Houston Fire Chief Thomas Muñoz: HFD's Dramatic Turnaround

You've never heard a fire chief get this emotional about his job.  Houston Fire Department Chief Thomas Muñoz tears up talking about potentially pinning his own son as a Houston firefighter, and reveals how Hurricane Katrina taught him the "not on our watch" philosophy that drives everything he does.

Chief  Muñoz shares his remarkable journey from the legal field to leading one of America's largest fire departments. He discusses the dramatic transformation of HFD under Mayor Whitmire's leadership, where the department reversed its attrition crisis and now attracts firefighters from across North America.

Key topics covered: • How Hurricane Katrina shaped emergency management philosophy • Reversing HFD's attrition from losing 150 firefighters to gaining talent • 45 "legacy firefighters" whose parents trust HFD with their children • Preparing for FIFA World Cup 2026 during hurricane season • Taking personal responsibility for every firefighter under his command

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Anytime there's an injury or something near miss, I take that personal right because I go back and I say, what did I do wrong? What could we have done better? But I'm blessed that we have, you know, our team started captains that now know the responsibility of making sure our members go home and the citizens and the residents also get the best from City Hall in downtown Houston.

SPEAKER_00 0:23

It's 901 Back 4 inside the mayor's office. And this week we take the show on the road down to 500 Jefferson, where we talk with Houston Fire Chief Thomas Munoz. Chief, thanks. How are you doing? Good to see you on the channel. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Um, we've never had a chance to really sit down and chat like this, so I appreciate this opportunity. This is super cool. For people that that don't know about your history uh and your career, you didn't just trip and fall into a chief position. You you have quite a bit of experience. Can you take us back to uh maybe your early days of of firefighting, even though I was well, first of all, it was kind of funny.

SPEAKER_01 0:58

I was actually in the legal field, right, working for some law firms in the area. Then I went to work uh at the DAs at for pretrial. And uh I remember seeing some firefighters in a garage fire, and one of the ladies, her husband was a firefighter. I said, Man, that's pretty cool. And that was when they were hire. And so I took a gamble and started there, and back in uh can already tell you when I got the call October 11th, 1993, and then I they said you gotta be in class by on Monday, so they gave me two days. I told my employer, Oh, I got some good news and bad news, I'm leaving, right? Uh so it was really great, and that's when it all started. I learned about family, you know, having uh that brotherhood, sisterhood. Yeah, and then uh, you know, fast forward and here I am, right? But it's been great. Our department watching it grow. I mean, I think the main takeaways are just the friendships and the families that I made here within the fire department. It's uh it's like I don't think there's any other job other maybe military or something that you get that bond because you're together 24 hours, right? So yeah, it's been great, you know, it's been great and then promoted and here I am.

SPEAKER_00 2:08

Uh, speaking about the the 24-hour thing, certainly with uh the Office of Emergency Management, you've done uh quite a bit of work in that uh side of life. Tell me a little bit about that experience um and what that means to I you have to, to a certain extent, I imagine you feel like you're really protecting the entire, whether it's Texas City or the city of Houston, you you take the the the pressure of the whole city on your shoulders to a certain extent.

SPEAKER_01 2:32

You do, and I was blessed that uh, you know, I I you know the the fire department really supports its military uh personnel, including the reservists, and so I was able to so continue a career with the Coast Guard and and um which does a lot of quote unquote emergency management, if you think about it, rescues and stabilizing the incidents. Um and so with that I got that experience. But then in emergency management, you know, there's that you watch other lessons learned, and so the responsibility of making sure, right, that our citizens, our residents are safe during the worst times. And it does a lot of weight, right? Um, that you are in a position that you have to make those calls. But I've always been blessed that I have a great team around me. You know, I I do. I mean, you know, a great team at OEM had a great team. You know, we we got a great leader now with Brian Mason there, and so we understand the peace, but the responsibility, um, you know, Katrina taught me a lot. Where um, you know, nursing homes, hospitals were people that either weren't able to get out, and so now we had a saying out on our watch, right? And so that's uh and honestly that's what Mayor Whitmire expects of us, you know, that uh he entrusts us to do that. So yeah, that's a lot of weight, a lot of pressure. Um you could do a hundred things right, the one bad thing you do is somebody's blessing you, but you know, yeah, it comes with territory.

SPEAKER_00 3:57

Take me back to um maybe around that time when you found out, hey, Houston Fire Department chief is uh potentially in my future. Do you remember when you got the call from the mayor?

SPEAKER_01 4:08

I used to hear a lot about it, you know, uh, and of course, every time there's a new chief, they're they're bringing up names. And um and I just did my job at OEM. And I also at one point he put me acting director at Homeland. But I do remember we when we met, because I I saw him, but I I just always admired him from afar. Uh and then next thing I know, it's like you know, his chief of staff at the time, Chris Raportiho. And metal with the mayor, and then um I remember that was a uh an unsurreal moment. I was like, wow, you know, and I guess, you know, the mayor. I told people all the time that he's changed my life and you know, my my family's life in in a way that, you know, he entrusts us, he puts a trust in us. And yeah, it's it was kind of crazy. Sometimes I even people say you do realize, right? I said, I guess there's uh humility or being humble about it does put you uh in a sp in a place to observe. But yeah, and I just know I'm only one mistake, right away. But no, it's been life-changing, say the least.

SPEAKER_00 5:20

Um, is it tough to see yourself as the man in charge when you also have this this brotherhood and this well, not brotherhood, there's women as well, obviously female firefighters. I don't want to say it like that. But this this family that you speak about, is it tough to see yourself as the chief of all of that?

SPEAKER_01 5:34

Yeah, it is. But you know, when you grow up with the the members, uh, you know, people ask that, and I think uh the fact that I know a lot of the people that I worked with, uh someone once told me I get too emotionally involved with my members, right? That I use that emotion to to to really fight for them, and I take that as a compliment. And it is tough because you know you're you're one of them, but you know you gotta separate in the background, you've got to fight for what you know, what they need, and and you gotta definitely support them and and then uh come forward and then build a better department. You know, I um the biggest responsibility I take with me and all our all our firefighters, but I take with me is anytime there's an injury or some minure miss, I take that personal right because I go back and I say, what did I do wrong? What could we have done better? But I'm blessed that we have, you know, our chiefs, our captains that now know the responsibility of making sure our members go home and the citizens and the residents also get the best. And I'm proud to say that, you know, we're at the world-class level that we have the best fire department in the country by far and the world. I I don't have a problem saying that because our members have seen it all.

SPEAKER_00 6:50

Speaking of that, uh, let's talk a little bit about recruiting and about building up this department. I know I know you have some goals, there's some numbers you really want to hit for different reasons. For for people that maybe don't understand, can you give me sort of the overview of what is really needed for a fire department to work? You guys have a lot of shifts, a lot of responsibilities, there's a lot of moving parts, but ultimately you guys can kind of boil it down to a magic number that you say this is where the taxpayers are getting the best safety that they can get, we're getting the most value for our dollar, and we're able to put the most medics and firefighters out on the streets.

SPEAKER_01 7:27

Yeah, you know, when when I f when we first took, you know, the mayor blessed me to appoint me uh and appointed me to this position, the big thing I had to look at what were the numbers. And so coming in, I knew that it was gonna be uh the the goals were gonna be staffing stations and apparatuses, right? But the staffing had to, the the only way we could definitely increase the staffing was through a morale boost. Fortunately, we have Mayor Whitmeyer that it was very clear to the firefighters that he was with us. Uh, and then we had Marty Langton, President Langton of the Local 341. And we sat down, Marty and I, and said, okay, we're gonna turn this around. And in the past, I was seeing the numbers and it was like, wow, you know, we got a lot of work to do. We had said we wanted to graduate, you know, between four and six hundred. People said it'd probably take about three years, but we're already beating that number in the last two years, right? We're approaching the 600 mark, and this year we're gonna meet it. Um but it all started with the May Mayor Whitmeyer making us feel valued, and that's how it started. He did say public safety and he and he and he meant that, and he still does. So seeing that along with the contract negotiation, that really turned it around. And you could see that firefighters are now, you know, again, lifting their heads up high instead of being in for eight years back and forth, and that, you know, being caught in the media stole Marty it's like a bad divorce, right? The kids are like, what's going on? But no, Merriwoodmeyer just came in and supported us 100%. And and now it's taken here to rebuild a lot. Um, but I know we're headed the right direction. There's challenges like everything else. And all the time our command staffs, how can we be more efficient? Case in point, you talked about the cadets. You know, on a full-time track, which is 10 months, remember it comes with no certifications, it's 2.5 million, right, per class. And then we were looking at the attrition rate. You know, according to the numbers, we're graduating maybe 55. So that wasn't a good return on investment. But we started two things, a rehire program along with the fast track, where they're fully certified. Because before people were leaving us to go somewhere else, right? I was told that we had the best, uh, we were the best fire school in the country because they were like training with us and leaving. Now we don't see that. And uh so people come in and and uh we started seeing the turnaround. We started seeing people now wanted again to be part of HFD. And we started seeing that. But that all started with the support that Mayor Whitmeyer and then Marty Langton and myself trying to say, hey, this is the main objective is our members, right? Along with the res the residents of Houston, that they deserve the best. And so we made some great strides, you know, we're still working hard. What's the best way? But going back to that number, if I graduate fully certified people, 10 months versus eight weeks, eight weeks cost me 250,000, right? So I'm able to get more. And now we have a nutrition, you know, where for the longest time we were graduating, 90, losing 150, but now it's reversed, right? So it's really good. It's exciting to see where we're at. And it's only been a short two years.

SPEAKER_00 10:36

Let me ask you, uh when you talk about rebuilding, the the first analogy I get is as a sports team. So there is that kind of slow grind to get, but once the engine gets turning, think of the Astros, right? It's like, okay, we rebuild, we rebuild. But then once we're in it, we're in it. We're we're fighting every every year for a World Series. Is it similar with you? Once you build up the recruiting engine, uh, and then it just kind of feeds itself and it keeps going?

SPEAKER_01 11:00

Yeah, I mean, that's just that the momentum's going now and and people are starting to see, you know, who we are, right? We're we're now supported, and that makes a big difference to people. You know, and then being the third largest apartment in the country, you know, speaks volumes. Um people, you know, like our medics, man, our medics, I tell you, all are firefighters, but our medics, I I say they're the best in the world. I mean, by far. And then by doing this, when the mayor came in, we were able to start recruiting more medics. Uh I mean uh we couldn't get medics, and and now we're starting to see them and coming in and they want to be part of this HFD family and dynasty that we're we're building, right? Um so there's it's some good, good changes. I mean, I think but the underlying factor is uh, you know, I love this department, you know, and I I tell people all the time I'm gonna when they graduate, I tell the parents I'm gonna treat them as if they were my own, you know, and I have to. I gotta take each and everything personally. And our command staff does the same thing, and our captains and our chiefs and out there they we couldn't do it without them by by far. So very blessed.

SPEAKER_00 12:03

Um I did interview a number of recruits recently, and I I got a nice cross-section of of folks that came from honestly all over the world. Some from outside this country.

SPEAKER_01 12:14

One from Canada, right? Yeah, Canada. I actually talked to the Chicago chief and I said, sorry, man, we took them away from you, right?

SPEAKER_00 12:21

Yeah, right. Um but they all they all come for different reasons. But from where you sit, what what do you think is one of the biggest recruiting tools, or or how would I phrase this, maybe one of the biggest reasons or the biggest factors why a a young person or a young firefighter or even someone, what was the phrase we use? Uh the fast track, right? They have some training somewhere else, but they want to switch. What do you think that reason is?

SPEAKER_01 12:45

What's that thing? You know, again, feeling valued carries a long way. Feeling supported, I mean, that goes a long way. But I think now we're, you know, in honesty, the mayor used to say, Mayor Whitmeyer, that our biggest recruiters are own members, right? And now it's like, yeah, you know, the biggest compliment for us is when I see what I call a legacy firefighter, meaning that their dad, their their mom, or someone in their family, you know, now they're carrying the tradition. And the fact that, you know, there was a time we couldn't get legacy firefighters, you know, during that time. And up to this point, you know, I've been told we have 45 legacy firefighters, meaning that they're their dads, their moms who were firefighters, and trusted us with them. And I think that to me is like the biggest compliment. Hey son, and I've had Chiefs come as chief. I want my son's been wanting, I'm gonna trust him, I'm gonna trust you with him. And that carries a lot of weight. But at the end of it, I treat them as my own, like they're my family. It's it that's the easy part. But that's probably the biggest compliment. I mean, we have, I mean, you know, continuing the tradition. Like right now, my own son is it's it's in uh at a local college, you know, and he graduates in May uh with his fire technology, you know, now he's gonna go to EMT school. And I got the other one to join the Coast Guard, what a bigger compliment, right? And uh the fact that he wants to both of them want to carry what I used to do, that's a big compliment to me. Uh but again, like my son said, no pressure, Dad. Just don't ruin this for me. So now it's like, but no, those are the great things.

SPEAKER_00 14:19

So you could have that opportunity where you're you're pinning.

SPEAKER_01 14:22

Yeah, that's I I daydream about it, man. I I do. And just like my other son, Garrett, uh, I was able to do that, you know, for him. And now Garrison, you know, it's like, wow, you know, that yeah, I I even get choked up thinking about it sometimes. It'll be a proud moment, right? But then again, I it's like I said, hey, you know, I'm proud of you because he made that decision. He actually made it when we were at Thanksgiving Day Parade. He said, Dad, I don't want to play football anymore. Because he was again some college, looking at him. I said, What do you want to do? I want to join this team. I said, What team? And then he mentioned, I said, Oh, he said, I see how tight you are, I see that's what I want. And so, yeah, I was like, oh, great.

SPEAKER_00 15:00

So that's support, that's what you're saying. When when other firefighters or aspiring firefighters look at this department, they see that. Because we can all compete with uh, you know, whether it's the pay or the benefits, things like that, which by the way, I did hear from one of the female recruits who's a single mother, she said the Houston DeFi Houston Fire Department is the best place for a woman in my position. Which I thought was interesting. I had never heard that uh from a female to say that whatever it is, the policies, the pr the contract that's in place, yeah, is really good for someone like her.

SPEAKER_01 15:33

And you know, and I'm glad to hear that, because I know in the past, you know, was it a the culture, and that's the one thing that we all sat down as the commands up, we're gonna change the culture, right? Is it safe, you know, and do people feel welcomed and all those things that we do and and it it's showing, right? And and stories like that really make a big difference in how the but I like I was telling you earlier, you know, say, oh, the national average is four percent. Well, I want to beat that average because our citizens deserve it, they deserve it, our department deserves it. So those are the things that's good to hear that, and those are great stories for us.

SPEAKER_00 16:07

Let me uh let me move on and talk to you about uh FIFA that's coming up. And I know this is, you know, for the mayor, public safety is top of mind always. Uh clearly that's you and the Houston Fire Department at the top of that. How do we prepare for something like a World Cup, which to me seems like a weird hybrid in terms of events, like the rodeo in the sense that it lasts a long time, but it's it's like a March Madness where you have sporting events, so it's spread out but it's individual. How do you prepare for something like that?

SPEAKER_01 16:35

Well, you know, we're fortunate that, you know, Mary Whitmeyer built a very strong team. Uh all of us really look at this, but all of us understood real quick that we were on a world stage now, right? Uh Chief Diaz, myself, Chief Harden, uh Brian Mason, you know, everyone from, you know, Solid Blaze, because it's all going to get together, our IT directors. I mean, we all work together understanding that we're at a world stage. And so how we get it together is obviously, you know, we've been training for this since the day that we got announced. I mean, we've been preparing, and again, we're training on the what ifs, what if this happens, what if that happens, and we're continuously seeing what we can improve to be able to have that safe uh tournament. You know, I mean, it is world stage. I mean, man, it's gonna be massive. And it's again, we even train for what is there's a crowd management and crowd control, right, which is psychology of the crowd. So, like even in our department, we're studying what is the past World Cups or what is the past tournaments that there's other cities in the country that everything just, whoo, hey, capture that lesson learned, right? And then with, you know, T Diaz and PD, I mean, again, you know, it's so deep that even his team is looking at, okay, war of something incident information centers, where do they go? We're coordinating with translations, how do we do that? I mean, we're looking at everything. Then we throw in that curve, we're in the middle of hurricane season, and how do we, what do we, how do we react to that? So we're looking at everything. Our our our department, our guys, um under you know, Chief Martinez and Chibiasana, they've done a great piece on the emergency action plan that covers everything, everything from a storm to you know, communication outage and how we're gonna react. But we train together, you know. Chief Satter White from the homeland side. I mean, everybody's just all hands on deck. And you know, it is. I mean, we've never seen anything like this, the largest bony event in world history. And yeah, we're we're we're we're working hard. But you know, again, uh that's one thing that Mayor Whitmeyer lets us hey, this is why you're here. Use all your experiences, all the talents that you have. So, yeah, we're excited. Um, like everything else, even down where it's countdown. I think we're 48 days away. No pressure, right? But no, we're there. I think I got a great HFD team, you know, that is working hard and will continue to work hard throughout the whole event. 41 days.

SPEAKER_00 19:02

It is interesting because you you bring up a good point. There are so many possibilities, things that could happen. We do have history to tell us. There have been World Cups going on for decades, so we have kind of an idea, but wow, Chief, when you just laid it out, I forgot about the fact that we're being hurricane season two. And then you have these these swells of people coming and going, right?

SPEAKER_01 19:23

And language barriers, and then we got the heat, you know. Some cities in the country say 85 degrees is a heat wave. That's uh that's fall season for us, right? Uh so we look at everything. I mean, I'm telling you, this team is uh God that I have I've been blessed to work with. Wow, it's like we're looking at man, I didn't even think about that. We didn't think about that. So it's all hands on deck, as the mayor's likes to say.

SPEAKER_00 19:49

Let me ask you this. If you fast forward a handful of years, three to five years into the future, what do you see maybe different, improved, better for this Houston fire department?

SPEAKER_01 20:00

Obviously the apparatuses, stations, you know, we're we're fortunate now that we're working with deterrents throughout the city to start how do we our our stations, you know, they they are 24, they're our home, right? We live there 24-7. I mean, the lights never go off, right? That, and we're getting a lot of support in that. But you know, if I were to look, you know, at least at another two stations, uh, that's our goal. Um obviously there's more, but we we gotta be realistic too, and I guess our new apparatuses, but staffing levels at a point where we feel comfortable saying, hey, you know, we're have this financial piece under control and then revamping. Um, you know, if I had a big goal is to increase our safety officers, you know, and again, we're working towards that. Uh but there's if I wanted to see it at, you know, three to five years, you know, I think just maintaining but increasing, you know, the and again the the the equipment and so forth, but our our people are working hard towards that. And uh, but yeah, that's that's some of the things that we're seeing, and again, working with the union. I'm blessed to have a good relationship with the union and and we the our main objective is our members. And I think with that that really helps. But yeah, and I I hope in three or five years, you know, yeah, I do hope. It's a good vision. I I do hope, Mayor Whitmeyer, because I love working for the man. But no, for us, it's just uh, you know, getting that world-class status that we're getting, people are coming to us now.

SPEAKER_00 21:25

I think we talked about a lot, Chief. I appreciate the time. I guess the last thing I would say, um, you know, Mayor Whitmeyer hired you for a reason. He believes the city's safer with you in charge. Is there anything you want the average Houstonian to know about this department and and your role and what the department's role is for the city?

SPEAKER_01 21:46

Yeah, I think it's important to know um that our members wake up every day to make sure that they're safe, right? And they leave their world to take care of this world. And you know, along with not only the operation side, but we have an a Amazing artisan bureau that has a you know a clearance rate that's unbelievable. Um our inspectors, you know, and they're continuously doing and new challenges they face head on. Our communication captains, you know, even though the city's grown, it's still coming on and they're still maintaining, right? Um and they're dedicated to that position. Our human resources, our our civilians have, and I hate to use the word civilian, but the the pe the the the non-classified, they continuously support us, man. And it takes a team, the support that the member has, but knowing that our members get up every day to put their lives in line, the people that they don't even know what a better profession, and our members are trained. You know, we the medics, ENTs, our medics are out, you know, we have world class. I mean, that is never and I think maybe they don't see that, you know, that we're away from the families where, you know, we skip anniversaries, birthdays, holidays, um, and all because we love what we do and we love the city, and that's why we wake up. And I always say there there's two whys I wake up in the morning, right? The fire department, that's the first you know, well, first my my family, my boys are the first why, and the second why is this department, right? Uh the members that I grew up with. And I gotta be very careful how I say that, because once I said two whys, and somebody's like, Did he say he has two whys? No. No, I gotta be clear now, right? Two reasons. I'm gonna say two reasons from now on. I like saying why, right? Uh it's true, man. Your boys at home, your family at home, and then your fire department for sure. It's the two proudest, proudest moments of your life that they were born and they realize why, right? And that's the thing that I always tell my boys, that they just your why. And now finding out what your why is it's a great thing. Uh why, w H Y. Uh and uh, but yeah, you know, and I just uh I love this job. I mean I I honestly, honestly, uh I love this job and I'm extremely blessed to be part of this family and the mayor's family as well. So yeah, it's been it's been great, you know. It shouldn't have happened according to all standards growing up in the in the housing projects and moving around family to family. It shouldn't have been me, but I don't know. And you know, you hear the mayor's story, yeah, same thing, you know, we just that's probably why, right? Because you know what challenges are and I don't regret ever growing up without electricity, food. Because now you enjoy and you see it brings you empathy. You know what people are going through and it makes it easier to make decisions when you've sat in their shoes or been in their shoes and sat in their homes. So it's great. Our guys is a top notch, man. Our men and women are top notch. Put them up I'll put 'em up against anybody, even you know, and we talk about this, but our hazmat team, my God, you know, our rescue teams, our technical rescue, our members being first on the phone, or they'll call them, hey, we got a flood and curve bill. And without hesitation, maybe yeah, send them. Maybe we won't send them. You know, we were there, and you know, during those hard times that people look, we need you. And that's our members. It's a great feeling. Great feeling.

SPEAKER_00 25:10

I appreciate your time, Chief. I really do. Uh I look forward to visiting. We'll visit again maybe after FIFA. We'll see how some of the things end up and uh after hurricane season, maybe we'll just get through a hot summer and we'll do it again.

SPEAKER_01 25:21

Rollins, you got those coins? Yeah, we want to give you something. Uh I think this is our first official podcast here, wasn't it? So so this is you know part of the tradition, people have coins in our fire department for the first time ever. And I want to give Chief Lowland credit. Uh, it's got a world-class department, and so this is uh Just for me. That's for you and and uh Keith and Keith. For our photographer, Keith. And for the record, we paid for those out of our own pocket. We paid for that. No, it's a good idea. It's a kind of gift. I appreciate it. I'm gonna save this for sure. It's beautiful. Like world class, you know.

SPEAKER_00 25:58

So standard of excellence built on legacy. That's it. Now I understand this like when when you go to a bar, right? If you're sitting there and somebody breaks up a coin, right? You don't have one. Is that what it is?

SPEAKER_01 26:09

Yeah, in the military, it was common, man. Like you you'd rather oh you get the coin first before your cell phone, right? It's like you better not like and man, they go in a pub and they're always you who got one. It's like because it doesn't, it becomes a habit after a while, right? Hey, listen your coin.

unknown 26:24

Damn.

SPEAKER_01 26:24

And you know, when you got 20, 30 people, you gotta buy around for it. Hey, you learn real quick, you're gonna take that coin right.

SPEAKER_00 26:30

All right, I'm gonna protect it. We're gonna be in this part.

SPEAKER_01 26:32

You're one of us now, man. You're one of us. Thank you, Like. Thank you. Appreciate it.