Justice Delayed Is Justice Denied

Court isn’t abstract when you’re the one waiting years for a hearing. We talk with Jerry E. Smith, a Morgan County attorney running for Superior Court One judge, about why delays hit families and small businesses so hard and what a judge can do to move cases forward without sacrificing fairness. With a law degree and an accounting degree, plus experience in corporate finance, private practice, and public service, Jerry makes the case that tighter calendars and clearer expectations can reduce backlog and stress for everyone involved.

We get practical about court management: setting early case management orders, asking attorneys how much time they truly need to present evidence, and demanding real reasons for continuances instead of rubber-stamping resets. Jerry explains his guiding belief that justice delayed is justice denied, and he connects that principle to the daily reality of civil cases, family disputes, and the emotional toll of uncertainty.

We also dig into judicial philosophy and originalism, including a local example of how laws can be stretched far beyond their original intent through shifting interpretations. Whether you agree or disagree, the conversation makes one thing clear: how a judge reads statutes and constitutional text can shape outcomes in everyday Morgan County cases.

If you care about the Morgan County judge election, Superior Court operations, court delays, or what “fair and efficient” really looks like from the bench, this is a grounded place to start. Subscribe for more local conversations, share this episode with a neighbor, and leave a review with the biggest change you want to see in the court system.

Transcript

Welcome And Guest Introduction

SPEAKER_00 0:00

This is the Good Neighbor Podcast, the place where local businesses and neighbors come together. Here's your host, Tim Serber.

Law And Accounting On The Bench

SPEAKER_02 0:11

Well, thanks, Charlie, for introducing me again and everybody. I appreciate you joining us. I have a great guest with me today, someone I've known for a while. I've got a lot of respect for. And uh he's just an awesome dad. He's he's really uh really making a great life for his son, and he's got some new things going on, and he's running for judge. Uh met him when he ran for the uh the I believe it was a school position, uh school counsel. And uh now we're we're talking about a very important position, Superior Court uh one judge. So uh welcome, Jerry E. Smith. Jerry, how are you doing? I'm doing pretty well, Tim. Thank you very much for inviting me on your podcast. Uh, we're excited to have you. This is something new for me, too. I don't normally do political things, but uh uh I really would like to see you get this position. And if at least and I can help you podcast, hopefully it will give you some help. So we're gonna go into some things, Jerry. Uh, you know, you you hold both a law degree and an accounting degree from IU, and you graduated sixth year class with high distinction, very impressive because I didn't even make it out of college. How does that dual background in law and finance give you an edge at the bench of the Superior Court One?

SPEAKER_01 1:30

Well, Superior Court One uh covers a lot of different areas, civil and criminal, um, business, family law. Um, and so having a solid business background, I think, will uh be a good addition to our local court system. I've worked for large Fortune 100 companies, uh Dow Chemicals Consumer Products Division and uh Thompson, which uh made RCA TVs uh back in the day. I'm not sure they're still making those, but uh I don't think so. Anyway, I've been a uh financial analyst, uh cost accountant, and uh internal auditor. And I've as an internal auditor, I got to see these companies from the top down, and it it just is a pretty broad base of business experience I think uh uh I can bring to the core.

Justice Delayed And Court Backlogs

SPEAKER_02 2:15

Yeah, and I tell you, I was impressed when uh you know you were running for the school board and the questions that you uh answered in in one of the live events. So uh I I find you to be a very interesting, smart, intelligent person. And with your background, I mean, you know, you work as a deputy attorney general, uh child support prosecutor, general practice uh attorney, and a small business owner. Which of these roles do you think shaped your judicial philosophy and most and why?

SPEAKER_01 2:48

Well, they've shaped each shaped them in different ways, but um as a uh private practice attorney uh doing a general practice, uh you get to see uh up close and personal, uh both on your small and large cases, how it affects your clients and the pressure of being in a lawsuit. And I did primarily uh uh the non-criminal stuff. Um I did a little criminal when I was uh interning in in school. And but criminal cases obviously have a huge amount of pressure on people, and the longer they take, the more pressure that is on a person. But the civil cases have an equal amount of pressure, just hangs over your head. And a case that you know is fairly easy and should get wrapped up in three to six months, you know, it can get continued out two or three times or six times, and all of a sudden you're two or three years into it, and your clients having uh physical effects from the emotional and mental toll that's having on them. And I believe justice delayed is justice denied, and uh we need to get these cases decided and get them to a final hearing as soon as possible uh to get that weight off of uh the people in the courtroom so that uh that they don't have that pressure on them uh causing them uh to have you know health issues and just you don't need that stress in your life. People need to be able to move on with things.

SPEAKER_02 4:05

And you've been very outspoken about that. Uh, and you're you're I've heard you say before justice delay is justice denied. What specific changes would you make? You know, I can't say day one, but on, you know, as soon as you get in to move cases through Superior Court one faster?

SPEAKER_01 4:22

Well, I've been in court quite a bit, um not as much recently because I've been doing more administrative law with the attorney general, but uh I would uh number one, at the beginning of a case, you can set up a case management order and get a calendar set up. And so I'll be asking the attorneys some questions that I don't think normally get asked by most judges. I'm gonna be asking them, you know, how long is it gonna take you to get through the evidence? Because they need to have enough time to get through the evidence, but they shouldn't have six times as much time as they need to get through the evidence. Um if they have a request for continuance, they need to have a good reason for it. It shouldn't be, well, uh, you know, something came up, you know, if they're in the hospital, that's one thing. If it's a constitutional issue, that's one thing. But if it's just for a little bit of extra convenience, you know, they're inconveniencing uh their clients and leaving that pressure hanging over them. And I just want to, you know, get it to a final hearing as fast as I can.

SPEAKER_02 5:18

And and you describe yourself as an originalist. You know, believing the law should be read in the context of when it was written. Uh can you give our listeners a real-world example of how that approach would affect a ruling in a typical Morgan County case?

SPEAKER_01 5:35

Well, I think uh both in our constitution and in our laws and most of our historical court cases before the last, I don't know, 10 years or so, uh, you know, you had race, religion, national origin, you know, immutable characteristics, or like in the case of religion, things that you shouldn't really expect somebody to have to change because the government wants you to. And those were the things uh that mattered. Now, uh a recent case uh in Morgan County here uh was our schools having to put in uh special bathrooms for gender neutral. When the law is originally written uh that that was based on, it was male and female. It had nothing to do with uh gender changing, and that shouldn't have been allowed to happen. Now that was pushed by the federal government by executive orders saying how you have to interpret the law, which completely changed it from the original intent and I think stretched it beyond what Congress intended when they passed it, and the president at the time signed it. And so you got to look at the you know, how's it fit in when it was originally made? Because that's what those people were trying to pass laws on. They weren't trying to pass laws on things that they'd have no way of knowing this was going to be happening at this time.

SPEAKER_02 6:49

Yeah, and they and they had no idea of what those things are.

SPEAKER_01 6:52

I mean if they saw what was happening today in these areas, they would have put it in the constitution that it couldn't happen.

Business Disputes And Bankruptcy Lessons

SPEAKER_02 6:59

Yeah. I agree with that, and I and I think that's really important because I think uh, you know, a lot of people have lost faith in the judicial system, and I think it's important to try to bring that back into the original format, which is I think that will give everybody the comfort and the the peace knowing that our judicial system is working like it should. You know, uh you once navigated a complex uh bankruptcy reorganization to shield a excuse me, a small business owner's home and assets from predatorial competitor, I believe. Walk us through how that experience and what it and what it tells us about how you'll handle a civil case on the bench.

SPEAKER_01 7:43

Well, in a bankruptcy situation, especially at the beginning, things need to happen pretty fast. You need to get things put in place to protect your client. The longer it sits out there, usually the worse their situation is. And so um, you know, as a judge, I'll be, you know, for these business cases, if I have a business case come in, uh I'll be doing my best to quickly get the things decided that need to be put in place, the guardrails to keep uh creditors from just destroying uh a person who's trying to protect their home and their business. Um now I've I've had a couple, uh the one I think you're talking about is a larger case I had uh that uh was for a business owner up in Kokomo. Um but I've done a smaller case for local business and uh was able to protect a large portion of his business. And I actually just ran into him yesterday when I was putting signs out, and and uh it was really good to see him again. And uh he was very appreciative of of where he ended up at with uh keeping part of his business and his home intact. And uh and it was really kind of heartwarming to me to you know have a former client that I hadn't seen for a couple years, and the case was probably 10 years ago, um come up and just shake my hand and say, Yeah, put my sign in, I'm gonna tell all my friends. So I thought that was great.

SPEAKER_02 9:00

Well, you know, when you when you save somebody, when you save their their lifestyle or their home or whatever, they're gonna be appreciative to you for I think forever. And and I think that's the type of person you are. You genuinely care about your clients and the people involved, and not not just uh, you know, uh, not just the the people right there, but how it affects everybody. An example of that is uh how you handled a seven million dollar uh uh multi-estate uh with heirs fighting over everything in years, five years or so before a decision was made, but in the end, everybody was real happy uh or happy with the results will say. What does that outcome say about your ability to bring people to resolution?

SPEAKER_01 9:48

Uh uh one thing I've seen is with the states, I've seen families that never argue about anything, they always get along great. Give them something to argue about beyond belief. And it can rip a family apart, which again is something you want to get done quickly because the longer it faster is out there, the harder the feelings are. And um you do the right thing and you hope that the people that want it that are trying to set it up so that they get a better deal than they should in relation to the other errors, at the end will see that you did the right thing and you didn't hurt them uh in an unfair way. You just didn't give them everything they wanted, but you gave them everything that was fair. And I think that's the as a judge um or as an attorney uh helping run an estate, you know, that's what you need to do. You just do the right thing the best you can, and uh most of the time people are reasonable. Every now and then you'll get someone who will never be reasonable, but you just do the right thing.

Respect On People’s Worst Days

SPEAKER_02 10:45

Right. And that kind of goes with the next question, and and I really like this, but you said you believe in treating people at least a little better than they deserve, which that's a memorable phrase to me. What does that look like, particularly when someone is standing in front of you on their worst day?

SPEAKER_01 11:04

Well, uh probably my best example is from personal experience. I was involved with these folks who uh sold me some property and uh leased it back back when I was doing more real estate investing and and not much else. And um after a few months, they decided they didn't want to keep paying me the leases, so they started filing bankruptcies. And this was part of what led me into being a bankruptcy attorney was everything I learned from this. And they uh filed six bankruptcies in two years, which is really illegal, but uh it was able to slide through the system. Now, the last two bankruptcies didn't have much effect, but uh we would show up in court and uh every you know, end of the fourth bankruptcy, which is the one where I basically slammed the door shut on them uh being able to drag things out any farther, um, and successfully anyway. Um, you know, they were come on, Jerry, let's make a deal. I'm like, I was polite to them, I was nice to them, and I treat them like human beings, even when I really didn't feel like it, because of everything they'd put me through personally. And I going back to you mentioned my uh deputy prosecutor and child support, um, I always tried to treat every single person in there from the person who always paid their support on time to the person who it was like pulling teeth to get them to pay anything. I always treated them like human beings, and I got lots of compliments about how they felt like I was the first person they'd run into that just treated them like a person. And even though I was asking them or getting the judge to order them to do hard things, they still respected me and shook my hand afterwards, and I always shook their hand afterwards, even when I had to hit somebody really hard with something to get them to pay, and gave them you know several chances, but you got to keep it moving for the person that needs that support for their kids.

Community Roots In Morgan County

SPEAKER_02 13:03

Yeah. Yeah, and I think that's what uh really, in my opinion, really sets you apart. You have a very strong drive to do what's right and to treat people with respect. And I think that's really important uh nowadays because you don't see a lot of that out there a lot, you know, and I think the internet's ruined a lot of that, but uh, you know, I think that's an important thing. Now you've you've been a Morgan County resident for 18 years, a member of the Bar Association for over 20, and active uh and active in the Elks Lodge, and your church community, you know. So how does that deep community roots factor in into the kind of judge you'll be?

SPEAKER_01 13:45

Well, when I first came to Morgan County, it was more of as an investor. And then because of the timing of the real estate crash, the house that I bought down here and invested in, I ended up moving into while I fixed it up. And uh you start getting to know the people like my next door neighbor. Uh Betty Enbrill was my first uh Martinsville friend. And you know, you meet people that they took me under their wing. Uh Patty Coffin was probably one of my best Martinsville friends before she passed away a few years ago. And and she was like my big sister, and they just made me part of the community and introduced me to all their friends like I was family. And Morgan County and Martinsville specifically is a very special place, and I don't think you get this everywhere. And I love the way I was treated when I came down here, and uh I love watching my son grow up and and uh make friends with all the neighbor kids and be able to play and stuff, and it's safe to not worry too much when when you're you know out at the clubhouse or whatever, letting them run around. You don't have to wonder what's going to happen to your kids. And you know, Borden County is beautiful, we got beautiful rolling hills and lots of nature here, and uh we have a lot of people who are good people that care about the community, and when time when things get rough, you know, people come out and vote and do the right thing uh for the county, and they'll do what they need to do to make sure that our home stays a really great place to live.

SPEAKER_02 15:18

Well, Jerry, our time's about up, but I want to get to one last question. You're a widower, you're raising an eight-year-old son, uh you've been a prosecutor, a private attorney, a CPA, a real estate investor. So, in plain terms, you know, why Morgan County? Why this court and why now?

SPEAKER_01 15:39

Okay, well, why Morgan County? I I think I pretty well uh said that with my last answer. I love Morgan County, I love the people down here, I try to support the businesses down here and and some of the charities. There's you can't support them all, but you can sure try. Uh I love my church, I'm uh I love my neighborhood, and I just want to keep it great. And uh I love the atmosphere my kids growing up in. I don't ever plan on leaving, and I hope that he'll uh stay here when he's an adult as well. And uh as far as the court, you know, the court uh you know comes up every now and then. Uh my opponent was appointed by Governor Holcomb. Everybody should have an opponent, at least their first chance, so that the people have a choice of who they want as judge. And they can you know dig into my background and and and they can dig into my opponent's background, and and hopefully in the end, uh they'll think I've got a better background uh to be a judge. And uh that's pretty much it.

SPEAKER_02 16:41

Well, Terry Jerry, I uh you definitely have our votes. We're not ashamed to mention that. And I really do believe you have a great opportunity. Uh, you know, and the thing is, if you if you don't make it the first time, you can always do it the next time. And you know, I think you have a political career in you. You uh and what I like about you is you're a genuine, wonderful person, and I think you have values and standards that are extremely important to have in a judge position. So uh, you know what? I wish you the best of luck. I'm hoping that you'll go to invite me to your victory party when it happens, and uh I'm sure it will be there at the clubhouse if you have it, and and uh looking forward to seeing you on that and uh seeing your political career grow.

SPEAKER_01 17:31

Well, thank you very much. I really appreciate uh you uh giving me some time on your with your audience, and uh just want to say thank you very much. I appreciate it, Jerry. You have yourself a wonderful evening. Thanks, you too.

Wrap Up And How To Nominate

SPEAKER_00 17:44

Thank you for listening to the Good Neighbor Podcast. Nominate your favorite local businesses to be featured on the show. Go to gnpmorgancounty.com. That's gnpmorgancounty.com or call 317 743 2058.