We Break Down What Real Heat Means In Wrestling

A wrestling crowd can be the best part of the show or the thing that follows you home, and we get into both. We talk through the White Georgia riot story with the one question fans always ask: was the finish supposed to happen that way, or did the heat change everything? From there we get practical about match psychology, including the idea of “go home heat,” why we don’t believe heat is automatically bad heat, and how the balance of shine, heat, and comeback is what keeps the audience riding the wave instead of tipping into chaos.

We also zoom out to the bigger shift that changed wrestling forever: the early internet. Message boards gave a small group of people huge influence before performers had easy ways to respond, and we break down why the internet felt like a negative at first but becomes a net positive once technology and culture finally catch up. Along the way we get into old-school independent wrestling promotion without TV, from posters and school tickets to doing appearances in gear at a gas station, plus why enhancement talent and “job guys” are the glue that holds a roster together.

Then we open the vault on the stuff you asked for: the three worst opponents Brian ever had, what happens when a match turns into a shoot, and the difference between taking inspiration from TV and flat-out copying last week’s angle. If you enjoy real wrestling stories with real lessons, subscribe, share this with a friend, and leave us a review so more fans can find the ride home.

Transcript

Welcome Back And Show Format

SPEAKER_00 0:01

I am your champion. Oh man, that's classic. I love it. I'm gonna climb that ladder of success all the way to the top. Hello everybody and welcome back to The Ride Home. This is episode 11. I am your host, Brian Logan, along with my best friend, my colleague, my pal, Dallas Danger. Dallas, how are you this week?

SPEAKER_02 0:43

I'm doing great. Uh happy to be back and ready to talk some making the towns.

SPEAKER_00 0:50

Absolutely. Real quick, let me tell you what we've got a sister podcast called Making the Towns, where I was in professional wrestling for over 30 years. I kept journals for the entire time that I was in the business. And we're going through those journals on making the towns, and uh going through the money, the miles, the bumps, and the characters involved. And that's like going to a wrestling event and sitting there, me telling you about my career. And then this show, The Ride Home, is just as the name says. It's like the ride home from the wrestling show where I get questions asked to me based on what I've already said, and also things that just seem what I guess, interesting, or what am I looking for here?

SPEAKER_02 1:37

Interesting works. I think I'm, you know, any anything that I feel like you glossed over, or you know, if I feel like there's more to something, I'm gonna ask about it. I'm gonna try to figure out what more there is to it. If it's a person, if it's a place, if it's an event, any anything, anywhere that I feel like we could do some more talking, that's kind of what this show is for.

SPEAKER_00 2:06

And it's fun to talk once a week.

SPEAKER_02 2:09

It is, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:12

So, all right, without further ado with a doubt. Is that a word? A doubt? It could be. Ado? Is that the word I'm looking for? Without further ado. Then let's get started. We'll save all the uh who, what's, wins, and where's for the end. And uh like like uh it was intended to be done. So uh at this point I'm turning the show over to you, sir.

SPEAKER_02 2:39

Thank you,

Why The Journals Stay Professional

SPEAKER_02 2:40

thank you, thank you, thank you. So with episode 11, I feel like we're gonna be a little all over the place. Um, but I wanted to kind of start by saying I was surprised to hear personal life talk.

SPEAKER_00 2:56

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 2:57

And I know that it tied in directly to things in the book, right? But you had said, and I don't know that you ever you may have said this once through the course of starting making the towns in this podcast, and that was something you said to me multiple times at the outset, and that was you covered the personal side when you wrote the book and did the movie based on the book. Um, this was gonna be strictly the business side of things, you know. Um, so I just kind of want to give you an opportunity to maybe explain why you feel like we don't need to cover personal life aspects uh as we go through the chronology of these journals.

SPEAKER_00 3:55

Well, to start with, the uh when the book worker um came out, which was 2009, the uh I did a lot of podcasts to promote it, and I realized that the story to promote it takes about four hours to do it right. So it's either one long episode or four little decent ones. And I do not want to go into that much time on a story that's already been told and heard, and and at this point kind of irrelevant. Um think about that, pal. You write your life story down, and it's your calling card, it's your swan song, and then you go into a bunch of stuff after that, and you're like, Wow, that book kind of is irrelevant at this point. Not saying that it's not a good read or full of information that might be needed or anything like that, but to the guy I am today, that other than a couple of I'm sorry is about all that we uh uh need to cover from those times.

SPEAKER_02 4:58

For sure, yeah. And I mean, there's there's one massive flaw in worker as the story of your life.

SPEAKER_00 5:07

Okay, what's that?

SPEAKER_02 5:08

And that that's that I'm nowhere in.

SPEAKER_00 5:11

Well, of course, right. You come in, you come in work worker to the the beginning the next beginning, the the next chapter. Or uh we go to Manhattan. That seems to always be the sequel when you have no plot. Let's just go to Manhattan.

SPEAKER_02 5:30

Worker two, the Manhattan Voyage.

SPEAKER_00 5:35

On the streets of Manhattan, special guest stars by Jim Henson's Muppets. Babe, pig in the city, which is really kind of a cousin of it. It's been a long day. I'll give you the whole movie in a nutshell, pal.

SPEAKER_02 5:53

Let's keep this on the rails as much as possible. So the next big thing I wanted to talk about is the uh the riot in White Georgia.

White Georgia Riot And The Finish

SPEAKER_02 6:05

And you you laid everything out, what caused it.

SPEAKER_00 6:09

Um you you did a marvelous uh acrobat routine trip and played yeah, is a tight rope walking.

SPEAKER_02 6:25

But what I want to know is were you always supposed to lose that match, or did that get changed in the moment because of the heat?

SPEAKER_00 6:34

No, I was supposed to lose it. I mean, if I wasn't supposed to lose it, I would have won it no matter what the heat was.

SPEAKER_01 6:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:40

So I wouldn't have I wouldn't have gave them the the satisfaction of, well, I better do a job, but there's too much heat. There's no such thing as too much heat. Yeah. They they've told me over the years, Flex would tell me this all the time. He'd be like, that's go home heat. That's go home and stay there heat. You don't want that. I don't know if that exists. I mean, what do you think, real quick? Do you think there's such a thing as go go home and never come back heat?

SPEAKER_02 7:10

I don't know that I am really qualified to give a good answer on this, but here's what I do know. If there is, you have it with somebody.

SPEAKER_00 7:26

Right.

SPEAKER_02 7:27

Because you don't care to push the limits of that because you don't believe that that's such a thing. That there's that there is no limit. There is no cap on on heat or or I guess I guess you don't believe there's such a thing as bad heat. Heat is heat.

SPEAKER_00 7:48

Heat's heat. I agree. I mean, because you can always have the baby face make the comeback and lower it. Just you don't have enough strong baby faces nowadays. So that's the thing. You gotta keep a balance between the heat and the shine.

unknown 8:04

Right.

SPEAKER_00 8:05

So okay, anyway, back to your your questions.

SPEAKER_02 8:08

Well, no, no, no. We can we can go further down this road because I think I think part of the issue today with heat is uh something that I have a problem with um with a lot of modern wrestling presentation, and that is well, everybody knows. Everybody knows, so why should we act like they like they don't? And I'm a firm believer in a true fan, a real wrestling fan who's not just there for the for the clout for lack of a video, just to put it briefly so I don't go down a you know another tangent in the middle of this tangent. Um you know, a a true fan of the of

Go Home Heat And Match Balance

SPEAKER_02 8:55

the of the the art form, they want to suspend disbelief. They don't want to be reminded that this was all you know planned in some way, or it's not a real quote unquote fight. Um because that's why people watch Game of Thrones or read fantasy books or watch or read or indulge any form of entertainment they do is to turn their brain off and to escape from the real world.

SPEAKER_00 9:28

Right.

SPEAKER_02 9:28

And if you're constantly reminding them that this is not what it seems, then I don't know what's the point, I guess.

SPEAKER_03 9:41

Right.

SPEAKER_02 9:42

Um you know, so so I think I think this goes along those same lines of like people nowadays think, oh, well, you can't get too much heat because people are more easily offended, or there's there's more real world consequences. But if you understand the psychology of putting a match together or putting a segment together, or putting an entire night of entertainment together, um you can quell that just like you're saying, and you can turn it on its own ear if you are allowed to do so. And I think we just live in a society where whether it is from within the business or if it's from the outside from the fan perspective, there's less of an opportunity because you're not allowed to get that heat and then have the come up as and the moment of like, yeah, I wanted to see that guy get his ass kicked, and he just got his ass kicked by the guy I like better. Yeah, yeah. You know, and and it it sounds, I mean, I don't know. It it to me it's such a simple thing. I just it, you know, um, and it gets overcomplicated so much nowadays, and it's just you know, and that's and it is what it is, and that's fine. And and I'm not, I'm I don't I don't want to be, you know, we we take a lot of pride in not making ourselves the the guys who a bitch about the way things are, right? Um and I'm that's not what I'm doing here. I'm really just talking about um my personal taste when it comes to wrestling and what I believe would be, you know, and and and there and and you know I'll say this and I'll I'll wrap it up and we'll get back on track. But you know, I understand the the toothpaste is not going back in the tooth. Um it is what it is. This is the the the the current business is the business that we are left with, and we have to kind of do the best we can with what we've got, but um I think it would have benefited from, and we're gonna get into social media and the internet um and how it affected the business a little bit later um in my notes, but I really think we could have benefited from standing true in those principles and you know you can be a little offensive, don't be like over the top with it, but you can get some heat. You know, there's a way to do it and it'd be okay because, like you said, there's gonna be a comeback, and we're gonna, you know, especially in certain environments, like that's the whole point. Right. So, so yeah, I t I think I'm totally on board with what you're saying about all that.

SPEAKER_00 12:41

Well, it just and the thing that came to my mind too is is we live in a society today that I believe that people want to find value in everything and everybody. Instead of just it's just easier to say, okay, great, I accept this and move on, and then just gurgle about it down the road, and then just take however much you can take. And then with combined with a shorter attention span, when you have somebody, hey, hey, you ugly guy at ringside, you're so ugly that I can't even stand to look at you. And then I turn around and the guy, the baby face punches me in my nose, and I'm like, oh my god, he broke my nose, my nose swelled up. Now I'm the ugly one. They don't give time for that to mature. But but I still think, and this is the last thing I gotta say on it, is the toothpaste is out of the two, but you can fashion a nice new container with a sandwich bag around it and seal that thing up and keep it for when you need it.

SPEAKER_02 13:42

Absolutely. That was really well put. Yeah, I agree. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:47

So I just came up with that right off the top of my head.

SPEAKER_02 13:50

That was good.

SPEAKER_00 13:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:51

I was all right. All right, so so getting back to White Georgia. I want to know what for you in the moment, not even really looking back on it, but like in the moment, in your memory, as

Kayfabe And Modern Fan Culture

SPEAKER_02 14:05

best as you can recall, which of these was more uncomfortable? Was it New Jack in the trunk of your car in Kentucky, or was it driving home from this riot in White Georgia?

SPEAKER_00 14:18

Driving home from White Georgia, because I was by myself. I didn't have my brothers with me. And when they put me in my car because I was lived so close and no one was going that way, you know, uh, once I was out of police care, I was that was it. I was just happy that I was able to shake them on the four lane because I mean it was like a movie. Here comes the hillbillies in the trucks. And, you know, in an Atlanta freeway that you can go fast, but you can only go so fast. I mean, I can't do like a hundred. Harley Race is rolling over in his grave like now. What do you mean, kid, you can't go a hundred? Are you crazy? Anyway.

SPEAKER_02 14:55

He had a cigarette in one hand out the window, a beer in the other hand, driving with his knee with a little person at his lap.

SPEAKER_00 15:02

Yeah, absolutely. That's how you that's how Harley rolled, and and and it's a beautiful you look at it and it's America. If if if it had an eagle in it, they'd have made a movie about it.

SPEAKER_02 15:18

Oh man, I'm sure we'll talk footy about Harley down the down the road.

SPEAKER_00 15:22

Oh, yes. Yes. I got a doozy where he he likes to call people at a whims notice of just, well, let's call him. No, Harley, let's not call him right this second at three in the morning.

SPEAKER_03 15:35

Vince McMahon.

SPEAKER_00 15:37

Let's not do that. With using my name. I mean, if you wouldn't do your name, we'll call him right now, but don't be don't be using my name when you call Vince at three in the morning on my behalf. Right. To further my career. Um that's not even letting the story out. That's that's a new version of getting around it. So anyway, go ahead.

SPEAKER_02 16:04

Yeah, no, that's really tiptoeing around the details. That's that's a nice teaser for later. Um I just have to say, I love Miss Son Reno Riggins. Um of my top three favorite job guys of all time. And the other two are the gambler and Joey Mags.

SPEAKER_00 16:27

Yeah, three great guys right there. Three guys that I worked and could have teamed with. Gambler I didn't do anything with, but they talked about a team. Joey Mags, I teamed with, and uh then I worked Reno. So three guys that are just outstanding.

SPEAKER_02 16:45

Yeah, and I I I remember them all from you know, I remember Reno a little bit from Smoky Mountain, just a just a just a little. Because I remember seeing him on WCW and being like, oh, that's really cool, you know. I mean, he he always gets beat up, but he was getting beat up on Smoky Mountain, and now he's getting beat up on the big show, you know. Um, so that was very cool. But I remember all those guys from from WCW, the the old, like the last really good, sort of true national TV studio show. Yeah. You know, those old weekend syndicated uh WCW shows and Saturday night. Yeah. I mean, just really really good stuff. And um, they were nothing without the guys like you and Reno and Joey Mags and the Gambler going out there and doing the job. I mean, it was it wouldn't have been the sa without that. And you know, I I get why the business went the direction it did with stuff like that and enhancement matches, but uh it definitely felt different after that, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 17:51

Yeah, no, it definitely did. And uh I used to say when you've watched as much wrestling as I have over the years, where I watched everything every weekend for decades, the only thing sometimes that change in a sting match is maybe the tights and the opponent. So you start watching, you know, who's the jobber and what kind of tights are they all wearing, you know, because you you've seen so much wrestling and you know you can almost call the match, because some of those matches weren't as creative as the you know they should have been. But uh yeah, the the job enhancement guys were were awesome and so important to the overall product.

SPEAKER_02 18:35

Oh yeah, and for me as a kid, my goal in watching every bit of wrestling that I had access to was to collect as many guys in my head as I could. So watching Saturday night and then watching main event on Sunday or worldwide or whatever, you know, was they were running at the time and seeing all those enhancement guys that gave me the opportunity to like find out about new guys.

The Scariest Ride Home Memory

SPEAKER_02 19:05

And I was all about that, you know what I mean? Especially guys that that that were so great and so uh, you know, I mean the gambler, uh a job guy with a gimmick, yeah, a dream come true for me. Oh yeah, um, you know, just incredible, just just fantastic. Um so so yeah, and and you know, I I give you a lot of grief about um about that aspect of your career, but but you know, uh I think if you have spent any time in the business at a real level, you have more respect for those guys than anybody else that has anything to do with professional wrestling.

SPEAKER_00 19:43

Well, yes, absolutely. And one of the things that I always thought about just to myself when we would do squash matches in uh WFS, I mean I I had to get myself over. I was doing business, I was doing my job, my job was different than what it used to be. Now this time I was given the the uh the the bumps instead of taking them. But I always felt bad for the guys that weren't getting any offense. You know, they uh I've been there and I knew how that felt. And you know, I always tried to give them one thing they could hold their hat on. Well, if I could have got that extra punch in there, then I could have won, you know, that kind of thing. But but yeah, it's uh it's a crucial part of uh of the business on any level except for WWE.

SPEAKER_02 20:31

Yeah, and I encourage during the WFS tapings, with the exception of one specific enhancement talent, and uh we can maybe get into him another day. But with one exception, I wanted our job guys to get some offense because if if they got one thing and I really liked that one thing, next time they might get two things, or they might get a legit competitive match with a with a top guy, or I'd put two of them in there against each other and say, just we'll have an even 50-50 match, and here's the fence. Just to I mean that's how we built that roster, you know what I mean? Was by anybody that we brought in, I took a legit real look at and I wanted to see what they were capable of, and I wanted to hear them on a microphone. Um yeah, because again, I just if you're willing to come in and work three times in a taping for me and just get beat up the whole time, and you're gonna smile and shake my hand and thank me for the opportunity.

SPEAKER_01 21:37

I'm gonna I'm gonna do everything I can to make sure that that that goes better for you moving forward, and that's not just all you do, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 21:46

Absolutely, absolutely. And and it's how you tell these guys too in the modern day. You don't just come up and go, hey Joey, you're doing the job tonight, no offense, pal. That would be wrong. That would be not the way to do that. You would go up to Joey. And you would say, Hey man, I got this match tonight that you're in. Here's the situation. I'm building X guy to come up for me. And I'm going to beat him when he gets to me. But I need you to help him get to me by so you're helping me by doing the favor for him. So do you mind getting zero offense tonight so he can go over? And I'll make sure that when this comes back around, the favor is repaid to you. Now you do it that way, and you'll get exactly what you want.

SPEAKER_01 22:34

Right.

SPEAKER_00 22:35

And you gotta explain it.

SPEAKER_02 22:37

Right, exactly. And you almost have to go in with some remorse.

SPEAKER_00 22:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:43

With an apologetic tone. I I I know CM Punk tells a great story about when he worked Eddie Guerrero and was just doing a job. Maybe it wasn't CM Punk. Um, I don't remember who it was now that I'm thinking about it. But somebody who worked with uh Eddie Guerrero as an enhancement talent and said Eddie was just like, I'm so sorry, man. Like it's I know it's not going your way, but just keep working hard and keep doing what you're doing. And if I can ever help you, let me know. And you know, because you're helping me and you're feeding my family, and like just like really broke it down to the brass tax, you know, like you're talking about. And um Jimmy Jacobs, it was Jimmy Jacobs that told that story about Eddie Guerrero and and working him in a in a job match uh capacity and just how gracious he was, you know, and how he felt he said he felt good about it afterwards, you know. And it was that was during a time, especially, I think, where it didn't always feel good to go uh, you know, be in that role because you weren't always treated the best.

SPEAKER_00 23:57

Right.

SPEAKER_02 23:59

Um so you talked a lot about music city, and that was a promotion that went on for a very long time. They they are

Why Enhancement Talent Matters

SPEAKER_02 24:10

they still running music city shows?

SPEAKER_00 24:12

Um I know they they're running USA Wrestling, which was Bert's next um promotion.

SPEAKER_02 24:19

Okay, that's what I'm thinking. Yeah. Is what Bert Burt was doing USA.

SPEAKER_00 24:24

So that has a video library and all that, and that's why they're continuing those shows is to continue the library.

SPEAKER_02 24:31

Right, exactly. So um you had worked with Bert before um in the Ozarks, and I'm just kind of curious why was it if Bert's running Music City, why are you having to kind of start over and try out and and and do a taping with like a like a one-off, you know, rib of a neck?

SPEAKER_00 25:01

Well, he didn't have enough jobbers that night, that's why. And he needed some sucker that would look good and have a good match, come in and go, Yeah, you can bid me. So he said, Hey, why don't you come up for a tryout and do a job? And I knew what that meant. Oh, you're short. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 25:18

Yeah. But I love Bert.

SPEAKER_00 25:19

So if I'd I'd have done it, you know, I'd have stayed up there as a jobber. I, you know, I just wanted to work and be around, you know, the guys I like being around and get paid. And Bert was all of those things.

unknown 25:33

Right.

SPEAKER_00 25:34

But yeah, I suspect he just ran out of TV guys and was like, well, let's just hold him back two weeks and send him to Georgia for a month, and then he'll come back as a fresh guy. And Stephen Gregory is uh that's Steve Dahl's, Steve Dunn's real name.

SPEAKER_02 25:54

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 25:55

So he wrestled himself.

SPEAKER_02 25:57

You you said it was a rib, but you never explained the rib. And I was searching the the the far reaches of my brain for for a name I recognized, and I was like, no, I just don't know who this who's, but that makes a lot of sense. Yeah, the rib was he had to wrestle himself.

SPEAKER_00 26:15

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So and and they were pretty good matches if you they're available on the YouTube.

SPEAKER_02 26:23

Yeah, absolutely. Go check out the YouTube, subscribe. There's all kinds of stuff there. You can get these podcasts if you're not getting them on YouTube already. But uh there you go. There's half there's a half-ass plug for you, pal.

SPEAKER_00 26:36

Um thank you. Thank you, thank you so much.

SPEAKER_02 26:41

So, all the while you're still helping try to get this West Virginia venture off the ground with um Troy Fremmell, Eddie Edmonds, and uh, and you you introduced Jim Hawkins in episode 11. And I just want to talk about, and you might not actually know why, because it sounds like they left you in the dark and you were so busy that maybe you didn't even notice at the time. Um, as much as you can see now looking back, but why why didn't the two of them want to do TV? And and beyond that, how were they promoting these towns without a TV show?

SPEAKER_00 27:31

Okay, so they Jim Hawkins got um he had three things he wanted to do in life. He wanted to be a fireman, he wanted to learn to fly a plane, and he wanted to be a pro wrestler. And he had uh gotten some money. I don't know how, I don't I can't even speculate, whatever I would say would be wrong, but he had some money. And he didn't know which one of these things he was gonna do. He knew he was gonna do all of them. So he set up a time period. He was gonna start promoting wrestling as a promoter and a ring announcer and a halfwake commentator. Uh he's a great commentator, he just didn't commentate enough. Um He he gave himself a limited amount of time that none of us knew about it until the time was up. He never he never mentioned it. And then one day he's like, Oh, I'm gonna go hang out at the fire department, and he became a fireman. You know, we didn't we didn't know because he didn't tell us. And Troy had Christie. So Christie was okay with a couple weekends here to go to Pigeon Forge and hang out and work for Bo or go to, you know, get away and go stay at Jim's cabin up there in Kingwood and you know, do fun stuff like that on the back end of the wrestling show, and then promote a couple shows as long as they didn't lose money. But when it got to be serious, she flipped her wig. She just she just got all stressed out about everything. So you combine that with the fact that there's no computers to make movies except in Hollywood. You can't buy one. The TV station doesn't have one. The TV station is still editing on film. It's VHS tapes at that time or super VHS tapes, but they're still doing an analog where you have to cut cut an edit may take you three hours to tape it together and get the glue right. You know, so the cost for TV was astronomical. If you even found a place that understood what you were trying to do. Um course, you know, guys like Bert were in Nashville, so the TV stations

Music City Tryout And The Rib

SPEAKER_00 29:55

were different then in Nashville. So he had built-in TV, whereas West Virginia didn't have a clue what was going on. And they would promote the towns the old-fashioned way. They would go into the school and give them tickets, like the circus, you know, free this kid gets in free with a paid adult. Then they would put up hundreds of posters, big nice uh rainbow posters, and that's the name of the company Rainbow. They're the old school cardboard um rainbow colored posters. And uh we hung a lot of posters, man. We hung a lot of posters. Every show hanging posters. And that's just how we each it out and word of mouth, and then they might stick me, like in Clay, West Virginia, there's nothing in Clay. There's a Go Mart. I would do personal appearances the night before the show at the Go Mart. I'd put my tights on, they'd put on the on the thing where it says gas 69 cents or whatever it is. Um, Brian Logan, MSWA champion, here tonight, six to nine, or whatever it was. And I would stand there at Go Mart, and hey, we're gonna be having big time wrestling out at the high school tomorrow night. Uh, would you like to have a picture and maybe come out and see me tomorrow? And that's that's how we did it.

SPEAKER_01 31:17

Old school.

SPEAKER_00 31:18

Old school. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 31:21

So old school, so old school and predates television.

SPEAKER_00 31:25

Predates television, yeah. I mean, and you imagine a blonde-haired kid, uh young spandex, big hooker boots on, standing at your go mart, and here comes Ralph and Fred from the woods. They just come in to get their beef jerky and their uh Schlitzmalt liquor. And they're like, what planet is he from? And I had to deal with that. And my job I couldn't get into it with them. I had to get them at the show.

SPEAKER_01 31:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:56

So yeah, I did a I did a lot of those. A lot. Uh sometimes it was Walmart. Walmarts were better, they were easier. Stand out in front of a Walmart in your tights, hand out pliers the night before the show. Yeah. You know, that's that's just how we did it.

SPEAKER_02 32:17

So I want to get into the internet a little bit. And I mean, this is right at it's it's fascinating. And I I've I this is what I've been looking forward to the most about about you going through the books on making the towns and us having a chance to talk about it every week here on the ride home. Is I've heard so many of your stories and know so much about your career,

West Virginia Without TV Promotion

SPEAKER_02 32:50

but this is putting a lot of things on a timeline. And the that timeline lines up with other timelines. So you are now a handful of years into your into your career. You've talked multiple times about good conversations you had that that made you feel comfortable in the fact that you just needed to keep doing what you were doing, and you were gonna get your dream job.

SPEAKER_00 33:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:18

Um, but at the same time, the entire world as we know it is starting to change because here's this thing called the internet, the world wide web. And seemingly overnight, everybody now has this in their home, and everybody's got a home computer, and you know, we're we're learning about all these things that we never knew before, like downloads and you know, uh floppy disks, which I think there's probably people listening that that are so young that they don't know what a floppy disk is.

SPEAKER_00 33:58

Right, right.

SPEAKER_02 34:00

But I want to know in 1998 when this is first starting to take hold, and it obviously is because you're talking about promotions. I mean, you talked about one promotion in particular that wasn't even doing anything. They were filming, but it was only for the internet, which was like super primitive video at the time. I mean, that that's something that that's something that the big companies didn't even really dabble in that much because it was so far out there, and it would be a few more years until YouTube was even like started.

SPEAKER_00 34:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:39

So in these small towns where you're predominantly working, what percentage of those fans do you even think had the internet at this point?

SPEAKER_00 34:51

Zero. I think the kids maybe knew what going to school and getting online were was, but I don't think they think anybody had it in their house. And I don't think that the at first, when the message boards come out, it I mean you had to read the message boards. So it's gonna take a special person to sit there for three or four hours just reading what people have typed. So that kind of outlawed kids right there because they're not gonna have the patience to sit there and do that, which was a good thing, because they could still believe. Um The bad side of that is is on a message board, you like today on Facebook, you want to defend yourself, you just cut a video and put it on Facebook, and people either believe you or they don't. Well, back then, if somebody said something and then there was 15 threads and you dared to even, or if you had the knowledge to know how to get on there and try to clear your name, 25 people would jump on you and bury you to where you couldn't even be read. And it was very primitive and they had a lot of power and they didn't know what to do with these message boards. And that's when they started figuring out, oh, we can get people canceled, way before cancel culture. Then we it w the first time someone got unbooked is when the shit hit the fan because of something that was on the on the um the message board. And I got a story for that when we get down the line, too, so that's a little foreshadowing.

SPEAKER_02 36:21

Okay, great. Um so you you talked in this episode about how you wished that social media was around when you were going through all these things back in the 90s, and how advantageous it would have been for you to be able to kind of get yourself over by you know doing live videos and things of that nature. But you almost immediately then say, Well, but we were doing it the right way, the way it's supposed to be done.

SPEAKER_01 37:00

Right.

SPEAKER_02 37:01

So I just want to open that all the way up, and I want your honest opinion. And I know that we can go back and forth on this, and if you want to, we can get into the pros and cons because there are pros and cons. But I'm talking net. Do you think the internet and social media has been a net positive for the wrestling business, or do you think it's been net a negative?

SPEAKER_00 37:30

I think it's a net positive because of where we stand today. I think the first decade, maybe even 20 years was a negative because people just didn't understand it and technology hadn't caught up with us. But I think as we stand today, I think it's a positive

Early Internet Boards And Power

SPEAKER_00 37:50

because there's so many things you can do with it now. Like this podcast.

SPEAKER_02 37:58

Yeah, yeah. I mean I think we've I think we've gotten past the point of this dream world, and I'm sure there are still some people that are caught in this, but I think we've I think we've hit a point now where does WWE lean more into that side of things than they used to? No question. Absolutely no question. However, they've also found a way to balance it.

SPEAKER_00 38:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:35

And they they seem to they seem to garner an environment for their talent where the talent is a little more closed off when it comes to social media. And I don't know if that is a direction, if that is just the type, it's just a common thread in the type of individuals they like to employ at a high level. But it just seems like they've got it figured out how to balance it and say, yeah, this is here, and we know we can't do anything without it finding its way online, but they also know we're gonna do this wacky, crazy thing that people don't expect on a house show, knowing that a fan cam video of it is gonna get online that night and people are gonna be talking about it. So I think we we're past this dream of like, oh, well, whatever the internet wants, that's what's gonna get presented. Because is AEW still a thing? Yes, it is. Am I glad it's still a thing? Absolutely, because it's more paydays and good paydays, and good you know, just good quality of life for more people in the industry, and that's never a negative. But I think the numbers are playing out in a way where no one who's thinking reasonably thinks that they are going to compete with or dethrone the WWE. And the the mentalities for the internet and social media are very different in those two companies, and and that's just the best juxtaposition I've got, you know what I mean? Yeah, um, and I think I think honestly, anybody else, at least in like how you deal with the internet, is probably copying one or the other.

SPEAKER_03 40:43

Right.

SPEAKER_02 40:43

You know what I mean? And striving to be one or the other, right um in that regard. So so yeah, I'm I'm I'm I it's a little interesting to hear you so like quickly without much thought say that you think it's a net positive, but when I really think about it and sit here and process it out loud, um I I do think it makes sense because yeah, I mean, just look at you know it's not it's not as difficult. You know, you just laid out how prohibitive doing TV in West Virginia was from a from a financial standpoint, from a you know technological standpoint, from a technical standpoint, from a having people that know how to operate these things standpoint, yeah. It just it wasn't something that just anybody could do. And now it is.

SPEAKER_00 41:41

Yeah, absolutely. See, I think the thing with um internet now and the people, the kids in the wrestling that are using it, um

Is Social Media Good For Wrestling

SPEAKER_00 41:55

the millennials and Generation Z, is that what I think they're they're being called? Is that the the most recent generation?

SPEAKER_02 42:04

No, there's there's more since then, but I don't want to get into into the Okay, well, the whole bunch of them.

SPEAKER_00 42:09

I they have grown up with the internet in their life. They were born after iPhones are a thing. So I think they are grown with the lesson like the stove. You know, hey, don't put your hand on the hot eye of the stove, it'll burn you and it'll hurt. Well, hey, don't make a complete jackass of yourself on the internet because somebody will find it and it will hurt. I think that would have been something that my generation, Generation X, would not have gotten at any point if we had the internet when I was early in my career. We would have showed everything wide open, balls to the wall, and it got us over, but it also would have probably gave us a lot of heartache looking back.

SPEAKER_02 42:58

Oh, yeah, no doubt, because there was a lot of stuff that had no business going on. And I think there's a lot of stuff that gets shown on social media now that has no business being on social media, right? But but you know, it's sort of like a I don't know, it's like a hole in the dam.

SPEAKER_00 43:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 43:20

You know what I mean? Once it's once it starts to crack, you can plug the hole, but eventually it's gonna crack and that hole's gonna get bigger.

SPEAKER_00 43:27

Yeah, you need some of that flex seal.

SPEAKER_02 43:32

Is that a free ad?

SPEAKER_00 43:34

Yeah, I'm plugging flex seal this week. I've often wondered on the new and improved see-through flex seal. How do you know if it's really, really working because you can't see if the bubbles are coming out from under it? Think about that. Okay, moving on.

SPEAKER_02 44:02

Uh you said if uh people wanted to know they could ask on the ride home, and you should know better than to dangle a carrot like that for me. So I'm asking. Uh Mr. Attitude is one of the three. Who are the other two worst opponents you've ever had?

SPEAKER_00 44:19

That is the most asked question I have gotten the last seven or eight, nine days. People all to hell with the rest of the show, they want to know who's the worst.

Naming The Three Worst Opponents

SPEAKER_00 44:30

All right, Mr. Attitude is number three because he couldn't do anything. Number two is Caleb Miracle because he just resisted doing everything, and it made it worse on himself.

SPEAKER_02 44:45

And we will talk plenty about him when we get to that match because that damn whole situation grew legs and took off on all of us.

SPEAKER_00 44:58

And the number one worst person I've ever been in the ring with.

SPEAKER_02 45:03

Hang on, hang on, hang on, drum roll.

SPEAKER_00 45:08

The Phoenix.

SPEAKER_02 45:10

The Phoenix. This poor guy. He was I I just I'm sorry. Real quick, I just want to say I never met Mr. Attitude, but you have made him out to not be a very good person. Um I don't have a terribly high opinion personally of Caleb Miracle. Um this guy that was the Phoenix was one of the nicest dudes I think I've ever met in my whole life.

SPEAKER_00 45:39

Just an angel of a human being. And just thought that he could do everything and was like, I'm gonna give it a try, see if I can do it. And he couldn't. He could not do it. And he was borderline hurting me. And I was I was I had great patience that night. And I asked him like four or five times, you know, hey man, you gotta you gotta let me move my arm. I gotta I gotta be able to move my arm a little bit. And finally I said, brother, you need to loosen up or I'm gonna make you do it. And that's when the referee said, You better listen to him. And about that time it I got the cue to go home, and I hit him with my finish, and he messed it up. And I dropped the most beautiful elbow drop in the history of the business on this guy as hard as I fucking could.

SPEAKER_01 46:33

Oh, it was stiff. It was brutal. Brutally stiff.

SPEAKER_00 46:38

And and I pinned him and I came back through the curtain, I took my mask off as the ranch hand, and I said, nice guy, but he should never be in the ring ever again. Ever, ever, with anyone, anyone, whether they're it's me or uh the guy starting out. This this guy can't work. And uh, you know, I didn't he refereed after that. Great referee, fantastic referee.

SPEAKER_02 47:03

I was just gonna say, I I I don't remember that he was a bad referee. I mean, I think at the very least he was serviceable as a rep.

SPEAKER_00 47:12

Yes, yes, good guy, very nice, very polite, very folksy, um, incredible referee. Better I put him in the upper echelons of of going around West Virginia, Virginia referees. Now I know that's a limit, a limited group there, but he deserves that. But he should never put a pair of boots on. Ever. Ever, ever. He does not even understand what the wrestling business is. And he's lucky he didn't get hurt. And he's really lucky he didn't hurt me and get hurt.

SPEAKER_01 47:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 47:49

So, but we got through it, thank God. And I never and we'll never work him again.

SPEAKER_02 47:55

Well, we uh we'll retell that story, I'm sure, when we get to um what the hell was the name of that story? APW APW, yeah. Beckley. Yeah uh plenty to plenty to talk about then. I I I'm gonna tell a story here in a little bit that I'm probably not gonna name anybody because I don't I don't make a habit of the the sometimes the who is not important.

SPEAKER_00 48:24

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 48:25

When we get to ATW, I will use everybody's name because the who in those situations is gonna be very, very important.

SPEAKER_00 48:36

Yes, well, there's gonna be several little teeny promotions that had hope right there all about around themselves. And uh I think those are gonna be some of the best episodes we do.

SPEAKER_02 48:47

Yeah, man. Just um I don't know. I guess once you run your own company and you think you do it the right way, and you're you're trying to figure out what what to do after that, it can be a little difficult, but I also don't think it had to be as difficult as they all made it. Yeah. Yeah. Um so we'll we talked about the Phoenix, we'll talk about Caleb Miracle plenty down the road. Uh Mr. Attitude, you mentioned this was the first time you you found yourself in

First Shoot Fight And Preparation

SPEAKER_02 49:25

an actual shoot in a match with an opponent, right? And I just want to know, and you you after I have typed this out in my note, you kind of hinted at this, but I want like grave detail. What prepared you because it's not like you can practice that, you know what I mean? Like that's something that happens, and then you've just got to deal with it. So, what prepared you to find yourself in that situation for the first time?

SPEAKER_00 49:58

Well, I grew up at 12 years old fighting real men. Um, so I had fought in yards um my whole life. My dad would make me fight men um in someone's or our yards. A lot of times they'd just show up at the door and say, Hey, I want to fight your kid, and bing, bang, boom, I'm on the front yard beating some guy's ass. And uh imagine that happening nowadays. You know, I mean that's just crazy. But then if you remembered when the second episode, I think it was, I talked about Bobby Blaze about how he would be working, and all of a sudden he'd just shoot on me. And we'd we'd roll around for three or four minutes, and then somebody would get somebody in some kind of hold, and then we'd laugh and move on. That prepared a lot too. Um, so it was a combination of a right cross and a front sugar that did him in.

SPEAKER_01 50:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 50:53

So those are those are my two backgrounds of where I got prepared for that. And you know, and I'm sure there was a lot of anger and frustration from the wrestling business built up there after a while and just came out on him. But uh, you know, I should have never called the spot three times. I was very gracious for that, I think.

SPEAKER_02 51:17

Yeah. But uh Well, I but you know, again, this is not something you would encounter really at all because you were brought up in the the last nine days of the territories where everybody knew what they were doing enough to you know what I mean? That you could have a match with them, or you could um you could you could get something out of it. Yeah. And you know, this is now someone that that you've tried twice. Well, of course you're gonna try again because there's no way this guy can't do it three times. There's no way he's gonna mess it up again. That's kind of what I would think the mentality would be there.

SPEAKER_00 52:02

And he just couldn't get it. Tackle drop down hip tops, couldn't get it. Brutal.

Indie Cosplay Of A Raw Angle

SPEAKER_02 52:12

Alright, so um, real quick before I let you hit all the plugs and everything, you mentioned you were talking about the the Monday Night War formula. The promo sets up the, you know, the live promo sets up the main event and the pretty girls, and how you guys were kind of you know taking elements of that and bringing it to these independent shots and and using it to your advantage. And you meant you said something along the lines of we weren't copying you know the angles right off of TV like they do today, and it immediately made me think of one hilarious story that has nothing to do with you, but I think the listeners of the ride home will enjoy it.

SPEAKER_00 53:02

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 53:03

Well, it it's not that it doesn't have anything to do with you, it just this was during a time where if you listened to the WFS bonus episode, we talked about a period of time where we were trying to figure some things out. The building had not happened and was continuing to not happen. We were just trying to run shows and get by, but we were also, you believed in in the early days of this territorial model where we would go to somebody to a promoter show with his guys and his buildings and his stuff, and we would film it, and they would be, and then we we would do stuff for it. We would introduce a WFS like territorial belt or something along those lines, correct, just to try to help it out and get people working together. So you have me and um Matt McKinney, who was what was his title? He didn't do it with WFS.

SPEAKER_00 54:08

We didn't even have titles, he was my my personal assistant right-hand man.

SPEAKER_02 54:12

Yeah, he did he did a lot of things, but um he would drive the van, he would do the camera work, um, I would do the I would come along and do commentating, and then we'd have David Anthony, and he would work on the show. And you he would be paid from WFS, not paid from the promoter most of the time. And that was part of the package. Like you get the kid a match, we'll tell we'll film it for you, we work out these deals. So uh I'm not gonna say where we were or who we were there for. Um because again, I think the who is not important. They it was not a fun trip because it was a crummy show, and the people there were very resistant to us coming in and doing anything, even if it was helping them, which I found bizarre.

SPEAKER_03 55:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 55:15

But they had a large stable, and it basically was the booker and all of his buttons. So, you know, that I don't feel like that narrows it down very much. NWO level group of people who just none of them had anything to do with each other other than they were in this group. And this was the weekend after the angle they did on Raw. I think it was Flair's 70th birthday where Batista showed up out of nowhere and they beat him down. And Batista gets up in the camera and goes, Do I have your attention?

SPEAKER_00 56:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 56:03

Big angle. The next weekend, end of the show, this group's coming out, they're destroying everybody, they're taking over the set. I have no idea who half these guys are because you know that was the other thing. As a commentator, I had to go get my own information. They wouldn't give me any kind of info, they wouldn't give me the card, they wouldn't give me what they wanted me to get over about guys. It was it was maddening. I had to go talk to all these Jehos who had no idea what the answer to any of my questions were. So I'm I'm just laying out. And finally, one of them gets a microphone. And the first words that came out of his mouth were do we have your attention now? And I I don't think I could stop myself at the table, at the commentary table, I put my face in my hand because it was just it was just straight up cosplay, monkey see, monkey do.

SPEAKER_00 57:17

Yeah.

unknown 57:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 57:20

And it was it was the ships.

SPEAKER_00 57:23

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, you

Old Formula Promos That Always Worked

SPEAKER_00 57:25

you can take an an angle, and I do this a lot, I'd take something Jimmy Valiant did, you know, in 1970, something, 78, 79 in Memphis, and rewrite it and do it in Clay, West Virginia. Well, I didn't use the exact words, I rewrote it to fit me. Um and that's kind of what we did. And then during this formula time that I like to call is uh, you know, I would be out there and I had a great leather suit. It was a leather suit with leather boots and a blue spandex top with my big blonde hair, man. I I look cool in that thing. So I'd come out in that suit every every show, and I'd start welcoming everybody and thank you for coming out, and you know, I I got one problem tonight, I'm in this match, and here we come Eddie Edmonds. Or we'd do it the reverse way sometimes, where he would start talking and I'd come out. But most of the time it was me talking and he'd come out. And then, you know, he would do the thing, and well, you can't beat me because you can't even beat the the grave digger or whoever it was, that wasn't his name, but whatever his name was. And then the grave digger would walk out to ringside, and and then an another guy, and then the tag team baby faces from the undercard would come out, and then Jim would jump in the ring and say, Well, tonight we're gonna have the tag team match, and then we're gonna have this main event, and then of course it ended up in a melee where I was getting beat up by the two dudes that you know were under the masks or or the local yokel. And it worked. It worked really well because it was exciting, and after you do it ten times, you've got it down for the next fifty. You know, you got the the pro the prompts and the the keywords that you can use, and you can use the same words every time because it's a new audience.

unknown 59:22

Right.

SPEAKER_00 59:23

So it was just really fun, and and and we were we felt like we were creating things on our own, even though we were taking inspiration. We felt like we were out there really, you know, doing our brand of entertainment.

SPEAKER_01 59:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 59:40

Um I was listening to a great interview. I love uh as a songwriter, I love listening to other songwriters, especially those who I connect with in some way, uh, talk about the craft of songwriting. Um and I was listening to this great interview with the songwriter where he was talking about how he pulls from a lot of different places, but he pulls from places and artists, I guess, who also were pulling from a lot of places. So it's not like, oh, I want to do what this artist did on this record. I want to pull from that, but I also want to pull from this and from this thing that people might not realize I'm listening to. You know what I mean? Like this pop record or this, like you know, this girl singer, and it's like, oh wait, you listen to that? It's like, yeah, because I can pull from that, you know. Um, and I think that rings true here because while you were pulling format, you know, uh ideas from Raw, you were probably also watching like movies and pulling from that too, you know, and like pulling from a lot of different places to figure out what made you you.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:00

Yes, absolutely. Real quick, uh, this sort of bounces

The T Shirt Line That Sold Out

SPEAKER_00 1:01:05

it back to Troy. Uh, me and Chrissy would have an argument every show about something to do with the show and how she wanted to do it and how I thought it should be done traditionally. And, you know, I won 50% of the time, she would win 50% of the time. It wasn't it wasn't a knockdown drag out, even though we didn't really get along. But anyway, at one one time she said, You know, Brian, you're not the whole show. There's other people on the show. And I said, Well, let them wrestle the main event then. And Troy's like, no, no, no, no, no, let's not do that. So the next show, I went out and had t-shirts made that had the uh Shawn Michaels Heart Shake Bed, but with me laying on it, that said, I'm not the whole show, but I just fucked your girlfriend. And that made her double mad. And when they sold out in a week, then she was really pissed. But those were some good uh uh some good times, good good memories, and I love always loved those shirts.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:15

Well, I wouldn't give to have one of those now.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:17

Oh, I know, right? I know. Tim made them for me. He gave me 400 of them and didn't charge me because he's a nice guy. And I said, What happens when I sell the 400? I'll come back and I don't, you know. He's like, Well you'll pay for them then. And I said, Uh what what if what if I don't? What if I don't have yeah, you know what I mean? Like, you're giving me 400 shirts, and this sounds like a blessing, but uh but I looked at it as a curse. Like, yeah, let me pay for these things because I don't know what's gonna happen with these things.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:46

Yeah, that was a big risk back then.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:49

Well, T Tim just had some shirt, because he had a s had a uh a screen printing business and he had some extra shirts lying around. So he took all the extra shirts and made these shirts. So it was really him cleaning out his inventory. They were perfectly fine, brand new shirts. It just was like maybe maybe he had a dozen for a project, but they only took ten.

unknown 1:03:11

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:11

So he'd have to take the other two and put them with something else. And so I I ended up with all of those shirts over the years, which was nice of him to do that. Yeah, that's pretty cool. Yeah, it is pretty cool. So all right. Well, this has been a great week. We've got uh a lot of stuff to tell you today. Let's start with going to IamYourChampion.com and the store. We have been talking about the slam buddies, the Brian Logan Slam buddies, how we are not getting any more, and that when they're gone, they're gone. Well, folks, we are down to four. If you want one of these things, and they're adorable, and they're good for pillows, back pain, sleeping with them, dogs love playing with them, but you need to get it

Store Plugs Sponsor And Final Update

SPEAKER_00 1:03:55

now because there's four, and when they're sold, they're gone, and there will not be any more. So if you're on the fence about getting them, we sold a bunch of them this weekend, and um, like I said, there are four, one, two, three, four left, and then they're gone forever. But uh also follow us on all the social medias, just go right there to the home screen on IamYourCampion.com and scroll down to the bottom, and they have everything that uh need would be your needs for social media for following me. You got the Facebook, the Instagram, the YouTube channel, which is just going great, and uh still putting videos up every day. Subscribe if you can, please. It means the world to me, and put that notification bell on if you want to find out every video we put up. We put up videos every single day, except on weekends. Uh, Twitter or X is on there, and that also has my puppy of the day from uh the place that I work with all the dogs, and I know a lot of people like the puppy of the day, and I like doing the puppy of the day. But today's show is brought to you by W Energy Drinks. Use promo code YOURCHAING at checkout. W Energy Drinks has zero sugar, artificial colors, and flavors, no secret formulas, no hidden ingredients, gluten-free. What you see is what you get. They ain't hide nothing from nobody about nothing. It equals out to about a dollar a drink uh compared to other drinks that are made in the USA, ready to mix anywhere for anybody, about 150 milligrams of caffeine, shifts worldwide. It promotes clean, smooth energy, sharper mental focus, no added sugar, as I said, unique flavors and built for anyone, as I said. Check them out, they got lots of good flavors, cherry limer, um, sweet and sour blue ras, uh lunar strawberry margarita, and much, much more. And uh, we just want to thank you for tuning in with us this week. Dallas, what'd you think of this week?

SPEAKER_02 1:05:51

I thought it was a good time. Uh uh, like like I predicted, we were a little all over the place, but I felt like we we covered some topics that I don't know. That there would be a better opportunity to cover. So I feel good about it.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:05

One last thing before I go on a serious note, uh, I talked about my buddy Bill Brown that uh about him giving me the information and the advice about WWF at the time and not to panic. Well, Bill is in the hospital in Las Vegas. He has fell. He's doing okay. He uh is in real good care, from what I understand, is the uh one of the top-notch hospitals out there. And I and I don't go for medical things, so when I say it's a top-notch hospital, it it is. Um they don't know how long he's gonna be in there, but he is talking to people, and he says he's coming to Cauliflower Alley this year. So if you guys want to see him, he said see him then. But uh I just want to tell you, buddy, I love you. Get well soon. This has been for Three Crows Entertainment. I'm Brian Logan for Dallas Danger, and remember, I am your champion. I am your champion. Oh man, that's classic. I love it. I'm gonna climb that ladder of success all the way to the top.