymond van Barneveld, Barney. He just seemed to have something about him, a sort of a cuddly bear, but uh sort of look, but actually one of the figures which I remember switching on the TV in the 80s, um, and it was also I I'd had a bad accident as a kid, so uh I couldn't move a lot during my early teenage years, so I was sort of stuck in front of uh the the television for a couple of years, and there were limited channels, and of course, darts was on there, and and it was early on in my arriving into England and not being sure of uh who I was or what England was, and I remember watching, of course, Test match cricket was amazing because it lasted for five days, so you had something interesting to well, interesting and invited commerce to to watch, and so my formative years were spent watching the West Indies Drub England, but also Darts was and Snooker was a was a key part of that. And one of the figures which I remember, which I'm sure you'll remember, Declan, is Steve Beaton. Do you remember him?

SPEAKER_03 20:36

That name does not ring any bells at all, John.

SPEAKER_04 20:38

The bronzed Adonis. So because Darts at the time, I mean I think Darts now is um it was it's always been a bit of a wild ride, but at the time it was a little bit more um, I don't know, sort of uh uh it definitely definitely wasn't as crazy as the audiences are now. And switching on the TV at the time, there was this figure uh of Steve Beaton, who it wasn't a world beater, but uh but he had really long curly hair which was sprayed with some kind of oil. He had an open shirt, chest hair full-on display, and he would always get into the kind of kind of the quarterfinals and and stuff, and then and then lose nobly in a kind of Jimmy Y way there. But it was one of those uh television experiences that made me think, what the hell is is England? He was one of those sort of those parallel figures that makes you the sort of rocks the boat in 80s England, the the the garlic to your potato, if you uh uh if if you like, and and a completely unique, um unique figure at the time, but probably one of the reasons you don't remember him is because he wasn't really that good.

SPEAKER_03 21:44

No, no, that was a very interesting story, but I probably won't remember that name tomorrow if someone asked me ten different people asked me the name.

SPEAKER_04 21:52

If any of our listeners out there uh remember Steve Beaton or know of Steve Beaton, I think it's going to be my personal challenge. Now to get Steve Beadon on the podcast and uh and let's get him on the podcast introduced by Declan Link, who doesn't remember him. I think that'll make for great a great broadcasting. Can we fast forward to darts today? To the sort of evolution of um of of darts. Uh Declan, of course, you've spoken about Luke Littler. His appearance on the scene is really um, I mean, it completely unexpected, right? We we never would have thought that a 17-year-old could have come on and taken the darts world by storm in the way that Luke Littler has.

SPEAKER_03 22:33

Yes, and now, you know, when when we all saw him burst onto the scene, we we've sort of got used to uh Luke and and the way he behaves, which is incredibly maturely, etc. etc. Uh call as a cucumber. But I think when he first burst onto the scene and had uh you know the success he had, we really were globally questioning whether or not he really was whatever he was, 17, 18 at the time, because he looks so much older than he really does. And um, you know, in in in recently it seems as though, you know, he's he star on the on the on the hockey, he's he's absolutely fantastic. He's he's you know, in this new PDC uh Premier League Darts tournament that they're playing uh uh around Europe every uh I think it's every Thursday night with Luke Littler, Luke Humphries, Michael Van Gowen, uh Van Van Veen, who who did very well in the World Championships, Johnny Clayton, Stephen Bunting, Josh Rock, and Gowin Price, the famous Welsh player. Uh he's still doing incredibly well. Luke Littler is, and the prize money is incredible and the TV exposure is incredible. But there has been inklings in um around around the time of the championship that he talked, you know, he lost it, and he talked about when the fans were getting on at him that he he burst out, well, you know, you you're all jealous because you're paying my my my money, you're you're you're responsible for my money. And I think correct me wrong if I'm wrong, Paul. But in Germany, I think the German fans give him in particular a tough time. Is that correct?

SPEAKER_00 24:15

Um I'm I'm I'm not so sure about that, uh, because I think um the the German Darts community is is not so so unified on that. Um at least uh I mean I I don't follow specific uh Luke Littler uh online discussions. Uh fan pages.

SPEAKER_04 24:34

Well, you know, what what have you been exactly on?

SPEAKER_00 24:36

Yeah, I'm I'm sorry. Uh but uh um but like with with my friends who are very much into darts, uh they of course they still admire him. And as you said, he he he entered the game at at the age of 17 and um already uh I would say behaves more mature than than a lot of others in the competition, um, or behave to till he duly made uh that remark like that. Uh yeah, yeah, he has he's having his moments, isn't he?

SPEAKER_04 25:01

But it's hard pressure, it's a really hard pressure environment.

SPEAKER_00 25:03

Exactly. And I mean it's uh it's it's very fair that uh that at some point um having achieved already that much and uh yet not not uh having uh or yeah, he he he didn't fall victim yet to his success, I would say. Um just to to draw an analogy, uh, like uh uh an Aymar, for example, uh who had the potential to um to be the the best player in the world for uh for consecutive uh for for a very long time, and uh and Luke Littler has been one of the best, if not the best, um in on average uh over the last three years. So I think it it's fair to um to give him some wiggle room when it comes to the floor.

SPEAKER_03 25:44

They're definitely describing Luke Littler as long as he can keep everything together and he's got good advisors around him. It seems like he has a decent family structure around him. As you said, it's the pressure, it's the travel, it's all of the sponsor engagement stuff, etc., that could actually you know be his downfall. But he is he he is the one who is who is being spoken as as one of a generation in the sort of Phil the Power Taylor uh type of uh reference that he's that he could potentially be that type of player, which again is scary when he's still so young.

SPEAKER_00 26:19

I mean, if you look at his stats, um it is incredible. If you look at nine datas, uh Phil Taylor scored 29 nine datas over his career, and Luke Littler uh is already at nine. Um, so already achieved a third of uh of uh in terms of nine datas, at least, um, and uh already won uh one one one world championship, right? Uh or or did he actually defend it?

SPEAKER_04 26:41

Um can we just uh just for um for for non-dar aficionados, uh declining, can you just describe obviously it's almost like the one four-seven is snucker, but can you just describe the importance, the sort of mythic importance of the nine data for us?

SPEAKER_03 26:56

Uh I mean ultimately when all is said and done, you know, you you start off, you're maximizing your score going all the way through to in the same way that with Snooker, you know, the technically the maximum number you can get is uh 147 break. It's the same thing. You get up and it and it takes you nine darts to finish on you on the double, and and to Paul's point, you know, that's very incredibly hard to do, and Luke's already done it the same number of times as Phil the Power at such a young age, is unbelievable.

SPEAKER_04 27:30

Yeah, it is. He's already a third of the way there, and he's only been playing as a professional for single-digit years. Um, as you say, the quickest possible um checkout. Paul, can we just finish with with you? Um, Darts, of course, has now transformed itself from you know, when I saw uh Steve Beaton, that none of us remember in the 80s on television from being a pub pastime into what is now a global high-stakes sport driven by uh the PDC's expansion, high viewership, and and I understand now a 50 million strong player base worldwide, of which uh one of those port was you during uh during the COVID meltdown. And the sport's popularity is booming Europe. Every time I I sort of see one of these world championships, there are it sort of feels that there's a slightly more expanded uh national representation. And Germany, we've spoken about the Netherlands before, but Germany is definitely a growth, growth country there. Um, does it does Germany feel that? Does Germany feel as though it is a does it feel like a new sport in Germany full of possibilities, or or am I misreading that?

SPEAKER_00 28:36

I wouldn't say you you're misreading that. Um I think uh it was for a long time uh overlooked that uh Germany already had, I would say comparatively, um, to other countries except uh except um the the UK, already a quite a strong um like uh of course in the pubs uh uh player base, um also with with small um individual clubs where people actually trained uh without uh having a drink and trained for championships. And uh so you had that already for a long for a long time. Um and I I think it is just uh to uh yeah, due to the fact that Germans are very, very pessimistic that people who um yeah, who actually were quite good players or are quite good players are just not making the jump to the um to the uh professional stage because we we have uh uh lots of good players in Germany. Um as I said, uh long long darts uh culture history uh in pubs. Um so what I what I don't like, and that of course where you can see the growth is um is in in the commodification of darts now that uh every player, I mean that has been going on already for for quite some time, but every player has uh has their individual darts. Um they are being solved sold for in my opinion quite uh horrendous sums. Um so it's uh that there you can see the the growth, and I have many many friends who are um who came actually who started watching darts um in uh yeah with with the rise of Luke Littler and are quite enthusiastic and stayed with the sport. Um, so it's definitely uh not not my uh not my single experience, uh uh which is like that. Um, but uh there's definitely uh I would say in terms of uh Dart, how feverish uh or how broad the fever can be, but there's definitely a dart fever in in Germany at the moment. Um, just the professionals are missing on the on the world stage, which we can uh support. Dart fever.

SPEAKER_03 30:41

Can I ask you two fellows a quick question? How how is the darts scene in Mexico? Because uh a few weeks ago I was quite shocked that uh there is uh uh a fairly thriving cricket scene in Mexico, which I never thought in a month of Sundays. How's the darts scene in Mexico?

SPEAKER_04 30:59

Porsche Metroska.

SPEAKER_00 31:01

Now I I just wanted to say I give over to you, John, because uh you must have seen um a high multiple more pubs uh from the inside than me. I have not yet been into um into Mexican pubs in which there was uh um in which there you could play Dart. Um but uh maybe uh John proves me wrong now.

SPEAKER_04 31:22

No, Dartboards are definitely museum pieces in Mexico, very, very unusual uh to um to find here. But again, I I appreciate that um that Paul used uh the uh the the the bingo phrase which nobody ever thought that they would uh they would have in their bingo card and their lottery card. That dark fever in Germany is booming, is feverish among the German dark community. There are some words in there which I never thought would have uh would would have come together. Listen, a couple of things to finish off. Um one is I I think that there is a future in us organizing a sort of an annual or a bi-annual World Sports, etc. darts championship. I think that'd be a really cool thing uh to do. And I think listeners can um can imagine who because I think we we could uh almost in a sort of um uh in a uh I guess sort of charity setup, we could put pull our own teams together and see who are the three of us, uh the captain sides would would emerge uh top. I think there's definitely some Netflix uh licensing potential there.

SPEAKER_03 32:33

So to make it to make it fair though, John, you and I would have to stand on chairs.

SPEAKER_04 32:38

Yeah, yeah, yeah. We would his reach. Uh he's he's Paul Schmidt Troshka is the kind of guy that reaches into a river and and comes out with a fish in his hand. That's the level, that's a level of reach that Paul Schmidt Troshke has. But let me finish with with a variant with a with a dance, um, with a dance variant, which which I can say uh in this podcast because my mother hasn't uh discovered the world sports, etc. podcast yet. She knows about the world cup, etc. podcast, but she doesn't know about this one. Every every uh summer when I'm up in the northeast in the US, um uh up there for a variety of different things, there's a group of friends up there, and we we like to play a bit of darts, but we play a variant of darts, which is you play in pairs, and one of you places their hand on the middle of the darts board, and then your partner has to shoot around your your hand. So you have to trust your your partner, and of course, get as close as you can to the fingers without actually sort of stabbing the fingers, and it is a real sort of sorter between the wheat and the chaff, and it's um it's two weeks of real high stakes tension uh in uh uh which I think is a it's it's it's a it's a worthwhile variant in uh in the darts universe, which I'm guessing you guys haven't played before.

SPEAKER_03 33:55

Talking of your mum, John, uh have I upset her? Because when we started the World Cup, etc. podcast, she was regularly sending me emails. She seems to have dropped off, so I must have said something that offended her.

SPEAKER_04 34:06

Oh my god. Did she actually was you mean she sent the World Cup etc. to the World Cup, yeah. Okay, that's good. Because I for a minute I thought that she was actually emailing you uh personally, which is not you know outside of the bounds of possibility. But uh, yes, again, going back to sentences which I don't want to hear in our podcast. Um, one which starts talking about your mum.

SPEAKER_03 34:27

Did you see the good news today that our boy Ronnie O'Sullivan won the world senior snooker championship at the crucible? Because we talked about him a lot in the last few weeks.

SPEAKER_04 34:35

There is he he he's he qualifies for the world senior championship and he turns up.

SPEAKER_03 34:41

Yes, this was his debut, his inaugural tournament, and he went through all the way to the final. Uh, and although he's obviously looking for that eighth winner in the regular main world championships, he's seven-time winner currently. He's already uh marking history books for uh for the world senior snooker championship.

SPEAKER_04 35:00

That's uh I mean that must be a that's a hell of a seniors tour, isn't it? I mean, in most sports, by the time you get into the seniors tour, it's sort of a bit sort of showy and demonstrative, but that is there's some proper challenges there.

SPEAKER_03 35:12

Yeah, I'm sure the money involved sort of uh attracts them. You just think of the same thing with golf, the PGA senior golf tournament. There's these guys who don't need to to play golf or or or work again in their lives, but they keep doing it because there's so much money involved when you're at the highest level of all these sports that sort of they're mainstream sports, but they're not the sports that we all think about with regards to football and rugby and NFL and MBA and blah blah blah. Uh, but how we originally started talking about darts and how much it's changed over the years from the early days when we were growing up through to now, when they're talking about a million pounds just to win the world championships, considering there was 16,000 pounds available in 1990 for one of one of the tournament wins. Uh, if you, me, or PST had the talent, we'd be doing that. We wouldn't be doing podcasts from Mexico and Orlando.

SPEAKER_04 36:06

Um, I I don't appreciate uh chaps that uh when we come out of a podcast and it leaves me with homework. Um and I have three three tasks to achieve uh now. After this one, of course, the first one is to locate Steve Beaton and uh and get him involved in in some way. I I hope he's enthusiastic once I trace him, once I track him down. The second one, of course, is to block my mother from all podcast material from now uh in in perpetuity. And the third one is to organise a World Sports Etc. Darts Championship. I think I can do that once we get through the um the World Cup. So yeah, thanks for thanks for setting me up with uh with a huge task list, uh gents. That's your homework.

SPEAKER_00 36:48

Yeah, absolutely, and uh you better train.

SPEAKER_04 36:51

Watch those ceiling beams, Paul Schmidtroschka.

SPEAKER_00 36:56

Sorry, I didn't understand uh all the uh thank you.

SPEAKER_04 37:01

Uh thank you very much and talk soon, both of you.

SPEAKER_03 37:04

Thanks, guys. Appreciate your time. Have a great week ahead.

SPEAKER_00 37:07

Thank you so much. Bye-bye. So that's it from us for today.

SPEAKER_03 37:12

And if you just can't get enough of us, you can support us and get access to our premium content on Patreon, consisting of special interviews, deep dives, and QA's. You will find a link to our Friends of the World Sports, etc. Patreon page in the show notes.

SPEAKER_04 37:30

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SPEAKER_00 37:36

Also, check out our World Cup, etc. podcast for everything surrounding the upcoming FIFA World Cup in the US, Canada, and Mexico. And with that, thank you so much for listening and goodbye.