What Happens When You Wrestle For Love Not Money

We’re back after eight months away, and it feels like sliding into the front seat of the same old car, only now the road is longer and the stories hit harder. Brian’s journals drag us straight into the territory-era grind: taking a booking for $25, learning what freedom in a small promotion can do for your character work, and realizing fast that “professional wrestling training” also means learning how to survive the travel, the locker rooms, and the personalities. If you’re into Smoky Mountain Wrestling history, old-school indie wrestling, and how the business actually worked before everyone had a camera and an opinion online, this ride is for you. 

We talk through first connections with Bo James and why Southern States Wrestling became a place to experiment, then jump into the whiplash of early main events with Dirty White Boy and the pressure of making a gimmick like Kendo feel consistent night after night. From there, the map opens up to USWA Memphis, where bookings can happen on a phone call, pay can be shockingly low, and your first night might include a blindfold battle royal because that’s just how that territory does business. We also get into the pre-streaming ecosystem that raised us: wrestling magazines, PWI rankings, and the handful of VHS clips that made certain names feel mythical. 

The conversation keeps widening into culture shifts that changed wrestling forever, from when the groupie scene cooled off to how the internet cracked kayfabe and reshaped crowds. Along the way we hit Nashville Fair communal crowds, the reality of getting fired, working Onita with no shared language by leaning on universal fundamentals, and the art of getting heat and leaving town with it. And yes, Brian tells the full story of wrestling Terrible Ted the bear in a bar, which sounds impossible until you realize that’s exactly what the territory days were like. 

If you enjoy these road stories, subscribe, share the show with a wrestling fan, and leave us a review so more people can find Making The Towns and The Ride Home.

Transcript

ack After Eight Months

SPEAKER_03 0:01

I am your champion. Oh man, that's classic. I love it. I'm gonna climb that ladder of success all the way to the top. Welcome everybody. This is the ride home with Brian Logan in Dallas Danger. Welcome back. It's been a while since we've done this, but we are here talking about episode four, Making the Towns. At this time, let me bring in my colleague and best friend, Dallas Danger. How you doing, Dallas?

SPEAKER_00 0:41

Hello, hello. I'm doing well. Uh the episode Months in the Making.

SPEAKER_03 0:46

That's right. About eight months since we uh came up with this whole scenario to redo this. We just recently started the podcast back. This is the first time that we'll be recording the ride home uh after eight months, and it feels great to be back.

SPEAKER_01 1:03

It really does. I'm happy we're doing this again. I think um, you know, I think we both got a lot out of it, and it just the way things kind of happened. I think the time is right for us, and it's um, you know, I think it's important at the outset to sort of talk about and celebrate this is now a free show. Uh, this is no longer behind a paywall. We're sort of done with paywalls, and we're just kind of giving everybody as much content as we can without trying to uh make a buck.

SPEAKER_03 1:34

Absolutely. We're just here uh sharing our stories with you. And uh the concept of the show is making the towns. I have kept journals for over 30 years, and I'm going through them match by match, talking about the uh towns, the opponents, and the money and the miles. And this is kind of like the ride home from the show. So that uh usually typically on a wrestling adventure, you get back in the car after the show's over and you you talk about the show and you analyze and you kind of rebook the territory. So that's sort of what we do in a QA uh fashion here. So, Dallas, I'm gonna uh turn it over to you and see what you got.

hy The Show Is Free

SPEAKER_01 2:15

Yeah, I've got a lot. Uh you prefaced episode four of Making the Towns by saying there was a lot of ground to cover in one episode, and boy was that ever the truth. Um uh I mean even got off the sort of chronological path, so to speak, and and and told some great stories. So um I I think the the well, the first thing that I've got a note on, I'm gonna try to go chronologically, I'm sure we'll skip around. But um early on in this episode, you talked about your first real interactions with our uh good friend Bo James, and I just would I just kind of want to know, we'll we'll talk about Bo so much as we go along through this journey. Um but what about your first impressions of Bo? I mean, he was he was young like you were at the time, and really just uh I'm sure as green as you were in a lot of ways. So what what were those first interactions like with uh with Bo?

SPEAKER_03 3:21

Well, I uh originally met Bo at a convention in Nashville, but I didn't actually meet him. It turned out that he was in the pictures I took of Jimmy Valiant at the convention. So I had seen him before, but I get a call one day, and uh, you know, this is this is Bo James, and I run Southern States Wrestling, and I want you to come in. I want to book the horn at the TV star. And uh I quoted him uh$75, and he said, I don't pay that. And I said, Well, okay, call me when you do, and we hung up. And then I got to thinking, well, you know, maybe I could do it for less. So I called him back and said, Well, what can you pay? And he said,$25, and I said, Okay, I'll do it. But when I got there, I realized that we could pretty much do whatever we wanted to do, that Bo gave us the freedom to explore our characters, our moves, our psychology, everything like that. So where I had to be uber uber professional at some of these other shows, I could try out new stuff, and if I messed it up, it wasn't gonna be the end of the world. And we went out there and we had fun just you know, I I think it was every two weeks. And uh it just it was a blast, and I just love Bo James to death. Um we uh we have argued like brothers and we have hugged like lovers. Not really, but we have we have hugged together and we have fought together, and you know, he's he's been on these miles with me. There's just a lot of miles between the two of us.

SPEAKER_01 5:08

Absolutely, and and I I think uh shout out to Bo and to Southern States Wrestling because to this day it's still a place you can go and just have some fun. Um the the group of guys there is great and the the vibe is always great there, and so that's why uh I think you know, uh not to speak for you, but I think that's why we still show up there uh when we do, is because you know, it's not like you said, it's not about buttoned up professionalism, it's about um doing what you love and and having a good time and and being around people that feel the same way.

SPEAKER_03 5:50

Absolutely. I mean that family, uh I ended up being on TV there in Kingsport for 17 straight years. So, you know, every week on their TV, one one form or another for 17 years. And we've just it it's my family away from family.

eeting Bo James And Southern States

SPEAKER_01 6:09

Yeah, for sure, for sure. So moving along here, uh just a quick aside, I'm glad you learned your lesson traveling with Tracy. Um it didn't take long to learn your lesson about you know eating, getting food.

SPEAKER_03 6:24

Yeah, I mean, he'd let me starve to death. You know, y'all want some of this? No, Tracy, it's okay. We're just having eaten in weeks. It's all right.

SPEAKER_01 6:35

So another another person uh that that you've already talked about um on this show, and I'm I'm sure we'll talk about more as we go along, but uh what what were your first interactions, or did you even have really any interactions um with Jack Desnak Roberts during his brief time with Smoky Mount?

SPEAKER_03 7:00

Well, I uh we were oh gosh, we I'm trying I want to say Clinton, Tennessee. Does that sound do you have that in your notes where we were?

SPEAKER_00 7:11

I do not.

SPEAKER_03 7:12

Okay, well, I think it was Clinton. I think it was and and no, it was Oak Ridge, because it was at the college at Oak Ridge, and that's where the Manhattan Project was, and all the people have radiation, and we were joking about how they're all gonna glow if we turn the lights out. So we were inside this locker room, it was kind of like a makeshift room underneath the bleachers. I mean, it was huge, there was a lot of stuff there. Um, and then it opened up into little tinier dressing rooms, and Jake went kind of over and under the steps on the far right, so everybody else was over on the left. I went over and met Cheryl was with him, and I met him, shook his hand, and then said hello, and then kind of just walked away and observed, and then I watched him smoke crack. Which was the first time I ever saw anybody smoke crack.

SPEAKER_01 8:10

All right. Well, that's I I don't know what I was expecting you to say. I mean, honestly, I think I think my expectation was you'd say, yeah, we we we had niceties, but he kind of kept to himself and he wasn't around for long. But yeah, I definitely wasn't expecting that. Yeah, quite a story.

SPEAKER_03 8:28

Right. I mean, it's not every day you get to see that happen and Cheryl sit there pissed off because he's doing it.

SPEAKER_01 8:35

Right. Right. So that kind of um so that you you you talked about being around the book physically, like like being close by because when somebody gets fired, you're right there, and and now all of a sudden you're kendo and you're in the main event with Dirty White Boy, and you're I mean, at this point, you're less than a year into the business, and and here you are main eventing in this territory with all uh we talked so much on this show through the first few episodes about this group of guys that that you were sort of sitting under the learning tree of. And so um, what was the atmosphere like when you got that spot? I mean, surely there wasn't any animosity towards you or anything like that, and what just sort of take me through, you know, getting getting that opportunity, you know, and then making the most of it. And what what what all was kind of going on in your head? And um what were you learning? Who were you leaning on other than White Boy? Just give me everything you can about those first opportunities to be in the main events.

SPEAKER_03 9:59

Well, working with him was really a night off. I know that's cliche, but it really was. So I wasn't that nervous. Um being in the main events, it I I really didn't have time to think about wow, I'm really in the main event, because I didn't really feel like I was in the main event because I was some other character. But the first night he pretty much beat me up. I think I I think I karate chopped him once, maybe, and then he hit me with the chair, and then he wanted to see what I could do, and basically just job me out, make sure I don't hurt him. But then the next night we would um I'd get to do one thing. Then the next night after that I'd get to do two things, and then before you know, we were having a real match, and he was letting me beat him up, and that was really cool because now we went from you know, oh, this is just filler space, to actually having a competitive main event matches, and he showed me how less is more in the main event.

SPEAKER_01 11:07

Yeah, yeah, and and it you know, the other thing I I think about too is you've kind of had to learn a whole new repertoire in a way with Kendo, right? Because uh the gimmick had already been done and there was already this established way that kendo works. So, like, what was it like for you? I know you'd already worked under you know three or four different gimmicks sometimes in the same night, but what that with kendo specifically, what was the biggest adjustment?

oad Lessons With Tracy

SPEAKER_03 11:40

Well, the original Kendo was Tim Horner. So when they decided to put the gimmick on him, he came down to the wrestling school and worked out with me. So practicing his ninja abilities. Which he was pretty good at the ninja abilities. And uh so I was privy to knowing why Kendo did what and when Kendo did what. But yeah, I had to keep all everybody separate. You know, the Hornet had a move set, the Infernos walked a different way and had a move set, and I had my own way of and walking and moving, and then you know, the samurai had his way. So I was learning a bunch of different stuff because I had to be different people.

SPEAKER_01 12:24

Yeah, yeah, and and that's just remarkable. Just uh I I can't I can't imagine just you know uh keeping all that straight while you're I mean, you know you're having to keep all that straight while you're working very consistently, traveling a lot. Um I'm sure sleep was not a part of your regular routine back then. Um absolutely not. But you you were you were you were logging some miles, man. I mean, this episode took you all over the place.

SPEAKER_03 12:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:59

Um and really, I mean, your first real long trips, I mean, East Tennessee to West Tennessee, I I don't know, you know, people that are listening to this that are from this area, they they get it, you know. But I think a lot of people that hear this who aren't familiar with Tennessee's geography don't understand it. Like we're closer in East Tennessee to several other states than we are to the other end of the state. I mean, that is a long trip to be doing w basically weekly, it sounds like.

SPEAKER_03 13:34

Yeah, I mean, it was closer to drive from East Tennessee to Beckley, West Virginia than it was to drive from Knoxville to Memphis.

SPEAKER_02 13:43

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 13:44

And I would have to go back and forth in that long stretch, you know, and had to make it back because I had towns. I mean, it wasn't like there was an option. Well, I'll just sleep here for a little bit. If I had to sleep, I'd I'd sleep on the side of the road for an hour. I mean, a hotel would have been a waste of money because I had to be somewhere else. And and it just I just got used to traveling and driving and going back and forth, and me and Anthony got so sick of each other we couldn't stand each other, but we loved each other, and it was just you know, dog days on the road.

ake Roberts In The Locker Room

SPEAKER_01 14:23

For sure, and and and your first foray into that, um, you know, early on in your career. So talk to me a little bit about why USWA. Was that something you you two sought out? Was it just something that it kind of came about with the good word being put in? Was it and and I mean, really at the end of the day, was it just we're trying to work as much as we can? Uh just what kind of went into that? You know, the here here you are a year in basically to to working in Smoky Mountain and doing a couple of independent shots, and now you're now you're now you're branching out to the other end of the state and uh in a whole nother territory.

SPEAKER_03 15:05

Well, um I went into the office because usually on when I had off time I'd just go hang out at the office, you know, it was cool and something to do, and you know, they'd put you to work doing something. So I went in and I saw Sandy Scott, the general manager, and I had started talking to him and said, Hey, you know, me and Anthony would like to try to do a tag team gimmick, but there's no real spots here. You know, maybe we could go some other places and get it down and then come back here. And Sandy's picked up the phone, which was corded at the time, and called Dirty White Boy and said, Hey, come down to the office. And when he got down to the office, he said, Uh, can you get the kids booked it with Lawler? And White Boy picked up the phone, called Lawler, and bing bang boom, we were booked and heading to USWA.

SPEAKER_01 16:01

Yeah, and I mean, and that's a territory that I think you had seen quite a bit of at that point, am I correct?

SPEAKER_03 16:06

Oh, yeah. I first of all, I used to grow up uh reading about Jerry Lawler. Now, I didn't have the tape trades or anything like that. I had seen him wrestle a couple times. You know, this is pre streaming and YouTube. We're talking about maybe a VHS tape that maybe had one match on it or a clip. But I but I would read about Lawler my whole life. And um then once we got into the business, we had access to tapes, we had seen a lot of their stuff. And a lot of their early 80s stuff going up into the 90s, and plus they were also on um ESPN by that point, I believe. They were done they were done doing the ESPN show by the time I got there, but the but the shows were still airing. So you could watch that.

SPEAKER_01 17:01

Yeah, yeah. So so it's funny you bring up, you know, growing up on magazines, we we both were magazine kids and we talk about that a lot off the air. But how how did you find out that you were ranked for Smoky Mountain as the Hornet in PWI for the first time?

SPEAKER_03 17:22

Well, I um I used to subscribe to every magazine, every single one of them. Once I got in the business, that I just I got all of them, every last one of them. And I ended up talking to my dad, and he showed me the magazine and said, Hey, you're you're ranked, you're in this. And I was like, Wow, that's really cool. I mean, it was the Hornet, but I was like, Man, that's really cool. That's me. You know, I I went from reading these things to being in these things, and that was that was awesome.

SPEAKER_01 17:56

Yeah, I mean that those rankings were uh as a kid in the magazine days, those rankings were everything. I mean, that's how you that's kind of how you kept track of between the results, yeah, you know, that were that were turned in and and the and the rankings every every month and PWI. That's that's how you that's how you kept up with the business.

SPEAKER_03 18:16

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, that was your lifeline to knowing about what happened um when you couldn't see it.

ain Eventing With Dirty White Boy

SPEAKER_01 18:27

And and yeah, I mean, and like you said, pre streaming or or digital video of any kind, if you if you saw anything that didn't air in your local area off your local stations, um it was a VHS tank. And those you couldn't put all you couldn't put hours and hours on a VHS tank back then. So um, you know, those magazines were were the lifeblood of the business on a on a national level, you know. If you wanted to keep up with with the the bigger picture, that was that was that was the only way to do it. Um so let's let's go let's go to Memphis. Let's go to USWA.

SPEAKER_03 19:09

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 19:09

And first night in. So kind of playing off of this conversation we are having right now. It sounds like you were you were watching a lot of take once you were in the business and had more access to it. Had you ever seen a blindfold battle royal before?

SPEAKER_03 19:28

No. Uh-uh. I had no idea what it was, you know. Or or a moondog battle royal or a uh two by four battle royal or any other kind of battle royal that they came up with. But yeah, they they said, here, put this on, and I thought it was a hood. I was like, There's no eyes, and they're like it's a blindfold. I said, It sure is. You know. But they were fun, man, because you could see through them. You know, I don't I guess we're smarting everybody up, but you could see through them, and it was just really fun to go out there and try try to find the other person and point at the crowd where to go and stuff like that. It was it was it was fun.

SPEAKER_01 20:11

There's a difference in a clear path of vision and seeing through one of those things. I mean what when you say you could see through it, you weren't completely blind, but you definitely didn't have your your your full capabilities of your of your of your eyes. I mean that that's still a challenge.

SPEAKER_03 20:33

I mean you could see about three feet in front of you, and that's about it.

SPEAKER_01 20:37

Yeah, and no peripheral.

SPEAKER_03 20:39

No peripheral at all.

SPEAKER_01 20:41

Yeah, so so still a still a challenge, and to just I mean, I'm assuming you showed up that night and they just said, here you go, this is what we're doing.

SPEAKER_03 20:50

Yeah, absolutely. Uh they were like, uh I I think I don't this might have been later on, but it was uh work a single with Mike Sampson, samples, Mike Samples, sorry, and then come back in a six-man tag and then work the blindfold battle royal. That was the first five matches.

SPEAKER_01 21:09

Yeah, yeah. I mean, that first night was was three matches, and it was a single tag and a battle and a blindfold battle royal. That's that's just that that was a night's work. That's how you earned your 40 bucks in it.

SPEAKER_03 21:22

I know. Uh what's that translate to eleven thirty three uh twelve thirty-three of Matt?

SPEAKER_00 21:31

Yeah, something like that.

SPEAKER_03 21:33

Hey, I went and told when we were I'm jumping way ahead, but uh I went to Jerry Jarrett's house to film some stuff for one of the movies that I directed, and uh Jerry was great, and I love Jerry. And uh he uh I told him one time, I said, I got a check from you for thirty four dollars and thirty four cents, and I had not taken a draw. And he said, You didn't take a draw and I only paid you thirty he's like, for a night? I said, For a week. And he was like, oh my God. I said, now look, I said, don't, I'm not giving you a hard time. I was happy to get it. You know, because I was in the business and I was getting paid. But yeah,$34.34 was the lowest check I've ever received from a wrestling promoter.

SPEAKER_01 22:19

Yeah, just makes you think of uh I think I think it's Dutch that tells a story about Jerry Jarrett coming into the locker room and talking about how he he didn't want anybody on on the gas. And you know, the response was, we're not on the gas, you barely pay us enough to be on food. Yeah, we're not even on food. So um I don't know. I'm assuming since you put it on this date that you have it written down in the book like this, but as soon as you brought it up, I Googled it because I was like, there's a there's a chance that this is not correct.

SPEAKER_03 23:03

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 23:04

You have the OJ Simpson chase on June the 6th.

SPEAKER_03 23:08

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 23:09

And that did not happen until June the 17th.

SPEAKER_03 23:12

Oh, so I'm off a week. I'm off two weeks.

SPEAKER_01 23:16

And unless, and unless I missed something, I don't think you worked on the 17th. You worked the 18th.

SPEAKER_03 23:27

Right. I was probably just hanging out with Anita in Memphis at her trailer. That's probably how that happened. You know, yeah, yeah. And for those of you who know Anita, then you know Anita. But if you don't know Anita, Anita is the, I mean, this is tough, but she's the whole reason that Carrie Bon Eric killed himself.

SPEAKER_01 23:48

She's still Yeah, you told that story. You told that story, and and you and you prefaced it on the on the on the main show by saying that you don't know this for a fact, but that's just kind of the legend. That's what Right. Right the the word on the street is, so to speak.

SPEAKER_03 24:06

Yeah. Yeah. So we uh went and we couldn't let Law Lawler find out about it that we were staying there because he, you know, he didn't like her. So Bert Prentice was like, don't let Lawler know. And I'm thinking, well, how the hell is he not gonna know? You can't, I mean, the boys are gonna stooge us off. First thing, you know, it'll probably be Bert Bert that stooges us off.

eeping Gimmicks And Moves Separate

SPEAKER_01 24:35

That's a good uh that's a good segue into my next my next point uh that I wanted to touch on here. And and I think, you know, the listener, as the listener, you might be noticing a bit a bit of a trend here, a bit of a theme, that this was a completely different era. Just yeah, not not just in wrestling, but societally, things were were very different in a lot of ways. And you know, does it all age well? Not necessarily, but you know, we do we do have to kind of in today's world, we have to come on here and say we get it, right? We understand the the the pros and cons of today versus then and yada yada and all that. So um, but I mean let's just talk about the fact that you go so the boys stay at the day's end. That's just the way it is. That's that's it's it was that way long before you, and and it was long after preordained, yes.

SPEAKER_03 25:40

It's the place that the prophet spoke about.

SPEAKER_01 25:44

So just the just the idea that the girls would just call random rooms at the day's end.

SPEAKER_03 25:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:52

Because they knew the numbers and they knew that's where the guys stayed, and they knew that if they called enough rooms, they were gonna get somebody on the line.

SPEAKER_03 26:01

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 26:02

True. And just um I I mean, wow. What uh I guess I guess my question, you know, I the thing that's kind of on my mind the most is you you kept this sort of schedule long after this. For for many years, you were you were you were working these many this many matches, you were driving this many miles, you were encountering these sorts of situations. When did you first kind of become aware that the culture of the business was changing and going away from things like that, where where you know, be it girls or guys or fans or what, you know, what have you? It's it doesn't even have to be about the about the sexual aspect of any of it, but there did come a point where that stopped in wrestling and the the fanaticism kind of cooled off. When when did you first kind of notice that that was the case and things were kind of the the tide was kind of turning?

SPEAKER_03 27:14

Well, to quote something from that time period, I met my last rat in 1999 in Puerto Rico. When I returned from Puerto Rico, there were none left.

SPEAKER_02 27:29

Yeah.

ong Drives And No Sleep

SPEAKER_03 27:30

Now, what I mean by that is that the boys started bringing their girlfriends and wives to the shows. So that would run off the young girls. When you run off the young girls, the young boys don't come to spend the money to see the young girls, so the houses dipped, which then gets you into 95 and 96, and then Prodigy comes up, the internet comes up, and now they're telling everything that's taped is taped, and the industry just changed as a whole, and I knew that the industry was changing in 96 when I went to WCW, which we hadn't got there yet. But um the um the industry as far as gro the groupie scene changed in about 1999.

SPEAKER_01 28:20

Yeah, yeah. And I I yeah, it's just it's just crazy to to go back to a pre-internet anything. And I mean that that was such a big change for really every everything, everybody in the world who who got the internet. You know, it it changed it changed the way we all kind of looked at the world and just the information, the the let the amount, I guess, of information is what I'm trying to say that we all had access to.

SPEAKER_03 28:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:59

And um yeah, I mean, again, just a completely uh different snapshot of of American life. Just uh we could we could we could do hours on that alone, I think.

SPEAKER_03 29:14

You know, oh yeah, but how everything changed? Absolutely. I mean, yeah, you know, between 99 and 2001 with 9-11, it was a totally different business, but then after 9-11, it was a completely different business.

ow USWA Memphis Happened

SPEAKER_01 29:31

Right, right. So, all right, so you get to Memphis, you're you're working a couple shots, and you're working Nashville, the famous Nashville Fair, and you laid it out perfectly, talking about how there were people that had sat in the same seat every show there for years, decades, some of them. Um and you know, they would pass away and it would be a big, it would be a big deal for everybody. It was just such a communal town, you know. Memphis was the way Memphis was structured, they they they really um they really, really created and and nurtured is the word I'm looking for, nurtured that sort of communal communal feel to the to that territory. And we get one of my favorite Brian stories out of all the Brian stories, the Eddie Marlin.

SPEAKER_03 30:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:34

I just and and so my first question is if you had kept your mouth shut and you had just gotten no reactions from the crowd and just went with it and not said what you said or yelled what you yelled at this guy, do you keep the job or do you think that it would it wouldn't have mattered because they were they were so it was so different than than what they were looking for?

SPEAKER_03 31:04

Oh, I think we were fired long before the uh before I said what we said from the looks on Eddie Marlin's face, because he wasn't mad, he was stern.

SPEAKER_01 31:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 31:15

So, you know, he wasn't mad at what I said, he just was convinced that we weren't going we weren't gonna be there.

SPEAKER_01 31:22

Yeah. You know, yeah, and I mean I I I can't imagine what's going through your mind at that point because this is this is the first time you've been fired. I mean and I I I I've gotta believe there's at least a part of you that's going, well, my career is over.

SPEAKER_03 31:41

Well, we were confused. We still had Smoky Mountain. It just wasn't gonna be as much.

SPEAKER_02 31:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 31:48

So we it wasn't so drastic as all the career is over. It's just like, well, we we didn't make it in this territory. That's you know, that was new. We messed this all up. Which is ironic because if you think about later on when um in the late 2000s, I think I'm perfect for Memphis.

SPEAKER_01 32:16

Yeah, yeah, I I I I could definitely uh I could definitely hear an argument for that. And and what a what another way to illustrate sort of the difference in the era because they they were dying off and most of them had died off, but you still had some semblance of a territorial system. So you go you go to Memphis and you flop, there wasn't that panic, I guess, of of you know, because you knew well, I can just go the six, eight hours to back to the other side of the state, and and it's it's all good because nobody there saw this, nobody there experienced this whole situation.

SPEAKER_03 32:59

Yeah, yeah. I mean, and then you know, the Stooges would call the office and and hell, I was Randy Hales' Stooge for a little bit about Smoky Mountain. But uh, you know, they would tell the only way to know is if somebody called them and told them that this happened. You know, and getting fired from Memphis is not exactly the top news story, you know. So you just decided to go to a different territory and try to get over. There just wasn't a lot of them.

agazines And The First PWI Ranking

SPEAKER_01 33:32

Right. They again that the that was dwindling more and more by the day, and we we'll we'll get not that far down the road into the the demise of Smoky Mountain, but but yeah, just you know, just a just a totally different business, a totally different culture and society, um pre-internet, like we said. So as as we kind of move along through all this, you know, fortunately you you apologized and ended up staying around doing both Memphis and Smoky Mountain for a while. Um but but here you are learning all these lessons. You're you're learning how to you're learning how to put together a main event match with the very white boy. You're learning because you're working both ends of the state, the difference between towns and crowds and styles and the way that audiences are sort of trained by what has existed in the ring in front of their eyes for for decades. And you know, then you get this incredible lesson where you've got to work with a guy that doesn't even speak English.

SPEAKER_03 34:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:57

And I I just talk to me about that process. Like I know that there's I know that there's words, wrestling terms, move names for moves that he probably knew, but take me through that process and just sort of the differences between what you were used to and working with someone like Onita, who again did not even speak English.

SPEAKER_03 35:20

Well, uh Tommy Rich did the translating, which is hilarious to think about. You want to know how I work, Onita? Well, I got me some Sody Pop over here. Um basically we did international spots, tackle drop down hip toss, tackle drop-down, hip toss, arm drag, maybe a leapfrog in there. Um, and then they got the heat on me and I made a comeback. So it was very, very simplistic. And even you went by feel. So there was no spots called in the ring. You just had to remember it and hope the other guy was good enough to do it.

lindfold Battle Royals And Small Pay

SPEAKER_01 36:03

Right, right. And and what a cool, I mean, uh, of all the I mean, this cast of characters that you've encountered uh over your 30 plus years going through these books now, looking back, I mean, what a great story to tell that you you got the opportunity to work with Onita. Just uh uh one of many people that we'll talk about as as we go through your books that that not not a household name, not not one of the more famous personalities in the history of the business, but if you are into wrestling, um you understand the sort of the mystique of Onita?

SPEAKER_03 36:48

Yeah, and see I asked them a question. I've asked every Japanese guy I've ever met, uh especially ones that speak English. It helps if they speak English, but um and they never answer me. I'm always like for for Americans going to Japan is a is a privilege and a big deal. Is coming to America the same? Like, is that a big deal? Is that a privilege? And they never answer me. So getting a young Onita before he's actually made his legacy is pretty cool. I mean, being 17 years old, 18 years old, and working a Japanese guy in, you know, Evansville, Indiana is just a why, I mean, have that on your bingo card.

SPEAKER_01 37:36

Yeah, not not not everybody can say can say that that's something they've experienced, uh, for sure. So, you know, and and and it so we go from from that to bloody harlot and this rough and rowdy crowd in in a territory at the time of rough and rowdy crowds. I mean, you had experienced some pretty hot crowds.

SPEAKER_02 38:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:04

Um, especially there in eastern Kentucky. I mean, those those were red hot crowds. And if and if you if you wanna if you want to see it, you can go back and watch those those big those big cards in Kentucky for Smokey Mountain. And the I mean, they're literally hanging from the rafters. I mean, it's just pandemonium. But but now you're going to Harlan and you're you're you're working Harlan as a heel. So who gets in your ear to be like, you know, hey, keep your heat at a certain level, but but don't take it past that level because we don't we don't want this place to be burned to the ground.

SPEAKER_03 38:45

I think we were, I mean, I I don't really remember, but I think we were all talking about it in the locker room. Yeah. And that, you know, the heels were like, you know, let's let's get our heat and give them a good show, but let's not, you know, have an international incident here. You know. So it was basically all the guys saying, get your heat and get out of there, get your heat and get out of there.

SPEAKER_01 39:09

Yeah, absolutely. So just uh just uh again, another another valuable lesson that you would you would, I'm sure, carry with you throughout your career.

SPEAKER_03 39:20

Well, and here's one of sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt you, but the one of the things that Cornette always said was in in regards to getting heat, was you've just robbed the bank, the townspeople are coming with pitchforks. Get out of town, leave with your heat. Don't stay too long. And that is a lost art form now.

ats End And The Internet Arrives

SPEAKER_01 39:46

Yeah, and and and that's something Cornette says a lot uh on uh even on his podcast, you know, talks about when he's when he's analyzing things he's watching modern wrestling, he talks about that. You know, you just you just robbed the bank and they're coming for you. Why are you just hanging outside the bank? Right. Run, you idiot. You know, get up, get away, get away with your heat, get away with the bag of money, you know. Um and so as you're learning all this stuff, you're you're you're you're really finding your way, you're experiencing these things, the long trips, the hot crowds, the difference in crowds, uh, the difference in opponents, all these things. And then you get your first real injury when you break your faint. And you've got this, you've got this moment with Cornet that you talked about where he's he's like, listen, it's up to you. No one's telling you what to do or not do, but let me let me help you weigh your options with something like a broken faint. And obviously, you mentioned years down the road the surgery and the complications from it, you know, long term. But how how long did you kind of think about that decision, or was it as soon as he said that, you knew I'm working through it?

SPEAKER_03 41:18

Well, I knew I was working through it because I I was about to pass out and I didn't think I could drive me to the hospital, and I thought somebody needed to drive me to the hospital, and no one was volunteering to do that, so I had to sit there a while. Well, as I sat there a while getting my faculties back, I was processing what he was saying. And he and Jimmy went and got me some ice, and I mean he was he was good. He administered what first aid he could, you know. And then at the end of the night, I was like, Well, my apartment's literally two blocks away, or I can go up there and sit at the hospital. I'll just go home. So that was kind of my thought process was yeah, I I gotta wrestle, so I'll just tape it up from then on.

SPEAKER_01 42:05

Yeah, I I that's kind of the answer I expected, you know, um, because you you laid that that the way that Cornet kind of framed the whole the whole situation up. You you you you did a good job of kind of illustrating that, and you know, and I think I think, yeah, I mean that's that's kind of what I what I expected you to say, but I felt like I had to ask uh I had to ask anyways.

SPEAKER_03 42:33

Right. No, absolutely. I mean, and we'll get into this later in future episodes, but I ended up uh breaking my ankle or spraining my ankle in Canada and uh similar situation, and we'll we'll save the details for that, but it it's the boys came to my rescue again of you know, we know you only have one leg now and one thing, you know, one hand without a finger, but you're gonna be fine. You're gonna be okay. You know, that was the the the sentiment of everything was you're you're gonna live, it'll be all right.

SPEAKER_01 43:07

And and you know, worth mentioning uh, you know, we talk a lot, especially here in the early days of your career, about the differences in the business now compared to back then, and just that trust in who you're in the ring with.

SPEAKER_03 43:25

Right.

SPEAKER_01 43:26

That I don't know I don't know that exists today like it did in 1994 of saying, you know, I'm trusting you more than normal. I you know, you're always trusting someone with your body when you step into the ring with them. But now I'm wounded and we got to get through this and we and we gotta do what's best for both of us. But but I need you to take extra care of me and make sure that we're not complicating that or or putting, you know, don't. put me in more pain, you know, because we can we can help it. You know, we can we can do this and it can be fine, but but you gotta you gotta have that trust.

SPEAKER_03 44:10

Oh yeah, without a doubt. I mean and that was the good thing about all the smokey guys was is that we trusted each other. I mean the whole finger getting hurt incident was because I trusted Lance Storm to do a belly to belly off the top rope to me in the Kendo outfit um which was dumb. I I I won't say it's the biggest bump I've ever taken but it was one of them and it was it was brutal. I mean he I was probably up there 20 25 feet legitimately when it because he belly so it's the top rope he's standing and he releases me over his head and I come down. Yeah that's a huge bump. For a house show are you kidding me? You know like are you ribbing me? What's the deal here? But yeah they they took care of us and that's that that's might be a lost art form now is you know going out there and working with an injury you know you you you had to eat so you had to work right right absolutely so um as we're as we're winding down here on episode four I got I got a couple just quick little things I I want to touch on all right and the first the first of those is that incredible story about Rex King kidnapping Bert Prentice's dog.

SPEAKER_01 45:34

Yeah yeah and you talked about a little bit how you kind of hinted that like I think Rex might have been pulling my chain a little bit but for me hearing this story I don't care yeah because I'm a firm believer in the Dusty Rhodes way which is don't let the truth get in the way of a good story. Right print the legend yeah yeah what a I mean what what a what a what an incredible saga of a story.

ashville Fair Crowds And Getting Fired

SPEAKER_03 46:10

Yeah the poor puppy I mean the puppy was never in danger from what I understand but I mean just taking the I mean somebody takes my dogs I'm gonna kill them oh yeah that's I mean I'm going after Charlie Bronson style you know and people don't even know who Charlie Bronson is you know the actor not the jail guy let's say John let's say John Wick let's be a little bit more going after him John Wick style Ashley tells me that's a hell of a movie well I've never seen it but I know it all it they take his dog okay and kill his dog or something like that.

SPEAKER_01 46:49

Oh my god that's why I haven't watched it because I won't watch stuff like that yeah yeah Brian Brian ever the uh the animal lover especially the dogs yeah um I am one with my puppy people so I also love and it makes me laugh I've I've listened to episode four two or three times now and it makes me laugh every time when you're like hey if you know Phantasmo will you ask him how he does this magic trick and tell me I'm just going he's not gonna first off the the chances of somebody knowing him getting shot in the dark but even if they do magicians actually stand by K Fa. So he ain't telling you you'll never know how he did that.

SPEAKER_03 47:40

Yeah I I won't I will go to my grave and not know how I got hit with that thing. But it was amazing it really was um I just I guess it was sleight of hand I would I mean I don't know I mean I I I I the the handkerchief had to be real and the cane had to be real and they were swapping them out but I just don't I mean when you're wearing tights where do you put it right and he wore a bodysuit so it wasn't like there were trunks to get into it was like a leotard. So I don't I don't know but it was amazing.

SPEAKER_01 48:21

It was a hell of a finish and and what a gimmick I I just sometimes when he when he comes up sometimes I think I wonder what it was that stopped him from being a bigger star in New York because that was right up Vince's out. Right. I mean that is I mean what I what kind of guy was he was there was there was there did did he have red flags or uh he wasn't the smartest guy in the in the tool in the shed I think I think that was the the problem a little naive naivety going on yeah and I I just don't I don't think the boys liked him yeah yeah but I mean he went on he did some TNA stuff and you know Del Rios I think he was in WCW for a blink for Cappa Cappuccino so I don't know but I like that dude man I liked him I liked working him yeah you said it was a one of your favorite matches and and you talked about how much fun you had um working with him so yeah it was it was easy and then Bert was at ringside and I you know I I got a soft spot for Bert. I just love him yeah you've got you've got all kinds of great Bert Print stories those will be we'll we'll save we'll save the bulk of those for your your time working for Bert but you know I I also I also love you talking about calling him every week and saying you're coming to town. Oh yeah and then never showing up and that going on for years.

SPEAKER_03 49:52

Years and he believed me every single time I would convince him every single time I was coming and then just never go are you really are you really coming are you really coming hun are you really I swear I'll be there this time no not at all not a chance not a chance yeah but he was always open in Jackson Tennessee waiting for me to come down there.

orking Onita Without English

SPEAKER_01 50:25

Yeah yeah so you know it was it was a good time man it was a very good era all right so before we get out of here on this episode and this has been great again I'm so happy we're back to doing these and just giving you a space to tell these stories and you know an opportunity for people whether they're in the business or they're fans or they just stumble upon this some other way that to hear those these great stories. You so obviously we've kind of revamped things you've got the new website and the new social media which you've already gone into on episode five of Making the town so if you're interested in all that we're not we don't have to billboard it all and take time again um timeyourchampion.com is the hub for everything that's the that's the quick pitch but on episode four which again was was recorded eight months ago you were talking about you know posting a picture from before you were officially in the business or or I guess before you had started you were working out your last semester and you had signed your contract of you wrestling the bear.

arlan Heat And Leaving With It

roken Finger Advice From Cornette

SPEAKER_03 51:46

Yeah so I just want to give you a chance since it's not something we covered in the in the first episode there was so much to talk about then we didn't really get around to this okay t t tell the story of wrestling the bear well terrible Ted was a bear and he would go around to bars and he would wrestle all comers excuse me so I'm at Austin Broadest College up in Philippi West Virginia and I had signed my contract but I had to finish the semester but that meant that I didn't go to class I didn't leave the dorm room I I I just hung out watched wrestling and ate pizza so my friend Danny comes over and says that I had gone to high school with we went to college together me and him a few guys from high school all went to Austin brought us and they were like we know you're into wrestling they're having at this bar called the wheel which was the only bar in Philippi Philippi sat on top of a mountain and literally it was the only thing to do was this bar. It was like you could walk to it from campus. That's how how close it was and they were like yeah you're gonna we're gonna all go over there and you should wrestle this bear so I I decided to go over there and wrestle the bear. Well they had two heats they had the early night heat and the evening heat. Well I'm sitting there watching the early night and just watching this bear destroy everybody. Well the whole time my buddies are giving me beer and I'm just drinking draft beer one after another pound and I'm watching this bear trying to figure out how to wrestle this bear. So finally I I get ready to get up there and I'm drunk and the guy says you know I ask him I said what what what do you do to you know I've wrestled a little bit what do you what do you do? He said the crowd will go crazy if you could put the bear in a headlock oh okay I can do that I matter of fact I know exactly how to do that working wise so I lock up with the bear which is the picture that I showed and it's on my Instagram in case making the Brian Logan making the towns on Instagram and then I snatched the headlock like I had learned at Al Snow's uh deal and that bear stood straight up and got me in like an atomic drop position and just threw me like a dart across the floor and I hit and I skidded and the carpet got carpet burns. Now I'm pissed. So I get up and now I'm really wrestling the bear he he didn't have teeth but his jaws worked just fine. So I'm putting my forearms in his mouth and struggling with him in a half shoot, half work but they're still the bear's still a bear and he's chomping down on me but I was so drunk I couldn't feel how bad it hurt. So anyway me and the bear wrestle and I ended up you got to give him a coke afterwards and make nice with him and and there was a picture at some point of me hugging the bear. Uh that's lost the time which I really hate because that would have been a really cool thing. And um so the next day I wake up in the uh dorm room and I can't open my door because my forearms are so bruised I can't turn the knob. I had to use my elbow to get the door open just to go down and sit in the shower because I would just got beat the hell out of by this bear who thought he was just playing with me. But but it was a great experience and when I got in the business I was able to tell people hey I've wrestled terrible Ted oh really well you know Tracy Smiths I've wrestled terrible Ted you know that kind of thing. Yeah so it was a great experience I'm lucky I didn't get hurt which is which ought to be what my book should be called it was a wonderful experience thank god I didn't get hurt.

idnapped Dog And Magic Cane Mystery

SPEAKER_01 55:53

Oh my we need we need to jot that down and let that be used that's fantastic where where was where was that when you wrote the book man yeah exactly might have might have sold another copy or two I know it might have gone 17 times cost you know it went plywood you know instead of like uh uh gold and silver it went plywood right right so that's really all I've got from episode four I mean covered a lot of ground a lot of miles and a lot of great stories um I'm I'm excited to do this again for episode five which I've already listened to once I'm gonna give it another listen or two before we hit record on that one but uh I'm just ex I'm just ecstatic that you and I are are back to doing this and um flabbergasted for lack of a better word that you and I are I guess now both actively back in the wrestling.

restling Terrible Ted The Bear

SPEAKER_03 57:03

Yeah I mean isn't that wild after eight months we just swore and years for you swore off doing anything and then all of a sudden we're you know I'm doing podcasts I'm doing other people's podcasts I'm uh um you know making towns wrestling matches doing autograph signings I mean and you know and then we got the stuff we got coming up that we'll announce at the proper time it's it's wild never say never because they will pull you back in it's it's like it's like a disease it's terminal and you just never I don't know you never you never get it out of your blood it just keeps coming back you know once you're once you're in you're in for life and that and that's the way it ought to be you know the way I started off episode five was you know a Roddy uh a Bruce Pritchard quote about Roddy Piper of sometimes Roddy had to just go to the mountain clear his head and and I have learned that that's what I do I I have to take time off when it gets to be too much and then come back to it. And there ain't nothing wrong with that.

SPEAKER_01 58:13

No I don't think so either and I'm happy like I said to be back at it.

here To Find Everything

SPEAKER_03 58:18

Absolutely absolutely very happy to be back at it and uh we're getting it done but real quick before we finish up that's I amyourchampion.com it has all the social medias on there also I am your champion exclamation point on YouTube there's 142 uh matches on there and segments and we're gonna be adding more to it so check those two things out you can get the podcast uh where you're listening to the podcast now you can get making the towns you can also uh get the the ride home and uh that's about it that's all we have for right now and this has been a hell of a ride home I am your champion oh man that's classic I love it I'm gonna climb that ladder of success all the way to the top