Student Doc 101: Your Guide to Thriving in Med School
Hosted by Michael Stinnett, Student Doc 101 provides a high-level briefing on the academic architecture and strategic vision behind the NYITCOM Arkansas State partnership. Featuring deans and lead faculty, the series offers an "under-the-hood" look at how a world-class medical curriculum is designed to solve the physician shortage in the Mid-South. This is the definitive source for institutional credibility, proving how the convergence of academic rigor and regional impact creates an elite pipeline for the future of healthcare.
Student Doc 101: Your Guide to Thriving in Med School
The Comfort Trap: How to Embrace the Med School Grind
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You can be driven, smart, and deeply called to medicine and still feel thrown off when med school gets uncomfortable. That’s why I sit down with three student doctors, Sam Turner, Tate Snider, and David Tiu, for an honest talk about what thriving in medical school really looks like when the workload is heavy, the learning curve is steep, and your confidence takes hits.
We start with the real stories behind their paths into medicine, then get practical about osteopathic medicine, OMM, and why palpatory skills and a strong physical exam can set you apart on rotations. We also talk about NYITCOM's mission at Arkansas State, rural health disparities in the Mississippi Delta, and what programs like the Delta Caravan and the Delta Population Health Institute (DPHI) teach you about social determinants of health and the healthcare system beyond the textbooks.
From there, we dig into the most useful stuff for day-to-day survival: the surprise that med school can actually be fun, the power of camaraderie, and why isolating yourself makes everything harder. You’ll hear how they think about efficiency vs grinding, how to “earn” time off without falling behind, and why the best hack for getting comfortable with discomfort is simply doing the work and letting practice scores guide you instead of defining you. We close with one-sentence takeaways on becoming a good doctor and staying human while you do it.
If this helped you, subscribe, share it with a classmate, and leave a review so more students can find it. What’s the hardest part of med school for you right now? @Arkansasstatemedianetwork.com.
0:00 Welcome and Goals of the Show
4:22 Why a DO Program and OMM
8:25 Mission to Improve Delta Health
14:30 What Surprises Students Most
20:21 Social Support, Discipline, and Identity
27:30 Normalizing Struggle and Building Resilience
39:07 Study Resources: Efficiency and Adaptability
41:21 Final Takeaways and Favorite Off-Switches
45:49 Closing and Listener Challenge
Welcome And Goals Of The Show
SPEAKER_03Welcome to Student Doc 101, How to Thrive in Med School. I'm Michael Stonett. I'm a medical education learning specialist with NYITCOM at Arkansas State University. And the goal of this show is pretty simple. That's why I write it down. We go inside medical school to show you what it looks like to be successful. Today, with the help of these three, we're proving that while the path to becoming a physician is long, it's hard, that you can flourish with the right effort and the right strategy. So the guests today, we've got student doctors. We've got Sam Turner, Tate Snyder, and David Chu. Tate, about to graduate, made it through. What's up? Let's go residency. Let's do it. Okay, let's get it. So thrilled to be with you today to talk about these things, to get your perspectives. And so we're gonna talk about on the student side what does success look like? But don't answer that yet. Let's start with introductions.
Three Paths Into Med School
SPEAKER_03Who you are, what brought you to med school. Sam, you're on the end. So end is the beginning.
SPEAKER_02All right. Uh I'm Sam Turner. I'm from Florida originally. Uh I grew up in a pretty big family and uh three older brothers. I think I've always enjoyed having a little bit of competition, trying to do what they're doing and match them. Uh, I think growing up, that kind of shaped me into the man I am and always wanted to challenge myself and do hard things in life. And I think that medicine is one of those jobs that is both challenging and rewarding. Uh, so that's kind of how I pursued my journey into medicine and kind of shaped who I am. Yeah. I love that. You said three older brothers. Three older brothers, yeah.
SPEAKER_03It's really hard things, just surviving it through three older brothers. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Man, I'm glad it came out in one piece.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, for sure. I bet, right? All right, Tate, who are you?
SPEAKER_01Tell us about you, med school, all that. Yeah. So my name's Tate Snyder. I grew up in Jonesboro, probably for way too long. I think it's been just right though. Uh, about 21 years. Uh, ended up staying in town for medical school. Uh, but my journey to medicine was a little bit different. Uh, you know, I didn't declare a major in undergrad until my junior year. Um, that was basically because, you know, I had a love for socializing, I had a love for RSO groups. And actually, through volunteer efforts, I found a love for medicine. Uh, so I had the opportunity to raise a bunch of money for Huntsman Cancer Institute and actually fly out to the facility. Uh, and it was there where I got to meet a lot of the people who were running uh that institute. And when I came back, I just found that there was something special in medicine. And so for me, I found a mentor in oncology and uh got to spend so much time with him and his patients and just such a unique patient population. Um, and at that point, I just knew that that was something that I wanted to pursue and walking with people through some of their hardest challenges.
SPEAKER_00Man, all right, all right, David? Hey guys, um David Shu. I grew up in Illinois. A fun fact, I actually was born in the Philippines and then moved here at the States when I was around like two years old. And then um, yeah, been in Illinois since I did spend a year there again for my third grade, but then after that, I was just back home in Illinois. Um, and then I think Tate would know this too. I grew up in a Filipino household. So me, my younger brother, uh, my two parents, and then especially with the Filipino households, um, there's a lot of nurses in the family. So I was kind of uh always surrounded by you know healthcare, hearing the conversation during parties, even at home after mom was like home at work or from work. So just being surrounded by that and like learning a lot and just you know talking about work and whatnot, um, it's really exciting. So and then that was kind of like the first stepping stone before undergrad um and like when it came to pursuing career in medicine. So yeah, and then started here, what is it last year, and then been excited since.
SPEAKER_03I love it. I love it. And I love that you have three different paths from three different people. Yeah, that's pretty cool. Uh end up in the same place, but we take a different way to get there
Why A DO Program And OMM
SPEAKER_03sometimes. Uh so NYITCOM at Arkansas State University is an osteopathic school. And uh some people may not know what osteopathic medicine means. That's not the purpose of this podcast, though. So we will leave you guessing. But what I want to ask is just like, so why osteopathic medicine? So what about the school? So, David, you start us on this one and then we'll roll around.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, absolutely. Um, so growing up, I went to my PCP. I think we started when I was like in middle school when he was a DO. So I never knew what DOs were at the time. But um, you know, during the appointments, I'd always have a lot of free time, um, especially like after workups and physical exams, and always had the extra time to ask, like, you know, what is a DO? I never knew what it was. And um, you know, hearing from my PCP, learning about, you know, the types of care they provide, was it the holistic approach that they have on patients? And then learning a little bit of the OMM was actually really exciting to learn about. And then I know for the listeners right now, I don't know if you guys have heard as well, Dr. Mike Varshofsky, really popular Instagram doc. So I think he started getting really popular on middle school as well and high school. So just seeing the kind of physician he was got me really excited and looked into NYIT. So it's actually one of the big reasons that's why I chose NYIT.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, so yeah, super, super cool.
SPEAKER_01Next up. Yeah, so you know, being from Jonesboro, I was kind of enamored at the time that NYIT was put on campus because I was an undergrad. Um, so I was just kind of getting familiar with the institution. And for me, when I figured out I wanted to pursue medicine, it was about being homegrown. Um, you know, I wanted to stay in Arkansas, I wanted to practice in Arkansas. My dream is to come back to Arkansas. And so for me, you know, the proximity to my family. Um, you know, I knew that the faculty at NYTCOM were stellar, that they were doing a great job, especially just starting the institute here. Um, and those things all spoke to me. Um, and it's something that, you know, still I'm glad I made that decision. It was the best one I've made. Awesome. Yeah, fantastic.
SPEAKER_03Sam, anything about osteopathic medicine that drew you or yeah, I had some exposure to it.
SPEAKER_02I was a medical student. I worked at an orthopedic surgeons clinic. Uh, actually worked under an allopathic uh doctor, but there were some other doctors that were osteopathic in the practice. And so I never really thought too much of it, but having some that even just knowing that there's a difference, kind of looking into it as I was applying to my medical school journey, you know, seeing the holistic approach, you see the OMM, you get a really good um uh palpatory skills in your medical school journey, which I think is big for as a physician. And uh and for me, I want to pursue orthopedics too. Um, so just getting that hands-on experience with the musculoskeletal system, I thought was really interesting.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I think that's it's really neat. And so, one of the things I guess probably clarify for those who do want to know, like osteopathic medicine does have a holistic approach to the body, right? It's kind of like the underlying the body can heal the body kind of thing, most of the time. And so the osteopaths are trained to try and figure that out. Um, as a heads up, those of you who are listening, uh, osteopathic doctors can practice any medicine that an allopathic doctor can. So if it's an MD doctor, they can practice any scope of medicine, but so can a DO. Yeah. And I think that's really important. If you're considering med school, um, you're not limited in what you can do as a DO.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. And I've got something I wanted to add to Sam's part. He's talking about the palpatory skills. Like that's huge. You know, when we go out on rotations in your third and fourth year, um, some of the ways that you can set yourself apart is a really good physical exam. And, you know, when you are a DO and you're having those OMM sessions really early in your first year, you know, you're getting comfortable with hands-on patients, you know, your colleagues or your patients at that time. Uh, but you just feel so much more comfortable. And so doing physical exams is not necessarily this huge obstacle to overcome. I mean, it is when you're presenting, but in the moment with your patients, you know, truly when you're spending that time, it's you're already a step ahead. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Real quick, can you let somebody define palpatory for us? Because we may have some listeners who are like, I'm I don't that know that word. So anybody want to give us that one?
SPEAKER_01So it's kind of what we were talking about. So it's just hands-on the patient, you know, when you're doing a touching, touching, touching. So when you're doing your physical exam, you know, you have to listen to the heart, the lungs. Um, you know, if you're concerned they have some type of fracture, you know, you're gonna palpate in that area, that palpatory meaning. Um, you're gonna feel around and make sure that everything's okay. But and you're much more comfortable with that as a DO, I feel like. Yeah, I love it. So thanks.
SPEAKER_03So uh what I gathered is palpate hands-on, touch-feel something. So I like it. Uh, that's good. So the last question in our introduction then is kind of like um is a little bit about the school.
Mission To Improve Delta Health
SPEAKER_03NYIT com at A State exists primarily to put doctors in the Delta, right? We're trying to uh increase healthcare outcomes in places where they are dire. And the mission of the com really is to improve healthcare in places that are overlooked, that are often neglected. Is there anything, does that resonate with you in any way? Because it might not. Maybe you're just like, I just wanted to get through med school. But is there any way that that kind of has inspired you or motivated you while being here?
SPEAKER_02I would say for me personally, uh I had some distant family in the area. It's kind of how I found out about the school and kind of heard, you know, online through the struggles that Arkansas and the Mississippi Delta faced with their healthcare. Um, but I'll be honest, this was the only medical school that I got into. So I didn't really have a choice as to where I would go. But I being here, living in the community and hearing from people in the community, the people that serve the community about the struggles that they go through, um, the issues they have. I think that's meant more to me along my medical journey and about the physician that I want to be, uh, the people that I want to help in the future. Um, I think it's just been really special to be here and see it for yourself as opposed to just kind of reading a mission statement online.
SPEAKER_03Sure. No, that's totally true. Thanks for sharing too. And being honest, I would have uh I wouldn't have guessed that this was like the one you got into.
SPEAKER_01I think for me, um, you know, like I said, I've grown up here for forever. So I understand that, you know, why Arkansas is one of the top-ranked stands for health disparities, you know, I've seen it. Uh, you know, we have two local, great local institutions here for health care. Um, but too commonly what you see is for people in this area, um, you know, in the small towns surrounding Jonesboro as well, you know, they'll come to Jonesboro. But what you also see is when you need a higher specialization of care, like you need a urologist or you need a cancer doctor or anything kind of in regards to that, you see a lot of people maybe go into Memphis or you see a lot of people go into Little Rock. Yeah, I mean, we're still reaching that mission by being in the Mississippi Delta region, but I think when you're really in the pits, like Arkansas and small town rural areas, what we do with the Delta Caravan, I think those are incredible things. And I think uh that the mission, I mean, it it's truly purposeful for our state. I love that.
SPEAKER_00And to kind of add on to um what Sam said, so NYIT Com here at Ace Day was also the only med school I got into. So I've been like, what was it past two years now? Um just been learning about the mission, learning more about it just you know, every day as we go. And I will give a special shout out to the DPHI program here. I know um they've done a great job, honestly, making sure we learn all the other things outside of just medicine. I know we do a lot of bookwork, we learn a lot about the sciences, but you know, something going into med school that I was really worried about was learning about like the healthcare aspect of things, right? Like how it runs, um, and just like differences with urban healthcare versus rural healthcare. And honestly, like the DPHI program has done a really good job, just making sure we have that extra like knowledge, you know, going into third year, fourth year, and beyond.
SPEAKER_03So let's dive in a second, because we've we're gonna have some listeners who heard Delta Caravan, and they're like, I don't know. A Dodge Caravan is a minivan, but what's a delta caravan and DPHI is like, okay, what are we talking about? So anyone want to elaborate on what those things are real quick?
SPEAKER_01Just yeah, yeah, I can talk about the Delta Caravan. Uh so basically, you know, we have a lot of entities in Arkansas that came together with our school specifically to uh take honestly a superpowered RV and basically soup it up with a bunch of healthcare uh instruments and tools. I mean, we can do free clinic screenings in that van. Uh, we can do general blood pressure vitals, all these great things that a lot of people in rural communities don't get. And so uh what we have is we have people at NYTCOM, Arkansas who will actually schedule these events to go out to rural communities and screen them for uh various things. They'll do their vital signs, we'll screen them for depression, um, they'll do smoke screening, alcohol abuse, anything along those lines. And uh for some people, that's the first time they ever actually get to see a doctor or some type of healthcare professional. Wow.
SPEAKER_03So this souped up RV is rolling out to these small towns in rural Arkansas and taking med students to go perform like spontaneous or like pop-up clinics for people. So that's pretty neat. It's awesome. That's pretty neat, especially in these places where they don't have a clinic, right? And things like that. So that's cool because otherwise, you may not ever catch that, you know, Joe's got this blood pressure issue that he really needs to get something done about. Absolutely. And so that's pretty cool. That's pretty cool. You mentioned DPHI. Can you tell us just a real brief a little bit about the DPHI?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, absolutely. Do it to the best of my knowledge, but um, I know they work in tandem with the Delta Caravan, and DPHI is the Delta Population Health Institute, right? And um, I know it's the extra course that we take for, I think like the first year and a half of our time here at NYT, and they just pretty much go over the ideas of just like what population health is, just teach us about the different social determinants of health and just kind of just kind of gives us a better idea of like healthcare in general. I mean, I know that sounds really broad, but it's just more of the intricacies that you know that can take place with healthcare and um better ways to just measure patients and uh yeah, just understand the system, really.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I love that. I didn't I didn't see our conversation moving in this way, but I think it's important. Like, I think a lot of people don't understand all of the reasons that our population is unhealthy. And it's easy to just lay blame on people and be like, well, you're unhealthy because you're unhealthy. Yeah, but social determinants of health sometimes are like way more like, yeah, I'm unhealthy because I make unhealthy choices, but those unhealthy choices are often the ones that are easiest for me to make.
SPEAKER_04Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_03Right. And so it's it's something else. So, anyway, don't want to get into that because then we won't talk about any of the questions that I worked so hard on. So, um, all right, let's talk about question number one.
What Surprises Students Most
SPEAKER_03Uh, what was the biggest surprise for you in med school? Something you didn't see coming. Who wants to take it first?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, um, might come as a surprise, but we were kind of talking about this before the podcast of just how fun it was. I mean, like coming into this, I was so nervous. Like, I remember, was it like for like month out from med school? I was just like, man, I don't know how this is gonna go. I hear stories about this. I've even listened to some podcasts about what you know what could entail. But and then on top of that, when orientation started, man, I was quivering. Like it was it was bad. But once we started, it was so fun. Like actually learning about you know what you prayed for, honestly. And you know, I've always prayed for this, come wanted to come to school, and you know, just to do it every day was super exciting, meeting a lot of great people here, friends, and and just being able to study what you love. I mean, I thought that was really fun. And then on top of that, I know Tay, you were going over some of the RSO stuff here. I mean, at least for my opinion, NYT does a really good job with the RSO stuff, you know, doing stuff outside of school and outside of the at least curriculum, and then um kind of integrating what you can and just doing it in a fun way. Um, and then might come as a shock. When I was uh back home at UIC, I commuted a lot. So I had like maybe three, four-hour commute almost every day to school. I think it's like, yeah, and when I came here, it felt like I had a whole extra day, like every day. Yes, I'm at the circle. If you guys know, that's like maybe a 10-minute walk. So 10 minute walk. That's not a real yeah. So I'm like, when I came here to school every day, I'd like wake up a little later, come to school, and then man, it was so nice. Just the amount of extra time I had. So being able to just utilize that, kind of relax, and do other things. I mean, I don't know. I just loved it here so far.
SPEAKER_03Man, yeah, yeah. That commute's insane. I know. Way to go. Yeah, way to go. So, David Chu, I went to med school for a break. No, I love it. It's fun, it's fun, and and you've enjoyed life, and so that's good. That's good. What about you guys? What's uh what's surprising?
SPEAKER_02I would say for me, it's how much you grow and how much you learn in such a short amount of time, and then on the other side of that is how much you don't know at the end of the day, where you're gonna learn all this information and feel like you know everything, and then immediately the next week you're gonna be humbled real quick with what you don't know.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, because there's always more to know. Yes, right. And uh and we hyperfixate on what we don't know. So if you don't know something, you're like, I don't know anything. Right. So yeah, totally get that.
SPEAKER_01What about you, Tate? I think for me, um, the camaraderie that you build with your colleagues um has been huge. And I didn't expect to have it to this degree. Um, you know, some of my best friends have been with me through some of my highest highs and my lowest lows, and they knew me for maybe a few months. Um, but when you go through med school, you know, that you always say like trauma bond, that's not that bad. But you know, you really do come out on the other side with colleagues that you're gonna have for the rest of your lives, um, people that you can always reach out to, that you can always text. Um, and you know, you had that in undergrad to a degree, but truly, when you're going through something that's to this level of difficulty with people around you who share a lot of the same values and a lot of the same passions, it's a really powerful thing.
SPEAKER_03Man, I love that. Um, yeah, so just the relationships that you have the opportunity to build. Well, I think some people miss that because they isolate themselves, right? Like, do we see that in med school too? Like, some people don't get the fun because they isolate themselves, they don't build the relationships because they isolate themselves, and then they think they're the only ones struggling with failure because they isolate themselves. So, like, seems like maybe you three didn't do that. You're like, I'm not going to now I'm gonna do my thing and I'm gonna get my work done, but I'm not gonna be by myself. Is that accurate?
SPEAKER_00Is that something that's a really good way to put it, honestly?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, super cool. You have to have like a level of discipline with it. I think you know, when it's time to study, it's time to study. But what a lot of people forget is you have to maintain a sense of like you have to have self-help. I mean, you really have to put yourself first in some situations, and that includes maybe making a phone call on your break for five minutes to your friends who are out of the state, or you know, maybe you know, you're not gonna have a productive study group, but you've already studied well enough into the day that you can afford to, you know, joke around for 30 minutes. Like it's important to have discipline and maintain those balances.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, that's that's so good. Like, if you have discipline when you're supposed to be working, then you earn time off. Yeah, absolutely. And that's what I try to tell students is like, man, just earn it. So I was working with a student uh yesterday on uh some prep, and he was, I could see him on his video, and he's like, Man, I look right out here. There's a pond. Go fishing in this pond. I'm so like, I just want to go fishing in this pond. And I'm like, well, then like earn it. And so this morning I get in, check my email, and he sent me a couple of pictures of some catfish. He's like talking about that fishing, right? And I'm like, You did it, let's go! Like, man, get the time off. Uh, because uh you'll regret it if you don't. Like, I haven't seen someone overwork and overperform at the same time. That's I've seen overwork, underperform.
SPEAKER_00It kind of like tapers off, especially if you just start pushing yourself too much.
SPEAKER_03So yeah, which is a surprise. Yeah, yeah, I think, right? Because we often assume if I do more, I do better.
SPEAKER_01Uh isn't there like a curve we learned, like the York Dotson curve or something for our MCAT? Does that just like vaguely come to y'all's mind where it's like the maximum amount of effort, but you still get the same result? Is that am I crazy? No, you're not.
SPEAKER_03But here's what's funny, dude. 24 hours ago, I was using AI to create some stuff. I was I create these test trackers and simulation tools and things like that. And it came up with following York's Dodson law or whatever. And I'm like, I've never heard of this, and I didn't get time to study it. And here you are bringing it up now. Is that what it's called though? So you're either AI and you're not really here with us, or that's a thing. So feel free, somebody look it up, drop it in the chat if we have chat feature. And um, York's Dodson. I don't know.
SPEAKER_00You can see it on the Instagram shorts, but maybe that's not what it's called, but I've seen the graph.
SPEAKER_03I know there's a graph. No, it makes sense. Yeah, it makes sense. You guys familiar with the Dunning Kruger effect? No, yeah. So tell us about uh we talked about it a little bit, yeah. Right? So it's like you think you know more than you do know, basically. It's like when you don't know very much, but you feel like you know a lot, it's that's the Dunning Kruger effect. And um boy, that gets us sometimes. There's also a reverse of that, yeah, where you aren't willing to admit you know some stuff, no confidence, but you do know it. Yeah. And so there's uh there's I don't remember the name, I think it's Eisenhower's quadrilateral thing, where it's like uh high confidence, high competence, low confidence, low competence, and there's all these different spots in that. So it's pretty cool, but those are neat ideas there.
Social Support Discipline And Identity
SPEAKER_03Um, what would you say is like when a student is thrown off by uh the isolation, maybe they're a little bit too isolated. They they thought med school would be more fun for them. Like, are there any ways that they could like how do we adjust? What would you say?
SPEAKER_00I think first thing that comes to mind really is I mean, you're gonna be studying either way, so just really coming to school. I mean, just seeing everyone there, I mean, it's it's always a great like first step because eventually you lead to conversations and then my breakup, like that isolation that student might be feeling. Because honestly, I remember like, was it first week of med school? I was like, because this is also the first time I moved out, lived outside of home. So I felt like really isolated that first week just because I didn't know what to do. And then, you know, first step I took was just to go to school and then I started meeting people, and then from there it kind of took off. So I think that's the first thing that comes to mind.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, so in your In your independent study time, you chose to be on campus. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Or no, I mean just during the yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. So during the independent study, like the unstructured time when you can study, you were like, let me go be around humans. Right. Which also means then to Tate's point, you probably had to have discipline. Because now that I'm around humans, I still have to study. But I definitely see how that could value that could add some uh some value in camaraderie that you mentioned and just having some of the fun that you mentioned. Because if you never get to know people, uh you'll feel isolated and um, but you will be isolated. Uh anything else to add to that? Is there like another thought?
SPEAKER_02I would say for me, I probably did isolate more the first year of medical school, um, just with the priority of okay, I'm here to work, I'm here to focus. And I did go to school, you know, I was at school almost every day, but I wouldn't socialize very much. I was very dedicated to my study time. Um, and then kind of as you progress, and that's kind of my shift in medical school is from going crazy hard work ethic to kind of dial iting in, dialing it into more efficiency in my studying. And that's kind of allowed me the free time to manage socializing and also getting the priorities and the goals and achievements that I want at the same time.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_02So I I think it can be a little bit of a shock when you come into medical school and you're like, oh my gosh, I have all this information I need, I need to know. I don't have time to have friends or play basketball or play golf or do the things I love, which for me is sports. But you know, you kind of fine-tune it along the way and change your tactics in medical school. Yeah, and then you might get to do some of those things.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah, right. And that's really neat. Like, um, I was talking to some students last week, and I was like, um, once you define, once you identify the things that you use to define you, like those are your this is who I am, like you have to keep those during med school. Like, because you're still going to be you when you're done with med school. And I see students lose themselves. Like if the gym was important to you before med school, go to the gym. Keep doing that because that's an anchor thing for you. If like your spirituality, if like church or something was in was important to you before med school, keep that because that's an anchor for you. People lose themselves because it's hard, it's fast, and I think that's a surprise that people they didn't think they would, right? You didn't think I'll never quit going to the gym. You get three weeks into med school and biochem is crushing your soul. You're like, I don't do it, I don't know where the gym is. I gotta give up the gym and I can't sleep, you know. So yeah, that's yeah.
SPEAKER_02I think med school has a lot of measurables that weigh weigh on you. And with those measurables, you kind of forget the immeasurables. And I think that's where osteopathic medicine is great because a lot of it is holistic, you know, maybe stuff you can't measure, but you can see the lifestyle changes in your patients and kind of talk on that and speak to them in that way, as opposed to talking about a 10 milligram drug that you're trying to prescribe them or whatever.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, for sure. Tay, can you add any thoughts on like third or fourth year experience for us?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Uh I love what Sam said about efficiency. Um, you know, for me, you know, I was blessed to do pretty well my first and second years. Uh, when I went to my clerkships, I had gone alone. So I moved to Memphis by myself. Uh, left my wife here. I was freshly married, uh, left my mom here, who I was, you know, taking care of a little bit. Um, and I had to make the decision that I was gonna be, I wasn't gonna work, I was gonna be more efficient. I wasn't gonna work as hard as what I had been doing. I don't like saying that because it's not true. I worked very hard, uh, but I was gonna be present, um, I was gonna be efficient, and uh, I was really gonna rely on those two things. And what I noticed is I started doing those things. I was efficient, I would go home more, I was making sure to prioritize my family. And I told my wife that. I said, I'm gonna set you and my mom as my priority, and school is gonna come second. And that was the first time that happened two years. Um, you know, I still made really good grades. Um, I was blessed to do very well. I got into my dream residency program. And um, I think for me, when I get to look back at that, I realized that it was all worth it. Um, being able to spend that time with the with my friends in Memphis who were there as well. It was, it was, it was awesome. And it made the rotation so much more enjoyable. Um, you know, when you can be present on your rotation, you learn so much more than just sitting in front of a computer at five in the morning before the rotation doing 300 Anki cards as fast as you can. So it's that that's what that's probably what I would add.
SPEAKER_03Just be present, just be present and find efficiency and uh efficiency that works. That's so good. Be present. We need more of that. Man, I'm really hoping that there are some current med school students who are hearing this and thinking, I can have a life. Maybe I'm doing it wrong. I can have fun. I how do I how am I present? That's that's good stuff. Um, I was gonna ask, uh, tell you, if one of you has just a burning desire to answer this question, go with it. But if not, then we'll skip it. Is there anything you can do to be more prepared for day one of med school? Anybody got like a thought like, yeah, do this?
SPEAKER_00Um, I actually so my brother's actually coming here next year. All right, what's up, brother? Congrats, yeah. Appreciate it. And um, I remember like telling him like every time is because he's worried about like starting and kind of that same anxiety that I had coming into it. But I keep telling him, like, the most important thing you want to have coming into it is at least just getting your mind and body ready, honestly. And when I say that, you don't need to go crazy, run marathons, or do anything crazy, but it's just making sure you're like at your peak before starting, at your happiest, and just at your healthiest. Because honestly, like once school starts, there's gonna be a lot of growing pains and just all that time to adjust. And it might take away a little bit at uh, you know, some of your lifestyle and some of your hobbies. So just making sure you're really like peaked before starting, that way you can kind of be a lot more smooth uh when you when you transition over. But I think that's the first thing that comes to mind.
SPEAKER_03Um, yeah. No, I like that. Yeah, I like that. Get your mind and body ready. Absolutely, yeah. Yeah, because it's gonna be hard, so be ready for it. Yeah, I love it. Um, would you say, so I guess let's just make
Normalizing Struggle And Building Resilience
SPEAKER_03sure. Med school does have struggles, right? It's built into the system. So, how can or is it possible maybe for students to grow through the struggles rather than give up or hate the struggles? Like, how can we just embrace struggle to grow? Is that possible?
SPEAKER_01I think so. Um, you know, you're gonna be so uncomfortable, and that's the biggest part. And I think one thing that I had to consistently remind myself, and I did this a lot in undergrad when I made the decision to go into medical school because it was gonna be a lot just for me to apply so late in my undergrad was um that growth happens when you're uncomfortable and amongst discomfort. And I think it's important to have that mindset because when you're struggling every day and you're uncomfortable every single day, you know, that too will pass and you're growing in the process. It's not a bad thing to experience discomfort, it just means that you've never done it before. Um, and I think when you realize that you can approach things from a different angle and say, hey, like I'm growing and I'm gonna be better at this tomorrow and then the following week. And it's just gonna get easier and easier, and it's gonna make me be the best physician that I can be in a few years.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it's not that you're not good at it, it's that you've never done it. That's that's pretty smart right there. Somebody make a t-shirt. Like, that's good. What about you guys? Uh, how do you grow through the struggle rather than like shrink up? Yeah. Um did you want to go first?
SPEAKER_02Or I can. Okay. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00I wasn't sure if you were about to say something that's fine.
SPEAKER_02I I was breathing in thinking about it. I I think honestly, for me, and this may resonate with some people more than others. I think the hardest part about medical school was getting in. I think if you get into a medical school, you have all you have everything you need already. You have the worth ethic, you have the intangibles, you're plenty smart. It's just about doing it. And so for me, it was my journey to medical school that feels harder than actually being here. Because now that I'm here, I'm loving every day, you know. And it's not, I'm not saying med school is easy. You got to go to work, you gotta put in the time and the effort, and you gotta learn the information, but you're you're fully capable of doing that once you're here. I think you just gotta put your mind to it and and do it.
SPEAKER_03I love that. I I try to tell that to students, but I've never been in med school. But I have a firm belief that every person who is in med school can be successful. Yeah. Will be, but that's not because they couldn't be. There was something else that was at play, whether it was a life thing that kept them from being successful, or is it just the maybe a discipline issue or distraction issue issue. Or that first time you fail, you know, it's the Mike Tyson thing, like you got a good plan until you get punched in the face, and it's like that first time you fail, you are not able to embrace, like, mmm, now what? And you begin to identify yourself by that lowest bar, that lowest of performance. So that's that's important. All right, man. I'm gonna skip you, David though. So back to uh what are your thoughts? How do we get through that struggle?
SPEAKER_00Um, to kind of add on and piggyback off what Tate was talking about earlier, um, I always see like the discomfort, uncomfort like as just kind of a sign or like a signal telling me like, okay, this is something you need to work on, or more so, um yeah, more so just a sign of like something I need to work on, just because again, like when we're just learning so much material and it's kind of like hard to sift through everything and understand like which stuff you don't know and what stuff you do. And like whenever I start getting uncomfortable learning something, I kind of see that as a sign as like, okay, like this is something I definitely need to focus on and and um kind of dial in just because again, like once I start getting a little bit more comfortable with material, I start to feel myself slack a little bit and from there waste a little bit of time. So I kind of just use that as more of my um, like I said, sign just to really understand where I'm at and just kind of pivot from there.
SPEAKER_03I love that. You guys uh you there's a phrase that was coined by um I think it's Bjork or Brown, one of those folks. They coined the phrase desirable difficulties. Have you heard that phrase before? So in learning, it means that when it's uncomfortable, that it's better. The the idea behind desirable difficulty is that difficult learning is durable learning and that you grow through resistance. But it's the same as strength training, right? Like you don't get stronger by lifting the same weight over and over again. You get stronger by building your resistance. And that's what I work when I'm working with students. I'm like, hey, listen, let's do some first order questions. Sure. Yeah, why not? Okay, now let's do some harder questions though, because we've got to get to resistance. But it's hard because this is comfortable. Who doesn't like being these chairs are comfortable? Who doesn't like being I would rather be comfortable? And so there's uh there's an element there, but I think that's so good. So you all three hit on something, and it's like, wow, this was built in. Um, is there a hack for getting okay with discomfort? Like, is there a way to do that? Like, that's humans listen, please. Like, this is important. How do we do that?
SPEAKER_02I would say you just do it. And that's that's kind of touches on the point of like, is there anything you can do before medical school? You know, are you are you gonna sit down for the summer before med school and study a bunch of anatomy? No, because it's not really gonna help you. I mean, once once you get into medical school, you're just always at that constant state of struggling and trying to keep up with the material. Um and so just doing, you just have to do it. I mean, there's no other way around medical school other than going through all the information, taking all the questions and tests. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03So the idea there is like it's going to be uncomfortable. So you either go through it and learn to deal with it, or you don't make it. Yeah, that's my thing. Is that what you're saying? Like, like, listen, if you're gonna climb this rock wall, you've got to climb the daggum wall. Yeah, or you didn't climb the wall. So you're gonna have to be uncomfortable. Okay, I like it. The hack, do it. Anybody else?
SPEAKER_00I'll be honest, I have to second that. I mean, like the only way you're gonna learn, again, like Sam said, is just you have to do it. Because I know for some students that are like looking into prepping before school, like oftentimes, like I tell my brother this all the time is you're gonna learn a lot more, but just waiting and then waiting until school starts. Because again, like once school starts, you really have to learn the skills of kind of like working under pressure, working and like learning new things. Because again, when you come into school knowing everything, you might slack off a little bit, not like you know, not build the good habits early on. And by the time you reach material that you don't know, I mean, who knows what could happen, you know. So that's something that comes to mind. But again, just going back to the point, just really doing it. I mean, I know it sounds bad, like maybe just brute forcing through uh through all that stuff, but yeah.
SPEAKER_03Well, again, it's the idea of embrace the discomfort because it's going to be uncomfortable. Yeah, it goes back to get your mind and body ready. Like by mind, it doesn't just mean like be rested, it means like have the internal resilience to persevere, the grit to work through the challenge. And uh man, we do hard things. Humans do hard things all the time. Like, man, we drive through traffic in these cities that you're from Chicago, right? You had a three-hour commute. Oh, like that's a hard thing that most of us are like, what? Who wouldn't do that? So, what about you, Tate? You got like a hack?
SPEAKER_01I think for me, it's just like it's like a mental component, it's just knowing that it's normal. Um, it's normal to be uncomfortable. Uh and you know, that's it's easy to say that now when you're not in a super uncomfortable situation. Um, but I think when you can apply that consistently consistently, you know, it makes it makes the process better. I mean, when you get in the third and fourth year, you know, you're gonna be on sub-internship opportunities basically where you're auditioning for a program, like you're gonna have to be in uncomfortable situations, you're gonna have to put yourself out there, you're gonna have to have conversations you've never had, you're gonna have to present in front of 40, 50 people, you're gonna lead lectures, you're gonna do things on the daily where it's like, oh man, like this is giving me the jitters. Um, but at the same time, it like I said, it's just preparing you to be the best version of yourself. So uh just always reminding yourself of that mental component.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. So I think what you're saying is, and I would want people to hear is like prep for the struggle. Just know that the struggle's coming, but it's normal. Everyone is in the struggle. So when you feel like you're the only one in the struggle, remember, no, this is normal. If people aren't struggling, they're either ignoring it or they're lying. Right? Is that what we would say? Because definitely. Even if you're crushing med school and getting 90s on the exams, probably not all of your practice tests were 90s. Like some of your practice tests are probably like, ooh, yeah, better work on that. But you know what I see? Here's what I see. I see students who do a practice test and they'll get like a 30%, so they'll never do another one.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Because the judgment was too much. And those students struggle and struggle. They didn't grow from the struggle, they didn't normalize the struggle. Boy, that's something. You guys are smart. Uh, way to go.
SPEAKER_00I will add one thing real quick to end this on a little bit of a lighter note. Um, what like as you progress, it does get a lot easier, honestly. Like, I remember that first that first comp that we took. I was more nervous taking that than the MCAT, honestly. Yeah, like I remember opening up that iPad, shaking, because I'm like, if this goes bad, I don't know what could happen. Right. Um, like going into these past few comps, I think this like past year, honestly. I mean, going into it, just it's so much more comfortable going in now. And uh like open an iPad, just take it as another day, because again, like you're gonna have to do this. You might as well just get comfortable doing it and then yeah, doing the best you can and learning from it, yeah. So there's light at the end of the tunnel.
SPEAKER_03There is light at the end of the tunnel, and sometimes you just make light where you are in the tunnel, right? It's like, man, you just don't have to wait for it at the end either. You're like, you can do it now. I'm wondering, is there something to like sometimes you have to work a little harder that first semester and establish a foundation, but now you can build on that foundation and you can build a lot faster than you can lay foundation. Is there something to that or am I just making stuff up?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean, I'd say I definitely agree. I mean, once you have that foundation set, I mean, you get really like, I don't want to keep bringing up the word again, just comfortable with that. Just because again, like just having that idea of having a really good foundation set and knowing that like everything's all good moving forward, it just makes you like makes it a lot easier to just build good habits and you know, just building on top of that. So yeah, okay.
unknownCool.
SPEAKER_03I like that.
SPEAKER_02Would you guys, yeah, ditto or would yeah, I would say like one of the hardest parts about med school is the amount of resources that you have available to
Study Resources Efficiency And Adaptability
SPEAKER_02you. And there's so much information out there. What do you use? Because we talked about efficiency. You can't possibly read every textbook, go through every question bank on the topics that you're learning that week. You kind of have to pick and choose. And so it's just kind of finding that resource that works best for you and finding your process, what works best for you, and then just applying that and trusting that that's gonna pay out in the end. Yeah. But there's a little bit of a trial and error, I think, in the first semester.
SPEAKER_03A little trial and error at the beginning, right? But once you find it, lock in. Yeah, yeah. And and do the things. And by lock in, it doesn't mean don't adjust, right? Right. Like we're adaptable, we're flexible, we're making tweaks here and there, but we're letting the diet data tell us what to do and stuff. So yeah, I like that.
SPEAKER_01I struggled with that actually on the transition between first and second year. Uh so like I went into med school, like I knew how I studied. I'm an early morning riser. I have to see things a bunch of different times. So my study schedule is structured to where I see things three to four times before I even watch like the actual lecture video, which is insane for a lot of people. Um, when we moved into, you know, from like the foundations of medicine into like principles of osteopathic, you know, where you're starting to get cardiovascular and like GI and all these different things, you know, I noticed I was trying to take a little bit more of a shortcut. So I changed the foundation that I had for studying and it was not working. Like the first few weeks, and I was like, all right, like this is this is not going as well as I thought. My my practice scores are not where they normally are. It's not normal. It's because I was trying to take a shortcut. And I think the important thing is to remind yourself, though, is like you have to maintain a sense of adaptability in med school. Like, yeah, you have great foundation, but within that foundation, you're also okay with making small changes that benefit you over the long term. And once I kind of went back and made smaller adjustments, like I was right back to where I was. So yeah.
SPEAKER_03No, that's good. That's it. Like, don't get stuck, but do get focused.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, don't get stuck and just continue doing the wrong thing. Yeah, that's the bad, that's the bad way of doing things.
SPEAKER_03That's like if it's if it's not working, don't do more of it. No, right? Like, let's let's move on. Okay, so we've got to wrap this thing up. And
Final Takeaways And Favorite Off Switches
SPEAKER_03so I end with two things. Every episode we ask this question. Uh what's the one key takeaway, one sentence maybe that you would leave the listeners with? Like, this is the word from Tate Snyder right here. This is Sam Turner said this. David Chu said, hmm. So chew on it for a little bit, think about it for a little bit. What's the what's the one statement you want people to go away with? Like, if there's a snippet on social media, this is it.
SPEAKER_02I'm gonna pawn a quote off of Nick Saban. Um I'm not a big Bama fan, but I You could be a Saban fan without being a Bama fan. I'm a Saban fan. He did a lot of great things, and I think that that's respectable. But he said, everybody that goes to medical school is smart. Everybody that graduates from medical school is called the doctor doesn't mean that you're a good doctor. And so I guess my quote and take on that is that there's a lot more to being a good person and being a good doctor than just doing well on your test course, passing the exams, and graduating. So if you want to be a good person, good doctor, you got to do something else, go the extra mile. Yeah, I love that.
SPEAKER_03It's more than a test. Yeah. I don't know how I can match that.
SPEAKER_04That was that was way too good.
SPEAKER_01That was way too good. Can you guys cut us in front of no we're gonna need an edit?
SPEAKER_00No, but then you want to go.
SPEAKER_01I I would just say med school is 90% work ethic, and I'd say about 10% intelligence. I think anybody can do it.
SPEAKER_03Boy, boy, boy. That's something. Take that away. 90% work ethic, 10% how smart you are. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00My take really is just make the most of it, honestly, just because I mean, you guys heard me talking about how fun it was like earlier uh in this podcast, but I mean, you're never gonna have a time like this again, honestly, especially like first two pre uh pre-clinical years. I mean, I talk to my friends about this all the time. Like, we're actually gonna miss it, just because again, like you're never gonna have this much time to study, have fun with your friends, you know, once you're done. So I don't know how third, fourth year is gonna be. I'm sure you had a great time. So, you know, just make the most of it.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, you will, but it's a lot harder when you still have to study on top of like a full-time job schedule and stuff like that, right? So, um, all right. So the final thing is more fun stuff. So there's no like nobody's judging. Well, there are gonna be judgments made, but this is just what's your binge? Do you have a TV binge, Netflix, books, podcasts like YouTube? What's your binge? Like, what's the thing that when I have time, this is the thing.
SPEAKER_00I got two two things. Two things. I'll drop data real quick. So um YouTube is the big thing. Um is there a person though? Like a particular thing. Yeah, no, it's the biggest thing that comes to mind. I watch a lot of like tennis highlights, and if I can keep up with tennis, but uh one thing is I'm really into video games, so I watch a lot of like competitive play. So whatever game I'm into, just watch a lot of that in my free time. And then when it comes to the shows, it's really anything that comes up or what's really like popping. I'm into animes and then um recently started the pit. So it's really good. Who doesn't watch the pit? I probably shouldn't have started it. I watched, I think I started it last lock the week before the comp. I don't know how, but I finished two uh two seasons for comp. I shouldn't have I know how you just get to play.
SPEAKER_01It's good, right? Yeah, future ER doctor. I didn't know about that.
SPEAKER_03I was talking to a student on his ER rotation, and he's talking about this crazy shift. And I was like, was it like the pit? He goes, dude, you have no idea how much it was like an episode of the pit. Oh my god. So I love the yeah. So what about you guys? Any binges?
SPEAKER_01Uh I think for me, my answer, my wife's gonna love hearing it. I really prioritize time with my wife. So, like, especially in this period of time, like I'm making sure we're watching TV together. We don't have a set show. We love House Hunters International, we like the 90-day fiance, all the TLC specials. Uh, and then also, too, my big thing right now is uh I'm a huge stock nerd. Um, like I love like business financials and business analysis. If I didn't do med school, I was gonna do that. So I'm I've been souping up my portfolio for residency and preparing it for beyond.
SPEAKER_03I love it. I love that. Got any binges over here?
SPEAKER_02Uh I play some Fortnite with my cousin on occasion. Yeah. I'll hop on the sticks. There you go. I'd say that or uh go play some golf, beat a bunch of golf balls.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I love it. And also love that you talked about how you didn't get to do some of those things in first year, but now golf is one of the things that you're doing. Yeah. And so that's super cool.
Closing And Listener Challenge
SPEAKER_03Well, thanks so much for being on the show today. I have some things I'm supposed to say. So let's run through that. That brings us to the end of Student Doc 101. So thanks for coming on. Thanks for talking with us about how do you succeed? Is it possible? How do we get through the struggle? How do we embrace discomfort? Uh, so if you're listening and you've made it this far in the show, then you should probably subscribe, you should probably like, you should probably follow, you should probably share with your friends and family and peers. Uh, thanks so much. Appreciate you guys. Thank you. Thank you.