The Ride Home
Dallas Danger and Brian Logan sit down and discuss in Q & A form "Making the Towns" podcast.
The Ride Home
How To Grow As A Wrestler When Nobody’s Watching
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Your hometown can love you and still refuse to see you the way strangers do, and that might be the most honest lesson in all of independent wrestling. We start with the practical stuff from the road in 1997: why Southern States felt like the obvious, safest landing spot for a newer worker, what “good towns” really means when you are driving into the middle of nowhere in West Virginia, and why places like Nutter Fork and Kingwood can turn an armory show into the biggest night of the year.
Then we get real about career headspace and long-term goals. WWF is still the target, but the path is messy: long gaps in contact, the temptation to politic, and the choice to let your work do the talking while you grind through a network of regular dates. We also connect the dots to the era that leads into OVW developmental and the behind-the-scenes reality of waiting for “the pieces” to come together.
From there, we dig into the emotional side of performance. Oak Hill is home, and that makes it complicated: people know you too well, they remember the old version of you, and you still want that moment where the building finally reacts. We also talk about the pre-YouTube world where you could work babyface one night and heel the next, plus the risks of trying creative swings that don’t land, including a painfully uncomfortable family angle. And yes, the 1-800 Collect tour stories get as wild as you hope, right down to merch chaos and locker-room fallout.
If you enjoy stories about 1990s indie wrestling, West Virginia territories-style towns, wrestling psychology, and the real business of getting better, hit subscribe, share the show with a friend, and leave us a review. What’s the hardest crowd you’ve ever had to win over?
Welcome Back And Show Format
SPEAKER_02I am your champion. Oh man, that's classic. I love it. I'm gonna climb that ladder of success all the way to the top. Hello, everybody, and welcome back. This is the Ride Home episode 10. I'm your host, Brian Logan, with my pal and confidant, Dallas Danger. Dallas, how are you?
SPEAKER_00That was beautiful. What an introduction.
SPEAKER_02I I got it. I nailed it that time on the fifth try, didn't I?
SPEAKER_00Um when you first started, I had to I was still holding back laughter.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_00So I'm very proud in my current mental state that I was able to hold back laughter and refocus. Well, and not derail you because you nailed it. I mean, that was just what an intro.
SPEAKER_02It was very good. You know, the second time does it. We had to we had to do it the second time, letting, you know, a little peek behind the curtain. I cocked it up the first time, so we had to redo it. But uh the ride home episode 10. And uh so we have two podcasts. We have Making the Towns of Brian Logan, which is like going to the town, where I kept journals for over 30 years, and we're going through the matches and the money and the bumps and the towns in that, and then we have the ride home, which is like the ride home from the wrestling show, where uh Dallas expands on a QA format and asks me questions and we talk about that episode. So without further ado, I will turn that over to you, Dallas.
SPEAKER_00All right. So, you know, I I think we're good. You know, I feel good about the notes I've got here. Uh, but this this was a little this is the first time, you know, 10 episodes in where I felt it was a challenge.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um not because there's not people, places, and things to talk about, but just because there's just we we you've hit the scroove now.
SPEAKER_02Right. Not a lot of meat on the boat.
SPEAKER_00I'll get to it, you know, the who what where and why of it a little bit later because I like to kind of do go in chronological order as my notes are. But yeah, uh, you know, just really have reached a point by 1997 where you're just I mean you you keep mentioning instances where you call yourself green, but you're certainly not a level of green where you're just getting started anymore. I mean, this is your this is your life, and it has been your life for multiple years now. And um yeah, I mean, there's just like you said, it's it's almost like there's not as much meat on the bone here because because you've settled in to a nice groove, you've got the regular places you're working and the regular people you're seeing. And so
Why Southern States Was The Move
SPEAKER_00um, you know, the the first thing um to really get started with uh for me is you mentioned uh Troy Shremel, uh Eddie, was it Eddie Edmonds that he went by?
SPEAKER_02Oh yeah, and it had to be it had to be a Marvel name, it had to be a double E.
SPEAKER_00Of course. So uh you mentioned when he wanted to start working that that uh you made it sound like the obvious thing to do was to take him to Bose to Southern States. Um and I just would like to know what made you feel that way. Like why why why was that the obvious next step to take um Eddie Edmonds to Southern States?
SPEAKER_02Well, him and Bo were knew each other because we had been working on his shows together, and they liked each other, and uh I felt that it was a safe place for him, that he could go there and learn, and you know, he could make a mistake or two and nobody would yell at him, and that it was close, it wasn't that far away, it was about four hours, which was really close back in the day. And uh I just felt that the guys would work with him and make him better, and that that that was a real good fit and a real good opportunity for him to get in. Plus, we always needed more regulars there at the uh Samson Center.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, and I mean it it it's like that never changed about so much today. I mean, I feel like you could say that about that promotion in 2026.
SPEAKER_02Oh, yeah, yeah, definitely. I totally agree.
SPEAKER_00You know, and and I think that Bo is doing a lot of great things with some really promising younger guys that are, you know, not necessarily brand new, but they're they're new to I mean, we we've we've got some kids, there's some kids at Switzer State Wrestling right now, and I call them kids, you know, they're they're they're brand men, but um they're they're living a very Brian Logan in the 90s kind of lifestyle as far as the the the miles that they're putting in and the the the the travel that the um and the opportunities they're getting.
SPEAKER_02So yeah, I I'm getting long-winded because of my current state of mind, but um, yeah, I think that rings true today about so much that I think it does, and you know, we'll get into this uh in the bonus episode of WFS that we're gonna be having come on up right after this. But uh, you know, Mike Mann is starting to remind me of me a little bit. Making the towns, driving, making the jokes at the right moment about making the towns, you know, about, you know, I want to go home. I got four hours, you know. Like I can remember me saying that a couple hundred times, you know. So he's really one of the guys that's been doing this for a while now who's found a home up there. And there's several guys there that just remind me of me.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, I I I Mike makes a lot of sense because he very much is is like you personality-wise, I think. And I could see I could see, you know, I I didn't know young you, obviously, but I I definitely that makes sense to me, and I don't think uh that that should surprise anybody that knows the two of you.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, yeah. He just he cracked me up the other night when he said that, and I thought, good for you, kid. Good for you. You know, stand up for what's right.
SPEAKER_00Man, uh all right, so uh anything else you want to say about southern states and and it and what we're talking about before I move on to a very important question.
SPEAKER_02I think I think uh Troy Eddie did pretty well there. He he had a few matches, and I think he would have done a lot better with his career had he stayed there and worked a few things out. Again, he didn't have the opportunity at home that to make it um uh peacefully, I guess, is a good word. He uh there was always some kind of calamity surrounding a road trip, and I think if he had that peace, then he he would have had another facet to his career, and that might have kept him around a little bit longer. But he did well there, and um, you know, as most guys do.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, all right, so next question. Supremely
Finding Nutter Fork And Tiny Towns
SPEAKER_00important question. All right, perhaps never a more important question asked on this show, okay in in our nine plus episodes.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_00Where on planet freaking earth is Nutter Fork, West Virginia?
SPEAKER_02Nutter Fork, West Virginia is uh uh up in middle to going towards the western side like you're going to Morgantown. So it'd be like uh go up like you're gonna go to WBU and before you get there turn right. But it's it's in the middle of nowhere. It's up there next to Kingwood. Kingwood's another town that's literally in the middle of nowhere. That the whole town's built around an armory.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Yeah, I just I heard that name and I was like, I don't hear a ton of places in West Virginia that I've never heard of before.
unknownRight.
SPEAKER_00No frame of reference, and that one just that one got me. I was like, I gotta ask because I gotta know. Because I I don't have any, I just didn't have the slightest clue where Nutter Fork is.
SPEAKER_02Well, late later on, go ahead. I'm sorry.
SPEAKER_00And I just to put a pretty little bow on it. I only know where Bradshaw, West Virginia is because I've been there.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_00You know what I mean? Like it's just that I've never worked Nutter Fork, West Virginia, so I've never had you know what I mean? I've never needed to know where it was.
SPEAKER_02Right. Well, they usually later on when we would run up there on a regular basis and do three days of loops, it would be uh Shinston, Kingwood, and Nutterfort. Those would be the three towns, and they are all about the same. Basically, you go off one way from the highway and drive a million miles into the woods left, or you go right and you get to the other one. So there's there's probably a good reason you haven't heard of those places because people don't go there every day.
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_02Good towns, though.
SPEAKER_00Well, yeah, I mean, and and I I don't remember the context, but I uh recently was making a joke with someone about about a small town and and and wrestling and wrestling being there, and it's like, yeah, well, that's because there's nothing else there. That's why wrestling goes to these towns, because they don't have big time sports or concert venues, or you know what I mean? There's just not entertainment there. And if they've got a building that will let you in, that's you know what I mean, that yeah, that you can set a ring up in and set some chairs up in, that's exactly where wrestling thrives. You know what I mean? So it makes perfect sense that it was such a good town, and I've never heard of it because those two things in a lot of ways go hand in hand.
SPEAKER_02Absolutely. They uh, you know, these towns where they pipe sunlight in and you know they're very small, and like you said, don't have maybe the high school, you know, they may have uh 12 kids in their graduating class, so they don't have like a big football program or anything like that. Um the biggest things that can happen is pro wrestling and the fair come to town or the carnival, which are both kind of the same thing. And it's the biggest thing to happen that year until next year when it's the biggest thing, and they come back around. And I think pro wrestling over the years just found those little holes in the wall and ran them to death um for good reason, and were very successful because there's just nothing to do there, and you know, you may have a town of a thousand people and eight hundred and fifty of them will come to to the wrestling. I mean, that was back in the day that was very possible. And the other ones wanted to know about it, they were just sick, they couldn't make it.
SPEAKER_00Uh well somebody's gotta work, you know. The nice mate. Well, I don't know. I would assume there's jobs there or close by.
SPEAKER_02I mean well, there's always there's the prison. You know, they they all worked at the factory went out of business, so they all work at the prison now.
SPEAKER_00All right, there you go. There you go.
SPEAKER_02That sounds like a joke, but it's really not a joke. That's really how these towns work, you know.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Um, but you know what? Uh I've had some great times in some towns like that. The the people, the people I brought up Bradshaw specifically, the people of Bradshaw, West Virginia were nothing but kind and uh gracious to me. Just good, just good people, yeah, as far as I was concerned. And um, you know, uh places like that have their faults, and I I'll be honest, I don't want to live in a place like that, but um to go and and and work and put on shows and um things like that, uh you know, there's some there's some really great um experiences to be had.
SPEAKER_02So, real quick about uh Bradshaw, we're we're getting dressed, and uh Bo says, Hey, there's a bunch of bikers outside that want to talk to you. And I'm like, I don't know anybody like are you joking? He's like, No, seriously, there's about 10 bikers outside and they want to talk to you. And I'm like, oh great. This is just, you know, this can't get any more perfect. And I go outside, and one of the bikers was a guy I played football with in high school, Joe, and he had brought the whole guys down, the whole gang, and uh they were there to see wrestling, and they had a blast in that night.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, very cool. Just uh just a real good time. A weird time, but a but a good time. Right, right, right, right. Nonetheless.
SPEAKER_02Well, it wouldn't be pro wrestling if it wasn't a little bit weird.
SPEAKER_00Oh, come on. The weirder the better sometimes.
SPEAKER_02Absolutely, absolutely. You know, people are like, you're not gonna believe this. Well, try me. I've seen, you know, I've seen a lot.
SPEAKER_00A few things. Yeah. A few things, yeah.
SPEAKER_02You know, so uh my believability scale and yours is probably two different realms.
SPEAKER_00100%. Absolutely, could not agree more. All right, so uh, all jokes aside, shout out to Nutter Fork and Bradshaw, West Virginia. Um all jokes aside, the real kind of this is this is what I really want to talk about in terms of this time period and what I'm hearing
WWF Dreams And The Politics Problem
SPEAKER_00as we go through episode 10 making the tales. So there was a moment where you talked about Bobby Fulton giving you 10 extra dollars to feed four guys, and his wife giving him grief about you can't do that, and him arguing and saying yes you can, go to Burger King, go to the super value menu, and you talked about how happy you were to get it. And I just I'm noticing as this story is told and as you're you're conveying that sentiment about I'm not complaining that he only gave us ten dollars, I'm saying it was nice of him and it was a good pat on the back that he did give us that ten dollars extra. Um I'm noticing this we're we're we're now reaching that point. You've you you started Smoky Mountain and and it's it's long since gone. You've been to WCW and you've seen the the glass ceiling that was waiting for you there, and you've had WWF training you're in this rhythm now, you're in this group working for these same independent promotions. Where where is your headspace at as far as like aspirations? Are you I mean, are you still in contact with the bigger companies? What where are you at as far as your career goes? Um at this point in 1997.
SPEAKER_02Well, okay, 97 to start with was a better year than 95. I I glossed over this a little bit. 95 was the worst year I had ever lived in my entire life to this day. But kind of in the uh opposite end, 97 was a great year. So I had seen all those things. I did not want to go back to WCW. My goal was to go to WWF. That was always my goal. Um and I'd had to try it, and they knew who I was, and it's one of those things you it could go both ways. You could talk to them on a regular basis, like some of the boys do, and they politic their way in. And or you may go a long period of time and not talk to them, and you just kind of look into, hey, we forgot about you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Why don't you come back? Why don't we take another look at you? And that's kind of the way I went because I was I should have been a bigger politician when it came to my career. But I really didn't like the politics and I always felt like my ability should speak for me, not just me bullshitting somebody into having a conversation that ends up with them taking a look at me. I thought it was just a quicker route to work as hard and best as you could every night, night in, night out, and to go to these towns and keep having these matches. And that was my goal, was to just go out there and work as much. I kind of had a little network worked out by them. Because I'd been in the business four or five years at this point. And uh, you know, so I kind of had the contacts down and wanted to just go out there and work dates and uh try growing West Virginia and uh just seeing what would come down the line and just trying to stay fresh and in the best shape as as I could and work the best matches that I could.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, but but I mean somewhere in your mind at all times is the goal is WWF.
SPEAKER_02Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. The goal was always WWF. That's that's why I got in the business. That's where I wanted to go. I wanted to be a WWF superstar. I wanted to have a doll. That was my goal. That's the the real end goal, is me having a doll. That's all this money and matches and stuff. As long as we get a toy, we're fine.
SPEAKER_00And we're still trying.
SPEAKER_02Still working on it, still working on it to this day. That's why I'm still taking bumps. I get a doll, I'm done bumping.
SPEAKER_00Uh-huh. I'll believe that when I see it. I believed you when you said that before.
SPEAKER_02Well, I meant it before, but it just came back around and funny how things work out.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it is. It sure is. Very funny. Okay, so but you were you were confident even at this point, even early in dealing with um the WWF and their process that you you did a good job of laying out there, you know, there's different ways to approach it. Sometimes you won't hear from from from a while, and that can be okay. Uh you were confident with who you knew, who knew you, who you had been in contact with enough to just kind of let it be and focus on what you were doing in West Virginia and and and then you know, your your own matches and that, you know, everything that comes with the travel and all that. You were you were good. You were feeling good about where you were.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I was feeling feeling decent about it. Plus, I was still young and I knew I had my whole twenties were still ahead of me. You know, so that was I had I I didn't have to get in a rush. Now, of course, everybody gets in a rush and they want it immediately. And you want to work Madison Square Garden and be on the main event, and you wanted it yesterday. But you gotta put that in realistic time frame, and that was I had plenty of time to still get my my game home. My game was pretty on point, but I could always do better and you know, get my body in better shape and having better matches, and uh that was that was what I concentrated on at the time, and uh, but with the eyes on on the WWF. But you know, I probably would have worked more what they ended up doing during this time, worked more for the WWF. Strongbow, they retired Strongbow. So he he uh took uh he he retired and left and Cornette took over, and you would say, well, that'd be great. He's booking the enhancement talent. Well, that's when Cornette tells me that he's working on something to just hang loose and work as many matches as possible. That he doesn't want me coming in and doing TV every week. So that was a plus, but also a you know a negative, sort of, because I probably if Strongwell was there, I probably would have worked up up there and done TVs like I did everywhere else as much as possible, and they would have aired him. So, you know, I might have been more of an enhancement guy than you know what I was if I'd have went that route. And then like I said, I thought for sure. Because I could get Cornette on the phone anytime I wanted. That was, you know, that was great. Um, but he had said, hey, uh he didn't give me any details. It as we went on, he progressed, he would give me as I need to know details. But I was told just hang loose that he's working on something and do not come up and do all these jobs.
SPEAKER_00I see. And that I'm assuming that would end up being the developmental deal with Danny Davison over the correct.
SPEAKER_02Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, which we'll get into plenty. Oh, yeah. Not only we're we're we're creeping up on a long time from now that we're talking about that on Making the Towns, and I'm very interested to get there.
SPEAKER_02Um it's a great time period, isn't it?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean, and I I don't know enough about it, you know. I remember I was very heavily listening to Cornett's podcast when he did some of those deep dives, you know, and it was like a few weeks in a row, he was diving deep into um that some of that time period in OPW and the big shows, you know. Yeah, um, you know, it's just some of the best podcast scene I've ever heard.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um he is he's immaculate with his note keeping and his memory. And yeah um, you know, man, we just don't want to go too far down that road again, but I'm I'm really excited to start hearing. Um I'm hoping there's some nuggets that are gonna come up on making the towns that I don't know already. Right. Um and and I just, you know, I'm confident, you know, having, you know, we're again we're we're 10 episodes into this now, and I'm confident that there's stuff that's gonna come up. Um whether you it it you know a bell goes off when you're doing making the towns or or it comes up on this show, there's gonna be stuff I don't know. Yeah. And I'm I'm I'm dying to know more about that whole that whole time period because it's fascinating. Um I mean, my best friend was there, yeah, but you know, my best friend was there, and also John Cena was there, and Batista was there, and Sheldon Benjamin was there, and Brock Lesnar was there, and Jim Cornell. You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_02Like there was just it's a it's an endless list, isn't it?
SPEAKER_00Well, and just for all those guys to come out of that same place in that same time period speaks to what was really going on there and what you were a part of, you know what I mean? Yeah um and and and I I just yeah, I'm I'm dying to get there. So uh great stuff, yeah. Good stuff. Good to hear that that you had your end there with Cornette. I forgot at this point that he was that was part of his job up there. Um so yeah, so now we're starting to now we're starting to hint to what's really coming after a couple of steps down the road. Um But man, he had to be putting you on like that for a while.
SPEAKER_02It was, it was, and there was a year, almost a year stretch where I went to talk because he got busy. So I went to talking to him once every week, every two weeks, to maybe twice a year for that one year.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Talk about getting paranoid, you know, not to get too far ahead, but you know, I'd worked all the shows I could work. You know, the the independence, I could use some more money, you know. There it was the whole mental thoughts of, well, let's if we're gonna do this, let's do this. Why are we not doing this? You know, is is it me? Am I have I been left out? That was the big one. Have a because you know how wrestlers get there, you know, you give them an inch and they'll take 14 miles. So it was like, my gosh, uh, did I do something? Did I piss somebody off? You know, you don't know. But looking back, it just took that long to get it, the the the pieces in place to make OBW work. And Corney was busy doing like three jobs at one time up there.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, for sure. For sure. Um so kind of pivoting away from uh from
Getting Over In Your Own Hometown
SPEAKER_00that, uh, your aspirations. Um you talked about, so you get to work Oak Hill, West Virginia for the first time. Um your actual legit hometown. You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_02Like Yeah, the town I grew up in.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, the small town you grew up in. Uh another another one of these towns that this one was a little different because you're off you're an offshoot of an actual kind of big town in the outskirts, but you're still one of those small dots on a map that that wrestling thrived in.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um, and you talked about the quote from the Bible and how you've had so much difficulty over your career getting getting over in Oakill. And you went into it a little bit, but I just want to dig really, really, really deep into that. Okay. Because I don't know, man. I don't even know what my question is. I just it it resonated with me so much. Um you know, you have encouraged me to start talking a little bit more about myself uh on this show because it is both of us. Yeah. So without getting too in the weeds, I, you know, for anyone who doesn't know, I play music. I'm a singer-songwriter. Um wrestling was always something I wanted to do, so when I got the opportunities to do it, I I would, but you know, my main focus creatively for really my whole adult life has been music. And um, I recently decided I was gonna take a little break. I was thinking about you know, letting my website go and just kind of scaling down the effort I was putting into it. Um because uh I'm working full-time and I like my job a lot, and that's kind of my main priority now. And um, I wasn't playing shows as much, and you know long story short, I was I was thinking I was gonna start winding down and maybe doing it less and less, or or maybe not at all anymore. Was just gonna kind of take a break and see how I felt about it. Um and around the same time, I had the great opportunity that I'm so grateful for to be featured one of my songs on a really popular podcast called Welcome to Night. And um it's a big part of what they do. It's uh you're the weather report. You know, they picture the weather and it's a song, and I was picked to be the weather report. And so since then, I have uh my my my numbers on streaming apps and stuff has really increased. Um not to a you know level that means anything to very many people, but to me it means a lot because 86 people listening to me in a 30-day span is a lot more than between two and five. Um, and that's the type of jump we're talking about. So uh so and I and I it's just it's so gratifying for me to see that real growth outside of my home area because I've been beating my head against the wall, predominantly only performing within a couple hours of where I live for so long. And there's a lot of reasons why there's a lot of things I don't really understand about it, but but I've had similar trouble, and it seems like every time I branch out in any way, it goes really well. Um yeah, it just resonated with me so much to hear you say that here you were going to all these different places, and um total strangers were treating you like you were a huge deal, and then at home they just kind of knew you too well, you know what I mean? They they were too familiar with who you were as a person, and you know the the the mentality is just different, you know, and and it's it's it makes sense, you know what I mean? And it's not it's not that the people that you're friends with or that you grew up with or that you you know do whatever when you're at home with it's not that they don't believe in you, and it's not that they don't respect what you've done. It's just hard to view someone as that when your your your deeply rooted like initial impressions were something totally different. Right. You know what I mean? Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, they uh yeah, I I I think one of the things was that because I haven't had I graduated with a very large class. We had 55 um kids to graduate in my senior class, and we had 41 of those boys and girls were athletes. They played some type of sport, whether it was a major sport or or uh you know an offshoot sport. So everybody was involved in something. It was one of those towns where, you know, the term tiger mom when it came out, I was like, shoot, they've had that in Oakill for years, years, because they make us kids do everything up there in Oak Hill. And um it's it weren't, it was I mean, there were some haters. Don't get me wrong, there's always going to be haters, and I'd love to name their names, but I'm not. But, you know, there's a handful of them. But then you then you had another handful of people that followed and watched you all the time, that knew your career better than you did sometimes. Like you'd be sitting at the bar and having a beer with them, and they would start asking you questions about matches, and I was like, You were there? And they were like, Yeah, we drove to so and so and saw you. And uh I I was like, Well, why didn't you say hi? And they're like, Well, I didn't want to bother you and all that. But I think the majority of the people, it's just uncomfortable for them for the very reason, you know, they may know you from Little League, or they may know you from grade school when you did something stupid, or, you know, anywhere, or you went out with my cousin and you all had a bad breakup. You know, you're a good guy, I like you, but you know, we're still mad at you from 1982. You know, and I think that's what the majority of of them were. Um but I do believe, and I say this with comedy, I don't know for sure, but I think all of them at least watched me wrestle once. Um, whether it was on TV or they came to an armory show or they hit one of these little shows. Because everybody seemed to always know a little bit. You know, it was it's that it's that whole oh, I don't watch wrestling, but let me tell you what happened the last six Mondays. It was kind of like that. It's like, oh well, we s we're sorry we haven't got out to see you, but uh we hear that this match was pretty good. You know, that kind of thing. Right. But uh but the people that didn't know me that started coming out in Oak Hill, because one of the things that happened in Oak Hill was Mount Hope was a suburb uh well it was another town over, but it was almost like it was a suburb of Oakhill. And it was a smaller um the economy there was less than Oakill. So you had them migrating slowly over the years to Oak Hill. Nowadays, nobody is from Oakill. They've all moved away. Everybody is from Mount Hope that live in Oakill. So I go now, I don't know anybody, you know. But so those people coming over built, I was able to build a fan base with them. So I found an audience that would help draw at Oakill. But let's be honest, let's be brutally, brutally honest. You want to show off in front of the the people you went to high school with. I wanted them to see me. I wanted every girl who didn't go out with me to see me in my little brief trunks and go, and my blonde hair and go, wow, we missed the boat on that one. You know, but you know, that's that's ego and all that stuff. But uh, man, those were some fun days building Oak Hill, and and that day was was big for me. And we had a we had a really good match, me and Troy. And like I said, that's on YouTube, as well as video clips as part of one of the early videos uh of just mine and his feud. Um a lot of clips in that. But uh, you know, Troy as a wrestler took all of my moves. He showcased me. The problem was the heat. He didn't have enough moves of his own, which is a callback to what he could have learned at Bose. Um so I had to really work hard to get the crowd that was there into the match because of his lack of experience and being able to get the heat. Um But we would but we always seem to have a good match, and we always seem to have a big finish. And I just remember my music's playing at the end of the night, and I'm standing in the ring, and I'm like, yeah, man, this is cool. This is really, really cool. This is a milestone, this is something I wanted to reach since I was a kid.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. So, I mean, at least for that night, you know, I don't guess it really mattered. I mean, you got over with the crowd that was there, so you know, what did it matter if if anybody else was there or not, you know?
SPEAKER_02Um when when I also go ahead. Sorry. I'm I'm stepping all over you today.
SPEAKER_00It's okay. It's okay. I'm gonna turn a hard left here. So so if this is it, finish your thought and I'll go and I'll go hard left.
SPEAKER_02When I I was a lifeguard in high school, my junior and sophomore year, I was a lifeguard at the 4-H camp. And we had kids there that we raised that their they either lived right there by the the pool or their mom would drop them off. And we basically raised them. It was me and we I was anywhere the ages were 15 to 25 of the lifeguards that worked there. Great job, awesome job. I love working for Jack Gannon. He's passed on. If anybody remembers Jack Gannon, he's salt of the earth. Just one of these guys. But uh, we had a uh a show at the armory, and I had left tickets, uh, just a couple of free tickets at the ticket outlet for a couple of the boys that I grew up uh at the pool with that were coming. Twenty-six of them showed up, they bought tickets. Twenty-six of my kids that were grown adults now showed up to watch me wrestle, and that meant a lot to me. They it just seemed, I mean, it was 26, it wasn't a lot of people coming in the door at one time, but to me it just seemed like that line of those kids coming in were just endless. I couldn't believe that they had all met up somewhere, went and got tickets, and drove up to watch me wrestle, man. That was that was a cool moment.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that is cool. That's that's a that's that's really I'm glad you shared that. That's uh that's top-notch stuff right there. And I changed my mind. I'm not gonna swerve hard left. Okay. Yeah, we're we're we're good. That was I that was much better. I'm glad I let you say that. Derail this entire episode. Um I mean, I don't know, man. Sometimes you just sometimes you think you got it under control and you just you don't.
SPEAKER_02You know what I mean? Oh yeah. I've been there. I've worked Eddie Edmonds. I've been there.
Switching Heel And Face Pre-YouTube
SPEAKER_00Um so you know, you're you're you're running into Bo James so much that the first time you mentioned him in episode 10 of Making the Towns, you didn't even put his last name on. You said, Yep, work Bo. Yeah, yeah. As if, as if, as if to say, you know, if you're listening to this podcast, you know who I'm talking about. Like I don't even need to give the full name anymore. Um when I say Bo, that's what I mean. Yeah. Um, but you know, you're tagging with him some nights, you're working against him some nights, uh, you're a baby face some nights, you're a hill other nights. And I just want to get into a little bit sort of explaining how you're getting away with that. Because I think we get so wrapped up in the here and now that we forget there was a time not all that long ago where not everybody was walking around with a camera in their pocket that they could shoot video with, and then with the push of a few buttons, they could show it to the entirety of the world.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, they uh I mean internet was around in '95 and '97, and those are America Online was breaching it's, you know, starting to be very, very popular. Before that, it was just prodigy. So the internet wasn't a big deal on the independence. You might get the results somewhere on a message board or something. I mean, they really hadn't even perfected video. There was no YouTube, there was nothing like that. I mean, you could watch video, but it had to be very, very small files. And uh it would pixelate a lot and all this stuff. So there wasn't the exchange of information, so I could go to a town and be a babyface one night, and they would never even know it when I was a heel at the next town. And uh it it it was a lot of good creative things back then because you could do that, you know, and again, we're not we're not we're not putting down the new kids, we're just explaining how it was different. A lot of times now we've ran into kids that are like, Oh, I'm a babyface. I have to be a babyface, or I have to be a heel. And we're like, well, we need you to do this. And they're like, Well, I can't. And and men you always look at each other like, are you shitting me? Like, like you gotta be kidding me. But they've got such a following online that they have to try to keep continuity that way. We did not have to do that back then. Um, there were the sheets, which I guess is the equivalency of the pre-internet era, which is you know the observer and uh the torch and all that. But that was for people that were smarter about the business and actually knew about those. Not everybody knew about those either. So it would that would probably be the closest thing where you could figure it out, but it still didn't spell it out. You had to figure out who was what and then see if they if they changed. Um but it just it it it well rounded me to not be doing the same thing. The later on in like OBW where I would be a heel for a year and a half, it it was different when I had to be a babyface. Um you know, so it was it it was good and you kept it fresh and it was like playing new songs uh every night. And you could, you know, could I get over with this crowd? Can I, you know, can I can I make them cheer for me and sell some pictures? And or can I make them hate me and damn near start a right and make them cheer this guy when you know in reality he's 180 pounds and hasn't trained. But uh let's let's make them believe. And that that was the creativity that you could use on the independence back then that was just so much more fun. I guess it was a little bit more wide open, but man, they were fun.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and I mean at that point, what you just laid out about the the only thing really being the message boards and the and the observer and the torch and and the the the dirt sheets, you know, um that that were around at that point, that very few people, you know, percentage-wise, you know, percentage of the total audience were were you know had access to or were interested in. Um even if you're on TV in different areas, if there's no overlap in the the um the broadcast area, yeah, you could be a heel on one and a baby on the other, and be team with foe on one and against him on the other. Because the chances of people seeing both were so slim.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Probably, I mean, i it was an impossibility. You know what I mean? Unless you were trade tape trading at a level that uh I don't Know existed. You know what I mean? Yeah. At the time, you know, you would have to somehow know everybody that had TV anywhere and be getting all those takes somehow.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00It just it just didn't happen. You know, you could like you said, you could just get away with it. Um and it allowed you to, in a shorter period of time, learn lots of different ways of doing it. You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_02Yeah. And a lot of good little tricks that if something fails to fall back on that are, you know, time-tested sure things that'll work, that if you get out there and nothing's working, you can use these things, these tools to uh to get the crowd back into it. But uh you know, go ahead.
SPEAKER_00Sorry, go ahead.
SPEAKER_02Well, what I was gonna say was is one of these, I don't know if it was I want to say it was the the WFIA, um, because I had gone to that convention in Nashville and somehow got on their mailing list. And I guess this was about the time that fans were getting smarter, starting to get smarter to the to the business with uh dirt sheets and internet and stuff like that. And my dad got a glossary of terms. They mailed it to me, but it was just folded up, and so he opened it to see what it was, and it was a glossary of terms. And I had never smartened my dad up to how the wrestlers talk. Now he would pick up stuff because guys would stay at the at the house, and he would know he could he could figure out what some of the stuff meant. But he now had a glossary of terms, and boy, he he memorized them. And I came home and he started talking like the boys in the business, and he had it, but it was so weird. It was like he was talking Chinese to me, and I was like, I wasn't offended, but I was kind of offended, like, who smartened you up? You know, and I said, Where did you learn that? And he showed me the list, and I was like, Oh my god. So from that moment on, he he talked like a wrestler and stuff. So, but it was so funny that when I first heard that, it was like a foreign language, even though that's the language I had been speaking for years.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Uh I'm I'm glad that you brought up your dad there. Uh great story, but it also kind of um segues
The Family Angle Regret
SPEAKER_00right into my next thing I had in my notes. And that is, I just I want to know did you immediately like as soon as it happened regret the family obligations angle, or was that something that you kind of had to set in like no in the middle of it, I regretted it.
SPEAKER_02It was it was horrible. Uh my parents were almost in tears. It it it was it was poorly conceived, it was not booked right to begin with, and I did a crummy job of executing it, and it was just a dead segment from moment one, and it went south from there. And I just in the middle of it, I was like, never again. Not gonna do this ever. That's not my you know, that's that's not my thing. I'll leave that to the heart family.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Because it was air, it was air, it was trying to force something there that wasn't there. It was trying to portray that we were this big, you know, cohesive, loving unit. And that wasn't my family. I mean, it just it just wasn't. And they weren't good enough actors. I was not a good of uh react good enough at reacting to their non-acting, and it just it was it was terrible. I'm just thankful nobody recorded it. Because it's bad. It's uncomfortable.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. You you you you you use the term uncomfortable, you know, when you talk about it. Um I'll make it sound, and I just you know I had a feeling that was gonna be your answer, but I just wanted to touch on it, you know, because um you know, and and you've made it clear this this podcast, this this venture is about the professional side of your life. Right. People are well people are welcome to read your book and and watch more and watch watch more through the the the documentary uh if they want more on the personal side of this, but uh thought it was interesting that this was even something that got to the point of actually doing it and performing it because I know the relationship with your family and and it just did not see it, it just to me it felt like oil and water involving them directly.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Well, that Bo had come up with the idea, and I kind of like the idea when it was on paper, but it was poorly conceived. We didn't put enough thought into it. It was just like, oh well, that sounds cool, let's try that. But but that's the way it was at Bo's, is well, let's try it. What the hell? It can only just go wrong, you know. Um, we didn't know it was gonna go horribly wrong like this one did. But um, you know, we just Bo was suggested, and I was like, what the hell? Let's try it. And I and I shouldn't have done that. I shouldn't have put everybody in that position, you know, for all that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, but like we like we were just talking about, you're trying things out. You're kind of you know, you're you're you're just kind of trying to do as much different stuff and be as you know as creative as you can night in and night out.
SPEAKER_02Well, you know, I I I was a big Bret Hart Mark, and you know, he's got the Hart family gimmick, and my mom used to be a model, and uh she used to model clothes for JC Pennies and leggets and stuff like that, and my dad's full of shit, so I thought, well, this might work, you know. It just it's just two totally different things, putting them in front of people and without a script. That's another thing. We didn't write anything, it was all kind of ad lib. And you know, you can't bring people in from out of the business and tell them to ad lib. It just it's not fair to them. Um, and that was part of it too, is I kind of felt like this is bad, this is kind of burying them, and I that's not fair to them for me to put them in that position, and I kind of felt bad about it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Yeah. Were I mean were they cool afterwards?
SPEAKER_02Or oh yeah, we all went and got something to eat. Nobody said a word about it. I don't even know. We never talked about it. I uh I don't know if they even noticed anything. I mean, hell, ten minutes prior to that, my dad thought I was getting ready to fight ten guys. So he was he was really into it, and he never did that. He never got into the matches to where it overtook him. And that night he did and threw me that, and those pennies went everywhere, threw me that roll of pennies, and I don't know, I don't know what he wanted me to do with them. I mean, but you know, there was pennies everywhere. I just think it's great that your dad had a roll of pennies. Oh, we carried them everywhere in case he had to hit somebody. Yeah, we're we're lucky it's not quarters.
SPEAKER_00That just occurred to me, by the way. Just occurred to me that your dad just happened to have all in his person in the roll of pickings.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, in his pocket. For that very reason. He probably secretly just wanted me to hit somebody with him. Can you imagine me hitting Bo with a with a roll of pennies? Oh, that would have been funny.
SPEAKER_00Oh man. Well, yeah, because if you'd have knocked Bo out, then the boys would have felt more comfortable diving for the pennies like they really wanted to.
SPEAKER_02Well, you know they wanted to. There was more than they were gonna make at night anyway.
1-800 Collect Tour Chaos
SPEAKER_00Oh man. Oh, so something else we talked about on on this episode uh was the 100 uh collectors. 1800 collectors. Yeah, and you do your first couple uh shots on that tour uh work and go, and and you talked about that. You told you told a great story about uh from from the the tour, and and I just know you love these and you you you did a few of them. I want to give you an opportunity to tell any and all 1-800 collect tour stories.
SPEAKER_02Okay, well, the uh the the best was is Jay. I I'm so glad when I got to Canada, and we'll talk about that later, um, I was on tour with um with Jake Roberts, and he was cool as hell, and we we struck up a friendship and rode with each other and stuff, and he was such a great guy because he had his demons under check. At the 1-800 Collector, he did not have his demons under under control. And he was sitting there preaching to Greg Valentine. So if anybody knows Greg Valentine or has met Greg Valentine, there's a delay when he speaks. So there's the moment where you should speak, and then there's about a 30-second pause, and he'll say something, and then he'll it'll pause again, and then he'll speak, he'll finish the sentence. That's just the way Greg is. And you gotta kind of wait, and you gotta kind of know him and get used to it to get in the cadence to have a conversation with him. And um so Jake was preaching to him in the middle of the every time he would take a pause, Jake would take a handful of uh of hydrocodones, and he would turn and go right back to preaching about how he had been saved and clean and all this, and poor Greg was just trying to get a word in edgewise to just stop this madness, and this thing went on for like 15-20 minutes, and Jake is hammered, and he's just a preaching and going and everything, and I just sat there and was had my mind was blown that he was he was doing that. It was just incredible. Um and he didn't stay long on the tour. Um, he stayed long enough, but he didn't stay very long. Um, but things like that happened. Um one of the stories that I want to go ahead and tell, I was gonna save it for the last date of the of the 1-800 Collect. But the reason the 1-800 Collect got short was is there was a cut short, there was a uh a t-shirt that had everybody on the front. And it had 1-800 Collect and whatever their phrase was. Well, they were selling them for $25 at the uh shows, and Brian Knobbs got pissed, and he was like, Where's our cut of these shirts? Because they were selling tons of them, and I'll go into why they were selling tons of them here in a minute. And uh Brian Nobb, the guy uh Thomas Reader basically it was Thomas and Brian Knobbs in the hallway and myself, and I was acting like I wasn't paying attention, and he offered a couple hundred bucks, Thomas Reader, to Brian Knobbs to basically shut up and not say anything about it. And Brian Knobbs would not take the $200. He says everybody needs to get paid for these shirts or don't sell them. So Thomas Reader goes out and instead of selling the shirts, he starts handing them out for free. Brian Knobbs was livid and tried to basically hold up the show by having the boys go on strike. And then he ended up leaving and taking the WWF guys with him, and the show, the tour fell apart because they they didn't have the stars anymore all over these t-shirts. But um see they have Hell Week where they go out, this is their graduation, and they go out in the woods and they they they do simulated war games, and they don't uh my understanding is they they eat rations, they don't sleep very much, and it's just hell, hence the name. They literally would come back in out of the woods in their fatigues, and they would file into the auditori or the the gym, these huge gyms, and we would have the show. And some people would clean up and come back real quick, but most of them were in their fatigues, and it was the whole base. And they had money to spend, and they got the they had pizza and um candy bars and soda and all this stuff for them to buy from the PX right there in the gym. So they came in and got the first bit of food that they had tasted in seven days, the first drink that wasn't recycled rain water. And right after they got that sugar high, they wanted to buy merchandise to remember the moment because they survived. So they would buy these shirts. We sold merchandise as fast as we could put them on the table. Uh, everybody, from the WWF guys all the way down to me. And uh it was just an incredible experience to see these guys and girls come out of the woods and just change on a dime and be so happy, and they were so responsive. I remember uh later on I worked KC Thunder and I took one finger at my hip and just started moving it. And I didn't move anything else, just my finger. And the crowd started chomp uh stomping and clapping with it, and I actually got the entire room up cheering by just moving one finger, and I was like, wow, that's cool. That is super, super cool because I had never experienced anything like that. But a lot went on on the 1-800 collectors, uh, a lot went on after hours at the 1-800 collectors, but it was uh because those bases are wide open, man. Like I said, they got that one strip that's got everything on it, and I was not aware of you know the services that are provided on that strip in every one of these base towns. But um, it was just so fun, and uh, you know, it just it was it was a great experience. I'm so glad that uh James McCone got me booked on it and got me hooked up with Thomas Reeder.
Boogie Stories And Merch Table Math
SPEAKER_00Fantastic. So I've got one last uh bullet point in my notes from episode 10 of Making the Towns, and uh that is just so Boogie's finally hanging him up, allegedly.
SPEAKER_02Allegedly, that's what he says. I mean, I've been through this three times. I remember when it was like 40 years in wrestling, and it's like what 70 years? I don't know. I'm just joking. But no, I remember his his first retirement, and you know, I think there's been three after that, and I know he a few years ago he had the last match tour, but yeah, he says he's finished, and and I believe him this time.
SPEAKER_00Well, I mean, the man is what, 83?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, 83, 83, still spry, still got all of his faculties, still full of shit. You know, one of my favorite people in the world. Love him to death. They don't uh they didn't even have a mold. He was just created out of stardust. That's how special he was.
SPEAKER_00He was free-formed, man. There was no mold. There was no mold to break. Uh solid gold, man. Love me some boogie. Uh great, great guy.
SPEAKER_02I came over, and you know, I always don't look like myself because I'm aging. My hair is always different. There are most of everybody that knows me is used to the blonde hair in some form or fashion. I do not have any of that now, uh, except for aging. So he was at that signing that I did, that first signing a few last month or a few weeks ago. And I went up to him and I put my arms around him, and and he knew he knew me. And he knew that I knew him. And he looks over for a second at my table to try to figure out who the fuck is this guy. You know, because he's older and we don't see each other a lot. And he sees my name and it hits him. And he just puts his arms around me and we just hug, and he is like, Oh brother, I didn't recognize you. I was like, I know you didn't. But he just told each other we loved each other, and just we just had a blast at that show. Sat our tables next to each other, and it was good. I always loved seeing Boogie.
SPEAKER_00And you want it, you want your table to be next to Boogie Woogie Man Jimmy Valley's table.
SPEAKER_02Yes. Here's here's a lesson for all you youngsters out there. You want your table to be next to the biggest draw at that event because that guy's gonna charge some amount that's gonna be an odd number. And you want to price your merchandise accordingly to what it the odd numbers of what's left over from the bills that he charges or that person charges, so that you get the runoff. So say the guy buys something that's $35, that's five dollars out of $220. You need to have something for $5. You're you're almost automatically going to sell something because they're going to turn and go to the next table when they're done. They're gonna be happy. They've just got to see their, you know, one of their favorites or a hero or something, the person they came there to see. And they're gonna have that money still in their hand because they haven't had time to put it in their purse or wallet. And you had that item sitting there, don't be pushy, like here, here, buy it, buy it. Just just sit back. They will look at that uh item being closest to the edge of the table, and when they ask, How much is this, you say five dollars. And you have sold it, and it'll work every single time.
SPEAKER_00And if I can just add real quick have something price-wise for everybody have have buttons or stickers that are a dollar, have your five dollar item, have your twenty-dollar item because you'd be surprised you might have nights where you don't sell the twenty dollar the twenty-dollar t-shirt or the uh forty-dollar hoodie or whatever it is, but you might sell enough one and two dollar stuff to go, oh, I actually did okay. Yeah, because not everybody's gonna spend twenty, forty, fifty, fifty dollars. But they might spend five dollars or a dollar.
SPEAKER_02I I remember I went to uh um oh Mountain City, um North Carolina, North Carolina, is that where it's at? Anyway, one of the Tennessee. Tennessee. Okay, and it was a smaller show, and uh people were buying stuff, but they were buying other people's stuff. They weren't really buying my stuff, and I had a dollar for foam fingers because I had a truckload of foam fingers. I sold $79 worth of foam fingers at a buck a piece. Made my gas money and my food money to get back home. You'll have nights like that, and that's you but you gotta know what to do and how to do it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Everything's business, man. You always gotta know what you're doing. Have fun by all means. Enjoy it because you'll never get to do it again. But always do business first. Always have business in mind. That is what you're there for. It is a job. It's a fun job, but it is a job.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, absolutely, man. Couldn't agree more.
SPEAKER_02So,
Sponsor Plug And What’s Next
SPEAKER_02all right. Well, I think we have reached, we went a little over, but that's okay. Um, this show has been brought to you by W Energy Drinks. Use promo code YOURCHAPING at checkout. Go to W.gg. Zero Sugar, no artificial colors or flavors, no secret formulas, no hidden ingredients. They ain't hiding nothing from nobody. What you see is what you get: gluten-free, sugar-free, for clean, sharp, smooth energy, mental focus, and they have a bunch of unique flavors. Built for anyone, 150 milligrams of caffeine per serving. Shifts worldwide, made in the USA. Also, go to IamYourChion.com and on the home page it has buttons for all of our socials. I won't we're running Little late, so I won't go through them all, but everything from Facebook to TikTok is on there, including our YouTube. Please go over and subscribe to the YouTube. We have all kinds of videos on there. We have hundreds of videos on there completely free. Please subscribe and hit the bell. And if you guys are listening to this episode, stay tuned because coming up next is our special bonus episode about the world fighting showcase. We're gonna leave you for now. I am your champion. I am your champion. Oh man, that's classic. I love it. I'm gonna climb that ladder of success all the way to the top.