Under The Lights with Ash and Roy
Under the Lights Podcast with Ash & Roy brings you straight into the stories of the Western world’s toughest and most talented — legendary horsemen, elite rodeo athletes, and powerhouse musicians.
No fluff. No filters. Just real conversations about the grit, setbacks, and breakthroughs that built these icons. Ash & Roy take you behind the scenes and under the lights to hear what it really took to get there.
If you live the Western lifestyle — or just respect the grind — this one’s for you.
Kick back, crack a cold one, and enjoy the show.
Under The Lights with Ash and Roy
Mark Weaver - Season 1 Episode 2
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Built on horsepower, hustle, and high-stakes decisions, this episode of Under the Lights with Ash & Roy features powerhouse Standardbred owner Mark Weaver of Weaver Bruscemi LLC—a name behind some of the biggest moments in harness racing. From spotting raw talent to managing elite-level stables, Weaver breaks down what it really takes to compete at the top of the sport.
Welcome to Under the Lights with Ash and Roy. We are so excited to have you guys here with us today. My name is Ashley Tetrick, and I'm here with my co-host Roy Dingis.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. And we have a special guest, friends of both of ours.
SPEAKER_01A friend of both of ours, which makes things sometimes a little easier when we're doing an interview. Mark, good to have you and thanks for coming.
SPEAKER_05Hey guys, how are you doing? Thanks for having me.
SPEAKER_01Before we get into too much, I'm going to give a little bit of a bio on Mark so that our listeners have a key understanding of the accolades that come with the Weaver Bruce Gemmi uh name. Mark is one of the most accomplished harnessed horse owners in Standard Burn Racing. And through the Weaver Bruce Gemi LLC and longtime partnership with Burke Racing Stable, Mark's been an extraordinary run of its success at the highest level of the sport. He has campaigned horses like Foyle Degens, Sweet Lou, Luce Pearlman, and he's recognized as was recognized as the owner of the decade in the 2010s. He has built a reputation for championship level success, smart partnerships, and a lasting impact on the industry. So again, thanks so much for joining us, Mark.
SPEAKER_05Thank you. I owe you money for that. That was pretty good.
SPEAKER_01Thanks. Thanks. I think it was probably uh send your your donation to Chat GPT.
SPEAKER_02I was gonna say when we were doing introductions, like when we get uh political on Facebook, uh Mark is an ally of mine.
SPEAKER_05So uh Yeah, I don't know if we get into that or not, but Roy, I got your back. Um sometimes you need it, but yeah, I'm always there to help you.
SPEAKER_01For the sake of harness racing, I think we'll go a little bit of a different route today. But listen, if y'all want to later on go for it, you you can go for it. Um I love I love that.
SPEAKER_05We would kind of need a punching bag, and I don't know if you're the right right person for that.
SPEAKER_01So uh not the right person for that, not today.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Mark, there are incredible accolades into the harness racing, um, your your harness racing business. But before we get into the thick of that, I'd love to know who's Mark Weaver prior to harness racing.
SPEAKER_05Um I guess growing up, I was just a typical kid in Southern California. Uh loved basketball, loved to play sports, and I started going to the racetrack Los Alamitos in 1987 when I was about 16 or 17, and just kind of fell in love with the sport, and um it's kind of changed, it's been a huge part of my life, um, especially the past 25 years, but I fell in love right away with the sport aspect of it, and uh and now it's kind of hard for me to think about my life, what it was like before before harness racing was such a big part of it.
SPEAKER_01W did you have any horse family that you grew up with?
SPEAKER_05No, no, ironically, uh not at all. And myself and my brother, um, who also didn't have any family, he makes a living in the business. He worked for TVG or FanDuel out as uh as an on-air personality, so it's kind of weird. No, not nothing in the business at all, and and now we both kind of made our living uh off the horses one way or another.
SPEAKER_01Was it the gaming aspect of harness racing that really got you hooked?
SPEAKER_05Yeah, it was a sport, the uh understanding the strategy of how the races went. Um kind of afraid of horses, to be honest, and and I respect them a lot, but I'm not real comfortable around them, yeah, which is totally a different aspect of the sport that I think people could fall in love with. But for me, it's just the um just the game, not not so much even the gambling, just the sport itself and the strategy of like your husband, Timmy, like how they drive a race, and that's kind of what what I fell in love with, and then it all kind of took off. Now I'm really into the breeding aspect and all other aspects of it, but originally it was just the the sport, and uh you know that that really drew me in.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, Los Al. I remember uh when I was a kid, uh they had a show, it's called Harness Racing 90 or something. Came on like once a week and they give you all the do you remember that, Ash? I remember uh seeing Los Al on that show, and I'm it it looked beautiful. I've never been there, but I mean the palm trees like the if I can remember, there was a pond or something in the in the middle.
SPEAKER_05Yep, yeah, it's it's still there. Um back in the 80s, they would race six months harness and six months quarter horses, so I kind of grew to to enjoy both of them. Los Alamitos that you can cypress, California, and that's where I grew up. It's also where Tiger Woods is from. So no matter how well how famous I get, I'll never be uh more well known. But uh but yeah, it's still there. They race quarters year-round now. It's still, like you said, palm trees and the pond in the middle, um, always the sunset in the back. Yeah, beautiful track.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I I remember uh they set the track record a race I watched TK Skipper and Dare You Two. Yeah, it was yeah, I mean TK Skipper won by like this much in like 51 and 3. But as a kid, that was one of the most exciting races and calls and Los Alamitos, yeah.
SPEAKER_05Yep, no, there was a guy, Joe Alto, I believe, was the the track announcer back then. And uh yeah, I remember those are I think that was maybe '92. I moved east in '93. So that was like a year before I I headed back to Pittsburgh. Yeah. But yeah, those were that's where I didn't go to college, but when people say, you know, ask if I did, I say yes, I went to Los Alamos Race Course uh University and I got my master's. So um, yeah.
SPEAKER_01So we need to get t-shirts made and start your like your swag, Los Alamitos, yeah, uh university.
SPEAKER_04L I yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01The the the Weaver Bershemmy partnership has been such a consistently incredible build for for a long time now. Yeah, where did that relationship begin and how did that start?
SPEAKER_05Yeah, it's funny. I I I met Mike uh in I guess the mid-90s when I moved back here, and we were in a fantasy football league, and I would see him once a year. And at some point, what I started buying horses in 03, and he came out to the track one time and said, Hey, I'd like to get involved, and bought the first horse, and uh actually it was gonna win, and it made a break, and it didn't finish the race, he was fine. And uh, I figured that'd be the the last we would see of Mike, you know, he's done he stuck with it, and we we uh got to one and two and five and ten. And at this point, I believe we've owned over three thousand horses, and we currently have probably 550 or so uh between the race horses and the the breeding game and yearlings and wheelings and everything. So it's it's uh over the last 20 years, it's gotten it's gotten pretty big.
SPEAKER_02Oh, I'd hate to be your accountant.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, yeah, yeah. I pay them enough.
SPEAKER_01I bet you do. I bet you do. So have all you you've had the ability to travel to just about every North American racetrack to be there with your horses and race. And where is your absolute favorite place to have race horses racing at?
SPEAKER_05Um, just for personal reasons, the Adios it near at the meadows near Pittsburgh.
SPEAKER_01Um Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, I grew up in the teens, um, kind of going to that when I would come back and visit Pittsburgh. Um so that that's still um personally the the my biggest race the year. But the little brown jug to me is uh one of a kind. It's it's in the day, they get I don't know what it is, 50, 60,000 people, I think. Um they still go two heats, which is kind of an old school thing, but I still enjoy it. Race twice in the same day. Um, so I would say the jug, but they're all just the way the whole season, Hamiltonian's a great day, and the Breeders Crown's a great day. So it's hard to really say, say one, but um, there are enough big days throughout the year that um it's it's good to be be in those important races, and they go for a lot of money too, so that doesn't hurt.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I think I'm a big fan of uh last week in a Lexington. Yeah, uh second week, yeah. The jug is fun, every everything is fun, right? But just the whole aura of Kentucky, and that's my favorite.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, I love Lexington. That that may be my favorite, you know, extended those 10 days of Grand Curse. And I even I went to Oak Grove last year, and to be able to go to Nashville and then drive over the track. Like it was my first time in Nashville. I thought that was that was one of my favorite cities. I can't wait to go back this year. So uh yeah, it's just you know, it's fun to be able to travel around to see just top horses race, and hopefully we have some that are worthy of following.
SPEAKER_01Speaking of the little brown jug, you guys have had a lot of you you've been there quite a few times, both for the jug and the jug at. Yeah, um, you had won the little brown jug with Luz Pearlman, and that was an incredible, incredible race. If if producer Britt, if you're available, I have uh if we could pull up Luz Pearlman's YouTube video. Maybe Mark, you could talk us through that race a little bit.
SPEAKER_05Sure, yeah. I remember it well. It was uh he's he's the son of Sweet Lou who who's uh tremendous horse for our operation and now a tremendous stallion. And uh Luz Pearlman was was I don't know if it was his first crop, but one of his first few crops. And uh that that uh little brown jug race was um it was very I don't want to ruin anything, but it was a it was a tight finish, and uh um it was probably one of my best memories so far.
SPEAKER_01I bet you could probably, I don't know if if you can get to about the three-minute mark-ish on this video. You could get halfway through there when they're getting to the gate. I know it's probably got a buffer a little bit. Um, going into this race, I don't uh shame on me. I don't remember, Mark. Were did were you the favorite going into this?
SPEAKER_05Yeah, I just saw the odds there. It and for people that don't fall racing much, these horses raced maybe two or three hours before, maybe two hours before this. Yes, and you had to be in the top four in your uh your heat or your division to to make to the final. And the the both the horses that finished first, they were they drew between the one and the two, post one and post two. So the ones all the way to the right on the screen. And they're they're both equal, they're about even money. They're the two definitely the two horses to beat. Um, the one is perfect sting. You can see he kind of it these these turns, it's a half-mile track, so the turns are very tight. One made it right to the lead. It basically lined up in numerical order, which doesn't always happen, but in this particular case, with the best horses having good posts, it would be kind of uh not a great strategy to go to try and go to the front because they would get left on the outside. So it did it lined up one-two if in yeah, perfect stings, uh the three to five favorite, and our horse loose pearlman um is the second choice, and uh yeah, they it they uh it kind of lined up single file for a while, and then it's gonna start getting a little more action here in a minute.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, we're about at the half now. Um, just real quick, because I just thought of it. Do you own any horses without Bershemmy?
SPEAKER_05No, no, he owns all of them. Yeah, yeah, no, he owns all of them. And yeah, if you so looking at the race now, most tracks again. I'm not I don't know how many of your listeners are used to racing or not, but many of the tracks they have what's called a passing lane. And when they go into the stretch, you can kind you can go to the inside. Um, the little brown jug does not. So our horse now, he's there's three across the track, he's in the middle. He actually came off the rail, which you would never do if there's a passing lane. But here, if you stay in behind the leader, you may never get out. So we we tipped off the rail, and then another guy went three wide. So right now, um we're poked our head in front and perfect sting, and David Miller, he's still battling back. Um, that's John and Jingra on our horse. And uh they battled, they battled right to the wire. It's uh you can kind of see, like thought we got it, but you don't know. To me, I I always say it was like winning two races because there was a race itself, and we had to sweat like a four-minute photo. Um and uh that that was just it was just cool to have a stallion that you that you you know are so proud of, and then for his offspring to to win a big race like that. And actually now Luce Pearlman is standing in Ohio, and his oldest crop are yearlings this year. They'll sell some sales this fall and they'll start racing next year. So um that was uh yeah, that was that was a special time.
SPEAKER_02That's incredible and and not to not to take anything away from from your horse, but how many times has David Miller lost the judge in a in a photo finish?
SPEAKER_05Yeah, no, David, David's tough and uh he's tough in Ohio, and he's proven that now. He's but he's he's back home. But uh yeah, they they uh I'm sure a lot of the people rooting for David, he's got a huge following there being an Ohio guy, but um that day, uh yeah, you see that in the times are well, that's pretty big last half, and uh the rim like that is pretty impressive.
SPEAKER_02And I I don't know the statistics, but for for uh decades, maybe maybe Luz Pearlman was the first. Uh, remember that the whole thing uh no horses ever want to jug with a two-hole trip. Oh yours might be the first one, yeah.
SPEAKER_05I don't yeah, we're and is it even a two-hole trip? Because he yeah, he came out. Yeah, I don't know.
SPEAKER_01Um it's crazy.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Thanks, Britt. We we could probably we're good, we're good there. And so you your partnership with Run Burke, tell us how long you've been together and how you got together.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, I I own my first horse at the meadows in 2003, and I probably met Ronnie maybe right around there, maybe a year after. And we have our kids are about the same age, and we had vacation in some of the same spots, and we just kind of we were both 20 years ago, we were probably mid-30s and kind of wanted to loved harness racing and wanted to branch out a little bit, and so that's when we we kind of he was starting to move out east, and I'm pretty aggressive by nature and just wanted to get get big and kind of what we were doing at the meadows. We started to do a pocono and then at Yonkers and then at the Meadowlands, and he would just keep growing, and I would keep buying horses, and it just it just really took off. It was kind of just using the same strategy and and concept that we did did at home at the meadows, and we just started to do it all over the country.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it's the little brown jug. Have you won how many have you won? Three or I think five. Five.
SPEAKER_05If you won five judges, yeah, yeah. It's a it's a race that kind of fits uh Ronnie. He he trains our horses hard, and he'll go, you know, uh almost racing two two races like that is similar to how ours are trained. So I think that helps. Um and uh it's just you know, a lot of the the top horses won't race in it some years for whatever reason. They're maybe afraid of the image if they don't race well. We like to race, we're not protecting anyone. We'll uh you know, maybe to a fault we want to race too much. We're at times we'd be better off protecting potential stallions. Um, but but yeah, we show up. Sometimes we'll have three or four or five in it each year, and uh so that certainly helps.
SPEAKER_02We've got got a lot of a lot of chances, but um yeah, and I think respectably, uh last year was like a walkover.
SPEAKER_05Last year was pretty good. Luke Print was a pretty special horse, and uh he's uh yeah, it's not the best race, maybe from a gambling standpoint, because like I said, if you win your heat, you get to draw inside, and anybody that draws in, you know, it it's almost it's a bad, bad race to watch, probably if you want action, but when you got the best horse, you don't care about that, you know. No, just want to win, and uh and he earned it, he won his division. And for him, I don't I think he could have had the eight-hole. I don't know if it really would have mattered, but uh he outclassed the field. Yeah, he is just again another son of Sweet Lou. Um, but and also standing in Ohio this year. Um, but he uh yeah, he was he was fun, fun to watch.
SPEAKER_01Speaking of Sweet Lou, let's go back to talk about him a little bit. Uh what a what an incredible, incredible big lung torse. As a two-year-old, he was an absolute monster, went on in through his three-year-old year, came back as an aged horse against the toughest group of aged pacers, I think, that you could come up with.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And he he just went on and did great things.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, he he was kind of special because up until he came along, we were known for people to we would buy horses and already made horses and try and you know move them to a different spot or or or do well that way. We weren't known for developing our own or even buying yearlings. So he was kind of the first, you know, wasn't a homebred, but he was a yearling that we bought that uh developed into, you know, he was two, you know, world champion at two. And that was to me, that was a big step for our operation for Ronnie Burke, the my trainer, and um it may it was he and his father at that time at that point, but just to be able to to get a horse from scratch, and which is a totally different game than buying a four-year-old gelding and maybe improving it a little with some equipment changes or training tactics, um, to be able to start from scratch and and develop them. Um, that's a totally different very few trainers are able to do well with two-year-olds and age horses. And so it took a while. There was a learning curve, and um, but he was the first one that was like, okay, we can do this, and then from that, and then now using him as a stallion, it's really it's uh we've actually we've we've kind of taken it to the next step um from the yearling perspective.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, incredible. I know you I know you lean more towards pacers than you do trotters, but it do you uh somewhere down the line. I mean, did you want to focus on like the Hamiltonian or maybe maybe the elite lot? I mean, is that ever on the radar?
SPEAKER_05Yeah, I mean, we we've done we were second in uh Hambo with Mission Brief, the Philly we took on the boys, uh Southland Frank was second by a nose, and what the hill actually won the Hamiltonian, those were three straight years and got disqualified, unfortunately. But um, as much as I love the sport, it's what I do for a living, and we have to be able to make money. And trotters with the European influence, so many times they they go for more than we can justify spending. So it's just it's so hard for us to constantly be a player in that market. It's almost like thoroughbreds, right? Thoroughbreds are it's a great game, but it it, you know, I don't know if it's if it's realistic to make money, um, you know, long-term, anyways. You you certainly can if you get a great horse. So with pacers, it's just um we've just had more success. So we kind of gear probably 70 pacers, 30 trotters. Um, but um, yeah, I would love to get, you know, I'm getting a little better spot financially, so maybe we can we can take some shots with some trotters, but it's hard. I mean they'll buy these things for a million dollars, you know, and you know, like it's just it's hard to justify spending that type of money.
SPEAKER_02No, absolutely. I don't I don't know how you do it.
SPEAKER_05Well yeah, if you're somebody that that's made it in life and your goal is to win the Hamiltonian or to win the Kentucky Derby or something, then then yeah, I mean you can do that. But uh we're not our operation isn't we're we're getting closer, but we're not quite there yet. Um so we'll still dink around with our with our pacers and uh um although we did we got we bought a real nice uh uh Walner out of Ramona Hill of uh Philly the one the Hambletonian so uh we did I think we spent 250 000 um so we'll uh we've got we've got some some bullets and we'll get some animals so we'll see how it goes uh that was a bargain right there well yeah we were happy with it yeah yeah yeah I'm I'm gonna look that up now like what what's the most expensive horse that won the Hambo I uh the to me tactical land it was what 800 or something but he never won the Hambo so I I don't know if I do some research I mean you'd have to you just have to differentiate if you're gonna look at how much they sold for as a yearling or if they how much they sold you know yeah I think I did look it up one time it's not as much as you would think in in some cases but you figure that's kind of a tough way to look at it because there's maybe five horses that sold for over half a million and there's a thousand horses that sold for cheap. So they've got so many more chances you know um just in general that it seems like in the pacing you can kind of you can kind of do it without you know consistently you can kind of right do with I don't want to say smoke and mirrors but you you don't have to have like these royally bred things where trotters um it's just it just breeding seems to play a bigger part in in the trotting game than the pacing game as far as I'm concerned. For sure.
SPEAKER_01Mark what does the day to day look like I mean you with having the amount of horses that you guys have as an ownership group are you watching races studying races in the evenings what what's typically a day for you?
SPEAKER_05Yeah um I'm really lucky like I can work as literally 24 hours a day or I can work zero hours a day. So my main job has always been acquiring horses but I've kind of gotten lazy rely on agents a little more and more in the the managing or the breeding aspect the breeding as the breeding part especially this time of year takes a lot takes a lot of time uh but just just mainly buying horses or or communicating with Ronnie he's actually called me three times since we've been on this and he's probably wondering what the heck's going on um usually available but uh he can wait.
SPEAKER_01Well when you call him back tell him if if he wants to do the podcast but does he want to have it yeah he loves to talk especially if you can ask him a little bit of wine during it he'll um yeah you might have to do a double one with him because he'll keep going.
SPEAKER_05We like it.
SPEAKER_01But uh yeah no just uh it it's just buying and selling horses mostly like I said deal with Ronnie and stake this is staking season so we have to decide we can't spend you know I I think our overall bill for for March is it's about six hundred and fifty thousand for for the entire Burke brigade um so and you and that's your March 15th payment that's a March 15th yeah okay so for those that may not be familiar with staking we stake we'll stake March April and May we have payments on each payment to maintain eligibility towards those top tiered races.
SPEAKER_05Yep yeah and even some start in February I'm not sure how the thoroughbreds do it um yeah I don't either but but for us yeah there's certain races like the little round jug we said you have to spend money as a yearling or then maybe as a as a two year old and then again as a three year old to keep them eligible and then and then there's also a starting fee when you go to racing it. But um yeah we try and decide who to put in what you don't want to have too many in the same race and um there's just a a lot to to go over and um but uh but I at this point I I don't even consider it work. It's just I love it. I can't imagine not I don't know what I would do if if we didn't have horses and um yeah it's just I'm really thankful that uh that I get to to do it and do it at this level is pretty fun.
SPEAKER_01There I have a little bit of a strange question going back to sweet Louis spoke about earlier you guys made a big driver change from his after his three year old year to his his aged year I I think it was three to four it may have been two to three I can't remember is that a decision that your trainer makes is do you consult? How does that work in your relationship with Ronnie?
SPEAKER_05Yeah ultimately Ronnie makes every decision um but a lot of it we're kind of believers that drivers should stay are best at their tracks and it costs to shift these drivers around yes I'm sure yeah yeah exactly so like Chris Page is our driver now in Ohio and he to me he's the best as far as developing horses and we typically leave them at two and three um but sometimes when a horse goes to the Grand Circuit at that point it was sweet Lou with with Dave Pologne and he would drive in PA but it's hard to expect Dave or Chris to go to the Meadowlands on a Saturday and then Canada the next Saturday to drive one horse and then they're missing the whole cart at Soyota or at the meadows so we try and you know it it's a case by case deal um if the horse like certain horses we would keep we would do that but um we try and do what's best what's best for the horse what's best for us what's best for the driver and throw it all into the mix and uh and our drivers catch drivers they you know your husband knows as well they all want to drive every one of them so we you know we've got we've got a lot of egos that we have to uh to keep keep yeah like yeah the um don't say I don't know what you're talking about right right so it's it's it's not uh not my favorite part of the game to be no it's i'm I'm a team guy and and I want guys on my team and and I want to be on their team and it sucks to me that that we don't have many drivers like that we we still have a couple that that pretty much always drive our horse but um it it's I guess I can't I can't blame drivers for picking off because they need that's how they make their living right but just their time it's just plus we're racing 5,000 horses a year so we we have to rely on multiple drivers so it's yeah yeah yeah it's a dynamic that I've I've gotten used to and uh but ultimately Ronnie makes a decision especially if a driver's mad they can call Ronnie yes but but uh but no we we've we've we've learned to manage we you know we've got you know Yannick's a a a huge part of our team and and Timmy uh T-trick is is is big and Ronnie Wren and uh Chris Page and um we've got a lot of a lot of loyal drivers and we we've been pretty loyal to them and David Miller we've had success with um a lot of the a lot of the Dexter I mean he's pretty darn good too so uh yeah there's a lot of good options out there yeah yeah it was good to see Ronnie Wren because uh you put him in some big spots this year this past year yeah yeah like he he i've always known him to be a good driver right yeah and but now you're putting him in a million dollar race and I'm like okay like how's this gonna affect him uh he really stepped up to the plate yes he did and I I was really proud of him I told him I think it was for the North American Cup I said Ronnie I understand we're putting you in a tough spot I don't think he'd ever really been there and we're asking you to go it's just it's just so different you know how you get into the track and how you go through the paddock and how you post parade like things that come they're second nature to James McDonald or some of the the guys up there and then you've got Ronnie's totally out of his element and he he said the way he he said I'll figure he said I'm a quick learner he said he said I agree with you but I'm a quick learner I was almost giving him like a get out of jail free card if he didn't yeah yeah he didn't want it he this was for the limit he said I get I know what you mean but I'm a quick learner I said okay and and uh the final he won the final it was one of the best races ever I mean it was you know nose to nose for the last quarter mile and um and uh yeah he's a quick learner I mean then he did he went up and did it in the Breeders Crown with uh Lua Deepa um yeah uh so yeah no Ronnie really had great great guy great great great uh yeah really happy for him this year that he kind of had his his coming out party on a national on the national level yeah he rose rose to the occasion and did it well he really did what what's what do you consider your biggest victory in harness racing um yeah it's hard to say I mean yeah I hate going back to sweet Lou but maybe sweet Lou winning as a two year old um um again when at that point Pallone was kind of thought of like a local driver um and there were questions could he do it on the big stage and he proved he actually won it was a breeder's crown he won two breeders crowns that night um our operation that we hadn't shown that we could do it um and and so I I would say that he won by like seven lengths and uh in a in a world record 49 flat I think um then foiled again I don't know if we talked about him but he's he's the richest horse of all time uh he made 7.6 million dollars yeah and uh he's still down he he he's like a snowbird he comes down to Florida in the winter with two year olds and he watches him train down and he goes back up to Pittsburgh in the in the summer but um he would be he was born in oh four so he'd be 22 now and uh he looks good I mean you he could he he looks uh I mean you can tell he's um but he's uh he's the one that put us on the map you know we bought him in 2008 and he uh we'll always be thankful for foil yeah he's uh he's always been my favorite he's probably the toughest horse I've ever seen like oh whether I think it was the Ben Franklin and maybe even the British crown the muddy night like they came at him inside outside at his throat and he just never quit yeah and I mean he if I believe he was he was roughed up a bit got to the lead and then they come to him and he just kept digging I mean unbelievable yeah he kind of bucks all the trends I believe there's a stat that no at the time no horse over six had ever made a million dollars in a year and he did it at seven eight and nine yeah so that's that kind of show he's just he was just a freak and and tough and uh yeah he's yeah he he was and and I gotta commend the whole team for taking him on the the farewell tour to like Shenandoah and well all the places that he went uh I remember I was at Shenandoah when he came down there Chris Shaw drove him yeah and uh uh man just uh just to know that it was his last year and and that I could see him one more time uh like it still gives me chills. Yeah it was cool we had enjoyed that and it was fun we kind of that's one where I had input on who would drive him at each place. And I enjoyed making the calls with Chris Shaw was a good little kid he was down there. We used Montrell Teague at uh Harrington um Mitch Cushing was an up and coming kid up in Plain Ridge or one of the tracks I think it was Plain Ridge. So yeah it was it was fun to be able to call people and say hey you you got a horse I never heard of foiled again and uh they usually uh yeah it was pretty cool I'm sure they good memory for them as well oh yeah oh yeah producer Brett do you think that you can pull up Foiled Agains I believe it was his 2013 breeder's crown uh we were at Pocono raceway in the absolute porn mud I think I remember this correct me if I'm wrong Mark the minute that the age pacers got on the truck it like stopped raining but it was muddy can't remember go ahead I was there that night too we're gonna I think it's yeah we're gonna watch this and and and see you can see him get away forth a little bit and got pretty roughed up yeah I don't this was a while back it's hard to see yeah yeah that's he never made it quite to the rail and he had to come with him and here is that him right there that's him right here yeah he he's brushing to the front now but yeah yeah 25 and 3 yeah that's that's uh I'm trying to think I remember uh I think pet rock was the one that yes almost that almost beat I think that's David on pet rock in the yes pocket there but yeah 53 and 40 on it's trying to get a little breather but if I remember right it might have been uh Campbell had a Canadian horse yeah yeah for Macintosh I think yeah I can't remember the names maybe with the C or something but uh yeah this like you were saying I mean obviously he was fast but he but speed was not his strength his strength was get him in a fight and I don't know if I've ever seen him really come up short so yeah like he I think that might have been our horse there clear the six horse might have been clear vision um but here I mean yeah they're going three wide it looks like he's beaten and um here's what I was saying there's no passing lane like at the little brown jog we're here that horse rock is on the inside in the passing lane here yeah over there and this is another one like did he get it like oh yeah yeah I didn't even know Ashley had this queued up but that's the race I was talking about like yeah inside and outside yeah it was crazy I I was in the clubhouse and I'm superstitious so like all my partners we won we won they're all walking the winner circle i i wouldn't leave my table i said i'm not going until they put it up uh yeah but uh what was the tdg the same way when he won the tvg they were they were at him yeah like that yeah i think it was maybe golden receivers at that point he hadn't really done well on a mile track there was and and rightfully so there was kind of a knock on him i think he was maybe one for 17 or something on a on a mile track he loved yonkers he loved the smaller track yeah but uh but he when he won the TVG um that was cool to uh to do it on a big track and um yeah he it's amazing when you look at his overall body of work how many times he hit you know just it it's hard to pick one or two races with him he did it over over a maybe a seven or eight year span which is crazy yeah sweet Lou was a four-year-old that year in there as well um was that yeah he was born in oh nine was that 13 yeah he was a four year old his four year old year for sweet he was tremendous at two at three he made a million dollars but just could kind of couldn't get over the hump at four he battled some some sickness so four year old year he was just not very good but then he came back at five modern legend that was a horse candle yeah he came back at five and uh um we teamed up with Ron Pierce who uh they were they were like peanut butter and jelly I mean they Pierce Pierce uh he's a different cat and sweet Lou uh appreciated it I think um so you know that a lot of people a lot of people don't know that our harness races as two year olds we we protect them we only race two year olds against two year olds and then when you have your three year olds you you only race them against three year olds. Once you are four you're considered aged so all those four year olds that are good four year olds the racing is different when you're against aged horses the fractions are faster it's tougher tighter racing so there's a huge learning curve between a three and a four year old yeah I agree but at the same time I think it it's it's funny I've studied it that year like seven of the top 10 horses his four year old year of the top age horses seven of the top ten were also four year olds so it's hard it's hard to blame it I agree with you sometimes you know it can be it can be a transition year but in his case that crop was um it was just so good and he just wasn't ready for it you know but then when he got back at five I'm watching the winter circle here it's I I all I remember that I think I just hugged Yannick right there and I got all muddy and I said I don't care yeah yeah that's that's uh actually I don't know if you've uh you probably have you've been to weavers house he's got a a basketball court and he's got on on one thing he's got sweet loo and uh pad right and four of the cool on the other one that's pretty funny they help build the house so I figure I gotta pay him a little respect yeah for sure you mentioned two year olds uh kind of a little off subject here with Kentucky having so much money in their program I see two year olds racing more uh do you see the same thing because it seems like two year olds they're starting earlier they're racing more I mean it's all about management of course but I see some of these guys a two-year-old had 20 starts yeah it's tough some of the fair guys will go a little crazy we we used to try and keep them at 10 maybe 11 if they're really show but I I find ourselves you know we'll race them 14 or 15 times and it's a lot but like the Meadowlands has uh I forget the name governor's cup or whatever it is kindergarten yeah the kindergarten then even after that the Valley Victory or yeah yeah yeah those steaks the four year old yeah the final four things and they're late November maybe and but they go for three or four hundred thousand so it's hard to miss those if you when you're sharp so um yeah I mean I think we probably do overrace them and we probably pay the price when we bring them back in the spring of their three year old year. We'll maybe try and give them a little extra time. But we're always trying to juggle it you know that and we do it as a business and we we need to do what what makes sense to make the most money of obviously doing what's best for the horse but trying to find that happy medium.
SPEAKER_02Yeah I just say how Kentucky has it where you have to get so many points to get to the final so now you're racing your horse more than you want to or maybe you're racing three four weeks in a row you know what I mean yeah and and I've been out of it so uh you know don't quote me on that but just what I see you know more than I do.
SPEAKER_05Um yeah Kentucky's Kentucky's uh it's a it's the program right now I mean they they are booming on the thoroughbred side and the and the harness side yeah like I said they have Oak Grove and then they go to Lexton for a while and then they go to Corbin the third track for a couple weeks or three weeks in November. So they all go for really good money. And yeah there in Ohio tremendous um you still Pennsylvania solid Indiana solid New Jersey we're hoping they they get the slot machines passed this winter and that would be that would be huge. And then you've got other small you know like Delaware is a great place to race it's not the easiest place to to get in but for the purse plain ridge up in in uh Massachusetts it's phenomenal um so there's there's a lot of a lot of places back here I wish there was a track out west in in California so I could kind of go back to my roots and I believe they're they're they're opening one back up and it shut down um at this point the purse money is just not it's it's good to do maybe as a hobby but if you expect to be profitable which which I do um it it's hard to to really in Minnesota is another state but they're they're doing pretty well it's a good look at the race so yes but in Virginia you know there's there's a lot of a lot of different states out there that that have a unique little program that have you want to make some money.
SPEAKER_02Have you been to have either of you been to Shenandoah down the Virginia yeah yeah that mark the the stands are filled every single weekend at the top yeah they're they're two dollar betters if that but that's a bunch of people that just enjoy the races and they will cheer at the top of their lungs for every race.
SPEAKER_01Yeah it's great it's great it's great down there yeah I I'm sure I I don't know if you can get Ronnie to get you down there but uh maybe we just have to go like on a on your own weekend.
SPEAKER_05Yeah yeah we'll make it work.
SPEAKER_01Mark we spoke about your biggest victory I always love to balance that out by talking about your toughest defeat. What would that be do you think?
SPEAKER_05I don't know. Um, I'm pretty good at uh just turning the page, you know.
SPEAKER_01Um maybe a great horse that ended up getting hurt.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, uh we had uh it was uh Where Were You Beat, uh two-year-old Phillies. Oh, where were you beating? I think she was two. Is it two or three? She lost a race in Canada. Um, we've had a couple tough races in in uh it's tough to travel. I don't think people understand that, especially like for us when we go up to to race in Canada. To go up one week is hard, but a lot of these things you have an elimination on Saturday, and then the finals are the next Saturday. It's hard on horses to be able to be out of their routine. And do you ship them back? Like we're at the meadows, we're five and a half, five or six hours. You ship them all the way back, and you have to go up again, or do you leave them there in a different in new surroundings?
SPEAKER_01And well, what 2026? What do you have that you're really looking forward to?
SPEAKER_05Um by far. And people say, Would you be happy to do it? Repeat it. I'm like, Yes, I'd be happy to do even close to it. But um, I just saw some two-year-olds train today down in South Florida. Uh it looked pretty nice. Um, it's hard to say. It's early, uh mid-March, and uh the two-year-olds don't really start until June or Easter or July. Um but yeah, I don't know. I mean, it it's uh hope for a good year. We've got a couple of Lua Deepa and uh uh Frantic Hanover horse that Timmy drives, and uh an older horse Fallout that Timmy drives is pretty nice.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_05But uh yeah, well, I mean, we'll have to see. I mean, I I don't have overly high expectations, but um you know we've got enough we've got enough horses that hopefully something surprise us.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_02So to uh I'm not gonna say politics of the sport, but uh this ongoing uh uh we Ashley and I have talked about it. You've seen like I post on Facebook, how do we get like we're doing the same thing that we've always done? I mean, to me, I think we need to get rid of the old guard, bring in some of the new, right? Uh it's it's just like politics when the deep state rules, they they control everything, and I think we see the same in harness racing as we do in politics. So, how do we how do we change things? I mean, I you know, I put something out the other day. We need to bring in creators, influencers, but everybody else is doing it, right? And we've seen the proof with the metal ants. Now, I'm not saying just us, I mean, there's there's a ton out there, right? That that are credible. Why are we not doing something? Why are we not having concerts after big big events, like after the handball or after uh Kentucky, right? You have the UK. Like people would come tailgate, watch the races, now they would get exposed. I mean, what's your thoughts?
SPEAKER_05Yeah, I'm not smart enough to know, you know, like that like what would work. Um, I'm I'm open to try new things. I know that the one I can't think of his name, he's a thoroughbred guy.
SPEAKER_01He owns the thoroughbred, and my daughter, when I mentioned his name, um uh Griffin, uh Griffin, yeah.
SPEAKER_05I actually I've texted with with some of his people and tried to get him down and explain, like in our in our sport, you can actually sit behind the horse, you can actually race in a real race, you know, get your amateur license and be a lot more hands-on. Our horses are durable and I don't want to say safer, but but they're easier to to manage and to thoroughbred.
SPEAKER_01Yes.
SPEAKER_05And uh, but we haven't been able to to make that happen um with him yet. But yeah, I mean any way to get exposure is good. I I don't know if we could change one thing, like people will say. I it's hard to I don't know. I just I wish people could experience the sport the way I have and see like it's been the biggest part of my life. And you know, I mean, you if you want to get involved with the horse, you can get involved with the horse. You want to do it from like I'm basically a general manager of a of a sports team. I love the Steelers. I like the GM of the Steelers. I get to pick the players that I want and and who's gonna coach them. And and if you really, if you get into it and make the right decisions, you can have a lot of fun and you can make a lot of money. You know, I don't know any other to me, it's the greatest sport in the world, and the fact that you can make money with it. Um, I just I wish other people knew enough about it and gave it enough of a chance to try and uh to just to give it a go. It and and I I hope the you know, I don't know if we I don't know why it has there's so many other options I hear, you know, in in society. And um, but I would love to see my my two kids and and they have two friends, they've gotten in, they're starting to buy horses. So, you know, maybe maybe uh some younger, you know, maybe like like shows like this that people would expose if you show it to the people that are in other forms of of race of horses that don't know about harness racing. Like I'm telling you, you can make a lot of money, it's a lot of fun. Anybody can can send me a message on Facebook. I don't have all the answers, but but I think I got most of them. I'll I'll I'm an open book. I I've made my money, I I've I pass on as much knowledge as I can, and I think you know, I think the it it just it adds to the quality of life to me to be able to to watch the people that I've introduced to this game, they pretty much all made money and they love it. And so I I just don't see how if you give yourself a chance to fall in love with it and get involved, I don't see how you how you would regret it.
SPEAKER_02You know, I think uh it's great trick for uh Doc we had Dr. Die on uh earlier and and uh uh said uh when Ashley and I started this, or when Ashley started, and and I was fortunate enough to come on here with her. Uh now I live in Texas. We want to get that crossover from rodeo to uh to harness race. And so a lot of people don't realize that western like rodeo people, western like a lot of oil people here. Um it's a lot of old money, right? So I want to get the six-time world champion Casey Field, he's a bareback rider, he's retired now, Hall of Famer, or will be in the Hall. No, he's in the Hall of Fame. Anyway, I want to get him to like the Metal Lands or something and do the like the celebrity race because uh he has a good following on social media. Now, now all the Western world people, rodeo people will now be exposed to harness racing because they watch Casey Field, right? All we need is a budget to get him out there, so that's what like the USJ, whoever get that crossover and more eyes on the sport because of somebody like him, and he's Aries Golden Boy. Now it's a good way. Aries gonna be they watch his every move. Now Aries gonna be like, why don't we sponsor something? Why don't we do something?
SPEAKER_05So no, yeah, I agree. And you take uh Ashley Nicole, the Joker from basketball, he's the I love basketball probably as much as horse racing. And Joker's, in my opinion, maybe the best player to ever play. Jordan's good, but the Joker was incredible, and he would rather be with his horses than play basketball. So if that doesn't tell you right there that it's a pretty special sport, you know, here's the guy, he's he's the he's great, and he'd rather be with the horses. So, you know, that that I think that speaks that speaks volumes.
SPEAKER_01Um it's unbelievable that you know when we're with him, or you know, him and Timmy have a very, very good relationship, and all he wants to do is talk about horses. He wants to, why did you leave with that horse? You should have the two-hole. And then they argue about equipment and they argue about chewing, and it's so there's so many components. It's kind of like when your kid gets into a little video game and then all of a sudden they're immersed so deep. That's like the equivalent to harness racing. Like you just start off with a little tiny piece and it can get real deep real fast.
SPEAKER_05And you can go as deep, like I said, you can go. I mean, there, you know, some people like the horses and they just want to do that, and they don't even care about the racing part, and that's fine. Let them do that. I'm another guy that doesn't like horses. There's a spot for me. If you want to actually sit behind them and drive them, you can get your amateur license. It probably takes you know six months of learning, and then another six months, and you can actually go on a race that people bet on, and some people would love that, you know. So there's there's so many aspects. You don't if you live near a track, you can do it, or you don't even have to live, you know. I race all over the country, and I'm I'm either in Pittsburgh or Florida. So yeah, there's just so many ways to get involved, and and you know, it just depends on what you prefer.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. Um Mark, I've got some quick fire questions. But first, the first question that I have for you is are you a coffee drinker?
SPEAKER_05No, I'm a Diet Coke. Um, I I've never drank coffee, I've never smoked, I've never, I've never been drunk. For people in the harness racing business, I might be the only guy. Never, never uh, never have, never um yeah.
SPEAKER_01Well, we just want to say we've partnered for this for this podcast. We've partnered with a wonderful company called Cow Puncher Coffee. So if if you can just let all your your pals know that I'm our coffee drinkers, that cowpuncher coffee is just an incredible company. We're really good friends with the ownership. It's we're so proud to have them as a sponsor. Hey, uh producer Brett, well, well, even though Mark's not a coffee drinker, let's roll that commercial just so that he he can tell his friends about it.
SPEAKER_00Thank you to our great sponsor, Cow Hunter Coffee, for the day. It isn't just a cup, it's a kick in the saddle, bold, smooth, and built for early morning and long days. It feels the kind of determination that gets work done. Rich flavor without the bitterness, strong enough for the arena, smooth enough for the porch. Find it at cowhuntercoffee.com.
SPEAKER_05I'll tell you what, guys, send me some cow puncher. I'll try it. That'll be my first ever coffee. I'll report back.
SPEAKER_01Okay, we're doing it. We're doing it. Done. Done. Before I get into the rest of those short quick fire questions, uh Rory, do you have anything else to chat with Mark about before we go on?
SPEAKER_02No, I'm ready to hear these answers he's got.
SPEAKER_01Okay, okay, we're gonna be just real quick. Don't think too much about it. Uh, favorite movie.
SPEAKER_05Fast Times at Ridgemount High, Jess McColey. You guys might be too young for that. I don't know, but you may have to be. I'm older than you. Are you? Okay, yeah, Fast Times. I that was it's old school, just a typical 80s movie, but um Shaw Shank Redemption, too. Those are both good.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, good ones. Uh, what plays on the radio in the car?
SPEAKER_05I'm not in the car much. Probably 80s music, I guess.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. No, I know you're not a drinker, but a favorite cocktail, or do you have anything to settle down?
SPEAKER_05Diakoke or Mountain Dew. That's that's it.
SPEAKER_01Uh are you an early bird or a night owl?
SPEAKER_05Night owl. Not even I'm not I'm not out of bed till 10, 10 30 most days.
SPEAKER_01Who's your biggest cheerleader?
SPEAKER_03I don't know.
SPEAKER_05I don't know. May either my wife or my father-in-law, as crazy as that sounds. Growing up, uh I I I was just Mark Weaver the gambler, and uh didn't really, you know, talk about it too much with him. But now I'm Mark Weaver the owner, and uh and uh he he he travels around a lot to most of the races with me. And I would say, I would say maybe my father-in-law Bruce. He's uh I love having him with me and he he's turned into quite the the harness racing fan.
SPEAKER_01Who's your toughest critic?
SPEAKER_05Probably me or Ronnie. Um we both expect a lot, but uh but nothing I can't handle from him or me. You know, it it's uh nobody's too critical of me, which is good.
SPEAKER_01What what's a pet peeve that you have?
SPEAKER_05Um I hate it when people say I told you so. Like uh but as far as pet peeve, I don't I hate uh selective outrage. People that uh that's a little more of a political thing when people complain about something and the same thing happened a year ago and they didn't say anything. So that's that's a pet peeve. But uh I'll leave it at that.
SPEAKER_01Uh last one, what was your last impulse purchase?
SPEAKER_05Last impulse purchase. I don't spend my whatever my wife wants um is is I didn't even purchase it, she purchased it. Uh but I I don't spend my time. Um my hats are free, my shirts are, you know. I'm yeah, I guess a horse. I guess I guess it would be a hope, you know, but nothing other than that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, just pull the trigger, Ronnie. That's fine. We'll go for it. Yeah, Mark, I want to take just the time to say thank you so much for joining us. It was such a pleasure to have you. I know that you are such a big name in our sport, but a lot of people have never gotten the chance to know you on a personal level. And I've always just been so beyond impressed with your graciousness and you and your wife, your kindness. And so thank you very much.
SPEAKER_05So thank you. I usually don't like doing interviews, but when I heard it was you two who I'm comfortable with, and the uh the zoom is a nice touch too. Uh I'm much more comfortable doing it this way. So thanks for having me. I hope this works. And don't forget to send me that coffee, I'll try it out.
SPEAKER_02Oh, I will. And uh, you really should put Texas on your list, Mark.
SPEAKER_05Put what?
SPEAKER_01For vacations, Texas.
SPEAKER_05My in-laws lived in in Plano for a while. I I spent some time out there. So Texas, great, great, great spot. Yeah, come visit. Cool, we'll do. All right, all right, guys.
SPEAKER_01Thanks. Thank you so much to everybody for joining us, and thanks again, Mark. You guys take care.
SPEAKER_03See you guys.
SPEAKER_01Bye-bye.
SPEAKER_00That was another episode of Under the Lights with Action Roy. Thank you to our sponsors and a bunch of coffee for this episode. Whether you're headed home from the arena or just getting your day started. We're glad you spent some time with us. Around here, it's all about the stories behind the cry, the wins, the losses, and everything in between. We want you to be a part of the story too. So comment and follow right here on this platform. Every story, every file, and every comment out. And we want you to not set up the whatever live that you're writing, sit up, site code, and we want you to write that here, next slide, on this slide.