The Pre-Med Playbook
The Pre-Med Playbook is the definitive roadmap for the next generation of physicians, hosted by Casey Pearce to deconstruct the pre-med journey from freshman year to the White Coat at NYITCOM at Arkansas State. This series provides a localized, end-to-end perspective on the medical school pipeline, offering direct access to the faculty and students navigating the Arkansas healthcare landscape. By transforming the daunting path to medical school into actionable steps, Casey and his guests provide the structure to turn a dream into a clinical reality at Arkansas State.
The Pre-Med Playbook
Beat the MCAT Roadblock: The Post-Bacc Bridge
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Med school dreams don’t always follow a straight line, and that doesn’t make them any less real. We sit down with three NYITCOM students who took a post-bacc Master of Biomedical Sciences (BMS) route before starting a Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine (DO) program, and they get honest about what pushed them there: waitlists, shaky confidence, big life detours, and the stress of the MCAT. If you’ve ever wondered whether you’re “behind,” this conversation is a reset button.
We dig into what a biomedical sciences master’s program actually does for premed students, especially the part nobody glamorizes: learning how to study at medical school volume. You’ll hear practical strategies for active learning, building consistent routines, and avoiding the last-minute pileup, plus a memorable “pancakes” analogy that makes the workload feel manageable. We also explain how a bridge program can feel like a pre-first-year experience, with similar professors and science content, so the transition into a DO curriculum is less of a shock.
Then we zoom out to the bigger picture: research, residency competitiveness, rural health, population health, and social determinants of health across Arkansas and the Delta region. The guests share how research and community-focused projects can shape your purpose and help you see medicine as more than tests and lectures. If the MCAT has been your biggest roadblock, you’ll also hear why some students believe performance in a rigorous master’s curriculum can be a better predictor of medical school success.
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0:00 - Med School Dreams Don't Follow a Straight Line 0:45 - Shaky Confidence, Waitlists, and the MCAT Block 2:15 - What Does a Biomedical Sciences Master’s Actually Do? 4:30 - The "Pancakes" Analogy: Managing Medical School Volume 6:45 - Active Learning Strategies & Daily Routines 9:15 - The Pre-First-Year Experience: Transitioning into DO 11:40 - Why Master's Performance Beats the MCAT Score 13:55 - Research, Residency Competitiveness, & Delta Region Health 16:20 - Finding Your Purpose in Medicine Beyond the Tests
Welcome And Many Roads To Medicine
SPEAKER_01Welcome to the Premed Playbook Podcast. I'm Casey Pierce. I'm the Director of External Relations and Marketing for NYIT College of Osteopathic Medicine. We're a medical school that operates in partnership with Arkansas State University here on the A-State campus. The purpose of this program is just to tell you a little bit about the pre-med process, to give you some advice from some people who have been there. And so those that are interested in potentially going to medical school, we're going to share some tips, some advice, some perspective on some of those. And today we're going to specifically talk about a unique path to getting towards medical school. There are many paths towards medical school, and some people go straight from undergrad. Others take a gap year to study or build their application or even get some clinical experience. For some people, it's a second career after working in a hospital or a clinic or a completely different profession. For some, the right choice is to further their education through a post-backlet program. The three medical students that are joining me today, that's the route that you all three took. So that's what we're going to specifically talk about today. I want to start. Kylie, start with you. Just introduce yourself, tell us who you are, where you're from, where you went to undergrad.
SPEAKER_02Okay, my name is Kyla Guiman. I'm from Cabot, Arkansas. I actually lived here in Jonesboro until eighth grade and then ended up uh moving to Cabot and graduated from there. And then I went to Washville Baptist for undergrad.
SPEAKER_01Awesome. Caitlin?
SPEAKER_03Um, I am Caitlin Holt. I'm originally from St. Louis. I went to undergrad in at the University of Missouri, Kansas City. I've been here for about three years now.
SPEAKER_00Awesome. And how about you, Andre? Hello, everyone. My name is Andre Smith from a really small town in Mississippi called Toller Town. And I went to undergrad at the University of Mississippi.
SPEAKER_01You three all NYITCOM created a Master of Biomedical Sciences program. It's kind of a bridge program a few years ago. You all three went through that program and after completing it were accepted into our DO program, our Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine School, which obviously is the path to becoming a physician.
Why They Chose A Post-Bacc
SPEAKER_01So why did you all choose to take that post back route?
SPEAKER_03So I originally decided to do the postback master's program as kind of an opportunity to build my study skills. I didn't feel super confident in going to medical school because everybody that I knew that pursued medical school was very confident in their studying and how they were doing things. And I was like, I'm just not there yet. And I actually had a professor suggest to me to do that and kind of just like give myself an extra nudge towards being better for um pursuing a medical degree. So I ended up applying to a couple places after meeting with Dr. Saliman and Dr. LaHesse during my interview. It just kind of felt like the right calling to kind of come here and to pursue their master's program before starting their medical school.
SPEAKER_01Awesome. Kelly, how about you?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, for me, you know, I think there are a couple of hindrances sometimes that people have to getting into medical school. And I had applied twice and gotten waitlisted and I was scribing at the time. I was sure that this is what I wanted to do, but I was having trouble getting in. Um and so I heard about this program and first thought about it, but wasn't really confident that that was the best path. But then again, like Caitlin said, I met with Dr. Lahest and Dr. Slaman and felt very assured that this was the next right step and it was the next right thing that was going to get me to the goal. And, you know, I joke about taking the long way around sometimes, but it was so worth it. I'm so grateful now that I had the opportunity to complete that program because it prepared me better than anything I could have ever done.
SPEAKER_01Awesome.
SPEAKER_00We'll get into some specifics about that. Andre, how about you? So for me, I'm the non-traditional, non-traditional student because I came to the BMS program um at NYT with a master's degree. So it was the hiccups of the medical school acceptance test known as the MCAD. And I had troubles with taking that multiple times. And so um I wanted to find a way to get into medical school without facing the hurdles of the MCAD once again. And it was a perfect entryway of um coming here, you know, as everyone has said about meeting with Dr. La Hess and Dr. Saliman. Like, you can do this. Like, if you have this pursuit in your mind that you know you want to be a doctor, you don't let anything or anyone deter you away from it. And so that was my that's my story.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I've heard that from a lot of different people. It's you have the aptitude, you have the desire, you have the ability, but sometimes we have to do a couple extra things to uh prove that to people. Is that accurate?
SPEAKER_00Absolutely. And I think I'm the true testament of like coming in with the master's degree, getting another master's degree before starting medical school. I even worked two years between the two master's degrees. So the long way became the right way. It just doesn't seem that way in the moment because you think you're doing something wrong, you're comparing yourself with everyone on social media. It's like, oh, they they went straight in. And your journey is different from someone else's. And I had to, it takes the self-reflection moment to like truly realize like this is my path and it's the right way, and it's that's okay.
SPEAKER_01Well, and I was gonna ask that later. Is there a little bit of a point of humility? Like, if I'm, you know, you said if I'm gonna do this, like I'll do whatever it takes. But you know, there is a shorter path for somebody, and sometimes we do want to take that shorter path. So is that part of kind of processing that? Is there a humility element to it?
SPEAKER_03There's definitely humility in it because you'll have really great days where you wake up and you're like, yes, I'm doing the right thing just because it's taking me longer. Like I took the scenic route. I get to see all the pretty things to get to med school. But then you also wake up and you're like, well, why you kind of question whether or not you felt good enough in your first time applying or your first step and you're like, Well, is this telling me like I shouldn't be doing this? But I think the perseverance to get through that and to wake up and be like, oh, well, I'm meant to be here. It kind of gives you a bigger purpose of why you want to be a doctor because you're willing to take that long scenic route. It shows everybody around you that you're willing to put in the work to be where you deserve to be.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And you know, and then like you all, you three, there are a lot of, I don't have, I should probably have exact numbers on me, but it the the number is significant. The first, I think we're up to five classes uh from that program. So many of those students do matriculate to the DO program. So it's an opportunity. Uh, you know, hopefully you'll choose our program, but wherever you do that post back program, you get a year of audition with that medical school in addition to building up your own skills, right?
Study Skills And The Pancake Method
SPEAKER_02Yes. Yeah, absolutely. That's something, just to kind of touch on that, you know, you've been exposed to the exact material that the medical students are getting. You know, we're taught by the same professors and getting the same PowerPoint. So that in itself is a huge advantage to have that year to truly learn how to study and learn, hey, this is what we're going to be exposed to and get that foundational science down early. Because I mean, currently, I know Andre and I are second years, we're studying for boards. And I've constantly been thinking back to things I learned in that master's program or acronyms that I've made up to learn something that I've struggled with. I think about them almost every day now while I'm studying for boards, and that's you know, three years later.
SPEAKER_00So and I think that's the beauty about the post back master's programs, it kind of prevents the jump scare. You go into medical school, and this is my favorite analogy. I mentioned this in orientation, it's about the pancakes. And so let's break the pancakes down. So if you have three pancakes on Monday, and you have three pancakes on Tuesday, and you have three pancakes on Wednesday, but let's say you forgot to eat the pancakes on Monday, and you actually forgot to eat the pancakes on Tuesday, now you have three, six, nine pancakes to eat on Wednesday. What if you do that first year medical school? However, that's the purpose of the postback program. You learn to eat your three on Monday, you learn to eat your three on Tuesday. And I like to use that analogy compared to using the fire hydrant uh analysis, because yes, it may be a lot of water coming at one time, but you learn to swim. So I prefer to use the being able to digest it because if you can digest on Monday with three, digest on Tuesday, by the time exam time or quiz time comes, you're ready. And that's essentially what BMS does. It allows you, you know, I use that funny analogy, but it does the same thing. You'll learn to digest the information in bite-sized pieces because it's so much. You go from undergrad to now, you know, you've never experienced this type of volume of information. So I think that was the the beauty of BMS, truly, it really is.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, you do a lot of study skills um building up that you wouldn't get if you just went straight into that hard science curriculum.
SPEAKER_03And the faculty does a great job. Um, we start off with a summer course, and one of the things that we do within that summer's course is they teach us how to study. They teach us how to make sure that we're not passively learning. They teach us how to actively learn so that whenever we start to get that those big volume, um, that big volume of material that we're kind of prepared. We have the background knowledge to be like, okay, well, if I approach it like this, this, and this, it's gonna be a lot easier, like Andre said to digest.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I think for me too, there's no way that I would have been successful my first and second year of medical school without this program. And I know that sounds dramatic, but I really mean it. Like I needed that year of just doing the master's to learn how to study because it is way different than undergrad. And I think I had a great undergrad experience, but it does not compare to the amount of information, the complexity, all of that that you get in medical school and you know, first in the master's program. But it was because of that year that I was stretched so much and grew so much as a student that I think it has really put me at an advantage compared to some of my classmates, only because, not because of intelligence, only because I had experience and I got to work out those, you know, kinks early on versus later whenever it was too late in actual med school.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I've seen that a lot that our our students that come through our master's program specifically are amongst the highest performing. And that's not a I would think that's a correlation, causation, uh scientific relationship that we could draw there, right?
SPEAKER_00Absolutely. And I truly think it it allows you to do the self-reflections. And uh, Kyler kind of hinted at it where you you come in, and we even talked about it earlier about the humbleness that you have to bring in. Like you do not know this information, you probably do not know how to study. And that's the honest truth. And you have to come to your own senses and self-reflect and say, no, I don't. And so that's the purpose of the summer programs and starting early in the master's program. And I think that allows for the success, not just now, just not just BMS, not just in medical school, but like future tense-wise, you you learn different skills that you know you can't necessarily learn anywhere else. And so I think that's really good.
SPEAKER_01Awesome.
SPEAKER_02I sorry, I had one more thought on that. I think too, it was such a confidence builder for me. I in the beginning was struggling, you know, so much information. I didn't understand, I wasn't performing how I wanted, and proving to myself from you know, getting poured into by the different professors and leaders, proving to myself I can do this and I am smart enough to get through this was very helpful for now because I mean, I I guess I just proved to myself, you know, I am supposed to be here for a reason. And it was because of that program that that happened.
SPEAKER_01Awesome.
What The BMS Curriculum Covers
SPEAKER_01Um, from a curriculum standpoint, you talked about there is some just how to study, study skills development, but talk about the science. Like break down what you get in that master's program compared to the hard sciences and anatomy, physiology that you get in your first year of medical school. What is the curriculum of that BMS, our BMS program look like?
SPEAKER_03It is very comparable to your first year. Um, I mean, you see a lot of the same lectures, you see a lot of the same material you've had basically all the professors you'll have in your core sciences your first semester and then into your neurobox second semester. You've already seen a lot of the material and you've already built the relationships with the faculty coming into that. So it almost feels like you're pre-first year, first year. So like you go through it and like it sets the expectation of, oh yeah, this is exactly what I'm gonna see whenever I get there. But the only difference is you don't have your doctor-patient relations, you don't have your osteopathic manipulative medicine labs, you don't have anatomy labs, so it kind of takes away the anatomy.
SPEAKER_01Um, it takes yeah, but it's the core science portion of so you get some body system stuff, you get biochemistry, that kind of where you're going. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Awesome. And I think that's the beauty of it because it simulates um clinical, I mean, essentially the first two years of medical school. And so you learn it as a conglomerate. You know, when you think about undergrad, you think about I took a physiology class and I took an anatomy class and I took an immunology class. Whereas in medical school, you learn as a patient, a patient doesn't present just with one body system or just it's everything together. And I think that's the the the shock as becoming a medical student. You go from learning things in slices, whereas essentially you have to eat the whole pie and pick and choose where you so I think it's that's the difference. And it's it's truly a a really great um intro experience to medical school because you you're learning everything uh the patient presents with this. How does fever start? How would micro micro means so it's it goes on and on of how it presents, and that's the good
Research And A Bigger View Of Medicine
SPEAKER_00thing.
SPEAKER_01There's also a significant research element to the R BMS program. Tell me a little bit about that and why that's important.
SPEAKER_02I think it's important for you know, a couple years down the road, whenever you're applying to residency, that's something that a lot of programs really value is having published research. Um, for me personally, I had done bench seat research in undergrad, and that was a great experience, but I realized I didn't really love bench seat research. Um, and then in the masters, I got the opportunity to do health policy research. And that was much more my speed. Um, I actually was fortunate enough to have a publication. Um, did a paper on the retention of physicians in rural areas and looked at loan repayment programs and you know, work-life balance and what what keeps people from wanting to practice rurally. And through that, my eyes were really open about what's going on right here in our home state. And I mean, I've lived here my whole life and I had no idea. So, because of that opportunity to work with some incredible health policy professors, um, or health policy is their main focus. I had the opportunity to be published and had, you know, time to devote to research, whereas in medical school it might be harder to find the time.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. How about you guys?
SPEAKER_03So for me, I um actually met Mr. Robert Friend whenever I was in the master's program. He is somebody that works with the Delta Population Health Institute. And that is a big component of our school. And we have a lot of students that get really invested into those programs. But because of the master's program, I was getting access to the projects that they were working on from day one and like his transition to now, where like I got to see people that I met my first year here, like graduate this past week at our last week. And it's really great to just like see people being invested in our community. So for me, it was like, oh, it gave me a new reason for wanting to be a physician. It showed me like different disparities that people face in the Delta region and how it affects their health and all the things that it trails that leads them down the trail that they're on. So just kind of like it gave me a new purpose for pursuing medicine that wasn't necessarily just the science of it. So it's just really exciting to get a new perspective on things. So whenever I came into medical school, I kind of was able to hit the ground running of like, okay, well, they're doing this, this, and this, and I can follow them through this, this, and this. So whenever it comes time for me to apply to the fellowship, I've already been coursed in what they're gonna be going over and what they're gonna be researching to make the transition easier into research in medical school as well.
SPEAKER_01But again, a master's program is kind of an audition both for you and for the school. And so you got to really dive into both of you through those projects that population health and social determinants of health are really important to who we are at a medical school and kind of what you both said is, and I'm on board with that, right?
SPEAKER_03Yes, 100%.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Andre, what about you from a research standpoint?
SPEAKER_00I think it's truly important because you know, cosigning everything that they've said, it opens your eyes to the multi-faceted approach that medicine is. Medicine is not just you walk in to see the patient. Let me tell you, the the um the amount of things that happened before then, and I'm not just talking about, you know, you have to check in with the secretary, I'm talking about the approach of how we learn in medical school, how the drugs that they prescribe you happen, it allows you to realize that it's not just I have to memorize these diseases to take a test, to pass a board exam. No, everything that happened for their physician or their uh practitioner to even walk in the room happened because of some type of research. Whether it was bench research, whether it was policy research, even boiling down to what your insurance will pay for, it happened because of research. And so it allows students who probably did not experience this in undergrad to open their eyes to see medicine is more than just a white coat. It goes beyond just the white code itself, it goes beyond everything that happened before you even walk in the room and every, you know, blood, sweat, and tears that happened literally, you know, from a petri dish to um, you know, a chemical reaction of a drug. And so it's truly important.
SPEAKER_01It's the term physician scientist. Yeah. So um we we've kind of gone through these, so I don't want to reiterate ourselves, but I do want to get to a few specifics.
Who Benefits Most From The Program
SPEAKER_01Who do you all think this program is designed for? This master's program.
SPEAKER_02I think it's for anyone and everyone. My cohort, we had people in their 40s and people that had just turned 21. And I think if anything has been a hindrance to you getting into medical school, this is the thing for you. And not because you weren't good enough to get in, but because we faced different roadblocks. Each of us have had different journeys getting here, and this was the opportunity that was gonna afford me the step into you know fulfilling a lifelong dream that I've had. So I really do think it's for everyone. Oh, I 100% agree.
SPEAKER_03This is for anybody who necessarily either had a roadblock that they can't necessarily get past, or anybody who feels like they're not quite ready, but they know this is something they want to pursue, or even if it's somebody who doesn't know if medicine's necessarily for them right now, because I know somebody that went through the master's program and then was like, I don't know if I want to be a doctor anymore. And that's totally okay. But now they have that next step. They have a master's degree, and that's huge for anything that they want to pursue down the road. So I feel like it kind of just gives the answer for all the problems that you face trying to get into medical school.
SPEAKER_01And that person didn't invest four years of their time and significant financial resources. They were able to get a degree and something that'll move them forward from a career, but also that answers a tough question.
SPEAKER_03And our faculty are incredible. So they were able to help her network in the science world and kind of get her into um a PhD program and work with her down the road. So it kind of just created the relationships that you need to be successful. It helps you develop good rapport with everybody that you need to be.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, we're in medical school. We're trying to get a pipeline of students to come into us, but there it's good for you guys to speak to the other avenues that are available through this, to go into scientific research, to work in a lab, to do something else clinical beyond being a physician.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And that goes into even the idea of um the program being for students who know that there's a passion. Who knows what that passion may be, but you know it's something medicine, healthcare related. Like the passion is there. So how do we refine that? And that's who the students are for, because it's if you don't have the grit and the passion, and essentially the purpose behind what you want in your life, you're you're kind of going through life without without direction. And so it kind of pulls you in, brings you in, and allows you to navigate life, especially healthcare, um, and becoming a physician. It allows us to navigate that. And so that's what the program is for. People who, you know, have the purpose, the passion, the grid, and you know, want change.
SPEAKER_01Awesome.
MCAT Pressure And New Entry Options
SPEAKER_01You know, we've now uh this is gonna be I might put a pref uh put a note on here, an advertising statement. You know, we don't require an MCAT to get in our master's program anymore. And if you reach a certain benchmark that tells us, like you all, you reach that benchmark, you're gonna do well in medical school. We're not requiring students to take an MCAT um to get into our medical school if they complete that master's program with a certain benchmark. You guys are kind of smiling. Is that a little bit of a I wish that had been available then?
SPEAKER_02Yes.
SPEAKER_03Simple answer, yes.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02I personally, which maybe this is a hot take, but I don't think that the MCAT correlates to how you're gonna perform in medical school. I think having the opportunity to see PowerPoints and be taught like a real med student and proving that you can be successful with that is such a better gauge of if you're gonna be a successful medical student or not. So I know it's just, you know, something you have to do, but I appreciate so much, and I think that's refreshing. For people to hear, because I don't think there are a lot of programs like that in the country that I'm aware of. And so I think that's ideal.
SPEAKER_00Awesome. And that's the refreshing piece. As a student, I guess I can speak to the camera. As a student who took the MCAT six, one, two, three, four, five, count it, six, six times, don't let the test be a deterring factor that you can't be a doctor. And that's that's my hot take. That the test did not deviate me away from me pursuing my passion. If I knew I wanted to be a physician as a kid, if I knew I had multiple challenges to face, I overcame them, even the MCAD, by starting here. And so who knows? I came from Mississippi, then you know, then with the Tennessee, now here in Arkansas. Going back to the original discussion about if, you know, the long path being the right path. Who knew that I would be in Arkansas and now, you know, here thriving because of, you know, NYT, BMS taking a chance on students and not requiring an MCAT, you know, being the major hurdle for most students.
SPEAKER_01So well, and and again, it's you guys are the living example of that. The MCAT, I think, Kyle, you said it, it it's an indicative of how well um you are as a candidate, but it doesn't tell us how well you're gonna do. There are other things, your undergraduate science GPA, your ability to perform in a post back program like ours, those are the things that are the bigger proof that you can be successful in medical school.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And we've done that through through our freshman physician program at A State, which I'm sure you guys would have loved an opportunity to do about six years ago as well. So that kind of sticks.
Final Takeaways And How To Learn More
SPEAKER_01Final word what's one thing that prospective students need to know about our master's program, our biomedical sciences master program that we haven't touched on, or that you want to repeat just because it's such a good talking point.
SPEAKER_00I'll say, oh, you go. Oh, I'll say that it's transformative. I went from being a student who came in with a master's degree. I was a student who was unsure if I would make it into medical school, unsure if I had the right study strategies. And as I stated, it's transformative. It allowed me to fix study strategies, it allowed me to navigate the roads of becoming a physician in the right way. And so I keep it short and brief, but transformative is my word.
SPEAKER_02That's basically what I was gonna say. I was just thinking that the master's was life-changing and it was about taking a chance on me. And I'm so grateful now because that is what afforded me the opportunity to be a physician and to live out something that I've felt called to do since I was a little girl. So I'm so grateful that I ended up deciding to do the master's and for everything that it's it's given.
SPEAKER_03Um maybe not necessarily a word, but kind of just like for anybody that feels like they're facing the challenges of getting into medical school or they don't know and they're kind of just like going through all those hurdles right now. Look into a master's. Um I am gonna advertise, look into NYT comm's masters. That's the point.
SPEAKER_01Good job.
SPEAKER_03Um for me, it was just I bought all into this. I really I listened to Dr. Saliman, I listened to Dr. La Hess, I listened to Mrs. Burdell, I sat there and really bought into this program. And I don't think that I would be here today without it. And for me, it's I know that there's a lot of negative connotations surrounding doing a master's program. And, you know, some people may say that, like, oh, well, you had to take the long, right? But it was scenic. I had fun. I met some people that are gonna be great resources down the road. I met my best friend who is gonna be a bridesmaid in my wedding one day, and I'm an aunt to her kid. So like it formed the relationships and it really put me in a good place where like I finished my last exam of my first year of medical school today. And I don't think that without that, I would be in the position I am right now.
SPEAKER_01Awesome. That's really good stuff. Well, you know, I just want to point out a couple of names that you all threw out. Dr. LaHest, Dr. Slaman, uh uh Tony Slaman is our dire the director, the creator of this program. So this is his baby, and um he's extremely proud of all of you, and I'm sure he will be blushing as he hears you talk about him. And then Dr. Lahest works on our old Westbury campus in New York and has duplicated that program on our uh Long Island campus that that we started here in Arkansas. So those are two names I just wanted to kind of give them their props and explain who they are because we've mentioned them several times throughout this. Kyla, Kaitlin, Andre, thank you all so much for the conversation. You've been listening to the pre-med playbook podcast on the Arkansas State Media Network. We hope you've enjoyed our conversation. If you'd like to learn more about our medical school, our program, you can visit us online at nyit.edu slash Arkansas. Thanks for joining us. We'll be with you next time.